| 00:02.36 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 00:04.30 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-183-231.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:06.56 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:07.23 | balrog-kun | still no fix though, already running for some 20 minutes |
| 00:07.45 | SpeedEvil | it won't lock weak ones |
| 00:09.03 | balrog-kun | it seems it sees the satellites equally well whether it's inside or put outside the window |
| 00:10.53 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 00:17.52 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
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| 00:45.19 | thseiler | has anyone a running setup with xoo and xephyr ? |
| 00:46.51 | josch | thseiler, I did a few month ago - everything worked exactly as explained in the wiki |
| 00:47.33 | thseiler | hm, there is a script mentioned, om-launch, but the link is wrong, i get a 404 |
| 00:48.08 | thseiler | i have tried to start the processes manually, but the font sizes are not correct, probably wrong dpi settings or something. |
| 00:49.21 | thseiler | Do you remeber the options you used for Xephyr back then ? |
| 00:49.35 | josch | yeah I changed the dpi setting |
| 00:49.57 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 00:50.43 | thseiler | I just tried with -dpi 285 but now the fonts are too big... |
| 00:51.27 | SpeedEvil | move away from the screen |
| 00:51.33 | thseiler | :-) |
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| 01:23.06 | *** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
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| 01:27.28 | PP|Spydon | there were a long time since the last community update is there a holiday or something? :P |
| 01:27.42 | SpeedEvil | Alien abduction. |
| 01:28.09 | PP|Spydon | Ah I see... |
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| 01:32.12 | PP|Spydon | gn again :P |
| 01:32.19 | PP|Spydon | wrong channel :P |
| 01:42.37 | mwester | Aliens, huh? That explains a lot, really. |
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| 02:42.12 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3768 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (eabi-toolchain.patch series): (log message trimmed) |
| 02:42.12 | CIA-15 | openmoko: eabi-toolchain.patch: When using the new OpenMoko toolchain for EABI, u-boot |
| 02:42.12 | CIA-15 | openmoko: (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain) fails to build due to a number of |
| 02:42.12 | CIA-15 | openmoko: small compatibility issues. This patch fixes them in a way that is |
| 02:42.12 | CIA-15 | openmoko: backwards-compatible with our ancient OABI toolchain. |
| 02:42.17 | CIA-15 | openmoko: There also seems to be a "competing" patch for OE: |
| 02:42.19 | CIA-15 | openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=180 |
| 03:03.34 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3769 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/scripts/ (. README build update): |
| 03:03.34 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Example scripts for the "manual" u-boot build process (i.e., without using |
| 03:03.34 | CIA-15 | openmoko: OpenEmbedded or anything similar.) |
| 03:03.34 | CIA-15 | openmoko: NOTE: this is still unfinished and largely untested work. |
| 03:03.34 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - scripts/README: description of what this is and of toolchain requirements |
| 03:03.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - scripts/build: build u-boot from scratch |
| 03:03.38 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - scripts/update: update one or both (upstream git and OM SVN) repositories |
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| 03:18.24 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3770 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/p/: - kernel/p: removed empty directory getting in the way of file name completion |
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| 03:35.11 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3771 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/scripts/build: |
| 03:35.11 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - scripts/build: fixed incorrect negation in [ ! -z ... ] || ... |
| 03:35.11 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - scripts/build: typo, "which" not "with" |
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| 04:11.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3772 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/scripts/ (. README build update): (log message trimmed) |
| 04:11.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Example scripts for the "manual" kernel build process (i.e., without using |
| 04:11.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: OpenEmbedded or anything similar.) |
| 04:11.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: NOTE: this is still unfinished and largely untested work. |
| 04:11.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - scripts/README: description of what this is |
| 04:11.40 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - scripts/build: build the kernel from scratch |
| 04:11.42 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - scripts/update: update the OM SVN repository |
| 04:11.53 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3773 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/scripts/update: - scripts/update: we don't need to symlink "patches" again |
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| 04:12.45 | Linux_Galore | <PROTECTED> |
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| 05:02.29 | dbmood1 | maybe spring ? |
| 05:02.34 | dbmood1 | ...hits head |
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| 05:14.55 | mwester | ;) and nobody defined which hemisphere's "spring". |
| 05:15.13 | SpeedEvil | west |
| 05:15.18 | mbuf | mwester, gives me more time to save money :) |
| 05:15.23 | SpeedEvil | (precession) |
| 05:21.54 | dbmoodb | lol |
| 05:22.02 | dbmoodb | well i have the money |
| 05:26.11 | dbmoodb | :) |
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| 05:43.08 | Tronic | s/Spring/Q2/ |
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| 07:26.53 | dbmoodb | oh just a q with the v2 - will it be available in how many colours ? |
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| 07:35.25 | balrog-kun | dbmoodb: afaik in only two |
| 07:36.17 | balrog-kun | i mean i haven't heard anything about the colours since v1, so i assume there was no change |
| 07:36.46 | dbmoodb | sure |
| 07:37.21 | dbmoodb | just can only see the freerunner up several sites in a black variety + the freerunner name on it - it looks worse than the v1 |
| 07:37.44 | dbmoodb | in my opinion - just the freerunner text - fic is a different company now but... |
| 07:38.05 | dbmoodb | the name dies hard - (neo1973) |
| 07:39.21 | balrog-kun | so you have a link to a picture with the freerunner text? |
| 07:39.38 | balrog-kun | i think most phones don't have their name printed on the front at all |
| 07:39.46 | Mononoke | I would rename it to OMG |
| 07:41.44 | dbmoodb | sure |
| 07:41.53 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 07:41.56 | dbmoodb | OPEN MOKO GROUP right ? |
| 07:42.20 | dbmoodb | i hope the freerunner text / image is just for the ces show or for the new atm |
| 07:42.30 | dbmoodb | and it will retain the neo1973 name... |
| 07:43.03 | dbmoodb | - only mention of the name on openmoko - is in this irc topic as i can see ... |
| 07:44.23 | dbmoodb | http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/03/openmoko-to-unveil-consumer-minded-neo-freerunner/ there is the link |
| 07:44.29 | dbmoodb | wait... that's not it |
| 07:45.34 | dbmoodb | http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9839867-39.html there |
| 07:49.15 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2584.bb.online.no) |
| 07:52.20 | Mononoke | did android realy steal openmoko's wings? cause I didn't notice anything |
| 07:53.14 | Linux_Galore | Mononoke: you would be able to infer the same about openmoko and the qtopia green phone |
| 07:54.17 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@adsl-dyn53.91-127-139.t-com.sk) |
| 07:54.52 | Linux_Galore | Mononoke: Im not sure it matters though, if android works out to be very good then they can run that |
| 07:55.16 | Linux_Galore | on the OM hardware |
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| 08:02.20 | dbmoodb | the more the better no ? |
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| 08:25.02 | balrog-kun | Mononoke: it's hard to measure, but imho marketing-wise yes, a bit |
| 08:27.22 | balrog-kun | hmm, it's strange, gllin got no fix yesterday when i left it running and went to sleep |
| 08:27.33 | balrog-kun | it ran for four hours according to the nmea logs |
| 08:27.47 | balrog-kun | and it was seeing eleven satellites just fine |
| 08:35.25 | *** join/#openmoko [[thufir]] (n=[[thufir@S01060016ec23af88.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 08:40.39 | balrog-kun | oh no, it ran for two hours because the phone battery died after that time, but since gllin was running on a different system it still kept running and emitting NMEA |
| 08:41.54 | balrog-kun | so from one point the messages start repeating and only the timestamp changes |
| 08:49.13 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 09:20.52 | josch | mickey|zzZZzz, ping :-) |
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| 10:17.37 | harck | hi |
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| 10:50.59 | torpor | yo |
| 10:51.21 | kinneh | hi |
| 10:51.26 | torpor | hi |
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| 11:31.11 | freepenguin | Have fun with Free Penguin: http://www.freepenguin.it/index-en.html =) |
| 11:31.23 | torpor | whats up with this damn terminal issue in the latest release, anyone know? |
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| 11:34.47 | kinneh | torpor: "damn terminal issue" ? |
| 11:35.21 | torpor | i can't do a 'make openmoko-devel-image' no more without running into this issue .. NOTE: fetch http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/openmoko-terminal2_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.OM-2007.2.applications_3542_.tar.gz |
| 11:35.25 | torpor | 404 |
| 11:35.31 | torpor | ERROR: No providers of build target u-boot-openmoko (for []) |
| 11:35.43 | torpor | its borked. |
| 11:35.58 | zilux | it is mentioned regularly |
| 11:36.00 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:36.08 | torpor | whats the fix? |
| 11:36.26 | zilux | check the irc log please from yesterday |
| 11:36.35 | torpor | who fixed it? |
| 11:37.06 | zilux | this is a problem due to repository mis synchronisation |
| 11:37.16 | zilux | will be ok after a while |
| 11:37.49 | torpor | so there's no fix right now? |
| 11:37.51 | torpor | i just wait? |
| 11:38.33 | zilux | people who face the issue succeeded to worjkaround it |
| 11:38.38 | zilux | faced |
| 11:38.51 | torpor | do you know what the workaround is .. ? |
| 11:39.30 | zilux | I can retreive it in the irc log. atm I use an old repository image |
| 11:39.51 | torpor | if you could just tell me what to grep for that has the discussion from yesterday i'll look it up .. |
| 11:40.52 | zilux | ok :-) |
| 11:41.21 | zilux | check the name of the faulty packages |
| 11:45.34 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 11:45.42 | torpor | ok |
| 11:45.47 | torpor | fixed it thanks zilux .. |
| 11:46.42 | zilux | good |
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| 13:25.15 | yoyo | hello |
| 13:25.21 | ajbrun | yo |
| 13:26.19 | _wedge_ | hi, does someone know, which font is used in the openmoko logo? |
| 13:26.46 | SpeedEvil | openmoko |
| 13:26.50 | SpeedEvil | that one |
| 13:26.56 | _wedge_ | own font? |
| 13:27.10 | SpeedEvil | Speaking non-sillily, I don't know |
| 13:27.51 | _wedge_ | damn, i would like to use it at an presentation about openmoko |
| 13:28.18 | SpeedEvil | I think it's custom, but am not sure. |
| 13:29.28 | yoyo | dose someone successfully research market for alternative holder for moko? |
| 13:30.34 | yoyo | I'w got basic an it is so stupid. molo lay on desk an lay. |
| 13:31.02 | CoreDump | there is a car-holder which works as a "desk-holder" just as well |
| 13:31.14 | *** join/#openmoko alberto (n=alberto@host-84-221-253-240.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 13:31.58 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 13:32.11 | yoyo | CoreDump: but holder is for what device? fore sure not for openmoko :P |
| 13:32.36 | CoreDump | openmoko is a distribution, not a device. The holder is for Neo1973 and FreeRunner |
| 13:33.09 | CoreDump | dunno if you can buy it yet tho =) But I know there is one |
| 13:33.22 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 13:34.12 | CoreDump | it's not on the OM shop I'm afraid |
| 13:34.46 | SpeedEvil | The device is whatever you can convince it to run on. |
| 13:34.57 | SpeedEvil | even a normal PC. |
| 13:35.14 | SpeedEvil | (though it's not very functional in that role) |
| 13:40.06 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:40.16 | Stephmw | CoreDump: size isn't everything |
| 13:40.30 | SpeedEvil | Vibration is important too. |
| 13:40.41 | ajbrun | and girth |
| 13:40.47 | ajbrun | what are we talking about again? |
| 13:40.52 | CoreDump | =D |
| 13:41.28 | CoreDump | it is running navit well enough now. All we noq need is a working text-to-speech app. |
| 13:41.57 | *** join/#openmoko ken__ (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 13:42.31 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@host132.natpool.mwn.de) |
| 13:43.01 | CoreDump | any volunteers to debug a kernel freeze caused by espeak? =) |
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| 14:02.26 | zilux | CoreDump: not checked it but I guess this is a PortAudio freeze |
| 14:02.41 | CoreDump | must be kernel, the whole device dies |
| 14:02.50 | CoreDump | only ejecting battery helps... |
| 14:03.17 | zilux | CoreDump: here using espeak + pulse, I used Navit with speech |
| 14:03.25 | zilux | pedestrian navigation, ok |
| 14:03.28 | CoreDump | there may be a bug in portaudio of course, but the kernel shouldn't crash _ever_ ;) |
| 14:05.07 | zilux | sorry to come back on this but |
| 14:05.29 | zilux | did you try sd + espeak (not espeak-generic) + alsa |
| 14:05.57 | CoreDump | yes |
| 14:06.04 | yoyo | I'w kill my distro :( after upgrade |
| 14:06.04 | zilux | and... |
| 14:06.09 | CoreDump | nada |
| 14:06.14 | CoreDump | no sound, no crash |
| 14:06.22 | zilux | ok :-) |
| 14:06.26 | CoreDump | I can't make spd-say emit anything |
| 14:06.35 | zilux | incompatibility between alsa and pulse |
| 14:06.36 | CoreDump | tried pulse, alsa, oss... |
| 14:06.51 | zilux | if you wait say 10 seconds |
| 14:07.06 | zilux | you might launch speech-dispatcher again |
| 14:07.20 | zilux | because pulseaudio has released the audi device |
| 14:07.35 | *** join/#openmoko mib_force (i=mib_forc@system-ready.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:08.03 | zilux | you can check the audio dev release using aplay for example |
| 14:08.29 | *** join/#openmoko Arno85 (n=Arno85@d54C662B2.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:09.49 | CoreDump | hmm my sd is missing sd_espeak |
| 14:10.09 | zilux | time to update :-) |
| 14:11.54 | CoreDump | well, it is disabled by default via configure... |
| 14:12.16 | zilux | so recipe update |
| 14:12.30 | zilux | insteda of using aplay: lsof /dev/snd/* |
| 14:13.20 | zilux | in my sd recipe (mokotts): |
| 14:13.21 | zilux | EXTRA_OECONF = "--prefix=/usr --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --sysconfdir=/etc pidpath=/var/run/speech-dispatcher/ --with-espeak=yes --with-flite=no --with-ibmtts=no --with-nas=no --with-alsa=yes --with-pulse=yes" |
| 14:13.21 | zilux | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:22.52 | zilux | is there a way to clear the ipk cache? |
| 14:24.15 | CoreDump | the feed lists? |
| 14:24.38 | zilux | when I try to install a package an old dependency come back |
| 14:25.24 | zilux | guess it comes from the ipk cache: |
| 14:25.25 | zilux | ERROR: Package espeak-zhy (parent espeak-zhy) is not available from any configured src |
| 14:25.36 | CoreDump | ipkg update ;) |
| 14:26.05 | zilux | I installed this temporary package by hand |
| 14:26.36 | zilux | ok will do the update |
| 14:28.05 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBE15.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:29.12 | zilux | ipkg update is partially done |
| 14:29.37 | zilux | it finished on: |
| 14:29.39 | zilux | ipkg_download: ERROR: Command failed with return value 1: `wget --passive-ftp -q -P /tmp/ipkg-WC3VBd http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/ipk/neo1973/Packages.gz' |
| 14:30.34 | zilux | and then ipkg install, asks again the old dependency :-) |
| 14:30.41 | zilux | my environment is perhaps broken |
| 14:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko orion_ (n=orion@124-171-196-204.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:31.54 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-173-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:31.56 | CoreDump | ok, recompiled with your EXTRA_OECONF |
| 14:32.06 | zilux | ok |
| 14:32.09 | CoreDump | aplay does not work, cat blah > /dev/dsp *does* |
| 14:32.36 | zilux | the alsa device is temorarily locked |
| 14:35.04 | CoreDump | heh, the default output was wrong |
| 14:35.08 | CoreDump | it works now =D |
| 14:35.14 | zilux | great! |
| 14:35.30 | zilux | fun can start :-) |
| 14:36.00 | zilux | the dorr is opened to talking apps |
| 14:36.10 | CoreDump | =D |
| 14:36.16 | CoreDump | zilux: thanks man |
| 14:36.37 | zilux | ok :-) |
| 14:36.55 | *** join/#openmoko orion__ (n=orion@124-171-180-31.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 14:48.03 | CoreDump | zilux: does speech-dispatcher ship with an initscript? I can't seem to find it in the checkout |
| 14:48.41 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-135-10.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 14:52.11 | CoreDump | audio playback is not perfect |
| 14:52.45 | CoreDump | it add "noise" at the end of ever sentence. Do yo see that as well? |
| 14:54.45 | *** join/#openmoko MuffY (n=chatzill@s55928932.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 14:56.19 | zilux | it is better using a alsa conf file |
| 14:56.21 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.229) |
| 14:56.26 | zilux | just ckecking... |
| 14:57.28 | zilux | http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/test/alsa/.asoundrc.44?rev=50&root=mokotts&view=auto |
| 14:57.53 | zilux | copied to /home/root/.asoundrc |
| 14:58.41 | zilux | for these tests, the PulseAudio server was stopped |
| 15:00.52 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-170.tll.elisa.ee) |
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| 15:06.03 | bmk789 | mokomakefile is failing to retrieve openmoko-terminal2_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.OM-2007.2.applications_3542_.tar.gz is something down or is something wrong with the makefile? |
| 15:07.41 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F6133A.versanet.de) |
| 15:09.19 | Vegar | bmk789: you should ask mickeyl about the terminal |
| 15:10.36 | bmk789 | ? |
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| 15:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko affen (n=kala@194.126.113.157) |
| 15:14.00 | mickeyl | monotone.openmoko.org accidantly pulled a broken revisio |
| 15:14.07 | mickeyl | you can either wait until the next sync. |
| 15:14.11 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.229) |
| 15:14.16 | mickeyl | or pull from monotone.openembedded.org in the meantime |
| 15:15.10 | bmk789 | ok, how often are the syncs? |
| 15:16.07 | univac | mv monotone git ;p |
| 15:16.16 | El_Salvador | Maintaining the overall look and feel of the developers’ Neo 1973, the Neo FreeRunner features hardware improvements such as 2D/3D graphics and a faster 500MHz processor that boosts performance to enable video and audio processing, as well as a new generation of mobile applications emerging from the open source community. |
| 15:16.19 | El_Salvador | 500mhz? |
| 15:16.39 | bmk789 | El_Salvador: from what ive read, its a typo |
| 15:17.10 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.193.171) |
| 15:17.10 | El_Salvador | sure? |
| 15:18.03 | CoreDump | pretty sure |
| 15:19.04 | El_Salvador | ok |
| 15:19.06 | El_Salvador | thanks |
| 15:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X0dd9.x.pppool.de) |
| 15:21.03 | KrisAbsinthe | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 says 400MHz |
| 15:23.13 | *** join/#openmoko anders_ (n=andersg@0x63.nu) |
| 15:29.38 | guaqua | now where is the freerunner name from? |
| 15:30.14 | El_Salvador | KrisAbsinthe: http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi_menuItemID=887566059a3aedb6efaaa9e27a808a0c&ndmViewId=news_view&ndmConfigId=1000017&newsId=20080103005343&newsLang=en |
| 15:32.52 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@pool-72-77-31-63.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:33.01 | *** part/#openmoko _wedge_ (n=david@83-215-147-82.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at) |
| 15:33.05 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
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| 15:34.41 | CoreDump | for some reason alsa stopped working |
| 15:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 15:35.08 | zilux | the PulseAudio server is running? |
| 15:35.24 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@100.84-49-129.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:35.41 | *** part/#openmoko kpanic (n=kpanic@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/kpanic) |
| 15:35.43 | CoreDump | aplay errors out due to missing device |
| 15:35.52 | zilux | try: lsof /dev/snd*/* |
| 15:36.07 | CoreDump | rebooting w/o sd init-script atm |
| 15:37.39 | CoreDump | there is no /dev/snd |
| 15:40.23 | *** join/#openmoko Sarlacc (n=sudharsh@59.92.88.244) |
| 15:40.34 | CVirus | Any words about the Accelerometer's model ? |
| 15:41.09 | josch | ah hi Sarlacc why this nick? |
| 15:41.13 | zash | gah, spam in the wiki :( |
| 15:42.01 | Sarlacc | josch, i like this nick...:P, friends know i am not in home when i am using this |
| 15:42.27 | josch | Sarlacc, okay now this is your chance to get mickeyl :-) |
| 15:43.44 | Sarlacc | mickeyl, hi..a question if you are free now.... |
| 15:43.57 | mickeyl | sure, go ahead |
| 15:45.39 | Sarlacc | mickeyl, yeah so, me and josch has been hacking around with python bindings for libgsmd, low level stuff...now is it worth it to put an extra dbus layer for freesmartphone.org... |
| 15:45.48 | Sarlacc | in our bindings that is |
| 15:46.24 | mickeyl | well, every work is worth it, however |
| 15:46.41 | mickeyl | there's work on a pure python gsmd prototype |
| 15:47.06 | Sarlacc | mickeyl, i understand, i was looking at py-proto using pyserial |
| 15:47.19 | mickeyl | at the end of the day, the question is |
| 15:47.19 | Sarlacc | ..we didnt want to reinvent the wheel |
| 15:47.29 | mickeyl | do you still need python bindings to libgsmd when you have dbus bindings |
| 15:47.40 | Sarlacc | if thats better we'd better concentrate on that |
| 15:47.47 | mickeyl | i think so, too |
| 15:47.53 | mickeyl | i really love to see a |
| 15:47.57 | mickeyl | fully functional python gsmd |
| 15:48.04 | mickeyl | with the proposed FSO dbus api |
| 15:48.13 | josch | is the api ready? |
| 15:48.22 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2584.bb.online.no) |
| 15:48.23 | mickeyl | then we have everything in place to slowly start on revamping the apps to use the dbus API |
| 15:48.29 | mickeyl | and in parallel work on the open phone daemon |
| 15:48.56 | Sarlacc | mickeyl, we have some stuff working...but we were wondering....if some project wants to use libgsmd directly without the dbus stuff, maybe our bindings can help? |
| 15:49.03 | mickeyl | josch: not yet. i will add some more API description files over the weekend and then issue a RFC on the smartphones-standards list |
| 15:49.48 | mickeyl | Sarlacc: sure. python bindings to libgsmd are cool for several things, unit testing etc. |
| 15:49.53 | mickeyl | just have in mind |
| 15:49.59 | mickeyl | that i want to discourage people using libgsmd |
| 15:50.01 | mickeyl | eventually |
| 15:50.19 | mickeyl | since plans are to make the open phone daemon the only thing accessing libgsmd |
| 15:50.23 | mickeyl | and even more later |
| 15:50.26 | mickeyl | phasing out gsmd |
| 15:50.33 | mickeyl | and integrating a standalone modem backend into ophoned |
| 15:50.57 | Sarlacc | oh!...fine..thats cool... |
| 15:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko orion_ (n=orion@124-171-214-130.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:52.03 | mickeyl | the first backend for ophoned will use libgsmd though |
| 15:52.09 | mickeyl | and if you python bindings can help us stabilize it |
| 15:52.14 | Sarlacc | mickeyl, so i guess we will keep working on the bindings hosted at projects.openmoko.org and at the same time keep a lookout for ways to help in freesmartphone.org once we have a nice sexy set of specs? |
| 15:52.15 | mickeyl | then we benefit from that work |
| 15:52.27 | mickeyl | Sarlacc: yes, that sounds like a good plan |
| 15:54.10 | Sarlacc | mickeyl, cool, thanks for all the info... |
| 15:55.29 | Sarlacc | http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=14&release_id=53 if anyone wants to test them out |
| 15:55.45 | mickeyl | nice |
| 15:55.55 | mickeyl | do you have a bb recipe offhand? |
| 15:56.08 | mickeyl | i think we should ship these bindings, so people can experiment on their devices |
| 15:57.09 | Sarlacc | mickeyl, yeah, http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/recipes/?root=python-openmoko but we could use some help from senior guys as we are a tad inexperienced |
| 15:57.47 | mickeyl | aah |
| 15:57.48 | mickeyl | cool |
| 15:57.55 | mickeyl | ok, let me add that to OE and try to build |
| 15:59.03 | Sarlacc | not all of the API is complete though, just those stuff in libgsmd which are known to work |
| 16:02.12 | p0seid0n | Hi mickeyl. I just read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr which is a really great howo, but did you realize the linked file om-launch is missing in subversion ? |
| 16:05.00 | mickeyl | p0seid0n: yeah, i did not have a chance to commit the file. will do over the weekend |
| 16:05.14 | *** join/#openmoko Cute_Wizard (n=cute_wiz@dhcp54130.4u.com.gh) |
| 16:05.22 | p0seid0n | ok, good to know. I wrote my own so far |
| 16:05.28 | mickeyl | oh cool |
| 16:05.30 | mickeyl | can you pastebin? |
| 16:06.09 | SpeedEvil | It's confirmed that the '4.3"' screen size in 'freerunner' is wrong - and freerunner is simply a marketing name of GTA02? |
| 16:06.41 | SpeedEvil | Oh - diddn't see you there, or I'd have phrased that differently. |
| 16:07.07 | mickeyl | to my knowledge 'yes' to both |
| 16:07.21 | SpeedEvil | thanks. |
| 16:07.28 | p0seid0n | It's not really good, but it works |
| 16:07.35 | roh | 4.3" wheres that from? |
| 16:07.42 | p0seid0n | unfortunately only on my machine ;-) |
| 16:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 16:10.03 | SpeedEvil | roh: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2393777675.html |
| 16:10.16 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
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| 16:18.36 | CoreDump | RPROVIDES += "speechd" in package foo results in foo-dev _also_ providing speechd. As soon as some other package "bar" depends on "speechd" it will pull in a _ton_ of -dev packages |
| 16:19.10 | *** part/#openmoko _wedge_ (n=david@83-215-147-82.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at) |
| 16:19.22 | mickeyl | right |
| 16:19.31 | mickeyl | PROVIDES_${PN} always |
| 16:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host36-221-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:20.09 | CoreDump | ipkg will not reveal what pulls in the -dev stuff |
| 16:20.27 | mickeyl | NOTE: package python-gsmd-0.02+svnr127: completed |
| 16:20.29 | CoreDump | it will say package foo (not foo-dev!) depends on -dev stuff |
| 16:20.30 | mickeyl | ok, commiting the package |
| 16:21.06 | CoreDump | !lart ipgk |
| 16:21.27 | Sup3rkiddo | ~lart cdbot2 |
| 16:21.28 | apt | whacks cdbot2 with the cluebat |
| 16:21.39 | Sup3rkiddo | botwars!! |
| 16:23.32 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7dc49.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:23.35 | CoreDump | =) |
| 16:23.52 | CVirus | I learned how to use Pspice today at school .. Suggestions for a Linux equivalent ? |
| 16:24.29 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-170.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 16:27.53 | Sup3rkiddo | whats Pspice |
| 16:28.04 | *** part/#openmoko Cute_Wizard (n=cute_wiz@dhcp54130.4u.com.gh) |
| 16:28.16 | CVirus | Circuits drawing program |
| 16:29.22 | *** join/#openmoko orion__ (n=orion@124-171-132-125.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:29.28 | Sup3rkiddo | like eagle or geda? |
| 16:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBC80.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:30.08 | CVirus | will take a look at those .. thanks |
| 16:37.03 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 16:37.42 | SpeedEvil | xfig |
| 16:38.05 | SpeedEvil | In theory it looks like it might suit, in practice, run away. |
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| 16:56.22 | yoyo | time 4 ride :) |
| 16:56.23 | yoyo | sija |
| 16:58.10 | CoreDump | zilux: I've just pushed an updated sd into OE, any comments? |
| 16:59.40 | SpeedEvil | what's sd? |
| 17:05.04 | zilux | CoreDump: have you the URL please? |
| 17:05.46 | CoreDump | I'll upload the bb somewhere |
| 17:05.54 | zilux | SpeedEvil: sd=speech-dispatcher |
| 17:05.58 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.115.2) |
| 17:06.00 | zilux | CoreDump: ok |
| 17:06.43 | borg_ | CoreDump: nice, i am interested |
| 17:06.52 | borg_ | i had some problems to get it running with navid |
| 17:06.58 | borg_ | s/navid/navit/ |
| 17:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1088826771.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:07.17 | CoreDump | http://hentges.net/tmp/speech-dispatcher/ |
| 17:07.30 | zilux | borg_: you could have tried mokotts :-) |
| 17:07.32 | CoreDump | borg_: thanks to zilux it works now |
| 17:07.56 | zilux | CoreDump: thanks |
| 17:08.22 | *** join/#openmoko FuL|OUT (n=fn@81.84.174.91) |
| 17:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1088826771.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 17:14.48 | zilux | CoreDump: atm DEPENDS indicates flite and not espeak. |
| 17:15.04 | SpeedEvil | zilux: thanks |
| 17:15.10 | CoreDump | espeak is pulled in via shlibs magic |
| 17:15.56 | zilux | ah :-) |
| 17:18.54 | CoreDump | some stutter remains :\ |
| 17:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-3-34.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:20.43 | SpeedEvil | Have you accidentally enabled --max-headroom ? |
| 17:20.49 | zilux | one glitch in one minute of reading? |
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| 17:21.36 | CoreDump | it speaks the sentence, then at the end repeats the first 0.1s of the sentence again |
| 17:22.00 | zilux | I had this without dmix |
| 17:22.02 | *** join/#openmoko dohtem (n=arn@69.4.156.73) |
| 17:22.23 | zilux | the .asoundrc file helped |
| 17:22.29 | CoreDump | installing a systemwide asoundrc is less-than-ideal :\ |
| 17:22.41 | CoreDump | I want it to work OOTB for everyone |
| 17:23.10 | zilux | espeak+pulse can solve this |
| 17:23.43 | zilux | but I have more glitches with it |
| 17:23.57 | zilux | so perhaps pulseaudio 0.9.8, freerunner will help |
| 17:24.28 | CoreDump | even when set to "pulse" I get the stutter |
| 17:25.14 | CoreDump | nm,pulse doesn't work at all=) |
| 17:25.27 | zilux | high cpu usage? |
| 17:26.07 | zilux | here sd+espeak are customized for gta01 |
| 17:27.24 | CoreDump | no, the plugin dies when set to pulse. Maybe my pulse-server is b0rked. Anyway, someone else can fix this... |
| 17:27.35 | zilux | ok |
| 17:29.44 | CoreDump | nice, when sd is running the OM xserver does not play screen-tap sounds |
| 17:30.41 | zilux | same behavior with aplay instead of sd? |
| 17:31.31 | CoreDump | hmm |
| 17:32.02 | CoreDump | aplay: main:546: audio open error: Device or resource busy |
| 17:32.20 | CoreDump | well, that's not very friendly for an alsa service... |
| 17:33.05 | CoreDump | it would mean - on Neo at leat - that SD must only be started on demand, not via init |
| 17:34.33 | zilux | usually with mixing capabilities there are not such issues |
| 17:35.31 | CoreDump | no mixing OOTB on neo then...meh |
| 17:36.44 | *** join/#openmoko _wedge_ (n=david@83-215-147-82.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at) |
| 17:39.41 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r30 10/trunk/software/py-proto/ (pygsmd.py sample.py): fixed parameter bug |
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| 17:50.37 | mickeyl | ~seen writchie |
| 17:50.39 | apt | writchie <n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 17d 22h 58m 24s ago, saying: 'some 4 band 3g phones are called 3 band gsm 900/1800/1900 with UMTS 2100'. |
| 17:50.51 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A72c1.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 17:51.35 | mudyc | mickeyl: are you busy with fso?-) |
| 17:52.24 | mickeyl | pretty much yeah |
| 17:52.36 | mickeyl | dbus api first draft comes along nicely |
| 17:52.45 | mickeyl | will write an official "RFC" to the list on monday |
| 17:52.58 | mickeyl | then we can start using emdete's pygsmd to implement the dbus API |
| 17:53.04 | mickeyl | get some experience with it |
| 17:53.07 | mickeyl | and improve |
| 17:53.12 | mickeyl | only after that |
| 17:53.18 | mickeyl | we start with actual ohphoned |
| 17:53.27 | mickeyl | (at least that's what i would recommend) |
| 17:54.53 | mudyc | i have tried to be active on the list but not much happens without other people :) |
| 17:55.18 | mickeyl | sure |
| 17:55.28 | mickeyl | it's as usual when starting something new |
| 17:55.33 | mickeyl | the "critical mass" is not there yet |
| 17:55.37 | mickeyl | but i'm working on it to change that |
| 17:57.33 | mudyc | do you give svn access to others or prefer patches instead? |
| 17:57.45 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@dsl54009E57.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:59.15 | mickeyl | svn access |
| 17:59.31 | mickeyl | we're small enough at this point of time |
| 17:59.34 | mickeyl | no need to overcomplicate it |
| 17:59.40 | mickeyl | just register @ linuxtogo.org |
| 17:59.45 | mickeyl | then i will invite you |
| 17:59.51 | mickeyl | and you can add yourself an svn key |
| 17:59.58 | mickeyl | projects.linuxtogo.org, that is |
| 18:02.38 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@78.42.60.129) |
| 18:02.51 | PBeck | hi |
| 18:03.16 | Sup3rkiddo | hi |
| 18:03.22 | *** join/#openmoko Magon_ (n=Magon@213.155.227.229) |
| 18:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko tonyg (n=tonyg@82.152.201.120) |
| 18:06.31 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3774 10/trunk/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 18:06.32 | CIA-15 | openmoko: target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: disable HWSWP in LCDCON5 to |
| 18:06.32 | CIA-15 | openmoko: make frame buffer organization consistent with what u-boot's CFB driver |
| 18:06.32 | CIA-15 | openmoko: supports. Note that this requires pixels in swap screens to be swapped. |
| 18:06.32 | CIA-15 | openmoko: This resolves |
| 18:06.34 | CIA-15 | openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1140 |
| 18:06.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - board/neo1973/common/jbt6k74.c (board_video_init): disable HWSWP in LCDCON5 |
| 18:07.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1160 has been created by roman.moravcik(AT)gmail.com |
| 18:07.02 | cdbot2 | * * SMS messages are sorted by date in ascending order. |
| 18:07.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1160 |
| 18:07.28 | mudyc | mickeyl: done |
| 18:07.57 | mudyc | sauna, bbl |
| 18:10.24 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa[AwAy] (n=khmhm@dsl54009E57.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 18:10.29 | mickeyl | have fun |
| 18:12.03 | aospan | Hello ! Which project have more features and more stable ? |
| 18:12.12 | aospan | openmoko-messages or openmoko-messages2 ? |
| 18:14.04 | mickeyl | mudyc: which realname do you have at projects.ltg? can't find you offhand |
| 18:17.22 | rmoravcik | mickeyl: hello |
| 18:17.58 | rmoravcik | mickeyl: do you think it's necessary show gsm applet popup on cipher change? |
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| 18:18.52 | rmoravcik | mickeyl: i was just wondering why i see popup from gsm applet on every incoming / outgoing call |
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| 18:58.23 | emma` | doc|home, can you help me install openmoko? |
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| 19:14.50 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3775 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (eabi-toolchain.patch series): |
| 19:14.50 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - series: enabled eabi-toolchain.patch (and moved it further up) |
| 19:14.50 | CIA-15 | openmoko: - eabi-toolchain.patch: for "raise", use "hang" instead of "_start" |
| 19:21.13 | *** join/#openmoko rbs-tito (n=tito@88-107-112-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko Blastur (n=blaster@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 19:22.37 | Blastur | is GTA02=freerunner? |
| 19:22.48 | LarstiQ | Blastur: yes |
| 19:22.48 | mjr | apparently |
| 19:22.59 | mjr | and no, it's not really 500 MHz, it's a screwup |
| 19:24.19 | Blastur | ok |
| 19:24.55 | balrog-kun | afaik the person who made the announcement was asked to report the cpu's max supported frequency and it is just 500 MHz |
| 19:25.56 | *** part/#openmoko _wedge_ (n=david@83-215-147-82.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at) |
| 19:29.21 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
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| 19:32.10 | Blastur | hehe, ok |
| 19:32.23 | Blastur | so perhaps you can overclock the neo to 500 mhz if you apply additional cooling ^^ |
| 19:33.30 | Blastur | anyway, it's a shame no community updates has been released.. its been 2 weeks since the last one, and i bet people are DYIng to know what the status of the project is.. especially now when a lot of people expected it for christmas |
| 19:33.51 | Blastur | the rumours about march sounds promising, but it'd be good to hear an official say it :) |
| 19:33.56 | roh | temperature is afaik not the problem. the cpu takes overproportional amouts of energy when run at full speed. |
| 19:34.10 | Blastur | oh |
| 19:34.14 | Blastur | its not linear? |
| 19:34.17 | roh | also the busclock goes down due to scaler ranges |
| 19:34.22 | roh | no. |
| 19:34.34 | Blastur | i wish we lived in a linear world |
| 19:34.38 | Blastur | things would be so simple |
| 19:34.47 | Blastur | dont you, roh ? |
| 19:35.14 | roh | you also have to tune the voltage up to make it any stable. 500mhz requres higher voltages according to the datasheet (and all devices crash if not done) |
| 19:35.30 | Blastur | okay, so its not an easy hack :) i get it |
| 19:35.36 | Blastur | i wasn't gonna attempt it anyway |
| 19:35.46 | roh | a linear world world.. dunnoo.. sounds scary |
| 19:35.50 | RedDog | what about underclocking for better battery life? |
| 19:35.59 | roh | easy more or less.. making sure its stable and usefulkl hard |
| 19:35.59 | Blastur | i think it does that already RedDog |
| 19:36.05 | teprrr | what about it? |
| 19:36.16 | teprrr | there's some comparisons in wiki iirc |
| 19:36.26 | roh | RedDog thats part of the still to be done better powermanagement. currently there is only sleep or not |
| 19:36.41 | *** join/#openmoko Eul (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 19:36.42 | Blastur | doesn't it go down to like 12 Mhz clock at some point |
| 19:36.43 | *** join/#openmoko AlexJTanner (n=alex@68-187-80-127.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) |
| 19:36.44 | Blastur | to preserve energy |
| 19:36.48 | roh | dynamic clock and voltage scaling is what i want to see |
| 19:37.02 | roh | 12mhz are not possible. or usable for anything |
| 19:37.26 | roh | then you do not have i2c, spi, lcm or i2s |
| 19:37.38 | Blastur | should be useful for just idling, right? :) |
| 19:37.42 | roh | means basically no io works due to off-range pll |
| 19:37.44 | Blastur | like, in your pocket, looking cool |
| 19:37.49 | RedDog | what is needed and what is allready done for freq. scaling? |
| 19:37.58 | roh | Blastur then it does not need to be run at 12mhz but at 0 |
| 19:38.01 | mickeyl | done = core infrastructure |
| 19:38.04 | SpeedEvil | roh: is the PMU different granularity on the nw one? |
| 19:38.06 | mickeyl | missing = samsung SoC glue |
| 19:38.08 | SpeedEvil | roh: new |
| 19:38.09 | mickeyl | [iirc] |
| 19:38.10 | Blastur | check this RedDog http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management |
| 19:38.19 | Blastur | it may be a bit old |
| 19:38.39 | SpeedEvil | roh: it's .3V in the current one - and 1.5 is just too low |
| 19:38.42 | roh | SpeedEvil its a different pmu afaik, but i do not know which granularity you mean? |
| 19:38.53 | roh | ah.. voltages.. |
| 19:38.56 | roh | hmm.. good question |
| 19:39.04 | SpeedEvil | roh: USB works I think at 12 - seperate PLL |
| 19:39.20 | SpeedEvil | doesn't serial too? |
| 19:39.23 | Blastur | whats PLL? |
| 19:39.30 | SpeedEvil | Phase Locked Loop |
| 19:39.43 | Blastur | i run SPI from my tiny 8-bit AVR cpu at like 4 MHz.. :D why wouldnt it work on neo? |
| 19:39.43 | SpeedEvil | it's a way the CPU generates internal cocks. |
| 19:39.49 | SpeedEvil | s/oc/loc/ |
| 19:39.51 | roh | SpeedEvil gta01 has pcf50606 gta02 has pcf50633 |
| 19:40.13 | SpeedEvil | gg pcf50633 pdf |
| 19:40.14 | SpeedEvil | oodp |
| 19:41.18 | Blastur | btw, i realize the hw schematics of the neo isn't open.. for obvious reasons, but still, what hw info can you share? like exact chipsets and components used? |
| 19:41.26 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco) |
| 19:41.28 | SpeedEvil | the components are mostly on the wiki |
| 19:41.40 | SpeedEvil | the large components that is |
| 19:42.16 | Blastur | ok, like that pcf50633, whatever it is? :) looks like buck vregs? |
| 19:42.28 | SpeedEvil | eleventy-million options. |
| 19:43.09 | Blastur | either way, i guess the easiest way is to just open up the damn thing and look :) |
| 19:43.58 | SpeedEvil | looking at ds now |
| 19:44.14 | roh | SpeedEvil i dunno exactly which revision we use, but i think the regulators are wither 25mV or 100 |
| 19:44.26 | roh | eh 100mV stepsize |
| 19:44.46 | roh | depends on which ldo you look at |
| 19:45.04 | roh | and the LED driver is 1mA stepsize |
| 19:45.04 | SpeedEvil | the CPU isn't on a LDO |
| 19:45.07 | SpeedEvil | that'd be horrible |
| 19:45.48 | SpeedEvil | or maybe it's in series with a SMPS |
| 19:45.49 | roh | SpeedEvil pnx calls anything a ldo.. its low-drop switching regulator stuff.. |
| 19:46.01 | roh | the right ones ;) |
| 19:46.14 | SpeedEvil | DCD? |
| 19:46.24 | Blastur | pnx? |
| 19:46.30 | roh | ? |
| 19:46.51 | SpeedEvil | I was trying to remember the voltage regulator that the neo1973's cpu was on |
| 19:46.55 | Blastur | i can't stop thinking that MAYBE the GTA02 will be publicly available as a surprise on CES in a few days :| |
| 19:47.03 | roh | Blastur philips/nexperia .. the vendor of pcf50633 |
| 19:47.31 | mmontour | Blastur: you said "2 weeks since the last community update". There was one posted to the community list on Jan 2. |
| 19:47.35 | roh | SpeedEvil pcf50606 |
| 19:47.39 | Blastur | what? omg |
| 19:48.13 | SpeedEvil | roh: no - which regulator on the pcf50606 |
| 19:48.24 | Blastur | mmontour: where? i was refering to the "official" community updates page on wiki |
| 19:48.32 | Blastur | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 19:48.36 | roh | SpeedEvil you mean for the cpu? |
| 19:48.46 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 19:49.46 | SpeedEvil | DCUD I think |
| 19:49.58 | roh | DCDE IO_3V3 3300 on |
| 19:50.04 | roh | DCUD CORE_1V8 2100 on |
| 19:50.30 | mmontour | Blastur: see the community mailing-list archive at http://lists.openmoko.org |
| 19:51.40 | SpeedEvil | Is the pcf regulator in gta02 publically datasheeted? |
| 19:51.50 | SpeedEvil | I can only seem to find the brief. |
| 19:52.05 | roh | dunno |
| 19:53.36 | SpeedEvil | Oh well. Can't comment then - just that the regulator on the existing one definately wasn't referred to as a LDO in the datasheet, and has a 300mv granularity |
| 19:53.41 | SpeedEvil | It would be really nice if Freerunner supported better granularity. |
| 19:54.38 | roh | as far as i can see now it should be atleast 100mV, eventually 25mV steps |
| 19:54.57 | SpeedEvil | 100mv isn't perfect - but it's pretty much good enough. |
| 19:55.13 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 19:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 19:56.08 | roh | i think its 25mV .. the 100mV stepping size outpzuts are all <100mA ...the cpu will be on one of the powerfull rails which are 25mV stepping |
| 19:56.42 | roh | but yeah.. that kinda low-prio for me atm.. much more important stuff to solve |
| 19:57.12 | SpeedEvil | good luck. |
| 19:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko enlijoe (n=enlijoe@c-67-186-84-225.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 19:59.15 | enlijoe | hi all any one out there avail for general questions |
| 19:59.31 | enlijoe | II've just got my device and now ready to start work |
| 19:59.55 | LarstiQ | enlijoe: just ask |
| 20:00.20 | *** join/#openmoko aznub (n=wlin@cpe-76-184-155-151.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 20:00.41 | enlijoe | how do I either notify ppl that I'm going to work on something or find out if anyone is working on a task |
| 20:01.06 | enlijoe | I'm thinking of starting the eclipse plugin fist that will allow development on both linux and windows using eclipse |
| 20:01.23 | SpeedEvil | eclipse? |
| 20:02.01 | enlijoe | yes |
| 20:02.17 | enlijoe | a gui-ide |
| 20:02.28 | LarstiQ | enlijoe: euh, read mailing list archives, see projects.openmoko.org, watch the planet, etc? |
| 20:02.36 | SpeedEvil | well - what's stopping you? |
| 20:02.47 | SpeedEvil | Oh - CPU datasheet appears to be 0n www.opatnet.cz/elektronika/datasheet/U/um_s3c2442b_rev12.pdf |
| 20:03.01 | SpeedEvil | It says SC32442B on the frontpage anyway |
| 20:03.14 | enlijoe | nothing I'm just checking to see if there is any orgionziation (egh sorry about spelling) on the diffrent projects for openmoko |
| 20:03.38 | balrog-kun | enlijoe: there's no easy way to know if anyone is working on the task, but a quick check with what LarstiQ said has a high chance of giving you the right answer |
| 20:04.11 | balrog-kun | lists archives + projects.om.o |
| 20:04.33 | LarstiQ | google for a shotgun check :) |
| 20:04.51 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001839d699fa.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 20:05.36 | enlijoe | k just though I would check to see if there was any project managment out there did not want to start right off the bat duplicatting someone else's work |
| 20:06.25 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:06.43 | roh | enlijoe take a look at projects.openmoko.org |
| 20:06.54 | roh | i think a eclipse plugin was planned by someone there already |
| 20:07.28 | SpeedEvil | :) The CPU - for GTA02 - specifies variable cpu voltages from 50-400M - 1-1.5 |
| 20:07.43 | enlijoe | roh: i was just looking there and did not c anything 4 eclipse |
| 20:07.45 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 20:07.48 | Stephmw | enlijoe: there's already a set of plugins for embedded software development for eclipse |
| 20:07.52 | Stephmw | enlijoe: one sec |
| 20:08.20 | Stephmw | enlijoe: http://www.eclipse.org/home/categories/embedded_device.php |
| 20:08.25 | enlijoe | stephmw: ya I saw that was going to start with what they had to c how much work it would take to get it to work |
| 20:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko Proximity (n=leon@fco.xs4all.nl) |
| 20:11.45 | Proximity | hey |
| 20:12.13 | Proximity | any dutch people here? |
| 20:12.33 | Proximity | nvm |
| 20:13.05 | LarstiQ | Proximity: of course :) |
| 20:13.08 | Stephmw | lots of european people :) there's also a .de channel |
| 20:13.42 | Proximity | hehheh, LarstiQ are you dutch then? |
| 20:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:14.28 | LarstiQ | Proximity: yes |
| 20:14.42 | roh | enlijoe ah.. i see.. yes.. originally one of the authors of https://projects.openmoko.org/projects/preity-plugin/ has also a eclipse plugin announced or so |
| 20:14.53 | roh | s/has/had |
| 20:14.56 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum_ (n=Q@75-168-107-1.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 20:15.28 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03werner * r3776 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-usbtty-acm.patch: (log message trimmed) |
| 20:15.28 | CIA-15 | openmoko: This fixes the hang at boot time if usbtty is set but no USB is connected. |
| 20:15.28 | CIA-15 | openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=887 |
| 20:15.28 | CIA-15 | openmoko: The problem surfaced in the first place because upstream changed |
| 20:15.28 | CIA-15 | openmoko: USBTTY_BUFFER_SIZE from 2048 bytes, which was apparently always big enough, to |
| 20:15.31 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 256 bytes, which isn't. The logic of the fix is slightly ugly since we could |
| 20:15.33 | CIA-15 | openmoko: already exit in usbtty_puts if there is no USB. However, this kills the slight |
| 20:19.04 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
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| 20:24.15 | balrog-kun | hmm apparently gllin can still happily work and keep generating NMEA after the hammerhead has died |
| 20:24.27 | mickeyl | heh |
| 20:24.33 | mickeyl | powerful algorithms |
| 20:24.36 | mickeyl | work even without data |
| 20:24.55 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:25.03 | balrog-kun | yeah, amazing technology :) |
| 20:25.35 | balrog-kun | and some of the values (other than timestamp) in the $PGLOR,IGR, sentences keep changing, non-monotonically |
| 20:26.13 | balrog-kun | the coordinates freeze when the hammerhead stops responding, but timestamp is updated on every new sentence |
| 20:28.51 | balrog-kun | gllin on PC in qemu and hammerhead in a real neo |
| 20:29.24 | mwester | *sigh* but if I create that patch, it will doubtlessly be rejected by OM, citing "architectural layering violations", and noting that I should instead fix gllin. :( |
| 20:29.52 | balrog-kun | you could make a layer in between |
| 20:30.56 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:30.57 | mwester | I'm just grumbling. |
| 20:31.39 | mickeyl | which patch? |
| 20:31.51 | balrog-kun | gpsd has no future anyway, according to people in the know that i know :p |
| 20:31.53 | mickeyl | noone would tell you to fix gllin |
| 20:32.05 | mickeyl | at least noone sane would tell you to fix a binary only executable |
| 20:33.23 | mwester | No, but almost as bad. I think someone is trying to say that somebody should rewrite the serial driver to fix #788. |
| 20:33.35 | mickeyl | !ombug 788 |
| 20:33.36 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 788, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 20:33.37 | cdbot2 | * * mwester(AT)dls.net: Starting or stopping gsmd completely locks up the Neo |
| 20:33.38 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 20:33.54 | mickeyl | oh that thing |
| 20:34.02 | mwester | Yep. *THAT* one. |
| 20:34.33 | mwester | s'ok - anyone building with OE picks up a patch -albeit an ugly one, that resolves it. |
| 20:35.21 | mickeyl | perhaps after gta02 ships someone will look at that |
| 20:35.41 | mwester | For what it's worth I did send an email describing the general issues I see with the way the bug tracker and patches are being handled off to some bigwig at OM. Didn't get a response... |
| 20:36.16 | mwester | (that's just one of the handful of patches/issues, lest anyone think I'm all bend-out-of-shape over one bug.) |
| 20:36.38 | summatusmentis | what is FreeRunner? I see it in the topic, I know I'm not supposed to talk about it |
| 20:36.48 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:36.54 | mwester | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.27 | summatusmentis | sorry! |
| 20:37.33 | balrog-kun | it's something that has WiFi and no cam |
| 20:37.45 | balrog-kun | but no everything that has WiFi and no cam is a FreeRunner |
| 20:37.53 | balrog-kun | *not |
| 20:38.07 | mickeyl | mwester: to whom ? |
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| 21:02.03 | *** part/#openmoko _wedge_ (n=david@83-215-147-82.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at) |
| 21:12.06 | SpeedEvil | roh: as I read the datasheet slow mode = FCLK=12Mhz, and as default PCLK is the same, I2C clock can be 4Mhz. I2S I think may not work at quite 44Khz. LCM - probably not, SPI will be slow. |
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| 21:19.38 | Vegar | the neo has an ARM920T core, am I right? |
| 21:20.37 | balrog-kun | yes |
| 21:20.58 | SpeedEvil | roh: a brief reading of the LCM indicates that it can't do 24*640*480*3 - QVGA or QVGA 8 bit mode should be easily possible. |
| 21:21.16 | SpeedEvil | (of course 12Mhz mode with display on is almost useless) |
| 21:22.14 | *** join/#openmoko toxx_ (n=toxx_@106-239-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 21:22.36 | balrog-kun | why, you could implement the nibbles game for a 12Mhz computer |
| 21:22.47 | balrog-kun | it nly requires drawing and erasing a single pixel per frame |
| 21:25.05 | SpeedEvil | Naah - it's nowhere near that bad. |
| 21:25.22 | SpeedEvil | The memory bandwidth at 12Mhz is on the order of 30-40M/s |
| 21:25.33 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 21:25.47 | SpeedEvil | QVGA at 8 bit is 5M/s |
| 21:27.09 | roh | SpeedEvil hmm.. if 12mhz is enough for a clock it wouldnt be |
| 21:28.40 | SpeedEvil | sorry - wouldn't be what? |
| 21:29.21 | *** part/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host114-124-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:29.32 | SpeedEvil | However, it's almost irrelevant. the power saving is negligable, compared to the screen being on I suspect |
| 21:29.51 | SpeedEvil | Also it may be negative as the RAM is active for more time. |
| 21:32.22 | SpeedEvil | I hope to do more hacking on powersaving soon. |
| 21:32.25 | *** join/#openmoko peje (n=peje@86-17.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 21:32.49 | peje | hello everyone |
| 21:34.35 | *** join/#openmoko peje (n=peje@86-17.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 21:36.10 | *** join/#openmoko cyrilRomain (n=cyrilRom@AToulouse-157-1-77-105.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:37.26 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.193.171) |
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| 21:54.56 | cesarb | hm, the certificate for https://svn.openmoko.org:443 seems to have expired |
| 21:55.40 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 21:59.17 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: the default PCLK is FCLK/4 (it's uboot which sets it that way), but nothing prevents you from changing it to FCLK/1 |
| 21:59.47 | SpeedEvil | yes - you have to flip a number of registers. |
| 22:00.14 | SpeedEvil | I was speaking of the default condition as specified in the datasheet |
| 22:01.00 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: the default condition is an odd one (PLL enabled but not actually active until you reprogram it) |
| 22:01.37 | SpeedEvil | yes - I was more looking from a 'can it be done' rather 'is it a default in u-boot' |
| 22:01.54 | SpeedEvil | And I think that most stuff can be gotten working at 12Mhz |
| 22:02.00 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: cool |
| 22:02.41 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: the main problem would be the transitions (it's very annoying that you have to reprogram almost everything on any clock frequency transition) |
| 22:02.47 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.193.171) |
| 22:02.54 | SpeedEvil | yes, pretty much. |
| 22:03.28 | SpeedEvil | And it's probably going to need to resample the audio if you want to get the freq right. |
| 22:03.55 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: if the cpufreq core can be used (my current plan), you can do each driver pretty much individually (each one needs its own cpufreq target notifier) |
| 22:04.14 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I'm not expecting anyone to want to do transitions in the middle of audio playback |
| 22:04.56 | SpeedEvil | I _think_ it can be done clickless in some circumstances - switch to 12Mhz, setup audio for 12Mhz, switch pll, wait for pll to stabilise, set audio for xMhz, switch to that clock |
| 22:05.08 | *** part/#openmoko cyrilRomain (n=cyrilRom@AToulouse-157-1-77-105.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:05.17 | SpeedEvil | it'd be nice. Playing audio can be low load. not mp3. |
| 22:05.37 | SpeedEvil | but getting it working first at all is a big step. |
| 22:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko Aniruddha_NL (n=Aniruddh@s5590cf7b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 22:06.33 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: agreed, which is why I'm so far focusing on the cpufreq core (done, completely untested), timer (done, completely untested), uart (looking at it right now), and lcm |
| 22:06.52 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I want to get to the point where it can get tested on real hardware without getting it completely confused |
| 22:07.21 | SpeedEvil | I was planning on (once I get debug board) abusing the registers directly on a running system. |
| 22:08.41 | fish_ | re |
| 22:14.00 | roh | cesarb actually all the certificates are expired or onto to do so. |
| 22:14.25 | roh | cesarb new ones are underway ;) |
| 22:15.41 | cesarb | roh: I only mentioned that one because svn complained |
| 22:17.29 | roh | ;) |
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| 22:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-173-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:31.20 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I've put up my current work online at http://repo.or.cz/w/linux-2.6/s3c2410-cpufreq.git (branch s3c2410-cpufreq) |
| 22:31.59 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:32.28 | SpeedEvil | may check it later - designing bits for UAV. |
| 22:33.31 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I put it up there mostly so that other people can build on it if they feel I'm going too slowly |
| 22:38.17 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: :D |
| 22:39.49 | cesarb | I've also enabled the magic "mob" trick of repo.or.cz, so people can do anonymous pushing to the "mob" branch there |
| 22:41.19 | mwester-laptop | cesarb: I'm really interested in your work -- as soon as I learn git, I'll take a look! :) |
| 22:41.52 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 22:43.01 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 22:43.04 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: even if you don't know git, you can look at it via the gitweb interface (http://repo.or.cz/w/linux-2.6/s3c2410-cpufreq.git?a=shortlog;h=s3c2410-cpufreq for instance) |
| 22:44.33 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: you just have to look at the "commitdiff" links for the full colorized diff |
| 22:45.37 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: (just don't run it blindly, it's not complete, might do bad things to the hardware, and might even not compile at all) |
| 22:48.29 | *** join/#openmoko cayco (n=root@aaoz146.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
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| 22:55.46 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 22:55.58 | ajbrun | hello there kind sir |
| 22:56.25 | Ghiottone | :) |
| 22:57.28 | Ghiottone | what news? |
| 22:57.46 | ajbrun | erm |
| 22:57.53 | ajbrun | people fear pickles? |
| 22:57.54 | ajbrun | http://www.break.com/index/maurypickle.html |
| 23:00.51 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 23:01.37 | Ghiottone | that's a joke, isn't it? |
| 23:01.58 | *** join/#openmoko cayco (n=root@aaoz146.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 23:02.19 | ajbrun | well it's a joke in the sence that i knew that you meant other types of news, but it's not a joke that people are scared of pickles |
| 23:02.22 | ajbrun | not many |
| 23:02.25 | ajbrun | but they exist |
| 23:03.06 | Ghiottone | I can't really believe it |
| 23:03.28 | Ghiottone | what's there in pickles that can scary??? |
| 23:03.30 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-49-216.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:03.36 | Ghiottone | s/scary/scare/ |
| 23:03.36 | ajbrun | there people scared of buttons and all sorts |
| 23:03.46 | Ghiottone | mmm |
| 23:04.03 | ajbrun | i know what he meant, but that doesn't change the fact that people can be scared of them |
| 23:04.15 | Ghiottone | human brain is becoming completely f***ed up as time passes |
| 23:04.30 | Ghiottone | eheheh apt is a bot |
| 23:04.51 | Ghiottone | I know of a person that is scared of pigeons |
| 23:04.56 | Ghiottone | but that at least make some sense |
| 23:04.59 | cesarb | What's the best way of running an arbitrary command (for instance "make oldconfig") in a package's build environment (i.e. with the setup you see in .../temp/run.*)? |
| 23:05.30 | Ghiottone | cesarb, what about using the devshell command of bb? |
| 23:05.43 | CoreDump | cesarb: I usually edit do_configure and replace the command the the end |
| 23:05.51 | cesarb | Ghiottone: I'm in it (bitbake -i), but can't find the command to do it |
| 23:06.06 | cesarb | CoreDump: that's what I'm going to do if I can't find a better way |
| 23:06.12 | Ghiottone | cesarb, I was not able to find it in the interactive shell |
| 23:06.52 | Ghiottone | . setup-env; cd build; bitbake -c devshell package-name |
| 23:06.58 | cesarb | Ghiottone: ah |
| 23:07.39 | Ghiottone | cesarb, I think you need INHERIT += "devshell" in local.conf |
| 23:07.56 | cesarb | Ghiottone: urgh, more magic |
| 23:08.30 | *** join/#openmoko kloeri (i=kloeri@freenode/staff/kloeri) |
| 23:08.31 | cesarb | Ghiottone: as if playing with embedded cpu frequency registers wasn't fun enough |
| 23:08.42 | Ghiottone | eheheh |
| 23:12.45 | cesarb | file drivers/cpufreq/Kconfig already scanned? <- great... |
| 23:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@196.205.193.171) |
| 23:19.52 | Ghiottone | I'm updating the packages in my public repository. Any wanted package? |
| 23:24.24 | Ghiottone | no suggestion at all? |
| 23:24.36 | SpeedEvil | firefox |
| 23:24.43 | SpeedEvil | (though it doesn't actually build) |
| 23:24.58 | SpeedEvil | Or rather. |
| 23:25.05 | SpeedEvil | t builds but crashes |
| 23:25.21 | SpeedEvil | FF1 will display the profile window but not the main one |
| 23:25.32 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:25.57 | Ghiottone | that's a pretty huge beast to run on the Neo... |
| 23:26.05 | SpeedEvil | dunno |
| 23:26.21 | SpeedEvil | I run FF1.5 all teh time on my PII/300/196 and have run it quite a lot at 128 |
| 23:27.41 | balrog-kun | mozilla runs fine on the N800, it should also work ok on Neo |
| 23:28.06 | NineX | hhmmm |
| 23:28.14 | NineX | firefox on neo ? :> |
| 23:28.35 | balrog-kun | i remember fosdem 2007 when some guy published a optimised version of firefox for the maemo |
| 23:28.50 | balrog-kun | everyone was really amazed because it run much smoother than the default browser |
| 23:28.54 | balrog-kun | ran |
| 23:29.02 | Ghiottone | nice... |
| 23:29.10 | Ghiottone | do you remember its name? |
| 23:29.35 | balrog-kun | no, but i expect his fixes would be upstream by now |
| 23:30.25 | Ghiottone | maybe they went to gran paradiso |
| 23:33.26 | *** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@cpe-071-077-055-135.nc.res.rr.com) |
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| 23:38.40 | Ghiottone | I wonder if the firefox_cvs package in openembedded refers to gran paradiso |
| 23:39.33 | SpeedEvil | one way to find out. |
| 23:41.54 | xcasex | you know what the moko needs. |
| 23:42.03 | xcasex | aside form a stable multiplexing gsmd |
| 23:42.10 | xcasex | an upnp renderer |
| 23:42.20 | xcasex | s/moko/neo |
| 23:43.04 | balrog-kun | and teleportation |
| 23:43.12 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:44.01 | Ghiottone | an include jedi light sword could help in opening beer bottles too |
| 23:44.25 | Ghiottone | what's an upnp renderer, by the way? |
| 23:47.03 | cesarb | Ghiottone: upnp is a windows thingy to open up firewall ports AFAIK |
| 23:47.25 | balrog-kun | i think it's something to integrate the device with your home audio/video installation, not sure |
| 23:48.45 | balrog-kun | like using things as a remote or be controller by a remote or soemthing |
| 23:48.52 | balrog-kun | controlled |
| 23:49.24 | Ghiottone | maybe something like that dlna thing? |
| 23:53.37 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 23:56.13 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 23:57.00 | xcasex | balrog-kun: precisely and a renderer = a player; dunno why the wont call it just that in the specs :/ |
| 23:58.02 | balrog-kun | that's what i suspected :p |
| 23:58.13 | balrog-kun | they will use a different name in every system |
| 23:58.23 | balrog-kun | like in gstreamer you have audio sinks instead |
| 23:58.40 | LarstiQ | balrog-kun: but that makes sense :) |
| 23:58.59 | balrog-kun | LarstiQ: kinda, yes :p |
| 23:59.36 | uriahheep | ...so, is a cam to be expected on the openmoko in the near future? you know... like maybe before next year? |