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03:42.04 | freeflying | hi all, after flash the kernel and rootfs, the system can not run, stopped at the splash process about 90% |
03:42.22 | SpeedEvil | Ok. |
03:42.29 | SpeedEvil | Have you ever upgraded u-boot? |
03:42.38 | freeflying | no |
03:42.43 | SpeedEvil | Right. |
03:42.50 | freeflying | using the rootfs and kernel here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/ |
03:42.55 | SpeedEvil | Your problem is probably that jffs2 sucks |
03:43.10 | SpeedEvil | It gets confused if you copy a smaller image over a larger one |
03:43.15 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: but the rootfs was mounted |
03:43.16 | SpeedEvil | this can result in partial booting |
03:43.25 | SpeedEvil | and massive filesystem corruption |
03:43.44 | SpeedEvil | even though the copy is OK, the bit left unwiped corrupts. |
03:43.47 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: need I erase the rootfs before flash new one? |
03:44.22 | SpeedEvil | yes |
03:44.22 | SpeedEvil | look at http://www.airdisaster.com/forums/ |
03:44.23 | SpeedEvil | err |
03:44.23 | SpeedEvil | http://www.arrowne.com/arrow_worldwide/uk/main.html |
03:44.23 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: any new rootfs and kernenl? |
03:44.23 | SpeedEvil | argh |
03:44.24 | SpeedEvil | hang on |
03:44.48 | freeflying | thx |
03:45.57 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
03:46.07 | SpeedEvil | search for erase rootfs |
03:46.12 | SpeedEvil | and do read the cautions |
03:46.59 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: and where can I find the latest kernel and rootfs? thx |
03:47.18 | SpeedEvil | Don't know, I use mokomakefile to build my own |
03:48.29 | freeflying | r u using neo1973 now? |
03:49.19 | SpeedEvil | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D seems current |
03:49.21 | SpeedEvil | yea |
03:49.56 | SpeedEvil | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080115-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 in that directory |
03:50.17 | freeflying | thanks |
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03:50.58 | SpeedEvil | I think http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3801-r13-neo1973.bin is the matching kernel |
03:52.25 | Any_Key | morning all |
03:53.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1188 has been created by kevin(AT)foreverdean.info |
03:53.02 | cdbot2 | * * Entering e-mail address causes "phantom" button presses |
03:53.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1188 |
03:53.15 | SpeedEvil | However, the images you have should work adter doing nand erase rootfs |
03:54.33 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: I got to try, thanks |
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03:57.05 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: firstly flash the kernel or rootfs? |
03:57.34 | kdean06 | I asked earlier and nobody responded, but for the app where one adds contact to the address book, is that application called openmoko-contacts2 and if so, where is it located in SVN? I do not see it in applications and I'm wondering if this is an oversight or if it's actually part of another application. |
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04:02.53 | SpeedEvil | freeflying: kernel is fine |
04:03.00 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: thanks |
04:03.15 | SpeedEvil | freeflying: it's only the rootfs that needs the nand erase rootfs done |
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04:06.31 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: I also erase the kernel :) |
04:07.29 | SpeedEvil | Won't do any harm - but isn't needed - the kernel doesn't suffer from the problem with leftover data |
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04:40.17 | justin111 | anyone there |
04:40.56 | justin111 | i have a few ?s on the neo before i buy |
04:42.32 | mwester | er, "3", "Yes", and "Sometimes, but not on alternate Tuesdays". Do those answers match any of your questions? :p |
04:43.32 | SpeedEvil | And also 'yes, but it's not waterproof, and the vibrate function will drain the battery rapidly'. |
04:43.49 | mwester | justin111: just ask. those who are able to answer will do so when they happen to glance back in on this channel from whatever they might be doing right now... |
04:43.50 | SpeedEvil | @find harald friedman |
04:43.52 | SpeedEvil | oops |
04:44.27 | justin111 | is the GTA02 the final hardware for the consumer version |
04:44.34 | SpeedEvil | No |
04:44.42 | SpeedEvil | There will hopefully never be final hardware |
04:44.51 | justin111 | well |
04:44.55 | SpeedEvil | openmoko will succeed and eventually more and more phones will be released |
04:45.04 | justin111 | will GTA02 be sold as the consemer version |
04:45.21 | SpeedEvil | As we understand it, those are the current plans |
04:45.43 | SpeedEvil | it's going to be at least several months before hardware - with debatably complete software will be available. |
04:46.24 | justin111 | ok so if i buy one now will i be able to upgrade to consumer software |
04:46.38 | SpeedEvil | yes - that's the entire point |
04:46.49 | raster | well final for the GTA02 |
04:46.54 | raster | like any company that makese a product |
04:47.02 | raster | it will make a "newer product" |
04:47.18 | SpeedEvil | The whole idea of openmoko is that you have a tiny bit of per-phone software |
04:47.31 | SpeedEvil | The kernel drivers basically, and any userspace handlers for them. |
04:47.39 | justin111 | what is the extent of this linux kernal is it like uclinux or a full blown 2.6 |
04:47.42 | raster | that depends |
04:47.43 | SpeedEvil | then the rest of the phone stack is 'just' linux |
04:47.47 | SpeedEvil | justin111: full |
04:47.47 | raster | if phone has no camera |
04:47.51 | raster | no need to put it on |
04:47.54 | raster | add camera for phhone |
04:48.02 | raster | customised ui layout/look to match phone design |
04:48.12 | raster | or screen resolution |
04:48.13 | raster | etc. |
04:48.17 | justin111 | KDE or GNOME (quick poll) |
04:48.21 | raster | the principle is right |
04:48.23 | SpeedEvil | justin111: it's basically more similar in many ways to desktop environment software-wise than anything else. |
04:48.27 | raster | avoid doing massive work per phone |
04:48.32 | raster | but it still needs work per phone |
04:48.41 | raster | justin111: neither |
04:49.12 | justin111 | whats the CPU clock on the neo |
04:49.20 | SpeedEvil | 266Mhz |
04:49.29 | raster | 266 on the gta01 |
04:49.31 | SpeedEvil | 400 on the newer version to yet be released |
04:49.35 | raster | gta02 currently is stable at 400 |
04:49.35 | justin111 | isnt that right round pentium I |
04:49.40 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much |
04:49.41 | raster | but in theory we can do 500 |
04:49.47 | raster | if we fiddle with volatages a bit |
04:49.51 | SpeedEvil | It's about the same class as a |
04:49.53 | SpeedEvil | P100 |
04:49.56 | raster | but we dont have it stable |
04:50.06 | justin111 | are you a dev raster |
04:50.08 | SpeedEvil | Only 400 is specced in the datasheet |
04:50.12 | raster | SpeedEvil: the 266? |
04:50.29 | SpeedEvil | raster: no - the CPU for the freerunner/gta02 |
04:50.39 | raster | SpeedEvil: the 266 is about a p100 |
04:50.42 | raster | probably a bit more |
04:50.54 | raster | last time i checked arm against x86 on a p1 |
04:50.57 | justin111 | is the ram on the neo Phase change RAM like on IPOD |
04:51.06 | SpeedEvil | phase change? |
04:51.12 | justin111 | PRAM |
04:51.16 | justin111 | like in IPOD |
04:51.22 | raster | the x86 has about a 20% advantage per mhz |
04:51.24 | SpeedEvil | I'm not aware of the ipod using other than flash |
04:51.50 | raster | so a 100mhz pentium would eb about a 120mhz arm |
04:51.58 | SpeedEvil | err - no |
04:52.05 | raster | mind u that was the strongarm in the ipaq3660 |
04:52.15 | SpeedEvil | pentium has significantly faster in some cases - especially FP |
04:52.30 | raster | ok |
04:52.31 | SpeedEvil | P100-P120 is about right. I booted up my old P100 laptop |
04:52.32 | raster | not for fp |
04:52.34 | raster | for integer |
04:52.45 | justin111 | im a lil lost |
04:52.48 | SpeedEvil | Well - the neo CPU has no FPU |
04:52.49 | SpeedEvil | at all |
04:53.07 | SpeedEvil | You may be thinking of other ARM devices that do |
04:53.13 | raster | my pentium300mmx vaio was about double the speed of my 206mhz ipaq 3660 |
04:53.25 | raster | my tests had no fp ops |
04:53.28 | raster | integer only |
04:53.34 | raster | justin111: yes. i am |
04:53.45 | raster | SpeedEvil: tyhis is from memory |
04:53.49 | raster | also this is p1 |
04:54.01 | raster | much shorter pipelines and much crappier branch prediciton etc. |
04:54.07 | raster | compared to todays x86 |
04:54.16 | raster | and this was strongarm |
04:54.22 | raster | whhic reportedly was kick-arse |
04:54.26 | raster | its memory bus rocked |
04:54.27 | justin111 | i wish i could program for neo but im only 15 >.> all i have ever done is set up a web server |
04:54.35 | raster | unlike everythnig since |
04:54.49 | raster | justin111: then start learning |
04:55.00 | raster | when i was 15 i was writing games in 68kasm |
04:55.00 | justin111 | where on earth do i start |
04:55.11 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
04:55.12 | raster | buy a book |
04:55.43 | justin111 | what languages does neo support atm python C++ |
04:56.01 | justin111 | ohoh i think someone needs to port doom to neo |
04:56.10 | justin111 | i wish i could do that |
04:56.48 | raster | its a linux machine |
04:56.54 | raster | whatever you can put on linux |
04:57.04 | raster | its a full linux kenel, userspace etc., |
04:57.13 | raster | most stuff is done with c/c++ thouhg |
04:57.21 | raster | as its well supported by toolchains and fast |
04:57.34 | justin111 | could i write simple open GL stuff i |
04:57.47 | raster | neo has no opengl accel |
04:57.52 | justin111 | oh |
04:57.58 | SpeedEvil | It's a simple framebuffer |
04:57.59 | raster | porting doom is not useful |
04:58.03 | raster | already been done |
04:58.03 | justin111 | any 3d |
04:58.05 | SpeedEvil | though at QVGA it's not so bad |
04:58.07 | SpeedEvil | It's a simple framebuffer |
04:58.19 | SpeedEvil | There is _no_ 2d or 3d accel - in this current version |
04:58.29 | justin111 | oh |
04:58.40 | SpeedEvil | It can do virtual windows, pallette, and that's about it |
04:58.42 | justin111 | doom isnt technaclly 3d too |
04:58.43 | justin111 | right |
04:59.30 | SpeedEvil | As a benchmark - my PII/300 is 10 times as fast at md5sum /dev/zero as the neo |
04:59.58 | SpeedEvil | I forgot to time a kernel compile |
05:00.04 | justin111 | raster what dev are you whats your name |
05:00.31 | justin111 | im trying to figure out what you do |
05:01.09 | raster | JanC: i'm raster |
05:01.13 | SpeedEvil | He wanders from side to side, while descending slowly. |
05:01.14 | raster | justin111: i'm raster |
05:01.15 | raster | :) |
05:02.51 | justin111 | where are you on the dev page are you one of the paid guys |
05:03.07 | raster | SpeedEvil: i did some detailed speed analysis on my gta01 and gta02 |
05:03.12 | raster | trying to find my spreadsheet for it |
05:03.21 | raster | justin111: i work at openmoko |
05:03.36 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - P100-P150 is probably reasonable for 01 |
05:03.46 | justin111 | hey i have an idea could you run damn small linux on neo (you know that distro right) |
05:03.46 | SpeedEvil | maybe more or less in extreme tasks |
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05:03.55 | raster | aha |
05:03.56 | SpeedEvil | justin111: you can run whatever you like |
05:04.06 | SpeedEvil | justin111: the only problem is some distros are broken on arm |
05:04.08 | raster | these are rendering benchmarks |
05:04.15 | raster | 3.0ghz core2 duo |
05:04.18 | raster | 863 |
05:04.24 | raster | gta01 |
05:04.34 | justin111 | serioulsy i could run a full desktop linux distro from my phone |
05:04.35 | raster | 13.77 |
05:04.35 | justin111 | oh |
05:04.37 | justin111 | rendering |
05:04.42 | raster | gtao2@400mhz |
05:04.52 | raster | 13.55 |
05:05.03 | SpeedEvil | raster: is that simply ignoring the accel chip? |
05:05.15 | raster | no |
05:05.35 | raster | well there is nothing it can do to help |
05:05.40 | SpeedEvil | O)h - you can't ignore it and get output, I forgot. |
05:05.56 | raster | if i remove the gfx chip entirely from the picutre and just render to memory |
05:06.03 | raster | 15.31 for gta01 |
05:06.08 | raster | 20.23 for gta02 |
05:06.16 | raster | so the speedup for the cpu helps |
05:06.21 | raster | but the video bus slows it down |
05:06.24 | SpeedEvil | The gfx chip is where - on the memory bus? |
05:06.31 | raster | no |
05:06.34 | raster | gta01 it is |
05:06.38 | raster | gta02 its offboard |
05:06.48 | raster | write speeds to video ram are 30mb/sec |
05:07.00 | SpeedEvil | I mean writing to the accel chip |
05:07.05 | SpeedEvil | It's memory mapped? |
05:07.08 | raster | yup |
05:07.14 | raster | its just sloooow |
05:07.20 | SpeedEvil | That sounds quite slow. |
05:07.22 | raster | we dont have dma yet |
05:07.25 | raster | thats planned - eventually |
05:07.26 | justin111 | raster: will neo ever have 2d or 3d accel |
05:07.27 | SpeedEvil | Compared to the memory bus, which is snappy |
05:07.28 | raster | yup |
05:07.29 | SpeedEvil | ah |
05:07.38 | raster | in the end the gta02 will be about the same as gta01 graphics-wise |
05:07.42 | raster | (speed) |
05:07.51 | raster | we went nowehere fast |
05:07.54 | raster | :) |
05:08.05 | raster | anyway |
05:08.05 | SpeedEvil | I hope you mean native - before 2d/3d accel :) |
05:08.08 | raster | the main point is |
05:08.19 | justin111 | oh |
05:08.21 | justin111 | well yeah |
05:08.31 | raster | speed-wise if i disable display on my desktop i get about 1100 |
05:08.41 | raster | so 1100 vs. 15 vs 20 |
05:09.13 | SpeedEvil | I suspect my current machine that I'm typin on is closer to 40. |
05:09.14 | raster | so so give or take the gta02 is 2% the speed of a 3ghz core2-duo desktop |
05:09.21 | SpeedEvil | What's the test? |
05:09.34 | justin111 | has qtopia gone stable yet |
05:09.42 | raster | and gta01 about 1.4% |
05:10.11 | raster | i would say this desktop is about 200x the speed of the last p300mmx i had |
05:10.28 | raster | i rememebr benchmarks i got were about 1/10th what i got on my p3-800 dual desktop |
05:10.30 | SpeedEvil | md5sum /dev/zero goes at 22.5M on this PII/300 |
05:10.33 | SpeedEvil | as a pointless benchmark |
05:10.41 | SpeedEvil | M/S |
05:10.45 | raster | and i get about 10-20x what that had again |
05:10.51 | justin111 | how does open moko boot? from a ROM if so how big |
05:10.56 | raster | this is expedite |
05:11.01 | raster | its evas's benchmark suite |
05:11.09 | SpeedEvil | justin111: basically 128M internal flash |
05:11.16 | raster | so its relatively real-life as it covers a lot of calculations (mostly integer) and lots of mem access |
05:11.21 | SpeedEvil | justin111: and then up to 8G or so microSD |
05:11.39 | SpeedEvil | raster: C2D has what - 4 execution units? |
05:11.39 | justin111 | the ROM is SD internally |
05:11.48 | justin111 | is there and external one for media |
05:11.49 | SpeedEvil | justin111: no - there is an additional SD |
05:11.51 | raster | no idea |
05:12.01 | justin111 | oh ok |
05:12.08 | SpeedEvil | justin111: microSD |
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05:13.02 | justin111 | i wish i could sound smarter sorry for all the annoying questions thanks for answering them |
05:13.07 | SpeedEvil | np |
05:13.16 | justin111 | im pretty sure im gettin a neo now |
05:13.25 | SpeedEvil | It is _not_ consumer ready |
05:13.25 | ljp | qtopia has been stable |
05:13.32 | SpeedEvil | At least with openmoko |
05:13.40 | SpeedEvil | I can't speak of Qtopia. |
05:13.47 | orospakr | not necessarily with power management, though. |
05:13.51 | SpeedEvil | As a phone, the most basic phone for $20 beats it. |
05:14.19 | justin111 | how ridiculous is the PM |
05:14.32 | SpeedEvil | silly. |
05:14.35 | SpeedEvil | At the moment. |
05:14.40 | SpeedEvil | There is work going on. |
05:14.48 | SpeedEvil | But at the moment, 8h standby or so. |
05:14.53 | justin111 | oh |
05:15.01 | justin111 | thats not as bad as i thought |
05:15.14 | justin111 | thats enought to get me thru the day |
05:15.29 | SpeedEvil | It looks like 40h standby is probably possible - from preliminary tests. |
05:15.38 | SpeedEvil | And there is work going on on getting to that point |
05:16.20 | justin111 | neo is GSM correct i think i might have to change carriers if so |
05:16.33 | justin111 | at first neo would be my toy tho |
05:16.34 | SpeedEvil | yes - the current one will not work in large slices of america |
05:16.37 | justin111 | not really a phone |
05:16.41 | SpeedEvil | There is no 850Mhz support |
05:17.21 | justin111 | this majorly change my decision |
05:17.28 | justin111 | idk on buying neo |
05:17.44 | justin111 | what carrier does GSM that is compatible for neo |
05:17.58 | raster | SpeedEvil: no phont is $20 |
05:18.00 | raster | phone |
05:18.01 | raster | :) |
05:18.12 | SpeedEvil | raster: $35 then |
05:18.21 | raster | i think the minimum is about $200 |
05:18.25 | justin111 | prepaid phones are down 2 $15 |
05:18.28 | raster | u are talking a subsidised phone |
05:18.30 | raster | dfoesnt count |
05:18.31 | raster | :) |
05:18.33 | SpeedEvil | No. |
05:18.41 | SpeedEvil | I'm talking of a _basic_ phone. |
05:18.52 | justin111 | ? |
05:19.41 | justin111 | why is it that out of 247 people its us 3 talking |
05:19.48 | justin111 | 297 |
05:20.02 | ljp | everyone else is asleep |
05:20.08 | justin111 | ? |
05:20.15 | justin111 | its only 9:30 |
05:20.16 | justin111 | well |
05:20.17 | raster | ok |
05:20.24 | justin111 | at least here in oregon |
05:20.27 | SpeedEvil | US has gone to sleep, UK isn't awake |
05:20.30 | raster | 3ghx core2 gets an evas bench of 29.5 |
05:20.35 | Rakshasa | You know, there are other timezones too, justin111. |
05:20.42 | justin111 | ha |
05:20.44 | justin111 | yeh |
05:20.44 | raster | my p3-800 i originally baselined at 1.0 |
05:20.45 | ljp | that leaves us aussies |
05:20.58 | justin111 | really aussies |
05:21.00 | raster | and i am very sure a p300mmx was getting about 0.1 to 0.15 at the time |
05:21.31 | ljp | crickie, mate, ya |
05:21.32 | justin111 | i wish i could leave USA sometimes just maybe live somewhere else for a year or 2 you know |
05:21.33 | raster | so 30 * 7 at a worst is 210 times faster than a p300mmx |
05:21.51 | raster | the p300mmx is probably about 4x an original p100 |
05:21.52 | SpeedEvil | I don't think there was p300 |
05:21.57 | raster | gfiven faster mem bus etc. |
05:21.59 | SpeedEvil | PII300 I think |
05:22.00 | raster | there was |
05:22.08 | SpeedEvil | I think PI topped out at 233 |
05:22.12 | raster | my sony vaio was a p300mmx |
05:22.14 | raster | nup |
05:22.22 | raster | made it to 300 in its later days |
05:22.29 | justin111 | like mexico where everyone goes home from 1:00 to 3:00 and takes a nap |
05:22.33 | *** join/#openmoko diego71 (n=diego@host-84-222-11-188.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
05:22.43 | SpeedEvil | raster: overclocked? |
05:22.48 | raster | nup |
05:22.50 | raster | from the factory |
05:22.52 | raster | back in 1999 |
05:22.57 | justin111 | hellz yes for measure ## for mandatory seista |
05:23.00 | raster | VA gave them to all the engineers |
05:23.37 | raster | the 505 |
05:23.39 | raster | not the x505 |
05:23.54 | raster | http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/CDE/_SONY505.GIF |
05:23.56 | raster | that one |
05:24.03 | SpeedEvil | Ok - looking I guess it's $40 ish |
05:24.05 | SpeedEvil | http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-as-you-go/nokia/2310-silver/overview/ |
05:24.08 | SpeedEvil | for example |
05:24.20 | SpeedEvil | (cheapest PAYG phone from my current provider) |
05:24.37 | SpeedEvil | Pay As You Go |
05:25.07 | Rakshasa | Wikipedia says pentium tillamook was 300mhz at best. |
05:25.22 | raster | there u go :) |
05:25.28 | raster | anyway |
05:25.42 | raster | slight problem is that i've been optimising this rendering engine for a long time |
05:25.45 | SpeedEvil | ah - tillamook - I vaguely remember that |
05:25.50 | raster | i may have it 3 times faster than it was back then |
05:26.02 | raster | so lets make it201/3 |
05:26.05 | raster | == 70 |
05:26.09 | raster | err |
05:26.10 | raster | 210/3 |
05:26.12 | raster | == 70 |
05:26.59 | raster | whihc actually puts the gta01@266mhz about a p300 |
05:27.01 | raster | :) |
05:27.11 | raster | now - if i had a p300 to run benchmarks on... |
05:27.21 | *** join/#openmoko [PI]Sami (n=sami@a9b.pirttimaki.jyu.fi) |
05:27.34 | SpeedEvil | raster: which I have slight doubts on to some degree - but the memory bus is much faster - so it's probably not way out. |
05:27.36 | raster | anyone have one? |
05:27.45 | SpeedEvil | No - Just PII/300 |
05:27.49 | raster | hmm |
05:27.51 | raster | alive? |
05:28.01 | SpeedEvil | Using it at the moment. |
05:28.05 | raster | thaqt u can run somehting on? (and have an actual display/screen)? |
05:28.09 | raster | cool |
05:28.10 | SpeedEvil | It's 1.1Kg laptop with 8 hour uptime |
05:28.17 | SpeedEvil | (after re-celling) |
05:28.24 | SpeedEvil | and internal bluetooth and wifi. |
05:28.30 | SpeedEvil | (after butchery) |
05:28.51 | raster | gimme 30 secs |
05:29.51 | raster | ok |
05:29.52 | raster | 1 min |
05:29.53 | raster | rsyncing |
05:30.37 | Rakshasa | I got one pII300 desktop down in the basement. =P |
05:30.45 | raster | hehehe |
05:31.04 | justin111 | will neo have windows support dont think it should windows users should have the privlage of touching neo they might contaminate it |
05:31.10 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/evas-0.9.9.041.tar.gz |
05:31.11 | raster | that |
05:31.12 | justin111 | windows is all GUI ewwwwww |
05:31.14 | raster | download |
05:31.16 | SpeedEvil | justin111: unless windows supports it - no |
05:31.21 | raster | configure && make && make install |
05:31.23 | Rakshasa | Coupled with an Athlon xp 2000+ =P |
05:31.25 | SpeedEvil | MS could port it |
05:31.36 | justin111 | skrew MS |
05:31.49 | SpeedEvil | dling |
05:31.54 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/expedite-0.6.0.tar.gz |
05:31.56 | raster | then same with that |
05:31.59 | justin111 | yay my kubuntu iso is done |
05:32.18 | raster | u might want to do |
05:32.28 | raster | export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig |
05:32.37 | raster | before building expedite |
05:32.50 | raster | when u have that done |
05:32.58 | raster | run expedite -e x11 |
05:33.06 | raster | actually |
05:33.10 | raster | run expedite -e x11 -a |
05:33.14 | raster | that will do all the tests |
05:33.21 | raster | same as i did |
05:33.23 | raster | just wait |
05:33.28 | raster | it will spew out results to stdout |
05:34.43 | justin111 | jon phillips = raster = head of open moko right? |
05:34.51 | ljp | heh |
05:34.55 | ljp | he wishes |
05:35.06 | justin111 | head dev at least right |
05:35.06 | raster | jon philips is head of openmoko? |
05:35.54 | justin111 | http://rejon.org//media/2007/12/jon_lu_beijing.jpg http://www.rasterman.com/photos/2005-12-xx_europe_holiday-getting_there/pict2555.jpg |
05:36.02 | justin111 | resemblance |
05:36.51 | justin111 | wait |
05:36.53 | raster | hahahaha |
05:36.55 | raster | no way |
05:36.56 | justin111 | second thinking |
05:37.02 | justin111 | grrr im dumb |
05:37.04 | justin111 | nvm |
05:37.25 | SpeedEvil | configuring evas |
05:37.44 | justin111 | wow i just made an idiot out of myself great first impression eh? |
05:37.54 | ljp | raster: the one on the right or the left? |
05:38.17 | justin111 | i have to go install kubuntu be on l8r tonight or tommarow |
05:38.22 | raster | jon isnt in openmoko |
05:38.28 | raster | he doesnt work for the company at any rate |
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05:38.53 | raster | SpeedEvil: this may take a while.... |
05:38.54 | raster | :) |
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05:40.19 | *** part/#openmoko dkenzior (n=dkenzior@203.94.178.46) |
05:41.12 | freeflying | SpeedEvil: how to configure the sound volum with latest rootfs? thx |
05:41.24 | SpeedEvil | I have no idea other than alsactl |
05:41.38 | SpeedEvil | I haven't been using it as much as a phone as I should |
05:41.45 | SpeedEvil | or using the software in normal ways |
05:43.30 | freeflying | ok, thanks |
05:47.53 | raster | SpeedEvil: still compiling? |
05:48.01 | SpeedEvil | 12756 irc 25 0 12268 9.8m 2916 R 53.8 5.2 0:01.63 cc1 |
05:48.17 | raster | ugh |
05:51.00 | SpeedEvil | My fan went off. |
05:51.05 | SpeedEvil | looking at other package |
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05:51.58 | dbmoodb | hi just a q is it possible to preorder a freerunner ? |
05:52.10 | dbmoodb | or should i talk to openmoko.com about that |
05:53.02 | SpeedEvil | Not yet |
05:53.06 | raster | dbmoodb: no - not possible yet |
05:53.35 | dbmoodb | ok |
05:53.48 | dbmoodb | and with the gps, will openmoko be getting some maps for it ? |
05:53.56 | dbmoodb | like google maps maybe from the andriod team ? |
05:54.17 | SpeedEvil | no |
05:54.29 | SpeedEvil | Licensing maps is a _horrid_ process |
05:54.31 | raster | nup |
05:54.38 | raster | maps are not open |
05:54.40 | raster | and are expensive |
05:54.49 | SpeedEvil | Some maps are open. |
05:54.54 | raster | and u'd need to license them per country, state or even city |
05:54.57 | SpeedEvil | (but not very good yet in most places) |
05:55.03 | raster | SpeedEvil: yes - openstreemaps for example |
05:55.56 | dbmoodb | can't we just launch the google andriod framework for the maps part ? |
05:55.56 | raster | dbmoodb: android *IS* google |
05:56.02 | dbmoodb | i know |
05:56.04 | raster | and google has licensed use of its maps |
05:56.07 | dbmoodb | but if they get maps lets use them |
05:56.09 | raster | google has lots of money to do so |
05:56.11 | dbmoodb | if it is possible |
05:56.12 | raster | we dont |
05:56.18 | dbmoodb | ok can we ask them ? |
05:56.29 | raster | and no we cant |
05:56.39 | raster | we cant just use android at this tage |
05:56.45 | raster | we dont even know how it would fit in |
05:57.06 | SpeedEvil | Google pays stupid amounts of money to the primary map-creating companies to have the rights to show maps to users |
05:57.08 | raster | and using their apps doesnt license us use of google maps |
05:57.18 | dbmoodb | sure |
05:57.24 | dbmoodb | nar i'm asking if we can ask google to use their maps |
05:57.35 | raster | we could |
05:57.36 | SpeedEvil | For them to get the rights to distribute these maps would be an insane amount of money. |
05:57.50 | raster | but right now we aren't |
05:57.53 | SpeedEvil | Google has apparent interests in not doing so though. |
05:58.07 | raster | also we cant distribute googles maps |
05:58.10 | raster | never goign to happen |
05:58.11 | SpeedEvil | (letting others have freeer use of their maps. |
05:58.12 | raster | they are too big |
05:58.20 | raster | we'd need subsets |
05:58.27 | raster | also it'd be a legal minefield |
05:58.34 | raster | google licenses from X |
05:58.37 | SpeedEvil | That's not perhaps correct - you don't know the size of the underlying vector data |
05:58.47 | raster | we license from google who now needs to invole party X, Y, Z |
05:58.48 | raster | etc. |
05:58.51 | dbmoodb | sure |
05:58.55 | raster | and you want the whole world's maps? |
05:58.57 | raster | whihc regions? |
05:58.58 | raster | etc. |
05:59.01 | raster | its just not sane |
05:59.05 | dbmoodb | no i would want the region i'm in |
05:59.16 | raster | SpeedEvil: for the world - it'd be monsterous |
05:59.31 | raster | a few gb at least |
05:59.45 | raster | even for a single country map data can be several hundred mb |
06:00.03 | raster | and thats countires like german, france, uk |
06:00.06 | raster | more for the usa |
06:00.08 | raster | etc. |
06:00.10 | raster | again |
06:00.15 | raster | its all a very big problem |
06:00.27 | dbmoodb | so what is the plan with the gps then ? |
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06:03.01 | SpeedEvil | raster: it's sitting on a grey blob |
06:03.08 | SpeedEvil | after a few mins |
06:03.14 | SpeedEvil | with a text notice if I click it |
06:03.17 | raster | dbmoodb: its a piece of hardware that tells u were you are |
06:03.19 | raster | tyhats about it |
06:03.20 | raster | :) |
06:03.29 | dbmoodb | great... i think we can do more than that soon |
06:03.58 | raster | SpeedEvil: grey blob? |
06:03.59 | SpeedEvil | ŸOh - there it goes. |
06:04.06 | SpeedEvil | About how long does it take? |
06:04.11 | raster | hmm dunno |
06:04.22 | raster | it takes like a few seconds here |
06:04.24 | raster | 10 or so) |
06:04.28 | raster | could take a few mins |
06:04.31 | raster | for you |
06:05.05 | *** part/#openmoko dbmoodb (n=david@unaffiliated/dbmoodb) |
06:05.27 | SpeedEvil | It's on slowly moving loops of text |
06:05.43 | raster | dud u see lots of images? |
06:05.54 | raster | golden e logos and images (photos) move? |
06:06.19 | raster | it almost sounds like evas didnt build the png or jpeg loaders |
06:06.22 | SpeedEvil | ;3~yes |
06:06.30 | raster | ooh ok |
06:06.35 | SpeedEvil | those happened - it's just slow I think |
06:06.41 | SpeedEvil | 22046 irc 25 0 7104 4204 3236 R 97.2 2.2 6:22.52 expedite |
06:07.43 | raster | it will consume all your cpu |
06:07.48 | raster | it always does |
06:07.50 | raster | :) |
06:07.55 | raster | its a benchmark suite |
06:07.56 | raster | :) |
06:08.03 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't seem to be using any of hte X server |
06:08.14 | raster | it does |
06:08.20 | SpeedEvil | (well - 1/10th of the time in X |
06:08.20 | raster | its just so little compared to the cost of rendering |
06:12.45 | SpeedEvil | raster: where is the overall number? |
06:12.46 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-224-67.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
06:14.10 | raster | at the end |
06:14.14 | raster | EVAS_SPEED |
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06:14.17 | SpeedEvil | 9 |
06:14.22 | raster | 9 |
06:14.24 | raster | OUCH |
06:14.31 | SpeedEvil | Which is odd. |
06:14.51 | SpeedEvil | I recently reinstalled X - and XV and accel haven't been working |
06:14.58 | SpeedEvil | Actually |
06:15.01 | raster | 847.64 , EVAS SPEED |
06:15.03 | SpeedEvil | It may have been thermal throttling |
06:15.05 | raster | is what i get |
06:15.13 | raster | and the numebrs i quoted before for the gta01 & 02 |
06:15.22 | raster | it doesnt use XV anywhere |
06:15.25 | raster | so that wont matter |
06:15.39 | raster | throttling will definitely kill u |
06:16.01 | SpeedEvil | the compiling before will have heat soaked it I think |
06:16.05 | SpeedEvil | And the room is hot |
06:16.16 | raster | possibly |
06:16.29 | raster | but the neo is beating u by 50% |
06:16.47 | raster | (as your box stands while its running that) |
06:18.41 | SpeedEvil | I have serious doubts as to that as a benchmark - everything else - without exception - runs at least a fair bit faster on this box. |
06:19.01 | SpeedEvil | Compiling, md5sum, mpeg/avi, ... |
06:19.03 | raster | its a valid benchmarkl as such |
06:19.39 | raster | in terms of comput and mem access its heavy |
06:19.45 | raster | note it DOESNT test IO |
06:19.54 | raster | the speed of flash (jff2) on the neo is abysmal |
06:20.09 | SpeedEvil | Is it unaligned single byte access heavy? |
06:20.09 | raster | the gta01 i think i got 2.5mb/sec read off flash |
06:20.34 | raster | the gta02 is even worse - 190kb/sec from flash |
06:20.39 | raster | no |
06:20.42 | SpeedEvil | SD or flash? |
06:20.44 | raster | its all aligned mem access |
06:20.54 | raster | unaligned mem access youlr absolutely be murder on an ARM |
06:20.59 | raster | flash |
06:21.07 | raster | Sd doesnt work on gta02 yet |
06:21.10 | SpeedEvil | I mean random bytes from mem. |
06:21.37 | raster | it will mostly be reading dwords |
06:21.42 | raster | (32bit) |
06:21.46 | raster | and writing lots of them |
06:21.52 | raster | lots of read/modify/write cycles |
06:21.52 | SpeedEvil | I think this box is SDR33 |
06:22.02 | raster | it may jump about memory a fair bit |
06:22.21 | raster | but within a region it is also likely to have very linear accesses - especially writes |
06:22.23 | SpeedEvil | In that case it's possible it's wiping out the cache advantage that I usually see |
06:22.37 | raster | it likely is completely destroying your cache |
06:22.53 | raster | but then again - the neo doesnt have any cache to help there either |
06:22.57 | raster | it will be killed off too |
06:22.59 | raster | so same boat |
06:23.02 | SpeedEvil | which is only 256K, but helps lots |
06:23.28 | SpeedEvil | No - but for 'real' workloads - the cache usually helps lots |
06:23.40 | SpeedEvil | and 256vs 16 is generally a big help |
06:23.57 | raster | rendering is a real workload |
06:24.02 | raster | more real than compiling |
06:24.03 | raster | :) |
06:24.13 | raster | on a phone.... |
06:24.47 | raster | video decode is also not a fair compariosn unless you run your desktop @ 16bpp |
06:24.57 | SpeedEvil | Not usually. |
06:24.58 | raster | and disable any xvideo support/use by the player |
06:25.07 | raster | then its closer to even |
06:25.09 | SpeedEvil | I do have a 4bpp mode I occasionally use |
06:25.14 | SpeedEvil | For battery saving |
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06:25.54 | raster | on your laptop? |
06:26.09 | SpeedEvil | yes |
06:26.33 | SpeedEvil | It's a (IIRC) 10%ish saving at dim screen, with the HD off |
06:26.48 | raster | aaah |
06:26.53 | raster | well that wont help anyway |
06:27.06 | raster | if u want to compare between your p2-300 laptop and a neo |
06:27.07 | SpeedEvil | No - I wasn't running that now. |
06:27.12 | raster | u need to try and make the playing field as even as possible |
06:27.25 | SpeedEvil | Though I plan on trying to implement 8 bit mode on the neo - for other reasons. |
06:27.37 | raster | for games? |
06:27.53 | SpeedEvil | Using it as a dev platform for soemthing else 2410 based |
06:28.25 | raster | aaah |
06:28.34 | raster | but as such the gta01 and 02 are fairly powerful |
06:28.49 | raster | i still think they are a match for a pentium-300 |
06:29.54 | SpeedEvil | For every app I've tried (CPU bound) apart from that one - the neo is significantly slower. |
06:30.49 | raster | you may have been throttled |
06:30.52 | SpeedEvil | It is moderately to a fair bit faster than my P100 in some limited tests |
06:31.03 | raster | cat /proc/acpi/.... |
06:31.04 | raster | and see |
06:31.09 | SpeedEvil | (the P100 laptop has lots its structural integrity) |
06:31.45 | SpeedEvil | It wasn't |
06:32.10 | raster | th only thing it could be is an abysmal video bus on your laptop |
06:32.22 | raster | so copies to the screen are just incredibly slow |
06:33.56 | SpeedEvil | dunno. Anyway - I'm going back to datasheet reading :/ |
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06:34.08 | raster | heheheh |
06:35.56 | SpeedEvil | Thanks for all the work on the 02 :) |
06:36.30 | raster | np |
06:36.37 | raster | working on it |
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07:30.31 | SpeedEvil | ras: latest run gives 36 - must have been throttled |
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08:09.03 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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08:19.24 | TRIsoft | morning |
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09:14.44 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3876 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (4 files in 4 dirs): gsmd: add 'lgsm_open_n_get' to retrieve the current country code (Sean Chiang) |
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09:48.16 | aspire | hello |
09:49.04 | aspire | is any one here developing on a ubuntu OS? |
09:57.03 | aspire | is any one here? |
09:58.22 | cjb_ie | i'm awake, and an ubuntu user, but not an OM dev :) |
09:58.27 | Field | aspire: maybe someone can help you without developing on a ubuntu OS? how can we help you |
09:59.47 | aspire | right |
09:59.58 | aspire | am trying to setup my environment |
10:00.16 | aspire | and got to step 4 |
10:00.22 | aspire | but this does not seem to work |
10:00.27 | aspire | make openmoko-devel-image |
10:01.00 | aspire | have found this for ubuntu as a solution, work around |
10:01.07 | aspire | Check that /bin/sh (ls -l /bin/sh) is not symbolically linked to dash. "dash" is a POSIX compliant shell that is much smaller than "bash" -- however some broken shell scripts still make use of bash extensions while calling into /bin/sh. |
10:01.18 | aspire | but that does not seem to work |
10:01.31 | aspire | To work around this issue: |
10:01.31 | aspire | <PROTECTED> |
10:02.15 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3877 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-bt-fixes.patch: |
10:02.15 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Bring back initialization of BT power and enable for GTA02. |
10:02.15 | CIA-15 | openmoko: gta02-bt-fixes.patch:" |
10:02.15 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - arch/arm/plat-s3c24xx/neo1973_pm_bt.c (gta01_bt_probe): disable LDO and |
10:02.15 | CIA-15 | openmoko: assert reset also for GTA02 |
10:03.20 | aspire | what can I do to start building? |
10:05.00 | aspire | make openmoko-devel-image |
10:05.01 | aspire | [ -e stamps/patches ] || \ |
10:05.01 | aspire | <PROTECTED> |
10:05.07 | aspire | make: *** [stamps/patches] Error 127 |
10:06.46 | aspire | Field: is there any thing you can tell me about this? |
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10:12.12 | Field | aspire: hm - I'm sorry, no. But if I find the time..I'll try this out this evening. |
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10:15.11 | XorA | ljp: ping |
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10:59.49 | zedstar | http://www.thenewfreedom.net/wp/2008/01/16/richard-stallman-cranking-dat-soulja-boy/ |
11:00.26 | zedstar | opps wrong window...funny tho |
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11:04.57 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3878 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
11:04.57 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-listener.c: (moko_listener_on_network_number): |
11:04.57 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-listener.h: |
11:04.57 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Add on_network_number for new lgsm_oper_n_get function |
11:04.57 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (retry_oper_get), |
11:05.01 | CIA-15 | openmoko: (retry_opern_get), (stop_retrying), (on_network_registered), |
11:05.03 | CIA-15 | openmoko: (on_network_number), (listener_interface_init), (net_msghandler), |
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11:28.16 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3879 10/trunk/src/target/ipkg/ (106 files in 4 dirs): * Rename ipkg to opkg |
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11:30.17 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3880 10/trunk/src/target/ (156 files in 5 dirs): * Rename top level ipkg directory to opkg |
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12:11.46 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3881 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-machtypes.patch): |
12:11.46 | CIA-15 | openmoko: uboot-machtypes.patch no longer required since upstream u-boot has now picked |
12:11.46 | CIA-15 | openmoko: up a much more recent machine type file |
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12:21.06 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3882 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-memory/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
12:21.06 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * AUTHORS: |
12:21.06 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * autogen.sh: |
12:21.06 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
12:21.06 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: |
12:21.08 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/openmoko-panel-memory.c: (blink_idle), (memory_full_cb), |
12:21.10 | CIA-15 | openmoko: (mb_panel_applet_create): |
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13:15.19 | mjr | muhahahaa |
13:15.41 | mjr | both my XO and my 8GB microSD arrived today (the latter for the Neo, of course; got a 16GB standard-size SD for the XO :) |
13:16.16 | Stephmw | cool timing ;) |
13:16.49 | mjr | yes, time to tinker on the weekend |
13:16.57 | jorgenpt | XO? |
13:17.04 | mjr | the OLPC laptop |
13:17.18 | Stephmw | I'll give Android on my Zaurus a go, see what breaks ;) |
13:17.44 | mjr | now that I've storage space for my neo, a question: |
13:18.30 | mjr | haven't followed the QVGA thingy that closely, is QVGA support in the main tree or can one get some patches somewhere? :) |
13:18.40 | jorgenpt | Android runtime released, Stephmw? |
13:19.46 | Stephmw | jorgenpt: naah, someone just hacked their image for the Zaurus in december |
13:20.18 | jorgenpt | What image? |
13:20.57 | Stephmw | looking for the link ;) |
13:21.14 | jorgenpt | Ah, the emu image? |
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13:21.50 | Stephmw | yeah, http://euedge.com/blog/2007/12/06/google-android-runs-on-sharp-zaurus-sl-c760/ |
13:22.00 | kristian-m | Stephmw which zaurus do you have? |
13:23.35 | Stephmw | the 860 |
13:25.34 | xcasex | i cant believe there's not been a cool hack w. or using the motorola f3 |
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13:30.56 | kristian-m | Stephmw wow, i envy you |
13:33.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3883 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/gta02-bt-fixes.patch: |
13:33.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Reversed sanity check cause PCF50633 driver to BUG. |
13:33.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: gta02-bt-fixes.patch: |
13:33.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - drivers/i2c/chips/pcf50633.c (pcf50633_ena_voltage): fail if we don't have a |
13:33.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: valid register, not if we do |
13:34.07 | Stephmw | kristian-m: I bought it used ;) which reminds me... I need to get a new battery as this one doesn't hold a charge |
13:35.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3884 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/opkg_download.c: opkg: fix progress bar |
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13:36.51 | kristian-m | Stephmw batteries are the only thing i could get for this deveice in germany :( |
13:41.47 | *** join/#openmoko waldt (n=WP-Gast@77-56-70-119.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
13:41.52 | waldt | OPENMOKO |
13:42.30 | kristian-m | hi waldt :-) |
13:42.38 | waldt | hi |
13:45.12 | waldt | poor kristian-m |
13:47.26 | zash | ^^ |
13:47.44 | waldt | why |
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13:48.23 | zash | ASS |
13:48.38 | waldt | poor Zash |
13:48.59 | zash | SLASHIGNORE |
13:49.08 | *** join/#openmoko Julietta2 (n=Julietta@85.106.147.99) |
13:49.10 | Julietta2 | hi all ! There is a new forum called Exotics Forum and it has free membership option ! Exotics Adult Forum ::: http://exotics.heavenforum.com/index.htm !... |
13:49.13 | *** part/#openmoko Julietta2 (n=Julietta@85.106.147.99) |
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13:49.20 | zash | hm, tourettes + irc |
13:49.37 | waldt | yes, you are |
13:51.13 | XorA | oooh, neoporn.com |
13:51.18 | waldt | why |
13:51.35 | zash | oh? |
13:51.56 | zash | bah :( linkfarm |
13:52.01 | waldt | why |
13:52.04 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r45 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/data/gsm0710muxd: exec on |
13:52.21 | waldt | why |
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13:56.24 | *** join/#openmoko magellan (n=c6fd1776@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-74932525950f224c) |
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14:04.52 | magellan | using toolchain, you have to do some setup of the enviroment before starting, namely: source /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env if you want to go back to programing for your own computer, how do you undo these changes |
14:05.03 | magellan | are they refreshed automatically? |
14:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
14:07.05 | magellan | by the way, Hi All! |
14:08.36 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
14:14.26 | _Krieger_ | magellan, maybe source /etc/profile ? |
14:16.01 | magellan | I wouldn't know. I have been making an app on my lappy and am ready to try it out on the device. but I want to continue development on the lappy once I try it on the neo |
14:16.56 | kristian-m | magellan just open an other shell for your locaal build |
14:17.17 | kristian-m | source is only setting the environment in the current shell |
14:17.18 | magellan | so the changes are local to the shell |
14:17.22 | kristian-m | ack |
14:17.29 | magellan | ok great, thanks |
14:17.34 | kristian-m | have fun |
14:24.28 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3885 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (libopkg.h opkg_download.c): opkg: add a download progress callback hook to libopkg |
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14:58.02 | DENTiST | selam |
15:04.06 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3886 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/opkg_download.c: * Add proxy username/password support |
15:09.08 | magellan | is anyone haveing build problems out of openmoko-terminal2? I have to remove if from my build to get the moko makefile to do a full build. the probem is that the fetch from the server fails. how can I get a copy of the app so it doesn't have to go to the server? |
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15:24.14 | wurp2 | Does anyone have experience with arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy' while building mokomakefile? |
15:24.42 | wurp2 | I'm having a hard time understanding how the build could pass an invalid argument to an exe that same build created |
15:24.56 | wurp2 | Especially an exe I would expect to be stable, like 'as' |
15:25.19 | SpeedEvil | Someone being an ashat. |
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15:35.19 | zedstar | so speedevil wanted to chat some more about cpu cycles/battery life thing.... |
15:36.35 | zedstar | say u have a app which runs continually processing say some xml and u have same app running but using some less intensive method....so overall less cpu cycles...would it be possible to show differences in battery life say on neo now with no power management |
15:36.52 | zedstar | or insignificant difference |
15:37.54 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: less significant. |
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15:38.13 | SpeedEvil | Idle-maximum is only 75% or so |
15:38.38 | *** part/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust61.tnt1.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
15:38.50 | SpeedEvil | Once clock frequency stuff goes in, it gets _much_ more significant - like maybe 10% |
15:39.18 | zedstar | reason im curious is ive heard mention at mobile events of the impact of say java script etc on battery life |
15:39.27 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@24.154.118.23) |
15:39.54 | SpeedEvil | Basically - once PM is properly implemented, battery life scales much more accurately to CPU usage |
15:40.14 | zedstar | ok right so need that working for this kind of study |
15:40.15 | SpeedEvil | Something like CPU% active*0.9 + 10% |
15:40.36 | SpeedEvil | so at 0% CPU it's 10% battery use, 50%, 45% battery use |
15:40.41 | mickeyl | magellan: _how_ does the fetch at the server fails? |
15:41.01 | mickeyl | magellan: you may want to try bumping your SRCREV |
15:41.17 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: There is little impact going from 0-3% in your code - but 10-30% may make a perceptible difference. |
15:42.25 | zedstar | so let me try and understand this... unless the app is hitting up to a certain % of overall cpu it is not gonna be easy to spot difference? |
15:42.26 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
15:42.54 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: yes - as there is 10% or so power used even at idle. |
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15:43.23 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: so going from 1-2% CPU use may be the difference between 11% and 12% of maximum battery use |
15:45.01 | zedstar | <PROTECTED> |
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15:46.31 | zedstar | do u remember the engergiser bunny adverts.....would like to see that on mobile with different kinds of intensive processing |
15:46.31 | SpeedEvil | There is little really complex in this. Unless you can suspend-RAM between user interactions - and turn the screen off - CPU idle is always going to be a large slice of power at low speeds. |
15:46.31 | SpeedEvil | low loads |
15:46.44 | zedstar | ok can assume screen is off |
15:46.59 | zedstar | cos this is something continually in background lets say |
15:47.21 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management may be of use |
15:48.51 | zedstar | thanks will go through that also......im just wondering if talk about different network protocol processing techniques on mobile etc is hype |
15:49.18 | zedstar | in relation to battery i mean |
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15:49.33 | SpeedEvil | It's irrelevant |
15:49.50 | SpeedEvil | at the speeds involved, tcp/ip handling by the kernel at least is in the noise |
15:50.01 | SpeedEvil | even with 802.11g |
15:50.17 | SpeedEvil | If you mean lowest level protocol |
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15:51.03 | zedstar | no from higher up the stack....mallocing of memory for processing data of xml or whatever |
15:52.14 | SpeedEvil | For GSM, it's irrelevant, as the data rate is near zero |
15:52.38 | SpeedEvil | And unlesss you're especially stupid, you can't make that use apprecible CPU |
15:52.58 | SpeedEvil | The CPU inn the GTA01/freerunner is actually quite fast. |
15:53.20 | SpeedEvil | It stomps all over PCs of 10 years ago. |
15:53.29 | zedstar | yeh! |
15:54.45 | zedstar | a study also then is to show talk of this is irrelevant within context |
15:54.48 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
15:55.37 | SpeedEvil | Broadly - with even semi-optimised native code, you shouldn't have problems. |
15:55.39 | torpor | hey guys |
15:55.55 | torpor | kristian-m: is there a new version of settingsgui around? |
15:56.08 | torpor | i've tried the 0.8 beta but it just hangs and goes nowhere on the 'init' screen .. |
15:56.22 | SpeedEvil | Once you get to the trend today of increasing layers of abstraction and multiple overlaid languages and protocols with lots of layers of conversionn to go fromm network - user - there may be a problem |
15:56.43 | zedstar | ok yeh this is what i am interesting in seeing |
15:57.01 | zedstar | wherre this becomes noticable etc |
15:57.09 | SpeedEvil | For example. XML. |
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15:57.25 | SpeedEvil | It's fine when you're parsing a ten element list. |
15:57.28 | zedstar | yeh well exactly xml actually compared to a more light weight approach |
15:57.58 | SpeedEvil | If as some apps do you use it as a storage format that causes problems in many ways. |
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15:58.29 | zedstar | yeh....im quite interesting in seeing how say xml compares to say s-expressions in this context |
15:58.31 | SpeedEvil | A) It's large - so you need a decompression stage first - or alternatively get hit by slow access speeds typical on mobiles. |
15:59.06 | SpeedEvil | B) The format is variable and not trivially parsed taking in all the edge cases. This meeans it's slow. |
15:59.39 | zedstar | i did some studies compressing xml with gzip and that was poor also |
15:59.41 | SpeedEvil | C) Once yyou've parsed it, you often havve to convert tthe dataa into other formatss from its 'native' xml represeentation. |
15:59.54 | SpeedEvil | This alsso takes time. |
16:00.14 | SpeedEvil | Versus skipping the whole lot, and using a binary or simplle flat-text savefile |
16:00.25 | zedstar | yeh most people dont take c) into account.... s-expressions are in built in languages like lisp and scheme for example |
16:01.18 | XorA | for embedded ASN.1 is far more suitable than XML and 90% of the time you can manipulate the values directly in memory |
16:01.19 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_- (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
16:01.23 | zedstar | ive costed some stuff with PAYG with xml etc compared to other stuff but what i havent done is examined CPU issues |
16:01.40 | SpeedEvil | As a horribly overbroad statement, you shouldn't be coding anything on a mobile platform if you don't know how many machine cycles your next line of code will take. |
16:02.18 | zedstar | i actually use the ASN.1 approach and use packed encoding rules myself |
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16:02.31 | zedstar | but it is not easy for developers compared to xml etc |
16:02.42 | XorA | zedstar: then they should learn to count :-) |
16:02.58 | zedstar | lol XorA yeh |
16:03.01 | SpeedEvil | s/on.*form// |
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16:04.54 | zedstar | a big issue with XML stuff if u on GPRS is the extra packets over very poor latency |
16:04.55 | zedstar | not good |
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16:05.41 | zedstar | i am racking up ping times in seconds on my vodafone payg frequently |
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16:19.34 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: re cycles per line of code, I think that's a pretty excessive stance to take for app code |
16:20.00 | wurp2 | If you're spending time thinking about # of cycles taken on a machine that's running 200 million cycles per second, you're wasting time |
16:20.03 | cjb_ie | wurp2: depends on the app |
16:20.31 | SpeedEvil | I don't mean absolute cycles - I mean orders of magnitude. |
16:20.39 | wurp2 | cjb_ie: Sure, if it's low level 3d rendering code, or encoding/decoding mp3s |
16:20.48 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: I'll certainly buy that |
16:21.14 | SpeedEvil | 'printf takes 1000 cycles' or 'xmlparsemegabyte takes a hundred million' |
16:21.35 | wurp2 | There is the danger in high level languages of naively issuing a 'objTree = xmlParser.loadFrom(somefile)' and not realizing what that entails |
16:21.50 | wurp2 | heh |
16:21.54 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
16:22.13 | SpeedEvil | A simple line of code can often result in an explosion of recursion into libraries. |
16:22.20 | wurp2 | very true |
16:22.43 | SpeedEvil | When in some cases, it can be done easily in one or two lines of lower-level code with no significant loss of readability, portability. |
16:22.52 | wurp2 | agreed |
16:23.04 | wurp2 | especially in the xml vs binary formatted file case |
16:23.13 | SpeedEvil | yeah. Or even text vs xml |
16:23.53 | zedstar | there is definitely a trend to gloss over all this now......i would just like to see some concrete figures for impact on things like the network, battery life etc |
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16:25.19 | kdean06 | I was musing on that generally in my blog yesterday, the sheer amount of energy (and waste) used due to inefficient code and the cascading effect it has... Embedded certainly makes you look at that much more. |
16:26.01 | zedstar | be interesting to see how the dumbing down approach of android has on this as well |
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16:35.13 | zedstar | whats the url of your blog kdean06? any openmoko stuff in it? i like reading openmoko blog stuff me |
16:36.40 | kdean06 | I've only had my Neo for a few days and I'm not (much of) a programmer so there's nothing technical. I've got a pretty wordy account of my first day with the Neo (including pictures). |
16:36.56 | kdean06 | My site is http://www.monochromementality.com/ |
16:37.18 | kdean06 | The most current blog post, and the one prior to it, are OpenMoko/Neo related. |
16:39.05 | zedstar | thanks |
16:39.32 | kdean06 | No problem. |
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17:02.17 | nwps | i just installed todays devel-image; is there any solution to this: "alsactl: load_state:1327: No soundcards found..." ? http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmheadset.working.state worked with septembers image, but not todays. |
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17:12.34 | El_Salvador | new package system in om? |
17:12.38 | El_Salvador | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Opkg |
17:13.25 | kdean06 | I noticed the commit, I forgot to check up on it. |
17:13.44 | kdean06 | I think it's just a re-name to avoid confusion, but thanks for the reminder. :) |
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17:14.07 | El_Salvador | :) |
17:14.19 | kdean06 | Oh, no, there are some actual improvements. Cool. |
17:14.29 | El_Salvador | :O |
17:14.33 | El_Salvador | great |
17:15.26 | kdean06 | So, is this official or just a proof-of-concept thing? Will Opkg be replacing ipkg as OpenMoko's package manager and how will that affect the toolchain |
17:16.02 | mickeyl | OM Inc. is trying to put some fresh blood into the stale ipkg |
17:16.15 | mickeyl | subtle changes first |
17:16.19 | kdean06 | Makes sense. :) |
17:16.21 | mickeyl | more radical things later |
17:16.28 | kdean06 | opkg makes more sense from a branding perspective too. |
17:16.49 | El_Salvador | thanks :) |
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17:19.45 | nwps | please, anyone have any idea how to get the soundcard working? everything else is finally working perfectly, except sound. :/ |
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17:34.15 | tonyg | nwps, have you tried alsactl -f /etc/alsa/stereoout.state restore ? |
17:34.40 | tonyg | there are other *.state files that correspond to different routes for getting sound into and out of the system in /etc, too. |
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17:37.17 | nwps | tonyg: yeah, i tried that. it gives me "No soundcards found". also: |
17:37.18 | nwps | root@fic-gta01:/etc$ cat /proc/asound/cards |
17:37.18 | nwps | --- no soundcards --- |
17:40.14 | tonyg | eep. that's scary, nwps. |
17:40.20 | tonyg | I'll try it on mine |
17:41.31 | tonyg | root@fic-gta01:~$ cat /proc/asound/cards |
17:41.31 | tonyg | <PROTECTED> |
17:41.31 | tonyg | <PROTECTED> |
17:41.46 | tonyg | what kernel are you running? |
17:41.47 | tonyg | mine is: |
17:41.52 | tonyg | Linux fic-gta01 2.6.22.5-moko11 #1 PREEMPT Sat Dec 1 03:40:58 CET 2007 armv4tl unknown |
17:41.58 | tonyg | (uname -a) |
17:42.18 | nwps | exactly the same. |
17:42.48 | nwps | Linux fic-gta01 2.6.22.5-moko11 #1 PREEMPT Fri Jan 18 09:32:57 GMT 2008 armv4tl unknown |
17:43.21 | nwps | i guess there's something broken with the latest dev-image / rootfs? |
17:43.50 | SpeedEvil | Some others have reported that too |
17:43.53 | tonyg | Perhaps. You could try an older kernel. |
17:43.57 | SpeedEvil | In recent days |
17:44.07 | SpeedEvil | Maybe the last week? |
17:44.21 | tonyg | ftr, the dec 1 kernel I'm running has been usably stable for me |
17:45.38 | kdean06 | The only problems I've had that are viable to me were in today's snapshot, actually. |
17:46.40 | nwps | can you name a developer i should maybe contact, so we could get this fixed? |
17:47.27 | nwps | unless they already know about this. |
17:48.29 | tonyg | nwps, do you have any dmesg output? |
17:48.36 | tonyg | ... relevant to the problem, I mean |
17:50.46 | nwps | wait a second and i'll check.. |
17:53.56 | nwps | http://upload.nwps.ws/files/openmoko-dmesg.txt |
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17:55.12 | tonyg | nwps, my untrained eyes can't see anything obvious there :/ |
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17:56.38 | mickeyl | check whether your modules match |
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17:59.25 | nwps | mickeyl: sorry, what do you mean by that? |
18:00.23 | summatusmentis | is it remotely feasible that fic would release a cdma phone? |
18:00.51 | mickeyl | summatusmentis: very unlikely |
18:00.57 | mickeyl | nwps: check /lib/modules/<...> |
18:01.04 | mickeyl | perhaps your installed modules don't match your kernel version |
18:01.13 | mickeyl | at least that's what I would read out from the dmesg |
18:01.23 | mickeyl | since there are so many unresolved symbols |
18:01.30 | summatusmentis | mickeyl: ok, so then the only way that'd happen would be to hack a current cdma phone |
18:01.45 | mickeyl | i'm afraid so, yes |
18:01.48 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-10-180.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
18:01.53 | mickeyl | i can't comment on the strategy, of course |
18:01.57 | summatusmentis | is OM running on any that we know of? |
18:01.59 | mickeyl | but as an insider, i'd say it's unlikely at this point |
18:02.14 | summatusmentis | ok, bummer |
18:02.54 | *** part/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
18:03.02 | SpeedEvil | As an outsider - the companies control access to the CDMA market in ways that just aren't there in the GSM one. Anyone at all can make a GSM phone (barring appropriate RF authority licensing issues) |
18:03.28 | SpeedEvil | All you then need to do is to plug your SIM into your new phone. |
18:03.34 | nwps | mickeyl: i have only /lib/modules/2.6.22.5-moko11/ there. |
18:03.43 | summatusmentis | yeah, I figured that might be the barrier. Although verizon is opening up it's network soon |
18:03.52 | mickeyl | nwps: hmm, strange. then i'd advise to use an earlier version |
18:04.04 | mickeyl | the daily builds are not tested |
18:04.14 | mickeyl | you should only use them if you're _really_ into bleeding edge |
18:04.19 | SpeedEvil | For CDMA, the phone is per-network, and not authorised in the same way - the SIM is integral to the phone. It's not possible to make a phone and use it on a CDMA network without permission |
18:04.21 | mickeyl | and can fix problems |
18:05.46 | summatusmentis | so then I should probably just switch providers assuming I want to use OM |
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18:05.59 | mickeyl | yeah |
18:06.00 | mickeyl | go gsm |
18:06.01 | mickeyl | :) |
18:06.10 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: or pick a GSM phone if your existing provider does thart. |
18:06.17 | mjr | 'ndeed |
18:06.24 | SpeedEvil | However, at the moment the GTA01 will not work on 850Mhz - so beware of that |
18:06.44 | mickeyl | true |
18:06.48 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: no, my existing provider is cdma, and cdma works best in the places I'll be 90% of the time |
18:07.07 | mickeyl | you'd have to wait for the FreeRunner |
18:07.13 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: some do both as I understand it. |
18:07.30 | summatusmentis | some providers do both? |
18:07.38 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: yes |
18:07.43 | anrp | at&t/cingular has a nasty grandfathered mix |
18:07.55 | kdean06 | summatusmentis, Verizon is indeed migrating to a GSM based network, but last I knew they've never actually said the move was to actually be more open - they could still find ways to restrict people on their networks. |
18:08.17 | mwester | although they AT&T is really only growing the GSM part of their (patchwork) network. |
18:08.23 | summatusmentis | kdean06: they just came out and said they'll be allowing 3rd party devices on their network, in 08 |
18:08.42 | summatusmentis | I was under the impression that vzw was all cdma |
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18:09.54 | kdean06 | Open works the otehr way too. :) Will they stop offering their "Verizon Exlcusive" phones? Will all plan options be there for "3rd party" phones that support them? That has yet to be seen. I really DO hope they're opening, but Verizon is one of the most restrictive companies I've ever dealt with and I can't easily fathom such a dramatic change. |
18:10.10 | nwps | mickeyl: can i use an older kernel with todays root filesystem? |
18:10.28 | mickeyl | nwps: i don't know that |
18:10.30 | summatusmentis | kdean06: agreed, but it's at least an option |
18:10.37 | mickeyl | i'm not building these files |
18:10.45 | mickeyl | but generally, due to changes in defconfig |
18:10.51 | summatusmentis | kdean06: a quick google shows that vzw will be moving to gsm for 4g network |
18:10.55 | mickeyl | matching kernel and rootfs always sounds like a good thing |
18:11.03 | summatusmentis | freerunner doesn't support 3g, let alone 4g |
18:12.18 | maito | there's no 4g networks deployed anywhere yet? |
18:12.35 | maito | only 3,5, hsdpa 7.2Mbps or hsupa? |
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18:13.30 | summatusmentis | maito: I don't know if there are or not, but my point is, if I wanted to go to verizon because I wanted a gsm provider, I'd be waiting quite a while to use a neo product, you know? |
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18:33.45 | playya | anyone knows if there is any gsm provider in germany which is going to offer a openmoko compatible phone? |
18:34.36 | SpeedEvil | Unlikely any |
18:34.57 | XorA|gone | depends if you wish to remove wm6 from t-mobiles phones :-) |
18:34.58 | SpeedEvil | I personally would be astonished at any compatible phones coming out before christmas 2009. |
18:37.48 | SpeedEvil | Or rather. |
18:38.03 | SpeedEvil | Phones with openmoko installed on them and sold in the shops as any other phone. |
18:39.52 | playya | maybe i can scrounge a flasher for nokia devices. but do i really want to buy any nokia mobiles again? |
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18:44.17 | PBeck | hoi |
18:44.31 | playya | hoi |
18:45.13 | PBeck | hoi playya :) |
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18:53.30 | magellan | can someone help me with this problem => http://pastebin.com/d458b42a3 |
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18:57.11 | anrp | mmm colors |
18:58.43 | playya | anrp, abused some lsd. or why do you taste colors? |
19:02.53 | Marcel_M | magellan: you can grab the source from here http://celtune.morb-design.com/openmoko-terminal2_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.OM-2007.2.applications_3542_.tar.gz |
19:02.54 | nwps | mickeyl: i got it work! whee! |
19:04.08 | nwps | to work, even. |
19:04.23 | mickeyl | nwps: excellent. how? |
19:04.24 | nwps | i downloaded modules-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3874-r13-neo1973.tgz, unpacked it to /media/card and copied lib/modules/2.6.22.5-moko11/kernel/sound to /lib/modules/ |
19:04.30 | *** join/#openmoko ewon (n=ewan@skynet.skynet.ie) |
19:04.32 | mickeyl | good. |
19:04.34 | mickeyl | module mismatch then |
19:04.36 | mickeyl | as i expected |
19:04.44 | biberao | how much is openmoko? |
19:04.58 | biberao | when do you start offering a cellphone like that |
19:05.03 | biberao | in poor countries? |
19:05.03 | biberao | :P |
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19:09.01 | biberao | hihih |
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19:18.02 | wurp2 | biberao: $300 for neo1973 GTA01 phone |
19:18.11 | wurp2 | OpenMoko is free and Free |
19:18.25 | wurp2 | But you need compatible hardware to get an use out of the openmoko free software |
19:18.56 | biberao | wurp2 ya |
19:19.00 | biberao | i meant the phone |
19:19.00 | biberao | :P |
19:19.03 | wurp2 | And the best hardware is the FIC phone, which is $300. And of course that's not consumer ready; it's for ppl who want to hack. |
19:19.13 | biberao | distribution to the poor countries |
19:19.14 | biberao | lol |
19:19.29 | biberao | ok im joking |
19:19.30 | biberao | :P |
19:19.33 | wurp2 | I think you'll have to wait 5 years for the phones to be $10 |
19:19.36 | wurp2 | :-) |
19:19.59 | biberao | ihhi |
19:20.07 | wurp2 | I think as long as you're never away from a charger for more than 4 hours at a time you can use the 01 as your primary phone |
19:20.40 | biberao | whats wrong with it? |
19:20.45 | ewon | 4 hours, christ on a bike |
19:20.50 | wurp2 | otherwise it really can't be a phone for you, just a toy that runs linux, and is a gps, and plays audio & video media, and as a mobile programming platform |
19:21.01 | wurp2 | power management software isn't done |
19:21.06 | biberao | ah i see |
19:21.16 | biberao | so why not doing whats needed first |
19:21.17 | biberao | :P? |
19:21.22 | wurp2 | And there are intermittently problems with phone calls |
19:21.26 | wurp2 | Well, they are |
19:21.42 | wurp2 | What's needed right now is the drivers for the '02 so they can validate the hardware and start producing the next model |
19:21.58 | wurp2 | I believe there's something coming soon for power management, though |
19:22.07 | anrp | "something"! |
19:22.20 | biberao | so what makes me buy a phone |
19:22.21 | anrp | as in "see that second battery we shipped you? use it" |
19:22.24 | biberao | that i need to charge everyday? |
19:22.25 | biberao | :p |
19:22.31 | wurp2 | It's more complicated than it sounds - you have to put all drivers in a compatible state before going into low power mode, then recover them properly |
19:22.40 | biberao | i see |
19:22.44 | biberao | wurp2 you're a developer too? |
19:22.51 | wurp2 | Uh, it is very clear on the site that the phone right now is for people who want to hack with it |
19:22.53 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@151.77.167.31) |
19:23.12 | biberao | so offer the phones |
19:23.12 | wurp2 | I am a developer, although not much of an openmoko developer yet |
19:23.12 | biberao | :P |
19:23.13 | biberao | Lo |
19:23.17 | biberao | :PP |
19:23.27 | wurp2 | I have only written a few little python programs on it |
19:23.39 | biberao | my sis |
19:23.43 | biberao | hates snakes |
19:23.43 | biberao | .P |
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19:28.41 | biberao | im enjoying be here |
19:28.47 | biberao | this network has a lot of developers |
19:28.47 | biberao | .p |
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20:09.48 | wurp2 | Restarting my mokomake from scratch (yet again) |
20:10.12 | wurp2 | I hacked a little script to get past the problems with the *-as exe not understanding -Qy |
20:10.47 | wurp2 | but apparently the *-as exe was screwed up way more than just that, because then I get a ton of error messages indicating that *-as doesn't understand any of the assembler code it's being sent |
20:12.39 | nwps | any way to debug gprs connection failing. all i'm getting is: "Connect script failed"? |
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20:14.55 | wurp2 | Sorry, I have no idea |
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20:19.53 | magellan | Marcel_M: you sent me a message a few hours back and It helped and I am back up and running. I wanted to say thanks even though its a bit late |
20:22.44 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953A8DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
20:25.07 | Marcel_M | magellan: np, nice to see it helps |
20:25.34 | nwps | http://www.flickr.com/photos/nwps/2201113153/ :) |
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20:38.14 | wurp2 | nwps: What was your connection script problem? |
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20:52.59 | nwps | wurp2: didn't actually solve it. i used usbnet to take that picture. :( |
20:54.28 | wurp2 | :-( |
20:54.35 | biberao | back |
20:54.37 | wurp2 | I didn't notice the cord in the pic |
20:54.48 | nwps | it was unplugged. :D |
20:54.53 | zash_ | haha |
20:54.56 | wurp2 | nwps: I actually beat on bluetooth for a while before I finally gave up |
20:54.57 | wurp2 | hah |
20:55.03 | wurp2 | bluetooth networking |
20:55.04 | magellan | Marcel_M: what are you using your neo to do? |
20:55.33 | wurp2 | I could get local networking going, and I think at one point I even had routing going, but I never got DNS up |
20:55.51 | wurp2 | I started getting fancy & broke my local networking before I got any farther |
20:56.34 | maito | what do you need a dns server for? isnt there a /etc/resolv.conf? |
20:56.42 | biberao | sagem my411x sucks? |
20:56.55 | SpeedEvil | the /etc/resolv.conf is set to 192.168.0.202 |
20:56.57 | SpeedEvil | the /etc/resolv.conf is set to 192.168.0.200 |
20:57.15 | maito | for example 4.2.2.2 is free and open :P |
20:57.35 | wurp2 | I didn't mean a dns server, I mean I never got /etc/resolve.conf with the right value while I had the rest of it working |
20:57.44 | wurp2 | I seemed to lose connections very frequently |
21:03.09 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.193.51) |
21:03.21 | Marcel_M | magellan: right now not much (mostly routing), ill think the gta01 will become my car-cp (routing, musik,gsm) when the freerunner is out |
21:04.00 | CVirus | What's this "gold" port on the right side of the Neo1973 ? |
21:04.08 | Vegar | GPS antenna |
21:04.18 | kdean06 | The USB icon on the taskbar, does that incicate that a USB connection is plugged in or does it indicate that USB networking is up? I'm working on some documentation but i'm not sure exactly what that signifies. :) |
21:04.20 | borg_ | right, you can put a gps antenna in there |
21:04.31 | CVirus | to amplify the GPS signal ? |
21:04.37 | borg_ | yes |
21:04.40 | SpeedEvil | CVirus: yes |
21:04.44 | CVirus | I see |
21:04.46 | CVirus | thanks alot |
21:04.47 | borg_ | and it really is a huge improvemend if you do it |
21:04.48 | SpeedEvil | CVirus: or to put it in a better place |
21:06.18 | borg_ | CVirus: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_as_radio_replacement |
21:06.24 | borg_ | there is a gps antenna in use ;) |
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21:07.03 | CVirus | borg_: thanks |
21:07.14 | borg_ | http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/c/c0/Neo_golf2_1.jpg |
21:07.20 | borg_ | 137 fixes, no fails |
21:07.24 | borg_ | thats really nice :) |
21:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@sunbeam.ipv6.gnumonks.org) |
21:09.31 | maito | borg_: that is quite nice |
21:09.45 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@adsl-dyn240.91-127-61.t-com.sk) |
21:10.03 | borg_ | i used this it to find the 24c3 in berlin with navit :) works quite nice |
21:10.14 | borg_ | s/it// |
21:11.15 | LarstiQ | borg_: heh, not that that is hard to do once you hit the Alexanderplatz ;) |
21:11.29 | borg_ | right |
21:12.02 | borg_ | i had some problems to find a parking space after finding the congress center |
21:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@64.213.69.17) |
21:12.10 | borg_ | and the neo couldn help me there either ;) |
21:12.23 | LarstiQ | ah hmm no, I tend to come by train. |
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21:28.13 | wurp2 | Agh, I just found out my phone wasn't shipped until Tuesday night, and isn't expected here until Monday :-( |
21:28.17 | biberao | bye gtg |
21:28.23 | biberao | take care |
21:28.44 | kdean06 | Weekend shipping SUCKS. |
21:28.49 | kdean06 | I feel your pain. |
21:29.24 | biberao | you should take a look at france |
21:29.26 | biberao | shipping |
21:29.26 | biberao | :P |
21:29.31 | biberao | i got two digital cameras |
21:29.34 | biberao | for de price of one |
21:29.38 | biberao | two equal |
21:29.38 | biberao | :P |
21:33.16 | starox | Did you had problem with your credit-card ? Mine is refused, my bank can't help me and openmoko sale don't answer :'( |
21:42.01 | wurp2 | starox: nope |
21:42.29 | starox | Oh YES ! http://www.pulster.eu/ have decreased their price, hope I'll be more lucky with them :) |
21:44.45 | wurp2 | It's very weird to see the neo in a product line up like it was any other phone :-) |
21:44.49 | starox | wurp2: I don't understand why my mastercard is refused, there is no reason. I made 4 tries to make sure and absolutely certain I don't had make typo. I'm unlucky, that's all |
21:45.09 | LarstiQ | starox: could be a couple of reasons. |
21:45.14 | wurp2 | I notice also that they say Freerunner w/ sw due in early summer 2008 |
21:45.23 | wurp2 | which I don't think I believe |
21:45.31 | LarstiQ | starox: in my case it's usually different spelling of my name, or address the card is registered to. |
21:45.40 | SpeedEvil | starox: note however that the shipping is less than $100 now |
21:45.49 | SpeedEvil | $50 is typ |
21:46.09 | starox | 80$ :) on openmoko for france |
21:46.15 | SpeedEvil | k |
21:46.51 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
21:46.52 | starox | LarstiQ: I check that, I copy exactly what was written on my card including "mr" |
21:46.54 | SpeedEvil | that may be of use |
21:47.13 | SpeedEvil | FICs 'warranty' would be normally illegal herer |
21:47.34 | starox | SpeedEvil: I think the 2 years warranty is in the european law |
21:48.04 | kdean06 | I find that kind of funny, actually. :P |
21:48.34 | starox | I'm not sure though, I notice german products had these 2 years warranty |
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21:52.46 | LarstiQ | starox: I forget the distinctions, but there is a basic level of warranty you have to offer and can not get out of. But anything extra you are free to do whatever you want. |
21:57.56 | nwps | http://buildhost.automated.it/screenshots/neo1973_011_main.jpg < is that qtopia? |
21:59.59 | univac | no |
22:01.18 | nwps | should i have the same settingsgui somewhere? i have latest kernel-image & rootfs, but can't find that. |
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22:03.03 | kdean06 | This is crazy, snapshots that worked without issue two days ago are crapping out on me today. :S |
22:03.31 | quicksand | nwps: settingsgui is optional -- you can build it or ipkg install it |
22:03.56 | nwps | quicksand: ah, thanks! |
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22:59.39 | kdean06 | QT is now GPLv3 |
22:59.52 | kdean06 | http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2008-01-18.1601592972 |
23:05.40 | wurp2 | kdean06: You have a working version of MokoMake? |
23:07.00 | kdean06 | Not any time recently. |
23:07.06 | wurp2 | :-( |
23:07.19 | wurp2 | I have built & rebuilt, and it always fails the same way |
23:07.44 | wurp2 | I hacked around it, but that exposed that the failure is much bigger than it first appears |
23:09.49 | wurp2 | Time to go home |
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