IRC log for #openmoko on 20071130

`00:00.07`	`RoboPhred`	`I was using it this afternoon...`
`00:00.13`	`RoboPhred`	`ah well, recompiling`
`00:00.36`	`RoboPhred`	`its probably dell's great insight to put an extra shock sensitive hard drive in a laptop`
`00:03.05`	`*** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`00:03.44`	`RoboPhred`	`"mount: unknown filesystem type 'gadgetfs'"`
`00:03.56`	`*** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com)`
`00:04.34`	`peepsalot`	`is the mokowheel still part of the UI, or was that ditched when they did the whole UI redesign?`
`00:04.43`	`RoboPhred`	`is it an issue that /proc/filesystems lists nodev before gadgetfs?`
`00:05.01`	`mickey\|sports`	`the mokowheel is dead`
`00:05.01`	`josch`	`peepsalot, ditched`
`00:05.08`	`mickey\|sports`	`as are most of my nice classes...`
`00:05.13`	`*** part/#openmoko doughnut42 (n=goden@rrcs-67-79-195-201.sw.biz.rr.com)`
`00:05.21`	`peepsalot`	`ah ok`
`00:05.31`	`*** join/#openmoko mopri (n=jjohn@201.200.73.34)`
`00:05.34`	`balrog-kun`	`RoboPhred: no`
`00:05.46`	`RoboPhred`	`alright, so any idea whats up with it?`
`00:06.31`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=Administ@60-249-22-235.HINET-IP.hinet.net)`
`00:06.44`	`mopri`	`hi guys, .. I've been unlocking iphones for friends, and i find the the virtual keyboard great!, I was thinking to do something for the community and programming that for openmoko. But first wanted to know if anyone has already done it, and if theirs any good?`
`00:07.20`	`RoboPhred`	`there was some keyboard project I saw on the moko project site, didnt get too much info from it though`
`00:07.53`	`RoboPhred`	`I think its a different concept though, was aiming to be a sort of shorthand entry, I think`
`00:07.58`	`balrog-kun`	`RoboPhred: does your system have another mount (type mount and press <tab><tab> to see what other executables are there) maybe this one is not the original mount?`
`00:08.29`	`balrog-kun`	`does someone know if it's possible to disable the autosave in goodle docs, especially when you made no changes?`
`00:08.39`	`RoboPhred`	`mount, mount.fuze, mount.ntfs, mount.ntfs-3g, mountpoint`
`00:08.45`	`mopri`	`i'll look for itm, thanks RoboPhred`
`00:08.50`	`RoboPhred`	`mopri: http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/finger-keyboard/`
`00:08.51`	`balrog-kun`	`that's none of these :/`
`00:09.46`	`*** join/#openmoko jeffdame1h (n=jeff@dyndsl-091-096-034-040.ewe-ip-backbone.de)`
`00:18.30`	`RoboPhred`	`woo, download is almost nearly 1/5 there`
`00:18.49`	`RoboPhred`	`meanwhile I tripped the bug I am planning to try to fix at least 4 times`
`00:18.55`	`RoboPhred`	`accidentally`
`00:21.35`	`*** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-68-26.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk)`
`00:28.13`	`ljp`	`anyone gotten a bluetooth headset working?`
`00:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko jadams__ (n=jadams@rrcs-67-78-224-48.se.biz.rr.com)`
`00:28.37`	`jadams__`	`does it need an antenna for gps?`
`00:28.48`	`*** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com)`
`00:28.58`	`jadams__`	`I've had this app running all day and it only gets two satellites in the blue on agpsui`
`00:29.05`	`ljp`	`good question.`
`00:29.06`	`jadams__`	`occasionally hits three, but never triangulates`
`00:35.00`	`CIA-14`	`03mickey * r3534 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ChangeLog: libmokogsmd2: supply missing ChangeLog entry (bad mickeyl...)`
`00:38.13`	`CIA-14`	`03mickey * r3535 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c: openmoko-panel-gsm: #ifdef auto setup code for now...`
`00:38.30`	`holycow`	`hey guys`
`00:38.40`	`holycow`	`is the consumer version of moko now on sale?`
`00:38.54`	`RoboPhred`	`nop`
`00:40.21`	`RoboPhred`	`oh dear, makefile is throwing up 404s now`
`00:40.42`	`RoboPhred`	`still running though, apparently it recovered...`
`00:40.46`	`*** part/#openmoko jadams__ (n=jadams@rrcs-67-78-224-48.se.biz.rr.com)`
`00:40.54`	`*** join/#openmoko jadams__ (n=jadams@rrcs-67-78-224-48.se.biz.rr.com)`
`00:41.47`	`mjr`	`pyroute seems a _tad_ slow on gta01`
`00:41.54`	`holycow`	`mickeyl:`
`00:41.58`	`holycow`	`hehe even`
`00:42.12`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`00:44.22`	`ljp`	`mickeyl: good thinkin'`
`00:44.36`	`mickeyl`	`ya, honestly`
`00:44.43`	`mickeyl`	`the consumer version will be gta03`
`00:44.51`	`mickeyl`	`gta02 still has too much legacy`
`00:45.02`	`mickeyl`	`PMU, case, CPU.`
`00:45.13`	`mickeyl`	`GSM`
`00:45.21`	`anrp`	`gsm is legacy?`
`00:46.23`	`mickeyl`	`no, not gsm per se`
`00:46.26`	`mickeyl`	`TI Calypso`
`00:48.59`	`Crofton\|home`	`men assumes mickeyl has learned a lot about the cell phone handset biz ...`
`00:49.08`	`Crofton\|home`	`er /em assuems`
`00:49.13`	`mickeyl`	`indeed`
`00:49.13`	`Crofton\|home`	`er /me ...`
`00:49.14`	`mickeyl`	`it's amazing`
`00:49.18`	`Crofton\|home`	`yeah`
`00:49.24`	`mickeyl`	`i didn't know shit about manufacturing`
`00:49.35`	`mickeyl`	`now i know more than i wanted ;)`
`00:49.39`	`Crofton\|home`	`:)`
`00:49.53`	`Crofton\|home`	`I know a little, but that knowledge is out of date`
`00:50.04`	`Crofton\|home`	`nad in much lower volume`
`00:51.07`	`mickeyl`	`i know for sure that when I'm in the position of leading a team that makes a product involving hardware product, I will chose my production partners wisely...`
`00:51.11`	`*** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117)`
`00:51.19`	`Crofton\|home`	`yeah`
`00:51.26`	`mickeyl`	`otherwise you're spending billions of dollars with PCB revisions`
`00:51.37`	`Crofton\|home`	`those guys are not cheap`
`00:51.40`	`mickeyl`	`s/spending/wasting/`
`00:51.53`	`mickeyl`	`that's true. but it will pay off in the long run`
`00:51.58`	`mickeyl`	`at least i think so`
`00:52.11`	`Crofton\|home`	`yeah, but the dollar is worth abuot 0.01 euro these days ...`
`00:52.45`	`CoreDump`	>killall `ps ax\|grep evolu\|awk '{print $5}' \| grep -v grep`
`00:52.51`	`CoreDump`	`err`
`00:52.57`	`*** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@nl112-173-133.student.uu.se)`
`00:53.05`	`Crofton\|home`	`I talked to a friend about the 850MHz thing`
`00:53.16`	`Crofton\|home`	`He knows about this stuff :)`
`00:53.30`	`Crofton\|home`	`850 is the hardest band to cover, antenna wise`
`00:53.48`	`mickeyl`	`yeah.`
`00:53.51`	`*** join/#openmoko AlexJTanner (n=alex@68-187-80-127.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com)`
`00:54.05`	`Crofton\|home`	`lower frequency means larger antenna for smae performance`
`00:54.10`	`Crofton\|home`	`very roughly`
`00:54.28`	`mjr`	`'cause mine is taking 23 megs`
`00:55.08`	`Crofton\|home`	`and can speak to both EE's and CS sorts`
`00:57.00`	`mjr`	`it's been loading my local osm data for quite a while now`
`00:57.55`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`00:58.42`	`*** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-70-135-165-13.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net)`
`00:59.48`	`*** join/#openmoko dkenzior (n=dkenzior@203.94.178.46)`
`00:59.57`	`*** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@74-140-26-120.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`01:04.35`	`*** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1167863826.dsl.bell.ca)`
`01:07.30`	`*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net)`
`01:08.47`	`mjr`	`it does route though`
`01:09.53`	`mjr`	`Still I somehow think a native application would be nice. And perhaps some other solution for maps than on-demand loading from the net.`
`01:10.43`	`mjr`	`...as images`
`01:12.28`	`*** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net)`
`01:15.23`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy__ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`01:18.41`	`*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)`
`01:19.19`	`pjz`	`woo, gllin available`
`01:19.42`	`mjr`	`yes it is`
`01:19.49`	`*** join/#openmoko mohrr (n=mohrr@pool-71-178-27-51.washdc.fios.verizon.net)`
`01:20.32`	`*** part/#openmoko mohrr (n=mohrr@pool-71-178-27-51.washdc.fios.verizon.net)`
`01:31.21`	`*** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be)`
`01:32.59`	`mjr`	`Zoom enough out at www.openstreetmap.org, it shows the map of the world as a tiled strip in west-east direction, above and below it the stock images "...more OSM coming soon"`
`01:33.28`	`ewon`	`heh`
`01:34.55`	`*** join/#openmoko willie_ (n=willie@rd.tw.openmoko.org)`
`01:37.40`	`*** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-180-10-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`01:37.51`	`cesarb`	`I get away from the community for some time (due to too little free time), and precisely when I decide to check, gllin is out. Great timing :D`
`01:38.02`	`*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us)`
`01:38.29`	`*** join/#openmoko chode (n=chode@pD9E8A991.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`01:40.50`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z4d3f.z.pppool.de)`
`01:44.51`	`*** join/#openmoko xamindar_ (n=xamindar@c-67-174-253-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`01:45.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`balrog-kun: where are you?`
`01:45.27`	`balrog-kun`	`SpeedEvil: warsaw, poland`
`01:45.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`ah`
`01:45.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`consider that OSM is about 2 years old`
`01:45.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`and it's insanely good.`
`01:45.53`	`*** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@74-140-26-120.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`01:46.04`	`balrog-kun`	`yeah, i'm really quite surprised`
`01:46.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`in very few places is OSM suitable for general routing.`
`01:46.19`	`balrog-kun`	`i need to start filling in the bits too :/`
`01:47.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`I've done some 300km? of assorted roads.`
`01:48.15`	`mjr`	`Helsinki seems to be in pretty good shape actually, not much use for me unless I get a friend and drive around the neighbouring cities`
`01:48.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`balrog-kun: I don't know what mapping in poland was like - in the UK there are some public maps from 1940 that are PD and 'good enough' for assisting in ariel mapping.`
`01:48.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`not PD`
`01:48.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`copyright expired ratehr`
`01:48.59`	`balrog-kun`	`SpeedEvil: they are not digital i assume?`
`01:49.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`balrog-kun: no - but some nice person has scanned them.`
`01:49.21`	`balrog-kun`	`how do you make use of non-digital maps? you still need a gps, right?`
`01:49.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`balrog-kun: several ways.`
`01:49.34`	`mjr`	`there'd be some ground to cover in eastern Helsinki though still`
`01:49.53`	`balrog-kun`	`you just don't need to take pictures if you can take the street names off such a map, i guess?`
`01:49.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`balrog-kun: you have a GPS track, but don't remember the names of the towns that it goes through`
`01:50.32`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60-241-37-3.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`01:50.42`	`SpeedEvil`	`in practice, many areas have been extensively redeveloped since 1940. In some places street-level maps are still adequate though.`
`01:50.54`	`*** part/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60-241-37-3.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`01:51.19`	`balrog-kun`	`yeah, i guess adding you own knowledge of your city to that you can get accurate names`
`01:52.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`As an example, in Fife, Scotland http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=56.26952052399686&lon=-3.0971764347540627&zoom=10&layers=B000F000`
`01:53.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`I've added about 1200Km of roads and tracks from the NPE map.`
`01:53.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`these do not currently render in the main map view.`
`01:53.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`but are useful for hints for surveying. 'there might be a road here' and route planning`
`01:59.31`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`02:01.05`	`*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-121-220-151-142.sa.bigpond.net.au)`
`02:01.41`	`SpeedEvil`	`On other news. I hadn't realised how insanely tiny cameras have gotten.`
`02:01.58`	`SpeedEvil`	`ST have a reflowable 553mm VGA camera.`
`02:02.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`including lens.`
`02:02.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`Ok - it's not a great camera. But still.`
`02:02.38`	`mjr`	`no video?`
`02:02.43`	`mjr`	`I'll get me coat.`
`02:03.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`:)`
`02:05.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`is this a new ABI version?`
`02:05.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`is it functionally the same as the old one?`
`02:05.46`	`mjr`	`OABI`
`02:05.53`	`mwester-road`	`It's not a new ABI, I have no idea if its the same binary or not.`
`02:06.00`	`mjr`	`it carries the requisite libs with it`
`02:06.22`	`mwester-road`	`But the list of libs it installs is longer than the list on the wiki`
`02:06.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`md5 bf8ab4fda531bd00503a13ddfe2e2740?`
`02:06.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`for the binary alone?`
`02:06.53`	`mjr`	`match`
`02:07.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`it won't typically lock indoors`
`02:07.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`at least for me`
`02:07.26`	`ewon`	`the sirf-III does`
`02:07.33`	`ewon`	`I wonder how good the new gps chipset is`
`02:07.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`the neo I mean`
`02:07.48`	`mwester-road`	`I carried it to the restaurant earlier - 15 minute walk through the wind and snow. It wouldn't lock.`
`02:08.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`mwester-road: that should have IME.`
`02:08.12`	`mwester-road`	`And I'm finally warm again (I didn't take a winter coat on this trip), so I'm not going out again! :D`
`02:08.20`	`mwester-road`	`IME ?`
`02:08.29`	`mjr`	`initial fix for me in about 5 minutes after going outside, and into the bus`
`02:08.47`	`SpeedEvil`	`In My Experience`
`02:09.22`	`mjr`	`Kept fix nicely until went indoors for lunch, reacquired appropriately switly when exiting building`
`02:11.23`	`mjr`	`apparently takes a bit less than 2 megabytes of (resident) memory with the OABI libs`
`02:15.53`	`mjr`	`need to make a browser launcher that opens the local public transit route planner with source position from gps`
`02:16.03`	`ckuethe`	`ewon: the atmel/ublox antaris4 family is good...`
`02:28.17`	`roh`	`youre all having fun?`
`02:30.02`	`*** join/#openmoko twistx (n=no@64.30.190.171)`
`02:30.26`	`ljp`	`does it need a gps antenna?`
`02:30.51`	`mjr`	`it has one`
`02:30.56`	`roh`	`ckuethe the antaris should be even more sensitive when it comes to rf than sirfIII ;)`
`02:31.03`	`mjr`	`you can plug in an external one too`
`02:31.27`	`ckuethe`	`it is`
`02:31.29`	`roh`	`ljp there is an internal active antenna and a plug to connect an external one with 3V feed for the preamp/filter`
`02:31.34`	`ckuethe`	`the antaris is awesome`
`02:31.41`	`ckuethe`	`i have a couple of them already`
`02:32.01`	`roh`	`ckuethe do you know details about extra features of ubx compared to nmea mode? i haven't had the time to dive into that`
`02:32.06`	`ckuethe`	`yes`
`02:32.14`	`ckuethe`	`whaddya wanna know`
`02:32.33`	`roh`	`what can it do more or better`
`02:32.45`	`ckuethe`	`one of the major features (and something i take advantage of in gpsd) is the fact that you get a full PVT solution in a single message`
`02:32.49`	`ckuethe`	`nmea can't do that`
`02:33.19`	`ckuethe`	`you can get raw data (pseudorange, etc) for postprocessing .... nmea can do that, with proprietary messages`
`02:34.58`	`roh`	`is it also used to upload agps assistance data fetched from http for example to the ublox? or is that another extra protocol?`
`02:35.04`	`ckuethe`	`yes you can do that`
`02:35.12`	`*** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@87.175.235.167)`
`02:35.29`	`ckuethe`	`that's the "AID" message class`
`02:36.12`	`*** join/#openmoko drath (i=vmaster@p5B07F114.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:36.41`	`*** join/#openmoko ixs (n=andreas@lacht.ueber.gattinnen-im-netz.de)`
`02:37.32`	`roh`	`ckuethe did you test the combination of gllin as released with gps on the moko?`
`02:38.10`	`ckuethe`	`no. my moko is sitting under my desk at home`
`02:38.20`	`ckuethe`	`rogers runs 850MHz in edmonton :(`
`02:38.46`	`ckuethe`	`so i've had no motivation to work on it`
`02:38.50`	`Writchie`	`ckuethe: do you know if all of the information is there in the proprietary protocol to be able to do fake NMEA and RTCM ports from a single connection to the module using UBX binary protocol`
`02:39.05`	`ckuethe`	`yep`
`02:39.06`	`ckuethe`	`use gpsd`
`02:39.23`	`ckuethe`	`dunno about RTCM`
`02:39.35`	`ckuethe`	`i've never bothered to try`
`02:39.36`	`Writchie`	`it looks like it has WAAS also`
`02:39.53`	`Writchie`	`WAAS plus DGPS might be interesting`
`02:39.55`	`ckuethe`	`yes, you can track up to 3 SBAS PRN's`
`02:40.15`	`ckuethe`	`"The ANTARIS GPS Technology supports RTCM version 2.2 Correction Type Messages 1, 2, 3 and 9. "`
`02:40.31`	`Writchie`	`but we have only one serial interface connected.`
`02:40.37`	`ckuethe`	`so you could configure the gps to accept input RTCM,NMEA,UBX on one interface`
`02:40.44`	`Writchie`	`ah`
`02:41.03`	`ckuethe`	`you can run multiple protocols on one port, and the same protocol on multiple ports`
`02:41.08`	`ckuethe`	`much better than SiRF`
`02:41.56`	`Writchie`	`i haven't looked at gpsd but I was thinking that it would be nice to have both NMEA ports and RTCM ports in userland`
`02:42.16`	`ckuethe`	`you won't get RTCM out of the receiver`
`02:42.18`	`mjr`	`Turns out interfacing to the pubtransport route planner with coordinates wasn't such a straightforward thing I hoped. Asked them about it; their FAQ tells how to create own links for spesific street names and such so they might even be co-operative`
`02:42.33`	`ckuethe`	`but if you connect to the gpsd control socket, you can send arbitrary data to the receiver`
`02:42.40`	`Writchie`	`no AFAIK its an input to the receiver`
`02:42.51`	`roh`	`ckuethe does gpsd require a real serial as input or should it eat that named pipe gllin uses without change?`
`02:43.13`	`mjr`	`(_or_ I'll have to search OSM for the nearest street name and give that...)`
`02:43.29`	`ckuethe`	`gpsd can eat data from pretty much any unix output method (pipe, file, pty, tty, ...)`
`02:43.40`	`*** join/#openmoko twistx (n=no@64.30.190.171)`
`02:43.46`	`roh`	`so it should be only config wirk`
`02:43.49`	`mjr`	`yah, at least for me it seems to eat it fine, though I haven't had fixes while testing`
`02:43.51`	`roh`	`eh work`
`02:44.19`	`mjr`	`just ipkg install gpsd, and edit /etc/default/gpsd to give the proper pipe`
`02:44.33`	`ckuethe`	`yeah, that'll work... use gpsd -n though`
`02:44.48`	`mwester-road`	`didn't work for me, but then I can't get a fix here anyway.`
`02:44.58`	`ckuethe`	`unless gllin doesn't mind the pipe being opened and closed all the time`
`02:45.13`	`mjr`	`ckuethe, ack`
`02:45.18`	`mwester-road`	`That might be the problem; gllin seems to exit if there's nothing eating the data.`
`02:45.42`	`mjr`	`doesn't seem to mind here`
`02:46.02`	`Writchie`	`ckuethe: you a ucalgary guy?`
`02:46.14`	`mjr`	`ckuethe, I presume if I get stuff out from gpspipe -r it means it's gone through gpsd properly :]`
`02:46.17`	`mwester-road`	`Maybe if I leave that "gz" bit there to eat data from the pipe...`
`02:47.22`	`ckuethe`	`Writchie: ualberta, soon to be google`
`02:47.29`	`ckuethe`	`mjr: yep`
`02:51.01`	`*** join/#openmoko chode_ (n=chode@pD9E8AA8C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
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`03:02.49`	`Writchie`	`Verizon announced it is scrapping CMDA path and switching to LTE (GSM family) in a a few years.`
`03:03.23`	`Writchie`	`so US will finally join the ROTW`
`03:03.24`	`anrp`	`?? where`
`03:03.29`	`Writchie`	`US`
`03:03.38`	`anrp`	`no, [citation required] where :p`
`03:03.53`	`Writchie`	`http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9826437-37.html?tag=nefd.blgs`
`03:05.11`	`anrp`	`thats.. uh .. pretty amazing`
`03:05.21`	`anrp`	`who replaced the board of verizon with robots?`
`03:05.56`	`Writchie`	`vodafone`
`03:06.20`	`Writchie`	`bell-shaped heads must be finalling retiring`
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`03:46.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`What's the USB network device module on the PC side called?`
`03:48.13`	`mmontour`	`looks like "usbnet" and "cdc_ether"`
`03:48.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`ah yes, thanks`
`03:48.38`	`xzcvczx`	`nnpiggy: hey`
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`04:00.25`	`xaid`	`ckuethe: no luck still with your phone in edmonton? that cell tower map showing the Rogers 1900 Mhz map is not accurate? :\|`
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`04:08.24`	`ckuethe`	`haven't tried in a while but the last few times it wasn't working near any of the places i frequent`
`04:11.20`	`xaid`	`thats too bad. i thought that it would work fine in the city but get bad receiption outside the city`
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`04:18.07`	`ckuethe`	`i'm just saying that it seems like all the places i go, they run 850`
`04:18.17`	`ckuethe`	`that may not be strictly true`
`04:18.21`	`ckuethe`	`but that's how it seems`
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`04:26.11`	`Writchie`	`IIRC fido had pretty good 1900 coverage in your neck of the woods and Rogers is mostly 850`
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`04:26.53`	`Writchie`	`AT&T in the US and Rogers in Canada just aren't going to have decent coverage without 850`
`04:27.28`	`Writchie`	`t-mobile and fido should be mostly OK except that you need to roam into 850's where their coverage is poor`
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`05:14.04`	`xaid`	`i guess that means i'll just have to wait for the 850 version of the Neo :)`
`05:18.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`Nice!`
`05:18.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`oops`
`05:22.17`	`*** join/#openmoko osmosis (n=steven@63.139.86.3)`
`05:31.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1047 has been created by john_lee(AT)openmoko.com`
`05:31.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * Require OE snapshots for different monotone version`
`05:31.03`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1047`
`05:39.00`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1048 has been created by john_lee(AT)openmoko.com`
`05:39.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * Automatic pulling and building`
`05:39.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1048`
`05:42.45`	`CIA-14`	`03john_lee * r3536 10/developers/john_lee/ (15 files in 5 dirs):`
`05:42.45`	`CIA-14`	`The initial version of openmoko toolkit`
`05:42.45`	`CIA-14`	`must be used with openmoko toolchain.`
`05:43.02`	`CM`	`Nice`
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`06:04.44`	`xzcvczx`	`CM: just rather`
`06:09.04`	`CM`	`Hehe, well, at least something is happening...`
`06:12.10`	`*** join/#openmoko twistx (n=no@64.30.190.171)`
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`06:56.43`	`Batalyx`	`Would anyone like to remind me, where I could get the latest and greatest development images? (I still haven't got a new computer that could manage to compile them... )`
`06:57.42`	`*** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
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`07:00.31`	`mmontour`	`Batalyx: try http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/`
`07:00.52`	`CM`	`Yes, get ScaredyCat's images :)`
`07:01.22`	`*** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx)`
`07:01.25`	`CM`	`Batalyx: But an official new snapshot will be out "soon" (tm) ;)`
`07:02.30`	`*** join/#openmoko kW (i=kwkw@gateway/tor/x-6d854af7640274a3)`
`07:03.07`	`Batalyx`	`thanks. I suppose "soon" is not "in half an hour"? :)`
`07:04.04`	`CM`	`Nah, but I hope just a few more days :)`
`07:04.26`	`mmontour`	`"soon" in the OpenMoko world can mean several months :) (gllin, I'm looking in your direction)`
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`07:24.42`	`xzcvczx`	`mmontour: gllin seems to be movin now`
`07:29.20`	`mmontour`	`xzcvczx: I know, I'm doing some testing with gllin right now (finally!).`
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`07:37.24`	`CM`	`jollen: Nice blog you have! jserv--'s too. Google does an ok job translating it to english ;)`
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`07:39.50`	`njs`	`my ericsson just died. it has no sense of timing :-( couldn't it have waited a few months...?`
`07:40.57`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net)`
`07:42.15`	`njs`	`just to verify what I think the web site is saying: it's something like a minimum of 3 months, probably more like 6, before we can hope to see US-usable Neo hardware?`
`07:42.33`	`CM`	`I'm afraid that's the best guess`
`07:42.57`	`CM`	`OpenMoko haven't said anything offically about the 850MHz thing as far as I know`
`07:43.52`	`CM`	`njs: Latest said is probably this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#850_MHz_band_not_supported_in_USA.2BCanada_.28e.g._comment_24_on_bug_.23256.29`
`07:44.43`	`*** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-79-14.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`07:47.35`	`njs`	`CM: yeah, that's what I'm going off of`
`07:47.41`	`njs`	`sigh, woe is me, etc.`
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`07:50.17`	`hairulfr`	`Just as a point of interest: How is the project coming along? (hopeful buyer here)`
`07:51.20`	`CM`	`hairulfr: Pretty good I think`
`07:51.45`	`CM`	`Was a bit of a stand-still during september-october, but now there's a lot of progress`
`07:52.22`	`CM`	`hairulfr: Yesterday the gllin binary driver to the GPS in gta01 was finally released`
`07:52.32`	`hairulfr`	`Cool :)`
`07:52.44`	`CM`	`Also, the wlan driver for gta02 worked for the first time yesterday`
`07:52.45`	`hairulfr`	`CM: Glim gllin...????`
`07:52.56`	`CM`	`GL = Global Locate`
`07:53.03`	`hairulfr`	`The tech stuff I no nothing about :)`
`07:53.08`	`CM`	`The name of the gps "driver"`
`07:53.34`	`hairulfr`	`But, well, just waiting for it to become "usable", really really looking forward to it :) This is what I've been wishing for for ages`
`07:53.50`	`CVirus`	`CM: I see stuff improving at a high rate these days ... Can we expect the GTA02 to be ready by December ?`
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`07:58.17`	`*** join/#openmoko ruxpin (n=mikael@Catalyst-53.pspt.fi)`
`07:58.37`	`Hopscotch`	`good morning`
`08:00.20`	`CM`	`CVirus: I can imagine that.. :(`
`08:01.25`	`CM`	`CVirus: But that sameo got the wlan driver working yesterday is very good news I think. Just hope GTA02v5 will be the final version`
`08:01.53`	`CVirus`	`CM: is it even out for the devs yet ?`
`08:03.06`	`CM`	`Some devs have a v4, but I don't think it's many`
`08:03.33`	`CM`	`Internal OM devs that is, no P0 for gta02 yet`
`08:03.44`	`*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Maab5.m.pppool.de)`
`08:04.28`	`Batalyx`	`what? gps-driver? for GTA01? is it christmas already? :)`
`08:05.20`	`CM`	`Batalyx: Yes, look at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-November/011916.html`
`08:05.43`	`*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125)`
`08:06.02`	`Batalyx`	`just noticed! been busy for a while, and this is just great news!`
`08:06.16`	`CM`	`Sure is :)`
`08:08.09`	`*** join/#openmoko zoolooc (n=lucian@p549529CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
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`08:10.38`	`*** join/#openmoko leila (n=leila@s55915244.adsl.wanadoo.nl)`
`08:17.55`	`mbuf`	`when i scp files to neo target, I get "make: *** Error 1" - even though the file gets copied, why is that?`
`08:19.43`	`*** join/#openmoko Dwight (n=chatzill@vc-196-207-32-222.3g.vodacom.co.za)`
`08:19.48`	`CM`	`Never gotten that. Not a full rootfs?`
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`08:20.02`	`Dwight2`	`Hi guys`
`08:20.41`	`mbuf`	`CM, /etc/version is 200709172031; what is meant by "full rootfs"?`
`08:21.08`	`Dwight2`	`Can anyone see me ?`
`08:21.35`	`kimnotyze`	`Dwight2: yes`
`08:21.49`	`mbuf`	`Dwight2, WYSIWYG? yes`
`08:22.08`	`Dwight2`	`ok great - I am a newbie so sorry wasnt sure if this irc client was working`
`08:22.31`	`mbuf`	`Dwight2, welcome`
`08:24.42`	`*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)`
`08:24.48`	`CM`	`mbuf: I meant if the nand flash was full :)`
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`08:30.55`	`*** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org)`
`08:39.13`	`Dwight2`	`The people who provide support here - are they all volunteurs or you guys working for FIC / Openmoko`
`08:42.37`	`*** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi)`
`08:44.09`	`kimnotyze`	`Dwight2: most of them (like me) are volunteurs`
`08:45.28`	`Dwight2`	`ah ok - well my thanks to you guys as I hope next year to get the Neo and will need help - thereafter I hope I will be able to contribute to the community tho I'm a Junior Oracle Developer - will have to get the C text books out and start reading up - where is everyone located ?`
`08:46.48`	`*** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@p3EE2C661.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:47.20`	`josch`	`Dwight2, australia, teiwan, germany, poland, netherland, US, sweden, UK, france...`
`08:48.07`	`NineX`	`Dwight2: and many other countries`
`08:48.09`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net)`
`08:48.45`	`Basheri`	`Finland \o/`
`08:50.20`	`fgau`	`bavaria ;) <-- josch`
`08:50.31`	`*** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@brusc.guerrier.info)`
`08:50.35`	`josch`	`fgau, ^^`
`08:50.42`	`ScaredyCat`	`XorA\|gone: ping`
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`09:02.25`	`CVirus`	`Who is in charge instead of Welte ?`
`09:02.41`	`*** join/#openmoko p3t3r (n=chatzill@uk-s9.uni-kiel.de)`
`09:02.50`	`*** join/#openmoko johncylee (n=john@rd.tw.openmoko.org)`
`09:04.10`	`CM`	`CVirus: For that part of the development? No one yet, afaik`
`09:04.42`	`CVirus`	`why not ?`
`09:04.50`	`*** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be)`
`09:05.05`	`CM`	`Well, I guess he's not that easy to replace ;)`
`09:05.25`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Is OpenMoko still on track for a Dec/Jan release of "consumer-ready"? hasn't been paying attention`
`09:06.00`	`CM`	`Q_Contoxicated: Probably not in December, but no more news than that lately..`
`09:06.47`	`CM`	`Q_Contoxicated: The wlan driver for gta02 is working now though :)`
`09:07.00`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Good.`
`09:07.20`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I hope to procure one by Feb, my Treo650 doesn't sync quite as well with Ubuntu as I hoped :-/`
`09:07.34`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Haven't tried since I switched from Thunderbird-->Evolution, though.`
`09:07.43`	`CM`	`I hope I can have one earlier than that too :)`
`09:08.06`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Well, at current pace...I'll be getting a call in 1-3 weeks offering me back to contract again at previous place of employment`
`09:08.21`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`meaning by Feb I should have $$$ for one...gonna be back at the $450/600 price I presume?`
`09:09.09`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I had a thought on that, a few weeks ago. If I buy the $450 package, and later want the "dev-kit" options, is there an option for that yet? To pick up the "extra" pieces? Or am I SOL?`
`09:09.24`	`mbuf`	`when installing test applications on the Neo, where do you recommend we dump the .ipks?`
`09:09.40`	`CM`	`I don't know why the debugboard isn't sold separately`
`09:09.51`	`CM`	`Maybe it will be when GTA02 is released.`
`09:09.51`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`At this point you're a dev or you're a user.`
`09:09.58`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I hope they later allow for the 'upgrade'`
`09:10.02`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`even if at an extra cost`
`09:10.03`	`CM`	`Q_Contoxicated: It's very unlikely that you'll need a debugboard though`
`09:10.09`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`True`
`09:10.21`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`that's really the main piece with the dev-kit, isn't it?`
`09:10.24`	`CM`	`It's really only if you mess up your u-boot`
`09:10.29`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Hmmmm.`
`09:10.53`	`CM`	`Yes, and a cable and torx 6 and extra battery I think, + the box`
`09:10.55`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I'm imaging a way to "ghost" (image) the phone. That way, devs don't need an extra debugboard.`
`09:11.07`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`They "image" their working setup`
`09:11.07`	`mbuf`	`CM, full NAND flash: /tmp is 0% use, so there is enough space`
`09:11.33`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`then "ghost" in their new test image, able to restore to their backup image of a "normal, working" system once done with dev/testing work.`
`09:11.38`	`CM`	`mbuf: I usually put stuff on the sd, /media/card/`
`09:11.53`	`CM`	`Q_Contoxicated: You can do that already, easily`
`09:11.54`	`mbuf`	`CM, i see`
`09:12.12`	`CM`	`Q_Contoxicated: But if you flash over uboot, you're out.. ;)`
`09:12.46`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I can't program/code to save my life.`
`09:13.50`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I'm an IT hardware-monkey/tech/grunt and planner/project-designer etc`
`09:14.06`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`mostly the former, aspire to the latter (mostly)`
`09:14.10`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`sometimes I get to swap hats :D`
`09:14.30`	`Dwight2`	`is it possible to flash over the uboot - and if you do how do you recover from it ?`
`09:15.43`	`mbuf`	`if I manually use, "scp /tmp/foo root@neo:/tmp" it doesn't cause any error; if i use it in a Makefile target, it exits with "make: *** Error 1" - weird`
`09:15.46`	`CM`	`Dwight2: If you flash over u-boot, you have a brick`
`09:15.59`	`CM`	`And you need a debugboard with jtag to recover`
`09:16.09`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`u-boot = grub?`
`09:16.18`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`or similar?`
`09:16.25`	`Dwight2`	`no way to recover from that ? do you connect the debugboard to the phone to recover?`
`09:16.35`	`mbuf`	`but return status is 1, make target expects return status as 0`
`09:16.40`	`NineX`	`Q_Contoxicated: u-boot is a bootloader`
`09:17.26`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`so, like grub or lilo`
`09:17.41`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`trying to understand the process, having not looked at it previously`
`09:18.26`	`josch`	`Q_Contoxicated, yeah - it's similar to apps like grup or lilo`
`09:18.31`	`leila`	`Q_Contoxicated, as far as i understand it is a form of linux running on the neo, that includes the bootloader to actually locate and start the kernel`
`09:18.38`	`NineX`	`damn openembedded snapshot - EO-this-is-for-mtn-0.36.mtn.bz2 are fuvkred up md5 sum isn't correct :S`
`09:18.47`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Ok`
`09:18.51`	`Dwight2`	`no way to recover from that ? do you connect the debugboard to the phone to recover?`
`09:19.01`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Same thing, then. Just for that arch/hardware etc.`
`09:19.24`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`No way to rebuild/reinstall a bootloader without a debugboard? Damn. That should get fixed.`
`09:19.31`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`That's a serious problem.`
`09:19.32`	`NineX`	`Dwight2: if you destroy u-boot , you can only reflash your phone only by using debugboard`
`09:19.55`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`End-user downloads random pre-built image, loads onto phone, bricks phone...gets pissed at OpenMoko.`
`09:20.06`	`Dwight2`	`< makes a note to make friends with someone who owns a debug board near me BEFORE I buy the neo`
`09:20.11`	`leila`	`Q_Contoxicated, by the looks of the discussion it seems similair to frying bootroms :)`
`09:20.32`	`NineX`	`Q_Contoxicated: if normal user will read seriously documentation will se that flashing process is delicate`
`09:20.49`	`*** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au)`
`09:21.01`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`NineX, you're trusting a user. First mistake. :D`
`09:21.04`	`leila`	`why would an enduser "flash" ?`
`09:21.04`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`lol`
`09:21.13`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`ALWAYS provide a recovery solution.`
`09:21.18`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`even if it requires a full wipe.`
`09:21.25`	`Dwight2`	`I think we need to get a list running of those who own debug boards and their locations :)`
`09:21.31`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Sending in for repair = fail`
`09:22.19`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I don't see a need for post-general-release of me spending an extra $150 for a debug board.`
`09:22.23`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I don't plan on getting one.`
`09:22.45`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I hope there's a recovery solution, I plan on futzing with it. I want it to work awesome. I remember the Palm Pilot rocking.`
`09:23.00`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Now that I'm on Linux, it doesn't work so well.`
`09:23.09`	`NineX`	`Q_Contoxicated: it's your problem , i was buyed neoadvanced cause 2x batteries 2x memo cartd and most important debugboard`
`09:23.34`	`*** join/#openmoko lukhas (n=lucas@rincevent.net)`
`09:23.34`	`lukhas`	`hello`
`09:23.34`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`?`
`09:24.24`	`lukhas`	`is there a "python+gtk for openmoko" crash course available somewhere ?`
`09:24.50`	`lukhas`	`I suck big time at designing interfaces, especially when the screen is so small`
`09:25.15`	`NineX`	`hmm but idea with rescue sollution is easy to implement in hardwaree: some small read only part of memory with special program that can provide reflash possibility when ubot is fucked up`
`09:25.34`	`*** join/#openmoko miha (n=miha@82.78.149.197)`
`09:25.51`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I like the idea of a crash-course in GUI-design`
`09:25.51`	`NineX`	`/s/ubot/u-boot/`
`09:26.38`	`CVirus`	`sorry .. was testing dcop`
`09:26.42`	`lukhas`	`the pygtk howto is nice for the code, but not for the design`
`09:26.46`	`leila`	`speaking of small, what reso will the screen be ?`
`09:27.00`	`Dwight2`	`I know I will get shot for saying this - but am using a nokia gprs phone via usb to a windows notebook to access internet - I hope that a similar facility will be considered to allow a pc to use the neo as a gprs/3g modem in the future`
`09:27.21`	`miha`	`has anyone received the error "Could not initialize SDL - exiting" when running OpenMoko under QEMU?`
`09:27.27`	`NineX`	`Dwight2: i think that is not a problem`
`09:28.13`	`*** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net)`
`09:28.14`	`*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)`
`09:28.16`	`Dwight2`	`ninex you saying it will be catered for / is catered for ( even with windows )`
`09:28.47`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Phone-as-modem? I hope so.`
`09:28.51`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`It's fast becoming an option.`
`09:30.09`	`*** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236)`
`09:31.03`	`miha`	`"Could not initialize SDL - exiting", when starting openomoko under QEMU`
`09:31.16`	`miha`	`anyone know how to fix this?`
`09:32.19`	`leila`	`not a clue lol`
`09:32.32`	`miha`	`ok then lol`
`09:34.14`	`*** join/#openmoko tick (n=tick@rd.tw.openmoko.org)`
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`09:47.21`	`*** part/#openmoko njs (n=njs@frances.vorpus.org)`
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`09:53.50`	`*** join/#openmoko Atul (n=Atul@202.63.103.2)`
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`10:03.59`	`cosmin`	`is anyone having trouble when building module-init-tools-cross with mokomakefile?`
`10:04.56`	`*** join/#openmoko tobmaster (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com)`
`10:05.16`	`*** join/#openmoko Mononoke (n=social@86.110.226.21)`
`10:05.20`	`*** join/#openmoko readon (n=readon@218.194.60.208)`
`10:05.37`	`*** part/#openmoko g0m31 (n=gomez@p57B5609C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:05.52`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
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`10:11.44`	`*** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net)`
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`10:20.20`	`*** join/#openmoko reppel (n=reppel@213-140-11-128.fastres.net)`
`10:20.37`	`*** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=TAsn@82.166.201.246)`
`10:23.05`	`*** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@161.53.174.101)`
`10:24.04`	`*** join/#openmoko Dwight2 (n=chatzill@vc-196-207-32-224.3g.vodacom.co.za)`
`10:24.44`	`Dwight2`	`hi`
`10:24.58`	`*** join/#openmoko Elessar_81 (n=Andreas@p5B059EAC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:25.54`	`Dwight2`	`anyone here?`
`10:26.41`	`*** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-252-023.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`10:27.44`	`zedstar`	`nobody but us chickens :)`
`10:28.28`	`Dwight2`	`lol`
`10:31.44`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`and the drinkers. heh.`
`10:32.00`	`Dwight2`	`how many here have a neo at the moment?`
`10:32.25`	`*** join/#openmoko magumbade (n=magumbad@p5497D84A.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:34.59`	`zedstar`	`must be a couple of thousand sold?`
`10:35.40`	`ScaredyCat`	`naaa, there's only one and we share it ;)`
`10:36.01`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`lol`
`10:36.10`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Worlds biggest timeshare...?`
`10:36.13`	`Dwight2`	`hey scaredycat - your one of the developers are you not ?`
`10:36.21`	`CM`	`I think there were only ~2000 Neos produced of the GTA01 version`
`10:36.39`	`CM`	`At least 1000 in the first batch were sold out very quickly`
`10:36.43`	`*** join/#openmoko SP-8472_ (i=8472@dslb-084-057-247-104.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`10:36.57`	`CM`	`Might have been 2000 produced or so in the second, I don't know`
`10:37.12`	`*** join/#openmoko Hicks (n=hickscor@lns-bzn-32-82-254-39-128.adsl.proxad.net)`
`10:37.35`	`CM`	`Q_Contoxicated: You don't have to be a programmer to have one :-)`
`10:38.09`	`ScaredyCat`	`I'm a developer, not one of the developers though`
`10:38.11`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Yeah, but how else would I use it? :P`
`10:38.14`	`*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (i=marex@troja167.fjfi.cvut.cz)`
`10:38.32`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`I'll wait til it can make phone calls - then I'll get one. lol`
`10:38.35`	`Dwight2`	`scaredycat - I thought you one of the design/ development team`
`10:38.39`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`and I have monies. sighs`
`10:38.48`	`ScaredyCat`	`naaa... I just have a big mouth ;)`
`10:38.59`	`Xx13`	`CM: numbers on 'P1 Owners' page are up to 7k, woudn't that mean 7k Neos delivered?`
`10:39.12`	`Dwight2`	`well if you are I just wanted to say thanks`
`10:39.15`	`Hicks`	`Hi all ^^`
`10:39.43`	`CM`	`Xx13: No, that's tickets for all issues`
`10:39.45`	`mjr`	`the numbers started at what, some 1900?`
`10:39.57`	`CM`	`Yes, 1881 I think`
`10:40.05`	`CM`	`I was 1882.. :P`
`10:40.13`	`CM`	`ScaredyCat: lol`
`10:40.43`	`ScaredyCat`	`you were 1821 CM`
`10:40.49`	`ScaredyCat`	`not 1882`
`10:40.57`	`*** join/#openmoko jeffdameth (n=jeff@wlan-client-302.informatik.uni-bremen.de)`
`10:41.05`	`CM`	`Heh, ok, Missed a few digits %)`
`10:41.08`	`ScaredyCat`	`not that I was monitoring or anything ..`
`10:41.22`	`CM`	`1821 does sound better..`
`10:41.23`	`*** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-169-045.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`10:41.32`	`Mononoke`	`big brother is watching you CM`
`10:41.46`	`*** join/#openmoko SP-8472__ (i=8472@dslb-084-056-245-049.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`10:41.46`	`ScaredyCat`	`did Mononokejust call me fat?`
`10:41.54`	`Dwight2`	`scaredycat will i get kicked if i ask about future plans for a 3g/hsdpa hardware future ?`
`10:42.02`	`ScaredyCat`	`CM: tell em I want my V8`
`10:42.17`	`CM`	`ScaredyCat: Hehe, I'll place an order for that`
`10:42.19`	`ScaredyCat`	`no, Dwight2, there's very little kicking in here`
`10:42.23`	`mjr`	`Dwight2, no, but you won't get much useful answers`
`10:42.27`	`CM`	`Just fishing`
`10:42.32`	`CM`	`~fish Dwight2`
`10:42.33`	`apt`	`ACTION slaps Dwight2 around with a large trout`
`10:42.33`	`Dwight2`	`hmmm`
`10:42.37`	`ScaredyCat`	`lol`
`10:42.37`	`CM`	`:D`
`10:42.45`	`Dwight2`	`thanks apt ;)`
`10:43.01`	`ScaredyCat`	`apt: botsnack`
`10:43.01`	`apt`	`aw, gee, ScaredyCat`
`10:43.22`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy__ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`10:43.26`	`CM`	`Dwight2: FIC/OM is very quiet about future plans..`
`10:43.49`	`mjr`	`And by the way, the neo can already (manually) give you routing to gprs over usb. Though I don't know if Neo's usb networking works with windows`
`10:44.05`	`Mononoke`	`CM: because you can't just tell people : and now we'll take over the world`
`10:44.10`	`Mononoke`	`that won't work`
`10:44.18`	`CM`	`Hehe`
`10:44.26`	`*** join/#openmoko Atul_ (n=Atul@202.63.103.2)`
`10:45.20`	`Dwight2`	`one point I think is a flaw - I personally think a stylus standard should be adopted and a place to insert a stylus on the Neo should be standard on the hardware`
`10:45.29`	`*** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`10:46.40`	`Hicks`	`Why not doing like the Nintendo DS? A little ring to place on the thumb, which is rounded`
`10:46.44`	`*** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-252-024.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`10:47.03`	`ScaredyCat`	`yes, the stylus doesn't need to be massive, just look at the Nokia 770 stylus, small flat...`
`10:47.43`	`cjb_ie`	`what about tethered, unlosable styluses :-)`
`10:47.58`	`Hicks`	`look here`
`10:47.58`	`Hicks`	`http://www.jeuxvideo.fr/les-accessoires-ds-lite-bigben-mis-a-nu-article-36052-1.html`
`10:48.02`	`cjb_ie`	`i'm sure a wired one would open up interesting possibilities too`
`10:48.10`	`Hicks`	`search for this text "- Les deux bagues pouces"`
`10:48.31`	`ScaredyCat`	`or one of those finger pointy things...`
`10:48.46`	`Hicks`	`yes`
`10:48.47`	`ScaredyCat`	`or you could sharpen your fingers...`
`10:48.53`	`Hicks`	`lol`
`10:49.20`	`Hicks`	`well a finger ring is very handy i think, because it can be attached to the PDA wire without looking bad.`
`10:49.44`	`Hicks`	`Or just put a webcam in it, which knows where the user looks ;)`
`10:50.05`	`Hicks`	`Blink eye = click, epilepsy = double click ^^`
`10:50.56`	`ScaredyCat`	`surely, left blink = left click, right blink = right click, both blink = double click...`
`10:51.19`	`Hicks`	`:D`
`10:51.42`	`Hicks`	`People may i ask you just a little question`
`10:51.45`	`*** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-242-001.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`10:51.55`	`ScaredyCat`	`then you could scroll up and down by moving your tongue`
`10:51.56`	`CM`	`~ask`
`10:51.57`	`apt`	`Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.`
`10:52.05`	`CM`	`;)`
`10:52.16`	`Hicks`	`dang is APT a real user?`
`10:52.24`	`ScaredyCat`	`~apt`
`10:52.24`	`apt`	`i heard apt is the really annoying bot.`
`10:52.30`	`Hicks`	`lol`
`10:52.36`	`CM`	`~curse ScaredyCat`
`10:52.36`	`apt`	`May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ScaredyCat !`
`10:52.40`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Really annoying, HOT bot.`
`10:52.41`	`Hicks`	`apt get remove --purge apt =/`
`10:52.41`	`apt`	`ACTION fetches remove --purge apt =/`
`10:52.41`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`:P`
`10:52.45`	`Hicks`	`lol`
`10:52.45`	`ScaredyCat`	`Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo`
`10:52.50`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`HAHA`
`10:52.51`	`CM`	`Hehe`
`10:53.10`	`cjb_ie`	`voluntarily or against our will... what other possible reasons are there?`
`10:53.14`	`cjb_ie`	`semi-voluntarily?`
`10:53.22`	`zash`	`apt get moo`
`10:53.23`	`apt`	`ACTION fetches moo`
`10:53.23`	`ScaredyCat`	`semi-willy`
`10:53.28`	`Hicks`	`so my question is, i'm actually downloading precompiled rootdfs / kern images here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973 is there a more "up to date" place?`
`10:53.28`	`Q_Contoxicated`	`Random luck of fate?`
`10:53.54`	`ScaredyCat`	`Hicks: depends when the date of that image is :)`
`10:54.02`	`Hicks`	`ermm random luck of fate is a paradox, if you're talking about fate, there is no such thing luck or bad luck, and no such thing RANDOM :D`
`10:54.12`	`Hicks`	`there is only one image here`
`10:54.15`	`Hicks`	`21 nov`
`10:54.25`	`ScaredyCat`	`that's just the official repo.`
`10:54.36`	`Hicks`	`Joachim told me to get it here, i'm not sure if there are other binary repos, with snapshots for instance?`
`10:54.40`	`Hicks`	`okay`
`10:55.01`	`Hicks`	`so if i want to check daily if new binaries cames out, where am i supposed to check?`
`10:55.37`	`ScaredyCat`	`depends if you only want official images...`
`10:55.58`	`ScaredyCat`	`if you only want official ones, just ipkg update && ipkg upgrade`
`10:56.02`	`Hicks`	`no no i dont care, we need to see the progress of the system, and test :)`
`10:56.16`	`Hicks`	`that's what i do already, but maybe there are binary snapshots?`
`10:56.28`	`ScaredyCat`	`http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/`
`10:57.01`	`Hicks`	`heeew wonderfull`
`10:57.16`	`Hicks`	`thanks a lot ScaredyCat`
`10:57.18`	`ScaredyCat`	`my images have ipkg configs that include my repo.. and I build pretty regularly`
`10:57.29`	`*** join/#openmoko ruxpin (n=mikael@Catalyst-53.pspt.fi)`
`10:57.33`	`Hicks`	`"your" images?`
`10:57.39`	`Hicks`	`Do you have a server address?`
`10:57.44`	`ScaredyCat`	`that's my url`
`10:57.55`	`Hicks`	`ooh ok i wasnt aware`
`10:57.59`	`Hicks`	`cool`
`10:58.00`	`ScaredyCat`	`http://buildhost.automated.it/ <---------------`
`10:58.08`	`*** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@140.77.128.140)`
`10:58.32`	`Hicks`	`just another question... Talking about QTopia HERE... Is it controversial? Do i risk slapping because talking about something "taboo"?`
`10:58.42`	`ScaredyCat`	`there are other repos too.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories`
`10:58.52`	`Hicks`	`<PROTECTED>`
`10:58.55`	`Hicks`	`oops sorry`
`10:58.57`	`ScaredyCat`	`well, you'd be better off in #qtopia`
`10:59.07`	`Hicks`	`yes thanks for this list`
`10:59.09`	`Hicks`	`hmm ok :)`
`10:59.30`	`ScaredyCat`	`but I don;t think anyone is really too bothered about talking about it...`
`10:59.40`	`ScaredyCat`	`(in here)`
`10:59.43`	`Hicks`	`wow your repos rox man`
`10:59.49`	`Hicks`	`okay :)`
`11:00.09`	`Hicks`	`well thanks for your answers ScaredyCat`
`11:00.20`	`Hicks`	`i'll stay on the chan, talk later :)`
`11:00.25`	`ScaredyCat`	`my work here is done...`
`11:00.40`	`Hicks`	`:d`
`11:01.26`	`Hicks`	`mjr sorry i didnt understand the previous`
`11:01.32`	`mjr`	`Hicks, nm`
`11:01.36`	`Hicks`	`Bon appetit MJR :)`
`11:01.46`	`mjr`	`just don't be a moron :]`
`11:01.58`	`Hicks`	`yes you neither ^^`
`11:01.59`	`rwhitby`	`Time to change mokomakefile to the new OM server ...`
`11:09.22`	`*** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@newhost71-068.imm.dtu.dk)`
`11:09.33`	`Hicks`	`oO`
`11:10.03`	`*** part/#openmoko Elessar_81 (n=Andreas@p5B059EAC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`11:10.48`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`11:11.21`	`*** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-113-3.sa.bigpond.net.au)`
`11:11.40`	`*** part/#openmoko Hicks (n=hickscor@lns-bzn-32-82-254-39-128.adsl.proxad.net)`
`11:11.42`	`*** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-12026.bb.online.no)`
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`11:14.52`	`*** join/#openmoko Keneo (n=jens@86-39-0-112.customer.fulladsl.be)`
`11:17.35`	`*** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org)`
`11:22.16`	`CIA-14`	`03rwhitby * r167 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Updated MokoMakefile to use the new OpenMoko monotone server`
`11:22.20`	`jeffdameth`	`hello. are binary packages available for the base system or does one have to build the whole environment?`
`11:22.45`	`rwhitby`	`johncylee: Please test that change.`
`11:22.51`	`CM`	`jeffdameth: I recommend http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ :)`
`11:23.09`	`CM`	`jeffdameth: There is also an official buildhost.openmoko.org`
`11:23.15`	`*** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning)`
`11:23.24`	`jeffdameth`	`CM: thanks :)`
`11:24.22`	`rwhitby`	`For those that wish to stay on the bleeding edge rather than using the new stable OM monotone server (which is now the default): "make OM_MONOTONE_SITE=monotone.openembedded.org update"`
`11:24.32`	`CM`	`jeffdameth: But I direct any questions about the images to ScaredyCat, since he's the ones building them. ;)`
`11:24.56`	`CM`	`rwhitby: Thanks for the tip :)`
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`11:25.21`	`rwhitby`	`~emulate rwhitby`
`11:25.21`	`apt`	`Another Satisfied Customer!`
`11:25.43`	`johncylee`	`johncylee: will do in my env.`
`11:25.46`	`johncylee`	`.....`
`11:25.56`	`johncylee`	`rwhitby: will do in my env.`
`11:26.19`	`flexd`	`~emulate flexd`
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`11:27.02`	`jeffdameth`	`CM: ok, i hadnt looked at the device for now. we have the openmoko available for a student project and one coleague had problems with building the whole package :) he thought he had to...`
`11:27.28`	`CM`	`jeffdameth: Just follow the wiki for how to flash a fresh image onto it with dfu-util`
`11:27.42`	`rwhitby`	`flexd: don't do that too many times, or you'll run out of stack space in your brain.`
`11:27.43`	`CM`	`jeffdameth: And don't be afraid to ask questions in here :)`
`11:28.27`	`jeffdameth`	`hehe`
`11:28.54`	`zash`	`flexd: recursion is bad for your brain!`
`11:29.19`	`XorA`	`zash: isnt that called OCD these days :-)`
`11:29.43`	`zash`	`OCWHAT`
`11:29.43`	`Bubbi`	`Is it possible for a total newbie (using Windows and all) to have qemu running with the newest openmoko version?`
`11:29.46`	`CM`	`Or ML..`
`11:30.04`	`josch`	`Bubbi, newbie = windows?`
`11:30.20`	`*** join/#openmoko kW_ (i=kwkw@gateway/tor/x-ecea428919e9644c)`
`11:30.22`	`josch`	`bye CM !`
`11:30.32`	`zash`	`CM: sissyswamp`
`11:30.41`	`CM`	`zash: Hehe`
`11:30.55`	`CM`	`josch: I'll be trying out wesnoth when I get back :)`
`11:30.55`	`Bubbi`	`josch: heh, nope not nessesarily :-D but i was just making sure all knew i wasn't a linux guy`
`11:31.02`	`Bubbi`	`.. yet anyway`
`11:31.06`	`XorA`	`Obsessive Compulsive Disorder`
`11:31.08`	`cjb_ie`	`CM: gonna do some logging for OSM? :p`
`11:31.28`	`cjb_ie`	`now that gta01 gps can actually be used and stuff`
`11:31.40`	`CM`	`cjb_ie: Naa, my neo is in pieces, have borrowed a debugboard and will try to fix my broken uboot-env`
`11:31.51`	`CM`	`Bye!`
`11:33.21`	`Bubbi`	`josch: but is it possible for me to run the latest snapshots of openmoko using qemu, and if it is.. well.. how?`
`11:33.41`	`josch`	`well - I must admit that I'm a real windows newbie`
`11:33.50`	`josch`	`never used anything else than linux`
`11:34.40`	`zash`	`josch: lucky you`
`11:34.53`	`hdr`	`josch for president`
`11:34.54`	`Bubbi`	`heh, I have been using windows forever, tried a few linux distros, but they just didn't feel right to me, so i'm still using windows..`
`11:34.58`	`*** join/#openmoko esben_ (n=esben@0x55532124.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
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`11:36.49`	`Dwight2`	`hi`
`11:36.53`	`zash`	`yo`
`11:38.30`	`zash`	`ScaredyCat: how do i try qtopia images i qemu?`
`11:38.59`	`Bubbi`	`josch: I have tried using the qemu binary on the wiki, but it contains a very old image of openmoko, so I was wondering how to get one of the newer images running on qemu`
`11:39.59`	`josch`	`Bubbi, well the qemu binary you downloaded - you do specify the location of kernel and image somewhere don't you?`
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`11:40.57`	`Bubbi`	`nope, I just need to run a "run.bat" script..`
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`11:42.31`	`Bubbi`	`Josch: damn.. I just got disconnected (using a web-java client), if you have written something useful (or anything else), please write it again..`
`11:43.05`	`Bubbi`	`I have just looked at the run.bat file, it runs this: qemu-system-arm.exe -M neo -m 130 -mtdblock openmoko-flash.image -kernel uImage.bin -usb -show-cursor`
`11:43.48`	`zash`	`Bubbi: try replacing the .image and .bin-files`
`11:43.52`	`zash`	`with newer`
`11:43.55`	`esben_`	`any news on the toolchain release mickey has promised for this week?`
`11:44.25`	`CIA-14`	`03thomas * r3537 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/mokosearchbar: * Increase MokoSearchbar entry padding to fix bug 835`
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`11:46.39`	`Bubbi`	`josch: what should i replace "openmoko-flash.image" with? I have retrieved the uImage file from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/`
`11:46.53`	`XorA`	`esben_: not got the official word, but I think its in its last stages of testing`
`11:48.10`	`*** part/#openmoko johncylee (n=john@rd.tw.openmoko.org)`
`11:48.22`	`esben_`	`so it will soon hit my OE.mtn ?`
`11:48.22`	`torpor`	`whats the toolchain gonna be all about anyway? coz i'm not sure i understand the need, in light of all the stuff that is already there.`
`11:48.29`	`torpor`	`is it just a cleanup of the tools, or something?`
`11:49.05`	`josch`	`Bubbi, .image is the rootfs and .bin the kernel`
`11:49.20`	`esben_`	`torpor: the idea is to provide application developers with prebuilt toolchains, which can be used for developing OM applications without having to bother with OE.`
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`11:49.26`	`XorA`	`esben_: you can build toolchain now out of OE`
`11:50.05`	`torpor`	`bah.. would be better if someone just made a VM image available with everything ready to go. forget all this packaging business; just stuff it all into a VM and let people work with it that way.`
`11:50.11`	`esben_`	`XorA: yes, I know. But isn't Mickey doing some additional work on it, like including all relevant libraries needed for real OpenMoko application development?`
`11:50.19`	`*** part/#openmoko lukhas (n=lucas@rincevent.net)`
`11:50.39`	`XorA`	`esben_: it should be working now, but I cant personally build it to check`
`11:51.14`	`esben_`	`Yes, it can build, but it misses a lot of libraries needed for developing UI applications.`
`11:51.26`	`esben_`	`like libjana, and practically anything else than libc.`
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`11:51.53`	`Bubbi`	`josch: I'm sorry to be asking you, but which rootfs file should I then choose? there are a lot of different rootfs files.. i know i don't need files named with qtopia`
`11:52.26`	`josch`	`Bubbi, check out this url: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D`
`11:52.40`	`josch`	`Bubbi, now problem asking - this is what this channel is for ^^`
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`11:52.58`	`esben_`	`hi mickey`
`11:53.10`	`esben_`	`speeking of the sun :-)`
`11:53.53`	`esben_`	`how is the toolchain release plan proceeding? and is it just a build of the current meta-toolchain-openmoko, or are you extending it with additional tools and libraries?`
`11:54.48`	`Bubbi`	`josch: thank you very much, it's not always easy beeing a first-timer and all.. :-D So I appreciate all the help`
`11:56.27`	`Bubbi`	`josch: the image file has the suffix ".jffs2" and not .image. does it need to be unpacked, or can I use it as-is?`
`11:56.58`	`josch`	`Bubbi, no - use it as-is`
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`12:02.18`	`Bubbi`	`josch: hmm.. it won't work.. it reports "bad register"`
`12:03.13`	`josch`	`Bubbi, hrm...`
`12:03.31`	`josch`	`Bubbi, sry I'm neither skilled using windows nor qemu because I use a real neo ^^`
`12:04.40`	`Bubbi`	`josch: it's okay :-) I want a neo myself, but as I have no real developer skills, it would be foolish to buy a GTA01 model..`
`12:05.00`	`josch`	`Bubbi, yeah right`
`12:05.27`	`Bubbi`	`josch: I'll try to see if I can get this working somehow :-) thank you for your help on this`
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`12:06.13`	`josch`	`Bubbi, you are welcome! :-)`
`12:06.27`	`torpor`	`Bubbi: are you using the mokomakefile? coz if not, that is the easiest way to get rolling with moko app development/hacking, and it will do the qemu setup for you quite easily and well if you let it ..`
`12:07.45`	`josch`	`torpor, he is on windows`
`12:07.55`	`Bubbi`	`torpor: i'm using a windows binary :)`
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`12:18.03`	`torpor`	`so get vmware and set up a quick and dirty linux engine, run things that way. (i do that, btw, but i'm on osx)`
`12:18.17`	`torpor`	`there is no need to struggle with windows any longer.`
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`12:18.49`	`flexd`	`warg my braaaaain`
`12:20.57`	`cosmin`	`do i need glibc 2.5 in order to build with mokomakefile? i have glibc 2.6 and it doesn't work`
`12:21.03`	`*** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpna165.ugent.be)`
`12:21.24`	`kimnotyze`	`cosmin: which error message?`
`12:21.33`	`mickeyl`	`esben_: for now, meta-toolchain-openmoko is it. we will add additional tools and libraries once people request it`
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`12:22.35`	`esben_`	`mickeyl: ok.`
`12:22.35`	`cosmin`	kimnotyze: right after i run `make openmoko-devel-image', a NOTE says: preferred version 2.5 of glibc not available (for item virtual/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-libc-for-gcc)
`12:22.58`	`rwhitby`	`cosmin: that's the one single harmless warning message you should ignore.`
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`12:23.00`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1049 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com`
`12:23.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * Add e-mail address button labled as "Add Phone Number"`
`12:23.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1049`
`12:23.03`	`esben_`	`I am about the submit the patches needed for getting the generic meta-toolchain.bb to build on cygwin.`
`12:23.34`	`rwhitby`	`esben_: I'm interested in cygwin building of OE.`
`12:23.54`	`cosmin`	and building module-init-tools-cross fails with `/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lc'
`12:24.06`	`rwhitby`	`cosmin: that's a real error.`
`12:24.11`	`XorA`	`rwhitby: then you can have OpenMokoNMakfile :-D`
`12:24.21`	`esben_`	`rwhitby: I have only fixed it for toolchain building, and based on the experienced gained while doing that, I don't think it feasible to do actual image builds on cygwin.`
`12:24.42`	`rwhitby`	`XorA: no, I want to do an OpenEmbedded Eclipse plugin.`
`12:24.57`	`esben_`	`cosmin: try do a "bitbake gcc-cross" first, I believe there is a dependency issue there.`
`12:25.10`	`rwhitby`	`esben_: but cross toolchain and package builds are ok?`
`12:25.25`	`esben_`	`rwhitby: cool! make that an OpenMoko Eclipse plugin afterwards :-)`
`12:25.32`	`cosmin`	`esben_: right after setup, before building anything?`
`12:26.02`	`esben_`	`rwhitby: cross toolchain are ok and package building as such is ok, but those packages not required by meta-toolchain are in unknown state.`
`12:26.41`	`esben_`	`I think an OpenMoko Eclipse plugin based on meta-toolchain-openmoko for Linux and cygwin would be cool.`
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`12:27.03`	`esben_`	`An actual OpenEmbedded Eclipse plugin will most likely have to be Linux only.`
`12:27.08`	`rwhitby`	`anyone got a known-good SRCREV for openmoko-sample2 ?`
`12:27.51`	`rwhitby`	`esben_: where does it fall over?`
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`12:28.23`	`flexd`	`hmm`
`12:28.33`	`flexd`	`MS Exchange mail fetching on OpenMoko`
`12:28.34`	`flexd`	`would be awsome`
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`12:29.30`	`esben_`	`rwhitby: many places.`
`12:30.02`	`esben_`	`fakeroot does not exist on cygwin for one.`
`12:30.25`	`rwhitby`	`ok, that would stop images but not packages.`
`12:30.25`	`esben_`	`I don't think it is possible to generate device nodes as well, which makes it rather hard to generate rootfs images.`
`12:30.36`	`rwhitby`	`right - I'm only thinking packages.`
`12:30.49`	`esben_`	`and then there are just a lot of packages that does not build on cygwin.`
`12:31.12`	`esben_`	`they should all be fixable, but it will require some amount of effort, and would need to be maintained.`
`12:31.46`	`cosmin`	`esben_: sorry for this silly question, but how do i run bitbake? i tried cd moko && bitbake/bin/bitbake, but it can't find its configuration file`
`12:31.56`	`esben_`	`heavy usage of ASSUME_PROVIDED can minimize it a lot though, as cygwin itself has a lot of it included, and in very recent versions generally.`
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`12:34.18`	`mickeyl`	`rwhitby: 3537`
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`12:36.30`	`rwhitby`	`cosmin: if you are running bitbake directly, there is usually a shell script which you need to source first.`
`12:36.42`	`rwhitby`	`(probably called something like setup-env)`
`12:38.33`	`cosmin`	`thanks, rwhitby`
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`12:47.53`	`torpor`	`/clear`
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`12:47.56`	`flexd`	`mickeyl: lol nice`
`12:49.43`	`mickeyl`	`it's insane`
`12:49.51`	`mickeyl`	`:)`
`12:49.54`	`mickeyl`	`but better than late than never`
`12:49.59`	`mickeyl`	`s/than//`
`12:50.00`	`Stephmw`	`thr joys of popularity :)`
`12:50.06`	`mickeyl`	`heh, ya`
`12:53.13`	`Mononoke`	`heh If I wanted to rack mickeyl like "gimme 50k$ or I'll kill you. You have 1 month." I would feel quite bad getting reply half year later "Oh no please, I'll pay whatever you want just don't kill me! oh.. wait .. too late :P"`
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`12:53.37`	`josch`	`Mononoke, ^^`
`12:54.07`	`josch`	`now finally mickeyl gets to answer my hundreds of love letters I wrote him without ever getting an answer :-P`
`12:54.51`	`abraxa_`	`Mononoke: If you're going to blackmail mickey for money - of all people - then you're in the wrong channel. He has a GTA02!`
`12:55.08`	`josch`	`yeah - blackmail him for a gta03 !`
`12:55.16`	`abraxa_`	`lmao`
`12:55.34`	`abraxa_`	`With that mail backlog it would actually be on time ;D`
`12:56.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1050 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com`
`12:56.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * Address field does not have a type hint`
`12:56.03`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1050`
`12:56.13`	`Mononoke`	`I'm just saying that it's like sending mail to god "Dear god, are you in there?" [8k yeas later] God : screw it, too late again!`
`12:56.50`	`josch`	`Mononoke, hahahaha`
`12:57.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1051 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com`
`12:57.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * Photo chooser is missing`
`12:57.03`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1051`
`12:57.04`	`XorA`	`Mononoke: if you can wait 8k years for a reply, I dont think you need a god :-)`
`12:57.43`	`mickeyl`	`hehe`
`12:57.49`	`mickeyl`	`june nearly done`
`12:57.50`	`abraxa_`	`Speed of light... time... relativity... it could work!`
`12:58.00`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1052 has been created by thomas(AT)openedhand.com`
`12:58.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * Address field padding is incorrect`
`12:58.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1052`
`12:58.39`	`XorA`	`time for food`
`13:01.01`	`josch`	`Mononoke, bug reports: http://xkcd.com/258/`
`13:01.30`	`josch`	`or: http://xkcd.com/224/`
`13:01.59`	`Mononoke`	`yeah I love the second one`
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`13:15.39`	`mickeyl`	`Writchie\|zzzZZZz: when you have a chance, please indicate that you're working on a MUX patch that's due to release soon: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=90`
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`13:26.44`	`borg_`	`mickeyl: will the freesmartphones.org wiki be filled by you guys someday or is it intended that it gets filled magically by random people?`
`13:27.14`	`mickeyl`	`argh. please don't increase the pressure on me. it's on my agenda very high, but there's also some pressuring things i need to do before that`
`13:27.24`	`mickeyl`	`i hope i can do the first run of edits on weekend`
`13:27.30`	`borg_`	`ok ;)`
`13:27.42`	`mickeyl`	`please note that for now it's me wearing the "community hat" working on that`
`13:27.48`	`mickeyl`	`not me wearing the "OpenMoko hat"`
`13:27.59`	`mickeyl`	`i.e. i can't do it as part of my day job`
`13:28.04`	`mickeyl`	`yet...`
`13:28.21`	`borg_`	`it is just that i really want to help, but i am not sure how :)`
`13:28.41`	`josch`	`hey this feature is funny on new wiki installs: http://www.freesmartphone.org/wiki/index.php/Special:Random <= every click a surprise ^^`
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`13:29.36`	`mickeyl`	`borg_: right. and we _need_ your help! i promise i will fill up a lot on sunday`
`13:29.55`	`josch`	`borg_, I agree it would be usefull to have a todo list so that people like you and me can help writing`
`13:30.17`	`mickeyl`	`i can feel this can be a huge project getting quickly to results`
`13:30.29`	`mickeyl`	`but of course me and the guys need to do the initial stuff`
`13:30.29`	`josch`	`mickeyl, just write down what has to be done - that nothing is done might be due to nobody knowing what has to be done`
`13:30.38`	`mickeyl`	`josch: ok, cool. will do that on sunday. thanks`
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`14:07.00`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1053 has been created by emreturkay(AT)gmail.com`
`14:07.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * Application menu update`
`14:07.03`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1053`
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`14:15.20`	`rtm`	`Does anyone know if the stream of gibberish that gllin outputs via /tmp/nmeaP is described in detail somewhere?`
`14:16.55`	`mjr`	`it's nmea`
`14:17.27`	`mjr`	`seems to be described eg. here http://gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm`
`14:18.17`	`rtm`	`Great! Thanks for the pointer.`
`14:19.02`	`jorgenpt`	`There's also some info on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMEA`
`14:19.21`	`rtm`	`Thanks for that too.`
`14:19.38`	`Xx13`	`nmea is not gibberish, it's ascii frames`
`14:19.49`	`rtm`	`It's great to finally have the GPS working. I had given up hope.`
`14:20.51`	`rtm`	`Yes, I knew it was ASCII, it's just not particularly easy to read.`
`14:23.10`	`cjb_ie`	`the official specs are spendy to get, but there's plenty of reverse-engineered equivalents`
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`14:36.12`	`Hadaka`	`hey, do 8GB microSDHC cards work with Neo GTAv01?`
`14:36.54`	`borg_`	`Hadaka: 4GB do work`
`14:37.21`	`borg_`	`imo someone here spoke of a working 6GB card, can't see why 8GB shoudn't work`
`14:37.22`	`Hadaka`	`borg_: okay, well, guess I'll just hope 8GB can be made to work if it doesn't already`
`14:37.43`	`borg_`	`the hardware is ok for up to 32GB`
`14:37.45`	`borg_`	`i think`
`14:38.11`	`Hadaka`	`ok cool`
`14:38.24`	`borg_`	`Hadaka: it would be great if someone can verify if >4GB does or doesn't work ;)`
`14:38.31`	`borg_`	`but there is of course some risk ;)`
`14:38.51`	`Hadaka`	`anyone know of class 6 microSDHC or do I have to settle for class 4?`
`14:39.00`	`Hadaka`	`(8 GB that is)`
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`14:39.35`	`Hadaka`	`borg_: well, actually no risk for me, since I will mainly buy the card for N810, which is supposed to work - and I can then easily test it in GTA01 to confirm`
`14:39.51`	`Evil2ooo`	`hey there ... is minime here?`
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`14:40.37`	`borg_`	`Hadaka: thats great`
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`14:41.00`	`Hadaka`	`but, I won't get the stuff until just before christmas`
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`14:41.17`	`borg_`	`ok ;)`
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`14:43.54`	`Evil2ooo`	`minime: if you ever read this in you backlog, please check my query. thanks!`
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`15:52.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1054 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com`
`15:52.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * Description field does not scroll view during entering data`
`15:52.02`	`*** join/#openmoko Gybrush_ (n=Gybrush@f053152000.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`15:52.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1054`
`15:53.32`	`hrw`	`nox-Hand: in which way?`
`15:55.54`	`*** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4)`
`15:58.00`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1055 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com`
`15:58.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * "Delete event" icon is always enabled`
`15:58.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1055`
`16:02.35`	`*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-113-3.sa.bigpond.net.au)`
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`16:05.42`	`CIA-14`	`03mickey * r3538 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-calculator2/ (ChangeLog src/calc-main.c): openmoko-calculator2: use proper glyphs for /, *, etc. -- patch by Ross Burton`
`16:06.35`	`*** join/#openmoko Dwight2 (n=chatzill@vc-196-207-32-222.3g.vodacom.co.za)`
`16:08.34`	`Penguin`	`Hi, there`
`16:10.24`	`*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.131)`
`16:10.37`	`CIA-14`	`03chris * r3539 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/: Update libtaku`
`16:11.17`	`CIA-14`	`03chris * r3540 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-launcher.c):`
`16:11.17`	`CIA-14`	`* src/today-launcher.c: (item_removed_cb):`
`16:11.17`	`CIA-14`	`<PROTECTED>`
`16:15.03`	`*** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FE038.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:17.45`	`*** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com)`
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`16:25.32`	`CIA-14`	`03chris * r3541 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c):`
`16:25.32`	`CIA-14`	`* src/today-main.c: (workarea_changed), (main):`
`16:25.32`	`CIA-14`	`Migrate to x_monitor_workarea from x_get_workarea`
`16:25.33`	`*** join/#openmoko doughnut42 (n=goden@rrcs-67-79-195-201.sw.biz.rr.com)`
`16:27.11`	`*** join/#openmoko summat_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)`
`16:28.00`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1056 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com`
`16:28.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * Adding new phone number (or email) does not allow to set type first`
`16:28.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1056`
`16:28.41`	`*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-113-3.sa.bigpond.net.au)`
`16:29.49`	`demaledetti`	`anyone else having problem seeing $GPGSA,A,3 in their /tmp/nmeaNP ? I seem to never get a fix...`
`16:31.39`	`*** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com)`
`16:33.07`	`Vegar`	`have you tried going outside, demaledetti`
`16:33.08`	`abraxa__`	`demaledetti: Do you see $GPGSA,A,3 or is the problem that you're not seeing it?`
`16:33.22`	`demaledetti`	`Vegar: yes`
`16:33.28`	`demaledetti`	`abraxa__: I don't see it`
`16:33.31`	`abraxa__`	`Ah ok`
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`16:36.10`	`demaledetti`	`Vegar: maybe standing in front of the pub right downstairs was not outside enough, will try again later in some more open place, thanks for the suggestion`
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`16:36.25`	`Vegar`	`yeah`
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`16:41.57`	`CIA-14`	`03mickey * r3542 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-terminal.c): openmoko-terminal2: '~' doesn't work, try $HOME instead`
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`16:52.32`	`*** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz)`
`16:52.44`	`pavelm`	`Hello, everyone`
`16:53.27`	`*** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@33.84-49-135.nextgentel.com)`
`16:53.39`	`pavelm`	`I see gllin is available for download... but I can't get the readme file...`
`16:54.00`	`abraxa_`	`pavelm: Did you accept the license agreement?`
`16:54.01`	`pavelm`	`....ipk can be downloaded, but not files in doc/ directory :-(.`
`16:54.07`	`*** join/#openmoko tick (n=tick@122-124-71-107.dynamic.hinet.net)`
`16:54.08`	`ScaredyCat`	`you have to accept the ula`
`16:54.09`	`pavelm`	`abraxa: yes.`
`16:54.10`	`ScaredyCat`	`ula`
`16:54.12`	`ScaredyCat`	`eual`
`16:54.14`	`ScaredyCat`	`eula`
`16:54.16`	`abraxa_`	`lmao`
`16:54.16`	`ScaredyCat`	`feck`
`16:54.17`	`pavelm`	`:-).`
`16:54.21`	`*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)`
`16:54.28`	`pavelm`	`I did accept eula. I still can't get at the doc/ files.`
`16:54.33`	`ScaredyCat`	`hrrm`
`16:54.42`	`ScaredyCat`	`the readme doesn;t say much`
`16:54.57`	`pavelm`	`Aha, ok.`
`16:55.13`	`ScaredyCat`	`well, it worked here`
`16:55.24`	`ScaredyCat`	`I just accepted it -- and went to the docs dir...`
`16:55.30`	`ScaredyCat`	`-s`
`16:55.31`	`ScaredyCat`	`doc`
`16:55.47`	`pavelm`	`I get new eula when I click on README.txt, and accepting brings me back to ..`
`16:56.08`	`ScaredyCat`	`http://pastebin.ca/802752`
`16:56.21`	`ScaredyCat`	`lowercase readme.txt`
`16:56.33`	`ScaredyCat`	`not`
`16:56.34`	`pavelm`	`Thanks!`
`16:56.39`	`ScaredyCat`	`me slaps self`
`16:56.59`	`ScaredyCat`	`computer, exit`
`16:57.00`	`torpor`	`yikes.`
`16:57.03`	`ScaredyCat`	`[---]`
`17:00.02`	`*** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.177)`
`17:00.02`	`ScaredyCat`	`gneeeeh!..`
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`17:00.26`	`Dwight2`	`have you guys seen the demo of the deeda pi phone ?`
`17:00.54`	`pavelm`	`deeda pi? No...`
`17:01.03`	`Stephmw`	`can't say I have`
`17:01.14`	`pavelm`	`What do you use for gps software? i got pygps to run....`
`17:02.01`	`roh`	`pavelm which browser are you using? it works with firefox here for me. just sometimes the ff does sick stuff and stops sending referrers`
`17:02.24`	`roh`	`in a case of does-not-work, just restartv your browser ;)`
`17:02.28`	`pavelm`	`roh: galeon. ... mozilla based. It does not work at all from links.`
`17:03.30`	`roh`	`pavelm does it use proper referrers? or do you have a proxy which drops these?`
`17:04.25`	`pavelm`	`No idea... lynx does not even display "accept" button, fun ;-)`
`17:06.31`	`pavelm`	`...hmm, it works okay from mozilla. Good`
`17:08.01`	`*** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx)`
`17:09.24`	`*** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net)`
`17:09.49`	`*** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-62-216-213-151.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`17:10.00`	`*** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`17:12.45`	`*** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@rd.tw.openmoko.org)`
`17:14.31`	`*** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@218.4.143.117)`
`17:17.54`	`CIA-14`	`03chris * r3543 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c src/today.h): (log message trimmed)`
`17:17.54`	`CIA-14`	`* src/today-task-manager.c: (today_task_manager_populate_tasks),`
`17:17.54`	`CIA-14`	`(set_focus_cb), (page_shown), (page_hidden),`
`17:17.54`	`CIA-14`	`(today_task_manager_notify_visible_cb),`
`17:17.54`	`CIA-14`	`(today_task_manager_visibility_notify_event_cb),`
`17:17.56`	`CIA-14`	`(today_task_manager_unmap_cb), (today_task_manager_page_create):`
`17:18.00`	`CIA-14`	`* src/today.h:`
`17:18.41`	`*** part/#openmoko truli (n=magumbad@host-212-18-29-130.customer.m-online.net)`
`17:19.17`	`pavelm`	`dwight: Will you paste the url for demo?`
`17:19.57`	`Dwight2`	`http://www.deeda.com/consumerdevices-pi-v-entainment.php`
`17:20.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1057 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net`
`17:20.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * openmoko-browser2 could really use a local file selection browser`
`17:20.03`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1057`
`17:20.25`	`Dwight2`	`it claims to be linux based - but no gps i notice :(`
`17:21.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1058 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net`
`17:21.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * Web Browser renders plaintext as html -- looks ugly`
`17:21.03`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1058`
`17:22.34`	`*** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AED6F.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:23.31`	`*** join/#openmoko mkmks (n=viv@nfrolov.dialup.corbina.ru)`
`17:24.39`	`pavelm`	`Dwight2: I can't use private messages, sorry.`
`17:27.49`	`*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178212160.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`17:28.29`	`CoreDump`	`pavelm: you should register you nick before someone else does`
`17:28.42`	`pavelm`	`Dwight: That devices look nice...`
`17:28.53`	`pavelm`	`coredump: I'd like pavel and that one is registered already...`
`17:29.11`	`Dwight2`	`wonder if would be possible to run openmoko on it`
`17:29.17`	`CoreDump`	`It took me 3 years to obtain "coredump" ;)`
`17:29.33`	`pavelm`	`dwight: Probably yes... if they already run linux.`
`17:29.45`	`pavelm`	`Can the deeda be bought?`
`17:30.23`	`Dwight2`	`released next year but no gps i note :(`
`17:31.25`	`Xx13`	`deeda looks pretty slick, will proly cost a bunch`
`17:33.24`	`*** join/#openmoko Mitacheto (n=chatzill@87-126-23-138.btc-net.bg)`
`17:34.10`	`Xx13`	`looks a tiny bit like vaporware`
`17:35.25`	`pavelm`	`...capacitive touch seems ok, yes. But I'll believe it when I see it, looks lke vapor, true.`
`17:35.34`	`pavelm`	`Is there youtube video? I don't have flash installed...`
`17:35.50`	`*** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@78.42.60.129)`
`17:36.01`	`PBeck`	`hi`
`17:36.20`	`*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.131)`
`17:38.30`	`pavelm`	`hi, pbeck.`
`17:38.37`	`PBeck`	`hi pavelm`
`17:39.46`	`*** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-0f1e19e54184363a)`
`17:40.14`	`*** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)`
`17:44.52`	`*** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx)`
`17:49.01`	`*** join/#openmoko orino (n=orino@84-74-193-114.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`17:52.10`	`*** part/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net)`
`17:53.49`	`*** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com)`
`17:54.48`	`*** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@cable-vrk-fe5cdd00-177.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`17:55.13`	`kdean06`	`Perhaps this is a stupidly obvious question, but how do I close applications that appear in the drop-down window list?`
`17:55.42`	`pavelm`	`switch to app, then click power.`
`17:57.22`	`*** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com)`
`17:57.39`	`abraxa_`	`Anyone with a recent (less than 1 week old) rootfs around?`
`17:58.33`	`kdean06`	`pavelm, That may be why I'm at a loss, do you know which keyboard button corresponds to the Neo's power button?`
`17:58.48`	`kdean06`	`Space.`
`17:58.53`	`kdean06`	`Thanks for humouring me.`
`18:00.10`	`*** join/#openmoko RoboPhred (i=95a96433@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-3a6f96b48410890c)`
`18:01.20`	`*** join/#openmoko Dwight2 (n=chatzill@vc-196-207-32-228.3g.vodacom.co.za)`
`18:01.33`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net)`
`18:02.15`	`RoboPhred`	`makefile image finally finished, but I cant find out how to mess with the source`
`18:02.22`	`RoboPhred`	`not with the source of what I have in mind anyway`
`18:02.38`	`abraxa_`	`RoboPhred: What do you have in mind?`
`18:03.14`	`RoboPhred`	`the bridges game, there is a bug that lets you connect a node to itself. I am guessing now that it probably isnt consitered part of moko, is it?`
`18:03.16`	`abraxa_`	`mwester: ping`
`18:03.40`	`abraxa_`	`RoboPhred: Right, it actually isn't but I'm sure the guys at o-hand are happy to see patches`
`18:04.13`	`*** join/#openmoko hexa (n=hexa@67.70.246.100)`
`18:04.28`	`RoboPhred`	`alright. Out of curiosity, where would I find the code to deal with the menu ui object?`
`18:04.31`	`abraxa_`	`The package is called "oh-puzzles", btw`
`18:04.37`	`RoboPhred`	`yep, I tracked that down`
`18:05.00`	`abraxa_`	`Do you use rm_work in your local.conf?`
`18:05.08`	`RoboPhred`	`yep`
`18:05.23`	`abraxa_`	`You can comment it out and then do a`
`18:05.53`	`abraxa_`	`source setup-env; cd build; bitbake -f -c unpack oh-puzzles`
`18:06.07`	`RoboPhred`	`actually, that worked for me without removing the rm_work`
`18:06.25`	`RoboPhred`	`although it didnt give me any usefull stuff, unless I am using it wrong`
`18:06.31`	`RoboPhred`	`followed the info in the wiki for that`
`18:06.39`	`RoboPhred`	`it has images and the binaries, but not the source`
`18:06.43`	`abraxa_`	`Yes, but you don't want bitbake to wipe your changes away`
`18:07.15`	`abraxa_`	`Well okay, let me clarify`
`18:07.38`	`abraxa_`	`If you use rm_work, bitbake deletes all files that were used to build the package after it finished compiling and packaging it`
`18:07.55`	`RoboPhred`	`ah, ok`
`18:07.57`	`abraxa_`	`That's exactly what it did: it compiled and packaged it, then deleted everything`
`18:08.14`	`RoboPhred`	`I never compiled it after unpacking it though, after unpacking it I checked it, and no source was there`
`18:08.15`	`abraxa_`	`So without rm_work it will be available to you to work with even after packaging`
`18:08.23`	`abraxa_`	`Where did you check?`
`18:08.35`	`RoboPhred`	`build/tmp/work/....`
`18:08.40`	`RoboPhred`	`whatever the wiki said`
`18:08.49`	`RoboPhred`	`armv4-a~`
`18:08.52`	`abraxa_`	`Ah, it should be there`
`18:09.03`	`abraxa_`	`Mind trying the command I gave you?`
`18:09.12`	`RoboPhred`	`ok`
`18:09.33`	`pavelm`	`Okay, I should do some work. See you!`
`18:09.44`	`abraxa_`	`Bye bye pavelm`
`18:10.24`	`RoboPhred`	`yep, that did it`
`18:10.30`	`RoboPhred`	`I see more folders in it now, src is there`
`18:10.36`	`abraxa_`	`Good :)`
`18:10.39`	`RoboPhred`	`should probably update the wiki with that cmd`
`18:10.46`	`RoboPhred`	`will look for the page`
`18:11.28`	`abraxa_`	`You might also want to run a "bitbake -f -c configure" and later on a "... -c compile"`
`18:11.29`	`RoboPhred`	`found it, the cmd the wiki has lacks the -f switch`
`18:11.36`	`*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz)`
`18:11.41`	`abraxa_`	`Ah okay`
`18:13.49`	`RoboPhred`	`meh, I will put off the bridges thing for now, will try somthing more relevant. Where is the code for the dropdown menus located?`
`18:14.00`	`*** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@host132.natpool.mwn.de)`
`18:14.05`	`abraxa_`	`Which dropdown menus do you have in mind?`
`18:14.21`	`RoboPhred`	`I noticed it tries to place the currently selected item at the top, so it shows the scroll arrows when they really shouldnt be there`
`18:14.26`	`RoboPhred`	`the menu for the apps page`
`18:14.40`	`RoboPhred`	`if you select "all", then open the menu again, the arrows appear and its scrolled all the way down`
`18:14.54`	`RoboPhred`	`scroll up, then thhe screen flickers and the arrows dissapear when it realises it doesnt need them`
`18:15.16`	`abraxa_`	`Ah, that`
`18:15.17`	`RoboPhred`	`not sure how clear I am making this`
`18:15.22`	`abraxa_`	`Yeah, that one is annoying`
`18:16.42`	`*** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132)`
`18:17.02`	`abraxa_`	`http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/src/today-launcher.c?rev=3540&view=markup has the corresponding code in today_launcher_page_create()`
`18:17.08`	`*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)`
`18:17.25`	`abraxa_`	`So it's the MokoSearchBar widget that's responsible`
`18:18.32`	`abraxa_`	`...whose code you find in libmokoui2: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/libmokoui/moko-search-bar.c?rev=3040&view=markup`
`18:19.03`	`abraxa_`	`Is that enough to get you started? :)`
`18:19.06`	`*** join/#openmoko b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)`
`18:19.25`	`RoboPhred`	`probably, not like I know what I am doing but thats never stopped me before`
`18:19.31`	`borg_`	`:)`
`18:19.33`	`abraxa_`	`lol okay`
`18:19.37`	`abraxa_`	`If you need a hand, just ask`
`18:19.38`	`*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net)`
`18:19.53`	`RoboPhred`	`alright`
`18:20.13`	`*** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie)`
`18:20.19`	`RoboPhred`	`signing off for a bit`
`18:20.54`	`abraxa_`	`Alrighty :)`
`18:21.30`	`abraxa_`	`Is there anyone around who has non-working sound?`
`18:24.28`	`*** join/#openmoko _diego__ (n=diego@host-84-223-88-252.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`18:27.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1059 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com`
`18:27.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * remove DRI and VESA dead code`
`18:27.03`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1059`
`18:30.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1060 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com`
`18:30.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * e/disable logging at configure time`
`18:30.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1060`
`18:31.52`	`*** join/#openmoko RoboPhred (i=95a97a39@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-61f9f6f58d5d679a)`
`18:34.13`	`RoboPhred`	`bah, should have known better than to try to use suspend on an ubuntu laptop`
`18:34.30`	`cjb_ie`	`works for me :)`
`18:34.59`	`RoboPhred`	`I have always had rotten luck with acpi`
`18:35.07`	`RoboPhred`	`either never suspends or never wakes up again`
`18:35.09`	`*** join/#openmoko suspence (n=Miranda@208.187.196.34)`
`18:35.51`	`*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B1098.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`18:38.22`	`*** join/#openmoko HistoryOnTheRoad (n=gerald@CPE0080c6f097c0-CM014480104023.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`18:41.30`	`RoboPhred`	`this is.. odd`
`18:41.30`	`RoboPhred`	`bitbake: unknown command`
`18:41.30`	`RoboPhred`	`worked not 20 minutes ago`
`18:43.09`	`*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.131)`
`18:43.43`	`*** join/#openmoko cmccurdy (n=cmccurdy@c-68-39-79-98.hsd1.de.comcast.net)`
`18:44.48`	`abraxa_`	`You forgot the "source setup-env" then :)`
`18:45.06`	`RoboPhred`	`I did apt-get install and it installed...`
`18:45.18`	`RoboPhred`	`I think its just hard drive corruption, it playes hell with vista I know`
`18:45.37`	`RoboPhred`	`or that failed hibernation screwed it up`
`18:45.49`	`abraxa_`	`Vista...`
`18:46.00`	`RoboPhred`	`more stable than ubuntu for me`
`18:46.15`	`RoboPhred`	`I use ubuntu primaraly anyway though`
`18:48.45`	`*** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAA914.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`18:48.51`	`RoboPhred`	`hmm, wouldnt that drop down menu be gtkcombo?`
`18:49.02`	`RoboPhred`	`searchbar says its just a fusion of combo and entry`
`18:49.29`	`abraxa_`	`RoboPhred: Yep, exactly`
`18:49.59`	`*** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@cpe-071-077-055-135.nc.res.rr.com)`
`18:50.45`	`*** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@172-122.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch)`
`18:51.36`	`*** join/#openmoko macogw (i=0c2f7b79@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-99e20701e6c23d3a)`
`18:52.04`	`macogw`	`Verizon's going GSM :D http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/wireless-networking/60537.html`
`18:52.12`	`RoboPhred`	`hmm, I dont know where to look to find where the combo code is`
`18:53.16`	`RoboPhred`	`and ubuntu throws up some Strange and Unearthly error when I try to use its file search...`
`18:53.26`	`*** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.212.95)`
`18:53.38`	`*** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A568AE.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:54.48`	`*** join/#openmoko KaZeR (n=kazer@77.200.106.249)`
`18:56.05`	`RoboPhred`	`need a pointer, abraxa, how would I find certain elements through the source`
`18:56.16`	`kdean06`	`Wow... Verizon is a bastion of technical isolation, that's very interesting... I see that their plan is to migrate to LTE which is "based-on" GSM, but are they compatible?`
`18:56.37`	`abraxa_`	`kdean06: Knowing Verizon it's not`
`18:57.03`	`Dwight2`	`is verizon part owned by vodafone?`
`18:57.10`	`abraxa_`	`RoboPhred: Elements?`
`18:57.18`	`kdean06`	`grep`
`18:57.25`	`RoboPhred`	`cant track down the gtkcombo code`
`18:57.49`	`RoboPhred`	`I know of grep, wont help any here`
`18:58.00`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 1061 has been created by dodji(AT)openedhand.com`
`18:58.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * e the current code base to olv last developments`
`18:58.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1061`
`18:58.03`	`abraxa_`	`RoboPhred: The GtkComboBox code will be in the GTK source code`
`18:58.21`	`RoboPhred`	`assumed as much, closest I found was gtk-engine`
`18:59.41`	`abraxa_`	`RoboPhred: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk%2B/gtk/gtkcombobox.c?rev=1.193&view=markup`
`19:00.05`	`macogw`	`kdea06: i found that link coming from one about how Verizon is opening their network so they can get in on business from people who want to use phones other than theirs and are willing to switch away from VZW to do it`
`19:00.16`	`josch`	`lol wesnoth multiplayer - my neo as the server! :-D`
`19:00.26`	`macogw`	`dwight2: yes, vodafone owns 40-something % it says`
`19:04.03`	`*** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@201.54.230.90)`
`19:05.13`	`RoboPhred`	`hm, how would I set it up so that I can make changes to the gtk code and have it apply to the qemu?`
`19:05.23`	`RoboPhred`	`since it seems like I need to download another repository`
`19:05.25`	`*** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@host132.natpool.mwn.de)`
`19:06.04`	`abraxa_`	`RoboPhred: qemu? Uh... I thought you had a device`
`19:06.46`	`abraxa_`	`Well, you could SSH into qemu and do stuff that way`
`19:07.06`	`abraxa_`	`Building GTK using OE and then shoving the library into qemu with scp`
`19:07.17`	`RoboPhred`	`I know how to do that, how would I get a change in the gtk code to apply to the makefile-created qemu?`
`19:07.22`	`abraxa_`	`You certainly don't want to build and flash a new rootfs every time`
`19:07.41`	`abraxa_`	`qemu has nothing to do with that`
`19:07.54`	`abraxa_`	`It just runs the GTK library it finds on the rootfs`
`19:08.14`	`RoboPhred`	`I ment how to get the changes into the emulated phone, not qemu as the program`
`19:08.16`	`RoboPhred`	`wrong word, sorry`
`19:08.22`	`abraxa_`	`oh okay`
`19:08.31`	`abraxa_`	`Well like I said: ssh/scp`
`19:08.41`	`abraxa_`	`That would be the fastest way`
`19:13.08`	`*** join/#openmoko MBitter (n=malbi@p3EE2582F.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:14.56`	`MBitter`	`Hi, I've a error during "make qemu" with the current MokoMakefile (http://pastebin.com/m632b5327)`
`19:15.23`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`19:16.48`	`balrog-kun`	`MBitter: humm, someone reported the same error already, it seems only OpenMoko version of qemu exhibits this even though the error is in a file comepletely unaffected by OM`
`19:17.02`	`balrog-kun`	`that other person was using MokoMakefile as well`
`19:18.18`	`MBitter`	`sorry, messages was in german. Here is the same with LANG=C http://pastebin.com/m54bf5c19`
`19:18.36`	`balrog-kun`	`strange thing was that the file audio.d existed, it just couldn't be found by Makefile when running from MokoMakefile`
`19:19.39`	`MBitter`	`In my case there is no audio.d. At least in the same directory as audo.c`
`19:20.48`	`balrog-kun`	`you can create an empty audio.d and it should be enough theoretically but for that other person the files still ciould not be found`
`19:20.57`	`balrog-kun`	`"touch audio/audio.d"`
`19:21.37`	`RoboPhred`	`urg, I need to find a good IDE for ubuntu`
`19:21.50`	`RoboPhred`	`got hooked on visual studio`
`19:21.52`	`MBitter`	`I've touched it but the error is still the same`
`19:22.06`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: for which language? c/c++?`
`19:22.16`	`RoboPhred`	`yep`
`19:22.19`	`balrog-kun`	`RoboPhred: where are other .d files when using MokoMakefile?`
`19:22.26`	`balrog-kun`	`oops, this was for MBitter`
`19:22.29`	`RoboPhred`	`hold on, will check`
`19:22.41`	`borg_`	`i think kdevelop is kind of a visual studio clon`
`19:22.50`	`RoboPhred`	`tried it before, failed misurably`
`19:23.12`	`MBitter`	`doing a 'find -name "*.d"' but this takes some time...`
`19:23.19`	`*** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e70d05a.adsl.enternet.hu)`
`19:23.22`	`RoboPhred`	`ok`
`19:23.25`	`balrog-kun`	`the thing is MokoMakefile builds qemu out-of-tree, so the .d file are probably not where the .c files are`
`19:23.25`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: in what kind?`
`19:23.35`	`balrog-kun`	`perhaps together with the .o's`
`19:23.54`	`RoboPhred`	`I think it was an issue with somthing along the lines of automake`
`19:24.12`	`RoboPhred`	`probably should try it again sometime, probably has been fixed by now`
`19:24.30`	`borg_`	`you dont have to compile it yourself when you are using ubnutu`
`19:24.36`	`borg_`	`apt-get install kdevelop`
`19:24.45`	`RoboPhred`	`it never installed automake and other things though`
`19:24.51`	`RoboPhred`	`I will try it later on`
`19:25.06`	`MBitter`	`tey are in build/qemu`
`19:25.14`	`borg_`	`you could try eclipse + cdt too`
`19:25.30`	`borg_`	`but however, perhaps you should try emacs or gvim`
`19:25.45`	`MBitter`	`touching the .d file there solved it for that .c file but there are more .d files missing`
`19:26.05`	`balrog-kun`	`MBitter: so perhaps touch audio/audio.d there`
`19:26.13`	`balrog-kun`	`ouch`
`19:26.24`	`RoboPhred`	`its not the text editor, its just the sorting/intellesense stuff vstudio did`
`19:26.48`	`balrog-kun`	`the addition of the .d files likely broke out-of-tree building, but MokoMakefile should probably try to compensate somehow`
`19:26.50`	`RoboPhred`	`just click on a function and it takes you to where its defined, hard going trying to find all the functions manually`
`19:26.57`	`balrog-kun`	`upstream nobody tests out-of-tree builds`
`19:27.01`	`borg_`	`there is nothing that emacs or vi cant do`
`19:27.13`	`borg_`	`in this direction`
`19:27.20`	`*** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=user0815@unaffiliated/dcordes)`
`19:27.20`	`borg_`	`but i dont want to start a flamewar here :)`
`19:27.42`	`RoboPhred`	`tis fine, I will give another attempt at learning them some time`
`19:27.46`	`MBitter`	`after another 'touch build/qemu/slirp/chsum.d' qemu compiled succsessfully`
`19:28.15`	`balrog-kun`	`(bt i'll be happy to apply a patch upstream if someone manages to fix this in MokoMakefile+qemu-neo1973`
`19:28.19`	`balrog-kun`	`)`
`19:28.22`	`MBitter`	`ok, it dose not!`
`19:29.16`	`MBitter`	`now it is a lot more complite but the linking returns an error`
`19:29.27`	`MBitter`	undefined reference to `sdl_display_init'
`19:29.50`	`balrog-kun`	`haven't seen this one yet`
`19:29.51`	`*** join/#openmoko OJW (n=Ojw@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk)`
`19:31.36`	`balrog-kun`	`can you see -lSDL in the linker commandline?`
`19:33.47`	`MBitter`	`http://pastebin.com/d4c532583 That's the line executed with MokoMakefile`
`19:34.00`	`MBitter`	`-lSDL is in there`
`19:35.23`	`MBitter`	`My System is a Debian sid up-to-date`
`19:35.31`	`*** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A54373.dip.t-dialin.net)`
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`19:35.41`	`balrog-kun`	`is there a line CONFIG_SDL=yes in config-host.mak?`
`19:35.53`	`balrog-kun`	`if it's there then i have no more ideas`
`19:36.18`	`RoboPhred`	`borg_: I got gvim, how would set it up to jump to functions?`
`19:37.12`	`balrog-kun`	`RoboPhred: ctags and ctrl+T on any function name`
`19:38.18`	`balrog-kun`	`oops, it's crtl+], ctrl+T is to go back to where you were editing`
`19:38.20`	`MBitter`	`balrog-kun, No that line is not in build/qemu/config-host.mak`
`19:38.57`	`balrog-kun`	`MBitter: it would mean that MokoMakefile configured qemu for no SDL or qemu thought there is no SDL, but i don't know why it owuld include -lSDL then`
`19:40.27`	`RoboPhred`	`ctags is running, although with quite a lot of errors`
`19:40.42`	`RoboPhred`	`warnings*`
`19:41.20`	`MBitter`	`balrog-kun, I've deleted buile/qemu/Makefile so that configure run. SDL is recognized by configure`
`19:41.26`	`RoboPhred`	`alright, while this is going on, how would gtk+ be compiled? make says no target, and I see a Makefile.am file but dont know what it does`
`19:42.46`	`*** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
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`19:43.28`	`balrog-kun`	`MBitter: in such case and if --disable-sdl was not used then that line should be in config-host.mak`
`19:43.41`	`balrog-kun`	`RoboPhred: is there a "autogen" file?`
`19:43.58`	`balrog-kun`	`autogen should generate a Makefile out of a Makefile.am afaik`
`19:44.09`	`RoboPhred`	`autogen as a file or a program?`
`19:44.27`	`balrog-kun`	`both, it's some shell script`
`19:44.37`	`RoboPhred`	`apt-getting it`
`19:44.51`	`balrog-kun`	`no no, in the directory where you found Makefile.am`
`19:44.54`	`RoboPhred`	`meanwhile, ctags seems to be doing strange and unearthly things to my disk`
`19:45.26`	`balrog-kun`	`oh don't worrrry it's only wiping it all out`
`19:45.29`	`balrog-kun`	`brb phone`
`19:45.44`	`RoboPhred`	`ran it on the gtk folder, and its currently throwing up a file not found error for every .so it can find in the openmoko folder`
`19:46.04`	`MBitter`	`balrog-kun, There was not. I've added it and qemu compiled`
`19:46.18`	`MBitter`	`and it's running`
`19:48.00`	`RoboPhred`	`ran autogen on Makefile.am and it threw an error`
`19:51.37`	`RoboPhred`	`found info on the 'real' autogen that gnome uses, but it says it sets up the makefile for the computer it runs on, I need to compile it for the neo hardware...`
`19:53.19`	`*** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@83.119.198.36)`
`19:54.17`	`RoboPhred`	`abraxa_: how would I compile gtk for the neo?`
`19:55.51`	`borg_`	`abraxa_: you would take the gtk sourecode which oe uses, edit it, make a patch, throw it in the right directory, change the bb file and compile it with bitbake`
`19:56.00`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: there is quite a good tutorial in the openmoko wiki`
`19:56.19`	`RoboPhred`	`I searched gtk in the wiki, nothing came up`
`19:56.25`	`borg_`	`not about gtk`
`19:56.39`	`borg_`	`but about compiling oe things`
`19:57.16`	`*** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org)`
`19:58.26`	`RoboPhred`	`under toolchain?`
`20:00.07`	`borg_`	`i meant this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile#Developing_with_MokoMakefile`
`20:00.14`	`borg_`	`have not worked with the toolchain`
`20:01.02`	`balrog-kun`	`why do you need to modify gtk?`
`20:01.25`	`RoboPhred`	`experementing with fixing an annoyance in the menu`
`20:01.47`	`RoboPhred`	`open the app page, select "all" from the menu, then open the menu again, the 2 arrow bars appear but are not needed`
`20:01.59`	`balrog-kun`	`i guess autogen --target= or --host= is for cross compiling`
`20:02.15`	`balrog-kun`	`and it might require setting CROSS_COMPILE= to something too,`
`20:02.25`	`balrog-kun`	`but as abraxa_ says you would better use OE`
`20:02.47`	`*** join/#openmoko \|bluemaex\| (n=bluemaex@81.169.232.236)`
`20:02.53`	`RoboPhred`	`how to use OE is what I wanted to know`
`20:03.18`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: you used mokomakefile and did an make update?`
`20:03.25`	`balrog-kun`	`i don't know, i don't use it :-)`
`20:03.31`	`borg_`	`then look in openembedded/packages/gtk+/`
`20:04.04`	`RoboPhred`	`aha! thats where its hidden!`
`20:04.06`	`*** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@201.54.230.90)`
`20:04.08`	`borg_`	`you want to edit gtk+_2.12.0.bb`
`20:04.50`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: do some sort of file://MY_PATCH.patch;patch=1 to the SRC_URI variable`
`20:05.16`	`borg_`	`and then copy your patch to openembedded/packages/gtk+/gtk+-2.12.0`
`20:05.26`	`RoboPhred`	`alright`
`20:05.26`	`borg_`	`and than do make rebuild-package-gtk+`
`20:05.33`	`borg_`	`then you get a new gtk+ ipk`
`20:05.40`	`borg_`	`this can be installed on your neo`
`20:05.44`	`borg_`	`and if it works`
`20:05.48`	`RoboPhred`	`I am in way over my head here, but its the only way to learn.`
`20:05.58`	`RoboPhred`	`time to find out how to make a patch then`
`20:05.59`	`borg_`	`you can attach the patch to the bugzilla`
`20:06.09`	`borg_`	`and they can then use it easiely`
`20:06.10`	`*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.131)`
`20:06.30`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: thats easy ;)`
`20:06.41`	`borg_`	`diff old_file.c new_file.c`
`20:06.44`	`RoboPhred`	`do I need to get the gtk+ source from anywhere specific?`
`20:06.48`	`borg_`	`diff old_file.c new_file.c > my_patch.patch`
`20:06.49`	`borg_`	`;)`
`20:07.01`	`RoboPhred`	`or will the gnome svn I just got work for this`
`20:07.21`	`RoboPhred`	`I probably have to download the OE svn now, right?`
`20:07.26`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: it is in sources/`
`20:07.30`	`borg_`	`if you made a make update`
`20:07.44`	`borg_`	`gtk+-2.10.14.tar.bz2`
`20:07.49`	`*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)`
`20:07.54`	`CVirus`	`What's the difference between GTA02v4 and GTA02a4 ?`
`20:07.55`	`borg_`	`and thats the version of the bb file you want to edit too`
`20:08.04`	`borg_`	`i said 2.12 above`
`20:08.08`	`borg_`	`thats probably wrong`
`20:09.01`	`RoboPhred`	`what would I need to edit in the bb file?`
`20:09.07`	`RoboPhred`	`just add a rev number or such?`
`20:09.24`	`borg_`	`nothing, just add your patch`
`20:09.59`	`*** join/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net)`
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`20:17.31`	`RoboPhred`	`gtkmenu talks about the size of the toplevel, anyone mind defining that?`
`20:18.50`	`RoboPhred`	`scrach that`
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`20:38.48`	`RoboPhred`	`in gtk+, requisition.height is the position of the selected item?`
`20:39.00`	`RoboPhred`	`for the gtkmenu?`
`20:39.13`	`RoboPhred`	`wait, its a local var, nevermind`
`20:39.48`	`OJW`	`just noticed something on a mailing list... do openmoko programs have to cope with their aspect ratio being changed to landscape mode?`
`20:40.06`	`RoboPhred`	`I would assume so`
`20:40.53`	`borg_`	`OJW: of course`
`20:40.56`	`*** join/#openmoko ixian (n=ixian@201.84-48-217.nextgentel.com)`
`20:42.08`	`OJW`	`so your window just resizes to 800x600 or whatever?`
`20:42.44`	`borg_`	`exactly`
`20:43.38`	`borg_`	`OJW: i think, if your application is only useable in one mode it is ok too`
`20:43.47`	`*** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de)`
`20:44.39`	`OJW`	`because people can just stick to that mode, yes that's an option`
`20:44.53`	`borg_`	`espacially in a route program`
`20:45.22`	`borg_`	`you will mostly use it in your car, where your neo is attached somewhere in the car anyway`
`20:45.53`	`borg_`	`but of course it is allways cool when it is useable with both orientations ;)`
`20:47.58`	`*** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be)`
`20:48.41`	`OJW`	`oh, it's definitely not car-only ;) the first time you can get a satnav that shows cycle routes`
`20:51.11`	`jadams_`	`speaking of the neo + gps, can anyone verify they've had gps luck withotu an antenna?`
`20:51.29`	`jadams_`	`I can get three satellites blue in the SS tab of agpsui on occasion, but have yet to get a single positive position fix`
`20:53.24`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`20:53.59`	`quicksand`	`For a while yesterday evening I was seeing 12 satellites, even while in my car.`
`20:54.05`	`RoboPhred`	`alright, I am ready to start messing with stuff, can you repeat the cmd to compile the package?`
`20:54.06`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: of OSM pyroute fame? :)`
`20:54.28`	`RoboPhred`	`forced to use a webclient for irc, it doesnt keep too much chat history`
`20:54.40`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`jadams_: GPS w/o antanae ... you mean w/o external anten?`
`20:54.48`	`jadams_`	`HistoryOnTheRoad, yup`
`20:55.08`	`quicksand`	`(I was just reading raw NMEA, not looking at agpsui, so I don't know what color they would have been)`
`20:55.24`	`OJW`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: you managed to run it?`
`20:55.32`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Yes, I've gotten several tracks w/o any extern antanae (However you spell that damned word)`
`20:55.47`	`OJW`	`aerial`
`20:56.18`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: No, not yet. Last I asked, updating was busted and I'm running an ancient version of the base stuff (but 2007.2 still)`
`20:56.26`	`quicksand`	`heh`
`20:56.37`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`If the update is working, I'll try right now :)`
`20:56.57`	`quicksand`	`OJW: Is there a tarball download, or just the svn?`
`20:57.15`	`OJW`	`svn`
`20:57.45`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`I'd like to get something working to do mapping itself, I figured I'd need to wait a bit to get routing to work :)`
`20:58.22`	`OJW`	`to do the surveying to create new maps you mean?`
`20:59.08`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Yup. I've been collecting some traces and adding local map bits, but have to hack a bit to get something going on the neo`
`20:59.34`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Most of my work to date has been on paper and with JOSM or potlatch`
`21:00.02`	`OJW`	`pyroute will record tracklogs (since today) and it should let you sketch on the map (which you can save as GPX and view in JOSM)`
`21:00.44`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: I'd like it tie in recordings, ie being able to say/spell out the intersections`
`21:01.07`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`I'm not sure how well that will work, but even a bluetooth keyboard would be awkward when I'm driving :P`
`21:01.42`	`OJW`	`someone else was asking about that. is there an easy way that I can ask for 3 seconds'-worth of WAV audio data from the microphone, when someone marks a waypoint?`
`21:02.09`	`*** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2)`
`21:03.39`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: I think so. I'm not sure which OM list it was, but they were talking about recording the other day`
`21:03.59`	`*** join/#openmoko peeps[work] (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com)`
`21:03.59`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`I have to update and move my wikinotes on that too`
`21:04.25`	`mjr`	`pyroute was insanely slow on the neo`
`21:04.32`	`RoboPhred`	`borg_: I need help on patching, the result from diff isnt in the same format as the others`
`21:04.36`	`RoboPhred`	`for one thing, it doesnt say what file to patch`
`21:05.02`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Is it safe to update/upgrade now, does anyone know?`
`21:05.04`	`quicksand`	`mjr: Everybody says it's really slow -- but /how/ slow?`
`21:05.06`	`OJW`	`mjr: if it can't handle rescaling images, maybe it needs to be limited to certain exact zoom levels`
`21:05.11`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: you need diff -u`
`21:05.13`	`mjr`	`quicksand, in-sane`
`21:05.20`	`mjr`	`unusable slow`
`21:05.21`	`borg_`	`for "unifid diff"`
`21:05.22`	`RoboPhred`	`thankyee, will try`
`21:05.26`	`borg_`	`that is, what is normally used`
`21:05.38`	`quicksand`	`How many seconds are in an "insane" ;-)`
`21:05.43`	`OJW`	`ok, integer zoom levels it is then...`
`21:06.07`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: How are the tiles handled?`
`21:06.25`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Are you drawing vectors or are you loading bitmaps for them?`
`21:06.45`	`quicksand`	`OJW: Integer EVERYTHING, preferably.`
`21:06.47`	`*** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2)`
`21:07.39`	`mjr`	`oh, and screw the antialiasing`
`21:07.54`	`*** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAA914.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`21:08.04`	`quicksand`	`mjr: something tells me cairo isn't the slow part`
`21:08.35`	`OJW`	`we think cairo probably is slow at rescaling images`
`21:08.58`	`RoboPhred`	`borg_: still complains: missing header for unified diff at line 3 of patch`
`21:09.21`	`quicksand`	`Ah, that makes sense. Cairo drawing lines is pretty good. Rescaling bitmaps, I dunno.`
`21:09.30`	`cworth`	`OJW: Cairo's probably quite slow at rescaling bitmaps, yes.`
`21:09.31`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy__ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`21:09.47`	`cworth`	`Vector maps is what I'd be much more interested in seeing on the neo, though.`
`21:10.10`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: ah, look at the other .patch files and copy the first 2 lines but change the directory to yours`
`21:10.25`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: don't know if there is a better way to do this`
`21:10.31`	`OJW`	`vector maps seemed very very slow on my PC`
`21:10.36`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: oe needs this 2 lines`
`21:10.40`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`cworth: Working is good, then we can twiddle to get it working better.`
`21:11.09`	`cworth`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: Definitely.`
`21:12.19`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Bitmaps are fine for now. If the neo seems good enough at doing Vector stuff (and we get scaling for free then), I'm all for it.`
`21:12.52`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`The thing about maps is that most people will want good maps around their immediate area`
`21:13.24`	`RoboPhred`	`hmm, other patches say 2.10.6, I modified 2.10.14`
`21:13.33`	`RoboPhred`	`is that a problem>`
`21:13.54`	`OJW`	`problem with vector maps, is that there's all sorts of stuff you need to do (drawing bridges, shading oceans)`
`21:13.58`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`So, while fancy stuff is nice, we should be practical. Preloading a bunch of tiles isn't horrible, and if that will be faster then rendering on the neo`
`21:14.12`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: nod`
`21:14.38`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: try it`
`21:14.54`	`RoboPhred`	`already am`
`21:14.57`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`The 02 might be fast enough to look at it ... and of course we should revisit it for any new hardware rev`
`21:15.11`	`borg_`	`it is probably ok, the patches are just a older and copied from version to version`
`21:15.24`	`mjr`	`yeah, I could live with preload tiles`
`21:15.26`	`RoboPhred`	`the file lines in some of them ref files that dont exist, hmm`
`21:15.28`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: You said you could scribble on the map. Any way to upload that to a server and serve it as a layer? :D`
`21:15.37`	`OJW`	`it seems like lots of people think "vector maps, oh that's easy. I'll just draw a blue line for a motorway/interstate". and the OSM bitmap renderers have had to solve problems like 1000x harder than that just to get multilayered highway junctions where the sliproad goes over a bridge and smoothly merges into the road it just went over`
`21:16.01`	`RoboPhred`	`looks like it took the patch`
`21:16.02`	`mjr`	`OJW, nod`
`21:16.22`	`OJW`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: it can save as GPX now (which you can do stuff with) - I'm working on ways to share that info`
`21:16.22`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: great :)`
`21:16.42`	`OJW`	`http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Pyroute_share_server`
`21:16.44`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: They are just thinking about those hokey GPS units they see... wow, lines, it can't be THAT hard.`
`21:16.58`	`*** join/#openmoko kW (i=kwkw@gateway/tor/x-3193bca2d6a85930)`
`21:18.20`	`*** join/#openmoko d1 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net)`
`21:18.34`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`OJW: I'm not well versed enough in the server stuff (yet) to know what is possible ... I just know that the layers stuff seems to open some interesting possibilities`
`21:20.04`	`quicksand`	`Well, my PalmOS Tapwave Zodiac runs TomTom Nav 5 very well -- about one frame per second on the pseudo-3D view.`
`21:20.13`	`quicksand`	`I'm pretty sure it's a software rendering engine`
`21:20.40`	`quicksand`	`(Highly optimized, to be sure)`
`21:20.40`	`OJW`	`quicksand: out of interest: does it show coastlines and seas?`
`21:21.02`	`quicksand`	`But 90% of the battle is pre-optimizing the data set so you don't need to be processing too much "well, this object goes on top of that, but under the other thing" in real time`
`21:21.36`	`*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.131)`
`21:21.37`	`quicksand`	`OJW: Yes, as solid blue.`
`21:21.52`	`quicksand`	`And park areas are solid green, with (occasional) streets that go through them.`
`21:22.09`	`CVirus`	`What's the difference between GTA02v4 and GTA02a4 ?`
`21:22.12`	`CVirus`	`v4 and a4 ?`
`21:22.22`	`quicksand`	`It does a rough beige-green-blue landscape (fairly jaggy), then overlays the streets on top of that.`
`21:23.30`	`ixian`	`CVirus: not that I know anything, but probably the only difference is an typo ;)`
`21:23.37`	`CVirus`	`hehe`
`21:24.52`	`RoboPhred`	`borg_: how would I get it into qemu? I tried make qemu again but the change isnt there`
`21:24.55`	`quicksand`	`OJW: This is on a 200 MHz ARMv4T also, which if anything is a bit slower than the Neo (though the screen res is only 480x320).`
`21:25.10`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: i dont know`
`21:25.38`	`RoboPhred`	`borg_: the makefile has somthing about flash-qemu-local and flash-qemu-official, but the former throws errors everywhere`
`21:25.44`	`borg_`	`on the neo i would just install it with ipkg install gtk*.ipk`
`21:26.18`	`RoboPhred`	`in that case, I would need to compile gtk+ as its own package... how?`
`21:26.36`	`RoboPhred`	`I dont even know if I can get the file over, the usb bridge refuses to function`
`21:27.04`	`borg_`	`RoboPhred: you did make rebuild-package-gtk+?`
`21:27.10`	`borg_`	`then you already made your own package :)`
`21:28.24`	`borg_`	`it is somewhere in build/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/`
`21:29.42`	`RoboPhred`	`ok, trying to fix somthing else right now`
`21:29.47`	`RoboPhred`	`the make image cmd fails horribly`
`21:29.50`	`RoboPhred`	`trying to figure out why...`
`21:31.39`	`RoboPhred`	`looks like whatever unpacking that oh-puzzles package did, it screwed up the image function`
`21:32.20`	`borg_`	`thats bad`
`21:32.35`	`borg_`	`then you should probably do something like make clean-package-oh-puzzle`
`21:33.26`	`quicksand`	`If the puzzles messed up your build, then there's something REALLY wrong. Those have been building successfully since (approximately) Day One for me.`
`21:33.45`	`RoboPhred`	`I unpackaged them and was planning to modify them later`
`21:33.58`	`RoboPhred`	`files were probably corrupted, I get that a lot from this pc`
`21:34.55`	`*** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`21:35.06`	`RoboPhred`	`hmm, its still throwing up a bunch of errors but compiled this time`
`21:35.11`	`RoboPhred`	`looks like the errors that were there before though`
`21:35.31`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`ugh, I think upgrade is a bit busted.`
`21:35.42`	`*** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@33.84-49-135.nextgentel.com)`
`21:36.08`	`*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)`
`21:36.14`	`RoboPhred`	`alright, built the image, reflashed qemu, and lets see if I actually did anything worthwile`
`21:37.21`	`*** part/#openmoko pike_ (n=happy@74-140-134-102.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`21:38.08`	`RoboPhred`	`nope, no different`
`21:39.23`	`Q_Continuum`	`Haha.`
`21:39.32`	`jadams_`	`alright, backing up my /etc/ppp directory to make sure I'll still have gprs when I reflash, and flashing with today's scaredycat image`
`21:39.33`	`Q_Continuum`	`Nope, I drank water before passing out. Don't need 'em :D`
`21:40.11`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`jadams_: Where are the scaredycat images?`
`21:41.00`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`looks like I'm reflashing too ... I'm hanging on boot, I think I stressed the neo out :P`
`21:42.27`	`jadams_`	`anyone here used the new gllin yet?`
`21:42.31`	`jadams_`	`does it need a chroot or anything?`
`21:42.35`	`quicksand`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: check the wiki at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories for where the images and ipkgs live.`
`21:43.02`	`quicksand`	`jadams_: the new gllin has the chroot packaged in the .ipk.`
`21:43.05`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`jadams_: It's all packaged together. I don't recall if it chroots`
`21:43.17`	`quicksand`	`Unfortunately it lives in your /home/root directory, but whatever. It works.`
`21:43.48`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: Thanks for the link. Have one for a dfu-util for Debian?`
`21:44.10`	`jadams_`	`quicksand, awesome, thanks`
`21:44.15`	`jadams_`	`didn't realize it was an ipk`
`21:44.24`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`The neo is impressively counting the time I hold the power button, but not doing anything else`
`21:45.10`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: It seems to keep a local log and a log of the gps in the home dir`
`21:45.16`	`nox-Hand`	`hrw\|gone: In the way that I hope it'll (the GTA02) will be out in December`
`21:45.18`	`nox-Hand`	`I want it :P`
`21:46.19`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`nox-Hand: Unless you can bring miraculous forces to bear, I would say December is out.`
`21:46.21`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`21:46.28`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`21:46.36`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Get an 01 in the meantime :D`
`21:47.11`	`RoboPhred`	`sadly, I dont have the money to bust ~900$ on 2 phones, have to wait until 02 comes out`
`21:47.19`	`nox-Hand`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: I am outta money for that =\|`
`21:47.34`	`nox-Hand`	`I don't even have the dosh to buy the 02 but screw that - I want this phone :D`
`21:47.36`	`prpplague`	`are most people using the neo truely as a phone, or just a dev platform?`
`21:47.49`	`*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953AC88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`21:48.09`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`If your a dev, you should have an 01 ;d`
`21:48.45`	`RoboPhred`	`qemu is good enough for me for now, until I can at least get it to do somthing interesting`
`21:48.54`	`RoboPhred`	`as in get a program onto it`
`21:49.11`	`kdean06`	`There not exactly mutually exclusive. :) Not all of the features of the phone work "truley as a phone" so they're developing them. :)`
`21:49.22`	`kdean06`	`They're*`
`21:50.27`	`balrog-kun`	`prpplague: i doubt anyone is using neo as a phone`
`21:50.51`	`RoboPhred`	`ah, thats why I was not seeing any changes...`
`21:51.00`	`RoboPhred`	`make qemu downloads a new image, it doesnt use the current one`
`21:51.08`	`RoboPhred`	`bugger`
`21:51.11`	`prpplague`	`balrog-kun: kinda what i figured`
`21:51.20`	`abraxa_`	`balrog-kun: Not quite true`
`21:51.29`	`prpplague`	`balrog-kun: whats the attraction to using it as a dev platform then?`
`21:51.43`	`quicksand`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: I have seen that counting-seconds behavior before when X crashes, but not recently. At the time I couldn't find any way to fix it other than to pull the battery. You might still be able to ssh in though.`
`21:51.58`	`RoboPhred`	`anyone know the output file of make image?`
`21:52.08`	`balrog-kun`	`abraxa_: that would be good news`
`21:52.50`	`abraxa_`	`balrog-kun: I'll use it as my main phone as soon as I can check whether openmoko-messages2 works well enough :)`
`21:52.52`	`balrog-kun`	`prpplague: it's not bad compared to other small ARM machines, performace-wise and memory size-wise`
`21:53.23`	`balrog-kun`	`it also looks quite cool`
`21:54.53`	`prpplague`	`balrog-kun: so it is your assertion that a platform with similiar features and appearance minus the phone options would be just as acceptable?`
`21:55.48`	`RoboPhred`	`good god, make flash-qemu-local just went insane`
`21:55.50`	`RoboPhred`	`"Writing data at 0x273f600 -- 35708928% "`
`21:56.12`	`borg_`	`prpplague: probably a lot of people here have the nokia n800, thats somehow a neo without gsm module ;)`
`21:56.15`	`balrog-kun`	`prpplague: acceptable as a development board?`
`21:56.33`	`prpplague`	`balrog-kun: yea`
`21:57.07`	`balrog-kun`	`prpplague: it's also that there's a kernel available for it, and that the software people manage to develop for this board will probably work on a fture very cool phone`
`21:57.36`	`*** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@adsl-69-149-59-81.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`21:57.48`	`balrog-kun`	`this you can't assure by just making a good hardware`
`21:58.10`	`prpplague`	`indeed`
`21:58.16`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: It's not an X crash .. I was actually ssh'd in, and I was getting "bus error" ... but now it's only getting part way through the boot`
`21:58.46`	`quicksand`	`Beats me then.`
`21:58.49`	`RoboPhred`	`thats odd, apparently the qemu flash worked properly, yet all the "% done" values were in the 8 digit range...`
`21:59.28`	`prpplague`	`balrog-kun: funny thing though is there are plenty of s3c2410 based boards with similiar features, but not in the formfactor as the neo`
`22:00.16`	`balrog-kun`	`prpplague: i think there aren't so many boards with 128MB, and at this price`
`22:00.40`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: I think that I filled up the filesystem. That'll teach me for fiddling with the updater :S`
`22:00.52`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`No biggie, I just need to reflash I'm sure`
`22:01.04`	`prpplague`	`balrog-kun: whats the neo retail for? $350 ?`
`22:02.08`	`RoboPhred`	`think its 450`
`22:02.17`	`balrog-kun`	`$300 or $450 iirc`
`22:02.24`	`balrog-kun`	`without debug board or with`
`22:02.36`	`mjr`	`that's correct for the 01`
`22:03.40`	`RoboPhred`	`wiki says 450 for base and 600 for adv (with debug board)`
`22:03.53`	`borg_`	`for GTA02`
`22:04.10`	`quicksand`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: Oh yeah, it doesn't take long to fill it up. Install to the card, HOTR-san.`
`22:04.11`	`RoboPhred`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973`
`22:04.15`	`RoboPhred`	`ya`
`22:04.58`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: Sure, tell me now :P`
`22:05.22`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`I actually moved and scp'd a bunch of stuff off, but I guess that wasn't enough`
`22:05.25`	`quicksand`	`Oh, I learned this the hard way too.`
`22:05.31`	`quicksand`	`First image: overfilled`
`22:05.47`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Nothing like hitting the wall to wake you up. :P`
`22:05.57`	`prpplague`	`balrog-kun: yea ram wise, the neo does have a pretty good base`
`22:06.19`	`quicksand`	`Second image: mounted a partition of the card at /usr (which is automounted late enough that booting doesn't work right)`
`22:06.23`	`prpplague`	`balrog-kun: you think most developers need the full extent of 128mb ram?`
`22:06.59`	`balrog-kun`	`prpplague: definitely not`
`22:07.06`	`quicksand`	`Third image: formatted a partition of the card as ext2, installed ipkg-link, and started installing pretty much everything to the card`
`22:07.08`	`balrog-kun`	`bu tpeople don't know what they need really :)`
`22:08.53`	`*** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org)`
`22:09.30`	`*** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com)`
`22:09.52`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Dumb question: Is there a .deb with DFU-util in it, or do i have to build one for Debian?`
`22:10.54`	`jadams_`	`umm`
`22:10.58`	`jadams_`	`I installed the gllin package`
`22:11.02`	`jadams_`	`it doesn't have start_dump in it`
`22:11.03`	`*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.131)`
`22:11.05`	`jadams_`	`anyone else seen this happen?`
`22:11.16`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: I was only 1/2 dumb ... I was saving my nmea output to the card :S`
`22:11.40`	`roh`	`HistoryOnTheRoad you can use the ones on downloads or buildhost. they are compiled static and self-sufficient`
`22:11.44`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`jadams_: you just type ./gllin from the gllin directory`
`22:12.57`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`roh: No need for libusb-dev? (crosses fingers)`
`22:13.13`	`roh`	`staic linked in`
`22:13.14`	`jadams_`	`HistoryOnTheRoad, but agpsui depends on that start_dump script being there (for the start button)`
`22:13.15`	`jadams_`	`sign...`
`22:13.20`	`roh`	`eh static built`
`22:14.04`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`jadams_: So don't use the UI for now ;)`
`22:14.19`	`roh`	`balrog-kun btw.. do you already have plans for emulating gta02? just popped my mind`
`22:14.28`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Sounds like the UI was built for the "unofficial" version of gllin that was floating around`
`22:14.46`	`*** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org)`
`22:14.47`	`josch`	`HistoryOnTheRoad, both versions are exactly the same`
`22:14.51`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`jadams_: It's a wrapper script, you could just create a link`
`22:15.06`	`jadams_`	`HistoryOnTheRoad, I know :)`
`22:15.35`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`josch: My ipkg didn't create start_dump, if I recall. But it's the same idea`
`22:16.20`	`josch`	`HistoryOnTheRoad, even the md5sums match`
`22:16.31`	`josch`	`those for gllin I mean`
`22:17.01`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Ah, you mean for the binary`
`22:17.07`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`That doesn't surprise me`
`22:18.00`	`josch`	`me neither ;-)`
`22:18.45`	`*** join/#openmoko ag0ny (n=sascha@213.157.2.194)`
`22:18.54`	`*** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz)`
`22:19.14`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`dfi-util in /sources doesn't seem to exist :(`
`22:19.40`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`What I'm disappointed about is GP not helping to do a new version of the driver.`
`22:21.06`	`RoboPhred`	`hoorah! got the changed into the qemu`
`22:21.30`	`quicksand`	`jadams_: If you start gllin manually, then run agpsui, it will work (but obviously the start button won't function)`
`22:22.56`	`ag0ny`	`good evening`
`22:23.15`	`*** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@pD953AC88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`22:31.14`	`balrog-kun`	`roh: yes, actually it was decided that it will be needed a couple of weeks ago and i'm working on it now, although it's not exactly gta02`
`22:32.36`	`balrog-kun`	`so this code will not be upstreamable :(`
`22:38.18`	`roh`	`oh.. why?`
`22:39.49`	`balrog-kun`	`roh: because it was deemed "not a priority" for now that the emulation be correct, the priority was set to be that GPS, wifi and accelerometers are visible to the guest, by mickey and john`
`22:39.56`	`balrog-kun`	`i partly agree with this`
`22:40.40`	`roh`	`yes... also makes sense (priority-wise)`
`22:41.30`	`balrog-kun`	`gta01 emulation stays there and is correct so this part is upstremable :)`
`22:42.04`	`balrog-kun`	`and the GPS, wiki, and accelerometers are being done in a way that they can be used for full gta02 emulation if it is decided to go for it`
`22:42.35`	`*** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.232.236)`
`22:42.50`	`balrog-kun`	`or if somebody else is implemeting, say, a TomTom Go emulation or some other board that uses the same chips`
`22:42.58`	`roh`	`ok.. thanks for the info`
`22:52.00`	`quicksand`	`Is there any way to configure gllin's log-generation behavior? It keeps putting all the NMEA data into a file that gets bigger . . . and bigger . . . even when there's no client using it.`
`22:53.36`	`balrog-kun`	`quicksand: i'm afraid no way known to anyone outside Global Locate`
`22:54.03`	`balrog-kun`	`you can however try to use a fifo instead of a file, or use logrotation or something using normal log daemons`
`22:54.53`	`quicksand`	`Hmph. Okay, that's what I was afraid of. Thanks.`
`22:55.01`	`*** join/#openmoko hiS_oWn (n=chatzill@adsl-75-26-140-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`22:55.16`	`hiS_oWn`	`so how's the openmoko project coming along?`
`22:56.24`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: Is this the file in /log, or the one in root's home dir?`
`22:57.31`	`anrp`	`just one?`
`22:58.21`	`quicksand`	`There's gps.gz in /home/root, and then 1431-N-20071130-GTA01-A3.log in /home/root/gllin/log`
`22:58.33`	`quicksand`	`Where the 1431 and 20071130 are obviously time and date`
`22:58.57`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`When OJW was here, we started talking about evil plans :)`
`22:59.04`	`*** join/#openmoko ifeel (n=ifeel@151.70.182.60)`
`22:59.16`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: They seem to be the same info ... I haven't double checked though`
`22:59.44`	`quicksand`	`Yeah, both seem to contain ASCII NMEA, and lots of it`
`23:00.14`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`I wrote some awk scripts to cut down on the crappareno that's in there.`
`23:00.36`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Every second you really don't need to know all of the satellite stuff, for instance.`
`23:00.43`	`quicksand`	`I should try linking them to tmpfs and have something delete them periodically`
`23:00.49`	`balrog-kun`	`can you replace the file with a fifo and have gllin write to the fifo?`
`23:01.35`	`balrog-kun`	`or would it be so stubborn as to remove the fifo and make a file on startup?`
`23:01.43`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: It might be possible to either link it to /dev/null or use a similarly constructed symbollic link ... but you'd have to know the pattern`
`23:02.03`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`balrog-kun: It writes a different filename each time :(`
`23:02.19`	`balrog-kun`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: ouch, in both direcotries?`
`23:02.40`	`balrog-kun`	`also does the gpsd need to poll the filesize all the while? or does it use inotify or something?`
`23:02.49`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`balrog-kun: naw, one is a cat of /dev/nemaPS I believe`
`23:02.56`	`mmontour`	`The help suggests a -nmea/+nmea option for the log file. I haven't tried it myself.`
`23:03.46`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`I asked Micheal about docs, and he said look in the /docs dir .. but alas, that is just full of Licence crap`
`23:03.52`	`anrp`	`what about the -crap_i_dont_need option`
`23:03.57`	`anrp`	`i say, it should be able to read my mind`
`23:03.58`	`anrp`	`:o`
`23:04.06`	`quicksand`	`anrp: That's what I'm looking for`
`23:04.13`	`balrog-kun`	`(that will be after executing the evil plan ofcourse)`
`23:04.45`	`peeps[work]`	`will gta02 have USB 2.0?`
`23:05.04`	`balrog-kun`	`afaik i nope`
`23:05.30`	`balrog-kun`	`s/i //`
`23:05.32`	`quicksand`	`mmontour: what help?`
`23:05.41`	`anrp`	`maybe he did a strings gllin`
`23:05.43`	`anrp`	`or similar`
`23:05.48`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Who was working on the reverse engineering of the driver, does anyone know?`
`23:05.49`	`anrp`	`or maybe there is an actual help screen ..`
`23:06.03`	`mmontour`	`quicksand: run the executable with a "-h"`
`23:06.21`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`mmontour: gpsd -h?`
`23:06.25`	`balrog-kun`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: ph5, Elrond..`
`23:06.56`	`mmontour`	`chroot gllin gllin.real -h`
`23:07.05`	`quicksand`	`gllin -h doesn't do anything other than start the program`
`23:07.16`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`balrog-kun: Are they still at it?`
`23:07.21`	`*** join/#openmoko mkmks (n=viv@nfrolov.dialup.corbina.ru)`
`23:07.27`	`*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.131)`
`23:07.44`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Is there any way I can mount a jffs image not on the neo?`
`23:07.47`	`balrog-kun`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: no idea`
`23:08.03`	`quicksand`	`But "strings gllin" turns up at least these options:`
`23:08.06`	`borg_`	`is there no bug in bugzilla concerning the echo at the other side when calling?`
`23:08.09`	`quicksand`	`gllin.real -low 5`
`23:08.11`	`balrog-kun`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: there's something called "mtd simluator" in the kernel for this purpose precisely`
`23:08.15`	`quicksand`	`gllin.real -periodic 1`
`23:08.53`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`borg_: Which "other side"?`
`23:09.04`	`oppiz`	`when the damn phone comng out!`
`23:09.18`	`borg_`	`the side, which one is talking too.. ;)`
`23:09.30`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`oppiz: It was out last week. You missed it, it's all sold out.`
`23:09.31`	`quicksand`	`Haha, gllin is just a script itself. One of its lines is cat /tmp/nmeaNP \|gzip >> /home/root/gps.gz &`
`23:09.41`	`oppiz`	`HistoryOnTheRoad, Damnit it`
`23:09.45`	`mmontour`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: I'm one of the guys working on RE`
`23:09.52`	`quicksand`	`So that dispenses with that part, at least.`
`23:10.00`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`mmontour: Is it still in progress?`
`23:10.21`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`balrog-kun: How do I access that? :)`
`23:10.45`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`balrog-kun: I'm sucking down the current jffs I have, and I want to extract some files from it`
`23:11.22`	`mmontour`	`Yes, I'm still working on it a bit, but I've been stuck for a while. The chip wasn't responding the way I expected.`
`23:12.05`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`mmontour: A large hammer might be helpful. :S`
`23:12.37`	`anrp`	`i think home depot is having a sale on sledgehammers :o`
`23:13.00`	`balrog-kun`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: i haven't used it but there may be tutorials on the netowrk or in Documentation/`
`23:13.07`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`mmontour: Mickey asked if people were willing to debug a binary ... I'm not sure if that effort could assist your effort at all`
`23:13.16`	`balrog-kun`	`you will definitely need to enable it in the kernel first and then issue some magic mount command`
`23:13.57`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`mount -t magic-jffs filename /mount/my/damn/image`
`23:14.09`	`anrp`	`pretty sure its more than that`
`23:14.11`	`anrp`	`well, more different`
`23:14.23`	`anrp`	`since you need to set up an mtd in kernel space, then load the image into it`
`23:14.27`	`anrp`	`then mount it`
`23:14.30`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`balrog-kun: Ok ... well, I'm making a copy ... we'll see if it's usable when I dig up the tutorial`
`23:14.33`	`anrp`	`like loopback but far more complicated`
`23:14.43`	`anrp`	`since mtd isn't block based at all`
`23:15.45`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Wonderful. I always love multi-step stuff. Adding to the problem stack is always good.`
`23:15.46`	`*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-9128dabb5f1bbf3f)`
`23:16.28`	`*** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@pD953AC88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`23:16.39`	`anrp`	`arm is one of the better arches to play around in asm with`
`23:16.47`	`*** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@78.16.49.81)`
`23:16.57`	`anrp`	`but you'd be best served to learn another as well since the branch bits in arm insn are pretty unique`
`23:17.29`	`anrp`	`steer clear of x86`
`23:17.32`	`balrog-kun`	`qemu might also be used to get data out of a jffs image`
`23:17.39`	`balrog-kun`	`or store data`
`23:17.49`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`I did a couple ASM languages years back. I can't type one in DEBUG in DOS anymore, but I understand the concepts stil`
`23:18.41`	`*** join/#openmoko peter_b (n=biertrin@p5B0C002F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`23:19.17`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`anrp: x86 isn't too bad, if you use gasm. But the pre 386 can be a cluster**** to the beginner`
`23:19.20`	`*** join/#openmoko ThePizzaKing (n=jeff@c220-239-221-132.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au)`
`23:19.52`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`TINY, SMALL, BIG ... damn, I can't remember the others.`
`23:19.58`	`_diego__`	`real mode x86 asm is quite insane to use ...`
`23:20.08`	`cesarb`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: medium and large?`
`23:20.21`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Thankfully they were just link instructions for most of my stuff`
`23:20.58`	`cesarb`	`_diego__: real mode _c_ is quite insane, unless everything fits in 64k data and 64k code (small model IIRC)`
`23:21.08`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`cesarb: Could be. knowing intel, they could be anything though.`
`23:21.21`	`cesarb`	`_diego__: having to decide whether you want near of far pointer...`
`23:21.42`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`ugh, overlays`
`23:21.44`	`_diego__`	`and trying to don't mix each others ^^`
`23:22.06`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`base pointer, instruction pointer.`
`23:22.08`	`cesarb`	`luckly, I skipped most of the madness, since my first box was a 386`
`23:22.13`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Wow, was that awful.`
`23:22.33`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`640 K should be enough for anybody - B. Gates.`
`23:22.43`	`_diego__`	`btw, i've written a good amount of asm code, for dos programs`
`23:22.53`	`cesarb`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: didn't we have that EMS fun? not to mention high memory...`
`23:22.57`	`anrp`	`yes, it was terrible, but thankfully tech has progressed such that there's (effectively) power to waste in even some of the smallest computers`
`23:23.22`	`anrp`	`in numerous cases`
`23:23.22`	`josch`	`starting gsmd gives only the following output http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m4523ee5d <= this is wrong! as a consequence neither libgsmd-tool nor the dialer can connect zu gsmd`
`23:23.36`	`cesarb`	`whenever your base integer size gets smaller than what you can address, it's madness. first real mode, later PAE.`
`23:24.44`	`balrog-kun`	`josch: humm, is ./gsmd gsmd or a some wrapper script?`
`23:24.58`	`_diego__`	`32 bit should be enough for anybody - me ... ^^`
`23:25.00`	`balrog-kun`	`josch: gsmd doesn't know what "start" m,eans as a parameter`
`23:25.22`	`josch`	`balrog-kun, I copied /etc/init.d/gsmd to my home folder and edited it so it doesn't deamonize and I see the output`
`23:25.28`	`cesarb`	`_diego__: 32 bits is enough until you get above 2G of memory...`
`23:25.50`	`josch`	`balrog-kun, I do this to have all the other init code executed`
`23:25.53`	`balrog-kun`	`josch: my guess would be bad commandline params`
`23:26.08`	`anrp`	`hopefully you won't need 2gb+ of memory in an assembly program :p`
`23:26.13`	`*** join/#openmoko zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`23:26.14`	`josch`	`balrog-kun, but I only use /etc/init.d/gsmd ???`
`23:26.46`	`josch`	`how can there be bad params?`
`23:27.11`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Let's see Vista run in THAT, Billy boy.`
`23:27.11`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`I doubt the bootloader fits in that anymore.`
`23:27.11`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`Ok, back to current insanity. ARM assembly.`
`23:27.12`	`_diego__`	`cesarb: 32 bits is enough until you need more of 4G-(some memory for the OS) of memory :)`
`23:27.55`	`*** join/#openmoko starox_ (n=fredo@sd-11162.dedibox.fr)`
`23:28.34`	`peeps[work]`	`what phones are there besides NEO that run linux?`
`23:28.40`	`peeps[work]`	`currently on the market`
`23:28.46`	`_diego__`	`motorola`
`23:28.48`	`Stephmw`	`peeps[work]: go look at linuxdevices.com`
`23:28.52`	`Stephmw`	`peeps[work]: they have a directory`
`23:29.10`	`_diego__`	`but not "free" as openmoko`
`23:30.04`	`_diego__`	`HistoryOnTheRoad: arm assembler is not too hard, but if quite confusing if u arrive from x86 asm`
`23:30.36`	`balrog-kun`	`josch: perhaps the file from conf.d doesn't get loaded so that some of the vars a re empty and gsmd doesn't set the hw flow control? (wild guess)`
`23:30.42`	`*** join/#openmoko quicksand (i=cwixon@gateway/tor/x-f3160e0272f3d508)`
`23:30.47`	`cesarb`	`_diego__: almost any instruction set is confusing if you arrive from x86 asm`
`23:30.48`	`balrog-kun`	`many other things could cause this`
`23:31.19`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`_diego__: No doubt. Thankfully, I did a few others in courses first, before being sulllied with half-baked and broken workarounds for addressing and such`
`23:31.31`	`_diego__`	`cesarb: not really... z80 and x86 are quite similar (except for segment register)`
`23:32.24`	`quicksand`	`OK, I squeezed gllin command-line-options out of it and put them on the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin#gllin_options`
`23:32.30`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net)`
`23:33.23`	`cesarb`	`_diego__: that's why the "almost" ;-)`
`23:34.35`	`*** join/#openmoko d1 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net)`
`23:35.01`	`HistoryOnTheRoad`	`quicksand: Merci buckets, nice job`
`23:35.20`	`_diego__`	`the most annoying in arm asm, (as in many risc asm) is that u can't use arbitrary constant directly`
`23:35.40`	`quicksand`	`I haven't tried yet, but it looks like we can turn off all that logging`
`23:37.36`	`_diego__`	`and the most annoying thing in neo1973, is that if u have battery full discharged, u have to wait some hour of charging before u can even boot`
`23:38.06`	`_diego__`	`(even if u connect it to your pc ^^)`
`23:38.26`	`balrog-kun`	`ad most annoying are all the users that complain :)`
`23:38.30`	`balrog-kun`	`*and`
`23:39.29`	`cesarb`	`quicksand: the manually using gps page has another option, -np, which seems quite interesting`
`23:43.09`	`cesarb`	`killall cat <- they didn't do it... they didn't do it...`
`23:43.55`	`quicksand`	`THOSE BASTARDS`
`23:45.47`	`*** part/#openmoko doughnut42 (n=goden@rrcs-67-79-195-201.sw.biz.rr.com)`
`23:47.11`	`quicksand`	`cesarb: that option is in the dump I posted. It's funny, -np means to turn ON the named pipe, where -pty means turn OFF pty and -nmea means turn OFF logging, whereas +np, +pty, and +nmea are the reverse.`
`23:47.33`	`quicksand`	`That's weird and inconsistent, and it makes me wonder whether the documentation is wrong.`
`23:48.25`	`cesarb`	`quicksand: it makes sense if in the source code they have variables called something like "named_pipe", "disable_pty", and "disable_nmea" ;-)`
`23:48.45`	`cesarb`	`quicksand: of course, to us which don't have the source, it seems inconsistent ;-)`
`23:49.15`	`quicksand`	`Heh, yeah. The care with which this code was crafted is becoming apparent.`
`23:49.37`	`quicksand`	`But I shouldn't complain, at least we HAVE a driver now.`
`23:50.48`	`mmontour`	`cesarb: it depends which side of the window you're on :)`
`23:51.32`	`cesarb`	`mmontour: I'm inside, on a floor tens of meters from the ground, with a quite wide window, and a building the other side of the street`
`23:53.42`	`RoboPhred`	`urg, this gtk change it taking ages, ~10 minutes per compile, and I am just tweaking things to see what they do`
`23:54.13`	`*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net)`
`23:59.03`	`gamin`	`what could I use for voice recording with the neo?`
`23:59.21`	`gamin`	`is there an app already in the feeds?`
`23:59.27`	`cesarb`	`brb, I'm going to a wide window with a better view of the sky to see if I can get a fix there`

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