IRC log for #openmoko on 20080107

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05:41.53mbufwho is working on qemu-neo1973?
05:53.35*** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-45-12.dialup.xtra.co.nz)
06:11.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1163 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com
06:11.02cdbot2* * cannot send SMS from Contacts
06:11.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1163
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06:13.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1164 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com
06:13.02cdbot2* * no communication history in Contacts
06:13.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1164
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07:17.22CIA-15openmoko: 03andrew * r3778 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (47 files in 7 dirs): Update tree to qemu-0.9.1.
07:22.18*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)
07:24.07*** join/#openmoko Valnar (n=Miranda@ip-62-143-211-37.PH-1411C-BSR64K-01.ish.de)
07:29.10balrog-kunmbuf: me
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08:26.40mbufbalrog-kun, i am stuck with this, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-January/001847.html
08:28.00mbufbalrog-kun, January 7th build
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08:55.39Hopscotchgood morning
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09:44.49CIA-15freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r33 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (pygpsd.py pygsmd.py):
09:44.49CIA-15freesmartphone.org: power on/off added
09:44.49CIA-15freesmartphone.org: allows state for emergency calls (not tested)
09:45.27*** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=dcordes_@unaffiliated/dcordes)
09:47.05*** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de)
10:00.28*** join/#openmoko thseiler (n=Thomas@57-177.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch)
10:03.33gamblerneo has a USB port for keyboard?
10:04.30cjb_ieunpowered
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10:44.48CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r3779 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c):
10:44.48CIA-15openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (on_incoming_ds):
10:44.48CIA-15openmoko: Correct a misinterpretation of how delivery status reports are stored
10:46.43*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@host86-131-188-168.range86-131.btcentralplus.com)
10:47.56*** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F63919.versanet.de)
10:48.52*** part/#openmoko Blafasel (n=darklaji@ts.webtales.4players.de)
10:51.18*** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi)
10:54.17*** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net)
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11:19.05afentsno mailinglist admins monitoring the list? :P
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11:34.26CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r3780 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c):
11:34.26CIA-15openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (scroll_notes_to_bottom_cb), (note_progress_cb),
11:34.26CIA-15openmoko: (page_shown):
11:34.26CIA-15openmoko: Scroll the notes treeview to the end of the list when switching to the
11:34.27CIA-15openmoko: page
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11:42.31farckwhy
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11:48.20bluelightningfarck: because.
11:48.27josch-_-
11:48.28bluelightning;)
11:48.33farckno
11:48.50josch+1
11:49.03farck+2
11:49.06farck+3
11:49.09farck+4
11:49.11farck+5
11:49.11cjb_ie?5
11:49.11bluelightning-1 Flamebait
11:49.13josch-_-
11:49.14farck+6
11:49.16farck+7
11:49.18farck+8
11:49.20farck+9
11:49.23farck+10
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11:49.32farck+14
11:49.35farck+15
11:49.37bluelightning<click> NO CARRIER
11:49.38joschwe know you can count further than 10 now - thanks
11:49.39cjb_iedon't make me /exec -o seq 1 100  on your asses
11:49.43farck+16¨
11:49.46farck+17
11:49.51farck+18¨
11:49.53farck+9
11:49.56farck+3
11:50.00farck+0
11:50.02farck-3
11:50.05farck-6
11:50.09farck-13
11:50.13farck-26
11:50.15cjb_ie3.141592653589...
11:50.15farck-39
11:50.18farck-52
11:50.27cjb_ie2.718281828...
11:50.35joschI'd have written myself a nice python script for this spam
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11:52.46farckno
11:53.00joschI'm so sorry for having started this...
11:54.31farckpoor josch
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12:00.00farckpoor josch
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12:00.22farckpoor pvanhoof
12:00.35pvanhoofpoor?
12:00.44farckyes
12:00.45*** join/#openmoko dorje77 (n=astanese@81-174-61-89.staticnet.ngi.it)
12:00.50farckdo you admit you're poor?
12:01.03pvanhoofSomebody just said something like: "the next guy who'll join is an idiot" ?
12:01.14pvanhooffarck, financially or socially poor?
12:01.18dorje77Oh, really?
12:01.23dorje77:)
12:01.32farcksocially poor
12:03.08farckdo you admit it?
12:03.14madwootai'm filthy rich, sux2bme
12:03.40farckwhy
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12:04.19farckpoor madwoota
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12:22.37hrwhttp://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/01/07/how-to-replace-zaurus-pda/
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12:24.16SpeedEvilhrw: replace the battery.
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12:27.21hrwSpeedEvil: they are available in amazon only (or for high price)
12:27.53SpeedEvilSorry. I tend to assume everyone is not afraid of solutions involving a soldering iron.
12:28.41SpeedEvilAnd there are lots of this size of all sizes of bare cells available on ebay
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12:36.49hrwif I would like to hack battery for Z I would buy new one in amazon via someone in US
12:37.46hrw950mAh one is 13.55usd
12:38.09SpeedEvilAh right, I was assuming they were expensive or unavaialbel.
12:38.11hrw14.99 for original one, 15.95 for 1700mAh one
12:38.30hrw~change 16 usd to pln
12:39.40hrwlooks like time for another US shopping
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13:51.46ScaredyCatjust got an iMIV for th S80 :D
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14:09.04joschCM, if I want to leave germany - should I go to sweden or norway?
14:09.10josch:-D
14:09.42maito.fi \o7
14:10.02mbufjosch, 6 months in SE, 6 months in NO
14:10.13joschmbuf, and then?
14:10.21mbufjosch, come back and ask us
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14:16.15SpeedEvilHey!
14:16.23SpeedEvilanother use for the accelerometers.
14:18.00joschhahahaha
14:18.09mjrexcellent
14:19.52Sup3rkiddoaccelerometers sure will be fun
14:22.40NineXyeah who shake openmoko harder ;)
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15:14.42CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r3781 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c):
15:14.42CIA-15openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (retry_oper_get),
15:14.42CIA-15openmoko: (retry_opers_get), (retry_get_imsi), (on_network_registered),
15:14.42CIA-15openmoko: (moko_network_dispose), (net_msghandler), (phone_msghandler):
15:14.42CIA-15openmoko: Retry retrieval of network details on connecting if they fail (ten
15:14.44CIA-15openmoko: second time-out) - should help reliability of SMS sending
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15:27.09spydonI thought gta02 was just another version of neo1973...
15:29.08cjb_iespydon: yup. second sw developer release aiui
15:29.30spydonaiui? :P
15:29.45cb23as i understand it
15:29.54cb23(afaik)
15:30.08spydonwhat about this freerunner thing then?
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15:30.26spydonisn't that gt02 too?
15:30.48cb23it is
15:30.52cb23gta02 == freerunner
15:31.30spydonso it's like neo1973 freerunner?
15:31.31mwester"freerunner" == marketing hype + gta02
15:31.47spydoni see
15:33.12cb23and its a lot easier to tell your friends too. Hey, what phone did you get? Oh, a freerunner. as opposed to: a g-t-a-0-2 neo1-9-7-3
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15:34.19spydonyeah
15:34.38spydonit was a long time since the last community update...
15:35.08mwesterYeah, OM have been quiet lately.
15:35.13El_Salvadornews from ces 2008?
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15:36.40spydonis ces the same as Consumer Electronics Trade Show? :P
15:36.54cb23spydon, 02?
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15:37.10spydon02? :P
15:37.57El_Salvador<spydon> is ces the same as Consumer Electronics Trade Show? :P
15:38.01El_Salvadormaybe :P
15:38.46spydonhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Current_events
15:38.50spydonthe thing today :P
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15:47.41CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r3782 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c):
15:47.41CIA-15openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (on_incoming_ds):
15:47.41CIA-15openmoko: Don't check the stat of the delivery report, no need as we have the ref
15:47.41CIA-15openmoko: anyway and I must be misinterpreting its meaning. Also switch around a
15:47.42CIA-15openmoko: debug comment to make it more clear.
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15:52.01balrog-kunmbuf: yeah, a number of people reported the same issue before it was magically starting to work at some point, after making some empty files in the right places afaik
15:52.19balrog-kuns/it/but \&/
15:52.26mbufbalrog-kun, thanks!
15:52.42balrog-kunmbuf: i can only assume it's a MokoMakefile issue
15:52.43mbufbalrog-kun, do you have any TODO tasks for qemu?
15:52.57mbufbalrog-kun,  i see
15:53.14balrog-kunmbuf: well, there is a couple of bugzilla bugs open that form my TODO
15:53.25mbufbalrog-kun, ok
15:54.05balrog-kun(but that's stalled at the moment, in favour of a different project)
15:56.12CIA-15openmoko: 03chris * r3783 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-network.c):
15:56.12CIA-15openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-network.c: (stop_retrying),
15:56.12CIA-15openmoko: (on_network_registered), (moko_network_dispose):
15:56.12CIA-15openmoko: Fix possible infinite retrying(?), increase time-out to 15 seconds
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17:02.00teprrrhello, does anyone know if it's possible to build openmoko-devel-image with ubuntu?
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17:05.11wurp2teprrr: Can't you just use the instructions on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ?
17:05.52wurp2There are some known issues where the build stalls trying a fetch, and you have to dig around and find the file name, then search the web for the file & download to your cache directory manually, but other than that I think it should "just work"
17:06.54teprrrwurp2, I'm using it already.. make openmoko-devel-image is what fails on NOTE: package openmoko-devel-image-1.0-r0: task do_rootfs: failed
17:07.20teprrrif I run mkfs.jffs2 command myself, I'll get mkfs.jffs2: Unknown compressor name lzo
17:07.34teprrrand using the mkfs.jffs2 inside the builddir, bash: ./build/tmp/rootfs/usr/bin/mkfs.jffs2: cannot execute binary file
17:07.47teprrr(not compiled for this arch I think)
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17:09.06wurp2Do you see a 'fetch failed' error before that do_rootfs: failed?
17:09.46wurp2I'm not sure I can be much help if you're past that... I got to the fetch problem and didn't know the solution until recently, and haven't gotten back to it.
17:09.59wurp2s/much help/any help/
17:11.35teprrrwurp2, nope, this is all I got: http://pastebin.com/d3a36c9fc
17:13.54teprrrand in that log file I have: Aborted (core dumped)
17:14.10wurp2yeah, yuck
17:20.22wurp2teprrr: Sorry, I dunno anything about it.  Did you just start the build this time, or have you build MokoMakefile before?
17:21.05wurp2'cause if you've done it before I would suggest the obvious - following the clean & rebuild steps outlined in the MokoMakefile page.  And that's the last of the obvious advice I have :-)
17:21.12teprrrwurp2, I've been MokoMakefile all the time, but haven't yet gotten it to complete :P
17:21.33wurp2That's kind of scary, since I'm behind you on it.
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17:23.02teprrrI suppose that's the last phase before it's completed, but.. damn :)
17:23.09teprrrso near, but so far
17:23.28teprrrI wouldn't mind running it through gdb if I knew how to do it
17:24.13wurp2Hmm, do you actually have a core file?
17:24.17wurp2The message says core dumped
17:24.35wurp2If you were interested in running through gdb, it seems instead you could just load the core with gdb
17:25.03teprrrtpr@lumi:~/openmoko$ find . -type f -name core
17:25.04teprrrtpr@lumi:~/openmoko$
17:25.10teprrrlooks like I don't have that, though hmm
17:25.18teprrrperhaps ubuntu is configured per default not to dump cores..
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17:27.07teprrrnah, it isn't inside /var/crash either
17:27.17*** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be)
17:29.06teprrroh, looks like /var/crash is only being populated with something ubuntu specific called apport.. so that's not the right place to look at
17:29.34wurp2Yeah, I have noticed that I don't seem to get core files any more, but I haven't really wanted them so I haven't looked into why.
17:30.57teprrryup, I think it's because some ulimit setting, iirc
17:31.38*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z553b.z.pppool.de)
17:31.39teprrryup, ulimit -a displays the max blocksize as 0
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17:35.12teprrrok, got the core file..
17:35.56joejaxxi tried going to d.o.c but it is inaccessible, but can anyone confirm for me that the consumer version of GTA01 is indeed 600 usd?
17:36.57teprrrCore was generated by `mkfs.jffs2 -x lzo --root=/home/tpr/openmoko/build/tmp/rootfs --faketime --outpu'.
17:37.00teprrrProgram terminated with signal 6, Aborted.
17:37.03teprrr#0  0x00002b34a4fe6095 in ?? ()
17:37.03teprrrthat doesn't help much :/
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17:41.32wurp2Consumer version of gta01 is $300 w/o debugger toolkit, $400 with
17:41.36kdean06joejaxx, Neo Base is $300 USD and Neo Advance is currently $399 (Both prices in USD)
17:41.59wurp2teprrr: no kidding
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17:42.19wurp2teprrr: The weird thing is that it doesn't core dump when you issue the same command from the command line.
17:42.29joejaxxkdean06: ok thanks :)
17:42.32teprrrwurp2, heh. well, I don't know which mkfs.jffs2 it does run actually..
17:43.09wurp2joejaxx: I shouldn't say consumer version (and neither should you...) since gta01 is for developers only
17:43.12teprrrwurp2, but the one inside the builddir is: build/tmp/rootfs/usr/bin/mkfs.jffs2: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
17:43.22wurp2ah
17:43.31teprrr/usr/sbin/mkfs.jffs2: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped that's the other one
17:43.31*** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net)
17:43.34wurp2So the one you run from cmd line is not the same as the one the makefile is running
17:43.44CMScaredyCat: Hey!
17:43.56wurp2Your machine is 64 bit?
17:43.57teprrrdifferent arch, so I can't run it myself even
17:44.02teprrryup, 64b system
17:44.13wurp2I think I heard that mokomakefile has issues with 64 bit...
17:44.43CMjosch: Sweden of course! ;)
17:44.49wurp2Oh, but the makefile definitely shouldn't be running the one that it built
17:44.54joejaxxwurp2: yes but i thought a consumer usable version was slated for the end of december/early january that is the only reason i used that term :)
17:45.02wurp2since that's for the neo
17:45.04CMwurp2: No, it has been working fine on 64bit for me
17:45.24wurp2joejaxx: Then it's not the GTA01, it has to be the 02/FreeRunner
17:45.34wurp2joejaxx: And I don't think we know the pricing on that yet.
17:45.41wurp2CM: OK, thanks, that's good info.
17:46.09wurp2joejaxx: And now the consumer hardware is due in "the spring" (see topic of channel) and I dunno any estimate on consumer ready software.
17:46.17phed__how is the openmoko vs Qtopia stuff working out?
17:46.26joejaxxwurp2: yeap :)
17:46.29joejaxxwurp2: thanks
17:46.29phed__it doesn't seem qtopia was made with touchscreen in mind : \
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17:46.55teprrrwurp2, well, the one my system has has no support for lzo at all :P
17:47.01CMphed__: I think they cooperate some, and ljp in here is working on qtopia :)
17:47.06wurp2phed__: My big hangup with qtopia was the lack of docs on how to deal w/ gps, etc from command line, and the total lack of a command line :-)
17:47.15phed__aha.
17:47.32*** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz)
17:47.43phed__well, I certainly recognize that QT4 is superior to GTK. Especially when accellerated. (on desktop that is)
17:47.58wurp2teprrr: I saw a post on the web saying the lzo message is by design, which really made little sense to me.
17:48.16phed__preliminary tests by a friend on how each of the TKs handled massive amount of primitives was strongly in favour of QT4
17:48.16CMSeveral in here are dualbooting openmoko and qtopia
17:48.24phed__oh nice
17:48.29teprrrwurp2, yup, saw something while googling, but it didn't made much sense to me either
17:48.34wurp2phed__: qtopia felt much more polished, and the support that was there worked better, but no gps, no command line, and no video player were show stoppers for me
17:48.35phed__I'm thinking of making a neo my next phone so
17:48.47teprrrand no mp3 player
17:48.54teprrrbtw, any ideas if it can play even ogg or something?
17:49.01CMphed__: Yeah, just hope the gta02 will be available soon
17:49.10CMteprrr: It plays oggs
17:49.10wurp2teprrr: I could play mp3s on qtopia
17:49.13wurp2with the build I got
17:49.42teprrrwurp2, hmm, with the build I tried it didn't
17:49.50balrog-kunit can play anything your pc can play
17:49.51wurp2teprrr: I don't understand why it's trying to run mkfs.jffs2 on your host machine anyway...
17:50.01phed__CM: Yeah, I'm anxiously waiting for an update on that :)
17:50.10wurp2teprrr: I used one of the custom builds (I think it was from 12/19)
17:50.31wurp2afk 4 a bit...
17:50.34teprrrwurp2, I don't know if it's running that one. but why wouldn't it run mkfs.jffs2? isn't the image jffs2 formated?
17:50.44teprrrI mean, the image I should send to the device
17:51.33wurp2teprrr: Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but I thought mkfs was used to put the file system on a partition.  Is it also used to create a file that is properly formatted to be slapped on a partition?
17:51.47wurp2I guess it would be...
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17:52.04wurp2I haven't done cross platform development (yet)
17:52.12teprrrwurp2, yup, mkfs can be used for a file too
17:52.18teprrror at least I've done so :P
17:52.32balrog-kunwurp2: mkfs is not used to put the filesystem on a partition
17:52.33wurp2teprrr: But in any case, that ARM formatted mkfs binary is not the one it should be running :-)
17:52.39balrog-kunit just makes a filesystem
17:52.45wurp2Ah, so my ignorance is complete :-)
17:52.47balrog-kunit doesn't care where it's making it
17:53.10wurp2balrog-kun: Thanks
17:53.39teprrrwurp2, yup, and I doubt it's running that one.. but I doubt it is running my system one neither..
17:53.41balrog-kunnp
17:53.59teprrrahh, /home/tpr/openmoko/build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/bin/mkfs.jffs2 :o
17:54.24teprrryup, it's that one it's running
17:55.16teprrrhttp://pastebin.com/d5b6794c8 the backtrace :p
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17:55.35teprrrbuggy libc6?!
17:55.39*** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl)
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17:56.27wurp2That makes sense
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17:57.06wurp2teprrr: I mean, not the buggy libc6, which mkfs it was running makes sense
17:59.50teprrryup, it sure does :)
17:59.58teprrrbut I have no idea why it's crashing :I
18:02.31phed__btw, I kinda remember there being work on a new Opengl ES interface from some entity
18:02.46phed__ie. no more Mesa
18:02.48*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
18:02.54phed__+ it would serve as a ground for a new Opengl 3.0 interface
18:03.02phed__but I cannot for the love of god find it again :(
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18:44.21Garethwindu: 14
18:44.24Garether
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18:50.23Keroany tools that can munch some /tmp/nmeaNP data and draw it on some map?
18:51.38SpeedEvilKero: wiki.openstreetmap.org
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18:51.51SpeedEvilKero: gpsbabel to go from NMEA logs to GPX
18:52.01SpeedEvilload into JOSM - the mapping applet.
18:52.02wurp2http://www.mauve.plus.com/simple.awk will translate NMEA logs to lat/lon
18:52.09SpeedEvilOr that.
18:52.28SpeedEviland then gnuplot
18:52.51wurp2and then you can get pretty close to plotting X/Y by scaling the latitude by the cos of the longitude
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18:53.23SpeedEvilyeah
18:53.30wurp2Over normal scales, the longitude won't really vary from the bottom to the top of the map
18:54.13SpeedEvilOr you can plot on gnuplot on a spherical plot.
18:54.20SpeedEvilwhich is a bit pointless usually
18:54.51Kerohehe; thx for the pointers
18:54.55wurp2I need to play more with gnuplot
18:54.56SpeedEvilI just use plot "data" using (0.75*$1):2 or something
18:55.21SpeedEvilto plot 0.75*the first column against the second
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19:16.08Garethhas anyone seen/heard from Raster lately?
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19:21.16stefan_schmidtGareth: He is in the internet-less australia atm
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19:22.03stefan_schmidtGareth: Somehow it is really difficult for the ISPs there to give him internet access. For at least 1,5 month now. Impressive.
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19:23.02inwooanyone have issues with openmoko-terminal2 not downloading
19:26.49teprrrdownloaded just fine earlier
19:27.11inwooodd, is there a way to update the bitbake files to see if the urls are correct?
19:30.39inwooactually, svn says the target machine actively refused me...
19:31.04teprrrno idea about that, sorry
19:31.43inwoothanks ... i think i figured it out though
19:33.29joschCM, great! and what makes sweden better than norway?
19:33.50CMHehe.. So many things.. ;)
19:33.59CMThe food being nr 1 I think..
19:34.09CMThe norwegians just eat sandwiches all the time
19:34.11CM;)
19:34.31CMflexd: Isn't that right?
19:34.48teprrrswedes have a stupid language ;I
19:34.52CMjosch: Also, we're in EU so things are a lot cheaper and it's easier to get around
19:34.53Garethstefan_schmidt: Okay. thanks.  
19:35.06CMteprrr: Pffft... (Bork bork bork..)
19:35.15teprrr/me haven't stopped hating his mandatory swedish courses
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19:35.48CMteprrr: I can imagine that :-/
19:37.25teprrrstill one more to go and then I'm free of that shit :P
19:38.14flexdCM: hmm? what? huh?
19:38.18flexdI eat food.
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19:39.20joschwell then expect me in sweden in a year or so :-D
19:39.29flexdbut
19:39.32flexdNorway > Sweden
19:39.39flexdand we are not EU
19:39.42flexdwhich makes us great
19:39.52flexdyet we follow eu rules better than any country IN EU
19:39.56flexdkinda funny huh?
19:41.50teprrrhere in finland we even overimplement the directives!
19:42.27thomasghere in timbuktu we kick asses
19:43.36teprrrhmm, how can I generate contents of staging directory again?
19:44.26teprrrmake build-package-mtd-utils didn't help, after I removed mkfs.jffs2..
19:46.32haakeyarhaakeyar.agreeTo(flexd.latestStatements);
19:46.51flexdgod that's awfully C#/java :(
19:47.15haakeyar:P
19:48.05flexdhaakeyar->agreeTo(flexd,&latestStatements);
19:48.16flexdsee, that wont even compile
19:48.20flexdand yet it's shinier.
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19:50.14CMflexd: That's norwegian thinking.. ;)
19:50.44haakeyarWhich language is that? The only language I know that uses -> for for object members is PHP.
19:50.54haakeyarMaybe I should learn some more languages.
19:50.57flexdthat's why all norwegian girls compare to my shiny code, and the swedish ones are like..
19:51.00flexdlisp
19:51.01CMc maybe :)
19:51.05flexdhaakeyar: c++!
19:51.16flexdbut brb
19:51.26flexdirssi has made a booboo and broken my hilight window
19:51.30flexdso i need to restart
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19:52.10SpeedEvilWe await the GPS track. :)
19:52.47teprrrany ideas what I could do after I have deleted build/tmp/staging/?
19:53.23haakeyarFlexd: Hm... I guess I never got to OO when I read a chapter or two in a C++ book. But really? I though they used .
19:53.25teprrrie. how to force MokoMakefile to build it again
19:53.34flexdhaakeyar: both actually
19:53.59flexdI'm quite new myself, so i have no idea what's the diffrence between -> and ., but both are used
19:54.04haakeyarAh, that explains it. :)
19:54.33I-MOD-> is used on a pointer
19:54.46I-MOD. is used on something that has no references iirc
19:55.29teprrror do I really have to recompile everything? remove everything except MokoMakefile and start all from beginning? I have already compiled most of the stuff which is going to the device...
19:56.11teprrrflexd, Plah *plah = new Plah(); plah->something(); Bleh bleh; bleh.something();
19:56.50flexdteprrr: aha, well that' expains it :)
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19:58.44teprrror at least that's how it works in c++ :)
19:59.01teprrrhaakeyar, c also uses -> for struct "members2
19:59.05teprrrs/2/"/
19:59.14teprrrtest test test
19:59.25teprrrs/^test/test2/
19:59.30teprrrs/test/test2/
19:59.36teprrrduh, it doesn't respect regexps? ;I
20:00.00cjb_iedid you mean s/test/test2/g
20:00.52teprrrnah, just wanted to test that one
20:04.02flexdmeh i wish i new regexp stuff
20:04.14flexdit's all a big blob of confusion for me :p
20:05.55teprrrregexps are quite nice sometimes, though I always need to use a cheatsheet to generate something more than some basic ones
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20:08.27erkoHi all, anyone have any luck getting GPRS working?  I'm trying with T-mobile (U.S.).
20:08.33flexdteprrr: yeah me too, but mine never work anyway :s
20:08.52flexdbtw, do anyone of you know openmoko/the neo works in australia?
20:09.06flexdI'm planning on moving in about a year, would suck to get there and be phoneless :(
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20:13.39teprrrahm, removal of build/tmp/stamps/x86_64 did the trick :)
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20:27.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1165 has been created by audriusa(AT)bluewin.ch
20:27.02cdbot2* * The console-only applications fail to start in terminal from menu
20:27.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1165
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20:29.57joschhow many screws do I have to remove to open my neo?
20:30.05joschI'm in the middle of unbricking it
20:30.13mmontourjosch: 2 screws
20:30.19joschI also couldn't find a wiki page about it
20:30.35joschmmontour, ah k thx - removed those two but it still feels hard to open
20:30.51SpeedEvilIt is.
20:30.55SpeedEvilHow I did it.
20:31.05joschcould it be that those two screws are of different size? I used two different screwdrivers to get them out
20:31.13mmontourAfter removing the screws you use the guitar pick. There's a "disassembling" page somewhere on the wiki
20:31.16SpeedEvilpress thumbnail into aux button
20:31.24SpeedEviland run it down the edge of the case
20:31.25Vegarhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973
20:31.31joschVegar, ah thx
20:31.32SpeedEvilI never used the pick.
20:32.13mmontourThe pick worked well for me.
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20:32.27ahventhe Finger works well enough :)
20:33.48mmontourOnce you get it open, refer to the "Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2" wiki page
20:36.41joschwow I got it open now
20:37.08joschrly hard to do it - I hope I never have to do it again
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20:42.04crusohi! is anything known about the battery lifetime of the GTA01 ?
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20:46.49mwesterYes.  It's very poor right now.
20:51.02kdean06mwester, What are you getting right now, on average?
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20:55.14balrog-kuni think it's about 6 hours with all components powered up constantly, with the stock battery
20:55.17balrog-kunwhich is not bad
20:55.23joschError:   jtag.c:1370 jtag_init(): No valid jtag interface found (ft2232)
20:55.23joschError:   jtag.c:1371 jtag_init(): compiled-in jtag interfaces:
20:55.23joschError:   jtag.c:1374 jtag_init(): 0: amt_jtagaccel
20:55.26joschany suggestions?
20:56.03mwesterkdean06:  It varies - one battery is about 4 hours, the other about what balrog-kun is seeing (6 with no activity)
20:56.12joschI used the binary provided here: http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/dpkg/
20:56.15inwoois there a way to make sure that openmoko compiles using all my cpus? i've edited the parallel_make and the bb_number_threads but it still is single threaded building.
20:56.20*** join/#openmoko flexd (n=kek@37.80-203-110.nextgentel.com)
20:57.24joschand I used this config: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openocd#openocd.cfg
20:57.41kdean06And is that due to crappy power management software side, or a hardware "issue"?
20:58.00balrog-kunkdean06: mostly software
20:58.12kdean06Cool. :)
20:58.31mwesterYeah, but it's *tricky* software ;)
20:58.36kdean06I'm so ready to have my Neo.
20:58.48joschI have /dev/ttyUSB0+1 but lsusb doesn't show the debug board
20:59.03balrog-kunbut you know, if the software side of something is not working that means that the hardware hasn't been tested and thus may have bugs too
20:59.21balrog-kunthe hardware can only be tested if there's software to test it
20:59.30joschideas?
21:00.07kdean06True, but I've got more faith in programmers. ;)
21:02.09josch:-(
21:02.22joschnobody cares for poor josch :-/
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21:03.25balrog-kunyea, same happened with the modem 850 MHz range, the Glamo IRQ pin which missed a pullup and more times
21:07.22crusoand what about the stand by time? (battery) ?
21:09.29balrog-kunsee above - no software available to put the device into real standby, so not known
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21:10.03mmontourjosch: ttyUSB0 is the JTAG interface, ttyUSB1 is the serial port
21:10.36joschI have both but why is openocd failing?
21:10.44joschI need it, right?
21:10.46mmontourPlease try the instructions on the "Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2" and its "/Unbricking" sub-page first - those are more recent than some of the others
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21:11.25mmontourYes, you need openocd. It's built by MokoMakefile (the openmoko-devel-tools target) and that's the best way to get an up-to-date version
21:12.20joschdoes anybody have an x86-64 version at hand? my build machine is off for now
21:12.36joschI used LaF0rge's deb package as said earlier
21:15.54drathttyUSB0 isn't really the JTAG interface - the OpenOCD communicates directly with the hardware via libusb (through libftdi or FTD2XX)
21:16.51mmontourttyUSB0 is involved somehow - it shows up when the board is plugged in, and disappears the first time that openocd is run
21:18.18mmontourjosch: if you do "lsusb -v" as root, do you see the "Debug Board for Neo1973" description string for device ID 1457:5118?
21:18.19drathheh, yeah, the ft2232 has two channels - initially both are used by the ftdi_sio module as UARTs, and if you don't have any other USB UARTs they end up as ttyUSB[01]
21:18.52drathbut having ttyUSB0 doesn't necessarily mean that the FT2232 is working - could be any other USB serial interface
21:18.58joschmmontour, yes it's there
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21:19.21drathjosch: guess you're lacking the appropriate permissions on the procusbfs entries
21:19.27drathjosch: could you try running the OpenOCD as root?
21:19.33joschabraxa_ just gave me this blog entry be CM and he seems to have had the same error message by openocd: http://informationhunger.blogspot.com/2007/12/openmoko-debug-board.html
21:19.40mmontourAnd you have that same string as "ft2232_device_desc" in openocd.cfg?
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21:19.53joschno running as root results in the same
21:20.32joschmmontour, I copied openocd.cfg from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openocd#openocd.cfg
21:20.58drathjosch: it's failing with the "No valid jtag interface found" message you pasted above?
21:21.02joschdrath, it's no other interface - when I unplug the debug board it's gone
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21:21.36joschdrath, right - the same error message as in CM's blog post
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21:23.08mmontourDid you also add the "ft2232_device_desc" line that's mentioned just below that example config?
21:23.17drathjosch: hmm, what's written in the blog doesn't make much sense for me, but it's of course possible that there's a bug left that causes this misleading error
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21:23.40joschI have ft2232_device_desc "Debug Board for Neo1973"
21:24.32mmontourOK, that should be right. It may be an issue with your openocd binary (I don't have an x86-64 system so I can't help there)
21:35.40teprrrwurp2, finally got it compiled. commented out that free() call completely from the code
21:36.38joschhum I'll just wait for CM coming back then :-)
21:37.25joschdrath, mmontour thanks for your help so far - I really didn't expect to get my neo debricked so easily ^^
21:38.20drathjosch: would be great if you could keep me posted on this - if there's a bug i'd like to get it fixed, there've been several reports of this behaviour, but the code in that area is quite clean, and doesn't explain the behaviour you're seeing
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21:41.58joschdrath, no problem - if you'd like me to try somethink - just say so
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21:44.32drathjosch: do you have the source tree available, with the config.log? (/me has no idea how openmoko/mokomakefile builds the OpenOCD)
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21:53.30mmontourjosch: if you want, you can try my openocd from http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/openocd
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21:56.59joschdrath, I build openmoko with mokomakefile but I cannot access the machine right now - will ping you if I looked it up
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21:59.24joschmmontour, with your binary I get this error:
21:59.25joschError:   ft2232.c:1475 ft2232_init_libftdi(): unable to open ftdi device: unable to fetch product description
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22:01.24mmontourRunning as root?
22:01.37*** join/#openmoko rbs-tito (n=tito@host81-132-25-120.range81-132.btcentralplus.com)
22:01.58joschIT WORKS!!
22:02.07joschWOHOOOOO!
22:02.12joschrunning as root did the job
22:03.50drathjosch: did you try "
22:03.56drathhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board#udev_rule
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22:05.30joschdrath, no the other binary worked flawless
22:05.42joschI just had to specify the config file via -f
22:06.35Ghiottonehello
22:06.37Ghiottonemickeyl, ping
22:06.40drathjosch: yeah, but as root - using the udev rule should allow you to run as a normal user
22:07.05joschah okay
22:07.19joschwell anyway it was because of wrong openocd version
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22:07.40joschwhich uboot version should I pick? is there a wiki page about it?
22:08.37balrog-kunyes, there has been a site listing known-to-work u-boot versions
22:08.55balrog-kuni heard the very latest versions work well too
22:09.03balrog-kunsome bugfixing has been done
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22:09.30mmontourYou can use one of my builds from http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/u-boot/
22:09.42joschmmontour, great thanks!
22:10.14joschside question: is there any uboot that can boot from sdhc now or do I still have to boot a kernel from internel flash?
22:10.38mmontourThat one will boot from SD (not sure about SDHC specifically as I only have a 2G card)
22:11.05joschwait - lowlevel foo is only about 1K ???
22:11.53mmontourYes, it's less than 1K (just enough to initialize the device to the point where you can upload u-boot to RAM)
22:16.16MuffYwith lot's of important Dutch buildings replicated in a 1:10 scale or sowething
22:16.29MuffYoooops
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22:19.00joschwhat's a nice terminal emulator I can use for the serial and usb console?
22:19.43Vegarscreen?
22:19.55mmontour'screen' is probably the easiest. I also use minicom.
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22:24.48joschwith what arguments do I run screen when connecting to /dev/ttyUSB1 ? I found nothing when quickly searching the man page
22:26.47balrog-kuni think the baud rate and the path only
22:27.09balrog-kunscreen 9600 /dev/ttyUSB1 or /dev/ttyUSB1 9600
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22:27.44teprrrhmm, any ideas what could case the X server not to start?
22:27.51teprrrs/case/cause/
22:28.06teprrrI got the login on vt1 though
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22:31.57mmontourteprrr: installing 'bash' as /bin/sh will do that (as I found out yesterday, though I'm not sure why it did that)
22:32.31mmontourjosch: screen /dev/ttyUSB1 115200 (it might also work at 9600 baud - I never tried that)
22:32.50teprrrmmontour, hmm, so currently it's that way in the vcs also?
22:33.44mmontourteprrr: no, I was just messing around with my own installation
22:34.20joschmmontour, it worked at 9600 but with funny output ^^
22:35.18teprrrmmontour, ah. I just did make openmoko-devel-image and flashed the images to the device.
22:35.27teprrrjust wondering if I'm missing something
22:35.51teprrrbuild/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 is the correct rootfs, right?
22:36.13teprrrwhich links to OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080107-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
22:36.37mmontourYes, that's correct. Can you log in with ssh? If so, try "/etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart" and see if it gives you any useful error messages
22:37.28mmontourAlso, what version of u-boot are you using? With really old ones you need to do a "nand erase rootfs" from the u-boot console before flashing the image.
22:37.54joschhum... screen sais it cannot find a PTY when I try to connect to /dev/ttyUSB1 after uploading uboot into neo ram
22:38.02teprrrI tried the nand erase rootfs trick already, didn't work
22:40.46teprrrlooks I can't ssh or even ping the device
22:40.53joschokay rebooted neo now it seems to work again
22:41.28rbs-titoSo is the Neo not goiing to get wifi?
22:41.38Vegarrbs-tito: read the topic
22:41.44teprrrrbs-tito, gta02 will have it, no?
22:41.47Stephmw.. yeah, what Vegar said
22:41.52Stephmwteprrr: ^^
22:42.09teprrrhmm, looks like /lib/modules/2.6.22.5-moko1/modules.dep is missing..
22:42.14Vegarso what's the average boot time of a neo?
22:43.04teprrrand I'm getting PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs1 and same for vcsa1..
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22:43.33teprrrmount point /dev/shm doesn't exists.. hwclock: could not access rtc: no such file or directory
22:43.39teprrrperhaps some of those may cause it?
22:43.49teprrrI can see that usb0 interface is up in the device
22:43.57joschSkipping bad block at  0x03ff0000                                            
22:43.57joschSkipping bad block at  0x03ff4000                                            
22:43.57joschSkipping bad block at  0x03ff8000                                            
22:43.57joschSkipping bad block at  0x03ffc000   <= are those bad?
22:44.01*** part/#openmoko Resolo (n=Resolo@ip24-252-201-111.mc.at.cox.net)
22:44.15mmontourteprrr: -moko1 sounds like a really old kernel. Mine is 2.6.22.5-moko11
22:44.20mmontourjosh: those are normal
22:44.53rbs-titoWhat languages will be most useful for hacking on a neo?
22:44.59rbs-titoI might buy one
22:45.31moorbs-tito, C I guess
22:45.53mooall hardware sensitive code is C. UI is mainly gtk-c.
22:45.56ljpor c++ is you use qtopia
22:46.32moorbs-tito: leap backward to C is not that difficult ;)
22:46.43teprrrmmontour, ahh. sorry, I missed one '1'. it's -moko11
22:46.44rbs-titomoo: Not really backward, they both have their uses
22:47.54moorbs-tito: Vala is the happy new competitor promising to be the silver bullet of GTK development
22:48.07joschmmontour, okay I think I got everything set up correctly and I'm ready to use dfu-util - where can I get a slash.gz?
22:48.57rbs-titomoo: The GNOME thing?
22:49.33mooit's higher level thingy which compiles to C (and thus you can create nice native binaries)
22:49.50mooand has native support for GTK base objects
22:50.42mmontourjosch: good question. It can be built with tools in the openmoko source tree, but I'm not sure where to find a downloadable version
22:51.19joschokay but I guess if I came this far - there is nothing mush to do
22:51.34joschis it too early to shout SUCCESS!! ?
22:51.49mwesterMurphy might hear you.
22:51.59mmontourThe splashscreen isn't critical for booting. Really all that matters is to have u-boot and the environment partition working, and you can fix the rest without the debug board.
22:52.33joschmmontour, so if I'm at the step where dfu-util is used I can savely disconnect everything and boot normally?
22:52.51joschinto uboot
22:53.07joschand then do dfu-util normally
22:54.35mmontourYes, you should be able to do everything else with just dfu-util and the u-boot USB console
22:54.53teprrrmmontour, oh, and I can't power off it by pressing the power button
22:55.09teprrrit just keeps yelling onkey_seconds message to the console
22:55.43mmontourteprrr: that's a known bug. You'll have to unplug the USB then remove the battery.
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22:58.31teprrrok, so that doesn't cause the bootup problem.. hmm
22:59.36teprrroh, I'm getting io error on dev mmcb1k0 after plugging my sd card in.. but that shouldn't matter I think
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23:05.21joschHELL IT BOOTS!!!!!!!! NEO DEBRICKED SUCCESSFULL!! WIN!
23:05.36zashyay 4 u
23:06.49SpeedEvil:)
23:08.20zashwill the gta02 ( aka freerunner ) be sold in an all black version, or is that the OMG-SHINY-version?
23:08.45SpeedEvilIt's only going to be available in hot-pink.
23:08.46joschyou guys should know this feeling to have a neo debricked - it feels great! going to open some sparkling wine now :-D
23:09.05Knirchhotpink! <3
23:10.25joschah... openmoko... there it is again! I missed this gtk slowness!
23:11.01zashthe gtk-theme should be optimizded.. :/
23:13.28joschzash, the problem is: gtk is slow with theming - just remove gtkrc and look at the speed you gain
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23:37.13teprrrOpenMoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20071118-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 seems to boot fine :o
23:41.45*** part/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@88-149-251-27.dynamic.ngi.it)
23:41.52teprrryup, it did start fine
23:42.37teprrrand even responds to ping, weehaa :)
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23:46.04duffydhi, I'm getting 404 errors when doing an ipkg update && ipkg upgrade
23:46.04duffydis this a known issue?
23:47.56*** join/#openmoko hrw|gone_ (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl)
23:49.06duffydif I try to access the urls directly they are in fact not found
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23:52.10duffydi'm guessing some of the feeds have been changed recently :(

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