| 00:06.32 | benni | Well actually I need to go to bed now anyways... |
| 00:06.56 | benni | Good night and thanks for all your help, sooner or later it will work, I'm sure... ^^ |
| 00:08.40 | balrog-kun | it should work out of the box now, check when you wake up :) |
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| 01:33.28 | Vndmtrx | Flws povo !!! |
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| 01:45.59 | hachi | bleh, I need to read the docs |
| 01:46.21 | hachi | someone handed me a neo 1973, it booted the first time... I powered it off, now it refuses to come on |
| 01:46.44 | hachi | if anyone has a moment to help, I'd love it, otherwise I'm just gonna go digging and see if there are docs to help me |
| 01:46.45 | SpeedEvil | hachi: you've flattened the battery, and PM sucks |
| 01:46.54 | hachi | I have it plugged in |
| 01:46.59 | SpeedEvil | take battery out, leave 5 mins, charge 1 hour |
| 01:47.09 | SpeedEvil | boot, and charge the rest of the way |
| 01:47.20 | hachi | it charges when off? |
| 01:47.21 | SpeedEvil | some have found that the battery needs to be out for longer |
| 01:47.28 | SpeedEvil | not always |
| 01:47.36 | SpeedEvil | hence the battery out first to make sure it does |
| 01:47.57 | SpeedEvil | This is very broken |
| 01:48.11 | hachi | okay, battery is out, leaving it |
| 01:48.32 | SpeedEvil | It is mostly fixable in software thouhg. |
| 01:48.46 | hachi | I was gonna flash to the latest devel, assuming there is such a thing |
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| 01:56.51 | hachi | uhhh |
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| 02:00.37 | hachi | once I get it charged, if I leave it always plugged in to some USB device, will it tend to stay charged? |
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| 03:32.56 | mwester | hachi: Yes. Most devs currently keep the neo on the "umbilical USB cord". The software fixes to at least ensure that the various parts of the device are powered off when it is shut down are done, but everything moves at glacial speeds here. |
| 03:34.29 | mwester | We are all eagerly and with enormous anticipation awaiting a new snapshot; the last official one was released back when rocks were young. |
| 03:34.44 | hachi | can I build my own? I assume I can |
| 03:34.51 | mwester | (not to put *too* much pressure on the openmoko team working on the snapshot) :P :D |
| 03:35.14 | mwester | hachi: yep. The wiki has instructions, search for the Master Makefile |
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| 03:35.46 | mwester | It's a huge build; starts by building the cross-dev tools and tool-chain, so be patient and make sure you have disk space. |
| 03:36.01 | hachi | I hope 1.3TB is enough |
| 03:36.11 | mwester | That should just about do it. |
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| 03:36.16 | hachi | (that's all I can spare at the moment) |
| 03:37.08 | mwester | I seem to consume about 50 GB for builds, but I don't clean up much. You can probably get by with less. |
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| 03:37.52 | hachi | I need a bigger bench... too many switches and computers here to add the phone |
| 03:38.01 | hachi | maybe the kitchen counter |
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| 03:53.57 | rwhitby | mwester: MokoMakefile, not Master Makefile |
| 03:54.41 | hachi | google still found it |
| 03:55.41 | hachi | sadly that page only shows problems |
| 03:56.40 | Psi | do we have any idea what the finished gta01 battery time will be once all the PM is working etc..? |
| 03:57.03 | hachi | anyone here in the bay area, in case I brick my phone? I'll need a jtag programmer to fix it if this is anything like other embedded platforms |
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| 04:01.10 | cjb_ie | hachi: i think there's a few bay area folks with debug boards |
| 04:01.43 | hachi | the 'first run' people didn't get debug boards, right? |
| 04:02.04 | cjb_ie | however from over here in ireland i may be confusing the bay area with just about anywhere else in california |
| 04:02.12 | hachi | no worries :) |
| 04:02.30 | Mek | I think the bay area right now is the only place you can get your modem firmware upgraded, so I guess there are some debug boards as well... |
| 04:02.47 | cjb_ie | GTA01 was available with debug board for an extra $150; i don't know how many people wanted to spend the extra |
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| 04:03.12 | hachi | I mean the people who got free ones |
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| 04:03.17 | cjb_ie | oh, i don't know :) |
| 04:03.40 | cjb_ie | i would imagine being the first wave, doing the really low-level stuff, they would've needed them to get anywhere |
| 04:04.12 | hachi | yeah, but my coworker was one of them, and I don't remember him having a GIANT BLACK CASE of doom |
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| 04:17.23 | atul | Hi My Build 2007.2 get Failed. See here http://pastebin.ca/772927 |
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| 04:26.12 | hachi | atul: when I get to that point, I'm gonna change it to point to sqlite 3.5.2 instead |
| 04:26.17 | hachi | but maybe that's a bad idea |
| 04:26.24 | hachi | I was gonna do it anyways though |
| 04:30.45 | hachi | OE monotone may be down :\ |
| 04:30.46 | atul | hi hachi, How do you do it can you please tell me in detail ? |
| 04:31.14 | hachi | atul: nope, I can't, because I only started my build process about 2 minutes ago |
| 04:31.50 | hachi | I suspect that I will hit precisely the same error soon enough though |
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| 04:32.34 | atul | hachi: if you face same error let me know here. |
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| 04:33.44 | hachi | mtn: connecting to monotone.openembedded.org |
| 04:33.44 | hachi | mtn: network error: failed to connect: Connection refused |
| 04:33.56 | hachi | guess I'll build it later |
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| 05:04.59 | paroneayea | :( |
| 05:05.02 | paroneayea | No DFU capable USB device found |
| 05:05.11 | paroneayea | it worked a couple months ago when I last flashed it.. |
| 05:06.35 | paroneayea | I'm seeing this message in dmesg: |
| 05:06.40 | paroneayea | drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: This device cannot do calls on its own. It is no modem. |
| 05:06.43 | paroneayea | could that be related? |
| 05:06.54 | paroneayea | also: cdc_acm 1-3:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device |
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| 05:15.15 | paroneayea | note that I can ssh into the device just fine when I boot it up |
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| 05:33.37 | hachi | blah |
| 05:33.39 | hachi | I got it to boot |
| 05:33.45 | hachi | so I let it sit plugged into the wall |
| 05:33.48 | hachi | it died again |
| 05:34.08 | hachi | it wasn't even on for more than 10 minutes |
| 05:34.47 | hachi | do I have a way around the fact that OE monotone is down? |
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| 06:03.28 | nelson | rwhitby: hehe, yep, that would be it. |
| 06:05.12 | rwhitby | nelson: lxeth was the name of my package - I think it was simply an (attributed) recompile of the crynwyr driver for the en2216 card. |
| 06:05.42 | blindcoder | moin |
| 06:05.44 | nelson | probably. |
| 06:05.55 | nelson | CF devices end up being identical once you get them on the bus. |
| 06:08.08 | rwhitby | nelson: anyway, a belated thanks for your work. It was a pleasure to build upon it. |
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| 06:14.23 | nelson | you're welcome. |
| 06:19.44 | hachi | OE monotone anyone? also anyone know about that sqlite version problem that was mentioned earlier by someone else? |
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| 06:27.21 | CM | hachi: Yes, OE mtn seems to be down. Wait a bit until the devs start waking up here in Europe :) |
| 06:28.42 | hachi | any input on the 'battery dies when plugged into charger' issue? |
| 06:32.53 | CM | What charger is it? |
| 06:33.12 | CM | If it's a "dumb" charger I'm afraid it's not working correctly |
| 06:33.26 | CM | Or if it's a laptop it might be problems too |
| 06:33.45 | hachi | TC-FU-USB... I was handed the phone and assumed it was a charger that came with it |
| 06:34.21 | CM | TC-FU? |
| 06:34.32 | hachi | it's the same exact issue that my coworker had with his phase 0 when he got it back in what.. .march? |
| 06:34.36 | CM | I've only charged mine from my desktop |
| 06:34.42 | CM | Ah, ok |
| 06:35.09 | hachi | he hasn't really touched his phase 0 since then that I'm aware of |
| 06:35.46 | CM | Is it a gta01v3 or v4? |
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| 06:36.01 | CM | Should say on the back |
| 06:36.11 | hachi | the one I have is a v4 |
| 06:36.18 | CM | Hmm... |
| 06:36.21 | hachi | the one he had was one of the original 36 |
| 06:36.24 | hachi | so I assume v3 |
| 06:36.27 | hachi | has |
| 06:36.56 | CM | I'm not sure what is different. |
| 06:37.10 | CM | But the people who do know should start waking up now :) |
| 06:37.19 | hachi | still, I had it charged earlier, and then powered it on, and within 20 minutes it was dead again |
| 06:37.40 | CM | Was it charging at all? |
| 06:37.47 | hachi | dunno how to tell |
| 06:37.59 | hachi | there's no positive assertion that I could see telling me |
| 06:40.51 | CM | hachi: If you can get it powered on, and ssh in, cat /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgmode would tell you what kind of charging it's doing |
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| 06:41.17 | CM | hachi: Also, if you hold in AUX when power on you should be able to set Fast Charge |
| 06:41.28 | hachi | thanks |
| 06:41.54 | rwhitby | original 36 were Bv3 |
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| 07:06.48 | hachi | what's the deal with such a heavy waveguide for the speakers |
| 07:06.58 | hachi | was fidelity that much of a concern in the original design? |
| 07:07.20 | hachi | it does sound pretty nifty when it boots |
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| 07:12.00 | hachi | it's booting! |
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| 07:16.24 | CVirus | .quit |
| 07:16.28 | CVirus | oops |
| 07:19.20 | hachi | ahh, and I now see how it looks when charging |
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| 07:31.09 | CM | hachi: Ah, nice :) |
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| 07:59.08 | hachi | I'm getting errors about files owned by package gtk+ and gtk+fastscaling wants to install them |
| 07:59.20 | hachi | nothing on the wiki about this |
| 07:59.35 | hachi | at least, search for 'fastscaling' and 'gtk' gives me nothing |
| 08:02.00 | CM | Never herd about that. When did you get that? |
| 08:03.22 | hachi | ipkg upgrade |
| 08:03.37 | hachi | gonna attempt it again, oooh, new boot sound |
| 08:03.47 | hachi | gave it a reboot, also put my sim card in |
| 08:03.53 | CM | Maybe they've moved some packages around recently then. Prod XorA|gone about in when he's back |
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| 08:04.20 | CM | Hmm.. I haven't heard any boot sound in a long time.. Need to get a working u-boot soon |
| 08:05.14 | hachi | hmmm failed to call... or no sound |
| 08:05.24 | hachi | there were notes about this already |
| 08:06.36 | hachi | one missed call? |
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| 08:29.59 | mickeyl | hachi: ipkg remove gtk+ --force-depends |
| 08:30.03 | mickeyl | ipkg install gtk+-fastscaling |
| 08:30.30 | hachi | ok |
| 08:30.44 | hachi | I forced the install of everything, I'll do this now |
| 08:34.13 | *** join/#openmoko Atul_ (n=Atul@202.63.103.2) |
| 08:34.34 | CM | hachi: monotone.oe is back up |
| 08:34.57 | hachi | hurray, off my build goes |
| 08:35.39 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host212-223-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:36.37 | mickeyl | ok, i have a question |
| 08:36.50 | mickeyl | i'm using the /etc/network/interfaces file on my shiny new ubuntu to configure usb0 |
| 08:36.59 | mickeyl | however, it just doesn't work |
| 08:37.08 | mickeyl | i manually need to ifdown usb0; ifup usb0 |
| 08:37.21 | mickeyl | any idea why that doesn't work automatically once the Neo gets attached? |
| 08:37.39 | hachi | do you have usb0 set to hotplug? |
| 08:37.53 | mickeyl | allow-hotplug usb0 |
| 08:37.54 | mickeyl | iface usb0 inet static |
| 08:37.54 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:37.54 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:37.54 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:37.59 | hachi | hmm |
| 08:38.17 | mickeyl | looks about right, doesn#t it? |
| 08:38.29 | CM | It looks right |
| 08:38.46 | josch | mickeyl, do you use the networkmanager applet? |
| 08:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-143-112.web.vodafone.de) |
| 08:39.03 | mickeyl | josch: not sure, to be honest :) |
| 08:39.04 | CM | mickeyl: Did you see the bug roh posted about in the wiki? |
| 08:39.06 | mickeyl | using gnome for now |
| 08:39.26 | CM | About patching udev rules |
| 08:39.48 | josch | well, I configured nothing in /etc/network/interfaces and let nm-applet do all the stuff and it just works tm |
| 08:40.13 | *** join/#openmoko toer (i=tore@skjeldal.com) |
| 08:40.32 | josch | mickeyl, this is the network manager in gnome: http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/images/wireless-at-tealuxe.png |
| 08:41.24 | mickeyl | aah |
| 08:41.29 | mickeyl | yes, i think i'm using this thing |
| 08:41.51 | mickeyl | is this interfering with the "standard" debian way of doing things? |
| 08:41.55 | josch | well, I did put nothing in /etc/network/interfaces and let it do alle the stuff |
| 08:42.05 | josch | well - a little |
| 08:43.14 | josch | on my system it autodetects my pugged in neo and even autoconnects to it if I'm not registered in any other network |
| 08:43.50 | hachi | trying to get my phone to dial out |
| 08:43.54 | hachi | not having good luck yet |
| 08:44.04 | josch | hachi try libgsmd-tool |
| 08:46.14 | hachi | okay |
| 08:46.20 | hachi | searching for 'gsm' on the wiki fails |
| 08:46.52 | hachi | yet 'libgsmd-tool' works |
| 08:46.58 | hachi | stupid search system |
| 08:49.01 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:49.51 | *** join/#openmoko meldianen (n=chatzill@arl57-1-82-231-110-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:50.10 | mickeyl | ya, the wiki search sucks |
| 08:50.30 | CM | hachi: Use http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ instead |
| 08:51.24 | CM | Or http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=018430699993342716089%3Aszsaurhronw if you want the real google coop page ;) |
| 08:51.28 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125) |
| 08:51.30 | hachi | calls aren't reaching the far end... bleh |
| 08:51.40 | hachi | phone claims to be calling |
| 08:51.49 | mickeyl | josch: hmm, usb0 doesn't even show up in the network manager applet |
| 08:52.13 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat/x-a3289a5722190f8f) |
| 08:52.21 | *** part/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60-241-37-3.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 08:52.25 | josch | mickeyl, have you still configured usb0 manually? |
| 08:52.37 | hachi | oop, and now it's saying NO CARRIER |
| 08:52.38 | josch | networkmanager only manages the unconfigured interfaces |
| 08:56.08 | *** join/#openmoko tobmaster (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com) |
| 08:56.15 | borg_ | mickeyl: there is a bug in udev in ubuntu |
| 08:56.57 | borg_ | mickeyl: in /etc/udev/rules.d/85-ifupdown.rules |
| 08:56.58 | mickeyl | aah |
| 08:57.03 | borg_ | make |
| 08:57.08 | borg_ | LABEL="net_end" |
| 08:57.09 | borg_ | ACTION=="remove", RUN+="/sbin/start-stop-daemon --start --background --pidfile /var/run/network/bogus --startas /sbin/ifdown -- --allow auto $env{INTERFACE}" |
| 08:57.13 | borg_ | it this way around |
| 08:57.25 | borg_ | then restart and it will work |
| 08:57.28 | borg_ | (it did for me) |
| 08:58.35 | mickeyl | k, thanks. giving that a try |
| 09:01.26 | *** join/#openmoko sameo (n=samuel@AAnnecy-257-1-46-141.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:01.57 | hachi | sweet, calls work now |
| 09:02.07 | hachi | but... now the images in the dialer are 'broken' |
| 09:02.31 | *** join/#openmoko horvatj (n=horvatj@chello213047095126.4.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 09:02.31 | hachi | they show the little paper with an 'x' in them, so I have to guess at the buttons |
| 09:03.22 | *** join/#openmoko nurgle_ (n=nurgle@pirates.ivistar.de) |
| 09:03.26 | *** join/#openmoko nurgle__ (n=nurgle@pirates.ivistar.de) |
| 09:04.10 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|lappi (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-182-145.web.vodafone.de) |
| 09:04.16 | josch | where do I get i.e. this file: openmoko/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/libgsmd-tool.c on the internets? |
| 09:04.59 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 09:09.09 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 09:10.19 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 09:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 09:12.37 | *** join/#openmoko marsan_ (n=marsan@ti500720a080-1126.bb.online.no) |
| 09:13.54 | mickeyl | svnweb.openmoko.org |
| 09:14.00 | josch | mickeyl, thx |
| 09:14.57 | anders_ | The listview that is scrolled with fingers is that a standard gtktreeview with added scrolling capabilities or a custom widget? |
| 09:15.01 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 09:17.10 | josch | anders_, it's a custom wifget |
| 09:17.43 | *** join/#openmoko zoolooc (n=lucian@p5495293F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:17.49 | mickeyl | MokoFingerScroll, you can embed any widget in that to make it finger-scrolling aware |
| 09:18.25 | anders_ | Ok, thanks. |
| 09:18.35 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat/x-d68e33f6e5da1bf3) |
| 09:19.19 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet (n=larsg@ti500710a080-6165.bb.online.no) |
| 09:20.06 | ScaredyCat | morning all |
| 09:20.31 | CM | Morning you lazy ass.. ;) |
| 09:20.46 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 09:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet (n=larsg@ti500710a080-6165.bb.online.no) |
| 09:24.15 | flexd | Is it preferred that we code in C for programs for OM, or is python gonna be okay for gui stuff too? |
| 09:24.39 | flexd | I know _very_ little C, and python is way easier and like it more, i'm just thinking about performance |
| 09:24.48 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
| 09:26.00 | CM | flexd: I'd start in python if I was you :) |
| 09:26.13 | flexd | CM: good, because that's what i've done :< |
| 09:26.21 | flexd | One tiny thing annoying me though |
| 09:26.31 | flexd | the gui blocks :( |
| 09:26.37 | CM | flexd: But ask mickeyl or so for a definitive answer |
| 09:26.47 | flexd | I was thinking of trying to make a gtk debug console for my python bot |
| 09:26.50 | flexd | just for trying out gtk |
| 09:26.57 | CM | zash: Me too, or at least get better at many |
| 09:27.02 | flexd | but the damn window blocks the rest of my code :'( |
| 09:27.04 | flexd | but bbl meeting |
| 09:27.17 | josch | flexd, how does the window block? |
| 09:27.28 | flexd | when i run gtk.main() |
| 09:27.43 | flexd | i *suppose* i could run gtk.main() in a thread |
| 09:27.53 | flexd | but dunno how that would affect everything :< |
| 09:27.55 | josch | ah now I know what you mean |
| 09:28.10 | josch | well python is perfect for gui ^^ |
| 09:28.18 | flexd | the bot is using twisted atm, but none of that gets executed before the window closes >_> |
| 09:28.19 | josch | mickeyl is of the same opinion I suppose |
| 09:28.23 | flexd | i like it |
| 09:28.31 | flexd | but bbl gotta go people asking form e :/ |
| 09:28.46 | ScaredyCat | python seems to be the one people go for here, evn though it's slower than a slow thing, that lives in slow town |
| 09:29.10 | josch | ScaredyCat, not really - only startup takes 2 secs on my neo |
| 09:29.14 | mickeyl | debug shells in python are simple |
| 09:29.26 | mickeyl | i did on w/ Qt a couple of years ago |
| 09:29.43 | mickeyl | basically you just need to do a gfx terminal shell |
| 09:29.52 | mickeyl | then you have the command prompt from within the main loop |
| 09:30.25 | rwhitby | openmoko should support .net - then it could get all the whiners from that other not-to-be-named platform that only supports java :-) |
| 09:31.10 | rwhitby | mickeyl: I tell you what, the openmoko community list is like a precise technical discussion compared to that other mob's "developer" list. |
| 09:31.15 | zash | isnt there ppl working on porting mono already? |
| 09:31.19 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-115-188.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:31.38 | mickeyl | rwhitby: heh. you have a point, yeah |
| 09:32.07 | mickeyl | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/eb838b77fab8df226b5c5cd7d48ed171.png |
| 09:32.15 | mickeyl | text so big your grandma can read it |
| 09:32.19 | torpor | hey |
| 09:32.24 | torpor | i heard that homyx debricked his board. |
| 09:32.26 | josch | ScaredyCat, to slowness: yesterday I hacked together this GUI http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/pyPhone_Dialer.png and switching between tabs is not instant but it's also not instant in any other openmoko app and I fell NO differnece in speed once the app is loaded |
| 09:32.38 | torpor | ScaredyCat: you know what homyx ended up doing? |
| 09:32.49 | ScaredyCat | yes torpor |
| 09:32.51 | torpor | i guess i'll check my logs too, but i'm desperate to get my neo debricked. |
| 09:32.52 | rwhitby | it seems that there are just as many people who can't install a JRE, eclipse and a plugin as there are people who had trouble with getting OE working ... |
| 09:33.03 | torpor | rwhitby:! |
| 09:33.13 | torpor | rwhitby: got any hints for a debricker session? |
| 09:33.14 | josch | mickeyl, yeah nice! |
| 09:33.22 | ScaredyCat | plug it in, turn on the neo, keep doing reset connect reset connect with open ocd until it works |
| 09:33.35 | torpor | i've been trying for 3 days to get my neo debricked. i burned a bad uboot. |
| 09:33.36 | ScaredyCat | you wont get much indication that hte neo is on, at all |
| 09:33.50 | torpor | ScaredyCat: so you just keep doing reset/connect/reset/connect on the board, or the ribbon cable? |
| 09:33.57 | rwhitby | torpor: where are you at? got a pastebin of openocd output? |
| 09:34.03 | ScaredyCat | board, not cable |
| 09:34.05 | torpor | coz my ribbon cable is *FRAGILE* .. damn FIC for using such crap connectors! |
| 09:34.13 | XorA | torpor: reset switch on board, and run openocd |
| 09:34.17 | torpor | rwhitby: "JTAG results 0x00 check cable" |
| 09:34.19 | ScaredyCat | ahh there.. |
| 09:34.23 | XorA | torpor: nothing with cable |
| 09:34.24 | ScaredyCat | keep doing it |
| 09:34.31 | ScaredyCat | until it connects |
| 09:34.37 | ScaredyCat | apparently |
| 09:34.38 | torpor | okay we did that a lot last night too but i guess i gotta do it longer |
| 09:34.52 | torpor | i don't have my rig in front of me right now - just got a mail that it was fixed with homyx, so i guess i'm gonna try again today |
| 09:34.55 | torpor | really lame though. |
| 09:35.01 | torpor | okay guys thanks for the headsup .. |
| 09:35.05 | ScaredyCat | it's like having sex with a sheep, eventually you find the right method ;) |
| 09:35.11 | rwhitby | torpor: are you sure the battery is charged, and did you push the power button to power up the CPU before trying to connect via jtag? |
| 09:35.25 | torpor | rwhitby: yes. |
| 09:35.42 | torpor | actually not sure about the batteries .. we need a working neo to charge them. |
| 09:36.01 | torpor | i think they don't get charged in the crashed neos we have now.. |
| 09:36.17 | torpor | but okay i will try again this evening .. let you know. gotta go now. |
| 09:36.20 | torpor | hope we can get it fixed. |
| 09:36.23 | rwhitby | ok |
| 09:36.32 | XorA | torpor in emergency you can use a charged nokia battery |
| 09:36.38 | torpor | rwhitby: has been hard, we haven't had any jtag experts around. |
| 09:36.47 | torpor | okay, i'm out. |
| 09:36.48 | torpor | later! |
| 09:37.23 | ScaredyCat | josch: yes, but still slow - try it without the images on top |
| 09:37.43 | josch | ScaredyCat, what images? |
| 09:37.59 | ScaredyCat | the gtk eyecandy |
| 09:38.13 | josch | yu mean the icons on the bottom |
| 09:38.58 | ScaredyCat | iirc move your gtkrc out of the way and reboot |
| 09:39.18 | ScaredyCat | mickeyl: much more finger friendly |
| 09:39.19 | josch | ScaredyCat, but then this is a gtk issue and not python |
| 09:39.29 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac04792.bb.sky.com) |
| 09:39.49 | ScaredyCat | yes, but that'll allow you to see the speed difference between a c app and a python app clearly |
| 09:40.30 | josch | okay, will try |
| 09:40.37 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (i=5512ea02@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-6994e735c36e562d) |
| 09:41.18 | josch | ScaredyCat, /usr/share/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkrc ? |
| 09:41.51 | ScaredyCat | yeah, think that's it... just mv it to a different name |
| 09:42.00 | josch | rebooting |
| 09:42.26 | ScaredyCat | you probbly could have just restarted the wm, but hey :P |
| 09:42.40 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAADF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:44.57 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 09:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 09:45.38 | josch | ScaredyCat, well the icons are still there but the rest of the theme is not |
| 09:45.57 | josch | ScaredyCat, and now there really is NO speed difference (except on startup) |
| 09:47.46 | josch | ScaredyCat, I can send you my source so you can make sure that using python has no impact on the interface speed |
| 09:48.35 | ScaredyCat | k, seems slow to me, maybe you just write better python :) |
| 09:49.04 | hachi | when I single tap on power fast, the interface switches to 'open moko please wait' |
| 09:49.16 | hachi | and then if I hit power or aux, x11 crashes :) |
| 09:49.35 | josch | ScaredyCat, there is no python behind it - the interface is using glade |
| 09:49.46 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 09:49.56 | ScaredyCat | souce for it ? |
| 09:50.14 | josch | ScaredyCat, the glade file: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/glade.glade |
| 09:50.38 | josch | ScaredyCat, the python code: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/pyPhone.py |
| 09:51.17 | *** join/#openmoko dexterr (i=dexter@ua-83-227-175-53.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:51.26 | ScaredyCat | ty, will have a play :) |
| 09:51.30 | josch | ^^ |
| 09:51.55 | josch | beware: startup is like 4secs |
| 09:52.11 | ScaredyCat | ouch |
| 09:52.28 | josch | 3secs |
| 09:52.54 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@bl14-254-138.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 09:52.57 | josch | wow, without gtkrc openmoko is finally usable! |
| 09:53.31 | dexterr | Oh, there was actually some activity in this channel :) |
| 09:53.33 | dexterr | How nice |
| 09:55.51 | hachi | what's what? |
| 09:55.59 | *** join/#openmoko sarnoso (n=sarnoso@193.146.28.102) |
| 09:57.01 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 09:59.28 | ScaredyCat | josch: pygsmd ? |
| 10:00.14 | josch | ScaredyCat, ah... just remove the lines |
| 10:00.27 | josch | pygsmd is the python binding for gsmd |
| 10:01.24 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 10:01.48 | *** join/#openmoko d1 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 10:01.55 | ScaredyCat | are there any other deps ? |
| 10:03.37 | josch | ScaredyCat, pygtk, gtk, gtk.glade |
| 10:07.08 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 10:09.36 | hachi | what editor do I use on my phone? |
| 10:09.50 | hachi | oh, vi is there |
| 10:09.52 | hachi | nevermind |
| 10:18.21 | josch | ScaredyCat, paste sie mal hier |
| 10:18.35 | josch | ScaredyCat, sry |
| 10:18.41 | josch | ScaredyCat, past them here |
| 10:19.34 | hachi | anything to make my moko phone boot faster? |
| 10:19.34 | ScaredyCat | http://pastebin.ca/773190 |
| 10:20.37 | josch | ScaredyCat, sry that was an outdated glade file |
| 10:21.17 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 10:22.28 | josch | ScaredyCat, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/glade.glade |
| 10:23.49 | ScaredyCat | ok, now it works :) |
| 10:23.55 | josch | excellent |
| 10:25.35 | fgau | cool, sms icons :) |
| 10:27.36 | josch | fgau, well... not rly |
| 10:27.50 | josch | fgau, the icons will be displayed if they are part of the openmoko theme |
| 10:28.46 | *** join/#openmoko puppe_ (n=patrik@sestofw01.enea.se) |
| 10:29.03 | puppe_ | I'm having build problems, qith sqlite 3.4.1 |
| 10:29.14 | puppe_ | Task failed: Fetch failed: http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite-3.4.1.tar.gz |
| 10:29.32 | puppe_ | the file doesn't exist on that server any more :( |
| 10:29.39 | josch | yeah 404 |
| 10:29.56 | flexd | josch: that .glade file? what is that? |
| 10:29.59 | puppe_ | any workaround? |
| 10:30.18 | *** join/#openmoko esben_ (n=esben@87.62.18.129) |
| 10:30.32 | josch | flexd, ScaredyCat wanted a proof that a python gtk interface is in no means slower than c gtk |
| 10:31.35 | ScaredyCat | I estimate 5 secs to start |
| 10:31.42 | flexd | python gtk is just nice :< |
| 10:32.10 | Ghiottone|work | puppe try building the newer version |
| 10:33.02 | josch | ScaredyCat, as I said - starting is painfull but the interface is as fast as in c |
| 10:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 10:33.51 | ScaredyCat | i found a python glade code generator... but you can't actually dl it :? |
| 10:33.53 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 10:34.02 | CM | puppe_: Get it from somewhere else, like http://cs.emich.edu/mbsd/mports/distfiles/sqlite-3.4.1.tar.gz |
| 10:34.41 | flexd | josch: how would this program actually look on the phone? |
| 10:34.55 | josch | flexd, http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/pyPhone_Dialer.png |
| 10:35.10 | hachi | what's the deal with the boot menu for 'set console to usb' ? |
| 10:35.18 | hachi | does it actually work? |
| 10:35.27 | flexd | josch: that does look awsome |
| 10:35.36 | flexd | does gtk stuff automatically get that style when you put in on the phone? |
| 10:35.46 | flexd | If not i'm worried my stuff will look like complete crap |
| 10:35.47 | josch | flexd, it's only gtk that does the work - I just clicked it together in glade |
| 10:36.01 | josch | no, the theming is done automatically |
| 10:36.06 | flexd | great. |
| 10:36.31 | josch | ScaredyCat, is using generated code faster than glade? |
| 10:36.59 | flexd | josch: then atleast i dont have to worry with my stuff looking like complete shit. |
| 10:37.00 | ScaredyCat | dunno : can't get the generator.. |
| 10:37.03 | puppe_ | CM: Thanks for the URL, i figured out how to patch the bb-file for sqlite 3.4.1 to get past the 404 error |
| 10:37.09 | josch | I think if I let python let generating the interface it will be slower than using glade with the gtk.glade C library |
| 10:38.36 | flexd | josch: is it possible to get this program into qemu? |
| 10:38.53 | josch | flexd, can not think of any problems |
| 10:39.08 | josch | flexd, just install python on your qemu image |
| 10:43.51 | ScaredyCat | http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1292608,00.html |
| 10:44.54 | josch | OT but funny ^^ |
| 10:45.54 | josch | ScaredyCat, about the startup issue... mickeyl suggested using something like a preloader to overcome this in the future |
| 10:46.29 | ScaredyCat | make sense I suppose... |
| 10:49.39 | hachi | does v4 have a hardware bug preventing poweroff? (screen flicker?) |
| 10:52.53 | ScaredyCat | mmmm.... my neo just rebooted |
| 10:57.44 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 11:00.37 | ScaredyCat | no hachi |
| 11:01.01 | ScaredyCat | is it plugged into usb without a battery? |
| 11:01.13 | ScaredyCat | that would be bad |
| 11:01.21 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F607AC.versanet.de) |
| 11:01.22 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:02.18 | josch | Sup3rkiddo!!! Come online!!!!!!!!!! |
| 11:11.09 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-1126.bb.online.no) |
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| 11:14.02 | flexd | hmmmmmmm |
| 11:14.20 | flexd | I think im gonna try putting OM on my ipaq 3360 today :< |
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| 11:20.20 | ScaredyCat | my neo keeps rebooting :/ |
| 11:22.05 | ixs | ScaredyCat: congratulations., |
| 11:22.24 | ixs | I can tell you exactly how you can convert it to "keeps not booting". |
| 11:22.26 | ixs | interested? ;D |
| 11:23.13 | ScaredyCat | no, I'm interested in why it just reboots every so often... |
| 11:23.19 | ScaredyCat | have you been coding again ? |
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| 11:24.14 | ixs | ScaredyCat: nah, I've been playing with the bootloader... |
| 11:24.39 | ScaredyCat | that's not a good thing... .just ask torpor |
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| 11:31.37 | flexd | hmm |
| 11:31.49 | flexd | does anyone remember how you use the desktop cube thing in compiz? ;o |
| 11:32.38 | captainwoot | ctrl+alt+<arrow-key/left mousebutton>? |
| 11:33.06 | flexd | captainwoot: ctrl+alt+arrows make me change workspace |
| 11:33.10 | flexd | mouse button does nothing |
| 11:33.37 | captainwoot | it should rotate the cube |
| 11:37.02 | flexd | doesnt |
| 11:37.21 | captainwoot | have you activated the cube plugin in the configuration? |
| 11:38.22 | flexd | dunno |
| 11:39.14 | captainwoot | start the configuration program with `ccsm` from a terminal window |
| 11:39.21 | captainwoot | look for cube plugin |
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| 11:47.06 | ScaredyCat | ya, ctrl+alt+arrows |
| 11:47.24 | ScaredyCat | or ctrl + alt + lmb + move mouse |
| 11:47.24 | flexd | had to enable it :< |
| 11:47.35 | flexd | and now im disabling |
| 11:47.37 | flexd | cause it sucked |
| 11:47.55 | ScaredyCat | the super e is better imho |
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| 11:48.23 | flexd | ye |
| 11:50.20 | captainwoot | indeed |
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| 12:38.25 | josch | flexd, ping |
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| 12:49.59 | hhf423 | moin |
| 12:50.24 | hhf423 | so how long will it take for someone to port Adroid to Neo1973, any bets yet? |
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| 12:51.10 | hhf423 | s/fattend/flattend |
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| 12:51.33 | esben_ | hhf423: it is not that easy to port it when you don't get the source code.... |
| 12:52.01 | esben_ | the main part of android, ie. the java vm and framework/libs are not opensource (yet) |
| 12:54.11 | hhf423 | ah, so the stuff goes onto the phones by the vendor signing NDA's or by Google porting it? |
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| 12:58.52 | josch | the palm Z22 display covers/protectors/foils (don't know how they are called in english) are nearly fitting for the neo1973 - they are only 2mm too high but this can be cut off easily |
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| 13:00.53 | flexd | josch: pong |
| 13:01.42 | flexd | josch, ping |
| 13:01.47 | josch | flexd, I've shown you my python dialer app - I'm also looking for a method to handle my program code separately - did you find a solution? |
| 13:02.01 | flexd | no, i havent tried much |
| 13:02.03 | flexd | at work :( |
| 13:03.04 | flexd | but will try more later |
| 13:03.16 | flexd | one solution might be to make a background process though |
| 13:03.40 | flexd | that runs in the bg, then the gui just fetches info from it |
| 13:03.56 | josch | with threads |
| 13:04.05 | flexd | or two programs |
| 13:04.12 | flexd | a daemon running in the bg all the time |
| 13:04.25 | flexd | taking commands from the gui by some sort of something (no idea), maybe a socket or something |
| 13:06.11 | flexd | im sure someone good at programming stuff in om, like <insert dev person here> (i dont know any names :/) |
| 13:06.19 | flexd | mickeyl perhaps? |
| 13:06.28 | flexd | could answer it better |
| 13:06.49 | flexd | but i know programs like evolution do that, have a bg process and the gui is just a frontend |
| 13:08.39 | josch | well for now I have to focus on searching for a tutorial that creates python callbacks in sup3kiddo's pygsmd gms binding |
| 13:08.40 | mickeyl | josch: which code do you want to split into what? |
| 13:08.59 | josch | mickeyl, I don't want to split any code |
| 13:09.11 | flexd | his pyPhone and the actual program i think, so gui and stuff can run separately without freezing? |
| 13:09.40 | flexd | mickeyl: uhm let me use my bot as a example; |
| 13:09.41 | josch | I wanted to help sup3rkiddo on programming his pygsmd binding and he has no idea how to do the event handling stuff |
| 13:09.52 | flexd | nevermind me ^ |
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| 13:10.20 | mickeyl | who sends events to whom? |
| 13:10.43 | flexd | pygsmd sends events to the binding which is supposed to send them to the program? |
| 13:11.28 | josch | for now my app uses functions from pygsmd to do things like looking up the operator etc - this works fine |
| 13:11.38 | mickeyl | ah wait, now i see |
| 13:11.42 | mickeyl | you have a pygmsd |
| 13:11.43 | josch | but I have to be able to know when some event occurs |
| 13:11.49 | mickeyl | as replacement for gsmd? |
| 13:11.53 | josch | no |
| 13:12.03 | josch | it needs gsmd |
| 13:12.13 | mickeyl | is it a seperate process? |
| 13:12.17 | josch | it's more a replacement for libgsmd-tools |
| 13:12.31 | josch | no, it's included in the python app that uses it |
| 13:12.39 | flexd | a python binding to gsmd would be the correct term? |
| 13:12.44 | josch | jepp |
| 13:12.48 | mickeyl | aha |
| 13:12.55 | mickeyl | in that case i suggest using python threads |
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| 13:13.06 | josch | okay |
| 13:13.15 | flexd | but, how can you e.g call the gui in a thread and then be able to send signals to it? |
| 13:13.16 | mickeyl | and a either threading.event or threading.queue to signal events from one thread to another |
| 13:13.18 | josch | and a while true loop that checks for an event |
| 13:13.27 | josch | okay |
| 13:13.47 | mickeyl | you can inject file descriptors to watch for into the gtk main loop |
| 13:13.58 | josch | file descriptors? |
| 13:14.27 | mickeyl | unix file descriptors |
| 13:14.35 | mickeyl | files |
| 13:14.35 | mickeyl | pipes |
| 13:14.37 | mickeyl | sockets |
| 13:14.49 | josch | will first learn how to do threading |
| 13:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:15.19 | edistar | PalmOS emulation on maemo :) |
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| 13:18.38 | josch | does anybody know how to remove the bubbles from under my display foil? |
| 13:19.10 | CM | Take away the protective plastig? |
| 13:19.13 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 13:19.14 | CM | Plastic |
| 13:19.48 | josch | is such a foil called "protective plastic"? |
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| 13:20.10 | edistar | josch: if it protects your screen.. |
| 13:20.39 | josch | edistar, I'm no native english speaker - I do not know how this foil is called |
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| 13:21.08 | edistar | josch: I think you can call it anything you want, as long as people understand :) |
| 13:21.37 | josch | so... does anyone know a simple trick how to remove all the nasty bubbles? |
| 13:22.11 | edistar | josch: you can take it off and put it on again? |
| 13:23.18 | josch | edistar, if this would lead to success I wouldn't ask ^^ |
| 13:23.42 | edistar | josch: heh ;) put it on again with a ruler, sliding it on while you put on the foil.. that's what I did with my camera |
| 13:24.14 | josch | maybe my foil is just not quality stuff ^^ |
| 13:24.45 | edistar | hehe |
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| 13:51.52 | yoyo | helo world |
| 13:52.03 | CM | :) |
| 13:55.34 | anrp | helo? |
| 13:55.40 | anrp | that is old protocol |
| 13:55.44 | anrp | EHLO is the new goodness D: |
| 13:55.48 | edistar | better than halo |
| 13:59.18 | zash | SYN |
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| 13:59.24 | ScaredyCat | ACK |
| 14:00.08 | anrp | 451 4.7.1 Service unavailable - try again later |
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| 14:14.22 | PwrKroll | Morning all! |
| 14:15.05 | yoyo | time zones are funy :) |
| 14:15.09 | PwrKroll | Does anyone know if Android would be viable on an OpenMoko? |
| 14:15.13 | PwrKroll | i know right |
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| 14:16.31 | mjr | The vm would presumably be able to be ported (effort unknown) if it were free. More android stuff, please go to #android |
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| 14:17.59 | zoolooc | shouldn't that stuff run on any linux, which is in fact what the're doing, only that they try to hide it from the GUI? |
| 14:18.54 | ScaredyCat | gort! |
| 14:19.01 | PwrKroll | Yeah, im not really into the Android "g-phone", I have been enammered with OpenMoko since the start, I just had that thought pop in my head and decided to question of you folks. |
| 14:19.24 | balrog-kun | you mean Android on Neo1973? yes |
| 14:19.39 | balrog-kun | because OpenMoko is an OS, like Android |
| 14:19.41 | ScaredyCat | I think once you start digging, android isn't so 'pretty' |
| 14:19.46 | zoolooc | I just need their kernel (slightly modified) to be able to run maybe, OpenMoko |
| 14:20.01 | ScaredyCat | kernel is available |
| 14:20.16 | ScaredyCat | it's in their git repo |
| 14:20.21 | zoolooc | well yes, I've seen it in git |
| 14:20.29 | zash | the real question is, will android-based phones run openmoko? |
| 14:20.31 | zoolooc | nevertheless, it's not yet Kaiser-ready |
| 14:20.41 | yoyo | android using java ... hyyy it while by slow |
| 14:20.54 | balrog-kun | zash: there's no reason they wouldn't |
| 14:21.04 | zoolooc | there is no android-"based" phone, and will never be |
| 14:21.20 | zoolooc | android is just on top of linux |
| 14:21.34 | zash | zoolooc: as in phone-that-ships-with-android |
| 14:21.48 | zoolooc | alright |
| 14:23.23 | PwrKroll | cool, thank you all for discussing this! |
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| 14:25.27 | *** join/#openmoko mrking (n=kvirc@cm136.epsilon104.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 14:29.22 | mrking | Just got to realise OpenEzx today, and through several readings, it looks real cool |
| 14:29.40 | mrking | and i want to get involve in it |
| 14:30.02 | mrking | but it seems to be difficult to find information on how to put the OS into the phone |
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| 14:35.57 | hrw | Android kernel is also in Poky |
| 14:36.21 | hrw | we already started Poky with android kernel - inside of android emulator |
| 14:36.28 | mrking | i get to know openmoko through android :) |
| 14:36.49 | hrw | mrking: and then openexz due to openmoko? |
| 14:37.30 | mrking | bingo ! |
| 14:37.31 | mrking | hahaha |
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| 14:37.50 | mrking | am doing lotsa reading |
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| 14:53.37 | josch | does anybody know which timezone sup3rkiddo lives in? |
| 14:53.48 | CM | Might be india |
| 14:54.49 | CM | But I'm just guessing ;) |
| 14:54.58 | josch | I thought so |
| 14:56.28 | yoyo | by |
| 14:57.16 | ScaredyCat | you try to help people ... |
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| 15:06.36 | PP|Spydon | I have a 8gb microSD card will it work on the GTA02? |
| 15:07.11 | borg_ | probably |
| 15:07.32 | mwester | Since the GTA02 doesn't yet exist, the question is somewhat acedemic. But we expect that the 8GB cards should work, since the 6GB cards appear to work on the GTA01 |
| 15:08.00 | PP|Spydon | have anyone tried a 8gb card on GTA01 then? :P |
| 15:08.38 | PP|Spydon | But if it doesn't work can I format it to 6gb? |
| 15:08.39 | kristian-m | mwester is there any difference in the SD protocol from 4 GB upward? |
| 15:09.00 | PP|Spydon | only if it's SDhc I think |
| 15:09.05 | mwester | I think they are the same protocol. |
| 15:09.26 | PP|Spydon | sd and sdhc? |
| 15:09.29 | kristian-m | wel, then it should be okay, i guess, right? |
| 15:09.50 | PP|Spydon | nice |
| 15:09.54 | _diego_ | up to 2GB they are SD, above sdhc |
| 15:10.00 | mwester | Probably. No guarantee that there aren't protocol or timing issues that are currently unknown. |
| 15:10.11 | PP|Spydon | no I don't think they are _diego_ |
| 15:10.29 | _diego_ | so i suppose that if 6gb works, u have the same chance with 8gb |
| 15:10.37 | Lynet | Same protocol. Only difference is SDHC = fat32 and block instead of byte adressing mode, afaik. |
| 15:10.41 | mwester | There shouldn't be any problems, but we enter uncharted territory for many devices (not just the neo) with these very large SD cards. |
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| 15:11.18 | PP|Spydon | ok |
| 15:11.53 | PP|Spydon | so If i reformat a sd card to fat32 and blocks it will be sdhc? :P |
| 15:12.11 | mwester | PP|Spydon: No. |
| 15:12.28 | PP|Spydon | ok... :P |
| 15:12.32 | Lynet | You can't "reformat to block mode" |
| 15:12.40 | PP|Spydon | I see |
| 15:12.42 | mwester | PP|Spydon: The protocol between the host and the card changes to block-addressing, it has nothing to do with the file-system on the card. |
| 15:12.58 | PP|Spydon | i see |
| 15:13.19 | PP|Spydon | which filesystem should I have on my card then do you think? :P |
| 15:13.24 | Lynet | Yeah. "block" vs "byte" mode is a change in the protocol between the card and the controller on how it requests chunks of data. |
| 15:13.36 | PP|Spydon | because it doesn't have any filesystem yet... |
| 15:14.06 | _diego_ | ext3 i suppose |
| 15:14.12 | Lynet | Spydon: Well. Fat16 if you want the card to be read/writable in pretty much any device. |
| 15:14.29 | mwester | PP|Spydon: Use the same reasoning you would apply to a hard drive with similar capacity. Frankly, I use ext3 for any capacity because the SD card is not really swappable on the Neo due to it's physical placement. |
| 15:14.30 | _diego_ | if u want to use with neo only |
| 15:15.20 | PP|Spydon | yes I only want it on the neo :) |
| 15:16.17 | Lynet | Then pick whatever fs that the kernel in the neo supports. :) |
| 15:16.39 | kristian-m | wow there are 16 GB SD cards in stores, by now - but I only see microSD at 2 GB |
| 15:16.57 | buz | there are definitely 6GB microsdhc available |
| 15:17.00 | kristian-m | nice |
| 15:17.06 | buz | and you can preorder 8GB |
| 15:17.15 | kristian-m | :-) |
| 15:18.39 | Lynet | 4GB microsd has been avail for a while. |
| 15:19.16 | zoolooc | yeah, the're really cool |
| 15:20.03 | zoolooc | sandisk ships them together with adapter and reader,'cause older readers can't do with them |
| 15:20.07 | PP|Spydon | I have a 8gb sd card already, buz |
| 15:20.14 | Lynet | With the way they are going, it won't take long before they hit the 32GB sdhc limit. |
| 15:20.22 | buz | i understand theres limited volume available |
| 15:20.52 | buz | PP|Spydon: does it work with neo? |
| 15:21.35 | PP|Spydon | I don't have a neo :P |
| 15:22.24 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@193.110.157.17) |
| 15:22.25 | buz | seems kinda disingenious to have a 32GB limit in a new standard |
| 15:22.34 | *** join/#openmoko hexa (n=hexa@67.70.246.100) |
| 15:22.45 | buz | i'm wondering why nobody does an UMS based card technology |
| 15:22.58 | Lynet | I *think* it is a fat32/windows issue, not a limit on the block addressing mode. |
| 15:23.08 | buz | could be |
| 15:23.19 | buz | i've had weird results with fat32>32gb for sure |
| 15:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 15:23.34 | buz | (weirder than usual that is) |
| 15:23.40 | edistar | buz: you mean fat32 can't have partitions bigger than 32gb? |
| 15:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 15:23.53 | buz | edistar: technically i believe it can do 128GB |
| 15:23.57 | buz | but at 32GB something weird happens |
| 15:24.04 | kW | i have a 60GB fat partition |
| 15:24.05 | Lynet | You can technically have 32gb+ fat32, but win won't format bigger, and some software has issues. |
| 15:24.06 | edistar | buz: ok, nice to know |
| 15:24.06 | buz | or maybe its just a windows limitation |
| 15:24.20 | _diego_ | you can have more 128Gb fat partition, but windows refuse to mount them ^^ |
| 15:24.21 | *** part/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@newhost71-064.imm.dtu.dk) |
| 15:24.26 | kW | it is not a technical limitation, it is just a policy of the windows format software |
| 15:24.36 | buz | not too stupid really |
| 15:24.37 | edistar | ah, ok |
| 15:24.45 | buz | they should have put the limit at 8GB really ;9 |
| 15:24.53 | zoolooc | have you buy "NT thchnology" |
| 15:25.00 | kW | _diego_: are you sure windows refuses to mount or windows refuses to format? |
| 15:25.06 | buz | not that i really care, my neo sd is gonna be ext2 anyhow |
| 15:25.18 | buz | refused to format, mount is ok |
| 15:25.26 | edistar | mine will be ext2 too... I heard that journaling on a card is not that good |
| 15:25.28 | buz | now that i think of it |
| 15:25.31 | Lynet | Question is.. which fs to go to past 32GB. Must be universally supported since the cards will be used in heaps and loads of different devices. |
| 15:25.43 | _diego_ | kW: i'm quite sure it refuese to mount, i've tried it with win2000 |
| 15:25.44 | buz | none really |
| 15:25.58 | buz | i think i have mounted a 200GB fat32 usb drive just fine |
| 15:25.58 | kW | _diego_: okay |
| 15:25.58 | Lynet | ext3 might actually have a golden opportunity there. |
| 15:26.15 | buz | i suggest we stick zfs into everything :P |
| 15:26.35 | kW | .tar.gz directly on the device... ;-) |
| 15:26.35 | Lynet | or perhaps something bsd licensed, to make implementation cheap and fast. |
| 15:26.43 | edistar | Lynet: NTFS for win, apple fs(can't remember the name), ext* and xfs maybe, others won't be readable with most OS's |
| 15:26.44 | buz | UFS2 aint too bad |
| 15:27.06 | buz | hfs sucks nearly as badly as FAT |
| 15:27.10 | ScaredyCat | ffs is better :P |
| 15:27.17 | _diego_ | fatfs is quite easy to support, so embedded device love fat |
| 15:27.40 | edistar | isn't there a special fs for usb drives and storage cards? |
| 15:27.41 | buz | for most embedded device fat is good enough |
| 15:27.50 | buz | not that i know of |
| 15:27.55 | Lynet | edistar: "fat" |
| 15:28.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1008 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de |
| 15:28.01 | cdbot2 | * * Improve power consumption during suspend |
| 15:28.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1008 |
| 15:28.06 | buz | fat is named wrongly, should be named "thin" |
| 15:28.26 | Lynet | Nah. Faulty Allocation Table is the appropriate name. |
| 15:28.39 | edistar | Lynet: I mean specially designed for usb/storage flash |
| 15:28.41 | buz | thats true |
| 15:28.53 | buz | edistar: there's JFFS2 and logfs but neither of them is very widely used |
| 15:29.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1009 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de |
| 15:29.02 | cdbot2 | * * Improve power consumption during suspend (userland part) |
| 15:29.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1009 |
| 15:29.16 | buz | JFFS2 needs scanning the whole fs upon mount so that one is entirely useless |
| 15:29.21 | anrp | flash filesystems don't make sense on SD, since SD provides a block-lookalike interface |
| 15:29.30 | nbd | jffs2 can store a summary |
| 15:29.30 | Lynet | edistar: You have some flashfs-thingies, but they are mostly useful on "raw" flash devices. USB-sticks and the like do wear-leveling themselves. |
| 15:29.31 | anrp | and (usually) does sector remapping internally to the card |
| 15:29.33 | nbd | to shortcut the mount time |
| 15:29.38 | buz | except for dumb nand chips, everything does block level interfacing |
| 15:29.42 | edistar | Lynet: ok, thx |
| 15:29.59 | buz | and supposedly wear leveling, too |
| 15:30.12 | edistar | what is the difference between mmc and SD? |
| 15:30.16 | buz | if wear leveling is any good, 8GB swap is gonna last a long time |
| 15:30.23 | buz | edistar: sd can have drm of some sort |
| 15:30.30 | buz | electrically its the same |
| 15:30.45 | Lynet | Name, some spec changes, some unused drm thingie in SD. Oh, and I believe different standards org. |
| 15:30.57 | edistar | why isn't there a microsdhc wikipedia entry :( |
| 15:31.08 | buz | because its sdhc in microsd formfactor |
| 15:31.10 | anrp | sdhc is a protocol superset of sd |
| 15:31.20 | anrp | microsd is just another form factor for more of the same |
| 15:31.30 | buz | is minisd dead, btw? |
| 15:31.35 | anrp | not really D: |
| 15:31.44 | buz | havent come across it in a long time |
| 15:31.49 | anrp | its still used sometimes |
| 15:31.54 | anrp | micro is smaller and mmm cheap |
| 15:32.16 | buz | aside of size, microsd isnt much more expensive anymore |
| 15:32.31 | edistar | and whats the point of minisd if there is microsd |
| 15:32.43 | anrp | minisd allows for more capacity since it's physically larger |
| 15:32.46 | Lynet | edistar: Because. Different form factors. |
| 15:32.48 | anrp | same with normal sd vs other two |
| 15:32.58 | edistar | ok |
| 15:33.16 | anrp | mini/normal sd is also slightly more robust since the circuit board is enclosed in a case instead of just epoxied |
| 15:33.25 | edistar | ah, ok, thx |
| 15:33.29 | buz | i think when they came up with mini, flash was too big for microsd to be useful |
| 15:33.40 | buz | and much easier to handle |
| 15:33.45 | buz | microsd really is too small |
| 15:33.49 | anrp | f*ing microsd |
| 15:34.05 | edistar | heh |
| 15:34.17 | Lynet | I kinda like micro, so much more fun to try to find the darn things. |
| 15:34.24 | edistar | weird that sometime soon there will be 32gb on such a small space |
| 15:34.35 | anrp | i say, back in the old days ... ! |
| 15:34.39 | edistar | I have rs-mmc in my mobile.. |
| 15:34.50 | edistar | the same as in n770 :) |
| 15:35.09 | Lynet | Then again, there's the hey cool factor of storing a omgwtf amount on something the size of a fingernail. |
| 15:35.23 | anrp | its also good for embedded datalogging |
| 15:35.37 | anrp | trying to source small quantities of multi-gbit chips is an exercise in futility |
| 15:35.43 | buz | Lynet: yeah, whole dvds in less than a fingernail |
| 15:35.52 | anrp | but microsd is common |
| 15:35.56 | anrp | just need spi and bam D: |
| 15:36.07 | buz | microsd raid :P |
| 15:36.40 | edistar | buz: 20 cards in a raid 0 ;) should be fast enough :P |
| 15:36.48 | anrp | should be way fast D: |
| 15:36.51 | Lynet | How come someone hasn't made a pci or whatever card with 8-16 sd/mini/micro slots to do a bring-your-own-storage SSD raid? |
| 15:36.52 | buz | access times would be smoking |
| 15:37.05 | buz | noise level and powerconsumption as well |
| 15:37.06 | anrp | i-RAM D: |
| 15:37.12 | buz | its just that small thing, price ;) |
| 15:37.31 | edistar | buz: yes... how much are 8gb cards? |
| 15:37.32 | anrp | <$10us per gb is beginning to smell very good for main drives |
| 15:37.32 | buz | yeah someone should do an expresscard that can house 16 microsdhc cards |
| 15:37.38 | buz | edistar about 60EUR |
| 15:37.46 | edistar | buz: that's reasonable.. |
| 15:37.57 | buz | not compared to 500GB SATA |
| 15:38.11 | Lynet | Pah. Compared to what you have to pay for pre-populated SSD, a card with SD-slots would pay for itself after one rev of capacity increase. |
| 15:38.12 | anrp | for your massive fully-legal media collection? |
| 15:38.14 | anrp | ;o |
| 15:38.29 | buz | actually, where i live, media collections are thought to be legal |
| 15:38.30 | edistar | buz: well... you could have a small/fast drive and a big one for storage |
| 15:38.48 | buz | edistar: when 32GB SSD are available for 100EUR, I'll put one in my dell notebook |
| 15:38.51 | anrp | i did that with my home machine, CF boot and magnetic data storage |
| 15:39.14 | buz | push to shove, 16GB might work too |
| 15:39.16 | edistar | buz: then I'll get a pcmcia card and use it as sda in my notebook :) |
| 15:39.23 | buz | edistar: exactly |
| 15:39.29 | buz | only that i want expresscard ;) |
| 15:39.35 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@131.151.32.81) |
| 15:39.49 | edistar | buz: heh ;) how fast is pcmcia or expresscard? |
| 15:39.59 | buz | expresscard theoretically can do PCI-e1x |
| 15:40.03 | anrp | pcmcia == pci, expresscard == pci-e or usb |
| 15:40.06 | buz | which is 266MByte/s afaik |
| 15:40.14 | edistar | buz: I think there are even sata adapters so you can use your card as sata drive.. |
| 15:40.14 | buz | pcmcia is ata i believe |
| 15:40.34 | anrp | pcmcia is a full on pci interface D: |
| 15:40.38 | anrp | with hotswap |
| 15:40.39 | edistar | ok |
| 15:40.45 | buz | then wtf can you stick compactflash into pcmcia |
| 15:41.04 | anrp | CF cards are 16 bit, which is pcmcia1.0 |
| 15:41.06 | anrp | which isn't pci |
| 15:41.12 | anrp | pcmcia2 is pci .. didnt specify that |
| 15:41.16 | buz | right, that one is ata |
| 15:41.40 | edistar | ah |
| 15:41.43 | buz | edistar: i dont care for a sata adapter, i want to keep the sata hd |
| 15:42.54 | edistar | buz: yeah, true, I'll keep my (new) drive too.. for storage it's quite useful |
| 15:42.55 | Lynet | Original PCMCIA was ISA, wasn't it? Cardbus = PCI, Expresscard = PCI-E |
| 15:43.07 | anrp | ISA D: |
| 15:43.14 | anrp | i don't think it was isa... but i'm not sure |
| 15:43.26 | buz | i'm pretty sure its ATA |
| 15:43.33 | buz | you can stick ata drives in there without adapter |
| 15:43.45 | buz | i should rip open my old ipod and try that someday |
| 15:43.58 | Lynet | *cheats and checks wikipedia* |
| 15:44.01 | XorA | PCMCIA has an ISA and an ATA mode |
| 15:44.14 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D9846.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:44.25 | buz | expresscard is a pretty smart design |
| 15:44.35 | Lynet | "The original standard was built around an 'enhanced' 16-bit ISA bus platform." |
| 15:44.39 | buz | usb so you can use a shitload of peripherals, pci-e for the fast stuff |
| 15:44.54 | edistar | wikipedia says sdhc has a theoretical maximum storage of 2TB |
| 15:45.02 | anrp | ah, but, ATA was originally designed to connect directly to an ISA bus |
| 15:45.03 | buz | so 32GB comes from fat32 |
| 15:45.04 | anrp | so you are both right D: |
| 15:45.17 | buz | ah didnt know that about ATA |
| 15:45.23 | buz | would explain why ata sucks so badly |
| 15:45.42 | CM | anrp: D: != :D `or? |
| 15:45.52 | anrp | erm |
| 15:45.58 | anrp | habit |
| 15:46.05 | ScaredyCat | monk? |
| 15:46.12 | anrp | supposedly unhappy face |
| 15:46.14 | CM | Hehe, ok, just curious sine you write it a lot :P |
| 15:46.27 | anrp | not really unhappy tho D: just a space filler |
| 15:47.28 | mwester | You must you D: unless you have purchased the standard frown face. |
| 15:47.54 | ScaredyCat | it's semi-opensource, a bit like Android |
| 15:47.58 | mwester | http://www.despair.com/frownies.html |
| 15:48.09 | edistar | heh |
| 15:48.22 | anrp | wot |
| 15:49.48 | ScaredyCat | don;t mos people miss out the - now? |
| 15:49.56 | ScaredyCat | ie :( rather than ;-( |
| 15:50.01 | ScaredyCat | ie :( rather than :-( |
| 15:50.03 | mwester | ;) er I mean :-) |
| 15:50.22 | ScaredyCat | :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( |
| 15:50.29 | mwester | I think you must use :-((tm) |
| 15:50.34 | edistar | ScaredyCat: that unhappy? |
| 15:50.44 | ScaredyCat | always edistar |
| 15:51.16 | ScaredyCat | I always keep razor blades near by, just in case it all gets too much for me |
| 15:51.19 | flexd | wtf |
| 15:51.20 | edistar | because there are no gta-02s yet? ;) |
| 15:51.38 | flexd | banana + chocolate powder = rum/vodka taste ( i dont remember what tastes what >_>) |
| 15:51.53 | anrp | ...wtf? |
| 15:51.54 | anrp | lol |
| 15:52.01 | edistar | urgs.. |
| 15:52.03 | flexd | i know! |
| 15:52.23 | flexd | good though, mmm! |
| 15:53.28 | ScaredyCat | :-(® |
| 15:53.39 | mwester | ooooh, that's good. |
| 15:55.39 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:56.51 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=TAsn@89.1.233.93.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 15:57.36 | anrp | full width characters :o |
| 15:58.48 | CM | buz: btw, did you start talking about those flash disks because of these?: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces-preview-2008/sandisk-vaulter-16gb-ssd-sneaks-in-via-pcie-port-322412.php |
| 16:03.01 | gi-el | flexd: if any, then it's rum. no way banana and chocolate powder gives you a wodka taste |
| 16:03.59 | flexd | gi-el: possibly |
| 16:04.16 | flexd | last alcohol i drank was rum, but that's like ages ago so.. >_> |
| 16:04.21 | flexd | anyway |
| 16:04.47 | flexd | could someone goto http://www.pipebytes.com and try picking up a file? (pick up code: 052827842878) |
| 16:04.59 | flexd | Supposed to be some new cool file sending website, i wanna try it out |
| 16:05.07 | jorgenpt | So's android possible to port yet? |
| 16:05.19 | flexd | #android |
| 16:05.24 | jorgenpt | Hehe, okay ;) |
| 16:05.32 | flexd | noooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 16:05.34 | edistar | jorgenpt: android isn't even released yet.. |
| 16:05.40 | flexd | how the *HELL* did i use 30gb in one day? :( |
| 16:05.51 | gi-el | flexd: is slow |
| 16:06.05 | flexd | it's uploading directly from me |
| 16:06.07 | jorgenpt | edistar: Oh, okay, just an sdk :) |
| 16:06.12 | flexd | relayed trough that site afaik |
| 16:06.23 | edistar | flexd: how did you? |
| 16:06.24 | gi-el | flexd: ah that explains |
| 16:06.31 | flexd | edistar: downloads probably :/ |
| 16:06.35 | gi-el | flexd: still is slow :) |
| 16:06.41 | flexd | but i remember having 30gb free on my external drive last night |
| 16:06.43 | flexd | now there's 141mb :< |
| 16:06.46 | gi-el | flexd: like, 10kb/s |
| 16:06.52 | flexd | gi-el: meh |
| 16:06.59 | flexd | i guess it can be used in desparate times |
| 16:07.03 | gi-el | 15 now |
| 16:07.06 | ScaredyCat | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/blowing-up-stuff/new-frontier-hotel-imploded-before-your-eyes-now-a-nondescript-pile-of-rubble-322476.php |
| 16:07.16 | ScaredyCat | that's cool - countdown in fireworks |
| 16:07.53 | edistar | nice |
| 16:11.17 | edistar | I like the countdown |
| 16:11.25 | CoreDump | very cool |
| 16:11.29 | edistar | should do that at home :P without the dynamite though.. |
| 16:12.02 | CoreDump | it would probably scare the crap out of your neighbours =) |
| 16:12.21 | flexd | i need more harddrives :(, filling up 300gb in 10days = bad |
| 16:12.23 | anrp | ...and? D: |
| 16:12.24 | edistar | yes :) well, I only have 2 neighbours in about 200 yards, and I think they might like it |
| 16:12.33 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 16:12.34 | anrp | things that go boom |
| 16:12.36 | edistar | flexd: 250gb drives only cost 40 euro |
| 16:12.37 | anrp | lots of people like those |
| 16:12.37 | anrp | D: |
| 16:12.48 | flexd | i have tons |
| 16:13.24 | ScaredyCat | dlsmgsgjfkgjklgjg |
| 16:13.32 | edistar | flexd: not enough space in your case? |
| 16:13.58 | flexd | ran out of sata plugs |
| 16:14.16 | edistar | oh, not good |
| 16:14.26 | edistar | flexd: never heard of someone having that problem D: |
| 16:14.41 | CM | flexd: Stop downloading all that pr0n |
| 16:14.43 | flexd | i can probably fit more |
| 16:14.47 | flexd | CM: no pron |
| 16:14.48 | anrp | there's an 8port sata pci-64bit card on the cheap out |
| 16:14.48 | flexd | just shows |
| 16:14.59 | anrp | MV88SX6081 based |
| 16:15.00 | CM | Just teasing :) |
| 16:15.06 | anrp | i got mine for $150 or so? |
| 16:15.09 | flexd | prison break, house, heroes, bionic woman, lost, fallen, kyle xy |
| 16:15.18 | flexd | a few GB a month to put it that way :P |
| 16:15.21 | anrp | think it works in 32bit pci slots as well |
| 16:15.24 | CM | flexd: Good ones, at lest the first seasons.. |
| 16:15.32 | *** join/#openmoko rajivr (n=rajivr@123.252.124.10) |
| 16:17.08 | flexd | mhm |
| 16:17.16 | flexd | dunno how im out of space though |
| 16:17.20 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-149-068.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:17.37 | flexd | 2x 250gb and 300gb drives in this, 500gb++ in my server, all stuffed :/ |
| 16:17.41 | flexd | it's d-day |
| 16:18.09 | edistar | flexd: what are you downloading? |
| 16:18.10 | CM | flexd: How about dumping old series you've already watched? |
| 16:18.27 | edistar | flexd: maybe compress? |
| 16:18.40 | flexd | edistar: maybe |
| 16:18.42 | flexd | CM: maybe |
| 16:19.22 | edistar | flexd: how many TB do you have in total? :P I'd recommend tapes for you ;) |
| 16:19.25 | Tronic | /dev/mapper/big1 5.3T 5.3T 1.7G 100% /mnt/big1 |
| 16:19.32 | anrp | uh oh |
| 16:19.32 | Tronic | Deleting stuff is not an option :P |
| 16:19.38 | flexd | Tronic: give :( |
| 16:19.39 | anrp | nerd dick waving contest |
| 16:20.06 | Tronic | edistar: HDDs are the cheapest way to store large amounts of data. |
| 16:20.28 | Tronic | Tapes and DVDs are much more expensive when you account the work required. |
| 16:20.34 | edistar | Tronic: how many drives do you have? mirrored in any way? |
| 16:20.39 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 16:20.56 | Tronic | big1 = eight 750 GB drives in RAID-5. |
| 16:21.07 | edistar | puh |
| 16:21.15 | edistar | I'm happy with my 500gb NFS ;) |
| 16:21.35 | flexd | 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdd1 166G 122G 36G 78% /mnt/stasj |
| 16:21.35 | flexd | 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdc1 147G 74G 66G 53% /mnt/stasj2 |
| 16:21.35 | flexd | 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdb1 166G 188M 157G 1% /mnt/stasj3 |
| 16:21.37 | flexd | :/ |
| 16:21.52 | flexd | not full anymore! |
| 16:21.55 | edistar | show-offs :P |
| 16:22.09 | Tronic | flexd: How come you actually have hundreds of gigs of free space? |
| 16:22.12 | anrp | uh oh |
| 16:22.13 | anrp | no raid D: |
| 16:22.19 | ScaredyCat | pfffttt |
| 16:22.24 | flexd | Tronic: I deleted a folder called "downloads" |
| 16:22.26 | CoreDump | /dev/dm-1 459G 182G 277G 40% /media/Buffalo 500Gb, yay for external HDDs |
| 16:22.38 | flexd | basically that machine is my backlog of all shit i've downloaded that's pending to get dvd'd |
| 16:22.47 | edistar | btw, is there a better solution than NFS nowadays? |
| 16:23.09 | Tronic | edistar: Not really, AFAIK. CIFS is technically better but the Linux implementation of it is very bad. |
| 16:23.39 | edistar | Tronic: ah, CIFS is MS, isn't it? samba or so? |
| 16:24.03 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 16:25.15 | Tronic | edistar: Microsoft uses it, yes, but they don't own the format. |
| 16:25.47 | Tronic | http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-heizer-cifs-v1-spec-00 |
| 16:26.05 | edistar | thx |
| 16:26.10 | Tronic | There are probably more recent specs, too, but that's what I got. |
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| 16:39.01 | buz | edistar: depends on what you want to do |
| 16:39.19 | buz | i find sshfs quite convenient as it needs no setup whatsoever |
| 16:39.28 | edistar | buz: how does it work? |
| 16:39.31 | buz | but its a resource hog, obviously |
| 16:39.32 | edistar | buz: is it fast? |
| 16:39.34 | edistar | hm |
| 16:39.42 | buz | if cpu is doing encryption fast enough, it's pretty fast |
| 16:39.56 | buz | essentially, it's a fuse layer that talks SFTP i believe |
| 16:40.00 | edistar | fileserver has 2ghz.. should be alright |
| 16:40.07 | buz | plenty fast to stream data then |
| 16:40.21 | buz | but no match for nfs, obviously |
| 16:40.32 | edistar | ok... |
| 16:40.34 | edistar | well, I |
| 16:40.37 | edistar | will see |
| 16:40.54 | buz | SMB is by far the most widely supported one but samba is a weird beast |
| 16:41.09 | edistar | :P |
| 16:42.07 | buz | might also want to take a look at webdav maybe |
| 16:42.07 | *** join/#openmoko Lucas- (n=mattm@i-195-137-68-39.freedom2surf.net) |
| 16:42.55 | edistar | ah, ok |
| 16:43.40 | buz | if compatibility is the main thing, go samba |
| 16:43.46 | buz | if you're paranoid, go sshfs |
| 16:43.54 | edistar | only have mac and linux in my house :) |
| 16:44.03 | buz | not sure if the mac can do fuse these days |
| 16:44.18 | fatal- | openvpn + anything will work also :) |
| 16:44.33 | edistar | fatal-: not a bad idea at all! :) |
| 16:46.04 | *** join/#openmoko osmosis (n=steven@63.139.86.3) |
| 16:47.44 | buz | openvpn is much harder to setup though |
| 16:48.03 | edistar | but more fun :) |
| 16:48.18 | ScaredyCat | sshfs ftw ... |
| 16:48.20 | fatal- | by using static keys, it's not that hugely hard |
| 16:48.23 | ScaredyCat | screw the mac |
| 16:49.34 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 16:50.01 | LarstiQ | fatal-: or use tinc |
| 16:50.37 | buz | largely, vpn is a solution to a ms created problem |
| 16:51.11 | edistar | buz: what do you mean? |
| 16:51.31 | buz | in ms land, protocols often dont come with ssl capabilities |
| 16:51.59 | buz | so often enough, people use it to connect publically accessible hosts |
| 16:52.13 | buz | (it fits a definite need if you want to actually connect NETWORKS though) |
| 16:52.56 | buz | for example, my uni requires you to use VPN to access stuff from home where ssl would do just fine |
| 16:53.48 | edistar | hm, unpractical then |
| 16:53.55 | fatal- | it's not only ms |
| 16:54.08 | fatal- | nfs is not really ssl friendly .. |
| 16:54.51 | edistar | fatal-: nfs is really insecure, but at home nobody will sniff my network or connect.. I would notice ;) |
| 16:55.41 | Tronic | VPN is often better solution than SSL or SSH. |
| 16:56.16 | Tronic | Making a secure connection takes a long time (on slow computers or slow links), but VPN only needs to do that once, where SSL and SSH do it once per connection. |
| 16:57.19 | fatal- | and one can hide the computational load on specialized devices on the edges of the network, if wanted |
| 16:59.19 | kristian-m | Tronic not when you use 'ssh -L' for ssl-tunnels |
| 17:00.37 | Tronic | kristian-m: Well, that's essentially a very simple VPN. |
| 17:00.46 | kristian-m | right |
| 17:01.47 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 17:03.09 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 17:03.46 | *** join/#openmoko Dragorath (n=lappy@86-62-159-22.no.ventelo.net) |
| 17:06.13 | ScaredyCat | -D |
| 17:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178233155.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:09.40 | *** part/#openmoko zoolooc (n=lucian@p5495293F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:12.22 | edistar | anyone have experience with the TI voyage 200 and linux? |
| 17:14.08 | buz | nfs is not really friendly to anything |
| 17:14.18 | buz | starts with the utterly braindead security model |
| 17:15.39 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
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| 17:18.31 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.96.206) |
| 17:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-115-188.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 17:26.21 | josch | ah!!! I understand! the bubbles below my display protection foil are vanishing after a little time |
| 17:26.41 | edistar | josch: hm? good ;) |
| 17:28.14 | edistar | CM: so comparable, sofas and screens ;) |
| 17:28.17 | kristian-m | CM my thoughts too |
| 17:28.20 | ScaredyCat | or murderers |
| 17:28.26 | ScaredyCat | that chop people up |
| 17:28.29 | kristian-m | CM an remotes |
| 17:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 17:28.52 | josch | CM, in fact - without the bubbles the foil is not visible anymore |
| 17:28.54 | CM | Pfff.. It's just that my grandma has her "new" sofa still in the plastic to keep it clean |
| 17:29.16 | CM | josch: And the touchscreen works as good as without? |
| 17:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko b52deb_ (n=b52deb__@41.249.250.195) |
| 17:29.30 | josch | the foil is too thin to make any difference |
| 17:29.44 | josch | I do not even recognize its presence |
| 17:29.47 | CM | Ok. The one that came with the phone sure wasn |
| 17:29.49 | CM | 't |
| 17:30.05 | josch | CM, yes that's the reason I bought new ones |
| 17:30.32 | CM | Well, I'm sure my Neo will break before I scratch the screen that bad |
| 17:31.09 | edistar | I really need some math software for OM, does anyone have any idea what I can port? something like DERIVE |
| 17:31.28 | mmp | edistar: try maxima... |
| 17:31.31 | CM | edistar: Octave? O_o ;) |
| 17:31.38 | josch | edistar, wooo math software is a good idea! |
| 17:31.57 | josch | my personal graphical calculator |
| 17:32.10 | mmp | edistar: I just hope you won't use it to cheat at exams :-P |
| 17:32.14 | kristian-m | i find the screen very resistant - no scratches yet (wood touching) |
| 17:32.27 | edistar | mmp: we are allowed to use CAS calcs at exams.. |
| 17:32.31 | CM | Is't there some nice HP calc emulator or so? |
| 17:32.41 | mmp | edistar: :-) Nice then... |
| 17:32.56 | edistar | mmp: yes, the voyage 200 at the moment |
| 17:33.26 | kristian-m | edistar there is free42 in Alessandros repository |
| 17:34.53 | edistar | kristian-m: free42? |
| 17:35.10 | CM | kristian-m: It was that one I was thinking of http://home.planet.nl/~demun000/thomas_projects/free42/ |
| 17:35.40 | anrp | well are you looking for CAS (maxima, maple, ...) or calculator (matlab, octave, ...) |
| 17:36.48 | edistar | anrp: ideal would be something like DERIVE, CAS, octave doesn't provide that? |
| 17:37.00 | anrp | octave, matlab don't do symbolic |
| 17:37.05 | anrp | well not very well |
| 17:37.21 | edistar | hm, not very practical then.. any OSS software that does? |
| 17:37.26 | anrp | maxima :p |
| 17:37.33 | edistar | is it oss? |
| 17:37.36 | anrp | it is |
| 17:37.42 | edistar | cool |
| 17:37.45 | anrp | lithp, even |
| 17:37.47 | anrp | er.. |
| 17:38.14 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 17:38.16 | pH5 | hey, somebody should create a bitbake recipe for maxima. |
| 17:38.17 | pH5 | is it console based? |
| 17:38.21 | pH5 | and a moko ui :) |
| 17:38.22 | anrp | it is |
| 17:38.33 | anrp | theres an x frontend for it |
| 17:38.34 | anrp | iirc |
| 17:38.36 | anrp | xmaxima? |
| 17:38.40 | anrp | part of the main pkg |
| 17:38.45 | mmp | anders_: wxmaxima too |
| 17:38.54 | mmp | err, anrp :) |
| 17:39.04 | anrp | you can also run it inside emacs but thats not saying much |
| 17:39.05 | flexd | woops |
| 17:39.09 | flexd | killed my ubuntu :( |
| 17:39.20 | flexd | i guess starting 10000000 threads was a bad bad idea |
| 17:39.33 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:39.34 | anrp | TEN MEELION THREADS |
| 17:39.45 | flexd | i ctrl+c but it still freezes :( |
| 17:39.52 | zash | forkbomb? |
| 17:39.59 | anrp | close |
| 17:40.09 | mmp | flexd: just wait for a while, it might settle down:) |
| 17:40.22 | flexd | for x in range(0,10000000000000): blah = MyThread(x) blah.start() |
| 17:40.23 | flexd | wooooo |
| 17:40.35 | anrp | .. |
| 17:40.41 | flexd | that's what i did |
| 17:40.47 | edistar | does maxima use fortan routines? |
| 17:40.47 | zash | Ctrl-Alt-F1, login and do a killall |
| 17:40.48 | anrp | ... why |
| 17:40.49 | anrp | ~_~ |
| 17:40.49 | apt | :/ |
| 17:40.50 | flexd | learning 'bout threads.. :< |
| 17:41.03 | mmp | flexd: you either have massively distributed enviromnent, or massively insane idea |
| 17:41.04 | pH5 | flexd: shouldn't you use xrange for that? ;) |
| 17:41.08 | mmp | :) |
| 17:41.17 | flexd | pH5: should i? |
| 17:41.26 | flexd | mmp: i have a laptop with ubuntu |
| 17:41.31 | Shoragan | flexed, it would be more efficient |
| 17:41.34 | *** join/#openmoko homyx (n=homyx@ppp-88-217-30-221.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:41.45 | flexd | i have no idea what the diffrence between xrange and range is so.. :> |
| 17:42.18 | anrp | the x |
| 17:42.22 | anrp | x makes everything better |
| 17:42.29 | pH5 | flexd: range should create a huge list object, xrange is a generator |
| 17:42.30 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAADF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:42.36 | pH5 | so you can kill your pc while saving memory |
| 17:43.52 | edistar | heh ;) |
| 17:43.56 | flexd | threads seem to be half shabby anyhow |
| 17:44.06 | flexd | starting 1000 threads only a few finish |
| 17:44.20 | flexd | or maybe i cant read, who knows |
| 17:44.26 | zash | threads is evul |
| 17:44.54 | Lucas- | ive a got a little problem when compiling dfu-util on debian, anyone keen to help me? :) |
| 17:44.55 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@81.80-202-132.nextgentel.com) |
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| 17:49.07 | edistar | I don't like xmaxima.. |
| 17:49.10 | edistar | strange software |
| 17:49.16 | pH5 | hm. is there a lisp implementation in OE already? |
| 17:49.50 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
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| 17:57.20 | no_mind | hey is openmoko using EABI on ARM ? |
| 17:57.39 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:57.58 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: yes |
| 17:58.02 | Writchie | openmoko is curretnly EABI - was OABI |
| 17:58.09 | no_mind | hmm |
| 17:58.48 | no_mind | so effectively if i port an for Debain EABI ARM port, it should work on openmoko ? |
| 17:59.23 | Writchie | yes |
| 17:59.24 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: What "an"? |
| 17:59.44 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: If you mean a full debian build, then both should work |
| 18:00.13 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: The kernel should have EABI and OABI fallback enabled. Just mixed userspace is difficult. |
| 18:01.07 | no_mind | stefan_schmidt, an application |
| 18:01.28 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: OK, then make sure it is EABI. |
| 18:02.59 | no_mind | i am working on porting pstco to arm platform and had limited success. Problem is since openmoko is still under development and openmoko build take lot of time and bandwidth, I was thinking of doing all the R&D on debian port and then give openmoko a shot |
| 18:04.39 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: hmm, the question is if you really safe time this way. It's a question how familiar you are with the debian port stuff. |
| 18:05.01 | no_mind | hmm good question |
| 18:05.08 | *** join/#openmoko PP|Spydon (n=lukl@90-227-34-143-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:05.24 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44b520.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 18:05.48 | no_mind | well then what is the alternative ? I dont have access to a phone or ARM hardware as of now and trying any changes on openmoko platform just eats away lot of time |
| 18:06.51 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: bitbake -c devshell gives you a shell with all pathes and stuff for cross compile set. In this shell you can just do make and friends. Should be a real time safer. |
| 18:08.26 | no_mind | ok |
| 18:08.30 | no_mind | let me try |
| 18:09.02 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 18:09.16 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: Of course you need to build the toolchain first. Personally I would build a complete image once and devel on this base |
| 18:10.29 | edistar | stupid question: if I want to develop python apps for OM, how best to do it? |
| 18:11.16 | no_mind | stefan_schmidt, problem is that openmoko is still under development and some times the changes in the svn throw everything out of gear |
| 18:11.42 | no_mind | edistar, what kind of app ? python works out of the box on openmoko but not all pakages are available |
| 18:12.09 | edistar | no_mind: preferably an app that uses gtk, but is wx available too? |
| 18:12.16 | fgau | edistar: build your gui with glade, and use libglade on the neo |
| 18:12.18 | no_mind | edistar, i am the admin for python-openmoko project and we are documenting the process for developing the python apps |
| 18:12.30 | no_mind | edistar, pygtk works on openmoko |
| 18:12.54 | no_mind | edistar, just build the app, create an ipk and inject into the image or device |
| 18:13.26 | edistar | no_mind: cool |
| 18:13.43 | edistar | no_mind: just have to learn how to create ipks, but I suppose that won't be such a great tast |
| 18:13.47 | edistar | s/tast/task |
| 18:14.10 | no_mind | edistar, but beware we are not sure of the python apps on openmoko as of now |
| 18:14.19 | edistar | no_mind: what do you mean? |
| 18:14.34 | Lucas- | im on debian and trying to get dfu-util to compile, i apt 'got' libusb-dev, i even compiled libusb-0.1.12, as i was getting the following err |
| 18:14.36 | Lucas- | ./configure: line 3331: syntax error near unexpected token `USB,' |
| 18:14.37 | Lucas- | ./configure: line 3331: `PKG_CHECK_MODULES(USB, libusb >= 0.1.4,,' |
| 18:14.40 | no_mind | edistar, though python is snappy on the device, but how a python app will behave in long run is still under testing |
| 18:14.56 | Lucas- | and i still am, i have specified all different lib dir paths and still get this, any ideas? |
| 18:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko Jumb0 (n=Jimmy@75.146.10.150) |
| 18:15.00 | no_mind | edistar, we dont know if there are any memory leaks or something |
| 18:15.01 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 18:15.10 | edistar | no_mind: I will only have a device when the gta-02s are out, so you have plenty time to optimize :P |
| 18:15.13 | *** part/#openmoko Jumb0 (n=Jimmy@75.146.10.150) |
| 18:15.18 | edistar | and I will be happy to submit bug reports |
| 18:15.47 | no_mind | edistar, well sure, even i am waiting for gta02 |
| 18:16.01 | stefan_schmidt | no_mind: Dinner, we can talk later |
| 18:16.17 | edistar | no_mind: and I suppose the apps will work on an x86 pc just like on the neo? |
| 18:16.27 | no_mind | stefan_schmidt, sure i am here |
| 18:16.38 | no_mind | edistar, more or less |
| 18:16.46 | edistar | no_mind: h fasziniert | |
| 18:16.46 | edistar | |(19:05:42) edistar: schoen | |
| 18:16.46 | edistar | |(19:08:44) edistar: sehr schoen! | |
| 18:16.53 | edistar | grrr, sry |
| 18:17.04 | no_mind | edistar, thing is the bindings for libmokoui are under another project due to goofup by gforge admin |
| 18:17.06 | edistar | I hate this notebook internal mouse |
| 18:17.34 | edistar | no_mind: if I only use gtk.. |
| 18:18.37 | no_mind | edistar, well with only gtk you will get everything under one tree but the problems of gtk apps will come along withthe parcel |
| 18:18.45 | hrw | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/14/git-and-i-do-not-match/ |
| 18:19.04 | edistar | have to eat, cu |
| 18:19.07 | edistar | no_mind: thanks |
| 18:19.16 | no_mind | welcome |
| 18:19.21 | edistar | I'll just starting dusting up my knowledge of python and gtk ;) |
| 18:19.35 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 18:19.48 | ScaredyCat | Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 18:19.52 | edistar | ScaredyCat: what? |
| 18:20.04 | ScaredyCat | my neo... it's totally dead |
| 18:20.16 | no_mind | long live neo :-p |
| 18:20.29 | hrw | ScaredyCat: neo or battery? |
| 18:20.37 | ScaredyCat | neo |
| 18:21.09 | horvatj73 | mine too |
| 18:21.18 | horvatj73 | :x |
| 18:21.22 | _diego_ | are u sure? |
| 18:21.45 | ScaredyCat | it was powered on all day, plugged into the lappy... and I just noticed it was off.. so tried to power it on... nada |
| 18:21.45 | _diego_ | sometimes looks like is dead and then u find is alive |
| 18:22.20 | _diego_ | remove battery, press power button, put on battery, press power again |
| 18:22.24 | mwester | Well, that neatly solves the GSM firmware, the GSM no-850, and the missing GPS driver problem all in one fell swoop. |
| 18:22.43 | mwester | You'll have to replace it with the euromoko GTA02 |
| 18:23.58 | _diego_ | hope it work ^^ |
| 18:24.51 | Lucas- | need help with a libdir error when compiling dfu-util on debian, ive done everything i can think of :( |
| 18:25.06 | hrw | Lucas-: pastebin error |
| 18:25.11 | hrw | `pastebin |
| 18:25.17 | Lucas- | ./configure: line 3331: syntax error near unexpected token `USB,' |
| 18:25.18 | Lucas- | ./configure: line 3331: `PKG_CHECK_MODULES(USB, libusb >= 0.1.4,,' |
| 18:25.34 | Lucas- | i even compiled libusb |
| 18:25.41 | hrw | which ver of debian? |
| 18:25.46 | Lucas- | etch |
| 18:26.16 | hrw | problem is with dfu-util-native? |
| 18:26.35 | Lucas- | this is compipling source files from openmoko web |
| 18:26.47 | Lucas- | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/ |
| 18:26.48 | Lucas- | that ^ |
| 18:26.55 | hrw | a.. you build it by hand.. |
| 18:27.03 | Lucas- | there are binaries? |
| 18:27.05 | hrw | Lucas-: apt-get install libusb-dev |
| 18:27.05 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B2D94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:27.10 | Lucas- | hrw : done |
| 18:27.17 | Lucas- | same error |
| 18:27.38 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:27.48 | Lucas- | i set path to libs on ./configure command with --libdir=/path |
| 18:27.57 | hrw | i386 binary is available on openmoko server |
| 18:28.04 | Lucas- | hunting ... |
| 18:28.15 | hrw | buildhost.openmoko.org |
| 18:28.31 | Lucas- | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/ |
| 18:28.32 | Lucas- | 404 |
| 18:28.39 | Lucas- | for me |
| 18:28.46 | Lucas- | hence i began compiling the source |
| 18:28.51 | ScaredyCat | ok, ... hrm... |
| 18:28.56 | hrw | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/dfu-util |
| 18:28.59 | _diego_ | also mine neo looks dead, but it is not... |
| 18:29.14 | Lucas- | hrw : trying, thanks |
| 18:29.28 | _diego_ | it was usb attached, but the battery is discharged ... -.- |
| 18:29.41 | Lucas- | ^ is that common? |
| 18:29.47 | Lucas- | i just got my neo today |
| 18:30.16 | _diego_ | is the second time it happens in two months ... |
| 18:30.31 | Lucas- | hrw, you rock, thanks! :) |
| 18:30.59 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:32.52 | _diego_ | ScaredyCat, have u check if the battery is charged? |
| 18:33.27 | ScaredyCat | _diego_: it's been plugged in all day, and was on - I was ssh'd into it.. |
| 18:34.44 | _diego_ | mine was plugged too, and pc was on. But the tester say 3.3V... quite strange |
| 18:34.48 | edistar | ScaredyCat: sure it is off, not only screen off? |
| 18:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 18:35.19 | ScaredyCat | well the ssh session is dead |
| 18:35.58 | Lucas- | do any of you use *nix in VM ware to connect to the device? |
| 18:36.06 | Lucas- | just wondering if that would work |
| 18:36.41 | _diego_ | it can... but probably it's tricky ^^ |
| 18:37.16 | _diego_ | expecially configuring the route to the neo |
| 18:37.44 | mwester | Lucas-: VMware can't run dfu-util to reflash it. It might be able to run the terminal emulation, but I wouldn't trust it. |
| 18:38.19 | Lucas- | right, need 2nd laptop |
| 18:40.12 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 18:40.20 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p5495293F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:40.31 | edistar | ScaredyCat: where were your images again? which link? |
| 18:40.50 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/ |
| 18:41.04 | edistar | ScaredyCat: thx |
| 18:41.51 | edistar | ScaredyCat: where does the uboot file get saved? |
| 18:45.33 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@212.2.174.6) |
| 18:45.56 | *** join/#openmoko enjahova (n=enjahova@user85.freac.fsu.edu) |
| 18:47.16 | edistar | it actually starts, my qemu emulation :) |
| 18:50.52 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D9846.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 18:52.11 | PP|Spydon | Does it support OpenGL? :P |
| 18:54.15 | balrog-kun | u-boot? :) |
| 18:55.11 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423_ (n=chatzill@A73fa.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 18:55.34 | hhf423_ | so |
| 18:55.54 | hhf423_ | bloody neo battery still flat |
| 18:56.00 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-157-1-37-35.w90-8.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:56.06 | hhf423_ | <sigh> |
| 18:56.30 | edistar | PP|Spydon: you won't see openGL for about maybe 3/4 year at least |
| 18:56.55 | PP|Spydon | sdl_gfx then? :) |
| 18:57.05 | edistar | PP|Spydon: 2d driver support ;) |
| 18:57.26 | edistar | PP|Spydon: the smedia chip in the neo1973 supports 3d, but only limited |
| 18:57.37 | edistar | PP|Spydon: but it's only in the gta-02 |
| 18:57.42 | PP|Spydon | I see |
| 18:58.01 | ScaredyCat | ok, it seems to be alive again! |
| 18:58.03 | edistar | PP|Spydon: OM isn't working on a 3d driver |
| 18:58.07 | edistar | ScaredyCat: congrats ;) |
| 18:58.14 | balrog-kun | edistar: in what way it is limited? |
| 18:58.18 | edistar | ScaredyCat: :-)? |
| 18:58.34 | edistar | balrog-kun: the chip only does 512x512 3d acceleration |
| 19:01.11 | _diego_ | ScaredyCat, GOOD |
| 19:02.06 | balrog-kun | edistar: acording to smediatech.com it 3362 does 3D / 2D graphics in VGA resolution |
| 19:02.15 | balrog-kun | s/it// |
| 19:02.29 | edistar | balrog-kun: well, it doesn't, raster said |
| 19:02.32 | PP|Spydon | edistar, which resulotions can it do in 2d? |
| 19:02.35 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178103111.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:02.38 | edistar | PP|Spydon: VGA |
| 19:03.15 | edistar | balrog-kun: it's best to ask raster himself, I'm not quite sure about the details.. |
| 19:03.41 | balrog-kun | edistar: i don't know who to trust :p |
| 19:03.47 | balrog-kun | the manufacturer is supposed to know |
| 19:03.57 | hrw | and who knows does openmoko guys got any docs on how to make 3d working.. |
| 19:04.14 | edistar | balrog-kun: raster was quite annoyed, because somehow on closer inspection the chip didn't seem to do what it promised |
| 19:04.20 | balrog-kun | but i wouldn't call 512x512 limited |
| 19:04.24 | edistar | hrw: they don't, there is no driver |
| 19:04.34 | edistar | balrog-kun: you'd have to scale down |
| 19:04.34 | hrw | and to make 3d working you need to know how to write 3d drivers |
| 19:04.45 | hrw | raster works on 2d rather |
| 19:04.47 | hrw | I think |
| 19:04.58 | edistar | hrw: they have the specs by smedia, but decided not to write a 3d driver |
| 19:05.06 | edistar | he was on irc a few days ago and told us about it |
| 19:05.36 | edistar | I'm only saying what he said, as far as I can remember |
| 19:05.53 | hrw | edistar: I just wonder will they release gta02 in first or second half of 2008 |
| 19:06.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1010 has been created by thebohemian(AT)gmx.net |
| 19:06.02 | cdbot2 | * * Disable pulseaudio's CPU limiter to prevent shutting itself down |
| 19:06.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1010 |
| 19:06.05 | edistar | hrw: I think it will be shipped in january |
| 19:06.13 | balrog-kun | hrw: you're optimistic :) |
| 19:06.16 | balrog-kun | about 2008 |
| 19:06.16 | hrw | edistar: I do not |
| 19:06.29 | hrw | balrog-kun: psst - you know too much |
| 19:06.40 | hrw | ;D |
| 19:07.09 | edistar | hrw: why not? |
| 19:07.47 | hrw | edistar: when did you heard about something gta02 related from someone from OM-core? |
| 19:08.05 | hrw | last time? |
| 19:08.25 | edistar | hrw: a few days ago, on irc, they said it could be possible that they will sell the gta-02 end december, january |
| 19:08.39 | ewon | I want one in time for christmas ;_; |
| 19:08.51 | edistar | ewon: it will be just too late ;) |
| 19:08.55 | ewon | bah |
| 19:09.03 | edistar | yes.. |
| 19:09.15 | ewon | oh well. it'll be sweet when it is out |
| 19:09.27 | hhf423 | say, do we know if GTA02 will charge ok on a dummy USB charger? |
| 19:09.42 | ewon | and I can laud my open-source-phone eliteness over all the blackberry-using swine in the office |
| 19:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@dslb-088-068-211-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:12.10 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack_ (n=j_ack@p508D9B3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:12.40 | *** part/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 19:13.42 | balrog-kun | hhf423: if your neo isn't charging, make sure that the modem is off by taking the battery out and disconnecting DC for a minute |
| 19:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 19:14.18 | hhf423 | balrog-kun: yeah, thanks, I know all the voodoo. I already sacrificed a black penguin |
| 19:15.49 | hhf423 | the question is, will the pain go away with gta02? |
| 19:18.19 | roh | hhf423 no. neo1973 will always adhere the usb-spec as far as possible. so dummy chargers will only work when they have the right or atleast a known resistor on the id-pin |
| 19:18.51 | hhf423 | outch |
| 19:20.04 | roh | hhf423 gta02 will be able to detect if there is a dumb charger connected and which one and set the current respectively. just drawing more than 100mA without knowing what the source can provide is no option we will take. just too dangerous. (will kill perfectly working hardware) |
| 19:20.33 | hhf423 | ah, well, if there will be proper power management in the future, I will probably not have the problem so often |
| 19:20.40 | _diego_ | roh, there will be a charger compatible with neo sold by fic? |
| 19:20.56 | roh | _diego_ well.. we are working on that |
| 19:21.13 | hhf423 | yeah, a compatible charger will also solve the issue somewhat |
| 19:23.51 | josch | well... I sort of have a charger for the FIC battery |
| 19:24.04 | josch | it's a nokia BL-6C desktop charger |
| 19:24.07 | roh | hhf423 besides that.. well.. i never had a problem finding a powered usb plug in any flat |
| 19:24.09 | josch | it works perfect for me |
| 19:24.43 | roh | hhf423 as in 'host controller there, not dumb charger, able to supply 500mA(which rules out most hubs)' |
| 19:25.26 | flexd | roh: will we love the fic neo developers and om developers when gta02 gets released? |
| 19:25.45 | roh | ? |
| 19:26.00 | flexd | nevermind. |
| 19:26.26 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:26.29 | roh | *) |
| 19:27.00 | josch | would be problematic to find a location that fits for everyone wouldn't it? |
| 19:27.04 | josch | :-D |
| 19:27.35 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@bzq-84-108-121-143.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 19:27.42 | CM | As long as you can turn on 500mA charging fairly easy I'm happy |
| 19:27.54 | CM | I mean even when you're on a dumb charger |
| 19:28.11 | hrw | roh: simplest usb host chipset are probably ~10-20usd |
| 19:29.12 | roh | hrw yeah, so? even they cannot signal more than 500mA supply allowed ;) |
| 19:29.57 | roh | hrw distinguishing different charger-models by using the id-pin is totally ok i would think. the tolerance of the used resistor is 1% or better |
| 19:30.18 | Writchie | roh: did you say that the GT02 will have the sensor that the GTA01 does not? |
| 19:30.30 | hrw | roh: but you have control on both sizes so if OM-charger is used then OM-device can detect it and get as much as possible instead of 500mA |
| 19:31.34 | hhf423 | will use GTA02 the same battery? BL-6C? |
| 19:31.41 | hrw | hhf423: bl-5c it is |
| 19:31.42 | Writchie | roh: sensor to detect the network of 50k resistors |
| 19:31.54 | roh | Writchie gta02 will (at least thats planned) be able to measure the id-pin via adc |
| 19:32.01 | hhf423 | hrw: so a different battery then? |
| 19:32.12 | hrw | hhf423: 5c is smaller then 6c |
| 19:32.26 | Writchie | roh: it was planned for GT01 too according to old wiki ;) |
| 19:32.44 | Writchie | s/GT01/GTA01 |
| 19:32.45 | hhf423 | ok. so it does not make sense to invest in a desktop charger then. |
| 19:32.48 | roh | hrw the charger we are playing around with currently will be able to supply 1 or 2 amp i think. so 1000mA charging could be selecte.. but i cannot say that definitively yet |
| 19:33.36 | roh | hhf423 we are not using the same batterys as nokia, so the numbers do not really help me |
| 19:33.44 | hhf423 | yes! neo boots again. |
| 19:34.07 | Writchie | roh: IIRC all phones sold in China will have to meet USB charger specs |
| 19:34.12 | roh | when all goes well we will have new batterys which allow for more fine-grained measurements.. but we will see what comes out of development. |
| 19:34.26 | CM | Writchie: You do recall correctly :) |
| 19:34.41 | hhf423 | roh, whatever. its not the same battery, so I will not go and buy a charger just to have it for two months. Just please supply a working charger with the next model. |
| 19:34.53 | roh | Writchie usb charger specs? well., we adhere the usb spec atm. means only pull 100 or 500mA depeding on what the host allows |
| 19:35.02 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 19:35.29 | roh | hhf423 what do you all need external chargers for? just plug the device to any linux pc and be fine |
| 19:35.37 | Writchie | roh: meeting specs mean detecting the standard dumb charger and - well - charging at 500ma |
| 19:35.57 | roh | Writchie there are no real specs for dumb chargers which are really usb i think |
| 19:35.59 | hhf423 | roh, when I am traveling, I do not have a linux pc with me |
| 19:36.01 | Writchie | roh: like the linux desktop in my car? |
| 19:36.11 | flexd | roh: maybe he doesnt have a linux pc available all the time |
| 19:36.57 | hhf423 | roh, if you only want to sell the neo to hardcore linux geeks, you're on the right track, they will always have one around. but for everyone else, I think you are way off mark |
| 19:38.03 | roh | flexd well.. then its also not time to use a moko there atm. *ducks* .. atm it is for hardcore geeks. when its for people who actually wanna use it in every-day-use we WILL have different usabilities for that |
| 19:38.31 | hrw | roh: gta01 use batteries compatible with Nokia BL-5C battery. |
| 19:38.37 | hhf423 | now you're just being stupid |
| 19:38.55 | roh | hrw wrong. |
| 19:38.58 | hrw | roh: gta01 works without problems with bl-5c, gta01 battery can be charged wit 3rdparty nokia charger |
| 19:38.58 | hhf423 | and hiding behind "its a development kit, not a phone" excuse |
| 19:39.10 | flexd | roh: yeah i understand that, i'm not exactly a hardcore geek, but i'm gonna try my best to play with it :), but for the future! |
| 19:39.12 | hrw | nokia products refuse to work with gta01 battery |
| 19:39.23 | hrw | roh: I *have* bl-5c in gta01bv4 now |
| 19:39.28 | hhf423 | pathetic |
| 19:39.30 | roh | hrw nokia phones will not charge the battery and mokos will not charge the nokia one. they have different uses for the 3rd pin |
| 19:39.53 | hrw | roh: I *charge* gta01 battery in 3rd party charger for nokia batteries (charger do not care about 3rd pin) |
| 19:39.56 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-62-216-213-123.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:39.57 | josch | hrw, they are a bit compatible with BL-5C the FIC battery is really a BL-6C |
| 19:40.13 | hhf423 | does totally not matter if you have a charger which charges anything :-) |
| 19:40.39 | josch | BL-5C ist thinner than the FIC battery - the BL-6C looks exactly like the FIC |
| 19:40.41 | hhf423 | hrw, what brand is that charger? |
| 19:40.53 | josch | hrw, I'm doing the same |
| 19:40.56 | roh | please.. it may be the same size and compareable technical parameters, but since the 3rd pin is used different they are simply not directly 'compatible' |
| 19:41.01 | hhf423 | highlyhochmin taiwan ltd? |
| 19:41.14 | josch | hhf423, you get this charger for 5€ at ebay |
| 19:41.15 | hrw | hhf423: total unnamed |
| 19:41.36 | josch | hrw, I examined the charger and copied the circuit to build my own |
| 19:41.49 | hhf423 | josch: you forgot the 5€ for shipping... :-) |
| 19:41.52 | josch | its nothing more than 6 resistors and 3 transistors |
| 19:41.53 | hrw | hhf423: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/04/18/3rdparty-chargers-for-neo1973/ |
| 19:41.59 | flexd | 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdd1 166G 122G 36G 78% /mnt/stasj |
| 19:41.59 | flexd | 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdc1 147G 74G 66G 53% /mnt/stasj2 |
| 19:41.59 | flexd | 17:18 <~flexd> /dev/hdb1 166G 188M 157G 1% /mnt/stasj3 |
| 19:42.01 | flexd | woops |
| 19:42.02 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k559.webspeed.dk) |
| 19:42.03 | flexd | damnit :/ |
| 19:42.19 | flexd | sorry, was gonna right click the link, forgot im not in ubuntu anymore :/ |
| 19:42.33 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:43.10 | _diego_ | and 3 transistor? ^^ |
| 19:44.09 | *** part/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125) |
| 19:44.31 | ScaredyCat | 2007-11-14 18:55:13] <ScaredyCat> df -h your big raid array for me :) |
| 19:44.32 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:40:53] <Gadget-M> Which one ? |
| 19:44.32 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:41:37] <Gadget-M> storage-pool 19T 2.5G 19T 1% /storage-pool |
| 19:44.32 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:41:40] <Gadget-M> That one ? |
| 19:45.07 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 19:45.08 | CoreDump | bloody hell |
| 19:45.13 | josch | well I have drawn a schematic I wil redraw it in inkscape and post it in the wiki |
| 19:45.51 | roh | _diego_ also not with 3 transistors.. atleast not while adhering the charging-spec (which does not allow for more than a single-digit deviation from the graph they give you) |
| 19:46.34 | josch | hhf423, do you care to disassemble your charger and tell if there is more in it than in mine? |
| 19:46.53 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-1126.bb.online.no) |
| 19:47.00 | josch | well 3 transistors and 6 resistors now worked for my batteries for over a year now |
| 19:47.01 | hhf423 | josch: I don not have such a charger, thats exactly my problem :-( |
| 19:47.07 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 19:47.14 | hhf423 | but I see they are 5,99 on ebay |
| 19:47.16 | josch | ah it was hrw |
| 19:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko cxreg (n=count@genericorp.net) |
| 19:47.20 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn-ghost (n=TAsn@89.1.233.93.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 19:47.22 | josch | hrw? |
| 19:47.24 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieeface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k559.webspeed.dk) |
| 19:47.47 | hrw | josch: it is not disassemblable |
| 19:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:48.01 | hhf423 | actually, they are EUR 1 plus 5,99 shipping |
| 19:48.12 | josch | hrw, :-/ |
| 19:48.13 | ScaredyCat | 2007-11-14 18:55:13] <ScaredyCat> df -h your big raid array for me :) |
| 19:48.13 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:40:53] <Gadget-M> Which one ? |
| 19:48.13 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:41:37] <Gadget-M> storage-pool 19T 2.5G 19T 1% /storage-pool |
| 19:48.13 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:41:40] <Gadget-M> That one ? |
| 19:48.17 | ScaredyCat | oops sorry |
| 19:48.24 | *** part/#openmoko lwhsu (n=lwhsu@lwhsu.cs.nctu.edu.tw) |
| 19:48.35 | josch | ScaredyCat, what IS THIS MONSTER??? |
| 19:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko shreed (n=shred@p5491A92E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:48.50 | ScaredyCat | thats a RAID6 filesystem, on 22 disks with 1 hot spare |
| 19:49.01 | CoreDump | lol |
| 19:49.04 | shreed | hi |
| 19:49.12 | ScaredyCat | on the fly compression as well |
| 19:49.16 | pH5 | josch: so you say now, in 20 years you will be worried when your phone doesn't have that much memory. |
| 19:49.23 | ScaredyCat | ypically get about 250MB/s write |
| 19:49.26 | CoreDump | that data can be that valuable if if trusts it to a raid6... |
| 19:49.31 | flexd | 22T |
| 19:49.38 | flexd | 19T* |
| 19:49.39 | flexd | ftw? |
| 19:49.52 | josch | yeah - raid6 makes sense there |
| 19:50.03 | CoreDump | s/can/can't |
| 19:50.40 | shreed | i found a bug in 0.93 (3811): |
| 19:50.47 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:06.518 Transmission[641] *** -[NSSegmentedCell setSelected:forSegment:]: selector not recognized [self = 0x1cecc00] |
| 19:50.48 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:06.535 Transmission[641] Exception raised during posting of notification. Ignored. exception: *** -[NSSegmentedCell setSelected:forSegment:]: selector not recognized [self = 0x1cecc00] |
| 19:50.48 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:19.038 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:50.49 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:19.649 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:50.50 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:19.833 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:50.53 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:22.160 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:50.56 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:25.108 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:50.57 | CoreDump | !lart shreed |
| 19:50.59 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:25.518 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:51.02 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:26.584 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:51.05 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:29.153 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:51.05 | CM | ScaredyCat: Did you see 17:19 <Tronic> /dev/mapper/big1 5.3T 5.3T 1.7G 100% /mnt/big1 |
| 19:51.08 | shreed | 2007-11-14 20:43:30.476 Transmission[641] *** -stringForObjectValue: only defined for abstract class. Define -[NSDateFormatter stringForObjectValue:]! |
| 19:51.10 | flexd | shreed: i totally agree |
| 19:51.11 | shreed | get that when trying to close the inspector window |
| 19:51.23 | shreed | wrong window |
| 19:51.29 | borg_ | :) |
| 19:51.35 | ScaredyCat | CM: compared to 19T ? |
| 19:51.44 | Writchie | roh: when and where can we buy new batteries |
| 19:51.51 | ScaredyCat | :O |
| 19:52.00 | ScaredyCat | is yours dead too Writchie? |
| 19:52.07 | mwester | shreed: well said, I agree with all those thoughts you just posted. |
| 19:52.27 | Writchie | no, I have 3 but they will be dead before all too long |
| 19:52.30 | ScaredyCat | roflmao! |
| 19:52.31 | ScaredyCat | 2007-11-14 19:49:03] <ScaredyCat> how do you back that up? |
| 19:52.31 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:50:20] <Gadget-M> second identical box |
| 19:52.43 | CM | Hehe |
| 19:52.52 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:50:45] <ScaredyCat> holy fuck |
| 19:53.03 | Tronic | ScaredyCat: Is that 19 TB array 100 % full, too? |
| 19:53.08 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 19:53.19 | Tronic | Hmm, then there's a hole in that theory. |
| 19:53.53 | ScaredyCat | [2007-11-14 19:51:35] <Gadget-M> we've got a 3rd oem box with 24 1TB drive in that we're testing as we |
| 19:54.19 | edistar | roh: will we be able to buy batteries somewhere, either officially or not, that will work in the gta-02? |
| 19:54.31 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg2 (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 19:54.34 | edistar | roh: so that we can have several batteries |
| 19:54.35 | Tronic | I think I'll wait for 1.5 TB disks before doing my next upgrade. |
| 19:54.40 | ScaredyCat | I has fewd!! |
| 19:54.44 | ScaredyCat | bbiab |
| 19:54.53 | hhf423 | edistar: developers do not need multiple batteries |
| 19:55.08 | hhf423 | fewd? |
| 19:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko PITABoy (i=Windoze@adsl-221-110-242.rmo.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:56.51 | *** part/#openmoko PITABoy (i=Windoze@adsl-221-110-242.rmo.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:56.57 | mwester | Is it the case then that the battery is only used to keep the USB power from roasting the PM chip? |
| 19:57.33 | mwester | How foolish of me. |
| 19:57.53 | hhf423 | hmm, the neo actually rings now if I call it. but it never stops ringin when I drop the outgoing call... I thought that bug was sorted... |
| 19:58.14 | ewon | sounds irritating |
| 19:58.30 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k559.webspeed.dk) |
| 19:58.42 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 19:59.03 | shreed | oh, i can make phone calls with my neo? *i should try that now* |
| 19:59.53 | hhf423 | amazing thought, isn't it? |
| 20:00.15 | hhf423 | lo and behold, the next thing might be that you can send text messages... |
| 20:00.25 | hhf423 | err, no, that does not work yet |
| 20:01.10 | borg_ | it does |
| 20:01.15 | borg_ | there is just no gui for it :) |
| 20:01.33 | hhf423 | unless you install SettingsGUI or course |
| 20:01.57 | shreed | i got a text message via AT commands :D that was soooo cool |
| 20:02.35 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 20:02.55 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 20:03.11 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:05.04 | josch | sms sending is no problem with libgsmd-tool |
| 20:05.25 | josch | receiving also isn't |
| 20:05.49 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 20:05.54 | borg_ | someone should make some cool mockups for a sms gui |
| 20:06.32 | borg_ | i will have lots of time in a week |
| 20:06.35 | josch | borg_, I did |
| 20:06.36 | borg_ | i would make it |
| 20:06.39 | borg_ | josch: where? |
| 20:06.40 | borg_ | :) |
| 20:06.51 | josch | borg_, I'm currently writing an app that exactly does this |
| 20:06.57 | borg_ | ah ok |
| 20:07.06 | josch | it's python gtk |
| 20:07.08 | borg_ | is there a public repositorie or something? |
| 20:07.26 | josch | I'm helping Sup3rkiddo finishing his pygsmd gsmd binding |
| 20:07.37 | josch | borg_, no - it's far from being beta |
| 20:07.39 | borg_ | yes, i have seen the bindings |
| 20:07.45 | borg_ | they are looking great :) |
| 20:07.50 | josch | but it pygsmd works there is no problem to finish this app |
| 20:08.03 | josch | unfortunately sup3rkiddo wasn't online today |
| 20:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish_h (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 20:08.19 | josch | borg_, the are a copy of libgsmd-tool |
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| 20:09.00 | *** part/#openmoko ericthefish_h (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 20:09.45 | josch | borg_, here is a screenshot of the dialer: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/pyPhone_Dialer.png |
| 20:10.07 | josch | the third icon on the bottom is the sms part of the app |
| 20:10.20 | borg_ | ok :) |
| 20:11.33 | josch | as I said the only thing we need to complete is, is a complete pygsmd |
| 20:11.42 | josch | everybody is invited to help :-) |
| 20:11.53 | *** join/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:15.19 | shreed | @josch: could you make the numbers a bit bigger? |
| 20:15.24 | *** join/#openmoko Tieku (n=Joe@cpc3-leed14-0-0-cust462.leed.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:16.51 | josch | shreed, changing anything in the gui is no problem - it uses glade and changing such things is only a few clicks away but I have to concentrate on getting pygsmd to work for now |
| 20:16.55 | josch | gui is no problem |
| 20:17.13 | josch | shreed, the number is so small because I wanted to use gtk relative fonts |
| 20:17.23 | josch | and the size actually is xx-large |
| 20:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-71-87.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:24.41 | shreed | when i try to crosscompile "the wrong way" as said in the wiki "building hello word..." with http://pastebin.ca/773832 i get an error "cant find gtk..." why? |
| 20:25.26 | *** join/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:30.10 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CD0BD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 20:30.56 | Writchie | roh: this is the USB Battery Charging Spec http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_0.zip |
| 20:31.38 | Writchie | roh: last I checked the neo doesn't meet the USB standby requirement, but perhaps this is fixed in later kernels |
| 20:35.21 | Writchie | roh: mini USB is also officially deprecated in favor of micro USB which is new industry standard for mobile handssets |
| 20:36.17 | Stephmw | other than physical differences, what's different between micro and mini? |
| 20:36.33 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@79.1.223.212) |
| 20:37.21 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-065-154-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:38.56 | Writchie | Stephmw: just physical, always 5 pins, and keyed for A/B |
| 20:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B105DA3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:39.17 | Stephmw | Writchie: pfah. so really no reason for the change other than to shift inventory |
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| 20:43.55 | Writchie | Stephmw: there is a worldwide movement to standardize and eliminate all kinds of different chargers for ecological reasons. |
| 20:44.33 | Stephmw | Writchie: understandable... so why a new standard rather than push one of the existing ones? |
| 20:44.48 | Writchie | existing plug is too big for narrow form factors |
| 20:45.02 | *** join/#openmoko Ebbe (n=ebbe@users.kollegienet.dk) |
| 20:45.18 | Stephmw | I don't see that kind of justification really changing... it'll be the same issue in 5 years |
| 20:45.26 | Writchie | nokia, moto, SE, samsung, LG are already agreed on new standard. |
| 20:46.30 | hachi | I've got a poweroff glitch on my moko, but I don't see it mentioned anywhere on the wiki |
| 20:46.45 | hachi | does this happen with everyone's where it flashes a white screen after 'poweroff' ? |
| 20:47.10 | Writchie | well with 1.5 amps for charging this should last a long while. |
| 20:48.03 | Writchie | it will also be mandated in China and propable EC as well eventually. |
| 20:48.28 | Writchie | of course with ROHS and lack of lead devices probably won't last 5 years anyway. |
| 20:48.55 | Stephmw | my point was that if the core justification was that mini is too big... micro will eventually have the same problem |
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| 20:52.34 | Writchie | Stephmw: ack |
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| 21:01.35 | roh | Writchie mini-usb is not completely deprecated. you just cannot get usb-otg certification anymore (we are not otg anyways and gta02 will also not be) |
| 21:02.46 | SpeedEvil | Well - assorted battery technologies now support 10C+ charging - for 6 min or so charge times. |
| 21:03.14 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx_ (n=swel024@ip-118-90-20-178.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 21:04.01 | SpeedEvil | though that would imply 50W or so chargers for a mobile phone |
| 21:04.37 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 21:04.46 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: with cooling fans! |
| 21:07.04 | abraxa__ | SpeedEvil: Such currents would make me afraid of unwanted fireworks set off in my house |
| 21:08.10 | hachi | openmoko randomizes the hardware address of the usb net device |
| 21:08.10 | mwester | hachi: yes. |
| 21:08.10 | hachi | how can I make my computer assign it a consisten network device name then? |
| 21:08.10 | SpeedEvil | OS? |
| 21:08.11 | hachi | linux debian |
| 21:08.16 | hachi | udev is what i'm wondering |
| 21:08.22 | ScaredyCat | udev rules |
| 21:08.29 | hachi | I'm crawling /sys/class/net/usb0 and I don't see anything unique |
| 21:08.52 | hachi | the only marker I see is the mac address, everything else is arbitrary |
| 21:10.09 | hachi | do you have an example udev rule? |
| 21:10.18 | hachi | you can't use udevinfo on a network device |
| 21:10.28 | hachi | so I'm crawling /sys manually and coming up empty |
| 21:10.51 | zash | lsusb says what? |
| 21:11.06 | hachi | lsusb doesn't matter, I need something that is in /sys |
| 21:12.19 | josch | well... I now drew the charging circuit I successfully use in inkscape - does anyone want to santize it to put it in the wiki? |
| 21:12.59 | hachi | surprise surprise, lsusb shows only one unique marker on the moko device |
| 21:13.01 | hachi | the mac address |
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| 21:30.36 | playya | is the mokomakefile now working on ubuntu gutsy |
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| 21:39.44 | Hack | Ita? |
| 21:40.40 | *** part/#openmoko VladoK (n=vlado@217.67.25.229) |
| 21:41.43 | shreed | is obex for usb/bluetooth already supported? |
| 21:42.08 | hrw | shreed: obex for BT is supported |
| 21:42.16 | hrw | it does not matter how bt is connected |
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| 21:43.08 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@88-149-141-64.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 21:44.15 | hrw | hachi: ATTRS{modalias}=="usb:v1457p5122d0212dc02dsc00dp00ic02isc06ip00" |
| 21:44.27 | hrw | hachi: this means 'I am neo1973' |
| 21:44.40 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 21:44.40 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:44.41 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:44.43 | hrw | also this |
| 21:45.40 | hrw | hachi: 'udevinfo -a -p /sys/class/net/usb0' gives lot of info |
| 21:45.56 | hachi | but none of those identify this neo |
| 21:46.23 | hrw | info which I gave was from neo connected |
| 21:46.38 | hachi | I thought usb devices were supposed to have serial numbers or something, so you can uniquely identify them no matter where they go on a bus |
| 21:46.49 | hachi | yes, I have that info in my tree |
| 21:47.02 | hachi | but it's device class/subclass sorta specific |
| 21:47.07 | hachi | there's no marker for /this/ neo |
| 21:47.12 | hrw | hachi: not all devices gives serial |
| 21:47.18 | hrw | hachi: you have more then one neo? |
| 21:47.46 | hachi | no, but when the GTA02 comes out I will |
| 21:48.06 | hrw | gta02 will probably use other usb id |
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| 21:49.55 | PP|Spydon | have anyone here played X-Moto? |
| 21:50.00 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@nl112-173-73.student.uu.se) |
| 21:52.17 | hachi | any input on my observed powerdown issue? |
| 21:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat/x-04ea95525bad5159) |
| 21:55.51 | mmp | Hello, sorry for bringing up "forbidden" topic, but I just want to be sure -- when was GTA02's december release date announced? Few weeks ago I read post saying something about november... |
| 21:57.03 | mwester | mmp: Anything in the wiki or on this channel is speculation. Someone updated something based on conclusions drawn from someone else saying something on the channel that they may or perhaps may not really have knowlege of. |
| 21:57.04 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 21:58.20 | mwester | Quite frankly, if FIC/Openmoko *really* knows right now when the device will actually ship, I would be surprised. |
| 21:58.59 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 22:00.08 | Ghiottone | mwester, well I know exactly when. |
| 22:00.24 | Ghiottone | mwester, the answer is: "when it's ready" :) |
| 22:00.47 | Writchie | or before if history is any clue |
| 22:01.03 | mwester | phhhttttt! :-D |
| 22:01.08 | mmp | mwester: I was referring to http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/011211.html |
| 22:01.23 | hachi | bought a moto slvr to tide me over till this thing is able to handle SMS and phonecalls |
| 22:01.28 | hachi | and longer battery live |
| 22:01.29 | mmp | I know it doesn't say anything precisely, I was just curious whether there was some update I missed... |
| 22:01.33 | *** part/#openmoko Hack (i=JWINIESM@host206-176-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:01.41 | hachi | it should be noted that I loathe my slvr |
| 22:02.50 | mwester | mmp: just to give you an idea, since that email FIC/euromoko^Hopenmoko has discovered (you won't believe this, but it's true) that the GTA02, along with the GTA01, is actually NOT a quad-band device, but a tri-band european device. That should give an idea of how much work is still left to do, and the sort of unknowns being dealt with... |
| 22:03.48 | mwester | hachi: I hope you're in Europe. |
| 22:04.06 | hachi | nope, butI have a euro slvr too |
| 22:04.14 | hachi | I hate the interface :) |
| 22:04.17 | hachi | my coverage is fine |
| 22:04.31 | mwester | ah, ok. one of those folks who manages to stay close to home, then. |
| 22:04.51 | hachi | they don't send me anywhere |
| 22:05.14 | mmp | mwester: ahh, I forgot... <speculation>Anyway, if tri-band design is already almost complete (and I'm from Europe), they theoretically could do november release</speculation> :) |
| 22:05.24 | *** join/#openmoko DRF (n=d@host86-139-47-109.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:05.33 | mwester | Someone is trying to send me to Kansas City for a week in December. Just where I want to go, in December. Groan. |
| 22:05.46 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 22:06.15 | josch | hi! I have problems with sound in openmoko - it works while phoning but doesn't on clicks and when playing videos |
| 22:06.25 | mwester | And Nebraska last week. So 850 is rather a requirement for me, I'm afraid. :( |
| 22:06.28 | josch | /etc/init.d/pulseaudio restart doesn't solce it |
| 22:07.19 | *** part/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CD0BD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:08.32 | _diego_away | last news talk about late december, as date relase |
| 22:08.50 | mmp | _diego_away: what is the source? |
| 22:09.22 | mmp | mwester: well, I would personally like to have quad-band phone, even though I'm in 900/1800 country... . |
| 22:10.00 | josch | I have no sound even after a reboot - what's wrong? my image is from about a week ago |
| 22:10.06 | mmp | But on the other hand, few other people and me have waited for GTA01 so long that we actually decided to wait few months more for GTA02... |
| 22:10.51 | flexd | uhm, i suppose this isnt exactly the right place to ask this, but could someone good with python/gtk stuff help me with something (I suppose there are a few of you here ;)) |
| 22:11.08 | *** join/#openmoko Cardo (n=root@host-84-221-227-185.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 22:11.42 | josch | flexd, hi! your problem could be mine in the future - just ask! |
| 22:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.118) |
| 22:11.49 | flexd | josch: i suppose so :P |
| 22:11.55 | flexd | I'm making the frontend for my bot i was talking about |
| 22:12.07 | flexd | and i've got a socket setup on the bot that gives out the log like i want it, so only the gui part left |
| 22:12.29 | flexd | and i was wondering if there's a clever way i can both connect to the socket and receive data *and* have the dialog up at once |
| 22:13.00 | flexd | probably with threads but i'm not sure how i get receiving part to update the window if you understand what i mean |
| 22:13.20 | *** join/#openmoko Cardo (n=root@host-84-221-227-185.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 22:13.48 | josch | flexd, well that is exactly what I want to do ^^ |
| 22:14.09 | flexd | we should work together then |
| 22:14.23 | flexd | I'm not sure if i should even plan to think about the phone running twisted |
| 22:14.25 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 22:14.31 | _diego_away | flexd: if it can help, look at: http://lifobot.cvs.sourceforge.net/lifobot/guiclient/ |
| 22:14.36 | josch | flexd, have a look here: http://www.gtk.org/tutorial1.2/gtk_tut-17.html |
| 22:15.14 | josch | flexd, this is in c but gdk_input_add lets you add an event handler when something is updated on the file descriptor/socket |
| 22:15.28 | flexd | i think it might be a bit resource hogging to be on a tiny phone, but if not i can make it pretty easy |
| 22:15.37 | flexd | josch: well that's just awsome if it works in python too |
| 22:16.03 | josch | flexd, I googled for it but without luck |
| 22:16.16 | flexd | josch: there's a python binding for it |
| 22:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 22:16.20 | flexd | python-gdkinput 1.0 |
| 22:16.29 | josch | this would be ideal as the gtk loop will hanlde socket events |
| 22:16.40 | josch | excellent |
| 22:17.18 | josch | now someone has to compile it for armv4t ^^ |
| 22:19.36 | josch | flexd, well... we could ask mickeyl as he is also very interested in building python apps for openmoko and suggested exactly this approach to me |
| 22:19.46 | flexd | hmm |
| 22:19.54 | flexd | well my "server" part is using twisted |
| 22:20.04 | flexd | but it's just gonna be a basic socket anyway, so no biggie to make |
| 22:21.09 | flexd | But it should be nice :D |
| 22:22.51 | josch | flexd, python-gdkinput seems to be exactly what I need :-/ |
| 22:24.59 | flexd | i have to mock your ability to google btw, it was the top hit :p |
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| 22:28.01 | *** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 22:28.12 | josch | well... how do I reactivate my sound? |
| 22:29.00 | Ebbe | josch: Can you "ipkg upgrade" with no problems? |
| 22:29.38 | josch | give me a sec - didn't update for some while |
| 22:30.08 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 22:31.30 | Ebbe | josch: Okay. It's just that I've had to give ipkg the flag -force-overwrite with some of the packages, or else something would upgrade, and maybe that could brake something.. |
| 22:31.46 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:31.48 | Ebbe | *not upgrade |
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| 22:34.44 | josch | when will the qvga patch that is in the kernel by mwester be in the mainline kernel? |
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| 22:39.56 | flexd | josch: can you compile that python-gdkinput? |
| 22:40.06 | flexd | im missing tons of stuff :/ |
| 22:40.13 | josch | flexd, don't know how |
| 22:40.25 | flexd | for normal linux im thinking now |
| 22:40.28 | josch | someone from openembedded has to add it |
| 22:40.42 | josch | for my host I didn't try yet |
| 22:41.15 | flexd | well do that first, if we can get it working on our machines there will only be minor difficulities to get it on om i think :) (compling stuff) |
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| 22:46.46 | josch | flexd, do sudo apt-get install libgtk-dev swig |
| 22:47.08 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953A68F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:49.01 | MookiE_ | hello |
| 22:49.01 | MookiE_ | i cant go to the internet with my neo over my pc as gateway. I can only ping my pc (192.168.0.200/192.168.2.22) but not my router (192.168.2.1). my default route is: "default 192.168.0.200 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0" |
| 22:49.22 | flexd | did you setup routing stuff on your host machine? |
| 22:49.35 | MookiE_ | fuck im stupid |
| 22:50.57 | MookiE_ | hmm... i try it but it dont works |
| 22:50.58 | MookiE_ | (sudo route add -host 192.168.0.202/32 dev usb0) |
| 22:51.11 | MookiE_ | (like the wiki page) |
| 22:53.28 | *** part/#openmoko MookiE_ (n=kim@p5B07DDCE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 22:58.56 | Tyrael | hi. Today your openmoko-today is working on boot? |
| 22:58.58 | Tyrael | ;-) |
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| 23:34.21 | josch | who can I ask to get a python binding into openembedded? |
| 23:35.16 | flexd | josch: we need to get it compiled for a normal distro first.. :/ |
| 23:35.18 | flexd | i think |
| 23:35.23 | flexd | to see if it even works |
| 23:35.41 | zecke | josch: go to bugs.openembedded.org and attach your bb-file :) |
| 23:35.46 | zecke | josch: or ask for help creating one |
| 23:36.15 | josch | flexd, I'm nearly on to accomplish this |
| 23:36.28 | flexd | what's missing? |
| 23:36.58 | josch | well - I'm searching for the package containing pygtk/pygtk.h |
| 23:37.19 | josch | well I think I will just ignore the configure script and write my own |
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| 23:38.51 | flexd | let me know if you do :d |
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