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| 00:37.18 | Psi | is sound (for incoming call) supposed to work on qtopia yet? i get sound for calls but only vibrator on ring? |
| 00:39.28 | Psi | nevermind found my answer :) |
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| 01:07.25 | hachi | matchbox-common is conflicting with openmoko-session2 and openmoko-today2-folders now |
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| 04:25.17 | mike3_ | hey guys..... Just curious but I was reading on how openmoko / neo1973 is going to help limit roaming charges. Mind me asking how ?? |
| 04:25.52 | roh | *sigh* .. who tells you that? you should ask him |
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| 04:48.12 | mwester | Mine limits roaming charges. (hehehe!) |
| 04:52.05 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
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| 04:55.50 | mike3_ | mwester, How does that work. I don't understand how all these providers are getting people with roaming charges and that openMoko won't when you're using the same provider. |
| 04:59.39 | *** join/#openmoko quicksand (n=clarke@76.14.28.160) |
| 05:01.56 | quicksand | mike3_: it limits roaming charges by not actually being able to make or receive phone calls. :-) |
| 05:02.36 | mike3_ | :) |
| 05:03.02 | mwester | mike3_: it will function like any other phone, and will be subject to roaming charges as any other device. |
| 05:03.03 | quicksand | Seriously, though, there's no network lock-in with the Neo1973. If you're traveling to a foreign country, just pick up a cheap prepaid sim there. You can't do that with (e.g.) the iPhone by default. |
| 05:03.06 | *** join/#openmoko xaid|wor1 (n=zaid@d39-33-195.home1.cgocable.net) |
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| 05:03.35 | mike3_ | quicksand, Yah I was going to say, by default. Once the iphone is hacked you have those options. |
| 05:03.59 | mike3_ | quicksand, I like the idea of expansion. |
| 05:04.03 | quicksand | Right. But that's about the only way it "limits roaming charges" that I can think of. |
| 05:04.21 | mike3_ | Unlike the iphone weather it's cracked or not, you have to buy the next new iphone for the updated OS. |
| 05:04.23 | mike3_ | Which sucks. |
| 05:04.39 | quicksand | See, e.g., Windows Mobile. |
| 05:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko dexterr (i=dexter@ua-83-227-175-53.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 05:12.26 | mike3_ | quicksand, what do you mean? |
| 05:22.05 | quicksand | If you have a Windows Mobile 5 phone or PDA, you are at the manufacturer's mercy as to whether you get a WM6 upgrade or not. There's no money in it, so usually not. |
| 05:25.00 | quicksand | Any gtk+ people here? I'm looking for a knob widget. A round draggable knob with a pointer on it. |
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| 06:21.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1013 has been created by kiang(AT)osobiz.com |
| 06:21.02 | cdbot2 | * * Little issue |
| 06:21.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1013 |
| 06:22.26 | *** join/#openmoko ramvi (n=ramvi@CPE-58-165-72-163.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 06:23.20 | ramvi | It's said that the first devices to come with android will come in the midle of 2008. But am I correct that the Neo1973 is the first device that can run android? Since it's linux.. |
| 06:23.41 | ramvi | Just like the neto1973 can run qtec now |
| 06:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko q_ (n=q@c-69-250-208-101.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 06:25.20 | chihchun | is buildhost.openmoko.org dead? |
| 06:25.43 | chihchun | :-/ |
| 06:26.17 | chihchun | somebody fix the server plz :p |
| 06:26.21 | ramvi | Just thinking that it could be a way to get openmoko into the media. Not only does it run openmoko and is the first open mobile, it can also run the google android os |
| 06:26.31 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-115-188.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 06:26.41 | ramvi | But as I'm being ignored, I'll shut it |
| 06:27.50 | chihchun | humm.. |
| 06:28.06 | *** join/#openmoko openmoko (n=jouston@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 06:28.08 | chihchun | ramvi: I think the same thing as you |
| 06:28.24 | openmoko | Hello openmoko |
| 06:28.40 | chihchun | ramvi: but both openmoko and android are platforms |
| 06:28.53 | chihchun | ramvi: they might be conflicted |
| 06:28.55 | ramvi | Thanks chihchun :) |
| 06:29.22 | ramvi | Hmm, in the same way as ubuntu and suse I guess. Only a good thing |
| 06:29.26 | chihchun | ramvi: but I guess it's not that hard to port the android's jvm on neo1973 |
| 06:30.04 | ramvi | That would make the neo1973 hot as hell. Only device in the world that runs android. half a year before devices are being released. |
| 06:31.09 | chihchun | haha, it will |
| 06:31.16 | chihchun | I believe so |
| 06:32.10 | ramvi | Openmoko doesnt have dalvik java, does it? Just an installation of dalvik on openmoko would make it run all applications made by developers for the google developers competition |
| 06:32.26 | *** join/#openmoko d3 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 06:32.26 | ramvi | Mmm, I'm looking forward to december sooo much |
| 06:32.27 | chihchun | humm.... |
| 06:32.44 | chihchun | what's the jvm on the neo1973 now? |
| 06:32.56 | ramvi | java je? |
| 06:33.06 | chihchun | I mean in the new OM2007.2 |
| 06:33.20 | ramvi | I dont know.. |
| 06:33.24 | chihchun | I can not access to buildhost, and also don't want to build the whole image by myself |
| 06:33.31 | chihchun | let me check with the developers |
| 06:37.22 | chihchun | well, if we can have com.google.android.* classes and interfaces document |
| 06:37.27 | chihchun | maybe we can use different jvm |
| 06:40.05 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:40.24 | ramvi | Hmm, much of the code wont be released untill spring 08 :/ |
| 06:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 06:41.53 | chihchun | :-/ |
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| 06:50.52 | mmontour | http://www.pastebin.ca/778042 - Is this a compiler bug, or is there some undefined behaviour in there? |
| 06:53.08 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 06:55.25 | roh | hm.. buildhost is down indeed.. strange |
| 06:55.57 | roh | we had some issues with that machine lately, gismo will take care of that |
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| 06:58.54 | ewon | anyone here ever used incredibuild? |
| 06:58.58 | ewon | it rocks my face off |
| 07:00.21 | roh | ewon no. i dont use microsoft compilers for a long time now and that solved all my problems since |
| 07:02.50 | ewon | heh :) |
| 07:05.03 | mmontour | roh: Do you know if OpenMoko will keep the GTA01 in stock until the GTA02 launches, or is there a chance it could sell out again? |
| 07:06.18 | roh | dunno. to be fair i see no real reason for keeping gta01 in production then.. |
| 07:07.37 | roh | mmontour or do you see a reason i do not know about yet? |
| 07:09.56 | mmontour | If the GTA02 ships soon it doesn't matter. If not, I'm wondering if people will still be able to get GTA01's |
| 07:10.18 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F0A3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:10.33 | mmontour | I'm giving a presentation to my local LUG about OpenMoko, and I don't want to tell people "you can buy GTA01 now" if that won't be the case... |
| 07:12.20 | roh | mmontour well. we are out of orange ones, but i think there are enough black ones in stock |
| 07:12.58 | mmontour | OK, thanks. |
| 07:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 07:13.29 | mwester | :D |
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| 07:21.36 | *** join/#openmoko moprilo (n=nada@190.10.0.86) |
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| 07:22.25 | moprilo | anyone plan on using the december edition as an everyday phone? |
| 07:22.45 | horvatj73 | yes me |
| 07:23.15 | moprilo | think it will stand? battery-wise?... |
| 07:23.30 | horvatj73 | :( |
| 07:23.59 | moprilo | I urgently need a phone change, but don't want the iphone, i want the neo, but reading blogs i'm not sure is still ready for everyday use |
| 07:24.18 | horvatj73 | you may be right |
| 07:24.45 | horvatj73 | I don't think the december edition will be available in december... |
| 07:24.52 | moprilo | i'm more worried about the battery .. :S, cause glitches will be fixed with time |
| 07:25.01 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFE030.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:25.05 | moprilo | really?.. |
| 07:25.08 | moprilo | november? |
| 07:25.10 | moprilo | haha |
| 07:25.14 | horvatj73 | yes the battery issu is :x |
| 07:25.22 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADD02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:25.47 | horvatj73 | I got my secon neo yesterday |
| 07:25.56 | horvatj73 | this time WITH the ugly debug board |
| 07:26.15 | horvatj73 | cos my first one seems to be unrecoverbly bricked |
| 07:26.39 | horvatj73 | and I asked them to deliver the NEW edition |
| 07:26.59 | horvatj73 | but it seems not to be available... |
| 07:27.14 | horvatj73 | but now I have 3 batteries ;( |
| 07:28.23 | moprilo | and how long does the battery last? |
| 07:28.28 | moprilo | for you |
| 07:29.29 | moprilo | the "december" edition is suposed to come with higher power battery, but also brings wifi to drain it all away |
| 07:29.56 | horvatj73 | yes wifi would be GREAT |
| 07:30.11 | horvatj73 | don't know how long the new batteries last |
| 07:30.32 | horvatj73 | I gave them torpor to unbrick our phones ;-) |
| 07:31.55 | moprilo | but an educated guess for you on the new phone will be more than 2 days standby time? maybe 4-6hours talk? |
| 07:32.18 | moprilo | or less much lesS>?:S |
| 07:34.49 | horvatj73 | I guess the answer is: NO |
| 07:34.54 | horvatj73 | :x |
| 07:35.22 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 07:35.52 | horvatj73 | Speaking of stand by was redefined by openmoko GTA01 |
| 07:36.03 | horvatj73 | no stand by at all |
| 07:36.10 | horvatj73 | just remove the battery |
| 07:36.23 | horvatj73 | every time you dn't need the mobile |
| 07:36.28 | horvatj73 | ;) |
| 07:44.07 | xzcvczx | moprilo: if the phone only has 2 day standby i dont think it will do to well to anyone but nerds |
| 07:48.55 | moprilo | but its a nerds phone for now |
| 07:49.43 | moprilo | maybe i have a misconception, what i meant is .. would it hold up for 2 days.. |
| 07:50.05 | moprilo | i have a blackberry and it holds up for 3 days tops |
| 07:50.33 | *** join/#openmoko jollen (i=7cdb05dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-72962ad4e390e4c4) |
| 07:50.40 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 07:50.51 | roh | moprilo i think when all powersaving mechanisms are implemented in software we will archieve 2 ord 3 days of regular use. |
| 07:51.11 | moprilo | great.. that's what i wanted to hear |
| 07:51.14 | roh | the app-cpu would stay in suspend to ram most of the time and only wake up from time to time |
| 07:51.14 | hachi | is buildhost down? |
| 07:51.21 | hachi | I can't route to it |
| 07:51.43 | roh | hachi yes. and since its saturday i let gismo sleep rather than to ring him out at 4am ;) |
| 07:51.52 | hachi | that's fine |
| 07:51.56 | hachi | I just wanted to know if it was me |
| 07:52.20 | roh | moprilo i cannot promise that times.. its just a educated guess from a hardware hackers point of view |
| 07:52.33 | hachi | is there a status system for this sort of stuff? |
| 07:52.38 | hachi | so I can look, rather than ask? |
| 07:52.54 | roh | depends mostly of how often you klick around on it (waking it up) and how low we get the gsm in power-consumption |
| 07:53.42 | roh | hachi: nothin public afaik. i could ask gismo if he wants to make a readonly copy of his monitoring visible for the public if there really is interrest in such stuff |
| 07:53.56 | hachi | oh, I mean a general status system |
| 07:54.15 | hachi | like... earlier I had install conflicts with matchbox and something else |
| 07:54.34 | hachi | and the other night the moko makefile was fetching an unavailable version of sqlite |
| 07:54.39 | hachi | you know, known issues |
| 07:57.33 | xzcvczx | roh: i got up for work at 4am this morning :P |
| 07:57.51 | roh | ah.. such stuff.. no.. besides the wiki there is no place.. (and the bugtracker) |
| 07:58.09 | chihchun | hello |
| 07:58.11 | roh | if you have something you can reproduce, put it in bugzilla, so we don't loose track |
| 07:58.25 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 07:58.27 | hachi | my phone flashes when I tell it to shut down :) |
| 08:01.10 | chihchun | buildhost is down is down |
| 08:02.49 | hachi | actually, that's my main issue that I can't quite figure out how to debug |
| 08:03.03 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@81.80-202-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 08:03.23 | hachi | I don't see a way for me to debug a hardware issue like that |
| 08:03.53 | hachi | but lack of documentation of this bug makes me think that I'm the only one with a phone that flashes after shutdown |
| 08:04.15 | roh | hachi flashes? |
| 08:04.31 | hachi | the screen powers on for an instant, white |
| 08:04.33 | hachi | then powers off again |
| 08:04.39 | hachi | repeat ad infinitum |
| 08:05.11 | roh | it repeats? thats weird. all cables pulled out? |
| 08:05.21 | hachi | well, all external ones yes |
| 08:05.31 | hachi | if I remove the battery and replace it it stays off |
| 08:05.34 | roh | what color is your pcb? did you regulary order it? |
| 08:05.46 | hachi | I... uhh, hold on |
| 08:05.55 | hachi | I didn't order it |
| 08:06.39 | hachi | friend of mine got it free, couldn't get it to work decently... I took it and started nurturing it |
| 08:06.55 | hachi | in fact, it's doing it right now and I didn't even notice |
| 08:07.03 | roh | because if you got an old P0 series device (gta01bv3) or a red pcb seried developer device (gta01bv4) from taipeh.. then it could be you still have Q1001 placed and youre hitting an old bug thus |
| 08:07.34 | hachi | red pcb, GTA01B_V4 |
| 08:07.47 | roh | uuuhm.. ok.. |
| 08:08.00 | hachi | taiwan |
| 08:08.01 | roh | then you probably hit that bug |
| 08:08.11 | hachi | it's a hardware issue? |
| 08:08.29 | roh | kind of. its also relatively complicated and took some time to find out whats happeing |
| 08:08.52 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-1126.bb.online.no) |
| 08:08.53 | roh | we resolved it by removing one transistor in the final device |
| 08:08.56 | hachi | I have SMD equipment, but no knowledge of the internals of this device |
| 08:09.02 | hachi | ahh |
| 08:09.13 | hachi | does the PCB have markers for this transistor? |
| 08:09.42 | roh | dunno. but i can pinpont the location. its really ugly to remove because its inside the gsm shielding case |
| 08:10.03 | hachi | augh... bleh |
| 08:10.13 | hachi | is the backside of the gsm sheilding open? I doubt it |
| 08:10.28 | hachi | full solder line around the perimiter? |
| 08:10.36 | hachi | no need ot answer, I'll have it open in 2 minutes here |
| 08:10.44 | roh | there are 2 types of shielding been used. one that can be removed when you know what you are doing and one thats soldered on |
| 08:13.16 | hachi | that bluetooth antenna is an interesting design |
| 08:13.32 | roh | ;) |
| 08:13.41 | horvatj73 | torpor: are you there? |
| 08:14.22 | hachi | roh |
| 08:14.30 | hachi | the shield that can be removed |
| 08:14.35 | hachi | is it a pressure fit? |
| 08:14.43 | hachi | I believe mine is |
| 08:15.25 | roh | hachi when you see small clips at the border, yes. just be careful not to bend the whole thong too much and not damage the pcb with the screwdriver |
| 08:16.19 | hachi | expensive mistake if I break it... I'll have to buy another one |
| 08:16.21 | hachi | :) |
| 08:16.38 | roh | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_bottom.jpg is a picture of the removable shield |
| 08:16.46 | roh | on the right side is the gsm |
| 08:17.20 | hachi | thats... not resolving |
| 08:17.36 | hachi | I swear I just had the wiki open not 10 minutes ago |
| 08:17.46 | hachi | oh wait, connection isn't happening |
| 08:17.56 | roh | http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/e/ef/Gta01b_v4_front.jpg is a picture with removed shieldings |
| 08:19.39 | roh | there are 2 transistors in the upper right corner of the gsm on the last picture. inside the shielding, 'below' the fpc connector to the display |
| 08:20.04 | roh | the one more in the corner is Q1001 |
| 08:20.34 | roh | which needs to go. please do this only if youre 100% sure that you have the experience in soldering such small stuff |
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| 08:21.17 | hachi | I'm debating it |
| 08:22.18 | hachi | if I may ask something else as well |
| 08:22.40 | hachi | is this hardware designed to handle power supply via usb without a battery? |
| 08:22.41 | *** join/#openmoko mike3_ (n=Mike@dhcp-0-13-10-78-a2-54.cpe.mountaincable.net) |
| 08:23.04 | hachi | because I accidentally did that once, for a few seconds... and I could hear what I would usually call 'capacitor whine' from the device |
| 08:24.25 | roh | hachi http://people.openmoko.org/roh/Gta01b_v4_front_Q1001.jpg |
| 08:24.37 | roh | hachi its not designed to run without a battery |
| 08:25.04 | roh | i dunno really what then happens.. probably the pmu cannot work properly and it stays off |
| 08:25.26 | roh | i painted you a nice green circle around Q1001 |
| 08:26.43 | hachi | you're awesome |
| 08:27.22 | roh | wel.. even if i cannot give out schematics or gerber, i can still look at it and tell some things ;) |
| 08:28.37 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 08:30.22 | hachi | is there an image of the fixed version as well? |
| 08:30.35 | hachi | or is the layout different? |
| 08:30.51 | roh | fixed? well. we just have green instead of red pcbs and did not place the transistor |
| 08:30.59 | roh | the layout is still the same |
| 08:31.32 | roh | thats why both are called gta01bv4 .. we did not expect to have this devices traveling too far |
| 08:31.50 | roh | green means its from MP |
| 08:31.54 | hachi | MP? |
| 08:32.06 | roh | mass production, made in china |
| 08:32.20 | roh | the red ones were done in taiwan, as a small testseries |
| 08:33.08 | roh | how did this one end up with you? may i ask where youre located? |
| 08:35.02 | hachi | I'm in San Francisco |
| 08:35.11 | hachi | I got it from a man named David Recordon |
| 08:35.17 | hachi | it's not really mine |
| 08:35.27 | hachi | he's loaning it to me, since I haven't purchased my own |
| 08:35.37 | roh | i see |
| 08:36.14 | hachi | I do not know how he got it |
| 08:36.23 | gi-el | david recordon. hacker. scuba diver. |
| 08:36.26 | hachi | but... it has a serial number if you want to look that up :) |
| 08:36.40 | hachi | yeah, I've gone diving with him |
| 08:36.45 | hachi | I also work with him |
| 08:37.06 | gi-el | :) |
| 08:37.07 | roh | not neccessary.. i did not want to track it down.. just personal interrest |
| 08:37.17 | hachi | gi-el, you know him? |
| 08:37.52 | gi-el | hachi: no, but google does :P |
| 08:37.56 | hachi | ahh |
| 08:38.09 | roh | *g* |
| 08:38.21 | hachi | I need safety glasses to get this bloody sheilding off, it keeps snapping back shut on its own |
| 08:39.18 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:42.31 | hachi | do you know what type of solder the red boards have? |
| 08:43.12 | hachi | GPS antenna has silver solder I think... claims ROHS |
| 08:44.17 | roh | uh.. no clue. |
| 08:44.25 | *** join/#openmoko univac_ (n=univac@148.81.191.193) |
| 08:44.38 | roh | ive only regular old solder and not had a problem so far |
| 08:44.56 | torpor | morning folks |
| 08:45.03 | torpor | w00t! i got a new gta01!! |
| 08:45.09 | torpor | back to coding for me. and a new debug board too! |
| 08:45.18 | torpor | so heres' for a weekend of hacking adventure. |
| 08:45.22 | roh | but i also do not have real smd stuff.. just some very fine pliers and some experience with weller soldering irons |
| 08:45.34 | roh | torpor nice.. that was fast |
| 08:45.51 | torpor | yeah, we placed the order on tuesday and it arrived yesterday (Friday) so its a pretty good turnaround. |
| 08:46.10 | hachi | can I just lift the emitter and get the same effect? or do I need to remove at least two of the legs? |
| 08:46.17 | torpor | i'm going to try to RMA the busted ones if we can't get them working - it really seems to me that there's something else wrong with the phone i can't recover. |
| 08:46.50 | hachi | I'm just seeing that there's no clearance near the shield wall there |
| 08:47.05 | torpor | horvatj73: i'm here now.. great that you got us the spare gta01! |
| 08:47.06 | roh | hachi its an open collector driver, so removing it completely is probably best. atleast thats what our rework crew did |
| 08:47.06 | hachi | wondering if I can get away with just lifting the one leg I can get at |
| 08:47.17 | hachi | dang, ok |
| 08:48.33 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-154-219.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:48.38 | torpor | anyone know what the status with javascript-browsing capabilities is on the current openmoko front? |
| 08:50.24 | roh | hachi hachi lifting pin2 should help.. but i dunno which one that is on that package |
| 08:51.07 | torpor | horvatj73: i'm here man .. just got up .. had a latenight hacksession with the new phone, its working fine. haven't tried the debug board but i will do that this morning. |
| 08:51.42 | horvatj73 | yeah man! |
| 08:52.04 | torpor | its really great that you got us this spare pkg man, i must say. i hope we can get all our phones fixed now! |
| 08:52.21 | torpor | then we can have maybe a good couple of openmoko@metalab sessions in the next few weeks eh? |
| 08:52.43 | hachi | roh: the worst part of this is... I could just clip it off... but I really badly need a way out in case this breaks the phone worse :\ |
| 08:52.59 | torpor | hachi: what are you doing? |
| 08:53.21 | hachi | trying to make my phone not flash flash flash flash flash when I tell it to power off :) |
| 08:53.32 | torpor | the screen flashes? |
| 08:53.36 | hachi | yup |
| 08:54.14 | horvatj73 | torpor: what about meeting eachother at metalab this afternoon? |
| 08:54.43 | hachi | torpor: I have a red board... which seems to mean I landed a phone that wasn't supposed to hit the public :) |
| 08:54.57 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADD02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:55.36 | roh | hachi i see.. well.. everybody else does not have this transistor at all, so i would see no harm |
| 08:56.20 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-186-129-156.web.vodafone.de) |
| 08:56.58 | torpor | horvatj73: i have to check with the wife but its possible. okay if i call you after lunch? i've got some family stuff to do this morning as well, so i have to juggle it a bit. |
| 08:57.09 | torpor | hachi: make sure its not a gta02! :) |
| 08:57.40 | horvatj73 | torpor: family stuff... me too... |
| 08:57.44 | hachi | I has stereo speakers... not a 02 :) |
| 08:57.55 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:58.36 | hachi | well... that certainly gives us a clue about production status :) |
| 08:58.39 | horvatj73 | torpor: just give me a call whenever it is okay for you ;-) |
| 09:00.28 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 09:00.32 | torpor | horvatj73: i will call around 1pm, after lunch.. gotta make sure i stay politically sensible with all this hacking, you know! but for sure we should have a metalab hack session this weekend .. |
| 09:01.23 | horvatj73 | torpor: no problem, maybe I could try out the debug board with my phone today? |
| 09:04.20 | torpor | for sure. |
| 09:04.38 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.229) |
| 09:04.50 | torpor | horvatj73: i'm going to set up the debug board in a minute and see if i can debrick my old phone .. stay tuned. |
| 09:05.32 | horvatj73 | torpor: :P |
| 09:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@75-168-118-61.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 09:07.07 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 09:07.07 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 09:08.59 | hachi | roh, here I go... got the shield cleared out of the way for the moment |
| 09:09.18 | hachi | here's hoping you aren't pulling my leg :) |
| 09:09.47 | torpor | is buildhost down? |
| 09:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D89B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:11.51 | roh | torpor japp |
| 09:13.39 | torpor | horvatj73: okay i'm going to take my family for a little walk in the next hour, and then after that - around 1 or 2pm, i will head to metalab for the afternoon so lets have a hack session there today .. i'll call you when i'm on my way there .. |
| 09:13.42 | roh | hm.. these kids.. i just wish we had such marketing-guys and a supportteam to handle the flood after |
| 09:13.50 | torpor | roh: what kids? |
| 09:14.31 | roh | torpor masturbating on vaporware as if it was the best and gratest since the invention of pr0n ;) |
| 09:14.54 | torpor | roh: right. i guess you're talking about the list.. |
| 09:15.08 | torpor | me, personally, i'm sick of android. show it to me on a running phone and then we can talk. until then, meh. |
| 09:15.33 | roh | still puzzles me.. i took a quick lock at it, saw no real content besides press fud and a date, well.. on 12th i downloaded the tarballs and took a look.. and now i know there is nothing coming and no danger for us in the next 12month |
| 09:16.22 | torpor | the thing is that google recognizes that the phone is the next 'desktop' .. thats exciting in and of itself |
| 09:16.22 | torpor | and if openmoko can get past these bootstrap wrinkles, it can really be in a good position within a month or two, to get some great stuff done. |
| 09:16.28 | roh | even then.. its java. i 've had enough of this java-bullshit on embedded. i can waste my batterytime much more efficiently with homegrown c-code |
| 09:16.42 | torpor | i'm already planning on targetting openmoko as a platform exclusively for the next 3 months, on the basis of the hardware in front of me. |
| 09:16.54 | torpor | if i can get a gta02 i'll be even more happy to code for it exclusively .. |
| 09:17.23 | torpor | yeah, java is just for people who are too lazy to learn how easy it is to cross-compile .. ;) |
| 09:17.35 | roh | what i hope is that google pushes some vendors.. gives the whole specs must be free more drive... i do not care about their platform much. it gives me no freedom to do what I want. its a platform for vendors and carriers, not for users |
| 09:18.25 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 09:18.50 | torpor | i don't think much of google as a hardware/software company, personally. surely they are a server-farm company. |
| 09:18.50 | roh | and the drivers ive seen are mostly just wrappers for nonfree libs in userspaceö. meaning the 3d-kerneldriver is only a stub mapping the registers |
| 09:19.15 | torpor | roh: there's no need for google to do all that, other than that they are anti-linux in some ways, or at least anti-distro. |
| 09:19.23 | roh | so there is not even hw-documentation or usable gpl drivers coming out of this, just junk as we know it from too many examples... |
| 09:19.43 | roh | (please note that all this is my personal opinion, not anythin i say as an openmoko employee) |
| 09:19.57 | torpor | the distro wars are the real issue with the google release. people are FUD'ifying the reality of how easy it is to just fork and build your own distro for the embedded space. in fact its as easy - or even easier (because of hardware logistics) - than it is to build a distro for a normal PC .. |
| 09:20.42 | roh | distros are the smallest problem in all of this. no kernelsource that gives you hw-abstraction is the problem. |
| 09:21.02 | roh | they just abuse it. they even use a libc unter bsd license |
| 09:22.09 | roh | guess whyß they do not want free for users or hackers. they want more marketshare for their platform within all the companies that do not have anything to sell on their own. se, nokia and co, they are are not part of this.. guess why. |
| 09:22.24 | roh | but thats enough ranting i think ;) please remember my note |
| 09:23.45 | ScaredyCat | I dunno "<roh> torpor masturbating on vaporware " ..... I'm not sure I want to remember that! |
| 09:24.11 | horvatj73 | torpor: okay I could be there at let's say 2 or 3 p.m. |
| 09:24.50 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 09:28.23 | roh | ScaredyCat *g* |
| 09:28.43 | roh | something completely offtopic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEpZEFeN7Yc |
| 09:29.00 | hachi | hey roh |
| 09:29.00 | roh | for our german speaking people... some nice music which fits the current politics |
| 09:29.08 | hachi | what do you think the chances are that this worked? |
| 09:29.12 | hachi | 90%? |
| 09:29.22 | hachi | I'm about to power it on :) |
| 09:29.48 | roh | hachi ive got no clue. but it should just do |
| 09:30.35 | hachi | on |
| 09:31.10 | hachi | booting |
| 09:31.13 | hachi | no crash |
| 09:31.23 | playya | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0 <- for all people here |
| 09:31.27 | borg_ | roh: they got überwacht from the bka after they made the song "11. september", they noticed it and made then this song "hallo verfassungsschutz" |
| 09:31.30 | borg_ | thats nuts :) |
| 09:31.35 | borg_ | at least that is what the fud from fefe says ;) |
| 09:31.41 | playya | is qemu now compiling on ubuntu |
| 09:31.52 | hachi | it's up, halting now |
| 09:32.01 | roh | borg_ i know. i know fefe and some guys who probably are under surveilance too. |
| 09:32.28 | hachi | roh, you rule |
| 09:32.34 | hachi | it doesn't do it anymore |
| 09:32.34 | roh | eventually i should greet them from time to time like the gdr citicens did in phonecalls |
| 09:32.42 | borg_ | :) |
| 09:32.45 | hachi | let's see if I can hop on GSM now |
| 09:32.55 | roh | hachi *g* nice. |
| 09:35.59 | hachi | now, can you tell me what I need to do to turn this into a GTA02 ? ;) |
| 09:36.30 | ewon | heh |
| 09:36.35 | ewon | don't mention the war |
| 09:36.58 | hachi | I am very much kidding |
| 09:37.31 | hachi | roh here just told me what transistor to remove to make my phone not stay on when I ask it to shut down :) |
| 09:39.23 | *** join/#openmoko IfChinsCouldKill (n=ifchinsc@p5B106458.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:41.00 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host124-122-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:41.21 | Psi | hachi, how come it stayed on? |
| 09:41.43 | roh | Psi ge got some preseries device |
| 09:41.58 | Psi | ah |
| 09:42.22 | hachi | I'm actively doing stuff with it though... not making apps yet |
| 09:42.32 | hachi | seeing what I can do with the underlying system though |
| 09:43.12 | hachi | I need to dream up an app for myself |
| 09:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko dexterr_ (i=dexter@ua-83-227-175-53.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:49.10 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: "Quite frankly Google can take their $10 Million bribe and ... well you can probably guess where I'm going to suggest they put it." |
| 09:49.14 | doc|home | your bank account? |
| 09:49.25 | doc|home | mine? I'd accept it.... |
| 09:51.02 | ewon | hell, for 10 million I'd wear a skirt and fuckme-boots to work |
| 09:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko lucas (n=mattm@i-195-137-68-39.freedom2surf.net) |
| 09:57.34 | ScaredyCat | yes, but you do that anyway ewon ;) |
| 09:58.30 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@dsl51B69E9B.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 09:59.16 | torpor | groan |
| 09:59.29 | ScaredyCat | doc|home: yeah, but would you compromise your standards for $1000 .... |
| 09:59.38 | ScaredyCat | you don;t get the entire $10 mill.... |
| 09:59.54 | ewon | http://www.url.ie/19k |
| 10:00.08 | ScaredyCat | yeah, the reality might be somehwat worse torpor ;) |
| 10:00.09 | hachi | ugh, busybox tail doesn't support -f |
| 10:00.15 | hachi | is there an alternative? |
| 10:00.15 | torpor | yeah thats what i was thinking the truth may be .. |
| 10:01.18 | hachi | oh, yes it does |
| 10:01.25 | hachi | wonder why it wasn't working for me earlier |
| 10:01.31 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: standards? pffft |
| 10:01.34 | doc|home | :) |
| 10:01.47 | doc|home | to be honest. i think google can go fuck themselves |
| 10:01.56 | doc|home | 'nuff said |
| 10:02.12 | ScaredyCat | how |
| 10:02.17 | ScaredyCat | very |
| 10:02.20 | ScaredyCat | dare you |
| 10:02.23 | doc|home | they may figure that out |
| 10:02.45 | doc|home | seriously, can someone explain why people care about android? |
| 10:03.06 | doc|home | hehehe |
| 10:03.10 | doc|home | exactly |
| 10:03.24 | doc|home | openmoko+neo1973 is by far the superior option |
| 10:04.18 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 10:05.09 | roh | doc|home mostt people just believe hypes and do not question |
| 10:05.29 | doc|home | ah, the "drollgle" factor |
| 10:05.31 | zipola | doc|home, because it's backed up by one of the most influential IT companies? |
| 10:05.48 | doc|home | zipola: influential how? they have tonnes of cash? |
| 10:06.16 | doc|home | they're an advertising company with a search engine and email client tacked on |
| 10:06.40 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa[AwAy] (n=khmhm@dsl51B69E9B.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 10:06.45 | zipola | Influential as in whenever they do something people listen. Plus they usually do cool things. |
| 10:07.11 | ScaredyCat | no, they give stuff away so they can farm user data |
| 10:09.00 | doc|home | night all |
| 10:09.08 | ScaredyCat | night.. |
| 10:09.11 | ScaredyCat | or morning |
| 10:09.22 | doc|home | indeed :/ |
| 10:09.47 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: by the way, I can't remember if I mentioned it, but I hope you're happy. I'm gettnig an n800? :o |
| 10:09.55 | doc|home | s/?/. |
| 10:10.19 | doc|home | it's what I've been looking for for about 6 months, and what drew me towards the neo |
| 10:12.00 | hachi | anyone use their neo on cingular for gprs? |
| 10:12.25 | ScaredyCat | cool |
| 10:12.25 | ScaredyCat | you know you wanted to anyway.. |
| 10:12.25 | ScaredyCat | it'd just have taken longer to decide :) |
| 10:12.31 | hachi | I'm able to connect as far as I can tell, but it never gets an ip address... LCP shuts the connection down like 10 seconds later |
| 10:12.32 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-17 10:08:24] <ScaredyCat> cool |
| 10:12.34 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-17 10:08:36] <ScaredyCat> you know you wanted to anyway.. |
| 10:12.36 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-17 10:08:45] <ScaredyCat> it'd just have taken longer to decide :) |
| 10:12.42 | ScaredyCat | sorry, my laptop decided it was going to try and connect via my neo... |
| 10:13.23 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: I did, but I didn't until you or edistar said they were cheaper than I'd expected so I looked at them more closely ;/ |
| 10:14.01 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 10:16.46 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f054166072.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:17.51 | roh | hachi how does your ppp config look like? |
| 10:18.01 | hachi | well |
| 10:18.11 | hachi | I'd say it's an 8 bit text encoding |
| 10:18.14 | hachi | mostly english |
| 10:18.16 | hachi | :) |
| 10:18.19 | hachi | (hold on, pasting |
| 10:18.26 | ScaredyCat | pastebin |
| 10:18.31 | hachi | yes |
| 10:18.33 | roh | do you have any lcp-echo-faliure or lcp-echo-interval set? |
| 10:18.50 | hachi | I tried it with lcp-echo-interval 0 and 3, both don't help |
| 10:18.59 | hachi | I'm getting an lcp disconnect from far end |
| 10:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 10:20.25 | hachi | http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/11546 |
| 10:21.03 | hachi | oh, crap, maybe the CGQREQ clause is causing it |
| 10:21.08 | roh | ppp error logs can be very cruel in hiding the real cause.. i had a sim which was switched off by the carrier and suddnly gave me lcp errors instead of ppp auth errors |
| 10:22.43 | hachi | well, I can move the sim over to a moto slvr |
| 10:22.48 | hachi | and connect just fine |
| 10:23.24 | hachi | also a sony t637, but that phone glitches on the lcp stuff on me |
| 10:24.13 | roh | try lcp-echo-failure 0 |
| 10:24.13 | roh | lcp-echo-interval 0 |
| 10:24.36 | roh | http://damnsmalllinux.org/f/topic-3-26-17437-0.html |
| 10:24.45 | roh | # Most GPRS-enabled wireless devices don't reply to LCP echo's |
| 10:25.40 | mjr | yeah, I recommend that |
| 10:25.48 | hachi | I need to read those gsm docs... AT+COPS is slow... I don't know why |
| 10:25.58 | mjr | I had gprs running (with l-e-i 0) |
| 10:26.04 | hachi | ahh, I'm getting CHAP challenges and ignoring them somehow |
| 10:26.09 | hachi | I didn't even know this thing used CHAP |
| 10:26.21 | mjr | well, it's up to the provider, methinks |
| 10:26.23 | hachi | there's my problem, thanks nevermind :) |
| 10:28.45 | hachi | no deflate? |
| 10:28.48 | roh | do we have working gprs configs in the wiki already? |
| 10:29.00 | hachi | you seem to |
| 10:29.02 | hachi | they're close |
| 10:29.14 | hachi | deflate compression seems busted |
| 10:29.38 | *** join/#openmoko lucas (n=mattm@general-kt-195.t-mobile.co.uk) |
| 10:31.03 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADD02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:31.08 | mjr | the lcp stuff should probably be 0, as said |
| 10:31.16 | hachi | IPCP requesting address... far end never sends me an IP address |
| 10:31.19 | mjr | but I dunno, maybe the TI chip does LCP? *shrug* |
| 10:31.36 | hachi | I'll let you know if it does... |
| 10:31.55 | mjr | may be provider |
| 10:32.01 | hachi | I'm pretty sure it's chip |
| 10:32.14 | hachi | my sony t637 can't handle lcp |
| 10:32.21 | hachi | but it works great with my moto slvr |
| 10:32.29 | hachi | er, the lcp echos |
| 10:32.30 | hachi | I mean |
| 10:32.58 | roh | hrrr.. this is so typical german engineering (ot) http://haus.eversberg.eu |
| 10:35.08 | roh | but cool.. nice piece of work. very geeky |
| 10:37.31 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A55432.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:37.39 | torpor | hubba hubba http://haus.eversberg.eu/richtfest/PICT0624.JPG |
| 10:49.14 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485F55E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:53.08 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 10:53.51 | hachi | ma ma ma.... |
| 10:58.06 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADD02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:00.14 | *** join/#openmoko dinamich (n=damjan@ub141-7.static.adsl.volja.net) |
| 11:02.40 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-79-14.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 11:03.43 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:03.45 | edistar | hello |
| 11:05.22 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:11.24 | horvatj73 | njamnjamnjam |
| 11:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983_ (n=zell1983@host124-122-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 11:30.09 | hachi | screen on neo hangs |
| 11:30.32 | hachi | followed directions on wiki, can't use cu to hit gsm directly |
| 11:31.42 | hachi | buildhost is up |
| 11:37.55 | hachi | do I want matchbox-common or openmoko-session2 ? |
| 11:38.30 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:42.47 | hachi | my ui isn't starting up |
| 11:42.57 | hachi | is there a way I can get ipkg to reinstall all packages? |
| 11:50.11 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 11:57.25 | gami1 | there was a quite big check-in / patch to gsmd yesterday - anybody any experiences with this? |
| 12:01.11 | *** join/#openmoko sandaru1_ (n=sandaru1@124.43.52.94) |
| 12:03.22 | CM | hachi: I was unable to get around the mb-common vs om-session2 issues just using ipkg |
| 12:03.38 | CM | Ended up reflashing it with a new build, and then everything worked |
| 12:04.27 | *** join/#openmoko broedj3 (n=broedj3@gprs-pool-1-020.eplus-online.de) |
| 12:06.00 | *** part/#openmoko sandaru1_ (n=sandaru1@124.43.52.94) |
| 12:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-154-199.bas503.dsl.esat.net) |
| 12:11.53 | CM | :( |
| 12:12.01 | *** join/#openmoko fulgas (n=fn@a81-84-59-203.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 12:12.11 | abraxa_ | CM, let's send him some candy |
| 12:12.15 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@dslb-084-059-122-174.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:12.29 | CM | abraxa_: I think so too, or some icecream or something |
| 12:13.40 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@91.89.138.232) |
| 12:13.50 | PBeck | hi |
| 12:19.37 | ScaredyCat | http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/17/sicortex-intros-sc072-catapult-72-processor-cluster-for-1500/ |
| 12:19.43 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:19.48 | ScaredyCat | wonder how quick you could built om with that |
| 12:19.53 | ScaredyCat | build |
| 12:20.34 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.214.89) |
| 12:21.19 | CM | ScaredyCat: Well, I'm sure it would crash a lot quicker ;) |
| 12:24.44 | CM | Some kind of mips cpu's, can't find any details |
| 12:24.54 | CM | But 200w for the whole box isn't much |
| 12:26.47 | ScaredyCat | no, sounds good |
| 12:33.50 | ruxpin | yay, the neo1973 is here! |
| 12:34.02 | leastsuper | NICK leastsuperrn |
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| 12:39.42 | abraxa_ | I see there are lots of people around. Good. I shall try abusing them :) |
| 12:40.07 | abraxa_ | I have a problem with glibc - an ioctl() call I'm doing is stuck in an endless loop: |
| 12:40.22 | abraxa_ | (gdb) bt |
| 12:40.22 | abraxa_ | #0 0x40d6b10c in ioctl () from /lib/libc.so.6 |
| 12:40.47 | abraxa_ | I installed glibc-dbg via ipkg, hoping it would let me dive into ioctl() - to no avail |
| 12:41.05 | abraxa_ | Does anyone know how I can debug this further? |
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| 12:44.03 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 12:44.47 | roh | abraxa_ hmm.. some blocking vs nonblocking foo? |
| 12:44.56 | roh | <- just guessing |
| 12:46.22 | abraxa_ | Well, the ioctl command I'm using is VT_WAITACTIVE which blocks until the newly selected tty has become the active one |
| 12:46.42 | abraxa_ | Just in my case, it never returns and I need to figure out why - otherwise we can play videos but never get back to X :) |
| 12:47.29 | _diego_ | strace can help? |
| 12:48.09 | roh | eek.. |
| 12:48.16 | roh | abraxa_ why not play natively? |
| 12:48.17 | mickeyl | abraxa_: i still suspect a race condition. what happens when you add a sleep before waitactive? |
| 12:48.41 | mickeyl | roh: that's a gta01-optimization to get full screen video |
| 12:48.46 | mickeyl | the only way, actually |
| 12:48.50 | roh | uuuh.. i seee |
| 12:49.08 | mickeyl | mplayer on qvga :) gta02 will not need that |
| 12:49.37 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 12:49.45 | abraxa_ | _diego_: Interesting hint, let me see... |
| 12:49.52 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: I'll try that, too |
| 12:50.26 | mickeyl | i have heard of problems in the VT switching code when X is involved |
| 12:50.29 | mickeyl | recent problems |
| 12:50.35 | mickeyl | RP can tell a tale of that |
| 12:50.38 | mickeyl | RP? |
| 12:51.16 | abraxa_ | Well, I found this quote: |
| 12:51.23 | abraxa_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:51.33 | abraxa_ | If even xorg has no proper solution, then... yeah. |
| 12:51.36 | mickeyl | ya |
| 12:52.35 | abraxa_ | btw mickeyl, that was #2 from yesterday ;) |
| 12:53.20 | mickeyl | ah, right |
| 12:53.23 | mickeyl | i figured that :) |
| 12:53.26 | abraxa_ | hehe |
| 12:55.26 | mickeyl | robtaylor: do you know whether we build the latest and greatest HAL and OHM in OE yet? |
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| 12:57.59 | Ghiottone | gday all |
| 13:02.24 | roh | abraxa_ you could take a look at the vt-switching code in dfb.. there the same problems should offur |
| 13:02.31 | roh | s/offur/occur/ |
| 13:03.33 | abraxa_ | I did look but couldn't anything - I shall look again |
| 13:03.36 | abraxa_ | find* |
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| 13:30.47 | torpor | yo |
| 13:31.02 | torpor | w00t! got a new debug board! w00t! gonna try to get my old neo working again. |
| 13:31.11 | torpor | it involves tiny circles. |
| 13:31.57 | abraxa_ | If at metalab you should have enough people to aid with holding the cable in place, too ;) |
| 13:35.16 | torpor | yup |
| 13:35.22 | torpor | but now with the new debug board i don't need it. ;) |
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| 13:43.25 | abraxa_ | Oh, I thought you broke the connector on the Neo, too |
| 13:43.58 | *** join/#openmoko leastsuper (n=leastsup@gprs-pool-1-020.eplus-online.de) |
| 13:45.50 | torpor | i have a new neo! |
| 13:48.28 | Ghiottone | torpor, unbricked?? gratz! |
| 13:48.57 | *** join/#openmoko lucas (n=mattm@85.92.165.83) |
| 13:48.57 | torpor | Ghiottone: no not yet |
| 13:49.01 | torpor | i got another kit instead! :) |
| 13:49.16 | torpor | so i have a new debug board, and a new phone availabel to me if i need it .. but i wanna get my old phone working again now |
| 13:49.28 | torpor | horvatj73 loaned me a new devkit to get it all sorted out. |
| 13:49.38 | Ghiottone | a new advanced kit? |
| 13:49.42 | torpor | i guess the vienna openmoko hacking scene is not without its supporters! |
| 13:49.44 | torpor | Ghiottone: yes. |
| 13:49.45 | Ghiottone | oh great things |
| 13:50.07 | torpor | so we have an abundance of hardware here now, and if everything goes well, we'll all have working phones plus one to spare for our weekly meetings.. |
| 13:50.37 | Ghiottone | :) |
| 13:52.26 | torpor | the thing is it looks bad: my original phone just won't start. |
| 14:00.36 | roh | mmh.. ok |
| 14:00.45 | torpor | hey! |
| 14:00.50 | torpor | it looks like i've got JTAG on my busted neo! |
| 14:00.54 | torpor | what do i do now?!\ |
| 14:01.10 | roh | flash uboot |
| 14:01.12 | torpor | i fiddled with the cables, and my while(sleep1) stopped, and openocd lets me telnet to port 444 |
| 14:01.15 | torpor | so that looks good! |
| 14:01.25 | torpor | how do i do that! quick! before i wake up !!! :) |
| 14:02.41 | roh | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader has some documentation |
| 14:03.21 | roh | basically you need to halt it at pc=0 , upload lowlevel_foo to ram, set a breakpoint behind it, execute till there, load uboot into ram behind that , execute it. |
| 14:03.39 | roh | uboot on serial, while running can then flash itself via dfu |
| 14:03.41 | torpor | ok! |
| 14:04.00 | torpor | would it be worth it to use devirginator? |
| 14:04.34 | roh | yes and no. depends if you have wiped out yout uboot_env. if not i would only flash uboot |
| 14:04.49 | torpor | i think i just want a fresh start with this .. |
| 14:04.52 | roh | the devirginator is sometimes difficult to understand |
| 14:05.10 | roh | also you could keep your badblocktable that way |
| 14:05.12 | torpor | how can i quickly find out if JTAG is *Really* working? |
| 14:05.39 | torpor | i can telnet to 4444 and openocd tells me there's a connection. |
| 14:05.49 | torpor | is there some cmd i can do to see that my neo is really there? |
| 14:05.55 | mickeyl | reset halt |
| 14:06.01 | roh | can you' reset halt' it? |
| 14:06.12 | torpor | the cmd returns but i don't get any output |
| 14:06.20 | torpor | j@boko-ubu:~/hak/openmoko$ telnet localhost 4444 |
| 14:06.21 | torpor | Trying 127.0.0.1... |
| 14:06.21 | torpor | Connected to localhost. |
| 14:06.21 | torpor | Escape character is '^]'. |
| 14:06.21 | torpor | Open On-Chip Debugger |
| 14:06.23 | torpor | > reset halt |
| 14:06.26 | torpor | > |
| 14:06.28 | torpor | (sorry for paste) |
| 14:07.13 | torpor | http://rafb.net/p/edO6OK20.html |
| 14:07.18 | torpor | check it out^^^ |
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| 14:14.54 | torpor | what does this mean? |
| 14:14.54 | torpor | Error: embeddedice.c:181 embeddedice_build_reg_cache(): unknown EmbeddedICE version (comms ctrl: 0xfffffffe) |
| 14:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:21.44 | roh | hm.. ive never seen that error messages |
| 14:23.16 | roh | torpor: is the debugboard and the neo connected via usb directly to powered hosts? |
| 14:23.42 | roh | best is not to take 2 sockets directly above each other (can mostly only give 500mA together) |
| 14:23.57 | roh | also the battery has to be charged and in |
| 14:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-71-87.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 14:24.51 | roh | i mostly plug the neo and the debugboard together, the add the batter, then the usb to the debugboard, then the usb to the moko (which switches it on usually) |
| 14:25.31 | roh | when it does not turn on, press the power for a second, to be sure |
| 14:25.56 | roh | in case the pmu does not know to wake up on usb anymore |
| 14:29.45 | torpor | ok |
| 14:29.53 | torpor | different neo, we're using the devirginator .. |
| 14:30.18 | torpor | and on this neo, openocd seems to work fine! but is it normal as part of the devirginator process that the screen goes white and the buzzer stays on for long minutes!? |
| 14:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.231.62) |
| 14:31.20 | *** join/#openmoko horvatj73 (n=horvatj7@213.129.230.12) |
| 14:34.57 | roh | not really.. you should see some smily |
| 14:36.02 | roh | now.. since some people asked: http://people.openmoko.org/roh/workspace.jpg ;) |
| 14:36.18 | torpor | yeah it looks like devirginator is not working for us |
| 14:36.22 | torpor | so i'll do this by hand. |
| 14:36.33 | torpor | does the uboot load_binary usually take some time? |
| 14:37.24 | roh | only for uboot a few seconds.. not too long |
| 14:37.48 | torpor | okay it loaded it |
| 14:37.52 | torpor | and i then do resume |
| 14:37.52 | roh | depends on the amount of data.. jtag is basically banging some serial wires to fill shift-registers |
| 14:38.04 | torpor | but instead of getting a usb-serial device showing up, the screen goes white and the buzzer goes on solid .. |
| 14:38.19 | roh | use the real serial on the debugboard |
| 14:38.42 | torpor | but this whitescreen on and buzzer situation is a bit worrying .. |
| 14:38.51 | torpor | could it be that i'm uploading the wrong uboot? |
| 14:38.58 | Stephmw | roh: love the soldering iron... how's your fire insurance? :D |
| 14:39.38 | roh | Stephmw hehe.. thats only there when i don't use it. standard weller 50 watt tempronic 24V ac |
| 14:40.34 | Stephmw | roh: wish I had so much space :) |
| 14:41.10 | Stephmw | roh: this is my total work surface atm.. http://blog.tangency.co.uk/2007/10/my-desktop.html |
| 14:41.18 | torpor | lowlevel_foo . theres hould only be one for r4 gta01? right? |
| 14:42.17 | roh | gta01bv4 |
| 14:42.37 | torpor | okay the one in the devirginator package looks like its for v3 .. so i'll use the one that looks like its for v4. |
| 14:42.59 | roh | Stephmw uuuh.. thats small |
| 14:43.42 | roh | mine is only so clean since i just removed a pile about 90cm high of paper and hardware some weeks ago. |
| 14:43.58 | roh | i couldn see my tft anymore |
| 14:45.13 | roh | but now i just use the notebook most of the time.. even has some pixels more |
| 14:45.41 | torpor | okay guys .. we're making progress. |
| 14:46.08 | torpor | with this neo (not my broken one - another one), we are able to get into jtag and upload the uboot.. it is true: we need the right lowlevel_foo .. but it looks like i ahve that sorted now |
| 14:46.28 | Stephmw | roh: 1-bed flat shared between 2 people... so I can't spread out like a batchelor anymore ;) |
| 14:46.41 | Stephmw | roh: time to buy a place I guess |
| 14:46.55 | torpor | the question i have is this: once i get into u-boot console (serial), i can write uboot to nand, right? is there some way to do this through JTAG instead? the reason for this question is that we are doing all this with a VM environment, and it doesn't look like we can get to the uboot serial prompt fast enough to prevent uboot from trying to mount the filesystem and boot .. |
| 14:48.15 | torpor | wait: we can use dfu-util, right! |
| 14:48.45 | roh | torpor yes.. dfu-util is the easiest way |
| 14:48.59 | roh | but that needs a valid uboot env. the mtd are defined there |
| 14:49.10 | roh | but the devirginator should handle that |
| 14:49.14 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 14:49.40 | torpor | the devirginator looks like its set up for v3 gta01's |
| 14:49.57 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@78.16.58.139) |
| 14:49.58 | torpor | i can now get into u-boot menu and keep it from booting - shall i then dfu-util to burn uboot into NAND? |
| 14:50.08 | torpor | the problem then will be that the uboot env is potentially corrupt, right? |
| 14:50.21 | roh | do print_env and see if the mtd partitiontable looks sane |
| 14:50.30 | roh | or was it printenv? |
| 14:50.30 | torpor | okay |
| 14:50.34 | torpor | i know what you mean |
| 14:53.02 | torpor | success! |
| 14:53.11 | torpor | we used dfu-util to burn the new uboot, and the device boots up by itself now. |
| 14:53.15 | torpor | so now we can continue with this one! |
| 14:53.21 | torpor | one device down, one to go|! :) woot! |
| 14:53.32 | roh | :) |
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| 14:57.08 | torpor | yay! |
| 15:01.17 | horvatj73 | torpor is the BEST f**k the rest!!! |
| 15:01.25 | horvatj73 | man! |
| 15:01.32 | torpor | hah hah! |
| 15:04.19 | roh | worked on the brokenmoko? |
| 15:06.46 | torpor | no |
| 15:06.51 | torpor | the brokenmoko is still broked. |
| 15:07.04 | torpor | but the *other* moko we had that was bricked is now fixed. |
| 15:07.16 | torpor | it was broken by having a bad uboot burned to it and i have now fixed that. |
| 15:07.29 | torpor | so we're back in good shape now here in openmoko vienna... just one borked neo to go .. |
| 15:07.46 | torpor | if i can debork it, then we have a spare one to use in our weekly openmoko meets here at metalab. |
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| 15:19.21 | roh | just got my call.. will leave withing the next 30 minutes for today |
| 15:19.27 | roh | -g |
| 15:19.47 | torpor | well thanks for your help roh! |
| 15:19.51 | torpor | i'm back to code mode now .. |
| 15:20.08 | torpor | i'm going to ignore the dead neo for a day or two and see if we can't just RMA it for a fresh one. |
| 15:20.21 | roh | have fun. eventually you could try the adapter to the pads when the rma does not work out. |
| 15:20.28 | roh | how long did you have the device? |
| 15:20.41 | torpor | about a month. |
| 15:20.45 | torpor | was one of the first ones in vienna. |
| 15:20.54 | roh | hm i see.. |
| 15:20.56 | torpor | its really a drag that its borked somehow - it just does not seem to come alive. |
| 15:21.11 | torpor | but hey .. on with the code. |
| 15:21.48 | roh | *taking notes* |
| 15:22.08 | torpor | whats up with the current image, anyone know? whats the story with this please wait business? |
| 15:31.58 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
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| 15:43.41 | webjames | Hello, did anyone figure out a fix for the "U-boot failed to finish writing" problem when running openmoko in qemu? |
| 15:44.44 | roh | webjames try a new build.. andrew checked in some fix |
| 15:45.02 | roh | build of qemu |
| 15:45.17 | webjames | okay |
| 15:45.19 | roh | r3434 |
| 15:45.48 | roh | some weird problem with dynticks it seems |
| 15:46.58 | webjames | i've got qemu 0.9.0 |
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| 15:49.39 | webjames | roh, http://dpaste.com/25221/ |
| 15:50.36 | roh | 0.9.0 does say nothing |
| 15:51.24 | roh | make clobber qemu, make update |
| 15:51.30 | roh | the do make qemu again |
| 15:51.42 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADD02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:52.12 | roh | eh make clobber-qemu |
| 15:52.20 | roh | not clobber qemu |
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| 16:33.51 | ScaredyCat | is the matchbox build a crock atm ? |
| 16:34.29 | ScaredyCat | http://pastebin.ca/778467 |
| 16:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko IfChinsCouldKill (n=ifchinsc@p5B106458.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.231.62) |
| 16:40.22 | webjames | i get: U-boot failed to finish writing in 120 seconds, giving up. |
| 16:41.14 | webjames | roh, any other ideas? |
| 16:41.36 | flexd_ | uhm, who's a admin at projects.openmoko.org? |
| 16:41.57 | flexd_ | I tried registring but it wont send my registration mail, and it doesnt work getting it resent (i just dont get a mail) |
| 16:44.29 | webjames | anyone else using ubuntu gutsy with openmoko in qemu? |
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| 16:52.34 | flexd_ | webjames: i will be soon |
| 16:53.06 | webjames | well i can't get qemu/openmoko to work with gutsy |
| 16:55.37 | webjames | just a headsup flexd_ |
| 16:55.54 | flexd_ | hmm |
| 16:55.58 | flexd_ | works well with debian etch |
| 16:56.02 | flexd_ | shouldnt be much of a diffrence |
| 16:56.05 | flexd_ | what errors do you get? |
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| 16:58.59 | webjames | see here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu |
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| 17:06.25 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD9538418.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:07.15 | webjames | these are my exact errors: http://dpaste.com/25226/ |
| 17:07.23 | webjames | to flexd_ |
| 17:10.01 | flexd_ | im doing it now |
| 17:10.04 | flexd_ | we'l see soon :) |
| 17:10.12 | flexd_ | maybe i get the same |
| 17:10.13 | ruxpin | is the status of openmoko in trunk viable so that I can grab it on Monday and get neo1973 to boot? :) |
| 17:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 17:10.42 | ruxpin | I just got the phone yesterday, and our project manager wants it to boot up by wednesday |
| 17:11.20 | ruxpin | I haven't read all up on wiki yet, is it all up-to-date? |
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| 17:18.28 | flexd_ | meh i get same error |
| 17:20.27 | CM | Hmm.. ERROR: Build of /home/moko/openembedded/packages/images/openmoko-devel-image.bb do_rootfs failed |
| 17:20.53 | fgau | CM: same here :( |
| 17:21.50 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 17:23.16 | CM | fgau: I think mickey_away might be up to something, so I'll wait a while |
| 17:23.54 | CM | 17:38 <CIA-32> mickeyl org.oe.dev * r1e012394... / (1 packages/gsm/gsmd.inc): gsmd: add new plugin gta01 |
| 17:24.55 | CM | The problem is ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-ui: gsmd-plugin-machine-gta01 |
| 17:24.58 | torpor | ruxpin: yes, yes, and yes. |
| 17:25.01 | CM | So I guess it's just missing.. |
| 17:25.22 | torpor | ruxpin: you can grab the mokomakefile tonight, do a build (your first one will take a few hours, depending on your build system) and run your own image by monday |
| 17:26.04 | torpor | the image is in various states of disrepair as various components go through big changes. there needs to be a release engineer seat filled at openmoko, but nobody has the time for it (ironic, coz it should be something that takes 10 minutes to monitor every day..) |
| 17:27.19 | torpor | for that reason i suggest you, right away, get a daily build of openmoko happening to catch daily updates.. this way you can, by wednesday, give your boss an honest view of the scene. i hope you conclude: it is rapidly changing and is already quite a powerful code-base to settle into .. |
| 17:27.35 | torpor | things are often borked, but you can use monotone to help yourself out there .. |
| 17:28.21 | torpor | and never forget: working hardware is more important than fancy code. ;) |
| 17:28.34 | anrp | in the beginning, ya |
| 17:29.52 | torpor | right, show me fancy code that doesn't run on hardware! ;) |
| 17:30.30 | anrp | :/ |
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| 17:35.13 | webjames | flexd_, i wonder what is causing it? |
| 17:36.31 | flexd_ | kernel |
| 17:36.41 | flexd_ | read about it on the site :)' |
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| 17:52.41 | webjames | flexd_, damn |
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| 17:53.37 | *** join/#openmoko dread (n=markus@ip-141-31-178-166.selfnet.de) |
| 17:53.56 | dread | hi |
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| 18:12.36 | robtaylor | mickey_away: I think poky uses git head for ohm, so i guess OE does |
| 18:12.51 | robtaylor | mickey_away: in terms of hal, no idea, bet just look at the .bb :) |
| 18:15.46 | ScaredyCat | I think we just hit a milestone |
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| 18:17.04 | *** join/#openmoko agimenez (n=agimenez@200.3.249.194) |
| 18:17.24 | mwester | And what milestone would that be? |
| 18:17.50 | ScaredyCat | openmoko working, qtopia not |
| 18:18.19 | mwester | Ah, but that can't happen, so someone has made sure of it. OM does not build at the moment. :P |
| 18:18.54 | ScaredyCat | I just built it .... |
| 18:19.06 | nbd | OM has never built for me from the beginning to the end |
| 18:19.16 | ScaredyCat | lol -!!! |
| 18:19.16 | nbd | not a single time |
| 18:19.29 | mwester | ScaredyCat: try doing a clean build; it'll fail with missing dependencies. |
| 18:19.34 | ScaredyCat | nbd: did you look at that fon stuff btw? |
| 18:19.38 | dcordes | ~lart nbd |
| 18:19.38 | apt | sends a legion of lawyers after nbd's head |
| 18:19.47 | nbd | dcordes: ? |
| 18:20.07 | nbd | ScaredyCat: what fon stuff specifically? |
| 18:20.29 | mwester | nbd: it's really not been so bad lately; OM has been building 8 out of 10 times for me (I do a complete build from nothing several times per week, on different hardware) |
| 18:20.39 | ScaredyCat | you were going to look at 'fixing' the + so I could put openwrt on it :) |
| 18:21.10 | nbd | ScaredyCat: i won't have time for it until 26th |
| 18:21.25 | nbd | (university crap) |
| 18:21.43 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 18:21.44 | ScaredyCat | oh, ok, well i'm not trying to rush you, I'll be happy when I can do it :) |
| 18:22.24 | nbd | mwester: then i'll try it again soon |
| 18:22.35 | nbd | mwester: i'm not doing this very often, because it takes ages on my server |
| 18:22.43 | nbd | well, not ages, but more than 24 hours |
| 18:22.49 | ScaredyCat | wtf! |
| 18:23.05 | ScaredyCat | what is it, a piii 400 ? |
| 18:23.14 | nbd | an athlon64 |
| 18:23.23 | nbd | but it has only 1G ram |
| 18:23.26 | ScaredyCat | are you building from scratch every time? |
| 18:23.45 | nbd | yes |
| 18:23.49 | edistar | nbd: does the ram really matter so much? what exactly are you building? |
| 18:24.06 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 18:24.08 | nbd | edistar: ram size matters because of the size of the fs cache |
| 18:24.13 | ScaredyCat | from scratch build takes me 12 hours on a cellery 1.66 1gb ram |
| 18:24.23 | edistar | nbd: I have an athlon64 and 512mb and it builds everything in about 11h |
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| 18:24.27 | ScaredyCat | my lappy |
| 18:24.31 | nbd | well, maybe it has gotten faster these days |
| 18:24.38 | nbd | but i remember a month ago it was 24 hours for me |
| 18:24.49 | ScaredyCat | well, it's always taken that long for me |
| 18:25.04 | ScaredyCat | 24 seems a lot |
| 18:25.14 | ScaredyCat | CM has an athlon64 too iirc |
| 18:25.25 | ScaredyCat | ~fish CM |
| 18:25.25 | apt | ACTION slaps CM around with a large trout |
| 18:25.41 | ScaredyCat | how long do your builds take CM ? |
| 18:26.46 | nbd | and some things during the build really made me go 'WTF?' |
| 18:26.58 | edistar | nbd: eg? |
| 18:27.01 | nbd | e.g. seeing qemu-system-arm run while it was generating glibc locales |
| 18:27.16 | CoreDump | hehe |
| 18:27.25 | mwester | Oh, disable the blasted locale stuff. |
| 18:27.38 | mwester | That's for when we actually get the phone, like, working. |
| 18:27.43 | edistar | hehe |
| 18:27.48 | nbd | yes, but why does it have to use qemu to generate the locales? |
| 18:27.59 | mwester | They are specific to the host |
| 18:28.09 | nbd | and why is the default config always omgwtfbloated? |
| 18:28.14 | nbd | :) |
| 18:28.18 | mwester | Now *THAT* is a good question. |
| 18:28.20 | CoreDump | and many targets go OOM when they try to compile it locally |
| 18:28.31 | CoreDump | ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" ftw |
| 18:29.04 | mwester | I've wondered that too, and been told that I can make my own image if I don't like the one with all the bloatware. (Why are we screwing with 30,000 games for Linux when it won't make a blasted phone call!!) |
| 18:29.19 | nbd | crazy |
| 18:29.26 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:29.26 | mwester | Focus, openmoko - focus!! |
| 18:29.59 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 18:30.19 | mwester | And the other thing that makes me insane is the theming. Why on God's green earth are we worried about shading and themes when gsmd can't register with the network reliably? |
| 18:30.33 | Psi | heh |
| 18:30.34 | Psi | yeah |
| 18:30.43 | mwester | We can worry about tweaking icon shapes once the phone can wake up from suspend without crashing. |
| 18:30.52 | ScaredyCat | oh yeah, building binary locales == bad thing |
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| 18:30.57 | CoreDump | obviously different people are working on different problems with different priorities |
| 18:31.08 | mwester | </rant> There. I feel better now. :D |
| 18:31.10 | CoreDump | it is called teamwork ;) |
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| 18:32.18 | ScaredyCat | actually, although mwester is prone to ranting, I do agree somewhat. |
| 18:32.48 | ScaredyCat | get the core functionality working, then overlay the goodies |
| 18:32.49 | mwester | :P Thank you. :D |
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| 18:33.15 | ScaredyCat | I do however think that omitting 850 was genius |
| 18:33.18 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 18:33.58 | ScaredyCat | errm |
| 18:35.34 | ScaredyCat | yeah, I mean who would think that 850 was needed anyway.. |
| 18:35.50 | CoreDump | hehe |
| 18:36.33 | ixs | what is 850? |
| 18:37.04 | flexd_ | ixs: 850h |
| 18:37.06 | flexd_ | mhz* |
| 18:37.09 | flexd_ | the gsm band |
| 18:37.10 | flexd_ | i guess |
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| 18:38.50 | ScaredyCat | yeah |
| 18:39.01 | ScaredyCat | what is is , what use is it too... |
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| 18:39.53 | ixs | ahhh |
| 18:39.54 | ixs | kk |
| 18:39.58 | ixs | never needed it |
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| 18:40.18 | ixs | but when are you releasing the cdma version???????ßßßßß???ßßßß??ß |
| 18:40.46 | CoreDump | lol |
| 18:44.20 | CM | ScaredyCat: Sorry, was half asleep infront of the tv. |
| 18:44.40 | CM | ScaredyCat: At most about 10.5h on my old amd64, so you were right :) |
| 18:45.17 | ScaredyCat | :) |
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| 18:48.54 | ScaredyCat | yeah, I always thought that of you too... ;) |
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| 18:50.15 | ScaredyCat | ~fish mwester |
| 18:50.16 | apt | ACTION slaps mwester around with a large trout |
| 18:52.09 | fish_ | stop abusing my nickname for slapping ppl ;) |
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| 18:53.19 | mwester | Such abuse I get! |
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| 18:54.18 | ScaredyCat | ~blame fish_ |
| 18:54.19 | apt | ACTION blames fish_ (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 18:58.58 | gi-el | canada is not to blame! |
| 18:59.50 | cjb_ie | it's not even a real country anyway ;-) |
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| 19:01.37 | *** part/#openmoko agimenez (n=agimenez@200.3.249.194) |
| 19:03.52 | edistar | are there actual specs for wireless usb? |
| 19:04.04 | edistar | I was reading about wireless usb on the mailinglist ;) |
| 19:04.12 | dread | does someone know Michael Goff, the initiator of the pictureviewer project on the projects site? or what is his nick here in irc, maybe? :-) |
| 19:05.42 | flexd_ | would wireless usb even be usb? |
| 19:05.48 | flexd_ | you know, being wireless and all |
| 19:06.15 | dottedmag | flexd_: bluetooth serial port is still serial port from applications' POV |
| 19:06.33 | flexd_ | dottedmag: but that's hax |
| 19:06.37 | flexd_ | clearly |
| 19:07.45 | Tyrae1 | Hi, do you have problems compiling openmoko? (openmoko-dialer2_svn.bb, libmokopanelui2_svn.bb, libjana_svn.bb, ibmokogsmd2_svn.bb, libgsmd_svn.bb, usbpath-native_svn.bb, ) |
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| 19:12.57 | mwester | Tyrae1: Not those - the current problems are unresolved dependencies when the rootfs is built. I don't think those packages are causing trouble right now. |
| 19:14.53 | Tyrae1 | mwester: unresolved dependancies on the build host or between openmoko/openembedded packages? |
| 19:15.37 | mwester | packages |
| 19:16.02 | mwester | They show up when running task "do_rootfs" way at the end of the build. |
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| 19:45.49 | mwester | Greetings MichaelShiloh. |
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| 20:36.14 | edistar | question, do you chaps use UML in companies a lot? We are learning about it at school now and I am wondering if it is actually relevant |
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| 20:38.41 | MichaelShiloh | greetins, mwester |
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| 20:49.22 | jeddy3 | edistar, i work with software development, i'll have to say it totally depends, with companies, and also depends inside companies...some people like it, some not...many people (like me :P), see the point with it but never get around to using it :) |
| 20:50.12 | jeddy3 | edistar, thats my experience |
| 20:50.47 | edistar | jeddy3: thanks |
| 20:51.13 | jeddy3 | edistar, might be good learning anyway ;) |
| 20:51.26 | edistar | jeddy3: it somehow does make programs more structured ;) |
| 20:51.40 | jeddy3 | edistar, indeed it can |
| 20:53.35 | jeddy3 | UML does not automagically impose good design though, just helps visualising it |
| 20:55.39 | dottedmag | jeddy3: UML is good for exchanging and discussing designs. It just should be kept in apropriate bounds: on sketches and blackboards, and under no circumstances should leak into official documentations in large doses, and actual programming must not be tied to the UML diagrams. |
| 20:55.54 | dottedmag | oops. s/jeddy3/edistar/ |
| 20:56.09 | edistar | dottedmag: thx |
| 20:56.38 | jeddy3 | dottedmag, thats a really good way of putting it |
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| 21:02.39 | dread | hm...i'm getting an timeout with monotone.openembedded.org while starting with MokoMakefile ... is monotone using special port and could a firewall cause the problems? |
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| 21:08.21 | jeddy3 | dread, I also get those sometimes...if I just retry it often works |
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| 21:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko wenko (n=ve7wnk@bcwarn.rfnet.sfu.ca) |
| 21:11.48 | wenko | wow...busy channel |
| 21:11.58 | edistar | wenko: relatively.. |
| 21:12.12 | wenko | Just seen the number of people and could not believe it! |
| 21:12.51 | edistar | wenko: heh |
| 21:13.02 | wenko | I am going to an openmoko showing in Vancouver being done by the local LUG so I was thinking of checking out the channel |
| 21:13.14 | edistar | wow, cool |
| 21:13.42 | edistar | wenko: OM has gathered its followers cunningly ;) |
| 21:13.57 | wenko | indeed |
| 21:14.46 | dread | jeddy3: okay, I'll try it the rest of this evening :) |
| 21:15.03 | summatusmentis | now they just need to produce a phone that will work in the majority of the US |
| 21:16.06 | *** join/#openmoko likewise (n=leon@82-171-189-134.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl) |
| 21:16.22 | jeddy3 | dread, :D what i meant was...if i try a second, or maybe third time, it often recovers...no need to hammer servers ;) |
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| 21:21.51 | dread | jeddy3: as i'm always waiting for the timeout, I#m not hammering the server ;-) ping is not a problem....which ports are used by monotone? http like SVN does? |
| 21:26.23 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:32.02 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 21:33.05 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 21:35.28 | ScaredyCat | 4691 iirc - tcp |
| 21:41.45 | jeddy3 | dread i have no idea, sorry |
| 21:41.58 | jeddy3 | dread, ah, what he said :) |
| 21:42.01 | dread | uhm....port 4691 sounds not good |
| 21:45.57 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve87 (n=fradeve@87.18.196.123) |
| 21:46.54 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@e178080126.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 22:01.10 | hachi | X on my moko is firing up, but the 'frontend'... whatever that is |
| 22:01.14 | hachi | is failing to start |
| 22:01.26 | hachi | so I get the screen saying 'please wait...' and then it stays there |
| 22:01.34 | hachi | is there a way to debug this? |
| 22:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko hexa (n=hexa@modemcable058.106-70-69.static.videotron.ca) |
| 22:06.38 | mwester | That was fixed yesterday; you'll probably need to sync up and build again. |
| 22:07.19 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 22:08.02 | Tyrae1 | mwester: The builds complete successfully? |
| 22:08.28 | mwester | It might if one had a previously-successful build. |
| 22:10.18 | Tyrae1 | hachi: have you tried ipkg update && ipkg upgrade? |
| 22:10.59 | Tyrae1 | try to remove matchbox-common and -force-reinstall openmoko-session2 and openmoko-today2-folders |
| 22:12.36 | hachi | I did those last night... will try again |
| 22:14.17 | hachi | ugh, buildhost is down again? |
| 22:14.28 | hachi | no, my dns is horked |
| 22:19.01 | hachi | it's also weird, when I try to bring up a GPRS session with the same sim card, using a moto slvr I'm asked to do PAP authentication |
| 22:19.13 | hachi | and with the moko's gsm modem, I'm asked to do CHAP auth |
| 22:19.28 | hachi | I'm pretty sure the same requests are being sent, apart from the magic |
| 22:19.38 | hachi | no dice on reinstalling those packages |
| 22:20.54 | hachi | I mean, reinstalling them worked, doesn't help the X startup problem |
| 22:24.01 | hachi | something's looking for 'cpp' during X startup |
| 22:24.16 | hachi | I don't think that's ever gonna fit on the phone's firmware |
| 22:24.34 | CoreDump | smells like e17 *cough* |
| 22:24.53 | hachi | har har |
| 22:24.55 | hachi | :D |
| 22:25.25 | hachi | killing x and then firing up the xsession from a shell gives me the same results, but I got some log messages |
| 22:25.35 | hachi | matchbox-keyboard is firing up |
| 22:25.52 | hachi | maybe matchbox-keyboard is somehow my window manager XD |
| 22:26.06 | dread | okay, the mtn command using an exotic port semms to be a problem there...do you know any possibility to use the MokoMakefile without the mtn command? :) |
| 22:26.34 | hachi | mtn is the monotone checkout stuff |
| 22:26.57 | hachi | I don't know about it much, but my guess is that the mokomakefile kinda depends on a way to get the source code |
| 22:27.00 | hachi | and that's it |
| 22:27.06 | hachi | but that's a GUESS from me |
| 22:27.49 | dread | bad news :( hm...okay, maybe i have to setup something like a vpn tunnel....too much complications :( |
| 22:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko balrog (n=balrog@cjz136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 22:28.50 | ScaredyCat | you have to use monotone, that's how openembedded works |
| 22:30.05 | dread | is there, maybe a way to download a snapshot via http, etc? |
| 22:30.15 | ScaredyCat | no... |
| 22:30.31 | ScaredyCat | you can get images... |
| 22:30.54 | ScaredyCat | but mtn is the openembedded equivalent of svn or cvs |
| 22:31.27 | dread | yeah, but I#d like to look into the build process ;) okay...i see, i have to find a way to get mtn working ... |
| 22:31.29 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:31.40 | ScaredyCat | can't you open the port ? |
| 22:31.42 | dottedmag | ScaredyCat: MokoMakefile fetches mtn snapshot, FYI. |
| 22:31.42 | balrog | many projects provide daily snapshots of cvs or svn through http |
| 22:32.01 | balrog | perhaps OE is just too elite for that :) |
| 22:32.14 | ScaredyCat | it just works differently |
| 22:32.59 | hachi | what DISPLAY does the default run on in this environment? |
| 22:33.04 | ScaredyCat | dottedmag: updates are checked out |
| 22:33.12 | dottedmag | ScaredyCat: it could be supressed |
| 22:33.19 | ScaredyCat | it could |
| 22:33.23 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@bzq-84-108-121-143.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 22:33.32 | ScaredyCat | but you may as well not use the makefile |
| 22:33.48 | *** join/#openmoko jean (n=jean@85-18-201-163.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 22:33.50 | balrog | hachi: :0 if that's what you mean |
| 22:34.37 | balrog | ScaredyCat: i think gcc or some other project has daily cvs snapshots available on http |
| 22:34.59 | ScaredyCat | yes, I know... |
| 22:35.12 | ScaredyCat | mtn doesn't use http. |
| 22:35.14 | ScaredyCat | end |
| 22:35.20 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve87 (n=fradeve@87.18.196.123) |
| 22:35.27 | balrog | it's very handy, when you want to quickly check out the whole tree you unpack the snapshot and do svn update (or in this case it would be mtd update or something) |
| 22:35.33 | hachi | hurrr |
| 22:35.41 | ScaredyCat | you don;t have to convince me - I know. |
| 22:35.47 | hachi | matchbox-panel-2 isn't starting up properly, instead it's getting stuck |
| 22:36.25 | hachi | wait, here we go |
| 22:36.39 | hachi | openmoko-today is throwing a segmentation fault |
| 22:37.03 | hachi | same with openmoko-dialer |
| 22:37.37 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@libervis/athing) |
| 22:37.43 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jaebird@unaffiliated/jaebird) |
| 22:38.19 | hachi | no dbus running? I swear I see a dbus thread running |
| 22:38.57 | dread | ScaredyCat: no, i can't :( I'm on a campus network....I'm just writing a mail to the admins describing the project, monotone and everything to get them to open it....and i'm thinking about constructing an vpn tunnel... |
| 22:39.44 | hachi | do you know the hostname and port it's trying to hit? |
| 22:39.50 | hachi | also, does monotone speak http? |
| 22:40.18 | dottedmag | dread: don't forget about git, svn and cvs pserver ports - sources for packages will be downloaded separately. |
| 22:41.53 | hachi | dread: I'm trying to fix you up with something, if you can tell me the hostname and port it's connecting to |
| 22:42.10 | hachi | to at least get you an initial build |
| 22:42.58 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@bzq-84-108-121-143.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 22:43.05 | dread | dottedmag: cvs and svn are ok, git is a new point to me, thanks :) |
| 22:43.36 | dread | hachi: thanks :), it's currently stopping at the command |
| 22:43.37 | dread | mtn --db=OE.mtn pull monotone.openembedded.org org.openembedded.dev |
| 22:44.06 | ScaredyCat | http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/MainPage |
| 22:45.06 | hachi | ugh, it doesn't even speak http |
| 22:49.14 | dread | right, thats part of the problem :( |
| 22:50.59 | balrog | i haven't heard anything good about mtn so far |
| 22:51.50 | woglinde | hehe |
| 22:51.56 | woglinde | ask zecke |
| 22:52.43 | balrog | there's perhaps a document somewhere explaining that, i'm just too lazy to look :) |
| 22:53.45 | ScaredyCat | iirc it's made for oe, along with that bitbake shite |
| 22:54.50 | ScaredyCat | can't you use an ssh tunnel dread? |
| 22:54.53 | woglinde | this rocks |
| 22:54.55 | woglinde | http://www.schlaupelz.de/SZ42/SZ42_software.html |
| 22:55.16 | balrog | i didn't know that, i think i had first heard of monotone when gpm starte using it |
| 22:55.58 | dottedmag | balrog: It's just the choice. They could settle on mercurial or git instead - all DVCS seem to have very similar featureset. |
| 22:56.21 | woglinde | all scn was evaluated |
| 22:56.31 | flexd_ | Hmm, who's the admin on projects.openmoko.org ? |
| 22:56.35 | woglinde | and monotone made it |
| 22:56.37 | flexd_ | Who can i talk to about stuff there? :/ |
| 22:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko gargonx (n=josh@64.122.31.238) |
| 22:56.52 | balrog | dottedmag: yes, i was just wondering why this choice was made, cause i'm only hearing complaints about mtn so far |
| 22:58.18 | ScaredyCat | its because the documentation is a bit lacking that people moan... and unfortuneately... |
| 22:58.59 | ScaredyCat | the people who know about it wont share the information with us... it's beneath them |
| 22:59.23 | ScaredyCat | generally they just shout loudly about how we are doing it / using it wrongly |
| 22:59.40 | ScaredyCat | but not really why it's wrong or how it should be done... |
| 22:59.59 | ScaredyCat | actually.... I could have summed that up in a single word... |
| 23:00.19 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 23:00.24 | dottedmag | I had a look through the OE wiki, did not find any 'Rationale' document. |
| 23:01.00 | dread | to try it with an ssh tunnel is my next step now :-) |
| 23:03.42 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 23:04.15 | dottedmag | There was just the announcement: http://www.openembedded.org/new-scm |
| 23:04.40 | *** join/#openmoko Tieku (n=Joe@cpc3-leed14-0-0-cust462.leed.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:09.15 | roh | flexd_ i have access to that.. our admin is gismo... whats your request? |
| 23:10.02 | ScaredyCat | i think he's not getting email from the site roh... |
| 23:10.10 | ScaredyCat | you favourite topic ;) |
| 23:10.22 | CM | r |
| 23:10.24 | CM | :P |
| 23:11.08 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-17 16:40:02] <flexd_> uhm, who's a admin at projects.openmoko.org? |
| 23:11.08 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-17 16:40:23] <flexd_> I tried registring but it wont send my registration mail, and it doesnt work getting it resent (i just dont get a mail) |
| 23:12.11 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@225.80-203-245.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:12.29 | flexd_ | lol.Yes... |
| 23:12.44 | flexd_ | oh, didnt see roh say anything |
| 23:12.46 | flexd_ | -lol too :/ |
| 23:12.52 | flexd_ | I tried registrating on the site |
| 23:12.58 | flexd_ | but i never get a mail about it |
| 23:13.11 | flexd_ | I've tried resending 5 times, still nothing |
| 23:13.29 | roh | hmmm.. weird.. it sends me mails from time to time |
| 23:13.37 | flexd_ | hmm |
| 23:13.41 | flexd_ | maybe it's just my mail server |
| 23:13.49 | flexd_ | could someone send a mail to flexd@doombox.org ? |
| 23:14.00 | flexd_ | It *does* work, i've gotten mails since i registered _:/ |
| 23:14.46 | ScaredyCat | 550 relay not permitted ;) |
| 23:15.18 | flexd_ | to my mail address? |
| 23:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 23:15.45 | roh | flexd_ it says it sent mail |
| 23:15.54 | ScaredyCat | no, just a reminder to roh .. ;) |
| 23:16.41 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@bzq-84-108-121-143.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 23:16.41 | roh | ScaredyCat different exim ;) |
| 23:16.50 | ScaredyCat | ehhehe ok .. |
| 23:16.56 | roh | 2007-11-17 19:15:22 1ItSCO-0008H5-MX => flexd@doombox.org R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=doombox.org [209.190.28.10] X=TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32 DN="C=US,ST=Unknown,L=Unknown,O=Unknown,OU=Unknown,CN=oven.oisjersey.co.uk,EMAIL=ssl@cpanel.net" |
| 23:16.56 | roh | 2007-11-17 19:15:22 1ItSCO-0008H5-MX Completed |
| 23:17.05 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key_ (n=Any_Key@bzq-84-108-121-143.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 23:18.06 | flexd_ | roh: hmmm |
| 23:18.09 | flexd_ | Must be my end then |
| 23:18.12 | flexd_ | talking to my hosting guy |
| 23:18.17 | flexd_ | but he says it's working |
| 23:18.22 | flexd_ | and the mail server reports no errors :/ |
| 23:18.23 | flexd_ | wtf. |
| 23:19.19 | roh | can yu check the logs for that timeframe? my records are in CET or something germany currently is in.. atleast it seems so |
| 23:19.42 | roh | hmm.. timezone europe/berlin .. why ever... |
| 23:21.43 | roh | 4 mails, between 2007-11-16 17:02:03 and 2007-11-17 19:15:20, all successfully delivered.. atleast my exim believes so |
| 23:21.53 | roh | from noreply@projects.openmoko.org |
| 23:22.14 | flexd_ | Yeah |
| 23:22.20 | flexd_ | he went into my account and the mail is there |
| 23:22.26 | flexd_ | for some reason my client aint fetching them now |
| 23:22.30 | flexd_ | two diffrent machines too.. :S |
| 23:23.09 | roh | ;) |
| 23:26.05 | ruxpin | how much HDD space I need for the trunk checkout? |
| 23:27.15 | ScaredyCat | it's not just the checkout ... there's the sources.. and about 12GB for the build, though that shrinks again if you use INHERIT +="rm_work" |
| 23:29.06 | dread | allright, the ssh tunnel and an entry to /etc/hosts solved the first problem, now i got make setup running :-) |
| 23:29.38 | dread | next step follows tomorrow, thank you for your help :-) |
| 23:30.00 | ScaredyCat | the bad news... |
| 23:30.11 | ScaredyCat | it'll fail to build.. |
| 23:31.37 | dread | :( |
| 23:31.59 | dread | because of an update? |
| 23:32.01 | ScaredyCat | you'll need to update... there's a broken dependancy atm |
| 23:32.08 | dread | ah, allriht |
| 23:32.11 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 23:32.18 | ScaredyCat | but someone needs to fix it |
| 23:32.24 | dread | should be okay as i know "how" by now ;-) |
| 23:32.30 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 23:33.43 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@220-245-23-46.free.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:35.11 | flexd_ | i think i found my problem |
| 23:35.16 | flexd_ | somebody broke catch-all :/ |
| 23:35.38 | ScaredyCat | catch-all is a spam invite... |
| 23:36.19 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 23:36.22 | ScaredyCat | I used to get 2500 a day with catch-all turned on :( |
| 23:36.52 | flexd_ | lol... |
| 23:36.55 | flexd_ | ScaredyCat: i invite spam |
| 23:37.08 | flexd_ | whenever i need to register somewhere shady i just do sitename@doombox.org |
| 23:37.23 | ScaredyCat | I can forward it if you like :) |
| 23:37.27 | flexd_ | and when they get annoying with spam i just add them to the ignore list :< |
| 23:37.40 | flexd_ | ScaredyCat: no, i will have to add stuff to ignore lists then :( |
| 23:38.00 | ScaredyCat | yes, but spammers are catching on, so you'll get mail to: |
| 23:38.02 | ScaredyCat | fdgGFG@doombox.org |
| 23:38.08 | ScaredyCat | GordonSmith@doombox.org |
| 23:38.14 | ScaredyCat | JoeEvans@@doombox.org |
| 23:38.16 | ScaredyCat | etc |
| 23:38.46 | ScaredyCat | I think they just threw a book of names at my email address :( |
| 23:38.53 | ScaredyCat | mailserver |
| 23:39.49 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa[AwAy] (n=khmhm@dsl51B66462.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 23:40.30 | *** join/#openmoko zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 23:43.14 | flexd_ | hehe |
| 23:43.26 | Aria | They do that. |
| 23:44.42 | flexd_ | My domain isnt exactly the most visited thing |
| 23:44.42 | flexd_ | so |
| 23:44.47 | flexd_ | i'm pretty non-spammed |
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