| 00:00.49 | flexd | how long does the compile have left when it's gotten to generating locales? :/ |
| 00:02.16 | abraxa_ | Uhh |
| 00:02.18 | abraxa_ | 1/3rd or so |
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| 00:02.30 | flexd | good gried |
| 00:02.32 | flexd | grief* |
| 00:02.34 | flexd | going to bed then heh |
| 00:03.05 | abraxa_ | Well, you're building an entire distribution from scratch :) |
| 00:03.05 | flexd | i hope it doesnt always take this long? |
| 00:03.05 | abraxa_ | Naw, just the first time |
| 00:03.46 | flexd | good good |
| 00:04.12 | ozarka | flexd: Don't you want to watch? |
| 00:04.24 | ozarka | What if there's an error 5 mintues after you leave it? |
| 00:04.42 | flexd | ozarka: toobad for the error, lonely all night. |
| 00:05.12 | ozarka | I started one this morning before I went to work. |
| 00:05.16 | flexd | if it's a good looking female one it's got a open invitation to my bed, but i highly doubt such things exist, and if they do they probably come in trough a window or a door, not the computer. |
| 00:05.30 | abraxa_ | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-November/011394.html - can we say... shit? I mean... wow. |
| 00:06.00 | ozarka | Don't fsck with Americans. We want out 850 and we want it now. |
| 00:06.18 | flexd | just dont take out 900 |
| 00:06.27 | flexd | 900/1800 are what's being used in norway |
| 00:06.31 | flexd | primarily 900 i think :/ |
| 00:06.51 | ozarka | It is kind of obnoxious that the 4 band we bought is actually a 3 band. |
| 00:06.54 | mjr | nobody's taking 900 out |
| 00:07.07 | DukeOfURL | what freq does ATT/Cingular use? |
| 00:07.24 | raster | 7 |
| 00:07.26 | flexd | it says an 850/1800/1900 variant has been suggested |
| 00:07.36 | ozarka | I'm use ATT/Cingular in Dallas and I get reception. |
| 00:07.39 | flexd | or wait, nevermind >_< |
| 00:07.40 | ljp | 8 |
| 00:07.48 | flexd | 9 |
| 00:07.50 | ozarka | Made a call with my qtopia Neo this morning. |
| 00:07.59 | ljp | woooo! |
| 00:08.11 | ozarka | But I would likely lose reception between Dallas and Ft Worth. |
| 00:08.20 | ljp | drive faster |
| 00:08.38 | raster | reception is for whimps |
| 00:08.44 | ozarka | Better yet, don't drive to Ft Worth. |
| 00:09.12 | ozarka | But where else am I going to find the latest fashion in belt buckles and cowboy boots? |
| 00:09.23 | ljp | oklahoma |
| 00:09.27 | raster | montana |
| 00:09.35 | ljp | new york city! |
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| 00:10.25 | flexd | norway > all |
| 00:10.32 | flexd | now sleepy, 5hours to wakeup, yay me. |
| 00:10.33 | ljp | I was this | | close to a job in dallas when TT found me and moved me to paradise |
| 00:10.51 | ozarka | I think some people are using the 850 thing as an excuse to jump off the bandwagon. |
| 00:11.06 | ozarka | ljp: Where's paradise? |
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| 00:11.39 | ljp | australia |
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| 00:12.07 | abraxa_ | ozarka: I wouldn't say so. |
| 00:13.20 | abraxa_ | I just find it *extremely* amazing that *such* an important issue hasn't been communicated between the hardware team and the staff for a year and a half now. |
| 00:14.25 | ozarka | I agree, but I attribute it to growing pains. |
| 00:14.59 | ozarka | My understanding was that it was a mistake and everyone at OM thought it was 850. |
| 00:15.16 | ozarka | So who knew there was no 850 and when did they know it? :-) |
| 00:16.25 | abraxa_ | I don't really want to speculate about that as I don't have any knowledge about the internal processes |
| 00:16.46 | ozarka | IRC is made for pointless speculation. |
| 00:16.51 | abraxa_ | heh ;) |
| 00:17.34 | ljp | has to be the new guys fault |
| 00:17.48 | mmontour | ozarka: the problem was noticed a long time ago, e.g. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/008879.html |
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| 00:18.34 | abraxa_ | mmontour: That's still one year after GTA01 hardware was already halfway done |
| 00:19.34 | mmontour | abraxa_: True, and I have no idea when the problem was noticed inside OM/FIC. |
| 00:19.59 | abraxa_ | I think we can agree on "damn way too late" ;) |
| 00:20.20 | mmontour | I was hoping it was just some component out of spec, or something that could be tuned in firmware |
| 00:20.33 | abraxa_ | Likewise |
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| 00:21.46 | abraxa_ | So we can see the device wasn't designed for the North American market - which however would be one of two major selling points now. Open Source doesn't seem anywhere as big as a driving force as in the US and Europe, meaning less people in Asia would buy it |
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| 00:25.16 | aevin | does anyone know how many (few) RF antenna match circuits is needed for a typical quad-band solution? and how many is there in the GTA01? |
| 00:27.31 | abraxa_ | As there are 4 frequencies involved I'd say there are 4 RF matching circuits involved |
| 00:27.36 | aevin | or as the same antenna is used regardless of freq, there's one huge/advanced antenna match/balun(?)/spur filter and possibly adding some switching? i've never worked with cell phone chips before. |
| 00:28.24 | aevin | was it a TI calypso chipset in the GTA01? |
| 00:28.30 | mjr | yes |
| 00:28.32 | SpeedEvil | And 02 |
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| 00:29.09 | SpeedEvil | 'qualified vendors only' |
| 00:29.24 | SpeedEvil | IOW - look like you might buy a million, sign NDA, and you get a datasheet |
| 00:31.31 | aevin | doh! |
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| 00:39.12 | roh | re |
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| 00:40.18 | aevin | mih |
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| 00:41.19 | balrog-kun | SpeedEvil: i heard the GTA02 wasn't going to use the Calypso? |
| 00:41.28 | SpeedEvil | balrog-kun: it is |
| 00:41.35 | SpeedEvil | balrog-kun: at least, it's reported so |
| 00:41.51 | balrog-kun | hum.. |
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| 00:42.23 | balrog-kun | that would be pretty bad |
| 00:46.42 | roh | balrog-kun we are currently evaluating how easy it is to make a gta02-us in addition to a gta02-eu |
| 00:47.02 | aevin | abraxa_: btw, i found a block layout sketch for the transceiver http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12296&contentId=4701 , so now we know :) |
| 00:47.16 | roh | gta02 will have calypso also, yes. thats nothing that can be changed shortly |
| 00:47.44 | balrog-kun | roh: gah |
| 00:47.49 | SpeedEvil | roh: how major is the rework to get quad band? |
| 00:48.52 | mjr | balrog-kun, what's your beef with calypso? |
| 00:49.02 | mjr | roh, have fun with that :] |
| 00:49.19 | balrog-kun | mjr: that i've put two days work in emulating the other chip |
| 00:49.33 | roh | SpeedEvil really major. that would mean redesigning the rf-stage from 3 to 4 frequencies.. meaning another mux or a different mux, one filter stage more which again needs pcb space and getting it to work rf-wise after that. |
| 00:49.34 | mjr | ahh |
| 00:50.13 | balrog-kun | mjr: also that the TI Calypso emulation is an order of magnitude less trivial to emulate |
| 00:50.25 | balrog-kun | because you first have to reverse engineer the protocl |
| 00:50.38 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 00:51.00 | roh | SpeedEvil replacing the 900mhz with 850mhz for the us market would mean a rather minor build-time change compared to that. and we can be nearly 100% sure it works and will get fcc then.. so i currently prefer a '2 different triband devices' to '1 quadband which could delay the whole thing due to added engineering time' |
| 00:51.05 | mmontour | balrog-kun: Are you confusing GPS and GSM? |
| 00:51.14 | SpeedEvil | roh: true |
| 00:51.41 | roh | balrog-kun eh.. what are you trying to emulate? the modes beside NMEA? |
| 00:51.51 | balrog-kun | mmontour: no? we already have GSM? |
| 00:51.56 | DukeOfURL | roh: which network uses 850? 900? |
| 00:52.09 | balrog-kun | roh: AIUI TI Calypso doesn't support NMEA |
| 00:52.19 | mmontour | ANTARIS4 is GPS, TI Calypso is GSM |
| 00:52.20 | mjr | TI Calypso is a GSM chip |
| 00:52.23 | mjr | they usually don't |
| 00:52.28 | balrog-kun | oh |
| 00:52.37 | roh | balrog-kun eh.. i was talking about antaris in my last question |
| 00:52.54 | balrog-kun | mmontour: yes, i'm actually confusing them, ignore me |
| 00:53.21 | roh | DukeOfURL: the us seems to use 850 and 1900, the rest of the planet uses 900/1800 |
| 00:53.48 | mwester-road | s/the us/much of North America, and parts of Central and South America/ |
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| 00:54.12 | roh | mwester-road yes.. there are some other small countries which also use 850 |
| 00:54.37 | mwester-road | CYA by minimization is a poor strategy, in general. |
| 00:55.07 | SpeedEvil | balrog-kun: no :/ |
| 00:55.19 | balrog-kun | phew, that's good |
| 00:55.37 | balrog-kun | next time just ignore me :) |
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| 00:57.00 | roh | balrog-kun gta01 is hammerhead. gta02 changed to u-blox antares |
| 00:58.14 | balrog-kun | roh: that's really nice |
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| 01:00.41 | balrog-kun | http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/07/142247&from=rss the part about "common cold" is actually true :/ |
| 01:02.29 | mjr | Yes well. Mostly their openness has been generally not so good, so they don't really count. ;] |
| 01:04.17 | DukeOfURL | speed: greenhouse? |
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| 01:06.18 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: sort-of. Greenhouse that's mainly used as shed. |
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| 06:39.10 | flexd | ai ai ai, still compiling :( |
| 06:39.40 | CM | flexd: Hehe |
| 06:40.15 | CM | flexd: As a reference, a clean build takes about 10.5h on my AMD64 3000+ with 1gb ram |
| 06:41.01 | CM | And you should be glad it's still compiling, it used to fail 2-3 times before.. ;) |
| 06:42.30 | flexd | CM: i'm on a amd 4000+ with 2gb ram |
| 06:42.56 | CM | Hmm.. Maybe it has grown a bit lately. |
| 06:43.16 | flexd | im going to work anyway so i dont care really, just really thought you were joking with the 12h :p |
| 06:43.18 | CM | Once you have everything built it's quite quick to update and rebuild though |
| 06:43.34 | CM | We're always dead serious in here.. ;) |
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| 06:45.06 | Batalyx_ | and my fresh build from yesterday did crash this computer again. I'll try without -j 6 today... |
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| 06:51.10 | Batalyx_ | how completely does "make clean" clean the project? |
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| 06:51.47 | Batalyx_ | looks like it's pretty complete |
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| 07:28.51 | flexd | it's running opie atm, so OE should probably not be a problem i guess |
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| 07:29.30 | ScaredyCat | not sure how useful it'll be though |
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| 07:34.36 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 07:41.10 | Ghiottone | g'day |
| 07:43.34 | CM | :) |
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| 07:51.43 | emdete | ScaredyCat: i use your image. i just saw there a packages for kernel 2.6.21 installed. is that intended? |
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| 08:02.52 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:12.42 | torpor | yo |
| 08:13.17 | emdete | ScaredyCat: also i have a problem with screen & your image - do u use screen? it needs long time to start and open new windows. seems to be a problem with utmp... |
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| 08:17.09 | flexd | ScaredyCat: Nah i realize it will have little use |
| 08:17.21 | flexd | But then i atleast get a feel for how things work |
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| 08:17.38 | flexd | the ipaq has a bigger screen than the neo + only reacts to stylus though :/ |
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| 08:36.29 | *** join/#openmoko codyl (n=cody@adsl-71-142-83-200.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 08:36.55 | codyl | anyone ever have trouble getting the neo to take a charge after sitting for awhile ? |
| 08:37.23 | ewon | I hear it's a known issue |
| 08:37.38 | codyl | ewon, if my neo fail..I'll be pissed |
| 08:37.44 | ewon | it's not failed |
| 08:37.54 | ewon | it's just too braindead to negotiate the usb to charge, iirc |
| 08:37.56 | codyl | I pulled out the battery and waited a minute |
| 08:37.57 | ewon | check the wiki |
| 08:38.03 | codyl | still nothing |
| 08:38.52 | mjr | codyl, and left it to charge for several hours? |
| 08:39.05 | codyl | mjr, no...maybe 30 minutes |
| 08:39.31 | torpor | codyl: it a known issue. the battery runs flat if you leave it in. take it out when you are done with the neo. |
| 08:39.40 | torpor | you need to let it charge for at least 30 minutes before turning it on. |
| 08:39.48 | codyl | torpor, ah..ive had it in a bag for the past month |
| 08:39.51 | torpor | happens to me all the time, i have gotten used to leaving my neo plugged in .. |
| 08:40.10 | torpor | it can be solved but you hae to treat your batteries right. |
| 08:40.16 | torpor | i've gotta rotate mine now actually that reminds me. |
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| 08:41.13 | codyl | torpor, what do i do |
| 08:41.47 | torpor | plug in your neo, charge your battery for a few hours |
| 08:41.56 | torpor | when you are done with your neo, pull out the battery |
| 08:41.59 | codyl | torpor, im using a phone charger |
| 08:42.02 | codyl | not my computer |
| 08:42.05 | torpor | doesn't matter |
| 08:42.08 | codyl | k good |
| 08:42.15 | torpor | whatever you use, just keep the battery charged, and stored to the side when not in use. |
| 08:42.20 | codyl | some devices use the data line pullups to make sure its a computer |
| 08:42.24 | doc|home | <troll>850MHz!</troll> |
| 08:42.50 | codyl | torpor, so just wait a while? |
| 08:42.51 | codyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:43.06 | torpor | <troll>US Fascists don't deserve any more cool tech!</troll> |
| 08:43.11 | torpor | codyl: yup. |
| 08:43.17 | codyl | torpor, awesome. thanks |
| 08:43.19 | doc|home | torpor: I'm irish and in canada :| |
| 08:43.23 | codyl | is this project even moving...? |
| 08:43.36 | torpor | doc|home: well you deserve eveything then. |
| 08:43.37 | doc|home | so I'll have a phone that'll work in one country, but be a brick in another |
| 08:43.40 | doc|home | torpor: indeed! :) |
| 08:43.50 | torpor | codyl: yes. but some of the important things are being done last it would seem, like power-saving and gps and stufff .. |
| 08:43.51 | codyl | I thought there was going to be a v2 of the hw last month |
| 08:44.06 | torpor | there is going to be a v2, but probably not until december/january .. |
| 08:44.11 | torpor | its in the final stages of testing. |
| 08:44.21 | doc|home | what's v2 going to be? Non fucked board? |
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| 08:44.25 | torpor | some of the guys in here have gta02's already |
| 08:44.26 | codyl | torpor, "power-saving" is probably second most important feature, next to the f**ker booting at all |
| 08:44.35 | doc|home | ah, gta02 |
| 08:44.37 | doc|home | :/ |
| 08:44.52 | torpor | gta02 == better cpu, more ram, better gps chip, 3d acceleration, piezoelectric accelerometers, WLAN. |
| 08:45.04 | torpor | codyl: gta01's boot just fine when you give them power. |
| 08:45.26 | codyl | torpor, okay awesome... |
| 08:45.38 | torpor | just have patience. this is a hacker project right now after all. |
| 08:45.56 | doc|home | torpor: the 02 wasn't meant to be :/ |
| 08:46.06 | torpor | eh? |
| 08:46.14 | doc|home | it was meant to be market ready |
| 08:46.18 | doc|home | i.e. for anyone |
| 08:46.27 | torpor | not so |
| 08:46.33 | doc|home | yeah it was :) |
| 08:46.42 | torpor | gta02 is the first initial public release, but its still a hacker fpphone |
| 08:46.44 | doc|home | or at least that was the impression I always got |
| 08:46.46 | codyl | torpor, DEFINITELY reeks of a hackers project |
| 08:47.06 | torpor | but like all good linux hacker prjoects, openmoko is progressing nicely and there are good reasons to get involved |
| 08:47.14 | torpor | i'm developing apps for openmoko exclusively right now |
| 08:47.22 | torpor | and its a great platform, once you get through the wrinkles. |
| 08:47.35 | codyl | torpor, its gonna be like most FOSS projects |
| 08:47.40 | codyl | useless crap for a while |
| 08:47.42 | torpor | do not generalize |
| 08:47.48 | torpor | most FOSS is not the same. |
| 08:47.49 | codyl | then an exponential rate of growth |
| 08:47.53 | CVirus | my parents just bought an awesome Linux based satellite reciever :-D |
| 08:48.11 | torpor | most people don't see the successful FOSS projects because they're too busy complaining about the non-successful ones. |
| 08:48.16 | *** join/#openmoko glledo (n=gellevi@208.72.153.130) |
| 08:48.28 | torpor | there are tons of really superb products running FOSS that nobody knows about because there aren't complaints. |
| 08:48.36 | torpor | so generalizing about FOSS is lame. |
| 08:48.41 | torpor | i would advise you not to do it. |
| 08:48.43 | codyl | torpor, care to elaborate ? |
| 08:48.52 | torpor | dbox |
| 08:48.59 | torpor | wrtlinux |
| 08:49.06 | torpor | mythTV |
| 08:49.07 | torpor | etc. |
| 08:49.19 | flexd | what is great is that with gta02 the hardware bugs and stuff should be gone, and as soon as the software gets made it's gonna be a complete phone |
| 08:49.25 | torpor | there are tons and tons of really successfull FOSS projects out there that do not qualify for 'putrid hacker project' status. |
| 08:49.59 | codyl | torpor, I was simply commenting on how the image of the project has been handled |
| 08:50.13 | codyl | in that sense, most FOSS projects share the same level of "putrid" |
| 08:50.16 | torpor | well there is definitely a PR front missing on the openmoko project side of things |
| 08:50.26 | torpor | there is unfortunately no way to 'open source'-ify project PR .. |
| 08:50.28 | codyl | torpor, that was all I was saying |
| 08:50.38 | codyl | heh...wikis dont cut it |
| 08:50.43 | torpor | well then its a good thing you've come into this channel to learn the truth about the project. |
| 08:50.49 | torpor | wikis do not cut it, i agree. |
| 08:51.09 | codyl | torpor, I'm "in the loop" for everything openmoko uses |
| 08:52.39 | codyl | just not the project itself |
| 08:54.12 | hrw | torpor: mythTv... argh |
| 08:55.09 | hrw | hard to configure, non intuitive interface, low quality bttv tuners support, nearly not-existing channel search |
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| 08:58.13 | codyl | torpor, do you know if anybody is working on a configuration solution ? (ala gconf) |
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| 09:03.58 | hrw | codyl: openmoko use gconf |
| 09:04.31 | codyl | hrw, and ship orbit and other such poo ? |
| 09:04.39 | codyl | ill see when this things boots.. :-) |
| 09:04.49 | codyl | hrw, I'm working on something interesting regarding config |
| 09:06.18 | codyl | omg yay, the stupid startup sound was replaced! |
| 09:06.52 | hrw | codyl: gconf-dbus do not use orbit but dbus |
| 09:08.00 | codyl | hrw, gconf-dbus is a hack |
| 09:08.07 | torpor | codyl: pessimism is really not appropriate. you can't get involved in a FOSS project and then complain that nothing is being done (like consumer-co's do) .. step up and fix whatever you don't like. |
| 09:08.40 | codyl | torpor, uh..I *am* fixing |
| 09:08.50 | codyl | torpor, wondering if openmoko cares (its for olpc) |
| 09:08.51 | hrw | codyl: it is working solution used for quite long time in embedded world |
| 09:09.08 | torpor | yeah, but please realise: 10:06 * codyl thinks this thing has hope yet |
| 09:09.11 | torpor | not helpful. |
| 09:09.46 | codyl | torpor, have some humor ? |
| 09:09.49 | torpor | there are a lot of things with openmoko that need fixing, besides gconf (which just works) |
| 09:09.56 | torpor | codyl: its not humorous, at all. |
| 09:10.04 | codyl | hrw, so folks are content with gconf- okay then |
| 09:11.07 | hrw | codyl: and you suggest what to use instead? |
| 09:11.20 | codyl | hrw, a lightweight dbus service with a small handful of methods |
| 09:11.47 | codyl | and a modular datastore system |
| 09:13.09 | codyl | hrw, (its an actual project of mine, not pissy-ness) |
| 09:13.33 | hrw | codyl: ok. how much code changes needed for application which use gconf? |
| 09:13.48 | codyl | hrw, depends on what route you want to take |
| 09:14.01 | codyl | I could write a gconf api compat library |
| 09:14.04 | torpor | keep in mind there are apps already doing gconf .. |
| 09:14.33 | codyl | assuming they dont anything too advanced .. which usually means they do |
| 09:15.10 | hrw | assuming... I like that word |
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| 09:15.48 | codyl | hrw, thats why I added " which usually means they do " |
| 09:16.01 | torpor | i would advise a lot more familiarity with the existing toolchain and apps and bundles before you make many assumptions. |
| 09:16.15 | torpor | get the openmoko build kit up and running |
| 09:16.18 | torpor | get your first image built |
| 09:16.20 | torpor | get some of the apps built |
| 09:16.24 | codyl | torpor, ive done all that |
| 09:16.29 | torpor | inspect the way things are being done by the active apps developers as of today |
| 09:16.31 | codyl | and other embedded systems |
| 09:16.34 | codyl | i use angstrom |
| 09:17.36 | torpor | great, so you've got all the answers on your disk already. you should be able to find out how many onboard apps are using gconf and how they're using it easily enough. |
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| 09:18.28 | codyl | hrw, if you are happy with your current solution, I'll shut up |
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| 09:18.47 | codyl | hrw, I was just curious...because OLPC wasn't happy with gconf |
| 09:18.53 | torpor | best thing to do is implement it and demo why its better than the current scene .. |
| 09:19.10 | codyl | torpor, its implemented |
| 09:19.21 | hrw | codyl: I decided to not change internals - there are too many things to do |
| 09:19.22 | torpor | in openmoko? |
| 09:19.27 | codyl | hrw, gotcha |
| 09:19.35 | codyl | hrw, thanks for your time- keep up the good work |
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| 09:24.08 | torpor | yikes |
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| 09:30.49 | flexd | i just love pybluez's documentation.. |
| 09:31.00 | flexd | lookup_name: availabilty: GNU/linux |
| 09:31.07 | flexd | but it works in 1/10 cases for windows.. >_> |
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| 10:00.34 | Ghiottone|work | re |
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| 10:16.36 | Ghiottone|work | re |
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| 10:30.52 | blaster | aanyone from the US? :) |
| 10:33.25 | CM | If there is, they're up early |
| 10:35.15 | zash | http://www.worldtime.com/cgi-bin/wt.cgi?cnt=490431&ID=81145392ed |
| 10:36.21 | Stephmw | g'morning |
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| 10:37.16 | blaster | i was just reading about this offer at clubit.com, they are selling the gOS dev board for only $60 |
| 10:37.21 | blaster | seems to be US only though :/ |
| 10:38.29 | blaster | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:38.32 | blaster | oops |
| 10:38.44 | CM | blaster: I noticed that one too |
| 10:38.50 | blaster | http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=CA4842001&nav=3 |
| 10:38.56 | Ghiottone|work | blaster reading ./ aren't you? :) |
| 10:39.10 | blaster | not really, no |
| 10:39.11 | blaster | :) |
| 10:39.15 | Ghiottone|work | s$./$/.$ |
| 10:39.20 | Ghiottone|work | err |
| 10:39.33 | blaster | so, i'd like to find some american who can ship a board for me |
| 10:39.35 | blaster | :) |
| 10:39.48 | CM | blaster: If you did, why not order something like this instead? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135057 |
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| 10:40.46 | flexd | yay |
| 10:40.50 | flexd | i think my compile finished |
| 10:40.57 | CM | :) |
| 10:41.01 | flexd | not sure though |
| 10:41.06 | flexd | i didnt use screen to do it :/ |
| 10:41.22 | flexd | but when i got to work the box was at 100% load and 50celsius ~ degrees |
| 10:41.30 | flexd | now it's 0 load and only 33 degrees again |
| 10:41.31 | CM | Just look if you have a rootfs |
| 10:41.51 | flexd | CM: where? |
| 10:41.55 | CM | in build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973 |
| 10:41.58 | SpeedEvil | blaster: what board? |
| 10:42.02 | blaster | looks nice CM |
| 10:42.04 | CM | When you're in the moko dir |
| 10:42.08 | blaster | SpeedEvil: see my link above |
| 10:42.42 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I clicked the worldclock thigh |
| 10:42.47 | flexd | CM: there's alot of files there atleast |
| 10:42.48 | blaster | (its just a via micro board) |
| 10:42.58 | CM | SpeedEvil: Also described here http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5305482907.html |
| 10:43.11 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 10:43.44 | flexd | iboot-gta01v2/3/4-latest.bin's like 3 of them, a uImage-neo....-latest. bin file, openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-.jffs2, some lowlevel-foo* .bins |
| 10:44.04 | flexd | arr, and a .rootfs.jffs2 file :o |
| 10:44.15 | CM | flexd: Looks like you're good :) |
| 10:44.19 | flexd | hmm |
| 10:44.33 | flexd | now it's just about getting qemu booted, hopefully it works with freenx desktops |
| 10:44.45 | SpeedEvil | Stop, Hammertime! http://www.tincantools.com/home.php |
| 10:45.28 | SpeedEvil | (small ARM dev board, actually with a price and an online shop - though it looks unfinished) |
| 10:45.38 | Batalyx | for those who might be interested, I didn't manage to get the Openmoko compiled today either. IT support came into the room and took the computer "for further examination" while it was compiling :) (yes, I'm happy) |
| 10:46.05 | SpeedEvil | In DIP40 |
| 10:46.17 | SpeedEvil | what was the computer? |
| 10:46.25 | SpeedEvil | may they upgrade you? |
| 10:47.53 | flexd | Batalyx: ouch. |
| 10:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.12) |
| 10:53.58 | cb24 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BigPageWidget sounds like a good idea |
| 10:55.09 | CM | Best project of the day, I say run it on da whole interwebz: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/08/software-deletes-idiots-web |
| 10:55.21 | Batalyx | the computer was a dual core amd 64. don't remember more specs, sorry. it was "a clone", suitably named "camp" :) |
| 10:55.35 | Batalyx | hopefully they'll upgrade... |
| 10:55.40 | flexd | woo |
| 10:55.44 | flexd | qemu is booting oe! |
| 10:55.52 | CVirus | Ze INterWeb is for pr0n |
| 10:56.34 | CM | cb24: Cool idea, and ambitious description by this Who guy |
| 10:56.41 | cb24 | inded |
| 10:56.47 | cb24 | s/e/ee/ |
| 10:56.57 | flexd | like the opera browser has |
| 10:57.02 | flexd | that zoom thing is really nice |
| 10:57.41 | CM | Definitely is, and fast too |
| 11:03.08 | zash | but, does it run on linux? |
| 11:03.21 | zash | ;) |
| 11:03.45 | zash | but, what performance would it have on the gta02? |
| 11:04.04 | flexd | i think i broke qemu :< |
| 11:04.44 | flexd | usb-ohci: DataOverrun -3 > 17 is being spammed into the console heh ^^ |
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| 11:23.54 | zash | about the BigPageWidget, instead of special zoom gestures the aux-button could switch between zoom and pan |
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| 11:52.37 | CM | zash: Good idea, add that to the page or talk page for it :) |
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| 12:26.00 | hrw | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/08/usb-scanner-and-udev/ |
| 12:28.38 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb25@dsl-245-156-92.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 12:29.39 | zash | i have an old flatbed usb-scanner somewhere |
| 12:29.49 | zash | winxp hated it |
| 12:29.55 | CM | Can't be that old if it's usb ;) |
| 12:30.10 | zash | everything is relative |
| 12:31.03 | flexd | hmmm |
| 12:34.56 | SpeedEvil | Many of the earliest USB scanners were simply parallel ones with a USB-parallel chip |
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| 12:47.51 | flexd | Hmmmm |
| 12:47.59 | flexd | I got a brilliant idea again, yay me :< |
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| 12:58.41 | zash | flexd: yay for you |
| 12:59.46 | flexd | In the interest of learning more python + try gtk, im gonna make something that can show me norways bus times in realtime |
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| 13:00.33 | zash | nice |
| 13:01.10 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-33-172.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 13:01.33 | flexd | Maybe even other countries if i can find websites giving out the info |
| 13:01.58 | zash | tabussen.nu for ac.se |
| 13:02.18 | zash | and umeå |
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| 13:02.52 | flexd | do they give out realtime info too? |
| 13:03.43 | zash | how do you mean with that? |
| 13:04.00 | flexd | like that |
| 13:04.01 | flexd | http://www.trafikanten.no/sis/ |
| 13:04.14 | flexd | Gives out real time info based on where the busses are locaed and stuff |
| 13:04.19 | zash | coul |
| 13:04.36 | flexd | so at the stops there are digital signs that show when the bus is due |
| 13:04.42 | flexd | or estimated to come |
| 13:04.59 | CM | Nice |
| 13:05.11 | zash | very nice |
| 13:05.21 | flexd | So i was thinking i could just make a gtk program that looks pretty much like that form to the left there (minus afew buttons + make it nicer) |
| 13:05.21 | CM | Saw some app showing the busses in Helsinki realtime on a google map |
| 13:05.31 | flexd | cool |
| 13:05.36 | zash | CM: that be cool |
| 13:05.45 | flexd | then i could make it just perform that search and display results nicely |
| 13:05.55 | CM | http://transport.wspgroup.fi/hklkartta/ |
| 13:06.22 | zash | aha, 'saw some app' |
| 13:07.04 | CM | They've made it a bit nicer now, saw it when when it was beta |
| 13:07.05 | zash | that + position of self with estimated times for busses that stops nerby |
| 13:07.49 | flexd | heh cool |
| 13:08.03 | flexd | having that on your phone would be awsome |
| 13:08.28 | zash | yea |
| 13:09.35 | abraxa_ | roh: ping |
| 13:11.31 | ScaredyCat | hehehehe |
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| 13:15.02 | abraxa_ | WWII is over, you can stop spying, ScaredyCat xP~ |
| 13:15.28 | ScaredyCat | don't mention the war |
| 13:15.54 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:16.14 | Stephmw | War? It was a police action! |
| 13:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:17.53 | ScaredyCat | CM: i that real realtime or pretend realtime? |
| 13:18.00 | ScaredyCat | is |
| 13:18.06 | CM | I think it is real |
| 13:18.19 | ScaredyCat | that's pretty fecking awesome then.. |
| 13:18.30 | ScaredyCat | they should do that in Amsterdam with the trams... |
| 13:19.07 | ScaredyCat | probably wont though, that'd be too useful to their customers |
| 13:20.54 | Stephmw | hey mickeyl |
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| 13:22.46 | zash | looks like it pulls all vehicles in the viewport every sec |
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| 13:28.31 | ScaredyCat | zash: yeah, but is the data updated live or just 'where we expect them to be' |
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| 13:31.15 | roh | abraxa_ pong |
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| 13:34.17 | abraxa_ | roh: Public specs of the glamo on the smedia page say that the 3362 supports MPEG-4 decoding in hardware. mickey however said he didn't see anything hinting at that in the detailed glamo specs... so I'd like to figure out what is correct. |
| 13:34.21 | abraxa_ | roh: Can you help me? :) |
| 13:35.13 | jserv-- | abraxa_, SMedia glamo 336x supports HW MPEG-4 decoding. |
| 13:35.38 | CM | Nice :) |
| 13:36.04 | jserv-- | abraxa_, at least, we have a working glamo driver/MPEG-4 output based on XVideo. |
| 13:36.12 | abraxa_ | jserv--: Awesome! |
| 13:36.58 | roh | well.. also depends on what mpeg4 ;) there are a load of variants |
| 13:37.18 | jserv-- | abraxa_, but only refer to MPEG-4 simple profile. |
| 13:37.42 | abraxa_ | Well, of course. But the mere fact that we do have MPEG-4 decoding in hardware is great as we can take quite some burden off the CPU with such streams |
| 13:38.09 | jserv-- | correct. |
| 13:38.27 | jserv-- | however, it comes with some limitations due to HW configurations. |
| 13:38.33 | gi-el | mpeg-4 in software on arm is no fun. |
| 13:39.03 | jserv-- | I have no idea if I have enough permission to explain what I said. |
| 13:39.40 | gi-el | i think i understand, i have the iso/iec 14496 specs almost memorized :P |
| 13:39.41 | abraxa_ | jserv--: I'd like to see how I can integrate the interfacing code into gstreamer - do you think there is a way for me to do this or would I have to sign an NDA to see the glamo specs as well? |
| 13:39.53 | jserv-- | because of the fact I have to point out the HW design/spec if I explain what the exact limitation is. |
| 13:40.10 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 13:40.18 | jserv-- | abraxa_, yes, NDA is required. |
| 13:40.45 | abraxa_ | jserv--: Okay |
| 13:41.20 | flexd | anyone of you familiar with python/gtk on windows? :/ |
| 13:42.01 | ScaredyCat | NDA .... :( |
| 13:42.09 | jserv-- | abraxa_, http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/olv/xserver |
| 13:42.49 | abraxa_ | jserv--: I saw, didn't noticeany MPEG-4 interfacing code however... I'll look again, thanks :) |
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| 13:43.06 | jserv-- | abraxa_, stay tune, we will post the latest X accelerated driver including XVideo support after we clarify some non-technical issues. |
| 13:43.39 | jserv-- | abraxa_, olv develops a series of useful tools for accessing glamo HW |
| 13:43.48 | jserv-- | including MPEG-4 decoding. |
| 13:44.01 | abraxa_ | Awesome, thanks =) |
| 13:44.57 | jserv-- | :) |
| 13:45.01 | emdete | hm, mokomakefile truncates all temp. script files like build/tmp/stamps/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/webkit-gtk-0.1+svnr27222-r3.do_compile - can i somehow prevent that? |
| 13:45.33 | roh | truncates? |
| 13:45.37 | gi-el | temp script files aren't in stamps |
| 13:45.47 | gi-el | they are in work/arm*/package_name/temp |
| 13:46.07 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 13:47.09 | jserv-- | abraxa_, however, I am of the opinion that OM internal can provide abstract video provider for you to write gst plugin without NDA. |
| 13:47.23 | emdete | wonderful, you are right.. sry. |
| 13:47.41 | jserv-- | abraxa_, you can just use decoder/helper functions as well. |
| 13:47.49 | emdete | i use those scripts to set my dev env... is there a better way if i want to develop outside of oe? |
| 13:48.04 | roh | jserv-- well.. basically i think snippet of C and the register definitions are all whats needed.. docs are overrated anyways |
| 13:48.23 | abraxa_ | roh ;) |
| 13:48.38 | jserv-- | roh, hey :) |
| 13:48.48 | roh | abraxa_ what would interrest me much more is how you want to integrate any hw-decoding into the gst pipeline. |
| 13:48.50 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxD_ (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 13:49.11 | roh | hey jserv-- |
| 13:49.25 | jserv-- | ouch, it's late in Taiwan. |
| 13:49.34 | jserv-- | see you later. |
| 13:49.59 | roh | have fun. i will sleep soon too... *slurping coffee* |
| 13:50.01 | abraxa_ | roh: I'll look into that once I know how the glamo reacts when decoding video |
| 13:50.58 | roh | hrhr.. well.. i think fiddeling hw decoding into gst is much more complex than actually using the glamo for it when we know how it works ;') |
| 13:50.59 | abraxa_ | I'll most likely just end up creating a GstElement that has no source pads |
| 13:51.17 | roh | no source? |
| 13:51.22 | roh | you mean sink? |
| 13:51.47 | abraxa_ | No, I do mean source :) |
| 13:52.26 | abraxa_ | Yeah, gstreamer is using the *other* notation |
| 13:52.36 | roh | wtf? |
| 13:53.18 | Robot101 | source pads produce data, sink pads receive data |
| 13:53.24 | abraxa_ | roh: http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/section-elements-link.html |
| 13:53.27 | Robot101 | a source element has only source pads, a sink element has only sink pads |
| 13:53.35 | roh | doh |
| 13:55.55 | ScaredyCat | http://www.tomtom.com/ <-- go there, click 'Products' |
| 13:56.08 | ScaredyCat | useless mofos |
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| 14:14.55 | emdete | ScaredyCat: have you read my questions above? that one about screen? do you have an idea? |
| 14:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@GMKLXVII.dsl.saunalahti.fi) |
| 14:21.41 | Henryk | question about screen? |
| 14:22.18 | emdete | yes, screen always worked fine for me but since i use ScaredyCat's image it takes seconds to start or create a new window |
| 14:22.36 | ScaredyCat | huyh? eh? |
| 14:22.39 | ScaredyCat | wha? |
| 14:22.46 | Henryk | yes, known bug, not ScaredyCats fault |
| 14:23.08 | emdete | ah.. okay. is it related to wtmp? |
| 14:24.04 | Henryk | http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3075 |
| 14:24.56 | Henryk | emdete: related to termcap, apparently XorA hasn't yet decided to include a fix. |
| 14:25.31 | ScaredyCat | did you supply the .bb Henryk? |
| 14:27.15 | Henryk | last I heard about the issue was that my proposed fix wasn't quite optimal and might be done without virtual, i then asked whether i should implement the modification and resubmit or whether XorA would do that, then XorA answered that I should let him think about it some more |
| 14:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko rcostine (n=rjc@75.146.239.153) |
| 14:29.19 | ScaredyCat | well, he's had nearly a month |
| 14:29.35 | ScaredyCat | so let's slap him till he does something |
| 14:30.07 | ScaredyCat | I presume that the termcap from an old version is smaller? |
| 14:30.23 | Henryk | no, there simply wasn't a termcap before |
| 14:30.39 | ScaredyCat | k.. |
| 14:30.52 | Henryk | mickeyl added the one to unbreak openmoko-terminal2 which needs termcap (by virtue of vte) to work properly (e.g. backspace) |
| 14:31.43 | Henryk | (so of course the best fix would be to fix vte to use terminfo instead of termcap and then drop the termcap again :) |
| 14:35.15 | ScaredyCat | ok... |
| 14:35.19 | emdete | hm, i reduced the file et viola it's fast. that's bad. why did that work in the past? |
| 14:35.32 | ScaredyCat | I ran you fix on the termcap.. orks ok... |
| 14:35.51 | ScaredyCat | I'll start putting the cut down one on my images |
| 14:36.05 | emdete | ScaredyCat: please keep rxvt also ;) |
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| 14:38.19 | Henryk | emdete: because in the past there was no termcap. screen works fine without termcap (and uses terminfo) and termcap is deprecated anyways. |
| 14:39.02 | ScaredyCat | ok, done |
| 14:39.03 | emdete | so i could deinstall termcap if i dont use that terminal? |
| 14:39.27 | ScaredyCat | on my next build (tonight) that'll get put in |
| 14:40.05 | emdete | ScaredyCat: do u also include manual fixes? i have some suggestions... |
| 14:40.05 | Henryk | emdete: if you don't need openmoko-terminal2 (or don't care that it can't backspace) then you can just delete /etc/termcap, yes |
| 14:40.13 | Henryk | (will also free 700k of flash!) |
| 14:40.28 | emdete | Henryk: wonderful. thnx. |
| 14:40.36 | ScaredyCat | yeah, if you have fixes I'm happy to put them in... if they don;t break stuff :) |
| 14:40.43 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 14:40.54 | ScaredyCat | 700k is a lot! |
| 14:42.16 | emdete | ScaredyCat: what do you think of this one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS#Required_fixes ? |
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| 14:43.29 | ScaredyCat | well the nameserver one I am happy with - I was debating if I should include it or not... but since it would be right for 99% of peeps then it'll go in |
| 14:44.50 | emdete | ScaredyCat: what is the problem the 1% people have? |
| 14:45.07 | ScaredyCat | they might use a different nameserver :) |
| 14:45.27 | ScaredyCat | eg might use bluetooth? |
| 14:45.53 | emdete | ScaredyCat: ah, okay. yes, bt/pan is a really nice problem |
| 14:46.16 | emdete | i searching for a good idea for fallback usb->pan->gprs ;) |
| 14:46.35 | SpeedEvil | Second neo? |
| 14:46.43 | ScaredyCat | yes please :) |
| 14:47.01 | emdete | SpeedEvil: only gta02... ;) |
| 14:47.05 | zash | pan? |
| 14:47.10 | emdete | bt/pan |
| 14:47.16 | emdete | the bedder wlan |
| 14:47.17 | ScaredyCat | pussy activated networking |
| 14:47.44 | ScaredyCat | although I can't do BT :( |
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| 14:48.31 | emdete | why not? |
| 14:49.16 | ScaredyCat | it kills the wifi on my laptop everytime I try to connect, and when I plug/unplug the dongle.. :( |
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| 14:50.13 | ScaredyCat | so not very viable - I would have liked to get bt/pan working so I could nonce about without my laptop |
| 14:52.39 | emdete | ScaredyCat: takes max an hour to empty the battery anyway.. |
| 14:53.23 | ScaredyCat | image it with wifi :/ |
| 14:53.47 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 14:54.19 | emdete | see... i always say wlan in a mobile i useless |
| 14:54.28 | hrw | emdete: lucky you |
| 14:54.42 | hrw | my laptop battery is out after 40 minutes (without wifi) |
| 14:55.12 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 14:55.24 | ScaredyCat | I get 2.5 hrs on mine |
| 14:55.38 | emdete | hrw: yes, but it's not called mobile... |
| 14:55.44 | SpeedEvil | And 1.1Kg. |
| 14:55.50 | SpeedEvil | Though I do wish it's faster than PII/300 |
| 14:55.53 | ScaredyCat | on your laptop Sp? |
| 14:55.57 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 14:56.09 | SpeedEvil | Re-celled the battery with modern cells. |
| 14:56.11 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: sounds like we've similar taste in laptops. fujitsu p2110 here |
| 14:56.20 | emdete | maybe someone should start a wikipage with a list of people an the longest time they used the neo without cable... |
| 14:56.23 | SpeedEvil | And have added internal wifi. |
| 14:56.46 | zash | uptimeproject? |
| 14:56.53 | ScaredyCat | well, my lappy only cost 300 quid |
| 14:56.56 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 14:57.07 | emdete | zash: good name... |
| 14:57.09 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: win. mine cost $1200 five years ago |
| 14:57.32 | ScaredyCat | ouch |
| 14:57.44 | hrw | http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/07nov/uf010908.gif |
| 14:57.58 | folken | afet |
| 14:58.25 | folken | .o(hmm backspace and enter are so close..) |
| 14:59.47 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Did you publish your kernel patch to make the battery readings more accurate somewhere? |
| 14:59.55 | zash | folken: remap backspace to capslock? |
| 14:59.58 | ScaredyCat | http://www.laptopreviews.org.uk/?s=igp - the 3692 is what I have |
| 15:00.22 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: hey, that's $240/year |
| 15:00.29 | folken | zash: heh, :) |
| 15:00.51 | ScaredyCat | omfg! look at this: |
| 15:00.56 | ScaredyCat | "Acer Aspire 3692 WL Mi Laptop has come with DDR2 SDRAM type of RAM technology that permits your system to access the information, files, or documents randomly." |
| 15:01.15 | zash | OH MY GOD |
| 15:01.17 | ScaredyCat | "The maximum ability of the system to support Random Access Memory is up to 2.048 GB." |
| 15:01.18 | cjb_ie | just what i always wanted! |
| 15:01.19 | folken | rofl! |
| 15:01.19 | zash | THATS AWESOME |
| 15:01.24 | ScaredyCat | holty crap |
| 15:01.43 | cjb_ie | taiwinglish marketroids? |
| 15:02.14 | emdete | ScaredyCat: back to the network issue: the link from /etc to /var is needed anyway, don't know why that is missing, right? |
| 15:02.17 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: not yet, I'm getting wedged on other tasks. For example putting up polytunnel, and stuff. I have to get stuff off my backup drive, the system reinstalled properly. |
| 15:02.27 | ScaredyCat | ls -lah /etc/hosts |
| 15:02.29 | ScaredyCat | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 163 2007-11-07 14:28 /etc/resolv.conf |
| 15:02.30 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: stuff that is currently weather dependant |
| 15:02.37 | ScaredyCat | is that what they mean ;) |
| 15:03.19 | emdete | ScaredyCat: interesting would be if dhcpc would write the file in the right place if the host pc would be the dhcpd |
| 15:03.26 | ScaredyCat | emdete: I've only ever bothered with etc |
| 15:03.45 | ScaredyCat | yes.. |
| 15:03.49 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Ahh, okay. Would rock if you could just grab it off the drive sometime so it can be finished/fixed/commited soon - no need to do it all yourself :) |
| 15:03.52 | emdete | ScaredyCat: all scripts look like if the expect a symlink in /etc |
| 15:04.09 | ScaredyCat | what distro ? |
| 15:04.26 | emdete | yours ;) see ppp's scripts |
| 15:05.39 | ScaredyCat | dagnabit |
| 15:07.00 | emdete | another ugly thing is ppp's script /etc/ppp/ip-down.d/92removedns that does not remove the created file. perhaps you could add my fix also |
| 15:07.22 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M9d83.m.pppool.de) |
| 15:07.42 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:07.43 | emdete | and last: /tmp is a dir and /etc/init.d/boot..? does a symlink in there to /var/tmp |
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| 15:21.32 | emdete | ScaredyCat: ? |
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| 15:24.59 | *** join/#openmoko hexa (n=hexa@67.70.246.100) |
| 15:26.39 | hexa | hi all, just a little question anyone aware of a sip client in dev or plans for any sip clients on the device , I'd be interested in joining such an effort especialy if it's base on the Telepathy framework? |
| 15:27.21 | CM | hexa: It has been discussed, and yes, Telepathy in particular :) |
| 15:27.46 | zash | but, sms-program? |
| 15:28.12 | hexa | CM: ok :) is there any wiki or anyting or it's too early yet? should I check the ml ? |
| 15:29.12 | CM | Searching the ml's would be good |
| 15:29.18 | hexa | CM: k thx :) |
| 15:29.29 | CM | And, theres' some telepathy devs in here too |
| 15:29.32 | zash | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007#IM.2FVOIP_using_telepathy |
| 15:30.17 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel_ (n=njp@5ac04792.bb.sky.com) |
| 15:30.26 | hexa | zash, k :) thx |
| 15:30.46 | CM | zash: Thanks :) |
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| 15:32.45 | fulgas | sip client would be nice |
| 15:32.47 | fulgas | :) |
| 15:33.53 | fulgas | yah.. more like it |
| 15:33.57 | *** join/#openmoko vciaglia (n=vciaglia@host51-1-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:34.46 | zash | that can choose best of [jabber over [wlan, bt, gprs], sms, etc..] |
| 15:35.41 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 15:35.55 | hexa | having the voice client choose best between wifi voip and gprs would be really cool too.. |
| 15:36.36 | zash | how about a framework for choosing best of diffrent connectiontypes |
| 15:37.10 | hexa | zash, seems like work for telepathy hehe :) I hope it's portable |
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| 15:38.41 | zash | aha, so thats what helepathy is for |
| 15:39.34 | folken | location or rather connectivity awareness. |
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| 15:43.05 | hexa | zash, yeah :) seems easy with this to chose which "connecter" will be used for a channel... just need a gprs and a sip connector and something the plug the right one in... |
| 15:43.19 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=quirc@gprs-pool-1-008.eplus-online.de) |
| 15:44.24 | zash | is there even a sms-app now? |
| 15:46.30 | seemant | I want my GTA02 |
| 15:46.45 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADB90.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:53.33 | CM | seemant: Meaning i also want yours ;) |
| 15:53.45 | zash | NO, I WANT IT! |
| 15:58.52 | ScaredyCat | wtf! |
| 15:59.00 | ScaredyCat | 4 bulb just ble |
| 15:59.01 | ScaredyCat | w |
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| 16:07.44 | seemant | CM: haha |
| 16:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko bardack (n=bardack@152.8-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:09.20 | bardack | hi everybody |
| 16:09.27 | seemant | hi |
| 16:09.35 | bardack | damn, I m doing the : make openmoko-devel-image ... How much place that will take? |
| 16:09.40 | bardack | :s |
| 16:09.50 | bardack | that make will explode my quota of 10Gb :) |
| 16:10.20 | ScaredyCat | all of it |
| 16:10.36 | ScaredyCat | it's like a giant sponge |
| 16:10.43 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@208.118.160.90) |
| 16:11.00 | bardack | ? |
| 16:11.08 | bardack | could you be more precise or not? :s |
| 16:11.27 | bardack | that will take the 10Gb of my quota? :s |
| 16:11.29 | torpor | are you using rm_work? |
| 16:11.34 | torpor | its about 8 gigs without rm_work |
| 16:11.38 | bardack | .... |
| 16:11.46 | bardack | I don't know about rm_work |
| 16:11.55 | bardack | just follow the tutorial for using on Xephyr |
| 16:12.31 | ScaredyCat | torpor: way more than 8 without rm_work |
| 16:12.38 | bardack | ... damn ... |
| 16:12.47 | bardack | I will see |
| 16:12.51 | bardack | thank you guys ;) |
| 16:12.59 | mmontour_ | The wiki says rm_work is the default as of mid-October |
| 16:13.10 | ScaredyCat | /dev/hda4 74G 37G 34G 52% /builder |
| 16:13.38 | ScaredyCat | Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on |
| 16:15.00 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 16:17.23 | _diego_ | at least 12Gb without rm_work ... |
| 16:20.55 | flexd | bardack: want me to check the size of my ~/moko ? I just compiled it during the night |
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| 16:23.30 | ScaredyCat | ScaredyCat: ping |
| 16:23.34 | flexd | err nvm, i have no idea what the command to see how big folders are |
| 16:23.36 | flexd | ScaredyCat: pong? |
| 16:23.50 | ScaredyCat | was testing my regex |
| 16:23.56 | ScaredyCat | ignores me |
| 16:24.11 | mmontour_ | flexd: du -sh ~/moko |
| 16:25.20 | flexd | mmontour_: du -sh supposed to take a long time? |
| 16:25.23 | ScaredyCat | no rm_work, includes all downloads |
| 16:25.29 | ScaredyCat | flexd: it's take ages |
| 16:25.34 | ScaredyCat | it'll |
| 16:25.34 | flexd | great. |
| 16:25.38 | flexd | why didnt i screen it >_< |
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| 16:26.23 | ScaredyCat | can you ping me pls |
| 16:26.39 | flexd | http://rafb.net/p/i8GFtP46.html |
| 16:26.41 | flexd | ScaredyCat: ping |
| 16:26.47 | flexd | What kind of regex are you making anyway? |
| 16:26.53 | ScaredyCat | that's a fail :( |
| 16:26.55 | flexd | (or do you mean real ping?) |
| 16:26.58 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 16:27.01 | flexd | What are you trying to do |
| 16:27.14 | ScaredyCat | notifications in konversation... |
| 16:27.25 | flexd | if 'nick' in data: do poo. |
| 16:27.37 | ScaredyCat | need to regex the ping |
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| 16:27.44 | flexd | to get the ping? |
| 16:27.57 | flexd | split the data? |
| 16:28.04 | flexd | regex sounds horribly advanced to get the text someone says |
| 16:28.06 | ScaredyCat | get the ping, for a series of nicks |
| 16:28.59 | ScaredyCat | it's either regex, or every possible combination of character case for each nick |
| 16:29.04 | flexd | What kind of data? |
| 16:29.12 | flexd | Paste a line containing the data or something |
| 16:29.28 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:29.30 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 16:29.37 | flexd | Split by : ? ;) |
| 16:29.46 | ScaredyCat | nothing... |
| 16:30.13 | ScaredyCat | it needs to match ScAreDYCat:piNG too |
| 16:30.22 | ScaredyCat | ie ignore case, ignore spaces... |
| 16:30.24 | flexd | hold on |
| 16:30.50 | ScaredyCat | I can only do regex or literals -- those are the two options in konversation |
| 16:31.09 | flexd | oh, konversation is some chat program or something? :/ |
| 16:31.18 | ScaredyCat | yes, irc client |
| 16:31.21 | ScaredyCat | kde |
| 16:32.53 | flexd | :( |
| 16:32.57 | flexd | I was thinking python |
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| 16:34.01 | don-o | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:34.59 | ScaredyCat | you did that yesterday,... remember.. :) |
| 16:35.12 | don-o | damn, i was hoping noone would remember |
| 16:35.17 | don-o | :) |
| 16:35.51 | CM | hehe |
| 16:35.52 | don-o | the address book app is a custom openmoko app, right? |
| 16:36.15 | ScaredyCat | yeah, think it is |
| 16:36.40 | don-o | i want to look at adding FOAF support to it |
| 16:37.44 | don-o | is there a wiki page for Address Book? im not finding one. |
| 16:38.36 | don-o | ah its called Contacts. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Contacts/2007.2 |
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| 16:43.40 | ScaredyCat | i thought it was going to be symcML'd |
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| 16:50.19 | bardack | and how can I know if I download rm_work too ? :s |
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| 16:51.29 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 16:51.48 | bardack | with make openmoko-devel-image |
| 16:51.56 | ScaredyCat | put: INHERIT += "rm_work" in your build/conf/local.conf |
| 16:52.23 | bardack | I don't have that line, then I don't take rm_work I think |
| 16:52.25 | ScaredyCat | rm_work means rm (remove) work dirs after i'm done using them |
| 16:52.40 | bardack | oki |
| 16:53.15 | ScaredyCat | some parts take lots of space to build, and other things rely on them, so it might use lots of space, then suddenly free it up... |
| 16:53.34 | bardack | okay |
| 16:53.38 | ScaredyCat | emdete: waht? |
| 16:54.14 | don-o | i filled up a 10GB disk even with rm_work |
| 16:55.32 | Ghiottone|work | don-o I think it happens only for the first build, not for incremental update and build |
| 16:56.12 | don-o | Ghiottone|work: yeah this was the first build. do you know how many GB it should use with rm_work? im using a vmware image with only a 12gb partition and ubuntu takes up 2-3 of those. |
| 16:56.12 | ScaredyCat | yeah, it's usually a full build from the start that chews up space. |
| 16:57.58 | ScaredyCat | :o 17gb already this month |
| 16:58.13 | Ghiottone|work | don-o sorry I don't have it with me right now. but you could try to do a make build-package-<packagename> for those packages that use a lot of space |
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| 16:58.33 | Ghiottone|work | don-o that should force the stage and rm_work phase |
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| 17:03.52 | ScaredyCat | http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=19623 |
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| 17:10.33 | jeddy3 | ScaredyCat, omg...here we go again :P |
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| 17:12.33 | jeddy3 | btw... i reccon this android impact is so vastly far beyond any iphone-hype |
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| 17:25.27 | ozarka | ScaredyCat: I think people would camp out for Neo's. If there was store. |
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| 17:25.45 | PBeck | hi |
| 17:25.56 | ozarka | Virtual camping on the wiki is easier; |
| 17:25.58 | ozarka | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo |
| 17:26.08 | ozarka | Only buyers. No sellers so far. |
| 17:27.20 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 17:27.43 | ozarka | Good thing about the wiki is you can jump to the head of the line. |
| 17:28.08 | ozarka | You can even erase all the people behind you. :-) |
| 17:28.35 | ScaredyCat | lol - but the evidence remains |
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| 17:31.09 | aga1nst | hello room |
| 17:31.19 | aga1nst | any1 from germany in here? |
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| 17:33.02 | Gareth | good morning. |
| 17:33.23 | aga1nst | good MORNIN?:D |
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| 17:48.20 | don-o | do i need OE.mtn.bz2? its already got OE.mtn |
| 17:49.23 | CM | you can remove the bz2 |
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| 18:27.41 | ckuethe | userfriendly.org today is good.... |
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| 18:46.58 | ScaredyCat | that's a fecking shite servr |
| 18:48.19 | torpor | nice deal: |
| 18:48.20 | torpor | http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A4842001# |
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| 18:55.39 | nelson | Is Android just a press release? |
| 18:55.39 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 18:55.39 | SpeedEvil | At the moment |
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| 18:57.28 | pH5 | actually there's already fallout from that. google has set up a git repo for msm7k soc. |
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| 18:59.59 | Zoolooc | guess the most important thing is kernel support for the msm7k soc, then one could run anything on it, right? |
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| 19:06.56 | daMaestro | i like the new start screen or "home" |
| 19:07.06 | daMaestro | granted the clock is a little.. ummm.. yeah, it's still cool |
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| 19:07.51 | anrp | D:? |
| 19:07.52 | anrp | pics! |
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| 19:26.41 | cb22 | hmm, a 312mhz xscale ipaq with a screen of 240x240 can play back a full series episode (350mb, 25fps) at 90% speed... |
| 19:27.16 | guaqua | at 90% speed :) |
| 19:27.34 | cb22 | true |
| 19:27.46 | cb22 | but thats a 350mb file at quite a few times the screens res |
| 19:28.27 | cb22 | 7??x4?? or so |
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| 19:29.20 | SpeedEvil | a full series what ep? |
| 19:29.28 | cb22 | prison break |
| 19:29.41 | cb22 | season 3 episode 7 |
| 19:29.44 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 19:30.06 | cb22 | maybe tcpmp has one-up on mplayer in terms of speed on arm? |
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| 19:31.24 | pH5 | cb22: what ipaq, does it have ati graphics? |
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| 19:59.49 | guaqua | libusb-native doesn't build |
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| 20:00.42 | anrp | ze error? |
| 20:01.22 | guaqua | g++: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.1.3/../../../../lib/crtn.o: No such file or directory make[3]: *** [libusbpp.la] Error 1 |
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| 20:02.53 | guaqua | looks like i'm lacking some libraries...or there's something else |
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| 20:31.01 | ruxpin | what does crtn.o do? |
| 20:31.21 | SpeedEvil | It's a bluetooth curtain-opener protocol. |
| 20:31.56 | ruxpin | what are the bluetooth-libraries called? |
| 20:32.09 | SpeedEvil | That wasn't actually serious,s orry. |
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| 20:32.53 | bardack | youhou 'make' finished :) |
| 20:32.57 | ruxpin | crtn <=> certification? |
| 20:33.42 | Writchie | ruxpin: bluez-libs |
| 20:34.31 | gggggig | are there new roms of openmoko for htc magigian? |
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| 20:35.17 | mmontour_ | ruxpin: it's a "C runtime" library (standard part of glibc) |
| 20:35.22 | ruxpin | Writchie: is it linux in this device? |
| 20:35.59 | Writchie | ruxpin: which device? neo? |
| 20:36.27 | ruxpin | neo1973 |
| 20:36.29 | torpor | crtn = crt for the 'n' memory model. |
| 20:36.44 | Writchie | ruxpin: yes |
| 20:36.54 | torpor | crt = c runtime |
| 20:37.16 | vciaglia | umh...what is the "Setting antenna power" error? |
| 20:38.08 | ruxpin | is openmoko based on any existing distribution? |
| 20:40.12 | Writchie | ruxpin: sort of angstrom - debian like |
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| 20:40.26 | Writchie | see openembedded and the openmoko.org wiki |
| 20:40.26 | vciaglia | umh...i can't see any applications in the menu, why? |
| 20:40.26 | ruxpin | Writchie: does it use something like portage to build the software? |
| 20:40.28 | Mek | ah, it isn't only me :) (well, I have the media player and the games in the menu, but nothing else) |
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| 20:40.50 | Writchie | ruxpin: open embedded based on bitbake |
| 20:41.18 | Writchie | bitbake was loosely portage like atleast originally |
| 20:41.48 | ruxpin | aaah :) |
| 20:41.49 | Writchie | building openmoko not for the faint of heart |
| 20:41.54 | mmontour_ | Anyone have any ideas about an openmoko-appmanager2 build failure, http://www.pastebin.ca/766363 ? |
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| 20:50.39 | bardack | mmm |
| 20:50.40 | bardack | I ve some troubles with Xephyr |
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| 20:50.40 | bardack | if somebody has already done this on Ubuntu or whatever |
| 20:50.40 | bardack | I finish the : make openmoko-devel-image |
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| 20:51.13 | bardack | chroot moko/mokobox /bin/sh |
| 20:51.13 | bardack | change the configurations (DISPLAY=:1 ...) |
| 20:51.13 | bardack | and after in an other Konsole, I want to launch Xephyr |
| 20:51.13 | ScaredyCat | weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
| 20:51.13 | bardack | and it doesnt work |
| 20:51.13 | enjahova | what happens? |
| 20:51.26 | bardack | but I can launch that with Konsole (using KDE) ? |
| 20:52.12 | enjahova | i'm using gnome |
| 20:52.15 | bardack | I will copy the error |
| 20:52.22 | enjahova | but what happens when you launch xephyr? |
| 20:52.22 | bardack | on pastebin, moment pliz ;) |
| 20:52.23 | enjahova | ok |
| 20:54.19 | bardack | mmm now Xephyr launch |
| 20:54.32 | bardack | in the terminal I ve done the : eval (...) |
| 20:54.38 | bardack | and I just launch /etc/X11/Xsession |
| 20:54.41 | bardack | and wait now :) |
| 20:55.30 | bardack | after the launch, it will take time to have something in Xephyr? |
| 20:56.20 | torpor | i want pyglet on neo! :) |
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| 20:58.13 | enjahova | it should take a short amount of time |
| 20:58.50 | enjahova | wow pyglet looks smooth torpor |
| 20:58.54 | torpor | yeah |
| 20:58.55 | bardack | 5minutes after ... |
| 20:58.58 | torpor | i'd love to have it on neo .. |
| 20:59.54 | bardack | I will paste the problem |
| 21:00.17 | enjahova | torpor how big is it? |
| 21:00.49 | enjahova | so you think this is an adequate replacement for pygame? |
| 21:02.53 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@208.118.160.90) |
| 21:03.43 | bardack | mmmm I don't understand |
| 21:03.58 | torpor | hell yeah its tons better than pygame |
| 21:04.00 | bardack | I see nothing in Xephyr but if I do : ps faux , I see openmoko-start and openmoko-dailer |
| 21:05.07 | enjahova | so you did the eval(... stuff in the chroot konsole right? |
| 21:05.22 | bardack | http://pastebin.com/m12985335 |
| 21:05.28 | bardack | yeah I think |
| 21:05.29 | enjahova | and both displays are set to the same one |
| 21:05.29 | bardack | :s |
| 21:06.02 | enjahova | so your xephyr command also uses display:1? |
| 21:06.14 | bardack | I m on a laptop |
| 21:06.15 | enjahova | cuz it looks like openmoko started just fine |
| 21:06.22 | bardack | I ve only 1 display |
| 21:06.27 | bardack | yeah if I do : ps faux |
| 21:06.28 | enjahova | Xephyr :1 -ac -2button -host-cursor -screen 480x640 |
| 21:06.32 | enjahova | you did that? |
| 21:06.54 | bardack | I see |
| 21:06.54 | bardack | root 6045 24.6 0.2 11996 3016 pts/1 R+ 22:04 0:22 openmoko-today |
| 21:06.54 | bardack | root 6047 24.6 0.3 11832 3172 pts/1 R+ 22:04 0:22 openmoko-dialer |
| 21:06.54 | bardack | root 6049 24.5 0.2 8800 2200 pts/1 R+ 22:04 0:22 matchbox-panel-2 --start-applets systray,startup --end-applets openmoko-panel |
| 21:06.57 | bardack | yep |
| 21:07.02 | bardack | first : launch Xephyr |
| 21:07.10 | enjahova | you exported the DISPLAY, LANG and HOME in the chroot too? |
| 21:07.10 | bardack | then /etc/X11/Xsession |
| 21:07.34 | bardack | each time I do : chroot /... I need to do again the configuration ? |
| 21:08.06 | bardack | ok then I stop Xephyr, stop chroot and launch again to be sure |
| 21:08.43 | bardack | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:08.47 | bardack | when I launch the chroot |
| 21:08.52 | bardack | it is normal I think no? |
| 21:09.24 | enjahova | i don't get that message |
| 21:09.27 | enjahova | maybe you need to sudo chroot? |
| 21:09.29 | bardack | mmmm |
| 21:09.37 | bardack | I do in su |
| 21:09.39 | enjahova | oh ok |
| 21:09.41 | enjahova | hmm |
| 21:09.58 | enjahova | you shouldn't have to export everytime |
| 21:10.04 | enjahova | just type export in chroot and check the variables |
| 21:10.11 | bardack | yeah |
| 21:11.07 | bardack | it is a problem that he can't access tty I think |
| 21:11.20 | enjahova | i see |
| 21:11.34 | bardack | I do the configuration again, to try |
| 21:11.38 | enjahova | you mounted /dev and proc? |
| 21:12.30 | *** part/#openmoko gggggig (n=utente@host160-208-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:12.43 | bardack | yep |
| 21:12.45 | bardack | same problem |
| 21:12.50 | bardack | I launch Xephyr |
| 21:12.57 | bardack | then , /etc/X11/Xsession |
| 21:13.06 | bardack | My computer works |
| 21:13.31 | bardack | ps faux give: openmoko-today , openmoko-dialer are launch |
| 21:13.44 | bardack | then the problem is the tty not accessible when I m root I think |
| 21:17.54 | flexd | sort of a quick question; what do you guys use to read the mailing lists? |
| 21:18.02 | flexd | Just the browser or is there some sort of client? :/ |
| 21:18.14 | flexd | I havent really been in any mailing lists before |
| 21:18.17 | flexd | or do you get mail >_> |
| 21:18.41 | flexd | (i feel silly now, getting mail kinda sounds natural) |
| 21:18.42 | bardack | get mail in gmail for me |
| 21:18.55 | flexd | i guess i just need to sign up on mailing lists then |
| 21:19.01 | bardack | yep |
| 21:19.28 | bardack | rahhh I don't understand ... 3 days to have all I need to launch openMoko on Xephyr ... and now on the last line ... doesn't work ... |
| 21:20.23 | hrw | flexd: few choices: you can get mails to you, you can read on gmane, you can look at online archives (worst way) |
| 21:20.25 | enjahova | i don't know = |
| 21:20.27 | enjahova | =\ |
| 21:20.38 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-9-117.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:20.50 | bardack | me not :s |
| 21:22.17 | enjahova | you might want to try Xoo |
| 21:22.25 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:22.32 | enjahova | its very similar, replaces Xephyr |
| 21:23.22 | bardack | mmm I don't know Xoo |
| 21:23.24 | bardack | I will try |
| 21:23.36 | Gareth | http://digg.com/linux_unix/SCALE_Looking_for_Free_Open_Source_Projects |
| 21:23.52 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFC2EE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:25.21 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 21:27.13 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 21:28.02 | bardack | need to launch Xephyr in root too? |
| 21:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko jake_ramone (n=jake@X0c09.x.pppool.de) |
| 21:30.18 | bardack | don't understand :( pfff |
| 21:30.31 | bardack | oh that's run |
| 21:30.41 | bardack | gsmd error |
| 21:30.59 | bardack | see the desktop and just when I move the mouse, just see the tollbar on the top |
| 21:31.02 | bardack | the clock disapears |
| 21:32.39 | bardack | launch is ok , error is: Dialer : Error connecting gsmd |
| 21:32.56 | bardack | at that moment I see the Home Icon, the toolbar on the right |
| 21:33.11 | bardack | just below I see icon with an X (don't find the picture maybe) |
| 21:33.22 | bardack | below: the clock with the correct hour |
| 21:33.26 | bardack | and the date |
| 21:33.45 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 21:33.45 | enjahova | you just click ok on the dialer error |
| 21:33.52 | enjahova | it will always do that on emulation |
| 21:34.00 | bardack | ok |
| 21:34.24 | enjahova | you may be missing some icons if you didnt copy them like one step in the tutorial |
| 21:34.26 | enjahova | i had a problem with that |
| 21:34.31 | enjahova | infact i still have a problem with that |
| 21:34.39 | enjahova | where some icons are missing |
| 21:34.41 | bardack | mmm not stable :s |
| 21:34.56 | enjahova | yeah =\ |
| 21:35.04 | bardack | I click on the + below |
| 21:35.07 | bardack | see media player |
| 21:35.11 | bardack | double click ... freeze |
| 21:35.23 | bardack | and my cpu turn crazy :) |
| 21:35.40 | bardack | 10Gb for that :| |
| 21:37.00 | enjahova | haha |
| 21:37.07 | enjahova | i never messed with the media player |
| 21:37.21 | enjahova | i just want to be able to test some gtk apps |
| 21:37.39 | bardack | hehe |
| 21:37.45 | bardack | ok then my 10Gb quota for that |
| 21:37.46 | bardack | cool :) |
| 21:38.03 | enjahova | think of it as dedication :P |
| 21:38.11 | bardack | lol yep |
| 21:39.03 | bardack | then, sleep time :) |
| 21:39.10 | bardack | I hope that on the Neo that works better :) |
| 21:40.22 | enjahova | i assume so |
| 21:40.34 | bardack | hehe |
| 21:40.37 | bardack | see you guys ;) |
| 21:40.40 | zecke | ljp: yet? |
| 21:45.47 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@host132.natpool.mwn.de) |
| 21:46.23 | josch | hi! how can I receive sms with openmoko? I tried libgsmd-tool -m shell but it segfaulted |
| 21:49.01 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-9-117.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:49.02 | ljp | zecke: here |
| 21:49.45 | *** join/#openmoko mvanes (n=michaelv@host81-158-225-24.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:52.15 | zecke | ljp: telco is in one hour? |
| 21:52.19 | zecke | oops :) |
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| 22:11.07 | mmontour | josch: libgsmd-tool should work, but it's picky about syntax. Try sl=1 to list, sr=3 to read msg 3, etc. |
| 22:11.45 | josch | mmontour, thx will try that |
| 22:12.35 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B2383.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:14.40 | josch | wow, this is somewhat interesting! sl=1 shows me messages I got the LAST YEAR! |
| 22:15.48 | josch | how do I get my current messages? |
| 22:16.23 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B2383.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:16.46 | josch | only sl=1 will work sl=2 etc dowas nothing |
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| 22:18.42 | balrog-kun | josch: sl=4 means show all in PDU mode |
| 22:19.15 | josch | so how do I get my present messages? |
| 22:19.35 | balrog-kun | what do you mean by present? |
| 22:19.37 | josch | I was suprised to see that my provider saves all my messages even up to now |
| 22:19.38 | balrog-kun | not older than X ? |
| 22:19.52 | balrog-kun | they aren't saved by your provider |
| 22:19.56 | balrog-kun | they are on your card |
| 22:20.12 | josch | with sl=1 I get 15 messages from 2006 |
| 22:20.26 | josch | so how do I check if someone send me an sms and read this? |
| 22:21.03 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-129-242.bas502.dsl.esat.net) |
| 22:21.25 | balrog-kun | 0 means show unread only (marking them as read at the same time) |
| 22:21.39 | balrog-kun | check the docs btw. |
| 22:22.16 | josch | i already did sl=0 but nothing was shown |
| 22:22.20 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=quirc@gprs-pool-1-002.eplus-online.de) |
| 22:22.31 | josch | so this means that I do not received a message? |
| 22:22.36 | balrog-kun | you have no unread messages |
| 22:22.44 | josch | ah thx!! |
| 22:22.56 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@41.233.212.72) |
| 22:22.56 | balrog-kun | i only always use sl=4 |
| 22:23.19 | josch | what does it do? |
| 22:24.01 | josch | i tried it and get the same output as with sl=1 |
| 22:24.10 | balrog-kun | shows ALL messages (as i said three minutes ago) |
| 22:24.25 | josch | sry must have overread it |
| 22:24.37 | josch | where can I look up the meaning of the numbers myself? |
| 22:25.17 | balrog-kun | in the GSM07.05 specification |
| 22:25.31 | balrog-kun | there are only five numbers allowed |
| 22:28.53 | hrw | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1O2jcfOylU |
| 22:33.14 | *** join/#openmoko greentux__ (n=lemke@Z71c6.z.pppool.de) |
| 22:37.20 | summatusmentis | I saw something recently about GTA02 not supporting one of the four bands it's supposed to? Maybe the 850Mhz band? |
| 22:37.55 | hrw | gta is 900/1800/1900 only |
| 22:38.25 | summatusmentis | was the plan for it to be 850 as well? |
| 22:39.05 | hrw | cant tell - I am not in openmoko HW team |
| 22:39.26 | summatusmentis | hrw: mmm, ok. That's a bummer |
| 22:39.37 | hrw | bye |
| 22:39.40 | summatusmentis | sleep well |
| 22:40.35 | ozarka | summatusmentis: See the links on this page for an explanation about the 850 issue. |
| 22:40.43 | ozarka | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo |
| 22:43.05 | *** join/#openmoko eike (n=chatzill@vpn72.mip.uni-hannover.de) |
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| 22:45.28 | summatusmentis | ozarka: oh... well, that's unfortunate |
| 22:46.28 | ozarka | Yeah. It certainly generated lots of traffic on the mailing list. |
| 22:47.54 | summatusmentis | I'm sure. That kinda makes it pointless for a lot of US/north american users |
| 22:49.18 | ozarka | Sort of. |
| 22:49.30 | ozarka | I'm in the US and I get reception on my Neo. |
| 22:50.04 | summatusmentis | where do you live? Many places, outside of cities don't use 1900 band |
| 22:50.04 | ozarka | I would get reception in a wider area if I had 850. |
| 22:50.44 | ozarka | But there is just no way the Neo could be my primary phone, so it's not an issue. |
| 22:50.59 | flexd | not yet anyway |
| 22:51.27 | summatusmentis | for me, it means that i can't use the neo, because the two places I live, use the 850 band |
| 22:52.19 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A34C80.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:52.25 | ozarka | Yeah. It sucks that it doesn't have it, and it sucks that it was sold with false specifications. |
| 22:53.25 | ozarka | I think the OM team has had to put up with a lot of grief because they released something before it was ready for the market. |
| 22:53.26 | don-o | ive had the same non-850 (triband) gms phone for 5 years. |
| 22:53.27 | Writchie | ozarka: and no explanation as to why (or apology) - just oh you idiots in the U.S. don't use the german band |
| 22:53.58 | don-o | 850 is the new-commer to the US |
| 22:54.19 | ozarka | First, people complained because of all the shipping problems (delays, tarriffs, no communication) |
| 22:55.36 | torpor | bah! |
| 22:55.47 | torpor | what part of "its a developer release so you can start writing apps for it" don't people understand? |
| 22:56.12 | ozarka | If they just kept it all private, they could have avoided the headache. |
| 22:56.29 | torpor | what headache? there are cool coders working on openmoko apps as we speak |
| 22:56.30 | ozarka | But then we would have just complained that they weren't releasing soon enough. |
| 22:56.35 | torpor | thats worth the effort. |
| 22:56.41 | mjr | Indeed. And one of the points here is early availability. |
| 22:56.49 | ozarka | torpor: the headache of listening to people complaining. |
| 22:57.03 | ozarka | I'm glad they released. |
| 22:57.07 | torpor | there are too many people buying the neo1973 right now expecting a consumer experience |
| 22:57.19 | ozarka | torpor: I agree. |
| 22:57.34 | *** join/#openmoko PITABoy (i=c06843de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-0e31efc08ada9b64) |
| 22:57.38 | torpor | lotsa wannabe coders who are really only playing consumer brinkmanship and then whining about it instead of actually doing something useful with the hardware. |
| 22:57.38 | ozarka | No matter how many disclaimers, people still expect to use it as a consumer device. |
| 22:58.15 | mjr | (Of course, "developer release" or not, it was sold as quad, so returns should be taken from those who want to, but anyway, bickering about it isn't going to improve the situation in any way) |
| 22:58.32 | ozarka | mjr: Have you seen the sales page? |
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| 22:58.50 | ozarka | No one is putting their device up for sale. |
| 22:58.58 | torpor | later i'm out. night time here. |
| 22:59.32 | mjr | ozarka, that's a good sign, of course |
| 23:00.01 | ozarka | It's bad that they sold is as quad band and it wasn't, but I think that just shows how immature OM is as an organization. |
| 23:00.09 | mjr | (and I won't be, but I'm not in the unpromised land of GSM) |
| 23:00.26 | ozarka | They don't have the infrastructure to do this right. |
| 23:00.29 | mjr | (though, realistically, I wouldn't be tossing mine anyway) |
| 23:00.35 | ozarka | But that doesn't mean they should give up. |
| 23:00.40 | mjr | *nod* |
| 23:00.48 | don-o | an ebay search for neo1973 shows no units for sale. |
| 23:02.32 | mjr | there was one guy on community list who mentioned he'd be wanting a refund if the SIM problem wouldn't go away soon, that's all I've really seen of people wanting to get rid of theirs |
| 23:02.58 | don-o | i wouldnt mind picking up a gta01 for $100 |
| 23:02.59 | PITABoy | what is the sim problem |
| 23:03.00 | Zoolooc | folks, if these phones can be bought for money, usually somebody who buys, expects something. this company behind the neo thinks it can make both money and development by those who pay |
| 23:03.20 | flexd | They way i see it is this way; If you want and can develop something for OM/the neo, and you want one. Why not buy one when gta02 comes out? |
| 23:03.38 | mjr | Zoolooc, they can expect something; early access to an open phone for development |
| 23:03.41 | ozarka | Zoolooc: How much money do you think they're making by selling a few hundred phones? |
| 23:03.44 | *** join/#openmoko tobi (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com) |
| 23:03.46 | torpor | i bought a gta01 so i could write apps for it before the gta02 is released, and then when the gta02 is released, benefit from the exposure... |
| 23:03.49 | flexd | So what, the software isnt entierly end-user yet, but it's gonna improve, and when it does either with you helping or not, it's gonna be a proper phone. |
| 23:03.52 | ozarka | I have a Neo and I got what I expected to get. |
| 23:04.05 | mjr | and indeed, as ozarka said, tha GTA01 isn't likely to have made immediate business sense |
| 23:05.01 | Zoolooc | not much, probably. but expecting enthousiasts to do the whole hard work, and also having them pay, is a bit adventurous, imho |
| 23:05.24 | mjr | Zoolooc, it would be. If they were doing that, you know. But you're just making up strawmen now |
| 23:05.51 | ozarka | OM has given free phones to developers who helped out. |
| 23:06.27 | flexd | Me personally; I'm not a very experienced coder, i can't make advanced shit that will benefit OM in any way (afaik anyway) in C and stuff. But i really really want a phone in the future, both because i want to learn more programming and linux, and it's a fucking awsome phone. I can't really help much with stuff, but im gonna be making alot of stuff in python when i get the phone. |
| 23:06.27 | PITABoy | if i buy a gta01 or a gta02 will it work as a phone of just as a pda |
| 23:06.27 | *** join/#openmoko t0h (i=thelinev@nikita.tnnet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:06.37 | ozarka | There's a nomination page on the wiki if you want to nominate someone (or yourself) |
| 23:06.38 | ozarka | PITABoy: If you buy a gta01, it may not even work as a pda. |
| 23:06.41 | *** join/#openmoko raynet (i=raynet@thalassa.inside.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:06.45 | ozarka | Don't expect to do anything "useful" with it at all. |
| 23:06.54 | PITABoy | why is that |
| 23:06.56 | Zoolooc | see, that's the problem |
| 23:06.58 | ozarka | gta02 may or may not be any better. |
| 23:07.08 | PITABoy | i thought that they had openmoko working |
| 23:07.16 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz (i=ynezz@ibawizard.net) |
| 23:07.23 | ozarka | It's a developer preview so people can start writing apps. |
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| 23:07.44 | Zoolooc | which is ok |
| 23:07.49 | mjr | and I don't see why gta01 wouldn't become a proper phone eventually, it's mostly a matter of software maturing |
| 23:08.10 | ozarka | Sure. It might be a great phone in 6 months. |
| 23:08.17 | mjr | that said, if you're like Zoolooc here, simply don't buy the phone before it's marketed to consumers. |
| 23:08.19 | Zoolooc | what I don't really find ok, is inviting them to pay for it, beforte there is any proper software available |
| 23:08.41 | flexd | afaik gta02 is supposed to be the end-user hardware right? |
| 23:08.43 | mjr | Zoolooc, what if we wanted to? |
| 23:08.46 | mjr | flexd, yes. |
| 23:08.47 | ozarka | Zoolooc: There are so many warning about this, I don't think anyone was fooled. |
| 23:08.55 | ozarka | I wasn't fooled. I got what I wanted. |
| 23:09.12 | don-o | i wasn't fooled, i opted not to buy one. |
| 23:09.15 | flexd | mjr: thought so, so even if the software isnt done now... It will be in the future, and then the phone will be 100% usable like it should be |
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| 23:09.30 | mjr | flexd, that's the plan at least. |
| 23:09.34 | Zoolooc | I would have bought it and started coding, if it at least had "some" working OS (like WM) to be able to also do something useful with it, while not coding for linux on it |
| 23:09.35 | ozarka | I think gta02 is supposed to be more consumer oriented, but apparently it's still going to lack 850. |
| 23:09.36 | flexd | mhm |
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| 23:09.46 | don-o | as a lurker, i would have thought the basic phone functionality would be stable by now. |
| 23:09.49 | Zoolooc | it's just that what I wanted to point out |
| 23:10.06 | ozarka | Zoolooc: You would have bought it if it had Windows Mobile? |
| 23:10.28 | don-o | Zoolooc: it has "some" working OS -> linux |
| 23:10.32 | mjr | A working OS has been there for a while now. Working mobile framework and apps? Now that's a work in progress :] |
| 23:10.45 | Zoolooc | if it was a pone almost like any other, but with available documentation in order to have enthousiast devs access needed information to write software |
| 23:11.05 | PITABoy | why dont you take a phone/pda that is already working and make openmoko just a software project instead of a hardware and software prohect |
| 23:11.26 | PITABoy | project* |
| 23:11.32 | don-o | PITABoy: because the people who make that hardware arent likely to play along and you need their help |
| 23:11.39 | mjr | Zoolooc, so it's not for you yet. That doesn't mean they shouldn't sell it to us. |
| 23:11.51 | Zoolooc | ok, I judged after the affirmation "it does not do anything useful yet", or something like that |
| 23:12.00 | abraxa_ | PITABoy: Such hardware isn't guaranteed to be as open as possible - which is what OM is all about |
| 23:12.44 | flexd | hmmm |
| 23:12.54 | Zoolooc | didn't say thy shouldn't sell it to you, I complained that this development model seems far too ineffective, it seems to me that it does not attract enough devs |
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| 23:13.02 | flexd | what are the odds of oe booting flawlessly on my ipaq 3360 (which is already running opie) ^^ ? |
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| 23:13.48 | don-o | Zoolooc: there are 299 nicks in this channel. |
| 23:14.03 | don-o | Zoolooc: its one of the larger projects on freenode |
| 23:14.44 | Zoolooc | ok, and for how long was the openmoko phone announced on the site, with screenshots and bells and whistles? |
| 23:14.59 | PITABoy | that is because people can put openmoko on other phones too |
| 23:15.12 | don-o | Zoolooc: we all agree the release process was late and not communicated well. |
| 23:15.13 | PITABoy | not everyone is here just for the neo |
| 23:15.26 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jaebird@unaffiliated/jaebird) |
| 23:16.04 | don-o | i wish mokoninja would post some more youtube videos. |
| 23:16.24 | Zoolooc | sure, not everyone, hence not everyone bought it , see? :-) |
| 23:16.33 | mjr | PITABoy, you're welcome to be here for non-neo hardware, but you shouldn't wonder if most of us want to support hardware designed to run GNU/Linux from the get-go, with the manufacturer's support... |
| 23:16.49 | jaebird | don-o: you should add EU-Triband to the topic |
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| 23:16.56 | ozarka | A lot more people tried to buy the Neo than could get it. |
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| 23:17.13 | don-o | jaebird: its an open topic. it has my name on it because i accidentally reset it when i was trying to read it :) |
| 23:17.23 | jaebird | heh |
| 23:17.25 | ozarka | I bet if you put one up on eBay you could sell it for full price. |
| 23:17.30 | PITABoy | i was just wondering because other people were complaining about how they dont like the neo |
| 23:17.51 | jaebird | i've been weeping for days now :( |
| 23:18.02 | don-o | jaebird: i hope people dont think the sarcasm in the topic are my words. |
| 23:18.08 | PITABoy | why would someone buy one off of ebay used for full price when they could get a new one for the same??? |
| 23:18.34 | ozarka | Because they're sold out. |
| 23:18.35 | Zoolooc | oh, the topic, now I see |
| 23:18.47 | don-o | PITABoy: because buying one from FIC is a total crap-shoot. |
| 23:18.50 | Zoolooc | well, my kaiser looks better than the neo |
| 23:19.07 | don-o | PITABoy: off ebay you're likely to actually receive the phone, which is a big step up from the openmoko.com order page |
| 23:19.12 | PITABoy | don-o what is a crap-shoot about it |
| 23:19.19 | jaebird | don-o: I dare you to say andr*id :) |
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| 23:19.35 | don-o | PITABoy: look at the communitiy mailing list in August |
| 23:19.48 | PITABoy | so you are saying that FIC doesnt send out orders? |
| 23:19.48 | mjr | PITABoy, demand far exceeds supply |
| 23:19.58 | jaebird | they have to make them first |
| 23:20.02 | ozarka | Have you seen the screenshots for the first Android application? |
| 23:20.02 | PITABoy | oh |
| 23:20.06 | mjr | (also, shipping is muchos expensive to non-US) |
| 23:20.17 | PITABoy | no what is the Android app |
| 23:20.28 | Zoolooc | fuck andr*id, it's the kernel support which is important, right PITABoy? |
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| 23:20.57 | ozarka | http://valleywag.com/tech/exclusive/screenshots-of-first-googlephone-app-320226.php |
| 23:21.11 | PITABoy | yes we need kernel support |
| 23:21.16 | PITABoy | software comes later |
| 23:21.25 | jaebird | forget ebay: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo |
| 23:21.29 | Zoolooc | and now it seems much closer |
| 23:21.37 | ozarka | But no one's selling. |
| 23:21.43 | ozarka | Three buyers and no sellers. |
| 23:21.53 | jaebird | sure...soon enough |
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| 23:22.07 | jaebird | I know of 2 that may be put up |
| 23:22.09 | jaebird | :) |
| 23:22.15 | ozarka | jaebird: Are you going to sell yours? |
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| 23:22.40 | jaebird | still in negotiations...with myself, hence the weeping |
| 23:22.45 | don-o | ha |
| 23:22.48 | PITABoy | Android application is for the gphone |
| 23:23.04 | PITABoy | Does it run linux I heard that it runs java |
| 23:23.15 | ozarka | No one knows what it runs. |
| 23:23.32 | PITABoy | oh |
| 23:23.33 | ozarka | There are google people in #android if you want to go ask them. |
| 23:24.28 | don-o | ozarka: heh. i didnt even think to check for that channel. thx. |
| 23:24.40 | don-o | jaebird: lol. |
| 23:25.20 | PITABoy | np jaebird |
| 23:25.20 | jaebird | :) |
| 23:25.31 | jaebird | PITA...i get it |
| 23:25.38 | don-o | oh i though it was the bread |
| 23:25.40 | flexd | I feel stupid now |
| 23:25.42 | ozarka | PITABoy: You are a very accomplished troll. |
| 23:26.02 | ozarka | I think you're go them all worked up over there. :-) |
| 23:26.12 | flexd | How do i change the default window manager in debian? >_> (thought i'd try enlightenment since everyone says it's great since raster joined) |
| 23:26.16 | flexd | I somehow forgot how : |
| 23:27.12 | flexd | (feel free to mock me, it's pretty basic >_>) |
| 23:27.14 | PITABoy | check out what I just posted in the #android forums |
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| 23:27.41 | jaebird | PITABoy: no response...is it dead over there? |
| 23:27.53 | don-o | they know better than to respond |
| 23:27.58 | ozarka | It's pretty dead. |
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| 23:28.47 | ozarka | There are google people there, but they just tell you they can't say anything until monday. |
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| 23:29.05 | PITABoy | they said "I dont see the point |
| 23:29.07 | PITABoy | " |
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| 23:29.43 | ozarka | So has anyone got so far as to write a hello world app for OM? |
| 23:30.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1001 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net |
| 23:30.01 | cdbot2 | * * Suggestion: Remove Bitstream Vera fonts from the default image |
| 23:30.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1001 |
| 23:30.20 | ozarka | I got MokoMakeFile to fully compile, and I was going to follow the instructions for making and installing an app, |
| 23:30.32 | ozarka | but my build image wasn't very functional. |
| 23:30.47 | ozarka | I would rather just write an app and install it onto one of the existing images. |
| 23:30.53 | flexd | What font does the wiki use? |
| 23:30.55 | ozarka | But I don't see instructions for doing that. |
| 23:30.59 | flexd | It just looks amazing o_0 |
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| 23:32.53 | abraxa_ | ozarka: I personally just prefer starting with autotools and a .bb recipe, though I can see that the learning curve is a little too steep if you only want to write an application. |
| 23:33.15 | abraxa_ | In the end however it pays off if you want to get it included in OE anyway. |
| 23:33.43 | ozarka | The problem is the image I end up with isn't useful, so I never get past building the OS. |
| 23:34.19 | ozarka | If I did write an app with autotools and bb, how would I install it on the device? |
| 23:34.30 | abraxa_ | I don't flash my own image either (though I could of course), I just use it to build the app |
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| 23:34.45 | abraxa_ | You could use the ipkg mechanism, for example |
| 23:35.31 | ozarka | Can you make the app show up in the OM menu? |
| 23:36.14 | abraxa_ | Well yes, I wote the media player that way |
| 23:36.27 | abraxa_ | (still am, actually) |
| 23:36.56 | ozarka | Can you recommend a wiki page to get started? |
| 23:37.24 | ozarka | I was going to follow this one: |
| 23:37.26 | ozarka | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course |
| 23:38.02 | ozarka | But I thought that would build my app into the image. |
| 23:38.16 | abraxa_ | It does, though your local one |
| 23:39.11 | abraxa_ | I guess I can see tomorrow if the wiki article works, but no guarantee |
| 23:39.57 | ozarka | Thanks. I don't want you to go out of your way. |
| 23:40.14 | ozarka | I'm just trying to get some advice from people who have done it already. |
| 23:40.35 | mmontour | ozarka: have you read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_a_hello_world_application ? |
| 23:41.48 | ozarka | I've read that. But I thought the crash course looked more comprehensive. |
| 23:42.10 | ozarka | Anyway, I'll try it out tomorrow and see where I get. |
| 23:42.22 | ozarka | Thanks for the advice. |
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