| 00:01.14 | xzcvczx | my leopard seed off adc |
| 00:01.22 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@libervis/athing) |
| 00:01.37 | mcscruff | eeew |
| 00:01.59 | CM | hehe |
| 00:02.28 | mcscruff | lol |
| 00:02.33 | mcscruff | ubuntu 7.10 :P |
| 00:02.47 | xzcvczx | mcscruff: yeah i know i was waiting to see mIRC |
| 00:02.57 | mcscruff | lol, thats worse |
| 00:03.12 | mcscruff | i love my xchat |
| 00:03.12 | xzcvczx | thats what i was going to say if you in fact had that |
| 00:03.18 | xzcvczx | i dont really like xchat |
| 00:03.22 | xzcvczx | irssi ftw |
| 00:03.31 | zash | yeah! |
| 00:03.43 | meus | irssi++ |
| 00:03.45 | CM | I'm to lazy to learn all the irssi tricks though.. |
| 00:04.29 | xzcvczx | 90 ish percent |
| 00:05.14 | xzcvczx | mcscruff: oh and osx is nice as a machine that all it does is stream movies from a server and play them on a 42" tv |
| 00:06.28 | xzcvczx | only problem is i dont have an apple keyboard or mouse so makes some stuff interesting to say the least |
| 00:09.07 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@78.16.49.38) |
| 00:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-68-26.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:22.36 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 00:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 00:40.25 | flexd | Hmm |
| 00:40.35 | flexd | Does anyone know how to make python bindings for something? :/ |
| 00:41.30 | bmk789__ | would it be possible to write software for the neo1973 that would let it use the accelometers and bluetooth to work as a wii controller? |
| 00:42.16 | guaqua | i think wii controller also uses infra red or some sort of visual scanning |
| 00:42.46 | balrog-kun | maybe with a usb IrDA dongle (on GTA02) |
| 00:43.12 | bmk789__ | but the accelerometers couldnt do it themselves? |
| 00:44.03 | mcscruff | bmk789__, in theory yes, you could modify the current linux drivers |
| 00:44.42 | mcscruff | im no developer tho |
| 00:44.48 | bmk789__ | thats one more addition to the wishlist |
| 00:44.56 | bmk789__ | i really need to learn some programming |
| 00:47.18 | mcscruff | thats 1 thing i would prob port |
| 00:47.24 | mcscruff | when consumer is out |
| 00:47.32 | Kragnerac | Web Apps for OpenMoko. :) |
| 00:47.33 | mcscruff | or the 360 controller |
| 00:48.03 | loufoque | can I have a neo1973 as a christmas gift? |
| 00:48.15 | mcscruff | lol |
| 00:48.32 | mcscruff | will there be any eu suppliers |
| 00:48.52 | loufoque | santa claus distributes worldwide |
| 00:48.59 | bmk789__ | mcscruff: 360 uses bluetooth? |
| 00:49.02 | mcscruff | yes |
| 00:49.12 | mcscruff | :) |
| 00:49.17 | bmk789__ | cool |
| 00:50.10 | abraxa_ | bmk789__: Just a thought... if the Neo slides out of your hands and hits a sturdy surface... well, let's just say buying a new wii remote would be cheaper ;) |
| 00:51.02 | loufoque | so you go to your friends' to play the wii |
| 00:51.11 | bmk789__ | abraxa_: thats true |
| 00:51.14 | loufoque | oh no! we don't have enough remote contols! |
| 00:51.16 | zash | OMG WIRELESS SHEEP |
| 00:51.20 | mcscruff | is java on this? |
| 00:51.21 | loufoque | and then, you get your neo out |
| 00:51.25 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 00:51.32 | loufoque | "no worries, I always carry one with me" |
| 00:51.48 | bmk789__ | lol |
| 00:52.20 | Jiten | bmk789__: the wii-remote has better accelerometers. |
| 00:53.04 | zash | how hard would it be to solder a ir-diode to the neo and have some universal remote-software |
| 00:53.34 | mcscruff | it has a usb port so im thinking easy |
| 00:54.22 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@213-202-180-209.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 00:54.25 | zash | mcscruff: i think there are ppl porting java to om |
| 00:55.01 | mcscruff | cool, will be nice to have some gmaes |
| 00:55.02 | loufoque | aren't there java vms for arm already? |
| 00:55.05 | mcscruff | *games |
| 00:55.29 | loufoque | mcscruff: slow games? |
| 00:55.44 | loufoque | remember, no OpenGL |
| 00:55.53 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 00:56.33 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:56.33 | guaqua | starcraft 2 |
| 00:57.40 | mcscruff | doom!! |
| 01:00.03 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.83.100.52) |
| 01:00.05 | zash | unreal tournament 3! |
| 01:01.30 | loufoque | well, if we had a good opengl driver, real games wouldn't be so far |
| 01:01.37 | Ghiottone | endgame: singularity |
| 01:01.38 | mcscruff | and lemonade tycoon |
| 01:02.50 | *** join/#openmoko Aztlek (n=lbernal@190.156.49.78) |
| 01:06.12 | loufoque | how powerful is the GPU? |
| 01:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 01:08.55 | abraxa_ | <oc2k1> The specifications are looking similar to the voodoo 1.... |
| 01:09.09 | abraxa_ | How credible that statement is however, I have no idea |
| 01:09.10 | mcscruff | 266MHz |
| 01:10.09 | oc2k1 | the filling rate is 50Mpixel |
| 01:10.09 | oc2k1 | that is similar to the voodoo1 |
| 01:10.09 | abraxa_ | Ah, you're around :) |
| 01:10.22 | loufoque | it's 33M according to their site |
| 01:11.28 | loufoque | 50M for the 3370 |
| 01:13.11 | oc2k1 | isn't the 3362 from the 3370 series? |
| 01:15.21 | oc2k1 | unfortunately the neo1973 has no joypad inputs.... elsewher it would be possible to play playstation like games... |
| 01:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko greentux__ (n=lemke@Z5f4c.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:16.23 | oc2k1 | but MMORGs or games like simsity shouldn't be a problem |
| 01:17.20 | Ghiottone | I want eternal lands on the neo!! |
| 01:18.07 | oc2k1 | and the accelerometers could be used for "ball in a maze" game |
| 01:18.56 | mcscruff | oc2k1, bluetooth joypad |
| 01:19.13 | oc2k1 | I hope I will get a neo insteat the greenphone I've wonn in a qt contest |
| 01:19.32 | mcscruff | ooo, tht greenphone looks quite nice |
| 01:20.03 | oc2k1 | yes but for me the neo has more advantages |
| 01:20.24 | mcscruff | have both |
| 01:21.26 | Ghiottone | what will the price of gta02 be? |
| 01:21.45 | oc2k1 | the wiki says $450 |
| 01:21.53 | Ghiottone | base ver? |
| 01:21.56 | oc2k1 | yes |
| 01:21.57 | mcscruff | eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek |
| 01:22.04 | Ghiottone | thanks |
| 01:22.10 | mcscruff | will they do it free on contract :P |
| 01:23.58 | loufoque | oc2k1: if you have a greenphone and don't want it, you can send it to me |
| 01:24.13 | oc2k1 | How will the opengl ES implementation be done? Does the IHV provide te requiered informations? |
| 01:24.33 | loufoque | oc2k1: the opengl es implementation won't be done in the near future |
| 01:25.38 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 01:25.46 | oc2k1 | nobody can do it or no informations? |
| 01:26.59 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack_ (n=j_ack@p508DAF04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 01:27.16 | balrog-kun | perhaps no time for that, i don't know |
| 01:27.43 | abraxa_ | oc2k1: Priority is rather low, unfortunately |
| 01:34.03 | oc2k1 | It is possible to get more informations about the chip? Or are they available with a NDA? |
| 01:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 01:36.12 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 01:37.59 | abraxa_ | Depends on the kind of info you want :) |
| 01:39.01 | oc2k1 | lets say the informations to write the implementation... |
| 01:39.09 | *** join/#openmoko niklauz (i=d863b241@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-d13c35231d9e30ad) |
| 01:40.38 | abraxa_ | Well, that would be NDA only, unsurprisingly |
| 01:40.48 | Ghiottone | nite guys |
| 01:41.15 | abraxa_ | Night, Ghiottone |
| 01:42.15 | oc2k1 | are there any other free informations? like size of texture momory .... |
| 01:44.35 | oc2k1 | would it be possible to use a mini SD wlan card in a greenphone? |
| 01:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
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| 01:55.12 | ljp | oc2k1: its possible, but depending on how much volt/amps it needs, it may or maynot work |
| 01:55.35 | oc2k1 | k |
| 02:06.11 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@63.118.136.226) |
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| 02:27.47 | bmk789_ | would it be worth trying to install openmoko on an ipaq? |
| 02:29.35 | balrog-kun | afaik it's been done, i don't know if it turned out "worth" :p |
| 02:30.22 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 02:30.50 | bmk789_ | would it be very difficult? i havent been able to find any guides |
| 02:32.26 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 02:36.29 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FEBF4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:36.47 | niklauz | anyone excited about the andriod sdk release on monday? |
| 02:46.47 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 02:47.37 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 02:49.54 | ferric | niklauz: not really |
| 02:50.03 | ferric | niklauz: android is prettye disppointing. |
| 02:50.25 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.246) |
| 02:52.36 | ljp | it will be intersting what the sdk is about |
| 02:55.54 | bmk789_ | glad its open source though |
| 02:56.05 | bmk789_ | may help openmoko |
| 02:56.28 | *** join/#openmoko chode (n=chode@pD9E8A35D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:00.04 | balrog-kun | bmk789_: i am excited |
| 03:00.25 | balrog-kun | bmk789_: i expect a good piece of creativity, whatever it will be there's going to be some completely new ideas |
| 03:00.37 | bmk789_ | yep |
| 03:01.30 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 03:01.35 | balrog-kun | err, i should direct that to niklauz |
| 03:02.07 | niklauz | ferric: why do you say it's dissapointing? i wasn't able to find any concrete technical data about it, only a hint that it will be apache public license |
| 03:03.13 | niklauz | hi balrog-kun: ya, i'm very optimistic of feature merging though i'm not sure if that is permitted between those two lisences |
| 03:03.26 | balrog-kun | i hear a google person on a different channel (completely not connected with computers) say it carries a big surprise and that everyone at google is excited |
| 03:04.00 | niklauz | the fabled 'tele-punch' ? |
| 03:04.24 | balrog-kun | niklauz: well, openmoko already uses lots of non-gpl code, many typical linux system libs are non-gpl, etc |
| 03:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953A06D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:04.35 | balrog-kun | also android is going to base on tons of gpl software |
| 03:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko rEdcArp_yu (n=yyu@218.18.134.65) |
| 03:04.55 | balrog-kun | the kernel if anything is gpl, google is not rewriting the whole Linux |
| 03:05.26 | niklauz | true, i think wind river (sp?) was involved, i wonder if it's based on their stack |
| 03:06.26 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 03:06.31 | balrog-kun | i don't know but the faq says somewhere that a lot of standard opensource projects are used |
| 03:06.44 | balrog-kun | it's heavily based on java too -_- |
| 03:06.59 | balrog-kun | making the ui code not really reusable, but what counts are the ideas i guess |
| 03:07.18 | niklauz | hmm.. why would that make the ui non-resuable? |
| 03:07.39 | balrog-kun | because openmoko UIs are in C |
| 03:07.53 | balrog-kun | at least the stuff that ships with openmoko |
| 03:08.40 | niklauz | thats a little over my head |
| 03:08.49 | niklauz | are you saying android's ui is java-based? |
| 03:09.08 | balrog-kun | yeah, that's the rumour |
| 03:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 03:09.48 | niklauz | i just hope it accelerates the whole sector, and that the result is as gpl'd/free as possible |
| 03:10.04 | niklauz | a nice sdk doesn't hurt either of course |
| 03:10.32 | niklauz | but i'm essentially an openmoko fanboy so my opinion may not matter |
| 03:12.25 | Linux_Galore | lol E17 ui on the OM, dam its fast though, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbqx_HdLs-k |
| 03:14.07 | ljp | ya, OM hired rasterman |
| 03:15.42 | ljp | loks like it needs to me made more phone like and less desktop like |
| 03:16.50 | balrog-kun | niklauz: yeah, me too, they say android and openmoko and qtopia have different goals but they are pretty much competition for each other |
| 03:17.17 | ljp | and finger touchable |
| 03:17.36 | balrog-kun | and openmoko and qtopia being gpl, it's quite clear that vendors will choose android if it permits them to not contribute back any code |
| 03:18.06 | balrog-kun | so you might say it's harming for the establishing of a standard GPLed phone stack |
| 03:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-168-109-184.netcologne.de) |
| 03:18.24 | balrog-kun | i'm just curious about what the new UI ideas it brings |
| 03:19.56 | ljp | qtopia is dual licensed |
| 03:22.17 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: its based on Linux so they have to contribute code back |
| 03:22.47 | Linux_Galore | well not for everything but the core kernel stuff they will have too |
| 03:23.01 | balrog-kun | Linux_Galore: well, the low level code yeah |
| 03:23.56 | balrog-kun | although, on a second thought, linux is just a unix clone, the whole stack should run on other unix clone kernels too, with little modification |
| 03:24.04 | ljp | they can have proprietary modules |
| 03:24.06 | balrog-kun | and there are plenty of commercial unix clones out there |
| 03:24.10 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: hardware support is the bug-bear for Linux not the UI stuff so Im not too fussed about the upper level stuff being contributed back |
| 03:24.48 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: they can always use BSD like apple did |
| 03:25.04 | balrog-kun | Linux_Galore: the hardware changes so quickly between mobile models that the hardware support for one model isn't really useful for anyone else |
| 03:25.31 | balrog-kun | any company that rolls out a new phone has to hire linux driver hackers anyway |
| 03:25.42 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 03:25.47 | ljp | maybe not the whole system, but lots of handheld devices have the same components |
| 03:26.38 | balrog-kun | those released in the same time period yeah, |
| 03:26.45 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: not really, mobile makers dont make the chips too, they can use a combination of them but the individual chips will still need Linux adaption |
| 03:26.49 | balrog-kun | but the components go out of use very quickly |
| 03:27.03 | balrog-kun | at least compared to desktop industry |
| 03:27.46 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: Im in the mobile electronics industry and they are more conservative than the desktop/laptop industry |
| 03:28.05 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 03:28.30 | balrog-kun | Linux_Galore: my experience so far shows otherwise |
| 03:29.01 | *** part/#openmoko Aztlek (n=lbernal@190.156.49.78) |
| 03:29.31 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: one of the products we have been selling now for 6 years has the same chipset over that period but we have updated the software and added some minor visual variations, consumers dont actually like things changing too much it means they have to think |
| 03:30.40 | balrog-kun | Linux_Galore: if it's a "series" then sure, there will be some similarity, but generally series end at some point, even the quite good ones (say the Zaurus) |
| 03:31.25 | balrog-kun | another example is the Palm T|E vs Palm T|E2 device, they look identically outside and have the same capabilities, except cpu speed |
| 03:31.48 | balrog-kun | the components inside these two are completely different, from cpu to memory to touchscreen controller to battery |
| 03:33.09 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: true but I bet they designed them to work very similarly to stop users walking away from the platform, people take devices like PDA's and mobiles personally, I know people who have purchases a iPhone loved it but then gone back to a Nokia phone because thats what they feel at home on |
| 03:34.13 | balrog-kun | well, yeah, the software was identical on both devices except the drivers, and perhaps some bufixes in the pim suite |
| 03:34.42 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 03:36.03 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: I have some great prototype devices in the lab I have collected over the years and some times I take one outside and people go "wow thats so cool when will it be released", I say never and the device was designed 5 years ago |
| 03:36.40 | Linux_Galore | people just found the new feature too over whelming and it wasnt cost effective |
| 03:37.03 | *** join/#openmoko PITABoy (n=Brice@adsl-221-110-242.rmo.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:37.18 | Linux_Galore | some day I wish the world had more geeks so devices didnt have to be so dumb |
| 03:37.21 | Linux_Galore | days* |
| 03:37.27 | PITABoy | lol |
| 03:37.35 | balrog-kun | yeah, you have to be careful to not make stuff to complicated these days |
| 03:37.40 | PITABoy | what device are you talking about the neo |
| 03:38.01 | balrog-kun | in the beginning of PDAs people had to learn anyway because these things were new, so you could more freely innovate |
| 03:38.09 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: no, I work for a electronics company now based in HK |
| 03:38.54 | PITABoy | Hong Kong? |
| 03:39.04 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: yes |
| 03:39.23 | Linux_Galore | although Im in australia right now |
| 03:39.28 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=fredsiba@p5495156D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:40.44 | Linux_Galore | goto love the internet, you can work in one country for a company in another, still have to do the bi-annual visits to HK though |
| 03:41.28 | PITABoy | what company is it |
| 03:41.32 | PITABoy | nokia |
| 03:41.35 | PITABoy | jk |
| 03:41.42 | Linux_Galore | lol, got know, its a chinese brand |
| 03:41.46 | Linux_Galore | god* |
| 03:41.52 | PITABoy | lol |
| 03:41.54 | Linux_Galore | god no* |
| 03:41.59 | Linux_Galore | ack! |
| 03:42.00 | balrog-kun | trolltech headquarters are in australia :) |
| 03:42.02 | PITABoy | what brand? |
| 03:42.18 | Linux_Galore | not trolltech and were not a Linux shop |
| 03:42.23 | PITABoy | trolltech like as in qtopia green phone |
| 03:42.27 | Linux_Galore | nor windows either |
| 03:42.43 | PITABoy | do you make phones? |
| 03:42.47 | Linux_Galore | yes |
| 03:42.54 | PITABoy | if so tell them to put linux on the damn things |
| 03:43.08 | PITABoy | and whatever you do dont put symbian on them |
| 03:43.11 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: why, we have our own in house OS |
| 03:43.20 | PITABoy | what is it called |
| 03:43.20 | ljp | TT hq is in norway. qtopia dev is in australia |
| 03:43.40 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@CPE001a70d1de84-CM0019474a8676.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:44.39 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: Im trying to keep my job out of this, Linux is a hobby to me and I dont want people asking me work questions |
| 03:44.56 | PITABoy | oh |
| 03:45.07 | oc2k1 | who is the contact person for the neo related driver stuff? Maybe I can help to write the opengl es part |
| 03:45.41 | balrog-kun | ljp: well, the human resources dept. is in oz |
| 03:45.57 | Linux_Galore | its funny I like QT over GTK |
| 03:46.03 | ljp | nope. there is an HR person here |
| 03:46.28 | oc2k1 | HR? |
| 03:46.30 | balrog-kun | ljp: hum, okay, then there must be various branches |
| 03:46.37 | Linux_Galore | I found the QT api allot nicer to use than GTK's mish-mash |
| 03:46.45 | ljp | each office has hr |
| 03:47.00 | ljp | Linux_Galore: its true :) |
| 03:47.13 | ljp | balrog-kun: cool. |
| 03:47.35 | ljp | balrog-kun: gonna take it? |
| 03:47.50 | Linux_Galore | GTK has a better license though if your doing something commercial (and dont want to pay a per seat license) |
| 03:47.51 | balrog-kun | the person's name was Andy Green |
| 03:48.05 | balrog-kun | ljp: nope, i'm already overloaded with work, and i prefer GTK personally :p |
| 03:48.26 | balrog-kun | although i must admit i like the QPE apis, compared to the gsmd design... |
| 03:48.40 | ljp | balrog-kun: Andrea |
| 03:48.47 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: QT 4.0 is very very nice |
| 03:48.57 | ljp | true that |
| 03:49.33 | Linux_Galore | its good too see though it makes the GTK people get of their rears and make GTK better |
| 03:49.45 | Linux_Galore | competition is good |
| 03:50.09 | PITABoy | what is openmoko based on qt or gtk |
| 03:50.31 | Linux_Galore | OM is GTK but QTOPIA have been ported to the NEO |
| 03:50.32 | balrog-kun | PITABoy: take a guess |
| 03:51.11 | PITABoy | well everyone seems to hate gtk so I'm going to say qt but with the awesome eyecandy it is hard to tell |
| 03:51.45 | Linux_Galore | Philips already use QTOPIA on some of their WiFi cordless (with a camera too) VoIP phones |
| 03:52.36 | Linux_Galore | no OM is GTK, always has been |
| 03:52.51 | PITABoy | cool |
| 03:52.56 | PITABoy | I like gtk better |
| 03:53.00 | PITABoy | than qt |
| 03:53.12 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: each to their own |
| 03:53.14 | ljp | why is that? |
| 03:53.44 | PITABoy | gtk to me anyway seems more lightweight on system resources and I think that it looks better |
| 03:53.57 | Linux_Galore | although JAVA in reality will be the dominant Linux mobile desktop for a long line |
| 03:54.10 | Linux_Galore | s/desktop/UI/ |
| 03:54.14 | PITABoy | ahhh I hate java |
| 03:54.20 | PITABoy | even uglier than qt |
| 03:54.50 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: go look at the new Sony/Ericsson k860i UI, same that is one sweet setup |
| 03:54.55 | Linux_Galore | its Java |
| 03:55.03 | Linux_Galore | oops k850i |
| 03:55.23 | PITABoy | that is who you work for sony ericsson |
| 03:55.27 | Linux_Galore | s/same/dam |
| 03:55.59 | Linux_Galore | no Sony/Ericsson are actually based in China mainland not HK |
| 03:56.09 | PITABoy | oh |
| 03:56.32 | Linux_Galore | they sub contract out too a company in Sth America last I heard for the parts now |
| 03:56.40 | PITABoy | personally I hate that type of menu but like you said earlier to each his own |
| 03:57.33 | oc2k1 | gn8 |
| 03:57.45 | PITABoy | i like list menus not icon menus for the most part |
| 03:57.47 | Linux_Galore | Im actually wondering how much damage Android will do too the OM phones |
| 03:57.55 | PITABoy | idk |
| 03:58.08 | PITABoy | anyone seen any screenshots of Android |
| 03:58.22 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: I would say its all paper right now |
| 03:58.45 | PITABoy | that is what i thought no images of any android stuff anywhere |
| 03:58.59 | ljp | they are releasing an sdk in the next few days |
| 03:59.09 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: HTC are making a Android based phone, that should make Microsoft cringe as HTC are a Windows shop |
| 04:00.18 | PITABoy | true but I heard just a rumor but all android stuff is rumor that google is making an add-on os for current phones not a replacement os |
| 04:00.39 | Linux_Galore | well the up side for the OM guys is that their users will have better access to Googles services |
| 04:00.55 | PITABoy | there are already press releases about sprint and google teaming up and that there will be google software updates for current phones |
| 04:01.26 | balrog-kun | HTC is not really the Windows shop, the produce all PalmOS devices too and many others |
| 04:01.35 | Linux_Galore | PITABoy: I can see a big divide in the industry over the next 5 years, the pro Google and the anti google |
| 04:01.41 | balrog-kun | they produce the parts and assemble under the names of many other companies |
| 04:02.12 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: Im talking about HTC branded products |
| 04:03.33 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: many Chinese companies sub contract for other brands (the company I work for does) |
| 04:03.47 | *** join/#openmoko eonj (n=ianj@fl-65-40-12-114.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 04:05.05 | Linux_Galore | I dragged a NEC product in one day and showed it to a marketing guy and said, what do you think of this, and he said. "looks like total crap", meanwhile the head of engineering for China was standing next too me who had designed it |
| 04:05.44 | Linux_Galore | thats a classic moment |
| 04:05.49 | PITABoy | that is funny |
| 04:05.52 | balrog-kun | hah, ouch |
| 04:05.56 | PITABoy | and you work for NEC |
| 04:05.57 | PITABoy | lol |
| 04:05.59 | Linux_Galore | no |
| 04:06.18 | Linux_Galore | the company is not a major western brand |
| 04:06.24 | PITABoy | We are just going to have to list every chineese company |
| 04:06.29 | PITABoy | oh |
| 04:06.36 | Linux_Galore | heh, thousands of them |
| 04:06.41 | PITABoy | i know |
| 04:07.42 | Linux_Galore | and the company I work for makes everything from Swiss watch parts to telephones, alarm systems and aeroplane parts |
| 04:07.58 | PITABoy | damn sounds like my company |
| 04:08.06 | PITABoy | but you said that it isnt western |
| 04:08.15 | Linux_Galore | nope, not western |
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| 04:08.35 | eonj | you work at a chinese company? |
| 04:08.39 | eonj | do you speak chinese? |
| 04:08.41 | PITABoy | well actually I am a security gaurd at a company that makes everything |
| 04:08.55 | Linux_Galore | no, I work in a division based in Australia |
| 04:09.01 | PITABoy | and no it isnt chinese but they have offices worldwide |
| 04:09.01 | Linux_Galore | heh |
| 04:09.32 | PITABoy | i still qualify for their benifits though which are awesome |
| 04:09.56 | PITABoy | such as pretty much any product at cost from dell computers to cars |
| 04:09.59 | niklauz | andriod is expected to be released under the apache public license, would this permit code sharing w/ OM? |
| 04:10.01 | eonj | i want to work in china |
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| 04:10.22 | Linux_Galore | niklauz: cant see why not, you can put apache on the NEO |
| 04:10.52 | Linux_Galore | eonj: hope you like smog |
| 04:11.16 | eonj | Linux_Galore: i do, i've stayed in tianjin before ^^ |
| 04:11.17 | Linux_Galore | and lots of people heh |
| 04:11.25 | niklauz | wow, that is a really simple straight forward way of answering that question... makes sense though, do you know if it works the other way around also? i'm wondering about the potential for feature merges between the two? |
| 04:11.28 | PITABoy | that is what i was gonna say |
| 04:11.41 | Linux_Galore | eonj: I like the food in China, so much variety |
| 04:11.52 | eonj | oh hell yeah, good food every day, and cheap |
| 04:12.48 | PITABoy | i like american food |
| 04:12.54 | PITABoy | mmmmm cheeseburgers |
| 04:13.17 | Linux_Galore | eonj: I put weight on when I was last in China (Pudong) |
| 04:13.44 | eonj | Linux_Galore: i lost it, but i was walking everywhere (student) had to eat bigmacs a couple times a week to maintain |
| 04:13.56 | eonj | like 3-4 meals a day... |
| 04:14.18 | eonj | so yeah, some1 needs to give me a job deving on OM in china ^^ |
| 04:14.22 | eonj | or taiwan would do |
| 04:14.38 | Linux_Galore | eonj: yeah, I rode a bicycle for the first time in years in China |
| 04:15.00 | Linux_Galore | I havent been to tw yet |
| 04:15.30 | Linux_Galore | wonder if its similar to HK |
| 04:15.51 | Linux_Galore | HK is all money money money |
| 04:16.02 | eonj | i dunno, i went to tw 2 years ago and it was great |
| 04:16.48 | eonj | i was in gaoxiong, in the south so it was pretty traditional |
| 04:17.25 | Linux_Galore | I loved how the OM guys had to buy a TW made motherboard in Europe because they cant buy it locally |
| 04:19.07 | Linux_Galore | it's the same in China though, you can buy the high grade western products locally in the shops even though the factory may be up the road |
| 04:19.12 | Linux_Galore | cant* |
| 04:19.40 | Linux_Galore | you can get cheap knock off though lol |
| 04:19.40 | eonj | yeh, i tried getting a powerbook fixed there... at an official and unofficial apple repair place |
| 04:19.57 | eonj | wanted to charge me 150$ for a new powercord shipped from Cali |
| 04:21.09 | Linux_Galore | eonj: yeah, but you can buy a locally made copy for US$25 |
| 04:21.28 | Linux_Galore | eonj: made in the same factory too lol |
| 04:21.34 | Linux_Galore | as the original |
| 04:21.44 | eonj | no one wanted to sell me one... =\ |
| 04:22.13 | Linux_Galore | eonj: aah, always hire a local to help out for a day when shopping |
| 04:22.14 | eonj | altho i didn't have any technical contacts/acquaintances because i was studying language |
| 04:22.46 | eonj | actually a local did try to help, she had bought a macbook too, but she wasnt as up on it as she should ahve been hehe |
| 04:23.15 | Linux_Galore | lol |
| 04:23.23 | Linux_Galore | knock off interpreters |
| 04:23.30 | eonj | lol |
| 04:24.36 | Linux_Galore | eonj: I hired a student who was studying english after some advice from one of the local contacts I was working with |
| 04:24.59 | Linux_Galore | eonj: its was good fun, my english is abysmal too |
| 04:25.11 | eonj | haha nice |
| 04:25.30 | Linux_Galore | bet the poor bugger is failing his exams |
| 04:25.33 | eonj | whats your native tongue? |
| 04:26.00 | Linux_Galore | english, Im actually from the UK but being an engineer english has always been second fiddle |
| 04:26.18 | eonj | oh i see, so very colloquial :D |
| 04:26.51 | eonj | well, i'm from florida, so i try to emphasize a southern drawl in my international communications |
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| 04:26.53 | eonj | for fun |
| 04:27.14 | Linux_Galore | eonj: yeah, "when you meet anyone you say, "strewth mate I havent seen you in donkeys years" |
| 04:27.21 | Linux_Galore | heh |
| 04:28.33 | Linux_Galore | passing on colloquial variations to the chinese is very comical |
| 04:29.15 | eonj | fo sheezy |
| 04:29.46 | Linux_Galore | eonj: yeah, they cant say the letter "P" properly |
| 04:30.21 | Linux_Galore | so one uses lots of words that begin with "p" just to have a chuckle as they try to emulate your style |
| 04:31.20 | eonj | but they have the last laugh... whenever i try to just pronounce a word in standard mandarin |
| 04:31.41 | Linux_Galore | yeah, Im hopeless when it comes to mandarin |
| 04:32.39 | Linux_Galore | few thousand characters to the basic alphabet then you have colloquial variations |
| 04:33.31 | eonj | yep.. |
| 04:33.56 | Linux_Galore | also HK has a different dialect to the mainland |
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| 04:36.27 | eonj | yeah it will take a lot for me to try cantonese |
| 04:36.36 | eonj | ive been at mandarin for 3 years and its hard enough |
| 04:36.59 | Linux_Galore | watching someone from HK order food in a restaurant in a remote village in China is funny, imagine a german tourist ordering fish and chips in wales in england, "I wund likeh some chips and flush" "what ?, we only ave fush and chups er mate" |
| 04:37.15 | eonj | hehe |
| 04:37.40 | eonj | there is a saying "i fear nothing but a cantonese trying to speak mandarin" |
| 04:37.48 | eonj | a HKer once told me :) |
| 04:38.34 | ferric | hrm |
| 04:38.52 | ferric | what the hell does any of this have to do with openmoko? |
| 04:40.06 | eonj | um, people in china will eventually use OM? |
| 04:40.08 | eonj | hehe |
| 04:40.12 | *** part/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-168-109-184.netcologne.de) |
| 04:40.35 | Linux_Galore | eonj: yeah, he was trying to show of to the ignorant westerner his mandarin skills, I was just sitting there chuckling as he went red in the face and started shouting |
| 04:40.53 | eonj | nice |
| 04:41.45 | Linux_Galore | kids were looking in the door in aw at this westerner laughing as these two shout at each other |
| 04:42.19 | Linux_Galore | in the end I just pointed at what I wanted heh |
| 04:42.32 | eonj | yeah that works best most often lol |
| 04:42.40 | eonj | body language is a helluva thing |
| 04:43.27 | Linux_Galore | yeah, I find if you have patience language isnt an issue |
| 04:44.06 | eonj | well, i gtg, coffeeshop is closing >< |
| 04:44.21 | Linux_Galore | yeah, see you later |
| 04:44.26 | eonj | cya |
| 04:45.30 | Linux_Galore | eonj: hope you learn mandarin better than me ha! |
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| 05:00.10 | Casey-^ | hello, just looking around for someone to chat with... I have a few pictures up at www.myspace.com/caseytinsley if you wanted to see. feel free to message me :) |
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| 05:01.49 | xaid | hmm, i didn't think that sort of stuff happens on irc :D |
| 05:01.50 | ewon | lol |
| 05:01.55 | ewon | camwhores on openmoko |
| 05:01.58 | ewon | we've officially made it |
| 05:02.02 | ewon | \o/ |
| 05:02.02 | xaid | lol |
| 05:05.25 | Tm_T | are we now "in" and "mainstream" when we have that kind of spam? |
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| 05:41.13 | eonj | anybody know any info on OE/OM with OLPC? |
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| 08:25.44 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 10:33.05 | torpor | anyone awake? |
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| 10:34.43 | PBeck | hoi |
| 10:35.24 | raster | oi |
| 10:36.46 | torpor | yo |
| 10:38.37 | PBeck | hey raster torpor :) |
| 10:41.00 | torpor | i'm currently moving to a root-on-SD config .. anyone here done that yet? |
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| 10:43.16 | xzcvczx | how goes it raster |
| 10:43.17 | edistar | what does the situation look like, will the gta-02 be ready in december? (the 900/1800/1900 version) |
| 10:43.36 | xzcvczx | edistar: you an optimist or a pessimist |
| 10:44.19 | raster | xzcvczx: work work work |
| 10:44.20 | raster | :) |
| 10:44.32 | edistar | xzcvczx: optimist ;) |
| 10:44.50 | xzcvczx | edistar: then maybe |
| 10:44.58 | xzcvczx | raster: om is not work :P |
| 10:44.59 | edistar | xzcvczx: just wondering if I should save money so I could buy it in january |
| 10:45.11 | raster | xzcvczx: it is for me |
| 10:45.12 | raster | :) |
| 10:45.23 | xzcvczx | raster: its not work if you enjoy it |
| 10:45.26 | raster | edistar: personally - i would. |
| 10:45.33 | raster | but i kind of can avoid that now :) |
| 10:45.38 | edistar | raster: ok, thx for the info |
| 10:45.45 | xzcvczx | ~smack raster |
| 10:45.46 | apt | ACTION smacks raster upside the head. |
| 10:46.12 | raster | xzcvczx: well the stuff i'm doing is not on my list of thgnis i want to do |
| 10:46.20 | raster | but it needs doing because others have wanted to do it |
| 10:46.23 | raster | thus |
| 10:46.24 | raster | its work |
| 10:46.45 | raster | i WANT to make openmoko fully happy lucky fun time bling bling |
| 10:46.48 | raster | sexy |
| 10:46.49 | raster | fast |
| 10:46.59 | edistar | raster: what are you working on at the moment? |
| 10:47.02 | raster | with really novel and easy to use controls |
| 10:47.07 | raster | edistar: an internal project |
| 10:47.11 | edistar | raster: ok |
| 10:47.15 | xzcvczx | my ex is like that and it really wasnt that great :P |
| 10:47.17 | raster | its internal and non-discolosed until we release |
| 10:47.17 | cb23 | hmm, who's working on the v8 for the next neo version? |
| 10:48.04 | edistar | raster: can't you work on a media player like canola for maemo, do you know it? |
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| 10:50.01 | raster | edistar: no as its not in the product plan. |
| 10:50.25 | edistar | raster: ok, canola is not OSS anyway, but something similar would be cool |
| 10:50.36 | edistar | I suppose you have to focus on more important things.. |
| 10:50.43 | cb22 | raster: anything cool in the product plan that you can tell us about? :) |
| 10:51.14 | raster | edistar: actually i think canola is oss |
| 10:51.15 | raster | :) |
| 10:51.28 | raster | cb22: nup. nothing i can tell you until its out. |
| 10:51.54 | edistar | raster:then I |
| 10:52.04 | edistar | raster: then it has changed.. |
| 10:52.44 | edistar | raster: the website says it's not OSS yet |
| 10:52.49 | raster | hmmm |
| 10:52.54 | raster | it is intended to be |
| 10:52.58 | raster | once they are done |
| 10:52.59 | raster | i am sure |
| 10:53.09 | edistar | yes |
| 10:53.33 | edistar | then someone could port it to openmoko, shouldn't be impossible |
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| 11:00.28 | raster | that could be done |
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| 11:10.58 | torpor | raster: with you on the bling. please lets work out a nice scene lib that parses SVG and produces bling. |
| 11:11.32 | raster | svg is not the best way to go for bling |
| 11:11.33 | raster | imho |
| 11:11.41 | raster | rendering svg is expensive |
| 11:11.42 | raster | and slow |
| 11:11.50 | raster | you just handicap your bling abilities |
| 11:11.51 | torpor | but svg is easy to create, raster. |
| 11:12.00 | raster | not to mention PARSING the xml, the now added javascript |
| 11:12.02 | raster | etc. etc. |
| 11:12.09 | raster | irrelevant |
| 11:12.10 | torpor | put svg on one end of the factory, and make it fast through whatever scene lib makes sense. |
| 11:12.32 | raster | if its easy to build a go-kart from a lawnmower engine and a shopping cart |
| 11:12.38 | raster | doest make it a F1 sports car |
| 11:13.14 | torpor | my idea: use svg for all interface design and description (node names) and then parse it through some sort of interface compiler that builds a streamlined, fast (bitmap-based?) media scene lib .. blit it however you want to blit it, but let the designers and coders interface with the whole thing using SVG. |
| 11:13.45 | Stephmw | it depends on who's authoring your bling. Developers are notorious for _not_ being the best graphic/ui designers |
| 11:13.47 | CM | It's difficult to get vector graphics to scale nicely |
| 11:13.51 | torpor | i've been using cairo+svg on gp2x and now neo .. its not *that* bad, to be honest, if you do a bit of behind-the-scenes prep work. |
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| 11:14.09 | Stephmw | and graphic/ui designers are unable to design using code... |
| 11:14.16 | torpor | Stephmw: svg is not code. |
| 11:14.27 | Stephmw | torpor: shush, I'm backing svg here |
| 11:14.29 | torpor | svg is a container format. inkscape is a wonderful way to build a GUI and use it .. |
| 11:14.49 | Stephmw | torpor: svg has good authoring tools... not as good as flash mind you |
| 11:15.18 | torpor | in fact i'd go so far as to say that working with inkscape, saving the svg, loading up the test app, and having it instantly usable is a very high order goal, aesthetic/performance issues be damned. the performance issue is worth attacking though. |
| 11:15.49 | raster | it allows now ay for it to scale properly |
| 11:15.57 | edistar | torpor: that way you'd be inspired to work a lot more on design |
| 11:16.04 | raster | it can only scale linearly |
| 11:16.05 | torpor | i know you are biased towards newer-horizon tech, raster, but there is some value to stepping up the use of pre-existing tools to solve interface problems. |
| 11:16.13 | raster | uyou cant maintain an N pixel "toolbar" for example |
| 11:16.24 | raster | or force scaling to retain aspect ratios |
| 11:16.25 | torpor | "N pixel toolbar" whats that? |
| 11:16.30 | raster | use pixel-precise texture fills |
| 11:16.30 | raster | etc. |
| 11:16.31 | Stephmw | why does it have to be one-size-fits all? |
| 11:16.41 | Stephmw | create the svg to size, end of issue |
| 11:16.51 | raster | because i already have stuff that does this |
| 11:16.52 | raster | its done |
| 11:16.53 | raster | finished |
| 11:16.54 | raster | works |
| 11:16.55 | raster | fast |
| 11:16.56 | torpor | you can pass the svg through whatever grinder you want, and get the rendered results ready to go. |
| 11:17.22 | raster | everyone runs around as if svg is some silver bullet for all things |
| 11:17.23 | raster | its not |
| 11:17.28 | torpor | raster: how do you design the interface? gimp? photoshop? pixeleditor? |
| 11:17.34 | raster | its a nice source format when doing work |
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| 11:17.39 | raster | i do a lot of work in inkscape |
| 11:17.47 | torpor | so you export to bitmap from inkscape? |
| 11:17.52 | raster | i often port back and forth from inkscape to gimp |
| 11:17.55 | raster | and back |
| 11:17.59 | raster | depending what i am doing |
| 11:18.04 | raster | in the end its used to produce bitmaps |
| 11:18.21 | raster | that are then pieced together in another layout system that handles all the other nitty bits |
| 11:18.36 | torpor | i have been doing a lot of this sort of thing lately: taking a low-quality picture of some nice artwork i see somewhere, converting it to vectors, rendering those vectors in an app dynamically. its very nice. |
| 11:19.09 | raster | i've been doing this kind of stuff for many years :) |
| 11:19.16 | raster | vectors are not the ultimate silver bullet |
| 11:19.20 | torpor | draw a picture of your apps gui on paper, scan it in, convert to vectors, name the objects well, render the DOM .. |
| 11:19.25 | raster | you go down that path and you will pay a nice cost for it |
| 11:19.37 | torpor | raster: nobody in here doubts your skills. we know who you are. |
| 11:19.53 | torpor | i'm down that path, and the thing is: it works just fine. its not as bad as you're making it out to be. |
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| 11:20.09 | torpor | and the benefit is that you can go from sketch->working interface very quickly. |
| 11:20.31 | torpor | but obviously its not intereting to you, so its going to be interesting to me to see what you end up doing instead .. |
| 11:21.17 | raster | swvg - i think - is a great format for artists to exchange vector source images and data |
| 11:21.21 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone know how easy it is to get nethack on the neo, just slap a recipe to bitbake and build it..will this work? |
| 11:21.23 | torpor | and the point i'd like to make is that svg is a good GUI source format. compile to bitmap and blit away as you see fit, or lets make an interim scene-lib that handles the vector-display well enough to where it doesn't matter .. |
| 11:21.25 | raster | its a bad thing to design gui's in |
| 11:21.36 | raster | glade files are much closer to what you'd want |
| 11:21.45 | torpor | glade? |
| 11:21.47 | torpor | no thanks. |
| 11:22.11 | torpor | not al GUI's need buttons and fields .. |
| 11:22.51 | torpor | in fact i'd go so far as to say that standard WIMP based GUI objects are utterly boring and becoming irrelevant in this multitouch day and age .. |
| 11:23.12 | raster | no |
| 11:23.21 | raster | you need a way to container and lay out |
| 11:23.22 | raster | and pack |
| 11:23.27 | raster | not just place things at coord x,y |
| 11:23.44 | raster | you need to say "put a horizontla box here, then pack item x, y and z in from the left" |
| 11:23.55 | raster | you need a way to say "here's a scrollable region that contains Y" |
| 11:23.57 | Stephmw | so why shouldn't you hybridise this? |
| 11:24.08 | raster | you need a way to define certain elements to resize and others to stay a fixed size |
| 11:24.12 | raster | or resize differently |
| 11:24.18 | raster | Stephmw: i already have |
| 11:25.27 | torpor | raster: why is this *needed*, this packing and smart placement? isn't that something the designer should just do herself? |
| 11:25.43 | raster | no |
| 11:25.54 | ScaredyCat | that's gtk talk.... |
| 11:25.58 | torpor | yeah |
| 11:26.01 | raster | because then when you go from qvga ro vga things change a lot |
| 11:26.09 | raster | go from landscape to portrait - again |
| 11:26.10 | ScaredyCat | I've never understood why you'd want to limit people like that |
| 11:26.19 | torpor | ScaredyCat: how so? |
| 11:26.21 | raster | when you make other toolbars and status bars appear and disappear |
| 11:26.32 | raster | so the "window" may stretch or shrink by 30 or 40 pixels |
| 11:26.42 | raster | when your code adds and removes elements dyanmically |
| 11:26.43 | raster | ... |
| 11:26.47 | torpor | and why isn't a vectored interface appropriate for this problem? |
| 11:26.49 | Stephmw | raster: I've worked with a system that coped with this just fine |
| 11:26.56 | ScaredyCat | you've buit gtk apps torpor... |
| 11:26.59 | ScaredyCat | built |
| 11:27.02 | Stephmw | raster: *but* it's one of those things we can talk about... *sigh* |
| 11:27.07 | Stephmw | *can't* |
| 11:27.10 | torpor | sure. |
| 11:27.25 | torpor | raster: you surely lead the pack in ter |
| 11:27.28 | ScaredyCat | so you know about the packing of boxes and shit like that.. |
| 11:27.33 | raster | Stephmw: for very limited values of "this' it works. |
| 11:27.41 | ScaredyCat | rather than x,y |
| 11:27.43 | torpor | yeah, but i don't like that, to be honest ScaredyCat .. i don't want to have to think about that. |
| 11:27.50 | ScaredyCat | which makes more sense to me... |
| 11:28.02 | ScaredyCat | yeah, I'm agreeing with you.. |
| 11:28.04 | Stephmw | raster: it was certainly not a runtime-flexible system. |
| 11:28.23 | ScaredyCat | x,y is obvious, packing is painful |
| 11:28.31 | raster | then why bring up inkscape as a gui designing program |
| 11:28.34 | raster | it simply cant do it |
| 11:28.44 | raster | pakcing is painful |
| 11:28.53 | raster | but its a necessity to make anything but trivial ui's |
| 11:29.28 | torpor | i think the GUI elements offered by, for example, glade, are to user interfaces today as curses is to interfaces in the 90's. |
| 11:29.45 | torpor | which is to say, their value is overstated. |
| 11:30.14 | ScaredyCat | not on a text console :) |
| 11:30.29 | torpor | sure, but a fully graphics-oriented device doesn't need to have so much square. |
| 11:30.49 | torpor | forget sliders to change a value, give me a picture of the thing i'm changing, and move it around the screen accordingly. |
| 11:31.07 | torpor | anyone remember the paradigm shift that kais power tools interfaces provided in the mid-90's? |
| 11:31.23 | torpor | even todays gui's are far too word-oriented. |
| 11:32.09 | torpor | "The filter is typical of the KPT 6 collection as a whole: at times the interface is inspired and offers the ability to create beautiful reddening sunsets simply by interactively dragging the sun toward the horizon, producing realistic sunsets and moonscapes." |
| 11:32.13 | edistar | aren't there specs for how to design guis in openmoko yet? |
| 11:32.21 | torpor | edistar: the spec is: use gtk. |
| 11:32.31 | edistar | torpor: not very usefull |
| 11:33.10 | edistar | s/usefull/useful |
| 11:33.28 | torpor | nope |
| 11:33.30 | torpor | i agree. |
| 11:34.12 | edistar | but then, how modern do you want to design the gui, if you make it similar to pcs people will understand better maybe |
| 11:34.46 | torpor | edistar: i dunno about that. look at the world of software synthesizers (where i dwell) for example. there are very few common-GUI element in this realm. |
| 11:35.38 | edistar | thats true again...but often there are sliders |
| 11:35.59 | torpor | sliders and knobs are the *most* unintuitive thing for synthesis. |
| 11:36.22 | flexd | hmm |
| 11:36.29 | flexd | i wanna port a n64 emulator to oe :< |
| 11:36.39 | flexd | om* |
| 11:37.08 | edistar | flexd: as long as it's an emulator, whats the problem? |
| 11:37.19 | flexd | no problems |
| 11:37.20 | flexd | yet |
| 11:37.22 | CM | flexd: I first thought c64. ;) |
| 11:37.29 | flexd | except me not having a phone ofcourse :p |
| 11:37.44 | flexd | but that problem will be solved soon i hope :) |
| 11:37.53 | edistar | flexd: I hope so too |
| 11:38.03 | raster | edistar: hell- we dont even know what we want internally |
| 11:38.14 | edistar | raster: yes, please decide soon |
| 11:38.14 | raster | so how are we going to give you specs on how to design a gui/ |
| 11:38.15 | raster | :) |
| 11:38.19 | raster | not going to happen |
| 11:38.24 | edistar | okey |
| 11:38.25 | flexd | but im gonna try to learn more gtk for now. |
| 11:38.26 | edistar | but you can |
| 11:38.33 | raster | unless our marketing and business guys deside to chaneg their current course |
| 11:38.36 | raster | you will not see anything |
| 11:38.52 | edistar | but you can't expect a lot of chaps to program if they don't have enough information |
| 11:39.08 | raster | nothing i can do |
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| 11:39.14 | raster | it's out of my hands |
| 11:39.19 | edistar | ok |
| 11:39.22 | raster | i dont have time to even start on that |
| 11:39.28 | CM | If a commonly known api is used, it's quick for new developers to get started anyway |
| 11:39.31 | raster | i have a project to do that has nothing to do with any of this stuff |
| 11:39.39 | raster | because marketing has determined that to be our product direction |
| 11:40.00 | torpor | what is that project raster? a blingy toy thingy? |
| 11:40.11 | edistar | torpor: internal, secret ;) |
| 11:40.16 | doc|home | automatic pr0n downloads |
| 11:40.17 | raster | cant say anything |
| 11:40.21 | raster | its internal until released |
| 11:40.32 | torpor | is it going to be pretty, though? |
| 11:40.53 | raster | i'd love NOTHING more than to help drive OM's ui into lands of wonder and exctement |
| 11:41.01 | torpor | me too |
| 11:41.05 | raster | nothing better than to define nice boundaries of apps or "applets" |
| 11:41.07 | raster | what they shoudl do |
| 11:41.09 | torpor | thats why i'm doing it. |
| 11:41.12 | raster | and how they should work/interact |
| 11:41.28 | raster | work on tonnes of toolkits and libs to make making sexy uis' easy |
| 11:41.38 | raster | pre-packaging all the really nice things into easily usable chunks |
| 11:41.40 | raster | but |
| 11:41.50 | raster | any plans i have for that hve to be on hold |
| 11:41.55 | raster | until this project is done |
| 11:42.01 | edistar | I thought that Sean was a coder and would have a stong influence on the marketing and project direction |
| 11:42.06 | doc|home | this project we won't know about :/ |
| 11:42.10 | raster | and that wont be until a few months into next year |
| 11:42.25 | ScaredyCat | so basically, that employed you not for the neo but for something else? |
| 11:42.32 | ScaredyCat | s/that/they/ |
| 11:43.36 | doc|home | slightly off-topic but it has gadget factorness so maybe some will be interested. Played with an eeepc today. Wasn't bad. Keyboard's just big enough for touch typing and the screens usable, but more filling out of the bezel would be nicer. Fast machine to use, has both gtk and qt. Couldn't see a way to pull up a term though. |
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| 11:44.10 | edistar | doc|home: is it possible to install debian on it or some other distro? |
| 11:44.20 | CM | doc|home: Ah, nice. I've wondered why they have such a small screen on it though, a v2 of it would be nice :) |
| 11:44.44 | doc|home | edistar: it's xandros, which is debian based afaik, but you should be able to install any distro if you can get it to boot from usb. I didn't get to look *that* closely :) |
| 11:44.57 | edistar | ok:) |
| 11:45.19 | doc|home | CM: yeah, I'm on a toss up between getting it or getting a gta02 (in north america so 850mhzness may be a problem). I was definitely tempted though. |
| 11:45.33 | raster | ScaredyCat: its a projetc for the neo |
| 11:45.43 | doc|home | v2 will be a bit late, so will have to decide :) |
| 11:45.44 | ScaredyCat | ah ok... |
| 11:46.01 | edistar | I was considering either eeePC or N810 or gta-02, but the neo won :P (up to now) |
| 11:46.16 | ScaredyCat | it would have been pretty crap if it wasn't raster |
| 11:46.37 | ScaredyCat | get an N800, reduced price now :) |
| 11:47.01 | edistar | ScaredyCat: I have a 770, I would buy the 810 cause of gps and hardware keyboard |
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| 11:47.15 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: they're only wifi devices, no use for them otherwise, and they're still overpriced |
| 11:47.40 | ScaredyCat | I got a 770 for 75 ... |
| 11:47.56 | edistar | ScaredyCat: I didn't, it was quite expensive... |
| 11:48.03 | ScaredyCat | n800 is about 149 now |
| 11:48.17 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: oohh |
| 11:48.24 | ScaredyCat | doc|home: only if you buy when they're just released |
| 11:48.37 | doc|home | that's a whole lot more tempting, i thought they were about $350 |
| 11:48.38 | ScaredyCat | you have to temper your inner geek.. |
| 11:48.59 | doc|home | 770 or 800? :) |
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| 11:49.19 | edistar | 770 is very good, and much more stable, cause of the metall case |
| 11:49.53 | doc|home | so, how long before the gta02? |
| 11:50.09 | doc|home | (no need to answer) |
| 11:50.14 | guaqua | 149 what? pounds? |
| 11:50.29 | doc|home | oh, pounds? then yeah, that's about $350 |
| 11:50.36 | ScaredyCat | 770 is good enough for me.... I use it to interface slimserver |
| 11:50.53 | edistar | ScaredyCat: hacker edition OS 2007 is very good |
| 11:52.39 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 11:52.51 | ScaredyCat | I met somone like that once.... |
| 11:52.51 | doc|home | n770 for $307 - fail |
| 11:53.03 | ScaredyCat | although, he didn't own a tv either |
| 11:53.12 | doc|home | n800 for 266 |
| 11:53.13 | edistar | ScaredyCat: I don't either |
| 11:53.14 | ScaredyCat | doc|home: wtf! |
| 11:53.25 | doc|home | still more than I'd like to pay really, seeing as it's just a wifi device |
| 11:54.14 | ScaredyCat | for a change you're the ones getting ripped off... |
| 11:54.15 | edistar | its a great device for war driving! ;) |
| 11:55.09 | ScaredyCat | Nokia 770 Internet Tablet PC = available from $259.99 |
| 11:55.24 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:55.27 | ScaredyCat | errm |
| 11:55.35 | doc|home | yeah :) |
| 11:55.46 | edistar | the 770 is so much cooler ;) |
| 11:56.03 | ScaredyCat | silver is a crappy colour |
| 11:56.14 | ScaredyCat | 770 black == nice |
| 11:56.17 | doc|home | is it aluminium or silver paint |
| 11:56.17 | doc|home | ? |
| 11:56.27 | edistar | alu |
| 11:56.33 | doc|home | that's ncie |
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| 11:58.26 | edistar | but the gta-02 as so much more potential than a nokia tablet |
| 11:58.39 | doc|home | definitely |
| 11:58.42 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but you can't buy one now |
| 11:58.49 | doc|home | and unless you live in north america |
| 11:58.56 | edistar | ScaredyCat: maybe two, three month |
| 11:59.05 | edistar | and live in europe ;) |
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| 12:00.00 | doc|home | but yeah, I'd prefer the gta02 |
| 12:00.09 | ScaredyCat | yeah, there'll be so many more available now that the usa folk don;t like the lack of 850 |
| 12:00.11 | ScaredyCat | :D |
| 12:00.29 | doc|home | I'm getting one, mostly in urban areas anyway so it makes no difference. |
| 12:00.30 | ScaredyCat | 770 has a bigger screen |
| 12:00.37 | doc|home | and higher res |
| 12:00.41 | doc|home | damn you |
| 12:00.52 | doc|home | I'd just ruled it out until you said that :( |
| 12:00.57 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 12:01.06 | ScaredyCat | seriously, it's a sweet device... |
| 12:01.07 | edistar | but no gsm, I don't understand why nokia doesn't add gsm to their tablets |
| 12:01.09 | doc|home | I bet it has working power management too :) |
| 12:01.13 | doc|home | edistar: yeah |
| 12:01.16 | doc|home | seems odd |
| 12:01.21 | ScaredyCat | and it'll talk bt to your neo |
| 12:01.33 | edistar | doc|home: about 1 - 1.5 weeks standby |
| 12:01.33 | guaqua | nokia will, once they have everything else figured out :) |
| 12:01.45 | doc|home | edistar: on which? |
| 12:01.48 | ScaredyCat | android ? |
| 12:01.50 | ScaredyCat | :D |
| 12:01.57 | guaqua | i think they just don't want to take the kind of risk with a new platform |
| 12:02.04 | edistar | guaqua: they'l let openmoko do the work and then just take the gsm bit and port it ;) |
| 12:02.18 | ScaredyCat | ... might be a long wait... |
| 12:02.24 | guaqua | and they're pretty symbian about everything |
| 12:02.27 | doc|home | damn you all, now I want an n800 :( |
| 12:02.31 | torpor | me too |
| 12:02.35 | guaqua | go for n810 |
| 12:02.42 | guaqua | n800 is clumsy |
| 12:02.44 | edistar | doc|home: n810 is so much cooler, hardware keyboard |
| 12:03.14 | doc|home | it is, but $480? fuck that |
| 12:03.14 | ScaredyCat | no, go for the 800 + new neo |
| 12:03.20 | doc|home | yep, better option |
| 12:03.30 | doc|home | I can flog it on craigslist when/if I get a neo |
| 12:03.33 | ScaredyCat | or a 770 from ebay |
| 12:03.36 | edistar | I have spots on my screen where the most used keys on the onboard keyboard are, cause the stylus scratches.. |
| 12:03.37 | doc|home | the n810 is nicer though |
| 12:03.42 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: hmmm |
| 12:04.08 | ScaredyCat | http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=nokia+770 |
| 12:04.18 | ScaredyCat | even with shipping to usa == cheap |
| 12:05.24 | doc|home | ah, now I see why the 770 is more, it has a higher res screen than the 800 |
| 12:05.47 | doc|home | er, wait, no |
| 12:05.49 | doc|home | wth? |
| 12:05.58 | edistar | doc|home: sure? |
| 12:06.02 | doc|home | no :( |
| 12:06.06 | edistar | how can it be higher res? |
| 12:06.10 | doc|home | I must have misread something somewhere |
| 12:06.13 | edistar | ok |
| 12:06.13 | doc|home | it's 4am |
| 12:06.21 | edistar | its 1 pm here |
| 12:06.34 | doc|home | heh |
| 12:06.39 | doc|home | ebay ones are worryingly cheap |
| 12:06.50 | edistar | hehe |
| 12:07.13 | guaqua | the screens are pretty scratched, i'd think |
| 12:07.41 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 12:07.56 | edistar | oh, I thought the ebay ones were new.. |
| 12:08.12 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@78.52.216.212) |
| 12:08.13 | edistar | I wouldn't buy a second-hand tablet, screen would be ruined I quess |
| 12:08.58 | doc|home | is the only differnce between the n770 and n800 the camera? |
| 12:09.08 | doc|home | (and design, but I prefer the 770's) |
| 12:09.32 | doc|home | hmmm, slightly more memory and faster cpu oo |
| 12:09.34 | doc|home | *too |
| 12:09.40 | edistar | doc|home: no, cpu is arm11 with 400mhz in the n800 |
| 12:09.41 | doc|home | wonder if I could run gentoo on it ;) |
| 12:09.46 | edistar | 770 has 266mhz |
| 12:09.50 | ScaredyCat | like I say doc|home, mine cost 75 so those prices aren't bad... and mine was new |
| 12:10.00 | doc|home | 330 MHz TI OMAP 2420 according to wikipedia |
| 12:10.02 | edistar | doc|home: no, you wouldn't manage ;) |
| 12:10.03 | doc|home | (n800) |
| 12:10.06 | doc|home | heh |
| 12:10.22 | edistar | doc|home: oh, I always thought 400.. |
| 12:10.52 | doc|home | all I need now is someone with ebay / paypal :) |
| 12:11.33 | doc|home | anyone got any idea what these generally go for? |
| 12:11.47 | doc|home | http://cgi.ebay.ca/Nokia-N800-Internet-Tablet-w-Extra-Battery-and-Charger_W0QQitemZ280171264578QQihZ018QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting |
| 12:11.50 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 12:13.43 | ScaredyCat | $325 is too much |
| 12:14.09 | Linux_Galore_ | doc|home: since word of the N810 got out about US$220-280 |
| 12:14.10 | edistar | yes |
| 12:14.13 | doc|home | no, not the buy it now price |
| 12:14.37 | doc|home | Linux_Galore_: doable :) |
| 12:14.51 | doc|home | at the lower end |
| 12:15.07 | doc|home | can get a buy now 770 for 150 |
| 12:15.23 | Linux_Galore_ | doc|home: wait for the N810 to hit ebay and you should be able to get one under $200 |
| 12:15.41 | doc|home | no |
| 12:16.33 | Linux_Galore_ | doc|home: Ive learnt to be patient, I will often wait 6 months for a products pirce to drop especially if its rather good |
| 12:16.44 | Linux_Galore_ | price* |
| 12:17.00 | Linux_Galore_ | doc|home: should get a eee pc |
| 12:17.22 | *** join/#openmoko chode (n=chode@pD9E896BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:17.42 | Linux_Galore_ | doc|home: Im waiting for a cheap Sony VAIO UX portable computer to slap Linux on |
| 12:18.03 | guaqua | i'm also waiting for the eee |
| 12:18.09 | Linux_Galore_ | makes the N series by Nokia look like toys |
| 12:18.27 | ScaredyCat | sony will never be cheap :( |
| 12:18.52 | Linux_Galore_ | ScaredyCat: Sony stuff drops very quickly after 2 years |
| 12:19.05 | guaqua | even if sony could make vaios affordably enough to sell them at 200 bucks, they wouldn't sell them under 2000 bucks :) |
| 12:19.14 | ScaredyCat | dunno, I've been watching their umpc's for a while now... |
| 12:19.38 | Linux_Galore_ | ScaredyCat: Ive seen UX's going for less than US$500 |
| 12:19.59 | ScaredyCat | !!! |
| 12:20.02 | ScaredyCat | wtf |
| 12:20.09 | Linux_Galore_ | ebay isnt the best place either for a cheap Sony VAIO UX |
| 12:20.17 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:20.17 | ScaredyCat | where, gimmie a link, quick! |
| 12:20.53 | Linux_Galore_ | ScaredyCat: look for auction sites, google will help you filter them |
| 12:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:21.15 | Linux_Galore_ | also some student sites have cheap UX's show up now and again |
| 12:22.21 | Linux_Galore_ | I saw a US-380 sell here in Australia in the tradingpost.com recently for AU$680 |
| 12:22.31 | Linux_Galore_ | UX-380 sorry |
| 12:23.52 | Linux_Galore_ | 1GB ram 30GB hardisk 1.33Ghz Core Solo, GMA-950 etc |
| 12:24.44 | Linux_Galore_ | Im waiting for the eee to come out then all the other UMPC's will look very excessive |
| 12:25.18 | Linux_Galore_ | even the N810 is is about US$500 |
| 12:25.20 | doc|home | Linux_Galore_: that's how this conversation started, I mentioned I was playing with an eee pc today :) |
| 12:26.06 | guaqua | i'm soo jealous :/ |
| 12:26.11 | guerby | btw, does bluetooth+GPRS works in the latest neo GTA01 images? I'd like to pair it with my N800 :) |
| 12:26.20 | ScaredyCat | why does the black one cost more ? |
| 12:26.23 | Linux_Galore_ | doc|home: yeah, I saw a picture recently of a shelf with 4 units on it each one a different colour, white.blue.pink.black |
| 12:26.30 | Linux_Galore_ | @ eee |
| 12:26.33 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42_ (n=pipomolo@ALille-152-1-15-96.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:26.34 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: because people will pay more :/ |
| 12:26.41 | Linux_Galore_ | people are idiots |
| 12:26.48 | doc|home | Linux_Galore_: yeah, they had two today, both whte though |
| 12:26.50 | doc|home | Linux_Galore_: yep |
| 12:26.58 | cb22 | hmm, i want a eee now |
| 12:27.08 | doc|home | I want one when they have a bigger screen |
| 12:27.18 | doc|home | but by then, I'll have a neo, so won't want one |
| 12:27.41 | Linux_Galore_ | well second 1/4 2008 there will be a second variant of the eee released with a larger screen but the same case |
| 12:27.53 | doc|home | and a gta03 announced? ;) |
| 12:28.01 | cb22 | hmm, this is rather interesting... eee or neo :/ |
| 12:28.10 | doc|home | cb22: exactly :) |
| 12:28.10 | raster | no |
| 12:28.15 | doc|home | awww |
| 12:28.16 | edistar_ | I got an old laptop which is perfect, a bit big but otherwise, cheaper than a eeepc |
| 12:28.18 | raster | no gta-03 |
| 12:28.24 | cb22 | i mean at 425$ the price is nearly the same |
| 12:28.28 | cb22 | i want both! |
| 12:28.39 | edistar_ | cb22: who doesn't ;) |
| 12:28.41 | doc|home | I was really hoping the hxd (or whatever it was called) was going to be another phone :/ |
| 12:28.53 | Linux_Galore_ | both the gta02 and the eee are too big a compromise for me |
| 12:28.55 | doc|home | raster: can you say when there might be announcements of other products? |
| 12:28.58 | doc|home | or is it known? |
| 12:29.10 | raster | right now we have a gta-01 that is on sale |
| 12:29.15 | raster | the gta-02 is the next thing planned |
| 12:29.20 | raster | and will be out sometime |
| 12:29.28 | ScaredyCat | ...soon ? |
| 12:29.29 | raster | dates to be confirmed |
| 12:29.32 | doc|home | hehe |
| 12:29.32 | edistar_ | I talked to a friend a few days ago and we decided we'd be happy it we had a macbook, an eeepc, a nokia tablet and a neo1973 ;) that would satisfied all needs ;) |
| 12:29.34 | ScaredyCat | gah! |
| 12:29.36 | raster | but we are shooting for december |
| 12:29.43 | Linux_Galore_ | people laughed when I said Jan 2008 for the GTA-02 |
| 12:29.48 | doc|home | edistar_: and a massive bag |
| 12:30.01 | ScaredyCat | man bag |
| 12:30.06 | edistar_ | doc|home: don't have to take everything with me always.. altough it would be tempting ;) |
| 12:30.16 | doc|home | december sucks for me. i'm in limboland with my visa so can't order one until january :( |
| 12:30.18 | cb22 | so can i actually buy a eee yet? |
| 12:30.28 | doc|home | cb22: yep |
| 12:30.36 | ScaredyCat | raster: it needs to be beginning of December or March 08 |
| 12:30.38 | edistar_ | cb22: I think so, yes, it's even available in germany now |
| 12:30.42 | doc|home | although nz might be more difficult |
| 12:30.47 | ScaredyCat | december 07 |
| 12:30.58 | doc|home | oh, wait, south africa, no idea then |
| 12:31.05 | cb22 | bah, why does this choice have to arrise :/ |
| 12:31.06 | Linux_Galore_ | Im getting a COWON A3 and a Sony VAIO UX , do everything I need, I get mobiles from the company for free |
| 12:31.14 | doc|home | sony = evil |
| 12:31.14 | cb22 | doc|home: nah, i could get it from whereever, got people traviling overseas |
| 12:31.15 | edistar_ | cb22: what choice exactly? |
| 12:31.23 | cb22 | between a neo and an eee... |
| 12:31.30 | raster | ScaredyCat: why? |
| 12:31.33 | IfChinsCouldKill | I get coffee at my company for free |
| 12:31.56 | doc|home | I get ... erm... t-shirts :/ |
| 12:31.57 | ScaredyCat | well, for December 07, christmas... and march 08, recovery from christmas |
| 12:32.01 | doc|home | heh |
| 12:32.21 | Linux_Galore_ | ScaredyCat: like my new black N95-8G Im testing |
| 12:32.29 | raster | ScaredyCat: if we were able to ship jan15 |
| 12:32.29 | Linux_Galore_ | muawahahaha |
| 12:32.34 | raster | i see no reason why we'd wait until march |
| 12:32.39 | ScaredyCat | we got some free t-shirts - Taiwanese XL - too small for any of us :( |
| 12:32.51 | edistar_ | hehe |
| 12:32.54 | guaqua | :D |
| 12:33.00 | raster | as those that are not living paycheque to paycheque can buy anytime |
| 12:33.15 | ScaredyCat | I'm not living paycheck to paycheck... |
| 12:33.22 | raster | then why would it mater? |
| 12:33.26 | raster | if you want an item |
| 12:33.28 | ScaredyCat | but I'm not buying shit for myself at christmas |
| 12:33.28 | raster | and want it asap |
| 12:33.34 | Linux_Galore_ | the company has this stupid contract with a local telco and we get a new executive model mobile every 12 months |
| 12:33.34 | raster | then buy it when its available |
| 12:33.40 | doc|home | raster: what about this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 ? |
| 12:33.42 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host59-61-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:33.57 | edistar_ | doc|home: that's a dash.net device |
| 12:33.59 | edistar_ | ;) |
| 12:34.05 | edistar_ | www.dash.net |
| 12:34.12 | raster | doc|home: thaqt device isnt specifically ours |
| 12:34.15 | doc|home | not fic? |
| 12:34.23 | ScaredyCat | Linux_Galore_: not looked at n95 indetail - any good? |
| 12:34.25 | raster | its for dash |
| 12:34.27 | raster | a customer |
| 12:34.30 | Linux_Galore_ | Ive got to buy a new mobile for the wife, she wants a Moto V8 |
| 12:34.31 | doc|home | ah |
| 12:34.35 | doc|home | fic are the oem |
| 12:34.38 | raster | thus i ignore it in the world of neo phones |
| 12:34.42 | doc|home | right |
| 12:35.04 | raster | its an orthogonal product |
| 12:35.11 | Linux_Galore_ | ScaredyCat: its very heavy (huge battery) bit too much bling for me |
| 12:35.13 | raster | for dash |
| 12:35.15 | raster | not for us |
| 12:35.19 | edistar_ | also very interesting, dash! |
| 12:35.31 | guaqua | running openmoko? |
| 12:35.40 | ScaredyCat | running linux |
| 12:35.45 | edistar_ | guaqua: yes, modified I think |
| 12:35.58 | doc|home | right, you've all kept me up too late. night |
| 12:36.10 | edistar_ | doc|home: night |
| 12:36.18 | Linux_Galore_ | I love the OM project, I just hate the phones lol |
| 12:36.25 | ScaredyCat | so we buy an hdx8, grab the navigation app, runit on a neo |
| 12:36.35 | edistar_ | Linux_Galore_: don't like the design? |
| 12:36.41 | doc|home | Linux_Galore_: same sorta :) |
| 12:36.41 | Linux_Galore_ | edistar_: hate it |
| 12:36.44 | doc|home | me too |
| 12:36.47 | doc|home | fugly :/ |
| 12:36.56 | doc|home | not a deal breaker, but still |
| 12:36.59 | ScaredyCat | fugly is the new cool ;) |
| 12:37.01 | edistar_ | I like it, luckily, but I'm planning to build my own case |
| 12:37.03 | doc|home | it's no jesus phone |
| 12:37.14 | doc|home | (design wise) |
| 12:37.18 | ScaredyCat | jesus can suck my cock |
| 12:37.23 | raster | Linux_Galore_: what if we came out with a much sexier design some time in the future - same software stack (but evolving to be nicer) |
| 12:37.38 | ScaredyCat | it's not a regular phone for regular folks.. |
| 12:37.41 | Linux_Galore_ | not exactly a marketing tool for Linux, hai look my mobile phone can do all these things and win a fugly phone of the year award |
| 12:37.49 | raster | (then again not everyone likes the same design - tis a very personal taste thing) |
| 12:37.51 | Sup3rkiddo | ScaredyCat: warning to keep the channel clean...you damn pussy :P |
| 12:37.52 | ScaredyCat | if you want that, get a standrd off the shelf one |
| 12:37.56 | torpor | openmoko synthesizer, anyone? |
| 12:38.30 | doc|home | raster: I think that'll be necessary to make it mainstream phone (which must be fic's plan. right?) |
| 12:38.37 | ScaredyCat | Sup3rkiddo: bleh! he's not even real |
| 12:38.42 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: Im happy to pay extra for a Linux phone but I want to to at least look decent next to a Nokia or a LG unit |
| 12:38.46 | raster | doc|home: we'll see |
| 12:38.48 | Linux_Galore_ | it to* |
| 12:38.53 | raster | but the current design isnt the be all and end all |
| 12:39.06 | ScaredyCat | that road vapourware one looks ok... |
| 12:39.07 | raster | for now its not bad for DEVELOPING apps for |
| 12:39.11 | ScaredyCat | shame youy can't buy it |
| 12:39.15 | doc|home | yep, I'll be buying one |
| 12:39.16 | raster | in the hope u will find a sexier case and cleaner innards later |
| 12:39.23 | doc|home | right |
| 12:39.24 | Sup3rkiddo | mmm...sexy |
| 12:39.35 | doc|home | it's v1, most of us know that |
| 12:39.44 | raster | cool |
| 12:39.46 | raster | keep faith |
| 12:39.51 | Sup3rkiddo | amen |
| 12:39.51 | raster | i too belive its ugly as sin |
| 12:40.05 | ScaredyCat | i think we have some faith in the hardware, the s/w is the worring bit |
| 12:40.05 | Linux_Galore_ | freedom can often be ugly |
| 12:40.07 | raster | but it DOES run linux |
| 12:40.09 | raster | and its hackable |
| 12:40.22 | doc|home | I've got a great looking phone,but the software sucks so I want to ditch it |
| 12:40.25 | raster | and i fully intend to try and get out of the project hole i have been sucked into |
| 12:40.33 | doc|home | I've yet to have a phone which I've liked using |
| 12:40.42 | raster | and get to making moko phones that will blow the panties off everything around you |
| 12:40.44 | meus | doc|home: agreed. they all suck. |
| 12:40.52 | ScaredyCat | 6310i - was perfect phone for me... |
| 12:41.01 | Linux_Galore_ | same here, Ive got this all dancing all prancing N95-8G and I dont really like it |
| 12:41.21 | meus | Linux_Galore_: well the hardware on that is nice. but the software.. bleh. |
| 12:41.32 | ScaredyCat | I actually wish the neo had a few more buttons |
| 12:41.42 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: I loved the visual design of that phone, |
| 12:41.44 | Linux_Galore_ | meus: hardware sux too the battery dies within a few hours |
| 12:41.51 | meus | Linux_Galore_: oh :/ |
| 12:41.54 | Linux_Galore_ | if you play videos |
| 12:42.07 | Linux_Galore_ | or do heavy internet use |
| 12:42.11 | meus | a ex-coworker had the original n95, and that lasted for a while iirc |
| 12:42.18 | meus | ah |
| 12:42.26 | Linux_Galore_ | depends how you use it Im finding |
| 12:42.32 | mjr | Linux_Galore_, that's not very unexpected then |
| 12:42.41 | Linux_Galore_ | Ive learnt to turn everything off to save power |
| 12:43.07 | meus | well what is the use of lots of fancy features if they have to be turned off all the time :) |
| 12:43.14 | IfChinsCouldKill | so you use the neo like powermanagement |
| 12:43.42 | raster | Linux_Galore_: that is the case with almost every phone/device of that kind |
| 12:43.43 | Linux_Galore_ | what really pisses me of to be honest is the phone doesnt give me the freedom of a nice Linux laptop etc |
| 12:44.00 | raster | they will only last 3-8hrs or so on battery if the cpu etc. are all running full ball doing stuff |
| 12:44.04 | raster | and especialyl the screen is on etc., |
| 12:44.09 | raster | the backlight eats power |
| 12:44.29 | raster | the only reason phones get multi-day standby times si because they literally suspend most of the phone when sitting around |
| 12:44.34 | guaqua | i'm guessing power management is the area with most to improve |
| 12:44.34 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: have to put a decent battery in the thing then and maybe look at better backlighting |
| 12:44.45 | raster | only the most minimal parts are powered up to recieve signals from the phone network and thats it |
| 12:44.59 | raster | Linux_Galore_: decent battery means making it big and fat |
| 12:45.02 | raster | also adding lots of cost |
| 12:45.12 | raster | every one of these thigns costs money |
| 12:45.12 | raster | a lot |
| 12:45.13 | torpor | i want iphonelinux |
| 12:45.15 | raster | and that adds to price |
| 12:45.25 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: aaah, to an Apple optical illusion and make it thing and wide |
| 12:45.31 | Linux_Galore_ | thin* |
| 12:45.33 | raster | the bateryt we have in the get-02 is actually quite hefty |
| 12:45.52 | cb22 | 40% bigger IIRC |
| 12:45.53 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: aaah, do an Apple optical illusion and make it thin and wide |
| 12:45.58 | raster | Linux_Galore_: and in return for that work happle has done to thin it down |
| 12:46.01 | raster | you cant change the battery |
| 12:46.11 | raster | as they basically cut every bit of covering and case out they could |
| 12:46.15 | raster | you pay a price |
| 12:46.24 | raster | also apple have invested a small fortune in the iphone design |
| 12:46.38 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: yeah, I agree, making the iPhone thin removed the ability to change the battery |
| 12:46.41 | raster | openmoko isnt *THAT flush with cash to do such a thing |
| 12:46.51 | raster | unless of course you guys go buy millions of our gta-01's and 02's |
| 12:46.59 | raster | then we will have the cash to make some amazing stuff |
| 12:46.59 | raster | :) |
| 12:47.13 | meus | :D |
| 12:47.16 | raster | our main problem is software |
| 12:47.23 | raster | the fact we cant reliably suspend currently |
| 12:47.27 | raster | and come back and work 100% |
| 12:47.31 | raster | and go back and forth |
| 12:47.35 | IfChinsCouldKill | or this http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2002/01/49717 |
| 12:47.35 | raster | suspend is the trick |
| 12:47.43 | cb22 | raster: have you seen a gta02bv4 yet? |
| 12:47.53 | raster | cb22: yes |
| 12:47.56 | raster | i have one |
| 12:48.00 | cb22 | lucky basterd |
| 12:48.03 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: not really, if you looks at the hardware in the iPhone closely they didnt do that much, the cpu and display stuff was right out of the iPOD and the display is an off the shelf product from Germany |
| 12:48.11 | cb22 | how does it seem speed wise compared to the 01? |
| 12:48.15 | raster | cb22: i work for openmoko - so it shouldnt be surprising :) |
| 12:48.43 | raster | Linux_Galore_: you need to look a lot more closely. |
| 12:48.59 | raster | cb22: hard for me to say. i'd love one that actually boots properly |
| 12:49.02 | raster | :) |
| 12:49.07 | cb22 | haha |
| 12:49.13 | raster | gfx is entirely different |
| 12:49.18 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: the fabrication though I will admit looks expensive |
| 12:49.19 | raster | its on a smedia gfx chip |
| 12:49.20 | raster | accelerated |
| 12:49.22 | torpor | how so? |
| 12:49.25 | torpor | faster graphics? |
| 12:49.26 | raster | much slower system -> video mem bus |
| 12:49.33 | raster | but the gfx chip can accel a lot of ops |
| 12:49.39 | raster | the driver is nowehere near done |
| 12:49.44 | raster | so its way too early to tell |
| 12:50.04 | raster | torpor: we use an smedia 3362 chip |
| 12:50.12 | CoreDump | raster: I'm curious, is the casing of GTA02 identical to GTA01? Is the casing of GTA02 even done yet? |
| 12:50.20 | raster | it has limitatiosn though that make it incredibly hard to make it very useful for lots of things |
| 12:50.27 | raster | CoreDump: 100% identical |
| 12:50.30 | cb22 | raster: howcome? |
| 12:50.33 | CoreDump | raster: thanks |
| 12:50.45 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: make the GTA03 expandable so people can buy extra add on's like a VGA camera module etc |
| 12:50.46 | raster | cb22: eg. for 3d the max 3d rendering buffer is 511x511 |
| 12:50.55 | raster | we cant even do 640x480 gl screens |
| 12:51.02 | raster | it falls short of 640 |
| 12:51.03 | mjr | raster, well that's somewhat nasty then |
| 12:51.03 | cb22 | ouch |
| 12:51.19 | raster | thats why i chose to skip opengl as an important thing to do |
| 12:51.27 | mjr | *nod* |
| 12:51.27 | raster | its limitatiosn begin to show the more you read the specs |
| 12:51.36 | zash | Linux_Galore_: they say there will be no gta03 |
| 12:51.36 | raster | for us i think its a waste of resources to sink it into GL accel |
| 12:51.41 | raster | with limitatiosn like that |
| 12:51.57 | raster | it has 2d accel too |
| 12:52.03 | raster | a blitter, filler, line drawer etc. |
| 12:52.08 | raster | it can even alpha blend and scale images |
| 12:52.10 | raster | BUT |
| 12:52.12 | raster | more limits |
| 12:52.23 | raster | the hw can only blit/blend/fill 640x640 at max |
| 12:52.24 | raster | sure |
| 12:52.26 | cb22 | but if you could run the screen in 320 mode, wouldnt it be useful for games and the like? |
| 12:52.30 | raster | the sCREEN is 640x480 |
| 12:52.35 | raster | BUT offscreen pxiamsp can be much bigger |
| 12:52.40 | raster | so we need to work around that |
| 12:52.45 | raster | cb22: we could |
| 12:52.46 | raster | but again |
| 12:52.51 | raster | the usefulness declines |
| 12:52.52 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: very few phones have resolution that high even today |
| 12:52.56 | raster | Linux_Galore_: yup |
| 12:52.58 | mjr | indeed the usefulness declines |
| 12:53.06 | raster | the chip really is build for 320x240 (qvga) |
| 12:53.09 | raster | but it is able to do vga |
| 12:53.13 | raster | or it seems that way |
| 12:53.13 | mjr | the 2d stuff is clearly more important |
| 12:53.17 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: why not just run at a lower res for most thing then flip higher then needed |
| 12:53.24 | raster | the 2d accel can handle higher resolutions no problem |
| 12:53.24 | Linux_Galore_ | when* |
| 12:53.28 | raster | BUT then it has limits |
| 12:53.41 | raster | it can read argb32 8888 source pixels (premul alpha) |
| 12:53.44 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: you dont need super high res for many things |
| 12:53.46 | raster | exactly what xrender uses |
| 12:53.49 | raster | perfect... |
| 12:53.49 | raster | BUT |
| 12:53.59 | raster | it can only blend TO rgb555 abd 565 destinations |
| 12:54.03 | cb22 | raster: but for making OM look sexy...? |
| 12:54.06 | raster | so you cannot take argb sources |
| 12:54.14 | raster | render to an argb intermediate image |
| 12:54.17 | raster | then composite later |
| 12:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.235.78) |
| 12:54.48 | raster | Linux_Galore_: only useful for fullscreen games basically |
| 12:54.49 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: seems like swimming the atlantic to get a bag of sugar |
| 12:55.00 | raster | again |
| 12:55.03 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@89.150.121.200) |
| 12:55.04 | raster | it does a lot of nice things |
| 12:55.11 | raster | but then has gaps |
| 12:55.16 | raster | that really break the pipeline |
| 12:55.20 | mjr | raster, well, try and make the best of it |
| 12:55.23 | raster | and if u break the pipeline |
| 12:55.28 | raster | you need to fallback to software |
| 12:55.31 | raster | and then - game over |
| 12:55.35 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F62A5C.versanet.de) |
| 12:55.40 | raster | as u need to transprot pixels to and fron on a bvery limited bus |
| 12:55.43 | raster | with the cpu |
| 12:55.48 | raster | we will do the best we can |
| 12:55.53 | raster | but we dont hve forever |
| 12:55.53 | mjr | raster, how's the mpeg-4 stuff by the way? |
| 12:55.58 | raster | and limited resources |
| 12:56.05 | ScaredyCat | errm... |
| 12:56.06 | mjr | *nod* |
| 12:56.10 | raster | mjr: we are working on xvmc support |
| 12:56.24 | ScaredyCat | ok, so shouldn't they have asked someone, like you, who knew this stuff ? |
| 12:56.31 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: Im thinking run it at low res so you have some overhead for eye candy effects then video, pdf files,email run at a higher setting |
| 12:56.36 | raster | we have other stability problems to solve with video mem contents doing strange things |
| 12:56.37 | ScaredyCat | before designing the board? |
| 12:56.44 | cb22 | raster: isn't xvmc only mpeg2? |
| 12:56.57 | raster | cb22: its the core of being able to do mp4 too |
| 12:57.11 | raster | ScaredyCat: too late |
| 12:57.12 | cb22 | nice |
| 12:57.13 | raster | the chip is there |
| 12:57.19 | raster | i only came on board last month |
| 12:57.34 | ScaredyCat | I know, but it seems pretty obvious to you what's needed |
| 12:57.38 | raster | all i can say is - we will do the best we can |
| 12:57.48 | raster | if we can manage it - we will publish the chip specs too |
| 12:57.49 | raster | if possible |
| 12:57.51 | Linux_Galore_ | raster: did you see the video of e17 running on the NEO |
| 12:57.52 | ScaredyCat | so they should have got someone who knows this stuff to loo at it |
| 12:57.59 | ScaredyCat | look |
| 12:58.09 | raster | (we currently can publish any drivers we write under any open license we wnt, but cant' release the specs we have under nda) |
| 12:58.24 | raster | Linux_Galore_: yup - i did. and thats slow :) it needs some tuning |
| 12:58.25 | raster | :) |
| 12:58.38 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-244-187.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:58.53 | raster | have faith |
| 12:59.00 | raster | we will try and get you the best experience we can |
| 12:59.03 | raster | it just may take some time |
| 12:59.12 | Linux_Galore_ | I like the new layout for the main screen on the NEO, the big clock etc I like |
| 12:59.24 | cb22 | indeed |
| 12:59.28 | raster | software=wise we have many other thngs to fix on the gta-02 to make it usable for you guys to develop on |
| 12:59.50 | raster | i have plans i want to see happen that would bring a completely radical nxt-gen ui |
| 13:00.01 | raster | something far beyond what u've seen form apple or anyone else |
| 13:00.02 | ScaredyCat | raster: you have until Monday 12th ... |
| 13:00.11 | raster | ScaredyCat: heheheh |
| 13:00.17 | Linux_Galore_ | lol |
| 13:00.18 | raster | thats in 1 minute |
| 13:00.24 | raster | oops |
| 13:00.26 | raster | actually |
| 13:00.28 | raster | thats now |
| 13:00.29 | raster | :) |
| 13:00.40 | guaqua | you have 9 hours in my books ;) |
| 13:00.50 | cb22 | same from me |
| 13:01.05 | torpor | anyone know how to fix the problem with the RNDIS driver under OSX where it gets a new en# every time you plug/unplug the neo? |
| 13:01.13 | Linux_Galore_ | Mon Nov 12 00:01:10 EST 2007 |
| 13:01.22 | torpor | e17 runs on the neo? |
| 13:01.35 | raster | torpor: yes. why wouldn't it? |
| 13:01.47 | Linux_Galore_ | torpor: yep, video on youtube, just search for openmoko |
| 13:01.48 | raster | i threw it on my n800 for giggles a few months back |
| 13:01.58 | mjr | (and hey, in principle you should be able to split the ogl rendering into two buffers, though 'course, that'd be a whole new category of driver effort and overhead ;] ) |
| 13:02.26 | raster | mjr: ys - in principle |
| 13:02.32 | raster | but if u want a gta-02 soon |
| 13:02.38 | Linux_Galore_ | been years since I used N17 |
| 13:02.42 | raster | u dont want us to start spending lots of our time writing all this |
| 13:02.58 | mjr | raster, yes yes, see my previous lines :] |
| 13:03.01 | cb22 | raster: is it planned to be released once the _basic_ driver support is done? |
| 13:03.09 | Linux_Galore_ | I never liked Enlightenment for some reason |
| 13:03.16 | raster | cb22: yes |
| 13:03.32 | cb22 | and from all indications the hardware is stable? |
| 13:03.41 | raster | not yet |
| 13:03.50 | torpor | Linux_Galore_: not a star trek fan? |
| 13:04.08 | Linux_Galore_ | torpor: not really, Im an anime fan |
| 13:04.24 | IfChinsCouldKill | Are there any plans to integrate some sort of automatic update for openmoko? Like over wlan or something? Or even to update the firmware later? |
| 13:04.35 | cb22 | IfChinsCouldKill: ipkg upgrade? |
| 13:04.43 | raster | automatic - not until we have a lot more userspace done well |
| 13:04.47 | raster | but it is able to be updated |
| 13:05.20 | raster | u'll ned to go to the cmdline for now |
| 13:05.20 | ScaredyCat | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbqx_HdLs-k |
| 13:05.26 | Linux_Galore_ | heh, make a LCARS UI for the OM |
| 13:05.36 | Linux_Galore_ | now that would be sad |
| 13:06.05 | Linux_Galore_ | someone has made a LCARS rig for the N800/770 |
| 13:06.21 | Linux_Galore_ | yes there is a video on youtube |
| 13:06.24 | IfChinsCouldKill | Yeah. I wondered how cool it would be to go to sleep and wake up and have lots of coll software being automatically installed while i was asleep... |
| 13:06.40 | raster | IfChinsCouldKill: its possible at the lowest levels |
| 13:06.51 | raster | but we would want a nice ui on top to give u status etc. etc. |
| 13:07.02 | raster | though right now we would like a wifi driver too |
| 13:07.03 | ScaredyCat | and to stop it doing it |
| 13:07.04 | raster | :) |
| 13:07.10 | raster | ScaredyCat: yup |
| 13:07.39 | Linux_Galore_ | I noticed McDonalds no has WiFi in some places |
| 13:07.43 | Linux_Galore_ | now* |
| 13:08.15 | ScaredyCat | yeah, you can surf and get fat at the same time |
| 13:08.28 | IfChinsCouldKill | hehe |
| 13:08.36 | Linux_Galore_ | surf the web as your arteries clog up |
| 13:08.47 | zash | afaik you have to pay for macdonnalds-wlan-access sih |
| 13:08.59 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 13:09.09 | ScaredyCat | with your arteries? |
| 13:09.15 | Linux_Galore_ | zash: its free, you just have to login ans give them your email |
| 13:09.31 | zash | and, go to macdonnalds |
| 13:09.44 | ScaredyCat | http://www.mcdonalds.com/wireless/general_info.html |
| 13:10.02 | Linux_Galore_ | there is a starbucks near the park were I sometimes work and I sit down with my laptop in the park and download stuff heh |
| 13:10.51 | IfChinsCouldKill | McMoko sounds like a plan. |
| 13:11.06 | Linux_Galore_ | red and yellow McMoko |
| 13:11.37 | Linux_Galore_ | can I have a McMoko please, do you want skype with that |
| 13:12.41 | IfChinsCouldKill | Get one McMoko and 1GB SD-Ram for free |
| 13:12.54 | torpor | speaking of 1g sd ram, i just put that in my moko |
| 13:13.19 | Linux_Galore_ | 1Gb sd ram is cheap now |
| 13:13.38 | torpor | i'm trying to get root on sd working .. but alas it seems that my neo doesn't like the sd card for some reason .. |
| 13:13.42 | torpor | anyone else got this working? |
| 13:14.17 | cb22 | hmm, i just had an idea: hook a psp up to a neo to use as a second screen via vnc or similar |
| 13:14.32 | cb22 | that would be pretty cool, would a neo be fast enough? |
| 13:17.38 | IfChinsCouldKill | Torbor: Is that what you're looking for? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD |
| 13:17.50 | edistar_ | cb22: I can run a vnc server on my 770, it's a tiny bit slow but works |
| 13:18.04 | IfChinsCouldKill | torpor even |
| 13:18.22 | torpor | IfChinsCouldKill: yes thats what i'm doing. |
| 13:18.43 | cb22 | edistar_: i'm thinking of using my psp as like a terminal screen |
| 13:18.45 | torpor | but for some reason - i can't see the message onscreen - the neo boots from NAND and not SD. but it does see the SD when its done booting though. |
| 13:18.47 | cb22 | so i can do whatever on my neo |
| 13:19.03 | cb22 | and then type (using a bt keyboard) into a terminal running on the vnc screen displayed on the psp |
| 13:19.07 | edistar_ | should be possible... why not use the psp as a bt keyboard ;) |
| 13:19.28 | torpor | i have an apple bt keyboard hooked up to my neo, it works very well and rocks ass.. |
| 13:19.40 | edistar_ | cb22: bit complicated though.. what would be the big advantage? |
| 13:19.41 | ScaredyCat | torpor: did you make sur ehte kernel have ext2 included, not as a module? |
| 13:19.55 | torpor | ScaredyCat: yup. |
| 13:20.16 | torpor | but if it didn't have ext2 as a module, it would hang with 'cant mount root' .. but what it does instead is it boots the kernel from NAND .. |
| 13:20.59 | ScaredyCat | lemmie grab my other sd card and I'll give it a go too |
| 13:21.15 | torpor | maybe i need a newer uboot .. i'm running 1.2.0moko9_r0 |
| 13:21.23 | torpor | i'll put a newer uboot on and see if that works .. |
| 13:23.29 | ScaredyCat | what are you ruinning then? |
| 13:23.41 | torpor | uboot 1.2.0 - the latest |
| 13:23.48 | torpor | but if i say 'boot from sd' it just boots from nand |
| 13:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko Penguin (n=Pen9u1n@220.181.54.112) |
| 13:26.58 | ScaredyCat | they really need to make the insert/remove of memory cards easier... :( |
| 13:27.16 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-9-117.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 13:28.29 | Penguin | ScaredyCat: I don't think so, SD card only used to external the storage size, not for the function of USB disk. |
| 13:28.51 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 13:29.17 | Penguin | When you want copy some small file, you can use bluetooth, and usb cable for large files:) |
| 13:31.14 | ScaredyCat | yes, but when I want to upgrade my card, or change it it's a PITA |
| 13:31.51 | *** join/#openmoko oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B1047D9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 13:50.36 | josch | is it right that there is currently no other option to send/receive sms then libgsmd-tool or cu? |
| 13:50.56 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 13:51.17 | josch | I read about SMStool but it can only write sms not receive, right? |
| 13:52.29 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 13:52.55 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=user0815@f048065015.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:53.30 | josch | I read that kristian-m is developing it, right? can I help? |
| 13:54.00 | josch | sending/receiving sms is the only reason I still didn't bump my symbian phone |
| 13:54.06 | kristian-m | hi |
| 13:54.17 | josch | ah hi |
| 13:54.39 | torpor | okay i'm getting "undefined instruction" and then the CPU resets when i try to boot from SD .. |
| 13:54.42 | josch | kristian-m, is there any way one can contribute to your tool? |
| 13:54.48 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-005.eplus-online.de) |
| 13:54.51 | torpor | i used my video camera to record the bootup so i could read the message frame .. |
| 13:54.59 | kristian-m | josch yes, just send me a patch |
| 13:55.14 | torpor | i wonder if there is some partition setup that has to be done first to make an SD card bootable .. |
| 13:55.17 | kristian-m | josch i plan to put my stuff into svn soon |
| 13:55.23 | josch | kristian-m, are you currently developing on it? I do not want to do ... |
| 13:55.28 | josch | ah okay... wanted to ask this |
| 13:55.34 | kristian-m | josch nop, not currently |
| 13:56.02 | kristian-m | josch if you like just do the new release ant link it to the wiki :-) |
| 13:56.05 | josch | so its save for me to frickle around with it without makeing some duplicates of things you do atm |
| 13:56.17 | kristian-m | josch jap |
| 13:56.36 | josch | kristian-m, super! I will dive into your code right away! |
| 13:57.18 | *** join/#openmoko geneberg (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-33a934728a10e371) |
| 13:57.45 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.teknikservice.nu) |
| 13:57.50 | kristian-m | josch have fun ;-) |
| 13:58.14 | josch | kristian-m, I will! I hate my symbian phone!! |
| 13:58.21 | josch | :-D |
| 13:58.34 | *** join/#openmoko dashavoo (n=dashavoo@77-100-172-21.cable.ubr04.wals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:00.19 | dashavoo | hey, I finally managed to do "make qemu" by running it in a virtual machine of debian stable (it doesnt work on debian unstable for whatever reason), after starting the qemu image I get what I assume is the bootscreen, but it just hangs when the status bar gets to the end... is this normal, or is there something I am doing wrong? |
| 14:01.28 | josch | dashavoo, you are running debian in a VM on debian? why not using a chroot environment for such tasks? |
| 14:01.58 | dashavoo | didnt occur to me |
| 14:02.06 | dashavoo | qemu was on my mind |
| 14:03.29 | dashavoo | but anyway, thats not the point anymore (says he as he diverts attention away from his stupidity), just not sure why openmoko just hangs where it does |
| 14:04.13 | CM | dashavoo: How long did you wait for it to boot? |
| 14:04.20 | CM | It takes ages in qemu |
| 14:05.20 | dashavoo | CM, ah ok... about how long? because the status bar moved at a pretty reasonable speed at first but since it got to the end (or just before it really), it hasnt moved in 10 minutes |
| 14:05.47 | CM | Hmm.. 10 minutes should definitely be enough, think it used to take about 5-6 on mine |
| 14:06.01 | CM | Can you ssh in? |
| 14:06.07 | torpor | has nobody done root-on-SD? |
| 14:06.23 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 14:06.39 | CM | torpor: I've only heard people talk about it, but that was long ago and I don't know if anyone succeeded |
| 14:06.58 | torpor | CM: it seems to me as if there are people who hae done it .. but i guess i'm running into issues here with this for some reason |
| 14:07.20 | torpor | the screencap says 'undefined instruction', so that means its not reading the image off SD properly, or the image is itself corrupt |
| 14:07.26 | torpor | so i'll try the whole set up again .. |
| 14:07.47 | CM | torpor: Are you following this one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD |
| 14:07.49 | dashavoo | CM, how would I go about sshing in? (how would I find the IP address is what im asking) |
| 14:08.06 | torpor | CM: yes. but i'm wondering if there is a geometry condition .. like i can't use a 1gig partition or something .. |
| 14:08.19 | CM | torpor: Ah, that's possible |
| 14:09.03 | CM | dashavoo: Honestly I don't know. I've never tried. I think you have to use gadgetfs somehow, should be in the wiki too |
| 14:09.38 | CM | dashavoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Setting_up_USB_connection |
| 14:09.48 | dashavoo | thanks |
| 14:09.58 | *** join/#openmoko esben_ (n=esben@0x55532124.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:10.11 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 14:11.44 | CM | dashavoo: It's easier to search here than directly in the wiki btw: http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ |
| 14:12.37 | dashavoo | ah, cool |
| 14:13.00 | CM | It also searches all relevant bugzillas, api's, mailinglists and so on |
| 14:13.01 | dashavoo | bookmarked |
| 14:13.07 | CM | :) |
| 14:15.25 | *** join/#openmoko winkle (i=winkle@suiko.acc.umu.se) |
| 14:17.22 | dashavoo | what should come after neo_modem_rst_switch: Modem reset. ? |
| 14:17.33 | dashavoo | because thats where it just stops |
| 14:18.03 | torpor | oh damn |
| 14:18.08 | torpor | whats the cmd to rebuild the kernel image (uImage)? |
| 14:19.05 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 14:19.50 | balrog-kun | torpor: make uImage :) |
| 14:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.235.78) |
| 14:20.07 | ScaredyCat | mmm... |
| 14:20.20 | ScaredyCat | I can't get it to boot from sd either torpor |
| 14:21.01 | torpor | ScaredyCat: darn |
| 14:21.03 | torpor | balrog-kun: thanks. |
| 14:21.11 | torpor | ScaredyCat: what is the geom of your SD card? |
| 14:21.31 | torpor | i'm trying now with a 1gig card formatted to two partitions. if that doesn't work i'll try a 512meg card .. |
| 14:21.36 | ScaredyCat | it's a 512 that came with the neo |
| 14:21.48 | torpor | maybe u-boot doesn't know about geometry other than that of the micro-SD's that openmoko shipped with the phones .. |
| 14:21.51 | torpor | oh damn |
| 14:22.46 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb_ (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br) |
| 14:23.37 | ScaredyCat | some people seem t get it working with no problems... |
| 14:23.41 | ScaredyCat | apparently |
| 14:23.57 | CM | torpor: I'd guess "make build-package-linux-openmoko" or linux-openmoko-devel should give you a new kernel image |
| 14:24.32 | torpor | CM: thanks |
| 14:24.48 | balrog-kun | dashavoo: hmm, hangs for me too |
| 14:24.52 | torpor | ScaredyCat: i guess its a matter of geometry .. is your disk formatted with linux partitions, and ext2/ext3? |
| 14:27.00 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve87 (n=fradeve@87.18.196.123) |
| 14:27.58 | ScaredyCat | it's just 512mb of ext2 |
| 14:28.05 | ScaredyCat | 1 partitiion |
| 14:29.21 | dashavoo | balrog-kun, atleast I know its not just me... wish I knew how to sort it though |
| 14:30.52 | balrog-kun | dashavoo: hmm, the system is apparently still alive, just doesn't go into the gui |
| 14:31.04 | balrog-kun | i'll try to ssh into it |
| 14:32.14 | torpor | ScaredyCat: i'm trying now with ext3, inc ase that makes a difference. |
| 14:33.35 | cb22 | afaik ext3 on a sd card is a bad idea |
| 14:35.28 | mjr | it does add some write load, but I shouldn't think it's overmuch |
| 14:36.01 | torpor | i'd be happy if it just worked. |
| 14:37.37 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
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| 14:47.45 | wirrwarr | mahlzeit |
| 14:50.11 | *** part/#openmoko winkle (i=winkle@suiko.acc.umu.se) |
| 15:00.56 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 15:02.55 | dashavoo | balrog-kun, any success ssh'ing into it? |
| 15:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko TimTemple (n=TimTempl@79-67-209-205.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 15:06.01 | TimTemple | Hi everyone |
| 15:06.29 | dashavoo | hi TimTemple |
| 15:07.36 | balrog-kun | dashavoo: no, but it booted for me |
| 15:07.41 | TimTemple | Got some time to play with my neo but still struggling with the usb networking |
| 15:07.44 | balrog-kun | dashavoo: so i didn't try anymore |
| 15:08.00 | TimTemple | Anychance you can help me out? |
| 15:08.15 | balrog-kun | dashavoo: i had forgotten that i had modified my rootfs so that it wouldn't go into gui, when i reflashed it works |
| 15:08.27 | balrog-kun | dashavoo: there's something wrong with the USB host though |
| 15:08.32 | ScaredyCat | what's the problem TimTemple? |
| 15:08.41 | balrog-kun | but there are new sounds (yay!) |
| 15:09.18 | dashavoo | ok, guess I will have to mess about a bit more |
| 15:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.235.78) |
| 15:10.03 | TimTemple | Well, I went through the wiki steps and can log into the neo. From the neo I can ping the host fine but nothing else on my network. I kinda figured it might not work since my network is 192.168.0 |
| 15:10.16 | balrog-kun | dashavoo: i'm configuring qemu with --enable-phonesim, it might have something to do with this |
| 15:10.26 | ScaredyCat | have you set up routing? |
| 15:11.10 | ScaredyCat | you can try my script, for a quick setup.. (iirc it's linked from the wiki page) |
| 15:11.11 | TimTemple | Is that adding gateway 10.10.10.21 to /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 15:11.20 | dashavoo | balrog-kun, ok, il try that |
| 15:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@dsl51B69A73.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 15:14.19 | *** join/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:16.15 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor_ (n=Weteor@i59F60FB2.versanet.de) |
| 15:17.40 | cb22 | anyone know if linux has an equiviliant to freebsd's snp and watch(8)? |
| 15:18.16 | mjr | what's it do? |
| 15:18.17 | edistar_ | cb22: what is snp? |
| 15:19.25 | ScaredyCat | torpor: |
| 15:19.39 | TobiX | http://heapsort.de/mancmp.php?query=snp |
| 15:19.41 | cb22 | it allows you to SNooP on ttys |
| 15:19.42 | ScaredyCat | !ombug 799 |
| 15:19.43 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 799, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 15:19.44 | cdbot2 | * * obri(AT)chaostreff.ch: data abort while reading from SD Cards |
| 15:19.45 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=799 |
| 15:20.26 | cb22 | http://www.bsdguides.org/guides/freebsd/misc/watch.php |
| 15:20.33 | TobiX | cb22: A friend of mine built a LD_PRELOAD wrapper to do something like that... |
| 15:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@O9e2f.o.pppool.de) |
| 15:20.52 | cb22 | TobiX: hmm, sounds a bit too complex for me |
| 15:20.58 | mjr | googling "linux tty snooping" finds http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Logging/Snoop-3341.shtml |
| 15:20.58 | torpor | ScaredyCat: thanks. so it looks like it doesn't work. |
| 15:21.18 | ScaredyCat | welll, not quite... |
| 15:21.25 | ScaredyCat | we just need to find a newer uboot |
| 15:21.28 | torpor | i'm not gettng "data abort" though, i'm getting "undefined instruction", then it reboots . . . |
| 15:21.40 | cb22 | mjr: great, thx. /me slaps himself for missing that |
| 15:21.49 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:21.59 | ScaredyCat | what uboot do you have? |
| 15:22.05 | torpor | i have 1.2.0 aug 19 |
| 15:22.34 | ScaredyCat | i have 1.2.0-moko9_r0 |
| 15:22.41 | ScaredyCat | 21 August 07 |
| 15:22.49 | torpor | ok |
| 15:22.53 | torpor | i wonder what we should do then ? |
| 15:23.16 | torpor | try to find a good u-boot i suppose .. . . . |
| 15:23.27 | ScaredyCat | i have a newer uboot (31st Aug,) but I don;t know if that'd fix it |
| 15:25.25 | torpor | ScaredyCat: you're not running it though right? |
| 15:25.30 | torpor | you just have it handy, non-flashed? |
| 15:25.41 | ScaredyCat | correct |
| 15:25.51 | torpor | wanna give it to me and i'll test it? |
| 15:25.54 | ScaredyCat | I might well just flash it |
| 15:26.00 | torpor | ok |
| 15:26.28 | torpor | i really wanna get a 1gig rootfs set up with my neo .. necessary to my continued hacking .. so if there's anything i can do to continue debug this, let me know |
| 15:27.00 | *** join/#openmoko eonj (n=ianj@c-68-35-225-183.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 15:27.51 | *** part/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@O9e2f.o.pppool.de) |
| 15:28.38 | ScaredyCat | it flashed, but didn't appear to make any differenct |
| 15:28.48 | torpor | okay i'm building uboot now from source, lets see wht happens. |
| 15:28.49 | ScaredyCat | difference |
| 15:31.50 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 15:32.59 | torpor | okay ScaredyCat i just put ./u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+gitf34024d4a328e6edd906456da98d2c537155c4f7+svn2943-r1.bin onboard |
| 15:33.06 | torpor | seems not to make a difference |
| 15:33.25 | guaqua | what a compact version definition :) |
| 15:33.27 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 15:35.50 | torpor | damnit that is annoying |
| 15:36.01 | torpor | we need to find someone who has this working and find out what u-boot they have. |
| 15:37.29 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 15:37.39 | xzcvczx | what you trying to get working? |
| 15:37.43 | ScaredyCat | otherwise it seems to be broken |
| 15:37.44 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 15:37.54 | ScaredyCat | xzcvczx: boting from sd |
| 15:37.57 | ScaredyCat | booting |
| 15:38.35 | xzcvczx | oh not a clue sorry |
| 15:38.58 | ScaredyCat | no, we'v been trying for ages :/ |
| 15:39.00 | xzcvczx | does the bug still happen though where too much card io == die? |
| 15:39.09 | ScaredyCat | seems a bug in u-boot possibly |
| 15:39.19 | ScaredyCat | no, hat bug is fixed |
| 15:39.22 | ScaredyCat | that |
| 15:39.26 | xzcvczx | oh ok |
| 15:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko geneberg (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-7c0dccb23ecfa26b) |
| 15:40.21 | xzcvczx | gah 4:39am and i just got home :S damn mspaint+powerpoint |
| 15:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 15:42.03 | ScaredyCat | torpor: if you boot to u-boot and do an mmcinit, what do you get for the 'size' |
| 15:42.15 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (n=kwkw@125-253-17-235.dyn.ver.bigair.net.au) |
| 15:42.17 | ScaredyCat | size = 0 |
| 15:42.18 | ScaredyCat | GTA01Bv4 # |
| 15:42.24 | torpor | problem is i havent worked out how to 'boot to uboot' yet .. i'm on mac osx .. |
| 15:42.30 | ScaredyCat | which i'm guessing is why mine wint boot |
| 15:42.37 | ScaredyCat | ahh ok |
| 15:42.50 | *** join/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 15:43.20 | torpor | is it normal that when you select "console on usb" uboot scrolls the screen, waits a few seconds, then returns to the menu? |
| 15:44.19 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 15:44.19 | josch | torpor, also happens on my neo |
| 15:44.30 | torpor | so how do you get to the usb seril console then ScaredyCat ? |
| 15:44.40 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 15:44.47 | ScaredyCat | I just fire up minicom on ttyACM0 |
| 15:45.20 | ScaredyCat | you might need to modprobe cmc_acm |
| 15:45.24 | ScaredyCat | cdc_acm |
| 15:45.50 | ScaredyCat | you can get minicom for osx right? |
| 15:45.54 | torpor | yeah |
| 15:46.04 | torpor | but the problem is that uboot goes back to the menu before i see the device .. |
| 15:46.18 | ScaredyCat | you don't need to use those options |
| 15:46.41 | torpor | ah did not know that |
| 15:46.45 | torpor | i'll try now |
| 15:46.45 | ScaredyCat | just setuo minicom, get readyt to start it, boot to uboot, start minicom |
| 15:47.10 | ScaredyCat | dmesg to see if the device is seen too.. |
| 15:47.27 | geneberg | torpor: have you tried "boot from sdhc" (eg. kernel from nand ) it works for me on a 6gb SDHC card i just have to set a rootdelay=10 |
| 15:47.51 | torpor | ok |
| 15:47.52 | torpor | it works. |
| 15:47.56 | torpor | i mean - i have serial console. |
| 15:47.57 | ScaredyCat | what u-boot version geneberg? |
| 15:48.01 | ScaredyCat | ool |
| 15:48.02 | ScaredyCat | cool |
| 15:48.09 | ScaredyCat | now type mmcinit |
| 15:48.30 | ScaredyCat | you should get 'some stuff' and the last line is size |
| 15:48.31 | torpor | geneberg: what version of uboot are you using? |
| 15:48.40 | torpor | ScaredyCat: yeah hang on doing an rafb |
| 15:49.10 | torpor | http://rafb.net/p/ykvdT482.html |
| 15:49.22 | geneberg | self build 1.2+gitcantremember |
| 15:49.25 | *** join/#openmoko oc2k1__ (n=oc2k1@p5B10766B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:49.26 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE2DB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:49.31 | geneberg | i take a look |
| 15:49.38 | torpor | would be helpful |
| 15:49.46 | torpor | what other envs should i set in uboot to make it nicer to work with? |
| 15:49.52 | ScaredyCat | you should be able to see it in dmesg geneberg |
| 15:49.57 | torpor | how do i kill the delay for example? i want it to never timeout and boot up .. |
| 15:50.09 | ScaredyCat | ext2load mmc 0 0x32000000 /boot/uImage |
| 15:50.16 | ScaredyCat | try that torpor |
| 15:50.21 | torpor | okay gonna do that. |
| 15:50.45 | ScaredyCat | if it says 'resetting cpu' it's broke |
| 15:50.59 | torpor | yeah its broke. |
| 15:52.05 | josch | hrm... can I ask about a gsmd problem I currently have? |
| 15:52.24 | ScaredyCat | for the boot delay stuff use: setenv boot_menu_timeout 60 |
| 15:52.29 | ScaredyCat | for 60 seconds |
| 15:52.30 | torpor | ok |
| 15:52.36 | ScaredyCat | don;t forget saveenv |
| 15:52.37 | torpor | gotta remember to saveenv too i uppose .. ;) |
| 15:52.39 | torpor | yup |
| 15:52.55 | ScaredyCat | josch: of course... you don;t need to ask to ask |
| 15:52.55 | geneberg | err its a 1.3 : u-boot 1.3.0-rc11.2.0+gitf34024d4a328e6edd906456da98d2c537155c4f7+svn2943 23.sept 2007 |
| 15:53.09 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 15:53.15 | josch | so, I start the openmoko dialer and type in my pin, dial and everything is fine |
| 15:53.21 | josch | I hang up and dial again |
| 15:53.33 | josch | it shows that it is dialing but the phone wil not ring |
| 15:53.39 | *** join/#openmoko yoka (n=yoka@cs27029003.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:53.44 | yoka | hello |
| 15:53.45 | josch | so I do /etc/init.d/gsdm stop start |
| 15:53.55 | josch | but nothing changes |
| 15:53.57 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 15:54.08 | yoka | does anybody know about the WLAN release..? Is it out yet or planned for next model or something..? |
| 15:54.10 | josch | now I tried another thing and used libgsmd-tools |
| 15:54.16 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-214-153.netcologne.de) |
| 15:54.39 | josch | there I tried Dxxxxxx to dial |
| 15:54.43 | josch | and nothing happend |
| 15:54.58 | josch | I found out that I got somehow disconnected from the network |
| 15:54.59 | ScaredyCat | hrmm |
| 15:55.11 | josch | and so I did O to power on and typed in my pin |
| 15:55.21 | josch | and r to connect |
| 15:55.22 | torpor | geneberg: did you build this yourself? |
| 15:55.34 | josch | then I can dial with Dxxxx and hangup |
| 15:55.46 | josch | and dial again and everything is fine |
| 15:55.48 | geneberg | torpor: yes |
| 15:55.55 | josch | but the openmoko dialer will not work |
| 15:56.18 | josch | so basically, all I need would be a little workaround |
| 15:56.35 | josch | mickeyl said to let a watchdog run that checks for gsmd |
| 15:56.47 | josch | ah one thing I forgot: |
| 15:56.58 | josch | in the first step when I used the openmoko dialer |
| 15:57.07 | josch | it seems to kill gsmd |
| 15:57.11 | josch | I have to restart it |
| 15:57.19 | josch | then I can use libgsmd-tools |
| 15:57.37 | josch | but starting gsmd will not reconnect my to the network |
| 15:57.51 | josch | and also the dialer seems to not beeing able to do this |
| 15:58.04 | josch | is this problem common? |
| 15:58.06 | xzcvczx | yoka: next model |
| 15:58.50 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: hmm, in my case gsmd registers automatically with the network after restarting it |
| 15:58.59 | torpor | geneberg: is there any chance you can share your uboot with us? |
| 15:59.00 | josch | openmoko dialer -> dialing -> hanging up -> dialing -> nothing happens -> restarting gsmd -> only able to use libgsmdtools |
| 15:59.04 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: well atleast 90% of the time |
| 15:59.37 | josch | is there a simple command that gives me the current gsm connection status? |
| 15:59.47 | josch | or if the modem is powerd on? |
| 16:00.01 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: Q? in libgsmd-tool? |
| 16:00.16 | josch | yeah.. :-) |
| 16:00.27 | josch | for now I'm doing everything with libgsm-tool ^^ |
| 16:00.38 | josch | I can live with it - no problem |
| 16:00.43 | josch | I was just wondering |
| 16:01.05 | josch | and while we are at libgsmd-tools |
| 16:01.07 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: well if you are into python i have written a small script that does libgsmd-tool in shell mode.. |
| 16:01.39 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, let me guess: http://sudharsh.wordpress.com/2007/11/04/pygsmd-shell-shell-mode-of-libgsmd-tool-in-python/ |
| 16:01.40 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: maybe just slap in a simple python script which checks for the network and restart gsmd? |
| 16:01.59 | josch | yeah I already had this in mind |
| 16:02.08 | josch | but wanted to ask if this is really necessary |
| 16:02.10 | geneberg | torpor: i take a look if i still have it |
| 16:02.11 | torpor | geneberg: still with us? |
| 16:02.13 | torpor | ok |
| 16:02.16 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: :P hehe yeah, |
| 16:02.16 | josch | or if I'm doning something wrong |
| 16:02.22 | TimTemple | \quit |
| 16:02.27 | *** part/#openmoko TimTemple (n=TimTempl@79-67-209-205.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:02.33 | josch | libgsmd-tools seems to work perfect |
| 16:02.36 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: yeah libgsmd-tool is a cool tool.. |
| 16:02.42 | josch | so.. |
| 16:02.46 | josch | last question |
| 16:02.54 | josch | (I will go to hacking python then) |
| 16:03.06 | josch | how do I receive sms with libgsmd-tools |
| 16:03.13 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: but thats an example of how to use pygsmd |
| 16:03.27 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: well afaik, reading sms is a bit sloppy |
| 16:03.46 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: works sometimes, but freezes everything.. |
| 16:03.59 | josch | everything?? |
| 16:04.23 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: er..sorry, libgsmd-tool... |
| 16:04.38 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: does sending sms work for you? |
| 16:04.45 | ScaredyCat | hrrm ... I can't build u-boot now: :( |
| 16:05.06 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D826A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:05.23 | Sup3rkiddo | ScaredyCat: i cant build the images, and i just deleted all my images in my backup and in the build/ directory..beat that |
| 16:05.32 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 16:05.50 | ScaredyCat | well, you can use my images if you like :) |
| 16:06.04 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 16:06.21 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: heres one trick...instead of daemonizing gsmd, start gsmd as /sbin/gsmd manually..it explains a lot of stuff |
| 16:06.23 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, didn't try to send them - I read the SMStool code and know how to do it but never tried |
| 16:06.29 | Sup3rkiddo | ScaredyCat: :P |
| 16:06.40 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, thx for the tip |
| 16:06.56 | josch | but what's the libgsmd-tools command to check for sms? |
| 16:07.02 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: especially you can see if AT commands are getting sent, which they are |
| 16:07.05 | geneberg | hmm i can just find 1.2 u-boot images |
| 16:07.18 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: '?' for help...i guess its sr=<index> |
| 16:07.48 | josch | ack... gsmd crashed again... |
| 16:07.59 | josch | I see no reason for crashing |
| 16:08.05 | torpor | geneberg: doh! |
| 16:08.44 | josch | sr=X only prints 'reading SMS |
| 16:08.55 | josch | # Read SMS |
| 16:09.07 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: yup... |
| 16:09.28 | josch | so this means I do not have any new sms? |
| 16:09.46 | *** part/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-214-153.netcologne.de) |
| 16:10.12 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: no, if someone sends you an sms, an event should be triggerred and you should get something like. "Incoming SMS at location X..blah blah" |
| 16:10.23 | Sup3rkiddo | and then you do a sr=X |
| 16:10.27 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, oha! |
| 16:10.30 | josch | so... |
| 16:10.40 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: ask your girlfriend to send you an sms |
| 16:10.45 | Sup3rkiddo | :P |
| 16:10.45 | josch | I did |
| 16:10.54 | josch | but this was before switching on the phone |
| 16:11.02 | josch | how do I get these messages? |
| 16:11.17 | geneberg | but i remember it wont work for me i set the rootdelay to 10 seconds (got a cant mount root ...) |
| 16:11.28 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: hmm, i dont think you can..ask her send it again.. |
| 16:11.39 | geneberg | *unti i set ..l* |
| 16:12.08 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, you are not able to receive sms that were sent while you are offline with openmoko??? |
| 16:12.16 | torpor | ScaredyCat: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2007-September/000522.html |
| 16:12.33 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, this sounds like a huge downer |
| 16:13.21 | ScaredyCat | 404 torpor |
| 16:13.24 | josch | I can't imagin this beeing the case |
| 16:13.31 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: nope..but hopefully should be fixed..(or i don't know)...switching the sim to my old nokia 3310, i am not getting the lost messages |
| 16:13.53 | josch | the messages are lost?? |
| 16:14.51 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@adsl-71-131-184-188.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 16:15.16 | torpor | ScaredyCat: i'm gonna use the ones from here and see what happens: |
| 16:15.16 | torpor | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.1/u-boot/ |
| 16:15.17 | abraxa_ | Hmm... I haven't seen Harald in here for a while. |
| 16:15.29 | abraxa_ | I wonder what that means. |
| 16:15.43 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: yeah, usually all messages that were sent by our buddies when the phone had been switched off are recieved after you switch it on..isn't it..But doesnt happen in the case of neo |
| 16:15.43 | ScaredyCat | those are mine torpor |
| 16:15.44 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 16:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-133-2.bas502.dsl.esat.net) |
| 16:16.20 | torpor | oh damn |
| 16:16.23 | torpor | i forgot about that. |
| 16:16.24 | torpor | ;) |
| 16:16.26 | Sup3rkiddo | i didnt know we had an automated buildhost! |
| 16:16.28 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, this is really, really a reason not to use openmoko for producticity |
| 16:16.49 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: hehe. thats why its for the developers |
| 16:17.00 | josch | I mean - I can live with calling with libgsmd-tools but... |
| 16:17.03 | torpor | okay ScaredyCat how about these! |
| 16:17.04 | torpor | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.1/tmp/deploy/images/ |
| 16:17.20 | josch | I am a developer but I want to bump my symbian phone |
| 16:17.48 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: you obviously can't replace your symbian based one at this point of time with a neo |
| 16:18.25 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, hrm... think I will sell it anyway and replace it with a really cheap - neary broken one |
| 16:18.30 | ScaredyCat | tire those too |
| 16:18.33 | ScaredyCat | tried |
| 16:18.38 | ScaredyCat | 1 sec torpor... |
| 16:18.43 | ScaredyCat | might be getting somewhere |
| 16:19.29 | torpor | ok |
| 16:19.50 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: oh come on, unless if you are in the isolated 850 mhz, selling it is weird.. |
| 16:20.11 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, how feature rich is your pygsmd atm? can I use it or stick to interfacing libgsmd-tools like smstools does? |
| 16:20.14 | ScaredyCat | :O |
| 16:20.40 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, I want to sell it, since it's a very expansive phone - nokia E70 |
| 16:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:20.45 | ScaredyCat | ok, getting somewhere, it boots from sd - partly |
| 16:20.46 | balrog-kun | hmm, the receiving of messages that were sent when phone was off shouldn't have anything to do with the phone you're using, it's done automaticlaly by network |
| 16:21.06 | ScaredyCat | then kernel panics |
| 16:21.21 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, all the features it has I do not need anymore so I will sell it while I still get around 400 € for it |
| 16:21.31 | ScaredyCat | No filesystem could nount root tried etx3 cramfs romfs |
| 16:21.37 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun: hmm yeah, but i have had some messages that had been lost...no delivery report had been given at the other end even after switching the sim.. |
| 16:21.45 | torpor | ScaredyCat: that is progress! |
| 16:21.48 | torpor | how'd you do that? |
| 16:22.09 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, should I use pygsmd or libgsmd-tools when I do a python app? |
| 16:22.33 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, is there a up to date feature list of your app? |
| 16:22.37 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: libgsmd-tools is an example for using libgsmd API..for me |
| 16:22.56 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: sure, just a sec.. |
| 16:23.06 | ScaredyCat | uploaded the uboot torpor |
| 16:23.07 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/u-boot-good-for-sd-boot-r13_0_2632_0.bin |
| 16:23.24 | torpor | great thanks ScaredyCat ! |
| 16:23.26 | torpor | i'll try it now |
| 16:23.36 | torpor | oh shit |
| 16:23.39 | torpor | brick!! |
| 16:23.41 | torpor | BRICK! |
| 16:23.41 | ScaredyCat | ?! |
| 16:23.46 | torpor | i bricked it. |
| 16:23.47 | josch | torpor, ?? |
| 16:23.50 | ScaredyCat | how |
| 16:23.53 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/python-gsmd/README?rev=92&root=python-openmoko&view=markup |
| 16:23.53 | josch | get the ambulance!! |
| 16:23.56 | ScaredyCat | wtf |
| 16:23.58 | torpor | ./u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+svnnow-r14_a89cbbd27a60e6740772000fd0688ffba1c2576a_0_2938.bin |
| 16:24.03 | torpor | ^^ produces a brick. |
| 16:24.10 | josch | f***... |
| 16:24.15 | ScaredyCat | complete brick? |
| 16:24.19 | Sup3rkiddo | torpor: you do have the debug board dont ya? |
| 16:24.21 | torpor | seems like it. |
| 16:24.25 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 16:24.28 | torpor | yeah i have the debug board .. |
| 16:24.32 | torpor | never used it though. |
| 16:24.36 | torpor | hope it works! |
| 16:25.00 | Sup3rkiddo | torpor: lets pray it will...bricking anything isnt funny (unless its an iphone) |
| 16:25.38 | torpor | damn how do i debrick!?!? |
| 16:25.50 | cjb_ie | Sup3rkiddo: ...and that's nowhere near as funny as seeing willitblend |
| 16:25.58 | Sup3rkiddo | cjb_ie: hehe |
| 16:26.11 | josch | cjb_ie, :-D |
| 16:26.40 | josch | the one and only reason for me to visit youtube :-D |
| 16:27.51 | Sup3rkiddo | torpor: buddy, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Sjf2410-linux |
| 16:28.21 | torpor | thanks Sup3rkiddo |
| 16:28.38 | torpor | buildhost.openmoko.org is down. |
| 16:28.43 | torpor | gargh! |
| 16:28.56 | Sup3rkiddo | torpor: let us know if it works..seems like a bad omen since i was about to flash uboot for no reason |
| 16:29.09 | Sup3rkiddo | doh |
| 16:29.14 | torpor | i'm gonna do it.. |
| 16:29.25 | torpor | anyone got sjf2410 local? |
| 16:31.30 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: na, only some important ones work..voicecall works, phonebook write, read...some network routines..sms send seems to send AT commands, read barfs...guess thats about it :P |
| 16:31.35 | geneberg | here is my boot-env from dmesg ( sorry have seen it to late ) |
| 16:31.40 | geneberg | http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m52afb4b9 |
| 16:32.19 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, hrm... so I'm kinda stuck with interfacing libgsmd-tools, am I? |
| 16:34.06 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: libgsmd-tools..yeah but most of the stuff that it does could be achieved using pygsmd..works in my case...would love to have a scapegoat..=) |
| 16:35.25 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: just curious, are you trying to develop using the libgsmd API, or just want to use the libgsmd-tool to do stuff? |
| 16:35.39 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, I know that it is possible to do all of this with pygsmd but If I understood you correctly, then sending receiving sms is not supported by pxgsmd? |
| 16:36.01 | josch | I will ligsmd-tools do the stuff like smstool does |
| 16:36.02 | ScaredyCat | torpor: what are you after? |
| 16:36.37 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/sjf2410 |
| 16:37.07 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: i have the method in place but it doesnt work..AT commands are sent but i guess its an upstream problem as it doesnt work in the case of libgsmd-tool as well... |
| 16:37.50 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, what function specifically? |
| 16:38.06 | CM | torpor: Maybe put a bug report up about that uboot version? |
| 16:38.12 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SMSTool <= it's from kristian-m |
| 16:38.18 | CM | So no one else uses it by mistake.. |
| 16:39.28 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: pygsmd.sms.read(index) should return a list with the number and the message |
| 16:40.18 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, so you say even with libgsmd-tools this is not possible? |
| 16:40.28 | torpor | ScaredyCat: thanks! |
| 16:40.42 | torpor | CM: i think the problem was i downloaded it wrong in the first place .. |
| 16:40.54 | CM | torpor: Ah, ok |
| 16:41.04 | torpor | how does this work - i need to hook up parallel port or something? |
| 16:41.13 | CM | I need a known good uboot from after october 15th.. |
| 16:43.18 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: not in my case atleast...it worked only once some weeks ago |
| 16:43.58 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, I understand your question "does it send sms" from before now |
| 16:44.03 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:44.12 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, will this try now |
| 16:44.48 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: hmm ok. please do.. |
| 16:45.29 | ScaredyCat | torpor: it's all usb |
| 16:45.38 | ScaredyCat | cm : try mine :) |
| 16:45.55 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hmmm.. Might be worth a shot ;) |
| 16:45.57 | *** join/#openmoko eonj (n=ianj@fl-71-0-156-247.dyn.embarqhsd.net) |
| 16:45.59 | CM | Sure it works ok? |
| 16:46.13 | CM | I don't have a debug-board and it would be a pain to brick it |
| 16:46.42 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:47.12 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: sending sms through libgsmd-tool works..i was of an impression that you were asking about reading them..sorry for the communication error.. |
| 16:47.48 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, just tried it out, np |
| 16:47.59 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, in fact I was speaking about reading them |
| 16:49.42 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: but then again sms is quite sloppy, i'd say works around 40-50% of the time in my case..and the latest code for gsmd goes into libgsmd-devel tools afaik..if yours is r3074, its old |
| 16:50.03 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, the sms I sent with libgsmd-tools did not reach the recipient |
| 16:50.19 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: ooh, dang... |
| 16:50.38 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, ?? |
| 16:51.16 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: nm, check if gsmd crashed again? |
| 16:51.44 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, in this case, it would not show my carrier if I press P wouldn't it? |
| 16:52.27 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: no it shouldnt.. |
| 16:52.36 | josch | so it's up and running |
| 16:52.49 | torpor | oh damn this is annoying |
| 16:53.11 | ScaredyCat | CM: I ust used the recent one |
| 16:53.31 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: oh!, weird...try the libgsmd-devel ipks then, its bleeding edge gsmd |
| 16:53.45 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, k will try them |
| 16:54.09 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, I install them as usual with ipkg and then run libgsmd-tools again? |
| 16:54.57 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: yeah but be careful though...you could end up with a recursive dependency horror story |
| 16:55.08 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, ^^ |
| 16:55.24 | josch | bleeding etch is better than sitting around an doing nothing |
| 16:55.48 | josch | etch... edge I mean ^^ |
| 16:56.07 | josch | <= debian adict |
| 16:56.09 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: hehe true, but just take car as a host of things depends on gsmd... |
| 16:56.26 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: :P, and etch and bleeding edge oxymorons |
| 16:56.32 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, will know more after trying! |
| 16:56.51 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: good luck..=D, |
| 16:59.42 | josch | öh... where do I get a devel ipk? I though of them as the ipk files like libgsmd-dev_0.1+svnr3074-r37_fic-gta01.ipk |
| 17:00.02 | josch | but this has the same rev as my normal libgsmd |
| 17:00.54 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: no no..make build-package-libgsmd-devel |
| 17:00.59 | josch | ah thx |
| 17:02.09 | josch | wow, my normal libgsmd is 300 revisions behind ^^ |
| 17:03.30 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: that includes revisions in the other part of OM tree as well..so not much would have changed |
| 17:04.20 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, ah... kk |
| 17:05.23 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@236.84-48-53.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:07.30 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, okay, it's up and running - will now test sending sms |
| 17:08.12 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: that was quick, O.O.....you didnt get any dependency warnings and such? |
| 17:08.29 | josch | yeah, while removing the old gsmd |
| 17:08.43 | Sup3rkiddo | ah ok. |
| 17:08.46 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A54961.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:08.57 | josch | it warned me that other packages depended on it but I ignored is |
| 17:09.13 | josch | s/is/it/ |
| 17:09.33 | josch | thx apt... |
| 17:10.05 | abraxa_ | ~botsnack |
| 17:10.05 | apt | abraxa_: :) |
| 17:10.11 | torpor | okay this sucks ass |
| 17:10.16 | torpor | my debug board connector is broken |
| 17:10.25 | torpor | looks like i'm screwed. consider me neo1973'less. |
| 17:10.39 | Sup3rkiddo | / |
| 17:10.41 | josch | torpor, no! don't give up! |
| 17:10.52 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: the regex triggered the bot :P |
| 17:11.03 | josch | Sup3rkiddo, what??? |
| 17:11.07 | josch | -_- |
| 17:11.08 | Sup3rkiddo | josch: ye |
| 17:11.13 | Sup3rkiddo | s/ye/puppy |
| 17:11.20 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 17:11.26 | Sup3rkiddo | why isnt it working |
| 17:11.29 | josch | s/ye/pussy/ |
| 17:11.32 | Sup3rkiddo | ~lart apt |
| 17:11.32 | apt | takes out a cattle prod and gives sup3rkiddo a good jolt |
| 17:11.37 | Sup3rkiddo | yeah right |
| 17:11.39 | josch | hrhr |
| 17:11.45 | josch | bots are fun |
| 17:11.53 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: You forgot the final slash |
| 17:12.00 | Sup3rkiddo | ah ok..hehe |
| 17:12.09 | josch | how complex may the regexes be? |
| 17:12.19 | Sup3rkiddo | anyway cya all, semesters start tomorrow..bye.. |
| 17:13.05 | josch | is it PCRE compliant? |
| 17:13.17 | torpor | fucking godamnit! now the phone connector is busted too! SHIT! |
| 17:15.02 | abraxa_ | torpor: Busted in what way? |
| 17:15.14 | CM | The usb? |
| 17:15.22 | torpor | the gta01 connectors (bblack part) just snapped |
| 17:15.23 | torpor | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board |
| 17:15.29 | torpor | both on the debug board and on the gta01 |
| 17:15.36 | torpor | super fragile piece of junk. wtf?! |
| 17:15.42 | torpor | <--- pissed |
| 17:16.30 | abraxa_ | torpor: So the black parts came off? |
| 17:16.41 | torpor | yup |
| 17:16.42 | torpor | broke |
| 17:16.56 | torpor | i used -zero- force, just touched it and it was like dust crumbling in my hands. |
| 17:17.04 | ScaredyCat | torpor: not to piss you off more... but... |
| 17:17.10 | *** join/#openmoko Ebbe (n=ebbe@users.kollegienet.dk) |
| 17:17.10 | torpor | so now i have to do this debrick with someone holding the connectors in mnaually .. |
| 17:17.17 | torpor | ScaredyCat: what? |
| 17:17.22 | ScaredyCat | it works. |
| 17:17.29 | torpor | you got boot-sd working? |
| 17:17.31 | torpor | great! |
| 17:17.33 | ScaredyCat | I have openmoko + neo dual boot |
| 17:17.35 | ScaredyCat | but.. |
| 17:17.37 | torpor | great. |
| 17:17.42 | josch | eat that bot!! <a href="../../../o/p/e/OpenMokoe_2008_af34.html#something"> |
| 17:17.43 | josch | s/<a href=\"\.\.\/\.\.\/\.\.\/.{1,9}\/.{1,9}\/.{1,9}\/([^\"]+?[[:upper:]]+[^\"]*?)_[a-f0-9]{4}\.html(#?[^\"]*?)\">/<a href=\"$1$2\">/g |
| 17:17.43 | ScaredyCat | I had to use ext3 |
| 17:17.48 | torpor | ok |
| 17:18.04 | torpor | whats the shrotest path tog etting uboot back in my neo so i can fix this problem, anyone know? |
| 17:18.18 | torpor | like, how does this openocd work? |
| 17:18.22 | ScaredyCat | it doesn't boot at all? |
| 17:18.32 | ScaredyCat | man openocd was a pita |
| 17:18.33 | torpor | no, nothing happens on power up at all ScaredyCat |
| 17:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko lSpeedEvi (n=irc@mauve.plus.com) |
| 17:19.42 | torpor | what the hell does this mean: Info: configuration.c:50 configuration_output_handler(): Command ft2232_device_desc not found |
| 17:19.45 | torpor | openocd? |
| 17:20.56 | ScaredyCat | you have to modeprobe ftdi_something... |
| 17:21.08 | torpor | damnit |
| 17:21.22 | ScaredyCat | lemmie see if i can find what I used for reference |
| 17:22.39 | ScaredyCat | i do remember the whole process was awful |
| 17:23.08 | torpor | okay i'm officially defeated |
| 17:23.10 | torpor | blows ass |
| 17:23.15 | eonj | damn torpor :( |
| 17:23.19 | torpor | do i have to have the debug board hooked up to USB as well as the neo? |
| 17:23.52 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 17:24.46 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 17:25.04 | ScaredyCat | iirc otherwise there's no power |
| 17:25.22 | torpor | ok |
| 17:27.05 | ScaredyCat | you looked at this? : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openocd#Using_OpenOCD |
| 17:27.48 | torpor | yeah |
| 17:28.05 | torpor | i've got the neo hooked up, its got power (over its usb cable) and the debug board is on - two lights are on .. |
| 17:28.08 | torpor | but openocd says: |
| 17:28.15 | torpor | Info: configuration.c:50 configuration_output_handler(): Command ft2232_device_desc not found |
| 17:28.56 | ScaredyCat | For later versions of OpenOCD you may need to specify the device description. For the v2 Debug board add this line to your openocd.cfg: |
| 17:28.57 | ScaredyCat | ft2232_device_desc "Debug Board for Neo1973 A" |
| 17:29.03 | torpor | done |
| 17:29.11 | torpor | same result |
| 17:29.12 | ScaredyCat | but does it match |
| 17:29.23 | torpor | what do you mean? the string? |
| 17:29.44 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 17:29.50 | ScaredyCat | I have ft2232_device_desc "Debug Board for Neo1973" |
| 17:29.55 | ScaredyCat | ie no A |
| 17:29.58 | torpor | hmm.. |
| 17:30.03 | drath | if the command isn't found the setting really doesn't matter |
| 17:30.20 | ScaredyCat | good pont... |
| 17:30.20 | drath | do you have "interface ft2232" before the ft2232_device_desc? |
| 17:30.36 | torpor | yup |
| 17:31.09 | drath | are you on windows? |
| 17:31.12 | torpor | no linux |
| 17:31.13 | torpor | Debug: jtag.c:1249 handle_interface_command(): 'interface' command didn't specify a valid interface |
| 17:31.20 | drath | ok, there you go |
| 17:31.22 | ScaredyCat | torpor: http://pastebin.ca/769753 |
| 17:31.40 | drath | the ft2232_* commands are only available if the ft2232 interface was selected |
| 17:31.47 | drath | apparently it didn't see ft2232 as a valid interface |
| 17:31.49 | torpor | hmm. |
| 17:31.51 | drath | did you compile it yourself? |
| 17:31.53 | torpor | no |
| 17:32.00 | torpor | this is from the .deb packages provided. |
| 17:32.04 | torpor | ls |
| 17:32.14 | torpor | people.openmoko.org/laforge/dpkg/ |
| 17:32.24 | torpor | openocd_82-1_i386.deb |
| 17:32.37 | drath | hum, 82 is ancient :) |
| 17:33.16 | drath | could very well be from a time when they used wigglers only |
| 17:33.21 | torpor | ok |
| 17:33.22 | drath | and no FT2232 based interface |
| 17:33.24 | torpor | so what should i use? |
| 17:33.29 | torpor | ScaredyCat: you did this on linux right? |
| 17:33.30 | ScaredyCat | that's the version i have |
| 17:33.33 | drath | there are openocd packages in debian and ubuntu, afaik |
| 17:33.33 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 17:33.49 | ScaredyCat | same |
| 17:33.53 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:34.06 | torpor | so what is this ft2232 interface? |
| 17:34.13 | torpor | usbserial 34152 1 ftdi_sio |
| 17:34.16 | torpor | is it that? |
| 17:34.22 | torpor | ftdi_sio? |
| 17:34.24 | drath | FTDI FT2232 is the USB chip used on the Openmoko devboard |
| 17:34.29 | torpor | ok |
| 17:34.30 | drath | it has two channels, that can be uart |
| 17:34.32 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 17:34.40 | drath | or JTAG, or some other synchronous serial protocol |
| 17:34.41 | torpor | Bus 002 Device 005: ID 1457:5118 |
| 17:34.45 | torpor | ^^^ thats the usb device |
| 17:35.03 | drath | the problem is that the OpenOCD code didn't identify "ft2232" as a valid interface |
| 17:35.21 | torpor | so i should compile it myself (openocd)? |
| 17:35.22 | drath | which could be because a) there's something wrong with the .cfg, or b) because ft2232 wasn't selected at compile time |
| 17:35.51 | drath | i changed the name at some point, when i unified support for libftdi and ftdi's ftd2xx |
| 17:35.56 | drath | just don't remember when |
| 17:36.19 | drath | well, it shouldn't be too hard to compile it yourself |
| 17:36.24 | drath | grab the latest sources from SVN |
| 17:36.35 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.246) |
| 17:36.42 | torpor | but ScaredyCat you used that .deb right? |
| 17:36.43 | drath | ah, just checked the svn log, the unified interface got introduced in 83 |
| 17:36.58 | drath | before that, the interfaces were ftdi2232 and ftd2xx |
| 17:37.07 | drath | but you really shouldn't be using that code anymore |
| 17:37.34 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 17:38.35 | torpor | drath: i just wanna get uboot working again and then i'll never use openocd again! |
| 17:39.11 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@rn083002.morris.umn.edu) |
| 17:39.24 | ScaredyCat | lol - that's *exactly* what I said |
| 17:40.18 | drath | well, people are actively using it, both for hobby purposes and in production environments, so it can't be that bad :-P |
| 17:40.28 | torpor | argh, so annoying. |
| 17:41.20 | ScaredyCat | the connectors are crappy on the neo... |
| 17:41.21 | drath | torpor: which distribution do you use? |
| 17:41.49 | ScaredyCat | bbiab |
| 17:41.51 | torpor | drath ubunty |
| 17:41.55 | torpor | ubuntu |
| 17:42.26 | torpor | edgy |
| 17:42.59 | drath | there are openocd packages in universe |
| 17:43.19 | drath | at least for gutsy |
| 17:43.49 | drath | ah, only gutsy and hardy |
| 17:45.12 | edistar | what is openocd? |
| 17:45.21 | torpor | ok i'll build from source - drath can you advise me what i have to enable in the configure line? |
| 17:45.46 | drath | edistar: a JTAG debug software for ARM cores |
| 17:45.55 | edistar | drath: thx |
| 17:46.05 | drath | torpor: ok, fetch the source, run ./bootstrap |
| 17:46.10 | torpor | i have that |
| 17:46.14 | torpor | 203 |
| 17:46.28 | drath | torpor: ./configure --enable-ftd2232_libftdi |
| 17:46.33 | drath | make sure you have libftdi-dev installed |
| 17:46.42 | torpor | yup |
| 17:47.05 | drath | ah, --enable-ft2232_libftdi |
| 17:47.40 | torpor | 204 is an okay version? |
| 17:47.51 | torpor | building now .. |
| 17:47.56 | drath | yeah |
| 17:49.06 | torpor | spir@spir:~/neo$ openocd -v |
| 17:49.06 | torpor | Info: openocd.c:82 main(): Open On-Chip Debugger (2006-08-01 12:00 CEST) |
| 17:49.06 | torpor | openocd: invalid option -- v |
| 17:49.06 | torpor | Info: configuration.c:50 configuration_output_handler(): Command ftdi2232_layout not found |
| 17:49.09 | torpor | Info: configuration.c:50 configuration_output_handler(): Command ft2232_device_desc not found |
| 17:49.12 | torpor | Error: ftdi2232.c:562 ftdi2232_init(): unable to open ftdi device: unable to claim usb device. Make sure ftdi_sio is unloaded! |
| 17:49.18 | torpor | sorry for the paste - can't reach pastebin at the moment. |
| 17:49.32 | drath | that's still the old version |
| 17:49.49 | drath | 2006-08-01 - 15 months... |
| 17:50.10 | torpor | src/openocd -v |
| 17:50.12 | torpor | Info: openocd.c:93 main(): Open On-Chip Debugger (2007-09-05 09:00 CEST) |
| 17:51.18 | drath | openocd doesn't take -v as an argument - "-d" selects maximum debug output, -dN set's debug level N |
| 17:51.37 | torpor | yeah |
| 17:51.39 | torpor | i see that ow |
| 17:51.42 | torpor | okay here we go: |
| 17:52.27 | torpor | http://rafb.net/p/pFz18A46.html |
| 17:52.28 | torpor | checkit |
| 17:52.33 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej_ (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:53.27 | torpor | progress:http://rafb.net/p/zKVwnC63.html |
| 17:53.28 | drath | ft2232_device_desc "Debug Board for Neo1973 A" - remove the " A", but that not your only problem |
| 17:53.45 | drath | ah, ok, that's good |
| 17:53.56 | drath | did you power the neo? |
| 17:54.04 | torpor | yes |
| 17:54.09 | torpor | no way to tell if its on or not though |
| 17:54.13 | torpor | no bootscreen/etc. |
| 17:54.25 | torpor | checking cables now |
| 17:55.42 | torpor | the problem is both clips on the debug board and on the neo are broken. |
| 17:56.45 | drath | i only know the openocd side of things - can't help you with the neo, sorry |
| 17:56.59 | torpor | ok drath its cool so far anyway |
| 17:57.29 | *** join/#openmoko wolog_ (n=wolog@AOrleans-157-1-27-139.w90-8.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:00.43 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D84A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:04.31 | torpor | okay this part confuses me: |
| 18:04.31 | torpor | Error: jtag.c:1253 jtag_examine_chain(): JTAG communication failure, check connection, JTAG interface, target power etc. |
| 18:04.40 | torpor | could this be because of a wrong ftdi or something? |
| 18:05.53 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravci1 (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
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| 18:08.20 | flexd | is it just me or does JTAG just sound cool? :p, i have no idea how to use it, or what it is, but it sounds cool doesnt it? :/ |
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| 18:12.54 | torpor | godamnit |
| 18:12.56 | torpor | no go |
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| 18:21.46 | mypapit | godamit too |
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| 18:24.37 | torpor | honestly this is the crappiest thing i've ever seen. |
| 18:24.46 | torpor | how were these connectors expected to be useful? |
| 18:25.24 | don-o | flexd: I2C sounds cooler |
| 18:25.39 | flexd | yeah |
| 18:25.41 | flexd | sort of |
| 18:25.47 | flexd | but |
| 18:26.13 | flexd | if someone made the python module python-i2c_jtag |
| 18:26.16 | flexd | it would be awsomeness? |
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| 18:30.06 | torpor | okay i am officially out of the openmoko project. |
| 18:30.16 | torpor | with a bricked gta01, and a busted debug board that does not work, i cannot continue. |
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| 18:31.05 | eonj | :( |
| 18:31.45 | torpor | indeed |
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| 18:33.36 | balrog-kun | openmoko is not tied to gta01 |
| 18:34.54 | torpor | yeah but i have no opennmoko capable devices. |
| 18:35.36 | balrog-kun | inf act for the first like 5 months none of the developers had an openmoko device |
| 18:35.47 | torpor | oh wow that is some consolation. |
| 18:35.56 | balrog-kun | PC is an openmoko capable device |
| 18:36.04 | eonj | can you get new connectors? |
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| 18:39.12 | balrog-kun | torpor: what's wrong with your u-boot? |
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| 18:40.16 | matsimoto | Hi out there, are there examples on how to make transparent windows with gtk+ and openmoko ? |
| 18:40.25 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 18:40.53 | torpor | balrog-kun: turn te gta01 on, nothing happens. zip. zilch .. nada.. |
| 18:41.14 | Ghiottone | torpor, that's bad news. what about the debug board? |
| 18:41.50 | torpor | the debug board sucks ass |
| 18:42.05 | balrog-kun | torpor: the backlight doesn't react? |
| 18:42.11 | torpor | nothing |
| 18:42.40 | balrog-kun | there's a high chance the battery is flat |
| 18:42.57 | torpor | no balrog-kun i was burning a new u-boot. |
| 18:43.01 | torpor | had been using the neo all day |
| 18:43.04 | torpor | it was plugged into usb |
| 18:43.11 | torpor | i bricked uboot |
| 18:43.14 | torpor | got my debug board out. |
| 18:43.19 | balrog-kun | yeah, then probably battery is flat |
| 18:43.23 | torpor | *BOTH* clips are busted on the neo and the debug board. |
| 18:43.59 | torpor | balrog-kun: why would the battery be flat if its plugged into usb? |
| 18:44.53 | balrog-kun | torpor: because when you use it, it draws more power than the usb gives (apparently, as mine never works longer than some two hours when plugged in and PCF50606 inf ast-charge mode) |
| 18:45.20 | borg_ | torpor: i dont know why, but its definitely possible |
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| 19:46.22 | bmk789 | the makefile builds all the latest updates to openmoko doesnt it? |
| 19:47.00 | ljp | if youdo make update first |
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| 19:47.16 | bmk789 | ok thanks |
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| 19:51.17 | bmk789 | "make flash-qemu-local" is trying to use $PATH instead of the directory its in, how do i set it to use . ? |
| 19:52.06 | edistar | I have a build error if I run 'make qemu', can someone help me? I get: "Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' make sure they're in $PATH |
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| 19:53.03 | bmk789 | edistar: thats the exact same thing i have |
| 19:53.14 | edistar | bmk789: do you know why? |
| 19:53.19 | bmk789 | not yet |
| 19:53.24 | edistar | ok :) |
| 19:54.58 | bmk789 | edistar: are you on ubuntu? |
| 19:55.13 | edistar | bmk789: no, debian testing |
| 19:55.25 | bmk789 | well install the netpbm package |
| 19:55.40 | bmk789 | i would think debian testing would have it |
| 19:56.36 | bmk789 | that should fix it |
| 19:57.47 | edistar | it fixes that problem, but not the next :( |
| 19:58.28 | bmk789 | edistar: what now? |
| 19:58.38 | edistar | a long error message |
| 20:00.44 | edistar | http://nopaste.org/p/aNZzxmX6Q |
| 20:02.14 | bmk789 | did you run make openmoko-devel-image first? |
| 20:02.48 | edistar | no, I did what it said on the wiki |
| 20:02.56 | edistar | well.. maybe I ran that first.. would it be bad? |
| 20:03.38 | bmk789 | well you need to run openmoko-devel-image before the flash-qemu-local |
| 20:04.14 | edistar | I'm just running make qemu, the automatic thing that it said in the wiki |
| 20:04.33 | doc|home | heh, so, after all that talk about nokias, I wake up and what's on the mailing list? someone talking about nokias :) |
| 20:05.07 | edistar | hehe ;) |
| 20:05.11 | edistar | doc|home: decided yet? |
| 20:05.25 | bmk789 | edistar: did you already "make setup"? |
| 20:05.56 | edistar | bmk789: yes |
| 20:06.13 | edistar | but then I saw that make qemu would do everything automatically, so I just did make qemu |
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| 20:07.11 | edistar | but now I'm make'ing openmoko-devel-image |
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| 20:10.19 | edistar | bmk789: why wouldn't 'make qemu' work? |
| 20:10.43 | bmk789 | idk im really new to this |
| 20:10.59 | edistar | bmk789: ok |
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| 20:11.10 | doc|home | edistar: I want one :( |
| 20:11.18 | edistar | doc|home: no wonder, I want one too! |
| 20:11.25 | doc|home | just for coolness :) |
| 20:12.18 | edistar | yeah ;P I have a 770 though, so it wouldn't be feasible for me to get one |
| 20:12.37 | edistar | if I get a gta-02 anyway with gps |
| 20:12.40 | doc|home | fair enough :) |
| 20:12.47 | doc|home | yeah, if I had a gta02 I'd be happy :) |
| 20:13.07 | edistar | doc|home: it will come in january, I am an optimist |
| 20:13.11 | doc|home | hehe |
| 20:13.22 | edistar | doc|home: it will come in january, I am an optimist |
| 20:13.28 | edistar | sry |
| 20:13.29 | doc|home | say it three times |
| 20:13.36 | doc|home | then it'll definitely happen |
| 20:13.37 | edistar | doc|home: it will come in january, I am an optimist |
| 20:13.39 | edistar | ;) |
| 20:13.40 | doc|home | hehehe |
| 20:13.47 | edistar | now it will :) |
| 20:13.50 | bmk789_ | has anyone seen this error? http://pastebin.com/m5d2507fa |
| 20:14.46 | woglinde | bmk no |
| 20:14.57 | woglinde | did you try qemu-neo from svn? |
| 20:15.16 | bmk789_ | this is with the makefile, with everything updated |
| 20:15.30 | bmk789_ | havent tried anything else |
| 20:15.35 | edistar | had that yesterday |
| 20:15.40 | woglinde | hm okay |
| 20:16.05 | edistar | bmk789: don't know why :* |
| 20:16.06 | edistar | :( |
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| 20:17.54 | bmk789_ | should i try svn? |
| 20:17.56 | edistar | laptop has reached 110 degrees celcius, I should have thought twice about starting to compile.. |
| 20:19.01 | bmk789_ | boil water with it |
| 20:21.15 | edistar | some tea :) |
| 20:21.31 | woglinde | bmk789 you can try svn but you have to fix an error for omap |
| 20:21.42 | woglinde | there is one file missing from upstream |
| 20:23.23 | zash | gaah |
| 20:24.39 | zash | a don't-do-this-on-a-phone-ist: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/technology/personaltech/08pogue.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin |
| 20:25.27 | bmk789_ | so does the gta01 have tri-band without 850mhz but the gta02 will have quad-band? |
| 20:26.09 | edistar | bmk789: no, it will not have quad |
| 20:26.28 | bmk789_ | noooooooooo |
| 20:27.04 | edistar | it will though maybe have 850/1800/1900 if fic manages to design a board quickly |
| 20:27.25 | bmk789_ | that would be good |
| 20:27.53 | edistar | bmk789_: exactly, that was what the 3 day rant on the mailinglist was about too |
| 20:28.07 | bmk789_ | ah i see |
| 20:28.53 | bmk789_ | half my state is 850 but im right on the line so having that 850 band would be very comforting |
| 20:29.53 | edistar | yes |
| 20:30.11 | edistar | well, I only need 900 :) |
| 20:31.33 | bmk789_ | this is because theres no open quad band chipsets i assume? |
| 20:32.08 | edistar | bmk789_: no, the gsm chip supports quad, but their board doesn't |
| 20:32.08 | mjr | no, it's not because of that |
| 20:32.08 | edistar | circuit |
| 20:33.15 | edistar | bmk789_: don't you get the mailinglists? |
| 20:33.20 | bmk789_ | so the mainboard makes it impossible to use quad band, it couldnt be hacked or anything |
| 20:33.28 | bmk789_ | i just subscribed yesterday |
| 20:33.39 | bmk789_ | and i havent seen any archives |
| 20:33.40 | edistar | bmk789_: no, the chip supports is |
| 20:33.40 | edistar | it |
| 20:33.49 | edistar | bmk789_: ok |
| 20:34.31 | edistar | in a way it's FICs fault, they could have designed it for + 850 support |
| 20:34.34 | sladen | bmk789_: the current board layout makes it possible to use 3 out of 4 bands, with those bands being set in stone by filters that are soldered on |
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| 20:35.04 | bmk789_ | ah |
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| 20:35.19 | sladen | edistar: it's nobody's *fault*. It's just something that happens... like missing a ';' off the end of your source code when compiling. Eventuall you find out |
| 20:35.42 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@166.129.157.202) |
| 20:35.44 | sladen | even if it's not as soon as you would have liked to have picked the issue up |
| 20:36.44 | roh | wel.. whos fault it was is difficult to find our, even for someone inside ;) .. and not helping. it happened and we need to find a way to handle it. and first was stating the facts as soon as they got clear while researching the problem |
| 20:37.00 | roh | hey Michael |
| 20:37.34 | edistar | well... I hope they fix it cause I want to have us people helping ;) |
| 20:38.31 | roh | edistar we are currently evaluating if a us-triband option or redesigning to quad is more feasible. |
| 20:38.50 | sladen | edistar: the beauty of this project is there is no "they", there is only "us", all, together, collectively. |
| 20:39.10 | doc|home | "we" want a neo |
| 20:39.13 | doc|home | NOW! |
| 20:39.14 | doc|home | ;) |
| 20:40.28 | edistar | yes |
| 20:41.07 | woglinde | lol |
| 20:41.09 | edistar | roh: but the version now will be released soon, europe people aren't kept waiting alltough it would work? |
| 20:42.46 | roh | i don't know yet.. first we need to make sure all parts work. |
| 20:44.05 | doc|home | sladen: erm, it sounds to me like it's someone's fault. I mean, who thinks "yep, 3 filters, that's enough!" :/ |
| 20:44.38 | torpor | roh: i bricked my gta01 today. my debug board doesn't work (connectors are busted). is there someone i can send my neo to, to get it debricked? i really want to get my app released in the next few weeks, so i'm quite desperate about it .. |
| 20:44.46 | mjr | someone probably who isn't designing a phone for the US market |
| 20:45.05 | mjr | it's probably legacy... |
| 20:45.41 | mjr | now, that it carried over to gta02 unnoticed was the bigger blunder |
| 20:46.11 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:46.22 | sladen | there's two solutions, (a) "Sue Sue Sue Sue, it MUST be *somebody's* fault". Or the more constructive (b) "It happened, lets tell people, and collectively work out how t fix it for the next hardware rev". I'll leave you to guess which will deliver the bug fix faster |
| 20:46.40 | sladen | mjr: ...shows the number of US-based Neo users ;-) |
| 20:46.43 | mjr | indeed |
| 20:46.56 | doc|home | sladen: suing? |
| 20:46.58 | doc|home | ;) |
| 20:47.25 | mjr | sladen, there were some complaints around here, though, and the 3G sim issue probably masked the thing also |
| 20:47.49 | doc|home | so, is there a current road map for the board wrt this? I mean, when would we be looking at a proper quad band board? |
| 20:48.03 | mjr | doc|home, read roh's lips |
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| 20:48.24 | doc|home | ah, ok, sorry, hadn't seen that |
| 20:49.33 | anrp | in the us, it would be sue worthy |
| 20:49.36 | anrp | misrepresentation of product |
| 20:49.50 | edistar | anrp: come on... |
| 20:49.51 | torpor | who cares as long as it gets sorted out. |
| 20:49.59 | doc|home | edistar: he's right |
| 20:50.07 | doc|home | it was advertised as a quad band phone :/ |
| 20:50.11 | edistar | but it's rediculous |
| 20:50.11 | sladen | that'd be comic if people had also got them through customs as "non-functioning prototype" |
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| 20:53.00 | anrp | its not really a prototype, hardware wise |
| 20:53.07 | eonj | it was quite clear that gta01 was for developers though, i don't think a suit would have a case if at some points you couldn't even dial a phone number... |
| 20:53.12 | anrp | not the buyable rev, at least |
| 20:53.36 | anrp | that doesn't really matter .. |
| 20:53.47 | anrp | the only obvious out i can think of is if it was sold as-is |
| 20:53.51 | mjr | wtf with the suing talk? Return the damn thing. |
| 20:53.55 | anrp | i don't remember if it was |
| 20:53.58 | eonj | for real lol |
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| 20:54.13 | eonj | its a gta01, how many would some1 have to buy to justify the cost of a lawsuit |
| 20:54.14 | anrp | i don't think anyone intends to |
| 20:54.17 | anrp | just commenting on the validity |
| 20:54.50 | eonj | altho this does kind of suck... might delay my christmas present :( |
| 20:55.50 | anrp | you couldn't get any damages though since it was sold as development hardware and it would be impossible to suffer harm from the lack of 850, fic's liability would probably be limited to the price of the phone |
| 20:56.08 | anrp | ... just thinking out loud though |
| 20:56.16 | anrp | this is more a comment on the us legal system i guess ~_~ |
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| 20:56.30 | mjr | let's not go there :] |
| 20:58.04 | edistar | exactly... |
| 21:00.21 | edistar | I am looking forward to my device since about 1 year now ;) |
| 21:01.26 | edistar | s/since/for |
| 21:01.26 | roh | well.. i dunno about the legal yadda yada, especially not in the us, but i have a glimpse of a idea how this happend at all. |
| 21:02.42 | edistar | roh: tell |
| 21:03.33 | roh | its quite easy.. the gsm part was done already when the most people started the project. we knew it passes some of the hardest tests (not only fcc) board-wise so it was a good call to build on that. since there was no spec the advertising was propably constructed by looking at the first page of the manual which says quadband.. what got lost is a few hundred pages away and its 'only when used in this and that configuration. |
| 21:04.00 | roh | also mjr is probably right and the 3g-issue masked this |
| 21:04.22 | doc|home | yeah, but did no one on the hardware side look at the site and think "er, this isn't right"? :| |
| 21:04.48 | roh | the 3g-issue is actually a regression in the ti stuff, which now finally got fixed. we just have to find a reasonable way to get the firmware flashed. (well.. we have a tool , but we cannot distribute it since its ti's tool) |
| 21:04.50 | edistar | doc|home: thats a thing that can't be changed.. |
| 21:06.12 | edistar | doc|home: doc|home: it is a quad chip |
| 21:06.15 | edistar | isn't it? |
| 21:06.21 | doc|home | yep |
| 21:06.27 | doc|home | just the board's not laid out correctly |
| 21:06.39 | edistar | is it that hard to change the board? |
| 21:06.48 | roh | doc|home a gsm phone is really complex and openmoko is a small and new company. most things happen in small teams and as i said the gsm was inherited, so nobody questioned the gsm hard enough to take the docs from ti and the schems to compare line by line |
| 21:07.13 | edistar | well... luckily someone noticed before the gta-02's where shipped! |
| 21:07.23 | doc|home | edistar: it'd have to go back to redesign, then be changed, then get fcc'd |
| 21:07.29 | roh | edistar the baseband arm/dsp combo can do quad. it needs a fitting mux and 4 filters for that. |
| 21:07.29 | edistar | doc|home: oh |
| 21:07.48 | roh | edistar what we have is the standard triband mux and 3 filters. |
| 21:07.53 | edistar | roh: ok |
| 21:08.44 | edistar | I wan't a triband phone, I don't care about the fourth frequency.. so I hope the triband phone will be shipped anyway |
| 21:09.35 | doc|home | me too, I think it should work here |
| 21:09.35 | roh | so now we are evaluating fitting 850mhz instead of 900mhz filters and do a recalibration. if that works we could build gta02-eu and gta02-us without board changes and would have nearly 100% gurantee to pass fcc immediately in both variants |
| 21:09.55 | edistar | cool, that would be a good solution for the beginnin |
| 21:09.56 | edistar | g |
| 21:09.57 | cjb_ie | roh: ooh, that's very cunning. |
| 21:10.06 | roh | but if we do that or redesign to real quad is not my call and we will see after testing a triband-us variant. |
| 21:10.13 | cjb_ie | just a few discretes different then? |
| 21:10.14 | doc|home | roh: will the gta02-us work at all in europe? I'm in canada but Irish so will be going back every once in a while :) |
| 21:10.16 | bmk789_ | would that be cheaper than changing to a full quad model that coudl be shipped anywhere? |
| 21:10.55 | mjr | doc|home, a gta02-us would work similarly in the europe as the current model in the US |
| 21:11.00 | roh | doc|home well.. without 900mhz it depends on your carrier. wouldnt want that in germany ;) (900mhz is working better here indoors) |
| 21:11.12 | doc|home | but there's still the two other freqs |
| 21:11.32 | mjr | larger cities in many places afaik have 1800 coverage |
| 21:11.34 | doc|home | bah, 850less works for me :) |
| 21:11.44 | cjb_ie | doc|home: i believe the irish networks use 900 and 1900 |
| 21:11.53 | mjr | doc|home, indeed, I'm also lucky enough not to care about 850 |
| 21:12.07 | roh | bmk789_ from my view it looks like a lot less engineering work, so we would save time, a lot |
| 21:12.12 | cjb_ie | doc|home: they're certainly not 900-only |
| 21:12.18 | doc|home | oh, hey cjb, I think I recognise you vaguely from ilug irc |
| 21:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=chatzill@U05c9.u.pppool.de) |
| 21:12.29 | roh | cjb_ie ireland has 1900? i though thats also us-only (or nearly) |
| 21:12.30 | doc|home | (you probably don't know me) |
| 21:12.40 | cjb_ie | roh: i may be confusing 1800 and 1900. |
| 21:12.47 | mjr | roh, yeah, I'd say you should just get it out easy and fast and concentrate on the software |
| 21:12.52 | doc|home | ebel: hehe |
| 21:13.09 | roh | most of europe is 900/1800. 1900 was made for the us since 1800 was already blocked there. then came 850 due to 900 also blocked. |
| 21:13.18 | doc|home | cjb_ie: in either case, there'd be tri band anyway |
| 21:13.46 | eonj | is there a place to see coverage maps of different frequencies? |
| 21:13.50 | mwester-laptop | <mjr> wtf with the suing talk? Return the damn thing. |
| 21:13.54 | cjb_ie | doc|home: so, yeah, one could view the -us or -eu suffix as an optimisation rather than an exclusion |
| 21:13.59 | doc|home | cjb_ie: yep |
| 21:14.08 | mwester-laptop | Yep, except FIC/openmoko doesn't have that option just yet. |
| 21:14.12 | eonj | and which bands does china use? |
| 21:14.13 | ebel | cjb_ie, I'm rarely on ilug IRC. Didn't know about #ubuntu-ie |
| 21:15.45 | edistar | roh: so when would you say the gta-02 might be ready? |
| 21:17.04 | edistar | the openmoko chaps should have a status page on openmoko.org/status where they post their thoughts about the release every day |
| 21:18.18 | cjb_ie | flexd: ENOTAGIRAFFE |
| 21:18.58 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@81.80-202-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:19.01 | flexd | damn you cjb_ie damn you! :( |
| 21:20.03 | cjb_ie | flexd: hey, you started it |
| 21:20.14 | edistar | this channel is fun :P |
| 21:20.29 | doc|home | edistar: planet.openmoko.org |
| 21:20.37 | doc|home | although not everyone says styff |
| 21:20.39 | doc|home | *stuff |
| 21:20.43 | roh | edistar i dunno. gta02 depends on still to many things |
| 21:20.46 | edistar | doc|home: and not enough for me :P |
| 21:21.01 | roh | edistar but be assured we will tell as soon as we know more. currently its just guessing |
| 21:21.13 | edistar | ok :) |
| 21:21.19 | doc|home | edistar: yeah :) |
| 21:21.21 | edistar | roh: then please guess :P |
| 21:21.47 | doc|home | edistar: the guess is december |
| 21:21.49 | LarstiQ | edistar: you've read what roh said here on irc the last hour or so? |
| 21:22.14 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro|isBack (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 21:23.01 | cjb_ie | depending how cramped the board is already, even just the layout could take a while |
| 21:23.10 | cjb_ie | then there's a couple of weeks to get boards made |
| 21:23.17 | cjb_ie | and maybe a week or two to get them stuffed |
| 21:23.20 | edistar | LarstiQ: yes |
| 21:23.36 | cjb_ie | and that's if one is paying $lots to have things made and stuffed quickly |
| 21:23.45 | cjb_ie | multilayer PCBs ain't cheap, especially in a hurry |
| 21:23.46 | doc|home | yeah :/ |
| 21:24.26 | cjb_ie | 8 layer double eurocard in a week with controlled impedance can cost around 300 eur apiece in small quantities |
| 21:24.49 | cjb_ie | (small quantities being 5-10 ish) |
| 21:24.52 | anrp | assembly is $$ if you get it done outside .. and if you do it inside, the failure rate can be ~_~ |
| 21:25.17 | cjb_ie | well, the setup is the $$ish part |
| 21:25.25 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.246) |
| 21:25.28 | anrp | true |
| 21:25.31 | cjb_ie | if you can reuse most of the setup from the previous version of the board, that helps a lot |
| 21:25.35 | *** part/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CF076.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:25.45 | cjb_ie | but then you're relying on your board stuffers being very very good with diff |
| 21:26.06 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 21:26.11 | mwester-laptop | Folks, reality is that the GTA02-Euro will be out, and *if* the GTA02-US is real, it will follow in 3 months at the soonest. Possibly longer if the FCC app takes time. So how many of the US developers/contributors on the project will stick around? Or will this become "euromoko" instead of "openmoko"? |
| 21:26.17 | anrp | or you get the classical "oops" |
| 21:26.18 | anrp | ;o |
| 21:26.41 | anrp | and then the blame game starts! |
| 21:26.43 | mwester-laptop | Fabrication time is detail stuff, and assumes commitment by FIC/openmoko as well as commitment by the market. |
| 21:26.48 | anrp | that's always fun to watch... not so fun to play |
| 21:26.53 | mwester-laptop | Right now, neither is assured. |
| 21:27.24 | cjb_ie | anrp: when i was doing complex board layouts i had the luxury of being on site with the board stuffers when they were doing setup, that saved a lot of cockups |
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| 21:30.19 | edistar | well, good luck then! |
| 21:30.30 | mwester-laptop | And regarding the "fault" thing discussed earlier -- the issue is not so much that people want someone to blame, it is that people want to be assured that whatever permitted such a horrible error to occur and linger so long won't happen again. So, openmoko: where's the public statement on what happened, and why it won't happen again? |
| 21:30.31 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-163-182.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 21:32.19 | edistar | well, I think there are some |
| 21:32.34 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@134.219.165.119) |
| 21:33.13 | roh | mwester-laptop well.. if we would listen to that guys all day you all would know nothing and all development would happend behind closed doors.. we would not want that either, do we? ;) |
| 21:33.22 | edistar | you can never say if something like this will happen again.. |
| 21:33.47 | edistar | roh: also you'd never get finished with anything |
| 21:33.50 | flexd | closedmoko? :p |
| 21:33.51 | roh | exactly. nad every real developer who is honest will second that. |
| 21:34.28 | roh | edistar i meant the 'you can never say if something like this will happen again..' |
| 21:34.41 | edistar | yes |
| 21:34.58 | roh | edistar openmoko would not be open. and what would be bad and not helping building what we all want i think |
| 21:35.14 | doc|home | well, open hardware may have helped prevent this, but that's a whole other discussion :) |
| 21:35.35 | *** join/#openmoko mortenlysgaard (n=mortenly@ti500720a080-7886.bb.online.no) |
| 21:35.42 | roh | doc|home when you take a peek inside the gsm market you know thats not possible at all. |
| 21:35.47 | doc|home | I know :/ |
| 21:36.39 | roh | either the gsm schems stay closed or there is no phone, so i'd rather ignore that blackbox. atleast it has its own cpu and we need no binaries for the serial we dont have the source to |
| 21:36.40 | mwester-laptop | Who said anything about open hardware? |
| 21:36.45 | edistar | well.. as long as I have a device sometime in spring (up to march/april) I will certainly buy one |
| 21:36.47 | mwester-laptop | I certainly didn't. |
| 21:37.13 | roh | edistar thats quite sure. propably even earlier. |
| 21:37.18 | edistar | ok :) |
| 21:38.07 | edistar | can't wait to show a friend of mine with his iphone that my phone has a higher res and runs linux, i.e. having a much higher potential :) |
| 21:38.17 | doc|home | mwester-laptop: came from development behind closed doors, but as I said, a whole other discussion |
| 21:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko Tieku (n=Joe@cpc3-leed14-0-0-cust462.leed.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:39.08 | mwester-laptop | doc|home: I don't understand what you're trying to say. I'm just saying that FIC/Openmoko has obligations to meet, and that they have failed to do so. |
| 21:40.02 | mwester-laptop | If they wish to retain credibility beyond a cluster of openmoko fanboys, they must do what every other company is required to do: explain how such a misrepresentation won't happen again. |
| 21:40.07 | mwester-laptop | That's all. |
| 21:40.11 | mwester-laptop | It's so very simple. |
| 21:40.25 | unique | I have a question: Does the GTA01 and the GTA02 have the same gsm chip? |
| 21:40.37 | mjr | unique, yes |
| 21:40.38 | mwester-laptop | Yes, unfortunately |
| 21:41.00 | edistar | why unfortunately? |
| 21:41.14 | unique | ok, I was just wondering, because in the community use it is only talked about the GTA01 |
| 21:41.46 | mwester-laptop | edistar: TI is as secretive as broadcom, and has as many lawyers. |
| 21:42.08 | edistar | okey.. not nice |
| 21:42.26 | edistar | unique: the community only has the gta-01.. |
| 21:43.31 | unique | @edistar, I know that, I just thought that because they only mentioned the GTA01 the GTA02 maybe has a different gsm chip |
| 21:43.55 | edistar | unique: always better to ask :) |
| 21:44.08 | Tieku | unique, where are you reading about the GSM chip from? |
| 21:44.32 | unique | edistar: that's what this channel is for, I guess... |
| 21:45.00 | edistar | unique: exactly :) |
| 21:45.03 | unique | Tieku: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 21:48.06 | unique | edistar: as I'm not living in the US I could say I don't care about the gsm problems, but y'know when they say quadband it would be nice to have it, but however I'll buy a GTA02 when it is out |
| 21:48.33 | edistar | unique: where do you come from? |
| 21:48.42 | unique | germany |
| 21:48.59 | edistar | me too |
| 21:49.06 | edistar | well, border to NL |
| 21:49.30 | ferric | mwester-laptop: the more I think of it, the more it seems that this is a fanboy or atleast limited availability platform. I doubt FIC cares that much at this point if the US release is (and will be) delayed |
| 21:49.39 | LarstiQ | ensche.de? |
| 21:49.45 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:49.59 | edistar | ferric: are you serious? or course fic cares |
| 21:50.16 | ferric | edistar: why's that? |
| 21:50.17 | unique | edistar: nice I live at the moment quite in the middle of germany |
| 21:51.16 | ScaredyCat | cheese |
| 21:51.30 | edistar | ferric: they want to make money and they can sell quite a lot of devices in the US |
| 21:51.52 | mwester-laptop | ferric: I agree with you. I think that FIC/Openmoko has a split personality, with a business side that just wants to pay the bills, and another side that values the community and open-source. These goals conflict. |
| 21:52.04 | mwester-laptop | We (the community) get caught in the "cross-fire" |
| 21:52.49 | eonj | mwester-laptop: didn't you read roh's comments? he explained what and how it happened... |
| 21:53.07 | ScaredyCat | that would explain 01 not 02 |
| 21:53.08 | mwester-laptop | I laid out my reasoning for why it's not likely that FIC/Openmoko would release the gllin GPS driver, and it made certain openmoko people angry. But they couldn't refute any of the logic, and now we still don't have the driver. |
| 21:53.57 | mwester-laptop | eonj: Roh has said nothing about what they have done to fix the communications issues, but I would expect such a statement to come from Sean or his level |
| 21:54.06 | ScaredyCat | most people use the muffin driver instead ;) |
| 21:54.32 | anrp | muffin? |
| 21:54.37 | eonj | you heard about it on the mailing list and irc channel, what more do you need? |
| 21:55.29 | roh | mwester-laptop please take note that what we communicate to you may be something in a different language than makes sense on a list like announce. |
| 21:55.34 | mwester-laptop | eonj: The same I would expect from any company with which I do business. An official statement describing the problem, the remedies available, and a guarantee of a timeline for same. |
| 21:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko mortenlysgaard (n=mortenly@ti500720a080-7886.bb.online.no) |
| 21:55.47 | eonj | i see |
| 21:55.49 | roh | you seem to be technically qualified, but there a loads of people who are not and get confused by too much detail. |
| 21:56.06 | mwester-laptop | roh: I'll take any language. |
| 21:56.06 | roh | thats why we place the details somethere else than generic foo |
| 21:56.19 | flexd | im sort of confused, what's being argued about now? :/ |
| 21:56.28 | mwester-laptop | I have emails in about this issue to openmoko.com, with nothing yet. |
| 21:56.28 | edistar | roh: although I would like some more details too, and if I get confused I'd just ask publicly and someone else will answer me |
| 21:58.55 | roh | edistar well.. just ask me ;) i will at least tell you if i know or who could. |
| 21:59.13 | edistar | roh: yes, you do answer, luckily, thanks :) |
| 21:59.14 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:59.32 | mwester-laptop | Regardless, IMO the release of the GPS driver, and/or the release of the GSM firmware fix, in the next week, would go a long way to assuring people that the 850 issue won't also end up waiting forever. |
| 22:00.24 | roh | mwester-laptop ive read multiple messages that we are still kicking some people about the gps issue, and ive also not let go of it. |
| 22:03.13 | mwester-laptop | I know, I also have read this. But at some point results are required. I congratulate people who work hard on a problem for trying hard, but at some point the problem must be solved. |
| 22:03.46 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-15-62.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 22:03.47 | edistar | mwester-laptop: some things just take time? legal issues or so, if the openmoko people say their doing their best, why not believe them? |
| 22:04.27 | mwester-laptop | edistar: because at some point, when there are multiple open issues that have waited for months and months, a certain amount of skepticism is warranted. |
| 22:04.40 | edistar | mwester-laptop: maybe, but there were updates.. |
| 22:04.47 | edistar | mwester-laptop: do you have a gta-01? |
| 22:04.51 | mwester-laptop | updates, but no results. |
| 22:04.56 | mwester-laptop | edistar: yes. |
| 22:05.26 | edistar | no surprise then that you want a driver.. if I were in the same position I might get a bit grumpy aswel |
| 22:05.35 | roh | well.. i need to leave you alone now.. my food needs attention |
| 22:06.00 | mwester-laptop | Our football team is trying their best, and we get updates weekly from the coach and players. But that doesn't change the fact that they have not been able to accomplish their goals. Why is FIC/Openmoko any different? |
| 22:06.08 | unique | edistar: you seem to be quite well informed about the OpenMoko, so reading the community update makes me wonder a little bit. It wont be possible to use opengl es right from the start altought the 3d chip provides 3d acceleration? |
| 22:06.29 | edistar | unique: no, their not working on an opengl driver |
| 22:07.00 | mwester-laptop | edistar: I want only what FIC/Openmoko committed that they would deliver: a phone that was designed to be quadband, a driver for the GPS, and a fix for the GSM firmware. All other engineering bugs and flaws are as they are, and FIC has not committed to fixing those. |
| 22:07.04 | edistar | unique: raster said something about the chip only supporting 512x512 pixel opengl acceleration |
| 22:07.12 | edistar | mwester-laptop: yes, I understand |
| 22:07.49 | edistar | unique: so obviously you'd have to halve the resolution in order to efficiently use the chip |
| 22:08.00 | mjr | edistar, that's workaroundable, though of course it'd be a lot of work too |
| 22:08.00 | SpeedEvil | well... |
| 22:08.01 | unique | edistar: 512x512 is better than nothing |
| 22:08.35 | edistar | unique: how will you fit it on the screen? at least rasterman decided that 2d accel is more important |
| 22:08.41 | unique | edistar: I was very happy when I first heard about 3d hardware acceleration, so I guess I could live with 512x512 |
| 22:08.42 | SpeedEvil | Is it 512*512 or can it do 480*546? |
| 22:08.43 | edistar | which it is, cause that's the common usage |
| 22:08.54 | edistar | unique: it will come sometime I think |
| 22:08.56 | mjr | anyway, the 2d _is_ more important |
| 22:09.32 | SpeedEvil | 93 pixels is a reasonable header/footer. |
| 22:09.45 | edistar | unique: you want compiz_fusion on the neo? |
| 22:09.48 | unique | yes 2d is important, but if you have a 3d chip in it, it would be nice to "use" it, but without a driver I think it could be a little difficult ;) |
| 22:09.54 | edistar | SpeedEvil: its 512x512 |
| 22:09.55 | mjr | SpeedEvil, he said 512x512 so I'd take that as the value... |
| 22:10.12 | mjr | that's the max size of a rendering buffer |
| 22:10.13 | unique | edistar: no, not yet ;) |
| 22:10.19 | oc2k1__ | I could helpt to write a driver, but without any informations about the chip it#s impossible |
| 22:10.33 | edistar | unique: altough that would be really cool :P |
| 22:10.46 | edistar | with the accelerometers you could automatically turn the cube.. |
| 22:11.20 | unique | edistar: yes that would be really awesome |
| 22:11.24 | SpeedEvil | It's a pity in a way that custom chips are so damn expensive. |
| 22:11.29 | oc2k1__ | the accelerometers are only a poor replacement for joypad keys :P |
| 22:11.57 | SpeedEvil | A ASIC with mp3/mpg/avi/limited 2d accel would be nice |
| 22:12.02 | edistar | well, there are so few phones with VGA, it was to be expected that this chip doesn't fully support VGA |
| 22:12.32 | oc2k1__ | the "data sheet" says it supports VGA |
| 22:12.41 | oc2k1__ | or better the page |
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| 22:13.08 | unique | guys I have to go, have a nice day / night / morning wherever you are |
| 22:13.19 | mjr | oc2k1__, and it's true |
| 22:13.42 | mjr | just not the _whole_ truth |
| 22:13.55 | edistar | unique: good night |
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| 22:26.49 | torpor | i've bricked my gta01 |
| 22:27.02 | torpor | and the gta02 looks like its going to be bollocks. |
| 22:27.04 | torpor | what to do. |
| 22:27.10 | torpor | i know: i'll buy an iphone!!!!! |
| 22:27.11 | *** part/#openmoko torpor (n=torpor@zone79a.de) |
| 22:27.41 | XorA|gone | thats a man in a bad mood |
| 22:27.49 | edistar | he just missed a great bashing ;) |
| 22:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:29.07 | CoreDump | why the doesn't he un-brick it |
| 22:29.13 | CoreDump | *the hell |
| 22:29.20 | mjr | he had problems with that as well |
| 22:29.20 | edistar | CoreDump: his debug board is bricked too ;0 |
| 22:29.41 | CoreDump | I had to do it once. Worked OOTB by following the available documentation |
| 22:29.43 | XorA|gone | CoreDump: his FPC connectors broke both GTA01 and debug board ends |
| 22:30.11 | anrp | i hear good things about the iphone D; |
| 22:30.14 | anrp | closed things, but good things |
| 22:30.16 | CoreDump | XorA|gone: sigh |
| 22:30.24 | edistar | anrp: e.g.? |
| 22:30.53 | anrp | ... |
| 22:30.59 | anrp | well, the hype, for one :P |
| 22:31.04 | CoreDump | wasn't the JTAG port available via solder pads as well? |
| 22:31.06 | edistar | thats true |
| 22:31.30 | edistar | CoreDump: you can build your own JTAG port, costs $10 and works quite well |
| 22:32.25 | CoreDump | I really try to avoid JTAG whenever humanly possible ;) |
| 22:33.27 | edistar | me too, not very userfriendly |
| 22:33.37 | edistar | anrp: the only thing I really liked was the browsing |
| 22:34.05 | edistar | zooming etc. |
| 22:35.31 | Tieku | this youtube video of the neo1973 webbrowser. does it play for anyone else? |
| 22:35.40 | Tieku | i tried yesterday with no luck then either.... |
| 22:35.49 | Tieku | http://youtube.com/watch?v=btY2SFVrOsc |
| 22:36.16 | meus | yeah it loads fine |
| 22:36.22 | Tieku | err.... |
| 22:36.25 | Tieku | why me... |
| 22:36.27 | edistar | :P |
| 22:36.31 | Tieku | every other video plays |
| 22:37.24 | Ebbe | Tieku: Works fine for me |
| 22:37.49 | Tieku | Won't even work in a differnet browser. very strange. but thanks for letting me know :) |
| 22:38.01 | Tieku | i take that back - opera has it loading very slowly... |
| 22:38.04 | Tieku | :D |
| 22:39.56 | anrp | jtag is "... not very userfriendly" ? |
| 22:40.12 | cb22 | hehe |
| 22:40.15 | edistar | :P |
| 22:41.09 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 22:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko danielo (n=danne@ua-83-227-157-197.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
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| 22:48.56 | *** part/#openmoko rbs-tito_ (n=tito@host86-128-190-44.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:54.54 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (i=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 22:56.51 | *** part/#openmoko Aztlek (n=lbernal@190.156.49.78) |
| 22:57.37 | edistar | nothing going on here.. |
| 23:00.44 | bmk789_ | ......................... |
| 23:01.53 | edistar | it's monday here :( |
| 23:02.20 | edistar | school in 8 hours... |
| 23:03.57 | cb22 | edistar, school in 6 for me |
| 23:04.04 | edistar | not nice, is it |
| 23:04.38 | edistar | cb22: math, history and dutch, really looking forward :( |
| 23:09.16 | *** join/#openmoko eonj (n=ianj@c-68-35-225-183.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:10.19 | *** join/#openmoko rbs-tito_ (n=tito@host86-128-190-44.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:14.08 | cb22 | i'm writing a maths exam today :/ |
| 23:15.24 | rbs-tito_ | cb22: Writing it or just answering the questions? |
| 23:15.28 | edistar | cb22: good luck then |
| 23:16.34 | edistar | make openmoko-devel-image is telling me database or disk is full, but my disk is only 19% full and has 160gb, anyone have the same problem? |
| 23:17.14 | rbs-tito_ | Has there been much progress on the GPS/Maps front? I think that seems like the most non-FOSS friendly area |
| 23:17.28 | edistar | rbs-tito_: check the navit project |
| 23:17.58 | rbs-tito_ | :O HOw did I miss this? |
| 23:18.37 | rbs-tito_ | Lacking a 3D interface mind |
| 23:18.46 | edistar | yes |
| 23:19.33 | rbs-tito_ | I nearly threw up the other day, my mate bought an iPhone :| |
| 23:20.00 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@60-240-29-193-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:20.16 | edistar | rbs-tito_: well.. maybe there will be an iphonelinux soon :P |
| 23:20.43 | raster | i doubt it |
| 23:20.53 | raster | and even if there is |
| 23:21.02 | raster | large portions of the iphone will not be usable |
| 23:21.02 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Or an OpenMoko port :D But he wouldn't use it, he's become a Mac fanboy since he bought a crappy macbook |
| 23:21.02 | raster | eg |
| 23:21.09 | raster | the gfx chip is an imagination chip |
| 23:21.12 | raster | no specs |
| 23:21.36 | edistar | I like macbooks, when they run debian |
| 23:21.38 | raster | good luck getting graphics to work well with a chip without full specs |
| 23:21.39 | raster | :) |
| 23:22.01 | rbs-tito_ | raster: You would also have to ask why someone would pay such magnitude of cash for a load of closed hardware only to install Linux on it |
| 23:22.11 | edistar | thats true |
| 23:22.22 | edistar | allthough a multitouch screen would tempt me |
| 23:22.24 | doc|home | not to mention gsm |
| 23:22.26 | rbs-tito_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:22.30 | raster | rbs-tito_: indeed |
| 23:22.37 | doc|home | hasn't someone gotten multitouch on OM? |
| 23:22.46 | edistar | doc|home: the screen doesn't support it |
| 23:22.47 | doc|home | or is it the neo that's the limiting factor? |
| 23:22.50 | rbs-tito_ | doc|home: The neo doesn't support it |
| 23:22.50 | doc|home | ah, ok |
| 23:22.50 | raster | edistar: more problems. no specs on how to drive the touchscreen and multitouch |
| 23:22.56 | flexd | raster: if imagination chips actually worked like you imagined it, it would be kinda awsome huh? |
| 23:23.03 | flexd | :D |
| 23:23.05 | doc|home | flexd: hehe |
| 23:23.09 | edistar | raster: I heard that someone had added multitouch to the xserver |
| 23:23.25 | raster | edistar: multipoint input devices yes |
| 23:23.26 | rbs-tito_ | I'm sure it would be fun to build an openmoko with a geforce 8800GTX |
| 23:23.39 | raster | it's always been technically possible with xinput anyway |
| 23:23.49 | raster | so extra tocuhes can be done via extra xinput devices |
| 23:23.54 | edistar | raster: ok, well, I'm not into the details that much |
| 23:23.55 | raster | the problem is you have no DRIVER |
| 23:24.03 | raster | edistar: the problem is in the details |
| 23:24.28 | rbs-tito_ | lol, are we going to be worrying about things like this when we are cruising around with our GTA02 Neos? |
| 23:24.39 | edistar | raster: for me the problem is school :P otherwise I'd know so much more about linux and especially about graphical programming :) |
| 23:24.41 | rbs-tito_ | Or will it work out of the box like the (shudder) iphone? |
| 23:24.53 | *** join/#openmoko DRF (n=d@host81-155-80-83.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:25.09 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: I'm doing my a-levels in the UK. I have to learn Visual Basic :| |
| 23:25.22 | edistar | rbs-tito_: I |
| 23:25.29 | edistar | rbs-tito_: I need to learn java |
| 23:25.49 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: That wouldn't be half as bad as VB. My language of choice is Ruby |
| 23:25.52 | edistar | but some crappy class some teacher wrote and everything is in german, the whole graphical toolkit |
| 23:26.01 | rbs-tito_ | rough |
| 23:26.04 | edistar | rbs-tito_: mine is C and python, depends on what is needed |
| 23:26.26 | rbs-tito_ | I used to use c++, but for what I do ruby is fine |
| 23:26.38 | edistar | rbs-tito_: it's horrible to write a mixture of german and english, german for the graphical bit and english for the framework.. |
| 23:27.04 | rbs-tito_ | Will FIC be selling the Neos? Or is there a company called OpenMoko? |
| 23:27.20 | Kero | rbs-tito_: I have Ruby for OpenMoko :) available for all :) |
| 23:27.24 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: It's horrible to write VB and mae Access databases |
| 23:27.33 | edistar | rbs-tito_: never tried VB :) |
| 23:27.37 | rbs-tito_ | Kero: :O |
| 23:27.43 | rbs-tito_ | Kero: Done anything cool with it? |
| 23:27.49 | oc2k1 | basic comes from hell.... |
| 23:28.15 | edistar | rbs-tito_: wrote one virus for it just for fun and it actually produced a bluescreen at my girlfriends pc :P I sent it to her and didn't tell her what it was... she didn't talk to me for half a day :P |
| 23:28.24 | raster | rbs-tito_: there is a company called openmoko. |
| 23:28.41 | Kero | rbs-tito_: not yet, been busy travelling. I seem to have a slightly less busy two weeks ahead, tho |
| 23:28.41 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: For what? Windows or VB? |
| 23:29.01 | edistar | rbs-tito_: wrote it in VB |
| 23:29.22 | Kero | http://chmeee.dyndns.org/om/ruby/feed/ in case you want it. with gtk2 and glade2 bindings ;) |
| 23:29.36 | edistar | rbs-tito_: well, mixture of VB and some C++ |
| 23:29.43 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Lol, to break a Windows machine you just need to write a few DOS commands into a batch file |
| 23:29.53 | edistar | rbs-tito_: but to produce a bluescreen.. |
| 23:30.07 | rbs-tito_ | Kero: Thanks :) I won't get much use out of it until I get a neo though |
| 23:30.14 | edistar | rbs-tito_: to break linux: rm -rf / |
| 23:30.26 | edistar | Kero: why not? |
| 23:30.34 | edistar | rbs-tito_: but it needs to be in style |
| 23:30.39 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Jah, but you have to be dumb enough to put yoour root password in |
| 23:31.05 | edistar | rbs-tito_: linux users aren't generally.. |
| 23:31.21 | Kero | edistar: I know nothing about e17, never used it. So, ehm, experience and (learning) time :) |
| 23:31.22 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: I dunno, I've got about 6 noobs running Ubuntu |
| 23:31.35 | edistar | actually there are some.. I told a friend once that he should rm -r / one, as a joke, thought he'd understand.. well, he didn't.. |
| 23:31.51 | edistar | he was running ubuntu too... |
| 23:32.00 | edistar | well, till he did what I told him xD |
| 23:32.07 | edistar | was actually quite amusing |
| 23:32.29 | flexd | i like debian |
| 23:32.31 | flexd | it's nice |
| 23:32.38 | flexd | but ubuntu is nice in a diffrent way |
| 23:32.52 | rbs-tito_ | Are FIC actually doing and development work on Openmoko then? Or are they just building the devices? |
| 23:33.03 | edistar | thats true, I like the design, and everything is very smooth, till you reach a point where you break something tiny ;) |
| 23:33.23 | rbs-tito_ | *an |
| 23:33.25 | rbs-tito_ | *any |
| 23:33.29 | edistar | rbs-tito_: I think they pay OpenMoko to develop OM and build the devices |
| 23:33.42 | rbs-tito_ | Cool |
| 23:33.52 | rbs-tito_ | I just changed networks, i'm using Blyk now, it's free |
| 23:34.01 | edistar | rbs-tito_: they even set up openmoko I think :) |
| 23:34.49 | edistar | rbs-tito_: how old are you then? if your doing a-level now.. |
| 23:35.07 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: 17 in Feb |
| 23:35.12 | edistar | cool |
| 23:35.31 | edistar | rbs-tito_: where are you applying for uni? |
| 23:35.47 | rbs-tito_ | When we get our finished and polished Neos are networks going to be arsey about it? Like when you call an ISP and say you are using Linux |
| 23:36.17 | rbs-tito_ | rbs-tito_: No idea yet! Maybe here in Wales, like Cardiff. I'd love to do Computer Systems Engineering at Southampton though |
| 23:36.24 | edistar | rbs-tito_: I don't think they'll mind, they will just not give you all the support.. |
| 23:36.46 | rbs-tito_ | And are we likely to see these popping up in the high street? |
| 23:37.24 | edistar | I have an s75, and when I was in oxford, applying for a place there I bought a sim card.. of course I wanted to make use of gprs :P need to ssh to my server.. so I asked vodafone to send me the gprs settings |
| 23:37.54 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Did you get a place in Oxford? |
| 23:37.59 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-62-216-213-123.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 23:38.11 | edistar | they refused to send them to me as my s75 siemens model wasn't in the database.. till I told them to send me the s65 data as it is identical :rolleyes: I needed to actually tell them it was my risk etc |
| 23:38.21 | edistar | rbs-tito_: yes, conditional offer, AAB |
| 23:38.27 | rbs-tito_ | awesome |
| 23:38.32 | rbs-tito_ | what are you doing for A2 then? |
| 23:38.48 | Kero | hm, booting Neo after two weeks (off) gives me... white screen. |
| 23:38.50 | edistar | rbs-tito_: I go to school in germany, what do you mean with A2? |
| 23:39.10 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Oh right, a2 is the final year of a-level |
| 23:39.20 | rbs-tito_ | Kero: Tried the old mallet? |
| 23:39.26 | edistar | rbs-tito_: well, main subjects are math and english |
| 23:39.30 | Kero | (battery out+in, boots fine now) |
| 23:39.41 | edistar | rbs-tito_: then physics and philosophy |
| 23:39.47 | rbs-tito_ | Kero: Just one of those unexplainable things then :) |
| 23:40.05 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: I think I'm about to fail Maths. I'm doing maths physics history and computing |
| 23:40.22 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (n=kwkw@125-253-17-9.dyn.ver.bigair.net.au) |
| 23:40.38 | edistar | rbs-tito_: I like maths, it's just a bit hard.. lot of practice |
| 23:40.58 | rbs-tito_ | I |
| 23:41.04 | rbs-tito_ | prefer physics |
| 23:41.24 | rbs-tito_ | I might buy a Neo now |
| 23:42.08 | edistar | rbs-tito_: if we had real computing, e.g. turing machine and proper programming, not only brute forcing some solution to a game for about a year, I'd take it as an a-level subject.. |
| 23:42.35 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Education in the UK is appalling, we don't even do that |
| 23:42.50 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: We wrote hello world and that is the most advanced thing on the course |
| 23:42.51 | edistar | rbs-tito_: I will buy a neo for sure, it's perfect I think, it will have bindings to python, it will have gps, and touch and gsm, what else do you need? |
| 23:43.13 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@87.194.100.170) |
| 23:43.27 | edistar | rbs-tito_: well.. this course has been going on for 3 years now |
| 23:43.49 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: All courses are 2 years before Uni in the UK |
| 23:44.10 | edistar | ok |
| 23:44.16 | edistar | german system is a bit different |
| 23:45.42 | edistar | good thing is: only after I took computing did I get my own pc and learn all about linux and hardware in general, that was when I was 14 maybe, before that I hardly knew how to turn on a pc |
| 23:46.21 | bmk789_ | edistar: do you live in germany? |
| 23:46.41 | edistar | bmk789_: no, in the Netherlands, 5 mins from germany |
| 23:46.46 | bmk789_ | ah |
| 23:47.12 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Lol! Weird |
| 23:47.17 | edistar | yes |
| 23:47.31 | edistar | and I'm half british |
| 23:47.37 | rbs-tito_ | Even crazier |
| 23:47.46 | rbs-tito_ | I'm part Spanish part Welsh |
| 23:47.53 | rbs-tito_ | and part english |
| 23:48.00 | edistar | not bad |
| 23:48.04 | edistar | I like the welsh |
| 23:48.15 | rbs-tito_ | lol, that is a strange thing to say |
| 23:48.27 | edistar | rbs-tito_: well.. I know a few |
| 23:51.56 | rbs-tito_ | You know when you buy the iphone? As soon as you plug it into itunes it asks for a £100 deposit on top of the price of the handset!! |
| 23:52.22 | edistar | hm? |
| 23:53.13 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: As soon as you plug it in to itunes to get it activated it says you need to pay £100 |
| 23:53.32 | edistar | rbs-tito_: are you serious? |
| 23:54.04 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 23:54.17 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Yup. And of course you are locked into 18 months contract at £35/month |
| 23:54.49 | edistar | rbs-tito_: much to expensive.. |
| 23:54.54 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie|laptop (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:55.00 | edistar | I would buy the device and open it.. |
| 23:55.24 | edistar | if you don't activate in itunes you don't pay the contract, do you? |
| 23:55.39 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: if you don't pay the conract it doesn't turn on |
| 23:55.55 | edistar | rbs-tito_: there are tools |
| 23:56.36 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: Nope, UK version comes with the new firmware. There aren't any workarounds to install 3rd party software. If it picks up 3rd party software it breaks itself! |
| 23:56.44 | edistar | a friend of mine in germany has an american iphone |
| 23:57.00 | edistar | lovely.. I think that firmware is cracked already or will be in 2 weeks |
| 23:58.02 | rbs-tito_ | dodgy though, anyone who cracked the first one and then updated the iphone (happens automatically through EDGE) ended up with a brick to throw away, and an 18 month contract with no handset! |
| 23:58.12 | edistar | rbs-tito_: got any good website, some tutorials for learning ruby? |
| 23:58.25 | edistar | well, you could unbrick it |
| 23:58.27 | edistar | ;) |
| 23:58.41 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: http://tryruby.hobix.com/ |
| 23:58.47 | rbs-tito_ | edistar: That is awesome |
| 23:59.34 | edistar | rbs-tito_: that website is cool |