IRC log for #openmoko on 20071112

00:00.47edistarrbs-tito_: starts a bit basic, but it looks like fun ;)
00:00.56rbs-tito_edistar: Yeah
00:01.54edistarrbs-tito_: what is ruby mainly used for? webstuff or desktop programs?
00:02.50rbs-tito_edistar: It's like Python on the desktop but the code is much cleaner. Ruby-on-rails is a good webstuff language
00:03.01edistarrbs-tito_: sounds good
00:03.07edistarcleaner than python?
00:03.33rbs-tito_edistar: Yeah, start learning the syntax and you'll see everything seems much more logical and more efficient
00:04.11edistarokey
00:04.15edistarI
00:04.18edistar'll take a look
00:06.12*** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net)
00:06.21rbs-tito_edistar: I changed from Python to Ruby. GTK bindings are just as good too
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00:06.47edistarrbs-tito_: I like these square brackets..
00:06.55flexdindents are just cleaner
00:07.14rbs-tito_I'm awful at indenting
00:07.17rbs-tito_Well, I like it
00:07.27edistar:P
00:07.32rbs-tito_But when I write code that looks neat to me everyone else says it is ugly
00:07.37flexdI've been trough my share of langauges, i can honestly say python is the one i like the most
00:07.57edistarwell... I read about a code cleaning program some time ago, it was really cool
00:07.58rbs-tito_Each to their own I suppose
00:08.06flexdedistar: no need for that
00:08.12flexdjust stick to a certain set of rules
00:08.19edistarflexd: it cleaned up my xml :P
00:08.24flexdlike, try to keep things organized
00:08.32rbs-tito_it always helps if you write down what you are doing in a logical order first
00:08.34edistarbut I must say my python is always quite readable
00:08.40flexdname variables sensible, dont go calling stuff like randomshitthatdoesthispossibly
00:08.43rbs-tito_Then when you get making code it comes out much better
00:08.44flexdand comment what you do
00:08.55flexdshould probably tell that i do little of these things i say
00:09.00flexdbut it ends up pretty good looking anwyay
00:09.01edistar;)
00:10.12edistaris a list==array in ruby?
00:11.05rbs-tito_edistar: Pretty much, but you use it slightly different to it helps to call it a list not an array
00:11.40edistarok
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00:12.20edistarI love dictionaries :)
00:12.24flexdthings i code usually end up looking something like this: http://flexd.ath.cx/blue.py
00:13.22rbs-tito_flexd: Thats cleaner than mne
00:13.25rbs-tito_*mine
00:13.32flexdthat's one of the cleaner ones.. :p
00:13.44flexdaslong as it's tiny it's pretty clean
00:13.58flexdonce it gets big.. it's a mess
00:14.48rbs-tito_flexd: So split it up into different files! It helps for me even though it makes no logical sense
00:15.05flexdrbs-tito_: i have
00:15.06flexdhold on
00:15.24rbs-tito_Ah I see, I thought you wrote everything monolithic
00:15.27flexdhttp://flexd.ath.cx/flexdbot/ :)
00:15.35edistarwtf, my pc is telling me I don't have enough room to save /tmp/blue.py
00:15.39rbs-tito_cool
00:15.53flexdmy first real python project
00:16.00edistarI have about 60gb free, can someone hint to me what the problem is?
00:16.56flexdi wish i could make apache show .py files as text though
00:17.16netxedistar: is your /tmp on a different mount point that / or /home?
00:18.02edistarnetx: no, it isn't
00:18.08edistar<PROTECTED>
00:18.31edistarno hidden files either
00:18.47netxempty? as in totally empty? that's bizarre
00:19.16edistarnetx: completely empty, I emptied it just now because I thought it might be full..
00:19.20netxmy /tmp always has something in it, usually temp files or dirs for background processes
00:19.26netxah ic
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00:19.55edistarnetx: but the problem occured before
00:20.21edistarmaybe I should just restart the pc, but that shouldn't be a solution
00:21.44rbs-tito_flexd: I'm sure you can
00:22.14edistarcu in minute
00:22.34bmk789_is there a wiki page on the state of 3G?
00:23.48bmk789_or a mailing list archive?
00:26.00bmk789_i know its probably been covered over and over but google hasnt found anything really about it
00:26.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1004 has been created by exabyte(AT)3mhz.net
00:26.02cdbot2* * Dialer keypad is leaking memory on normal presses
00:26.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1004
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00:26.12rohre
00:26.20edistarnothing working anymore :( can't even start fluxbox as it can't write to /tmp anymore
00:26.57flexdoh dear, you broke something
00:27.20flexdrbs-tito_: so was i
00:27.21flexduntil i tried
00:27.32flexdapparently Addtype text/plain .py in my apache2.conf does absolutely nothing
00:27.41flexdneither does the same in a .htaccess in the folders i want it in :/
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00:27.49edistarflexd: yes, something.. it was openmokos build fault, I had that half a year ago too, then I just needed to delete and mkdir /tmp and chmod it, then everything worked again, now it doesn't..
00:27.52flexdseems like firefox is dead set on downloading it
00:27.53rbs-tito_flexd: ...Isn't it *.py ?
00:28.00flexdrbs-tito_: possibly :<
00:28.16flexdnope
00:28.29rbs-tito_flexd: Oh, how odd. Perhaps it is firefox then
00:28.57flexdmaybe
00:28.58rbs-tito_I've seen apache modules that open files of code and highlight the syntax as html. I don't know what they are called though
00:28.59flexdyou try it
00:29.07flexdhttp://flexd.ath.cx/blue.py
00:29.10rbs-tito_flexd: I'm on a laptop
00:29.22flexdYou are on the internet my friend
00:29.24flexdit works both ways
00:29.33rbs-tito_flexd: Oh, I thought you meant on my apache server
00:29.34rbs-tito_LOL
00:29.51rbs-tito_The code flashed up on a grey background quickly, then dissapeared and I got a download dialogue
00:29.56flexderr
00:30.01flexdit works in IE
00:30.22flexdgdamnit
00:30.24rbs-tito_rough
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00:31.00rbs-tito_I've seen a plugin that can use tar.gz files as if they were directories, pretty cool
00:33.55flexdi found a plugin that does what i want
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00:38.57flexdbbl sleeps \o
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00:40.49edistar_re
01:04.10edistargood night
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01:40.17donhey all
01:42.09donBreak rule #1.. Question; any word on the html browser that will be used for GTA02?
01:44.15bmk789_i read something about WebKit in LJ
01:44.31dongot a link?
01:44.41bmk789_http://webkit.org/
01:44.46bmk789_i believe thats it
01:44.53donwaiting for this phone is killing it
01:44.55donme
01:45.28bmk789_same here
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02:24.53donI'm trying to find some more recent articles on LJ but nothing
02:25.11donwould love to know more about the html browser
02:26.31rohdon what do you wanna know?
02:26.41rohits based on gtk-webkit
02:27.26donanyone used it yet?
02:27.49rohsure. we build and install it by default in openmoko images
02:28.00rohits yet very basic
02:28.39rohbut it renders the web much more correct than the mobile ie ive seen on most mobiles/PDA
02:28.39donbasic? not a full browser et?
02:28.42donyet?
02:29.34rohbasic as in features. its still in progress.. like its no epiphany yet. no real bookmarks or downloads yet
02:35.03donwhy not firefox?
02:35.26donor minimo
02:35.44doc|homefirefox is horrible
02:35.56doc|homebloated, memory loss, especially on linux
02:36.07donreally?  it is all I use
02:36.18donnever had a problem
02:36.30doc|hometry epiphany, it's far faster, only thing is it doesn't have as many extensions
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02:37.23donwill do
02:37.45donwhy not use epiphany then?  Is it that tied to gnome?
02:39.06donI ask because I have used safari and I'm not that impressed
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02:54.44donanyone know if there is going to be any support for CDMA?
02:55.23Meknot in the GTA01 or GTA02
02:55.24ewonunlikely.
02:55.35dondamn
02:55.47ewonwent to get a phone here in the US, not allowed do so unless you have a SSN :(
02:55.51ewonI don't get mine till next week
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02:56.06donhuh?
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02:56.22don<ewon>:are you kidding?
02:56.47mwester-laptopcredit check
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02:57.24donseems silly.  
02:57.25donstill...
02:58.19mwester-laptopThe US model is to give enormous subsidies on the phone, and make it up in a contract -- that's only good business if they can be assured that the buyer is credit-worthy.  It does suck.
02:58.36doc|homeer what?
02:58.47ewonI can get a pay-as-you-go-phone easily, but for a contract phone I need an SSN
02:58.47doc|homethe only people you should give your ssn number to are the banks
02:58.54doc|homethat's crazy
02:58.57donExcept they really don't give much of a subsidy
02:58.57doc|homecan't you put money down?
02:59.01ewonthis was in BestBuy
02:59.07doc|homeah, bestbuy = suck
02:59.09ewonheh
02:59.44ewonI'm planning on getting the cheapest contract phone possible, pulling the sim out of it, and sticking it in my 6310i
03:00.26mwester-laptopGo to an AT&T store (not one of their agents), and  if you shout, I'm told you can get a SIM without a phone...
03:00.39ewoninneresting
03:02.00donya I thought the feds passed a law that says the cariers have to allow any phone on their network?
03:02.32mwester-laptopI heard that T-Mobile is more cooperative about it than AT&T
03:03.21ewonthe 6310i to me is the perfect "just a phone"
03:03.33ewonb&w screen, fast menus, does over a week between charges, has bluetooth
03:04.15donproblem is coveage
03:04.47donI'm here in the North East of the U.S. and the only carried with great coverage is Verizon
03:04.59doncarrier
03:05.05don<PROTECTED>
03:06.09donthis room is dead
03:06.21donlets get things going
03:06.44donthe iPhone is the best and will only be surpased by Android.
03:06.50don:)
03:06.53ewonlawl
03:08.17mwester-laptopOr more accurately, the wife will probably be purchasing one for her business.
03:08.17ewonwhich, the iphone?
03:08.26mwester-laptopYep, the iphone.
03:08.52ewonI saw an interesting phone in bestbuy - it was some LG, had the formfactor of a communicator. Ran some shitty LG OS though
03:08.53mwester-laptopGraphics arts business; you don't get taken seriously if you don't appear to speak "Apple" everywhere
03:08.56donI would wait on that
03:09.15donI expect another price drop after January
03:09.27donperhaps some incentives?
03:09.57mwester-laptopYeah, that seems a good thing to do.  Or wait until the next generation iPhone shows up.
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03:10.34mwester-laptopThe funny thing is that she has no need for any of the features (she only uses the phone and directory on her current smart phone) -- it'
03:10.43mwester-laptops purely image in an apple-dominated market.
03:10.45donI used it in an Apple store.  Just the web browser and mp3 player but it was slick
03:11.00donhave no idea how the phone works
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03:12.00mwester-laptopIf it can place a call and do text messaging, that's all it needs to do.  The rest is a business expense, and should be charged to "marketing expenses" I suppose.. :)
03:13.09dontrue enough
03:13.46donI really do hate it's slow edge speeds.
03:13.59donbut the WiFi is key
03:14.41donI am shocked that Verizon's newest phones don't have WiFi.
03:18.35ewonmy one concern is how fast you can thumb-type on a touch-screen
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03:21.30donthumb type?
03:21.39ewonyeah, like when you're texting on a phone
03:21.40donnot going to work well
03:21.49ewonhmmm
03:21.56donhere is a video of them demoing the browser
03:21.57donhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btY2SFVrOsc
03:22.17donyou can see how the typing works
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05:16.31linux_galoredam those Irish are clever, now they have created a virus that bypasses an OS be it Linux or Windows, MAC security http://www.flickr.com/photos/kensingtonvictoria/1479962049/
05:16.46linux_galores/an/any
05:18.17PITABoythat sounds cool
05:18.41PITABoyso it bypasses the OS and does what infects the bootsector?
05:19.36linux_galorePITABoy: click on the link and have a chuckle
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05:26.30PITABoyoh that is an old image saw that about 5 years ago
05:29.58CMPITABoy: It's a hard to kill virus too ;)
05:30.37PITABoyyeah especially with the stupidity in the world
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05:36.24CMHehe
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05:50.02dbmoodbah - the neo1973 final release (when it comes out) will support 3g right ?
05:50.31rasterthe gta-02?
05:50.39dbmoodbyeah
05:50.41rasterno
05:50.55dbmoodbwhy ?....
05:50.57rastergsm/gprs
05:51.04dbmoodbwhat is 3g then ?
05:51.06rasterbecause we havent updated the gsm chipset
05:51.18dbmoodboh so you could do it in the future ?
05:51.29rasternot to mention that if we do that work it will increase the cost of the phone and dleay it more
05:51.35rasterwe could
05:51.39rasterbut not for the gta-02
05:51.42rasterwe dont know yet
05:51.49rasterwe may skip 3g and go to 3.5g
05:51.58rasterbut the cost of suhc a chipset is prohibitive
05:52.00dbmoodbi thought the point was to make a phone that was similar to an iphone
05:52.01rasterits very expensive
05:52.05dbmoodboh so the chipset is the thing ?
05:52.14dbmoodbso edge is the old thing the iphone has right ?
05:52.27rasterthe iphone isnt 3g
05:52.31rasterits really 2.75g
05:52.38rasterits gsm/gprs+edge
05:52.39dbmoodbyeah
05:52.48rasteredge is justa  high speed gprs
05:52.49rasterreally
05:52.52dbmoodbso we have a 2.5g in the neo1973 ?
05:52.57raster3g is where u get to utms
05:53.05rasterthats 300-700kbit (in theory)
05:53.05dbmoodb<PROTECTED>
05:53.10dbmoodbso ... mmm
05:53.19dbmoodbis it going to do 2.5 or just plain 2 ?
05:53.23raster2.5
05:53.25rastergsm/gprs
05:53.33rasterno edge
05:53.35dbmoodbnice
05:53.40dbmoodbso edge is just a little bit faster ?
05:53.43rasterthis keeps the cost down
05:53.48rasterso we can spend $ on things like 802.11
05:53.50rasterbluetooth
05:53.51dbmoodbsure
05:54.04dbmoodbbut i'm sure people would pay a bit more for a 3g phone
05:54.06rastergsm chips, accelerometers, graphics accelerator and vga screen
05:54.11dbmoodbhow much more is the 3g chipset ?
05:54.14dbmoodblike a lot lot more ?
05:54.18rasterthe problem is it will just impact our schedule
05:54.23rasteryes a lot more
05:54.42rasteryou can aonly make money on 3g phones if you sell them in vast numbers
05:54.46dbmoodbsure
05:54.51rasteras best i know the only people making real money on 3g are nokia
05:55.02rasterand thats mostly because they also get royalties for the 3g technology
05:55.03dbmoodbso the chipset is not capable of 3g
05:55.07rasterno its not
05:55.12dbmoodboh mmm
05:55.28rastera chipset capable of it may add somewhere between 100 to 300 to the price
05:55.58rasterand as i said
05:56.00rasterdelay it even more
05:56.03rasterso no 3g
05:56.04raster2.5g
05:56.10rasterthats it
05:56.28dbmoodboh wow
05:56.34dbmoodbtis a lot
05:56.48rasteryes
05:56.50dbmoodbi guess wifi is a lot better any way
05:56.54rasteryup
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05:57.28dbmoodbespecially when you will be able to run all the tool on this phone for your own experimentation only of course
05:57.37pigeonthat's a lot of g-force i tell you.
05:57.56dbmoodbmmm
05:58.10pigeon</joke>
05:58.20dbmoodbok
05:58.34dbmoodbbtw can people still make suggestions
05:58.58dbmoodblike i have a phone here with a led light on it so i can use it as a torch - think this would be a possible addition ?
05:59.06dbmoodb(maybe at some time in the future)
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06:15.23CMdbmoodb: The hardware won't change unless you do it yourself,but the software will :)
06:16.27dbmoodbok - sure so i will just usb led light up
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06:18.58dbmoodbthink it is
06:19.04dbmoodb* hope it is
06:20.39CMdbmoodb: 100mA powered USB host :)
06:20.46dbmoodbcool
06:22.43PITABoycan someone help me make an initramfs
06:24.03dbmoodbok that worked
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06:57.02Batalyxjust toying with an idea, so I'd like to know, if X11 and gtk-stuff is taken off of openmoko, it seems that libmokocore and libmokopim would also go away, am I right?
06:57.37Batalyx(referring to OpenMokoFramework diagaram on wiki)
06:58.55Batalyxand the idea I'm playing with is that would it be possible/feasible to make a gui other than X11 on top of openmoko.
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07:00.44PITABoywhy do you want to change it?
07:01.11PITABoyi can see why you dont want X
07:01.19PITABoybut why do we need to chang gtk
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07:01.36CMBatalyx: Well, pavel has his tui I think, text user interface
07:01.40CM:)
07:01.54CMDon't ask me how to type for it though ;)
07:02.21BatalyxPITABoy: just to see if it's possible :)
07:02.28PITABoyoh
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07:02.35BatalyxCM: slowly? ;)
07:02.37PITABoyit should be possible
07:03.16PITABoyI mean there should be considering that there is qt based guis
07:03.24PITABoyor you could try to use java
07:03.34Batalyx*blech* for java :)
07:04.53BatalyxI think it could give some new ideas of how to implement GUIs for phones. I find myself thinking to much in terms of desktop computer GUIs now, and Neo1973 is not desktop computer ;)
07:05.49JohnMahowaldJava ME?
07:06.54Batalyxand to be honest, I think there's little ground for OM to conquer there. There was some study made in Finland, where they asked elder people what would they like their phone to be like.
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07:08.03joschcan someone tell me how I compile a specific kernel module for openmoko? in my case: uinput?
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07:08.42Batalyxnow openmoko + gui-tests -> phone for all ages?
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07:08.59PITABoyyou should be able to use any kernel
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07:10.51Batalyxfor example, as openmoko has no keypad, the touch screen can be used with big enough (or small enough) keys, only problem being that theres no feeling of pressing a button.
07:11.16Batalyxbut the "buttons" could be faces of the people at phonebook
07:11.41Batalyxetc etc (nothing ground breaking, but certainly worth trying, I think...)
07:13.30TronicIs anyone working on speech recognition or voice commands for OpenMoko?
07:13.30CMjosch: I think you'll have to look in the oe wiki for that. I assume you mean changing the .config for openmoko-linux or?
07:14.14joschCM: don't know how to do that
07:14.37CMI don't know either ;)
07:14.43joschCM: on my host pc I have to do modprobe uinput to use my bt keyboard
07:15.13CMjosch: Hmm.. torpor used his bt keyboard on the neo without any trouble
07:15.34CMJust set it up with bluez as a normal hid
07:15.36joschCM: i know but on mine I have to do this
07:15.55joschid I do hidd --connect I get
07:16.11josch"no such file or directory" message
07:16.12CMOk. Hmm.. Then you need that module compiled for the kernel, and if that's not done by default, you'll need to change the .config
07:16.34joschlooking into the source it tells me that this means that there is uinput missing
07:16.43CMIt's somehow done by running make menuconfig in the tree somewhere,b ut I don't know how. The wiki should say
07:16.47joschon my host pc  it only worked with modprobe uinput
07:16.50CM*nod*
07:17.10joschmkey will serach
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07:23.00cdbot2* * OM Bug 1005 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com
07:23.02cdbot2* * U-boot passthrough does not work for current gsmd
07:23.02cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1005
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07:42.37blindcodermoin
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07:58.06joschhrm... found nothing...
07:58.48joschanybody an idea how to build an ipkg containing  kernel module?
08:00.40CMjosch: Here's someone who might know ;)
08:00.54CMXorA: Morning :)
08:01.07joschXorA, hi! can you help me?
08:01.24XorAjosch: wait a sec, Ill get my cranium saw :-D
08:01.40XorAjosch: wazzup?
08:02.01CMHe wants to add a module to the .config for linux-openmoko
08:02.12joschXorA, for my bt keyboard I have to use uinput as a kernel module
08:02.38joschon my host pc the keyboard only works when doing modprobe uinput
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08:05.30josch(looked up cranium in wikipedia - but what is a cranium saw??)
08:05.56XorAjosch: saw for opening up a cranium :-)
08:05.56doc|homehehehehe
08:06.09doc|homethink .... hannibal
08:06.10DemonaxHas anyone got mplayer going well on the new Neo1973?
08:06.17joschDemitar, I have
08:06.20XorAabraxa_ did
08:06.43joschabraxa__ is hacking the media player that uses mplayer
08:06.44Hopscotchgood morning
08:06.53joschbut you can use mplayer standalone
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08:07.06DemonaxNice, would be neat to see a video of that running.
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08:07.38joschDemonax, I tried to make one but my cam is too bad
08:07.51joschDemonax, but mpeg4 is crisp and clear in qvga
08:08.09joschDemonax, full fps - no problems it the video is in the correct size
08:08.17joschs/it/if/
08:08.23Demonaxqvga? I thought the neo1973 did vga.
08:08.48joschDemonax, yeah, but a 320x240 video in vga would be to small to watch
08:09.01joschso you change the resolution
08:09.14joschto QVGA and then your video looks great
08:09.36DemonaxAh :-) Well at 2.8" who cares.
08:10.00joschDemonax, there is rally NO differnece in quality
08:10.34XorAjosch: I am going to enable uinput in default config as I think it should be there
08:10.51joschXorA, wow, this would be great
08:11.05joschXorA, what can I do for now?
08:11.20XorAjosch: wait 20 mins and Ill check in the new defconfig
08:11.27joschXorA, thx!! :-D
08:12.28CMjosch: See, XorA is a nice guy ;)
08:12.42joschCM, ^^
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08:23.11CMScaredyCat: Don't be sunch an Android fan boy! :P
08:23.20CM*such
08:24.04ScaredyCatpfft, I went to be last night while you sat in that channel chatting away... you big fan boy
08:24.19ScaredyCatbed
08:24.52CM~logs
08:24.53apti guess logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz
08:26.06daMaestrothanks.. i log locally and found them
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08:57.45XorAjosch: done, update and rebuild
08:58.02joschXorA, that was quick!! thx a lot!
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08:59.53joschXorA, if I use the new image now - I have nothing to do than modprobe uinput?
09:00.28XorAjosch: youll need to copy kernel-module-uinput*.ipk to device then install it
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09:00.45joschwow, that is even easier!
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09:05.47joschmoin fgau
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09:06.16fgaujosch: morning
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09:11.19joschPackaged contents of kernel-module-uinput into /media/data/moko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/neo1973/kernel-module-uinput_2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8_neo1973.ipk
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09:26.00CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3389 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/common/moko-dialer-panel.c):
09:26.01CIA-13openmoko: Patch by: Milko Krachounov <exabyte@3mhz.net>
09:26.01CIA-13openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_hold_timeout),
09:26.01CIA-13openmoko: (moko_dialer_panel_pressed): Automatically free the allocated data
09:26.01CIA-13openmoko: structure when the timeout source is
09:26.04CIA-13openmoko: destroyed
09:29.41*** join/#openmoko torpor (n=torpor@zone79a.de)
09:29.43torporyo
09:32.08CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3390 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ (atcmd.c unsolicited.c): keeping track of current registration state internally in gsmd. Without this the"gsmd->dev_state.registered" variable had bogus values. (Andrew)
09:33.37CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3391 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: gsmd: Adding hang up control(Andrew & Tick)
09:35.04CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3392 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: gsmd: return some meaningful value from set_baudrate (Andrew & Tick)
09:35.55CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3393 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/shell.c: gsmd: adding sleep mode into libgsmd-tool shell mode(Tick)
09:36.43CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3394 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 3 dirs): gsmd: cleaning some dummy codes (Tick)
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10:04.47daMaestrowhat package has ntpdate?
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10:05.10daMaestroah.. it would be ntpdate
10:05.11daMaestroneat
10:05.21daMaestrofinally.. the right date :-D
10:06.11daMaestrook.. if anyone wants a sexy hotplug script
10:06.12daMaestrohttp://f3dora.org/paste/476
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10:14.29Psido ya need a special kernel for the qtopia rootfs jffs2 files on http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/
10:16.11CMPsi: I'm guessing the latest one works
10:17.57Psiok ill give it a go :) thanks
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10:36.18BalachmarHi, I have been trying to compile the software under ubuntu for use in qemu before, but that didn't work
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10:36.36BalachmarNow I am trying to get the updates and try again, but I get an error on updating
10:36.54Balachmarsvn: REPORT request failed on '/repos/matchbox/!svn/vcc/default'
10:36.54Balachmarsvn: Cannot replace a directory from within
10:37.05BalachmarAnyone knows how to fix this?
10:39.40mickeylblame upstream
10:39.44mickeylthen remove the svn directory
10:39.46mickeyland let OE recheckout
10:41.09Balachmarwas that in reaction to my question?
10:41.23Balachmarbecause if it is I still don't know what you want me to do
10:41.32mickeylhmm
10:41.34mickeylok
10:41.39mickeylblame upstream = curse OHand
10:41.53mickeylremove the svn directory = rm $DL_DIR/svn/matchbox (or so)
10:41.55CM~curse o-hand
10:42.05aptMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, o-hand !
10:42.05mickeyllet OE recheckout... well
10:42.06mickeyl= just try again
10:43.18BalachmarCan't seem to find the svn dir
10:43.46mickeylmickey@andromeda:/local/pkg/sources$ ls -l svn/svn.o-hand.com/
10:44.26ScaredyCathey mickeyl ...
10:44.31mickeylgreetings ScaredyCat
10:44.38CMBalachmar: As mickeyl said, when you're in your moko dir, look in sources/svn/svn.o-hand.com/repos/
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10:44.48ScaredyCatbtw u-boot and booting from sd seems broken...
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10:44.58mickeylmwester-laptop: is your "power off gsm" patch somewhere yet?
10:45.00ScaredyCat(still)
10:45.13mickeylScaredyCat: even in the august snapshot?
10:45.16ScaredyCatya
10:45.19ScaredyCatwell
10:45.20mickeylbummer
10:45.34Balachmarmaybe that isn't there because I was using these directions: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu
10:45.41ScaredyCatwell, I found a u-boot that works
10:45.46mickeylwhich one?
10:45.53ScaredyCatfrom August 12th
10:45.57ScaredyCatlemmie get the numbers
10:46.28ScaredyCat1.2.0-moko9_r13_0_2632_0
10:46.46mickeylCould you please add that finding to 799?
10:46.48mickeyl!ombug 799
10:46.49cdbot2* * Bug 799, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
10:46.50cdbot2* * obri(AT)chaostreff.ch: data abort while reading from SD Cards
10:46.51cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=799
10:47.26CMu-boot really needs to be fixed soon or GTA02 will have a lot of unhappy new hackers..
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10:52.22CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3395 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
10:52.22CIA-13openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-textview.c: (moko_dialer_textview_init),
10:52.22CIA-13openmoko: (moko_dialer_textview_set_color):
10:52.22CIA-13openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-textview.h:
10:52.22CIA-13openmoko: Remove cursor indicator and always add/remove characters from the end of
10:52.24CIA-13openmoko: the dialer display. Closes bug 940.
10:53.37ScaredyCatdone
10:53.43ScaredyCata little slow, but done
10:53.50mickeylthanks!
10:54.27ScaredyCattorpor is a little unhappy though
10:54.39ScaredyCatbricked his neo trying to find a good u-boot
10:57.08mickeylno access to a debug board?
10:57.31mickeyltorpor: where are you located?
10:57.33XorAmickeyl: he does, but his FPC connectors both ends snapped
10:57.43mickeylsnapped?
10:57.56XorAmickeyl: the black clips I beleive snapped off
10:58.00mickeylaargh
10:58.12XorAso nothing to hold the FPC in place in the connector
10:58.16mickeyldarn
10:58.27mickeyli could send him a new debug board, but not a new neo
10:58.36ScaredyCathehe... dang...
10:58.56XorAwe need a .eu soldering lab for ill Neos
10:59.10XorAthe repairs are fairly simple for a soldering tech
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11:32.32Ghiottone|workhello
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11:37.35joschhey guys!! surprise new bt keyboard problem! :-)
11:37.48joschplease have a look at it here: http://pastebin.ca/770540
11:38.35joschas you can see, I can use the keyboard on my ubuntu now but and with uinput the error message on my neo went away but if I hit some keys on the neo nothing happens
11:39.07joschwhat does my host system have that openmoko does not concerning bt keyboard input?
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11:49.36joschwhere can I find out which kernel modules are used on my host pc when I successfully connect there?
11:50.37lukaszbjosch: lsmod?
11:51.45joschlukaszb, but lsmod will give me all the loaded modules
11:52.05joschhow can I find out which one I need?
11:52.23joschI don't even know if this is because a missing kernel module
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11:55.36dpapHas GTA01Bv4 Global potition system?
11:56.05dpap*position
11:56.43ScaredyCatit has a gps chip, but you can't use it - yet
11:57.11flexdunless you are some sort of uber gps-chip-driver making genious
11:57.49joschor unless you are taking illegal actions
11:57.51*** part/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo)
11:58.15flexdI understand om has to go the legal way
11:58.23flexdand has to live by those rules and stuff
11:58.33ScaredyCatjosch: well, technically that doesn't have to be the case
11:58.51joschyeah "technically"
11:58.53flexdbut im not gonna object if someone random, not-affiliated with om would somehow get us a driver/make a driver, i woudlnt mind. :p
11:59.00ScaredyCatno
11:59.04ScaredyCattechnically.
11:59.16ScaredyCatom accidentally distributed gllin to some devs
11:59.19dpapu-blox/Atmel ATR0635 Is this tha gps chip?
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11:59.46joschScaredyCat, I know gllin is floating around somewhere in the net - some have it
11:59.47flexdhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS
11:59.55ScaredyCatsince they aren't under nda etc... they, in theory at least, wouldn't be breaking any laws
12:00.50ScaredyCatjosch: there's a difference between it 'floating around the net' and a genuine accidental distribution
12:00.53joschokay - then my thoughts were wrong... what exactly prevents them from distributing an OSS driver if they have not signed an nda
12:01.11ScaredyCatom are under the nda etc
12:01.31joschScaredyCat, but because of this accidental distribution it is floating around
12:01.38ScaredyCatand afaik there was never source floating about
12:01.45ScaredyCatjust a bin
12:01.49joschScaredyCat, yeah, no source
12:02.10*** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand)
12:02.11joschso what exactly is illegal about distributing the binary?
12:02.28flexdit's copyrighted to someone else i assume..?
12:02.32ScaredyCatyes
12:02.32flexdand they say no
12:02.41ScaredyCatbasically
12:03.05ScaredyCatthere was also an issue of the original owner being purchased by another company
12:03.17joschoh
12:03.20*** join/#openmoko dpap_ (n=chatzill@adsl47-166.ath.forthnet.gr)
12:03.40dpap_>u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 Is this gps chip?
12:03.55joschdpap, it's the chip for gta02
12:04.15mickeylthe gps chip in gta02 has no problems whatsoever, since it's an autonomous chip
12:04.16joschdpap, gta01 uses a hammerhead chip - it's all in the wiki
12:04.40mickeylgta01 gps is what gives us legal nightmares. pending OpenMoko Inc. writing an EULA. no, don't ask me why it takes so long :/
12:05.10joschmickeyl, what is wrong about someone posting an url where another one put his "illegal" gllin binary?
12:05.16ScaredyCatmickeyl: I'd go for a straight swap instead.... gta01 for a gta02 :)
12:05.30mickeyljosch: you mean other than that it's illegal?
12:05.34ScaredyCatlol
12:05.39mickeylScaredyCat: heh
12:05.44joschit's only illegal in some countries
12:05.57mickeylwell, do what you want to do, but don't expect me blessing it
12:05.57joschif I host in timbuktu it's probably not illegal
12:05.58mjrlinking isn't illegal in places still preserving some sanity
12:06.10ScaredyCatnorway?
12:06.13mjrwhich is, to be fair, not every jurisdiction
12:06.28dpap_why a gps chip is illegal?
12:06.36mjrdpap_, get a clue
12:06.37ScaredyCatit's not the chi
12:06.37ScaredyCatp
12:06.43ScaredyCatit's the software
12:06.48flexdsomeone made a driver for it
12:06.53ScaredyCatget some manners
12:06.56flexdthey want money for it/to keep it for themselves
12:07.04flexdaka om cant give it out for free
12:07.14mickeylwe can
12:07.18mickeylwe just need to include an EULA
12:07.40mickeyl"just"
12:07.42flexdwhen you say EULA, isnt that like... a tiny text document with legal stuff?
12:07.43dpap_when GTA02 will be realesed?
12:07.59ScaredyCatto prevent reverse engineering mickeyl?
12:08.17ScaredyCatI say 'prevent' ...
12:08.20mickeylno
12:08.23joschI may have understood it wrong but is the only thing we are waiting for that FIC releases an EULA???
12:08.30mickeylto adhere with the terms under which we got the right to distribute
12:08.41mickeyli have no idea what's written in that EULA and i don't care
12:08.44mickeyli just want to get it
12:08.48mickeylso that i can distribute it
12:08.54mickeyland you guys can finally use gps
12:08.55mickeyl*sigh*
12:08.57joschwow, this really s****...
12:09.10joschyou mean: use it legally...
12:09.17ynezzuse it at all
12:09.27XorAjosch: well 50 people can use it legally :-)
12:09.45joschXorA, hurray! :-)
12:09.46ScaredyCatcan't you just employ us all :)
12:09.49dpapOnly this plz:When GTA02 will be realesed?
12:10.02mjrsee topic
12:10.11XorAScaredyCat: yes, but the corporate branding is a bit painful :-D
12:10.16ScaredyCatwhen it's completed dpap - ie we don;t know
12:10.26ScaredyCatXorA: heheheh
12:10.55joschdpap, http://www.google.de/search?q=when+it's+done
12:11.17mickeylScaredyCat: i'd love to
12:11.20mickeyl(employ)
12:11.34mickeylperhaps once I have more power
12:11.36dpapI saw the topic but it says in Dec..Will be in the middle of December?
12:11.37joschwohooo! employ me!!
12:11.50joschdpap, WE DO NOT KNOW
12:12.08XorAdpap: I would guess a jolly bearded guy in red might get lucky :-)
12:12.27ScaredyCatmickeyl: you'd need a bigger office :)
12:12.39XorAScaredyCat: and padded cells
12:12.45dpapWhat is missing from Software for me to create???;-)
12:12.54mickeylScaredyCat: don't worry about the office, it's large enough.
12:13.19mickeylseriously, if OM is still alive in 12 months from now, I would expect us to hire more guys
12:13.30joschwell, can anybody have a look at my bt keyboard problem again? I think only a kernel module is missing but I do not know wich one: http://pastebin.ca/770540
12:13.42ScaredyCatyou not expecting it to last 12 months?
12:14.05mickeyli do
12:14.16mickeylit's just that I'm becoming a pessimist slowly
12:14.17ScaredyCator was that just a 'something else might replace om on fix devices'
12:14.20mickeylLaf0rge has infected me
12:14.23ScaredyCatahh ok...
12:14.30ScaredyCatroflmao
12:14.38rohScaredyCat also it makes no sense just throwing more people all the time..
12:14.58ScaredyCatI always suspected Laf0rge was a virus
12:15.00rohdevelopment actually gets slower when the rate of joining devels is too high
12:15.15ScaredyCatroh, yes, I know...
12:15.20ScaredyCatslower and more expensive
12:16.02dcordeswhat's the reason for getting pessimistic?
12:16.19ScaredyCatlack of coffee....
12:16.34rohdcordes no reason.. just a lot developers who have lawyers standing on their feet too often..
12:16.37roh<PROTECTED>
12:17.07rohbut thats the pain they need to endure to get the stuff out to you.. *ducks*
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12:18.10dpapIs neo1973 Java enabled?
12:18.16lukaszbHow long does building OM from scratch takes? /me wonders whether it will finish today
12:18.22ScaredyCatroh: the good news should be that once it's done one time, and gpl'd then the issues are over :)
12:18.40joschlukaszb, 6h on my sys
12:18.43mickeyllukaszb: depends on your machine. openmoko-image takes 3 hours here
12:19.00mickeyl:)
12:19.07ScaredyCat8 hours from scratch for me
12:19.09mickeylnah, it's new. let me have fun with it for a couple of months
12:19.15rohScaredyCat well.. not really.. its always tripping the rift when you follow an nda you signed with some hw-vendor but are allowed to write open drivers ;)
12:19.15ScaredyCathehe
12:19.37flexdlukaszb: what specs your machine got? mine went trough the night
12:20.26rastermy machine is a cheese popsicle
12:20.41ScaredyCatmmmmm cheese
12:20.49dpapLeopard will not have java 1.6.Will OM have?I can't find any paper in wiki about Java....
12:20.52rasteri.e. it loves to not build OM
12:21.18lukaszbflexd: P4 2.8GHz & 512MB
12:21.19rasterdpap: thats so far outside our focus right now.
12:21.38rasterlukaszb: go make a lot of cups of coffee
12:21.55rasterlukaszb: actually. take a flight to brazil and pick up some fresh coffee, come back
12:21.55rastermake it
12:21.59rasterthen it'll be done
12:22.20ScaredyCatseen the new airbus?
12:22.21joschlukaszb, hope you have turned on multi processor usage?
12:22.23dpapbut OM i flexible right?anyone will can put java in?
12:22.32ScaredyCat1st class in that is sweet
12:22.55rasterdpap:  bingo
12:22.56lukaszbjosch: sure ;-)
12:22.59zashdpap: i think there is ppl working on that, check projects.openmoko.org
12:23.09rasterdpap: if we dont have time/focus for it
12:23.10lukaszbGood that I've started this on screen.
12:23.12rasteranyone can do it
12:24.20flexdlukaszb: i used like, 6hours with a amd 4000+ single core 2gb ram
12:24.27flexdor wait, wrong machine :/
12:24.37flexdhttp://flexd.ath.cx/.phpsysinfo/
12:24.37flexdthat
12:24.45flexdwas the machine compiling om
12:26.02mjrpython <3
12:27.56flexdpython <3
12:28.20mjrprobably my future apps too
12:29.19joschas long as it's GUI I will use python, if there is low level fast work to do C and for web development perl
12:30.09josch<= yeah I also could use python for the last one but I'm especially in love with perl - and it's faster
12:30.36joschso... is there anybody caring about my puny problem? http://pastebin.ca/770540
12:30.51flexdmjr: neo remote?
12:31.25mjrhttp://mjr.iki.fi/software/remote-0.9.0.tar.gz
12:31.34mjrit'd need cleanup and stuff...
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12:32.57mjrjosch, you do have something that takes keyboard input up on the neo, right? :]
12:33.19joschmjr, ??
12:33.24joschI use ssh for now
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12:35.02joschmjr, what do you mean?
12:35.06mjryes, but when you try to type something, you do have a terminal or somesuch up in the neo
12:35.17joschof course I do
12:35.26mjrjust checking...
12:35.29josch:-/
12:35.44joschI'm not that stupid...
12:37.13joschmjr, you can also see that the line "Connected to 00:0A:3A:05:C8:12 on channel 1" is not appearing
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12:37.30joschon the neo but the keyboard led says: connected
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12:38.09joschthis is the reason I suspected a kernel module missing
12:38.10CIA-13openmoko: 03olv * r3396 10/developers/olv/xserver/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: XVideo support and some code cleanup, still very unstable
12:39.00mjrmine doesn't say connected either
12:39.05mjrprobably a hidd version difference
12:39.19mjrdoes work though
12:39.21mjrsee dmesg?
12:39.21jserv--hey, XVideo support!
12:39.26mjr"<6>input: Broadcom Keyboard as /class/input/input3
12:39.41joschmjr, but your keyboard is not needing uinput isn't it?
12:39.53olvjserv--: I should put underscores around _unstable_
12:39.55ScaredyCatdidn't someone get it working ok wiht an apple keyboard...
12:39.56mjrmm, apparently not
12:40.11jserv--olv, unstable here is stable for OM.
12:40.13jserv--:P
12:40.36mjrwhich is nice since I don't have an uinput module on my neo
12:40.53joschScaredyCat, yeah - I head some trouble since my keyboard was not working after I took the steps described in the wiki
12:41.10joschapparently my keyboard also needs no pairing
12:41.18mjrmine neither
12:41.31joschthe solution to connect was to modprobe uinput - I wrote it in the wiki
12:41.58joschnow the first error "Can't open input device: No such file or directory (2)" has gone away
12:42.28joschbut atm nothing happens - the keyboard led shows "connected" but contrary to my ubuntu nothing else happens
12:42.58joschin ubuntu I had the same problems thet where solved with modprobe uinput - but afterwards it worked
12:43.02joschnot so on openmoko
12:43.48joschmy problem: I can do lsmod and see what modules are loaded on my host but I do not see which one are needed for my keyboard to work
12:44.04joschI even do not know if this problem is about missing kernel modules
12:44.54joschmjr, the uinput module was added to openmoko today by XorA for me
12:45.09josch(and of course all the others needing it)
12:45.13XorAgah, I get all the blame :-D
12:45.23joschXorA, now, you get the praise!!
12:45.38joschmy first problem is gone - next to solve
12:46.04joschs/now/no/
12:46.31XorAtime for lunch
12:46.31flexdso
12:46.37flexdhow much does bluetooth keyboards cost anyway? ;o
12:47.17joschflexd, a lot... I got lukky and found a 25€ bt keyboard on ebay
12:47.40mjrthe "manully using GPRS" stuff on the wiki presumably assumes that gpsd is off?
12:48.33joschmjr, what terminal?
12:49.16*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net)
12:50.26mjrin the general sense of I'd like a mobile terminal out of neo, bt keyboard, openmoko-terminal, gprs
12:50.44mjrnow checking out the gprs
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13:13.46mjrwhee, I have gprs
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13:20.57joschmjr, xplain!
13:21.37mjrwhat?
13:22.41joschmjr, how you did it
13:22.48joscheverything as in the wiki?
13:24.11BalachmarHi, I just installed openmoko under qemu from svn
13:24.37mjrPretty much everything, though I did configure the lcp-echo-interval to 0 in light of my previous experiences. And killed gsmd before starting pppd, 'course, which is a shame to have to do for now but anyway
13:25.06mjrother than that, just replaced the pin and apn in the chatscript really
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13:25.25xzcvczxg
13:25.28xzcvczxoops
13:29.24Stephmwxzcvczx: haha! ousted!
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13:30.22xzcvczx+phone :P
13:32.37joschwhat's the difference between ohci_hcd, ehci_hcd and uhci_hcd kernel modules?
13:33.24Stephmwdifferent chipsets iirc, no?
13:35.10LittleIdiotdid i mention that i hate the pulseaudio api? ;)
13:35.52LittleIdioti wonder what the reasons were for choosing pulseaudio
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13:42.37BalachmarI have a little trouble running openmoko in qemy from svn
13:42.54BalachmarI get a prompt like this: GTA01Bv4 #  
13:43.00BalachmarBut what should I do now?
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13:44.58ScaredyCatthats the u-boot prompt
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13:45.12ScaredyCatlike you see on ACM0
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13:46.44Balachmaryes, but what should I do to run the visual emulation?
13:48.33ScaredyCatdunno, seems odd to me that you see that... but I don;t use qemu...
13:48.46ScaredyCatnot sure if there's a boot command in u-boot...
13:48.49ScaredyCattried it?
13:49.43Balachmarooh, after a while it terminates
13:49.53Balachmaropenmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 16846 Terminated              $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0
13:49.53BalachmarU-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up.
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13:51.00ScaredyCatthe clue should be in the: -serial stdio -nographic
13:52.57Balachmarso, what should I do to get it running then?
13:52.57ScaredyCatlooks like it was trying to flash it
13:53.13ScaredyCatI dunno, 1 sec
13:54.46mwestermickey|lunch:  http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1003
13:55.27mwesterGotta run, have to go visit a customer today.
13:56.50CMScaredyCat: !?!
13:56.56CMI'm busy slacking here!
13:57.14ScaredyCathelp Balachmar with quemu then :)
13:57.20ScaredyCatqemu
13:57.34Balachmar:)
13:58.24CMBalachmar: Have you rebuilt qemu recently?
13:58.49BalachmarCM: I just installed it from svn
13:59.00Balachmarusing: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU
13:59.33CMOk. If you're using the makefile, it was a bug in the link to the rootfs. Not sure if it's updated
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14:00.15Balachmarwell, yes I did use make, so I have used a makefile
14:00.52BalachmarWhere should I fix what?
14:00.59Balachmarthen I might be able to try again
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14:07.46joschsooo... can someone tell my how to build ipk packages for specific kernel modules?
14:07.49CMBalachmar: Sorry, got stuck on the phone
14:08.30joscha few hours ago XorA did that for me but I want to test the modules hid and hid_usb
14:08.37CMBalachmar: Look at line 421 in the Makefile, what does it say?
14:08.45*** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw)
14:08.52CMBalachmar: Mine says ( cd build/qemu && openmoko/flash.sh ../tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973 )
14:09.08joschmaybe those are the modules I need for my bt keyboard - any kernel hackers around?
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14:10.04ScaredyCatjosch: iirc they're in my repo
14:10.33joschScaredyCat, thx!!
14:10.51CMusbhid is, and some called hidp
14:11.45joschScaredyCat, I can only find usbhid and hidp
14:12.11joschwhat is hidp? I modprobed it but it doesn't solve the error
14:12.34ScaredyCatwhat was the other one?
14:12.34edistarBalachmar: are you running make qemu?
14:12.49joschwanted to try hid and hid_usb
14:13.01ScaredyCatis hidusb installed?
14:13.12ScaredyCatusbhid even
14:13.34joschScaredyCat, on my neo you mean?
14:13.39ScaredyCatya
14:14.33joschScaredyCat, you mean hid_usb? It is not. usbhid is installed
14:16.18edistarStephmw: you won't get much for them anymore :P
14:17.24edistarStephmw: or do you want to buy?
14:17.54joschScaredyCat, otherwise it would say "FATAL: Module usbhid not found." when modprobing it but it didn't solve my problem
14:18.17joschso I'm searching for a way to compile the hid and usbhid kernel modules
14:18.25ScaredyCat$ ls /lib/modules/2.6.22.5-moko11/kernel/drivers/hid/
14:18.25ScaredyCatusbhid
14:18.25ScaredyCatroot@fic-gta01:~$                    
14:18.44ScaredyCati think it myght be a defconfig thing
14:19.08joschI heard you add something to a .configure but don't ask me where and what...
14:19.21joschScaredyCat, I get the same output
14:20.53XorAStephmw: roll up roll up, fresh Zaurii, buy two for a grand, two for a grand
14:21.19joschXorA, can you explain to me what you did tomorrow?
14:21.27joschs/tomorrow/totay/
14:21.32XorAjosch: just make menuconfig in kernel
14:21.55joschwhat explicit folder is the kernel in?
14:21.56XorAjosch: then copy new .config over defconfig-2.6.22-5 in package/linux/linux-openmoko
14:22.09XorAtmp/work/neo*/linux-openmoko/*
14:22.13joschthx
14:22.20StephmwXorA: ;)
14:22.25XorAor bitbake -c menuconfig :-)
14:22.35Stephmwedistar: interested in buying... couldn't afford em when they were new
14:22.52edistarStephmw: what is so great about them?
14:23.02BalachmarCM: my makefile is 282 lines...
14:23.07edistarStephmw: I honestly don't know, thats why I'm asking
14:23.10XorAmain problem with them is the shipping cost is more than the worth of them
14:23.28Stephmwedistar: small foldable linux devices with keyboards
14:23.33edistarStephmw: ah, ok
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14:23.46Stephmwedistar: ... I like the clamshell design, the N810's screen is too... exposed for me
14:23.56Balachmaredistar: no, I ran make
14:24.06edistarBalachmar: ok
14:24.08Balachmarjust like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU told me
14:24.13StephmwXorA: depends where from/to I guess
14:24.17edistarBalachmar: I had the same error with make qemu
14:24.30Balachmaredistar: I had that as well...
14:24.44edistarok
14:24.54edistarmaybe it's not our fault : P
14:25.10XorAStephmw: Im in UK where are you?
14:25.17BalachmarBut now I tried doing stuff manually instead of with http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu
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14:26.09joschXorA, I navigated to /build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8 but can not do menuconfig <= ??
14:26.09zashU-boot failed to finish writing in 120 seconds, giving up.
14:26.15zash:(
14:26.43XorAjosch: you probably using rm_work to remove workdirs after build
14:26.59XorAjosch: bitbake -c clean linux-openmoko; bitbake -c menuconfig linux-openmoko
14:27.05StephmwXorA: in London, also the UK :)
14:27.27joschk, will use bitbake then
14:27.47joschXorA, yeah I use rm_work
14:28.12BalachmarCM: any ideas? because my makefiles was 281 lines...
14:28.52XorAStephmw: got a C860 sitting here I never use
14:30.16StephmwXorA: I'm interested - after using it for a while, any caveats?
14:31.30XorAStephmw: probably needs a new battery to get its full battery life back, but it is the model with accellerated graphics including Xv support
14:32.02XorAStephmw: has nicer keyboard than the CXX00 devices
14:32.07StephmwXorA: I'm definitely interested then, for my unholy Java experiments
14:32.13XorAStephmw: but of course no internal HD
14:32.46StephmwXorA: that's fairly ok, I have a few 4gb cf cards
14:33.11StephmwOoo, those'd come in handy for the insurers
14:34.53XorAhttp://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html
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14:38.40borg_http://pastebin.ca/770696
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14:38.58borg_is there a new package for gsmd or something?
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14:44.33BalachmarI just got this after running flash.sh
14:44.34BalachmarGTA01Bv4 # setenv bootcmd '
14:47.48BalachmarI still get the command prompt: GTA01Bv4 #
14:48.03BalachmarWhat should I type, or is there something wrong elsewhere?
14:50.26CMBalachmar: Sorry, was busy on a coffee break.. :P
14:50.39Balachmar@CM As was I before :)
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14:51.00CMBalachmar: How come your makefile is that old? Tried a make update-makefile?
14:51.18Balachmarshould I do that even when using svn?
14:51.47Balachmar(command not found)
14:52.05CMHmm.. I'll check the wiki
14:52.09Balachmarthis is what I checked out: svn checkout https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973
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14:53.57CMBalachmar: Why doing it manually? It seems a lot harder
14:55.03Balachmarbecause the other way didn't work :)
14:55.04CMBalachmar: This might be easier: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_QEMU_with_MokoMakefile
14:55.27CMI just took the makefile and did a make qemu and that worked
14:55.47BalachmarCM: ok, I will try that one just removing my old stuff first
14:56.01CMTakes a while to build everything though
14:56.05woglindesvn ix fixed
14:57.30Balachmar@woglinde: regarding my problems or some others?
14:57.49Balachmar@CM should I update the make file now first or not?
14:57.51woglindeböachmar the missing file from upstream
14:58.06woglindeblachmar which compiler do you use?
14:58.38Balachmar@woglinde both 3.3 and 4.x are available
14:59.26Balachmar@CM busy making
14:59.32joschXorA, can you help me again? I get this error when doing menuconfig: build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8/temp/run.do_menuconfig.22233: line 246: gnome-terminal: command not found <= do I need gnome-terminal??? I don't even have X!!
15:00.15XorAjosch: oh, I didnt realise it needed to fire up a terminal, then you will need to cd into tmp/work/neo*/linux-openmoko*/linux-*
15:00.27XorAjosch: and do a make menuconfig
15:02.03CMBalachmar: The later the better, just get the newest one :)
15:02.36Balachmar@CM I just downloaded the makefile, so I assume it is the latest available
15:02.46joschXorA, but as you mentioned I have to delete rm_work beforehand?
15:02.59CM*nod*
15:03.20XorAjosch: well bitbake -c clean linux-openmoko; bitbake -c patch linux-openmoko before hand
15:03.41StephmwXorA: btw, you've got comment spam on your 'goodbye zaurus' post
15:04.20joschXorA, I use the makefile so I will do make clean-package-linux-openmoko
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15:05.28XorAjosch: I dont know the MokoMakefile syntax for that, someone here is bound to
15:05.41XorAStephmw: cheers, must be time to upgrade SPAM module again
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15:06.19joschXorA, I looked into the makefile and make-clean-package does bitbake -c clean XY
15:07.11joschokay doing this deletes my moko/build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8 folder
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15:08.51joschokay I modified the makefile to support a make patch-package-% command <= this restores the build folder
15:09.18joschXorA, but still not possible to do make menuconfig
15:09.39joschXorA, my folder is: build/tmp/work/neo1973-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8
15:10.39XorAjosch: you need to find the makefile way of running the clean task, then the patch task, then you can cd into that work folder and do make menuconfig
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15:11.11joschI did bitbake -c clean and -c patch via the makefile
15:11.36joschI'm sure I did because after bitbake -c clean my linux-openmoko-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr3238-r8 folder was gone
15:11.47joschand after bitbake -c patch it was there again
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15:12.23joschso I cd into the folder bitbake -c patch created and do make menuconfig
15:12.58joschbut it doesn't work -> no rule to make target
15:13.22joschI'm pretty sure I'm in the right folder because bitbake deleted and recreated it
15:13.31joschwhat could I've done wrong
15:15.06ScaredyCatjust use -c rebuild
15:17.22joschScaredyCat, for what exactly?
15:18.00joschwill -c rebuild do the same as -c clean and -c build ?
15:18.16ScaredyCatyes
15:18.27XorAScaredyCat: he wants to edit the .config before building
15:18.33joschbut I do not want it to build
15:18.35ScaredyCatoh...
15:18.39joschyeah
15:18.54joschI want to enable building two modules as ipks
15:19.13XorAI do bitbake -c clean linux-openmoko; bitbake -c patch linux-openmoko; cd ${WORKDIR}/linux-*; make menuconfig here
15:19.15joschXorA, I'm now able to use bitbake without the makefile
15:19.23ScaredyCatmodify your defconfig then, no?
15:19.27XorAbut seems needs slightly different for MokoMakefile
15:20.35joschbut if I go into the directory that was deleted by bitbake -c clean and recreated by bitbake -c build, then I can be sure I am in the right directory can't I?
15:20.54XorAjosch: your path looked good
15:21.08XorAjosch: but add a linux-2.6.22-5
15:21.15XorAjosch: go one directory further
15:22.13buzif that has a browser and an audio out, i'm gonna buy it
15:22.47joschXorA, ahhh!!! right!
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15:26.48joschhrmm... where can I find hid and hidusb in the menuconfig?
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15:29.26BalachmarCM: I needed to update the makefile :)
15:29.43CMBalachmar: Ah, so getting further now? :)
15:30.00BalachmarCM: making again :)
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15:30.22CMHehe, good thing you're patient ;)
15:30.49ifworkcouldkillI just installed the 11.10. built from buildhost.automated.it am I the only one who can see a face underneath the clock? uh?
15:31.32ScaredyCatThat's me!
15:31.33BalachmarCM: Well I really want to see the software before I start thinking about buying the phone :)
15:31.42ifworkcouldkillhahaha
15:32.05BalachmarCM: is this warning ok? :*** Warning - bad CRC or NAND, using default environment
15:32.06CMScaredyCat: *lol*
15:32.30ScaredyCatit's so you can tell my version from the non scaredycat version, just by looking at the main screen
15:32.32joschBalachmar, all warings are okay as long as they do not stop your pc from building your image
15:32.41ScaredyCatso, you're not going mad :)
15:32.49CMBalachmar: Hmm.. Think so. Btw, balrog-kun knows a lot more than me about all qemu issues :)
15:33.07ifworkcouldkillScaredyCat: That must be the view of the neo camera add on...
15:33.09Balachmarok, thanks both
15:33.47ScaredyCat:)
15:34.04ScaredyCatyou are the only one who has mentioned it htough ifworkcouldkill
15:34.10BalachmarCM: it is now at: pcf_write: charge voltage 4.20V. not doing much, but not failing either (this is where it normally would fail)
15:34.12ScaredyCatthough
15:34.53flexdifworkcouldkill: what? where? how link!
15:35.03BalachmarCM: still fails :)
15:35.08Balachmarthis error:
15:35.10Balachmaropenmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 25090 Terminated              $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0
15:35.10BalachmarU-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up.
15:35.10Balachmarmake: *** [flash-qemu-official] Error 255
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15:35.34CMHrmpf...
15:36.04joschI'm gonna sell t-shirts: "I HATE QEMU"
15:36.12CMBalachmar: That happens all the time to people, seemingly at random
15:36.15CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3397 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (6 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:36.15CIA-13openmoko: * src/common/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_get_photo),
15:36.15CIA-13openmoko: (moko_contacts_add_contact):
15:36.15CIA-13openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_pressed):
15:36.15CIA-13openmoko: * src/common/moko-dialer-textview.c:
15:36.18CIA-13openmoko: (moko_dialer_textview_set_color):
15:36.20CIA-13openmoko: * src/dialer/moko-keypad.c: (on_panel_user_input),
15:36.22CMjosch: Hehe.. I'll get one too ;)
15:36.54joschI will stick to my "I HATE FFMPEG" shirt
15:37.08ScaredyCatnowt wrong with ffmpeg...
15:37.09Balachmar@CM: just checked line 421 in the makefile, which looks like it is the same as yours
15:37.17flexdScaredyCat: does images of such things exist?
15:37.18flexdLink!
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15:38.06ScaredyCatimages flexd?
15:38.30flexdi heard something about a camera
15:38.32flexdand a neo
15:38.35flexdcamera + neo
15:38.37flexdimages if any!
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15:40.06CMBalachmar: I think rwhitby fixed that already, was just a problem if you had an old makefile :)
15:40.39ScaredyCatflexd: no, it was a comment about the picture embedded in my build images...
15:41.00ScaredyCatno camera + neo - sorry
15:41.07Balachmarok, so no one knows how to fix this? because I am having this error for a while now...
15:41.24Balachmar(maybe you remember me from a few weeks ago cm?
15:41.39flexdScaredyCat: np, i didnt think there was, just assumed from what little i saw, i just got here ^_^
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15:45.01BalachmarCM: maybe I need to install qemu first?
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15:45.22CMBalachmar: No, just make qemu builds it
15:46.19Balachmarmmm, than I really don't know...
15:48.06CMBalachmar: You're not alone.. http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=937
15:49.05BalachmarGTA01Bv4 # setenv bootcmd '
15:49.14Balachmarthis is what I get now
15:49.29Balachmarmy proc is using 100%
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16:12.40CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3398 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (16 files in 3 dirs):
16:12.40CIA-13openmoko: * Makefile.am:
16:12.40CIA-13openmoko: * data/gtk-2.0/*:
16:12.40CIA-13openmoko: * data/matchbox/*:
16:12.40CIA-13openmoko: - Move the GTK+ theme to it's own directory
16:12.41CIA-13openmoko: - Include matchbox box theme via svn:externals
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16:26.43joschcan someone explain to me the output of libgsm-tool?
16:26.46joschpr=10
16:26.46josch# 10, 4916092046673, 145, Taires Bayl
16:26.58joschwhat does 145 stand for?
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16:29.48CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3399 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog data/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer): * data/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer: Fix dialer theme
16:30.22Sup3rkiddojosch: i guess thats the type...see the source of libgsmd,
16:30.35joschhi Sup3rkiddo
16:31.16Sup3rkiddojosch: hi =D
16:31.27balrog-kun145 means an international numbering scheme
16:31.35balrog-kuni.e. includes the country code
16:31.41joschSup3rkiddo, I still do not have success with sendung/receiving sms...
16:31.53balrog-kun49 is the country code, don't remember which country that is
16:32.02joschgermany
16:32.26josch145... international numbering scheme? what scheme?
16:32.27balrog-kunthat's what i thought :)
16:32.48balrog-kunjosch: GSM defines some 8 different numbering schemes, see the docs
16:32.54joschthx
16:32.59balrog-kun129 is national (i.e. no country code)
16:33.11Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: you happen know some internals of libgsmd? you have aby idea what ask_ds member is doing in some structures..i have been hardcoding them in my code to 1
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16:33.25joschto send sms via libgsmd-tool this is right? : ss=0,01606881489,"test"
16:33.34balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: it's whether you want a confirmation for you sms
16:33.48balrog-kunif it's 0, then you're not requesting a confirmation
16:34.06balrog-kunor rather, confirmation of the delivery of the sms
16:34.15Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: hmm, ok thanks, delivery report
16:34.26balrog-kunoh right
16:34.28joschnever heard of a delivery report for sms?
16:34.59Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: but its rather useless isnt, afaik, libgsmd doesnt handle reports?
16:35.01joschso if I do ss=0,01606881489,"test" <= is 0 the ask_ds value Sup3rkiddo talked about?
16:35.16balrog-kunjosch: my old phone sometimes displayed a screen saying "your message has been delivered succesfully" or something like this, it's this thing
16:35.49balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: yeah, i think the decoding of the delivery reports is not yet implemented
16:36.02balrog-kunthey come in PDU format called DS
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16:36.09joschbalrog-kun, okay so if I do ss=0,01606881489,"test" then I state I do not want a confirmation but still my sms do not get sent - how can I debug this?
16:36.12balrog-kunand we only decode SMS and CB formats
16:36.12LarstiQSup3rkiddo: with my provider it's useless anyway since they don't honour it
16:36.30Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: yes!, does the GSM spec have these details..
16:36.38LarstiQSup3rkiddo: instead you can prepend '*0#' at the start of your message
16:36.57joschLarstiQ, weird
16:36.59balrog-kunjosch: no idea
16:37.11Sup3rkiddoLarstiQ: honour it?, i thought you explicitly enable it at your phone
16:37.15Sup3rkiddo*in
16:37.24joschI even get "Send: message sent as ref 142"
16:37.26balrog-kunjosch: i think the 0 at the beginning of the destination number is excessive
16:37.45balrog-kunjosch: it worked for me
16:38.07Sup3rkiddoyes..i dont think you set the ask_ds member..
16:38.13joschbalrog-kun, so you can send sms with this command
16:38.13LarstiQSup3rkiddo: I can, but you will not get a delivery report from KPN even if enabled
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16:38.24Sup3rkiddoLarstiQ: ah ok,
16:38.30balrog-kunjosch: yes, last time i tried it always worked
16:38.37josch:-/
16:38.51balrog-kunjosch: i'm using a different gsmd tree but it shouldn't matter
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16:39.04balrog-kunjosch: i think the 016... should be just 16...
16:40.01joschbalrog-kun, ah about this number at the beginning... I tried several combinations of 0160, +49160, 0049160...
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16:40.25joschbut will try it now with 160
16:40.49balrog-kun+4916... should also work, it worked for me
16:41.01josch:-/
16:41.09joschnot for me for some reason
16:41.15joschI even tried libgsmd-devel
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16:41.41balrog-kunjosch: do you see in /tmp/gsm.log a +CGMS: blah blah command being issued and returning some result?
16:41.54balrog-kunif yes, then it's not a gsmd problem
16:42.12joschbalrog-kun, you mean after sending the sms?
16:42.31balrog-kunjosch: yeah
16:42.43joschwill try it out
16:43.53Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: reading sms works without problems for you?
16:44.25joschSup3rkiddo, fgau sent me an sms but it was not received while I was in libgsmd-tool
16:44.32balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: yup, but i recently observed some misdecoded characters
16:44.56joschbalrog-kun, you can also receive sms??? don't know what I'm doing wrong...
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16:45.33Sup3rkiddojosch: you did get the event messages, right?
16:45.48joschSup3rkiddo, jepp
16:46.00Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: in the libgsmd-devel tree or the r3074 libgsmd
16:46.04joschSup3rkiddo, and I regularly check my provider with P
16:46.09balrog-kunjosch: the command i used was ss=48507328011,helloBlahBlah but i don't have the ask_ds patch applied yet i think
16:46.18Sup3rkiddojosch: hehe..
16:46.32balrog-kunyou can send me a message and i'll tell you what you wrote :)
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16:47.00balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: i'm using the gsmd from http://folks.o-hand.com/andrew/gsmd.git
16:47.47balrog-kunhmm, maybe it should go with a +, i'll check
16:48.08Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: ah ok, thought so, you use it in your code directly or just use the ligsmd-tool part alone?
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16:50.27balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: you mean with the standard gsmd and non-standard libgsmd-tool?
16:52.11Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: no not the tool, the gsmd itself and its API,
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16:52.25joschIT WORKS
16:52.40joschi did change nothing
16:52.47balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: i'm using both gsmd and libgsmd and libgsmd-tool -m shell from this tree
16:52.47flexdlies
16:52.49joschbut I just sent successfully an sms
16:52.54flexd:)
16:53.08Sup3rkiddojosch: cool so ss=<number>,"Care for a date?" just works?
16:53.27joschss=0,004916096482805,"test"
16:53.28josch# Send SMS
16:53.28joschSend: message sent as ref 144
16:53.38joschthis is exactly the same as I did before
16:53.46joschI only used another number
16:54.21Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: hmm, ok but could you enlighten me on how different andrew's gsmd git tree is?
16:54.42Sup3rkiddojosch: how about without the country code
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16:55.22balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: it's based on an older svn snapshot and the patches from OE and some that are not yet in OE but nothing important
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16:55.48Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: hmm, ok thanks so i guess i will use the current SVN head as my base
16:55.55borg_http://pastebin.ca/770696
16:55.56borg_mhhh
16:56.05borg_libgsmd, ligsmd0 and gsmd
16:56.12borg_what is needed and what isn't?
16:56.43joschSup3rkiddo, ss=0,016096482805,"test" <= worked
16:56.55balrog-kuni wouldn't be surprised if current SVN is broken, the stuff that recently got committed has not been check at all
16:57.26Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: hehe true, i do keep a close watch on the commit logs
16:58.00balrog-kunthe svn snapshot on which my tree bases is from the times when jserv and harald committed stuff
16:58.03Sup3rkiddojosch: whats with the 0 in the beginning, is it part of the number
16:58.17joschSup3rkiddo, yes
16:58.41joschSup3rkiddo, here in germany all numbers start with a 0
16:58.46balrog-kunborg_: it's all one package, you need all of the files (most of them are just symlinks)
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16:59.08balrog-kunoh, there's libgsmd0 also, i don't know what that it
16:59.11balrog-kun*is
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16:59.43Sup3rkiddolibgsmd0 must be having some shared objects
16:59.51borg_http://pastebin.ca/770832
16:59.57borg_mh
17:00.01borg_i cant install all of them
17:00.14borg_and i cant remove one of them without removing the whole phone
17:00.30Sup3rkiddojosch: hmm thanks for the hint, but could you volunteer to test the pygsmd out, i wont be having a neo for another month to play with
17:00.32borg_thats odd
17:01.00Sup3rkiddoborg_: use -force-depends and remove it one by one, but keep a keen eye on things
17:01.36joschSup3rkiddo, no problem! I'm even very interested in using pygsmd for my app
17:01.47*** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@32.150.11.62)
17:02.46fgaujosch: what app you are working on?
17:03.01joschfgau, I want to be able to send/receive sms
17:03.28Sup3rkiddojosch: lol, the thing is the neo is in a university near me..semesters start from thursday so the labs would be off limits
17:03.35joschfgau, and I want to call as stable as I can with libgsmd-tool
17:04.00Sup3rkiddo...and i gotta study for them =/
17:04.08*** join/#openmoko Gamara (i=cdibona@nat/google/x-3ad8357c15eded49)
17:04.36joschSup3rkiddo, okay somehow sending sms seems to work for me now
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17:04.46joschSup3rkiddo, just tried a third number
17:04.51*** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@32.150.11.62)
17:05.06Sup3rkiddojosch: oh cool heres the ipk and the script, http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=14&release_id=27
17:06.01Sup3rkiddojosch: oh, could tell me the revision of your libgsmd?,
17:06.17flexd10 bonus points to whoever sends me a sms with gps coordinates in it first :<
17:06.38*** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com)
17:06.45Sup3rkiddoflexd: not too tempting..bah
17:07.46cjb_iewhat do the bonus points get us? ;-)
17:07.47joschSup3rkiddo, 3293
17:07.59flexdcjb_ie: not those kinds of things cjb_ie :D
17:08.37Sup3rkiddojosch: hmm thanks
17:08.37flexderr - cjb_ie  :/
17:08.49Sup3rkiddoflexd: your neo perhaps
17:10.27fgauflexd: your cell# pls.? ;)
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17:11.12flexdSup3rkiddo: i have no neo yet :(
17:12.00Sup3rkiddo~trout flexd
17:12.01aptACTION slaps flexd around a bit with a large trout!
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17:12.22Sup3rkiddoah..feels good when you arent at the receiving end for a change
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17:15.29joschSup3rkiddo, successfully installes python-gsmd - for pygsmd-shell I only need python-core ?
17:15.34*** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@32.150.11.62)
17:15.37balrog-kunit would be very cool is a python dialer / sms app existed
17:15.43*** join/#openmoko Tm_T (i=tm_travo@kde/developer/jkekkonen)
17:15.49Sup3rkiddojosch: yeah and libpython
17:15.57joschbalrog-kun, I will remind you if I hacked this app together
17:16.16balrog-kunjosch: cool
17:16.55zeckebye
17:16.58Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: :D on my agenda as well but pygsmd has a long way to go, only voicecalls and some network stuff works as of now
17:17.21*** join/#openmoko niclone (n=nicod@blurp.yi.org)
17:17.28Sup3rkiddo..and sms if josch manages to send one :P
17:17.40Sup3rkiddoit didnt work for me when i tried on my neo
17:17.50joschSup3rkiddo, ha! I'm in pygsmd-shell
17:18.06Sup3rkiddojosch: cool see if sigq works
17:18.14Sup3rkiddojosch: '?' for the help message
17:18.35joschSup3rkiddo, already figured this - sigq works
17:18.54Sup3rkiddojosch: wow, nice, now sending sms?
17:18.59joschkk
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17:19.30Sup3rkiddoits kinda cool to have someone work with your code for the first time
17:19.33joschSup3rkiddo, I seperate the number from the message with a space?
17:19.38Sup3rkiddojosch: yes
17:19.52joschSup3rkiddo, had the same feeling when writing mokopedia
17:20.05Sup3rkiddojosch: :P
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17:27.24bedboilol
17:27.28bedboiandroid just uses java
17:27.29bedboiLOL
17:27.32bedboiAHAAHHA
17:27.33Sup3rkiddoLOL
17:27.40bedboiwhat's that bullshit?
17:27.41joschlol???
17:27.44bedboijava
17:27.46joschnot really?
17:27.46bedboibleah
17:27.50bedboiREALLY
17:27.52joschURL OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
17:27.54bedboinot kidding
17:28.00bedboihttp://code.google.com/android/kb/index.html
17:28.04bedboii'm lolling
17:28.11ScaredyCatmore
17:28.12Sup3rkiddobedboi: speaking of android in this channel is forbidden
17:28.13bedboiand they are pushing for developers
17:28.25bedboiSup3rkiddo: i'm not speaking of
17:28.33bedboii'm insulting
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17:28.40xzcvczx~smack bedboi
17:28.41aptACTION smacks bedboi upside the head.
17:28.41bedboithere is a subtle difference
17:28.55bedboiwhat the fuck
17:28.57Sup3rkiddobedboi: ok go on
17:29.04bedboii was there with my finger on F5
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17:29.06Sup3rkiddo~lart xzcvczx
17:29.06aptplops xzcvczx into a giant vat of herring
17:29.21Sup3rkiddoapt has gone soft these days
17:29.22bedboidowloaded the SDK
17:29.26bedboiJUST FUCKING .java
17:29.28bedboithat's that?
17:29.37xzcvczxthis is a new low for google
17:29.41bedboiyep
17:29.44bedboilol
17:29.44mjrHeh. Well. At least they're not even trying much for the OpenMoko niche ;)
17:29.45Sup3rkiddobedboi: and you gotta use eclipse
17:29.53GamaraIf you really want to know about it, I can tell you the story....but the topic line is pretty clear that you don't want to talk about it.
17:29.54bedboiit's ridiculous
17:30.14bedboiSup3rkiddo: no i don't want to, please.
17:30.41LarstiQcan we please be civil?
17:30.48xzcvczxlol :P
17:31.01LarstiQGamara: I have no idea where that part of the topic came from
17:31.02joschguys imagine that!! they have to sell phones powerfull enough to run all the java shit! imagine how perfect openmoko would run on them!! :-D
17:31.20SpeedEvilthere are java optimised processors
17:31.27SpeedEvileven ones which can run bytecode directly.
17:31.29LarstiQjosch: don't kid yourself, what SpeedEvil said
17:31.32GamaraLarstiQ: I figure folks here are sensitive about that kind of thing.
17:31.46bedboiSpeedEvil: so why are you talking about OPEN
17:31.48mjranyway, this only strengthens the point "if it becomes relevant, port their VM over so we have their apps"
17:31.56LarstiQGamara: it may be there was a period of excessive talk about it drowning out everything else, I don't know
17:31.59Sup3rkiddoits an OSS project, isnt it
17:32.00balrog-kunactually there's nothing surprising about it, it was sure that the UI for android was based on that opensource company that they bought some time ago which made java UIs
17:32.08bedboiif you are focusing just on a very small subset of devices
17:32.09balrog-kunalso i don't see anything wrong with it
17:32.23balrog-kunif the UI is innovative
17:32.32Sup3rkiddowe will port it =D
17:32.35xzcvczxLarstiQ: more about everyone joining commenting on how om was dead now that the googleos was coming
17:32.36bedboino please.
17:32.41bedboijava, bleah
17:32.48GamaraAlso, as the code is opened, if you like it you can just appropriate it for moko. Look at the released kernel, there is some very real goodness there for the 3g qualcomm chipset.
17:32.57bedboipow(google,-100000)
17:33.14XorAgoogle == evil
17:33.16mjrGamara, yeah
17:33.21joschwell... back to topic?
17:33.40joschSup3rkiddo, tried with libgsmd-tool and pygsmd-shell
17:33.48joschI wrote sms to two numbers
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17:33.56joschso four sms alltogether
17:33.59bedboii hope this is some fool's day joke
17:34.08bedboii agree it's somewhat early
17:34.10joschthose I wrote with libgsmd-tool did arrive
17:34.11LarstiQjosch: none of them arrived?
17:34.15LarstiQah
17:34.26joschthose I wrote with pygsmd-shell did not
17:34.27balrog-kunbedboi: why? what did you expect?
17:34.43bedboibalrog-kun: something sane.
17:35.01Sup3rkiddojosch: so somehing's wrong with pygsmd then, thanks man...owe you a beer sometime
17:35.09balrog-kunthis is very sane, and it's exactly what was speculated all around the web
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17:35.20LarstiQjosch: what was the trick to getting libgsmd-tool working for you?
17:35.27bedboibalrog-kun: i don't see any sanity
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17:35.31joschSup3rkiddo, I'm not into your code but I think you have to look into the libgsmd-tools code again to copy what they do
17:35.36TyraelHi all
17:35.48mjrIt's sane, yes, it's somewhat blind to say otherwise. Just not particularly exiting as such either.
17:35.50joschLarstiQ, what's not working?
17:35.55Tyraelis agpsgui working?
17:36.36Sup3rkiddojosch: as far as sending goes, its just a function call, must be becuase since i had used an older libgsmd
17:36.41balrog-kunare there screenshots somewhere, btw?
17:37.00balrog-kunthey have a GPU on their testing board (MSM)
17:37.09joschSup3rkiddo, and if your code works and I can use it for my app, then I owe YOU a beer :-D
17:37.17balrog-kunas well as an A/V DSP
17:37.53LarstiQjosch: I thought you mentioned sending sms but not arriving an hour and a half ago?
17:38.12joschLarstiQ, right and I still do not know why
17:38.20bedboithe emulator is sucking 84% of cpu and 150mb ram
17:38.21bedboilol
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17:38.26LarstiQjosch: mkay :)
17:38.26joschLarstiQ, there has to be a reason but I changed nothing
17:38.38bedboithey must be joking
17:38.48LarstiQbedboi: I'm not interested in this android bashing, perhaps others are, but if not, mind taking it somewhere else?
17:38.55balrog-kunbedboi: neo1973 emulator sucks more ram
17:38.58LarstiQjosch: always nice :)
17:39.05Sup3rkiddojosch: hehe, sure i would like to take part if you are doing some GUI app, actually i was thinking on the lines creating sometime like sms tool but i didnt know it existed already
17:39.21balrog-kunit needs to hold the 128 megs of Neo RAM + 64 megs of Flash + page tables + more
17:39.35joschsmstool only uses libgsmd-tool
17:40.20Sup3rkiddojosch: it does so since there wasnt any python bindings, now we have something if not nothing..lol
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17:40.48LarstiQSup3rkiddo: so, thinking of a port of smstool to pygsmd?
17:41.01joschSup3rkiddo, I see your last commit was an hour ago - I'm glad you are active in developing it
17:41.09joschLarstiQ, no, no port
17:41.18LarstiQjosch: rewrite? :)
17:41.21joschLarstiQ, smstool is too simple to copy anything
17:41.34Sup3rkiddojosch: that was just a change in comment :P
17:41.46joschLarstiQ, it's only GUI, libgsmd-tool initialization and sending
17:41.49LarstiQjosch: I do like it's ability to run on the host
17:42.06LarstiQnot that I've ever ran it that way, but still
17:42.16joschLarstiQ, this is an ability of libgsmd-tool
17:42.31Sup3rkiddoLarstiQ: not a port, sms tool uses python-process stuff, its really easy if you bring in pygsmd, lot of dependency stuff should go..
17:42.44LarstiQcool
17:42.49joschSup3rkiddo, ah, so you looked into the smstool code
17:43.48joschSup3rkiddo, right - if I can do sendsms '01636832356 test' with pygsmd-shell then a GUI for this is only 200lines of gtk code away
17:44.00Sup3rkiddohehe, yup..but sadly the next 20 days will be tight for me as i have semesters, would be wonderful if someone lends me a helping hand
17:44.11Sup3rkiddojosch: eggjactly
17:44.12LarstiQSup3rkiddo: where is your code located?
17:44.24joschLarstiQ, http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=python-openmoko
17:44.33Sup3rkiddoLarstiQ: http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/python-openmoko/
17:44.51joschLarstiQ, to get pygsmd-shell: http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=14&release_id=27
17:45.16Sup3rkiddoLarstiQ: thats an example script to use pygsmd..
17:45.54LarstiQthanks both
17:46.05flexdcan you recieve sms too?
17:46.24joschflexd, i tried with libgsmd-tool but didnt work
17:46.26Sup3rkiddowell i am not able to, although the event registers
17:46.43joschI didn't even get the event
17:47.11flexdwhen the gta02 gets released i'l get mine and start working on it :D, really want to do some python codê
17:47.22Sup3rkiddoflexd: yay
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17:47.50Sup3rkiddojosch: oh!, you didnt get message like "EVENT: incoming message..blah blah?
17:48.02joschSup3rkiddo, nope
17:48.10Sup3rkiddoi get that but, if i retreive it, get a freeze
17:48.12joschI'm just trying again now
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17:50.06Sup3rkiddojosch: did you include single quotes while doing the sendsms?
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17:51.21Sup3rkiddobecause if thats the case, the script treats everything within the quotes as a single entity, no quotes whatsover..
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17:52.15joschSup3rkiddo, pygsmd-shell> sendsms '004916096482805 test'
17:52.15joschSending the message 'test'' to '004916096482805
17:53.06flexdtry sendmsg <number> 'hi' ? :/
17:53.07Sup3rkiddojosch: hmm, but what if you exclude the single quotes
17:53.32joschyou mean sendsms 004916096482805 test ??
17:53.35bedboi<PROTECTED>
17:53.36Sup3rkiddoflexd: well yeah, but quotes arent really required
17:53.38Sup3rkiddojosch: yup
17:53.45bedbois/Goal//
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17:56.05joschSup3rkiddo, no, not working without quotes
17:56.11joschpygsmd-shell> sendsms 016096482805 test
17:56.11joschSending the message 'test' to 016096482805
17:56.34flexdare you doing this in a emu? or on a real phone?
17:56.53joschflexd, with wemu?
17:56.56joschqemu?
17:57.03flexdyeah? are you?
17:57.13joschhow?
17:57.18joschit has no gsm modem
17:57.20Sup3rkiddojosch: oh groan..
17:57.27flexdjosch: it's a emulator
17:57.37flexdit emulates stuff, i dont know, i'm asking you  ^
17:57.56joschno - how should you be able to connect to gsm without a gsm modem?
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17:58.13Sup3rkiddojosch: you could use phonesim...
17:58.24joschSup3rkiddo, whats that?
17:58.31Sup3rkiddobut only for testing though, nothing beats the real machine
17:58.37balrog-kunbut your message wouldn't reach the destination :p
17:58.50joschso its useless for testing -_-
17:59.06joschand all the problems I have right now I would blame the emulator for
17:59.06joschno
17:59.09Sup3rkiddojosch: na, you could check if AT commands are getting sent
17:59.22joschtesting can only be done on the real machine with the real problems
17:59.25Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: that blog post saved me a lot of time =D
17:59.57Sup3rkiddojosch: right, sms stuff worked with phonesim..hehe, but not on the neo...
18:00.10balrog-kunjosch: it would display a message you sent (if it isn't too buggy), and you can also simulate an incoming sms to the qemu (but this part *is* buggy) as well as cell broadcasts and phonecalls etc
18:00.16joschSup3rkiddo, just tell me the file where the log is located
18:00.17balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: cool :)
18:00.57balrog-kunSup3rkiddo: thanks for your posts also
18:01.07Sup3rkiddojosch: hmm, i bring gsmd to the foreground instead of daemonizing, anyone else know about the logs?
18:01.11joschreceiving sms still not works for me with libgsmd-tools
18:01.25Sup3rkiddobalrog-kun: thanks man...feels good..
18:01.26joschSup3rkiddo, okay will also do it this way now
18:01.39balrog-kuni do cat /tmp/gsm.log
18:01.46Sup3rkiddojosch: ah, do that that
18:01.57Sup3rkiddocat /tmp/gsm.log
18:02.00balrog-kunor tail -f
18:02.20joschbalrog-kun, is /tmp/gsm.log the same output as from real gsmd?
18:02.30joschsame as in exactly the same
18:02.31*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z5903.z.pppool.de)
18:02.33Sup3rkiddojosch: see if you get any AT+CMGS
18:02.36*** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132)
18:02.53balrog-kunjosch: it *is* the output, the init script does gsmd ... > /tmp/gsm.log i think
18:03.03joschbalrog-kun, okay
18:03.42flexdheh, android is java?
18:03.53flexdIsnt the performance on that gonna be like shit ? :/
18:04.06Sup3rkiddojosch: please check if you get AT+CMGS=<blah>.... appended to the logs..it does so here
18:04.59joschSup3rkiddo, Sun Nov 11 04:04:18 2007 <1> atcmd.c:567:atcmd_submit() submitting command `AT+CMGS=181
18:05.05balrog-kunflexd: i think it's partially a myth about java slowness, especially if they're using the sun's opensourced vm
18:05.06joschsuch output?
18:05.32flexdbalrog-kun: java's slowness is not a myth, i remember my days of using azureus, it's a nightmare
18:05.40Sup3rkiddojosch: yeah something like that
18:06.09Sup3rkiddoflexd: pr0n downloading software is a different issue :P
18:06.17flexdit's performance is like a wet sock dipped tar.
18:06.21flexddipped in*
18:06.22balrog-kunflexd: with what vm?
18:06.27flexdbalrog-kun: windows
18:06.28flexdi guess
18:06.30flexdsun something
18:06.41joschSun Nov 11 04:04:18 2007 <1> sms_cb.c:432:usock_rcv_sms() AT+CMGS=181
18:06.50joschdoes this mean I received an sms?
18:07.03balrog-kunthey may also be using a hardware aided vm btw
18:07.24flexdjosch: you should read the sending and recieving sms manually document on the wiki
18:07.35joschflexd, I already did
18:07.38balrog-kuni don't know what core their qualcomm msm board uses
18:07.45joschflexd, receiving is not working
18:08.21joschgrrr.... just repect the topic
18:08.24Sup3rkiddobye all, good night, catch ya tomorrow
18:09.10*** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl)
18:09.11edistarhi
18:09.28*** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAB306.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
18:10.24*** join/#openmoko rbs-tito (n=tito@host86-128-190-44.range86-128.btcentralplus.com)
18:10.52*** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x194.ouraynet.com)
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18:15.14balrog-kun528 MHz ARM11 Jazelle™ Java® hardware acceleration
18:16.22edistarbalrog-kun: what is that?
18:16.48LarstiQjudging by the Jazelle, the android cpu
18:16.54*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
18:16.55balrog-kunedistar: msm7200 specs
18:17.06edistarbalrog-kun: ok
18:18.05balrog-kunalthough i also heard nobody has been able to make any good use of Jazelle in the several years of ARM cpus history and that they were planning to drop it in armv6 or armv7
18:18.52swetlandjazelle is really not all that useful in the grand scheme of things.  ARM's choice to just better support features useful to runtimes in general in thumb2, etc makes a lot more sense to me
18:19.33XorAwe did a VM on an infineon chip with Java accellerator, our software VM was faster than the accellerated one
18:19.47XorAit upset infineon
18:19.49swetlandsadly jazelle only speeds up the simple (easy) instructions
18:19.57*** join/#openmoko _diego__ (n=diego@host-84-222-21-161.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
18:20.03swetlandand it locks you into their design for a lot of things
18:20.29balrog-kunyeah, java instruction set is not soooo far from a normal instruction set, so probably a well done java vm may also work fast on an plain arm or thumb2
18:21.01*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@eduroam122.ms.mff.cuni.cz)
18:21.10swetlandand of course it pretty much only helps for making an interpreter a bit faster -- soon as you're jit'ing, precompiling, or otherwise transforming the code (to get the big wins), it no longer buys you anything
18:21.30swetlands/buys you anything/buys you much/
18:21.43edistaris java used a lot in embedded devices?
18:22.18*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219)
18:22.36LarstiQedistar: more than you might think
18:22.40balrog-kuni think java games make more revenue than ringtones on mobiles :)
18:22.44*** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.96.206)
18:22.48borg_mostly in handys
18:22.58borg_i havent seen java on routers and such
18:23.11edistarborg_: thx
18:23.28*** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host59-61-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
18:23.33XorAthere is Java on SIM cards :-D
18:23.38*** join/#openmoko Ebbe (n=ebbe@users.kollegienet.dk)
18:23.40nbdossman: ping
18:23.42borg_o_O
18:23.43edistarXorA: seriously?
18:23.49balrog-kunheh, qualcomm was apparently quick to include also this in the processor specs:
18:23.54balrog-kunSupport for Linux® and other third-party operating systems
18:24.05XorAedistar: yes, slughtly reduced VM, but still java
18:24.16edistarXorA: so, SIM is a simple processor?
18:24.26nelsonpygsmd??
18:24.36XorAedistar: yes, some are 8051, some are avr32, some are even arm
18:24.47XorAmajority seem to be 8051
18:24.48edistarXorA: these small sim cards?
18:25.04nelsonI always wanted to make an embedded Linux distro for the Compaq iPAQ in which all the applications were written in Python.
18:25.06XorAedistar: yes the little GSM ones
18:25.06edistarthats really strange :P
18:25.09nelsonThe name?   pypaq, of course.
18:25.40edistarXorA: for the encryption? or what do they need a processor for?
18:25.42*** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@79.1.223.212)
18:25.51XorAedistar: modern sims can run applets
18:26.07XorAedistar: and send SMS, put menus on phone screens, setup SSL tunnels
18:26.14edistarXorA: what kind of applets? is it feasible to do that?
18:26.23XorAedistar: I worked on a web browser for SIM
18:26.34flexduhm, is there a python/gtk "form designer"?
18:26.45edistarXorA: so you wouldn't need a seperate cpu for the phone if you wanted to build an extreme low-cost model?
18:26.54joschnelson, :-D
18:27.17edistarXorA: you are completely amazing me ;)
18:27.18nelsonflexd: glade
18:27.25LarstiQflexd: boaconstructor/glade
18:27.41flexdnelson: reading about glade now
18:27.45flexdthought it was only c code :/
18:27.47nelsonflexd: it's not specific to Python, but there are frameworks that make it easy to use a .glade file in Python.
18:27.47mickeylnelson: this day will come (complete application logic written in python, all UI stuff in C)
18:28.11XorAedistar: its mainly so the operator can secure some applications and know they will work on even the cheapest handset
18:28.11mickeylnelson: if OpenMoko will survive long enough, I'm going to work on such a framework
18:28.16joschmickeyl, cool
18:28.19XorAedistar: stuff like billing
18:28.21joschI'm wainting for it
18:28.21nelsonhehe.
18:28.24edistarXorA: ok
18:28.25XorAedistar: or info services
18:28.30edistarXorA: billing is done in the sim?
18:28.42XorAedistar: it can be, I dont think anyone does yet
18:28.46nelsonmickeyl: OpenMoko might not survive, but open source on phones will.  It's too disruptive not to.
18:28.48edistarXorA: any way to hack sims? :P
18:28.56mickeylnelson: right.
18:29.01joschmickeyl, I had this idea for my linux desktop - scripting all the GUI apps in python makes live much easier
18:29.11XorAedistar: for Asia we worked on putting a electronic wallet on sim
18:29.31XorAedistar: and the SIM could actually carry out full credit card transactions on its own
18:29.43cjb_ieXorA: wow, cool
18:29.45edistarXorA: noone would suspect a sim card to be something else than a special memory card oO
18:29.53flexdnelson: such as? autoglade?
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18:30.02edistarXorA: sounds really cool
18:30.03mickeyljosch: yep. and given a proper architecture and enough horsepower, there's little reason to code app logic in a non-scripting language, but lots of reasons to do it in the scripting way
18:30.13XorAedistar: the new 3g SIMs are going to have usb connectors
18:30.23XorAedistar: and 8 gig of flash ( and increasing)
18:30.27edistarXorA: I really should learn more about it
18:30.33*** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-254-119.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:30.37LarstiQXorA: mechanically compliant?
18:30.38edistarXorA: so, they'll be able to do loads of stuff
18:30.46edistarXorA: will the new 3d sims be the same size?
18:31.10XorALarstiQ: I dont think so, only electrically, they were going to be MMC but Sandisk pointed out that violated a billion of their patents
18:31.12nelsonedistar: why would they be the same size when they're electrically incompatible?
18:31.26nelsonthat seems like a recipe for failure.
18:31.28XorAedistar: I think form factor is changing to more like microSD
18:31.38*** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.228.139)
18:31.46edistarjust asking cause I'm wondering how they can fit all that is such a small space
18:32.13XorAedistar: there is wifi in microSD now
18:32.16LarstiQXorA: doh
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18:32.23XorAedistar: Moores law still holds
18:32.39edistarXorA: one wonders.. ;)
18:32.51XorAbut I dont work on this field anymore
18:32.55LarstiQXorA: hmm, doesn't radio constrain Moore a bit?
18:33.05edistarXorA: what do you want to do then?
18:33.14XorAedistar: I work for OpenMoko :-D
18:33.23nelsonLarstiQ: only the antenna, and if you're willing to accept shorter range, you can fold it.
18:34.05edistarXorA: I mean, what field do you want to go into?
18:34.06flexdnelson: how am i supposed to turn the .glade stuff into python code? :)
18:34.38XorAedistar: I work on supporting OpenEmbedded for openmoko, as far from wierd ass specs as I can get
18:34.55nelsonflexd: use libglade.
18:34.55*** join/#openmoko WM (i=c88e3a13@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-1d1212c9fa8cc79b)
18:35.03don-oflexd: i didnt see the whole conversation but usually there is a libglade binding that loads the xml when the application starts up and builds the GUI at runtime
18:35.17flexdoh.
18:35.21edistarXorA: isn't it fun to work for openmoko? :P
18:35.33nelsonflexd: although I believe that somebody has a python code generator.  I actually think that's the better solution.
18:35.59balrog-kunyou can compile glade to C so i would expect you can also compile it to python directly
18:36.02nelsonflexd: then, instead of needing  main.py, foo.glade and libglade, you only need main.py and foo.py
18:36.22nelsonand ... you'd be insane to edit foo.py by hand.
18:37.03LarstiQhmm, the qt python bindings have a nice setup where you load .ui code at runtime, and returns a base class and derived class
18:37.23nelsonI think most people use libglade and the python bindings.  It's reasonable even if I think it would be better to produce a .py.
18:38.25ossmannbd, pong
18:38.43edistarXorA: well, best of luck and thank you for the infos, I think through openmoko I'm becoming a lot wiser ;)
18:39.35nbdossman: could you please forward me the information that atheros gave you about the ar6k timing issues?
18:39.40nbdi'd like to know more about this
18:39.53ossman*digs*
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18:40.21nbdthanks
18:40.54ossmannbd, where should I send it?
18:41.06nbdnbd <at> nbd.name
18:42.07*** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x194.ouraynet.com)
18:42.59CMnox-Hand: Because it's semi-open? :P
18:43.02don-oandroid has some exciting stuff.
18:43.05ossmannbd, you've got male
18:43.21nbdossman: thx
18:43.26nox-HandNo because it's out and just completely slammed OpenMoko down a lot
18:43.33nox-HandI am admittely intriguied by it
18:43.49*** join/#openmoko Tieku (n=Joe@cpc3-leed14-0-0-cust462.leed.cable.ntl.com)
18:43.58edistarnox-Hand: I don't think it hurt openmoko in any way, at least not if OpenMoko pushes forward a bit now
18:44.02*** join/#openmoko salty-horse (n=ori@pdpc/supporter/active/salty-horse)
18:44.25nox-HandHmn :|
18:44.34salty-horsejust noticed android is touted as "the first complete, open, and free mobile platform". :( http://code.google.com/android/
18:44.49*** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@212.2.178.35)
18:44.59Tiekusad...
18:44.59nbdossman: hmm... that doesn't seem to match my issues
18:45.12CMWe know, even though it's not completely open nor first..
18:45.23edistarthese marketing chaps should join irc
18:45.30nbdossman: with extra delay, i can talk to the card, but then it locks up after a while (usually around a second)
18:45.49CMedistar: Oh now, all we'd hear then is "leverage" and ROI and "market cap" ;)
18:45.49*** join/#openmoko abliss (n=user@216.239.45.19)
18:45.58edistar:P
18:45.59ossmannbd, I'm starting to get the impression that this is just crappy hardware
18:46.11nbdyeah, me too
18:46.12edistarCM: true again, we should have #openmoko and #openmoko-marketing
18:46.20CMHehe
18:46.27*** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAB306.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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18:51.05edistarhow many germans are working at openmoko? I got the impression that there were quite a lot..
18:51.25CMI think at least 5
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18:52.59flexdnelson: libglade is nice enough
18:53.08flexdgives me ability to change my forms
18:53.09flexdbut
18:53.10*** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.228.139)
18:53.31flexdin this tutorial about libglade it says xml.autoconnect (xml = gtk.glade.XML('filename.glade'))
18:53.40edistarthe mailinglist is discussing how hard it is to program in C/C++ for openmoko.. if everyone programs in python or so, will that run fast enough?
18:53.40flexdbut xml.autoconnect just fails saying there's no such attribute :/
18:57.44*** join/#openmoko cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132)
18:57.53Opheliadoes anyone happen to know when the second version of the Neo will be available?
18:58.12edistarOphelia: are you an optimist?
18:58.20ewonheh
18:58.26ewonwas originally Oct
18:58.28ewonnow Dec
18:58.35ewonnow mor elikely Real Soon Now(tm)
18:58.39edistarwith shipping about January
19:00.04Opheliaaha
19:00.09OpheliaI'm an optimist
19:00.51*** part/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.1.fullrate.dk)
19:01.01edistarOphelia: me too :) but it will only be useable in the urban areas of the US and in europe
19:01.16Opheliajust waiting for the second version including WLAN
19:01.24Opheliawhy that?
19:01.33edistarOphelia: it's not quadband
19:01.35Opheliausable in what way?
19:01.36CVirusWill there be a python interpreter for OpenMoko if there's not already ?
19:01.45edistarOphelia: only 900/1800/1900
19:01.53Opheliayeah, sadly so
19:01.55edistarCVirus: I think there is one already
19:02.11joschwho in this channel can help me understand gsmd log output?
19:02.12OpheliaI though it was quad-band
19:02.14CMCVirus: Python exists yes, but it's not installed by default in GTA01 for size reasons
19:02.22edistarOphelia: so if you live somewhere without coverage..
19:02.25cjb_ieOphelia: it was meant to be, but there was a misunderstanding
19:02.25CVirusI see
19:02.29Opheliaat least that was what once was said
19:02.32Opheliaaha
19:02.38Opheliawhy was that?
19:03.00*** join/#openmoko sameo (n=samuel@AAnnecy-257-1-85-61.w90-36.abo.wanadoo.fr)
19:03.09cjb_iethey're currently evaluating whether they can make it support 850/1800/1900 by changing some of the components on the board,
19:03.10edistarthey didn't notice that the board only supported triband
19:03.11borg_20:01 < edistar> Ophelia: me too :) but it will only be useable in the urban areas of the US and in europe
19:03.21borg_their is no problem with urban areas in europe
19:03.23cjb_iehence giving rise to a gta02-us and a gta02-eu
19:03.29borg_s/their/there
19:03.36edistarborg_: I didn't say so
19:03.46borg_we dont have 850mhz band in europe
19:03.49borg_oh
19:03.54borg_then i missunderstood ;)
19:03.58edistarborg_: ok :)
19:04.47*** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)
19:10.12edistarOphelia: where do you live?
19:10.37nelsonflexd: yes, libglade is nice.   About the suggested Python code, the tutorial may be out of date.  Look for a pygtk example that uses gtk.glade
19:11.28nelsonedistar: Python is fast enough.   My pygps runs on the Compaq iPAQ 3600 well enough, and it's Old Skewl ARM.
19:11.41edistarnelson: ok, thanks
19:11.44*** join/#openmoko amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir)
19:11.57edistarso I will script a few programs with glade and python ;)
19:12.25*** part/#openmoko abliss (n=user@216.239.45.19)
19:14.16flexdnelson: i found using signals_autoconnect works :)
19:14.29flexdnelson: you have a ipaq 3600 too? :D
19:14.38*** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at)
19:15.13nelsonflexd: two of them.
19:17.11*** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br)
19:17.24flexdnelson: heh cool, i just convinced my dad to give me his old one
19:17.37flexdkinda boring though, no bluetooth, no gps, no wlan :/
19:17.46flexdit's got opie on it but i havent done anything more than that
19:18.16nelsonyeah, them's problems.  CF sleeve + wifi card, or Navman sleeve with GPS + CF slot.
19:19.21flexdi was looking for a sleeve
19:19.24flexdbut i cba
19:19.36flexdim getting a neo as soon as gta02 gets released, it was just for playing anyway
19:19.49flexdit cant be used for anything reasonable anyway, it's like from the stonage
19:19.52edistarthese devices are quite boring if you compare them to the gta-02 or the nokia tablets
19:20.35nelsonyep, although not if you have a GPS sleeve.
19:20.57nelsonThat was my main GPS device until I got my N770.
19:21.21flexdhhmm
19:21.22flexdwtf
19:21.31flexdI think i broke either python, ubuntu or glade
19:21.36nelsonNow, I'll want my Neo to be my main GPS device.
19:21.42flexdwhen i close windows now it's like a suuuuuper slow animation
19:22.02nelsonIt's not like I don't have enough GPS receivers (6).
19:22.14cjb_ienelson: heh, you're about even with me
19:22.51nelsonAnd only one of them has a user interface.  The rest are just black box GPS receivers.
19:23.08edistarnelson: for me they were always to expensive.. so I waited till a phone with gps and linux came up -> neo ;) had to wait now for ages already though :(
19:23.09nelson(I count the Neo as being a black box receiver ..... for now)
19:23.32cjb_ieGPSes i've bought so far: etrex, etrex vista, holux usb thing (x2), navigps (x2), streetpilot c550
19:23.41cjb_iethree of those i've passed on to other people though
19:25.48cjb_ieaha, i see you're on #osm already - was just going to ask
19:26.49ewonthat's no moon
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19:27.40cjb_ieewon: ?
19:31.56anrpthat's a well overused cliche phrase!
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19:33.07edistarwill mono be available in openmoko? :P
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19:34.27anrponly if someone wants to bring it in
19:34.44anrpbut theres no technical reason aside from porting the clr
19:34.49anrpi think..
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19:35.14edistarhow big would it be?
19:36.20uniquejeah go mono go !!!
19:37.25buz" Google has announced a $10 million contest to spur interest in development on the Android platform"
19:37.35anrpwell i dunno, it'd be more or less comparable to the size on desktop linux
19:37.47anrpmaybe a bit bigger because ARM code is a bit less compact
19:37.54anrpbut you could also strip out tons of stuff, probably
19:38.32anrp#android is ---> that way
19:38.43edistarbuz: do you think it will help that much? I think the consortium will be in it's way and once they've finished arguing openmoko will be ready
19:38.45uniquebuz: poor that they have to promise money to have people make software for it
19:39.13edistarunique: it's typical for companies who habe a lot of money, isn't it?
19:39.59edistarI am quite surprised that the openmoko wiki still shows a pic of the neo with 2007.1 installed
19:40.09uniqueedistar: jeah, right.... but it looks a little bit like selling your soul to the devil (in the case of google)
19:45.08*** part/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125)
19:46.11buzedistar: it might
19:46.18buzat least it does get out word abuot the sdk
19:49.10edistarok
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20:00.57*** part/#openmoko [g2] (n=tom@nslu2-linux/g2)
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20:01.36benni_Hi everybody!
20:01.49edistarbenni_: hi
20:01.50*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.246)
20:02.00*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
20:02.17*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)
20:02.23benni_I just need some quick help.... ;-)
20:03.01edistaryes?
20:03.10benni_I was trying to build openmoko-qemu the very first time, but make qemu gives me a 404 error (File not found) for http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/
20:03.28benni_Is there anything wrong with the buildhost.openmoko.org-server?
20:04.13CMbenni_: Yes, it seems to have some folders missing
20:04.19benni_erm, sorry, specifically it wants http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/index.html
20:04.46benni_so usually those folders are there and I just have to try again later, when this stuff's fixed?
20:04.53ScaredyCatit wants index.html ?
20:04.57benni_jap
20:05.11ScaredyCatsiily thing
20:05.14ScaredyCatsilly
20:05.15benni_or at least it requests it
20:05.22CMHmm.. The tmp folder just popped up there
20:05.36CMI wonder if mickyl or someone is updating that whole build folder
20:06.08*** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@81-237-230-126-no83.tbcn.telia.com)
20:06.52benni_Well, the Last modified of the temp-folder says so
20:07.06benni_Any hint on how long this takes? ;-)
20:07.20edistarI have a download speed of 500B/sek at the moment (make openmoko-devel-image)
20:07.29edistarbreaking off often
20:08.20CMbenni_: Well, someone has started a build there at least..
20:08.35benni_Yes, I see, the folders are being filled
20:08.39*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)
20:08.40CMbenni_: Might take a few hours if they're building the complete openmoko feed
20:08.44benni_So I'll just wait some time
20:09.01benni_okay, thank you two!
20:09.09CMIt could be a few hours if you're unlucky
20:09.13CM:)
20:09.18mickeylbtw.
20:09.23mickeylwho had that battery scale patch for the kernel?
20:09.28mickeylnow would be a good time to add it
20:09.52benni_CM: Tomorrow will be another day... ;-)
20:09.57joschmickeyl, ScaredyCat, or SpeedEvil i think
20:10.12CMI'd say SpeedEvil in that case
20:10.32*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)
20:10.53joschI'm excited to see his patch
20:11.00joschI did some testing on my own: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/battvolt.png
20:11.07joschIt's not that unlinear
20:11.32edistarjosch: cool
20:11.50*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)
20:12.44buzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg they have some really cool stuff going on in that movie
20:15.52mickeylah, that's nice
20:16.01edistaryes.. not too bad actually
20:16.04mickeylit's linear for quite a bit
20:16.16mickeylbut then drops huge
20:16.29mickeylSpeedEvil: got a patch for me? ;)
20:16.31*** join/#openmoko sameo_ (n=samuel@AAnnecy-257-1-87-179.w90-36.abo.wanadoo.fr)
20:16.45edistarbuz: it's not very original..
20:16.52CMmickeyl: Could it have been mwester?
20:17.13buzbut for a device 7 months before release its quite nice, really
20:17.40edistarbuz: yes :( a bit too good..
20:17.52edistareven has opengl
20:18.01buzopengl es i think
20:18.09joschCM, I think mwester was the one with the gsm off patch
20:18.53edistarbuz: it's too good, will be hard for openmoko to catch up
20:18.58buzhttp://code.google.com/android/
20:19.00buzyeah
20:19.04ljpits java
20:19.08ljpwhoopdido
20:19.18CMmickeyl: Sep 13 09:01:58 <SpeedEvil> I've got a patch that's aimed at that. Accurately predicting battery life.
20:19.43mickeylthanks
20:20.11*** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007)
20:21.22edistarbuz: but raster did mention something about him having great ideas about UI, maybe in half a year openmoko will rock... ;)
20:21.48buzgreat gui wont do if android has a lot of different form factors
20:22.03buzgive me a sliding qwerty android and i'm sold ;)
20:22.27edistarbuz: openmoko will build different devices..
20:22.37buzyeah but GTA02 is one year too late, already
20:23.19buznow dont get me wrong, i'm really rooting for OM and google on my phone scares the shit out of me
20:23.41*** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.228.139)
20:27.03edistarbuz: I would like google on my phone more than WM6
20:27.22buzthat's assuming you can turn off tracking the user
20:28.07edistarbuz: yes
20:28.14buzas for wm6, they have some truly nice hardware, but the os sucks just way too badly
20:28.16edistarat least the kernel must be open
20:28.27*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)
20:28.51edistarbuz: did you hear about the t-mobile shadow? someone should mail them and tell them we could port OM to their phone and turn it into a superphone
20:29.06buzi saw a picture today
20:29.06anrpi hope they wait half a year for the software to finish ...
20:29.15buzi thought it was a pretty weird device
20:29.23edistarbuz: it looks alright
20:29.25buzgimme a vga tytn II with openmoko
20:29.40edistaror a HTC, they build good hardware
20:29.55buzyeah tytn is htc
20:29.57hrwtytn II is from htc
20:30.00edistaror a gta-02, I don't mind :)
20:30.01edistaroh, sry
20:30.05buzthey have some truly great devices, just the software sucks
20:30.19edistarwe don't have them (much) in germany, so I don't know much about them
20:30.24buzyou have
20:30.34buzthey are called vodafone something or else
20:30.36edistaroh
20:30.40edistarbranded I suppose
20:30.55joschhrm... if I phone with my neo the other person hears me with an echo - I assume this is a known problem?
20:30.56buzvodafone something-da is quite commong naming
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20:34.52edistardo you think some other hardware manufacturer will use openmoko as their OS?
20:35.22joschdefinately not yet
20:35.28joschthe future will tell
20:35.39joschatm openmoko is solely for devs
20:35.59edistarwhich makes it somehow really cool, but on the other hand it's quite worrying
20:36.18joschnot for me - I love developer systems :-D
20:36.36edistarjosch: but it is dangerous, if OM is too slow others will catch up
20:36.50joschother open platforms?
20:36.58edistare.g. adroid xD
20:37.15joschandroid is not comparable with openmoko
20:37.27joschand it's also still unfinished
20:37.40edistarjosch: it is for the non-geeks, for them open source is open source
20:37.42joschAND it uses java -_-
20:37.53uniquejosch: right, android has a lot powerful companies contributing to it, but openmoko is free
20:38.23joschso as long as it's free - nothing can destroy it
20:38.29joschnobody
20:38.29uniqueimho java su*** but c# rulez ;)
20:39.25CVirusPython FTW
20:39.34uniqueFTW ?
20:39.45joschfor the win
20:39.54edistarpython is cool
20:39.55*** join/#openmoko Tjikkun (n=tjikkun@82-204-54-115.dsl.bbeyond.nl)
20:39.58uniqueah k
20:40.12LarstiQTjikkun: heh, nice nick
20:40.12*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)
20:40.23uniqueI haven't used it before, so I can't say anything about it
20:40.35*** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com)
20:41.11edistarif loads of apps will be in python loads of developers will be interested in openmoko :) with python it's very easy to code
20:41.23CVirusexactly
20:41.37*** join/#openmoko ralle (n=ralle@p54A67818.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:41.43TjikkunLarstiQ: why?
20:41.49uniqueedistar: do you know a good python tutorial website, just to have a look at it
20:42.14TjikkunLarstiQ: ah, also dutch :)
20:42.39edistarthe official python docs are really good
20:42.57Tjikkunedistar: so is javadoc :P
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20:43.48LarstiQTjikkun: yeah, not sure if non-Dutchies get it ;)
20:43.59flexdhttp://diveintopython.org
20:44.59uniqueflexd: thanks
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20:48.32zdanekhi all
20:48.39edistarhi
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20:51.44hrwhttp://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/12/voip-headset-usb-phone-or-bt-headset/
20:52.47*** part/#openmoko Surlykke (n=Surlykke@cpe.atm2-0-1051200.0x50a574d2.hinxx1.customer.tele.dk)
20:53.13zdanekdoes anybody knows if gps data can be accessed from python scripts on neo?
20:53.56edistarzdanek: at the moment gps doesn't work yet properly, no driver
20:55.07zdanekI'm talking about some kind of using gllin
20:55.40Vegarzdanek: the GPS data will be accessible through gpsd, so look up on that
20:55.54*** join/#openmoko vanhoofp (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be)
20:56.01zdanekand when will it be available to use?
20:56.01hrw|gonezdanek: gllin exports NMEA to /tmp/nmeaNP if you run gllin
20:56.17zdanekwould it be throught dbus and is python supporting dbus?
20:56.21hrw|gonezdanek: run gllin, read file and thats all
20:56.57joschhrm... if I phone with my neo the other person hears me with an echo - I assume this is a known problem?
20:57.03edistarjosch: yes
20:57.04zdanekhrw: that's obvious but since I'm starting to learn python all isn't as clear and simple as it should be
20:57.14joschedistar, any workarounds?
20:57.40zdanekand still gllin is writing to a file and python reads it's paralely
20:58.04zdanekI didn't do that before so I don't know if it's simple in python
20:59.18edistarjosch: play around with alsa
20:59.30edistargood night to all
20:59.30zdanekanybody knows a source code to converty NMEA frames to geographical coordinates?
20:59.37zdanekgoodnight
20:59.47*** part/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl)
21:00.33uniquewill the wifi chip in the Neo1973 be able to run in mode master?
21:01.12Tjikkunzdanek: gpsbabel probably has it
21:02.55*** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes_@f049012127.adsl.alicedsl.de)
21:04.07*** join/#openmoko ossman_ (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx)
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21:08.12*** part/#openmoko ralle (n=ralle@p54A67818.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:08.26nelsonzdanek: http://pygps.org/
21:09.07nelsonzdanek: in the pygps source you'll find NMEA.py
21:10.09*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)
21:11.35nelsonzdanek: oh, and one of the services that gpsd provides is that it will parse the NMEA for you, and give you lat/lon in plain ASCII form.
21:12.13nelsonAND it will even give you dynamic updates as the NMEA data changes, so with pgsd there's basically no need to know anything about NMEA.
21:12.25nelson.... pgsd AND gpsd.  both of the.
21:12.29dcordeshey did somebody think about keyboard support for openmoko-browser2? I mean it is possible to type stuff with a normal (physical; zaurus one in my case) keyboard inside of the browser but you can't for example switch an input box with tab. I think enter doesn't work either. Since there are many machines with keyboard, and propably rising number of people wanting to use OM on them, it would be nice to add such functionality
21:12.51nelsondcordes speaks my mind.
21:13.05summatusmentisdcordes: are you running openmoko on your z?
21:13.12dcordesakita, yes
21:13.22summatusmentishrm... interesting
21:13.40summatusmentiswork well?
21:13.42joschdcordes, this is not a openmoko browser2 issue it's a openmoko-gui issue
21:13.47*** join/#openmoko gabe0x02 (n=glittman@sfserver66.mforma.com)
21:13.51dcordeswell not right now, sorry. I used to but at the moment I run angstrom. Using openmoko-browser2 though since it is the fastest one around.
21:14.09*** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F61727.versanet.de)
21:14.10dcordesI think webkit is unbeatable
21:14.15gabe0x02ah ha.... success... IRC so little I always have to figure out how to do it everytime
21:14.35*** join/#openmoko romu1us (n=romulus@S0106000625a403af.vc.shawcable.net)
21:15.01*** join/#openmoko Jiten (n=blight@a88-112-184-11.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
21:15.08summatusmentisman, I really need to figure out how to get OE back up and running
21:15.35gabe0x02so anyone have anything constructive to say about the Android SDK release?
21:15.48zdaneki'm back - I had a problem with a power in my flat
21:15.50dcordesjosch, what you mean, openmoko-gui issue? Can't you alter such settings for each application individually? I experience this not only in openmoko images but also in angstrom builds
21:15.56zdaneknelson: thank you
21:16.05zdanekbut is gpsd already running?
21:16.08nelsongabe0x02: no.
21:16.10rwhitbygabe0x02: they have developers on IRC - that's one constructive thing to say :-)
21:16.24zdanekI've read somwhere that it can use gllin output
21:16.27swetlandshock!
21:16.45nelsonzdanek: not without a driver .... gllin.
21:16.58rwhitbyswetland: well, it is a differentiator from LiMo and other previous "open" linux consortiums ... ;-)
21:17.22joschopenmoko-browser2 uses the tabbing widget - I think it has to be an openmoko/gtk issue
21:17.36josch@ dcordes
21:17.57gabe0x02do you guys think it may be possible to run apps developed for Android on OpenMoko someday?
21:18.27joschwhat does the channel title say about android?
21:18.37joschyes, with a java vm it should be possible
21:18.45XorA|gone#include "openrobot.h"
21:18.58zdaneknelson: suppose I have gllin set up and working
21:19.01rwhitbyyeah, android stuff can be discussed in #android
21:19.08rwhitbyperhaps the topic should point to that
21:19.19swetlandthe whole runtime environment should be able to run pretty easily on an arbitrary arm linux platform
21:19.24nelson!mute gabe0x02
21:19.27gabe0x02okay ... thanks
21:19.30gabe0x02booo...
21:19.40nelsondang.  It didn't work.
21:19.48nelson~mute gabe0x02
21:19.48aptACTION surgically removes gabe0x02 vocal chords and feeds them to the local pygmies
21:19.51bmk789opieopieopieopieopiekrkoreotgo3yow4yp32kvgfrpert/
21:19.55nelsonAhhhh, there we go.
21:19.57*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953ABB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:20.16*** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be)
21:20.22balrog-kunthe other way around also (openmoko on android)
21:20.52*** join/#openmoko bruce (n=bruce@S0106001217ad494a.cg.shawcable.net)
21:21.33gabe0x02both I think are intresting topics... sorry if this isn't the plcae for them
21:24.01*** join/#openmoko Fradeve87 (n=fradeve@87.18.196.123)
21:26.44rwhitbyconsidering that both openmoko and android are software platforms, rather than hardware devices, does it really make sense to talk of running one on the other?
21:27.14joschrwhitby, he only spoke about android java apps
21:27.30joschandroit itself is the whole platform with the apps on top of it
21:27.43rwhitbyjosch: ah, yes, he did.  my mistake.
21:29.16*** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@88-149-141-64.dynamic.ngi.it)
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21:34.17*** part/#openmoko thos (i=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk)
21:36.51nelsonThe OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Latest official update is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates - Android conversation goes in #android please
21:37.01*** topic/#openmoko by nelson -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Latest official update is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates - Android conversation goes in #android please
21:37.13nelsonYou needed to see that twice.
21:39.51*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-e38986c05024002a)
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21:40.23ScaredyCatI see the self certified conversation police are out agin
21:42.39*** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@177-52.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch)
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21:45.30joschIf anybody sees Sup3rkiddo around - please msg me! I have good news for him
21:46.12*** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net)
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21:49.19nelsonScaredyCat: I just edited the topic in line with what rwhitby said.
21:49.33rwhitbynelson: thx
21:50.31*** join/#openmoko DanBoodro (n=danboodr@c-76-112-116-164.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
21:50.39DanBoodroHello
21:50.55ScaredyCatneither of you get to decide what's valid conversation though nelson
21:51.21nelsonScaredyCat: when I'm dictator, you'll PAY for saying that.
21:51.37DanBoodroim an openmoko newb
21:51.40ScaredyCatthat's fine... but only when
21:51.58nelsonScaredyCat: I'm takin' names, just so's you know.
21:52.08joschnelson, ^^
21:53.26*** part/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@pD9E85F4D.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:53.42DanBoodroDoes anyone know much about the SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator?
21:54.01*** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net)
21:56.29DanBoodrook
21:57.01EbbeDanBoodro: I guess it is a no..
21:57.33EbbeDanBoodro: But what do you want to know specifically?
21:57.38nelsonfor silence to be a "no" on IRC, you have to repeat the question several times over several days at different times of the day.
21:57.51nelsonAnd three minutes of silence is *never* a "no".
21:58.05ScaredyCatDanBoodro: you might want to talk to raster when he appears
21:58.10DanBoodrook
21:58.19Ebbenelson: You're right. But it is a temporally no ;)
21:58.55DanBoodrowho is raster?
21:59.19nelsonhttp://www.rasterman.com/
21:59.22joschDanBoodro, he is THE raster who hacked the E environment
21:59.30DanBoodroseriously?
21:59.42joschYE RLY
21:59.48nelsonno, we're just yankin' yer chain.
21:59.57nelsonYES, SERIOUSLY.
22:00.06DanBoodrohaha, just wouldn't expect to see him on here
22:00.20nelson~summon raster
22:00.21aptapt takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so he gets delivered a phonelist containing raster's coordinates
22:00.50*** join/#openmoko woglinde_ (i=woglinde@e178094198.adsl.alicedsl.de)
22:01.36DanBoodroyou think he would know much about the SMedia 3362?
22:02.17nelsonspeculation is not my strong suit:  ABTG.OB2:21PM ET0.04Down 0.0020725,70254,0001,890.00$1,890.00-108.00Down $108.00Down 5.41%0.25-11,617.00Down $11,617.00Down 86.01%Chart, Message, Profile, more...
22:02.29*** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.228.139)
22:02.50abraxa__DanBoodro: What do you want to know?
22:03.00*** join/#openmoko ^leo^ (n=user@mail.mondueri.com)
22:03.00dcordeshi abraxa_
22:03.07abraxa_Ahoy
22:03.16DanBoodrojust some of the technical details of the chip
22:03.30DanBoodroand what its capable of pulling off
22:03.47abraxa_Well, I doubt he'll be allowed to tell you much as the docs are under NDA
22:03.56ScaredyCatheheh - he said 'pulling off'
22:04.02ScaredyCat</beavis>
22:04.56DanBoodrohaha ScaredyCat, but seriously, I was also looking at Nvidia's latest and greatest GoForce 6100
22:05.00joschDanBoodro, he told us about some problems with this chip and the resolution of the neo - just browse the logs
22:05.24ScaredyCatyeah some 512x512 things...
22:05.28DanBoodroi'll take a look
22:05.36joschScaredyCat, right
22:05.52DanBoodrothanks for the info, i'll keep an eye out for him
22:06.00joschwesnoth in 512x512 will not be fun :-/
22:06.03nelsonerrrr, isn't the display 640x480?
22:06.11ScaredyCatyes..
22:06.11joschnelson, this is the problem ^^
22:06.12DanBoodro480x640
22:06.17DanBoodro^_^
22:06.47nelsondepends on how you're holding it, now doesn't it?
22:06.55DanBoodroanyone have a neo?
22:06.59DanBoodrohaha indeed it does
22:07.21joschnelson, no doesn't depend on it - the chip is only capable of doing 480x640
22:07.45DanBoodro*not technically speaking*
22:07.47joschthis is why for example videos are to be rotated by software
22:08.02gabe0x02how does a phone become "supported"?  What is the minimum requirements for a phone to be even potentally supported?
22:08.14joschand if you do xrandr -o 1 only x is rotated not the real fb device in the background
22:08.25DanBoodroif you can get openmoko on your phone, its supported
22:08.25nelsongabe0x02: it's got to be an openly documented phone.
22:08.53nelsonjosch: SHHHHHHHH!  Don't let them know THAT!  That's the secret sauce!
22:09.00joschnelson, xrandr does NOT work with videos - they get renderes to the framebuffer which will not rotate
22:09.11joschnelson, oh... sry... I forgot...
22:09.21SpeedEvilnelson: no it doesn't.
22:09.37DanBoodrodoesnt it work on the treo?
22:09.43SpeedEvilnelson: it needs to be a phone with adequate drivers for the hardware under linux, and some way to install an image
22:10.14joschat least some way to install a boot manager that can then boot from anything
22:10.22nelsonSpeedEvil: yeah, but a lot of people call "adequate drivers" to be "GPL drivers"
22:10.35nelsonwhich in the end means that you're documenting your hardware ... in the software.
22:10.44joschwell... GPL drivers ARE adequate ^^
22:10.58DanBoodrohaha, i remember when i first heard about openmoko, i hacked the shit out of my razr and made it look like it had it on it
22:11.00SpeedEvilnelson: IMO rubbish - a phone with an adequate well supported set of binary drivers would work OK too.
22:11.07SpeedEvilnelson: but, ...
22:11.15nelsonjosch: yeah, unfortunately, not really.  Implementation is not specification.
22:11.33nelsonSpeedEvil: I'm not sure I disagree with you, but a bunch of other people do.
22:11.53joschbut specification is implementation if you give it a little time :-)
22:12.15DanBoodroso im guessing that no one has a neo?
22:12.15cjb_ieSpeedEvil: where 'well supported' means 'will be maintained to keep pace with kernel changes' ?
22:12.45ScaredyCatDanBoodro: loads of us have them
22:12.57cjb_iegta01 that is
22:13.03ScaredyCatsee the p1 owners list on the wiki
22:13.09abraxa_DanBoodro: There are more people with Neos here than you can shake a stick at
22:13.26joschDanBoodro, it's easier to ask who has no neo
22:13.30DanBoodrooh yea, sorry and the gta02 is coming in december?
22:13.30nelsonOW!  Stop shaking that stick at me!
22:13.43joschDanBoodro, read the topic
22:13.58SpeedEvilcjb_ie: yes - two-part drivers work well generally for that.
22:14.05nelsonthe first rule of gta02 club is .... we don't talk about gta02
22:14.10gabe0x02are there chipset limititaions?  I mean you gotta have a cross compiler that'll work for it right  
22:14.17DanBoodrohaha ok
22:14.37SpeedEvilgabe0x02: GCC will do most phone CPUs
22:14.43gabe0x02I guess if there's arlready a linix distro for it you're kinda set...
22:14.45gabe0x02yeah okay
22:14.49SpeedEvilgabe0x02: the primary problem is either docs or reverse engineering
22:14.51abraxa_nelson: Well, I guess that means you're out then because you just did...
22:15.08ScaredyCathe just did what?
22:15.10nelsonoops.
22:15.14*** join/#openmoko g-e (n=user@p54903B83.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:15.16nelsontalk about gta02.
22:15.21ScaredyCattwice
22:15.24joschhe did talkk about IT
22:15.39joschhe said the g-word!
22:15.43abraxa_lol
22:15.53joschtip: it's not google
22:16.07abraxa_gPhone ;p
22:16.39ScaredyCatthere is no spoon
22:18.00DanBoodroOkay, so heres a quick question; If someone were to rewrite OpenMoko who would try it out?
22:18.09ScaredyCateveryone
22:18.25joschyeah! me too!
22:18.48DanBoodroOkay, if someone had already rewritten OpenMoko who would try it within the next 30 minutes...?
22:18.55ScaredyCateveryone
22:19.01*** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F61727.versanet.de)
22:19.01g-elooks like android is a whole new operating system based on the linux kernel. new package manager, new display manager, new windowsmanager... why did they write anything from scratch??
22:19.22joschDanBoodro, I would!
22:19.32ScaredyCatit's just a vm g-e
22:19.45g-eScaredyCat: vm?
22:19.52joschjava virtual machine
22:19.55ScaredyCatI see no pm, nd there's no kernel packages
22:19.58*** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com)
22:19.58DanBoodroMy cousing and I had this idea of rewriting it and are reasearching a lot about OpenMoko before making any decisions.
22:20.02DanBoodrocousin*
22:20.10abraxa_DanBoodro: Just one question. Why?
22:20.24ScaredyCatDanBoodro: you now have 28 minutes
22:20.38balrog-kung-e: licensing
22:20.38joschDanBoodro, Another question. Why the heck?
22:20.44DanBoodrohaha, Just because its possible
22:20.45*** join/#openmoko eonj (n=ENJ@c-68-35-225-183.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
22:21.01joschDanBoodro, what do you count as "rewrite"
22:21.32joschif I take out all openmoko apps and libs, I can still start the phone, ssh into it and do my stuff
22:21.33DanBoodrofrom the ground up, well...I guess I wouldn't use the word "rewrite" then
22:21.37balrog-kung-e: they don't want to be "too opensource" to be acceptable for all the phone vendors
22:22.05joschDanBoodro, openmoko uses openembedded
22:22.19DanBoodro:) i know
22:22.20joschDanBoodro, what you want to do is writing another OE distribution
22:23.39gabe0x02anohter question: do you need to compile your apps individually for each supported devcie
22:23.58abraxa_DanBoodro: Personally I'd say that your efforts are better invested into helping OM becoming even better - ie. writing stuff for it, not try to replace it
22:24.02joschgabe0x02, not really but for eayh architecture
22:24.47gabe0x02how many architectures would you say existed on potential openmoko devices
22:24.56gabe0x02exist*
22:25.00DanBoodrono no no, not replacing it at all
22:25.16joschgabe0x02, as much architectures as the linux kernel supports
22:25.20ScaredyCat25 minutes remaining
22:25.28gabe0x02hmm... kay
22:25.32joschScaredyCat, I also cannot wait for the image
22:25.43DanBoodrowe are already working on a few different projects for openmoko, but keeping them to ourselves until completion
22:25.46DanBoodro:D
22:25.51gabe0x02well I'll be back... not thru with you guys yet... :) but I should do some work today... thanks guys
22:25.52joschDanBoodro, -_-
22:26.37*** part/#openmoko gabe0x02 (n=glittman@sfserver66.mforma.com)
22:26.44DanBoodrolike i said only an idea
22:26.48*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)
22:27.07g-ewill i be able to run all my normal shellscripts on openmoko?
22:27.20joschg-e, it's a normal linux
22:27.41joschg-e, I can do ash scripting on my host pc and then use this scripts on openmoko without problems
22:27.44*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net)
22:27.49joschs/ash/bash/
22:28.12DanBoodroi'll keep you guys updated on what we're doing
22:28.16*** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com)
22:28.19DanBoodroheading out for now though
22:29.08DanBoodrothanks for all the help, info, and listening to my ideas
22:29.11g-ejosch: ok. cool. can i install stuff like php-cli ?
22:29.27g-ecan i do "apt-get install php4-cli" ?
22:29.29joschyeah, you can install perl, python, bash, php...
22:29.30abraxa_Sure, DanBoodro, and have fun :)
22:29.42DanBoodrook, buhbye
22:29.46joschg-e, you can do ipkg install php4
22:29.53joschopenmoko uses ipkg
22:29.59g-eok
22:30.35g-eis it using X?
22:30.48ScaredyCatyes
22:31.11ScaredyCatwell, it's using matchbox
22:31.26joschbut you can replace matchbox with any other wm
22:31.36joschI'm using E17
22:31.42g-eso why is google doing all this android stuff? why not just use openmoko?
22:31.56joschmaybe because openmoko is too open?
22:32.06ScaredyCatyes
22:32.16dcordesg-e, market share.
22:32.17joschthat's why android is NO alternative to openmoko
22:32.24ScaredyCatbut there's no reason you can't put propriatory stuff on it
22:32.42joschScaredyCat, you can also put proprietary stuff on every linux
22:32.57g-edcordes: what do you mean?
22:33.16ScaredyCatyes, i know... but the fact that it's 'too open' isn;t a valid reason not to use it
22:33.18g-ejosch: "too open"?
22:33.32joschg-e, openmoko is 100% gpl
22:33.44joschandroid is apache license? not sure
22:34.08g-ejosch: so what would be googles problem with gpl from your point of view?
22:34.35ScaredyCatit's as open as any it's not google that have the problemlinux distro
22:34.38ScaredyCatoops
22:34.45ScaredyCatit's not google that have the problem
22:34.56ScaredyCatit's the mobile phone carriers that do
22:35.48g-ewhats google motivation to do android in the first place?
22:36.13g-eScaredyCat: whats their problem with gpl code?
22:36.28ScaredyCatthey get free marketing when people say 'hey look at my googlephone' without them actually having to make hte phone
22:36.42ScaredyCatcarriers?
22:36.51Jiteng-e: they want to be able to add their own proprietary restrictions of course.
22:36.58balrog-kung-e: it forces them to contribute back when they have write code (to limited extent ofcourse) and to open specs
22:36.58nelsonMy understanding is that they want everyone to be able to adopt Android ... even the people who want to make proprietary changes to it.
22:37.06balrog-kunthat's why they say GPL is viral
22:37.07nelsonThus, all the GPL stuff in OpenMoko is useless to Android.
22:37.09ScaredyCatcarriers don;t want you to get their source code....
22:37.13nelsonHence all the reimplementation going on.
22:37.34g-eJiten: what restrictions?
22:37.43Jitenwho knows, depends on the carrier
22:37.49balrog-kung-e: read up on gpl
22:37.51fgaug-e: you're a market researcher for a great company?
22:38.08balrog-kung-e: you didn't do your homeowrk :)
22:38.17ScaredyCatthe gpl *requires* the release of the source code.
22:38.22g-ebalrog-kun: hmm... they would only have to contribute back when they modify linux. they could put applications on top of it without opening the code of the apps.
22:38.47balrog-kung-e: yes, and android makes that especially easy for them (as the kernel under android is GPL)
22:39.11g-efgau: i research the market for fun. why do you ask?
22:39.28ScaredyCatthe neo + opemoko is still a valid platform for propriatory applications. You just can't link with or use gpl code - unless you're prepared to release you code too
22:40.20fgaug-e: only for my interest
22:40.24fgau;)
22:40.29joschlike nvidia binary does when linking with gpl kernel headers...
22:40.53g-ewhere did you guys get your neo from? i would like to try one, but i guess no store has it in germany. anyone from germany here?
22:41.01ScaredyCatkernel modules are exceptions iirc
22:41.07ScaredyCatspecifically
22:41.11bmk789_is there a bot in here?
22:41.11joschg-e, a lot are from germany
22:41.13Jiteng-e: neo isn't widely available yet.
22:41.26ScaredyCatbmk789_ yes, apt
22:41.50bmk789_ScaredyCat: what does it do?  just log?
22:41.59ScaredyCatg-e: not in the shops - www.openmoko.com
22:42.06ScaredyCatbmk789_ lots!
22:42.12ScaredyCat!ombug 799
22:42.13cdbot2* * Bug 799, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
22:42.14cdbot2* * obri(AT)chaostreff.ch: data abort while reading from SD Cards
22:42.15cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=799
22:42.20g-eScaredyCat: yeah i know. but i would like to try one with my hands.
22:42.22ScaredyCatwrong bot :/
22:42.32ScaredyCat~lart bmk789_
22:42.32aptpours hot grits down the front of bmk789_'s pants
22:42.50bmk789_ow
22:43.14ScaredyCatthere are quite a few german owners methinks
22:43.28CVirusIs it easier to build OpenMoko using Qemu or Xephyr ?
22:43.32bmk789_like do we have a bot that we could type !3g and it would display a snippet about 3g for the neo
22:43.34abraxa_g-e: Where are you located?
22:43.49Any_Keymorning all
22:43.56ScaredyCathttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners
22:43.57g-eabraxa_: germany
22:44.01joschScaredyCat, just check out #neo1973-germany
22:44.10abraxa_g-e: I know. I mean where ;p
22:44.15g-eabraxa_: hamburg :)
22:44.20abraxa_Ah okay
22:44.46Any_KeyCVirus, depends what you want to do with it
22:44.48g-eyou ordered your NEOs for fun? how much did you pay?
22:45.09joschScaredyCat, why aren't you in our german neo channel then?
22:45.18CVirusAny_Key: I want to write a python based application for the OpenMoko that will use the bluetooth hardware
22:45.19ScaredyCatI'm not german
22:45.31abraxa_ScaredyCat: oranjes in our channel?! wtf =(
22:45.43ScaredyCatI'm not Dutch either
22:45.57abraxa_Aww pooies, was so wanting to tease you
22:46.09joschScaredyCat, but you are in netherlands right now
22:46.20ScaredyCatyes, I have a house here
22:46.27joscho0
22:46.35ScaredyCatwhich I'm trying to sell...
22:46.46joschScaredyCat, you are coming quite around
22:46.48fgaug-e. moin moin
22:46.53ScaredyCatso I'm here for 2 weeks, then in uk for 2 weeks
22:46.54ScaredyCatetc
22:46.59g-efgau: tach auch
22:47.16*** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz)
22:47.27Any_KeyCVirus, well I thunk better solution for you is to build it as x86, run in Xoo & friends on the desktop
22:47.42ScaredyCatjosch: it's not much fun though
22:48.16joschScaredyCat, I quite envy you because you can travel so much
22:48.35CVirusAny_Key: this is it ? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2
22:48.37Any_KeyCVirus, dont think qemu will provide you access to working blue-tooth
22:48.59ScaredyCatjosch: you might, until you started to hate it
22:49.01*** join/#openmoko bmk789__ (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com)
22:50.12*** part/#openmoko meus (n=bjartka@kremt.pvv.ntnu.no)
22:50.50ScaredyCatdunno if you're married or not josch, but I only get to see my wife and dogs every couple of weeks
22:51.00*** join/#openmoko avihavai_ (i=avihavai@myntti.helsinki.fi)
22:51.19joschScaredyCat, well, thats a reason - I'm single and enjoy me freedom
22:51.26*** join/#openmoko party-_ (i=party@stetson.frozenhat.fi)
22:51.49Any_KeyCVirus, yes, take a look on developer guides on wiki and look in too OpenMoko RSS reader (Python/PyGtk based)
22:52.08*** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.18)
22:52.13*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net)
22:52.21CVirusAny_Key: cool .. thanks
22:52.33Any_KeyCVirus, not at all
22:52.41ScaredyCatjosch: then travel while you can :)
22:52.51*** join/#openmoko nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-50.nys.biz.rr.com)
22:53.09flexdScaredyCat: have you done python + gtk stuff before? >_>
22:53.28flexdThis is like the maximum noob question, but for some reason i cant manage to add text to TextViews :(
22:53.33*** part/#openmoko bruce (n=bruce@S0106001217ad494a.cg.shawcable.net)
22:55.07*** join/#openmoko magumbade (n=magumbad@ppp-82-135-14-222.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
22:56.18ScaredyCatno, not really a python person, although I am learning it... I just can't stand the gtk weirdness
22:56.54ScaredyCat<---- sleeps
22:57.18joschScaredyCat, g'night
22:57.24ScaredyCatnite
22:57.48magumbadehello
22:58.34magumbadeis there anybody who got the neo1973 making a phone call?
22:59.15magumbadeI already updated the latest kernel and the snapshot from today
22:59.30magumbadebut I can not get the phone registered
22:59.33magumbadeany idea?
22:59.46SpeedEvilmagumbade: where in hte world are you?
22:59.54magumbadegermany
23:00.23magumbadeit's a o2 prepaid card inside
23:01.43magumbadeI disabled also the PIN in the hope it can registrate himself
23:02.38*** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx)
23:03.16magumbadespeedevil: it's that all you can say? :-/
23:03.40SpeedEvilWell - I was going to follow up with if he was in the US, that it is possibly an 850MHz problem.
23:04.20SpeedEvilmagumbade: I'd now try 'manually using GSM' as foiund on the wiki
23:04.41SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM
23:06.03magumbadespeedevil: well :-)
23:06.42joschmagumbade, well can you connect with ssh to your phone?
23:06.43magumbadeI hoped to use another way ....the latest snapshot should ask automatically for the pin after boot
23:06.59magumbadeyes...shure I can connect
23:07.03SpeedEvilmug: I was meaning if you've never had it working, it's a good idea.
23:07.50joschmagumbade, did you try libgsmd-tool?
23:08.26cesarb(back from a loong hiatus) where can I find ljp's latest images? I forgot where they were, and am only getting the 2007-09-18 one
23:09.14joschmagumbade, ??
23:09.56cesarbnm, found it
23:10.04magumbadejosch: not yet
23:10.45joschmagumbade, I do not trust the GUI - I always use libgsmd-tools to do my phone/sms stuff
23:10.57joschmagumbade, do you know how to use it?
23:10.58magumbadeI just got end of last week my openmoko phone...this are my first steps
23:11.06joschah kk
23:11.24joschbut if you can ssh into it you can do anything
23:11.33magumbadeyes...
23:11.35joschjust fire up libgsmd-tool
23:11.55joschand type O ENTER to switch on the gsm chip
23:12.00joschthen r ENTER to register
23:12.01magumbadeI was flashing different kernels and jffs2 images with the same result
23:12.23joschand if this is done try Dxxxxxxxxx for dialing your number
23:14.02magumbadegsmd is running
23:14.11*** join/#openmoko bobesponja (n=bobespon@bas75-1-82-235-231-205.fbx.proxad.net)
23:14.16*** join/#openmoko osmosis (n=steven@63.139.86.3)
23:14.23joschmagumbade, are you into libgsmd-tools?
23:14.27magumbadeI fired up libgsmg-tool
23:14.44magumbadebut is shows me only that is made by harald welte
23:14.49joschyeah
23:14.56joschyou have to type O
23:15.00joschand hit enter
23:15.07joschthis will switch on gsm
23:15.12joschthen r etc...
23:15.18joschas I explained above
23:16.17magumbadeif the gsm daemon is not running...then I can not fired up libgsmd-tool
23:16.29magumbadeI am starting the daemon...
23:16.30joschmagumbade, thats right
23:16.41josch/etc/init.d/gsmd start
23:16.46magumbadeand I can enter libgsmd-tool but that's it
23:17.02joschmagumbade if it shows this screen:
23:17.20joschroot@fic-gta01:~$ libgsmd-tool -m shell
23:17.20joschlibgsm-tool - (C) 2006 by Harald Welte
23:17.20joschThis program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
23:17.29joschyou've done everything right
23:17.39joschare you there?
23:17.52*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132)
23:19.15magumbadeyes
23:19.27magumbadeyou saved right now my night
23:19.29magumbadethx
23:19.44*** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org)
23:19.55joschmagumbade, np!
23:20.01joschmagumbade, come back any time
23:20.09joschmagumbade, you are german?
23:20.52joschjosch: you can join #neo1973-germany as our german speaking channel
23:21.13joschmagumbade, you can join #neo1973-germany as our german speaking channel
23:21.49magumbadeyes...based in munich
23:21.58magumbadedanke
23:22.04joschmagumbade, wohoo!
23:26.57*** join/#openmoko osmosis_ (n=steven@63.139.86.3)
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23:45.19benni_good night
23:45.31CMNight :)
23:47.25joschnight
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23:58.03*** part/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes_@f049012127.adsl.alicedsl.de)
23:58.39Writchiecesarb: welcome back - assume you've heard the 850 bad news
23:59.34cesarbWritchie: yes, I heard (read) about them already
23:59.51cesarbWritchie: in fact, I already found the "community updates" wiki page

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