IRC log for #openmoko on 20071217

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00:57.31PiemanDCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 0
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02:11.50jeremymWhen I do a #  make update-makefile
02:12.10jeremymI get an error :   svn.nslu2-linux.org , have people seen this before?
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02:15.23jeremymlooks like rwhitby.net is down too.
02:16.33Meknot from here
02:17.10jeremymIp address?
02:17.35Mek66.159.209.53
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02:31.24shovels
02:32.57balrog-kun.         ..
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03:16.52rwhitbyjeremym: rwhitby.net is up
03:17.10jeremymthanks.
03:17.17rwhitbyit was never down
03:17.38rwhitbywe changed IP address on Saturday from .60 to .53 - perhaps you had a cached DNS which hadn't timed out
03:24.35duffydrwhitby: you know how to get palm apps running on OM?
03:24.51rwhitbyport pose
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04:38.33rastermoo
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07:08.08Hopscotchgood morning
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07:25.58SpeedEvilhow long does the 'make setup' stage of mmf take? It's downloaded the 140M bz2
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07:26.41SpeedEvilMokoMakefile, not Master Mind Flayer
07:26.57SpeedEvilAh - it's fallen over.
07:27.10SpeedEvilError validating server certificate for 'https://svn.openmoko.org:443':
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07:29.07blindcodermoin
07:29.11SpeedEvilokaay - that seems to work.
07:29.54rastergrrr
07:29.55SpeedEvilrwhitby: the initial svn co stage in make setup fails to run again due to the directory openmoko existing
07:29.59rasterwhy is fakeroot now broken?
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08:31.27rwhitbySpeedEvil: better talk to cesarb about his patch ...
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09:29.39SpeedEvilAnyone have thoughts as to why 'ERROR: Importing sqlite3 and pysqlite2 failed, please install one of them. A 'python-pysqlite2' like package is likely to be what you need.
09:29.44SpeedEvil' might be happening?
09:30.03SpeedEvilI've downloaded, and make install'd it.
09:30.59CIA-14openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r3657 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (10 files in 5 dirs): gsmd: conference call support (Sean Chiang)
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09:34.31mbufhow to start sshd on the Neo, if it doesn't start by default? "ps -ae | grep ssh" returns nothing
09:34.42SpeedEvilit's not called that
09:34.47SpeedEvilit's called something else
09:34.53SpeedEvil...
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09:34.57mbufSpeedEvil, openssh-server?
09:34.58SpeedEvildropbear?
09:35.03zashnetstat -lpn | grep ':22'
09:35.45SpeedEvilOk - that problem solved - looks like I forgot to ldconfig
09:36.01SpeedEvilbut now it's saying           bitbake openmoko-devel-image uboot-openmoko )
09:36.01SpeedEvilERROR: Unable to open conf/bitbake.conf
09:37.47mbufSpeedEvil, zash, urgh, battery problems, Neo shutsdown
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10:12.35cesarbrwhitby: I didn't expect the directory to exist but not be a svn checkout (both the stamps file and the entries file have to be missing for it to try to do the checkout)
10:12.58rwhitbycesarb: that can happen if the initial checkout is aborted
10:13.02cesarbrwhitby: In fact, I'd expect the previous version (without a mkdir in that place) to fail as well if the directory exists
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10:13.39cesarbrwhitby: I see. Would changing it to mkdir -p be enough?
10:14.09rwhitbywe also need to handle the case where trunk is checked out successfully, but developers is not
10:14.15cesarbrwhitby: (I tend to prefer having it abort if things are not "clean", but with mkdir -p would behave more like it was before)
10:14.31cesarbrwhitby: I thought of that, but didn't want to make the lines even longer ;-)
10:14.42rwhitbyI would split it into two sections
10:15.00rwhitbythen the entries check can be specific to the checkout (trunk or developers)
10:15.19rwhitby(and do mkdir -p as well)
10:15.35cesarbrwhitby: that would work (and be EVEN MORE like the original in terms of behaviour, while using 2x the amount of lines :D )
10:15.46rwhitbywould probably move the mkdir into it's own line too
10:16.00rwhitbyok, I'll fix it up
10:17.44SpeedEvilsimilar problem I was having earlier - svn failed due to certificate unknown in make setup
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10:17.49Blasturhellu
10:18.21SpeedEvilthen wouldn't retry as the dir is made
10:18.23cesarbSpeedEvil: certificate problems usually mean you have to (on Debian-style systems) install or dpkg-reconfigure the ca-certificates package
10:18.26Blasturhow are things
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10:18.56SpeedEvilcedric: probably - I just said 'accept permenantly' manually though
10:20.16rwhitbyhmm - the non-developer checkout should be http, not https.
10:20.22Blasturi dont mean to be a nag, but was it the power bug alone that set the GTA02 back from Dec 2007 to March 2008?
10:21.48cesarbrwhitby: don't look at me, I copy-pasted the URL part of the lines ;-)
10:21.53SpeedEvilNo - on reflection december was unlikely to be hit.
10:22.12Blasturhit?
10:22.13SpeedEvilbut if the power bug hadn't appeared, maybe january?
10:22.19SpeedEvilachieved.
10:22.25Blasturoh, ok
10:22.37emdeteis there a chance to give back gta01 due to malefunction gps-antenna and get something off when bying a gta02? :D
10:23.16CIA-14openmoko: 03rwhitby * r172 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Fixed the error handling of the openmoko svn checkout.
10:23.43rwhitbycesarb, SpeedEvil: give that a try please, I was unable to test it here cause I'm in the middle of an OE database download.
10:23.55Blasturis it difficult to make openmoko apps on a PC?
10:24.28Blasturi have an idea i'd like to tryout, but i cant wait any longer for gta02 :)
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10:27.17Blasturi wonder if there are any other "open" phones in production right now? someone said the first android phone would arrive spring 2008, which now appears to be the same period as gta02 :)
10:27.19cesarbrwhitby: looks sane, can't actually test here since it takes hours to do the initial checkout (due to some "small" sound files) and I will leave to work soon
10:27.52rwhitbyBlastur: heh - you're assuming an android phone will be open.
10:28.18cesarbBlastur: I don't know if android will be as open as the neo. In fact, I don't think there's any phone as open as the neo on the market currently.
10:28.35Blasturok
10:28.56cesarbBlastur: except for perhaps a "make your own" gumstix or similar contraption (sp?)
10:28.58rwhitbyI expect initial android phones to be locked up tight.  Especially since they are from US companies and will be marketed to people who are used to subsidies from contracts.
10:29.00zashcesarb: all current phone-uis suck also
10:29.15Blasturwell, tbh, i dont know much about the android project .. it seems like they talk a lot about java apps, and provide a good interface to hw through tehre
10:29.21cesarbzash: but some suck more than the others... (I have a Razr, for instance)
10:29.57zashcesarb: my 6 yrs old 3310 has the most logical and smart ui i have ever seen in a phone
10:30.10zashthats how mutch all phones suck
10:30.11cesarbBlastur: that's not nearly as open as the neo. On the neo, you have FULL (down to the metal) control of the main CPU, the PMU, and the audio subsystem
10:30.38cesarbBlastur: with consequence that you also fully control things like the LCD, vibrator and backlight (which are solely controled by the CPU)
10:30.55cesarbBlastur: in fact, the only parts you don't control fully on a neo are the three radios
10:31.29Blasturyeah, but wont i be able to control lcd etc on a normal phone too? like on my current motorola phone, i can put pixels on the screen, make the vibrator go off
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10:32.47Blasturim just saying that if ppl get to pick between neo, which is fully open, and an android phone which may have better hardware (still, not so open) (.. like EDGE), they may go for the android
10:33.28cesarbBlastur: ...and then get hooked on freedom, and end up picking a neo later? sounds like a plan ;-)
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10:34.21Blasturprobably :)
10:34.32Blasturhow bad is the gta01 in terms of hw bugs?
10:34.45Blasturi may consider getting one if the gta02 is delayed until march
10:36.21cesarbBlastur: well, as far as I recall the only hardware "bug" (more like lack of a feature) is that the BT wakeup line is not brought to a CPU interrupt pin
10:36.43Blasturbut it should also have things like power bug, right?
10:36.50Blasturlike the gta02 suffers from
10:36.53cesarbBlastur: all the gta01 "bugs" (or lack of useful features like... power management) I can recall so far are on software
10:37.01Blasturoh
10:37.07cesarbBlastur: ah, there's one true hardware bug: the 850MHz issue
10:37.07Blasturit doesnt have pwr management?
10:37.16Blasturim not in a 850 mhz area anyway
10:37.50cesarbBlastur: and the corresponding software bug (but on the GSM modem side which is a hell get authorization to ship a program to do the update), the 3G SIM bug
10:38.40cesarbBlastur: it has power management (very poor) right now. some time ago, it didn't. I'm planning on hacking a bit on the kernel to add more power management.
10:39.22cesarbAnd I'm hoping someone makes the battery charge meter be less unrealistic (shutting off with half the bar on the UI is not my idea of "fun")
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10:40.08cesarbBlastur: there's another hardware bug I'm recalling right now, that in some units the GPS antenna cable gets pinched by the case
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10:46.15SpeedEvilcesarb: I've got a patch that hopefully should be going in in a few days to do better battery managment
10:46.28SpeedEvilat least better capacity estimation.
10:46.42SpeedEvilFinally got stuff unpacked off my backup hd, and a OM build kicked off
10:46.50cesarbSpeedEvil: yay
10:47.59cesarbSpeedEvil: I'm going to try writing a patch to first do the dynticks stuff (longer IDLE times), and then make SLOW work (which will be an annoying amount of work, since if I'm reading it correctly it changes the clock for EVERYTHING, including things like the UARTs)
10:48.19cesarbSpeedEvil: since I don't have much free time, it's gonna take some time to write all that...
10:49.05cesarbAnd I don't even know if I will succeed (mostly because of the UARTs, which could get confused by the clock transition... and I can't hack gllin to compensate. *sigh* closed source...)
10:49.08xkr47lol @ uart timing changes
10:49.11SpeedEvilI think slow is an order of magnitude more power saving though
10:49.26SpeedEvilyou can pause gllin
10:49.37SpeedEvilwhile stuff stabilises
10:49.46SpeedEvilit's not hard-real-time
10:49.51cesarbSpeedEvil: the kernel doesn't know about gllin. the kernel shouldn't know about gllin :|
10:50.17cesarbSpeedEvil: the GSM modem should be easier, if I can just drop CTS for a moment while the clock changes
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10:51.24cesarbAnd there are all the odds and ends (I2C, I2S, I2etc) which can also get confused but I didn't read much about yet
10:56.17cesarbWell, gtg
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11:16.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1136 has been created by chris(AT)openedhand.com
11:16.02cdbot2* * GSM panel applet keeps on displaying 'Connected to GSM network' notification
11:16.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1136
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11:32.24ahventoo bad that the Neo headset isn't compatible with other cellulars - my N6120C plays music in the left speaker only
11:33.27ahveninverted also
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12:11.17CIA-14openmoko: 03chris * r3658 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-contacts.c src/sms.h):
12:11.17CIA-14openmoko: * src/sms-contacts.c: (delete_all_added_cb),
12:11.17CIA-14openmoko: (delete_all_progress_cb), (delete_all_clicked_cb):
12:11.17CIA-14openmoko: Implement delete-all functionality in the contacts view
12:11.17CIA-14openmoko: * src/sms.h:
12:11.19CIA-14openmoko: Remove unused variable
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12:16.52Stephmwmornin
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12:17.18zashhm
12:17.22zashis there a file manager?
12:17.30zashor -browser
12:18.16rasterthere will be eventually
12:18.44zashany idea of how miller columns would be on a small screen?
12:18.49zash+touch
12:19.00rastermiller?
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12:19.36zashhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_Columns
12:19.53rasteroh that
12:20.21rasternot interested in doing anything like that myself
12:20.52rasteri just don't much like them
12:21.07rastergiven lack of screen space they dont really seem to lend themselevs to a small screen
12:28.49xcasexraster: rage.
12:31.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1137 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com
12:31.02cdbot2* * need to add recipe to OE/OM to build expedit on the image
12:31.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1137
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12:39.06rasterxcasex: what about rage?
12:39.46xcasexraster port it.
12:40.16rasterhell no
12:40.31rasterits intended mostly for hd video
12:40.34rasterits way too heavy
12:40.40rastervideo will crawl at 1fps
12:40.42rasteror less
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12:43.19rasterthere will be no vidoe accel for rage
12:43.23rasterthus its software only
12:43.36rastersoftware only on the neo... playing fullscreen video
12:43.37rasterhahahhahaha
12:44.29SpeedEvilAlt Sex Stories Text Repository
12:44.50blindcoderah
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12:48.04bairdAh, I'd thought that Apple had patented 'single-column miller columns', but the patent was unsucessful: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=56754
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12:50.09Tek_Grml1I am trying to develop a simple X app for a test with the neo
12:50.16Tek_Grml1I am not so experienced with linux
12:50.26Tek_Grml1any suggestions for the easiest tool chain
12:50.43ynezzyes, python
12:50.51Tek_Grml1sorry has to be C++
12:50.56Tek_Grml1forgot to mention
12:51.06Tek_Grml1I tried for python an my boss shot me down
12:51.26mbufTek_Grml1, the toolchain supports C++
12:52.05SpeedEvilOn what grounds?
12:52.10Tek_Grml1I know there is C++ support, but I am just wondering what other people use for the complete toolchain
12:52.12rasterc or c++ is fine
12:52.14Tek_Grml1eg eclipse
12:52.18SpeedEvilpython is not unreasonable
12:52.19rastertoolchain you mean
12:52.21rasteror toolkit?
12:52.21Tek_Grml1+ etc
12:52.32Tek_Grml1whole thing
12:52.37SpeedEvilThe MokoMakefile is a popular way to get a toolchain up and running
12:52.55SpeedEvillook on the wiki
12:52.57Tek_Grml1but it is huge is it not, and requires hours to build
12:53.01Tek_Grml1I have
12:53.10Tek_Grml1I am just looking for hints to speed things up
12:53.20SpeedEvilNot that many hours - but it is a 'come back tomorrow' in many cases.
12:53.28Tek_Grml1my experience with the wiki is it is often incomplete for linux newbies such as myself
12:53.45SpeedEvilOn a related matter - how do I tell it not to build qemu
12:53.48Tek_Grml1I just want to build a simple app transfer to phone and run
12:54.11Tek_Grml1like I would in ubunto but compile for the neo
12:54.44rasterthat also assumes it builds
12:54.51rasterwhich it very often does not
12:54.52raster:)
12:55.11SpeedEvilTek_Grml1: do you actually need to compile for the neo?
12:55.27Tek_Grml1I don't know exactly I am just starting
12:55.28SpeedEvilyou can display windows on the neo from the desktop
12:55.42SpeedEvilwhich is completely fine for 99.9% of concept stuff
12:55.53xcasexraster: hehe evil :p
12:56.38rasterSpeedEvil: true - assuming your usb connection works sanely anddoesnt have 100ms ping times
12:56.39raster:)
12:56.52SpeedEvilraster: I can only say it works for me
12:57.05Tek_Grml1but cant I compile it somehow on my desktop and just transfer the binary
12:57.09rasterhehehe
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12:58.11SpeedEvilTek_Grml1: yes you can, if you've setup the appropriate build environment. This is non-trivial though.
12:58.23Tek_Grml1this is why I am looking for hints
12:58.27SpeedEvilThe other alternative is to use a portable bytecode or interpreted language.
12:58.39Tek_Grml1no no, must be C++
12:58.43Tek_Grml1no choice
12:59.07rasterright now  you basically have no choice
12:59.10rasteryou need to build openmoko
12:59.14rasterthe whole tree
12:59.21rasterthen create a .bb recipie for yur app
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12:59.25rasterthen build a package for it
12:59.27rasterthen install that
12:59.35rasterif you want it on the phone and running
12:59.42SpeedEvilfor non-X stuff, you can install the compiler natively, and do that
12:59.46SpeedEvilI haven't got X stuff working
12:59.51Tek_Grml1that seems pretty retarded
13:00.08SpeedEvilYou are welcome to create a non-retarded toolchain.
13:00.49Mekyou don't need to create a .bb recipee for your app
13:01.39rasterwell u can run it by hand
13:01.40Mekonce you have build the whole tree you can just cross-compile anything you like with it without having to try to figure out how to create a .bb recipee
13:01.46rasterif u set your environment variables right etc.
13:01.54rasterif it is any sufficiently complex app that needs to link to libs
13:01.57rasterand build many files
13:02.00rasteru'll want a recipe
13:02.12Meknah, I've build large parts of kde4 without a recipe
13:02.15rasterif its a single .c file uwiht no libs needed u might get away with manual compiling
13:02.16raster:)
13:02.18SpeedEvilAll we need is x86-qemu on the phone.
13:02.23Tek_Grml1so everytime I want to test my code I have to wait 6 hours for it to build?????
13:02.23SpeedEvilThen this problem goes away
13:02.28SpeedEvilTek_Grml1: no
13:02.32SpeedEvilit only builds your app
13:02.39Tek_Grml1ok
13:02.43Tek_Grml1then it is ok
13:02.43rasterTek_Grml1:  oh no
13:02.46rasteryou built it all once
13:02.49zashSpeedEvil: yeah! that'll be fast to!
13:02.51rasterthen just rebuild your app
13:03.04rasteryou only need to wait for just your app to rebuild
13:03.11Tek_Grml1phew
13:03.11SpeedEvilZanoi_: ustilising JTL technology. (Just Too Late)
13:03.40Tek_Grml1that is not so retarded then
13:03.48Tek_Grml1just me
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13:27.23CIA-14openmoko: 03chris * r3659 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c):
13:27.23CIA-14openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (delete_clicked_cb):
13:27.23CIA-14openmoko: Implement delete functionality in notes view (allows deleting of
13:27.23CIA-14openmoko: individual messages)
13:28.31ifeelyeah!!we're growing...not so fast but we're growing!!!
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14:07.12NineXanyone tryed to make cals from neo my calling partner hear himself (echo) . someone tell me what i need to change in alsa settings to avoid this?
14:10.06cjb_ie16 16:08:57 < KrisAbsinthe> It was quite a while ago about the audio: the echo is caused by the phone. If you manually change the settings in alsamixer  turn down the amplification and up the actual  audio volume to 1 red bar it sounds great, gets rid of that crappy airy sound too
14:10.12cjb_ie16 16:20:32 < KrisAbsinthe> Yes, i edited the alsa settings wile on the phone with my wife, if you do what i typed earlier it ends the echo
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14:15.23CIA-14openmoko: 03chris * r3660 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-contacts.c src/sms.h):
14:15.23CIA-14openmoko: * src/sms-contacts.c: (search_toggled_cb),
14:15.23CIA-14openmoko: (search_text_changed_cb), (search_combo_changed_cb),
14:15.23CIA-14openmoko: (contacts_visible_func), (sms_contacts_page_new):
14:15.23CIA-14openmoko: * src/sms.h:
14:15.24CIA-14openmoko: Add contacts filtering via search string
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14:23.16SpeedEvilWhat's the 'proper' way to remove a package from the om build?I tried cd openembedded/packages/;rm -r qemu
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14:25.19SpeedEvilbut it's now taken about an hour of CPU and done nothing
14:25.30SpeedEvilstalled on NOTE: Parsing finished. 4685 cached, 0 parsed, 238 skipped, 0 masked.
14:25.34SpeedEvilnormal?
14:25.44SpeedEvilOr did I break something
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14:28.23Tek_Grml1ls
14:28.28Tek_Grml1ooops
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14:34.03univacapt-get install sl ;d
14:34.58mohamedI decided to change the System_boot.png image, does any one know how to do so?
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14:36.29StephmwTek_Grml1: drwx------ 2 Tek_Grml1 Tek_Grml1 4096 Dec 16 14:04 goatse.jpg
14:36.39StephmwTek_Grml1: drwx------ 2 Tek_Grml1 Tek_Grml1 4096 Dec 16 14:05 lovingwithneo.jpg
14:36.51Stephmwah, damn, left the folder attribute
14:37.10MekI was just wondering why you have folders named .jpg...
14:37.34StephmwMek: yeah, I should've done it in an editor, rather than direct in irssi
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14:39.14mohamedfrom where could I get package names and their function?
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14:55.50CIA-14openmoko: 03chris * r3661 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
14:55.50CIA-14openmoko: * configure.ac:
14:55.50CIA-14openmoko: Add AC_GNU_SOURCE for strcasestr
14:55.50CIA-14openmoko: * src/sms-contacts.c:
14:55.50CIA-14openmoko: Include config.h first
14:55.51CIA-14openmoko: * src/sms-notes.c: (search_toggled_cb), (search_text_changed_cb),
14:55.53CIA-14openmoko: (search_combo_changed_cb), (notes_visible_func),
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15:04.12SpeedEvilHmm, 2h cpu
15:04.59CMSpeedEvil: make clobber-qemu
15:05.14SpeedEvilah, thanks
15:05.55CMShould remove everything except the source files
15:07.13mohamedhow to rebuild the a package
15:07.15mohamed?
15:07.39CMmohamed: If you use the makefile, make rebuild-package-<name>
15:07.48CMWhy rebuild it? :)
15:08.42mohamedCM: From where to know package name?
15:09.15CMHeh, if you don't know what you want to rebuild it's hard to rebuild it
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15:09.36emdetemohamed: find . -name \*.bb
15:10.16CMmohamed: You can also try searching here: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/
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15:10.59emdetewhat's the current kernel for the neo? is 2.6.22.5-moko11 up to date?
15:11.24CMI think so, it's the latest one the makefile builds
15:11.25emdetei ask because 2.6.22.5-moko11 doesn't activate the vibrator anymore...
15:11.49mohamedCM: I want to change the system boot image, can I?
15:12.09CMmohamed: You mean the splash image? Yes, you can. Look in the wiki
15:12.09emdetewhile u-boot does it (i opened the case recently and wasnt shure if i broke it - gps does not work at all since then)
15:12.37SpeedEvilCM: I guess make clobber qemu is not the same as make clobber-qemu...
15:12.46emdeteCM: do you know of any problems with vibrator?
15:12.58CMSpeedEvil: Ouch.. :(
15:13.05CMClobbers everything..
15:13.21CMemdete: No, but I haven't tried a later build than 071214
15:13.23SpeedEvilCM: it had only gotten up to qem.
15:15.03emdeteCM: oups, sorry, my fault. took code from greenphone that does on/off only. the neo has different vibrate intensity! wow!!
15:15.09CMHehe
15:15.24CMemdete: Don't enjoy the vibrations too much.. :P
15:15.27emdeteCM: i wrote 1 to it, it needs at least 100 to start...  phew, thats cool
15:15.45emdeteCM: i do. i don't like sound from gadgets
15:15.46mohamedCM: sorry, but could you tell me where in the wiki, I mean the image which I have to wait for loading named System_boot.png I think
15:16.39CMmohamed: You can use this search engine to find OpenMoko things easier: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=018430699993342716089%3Aszsaurhronw
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15:17.12CMmohamed: The first hit when searching on psplash there is: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Splash_screen
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15:19.03PBeckhi
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15:22.29linuxxri want me openmoko!!
15:23.04Sup3rkiddolinuxxr: openmoko is free
15:23.15Sup3rkiddowith moko makefile :P
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15:25.48jmichelCan someone point me to a reference to build kernel modules for OM?
15:27.00CMjmichel: I'm afraid you'll have to search the openembedded wiki for that
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15:34.17abraxa__jmichel: Custom modules? If not then you can find them in the modules .gz
15:34.47abraxa__jmichel: e.g. http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/modules-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r10-neo1973.tgz
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15:36.13jmichelabraxa__: yes it is a custom module so I will check in the openembedded wiki as recommended by CM
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15:36.23abraxa__jmichel: Ah okay
15:37.38Writchiejmichel: are you wan't to build loadable modules outside of the tree?
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15:39.22jmichelWritchie: I want to build a module for a usb device that is not in modules.gz
15:40.19WritchieATM there no "kernel headers" package - so you need the full sources for your kernel from the build system.
15:41.05Writchieonce you have these you can set the CROSS_COMPILE and KERNELDIR for your system and build in any directory.
15:41.17WritchieI'll post more detailed instructions on the wiki later.
15:41.58jmichelWritchie: ok I just understood what you meant by "outside the tree"... I already have the complete build environment so I guess I can add a folder in my local overlay for my module
15:42.09WritchieThere is already a USB device built into the kernel and I'm not sure how you get it go away.
15:43.38Writchiejmichel: if you use a conventional kernel make file you can build with make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=OMDIR/build/tmp/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/
15:43.38WritchieKERNELDIR=OMDIR/build/tmp/work/fic-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/liknux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-re/linux-2.6.22.5
15:43.38Writchie<PROTECTED>
15:44.09CIA-14openmoko: 03mickey * r3662 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.c: libmokogsmd2: silence DEBUG output -- closes #1035
15:44.24jmichelWritchie: ok I will try this it would be great if it is that simple!
15:44.56Writchielike most things with linux its simple once you know how ;-)
15:45.12Writchieand near impossible until you do ;)
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15:46.32balrog-kunoh nice
15:46.53Writchiejmichel: as I said, i don't know how you "unload" the exiting monolithic driver that controls the resources - its running the usb net.
15:47.18Writchiebut for sure we will need to be able to load lots of different kinds of usb device drivers eventually.
15:48.08Writchieyou can probably use BT to get a remote shell.
15:49.44mwesterDebug board with a serial console is the best bet for that sort of thing; note that you'll have to prevent gsmd from starting in order to ensure that the serial console remains functional.
15:49.59Writchiebalrog-kun: it worked fine for me. We just need to find a script to strip a full kernel tree to headers only so can be 7MB instead of 783MB
15:50.38Writchiemwester: if you have a serial board ;)
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15:50.51balrog-kunWritchie: i don't think that many people want to compile out-of-tree kernel drivers
15:50.54SpeedEvilWritchie: there is a package
15:50.55SpeedEviloh
15:51.02SpeedEvilmaybe there isn't a package
15:52.51Writchiebalrog-kun: probably not - but its much easier to play with modules.
15:53.18balrog-kunyes
15:53.38balrog-kuni think the script would consist of just three "cp" commands
15:53.58SpeedEvilWritchie: 2G microSDs are really cheap.
15:54.32balrog-kunbut you can only have one :)
15:54.41SpeedEvilWell, you could get a 6G
15:55.10Writchietoo bad its not externally accessible.
15:55.16SpeedEvilWhy isn't it?
15:55.20Writchiereally need two of them - one internal one external
15:55.28SpeedEvilnfs over bluetooth
15:55.43Writchiethat will work
15:55.49SpeedEvilOr unless you're actually doing kernel module hacking on the road, over usb
15:55.49Writchieshould
15:56.16balrog-kunnfs alone could replace the microSD
15:56.18SpeedEvilusb-net that is
15:56.41SpeedEvilI was surprised that a kernel compile only took an hour
15:56.44WritchieBTW anybody know how the low-level drivers get away spin-locking for 1 second
15:56.49SpeedEvil(local)
15:57.20balrog-kunWritchie: which driver spin-locks from 1 second?
15:57.45Writchieserial for the samsung, waiting for FIFO to clear
15:57.55balrog-kunah
15:58.03Writchiei'm sure it takes less than that - but it looks ugly to see such things
15:58.03balrog-kunyeah, the serial is broken
15:58.11balrog-kunit gets away with it because spinlock is a nop on uniprocessor
15:58.32Writchieno - its a disable all interrupts on a unirocessor AFAIK
15:58.40Writchiespinlockirq
15:58.51balrog-kunright
15:59.08zedstaris anyone else's ipkg update failing with wget --passive-ftp errors?
15:59.32Writchiebalrog-kun: and why not just disable the one irq:
15:59.56balrog-kunWritchie: you have to talk to ben dooks
16:00.03balrog-kunwhich is not an easy task in itself
16:00.35Writchiewell, this driver will need attention in a few weeks
16:02.44balrog-kuni found the no-fifo mode is also broken in serial_s3c2410, it still uses the fifo registers in no-fifo mode
16:02.51balrog-kunprobably nobody ever uses it
16:03.14Writchiebalrog-kun: ack, it looks rather ancient
16:09.33SpeedEvilCM: After doing make queu-clobber - it still tries to build qemu.
16:09.36SpeedEvilNOTE: Running task 128 of 5289 (ID: 878, /mnt/data/om/openembedded/packages/qemu/qemu-native_20070613.bb, do_configure)
16:09.42SpeedEvil(and fails)
16:09.50CMSpeedEvil: :(
16:09.55SpeedEvilthoughts?
16:10.07CMHave you disabled generating binary locales?
16:10.27SpeedEvilProabbly not
16:10.37CMENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in local.conf
16:10.52CMNot sure what else might pull in qemu
16:12.28CMI did a make clobber;make qemu-local yesterday and it worked just fine..
16:12.58CMSpeedEvil: Ahh.. Waid a minute. You're trying to build the old june snapshot. That's not a good one..
16:13.10SpeedEvilI downloaded mmf, and clicked 'go'
16:13.36CMHmm.. Should work..
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16:15.10CMI think it's working so bad because all devs are using update-bleeding-edge and have require conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc in their local.conf
16:15.30CMSpeedEvil: Try putting something like SRCDATE_qemu-native = 20070701 in your local.conf
16:15.47demaledettiwhat's the trick for preventing the on-screen keyboard from popping up if a bluetooth keyboard is in use?
16:15.50CMI rememer I had to do that some time in august for qemu-native to build
16:15.57SpeedEvilI just don't want qemu to build
16:16.11CMOk
16:16.11SpeedEvilas I hacen't got gcc3 installed
16:16.20CMAhh..
16:16.22SpeedEviland I have no use for it
16:16.44CMLatest 0.9.sometihng should build and work somewhat ok with gcc-4.2..
16:16.57SpeedEvilyes - but it has a check, which is barfing
16:17.05SpeedEviland I can't find where that check is
16:17.07CMAt least according to the bug for in in gentoo bugzilla
16:17.45CMSpeedEvil: What if you make an ugly hack to get around it and just make a softlink from /usr/bin/gcc-3 to gcc-4.2.2 or so?
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16:17.53balrog-kunperhaps, but it should still be possible to just disable qemu in OE
16:17.55CMNot sure if that would work..
16:19.01SpeedEvilAh
16:19.14SpeedEvilfound the qemu source, and run configure --don't bother me
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16:19.41SpeedEvilhmm
16:19.45SpeedEvilnope
16:20.54balrog-kunon 32 bits it likely won't build with a "no register to spill" error
16:21.17SpeedEvilit doesn't
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16:26.00SpeedEvilOk - that worked.
16:26.12SpeedEvilI dramatically simplified the configure and makefiles
16:26.21SpeedEvil#!/bin/bash
16:26.22SpeedEviltrue
16:26.25SpeedEvil:)
16:27.51mwesterMuch simplified.  Even I can follow that logic. :)
16:28.20Mononokeasusim 64
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16:28.38balrog-kunnow that's an over-simplification
16:28.40MononokeO.o
16:29.20Mononokenow you saw my router's password
16:29.25Mononoke<PROTECTED>
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16:47.53xcasexls
16:47.55xcasexdoh
16:48.08balrog-kun.       ..       README
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16:49.55Sup3rkiddobash: doh: command not found
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16:51.16SpeedEvilipkg install doh
16:51.58xcasex;_;
16:53.12balrog-kuncalculating dependencies... 41206 packages will be installed, 0 removed, continue? (y/N)
16:54.31mwesterDownloading http://packages.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/doh.ipk
16:55.47CoreDumplol
16:56.03Sup3rkiddowhat a bunch of morons we are
16:57.07CoreDumpspeak for yourself
16:57.11univacbalrog-kun: wow ;d
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17:43.52CIA-14openmoko: 03mickey * r3663 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): libmokogsmd2: keep track of GSM cipher status
17:44.10CIA-14openmoko: 03mickey * r3664 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c: openmoko-panel-gsm: indicate cipher status in popup
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17:58.42balrog-kunare there daily builds of the rootfs images somewhere on the new buildhost?
17:58.48balrog-kunhttp://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/ has only the kernel
18:00.24mickeylat this point of time there are no daily builds any more. try asking on distro-devel mailing list wrt. plans about that
18:00.50mickeyl(i used to do the builds daily, there were not automatic)
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18:02.28balrog-kuni wasn't really interested in the plans, just had on my TODO changing qemu to download the daily builds instead of stable since i saw the "daily" directory appear :p
18:02.43balrog-kunand when i got around to do it, i saw there are only kernel daily builds, but that's still good
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18:04.18mickeylwell, it'd be interested to see whether there are plans for that anyways
18:04.20mickeyl;)
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18:07.23balrog-kunugh the result is now the kernel, u-boot and rootfs images have to be downloaded from a different directory each :/
18:07.30mickeylagreed
18:07.40mickeylmight be a reason to mail distro-devel now :D
18:08.03mickeylafter all, you're part of the tools team, aren't you? :)
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18:09.48mickeyl~bon appetit
18:09.49aptrumour has it, bon appetit is smacznego.  Guten Appetit.  Eet Smakelijk.  God Appetitt.  Buon Appetito.  Buen apetito  Bom Apetite. buen apetito  Smaklig måltid!.  Hyvää ruokahalua.  Bo Proveito
18:10.28Writchie|lunchi thought it meant stuff your face
18:10.59cjb_iepfft, silly bot doesn't know about utf-8
18:18.27balrog-kunmickeyl: yeah, or opening a bug
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18:19.05balrog-kunfor the moment though i'm considering switching to ScaredyCat's private buildhost as the default download source in qemu
18:19.18balrog-kunScaredyCat: ping
18:19.29mickeylsounds good
18:19.32mickeylif that's well maintained
18:19.35mickeyllets go for it
18:19.52balrog-kuni'm not sure if it's okay with ScaredyCat's bandwidth :)
18:20.03balrog-kunyes, it has regular builds and consistently named images
18:20.11balrog-kunand less downtime so far
18:22.40mickeylyeah
18:23.52mickeylconsistently named images?
18:24.05mickeylhow do they differ wrt. stock OE builds?
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18:25.06balrog-kuni'm not sure about stock OE, but on buildhost.om.o the scheme changes every couple of weeks, so that the script can't decide which file to download
18:25.29mickeylhmm
18:25.30mickeylinteresting
18:25.40mickeylsince we're using stock OE that sounds odd
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18:26.04mickeyl*shrug* perhaps ScaredyCat is renaming them after the build process manually
18:26.47balrog-kunor if not the file name, then a directory name, the last filename change was "neo1973-" to "fic-" or "gta01-", i don't remember execatly
18:27.05balrog-kunit's this kind of changes, date format etc
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18:33.30mickeylright
18:33.39mickeylwell, this depends on the configuration of the people working on buildhost
18:33.48mickeylwhich after all shows that buildhost is not doing automated builds
18:34.00mickeylbut just a window into the builds the engineers are doing over there
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18:35.08balrog-kunyeah, it's still handy for manual downloads i think
18:35.13balrog-kunbut for the script not anymore
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18:46.35CIA-14openmoko: 03mickey * r3667 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/Makefile.am: neod: backout unintentially commited change
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19:08.06jmichelWritchie: Conserning the build of modules, when I use "make ARCH=arm" I get some errors likes "unrecognized command line option "-mlittle-endian""
19:08.26jmichelWritchie: Have you ever encountered these errors
19:08.47mickeyltry CROSS_COMPILE=<your compiler prefix>-
19:08.47Writchie|lunchjmichel: no
19:09.31Writchiewhat does your make file look like
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19:12.27Writchiejmichel: you need three settings, ARCH=  KERNELDIR= and CROSS_COMPILE=
19:12.47Writchieyou can do it in the environment or on one line to make.
19:12.58Writchiemake ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=OMDIR/build/tmp/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/
19:12.59WritchieKERNELDIR=OMDIR/build/tmp/work/fic-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/liknux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-re/linux-2.6.22.5
19:13.06Writchiethe above all on one line
19:13.36Writchiereplace OMDIR with path to your top level openmoko directory.
19:14.05jmichelWritchie: The makefile is the following... I'm not sure it takes all these into account: http://pastebin.ca/820775
19:14.05Writchiefor an out of tree build you run the make command from your source directory
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19:16.01Writchiehmmm: CROSSPREFIX - current kernel build system uses CROSS_COMPILE=
19:17.44jmichelWritchie: and the folder you are refering to in KERNELDIR does not exist in my tree
19:18.29Writchiedid you build with mokomakefile and specify remove tmp directories?
19:18.50Writchierm work or something like that
19:19.08jmichelWritchie: yes with mokomakefile and no I didn't remove any tmp directory
19:19.09Writchieyou need the kernel tree in build/tmp/work
19:19.26Writchiethe default mokomakefile removes the work directories IIRC
19:20.16jmichelit does that by default? then I may have the change this... where can I do this?
19:21.42jmichelis it possible that the kernel tree is now in build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r9/ ?
19:22.50Writchiejmichel: possible, i last built from svnr2937
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19:23.39Writchiejmichel: i have several trees
19:24.09Writchieincluding an svnr3238-r10
19:24.24WritchieI have a whole forest of kernel trees ;)
19:24.39tsuramoto:p
19:25.07Writchieyou'll need to match the one you're using in your machine.
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19:26.45tsuramotocan't see thru the trees the forest....   (dutch expression)
19:26.49Writchiejmichel: i think the neo1973-anstrum*/linux-epen...svnr3238-r10/linux-26.22 etc is correct
19:27.02Writchiewith correct spelling that is
19:27.26Writchieneo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi
19:28.51Writchiei've been using the fic-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r3
19:30.15jmichelWritchie: One last question just to make sure my tree is correct, in build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r9/,I have 3 folders: image/ install/ temp/ and 2 files: defconfig patch-2.6.22.5
19:30.25jmichelWritchie: Is anything missing ?
19:30.43ScaredyCatmmm
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19:31.07ScaredyCatanyone know what happened to timezones in oe ... they seem to be missing now.
19:31.35Writchieyou need linux-2.6.22.5
19:32.10jmichelWritchie: ok so has it been erased by the Mokomakefile after the build?
19:32.14Writchietmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r10/linux-2.6.22
19:32.20Writchiewill be the actual build directory.
19:32.54Writchiepossibly
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19:33.37jmichelWritchie: I still haven't update to r10 but I will do this right now...  thanks a lot for you help
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19:36.18Writchiei think you have to change the rmwork in you build/conf/local.conf
19:37.15Writchiejmichel: better check the wiki - it was a long time ago i did this
19:37.30jmichelok i'll check for that too
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19:38.08Writchieyou don't want to remove anything so that all of the sources remain
19:38.21Writchieunfortunately you need the disk space for that
19:39.18Writchiei've been building and test from the fic-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabil/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-re/linux-2.6.22.5 tree
19:39.44Writchieand the kernel modules work fine so far
19:40.30jmichelDo you need to install any cross compiler or it uses the one from the MOKO folder ?
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19:49.10Writchiejmichel: the build/tmp/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/bin/ tools work fine
19:49.21Writchiethis is what you are setting with CROSS_COMPILE
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19:50.10jmichelyeah I just understood this part... thanks :)
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20:30.33apaulsenDoes anyone else have a problem with their /tmp/gsm.log filling up at around 300 bytes/second?  If I leave my neo on for a few days the tmpfs fills up and I have to reboot.  I've seen a few people complain about wget failing and this might be the cause.
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20:31.41apaulsenby wget failures I mean ipkg emitting wget errors
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20:42.52quicksandapaulsen: no problem here -- the gsm.log I have is 589K (over the course of three days), and as I sit here at my desk, very little is being added to it.
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20:44.09quicksandMaybe it's worse if you move in and out of coverage.  I have pretty strong signal here.
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20:45.06apaulsenquicksand: here's some output http://pastebin.com/m44c5f141
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20:52.44quicksandapaulsen: yikes!  I get a small burst of activity exactly every five minutes, and each burst adds a couple hundred bytes to the log.
20:52.53emdeteapaulsen: om isn't ment to run for long time right now - there is lot of debug output everywhere in the software
20:52.57apaulsenI get those every second or so
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20:54.23apaulsenthat's the only log file that seems to cause any trouble, but I'll just redirect it to /dev/null if it is supposed to behave like this
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20:55.34quicksandFor the record, my results are with libgsmd 0.1+svnr3647-r39 and libmokogsmd2-0 0.1.0+svnr3534-r2
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20:55.53quicksandand libmokogsmd0 0.4+svnr2367-r0
20:57.16apaulsenI've got libgsmd - 0.1+svnr3657-r39 and libmokogsmd2-0 - 0.1.0+svnr3663-r2
20:57.41quicksandI haven't updated in a couple of days.  :)
20:58.05apaulsenI've been watching this problem for the last week or so
20:58.47apaulsenIt might have always done it and just recently became stable enough that I don't restart it every day :)
20:58.53quicksandIt looks like /etc/init.d/gsmd is the script that sets up the gsmd output to /tmp/gsm.log
20:59.01apaulsenyep
20:59.06quicksandShould be easy enough to edit that away (temporarily, at least)
20:59.37quicksandBut can you make calls?  ;)
20:59.41apaulsenI can
20:59.44apaulsenand receive them
21:00.15quicksandWell, there you go.  Works fine!
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21:52.14quicksandahven: good question.  I get -4 or -5.
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21:53.06quicksandSo I guess that rules out Kelvin.
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21:55.05ahveni get 5 or 6
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22:11.37rwhitbyETA 60 hours to download OE snapshot from downloads.openmoko.org - methinks OM needs better connectivity.
22:13.58xcasexrwhitby: elaborate please :)
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22:21.08linuxxrHOW MANY MEGS?
22:21.14linuxxroo
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22:25.07rohrwhitby hm.. what are you getting (speed)
22:26.13rohhm.. its 16msec to paris, abd 100 to washington, 366 to the node wgetting the oe snapshot
22:29.37rohgetting 4.1mbyte/sec from there on my host in ffm (5msec away)
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22:39.13new_bie<PROTECTED>
22:39.44ahvenyes
22:39.53ahvenjust like under linux :P
22:40.23new_bieyeah but i am finding it difficult to use terminal in neo
22:44.27ahvenlog in through ssh?
22:46.46new_biewats the ip ?
22:47.51xcasexwhy are non developers buying the neo?
22:48.23Mononokecommunity isn't only about developers
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22:49.12new_biexcasex : cause i want to learn and i want to develop
22:49.21xcasexnew_bie: good reason :)
22:49.30xcasexMononoke: depends on the project phase.
22:51.17quicksandnew_bie: by default, over USB networking, the Neo's IP is 192.168.0.202
22:51.46new_biethax quicksand
22:52.23ahvenwebbrowsing over bluetooth on Neo is nice, until wifi arrives
22:53.23quicksandIndeed.  Though with power mgmt being as it is, I rarely disconnect it from its USB umbilical cord.
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23:13.41rwhitbyroh: I'm getting 1.3K/s
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