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| 00:53.26 | borg_ | is there something i have to look at when i put in a new sd card? |
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| 00:53.39 | borg_ | the neo didn't mount it and it isnt int /dev/ |
| 00:53.52 | borg_ | it is a SanDisk SDSDQ-4096-E11M |
| 00:54.05 | borg_ | this page says it is supported: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards |
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| 02:23.05 | hachi | I'm getting an error from make update saying that OE.mtn does not exist |
| 02:23.19 | hachi | however, it does exist and is a valid monotone repo as far as I can tell |
| 02:24.01 | hachi | oh, it's missing from openembedded |
| 02:24.09 | hachi | how can I populate this file? |
| 02:25.01 | hachi | and curiously, how did I lose it? |
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| 03:24.58 | sagacis | I don't know who's here to give a response, but I have a u-boot question... |
| 03:25.43 | sagacis | I flashed a new u-boot recently (and again tonight with the 1201 snapshot). The device no longer boots from the power button. It just sits there at the boot splash. |
| 03:26.01 | sagacis | If I boot from the u-boot menu, everything is OK. Any ideas? |
| 03:29.50 | balrog-kun | sagacis: there was a bug like this that was quite hard to fix and may have not been fixed yet, i'm not sure |
| 03:30.03 | balrog-kun | you'll find more info in bugzilla |
| 03:30.06 | balrog-kun | good night |
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| 03:31.04 | sagacis | Thanks! |
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| 05:56.13 | *** topic/#openmoko is The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (Maybe March as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Latest official update is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
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| 06:14.51 | mbuf | "ipkg install openssh" - cannot find package on the Neo; what needs to be added and where? |
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| 06:29.38 | hachi | so, I really don't want to blow away my moko makefile build that I've had till now, but I just can't get it to build anymore |
| 06:32.43 | SpeedEvil | hachi: error/ |
| 06:33.19 | hachi | it's trying to do an mtn update on openembedded, but there is no OE.mtn in that directory |
| 06:33.29 | hachi | nothings creating it, something deleted it |
| 06:33.35 | SpeedEvil | odd |
| 06:34.37 | SpeedEvil | that's not why mine doesn't build :( |
| 06:35.04 | hachi | I'm quite annoyed because it took like 3 days to build here, and now I've got to start over again |
| 06:35.16 | SpeedEvil | CPU? |
| 06:35.22 | hachi | dual P3 1GHz |
| 06:35.38 | SpeedEvil | probably around the same speed as mine. |
| 06:37.12 | rwhitby | hachi: OE.mtn should be in the top-level dir |
| 06:37.17 | rwhitby | not in the openembedded dir |
| 06:37.56 | hachi | well, the makefile is calling cd openembedded && mtn something on me |
| 06:37.59 | hachi | or was |
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| 06:46.01 | mmontour | hachi: the openembedded/_MTN/options file should have the path to your OE.mtn database |
| 06:48.34 | hachi | ERROR: Unable to open conf/bitbake.conf |
| 06:48.45 | hachi | now I can't even build from scratch? |
| 06:48.48 | hachi | ls |
| 06:49.35 | CM | ~blame aging dual p3 computer |
| 06:49.38 | chesty | ACTION blames aging dual p3 computer (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 06:49.38 | CM | ;) |
| 06:49.54 | hachi | I just switched to a different computer |
| 06:50.19 | CM | I agree that bitbake and monotone is a bit difficult though |
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| 07:03.11 | CM | ~curse epdf and mickey :P |
| 07:03.12 | chesty | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, epdf and mickey :P ! |
| 07:04.04 | mbuf | "ipkg install openssh" - cannot find package on the Neo; what needs to be added and where? |
| 07:04.17 | CM | is it scp:ed there? |
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| 07:04.27 | CM | the .ipk I men |
| 07:04.28 | CM | mean |
| 07:04.33 | mbuf | CM, no from the Neo |
| 07:04.46 | mbuf | CM, trying this, http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/nslu2-linux/replacing-dropbear-with-openssh.html |
| 07:04.47 | CM | Yes, I mean is the file on your Neo? |
| 07:04.57 | mbuf | CM, no, can it take it from the Internet? |
| 07:05.02 | CM | Yes |
| 07:05.08 | CM | Or add a feed that includes it |
| 07:05.16 | CM | I guess the ångström feed do |
| 07:05.24 | mbuf | CM, ping yahoo.com from the Neo works; |
| 07:05.34 | mbuf | CM, where and what feed to be added? |
| 07:05.49 | CM | Hmm.. Seems like the openmoko wiki is down again |
| 07:06.06 | emdete | mbuf: try /etc/ipkg |
| 07:06.18 | mbuf | emdete, thanks |
| 07:06.27 | CM | mbuf: Yes, add http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/ to the conf file in /etc/ipkg |
| 07:06.59 | CM | call it base <long url here> or something like that, just as the other lines in the config |
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| 07:08.13 | emdete | mbuf: but dont choose the same name ;) |
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| 07:08.49 | mbuf | emdete, can you list how the entry should be in /etc/ipkg? |
| 07:08.50 | cosmin | anyone tried pppd for a network connection to an emulated neo? |
| 07:08.52 | rwhitby | hachi: OE is not position independent. if the top-level path of your moko work area has changed, then you are stuffed. |
| 07:09.10 | CM | cosmin: Yes, tuukkah wrote about it in the iki I think |
| 07:09.12 | CM | wiki |
| 07:09.43 | CM | But the wiki seems to be a bit messed up right now, just look at the mainpage.. |
| 07:09.49 | emdete | mbuf: src/gz newname http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/ |
| 07:09.57 | mbuf | emdete, thanks |
| 07:10.01 | cosmin | CM, I read the wiki article, and I followed the instructions, but there's something that doesn't work |
| 07:10.16 | CM | tuukkah: You here to help him out? :) |
| 07:10.50 | emdete | cosmin: i wrote a bit of that wiki.. what's with it? |
| 07:11.28 | cosmin | emdete, i tried a network connetcion with pppd, and I get some "Received bad configure-rej" messages |
| 07:12.01 | cosmin | i can ping the emulated neo, but i can't ssh into it |
| 07:12.48 | emdete | cosmin: oh, i did not read your sentence fully... sry. i thought gprs. |
| 07:12.48 | techindian | Hi all, i am getting the following error with OM gcc.. |
| 07:12.50 | techindian | | /tmp/ccX7NbU0.s: Assembler messages: |
| 07:12.50 | techindian | | /tmp/ccX7NbU0.s:341: Error: selected processor does not support `clz lr,r0' |
| 07:12.50 | techindian | | /tmp/ccX7NbU0.s:510: rdhi, rdlo and rm must all be different |
| 07:12.55 | techindian | any reasons? |
| 07:13.35 | emdete | look at your options. maybe some compression or the like are disabled on one end. does it tell /which/ cfg was rejected? |
| 07:14.46 | SpeedEvil | techindian: where did you get your incliude files dfrom? |
| 07:15.02 | techindian | fresh build.. |
| 07:15.10 | techindian | I built it myself.. |
| 07:15.14 | SpeedEvil | you can't build include files |
| 07:15.26 | techindian | which include files.. |
| 07:15.29 | SpeedEvil | where did you get the linux include files from? |
| 07:15.56 | SpeedEvil | if you copied them from a desktop system, you can get messages similar to that |
| 07:16.02 | techindian | build with the latest version of moko |
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| 07:16.14 | techindian | using MokoMakefile.. |
| 07:16.15 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 07:16.28 | SpeedEvil | is this deep into the build? |
| 07:16.40 | techindian | problem is not with kernel.. |
| 07:16.55 | techindian | when I try to compile clutter present in OE |
| 07:17.08 | SpeedEvil | "/ |
| 07:17.25 | mbuf | emdete, in /etc/ipkg/ipkg.conf, i have added "src/gz openssh_support http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/" ; i should do "ipkg update"? |
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| 07:18.33 | SpeedEvil | mbuf: I did |
| 07:18.38 | SpeedEvil | sorked for me. |
| 07:18.42 | mbuf | SpeedEvil, ok |
| 07:19.45 | cosmin | emdete, do you know how to make sure compression is enabled on both ends? i only passed the options mentioned in the wiki |
| 07:19.53 | emdete | mbuf: shure |
| 07:20.10 | SpeedEvil | compression on what? |
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| 07:20.17 | SpeedEvil | it's not supported on GPRS |
| 07:20.32 | SpeedEvil | And there is nothing you can do about that unfortunately. |
| 07:20.32 | emdete | cosmin: problem may be that pppd grabs options from files like /etc/ppp/option.<devicename> or something |
| 07:20.48 | SpeedEvil | Well - compressing tunnels of course |
| 07:20.50 | emdete | SpeedEvil: he means on pppd proably... |
| 07:21.22 | SpeedEvil | yes - howver, no (?) service providers let you setup compression. |
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| 07:24.40 | emdete | yes. i know. and in the beginning they had a lot of problems if a pppd asks for it :) |
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| 07:30.27 | techindian | SpeedEvil: clutter has used the arm 5 assembler instructions and hence the error. |
| 07:30.34 | SpeedEvil | I see |
| 07:30.44 | techindian | SpeedEvil: thanks. |
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| 07:34.27 | mbuf | ipkg_download: ERRROR: Command failed with return value 1: `wget --passive-ftp -q -P /tmp/ipkg-GrPBHg http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/ipk/neo1973/Packages.gz' |
| 07:34.32 | mbuf | when doing "ipkg update" |
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| 07:37.09 | SpeedEvil | Can I nuke ~/.ccache ? |
| 07:37.12 | mbuf | anyways, installing openssh |
| 07:37.31 | SpeedEvil | I wasn't expecting it to use significant amounts of space on home |
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| 07:43.31 | hachi | whoooops! I've been building openmoko on my PVR for the last 20 minutes now |
| 07:43.41 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 07:44.10 | SpeedEvil | I accidentally started a build on my neo |
| 07:44.17 | SpeedEvil | that diddn't get far |
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| 08:26.11 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:26.19 | NineX | ave |
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| 09:14.57 | tuukkah | cosmin, you still there? |
| 09:15.21 | cosmin | tuukkah, yes |
| 09:15.58 | tuukkah | if you can ping but not ssh, sounds like the connection is bad |
| 09:16.41 | cosmin | there are some "Received bad configure-rej: 12 06 00 00 00 00" messages in the console |
| 09:17.16 | tuukkah | are these before the lines that say you got a local and remote ip address? |
| 09:18.06 | cosmin | one before, and many after |
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| 09:18.46 | cosmin | oops, i just noticed, right before printing the ip addresses, it says "Cannot determine ethernet address for proxy ARP" |
| 09:19.01 | tuukkah | that's not important, i think |
| 09:19.23 | tuukkah | did you give two -serial options to qemu? |
| 09:19.53 | cosmin | yes, vc and pty |
| 09:21.02 | tuukkah | could it be that you have some gps software interfering, as in the real neo, ttySAC1 is for the gps |
| 09:21.10 | cosmin | here's the output (until i killed it) http://pastebin.com/m3ff804e8 |
| 09:23.07 | cosmin | i don't have any gps software |
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| 09:24.39 | tuukkah | pppd versions might be good to know. maybe "bad configure-rej" means they don't speak the same ppp protocol version |
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| 09:31.35 | tuukkah | cosmin, perhaps you just need to add "nomppe" to the pppd command line |
| 09:33.29 | cosmin | tuukkah, i have pppd 2.4.4 on the host and 2.4.3 on qemu-neo |
| 09:34.12 | cosmin | should i add nomppe to both the host and the neo? |
| 09:34.24 | CIA-14 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3684 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 4 dirs): gsmd: set and get Voicemail number (Erin Yueh) |
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| 09:36.12 | tuukkah | cosmin, host should be enough |
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| 09:38.37 | cosmin | tuukkah, it worked |
| 09:38.49 | cosmin | thank you! :-) |
| 09:39.05 | tuukkah | good to hear, no problem :-) |
| 09:44.33 | tuukkah | me too |
| 09:45.48 | emdete | and me, and mee :D |
| 09:46.02 | cosmin | was this because my kernel could have been configured to use MPPE, and neo doesn't support it? |
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| 09:48.59 | tuukkah | cosmin, you can grep mppe -r /etc/ppp |
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| 09:51.43 | tuukkah | for me, that shows lines from a pptp vpn configuration file |
| 09:51.54 | tuukkah | but nothing else |
| 09:52.57 | cosmin | mine doesn't show anything |
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| 09:53.22 | cosmin | just an error about not finding /etc/ppp/resolv.conf |
| 09:53.34 | cosmin | i guess there's a broken link |
| 09:56.46 | tuukkah | then i have no idea where it picks the idea of insisting on using mppe :-( |
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| 10:03.14 | CIA-14 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3686 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/s3c_mci.patch: s3c_mci: major codingstyle cleanup (based on checkpatch.pl) |
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| 10:09.18 | CIA-14 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3687 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/s3c_mci.patch: documentation update on driver status |
| 10:15.39 | hachi | my gosh... monotone is so slow over nfs |
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| 10:18.10 | florian | hachi: monotone is always slow |
| 10:18.47 | hachi | it just kinda sucks to need to have a raid-backed SMP machine to build openmoko :\ |
| 10:20.40 | CM | hachi: It's only the first build that's tough |
| 10:20.57 | CM | I've been building it at home since june or so |
| 10:21.07 | hachi | no, because monotone is always slow |
| 10:21.22 | hachi | I let it run for like 15 minutes and it still didn't finish doing the 'heads' command or whatever |
| 10:21.30 | CM | Heh, yeah, monotone is awfully slow |
| 10:21.49 | CM | 15 minutes sounds long though, maybe 1 or 2 is normal |
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| 10:23.26 | CM | sameo: Just curious, and news on the wireless driver? Working ok? :) |
| 10:23.34 | CM | s/and/any/ |
| 10:23.52 | hachi | cute bot |
| 10:23.53 | sameo | CM: it is working, yes. |
| 10:24.11 | CM | apt_: botsnack |
| 10:24.16 | sameo | CM: I'm currently working on getting rid of Atheros SDIO stack and use the mainline kernel one.. |
| 10:24.29 | CM | Ah, ok. Cool |
| 10:24.42 | CM | Just hope the gta02 hw is ready soon.. |
| 10:25.21 | sameo | CM: let's hope so, yes. |
| 10:25.56 | CM | the engineers in .tw was happy with the latest version at least, but I guess they haven't had any time to test yet |
| 10:26.04 | hachi | does the rss reader work for anyone? |
| 10:26.22 | hachi | I gave it a shot today, but it didn't seem to do anything... didn't see any dns requests or traffic from it |
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| 10:39.00 | hachi | hah, 4-way machine, load avg pegged up to 11... that's building openmoko at a pretty good clip now |
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| 10:47.47 | hachi | NOTE: fetch http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/perl-5.8.8.tar.gz |
| 10:48.04 | hachi | I'm getting a transfer rate of about.... 0.0 trying to download that |
| 10:48.13 | josch | oh noes!! no perl for you!! |
| 10:48.32 | hachi | perl 5.10 was released this morning too |
| 10:49.01 | josch | j0 but not much changed |
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| 10:49.56 | zilux | bitbake -c clean dotconf; bitbake dotconf |
| 10:50.03 | zilux | sorry |
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| 11:00.03 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3688 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (3 files in 3 dirs): |
| 11:00.03 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c: (moko_finger_scroll_refresh), |
| 11:00.03 | CIA-15 | openmoko: (moko_finger_scroll_dispose): |
| 11:00.03 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Change scrollbar calculation code, as shown in bug #1073 (thanks to |
| 11:00.05 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Renato Filho), make sure to remove *all* source functions on dispose |
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| 11:28.25 | torpor | anyone know how gprs works right now? i'm giving it another whirl .. |
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| 12:26.54 | _diego__ | hachi, rss feeader worked for me the last time i tried it (about 2 weeks ago) |
| 12:29.24 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3689 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 12:29.24 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 12:29.24 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Add AC_GNU_SOURCE for basename(), add libnotify |
| 12:29.24 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/Makefile.am: |
| 12:29.24 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Add libnotify |
| 12:29.26 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/dialer-main.c: (main): |
| 12:29.28 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Initialise libnotify |
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| 12:52.51 | NineX | damn epdf compilation fails |
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| 12:53.34 | CM | NineX: It has for over a week |
| 12:53.48 | CM | See bug 3467 in openembedded bugzilla |
| 12:53.51 | NineX | CM: any workaround ? |
| 12:53.58 | CM | Not that I've found yet |
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| 12:54.12 | CM | It's the dependency on poppler that isn't correct |
| 12:56.36 | cjb_ie | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6280428662.html Major Chinese handset vendor adopts Linux for 3G phones (qtopia) |
| 12:56.39 | SpeedEvil | Is there a generic solution to 'package x doesn't build' - if you don't want the package? |
| 12:57.24 | CM | cjb_ie: Yeah, nice isn't it? :) |
| 12:57.46 | xcasex | CM: in the console right now, which handset vendor? |
| 12:58.04 | CM | xcasex: Some big chinsese one |
| 12:58.23 | CM | Zhongxing Telecommunication Equipment |
| 12:58.50 | CM | Never heard of, but: In 2006, it boasted nearly 40,000 employees, and annual revenues of about $3.12 billion |
| 12:58.53 | xcasex | CM: aha. zte. they were in computer sweden today, big contender to ericsson on our soil ;) |
| 12:59.00 | CM | Aha.. heh |
| 12:59.22 | xcasex | apparently their vdsl tech is lightyears ahead of anything ericsson has. |
| 13:00.58 | Stephmw | Aye, ZTE is a familiar name |
| 13:02.22 | SpeedEvil | Does qtopia do fully locked down phones? |
| 13:02.26 | SpeedEvil | s/do/allow/ |
| 13:02.30 | CM | SpeedEvil: Yes |
| 13:02.51 | emdete | SpeedEvil: what's an 'fully locked down phones'? |
| 13:03.25 | SpeedEvil | A phone in which you can install no software without the permission of the network operator |
| 13:03.28 | CM | Congratulated ljp on the deal earlier, and he said it would probably be quite locked down |
| 13:03.53 | SpeedEvil | or basically do nothing without the permission of the operator. Including not being able to change wallpaper without charging a fee, for example. |
| 13:03.55 | emdete | SpeedEvil: like the motorola? |
| 13:04.03 | SpeedEvil | like most phones at the moment. |
| 13:04.51 | SpeedEvil | Then there are semi-open phones, where you can install software written in java or somethign. |
| 13:05.05 | SpeedEvil | but not do certain things perhaps. |
| 13:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@tangency.co.uk) |
| 13:05.44 | emdete | yes, there are lots of steps of openess... even between neo and the greenphone is a big step |
| 13:05.56 | emdete | ...or qtopia / openmoko |
| 13:05.58 | CM | 09:02 <CM> And of course it should mean more phones that boot a linux kernel.. ;) |
| 13:06.01 | CM | 09:02 <ljp> true. but they probably wont be easily flashable/hackable |
| 13:06.04 | CM | 09:03 <CM> No, probably not. But still |
| 13:06.06 | CM | 09:03 <ljp> one step at a time |
| 13:06.12 | SpeedEvil | then you've got fully open - all the hardware is fully documented - even including the cell-phone radio |
| 13:06.22 | *** join/#openmoko pigeon (n=pigeon@60-241-137-179.static.tpgi.com.au) |
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| 13:06.31 | SpeedEvil | which is unlikely to be available in many countries. |
| 13:06.44 | hrw | SpeedEvil: phone which can install software written in java is not open |
| 13:06.52 | SpeedEvil | hrw: debatably. |
| 13:07.13 | hrw | SpeedEvil: my k750i allows to install j2me stuff but I would not call it open |
| 13:07.14 | SpeedEvil | hrw: if it can install software of arbitrary functionality, I'm happy to call it pretty open. |
| 13:07.48 | SpeedEvil | If the java can use the camera, make calls, overlay parts of the UI, and it's all documented as to how, |
| 13:08.07 | hrw | SpeedEvil: if I cant change firmware which I got with phone (using normal tools not binary editor) then it is not open |
| 13:08.31 | teprrr | it depends how you define open :P |
| 13:08.41 | SpeedEvil | In many countries it's not legal to sell a phone that's that open. |
| 13:08.43 | teprrr | s/depends/depends on/ |
| 13:08.59 | SpeedEvil | At least in the UK - it's legal to sell until the first person abuses it. |
| 13:09.01 | teprrr | SpeedEvil, in which countries thats illegal? |
| 13:09.23 | SpeedEvil | At which point you have to fix it, or you come under the 'cellphone hacking tools' legislation. |
| 13:09.25 | teprrr | afaik it's not illegal as far as you cannot directly touch the gsm chip |
| 13:09.29 | teprrr | nor gps chip |
| 13:09.44 | teprrr | ah, :P |
| 13:09.56 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - but that's less than 'fully open' by hrw's definition. |
| 13:10.45 | SpeedEvil | It's a useful and would be a nice goal in many ways, but it causes problems for things with radios. |
| 13:10.46 | xcasex | SpeedEvil: i'm on the "let's do this slow so people get used to it" movement of hw freedom. |
| 13:11.25 | xcasex | doing it all out diretly will only attract the "omg terrar" populists |
| 13:11.31 | xcasex | *directly |
| 13:12.11 | SpeedEvil | There are unfortuantely good reasons why it can't really be possible for devices which have to cooperate. |
| 13:12.23 | SpeedEvil | There is only one radio spectrum. |
| 13:12.25 | SpeedEvil | It's shared. |
| 13:12.37 | SpeedEvil | You achieve personal benefit by using more than your share. |
| 13:13.08 | SpeedEvil | Cellphones currently only work well as the towers organise them so as they don't interfere with each other. |
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| 13:14.11 | buz | it's called tragedy of the commons, generally |
| 13:14.18 | SpeedEvil | Consider a yeah |
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| 13:14.32 | SpeedEvil | s/Consider a y/Y/ |
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| 13:28.06 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 13:30.45 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3690 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410-nand.patch: cosmetic cleanup |
| 13:32.13 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3691 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410-nand.patch: remove unused cmdfunc |
| 13:39.18 | CM | Ah, updates to u-boot is always nice. Hope it's buildable in om soon too.. |
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| 13:41.19 | XorA|gone | crap reminds me, must merge LaF0rge patch for uboot |
| 13:41.33 | CM | :) |
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| 13:44.24 | XorA|gone | hmm, except the patch bears no resemblence to the oe repo, time for mtn annotate |
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| 14:00.08 | zash | is there any way to make a laptop with wifi pretend its a accesspoint? |
| 14:00.37 | jeddy3 | zash, yes |
| 14:00.40 | mjr | depends on the chip and the driver (no, don't know lists) |
| 14:00.58 | jeddy3 | zash, yes what mjr said also |
| 14:01.28 | zash | more on topic: share grps-connection from the neo? |
| 14:02.04 | jeddy3 | zash, it also requires a fair bit of configuring...there is a firewall called firestarter that can do it for you |
| 14:02.31 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@s55917044.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 14:03.55 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 14:04.22 | zecke | Gismo_C_: hey, do you happen to be online? |
| 14:05.45 | CM | zecke: mickey_away said before that bugzilla or mail was probably an easier way to get his attention. |
| 14:05.53 | CM | All at the same time is probably best.. ;) |
| 14:06.08 | zecke | CM: I know :) |
| 14:06.16 | zecke | CM: but I'm lazy |
| 14:06.33 | CM | Hehe, it's soon christmas so everyone is lazy here.. |
| 14:06.53 | *** join/#openmoko ar0x (i=al@195.214.247.13) |
| 14:07.09 | CM | zecke: Btw, was someone here earlier wondering about the feed-reader, couldn't get it to work. |
| 14:07.17 | CM | Not sure if any bug was filed.. |
| 14:07.37 | zecke | CM: I didn't get any report |
| 14:08.27 | CM | Ok |
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| 14:15.01 | *** part/#openmoko enjahova (n=enjahova@c-68-35-225-183.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:16.06 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3692 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (4 files): separate NAND controller and boot-from-nand patches, merge 'led' patch into boot-from-nand patch. |
| 14:16.19 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qdf93.q.pppool.de) |
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| 14:17.04 | raster | mooo |
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| 14:17.39 | CM | ~emulate cow |
| 14:17.41 | *** join/#openmoko olv--_ (n=olvaffe@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 14:17.47 | CM | apt_: You suck |
| 14:18.49 | zash | apt_: rape itself |
| 14:18.58 | zash | ~rape itself |
| 14:18.59 | chesty | ACTION takes itself behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams |
| 14:19.37 | raster | hehehe |
| 14:23.36 | *** part/#openmoko Tek_Grmln (n=bob@p578b65c0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:23.56 | CM | ~tank zash |
| 14:24.01 | CM | bah.. |
| 14:24.14 | CM | ~thank zash |
| 14:24.14 | chesty | de rien, CM |
| 14:24.28 | CM | de rien? |
| 14:24.52 | gi-el | CM: that's french |
| 14:25.02 | gi-el | more or less meaning "you're welcome" |
| 14:25.10 | merire | De rien = You're welcome. |
| 14:25.13 | gi-el | actually more like "no problem" |
| 14:25.15 | merire | (Yeah, I'm french.) |
| 14:25.15 | CM | Ah, ok. Thanks :) |
| 14:25.16 | gi-el | "it was nothing" |
| 14:25.31 | gi-el | merire: i'm not :) |
| 14:25.56 | gi-el | in spanish it's "de nada" |
| 14:26.04 | merire | Everyone can't be perfect :p |
| 14:26.11 | CM | merire: lol |
| 14:26.12 | merire | (jk) |
| 14:26.49 | merire | CM, if you give me a neo1973 I can send you some wine ! |
| 14:27.08 | CM | Hehe, I do have a Neo here, working nicely :) |
| 14:27.25 | merire | blah, I'm sooo jealous |
| 14:27.40 | merire | can't wait for march ! |
| 14:27.41 | gi-el | botox? |
| 14:28.22 | CM | bento is some cheap noodle lunch in the philippines :) |
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| 15:13.21 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 15:13.32 | CM | the epdf poppler thing |
| 15:14.23 | CM | breaks the feed for openmoko |
| 15:15.11 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 15:15.42 | CM | :-/ |
| 15:15.54 | SpeedEvil | Though I've been trying other stuff. |
| 15:19.30 | mwester | SpeedEvil: build the uboot-mkimage, and restart the build of the openmoko image. |
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| 15:29.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3693 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c): |
| 15:29.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (moko_sms_dispose), |
| 15:29.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: (stop_notify_timeout), (update_notification), (moko_sms_init): |
| 15:29.54 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Add tone/vibration notification |
| 15:42.16 | *** join/#openmoko hexa (n=hexa@69.90.176.100) |
| 15:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@81.80-202-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:44.06 | *** join/#openmoko pwncity (n=cybe@0x50a42e25.rdnxx1.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 15:45.48 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3694 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c): |
| 15:45.48 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/phone-kit/moko-sms.c: (note_added_cb), (note_modified_cb): |
| 15:45.48 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Don't notify on sent messages |
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| 15:54.25 | pwncity | moko isn't working very nice: http://kortlink.dk/4mdt |
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| 15:59.22 | peepsalot | compiz-fusion |
| 15:59.38 | peepsalot | bleh, misfire |
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| 16:14.40 | PBeck | hi |
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| 16:23.57 | emdete | hi |
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| 17:12.01 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03chris * r3695 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-pim-journal.c): |
| 17:12.01 | CIA-15 | openmoko: * src/today-pim-journal.c: (today_pim_journal_box_new): |
| 17:12.01 | CIA-15 | openmoko: Attach the messages app launcher to the correct box |
| 17:17.05 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl) |
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| 17:23.42 | bkruse | cia died :[ |
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| 18:21.05 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3696 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/lis302dl.patch: move kconfig and makefile hunks to correct location |
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| 18:38.42 | kamathln | hi.. i want to install openmoko on my a780 or try it out on qemu |
| 18:38.54 | kamathln | which is the most straight forward way ? |
| 18:39.21 | kamathln | i tried browsing through openmoko.org and wiki.openmoko.org but found the website confusing |
| 18:39.46 | kamathln | well at least for me , i could not find what i want so easily |
| 18:39.57 | kamathln | or was i dumb and missed outsomething ? |
| 18:43.05 | kinneh | google -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
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| 18:46.55 | kamathln | doh |
| 18:46.56 | kamathln | sorry |
| 18:47.07 | kamathln | got the right keywords to use in find |
| 18:47.14 | kamathln | "prebuilt" |
| 18:47.21 | kamathln | got me to what i want |
| 18:47.47 | kamathln | kinneh .. |
| 18:47.47 | kamathln | thx |
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| 18:54.28 | kamathln | i m a newbie in kernel module development. but i want to write a usb keyboard/mouse emulation for openmoko (my openmoko pwered device should act as a keyboard when plugged into my pc) i knwo it is possible .. but can anybody please point me where to start ? |
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| 19:04.25 | pH5 | kamathln: you'd need to code a HID usb gadget driver that can be fed with events via uinput. no idea if something like this already exists. |
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| 19:08.35 | kinneh | kamathln: np |
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| 19:18.35 | kamathln | pH5: u mean /dev/uinput ? |
| 19:18.51 | kamathln | thats what i get when i write a usb gadget driver ? |
| 19:19.01 | kamathln | how do i change the usb profile ? |
| 19:19.21 | balrog-kun | kamathln: check the gadget zero driver in the sources, it's an example for writing gadget drivers |
| 19:19.26 | balrog-kun | g_zero |
| 19:19.29 | kamathln | k |
| 19:21.34 | kamathln | cool |
| 19:21.43 | kamathln | thx balrog_kun |
| 19:21.50 | kamathln | that was a nice head start |
| 19:22.36 | kamathln | btw , how did u like my idea ? |
| 19:22.47 | kamathln | does anybody feel it is usefull ? |
| 19:23.12 | balrog-kun | kamathln: btw., someone on the usb-devel ML had the same idea once if i remember well, you might want to check the archives and contact them |
| 19:23.19 | balrog-kun | afaik they didn't release any code |
| 19:23.26 | kamathln | kk |
| 19:23.34 | kamathln | thx 4 notice will check |
| 19:23.35 | balrog-kun | kamathln: btw. qemu has code for USB mouse/tablet/keyboard emulation |
| 19:23.59 | kamathln | oh! |
| 19:24.12 | kamathln | i guess that is something i need |
| 19:24.16 | kamathln | thk u very much |
| 19:24.49 | balrog-kun | it obviously won't work as a kernel driver directly but with some adaptation or a simple compatibilty layer it might work quite well |
| 19:26.00 | kamathln | balrog-kun: which one ? |
| 19:26.10 | kamathln | the usb code in qemu ? |
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| 19:26.26 | balrog-kun | kamathln: yeah |
| 19:26.52 | balrog-kun | see hw/usb-hid.c |
| 19:27.19 | kamathln | balrog-kun: thats the host side right ? sure will have a look |
| 19:27.51 | balrog-kun | nope, it's the emulation of a slave HID |
| 19:28.38 | kamathln | oh! |
| 19:29.00 | kamathln | balrog-kun: thx for pointing that out.. i must be carefull not to assume too much |
| 19:29.19 | balrog-kun | there's also hw/usb-wacom.c, a virtual wacom tablet |
| 19:29.40 | kamathln | cool! |
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| 19:40.14 | *** join/#openmoko anf (i=anilnf@61.2.193.59) |
| 19:42.34 | anf | Can i ask you something : Shall i get my neo1973 gta01 upgraded with wifi like that of gta02 ? |
| 19:43.04 | cjb_ie | how do you mean upgraded? |
| 19:43.27 | anf | Can i get the the hardware upgraded .. |
| 19:43.39 | anf | like an additional chip or something .. |
| 19:43.53 | CM | No |
| 19:44.11 | new_bie | I don't think so its possible CPU ore of gta02 is s3c2442 |
| 19:44.24 | CM | Not unless you do some pretty complicated soldering and such |
| 19:44.35 | cjb_ie | CM: and even then there's nowhere to solder to... |
| 19:44.47 | CM | cjb_ie: I think someone here said there was a way |
| 19:45.01 | anf | ok .then how could I connect WiFi or Camera to my phone .. |
| 19:45.03 | CM | To use some internal pads or something |
| 19:45.14 | cjb_ie | CM: someone was talking about taking a usb wifi dongle apart and fitting it into spare space behind the battery |
| 19:45.25 | CM | anf: With a battery powered usb hup you can do that |
| 19:45.34 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 19:45.40 | CM | The Neo can be an usb host, but it's unpowered |
| 19:46.06 | CM | cjb_ie: Yeah. Not worth the trouble in my opinion.. ;) |
| 19:46.17 | cjb_ie | some people will go to a lot of trouble for stuff |
| 19:46.32 | anf | Ca Neo be master ..while connected to usb .. |
| 19:46.36 | CM | Heh, yeah, I'm trying to compile open moko every day.. ;) |
| 19:46.41 | anf | Or is it juzt a slave |
| 19:46.51 | CM | anf: It can be either |
| 19:47.00 | anf | oh k |
| 19:47.27 | anf | Ah about compiling ..I haven't tried yet .. |
| 19:47.42 | anf | How much time do you take for doing that .. |
| 19:48.00 | CM | anf: The first time is a pain |
| 19:48.10 | CM | Since it builds the full cross compile toolchain |
| 19:48.21 | CM | Took around 10-11 hours on my comp |
| 19:48.44 | CM | But after that it usually just takes a few minutes to update everything each day |
| 19:49.04 | anf | I had trouble in downloading the whole source from buildhost .. |
| 19:49.13 | anf | Is there a specific list .. |
| 19:49.23 | CM | what do you mean list? |
| 19:49.34 | anf | After all mine is a dialup connection.. |
| 19:49.40 | CM | Ouch.. |
| 19:49.46 | anf | I mean source files and packages .. |
| 19:49.52 | CM | Then I would probably not build so much |
| 19:50.26 | CM | If you mean sources for the bitbake recipies, they're fetched from all around |
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| 19:50.50 | anf | o k |
| 19:52.01 | anf | Do anybody have idea ..wat the next summer of code will do for openmoko .. |
| 19:52.12 | new_bie | Error in compiling u-boot http://pastebin.ca/581043 |
| 19:52.20 | anf | What all projects could catch attention and all .. |
| 19:52.23 | bkruse | CM: I will come over and help |
| 19:53.39 | anf | Do anybody have idea ..wat the next summer of code will do for openmoko .. |
| 19:53.41 | anf | What all projects could catch attention and all .. |
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| 19:55.46 | new_bie | Error in compiling u-boot http://pastebin.ca/581043 has anybody seen this error b4 ? |
| 19:57.32 | CM | bkruse: Hehe, I wish! :P |
| 20:00.01 | bkruse | I am thinking of, after I am done with mokoiax, implementing iax into gaim (well, pidgin) |
| 20:01.24 | balrog-kun | new_bie: yes, there was some discussion about this earlier |
| 20:01.40 | balrog-kun | new_bie: there's a patch for it in OE i think, but the patch is a hack |
| 20:04.26 | new_bie | thax balrog-kun |
| 20:04.36 | new_bie | i will search it |
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| 20:07.40 | balrog-kun | new_bie: the filename was uboot-eabi-fix-HACK.patch btw. |
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| 20:10.13 | ahven | somekind of network activity signal would be cool |
| 20:10.21 | ahven | for bluetooth/gprs/wifi |
| 20:10.41 | ahven | currently I have to look at the intencity of the bluetooth dongle :) |
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| 20:56.02 | flexd_ | YARR |
| 21:08.07 | zash | ahven: get one of those things that flash on gsm-activity |
| 21:08.23 | *** join/#openmoko ifeel (n=ifeel@151.70.140.137) |
| 21:08.38 | ahven | zash: was more thinking of software solution |
| 21:09.16 | ahven | like something starts to move, when the page in the internet browser is (re)loading etc |
| 21:09.26 | ahven | was the click successful or not :) |
| 21:11.28 | balrog-kun | you clicked, you may need to reboot for this to take effect |
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| 21:44.52 | TimRiker | has anyone tried getting android running on the neo? would be fun to play with the webkit browser at least. (I know that might be heresy, but asking anyway) |
| 21:45.40 | balrog-kun | yes, someone has |
| 21:46.06 | mudyc | is there code available for it except the sdk? |
| 21:46.07 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953AF90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:46.32 | balrog-kun | mudyc: no, that's the point |
| 21:48.12 | TimRiker | balrog-kun: and? did it work? is it available someplace? does it still keep all the normal linux services, which normal android boxen don't? |
| 21:48.25 | TimRiker | mudyc: the sdk is arm native binaries. |
| 21:48.55 | balrog-kun | TimRiker: http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/21/android-neo1973 |
| 21:48.55 | TimRiker | the "emulator" is more or less qemu with a linux kernel etc. |
| 21:49.30 | *** join/#openmoko _ts (n=pinhead@stdin.stderror.at) |
| 21:49.31 | TimRiker | balrog-kun: thx! reading. |
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| 21:57.14 | TimRiker | balrog-kun: nice writeup. to bad for the outcome though. |
| 21:58.52 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 21:58.53 | balrog-kun | that's what you get with closed-source non-colaborative projects :) |
| 22:02.12 | univac | :) |
| 22:02.17 | mudyc | balrog-kun: otherway around would be to reimplement android api over sun's cldc wm for instance |
| 22:02.40 | mudyc | but that's a lot of work |
| 22:03.17 | balrog-kun | mudyc: it would probably be slower and wouldn't really count as running Android for many people :p |
| 22:04.25 | mudyc | ...also the api is very well documented ;-) |
| 22:07.01 | balrog-kun | i heard it's not so different from the original sun api |
| 22:08.01 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-81-80.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
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| 22:09.19 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 22:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko MookiE_ (n=kim@p5B07E8B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:09.44 | mudyc | half of the package namespace are anroid specific. then there are some basic java packages and apache packages |
| 22:10.31 | MookiE_ | hello, I had a problem with dual booting OpenMoko/Qtopia. Everytime I try to start "Boot from SD" this comes: http://www.privatepaste.com/df0d81tKNX |
| 22:10.42 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.229) |
| 22:11.16 | Stephmw | balrog-kun: could you link an anchor to the conclusion in your first paragraph? |
| 22:11.19 | Stephmw | balrog-kun: :) |
| 22:12.25 | Stephmw | balrog-kun: also s/1937/1973/g |
| 22:12.31 | balrog-kun | Stephmw: oh, that's not my text |
| 22:12.40 | balrog-kun | i just found it educative |
| 22:12.42 | Stephmw | balrog-kun: oh, sorry, thought it was |
| 22:13.13 | Stephmw | yeah, I made the same conclusions just digging into the Android emulator/politics when it was released |
| 22:13.36 | MookiE_ | ??? can nobody help me? |
| 22:15.37 | MookiE_ | i have this failure: |
| 22:15.37 | MookiE_ | bad MBR sector signature 0x0000 |
| 22:15.37 | MookiE_ | ** Bad Partition 1 ** |
| 22:15.37 | MookiE_ | ## Booting image at 32000000 ... |
| 22:15.37 | MookiE_ | Bad Magic Number |
| 22:16.20 | El_Salvador | http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=ky-gbF1rgb4 |
| 22:16.22 | El_Salvador | lol |
| 22:17.13 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jaebird@unaffiliated/jaebird) |
| 22:17.41 | CM | hehe |
| 22:17.49 | CM | balrog-kun: Did you se the recent ars coverage? |
| 22:18.18 | CM | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071219-google-android-plagued-by-dysfunctional-development-process.html |
| 22:18.29 | balrog-kun | there were so many bugs fixed since then, most current stuff doesn't even boot in qemu 0.8.2 due to some bugs in the core arm emulation, i can only imagine the number of days they spent working around the qemu bugs in their kernel |
| 22:18.45 | CM | *nod* |
| 22:18.50 | balrog-kun | (all of which have been fixed upstream long ago) |
| 22:18.57 | balrog-kun | CM: thanks for the link, will look in a moment |
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| 22:22.44 | Stephmw | CM: good link |
| 22:23.28 | *** part/#openmoko MookiE_ (n=kim@p5B07E8B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:24.13 | CM | Stephmw: I really like ars technica's articles |
| 22:24.46 | CM | And Ryan Paul is unbelievely productive when it comes to writing articles.. |
| 22:26.34 | *** join/#openmoko new_bie (n=pradeep@221.135.143.250) |
| 22:30.26 | CM | balrog-kun: Maybe he's seeing the immense stack of cash Google has and how long they can keep pushing Android? |
| 22:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko ruckenwind (n=Eric@77.177.1.201) |
| 22:32.36 | balrog-kun | CM: yes, maybe, cash helps to make a good foundation for a big project :) |
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| 22:41.29 | nox-Hand | DANG IT |
| 22:41.34 | nox-Hand | Maybe March? |
| 22:41.51 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@Z5425.z.pppool.de) |
| 22:42.14 | kdean06 | Yep. :) |
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| 22:42.59 | kdean06 | GTA02 and the next Debian stable will be out at the same time. "When it's ready". :) |
| 22:43.00 | nox-Hand | kdean06: I think I'll have to get another phone before then, mind :( |
| 22:43.14 | nox-Hand | My SonyEricsson is falling to bits |
| 22:43.15 | kdean06 | I'm debating over that same issue myself. |
| 22:43.31 | nox-Hand | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:43.34 | kdean06 | Will the GTA01 be "supported" after GTA02 is released? |
| 22:43.35 | nox-Hand | But now, it's just so long |
| 22:43.50 | nox-Hand | kdean06: Community help only most likely |
| 22:43.50 | kdean06 | Meaning... Is it realistic that I can give my GTA01 to my wife when I get the 02? |
| 22:44.58 | nox-Hand | kdean06: I o |
| 22:45.00 | nox-Hand | I don't think so |
| 22:45.21 | nox-Hand | I have severe doubts as for it's speed and "user friendlyness" even at final release :( |
| 22:45.49 | nox-Hand | My reasons for buying the phone is now limited to "GPS, WIFI, LINUX (yays! can do what I want :D :D) TOUCHSCREEN" |
| 22:45.58 | nox-Hand | The rest of it sorta disappears, think it'll be slow |
| 22:48.09 | kdean06 | I'm almost doubting the validity of my reasoning now, honestly. |
| 22:48.20 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 22:48.28 | kdean06 | "Free your phone" implied Free Software but it seem more and more of it is non-free. |
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| 22:49.02 | mudyc | kdean06: why? |
| 22:49.23 | kdean06 | Why does it seem more and more of it is non-free? |
| 22:49.31 | mjr | what is non-free? |
| 22:49.42 | mjr | 'cept the gta01 gllin |
| 22:49.56 | mjr | if you were expecting firmwares to be free, that was just unrealistic |
| 22:50.25 | kdean06 | I don't think so. |
| 22:50.53 | mjr | so you are referring to firmware then |
| 22:50.56 | kdean06 | I don't see how expecting firmware to be free is any more unrealistic than expecting the xserver to be Free, or the dialer, or anything else. |
| 22:51.19 | mjr | well, "more and more" isn't really descriptive, since the chip firmwares were never part of it |
| 22:51.37 | Magon | firmware of chips inside is simply too complicated and propriretary..like most firmwares are |
| 22:52.06 | mjr | then you're blind |
| 22:52.17 | kdean06 | Is that stated anywhere? I mean, that there's no expectation that the hardware would also be Free? |
| 22:52.18 | Magon | fimrwares of non-CPU chips are probably always propriertaly |
| 22:52.22 | mjr | and not likely to be productive conversation |
| 22:52.41 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: in some countries, making the mobile firmware free is actually illegal if you're going to sell it. |
| 22:52.57 | Magon | same goes for any radio |
| 22:53.05 | SpeedEvil | In most of the rest, it means you won't get certification. |
| 22:53.09 | SpeedEvil | and can't sell it |
| 22:53.29 | ajbrun | free = $$ or free = OS? |
| 22:53.38 | kdean06 | Libre |
| 22:53.40 | SpeedEvil | free as in you can twiddle it |
| 22:53.49 | SpeedEvil | and make it do 'bad' stuff. |
| 22:54.02 | kdean06 | :) |
| 22:54.53 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5697A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:54.56 | ahven | can someone point out the big hardware fixes (not additions like wifi) between 01 and 02? |
| 22:55.05 | ahven | one was the 850MHz bug |
| 22:55.08 | SpeedEvil | none really |
| 22:55.12 | SpeedEvil | that's not a fix |
| 22:55.21 | SpeedEvil | the same fix could go into 01 |
| 22:55.25 | ahven | ok |
| 22:55.50 | SpeedEvil | A fix would be making it quadband |
| 22:56.07 | nox-Hand | Jeez, "I'm almost doubting the validity of my reasoning now, honestly.", you sound like an uncommitted suicidal standing on the top of a large building vavering over the edge |
| 22:56.11 | nox-Hand | ^___^ |
| 22:56.49 | kdean06 | That wording does look bad, doesn't it. :) |
| 22:56.55 | nox-Hand | Quite :) |
| 22:57.03 | ahven | so basically, when the PM goes online, the battery should last about the same for both devices? |
| 22:57.10 | nox-Hand | *twirls large knife around in his hand* |
| 22:57.15 | SpeedEvil | in theory, yes. |
| 22:57.20 | SpeedEvil | maybe a bit more for 02 |
| 22:57.28 | ahven | hmm? |
| 22:57.28 | SpeedEvil | as it's got a larger battery |
| 22:57.31 | ahven | ah ok |
| 22:57.35 | ahven | forgot about that |
| 22:57.40 | ahven | and a faster CPU |
| 22:57.47 | SuN | Now, what's really disappointing, is Android. I thought it was actually open source, but looking at balrog-kun's tests, it obviously isn't. |
| 22:58.06 | ifeel | but doing some work on the kernel maybe we can have a longer life for our neo... |
| 22:58.10 | SpeedEvil | The faster CPU - in principle when it's properly powersaved - may be faster |
| 22:58.24 | SpeedEvil | ifeel: have you read the power managment page on the wiki? |
| 22:58.36 | SpeedEvil | there are some 7 possible items to save power. |
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| 22:58.42 | SpeedEvil | about 1.5 have been done. |
| 22:58.42 | ifeel | SpeedEvil: no...why?? |
| 22:59.08 | ifeel | SpeedEvil: I'm gonna read it now |
| 22:59.22 | SpeedEvil | neo1973 power managment or something |
| 22:59.40 | SpeedEvil | Sigh |
| 22:59.45 | SpeedEvil | wiki down for others? |
| 22:59.56 | ahven | up |
| 23:00.18 | ahven | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management |
| 23:00.19 | SpeedEvil | oh - it's come back |
| 23:00.24 | SpeedEvil | that looks like it |
| 23:01.33 | balrog-kun | SuN: oh, they aren't my tests, i haven't tried running Android :) |
| 23:01.40 | ajbrun | down for me... |
| 23:02.10 | ifeel | the wiki page isn't updated since 17 Sept... |
| 23:02.10 | balrog-kun | but yes this is disappointing and also disappointing was the UI itself, i expected some innovative ideas from google |
| 23:02.18 | ifeel | maybe we're better now... |
| 23:06.03 | nox-Hand | I admit the Android sounds good |
| 23:06.13 | nox-Hand | untill you hear that killing word |
| 23:06.17 | nox-Hand | J A V A |
| 23:06.25 | nox-Hand | *stab* |
| 23:06.35 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 23:06.47 | SpeedEvil | There are processors with actual hardware java units. |
| 23:06.50 | SuN | Java isn't bad at all, providing the speed is ok. |
| 23:07.24 | SuN | Have you seen what Opera did with Java? |
| 23:07.36 | SuN | Heh, coincidence. |
| 23:10.01 | balrog-kun | java is ok with me, but i expected something cool or creative from their user interface |
| 23:10.14 | balrog-kun | and it's just like every other smartphone ui |
| 23:10.20 | SuN | Hm, I'm looking at Engadget's tour now. |
| 23:10.27 | mwester | Java is nothing more than COBOL for 2000 -- the "wordiness", the target developers and market, and the efficiency is all aimed at that same segment.\ |
| 23:10.42 | nox-Hand | From Google you'd expect a bit more |
| 23:11.11 | mwester | There's nothing wrong with that, except if someone uses the wrong language to solve a problem, you tend to create code that is more difficult to write and maintain than is necessary. |
| 23:11.43 | mwester | Coding a cell phone OS is *NOT* a business application. Coding a PIM application might, perhaps, be such. |
| 23:12.04 | mudyc | i like the simple design of java 1.3 but not beyond - it's a bit like C |
| 23:12.49 | mwester | The fundamental characteristic is that it is interpreted, and garbage collected. That alone makes in inappropriate for a host of low-level tasks. |
| 23:13.06 | SpeedEvil | Java is not fundamentally interpreted. |
| 23:13.08 | SpeedEvil | It can be. |
| 23:13.21 | nox-Hand | Should have made it in Py ;) |
| 23:13.50 | SuN | mwester: they're not using it on that level though, are they? |
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| 23:14.14 | mudyc | mwester: it depends of the arm type, some of them has the jazelle extension set |
| 23:14.21 | SpeedEvil | mwester: simply as it's interpreted on 99.99% of current applications doesn't make it fundamentally interpreted. |
| 23:14.52 | mwester | SpeedEvil: Ok, ok -- so you *THEORETICALLY* can make a Java CPU -- but that doesn't change the garbage collection aspect. |
| 23:15.19 | SpeedEvil | gc can also have hardware assist |
| 23:15.19 | mudyc | mwester: it's not theory - google for it and you will find a one |
| 23:15.32 | nox-Hand | Hmn |
| 23:15.45 | SpeedEvil | java and even forth bytecode cpus are around |
| 23:16.00 | nox-Hand | On my cell provider hardly anyone stuck to my plan |
| 23:16.04 | nox-Hand | But the ones that have done for a long time |
| 23:16.09 | nox-Hand | They put down the monthly price |
| 23:16.10 | mwester | mudyc: How does it handle interrupts? context switches? I don't know of java bytecodes to handle the activities for that. |
| 23:16.15 | nox-Hand | And now give great offers :D |
| 23:16.39 | nox-Hand | Next month I go to top stage (stage loyal, plus and SUPER - I am going SUPER :D) |
| 23:16.53 | LarstiQ | mwester: also, you can compile to machine code |
| 23:16.53 | nox-Hand | Thanks :) |
| 23:17.22 | mudyc | mwester: depends of the implementation. read it by yourself ;) |
| 23:17.24 | *** join/#openmoko osmosis (n=steven@63.139.86.3) |
| 23:18.35 | nox-Hand | Dont suppose the HTC P3450 Touch or the LG KE850 Prada can run Linux? |
| 23:18.49 | SuN | nox-Hand: in ten years, perhaps. |
| 23:18.57 | nox-Hand | I like the look of thE HTC TOuch, but... it's WIndows Mobile 6 o_o |
| 23:19.04 | SuN | HTC has awesome hardware. |
| 23:19.11 | nox-Hand | Admittedly still tempted |
| 23:20.15 | jeremym | HTC? |
| 23:20.36 | nox-Hand | jeremym: This phone >> http://www.coolsmartphone.com/article724.html |
| 23:20.39 | SuN | Some people are working on Linux for HTC devices. Not sure if any of the devices is ready for daily use, though. |
| 23:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko R_ (n=Eric@77.177.1.201) |
| 23:21.46 | nox-Hand | I've just wanted a touchscreen phone for ages, and I think theres enough Windows Mobile mods to make me fit with it OK |
| 23:22.14 | nox-Hand | And the price on "Plus" stage with my cell provider is 100 pounds, and it should drop when I turn "SUPER" next month ~~~~ think I want x) |
| 23:22.25 | nox-Hand | ~~170 USD btw |
| 23:23.26 | SuN | I'm happy with my E6, currently. Nothing too fancy but the OS is rocksolid and it's fast. I've heard (and seen) too many problems with Windows Mobile to not want to touch it. |
| 23:24.19 | SuN | I think I'd sooner get an LG prada or Viewty than a Windows Mobile phone. |
| 23:24.23 | Stephmw | nox-Hand: my take on UK data rates for mobiles is that we're getting shafted by three operators at once |
| 23:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 23:26.50 | nox-Hand | Stephmw: I am currently living in Denmark :) |
| 23:27.12 | nox-Hand | I pay 6 pounds a month and get unlimited texts ~~ then I pay 0.1 pound a minute to call |
| 23:27.17 | SuN | Hm, judging from Engadget's visual tour, Android might not seem very spectacular but it looks OK. |
| 23:27.35 | nox-Hand | Which used to be 12 pounds/0.3, but because I have had for about 2½ years I get better prices :D |
| 23:27.39 | SuN | If it has some fancy visual effects, I guess could be more or less the same as the iPhone's OS. |
| 23:28.19 | Kliment_ | I think the only thing android really has going for it right now is customizable core apps and big industry support |
| 23:28.47 | nox-Hand | Kliment_: I think V1 will be "wow" but not very useful |
| 23:28.51 | nox-Hand | Sorta like the iPhone |
| 23:29.04 | nox-Hand | But V3-5 would likely be "meh" but very useful |
| 23:29.56 | Kliment_ | I am at the stage where I prefer useful and reliable to wow |
| 23:30.07 | SuN | Damn these VxWorks-based pocket-size routers! I fell for that with open eyes. |
| 23:30.13 | Kliment_ | thus my neo is only my secondary phone |
| 23:30.45 | Kliment_ | SuN: link? |
| 23:31.27 | SuN | There's no link, but I can assure you they're crappy. |
| 23:33.09 | SuN | Linksys moved to VxWorks-based routers from Linux, and this Belkin I have is basically identical. |
| 23:35.09 | thomasg_ | today I got a new linksys WRT54G, and according to the openwrt channel it's pretty useless |
| 23:35.20 | thomasg_ | 2 mb flash, 8 mb ram, fairly not enough for a solid linux system |
| 23:35.22 | SuN | Is it a VxWorks one as well? |
| 23:35.26 | thomasg_ | yeah :( |
| 23:35.30 | SuN | :| |
| 23:35.42 | thomasg_ | well, I'll send it back and get a asus or so |
| 23:35.43 | LarstiQ | yeah, you need the L version |
| 23:36.02 | thomasg_ | also buffalo seems to have a cheap openwrt-capable device (8 mb flash, 32 mb ram) |
| 23:36.19 | thomasg_ | the standardfirmware of the linksys device simply sucks. |
| 23:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko snarfer (n=snarfer@unaffiliated/snarfer) |
| 23:36.53 | SuN | Buffalo isn't very wide-spread here in the Netherlands... I'll switch to a PII 350 and use the Belkin as an access point only. |
| 23:36.54 | mwester | heh - if you check the eBay listings, you'll often see people enquiring on the serial number of the Linksys routers before placing a bid - the older Linux-based ones are often more valuable. |
| 23:37.31 | SuN | Well... routers is another field where people would benefit from open platforms. |
| 23:37.44 | SuN | Most routers you can buy in stores today are barely sufficient. |
| 23:37.49 | new_bie | thomasg_ Linksys still ships linux based routers |
| 23:38.02 | new_bie | WRT54GL |
| 23:38.20 | SuN | new_bie: those are pretty scarce at the moment, though. |
| 23:38.22 | mwester | I've replaced the firmware in most of my routers, but I too made the mistake of buying a Belkin unit that is impractical to upgrade. :( |
| 23:38.31 | mwester | The Belkin is now just an access point. |
| 23:38.57 | SuN | mwester: I have another Belkin unit that supposedly can run openwrt... it's more or less identical to the WRT54G. |
| 23:39.08 | SuN | Pre-v4 that is |
| 23:39.29 | SuN | I bought 2 small ones, a Linksys and a Belkin, and they're both the same VxWorks crap. |
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| 23:42.25 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@86.156.78.27) |
| 23:43.55 | Jiten | buffalo has openwrt capable device? which one? |
| 23:46.10 | nox-Hand | Night yal |
| 23:46.19 | SuN | G'night |
| 23:46.38 | nox-Hand | SuN: =] |
| 23:52.16 | mwester | Jiten: The dd-wrt web site lists a few of them; they're basically the same as the Linksys. |
| 23:53.31 | CVirus | sameo: how about you update us with the WiFi driver status ? |
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