| 00:00.09 | Vegar | you think? |
| 00:00.13 | webjames | shame, what am i going to get myself for christmas now? |
| 00:01.14 | thresh | n810 :) |
| 00:01.21 | webjames | any other 'must have' gadgets? |
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| 00:01.53 | Vegar | why do you doubt December, SpeedEvil? |
| 00:02.19 | webjames | thresh, hmm, i'm not sure. what about an Eee? |
| 00:02.28 | eonj | OLPC |
| 00:02.35 | SpeedEvil | Because for a start, no developer test machines have gone out to the wider community. |
| 00:02.50 | SpeedEvil | This means that no beta testing has even started yet |
| 00:03.18 | webjames | eonj, does it have a winding handle now? |
| 00:03.26 | tuukkah | webjames, an olpc machine! |
| 00:03.39 | eonj | webjames: no, the one you can buy from give 1 get 1 just has a power cord |
| 00:03.55 | eonj | ive ordered it already :D only toy i need for xmas |
| 00:03.57 | Vegar | oh man |
| 00:04.01 | Vegar | GTA02A5? |
| 00:04.22 | webjames | i like the idea, but i think an Eee for mee is more practical |
| 00:04.46 | webjames | eonj, good job though, give one get one like it. |
| 00:05.11 | SpeedEvil | Even if you horribly compress the timelines - say that test machines hit beta devs in 5 days, then evaluate them for 14 days, then we're already into about the 10th of december |
| 00:05.44 | SpeedEvil | add another 10 days to complete production, 5 days to ship to the US, ... |
| 00:05.45 | Vegar | the comments on http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=957 mentions GTA02A5 |
| 00:05.58 | SpeedEvil | and this is neglecting that thign |
| 00:06.18 | webjames | Vegar, oh yeah. |
| 00:06.33 | webjames | maybe willie made a typo |
| 00:06.54 | SpeedEvil | That doesn't actually imply GTA0204 isn't shippable. |
| 00:07.14 | SpeedEvil | A coloumb counter int he battery is very unimportant |
| 00:07.23 | SpeedEvil | unless you change batteries often |
| 00:08.11 | webjames | thanks mwester, and SpeedEvil you're right, but if you knew there was a new version around the corner wouldn't you wait? |
| 00:08.25 | SpeedEvil | well - not for a coloumb counter |
| 00:08.39 | SpeedEvil | it's maybe a couple of percent better battery charge state estimation. |
| 00:09.06 | SpeedEvil | I'd actually rather they leave it out and make the battery $1 cheaper |
| 00:09.25 | SpeedEvil | the current problems are _not_ due to difficulty in estimating charge state |
| 00:09.40 | mwester | ;) understatement. |
| 00:09.59 | Vegar | are there any problems? |
| 00:10.13 | SpeedEvil | what do you mean? |
| 00:10.44 | Vegar | SpeedEvil: you said "the current problems are ..." |
| 00:11.02 | SpeedEvil | well. |
| 00:11.30 | SpeedEvil | As far as I understand it, the problems that bother me way more than the lack of a battery counter. |
| 00:11.38 | tuukkah | rather than discuss this on irc, we should make a status report :-) |
| 00:11.39 | SpeedEvil | Can't wake on bluetooth. |
| 00:12.01 | SpeedEvil | This means that you can't make a call with the phone in your pocket from a BT headset. |
| 00:12.37 | tuukkah | ... unless there's some life in the phone |
| 00:12.40 | Vegar | unless it's woken up |
| 00:12.43 | SpeedEvil | The accelerometers suck - they need upgraded. (though I may be in a minority in this position, it's not actually a problem - but a lack of funcionality compared to what it can be) |
| 00:12.46 | raster | or its awake |
| 00:12.52 | raster | in which case its burning through battery |
| 00:12.54 | raster | :) |
| 00:12.57 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: tuukkah: ra: yes - of course |
| 00:13.10 | webjames | SpeedEvil, accelerometer hardware sucks? |
| 00:13.18 | mwester | Does that also imply that the car kits will also require a hand to wake the phone - which would render a car kit less than completely useful. |
| 00:13.31 | SpeedEvil | webjames: it's basically 16* less accurate than the rather sucky state-of-the-art |
| 00:14.01 | SpeedEvil | mwester: maybe - you could do a USB power thing on the phone and wake it through that. |
| 00:14.23 | SpeedEvil | mwester: but that raises a harder to fix problem - the USB connector sucks as a dock port |
| 00:14.31 | tuukkah | mwester, wouldn't a car kit provide power? also, you can wake up the processor every second or so to check |
| 00:14.51 | mwester | True, but if you solved the mechanical issue, you would also have no worries about the power. |
| 00:15.24 | bagpuss_thecat | woah, no wakeup from bluetooth? |
| 00:15.25 | raster | SpeedEvil: it should be at the bottom for that - but it isn't, and it's a bit hard given the current design to put it there |
| 00:15.28 | SpeedEvil | No :/ |
| 00:15.33 | bagpuss_thecat | that resigns it to doorstop functionality for a lot of people |
| 00:15.46 | SpeedEvil | raster: yes - somewhat. I have case ideas that may fix this. |
| 00:15.56 | mwester | However, the bluetooth carkits I'm seeing lately don't worry about powering the phone, so I guess that would mean a spare battery would be a good thing to take on a trip. :) |
| 00:15.59 | SpeedEvil | raster: but it's not really trivial |
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| 00:16.03 | raster | SpeedEvil: i suspect they won't happen for the gta-02 |
| 00:16.07 | raster | :( |
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| 00:16.11 | webjames | SpeedEvil, Re:accelerometers. that sucks |
| 00:16.24 | SpeedEvil | webjames: they are fine for telling which way up the device is. |
| 00:16.34 | SpeedEvil | and to within a reasonable accuracy. |
| 00:17.10 | SpeedEvil | See the Technical:Accellerometer_fundamentals page on the wiki for some actual numbers. Most of the numbers are based on the state of the art devices - not the ones in the phone |
| 00:17.14 | webjames | well i guess thats good enough for a first version, things can only get better from there |
| 00:17.17 | tuukkah | is it that bad to connect the phone to a cigarette lighter-usb charger when in your car |
| 00:17.40 | SpeedEvil | tuukkah: no - it's rather more annoying than just being able to slam it into a cradle |
| 00:17.58 | bagpuss_thecat | slam it into the door, it may be more use there... |
| 00:18.17 | mwester | tuukkah: Not really, but the way the plug comes off the side makes it very awkward to place in a holder, and increases the probability of damage to the connector if the phone slides off the seat or dash. |
| 00:18.22 | SpeedEvil | to safely be able to slam the neo into the cradle, you need a usb connector that inserts gently once the neo is in the holder |
| 00:18.35 | raster | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer |
| 00:18.36 | SpeedEvil | which is mechanically very tricky |
| 00:18.41 | webjames | what about micro usb? it's aparently tougher |
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| 00:18.57 | SpeedEvil | webjames: the problem is not toughness - it's misalignment tollerance. |
| 00:19.18 | Vegar | http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/fic_neo1973_car_kit.jpg |
| 00:19.19 | SpeedEvil | in either connector, if you're off by 0.5mm, the metal bits hit and bind, don't slide |
| 00:19.21 | Vegar | what about that thing? |
| 00:19.37 | SpeedEvil | that just looks like a suction cup and a clamp - nothing active |
| 00:19.47 | bagpuss_thecat | ja |
| 00:19.54 | webjames | yeah, i think thats just mounting |
| 00:20.01 | Vegar | yeah |
| 00:20.20 | SpeedEvil | with 'proper' dock connectors, they contain guide features so that they orient the phone to within the tollerances required for the connector |
| 00:20.35 | tuukkah | does the cradle really need to use vertical orientation of the phone? |
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| 00:20.59 | SpeedEvil | no - however try - with your hand held rigid - plugging the USB connector into the phone. |
| 00:21.10 | SpeedEvil | There is _Very_ little misalignment tollerance |
| 00:21.20 | Vegar | tuukkah: horizontal might be better for navigation |
| 00:21.28 | mwester | No, not really. And if one plugs it in sideways, the GPS connector is also at the bottom and can be connected. |
| 00:22.51 | mwester | But looking at the GPS connector, it doesn't seem that it would take a lot of cycles before it would succumb to wear and damage. |
| 00:22.57 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, then what about a specially designed usb plug that does some guiding? |
| 00:23.22 | SpeedEvil | tuukkah: I think so - but they are not standard - the basic problem is that the phone needs to be designed around the plug |
| 00:23.58 | webjames | it's weird the usb is on the side, but whats wrong with syncing it on it's side? |
| 00:24.07 | SpeedEvil | the phone needs to have suitable features so a dock can grab them and guide the phone down to hit the plug in the right place - the guiding features then just complete the alignment |
| 00:24.48 | SpeedEvil | webjames: nothing - the problem is that the USB plug as used is really unsuited for automated insertion. pull the plug out. Move it 0.5mm up, down, left or right, try to plug it back in. |
| 00:25.26 | webjames | i see, micro usb wouldn't be any better also unless it had a couple of grooves |
| 00:25.50 | SpeedEvil | Also if that plug does not go in cleanly, it will over time rip the USB socket off the board. |
| 00:26.02 | SpeedEvil | Or at least make it unreliable. |
| 00:26.34 | webjames | yeah, i see the problem. two groves on either side would mean it would make it possible to slide it in like on rails into the dock |
| 00:26.42 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 00:27.07 | SpeedEvil | it _could_ be done with the existing phone - but it's a more complex dock, and it will wear the case of the neo a lot. |
| 00:27.12 | webjames | and it wouldn't make it look any worse in my opinion |
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| 00:28.44 | webjames | thing is it's possible without groves, just get a dock that fits the phones dimensions |
| 00:29.03 | SpeedEvil | The best solution I came up with for a better dock was basically to move the GPS antenna all the way left, and put a vertically oriented USB socket there. |
| 00:29.07 | SpeedEvil | It's possible. |
| 00:29.28 | SpeedEvil | the problem is that the clearance required is so small that the phone will not slide cleanly into the dock |
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| 00:30.26 | SpeedEvil | mechanical design is as tricky as electronic design really. |
| 00:30.38 | webjames | if you had it charging like an electric toothbrush, you could sync via bluetooth and no plug required |
| 00:30.39 | SpeedEvil | And often as important to the user experience. |
| 00:31.07 | SpeedEvil | webjames: if you integrated a shrew on a treadmill, you could power it with earthworms. |
| 00:31.29 | SpeedEvil | alas - that raises other problems. |
| 00:31.45 | SpeedEvil | Notably that the magnetic field needs to be quite high |
| 00:31.58 | SpeedEvil | and the reciever coil needs to be moderately large. |
| 00:32.06 | webjames | inductive coupling |
| 00:32.18 | SpeedEvil | yes, I know, and have designed such systems. |
| 00:32.20 | webjames | yeah, i don't think it's viable. but cool |
| 00:32.39 | SpeedEvil | it is viable - but every cc of phone volume is a constant battle. |
| 00:32.59 | Vegar | not to mention weight |
| 00:33.08 | SpeedEvil | that too. |
| 00:34.18 | tuukkah | every kilogram of it ;-) |
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| 00:35.54 | webjames | haha |
| 00:37.47 | webjames | the eee looks cool |
| 00:38.22 | tuukkah | no, i wouldn't be worried of the hardware design now. we have hardware that would work if there was proper software |
| 00:38.35 | webjames | yeah |
| 00:38.58 | tuukkah | time for gta02 and later is later |
| 00:42.16 | tuukkah | i don't hear much from people actually using the phone for something |
| 00:43.41 | Vegar | I wonder if the gta02's battery life is ever going to be able to compete with other phones' battery life |
| 00:44.14 | tuukkah | Vegar, the better we make the power management, the better it will be able to compete :-) |
| 00:44.39 | Vegar | yes, but at a certain point you won't be able to improve the power management much |
| 00:45.05 | webjames | in theory it could be better, by that i mean better managed, more customisable |
| 00:45.18 | tuukkah | an approximation would be to take the capacity of the battery and divide by drain of the gsm chip |
| 00:45.51 | Vegar | yeah, that would be the ultimate, wouldn't it? |
| 00:46.55 | Vegar | so what's the drain of the gsm chip? |
| 00:47.03 | Vegar | I'm sure SpeedEvil knows |
| 00:47.27 | tuukkah | Idle, but connected to network, 45mW |
| 00:47.44 | mwester | I'm not sure that we do know - it too has power management abilities that are not yet turned on in the Neo. |
| 00:47.55 | tuukkah | 3500mWh from battery |
| 00:48.03 | Writchie|lunch | it should be about 10 mw in gsm idle if its handled right |
| 00:48.32 | Writchie | based on other modules with this chipset |
| 00:48.39 | tuukkah | my numbers would give standby of a bit more than three days |
| 00:48.52 | Vegar | 77.78 hours at 45mW |
| 00:49.06 | Vegar | tuukkah: is that the GTA01 or the GTA02 battery? |
| 00:49.13 | tuukkah | i took the numbers from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management#Approximate_power_draw_of_various_subsystems |
| 00:49.35 | Writchie | those were wags IIRC |
| 00:50.38 | tuukkah | we get the ballpark at least, i hope |
| 00:50.57 | Vegar | yeah |
| 00:51.34 | Vegar | especially with the extra 500mA in the GTA02's battery |
| 00:52.24 | Writchie | which the WiFi and GPU will pretty well eat up |
| 00:52.46 | Vegar | not if you shut down the wifi when you're not using it |
| 00:53.22 | tuukkah | currently i get something like four hours of use as an ogg player |
| 00:53.34 | Writchie | if all is handled well, gsm talk time and idle standby should be ok. |
| 00:53.51 | Vegar | Anything that beats my old siemens C55 will do |
| 00:54.22 | tuukkah | and unlimited use as a gprs modem for my laptop :-) |
| 00:55.24 | Writchie | gprs use will be very high power when actually active because SoC has to be running |
| 00:56.40 | tuukkah | i connect over usb for several reasons :-) |
| 01:01.38 | webjames | i'm disappointed it doesn't look good for December |
| 01:03.08 | Vegar | webjames: you could mention at the community updates thing in the wiki to get some kind of official statement |
| 01:04.16 | Writchie | mwester: ping |
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| 01:04.45 | Vegar | mention it* |
| 01:05.15 | webjames | Vegar, i could, but i guess if they knew for certain they'd mention it themselves |
| 01:07.12 | webjames | if engineers started testing the new revision start of this month, then it's still a possibly |
| 01:08.09 | SpeedEvil | It's still a possibility for a poorly tested version to be rushed out |
| 01:08.21 | SpeedEvil | it may well work just fine. |
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| 01:08.40 | webjames | yeah, obviously mass market wont happen december |
| 01:08.51 | SpeedEvil | but as I understand it at the moment, the drivers are not really up to using the devices for day-day testing even. |
| 01:08.58 | SpeedEvil | (at the moment) |
| 01:09.13 | SpeedEvil | (I havne't been keeping up very well over the past couple of weeks, I may be wrong) |
| 01:10.18 | webjames | i have heard it's good for making/receiving calls atm, but obviously battery life is a problem, not to mention sms |
| 01:10.42 | Vegar | details, details |
| 01:11.26 | SpeedEvil | (I'm talking here of GTA02 drivers) |
| 01:11.40 | SpeedEvil | (and completely omitting mention of GTA01 GPS drivers) |
| 01:13.19 | webjames | as long as the hardware is relatively sound, software can be updated |
| 01:13.41 | SpeedEvil | indeed - my point is that the drivers at the moment are not mature enough to use the device enough to expose hardware bugs. |
| 01:14.46 | webjames | i see, shame. |
| 01:16.08 | webjames | oh well time shall tell |
| 01:16.24 | webjames | i just want a new toy at christmas |
| 01:17.25 | webjames | the neo is the coolest thing i can find |
| 01:19.33 | webjames | the $200 gOS pc thing is cool |
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| 01:22.37 | mmontour | OLPC is cool too - I really want to see that sunlight-readable screen |
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| 01:27.10 | webjames | yeah, good idea. but not for me |
| 01:27.14 | webjames | anyway night |
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| 01:57.16 | bmk789__ | it would be really cool if someone really into openmoko would make a weekly podcast of whats going on in the development world |
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| 05:15.45 | atul | how to use tooltip in Gtktreeview model |
| 05:17.55 | orospakr | so, yeah, what's the story these days on the GSM modem flakiness, including enabling 850 MHz and the pesky 3G SIM cards? |
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| 05:20.01 | mmontour | orospakr: Check "Community Updates" on the wiki. 850 MHz won't happen for GTA01, the 3G is fixed but end users can't update their own firmware |
| 05:20.18 | orospakr | mmontour: yeah, that's what I saw. |
| 05:20.26 | orospakr | I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't have done GTA 01. |
| 05:21.02 | mmontour | You're in an 850-only area? |
| 05:21.22 | orospakr | Shame on me for not taking the "development hardware" message seriously enough. I mostly thought that any incompleteness would be on the application processor side, and that the GSM and phone hardware itself would be pretty close. |
| 05:21.56 | orospakr | mmontour: actually no, afaik, but my modem always appears to die on registration: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=911 |
| 05:22.05 | orospakr | (the comments don't appear to be about the same problem, btw) |
| 05:22.44 | mmontour | If you have the 3G problem you can send your phone back to OpenMoko (in California) and they'll flash it for you |
| 05:23.02 | orospakr | yeah, I don't think it's that, actually - the two cards I tested it with are more than 2 years old. |
| 05:23.19 | orospakr | no one from OpenMoko so much as triaged my bug though, which annoyed me a little |
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| 05:33.19 | mbuf | what is wrong with this .bb file? http://pastebin.ca/792159, it doesn't run autogen.sh and build the package |
| 05:33.26 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 05:36.18 | atul | Openmok build 2007.2 Failed check out here http://pastebin.ca/792162 |
| 05:38.38 | CM | orospakr: I wasn't able to call reliably with my GTA01 until 3 days ago |
| 05:39.05 | mbuf | "inherit autotools" in .bb file will not invoke autogen.sh script? it requires Makefile.am? |
| 05:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 05:46.32 | orospakr | CM: I just downloaded the image from the 13th |
| 05:46.36 | orospakr | is that a known good? |
| 05:46.43 | CM | Nope |
| 05:46.47 | CM | Didn't work at all for me |
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| 05:46.58 | orospakr | hm, so I need to rebuild with mokomakefile? |
| 05:47.13 | CM | Either that, or take mine: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/2007.2/ |
| 05:47.25 | orospakr | heh, thanks. :) |
| 05:47.35 | CM | It's just the standard openmoko images, built on sunday eve |
| 05:48.26 | CM | It has the latest revision of gsmd and it's the first time I've been able to call and recieve calls straight after booting :) |
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| 07:42.06 | flexd | hmmm |
| 07:42.35 | hachi | bleeeehhhhhhh |
| 07:42.40 | hachi | new glibc |
| 07:42.53 | hachi | waiting hours for my build to happen again it seems :\ |
| 07:43.33 | CM | What's wrong? |
| 07:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=moravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 07:44.06 | hachi | u-boot won't let my phone boot like 95% of the time |
| 07:44.11 | hachi | so I'm hoping something... anything |
| 07:44.21 | CM | Ouch.. :( |
| 07:44.22 | hachi | will just nudge the timing a bit so it boots a little more often |
| 07:44.34 | hachi | I'm so tired of holding the power button down ;) |
| 07:44.37 | CM | I never power mine off |
| 07:45.10 | mmontour | hachi: are you going into the u-boot menu with the Aux button, then booting from there? |
| 07:45.21 | hachi | no, trying to just let it boot |
| 07:45.37 | hachi | cause the aux button is harder to hold than the power button |
| 07:45.53 | CM | hachi: Hmm.. Is your uboot-env ok? |
| 07:46.18 | mmontour | Try it from the Aux menu. There is a known bug with some uboots if you just boot normally (don't remember the number) |
| 07:46.22 | hachi | do I need to purge it between flashes? I haven't seen anything about that |
| 07:46.49 | CM | hachi: No, don't touch the uboot_env |
| 07:46.59 | CM | I did, and now I do have some problems.. |
| 07:47.02 | hachi | righto :) |
| 07:47.19 | CM | Or rather, a bad uboot wrote a kernel over it |
| 07:47.43 | CM | And now I don't get that nice uboot menu so I can get the usb console and all that |
| 07:47.56 | hachi | usb console never did anything for me |
| 07:48.01 | hachi | I tried it about 20 times |
| 07:48.23 | CM | Heh |
| 07:48.54 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:49.00 | torpor | hachi: clean your NAND. |
| 07:49.29 | torpor | usb console is important |
| 07:49.32 | torpor | you should have it. |
| 07:49.47 | torpor | all you guys with faulty uboots need to beware, and put a known-good one on there, and leave it there. |
| 07:50.12 | hachi | I could go back to the august image, that one worked well |
| 07:50.19 | hachi | or I could use yours CM... huurrrrrr |
| 07:51.08 | mmontour | torpor: problem is there is no "good" one - you have to pick which bugs you can live with :) |
| 07:51.55 | CM | hachi: The one I use, and that's on the net is built by ScaredyCat. He used it for a long while too |
| 07:52.05 | blindcoder | moin |
| 07:52.56 | torpor | may |
| 07:53.09 | torpor | yeah use scaredy's.. |
| 07:53.33 | hachi | okay, for giggles |
| 07:54.19 | hachi | what is the usb console supposed to do? I assumed it was supposed to redirect the linux console to show up overthe USB ACM device. Mostly because the console of u-boot is always available via the ACM device as far as I can see |
| 07:54.41 | CM | hachi: Is it? How new uboot do you use now? |
| 07:54.51 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn167240.wlan.jku.at) |
| 07:55.20 | hachi | "set console to usb" makes the phone show 'press aux to return to ..' and then it returns to the main menu a few seconds later |
| 07:55.28 | mmontour | The alternative to usb-console is that the uboot console is on the debug-board serial port |
| 07:55.31 | hachi | no change in output on the ACM usb device is seen at all |
| 07:55.40 | hachi | oh |
| 07:55.42 | hachi | I see |
| 07:55.50 | CM | I don't get any usb ACM otherwise |
| 07:56.03 | hachi | so the thing is, I don't have a debug board, so I never set it to serial |
| 07:56.10 | hachi | I figured, no need to choose that :) |
| 07:56.14 | CM | Just can't use cu or minicom |
| 07:56.39 | hachi | use cu or minicom to what end? |
| 07:56.40 | CM | If your uboot is later than october 15th, usb console is default |
| 07:56.49 | CM | To connect to uboot over usb |
| 07:57.01 | hachi | mmm |
| 07:57.22 | hachi | I use screen as my tty endpoint |
| 07:57.38 | hachi | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:57.42 | CM | I haven't tried that, I just use screen as screen.. |
| 07:58.18 | hachi | yeah, I'm in screen too |
| 07:58.36 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 07:58.38 | torpor | you can connect to u-boot over USB to issue u-boot console commands .. its quite useful. |
| 07:59.17 | hachi | could I get a hint as to the path to scardycat's u-boot perchance? |
| 07:59.47 | hachi | or a hint as to how I should find it |
| 08:00.06 | CM | hachi: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/2007.2/ |
| 08:00.21 | CM | That's what's on my phone right now |
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| 08:05.58 | hachi | nope... guess I'm headed back to the august image |
| 08:10.44 | *** join/#openmoko E78C8EE4BABA (n=hunter@shell.icgroup.com) |
| 08:10.47 | hachi | :( |
| 08:11.03 | hachi | buildhost went down again |
| 08:11.22 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:50.03 | atul | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:51.07 | CM | atul: ? :) |
| 08:51.35 | atul | CM, sorry by mistake i check it and bymistak past here |
| 08:51.55 | CM | No problem, just wondered |
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| 09:18.00 | ScaredyCat | has someone cocked up svn again ? |
| 09:19.06 | XorA | ScaredyCat: in what way? |
| 09:19.43 | ScaredyCat | svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/!svn/vcc/default' |
| 09:19.58 | XorA | ScaredyCat: what bb file? |
| 09:20.05 | ScaredyCat | iirc that's caused by permissions issue on the server.. |
| 09:20.16 | ScaredyCat | openmoko svn - not a .bb file |
| 09:20.59 | XorA | hmm, I just pulled from there 40 mins ago |
| 09:22.06 | ScaredyCat | can you try again, from the openmoko dir, just a svn up |
| 09:22.26 | atul | CM, I still stuck with the Gtk Treeview tooltip please give some solution |
| 09:23.48 | XorA | ScaredyCat: yes, just did, worked |
| 09:24.01 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 09:24.03 | XorA | Updated to revision 3462. |
| 09:24.12 | ScaredyCat | still failing for me here :( |
| 09:24.25 | XorA | sounds like you have a http proxy in the way |
| 09:24.35 | XorA | we used to get that at Wolfson due to crappy bloxx proxy |
| 09:25.13 | ScaredyCat | no proxy here... |
| 09:26.40 | XorA | your ISP being dingbats? |
| 09:28.01 | *** join/#openmoko neenaoffline (n=neenaoff@unaffiliated/neenaoffline) |
| 09:28.31 | ScaredyCat | A&A are pretty dang good tbh |
| 09:28.45 | ScaredyCat | they're not you average numpties |
| 09:29.09 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 09:29.49 | neenaoffline | stand by time of GTA01 ? |
| 09:30.01 | josch | 17h |
| 09:31.40 | ScaredyCat | can somone else give it a go too... CM ? |
| 09:35.24 | neenaoffline | no one knows which date GTA02 is going to release(date) |
| 09:35.54 | flexd | does anyone know how many gta02 there will be made? |
| 09:36.15 | flexd | at first release i mean, compared to how many that wants one and all.. |
| 09:40.25 | XorA | neenaoffline: I had mine in standby and it died somewhere between 24-26 hours |
| 09:40.49 | neenaoffline | hmmm |
| 09:41.06 | neenaoffline | and GTA02 will live longer AFAIK, right ? |
| 09:43.02 | CM | ScaredyCat: I started a build 25 minutes ago, no problems |
| 09:43.22 | jeddy3 | neenaoffline, GTA02 has a larger capacity battery, yes |
| 09:43.47 | neenaoffline | but may not live longer ? |
| 09:43.51 | jeddy3 | neenaoffline, 1700mAh as opposed to 1200mAh if i recall correctly |
| 09:44.00 | jeddy3 | neenaoffline, yes it will :) |
| 09:44.04 | neenaoffline | yeah |
| 09:44.14 | *** join/#openmoko moo^ (n=sexycows@80.75.108.6) |
| 09:44.42 | jeddy3 | GTA01 should also get longer batterytime, as powersaving functions get more refined |
| 09:45.05 | neenaoffline | hmmm |
| 09:46.54 | jeddy3 | neenaoffline, but youll also have to consider WIFI chip, another GPS chip in GTA02, etc, which will make it harder to make a calculation on how long it will last as opposed to GTA01 |
| 09:47.21 | neenaoffline | I could switch them off right? |
| 09:47.29 | jeddy3 | neenaoffline, sure |
| 09:48.40 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 09:49.48 | jeddy3 | neenaoffline, but there is the reason for not just saying that GTA02 will have longer batterytime...it will however have a larger capacity battery :) |
| 09:50.09 | neenaoffline | :) |
| 09:51.04 | neenaoffline | and how many days would it take to deliver, when it is out ? |
| 09:52.32 | CM | neenaoffline: Depends on where you are located |
| 09:53.01 | CM | neenaoffline: The gta01 took about 10 days to get to Sweden :) |
| 09:53.13 | neenaoffline | India |
| 09:53.34 | neenaoffline | but if it ships before 25th dec, I could get it in the US |
| 09:54.06 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 09:54.13 | CM | Ah, ok. Too bad, my guess is that it will not be ready before january |
| 09:54.56 | neenaoffline | :( hmm |
| 09:55.17 | jeddy3 | my guess also :| |
| 09:58.34 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:59.13 | flexd | I'm an optimist, so im guessing it's done tomorrow! |
| 09:59.26 | CM | Hehe |
| 09:59.27 | flexd | Then we all celebrate and get incredibly drunk and happy trough the entire christmas month |
| 09:59.33 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-4285e5d6d9521631) |
| 10:01.36 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 10:01.41 | neenaoffline | heh |
| 10:02.58 | jeddy3 | :) |
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| 10:23.56 | Tm_T | erm |
| 10:24.15 | Tm_T | ScaredyCat: quite light usage of nazi word there |
| 10:24.28 | zash | ScaredyCat: BOFG? |
| 10:24.47 | ScaredyCat | no... |
| 10:24.54 | ScaredyCat | mr port blocker |
| 10:25.08 | zash | Bastard Operator From Germany? |
| 10:25.48 | Kliment_ | plenty of those |
| 10:26.04 | ScaredyCat | like I said, no, mr port blocker.. |
| 10:26.17 | ScaredyCat | but he says it's not :/ |
| 10:30.33 | flexd | 3, 2, 1, FIGHT! |
| 10:31.00 | ScaredyCat | !googlefight ScaredyCat XorA |
| 10:31.01 | cdbot2 | Google fights should be the format of 'random vs predictable' |
| 10:31.10 | ScaredyCat | !googlefight ScaredyCat vs XorA |
| 10:31.11 | cdbot2 | By results on Google: XorA beats ScaredyCat by 370,000 to 24,700! |
| 10:31.16 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 10:31.25 | flexd | !googlefight flexd vs ScaredyCat |
| 10:31.26 | cdbot2 | By results on Google: ScaredyCat beats flexd by 23,800 to 14,000! |
| 10:31.30 | flexd | :( |
| 10:32.53 | XorA | ScaredyCat: large update of openmoko just committed |
| 10:33.44 | *** join/#openmoko yashi (n=yashi@dns1.atmark-techno.com) |
| 10:34.35 | flexd | uhm |
| 10:34.47 | flexd | What trickery is needed to get the latest openmoko image in on qmemu? |
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| 10:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko horvatj73 (n=horvatj7@213.129.246.142) |
| 10:39.51 | CM | flexd: make qemu-local |
| 10:41.13 | *** join/#openmoko paguilar_ (n=paguilar@217.194.179.242) |
| 10:41.17 | flexd | ah, that's a tiny amount of trikery.. :o, awsome |
| 10:41.29 | borg_ | :) |
| 10:41.35 | *** join/#openmoko esben (n=esben@87.62.18.129) |
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| 10:42.00 | flexd | uhm, should i have X available when running this? Or does it just build the qemu stuff and not run it? (i'm on ssh atm) |
| 10:42.19 | CM | flexd: For me it doesn't build unless I have X |
| 10:42.26 | CM | Not in screen either |
| 10:42.26 | flexd | hmm k |
| 10:42.31 | flexd | let's hope with works with freenx then |
| 10:42.32 | CM | Think it's some SDL issue |
| 10:43.10 | flexd | it seems to be running it now :/ |
| 10:43.23 | borg_ | for me it builds in screen |
| 10:43.41 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|berlin (n=mickey@berligate.hmw-consulting.de) |
| 10:43.44 | balrog-kun | SDL support aalib :) |
| 10:43.51 | balrog-kun | *supports |
| 10:45.22 | borg_ | i always make my builds from work per ssh in a screen session of my pc |
| 10:45.25 | borg_ | never had problems |
| 10:45.31 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh_ (n=mikesh@r3au244.net.upc.cz) |
| 10:45.45 | flexd | hm |
| 10:46.04 | flexd | trying screen now then |
| 10:46.09 | CM | borg_: Me too, all the time |
| 10:46.12 | flexd | stupid nxserver broke again :8 |
| 10:46.23 | flexd | suddenly cant start the session now, stupid thing :/ |
| 10:48.17 | flexd | screen doesnt work either :/ |
| 10:48.33 | flexd | "U-boot failed to finish writing in nand write.jffs2 0x3100000 rootfx 0x10000 seconds, giving up" |
| 10:48.34 | balrog-kun | screen doesn't make any difference |
| 10:48.52 | CM | It only failed here on U-boot failed to finish writing in 120 seconds, giving up. |
| 10:49.34 | flexd | same thing happens if i try to compile it here on my ubuntu laptop too |
| 10:49.44 | flexd | what is *really* weird though |
| 10:49.45 | flexd | oh nevermind |
| 10:49.46 | flexd | damnit |
| 10:49.57 | flexd | I found out why freenx didnt work atleast >_> |
| 10:50.05 | flexd | i need a old old nxclient to be able to connect to it |
| 10:54.50 | flexd | even weirder, it still fails to do it when i do it trough nx |
| 10:56.41 | balrog-kun | why should nx make any difference? |
| 10:59.04 | flexd | because i can run X programs like a normal machine if im connected to nx? |
| 10:59.25 | flexd | Wasnt that the problem? that it cant open X windows? Or did i completely misread something here |
| 11:00.35 | balrog-kun | i think it doesn't care about X |
| 11:01.06 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@193.50.216.88) |
| 11:01.10 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 11:04.57 | CM | XorA: What's up with the buildhost.openmoko btw? Is there anyone responsible for it who can give it a kick? :) |
| 11:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:05.38 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@berligate.hmw-consulting.de) |
| 11:05.40 | XorA | CM: I shall give him a kick, what is missing? |
| 11:05.58 | CM | XorA: Just wondering about building the images |
| 11:06.06 | CM | Latest rootfs is from the 16th |
| 11:06.26 | XorA | CM: that'll just be the last time mickey kicked a build |
| 11:06.35 | CM | Ah, ok |
| 11:07.22 | CM | Doing a build now with your updated scr_revs, will be nice to try :) |
| 11:08.17 | XorA | its a nice improvment |
| 11:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 11:16.06 | flexd | uhm |
| 11:16.11 | flexd | i just got a 404 doing make qemu |
| 11:16.28 | flexd | from buildhost, something seems to be missing :/ |
| 11:16.50 | flexd | index.html ? :O |
| 11:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.103.2) |
| 11:26.33 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=Atul@202.63.103.2) |
| 11:27.57 | atul | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@203.36.98.81) |
| 11:32.58 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@mieuh.bluebugs.org) |
| 11:34.02 | ScaredyCat | this is just stupid.. |
| 11:34.09 | ScaredyCat | I get get there with a browser... |
| 11:34.17 | ScaredyCat | I just can't svn up ... |
| 11:34.21 | ScaredyCat | there's no proxy |
| 11:34.28 | ScaredyCat | the'res no blocking.. |
| 11:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 11:43.05 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh_ (n=mikesh@r3au244.net.upc.cz) |
| 11:46.15 | roh | ScaredyCat hm. i also have problems.. were working on it. |
| 11:46.22 | roh | builhost is unreliable atm |
| 11:46.34 | ScaredyCat | ahhh .. so not me then,,, |
| 11:47.24 | CM | Weird that I've completed two builds today without problems |
| 11:47.50 | ScaredyCat | maybe we need to clone the svn repo in europe and the us |
| 11:48.02 | *** join/#openmoko dottedma1 (n=dottedma@90.189.165.244) |
| 11:48.17 | CM | euromoko ftw ;) |
| 11:48.35 | raster | euroko |
| 11:48.44 | *** join/#openmoko tobmaster (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com) |
| 11:49.24 | ScaredyCat | i ws thinking more , iminurmokocloninurfiles |
| 11:51.21 | ScaredyCat | i'll get me coat... |
| 11:52.04 | CM | ScaredyCat: Heh, I had this discussion at Volvo 3 months ago: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2002222371121.gif |
| 11:52.42 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 11:53.35 | roh | ScaredyCat the openmoko-infrastructure is already in europe |
| 11:54.08 | roh | ScaredyCat we have some extra for taiwan. (latency) but the main stuff for public use is in europa |
| 11:54.26 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 11:54.33 | ScaredyCat | on the end of wet string? |
| 11:55.30 | ScaredyCat | CM: I'd leave... in January or somehting |
| 11:55.33 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 11:56.03 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe |
| 11:57.06 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=dottedma@unaffiliated/dottedmag) |
| 11:57.12 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9C1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:00.31 | *** join/#openmoko meldianen (n=chatzill@arl57-1-82-231-110-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:05.36 | mmazur | Anything interesting? |
| 12:09.16 | CM | mmazur: Just about oe building debs instead of ipkgs |
| 12:09.55 | CM | Wonder how that would work with openmoko. Not that I've had any problems with ipkg yet |
| 12:10.15 | zash | whats the diff? |
| 12:10.24 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic (i=tronic@dsl-tkubras1-ff30c300-158.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:10.45 | *** join/#openmoko simon__ (n=simon@dyn167240.wlan.jku.at) |
| 12:10.59 | CM | zash: ipk is some limited version of a deb, supposedly |
| 12:11.38 | mbuf | can anyone post (in pastebin.ca or related) the default ~/moko/setup-env and ~/moko/local/conf/site.conf contents? |
| 12:11.56 | mbuf | that is generated by a successful build |
| 12:13.02 | *** join/#openmoko meldianen (n=chatzill@arl57-1-82-231-110-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:13.43 | CM | mbuf: http://rafb.net/p/JMDq8I48.html |
| 12:14.18 | mbuf | CM, thanks! |
| 12:14.58 | mbuf | CM, developers have to update variables in these files for local/package overlay method |
| 12:15.43 | CM | Ok, I haven't touched them |
| 12:16.30 | *** join/#openmoko demaledetti (n=ste@83.225.150.17) |
| 12:16.51 | mbuf | CM, yes, just documenting it |
| 12:18.07 | CM | :) |
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| 13:03.38 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz (i=ynezz@ibawizard.net) |
| 13:06.17 | *** join/#openmoko hon (n=user@bas3-toronto02-1279464045.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 13:07.03 | hon | I read in the wiki that GTA02 is supposed to have accelerometers. Are digital compasses also considered to be included as well? |
| 13:07.09 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 13:07.24 | hon | Why not? GTA03 or never? |
| 13:07.48 | SpeedEvil | Also - the accelerometers basically only give you the way 'down' is. They cannot be used for other purposes practially due to thier (in)accuracy. |
| 13:08.14 | SpeedEvil | because it'd be an extra $8 or so on cost, $15 or so on price - for one. |
| 13:09.23 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@p5B00481F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:09.25 | hon | We haven't started yet, but are looking for a [future] device with both accelerometers and compasses. |
| 13:09.50 | hon | maybe if we can produce reasonable results you would consider including them |
| 13:09.54 | SpeedEvil | what do you want to do with it? |
| 13:10.12 | hon | New ways of user interaction, in a nutshell |
| 13:10.22 | SpeedEvil | and you do know that even the best accelerometers have an inaccuracy of 1cm/s^2 |
| 13:10.57 | hon | I think that will work out |
| 13:11.38 | hon | I guess we won't need that much accuracy, at least for the beginning |
| 13:11.55 | SpeedEvil | I wrote http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals which may be of use |
| 13:12.08 | hon | I am aware of that |
| 13:12.35 | Tronic | How fast are digital compasses? |
| 13:12.37 | SpeedEvil | It'd be so nice if current accels were a couple of orders of magnitude better. |
| 13:12.43 | SpeedEvil | Tronic: kilohertz |
| 13:12.44 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3463 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c): |
| 13:12.44 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer-sms.c: (moko_dialer_sms_finalize), |
| 13:12.44 | CIA-14 | (store_sms), (moko_dialer_sms_send): |
| 13:12.44 | CIA-14 | Fix compiler warnings, check the source exists before trying to |
| 13:12.44 | CIA-14 | destroy it on finalize |
| 13:13.07 | Tronic | SpeedEvil: Woah. Any precise at that rate? |
| 13:13.21 | SpeedEvil | Tronic: basically as precise as normal as I understand it |
| 13:13.24 | rangen | SpeedEvil: one typo "aceleration" (cant bother to login) |
| 13:13.38 | SpeedEvil | meh |
| 13:13.46 | SpeedEvil | then I can't be bothered either. |
| 13:14.20 | hon | MEMS accels are pretty young. They will improve in time if there is any real demand. |
| 13:14.33 | SpeedEvil | They're not that young - 15 years? |
| 13:15.03 | SpeedEvil | and oddly - they have only improved by a factor of two or so in terms of noise since the ADXL202 - which were amongst the first |
| 13:15.13 | SpeedEvil | noise/fundamental sensitivity |
| 13:16.21 | rangen | would it be possible to build small gyroscope in embedded device? |
| 13:16.28 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:16.37 | SpeedEvil | you get those - $20-$30 per axis |
| 13:17.01 | SpeedEvil | maybe $10-$15 in bulk |
| 13:17.15 | rangen | would those be accurate as they are in ship navigation systems etc? |
| 13:17.35 | SpeedEvil | no - they drift at degree/minute worst case typically |
| 13:17.59 | SpeedEvil | If you can live with a large unit, that's not MEMS, you can get better accuracy. |
| 13:18.07 | *** join/#openmoko Ganneff (i=joerg@freenode/staff/debian.joerg) |
| 13:19.47 | CM | SpeedEvil: I bothered, fixed some spelling errors :) |
| 13:19.57 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 13:20.20 | CM | Thanks for the page too, I didn't know that much about accelerometers before |
| 13:20.43 | SpeedEvil | It's probably got some bugs - but it's a basic overview |
| 13:20.56 | CM | Good enough for me :) |
| 13:21.17 | *** join/#openmoko paguilar (n=paguilar@217.194.179.242) |
| 13:21.46 | SpeedEvil | sparkfun.com has guros and compass chips with datasheets |
| 13:21.49 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 13:21.50 | SpeedEvil | gyros |
| 13:22.36 | rangen | here is one interesting use case for accelerometer: http://research.nokia.com/research/projects/mara/index.html |
| 13:22.57 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-139-168-205-186.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 13:24.16 | SpeedEvil | fun |
| 13:24.21 | SpeedEvil | there are all sorts |
| 13:25.05 | hon | How about 18mg resolution? |
| 13:25.14 | SpeedEvil | hon: ? |
| 13:25.18 | *** join/#openmoko keitsi (n=keitsi@a91-153-150-57.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:25.30 | hon | 0.18 m/s^ |
| 13:25.31 | SpeedEvil | you mean the accelerometers thought to be in the neo2A? |
| 13:25.41 | hon | no, another one |
| 13:25.45 | SpeedEvil | yes - that's not especially great |
| 13:25.57 | hon | http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/13951.pdf |
| 13:26.12 | SpeedEvil | 1mg is typical for most other aceclerometers over an integration time of 1s or so |
| 13:26.23 | CM | I'll be happy just to shake my GTA02 and get a shuffeled playlist in the mediaplayer ;) |
| 13:27.21 | hon | Even with the unaccurate accelerometers I can have today, there are plenty things I can do ... |
| 13:27.26 | SpeedEvil | indeed. |
| 13:27.50 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=dottedma@micronet.stf.ru) |
| 13:27.54 | SpeedEvil | hon: look up the one mentioned on the technical:accel page - the AD part that's used on the wii for example of a more accurate one |
| 13:28.49 | hon | ADXL330? Isn't it less accurate than the ST one? |
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| 13:31.55 | hon | imagine pointing a direction with your device (accel + compass), doing things by specially moving your device (accel), ... |
| 13:32.34 | CM | Like a wii-mote :) |
| 13:32.44 | hon | wiimote has a sensor bar for that |
| 13:32.48 | CM | (but without the ir, I know) |
| 13:33.10 | hon | imagine pointing a direction and asking google maps to produce a list of shops in that direction |
| 13:34.13 | SpeedEvil | hon: no - 330uG/sqrt(hz) noise |
| 13:34.52 | SpeedEvil | so 1Hz gets you .33mg, 10Hz 1mg, ... |
| 13:36.41 | cjb_ie | google maps? openstreetmap for teh win - then you can add any shops it's missing :) |
| 13:37.13 | cjb_ie | (which admittedly for many areas at the moment will be... all of them :) |
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| 13:40.00 | *** part/#openmoko willie- (n=willie@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 13:40.33 | hon | SpeedEvil: about including a compass, do you think 1) it won't happen for GTA02, 2) not even GTA03, 3) can be considered if there is a reasonable application for it ? |
| 13:41.25 | SpeedEvil | It absolutely won't happen for 02 |
| 13:41.44 | hon | (we might be able to produce and publish results in ~2 months) |
| 13:41.50 | SpeedEvil | as to 03 - a very powerful case would have to be made for something that boosts the price by $15 or so |
| 13:42.23 | SpeedEvil | maybe as little as $10 - but it's still not really trivial. |
| 13:42.53 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 13:43.25 | hon | btw, does the GPS module produce any useful direction information? |
| 13:43.33 | hon | at least for outdoors |
| 13:43.35 | SpeedEvil | not when you're not mobing |
| 13:43.44 | SpeedEvil | it produces heading but not pointing info |
| 13:44.04 | SpeedEvil | Wave. |
| 13:44.08 | hon | thanks |
| 13:44.33 | hon | I hope someday it is included. |
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| 13:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko apaulsen (n=apaulsen@64.122.73.112) |
| 13:58.47 | ScaredyCat | mneh! |
| 13:58.47 | CM | mwester: http://blog.automated.it/2007/11/21/here-i-am-right-here/ |
| 13:59.24 | CM | mwester: Btw, I just got a bugreport here at Volvo from "mwester" |
| 13:59.46 | mwester | What?! Someone has stolen my identity?! :o |
| 13:59.48 | CM | Was Maria Westerlind or something, but still mwester@volvocars.com ;) |
| 14:00.35 | mwester | I'll have to send an injunction to Maria, I think. :( |
| 14:00.37 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 14:00.38 | mwester | :P :D |
| 14:00.48 | CM | Hehe |
| 14:01.20 | *** join/#openmoko cclien (n=cclien@140.128.98.86) |
| 14:01.51 | mwester | ScaredyCat: re: your blog -- I too drive many hours just to avoid being a slave to the airline schedules, and the wife also worries that I'll crash and burn. An app to check in with position info is perfect for the Neo. |
| 14:02.25 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:02.44 | CM | mwester: I've been doing that too, but for drivning to my gf. Solved by moving there next week ;) |
| 14:02.45 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 14:02.56 | cjb_ie | even handier for wives who doubt their husbands' fidelity! |
| 14:03.01 | ScaredyCat | mwester: so I'd have 1 user at least then ;) |
| 14:03.54 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:04.13 | mwester | Yep. There's an amazing amount of emptiness between cities here in the midwest USA. Even more as you go westward... |
| 14:04.38 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:06.13 | ScaredyCat | between your ears too... |
| 14:06.16 | ScaredyCat | arf arf |
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| 14:27.35 | esben | mickey|berlin: what are the status and plan for meta-toolchain-openmoko ? |
| 14:28.06 | mickey|berlin | esben: toolchain will probably appear within the next 10 days on downloads. together with some first start document |
| 14:28.13 | esben | Shouldn't we be distributing prebuilt toolchains for OpenMoko application developers? |
| 14:28.43 | esben | mickey|berlin: will there be a cygwin toolchain as well? ;-) |
| 14:28.51 | mickey|berlin | no. x86 only is the first step |
| 14:30.06 | esben | I am one recipe away from having a cygwin toolchain built for ppc603e... |
| 14:30.48 | ScaredyCat | are you saying that you're 'one recipe short of a toolchain'? ;) |
| 14:31.25 | esben | yep, I have just gotten gcc-cross-sdk to complete |
| 14:31.37 | esben | only missing the gcc_4.2.2.bb |
| 14:32.39 | apaulsen | XorA: glamo-report-vram-size-to-userspace.patch? |
| 14:32.41 | esben | sorry, bad counting. |
| 14:32.58 | XorA | apaulsen: shit I forgot to push it didnt I |
| 14:33.00 | esben | I am in do_populate_sdk of meta-toolchain :-) |
| 14:33.03 | *** join/#openmoko something_here (n=blah@CPE-121-209-49-88.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 14:33.29 | apaulsen | XorA: looks like it |
| 14:33.47 | XorA | apaulsen: on its way |
| 14:34.32 | XorA | apaulsen: pushed, thanks for the heads up |
| 14:34.42 | esben | mickey|berlin: do you mean qemu toolchain only, or host=linux-x86 target=neo1973 only? |
| 14:35.09 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:35.32 | mickey|berlin | esben: host=linux-x86 target=neo1973 first step. vmware image with qemu installed and everything pre-setup and configured later this year |
| 14:36.00 | esben | mickey|berlin: have you considered virtualbox instead of vmware? |
| 14:36.32 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@berligate.hmw-consulting.de) |
| 14:36.53 | esben | it is just as high quality as vmware and completely free (as in beer) and have a slightly-stripped free (as in freedom) version. |
| 14:36.59 | buz | i would vote for virtualbox, too |
| 14:37.21 | esben | I am running virtualbox (host=linux virtual=winxp) |
| 14:37.37 | esben | it is really nice stuff, got my laptop freed of win$$ |
| 14:37.44 | mickey|berlin | esben: vmware has been decided by upper layers. |
| 14:37.50 | mickey|berlin | vmware player is also free |
| 14:37.57 | buz | but a pain to install |
| 14:38.11 | esben | mickey|berlin: ok, vmware player as target. |
| 14:38.19 | buz | i think you can convert vmdk to vdi tho |
| 14:39.04 | something_here | This project is pretty cool... |
| 14:39.19 | something_here | Is the source java based? |
| 14:39.44 | esben | if you are stuck on a windows host, and don't have access to excessive memory and just want to develop simple applictaions, I am quite sure a lot of people would prefer a cygwin toolchain, and even better pre-integrated with eclipse. |
| 14:40.24 | esben | I am not using either, but there are a lot of people like that. |
| 14:43.28 | apaulsen | XorA: how about the two glamo patches for xserver-kdrive? |
| 14:44.08 | XorA | apaulsen: bollox Im having a bad day, I thought I had done them |
| 14:46.24 | XorA | apaulsen: should be them all pused now sorry |
| 14:47.33 | XorA | wierder and wierder, MacOSX and console pr0n |
| 14:49.10 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (i=laforge@sunbeam.ipv6.gnumonks.org) |
| 14:49.40 | apaulsen | XorA: looks like it's building ok now |
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| 14:56.27 | zash | hm, qemu doesnt like me anymore |
| 14:56.31 | zash | http://pic.zash.se/Screenshot-QEMU.png |
| 14:57.30 | CM | buz: Why is vmware a pain to install? (I admit that i've only ever installed vmware-server) |
| 14:57.46 | buz | because you have to deal with stupid binary only code |
| 14:57.50 | *** join/#openmoko BenO (n=BenO@dhcp203-223.sers.ox.ac.uk) |
| 14:58.14 | buz | tho these days i think there is an ubuntu package at least |
| 14:58.19 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 14:58.43 | CM | zash: I usually get that too before the console starts scrolling by |
| 14:59.09 | CM | buz: In gentoo "emerge vmware-server" works :) |
| 14:59.33 | CM | Should try virtualbox though |
| 14:59.41 | buz | very neat |
| 14:59.47 | buz | unless you need usb emulation |
| 14:59.53 | buz | in which case i'd stick with vmware |
| 14:59.58 | CM | Ah, ok |
| 15:00.18 | buz | tho supposedly these days it does work with virtualbox |
| 15:00.19 | no_mind | buz, comercial version of vbox provides usb |
| 15:00.35 | buz | no_mind: yeah i remembered something like that |
| 15:00.45 | buz | but i dont use usb in vbox so i dont care one bit |
| 15:00.59 | no_mind | wel i will agree vbox is neet |
| 15:01.07 | no_mind | i wish vbox provided arm emulation |
| 15:01.12 | buz | seamless windows would be very neat, if it actually worked on my hardware :) |
| 15:01.24 | buz | (it seems to limited to something around 1600x1200) |
| 15:01.28 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) |
| 15:01.52 | buz | no_mind: whats wrong with qemu-arm? |
| 15:01.58 | no_mind | buz, it works on my hardware |
| 15:02.08 | buz | i think it depends on the resolution of your desktop |
| 15:02.15 | buz | if i lower mine to 1280x800 it works here, too |
| 15:02.19 | no_mind | buz, i am unable to install debain-arm eabi port in qemu-arm |
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| 15:11.49 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3464 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:11.49 | CIA-14 | * configure.ac: |
| 15:11.49 | CIA-14 | * Makefile.am: |
| 15:11.49 | CIA-14 | Remove libhito |
| 15:11.49 | CIA-14 | * src/sms.h: |
| 15:11.50 | CIA-14 | * src/sms-contacts.[ch]: |
| 15:11.52 | CIA-14 | Replace libhito code with ebook code, implement showing of contact |
| 15:12.15 | ScaredyCat | roh: is that server fixed yet? |
| 15:13.04 | CM | ScaredyCat: I do? Didn't know.. :P |
| 15:13.34 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:14.07 | CM | ScaredyCat: Was a question to 15:37 <buz> but a pain to install |
| 15:14.14 | ScaredyCat | ahhh.... |
| 15:14.20 | ScaredyCat | that'll teach me to skim |
| 15:14.21 | CM | I think it works like a charm |
| 15:14.21 | buz | and the answer was "because you have to deal with stupid binary only code" |
| 15:14.26 | nano- | Because it's made of dead kittens? |
| 15:14.28 | CM | :D |
| 15:14.29 | buz | yeah once you got it running, it works |
| 15:14.34 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 15:14.37 | buz | but why deal with it, if theres a completely opensource equivalent |
| 15:15.12 | ScaredyCat | never had issues here.... vmware is a good choice imho, because it'll work under linux, doze, osx |
| 15:15.12 | CM | I tried to run minix3 in it.. |
| 15:15.15 | buz | this way, my kernel is not tainted |
| 15:15.19 | anders_ | nano-: Do you have a phone running openmoko at the office? |
| 15:15.24 | buz | ScaredyCat: so does virtualbox |
| 15:15.37 | ScaredyCat | sucks |
| 15:15.45 | buz | ? |
| 15:15.45 | CM | Didn't start.. |
| 15:16.11 | CM | And NetBSD kernel paniced my whole comp 3 times, so I gave up on that too |
| 15:16.58 | buz | if i can run XP and linux 2.6, the vm is good enough for me |
| 15:17.17 | CM | Same here |
| 15:18.05 | buz | nooow, if someone actually got a vm with 3d acceleration working |
| 15:18.06 | CM | cpu scaling messed up the time for the guest though, unless you tweak the config files a bit |
| 15:18.08 | ScaredyCat | that's what vmware server is for |
| 15:18.51 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 15:19.20 | nano- | anders_: yes |
| 15:19.57 | anders_ | nano-: Cool, maybe we could install x2r on it today? |
| 15:20.02 | nano- | anders_: yeah |
| 15:26.23 | *** join/#openmoko hexa__ (n=hexa@67.70.246.100) |
| 15:27.52 | esben | Damnit! ipkg is broken under cygwin :-( |
| 15:28.05 | esben | at least then I know what to look at tomorrow... |
| 15:28.23 | Stephmw | aha! so there *is* a cygwin user :) |
| 15:28.37 | esben | Stephmw: no, not really |
| 15:29.03 | esben | I am very much a Linux user, but I have a customer that insists on getting a proper cygwin toolchain delivered. |
| 15:29.41 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.174.56) |
| 15:29.50 | esben | and as I have "tricked" them into using OE for two of their products, I simply have to get cygwin support for meta-toolchain working :-) |
| 15:30.01 | anrp | ... |
| 15:30.21 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host159-214-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:30.44 | esben | no, I actually had never even really looked at OE, I just had an idea of what it was and could be used for. |
| 15:31.28 | esben | so I convinced them to spend 1 day trying to see how far OE could get us, and the next morning I had their target booting an OE image. |
| 15:31.51 | CM | esben: Cool :) |
| 15:31.55 | esben | cygwin then turned up to be the cotcha'... |
| 15:32.34 | anrp | well the other thing you might investigate is installing microsoft's Services for UNIX (SfU) |
| 15:32.47 | anrp | they bought it (from interix?), it provides a good posix subsystem |
| 15:32.52 | esben | But I believe that OpenMoko can benefit from a cygwin stand-alone toolchain, so I want to extend my work for this customer to building an OpenMoko cygwin toolchain. |
| 15:32.53 | anrp | as opposed to the lacking one in the default build |
| 15:33.12 | anrp | its free (beer-wise) |
| 15:33.18 | SpeedEvil | OM cygwin. |
| 15:33.23 | SpeedEvil | Oh the speed! |
| 15:33.31 | esben | SpeedEvil: exactly! |
| 15:33.33 | anrp | windows is way slow at process creation |
| 15:33.39 | anrp | so the mapping of concepts isnt that fast |
| 15:34.05 | anrp | not much to do there .. |
| 15:34.12 | esben | if your computer is to fast that you never have time to fetch coffe.... then start building with cygwin! |
| 15:35.33 | esben | anyway, if you want to play with a simple application for OpenMoko, then cygwin slowness or not, it could be cool to be able to compile on windows (for those with such tendencies that is) |
| 15:35.40 | Stephmw | esben: the only slowdown I've experienced with cygwin/linux on the same build system was the first used file copies and the 2nd used symlinking |
| 15:36.58 | esben | and if someone would ever glue it together with Eclipse it should be possible to attract more people to develop OpenMoko applications |
| 15:37.20 | anrp | mmm, lots of layers |
| 15:37.36 | zash | hm, is qemu suposed to use 90-95% cpu and do nothing? |
| 15:37.51 | anrp | depends on if its emulating an infinite loop or not :p |
| 15:38.16 | zash | i tried to add a contact, and wrote a 'k' in the name field |
| 15:38.25 | zash | then i pressed backspace |
| 15:38.30 | zash | and nothing happend |
| 15:39.04 | anrp | since k is in openmoko, the letter is dear to the program's heart, and it refused to delete it |
| 15:39.11 | anrp | seems pretty simple ;) |
| 15:39.33 | magumbade | question: how much free space do I need on my hdd in order to compile the entire openmoko project? |
| 15:39.38 | anrp | but honestly, i don't know, you could try ssh'ing in and using gdb |
| 15:39.40 | anrp | or some such |
| 15:40.14 | magumbade | 5.9 GB seems to be not enough |
| 15:41.33 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:44.45 | ScaredyCat | you need more than that |
| 15:44.52 | ScaredyCat | 12gb at peak |
| 15:46.42 | SpeedEvil | magumbade: 12G or more |
| 15:49.45 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053153207.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAAC48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:53.59 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3465 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-contacts.c): |
| 15:53.59 | CIA-14 | * src/sms-contacts.c: (nophoto_filter_func), |
| 15:53.59 | CIA-14 | (sms_contacts_page_new): |
| 15:53.59 | CIA-14 | Use a filter modify func to set contacts with no photo to the |
| 15:53.59 | CIA-14 | stock_person icon |
| 15:54.56 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-137-198.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:55.17 | *** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
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| 15:59.03 | CIA-14 | 03thomas * r3466 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 15:59.03 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/Makefile.am: |
| 15:59.03 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-dialer.c: (on_incoming_call), |
| 15:59.04 | CIA-14 | (on_pin_requested), (moko_dialer_init): |
| 15:59.04 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-pin.c: |
| 15:59.04 | CIA-14 | * src/phone-kit/moko-pin.h: |
| 15:59.06 | CIA-14 | Add new code to request PIN from user |
| 15:59.41 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 16:01.33 | *** join/#openmoko shenki_logging (n=joel@2001:4830:2446:fe40:0:0:0:1) |
| 16:02.25 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@140.77.128.140) |
| 16:05.12 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3467 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-contacts.c): |
| 16:05.12 | CIA-14 | * src/sms-contacts.c: (contacts_iter_compare_func), |
| 16:05.12 | CIA-14 | (sms_contacts_page_new): |
| 16:05.12 | CIA-14 | Add a sort function for the contacts |
| 16:07.18 | *** join/#openmoko simon__ (n=simon@dyn167240.wlan.jku.at) |
| 16:08.59 | *** part/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125) |
| 16:09.18 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 16:09.20 | hrw | svn: PROPFIND of '/!svn/bc/3467/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu': Could not read status line: connection was closed by server. (http://svn.openmoko.org) |
| 16:09.24 | hrw | argh |
| 16:10.00 | ScaredyCat | basically you just ave to keep trying |
| 16:10.04 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k559.webspeed.dk) |
| 16:10.10 | hrw | ScaredyCat: yes, I know |
| 16:10.32 | ScaredyCat | it's only just worked for my and I've been trying all day :/ |
| 16:10.48 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FFCF8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:12.44 | hrw | uf. this time it goes |
| 16:13.11 | anrp | best way to work around a DoS: try harder |
| 16:13.14 | anrp | ...er, wait |
| 16:13.17 | *** join/#openmoko d1 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 16:15.52 | *** join/#openmoko shred (n=shred@p5491ACE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:15.59 | shred | hi |
| 16:16.11 | shred | which gstreamer codecs are installer by default? |
| 16:17.37 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
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| 16:45.05 | sbeh | how hard would it be, to implement the ability to record phone-calls? |
| 16:46.29 | *** join/#openmoko d3 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 16:49.05 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3468 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c src/sms.h): |
| 16:49.05 | CIA-14 | * src/sms-notes.c: (get_selected_contact), (page_hidden), |
| 16:49.05 | CIA-14 | (sms_notes_data_func), (sms_notes_page_new): |
| 16:49.05 | CIA-14 | * src/sms.h: |
| 16:49.05 | CIA-14 | Add some code to show avatars/change justification depending on whether |
| 16:49.07 | CIA-14 | a message was sent or received (unfinished) |
| 16:54.04 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^ (n=user@r201-221-33-207.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 16:55.00 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3469 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/Makefile.am): |
| 16:55.00 | CIA-14 | * src/Makefile.am: |
| 16:55.00 | CIA-14 | Remove spurious libhito bits |
| 16:57.11 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548AC844.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko thomas (n=thomas@ool-4b7fb52a.static.optonline.net) |
| 17:00.52 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3470 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (ChangeLog src/sms-notes.c): |
| 17:00.52 | CIA-14 | * src/sms-notes.c: (sms_notes_page_new): |
| 17:00.52 | CIA-14 | Check if no-photo icon is NULL before reffing it |
| 17:06.43 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
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| 18:00.11 | CM | abraxa_: Hi there. Echoing a question since no one answered before: |
| 18:00.15 | CM | 17:16 <shred> which gstreamer codecs are installer by default? |
| 18:01.30 | abraxa_ | Ah thanks for highlighting me ;) |
| 18:02.04 | borg_ | where are the packages that are included in the image defined anyway? |
| 18:02.11 | CM | Hehe... I rarely have the answers, but I know who to ask ;) |
| 18:02.15 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@host132.natpool.mwn.de) |
| 18:02.21 | borg_ | it isnt defined in the openmoko-devel-image.bb |
| 18:02.41 | CM | borg_: I think some are, and the rest gets pulled in by dependencies |
| 18:02.48 | borg_ | ah ok |
| 18:02.51 | pH5 | borg_: task-openmoko.bb, and work from there |
| 18:03.06 | pH5 | CM: guessing correctly |
| 18:03.07 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 18:03.08 | abraxa_ | shred: By default you have mp3/vorbis and ffmpeg - however vorbis support is non-functional at this stage and gstreamer video performance is abysmal |
| 18:03.19 | abraxa_ | shred: So right now, gstreamer is good for mp3 only |
| 18:03.45 | *** part/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 18:03.48 | abraxa_ | borg_: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/rootfs/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ is a good place to look at ;) |
| 18:04.31 | josch | abraxa_, no vorbis?? |
| 18:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.96.206) |
| 18:05.10 | abraxa_ | josch: You can try it and see that it *does* decode and make sound but performance needs to be tweaked badly |
| 18:05.37 | josch | :-( |
| 18:10.09 | abraxa_ | josch: Well, you can always use ogg123 for now :) |
| 18:10.26 | josch | wohoo! :-D |
| 18:12.51 | *** join/#openmoko osmosis (n=steven@63.139.86.3) |
| 18:14.54 | borg_ | the neo uses arm5, right? |
| 18:15.22 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qe279.q.pppool.de) |
| 18:16.33 | abraxa_ | ARM4vT if I understand correctly (The SoC is of the ARM920T family) |
| 18:16.37 | josch | armv4t |
| 18:16.42 | borg_ | or even arm4 |
| 18:16.44 | borg_ | ok |
| 18:17.05 | borg_ | abraxa_: someone sayed to my that gstreamer uses a lot of g_object_ref() and g_object_unref() |
| 18:17.25 | borg_ | which is badly implemented in glib for arm <=5 |
| 18:17.29 | borg_ | http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/atomic-rt.html |
| 18:17.47 | borg_ | perhaps there is a performance boost possible |
| 18:17.56 | abraxa_ | Ah, Lennart's atomic ops battle :) |
| 18:18.06 | borg_ | or is this fud? :) |
| 18:18.34 | abraxa_ | I haven't looked into the atomic ops issue myself so I can't really comment |
| 18:18.59 | abraxa_ | All I know is that mp3 playback doesn't incur *too* much overhead so I'm sure gstreamer can be made work |
| 18:19.20 | borg_ | there is a lot of glib involved in nearly every application of the neo |
| 18:19.26 | borg_ | so perhaps it is worth a try |
| 18:19.52 | abraxa_ | What is? |
| 18:20.07 | borg_ | to implement a arm4 specific version of this function |
| 18:21.27 | *** join/#openmoko _diego_ (n=diego@host-84-223-115-84.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:25.45 | CIA-14 | 03chris * r3471 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 18:25.45 | CIA-14 | * src/sms-contacts.c: (sms_contacts_load_photo), |
| 18:25.45 | CIA-14 | (clear_numbers_cb), (clear_numbers), (contacts_store), |
| 18:25.45 | CIA-14 | (contacts_changed_cb), (contacts_removed_cb), |
| 18:25.45 | CIA-14 | (sms_contacts_page_new): |
| 18:25.47 | CIA-14 | Maintain a number->contact uid hash table |
| 18:25.49 | CIA-14 | * src/sms-contacts.h: |
| 18:31.38 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
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| 18:42.00 | *** part/#openmoko sandsmark (i=sandsmar@cassarossa.samfundet.no) |
| 18:45.24 | slomo | abraxa_, borg_: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=498810 you should probably get this into your glib if there happens to be a patch at some point :) |
| 18:48.55 | abraxa_ | Thanks, though I'm not sure whether gstreamer and/or pulseaudio benefit from improved atomic op handling in glib alone - and whether gstreamer even makes uses of them in the first place |
| 18:49.01 | abraxa_ | makes use* |
| 18:51.31 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@91.89.138.232) |
| 18:58.39 | blinx | moin PBeck |
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| 19:23.33 | denis^da | Has someone resetted the mailing list ? I changed my email adress last week and now I get the mails to my old email address (untill yesterday everything worked fine) |
| 19:24.13 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|ICE1093 (n=mickeyl@gprs-pool-1-008.eplus-online.de) |
| 19:28.37 | *** join/#openmoko Moniker42 (n=sean@87-194-119-253.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:28.46 | Moniker42 | hey, will the gta02 support 3g in the uk? |
| 19:29.06 | Moniker42 | i'm not sure if that's equivalent to EDGE in the us, which the neo site says it will not support |
| 19:29.10 | mickey|ICE1093 | no |
| 19:29.40 | edistar | EDGE is also EDGE in the uk |
| 19:29.46 | edistar | also called egprs |
| 19:30.06 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-157-1-110-233.w90-20.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:32.13 | CM | mickey|ICE1093: http://blog.0x63.nu/2007/11/openmoko-xmms2-client.html |
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| 19:35.32 | edistar | cool |
| 19:35.52 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54952DA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:37.27 | mickey|ICE1093 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:39.23 | borg_ | cool |
| 19:39.43 | mjr | Moniker42, Neo doesn't do 3g, period |
| 19:39.59 | tuukkah | neither 2.5g |
| 19:40.00 | Moniker42 | mjr, any particular reason? |
| 19:40.25 | Moniker42 | tuukkah, website claims to support 2.5G.... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 19:41.19 | mjr | Moniker42, any of availability, money, market area etc. |
| 19:41.57 | mjr | G's are marketing bullshit; anyway, that 2.5G means GPRS |
| 19:42.27 | CM | mickey|ICE1093: The video is very nice. (For those that don't have flash: http://people.0x63.nu/~andersg/mov00117.3gp ) |
| 19:43.04 | Moniker42 | mjr, ah it's browsing anywhere i was interested in anywhere - so 2.5g covers browsing wherever in the uk then? :) |
| 19:43.20 | borg_ | Moniker42: yes |
| 19:43.24 | mjr | gprs does |
| 19:43.33 | tuukkah | oops, i remembered gprs was 2.25g %-) sorry |
| 19:44.18 | Moniker42 | hmm... not as good as 2.3g |
| 19:44.27 | Moniker42 | or 2.4g, for that matter. |
| 19:44.48 | mjr | fuck the fractional Gs especially |
| 19:44.55 | roh | to be exact... everything behind the . including the dot in 3.5g 2.5g .. etc is not defined, just marketing speak |
| 19:45.03 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 19:45.08 | Moniker42 | isn't anyone going to kick CM for pinging dozens of people? |
| 19:45.12 | roh | its only 2g or 3g + featureset |
| 19:45.23 | Moniker42 | i'm not seeing any flood quit... |
| 19:45.32 | CM | Moniker42: I am? |
| 19:46.10 | Moniker42 | CM, your earlier post "this video is very nice..." and then you pinged about forty people |
| 19:46.31 | tuukkah | anyway, gprs isn't superfast |
| 19:46.35 | Moniker42 | oooh sorry CM |
| 19:46.38 | borg_ | not me |
| 19:46.52 | mjr | it's slow, but workable for many things still |
| 19:47.02 | Moniker42 | CM, i feel a tad idiotic now..... tab-complete on xchat >.< |
| 19:47.03 | balrog-kun | i got no ping from CM |
| 19:47.09 | balrog-kun | i feel left out :( |
| 19:47.19 | CM | Moniker42: Heh, don't worry about it. :) |
| 19:47.31 | Moniker42 | the formatting in xchat looked just like it was the rest of your message |
| 19:47.39 | Moniker42 | a coincidentally unfortunate linebreak... |
| 19:48.04 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:48.05 | edistar | Moniker42: sleep well ;) |
| 19:48.10 | CM | Hehe |
| 19:48.23 | CM | ~fish Moniker42 |
| 19:48.24 | apt | ACTION slaps Moniker42 around with a large trout |
| 19:48.31 | CM | Moniker42: Now we're even.. ;) |
| 19:48.51 | Moniker42 | hmm... i feel like having some fish & chips before bed now |
| 19:49.16 | CM | ~chips Moniker42 |
| 19:49.17 | Moniker42 | thankfully i live in scotland, so that particular artery-clogging convenience is only a few hundred feet away |
| 19:49.25 | CM | Ahh.. To bad that didn't work :) |
| 19:49.44 | abraxa_ | ~kick CM |
| 19:49.45 | apt | ACTION kicks CM |
| 19:49.48 | abraxa_ | :D |
| 19:49.57 | CM | :P |
| 19:49.57 | edistar | friendly ;) |
| 19:50.21 | CM | apt's larts are really funny, at least some |
| 19:50.27 | CM | ~curse abraxa_ |
| 19:50.28 | apt | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, abraxa_ ! |
| 19:50.32 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|ICE1093 (n=mickeyl@gprs-pool-1-008.eplus-online.de) |
| 19:50.36 | abraxa_ | Dude |
| 19:50.40 | CM | Hehe |
| 19:50.51 | edistar | i like that one ;) |
| 19:50.55 | abraxa_ | That's one serious insult =( |
| 19:51.15 | abraxa_ | Too bad you already have to code in APT or else I'd wish that on you |
| 19:51.37 | CM | Hehe, APL, and no I won't do that in my new job |
| 19:51.40 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-65-100.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:51.49 | abraxa_ | Argh... see what apt does to my brain |
| 19:52.00 | abraxa_ | Makes me mix up words already |
| 19:52.03 | edistar | APL? |
| 19:52.11 | CM | edistar: http://www.acc.umu.se/~cm/apl2.png |
| 19:52.22 | CM | It's an old language sometimes still used at mainfraims |
| 19:52.29 | CM | frames.. |
| 19:52.33 | edistar | ah, ok, thx |
| 19:52.57 | SpeedEvil | Which is perhaps one of the most write-only languages ever. |
| 19:53.02 | CM | It's not exactly easy to read.. Not even using ascii, but having it's own alphabet |
| 19:53.06 | *** join/#openmoko FuL|OUT (n=fn@81.84.174.43) |
| 19:53.08 | SpeedEvil | It even has its own charset |
| 19:53.12 | CoreDump | and I thought perl looks bad... |
| 19:53.15 | edistar | seriously you program in that language? |
| 19:53.15 | CM | SpeedEvil: Yes, at least that's ever been used for real |
| 19:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko jroman (n=jroman@239.Red-81-33-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:53.31 | CM | edistar: Not all the time, but yes I've had to fix bugs in that |
| 19:53.40 | edistar | CM: good luck then |
| 19:53.47 | cjb_ie | yeah, i saw a program to generate a list of primes... which was like 6 characters or something ridiculous like that |
| 19:54.03 | CM | Yeah, it can be really compact |
| 19:54.21 | edistar | how long do you need to learn that? |
| 19:54.39 | CM | I'm trying hard not to learn.. |
| 19:54.42 | edistar | heh |
| 19:54.57 | CM | My boss have been programming in it for 30 years |
| 19:55.20 | edistar | CM: at least he has experience then :) |
| 19:55.21 | *** join/#openmoko twistx_ (n=no@64.30.190.171) |
| 19:55.31 | CM | He thinks in that code |
| 19:55.38 | edistar | I can imagine |
| 19:55.48 | CM | Can't get him to even follow a simple python program |
| 19:56.20 | CM | ~lart APL |
| 19:56.20 | apt | drops a humongous exploding nuke on APL |
| 19:56.48 | tuukkah | python must be all too verbose for him :-) |
| 19:57.13 | tuukkah | and oo just a way to make the programs even longer |
| 19:57.27 | edistar | oo does make programs longer.. |
| 19:57.53 | tuukkah | edistar, depends, as it makes the identifiers shorter :-) |
| 19:58.12 | edistar | tuukkah: small programs, small games etc |
| 19:58.51 | tuukkah | definitely, at least if you use too many classes etc. and don't keep it appropriately simple |
| 19:59.22 | tuukkah | it's good that python isn't oo-only |
| 19:59.32 | edistar | yep :) |
| 19:59.50 | edistar | but we learned python for 2 years at school without once talking about oo |
| 20:00.04 | edistar | when I used classes in the project the teacher didn't understand.. |
| 20:00.09 | ewon | lol |
| 20:00.16 | CM | hehe |
| 20:00.49 | CM | edistar: Actually there are an object oriented version of APL, but that's a real horror :D |
| 20:01.06 | edistar | brr.. |
| 20:01.20 | tuukkah | edistar, hmm, was that some old-school python? |
| 20:01.33 | edistar | tuukkah: no, we used python 2.3 I think |
| 20:01.44 | *** join/#openmoko dinamich (n=damjan@ub141-7.static.adsl.volja.net) |
| 20:01.51 | edistar | tuukkah: I think he tried to relive basic though.. in python |
| 20:02.55 | edistar | tuukkah: but I didn't listen to him :) had to debug for him ;) |
| 20:02.58 | tuukkah | so what did you use instead of objects? just tuples? |
| 20:03.21 | edistar | tuukkah: yeah |
| 20:03.22 | tuukkah | or, basic doesn't have tuples either? |
| 20:04.04 | edistar | I only used casiobasic, don't know about basic generally.. |
| 20:06.37 | balrog-kun | i think structs in basic are short arrays with elements of different types |
| 20:06.50 | cjb_ie | basic with structs?!? |
| 20:07.21 | balrog-kun | or what people use in place of structs :) |
| 20:07.28 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@82.127.243.16) |
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| 20:17.46 | IfChinsCouldKill | I think ibm adabas und natural is my personal nightmare |
| 20:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
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| 20:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko alex88ita (n=alex@adsl-158-154.37-151.net24.it) |
| 20:48.01 | alex88ita | hello! |
| 20:48.32 | *** part/#openmoko dinamich (n=damjan@ub141-7.static.adsl.volja.net) |
| 20:50.18 | edistar | alex88ita: h |
| 20:50.18 | edistar | i |
| 20:50.24 | alex88ita | hi edistar |
| 20:50.50 | alex88ita | do u happen to have the openmoko emulator working and installer? |
| 20:50.53 | alex88ita | installed* |
| 20:51.22 | edistar | alex88ita: yeah... 'make qemu' works for me, I do get errors but if I cd to the right dir and run the command it tells me it works ;) |
| 20:51.34 | alex88ita | uhm |
| 20:51.37 | alex88ita | i get an error |
| 20:51.48 | edistar | alex88ita: which one? -> nopaste.org |
| 20:51.52 | alex88ita | you know the download.sh and flash.sh scripts? |
| 20:52.08 | edistar | alex88ita: yes |
| 20:52.15 | alex88ita | download works good |
| 20:52.25 | alex88ita | i get an error when i've to run flash.sh |
| 20:52.28 | alex88ita | hold on i'll upload it |
| 20:52.31 | edistar | ok |
| 20:52.37 | alex88ita | thanks |
| 20:53.36 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p508B08DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:55.24 | alex88ita | executing now |
| 20:55.49 | alex88ita | btw, sorry about my rubbish english |
| 20:56.15 | edistar | alex88ita: no problem ;) |
| 20:56.19 | josch | alex88ita, I think the majority here is no natove english speaker :-) |
| 20:56.26 | alex88ita | eheh ok |
| 20:56.51 | alex88ita | *Please wait, programming the NAND flash* |
| 20:57.06 | edistar | timeout error? |
| 20:57.17 | alex88ita | not yet |
| 20:57.25 | edistar | alex88ita: ok |
| 20:57.45 | balrog-kun | when you get an error please copy all output from the start instead of only the error line |
| 20:57.56 | alex88ita | http://nopaste.org/p/aNLUnGFJr |
| 20:58.14 | alex88ita | i uploaded the last 10 lines or so |
| 20:58.28 | alex88ita | i can paste all the output if needed |
| 20:58.57 | balrog-kun | yes, it would be more informative |
| 20:58.59 | edistar | alex88ita: do you have debian testing or ubuntu? |
| 20:59.06 | alex88ita | debian sid |
| 20:59.26 | edistar | ah, ok |
| 20:59.30 | edistar | might be a known bug |
| 20:59.51 | alex88ita | o |
| 21:00.04 | alex88ita | i see |
| 21:00.15 | flexd | what's up with buildhost today? |
| 21:00.34 | flexd | i tried to do make qemu now, and it gets a 404 on http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/index.html :/ |
| 21:01.35 | mmontour | flexd: the path changed a while ago from "fic-gta01" to "neo1973" |
| 21:01.40 | edistar | flexd: I did a make qemu about 1 hour ago and it worked.. |
| 21:01.54 | flexd | mmontour: oh, how do i change the path on my end? |
| 21:02.10 | balrog-kun | flexd: it shouldn't try to fetch this file since some two weeks ago |
| 21:02.25 | mmontour | make update-makefile? I'm not sure as I don't use qemu. |
| 21:02.26 | balrog-kun | (also, the file doesn't exist so the 404 is ok) |
| 21:02.43 | edistar | alex88ita: it works at my end, I'm running lenny so that shouldn't be a problem |
| 21:02.57 | alex88ita | damn |
| 21:03.03 | flexd | balrog-kun: Well since the file has moved/changed path, how do i fix it on my end? |
| 21:03.08 | flexd | the update-makefile did nothing |
| 21:03.59 | flexd | it still seems to try to fetch from that place :/ |
| 21:04.16 | balrog-kun | flexd: update your sources |
| 21:04.25 | balrog-kun | i don't know how this is done in MokoMakefile, i don't use it |
| 21:05.31 | edistar | alex88ita: sure that you have the most current svn snapshot? |
| 21:05.41 | alex88ita | i think so |
| 21:05.52 | edistar | try again.. |
| 21:05.59 | edistar | svn checkout etc.. |
| 21:06.15 | alex88ita | yeah |
| 21:06.26 | alex88ita | i'll do everything from the beginning :P |
| 21:07.08 | alex88ita | https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973 |
| 21:07.11 | alex88ita | is this correct? |
| 21:07.12 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:07.15 | balrog-kun | yep |
| 21:07.19 | edistar | alex88ita: yes, just follow the wiki :) |
| 21:07.25 | alex88ita | k ;) |
| 21:08.22 | edistar | why isn't the sms app in the current image? |
| 21:09.19 | dcordes | lack of usabillity I guess |
| 21:09.30 | balrog-kun | edistar: i think there's gonna be an official sms app |
| 21:09.33 | *** join/#openmoko riot (n=wntrmut@krombacher-pils.oph.RWTH-Aachen.DE) |
| 21:09.37 | balrog-kun | integrated with the dialer |
| 21:10.18 | edistar | balrog-kun: I thought the sms app was already prototyped.. |
| 21:11.26 | balrog-kun | edistar: which sms app were you asking about though? |
| 21:11.26 | balrog-kun | maybe i'm just not updated :) |
| 21:11.59 | josch | openmoko-messages2 |
| 21:12.03 | edistar | balrog-kun: the one they were talking about on the mailinglist today |
| 21:12.45 | balrog-kun | ah okay, that's probably the official one :p |
| 21:13.01 | balrog-kun | by chris lord? |
| 21:13.16 | edistar | think so, yes |
| 21:13.24 | alex88ita | lol i get a different error now |
| 21:13.36 | alex88ita | sh ./openmoko/download.sh |
| 21:13.36 | alex88ita | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:13.36 | alex88ita | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:13.36 | alex88ita | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:13.53 | dcordes | lol |
| 21:14.16 | edistar | alex88ita: normal |
| 21:14.19 | edistar | I have that too |
| 21:14.26 | balrog-kun | someone mentioned the buildhost was acting-up today |
| 21:14.40 | edistar | alex88ita: but then when I do openmoko/flash.sh it works again |
| 21:14.45 | alex88ita | ah |
| 21:14.47 | alex88ita | :D |
| 21:15.10 | balrog-kun | that's only when you already have a rootfs image in openmoko/ |
| 21:15.23 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 21:15.24 | edistar | balrog-kun: well, I didn't |
| 21:15.34 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953ABE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:15.36 | alex88ita | me neither |
| 21:15.44 | edistar | balrog-kun: I started from scratch by wiki |
| 21:15.49 | alex88ita | and it's still not working after using flash.sh |
| 21:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko magumbade (n=magumbad@ppp-82-135-71-170.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 21:16.17 | edistar | balrog-kun: as long as it works.. |
| 21:16.58 | alex88ita | pfffff |
| 21:17.07 | edistar | alex88ita: hm? |
| 21:17.15 | alex88ita | no way |
| 21:17.24 | mmontour | Speaking of host problems, svn.berlios.de is down (pingable but svn gets connection refused) :( |
| 21:17.36 | mwester | Yep, been screwing up builds all day now :( |
| 21:17.58 | edistar | alex88ita: flash.sh doesn't work? hm |
| 21:18.06 | alex88ita | it doesn't |
| 21:18.21 | alex88ita | it seems like it's looking for a root directory |
| 21:19.07 | edistar | funny.. why does it work on my machine then? |
| 21:19.16 | flexd | svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused |
| 21:19.18 | flexd | :'( |
| 21:19.21 | alex88ita | :( |
| 21:19.27 | flexd | oh |
| 21:19.34 | flexd | Someone else just said it too heh |
| 21:19.41 | alex88ita | eheh |
| 21:20.28 | alex88ita | I dunno guys |
| 21:21.17 | slomo | abraxa_: gst uses them indirectly through g_object_ref and friends... and i'd guess this happens very very often ;) |
| 21:21.20 | edistar | alex88ita: tried make qemu? |
| 21:21.36 | alex88ita | nope |
| 21:21.41 | edistar | alex88ita: try that.. |
| 21:22.07 | edistar | in a different dir. |
| 21:22.07 | edistar | . |
| 21:22.07 | abraxa_ | slomo: Oh, okay. I wasn't aware g_object_ref & Co were making use of atomic ops - thanks for the hint |
| 21:22.07 | alex88ita | in my home? |
| 21:22.14 | balrog-kun | i'm afraid there's no such target as "qemu" in the qemu Makefile |
| 21:22.44 | edistar | balrog-kun: yes, I different makefile.. |
| 21:22.45 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:22.45 | slomo | abraxa_: also libatomic-ops should probably get this too, otherwise you won't be very happy with PA >= 0.9.7... |
| 21:22.55 | balrog-kun | if the first part that fails from those listed in the wiki is download.sh it would mean a buildhost problem |
| 21:23.05 | edistar | alex88ita: http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile |
| 21:23.11 | abraxa_ | slomo: Did you file a bug there, too? |
| 21:23.21 | slomo | abraxa_: not yet, tomorrow |
| 21:23.22 | slomo | bbl |
| 21:23.30 | edistar | alex88ita: could you paste the download.sh output? |
| 21:23.43 | alex88ita | yeah sure |
| 21:23.59 | alex88ita | pcdeb1:/home/alex/qemu-neo1973# ./openmoko/download.sh |
| 21:23.59 | alex88ita | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.59 | alex88ita | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.59 | alex88ita | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.15 | alex88ita | it doesn't print anything else |
| 21:24.28 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1 (n=Selveste@0x57307c18.hinxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 21:25.48 | alex88ita | edistar, what do u think about it |
| 21:25.53 | *** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:26.17 | edistar | my output: Retrieving available builds list... Kernel is... uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8-neo1973.bin Root filesystem is... not found |
| 21:26.22 | alex88ita | i'm trying the makefile thing |
| 21:26.30 | alex88ita | make qemu |
| 21:26.33 | edistar | yep |
| 21:27.09 | alex88ita | maybe this will install all the dev stuff |
| 21:27.47 | balrog-kun | oh yes, they have |
| 21:29.44 | alex88ita | it's downloading a lot of stuff |
| 21:29.55 | CIA-14 | 03andrew * r3472 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/env: Update rootfs wildcard to match new buildhost filenames. |
| 21:35.16 | edistar | alex88ita: how is it going? |
| 21:35.51 | alex88ita | seems like it's downloading the tones atm |
| 21:35.52 | alex88ita | :) |
| 21:36.01 | alex88ita | ringtones |
| 21:36.03 | edistar | alex88ita: ah, ok |
| 21:36.12 | alex88ita | thanks a lot eh |
| 21:36.20 | edistar | alex88ita: well.. not finished yet, is it.. |
| 21:36.29 | alex88ita | no yet not yet |
| 21:37.02 | alex88ita | edistar, what do u do in your life? are u a student? |
| 21:37.28 | edistar | alex88ita: go to school.. |
| 21:37.42 | alex88ita | high school? |
| 21:38.06 | edistar | alex88ita: yeah |
| 21:38.26 | alex88ita | thats good |
| 21:38.29 | alex88ita | where r u from? |
| 21:38.32 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 21:38.42 | edistar | alex88ita: germany |
| 21:38.51 | *** join/#openmoko Rodolphe12 (n=ortalo@laf31-1-81-56-84-23.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:38.54 | edistar | well...netherlands/germany |
| 21:39.19 | alex88ita | eheh |
| 21:39.21 | *** join/#openmoko |bluemaex| (n=bluemaex@81.169.235.116) |
| 21:39.29 | alex88ita | so u listen to techno right? |
| 21:39.41 | CVirus | germany == metal |
| 21:39.43 | josch | alex88ita, is germany = techno? |
| 21:40.05 | alex88ita | netherlands = hardcore = best dj's of the world |
| 21:40.10 | edistar | alex88ita: some, yes |
| 21:40.29 | alex88ita | example: dj tiesto |
| 21:40.35 | edistar | alex88ita: exactly |
| 21:40.39 | alex88ita | eheh |
| 21:40.43 | CVirus | Dj Tiesto is coming to egypt in days |
| 21:40.49 | alex88ita | wow |
| 21:40.51 | borg_ | i thougt germany = rammstein ;) |
| 21:41.05 | alex88ita | ehehe rammstein + kdmfm :D |
| 21:41.11 | edistar | borg_: thats what all americans think.. |
| 21:41.16 | alex88ita | take a look at the 'evil germany' track |
| 21:41.23 | borg_ | edistar: i am german.. ;) |
| 21:41.30 | borg_ | that was just fun ;) |
| 21:41.47 | josch | too many germans here ^^ |
| 21:41.54 | edistar | borg_: heh ;) |
| 21:42.15 | Rodolphe12 | hi |
| 21:42.18 | CM | josch: Genau |
| 21:42.22 | CM | ;) |
| 21:42.28 | edistar | finde ich gar nicht so schlimm |
| 21:42.29 | Rodolphe12 | any devs around? |
| 21:42.53 | CM | Rodolphe12: Not this late I think (european time) |
| 21:43.03 | josch | appearently no "real" devs |
| 21:43.21 | edistar | btw, to be a little bit less OT, have any alternative text input methods been adapted for OM yet? |
| 21:43.41 | josch | edistar, of course: bluetooth keyboards ^^ |
| 21:43.49 | CM | edistar: I've seen cell writer |
| 21:43.55 | edistar | josch: I mean alternative concepts.. |
| 21:44.05 | josch | my bt keyboard is still not working :-( |
| 21:44.08 | edistar | CM: any ipk that I can try in qemu? |
| 21:44.23 | CM | edistar: I think Ghiottone built it |
| 21:44.27 | edistar | I am still looking for a medium sized flat bt keyboard |
| 21:44.34 | edistar | CM: ok, I'll check it |
| 21:44.53 | CM | edistar: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Alessandro |
| 21:45.06 | edistar | CM: thx |
| 21:47.38 | josch | edistar, I can recommend you the freedom bt keyboard |
| 21:47.46 | josch | but atm it only works on ubuntu |
| 21:47.58 | josch | I assume there is a kernel module missing on openmoko |
| 21:48.08 | josch | but the keyboard is really great |
| 21:48.33 | josch | edistar, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/keyboard.jpg |
| 21:48.39 | edistar | josch: do you know if it works with maemo too? |
| 21:48.42 | *** join/#openmoko _fulgas (n=fn@81.84.174.43) |
| 21:48.51 | josch | don't know |
| 21:49.04 | josch | I even do not know if it will ever work with openmoko |
| 21:49.11 | josch | but I think if it works on ubuntu |
| 21:49.23 | josch | it will probably some time work on openmoko |
| 21:49.34 | edistar | josch: it should work soon.. don't bt keyboards speak a kind of standard protocol? |
| 21:50.22 | balrog-kun | yes, the samedrivers shoudl work on ubuntu and omoko (unless there's only a non-gpl binary) |
| 21:50.25 | *** part/#openmoko Rodolphe12 (n=ortalo@laf31-1-81-56-84-23.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:50.35 | josch | edistar, they do - I figured that I had to modprobe uinput to get further but there still seems to be a module missing |
| 21:50.35 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:51.00 | *** join/#openmoko lar5 (n=laprican@e176069183.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:51.05 | josch | balrog-kun, I'd know if I had installed a proprietary binary |
| 21:51.11 | edistar | josch: ok.. |
| 21:54.03 | alex88ita | i think it's done with downloading |
| 21:54.31 | alex88ita | WTF |
| 21:54.40 | alex88ita | same error ffs |
| 21:55.11 | balrog-kun | alex88ita: please update qemu sources |
| 21:55.12 | edistar | alex88ita: oh.. |
| 21:55.21 | alex88ita | how balrog-kun |
| 21:55.21 | balrog-kun | i fixed the paths to the rootfs |
| 21:55.50 | balrog-kun | with MokoMakefile i don't know, with svn it would be svn update |
| 21:56.04 | alex88ita | svn up? |
| 21:56.07 | alex88ita | i tried :P |
| 21:56.16 | balrog-kun | in the qemu directory |
| 21:56.25 | alex88ita | oh |
| 21:56.27 | alex88ita | wait a sec |
| 21:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.235.116) |
| 21:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p549531E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:56.49 | alex88ita | update to revision 3472 |
| 21:57.11 | alex88ita | dude balrog-kun :D |
| 21:57.13 | alex88ita | it works lol |
| 21:57.18 | alex88ita | it's downloading. |
| 21:57.26 | balrog-kun | well, flash.sh can still fail |
| 21:57.29 | *** join/#openmoko MuffY (n=chatzill@s55928932.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 21:57.33 | alex88ita | let's see |
| 21:57.37 | alex88ita | thanks |
| 21:59.02 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-5207db9de49929d2) |
| 22:00.34 | edistar | alex88ita: working? |
| 22:00.44 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:00.51 | alex88ita | it's downloading... still 2 minutes left :) |
| 22:00.56 | edistar | alex88ita: ok |
| 22:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 22:03.09 | edistar | alex88ita: so? |
| 22:03.24 | alex88ita | executing flash.sh now |
| 22:03.31 | edistar | ok |
| 22:03.48 | alex88ita | damn... i hope it works |
| 22:04.02 | edistar | yep |
| 22:04.07 | alex88ita | i see no errors |
| 22:04.19 | edistar | ah, so it worked? |
| 22:04.40 | alex88ita | i think so :D |
| 22:04.54 | edistar | alex88ita: does a window come up now? |
| 22:04.58 | alex88ita | yup |
| 22:05.04 | alex88ita | let's see if it can load nowww :D |
| 22:05.29 | edistar | heh ;) |
| 22:05.33 | alex88ita | eheh :D |
| 22:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko dread (n=markus@openmoko.medieninformatik.hdm-stuttgart.de) |
| 22:06.49 | edistar | alex88ita: well.. as soon as we hear a big cheer from you we know that it works.. |
| 22:07.02 | alex88ita | lol |
| 22:07.22 | alex88ita | i see a black screen |
| 22:07.42 | edistar | it's a start.. |
| 22:08.45 | alex88ita | yeah |
| 22:08.49 | alex88ita | definitely |
| 22:09.49 | alex88ita | :) |
| 22:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=quirc@gprs-pool-1-011.eplus-online.de) |
| 22:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko dread (n=markus@openmoko.medieninformatik.hdm-stuttgart.de) |
| 22:17.22 | edistar | does anyone know if video playback works yet? |
| 22:17.38 | CM | edistar: So-so |
| 22:17.42 | edistar | is OM using gstreamer? |
| 22:17.56 | CM | Yes |
| 22:18.07 | CM | But there's mplayer available too |
| 22:18.16 | edistar | CM: thats good |
| 22:18.18 | edistar | I like mplayed |
| 22:18.19 | edistar | mplayer |
| 22:18.25 | alex88ita | who doesnt :) |
| 22:18.27 | CM | It can play videos in qvga |
| 22:18.39 | edistar | CM: why not in VGA? |
| 22:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8B78.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:19.20 | balrog-kun | in VGA as well |
| 22:19.28 | edistar | ok :) |
| 22:19.35 | edistar | it does not lag? |
| 22:19.45 | josch | alex88ita, abraxa_ hates mplayer ^^ |
| 22:20.06 | josch | edistar, video zooming can only be done in software and is slooooow |
| 22:20.29 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.253.139) |
| 22:20.34 | balrog-kun | edistar: every video player starts lagging at some point, on any computer |
| 22:21.15 | edistar | balrog-kun: what do you mean? |
| 22:21.25 | edistar | josch: I don't want to zoom, just watch a VGA film |
| 22:21.29 | edistar | video |
| 22:21.35 | alex88ita | eheh josch |
| 22:21.56 | edistar | m.youtube.com :) without flash ;) |
| 22:21.56 | abraxa_ | josch: I don't hate it, it's just a PITA to integrate |
| 22:22.14 | balrog-kun | edistar: videos can be encoded in thousands of different formats, some will lag and some won't |
| 22:22.23 | josch | abraxa_, so no "I hate mplayer" shirt for you... |
| 22:22.38 | josch | balrog-kun, mpeg4 performs very good |
| 22:22.40 | edistar | balrog-kun: ah, ok.. |
| 22:22.53 | balrog-kun | some of the encodings are so complex that a 50x core xeon will lag :) |
| 22:22.59 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 22:23.18 | edistar | balrog-kun: do you think 3gp will be alright? |
| 22:23.21 | edistar | in VGA? |
| 22:23.42 | abraxa_ | edistar: VGA is a no-go, no matter the format/program |
| 22:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko kafteji (n=jaguar@213.150.186.202) |
| 22:23.44 | balrog-kun | edistar: i haven't tried, but perhaps nope, too slow |
| 22:23.52 | edistar | will it in the end? |
| 22:24.01 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 22:24.03 | abraxa_ | edistar: GTA02, *maybe* |
| 22:24.44 | edistar | abraxa_: I hope so, would be a shame to admit that my mobile then can't play videos that have the resolution of the screen.. |
| 22:25.21 | *** part/#openmoko kafteji (n=jaguar@213.150.186.202) |
| 22:25.22 | abraxa_ | edistar: Not really |
| 22:25.56 | abraxa_ | The screen is for readability and bling, not to cope with massive amounts of streaming data - if it does cope it'll be a nice bonus imo |
| 22:26.30 | josch | the resolution is too big for this size |
| 22:26.39 | josch | even qvga video looks crisp and clear |
| 22:27.15 | balrog-kun | it depends on the framerate and many other factors, with some parameters it can do VGA ofcourse |
| 22:27.48 | josch | balrog-kun, I tried and no |
| 22:27.53 | edistar | if VGA is overkill for such a small screen, why not run OM in 320x240? |
| 22:28.09 | josch | I found it impossible to ncode a VGA video with such a low bitrate that it will play smoothly |
| 22:28.39 | balrog-kun | josch: how about 1 frame per second? :) |
| 22:28.40 | mwester | edistar: YES! |
| 22:28.46 | josch | edistar, if you want to watch video you first switch the screen to qvga, yes |
| 22:28.51 | josch | balrog-kun, -_- |
| 22:29.01 | alex88ita | lol |
| 22:29.04 | alex88ita | 1fps |
| 22:29.13 | edistar | mwester: do you think it would be hard to change OM to QVGA? will the programs rescale? |
| 22:29.25 | josch | edistar, it looks horrible |
| 22:29.32 | mwester | edistar: sadly, they should rescale pretty well, once it's all done. |
| 22:29.37 | balrog-kun | well, i'm just saying that saying that it will not cope at VGA resolution makes no sense |
| 22:29.41 | balrog-kun | it depends on too many things |
| 22:31.04 | edistar | josch: sure? did you try out? I think koen ported OM to a motorola and it looked alright.. |
| 22:31.24 | josch | edistar, I only know what happens if I switch my neo to qvga |
| 22:31.32 | edistar | josch: ok.. what happens? |
| 22:31.47 | josch | maybe I should do a screenshot? |
| 22:31.52 | edistar | josch: would be great |
| 22:32.11 | edistar | mwester: why is it sad that it will rescale well? |
| 22:33.27 | mwester | My opinion: it is a waste of valuable CPU cycles on a device so small to have each and every GUI component computed and shaded on-the-fly. IMO, we would do better to have pre-sized and pre-shaded images that we move about the display. Much faster. |
| 22:34.01 | mjr | probably sensible |
| 22:34.35 | edistar | mwester: ah..like raster said some time ago? |
| 22:34.50 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 22:35.09 | mwester | Exactly. He's the man to know. |
| 22:35.10 | SpeedEvil | that's going to be a not utterly insignifcant amount of flash though is it? |
| 22:35.14 | josch | edistar, yeah raster is the best if it comes to those questions |
| 22:35.17 | SpeedEvil | 1M? |
| 22:35.46 | *** join/#openmoko edne (n=edne@c-d897e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:36.19 | mwester | SpeedEvil: compression works well on simple buttons and gui elements. There's no call for gradients and other stuff on the GTA01 (maybe the GTA02 can do it) |
| 22:36.36 | SpeedEvil | I suppose |
| 22:39.31 | edistar | josch: got a screenie? |
| 22:40.00 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__102 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-ef97bf5a8b7e6220) |
| 22:40.07 | josch | edistar, one moment |
| 22:40.24 | edistar | josch: I'll give you 10 moments ;) |
| 22:41.18 | josch | great! :-D |
| 22:42.56 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 22:43.52 | mwester | 10? Wow ! |
| 22:44.22 | DukeOfURL | mwester: 10-20? |
| 22:44.22 | edistar | the startscreen of OM, is there a way to customize it at some point, to add a shortcut to the browser or something similar? |
| 22:45.36 | Writchie | mwester: have you got a decent working 2.6.23 kernel? |
| 22:46.02 | flexd | edistar: i guess anything is possible if you want to edit the sources |
| 22:46.25 | josch | edistar, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/qvga.png |
| 22:46.33 | flexd | ... some code here ... |
| 22:46.44 | edistar | josch: thx |
| 22:46.51 | flexd | err |
| 22:46.53 | josch | yeah! a new mwester kernel would be great! |
| 22:47.13 | edistar | josch: ah, I understand :P |
| 22:47.18 | mwester | Writchie: Yes! (but not for the neo ;) |
| 22:47.29 | balrog-kun | josch: it looks like resolution of the framebuffer is not changed |
| 22:47.35 | *** join/#openmoko sid (i=unstable@glitchinthe.net) |
| 22:47.44 | balrog-kun | josch: do you use fbset to set new resolution? |
| 22:47.45 | mwester | Writchie: if I start assembling a 2.6.23 kernel, are there folks interested in testing same? |
| 22:47.53 | sid | haha @ topic |
| 22:48.01 | josch | I did echo qvga-normal > /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state && fbset qvga |
| 22:48.32 | Writchie | Writchie: i am - i need one to test my kernel gsm multiplexor |
| 22:48.34 | balrog-kun | well, it looks as if the fbset part was ignored or incorrect |
| 22:48.44 | Writchie | s/Writchie/mwester/ |
| 22:48.48 | mwester | The latest kernel images, BTW, do have the qvga support, but it's missing a patch, so it will resume in vga mode after suspend/resume :( |
| 22:49.04 | abraxa_ | mwester: Not a problem |
| 22:49.05 | mwester | Writchie: I'll take a look to see what we can get booting up. |
| 22:49.17 | sid | damn, this place has over 300 people, must be a lot of interest. |
| 22:49.22 | sid | used to be small |
| 22:49.32 | mwester | abraxa_: I have a kernel that fixes that, but I haven't uploaded it yet. I'll do that... |
| 22:49.33 | balrog-kun | Writchie: are you writing a gsm multiplexer that should work on the Neo? |
| 22:49.49 | abraxa_ | mwester: Only use for QVGA will be mplayer and during movie playback the Neo should not suspend in the first place |
| 22:49.56 | abraxa_ | mwester: ok |
| 22:50.10 | balrog-kun | Writchie: have you started the work already? |
| 22:50.30 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: it will probably use modestly less power in QVGA mode |
| 22:50.39 | edistar | abraxa_: yeah, if you could set qvga automagically when mplayer gets started and switch back when finished, that would be cool |
| 22:50.41 | Writchie | i am testing now on i386 - its showing signs of life |
| 22:50.53 | abraxa_ | edistar: That's what I'm doing :) |
| 22:51.01 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: "it"? |
| 22:51.02 | edistar | abraxa_: and it works fine? |
| 22:51.22 | abraxa_ | edistar: I didn't say that - but it's usable |
| 22:51.23 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: the RAM, the SOC, and the LCD will all use less power at lower data rates to the LCD |
| 22:52.10 | *** join/#openmoko TheAndichrist (n=andy@CPE-72-128-95-237.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 22:52.19 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Okay, but I hope that's not a motivation for you to run the GUI in 320x240 |
| 22:52.51 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: no - it might be a motivation in some apps though - especially dimmed screensavers with the CPU clocked down |
| 22:53.03 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Agreed |
| 22:53.50 | edistar | good night! cu some time |
| 22:55.19 | abraxa_ | night night :) |
| 22:55.41 | *** part/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 22:57.28 | mwester | SpeedEvil: Was the poor resolution on the power management voltage adjustment a driver issue, or inherent in the PM chip? |
| 22:58.03 | SpeedEvil | inherent. |
| 22:58.19 | SpeedEvil | it's got .3V voltage granularity on those rails |
| 22:58.20 | mwester | Same problem on the GTA02, do you know? |
| 22:58.28 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, yes. |
| 22:58.33 | mwester | Bummer. |
| 22:58.41 | mwester | .3 is a lot. |
| 22:58.57 | Writchie | but the GTA02 battery has an integral coulomb counter |
| 22:58.57 | SpeedEvil | 2.1V is spec as I understand it - the core CPU seems to work OK at 1.5V |
| 22:59.08 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: that's not relevant. |
| 22:59.13 | Writchie | my bad |
| 22:59.22 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: this is the core CPU voltages |
| 22:59.37 | Writchie | right - though you were talking about charge state |
| 22:59.48 | SpeedEvil | however, many of the PLLs seem to fall over at 1.5V |
| 23:00.03 | SpeedEvil | USB for example gets very flaky, as does audio |
| 23:00.16 | SpeedEvil | I suspect 1.6V would work just fine, but... |
| 23:00.37 | mwester | ...but we have to go up to 1.8V |
| 23:00.37 | *** join/#openmoko lar5 (n=laprican@e176087004.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:00.47 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 23:01.25 | mwester | So really, it's 1.8V or suspend, for practical purposes. |
| 23:01.38 | SpeedEvil | Basically, yes. |
| 23:04.47 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: I still like the idea of processing some limited stuff from suspend state. |
| 23:05.54 | SpeedEvil | Yes, it's a nice idea. |
| 23:06.47 | Writchie | it may be possible to talk to the gps (and gsm) serial ports while suspended. |
| 23:07.29 | Writchie | just like the arm 7's in the bt and gsm are running in a low power state |
| 23:07.56 | Writchie | kinda like an extended ACPI bios |
| 23:10.57 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177770792.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:14.12 | josch | will the issue with the bad phone audio be fixed sometime? |
| 23:18.29 | daMaestro | +1 to that question |
| 23:22.04 | *** join/#openmoko Aztlek (n=c8024005@acuario.unicauca.edu.co) |
| 23:24.44 | cjb_ie | is that not just a mixerset problem? |
| 23:26.34 | rwhitby | mwester: "There's an amazing amount of emptiness between cities here in the midwest USA. Even more as you go westward..." - heh - you should travel in Australia sometime ... |
| 23:31.20 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@88-149-139-176.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 23:31.30 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 23:34.04 | daMaestro | cjb_ie, i would expect so, yes |
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| 23:38.36 | *** join/#openmoko VladimirBG (n=Vlad@cable-89-216-182-49.dynamic.sbb.co.yu) |
| 23:38.41 | VladimirBG | hello |
| 23:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko hexa (n=hexa@modemcable002.59-70-69.static.videotron.ca) |
| 23:43.23 | *** join/#openmoko glandouille (n=nicolas@blurp.yi.org) |
| 23:45.10 | *** join/#openmoko Freaky_T (n=chatzill@c-24-0-106-222.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:49.27 | *** join/#openmoko HistoryOnTheRoad (n=gerald@CPE0080c6f097c0-CM014480104023.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:49.54 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@CPE-139-168-207-218.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 23:49.57 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177770792.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:53.27 | HistoryOnTheRoad | Dumb question: If I don't have /etc/alsa on my moko, is there any way to get it back? |
| 23:56.55 | ljp | alsa states get put into /etc |
| 23:57.05 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:57.13 | ljp | for some reason |
| 23:58.25 | HistoryOnTheRoad | oh :S |
