IRC log for #openmoko on 20080131

00:00.09rasterfrankly- u cant do anything fun without those
00:00.12raster:(
00:00.24rasterwell not if you are raising your bar to iphone+ lvels
00:01.15SpeedEvilSome way to overlay a qvga - for motion - with a VGA screen would again almost do.
00:01.36SpeedEvilBut yes, if you want a full '3d' UI, it gets expensive.
00:01.40CMThe question is if you want the best and fastest consumer product, or a adequate but completely open platform
00:01.42rasteryup0
00:02.04rasterchips exist that can do it
00:02.04SpeedEvilraster: can you give a cost figure - rough - as a percentage of the BOM for the glamo chip?
00:02.18rasterand do it well
00:02.18rasterthe higher end of those basically would - at this point, need closed drivers
00:02.21rasterbut it'd give immense power to do just about anythigh you can imagine
00:02.30rasterSpeedEvil:  no idea.
00:02.31raster:(
00:02.33CM~lart gpu manufacturers for their nda's
00:02.33aptbreaks out the Hoover and sucks up gpu manufacturers for their nda's
00:02.38rasteri actually dont know he cost of our bom
00:02.40rasteror the glamo
00:02.44rasterCM:  i know
00:03.02rasterits all a tough choice
00:03.04rasteri want open
00:03.08rasteras open as possible
00:03.09SpeedEvilraster: Another important point is what's the 'idle' power.
00:03.25SpeedEvilraster: what does it suck when you're looking at a static screen
00:03.26rasterif its firmware and closed - ala he gsm firmware - i consider that out of scope for open
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00:03.35rasteras long as the os-side drivers can/are
00:03.46rasterbut i also want performance
00:03.53rasteri'm just a performance slut :)
00:04.00CMHehe
00:04.07rasterSpeedEvil:  again - don't know :(
00:04.08CMWho would have guessed... ;)
00:04.18rasterCM:  hahahahha
00:04.21rasterbut performance opens up possibilites
00:04.38rasterso as such givine you a very un-powerful device
00:04.47rasterthat happens to have everythig open in many ways is "Closed"
00:04.57rasteras it just doesnt have the processing power to do many things
00:05.02rasteryou are SOL
00:05.03SpeedEvilA GPU that was low power idle, and could take scatter-gather lists to read  from the SD for MP3'd be nice
00:05.42SpeedEvilThough actually I suppose that's a fair bit less important with the later CPU due to the voltage variability
00:05.46rasterbut something really powerful processing-wise opens up a tonne of possibilites, applications etc,, BUT now closes off driver space :(
00:06.10SpeedEvilAnd adds to the sticker shock.
00:06.22rasterSpeedEvil: sure
00:06.38rasterthere is also a price cost
00:06.38SpeedEvilraster: would this be 'you' writing the driver, or does it come canned?
00:06.55rasterunsure
00:07.14rasteri am just thinking out lound right now
00:07.14SpeedEvilIf it'd be 'you' of course there is the other problem - dev time
00:07.33CMI'd say that the audience is what you have to think of. Die hard open souce guys who want the completely open phone, or the .net coding friend who just want a cool looking phone
00:07.48rasterbasically wondering if it is at all worth walking up the "close driver" path - *IF* those drivers are "flawless"
00:07.54SpeedEvilOr even wackily - Your Mom!'
00:07.55rasterCM:  agreed
00:08.14SpeedEvilBut practically.
00:08.31rasterwhat i would do is try get the most performance we can and still have it open
00:08.34SpeedEvilIt's not impossible that the software will lack enough polish for the non technical for a while.
00:08.36rastertheres a very good chance of that
00:08.39rasternot be top end
00:08.43rasterbut middle-to-top
00:08.47rasterand be 100% open
00:08.51CMThat sounds very good
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00:08.55rasteri have some chances of that happening
00:09.08rasterbut i'm wondering if i should explore the very top end that is almost guaranteed to be closed
00:09.11rasterjust to see whats there
00:10.33rasterif i can get the top-end of the performance curve to go open
00:10.35rasterwe all win
00:10.39rasterescept our wallets
00:10.44CMIf you can watch video at vga, I'd say it's good
00:10.45rasterbut hey
00:10.54SpeedEvilI don't see a point in video at VGA
00:11.01rastertrust me
00:11.13SpeedEvilI don't see a point in video at VGA and 2.8"
00:11.14CMSpeedEvil: Well, not at 283dpi I agree..
00:11.28spydonCM: Wont you be kind of tired when you wake up? :P
00:11.29SpeedEvil6" - maybe
00:11.42SpeedEvilBut that's not really a phone anymore
00:11.54rasterthe mid-to-top range i am looking at can play and encode at 720p and 1080i.
00:11.58rasterso vga is a walk in the park
00:12.07CMspydon: I will, and I'll have to hold a lecture on java threads after my 8h of counsulting..
00:12.15SpeedEvilI assume it's got a camera interface?
00:12.28raster2 of them
00:12.35spydonCM: How nice :P
00:14.47SpeedEvilraster: My primary concerns would be: Do I have to freeze my kernel 3 years down the road, when updates stop coming. 2) What is the idle power consumption with the screen refreshing but idle. 3) What does it add to the sticker price. 4) Does it need a fan? :)
00:15.03rasterSpeedEvil:  cool.
00:15.05rasternoted
00:15.07rasterfirst
00:15.24raster1) - i'd never accept anything that forces that on us.
00:15.27rasterthats a veto
00:15.52raster4) is right out - no fans.
00:16.06SpeedEvil2) is a killer for me if it's too high. I like to read ebooks. At half brightness and a slow clock, the current hardware isn't actually too bad for that
00:16.36raster2) is really something we will need to handle internally - but it should be within range of what we have now so given whatever battery/soc we ship we get standard-ish run times
00:18.41SpeedEvilI want one with an e-ink back
00:18.53spydonhow long does it take to do "make openmoko-devel-image"?
00:19.06SpeedEvilspydon: several hours at best
00:19.14SpeedEvilspydon: up to a day with slow
00:19.21mmontourspydon: about 36 hours for me IIRC (less on a faster system)
00:19.32spydonAh okay then il go to bed :P
00:19.37CoreDump~120 minutes on a quadcore
00:19.42rastermmontour: ohave u see it in real life?
00:19.50spydonI have dualcore...
00:20.12rasterSpeedEvil: in fact i have seriously given thought to e-paper for the back of a phone :)
00:20.13SpeedEvilraster: I've seen about 30 hours I think - duron 1300
00:20.18mmontourYes, got my G1G1 last week.
00:20.22spydonokay but I don't think my brain would like not to sleep this night :P
00:20.25rastergreat for doing customised designs/case "mods"
00:20.27rasterits just software
00:20.31spydonGN folks
00:20.50rastermmontour: i dont think i'd wish that screen on anyone for a phone
00:20.56rasterthe colour reproduction is just awful
00:20.56SpeedEvilraster: I was looking for the bare film. They claim to sell it, but they don't.
00:21.03rasterits god in b&w in dayliht
00:21.04rasterthats it
00:21.06rasterthe rest is abysmal
00:21.44SpeedEvilraster: consider a 2cm dia *10cm rod, with the screen wrapped round it. You drag the rod up and down the screen to print.
00:21.54SpeedEvilraster: for a _very_ cheap device.
00:22.02SpeedEvilraster: basically an electrostatic printer.
00:22.16SpeedEvilraster: or similar for label writer and re-writer
00:22.20rasterooooh
00:22.28rasterno epaper
00:22.34rasterevenb cheaper
00:22.50rasteri get you
00:22.55rasterthough unlikely to happen :(
00:23.11mmontourFor "phone" purposes I don't really require high-quality color - it's more important to be able to read the damn thing on a sunny day.
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00:23.45SpeedEvilraster: Annoyingly, for some apps - taking a sony ebook reader and removing the film would actually work - if it was possible. (small labels)
00:23.53SpeedEvilraster: the cost isn't the problem.
00:23.59rastermmontour:  i have seen much better solutions to sunny day lcd reading
00:24.05rasterreplace backlight with sunlight
00:24.06raster:)
00:24.18SpeedEvilThat's not trivial though
00:24.28SpeedEviland basically impossible in diffuse light
00:24.33rasterSpeedEvil: sony mavica - the old floppy-fdisk digi cam
00:24.50rasterit had a clear perspex thing on top of the screen
00:24.53rasterpoint it at the sun
00:24.55rasterpresto
00:25.02rasterscreen is as bright as a floodlight
00:25.07rasterin pure daylight
00:25.24rasteru can see it as easily as any piece of paper in direct sunshine
00:25.27SpeedEvilWhen the sun's out, that works.
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00:25.37rasterproblem is it requires a physically large aperture for the perspex
00:25.43rasterand for you to point it at the sun
00:25.49SpeedEvilAndthere isn't a way round that.
00:25.57rasteryup
00:26.01SpeedEvilWell - there is for the point - you could in principle use a motor
00:26.02rasteru still have normal backlight too
00:26.20rasterit solves the "i cant read this in this sunlight" problem
00:26.26rasterand have to go find some shade to read your screen
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00:26.34SpeedEvilThen there is the 'full speed, damn the torpedos' solution - a 1W LED or two.
00:26.45rasterhahahah
00:27.49SpeedEvilmmontour: yeah
00:28.11SpeedEvilmmontour: however, boost the backlight by an order of magnitude and that problem goes away
00:28.19rastermmm
00:28.27rasterthat could be an option
00:28.32rasterif we can get an lcm with that...
00:28.48SpeedEvilThe _nasty_ problem with LCDs.
00:28.57SpeedEvilBacklighting them that is
00:29.03rasteryeah
00:29.15rasterthats why the whole perspex+sun thing was such a cute solution
00:29.15mwesterColor LED screens
00:29.15SpeedEvil1/2 of the light is eaten by the polariser, and 2/3 by hitting the wrong phosphor
00:29.25SpeedEvilso you get 1/6th of the light out
00:29.27SpeedEvilAt best
00:29.46SpeedEvils/phosphor/dye/
00:32.06SpeedEvilSo you end up with - to get as bright as a white paper _stupid_ powers  - on the order of 70W power into a 3" screen
00:32.32SpeedEvil(assuming good LED backlights)
00:33.08SpeedEvilFortunately, even worst case, 1/10th of that is _perfectly_ adequate
00:33.20SpeedEvilthe eyes dynamic range is really quite good
00:34.39Tronic3xDMD with high power monochromatic LEDs would be nice (not for displays obviously, but for projectors). Almost all light can be used there.
00:37.23TronicThe only problem is that there aren't LEDs powerful enough yet.
00:37.36SpeedEvilSure they are.
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00:37.44SpeedEvil100W LEDs exist
00:37.59SpeedEvil(though comparatively sucky output compared to 1W ones)
00:38.56SpeedEvilYou can make one now - it's just stupidly expensice.
00:39.09SpeedEvilexpensive.
00:39.15TronicFrom which manufacturer?
00:40.49TronicIf you can make a 1 W LED in a certain size, you obviously can make a 16 W one in 4x4 the size, with adequate cooling. Full parallelism. I just haven't found such products.
00:41.11SpeedEvilhttp://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5766
00:41.18SpeedEvilthere are 100W out there
00:41.28SpeedEvilnot quite obviously
00:41.38SpeedEvilbonding and defect problems eat you
00:41.45TronicHmm, not even that expensive.
00:41.52TronicDo you know if those come in R/G/B colors too?
00:42.34SpeedEvilNote however that 17 of the best white 1W LEDs will emit as much light as that 50W one
00:43.08SpeedEvilAnnoyingly the best white LEDs are about twice as efficient as mono ones
00:43.39Tronic1700 lm is roughly equal to 150 W bulb.
00:43.41SpeedEvil(except deep blue)
00:44.18SpeedEvilYeah - 1700/50 = 34lm/W
00:44.29SpeedEvilThe best white LEDs get 100lm/W
00:45.00SpeedEvilAbout a third of the electricity in goes out as light
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00:53.28CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3988 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-core.patch: (log message trimmed)
00:53.28CIA-15openmoko: Add on/off GSM download gpio. If we don't upgrade gsm firmware, we need to
00:53.28CIA-15openmoko: set GPIO output high. It will affect the sound quality, when we set GPIO low.
00:53.28CIA-15openmoko: From: Willie <willie_chen@openmoko.com>
00:53.28CIA-15openmoko: gta02-core.patch:
00:53.31CIA-15openmoko: - arch/arm/plat-s3c24xx/neo1973_pm_gsm.c (gsm_read, gsm_write): added
00:53.33CIA-15openmoko:  GTA02-specific handling of the GSM download signal
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02:50.51wurp2Does anyone in here happen to have their gsmhandset.state that they could pastebin to me?
02:51.20wurp2I overwrote mine and was hoping I could get a replacement without figuring out how to mount jffs or re-image
02:52.28wurp2Never mind, found one in my mokomakefile directory
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07:04.24CIA-15openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3989 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/libgsmd/misc.h src/util/shell.c): gsmd: network registration query status (Paulius Zaleckas)
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07:37.42CVirusoelewapperke: sorry about yesterday ... the internet went down again
07:38.00cdbot2* * OM Bug 1208 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com
07:38.01cdbot2* * Run Packagekitd failed
07:38.02cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1208
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08:00.48PsiDo we know how much current GTA02 can supply out its powered usb port yet?
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08:09.11Hopscotchgood morning
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08:17.37*** topic/#openmoko is http://openmoko.org | Buy Neo1973 at http://direct.openmoko.com | New version is the FreeRunner (with WiFi...) maybe due March. Official status: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates
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09:05.36CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3990 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-core.patch: (log message trimmed)
09:05.36CIA-15openmoko: From: Willie <willie_chen@openmoko.com>
09:05.36CIA-15openmoko: define_gta02A5.patch
09:05.36CIA-15openmoko: Add GTAv5 system revision.
09:05.36CIA-15openmoko: gta02-core.patch:
09:05.37CIA-15openmoko: - arch/arm/mach-s3c2440/mach-gta02.c (mangle_pmu_pdata_by_system_rev,
09:05.39CIA-15openmoko:  gta02_glamo_mmc_set_power), arch/arm/plat-s3c24xx/neo1973_pm_gsm.c
09:10.54*** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
09:12.34*** join/#openmoko nurgle_ (n=nurgle@pirates.ivistar.de)
09:13.16*** join/#openmoko MecSympaTiK (n=MecSympa@77.203.96.87)
09:13.19MecSympaTiKhttp://www.math-linux.com site dedicated to mathematics and Linux
09:14.04GottoxI hate these spams...
09:14.27Gottoxreally... Stop it, nobody cares.
09:14.55FatalMecSympaTiK: http://www.jobsafe.se site dedicated for people spamming (NSFW)
09:15.52CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3991 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/atheros_2_0_hcd.patch: (log message trimmed)
09:15.52CIA-15openmoko: [PATCH 1/3] ar6k: Asynchronous SDIO IRQ handling
09:15.52CIA-15openmoko: We now notify the SDIO stack asynchronously when we receive an SDIO
09:15.52CIA-15openmoko: interrupt.
09:15.52CIA-15openmoko: By doing so we make sure the notification is atomic, and that allows
09:15.54CIA-15openmoko: us to get rid of the ugly dsta double checking.
09:15.58CIA-15openmoko: Signed-off-by: Samuel Ortiz <sameo@openedhand.com>
09:17.08zedstareeeeuuuww i just clicked that link lol
09:17.37Fatalzedstar: I kind of hoped noone except spammers would :)
09:18.18GottoxFatal: You're a more efficient spammer than MecSympaTiK :)
09:18.29zedstarlol....for that u should now click 2girls1cup.com
09:18.37*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)
09:18.55Fatalzedstar: or 2girls100eels.com (don't)
09:19.00*** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim)
09:19.06zedstarlol
09:20.21*** join/#openmoko lousygarua (n=lousygar@CBL217-132-209-54.bb.netvision.net.il)
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09:21.10zedstarwhoops my hand slipped and i clicked the link lol
09:21.20CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3992 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/atheros_2_0_function.patch:
09:21.20CIA-15openmoko: Subject: [PATCH 2/3] ar6k: WPA support
09:21.20CIA-15openmoko: This patch enables WPA support for the ar6k driver.
09:21.20CIA-15openmoko: For WPA to work properly, we need a patched WPA supplicant, and I'll
09:21.20CIA-15openmoko: send that later on.
09:21.21CIA-15openmoko: Signed-off-by: Samuel Ortiz <sameo@openedhand.com>
09:21.22zedstarnot had breakfast yet
09:21.55GottoxI'm not hungry anymore... :/
09:22.43CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3993 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/atheros_2_0_function.patch: (log message trimmed)
09:22.43CIA-15openmoko: Subject: [PATCH 3/3] ar6k: Scan request synchronization
09:22.43CIA-15openmoko: We now wait for the scan done event before returning from the wireless
09:22.43CIA-15openmoko: extension scan call.
09:22.43CIA-15openmoko: This way we make sure that userspace doesn't ask for scan results before
09:22.47CIA-15openmoko: we actually have them.
09:22.49CIA-15openmoko: Signed-off-by: Samuel Ortiz <sameo@openedhand.com>
09:23.29ScaredyCatwhat do you mean - wifi without wpa is just silly
09:24.19SpeedEvilWell - not really if you simply use vpn
09:25.20ScaredyCat.. anyone that's not useing at least wpa on their ap is asking for problems
09:25.31mjrpfft, sensitive data is application level encrypted anyways
09:25.48*** join/#openmoko zilux (n=zilux@212.155.183.253)
09:25.59SpeedEvilhttp://www.google.com/views?q=openmoko+view%3Amap&vwwh=&btnGm=Search&esrch=RefinementBarTopViewTabs
09:26.13lousygaruahello, anyone from israel? i don't really understand what cellphone network providers use for their networks and how does it all go with openmoko
09:26.18ScaredyCatright... so your entire network would be encrypted mjr...
09:26.56oelewapperkelousygarua: according to my searc
09:27.14oelewapperkelousygarua: according to my search Israel provides gsm at bands 900/1800, so openmoko should work without issue
09:28.03SpeedEvillousygarua: openmoko of course works (in principle) with any network. The first hardware - GTA01 - will also work without problems
09:28.09lousygaruathanks oelewapperke. basically, i just get an openmoko and then i need my provider to activate an account for it?
09:28.24oelewapperkeIsrael also supports the amerikan standard CDMA, which openmoko doesn't support
09:29.31lousygaruawell i'm asking as a future moko developer that just don't understand cellphone networks
09:29.37SpeedEvillousygarua: the GTA01 hardware is as any other GSM phone.
09:29.37*** join/#openmoko Zenton (n=Vicente@212.166.192.129)
09:30.01lousygaruaSpeedEvil, thanks. I guess you both answered my question
09:30.03SpeedEvillousygarua: if you have a SIM card, it should just work generally.
09:30.32lousygaruaSpeedEvil: yeah but my provider doesn't let its users play around with SIM cards.... I need to contact them or just switch.
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09:32.01SpeedEvillousygarua: it's probable in that case that you're not GSM
09:32.31SpeedEvillousygarua: so will need to switch
09:32.53SpeedEvillousygarua: there are GSM phones without exchangable SIM cards, but they are rare.
09:33.38lousygaruaSpeedEvil, i'm switching in about a year, i hate my provider either way.
09:35.05*** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236)
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09:40.40CIA-15openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3994 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ (Makefile.am machine_telit.c vendor_telit.c): gsmd: Patch for Telit GM862 GSM modem (Florian Boor)
09:44.05*** part/#openmoko nodge (n=deba0x80@62.206.49.86)
09:44.14*** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2C1A1.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:44.29TRIsoftmornin
09:46.26*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)
09:46.34spydonHow do I start OM2007.2 from the MokoMakefile? :P
09:48.34*** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@tangency.co.uk)
09:50.53CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3995 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-acc.patch: (log message trimmed)
09:50.53CIA-15openmoko: bugfix-motion-sensors-suspend.patch
09:50.53CIA-15openmoko: Current motion sensor driver in svn chokes resume, this fixes it.
09:50.53CIA-15openmoko: Signed-off-by: Andy Green <andy@openmoko.com>
09:50.53CIA-15openmoko: gta02-acc.patch:
09:50.55CIA-15openmoko: - drivers/input/misc/lis302dl.c (lis302dl_suspend, lis302dl_resume): disable
09:50.59CIA-15openmoko:  the SPI interrupt while in suspend
09:52.33*** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz)
09:55.12*** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-249-096.pools.arcor-ip.net)
09:56.59*** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@86.39.152.5)
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10:01.00cdbot2* * OM Bug 1209 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com
10:01.01cdbot2* * cannot dial emegency call 112 from dialer
10:01.02cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1209
10:01.36CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3996 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-core.patch:
10:01.37CIA-15openmoko: Patch contained include/asm/arch-s3c2410/gta02.h twice, causing havoc.
10:01.37CIA-15openmoko: Funny. Is quilt acting up ?
10:02.55spydonHow do I start openmoko when I have installed the mokomakefile? :P
10:03.27zash_in qemu?
10:03.43*** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.96.8.58)
10:05.55spydonyes
10:06.58spydonzash_, yes* :P
10:08.02zash_make qemu
10:08.15zash_http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile
10:08.52*** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi)
10:09.41spydonah thx
10:10.49*** join/#openmoko kamathln (n=lax@122.167.21.190)
10:11.31*** part/#openmoko kamathln (n=lax@122.167.21.190)
10:16.55*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@78-86-213-209.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
10:19.09CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3997 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/pcf50633.patch: (log message trimmed)
10:19.09CIA-15openmoko: fix-compile-warnings.patch
10:19.09CIA-15openmoko: Couple of our files generate compile warnings - fix 'em.
10:19.09CIA-15openmoko: Signed-off-by: Andy Green <andy@openmoko.com>
10:19.09CIA-15openmoko: ---
10:19.11CIA-15openmoko:  drivers/i2c/chips/pcf50633.c | 4 ++--
10:19.13CIA-15openmoko: patches/pcf50633.patch:
10:23.08*** join/#openmoko TheAndichrist (n=andy@CPE-24-160-241-218.wi.res.rr.com)
10:26.31*** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it)
10:26.47bedboihi guys
10:27.01bedboiis there any relevant news about power management?
10:30.46*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@78-86-213-209.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
10:32.29*** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi)
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10:37.15duffydhi, does anyone know if there's any way to put back the old keyboard :(
10:37.23duffydI really don't like the multi-tap variant
10:37.40duffydscreen real estate has been severely hampered
10:40.30XorArwhitby: does MokoMakefile pick up new image names on its own, or do you have to add some stuff?
10:41.20rwhitbyI need to add a target for each image
10:42.20rwhitbyXorA: what's the new image?  and has the uboot-openmoko to u-boot-openmoko change propagated everywhere now?
10:42.53XorArwhitby: openmoko-qtopia-image is now in OM mtn
10:43.17CIA-15openmoko: 03werner * r3998 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/s3c2410-qt2410-buttons.patch: (log message trimmed)
10:43.17CIA-15openmoko: fix-compile-warnings.patch (2/2)
10:43.17CIA-15openmoko: Couple of our files generate compile warnings - fix 'em.
10:43.17CIA-15openmoko: Also the fail paths on gta01kbd_probe() were broken, fixed.
10:43.17CIA-15openmoko: Signed-off-by: Andy Green <andy@openmoko.com>
10:43.19CIA-15openmoko: ---
10:43.23CIA-15openmoko:  drivers/input/keyboard/qt2410kbd.c | 37 +++++++++++++++++++++++++-----------
10:44.31XorArwhitby: I think so, OM mtn looks like it is all u-boot
10:48.50rwhitbyok, I'll remove that work-around at the same time as I add the qtopia targets.
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10:54.55*** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com)
10:56.13*** join/#openmoko DanHerg (n=herghili@89.123.183.152)
10:57.00DanHergCool Euro Jobs site ===> new-gen employment eu
10:59.00XorArwhitby: there will probably be native stuff you need like libxtst-dev to complete the build :-(
11:00.39*** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053153252.adsl.alicedsl.de)
11:05.02*** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21)
11:10.27*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.211)
11:12.23*** join/#openmoko MMN-o (n=mmn@74-153.powerdsl.t3.se)
11:12.30*** join/#openmoko superstition (n=supersti@pD9554C07.dip.t-dialin.net)
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11:18.18CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r3999 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c):
11:18.18CIA-15openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (set_window_title):
11:18.18CIA-15openmoko: Don't set an empty operator name
11:19.14CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r4000 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c):
11:19.14CIA-15openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (on_network_registered):
11:19.14CIA-15openmoko: Register to network on unregister
11:24.27*** join/#openmoko vininim_ (n=vininim@BHE201062160012.res-com.wayinternet.com.br)
11:24.35vininim_seattle
11:24.37vininim_in 2064 lol
11:27.41CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r4001 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c):
11:27.41CIA-15openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (retry_register),
11:27.41CIA-15openmoko: (on_network_registered), (moko_network_init):
11:27.41CIA-15openmoko: Add a 60-second time-out for network registration before retrying
11:31.00*** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@80.169.137.165)
11:32.51CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r4002 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c):
11:32.51CIA-15openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (stop_retrying_registration),
11:32.51CIA-15openmoko: (on_network_registered), (on_pin_requested):
11:32.51CIA-15openmoko: Stop the network registration retrying when a pin request is received
11:37.48*** join/#openmoko dotmef (n=mef@210-84-14-40.dyn.iinet.net.au)
11:39.15*** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)
12:11.35*** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl)
12:14.30*** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@tobias.residence.ens-lyon.fr)
12:15.54rwhitbyXorA: yep, needed to install libxtst-dev
12:25.32*** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2584.bb.online.no)
12:29.16ScaredyCatXorA: in oe dev ?
12:29.33XorAScaredyCat: no
12:29.41ScaredyCatahh ok
12:30.10ScaredyCatso I can kkep mine for now then
12:30.41XorAScaredyCat: its not good enough for OE.dev yet
12:30.50ScaredyCat!!!
12:30.54ScaredyCatwtf
12:31.43*** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2584.bb.online.no)
12:32.16XorAScaredyCat: whats up?
12:32.34ScaredyCatwell, I'd have thought you'd have it in a snip...
12:32.41ScaredyCatif I managed to build one...
12:33.10XorAScaredyCat: well its all the reliance on host stuff
12:33.25XorAScaredyCat: of course if you have a way around that, let me know :-)
12:34.14ScaredyCatI can;t remember if I had to nstall anyhtng extra .. was that long ago :/
12:34.30XorAScaredyCat: also, zecke has plans for qtopia-core in OE.dev that I wont trample on
12:35.34ScaredyCatthat seems to be taking a long time though
12:38.13ScaredyCat13:37 - food time
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13:01.00*** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm2 (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be)
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13:13.22wibbitHeyah, any one know when the next community update is due? I checked the wiki, and the last one was on the 10th of jan
13:14.54SpeedEvilThey could tell you, but then they'd have to kill you.
13:15.07SpeedEvil(this is the reason for some developers stopping contributing)
13:16.56ScaredyCathttp://www.nokia.com/betalabs/mws-extensions
13:18.40blckdoveanyone working actively on moko bluetooth? I mean registration,PIN/device management etc?
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13:36.21emdeteblckdove: for pan, yes, why?
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13:41.42blckdovepan?
13:41.42*** join/#openmoko cosmin (n=cosmin@nat-240.ro.66.com)
13:41.53blckdoveno I was just wondering
13:42.01blckdovewhere to contribute
13:43.52blckdoveI think there should be damon that handles seaches, pairing, storing devices, reconnections, filetransfers etc... along side with small gui app that lists devices, enters pins etc
13:44.27blckdoveand I could be intrested to do something like that, but if someone is already working on it...
13:46.22blckdovewiki mentions that there are plans for bt things in neo... but does not specify any more than that
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13:51.38Yosusin12http://bitxarraco.myminicity.es/
13:51.42Yosusin12http://bitxarraco.myminicity.es/
13:51.44Yosusin12http://bitxarraco.myminicity.es/
13:51.48Yosusin12http://bitxarraco.myminicity.es/
13:51.52*** part/#openmoko Yosusin (n=ircap8@79.146.238.72)
13:58.32XorAthis'll be interesting, the piratebay in court
13:58.50MononokeXorA: hmm?
14:00.42XorAMononoke: they just been charged
14:02.56Mononokelink to news? or its not in english ?
14:03.08Mononokethey have been charged so many times..
14:03.24Ganneffnot that it has much todo with this channels topic. :)
14:04.33Mononokelet's say that it's about p2p and openmoko uses p2p build system so somehow it is related ... >.>
14:07.10*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@88.128.50.116)
14:07.51XorAMononoke: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7219802.stm
14:08.45XorAits gotta be a better topic than the spam bots that are invading these days :-)
14:08.59*** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@59.92.4.178)
14:09.16Mononokehttp://thepiratebay.org/blog/100 << they already made some respond to it heh
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14:33.03CViruswhat's the difference between GTA02V5 and GTA02A5 ?
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14:44.33ScaredyCat21
14:45.41XorACVirus: same device, different spelling
14:46.09CVirusI see
14:48.40mjrnot knowing better, I'd probably assume A would be "American" thus 850
14:49.05mjrbut I remind you that I really don't know ;]
14:49.58hrwno
14:50.14hrwgta01 has version A and B
14:50.22hrwgta02 has only version A
14:50.29hrwboth had revisions
14:50.51hrwso thats why GTA02A5 -> GTA02 version A 5th revision
14:51.10mjrAck
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15:00.35*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@78-86-213-209.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
15:04.09ziluxblckdove: it would be great if you could post your question about "moko bluetooth" to the Community list.
15:04.20*** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@66.205.179.175)
15:04.24ziluxI am also interested by the answers.
15:04.45Kerogah. wish abiword would show the GSM docs better. Looked at them on Windows today, and just two little images told me what I needed.
15:05.31*** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-139-253.pools.arcor-ip.net)
15:06.16Keroround-trip libgsmd -> gsmd -> emulated firmware -> gsmd -> libgsmd done. Testing framework for (lib)gsmd nearing 0.9 release :)
15:06.31Keronow back to work.
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15:39.02SpeedEvilJust noticed someone doing blogging on his new baby.
15:39.09SpeedEvilFrom the delivery room.
15:39.27zash_^^
15:40.06zash_dont they usualy have "NO CELLPHONES HERE OR WE WILL KILL YOU" at hospitals?
15:43.48mbufzash_, former, no; latter, yes
15:44.16maroiSpeedEvil, where? in the debian live channel someone posted about his "new debian live girl" =)
15:44.30maroi-girl +boy
15:45.46SpeedEvilhttp://crouse-house.com/
15:46.09SpeedEvil'Um - wow. I just saw the head for an instant. We haven't started to push yet, but apparently the baby is very low.'
15:46.39*** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@68.27.230.129)
15:47.01maroiok.. colorado.. the guy in the debian channel is from italy ;)
15:48.02wurp2"we" haven't started to push
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15:48.19wurp2I think the mother has just a bit more stake in that than dad ;-)
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15:53.38PP|SpydonLo ppl
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16:03.25wurp2If you're using one of the newer builds and you don't like the multitap keyboard, I created a page to help you switch
16:03.29wurp2http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards
16:03.30*** part/#openmoko pepperjack (n=temp@h254.254.90.75.ip.alltel.net)
16:03.34wurp2It is very hacky
16:03.53wurp2Can someone educate me how to see the title when my console is too narrow?
16:04.12SpeedEviltype /topic?
16:04.23ScaredyCator /cycle
16:04.48wurp2SpeedEvil, ScaredyCat: thanks
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16:25.33wurp2Anyone know if it's possible to access the phone #s on your SIM card through the neo?
16:25.41wurp2command line tool is fine
16:25.46*** join/#openmoko andrewe (n=ae@ottawa-hs-64-26-147-153.d-ip.magma.ca)
16:25.49andrewewho
16:27.08kdean06wurp2, I don't know if it's possible through OpenMoko but I know qtopia pulled them in.
16:27.18kdean06So in theory it's possible. :)
16:27.22kdean06If that's any help.
16:27.48wurp2kdean06: Cool, thx
16:27.59wurp2Did you see my software keyboard page?
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16:30.32kdean06I did
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16:52.09Hyro903is there some one who owns a ds?
16:55.11kdean06ds?
16:55.42SpeedEvilI guess nintendo DS
16:56.27*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M8861.m.pppool.de)
16:58.26zedstaris it wrong to admit to owning one in your 30's?
16:58.51MekI think it is worse to not admit being in your 30's at all...
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17:00.27SpeedEvilI'm considering buying some screends for it.
17:00.33SpeedEvilBut simply to use as LCDs
17:00.38SpeedEvilthey are cheep
17:00.54zedstarjust admit u want to play nintendogs speedevil ;)
17:01.34*** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@blfd-4db50e2b.pool.einsundeins.de)
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17:03.10SpeedEvilDon't actually have a DS :)
17:03.23kdean06My wife does. :)
17:03.42kdean06I've been hoping someone would port a clone of Brain Age 2's Sudoku to OM. :)
17:04.01Stephmwthat shouldn't be too hard to code up
17:04.19kdean06Stephmw, The handwriting recognition wouldn't be an issue?
17:04.41SpeedEvilnumbers only isn't too bad
17:05.00kdean06Oh come now... Hackers do sudoku in Hex. :)
17:05.07*** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz)
17:06.43Meka 16x16 sudoku might be a bit large for the small screen :P
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17:07.01SpeedEvil3*3
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17:08.43Stephmwkdean06: that certainly would be an interesting modification to sudoku...
17:08.53Stephmwkdean06: 4x4x16
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17:13.02kdean06Just to get my terminology correct, the "main" application of OpenMoko is openmoko-today2, right? That has the clock on it?
17:13.34*** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.157)
17:13.37Sup3rkiddomore like the "home"
17:13.47*** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com)
17:14.15kdean06Home isn't an option in the bugzilla.
17:14.36Sup3rkiddooh...ok
17:15.32*** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host236-214-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
17:16.01kdean06Though I suppose technically this is a dialer bug. :S
17:16.37Sup3rkiddokdean06, hmm...whats the  critter about
17:16.59kdean06It's trivial, but missed calls are reported twice.
17:17.14Sup3rkiddokdean06, yeah its a dialer bug then
17:17.40cjb_iehttp://www.electronista.com/articles/08/01/30/garmin.nuviphone/
17:19.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1210 has been created by kevin(AT)foreverdean.info
17:19.02cdbot2* * Missed calls appear twice
17:19.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1210
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17:29.07wurp2I have had (mild) stability problems with the 29th release
17:29.21kdean06Don't use the 30th. :)
17:29.30kdean06I'm reviewing it now... Bad news.
17:29.31wurp2Heh, thanks for the warning
17:29.41kdean06I'm not sure about 31 yet. I plan on getting to it.
17:29.49wurp2You are the man :-)
17:30.18kdean06wurp2, Question... SMS sending, the word "UNknown" is the recipient, correct? The box below is subject and below that is text?
17:30.24kdean06Or is the second box the recipient?
17:30.35wurp2Yeah
17:30.41wurp2The first box is recipient
17:30.45kdean06Hrm...
17:30.46kdean06Okay.
17:30.56wurp2I don't think i saw the text box last time I sent an sms
17:30.56kdean06What is the word "Unknown" for then?
17:31.01wurp2I just put it all in the subject
17:31.08wurp2I think maybe it's to ID the person based on the phone #
17:31.13kdean06Okay.
17:31.16wurp2For when they're in your contacts list
17:31.22wurp2But I'm just pulling that out of my ass
17:31.37kdean06Yeah... Adding contacts crashes, and it appears that I can't send to anyone not on my contacts list. :(
17:31.46wurp2weird
17:31.48kdean06WHich means sending SMS is totally broken. :P
17:31.56wurp2I sent one yesterday by typing in the #
17:32.00wurp2Oh, on the 30th you mean
17:32.02kdean06Yes.
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17:39.40jmichelAnyone knows how to rebuild the kernel only? I made some changes to the kernel config and I'd like to build it again with "make build-package-linux-openmoko" but the result is "Attempted 369 tasks of which 369 didn't need to be rerun"
17:39.56*** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@cpe-213-157-235-31.dynamic.amis.net)
17:40.08jmichelMy changes are not taken into consideration
17:40.33jmichelcan I force the makefile to rebuid the kernel ?
17:41.21Mekmake rebuild-package-linux-openmoko?
17:41.36jmichelso simple :)
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17:56.06jmichelMek: the problem is that my new kernel config is overwritten when I do make rebuild-package-linux-openmoko
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18:20.53PBeckhi
18:21.24CVirushey
18:22.02PBeckhi CVirus
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18:43.16wurp2Has anyone used navit with a recent release of openmoko?
18:45.26wurp2That sounds like a resounding no...
18:46.15CMHaven't tried
18:47.17*** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu)
18:48.07wurp2I also note that settingsgui isn't in the default list of repositories any more
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19:12.58wurp2How are people carrying their neo around?  The clip on that little bag finally broke, and the lanyard, well, even I am not nerdy enough to walk around with my phone hanging around my neck on a lanyard
19:13.01*** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244)
19:13.44wurp2I have a cell holster that I had lying around, but it doesn't really fit properly
19:14.07CMTime for some baggier pants? :)
19:14.15kdean06I put it in my pocket.
19:14.57wurp2Yeah, when I wear cargo pants I do too, except I'm still worried about it bumping against stuff
19:15.14kdean06Oh, I solve that by not moving much. :)
19:15.18wurp2and digging it out of your pocket when it rings is a real pain if your pants aren't pretty baggy
19:15.21wurp2heh
19:15.28CMkdean06: hehe
19:15.38wurp2I am a little hyper periodically
19:15.50kdean06wurp2, You assumed by "pocket" I mean pants pocket. I didn't. I put it in my jacket pocket when I'm moving.
19:15.58wurp2I think it's some sort of early midlife crisis ;-)
19:16.18wurp2I live in Texas; I rarely wear a jacket
19:16.21cjb_iei bought a bright yellow monster truck for my midlife crisis :)
19:16.28wurp2wow
19:16.35wurp2I've been eyeing the Tesla :-)
19:16.37kdean06cjb_ie, I'm still planning on my mid-life crisis. :)
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19:23.20ScaredyCati has a webserver!
19:23.24ScaredyCat"Welcome to your Neo 1973, http server running in process number 2445 and you are currently on T-Mobile NL"
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19:23.37kdean06O_o
19:23.37copti1...
19:23.39bazecan anyone tell me what's the display of the neo is like? it doesn't have a glass cover, does it?
19:23.43kdean06HTTP from the Neo?
19:23.47ScaredyCatya
19:24.15wurp2You are exposing it over gprs and hitting from a PC?
19:24.26wurp2baze: It doesn't have a glass cover
19:24.27kdean06ScaredyCat, I contemplated doing that, actually, and passing of GPS co-ords so that my wife could log on, click a link and see that I'm halfway to her work rather than calling me while I'm driving. :)
19:24.32ScaredyCatnot atm, just via usb networking
19:24.40bazewurp2: is it a solid display though?
19:24.47wurp2baze: Sure
19:24.48ScaredyCatbaze: yes
19:24.54bazeor does it get pushed in when you press on it?
19:25.00kdean06Solid, yes. Rigid, no.
19:25.00wurp2baze: I don't like that it's inset from the rest of the phone
19:25.08wurp2it is a tiny bit soft
19:25.12wurp2For the touch screen
19:25.12kdean06It's slightly squishy. :)
19:25.16ScaredyCatkdean06: it's just an experiment really, but I was thinking it could be useful... maybe
19:25.29bazebut it doesn't feel like it gets damage easily?
19:25.31kdean06WHich server?
19:25.39wurp2baze: Not at all
19:25.43kdean06No, the entire device feels pretty sturdy to me.
19:26.07ScaredyCat'which server'  for me?
19:26.10kdean06Yes. :)
19:26.17ScaredyCatlibhttpd
19:26.21kdean06Oh.
19:26.26kdean06Even lighter. :)
19:26.29ScaredyCatyes
19:26.41bazei'm still not 100% sure if i'm going to buy the freerunner... i wonder if browsing without umts is fast enough, since i'd be using it a lot to browse with such a good display...
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19:27.08kdean06umts?
19:27.08wurp2Well, browsing over wifi will be very fast
19:27.15kdean06And Freerunner will have wifi.
19:27.21kdean06wurp2 beat me to it. :)
19:27.25wurp2I haven't played with the gprs browsing - haven't gotten gprs going on my '01 yet
19:27.37bazewurp2: yes, but when you are on a train for example, you won't necessarily have wifi access ;)
19:28.10kdean06baze, That's actually why I jumped in and bought the GTA01. :) Since i'm NEVER, and I repeat NEVER in a usable wifi hotspot. :)
19:28.46bazekdean06: and you're satisfied with the speed?
19:28.51kdean06The Neo is a poor mobile browsing platform, IMO, but then I don't beleive that there's a good one.
19:28.59kdean06No, I've not use GPRS either. :)
19:29.04kdean06USB networking FTW
19:29.06bazehmkay :)
19:29.42wurp2Yeah, the screen is too small.  Even if the page renders well in 640x480, it still looks quite small
19:29.57bazehopefully it will be good for simple routing tasks if you want to find an adress from you current location
19:29.59thomasgsmall rocks
19:30.00ScaredyCatBT networking for the range :)
19:30.04wurp2But as kdean06 says, I don't think you're going to find anything better until someone puts out an ePaper foldable/rollable display
19:30.23wurp2baze: You can do that w/o networking
19:30.27bazetrue
19:30.40wurp2I have about a 40 mile radius of maps loaded on my neo now
19:30.56bazeit's just another thing i'd be happy to use the neo for
19:30.59wurp2ScaredyCat: Yeah, I really need to get bt networking completely working
19:31.04kdean06wurp2, My daily commute would extend beyond that. :)
19:31.05wurp2It covers my whole house
19:31.15bazeand maybe even as a car navigation system, that'd be great
19:31.17wurp2kdean06: More than 80 miles ?!?
19:31.24wurp2baze: I use it as such already
19:31.39wurp2when I can get navit to work - it hasn't worked for me with recent releases :-(
19:31.43kdean06Well... 40 mile radius FROM my house, yes. My work would be outside of that. :)
19:31.45bazenice
19:32.17kdean06I suppose I could find the center point in that lovely triange and use that...
19:32.18haakeyarbaze: I used a lot of GPRS on my old phone. It worked out with acceptable speed when I used Opera Mini with images turned off. Don't know if Opera Mini will run on OM, though, but I think I heard that it would get J2ME.
19:32.31wurp2Yeah, that's why I have a 40 mile radius from the middle of the metroplex
19:32.32*** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com)
19:32.39haakeyarOpera Mini compresses stuff on the server before sending to the phone.
19:32.45wurp2My drive is 34 miles, approx
19:32.51bazeand then there is of course.. or well, there isn't... the camera point... i never really cared that much for a phone cam, but ever since i got my k800i, i kinda got used to actually use it sometimes..
19:33.13kdean06wurp2, For me the pre-load maps concept is fatally flawed... I never go anywhere without a plan unless I'm lost. :)
19:33.18bazebut well... can't have everything
19:33.36wurp2kdean06: I don't really either, but I am navigationally challenged
19:33.42kdean06Oh.
19:33.44wurp2And I think deeply while driving :-/
19:34.04bazemaybe i'll buy a neo later, when there is more software out
19:34.04wurp2So I will miss a turn, then not be able to find my way where I'm supposed to be in a reasonable time
19:34.04kdean06I've always taken for granted my ability to "sense" North. :P
19:34.17kdean06But I can't do "left" or "right" without thinking about it. :S
19:34.19wurp2although now that I'm using navit, I don't worry so much about having a plan first
19:34.24wurp2kdean06: My wife is the same way!
19:34.38kdean06My wife chuckles at that, and then thinks it's weird that I know where north is.
19:34.44wurp2My sense of direction has atrophied, if that's possible, since we got married
19:34.54wurp2She just always tells me when & where to turn
19:35.03wurp2although I have to look at her to make sure left is left ;-)
19:35.10kdean06My wife does that... About 3 seconds too late though. :(
19:35.14bazei really hope that when the freerunner version hits the open the openstreetmap coverage will improve drastically :)
19:35.14kdean06She needs a GPS...
19:35.21kdean06And auto-pilot.
19:35.28kdean06Then she'd only get lost half the time.
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19:36.03wurp2baze: I think soon after, it will
19:36.16wurp2because someone's gotta put together some software to automatically add new roads
19:36.23wurp2Then you just have to add labesl
19:36.28wurp2s/labesl/labels/
19:36.29bazeyeah
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19:37.35bazebut the neo is still pretty poor on battery life, isn't it?
19:38.07bazemy k800i can hold out about a week on standby... i read about  maybe 5h with the neo...
19:38.26bazethat'd be really sad, if you'd have to recharge it every day, maybe twice a day
19:38.34kdean06On the GTA01, yes. Rumor has it the GTA02 is under control.
19:38.49baze"under control" means? ;)
19:38.51kdean06baze, I connect mine unless I'm in the car. :)
19:38.54wurp2I think the expectation is still that the 01 is fixable
19:38.55kdean06I don't know.
19:38.59bazek
19:39.12kdean06I can't speak other than rumor, since I've never touched a Freerunner.
19:39.45kdean06Of course, right now there's a TON that could happen by trimming software down even without serious power management fixes.
19:40.11wurp2kdean06: Hmm, what do you mean?
19:40.21wurp2Everything I can think of would require resetting cpu speed
19:40.23DukeOfURLHello
19:40.29wurp2and afaik even that hasn't been confirmed as possible
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19:40.39wurp2w/o screwing up gsm
19:41.09bazebtw, is sms text messaging working already?
19:41.18DukeOfURLDoes anyone know the manufacturer of the AUX switch?  It's a SMD device, and I think it's DPDT.
19:41.30DukeOfURLI'm having no luck with openmoko.com
19:42.05kdean06baze, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/2008-01-29
19:42.11bazethx
19:42.29wurp2DukeOfURL: Are you the guy whose aux switch broke?
19:42.39DukeOfURLyes, still not fixed.
19:42.53wurp2It surprises me that you can't get that question answered from FIC :-(
19:43.06DukeOfURLtotally unresponsive
19:43.25DukeOfURLI've asked for a replacement switch and to have them fix it.
19:43.38wurp2Try talking to Michael Shiloh about it
19:43.47wurp2He has been pretty responsive for me
19:43.51kdean06wurp2, Ever CPU cycle is a bit less battery power. There's discussion right now about trimming unneeded dependancies from certain core thigns that were added in "because they depend on it" and not because it's needed in OM. Since these are in the rootfs, which is compresses, literally every byte removed gives a smidge more battery life.
19:44.00DukeOfURLwhat's his contack into?  thanks
19:44.04DukeOfURLcontact
19:44.31bazekdean06: that sounds pretty promising :) (sms)
19:45.19kdean06The 29th image worked well for me with a single patch. It works as a phone and sending SMS which is all I need. Everything else is an extra.
19:45.38kdean06And by patch I mean "editing two characters in a text file". :)
19:45.59wurp2kdean06: I thought you only reduced cpu power if you actually clocked it down
19:46.03*** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@32.60.107.139)
19:47.00bazehm, what's this "multitap keyboard?" (damn, i'm really not up to date ;))
19:47.07bazeany screenshots available?
19:47.21wurp2There is one on the 1-30 snapshot update
19:47.26wurp2it sucketh for terminal input
19:47.38wurp2better than the qwerty (marginally) for sms input
19:47.53wurp2although I think the openmoko-keyboard is better still for sms
19:48.10wurp2s/qwerty/matchbox-keyboard/
19:48.12bazeis it the usage of the dial number buttons?
19:48.17wurp2yeah
19:48.20bazeah ok
19:48.26wurp2like texting on a normal numeric keypad
19:48.30wurp2only the keypad is virtual
19:49.02bazehm, i was hoping for sth like the (oh oh, the bad word...) iphone keyboard, but i guess the screen is not large enough for that..
19:49.12bazeto actually be usable with only finger input
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19:50.21wurp2It could be done if the keyboard overlaid the info
19:50.31wurp2Like if it were ghosted over the display
19:50.38bazehm
19:50.45kdean06I actually saw a patch at some point that made mathbox-keyboard do something like that, I think.
19:50.46wurp2Which hopefully someone will do soonish
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19:50.50bazebut is the width of the display not too limited?
19:51.08wurp2The display is only very slightly smaller than iPhone
19:51.13wurp2with double the resolution
19:51.15kdean06But I THINK the MB keyboard was replaced to close bug 1121, not because it was seen as "better" in the long run.
19:51.43bazeyeah, but the resolution is not the important thing, when it comes to usage with fingers..
19:51.51wurp2sure
19:51.57kdean06baze, If you've not seen it -> http://www.monochromementality.com/data/phoo/2008_01_30/medium/t9-input.png
19:52.14bazethere was sth about a keyboard done with edje on a n800, i think
19:52.20kdean06;)
19:52.25bazemaybe that would be good for the neo
19:52.36bazekdean06: yeah, i found that -_-
19:52.42bazethanks though
19:52.53bazehttp://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/07/24/iphone-like-virtual-keyboard-for-n800/ <- that's the one
19:53.20kdean06:(
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19:54.25wurp2kdean06: That bothers me if they're closing bugs based on making a change that is unacceptable for other reasons
19:54.50wurp2That's just the illusion of progress, and it hides the bug for when you decide to return to the 'right' way of doing things
19:55.16kdean06I dont' think the bug has yet been closed... I think an alternate input was put in so that functionality could be used until the bug could be closed.
19:55.34wurp2ah, that makes sense
19:55.36kdean06And I apologize for wording it that way.
19:55.42kdean06To workaround bug 1121. :)
19:56.27wurp2in that case I agree wholeheartedly with the decision :-)  I shoulda looked to see if 1121 was closed
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19:57.27kdean06wurp2, It's still open and it mentioned raster as being the one to impliment a new keyboard. In the meantime, this one is Chris's which he admits to having hacked in a day and not being very good. :)
20:01.38*** join/#openmoko Jungle (n=jungle@M2331P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
20:03.44wurp2I noticed a weirdness
20:03.44wurp2matchbox-keyboard looks very cramped now
20:04.03wurp2I think they increased the size & the font, and now some text doesn't fit on its virtual key
20:04.32wurp2but the really weird thing is that if you hit the same key multiple times, it switches what letter it shows instead of repeating
20:04.38wurp2like the multitap pad does
20:05.47*** join/#openmoko sk_ (i=zoniq@chili.geekmind.org)
20:06.13wurp2kdean06: It looks as if your snapshot reviews are already a big hit
20:06.34wurp2Core devs are using them as a place to see issues to work on and comment about them
20:06.43kdean06O_o
20:07.06wurp2Werner and JW have commented on yesterday's SS
20:07.07kdean06Why do you say that?
20:07.10wurp2^^^
20:07.25wurp2I hit RecentChanges on the wiki about 4 times a day ;-)
20:08.12kdean06Cool. :)
20:08.52kdean06The wiki is loading VERY slowly for me.
20:09.26kdean06And http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/ no longer seems to load content...
20:10.00*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.211)
20:10.01wurp2kdean06: Remove the trailing slash
20:10.25kdean06Geeze... Thanks. :S
20:11.20kdean06Drat... I realized I just overwrote a screenshot. :(
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20:16.36kdean06The responce on the mailing list was overwhelmingly positive. :)
20:18.01*** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net)
20:20.26wurp2Yeah, I saw that
20:20.35Placidhiasd
20:20.37PlacidxD
20:22.25Vegara link to the reviews (or the latest review) at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review would be nice
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20:24.09wurp2Vegar: Good idea, why don't you put on on there :-)
20:25.26kdean06Added
20:25.53PlacidGood idea, Vegar.
20:25.54Placid:)
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20:44.00CIA-15openmoko: 03rwhitby * r177 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added qtopia target
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20:44.36xuxa_Am I right in thinking the "consumer-ready" version of the openmoko has not yet been released?  I see mentions for late 2007 everywhere at the openmoko sites but no actual phones being sold that way...
20:44.57wurp2that's right
20:45.03wurp2It was not in '07
20:45.04wurp2see topic
20:45.26xuxa_thank you
20:45.34wurp2You're welcome :-)
20:45.43xuxa_ah "FreeRunner"... cool
20:45.57xuxa_I'm so excited about a Free phone!
20:46.08wurp2me too
20:46.21CVirusxuxa_: you have to wait then :-)
20:46.26CMI guess that's why everyone is still in here
20:46.28wurp2so excited I couldn't wait, so I bought an 01 about 6 weeks ago
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20:46.40xuxa_wurp2: how are you liking it?
20:46.46wurp2Very much
20:46.57xuxa_is it completely usable as a cell phone?
20:47.02CMHas anyone gotten python-edbus_cvs.bb to build recently?
20:47.02wurp2I use it for my primary phone, which only works 'cause I'm never away from a computer for more than 4 hours
20:47.07xuxa_gotcha
20:47.10wurp2xuxa_: yes
20:47.13xuxa_I see
20:47.15xuxa_very cool
20:47.29*** join/#openmoko Moniker42 (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/student/Moniker42)
20:47.33wurp2and I've written some python code for it, and I use it for my gps
20:47.51wurp2or will again if I can get navit working again on a recent release
20:48.12wurp2or get pypy or psyco ported so I can run pyroute at a decent speed
20:48.15xuxa_thanks for the input, everyone
20:48.31ziluxwurp2: navit ok on 27th
20:48.40wurp2zilux: Hey, thanks!
20:48.46wurp2Do you know what package you're using?
20:49.04wurp2Mine doesn't find its navit.xml, and when I run from /usr/share/navit, it doesn't find the libraries
20:49.06ziluxbut perhaps the navit.xml file has to be updated
20:49.15wurp2ah, maybe that's it
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20:49.18ziluxI use the cvs one
20:49.19wurp2I was just copying over my old one
20:49.34ziluxok
20:49.36wurp2I don't have a working build env :-(
20:50.23ziluxI can send you mine but perhaps a more official one is floating around ?
20:50.32zilux(navit.ipk)
20:53.03wurp2Hey, that would be great!
20:53.24*** join/#openmoko faern (n=faern@faern.olf.sgsnet.se)
20:53.59ziluxthe xml file can be added as argument:
20:54.02ziluxhttp://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Configuring_NavIt
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20:59.15wurp2OK, I thought before that it was finding mine
20:59.19wurp2but I may just be misremembering
20:59.49ziluxI use navit 0.0.3 in fact. If you are ineterested in, I put it there http://oralux.net/tmp2/
21:00.00wurp2OK, thanks much
21:00.14ziluxok
21:00.15wurp2I think I'm using 0.0.3
21:00.28ziluxso the issue is elsewhere
21:00.41wurp2So maybe it's just that I'm not passing in the navit.xml argument, and maybe I failed to get some libs I need
21:00.47wurp2although I didn't think I had
21:00.56wurp2oh, wait, maybe the libs moved
21:01.11wurp2I remember editing my navit.xml to tell it where to find the libraries when I first installed navit
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21:09.12ziluxwurp2: in principle, my last navit.xml is there: http://oralux.net/tmp2/navit.xml
21:11.17wurp2zilux: Cool, thanks again!
21:11.37ziluxn!
21:11.40ziluxnp!
21:14.47kristian-mnavit has no menu entry in applications :-(
21:16.19wurp2kristian-m: It's not hard to add one
21:16.34wurp2Copy an existing one in /usr/share/applications/*.desktop and edit it
21:17.24wurp2Make sure you copy from one that's in Applications
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21:18.15kristian-mwurp2 right - but someone should check it into the repos
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21:18.50ziluxIn fact, here it appeared in the menu without any effort :-)
21:19.04kristian-mhuh?*search*
21:19.49kristian-mnot there
21:19.56wurp2kristian-m: Note that sometimes (always?) the menu doesn't update after you add a .desktop until you reboot :-(
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21:20.26kristian-mi restarted xorg
21:20.46wurp2Hmm, one would think that would take care of it...
21:20.57kristian-mit does
21:21.07wurp2You can look in /usr/share/applications to see if the file is there
21:21.29wurp2Note also that zilux is using a version he built from CVS, I think
21:21.59kristian-mah that's it
21:26.44ziluxno .desktop here, perhaps the default /usr/share/applications/navit.desktop is automatically merged?
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21:45.39pjzdoes anyone know if the openmoko guys are trying to get their uboot/kernel patches mainlined?
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21:49.30kristian-mpjz i suppose so
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21:53.33cesarbpjz: harald is getting the ones he made
21:53.42cesarbpjz: the later ones I don't know
21:53.44balrog-kunpjz: yes but not as the highest priority
21:55.35pjzwell, I was just thinking that the 2.6.25 merge window is now open, they should try and push them upstream
21:55.46pjzslim down the diffs some
21:56.00pjzer, slim down the diffs that the openmoko proj has to maintain some
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21:56.24cesarbpjz: I'd doubt they would go in this window, except for the ones harald has already pushed to the arm developers
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21:56.39cesarbpjz: there is a lag before patches actually get upstream
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22:12.14CIA-15freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r66 10/trunk/software/py-proto/INSTALL: put together some install information
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22:24.28wurp2mickey|sofa: On freesmartphone.org, what is the photo in the upper left?
22:25.08wurp2Presumably it's some concept mock-up based on ePaper, but I would love to see someone working on manufacturing something like that.
22:25.55stefan_schmidtwurp2: http://www.polymervision.com/
22:26.25wurp2thanks!
22:26.43stefan_schmidtwurp2: np
22:27.32kristian-monly black an white for now - for what i read
22:29.16stefan_schmidtkristian-m: yeah, some research on color e-paper but nothing working IIRC
22:29.28stefan_schmidtkristian-m: University research that is
22:32.45wurp2Are there any resources on how open it is, if at all?
22:32.57wurp2Everything I can find is press releases or marketing copy about the hardware.
22:33.25wurp2Not that I'll be in the market for a new cell phone any time in the next 2 years
22:33.56balrog-kunafaik the e-paper companies are investing in linux as the OS for at least some of the devices
22:34.29wurp2Yeah, but just because it's built on linux doesn't mean it's open :-(
22:34.43wurp2They can make it so you must have a proprietary updater to put new software on it
22:35.58balrog-kuni haven't heard of a manufacturer that would make it this way *succesfully*
22:38.29wurp2I haven't watched too much the linux phone market
22:38.42wurp2the ones I've looked at, I thought were still pretty locked down
22:38.47wurp2hence my interest in the neo
22:40.08balrog-kunyeah, definitely it's better if the opensource part is supported instead of a hack made by users
22:41.17kristian-mstefan_schmidt can you oint me to a url for that? *google*
22:43.07stefan_schmidtkristian-m: Sorry, not off-hand. Just something that sneaked into my mind. :)
22:45.31kristian-mstefan_schmidt okay, anyway thanks for the hint - I'll write some pages about that in my master thesis then
22:46.00stefan_schmidtkristian-m: ah, cool. Please make sure you get a better source you can cite. :)
22:46.09kristian-mbalrog-kun isn't at least one of them already linux based?
22:46.28kristian-mstefan_schmidt i'll have to ;-9
22:46.50stefan_schmidtkristian-m: I know. :)
22:47.05balrog-kunkristian-m: possibly, i don't really know
22:47.15balrog-kuni saw one that was an ARM7 so couldn't run linux
22:51.12kristian-mbalrog-kun there it is: http://www.irextechnologies.com/products
22:51.35SpeedEvilnick: get http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-0Watt-FM-Radio-Transmitter-Board-HiFi-PLL-STEREO_W0QQitemZ150211769695QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4675QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and glue a amp on the end
22:52.00SpeedEviloops
22:52.19cjb_iei hate those sodding long ebay urls
22:52.37balrog-kunkristian-m: cool
22:53.26SpeedEvilyeah
22:53.28SpeedEvilI do too.
22:53.41SpeedEvilI wish they'd make it easy to simply link
22:54.01balrog-kunlooks like a C++ identifier mangled by the compiler to fit in the C namespace..
22:54.16wurp2balrog-kun: ;-)
22:54.38wurp2Did they ever come up with a standard for that?
22:54.59wurp2I've only done one C++ contract in the last... 7 years or so
22:55.01balrog-kunyes, i think there's a standard for every architecture
22:55.13wurp2heh, I meant ONE standard
22:55.58balrog-kunmaybe in many years from now.. :)
22:57.43balrog-kunactually.. it really looks like a C++ identifier...
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22:58.55wurp2I thought they had _s in them, and tended to have strings of 'i's and 'u's, etc.
22:59.36balrog-kunoh, i'm not sure, but not on ARM at least
22:59.42balrog-kuni think Z means and int or something
22:59.48wurp2ah, I've never developed on ARM
22:59.56wurp2at least, not C/C++
23:00.05balrog-kun*an
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23:09.19*** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-76-102-48-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
23:12.24cesarbbalrog-kun: looks like QQ is a replacement for & and Z is a replacement for =
23:12.41cesarbbalrog-kun: which makes you wonder "WHY?"
23:13.33balrog-kunhehe, true
23:13.42balrog-kuncesarb: security through obscurity maybe :)
23:14.29*** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net)
23:14.39*** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk)
23:15.16*** join/#openmoko bahadunn (n=bahadunn@24.231.34.110)
23:15.26*** join/#openmoko ManarD- (i=chickhun@89.43.175.47)
23:21.36*** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim)
23:21.42*** part/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz)
23:32.02blckdovezilux: posted to community
23:36.54*** join/#openmoko toxx_ (n=toxx_@97-220-dsl.kielnet.net)
23:37.57*** join/#openmoko pmw (n=pmw@m438236d0.tmodns.net)
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23:40.45*** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@cpe-67-9-161-48.austin.res.rr.com)
23:42.03cesarbIs OE still using 2.6.22.5 for OM?
23:45.14*** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=TAsn@89.1.211.239.dynamic.barak-online.net)
23:45.36XorA|gonecesarb: yes
23:46.32*** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org)
23:46.56cesarbXorA|gone: thanks. looks like I'll keep with the weeks-old compile I'm using currently.
23:47.44ziluxblckdove: great!
23:50.59cesarbXorA|gone: I heard it at least boots in the GTA01 devices now...
23:51.44*** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
23:53.15toxx_XorA|gone: I am using the openmoko/andy-branch and it works (though currently I have some issues with my kernel config and a missing root file system... VFS ... kernel panic :-)
23:54.48*** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=user0815@e179104232.adsl.alicedsl.de)
23:57.45*** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117)

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