IRC log for #openmoko on 20071107

00:00.07bedboihi there.
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00:22.14ljphmm.. rain...
00:23.20zeckehehe
00:26.23ljpzecke: you should try to get down under sometime
00:26.35zeckeljp: hehe
00:26.47zeckeljp: I should try to be home before 2 am tonight
00:27.11ljpya.. i remember those times....
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00:44.30sagacis|sadHey, I found something useful... http://www.secondrotation.com/
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01:30.37bobesponjaso OpenMoko is going to use E17 or is that already the case?
01:34.31balrog-kunis it? i don't think so
01:34.51balrog-kuni mean i don't thing E17 is ever going to be the default
01:34.54balrog-kun*think
01:36.00bobesponjabalrog-kun: did you see this? http://marc.info/?l=enlightenment-devel&m=119433626331033&w=2
01:36.15bobesponjathe E guy is working for OpenMoko now
01:36.33bobesponjaand he says they want E for OpenMoko
01:37.42balrog-kunit's probably gonna be available as one possible WM/toolkit/whaever but i don't think it's going to be the default
01:38.11balrog-kunmost openmoko ui people i know love gtk too much :)
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01:39.47bobesponjamaybe, but E17 can provide iPhone like interfaces pretty easily and few memory usage, maybe that's what FIC wants or something
01:40.53balrog-kunand gtk can't?
01:41.31balrog-kunalso i don't think being like iPhone is a convincing argument for openmoko, i think they want to rather be completely different
01:41.52balrog-kunbut yes, E17 may be a good choice, but personally i don't think it will be the default
01:42.21bobesponjathey want to be more open than iphone, that's not too difficult :), but I guess they like the dynamic UI
01:42.50bobesponjaanyway, all this is just guessing from the E post on the ML, it seems pretty serious
01:44.08balrog-kunthe author of that mail may actually be online somewhere here..
01:46.31balrog-kun*sniff*
01:46.58bobesponjaif he's in australia he might be lunching right now :)
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02:36.10bspencerwhat window manager does openmoko use?
02:36.47summatusmentisafaik, it's based on gpe?
02:37.02Robot101matchbox
02:37.27summatusmentisright, that one! :-)
02:37.52bspencerRobot101 !
02:38.22bspencerwe were playing with moko finger scroll lists over in our mobile internet device world
02:38.47bspencerbut we had a challenge getting our touchscreens to work with it and double-click too
02:39.35bspencermatchbox has a 200ms double click timeout and that conflicts with our settings for the evtouch driver.
02:39.41bspencerI thought maybe you guys had similar problems
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02:48.36xaidI was wondering if anyone here uses Rogers wireless in Edmonton...Just wondering how the 850 vs 1900 coverage is there :)
02:49.14ckuethexaid: yo
02:49.26ckuethemy gta01 doesn't work downtown
02:49.42xaidckuethe: that sucks :/ i thought there was a 1900 tower close to downtown
02:50.19xaidwhere does it work? north/south/west/east ? i live on the north part, in St. Albert basically
02:50.33ckuethethere may be one in edmonton, but i don't know where it is.
02:50.42ckuethecall rogers and ask...
02:50.49ckuethethough you're probably rogered.
02:51.13xaidi'll probably get a clueless level 1 support person who wont know what im asking :D
02:52.03xaidwhere does your phone work ? which part of edmonton...
02:52.46ckuethei only tried it downtown, and it didn't work
02:53.48xaidlet me know what they say...im looking for a tower map of edmonton right now, i should've bookmarked it the last time i saw it
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02:56.41xaidckuethe: http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html
02:57.26ckuethei should've kept my old nokia
02:57.55ckuethecould've used gnokii and gpsd to do something like kismet
02:58.09ckuethehm. that would be a fun hack - a kismet module to plot cell sites
02:59.20xaidthat'd actually be cool, create a map of the different cell tower locations
02:59.45xaidlooks like there are a few 1900 towers in downtown, a few 850 as well
03:00.23xaidwhats strange from that map is that it looks like most of the rogers towers are dual 850/1900
03:00.33xaidbut if that was the case, then you'd get receiption
03:01.25xaidhmm, weird, all the rogers ones are showing dual bands :D
03:01.32ckuethehm. according to that map, i could throw a baseball and hit a rogers 1900
03:02.42xaidyea, thats what it seems too...you're sure its a problem with the phone? as in a screwed up image or something?
03:02.54xaid*its not a problem with the phone i mean
03:03.44xaidwhen i check the rest of the towers (non-rogers), some show as only 850 so i know its not all dual band...
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03:08.56ckuethepretty sure - i went straight to tty access to the modem and sent at commands by hand
03:10.33xaidhmm, can you enable 1900 Mhz mode with your Razr? my phone doesn't seem to let me do this
03:11.08sagacis|sadSome providers put the handshaking on 850 only, so you have to register in that band before handing off to 1900
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03:13.01xaidIt might be what Rogers is doing in here....thats too bad
03:13.09xaidckuethe: no luck from 611?
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03:23.15xaidhmm, it doesn't seem that a lot of the phones give you advance options to turn off certain bands, i just tried a Nokia 6085 and it doesn't seem that there is a way to disable 850 Mhz mode :/
03:23.43xaidsame with my old Samsung x426
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03:27.48ckuetheno
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03:51.31anrpi've never seen an option to do something like that ...
03:55.14xaidi've never looked before to be honest, but i thought that people would want to do that at some point in time. but it seems its all done automatically without any manual intervention.
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04:15.40martin_lundstromHello folks
04:15.51xaidmartin_lundstrom: Hello
04:16.07martin_lundstromIm searching for a hackable gsm/gprs/bluetooth phone, what would be a good choise?
04:17.18xaidAny specific GSM frequency bands?
04:17.47martin_lundstromno, just gprs and bt working
04:18.01xaidthe Neo1973 is a good choice, but you should check the technical specs to make sure it suits your needs
04:18.16xaidcheck the Wiki at http://openmoko.org/Wiki
04:18.20martin_lundstromi checked some, and it dont run gprs
04:18.27xaidoops wrong link lol
04:18.32martin_lundstromand seemes quite limited in bt
04:19.09xaidI don't have a phone yet so I'm not sure, but I think that GPRS was working, it might not be doable from the GUI yet
04:19.17martin_lundstromif it is not even possible to talk on the phone it wont work for me
04:20.05xaidi think in the latest images, dialing works out of the box (TM)
04:20.22xaidhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth
04:20.26ljpmartin_lundstrom: qtopia works quite well on the Neo
04:20.28martin_lundstromHere it says that it is not working http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview
04:20.53martin_lundstromljp: where can i find a status report?
04:21.32martin_lundstromxaid: so there is some progress :)
04:22.12xaidmartin_lundstrom: there is indeed :) I found this for GPRS http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS
04:22.39martin_lundstromcool, im quite impressed of all the work
04:24.16xaidit is coming along very nicely actually, the UI looks neat and you have the option of trying QTopia is you want to try a different look and feel as well
04:24.24xaids/is/if/
04:24.47xaidapt surely butchered that one :)
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04:29.44martin_lundstromhmm, I think I need some neo1973 sales support, does it exist?
04:30.18xaidi'm not sure...you can ask questions here and someone will usually answer you if they know the answer to your question.
04:30.34xaidyou can always email the mailing list as well
04:30.53martin_lundstromOK, I will study abit more before
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05:05.45HenrykETOOCOLDOUTSIDE
05:06.33|Rthat much?
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05:14.54xzcvczxanyone installed a vnc server on their phone?
05:16.46Henrykhmm, no. (but I had both vnc and rdesktop clients running)
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05:18.32xzcvczxHenryk: lol not much use.... i need the server
05:20.28Henryk(just in case: qemu has a vnc server built-in)
05:21.11xzcvczxqemu runs too slow for me (a lot slower than realtime)
05:21.20Henrykoh, okay
05:22.20Henrykso, I'm off, into the cold rain
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05:51.26martin_lundstromgood night folks
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06:02.55PITABoyCM updates what wiki page
06:02.55xzcvczxCM: which page?
06:02.56xzcvczxlol
06:02.56CMHehe
06:02.56CMThe one martin_lundstrom talked about
06:02.56xzcvczxah
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06:03.56CMhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview was really negative and vague too ;)
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06:58.22Hopscotchgood morning
06:59.36mbufHopscotch, good morning
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07:02.28xzcvczxgood evening
07:02.56xzcvczxroh: you awake?
07:05.03CMProbably not yet :)
07:05.18xzcvczxCM: it is 8am his time
07:05.27xzcvczxhe should learn to wake up at a decent hr
07:05.55CMxzcvczx: I think he needs to learn when to go to bed instead :D
07:06.19xzcvczxmeh same thing]
07:06.37CMNo it's not
07:06.49CMI've learned to get up between 6 and 6.30
07:06.55xzcvczx:P
07:07.04CMBut I rarely make it to bed before midnight :P
07:07.56xzcvczxi make it to bed (couch in front of plasma) by like 6pm but dont sleep til after 3am most the time
07:08.55flexdgood grief, someone, coffine!, now!
07:09.19xzcvczxcoffine?
07:09.23flexdcoffeine*
07:09.24xzcvczxyou mean caffine?
07:09.26xzcvczxor coffin
07:09.27flexdone of the 3
07:09.41flexdwhatever just wake me up if i fall over
07:10.10flexdapparently going to bed at 2am and waking up at 6am is not exactly good for me
07:10.22xzcvczxflexd: its perfectly good
07:10.36flexdi dont actually drink coffee
07:10.48xzcvczxyeah neither, cant stand the stuff
07:10.49flexdand i've done this every day since may
07:11.11xzcvczxwell from the 13th i am doing 27 days straight of 13hr days
07:11.14flexdi live on games, drooling about the neo and large amounts of hot chocolate/energy drinks
07:11.49flexdthe others in my office didnt cope with it though, their all MIA atm ^^
07:12.04xzcvczxi live on drooling about the neo, other computer shit and jumping out of planes
07:12.44flexdhavent jumped out of any planes yet
07:13.02xzcvczxflexd: wimp :P
07:13.04xzcvczxits fun
07:13.40flexdi'm not saying im not going to
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07:13.47flexdjust havent had the chance to try
07:13.49flexdexpensive tuff
07:13.51flexdstuff*
07:14.02xzcvczxflexd: only costs me $30NZD these days per jump
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07:16.10CMBut it must not be poisoned with milk or sugar..
07:16.25xzcvczxCM: yeah we dont care
07:16.27xzcvczx:P
07:16.50CMxzcvczx: Working a lot sucks btw
07:16.55xzcvczxCM: oh are you in same area as roh?
07:17.08xzcvczxCM: not when you earn 5k in 27 days
07:17.20CMI'm in Sweden, so it's the same timezone
07:17.26xzcvczxah ok
07:17.31flexd5k swedish money in27days?
07:17.35CMWhat is 5k NZD?
07:17.39flexdthats even less than me, i thought i was underpaid :/
07:17.42CMflexd: Hehe
07:17.52flexd<- 8k norwegian a month
07:17.52xzcvczx5000*0.78 = USD
07:17.58flexdstandard slavery payment :(
07:18.05CM5k swedish i get in about a week
07:18.09xzcvczxflexd: i am a student still though
07:18.16xzcvczxyeah STFU CM :P
07:18.20flexdxzcvczx: so am i sorta, a it trainee at a local school
07:18.33xzcvczxflexd: im still at university
07:19.20flexdxzcvczx: i ahvent gotten there yet
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07:19.43CMI'm out of it since almost 3 years..
07:19.47xzcvczxflexd: lol, i plan to pause uni half wya through next year and go do pilot license though
07:19.51flexd1 year left as a trainee, then 1 year of boring classes like norwegian/english/math and stuff, and first THEN i can go uni :/
07:19.59xzcvczxCM: whats your day job?
07:20.10CMxzcvczx: Consultant
07:20.19flexdunless someone can hire me to a job i make loads of money
07:20.25flexdthen you know, education isnt that needed
07:20.26xzcvczxflexd: i think english will help you.... should have said "first and THEN" :P
07:20.26CMAt a crap assignment at Volvo right now, but I'm about to move
07:20.34xzcvczxCM: lol volvo
07:20.39flexdxzcvczx: shush it's early in the morning!
07:20.43xzcvczxlol
07:20.57CMHEhe
07:22.08CMxzcvczx: Btw, my pay after taxes is maybe 4500 NZD/month.. Our taxes suck ;)
07:22.21xzcvczxOUCH!!!
07:22.37xzcvczxwhat are your rates/cuttoffs
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07:23.06CMI pay 33% tax for the base 5000NZD, then up to 56% on the stuff above..
07:23.24xzcvczxours are 19.5%-33k=33%-50k=39%
07:23.27xzcvczxOUCH
07:24.01flexd39% taxes here
07:24.05flexddont you just love norway?
07:24.07flexd:/
07:24.25CMI think you can get even higher once you get beyond 10.000NZD/month
07:24.27xzcvczxwow that makes no sense, up to 33k = 19.5 33k-50k = 33% and >50k = 39%
07:25.05xzcvczxwe definately seem to have low tax rates against you two but you go to aussie your first 5k is untaxed
07:25.07CMflexd: At least you have an even rate for all, not one just getting higher and higher
07:25.16flexdWell it goes up if i make more money
07:25.17flexdi think
07:25.19flexdor down
07:25.20flexdi dunno
07:25.28flexddown probably
07:25.33xzcvczxCM: but flatrate is not how the tax system was designed to work
07:25.55flexdthis guy i went to school with that also works here earns the same as me (same position), but he's got a much lower tax rate
07:25.57CMxzcvczx: I agree
07:26.03flexdatleast last year, but he had a second job so i dunno
07:26.09*** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz)
07:26.10CMBut the moron politicians don't seem to get it..
07:26.23*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)
07:26.31flexdI'm making one minimum's years pay over two years (like 285k norwegian over 2 years)
07:26.31CMflexd: How can he have a lower tax rate?
07:26.38flexdCM: who knows.
07:26.39flexdbrb
07:27.06xzcvczxCM: well the think is the "rich" people are not wage/salary earners any more and so they are nailing the "middle" class and leaving the rich people with all their money
07:27.37CM*nod*
07:27.43xzcvczxi normally get about 1/4 of my tax back in rebates anyway
07:27.51CMYou can never get rich working, only by earning
07:27.57CMEhh
07:28.02CMs/earning/owning
07:28.06xzcvczxlol
07:28.21xzcvczxand if you are rich you barely ever earn it
07:28.22xzcvczxlol
07:28.31CM:P
07:28.55blindcodermoin
07:29.03xzcvczxwtf does moin mean
07:30.00flexduhm
07:30.10CMAbout the same as Perkele! :P
07:30.14flexdtax rates are lower for people that make more because there's a larger amount of money to take %'s off
07:30.16fgaumoin = good morning
07:30.24flexdso they end up paying rougly the same
07:30.36flexduntil they make a certain amount of money ofcourse, where there's other taxes and shit involved
07:30.48CMHeh, always so complex
07:30.54mbufanyone here familiar with autotools? if i would like to use SUBDIRS in a top-level Makefile.am, what needs to be done for autogen.sh (from top-level directory) to use SUBDIRS/Makefile.am and create Makefiles?
07:31.33xzcvczxflexd: thats so stupid
07:32.04xzcvczxflexd: tell your gov they are friggin idiots and look what taxes were designed to do
07:32.33flexdtaxes are designed to make the gov even more money
07:32.54flexdnot enough that we earn like insane amounts of money off the oil business, they gotta drag money out of us too :/
07:33.08xzcvczxyes but they are meant to punish the rich more than the poor
07:33.14CMAha, so it will be a webkit gui on the gphone...
07:33.17xzcvczxas the poor have less money to throw around
07:38.53CVirus.topic
07:38.54CVirusoops
07:38.55CVirussorry
07:39.14CMWe'll never forgive you for that.. ;)
07:39.19*** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=moravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz)
07:39.19CVirushehe
07:39.30CViruswell ... at least I read the topic :-p
07:39.48CMAnd you haven't even mentioned Android yet
07:40.01CM"He said Jehovah!"
07:40.02CVirusI thought I shouldn't mention them !
07:40.32xzcvczxCM: lol we should start thzt
07:40.35xzcvczxthat
07:40.44CM"Stone him!"
07:40.52xzcvczxeverytime someone says android /me throws rock at x
07:41.16CVirusI'm working on an application that will allow the OpenMoko to work as a remote control for the laptop .. via bluetooth
07:41.47CMxzcvczx: Maybe include ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeq2Utm0nU )
07:41.51CVirus**cough**andsroid**COUGH**
07:42.18CVirustypo .. LOL
07:42.51xzcvczxsweet
07:43.48flexdhttp://surreality.info/up/pacmanjesus.gif
07:44.01xzcvczxCVirus: tell me when your program is complete as when it is i will use it on my mac as my mac has no keyboard
07:44.25CMCVirus: Cool app
07:45.12CVirusI was implementing a daemon that will run on my laptop and accepts bluetooth messages from my nokia 6600
07:45.28flexdCM: what app? :o
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07:45.39flexdoh
07:45.40flexdimb lind
07:45.42flexdblind
07:45.43flexdnice
07:45.52xzcvczxand dyslexic it seems
07:46.08*** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn167185.wlan.jku.at)
07:46.14CVirusactually I thought about it as I wanted someway to lock my screen remotely
07:46.21*** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-79-14.dsl.scarlet.be)
07:46.34CVirusand control amaroK :-)
07:46.43CVirusI'll launch a page for the project soon
07:46.55CVirushopefully
07:47.33xzcvczxyeah i will eventually create a page for my project as well... wanna wait til i get the extra hardware required first though]
07:48.03xzcvczxand wait til the gps binary is released
07:48.04CVirusmy problem is that I'm not even a programmer ... I just know a bit of python that's all
07:48.25*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)
07:48.38xzcvczxyeah i really only know java..... but best way to learn is to do
07:48.51CVirusexactly
07:49.37*** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221)
07:49.41xzcvczxi am reasonably quickly learning c although finding it a lot different to java.... javas apis seem a lot simpler to use
07:49.47*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
07:50.17CVirusPython for the win :-p
07:50.39xzcvczxmeh i tried python a while ago..... cant say i would really go back ther
07:50.41xzcvczxthere
07:50.48xzcvczxbut thats just my opinion
07:51.19xzcvczxand am happy to be away from java... except for how useless c is with its error reporting
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07:51.42CMWhy happy to be away from java?
07:51.56xzcvczxCM: speed/resource requirement
07:52.17CVirusI know Java too ... but Java makes me more concerned with the syntax rather than solving the problem
07:52.23CMHmm.. I agree on the resource part, but I like the language
07:52.24CVirusso as C
07:52.49CMCVirus: I get what you mean
07:53.19CVirusI have a Java lab in an hour :-D
07:53.25CVirusat the uni
07:54.01CMI started out with some basic and a little assembler, then c, then java, c++, C#, python, ruby, APL(shudder)..
07:55.49CVirusa friend told me that Enlightenment's lead developer is also an OpenMoko dev ?
07:55.50*** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se)
07:56.09xzcvczxCVirus: indeed
07:56.11xzcvczxraster
07:56.26flexdCV: Make that run on windows somehow too? ;) (trough python maybe?)
07:56.29xzcvczxsee the full "hes a god" conversation on the community mailing list
07:56.45flexdI've been thinking of making something that automatically locks my machine whenever my cell gets out of bluetooth range
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07:58.06raster:)
07:58.15CVirusraster: pleased to meet you :-)
07:58.52flexdchannel main podium*
07:59.03rasterCVirus: likewise
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07:59.46xzcvczxspeak of the devil himself
07:59.48xzcvczx:P
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08:01.24rasterand i'm not the devl
08:01.29rasteri'm "evil overlord"
08:01.46flexdmonkeyiq: decided by the amount of people wanting their own podium, there's some wood and a hammer+nails around here somewhere, feel free to make your own i guess?, injuries gotten from falling from self made podiums will not be covered by health insurance.
08:01.48rasterthats what the biz card says
08:02.14flexdraster: i have to make my own biz cards if i want them :(
08:02.15monkeyiqraster; does that make you the pointy horned deviloper
08:03.17rasterhehehehehe
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08:03.27monkeyiqflexd; so there is a loophole if you get someone else to make your podium, then its not "self made"
08:03.28xzcvczxmonkeyiq: just the horny developer
08:04.12xzcvczxraster: e is looking very nice these days
08:04.16monkeyiqxzcvczx; but there are many of those around already :)
08:04.32duffydhi all, I've been using the qtopia preview snapshots for a while now and want to switch back to openmoko but downloading the latest snapshots from buildhost.automated.it - now I can load X on my Neo. Is this related to the qtopia stuff or the OM snapshots?
08:04.47xzcvczxom snapshots
08:05.05xzcvczxduffyd: try clearing the flash before you flash it though
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08:05.36duffydxzcvczx: ok, thanks
08:06.03duffydxzcvczx: is that a 'factory reset'?
08:06.15CMduffyd: How old uboot do you have?
08:06.31xzcvczxduffyd: not just is safer
08:06.40rasterxzcvczx: i's gtting there
08:06.51xzcvczxCM: i do it even with the newest uboot as i have issues otherwise
08:07.21CMxzcvczx: Oh, hmm.. Is there any good known new uboot?
08:07.26xzcvczxraster: well i was using -17 back when it was very much anything you wanted to do was done on the command line
08:07.33xzcvczxCM: the one i use works
08:07.44CMxzcvczx: And that version is?
08:07.52CMLink? :)
08:07.59xzcvczxits one off of automated but there is also one htere that doesnt work properly though cu
08:08.05xzcvczxummmm
08:08.41flexdmonkeyiq: it's elf made then
08:08.47CMAnyway, I need a new one because I have to get usb-terminal by default since my uboot-env is borked
08:09.17xzcvczxCM: dunno the version.... it was approx end of sept iirc
08:09.25monkeyiqflexd: mmmm elves, eases the pain...
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08:09.48duffydCM: U-Boot 1.2.0-moko9_r8_70124c2602...
08:09.57duffydmay 19 2007
08:10.23flexdhmmm
08:10.26flexdpybluez ftw
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08:10.36xzcvczxlol duffyd definately blank the flash
08:10.41rasterxzcvczx: a lot of e17 is all gui now
08:10.47rasterconfig thru to app management and more
08:11.02xzcvczxraster: yeah i know... was running it up until about 5mins ago
08:11.04duffydxzcvczx: sorry, I don't know how to blank the flash?
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08:11.21xzcvczxopen flash menu
08:11.29xzcvczxon host go cu -l /dev/ttyACM0
08:11.39xzcvczxnand erase kernel
08:11.45xzcvczxnand erase rootfs
08:11.51xzcvczxthen flash
08:12.32rasterxzcvczx: you stopped?
08:12.47xzcvczxduffyd: has no possible way to brick unless you mess with uboot
08:12.59duffydxzcvczx: oh ic, ta
08:13.28xzcvczxraster: too use to having a task manager at the moment, will go back when kde starts f'ing me off for being too slow which probably wont take long
08:13.58xzcvczxand still have putloads of stuff to emerge for e to make it nicer
08:16.13rasterxzcvczx: bah! use virtual desktops. group takss in each
08:16.14raster:)
08:16.39xzcvczxraster: i use virtual desktops but fill them up too damn quickly
08:17.02xzcvczxand dont worry i will return patience is a virtue :P
08:18.23rasteradd more!
08:18.24raster:)
08:18.27rasterand yes
08:18.33rasterwe will get a "taskbar"
08:18.36CVirusI know nothing about communications I guess so I don't understand this all 850MHz thing ... anybody up to explain ?
08:18.39rasterits just less important to the devs
08:18.49rasterbecause we somehow all seem to use vd's to organise ourselves
08:19.21xzcvczxraster: is there a sort of approx date for a release yet/
08:19.22xzcvczx?
08:19.57CVirusE17 has been under development for more than 4 years now ?
08:20.56rastere17 started end of 2004
08:21.12rasterwas a pause while doing other back-end code stuff and experiments before that
08:21.21flexdwoot, got super drugged down vision again now, i feel spaced out >_<
08:21.35rasterxzcvczx: no date. a todo list with milestones to achieve tho
08:21.44CVirusI see
08:21.48xzcvczxraster: ah ok
08:22.37CVirusE is actually one of the few wm's that impressed me ... I've used it for over a year
08:22.40CVirusE16 that is
08:22.55xzcvczxe17 is much nicer
08:23.15CVirusyeah
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08:26.20rasterok
08:26.22rasterfoodiepoos
08:26.32ScaredyCatwtf!
08:27.09xzcvczxCVirus: how the pointers treating you in c?
08:27.35CVirusxzcvczx: I don't know C
08:27.59xzcvczxCVirus: i thought you were learning it arent you?
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08:28.07CVirusxzcvczx: never :-D
08:28.13CMCVirus: About that 850MHz thing, it's just the gsm frequency used in some insignificant countries.. ;)
08:28.23flexd<PROTECTED>
08:28.28CVirushehe
08:28.36CMCVirus: And the hw in the GTA02 seems to be unable to use it
08:28.50xzcvczxand it gta01
08:28.55CMSure, that too
08:28.59xzcvczxs/it/in
08:29.24xzcvczxdoesnt yanktown use 850 in some areas?
08:29.29CViruslet me check my country
08:29.45CVirushttp://allworldcellphones.com/gsm-frequencies-list.htm
08:29.50CVirushttp://www.simoncells.com/scripts/gsmzone.asp
08:30.34xzcvczxlol it was rather funny there yesterday i was trying to mess round with AT%EM commands and was absolutely stuffed if i could work out why it wasnt working... some hrs later realised why, hadnt put sim in
08:30.35CVirusEgypt operates on 900MHz
08:31.02CVirusApple's branch in Egypt is selling unlocked iPhones
08:31.09XorA900/1800 are the most common
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08:31.22XorAits those damn yanks and their wierd frequencies
08:31.39CMYes, Canada, USA and latin america
08:31.55xzcvczxCVirus: same here
08:31.59CViruswtf !
08:32.01CVirusis this legal ?
08:32.27XorAwhat legal?
08:32.37CVirusto unlock the iPhone ?
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08:33.00XorAdepends on how fscked your country is with copycat DCMA legislation
08:33.23CVirushmm
08:33.26mypapitgoing to shutdown
08:33.41CVirusWhy doesn't apple do anything regarding those countries ?
08:33.42xzcvczxCVirus: they have to sell unlocked in france
08:33.54XorAits quite likely there are a few countries in the world that beleive when you buy hardware you actually own it not license it
08:33.54CVirusis it even meant to be sold in Europe !
08:34.28xzcvczxCVirus: it will eventually get to everywhere in the world
08:35.23CViruseven after apple updated their software and locked all the unlocked phones
08:35.35CVirusapple egypt unlocked the phones once again for the people
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08:57.08dreadhm, everytime neo boots up, i get an "dialer: error setting antenna power"
08:57.19xzcvczxdread: i get same
08:57.21xzcvczxjust click ok
08:58.02dreadis there an fix or should i just try the next build?
08:58.25xzcvczxhavent seen anyone in here talking about a fix
08:58.30xzcvczxmaybe check bugzilla
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09:18.29bedboihi all
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09:20.29xzcvczxhello
09:21.02florianhi bedboi
09:21.12bedboihey florian
09:21.15bedboilong time no see
09:21.27bedboiit is a very busy time of my life
09:21.30florianbedboi: yes indeed...
09:21.46bedboiflorian: now i'm in france.
09:22.23florianbedboi: oh... for working?
09:30.38bedboiyep
09:30.47bedboii'm working without any pause since the last year
09:30.56bedboino vacation at all
09:31.19bedboii must be very stupid, because my "salary" is still the same.
09:31.35florianyeah... same here - except of some conferences and about a week of for moving
09:31.36bedboii'm not taking the italian way to do things
09:31.50bedboiwhere did you move?
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09:33.08florianbedboi: Only ~500m to a newer house...
09:33.14bedboiahah
09:33.19bedboicool
09:33.21bedboi'grats
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09:33.35Ghiottone|workgratz and morning
09:33.44*** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net)
09:33.56florianWhere "newer" means about 300 years :-)
09:34.01florianhi Ghiottone|work
09:34.05bedboiah, cool.
09:34.17bedboiflorian: now i'm in a 1923 residence
09:34.25bedboiso i can feel you
09:35.11florianbedboi: well... I wouldn't be that sure. The old one was about 400 years old...
09:35.23bedboiare you serious?
09:35.28bedboi400 years?
09:35.42bedboiwere you in a farm?
09:35.43bedboi:)
09:36.05bedboiwe have such houses in my city (in the old part)
09:36.20bedboithey are dated back in XII century
09:36.38bedboibut now completely rebuilt
09:36.49florianbedboi: Yes... one of the oldest still existing buildings in Siegen. I was some kind of inn before...
09:37.07bedboicool
09:37.08florianbedboi: unluckily the company that owns it does not really care... that's a shame :-/
09:38.46bedboii imaging a 400 years old house with a lot of PDAs and electronic gadgets inside
09:38.48florianWe have a lot of really nice buildings from 1910 to 1930 around here... most of them in perfect condition and quite expensive.
09:38.57florianheheh
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09:40.00florianyeah... that was a bit strange. But hi-tech and old buildings are a good combination :-)
09:40.26florianThere is a software company in Germany that is in an old castle.
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09:54.32flexdarr
09:54.35flexdthreads are the spawn of evil
09:54.36flexd:(
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10:00.21bedboiflexd: yep most of the times.
10:00.27bedboii completely agree
10:01.30flexdwhoever made pybluez block... damn you %#)%()#
10:01.37flexd(the discover services part)
10:01.40flexderr, devices*
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10:04.37bedboibtw, where are hosted the latest openmoko images  ?
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10:05.37CMbedboi: I'd say ScaredyCat's images
10:05.49CMhttp://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/
10:06.19zashbedboi: ^3Wdw$bP
10:06.20bedboiyep
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10:10.53zeckewhat is gizmo's mail address?
10:11.07dreadwhat is the §G issue about? is it just using a special type of sim card in neo, or is it to use highspeed technology like EGDE ?
10:11.49zash3G != EDGE
10:11.58dreadoh, yes
10:12.33dreadjust read it, in this second :) EDGE is G2.5, UMTS and HSDPA are consideres as 3G, right?
10:12.43zashyes
10:13.23dreadso, is the issue and the firmwareupdate just about using §G bards to access the gsm network or is it supposed to enable 3G ?
10:14.13zashi think the simcards are diffrent somehow
10:14.37mjrit's just to be able to use some of the newer sim cards to access gsm
10:15.32dreadah, okay :)
10:15.43mjrEDGE is able to provide speeds that are considered 3G, incidentally, depending on stuff. 2.75G is an oft-quoted "G"-value for it.
10:16.04zashhow is edge vs gprs?
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10:16.23mjredge is up to ~three times faster
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10:16.45mjr(and not available on Neo)
10:17.24xzcvczxi cant say i use any data from my cell as it costs $10 per mega
10:17.26xzcvczxbyte
10:17.33zashand gprs ~= 56k modem :(
10:18.31zashbroadband as in ~6*56k
10:19.13xzcvczxbet it costs < $10/mb for both you tho right?
10:21.03zashnope, 99 SEK/month
10:21.49jeddy3(~15$)
10:23.23jeddy3s/15$/$15/
10:24.19xzcvczxaint no monthly caps here, most is 3gig for $80/month
10:24.27cjb_iei pay 20eur/month for 10 gigs
10:24.39cjb_iewith three.ie
10:24.42zashyay for .se :D
10:24.43buzif i had contract isntead of prepaid, i could get 50mb for 5EUR
10:24.44*** join/#openmoko Vegar (n=vegar@51-142-151-213.mtulink.net)
10:24.48buzbut contract costs too much
10:25.12buzor 2EUR a day for unlimited traffic, only paid on days where you use it
10:25.32xzcvczxthe price has gone up for casual as well to $11.25/mb
10:26.01zash~$232 for one year of unlimited 3g surfing, including hsdpa-usb-modem
10:26.03xzcvczxwell best thing is if you are on prepay here and have no money on your account its free
10:26.26buzhu?
10:26.29buzyou sure?
10:26.37buzthen wtf would anyone ever pay?
10:26.51zashto .. call ppl?
10:27.14xzcvczxwell its a bug in the system, with prepay you cant go into negative and so if you have no money they cant charge you
10:28.05buzif you're on 0 you cant call here
10:28.06cjb_ievodafone came up with a nice dodge recently - if you run out, you can text them 'IOU' and they'll give you something like a 2 eur advance on your next credit
10:28.18xzcvczxthey did the same here
10:28.20buzcjb_ie: they used to do that here, too
10:28.37buzactually, you didnt have to text either
10:28.41*** join/#openmoko Batalyx (n=ji+irc@jalava.cc.jyu.fi)
10:28.52buzi assume it was abused to often in the days of free prepaid sims though
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10:35.29BatalyxI'm trying to build the dev-image with mokomakefile, but it starts way too many processes reserving all of the memory until the computer wents into out-of-memory-free-memory-out-of-memory... loop. Is anyone experiencing this or am I to dump the computer?
10:35.30mjrxzcvczx, 10 euros per month uncapped
10:36.00mjr(speed capped at 384k, like I care with gprs only equipment)
10:38.25BatalyxI think I'm basically asking, that has there been dependency problems lately in the mokomakefile / dev-environment, which have caused an infinite loop of starting up new processes?
10:40.22xzcvczxBatalyx: how much ram/swap?
10:40.33CMBatalyx: I did a build yesterday without any problems
10:41.02Batalyx4G ram, I think last time there was >2G swap used (but the computer was "dead" already then)
10:41.07ScaredyCatyou haven't got silly values for parallel_make andbb_number_threads have you ?
10:41.08CMI think building busybox was tough, something like 780mb ram
10:42.56guaquamy gutsy installation crashes when i build openmoko
10:42.59guaquago figure
10:43.15ScaredyCatthat's not good
10:43.39ScaredyCatCM: wtf - busybox taking 780mb ram? no way
10:44.00xzcvczxScaredyCat: to build
10:44.01CMScaredyCat: While compiling
10:44.07ScaredyCatthe build is doing something retarded  then
10:44.09BatalyxScaredyCat: possibly yes :)
10:44.33ScaredyCatI've build busybox on relly crappy machines...
10:44.36ScaredyCatbuilt
10:44.43Batalyx...but it has worked before, so...
10:46.03BatalyxI think I'll try a clean build first. If that blows the machine, then I start to bribe the IT-support to get me a working computer...
10:46.14ScaredyCatyup - it's oe
10:46.21ScaredyCat"RAM: The build host needs to have at least 512MB of RAM, and about the same amount of swap. Some packages built by OpenEmbedded like busybox are built by compiling all source files into one binary which causes gcc to grow belond 300MB of size and no part of this memory may be on swap for the compile to finish in predictable time. For busybox, this can be turned off, but turning this off means that busybox will not as well optimized by gcc."
10:49.57Xx13planet.openmoko says dialer is fixed, but after ipkg upgrade, it is a broken as before....?
10:52.47Xx13does it work reliably for anyone?
10:53.25CMNot really..
10:53.28CM;)
10:54.00Xx13phew, and i was thinking i synced to the wrong repository
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10:54.43CMWell, if you only update using ipkg it will break
10:55.12CMOr at least probably... There's a lot of changes being done in gsmd
10:55.15Xx13how? and what is the proper way to update? reflash?
10:55.19CMAnd I don't know about the kernel patches
10:55.46CMXx13: Using ipkg should be the proper way, but some of this base stuff just isn't stable enough yet for that
10:55.52XorACM: kernel is locked in OE
10:56.06XorAgsmd causes problems due to ipkg bugs
10:56.08CMXorA: Is the gsmd version too?
10:56.12CM*nod*
10:56.26XorAgsmd is locked, but updates more often than kernel
10:57.01CMAnd maybe there's feeds that aren't locked too (wich would be unwise to use...)
10:57.20XorAyeah a lot of devs use cutting edge feeds
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11:02.13emdetewhat kind of bug in ipkg?
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11:02.14flexdrawr, awsomeness. my bluetooth presence checker works \o/
11:04.40XorAemdete: a package cant RREPLACE relaible when it RPROVIDES
11:04.53XorAemdete: ipkg is a broken pile of crap
11:05.01zashfrom HELL!
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11:05.49CMXorA: And no one is working on it any more or?
11:06.16CMHow hard would it be to switch to some other packaging?
11:06.35ScaredyCatisn't the prblem that oe uses it?
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11:07.08ScaredyCatI thought I'd read that it was made specifically for oe
11:07.35CMWell, oe can change :D
11:07.47ScaredyCat"Your music library contains 3592 albums with 54498 songs by 3522 artists"
11:07.51ScaredyCatbugger...
11:08.21XorACM: oe technically supports debian packaging, but it doesnt quite work yet
11:08.36XorACM: but AFAIK ipkg development halted at hh.org
11:08.43CM*nod*
11:09.17CMScaredyCat: That's a lot of songs, are they all good? ;)
11:09.30ScaredyCatno...
11:09.36ScaredyCatsadly...
11:09.42ScaredyCatmy wife likes crap music
11:09.57flexdhaha
11:10.13florianbedboi: I feel remembered to a release :-)
11:11.23CMScaredyCat: I think most people have no taste when it comes to music.. :P
11:11.37ScaredyCatexcept me and you, obviously ;)
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11:12.06ScaredyCatnow, where are my sclub 7 mp3s
11:12.15CMScaredyCat: Hehe..
11:13.01ScaredyCatat least my cd's can go off to storage .. which is good.
11:13.28ScaredyCatI wonder if they'll be worth something in 100 years..
11:13.53CMThey are probably unreadable in just 30 years or so
11:14.54ScaredyCatI'd better put them in air tight bags
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11:15.27mickeylmorning folks
11:15.45ScaredyCaterrm, afternoon mickeyl :)
11:16.26mickeylya, whatever ;)
11:16.39ScaredyCat:o
11:16.43mickeylATI Radeon HD 2600 XT giving me hell
11:16.45mickeyl*sigh*
11:16.56ScaredyCatunder linux?
11:17.00mickeylsure
11:17.04ScaredyCatyou know the law don't you
11:17.10mickeylmurphy?
11:17.11CMGuess those open drivers aren't really done yet...
11:17.12ScaredyCatati is shite
11:17.16ScaredyCatfor linux users
11:17.51mickeylya, i know. this is the first time I didn't bother with me building the PC. I ordered a custom-built and I could only chose between three different ATI models
11:17.58flexd8800gts <3
11:20.09mickeyli was satisfied with my good ole MGA G550 for long
11:20.24mickeylbut it looks like AGP is no longer
11:21.02ScaredyCatI don;t do games and stuff so my intel 945gm is fine for me...
11:21.13ScaredyCatat least I can tart about with compiz
11:21.20mickeylScaredyCat, right
11:21.24CMI have a GeForce 7600 GS and it's been great. No fan either
11:21.30ScaredyCatbalrog-kun: no, they're still bad guys.
11:21.31flexdhmm
11:21.39flexdYou are all like programming geniouses right? ;)
11:21.44flexdor something
11:21.47mickeylmost of us, yeah
11:21.50CMhehe
11:22.00CMflexd: Some of us are just geniouses
11:22.06CMBut we can still program.. :P
11:22.07flexdthen let me ask a sort of retarded question hehe
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11:22.20flexdI'm making a thing that checks if my cell is near my laptop or not, in python (doesnt really matter)
11:22.35ScaredyCatlq
11:23.00ScaredyCatthey're just not as bad...
11:23.03mickeylessentially all gfx vendors are bad guys
11:23.07mickeylsome more than others
11:23.14flexdand, i can scan for devices and find it, but i need to figure out some genious idea on how to determine if a specific device leaves the bluetooth "zone" or not, there's like 14-15 bluetooth devices in range at all time >_<
11:23.16balrog-kunheh
11:23.27ScaredyCatuse the lq flexd
11:23.31flexdwhat's lq?
11:23.31balrog-kunlet's boicott gfs guys and work with no graphical output
11:23.35balrog-kun*gfx
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11:23.37ScaredyCatlink quality
11:23.41mickeylhehehe
11:23.44ScaredyCatconnect to the device...
11:23.45CMmickeyl: I think intel is ok, even though they're not a pure gfx vendor :)
11:23.54mickeylbalrog-kun: right. now that we hired a gfx artist, let's go ncurses-interfaces
11:23.56ScaredyCatthen check the lq
11:24.03mickeylCM: agreed. that's because Keith works there
11:24.04flexdScaredyCat: That's sort of alot more advanced
11:24.15CM:)
11:24.16ScaredyCatnot really...
11:24.19flexdit will require more code! (i like it!)
11:24.24ScaredyCatfamiliar with asterisk flexd?
11:24.43flexdnope
11:24.47flexdwhat is that?
11:24.52ScaredyCatok, nm
11:25.09flexdi might be able to understand it, if you explain waht it is
11:25.25ScaredyCatit's a linux pased foos pbx
11:25.27ScaredyCatfoss
11:25.37ScaredyCatther's a btp daemon...
11:25.56flexdim on windows
11:25.57mickeylhmm
11:26.01ScaredyCatwhcih with a bit of modification will do what you want
11:26.03mickeylthis is my first ubuntu install
11:26.09ScaredyCatflexd: so
11:26.10flexdand it's sort of getting too advanced ^^
11:26.11mickeyl./autogen.sh: 3: glib-gettextize: not found
11:26.17flexdI'm just doing this for fun, for my bot
11:26.18mickeylhow can i check to which package this belongs?
11:26.21ScaredyCatbuild the btpd for the neo
11:26.22mickeyl(w/ aptitude?)
11:26.29flexdand eventually making some kind of program for my neo when i get it
11:26.36ScaredyCatsynaptics package manager
11:26.37ScaredyCat?
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11:27.04mickeylah, GUI to the rescue
11:27.07ScaredyCatmickeyl: I expected SuSe for you
11:27.11mickeylno no
11:27.17flexdScaredyCat: i have little to none C experience though :/
11:27.18mickeyli was a hard core Mandriva user for 6 years
11:27.26ScaredyCatyoink!
11:27.52mickeylbut although i still like it better, i'm afraid ubuntu has more momentum
11:27.55ScaredyCatflexd: it doens't matter... it's easy enough to see what's going on... lemmie dig out the code...
11:28.06mickeyland it helps to build on the same distribution that users have
11:28.15mickeylso, I'm configuring ubuntu now
11:28.32XorAlibglib2.0-dev: /usr/bin/glib-gettextize
11:28.43ynezzapt-cache search gettextize
11:28.56ScaredyCatthe problem with ubuntu is the kernels change, and you don't get the kernel sources for a wekk and a half later
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11:29.10mickeylXorA, ynezz: thanks. apt-cache it is
11:29.38guaquathe lists on openembedded&openmoko wiki are pretty extensive
11:33.03flexdScaredyCat: you wouldnt happen to know what SDP UUID i need for lq?
11:34.44XorAmickeyl: you will soon start to love apt/dpkg and hate rpm :-D
11:35.36ScaredyCatno. use hci_send_cmd :)
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11:40.07ScaredyCatflexd: http://buildhost.automated.it/btp_presence.tar.gz
11:42.30flexdoh
11:42.39flexdim trying to do this the wrong way
11:42.49flexdi was just scanning for bluetooth devices and trying to figure out it
11:42.52flexdfigure it out*
11:43.04flexdI can just connect directly and do what you say ;o
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11:44.16mickeylXorA: really? i hope so. it's cultural shock for me right now
11:45.25XorAmickeyl: you'll learn to love working RREPLACE, RCONFLICTS :-D
11:45.26ScaredyCatyes...
11:45.59Ghiottone|workmickeyl apt is really good. and apt-cache search is a very good source of software
11:48.27florianmickeyl: I had the same experience some years ago... the shock should be gone after some time.
11:48.30florian:)
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12:05.54balrog-kunyep, almost as good as emerge ;-)
12:06.02CMbalrog-kun: Hehe..
12:06.17CMBut I'd rather apt-get on my Neo then emerge..
12:06.25balrog-kunCM: true
12:06.43ScaredyCatoh god no... emerge ...
12:07.00ScaredyCatall that masking  and umasking...
12:07.08CMScaredyCat: Pff.. :P
12:07.13ScaredyCatfeck me, just put it in a different repo
12:09.22flexdScaredyCat: I dont really need to make this as advanced as link quality do i? :p, i can just check if i can connect or not, or if it gets disconnected for some reason
12:10.08ScaredyCatwell, I guess not.. unless you want to do things like check how far away you went...
12:10.22flexd^^
12:10.26ScaredyCatyou can still be connected when you're quite far away
12:10.39ScaredyCatand you might want you pc to lock sooner
12:10.48flexdbesides, i cant find any info on link quality trough rfcomm with pybluez/python in any case
12:10.50ScaredyCatthere's an app already to do that
12:11.26flexdbut that would mean i didnt make it
12:11.28flexdwhere's the fun in that
12:12.36ScaredyCatlol
12:12.46ScaredyCatok, wheel meet flexd ;)
12:13.23CMScaredyCat: I think he's not old enough to see that shortcuts are good, not cheating.. :P
12:13.39ScaredyCatwell, how about a bt radar instead flexd
12:13.43ScaredyCathehe CM
12:14.03flexdCM: I dont mind shortcuts
12:14.04flexdby all means
12:14.28flexdBut i dont want to have to install another program to tangle along with my nifty little python bot for something this basic
12:14.36flexdi know i can get it working to do the stuff
12:14.39CM*nod*
12:14.42flexdbut i wont learn more than installing the progrma
12:15.51CMflexd: I've been taking too many shortcuts lately, not getting anything done myself.. ;)
12:16.23ScaredyCatwell, I can't use bt on my lappy .. it seems to hate my wireless card :(
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12:28.09flexdScaredyCat: this sucks.
12:28.17flexdpybluez cant do anything like this ;:/
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13:11.40ScaredyCatwhy not flexd?
13:11.54*** join/#openmoko oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B10710E.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:13.00flexdbecause pybluez doesnt seem to have the ability to get link quality
13:13.00flexdi can open a rfcomm
13:13.00flexdbut how would i get link quality?
13:13.00flexdgoogle tells me little :/
13:13.39ScaredyCatwell, the docs for pybluez are shit, I agree..
13:14.39flexd:/
13:14.45flexdi got some event codes now
13:14.49flexdgotta figure out wtf they are
13:15.47ScaredyCatlook in /usr/share/doc/pyblues-<version>/examples/advanced/
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13:16.10flexd<-- windows
13:16.17ScaredyCatoh..
13:16.24ScaredyCatlemmie dl it then
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13:18.09ScaredyCatlooks like it might help flexd
13:18.22flexdnice:o
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13:21.04ScaredyCathttp://buildhost.automated.it/blues-exampples-python.tar.gz
13:21.24CMWow, nice hw: http://www.unwiredview.com/2007/11/06/htc-omni-surfaces-at-google-as-htc-dreamwith-android-os/
13:21.52ScaredyCatI bet you say that to all the girls CM
13:22.13CMScaredyCat: No, more like "Nice softwares you've got.." ;)
13:22.35ScaredyCat:)
13:22.38CMScaredyCat: Or "I'll bring the hardware" (Ouch that was bad..)
13:23.00ScaredyCatI'll bring the hardware, you bring the wetware....
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13:26.49flexdsorry, suddnely got people to help here heh
13:26.56flexdim looking
13:28.34flexdand brb again, damnit, stupid work
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13:46.18flexdScaredyCat: Only problem with that is that the advanced ones are only for linux :/
13:46.33flexdthis is one of those days i wish i ran debian fulltime
13:46.50ScaredyCatyou can run a vm unser windows :)
13:47.04flexd>_<
13:47.16flexdI'm gonna stick with just the discover device thing
13:47.17ScaredyCator run windows in a vm
13:47.32flexdJust need a system to find out if a device has earlier been in range
13:47.44flexdwhy run windows in a vm?
13:48.00ScaredyCatwell, you run windows, I was sure there was a reason for it...
13:48.06flexdoffice requirement
13:49.01ScaredyCatso run it in a vm
13:49.07flexdIt's gonna lag?
13:49.17ScaredyCatdepends on the host
13:49.32flexda hp nc6320 laptop
13:49.35flexdc2d something
13:49.51flexdBut then again it would be a minimum xp install
13:49.54ScaredyCatruns ok on my lappy, 1.6 ghz cellery
13:50.04flexdi dont think i actually *need* windows either
13:50.05ScaredyCatno that i use it much
13:50.11flexdaslong as i can perform all tasks needed
13:50.25flexd(remote desktop to the win2k3 server, fix shit with office and stuff)
13:50.42flexdsurf the web, watch movies like normal during office hours, code python :<
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13:53.43flexd(im not the perfect employee until i actually get tasks to do, little to do at support when people dont ask for support :/)
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13:54.42ScaredyCatlazy fecking students :P
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13:55.41zashflexd: i know the feeling
13:55.54buzwoah opera mini sure is neat these days http://www.operamini.com/demo/
13:56.01flexdbuz: mhm
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13:56.49buzthe transparent proxy is particularly useful for overpriced gprs
13:57.01Xx13buz: great web site, kills mozilla
13:57.12buzthat would be java, not the website ;)
13:57.32zashyay for java!
13:57.58buzworks just fine in my konqui
13:57.58Xx13maybe my jvm is screwd  Ð¶)
13:58.00Stephmwworks fine in FF and Epiphany here :)
13:58.19buzXx13: probably so
13:58.32Xx13<PROTECTED>
13:58.36buzi think its quite remarkable that you can do something like that in J2ME
13:58.40Xx13SIGSEGV (0xb) at pc=0x00002b1bf7d8d7da, pid=17711, tid=1100601664
13:58.56flexdScaredyCat: I'm sort of confusing myself with if-sentances here, this probably wont work but; http://rafb.net/p/UEN2Kp41.html
13:59.04flexdif you even remotely understand what im doing in there heh
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14:02.03ScaredyCatwell, first of all, why on line 11 set somehting you checked
14:02.36flexdScaredyCat: trying to thing of a system :p
14:02.46flexdif the device is in range, status for that device = 1
14:03.02ScaredyCatyes, but the line before, you check to see if it is 1
14:03.03flexdon the next check, if that device isnt there, set status to 0, or remove it or something
14:03.16flexdright
14:03.35flexdgood point
14:03.37ScaredyCatusd is tanking.....
14:03.45*** join/#openmoko melunko (n=hmelo@200.184.118.132)
14:03.46ScaredyCat2.10 == 1gbp
14:04.07*** join/#openmoko melunko (n=hmelo@200.184.118.132)
14:04.15XorAScaredyCat: I shall buy the US in a few days
14:04.29CMThe Chinese soon can
14:04.36ScaredyCatI want Alaska
14:04.42CMThe US debt to China is getting out of control
14:04.44XorAI want the bit with hot chicks
14:04.48ScaredyCatdon't they already own it CM ?
14:04.52CMScaredyCat: Do that, I'll take Hawai
14:05.22ScaredyCatyou'll all be sorry when global warming melts my snow and drowns you all
14:05.45ScaredyCatand then I'll charge you for the water...
14:05.57CMThe Oil price is soon 100USD per barrel too, early 1999 it was 9.40, and mid 2003 around 17
14:06.36ScaredyCat100usd, about 20 pence then ;)
14:07.52*** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@190.24.92.141)
14:07.54flexdwhy buy usd? it's like super low atm :/
14:08.01flexdprobably wont go up
14:08.02ScaredyCatthat's the point...
14:08.14flexdamerica is going down, the dollar is dead!111
14:08.15ScaredyCatbuy low sell high flexd
14:08.27ScaredyCatmost of use aren't in the US
14:08.54*** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=irc@mauve.plus.com)
14:08.57XorAthat internet gambling country problably owns US by now  :-D
14:08.57ScaredyCateven Canadians can speculate on usd
14:08.58ScaredyCat:)
14:09.54nnpiggyhttp://www.weymouth.ma.us/schools/esc/index.asp?id=1007 hot American chicks for XorA...
14:10.51CMHmm.. Sucks to run gentoo when glibc fails to compile, after about 45 minutes.. :P
14:10.59XorAnnpiggy: HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
14:11.03CMTrying out patches isn't fast..
14:11.28*** join/#openmoko rcostine (n=rjc@74.95.177.193)
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14:24.51mindshiftwhere can I buy on of these?
14:24.54mindshiftone
14:25.06zashrtft
14:25.07ScaredyCatwww.openmoko.com
14:25.15zashread topic i say!
14:27.30cb24zash, what, you mean you're actually expected to read it?
14:27.39cb24that sounds *so* hard
14:28.08cjb_iethose crazy people bothering to write it
14:28.14cjb_iewhat drugs are they on!
14:29.35ScaredyCat!ombug 954
14:29.36ScaredyCatcackmonkey
14:29.36cdbot2* * Bug 954, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
14:29.37cdbot2* * bugslayer(AT)o2.pl: MokoMakefile does not build image files even after successful packages compilation
14:29.38cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=954
14:30.20ScaredyCat!ombug 953
14:30.21cdbot2* * Bug 953, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown
14:30.22cdbot2* * koen(AT)openembedded.org: openmoko-today r3245 doesn't build
14:30.23cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=953
14:30.27ScaredyCat:/
14:32.19*** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-012.eplus-online.de)
14:32.21*** join/#openmoko zween_ (n=zween@79-68-33-172.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
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14:41.08gi-elhey, it builds again
14:41.16gi-elsee, the kdrive problem solved itself :)
14:41.26CM:)
14:42.01cb24!ombug 957
14:42.02cdbot2* * Bug 957, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
14:42.03cdbot2* * <laforge>: No driver for HDQ bus / coulomb counter in new GTA02 battery
14:42.04cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=957
14:42.08cb24!ombug 956
14:42.09cdbot2* * Bug 956, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
14:42.10cdbot2* * <laforge>: GTA02 charging with 1000mA using wall-outlet charger
14:42.11cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=956
14:42.17ScaredyCat!!!!!
14:42.19cb24those are my two favourite bugs at the moment
14:42.52CMcb24: What did you do with cb23 btw? ;)
14:43.12cb24CM, heh, instead of adding a _ i just up my number :)
14:43.42CMcb22: You should say that you're just getting older :)
14:43.56cb22heh, the 22 has nothing to do with my age
14:44.02cb22i'm 16 or so
14:44.20cb16just doesnt have the same ring to it...
14:45.56vivijimhey guys, when will new device (gta02?) be available for shop?
14:46.15cb22<zash> read topic i say!
14:46.15cb22<cb24> zash, what, you mean you're actually expected to read it?
14:46.15cb22<cb24> that sounds *so* hard
14:46.26vivijimops, sorry! hehehe
14:46.32cb22:), december as of last info
14:46.51XorAbad vivijim :-D
14:47.14zashtopic does not fit in 80x25-xterm+irssi.. file a bug, someone!
14:47.20vivijimXorA: stupid vivijim I'd say
14:47.27*** part/#openmoko markit (n=marco@88-149-177-66.static.ngi.it)
14:47.58gi-elzash: or, you type /t
14:48.02gi-elzash: or, you read it on join
14:48.40gi-elbtw, what's up with android? are you guys involved with that? :P
14:49.32cb22Also, don't bring up Android for your own safety, thanks
14:49.36zashgi-el: irssi + screen + someone elses server + ups ;) .. i dont join
14:49.44gi-elzash: still, /t
14:50.05zash:D
14:50.07ScaredyCatwhat was the dbus list command for gconftool again?
14:50.41gi-el19:05 < mickeyl> gconftool-2 --type string --set /desktop/poky/interface/wallpaper /usr/share/pixmaps/foo.png
14:50.45gi-el19:05 < jeddy3> mickeyl, aah! gconftool, didn't realize i had a gconf-register on my phone =)
14:50.48gi-el00:07 < abraxa_> mwester:  dbus-launch gconftool-2 -t bool -s /desktop/poky/interface/digital_clock false
14:50.52gi-el21:52 < abraxa_> dbus-launch gconftool-2 -t bool -s /desktop/poky/interface/digital_clock false
14:50.55gi-el22:03 < abraxa_> ScaredyCat: "dbus-launch gconftool-2 -R /" shows you everything GConf has to offer
14:50.59gi-elone of those?
14:51.01gi-el:)
14:51.03gi-elthe last one, pbly
14:51.07ScaredyCatthat's the one :)
14:51.12ScaredyCatthe last one
14:51.13gi-elyay for lastlog! :)
14:51.14ScaredyCatta
14:52.42ScaredyCathttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1O2jcfOylU
14:54.35CMScaredyCat: Get three nice LCD's and use this wallpaper too: http://desktopgaming.com/display.php?file_id=225
14:57.11gi-elCM: 2 will do
14:57.35CMTwo nice widescreens yes :)
14:58.14gi-eleven two un-widescreens
14:58.18gi-el1600x1200 is not wide
14:59.35ScaredyCat3200x1200
14:59.53*** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-012.eplus-online.de)
15:00.28*** join/#openmoko dashavoo (n=dashavoo@77-100-172-21.cable.ubr04.wals.blueyonder.co.uk)
15:06.13zashCM: count? who does that anymore?
15:06.27zashwhy do you think the calculator was invented?
15:06.29zash;D
15:06.40zashalso, bc+xterm ftw
15:15.40CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3366 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
15:15.40CIA-13openmoko: * src/Makefile.am:
15:15.40CIA-13openmoko: * src/am-progress-dialog.c:
15:15.40CIA-13openmoko: * src/am-progress-dialog.h:
15:15.41CIA-13openmoko: Add a generic progress dialog class
15:16.08gi-elzash: dc!
15:16.19ScaredyCatyou know the analog clock..
15:16.27ScaredyCatwhy is it wrong?
15:16.54zashtz/dst?
15:17.20_diego_date what does it say?
15:17.32ScaredyCat<PROTECTED>
15:17.33ScaredyCatWed Nov  7 15:14:24 GMT 2007
15:17.41ScaredyCatclock says 5 to 3
15:18.05ScaredyCatoops
15:18.06ScaredyCatlol
15:18.12ScaredyCatdid date on wrong box
15:18.18CMHehe
15:19.10zashWed Nov  7 16:19:09 CET 2007
15:19.20*** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2)
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15:27.13flexdgdamnit, f*cking irssi :
15:28.13CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3367 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/ipkgapi.c src/ipkgapi.h):
15:28.13CIA-13openmoko: * src/ipkgapi.c:
15:28.13CIA-13openmoko: * src/ipkgapi.h:
15:28.13CIA-13openmoko: Add ipkg_update_cmd() to update the package lists
15:31.25CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3368 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/ipkg-utils.c src/ipkg-utils.h):
15:31.25CIA-13openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.c:
15:31.26CIA-13openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.h:
15:31.26CIA-13openmoko: - Use generic progress dialog to display progress of ipkg functions
15:31.26CIA-13openmoko: - Add package list update functionality
15:33.01CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3369 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/appmanager-window.c src/tool-box.c):
15:33.01CIA-13openmoko: * src/appmanager-window.c: (main): Request a package list update if the
15:33.02CIA-13openmoko: package list could not be opened.
15:33.02CIA-13openmoko: * src/tool-box.c: (on_upgrade_clicked): Use the upgrade button to
15:33.02CIA-13openmoko: update the package list
15:36.14*** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it)
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15:48.33CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3370 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/am-progress-dialog.h src/ipkg-utils.c):
15:48.33CIA-13openmoko: * src/am-progress-dialog.h:
15:48.33CIA-13openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.c:
15:48.33CIA-13openmoko: Fix compiler warnings
15:50.34*** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net)
15:50.59zashis there any plans for a sms progarm?
15:51.36CMYikes.. the last updates to ipkg was 9 months ago, but that was just a few things.. Most other things seem to be at least 2 years old..
15:52.18mickeylyeah, ipkg is patheitc
15:52.21mickeylpathetic, even
15:52.28mickeylbut it works and we know its quirks
15:52.34CM*nod*
15:52.38ScaredyCatipkg upgrade ipkg
15:52.39mickeylmakes it tough to invest a _lot_ of time doing something new
15:53.33CMCan understand that. Just that if feels a bit uncertain to depend on it when it's kind of abandoned
15:54.25ScaredyCatwhat's up with it... ?
15:54.33ScaredyCatI mean it works, right?
15:55.03*** join/#openmoko martin_lundstrom (n=martin_l@ip-213.net-82-216-94.rev.numericable.fr)
15:55.16martin_lundstromHello folks
15:56.01xaid|workmartin_lundstrom: Hello
15:58.20*** part/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.0.fullrate.dk)
15:58.20martin_lundstromDoes anyone know if it is possible to have gprs going in the background and make a normal voice telephone call?
15:58.40martin_lundstromat the same time
15:59.32*** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@79.136.4.233)
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16:02.49CMScaredyCat: http://rafb.net/p/523odT40.html
16:04.29*** join/#openmoko mrfan__ (n=ventola@lugbari/people/mrfan)
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16:19.53martin_lundstromopenmoko.org
16:19.58martin_lundstromopenmoko.com
16:20.38martin_lundstromsorry
16:21.17martin_lundstromcunfused ;)
16:23.08*** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=vivek@59.176.111.177)
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16:27.24blinxneo_modem_switch: Modem powered up.
16:27.24blinxneo_modem_rst_switch: Modem reset.
16:27.47blinxlatest scaredycat's image
16:27.47*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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16:28.11Writchie|martin_lunstrom: neo is Class B - GPRS session will be suspended during voice or CSD call
16:28.18blinxwith qemu. On the screen is written: "Please wait..." but there is something wrong.. anyone an idea?
16:28.29torporscarey:
16:28.29torpormtn: warning: Failed to write options file _MTN/options: misuse: cannot open file _MTN/data.tmp.5448 for writing
16:28.32torpormtn: error: sqlite error: unable to open database file
16:28.36torporwhat does this mean?
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16:30.31martin_lundstromWritchie|: Will that ever change?
16:31.23Writchie|future phones MAY support DTM but it is more likely that the first neo devices to support this will be 3G devices.
16:32.19martin_lundstromso it wont change in the neo1973
16:32.50Writchie|not likely
16:32.56martin_lundstromok
16:33.43*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219)
16:33.51Writchie|martin_lunstrom: it's possible that the DTM feature is available in the firmware and could be enabled but this feature also requires support from the network.
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16:36.02PBeckhi
16:38.18dashavooI have been looking through the wiki etc. but im still unsure... what functionality will the GTA02 have? I cant tell what is actual functionality, what is wishlist functionality, etc.
16:39.07martin_lundstromdashavoo: there is aparently happening much
16:39.11ScaredyCat"the make's womens clothes fall off" is a wishlist item... can't remember who wished for that one...
16:39.25CMdashavoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29
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16:40.35blinxhttp://paste.pocoo.org/show/9463/ <- how I can skip this check in qemu and disable the sound or change the sound device to my real one?
16:41.23dashavooCM, that tells me what hardware it will have, but what about actual functions, i.e. dialer, sms, browser
16:43.09mickeylScaredyCat: hahaha
16:43.16mickeylScaredyCat: hopefully tweakable...
16:43.20blinxScaredyCat: here?
16:43.34blinxScaredyCat: some trouble with your images...
16:43.52blinxespecially your latest one doesn't want to work
16:44.13blinxit makes problems with the sound see: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/9463/#
16:44.55ScaredyCatI've just flshed it onto my neo, testing it now
16:45.03ScaredyCatflashed
16:45.16blinxit tries and tries again but openmoko doesn't go on with the boot progress, now my question: how I can fix that or how can I turn off the sound?
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17:00.59blinxScaredyCat: ping
17:01.43blinxScaredyCat: qemu blocks /dev/dsp itselves
17:01.56*** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net)
17:02.09CIA-13openmoko: 03olv * r3371 10/developers/olv/openmoko-agpsui2/ (54 files in 6 dirs):
17:02.09CIA-13openmoko: Release openmoko-agpsui2 (with modifications) under GPLv2 or later.
17:02.09CIA-13openmoko: The author is Ken Yale from Global Locate (now Broadcom).
17:02.32abraxa_Interesting :O
17:03.30CoreDumphmmm, what about a working driver? Or did I miss something?
17:03.44emdetehm, i need some help with ipkg. mine doesnt install anything anymore. see http://rafb.net/p/imXArl43.html
17:04.20CoreDump"annot find package libwebkitgtk1."
17:04.43CoreDumpyour package probably has the wrong ARCH (armv4t)
17:05.14emdeteCoreDump: i did not choose the arch, i use mokomakefile ;)
17:05.16*** join/#openmoko danilo_ (n=danilo@75.144.175.202)
17:05.17*** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=vivek@59.176.111.177)
17:05.32emdeteCoreDump: it's a ScaredyCat image... is that different?
17:05.44CoreDumpcheck /etc/ipkg/arch.conf if it contains this arch
17:05.50CoreDumpemdete: I dunno
17:07.14emdeteCoreDump: shit, that file is missing... whats in there, normaly?
17:07.23CoreDumpall arches =)
17:07.32ScaredyCatmmm... odd
17:07.41ScaredyCatit's on mine
17:07.47emdetecat you paste that for me - i probably deleted it myself... :(
17:07.51CoreDumpI don't have a build-env or neo handy or I'd pastebin it for you
17:07.52ScaredyCatmuppey
17:07.56ScaredyCat-y+t
17:08.29CIA-13openmoko: 03olv * r3372 10/developers/olv/openmoko-agpsui2/lto/.deps/: remove generated files
17:08.51CoreDumpreviving a P0 w/ drained battery literally takes for ever
17:08.53blinxScaredyCat: what can I do?
17:08.53ScaredyCathttp://rafb.net/p/v0RLQj88.html
17:08.57emdeteScaredyCat: sry. :D i have a script that fixes some things after flashing over ssh. there was a bug in there, that's probably one of the effects..
17:09.58*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.80.81)
17:11.29ScaredyCatblinx: sorry I know nowt about qemu...
17:11.38ScaredyCatis sound configgled?
17:12.16blinxScaredyCat: previous versions worked
17:12.25blinxcan I deactivate the sound anywhere?
17:13.02ScaredyCathrmm... I'll have a play
17:14.39ScaredyCatthat reminds me, thanks CoreDump
17:15.09CoreDumpScaredyCat: ;)
17:15.30CoreDumpcharging over USB just hasn't enough oomph for the neo
17:15.30mickeylit should be better now that the 50mA bug has been fixed
17:15.46ScaredyCatroflmao.... 50ma?
17:15.48CoreDumpmib_force: it will charge faster when turned off now?
17:16.20CoreDumpScaredyCat: dead battery = can't turn on neo = always charges w/ 50mA....
17:16.29mickeylit now charges w/ 100mA
17:16.41CoreDumpmickeyl: that is great news =)
17:16.47mickeylsome register typo in the PMU settings
17:16.48mickeylheh
17:16.54ljpwhere was that fixed?
17:17.00ScaredyCatok, so it was supposed to do 100 or 500 but was only doing @ 50 ?
17:17.09mickeylno, the 500 is not affected
17:17.18ScaredyCatk
17:17.21mickeylit's the unenumerated -- aka dumb charger mode
17:17.29mickeylljp: kernel or uboot, or both, dunno
17:17.32CoreDumpmickeyl: has the u-boot "charger" function been fixed? changing it manually from fast to slow did nothing when I checked
17:17.42mickeylCoreDump: no idea, sorry
17:18.33emdetehm, since when doesn't mokomakefile build the dependend .ipk?
17:18.40emdeteis there a option for that?
17:19.12CoreDumpScaredyCat: it was supposed to do 100ma when I only did 50mA. This bug only occurs when the neo is turned off. A booted neo will charge w/ 500mA
17:19.55ScaredyCatof
17:20.24emdeteScaredyCat: :D how do you change battery without rebooting? do you have a trick for that?
17:20.47ScaredyCatI wire a potato in parallel
17:20.56CoreDump=D
17:20.58mmontourljp: the 100mA u-boot fix was r3147
17:22.06ScaredyCatCoreDump: who the hell has a desk that tidy!
17:22.14CoreDumphehe
17:22.27Writchieljp: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=762
17:22.51ljpthanks
17:23.09CoreDumpScaredyCat: heh indeed. That wasn't my own desk...guess why
17:23.27*** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac04711.bb.sky.com)
17:23.46ScaredyCat:)
17:24.07ljphmmm. ok moko12
17:25.01*** join/#openmoko bspencer (i=bob@nat/intel/x-b4e6d3cef6c23af5)
17:26.11ScaredyCatmoko12
17:26.44CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3373 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:26.44CIA-13openmoko: * src/appmanager-data.h:
17:26.44CIA-13openmoko: * src/navigation-area.c: (on_selection_changed),
17:26.44CIA-13openmoko: (navigation_area_new):
17:26.45CIA-13openmoko: * src/search-bar.c: (search_bar_new):
17:26.46CIA-13openmoko: Add package name text search support
17:28.28mmontourLooks like the "latest" uboot built by MokoMakefile still has the 50mA bug (svn2943)
17:29.47CoreDumpmmontour: really? :\
17:30.12*** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AC323.dip.t-dialin.net)
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17:32.14ScaredyCator not :/
17:32.56ScaredyCatCROSS_COMPILE=arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi- fic-gta01_config
17:33.03ScaredyCatthat space shouldn't be there, right?
17:33.50abraxa_Doubtful
17:34.17*** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5486B.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:35.11mickeyllooks good to me
17:35.24mickeylfic-gta01_config is the actual config for uboot
17:35.41mickeylarm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi- is the compiler prefix
17:35.48abraxa_Oh, interesting
17:35.54*** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at)
17:35.55abraxa_I wouldn't have guessed that either :)
17:36.39ScaredyCatmmmmmm
17:37.30mmontourOn my system I edited the openembedded/packages/uboot/uboot-openmoko[...]+svn2943.bb file and set UBOOT_OPENMOKO_REV = "3147"
17:37.49mmontourIt worked for me, but try at your own risk (I have a debug board...)
17:38.07mickeylthe problem with later uboot revs is the infamous boot hang
17:38.21*** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178089046.adsl.alicedsl.de)
17:38.24CMYikes
17:38.42mickeyl!ombug 887
17:38.44cdbot2* * Bug 887, Status: ASSIGNED, Created: Unknown
17:38.45cdbot2* * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: U-Boot initialization race condition: Hangs on boot
17:38.46cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=887
17:38.53mickeylyo woglinde
17:39.14Stephmwhey woglinde
17:39.49CMOperaMini 4 was impressive
17:40.04mmontourI had the same boot hang problem with the svn2943 rev. It works if I hold the Aux button to get to the uboot menu.
17:40.07StephmwCM: enjoyed the ride?
17:40.33CMStephmw: It actually felt fast on my W610
17:40.43*** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand)
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17:41.00ScaredyCatbug
17:41.11xkr47hello
17:41.53xkr47any quick answer for what to do when getting Disk full during ipkg upgrade
17:42.14xkr47I haven't installed anything much, mostly been upgrading
17:42.23*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219)
17:42.38CMReflash? ;)
17:42.41xkr47...
17:42.56xkr47so what does ipkg upgrade do that consumes disk space that a reflash doesn't ?-)
17:42.58ScaredyCatwhen you delete stuff the space dosn't 'appear' immediately
17:43.08xkr47oh
17:43.16xkr47rootfs feature ?
17:43.20ScaredyCatit's the files system
17:43.26xkr47right
17:44.01xkr47have the microsd flash write problems that were visible in dmesg in august been worked out ?
17:44.43CM"About every three months this year there has been a mobile Linux initiative of some sort launched. It's a bit like the common cold. It keeps coming round and then we go back to business." - Symbian vice president, John Forsyth
17:44.53*** join/#openmoko [PI]Sami (n=sami@a9b.pirttimaki.jyu.fi)
17:44.55*** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@81-208-31-222.ip.fastwebnet.it)
17:45.05xkr47heh
17:45.07ScaredyCat"runs in the background, turning dirty blocks into free blocks. It does this by copying valid nodes to a new block and skipping obsolete ones. That done, it erases the dirty block and tags it with a special marker designating it as a free block"
17:45.53WritchieCM: and ten years ago every 3 months we had another search engine ;)
17:45.57xkr47CM, eventually they will use Linux, so their point about symbian is moot, but their unspoken point about them ruling the world is actually what is the case
17:46.09xkr47Writchie, :)
17:46.13CMHehe
17:48.41ScaredyCatwell, symbian sucks..
17:49.01ScaredyCatany phone that needs to reboot to close applications is retarded..
17:49.37ScaredyCatalthough that's probably becasue SE got hold of it...
17:49.49ScaredyCatand probably isn;t symbian per se
17:50.08*** part/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net)
17:50.11ewonheh
17:50.13ScaredyCatbut since when did the facts get in the way of me detesting somehting
17:50.41emdetedeveloping for symbian must be hell - the realtime features of symbian must be better that those in linux... as some collegs told me.
17:50.43ScaredyCatsame goes for dbus stuff too...
17:51.17mickeyl?
17:51.26ScaredyCat:)
17:51.43ScaredyCatI was just saying what a sack of shit symbian was...
17:51.52ScaredyCaton SE phones..
17:51.58ScaredyCatrequiring reboots n all...
17:52.03mickeylthat's retarded
17:52.10torporanyone working on some new apps?
17:52.13CMScaredyCat: I've never had to reboot my w610 yet
17:52.20CMExcept when changing sim card
17:52.50CMHaven't installed any new native apps though, just j2me
17:52.53ScaredyCatand it reminded me  how changes with dbus on the neo seem to require a n app restart, which in the case of today2 is as good as a reboot
17:53.15ScaredyCatI gave my p910i to the wife...
17:53.16mickeylhmm
17:53.19ScaredyCatis eas that bad
17:53.21ScaredyCatwas
17:53.24mickeylwhat do you think of exactly?
17:53.25StephmwCM: you can use native apps on there? my W880i doesn't seem to have any available
17:53.30mickeyl[dbus today, app restart]
17:54.18ScaredyCatmickeyl: ? /me no understandy
17:54.52StephmwScaredyCat: the p sony ericssons had a really shitty VM
17:55.16ScaredyCatfor something like the clock for example: setting digital_clock false will require an app restart...
17:55.38ScaredyCatI'm assuming because the dbus config is only read at startup of the app..?
17:56.25ScaredyCatimho a change int he config should be a trigger..
17:57.01mickeylaah
17:57.04mickeylright
17:57.06mickeylthat's not a problem
17:57.14mickeylwe can't fix
17:57.23mickeylgconf provides a call for notification
17:57.27mickeylthe apps just need to use that
17:57.32ScaredyCatah ok...
17:58.01mickeylright now they only read on startup, but eventually they'll listen to it
17:58.06zeckemickeyl: gutsy? finally left rpm's behind?
17:58.19ScaredyCatok, that's good, ta mickeyl
17:58.39guaquais gutsy running okay on your computers?
17:58.40mickeylnp
17:58.46mickeylzecke: yeah... well let's see
17:58.53mickeylright now Ubuntu looks good
17:58.56guaquamine just crashes at some point when i try building something bigger
17:59.02mickeylalthough everything takes long because i don't find things
17:59.05zeckemickeyl: congrats, and you use gnome as well?
17:59.10mickeylzecke: yep
17:59.10*** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@lavalette.guerrier.info)
17:59.10ScaredyCatbusybox still guaqua?
17:59.17zeckehehe
17:59.20guaquanever was busybox
17:59.27mickeylzecke: gnome desktop, but kdevelop and konsole ;)
17:59.28guaquacrashes are random
17:59.40mickeyland some other kde apps
17:59.41guaquacame along with gutsy
18:00.07*** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@75.144.175.202)
18:05.10hrwmickeyl: switch to "kubuntu" then?
18:05.27mickeylno need to. i already aptitude'd kubuntu-desktop
18:05.29abraxa_ScaredyCat: Want an OE recipe for openmoko-agpsui2?
18:05.41ScaredyCatyes please :)
18:05.46hrwabraxa_: openmoko-agpsui2 is useless anyway
18:05.55ScaredyCat:(
18:06.05abraxa_hrw: Why?
18:06.07hrwofficially only few devs have gllin which this tool require
18:06.14*** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk)
18:06.22*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-6-231.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
18:06.31abraxa_So? Can't harm to let people have a look
18:06.42CMDoes it include the chroot?
18:06.48abraxa_No
18:06.48CMI mean openmoko-agpsui2?
18:06.51CMok
18:07.35hrwits like mokostat - tool which was written and is not usable yet
18:07.54*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net)
18:07.58hrwnot to mention that mokostat use gpsd interface which has nothing common with gta01 gps
18:08.08abraxa_ScaredyCat: http://abraxa.dyndnsorg:81/random/openmoko-agpsui2_svn.bb - not the prettiest but it's the only way I got AUTOREV to actually work
18:08.22abraxa_http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/openmoko-agpsui2_svn.bb
18:08.35*** join/#openmoko |R (i=bob@modemcable241.28-203-24.mc.videotron.ca)
18:08.39hrwIceweasel can't find the server at www.abraxa.dyndns.org
18:08.55abraxa_Huh?
18:09.07CMWorks here
18:09.27hrwabraxa_: SRCREV ?= "${AUTOREV}" should be enough
18:09.37dashavoodoes gps on the neo1973 have the possibility to ever be as good as a standalone satnav?
18:09.47CoreDumpnot reachable from here either
18:09.47abraxa_hrw: Thanks, I'll try that
18:09.50dashavoo(thought id ask while it was on topic)
18:09.53hrwwww.abraxa does not works - firefox added www.
18:10.01ScaredyCatmissed the . before org
18:10.11hrwdashavoo: if someone will write apps for navigation...
18:10.28hrwdashavoo: biggest problem with navigation software is lack of good maps to use
18:11.06ScaredyCateeer
18:11.08dashavoohmm... none available for free?
18:11.51buzdashavoo: i think nokia maps are available, but not sure what license
18:11.54abraxa_hrw: No go... svn: Unable to find repository location for 'http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/olv/openmoko-agpsui2' in revision 1
18:11.56buzprobably only for use with nokia hardware
18:12.22dashavooil google it and see :)
18:13.11hrwbuz: rather not available for free - they paid for them
18:13.41buzi did read something about free navigation on nokia phones but pay if you want voice out
18:13.47buznot sure what they do with the maps
18:15.39ScaredyCatyou sure that works for you abraxa_ ?
18:16.00*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178221166.adsl.alicedsl.de)
18:16.04abraxa_ScaredyCat: Yeah, worked fine for me. Do you get errors?
18:16.06dashavoohrw|gone, nice, im building me a new pc as soon as I find someone to buy the car im selling :P
18:16.29dashavoobuz, looks like the same deal with the maps as the navigation etc.
18:16.55ScaredyCathttp://pastebin.ca/764945
18:18.02ScaredyCatthat autorev not getting translated?
18:19.01dashavooopenstreetmap looks like it might be useful in the future
18:20.05SpeedEvilLarge parts of the US have already got 100% complete mapping. All of NL does.
18:20.24dashavooI care more about the UK than the US
18:20.28SpeedEvilThe tiger data import is proceeding slowly (Import of US government dataset of roads)
18:20.43SpeedEvilI added a road yesterday to the UK.
18:20.53dashavoocool
18:20.57dashavoohow do you add to it?
18:21.05SpeedEvilTake a GPS trace.
18:21.10SpeedEvilLoad into editor.
18:21.20SpeedEvilcreate appropriate class of road along it.
18:21.30SpeedEvilAnd features, ...
18:22.06*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219)
18:22.07dashavoothat doesnt sound too bad, I might have a go sometime
18:22.16ScaredyCatabraxa_: forcing the autore to 3372 fixed it - I don;t think autorev is anythign/
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18:22.30*** part/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it)
18:22.57abraxa_ScaredyCat: Yeah, didn't wanna use a fixed rev, though that AUTOREV construct did work for me. The SVN fetcher is a mystery to me.
18:23.15SpeedEvildashavoo: irc.oftc.net #osm
18:23.22ScaredyCatSpeedEvil: I'd debate "All of .nl"
18:23.32SpeedEvilScaredyCat: ?
18:23.43ScaredyCatmy house aint there
18:23.56SpeedEvilAs I understood it, all the roads are present.
18:24.13enjahovau live in nl ScaredyCat
18:24.13ScaredyCatwait
18:24.14enjahova?
18:24.17ScaredyCatholy crap...
18:24.29ScaredyCatthey updated it recently?
18:24.40ScaredyCatenjahova: yes, and in the uk...
18:24.47ScaredyCatmoving house
18:24.49enjahovado you speak dutch?
18:24.55ScaredyCatwhen this one sells
18:24.59enjahovaah
18:25.15ScaredyCateen klein beetje
18:25.16SpeedEvilScaredyCat: there has recently been a _large_ import of data from the company AND
18:25.22SpeedEvilwhich covered .nl
18:25.52ScaredyCatyes, I take back what I said...
18:26.01ScaredyCatthat coverage is fecking awesome...
18:26.09ScaredyCatit wasn;t there last time i looked..
18:26.09SpeedEvilIn a way, this is not so much openstreetmap.
18:26.27SpeedEvilIt's simply someone giving away traditionally gathered map data
18:26.35SpeedEvilhowever.
18:26.37ScaredyCatyeah, but it's still freely available...
18:26.54SpeedEvilIn some places in the UK, there are large patches - for example much of london - which are covered
18:28.59ScaredyCatyeah, london is always going to get done first...
18:29.14ScaredyCatbut that .nl coverage... well... I just got up off the floor
18:29.42enjahovawhere did you look to see it?
18:30.35dashavooI hope the West Midlands gets done pretty quickly, itd be awesome
18:30.40*** join/#openmoko Loverman- (n=ligeqvd@200.153.54.199)
18:31.05ScaredyCatenjahova: www.openstreetmap.org
18:31.32ScaredyCatzoom in on .nl
18:32.15enjahovanice
18:32.48ScaredyCatyeah, very.
18:33.16enjahovai want to move back ^_^
18:33.23enjahovadoes OM work there?
18:33.28ScaredyCatwell, I just found a big gap...
18:33.35*** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-245-233.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:33.37ScaredyCatwanna buy a house :)
18:33.48ScaredyCatyeah, I have mine beside me :)
18:33.49enjahovahaha, i'm just a student =\
18:33.57ScaredyCatstart saving
18:34.10enjahovai'm also in america, so my money is kind of worthless
18:34.47CoreDumplol
18:34.50ScaredyCatroflmao
18:35.45*** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-126-no83.tbcn.telia.com)
18:37.16enjahovaso whats up with GIS stuff in OM?
18:37.27enjahovais there talk of homebrew navigation stuff?
18:37.55enjahovai do a little web gis, maybe i can help with something?
18:40.15cjb_ieenjahova: cool, have you heard of openstreetmap?
18:41.32enjahovayes
18:41.59enjahovaalso messed with openlayers, the code in the browser that shows it
18:42.04cjb_ieexcellent
18:42.38cjb_iei'll spare you the spiel then :)
18:42.56enjahovahehe, but i don't know the state of gis in OM
18:43.31cjb_iethe GPS in GTA01 works if you find the firmware blob for it
18:43.39cjb_ieGTA02 has a different GPS chipset
18:44.17cjb_ieSpeedEvil would be the main guy with a finger on both OM and OSM pulses
18:45.10*** join/#openmoko vallor (n=Rock@pdpc/supporter/monthlygold/vallor)
18:45.31cjb_ieah, a screenful or two back, you already talked to him. i can shut up now :)
18:46.32enjahovahehe
18:47.52dashavooim glad I decided to drop into the IRC channel... its got me thinking I want to contribute to the project somehow
18:48.45*** topic/#openmoko by don-o -> Android
18:48.51don-ooh crap sorry
18:49.07ScaredyCatlol
18:49.27*** topic/#openmoko by don-o -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Latest official update is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates - Also, don't bring up Android for your own safety, thanks
18:50.25dashavooreading that makes it so tempting to ask what/who Android is... but I care about my safety so I will keep quiet
18:51.09abraxa_dashavoo: Let's just say that it's related to google's mobile phone efforts
18:51.27dashavooaha, ok
18:51.37cjb_ieand definitely don't ask what "open" means in that context ;-)
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18:52.01dashavoolol
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19:18.02LarsBKhello
19:19.27enjahovadoes OM have libcurl?
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19:24.38woglindeenjahova openembedded has libcurl
19:24.46woglindeand so OM has it too
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19:39.52Bardackhep
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19:40.40BardackI think that I have a "good" idea for an application for the openmoko project. But I am not sure I can put the "idea" on projects.openmoko.org
19:40.50cjb_iewhy so?
19:40.52Bardackbecause it is just an idea, not a concrete project
19:41.14torporeh?
19:41.28Bardack?
19:41.29torporthe only good idea for an openmoko application is a running openmoko application.
19:41.32torpor;)
19:41.34torporjust do it.
19:41.38Bardackyeah
19:41.59Bardackmaybe I can propose the application here, to see the feedback if it is a good idea or not
19:42.04cjb_ieBardack: well, would you like to discuss the idea here?
19:42.07cjb_iesnap :)
19:42.08abraxa__Go for it, Bardack
19:42.13abraxa__lol cjb_ie
19:42.16Bardackyep
19:42.39BardackI thinked about this idea last week, when I lost my cellular phone
19:42.42Bardackthe idea is:
19:42.58Bardackwhen you lost your phone (forgot to a friend, in a car , ...)
19:43.07Bardackjust send a special SMS to your smartphone
19:43.30ecravenenti
19:43.33Bardackthen He will know that their is a request , he takes his corrdinates (X,Y)
19:43.35ecravensorry, mistype
19:43.38Bardackand send back
19:44.05cjb_iethat's fine, but nearly always when you lose your phone it will be out of GPS coverage
19:44.20Bardackwhy?
19:44.28CoreDumpmurphys law
19:44.30BardackI speak about lose, not picked
19:44.34LarsBKgps only works outside..
19:44.42cjb_ieif you leave it indoors, no GPS
19:44.54Bardack?
19:44.55cjb_ieif you leave it in a car - maybe no GPS - depending on where in the car it is
19:44.58abraxa__Maybe AGPS can be beneficial here
19:45.17Bardackheu ... I have a PDA with GPS, and in my home the GPS is OK
19:45.43cjb_ieBardack: okay, that's not the case with most GPSes. sirf3?
19:46.00Bardackyep it use SIRF3
19:46.13Bardackthe AGPS in Neo will be not that good?
19:46.19BardackI don' t really know
19:46.34ckuethethe atmel/ublox receiver is good.
19:46.42ckuethebetter than sirf
19:46.50Bardackthen it will be ok indoor ...
19:47.03cjb_iewithout playing with it, it's hard to say, but i have about six different GPSes, two of them sirf3, and only one of them works indoors for me.
19:47.14Bardackmaybe not on a under-parking but in most cases yes , no?
19:47.53Bardackat the moment, is there some small GPS application working on openmoko?
19:48.02Bardackjust to test if the receiption is ok or not
19:48.06*** part/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125)
19:48.25dashavoowow, shows how little I know about gps... I always assumed it would work indoors
19:48.37torporits a good idea bardack
19:48.48dashavooone problem!
19:48.49torporall of the phone/gps functions should just be plunked into a little python lib ..
19:48.53dashavooand its a big one
19:48.55dashavoo:P
19:49.08Bardackyeah I think so, because I need 3 days to remember that my phone is in the car of my father :)
19:49.13dashavooif you have lost your phone, how do you send an SMS ;)
19:49.13torporthen you can jst describe the behaviour, and load the .py when you want that behaviour ..
19:49.14dashavoo?
19:49.30torporfrom a friendly phone of course
19:49.31abraxa__Bardack: The GPS driver isn't public yet, unfortunately
19:49.37torporwhich you can incidentally have already shared a key with ..
19:49.44Bardack? abraxa__ ?
19:49.55Bardackthen at the moment no gps application on openmoko , right?
19:49.58torporits a load of crap about gps and gsm
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19:50.05abraxa__Bardack: Correct.
19:50.08torporgsm is slowly being fixed
19:50.12Bardackokay
19:50.14torporgps will probably suffer the same fate.
19:50.37Bardackrahhh ... I really CAN'T wait for the mass market version .... :| I want my Neo :)
19:50.39LarsBKgps app: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA
19:50.48*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)
19:51.18Bardackyeah that is that kind of application I spoke
19:51.30LarsBK;D
19:51.32*** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de)
19:51.34*** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de)
19:51.34BardackIf somebody has this application installed on his Neo, maybe test indoor will be a good idea
19:51.46Bardackif no ... my idea will not be good
19:51.50Bardackif yes ... maybe ;)
19:52.05abraxa__LarsBK: That's the newly-publicised agpsui2 btw
19:52.13torporyeah anyway, roll on the gta02's .. i want one.
19:52.26torporplease FIC just make about 10,000 of them and make it easy to get.
19:52.39torpori would love that frankly.
19:52.44torporopenmoko vending machines.
19:53.15cb22well, weirder things have been sold at vending machines in asia before...
19:53.19Bardackthen if in a few days, somebody can give me a feedback about my question, it will be good :)
19:53.31Bardackif not, I will wait for mine GTA02 ... in December :(
19:53.45LarsBKwhat about using wifi signal strength inside?
19:54.07dashavooBardack, assuming it isnt delayed again :P
19:54.22SpeedEvilBardack: the current one works OK indoors - in my house only if it's had a lock outdoors
19:54.33SpeedEvilBardack: however, GTA02 is a different hardware
19:54.39Bardackyeah
19:54.42torporBardack: i bet you in december your app will be very easy to write on nice hardware.
19:54.49Bardackfor the gps too?
19:54.53SpeedEvilyes
19:54.54Bardackgood good
19:54.57torporand as of today its very a little difficult to write, on limited hardware.
19:55.15Bardackrahhh I can't wait ...
19:55.20Bardack:)
19:55.25dashavoo"very a little"?
19:55.30LarsBKhaha
19:55.41torporkeep in mind that there are other platforms upon which openmoko runs, too, by the way ..
19:56.01Bardack?
19:56.03torporwhere is this app and how can i get it right away: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA
19:56.07torpor?
19:56.15torporBardack: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/
19:56.40Bardackemulator for openmoko?
19:56.51torporwhy bother with emulators?
19:57.06LarsBKanybody here that has a neo1973?
19:57.06torporemulators are for chumps who can't build a proper build environment.
19:57.14Bardackmmm
19:57.15torporLarsBK: me
19:57.24LarsBKoh, nice
19:57.54Bardackat the moment I don't have a Neo , then I don't have the OS. IS there a possibility to test in an other way? I don't think so...
19:58.13abraxa__Bardack: Xephyr/Xoo
19:58.28torporbardack: just write a nice gtk linux application, or python (with whatever GUI lib you want) and oila: OPENMOKO IS LINUX, DUMMY!
19:58.51torporopenmoko is like ubuntu pocketry.
19:59.04BardackIt s me or you re a quite agressive torpor? We are not on #debian here :)
19:59.28torporits not me, its not you, its my capslock.  i often use it.  but that doesn't mean i'm shouting
19:59.41torpor#define PROGRAMMER drunk();
20:00.06*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B14B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:01.14*** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@dialin-212-144-129-224.pools.arcor-ip.net)
20:01.24*** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-62-216-203-149.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
20:01.30Bardackgood I will try tomorrow
20:02.00abraxa__Bardack: Docs are a little sparse as of now, so feel free to return and ask questions.
20:02.18dashavoodoes/will openmoko ever work with libglade?
20:02.27*** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236)
20:03.11Bardackyeah okay ;)
20:03.26abraxa__dashavoo: Already does
20:03.54Bardackbut in January I will go working abroad (Germany) for one year. A lot of guys there are very motivated with OpenMoko. Maybe we can do a good project there :)
20:03.59dashavoowicked
20:04.09dashavoothat makes development alot easier :P
20:04.17dashavoomaybe a good idea will come to me at some point
20:04.53Bardack:)
20:05.46torporBardack: there are lots of german hackers on openmoko.
20:05.54Bardackyeah I know that
20:06.06torporbrits too
20:06.10torporare you german Bardack >?
20:06.20BardackI m from Belgium, but in january go to germany for one year :) :) , and drink a lot of beers
20:07.10LarsBKFor those who have a neo1973, how is openmoko to use?
20:07.57enjahovais there libcurl on OM?
20:08.03torporLarsBK: 'okay' at this point.  there is a big theme'ing stage coming, you can really feel that in the interface.
20:08.09dashavooenjahova, that has been answered already
20:08.15torpora lot of the functionality is there, but the interface sorta feels unattended to ..
20:08.22enjahovadashavoo, i missed that
20:08.27torporenjahova: yes.
20:08.30torporwget.
20:08.33torporeasy
20:08.41enjahovaword
20:08.42LarsBKok
20:08.44ozarkaLarsBK:  It's not a "usable" device in my opinion.
20:08.55*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219)
20:09.01dashavoo19:24 < woglinde> enjahova openembedded has libcurl
20:09.01dashavoo19:24 < woglinde> and so OM has it too
20:09.10torporits usable, but you will feel like you didn't open a phone you paid for, but more a phone you watched your friend build.
20:09.13torporthe thing is too new.
20:09.19enjahovaoh, i must've afked. thanks
20:09.41ozarkaYou certainly couldn't replace an existing phone with it.
20:09.58LarsBKBut when the software is "done" do you think it will be good enough to use as a everyday phone?
20:09.58torporthe point is though that the phone is changing rapidly.  if you get a phone today and you don't think the interface is usable, you can most definitely spend 2 evenings building your own theme, and sharing it, and fix the problem.
20:10.01ozarkaBattery life being the biggest issue.
20:10.09dashavooozarka, when GTA02 is released it will be able to take the place of an existing phone though, right?
20:10.13torporbattery life is an issue.
20:10.35LarsBKoh? Hwo long does it last?
20:10.36ozarkadashavoo: I'm just a consumer.  I don't know.
20:10.59ozarkaLess than 8 hours even if you do nothing.
20:11.04torpordashavoo: the point you must understand is that your absolute questions can only be answered with the general observation that while some things don't work, some things do, one of those things is: the platform is rapidly changing.  progress is made rapidly in the OM world.  you should feel a lot safer buying one (because it is open) than you would if it were closed.
20:11.34ozarkaI haven't noticed a problem with the 850 scandal, and I'm in the US.
20:11.51LarsBK850 scandal?
20:12.12torpormine works, i am not using it as a phone but as a gprs connected internet tablet that i can easily write code for, quite easily in fact that its my current favourite platform for writing code, and yes that means writing code *on* the device itself.
20:12.13ozarkaThere has to be a FAQ or wiki for this...
20:12.27abraxa__ozarka: Topic
20:12.27mmontourLarsBK: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates
20:12.44Bardackyeah let s look on the mailing list LarsBK for the 850 scandal :)
20:13.08dashavootorpor, I realise that, I just wanted to know whether or not it will be useable in the same way other phones are at time of release
20:13.18torpori have my neo hooked up to a wireless apple kb, and a fat python install on a SD card that does everything i need it to do, replacing a rather ginormous x86 box which is currently complaining about having nothing to do. ;)
20:13.34ozarkaThanks abraxa.  It's been a while since I looked at the topic.
20:13.49torpordashavoo: you can't predict these things yourself, based on what i'm telling you?  nobody knows the absolute answer; all we have is facts.  and its a fact openmoko is progressing rapidly.  
20:13.50ozarka(And I was just about to mention Android, too.  Glad I read that.)
20:14.15ozarkaI agree with topor.  It's really exciting to see how much has changed since I got my Neo in Aug
20:14.47torporman, i am having so much fun with the onboard pulseaudio, too.
20:15.15abraxa__torpor: Sarcasm or not? :)
20:15.17torporthe machine is not just a phone.  phone functionality is just one of the things you can do with a moko.  it will progress just like all other application-types have on linux, since neo is a full linux workstation.
20:15.23torporabraxa__: serious
20:15.36abraxa_Awesome
20:15.51torporas word-processing and web-browsing have progressed on linux, so too will cell calls and sms and gps ..
20:16.31LarsBKSo you would call it a linux gadget with some phone functionality?
20:16.57torporyup
20:17.00torporits a linux workstation.
20:17.05torporwith cell phone features.
20:17.20torpornothing stopping you from putting whatever linux software you can on it..
20:17.25torporits not just a phone.
20:17.28LarsBKsounds like fun :p
20:17.36torporit is fun!
20:17.36dashavooheh, I dont think thats the best way to sell it tbh, but maybe thats just me
20:17.51torpordashavoo: it may be just you.  ;)
20:18.34LarsBKAs long as I can ring people and send sms/email
20:19.02torporno promises, but i'm sure it'll work for that.
20:19.16torpor{eventually}
20:21.16Bardackthe tutorial for Xephyr+OpenMoko is not very clear
20:23.16guaquasome sort of chroot tutorial would be nice
20:23.25*** part/#openmoko Loverman- (n=ligeqvd@200.153.54.199)
20:24.42enjahovabardack what OS do you use?
20:25.05BardackAt the moment I just have the laptop of my girlfriend, on Ubuntu 7.10
20:25.25Bardackthen I m doing the 'make setup'
20:25.37dashavooyour girlfriend runs linux... why arent there more women like that near me?
20:25.42BardackAnd waiting for download
20:25.45Bardackhahahaha
20:25.54Bardackbecause I m with her for 7 years now :)
20:26.04dashavoolol
20:26.18Bardackand if she continues to use Windows, I will divorce ^^
20:26.36Bardackit is simple like 1+1 = 2 :)
20:26.45*** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com)
20:27.03enjahovathese are the steps i followed, maybe its clearer:
20:27.04enjahovahttp://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfjpf673_307j4nqp
20:27.15BardackI'll look just now
20:27.22abraxa_Bardack: Lucky you. My g/f is about to switch from WinXP to OSX. Just as bad imo.
20:27.33Bardackahaha
20:27.35anrpjust as bad??
20:27.38Bardackno choice at home :)
20:27.42Bardackgood idea is:
20:27.43buzhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5305482907.html i wished i could get that in switzerland
20:27.46enjahovai use both 7.10 and os x... :P
20:27.48buzvery nice deal for itx hardware
20:27.51Bardackwaiting for a big crash of her Windows
20:28.14Bardackand say : I don't know nothing on Windows, I could help you if you will use Linux
20:28.20buzoh its microatx, a still nice ;)
20:28.36abraxa_anrp: Yes, just as bad because I can't (and don't want to) administrate OSX. Ergo: I can't help with problems and I know no one who can. Learning OSX just for that? Screw it.
20:30.59*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)
20:31.51anrp... ok, then
20:32.07dashavooBardack, where are you from?
20:32.16BardackBelgium - Waterloo
20:32.24dashavoohmm... not quite
20:32.34dashavooI suddenly realised I was imagining an accent whenever I read your messages
20:32.36Bardack?
20:32.44dashavooI was hoping it would match where you came from, lol
20:32.50Bardackahaha
20:32.52*** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@ip5457b8f8.direct-adsl.nl)
20:32.53Bardackwhat was the accent?
20:33.30enjahovaabraxa_: os x doesn't have problems ;P thats the beauty
20:33.31enjahovalol
20:34.00dashavoonot really sure, it was kind of a cross between german and eastern european
20:34.17dashavooanyway, im going to go and eat now, bbl
20:34.18abraxa_enjahova: As nice as it would be, I know that's not true - I worked with OSX on G4s often enough
20:34.37Bardackyep see you dashavoo
20:34.59enjahovaabraxa_, i'm just teasing :)
20:35.20enjahovaBardack, speak french or flemish? or both?
20:35.30Bardackfrench
20:35.36Bardackand a little bit of flamish
20:35.39Bardackbut I m not good :)
20:35.56Bardackand with the big problem in Belgium today, it will maybe not interessting to improve my flemish :)
20:36.02abraxa_enjahova: Ah okay - I made my experience with Apple fanboys also, so I'm a little sensitive towards such statements ;)
20:37.20enjahovabardack, well, at least your going to germany :)
20:37.39Bardackyep
20:37.53Bardackfor improve my english :)
20:38.01Bardackand a quite german
20:38.32Bardacklalala ... waiting for december to buy my GTA02 ....
20:38.35*** join/#openmoko shred (n=shred@p5491ACDB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:38.47abraxa_ScaredyCat: You around still?
20:38.49Bardackmake setup is done, cool
20:40.53shredhi: when i run "make build-package-myhelloworld" as in the example in the wiki i get the error "ERROR: No providers of build target myhelloworld (for [])
20:40.53shredmake: *** [build-package-myhelloworld] Fehler 1
20:40.53shred" What does that mean?
20:41.19*** join/#openmoko Maescool (n=maescool@maescool.be)
20:41.59Maescoolhello :)
20:42.26Bardackmake setup finish but I don't find the : rootfs folder ...
20:42.42abraxa_shred: It means that OE doesn't see a myhelloworld.bb recipe
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20:43.25Bardackif somebody has an idea
20:43.34shredbut i have one, as described
20:43.58flexdOne thing i was wondering
20:44.12flexdit's possible to run the latest OE image on the qemu on xp right?
20:44.16flexdJust replace the image files?
20:44.28flexd(and could someone link the latest and greatest please ^^)
20:44.57enjahovaBardack, why do you need rootfs folder?
20:44.59abraxa_shred: Where did you put it?
20:45.19enjahovaBardack, you should change the local.conf which you can find at build/conf/local.conf from wherever you did make setup
20:45.45*** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be)
20:45.59BardackI finish the make setup and in the tutorial they speak about the folder build/tmp/rootfs , copy to mokobox
20:46.32Bardackthe goal is to run openmoko on Xephyr, not on a Neo
20:46.46shredabraxa: mokodev/local/packages/myhelloworld/myhelloworld.bb
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20:47.20abraxa_shred: Using an overlay? I'm not sure that's currently supported - however I didn't test so I'm not sure.
20:47.25enjahovaBardack, you still want to make a copy of it
20:47.33Bardack?
20:47.41BardackI want to test openmoko without a Neo
20:47.45enjahovayou mean build/tmp/rootfs isnt there
20:47.50Bardackyeah
20:47.57shredabraxa: yes using overlay
20:47.57BardackAnd in the tutorial they said that I need that
20:47.58ScaredyCatabraxa_: ya
20:48.02enjahovadid you do make openmoko-devel-image?
20:48.18BardackI ve done the make setup, then I modify the local.conf
20:48.19Bardackthen ...
20:48.21Bardackno
20:48.28enjahovathats important :)
20:48.34enjahovaits what actually builds it
20:48.52CMBardack: Btw, going to germany to improve your english?!? Hehe...
20:48.52Bardackmmm
20:48.53abraxa_ScaredyCat: I noticed openmoko-agpsui2 is written with GTA02 in mind so I made a patch to make it work with GTA01 - was wondering if I could/should send you patch+recipe
20:48.54enjahovadid you remove uboot-openmoko from the Makefile?
20:49.02Bardackyep , Long story CM :)
20:49.09Bardackno enjahova
20:49.13Bardackjust take the makeFile
20:49.15CMNever mind, just found it funny
20:49.15Bardackmake setup
20:49.20Bardackmodify the local.conf
20:49.22Bardackbloked
20:49.24ScaredyCatyeah, please do.. :D
20:49.38enjahovaBardack, did you see the link i sent you? i followed those steps, just pulled them from the guide after some trial and error
20:49.59BardackI read the official , I will read your now ok
20:49.59enjahovaBardack, after you remove uboot-openmoko from the Makefile, you do make openmoko-devel-image
20:50.11enjahovauboot didn't build for me on x86
20:50.14Bardackand not make setup
20:50.22enjahovano, make setup comes first
20:50.30enjahovathen you modify local.conf like you're supposed to
20:50.40enjahovathen you do make openmoko-devel-image
20:50.56Bardackok I continue
20:51.56*** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@88-149-141-64.dynamic.ngi.it)
20:52.45dashavoomake openmoko-devel-image takes a veeerrrryyy long time, lol
20:52.52shredabraxa_: as described in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course ..... so it should work for some
20:52.55Bardackok I need to remove the references to uboot-openmoko
20:53.01Ghiottonehi all
20:53.28Bardackall the line ? bitbake -c fetch openmoko-devel-image uboot-openmoko?
20:53.32Bardackor just uboot-openmoko?
20:53.38abraxa_shred: I suppose... unfortunately I can't check it out atm :(
20:53.42enjahovajust the uboot-openmoko
20:53.46Bardackkay
20:55.00Bardackmmm lot of error on the make ...
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20:57.28Bardackerrors like theses: http://pastebin.com/m526a2db0
20:57.56flexd#
20:57.59flexdsqlite3.OperationalError: attempt to write a readonly database'1~3~
20:58.06Bardackyeah
20:58.12flexdPoints to whoever figures out what to do with your database.
20:58.24BardackI don't create any database
20:58.45enjahovathats weird
20:59.26Bardackrahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
20:59.32BardackI done the make setup in root
20:59.44Bardacknoobie ...
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21:01.23flexdBardack: i'm starting to setup my build evn now, if you still have problems
21:01.38flexdGonna try building the latest stuff for using in the qemu :D
21:02.36Bardackyep
21:02.36enjahovaBardack, i take it you installed all the necessary stuff right?
21:02.55BardackI think that it is ok now
21:03.01enjahovaah
21:03.08Bardackyep
21:03.12BardackI do the make setup in root
21:03.23Bardackthen the sqlite database was owned by root ...
21:03.32*** join/#openmoko PITABoy (i=na@adsl-221-110-242.rmo.bellsouth.net)
21:03.37Bardackand we can't make openmoko-dev-... using root
21:03.40Bardackthen no access ::)
21:03.51enjahovaoh
21:03.52enjahovahehe
21:03.59BardackI m a noobie lalala :)
21:04.04BardackI m tired ... ^^
21:04.16*** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-62-216-203-149.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
21:04.36enjahovaluckily you can sleep while it builds for hours
21:04.54Bardackmake openmoko-devel takes long time? :)
21:05.06enjahovayep
21:05.08Bardackand the laptop is veryyyyyyyyyyy old :)
21:05.15BardackP3 750 I think :)
21:05.26SpeedEvilBardack: come back next week
21:05.26Bardackfor days then ;)
21:05.29mmontourBardack: put away your stopwatch, grab a calendar...
21:05.31BardackLOOOOOOOL
21:05.34Bardackahahah
21:05.38Bardackokay, thank you guys :)
21:05.58abraxa_ScaredyCat: http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/openmoko-agpsui2_svn.bb has been updated
21:06.42abraxa_ScaredyCat: http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/agpsui2_gta01.patch needs to be put into a files/ directory where the .bb is located
21:06.51*** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr)
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21:07.40hrw|gonehttp://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/07/cpu-cooler-upgrade/
21:07.46abraxa_If someone were then to use Sharogan's wrapper it would run out-of-the-box... "were", of course.
21:08.43xzcvczxabraxa_: got any screenshots?
21:09.17abraxa_xzcvczx: It's pretty much the same as http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA
21:09.28xzcvczx:o
21:09.35xzcvczxnice
21:09.56abraxa_Indeed :)
21:10.25xzcvczxabraxa_: i have just been using gpsd logging most the stuff lately
21:11.04xzcvczxabraxa_: also is there in ipkg of it?
21:11.04abraxa_That's why I'm handing it to ScaredyCat ;)
21:11.24abraxa_hehe
21:11.32ScaredyCatjust uploading it now
21:12.14*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
21:12.55Bardackand after in xephyr, I will have a full access to openmoko?
21:12.59Bardacksound and so on?
21:13.10Bardackor just could have a small look to openmoko?
21:14.01flexdhmm?
21:14.06xzcvczxabraxa_: has the gps stuff been sussed out now?
21:14.36abraxa_Bardack: depends on your host system - if you have PulseAudio on your host you should be able to use the media player; nothing else produces sound anyway
21:15.04Bardackyep okay
21:15.12abraxa_xzcvczx: Nope, not... yet... =\
21:15.15BardackI will test that tomorrow after the make :)
21:15.29Bardackabout a complete gps application for openmoko
21:15.41Bardackdo yu have already some idea for the maps?
21:15.45Bardackusing Google Maps?
21:15.48Bardackor I don't know
21:16.02*** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:16.14abraxa_There's pretty much only OSM for now
21:16.21abraxa_Anything else would be illegal later on
21:16.27Bardack?
21:16.32Bardacknot sure that I understand you
21:16.34abraxa_openstreetmap.org
21:16.34xzcvczxabraxa_: oh, ok its just that gllin.cpp is copyright global locate so assumed it would be actually released
21:16.45Bardackok I look
21:17.22Bardackoh ok
21:17.34Bardackit is the only one solution at the moment ? :s
21:17.46ScaredyCatcome and get it :)
21:18.13abraxa_Bardack: Pretty much - private entities (= we) can use other stuff as well but FIC won't be able to ship such things with their devices
21:18.23abraxa_lol thanks, ScaredyCat
21:18.32Bardackmmm
21:18.35Bardacknot good
21:18.50Bardackthen it will be difficult to use Neo like a gps
21:19.13*** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-6fd2bce5d385a9f2)
21:19.44SpeedEvilMaps are a problem.
21:19.55SpeedEvilMost of the maps you think of as free - google - aren't.
21:20.02Bardackargh
21:20.08Bardackit s a big problem yes :s
21:20.11SpeedEvilThey have strict terms and conditions, which for example say that you can't cache the tiles.
21:20.19enjahovaBardack, check projects.openmoko.org I just joined one for gps-navigator
21:20.38BardackYeah me too I send my proposal to develop client application in Java
21:20.42SpeedEvilTehy have to do this as the map providers would charge _obscene_ amounts for users able to download maps themselves.
21:20.47Bardackbut the client, server, daemon is not a problem
21:20.52Bardackthe problem are the maps ...
21:20.54enjahovastill in planning phase, but if your interested in mapping/navigation it would be a good place to be involved :)
21:21.09BardackYeah I think so
21:21.14SpeedEvilOSM will work OK in a couple of months in the USA and NL
21:21.35SpeedEvilenjahova: read all in teh wiki in category:GPS?
21:21.37Bardack100%?
21:21.50*** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@194.125.95.30)
21:22.10enjahovaSpeedEvil, no, maybe i should
21:22.11SpeedEvilBardack: the US government has road data availabl,e, which is being imported. NL data has been donated byu a map company
21:22.20Bardackgood
21:23.55*** part/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@ip5457b8f8.direct-adsl.nl)
21:24.09Bardackok make openmoko-devel-image launched :)
21:24.14enjahovaSpeedEvil, I like the idea of the openstreetmap client, but it would make sense to make a more general WMS client, no?
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21:24.45Kragnerac:)
21:24.50SpeedEvilIt would possibly make sense to be able to download tiles, yes.
21:25.00flexdSpeedEvil: You could atleast be able to connect your neo to a laptop and get the gps with maps that way?
21:25.03SpeedEvilHowever, vector maps are so enormously more compressed and routable, ...
21:25.56Bardackpfff not that cool :(
21:26.01nelsonbut slower to render.
21:26.01flexdi know
21:26.05Bardacki wasn't think about the maps ...
21:26.07flexdbut it's atleast something
21:26.20Bardackand use tomtom maps with another application is illegal
21:26.22Bardackpfff :(
21:26.37xzcvczxBardack: its only illegal if you get caught :P
21:26.37enjahovaSpeedEvil, I see, i need to do some more reading then
21:26.42enjahovaroadmap looks interesting
21:26.55Bardackyeah, but no xz
21:26.56Bardack<PROTECTED>
21:26.57xzcvczxlol
21:27.44flexdBardack: What nobody knows nobody can bust you for :D
21:28.09Bardackhehe
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21:31.33CMGhiottone: Hmm.. I think you should update the latest url you added to your search engine. It's friggin 3147 chars long!
21:32.14xzcvczxflexd: but the man upstairs knows everything and will put a cap in yo ass at judgement day
21:32.19xzcvczx:P
21:32.22Bardacksleep time
21:32.29Bardacksee you
21:32.52flexdxzcvczx: the only man upstairs i believe in is my dad (which is upstairs), and he wants a neo himself so i honestly dont think he'l care :p
21:34.11xzcvczxflexd: lol, i dont believe in a man upstairs either just thought i would add that for arguments sake
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21:34.22GhiottoneCM ehm it is a test to see if I'm able to get the bug list
21:34.48CMGhiottone: Ok. I just added the regular om and oe bugzilla..
21:34.53ScaredyCatseatch engine?
21:34.55ScaredyCatsearch
21:35.10CMGhiottone: Remove if you want, but it's very convenient to search from google instead
21:35.18CMScaredyCat: http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=018430699993342716089%3Aszsaurhronw
21:35.52ScaredyCatahh ok,
21:36.00ScaredyCatI have my own...
21:36.07ScaredyCatwith a ff plugin :)
21:36.15enjahovaSpeedEvil, i don't see anything about getting vector data from OSM
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21:37.23SpeedEvilanj: you can download the original planet file.
21:37.31SpeedEvilAt the moment, it's a gigabyteish bz2
21:37.41SpeedEvilwhich expands to some 30G of XML
21:37.48GhiottoneCM removed. but still bug searches don't work :/
21:37.53xzcvczxSpeedEvil: :O
21:37.54ScaredyCat1.2G
21:37.58CMGhiottone: Hmm.. Maybe it takes a while
21:38.07SpeedEvilhowever, properly stored in a binary format, it's about the same size as the bz2, maybe smaller
21:38.12GhiottoneCM I added that url for a test, but even after a few days it did not work
21:38.31CMGhiottone: Ah, no, I think it filters away the cgi's
21:38.34SpeedEvilAnd much of that data is not needed in a map.
21:38.39GhiottoneCM it is much faster when accessed directly from google. damn them!
21:38.55GhiottoneCM what do you mean
21:39.14*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
21:39.21CMGhiottone: I mean that they don't index those long cgi urls, but I'm not sure
21:39.30CMRemember I had the same problem with bugs.gentoo.org
21:40.23*** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@psnet.cc)
21:41.01GhiottoneCM I see. I think you're right. I hoped that google would have indexed the site if specified directly
21:41.16enjahovaSpeedEvil, I just found some documentation on OSM Protocol
21:41.35SpeedEvilanj: the binary format isn't really implemented much
21:41.41SpeedEvilwhich'd need to be.
21:45.27enjahovahmm, are you talking about offline browsing?
21:46.00enjahovai guess that would make a lot of sense... haha
21:46.24enjahovai wonder how big it would be in something like sqlite
21:46.43SpeedEvilenjahova: yes
21:46.52SpeedEvilenjahova: f'n huge
21:47.05enjahovaah..
21:47.30SpeedEvilYou absolutely do not want to put this into a standard database. But a properly designed storage/access format.
21:47.50enjahovaso ideally, you would have offline binary stored section of OSM for where you are, then maybe sync with some convenient program that could load a differnent area?
21:48.11SpeedEvilFor example,
21:48.12SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
21:48.12SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
21:48.13SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
21:48.19enjahovayeah jesus
21:48.22SpeedEvilis the current format of one node in the uncompresse format
21:48.57SpeedEvilyou can compress the lat/lon down to 32 bit, the node id to 32 bit, and the rest of the stuff to a few flags
21:49.18enjahovayeah
21:49.26SpeedEvilSo that goes down to maybe 14 bytes, 12 if you lose the timestamp.
21:49.51enjahovamobile devices are somethin else hehe
21:50.01SpeedEvilAnd even less if you do other things.
21:50.36SpeedEvilFor example, you don't need to support roads with nodes spaced by 100km
21:50.45SpeedEvilso you can knock off bits there.
21:51.03enjahovaspaced over? why 100km?
21:52.21SpeedEvilYou want to - in an optimal protocol maybe store the start and the end positions in a road as 32 bit lat/lon.
21:52.45enjahovaah
21:52.51SpeedEvilBut you don't need to store 32 bit lat/lon for each.
21:52.59enjahovaso you can drop precision from the lat/lon
21:53.09SpeedEviljust 16 or 24 bit per.
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22:21.37ScaredyCatflexd: you are going to watch all 12 hours of it?
22:22.03Stephmwshhhh
22:22.07ScaredyCat:P
22:23.18abraxa_Didn't you say you were 30+? ;)
22:24.06ozarkaWhat's a Kinder egg?
22:24.49ScaredyCatssh h I'm concentrating ;)
22:24.50Stephmw25+ is when Kinder Eggs become fun
22:25.32abraxa_lol
22:26.54abraxa_ozarka: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_Surprise
22:27.04ScaredyCathttp://www.kindersurprise.com/
22:27.07ScaredyCatozarka:
22:27.35ozarkaFood with plastic inside?
22:27.44ScaredyCatyes
22:27.52*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)
22:27.55ScaredyCatinside the egg is an egg with a toy
22:28.07ScaredyCatthe  toy is in pieces
22:28.11ScaredyCatyou build it...
22:28.14flexdScaredyCat: IT TAKES 12 HOURS!?=!?
22:28.40flexd:(
22:29.28ScaredyCatabraxa_: food + toys == fun @ whatever age
22:29.43ScaredyCatthe only thing that changes is the price of the toys
22:29.58abraxa_lol...
22:30.00ozarkaflexd: But it only seems like 10 or 11 while it's happening.
22:30.12ozarkaDon't kids choke on the plastic inside?
22:30.15*** join/#openmoko tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines)
22:30.39ozarkaOr is it just America where kids try to kill themselves with small plastic things?
22:30.41SpeedEvilOnly the stupid ones.
22:30.46abraxa_ScaredyCat: I'm almost tempted to bring my girlfriend into the equation but I guess I shouldn't to keep it innocent ;)
22:30.50flexdwhy on earth would it take 12hours?
22:31.01flexdI thought i read something about it taking a few minutes >_>
22:31.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 998 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
22:31.01cdbot2* * Keyboard autorepeat is too twitchy
22:31.02cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=998
22:31.21ScaredyCat"Small parts might be swallowed or inhaled"
22:31.25abraxa_flexd: You sure it didn't say a few days?
22:31.58ScaredyCatabraxa_: if your girlfrined needs toys....
22:32.05ScaredyCatgirlfrined...
22:32.06ScaredyCat:P
22:32.10ScaredyCatfeck
22:32.12abraxa_lol
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22:32.18StephmwSpeedEvil: clearly not the stupid ones, otherwise darwin would have taken them out of the gene pool
22:32.31StephmwScaredyCat: oi, his gf is cute! :)
22:33.04ScaredyCatbut not innocent.. ;)
22:33.05WritchieStephmw: no - their parents sue, make a bundle, and have lots more dumb kids
22:33.05Maescoollol
22:33.25StephmwWritchie: fair point
22:33.27ScaredyCatlol at that bug
22:33.28abraxa_ScaredyCat: That was implied ;)
22:34.17ScaredyCat", their popularity has spread beyond their intended market, and they have become a minor cult phenomenon among discerning adults."
22:34.50ScaredyCatyeah, but when wikipedia says it is sounds like an excuse.
22:35.39*** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)
22:36.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 999 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
22:36.02cdbot2* * On-screen keyboard font has no arrows
22:36.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=999
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22:36.35Maescooli was wondering.. my phone doesn't have the look like it's on the website.. do i need to install a special matchbox theme or somthing?
22:37.00cdbot2* * OM Bug 1000 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net
22:37.01cdbot2* * Terminal starts in root, regardless of
22:37.02cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1000
22:37.16ozarkaMaescool: If you're looking at openmoko.com, someone needs to install a theme on the web site.
22:37.19abraxa_Maescool: The look you see on the official page is outdated (aka 2007.1)
22:37.37Maescoolok :)
22:37.48rasterthat wasnt even a real look
22:37.54rasterit was a mockup done by an artist
22:38.08abraxa_raster!
22:38.12abraxa_Don't sneak up on us like that
22:38.19rasterMUHAHAHAHAHA
22:38.28Maescooloh k :)
22:38.37Maescoolso the version i just installed is the new look?
22:39.00MaescoolOpenMoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20071107-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 < i just installed
22:39.45abraxa_raster: I start to believe Mr. Haitzler's plan at OpenMoko, Inc. is no less than to take over Mr. Moss-Pultz' seat. ;)
22:41.19*** join/#openmoko [PI]Sami (n=sami@a9b.pirttimaki.jyu.fi)
22:43.08abraxa_Nighty night
22:43.17rasterabraxa_: :-P
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22:43.53Ghiottonenite ScaredyCat
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