| 00:05.06 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@cpe-67-9-161-48.austin.res.rr.com) |
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| 00:15.29 | NineX|Moko | mmontour: you should add info that new u-boot with your workaround can successfully autoboot system from nand |
| 00:20.10 | idioterna | i think my gsm stopped working after an update |
| 00:20.50 | idioterna | cpuinfo_id doesn't seem to exist and init.d/gsmd start fails |
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| 00:28.15 | RayDar | idioterna: Oh my. That sounds bad. Maybe it's a mismatch. |
| 00:28.24 | idioterna | it seems cpuinfo_id was replaced by machine_id that returns lowercased string |
| 00:28.45 | idioterna | i've fixed it on my own but i guess it's bound to get overwritten by updates |
| 00:29.07 | idioterna | is ipkg upgrade capable of downgrading stuff? |
| 00:29.31 | RayDar | idioterna asks a lot of good questions. |
| 00:29.48 | idioterna | hehe |
| 00:30.13 | idioterna | well if i answer any of them myself, i'll be sure to let you know |
| 00:30.38 | idioterna | i've already set everything up for python development and it works great |
| 00:30.43 | RayDar | ~freerunner |
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| 00:37.46 | josch | raster, wb :-) |
| 00:38.01 | idioterna | well |
| 00:38.03 | idioterna | it works now |
| 00:38.14 | idioterna | properly, too |
| 00:38.29 | *** join/#openmoko demaledetti (n=ste@151.16.92.58) |
| 00:40.16 | idioterna | the package initscripts - 1.0-r104 - /etc/init.d/functions |
| 00:40.24 | idioterna | oops |
| 00:40.51 | raster | :) |
| 00:41.02 | idioterna | anyway, this version of initscripts seems to be incompatible with libgsmd - 0.1+svnr3808-r39 |
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| 00:49.17 | RayDar | has anyone tried to use skype with the openmoko? |
| 00:49.42 | mjr | no, as there's no software available |
| 00:49.49 | Stephmw | it'd be hard to unless Skype released a binary compatible with the hardware |
| 00:49.54 | mjr | as skype is proprietary |
| 00:49.56 | RayDar | Oh yeah |
| 00:50.01 | RayDar | but there are other voips |
| 00:50.06 | RayDar | lemme see |
| 00:50.15 | borg_ | i think there is skype on n810 which is arm too, isn't it? |
| 00:50.26 | RayDar | sip |
| 00:50.31 | mjr | some have said they've messed around with sip |
| 00:50.43 | mjr | dunno if integration work has progressed any |
| 00:50.52 | idioterna | i've received my sms manually |
| 00:51.06 | idioterna | isn't there an event reporting mechanism in gsmd? |
| 00:51.20 | RayDar | idioterna: There is |
| 00:51.54 | idioterna | yeah, because it pops up "connected to yaddayadda" every time it receives an SMS |
| 00:52.06 | idioterna | but it doesn't actually respond to the message properly |
| 00:54.44 | I-MOD | there are at least a couple of OSS sip stacks out there |
| 00:54.54 | mjr | yes there are |
| 00:55.04 | I-MOD | just lacking integration? |
| 00:55.13 | RayDar | mjr: I am thinking sip through gprs |
| 00:55.13 | mjr | basically yes |
| 00:55.27 | idioterna | i think mjr is right... usability is limited with bluetooth/usb network connectivity |
| 00:55.29 | mjr | there was somebody going to work on gsmd integration, dunno if he's done anything |
| 00:55.44 | mjr | RayDar, which will give you crappy calls |
| 00:55.52 | idioterna | with wifi, you'd get a cheap headset |
| 00:55.58 | idioterna | gprs is likely quite expensive |
| 00:56.07 | idioterna | and the latency kills you |
| 00:56.17 | mjr | depends on where you live, here data plans are cheap |
| 00:56.26 | SpeedEvil | latency still kills you. |
| 00:56.30 | mjr | but the latency _will_ kill |
| 00:56.39 | mjr | as said, crappy calls |
| 00:56.43 | SpeedEvil | It's adequate for push-talk |
| 00:56.47 | Stephmw | 300ms is the most that users will tolerate |
| 00:56.52 | idioterna | here gprs is quite expensive, but 3G data is much cheaper |
| 00:56.53 | RayDar | mjr: yeah, probably but free crappy calls if you get an unlimited data only plan ($29/month) |
| 00:56.54 | Stephmw | (studies, etc) |
| 00:56.58 | I-MOD | data transfer rates as well depending on how close you are to the tower |
| 00:57.01 | idioterna | and it has much less latency |
| 00:57.05 | I-MOD | and what codec you use |
| 00:57.20 | mjr | RayDar, to the extent that you'll probably rather not call. |
| 00:57.44 | idioterna | which makes it even cheaper as you save time AND money :) |
| 00:57.54 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: I'd disagree somewhat. |
| 00:57.57 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: |
| 00:58.05 | NineX | ha my neo are working as gprs router |
| 00:58.12 | RayDar | mjr: I hardly ever talk on my phone anyways. |
| 00:58.16 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: I think that push-talk mode could be a 'voice SMS' maybe |
| 00:58.19 | RayDar | An interesting idea. |
| 00:58.29 | mjr | RayDar, great, so don't bother with the voip/gprs idea |
| 00:58.41 | mjr | SpeedEvil, yeah, that's sane |
| 00:59.16 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: 300ms for a 2-way conversation ;) |
| 00:59.24 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: one-way soundbites... well |
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| 00:59.56 | mjr | Stephmw, it's useful for stuff, certainly not for all uses, but most of all feasible. |
| 01:00.02 | RayDar | mjr: The problem is that I would like to use my phone for a lot of data and a small amount of voice. There aren't any reasonably priced plans for that. The $29/month with unlimited data and shitty voip->gprs might be just the ticket. |
| 01:00.11 | RayDar | mjr: At T-Mobile I mean. |
| 01:00.17 | mjr | RayDar, yes well, just forget it |
| 01:00.46 | mjr | I mean really, low bandwidth, high latency and no quality of service is a _fucking bad_ combo |
| 01:02.04 | RayDar | But it would beat paying $40 extra per month for something I seldom use...... maybe |
| 01:02.27 | idioterna | the wiki says "receive SMS" is a feature missing from libgsmd-tool |
| 01:02.29 | mjr | (generally, about sip, it'd be nice if whoever got around to it used gnu ccrtp or something else with zrtp support for the streaming) |
| 01:02.47 | mjr | RayDar, what, you have to pay $40 a month to be able to make calls?!? |
| 01:02.53 | mjr | oh yeah, this was America... |
| 01:03.19 | RayDar | Our phone/data plans suck quite roundly in the US. |
| 01:03.33 | rwhitby | Not as badly as Australia, which has no flat rate data plans ... |
| 01:03.48 | mjr | well, I see your desire for voip over gprs, but it's still not a good idea |
| 01:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@a213-22-248-246.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 01:03.49 | RayDar | I would love to see Google buy the some spectrum and really shake things up. |
| 01:04.36 | idioterna | state: EVENT: Incoming SMS stored at location 5 |
| 01:04.41 | mjr | of course, not including any of those customer-screwing "minutes" or smses |
| 01:04.46 | RayDar | mjr has a schweet plan |
| 01:05.08 | idioterna | where did this come from? |
| 01:05.17 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@cpe-213-157-235-31.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 01:05.24 | idioterna | the incoming SMS message i mean? |
| 01:05.27 | idioterna | o, polz |
| 01:05.44 | SpeedEvil | idioterna: the world. |
| 01:05.48 | polz | idioterna: what brings you here ? |
| 01:05.54 | SpeedEvil | idioterna: it's what your phone is connected to. |
| 01:06.09 | idioterna | polz: i got me a grampa frost present :) |
| 01:06.24 | idioterna | SpeedEvil: yeah but i'd like this to crop up in a gui |
| 01:06.26 | polz | idioterna: hehe, is it a Neo 1973 ? |
| 01:06.36 | idioterna | polz: mhm |
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| 01:06.44 | polz | idioterna: didn't I _tell_ you it sucks as a phone ? |
| 01:06.59 | polz | I mean.. you saw it discharge before the PC, didn't you ? |
| 01:07.13 | polz | serves you right ;) |
| 01:07.29 | idioterna | polz: my hideous plan is to use it as a GSM modem until i can find some docs on it |
| 01:07.51 | idioterna | like how gsmd communicates with the rest of the software |
| 01:07.53 | polz | I think there's plenty of docs in the wiki |
| 01:08.04 | RayDar | Is there lightning outside your window as you concoct your hideous plan? |
| 01:08.12 | polz | oh, so you intend to use openmoko, not qtopia ? |
| 01:08.25 | idioterna | yes |
| 01:08.34 | RayDar | It could be nice one day. |
| 01:08.35 | idioterna | for now. |
| 01:08.38 | polz | RayDar: there are communist red elves, too |
| 01:09.18 | polz | idioterna: I think you're supposed to use phonekit to communicate with the modem these days |
| 01:09.22 | idioterna | whispering conspiracies and shuffling small red books |
| 01:09.35 | polz | idioterna: that has a nice little dcop interface |
| 01:09.45 | idioterna | ** (process:1265): WARNING **: Failed to make a connection to the session bus: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session |
| 01:10.06 | idioterna | openmoko's not running dcop |
| 01:10.26 | idioterna | but it is running dbus |
| 01:10.50 | polz | sorry, I'm a bit sleepy |
| 01:10.53 | polz | I meant dbus |
| 01:11.21 | idioterna | ah |
| 01:11.37 | polz | idioterna: you have to export some env. vars to connect to DBUS |
| 01:11.45 | polz | but I've forgoten which ones |
| 01:12.14 | idioterna | no docs on phone-kit in the wiki |
| 01:12.52 | polz | btw, which version of openmoko should I download if I want to be able to send and receive SMSs without using a terminal ? |
| 01:12.53 | idioterna | /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket, haha |
| 01:15.07 | polz | must... get... sleep |
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| 02:05.10 | linux_ | [A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A |
| 02:06.24 | josch | linux_, this is no utf8 isn't it? |
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| 02:35.27 | RayDar | It can't play mp3's? |
| 02:35.28 | RayDar | ! |
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| 02:37.01 | cb23 | RayDar, mpg123? |
| 02:37.31 | RayDar | I read something somewhere saying that it couldn't play mp3's yet due to licensing problems. |
| 02:38.11 | cb23 | yes. also, you cant watch dvd's on your linux box due to copyright issues ;( |
| 02:38.17 | cb23 | s/;(/;)/ |
| 02:38.35 | idioterna | you can in most of europe |
| 02:39.17 | RayDar | Hehe. I guess my home theater is in violation then. |
| 02:39.22 | idioterna | are there any examples of event-driven apps for openmoko? |
| 02:40.56 | RayDar | I won't get BlueRay until it is hacked/cracked |
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| 02:49.45 | summatusmentis | I thought it mostly was? |
| 02:54.38 | RayDar | summatusmentis: Last I heard, they cracked some key but the publishers can "revoke" it and new discs won't use it and are therefore still encrypted. |
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| 02:56.09 | summatusmentis | RayDar: my understanding was that disks using that key were susceptible, but publishers could change the key on upcoming disks |
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| 03:06.26 | RayDar | summatusmentis: Correct. We agree. Since there are relatively few Blue Ray discs, the vast majority (yet to be created) won't use the cracked (revoked) key. |
| 03:06.51 | summatusmentis | right |
| 03:08.02 | RayDar | I won't buy a Blue Ray system until a far better crack happens. |
| 03:15.46 | cb23 | its really really dumb |
| 03:16.01 | cb23 | at most it will irritate people making their own rips |
| 03:16.15 | cb23 | scene groups will probably find their own little key, and not put it out on the web |
| 03:16.33 | cb23 | so there will still be releases... dumb mpaa, dumb drm |
| 03:16.57 | RayDar | very dumb indeed |
| 03:17.51 | RayDar | DRM only works when you have a monopoly on content |
| 03:24.33 | doc|work | I won't buy one ever |
| 03:24.52 | doc|work | if they want to play hard to get, then I'm not going to keep trying |
| 03:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 03:26.57 | RayDar | I rent a lot of DVD's and play them on my home theater. If one day the video store has mostly, or only, BlueRay, I will need a player. I am hopeful that by that time, a Linux player exists. |
| 03:39.10 | doc|work | I still wouldn't give them my money |
| 03:39.27 | doc|work | sony get a royalty on blu-ray disks and I'm never giving them fuckers money again :/ |
| 03:40.10 | KrisAbsinthe | amen |
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| 03:44.19 | RayDar | I must say, I completely disagree with Sony's DRM views. |
| 03:44.35 | RayDar | They cripple the market |
| 03:45.41 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 03:46.07 | RayDar | Sony would rather own a crippled market than be a player in a much larger market.... sounds like a certain software company |
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| 03:49.01 | KrisAbsinthe | none of these companies realize if they play into linux users they would make alot more money. |
| 03:49.44 | KrisAbsinthe | They dont have to offer open source to be a friend of the open source community |
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| 04:05.06 | daMaestro | yess, dialer is fixed :-D |
| 04:05.34 | KrisAbsinthe | yay |
| 04:09.52 | baird | hmm... IBM's PC division didn't do too well when everyone standardized on 'Wintel'.. |
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| 04:44.41 | KrisAbsinthe | trying to access my TV card via vlc and the display variable is set to my moko. getting this error BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied) any ideas? |
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| 05:23.35 | wurp2 | KrisAbsinthe: You need to 'xhost +' on your moko? |
| 05:28.43 | KrisAbsinthe | I did i can use many other apps, streaming dvds like this works, just not my TV card |
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| 05:44.36 | wurp2 | Weird. |
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| 06:14.21 | Linux_Galore | wish someone would make a FOSS PMP with a 4-5" LCD |
| 06:16.00 | Linux_Galore | right now all the Linux PMP's seem to have hooks in them to restrict your ability to do anything |
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| 06:33.05 | Linux_Galore | hmm |
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| 07:18.12 | nadio | any gsm related channel here on freenode? |
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| 10:09.06 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 10:11.40 | josch | good night! |
| 10:21.24 | nadio | any gsm related channel here on freenode? |
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| 10:35.17 | zilux | do some of you notice a lack of sound after a recent build? |
| 10:36.39 | zilux | here module /lib/modules/2.6.22.5-moko11/kernel/sound/soc/snd-soc-core.ko |
| 10:36.45 | zilux | is missing in my rootfs |
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| 10:54.09 | NineX | i don't have problems but i use bleding edge |
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| 10:55.20 | zilux | NineX: ok, thanks |
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| 12:04.30 | spydon | Maybe March, weeho! |
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| 12:08.29 | spydon | So in march you can maybe buy the developer edition of gta02 or is it just sent to developers? |
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| 12:10.48 | polz | spydon: anyone was able to buy a gta01, so I guess gta02 would be the same |
| 12:11.09 | spydon | yeah nice |
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| 12:13.44 | idioterna | i've succeeded in automating SMS sending and receiving, but i still don't know where to poll for events properly |
| 12:15.16 | spydon | Where are you from, idioterna? :P |
| 12:15.22 | idioterna | .si |
| 12:15.38 | spydon | what does idioterna mean in .si? :P |
| 12:15.51 | idioterna | one of lars von trier's best movies? :) |
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| 12:16.23 | spydon | Ah I see :P |
| 12:16.23 | idioterna | i know what it means in .se, don't worry :) |
| 12:16.38 | spydon | ok hehe :P |
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| 12:27.36 | jonathan-br-ba | guyz i want to help develop something but i dont know C only python, php, can i help in something? |
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| 12:36.11 | josch | jonathan-br-ba, python is just great - you can develop apps in python for openmoko just fine |
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| 12:37.39 | jonathan-br-ba | josch: great i will search about heh |
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| 12:40.15 | idioterna | event notifications still bother me |
| 12:40.25 | jonathan-br-ba | exit |
| 12:40.29 | idioterna | i can't seem to find any docs on the subject |
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| 12:42.49 | josch | idioterna, what do you want to do? |
| 12:43.38 | idioterna | be notified if the phone receives an SMS |
| 12:43.49 | josch | hrhr |
| 12:43.58 | idioterna | and i don't think tailing the gsm.log file is the right thing to do :) |
| 12:44.18 | josch | idioterna, do you want to use gsmd for sms handling? |
| 12:44.24 | idioterna | yeah, why not |
| 12:44.43 | josch | just asked because I prefer the python implementation of gsmd |
| 12:44.47 | idioterna | anything considered safe |
| 12:44.53 | idioterna | i've just installed it |
| 12:44.57 | idioterna | i mean python-gsmd |
| 12:45.07 | idioterna | from http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=14 |
| 12:45.26 | josch | ah this one |
| 12:45.31 | josch | so you write in python |
| 12:45.36 | idioterna | sure |
| 12:45.48 | idioterna | i love python :) |
| 12:47.34 | idioterna | are there any other python implementations of gsmd? |
| 12:47.47 | josch | there are |
| 12:47.57 | josch | python-gsmd you found is only a binding to gsmd |
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| 12:48.03 | idioterna | yes |
| 12:48.08 | josch | but there is even an implementation that replaces gsmd |
| 12:48.16 | idioterna | altogether? |
| 12:48.18 | josch | and is imho much cleaner and more stable |
| 12:48.23 | idioterna | with more docs than gsmd? :) |
| 12:48.36 | idioterna | url please :) |
| 12:49.09 | josch | idioterna, well the code is only 500 lines so a doc is not really needed |
| 12:49.19 | idioterna | that figures |
| 12:49.36 | idioterna | but i'm prepared to invest some time to fill out docstrings |
| 12:49.42 | josch | idioterna, http://projects.linuxtogo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/software/py-proto/?root=smartphones |
| 12:49.59 | idioterna | it makes it a lot easier for other people to get started |
| 12:50.04 | josch | idioterna, and as a very special it communicates via dbus |
| 12:50.12 | idioterna | ah, wonderful |
| 12:50.16 | josch | so this solves your question with events |
| 12:50.20 | idioterna | yeah |
| 12:50.25 | josch | and this is also why I prefer this one |
| 12:50.27 | idioterna | i thought gsmd didn't really do that too well |
| 12:50.35 | josch | yepp |
| 12:50.57 | idioterna | another question: how do i check this code out without messing with the browser? |
| 12:51.06 | josch | via svn? |
| 12:51.17 | idioterna | yeah, what's the svn url? |
| 12:51.43 | josch | svn checkout svn://projects.linuxtogo.org/svn/smartphones/trunk/software/py-proto |
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| 12:54.35 | idioterna | now we're getting somewhere |
| 12:54.39 | idioterna | this is just beautiful |
| 12:55.14 | josch | idioterna, just ask me or emdete (the dev of this code) if you have any question |
| 12:55.35 | idioterna | do you accept patches? :) |
| 12:55.56 | josch | idioterna, emdete surely will |
| 12:56.07 | idioterna | i love your coding style, too |
| 12:56.17 | josch | ah noo - this is not my code ^^ |
| 12:56.27 | josch | as I said emdete wrote it |
| 12:56.28 | idioterna | i think real tab chars make zero ambiguity |
| 12:56.29 | idioterna | hehe |
| 12:56.37 | idioterna | ok |
| 12:56.41 | idioterna | i'll thank him |
| 12:56.58 | josch | I'm in close contact with emdete but only for testing it and writing dbus apps on top of it |
| 12:57.59 | idioterna | that's something i'm aspiring to as well |
| 12:58.06 | idioterna | thanks a lot for these pointers |
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| 12:58.12 | idioterna | it's oh so much clearer now |
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| 13:46.19 | PBeck | hi |
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| 13:49.21 | spydon | hi |
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| 13:54.53 | asus_ | why |
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| 14:29.17 | pjb | do people know if the gta02 will be shipping in march with any real justification? |
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| 14:30.48 | zedstar | pjb i doubt consumer ready version but maybe developer ready but who knows |
| 14:31.20 | pjb | based on the name of the conversation |
| 14:31.25 | pjb | where it says not to ask |
| 14:31.59 | pjb | does anyone have the developer model and if so how usable is the gui as a phone at current time |
| 14:33.14 | zedstar | pjb there are power management issues amongst other things so not very |
| 14:33.22 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 14:33.42 | zedstar | i did actually today for the first time take mine out and use gps + gprs for a couple of hours |
| 14:34.23 | pjb | how rapid is development progress |
| 14:34.23 | balrog-kun | pjb: not really usable as a phone, one problem is the gui + gsmd which don't work so well yet, but if you flash for example qtopia then this problem goes away |
| 14:34.38 | balrog-kun | the power management issues are the second problem |
| 14:35.05 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@host20-74-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:35.17 | bedboi | cool stuff: http://folks.o-hand.com/iain/gypsy/gypsy-tutorial.html |
| 14:35.28 | bedboi | i was not aware of this |
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| 14:35.44 | zedstar | bedboi yeh it looks good |
| 14:35.55 | bedboi | the api is very clean |
| 14:35.57 | bedboi | and it is C |
| 14:36.03 | zedstar | yeh dbus stuff is kewl |
| 14:36.07 | bedboi | yep |
| 14:36.49 | bedboi | moreover it seems to have a more modern design if compared to gpsd |
| 14:37.10 | bedboi | is anyone using it on neo? |
| 14:37.15 | zedstar | seeing as the guys at o-hand work on openmoko gui etc i would imagine this may also make it in to the framework |
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| 14:38.18 | balrog-kun | i used it on openmoko once, but in the emulated neo |
| 14:38.46 | balrog-kun | i only used the commandline gypsy client because i was only testing stuff |
| 14:38.46 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: converts the NMEA to xml, then uses xslt to translate it into a displayed page on the browser? |
| 14:38.59 | anrp | xml... |
| 14:39.00 | anrp | lol |
| 14:39.00 | balrog-kun | and wanted to avoid gpsd |
| 14:39.28 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: i'm talkin' about the lib |
| 14:39.32 | bedboi | it is very clean |
| 14:39.49 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: I know - I'm just commenting on some 'modern' soltuions. |
| 14:39.54 | bedboi | ah |
| 14:39.58 | bedboi | no, i hate XML |
| 14:40.04 | bedboi | i don't find it modern |
| 14:40.13 | bedboi | it's just a waste of bytes |
| 14:40.21 | balrog-kun | well, gypsy api is quite reasonable |
| 14:40.22 | zedstar | didnt realise it used xml |
| 14:40.35 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: after finding some code that does 'find the centre of a polygon' that takes many milliseconds. |
| 14:41.13 | roh | zedstar poky and what we use is quite similar from an app-writers point of view afaik |
| 14:41.13 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: lol |
| 14:41.38 | SpeedEvil | (dozen point polygon) |
| 14:41.54 | SpeedEvil | And it looked like there were no major inefficiencies in the code. |
| 14:41.55 | bedboi | btw C code written in '90 (on average) is far from being well designed. |
| 14:42.07 | SpeedEvil | I totally agree. |
| 14:42.23 | bedboi | object oriented C has solved a lot of issues |
| 14:42.38 | bedboi | there's still people that has a mis-conception of C |
| 14:42.38 | SpeedEvil | But you have a whole lot more leeway for bad design when you're running close to the hardware, rather than once you're 4 layers from it, each layer being slow. |
| 14:43.07 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: i agree, i had huge problems with dbus |
| 14:43.16 | roh | bedboi well.. object oriented c is in my opinion what the g-foo world is trying to do ;) |
| 14:43.18 | bedboi | in a project where latencies where crucial |
| 14:43.20 | anrp | mmm, everybody loves cakes... cakes have layers! |
| 14:43.29 | bedboi | roh: yep |
| 14:43.34 | bedboi | s/where/were |
| 14:43.42 | roh | bedboi you know vala? |
| 14:43.51 | bedboi | roh: yep i used it a little bit |
| 14:43.56 | bedboi | btw it's still immature imho |
| 14:44.03 | zedstar | but i am mad |
| 14:44.12 | bedboi | roh: plus, it is too high level for me |
| 14:44.39 | bedboi | memcpy is my best friend |
| 14:44.52 | roh | http://live.gnome.org/Vala (for the rest here) .. quite cool. and does work on the mokoi |
| 14:44.57 | roh | -i |
| 14:45.09 | bedboi | roh: i agree, potentially it is a very good project |
| 14:45.26 | bedboi | the C code produced from the `compiler` is not that bad |
| 14:45.32 | bedboi | it's readable |
| 14:45.36 | zedstar | Scheme is very minimal and compiles to C so it is actually not bad for embedded dev |
| 14:45.55 | zedstar | people just hate all the brackets! |
| 14:46.17 | roh | bedboi it can give quite an edge to app programming. but i imagine libs being written as usual for some till still |
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| 14:47.09 | bedboi | roh: yep, i totally agree. I hate developing very high level stuff and C is boring at that level |
| 14:48.09 | roh | jap. if python would be optimized some more and have a reasonably small runtime.. but atm i do not believe in scripting above shell or so in embedded, same for vm-based stuff |
| 14:50.56 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:52.50 | SpeedEvil | I've found lots of stupid uses for awk. |
| 14:53.05 | SpeedEvil | It's compact, reasonably flexible, not too slow. |
| 14:54.20 | zedstar | that's the great thing about this kind of phone project...there are lots of choices for dev |
| 14:54.25 | pjb | recommendations for projects to get involved with |
| 14:54.51 | mickeyl | well |
| 14:55.08 | mickeyl | given hardware accellerations i predict a full python-based environment being feasible for gta03 |
| 14:55.23 | mickeyl | it already is fast enough on the n810 |
| 14:55.24 | roh | SpeedEvil but awk is pain for anything complex.. believe , ive written a backup system with it |
| 14:55.29 | raboof | is java-pkg dead? its project.openmoko.org page seems quite empty, and last SVN write was 5 months ago... |
| 14:55.53 | SpeedEvil | roh: yes - stretching it too far can be silly. I've done real-time DSP in it. |
| 14:56.01 | roh | mickeyl hrhr.. yeah.. but thats only due to gta02 having enough flash and ram for the runtime*eg* |
| 14:56.12 | raboof | anyway, things like powermanagement and phonecall software is much more important at this point anyway of course :) |
| 14:56.21 | mickeyl | sure, you shouldn't start < 128MB RAM |
| 14:56.27 | Sup3rkiddo | +1 |
| 14:56.28 | mickeyl | but i don't see future smartphones having less |
| 14:56.36 | mickeyl | the runtime costs 10MB flash |
| 14:56.38 | mickeyl | that's not much |
| 14:56.45 | roh | smartphones yes. but what is with routers? |
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| 14:56.53 | mickeyl | no idea |
| 14:56.58 | mickeyl | i was just commenting on smartphones |
| 14:57.02 | mickeyl | and set top boxes |
| 14:57.04 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure how much power having only 64M of flash would have saved. Not having to bring the address bus outr of the 2442. |
| 14:57.05 | roh | these are still having 4mb flash and 16 mb ram |
| 14:57.07 | mickeyl | and gadgets like that |
| 14:57.32 | roh | stb also shape that down to the bare minimum if its not intentionally built for linux |
| 14:57.36 | SpeedEvil | (for freerunner) |
| 14:58.18 | roh | SpeedEvil you mean ram. flash is all in the mcp |
| 14:58.35 | SpeedEvil | roh: Oh - I thought 64M flash was outside, 64 inside. |
| 14:59.25 | SpeedEvil | If ity's RAM, then no, going to 64 probably doesn't make any sense. |
| 15:00.00 | raboof | does jalimo provide J2ME or only J2SE? |
| 15:00.09 | roh | mcp3 4 and 54 all have 64mb ram afaik and 128, 256, 256mb flash |
| 15:00.41 | josch | mickeyl, isn't there anything like psyco for arm? |
| 15:00.50 | mickeyl | no |
| 15:00.55 | josch | :-/ |
| 15:00.55 | mickeyl | unfortunately not |
| 15:01.08 | mickeyl | but like i said |
| 15:01.14 | mickeyl | the n810 is fast enough for a full python environment |
| 15:01.16 | roh | the maxclock is 400, 400, 500.. and the aviability 'yes, no, yes |
| 15:01.22 | mickeyl | i expect future neo's being up to par as well |
| 15:01.28 | mickeyl | perhaps even the 02 |
| 15:01.31 | mickeyl | i have yet to experiment |
| 15:01.37 | Sup3rkiddo | gta02? |
| 15:01.43 | roh | mickeyl what clock does the 810 run at? |
| 15:01.53 | josch | mickeyl, I'm just about to try out python-efl on gta02 :-) |
| 15:01.58 | josch | ah 01 |
| 15:02.00 | josch | of course |
| 15:02.13 | mickeyl | TI OMAP 2420, 400Mhz |
| 15:02.35 | mickeyl | the OMAP runs circles around the Samsung, of course |
| 15:02.37 | roh | mickeyl ah.. is that arm9 or 11? |
| 15:02.38 | Sup3rkiddo | me forgets, whats the version released last year? 01? |
| 15:02.44 | Sup3rkiddo | owe well, never mind |
| 15:02.48 | mickeyl | roh: armv6 |
| 15:02.55 | SpeedEvil | Sup3rkiddo : yes - 01 |
| 15:02.56 | mickeyl | so, 11, i think |
| 15:02.58 | zedstar | anyone seen any papers/studies on battery life from say running a python app against a c app on a handheld...is there any noticable impact from the extra cpu cycles? |
| 15:03.10 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: at the moment unfortuantely little |
| 15:03.15 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-154-184-189.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 15:03.22 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: the CPU does not have that much saving when idle |
| 15:03.22 | Sup3rkiddo | unfortunately? |
| 15:03.27 | roh | mickeyl then, well , of course .. that one has real caches, right? |
| 15:03.31 | Sup3rkiddo | ~lart SpeedEvil |
| 15:03.31 | apt | beats SpeedEvil to within 2.54cm of his life |
| 15:03.46 | mickeyl | roh: yah, lots of internel sram |
| 15:03.46 | zedstar | ah that is interesting |
| 15:03.46 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: and power saving is not implemented yet -0 someone is working on clock frequency varying. |
| 15:03.59 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: and at that time, it shoudl get lots better. |
| 15:04.03 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: well - worse |
| 15:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko asus (i=asus@221.223.101.220) |
| 15:04.25 | zedstar | but on a working handheld with good power management is there little impact of extra cpu cycles? |
| 15:04.37 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: no - great impact |
| 15:04.50 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: it's only if the PM doesn't work well that there is little impact |
| 15:05.26 | zedstar | ok right that is what i thought....so therefore python clocking up extra cpu over a similar c app should be noticable? |
| 15:05.30 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: with screen off, and cpu slowing, it should get maybe 20 hours when on and working 'normally' |
| 15:05.58 | zedstar | imagine say processing xml data with python and say C on a handheld |
| 15:06.03 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B034B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:06.08 | asus | can have a querty fingerboard? |
| 15:06.20 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: basically, neglecting the screen. |
| 15:06.30 | zedstar | yeh neglecting screen |
| 15:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-215-221.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 15:06.39 | josch | zedstar, you never will process xml with python - you will use bindings to C libs |
| 15:06.43 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: the CPU and RAM and stuff use perhaps 5% of CPU/hour when 'running'. |
| 15:07.05 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: 5% of batteryt |
| 15:07.22 | Sup3rkiddo | josch, hi |
| 15:07.23 | adjaxio | Bonjour Bonne année, bonne santé |
| 15:07.33 | josch | hi Sup3rkiddo |
| 15:07.37 | zedstar | ah so not a big amount for noticable improvements |
| 15:07.41 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: at full speed, active, it needs perhaps 15%-20 of battery/hour. |
| 15:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko rnx (n=rnx@unaffiliated/rnx) |
| 15:08.36 | zedstar | thanks speedevil |
| 15:08.48 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: these are very rough ideas. |
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| 15:09.01 | zedstar | be cool to see some papers on this stuff |
| 15:09.18 | zedstar | gotta go out now back in a bit.... |
| 15:09.26 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: pay me to write some, and I will, otherwise I'll just do it slowly :) |
| 15:09.42 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: It should go faster with debug board though. |
| 15:09.55 | zedstar | ahaha ill speak to u about it more in a bit |
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| 15:16.22 | josch | mickeyl, did you also update the bb for python-efl? emdete seems to have some problems with it but he is not available right now |
| 15:17.53 | mickeyl | i did s/DEPENDS/RDEPENDS/ |
| 15:18.06 | mickeyl | that should automatically drag in the necessary efl packages now |
| 15:18.41 | Sup3rkiddo | is bringing e to neo, straight forward? |
| 15:18.47 | mickeyl | efl, yes |
| 15:18.49 | mickeyl | e no |
| 15:19.08 | Sup3rkiddo | hmm, okie dokie |
| 15:19.45 | mickeyl | i mean, it runs |
| 15:19.46 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.228) |
| 15:19.56 | mickeyl | but it's not customized for a smart phone |
| 15:20.19 | Sup3rkiddo | ah, ok...yeah..i understand... |
| 15:20.23 | *** join/#openmoko zazza (n=zazza@ppp-65-39.27-151.libero.it) |
| 15:20.48 | Sup3rkiddo | <rant>e based smartphone GUI would have pwned</rant> |
| 15:21.01 | SpeedEvil | twm! |
| 15:21.12 | mickeyl | don't worry |
| 15:21.20 | mickeyl | if all goes well, we will see a lot more EFL on the Neo soon |
| 15:21.27 | Sup3rkiddo | yay..hi5 |
| 15:21.28 | josch | hrhr |
| 15:21.37 | Sup3rkiddo | SpeedEvil, na..ratpoison |
| 15:22.06 | SpeedEvil | I have run fvwm95, but only remotely |
| 15:23.21 | Sup3rkiddo | cluttr based thing would look jeggjy too |
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| 15:27.14 | KrisAbsinthe | Matchbox desktop works well |
| 15:27.44 | josch | KrisAbsinthe, desktop? |
| 15:28.08 | KrisAbsinthe | yeah, its available at the angstrom repo. |
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| 15:28.43 | josch | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:29.24 | KrisAbsinthe | my project has been to get the desktop enviroment working. I do have a scap on there but not sure if its still available its been a while. ill upload a new one |
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| 15:30.04 | josch | KrisAbsinthe, thx!! |
| 15:30.54 | KrisAbsinthe | np |
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| 15:37.50 | KrisAbsinthe | Damn it, forgot to shutdown the neo, now im in deep discharge. |
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| 15:38.58 | josch | KrisAbsinthe, I suffer with you :-/ |
| 15:40.10 | magellan | does anyone know if it is possible to build with moko makefile now, |
| 15:40.33 | Sup3rkiddo | yeah...it is |
| 15:40.40 | magellan | there has been a problem for about 8 days which prevents building the development image |
| 15:40.53 | magellan | when did you last build? |
| 15:41.07 | Sup3rkiddo | magellan, if its uboot, update your makefile |
| 15:41.14 | Sup3rkiddo | yesterday |
| 15:41.18 | magellan | great |
| 15:41.41 | magellan | well I just did a make update-makefile and am now at make setup |
| 15:42.05 | magellan | so hopefully things will go better this time |
| 15:42.11 | magellan | thanks |
| 15:43.26 | Sup3rkiddo | np..happy hacking |
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| 16:37.08 | balrog-kun | yay, i can see some satellites in the nmea |
| 16:37.14 | balrog-kun | and not using the chroot to run gllin |
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| 16:39.15 | SpeedEvil | :) |
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| 16:42.09 | XorA|gone | balrog-kun: statified? |
| 16:42.18 | SpeedEvil | Made static. |
| 16:42.56 | balrog-kun | XorA|gone: nope, using a custom ELF loader (being created right now) |
| 16:43.18 | XorA|gone | balrog-kun: sweet |
| 16:43.51 | balrog-kun | it can already run most OABI-compiled programs but gllin is though |
| 16:44.04 | balrog-kun | there are C++ exceptions,a nd floating point stuff |
| 16:44.21 | XorA|gone | balrog-kun: oooh, now thats a feature Id love to get into Angstrom |
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| 16:48.38 | balrog-kun | but it's a rather ugly hack, it won't ever be able to run 100% of the binaries |
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| 17:04.36 | balrog-kun | yes!, first fix on my Neo |
| 17:05.00 | Sup3rkiddo | yay, free beer to everyone |
| 17:05.16 | balrog-kun | now i know where i am :D |
| 17:07.51 | Vegar | congrats |
| 17:08.06 | Vegar | can we see the source? |
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| 17:09.18 | balrog-kun | Vegar: http://folks.o-hand.com/andrew/schwartz.git |
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| 17:09.35 | zash | Sup3rkiddo: beer? gimigimigimi |
| 17:09.39 | josch | PYTHON-EFL ON THE NEO WORKS!!! :-D |
| 17:10.13 | Sup3rkiddo | josch, screenshots or it doesnt exist |
| 17:10.47 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, screenshots say nothing - I need a cam to record the performance of the animations |
| 17:11.03 | balrog-kun | Vegar: i'll be updating it a couple times more tonight, so it may be too early to play with source now |
| 17:11.18 | Vegar | balrog-kun: I just wanted to look at it |
| 17:11.20 | Vegar | I don't even have a neo |
| 17:11.23 | SpeedEvil | SMSs are 160 7 bit chars? |
| 17:11.43 | SpeedEvil | How much data can I pack into this reliably? |
| 17:12.00 | Sup3rkiddo | s/screenshots/videos/ |
| 17:12.24 | balrog-kun | SpeedEvil: about 0.0000001 of your DNA sequence |
| 17:13.04 | SpeedEvil | I mean - can I put in 140 or so bytes, and assume that it's binary clean? |
| 17:13.12 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco) |
| 17:13.31 | balrog-kun | i never received a corrupt sms |
| 17:14.25 | Sup3rkiddo | josch, tell me its loads faster than pygtk |
| 17:14.42 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, wait will test this |
| 17:14.52 | Sup3rkiddo | ya..please do |
| 17:15.23 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, DEFINATELY!!! 3seks maximum! |
| 17:16.04 | Sup3rkiddo | efl rocks upside down |
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| 17:22.37 | summatusmentis | efl? |
| 17:22.51 | summatusmentis | I know you're talking about python, what is efl? |
| 17:23.28 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, enligtenment foundation libraries |
| 17:23.53 | summatusmentis | oh, ok |
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| 17:28.01 | josch | summatusmentis, they simply *rock* |
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| 17:28.45 | summatusmentis | josch: I've heard people rave about them, not much of a programmer myself |
| 17:30.54 | CIA-1 | openmoko: 03werner * r3818 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (console-ansi.patch uboot-s3c2410_fb.patch): (log message trimmed) |
| 17:30.54 | CIA-1 | openmoko: Upgrading to upstream version 3afac79ec27b91df185f090b31dad9620779f440 required |
| 17:30.54 | CIA-1 | openmoko: two simple changes. |
| 17:30.54 | CIA-1 | openmoko: uboot-s3c2410_fb.patch: |
| 17:30.55 | CIA-1 | openmoko: - drivers/video/Makefile: trivial patch breakage after upgrade to upstream |
| 17:30.58 | CIA-1 | openmoko: version 3afac79ec27b91df185f090b31dad9620779f440 |
| 17:31.00 | CIA-1 | openmoko: console-ansi.patch: |
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| 18:08.45 | hexmode | just got a neo1973, trying to "make openmoko-devel-image" and got "no providers of build target u-boot-openmoko (for [])" |
| 18:09.09 | hexmode | looking back in the log, I have an error checking out |
| 18:09.21 | hexmode | svn: Unable to find repository location for 'http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2' in revision 3542 |
| 18:09.21 | hexmode | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.28 | hexmode | but it is there! |
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| 18:10.52 | Sup3rkiddo | hexmode, did make update-makefile? |
| 18:11.10 | hexmode | well, I only got it last night, but will do |
| 18:12.20 | hexmode | it failed after update-makefile |
| 18:12.38 | hexmode | update-makefile succeeded, but the co failed |
| 18:14.30 | *** join/#openmoko cruso (n=chatzill@p4FD3E13E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:17.32 | hexmode | yeah, it is... manual co w/o revision works |
| 18:17.44 | hexmode | svn log shows only back to r3764 |
| 18:18.59 | Sup3rkiddo | hexmode, hmm, the upstream uboot has been renamed to u-boot, but the makefile should pick that up if its the latest |
| 18:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-81-80.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:21.41 | cruso | freeeeeeenode... giga guga guck |
| 18:22.16 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 18:22.28 | cruso | uboot.... wroaaaaammmmm |
| 18:22.55 | cruso | giga guga guck |
| 18:22.55 | hexmode | Sup3rkiddo: I think it'd work if I could just force a different revision on the .bb file. Is there a way to do that? |
| 18:23.05 | cruso | yeah |
| 18:23.13 | cruso | giga guga guck |
| 18:24.44 | cruso | yeahhhhhhhhh |
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| 18:29.40 | Sup3rkiddo | hexmode, hmm, it builds fine here |
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| 18:39.09 | hexmode | commenting out openmoko-terminal from the tasks file helped it limp along ;) |
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| 18:41.03 | Sup3rkiddo | :) |
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| 18:49.39 | Marcel_M | hexmode: you can cp http://celtune.morb-design.com/openmoko-terminal2_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.OM-2007.2.applications_3542_.tar.gz to sources |
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| 18:50.01 | hexmode | ah, tyvm |
| 18:50.16 | Marcel_M | so it builds for me |
| 18:50.20 | Marcel_M | np :) |
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| 19:12.51 | hexmode | Marcel_M: putting that .tar.gz in sources didn't help |
| 19:13.07 | hexmode | continuing with the commented out openmoko-terminal |
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| 19:18.49 | Marcel_M | hmm sorry no idea (it worked for me and and some others) |
| 19:20.59 | Marcel_M | hexmode: did you try a "make rebuild-package-openmoko-terminal2" |
| 19:21.11 | hexmode | will try |
| 19:27.25 | hexmode | http://rafb.net/p/hwFe8523.html # What happens |
| 19:28.19 | hexmode | oh |
| 19:28.21 | hexmode | my bad |
| 19:28.22 | hexmode | nm |
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| 19:33.09 | Marcel_M | hexmode: hmm http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m5b2a5fb8 |
| 19:33.21 | Marcel_M | did you rename your .bb ? |
| 19:34.21 | hexmode | yes, I'm an idiot. At least for that ;) |
| 19:35.06 | Marcel_M | :) |
| 19:35.38 | hexmode | actually, I deleted it :( Is there a way to refetch the file from a make target? |
| 19:36.13 | Marcel_M | ill paste it |
| 19:36.19 | Marcel_M | mom |
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| 19:38.51 | Marcel_M | hexmode: http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m7bba7a91 |
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| 19:39.58 | Sonicadvance1 | Can't wait until I get my openmoko :P |
| 19:40.18 | borg_ | ...neo1973... |
| 19:40.19 | borg_ | :) |
| 19:41.19 | Sonicadvance1 | beh |
| 19:41.33 | Sonicadvance1 | I don't mind being wrong. Usually I am |
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| 21:18.50 | CIA-1 | openmoko: 03werner * r3819 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (boot-from-nor.patch series): |
| 21:18.50 | CIA-1 | openmoko: Initialize memory also when booting from NOR. |
| 21:18.50 | CIA-1 | openmoko: boot-from-nor.patch: |
| 21:18.50 | CIA-1 | openmoko: - cpu/arm920t/start.S: added low-level setup if executing from address 0 |
| 21:21.43 | *** part/#openmoko moo (n=sexycows@80.75.108.6) |
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| 21:40.27 | CIA-1 | openmoko: 03werner * r3820 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/scripts/build: Updated to GIT_HEAD 3afac79ec27b91df185f090b31dad9620779f440 and SVN_REV 3819. |
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| 23:04.37 | cesarb_ | ERROR: /scratch/build/cesarb/openmoko/openembedded/packages/dtnrg/dtn_2.5.0.bb:40: unparsed line: 'export BUILD_SYS' while parsing /scratch/build/cesarb/openmoko/openembedded/packages/dtnrg/dtn_2.5.0.bb |
| 23:17.24 | josch | hi! is there a GBA emulator for openmoko? |
| 23:18.12 | *** part/#openmoko Big-Pat (n=chatzill@c-24-118-41-205.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 23:18.15 | mjr | I believe the question would rather be if there's such a thing for gnu/linux |
| 23:18.24 | rwhitby | cesarb: remove lines 30 to 41 on dtn_2.5.0.bb and the build will continue, then bug mickey|dinner about it. |
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| 23:26.51 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8859 - possibly suitable GPS antenna. |
| 23:26.55 | SpeedEvil | Cheep. |
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| 23:28.03 | Vegar | sheep |
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| 23:29.11 | SpeedEvil | sheep http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9465 |
| 23:30.09 | Vegar | haha |
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