| 00:00.49 | emdete | is there any earnest non-gllin activity underway? |
| 00:01.21 | daMaestro | or can we just have the damn bits? |
| 00:01.22 | daMaestro | lol |
| 00:01.31 | daMaestro | i really would like to see my GPS actually do *something* |
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| 00:03.42 | emdete | daMaestro: `cat /dev/ttySAC1` |
| 00:04.15 | daMaestro | blah |
| 00:04.15 | daMaestro | lol |
| 00:04.16 | daMaestro | thanks. |
| 00:04.32 | emdete | daMaestro: sry... you have no gllin? |
| 00:04.50 | daMaestro | no, afaik it was not shipped with my device and we can't "download" it |
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| 00:05.56 | emdete | really sad... i am a little bit disappointed about the performance of the gps and would like to share experiences... mine always looses 'connection'. |
| 00:06.28 | CM | I'll try harder tomorrow and see if I can get anywhere |
| 00:06.38 | CM | emdete: Tried with some kind of external antenna? |
| 00:06.57 | emdete | CM: 'get anywhere'? want to navigate with it? ;) |
| 00:07.12 | CM | Yeah, you could say that.. :P |
| 00:07.16 | emdete | CM: no, i didn't even know i can... where can i connect it? |
| 00:07.39 | CM | Not a clue yet.. :( |
| 00:07.44 | CM | But I want to find out |
| 00:08.09 | CoreDump | the golden connector on the side of the phone is said to be for a GPS antenna IIRC |
| 00:08.20 | CM | Yes, it is |
| 00:08.25 | emdete | CoreDump: really? i thought it's GSM |
| 00:08.29 | CM | But it says "Active antenna" |
| 00:09.22 | loufoque | will santa be able to bring me a GTA02 for christmas? |
| 00:09.51 | CVirus | I don't think so |
| 00:10.01 | CM | loufoque: Maybe if he get's help from all his helpers and wins the lottery at the same time |
| 00:10.10 | CM | But I doubt it.. |
| 00:10.41 | loufoque | so the GTA02 being released in december is a fake? |
| 00:10.49 | mmontour | daMaestro: http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/satscan/satacan_1.0-r0_armv4t.ipk will do "something" (very little) with your GPS |
| 00:11.08 | daMaestro | cool |
| 00:11.57 | mmontour | It just scans for signals from the satellites at different doppler shifts, and shows a character indicating signal strength |
| 00:12.03 | emdete | is there a typo in the url? is it satscan or satacan? |
| 00:12.30 | mmontour | satscan, sorry (X11 cut/paste is broken in OSX Leopard) |
| 00:12.32 | emdete | or even satancaned...? |
| 00:13.02 | emdete | what does it do - show satelites? |
| 00:13.04 | CM | emdete: http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/satscan/satscan_1.0-r0_armv4t.ipk |
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| 00:13.24 | emdete | CM: only joking.. |
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| 00:14.35 | CM | emdete: Heh, maybe time for me to get some sleep and really get rid of my cold so I can think straight :) |
| 00:17.28 | emdete | does someone know the fix for the gcc compile problem with mokomakefile? |
| 00:18.32 | CoreDump | gcc-cross-4.1.2? |
| 00:18.51 | emdete | yes, think so... (i restartet compile just a minute ago to check) |
| 00:19.02 | CoreDump | there is no fix yet |
| 00:19.15 | emdete | oups, so no way to compile something? |
| 00:19.47 | CoreDump | nope |
| 00:19.55 | CoreDump | with is bloody annoying |
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| 00:20.20 | emdete | didnt know it so earnest - someone working on it? what's behind it? |
| 00:21.08 | CoreDump | someone messed up an update involving the fortran compiler AFAICT |
| 00:21.22 | CoreDump | you could revert your tree two days or so |
| 00:21.25 | emdete | fortran? you are joking! |
| 00:21.37 | CoreDump | i wish :) |
| 00:22.12 | emdete | so we get fortran on the neo? wow... |
| 00:22.38 | mwester | Hey! Don't knock fortran. My first job was with an operating system written in FORTRAN IV. |
| 00:22.51 | emdete | what a pain |
| 00:23.24 | mwester | It's nice to see that somebody, somewhere, has seen the light after all these decades, and has **UPGRADED** the toolchain so that we can write an operating system in a **PROPER** language. Like FORTRAN IV. |
| 00:23.45 | nbd | why not INTERCAL? |
| 00:23.49 | emdete | mwester: nonono lets use ada |
| 00:23.57 | CoreDump | to bad he breaks the toolchain with basically every commit he does =) |
| 00:23.59 | nbd | gotta love COME FROM instead of GOTO |
| 00:24.53 | CoreDump | anyone got a known-working OE rev? |
| 00:25.04 | mwester | CoreDump: Yeah. I've noticed. I don't know who the gentleman is either, I haven't seem him about in #oe or on the mailing list. |
| 00:25.21 | CoreDump | same here |
| 00:26.14 | moko-bunny | this is cool...openmoko-messages actually kind of works for me :) ...a few bugs, but I managed to send and receive SMS's to/from a couple phones with a build I did about an hour ago |
| 00:26.45 | daMaestro | moko-bunny, good news ;-D |
| 00:27.04 | borg_ | i can confirm this ;) |
| 00:27.09 | daMaestro | overall i'm very satisfied with the progress being made on the platform |
| 00:27.12 | borg_ | tetsted it some hours ago too |
| 00:27.41 | daMaestro | i need to find/make a good case for it before using the neo1973 as my day to day phone |
| 00:27.43 | moko-bunny | yeah :) I think I need some kinda purge thing for my poor old ancient TDMA phone (don't laugh ;) ) I seem to have sent too big of a message to it :) |
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| 00:29.54 | CVirus | long time no community update |
| 00:29.56 | CVirus | updates* |
| 00:30.02 | mwester | Yeah. Silence. |
| 00:31.26 | moko-bunny | normally I'd say silence is golden, but I'd really like the gllin and gsm things wrapped up (sorry for whining) |
| 00:32.13 | CVirus | hehe |
| 00:32.44 | mwester | Well, we can get the GSM firmware upgraded by mailing the device to MichaelShiloh personally, IIRC. THe GSM thing is with the lawyers, so there's no predicting when or if that'll happen. And the 850 MHz -- well, I think FIC/OM have had plenty of time to consider that situation, and I think they know what they plan. |
| 00:33.03 | mwester | If they have good news, I guess I'd expect it to be announced, like, right about now. |
| 00:33.32 | mwester | If they have bad news, well, what's in it for them to announce it? |
| 00:35.42 | SpeedEvil | mew: maintaining some level of transparancy and belief in timelines. |
| 00:35.59 | moko-bunny | yeah, I've mulled sending my unit to Michael. I'm undecided on the 850. It looks like 1900 coverage is pretty thorough here in eastern washington (state), but I've found a few places I can't seem to get anything. |
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| 00:37.39 | mwester | I'll be sending mine in. T-Mobile doesn't do data on pay-as-you-go, and I'm paying *a lot* for my Cingular/AT&T SIM with the unlimited data plan for my real phone. |
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| 01:30.03 | Writchie | mwester: there no guarantee further firmware chages won't be required. |
| 01:30.52 | Writchie | the mux, for example, is basically working but not stress tested and some have reported some problems. |
| 01:31.06 | Writchie | mux on ti side, that is |
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| 01:33.35 | Writchie | anybody else have basic PM problems on 2.6.23? oops unregistering serial devices? |
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| 03:29.49 | ewon | time warner cable is a pile of shite |
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| 07:26.27 | impresive | äàðîôôôô |
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| 09:19.33 | Taco | Has anyone seen the following problem with their neo: I can make outgoing phone calls successfully, using the dialer GUI, and incoming calls produce a ring. But I can't answer the phone. Regardless of which icon I click on, the call does not get answered, and shows up in the "missed calls" list. |
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| 09:20.05 | CM | Heh, for me it doesn't ring, only buzz, but I can answer incoming calls |
| 09:20.20 | Taco | I'll trade ya... |
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| 09:31.59 | raster | moo |
| 09:32.12 | CM | :) |
| 09:32.50 | raster | (: |
| 09:33.04 | CM | Hehe.. I know you're "down under" already :P |
| 09:36.07 | raster | i am not under someone's desk |
| 09:36.14 | raster | (: |
| 09:36.21 | Q_Continuum | haha |
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| 09:45.48 | Taco | Does anyone know if the dropbear ssh client built into the standard rootfs distributions can forward X11 traffic? |
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| 09:47.40 | rwhitby | Taco: I don't think it can - that's why I always replace dropbear with openssh, for X11 and authentication agent forwarding. |
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| 09:49.22 | Taco | Thanks. THat's sorta what I thought needed to be done. Evidently, one can build dropbear in a way that allows X11 forwarding, but that does not appear to be what has been done in the standard OM distribution. |
| 09:49.54 | Taco | I'd rather have "real" ssh. |
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| 09:50.25 | CM | Taco: I think rwhitby wrote in his blog how to change to openssh :) |
| 09:50.43 | Taco | Cool - I'll look there. Thanks for the tip. |
| 09:51.28 | CM | Taco: http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/nslu2-linux/replacing-dropbear-with-openssh.html |
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| 09:52.05 | Taco | Gee - now that's service! Thanks again. |
| 09:52.25 | rwhitby | ~emulate rwhitby |
| 09:52.26 | apt | Another Satisfied Customer! |
| 09:53.12 | CM | ~praise rwhitby |
| 09:53.12 | apt | All hail rwhitby! |
| 09:53.16 | CM | :D |
| 09:53.33 | AzraiL | :)( |
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| 09:59.11 | Taco | Since I'm having good luck getting my questions answered, I'll risk asking another. Sometimes when I boot my neo, all works well, and I get a popup box saying it has connected to the GSM network. However, more often than not, after booting it shows many bars on the graphic signal strength indicator, but it never actually connects to the network. Nothing from gsmd shows up in /var/log/messages. Any idea what is wrong when it |
| 09:59.11 | Taco | has good signal strength, but doesn't connect to the network? |
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| 10:09.17 | Taco | It's absolutely amazing to see "ipkg install" work on a cell phone. |
| 10:09.44 | ljp | dont need to be registered to the network to actuall receive signal strength indications |
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| 10:11.35 | Taco | /etc/init.d/gsmd restart doesn't fix the problem, but rebooting sometimes does. Is there any way to interactively force a complete restart of the whole GSM software stack short of rebooting? |
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| 10:33.24 | Taco | Here's dumb question: What is the small, gold-plated connector roughly two centimeters above the USB port on the neo? |
| 10:33.42 | Taco | Make that 3 centimeters... |
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| 10:38.12 | tuukkah | Taco, external gps antenna connector |
| 10:38.33 | Taco | Oh. Thanks! |
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| 10:46.37 | tuukkah | i'll add connectors to the getting started wiki page |
| 10:47.08 | Taco | Tuukkah: You're a good man. |
| 10:47.48 | tuukkah | no prob, thanks! |
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| 11:10.38 | aapo | hi, is there easy way to connect network with openmoko running under qemu? |
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| 11:12.10 | CM | aapo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Setting_up_USB_connection |
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| 11:12.45 | CM | aapo: It's not very easy, but the steps are quite well described :) |
| 11:13.15 | NineX | someone tried to compile irssi for openmoko? |
| 11:13.48 | aapo | cm, thanks, i hoped there is something easier |
| 11:14.22 | IfChinsCouldKill | Any experience with kqemu? |
| 11:14.29 | CM | NineX: It's already in oe |
| 11:15.00 | NineX | CM: oe? (please explain - my english still sucka ;) ) |
| 11:15.10 | CM | Heh, it's not your english |
| 11:15.18 | CM | oe = OpenEmbedded |
| 11:15.30 | NineX | CM: ok |
| 11:15.39 | CM | The "distro buiding tool" that OpenMoko is using |
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| 11:15.53 | tuukkah | CM, for easier networking, what about say pppd over serial? |
| 11:15.58 | borg_ | NineX: if you have a neo you can install irssi with the application manager |
| 11:16.05 | borg_ | or with ipkg install irssi from the console |
| 11:16.32 | CM | tuukkah: Hmm.. Might be, but I don't know much about that stuff |
| 11:17.29 | tuukkah | aapo, would you be interested in that? |
| 11:17.34 | aapo | yes |
| 11:18.26 | NineX | borg_: thanks. |
| 11:18.47 | CM | Heh, irssi was smaller than I thought. Only 600k to install |
| 11:19.00 | aapo | tuukkah, I have qemu running, host system is ubuntu gutsy |
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| 11:19.34 | CM | NineX: If ipkg complains that it can't find the program, add ScaredyCat's repository: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories |
| 11:19.35 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.96.206) |
| 11:19.49 | NineX | what about screen orientation change? |
| 11:20.06 | CM | Hold in the aux button and select it from the menu :) |
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| 11:20.38 | NineX | CM: thanks for help i will have lot of fun with neo phone :> |
| 11:20.51 | CM | You're welcome :) |
| 11:21.12 | Taco | You will have fun. It's not a phone, it's a hobby! |
| 11:22.16 | tuukkah | aapo, i don't know if this is easy either. but it could be worth a try to use the qemu "-serial pty" option and then one pppd within qemu and one on the host |
| 11:22.38 | NineX | i'm thinkink about syslog change (writing logs into nand flash will decarase lifetime of this memory i think) |
| 11:23.05 | NineX | s/tinkik/thinking/ |
| 11:23.13 | NineX | s/i'm/i/ |
| 11:23.46 | balrog-kun | tuukkah: i think two pppd's won't work on the same modem |
| 11:24.36 | tuukkah | balrog-kun, what do you mean? of course on the different sides of the pty |
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| 11:25.19 | balrog-kun | tuukkah: oh, you mean without physiacl ppp connection? |
| 11:26.25 | tuukkah | pppd is point-to-point or peer-to-peer :-) |
| 11:26.50 | balrog-kun | cool |
| 11:27.17 | aapo | ok, I started qemu with -serial pty, now its waits (starting kernel...) |
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| 11:31.13 | NineX | apt: i will trye to reconfigure syslog to write log in microsd card, , cause if system make lot of logs better ides is put system log into microsd card (that can be changed) than use nand flash that habe 100000 erase cycles (i think) |
| 11:31.14 | apt | You will trye to reconfigure syslog to write log in microsd card, , cause if system make lot of logs better ides is put system log into microsd card (that can be changed) than use nand flash that habe 100000 erase cycles (i think)? |
| 11:31.35 | NineX | s/ides/idea/ |
| 11:33.41 | NineX | stupid bot :S |
| 11:33.46 | zilux | NineX: log are in tmpfs (log -> volatile/log) |
| 11:37.54 | Taco | Is tmpfs in RAM then? |
| 11:41.14 | tuukkah | aapo, qemu prints a pty file name when it starts, can you see what it is? |
| 11:42.19 | tuukkah | aapo, i see "char device redirected to /dev/pts/5" so the boot continues when i read from that with say "cat /dev/pts/5" |
| 11:45.27 | aapo | yes, now it starts |
| 11:46.00 | zilux | Taco: yes, more info: http://lxr.linux.no/source/Documentation/filesystems/tmpfs.txt |
| 11:46.25 | Taco | zilux: Thanks for the pointer. |
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| 11:52.50 | tuukkah | aapo, i'm getting some kind of a pppd connection by killing gsmd inside qemu and running pppd nodetach debug /dev/ttySAC0 |
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| 11:53.21 | tuukkah | then on the host pppd nodetach debug 192.168.100.1:192.168.100.2 noauth /dev/pts/5 |
| 11:53.41 | aapo | i will try |
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| 11:56.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1023 has been created by hns(AT)computer.org |
| 11:56.02 | cdbot2 | * * CDC/RNDIS Ethernet over USB driver provides random Ethernet address after each reboot which makes MacOS X config |
| 11:56.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1023 |
| 11:58.38 | tuukkah | hmm, ping 192.168.100.2 worked, but ssh root@192.168.100.2 was slow and eventually crashed the qemu... |
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| 11:59.05 | aapo | openmoko says "tcflush failed: bad file descriptor" "tcsetattr: invalid argumetn (line 1003)" |
| 12:00.59 | tuukkah | i think i got something like at some point and just tried again |
| 12:01.12 | aapo | now ping works |
| 12:01.12 | tuukkah | s/like/like that/ |
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| 12:01.51 | aapo | maybe host pppd must start first |
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| 12:04.20 | aapo | i got ssh working moko -> host |
| 12:04.36 | tuukkah | did you try in the other direction? |
| 12:04.51 | aapo | but, now qemu crashes |
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| 12:05.15 | tuukkah | ok, so same as here :-( |
| 12:05.27 | aapo | but this is good start |
| 12:05.44 | tuukkah | yeah, it works pretty easily... in theory :-) |
| 12:06.12 | aapo | yes, next step will be network redirecting |
| 12:06.24 | aapo | i meen internet sharing |
| 12:06.28 | tuukkah | i'm now trying with "-serial vc -serial pty" so the kernel output and gsmd won't interfere |
| 12:06.49 | tuukkah | aapo, that should be easy. i'm more worried about the qemu crash |
| 12:06.53 | edistar | is it possible to access the internet with OM through qemu? |
| 12:07.17 | tuukkah | edistar, it is, but we're trying to find an easy way |
| 12:07.51 | edistar | tuukkah: ok, cool |
| 12:08.00 | tuukkah | edistar, seems the current suggested way is this a bit complicated http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QEMU#Setting_up_USB_connection |
| 12:08.34 | edistar | yes, it's a bit of work |
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| 12:26.08 | aapo | I tried ssh host -> moko. connected succesfully, but almost immediatly qemu crashed (segmentation fault) |
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| 12:27.29 | tuukkah | aapo, how recent versions do you have of qemu and openmoko? |
| 12:28.03 | tuukkah | also, did you try the two "-serial" options? |
| 12:29.48 | aapo | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu |
| 12:30.00 | aapo | i made that ubuntu magic |
| 12:30.38 | aapo | so the openmoko is newest, but i do not know my qemus version |
| 12:32.08 | tuukkah | aapo, actually, the other way ;-) that will build the latest qemu, but use "the lastest release" of openmoko |
| 12:34.01 | aapo | i did not try two -serial options |
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| 12:36.04 | tuukkah | i didn't have luck, perhaps because my qemu is old, but with "-serial vc -serial pty" the pty should be visible in the emulator as /dev/ttySAC1 |
| 12:38.01 | aapo | ok, if you find something, write it to wiki |
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| 12:43.26 | PBeck | hi |
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| 13:31.06 | tuukkah | aapo_away, seems to work fine that way |
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| 13:51.32 | balrog-kun | hmm the segfault shouldn't happen |
| 13:52.56 | balrog-kun | it might not work with ttySAC0 because kernel dumps dmesg there and because the modem is there but SAC1 should be ok |
| 13:53.27 | tuukkah | yeah, SAC1 seems to work fine |
| 13:54.33 | tuukkah | do you think it's somehow possible to use SAC2 or something that won't conflict with gps in the future? |
| 13:54.33 | rangen | is there a discussion about out of memory handling in openmoko somewhere? |
| 13:54.51 | balrog-kun | tuukkah: yes, ttySAC2 should also work |
| 13:55.53 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p508B1792.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:55.56 | balrog-kun | -serial stdio -serial none -serial /dev/ptswhatever |
| 13:56.49 | tuukkah | balrog-kun, i created /dev/ttySAC2 too, but can't use it: No such device or address |
| 13:57.52 | tuukkah | actually i used "-serial null", "void device" |
| 13:59.29 | balrog-kun | ah, the om kernel registers only two ports |
| 13:59.55 | balrog-kun | it may be possible to override it from boot params line |
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| 14:00.22 | balrog-kun | but likely isn't :/ |
| 14:00.33 | tuukkah | so perhaps for now SAC1 is fine |
| 14:01.49 | balrog-kun | SAC1 is unused as long as /sys/devices/platform/gta01.gps-pm/power reads 0 |
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| 14:12.58 | tuukkah | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Simple_network_connection_with_pppd |
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| 14:16.31 | balrog-kun | cool |
| 14:16.33 | balrog-kun | tuukkah: thanks |
| 14:16.55 | edistar | tuukkah: did you write that just now? |
| 14:17.00 | tuukkah | yeah |
| 14:17.03 | edistar | cool |
| 14:17.04 | edistar | thx |
| 14:17.10 | tuukkah | np |
| 14:18.48 | borg_ | someone here who wants to test my display lock? :) |
| 14:19.24 | tuukkah | i'd love to if i wasn't busy right now |
| 14:19.32 | borg_ | ;) |
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| 14:21.27 | tuukkah | hmm, do we ship three or four pairs of the earbud rubber parts? |
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| 14:25.57 | PBeck | borg_: ui have you screenshots? :) |
| 14:26.15 | borg_ | http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/openmoko-display-lock-readme.txt |
| 14:26.20 | PBeck | i have no neo, sorry :( |
| 14:26.31 | borg_ | i need someone who makes me some images too :) |
| 14:27.05 | borg_ | something like a key and key hole or a cat and a basket |
| 14:27.12 | borg_ | something that one can put in another thing.. ;) |
| 14:27.26 | tuukkah | PBeck, there's a screenshot linked: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/some_dragging.png |
| 14:27.50 | tuukkah | borg_, so you got drag and drop working ?-) |
| 14:27.54 | borg_ | yes |
| 14:27.58 | borg_ | it works totally nice :) |
| 14:28.00 | borg_ | imo ;) |
| 14:28.06 | borg_ | but i need some pictures |
| 14:28.23 | edistar | borg_: you need a video! |
| 14:28.52 | borg_ | omg, i cant even make images for it.. ;) |
| 14:28.53 | _buz | isnt there a qtopia video that shows that |
| 14:29.15 | borg_ | edistar: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/neod_0.1.0+svnr3421-r6_neo1973.ipk |
| 14:29.18 | borg_ | you can test it for yourself ;) |
| 14:29.21 | PBeck | borg_: hehe cool :) |
| 14:29.39 | PBeck | tuukkah: thanks, i have found it in the readme :) |
| 14:31.03 | tuukkah | what would be a fancier name than 'hole' for the place where the microphone is located on the case? |
| 14:31.31 | borg_ | plug? |
| 14:32.00 | tuukkah | no i mean there's this hole that goes through the phone, where you can attach the lanyard too |
| 14:32.07 | borg_ | ah |
| 14:32.09 | tuukkah | the loop? |
| 14:32.09 | borg_ | mh |
| 14:32.18 | PBeck | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Quicksand#zedlock borg_ |
| 14:32.25 | PBeck | thats a good solution too :) |
| 14:32.28 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: "oval opening"? |
| 14:33.20 | borg_ | PBeck: but mine is ready :P |
| 14:33.26 | tuukkah | abraxa_, thanks! |
| 14:33.28 | borg_ | but i can put some status information in it too |
| 14:34.22 | PBeck | borg_: yes ;) |
| 14:35.02 | PBeck | borg_: i like your idea, you need only a few graphics ;) |
| 14:35.12 | PBeck | borg_: see qtopia for example |
| 14:35.18 | PBeck | key in keyhole |
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| 14:43.06 | tuukkah | entering pin would be too boring? |
| 14:43.28 | PBeck | tuukkah: that should be possible too, i think |
| 14:43.46 | PBeck | that should be a good security solution |
| 14:44.04 | tuukkah | while we're at it, why not require solving a sudoku ;-) |
| 14:44.25 | borg_ | i dont want to enter my pin every time the display of my phone gets locked |
| 14:44.27 | borg_ | dont know |
| 14:44.36 | borg_ | but we can make it user configureable |
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| 14:44.58 | borg_ | but then, there is no settings application at all at the moment... ;) |
| 14:45.00 | tuukkah | yeah i think that's something that should be configurable |
| 14:45.15 | tuukkah | for now, what you have is cool |
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| 14:45.57 | borg_ | mickey|sports: where should i put patches for neod? |
| 14:46.00 | PBeck | borg_: yes of course configurable |
| 14:46.37 | tuukkah | borg_, have you checked if there's already a bugzilla entry for screen lock? |
| 14:46.44 | abraxa_ | borg_: Bugzilla :) |
| 14:46.59 | borg_ | ok |
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| 14:49.01 | ScaredyCat | borg_: you have a .bb ? |
| 14:49.34 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: yes |
| 14:49.49 | ScaredyCat | are you sharing it :) |
| 14:50.52 | borg_ | patches: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/patches/ |
| 14:51.02 | borg_ | bb: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/neod_svn.bb |
| 14:51.14 | borg_ | the images are in here too: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/ |
| 14:51.18 | borg_ | but they are bad |
| 14:51.26 | borg_ | i hope someone can make some nice looking :) |
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| 14:53.57 | abraxa_ | borg_: To unlock, one has to drag the white box from bottom to top? |
| 14:54.02 | borg_ | yes |
| 14:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 14:54.51 | borg_ | abraxa_: you could drag a key in a keyhole ar a cat in a basket or something |
| 14:54.56 | borg_ | but i cant make images :) |
| 14:55.03 | abraxa_ | Ah |
| 14:55.36 | borg_ | abraxa_: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/openmoko-display-lock-readme.txt |
| 14:56.18 | borg_ | here we are: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=572 |
| 14:57.17 | abraxa_ | Hmm |
| 14:59.05 | abraxa_ | Personally, I'd prefer using zedlock and while hardcoding this feature in neod works for now, it can't be the long-term solution |
| 14:59.39 | abraxa_ | So if you have the time it would be nice if you could create d-bus bindings within neod and a lock-daemon that acts on these d-bus events |
| 15:00.14 | abraxa_ | That would make things flexible and future-proof :) |
| 15:00.31 | borg_ | abraxa_: yes, neod is bad :) |
| 15:00.34 | tuukkah | is d-bus needed or is it enough to run a program which returns 0 to unlock or non-0 to keep locked |
| 15:00.35 | roh | gnome-screensaver-api via dbus? |
| 15:00.53 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: d-bus will be better |
| 15:00.56 | roh | has all the features |
| 15:01.03 | *** part/#openmoko trolo (n=dani@62.216.222.132) |
| 15:01.19 | abraxa_ | roh: Good idea... so we just need d-bus bindings for that in neod? |
| 15:01.24 | tuukkah | roh, if it has pluggable unlocking, that's great |
| 15:02.33 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 15:03.20 | borg_ | the question is how neod should look like in the future |
| 15:03.43 | tuukkah | did some reorg and added http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#Interconnections |
| 15:03.48 | abraxa_ | borg_: neod will go |
| 15:05.12 | tuukkah | hmm, before "Getting shell access", there should perhaps be a section about how to use the gui %-) |
| 15:05.39 | borg_ | abraxa_: where will it go? ;) |
| 15:05.56 | roh | http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-screensaver/trunk/src/gs-listener-dbus.h?revision=994&view=markup |
| 15:06.04 | roh | http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-screensaver/trunk/src/gs-listener-dbus.c?revision=1294&view=markup |
| 15:06.17 | roh | pretty simple interface.. |
| 15:06.38 | roh | "org.gnome.ScreenSaver" |
| 15:11.04 | abraxa_ | wb mickeyl - got any comments on the issue? |
| 15:12.12 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k559.webspeed.dk) |
| 15:13.47 | mickeyl | issues? |
| 15:14.10 | mickeyl | what are we talking about? |
| 15:15.12 | mickeyl | aha, something in between suspend and dim-only |
| 15:15.22 | mickeyl | lock-but-don't-suspend, so to speak |
| 15:15.27 | borg_ | mickeyl: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=572 |
| 15:16.32 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 15:16.33 | mickeyl | aha |
| 15:16.37 | mickeyl | wrong component |
| 15:16.46 | mickeyl | that's why i didn't got that bug |
| 15:16.50 | *** join/#openmoko aknotz (n=anton@host-82-119-141-194.stv.ru) |
| 15:19.23 | *** join/#openmoko demaledetti (n=ste@151.82.12.121) |
| 15:20.22 | mickeyl | no comments offhand, need to think about it. doing some work on gsm applet atm. |
| 15:21.11 | borg_ | mickeyl: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/neod_0.1.0+svnr3421-r6_neo1973.ipk |
| 15:21.17 | borg_ | if you want to test it shortly ;) |
| 15:22.06 | tuukkah | mickeyl, could you check the component of this old bug too: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=847 |
| 15:23.11 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k559.webspeed.dk) |
| 15:23.11 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D86C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:23.47 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.177) |
| 15:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@dsl51B66462.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 15:25.07 | borg_ | abraxa_: i could deamonize neod and add dbus bindings and outsource the aux/power menu and the lock display, but i wont do it when neod will go anyway :) |
| 15:25.55 | borg_ | so it is like with every other application in openmoko, no information about the future of them at all. |
| 15:26.30 | tuukkah | borg_, there's the neod readme: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/README?view=auto |
| 15:27.09 | borg_ | ..and what does it say? |
| 15:27.29 | borg_ | there might be something somewhere |
| 15:27.42 | borg_ | it doesnt say what should be done |
| 15:28.00 | tuukkah | right, no definite plan |
| 15:28.08 | mickeyl | borg_: will test, thsnk |
| 15:29.04 | mickeyl | tuukkah: hmm, 847 is interesting. i'm not sure which component should trigger the shutdown though. that might be a task for neod |
| 15:29.35 | borg_ | mickeyl: can you say something about the future of neod? |
| 15:29.45 | borg_ | i am willing to deamonize it and make some dbus bindings |
| 15:30.06 | borg_ | but only if it wont be replaced by something else in 1 month or so.. ;) |
| 15:30.11 | mickeyl | borg_: sounds like a good plan |
| 15:30.39 | mickeyl | my plan is to replace it with a generic peripheral and power management daemon, however this won't happen in 1 month |
| 15:30.54 | mickeyl | so i think improving neod is a good thing, because that's what works now# |
| 15:32.58 | goxboxlive | hi mickeyl : In the latest openmoko images i dont have any gtkrc file. I want to test the moko-engine on htcuniversal because of speed issue. Do you know how i do that? |
| 15:34.49 | abraxa_ | goxboxlive: The gtkrc file for the moko-GTK-engine should be installed to a specific theme upon installation of the engine |
| 15:35.37 | mickeyl | goxboxlive: set the theme via gconf |
| 15:35.50 | goxboxlive | thanks both, i'll test |
| 15:36.27 | abraxa_ | goxboxlive: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/Makefile.am?rev=3398&view=markup |
| 15:36.39 | mickeyl | gconftool-2 --type string --set /desktop/poky/interface/theme Moko |
| 15:36.41 | mickeyl | should be it |
| 15:36.53 | *** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 15:37.21 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieeface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k559.webspeed.dk) |
| 15:41.26 | mickeyl | is anyone else seeing gsmd oscillating between non-connected and connected ? |
| 15:41.38 | borg_ | mickeyl: yes |
| 15:41.48 | mickeyl | this is new, isn't it? |
| 15:41.49 | borg_ | thats the normal behavior of gsmd since 2 month |
| 15:41.52 | borg_ | no |
| 15:41.53 | borg_ | :) |
| 15:41.57 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 15:42.03 | mickeyl | i wonder what's wrong there |
| 15:42.19 | mickeyl | i mean this is sent by network |
| 15:42.25 | mickeyl | so it can't really be gsmd at fault here |
| 15:43.12 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 15:43.14 | mickeyl | well |
| 15:43.23 | mickeyl | why are we constantly sending SMS commands? |
| 15:43.42 | mickeyl | maybe these are triggering the network reregistration |
| 15:44.17 | hdr | are there any news about car-navigation with openmoko? |
| 15:44.23 | mickeyl | hmm, let me see what happens if I patch this out |
| 15:44.53 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: we are seding some sms setup commands on every network registration because they can't be sent before that |
| 15:45.00 | borg_ | hdr: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 15:45.04 | borg_ | look at pyroute |
| 15:45.07 | borg_ | looks nice imo :) |
| 15:45.12 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: in current svn i think we also send them spuriously on evry cell change |
| 15:46.25 | mickeyl | ooh |
| 15:46.31 | mickeyl | that could be possible |
| 15:46.45 | mickeyl | could they trigger network reregistration |
| 15:46.46 | mickeyl | ? |
| 15:46.59 | mickeyl | i'm trying to identify the cause, not the effect |
| 15:47.00 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: they shouldn't |
| 15:47.05 | *** join/#openmoko dinamich (n=damjan@ub141-7.static.adsl.volja.net) |
| 15:47.25 | mickeyl | i remember that last time i looked, it stayed connected for long when i didn't move |
| 15:47.32 | mickeyl | s/connected/registrated/ |
| 15:48.22 | balrog-kun | they can cause unwanted call disconnection, which why there are patches for it on the gsmd list ;) |
| 15:48.58 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush_ (n=Gybrush@f053153129.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:49.22 | hdr | borg_: nice ;) what's about maps of germany? i guess you're german? |
| 15:50.08 | borg_ | hdr: yes, i am german, but i dont know what maps they are using |
| 15:51.04 | hdr | (names |
| 15:51.25 | hdr | borg_: ok danke ;) |
| 15:51.26 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: ok, then this will probably be applied soon |
| 15:51.41 | mickeyl | for now i really need to find out how to fix this continuous reregistration |
| 15:51.45 | ScaredyCat | borg_: check out scap |
| 15:52.29 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: nice ! |
| 15:52.29 | borg_ | :D |
| 15:52.33 | borg_ | i like it |
| 15:53.04 | ScaredyCat | not sure what 'south' should represent |
| 15:53.59 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: got a link to the mail where you posted this patch? |
| 15:55.01 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@218.4.143.117) |
| 15:56.43 | mickeyl | jserv--: i have a problem with gsmd |
| 15:57.11 | balrog-kun | one sec |
| 15:57.14 | mickeyl | jserv--: i don't know when it started, but it looks like it's constantly dropping registration and reregistration |
| 15:57.24 | mickeyl | jserv--: i.e. even if i don't move |
| 15:57.32 | jserv-- | mickeyl, ouch |
| 15:57.38 | mickeyl | any idea what could cause it? |
| 15:57.41 | Stephmw | mickeyl: network trying to tell you to stay out? |
| 15:57.57 | *** join/#openmoko bubbi (i=bubbi@90.184.128.67) |
| 15:58.00 | jserv-- | mickeyl, it seems that we have to figure out the problem by monitoring TI debug tool. |
| 15:58.02 | mickeyl | Stephmw: network sending CREG=0, then immediately sending reergistrating |
| 15:58.17 | mickeyl | let me post you something |
| 15:58.27 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: turns out i didn't post a patch, but posted a pointer to it in http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-October/000299.html |
| 15:59.13 | mickeyl | jserv--: this is with moko5 firmware |
| 15:59.21 | mickeyl | http://pastebin.ca/796919 |
| 15:59.38 | mickeyl | creg0, creg1, creg0, creg1 |
| 15:59.46 | mickeyl | without me sending any commands nor moving the station |
| 16:01.02 | jserv-- | mickeyl, ok, I'll check it tomorrow. |
| 16:01.31 | ScaredyCat | ditched the south - or at least made it black borg_ ... |
| 16:01.46 | mickeyl | jserv--: ok. for reference, it's |
| 16:01.48 | mickeyl | !ombug 1024 |
| 16:01.50 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 1024, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 16:01.51 | cdbot2 | * * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: gsm modem oscillating between registrated / not-registrated |
| 16:01.52 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1024 |
| 16:01.52 | ScaredyCat | not 'black borg_' |
| 16:01.59 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: this is strange |
| 16:02.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1024 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de |
| 16:02.02 | cdbot2 | * * gsm modem oscillating between registrated / not-registrated |
| 16:02.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1024 |
| 16:02.14 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: indeed. worrying me |
| 16:02.17 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: looks good :) |
| 16:02.18 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: could my hardware be faulty? |
| 16:02.23 | borg_ | can you send me the pictures? |
| 16:02.29 | ScaredyCat | sure |
| 16:02.31 | borg_ | i will include them in the ipk |
| 16:02.35 | borg_ | olaf@uni-paderborn.de |
| 16:02.48 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: i don't know, is there a way to check if it happens on a different phone with the same sim? |
| 16:03.35 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: hmm, yes. i have one other neo. |
| 16:03.43 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: and it works ok for you? |
| 16:04.04 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: no, i mean some mass market phone :) |
| 16:04.15 | mickeyl | oh |
| 16:04.21 | balrog-kun | but i guess it may be happening silently and other phones may not let the user know at all |
| 16:04.35 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 16:04.37 | mickeyl | _however_ |
| 16:04.47 | mickeyl | i think i didn't see this previously |
| 16:05.12 | ScaredyCat | borg_: yeah, works well... |
| 16:05.16 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/lock-images.tar.gz |
| 16:05.22 | borg_ | ok :) |
| 16:07.51 | ScaredyCat | brb |
| 16:08.02 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 16:08.12 | Risto | Hi there, currently trying to compile OM, but it fails to build xserver-kdrive-1.3.0.0 -> http://pastebin.com/d60d412ae Anybody know how to solve this? |
| 16:08.15 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: i notice in your log AT+COPS hasn't been issued yet? |
| 16:08.33 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: this is just an excerpt |
| 16:08.41 | mickeyl | at+cops has been sent |
| 16:09.07 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.214.177) |
| 16:09.11 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: but AT%CPI is there and AT+COPS i think should be later but i may be wrong |
| 16:10.42 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: please see the corresponding libgsmd-tool log |
| 16:10.46 | mickeyl | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1024 |
| 16:10.55 | mickeyl | i did AT+COPS manually to be sure it has been issued |
| 16:11.04 | mickeyl | and it shows the oscillation as well |
| 16:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko zecke|flu (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 16:11.21 | ScaredyCat | Risto: clean xserver-kdrive |
| 16:11.26 | mickeyl | this is a completely new behavour, i never have seen this problem |
| 16:11.50 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: hmm i see |
| 16:12.03 | balrog-kun | i haven't seen this behaviour before either |
| 16:12.12 | mickeyl | ok, thanks |
| 16:12.17 | mickeyl | may be my hardware |
| 16:12.23 | mickeyl | because i also have seen some other strange things |
| 16:12.30 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FD184.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:12.30 | mickeyl | CME Error: 23 |
| 16:12.32 | mickeyl | uh oh |
| 16:12.38 | mickeyl | "Memory Failure" |
| 16:12.41 | mickeyl | did you see that one? |
| 16:12.59 | balrog-kun | ouch, nope never |
| 16:13.02 | mickeyl | ok |
| 16:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-164-176.37-151.net24.it) |
| 16:13.07 | mickeyl | looks like hardware failure then |
| 16:13.10 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
| 16:13.23 | balrog-kun | also CSQ: 12, 99 is pretty much at the border of useable signal quality i think |
| 16:14.01 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.31.81) |
| 16:14.37 | ScaredyCat | Risto: if you are using the mokomakefile then : make clean-package-renderproto; make clean-package-xserver-kdrive |
| 16:14.43 | mickeyl | hmm, so perhaps the antenna? |
| 16:15.06 | ScaredyCat | not just a bad signal? |
| 16:15.13 | mickeyl | no |
| 16:15.21 | mickeyl | like i said i'm working here since long |
| 16:15.25 | Stephmw | balrog-kun: get the impression it's swapping between base stations? |
| 16:15.31 | mickeyl | and never have seen this |
| 16:15.38 | PBeck | hdr: the mapdata is from openstreetmap |
| 16:15.40 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 16:15.46 | mickeyl | Stephmw: you mean multiple base stations, same cell id? |
| 16:15.49 | PBeck | hdr: see http://www.openstreetmap.org |
| 16:15.51 | ScaredyCat | no, but if power has failed to a tower, then you;d have issues |
| 16:15.51 | hdr | PBeck: thx |
| 16:15.57 | Stephmw | mickeyl: *nod* |
| 16:16.00 | mickeyl | oh |
| 16:16.21 | mickeyl | i didn't know that existed |
| 16:16.24 | PBeck | hdr: help and create your city ;) |
| 16:16.32 | mickeyl | i was under the impression, every base station corresponds to a cell |
| 16:16.37 | mickeyl | there goes my gsm knowledge |
| 16:16.38 | mickeyl | heh |
| 16:16.38 | balrog-kun | i didn't know either |
| 16:16.45 | balrog-kun | but it's reporting %CSQ: 99, 99 in between, which means no signal at all |
| 16:16.50 | ScaredyCat | Stephmw: from the same providr? |
| 16:16.58 | Stephmw | mickeyl: I can confirm this for sure tomorrow |
| 16:17.10 | hdr | PBeck: as soon as i have the openmoko ;) |
| 16:17.14 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: it's a bit bizarre, agreed |
| 16:17.26 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: it could also be a software glitch on a single station |
| 16:17.27 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: are you geographically in the same place as alway also? |
| 16:17.32 | balrog-kun | :) |
| 16:18.06 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: god knows, the agent systems for managing slot allocation and connectivity don't just depend on signal strength |
| 16:18.15 | PBeck | hdr: hehe i track my city since the last weeks ;) |
| 16:18.16 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: yes. not moving. |
| 16:18.28 | PBeck | hdr: one german city more in openstreetmap ;) |
| 16:18.35 | ScaredyCat | strange shit ! |
| 16:18.35 | hdr | PBeck: how does it work? |
| 16:18.36 | *** join/#openmoko ifchinscouldkill (n=ifchinsc@p5B107119.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:18.56 | SpeedEvil | hdr: you basically take a GPS track you've made |
| 16:19.00 | balrog-kun | PBeck: using the Neo? |
| 16:19.09 | ScaredyCat | right |
| 16:19.11 | borg_ | there are just a dozen of streets from the city where i live in openstreetmap :( |
| 16:19.13 | SpeedEvil | hdr: then upload it to the server, and trace over it using an editor |
| 16:19.31 | hdr | SpeedEvil: hm no gps-mouse :/ |
| 16:19.31 | SpeedEvil | hdr: or you trace from ariel imagery - yahoo allows this |
| 16:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 16:20.20 | PBeck | hdr: you collect with a gps reciever tracks and trace it with josm or potlach (online editor) and describe the streets |
| 16:20.23 | SpeedEvil | (for GPS/bluetooth GPS logging onbly) |
| 16:20.41 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: you could do it with a theodolite if you're feeling retero. |
| 16:20.57 | balrog-kun | has someone successfully contributed to openstreetmap using Neo? |
| 16:21.01 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 16:21.05 | hdr | only gps-receiver, my dad has is in his car ;) |
| 16:21.14 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:21.22 | balrog-kun | SpeedEvil: cool, i will need to try it too |
| 16:21.27 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@121.246.172.117) |
| 16:21.29 | PBeck | balrog-kun: i havent a neo ;) |
| 16:21.46 | Stephmw | mickeyl: do you have an areaid for your cellid? |
| 16:21.47 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: theodolite? |
| 16:21.54 | balrog-kun | i have no other GPS than the one in my neo |
| 16:22.01 | Stephmw | mickeyl: turns out cellids are only unique within an area |
| 16:22.09 | rxr | SpeedEvil: is there now something to parse the numbers from the GPS chip ? |
| 16:22.25 | Stephmw | mickeyl: sooo... if your primary station's coverage shrinks, you could be entering another areaid quite easily |
| 16:22.31 | balrog-kun | Stephmw: "000F","0343" this is mickeyl's |
| 16:23.16 | Stephmw | balrog-kun: hmmm, yeah |
| 16:23.22 | Stephmw | balrog-kun: so same op, same area |
| 16:23.23 | SpeedEvil | rmoravcik: no - just the binary driver |
| 16:24.06 | rxr | SpeedEvil: I thought the binary driver is not re-distributable? |
| 16:24.13 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: you basically measure the angles between known reference points, and use lots of telescopic observations to determine a position. |
| 16:24.25 | SpeedEvil | rxr: it's not |
| 16:24.32 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: lol |
| 16:24.46 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: it's what they used to use. |
| 16:24.55 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: thats a brilliant idea :> |
| 16:25.02 | PBeck | i only need the hardware :> |
| 16:25.12 | PBeck | perhaps its easier with gps ;) |
| 16:25.22 | rxr | SpeedEvil: can this binary blob be "found" somewhere ? |
| 16:25.54 | borg_ | rxr: if you post your email adress here, perhaps someone will accidantially send it to you |
| 16:25.57 | borg_ | :X |
| 16:26.23 | balrog-kun | SpeedEvil: is there a guide to using Neo with openstreetmap? |
| 16:26.48 | SpeedEvil | As to tracks: http://openstreetmap.org/traces/tag/fife |
| 16:26.58 | balrog-kun | rxr: i saw it on someone's website downloadable |
| 16:27.27 | borg_ | SpeedEvil: look scap |
| 16:27.50 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide is the basic guide from OSM |
| 16:28.02 | borg_ | the mouse is to hard to see i guess |
| 16:28.13 | SpeedEvil | Then http://www.mauve.plus.com/dogll is my trivial wrapper script |
| 16:28.16 | borg_ | and the alpha channel is flickering when moving :( |
| 16:29.05 | balrog-kun | SpeedEvil: thanks |
| 16:29.21 | SpeedEvil | borg_: scap? |
| 16:29.37 | borg_ | SpeedEvil: sorry, e meant ScaredyCat |
| 16:29.47 | borg_ | s/e/i/ |
| 16:29.52 | borg_ | lol |
| 16:29.52 | borg_ | :) |
| 16:30.11 | hdr | helping osm without gps-receiver is only possible via yahoo? |
| 16:30.13 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: look scap |
| 16:30.13 | Stephmw | balrog-kun: what about frequency hopping? same cellid, but kaput on another band? |
| 16:30.25 | SpeedEvil | (then you take that nmea trace and transform it with gpsbabel -i nmea -o gpx -f $1 -F $1.gpx |
| 16:30.32 | SpeedEvil | and then upload it or do josm stuff |
| 16:30.54 | SpeedEvil | hdr: pretty much - or naming streets existing in OSM that are not named |
| 16:30.57 | rxr | borg_: rene <at> t2-project <dot> org <- for anyone who as a gps blob to spare .-) |
| 16:31.28 | balrog-kun | Stephmw: i guess it's possible too, but this is black magic for me |
| 16:32.37 | Stephmw | mickeyl: is there any way to tell what freq the gsm is using? |
| 16:34.08 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: give it to mickeyl, I still haven't got myself a neo :) |
| 16:34.19 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@140.77.128.140) |
| 16:34.30 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: just wondering if that info can be obtained from the phone |
| 16:35.13 | mickeyl | 1800 here |
| 16:35.14 | Stephmw | finally... does .de have a site like http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/ that allows you to identify base stations? |
| 16:35.22 | Risto | ScaredyCat: Thanks Very Much! It's working again :-) |
| 16:35.33 | Stephmw | mickeyl: when it flipflops, does that change? |
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| 16:35.48 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 16:35.49 | mickeyl | oh |
| 16:35.53 | mickeyl | no idea, frankly |
| 16:36.02 | mickeyl | i have no equipment to test that |
| 16:36.22 | mickeyl | the good thing though is |
| 16:36.28 | mickeyl | it doesn't happen on another device with a different SIM |
| 16:36.50 | mickeyl | will cross-test, i'm afraid either my preproduction gta01bv4 is broken or the SIM |
| 16:36.59 | Stephmw | that's my current theory: your near station has 1+ bands it can use... one of which is dead, the other which is weak |
| 16:37.17 | SpeedEvil | Alternative test equipment. |
| 16:37.20 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7059 |
| 16:37.23 | SpeedEvil | Cheep! |
| 16:38.43 | balrog-kun | i think the FEM project's aim is to make a database like this, just worldwide |
| 16:39.12 | Stephmw | interesting... that db is missing some picocells I know of |
| 16:39.17 | mickeyl | http://pastebin.ca/796947 |
| 16:39.32 | mickeyl | other Neo (production model this time), same place, different SIM |
| 16:39.41 | mickeyl | still oscillates between cells |
| 16:39.42 | Stephmw | mickeyl: quite a few cells |
| 16:39.46 | mickeyl | but doesn't unreg |
| 16:40.19 | balrog-kun | i think it's normal forphones to oscillate between cells for no obvious reason |
| 16:40.27 | mickeyl | maybe the antenna in the preproduction model has problems |
| 16:40.27 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 16:40.34 | SpeedEvil | especially if there is a plurality of cells |
| 16:40.39 | mickeyl | should try an external one |
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| 16:46.48 | ScaredyCat | lol borg_ |
| 16:47.48 | *** part/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 16:50.01 | mickeyl | If someone of you can clarify 1025, I'd be grateful |
| 16:50.46 | ScaredyCat | !ombug 1025 |
| 16:50.47 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 1025, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 16:50.48 | cdbot2 | * * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: gsmd initialization questions |
| 16:50.49 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1025 |
| 16:51.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1025 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de |
| 16:51.01 | cdbot2 | * * gsmd initialization questions |
| 16:51.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1025 |
| 16:51.10 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: i updated the ipk now to this http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/1d892edca9bc93ba417fd8bc274aeff5.png |
| 16:51.20 | borg_ | it is too much flickering with alpha channel :\ |
| 16:53.07 | *** join/#openmoko ifworkcouldkill (n=ifchinsc@p5B105C58.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:53.23 | PBeck | borg_: hehe great ;) |
| 16:53.35 | borg_ | :) |
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| 16:57.15 | mickeyl | gsm is completely strange |
| 16:57.27 | mickeyl | why is the signal event so completely undeterministic |
| 16:57.38 | mickeyl | sometimes it fires every couple of seconds |
| 16:57.44 | mickeyl | sometimes it's absent for minutes |
| 16:59.05 | *** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@83.119.198.36) |
| 16:59.17 | Writchie | mickeyl: IIRC you get events for multiple operators |
| 16:59.52 | emdete | mickeyl: are you the mickeyl from oe? if so: i made a patch to get ctypes compiles for arm. are you interested? |
| 17:02.36 | mickeyl | emdete: yes, that's me. yeah, pretty cool, please attach it to the oe bugzilla, i'll take care of it |
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| 17:12.19 | emdete | mickeyl: is there a ticket on ctypes already? |
| 17:12.38 | mickeyl | i don't know offhand |
| 17:13.03 | zecke|flu | emdete: ctypes the header file? |
| 17:13.40 | emdete | zecke|flu: didn't understand that... |
| 17:14.22 | balrog-kun | emdete: i.e. what do you refer to with ctypes |
| 17:15.29 | emdete | ctypes is a module of standard 2.5 python... that's what i refering to |
| 17:15.46 | balrog-kun | ah ok, in C it is a library of.. well, C types :) |
| 17:16.33 | emdete | :D oups... yes, shure. sry, forget to mention python. |
| 17:17.24 | *** part/#openmoko LetoT2 (n=paul@193.110.157.17) |
| 17:18.34 | abraxa_ | borg_: Might wanna contact http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nenadgrujicic to get some nice GUI images |
| 17:18.40 | emdete | python painful? oh... |
| 17:18.57 | tuukkah | perhaps it's not the python part but the learning part :-) |
| 17:19.28 | mwester | :P No, it's the throwback to the worst misfeature of FORTRAN that hurts about it. |
| 17:19.47 | emdete | apropos fortran - does OM compile again? |
| 17:20.04 | borg_ | abraxa_: ok, i am sending a mail to the openmoko-apps list right now |
| 17:20.22 | emdete | mwester: love it or hate it, there is nothing in between. but fortran is far from python... |
| 17:20.53 | mwester | Sigh. I don't know. I think the change that broke the build was backed out of the gcc recipe, but not the gcc-cross recipe. So it will only build, I think, if you have a working mpfr package installed on your distro. |
| 17:21.27 | mwester | Python is far, far better than FORTRAN, but I have nightmares about column 6. |
| 17:22.04 | emdete | mwester: oh, in python you may do anything you like with col 6 ;) |
| 17:22.06 | tuukkah | so the pain of unlearning =) |
| 17:22.39 | mwester | emdete: No, not so -- you must carefully COUNT the spaces, so that you place your statement on the correct column, otherwise it will be part of the wrong block! |
| 17:23.14 | emdete | mwester: this does my editor for me... but i have a similar problem with lua: it counts arrays from 1 |
| 17:23.18 | mwester | To be specific, column-sensitivity to determine nesting seems so, so wrong anymore! |
| 17:23.37 | emdete | mwester: for me it seems so, so right ;) |
| 17:23.38 | tuukkah | mwester, don't you indent all your code exactly in any language? |
| 17:23.39 | mwester | I didn't know that about lua. That's another problem. |
| 17:24.42 | mwester | tuukkah: I do -- usually. When I'm debugging, however, I may wrap a block in an if statement, or remove an else clause, and I do not wish to adjust the indentation of everything just because I've added a debug conditional. |
| 17:24.49 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@80.183.8.146) |
| 17:25.45 | tuukkah | mwester, in that sense, you need more of editor features: comment/uncomment block, indent/outdent block |
| 17:26.10 | emdete | anyway - what is about build om and this mpfr package? i can't find that for debian... |
| 17:26.14 | mwester | I'll get used to it, I suppose. But habits die hard, and I'm accustomed to writing code and debugging it, and then AFTERWARDS going in and pretty-printing it to fix up all the tabs/spaces and indentations. |
| 17:26.29 | emdete | is it libmpfr-dev? |
| 17:26.58 | tuukkah | emdete, looks like it |
| 17:27.33 | emdete | mickeyl: i don't find a ticket - shall i create one? |
| 17:28.14 | mwester | emdete: Yes, probably libmpfr-dev. It doesn't exist at all on Fedora. Package "mpfr-native" is build by the build process, but something is wrong in the bitbake recipe, and gcc-cross can't find the one that OE builds. Apparently it will "work" if it instead finds the one installed in your /usr/lib/ directory. Although that too should fail some sanity test, I would think. |
| 17:29.06 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@62.135.96.14) |
| 17:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 17:30.20 | mwester | Ah, let me correct myself -- I think that linking to your host library instead of the correct one will not be found by the sanity checker because gcc-cross is a native package, and is not packaged as an ipkg or part of the final image. |
| 17:31.56 | emdete | hm, no that didn't work. there is another error now... |
| 17:32.15 | emdete | in libgfortran... |
| 17:32.36 | emdete | can i somehow easily kick this fortran-... out of the buile |
| 17:33.07 | emdete | s/buile/build/ |
| 17:36.56 | mwester | emdete: What package, specifically, is failing? |
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| 17:39.24 | CVirus | no community updates yet .. damn |
| 17:40.48 | emdete | still gcc-cross-4.1.2-r11 in build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/gcc-cross-4.1.2-r11/gcc-4.1.2/libgfortran/intrinsics/selected_int_kind.f90:35 |
| 17:41.07 | mwester | Ok. Hang on a few minutes. |
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| 17:56.36 | mickeyl | emdete: yes, please go ahead with the ticket. |
| 17:58.31 | CVirus | youtube ... Http/1.1 Service Unavailable |
| 17:58.33 | CVirus | hehe |
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| 17:59.04 | ScaredyCat | mmm |
| 17:59.10 | ScaredyCat | you tube broke? |
| 18:00.28 | *** join/#openmoko IfChinsCouldKill (n=ifchinsc@p5B105C58.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:00.33 | IfChinsCouldKill | Borg? |
| 18:00.45 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: ? |
| 18:00.51 | IfChinsCouldKill | http://home.arcor.de/finishlast/zeugs/openmokochoice.png |
| 18:00.59 | IfChinsCouldKill | How about this? |
| 18:01.01 | borg_ | NICE :D |
| 18:01.11 | borg_ | wow |
| 18:01.34 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 18:01.46 | borg_ | so nice |
| 18:02.17 | IfChinsCouldKill | it |
| 18:02.26 | IfChinsCouldKill | it's based on this here http://www.blogfrei.de/metalust/Freedom2.jpg |
| 18:02.37 | borg_ | i see |
| 18:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko sebastian (n=sebastia@grads-53.phy.duke.edu) |
| 18:05.23 | IfChinsCouldKill | I made it into this north south drag things http://home.arcor.de/finishlast/zeugs/mokochoice.zip |
| 18:05.37 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: i will make it in the ipk |
| 18:05.38 | borg_ | mom |
| 18:06.23 | emdete | mickeyl: done (http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3368). how fast does this go into om now? |
| 18:06.49 | mickeyl | can't predict |
| 18:06.52 | mickeyl | depends on when i have time |
| 18:07.21 | mickeyl | hopefully sometime next week |
| 18:09.05 | emdete | mickeyl: if i can build again i probably can fix this issue i mention in the comment until then... |
| 18:14.40 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 18:14.46 | borg_ | http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/neod_0.1.0+svnr3421-r6_neo1973.ipk |
| 18:15.29 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 18:16.15 | *** join/#openmoko moko-bunny (n=reik@CPE-76-178-148-218.natnow.res.rr.com) |
| 18:16.41 | IfChinsCouldKill | hehe nice |
| 18:16.59 | IfChinsCouldKill | Borg: You should make a video an put it on youtube |
| 18:17.07 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: i will try |
| 18:17.26 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: the alpha channel if flickering a bit, i will try to fix this first |
| 18:17.42 | IfChinsCouldKill | scaredycat can make an android logo and a trashcan. |
| 18:17.48 | borg_ | but i think thats a problem with the gtk drag and drap thing, so i cant do anything against it |
| 18:17.52 | borg_ | :) |
| 18:18.08 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x165.ouraynet.com) |
| 18:18.42 | borg_ | or am iphone and a blender |
| 18:18.44 | borg_ | 8) |
| 18:18.45 | *** join/#openmoko orzel (n=orzel@sylphide-consulting.com) |
| 18:19.31 | torpor | yo |
| 18:20.40 | orzel | hello |
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| 18:28.50 | borg_ | mickeyl: have you already tried the display lock? |
| 18:29.05 | borg_ | you have to use the new one with the images of IfChinsCouldKill when not |
| 18:29.08 | borg_ | it is so nice :) |
| 18:35.59 | mickeyl | i have no time to build anything atm. working on gsm applet |
| 18:36.06 | mickeyl | do you have a prebuilt image i can try on one of my neos? |
| 18:36.24 | borg_ | http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/neod_0.1.0+svnr3421-r6_neo1973.ipk |
| 18:36.45 | mickeyl | images... |
| 18:36.46 | borg_ | just du ipkg -force-overwrite -install neod.. |
| 18:36.52 | borg_ | no, sry ;) |
| 18:37.03 | mickeyl | ah, k. will try when i'm finished with today's hacking sessino |
| 18:37.40 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 18:37.49 | mickeyl | struct gsmd_msg_hdr { is missing the union for the data packages |
| 18:37.50 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
| 18:38.03 | mickeyl | let's go add 'em then... |
| 18:40.31 | demaledetti | borg_: it rocks, I love it, much needed! |
| 18:40.48 | torpor | what is it? |
| 18:40.55 | borg_ | demaledetti: thanks :) |
| 18:41.05 | mwester | emdete: Sync up once again, and try the build -- it should rebuild gcc-cross anew. |
| 18:41.07 | demaledetti | torpor: see the ipk link above |
| 18:41.12 | torpor | what is it though? |
| 18:41.16 | borg_ | demaledetti: the neo is very much useable as a mp3 player |
| 18:41.29 | demaledetti | torpor: and find the new screen locker under the power menu |
| 18:41.32 | torpor | yup, i'm using mine as an mp3 player right now .. |
| 18:41.33 | borg_ | but the lack of a display lock made it bad.. ;) |
| 18:41.47 | borg_ | torpor: then you should install the new neod :) |
| 18:41.56 | demaledetti | torpor: with very cool graphics too |
| 18:42.20 | torpor | when will this be in the man tree? and are there screenshots? |
| 18:42.20 | demaledetti | borg_: yeah it's useful even just for carrying the phone around in a pocket |
| 18:42.47 | borg_ | torpor: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/79bc6f5f1990dc39de783132ab633847.png |
| 18:43.23 | torpor | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.24 | torpor | cool! |
| 18:43.35 | demaledetti | totally |
| 18:43.43 | borg_ | dont know if it comes in mainline, i made an attachemend to the bugzilla and i am harassing mickeyl here in irc ;) |
| 18:43.46 | borg_ | i cant do more :D |
| 18:44.40 | borg_ | torpor: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/1d892edca9bc93ba417fd8bc274aeff5.png |
| 18:44.42 | torpor | well i'll wait until it goes into the main tree though .. i'm trying to make a kickass bootable SD to put online for people to check out .. |
| 18:44.44 | borg_ | you can use this one too :) |
| 18:44.55 | torpor | nice! |
| 18:45.08 | borg_ | :P |
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| 18:49.19 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 18:49.26 | mickeyl | ok |
| 18:49.33 | mickeyl | let me check |
| 18:49.34 | zecke|flu | LaF0rge: got a second? Should I get cash for india here or there? Should I get a credit card or will maestro (EC-Karte) do? |
| 18:51.41 | mickeyl | hahahaha |
| 18:51.45 | mickeyl | ok, guys, i love that :D |
| 18:51.48 | mickeyl | it's so cool |
| 18:52.11 | mickeyl | we just need a different background picture |
| 18:52.19 | mickeyl | this one is a bit... uhm... too che guevara |
| 18:52.20 | torpor | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:52.32 | torpor | how doe the images work? |
| 18:52.47 | torpor | are they separate layers, or is it just one image that is utomatically skinned? |
| 18:52.50 | torpor | +a |
| 18:53.01 | balrog-kun | it's great :) |
| 18:54.16 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 18:54.45 | borg_ | is there something in oe with which i can make some sort of screencast of the openmoko display? |
| 18:54.58 | SpeedEvil | X? |
| 18:55.05 | SpeedEvil | DISPALY=? |
| 18:56.54 | matsimoto | are there any events that could wake up an application when a SMS or a phone call comes in ? ... what I mean is wake up from standby. |
| 18:57.11 | borg_ | torpor: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/openmoko-display-lock-readme.txt |
| 18:57.27 | borg_ | there you can read what pictures are needed |
| 18:57.30 | borg_ | and in which size |
| 18:57.40 | borg_ | you can just put them in /usr/share/neod |
| 18:58.39 | IfChinsCouldKill | lol too much che guevara, oh boy:D |
| 18:58.55 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: hehe ;) |
| 18:58.56 | mickeyl | could someone come up with a less offensive one? |
| 18:59.05 | mickeyl | this patch would make it into the snapshot then :) |
| 18:59.50 | IfChinsCouldKill | Google forced me to make it this way |
| 19:00.17 | borg_ | i have no skills in making graphics ;) |
| 19:00.23 | *** join/#openmoko bardun (n=bardun@2.80-203-45.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:00.35 | borg_ | red and green rectangles was the best i could do ;) |
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| 19:02.40 | SpeedEvil | I would suggest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kathmandu-05.JPG |
| 19:02.42 | SpeedEvil | as an image |
| 19:03.20 | borg_ | mh.. there is nothing where somthing could be dragged into ;) |
| 19:04.37 | Vegar | regarding that lock.. |
| 19:04.53 | Vegar | would it be possible to limit the distance the "thing" can be dragged? |
| 19:04.54 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:05.19 | Vegar | to prevent accidental unlocking |
| 19:05.40 | borg_ | how do you mean that? |
| 19:05.40 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 19:05.49 | borg_ | if you stop dragging the thing falls back down |
| 19:05.51 | Vegar | yeah |
| 19:05.55 | Vegar | but what if you don't? |
| 19:06.07 | SpeedEvil | Make it a little maze! |
| 19:06.20 | borg_ | i dont think that is needed |
| 19:06.36 | borg_ | at least there was no accidential unlocking in my jogging-test ;) |
| 19:07.25 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 19:07.48 | Vegar | borg_: you should do a dance test too |
| 19:07.58 | SpeedEvil | And put it on youtube. |
| 19:08.16 | Aria | Hee |
| 19:08.39 | Vegar | of course |
| 19:09.23 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-October/001607.html |
| 19:09.28 | abraxa_ | That's more like a maze ;3 |
| 19:10.42 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p5B22D4C9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:11.44 | SpeedEvil | Ideally I'd like an x-stroke like recogniser to do it and a passphrase option - but... |
| 19:11.46 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 19:12.00 | SpeedEvil | that sounds logical |
| 19:12.35 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@nl112-173-133.student.uu.se) |
| 19:22.27 | matsimoto | Th wiki says: "The GSM daemon configures the GSM Modem so as to wake the CPU when events happen." is this true ? |
| 19:22.41 | SpeedEvil | matsimoto: probably not |
| 19:22.51 | SpeedEvil | matsimoto: much of the wiki is merely hopes |
| 19:23.08 | SpeedEvil | power managment at the moment is of the 'point and laugh' class. |
| 19:23.24 | Writchie | press and press PM |
| 19:23.30 | Writchie | press and pray PM |
| 19:23.53 | matsimoto | Ok that is an explanation why I cannot find anything in gsmd ... is there another source where I can find something on CPU wakeup ? |
| 19:24.11 | SpeedEvil | not really AIUI |
| 19:24.18 | SpeedEvil | the datasheet of the SOC and PMU chip |
| 19:24.25 | Writchie | seriously, eventually the gsmd or its successor will stop all all unsolicited AT messages except those of interest for wakeup. |
| 19:24.50 | Writchie | PM will need some coordination among user space and kernel drivers. |
| 19:25.40 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@port-87-234-155-81.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 19:27.36 | matsimoto | Ok, I am more a software engineer than an electronics engineer :(, does anyone has some hints were to begin as a sw-engineer when trying to wakeup on GSM events ? |
| 19:28.31 | SpeedEvil | Umm. |
| 19:28.49 | Writchie | unfortunately, I think you will have to wait until the PM is more full debugged. |
| 19:29.32 | Writchie | you can probably count on their eventually being a system dbus message that will inform applications of a wakeup. |
| 19:30.30 | Writchie | however, there may not be any reason for an application to care. It should just respond to normal events. |
| 19:30.53 | Writchie | If every application tries to get involved with PM in a free for all it will never work. |
| 19:31.33 | Writchie | applications should generally let the daemons and the kernel take care of it. |
| 19:31.50 | matsimoto | allright, but is somebody working on this or is this something everybody is waiting for ? |
| 19:32.15 | SpeedEvil | matsimoto: We haven't been told. To expand. |
| 19:32.50 | borg_ | matsimoto: in my opinion thats the biggest problem here, nobody knows what is going on :) |
| 19:32.52 | Writchie | kernel work seems to be in a bit of a limbo. Unfortunately, no-one outside of OM can help much because it involves GTA02 hardware changes not yet disclosed. |
| 19:33.37 | SpeedEvil | Dirstly. for GTA01 at least - it should in principle be possible to wake it from suspend-RAM. |
| 19:34.06 | matsimoto | ok, but I think they need applications that cooperate in a PM environment before they can go to market with GTA02. |
| 19:34.24 | SpeedEvil | you basically look for which pin the GSM modem is wired to, then work out how to configure it as a 'wake from' interrupt before you go to sleep/. |
| 19:34.34 | Writchie | matsimoto: yes of course |
| 19:34.45 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A542D0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:34.58 | Writchie | a couple of hours of battery life makes a useless MOBILE phone |
| 19:36.07 | *** join/#openmoko rcostine (n=rjc@ppp-216-158-31-114.static.oldcity.dca.net) |
| 19:36.11 | Writchie | unfortunately, uboot - kernel - and hardware are all related and there are several issues due to differing hardware on GTA01 and GTA02 |
| 19:37.01 | matsimoto | In my point of view a lot of other mobiles enter the market: iPhone, HTC Touch and you have to love open phones to pay a price for it where you can get a HTC Touch. Though, I think time is running o.. |
| 19:37.15 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@53d828f6.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:37.16 | Writchie | the PM chips for example are different and there is no published info on the PM chip used in GTA02 not to mention the wiring. |
| 19:37.30 | edistar | matsimoto: yeah, OM needs to speed up a lot |
| 19:37.42 | SpeedEvil | That's _really_ sucky - I diddn't realise that. |
| 19:37.44 | Writchie | matsimoto: time never runs out and the NEO is not really in the market. |
| 19:37.49 | SpeedEvil | I hope that some docs will be provided. |
| 19:38.20 | Writchie | the NEO is and will remain a developer prototype, at least for several more months. |
| 19:38.35 | matsimoto | Writchie: yep, you are right what I mean is that there coming other phones with SDKs that will occupy market the NEO would fit perfectly. |
| 19:38.53 | Writchie | but if it takes until june of next year - the world will not end. |
| 19:39.08 | SpeedEvil | athlon XP2500 |
| 19:39.10 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 19:39.20 | _buz | if google were to in fact opensource all of android, june is way too late |
| 19:39.22 | borg_ | matsimoto: you were the guy that wanted an interface to neod, right? |
| 19:39.34 | matsimoto | borg_: yes |
| 19:39.43 | borg_ | ok |
| 19:39.45 | _buz | (i have serious doubts that google would do that but who knows) |
| 19:40.16 | borg_ | i am thinking of making neod in a real daemon and outsourcing the aux menu, the power menu and the display locker |
| 19:40.36 | borg_ | and perhaps rename it in "phoned" or something |
| 19:40.45 | MetaMorfoziS | Is there any news about the (central?)european store of neo? |
| 19:40.49 | borg_ | because it allready runs on more then the neo |
| 19:41.14 | borg_ | matsimoto: whould it be a good idea to send all events over dbus? |
| 19:41.47 | matsimoto | borg_: yes, I think so. I am not very expereinced with dbus, but it sounds like right tool for the job |
| 19:42.42 | Writchie | borg_: all of the system level thingy's should probably be on dbus. |
| 19:43.05 | matsimoto | Writchie: I hope you are righ. The other phones will have an advantage over the NEO. But of course I will buy one ;) even if it is Octobre. |
| 19:43.46 | Writchie | the main problem is that they should all probably be defined and reveiwed before being implemented (i.e. they should be designed) IMNSO |
| 19:43.50 | borg_ | so, i just get all the events (aux, power button pressend, earphones inserted, 10 seconds no input from user, ...) and put them into dbus |
| 19:43.56 | anrp | what? |
| 19:43.58 | anrp | designed?! |
| 19:44.04 | anrp | heretic! get 'im! |
| 19:44.06 | borg_ | and make the aux menu and so an normal apps using this |
| 19:44.07 | borg_ | right? |
| 19:44.16 | Writchie | i know - its not the FOSS way ;) |
| 19:44.46 | Writchie | which is why FOSS is better but takes longer (and sometimes infinitely longer) |
| 19:45.09 | anrp | is it still better if it takes an infinite amount of time, though? |
| 19:45.24 | Writchie | yes - if you live long enuf |
| 19:45.50 | borg_ | i think that sounds doable for me ;) |
| 19:46.02 | borg_ | i will start programming a neod replacement then |
| 19:46.28 | anrp | good luck D: |
| 19:46.44 | edistar | what does neod do? |
| 19:46.44 | Writchie | borg_: have you looked at how BlueZ does it? |
| 19:47.39 | borg_ | edistar: watching for the button events of the phone and starting the aux/power menu and so on |
| 19:47.41 | borg_ | Writchie: no |
| 19:47.53 | edistar | borg_: ah |
| 19:48.17 | borg_ | but there is no way for other programms to get these events atm |
| 19:48.29 | Writchie | although not terribly well documented, they use d-bus in a very powerful and flexible way. |
| 19:48.38 | edistar | borg_: why not? |
| 19:49.02 | mwester | emdete: Is it building correctly now? |
| 19:49.09 | borg_ | Writchie: do you have a little bit more specific place where i should look in bluez? ;) |
| 19:49.11 | Writchie | borg_: you generally want to permit applications to subscribe to whatever system events they are interested in. |
| 19:49.24 | Writchie | borg_: wait one |
| 19:49.40 | borg_ | edistar: because it is not implemented ;) |
| 19:49.43 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat/x-16c0855b95e11c11) |
| 19:50.18 | borg_ | edistar: i mean, everyone can read the events from /dev/input/event%d, but.... |
| 19:50.18 | Writchie | borg_: http://wiki.bluez.org/ |
| 19:50.46 | borg_ | Writchie: i will try to make some sort of document in the wiki first |
| 19:51.38 | borg_ | but it sounds pretty much doable, there are not that many events from neod |
| 19:51.48 | Writchie | borg_: the problem with what I call the application free for all is that in a mobile platform you need some daemon in charge of the platform as a whole due to PM and mobility issues. |
| 19:52.05 | SpeedEvil | and usability |
| 19:52.17 | matsimoto | borg_: dont forget your screenlocked event |
| 19:52.25 | borg_ | matsimoto: yes ;) |
| 19:52.29 | Writchie | so you really need to define the "platform" and not just treat it as a desktop |
| 19:52.29 | SpeedEvil | the star-map program doesn't get to pop up if a call is ringing as venus is about to transit the sun. |
| 19:52.54 | anrp | i'd say that depends on the caller |
| 19:52.56 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: exactly - or do GPRS if bank account < $100,000 |
| 19:52.57 | anrp | ;) |
| 19:53.08 | matsimoto | Writchie: does this mean that the GSM Events should be handled from the phoned too |
| 19:53.21 | SpeedEvil | andred_: true of course. |
| 19:53.52 | Writchie | matsimoto: IMHO yes. |
| 19:54.02 | Writchie | with some exceptions |
| 19:54.29 | borg_ | i will start with the button and the timeout events from neod |
| 19:54.32 | borg_ | then we can see |
| 19:55.08 | Writchie | it may even be necessary at some point to have some interactions with the linux scheduler. |
| 19:56.36 | Writchie | ATM when userspace is resumed all process become runnable. |
| 19:56.37 | matsimoto | Writchie: Do you think everything should be put in one daemon or should there something like a daemon infra structure connected with each other ? |
| 19:57.00 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: initrd |
| 19:57.18 | Writchie | maybe - |
| 19:57.26 | SpeedEvil | or something simila |
| 19:57.27 | SpeedEvil | r |
| 19:57.31 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: it could become a runlevel thingy |
| 19:57.55 | Writchie | runlevel 5 is burn baby burn |
| 19:58.11 | Writchie | runlevel 2 is conserve power as best possible. |
| 19:58.25 | Aria | :w |
| 19:58.27 | Writchie | runlevel 1 stay alive until battery is close to dead |
| 19:58.28 | borg_ | sounds interesting |
| 19:58.45 | borg_ | but you have to do a lot of changing in a lot of things for that ;) |
| 19:58.53 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@p5B006365.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:59.10 | *** part/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@p5B006365.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:59.23 | edistar | but it sounds simple.. |
| 19:59.44 | edistar | the concept.. |
| 20:00.19 | Writchie | you could have runlevel 4 where the gui runs only with power conserving apps. |
| 20:00.59 | CIA-14 | 03mickey * r3504 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/include/gsmd/usock.h: |
| 20:00.59 | CIA-14 | gsmd: start with gsmd_msg_auxdata union |
| 20:00.59 | CIA-14 | Using a union here (similar to gsmd_evt_auxdata) allows for compiler checks and |
| 20:00.59 | CIA-14 | is much less prone to fail than using pointer arithmetics. |
| 20:03.44 | CIA-14 | 03mickey * r3505 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): |
| 20:03.44 | CIA-14 | libmokogsmd2: |
| 20:03.44 | CIA-14 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.44 | CIA-14 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.44 | CIA-14 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.45 | CIA-14 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:05.12 | CIA-14 | 03mickey * r3506 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c): |
| 20:05.12 | CIA-14 | openmoko-panel-gsm: |
| 20:05.12 | CIA-14 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:05.12 | CIA-14 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
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| 20:25.32 | borg_ | should it be possible for other applications to tell phoned to lower the brigthness of the backlight e.g.? |
| 20:25.48 | edistar | borg_: yes, of course.. |
| 20:26.11 | edistar | borg_: if you have an app that doesn't need full backlight all the time.. how would OM know that |
| 20:26.13 | hdr | echo 8 > /sys/backlight/brightness ;) |
| 20:26.37 | borg_ | hdr: yes, that is how it is done at the moment, thats bad ;) |
| 20:26.45 | edistar | borg_: why is that bad? |
| 20:27.02 | hdr | it's the same way on my laptop ;) |
| 20:27.10 | borg_ | edistar: because you have to change every application if this path changes |
| 20:27.10 | balrog-kun | edistar: it's linux specific, non-portable |
| 20:27.13 | borg_ | or the distribution changes |
| 20:27.15 | borg_ | or.... |
| 20:27.34 | edistar | balrog-kun: ah.. I didn't think that far.. |
| 20:27.44 | balrog-kun | but i don't know if backlight belongs in phoned :) |
| 20:27.52 | balrog-kun | i guess not all phones need to have an LCD |
| 20:28.16 | borg_ | balrog-kun: then nothing happens in this situation.. ;) |
| 20:28.58 | balrog-kun | yeah, or an error is returned |
| 20:29.20 | borg_ | what i meant was, should the other applications really use dbus or should there be some sort of libphone wher some simple functions can be used? |
| 20:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 20:31.42 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.177) |
| 20:31.56 | pavelm | Hello, everyone. |
| 20:32.20 | aevin | hi pavelm |
| 20:32.54 | pavelm | ...planet.openmoko says power management is usable now ("lasts a day") |
| 20:33.08 | borg_ | oh really? |
| 20:33.08 | borg_ | cool |
| 20:33.35 | pavelm | ...phase0 has broken hw, can't be repaired. |
| 20:33.53 | pavelm | ...phase 1 has broken hw, but I was told difference is very small -- one transistor? |
| 20:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@203.14.156.27) |
| 20:34.16 | pavelm | ...is there "how to fix phase1" document available somewhere? |
| 20:34.43 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@bas3-toronto47-1279427937.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:34.52 | CM | pavelm: Wasn't the case that you can remove one transistor to fix that? I think roh talked hachi through it |
| 20:35.04 | *** part/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@bas3-toronto47-1279427937.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:35.29 | CM | pavelm: http://people.openmoko.org/roh/Gta01b_v4_front_Q1001.jpg |
| 20:35.53 | CM | If you have one of the red boards that is.. I think |
| 20:36.31 | balrog-kun | there's only a couple of billions of transistors on this picture, pick the right one and remove it |
| 20:37.27 | IfChinsCouldKill | Borg: a less offensive one... http://home.arcor.de/finishlast/zeugs/mokopuzzle.png |
| 20:37.28 | pavelm | aha, the picture even has green circle on it, good. |
| 20:38.17 | pavelm | borg: can you repost the offensive one? :-) |
| 20:38.43 | borg_ | pavelm: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/79bc6f5f1990dc39de783132ab633847.png |
| 20:38.46 | borg_ | this one? ;) |
| 20:38.59 | IfChinsCouldKill | http://home.arcor.de/finishlast/zeugs/mokopuzzle.zip north south kid thingy |
| 20:39.05 | IfChinsCouldKill | mid even |
| 20:39.18 | borg_ | pavelm: http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/neod_0.1.0+svnr3421-r6_neo1973.ipk |
| 20:39.43 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: cool too :) |
| 20:40.27 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: can you put a drag.png in it too? |
| 20:40.47 | pavelm | borg: that one is actually pretty cool. |
| 20:40.55 | borg_ | pavelm: yes, it is :) |
| 20:41.18 | balrog-kun | what do the monkeys do there? :) |
| 20:42.09 | IfChinsCouldKill | updated the zip file with the drag thingie |
| 20:42.14 | borg_ | ok |
| 20:42.27 | IfChinsCouldKill | balrog-kun: was running out of freedom words ;) |
| 20:43.42 | emdete | mwester: still building - i did a make clobber |
| 20:44.14 | mwester | :( |
| 20:44.28 | borg_ | mickey|sofa: are you still available? ;) |
| 20:44.31 | balrog-kun | heh |
| 20:44.38 | emdete | mwester: sry, this is a slow machine here. is generating locales before or after that point? |
| 20:44.39 | borg_ | whats about this design? http://homepages.upb.de/olaf/dinge/openmoko/display_lock/moko_puzzle/mokopuzzle.png |
| 20:45.15 | mwester | emdete: Dunno, but I think it's after. Ok, I guess it is fixed. For now. |
| 20:45.52 | _buz | how about a simple svg or maybe even png theming ability for it? |
| 20:46.38 | emdete | mwester: thnx alot... |
| 20:46.49 | *** join/#openmoko pigeon (n=pigeon@218-214-60-232.people.net.au) |
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| 20:49.11 | Writchie | pavelm: where did you see that GTA01 phase 1 hardware requires hardware fix for PM? |
| 20:50.07 | *** join/#openmoko psal (n=ps@s3.flex.ch) |
| 20:50.19 | CM | Writchie: I'm not sure, but I think it's pre-series phones |
| 20:50.37 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-157-1-110-233.w90-20.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 20:51.56 | balrog-kun | what does the fix fix? |
| 20:52.53 | pavelm | writchie: heard it on irc. It is not in wiki :-( |
| 20:53.02 | Writchie | CM: pre as in prior to GTA01Bv4 |
| 20:53.18 | weez | whats the easiest way to see what rev your hardware is? |
| 20:53.45 | Writchie | all purchased hardware is GTA01Bv4 AFAIK |
| 20:53.56 | weez | ahh |
| 20:54.21 | weez | nothing in my chat logs... |
| 20:54.23 | IfChinsCouldKill | Borg: I edited the pictures, took away some line on some puzzle tiles, just download the zip file again... |
| 20:54.39 | weez | i had a couple of months logged |
| 20:54.47 | weez | but i lost them in a tragic lvm resize accident |
| 20:54.51 | Writchie | and if this requires hardware changes to PM to work - that would be very bad. |
| 20:54.56 | weez | now i only have since Nov 20 |
| 20:55.54 | borg_ | ok |
| 20:56.08 | pavelm | try searching for 'transistor' |
| 20:56.37 | weez | nothing in the last 5 days |
| 20:56.49 | weez | just what came up a few minutes ago |
| 20:57.20 | weez | FreeNode-#openmoko.log:Nov 25 14:58:41 <pavelm> try searching for 'transistor' |
| 20:57.36 | weez | that worked ;-) |
| 20:58.01 | pavelm | weez: that was more like 3 months ago. |
| 20:58.06 | weez | damn |
| 20:58.16 | weez | damn LVM! DAMN YOU |
| 20:58.21 | roh | hm? |
| 20:58.31 | Aria | Why LVM? |
| 20:58.38 | Writchie | well the transistor in the green circle appears on the gta01bv4 photo. |
| 20:58.50 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: on the phone this one looks even more nice |
| 20:58.54 | borg_ | mhmh mickey|sofa ? |
| 20:58.57 | Writchie | was this maybe a discussion on the private #openmoko-dev group? |
| 20:58.57 | weez | i renamed a snapshot source |
| 20:59.10 | weez | and everything (the source) and the snapshot went bye bye |
| 20:59.13 | borg_ | and it makes fun :) |
| 20:59.25 | weez | with all my xchat logs |
| 20:59.28 | *** join/#openmoko pigeon_ (n=pigeon@218-214-60-232.people.net.au) |
| 20:59.32 | weez | it was the only thing in there i cared about.. |
| 20:59.35 | weez | sniff.. |
| 21:00.39 | IfChinsCouldKill | I like the che guevera one ;) |
| 21:00.47 | borg_ | yes i like it too |
| 21:00.52 | borg_ | i will use the che guevera one ;) |
| 21:00.59 | CM | borg_: Don't poke him too much, it's sunday evening |
| 21:01.00 | demaledetti | +1 for the che guevara one |
| 21:01.01 | weez | edistar: thanks |
| 21:01.02 | borg_ | but i think mickey|sofa can put the puzzle one in mainline |
| 21:01.02 | edistar | borg_: me too ;) |
| 21:01.03 | pavelm | that one transistor should be difference between phase 1 sent to developers and phase 1 sold |
| 21:01.18 | CM | pavelm: That's what I figured too |
| 21:01.33 | borg_ | CM: ok ;) |
| 21:01.41 | CM | pavelm: Just heard roh and hachi discuss it, and hachi removed his |
| 21:01.57 | Writchie | CM: pavelm: ok - then it means the GTA01B_v4 photo on the wiki is wrong. |
| 21:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko matsch (n=matsch@host-091-097-052-099.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:02.44 | pavelm | CM: Ok, I guess I should create wiki page about it |
| 21:03.14 | Writchie | if it only affects give away phones - it might confuse more than help. |
| 21:03.30 | roh | Writchie which one |
| 21:03.31 | *** join/#openmoko hozer (n=hozer@excalibur.hozed.org) |
| 21:03.45 | CM | roh: Ah, good. Can you help pavelm along with that transistor? |
| 21:03.50 | roh | Writchie there are red pcb and green pcb GTA01B_v4 |
| 21:03.51 | CM | The one hachi removed? |
| 21:03.58 | Writchie | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v4_front.jpg |
| 21:04.11 | roh | the ones sold for money should all be green and never had q1001 placed, thus no bug. |
| 21:04.17 | Writchie | the red one shows the transiter in question. |
| 21:04.31 | CM | hozer: Look in the #android channel.. ;) |
| 21:04.33 | Writchie | roh: good - |
| 21:05.30 | roh | the red pcb ones had this transistor placed afaik and can be fixed by removing it. (but its a nontrivial task, requiring experience and proper tools) |
| 21:05.55 | Writchie | roh: sure - and removal of the can lids |
| 21:06.24 | pavelm | I'm adding this to wiki: |
| 21:06.25 | pavelm | ==== Errata ===== |
| 21:06.25 | pavelm | There were two versions of GTA01Bv4: some were given away (red mainboard), and some were sold (green mainboard). The given-away have [[one transistor too many]]. |
| 21:06.26 | roh | but since the bug is no showstopper to develop software with it it was only fixed for MP. |
| 21:07.10 | Writchie | roh: am I correct in assuming the only issues on GTA01b4 at the moment are gsm firmware related? |
| 21:07.19 | balrog-kun | +1 for the mice (and more importantly cheese) |
| 21:07.19 | roh | meaning not swapping and reworking all giveaway-phones. |
| 21:07.37 | *** join/#openmoko d1 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 21:07.41 | roh | Writchie speaking from a hardware-errata point of view, yes. |
| 21:07.55 | Writchie | roh: yes - hardware/firmware |
| 21:08.14 | roh | Writchie i must say i am quite impressed that we did not find any new errors coming from the hardware |
| 21:08.34 | balrog-kun | roh: what was the bug exactly? |
| 21:08.37 | Writchie | roh: so far (fingers crossed) |
| 21:09.07 | *** join/#openmoko pigeon__ (n=pigeon@218-214-60-232.people.net.au) |
| 21:09.08 | Writchie | roh: until we see full PM suspend/resume working its still an unknown. |
| 21:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADF6E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:09.31 | Writchie | roh: OLPC kinds needed hardware changes at last minute over PM IIRC |
| 21:09.47 | Writchie | s/kinds/guys/ |
| 21:09.49 | pavelm | roh: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/One_transistor_too_many ...can you check that it is basically correct? |
| 21:09.49 | roh | balrog-kun the transistor pulls a 'reset' line on the gsm pmu. this pin on the pmu is not debounced, the other one for power (same wiring, other transistor) is debounced. |
| 21:10.29 | balrog-kun | roh: meaning that gsm would be constantly in reset? |
| 21:10.51 | Writchie | roh: the gsm modem is not responding to the mux command to go into low power state. Does it does this automatically on no activity? |
| 21:11.05 | roh | when the pmu is shut down for suspend-to-ram the samsung somehow generates a hard, short spike on all gpio, which would, due to no debouncing reset the gsm, which wants to send data on the serial and wakes up the samsmung -> loop. |
| 21:11.35 | balrog-kun | roh: ah okay |
| 21:11.52 | roh | balrog-kun not constantly, but its like a oscillation through 2 subsystems (gsm and pmu) and the soc. |
| 21:12.00 | pavelm | roh: Can I quote you in the wiki? |
| 21:12.02 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 21:12.03 | balrog-kun | hmm but i'm able to suspent/resume the phone corrently, with modem on or off |
| 21:13.13 | roh | since ti says the reset is only for testing, not for regular use, we removed q1001 from the placement map. just the name was not bumped to gta01bv5 since that would require changes to the gerber (labeling) and just not placing the transistor does not. its basically a layout-revision |
| 21:13.21 | Writchie | balrog-kun: what current is being drawn in suspend? |
| 21:13.44 | roh | pavelm you can. |
| 21:13.50 | pavelm | roh: thanks. |
| 21:14.09 | roh | pavelm i think that page needs a big, fat warning, only to do this if you know what youre doing etc. yadda,yadda |
| 21:14.09 | balrog-kun | Writchie: judging from the battery life time improvement.. well there's not improvement |
| 21:14.34 | roh | i would not have the tools for that at home. atleast not without destroying the shielding on that corner |
| 21:14.36 | Writchie | gsm idle should draw just a few miliamps, 3 or 4 |
| 21:14.46 | roh | (and i solder some pretty sick stuff by hand) |
| 21:14.52 | balrog-kun | i have no precise measurements, but i decided it wasn't worth suspending this device between copmiling and uploading new binaries for test, like it is done on other arm devices |
| 21:15.34 | Writchie | balrog-kun: which kernel are you using for suspend/resume testing |
| 21:15.50 | Writchie | 2.6.23? |
| 21:16.29 | borg_ | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Display_Locker |
| 21:16.30 | roh | the 2.6.22.5 or so which was what we called stable till recently does fine with suspend to ram... are there issues i do not know about? |
| 21:17.16 | balrog-kun | Writchie: i think we were at 2.6.19 when i decided that |
| 21:17.20 | Writchie | roh: i've seen some issues on 2.6.23 PM serial on i386. |
| 21:17.41 | ScaredyCat | awwwno little mousey borg_ :( |
| 21:17.51 | hozer | it reminds me of the effort for the first PPC40x kernel port... a huge pile of code was developed in a vacuum from the community and then dumped out there to the public assuming that the kernel people would just take it |
| 21:17.58 | roh | hozer well.. google has another point of view about the word 'open' ;) |
| 21:18.33 | Writchie | roh: is there a known stable kernel to use at this point - i've been assuming 2.6.23 will be coming shortly for GTA02 |
| 21:18.41 | torpor | the puzzle pic is awesome. |
| 21:18.49 | IfChinsCouldKill | ScaredyCat: your mouse will be included as an easteregg ;) |
| 21:18.58 | edistar | torpor: do you have a link? |
| 21:18.58 | ScaredyCat | hhehehe |
| 21:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko pigeon__ (n=pigeon@218-214-60-232.people.net.au) |
| 21:19.08 | hozer | roh: I suppose it will lead to a lot of phones on the market that could be hacked to run openmoko ;) |
| 21:19.15 | Writchie | roh: the advantage of 2.6.23 is its the stock fedora 8 kernel |
| 21:19.20 | edistar | hozer: good luck finding the drivers |
| 21:19.21 | roh | Writchie ack. the patches are all ported as far as i can see, but not really tested and debugged. |
| 21:20.05 | roh | Writchie well.. i do not care anything about what somebody runs as his host-kernel. the target is my interrest there |
| 21:20.06 | Writchie | only you guys can test both GTA01 and GTA02 |
| 21:20.13 | Writchie | roh: of course |
| 21:20.31 | hozer | edistar: based on how people have reverse-egineered drivers for mac-linux, it will be a pain, but possible |
| 21:20.32 | torpor | edistar: see the wiki entry for devicelock, posted above |
| 21:21.03 | edistar | torpor: ok |
| 21:21.04 | edistar | :) |
| 21:21.09 | Writchie | roh: except that some release points are better than others from a bug point of view. |
| 21:21.37 | roh | hozer well.. what ive seen so far from google means they will not care for gpl anymore than they must due to the license. there will be huge binary blobs which do hw-abstraction and no source for it. the kernel just proxys some stuff or allows mmaping it from userspace |
| 21:21.43 | pavelm | roh: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/One_transistor_too_many was updated with your words ... and with some warnings. |
| 21:21.51 | edistar | +1 for the puzzle! |
| 21:21.59 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: by 'gsm current should be' do you mean 'that'd be nice', or do you mean 'I've observed this? |
| 21:22.20 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: because for me, it's about an order of magnitude over 3-4mA |
| 21:22.25 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: some calypso based modules are 3 to 4 amps in gsm idle |
| 21:22.30 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 21:22.33 | hozer | roh: good, then FIC will have a very stable long-term market niche ;) |
| 21:22.34 | SpeedEvil | right. |
| 21:22.39 | roh | pavelm you can add that people who are crazy enough to try it can/should contact me |
| 21:22.48 | Writchie | 3 to 4 ma |
| 21:22.51 | SpeedEvil | That's more sane - compared to my nokia. |
| 21:22.55 | IfChinsCouldKill | Borg: renewed the zip for the last time, I removed some non puzzle lines in north and mid. |
| 21:23.05 | Writchie | 3 to 4 amps is more like my present neo ;) |
| 21:23.10 | roh | hozer exact. i do not fear google yet. they wilder in microsofts, symbians and apples market, not in ours |
| 21:23.14 | pavelm | ...I guess "I'll just take a sharp knife and kill that transistor" was a bit too naive? |
| 21:23.17 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: any thoughts on where the current is to? |
| 21:23.19 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: ah ok ;) |
| 21:23.29 | pavelm | roh: Care to give me contact info? Or should I just write "roh on rc"? |
| 21:23.34 | pavelm | "roh on irc"? |
| 21:23.41 | anrp | huh |
| 21:23.42 | _buz | roh: it sort of depends how much of a premium the linux crowd will really put on a purely gpl device |
| 21:23.45 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Display_Locker |
| 21:23.48 | roh | either that or write mail via the wiki |
| 21:23.51 | anrp | low heat/low flow hot air would probably do it |
| 21:23.51 | Writchie | gsm idle is can be low duty cycle |
| 21:23.56 | Writchie | relatively |
| 21:23.59 | anrp | i could try it tomorrow .. |
| 21:24.09 | Writchie | the chipset can sleep |
| 21:24.31 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: it's got to be idle all of the time - the reciever has to be active in large portions of the time. |
| 21:24.37 | pavelm | roh: ok.. |
| 21:24.37 | roh | pavelm my mailaddr is in the wiki |
| 21:25.21 | roh | _buz well.. there seem to be lots of interrested people. my focus currently of getting it done. ;) |
| 21:25.24 | Writchie | idle means only monitoring for an incoming connection |
| 21:25.46 | Writchie | on the current signalling channel. |
| 21:25.53 | _buz | well interest doesnt necessarily mean "i'll pay 450USD" |
| 21:25.58 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: yes |
| 21:26.09 | pavelm | roh: Thanks! |
| 21:26.18 | SpeedEvil | _buz: for a phone that's getting less functional - compared to what $450 used to buy you |
| 21:26.23 | Writchie | this can be done with 10mw |
| 21:26.50 | _buz | SpeedEvil: yeah. i wouldnt mind it being a triband very much, but it having been announced at quadband gives a bad taste to it |
| 21:26.56 | Writchie | i'm not sure if the receiver is always on or wakes ups up periodically |
| 21:27.03 | SpeedEvil | _buz: not what I meant |
| 21:27.12 | hozer | speaking of which... who do I contact to find out what a lot of between 100 and 1000 Neo's would cost |
| 21:27.26 | SpeedEvil | _buz: I mean that $450 - when it was announced bought you a fair amount less phone than it will in March? |
| 21:27.38 | hozer | I have a proposal idea that needs some budget numbers |
| 21:27.40 | _buz | SpeedEvil: oh yes, of course |
| 21:27.58 | _buz | imho it missed the window |
| 21:28.08 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: the 40ma question is if the calypso goes automatically into low power idle - especially since it does not obey the low power state commands from the mux? |
| 21:28.12 | SpeedEvil | the triband thing should be ameliorated for most people by having two versions for different markets, which is _almost_ free |
| 21:28.29 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: ah |
| 21:28.43 | _buz | but it doesnt inspire confidence at all. "So what else is not really working?? |
| 21:28.44 | SpeedEvil | (almost free for FIC to change) |
| 21:28.49 | mwester-laptop | speaking of which, I'd have expected an announcement as to FIC/OM's intentions on that by now. |
| 21:29.16 | _buz | mwester-laptop: i would have expected announcements on a great many issues by now |
| 21:29.35 | *** join/#openmoko pigeon (n=pigeon@218-214-60-232.people.net.au) |
| 21:29.37 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: i think the puzzle theme is really userfriendly, one knows instantly what has to be done |
| 21:30.13 | Writchie | mwester-laptop: this is really a no-brainer - you have to have European and American tri-band variants. |
| 21:30.22 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.177) |
| 21:31.10 | pavelm | ...actually, qtopia is gpl, so we can use their lock/key variant. |
| 21:31.10 | _buz | i'm a lot more worried about the continuing issues with PM and, on another scale, PR |
| 21:31.18 | Writchie | although personally, if I had the choice of 3 bands I'd go for 800/900/1900 |
| 21:31.27 | _buz | Writchie: NFW |
| 21:31.31 | IfChinsCouldKill | Borg: unfortunatelly I'm too stupid to integrate in in my qemu thing, so I wait for the you tube vid ;) |
| 21:31.34 | mwester-laptop | :) I know... and it shouldn't take more than a week for engineers to figure out the costs involved, and even less for the business managers to figure out their market, at which point the head honcho makes his decision. |
| 21:31.39 | _buz | there's 1800 only networks in europe |
| 21:31.44 | balrog-kun | pavelm: the theme yes, the code not really |
| 21:31.49 | mwester-laptop | So why are we still waiting to know? |
| 21:32.01 | balrog-kun | but we can do better than them too ;) |
| 21:32.05 | _buz | i'm beginning to think there are no head honchos |
| 21:32.13 | pavelm | balrog? qtopia should be gpl by now. |
| 21:32.15 | borg_ | IfChinsCouldKill: i will try to make one ;) |
| 21:33.00 | _buz | in fact, any kind of leadership seems conspicously absent |
| 21:33.04 | Writchie | _buz: but if given choice between 850 and 1800 anyone in US would choose the 850 |
| 21:33.06 | pavelm | does suspend/resume actually work for someone here? |
| 21:33.07 | balrog-kun | pavelm: i mean it is all gpl and very cool, but we can't use all of the code because the qtopia design is quite different from openmoko |
| 21:33.11 | Writchie | which is why you really need quadband. |
| 21:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko Ebbe (n=ebbe@users.kollegienet.dk) |
| 21:33.31 | pavelm | balrog: aha, ok, true; sorry for confusion. |
| 21:33.32 | balrog-kun | pavelm: different in almost every bit, starting from the programming language |
| 21:33.59 | hozer | ah crud.. can someone explain exactly what the quad vs tri band thing is? |
| 21:34.04 | hozer | on a wiki page? |
| 21:34.10 | balrog-kun | suspend/resuming the cpu works for me, but not waking up on modem events (but i haven't try doing anything about it yeT) |
| 21:34.17 | hozer | is this a board layout issue, firmware issue, or combination of both? |
| 21:34.32 | hozer | ... this explains why I get crappy T-mobile reception... |
| 21:34.33 | pavelm | hozer: quadband vs. triband? Different hw. |
| 21:34.40 | Writchie | balrog-kun: if I understand the licensing right none of qtopia can be used in lgpl code. |
| 21:34.41 | _buz | broken design |
| 21:34.47 | _buz | (hardware) |
| 21:35.03 | anrp | t mobile is mostly 1900 in the us |
| 21:35.12 | anrp | which works more or less fine |
| 21:35.16 | balrog-kun | Writchie: hmmm, i don't know, that's possible but that would be also true for all gpl code in openmoko and any other distro |
| 21:35.19 | Writchie | balrog-kun: i don't think the proper code is in the driver. |
| 21:35.32 | hozer | I'd like to see some description of exactly how the hardware is broken for GTA01 |
| 21:35.46 | balrog-kun | Writchie: which code? |
| 21:35.47 | Writchie | balrog-kun: yes - true for the gpl code but not the lgpl code |
| 21:35.59 | balrog-kun | or, which driver? |
| 21:36.07 | Writchie | the samsung serial port driver |
| 21:36.26 | pavelm | writchie: true. qtopia is deliberately GPL. You can't include it in LGPL code. |
| 21:36.30 | Writchie | there needs to be some fiddling - or I arrived at that opinion when I last looked at it. |
| 21:37.13 | balrog-kun | Writchie: right, there seems to be no code for serial wake-up but i suspect it would be possible to do with current hardware and modifying just the sefotware, through smart use of the gpio pins |
| 21:37.20 | balrog-kun | i'm not sure |
| 21:38.08 | Writchie | balrog-kun: I'll be doing this in the mux code - it may not need changes to the samsung driver if its handled by the line discipline. |
| 21:38.11 | zecke|flu | pavelm: you can include it in LGPL code, as LGPL can be relicensed to GPL ;) |
| 21:38.44 | pavelm | zecke: Ok, but result will be GPL... which is probalby not what you wanted. |
| 21:38.47 | pavelm | ;-) |
| 21:38.52 | balrog-kun | Writchie: you mean with the modified modem firmware? |
| 21:39.10 | Writchie | balrog-kun: modifed modem firmware? |
| 21:39.34 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:39.38 | pavelm | I'd say that it is easier to remove the transistor than make gsm chip ignore the reset line. |
| 21:39.52 | balrog-kun | Writchie: accroding to the wiki in current gta01v4b modem wake-up was not taken into accoutn at all and a firmware update was required |
| 21:40.11 | balrog-kun | i was suspecting that it may be possible anyway but others were rather sceptical about it |
| 21:40.16 | Writchie | balrog-kun: i didn't see that |
| 21:40.58 | Writchie | IIRC changes were put in the firmware prior to shipment that would permit RTS wakeup |
| 21:41.07 | balrog-kun | Writchie: it was discussed on the list, but there's also a summary of the discussion at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem#Wakeup_of_CPU_from_GSM_Modem |
| 21:41.15 | balrog-kun | put up by mwester-laptop i believe |
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| 21:42.23 | balrog-kun | Writchie: ah, that's possible too |
| 21:42.29 | roh | hozer if you need to contact sales for bigger volumes just mail them. |
| 21:43.08 | balrog-kun | my phone, which is not from the mass production batch is already confirmed to have the old, un-updated firmware :/ |
| 21:43.18 | roh | hozer sales@openmoko.com |
| 21:44.04 | pavelm | balrog: so there's more difference between green and red mainboards? |
| 21:44.37 | balrog-kun | pavelm: the mass production boards are green? then yes |
| 21:45.20 | roh | pavelm the green and the red should not have any difference in the hardware besides that transistor as far as i know. |
| 21:45.43 | Writchie | balrog-kun: IIRC this change is in there - I sure hope so. |
| 21:45.44 | roh | pavelm thats also why we refrained of bumping the number |
| 21:46.06 | pavelm | roh: I mean.. is the gsm firmware different? |
| 21:46.09 | balrog-kun | Writchie: yes, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem#AT.25VER would seem to indicate so |
| 21:46.19 | roh | hmm.. gsm firmware version could be higher on the mp ones, yesà |
| 21:46.24 | Writchie | roh: do you know if the modem firmware for GPIO output IO1 is in the shipped firmware |
| 21:46.24 | roh | but thats no hardware thing |
| 21:46.31 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 21:46.45 | balrog-kun | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem#AT.25VER lists the gsm firmware timestamps for different phases |
| 21:48.39 | Writchie | roh: it would be nice to have a change log for the gsm modem firmware versions. |
| 21:49.04 | Writchie | roh: nicer still the ability to reflash ;) |
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| 21:50.10 | pavelm | yep... reflash is important... I can find someone to remove transistor, but flashing gsm chips is probably harder |
| 21:51.27 | roh | Writchie heh.. i am sure as soon as we solved the flashing problem we can also somehow put a changelog into the public |
| 21:52.20 | pavelm | hmmm... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem is indeed interesting. It allows "netmonitor" implementation.... |
| 21:53.15 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylor (n=robtaylo@208-78-103-131.slicehost.net) |
| 21:54.21 | Writchie | balrog-kun: it appears that we should not enter suspend unless the gsmd is in a proper state, otherwise we will just come back of |
| 21:54.21 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 21:54.28 | Writchie | out of suspend with data loss. |
| 21:56.26 | roh | pavelm yes.... btw.. i somehow feel i need to point out that this information about the ti proprieatary commands does not come from fic or om ;) that was put into the wiki by someone else. |
| 21:57.04 | anrp | the mysterious anonymous |
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| 21:58.30 | Writchie | roh: yes it comes from others manfacturers of calypso based products that may interpret the NDA differently or have rights to release things that FIC does not. |
| 21:58.33 | *** join/#openmoko _kiney (n=kiney@p5B22C2D9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:58.33 | balrog-kun | it was put into the wiki by me and i have signed no NDA :) |
| 21:58.56 | roh | anrp well.. they are not anonymous, but from documentation which was not under nda, but for different products, using the same stuff |
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| 21:59.19 | roh | balrog-kun well.. you also did not use the stuff from ti which we signed the nda for, right? ;) |
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| 22:00.22 | balrog-kun | roh: right, besides none of the documents i've seen aout the modem had any information abotu any at commands :( |
| 22:02.07 | roh | ah |
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| 22:02.44 | pavelm | roh: I understand... NDAs are ugly stuff. |
| 22:02.48 | balrog-kun | actually there weren't any docs about the modem i think |
| 22:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@62.135.96.14) |
| 22:03.05 | balrog-kun | except perhaps the source code that harald and sean have access to |
| 22:04.13 | *** join/#openmoko faern (n=faern@faern.olf.sgsnet.se) |
| 22:04.26 | pavelm | ...aha, and GTA01_gsm_modem explains that I need both removed transistor and updated firmware :-(. |
| 22:05.08 | roh | balrog-kun well.. there is stuff. but its kept contained to only the few burned people who have access ;) |
| 22:06.47 | balrog-kun | roh: teh wiki page proves that TI docs for the modem are not really necessary for anything |
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| 22:13.50 | Writchie | roh: the RTSCTS flow control on the wiki doesn't look right. Isn't it bidirectional hardware flow control. |
| 22:16.25 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@220-245-23-46.free.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:17.32 | zecke|flu | ljp: ping? |
| 22:17.39 | ljp | zecke|flu: pong |
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| 22:21.28 | roh | Writchie ? |
| 22:22.54 | Writchie | true RTSCTS flow control is compatible with S3C2410A's auto flow control. |
| 22:23.09 | Writchie | RTS is the neos "Ready to Receive" |
| 22:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 22:23.47 | Writchie | CTS is the modems Ready to Receive |
| 22:23.54 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@53d828f6.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 22:23.54 | Writchie | each independant of the other |
| 22:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.31.81) |
| 22:24.44 | Writchie | in other words - the modem won't send to the NEO when RTS is low |
| 22:25.05 | Writchie | and CTS may be high, even when RTS is low |
| 22:26.08 | roh | Writchie the modem wakes up the cpu via an irq when the flowcontrol signals the cpu cannot recieve (e.g. in suspend to ram) |
| 22:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:27.29 | roh | Writchie exactly that is triggered when the modem resets due to the q1001 -bug ;) |
| 22:28.23 | Writchie | roh: but this is RTS from the neo - correct? |
| 22:28.43 | Writchie | and CTS on the neo is the ready to receive from the modem. |
| 22:29.20 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@mc25f36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 22:29.26 | Writchie | if the modem drops CTS and the neo keeps sending it will overrun. |
| 22:30.02 | roh | Writchie when the modem drops cts the neo should stop sending data to it.. |
| 22:30.29 | roh | hm.. to be exact i do not know if thats high or low-active logic there.. would need to fiddle that out of the docs. |
| 22:30.59 | Writchie | i think the levels are correct. |
| 22:31.32 | Writchie | it just that the wiki implies classe RTS from terminal CTS from modem operation and that not what it does - its a classic RTS/CTS flow control. |
| 22:31.51 | roh | well.. ive seen it working (suspend to ram) .. ive not tried wakeup by gsm recently, but that worked as well afaik |
| 22:32.17 | Writchie | have you run any high data rate streams like fax or HSCSD |
| 22:32.27 | Writchie | that is where the flow control will be an issue. |
| 22:32.32 | roh | the wiki is.. well the wiki. always press history is somethings bogus and take with a bucket of salt |
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| 22:32.41 | Writchie | roh: ack |
| 22:33.05 | Writchie | i'm not sure the stock driver for the serial is setup for auto flow control but i'll check it out. |
| 22:33.53 | Writchie | roh: it will be necessary to take control away from autoflow control to handle entry to suspend sanely |
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| 22:34.19 | pavelm | I read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/November_13%2C_2007_Community_Update ... if you have permission to release the gllin, just do that. |
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| 22:35.01 | pavelm | If your legal department is still not sure, tell me which version of gllin is okay to release and I'll place it on the web somewhere.... |
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| 22:35.24 | Writchie | roh: what driver "owns" the interrupt input for GSM wakeup? |
| 22:37.04 | roh | Writchie uh.. dunno |
| 22:37.28 | roh | Writchie should be the serial one ... atleast thats where i would search |
| 22:40.31 | CVirus | Where is this page that had the other devices that can run OpenMoko ? |
| 22:41.02 | *** join/#openmoko ferric_ (n=aditya@mc35f36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 22:41.31 | CVirus | found it http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_Hardware |
| 22:43.19 | mwester-laptop | Writchie: There is nothing unusual about the hw flow control with the modem; if the wiki implies otherwise, then I wrote the text incorrectly. :( |
| 22:43.50 | mwester-laptop | Writchie: but there might be some issues if one needs to "mess with" the flow control for suspend, as it is done by hardware, not the driver. |
| 22:44.36 | anrp | flow control? pah :-) |
| 22:44.39 | anrp | infinite buffers ftw |
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| 22:45.18 | Writchie | the part "when hardware flow control is enabled, a given endpoint is expected to assert its RTS line when it has data to transmit" is the part that is not class hardware flow control |
| 22:45.36 | mwester-laptop | How so? |
| 22:45.39 | Writchie | for bidirectional |
| 22:45.53 | Ghiottone | hi all |
| 22:45.56 | Writchie | RTS/CTS is class for Terminal to Modem. |
| 22:46.12 | mwester-laptop | Yes. |
| 22:46.14 | Writchie | s/class/classic/ |
| 22:46.42 | Writchie | but this is really a two wire RTR control. |
| 22:46.55 | Writchie | modem asserts its line when its ready to receive. |
| 22:47.05 | Writchie | terminal asserts its line when its ready to receive. |
| 22:47.15 | Writchie | nobody says they are ready to send |
| 22:47.20 | mwester-laptop | I can't speak modemese. The rts on A is connnected to cts on B, and vice versa. |
| 22:47.36 | Writchie | yes - |
| 22:47.50 | mwester-laptop | Feel free to correct the terminology in the wiki. |
| 22:48.01 | Writchie | ok |
| 22:48.35 | Writchie | the cross connected RTS/CTS type of hardware flow control involves no processor intervention. |
| 22:48.48 | Writchie | its' handled when the fifo's are near full on both sides. |
| 22:49.04 | Writchie | its the only one that reliable with small 16 byte fifos |
| 22:49.08 | mwester-laptop | Yes. |
| 22:49.09 | Writchie | running at higher speeds |
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| 22:58.40 | mwester-laptop | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:58.46 | mwester-laptop | I'm betting it's lost. |
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| 22:59.07 | Writchie | suspend is really CPU OFF so yes - it's gone |
| 22:59.27 | SpeedEvil | there are assorted STR modes |
| 22:59.35 | SpeedEvil | you can turn the CPU off but no the periphs |
| 22:59.39 | Writchie | somehow I smell a race but I have to think it all the way through |
| 22:59.41 | mwester-laptop | So we really need to assert that the fifo is empty before suspend occurs. |
| 22:59.50 | SpeedEvil | but that isn't very low power |
| 23:00.23 | SpeedEvil | It'd be _so_ much easier if there was a PIC controlling all of this stuff. |
| 23:00.25 | Writchie | the deep suspend is CPU off except for one internal register everything is lost - and SDRAM is saved |
| 23:00.28 | SpeedEvil | (IMO) |
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| 23:00.58 | anrp | yay, more processors |
| 23:01.05 | anrp | not that i disagree, i think you're right |
| 23:01.25 | SpeedEvil | For a phone selling millions, it's a bad call. |
| 23:01.40 | SpeedEvil | you don't do that, you get it right the first time, and if need be make custom silicon. |
| 23:01.55 | anrp | millions, eh :-) |
| 23:02.22 | Writchie | i agree - given the usual unknowns reset an PM are best handled by a small reprogrammble low power microcontroller. |
| 23:02.26 | SpeedEvil | For a phone selling 10K-100K absolute tops, you may well want to take the tiny area and power hit in order to make it so much more flexible |
| 23:02.53 | SpeedEvil | Given that the class of PIC involved is well under $1 |
| 23:03.09 | tuukkah | more ideas for gta03 :-) |
| 23:03.29 | anrp | i wouldn't use a pic, simply because they have a terrible arch |
| 23:03.32 | anrp | i like avr8 more |
| 23:03.38 | anrp | but that's completely peripheral to the design issue |
| 23:03.40 | Writchie | personally, i'd use an ti 430 |
| 23:04.00 | Writchie | and a xilinx cpld to route the hardware signals around more flexibly |
| 23:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko poffy__ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:04.12 | anrp | if you're feeling really evil you'd use an arm720t ;) |
| 23:04.40 | Writchie | its a bit higher in power than the ti's |
| 23:04.44 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@33.84-49-135.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:04.45 | Writchie | and less forgiving |
| 23:08.17 | Writchie | and one led from the microcontroller to tell you WTF is going on |
| 23:08.36 | anrp | a signal, a light, a sound, anything! |
| 23:08.50 | anrp | sadly, i think that there'd be nothing, simply keeping with the spirit of om up to now :( |
| 23:09.03 | Writchie | my battery charge indicator is now three times the size of the phone |
| 23:09.28 | balrog-kun | gta02 has not one, but two LEDs :) |
| 23:09.37 | anrp | you could use an improperly designed switching regulator as a buzzer .. |
| 23:09.53 | Writchie | except the whole f&$%8king world has to be running to drive the LED's |
| 23:10.19 | Writchie | well - just u-boot i guess |
| 23:10.26 | balrog-kun | not necesarily |
| 23:10.41 | balrog-kun | i mean the whole world has to be running to change the state of the LEDs, yes |
| 23:10.53 | balrog-kun | but you can leave them on when you go to sleep |
| 23:11.07 | *** join/#openmoko pigeon (n=pigeon@218-214-60-232.people.net.au) |
| 23:11.15 | balrog-kun | it would be nice if the PMU could be told to driver the LEDs |
| 23:11.20 | balrog-kun | *drive |
| 23:11.20 | SpeedEvil | It can |
| 23:11.25 | Writchie | the PMU has modes for this |
| 23:11.30 | tuukkah | a "there's enough charge to light a LED" LED |
| 23:11.32 | SpeedEvil | It can drive LEDs to flash in various patterns |
| 23:11.35 | Writchie | but I don't think that's howe the LED's are wired. |
| 23:11.38 | balrog-kun | ah cool |
| 23:11.44 | Writchie | hopefully I'm wrong. |
| 23:11.49 | balrog-kun | Writchie: :( |
| 23:12.19 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: we have - AIUI - no docs on the GTA02 PMU |
| 23:12.22 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@33.84-49-135.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:12.25 | Writchie | it's a different PMU on the GTA02 with no docs |
| 23:12.48 | balrog-kun | the pcf50633? |
| 23:13.08 | Writchie | i can't find them on NXP site typically need to buy millions chip |
| 23:13.16 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 23:13.46 | Writchie | could get them from a local rep but then I'd just be disappointed not knowing how its wired ;) |
| 23:14.18 | balrog-kun | hmmm, indeed it says "Philips confidential" inthe background of every page |
| 23:14.26 | balrog-kun | ;) |
| 23:14.57 | Writchie | typical of parts for mobile industry |
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| 23:15.21 | Writchie | you don't want a knock off before you lock in your volume buyers. |
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| 23:15.44 | balrog-kun | in this version it includes an original I^2C logo on the firts page, unlike the 50606 datasheet iirc |
| 23:16.12 | balrog-kun | i wonder if they paid the license fee for the logo or are only putting it on non-public docs |
| 23:18.24 | edistar | ja |
| 23:20.22 | anrp | wot |
| 23:20.58 | balrog-kun | or software bugs |
| 23:21.08 | balrog-kun | or spinach! |
| 23:21.40 | mwester-laptop | You know that there was never such a thing as the "first" lawyer, right? There had to be a pair, because the only reason you need a lawyer is because someone else has one. |
| 23:21.59 | Writchie | yeah - like nuclear weapons |
| 23:22.27 | mwester-laptop | Which just goes to prove that lawyers are "in cahoots" with each other all the way back through time. |
| 23:23.16 | Writchie | 2nd oldest profession |
| 23:23.53 | mwester-laptop | One wonders which of the two professions is the more disreputable. |
| 23:24.02 | Writchie | that's easy |
| 23:24.40 | Writchie | one makes an honest living |
| 23:25.23 | balrog-kun | hmm the pcf50633 has an RTC encryption mode |
| 23:25.41 | balrog-kun | why would you want to occult the current time and date so much? |
| 23:25.41 | SpeedEvil | A what? |
| 23:25.47 | SpeedEvil | well |
| 23:25.59 | SpeedEvil | if it's _good_ encryption - that could be really handy |
| 23:26.03 | SpeedEvil | provable timestamps |
| 23:26.14 | SpeedEvil | but it's probably not |
| 23:26.24 | Writchie | trusted computing here we come |
| 23:26.45 | Writchie | maybe its for android mode ;) |
| 23:26.47 | SpeedEvil | for example, ship the chip a packet of data, it then signs it with the current time and a secret, and passes it back. |
| 23:27.05 | SpeedEvil | you know the secret - you set it in the first place on your PC or wahtever |
| 23:27.21 | SpeedEvil | so that you can verify that it was in fact timestamped at that time |
| 23:27.54 | balrog-kun | hmm, doesn't sound like an extremely useful thing |
| 23:28.12 | Writchie | since the PM battery will last the lifetime of the product this could be neat (and evil) |
| 23:28.41 | balrog-kun | there's an Ambien Light Monitor input, too |
| 23:28.43 | SpeedEvil | balrog-kun: consider if you want authenticated signatures from customers that their packet has arrived. |
| 23:29.08 | SpeedEvil | balrog-kun: it's now _much_ harder for the delivery person to do stuff to the timestamp |
| 23:29.22 | *** join/#openmoko linuxxr (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 23:29.27 | SpeedEvil | (as a most trivial application) |
| 23:29.33 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@33.84-49-135.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:30.04 | balrog-kun | SpeedEvil: about as useful as encrypting any chosen part in the message |
| 23:30.29 | SpeedEvil | no - you sign the signature of a given file. - which is the image of the signature. |
| 23:30.30 | balrog-kun | it may be the timestamp or a part of some header or something else |
| 23:30.40 | SpeedEvil | and its time |
| 23:30.55 | SpeedEvil | and then you have a timestamped signature that it really happened at that time. |
| 23:33.15 | balrog-kun | well, that might potentially have some use |
| 23:33.43 | balrog-kun | it seems the pcf50633 also works as a 5V USB power supply |
| 23:34.09 | Writchie | for powering the USB host or OTG |
| 23:35.06 | balrog-kun | probably general-purpose |
| 23:36.02 | Writchie | i mean that's probably why the chose it, 5V not very useful these days for much else |
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| 23:44.52 | pavelm | ...that's how the PC world works. |
| 23:44.56 | pavelm | ...it is a nightmare. |
| 23:46.37 | pavelm | Speed: encrypted timestamps... |
| 23:46.51 | pavelm | ...you'd need quite good battery, very close to the RTC chip... |
| 23:47.03 | pavelm | ...and RTC chip that does not need adjusting during its lifetime. |
| 23:47.09 | pavelm | ...not too practical I'd say. |
| 23:48.56 | pavelm | anyway, I think I need some sleep. |
| 23:52.32 | balrog-kun | pavelm: good night |
| 23:52.37 | pavelm | good night all. |
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