| 00:00.29 | abraxa_ | sandsmark: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/mockups/ and http://scap.linuxtogo.org |
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| 00:01.48 | abraxa_ | (do take note however, that the mockups might partially be out of date) |
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| 03:03.18 | Guest | hello? |
| 03:03.35 | anrp | the guest appears |
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| 03:05.52 | Guest | ok can someone tell me where to get help with using hd moores code for the iphone? |
| 03:06.47 | Guest | not all at one time guys |
| 03:07.16 | cjb_ie | why not ask about android while you're at it ;-) |
| 03:08.08 | SpeedEvil | Android on Iphone! |
| 03:08.14 | anrp | this is .. probably the wrong place |
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| 05:38.29 | atul | ckn_2k2, hi |
| 05:38.41 | ckn_2k2 | hello |
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| 07:08.26 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:30.05 | torpor | hello |
| 07:31.15 | XorA | hey torpor |
| 07:37.53 | atul | ChanServ, Why I dont have channel operator access |
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| 07:49.34 | ScaredyCat | did you run that script CM |
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| 07:59.28 | ckn_2k2 | can i have a GSM stack ported to openmoko so that it can serve as a proper phone as like android |
| 08:01.13 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 08:17.52 | ljp | ckn_2k2: qtopia runs on the neo |
| 08:18.40 | _diego__ | a proper gsm stack is already in the GSM firmware modem ^^ |
| 08:19.31 | _diego__ | asd |
| 08:20.25 | ckn_2k2 | ljp:do you have any docs for this qtopia on neo |
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| 08:23.16 | ljp | theres tons of docs for qtopia |
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| 08:32.03 | torpor | uh oh, what is this about? |
| 08:32.19 | torpor | database /home/j/hak/openmoko/OE.mth is laid out according to an old schema |
| 08:32.25 | torpor | try 'mtn db migrate' to upgrade |
| 08:32.44 | XorA | torpor: you changed your mtn version |
| 08:32.55 | torpor | doh! |
| 08:33.04 | torpor | i did an ubuntu upgrade, yes. |
| 08:33.11 | torpor | so should i just do the db migrate? |
| 08:33.26 | XorA | torpor: no, download a new OE snapshot, thats like 20 mins instead of 6 hours |
| 08:33.37 | XorA | www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ |
| 08:33.45 | XorA | get the one for your mtn version |
| 08:33.57 | torpor | ok |
| 08:33.59 | torpor | you rock |
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| 08:39.40 | torpor | so do i just put it in place of the OE.mtn file, or the OE.mtn.bz2 file thats in my openmoko/ dir? |
| 08:39.52 | torpor | sorry its just that i'm a complete moron when it comes to monotone, and i'd like to stay that way |
| 08:43.55 | CM | hehe |
| 08:44.04 | CM | Just replace it, worked for me :) |
| 08:44.29 | CM | The .bz2 can be removed after you've unpacked it |
| 08:44.31 | torpor | can i get rid of the old .bz2 file then too? |
| 08:44.35 | CM | ;) |
| 08:44.43 | torpor | ok |
| 08:44.44 | torpor | ;) |
| 08:45.07 | torpor | looks like its moving along .. thanks for the help .. |
| 08:45.33 | torpor | solution to my crashed neo problem: get another one. |
| 08:45.38 | torpor | the debug board situation blows ass, i might add. |
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| 08:55.36 | roh | morning torpor |
| 08:55.58 | torpor | hiya roh |
| 08:56.19 | roh | what did happen to your debugboard? |
| 08:56.45 | torpor | soon as i opened it up the clip fell off. |
| 08:56.53 | torpor | so there is no reliable way to make sure the cable is secure |
| 08:57.03 | torpor | and then the same thing happened to my neo. |
| 08:57.06 | torpor | lousy clips. |
| 08:57.17 | torpor | and i am *not* clumsy with such things, these clips just suck ass. |
| 08:57.48 | torpor | but anyway, i tested the debug board on a known-good neo yesterday, and it seems that the debug board and cable problem is maybe not the issue, because with the working neo, the debug board can reset the neo when i press the reset button |
| 08:58.04 | roh | i agree that i too do not like the connectors, but i somehow did not manage to break one yet |
| 08:58.04 | torpor | however, the JTAG software does not work with either a working neo or a non-working neo, so i can't be sure whats going on |
| 08:58.20 | torpor | and to be honest i can't spend time hacking on this - it either works reliably or it doesn't. |
| 08:58.47 | torpor | the fact is, as we have seen from others too, the debug board is almost useless. i know 3 other guys with bricked neo's and debug boards not doing the job of de-bricking them. |
| 08:59.14 | roh | i had one fpc where i needed to scratch a bit at both corners since it was some micrometers woo wide to fit into the connector |
| 08:59.28 | torpor | fpc = cable? |
| 08:59.34 | roh | japp |
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| 09:05.37 | roh | torpor just to make sure.. you have seen the pictures at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board ? |
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| 09:07.30 | roh | the fpc need to be between the 'hills' at the corners of the connectors |
| 09:07.53 | roh | and it does not slide in completely but only as on the pictures |
| 09:08.04 | torpor | yes |
| 09:08.14 | torpor | i have studied that page intensely for a week. ;) |
| 09:12.19 | roh | hm.. where are you located? |
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| 09:13.06 | mmontour | torpor: For what it's worth, my debug board works OK (though I do have to unplug/replug its USB sometimes to get openocd to see it) |
| 09:13.08 | torpor | roh: vienna, austria |
| 09:13.31 | torpor | mmontour: that is good to know - i would like to know your setup, what linux distro you are on, what version of openocd you are using, etc. |
| 09:13.39 | roh | ah. well. i am in berlin |
| 09:13.42 | torpor | maybe there is a better chance with windows? |
| 09:13.59 | torpor | roh: i'd consider a day trip to berlin to fix it! ;) |
| 09:14.06 | roh | nope.. we do not have win32 flashing support |
| 09:14.09 | torpor | ok |
| 09:14.16 | roh | yet |
| 09:14.28 | torpor | so i guess i need to do a bit of a survey to find out what version of openocd people are using, what libfttdi, what distro, etc. |
| 09:14.40 | torpor | maybe you guys who have working debug boards could tell me? |
| 09:14.45 | mmontour | distro was OpenSUSE 10.3, openocd was as built by MokoMakefile |
| 09:14.51 | torpor | i see. |
| 09:15.06 | torpor | config file? |
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| 09:15.22 | roh | torpor i built all openocd i ever used directly from the openmoko-oe env |
| 09:15.34 | torpor | okay that is one thing i haven't really fully tried out yet. |
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| 09:15.51 | torpor | i'm using the mokomakefile so i will try to use the one thats being built for me instead of the ones i've downloaded, like in the devirginator package, etc. |
| 09:16.55 | mmontour | I got my config file from the Neo1973_OpenOCD wiki page |
| 09:17.23 | torpor | no tweaks? |
| 09:18.24 | roh | i just copied my openocd and dfu-util binaries to people.openmoko.org/roh/ |
| 09:18.28 | roh | static binaries |
| 09:19.21 | torpor | ok roh, thanks, i'll have a go at it. |
| 09:19.34 | roh | put openocd-fic_debug_v2.cfg there too now |
| 09:19.38 | torpor | great |
| 09:20.20 | torpor | downloading now, will have a go at using them in a little while .. |
| 09:20.51 | roh | you know about the module you need to load for the debugboard? |
| 09:21.00 | roh | debugboard_serial_modules.sh does that |
| 09:21.01 | torpor | fttdi, right? |
| 09:21.27 | mmontour | modprobe ftdi_sio vendor=0x1457 product=0x5118 (from the wiki) |
| 09:22.00 | roh | ack |
| 09:22.08 | torpor | yeah i'm doing that |
| 09:22.43 | torpor | gonna take a small break, come back in 20 minutes and have another go at getting this working .. stay tuned for progress reports if you're interested. |
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| 09:24.34 | tuukkah | i just come back from the us and the lack of 850 MHz support is funny - explains how i had bad reception every now and then ;-) |
| 09:25.23 | Ghiottone|work | gday |
| 09:25.34 | tuukkah | hi Ghiottone|work! |
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| 09:28.12 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, what's new? |
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| 09:38.50 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: quite some things |
| 09:39.00 | torpor | such as? |
| 09:39.10 | torpor | tell us all about it Ghiottone|work ! |
| 09:39.20 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: I did some work on navit (navit.sf.net) lately and the result is the navit_cvs recipe in bb :) |
| 09:39.22 | tuukkah | good to hear :-) |
| 09:39.38 | torpor | hey so we can run navit now!? |
| 09:39.44 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah and have success stories for it. so car navigator is on the way |
| 09:39.47 | torpor | how do we have to set up the gpsd to run navit? |
| 09:39.51 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah yep |
| 09:40.00 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah you still need gllin |
| 09:40.15 | torpor | but do we have to do the chroot thing or is it enough to use the LD_ hack? |
| 09:40.20 | torpor | LD_CONFIG_PATH i mean.. |
| 09:40.31 | torpor | (stupid tab-completion addiction, why doesn't it workin IRC .. gr... ) |
| 09:40.47 | jeddy3 | torpor, :D |
| 09:40.55 | tuukkah | i also read the news that we're getting legal gllin for gta01 |
| 09:41.01 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah the LD hack is ok. also there is no need for gpsd. navit can directly read the pipe that gllin creates |
| 09:41.20 | torpor | ok cool |
| 09:41.23 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah where is it? I heard the same thing some weeks ago |
| 09:41.31 | torpor | i look forward to checking out navit as soon as i can .. i'm a big fan of gps .. |
| 09:41.44 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, you're mixing tuukkah and torpor here ;-) |
| 09:41.55 | torpor | stupid tab completion! |
| 09:41.58 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah oops! |
| 09:42.13 | Ghiottone|work | torpor read what I said to tuukkah :) |
| 09:42.39 | Ghiottone|work | should I say t*: to catch both? ;) |
| 09:42.39 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, this is what i read: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#gllin_GPS_driver_for_GTA01 |
| 09:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.103.2) |
| 09:42.50 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 09:42.51 | torpor | i'm reading everything you write .. |
| 09:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 09:43.27 | mmontour | gllin release has been "any day now" for months. Don't hold your breath. |
| 09:43.30 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah yep. I read it then |
| 09:44.08 | Ghiottone|work | another news is that I have discovered the existence of elf statifier |
| 09:44.11 | tuukkah | well there's a november 13 update |
| 09:44.37 | Ghiottone|work | it is a program that's able to create a statically linked program from a dynamically linked one and the libraries it needs |
| 09:44.47 | tuukkah | wow |
| 09:45.06 | Ghiottone|work | I thought that using it with gllin could lead to a single binary instead of the whole chroot/libraries set |
| 09:45.11 | torpor | that is a great thing indeed. ;) |
| 09:45.28 | Ghiottone|work | I had contacted the elf statifier developer and he is willing to port it to the Neo |
| 09:46.00 | Ghiottone|work | I'd like to have a word from some official OM dev if this is a good thing or not and I'll start working with him on the port |
| 09:46.16 | Ghiottone|work | we need to do it togheter as he needs ssh access to the Neo |
| 09:46.36 | starox | hey, am I the only one who canno't reach buildhost.openmoko.org ? |
| 09:46.54 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-62-30.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:47.15 | starox | Resolving buildhost.openmoko.org... failed: Temporary failure in name resolution. |
| 09:47.41 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 09:47.54 | Ghiottone|work | about the statifier topic, if there is someone with knowledge of the Neo's processor assembler, their help would be very useful in porting statifier to the platform |
| 09:48.06 | borg_ | i started a fresh rebuild over night |
| 09:48.09 | borg_ | at the end it says |
| 09:48.14 | borg_ | Successfully terminated. |
| 09:48.14 | borg_ | Collected errors: |
| 09:48.14 | borg_ | ERROR: The following packages conflict with openmoko-session2: matchbox-common |
| 09:48.41 | borg_ | which one is the package i should choose? |
| 09:49.23 | XorA | borg_: you should updarte |
| 09:49.49 | borg_ | so is this fixed? |
| 09:49.49 | borg_ | ok |
| 09:49.50 | borg_ | :) |
| 09:50.05 | borg_ | never mind |
| 09:50.44 | Ghiottone|work | the last of my news is that yesterday there was the TeleMobilityForum here in Italy. I unfortunately could not partecipate but Tyrael was there and gave an OpenMoko speech |
| 09:50.53 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-115-188.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:51.13 | Ghiottone|work | I still have to know how it was. He was supposed to show navit in action |
| 09:51.50 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah now it's your turn for giving news! :) |
| 09:52.53 | tuukkah | not much news except i tested roaming in the us and bought a 4 gb card for music playing |
| 09:54.04 | tuukkah | it was a surprise to me that gprs roaming works via your home provider with your home configuration |
| 09:54.07 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah oh so 4gb cards work! |
| 09:54.33 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, have there been reports that they wouldn't work? |
| 09:54.43 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah ah so it is not depending on the phone sw |
| 09:55.23 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah there were not any reports that they would work. but there were some bugs that could be either sw or hw related |
| 09:56.11 | *** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org) |
| 09:56.13 | Ghiottone|work | XorA: what if they all start ringing at the same time? |
| 09:56.26 | XorA | Ghiottone|work: luckilly 2 are neos so no chance they ring |
| 09:56.47 | tuukkah | no chance? |
| 09:57.08 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet (n=larsg@ti500710a080-7964.bb.online.no) |
| 09:58.10 | XorA | one is crashed, one has Angstrom, neither have working gsmd :-) |
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| 10:00.32 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 10:01.34 | CM | Ghiottone|work: Nice work on navit, I have to to try it soon :) |
| 10:01.35 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 10:02.08 | CM | Ghiottone|work: Good that the statifier guy replied too :) |
| 10:02.12 | tuukkah | CM, doesn't speak swedish yet ;-) |
| 10:02.27 | CM | tuukkah: Hehe |
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| 10:08.04 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:09.51 | torpor | Ghiottone|work: does navit use public maps, or is there some way to get a map for vienna? |
| 10:10.58 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 10:11.25 | mbuf | SRC_URI cannot be a source directory? it always have to be a compressed file or individual files? |
| 10:12.41 | CM | mbuf: Looks like it, if you check other bb files |
| 10:14.44 | *** join/#openmoko captainwoot (n=petergil@c213-100-41-100.swipnet.se) |
| 10:15.11 | mbuf | CM, so if i have sources generated by autotools, and developer makes changes often from IDE, then it will have to make a .tar.gz everytime to build an .ipk |
| 10:16.05 | torpor | mbuf: just put the individual source files in your SRC_URI .. you can have as many as you like. |
| 10:16.31 | torpor | see for example the SRC_URI in this : http://w1xer.de/OpenMoko_DevNotesDRAFT.txt |
| 10:16.49 | torpor | all files in that list will be copied to the build source dir for inclusion in the recipe .. |
| 10:17.59 | mbuf | torpor, don't you think it will be better to tar it in /tmp in case there are 100 source files? |
| 10:19.17 | borg_ | hm |
| 10:19.24 | borg_ | i get the same problem as above after updating |
| 10:21.30 | torpor | hmm. |
| 10:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 10:21.43 | torpor | mbuf: its up to you .. |
| 10:22.07 | torpor | okay -- debug board guys -- i'm noticing that as soon as i fire up openocd, this happens: |
| 10:22.10 | torpor | Nov 16 12:21:18 boko-ubu kernel: [44514.426414] ftdi_sio ttyUSB0: FTDI USB Serial Device converter now disconnected from ttyUSB0 |
| 10:22.13 | torpor | Nov 16 12:21:18 boko-ubu kernel: [44514.426429] ftdi_sio 1-2:1.0: device disconnected |
| 10:22.16 | torpor | anyone know why? |
| 10:24.37 | XorA | torpor: USB0 is the openocd device, USB1 is the serial console |
| 10:24.44 | XorA | torpor: its expected behavious |
| 10:27.31 | roh | torpor the ftdi has 2 usarts of which one gets switched to jtag mode and directly driven from userspace. thus the uart driver in kernelspace gives the one up. the other one stays your serial |
| 10:28.43 | torpor | ok |
| 10:29.01 | torpor | so that means that this is a normal message and is expected behaviour. but still, jtag communication failure... |
| 10:34.48 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
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| 10:42.20 | Elrond | roh - Your the first in a long time to know brazil. ;-) |
| 10:42.38 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - What's up with me? |
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| 11:04.49 | Psi | anyone else find that if their neo has been in their pocket for a while the touchscreen tends to stick to the LCD and create a weird looking pattern (i assume its the heat+moisture in the air) |
| 11:05.02 | Psi | clears up once its been out of ya pocket for a while |
| 11:07.30 | torpor | okay i've got a working neo hooked up to the debug board - and openocd just sits there. this means that its talking to the JTAG connectors, right? i can now telnet to it or something? |
| 11:08.03 | torpor | okay so now i've got jtag on a *working* neo going .. |
| 11:08.46 | torpor | this looks good: |
| 11:08.46 | torpor | > scan_chain |
| 11:08.46 | torpor | 0: idcode: 0x0032409d ir length 4, ir capture 0x1, ir mask 0xf, current instruction 0xc |
| 11:09.07 | torpor | so: the debug board can be used to do JTAG - *however* it seems that there is something even more wrong with my neo .. |
| 11:09.15 | torpor | the busted neo does not start, or something. |
| 11:09.30 | torpor | anyone know any tricks to get a neo booted - maybe theres some short i can do across pins or something? |
| 11:09.43 | torpor | because it seems like my neo is just plain out to lunch. ;*( |
| 11:11.23 | borg_ | aaahh... |
| 11:11.31 | borg_ | with matchbox-common it says |
| 11:11.35 | borg_ | ERROR: The following packages conflict with openmoko-session2: matchbox-common |
| 11:11.40 | borg_ | and without it says |
| 11:11.46 | borg_ | ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-ui: matchbox-common |
| 11:12.03 | XorA | torpor: now jtag is working did you follow through the wiki how to re-install u-boot |
| 11:12.34 | torpor | XorA: its not working on my borked neo, its working on a working neo. |
| 11:12.46 | torpor | so all this does is confirm that the debug board can be made to work. |
| 11:12.54 | torpor | and it means that the borked neo is just not alive when plugged in. |
| 11:13.07 | XorA | torpor: :-( |
| 11:13.24 | Psi | checked the obvious i assume, charged bat etc...? |
| 11:15.00 | torpor | yes i'm using the same battery that works in the working neo, with the borked one. |
| 11:15.54 | Psi | :( |
| 11:17.49 | Psi | tried booting it without the sim and sd in? |
| 11:18.25 | torpor | yes |
| 11:18.27 | roh | did you power it on and plug the 2nd usb chord for power? |
| 11:18.31 | torpor | yes |
| 11:18.38 | torpor | there is no way to be sure it is powered on however |
| 11:18.45 | roh | ack |
| 11:19.05 | roh | well does pressing reset do anything ? |
| 11:19.29 | Psi | if you put the earphones on and plug them in you get a click if the neo has power atleast |
| 11:19.33 | torpor | on the working neo, when i press reset on the debug board, the neo reboots. this demonstrates that the debug board is communicating over the dodgy cable connection to the neo |
| 11:19.42 | torpor | and i just had jtag working on the *working* neo - was able to halt reset, etc. |
| 11:19.54 | torpor | but on the non-working neo, nothing ever happens. |
| 11:21.03 | torpor | nothing, no click |
| 11:21.12 | torpor | so it would appear to me to be a catastrophic hardware failure. |
| 11:21.52 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-2-25.web.vodafone.de) |
| 11:21.58 | Psi | have a look at the USB plug on the neo |
| 11:22.02 | torpor | ok |
| 11:22.10 | Psi | check none of the pins look damaged |
| 11:22.17 | torpor | none of the pins look damaged |
| 11:22.19 | roh | Psi ? |
| 11:22.29 | Psi | roh? |
| 11:22.45 | roh | Psi would be the first usb plug problem i hear of |
| 11:23.00 | Psi | yeah, im just thinking of ideas he can try/check |
| 11:23.29 | torpor | roh: are you at openmoko? |
| 11:23.35 | Psi | if theres no click when ya have the usb pluged in and put the earphones in then i dont think its even got power |
| 11:23.51 | roh | torpor i am employee, yes |
| 11:24.02 | torpor | roh: okay |
| 11:24.23 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (i=laforge@sunbeam.ipv6.gnumonks.org) |
| 11:24.28 | torpor | do you happen to know if there is some way to hard-reset the CPU, such as shorting a couple pins? |
| 11:24.48 | torpor | because maybe there just simply isnt' any juice being fed the CPU, because the powermanagement chip is hung or somehting? |
| 11:24.50 | roh | there is no harder reset than reset on the jtag |
| 11:25.09 | torpor | okay wait: there is a click when i plug and unplug headphones |
| 11:25.13 | torpor | Psi: good advice! |
| 11:25.26 | Psi | at least you now know there is power there :) |
| 11:25.42 | torpor | so the problem is that JTAG is just simply not workign on this neo then .. |
| 11:26.21 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 11:27.04 | Psi | check the jtag pins for signs of damage |
| 11:27.22 | torpor | nothing obvious |
| 11:27.23 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 11:27.33 | torpor | but the connector on both the debug board and the neo has lost its clip. |
| 11:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 11:28.27 | Psi | the fact that it all works on another neo pretty much eliminates the debug board and cable as the problem |
| 11:28.37 | torpor | yup |
| 11:29.03 | roh | wel.. not the socket on the neo. i cannot tell if it works at all without the clip since i never lost one |
| 11:29.31 | Psi | yeah, anything on the neo side could be at fault |
| 11:29.33 | torpor | the clips broke the moment we touched them. |
| 11:30.05 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 11:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko horvatj73 (n=horvatj7@chello213047095126.4.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 11:31.28 | torpor | are the jtag pins exposed elsewhere on the board, say as pads as well? |
| 11:31.33 | torpor | so maybe i could rig up a custom cable? |
| 11:32.13 | roh | they are. |
| 11:32.14 | horvatj73 | might be a good idea! |
| 11:32.20 | roh | the testpads |
| 11:32.54 | torpor | can you describe them to me, or tell me what the main ones are? |
| 11:33.05 | *** join/#openmoko yoyo (n=yoyo@nat.zegrze.maverick.com.pl) |
| 11:33.08 | yoyo | hello |
| 11:33.15 | roh | you have a green pcb gta01bv4, right? |
| 11:33.26 | rwhitby | wow, LaF0rge is stepping down from the lead system architect position. |
| 11:33.30 | torpor | roh: yes. gta01b_a4 |
| 11:33.42 | XorA | wow news spreads like wildfire |
| 11:33.47 | torpor | and the debug board is "openmoko neo1973 dbug board" - with the j1 and j10 headers removed. |
| 11:33.52 | torpor | and j2/j3 etc. |
| 11:33.58 | rwhitby | XorA: especially when you blog it |
| 11:34.04 | rwhitby | http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/11/16#20071116-leaving_openmoko |
| 11:34.33 | torpor | does this mean there's a position open?! :) |
| 11:34.34 | Psi | id use a DMM to check/find a problem between the jtag testpad pins and the jtag connector pins before bothering to make up a custom cable |
| 11:34.36 | torpor | coz i'll fill it. |
| 11:34.37 | roh | torpor between the debugconnector and the edge of the pcb, when you rotate it upwards you should have 8 pads |
| 11:35.11 | rwhitby | mwester: are you going to step up? |
| 11:35.13 | roh | torpor the labeling is below the connector, the pads |
| 11:35.16 | torpor | roh: yes i see them.. |
| 11:35.18 | roh | 'above' |
| 11:35.21 | torpor | yup |
| 11:35.27 | torpor | those are the jtag pins? |
| 11:35.33 | roh | so there is rxd, txd for serial |
| 11:35.40 | torpor | so i could go from the j1 header to those pads . . |
| 11:36.13 | roh | then jtag 6 pins: TRST TDO TCK TMS RESET TDI |
| 11:36.21 | torpor | ok |
| 11:36.32 | torpor | so it could be as simple as doing this: J1 on the debug board, to those pads, right? |
| 11:36.41 | flexd | uhm anyone of you use ubuntu? |
| 11:36.43 | rwhitby | LaF0rge: sorry to see your decision. hope you can have a more enjoyable time contributing as a volunteer. |
| 11:36.48 | roh | keep the wires short |
| 11:37.01 | LaF0rge | rwhitby: thanks, we'll see. |
| 11:37.07 | torpor | okay i'm going to try to do this today in the afternoon .. |
| 11:37.15 | roh | torpor yes. the 2x10pin one |
| 11:37.25 | XorA | ho LaF0rge no more beering in Berlin then :-( |
| 11:37.29 | torpor | for confirmation: rxd, txd, TRST, TD0 TCK TMS RESET TDI |
| 11:37.40 | LaF0rge | xora: why not? I'm spending much more in berlin now :) |
| 11:37.48 | rwhitby | XorA: you don't drink with mere mortal volunteers? |
| 11:37.48 | LaF0rge | xora: and the NDA's are all still valid. |
| 11:37.55 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@r3au244.net.upc.cz) |
| 11:38.14 | LaF0rge | xora: much more time in berlin, that is |
| 11:38.21 | XorA | LaF0rge: ah thats ok then, I liked Berlin and want to come back |
| 11:38.22 | LaF0rge | xora: did you finally get your machine now? |
| 11:38.34 | XorA | LaF0rge: yes, arrived on weds in the biggest box on earth |
| 11:38.41 | torpor | roh: thankyou for the info, i will rig up a cable today. |
| 11:38.42 | XorA | LaF0rge: thanks for that |
| 11:38.57 | LaF0rge | xora: sorry for the delays, I was too distracted to push the vendor sooner |
| 11:39.05 | torpor | the only question left is what are the pinouts for J1, but i think thats on the wiki isn't it .. |
| 11:39.08 | torpor | XorA: what box?! |
| 11:40.33 | LaF0rge | torpor: packaging of a computer I ordered for XorA |
| 11:40.44 | LaF0rge | torpor: for faster OE builds :) |
| 11:41.01 | torpor | damn thought you might'be been talking about a new phone or something .. ;) |
| 11:41.01 | XorA | two waste sacks of polystyrene beads :-) |
| 11:41.38 | XorA | torpor: well Ive got a new phone if you want to talk new phones, but its a HTC Kaiser so we'll probably get booted from channel |
| 11:41.47 | torpor | heh |
| 11:42.07 | torpor | damnit i just want my gta01 back so i can keep working on code. ah well. i'll get excited about new openmoko-capable phones once i have a release or two to gloat about. ;) |
| 11:43.41 | torpor | actually, J1 pinouts are not to be found: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board |
| 11:43.51 | torpor | so i should just go on the basis of an ARM JTAG cable, eh? |
| 11:44.12 | roh | torpor its arm standard. but the pinout should be in the schematic we released |
| 11:44.15 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@vpnb173.ugent.be) |
| 11:44.41 | torpor | okay i'll check it out |
| 11:44.53 | torpor | horvatj73: i'm going to the lab this afternoon around 3pm.. wanna join me for some hacking on this? |
| 11:45.25 | torpor | horvatj73: fyi, i've confirmed that the debug board can be used with a *working* neo .. got at least into the jtag prompt today, even if it was very flakey, using the working neo i got from phil |
| 11:45.28 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 11:45.45 | torpor | horvatj73: so i'm going to the lab to wire up an out-of-band jtag adapter that goes straight to the test pads .. and then we'll see if we get anywhere. |
| 11:45.57 | torpor | horvatj73: did the new kit arrive? ;) |
| 11:47.20 | Psi | torpor, might pay to check the two buttons aren't shorted on, who knows what effect that would have. |
| 11:47.30 | torpor | Psi: you mean aux and power? |
| 11:47.33 | Psi | yea |
| 11:47.42 | torpor | i'll remove the whole pcb from the shell and check. |
| 11:49.38 | XorA | torpor: you could wire a current meter into battery, then you know its on when current jumps |
| 11:50.08 | Psi | also giving the PCB a blow with compressed air might be worth it to, just incase dust or something is shorting something |
| 11:50.41 | XorA | torpor: then when you finish all this, you can setup the first Neo repair shop |
| 11:51.23 | torpor | i bloody want to write software, not hack on hardware! :) |
| 11:51.27 | torpor | but okay: the pcb is out. |
| 11:52.09 | torpor | question is how to hold the battery in now that the case is not there .. ;( |
| 11:53.01 | BenO | Black plastic tape :) |
| 11:53.07 | Psi | i hate cellphone batteries, they are damn annoying to connect wires too |
| 11:53.42 | Psi | i wouldnt do anything too dodgy with power connections, dont want to short them :( |
| 11:54.16 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 11:54.39 | torpor | okay same results |
| 11:54.42 | torpor | totaly dead neo |
| 11:55.00 | torpor | i think its time this neo went back to its maker ... |
| 11:58.47 | yoyo | is someone from poland? |
| 11:59.11 | XorA | yoyo: hrw is |
| 11:59.34 | yoyo | XorA: thx |
| 11:59.55 | hrw | yoyo: mieszkasz na zegrzu? |
| 12:00.51 | zash | ish bin ein kartoffel |
| 12:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn167240.wlan.jku.at) |
| 12:01.25 | CM | s/is/Ic |
| 12:01.45 | borg_ | but thats not polish :) |
| 12:02.17 | torpor | zash: du bist ein erdapfel |
| 12:02.33 | yoyo | hrw: priv? |
| 12:02.43 | mickeyl | hahaha |
| 12:02.46 | CM | torpor: Sagt man das in Österreich? |
| 12:03.10 | zash | feles nigra est! |
| 12:03.12 | ScaredyCat | is that a potato? |
| 12:03.18 | torpor | CM: ja. statt broetchen, semmel, u.s.w |
| 12:03.41 | CM | torpor: I noticed the semmel thing when I was there |
| 12:03.56 | torpor | confuses the hell out of me. |
| 12:04.08 | torpor | i'm australian, learned german in germany, now i gotta learn it all over again .. |
| 12:04.20 | hrw | XorA: the funny thing is that yoyo lives ~1km from me |
| 12:04.20 | CM | Hehe |
| 12:04.32 | XorA | hrw: shout loader then |
| 12:04.51 | Stephmw | XorA: finally have the box in my hands :) |
| 12:05.00 | XorA | Stephmw: Yay, I hope its ok |
| 12:05.13 | XorA | Stephmw: it should be charged and boot :-) |
| 12:06.19 | torpor | okay i'm gonna give up on this neo and just use the working one i've got. |
| 12:06.52 | torpor | one whole week wasted. ;( |
| 12:07.01 | CM | Sucks |
| 12:07.09 | torpor | yup |
| 12:07.38 | mickeyl | torpor: you still want the new debug board though, right? |
| 12:08.06 | torpor | mickeyl: if you've shipped it, yes. if you haven't shipped it, don't bother. i'm going to get an RMA from openmoko and get it sorted that way. |
| 12:08.26 | torpor | the fact is, this neo is dead. its deceased. its meeting its maker. |
| 12:08.29 | torpor | it is pining for the fjords. |
| 12:08.31 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 12:08.40 | mickeyl | k, i was just about to start digging and packing |
| 12:08.53 | mickeyl | if you need one at some point of time, you have one. just ping me |
| 12:09.00 | torpor | roh: any chance you could tell me how long the RMA process works? i know you probably don't handle that stuff at openmoko, but .. you're the only one i know there who might have a clue. |
| 12:09.17 | Stephmw | XorA: hmmm, either the battery is completely dead, or there's more than just pressing ON |
| 12:09.18 | torpor | mickeyl: very nice of you sir. i shall remember your generosity, and hope not to strain it well in the future. ;) |
| 12:09.43 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 12:09.47 | mickeyl | you're welcome |
| 12:10.20 | Stephmw | ok, charge light comes on |
| 12:10.23 | torpor | my partner on the openmoko project (horvat) has ordered a new advanced kit to replace our busted debug board and his also-non-functioning neo .. and we will just get these neo's RMA'ed, since they just don't work. |
| 12:11.43 | XorA | Stephmw: bugger, the wrapping might have pressed the power |
| 12:11.44 | Stephmw | aha, it boots |
| 12:12.01 | Stephmw | XorA: no worriesm I'll charge it up - how much charge do you think it holds? |
| 12:12.17 | XorA | Stephmw: last I ran it I think it lasted about an hour |
| 12:12.27 | XorA | Stephmw: new it used to last 3 hours on Sharp ROM |
| 12:12.49 | CM | Kind of like a Neo then.. :P |
| 12:12.50 | Stephmw | XorA: ok, that'll do until I snap a new one off ebay |
| 12:13.28 | XorA | Stephmw: last I searched there were a couple of UK companies doing replacements |
| 12:14.50 | ar0x | LaF0rge: ? |
| 12:15.12 | CM | ar0x: You're read the blog post or? |
| 12:15.16 | Ghiottone|work | back |
| 12:15.23 | gi-el | it makes sense |
| 12:15.37 | ar0x | CM: no |
| 12:15.57 | CM | ar0x: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/11/16/#20071116-leaving_openmoko |
| 12:16.02 | Ghiottone|work | torpor: I used osm for my tests. There is a way to get a submap for the area you are interested in, if it is small (i.e. city size area) |
| 12:16.49 | Ghiottone|work | torpor: instructions are on navit's wiki |
| 12:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@213.169.107.101) |
| 12:17.21 | torpor | Ghiottone|work: great to know, thanks! i'll check it out once i've spent a few days catching up on this weeks lost coding .. ; |
| 12:18.13 | ar0x | CM: thanks, is there any coreteam member here I can talk to ? |
| 12:18.43 | CM | ar0x: Several, just ask and maybe they'll answer :) |
| 12:19.45 | ar0x | ok, but it quite "private" business |
| 12:20.27 | CM | Then mail and ask maybe? :) |
| 12:21.21 | ar0x | I didn't any response in more than 2 months ... |
| 12:21.51 | ar0x | and if I have no direct email, it will become even harder to get a reply ... |
| 12:23.31 | mickeyl | ar0x: please give us a hint what this is about and we can tell you whom to contact |
| 12:24.12 | ar0x | ok, I guess I've nothing to lose |
| 12:25.07 | ar0x | back in june, LaF0rge takes contact with a netbsd developer to know if netbsd was interested to support the phone |
| 12:25.52 | *** join/#openmoko gami1 (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:25.56 | ar0x | two developers where interested and he accepted to ship kit to them |
| 12:26.16 | mickeyl | right i remember this |
| 12:26.16 | ar0x | and the story finish here, no news, since |
| 12:26.23 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 12:26.53 | ar0x | I ping roh last month, another developer ping LaF0rge and he said he 'll try to find kit |
| 12:27.06 | ar0x | and also, no news since then |
| 12:27.10 | *** join/#openmoko GNAM (n=xxyyzz@host68-178-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:27.18 | CM | You want to know who got it or? |
| 12:27.38 | CM | Or you never did get it? |
| 12:27.40 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|lappi (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-160-240.web.vodafone.de) |
| 12:27.42 | ar0x | nothing was sent |
| 12:27.49 | ar0x | nothing was ever received |
| 12:28.14 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@newhost71-064.imm.dtu.dk) |
| 12:28.31 | ar0x | and no reply from anyone from the openmoko project, a total blackout |
| 12:29.12 | ar0x | so basicaly, what I want to know is if the cooperation is dead, stalled or whatever |
| 12:29.21 | CM | ar0x: I guess it just slipped through since they were so busy |
| 12:30.01 | mickeyl | ar0x: ok, with the recent developments in structure i can't comment on that. i hope LaF0rge just read this and will comment. |
| 12:30.38 | *** join/#openmoko dexterr_ (i=dexter@ua-83-227-175-53.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 12:30.55 | ar0x | www/win 14 |
| 12:30.59 | ar0x | oups .. |
| 12:33.18 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl ping |
| 12:33.47 | mickeyl | Ghiottone|work: pong |
| 12:34.06 | mickeyl | CM: i already reported on #cia, but it seems they have no idea why it doesn'twork |
| 12:34.57 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl I have discovered the elf statifier program. it is able to procude a statically linked executable from a dynamically linked one from only the binary and .so objects |
| 12:35.44 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl it is a kind of hackish but I though it could be useful for gllin. I contacted the developer and he is willing to do the port to the Neo |
| 12:36.04 | mickeyl | interesting. |
| 12:36.10 | mickeyl | we have a solution using LD_PRELOAD though |
| 12:36.15 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl do you think it is a good idea and might be of help? |
| 12:36.15 | LaF0rge | beware of the license implications |
| 12:36.16 | mickeyl | (using the old oabi gllin on eabi) |
| 12:36.26 | LaF0rge | glibc is LGPL and that differentiates between static and dynamic linking |
| 12:36.46 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl yes I know. I think that starting from that solution it would be possible to obtain a single usable executable |
| 12:37.24 | Ghiottone|work | LaF0rge: interesting issue. |
| 12:37.24 | flexd | mickeyl: Do you know if twisted will work on OM/Does it take too much resources to run on the neo? |
| 12:37.27 | roh | ar0x oh.. sorry.. i did not hear anything back from above about more freephones. |
| 12:37.56 | flexd | Just thinking of it, because twisted + pygtk = real easy network applications and such |
| 12:38.05 | ar0x | we will have to continue on qemu then, thanks :) |
| 12:38.07 | mickeyl | flexd: twisted should work ok. i never tried though |
| 12:38.31 | flexd | mickeyl: I will probably need to recompile it for arm i guess, but i'm jus thinking resource-wise |
| 12:38.39 | LaF0rge | roh: yes, I asked ar0x to send mail to coreteam and I'll then pass it on to sean and ask about the general situation wrt. free phones |
| 12:38.45 | flexd | I've heard it's a bit heavy on the resources, but would be grand if it worked on the phone :) |
| 12:38.54 | mickeyl | flexd: well, IIRC i have added twisted to OE years ago |
| 12:39.06 | mickeyl | so a 'bitbake twisted' should do it :D |
| 12:39.32 | flexd | mickeyl: oh. excellent! |
| 12:39.59 | mickeyl | not necessarily the latest version though, but that can be fixed |
| 12:40.09 | flexd | awsome ^ |
| 12:40.20 | mickeyl | if you miss anything python in OE, just ping me. I'm commited to everything python in OE |
| 12:40.28 | roh | LaF0rge well. i took care and explained everything and the issue just drowned in the stormy waters |
| 12:40.34 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:40.45 | flexd | great, when the gta02 gets out im gonna live in python on the neo ^ |
| 12:40.58 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl to port statifier I will have to work with the developer and give him ssh access. also a person with good knowledge of the assembler could help. If there is enough interest we'll start the port |
| 12:41.15 | *** join/#openmoko etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:41.19 | roh | ar0x i think i can try getting you some gta02 freephones lateron, but for gta01 it is somehow a bit late and i really do not see too much reason |
| 12:41.42 | roh | atlest not enough to push something through and do that again for gta02 ) |
| 12:41.43 | mickeyl | Ghiottone|work: well, i think it's interesting. the actual licensing is another issue, but technically I'd like to see tha |
| 12:41.54 | CM | ar0x: How far along are you using only qemu? |
| 12:43.02 | ar0x | CM: we have a booting kernel and basic device detection |
| 12:43.12 | CM | Cool :) |
| 12:44.01 | ar0x | roh: interesting, is there any ETA ? (just to have an idea) |
| 12:44.21 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:44.23 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl ok. I hope to do some work next week |
| 12:44.41 | hrw | mickeyl: we have twisted 2.x in OE - I merged it from Poky |
| 12:44.47 | roh | ar0x not really. i really would like to know myself, but we cannot give any exact date. |
| 12:45.12 | ar0x | CM: the biggest problem I think is our lack of NAND flash support |
| 12:46.04 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@dsl5402D66D.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 12:46.44 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 12:47.17 | roh | ar0x eventually you can team up with the freebsd guys in designing and implementing the bsd-mtd-and-jffs-clone |
| 12:51.37 | *** part/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@newhost71-064.imm.dtu.dk) |
| 12:52.57 | *** part/#openmoko icman (n=Administ@60-249-22-235.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 12:54.58 | *** join/#openmoko d1 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 12:58.45 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 13:01.00 | mickeyl | hrw|afk: cool, thanks |
| 13:01.16 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@leningrad.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 13:03.31 | Elrond | Hi mickeyl BTW! :) |
| 13:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko a__thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 13:04.16 | mickeyl | hey Elrond |
| 13:04.18 | mickeyl | long time no see |
| 13:04.21 | mickeyl | how are you doing? |
| 13:04.30 | woglinde | hi mickeyl and elrond |
| 13:04.35 | mickeyl | yo woglinde |
| 13:05.25 | torpor | whats the name of the pulseaudio cmd line app again? it doesn't seem to be on the latest image by default .. |
| 13:06.01 | mickeyl | pulseaudio -C |
| 13:06.09 | Elrond | mickeyl - I'm fine, was donig lots of other stuff not related to OM. :) |
| 13:06.22 | torpor | mickeyl: i thought it was like pacmd or something, but ok .. |
| 13:06.28 | woglinde | *g* |
| 13:06.33 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 13:06.37 | woglinde | pulseaudio sounds reasonable |
| 13:06.42 | mickeyl | pulseaudio rocks |
| 13:06.44 | mickeyl | however |
| 13:06.45 | edistar | hello |
| 13:06.47 | mickeyl | 0.9.7 is a nightmare |
| 13:07.00 | mickeyl | and 0.9.6 suddenly decided to no longer load samples for me if built on my machine |
| 13:07.01 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
| 13:07.08 | torpor | hmm. |
| 13:07.13 | mickeyl | which is the major showstopper for releaseing the november snapshot |
| 13:07.16 | mickeyl | i had not found the cause yedt |
| 13:07.38 | woglinde | mickeyl version 0.9.7 of pulseadudio? |
| 13:07.42 | mickeyl | no |
| 13:07.43 | torpor | well as of last week i was working on a nice GUI to a pulseaudio-based sample playback toy, but i haven't been able to keep up with things since i broke my neo |
| 13:07.43 | mickeyl | 0.9.6 |
| 13:07.49 | mickeyl | cross-checking with a build machine where it always worked now |
| 13:08.27 | mickeyl | woglinde: 0.9.7 pulseaudio is a nightmare, since it only works with a brand new libtool, which in turn breaks stuff in OE |
| 13:08.30 | mickeyl | *doublesigh* |
| 13:08.32 | roh | mickeyl we can knock on lennarts door.. i think he moved to berlin recently |
| 13:08.33 | mickeyl | ~lart libtool |
| 13:08.33 | apt | takes out a seltzer bottle and sprays libtool in the face. You know, one of those old-school seltzer bottles clowns have? Yeah those. Anyway, consider yourself spritzed |
| 13:08.42 | mickeyl | roh: lets do that! |
| 13:09.06 | woglinde | mickeyl hm |
| 13:09.13 | woglinde | rename libtoolbinary |
| 13:09.19 | woglinde | and then you go |
| 13:09.43 | mickeyl | ? |
| 13:09.50 | mickeyl | ah |
| 13:09.54 | Elrond | Can't pulseaudio use its own libtool? |
| 13:10.09 | torpor | confirmed: pulseaudio is borked on todays build here too |
| 13:10.13 | roh | mickeyl also you could just ask him directly here in irc |
| 13:10.26 | mickeyl | torpor: really? |
| 13:10.32 | mickeyl | grrr |
| 13:10.35 | roh | mickeyl mezcalero here in freenode |
| 13:10.44 | torpor | mickeyl: build as of this morning |
| 13:10.44 | woglinde | mickeyl let libtool-1.5.10 libtool and libtool 1.5.24 libtool-1.5.24 |
| 13:10.48 | woglinde | that shpuld work |
| 13:11.06 | mickeyl | well for the snapshot i would rather like to get 0.9.6 back |
| 13:11.12 | woglinde | but for the .m4 file and other stuff another dir should be used |
| 13:11.15 | roh | mickeyl i have him on the freephones list, but just after we stopped shipping gta01 freephones.. |
| 13:11.17 | woglinde | yes its a hack |
| 13:11.32 | mickeyl | roh: gta02 |
| 13:11.55 | torpor | how does one get on that wonderful sounding freephones list? |
| 13:11.57 | roh | mickeyl ack. just need to make that happen first |
| 13:12.15 | Elrond | How's gta02 going anyway? |
| 13:12.20 | *** join/#openmoko cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:12.22 | woglinde | torpor um you have to do serval thinks you wouldnt like *g* |
| 13:12.41 | torpor | woglinde: such as? |
| 13:12.58 | roh | torpor beeing cool enough, having done some work which we could use, or just know about stuff and have time to contribute it |
| 13:13.15 | woglinde | torpor install 30x times windows vista, sleep with your boss .... |
| 13:14.16 | torpor | roh: i am trying to get a job in embedded linux world after doing it for the last 5 years, then taking a 1 year sabbatical. i worked on music-apps for embedded linux during that time. i'm working on an openmoko app suite right now that shows off openmoko, as well as my abilities to write cool music apps for embedded linux. so i hope i have some contributions to make! |
| 13:14.20 | torpor | woglinde: okay, you got me. yuck. windows vista. pft1!1! |
| 13:14.28 | woglinde | torpor sorry I hope you arent pissed for this little joke |
| 13:14.32 | torpor | heh |
| 13:14.36 | torpor | not at all |
| 13:14.37 | woglinde | okay :) |
| 13:14.54 | mickeyl | torpor: are you experienced w/ sstem-level work? |
| 13:14.54 | mickeyl | system, even |
| 13:14.54 | torpor | the onlything that pisses me off right now is that my advanced neo1973 kit turned out to be a load of bunk! |
| 13:15.05 | *** join/#openmoko oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B105A9F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:15.13 | torpor | mickeyl: yes, sure. the last major thing i did was port midishare's assembly routines to ARM |
| 13:15.13 | mickeyl | torpor: is the Virus TI running embedded Linux? |
| 13:15.26 | torpor | no, its running a custom OS. |
| 13:15.28 | mickeyl | ah |
| 13:16.12 | torpor | the custom linux work i did for them was shelved in favour of continuing the custom stuff .. |
| 13:16.21 | mickeyl | mmh |
| 13:16.23 | mickeyl | ~lart access |
| 13:16.23 | apt | frags access with his BFG9000 |
| 13:16.42 | torpor | hey .. they're all assembly programmers there. they think linux is rubbish! |
| 13:16.47 | torpor | thats why i don't work there no more .. |
| 13:16.52 | mickeyl | i see |
| 13:17.02 | torpor | but the TI is crap anyway. 4 different processors, 4 different languages. shit. |
| 13:17.16 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-186-53-139.web.vodafone.de) |
| 13:17.17 | woglinde | roh how? |
| 13:17.17 | mickeyl | ya. they had _tons_ of problems getting this thing to work |
| 13:17.42 | torpor | i know, i was there, and i worked hard at all the problems. still some major hardware deisgn issues, but it all got worked around in software. |
| 13:17.48 | roh | woglinde selecting a new dj-set and turning the volume? |
| 13:17.54 | torpor | and you wouldn't beileve how dependent the system is on the VST plugin side of things .. grr .. |
| 13:18.01 | roh | woglinde just using alsaplayer and moving the speed slider would be a bit ugly |
| 13:18.06 | torpor | mickeyl: do you have a TI? |
| 13:18.19 | mickeyl | torpor: no. I went for a V-Synth GT instead :F |
| 13:18.23 | mickeyl | s/F/D |
| 13:18.27 | torpor | cool. |
| 13:18.38 | mickeyl | torpor: how "settled" are you in vienna? |
| 13:18.38 | guillaum1 | hi woglinde |
| 13:18.41 | torpor | i've got a TI, but i never use it. i swore off the virus for a few years. |
| 13:18.44 | woglinde | roh okay I thought on the neo |
| 13:18.49 | woglinde | hi guillaum1 |
| 13:18.51 | torpor | mickeyl: pretty much settled, but its only been 6 months ... |
| 13:19.00 | mickeyl | torpor: why vienna? |
| 13:19.11 | roh | woglinde well.. if somebody would port the alsaplayer-engine to something useful like gst i would be very happy |
| 13:19.14 | torpor | coz my wife is from vienna. we moved here to have our first child, flynn . |
| 13:19.24 | roh | it also can play mp3 and ogg backwards at variable speed |
| 13:19.55 | woglinde | guillaum I am think I can test midpath qt4 port today |
| 13:20.04 | woglinde | yesterday I had some problems |
| 13:20.09 | mickeyl | torpor: i see. |
| 13:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko xiaolei (n=chatzill@ip100.infrahip.net) |
| 13:20.31 | woglinde | but in my bus trip I realized what I did wrong using gcc instead of g++ for compiling |
| 13:20.37 | torpor | mickeyl: should i send someone my resume anyway? i'd love nothing more than to hack fulltime on openmoko and work on the music/media side of thins. |
| 13:21.04 | torpor | would be good to get midishare into OE too, so that we can do things like create a bluetooth MIDI network of devices, and such .. |
| 13:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:22.45 | guillaum1 | woglinde, cool !!! |
| 13:22.54 | mickeyl | torpor: Yeah, why not. It's always important to know people who can do stuff. Please send it to me. |
| 13:23.01 | torpor | mickeyl: will do |
| 13:23.09 | torpor | and in the meantime, i'll work on finishing my first moko app .. |
| 13:23.14 | mickeyl | excellent :) |
| 13:23.15 | torpor | which requires a working pulseaudio. |
| 13:23.20 | torpor | :) |
| 13:23.27 | mickeyl | could you have a hand in debugging that? |
| 13:23.45 | mickeyl | i've seen it bails out somewhere in the sample-loader-code |
| 13:23.50 | mickeyl | w/ "premature end of sample" |
| 13:23.55 | mickeyl | although the sample is 100% correct |
| 13:23.55 | torpor | argh! i've been debugging (hardware) all week! but yeah, sure .. |
| 13:23.56 | mickeyl | and didn't change |
| 13:24.07 | zecke | LaF0rge: good luck and thank you for your passion and labor. |
| 13:24.09 | mickeyl | heh, no worries. just if you want :) |
| 13:24.30 | torpor | burning new image now .. |
| 13:24.51 | mickeyl | if you can see it too, i'm kind of reliefed |
| 13:24.56 | mickeyl | i really thought it was my build machine |
| 13:25.02 | mickeyl | (went to x86_64 from i686) |
| 13:26.26 | *** join/#openmoko hec (n=cjh@unstable.aset.psu.edu) |
| 13:26.27 | torpor | burning jfs now, will let you know whats up with my only working neo in a few minutes .. |
| 13:26.43 | mickeyl | robtaylor: I'm reading the OHM archive to get up to speed w/ the latest developments. I will also meet with KC to discuss OHM and some dbus APIs on munday. |
| 13:26.46 | mickeyl | monday, even |
| 13:26.58 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 13:27.14 | mickeyl | it starts normal here, but i can hear no sound because of the sample problem |
| 13:27.24 | LaF0rge | zecke: thanks |
| 13:27.44 | mickeyl | LaF0rge: you and zecke are going to FOSS.in? you could travel together |
| 13:28.07 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:29.20 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) |
| 13:30.15 | LaF0rge | mickey: I'm going. I've already booked my tickets |
| 13:30.44 | sinbaski | Hi, guys, I am experimenting a new AKA protocol on openmoko and am hacking in gsmd. Any advice about where to start? |
| 13:31.05 | zecke | mickeyl: I have my tickets booked as well and I might even have a hotel |
| 13:31.35 | mickeyl | ah so you have your tickets already |
| 13:31.53 | XorA | zecke: take a box in case :-) |
| 13:32.19 | zecke | XorA: I think not having any accomodation in Europe is fun, I don't think it is fun in india |
| 13:32.34 | XorA | zecke: hide in lrg or LaF0rge rooms :-) |
| 13:32.43 | zecke | XorA: oh liam is coming? |
| 13:32.54 | XorA | zecke: I think so |
| 13:33.36 | LaF0rge | I'm staying with Atul Chitnis' family, as usual. |
| 13:33.49 | LaF0rge | so no hotel room in my case... |
| 13:36.28 | *** join/#openmoko chode (n=chode@pD9E886B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-36-69.web.vodafone.de) |
| 13:42.15 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k559.webspeed.dk) |
| 13:43.53 | flexd | hmm How is the neo gonna be for playing music? |
| 13:44.03 | torpor | great |
| 13:44.09 | flexd | I mean, what kind of quality can be expected if wearing a headset? :) |
| 13:44.12 | torpor | if you mean .mp3 files, it works .. |
| 13:44.20 | flexd | mostly .mp3 |
| 13:44.24 | flexd | aslong as it can play mp3 |
| 13:44.28 | torpor | for basic sample playback i'm finding it pretty decent to be honest. |
| 13:44.39 | torpor | .wav files, 16bit, 44.1kz .. |
| 13:44.46 | flexd | as a mp3 player? (for the future anyway, if/when software gets made) |
| 13:44.57 | torpor | the software is made .. mediaplayer works fairly well .. |
| 13:45.09 | flexd | or would the sound quality of a mp3 song be absolute rubbish :/ |
| 13:45.23 | flexd | I have this huge ass 20gb creative zen sleek brick of a mp3 player |
| 13:46.11 | flexd | and i need drivers and shit to connect it to my machine, and a special program to transfer music and stuff, thinking of getting a new mp3 player |
| 13:46.11 | _buz | sheesh the gtk vs qtopia vs android post is one batch of rambling |
| 13:46.12 | torpor | flexd: the neo plays mp3's fine. |
| 13:46.12 | flexd | but if i can do that on the neo when i get one i wont have to :D! |
| 13:46.41 | torpor | it works fine as an mp3 player today, and i bet the gta02 will be great for DJ apps too .. ;) |
| 13:46.46 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 13:46.50 | flexd | torpor: awsome :) |
| 13:46.56 | flexd | awesome* |
| 13:47.17 | flexd | That settles it then, instead of buying a neo and a mp3 player i can buy a neo and like.. a xbox360 and play assasins creed! :o |
| 13:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60-241-40-217.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:47.34 | flexd | Way to go, only one months worth of money spent in a day \o/ |
| 13:48.12 | torpor | not only that but because its a phone as well, you can play mp3's to your mates .. ;) |
| 13:48.44 | flexd | it's gonna be awsomeness :) |
| 13:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B104B23.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:50.04 | edistar | flexd: if it arrives sometime.. |
| 13:50.59 | tuukkah | what we have now is awesomeness too :-) |
| 13:51.02 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 13:51.24 | Elrond | mickeyl - vienna is a really nice city. :-) |
| 13:51.37 | _buz | do we have any news on GTA02 progress anyway? |
| 13:51.46 | torpor | Elrond: it is indeed, and today it is covered in snow... |
| 13:52.17 | tuukkah | _buz, we always have http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#GTA02_hardware_production_and_qualification |
| 13:52.37 | Elrond | rugek - I think, it snowed already yesterday, no? |
| 13:52.40 | Elrond | Huh. |
| 13:52.46 | Elrond | torpor - I think, it snowed already yesterday, no? |
| 13:52.47 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-1126.bb.online.no) |
| 13:52.53 | _buz | i consider that as "we have no news" :( |
| 13:53.00 | torpor | yup today too |
| 13:54.09 | Elrond | torpor - Last time I was in vienna, I was in that "chaos-like" thingy in Rathausstrasse. ;) |
| 13:54.27 | Elrond | I really forgot the name. |
| 13:54.53 | tuukkah | metalab ?-) |
| 13:55.06 | ScaredyCat | gneeh! bloody mac users |
| 13:55.21 | Elrond | tuukkah - Yeah, metalab. |
| 13:56.33 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-176-147.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:57.42 | torpor | yeah i go there a lot, i'm a paying member.. |
| 13:57.54 | torpor | going there tonight for a little openmoko hacking |
| 13:58.00 | *** join/#openmoko raynet (i=raynet@bb-81-175-215-246.dsl.phnet.fi) |
| 13:58.08 | torpor | \i'm sort of the openmoko guy there right now .. got a small group gatherhing every week |
| 13:58.24 | torpor | i only wish we had more phones at the metalab so we could do more workshops |
| 13:58.34 | torpor | been meaning to do something about that, but we don't have the $$ there right now |
| 13:58.56 | edistar | what is metalab? |
| 13:59.20 | ScaredyCat | !google metalab |
| 13:59.22 | cdbot2 | metalab @ http://www.metalab.com.au/%20class=l | Metalab Wiki - Metalab @ http://metalab.at/%20class=l | ibiblio linux archive @ http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/%20class=l |
| 13:59.25 | torpor | http://metalab.at |
| 13:59.56 | edistar | thx |
| 14:00.15 | Elrond | torpor - Each week? |
| 14:00.20 | edistar | sounds cool |
| 14:00.27 | edistar | I wish we had that nearby.. |
| 14:00.29 | torpor | Elrond: yup |
| 14:00.33 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 14:01.12 | *** part/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 14:01.15 | Elrond | torpor - What weekday (I might come, when I'm again in vienna) |
| 14:01.37 | torpor | saturdays but check te schedule at metalab.at .. |
| 14:01.39 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-1126.bb.online.no) |
| 14:01.45 | hrw | lets check does my neo battery get enough charge... |
| 14:03.35 | Elrond | torpor - Ahh, that sounds good. I'm "usually" (well, IF I am) around a weekend in vienna. ;) |
| 14:04.00 | torpor | we lost a lot of time this week because of broken neo's .. out of 3 in our group, 2 are busted. |
| 14:04.04 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 14:04.23 | torpor | but we got a new one today, and hopefully we can debrick one of the other ones, and send the busted one (mine) back for NRA replacement. |
| 14:05.10 | Elrond | NRA? |
| 14:05.16 | torpor | return |
| 14:05.20 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 14:05.37 | roh | i think he means RMA |
| 14:05.43 | torpor | the idea is for us to have weekly meetings to discuss app development and progress from the broader openmoko community - you guys - so everyone is welcome. but we surely need a few more bits of hardware.. |
| 14:06.03 | torpor | roh: i mean RMA, yes. sorry, my boy is sitting with me, its hard to type .. ;) |
| 14:06.17 | Elrond | Yeah, for me the battery was busted. Need to take some time to see if everything is working with the new battery. |
| 14:06.32 | roh | ok then.. need to sleep a bit.. bbl |
| 14:06.42 | Elrond | Sleep well, roh ;) |
| 14:06.49 | mickeyl | ok, now it gets ugly |
| 14:06.53 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.79.151.14) |
| 14:07.03 | mickeyl | pulseaudio works fine on the other buildmachine |
| 14:07.10 | mickeyl | s/on/if built on/ |
| 14:07.31 | mickeyl | x86_64 as well, but using 32bit userland |
| 14:07.35 | torpor | mickeyl: pulseaudio is busted here too. |
| 14:07.42 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:07.47 | torpor | new fresh build, 32bit machine, ubuntustudio. |
| 14:07.55 | mickeyl | ubuntu here as well |
| 14:07.59 | mickeyl | on the non-working |
| 14:08.03 | mickeyl | debian on the working |
| 14:08.10 | mickeyl | grrrr |
| 14:08.14 | torpor | double-grr.. |
| 14:08.34 | ScaredyCat | torpor: is that a job? |
| 14:08.43 | mickeyl | looks like i can't trust my compiler anymore |
| 14:08.46 | torpor | ScaredyCat: job? |
| 14:08.47 | mickeyl | that could mean 'back to mandriva'... |
| 14:08.50 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 14:08.51 | ScaredyCat | metalab? |
| 14:08.58 | torpor | no its a hacker group .. |
| 14:09.08 | torpor | i wish i could get paid to go there and talk shit all day, but i can't. ;) |
| 14:09.16 | ScaredyCat | oh, thought it was your job, would have been kinda cool... |
| 14:09.20 | ScaredyCat | who runs it? |
| 14:09.20 | torpor | yeah |
| 14:09.33 | torpor | its sponsored by the austrian government, and the core membership runs it. |
| 14:09.46 | torpor | its part of the dot-com funding that the austrian government does each year |
| 14:09.56 | ScaredyCat | that's pretty cool |
| 14:10.00 | torpor | very cool .. but there is somehting daunting about seeing 100 teenage hackers get together at the same time and do cool shit .. ;) |
| 14:10.02 | ScaredyCat | do they have staff? |
| 14:10.09 | ScaredyCat | ie chemistry people |
| 14:10.18 | ScaredyCat | physics boffins etc |
| 14:10.33 | ScaredyCat | or do people just walk in an do their thing |
| 14:11.27 | torpor | its open you can come in if you like |
| 14:11.37 | torpor | no staff as far as i know .. its all volunteer and membership based |
| 14:11.59 | edistar | thats really cool! typical of vienna :) |
| 14:12.04 | ScaredyCat | still kinda cool... |
| 14:12.07 | torpor | we had similar stuff like that in Los Angeles during the 90's .. sort of tech incubators .. but the viennese approach is much more socialist, and sorta more fun ... |
| 14:12.10 | torpor | yeah |
| 14:12.34 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 14:16.24 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
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| 14:23.23 | robtaylor | mickeyl: cool :) |
| 14:23.52 | *** join/#openmoko uniquezhu (n=kvirc@220.232.68.127) |
| 14:23.56 | robtaylor | mickeyl: btw, i'm just about to dump a load of patches for hal that cut the memory usage drastically and cuts startup time |
| 14:24.04 | mickeyl | righto |
| 14:24.05 | mickeyl | in with 'em! |
| 14:24.09 | robtaylor | mickeyl: :) |
| 14:24.16 | torpor | woot |
| 14:24.19 | mickeyl | do we have the best version in OE? |
| 14:24.38 | robtaylor | mickeyl: dunno, this'll be on it head |
| 14:24.43 | robtaylor | *git |
| 14:25.08 | robtaylor | mickeyl: btw, I've also been looking at udev a bit |
| 14:25.11 | uniquezhu | hello all, i'm a new here |
| 14:25.15 | edistar | uniquezhu: hi |
| 14:25.31 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 14:25.53 | uniquezhu | edistar: hi |
| 14:26.12 | mickeyl | robtaylor: anything to make it faster/leaner? |
| 14:26.19 | robtaylor | mickeyl: you should make sure youre using a recent copy and set MAX_CHILDS to 1 |
| 14:26.48 | robtaylor | and MAX_CHILDS_RUNNING |
| 14:27.17 | robtaylor | env var "UDEVD_MAX_CHILDS" and "UDEVD_MAX_CHILDS_RUNNING" |
| 14:28.30 | robtaylor | mm. not sure about what to set for max_childs tbh,maybesomething larger than 1 would be better, worth having a play |
| 14:28.38 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 14:29.00 | robtaylor | by default max_childs is 128 + (memsize / 4) and max_childs_running is 8 + (8 * cpus) |
| 14:29.20 | *** join/#openmoko |uniquezhu| (n=kvirc@220.232.68.127) |
| 14:29.36 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 14:29.36 | robtaylor | n800 has too old a udev, and on startup there's 100's of forks by udex |
| 14:30.17 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 14:30.19 | robtaylor | (oh, and for looking at your startup time, i really recommend using LTTng and start tracing in rcS) |
| 14:30.23 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko mccarthy_ (n=mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 14:32.00 | *** part/#openmoko Stecchino (n=bart@fireext.wenk.be) |
| 14:32.35 | robtaylor | (though this has been in udev for about a year !) |
| 14:32.58 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 14:34.39 | yoyo | question / idea : someone try to start montavista from motorolae680i or a780 on moko :)? |
| 14:36.21 | |uniquezhu| | the angstrom distribution |
| 14:36.30 | horvatj73 | torpor: still there? |
| 14:36.47 | horvatj73 | I dropped off the openmoko set in the metalab right now |
| 14:37.01 | horvatj73 | so good luck warrior |
| 14:37.12 | horvatj73 | :P |
| 14:38.33 | |uniquezhu| | yoyo: there is moko rootfs for a780 on angstrom |
| 14:38.51 | yoyo | |uniquezhu|: where? |
| 14:39.18 | |uniquezhu| | yoyo: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/a780/ |
| 14:39.25 | torpor | horvatj73: thanks man! |
| 14:39.30 | torpor | i'll have a good weekend now .. |
| 14:39.45 | |uniquezhu| | you can found the rootfs, zImage |
| 14:40.38 | yoyo | |uniquezhu|: misunderstanding. I like do start monta vista on moko not openmoko on motorola |
| 14:41.42 | horvatj73 | torpor: I hope so... |
| 14:41.45 | horvatj73 | and me to? |
| 14:41.49 | horvatj73 | tooooo? |
| 14:41.54 | torpor | yeah |
| 14:41.58 | torpor | lets see if we can't get it all fixed. |
| 14:42.04 | horvatj73 | :) |
| 14:42.05 | |uniquezhu| | yoyo: oh, sorry |
| 14:42.28 | yoyo | |uniquezhu|: only for fun :P |
| 14:43.00 | |uniquezhu| | hehe , i a new here, and i just have a e680 |
| 14:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko florian__ (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
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| 14:59.27 | yoyo | bye |
| 15:03.24 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
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| 15:18.07 | edistar | If I get the error: "U-boot failed to finish writing in 200 seconds, giving up." does that mean the u-boot version is broken? |
| 15:18.57 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@131.151.32.230) |
| 15:19.52 | CM | edistar: While flashing qemu? (And it's 300 seconds or?) |
| 15:20.07 | edistar | CM: yep |
| 15:20.17 | edistar | CM: openmoko/flash.sh |
| 15:20.32 | CM | I guess you have just updated or? |
| 15:20.38 | edistar | CM: yes |
| 15:20.40 | *** join/#openmoko hexa (n=hexa@67.70.246.100) |
| 15:20.55 | CM | Hmm.. Lots of people have had trouble with that lately |
| 15:21.47 | CM | edistar: Put the full log in in a pastebin and ask balrog-kun about it |
| 15:22.03 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 15:22.24 | edistar | CM: ok, I will |
| 15:23.00 | edistar | CM: I just did the 'make qemu' the 'automatic' way and that doesn't work either |
| 15:24.41 | Vegar | I get the same error |
| 15:24.48 | Vegar | edistar: let me know if you find a fix |
| 15:25.17 | edistar | Vegar: I used another u-boot some time ago but that doesn't work anymore for me |
| 15:26.09 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@81.80-202-132.nextgentel.com) |
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| 15:29.16 | *** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 15:31.38 | flexd | has anyone seen josch? :/ |
| 15:31.40 | edistar | Vegar: I'm testing a few u-boots, but at the moment nothing |
| 15:32.56 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-115-188.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 15:33.13 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADD75.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 15:35.42 | fgau | flexd: josch is go to holiday this weekend |
| 15:36.16 | flexd | ah |
| 15:36.31 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8D4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:36.37 | flexd | that explains his mia'ness :), i found a solution to what we were looking for earlier, and it works great |
| 15:36.50 | flexd | so he's gonna be happy when he gets back =D |
| 15:39.00 | edistar | Vegar: could it maybe be qemu? no u-boot is working |
| 15:39.10 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 15:39.22 | *** part/#openmoko apaulsen (n=apaulsen@64.122.73.112) |
| 15:39.28 | fgau | flexd:do you have news for the pyPhone project? |
| 15:39.32 | *** join/#openmoko apaulsen (n=apaulsen@64.122.73.112) |
| 15:40.22 | edistar | the community hasn't heard of Sean for ages now, is he alright? |
| 15:41.23 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 15:42.49 | loufoque | does OpenMoko aim to be Android-compatible? |
| 15:43.05 | Vegar | edistar: I don't think it's qemu |
| 15:43.06 | CVirus | Android sucks |
| 15:43.09 | mwester | ??? What a strange question to ask |
| 15:43.15 | mjr | I don't think OpenMoko aims towards anything with respect to Android at this point |
| 15:43.26 | edistar | Vegar: what do you think it is then? |
| 15:43.32 | Vegar | edistar: I'm trying to run openmoko/flash.sh on a machine where it used to work with freshly downloaded images |
| 15:43.41 | Vegar | looks like it's about to time out |
| 15:43.47 | edistar | Vegar: it used to work on my laptop too, but now it doesn't work anymore.. |
| 15:43.53 | edistar | I tried to just redo everything |
| 15:43.57 | loufoque | Android is a development platform |
| 15:44.02 | Vegar | edistar: it's the same qemu, so it can't be that |
| 15:44.11 | loufoque | there could be a few nice applications for that platform |
| 15:44.13 | Vegar | it could, of course, be some libraries |
| 15:44.18 | loufoque | and it would be nice to run them on openmoko |
| 15:44.35 | mjr | Though application compatibility will probably be attainable if/once they free their stuff. Given that, somebody(TM) will probably be interested enough to actualize that potential. |
| 15:44.43 | zecke | loufoque: currently it is proprietary and the SDK license is quite restrictive. So once it is under a OpenSource license one could think about being compatible... |
| 15:44.45 | edistar | Vegar: sure that qemu isn't modified? |
| 15:44.50 | Vegar | yes |
| 15:45.02 | Vegar | hmm.. wait.. |
| 15:45.07 | Vegar | could it be the flash script? |
| 15:45.17 | zecke | loufoque: http://robilad.livejournal.com/22312.html |
| 15:45.26 | flexd | fgau: yes |
| 15:45.47 | flexd | I've found a way to add stuff to gtk windows without freezing stuff :) |
| 15:46.26 | edistar | Vegar: do you have an old copy of flash.sh? |
| 15:46.31 | Vegar | yes |
| 15:46.37 | Vegar | it worked |
| 15:46.39 | Vegar | interesting |
| 15:46.41 | mwester | zecke: Great link. |
| 15:46.51 | Vegar | edistar: svn up -r 1977 openmoko/flash.sh |
| 15:46.52 | edistar | Vegar: can you send me the old copy? |
| 15:46.56 | edistar | Vegar: ah, ok |
| 15:47.01 | Vegar | run that, it worked for me |
| 15:47.02 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:47.27 | *** part/#openmoko LWT001 (n=lwt@116.24.95.254) |
| 15:48.41 | zecke | mwester: with so much Open Foo stuff around, where so much is closed, we should rename OpenMoko to ClosedMoko... |
| 15:48.59 | Vegar | edistar: is it working? |
| 15:49.10 | edistar | Vegar: still going.. |
| 15:49.14 | flexd | Sup3rkiddo: You are the guy making pyPhone right? or was that josch making pyPhone for something you made? |
| 15:49.27 | mwester | hehe! It reminds me of when DEC renamed the VMS operating system "OpenVMS" |
| 15:50.06 | edistar | Vegar: hanging at "pcf_write: charge voltage 4.20V" at the moment |
| 15:50.09 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br) |
| 15:50.20 | Vegar | ah, yeah, I got that too |
| 15:50.29 | edistar | Vegar: just wait? |
| 15:50.40 | Vegar | dunno, I cancelled it |
| 15:50.56 | Vegar | try re-running it |
| 15:51.05 | Vegar | make sure the qemu process is terminated as well |
| 15:51.16 | edistar | ok, I'll try |
| 15:52.48 | *** join/#openmoko smartbhai (n=smartbha@116.68.99.173) |
| 15:53.38 | Vegar | edistar: there are some issues with these old scripts |
| 15:53.52 | edistar | Vegar: still hangs at the same point |
| 15:54.39 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-153-43.web.vodafone.de) |
| 15:54.53 | Vegar | edistar: I got that too now |
| 15:54.58 | Vegar | it worked the first time |
| 15:55.25 | loufoque | zecke: woah. So open. |
| 15:55.51 | Sup3rkiddo | flexd: josch |
| 15:56.16 | edistar | Vegar: yeah, have a look what the difference is between the files ;) |
| 15:58.33 | LetoTo | harald quit :( |
| 15:58.55 | edistar | Vegar: do you have an idea what to do? |
| 15:59.03 | Vegar | nope, no idea |
| 15:59.20 | Vegar | edistar: you could try entering the commands manually |
| 15:59.32 | Vegar | (to flash) |
| 15:59.34 | edistar | Vegar: openmoko/flash.sh? |
| 15:59.53 | Vegar | edistar: do what flash.sh does |
| 15:59.54 | Vegar | by hand |
| 16:00.00 | edistar | Vegar: that's a lot of work :P |
| 16:00.21 | Vegar | edistar: yes, but if it works when you do it manually, the script is broken |
| 16:00.26 | Vegar | if not, it's something else |
| 16:02.00 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone know if torpor had his bricked neo fxed? |
| 16:02.22 | edistar | Vegar: ok, I'll try.. |
| 16:04.14 | edistar | Vegar: do you use buildhost.openmoko.org? |
| 16:04.26 | Vegar | yes |
| 16:05.15 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 16:05.19 | edistar | Vegar: ok |
| 16:08.06 | edistar | Vegar: u-boot failed to finish writing in 60 seconds, giving up |
| 16:08.52 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 16:09.15 | edistar | Vegar: which OS do you have? |
| 16:09.31 | Vegar | Debian GNU/Linux |
| 16:10.12 | edistar | Vegar: lenny? |
| 16:10.45 | Vegar | lenny/sid |
| 16:10.56 | edistar | Vegar: how both? |
| 16:11.04 | Vegar | some packages from sid, some from lenny |
| 16:11.22 | edistar | Vegar: ok.. well, I'm running lenny so I don't understand why it doesn't work... |
| 16:11.41 | edistar | Vegar: do you use a special u-boot? |
| 16:11.44 | Vegar | no |
| 16:13.55 | edistar | how do I use yet another flash.sh version> |
| 16:13.56 | edistar | ? |
| 16:14.46 | Vegar | what do you mean? |
| 16:15.28 | edistar | Vegar: somehow when I start flashing it works, then it opens another process and continues and hangs then.. then when I kill the first process it tells me it has tried for 300seconds, which is not true as it has only been started for about 30 seconds.. |
| 16:16.05 | Vegar | that's probably because the process terminates itself after 300 seconds |
| 16:16.16 | Sup3rkiddo | Vegar: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=937 |
| 16:17.28 | edistar | Vegar: restart the user processes, you never know.. |
| 16:17.38 | Vegar | Sup3rkiddo: I've seen that |
| 16:17.39 | edistar | Vegar: be back in a minute |
| 16:17.53 | Sup3rkiddo | Vegar: oh sorry for the noise then =) |
| 16:18.27 | Vegar | I guess we have to wait for the error to hit the script's maintainer |
| 16:19.10 | Sup3rkiddo | it works here on gentoo fyi, had the same problem in debian.. |
| 16:19.30 | *** join/#openmoko retracile__ (n=eli@adsl-69-149-48-203.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 16:19.59 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:20.03 | edistar | Vegar: re |
| 16:23.07 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 16:23.15 | edistar | Vegar: oO, qemu:fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x38000000 |
| 16:24.17 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 16:24.33 | zoolooc | hi folks, can openmoko run in qemu-arm? |
| 16:24.42 | borg_ | yes |
| 16:25.18 | borg_ | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu |
| 16:25.42 | zoolooc | thanks, that's interesting, then I suppose, so do other linux phone distros |
| 16:26.06 | edistar | zoolooc: good luck trying to emulate motorola OS ;) |
| 16:26.27 | edistar | Vegar: what svn verions are there of openmoko/flash.sh? |
| 16:26.39 | zoolooc | guess I'm not interested in that one :-) |
| 16:26.53 | Vegar | edistar: svn log -r 1:HEAD openmoko/flash.sh |
| 16:27.13 | edistar | Vegar: thanks! |
| 16:29.35 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 16:29.56 | edistar | svn is super cool |
| 16:30.22 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@dslb-084-059-194-083.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:30.52 | edistar | Vegar: brr.. I don't understand why it worked 6 days ago and doesn't anymore now |
| 16:31.32 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@dsl081-134-176.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:35.39 | flexd | does projects.openmoko.org usually take a long time to send a email to me? |
| 16:35.45 | flexd | I registered but i havent gotten a mail yet |
| 16:35.47 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:35.51 | flexd | it's like a hour ago |
| 16:36.46 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 16:36.48 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@208.118.160.90) |
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| 16:48.50 | *** part/#openmoko Elessar (n=andreas@p5B05BC52.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 17:04.10 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-62-30.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:04.12 | *** part/#openmoko zoolooc (n=lucian@p54952CA9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko rcostin1 (n=rjc@75.146.239.153) |
| 17:07.14 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-126-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:07.51 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
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| 17:14.59 | *** join/#openmoko warmi (n=a3c0152b@adsl-75-54-12-238.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:16.06 | *** part/#openmoko bertmatic (n=alberto@adsl150-142.aknet.it) |
| 17:21.21 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 17:25.06 | *** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:25.07 | summatusmentis | what's the default resolution of openmoko? |
| 17:25.30 | edistar | summatusmentis: VGA |
| 17:25.33 | abraxa_ | 480x640 on the Neo |
| 17:25.34 | borg_ | 640x480 |
| 17:25.44 | ScaredyCat | 1x1 |
| 17:26.01 | edistar | ScaredyCat: what colour? ;) |
| 17:26.07 | borg_ | but openmoko runs on 240x320 fine too |
| 17:26.08 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Oh come on. You're not THAT blind yet. |
| 17:26.10 | ScaredyCat | black |
| 17:26.10 | borg_ | at least some apps |
| 17:26.18 | edistar | ScaredyCat: elegant |
| 17:26.36 | ScaredyCat | blaille? |
| 17:26.39 | ScaredyCat | braille |
| 17:26.42 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 17:26.43 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:27.08 | DukeOfURL | any PCB hackers here? |
| 17:29.02 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-228-230.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:33.30 | *** join/#openmoko agimenez (n=agimenez@fbsd.cnc.una.py) |
| 17:33.57 | DukeOfURL | any soldering experts here? |
| 17:34.03 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472_ (i=8472@dslb-084-056-244-034.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:34.15 | cjb_ie | what do you consider expert ;-) |
| 17:36.08 | summatusmentis | seriously... I have a soldering iron... that's about the extent of my knowledge... |
| 17:39.05 | ScaredyCat | hey, it doesn't matter how much solder it takes, so long ans the join works - right? |
| 17:39.24 | edistar | as long as you don't damage the other parts ;) |
| 17:41.20 | Writchie | what are you trying to solder? |
| 17:42.31 | ScaredyCat | hhehehe cool - watch this... |
| 17:43.31 | edistar | ScaredyCat: what? |
| 17:43.53 | DukeOfURL | ok, so I dropped my Neo, and the AUX button popper off the PCB. |
| 17:44.02 | DukeOfURL | Now I have to solder it back on. |
| 17:44.20 | DukeOfURL | the switch is *very* small, with four connectors |
| 17:44.20 | edistar | DukeOfURL: so you want to know how? good luck.. |
| 17:44.38 | edistar | DukeOfURL: from which height did it fall down? |
| 17:45.28 | ScaredyCat | I jues went from wireless to wired edistar |
| 17:45.30 | ScaredyCat | just |
| 17:46.02 | Sup3rkiddo | speaking of falls, the back cover pops too easily for comfort |
| 17:46.03 | DukeOfURL | edistar: about 18". the USB cable was attached, which caused it to fall on the AUX button corner. |
| 17:46.05 | edistar | ScaredyCat: but you didn't go offline... unfair, how do you do that? |
| 17:46.13 | ScaredyCat | magic |
| 17:46.15 | ScaredyCat | :D |
| 17:46.22 | edistar | ScaredyCat: come on ;) |
| 17:46.23 | DukeOfURL | the AUX switch is about 4mm square |
| 17:46.24 | ScaredyCat | or dircproxy |
| 17:47.18 | DukeOfURL | I assume a wave soldering machine was used during manufacture... |
| 17:47.18 | edistar | ScaredyCat: pff...I thought you had a method to automagically switch interface and gw so connection would stay |
| 17:47.22 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: first I'd want to check the switch functions. |
| 17:47.41 | DukeOfURL | yes, I need to know SPST or DPDT |
| 17:47.47 | DukeOfURL | four connectors |
| 17:47.48 | *** join/#openmoko amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) |
| 17:47.57 | ScaredyCat | no, I have an automagical way of switching and still staying connected :) |
| 17:48.16 | *** part/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 17:48.27 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: it's probably spst with two sets of two pins wired togetehr |
| 17:48.37 | DukeOfURL | checking |
| 17:48.56 | edistar | ScaredyCat: also possible by just having irc running on a server in screen ;) |
| 17:49.43 | ScaredyCat | yes, but this automatically runs through what happened when I was disconnected until I reconnect |
| 17:49.44 | Writchie | DukeOfURL: hot air and solder paste would be best but looking at the photo you could do it with a pencil tip |
| 17:49.47 | ScaredyCat | eg: |
| 17:49.52 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.233.225) |
| 17:50.01 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-16 17:43:19] <edistar> [18:43] ScaredyCat: what? |
| 17:50.02 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-16 17:43:19] <DukeOfURL> [18:43] ok, so I dropped my Neo, and the AUX button popper off the PCB. |
| 17:50.02 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-16 17:43:19] <DukeOfURL> [18:44] Now I have to solder it back on. |
| 17:50.14 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@adsl-68-93-115-212.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 17:50.28 | ScaredyCat | and it'll do it for all channels |
| 17:50.35 | edistar | ScaredyCat: not bad, but you get a lot of nonsense too ;) |
| 17:50.46 | ScaredyCat | I love nonsense :) |
| 17:50.55 | mwester | nonsense! |
| 17:51.24 | cjb_ie | DukeOfURL: wouldn't be wave soldering for anything in a phone - wave is only for pin through hole |
| 17:51.42 | ScaredyCat | menhd£! |
| 17:51.42 | cjb_ie | anything small enough to be in a modern phone is surface mount |
| 17:52.08 | cjb_ie | solder paste is printed onto the bare PCB through a stencil, and components placed upon that |
| 17:52.33 | SpeedEvil | ôthen you put it in a toaster-oven |
| 17:52.36 | cjb_ie | board then goes through reflow, and as the solder paste melts the surface tension pulls each component into place if it wasn't mounted straight |
| 17:52.39 | SpeedEvil | and wait till the flux melts |
| 17:52.40 | DukeOfURL | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:52.42 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@adsl-69-149-36-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 17:53.03 | cjb_ie | four pins should be no trouble to hand solder if you've a small enough soldering iron |
| 17:53.07 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 17:53.18 | DukeOfURL | with 20/20 vision |
| 17:53.26 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 17:53.45 | DukeOfURL | it's soooo small I can hold the leads on the connectors and push the switch |
| 17:53.51 | DukeOfURL | i can't |
| 17:54.05 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x_ (n=alvar@80-218-189-28.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:54.21 | SpeedEvil | this is why the chinese have bred techs with 4 arms. |
| 17:54.23 | CoreDump | *SMD |
| 17:54.32 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: and small fingers |
| 17:54.58 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54952CA9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:55.23 | Writchie | DukeOfURL: its a snap with a hot air re-work station - do you know anybody |
| 17:55.38 | DukeOfURL | nope |
| 17:55.41 | SpeedEvil | IMO - it's probably actually easier with a fine-tipped iron |
| 17:55.49 | SpeedEvil | in a well lit place |
| 17:56.29 | DukeOfURL | I wouldn't want to put the display in a toaster oven... |
| 17:56.33 | SpeedEvil | you tin the pads with some fine solder, then hold with tweezers the switch onto one pad/pin, and then reflow it |
| 17:56.55 | SpeedEvil | then press it down using that pin as a hinge gently and do the other three |
| 17:57.14 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: no - this is for making a new complete board only |
| 17:59.06 | *** join/#openmoko brundlefliege_ (n=brundlef@h081217022198.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 18:00.41 | DukeOfURL | switch seems to be ok--SPST with four contacts |
| 18:00.49 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 18:00.55 | SpeedEvil | They usually are IME |
| 18:01.02 | SpeedEvil | but, it's worth checking |
| 18:01.54 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: what boards are you making? |
| 18:02.13 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: random stuff |
| 18:02.25 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: basically just process testing at the moment |
| 18:02.28 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 18:03.26 | Writchie|lunch | SpeedEvil: ya gonna try BGA? |
| 18:04.02 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 18:04.19 | Writchie|lunch | what size? |
| 18:04.32 | Writchie|lunch | /size/pitch/ |
| 18:07.06 | SpeedEvil | Need to see what I can get. |
| 18:07.19 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAB0D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:08.37 | agimenez | Does anyone knows where I can get the gllin executable? |
| 18:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8D4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:10.05 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5734D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:10.25 | CoreDump | agimenez: you can't legally |
| 18:13.45 | mccarthy_ | I am trying to run angstrom-based openmoko stuff on my h5000 |
| 18:13.58 | mccarthy_ | I keep getting dbus errors ... |
| 18:14.21 | mccarthy_ | Client failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon: |
| 18:14.21 | mccarthy_ | Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session |
| 18:14.21 | mccarthy_ | GConf Error: No D-BUS daemon running |
| 18:14.26 | mccarthy_ | any ideas? |
| 18:14.48 | mccarthy_ | (dbus-daemon and gconfd-2 are both running |
| 18:20.53 | *** join/#openmoko FuL|OUT (n=fn@a81-84-59-203.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 18:32.18 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:34.30 | abraxa_ | mccarthy_: When do you get these messages? |
| 18:36.46 | mmp | mccarthy_: hello:) |
| 18:38.04 | mmp | mccarthy_: try e.g. dbus-launch dbus-monitor |
| 18:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:42.53 | abraxa_ | mccarthy_: The only things I can think of are: #1 d-bus failed to launch or #2 you started d-bus through ssh and the d-bus session somehow stayed local to that ssh session |
| 18:44.18 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n__ (n=parag0n@87.194.100.170) |
| 18:47.08 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B1D83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:50.39 | *** part/#openmoko agimenez (n=agimenez@fbsd.cnc.una.py) |
| 18:51.24 | mccarthy_ | abraxa_, hmmm that might make sense ... |
| 18:51.29 | mccarthy_ | mmp, hi |
| 18:52.04 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.177) |
| 18:52.44 | mccarthy_ | abraxa_, I am booting |
| 18:52.54 | mccarthy_ | getting nothing useful on the h5000 |
| 18:53.34 | mccarthy_ | (dbus is starting on its own at boot, but apparently matchbox's session file is either not being used or is failing |
| 18:54.11 | mccarthy_ | then I am trying to run things like openmoko-dates from a serial connection where I have tried to change the DISPLAY variable to be local using 'export DISPLAY=:0.0' |
| 18:55.14 | mccarthy_ | hmm |
| 18:55.25 | mccarthy_ | maybe I just have a sessions scripts problem |
| 18:55.55 | mccarthy_ | how do I know what runlevel I am on? is 2 the "X" runlevel for angstrom ...? |
| 18:57.47 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 18:59.45 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@81.80-202-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:00.08 | don-o | 'who -r' => run-level 3 |
| 19:00.19 | don-o | at least on desktop linux boxes |
| 19:00.53 | mccarthy_ | hmm |
| 19:01.00 | mccarthy_ | seems that busybox doesn't like -r |
| 19:01.16 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.118) |
| 19:01.19 | mccarthy_ | I think I recall run-level 2 |
| 19:01.27 | mccarthy_ | hmm |
| 19:01.32 | Vegar | run-level 2 on debian |
| 19:01.32 | mccarthy_ | typing runlevel tells me 5 |
| 19:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:04.23 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 19:05.09 | *** join/#openmoko chrisb (n=chrisb@pool-96-227-99-51.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:05.19 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44b520.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:10.41 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A7421.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 19:11.03 | hhf423 | moin |
| 19:14.16 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 19:14.37 | ewon | announcement? |
| 19:14.38 | ewon | url? |
| 19:15.13 | hhf423 | http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/11/16/#20071116-leaving_openmoko |
| 19:15.44 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 19:15.56 | edistar|away | ewon: check is blog |
| 19:15.59 | edistar|away | s/is/his |
| 19:17.00 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x_ (n=alvar@80-218-189-28.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:18.17 | ewon | shit |
| 19:18.46 | hhf423 | we'll see if thats bad in a few months or so |
| 19:19.17 | hhf423 | GTA02 should not suffer from this, should it? |
| 19:20.52 | hhf423 | hmmm, I wonder if the thing will ever finish booting...? |
| 19:21.49 | hhf423 | there should be music playing while the phone boots, with a nice, comforting voice saying "your phone is booting, please hold the line..." |
| 19:21.50 | *** join/#openmoko dinamich (n=damjan@ub141-7.static.adsl.volja.net) |
| 19:22.04 | borg_ | mh.. actually suspend to ram works now for me |
| 19:22.05 | borg_ | nice |
| 19:22.27 | hhf423 | borg_: on your pc or on your phone? |
| 19:22.32 | borg_ | on the phone ;) |
| 19:22.33 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 19:22.51 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@79.0.122.55) |
| 19:23.55 | hhf423 | does it wake on call? |
| 19:24.05 | borg_ | yes |
| 19:24.14 | borg_ | but the dialer doesnt pop up |
| 19:24.28 | hhf423 | does the current snapshot do that or is fiddling required? |
| 19:24.51 | borg_ | my snapshot is acutally pretty old |
| 19:24.58 | borg_ | i update it with ipkg |
| 19:25.16 | hhf423 | so you have an older kernel? |
| 19:25.19 | borg_ | i updated the kernel recently because ipkg screwd it |
| 19:25.24 | hhf423 | ah |
| 19:25.29 | borg_ | no, kernel is newest |
| 19:25.49 | hhf423 | well, ipkg should keep the system current |
| 19:26.05 | borg_ | but i think ipkg should be able to update the kernel too, or am i wrong there? |
| 19:27.33 | hhf423 | hmm, x does not come up |
| 19:27.38 | borg_ | :( |
| 19:27.51 | hhf423 | bizarre, that never happened before |
| 19:28.09 | ar0x | do the qemu inside the SVN support GTA02's S3C2442 ? |
| 19:28.26 | hhf423 | don't know |
| 19:29.01 | CM | hhf423: There's some problem with matchbox at the moment |
| 19:29.49 | hhf423 | CM, ah, how to fix? |
| 19:30.04 | CM | At least there were some "work arounds" added to OE around 3h ago |
| 19:30.15 | hhf423 | doh |
| 19:30.24 | CM | Not sure how to fix it, but the latest updates supposedly works |
| 19:30.28 | CM | I haven't tried yet |
| 19:30.46 | borg_ | i think it doesnt |
| 19:30.48 | hhf423 | CM I just flashed the image from today from buildhost |
| 19:30.50 | borg_ | it doesnt compile so :) |
| 19:30.55 | CM | borg_: Hehe |
| 19:32.36 | borg_ | i hand to remove matchbox-common from the CONFLICT variable in openmoko-today2-folders and openmoko-session2 to get it compiled |
| 19:32.42 | borg_ | s/hand/had |
| 19:33.02 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@78.16.72.31) |
| 19:33.04 | borg_ | but this breaks something else probably ;) |
| 19:33.34 | CM | Heh, I got the classic svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused |
| 19:33.51 | CM | berlios must have about 50% uptime or so.. |
| 19:34.07 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 19:34.19 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkid` (n=sudharsh@59.92.7.52) |
| 19:34.22 | borg_ | the thing is, that task-openmoko-ui depends on matchbox-common, but openmoko-today2-foders conflicts with matchbox-common |
| 19:34.41 | borg_ | dont now what is right, but both at the same time is not possible :) |
| 19:34.50 | hhf423 | hmm, let me try an image from yesterday |
| 19:37.00 | CM | My build finished fine.. |
| 19:37.23 | borg_ | CM: can you cat openembedded/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-today2-folders_svn.bb ? |
| 19:37.35 | hhf423 | CM is your build online somewhere? |
| 19:37.35 | borg_ | is there a #RCONFLICTS_${PN} = "matchbox-common" in it? |
| 19:38.16 | CM | borg_: It's not commented out: http://rafb.net/p/WVKM2924.html |
| 19:38.32 | borg_ | yes, i commented it out |
| 19:39.03 | borg_ | otherwise i get something like "task-openmoko-ui depends on matchbox-common but conflicts with openmoko-today2-foders" |
| 19:39.10 | borg_ | mh |
| 19:39.26 | CM | Heh, now my Neo is unable to start X |
| 19:39.34 | CM | After an ipkg update/upgrade |
| 19:39.57 | hhf423 | heh, brilliant |
| 19:40.29 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-68-26.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 19:40.42 | hhf423 | real programmers need no X |
| 19:41.53 | CM | Does the screen power down when you're not in X? |
| 19:42.12 | CM | Heh, can echo 0 into brightness maybe.. :P |
| 19:42.16 | hhf423 | no, shows angstrom "logo" and stuff |
| 19:42.36 | CM | Yes, same here |
| 19:43.05 | hhf423 | boah |
| 19:43.10 | hhf423 | "power menu" |
| 19:43.17 | borg_ | :D |
| 19:43.20 | borg_ | nice, isnt it? :) |
| 19:44.22 | hhf423 | there is no restart, I am annoyed :-) |
| 19:44.35 | CM | Same here.. Hmm.. |
| 19:44.51 | borg_ | mh |
| 19:44.52 | CM | Where's my Bullet Proof X for OpenMoko? |
| 19:44.59 | CM | :P |
| 19:45.07 | mjr | well |
| 19:45.08 | hhf423 | I want GTA02. 200MHz just do not cut it |
| 19:45.21 | mjr | It's fb. I don't know how more bulletproof do you need... |
| 19:45.40 | hhf423 | CM, yes we need an X that always works and always comes back from the dead :-) |
| 19:46.04 | *** join/#openmoko don (n=dons@24.147.104.33) |
| 19:46.21 | mwester | Sync up and build again - it's supposed to be fixed. |
| 19:46.40 | don | anyone got a information about release dates? |
| 19:46.44 | hhf423 | can someone build the fixed on and put it up online? |
| 19:46.57 | hhf423 | don, release dates of what? |
| 19:47.05 | _buz | don: not really |
| 19:47.35 | don | I am a little concerned the Website now says "he Consumer-ready hardware will be available around year's end, with Consumer-ready software to follow some time after that." |
| 19:47.49 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 19:48.04 | don | so.... they will sell the phone without consumer ready software? |
| 19:48.13 | borg_ | i hope so |
| 19:48.16 | mwester | don: that's been apparent for a very long time now |
| 19:48.28 | borg_ | i like to have it as soon as possible |
| 19:48.32 | don | I'm new. Sorry |
| 19:48.37 | mwester | The software has been evolving at a pace that can best be described as glacial. |
| 19:48.45 | hhf423 | hahaha |
| 19:48.59 | don | I assumed the consumer model would be a usable consumer phone. |
| 19:49.10 | mwester | It seems that all resources have been committed to the Product That Is Not A Cell Phone and the GTA02 euromoko hardware |
| 19:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 19:50.00 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.233.225) |
| 19:50.32 | don | mwester: I'm confused. they pulled everyone off for a non cellphone product? |
| 19:50.42 | mwester | Gotta pay the bill somehow. |
| 19:51.05 | _buz | http://www.dash.net/ this supposedly |
| 19:51.11 | mwester | I don't have the URL handy, but the product was finally announced (and the hardware was developed by the FIC team) |
| 19:51.27 | don | Ummm would them releasing an OS cellphone pay the bills? |
| 19:51.31 | mwester | It's actually a pretty cool little device - it has a GSM modem, but it's not a phone. |
| 19:51.47 | _buz | its a totally broken formfactor if you ask me |
| 19:52.02 | mwester | It's intended for an automobile - it didn't seem too bad to me. |
| 19:52.21 | _buz | well, why the protrusion towards the back |
| 19:52.33 | don | R U KIDDING? Why another GPS device? |
| 19:52.44 | _buz | because you get paid for it |
| 19:53.01 | don | I understand but come on. |
| 19:53.02 | mwester | That's what folks are buying for Christmas these years... |
| 19:53.13 | CM | Yes, it sure is |
| 19:53.14 | don | I would love to buy a new cellphone. |
| 19:53.22 | _buz | yeah i'm somehow wondering if that was the best thing to do myself |
| 19:53.35 | fgau | euromoko, nice |
| 19:53.45 | mwester | I also was hoping for a GTA02 this year, but I'm going to have to settle for a Nokiia 800 |
| 19:53.57 | hhf423 | no 810? |
| 19:54.02 | cjb_ie | i was hoping for one as well, but i got a treo 680 |
| 19:54.09 | mwester | I'm too cheap for the 810. |
| 19:54.10 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=nnnnnnnc@c-71-193-239-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:54.10 | _buz | why cant nokia add gsm to the 810 |
| 19:54.32 | _buz | i need a new smartphone RSN |
| 19:54.47 | _buz | looks like i'll have to deal with the crud that runs on HTC's otherwise nice hardware |
| 19:55.02 | hhf423 | yeah |
| 19:55.03 | don | I am going to have to go all out and get the iPhone. |
| 19:55.31 | mwester | Pick your prison... They're all closed in some way or another. |
| 19:55.35 | jmichel | I don't get it: what's euromoko? |
| 19:55.48 | _buz | or maybe i should get a crackberry, will have to use one sooner or later anyhow |
| 19:55.52 | CM | jmichel: It's a gsm phone that doesn't have the 850Mhz band |
| 19:56.10 | don | Since I'm in the states.... |
| 19:56.21 | don | Damn I hate vaporware |
| 19:56.38 | _buz | can the smedia chip atleast run duke nukem forever? |
| 19:56.43 | mwester | If you're in the US, then you might find that the GTA02 as currently planned is a little light on coverage. |
| 19:56.49 | thomasg | _buz: of course |
| 19:56.59 | _buz | i assume it will come preinstalled |
| 19:57.00 | thomasg | _buz: it comes pre-installed since it is full-gpl |
| 19:57.05 | _buz | niiiice |
| 19:57.30 | don | I understand missing dates but to cell your phone without software? |
| 19:57.41 | don | cell=sell |
| 19:57.48 | don | one track mind |
| 19:58.06 | borg_ | don: where is the problem? if they dont lie about that |
| 19:58.13 | borg_ | you dont have to buy it |
| 19:58.16 | _buz | i'm beginning to think openmoko missed the window |
| 19:58.29 | jmichel | CM: Will the GTA02 miss the 859mhz band ? |
| 19:58.30 | don | I was looking forward to a consumer phone in December. |
| 19:58.51 | jmichel | CM: because I'm in canada and it is still used a lot |
| 19:58.54 | borg_ | yes, i too, but the software is simply not ready for a consumer product. |
| 19:59.00 | hachi | AUGH |
| 19:59.10 | hachi | twice now my moko phone has rebooted on its own |
| 19:59.17 | don | I see this as a huge problem |
| 19:59.22 | CM | hachi: You might have the same problem as ScaredyCat |
| 19:59.38 | CM | hachi: That it doesn't charge properly while plugged in and powered on |
| 19:59.39 | borg_ | don: then dont buy it |
| 19:59.46 | don | borg: there is going to be competition. |
| 19:59.47 | borg_ | there is no problem with ten |
| 19:59.54 | hachi | no, it's charging fine |
| 19:59.58 | hachi | it's fully charged |
| 19:59.59 | borg_ | don: i dont see any at the momment |
| 20:00.13 | hachi | I have it sitting on a table and it will just suddenly reboot |
| 20:00.14 | don | borg: I want this to succeed not Apple not Google. |
| 20:00.18 | borg_ | it depends on what you whant to have |
| 20:00.21 | _buz | borg_: it depends what you consider to be competition |
| 20:00.33 | don | borg: if they beat it to market they will win |
| 20:00.53 | _buz | yeah, open for the sake of open wont be good enough |
| 20:01.01 | CM | jmichel: It's not a quad band phone, unfortunally :/ |
| 20:01.03 | borg_ | who cares about marketshare? |
| 20:01.04 | don | buz I agree |
| 20:01.08 | borg_ | i want an open phone |
| 20:01.13 | _buz | borg_: anyone who wants to recoup costs |
| 20:01.30 | SpeedEvil | Or anyone that wants OM/android/... to be a viable OS platform |
| 20:01.46 | don | borg: if they don't have market share they can't make open devices. |
| 20:01.47 | _buz | exactly |
| 20:02.17 | don | I have to go cry now. |
| 20:02.19 | _buz | while i very much comment open-everything i'm doubting many will |
| 20:02.30 | don | It doesn't matter |
| 20:03.15 | _buz | if i can get root on an android phone, that is good enough for my purposes and i fear the same is true for 95% of even the geek population |
| 20:03.18 | don | If the phone works well and allows you to circumvent cell company nickle and dime charges it will become successful. |
| 20:03.36 | _buz | if that is your only concern, buy an open market phone |
| 20:03.47 | _buz | nokia s60 phones work pretty well at what they do |
| 20:03.48 | don | Most people will never look for or know what "root" is. |
| 20:04.02 | _buz | it says there geek population |
| 20:04.17 | don | I am a member of the geek population. |
| 20:04.21 | don | I want root |
| 20:04.33 | _buz | in some way, openwrt proves the point. people dont care about fully open drivers as long as the hardware is cheap |
| 20:04.54 | don | But I know to be successful they will need more owners than our tiny demographic can provide. |
| 20:05.00 | _buz | exactly |
| 20:05.10 | borg_ | why? |
| 20:05.24 | borg_ | it gets forward |
| 20:05.31 | borg_ | i little bit slow |
| 20:05.35 | _buz | its one year late |
| 20:05.38 | borg_ | but there is progress |
| 20:05.44 | borg_ | yes |
| 20:05.49 | CM | I think the Eee PC is a good step on the way |
| 20:05.50 | _buz | GTA02 in december 06 would have been perfect |
| 20:05.50 | borg_ | i agree |
| 20:06.02 | don | By then we will have a more open iPhone and android will be available. |
| 20:06.21 | CM | X is back.. |
| 20:06.22 | borg_ | a more open iphone, haha |
| 20:06.23 | _buz | has anyone used an eee ? |
| 20:06.23 | borg_ | ;) |
| 20:06.33 | don | It will happen |
| 20:06.33 | thomasg | CM: imho the EeePC is too expensive and too big |
| 20:06.36 | don | got to go |
| 20:06.38 | don | l8tr |
| 20:06.41 | SpeedEvil | I'm astounded at how good my existing laptop is - even compared to the eee |
| 20:06.50 | SpeedEvil | And it's 5 years oldish |
| 20:06.51 | _buz | yeah the original 199$ point would have been perfect |
| 20:06.54 | _buz | 399 not so much |
| 20:07.09 | thomasg | _buz: yeah, 200$ for the 4G version would have been nice |
| 20:07.10 | SpeedEvil | 1.1Kg, wifi (modded in) 8h battery life |
| 20:07.10 | mjr | piffles, android phones will take a long while yet, nobody has any clue how open those will be in practice, and hell will freeze over before iphone will be significantly open |
| 20:07.15 | CM | thomasg: What about that gPC or what they call that cheap pc? |
| 20:07.32 | thomasg | CM it's a desktop-pc, and a nice device - but a bit expensive, too |
| 20:07.41 | _buz | mjr: dont underestimate google, they may well release BEFORE the deadline |
| 20:07.49 | CM | Hmm.. Seems to have sold out anyway though |
| 20:07.52 | borg_ | http://robilad.livejournal.com/22312.html |
| 20:07.55 | thomasg | I like the OLPC / XO device |
| 20:08.01 | borg_ | have you read the license of android? |
| 20:08.09 | borg_ | you may not extract the source code or create a derivative work of the SDK |
| 20:08.24 | borg_ | thats not what i would call free as in free speech |
| 20:08.42 | SpeedEvil | That's a whole lot better than windows. |
| 20:08.44 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 20:08.51 | _buz | yeah but the issue is: once android hardware is out, people will be running OM and qtopia on it |
| 20:08.59 | SpeedEvil | If they can |
| 20:09.04 | _buz | and openmoko needs to sell neos to make any cash |
| 20:09.19 | SpeedEvil | you can lock down an OS phone so you cannot install any other OS (operating system) on it |
| 20:09.24 | *** join/#openmoko |R (i=bob@modemcable241.28-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:09.28 | SpeedEvil | (the first OS was open source) |
| 20:09.56 | mwester | SpeedEvil: But it's like the difference between a vehicle with the hood welded shut, and one where the hood opens but everything inside is welded closed -- in the end, both Windows and Android are effectively closed. |
| 20:10.14 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 20:10.23 | SpeedEvil | To be fair, it depends. |
| 20:10.24 | _buz | we cant really tell that at the current point in time |
| 20:10.40 | borg_ | but nevertheless |
| 20:10.45 | borg_ | if they make it free |
| 20:10.48 | mwester | We can tell the direction, if not the final result. |
| 20:10.48 | borg_ | its of course great |
| 20:10.49 | SpeedEvil | If android has a nice way to check in external code and these checkins actually happen promptly and reasonably. |
| 20:11.00 | CM | Heh, the openmoko browser still crashes on wikipedia.com... |
| 20:11.02 | _buz | or if you can get root on android |
| 20:11.02 | borg_ | we can port there jvm to openmoko then |
| 20:11.12 | borg_ | and run android applications |
| 20:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 20:11.14 | SpeedEvil | and you can install and use apps that can access the full functionality of the phone, ... |
| 20:11.24 | CM | borg_: dvm? ;) |
| 20:11.32 | borg_ | dvm? |
| 20:11.37 | CM | Dalvik VM |
| 20:11.38 | mwester | But it remains academic as long as the openmoko image can't function as either a basic PDA, a basic phone, or a basic GPS. |
| 20:11.42 | CM | It's not java |
| 20:11.49 | borg_ | oh, jes |
| 20:11.53 | borg_ | something derived |
| 20:11.55 | borg_ | whatever ;) |
| 20:11.57 | borg_ | there vm |
| 20:11.58 | borg_ | :P |
| 20:12.00 | mwester | "Openmoko is Open -- but it doesn't do anything useful!!" <-- Not a good advertisement. |
| 20:12.10 | _buz | mwester: much less any decent hardware that ships in volume |
| 20:12.13 | SpeedEvil | (yet) |
| 20:12.31 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@adsl-69-149-36-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 20:12.37 | mjr | one would expect the software focus of OM inc. to improve as 02 is finalized |
| 20:12.41 | borg_ | mwester: we are very close to a working phone in my opinion |
| 20:13.00 | _buz | mjr: when GTA02 is done, GTA03 will have to be developed at the highest possible pace |
| 20:13.04 | mjr | Indeed. I use it as my phone. It's not maximally reliable, though. |
| 20:13.09 | mwester | So let's revolt. It's time to fork the openmoko software so that we have an *OPEN* repository, and the community can actually contribute in a meaningful way. |
| 20:13.24 | SpeedEvil | GTA02v? needs to rapidly come out - which is the variant with 850Mhz |
| 20:13.25 | mwester | If we wait for Openmoko, we'll have NO hardware, and NO software eitehr. |
| 20:13.27 | borg_ | mjr: do you use dim only or suspend? |
| 20:13.38 | mjr | no suspend |
| 20:13.51 | borg_ | ok |
| 20:14.37 | _buz | if openmoko doesnt deliver the hardware, who else will |
| 20:15.03 | borg_ | ? |
| 20:15.07 | mwester | _buz: Nobody, unless there is software to make a community that will buy it. |
| 20:15.10 | borg_ | i am pretty sure they will deliver gta02 |
| 20:15.23 | _buz | borg_: yeah i guess they will just when is the question |
| 20:15.32 | mwester | So it's time to make the software work, then someone will step up to make hardware. Right now it's *ALL* vapor |
| 20:15.34 | _buz | but after that, gta03 will need to be done very quickly |
| 20:15.43 | _buz | and frankly, by now, 450$ for gta02 is overpriced |
| 20:15.47 | borg_ | mwester: calm down |
| 20:15.56 | mwester | borg_: ??? |
| 20:16.14 | borg_ | whats your problem? |
| 20:16.29 | mwester | borg_: Am I bothering you? |
| 20:16.30 | borg_ | you bought a developer device |
| 20:16.41 | borg_ | they never sold it as a consumer product |
| 20:16.44 | CM | borg_: He's done some very well needed patches for gsmd and so on, and they're just stuck in bugzilla instead of added to OpenMoko |
| 20:16.57 | borg_ | ok, thats bad :) |
| 20:16.58 | buz | borg_: they way things are going now, it will never be a consumer product |
| 20:17.02 | buz | so he has a point |
| 20:17.03 | mwester | borg_: What are you blabbering about? I'm trying to get this community to step up and develop software. |
| 20:17.15 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e179082252.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:17.19 | mwester | borg_: What have I said about developer devices and such? |
| 20:17.26 | CM | mwester: I'm with you, and I get your point. |
| 20:18.01 | CM | mwester: Hmm.. Koen is always running Ångström on his Neo. How big is the difference between OM and that? |
| 20:19.22 | mwester | That's a good question. OM is a derivitive (sp?) of Angstrom. It would be interesting to try it and see. |
| 20:19.30 | buz | is it true that HTC essentially is a sister company to FIC? |
| 20:19.51 | woglinde | buz uhm |
| 20:21.13 | borg_ | mwester: i get the point, but i think it is not getting better if we run down the openmoko core team |
| 20:21.32 | borg_ | and i think it is not getting better if we split this community with a fork |
| 20:21.54 | woglinde | borg??? |
| 20:21.57 | CoreDump | angstrom is not a "fork"... |
| 20:22.04 | borg_ | ? |
| 20:22.05 | buz | woglinde: what? i read that in several places |
| 20:22.13 | woglinde | koen dont make application development |
| 20:22.18 | woglinde | so no fork |
| 20:22.28 | borg_ | mwester spoke about a fork |
| 20:22.32 | borg_ | i dont mean angstrom |
| 20:23.17 | woglinde | who us forking openmoko? |
| 20:23.17 | woglinde | is |
| 20:23.17 | borg_ | 21:13 < mwester> So let's revolt. It's time to fork the openmoko software so that we have an *OPEN* repository, and the community can actually contribute in a meaningful way. |
| 20:23.18 | woglinde | hm |
| 20:23.18 | woglinde | okay |
| 20:23.18 | woglinde | sorry |
| 20:23.24 | CoreDump | borg_: that can already be done via OM apps in angstrom |
| 20:24.11 | buz | in a way, the community is already split |
| 20:24.23 | buz | just think of the trolls using neo for their work |
| 20:25.03 | *** join/#openmoko IfChinsCouldKill (n=ifchinsc@p5B106458.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:26.18 | woglinde | buz which trolls? |
| 20:26.32 | buz | woglinde: trolltech |
| 20:26.37 | woglinde | buz haha |
| 20:26.51 | buz | well they are commonly referred to as trolls in kde world ;) |
| 20:27.01 | woglinde | I will now testing opera-mini on qemu on the qtopia-image |
| 20:27.04 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.233.225) |
| 20:27.30 | buz | it gotten pretty darn good |
| 20:27.34 | mwester | borg_: I've waited quite long enough, and seen enough patches wither away and become lost - it's clear to me that the OpenMoko developers are moving too slowly, and have no good process for accepting community input to the core software. This is a fact. |
| 20:27.56 | mwester | borg_: A fork is a perfectly rational suggestion when such a thing occurs, and serves the interests of all involved. |
| 20:28.14 | borg_ | mwester: mh |
| 20:28.14 | mwester | borg_: OpenMoko can continue with whatever it is they have planned at a pace that makes them comfortable... |
| 20:28.41 | buz | but i still wonder who would supply hardware for such a project |
| 20:28.48 | borg_ | but there has to be somebody else who decides who gets write access to whatever then |
| 20:28.50 | mwester | borg_: and other in the community can develop and exeriment at thier pace. And OM can pick what the wish from the other parallel projects |
| 20:28.53 | buz | i'm not sure i believe build it and they will come |
| 20:29.17 | buz | borg_: those issues are true for EVERY project |
| 20:29.25 | buz | in general, the open source world seems to manage quite well |
| 20:29.27 | borg_ | yes |
| 20:29.49 | borg_ | but the complains are about that |
| 20:30.05 | borg_ | so i dont see the adantage of a fork in this case |
| 20:30.06 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=dottedma@unaffiliated/dottedmag) |
| 20:30.11 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 20:30.12 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADD75.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:30.17 | mwester | borg_: Agreed, someone must decide. But the problem is that OM have decided that a very small number of relatively inaccessable people have access to the repos. EG, when was the last time you spoke to the person in charge of gsmd on IRC? |
| 20:30.57 | mwester | How about a technical conversation with the guy that owned the kernel and uboot repos at openmoko? When was the last time he dropped by here to have a technical discussion? |
| 20:31.26 | CM | I think mickeyl mentioned that.. |
| 20:31.29 | borg_ | mwester: ok, i have to agree on that |
| 20:31.33 | buz | might as well ask how many OM employees ever dropped by |
| 20:31.46 | CM | Those .tw guys just don't know anything about "Open Source" |
| 20:31.55 | mwester | Oh roh and michaelshiloh and mickey_away and XorA|gone drop by often. |
| 20:32.12 | buz | yeah, still can count them on one hand i guess |
| 20:32.14 | CM | And they're a bit afraid of hanging out in here because of their english |
| 20:32.42 | buz | but they better learn it quickly, otherwise the project is doomed anyhow |
| 20:32.47 | mwester | True. But they speak engish far better than I speak taiwanese, so I'm happy to try to communicate in any case. |
| 20:33.06 | CM | There's one of them that's been in here a few times |
| 20:33.12 | CM | But he never said much |
| 20:33.21 | buz | in general, the FOSS community is quite accomodating to language issues in my experience |
| 20:33.31 | buz | as long as you arent behaving stupidly at the same time |
| 20:33.43 | borg_ | thats a really bad excuse, i have to look up every second word i write here :) |
| 20:33.53 | mwester | Honestly I have wondered if there is a #openmoko-devel channel where all the folks contributing to the core software hang about... |
| 20:34.08 | mwester | borg_: Then you look things up very quickly and very well. |
| 20:34.09 | buz | yeah i'd venture to guess that less than 1/3 really speak english natively |
| 20:34.31 | buz | lots of german speaking people here, in any case |
| 20:34.33 | CM | I wonder how many are in the -dev channel |
| 20:34.46 | borg_ | mwester: oh, thank you :) |
| 20:35.06 | buz | (i'm german speaking myself, so maybe i'm biased) |
| 20:35.23 | borg_ | buz: you are not |
| 20:35.34 | CM | Quite many who speak swedish here too, and finnish.. |
| 20:35.45 | buz | a LOT of europeans in any case |
| 20:35.48 | borg_ | there are somehow a lot of german and scandinavian people around |
| 20:36.07 | IfChinsCouldKill | so we don't need 850 let's move on eh |
| 20:36.18 | buz | for some reason, that seems true for most OS projects i've been involved with |
| 20:36.27 | CVirus | lots of Scandinavians == lots of metal heads :-p |
| 20:36.31 | mwester | Anyway, I must run off for a while. I've been wondering what would be the reaction to the suggestion of an alternate repository for core software, and I see that it's not something most folks are too interested in right now. :) |
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| 20:37.09 | buz | that not what i read, at all |
| 20:37.49 | borg_ | mwester: perhaps you are right |
| 20:38.07 | borg_ | i didnt know that they dont apply patches |
| 20:38.18 | buz | maybe you should suggest it on the ml |
| 20:38.24 | buz | might kick OM into action if nothing else |
| 20:39.09 | dinamich | Anybody knows why Harald Welte left the core team, he spoke about "internal friction" on his blog... |
| 20:39.59 | CVirus | Is there an IDE that can do code completion for PyGTK code ? |
| 20:40.00 | LarstiQ | mwester: gsmd is in git already |
| 20:40.12 | LarstiQ | CVirus: vim? |
| 20:40.48 | CVirus | LarstiQ: other recommendations ? |
| 20:41.26 | LarstiQ | CVirus: pida |
| 20:41.53 | CVirus | LarstiQ: thanks |
| 20:42.00 | LarstiQ | np |
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| 21:44.10 | ortalo | hi |
| 21:44.16 | borg_ | hi |
| 21:45.18 | ortalo | trying to build with mokomakefile on a fresh machine, but tells me svn.berlios.de is refusing connections. any hint ? |
| 21:45.58 | borg_ | mh |
| 21:46.03 | borg_ | wait some minutes and try again :) |
| 21:46.42 | borg_ | svn.berlios.de is online for me at the moment |
| 21:47.17 | ortalo | i can ping it, but svn co does not work |
| 21:47.33 | borg_ | oh |
| 21:47.56 | borg_ | thats weired |
| 21:49.06 | borg_ | same for me |
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| 21:49.17 | borg_ | worked 2 hours ago |
| 21:50.11 | ortalo | busy site probably |
| 21:50.32 | ortalo | isn't it possible to use the bitbake coming from the distribution (i am on Ubuntu)? |
| 21:50.49 | borg_ | it is |
| 21:51.03 | borg_ | i use the ubuntu bitbake |
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| 21:52.08 | ortalo | how do you make mokomakefile use this one instead of trying to build its own from berlios svn? |
| 21:54.49 | ortalo | hmm, that's "touch stamps/bitbake" ... :-) |
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| 21:58.33 | borg_ | mh |
| 21:58.54 | borg_ | i think earlier versions of the mokomakefile didnt force this build of the berlios bitbake |
| 21:59.15 | borg_ | i think i am using the selfbuild one then too now |
| 21:59.20 | borg_ | without noticing it :) |
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| 22:35.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1012 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net |
| 22:35.02 | cdbot2 | * * moko-gtk-theme lacks UI elements for openmoko-mediaplayer2 |
| 22:35.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1012 |
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| 22:50.20 | dcordes | hi |
| 22:51.48 | dcordes | starox: Do I know you from some different embedded channel? ^^ |
| 22:51.58 | dcordes | Stephmw: sorry |
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| 22:52.29 | Stephmw | dcordes: could be, could be |
| 22:52.42 | Stephmw | dcordes: personally, I think you're just following me :D |
| 22:54.22 | abraxa_ | Is the person who filed bug 1012 here? |
| 22:54.59 | mwester | !ombug 1012 |
| 22:55.00 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 1012, Status: ASSIGNED, Created: Unknown |
| 22:55.01 | cdbot2 | * * cwixon(AT)usa.net: moko-gtk-theme lacks UI elements for openmoko-mediaplayer2 |
| 22:55.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1012 |
| 22:55.51 | CoreDump | no worries |
| 22:56.03 | abraxa_ | ;) |
| 22:56.26 | CoreDump | it's not like the channel is busy at this time ;) |
| 22:56.57 | mwester | Still, one never knows how many folks might be paying by the kb, on GPRS or something. :) |
| 22:58.13 | ewon | heh |
| 22:58.59 | zash | yay for gprs |
| 22:59.39 | CoreDump | mwester: true, I didn't think of that |
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| 23:30.30 | quicksand | abraxa_: ping |
| 23:30.39 | abraxa_ | I'm here |
| 23:30.50 | quicksand | You were asking about bug 1012? |
| 23:31.10 | abraxa_ | Yeah. Did you file it? |
| 23:31.15 | quicksand | Yep. |
| 23:31.20 | abraxa_ | Ahh okay |
| 23:31.57 | abraxa_ | Well, that theme isn't supposed to be used yet - you might have noticed the distinct lack of styles :) |
| 23:32.13 | quicksand | Yes, true, but that's why we track these things, right? |
| 23:32.32 | abraxa_ | So your bug report is correct, though it merely means that the new theme just needs some more time to develop |
| 23:33.22 | abraxa_ | e.g. at the moment I'm discussing with Thomas (the creator of the OpenMoko GTK engine) in what direction the media player theme could/should go |
| 23:33.38 | quicksand | Fair enough. Most of the openmoko apps don't seem to care much (a missing icon or two, at the most), but the mediaplayer becomes all but inaccessible. |
| 23:33.41 | abraxa_ | Just as a heads up, cause it'll take a bit until you see action taken on that bug :) |
| 23:33.54 | quicksand | The buttons resize down to pinpoint-size. ;-) |
| 23:34.09 | abraxa_ | Yeah, that's because it doesn't make use of the standard widgets |
| 23:34.24 | abraxa_ | It would just look too bland ;) |
| 23:34.34 | quicksand | No worries. You're doing a great job on the mediaplayer. I can wait. But at least now I can play around with the new theme engine and listen to music too. |
| 23:34.51 | abraxa_ | Yup, thanks |
| 23:35.02 | abraxa_ | And I'm glad there are people who give feedback ;) |
| 23:35.40 | quicksand | A few days ago I submitted like five bugs in a row. They're not earth-shattering, but I think it's useful to do, at least. |
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| 23:37.21 | abraxa_ | Definitely! |
| 23:37.40 | quicksand | (Plus I wanted #1000, which I got. Heh.) |
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