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| 02:54.48 | SpeedEvil | Has a datasheet for the LCD surfaced? |
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| 06:01.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1184 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net |
| 06:01.02 | cdbot2 | * * Month View for January 08 displays incorrect week numbers |
| 06:01.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1184 |
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| 06:19.02 | Atul_ | Hi, all Can I want to update my Openmoko build environment. Shall I update if It is ok to build ? |
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| 06:23.19 | Atul_ | , any Idea ? |
| 06:23.27 | Atul_ | CM, any Idea ? |
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| 06:43.19 | CIA-1 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3853 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/gsmd/usock.h src/gsmd/sms_pdu.c): gsmd: update sms pdu len and fix typos (Wang Yanke) |
| 06:54.32 | Atul_ | CIA-1 Are you working on gsmd ? If then I need your help |
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| 07:08.50 | rwhitby | Atul_: CIA-1 is a piece of software which mirrors commit messages into IRC channels |
| 07:09.25 | Atul_ | rwhitby, oh sorry i dont have idea new to irc |
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| 08:09.02 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:16.33 | hrw | morning |
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| 08:48.26 | emdete | can someone explain to me what ccache does? |
| 08:52.05 | XorA | emdete: caches the result of a compile |
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| 09:31.17 | emdete | XorA: shure.. but how/what? if i compile the same c-source again? |
| 09:31.39 | emdete | XorA: isn't that what make is for? to /not/ compile the same stuff again? |
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| 10:11.15 | Stephmw | good morning |
| 10:12.38 | dread | morning |
| 10:13.38 | maito | hello |
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| 10:44.27 | maroi | hi |
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| 10:55.00 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 11:10.06 | hrw | hi Mac |
| 11:10.23 | TRIsoft | hrw: Hi Marcin |
| 11:10.53 | torpor | hey guys |
| 11:11.00 | torpor | anyone know where to get the latest settingsGUI? |
| 11:11.05 | torpor | is it released yet? |
| 11:11.15 | torpor | i wanna use the BT pane .. |
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| 11:24.15 | torpor | never midn igot it |
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| 12:19.29 | kristian-m | hi |
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| 12:21.58 | kristian-m | torpor I am still working on it - though mickey has put a .bb of the beta to the oe repository - source is at: http://mput.de/~kristian/.openmoko/settingsgui-0.8-beta.tar.bz2 <-- bluetooth panel is still buggy |
| 12:22.33 | kristian-m | torpor i hope to release a tested version on thursday |
| 12:23.51 | jorgenpt | What're the power management problems with 2007.11? |
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| 13:35.10 | magellan | mickeyl: are you aroung? |
| 13:36.06 | mickeyl | kind of |
| 13:36.36 | magellan | mickeyl: did you make openmoko-terminal2? |
| 13:37.05 | mickeyl | yes |
| 13:37.42 | magellan | has it been removed from the build or is there just a server error |
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| 13:38.18 | magellan | I liked having it i in there but you have to remove it to get a build to run |
| 13:44.27 | mickeyl | builds fine here |
| 13:44.32 | mickeyl | is your tree up to date? |
| 13:48.27 | flexd | Err |
| 13:48.31 | flexd | does OM run X? |
| 13:48.47 | flexd | Someone is asking me, i have completely forgot everything :/ |
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| 13:49.02 | mwester | Yes |
| 13:56.23 | SpeedEvil | On the theme of X |
| 13:56.40 | SpeedEvil | has anyone tried different bit depths? |
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| 13:58.56 | techindian | hi |
| 13:59.16 | techindian | doubt rgding OE.. |
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| 13:59.52 | techindian | I have specified DEPENDS in bb file as DEPENDS = "eet-moko-host evas-moko-host ecore-moko-host embryo-moko-host edje-moko-host" |
| 14:00.32 | techindian | but when i do a build the dependencies are not built.. |
| 14:00.42 | techindian | any reasons for the same? |
| 14:01.52 | mickeyl | DEPENDS are built |
| 14:01.54 | mickeyl | but not packaged |
| 14:02.07 | mickeyl | only if you bitbake something that RDEPENDS on them |
| 14:02.12 | mickeyl | so either an image |
| 14:02.22 | mickeyl | or a metapackage |
| 14:02.32 | mickeyl | just try RDEPENDS instead of DEPENDS |
| 14:02.54 | techindian | build on DEPENDS are not at all called.. |
| 14:03.03 | techindian | will try it out.. |
| 14:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F62C92.versanet.de) |
| 14:05.50 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3855 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Move MokoAlsaVolumeButton/Control to phone-kit from dialer |
| 14:08.28 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:10.35 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r43 10/trunk/standards/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Phonebook.xml: otapi: add first sketch of org.freesmartphone.GSM.Phonebook |
| 14:10.52 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r44 10/trunk/standards/otapi/ (5 files): otapi: misc dbus interface changes/improvements |
| 14:11.13 | florian | mickeyl: I'm just pushing a bb for that modified gsmd with LiPS stuff. Please take a look and verify that it is not going to break libgsmd... |
| 14:11.28 | mickeyl | XorA should check this |
| 14:11.35 | mickeyl | he did the latest work on gsmd bb |
| 14:11.43 | florian | okay :) |
| 14:12.09 | florian | XorA: read that? :-) |
| 14:12.25 | XorA | that should apply to libgsmd-devel? |
| 14:18.33 | techindian | mickeyl: no sucess |
| 14:18.52 | mickeyl | hmm, strange |
| 14:18.54 | techindian | mickeyl: any reference on meta-package bb file? |
| 14:19.06 | mickeyl | e.g. have a look at files under meta/ and tasks/ |
| 14:19.19 | techindian | k.. |
| 14:19.20 | mickeyl | or, e.g. python/python-efl.bb |
| 14:20.57 | techindian | strange. my bb file is almost similar.. |
| 14:21.04 | techindian | let me check.. |
| 14:28.24 | XorA | florian: that .bb file is going to go horribly wrong |
| 14:29.10 | florian | XorA: ah too bad... i did not sped much time in that one. let me know what i should change... |
| 14:29.20 | XorA | florian: CONFLICT_NAME |
| 14:29.34 | XorA | florian: it can only take one argument |
| 14:29.46 | XorA | florian: and Ive no idea how to do a 3 way version |
| 14:30.06 | XorA | although I secretly suspect no-one uses libgsmd-devel anyway |
| 14:30.44 | florian | XorA: ah right i see... yes, that is going to blow up at some point |
| 14:33.10 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@179.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:33.28 | florian | XorA: sounds like a job for a virtual/gsmd |
| 14:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@81.80-202-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:34.44 | XorA | florian: I suspect nothing would go horribly wrong if we just removed all the CONFLICTS |
| 14:34.58 | XorA | florian: the packages naturally conflict by installing the same files |
| 14:35.25 | XorA | ah, but that breaks the RPROVIDES, hrmmmm |
| 14:36.01 | XorA | although we can assume that libgsmd-plugin does not provide libgsmd-devel-plugin |
| 14:36.18 | XorA | possibly |
| 14:39.21 | *** join/#openmoko rbs-tito (n=tito@88-107-116-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 14:42.20 | florian | We could make all three PROVIDE virtual/gsmd annd if we et the dependencies correctly and RPROVIDES everythign should be fine. |
| 14:43.34 | florian | XorA: That's true.. well these people have a good idea in mind and once it is properly integrated this LiPS API might be beneficial upstream. |
| 14:44.58 | XorA | florian: yeah, I was just trying to cut down the typing when I made the .inc file |
| 14:45.13 | mickeyl | hmm, florian, wasn't the plan to implement the LiPS API on top of the dbus service? |
| 14:45.55 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@ozone.rtvslo.si) |
| 14:46.23 | Sup3rkiddo | whats LiPs |
| 14:46.38 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.115.2) |
| 14:46.39 | XorA | Linux in Phones I think |
| 14:47.54 | florian | XorA: ok, then i'll wait before i try to touch it again |
| 14:48.04 | *** part/#openmoko unstable (i=unstable@tor/regular/sid) |
| 14:48.25 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053153020.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:48.53 | florian | mickeyl: yeah... but they hat this example implementation already and since we want to make st stuff usable asap that's a good step ahead. |
| 14:49.19 | florian | mickeyl: I have a reminder for a telco about that for this week :) |
| 14:49.19 | mickeyl | righto |
| 14:50.01 | florian | Sup3rkiddo, XorA: lipsforum.org that is |
| 14:50.27 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@32.60.107.139) |
| 14:50.51 | XorA | florian: ahah, right words used in wrong way :-D |
| 14:52.08 | XorA | lips-tick :-) |
| 14:52.26 | XorA | lips-lock |
| 14:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@32.60.107.139) |
| 14:53.13 | SpeedEvil | Anyone played with low colour depths in the fb/X server? |
| 14:55.06 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, the LCD connections to the LCD are not easily removable? |
| 14:55.18 | SpeedEvil | and replacable without damage that is |
| 14:55.25 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 14:56.43 | mickeyl | the LCD<->board connector is similar to the debug board one, just a bit smaller and more fragile |
| 14:56.53 | mickeyl | the toughest part is removing the display, since it's glued to the board |
| 14:56.55 | mickeyl | but possible |
| 14:57.15 | SpeedEvil | Ok - so that's I think a no - if I want to keep it working. |
| 14:57.32 | mickeyl | yes. i wouldn't do that to my sole neo |
| 14:58.07 | SpeedEvil | I'm doing related stuff - attaching a PSP display to an identical CPU. |
| 14:58.26 | SpeedEvil | Do you happen to know what sort of glue - for future reference - silicone? |
| 14:58.36 | mwester | sticky, I suspect. |
| 14:58.41 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 14:58.53 | XorA | my first couple of Neo were held together by gaffa tape |
| 14:59.42 | SpeedEvil | taoe++ |
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| 15:02.58 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil waht kind of board are you using? |
| 15:03.16 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil ... if you can say |
| 15:04.30 | SpeedEvil | Can't right now, sorry |
| 15:05.10 | SpeedEvil | Maybe in a week. It is a nice board, |
| 15:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF017.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:06.23 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil i guess it is :-) - have fun |
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| 15:23.30 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3856 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:23.30 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 15:23.31 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/Makefile.am: |
| 15:23.31 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Add alsa to dependencies and compile volume control object/widget |
| 15:23.31 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-alsa-volume-button.c: |
| 15:23.32 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-alsa-volume-button.h: |
| 15:23.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Remove unused MokoAlsaVolumeButton |
| 15:25.05 | Sup3rkiddo | OMG, openstreetmaps is awesomest |
| 15:25.09 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=stealthc@88.191.12.145) |
| 15:25.30 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7d49f.pool.einsundeins.de) |
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| 15:29.24 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: Did you just look at it? |
| 15:29.50 | wurp2 | I mean, for the first time |
| 15:29.53 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, na, lol....plotted some points around my home with the neo |
| 15:30.07 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, i didnt get a gps fix until today |
| 15:30.24 | wurp2 | Did you upload them to OSM somehow? I dunno how to do that except some pretty manual ways... |
| 15:30.38 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: ugh! |
| 15:30.40 | wurp2 | afk for a bit... |
| 15:31.08 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, not yet, i am gonna roam around a bit more, Chennai is horribly devoid in OSM |
| 15:31.49 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 15:32.48 | SpeedEvil | You go from NMEA -> GPX , and then either upload the GPX to the server, or load it into JOSM. |
| 15:33.29 | *** join/#openmoko horvatj73 (n=horvatj7@chello213047068010.17.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 15:33.29 | SpeedEvil | Then - assuming JOSM - you create ways along the tracks, and set them to the appriate types |
| 15:33.46 | SpeedEvil | -> wurp2 |
| 15:34.19 | Sup3rkiddo | yup, yup..yup...=D, |
| 15:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko infernixx (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 15:34.24 | SpeedEvil | See wiki.openstreetmap.org and click on 'getting started' |
| 15:34.42 | SpeedEvil | You've got your own cart? |
| 15:34.49 | Sup3rkiddo | blrh |
| 15:35.05 | mwester | The cart is the easy part. The horse is the tough one. |
| 15:36.02 | SpeedEvil | Oh - and #osm over on irc.oftc.net |
| 15:36.47 | Sup3rkiddo | man, thats lamest thing i have heard today |
| 15:37.01 | Sup3rkiddo | mwester, you obviously suck at standup comedy :? |
| 15:37.22 | mwester | So I've been told. |
| 15:39.59 | Sup3rkiddo | :P |
| 15:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko rbs-tito (n=tito@88-107-116-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
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| 15:52.58 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3857 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-alsa-volume-control.c): |
| 15:52.58 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-alsa-volume-control.c: |
| 15:52.58 | CIA-15 | openmoko: (moko_alsa_volume_control_set_device_from_name): |
| 15:52.58 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Finish implementing (didn't realise I left this unfinished): Fix |
| 15:52.58 | CIA-15 | openmoko: infinite loop, get card name correctly and resolve alsa alias |
| 15:57.02 | *** join/#openmoko rbs-tito (n=tito@88-107-116-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
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| 16:13.30 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3858 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-alsa-volume-scale.c): |
| 16:13.30 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-alsa-volume-scale.c: (create_widgets): |
| 16:13.30 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Remove rogue '.png' on the end of icon names |
| 16:13.44 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.115.2) |
| 16:18.55 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn167240.wlan.jku.at) |
| 16:21.04 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-80-142.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 16:22.22 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: Why so long to get a fix? |
| 16:23.50 | *** join/#openmoko doughnut42 (n=goden@rrcs-67-79-195-201.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 16:23.52 | kdean06 | wurp2, Get your phone back yet? |
| 16:24.15 | wurp2 | kdean06: Nope :-( |
| 16:24.39 | wurp2 | I'm guessing possibly today, probably by end of tomorrow, and almost certainly by end of Friday |
| 16:24.48 | kdean06 | Hrm. |
| 16:24.52 | wurp2 | Michael mailed it back to me on Monday |
| 16:26.09 | kdean06 | Cool. :) |
| 16:26.32 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=stealthc@88.191.12.145) |
| 16:26.38 | wurp2 | I guess ;-) |
| 16:27.01 | wurp2 | It'll be cooler when it's back in my hands, and I can play with gprs, etc. |
| 16:27.07 | kdean06 | I'm getting segfaults on openmoko-messages2 after inserting my wife's SIM card and getting 8 SMS messages she couldn't access... Are those messages stored in /root or elsewhere? I don't want to kill them on today's flash. |
| 16:27.10 | wurp2 | Does your audio player skip? |
| 16:27.15 | kdean06 | Occasionally. |
| 16:27.25 | kdean06 | More when it's on the speakers than on the headphones. |
| 16:27.41 | wurp2 | Hmm, I'll have to pay attention next time |
| 16:27.46 | wurp2 | I thought I remembered it skipping on both |
| 16:27.47 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 16:27.57 | wurp2 | I have no idea where the SMSs are stored :-( |
| 16:28.29 | wurp2 | Is there a python api yet to the moko api? |
| 16:29.01 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178228037.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:29.57 | wurp2 | kdean06: Have you tried QTopia yet? |
| 16:30.25 | kdean06 | I haven't... I'm semi-reluctant to do so because it feels like cheating. :P |
| 16:30.32 | wurp2 | I felt the same way |
| 16:30.37 | wurp2 | The UI is much snappier |
| 16:30.48 | wurp2 | And more of the 'end user' type stuff works |
| 16:31.18 | wurp2 | The audio is *much* louder and clearer (I'm sure if I knew enough about alsa I could get the same from openmoko's media player) |
| 16:31.22 | wurp2 | and it doesn't skip |
| 16:31.22 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, i am supposed to work on that =), i have the gsmd API coverd in sorts but emdette's version is much more stabler as it talks over pyserial |
| 16:31.24 | wurp2 | BUT |
| 16:31.33 | kdean06 | No, real reason... I'm documenting the applications on OpenMoko and I'd rather not do dual-booting before I get the "basics" down and feel more comfortable with OpenMoko and the Neo itself. |
| 16:31.48 | wurp2 | no terminal! Which is just a show stopper for me |
| 16:31.51 | wurp2 | and no real docs |
| 16:31.55 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: Cool!! |
| 16:31.58 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/python-openmoko/ |
| 16:32.11 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: tyvm! |
| 16:32.45 | wurp2 | kdean06: Are you publishing these docs? |
| 16:33.06 | kdean06 | I will, or I plan to. |
| 16:33.21 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: Is python-openmoko your project? |
| 16:33.39 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, the python-gsmd is for the libgsmd API, freesmartphone.org also has some python stuff but more stable |
| 16:34.01 | kdean06 | I haven't written anything yet except a very wordy review of Day 1 using the thing, but I plan to break down every application - documenting bugs and filing them as well as writing simple "How to" type stuff as one would find in a manual. |
| 16:34.02 | wurp2 | kdean06: Yaknow, if you just entered them directly on the wiki, ppl would be updating them & helping you complete them as you go along (hint, hint) ;-) |
| 16:34.17 | *** join/#openmoko Blastur (i=Blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 16:34.19 | wurp2 | Did you look at that manual link I sent you? |
| 16:34.24 | kdean06 | lol |
| 16:34.31 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, yeah i am one among the team, lemme know if you are interested in binding openmoko-libs, |
| 16:34.49 | wurp2 | If I can get MokoMakefile to build through clean once I may contribute some |
| 16:34.52 | kdean06 | wurp2, I must be crazy, I recall you mentioning it but I STILL don't think I've seen a link. :P Lemme check my logs to see. |
| 16:34.56 | wurp2 | but my time is very restricted |
| 16:35.12 | wurp2 | kdean06: sec |
| 16:35.19 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, yup sure, any help...i could use help from an experienced dude |
| 16:35.34 | wurp2 | kdean06: http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/openmoko.html |
| 16:36.35 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve87 (n=fradeve@87.13.133.52) |
| 16:36.42 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F62D56.versanet.de) |
| 16:36.44 | wurp2 | kdean06: I'm pretty sure I posted it last time I brought it up, but I didn't label it |
| 16:37.06 | kdean06 | Bookmarked. :P |
| 16:37.14 | wurp2 | neo1973 manual link (out of date, but still useful): http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/openmoko.html |
| 16:37.18 | wurp2 | now it's labelled |
| 16:38.00 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: So far my way of getting MokoMakefile to build through is just run my script to do the update sequence they list on the wiki |
| 16:38.23 | wurp2 | And just keep doing that each time I think about it, assuming that EVENTUALLY the repository will have something that builds in it |
| 16:38.57 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, hmm, thats kinda sucky, but once you have a clean build its smooth...i struggled for two weeks in the beginning |
| 16:39.31 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: Yeah, I figured that would be the case (it would be smooth after the first clean one). Hence the lackluster effort on my part |
| 16:39.44 | wurp2 | Eventually it will work, and then my laziness will have paid off |
| 16:39.48 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, hehe.. |
| 16:43.15 | kdean06 | I love that exit quip. :p |
| 16:59.16 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
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| 17:02.07 | yoyo | hi 2 all |
| 17:03.00 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-80-142.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 17:06.28 | wurp2 | hi yoyo |
| 17:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-80-142.dsl.scarlet.be) |
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| 17:21.34 | kdean06 | Sun is aquiring MySQL. |
| 17:21.52 | Mononoke | http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/compiler_complaint.png |
| 17:21.55 | anrp | now it's yoursql :/ |
| 17:22.00 | anrp | not mysql! |
| 17:22.39 | LarstiQ | My being the name of one of the founders daughters :P |
| 17:23.13 | kdean06 | Mononoke, Love it. |
| 17:28.28 | wurp2 | I love about 90% of xkcd |
| 17:28.35 | wurp2 | and I like the other 10% quite a bit |
| 17:29.18 | cjb_ie | oh, for anyone who's sick of firefox truncating xkcd's hover-overs: http://home.etu.unige.ch/~robin0/LongTitles_en.html |
| 17:29.29 | Sup3rkiddo | its fixed in FF3.0 |
| 17:31.18 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 17:31.56 | mgregsond | I've heard that the gta02 gets only 10h of battery life. Is this right? |
| 17:32.09 | LarstiQ | cjb_ie: thank you! |
| 17:32.16 | mgregsond | That seems... rediculously low. |
| 17:32.22 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.193.51) |
| 17:32.45 | wurp2 | cjb_ie: Installed. Thanks! |
| 17:33.10 | wurp2 | mgregsond: It's more like 6 hours when you're lucky, you can count on 4. |
| 17:33.16 | SpeedEvil | mre: Powersaving is not done |
| 17:33.28 | SpeedEvil | mre: there is work on doing it |
| 17:33.54 | wurp2 | mgregsond: You know the phone is still under development, not consumer ready? |
| 17:34.22 | SpeedEvil | In principle it looks like powersaving can be considerably better than it is - for GTA01 and GTA02 |
| 17:34.51 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:34.59 | mgregsond | wurp2: Yeah, the a01 gets ~6 hours |
| 17:35.08 | mgregsond | wurp2: Wasn't the a02 a consumer release though? |
| 17:35.10 | wurp2 | mgregsond: Sorry, I see now that you said '02 :-) |
| 17:35.21 | wurp2 | mgregsond: I have no idea what the life is like on 02 |
| 17:35.41 | mgregsond | wurp2: The last estimate I heard was 10h... :s |
| 17:35.47 | wurp2 | mgregsond: But I'm pretty sure that the power saving software is not done for either platform, so 10 hours sounds like a reasonable estimate for current '02 time |
| 17:35.51 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: the final 02 release hardware is not determined |
| 17:35.57 | mgregsond | wurp2: I'm hoping it's, well... 4 times that. |
| 17:36.12 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: It will do that - powered off and wake on ring |
| 17:36.18 | wurp2 | mgregsond: I think it will be, in standby mode |
| 17:36.25 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: That bit is yet to be coded though |
| 17:36.30 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=stealthc@88.191.12.145) |
| 17:36.39 | mgregsond | Ah, so this is a software thing and no |
| 17:36.41 | wurp2 | mgregsond: SpeedEvil knows more than I about it |
| 17:36.48 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: basically, yes |
| 17:36.54 | mgregsond | not a really shitty battery... |
| 17:37.01 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: powersaving hardware is only the on-off switches. |
| 17:37.27 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: the software has to prepare all of the preconditions to throwing these switches, and throw them at the right time. |
| 17:37.46 | mgregsond | The power saving stuff will be done for that a02 release? |
| 17:37.56 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: And be able to cleanly recover from being turned off. |
| 17:38.03 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: maybe |
| 17:38.58 | mgregsond | Any idea what kind of battery life is reasonable to expect after the powersaving is implemented? |
| 17:39.06 | SpeedEvil | mgregsond: The hardware will possibly be ready before the software. |
| 17:39.15 | SpeedEvil | _VERY_ROUGH_GUESSES_ |
| 17:39.31 | SpeedEvil | Some months in suspend-RAM, with everything off |
| 17:39.44 | mgregsond | Will that still wake on ring? |
| 17:39.48 | SpeedEvil | A year or more completely off - in suspend to disk |
| 17:39.50 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 17:40.11 | SpeedEvil | About 80 hours or more in suspend-RAM with GSM on |
| 17:40.30 | mgregsond | If you can actually pull that off, I'll buy one. ;) |
| 17:40.36 | SpeedEvil | And maybe 20-40 hours with bluetooth on - it's hard to tell |
| 17:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 17:41.04 | SpeedEvil | Much of this is hard to measure. |
| 17:41.09 | mgregsond | SpeedEvil: My old WM5 phone got ~3h with bluetooth on. 20 hours is at least longer than a work day... |
| 17:42.13 | SpeedEvil | Basically as the hardware can't be properly measured until the software is ready. |
| 17:42.26 | mgregsond | Yeah |
| 17:42.53 | mgregsond | sorry, I'm trying to decide if the a02 will be worth buying or not. |
| 17:42.57 | SpeedEvil | Well - with absolutely no powersaving other than the display being off, it gets some 5h or so with bluetooth on, logging an external GPS |
| 17:43.08 | mgregsond | SpeedEvil: The a02? |
| 17:43.08 | SpeedEvil | I'd say you can't tell at this time. |
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| 17:43.41 | mgregsond | But, should I wait until I can, or just buy something else? |
| 17:44.15 | SpeedEvil | GTA01 will hopefully show progress in power managment in the next few weeks |
| 17:44.19 | mgregsond | I played with an a01 running qtopia yesterday and it was pretty sweet... |
| 17:44.34 | SpeedEvil | There is work done on cpufreq |
| 17:44.53 | kdean06 | mgregsond, Don't let the release of Freerunner determine anything. It might be out tomorrow, it might not be out until 2012. Though if you'd like to help development (which is pretty much all that's happening with Freerunner now anyway) you can always get an 01. :) |
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| 17:46.18 | mgregsond | kdean06: Problem is, with the a01's current battery life it's not actually useful. Plus, the 850mhz band... |
| 17:48.41 | kdean06 | At this point, the software is crappy enough that there's only so much use anyway - I can't access messages2 without a segfault - improved battery life doesn't really matter and that's a software issue not a hardware one - if you're looking for a fully functional phone replacement that's even further off than Freerunner's release. |
| 17:49.02 | mgregsond | I see... |
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| 17:50.54 | *** part/#openmoko osmosis (n=steven@63.139.86.3) |
| 17:52.29 | mgregsond | kdean06: But it can make and receive phone calls, yes? |
| 17:52.51 | kdean06 | Most of the time, yes. |
| 17:52.55 | mgregsond | lol |
| 17:53.20 | kdean06 | My 01 can, I mean. I assume Freerunner also can, I've not seen that hardware. |
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| 17:56.51 | mgregsond | kdean06: Alright. Thanks :) |
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| 18:00.43 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit__ (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 18:00.58 | mgregsond | kdean06: If the a02 comes with 850mhz band support, then I can at least hope that with enough work I'll end up with a fully functional phone. I'll wait for news on the a02 850mhz model... |
| 18:01.50 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 18:02.15 | mgregsond | kdean06: Last time I used windows mobile it wasn't in a state that I'd consider 'finished' yet either. With moko I can atleast hack at it myself. |
| 18:03.19 | mgregsond | Damned thing used to occasionally crash and lose everything. |
| 18:03.46 | mgregsond | (Occasionally -> once every week or so...) |
| 18:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@e177215155.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:04.26 | mgregsond | SpeedEvil: Thanks for the help. |
| 18:07.39 | wurp2 | mgregsond: I was told when I orderd my '01 that the '02 would include a tri-band 850 mhz version |
| 18:08.02 | *** join/#openmoko RP (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net) |
| 18:08.07 | wurp2 | I really expect to use my 01 as my primary phone once it gets back from Michael Shiloh |
| 18:08.32 | wurp2 | The battery life is crap, but I'm rarely away from a PC for more than 2 hours |
| 18:09.02 | wurp2 | And when I am, I can bring my charger with me. Occasionally I'll run out of battery, but it'll be less than once a month |
| 18:09.30 | wurp2 | and if SpeedEvil is right that some of the battery life issues will be resolved in a few weeks, I may never run out before the issue is fixed |
| 18:10.14 | wurp2 | and if I lose the occasional call, well, I really want the gps and media player more than I want to talk on a cell phone, anyway |
| 18:10.52 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@78.42.60.129) |
| 18:10.55 | PBeck | hi |
| 18:15.33 | CVirus | Wifi needed here |
| 18:16.10 | CVirus | GTA01 ... progress in power management ? |
| 18:16.12 | CVirus | any details ? |
| 18:18.18 | *** join/#openmoko hansmbakker (n=hansmbak@hansbakker.student.utwente.nl) |
| 18:18.56 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit_ (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 18:19.22 | SpeedEvil | Ask again later. |
| 18:19.42 | CVirus | gah .. okay |
| 18:20.04 | SpeedEvil | More seriously. |
| 18:20.20 | SpeedEvil | There is someone - whoes name I'm blanking on - doing work on PM |
| 18:20.26 | SpeedEvil | cesarb? |
| 18:20.33 | mjr | good... |
| 18:20.38 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host212-56-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:20.43 | SpeedEvil | He's got lots of code - nothing actually compiled as I understand it though |
| 18:21.12 | CVirus | interesting |
| 18:21.16 | SpeedEvil | to do stuff like changing frequency and adjusting appropruiate registers in peripherals so they stay working |
| 18:22.02 | mjr | "yay" |
| 18:22.27 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit__ (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 18:22.53 | CVirus | I'm sure it's cesarb now ... he's the one who started the power management keys page on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_management_keys |
| 18:22.56 | CVirus | :-D |
| 18:23.51 | SpeedEvil | I plan in the next weeks to be getting on with nasty hacks That's a horribly generalised page |
| 18:24.00 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@189.sub-70-215-238.myvzw.com) |
| 18:24.04 | SpeedEvil | s/s T/s, T/ |
| 18:24.19 | CVirus | hehe |
| 18:24.49 | SpeedEvil | It should at least say something like "on some [[PC]] keyboards after 2000' or simialr. |
| 18:25.14 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: He has lots of code, but none of it's compiling? |
| 18:25.20 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 18:25.24 | SpeedEvil | As he's not tried. |
| 18:25.33 | wurp2 | That is a nonstandard way to work, to say the least |
| 18:26.14 | SpeedEvil | If it works for him. |
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| 18:28.44 | wurp2 | I wonder if the new Li batteries with nano-silicon wire will work in the '01 |
| 18:28.45 | SpeedEvil | My guess would be no. |
| 18:28.53 | SpeedEvil | ->cb23 |
| 18:29.04 | wurp2 | Of course, they're just under development now, but several x the battery life would be very cool ;-) |
| 18:29.09 | SpeedEvil | The 'middle bit' of the case is getting totally revamped |
| 18:29.15 | wurp2 | s/ x / times / |
| 18:29.39 | cb23 | SpeedEvil, ah, internal / nonvisable changes only ish? |
| 18:29.40 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: well - incresed energy density in cells isn't always good. |
| 18:30.07 | SpeedEvil | http://youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU |
| 18:30.39 | balrog-kun | cb23, SpeedEvil: i think they work |
| 18:30.50 | SpeedEvil | cb23'd be right. |
| 18:30.51 | cb23 | no flash :/ |
| 18:30.57 | SpeedEvil | Quite a good one. |
| 18:31.00 | cb23 | heh, those things are mean |
| 18:31.10 | SpeedEvil | Jet of roaring flame and all. |
| 18:31.33 | balrog-kun | i have two of the FIC batteries and they work fine in GTA01 but i'm not sure if they are the new ones yet |
| 18:31.58 | cb23 | i was all scared, and then figured that they have internal circutry that should keep them stable enough |
| 18:32.06 | cb23 | balrog-kun, the 1700mah one? |
| 18:32.09 | balrog-kun | they are thicker than my nokia BL-5C battery, so they may be the new model, but i'm not sure |
| 18:32.13 | SpeedEvil | what's it say on the backl bal? |
| 18:32.27 | SpeedEvil | Mine says FIC, then four lines, then 1200MaH |
| 18:32.29 | SpeedEvil | mAh |
| 18:32.36 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: in principle. |
| 18:32.38 | SpeedEvil | cb23: |
| 18:32.40 | balrog-kun | it still says GTA01 battery on them, lemme check what's the ampere number on them is |
| 18:32.47 | cb23 | MaH would be nice |
| 18:33.04 | balrog-kun | ah, no, they are 1200mAh Li-ion too |
| 18:33.04 | cb23 | who would care about power management then :) |
| 18:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Mega angstrom henries? |
| 18:33.21 | balrog-kun | i thought they were the new ones since they're thicker than my old battery |
| 18:33.26 | balrog-kun | i only had the Nokia one until now |
| 18:33.41 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: milliamp-hours |
| 18:34.07 | SpeedEvil | cb23: the problem is that you rely on the safety circuitry 100%, and if anything goes wrong, you've got a 2m blowtorch just next to your genitals. |
| 18:34.35 | cb23 | genitals... blowtorch... bad... |
| 18:34.52 | balrog-kun | actually it says GTC-01/GTA-01, not sure what that means |
| 18:34.54 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: My understanding is that the chemical explosion is not directly related to the mAh in the battery |
| 18:35.13 | wurp2 | Several improvements to Li energy density have also improved safety |
| 18:35.15 | SpeedEvil | Some chemistries are 'passively safe' - if you stab them or something goes wrong, they don't explode in that manner. |
| 18:35.31 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: Not directly no, chemistry is important too. |
| 18:35.34 | cb23 | yeah, last i heard, c4 was pretty stable too :) |
| 18:35.50 | cb23 | provided you dont carry a blasting cap in the same pocket |
| 18:35.54 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: the problem is that if it gets hot enough to melt the batteries seperator then things get going _really_ fast. |
| 18:36.22 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: then in many chemistries, the internal compounds are flammable. |
| 18:36.45 | SpeedEvil | So that when the cell vents, you can get a blowtorch |
| 18:37.01 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@c-24-9-52-252.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:37.10 | SpeedEvil | Especially as particles of molten lithium may get carried along to aid ignition. |
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| 19:00.22 | yoyo | I need to go scrue ma savage into one peass |
| 19:00.24 | yoyo | sija |
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| 19:45.13 | yoyo | haa :) my savage is from now on in one pice ;) |
| 19:45.33 | doc|work | eh? |
| 19:46.00 | yoyo | sorry for my English :/ |
| 19:47.08 | doc|work | what's a savage? |
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| 19:48.05 | yoyo | doc|work: I mean. I have a remote control care savage (hpi) and five minutes ago it whose disassembled. now it isn't |
| 19:48.30 | doc|work | :) |
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| 19:56.13 | kdean06 | Crap, I just had my first experience the the GTA01's crappy power management. :S |
| 19:56.14 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=ArteK@82.177.19.205) |
| 19:56.28 | Kryczek | kdean06: what happened? |
| 19:56.47 | kdean06 | It's dead. :P |
| 19:56.56 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7d49f.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 19:56.57 | SpeedEvil | It's not dead. |
| 19:57.01 | SpeedEvil | It's just resting! |
| 19:57.06 | kdean06 | Indeed! |
| 19:57.19 | SpeedEvil | You know how to revive it? |
| 19:57.54 | SpeedEvil | unplug, remove battery 10 mins, replace, replug, wait 1h and it should boot |
| 19:58.31 | SpeedEvil | It will be enough to run it for a few minutes |
| 19:58.35 | kdean06 | Fair enough, thanks. |
| 19:58.46 | kdean06 | So, has this been confirmed a hardware fault, or still unknown? |
| 19:59.51 | SpeedEvil | It's a firmware fault |
| 20:00.03 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@newhost71-217.imm.dtu.dk) |
| 20:00.05 | SpeedEvil | It needs to suspend at 5% battery use |
| 20:00.08 | SpeedEvil | left |
| 20:00.14 | SpeedEvil | Or turn off at 1% |
| 20:00.25 | SpeedEvil | at the moment, it simply drains the battery all the way |
| 20:00.43 | doc|work | fun |
| 20:04.15 | *** join/#openmoko OJW (n=OJW@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:04.29 | wurp2 | The thing that got me was that I went on a trip right after I got my gta01 |
| 20:04.35 | wurp2 | and I was only around Windows machines |
| 20:04.48 | wurp2 | and I could never get it to pull 500 mA from a windows machine |
| 20:05.21 | wurp2 | Finally I figured out that you have to install the inf file to enable the '01 to network with the machine via USB before it would pull 500 mA |
| 20:05.21 | kdean06 | SpeedEvil, So is there hope that this will be resolved or is it not getting attention? |
| 20:05.32 | kdean06 | I mean, I know the ISSUE is, but the solution? |
| 20:05.45 | wurp2 | Now, of course, I have a boot option to force 500 mA |
| 20:06.15 | *** part/#openmoko hansmbakker (n=hansmbak@hansbakker.student.utwente.nl) |
| 20:08.27 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: getting attention - slowly |
| 20:09.01 | kdean06 | Awesome. |
| 20:09.12 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: power management is hard - it needs really implemented as one huge complex blob. |
| 20:09.13 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 20:09.16 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 20:09.33 | kdean06 | Though... I suppose suspending at 5% isn't that much of a fix if it takes 4 hours to GET to 5% though. |
| 20:10.02 | kdean06 | BUt it solves a big problem - namely super slow recharges. |
| 20:10.07 | SpeedEvil | That's why it's all of one part |
| 20:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@libervis/athing) |
| 20:10.45 | SpeedEvil | It's got to do cpu frequency changing, rapid suspending and resuming from RAM, and about 5 other things to get decent battery life. |
| 20:11.12 | kdean06 | Does the USB port require a smart host? My car charger doesn't seem to work so I'm assuming it's doing nothing or only 100mA - is it typical to only push 100mA on car chargers? |
| 20:11.29 | *** join/#openmoko gopi_ (n=gopi@64.213.69.17) |
| 20:11.32 | mwester | And all of that needs to happen without screwing up any of the state for any of the devices -- one of the really tricky ones seems to be the serial/gsm interface. |
| 20:12.04 | kdean06 | If it does the last, I can charge on my way home. :) If not, I'll be Neo-free tonight (and I haven't even done my flash!) |
| 20:12.17 | mwester | kdean06: no, 500ma is typical for all usb chargers; the 100ma limit is really only for non-powered hubs and for laptops... |
| 20:12.35 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:12.48 | mwester | You should be able to charge on the way home; I do it all the time with mine (cheapo Belkin lighter-plug usb charger device) |
| 20:13.04 | anrp | lots of car chargers provide 1a, although some limit to 500ma |
| 20:13.13 | anrp | and 2a isn't unheard of but that gets a bit iffy with the connectors/wires |
| 20:13.38 | wurp2 | kdean06, mwester: But you have to put your neo into a mode to force fast charge |
| 20:13.58 | kdean06 | Alright, thanks. :) I'm heading out to get my wife a new phone. yay. |
| 20:14.10 | wurp2 | Just plugging it into a 500 mA charger doesn't do the trick - if the neo can't negotiate with the charger & figure out it's 500 mA, you get a slow charge |
| 20:14.26 | anrp | unless you patch it to allow fast charge on no usb data |
| 20:14.30 | anrp | i think theres a patch floating around |
| 20:14.42 | wurp2 | As I was saying earlier, it will often pull only 100 mA even when plugged into a Windows desktop |
| 20:14.51 | wurp2 | anrp: That would scare me |
| 20:14.54 | kdean06 | I thik I need a slow charge right now anyway so that's fine. |
| 20:14.55 | mwester | wurp2: right - either use the u-boot special menu item to enter fast charge, or just echo the magic string to the right device file, and it will enter fast mode. |
| 20:14.57 | wurp2 | I prefer to just have a command for it |
| 20:15.29 | mwester | wurp2: Someone actually wrote a little command thingy for it. THere's an ipkg somewhere, I think. |
| 20:15.34 | wurp2 | and of course it's worth noting that it pulls more than 100 mA if it's doing anything at all |
| 20:15.54 | wurp2 | so the battery can die while it's on a 100 mA charger unless the phone is off |
| 20:16.05 | mwester | Hence my need to have it charging in the car -- my car trips to my customers are often 4 hours or more... |
| 20:16.21 | wurp2 | mwester: Thanks. Someone in the room sent me the magic string & /sys/ file; once I get my phone back, I'll create a script for it |
| 20:16.24 | mmontour | There's also a bug in old u-boots where it will only draw 50mA in the "100 mA" mode |
| 20:16.30 | mmontour | !ombug 762 |
| 20:16.31 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 762, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown |
| 20:16.32 | cdbot2 | * * wally.ritchie(AT)gmail.com: GTA01v4 Only Charges at 40ma |
| 20:16.33 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=762 |
| 20:16.36 | wurp2 | mmontour: Ouch!! |
| 20:16.40 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:17.04 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 20:18.39 | mwester | Now that's not nice at all. :( Of course, you pick your evil with uboot these days -- there doesn't seem to be a singe version that doesnt' have some really painful bug. |
| 20:18.41 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@209-45-135-131.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 20:19.54 | mmontour | mwester: mickeyl released a new u-boot snapshot a couple of days ago that's free of painful bugs |
| 20:21.20 | mwester | Well, I have a debug board. :) No reason for me not to try it, then. URL? |
| 20:21.48 | mmontour | http://buildhost.vanille.de/fic-gta01/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+git0ec595243dc99edcd248bbcfbfd5a1dc860bde89+svn3817-r1.bin |
| 20:21.54 | mmontour | Also: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2008-January/001069.html |
| 20:22.20 | mwester | thanks~ |
| 20:22.22 | mwester | ! |
| 20:24.00 | mwester | My neo currently won't boot from the power-button only -- I have to boot to the u-boot menu, then select the boot item from the menu... known u-boot bug, not a big deal, but it would be nice to have that fixed. :) |
| 20:24.46 | mmontour | That one's fixed. |
| 20:26.27 | mmontour | Disclaimer: I haven't yet had time to test that most recent snapshot, but I have tested slightly earlier builds in which those bugs were fixed |
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| 20:36.36 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X0c4f.x.pppool.de) |
| 20:38.28 | SpeedEvil | I've added to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management a table of current projects on power managment. |
| 20:38.40 | SpeedEvil | It is unfortunately a rather short table at the moment. |
| 20:40.29 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 20:42.12 | mjr | cesar's current project include work on slow mode? |
| 20:42.43 | SpeedEvil | Not as I understand it. |
| 20:42.58 | SpeedEvil | Slow mode has some problems - USB won't work in it, forex |
| 20:43.21 | mjr | yeah, I know (about the USB, anyway) |
| 20:43.23 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 20:43.31 | SpeedEvil | And hence bluetooth of course |
| 20:43.48 | anrp | that's a bit more of a problem ... |
| 20:43.57 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 20:44.13 | SpeedEvil | 30Mhz isn't _greatly_ more power using. |
| 20:44.41 | anrp | what's the penalty of keeping the usb block alive, though? |
| 20:44.48 | anrp | since its got its own pll (iirc) |
| 20:45.02 | SpeedEvil | Small - according to the datasheet |
| 20:45.16 | SpeedEvil | that's not the only constraint though - the main clock has to be over IIRC 30Mhz |
| 20:45.21 | SpeedEvil | PCLK |
| 20:45.42 | mjr | ack |
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| 21:00.32 | *** part/#openmoko hachi (i=hachi@shego.kuiki.net) |
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| 21:09.30 | OJW | so neo (with new name) was demonstrated at some electronics show? |
| 21:09.38 | OJW | does this mean it's nearly ready? |
| 21:10.24 | zash | topic |
| 21:10.36 | balrog-kun | yes, hardware is nearly ready |
| 21:10.51 | cjb_ie | topic is too damn long for viewing on any sensible screen |
| 21:10.53 | balrog-kun | i mean the design, not the units physically |
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| 21:11.06 | balrog-kun | they need to be produced first :) |
| 21:12.45 | SpeedEvil | OJW: no |
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| 21:19.18 | *** join/#openmoko Moniker42 (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/student/Moniker42) |
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| 21:21.40 | Moniker42 | so... the FreeRunner and the Neo1973-GTA02 are different phones? |
| 21:21.49 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 21:21.54 | SpeedEvil | same |
| 21:21.56 | SpeedEvil | new name |
| 21:22.05 | Moniker42 | ah |
| 21:22.12 | mwester | Freerunner == GTA02 + Marketing Hype |
| 21:22.24 | summatusmentis | what marketing hype? i haven't really seen any |
| 21:22.36 | mwester | (and a little smidgeon of misinformation tossed in by the first folks who reported on it, too) |
| 21:22.54 | Moniker42 | summatusmentis, all and every remotely technological blog out there? :) |
| 21:23.23 | Moniker42 | i've seen articles in LinuxJournal, The Economist, Engadget... |
| 21:23.35 | summatusmentis | Moniker42: for real? I guess I don't pay any attention then |
| 21:24.11 | summatusmentis | I can use qemu and pre-built images to start w/ right? |
| 21:24.21 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p508B09AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:24.23 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:24.44 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> http://openmoko.org | Buy Neo1973 at http://direct.openmoko.com | New version is |
| 21:24.51 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: is there a tutorial as to how to do this? |
| 21:25.01 | mwester | SpeedEvil: well, that's shorter. |
| 21:25.02 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> http://openmoko.org | Buy Neo1973 at http://direct.openmoko.com | New version is the FreeRunner (with WiFi...) maybe due March. Official status: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 21:25.05 | balrog-kun | start what? :) |
| 21:25.06 | mwester | Ah. |
| 21:25.31 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: [[quehttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu |
| 21:25.33 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu |
| 21:25.39 | SpeedEvil | I have no idea as to if this works |
| 21:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 21:26.17 | borg_ | it works, but qemu is horribly slow, so dont expect to much, summatusmentis |
| 21:26.35 | balrog-kun | it works but not for calling your family and friends :) |
| 21:26.48 | SpeedEvil | In theory you could connect a real GSM module |
| 21:27.00 | yoyo | gnome restart time :/ |
| 21:27.07 | balrog-kun | yes, even in practice :) |
| 21:27.15 | summatusmentis | don't have money for a real gsm module, mostly I just want to see what it looks like, keep an updated view of what's going on |
| 21:27.17 | summatusmentis | and I'm on OS X |
| 21:28.11 | zash | SpeedEvil: would huawei e220 do as gsm module? |
| 21:28.38 | SpeedEvil | I have no idea what that is. |
| 21:28.53 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: usb 3G modem |
| 21:28.59 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 21:29.15 | balrog-kun | can you talk AT commands to it? |
| 21:29.17 | SpeedEvil | If you can connect to it as a virtual serial port, and it suporrts AT commands - probably |
| 21:29.29 | cjb_ie | as used by vodafone, o2 and three in ireland, and i would assume the UK. commonly referred to as "soap on a rope" |
| 21:29.44 | balrog-kun | heh |
| 21:29.47 | cjb_ie | shows up as a pl2303 serial device with a little persuasion |
| 21:29.53 | SpeedEvil | cjb_ie: price? |
| 21:29.54 | zash | ive got /dev/ttyUSB[012] |
| 21:30.17 | summatusmentis | oh, I need qemu-1973, not just straight qemu? |
| 21:30.19 | balrog-kun | oh, then it should work just fine iwth qemu |
| 21:30.31 | balrog-kun | summatusmentis: to emulate the neo1973 yes |
| 21:30.39 | summatusmentis | oh, ok... hrm |
| 21:30.45 | cjb_ie | zash: 0 should do. but there's some weird statefulness - you may need to unplug and replug |
| 21:30.49 | summatusmentis | are there precompiled OS X binaries for that? :-P |
| 21:30.56 | wurp2 | summatusmentis: qemu is really, really, horribly slow - I completely gave up on it |
| 21:31.06 | zash | diff make qemu{,-1973} |
| 21:31.09 | wurp2 | Maybe my box is just misconfigured somehow |
| 21:31.22 | SpeedEvil | Ah. /me finds prices. |
| 21:31.28 | summatusmentis | wurp2: so what do you do instead? |
| 21:31.37 | SpeedEvil | Coincidentally, it's almost the same price as a neo. |
| 21:31.45 | zash | SpeedEvil: ~300 + 99*12 SEK |
| 21:32.08 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: anywhere from 50-100 euros in ireland depending on contract |
| 21:32.12 | wurp2 | summatusmentis: I use my neo gta01 :-) |
| 21:32.16 | zash | SpeedEvil: price of what, e220 or sometihing else? |
| 21:32.21 | SpeedEvil | e220,. yes |
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| 21:32.41 | summatusmentis | wurp2: ah, some of us aren't so lucky(or on cdma, and poor college students) |
| 21:33.08 | wurp2 | I played with qemu three or four times. I often couldn't tell if buttons had been pushed or not since it took multiple minutes for the click to 'take' |
| 21:33.21 | wurp2 | And I had wanted the phone for a long time, so I just caved and bought one |
| 21:34.02 | summatusmentis | I've got a zaurus and cdma cell coverage, so I can't justify spending money on a phone I won't be able to do anything with |
| 21:34.04 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I started that Wikipedia article as a diatribe against poorly conceived keyboards which have power/sleep/suspend keys in stupid places |
| 21:34.17 | wurp2 | Yeah, my justification was gps |
| 21:34.17 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: gotta go now, I will talk later |
| 21:34.22 | wurp2 | I am navigationally challenged |
| 21:34.36 | wurp2 | but mostly I just really wanted it ;-) |
| 21:34.51 | wurp2 | and I am in a GSM 1900 area |
| 21:34.53 | balrog-kun | wurp2: that really sounds unusual |
| 21:34.57 | balrog-kun | about buttons in qemu |
| 21:34.58 | OJW | cesarb: try for "page down"... oops I just shut down the computer... ? |
| 21:35.12 | wurp2 | balrog-kun: My machine is pretty old |
| 21:35.27 | balrog-kun | here the responsiveness is about the same in qemu and on the real Neo (the host running qemu is 2 GHz) |
| 21:35.40 | wurp2 | balrog-kun: Runs at 1.2 ghz, it's an old AMD; don't even remember what model |
| 21:35.46 | wurp2 | K6 sounds familiar... |
| 21:35.53 | balrog-kun | and for cpu intensive operations qemu is actually faster than ARM |
| 21:35.57 | summatusmentis | ok, so on a c2d 2.16Ghz, I should be fine |
| 21:36.07 | wurp2 | But responsiveness is really, really awful on qemu for me |
| 21:36.27 | wurp2 | I downloaded qemu instead of building it, if I recall |
| 21:36.44 | summatusmentis | how many of you are gonna upgrade when freerunner comes out? |
| 21:36.59 | balrog-kun | wurp2: are you on a 32-bit OS? |
| 21:37.01 | wurp2 | I am |
| 21:37.13 | wurp2 | balrog-kun: Yeah, Ubuntu 7.10 |
| 21:37.17 | balrog-kun | i guess 32-bit OSes may be a couple of times slower as qemu hosts |
| 21:37.23 | wurp2 | ah |
| 21:37.25 | balrog-kun | i'm not sure what the exact figure may be |
| 21:37.33 | Moniker42 | i've not bought the developer version... i will be buying openmoko for the first time when the mass-market version is released ;) |
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| 21:37.50 | Moniker42 | will there be substantial hardware differences between the current release and the freerunner? |
| 21:37.54 | wurp2 | Moniker42: Mass market hardware, or are you waiting for mass market sw? |
| 21:38.21 | wurp2 | Moniker42: cpu 2x as fast, wifi, battery ~40% more capacity |
| 21:38.52 | balrog-kun | gcc really really makes use of the new x86-64 registers when compiling qemu |
| 21:38.55 | Moniker42 | hmm... wifi is definitely something to wait for |
| 21:39.05 | maito | the two first would eat the last one |
| 21:39.53 | Moniker42 | not if the wifi is turned off, and if the cpu is scalable |
| 21:39.53 | OJW | Moniker42: you seen the asus eee pc, for a small wifi web-browser device? |
| 21:40.09 | Moniker42 | yea, i already have a laptop though :) |
| 21:40.36 | OJW | replace luggable with miniature ;) |
| 21:40.47 | SpeedEvil | One of the (many) problems I have with the UK phone market is that yes - they'll often let you buy an equivalent contract without a phone - it won't be as cheap as it should be, to reflect the lack of subsidy to buy a phoen. |
| 21:40.59 | Moniker42 | i just want one mobile device with internet & phone/sms access with calendar/events storage that can fit in my pocket |
| 21:41.00 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:41.22 | zash | all new phones suck.. |
| 21:41.28 | *** join/#openmoko [PI]Sami (n=sami@a9b.pirttimaki.jyu.fi) |
| 21:41.30 | zash | and are built to die after 2 years |
| 21:41.34 | wurp2 | Moniker42: I just want one device for my phone, gps, and media player, and I want to be able to hack it, and get some basic web access |
| 21:41.49 | SpeedEvil | OJW: no - it may be illegal though |
| 21:41.54 | OJW | is there any *easy* way to tell your wifi router to allow port-80 and VPN outbound, so you can share bandwidth safely |
| 21:42.00 | SpeedEvil | OJW: people have actually been done for using open web access |
| 21:42.06 | SpeedEvil | OJW: fon.com |
| 21:42.13 | OJW | SpeedEvil: whoever the UK judge on that trial was, should be concerned for their safety |
| 21:42.32 | SpeedEvil | OJW: to be fair - the ones I'm aware of were acting _wierdly_ |
| 21:42.43 | SpeedEvil | sitting outside houses on walls using laptop, for example. |
| 21:42.55 | Moniker42 | mp3-player-in-my-pocket would also be good :) |
| 21:43.06 | SpeedEvil | And sitting in cars downloading porn. |
| 21:43.27 | summatusmentis | I wanna replace my Z at some point, hopefully w/ freerunner, but it kinda depends on what cell plan I'm on when it's released |
| 21:43.36 | Mononoke | hah so no wardrive but pr0ndrive ? |
| 21:43.57 | OJW | when it sets a precedent in newspaper stories, ... at that point the judgement instantly undermined any hope the UK had for next-generation internet access |
| 21:44.11 | zash | choice is king |
| 21:45.40 | Mononoke | it would be interesting to have switching songs based on data from accelerometer... |
| 21:45.40 | SpeedEvil | OJW: Unfortunately, GTA02 hasn't really done the sensible - in theory - way of doing MP3 |
| 21:45.57 | SpeedEvil | that'd be the accel chip being able toplay MP3 with the CPU in suspend |
| 21:46.55 | wurp2 | mjr, SpeedEvil: playing mp3s under QTopia seems to work fine, so I'm inclined to believe the issues are sw rather than hw |
| 21:47.05 | SpeedEvil | It's hw |
| 21:47.09 | SpeedEvil | At least most of it. |
| 21:47.13 | wurp2 | That, and 200 mhz should be plenty fast for playing mp3s |
| 21:47.21 | SpeedEvil | It needs some 60Mhz CPU to play MP3 |
| 21:47.29 | wurp2 | Then how does that hw play fine under QTopia? |
| 21:47.31 | SpeedEvil | This uses a _substantial_ amount od battery |
| 21:47.41 | SpeedEvil | That's a seperate issue. |
| 21:47.43 | wurp2 | Ah, so your issue is battery power taken |
| 21:47.54 | *** join/#openmoko _Krieger_ (n=warsword@80.90.233.15) |
| 21:47.56 | zash | or one could just cram a shuffle||zenstone into the phone |
| 21:47.58 | wurp2 | I'm more worried about it playing well, to start |
| 21:48.02 | SpeedEvil | yes - you're looking at at most some 8-10 hours playing music |
| 21:48.20 | wurp2 | Well, that doesn't bother me at all |
| 21:48.33 | _Krieger_ | does subj already have a usable {pdf,html} reader? |
| 21:48.59 | wurp2 | _Krieger_: I believe the answer is yes to both |
| 21:49.07 | wurp2 | but you have to find the package for the pdf |
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| 22:10.20 | ljp | anyone recall what the actual clock speed of the 01 device is? |
| 22:11.17 | zash | 233 or 266 something? |
| 22:11.43 | ljp | thats it 233 |
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| 22:13.28 | mjr | wurp2, I can play fine with ogg123 from the command line, not using pulseaudio. As I said, the pulseaudio server seems to be the bottleneck when playing with the GUI media player |
| 22:13.42 | mjr | the server eats about 25-30% CPU |
| 22:13.55 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 22:15.45 | mjr | which is quite enough to induce skipping |
| 22:15.53 | mjr | as ogg123 with -d oss eats ~80% |
| 22:17.05 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6443 |
| 22:17.08 | mjr | I assume using the OSS api directly blocks alarms and stuff though, unless the hw/driver does mixing |
| 22:17.16 | SpeedEvil | that's gotta be the better part of a watt active... |
| 22:17.22 | SpeedEvil | (by the battery life) |
| 22:17.37 | SpeedEvil | (2*AAA bluetooth keyb) |
| 22:17.59 | mjr | 90 minutes, how... not very useful |
| 22:18.19 | SpeedEvil | It's not unfeasible that the battery life is wrong. |
| 22:18.45 | SpeedEvil | They are basically a 'what can we get within 50 miles of our depot in hong kong' vendoe |
| 22:18.47 | SpeedEvil | vendor |
| 22:20.16 | mjr | aanyway, I'd posit that as far as media goes, some way of an app to get direct access to the sound hardware without having to go through the sound server would be necessary for a good and (power)efficient result; 'course, the rest of the system would then have to be able to say "fuuck, we need to play an alarm, release the device now" to said app and have it comply... |
| 22:20.31 | SpeedEvil | I really doubt that personally. |
| 22:20.56 | mjr | (or then pulseaudio is really just sucky and something else similar would work) |
| 22:20.56 | SpeedEvil | 88000 fixed-point adds per second or so does _not_ tax a 200Mhz CPU |
| 22:21.11 | SpeedEvil | Oh - and 88000 shifts |
| 22:21.55 | mjr | 's true I haven't bothered to do the math |
| 22:22.06 | zash | mp3 decompression? |
| 22:22.33 | SpeedEvil | Zanoi_: no - mixing only |
| 22:22.36 | SpeedEvil | zas: |
| 22:23.03 | SpeedEvil | zash: if mixing is taking double the time, then you've _utterly_ broken the mixer. |
| 22:23.14 | mjr | anyway, for some reason pulseaudio takes that 25-30% of CPU - even not doing any mixing at all, just taking data in from mediaplayer and stuffing it out |
| 22:23.32 | SpeedEvil | yes - potentially mixing I mean, not actually mixing |
| 22:23.55 | mjr | I wouldn't even mind it that much if it only skipped when actually mixing |
| 22:24.40 | mjr | wonder what the hell it's doing |
| 22:27.41 | mjr | a fuckload of rt_sigprocmask calls to be sure, at least when straced |
| 22:30.08 | wurp2 | mjr: thanks, I'll have to play with ogg123 when I get my neo back |
| 22:30.13 | mjr | (and some ioctl()s on /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p - does it really need to, just playing a stream) |
| 22:30.20 | *** join/#openmoko neo_ (n=neo@dslb-088-068-044-138.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 22:41.13 | balrog-kun | the ioctls come from libasound i believe |
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| 22:41.51 | mjr | come to think of it, it uses threads, right? the sigprocmask stuff might be there... |
| 22:43.01 | balrog-kun | yeah, but i would think it would do that only on the creation of new threads not in runtime |
| 22:43.11 | balrog-kun | or some _join() or something calls |
| 22:44.43 | mjr | maybe it's synchronizing the hell out of its threads |
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| 22:46.29 | Kryczek | swapcontext() me harder |
| 22:46.34 | Kryczek | :p |
| 22:50.24 | mjr | incidentally, does anyone know why screen hogs a shitload of cpu when opening a new terminal? |
| 22:50.28 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 22:51.43 | mjr | interestingly, pulseaudio doesn't seem to have multiple threads running according to /proc/pid/task |
| 22:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 22:51.57 | mjr | wonder what's doing that rt_sigprocmaskfest then |
| 22:52.31 | balrog-kun | i think most of the new screen terminal opening time is taken by new bash starting up |
| 22:54.05 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-225-118.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:54.06 | mjr | oh right, it's before the process name is updated |
| 22:54.15 | mjr | silly me |
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| 23:25.24 | mjr | Or. I could notice there's a prebuilt module. |
| 23:30.45 | mjr | it does all of that rt_sigprocmask shit with the oss sink also |
| 23:31.10 | mjr | tens of calls per write to the audio device |
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| 23:32.02 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: you could perhaps, if you are using so little that you can go as far as slow mode, once in a while "wake up" to a faster mode to talk to the USB block? |
| 23:32.14 | SpeedEvil | I have no clue. |
| 23:32.29 | SpeedEvil | The datasheet simply notes 'USB host may not be stable at under 30Mhz' |
| 23:32.33 | SpeedEvil | (or some figure) |
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| 23:33.00 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: does GTA02 have a working BT IRQ? if it has, the USB block could even be powered down on it while in SLOW... |
| 23:33.18 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, no. |
| 23:33.38 | SpeedEvil | I have no schematics, and accept unsolicited DCCs. |
| 23:38.18 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I thought I saw some interesting pin in the gpio.txt... |
| 23:39.08 | cesarb | GPF2IEINT2PIO_2bluetooth wakeup GPIO |
| 23:39.22 | cesarb | urgh IRC |
| 23:40.03 | Stephmw | love those tabs |
| 23:40.03 | cesarb | anyway, it's GPF2 from trunk/doc/hardware/GTA02v4/gpio.txt |
| 23:40.04 | SpeedEvil | Don't know |
| 23:40.18 | SpeedEvil | I've not discussed 02 with those that know |
| 23:40.53 | SpeedEvil | GPF2 is curently GSM enable. |
| 23:41.03 | SpeedEvil | I vaguely remember talk about that changing |
| 23:41.08 | cesarb | anyway, we might simply accept the BT headset button won't work except for answering calls. It'd be a minor sacrifice... |
| 23:41.38 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 23:41.46 | SpeedEvil | won't work in low power mode |
| 23:41.58 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 23:42.24 | SpeedEvil | Has the headset hold button issue been fixed? |
| 23:42.30 | SpeedEvil | I've mislaid my headset. |
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| 23:43.11 | SpeedEvil | (that it diddn't generate events) |
| 23:44.39 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: no idea |
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