| 00:11.18 | clare_ | Hi, Bit of excitement here, have loaded the qtopia from SD card and got fizx from 6 satellites |
| 00:11.29 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:11.32 | clare_ | thanks especially Ninex and SpeedEvil |
| 00:11.48 | SpeedEvil | Cograpulations! |
| 00:11.56 | SpeedEvil | err. |
| 00:12.11 | clare_ | How Please do I take a screenshot of ths satellite pic? |
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| 01:14.03 | egn | will Android be able to run on the Neo? |
| 01:14.39 | balrog-kun | if the source is released, yes |
| 01:15.03 | balrog-kun | or of google explicitely makes an armv4 binary |
| 01:15.06 | balrog-kun | *if |
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| 01:16.57 | egn | okay, wont it have to be realeased because of linux being on the GPL? |
| 01:18.12 | balrog-kun | no, the closed-source bit of android is a userspace program |
| 01:18.23 | balrog-kun | like skype or some games on linux |
| 01:18.37 | egn | ah i see |
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| 01:24.33 | SpeedEvil | the blob is the UI + java? |
| 01:25.18 | Twey | Android is going to be closed-source? :-( |
| 01:25.45 | SpeedEvil | Wish I could say I was surprised. |
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| 01:36.14 | balrog-kun | i don't know which part |
| 01:36.47 | balrog-kun | or if there is anything opensource at all in android, except kernel |
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| 02:34.56 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/ce848a736913e04b |
| 02:35.26 | rwhitby | Indications are this will be sometime in the second half of this year, after the OHA commercial partners have released handsets. |
| 02:36.02 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: oh, nice, so that means it will run on the Neo1973 i believe |
| 02:36.10 | rwhitby | egn: ^^ |
| 02:36.41 | rwhitby | I would expect so. And Neo1973 owners are used to waiting for long periods of time ;-) |
| 02:38.09 | balrog-kun | on the other hand i'm inclined to not trust things google states officially |
| 02:38.32 | balrog-kun | like this message for example, it may be true or not |
| 02:38.41 | rwhitby | that's your right I guess. |
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| 06:23.14 | roh | morning europe |
| 06:23.29 | roh | and good midday to asia |
| 06:26.23 | Mononoke | moin |
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| 06:49.09 | derekcorwin | anyone know how to install Sjf2410-linux from the tarball |
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| 07:03.58 | Mononoke | hmm LANCOR vs OLPC case looking like attempt to slow down OLPC distribution, do I sound paranoid or anti M$ if I start connecting it with M$ porting XP on OLPC ? |
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| 07:22.51 | roh | Mononoke youre paranoid.. winxp can only be working properly when the screen is xga or higher res (thats also why the eee does not get a certified sticker) |
| 07:23.09 | roh | besides that the olpc is dead meat already for all 1st worl_ders |
| 07:24.28 | roh | slow, crappy hardware, bad batteries, unusable ui, unusable keyboard.. well.. its made for children in countries where you got nearly no power and or connectivity. with some good software it will do its job. |
| 07:24.51 | roh | if youre searching for something into your handbag, i'ld go for a eee |
| 07:25.20 | Mononoke | the name of Asus' notebook says all what I think of it :) |
| 07:26.22 | roh | Mononoke well.. i had both in my hands already (olpc and eee) and would go for the latter if i need to use one of these. atleast it has a keyboard and a black case. and a proper battery. |
| 07:27.08 | roh | with proper i mean li-ion and not ni/mh (which is good for 3rd world, but not here) |
| 07:27.41 | Mononoke | nod, ni/mh was imho mistake |
| 07:27.48 | roh | if you have the money, spend it and give some child an olpc. |
| 07:28.18 | Mononoke | hey I'm poor student |
| 07:28.26 | roh | ni/mh is no mistake. it was intentionally chosen since you can replace thoisse in the field by an regular electronician with an soldering iron. |
| 07:28.56 | roh | li-ion is dangerous and not buyable as spare part. you would have to swap the whole battery with the battery-.casing |
| 07:29.09 | roh | which is not a problem here, but in africa |
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| 07:29.50 | roh | these guys are not as stupid as it seems sometimes. the olpc is really built to last in such environments and the infrastructure the people have there |
| 07:30.09 | roh | they did a good job in the whole i think |
| 07:30.22 | Mononoke | we'll see in few years :) |
| 07:30.29 | roh | even if its difficult do understand from the limited perspective we as euopeans or americans sometimes get |
| 07:30.40 | roh | s/do/to |
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| 07:31.53 | Mononoke | well africa is huge hole on map of the internet and there is realy need to do something about it :S |
| 07:32.00 | roh | Mononoke youre a student? where are you located? |
| 07:32.10 | roh | morning lorn |
| 07:33.46 | Mononoke | roh: I would answer czecho-slovakia =] |
| 07:34.15 | roh | Mononoke ah. nice. thats not that far |
| 07:36.15 | Mononoke | btw not only africa is "disconnected" for example look on pings from your location to LA and than look on pings from your location to Singapore and so on |
| 07:36.35 | roh | hehe.. bleive me i knoiw about that. |
| 07:36.53 | roh | i am living in berlin. |
| 07:38.05 | roh | my colleagues are in taipeh, bejing, sidy, LA, nyc, somewhrere in poland, different locations in england and braunschweig.. |
| 07:38.35 | roh | we even have an asian and european mailserver to ease the pain of latency for our colleagues |
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| 07:39.03 | alp | is Gismo_C around these days? |
| 07:39.06 | roh | btw.. sorry fo the typos.. the keyboard here is dying (just ordered replacement service at lenovo) |
| 07:39.27 | alp | or any way i could make some changes to the webkit build bot configuration? we've stopped using qmake in favour of autotools |
| 07:39.33 | roh | alp yes. i wanted to meet him today. whats up? |
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| 07:39.54 | roh | aaah.. yes.. thats nice (finally no q-foo needed anymore) |
| 07:40.00 | alp | i think zecke was maintaining the bot before but trolltech have snapped him up now ;-) |
| 07:40.11 | roh | eh? |
| 07:40.35 | roh | yes.. webkit builds were on buildhost-old which was renamed recently afaik |
| 07:41.37 | alp | i don't know, maybe zecke is still maintaining it. he's been busy with Qt development lately though i gather |
| 07:42.14 | roh | i see. well. then please check with him if he will continue maintaining that builds of if somebody else (you?) will take that. |
| 07:44.48 | alp | will do. thanks roh |
| 07:45.06 | roh | just drop me a mail and i will take care |
| 07:46.54 | roh | and now to breakfast and getting that stupid silver glitter out of nmy hair |
| 07:47.03 | roh | ;) |
| 07:56.43 | derekcorwin | can anyone tell me how to install Sjf2410 right quick? |
| 07:57.00 | derekcorwin | it wont make |
| 07:57.05 | roh | derekcorwin not really.. i think besides harald nearly noone used it. |
| 07:57.11 | roh | you have a Q2410? |
| 07:57.17 | roh | or why do you need it |
| 07:57.33 | derekcorwin | I gotta debug board, and i bricked the moko |
| 07:57.53 | roh | well.. then you do not need Sjf2410 |
| 07:58.04 | derekcorwin | I deleted the boot loader |
| 07:58.13 | derekcorwin | uboot |
| 07:58.13 | roh | just the lowlevel_foo for your hw-rev and uboot for the same |
| 07:58.40 | roh | lwlevel_foo gets loaded into ram, execured to get the sdram up and running |
| 07:59.08 | derekcorwin | but I gotta brick |
| 07:59.09 | roh | the uboot gets loaded into ram (both via jtag) and also executed and can be used to partition the mtd and flash itself via dfu |
| 07:59.22 | roh | yes. your brick gets unbricked that way. |
| 07:59.48 | roh | mokmpls.-. i search out the whole manual |
| 08:00.16 | roh | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Using_JTAG_to_boot_from_RAM |
| 08:00.43 | derekcorwin | okay let me look at it for a few mins |
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| 08:36.36 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3759 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/vendor_ti.c: gsmd: remove AT%CPHS from vendor_ti.c (Erin Yueh) |
| 08:38.26 | flexd | mnorning |
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| 09:18.48 | CVirus | WIRESHARK CONTAINS OVER ONE POINT FIVE MILLION LINES OF SOURCE CODE. DO NOT RUN THEM AS ROOT. |
| 09:18.50 | CVirus | LOL |
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| 09:28.58 | Twey | 1,500,000? |
| 09:29.01 | Twey | Gosh. |
| 09:30.05 | _diego___ | your kernel code contains more than 50'000'000 line of code, don't run it as root... |
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| 09:31.55 | SunX2 | Heh, the kernel defines root. |
| 09:32.21 | Twey | Kernel > root. |
| 09:33.55 | roh | hehe.. yeah. but the kernel also seems to have some kind of code quality review ;) |
| 09:34.04 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@122-57-165-28.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:34.10 | AVee | And wireshark doesn't? |
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| 09:35.42 | roh | AVee some code in there really is crappy |
| 09:36.21 | SunX2 | Hm, wireshark is ethereal. Why did they change the name? |
| 09:36.54 | sbeh | to many bugs? |
| 09:36.56 | sbeh | +o |
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| 09:37.17 | SunX2 | Possibly :) |
| 09:37.27 | AVee | Fuss about trademark ownership |
| 09:37.30 | roh | the maintainer changed companys and the old one owns the name. (trademark) |
| 09:37.41 | Hirvinen | _diego___: Large parts of monolithic kernels' code could be run as non-root. |
| 09:38.10 | SunX2 | Oh, nasty. |
| 09:38.14 | AVee | Yeah, lets get minix on the Neo :) |
| 09:38.22 | Hirvinen | \o/ |
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| 09:38.37 | Twey | Hahaha |
| 09:38.41 | AVee | Would be an interesting project... |
| 09:38.50 | Twey | Or the Hurd |
| 09:39.19 | roh | haha.. atleast then the answer to 'is it done yet' is clear for one |
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| 10:47.35 | Blafasel | Did anyone of you try to run/use java or mono on your device? Is it usable (read: works well enough for small scale apps that don't require lots of computing power)? |
| 10:53.34 | alp | Blafasel: mono works pretty well, there's a lot of JIT work going to make it fly on ARM |
| 10:54.21 | alp | miguel posted about some packages a few weeks back, http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Oct-04.html |
| 10:56.06 | Blafasel | alp: Nice, thank you |
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| 11:19.57 | SpeedEvil | On GPS accuracy: http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=VBOX-Products-VBOX_III_RTK&gclid=COCtyPO115ACFQ5hMAoddCIpPA |
| 11:20.06 | SpeedEvil | (no, it's not relevant to the neo) |
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| 11:44.52 | hrw | hej NineX |
| 11:45.44 | NineX | hrw: ave |
| 11:47.01 | NineX | hrw: widze ze moj pijany topic sie trzyma :> |
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| 11:50.05 | hrw | ;D |
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| 11:50.28 | hrw | #oe has it changed now |
| 11:51.12 | NineX | hrw: ;P |
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| 11:54.14 | hrw | NineX: ping |
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| 11:57.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1150 has been created by emanuele.zamprogno(AT)medicinaopen.info |
| 11:57.02 | cdbot2 | * * OE don' t create root image with ext3 FS on AMD64 |
| 11:57.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1150 |
| 12:00.29 | CoreDump | SpeedEvil: that truly is a bad-ass GPS ;) |
| 12:05.58 | NineX | hrw: pong |
| 12:06.42 | SpeedEvil | well - those of them that decided that releasing specs was a bad thing. |
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| 13:07.09 | Richard__ | Hi, Is there technology on X11 like windows direct draw/show? |
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| 13:08.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1151 has been created by roman.moravcik(AT)gmail.com |
| 13:08.02 | cdbot2 | * * Battery plugin status icon isn't updated when neo is running from battery |
| 13:08.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1151 |
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| 13:21.33 | AVee | Geen idee, nooit gebruikt. Irssi piept als er iets gebeurt, doet de windows versie dat ook? |
| 13:21.45 | AVee | Sorry, wrong window :X |
| 13:22.01 | SunX2 | set b off |
| 13:22.05 | SunX2 | In terminal :) |
| 13:22.11 | SunX2 | Unless you actually want it. |
| 13:23.20 | AVee | Nah, someone else is stupid enough to use the windows version and wants an indication on the taskbar. Normally the terminal app should handle that kind of stuff, but on windows... |
| 13:23.37 | SunX2 | Ahh ok. |
| 13:23.44 | SunX2 | Irssi in Windows, hmm |
| 13:24.00 | SunX2 | I'd set up a PI box with Linux and run it from that :) |
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| 13:32.28 | mjr | Richard__, in what sense "like"? |
| 13:33.03 | mjr | anyone happen to know if gprs multiplexing is advancing on the current images? |
| 13:33.16 | SpeedEvil | as I understand it no. |
| 13:33.24 | SpeedEvil | you do know you can't ever GPRS and call? |
| 13:33.35 | Blafasel | Richard__: SDL is a DirectX equivalent for certain values of equivalent.. ;) |
| 13:33.51 | Richard__ | mjr, direct write fb |
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| 13:34.33 | mjr | SpeedEvil, if you mean the usual class b stuff, I know |
| 13:35.04 | Richard__ | Blafasel, I know SDL is a general interface. Doesn't SDL go through X11? |
| 13:35.14 | mjr | I'd mostly like to be reachable while having a gprs connection up |
| 13:36.14 | mjr | doesn't matter so much that the gprs gets suspended |
| 13:36.38 | mjr | Richard__, usually yes if you run it through X11 |
| 13:37.21 | mjr | Basically, on the neo, you _can_ do dirty stuff like writing directly to the fb without regard to the X server |
| 13:37.35 | SpeedEvil | Durty. |
| 13:37.38 | Blafasel | Richard__: SDL can use the framebuffer directly, depending on the driver used. |
| 13:37.55 | Blafasel | At least that's what I recall.. |
| 13:37.57 | SpeedEvil | The advantage of having really dumb video hardware is that it's really dumb. |
| 13:38.10 | SpeedEvil | Writing to video memory can't cause any problems. |
| 13:38.18 | mjr | you probably want to reserve the whole screen from X to ensure it doesn't write there while you do |
| 13:38.26 | mjr | dunno if that works for gta02 |
| 13:38.37 | SpeedEvil | as there is no state to disturb as there would be with an video accellertion chip |
| 13:40.17 | mjr | presumably you could, in a bit cleaner fashion, switch to another vt to do fb stuff? |
| 13:40.26 | SpeedEvil | sure |
| 13:40.50 | mjr | 'course, it's a hijack |
| 13:41.05 | mjr | and will cause problems if some other app wants attention... |
| 13:41.42 | mjr | there is the dga(2) extension for direct frame buffer access mediated via the x server, but I think that's deprecated and not sure if kdrive does it |
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| 14:36.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1152 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com |
| 14:36.02 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko-terminal2 is missing vala dependancy |
| 14:36.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1152 |
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| 14:48.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1153 has been created by roman.moravcik(AT)gmail.com |
| 14:48.02 | cdbot2 | * * Dialer talking window isn't closed, when caller hung up call |
| 14:48.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1153 |
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| 16:12.54 | SpeedEvil | Does anyone happen to know of a usb linux 802.11a adaptor? |
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| 16:15.32 | mwester | Darn, that's a good question. My first reaction is "of course, they must exist!", but some searching of my favorite vendors comes up empty. |
| 16:15.47 | mwester | PCI and PCMCIA cards, but no USB. |
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| 16:22.54 | Sup3rkiddo | hey are there any bored pygtk guys in here? |
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| 16:24.45 | mwester | SpeedEvil: D-Link DWL-AG132 and ZyXEL AG-225H |
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| 16:28.00 | SpeedEvil | thanks! |
| 16:30.03 | Xx13 | Sup3r what's your need? |
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| 16:32.00 | SpeedEvil | mwester: /me is working on a backup comms system for his UAV. |
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| 16:52.21 | mwester | SpeedEvil: "A" band is an excellent choice for that -- you'd lose contact with the device quickly with all the microwave ovens and other interference sources at altitude with b or g. |
| 16:53.21 | CoreDump | well, looks like I found some use for Neo afterall |
| 16:53.35 | CoreDump | it is a perfect USB GPS dongle ;= |
| 16:53.37 | mickey | heh |
| 16:54.02 | mwester | Oh c'mon - at least make it be a bluetooth USB device! :p |
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| 16:54.24 | CoreDump | =D |
| 16:59.04 | ahven | tried that qtopia image with gllin yesterday, the builtin gps w/o a external antenna is poor |
| 16:59.12 | kdean06 | Can anyone in the US tell me what their shipping speed was like? |
| 16:59.58 | ahven | my BT holux got the fix, Neo not - same position |
| 17:00.22 | kdean06 | Did it take 2 days before the Neo was shipped, for instance, or was it dropped at UPS almost instantly? |
| 17:00.34 | CoreDump | ahven: actually the built-in antenna is great. I'm getting a fix in-doors all the time |
| 17:00.43 | kdean06 | Trying to figure out if expedited shipping is worth it. |
| 17:01.18 | ahven | CoreDump: well, Neo was against the window and saw only 3 or 4 satellites, no fix |
| 17:01.24 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: 03 * r9 10/: |
| 17:01.25 | ahven | and for some half an hour |
| 17:01.39 | CoreDump | hmm |
| 17:01.49 | ahven | could try it again now |
| 17:02.33 | SpeedEvil | some windows - especially well inusalted ones are quite attenuative to GPS |
| 17:03.12 | ahven | haven't had any problems with other gps receivers on that spot though |
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| 17:05.09 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r19 10/trunk/standards/telephony/: add telephony directory |
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| 17:12.00 | kdean06 | My order for a Neo1973 has been placed. :D I'm very excited. |
| 17:12.12 | SpeedEvil | Congratulations! |
| 17:12.48 | kdean06 | :D |
| 17:13.11 | mickey | congrats |
| 17:13.18 | mickey | new users, fresh blood |
| 17:16.22 | kdean06 | Hrm... Fresh Blood. Sounds welcoming. |
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| 17:19.37 | Sup3rkiddo | work at freesmartphone has commenced? |
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| 17:22.30 | mickey | yeah |
| 17:22.33 | mickey | still in the kick-off phase |
| 17:22.51 | mickey | but this is going to be my main area for the Q1 and Q2 2008 |
| 17:23.27 | mickey | looking forward to a nice and universal phoned and deviced coming soon |
| 17:23.38 | mickey | + respective dbus APIs |
| 17:23.49 | mickey | (actually vice versa, first the APIs, then the implementation) |
| 17:27.16 | Sup3rkiddo | cool, i was looking to learn from some code....maybe contribute back if it gets in my head |
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| 17:29.27 | mickey | cool. it's pretty much brainstorming right now, but the first code has already landed (prototype implementation of ophoned in python to get a feeling of how to interact with the dbus APIs) |
| 17:32.29 | Sup3rkiddo | mickey, yeah, sounds fun...but will there be any significant overhead with dbus, since especially there might be less powerful mobile phones in the future...but bleh me..i am still a n00b. |
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| 17:33.44 | pH5 | hej mickey, HNY. I saw your vala post and wondered whether it would be feasible to code dbus services in vala? |
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| 17:34.54 | mickey | pH5: absolutely! |
| 17:35.04 | mickey | in fact... |
| 17:35.20 | mickey | i'm seriously considering to write the complete ophoned and odeviced in Vala |
| 17:35.38 | mickey | i'm not decided yet, since this includes several "business risks" |
| 17:36.00 | mickey | but it's _very_ interesting |
| 17:36.39 | Vegar | can you use C libraries in vala? |
| 17:37.11 | mickey | Sup3rkiddo: luckily, performance is not much of an issue here. dbus is relatively lightweight and you have to consider that most of the calls are not time-critical since the modem is muuuuuch slower anyways :D |
| 17:37.19 | mickey | Vegar: yes and no |
| 17:37.22 | mickey | not inline (yet) |
| 17:37.31 | mickey | but writing a .vapi file is dead-easy |
| 17:37.42 | Vegar | ah, ok |
| 17:37.55 | Sup3rkiddo | mickey, oh, the modem thingy didnt strike me... |
| 17:37.57 | mickey | in fact, there's a lot of .vapi files already in the distribution |
| 17:38.01 | mickey | 20 or so |
| 17:38.09 | Vegar | cool |
| 17:39.05 | Sup3rkiddo | goodn night all..may the source be with y'all |
| 17:40.43 | Vegar | vala is very interesting |
| 17:40.58 | Vegar | it's what I've been looking for for quite a while |
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| 17:43.06 | pH5 | mickey: nice, that's encouraging. I only had a quick look right after you added the recipes, everything vala indeed looks much nicer than the general gobject-in-C ugliness. |
| 17:43.48 | mickey | yeah |
| 17:44.12 | mickey | see, for me as a C++/Python evangelist, it puts back the fun into Gobject programming |
| 17:44.46 | mickey | i _hate_ boilerplate code |
| 17:45.26 | mickey | and i loath incredibly_large_function_names_that_encoding_everything_but_the_kitchen_sink_into_the_name |
| 17:45.52 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 17:45.55 | mickey | not speaking about typecasting/checking macros |
| 17:46.09 | mickey | ALWAYS_THE_LITTLE_FINGER_ON_THE_SHIFT_KEY(object) |
| 17:46.12 | SpeedEvil | incrediblyAttractiveCapitalsSpreadThroughTheFunctionNameAreMuchBetter. |
| 17:46.15 | mickey | heh |
| 17:46.40 | mickey | i made my piece with underscores |
| 17:47.03 | SpeedEvil | One or two of them fine. |
| 17:47.10 | mickey | CapStyle is hardly readible, i agree |
| 17:47.20 | SpeedEvil | More than that and you're probably putting too many variables in scope |
| 17:49.00 | tsuramoto | quote worthy |
| 17:49.02 | tsuramoto | ^^^ |
| 17:49.20 | nbd | not my quote, though |
| 17:50.16 | Stephmw | mickey: CamelCase is ok with verbNoun and similar short names, other things should be encoded through inheritance and docs |
| 17:50.18 | mickey | well yeah, i have to admit my excitement about C++ lost a bit over the years. |
| 17:50.26 | mickey | Stephmw: ya |
| 17:50.34 | nbd | somebody once told me there's 10 people and 0 compilers that really understand c++ |
| 17:50.48 | Stephmw | nbd: and they meant binary 10 too |
| 17:50.53 | nbd | probably ;) |
| 17:51.55 | *** join/#openmoko lrg_ (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:52.00 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:52.15 | Xx13 | c++ is not hard, STL can be a bit confusing at first |
| 17:52.31 | Stephmw | stl is often abused |
| 17:53.25 | Xx13 | it takes i bit of time to get used to, and it's always taught in the wrong way |
| 17:54.22 | nbd | i think if it's too easy to misuse and most people don't get it, then it's broken by design |
| 17:54.34 | *** part/#openmoko jptmoore (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 17:55.06 | Stephmw | nbd: if it wasn't, we'd be out of a job |
| 17:55.38 | nbd | with 'most people' i meant 'most people using it' |
| 17:55.42 | Xx13 | there is certainly some truth to that, but given the choice of c and c++, i wouldn't hesitate a second |
| 17:55.50 | SpeedEvil | bcpl! |
| 17:56.08 | *** join/#openmoko Proximity (n=leon@fco.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:56.11 | Proximity | hi |
| 17:58.28 | SpeedEvil | GPRS is PPP only to your provider? there isn't a concept of PPP to an alternative number as it's pulled off before it hits the phone side of the net? |
| 17:59.19 | *** join/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust41.tnt1.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
| 18:03.45 | *** join/#openmoko TeNoVi (n=runegang@9.84-49-252.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:11.09 | Proximity | does anyone haves a idea when the gta02 is released? the still says year's end.. |
| 18:11.18 | *** join/#openmoko _supertux_ (n=marcin@bqx20.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:11.27 | *** part/#openmoko _supertux_ (n=marcin@bqx20.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:11.46 | tsuramoto | see topic |
| 18:11.51 | Proximity | which? |
| 18:12.05 | tsuramoto | topic of irc room |
| 18:12.19 | *** part/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust41.tnt1.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
| 18:12.22 | Proximity | community updates? but i found nothing there |
| 18:12.35 | tsuramoto | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:12.35 | Stephmw | then there's no official update |
| 18:12.44 | Proximity | ok |
| 18:12.49 | Proximity | damn |
| 18:12.53 | Proximity | my old phone died xD |
| 18:12.57 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:13.05 | tsuramoto | reincarnate it |
| 18:13.07 | tsuramoto | ? |
| 18:13.10 | Proximity | no way |
| 18:13.42 | Proximity | my brother sat on it |
| 18:14.09 | Proximity | now it's flat as a coin |
| 18:14.23 | Proximity | or how do you say that in english |
| 18:16.30 | SpeedEvil | coin works |
| 18:16.33 | Proximity | k |
| 18:16.34 | SpeedEvil | pancake is more usual |
| 18:16.41 | Proximity | ok |
| 18:16.44 | *** part/#openmoko TeNoVi (n=runegang@9.84-49-252.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:17.01 | wurp2 | Proximity: I recently gave in & bought the 01 |
| 18:17.12 | wurp2 | I'll buy an 02 when it becomes available :-) |
| 18:17.22 | Proximity | but that one doesn't haves WiFi |
| 18:17.27 | Proximity | haha |
| 18:17.37 | Proximity | but i don't have that much money ;-) |
| 18:17.38 | *** join/#openmoko Xinill (n=xinill@cpb212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:17.50 | wurp2 | I've been having fun with it so far, we'll see if I still like it after I get it back from Michael Shiloh and start using it as my primary phone |
| 18:18.04 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-153-104-255.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:18.11 | wurp2 | If you have a class 1 wifi on your laptop or desktop at home, you can have wireless there |
| 18:18.23 | wurp2 | 328 feet, theoretically |
| 18:18.31 | wurp2 | sorry, class 1 bluetooth |
| 18:19.01 | wurp2 | but you're right, no wifi at internet cafes or whatever :-( |
| 18:19.04 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@host121-81-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:19.08 | Proximity | true.. |
| 18:19.17 | bedboi | hi all |
| 18:19.28 | CoreDump | surfing with a mobile tends to suck in any case |
| 18:19.38 | CoreDump | hey bedboi |
| 18:19.42 | Proximity | yeah, but still :P |
| 18:19.44 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel|away (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBE2E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:19.50 | bedboi | CoreDump: i agree. |
| 18:20.03 | bedboi | it's a bad experience |
| 18:20.05 | Proximity | i think i will wait for the gta02 |
| 18:20.11 | mjr | :P |
| 18:20.16 | wurp2 | I plan to set some stuff up to pull my favorite rss feeds when available & cache them for later browsing |
| 18:20.33 | mjr | (I'll rather surf with that ;) |
| 18:20.53 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel|away (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBE2E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:20.54 | wurp2 | Likewise to list all my music & movies and let me queue them up for dl when available |
| 18:21.35 | Proximity | but the site says year's end, so i think it will take no more than a month or so? |
| 18:22.03 | wurp2 | I think March is more likely :-( |
| 18:22.12 | Proximity | ok |
| 18:22.18 | Proximity | :-( |
| 18:22.39 | CoreDump | I just hope GTA02 fixes the sluggish behaviour seen on GTA01 :\ |
| 18:22.42 | wurp2 | I'm not in any authority, but people in this room often are in the know, and I've never seen someone in the know argue with the March estimate |
| 18:22.56 | wurp2 | What is sluggish, in particular? |
| 18:23.04 | Proximity | i just wanted to ask that :P |
| 18:23.14 | mwester | CoreDump: I think that's more software than hardware. |
| 18:23.18 | wurp2 | Things have mostly been OK for me. The big miss is the media player, which sometimes takes more than a second |
| 18:23.28 | wurp2 | mwester: I was thinking the same thing |
| 18:23.46 | Proximity | to load? |
| 18:23.53 | bedboi | mwester: yep, because qtopia is very responsive |
| 18:23.53 | wurp2 | On the media player, if they would just keep the UI responsive while they have a background thread/process handle starting the media, it would be fine |
| 18:24.13 | Proximity | ok |
| 18:24.45 | bedboi | i guess the theme is adding some overload |
| 18:24.47 | wurp2 | Does the media player on QTopia have any hiccups while playing music? |
| 18:24.59 | bedboi | wurp2: i never tried it |
| 18:24.59 | Proximity | but isn't it multithread then? |
| 18:25.06 | mwester | The theme is pretty much horrid. |
| 18:25.19 | wurp2 | 'cause on openmoko I get periodic clicks where it seems to skip about .1 second of song |
| 18:25.23 | bedboi | mwester: i was trying to be polite :) |
| 18:25.41 | wurp2 | it must be multithread, but it's just not optimized well |
| 18:25.45 | Proximity | okay |
| 18:25.57 | ljp | whats wrong with qtopia theme? |
| 18:26.00 | mwester | I cannot find any way to justify "pretty" at the cost of run-time shading and gradient calculation, and icon rescaling. Yuck!!!! |
| 18:26.19 | mwester | (my comment directed at the Neo's current GUI) |
| 18:26.22 | bedboi | ljp: i was talking about openmoko theme |
| 18:26.23 | Proximity | i've seen some movies on youtube, and i liked it quite much |
| 18:26.46 | ljp | oh. ok. |
| 18:27.05 | wurp2 | Are they rescaling icons? If so, why & where? It seems one of the benefits of coding for the phone is you can pick a resolution and optimize for it |
| 18:27.07 | bedboi | qtopia's theme is quite polished and it seems very light |
| 18:27.11 | mjr | soo, is there a recentish (scaredycat?) build that's reasonably operational for calls? |
| 18:27.40 | mwester | wurp2: Yes. they rescale almost *everything* and then since that isn't enough CPU, they also calculate the gradient (color) dynamically!!! |
| 18:28.01 | bedboi | gradients suck |
| 18:28.03 | mwester | Someone posted a hack that turns off the theming, and the Neo is very snappy that way (although UGLY!) |
| 18:28.27 | bedboi | mwester: so my guess was right |
| 18:28.34 | wurp2 | mwester: Ack! I was wondering why the gradients were so coarsely graduated - I mean, the extra memory for pre-calculated gradients must be very small, so I thought they would just build the prettiest icons & bars they could |
| 18:29.39 | wurp2 | I had been focusing on openmoko, basically out of loyalty, I guess. Maybe I should install qtopia :-/ |
| 18:31.01 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:32.08 | bedboi | wurp2: i installed qtopia just for being able to make/receive calls reliably, btw it's very bad that you can't develop gtk+ things |
| 18:32.15 | ljp | nothing wrong with installing qtopia |
| 18:32.21 | bedboi | so for me is quite useless |
| 18:33.21 | ljp | dont like c++? |
| 18:33.43 | mjr | suppose I could store my current image |
| 18:35.20 | *** join/#openmoko enjahova (n=enjahova@user85.freac.fsu.edu) |
| 18:36.01 | Proximity | can't you make phone calls with openmoko then? |
| 18:36.05 | Proximity | :-/ |
| 18:36.48 | mwester | wurp2: Once it's all working, I would expect that someone would pre-generate the icons and other objects for the Neo -- that only makes sense. Its just right now that things are very slow, because its a lot of work to pre-scale and shade the icons, if they change so often. |
| 18:36.48 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A546DA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:36.49 | mjr | you can |
| 18:37.04 | mjr | just the reliability of the gsm stack has been varying somewhat, it seems... |
| 18:37.12 | mmontour | Calls work most of the time with current builds. I still have audio problems (echo). |
| 18:37.29 | mjr | Echo on the remote end? People complain about that to me. |
| 18:37.46 | mmontour | Yes, on the remote. It sounds OK from the Neo itself. |
| 18:38.21 | mmontour | I was able to improve it a bit by adjusting some of the mixer levels, but the problem is still there. |
| 18:38.58 | wurp2 | I read someone on here a couple of weeks ago that said they eliminated the echo problem |
| 18:39.15 | wurp2 | I haven't been able to try it yet, since I still have to get the gsm modem update to be able to use my SIM |
| 18:39.22 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host98-60-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:40.04 | wurp2 | {KrisAbsinthe} It was quite a while ago about the audio: the echo is caused by the phone. If you manually change the settings in alsamixer turn down the amplification and up the actual audio volume to 1 red bar it sounds great, gets rid of that crappy airy sound too |
| 18:40.41 | wurp2 | mmontour: It sounds as if it's just what you already did, though :-( |
| 18:43.51 | mmontour | Actually the changes I made shouldn't have made a difference - the circuits shouldn't have been in the audio path in the first place (but it did help) |
| 18:43.55 | *** part/#openmoko Xinill (n=xinill@cpb212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:48.58 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:59.45 | wurp2 | mmontour: Thanks, updating my notes :-) |
| 19:05.46 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-29-24.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:12.01 | *** join/#openmoko ifeel (n=ifeel@151.70.134.61) |
| 19:18.46 | *** join/#openmoko Proximity (n=leon@fco.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:19.23 | Proximity | hmm, the notation of the dates is mm/dd/yyyy, isn't it? so 12/06/2007 is the sixth of december? |
| 19:20.10 | wurp2 | Proximity: Another thing to consider about getting an 01 is that there are many SIM cards it doesn't work with when you get it - you have to ship it to Michael Shiloh to get the firmware updated (which is free) |
| 19:20.23 | Proximity | huh? |
| 19:20.24 | CoreDump | I wished everyone could agree on a single damn date format |
| 19:20.25 | wurp2 | I think you only really care about that if you're in the US, though |
| 19:20.48 | mmontour | Is that still an issue, or are GTA01s now shipping with a fixed GSM firmware? |
| 19:20.53 | Proximity | what do you mean? i am in the netherlands btw, but you mean that the firmware on the sim isn't compatible with the phone, or the phone with the sim? |
| 19:20.57 | wurp2 | I got mine just a couple of weeks ago |
| 19:21.01 | wurp2 | and it wasn't updated |
| 19:21.05 | mwester | Proximity: bug #666 |
| 19:21.09 | Proximity | k |
| 19:22.44 | Proximity | ok.. but i still want the 02 :-p |
| 19:23.05 | mwester | So does everyone. It's just progressing in "moko-time" |
| 19:23.14 | Proximity | hehheh |
| 19:23.23 | wurp2 | The firmware on the phone is not compatible with all SIMs |
| 19:23.36 | wurp2 | but they have the fix, it just isn't on all the phones |
| 19:23.43 | Proximity | okay |
| 19:23.54 | *** join/#openmoko buffoon (n=buffoon@dadsl-245037.rol.raiffeisen.net) |
| 19:24.01 | Proximity | but why dont they put it on the phones while producing :-S =P |
| 19:24.08 | Proximity | yeah |
| 19:24.11 | wurp2 | and they don't have the right to distribute the fix, or the software to install the fix, or something |
| 19:24.15 | Proximity | true |
| 19:24.18 | mmontour | CoreDump: ISO 8601 (date format) |
| 19:24.21 | Proximity | okay |
| 19:24.38 | wurp2 | I agree that they should put it on the phones before they ship 'em |
| 19:24.46 | Proximity | but |
| 19:24.53 | wurp2 | but apparently they don't, because it's not on mine |
| 19:25.00 | Proximity | it is their phone, isn't it? then it's their licence, or am i wrong? |
| 19:25.03 | mjr | they have the ok to distribute the fix, that's why you _can_ get it fixed. The phones being shipped are probably in a warehouse somewhere already... |
| 19:25.06 | mwester | The existing stock of GTA01's was probably mfgr's many months ago. |
| 19:25.16 | wurp2 | The gsm software, or part of it, is by TI |
| 19:25.22 | Proximity | oh ok |
| 19:25.28 | *** join/#openmoko liberweesco (n=libervis@78-1-115-119.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 19:25.41 | mjr | spesifically the low level GSM software which is inside the GSM chipset itself |
| 19:25.43 | wurp2 | mwester: Sure, but it's cheaper & easier to update it there before they ship rather than ship to me, then I ship to Michael, then he ships it back |
| 19:26.21 | mwester | Yes, cheaper and easier for OpenMoko the company to ignore the firmware, and let you and Michael deal with the trouble of upgrading it. :( |
| 19:26.22 | Vegar | soon(TM) you can update it yourself |
| 19:26.23 | Proximity | how much would that cost, from the netherlands? |
| 19:26.24 | mjr | one would hope they get the go-ahead to distribute a method of field upgrading |
| 19:26.38 | mjr | Vegar, yeah, at least that has apparently been in the works... |
| 19:27.16 | Vegar | 12/09/2007 - We've been informed that everything legal has been agreed upon by all parties regarding the process that would allow you to upgrade your own GSM firmware. All that remains is to get everything signed. Apparently the process of getting things signed takes a few weeks! |
| 19:27.48 | wurp2 | Vegar: yeah, so I'm torn between shipping & waiting |
| 19:27.49 | mjr | Vegar, let's cross fingers, but not hold breath |
| 19:28.29 | Proximity | no.. holding breath would be stupid.. one minute is my limid xD |
| 19:29.12 | ifeel | does someone know about the battery duration of GTA02v5?? |
| 19:29.38 | Vegar | ifeel: no, nobody knows yet |
| 19:30.33 | ifeel | Vegar: but it has been produced in a small number...for developers... |
| 19:31.20 | Vegar | the software doesn't do much power saving yet |
| 19:32.45 | ifeel | Vegar: ok...but new battery is bigger than previous one...it shoud be better! |
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| 19:37.37 | p0seid0n | I'm just tryin to get OM running using this howto: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr but the linked script http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/xoo/om-launch is no longer available |
| 19:37.50 | p0seid0n | maybe you know where I can get it ? |
| 19:39.19 | *** join/#openmoko emre_ (n=emre@88.232.8.152) |
| 19:40.00 | balrog-kun | if it was in svn, it should be possible to still get it from svn |
| 19:40.11 | balrog-kun | svn remembers every file forever |
| 19:40.21 | balrog-kun | but the commands are tricky |
| 19:40.25 | p0seid0n | good idea, i'll try |
| 19:42.19 | emre_ | Hi folks, is there a function like gnome_play_sound() in somewhere in the current openmoko repo. Is it feasible to port libgnome? |
| 19:42.32 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 19:43.16 | p0seid0n | balrog-kun: no success. the whole folder "xoo" was only added within the last revision. |
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| 19:48.12 | wurp2 | p0seid0n: It sounds as if someone forgot to add a file. |
| 19:48.20 | wurp2 | or to commit it |
| 19:48.23 | p0seid0n | wurp2: yeah |
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| 19:48.56 | p0seid0n | I guess I will be able to start Xephyr/Matchbox/Moko manually, but it would save me some time |
| 19:49.08 | wurp2 | I can't even get the MokoMakefile to build |
| 19:49.15 | wurp2 | It always fails on some fetch in zlib |
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| 19:53.33 | mwester | wurp2: Yes, known problem. Just find the binary somewhere, add it to the downloads or sources directory manually (create the .md5 matching file if necessary), and retry. |
| 19:53.42 | p0seid0n | mickeyl , you there ? |
| 19:57.35 | wurp2 | mwester: Hey, thanks! |
| 19:57.59 | wurp2 | Is MokoMakefile under source control somewhere so I can fix it in there, or at least make it spit out a message telling the user how to solve it? |
| 19:58.46 | mwester | The problem is temporary; IIRC it's been fixed upstream but it will take time to trickle down to the openmoko repo. MokoMakefile has no knowlege of that part of the build. |
| 20:00.56 | TrippleSix | btw what is the difference between a 3G sim card, and a 'normal' sim? |
| 20:01.58 | wurp2 | OK, thanks |
| 20:02.05 | wurp2 | I'll leave it as just a note on the wiki, then |
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| 21:54.39 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=fredsiba@nrbg-4dbfc755.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 21:57.49 | *** join/#openmoko brencelj (n=chatzill@clj11-146.dial-up.arnes.si) |
| 22:02.03 | *** join/#openmoko JOSF (i=JOSF@53d82646.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 22:02.24 | JOSF | Hi! Where do I find infrmation regarding the status of the project ? |
| 22:04.06 | JOSF | SpeedEvil: Oh ;-) Thanks. |
| 22:04.23 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, no more info |
| 22:04.27 | SpeedEvil | well - little |
| 22:04.51 | JOSF | Will the next releases also contain Bluetooth and keep the GPS ? |
| 22:05.07 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:05.14 | JOSF | I guess there has been no design preview as for the new devices, which I hope look less than Playschool toys. |
| 22:05.25 | JOSF | GPS is damn important, IMO |
| 22:05.40 | SpeedEvil | they'll look exactly the same as the current one |
| 22:05.41 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@psnet.cc) |
| 22:05.48 | SpeedEvil | well - the buttons will be translucent |
| 22:09.01 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.193.171) |
| 22:09.47 | hrw | and have leds behind |
| 22:10.07 | hrw | AUX led is currently one color, Power led has 3 colors |
| 22:10.14 | SpeedEvil | that's not a visible differnce normally |
| 22:10.26 | hrw | at least it was like that on gta02 which I saw in December (no idea which rev it was) |
| 22:10.32 | SpeedEvil | Can the PMU do LED flashing when off? |
| 22:10.40 | hrw | no idea |
| 22:11.18 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=fredsiba@nrbg-4dbfc95b.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 22:14.10 | JOSF | What I do not understand is: On the screenshots they show you something, that looks like a functional UI with applications. Yet, they say it is not possible to place calls and send messages ? |
| 22:14.14 | thseiler_ | SpeedEvil: Regarding GPRS, you are right: There are no phone numbers and therefore you cannot establish a ppp session between two phones |
| 22:14.32 | SpeedEvil | thseiler_: thanks |
| 22:14.40 | SpeedEvil | josch: calls mostly work |
| 22:14.46 | hrw | JOSF: you can call and send/receive smses |
| 22:15.12 | JOSF | So the phone is _basically_ working as a mobile-phone as of yet? |
| 22:15.13 | thseiler_ | There is however the concept of APN (access point name) that can be used to connect to different networks (ie one for MMS delivery and another one for generic internet) |
| 22:15.44 | josch | SpeedEvil, peep? |
| 22:15.50 | SpeedEvil | josch: sorry |
| 22:16.06 | SpeedEvil | It's all his fault! |
| 22:16.08 | hrw | JOSF: as very poor cellphone |
| 22:16.15 | SpeedEvil | And nothing to do with my lousy completion skills. |
| 22:16.16 | hrw | JOSF: nokia 3210 works better as phone |
| 22:16.20 | SpeedEvil | 1100 |
| 22:16.41 | ljp | you can always use qtopia on it. this works well for months |
| 22:17.27 | JOSF | josch: Yes, it's my fault ;) |
| 22:17.46 | ljp | including txt messages |
| 22:17.53 | josch | ah what the... ? :-D |
| 22:18.22 | SpeedEvil | josch: I typed jos: to respond to josf - but it completed to you. |
| 22:18.27 | JOSF | hrw: Why do you name the Nokia 3210 (which I don't know). Wouldn't that mean, that any mobile works better as a phone, yet ? |
| 22:18.37 | SpeedEvil | josch: it's a basic phone |
| 22:18.39 | SpeedEvil | sigh |
| 22:18.41 | SpeedEvil | josf: |
| 22:18.48 | JOSF | SpeedEvil: Yes? |
| 22:18.53 | JOSF | ;) |
| 22:18.53 | josch | ah now I understand completely - nearly thought of me being important ^^ |
| 22:18.56 | SpeedEvil | JOSF: it's a basic phone |
| 22:19.06 | SpeedEvil | josch: sorry - I can't type is all. |
| 22:19.10 | JOSF | josch: but you are important ;) |
| 22:19.11 | hrw | JOSF: nokia 3210 is ~8 years old phone |
| 22:19.13 | josch | SpeedEvil, now prop ^^ |
| 22:19.37 | JOSF | hrw: Ah, okay. It was in the time of the 6110, right ? I have a 6150 |
| 22:20.00 | hrw | JOSF: 3210 was at 6150 time iirc |
| 22:20.14 | hrw | 6110 was highend when 5110 was lowend |
| 22:20.19 | JOSF | hrw: yup, now I remember |
| 22:20.22 | hrw | I think |
| 22:21.01 | mjr | that hardly matters |
| 22:21.20 | JOSF | Are there any alternative efforts going on as to the top-level framework ? I would be glad to have the UI be pure XHTML+JS+CSS or, even better, the Mozilla framework. |
| 22:21.59 | hrw | JOSF: mozilla on arm suxx |
| 22:22.04 | thseiler_ | JOSF: wow that will be a bit hard on CPU resources, me thinks |
| 22:22.15 | mjr | no you wouldn't |
| 22:22.27 | mjr | (ljp here will now proceed to sell qtopia) |
| 22:22.30 | JOSF | I see |
| 22:22.38 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@libervis/athing) |
| 22:23.11 | JOSF | But XHTML+CSS+JS would be an option, since there is a web-browser in it, isn't ? |
| 22:23.23 | thseiler_ | JOSF: Nevertheless, it would be intersting to learn what advantage you saw in using XHTML+JS+CSS |
| 22:23.32 | thseiler_ | s/intersting/interesting/ |
| 22:24.02 | JOSF | If it would be able to combine this with Python also it would make a hell better resolution, since every web-designer, everybody who can design desktop widgets and programmers alike could write littel apps |
| 22:24.17 | JOSF | thseiler_: Isn't that obvious? |
| 22:24.37 | hrw | JOSF: you want to have working device or slow device? |
| 22:24.39 | JOSF | Just have a look at the number of Mozilla extensions and compare it to the number (and quality) of browser-helpers on IE |
| 22:24.48 | mjr | python is quite usable. Integrating that with a browser, well, have fun with that. |
| 22:25.06 | JOSF | hrw: So the phone is not suitable for browsing web-pages? It makes it slow ? |
| 22:25.08 | hrw | JOSF: then boot pentium2/400MHz with 128M ram and run any mozilla stuff on it |
| 22:25.24 | hrw | Gecko is fscking slow and cpu hungry |
| 22:25.35 | JOSF | I already ditched Mozilla, as you folks said: Too heavy. But I am still focussing XHTML+JS+CSS |
| 22:25.46 | SpeedEvil | hrw: I regularly run FF1.5 on my PII/300/196 |
| 22:26.16 | SpeedEvil | I diddn't upgrade from 128 though I had the 64 SIM sheerly due to laziness for a couple of months |
| 22:26.24 | ljp | JOSF: yes, there is qtopia, that works well on the neo |
| 22:26.32 | hrw | SpeedEvil: I made minimo working in OE - did you tried it on neo? |
| 22:26.37 | SpeedEvil | however, I note that make build-firefox doesn't work |
| 22:26.41 | JOSF | qtopia is a C++ toolkit, if I am correct? |
| 22:26.44 | SpeedEvil | no |
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| 22:27.47 | ljp | JOSF: qtopia is c++ gui environment based on Qt |
| 22:27.57 | thseiler_ | JOSF: What about flash ? |
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| 22:29.55 | mjr | that's two cues to go to bed |
| 22:29.59 | hrw | thseiler_: Adobe Flash? |
| 22:30.08 | thseiler_ | hrw |
| 22:30.11 | thseiler_ | ups |
| 22:30.16 | thseiler_ | hrw: or the open source alternative gnash |
| 22:30.20 | NineX | re |
| 22:30.48 | JOSF | thseiler_: Flash requires binary contact. And binary contact with a proprietary technology usually means higher costs for developers, which means less developers. |
| 22:31.07 | thseiler_ | was just an idea... |
| 22:31.18 | JOSF | thseiler_: In theory, with XHTML+JS+CSS every web-designer on this world could become an application developer! |
| 22:31.56 | thseiler_ | JOSF: still you would want to avoid coding the more heavy stuff in JS |
| 22:32.03 | JOSF | And judging by the sheer amount of Firefox extensions, which are not more than XML+CSS+JS, one could imagine, how many users, with little programming lanugage skills, may come and program their own device and publish these. |
| 22:32.17 | JOSF | thseiler_: You mean, because the CPU is too slow? |
| 22:32.36 | JOSF | Of course, I am talking top-level framework. |
| 22:32.56 | JOSF | Not what's underneath it. Programming the GPS with Javascript, well, uhm, hehe, not the best idea. |
| 22:33.05 | SpeedEvil | josch: write something nice and fast, and ... |
| 22:33.11 | SpeedEvil | JOSF: I mean |
| 22:33.15 | JOSF | There you did it again ;) |
| 22:33.32 | thseiler_ | JOSF: i think the faster the ui can respond to what the user does, the sooner the cpu can go back to sleep mode |
| 22:33.35 | josch | olol |
| 22:33.43 | hrw | JOSF: when I see how firefox slow down with some of those extensions I do not feel that they are good written |
| 22:33.46 | _JOSF | SpeedEvil: I changed nick ;) Oh, no |
| 22:33.57 | CVirus | Where's my GTA02v5 ? |
| 22:34.01 | josch | kk /me goes to sleep now :-D |
| 22:34.06 | SpeedEvil | hrw: the problem in many ways isn't the author though. |
| 22:34.07 | CVirus | What is the status of the wifi driver ? |
| 22:34.11 | thseiler_ | JOSF: the more juice you save in the battery, the longer the light stays on :-) |
| 22:34.15 | josch | g'night SpeedEvil ^^ |
| 22:34.33 | SpeedEvil | hrw: how do you tell how much RAM/CPU/... your extension uses? |
| 22:34.36 | SpeedEvil | josch: night. |
| 22:34.57 | hrw | CVirus: more or less: works |
| 22:34.58 | SpeedEvil | Other than (forex) valgrind |
| 22:35.09 | AJOSF | Does the Apple iPhone use XHTML+CSS+JS as it's app-development framework ? |
| 22:35.16 | CVirus | hrw: when can you say it's ready ? |
| 22:35.18 | hrw | SpeedEvil: no idea |
| 22:35.19 | thseiler_ | SpeedEvil: on the neo ? uh |
| 22:35.28 | hrw | CVirus: I cant tell that as I do not have gta02 |
| 22:35.38 | SpeedEvil | Which is using a CNC precision stamping machine to crack a nut. |
| 22:35.51 | CVirus | hrw: thanks for the info |
| 22:36.03 | thseiler_ | AJOSF: its very similar to the widgets they use on the dashboard |
| 22:36.04 | CVirus | hrw: so when do you expect the GTA02v4 to be fully tested ? |
| 22:36.09 | CVirus | pass the tests* |
| 22:36.10 | Stephmw | AJOSF: we're supposed to know before they release their SDK? |
| 22:36.23 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
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| 22:37.20 | hrw | CVirus: I am not openmoko PR team member so can not tell |
| 22:37.27 | CVirus | thanks for the info anyways |
| 22:38.32 | thseiler_ | AJOSF: ok so the important message is that 99% of the app that need to be written for openmoko don't need more that they can get by xhtml + js + css |
| 22:38.56 | SpeedEvil | CVirus: as I understand, there is work going on on the wireless driver and the video accel chip. |
| 22:39.00 | thseiler_ | AJOSF: doesn't nessecarily meant that the have to use xhtml + js + css |
| 22:39.35 | SpeedEvil | CVirus: this will continue until they think they can test out that hardware enough to assume that there proabbly aren't seriuous hardware bugs remaining in those subsystems. |
| 22:39.46 | CVirus | I see |
| 22:39.46 | SpeedEvil | CVirus: only then will GTA05 be made |
| 22:39.57 | SpeedEvil | fixing all the known bugs |
| 22:40.18 | CVirus | hopefully |
| 22:40.28 | CVirus | long time no community updates |
| 22:40.32 | SpeedEvil | attempting to fix all the known bugs |
| 22:41.31 | CVirus | me too |
| 22:41.56 | AJOSF | thseiler_: No, the message is, that by using XHTML+CSS+JS and still having the fine-grained, more powerful API below it would make for much more applications being developed. This way it is an opt-in: You get yourself an OpenMoko but are closed to software others write for you. XML+JS is open to power-users as well. And I suggest, that the more than 2000 Yahoo Widgets, the more than 4000 Firefox extensions would not exist if they would have gone |
| 22:41.56 | AJOSF | a C++ (or C) toolkit . The magic lies within the ease of XML and the ease of JS. |
| 22:42.29 | thseiler_ | AJOSF: ok, got it, we need both |
| 22:42.33 | AJOSF | Also such things are much more easily skinnable. |
| 22:42.38 | AJOSF | Yup. |
| 22:44.16 | thseiler_ | there is openmoko browser (css + xhtml) |
| 22:44.33 | thseiler_ | all it needs is tight integration into the framework |
| 22:44.59 | AJOSF | no JS? |
| 22:45.34 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand_ (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 22:45.45 | AJOSF | Basically it would need a JS interpreter, that is integrated tightley into the framework, giving access to lower-level API stuff. |
| 22:45.54 | thseiler_ | right |
| 22:46.09 | AJOSF | Like the lower-level API would deliver services and the JS would process the results of it. |
| 22:46.09 | thseiler_ | it also needs callback upon interesting events |
| 22:46.14 | SpeedEvil | AJOSF: write a fast, optimised JS interpreter, and lots of people will love you. |
| 22:46.15 | AJOSF | sure |
| 22:46.19 | thseiler_ | that can be registere |
| 22:46.23 | thseiler_ | and timers |
| 22:46.39 | AJOSF | SpeedEvil: Maybe it did not shine through: All I can do is Python, XML, JS, CSS, SQL (and LDAP) ;-) |
| 22:46.45 | AJOSF | I am not a programmer. I am a power-user. |
| 22:46.55 | thseiler_ | we would probably need an interpreter per widget |
| 22:47.08 | thseiler_ | that uses probably a lot ressources. |
| 22:47.22 | AJOSF | thseiler_: I think that could be done without an interpreter per widget. |
| 22:47.22 | thseiler_ | but it can be done, no question about it. |
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| 22:47.41 | thseiler_ | AJOSF: how ? |
| 22:47.51 | AJOSF | Just a question on the carefgul layout behind the context-switching, I guess. But I am not a pro in this respect |
| 22:48.10 | AJOSF | Yahoo widgets have a seperate engine per widget. But tha's only Yahoo widgets. |
| 22:48.18 | AJOSF | Other widget engines do it in one process. |
| 22:48.30 | AJOSF | Forgot which. Read an article on this two years ago |
| 22:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko Nr18 (n=joris@server1.vreeburg.biz) |
| 22:48.57 | thseiler_ | ok will go and google some articles about it... |
| 22:49.27 | AJOSF | Mozilla has a single interpeter too. Still, all of Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. is being written with what they once called XPFE: XUL (XML), CSS, JS (and the libraries, that you can access from JS, called XPCOM) |
| 22:49.56 | AJOSF | thseiler_: It may have been in the german magazine c't |
| 22:50.12 | AJOSF | Check out for Konfabulator (abandoned, as it seems) |
| 22:50.20 | AJOSF | No, not Konfabulator, that is now Yahoo widgets |
| 22:50.25 | AJOSF | I meant: Kapsules |
| 22:50.47 | thseiler_ | ok, thanks |
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| 22:52.17 | thseiler_ | it would be crucial to have a good d-bus to js bridge |
| 22:52.39 | AJOSF | thseiler_: Absolutley! |
| 22:52.50 | AJOSF | That would be a dream, if implemented well. |
| 22:53.22 | thseiler_ | then we would not need to come up with separate api's for telephony, sms, wifi, etc but just use the underlying dbus api in js |
| 22:53.24 | AJOSF | On KDE they have now KROSS. I did not use it, yet, but I am eager to test it out, once I have my Linux desktop-system set up. |
| 22:53.35 | thseiler_ | i think i can finally see what you are hinting at :-) |
| 22:53.36 | AJOSF | thseiler_: sure |
| 22:53.41 | AJOSF | ;) |
| 22:54.11 | AJOSF | But I am not talking about widgets. More about the way the new Web-Applications are being envisualized. |
| 22:55.44 | thseiler_ | there is however a think that i fear: animations |
| 22:55.55 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@78-1-115-119.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 22:56.01 | thseiler_ | suppose you want to implement a simple fade in |
| 22:56.07 | thseiler_ | as seen on iphone |
| 22:56.23 | thseiler_ | how would you do that on XHTML? |
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| 22:57.48 | thseiler_ | is there a css property like alpha ? |
| 22:58.03 | AJOSF | thseiler_: That depends on browser-implementations |
| 22:58.12 | AJOSF | Check those Ajax toolkits. They all have fades |
| 22:58.33 | AJOSF | But yes, there is alpha in the CSS standard, if I remember correctly |
| 22:58.41 | AJOSF | thseiler_: no problem |
| 22:59.11 | AJOSF | I got no clue about C++ (and I still hope, that I can avoid C++) |
| 23:01.52 | *** join/#openmoko peeps[work] (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com) |
| 23:02.19 | zedstar | luckily u dont need to know c++ to program native openmoko apps |
| 23:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko p0seid0n_ (n=poseidon@X4314.x.pppool.de) |
| 23:08.59 | ajbrun | i had a thought |
| 23:09.07 | ajbrun | we just got some wireless landline phones |
| 23:09.26 | ajbrun | is it possible to link a new1973 to a base station of these? |
| 23:09.31 | ajbrun | *neo1973 |
| 23:09.51 | ajbrun | no idea what frequency it uses or anything atm, but i guess that would help |
| 23:10.07 | SunX2 | Isn't that DECT? |
| 23:10.17 | ajbrun | possibly? |
| 23:10.32 | ajbrun | therefore, the phone would act as a mobile and a landline phone in one |
| 23:10.35 | *** join/#openmoko p0seid0n__ (n=poseidon@X4314.x.pppool.de) |
| 23:10.50 | SunX2 | Well, there might be something like a bluetooth to dect adapter. |
| 23:11.02 | SunX2 | But I doubt it's worth the trouble :D |
| 23:11.09 | ajbrun | so it would have to be plugged into something |
| 23:11.16 | ajbrun | meh - just a random thought i had |
| 23:12.09 | *** join/#openmoko ScarEye (n=scareye@12.27.87.66) |
| 23:12.30 | SpeedEvil | there is bluetooth-wirephone |
| 23:12.33 | SpeedEvil | and DECT-wirephone |
| 23:12.42 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@32.60.107.139) |
| 23:13.07 | ajbrun | http://www.amazon.co.uk/Single-Digital-Cordless-Telephone-Machine/dp/B000JBXIUE |
| 23:13.09 | ajbrun | it's one of those |
| 23:14.04 | thseiler_ | Stupid question: Is there any InputMethod Switcher planed for matchbox input system ? |
| 23:14.28 | thseiler_ | like: I want to switch between the matchbox-keyboard and some handwriting reckognizer |
| 23:14.44 | thseiler_ | simething like the hildon input subsystem ? |
| 23:16.44 | ajbrun | erm ignore that - i'm playing with xchat it seems |
| 23:16.58 | ajbrun | oh wait - you didn't see anything |
| 23:17.05 | ajbrun | ... |
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| 23:31.18 | UB-Gast096 | hey there i want to make some advertisment on my website for openmoko projekt! Are there some banners? |
| 23:32.41 | UB-Gast096 | what is about buying the phone without creditcard? |
| 23:33.25 | UB-Gast096 | ist there a possibility to get it without creditcard? |
| 23:34.12 | UB-Gast096 | hi? |
| 23:34.15 | dread | UB-Gast096: i don't think so, as it is an international order in most of the cases.. |
| 23:34.18 | UB-Gast096 | no answere? |
| 23:34.28 | UB-Gast096 | ok thy |
| 23:34.38 | SpeedEvil | where are you UB-Gast096 ? |
| 23:34.44 | UB-Gast096 | thats bad |
| 23:34.52 | UB-Gast096 | i am in germany in my livingroom^^ |
| 23:35.02 | UB-Gast096 | why? |
| 23:35.53 | SpeedEvil | Because in some countries, prepaid credit cards are easily available |
| 23:36.14 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 23:36.16 | SpeedEvil | you buy them with a certain amount of credit on them, and can use them like normal cards |
| 23:37.00 | UB-Gast096 | hmmm k thx for this information but i think in germany that is not possible |
| 23:37.19 | dread | yeah, i heard about some of those in germany, too. especially for students, there are "rechargeable" credit cards availabe :) |
| 23:38.01 | UB-Gast096 | nice ok i will take a look for these cards |
| 23:39.13 | UB-Gast096 | i really want that phone to play around |
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| 23:44.53 | UB-Gast096 | yeah i have found a prepaid card like this |
| 23:44.56 | inwoo | anyone have any experience trying to build open moko in a chroot'ed 64 bit linux install? |
| 23:45.23 | inwoo | qemu is giving me fits |
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