| 00:04.09 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAC14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:06.18 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 00:10.04 | *** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 00:17.41 | CM | xzcvczx: Nice, what is it? |
| 00:18.27 | CM | ewon: Cool, how does it feel to be there? |
| 00:18.58 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-68-26.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.25 | ewon | CM: warm :) |
| 00:19.39 | CM | 7 degrees C, rain here.. |
| 00:19.58 | CM | Also 1:19 am, and I'm supposed to go to work in 5h |
| 00:20.12 | CM | Good night :) |
| 00:20.53 | ewon | bye now |
| 00:21.17 | Ghiottone | nite CM |
| 00:21.28 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAC14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:21.34 | kristian-m | night |
| 00:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-72-160.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 00:24.26 | *** part/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@adsl-75-26-148-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:28.53 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 00:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko naikan (i=ai@85-158-213-129.powered-by.benesol.be) |
| 00:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 00:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 00:36.19 | *** join/#openmoko burt0n (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-5-139.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:36.55 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@pool-72-77-31-63.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:38.59 | *** join/#openmoko Jiten_ (n=blight@a88-112-184-11.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:39.50 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=swel024@ip-58-28-132-112.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:39.55 | *** join/#openmoko cjb_ie (i=cjb@bob.nonado.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:39.56 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) |
| 00:40.01 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (i=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair_ (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko gnu (n=gnu@quiet.toad.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko rtyler (i=tyler@morningsun.geekisp.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko sladen (i=paul@starsky.19inch.net) |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko Philippe (n=fille@a91-153-17-113.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko Jiten (n=blight@a88-112-184-11.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=swel024@gentoo/user/xzcvczx) |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@s55917044.adsl.wanadoo.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko konqui[tm] (i=freenode@deinbnc.go4bnc.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko ruxpin (n=mikael@Catalyst-53.pspt.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko Mek_ (n=marijn@s55917044.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 00:41.02 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx_ (n=swel024@ip-58-28-132-112.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 00:41.03 | *** join/#openmoko Philippe_ (n=fille@a91-153-17-113.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:41.12 | *** join/#openmoko sladen_ (i=paul@starsky.19inch.net) |
| 00:47.45 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@office.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 00:48.00 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 00:50.48 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 00:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko summatus_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 00:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 01:05.41 | *** join/#openmoko robi (n=boss@218-214-60-232.people.net.au) |
| 01:14.41 | *** join/#openmoko PirateHead (n=chatzill@137.28.242.116) |
| 01:14.44 | PirateHead | ANDROID |
| 01:17.25 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@c-71-63-180-237.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:21.46 | ewon | PARANOID |
| 01:22.09 | Mek | MARVIN |
| 01:24.49 | PirateHead | no, Android. How do you guys react? |
| 01:27.11 | *** join/#openmoko mib_force (i=mib_forc@2001:1638:17a5:0:0:0:0:20) |
| 01:27.23 | linux_galore | Interesting new WiFi chipset for mobile devices from Atheros http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5024332766.html |
| 01:28.21 | linux_galore | ?? Android isnt that the new mobile Google platform |
| 01:30.05 | *** join/#openmoko nasum (n=nasum@c-67-180-178-33.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:31.04 | linux_galore | ah, the brain cells are getting old, Android is a software company Google just purchased to assist with their mobile platform http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm |
| 01:31.55 | Writchie | they purchased it 2 years ago! |
| 01:32.12 | Writchie | they relase their sdk preview on Monday |
| 01:32.19 | PirateHead | Android is a complete mobile smartphone software stack, and it's Apache licensed. |
| 01:32.44 | PirateHead | Can we use Apache code, or is this closed to us? |
| 01:33.23 | linux_galore | PirateHead: dare say it depends on the license GPL3 is Apache license friendly |
| 01:33.53 | PirateHead | Android uses the Apache 2 license, so hopefully they will be compatible. |
| 01:34.09 | linux_galore | PirateHead: let me put it this way, you can put apache on the OM |
| 01:34.24 | PirateHead | You mean on the Neo? |
| 01:34.29 | linux_galore | yes |
| 01:35.38 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1088826388.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:35.43 | linux_galore | PirateHead: best to think of the NEO as a mobile Linux PC |
| 01:35.58 | PirateHead | No, best to think of it as a mobile phone. |
| 01:36.00 | PirateHead | It is clearly not a PC. |
| 01:36.17 | linux_galore | well not in the X86 sense yes |
| 01:37.20 | linux_galore | You cant exectly call the NEO a mobile phone either because it isnt just a phone |
| 01:37.36 | SpeedEvil | It's a cookbook! |
| 01:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 01:40.59 | zilt | hmm... no 850Mhz for gta01 AND gta02 ! |
| 01:41.17 | linux_galore | Nokia calls their mobile a mobile media computer |
| 01:41.19 | zilt | that kind of screws me a little bit |
| 01:41.34 | netx | a mobile phone nowadays is nothing more than a PC with a very small display and a GSM or CDMA modem |
| 01:42.01 | linux_galore | zilt: alway wait for the GTA03 |
| 01:42.14 | PirateHead | I'm on hold for the GTA05.l |
| 01:42.19 | linux_galore | heh |
| 01:42.25 | Writchie | zilt: where did you see that? |
| 01:42.43 | zilt | linux_galore: sure - but mickey|zzZZzz has already said not to expect it before end of 2008 - maybe 2009 |
| 01:42.54 | linux_galore | problem is when you go over 400mhz you start hitting battery problem ie 2400MAH brock is needed |
| 01:43.03 | zilt | Writchie: mailling list - Michael Shiloh update |
| 01:43.55 | linux_galore | zilt: by 2009 it will be too late mobiles are adapting so fast now its not funny |
| 01:44.44 | linux_galore | LG are releasing 6 models in the next 1/4 alone |
| 01:44.56 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@32.146.190.201) |
| 01:45.05 | Writchie | advertising a quad-band that is in fact a tri-band is called fraud in the U.S. |
| 01:45.15 | zilt | linux_galore: yup. I can't believe that gta02 won't have it either - that seems like a major bug to me |
| 01:45.43 | Writchie | much of the Amercas is 850 only |
| 01:46.33 | zilt | Yup - I'm in a 850 only zone - alot of the towers around me are 850 only as well :( |
| 01:46.43 | linux_galore | Writchie: lucky your not here in Australia we have a hybrid CDMA850/GSM nightmare |
| 01:46.51 | Writchie | an Americas tri-band 850/1800/1900 would be acceptable |
| 01:47.05 | Writchie | variant that is |
| 01:47.50 | Writchie | if 850 is not supported the neo is next to useless in U.S. |
| 01:47.56 | linux_galore | Good example Samung have a A801 model thats GSM 1800/1900/CDMA 850 (850 is data) |
| 01:48.30 | Writchie | t-mobile is 1900 but much of it's roaming is at 850 |
| 01:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z512d.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:48.46 | zilt | From the mail list - official confirmation of no 850: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-November/011394.html |
| 01:48.48 | Writchie | you can't even make calls in some airports without 850 |
| 01:48.52 | linux_galore | dont worry WiMAX will kill all this UTMS rubbish |
| 01:49.08 | linux_galore | UMTS* |
| 01:49.11 | Writchie | WiMAX is still-born as a phone replacement |
| 01:49.17 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=Administ@60-249-22-235.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 01:49.36 | linux_galore | Writchie: Wimax will be for data not voice I dare say |
| 01:49.37 | Writchie | HSDPA will kick its ass |
| 01:50.00 | Tronic | How about @450? I never got where that fits. |
| 01:50.03 | SpeedEvil | No reason you can'd do VOIPOWIMAX |
| 01:50.05 | linux_galore | Writchie: we have HSDPA here in Australia its not that good unless you use CDMA for the RF |
| 01:50.39 | Writchie | of course, WCDMA |
| 01:50.56 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: we have a pre WiMAX network already working here in Australia, latency is too slow for voice |
| 01:51.32 | linux_galore | its provided by a company called Unwired www.unwired.com.au |
| 01:52.10 | linux_galore | s/slow/high |
| 01:52.44 | linux_galore | VoIP on WCDMA is also rubbish, Ive tried it |
| 01:52.53 | u_l-lap | Writchie: next to useless! |
| 01:52.57 | u_l-lap | Writchie: t-mo is still 1900 only |
| 01:53.13 | linux_galore | data speeds are very good though |
| 01:53.14 | Writchie | what good is a phone you can't roam with |
| 01:53.15 | u_l-lap | I roam continously since I moved to NC and it is also 1900 only here |
| 01:53.23 | u_l-lap | just don't go to the midwest it's not like there is anything there ;-) |
| 01:54.01 | Writchie | u_l-lap: some parts of NC are 850 only IIRC |
| 01:54.13 | u_l-lap | none in the populated parts |
| 01:54.17 | u_l-lap | I biked from raleigh to greensboro and had service the entire way |
| 01:54.27 | Writchie | recently my phone was emergency only and my sons quad-band worked fine |
| 01:54.38 | linux_galore | just got a another new sample Nokia phone to play with, N95-8G, heavier then the last model but the all black look makes people drool |
| 01:54.44 | u_l-lap | also along the entire train route, in all of chapel hill except for in a few valleys, and throughout the entire triangle |
| 01:54.47 | u_l-lap | i.e. where everyone lives |
| 01:55.58 | zilt | u_l-lap: great - lack of 850 doesn't affect you. I live Canada's 4th largest city and alot of it is 850 |
| 01:56.29 | u_l-lap | lame |
| 01:56.45 | u_l-lap | why did anyone rollout 850 anyway? 1900 has been there longer hasn't it? |
| 01:56.48 | linux_galore | 850 is reserved for UMTS data here in Australia |
| 01:56.50 | u_l-lap | "let's be nonstandard" |
| 01:57.01 | Writchie | the tower spacing is designed for 850 |
| 01:57.27 | Writchie | you need 4 times as many towers for 1900 for equivalent coverage |
| 01:57.41 | Writchie | even then 1900 has more trouble penetrating buildings |
| 01:57.51 | zilt | u_l-lap: blame Rogers.. I dunno why .. (hmm.. it might be 5th largest - haven't checked lately :) ) |
| 01:58.15 | linux_galore | Bloody Europe and their silly GSM standards |
| 02:00.31 | linux_galore | ITS I noticed have assigned WiMAX as a 3G product, i can imagine the sales person selling it, Sales Drone " Yes this phone suportsWiMAX" Customer "So the phone is 4G ?" Sales Drone "No it's 3G" Customer "But my old phone is 3G" Sales Drone ((( HEAD EXPLODES))) |
| 02:01.09 | Writchie | No its 3.75G |
| 02:01.19 | Writchie | minus 1.5 |
| 02:02.13 | linux_galore | In Japan they are just calling it 4G last i looked |
| 02:03.01 | Writchie | 4G generally means unified IP transport network for all services IIRC |
| 02:03.03 | linux_galore | Writchie: then you have the different speeds for WiMAX lol |
| 02:04.01 | linux_galore | Writchie: well the japanese are talking voice (VoIP) and data over WiMAX |
| 02:04.41 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 02:05.06 | linux_galore | so it will be a battle between WCDMA and WiMAX with GSM becoming more and more lame for data |
| 02:05.10 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 02:06.19 | linux_galore | next few years should be fun and games as the Telco's spin the bottle on those technologies |
| 02:06.31 | Writchie | the primary problems are how to smoothly migrate your customer base to the new services. |
| 02:07.34 | linux_galore | anyway I have to mail some stuff out |
| 02:07.38 | linux_galore | bbl |
| 02:11.27 | zilt | so... is it fraud? They've been advertising the gta01 as a quad band for 5 months or so, and only know they discover the phone they built is really a tri-band phone? |
| 02:11.52 | zilt | s/know/now/ |
| 02:12.58 | JohnMahowald | I doubt someone is profiting off the lack of 4 bands. |
| 02:13.52 | Writchie | well in the case of the U.S. you lost the ability to support 65% - 70% of current GSM subscribers |
| 02:14.00 | SpeedEvil | It becomes fraud - or at least false advertising when they find out that it can't do 4 bands. |
| 02:14.32 | SpeedEvil | ajmitch: It does give a list of hardware specs when you go to purchase it. |
| 02:15.03 | ajmitch | SpeedEvil: well we know that the hardware does support it, the firmware doesn't |
| 02:15.12 | ajmitch | but with no current option of upgrading firmware |
| 02:15.12 | Writchie | Even in Chinese si is not san |
| 02:15.23 | SpeedEvil | ajmitch: for a substantial fraction of users, 850Mhz is a requirement, and claiming that it does, when it doesn't is misrepresentation. |
| 02:15.24 | Mek | ajmitch: according to the last messages on the list the hardware does not support it completely |
| 02:15.26 | zilt | ajmitch: hardware doesn't support it - read the email |
| 02:15.35 | ajmitch | interesting |
| 02:15.47 | Writchie | i'm not so sure the hardware supports it without change - is the pass-band wide enough |
| 02:16.37 | zilt | Michael Shiloh says: "Unfortunately it's much more complicated: |
| 02:16.40 | zilt | it's a combination of circuit, components, firmware, and certification" |
| 02:16.48 | zilt | That's more then just a simple mistake |
| 02:16.59 | Writchie | cluster something |
| 02:17.34 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 02:17.39 | Writchie | 850/1800/1900 and 900/1800/1900 are not exactly rocket science - this is 3 year old stuff |
| 02:20.50 | linux_galore | I have this inner feeling the OM/NEO will get swamped by alternate options |
| 02:21.28 | linux_galore | over the next year |
| 02:21.46 | linux_galore | the Mobile phone market space is pretty flooded with options right now |
| 02:22.38 | Writchie | there is as yet no sign of manufacturers rushing in to supply hardware for roll-your-own phones. |
| 02:22.53 | zilt | hmm... found a table - there's GSM850 _only_ countries: Anguilla, Ecuador, Montserrat, Panama, St. Kitts and Nevis, Turks and Caicos Island |
| 02:22.56 | Writchie | fic remains unique at this point. |
| 02:23.04 | linux_galore | Writchie: CECT will make anything you ask for |
| 02:23.13 | zilt | Don't expect many developers from those countries though :) |
| 02:23.14 | Writchie | depending on volume |
| 02:23.51 | Writchie | zilt: it's not a case of 850 only - in many cases 850 + 1900 is required for good coverage. |
| 02:24.01 | Writchie | after all- we are talking about mobility |
| 02:24.15 | Writchie | not you're coverage from home |
| 02:24.23 | zilt | Writchie: just going by the gsm freqs and countries table at rogers website |
| 02:24.35 | *** join/#openmoko jkilb_ (n=jkilb@p5B20BAE3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:24.56 | mwester-road | Wow, that's a major mistake on FIC's part. Without 850, it's basically a europe-only phone. And the GTA02 is botched as well. |
| 02:25.12 | zilt | Writchie: http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/support/coverage.shtml#different_bands |
| 02:25.13 | mwester-road | So basically, now I have a very very expensive PDA |
| 02:25.22 | Writchie | mwester-road: not exactly - its still a european tri-band |
| 02:25.39 | Writchie | same situation as about 4 years ago |
| 02:25.58 | linux_galore | mwester-road: not really, most PDA's have a smaller screen with far lower res |
| 02:26.02 | PirateHead | Plus, even in mature markets, I wouldn't say we're "flooded with options". |
| 02:26.52 | PirateHead | For desktops, there are two credible proprietary systems (Apple's and Microsoft's) and a few credible open technologies (Ubuntu, Fedora, SUSE, Mandriva). |
| 02:27.15 | linux_galore | try buying a open pda with a decent res screen, they cost a fortune |
| 02:27.51 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 02:27.54 | PirateHead | For servers, throw in a few more competitors: NetWare, various UNIX technologies (BSD, Solaris, etc), and so on. |
| 02:28.03 | linux_galore | although the N800/N810 are pretty good |
| 02:28.14 | linux_galore | for the money |
| 02:28.15 | mwester-road | So basically, the North American market is closed to this project. Bummer. And I'll be so bold as to say it: "Openmoko: This is a bone-headed mistake of colossal proportion." |
| 02:28.22 | Mek | btw, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:November_6%2C_2007_Community_Update to tell openmoko you need 850 |
| 02:28.37 | *** join/#openmoko flaushy_ (n=flaushy@static-ip-62-75-240-161.inaddr.intergenia.de) |
| 02:29.44 | mwester-road | linux_galore: I'm open to someone selling me the device as a PDA; I'd like to feel better about the investment! But frankly, if I wanted device that didn't do phone, I'd own an N800. |
| 02:29.46 | Writchie | mwester-road: it remains to be seen whether they can/will provide an Americas Tri-band. |
| 02:30.31 | linux_galore | the US market is too big to ignore |
| 02:30.45 | mwester-road | But the problem is that they DID ignore it! |
| 02:30.46 | Writchie | not really |
| 02:31.11 | mwester-road | How in the heck could they have gotten this far, and not figured this out before the GTA02 was done? |
| 02:31.17 | mwester-road | I'll tell you - I just realized the answer. |
| 02:31.33 | mwester-road | The focus for Openmoko has been the HDX* device. |
| 02:31.36 | linux_galore | Writchie: might be right if you consider all the lockin packages sold in the USA compared to Europe |
| 02:31.58 | StylusEater | HDX? |
| 02:32.17 | mwester-road | They forgot the community, ignored the feedback on the bug tracker, the IRC channel, and as a result they finished the GTA02 before they realized it was botched. And then they didn't dare tell anyone. |
| 02:33.18 | mwester-road | StylusEater: The product that doesn't exist -- it was unveiled the other day; its a smart, GSM-connected GPS navigation device. |
| 02:33.19 | Writchie | the hardware has been botched in a number of regards |
| 02:33.24 | linux_galore | how about they knew and the US market is a waste of time for such a device considering most mobiles are sold packaged in the USA |
| 02:34.02 | mwester-road | linux_galore: Then they should have come clean and told the community that before so many people in NA invested in a product that won't, and can't, work. |
| 02:34.26 | Writchie | mwester-road: this is true. |
| 02:34.43 | StylusEater | I don't think there was something sinister afoot... |
| 02:35.07 | linux_galore | I would have even bothered with the US market to be honest i would have gone for the more open European market |
| 02:35.15 | mwester-road | StylusEater: "never ascribe to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity - Napoleon" |
| 02:35.34 | linux_galore | s/would/would not/ |
| 02:35.49 | Writchie | the US GSM market is open and its still about 35% - 40% of total |
| 02:35.59 | StylusEater | wuh? |
| 02:36.05 | StylusEater | I thought GSM was a sliver in the US |
| 02:36.15 | Writchie | nope |
| 02:36.17 | linux_galore | Writchie: yes but in Europe ownership of unlocked phones is allot higher than the USA |
| 02:36.23 | Writchie | AT&T + t-mo |
| 02:36.34 | anrp | also, at&t = cingular fyi |
| 02:36.45 | linux_galore | most phones in the USA are sold locked and crippled |
| 02:36.48 | Writchie | linux_galore: the american consumer is another story |
| 02:36.57 | mwester-road | linux_galore: all the more reason for a fully open phone |
| 02:37.15 | StylusEater | yes they are and imho most americans are either too dumb or really couldn't care less as far as it's bright and shiny |
| 02:37.32 | anrp | ooh, a generalization |
| 02:37.35 | StylusEater | s/far/long |
| 02:37.42 | Writchie | they are dumb about mobile for sure. |
| 02:37.42 | mwester-road | And a nasty generalization at that. |
| 02:37.46 | StylusEater | yes. b/c I'm a dumb american. |
| 02:37.51 | StylusEater | haha |
| 02:37.51 | Writchie | but you can make a lot of money from them |
| 02:38.00 | mwester-road | StylusEater: I'm not. |
| 02:38.04 | linux_galore | mwester-road: yes but the phone prices are 40% lower when locked so the NEO will look primitive and expensive in comparison to a consumer |
| 02:38.25 | Writchie | yes |
| 02:38.33 | mwester-road | linux_galore: Yep. |
| 02:38.49 | StylusEater | linux_galore: that's what my co-workers have said... |
| 02:38.51 | linux_galore | thats why Im saying the US market isnt a good one for the NEO |
| 02:38.53 | Writchie | that's a disclosure problem - subsdiy - but you have it every where |
| 02:39.16 | mwester-road | linux_galore: But if openmoko did the market analysis and came to that conclusion, and decided that 850 was therefore not of interest, then they shouldn't have sold the device in the NA market. |
| 02:39.32 | StylusEater | mwester-road: good advertisement? |
| 02:40.00 | linux_galore | mwester-road: yes but the product as of yet hasnt been sold as a working device |
| 02:40.24 | mwester-road | It was described as quad-band, and also as having a functional GPS. |
| 02:40.50 | mwester-road | I think both sides would have something to argue, if it would come to that. |
| 02:40.55 | linux_galore | mwester-road: not on the sales page |
| 02:41.27 | StylusEater | I don't see the hdx either... |
| 02:41.59 | zilt | mwester-road: Michael does say in an email reply to me about the missing 850: "By the way, I think GPS is more hopeful." |
| 02:42.21 | mwester-road | linux_galore: here we go. Down the *#%*$ lawyer rathole. I'm not going there with you -- we all know that the device was BELIEVED to be quad-band, and openmoko did NOTHING to dispell that misperception. |
| 02:43.18 | linux_galore | mwester-road: the hardware chipset specs are there to be viewed openly, if the hardware can do it then its a matter of the firmware working |
| 02:43.56 | mwester-road | zilt: I sure hope so, but I remain as skeptical on that as I always have been. But if that's released, then there's some hope for the device being useful. |
| 02:44.23 | zilt | linux_galore: right - so if the hardware isn't capable (as is now being stated) - but it was sold as a quad band phone, what then? |
| 02:44.31 | mwester-road | linux_galore: The chipset specs for the GSM modem are proprietary, and have never been disclosed. It has been described as quad-band-capable on the mailing list. |
| 02:45.26 | linux_galore | mwester-road: so its basically the proprietry driver not offering the full functionality of the hardware ? |
| 02:45.38 | zilt | anyways - if they fix the missing 850 on the gta02, I'll probably still get one - I'm to much of a developer geek not too :) |
| 02:46.50 | linux_galore | from what Im seeing its not a OM problem but the GSM chipset maker not offering the available features |
| 02:47.12 | duffyd | ohhh, I just took the battery out of my OM while the usb cable was still plugged in, now it doesn't appear to power on - is this bad? |
| 02:47.15 | Writchie | from product page boast of specifications: 2.5G GSM – quad band, voice, CSD, GPRS |
| 02:47.24 | duffyd | as in taking out the battery while the usb cable is plugged in? |
| 02:47.25 | linux_galore | bit like blaming Dell because ATI only offer 16 bit on a graphics card that can do 32 |
| 02:47.35 | Writchie | duffyd: not good - don't do it again. |
| 02:47.44 | zilt | linux_galore: really? I don't think so - unless "it's a combination of circuit, components, firmware, and certification." means something else/ |
| 02:47.51 | Writchie | no known case of other than bad noises and burning sounds! |
| 02:47.51 | mwester-road | linux_galore: I didn't buy a GSM modem from TI. I bought a Neo from Openmoko. Openmoko can argue the case with TI, but from the mailing list, it doesn't mention who's at fault (TI or Openmoko), but it does mention that it's more than software and firmware. |
| 02:47.53 | duffyd | Writchie: errr, if I can power it back on :( |
| 02:47.56 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 02:48.16 | duffyd | it started beeping after I unplugged the usb cable :( |
| 02:48.22 | Writchie | pull the usb plug - fast. Then reinsert battery |
| 02:48.32 | Writchie | it's not designed to work with no battery. |
| 02:49.04 | mwester-road | duffyd: ;) I think there will be a bunch of neo's on eBay real soon... ;) :D |
| 02:49.21 | duffyd | doh still no go. I'll see if leaving it plugged in to the USB for a while helps |
| 02:50.00 | duffyd | mwester-road: I'm in NZ where we use a band supported by the chip so I hope to hang on to mine :) |
| 02:50.02 | Writchie | duffyd: if the batter is dead it will a couple of hours to be able to boot. |
| 02:50.09 | Writchie | s/will/will take/ |
| 02:50.15 | duffyd | linux_galore: that's not nice :) |
| 02:50.19 | linux_galore | heh |
| 02:50.22 | duffyd | k, cool |
| 02:50.27 | duffyd | here's hoping |
| 02:50.36 | duffyd | otherwise me wants to scream and punch walls and stuff ;) |
| 02:50.57 | Writchie | there are several use cases now toast as the result of lack of 850. |
| 02:51.08 | mwester-road | just several? ;) |
| 02:51.31 | linux_galore | bbl |
| 02:51.32 | Writchie | well, all that involve marketing to US businesses and consumers. |
| 02:51.37 | *** part/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-72-160.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 02:52.14 | Writchie | unfortunately, as a t-mo only device is the same situation as an i-tard phone |
| 02:53.15 | mwester-road | Well, on the positive side, it's good to know that the device will never do 850; at least that lets me make a decision about whether to sell it, or see if there's something else I can find for it to do to justify it's cost. |
| 02:53.17 | *** join/#openmoko r11t (n=nepgeek@74.193.255.254) |
| 02:53.48 | mwester-road | Right now, if someone gives me a reasonable offer, I'm ready to sell a neo with an advanced kit and all accessories. |
| 02:57.15 | zilt | Michael wants your input on the 850 issue and a possible workaround - goto: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:November_6%2C_2007_Community_Update |
| 02:57.57 | *** part/#openmoko r11t (n=nepgeek@74.193.255.254) |
| 03:08.45 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 03:09.20 | ljp | us is about the only place that uses 850 |
| 03:10.12 | mwester-road | Yes? and? |
| 03:10.54 | Writchie | and Canada, Carribean, and IIRC parts of Brasil |
| 03:11.28 | Writchie | Ecuador and Panama are 850 only. |
| 03:11.58 | mwester-road | :P |
| 03:13.41 | Writchie | 850 gsm was a major break-through for countries where 900 was already occupied |
| 03:14.03 | Writchie | if 850 wasn't added there would be no gsm in US except for t-mobile |
| 03:14.35 | Writchie | both 1800 and 1900 suck for range |
| 03:14.53 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 03:14.55 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 03:15.01 | rwhitby | mwester: I'll give you ten bucks for the lot |
| 03:15.21 | doc|home | oh holy crap, they're going to have to go back through the FCC again? |
| 03:15.26 | rwhitby | in fact, I'll give you ten bucks just for the case the advanced kit came in :-) |
| 03:15.50 | rwhitby | doc|home: absolutely. 850 was not in the current fcc approval |
| 03:15.55 | doc|home | I'll give you 20 CAD for the rest, that's what, 400 USD these days? :) |
| 03:15.58 | Writchie | don't worry, GTA01 will be in demand as a android platform |
| 03:16.00 | mwester-road | rwhitby: for you I might just entertain that offer. :P |
| 03:16.01 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAC14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:16.20 | doc|home | rwhitby: how did this happen? It's a pretty serious f*%kup |
| 03:16.24 | Writchie | GTA02 has to be re-tested anyway |
| 03:16.48 | rwhitby | yeah, they could probably do a board and firmware mod to gta02 to get it triband 850, and then certify that |
| 03:16.50 | doc|home | not only that, but the board has to be redesigned? |
| 03:16.56 | doc|home | mwester-road: hehe |
| 03:17.22 | doc|home | well if they're going to do that they may as well just make a proper quad band |
| 03:17.34 | Writchie | doc|home it may only be component changes |
| 03:17.57 | doc|home | doesn't sound like that on the list |
| 03:17.57 | Writchie | 850/900 variants are pretty common with same layout |
| 03:18.35 | mwester-road | <bitter>yeah, now that they are done with the HDX-thingy, maybe they can spend some time on "details" like making sure that a quad-band phone is, well, "quad".</bitter> |
| 03:18.41 | doc|home | hehehe |
| 03:18.54 | rwhitby | wonder if hdx is quad band ... |
| 03:19.08 | mwester-road | hehe! Good question! |
| 03:19.21 | mwester-road | Whos that vendor? They might be as surprised as I... |
| 03:19.30 | doc|home | ok, so, I've got a motorola l2 here, which I've checked against fido (canada) btu it only offers two pairs of ranges, 850/1900 and 900/1800, how can I check which it's using (it only works on the former) |
| 03:19.32 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 03:20.18 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:20.30 | Writchie | 900/1800 won't work in North America at all |
| 03:21.11 | Writchie | 900/1800 is original GSM dual/band |
| 03:22.19 | doc|home | ok, but will 850/1900? |
| 03:22.27 | doc|home | seeing as 850 won't, or are they even linked? |
| 03:22.55 | Writchie | 850/1900 will work on any gsm network in north america but not at all in most of the rest of the world |
| 03:23.30 | doc|home | will the neo work on 850/1900 seeing as it won't work on 850, do you need the pair? |
| 03:23.45 | mwester-road | The carrier assumes (generally) that you have both |
| 03:23.46 | Writchie | ATM neo will only work on 1900 |
| 03:23.49 | zilt | doc|home: fido has a good table for freq/countries: http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/support/coverage.shtml#different_bands |
| 03:24.30 | Writchie | mwester-road: some carriers will only originate calls if you have both bands although this is rare |
| 03:24.42 | doc|home | zilt: ah, sweet, looks like fido in canada uses 1900 |
| 03:24.45 | Writchie | but I think rogers does this |
| 03:24.47 | mwester-road | For example, the higher frequency does not travel as far, and can use smaller antennas, and is easier to "focus" to make directional cells -- perfect for urban, dense areas. The lower frequency is excellent for large areas with low tower density -- perfect for rural. |
| 03:24.55 | doc|home | fido = rogers |
| 03:25.01 | zilt | fido -- rogers |
| 03:25.32 | Writchie | mwester-road: 1800/1900 is usually too-expensive as only network and is used in overlays as you say |
| 03:25.40 | mwester-road | For example, in the US, t-mobile has 1900 coverage in many urban centers, but they roam to 850 towers in less dense areas. |
| 03:25.43 | doc|home | fido = rogers = suck |
| 03:25.46 | doc|home | :) |
| 03:25.47 | Writchie | 4 times the cost if you don't use 850 |
| 03:25.50 | sagacis__ | Wow. I just read the 2-hour backlog..... |
| 03:26.18 | zilt | doc|home: total agreement! Roger's data plans are the worst.. |
| 03:26.19 | Writchie | mwester-road: i'm not sure t-mo has any 850 of their own, I don't think they even have licenses for it. |
| 03:26.19 | mwester-road | zilt: satellite connections suck for sure! |
| 03:26.29 | sagacis__ | And not to propose intended malice on FIC/OpenMoko's part, but they did not even apply for an 850 license with the FCC... |
| 03:26.55 | sagacis__ | So, it wasn't an "oops, I forgot about the North American's silly little frequency" |
| 03:27.14 | doc|home | zilt: indeed |
| 03:27.23 | sagacis__ | It does not appear there was EVER an attempt to license 850 in the US, which is what ticks me off. |
| 03:27.25 | zilt | mwester-road: yup - $150/month for 300k up?? and a 780ms ping time |
| 03:27.35 | Writchie | i suspect it was more a communication problem between the chinese and europeans |
| 03:27.46 | doc|home | zilt: better than fido data :) |
| 03:27.49 | sagacis__ | Perhaps. Nobody asked me, tho. |
| 03:28.03 | zilt | doc|home: heh |
| 03:28.12 | sagacis__ | I could have said, "Gee, you might want to try out one of the hokey sim cards and run it in the US before selling it here." |
| 03:28.27 | mwester-road | sagacis__: Funny, but I said something similar when the P0 phones were issued -- something along the lines of why didn't any of them go to North America? |
| 03:28.41 | doc|home | o.O |
| 03:28.44 | doc|home | none went? |
| 03:28.50 | Writchie | quad-band is still a premium feature worth a premium price. |
| 03:28.51 | sagacis__ | mwester-road: Me too. They went to markets that all had similar systems to tw. |
| 03:28.53 | doc|home | seriously, bad form all round :/ |
| 03:29.03 | Writchie | oh yeah, we paid for quad-band |
| 03:29.15 | sagacis__ | Writchie: I think the price was fair. |
| 03:29.36 | sagacis__ | The cost of these little devices should probably have been higher. I doubt any money was made on P1 at all. |
| 03:29.41 | Writchie | $300 was fair even for european tri-band |
| 03:30.14 | sagacis__ | However, I'm looking favorably at gumstix and building my own now, if FIC/OM can't give me an open phone for US usage. |
| 03:30.15 | Writchie | but those who need 850 are, well, screwed. |
| 03:30.19 | mwester-road | The ultimate in bad form, from where I stand, is how long it's taken them to release this info. Surely someone knew, but didn't tell -- which is bad. And if they didn't know, then someone was just not listening to the community, or just dropped the ball completely. Either way, it's a very bad situation. |
| 03:30.23 | sagacis__ | I'm just bummed I wasted my money on it. |
| 03:30.49 | Writchie | mwester-road: this exact statement was made many months ago. |
| 03:30.59 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177561368.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:31.34 | Writchie | at least the story is now confirmed, GTA01 as shipped will never work on 850. |
| 03:31.35 | sagacis__ | I paid attention to using my Neo this weekend. |
| 03:31.39 | doc|home | does the list have greylisting? |
| 03:31.49 | mwester-road | what list is that? |
| 03:31.53 | Writchie | GTA02 may or may not support and 850 variant |
| 03:31.53 | doc|home | mailing list |
| 03:32.08 | Writchie | GTA02 will not be a quad-band phone. |
| 03:32.14 | sagacis__ | I live in a major metro area, and 850 is used to fill gaps, even traveling a mile away from my house. |
| 03:33.04 | mwester-road | I'm on a fringe, so I switch from 850 to 1900 as I change rooms in my house! |
| 03:33.10 | Henryk | the problem, as I was being told, is that the modem, even though it is sold as a four-band modem, only can support three bands at a time: 1800, 1900 and 850 xor 900 |
| 03:33.17 | Writchie | a network will not work in US withou 850 anymore than one in europe without 900 |
| 03:33.26 | mwester-road | I have 1900 with t-mobile if the neo is on the right-hand side of my desk, close to the west window. |
| 03:33.28 | mwester-road | :) |
| 03:33.28 | sagacis__ | mwester-road: Me too. My bedroom and living room are 1900, others 850 |
| 03:34.31 | mwester-road | Henryk: Someone mentioned that on the mailing list a week or two (?) ago; I guess I had just assumed that meant a special AT modem command to switch between the set of tri-bands. |
| 03:34.32 | oc2k1 | why 850 xor 900 ? |
| 03:34.50 | |R | so it can be toggled? |
| 03:35.14 | sagacis__ | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/November_6%2C_2007_Community_Update |
| 03:35.17 | mwester-road | |R: perhaps, but according to the mailing list, not by means of software or even simple hardware changes. |
| 03:35.21 | Writchie | Henryk: the modem supports all 4 bands, only one high and low are ever used at one time. However, the rf sections must be laid out to support dual low-bands and dual hi-bands and the neo is laid out for only one low-band. |
| 03:35.33 | Henryk | oc2k1: because there are only three signal paths, and each of them needs a special filter for the frequency. so you need to solder in different filters for 850 and 900. and then do a new calibration |
| 03:35.36 | sagacis__ | "850Mhz is not supported on the GTA01 board" |
| 03:36.12 | Writchie | component changes to the board could support 850 by sacrificing 900 |
| 03:36.38 | Writchie | which is common known as european triband versus americas tri-band |
| 03:37.12 | oc2k1 | dip switch :P |
| 03:37.14 | doc|home | ok, so this was quite obviously design with only tri-band in mind |
| 03:37.24 | doc|home | is it just me or is this a fuck up? |
| 03:37.39 | doc|home | either on the marketing side or on the design side |
| 03:37.40 | Writchie | even 850 with component changes and sacrificing 900 may have problems and in any case requires certification. |
| 03:37.47 | sagacis__ | doc|home: You must be in the US |
| 03:37.52 | nasum | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:37.54 | mwester-road | I might call it worse than that, but I'll wait to hear what fic/openmoko have to say further on this. |
| 03:37.54 | Writchie | oc2k1: not a gigahertz |
| 03:37.58 | doc|home | sagacis__: Irish in Canada :P |
| 03:38.07 | doc|home | sagacis__: will work for me I hope :o |
| 03:38.10 | nasum | so, this means no openmoko in the us? !! |
| 03:38.17 | sagacis__ | doc|home: Ah, even worse. You really do need quadband |
| 03:38.17 | u_l-lap | no |
| 03:38.17 | Henryk | oc2k1: not only component changes, but you also need to reload calibration data which you probably wouldn't be able to do as an end user. not even speaking of certification here |
| 03:38.25 | u_l-lap | I haven't had 850 ever and my phone works fine in the US |
| 03:38.43 | mwester-road | then you don't travel very far, u_l-lap |
| 03:38.43 | nasum | ok, good |
| 03:38.49 | sagacis__ | u_l-lap: If you use ATT or T-Mobile, you have to use 850 |
| 03:38.54 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: up and down the east coast |
| 03:38.57 | nasum | <-- uses att |
| 03:38.59 | oc2k1 | that was ironic :P I know the problem of microwave designs... |
| 03:39.03 | u_l-lap | sagacis__: no t-mo is 1900 only that is why I got t-mo |
| 03:39.11 | doc|home | sagacis__: I thought it didn't look like it but now I'm not so sure :( |
| 03:39.12 | Writchie | OM does not have any of the systems or management or mindset which would prevent such screw ups. Use Cases, Marketing requirements, Specifications, Design Reviews, Verification, Validation, etc. do not really exist (yet). |
| 03:39.15 | sagacis__ | u_l-lap: It roams on 850 |
| 03:39.20 | u_l-lap | as three years ago there were no good 850 phones so I had to illegaly import one from europe |
| 03:39.23 | mwester-road | u_l-lap: the east coast is a small, very small some would say, part of the entire country. |
| 03:39.28 | u_l-lap | sagacis__: Only in *very small pockets* |
| 03:39.37 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: it is the most densely populated part |
| 03:39.38 | Henryk | bah, stupid US. Not only not having GSM coverage everywhere but also not using the same frequencies as everyone else. Can't they please just stop being so special? |
| 03:39.43 | u_l-lap | the rest is a desert and some hippies |
| 03:39.46 | sagacis__ | Not so in other parts of the US. |
| 03:40.05 | mwester-road | Oh. Sorry, u_l-lap, I was not aware that the east coast was the only part that mattered. My mistake, then. :P |
| 03:40.12 | doc|home | ok, so, if I have 1900mhz coverage, will that be enough for the neo? |
| 03:40.14 | sagacis__ | heh. I'm a desert hippie! |
| 03:40.17 | Writchie | actually, the europeans selected a frequency already in irrevocable use in the US. |
| 03:40.54 | u_l-lap | doc|home: yes |
| 03:40.58 | mwester-road | doc|home: Yes, if you are content with pockets of coverage. |
| 03:40.58 | sagacis__ | doc|home: Not for me. I can't travel a mile down the road without flipping between frequencies more than once. |
| 03:41.00 | doc|home | u_l-lap: thanks |
| 03:41.04 | doc|home | "You may experience better signal level with an 850 MHz-capable handset in more-rural areas, but you are not likely to notice any difference in urban areas where there is Fido network coverage." |
| 03:41.04 | zilt | Henryk: uses 850 too - plus several other countries in the Americas |
| 03:41.08 | u_l-lap | doc|home: where do you live roughly? |
| 03:41.20 | oc2k1 | a other question, what will be with the opengl es implementation? Smedia doesn't have many informations on their page |
| 03:41.25 | zilt | Henryk: Canada uses 850 too.. |
| 03:41.32 | doc|home | u_l-lap: downtown vancouver but work slightly outside the city |
| 03:41.40 | u_l-lap | hmm, never been there |
| 03:41.44 | u_l-lap | I had service in toronto though |
| 03:41.55 | u_l-lap | service I didn't use because I was afear of the horrible roaming charges |
| 03:42.04 | doc|home | yeah, they suck |
| 03:42.16 | u_l-lap | "fifteen million dollars per second" |
| 03:42.21 | nasum | so the summary is that without 850 coverage will suck, and suck even worse in rural areas? |
| 03:42.28 | mwester-road | Yep. |
| 03:42.30 | nasum | ok |
| 03:42.31 | sagacis__ | nasum: Yup. |
| 03:42.34 | u_l-lap | nasum: no it will only suck if you use AT&T or live in the midwest |
| 03:42.35 | nasum | :-( |
| 03:42.36 | mwester-road | rural will be non-existant. |
| 03:42.38 | sagacis__ | If suck == "not at all" |
| 03:42.51 | Writchie | nasum: it depends where you spend your time. |
| 03:42.57 | nasum | San Francisco and NYC |
| 03:43.06 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: the rural places I have been had service most of the time |
| 03:43.09 | sagacis__ | I can use 1900 in parts of my house and in some buildings at work |
| 03:43.30 | doc|home | nasum: AT&T are evil anyway, dump 'em :) |
| 03:43.34 | mwester-road | u_l-lap: Please, please don't insult me by continuing to mistake the east coast for the entire country. |
| 03:43.36 | nasum | I guess I'll just use the wifi/voip option .. wait DOH |
| 03:43.40 | sagacis__ | Though there is 1900 coverage ALL along my commute, since ATT and Cingular merged (doubled coverage), I seem to hop around a lot |
| 03:43.50 | u_l-lap | sagacis__: perhaps you could use 1900 in more places but your handset switches to 850 when available? |
| 03:43.54 | Writchie | t-mobile is relatively good in most major cities, but nothing like service in europe or asia where dual bands are widespread. |
| 03:43.57 | JohnMahowald | How can you tell which frequency you're using? |
| 03:44.24 | sagacis__ | u_l-lap: I would love to, but the neo keeps dropping. I don't really have any control over the selection of frequencies. |
| 03:44.31 | mwester-road | The real question is this: can you live with "maybe" for coverage, or do you need to have coverage wherever you travel? |
| 03:44.31 | sagacis__ | Especially when driving 80 mpg |
| 03:44.39 | sagacis__ | s/mpg/mph |
| 03:44.42 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: you cannot say rural service will not exist when it will in some places |
| 03:44.43 | mwester-road | If coverage is "optional" for you, then the neo will work in the US. |
| 03:44.57 | sagacis__ | It makes a nice clock. |
| 03:44.59 | mwester-road | If you expect to use the device where ever you are, then you cannot use it. |
| 03:45.03 | nasum | sag: hehe |
| 03:45.03 | Aria | For the record, I'm on rural US T-mobile. It works. |
| 03:45.04 | mwester-road | period. That simple. |
| 03:45.07 | sagacis__ | Of course, the time rarely right... |
| 03:45.27 | Writchie | right now I would say neo is only suitable for those who presently are satisfied with t-mo on a european tri-band |
| 03:45.28 | sagacis__ | Aria, everywhere? Do you use it daily? |
| 03:45.49 | Aria | sagacis__: For now, in my town. Not using it that much because of software though |
| 03:45.50 | u_l-lap | mwester-laptop: I also used to work for t-mo and, assuming their coverage maps haven't changed drastically in the last two years (who knows), roaming was 1900 almost everywhere on both coasts with *very* few 850 spots in the midwest where nothing else was available |
| 03:45.56 | sagacis__ | My "it just works" dialer doesn't answer unless it is showing, and sometimes crashes. |
| 03:46.02 | Aria | sagacis__: But yes, the Commnet Wireless-owned T-mobile subcontractor works |
| 03:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko E78C8EE4BABA (n=hunter@shell.icgroup.com) |
| 03:46.19 | mwester-road | u_l-lap: you have a very different map than the one t-mobile shows. |
| 03:46.26 | Writchie | but is everyone here just a user?? |
| 03:46.47 | Writchie | what happens to your business cases when you can't use AT&T network |
| 03:47.37 | sagacis__ | u_l-lap: You must stick close to major motorways. 1900 towers really don't reach too far. |
| 03:47.48 | u_l-lap | sagacis__: I don't use motorways at all |
| 03:48.30 | u_l-lap | trains and my bicycles the dynamic duo |
| 03:48.44 | mwester-road | If you can't get full coverage in north america, then the device becomes even more of a niche product. Rather than meeting the vision that Sean lays out on the openmoko.com website, the device becomes a PDA that occasionally offers GSM service, but you still need your RAZR for real cell phone use. |
| 03:49.35 | mwester-road | u_l-lap: you don't drive anywhere, yet you claim that you have complete coverage with 1900 on the entire east coast? |
| 03:49.37 | sagacis__ | u_l-lap: Good for you. What is your normal traveling range, in distance? |
| 03:49.56 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: I (used to) travel up and down the coast a lot |
| 03:50.34 | u_l-lap | sagacis__: regularly about 80 miles with the occasional 300 mile hop up to maryland, but I've been up and down the entire coast on tour |
| 03:50.35 | |R | but uhm, is it too late / hard to add a quad band path on the GTA02 board ? |
| 03:50.40 | mwester-road | u_l-lap: I hardly think your experience in terms of the type of travel for the typical commuter is common -- it's a good datapoint for train and local travel, but it doesn't really count for coverage on the expressways. |
| 03:50.58 | u_l-lap | I also ride with people on the highways |
| 03:51.20 | mwester-road | Ok. |
| 03:51.23 | u_l-lap | service in 85 between richmond and dc is a bit spotty but that is it along the major travel corridors |
| 03:51.27 | u_l-lap | s/in/on/ |
| 03:51.29 | Writchie | |R out of the question for GTA02 |
| 03:51.45 | |R | :( |
| 03:52.06 | Writchie | tri-band 850/1800/1900 MAY be possible. |
| 03:52.14 | Writchie | offered as a variant model |
| 03:52.23 | Writchie | christmas 2008 |
| 03:52.32 | mwester-road | hehe! |
| 03:52.33 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: my point is just that no 850 is not the end of the world |
| 03:53.03 | mwester-road | u_l-lap: my point is that there are many many people who expect a cell phone to work whereever they are, and that for them, lack of 850 is a show-stopper. |
| 03:53.06 | zilt | u_l-lap: it _is_ if you live and work in a 850 only zone (which I do) |
| 03:53.12 | Writchie | u_l-lap: unless your market is U.S. |
| 03:53.35 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: anyone who expects their phone to work everywhere is a bit deluded |
| 03:53.40 | u_l-lap | even verizon doesn't work everywhere |
| 03:54.16 | mwester-road | u_l-lap: my daughter goes to school in Boston, there's no way in hell she will EVER have a phone that doesn't do 850 -- I will not risk her not being able to place a call because she's in a bad spot for 1900. I travel, I can't risk not making a phone call because I'm in the wrong part of the airport terminal. |
| 03:54.31 | mwester-road | It's just stupid to limit your ability to communicate. |
| 03:54.32 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: boston ... 850? |
| 03:54.45 | u_l-lap | mwester-road: my phone was fine there when I went two years ago |
| 03:54.55 | mwester-road | There's more to ma. than boston downtown, you know. |
| 03:55.13 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@76.209.220.8) |
| 03:55.19 | Writchie | a north-american triband (850/1800/1900) is acceptable for 98% of americans, all those who do not travel International. |
| 03:55.20 | u_l-lap | we went to some strange places and played a show in a basement after walking up and down and crossing the town on the T |
| 03:55.44 | u_l-lap | I even had service in middle of nowhere maine |
| 03:55.52 | Writchie | 1900, howver, is not acceptable because it precludes 2/3rd of the GSM market which is already only 40% of total market. |
| 03:56.03 | Writchie | s/1900/1900 only/ |
| 03:56.15 | |R | what are the GSM bands in japan? |
| 03:56.22 | Writchie | no GSM in japan. |
| 03:56.28 | Writchie | except maybe one small carrier |
| 03:56.33 | oc2k1 | japan has another system or not? |
| 03:56.45 | Writchie | they have their own |
| 03:56.49 | zilt | |R: None - Japan is W-CDMA |
| 03:57.04 | |R | zilt : i know, but i thougth that they had coverage like we do here |
| 03:57.20 | Writchie | they have far better coverage and system |
| 03:57.26 | Writchie | however its incompatible with rest of the world |
| 03:57.47 | zilt | |R: didn't think they did - but I've never been (want to though) |
| 03:58.08 | |R | zilt : hehe same here, trying to go at the end of mars, i'll tell you if i see an openmoko in the street haha ;) |
| 03:59.10 | zilt | |R: And I'll planning on going to Aus in March - I'll let you know about that too :) |
| 03:59.24 | zilt | of course, I'm sure there's ozzies around here... |
| 03:59.41 | |R | :) |
| 04:01.40 | Writchie | maybe the orange GTA02 can be 900/1800/1900 and the black 850/1800/1900 ;) |
| 04:02.22 | |R | fine by me ;) |
| 04:02.54 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177561368.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:03.08 | oc2k1 | look like nobody likes the orange version :P |
| 04:03.17 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-245-122.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:04.06 | Mek | since I got a black GTA01 I want an orange GTA02 to be able to tell them apart :P |
| 04:04.16 | |R | haha |
| 04:04.30 | Writchie | GTA02 is the one with the LED |
| 04:04.41 | Writchie | behind the key |
| 04:05.10 | sagacis__ | And the wireless networking |
| 04:05.20 | sagacis__ | orospakr, just play some music and check the speakers |
| 04:05.43 | sagacis__ | Or wiggle and see if the screen flips (once that's added, of course) |
| 04:05.52 | |R | hehe or install an accelerometer aware screen saver... the one that dies when you shake it is the new one :P |
| 04:06.36 | Writchie | or hold it up to your head and see if the WiFi warms your brain |
| 04:07.17 | |R | wiiii! colors! |
| 04:08.45 | Writchie | how many european carriers roam with AT&T in US versus t-mo?? |
| 04:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko fish__ (n=fish@freigeist.org) |
| 04:11.48 | orospakr | so yeah, I wonder what the OHA/Android stuff is going to do to OpenMoko. |
| 04:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko Clint (n=Clint@thumb.scru.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:12.17 | moko-bunny | anyone have trouble building xserver-kdrive package in the last few days? |
| 04:12.35 | *** join/#openmoko cjb_ie (i=cjb@80-68-89-185.no-reverse-dns-set.bytemark.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:12.41 | *** join/#openmoko DerCorny (n=corny@62.75.171.150) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko jip (n=jip@kwark.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:13.14 | *** join/#openmoko taneli (i=vahakang@shell.hiit.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:13.28 | u_l-lap | orospakr: read the apache license and fear not! |
| 04:13.45 | *** join/#openmoko Schmidt (n=extintor@c-bac872d5.036-13-73746f36.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:14.25 | *** join/#openmoko Robot101 (n=robot101@light.bluelinux.co.uk) |
| 04:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko LarstiQ (i=larstiq@cust.7.157.adsl.cistron.nl) |
| 04:15.06 | *** join/#openmoko party- (i=party@stetson.frozenhat.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.18 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.32 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.254) |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAC14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko ventola_ (n=ventola@unaffiliated/ventola) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-116-144.44-151.net24.it) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko ewon (n=ewan@skynet.skynet.ie) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko ishiboo (n=ishiboo@67.19.125.82) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko ar0x (i=al@chocobo.soja.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=nnnncwor@c-71-193-239-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko fish_ (n=fish@freigeist.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump (n=mhentges@nslu2-linux/CoreDumpHome) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:15.38 | *** join/#openmoko ewon_ (n=ewan@skynet.skynet.ie) |
| 04:15.39 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 04:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 04:16.58 | |R | u_l-lap : hehe, this bsd ^H^H^H apache license is going to be horrible... i see carriers starting to push custom highly locked phones onto people.. |
| 04:17.31 | u_l-lap | |R: no the apache license has some really evil clauses |
| 04:17.33 | |R | and thus get rid of nokia and the like who were trying to open their market outside of those carriers... |
| 04:17.39 | |R | u_l-lap : oh? |
| 04:17.48 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@68-120-110-67.ded.pacbell.net) |
| 04:17.51 | u_l-lap | let me find the fsf page on it |
| 04:18.07 | |R | i thought it was a BSD license making it clear that you have your patent away... |
| 04:18.22 | |R | s/have/give/ |
| 04:18.23 | u_l-lap | oh those bastards updated their license |
| 04:18.29 | u_l-lap | now I can't hate them eternally |
| 04:18.58 | |R | hehe |
| 04:19.11 | |R | there is 1.0 1.1 and 2.0 of that license i think... |
| 04:19.17 | |R | OHA is v2 |
| 04:19.23 | u_l-lap | yeah 2.0 fixes the evil bits |
| 04:21.45 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177561368.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:23.12 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.254) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:23.16 | oc2k1 | gn8 |
| 04:23.50 | ckuethe | |R: hardly |
| 04:24.23 | ckuethe | bsd licence roughly means "I don't care what you do with my code so long as you give me props if you use it" |
| 04:24.57 | |R | agreed :) |
| 04:25.01 | ckuethe | the disclaimer clauses absolve me of any responsibility if you violate someone's patent by using it |
| 04:25.20 | |R | i don't see how this cooperation is going to take place between competitors... |
| 04:25.28 | ckuethe | yeah, me neither |
| 04:25.31 | |R | beside having a very basic core needed for the rest... |
| 04:25.53 | |R | and than everyone is going to fork into proprietary extension, embrace and extend mayhem |
| 04:27.53 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.254) |
| 04:27.53 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAC14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:27.53 | *** join/#openmoko ventola_ (n=ventola@unaffiliated/ventola) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:27.53 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 04:27.53 | *** join/#openmoko ishiboo (n=ishiboo@67.19.125.82) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:27.53 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=nnnncwor@c-71-193-239-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:27.54 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:27.55 | doc|home | <|R> u_l-lap : hehe, this bsd ^H^H^H apache license is going to be horrible... i see carriers starting to push custom highly locked phones onto people.. |
| 04:28.01 | doc|home | pretty much the same as now then :) |
| 04:28.01 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.254) |
| 04:28.13 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-45-115.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 04:29.06 | ljp | doc|home: I agree |
| 04:29.25 | u_l-lap | luckily google is behind it so all of the lamers will flock to it |
| 04:29.27 | doc|home | still though, openmoko (or something equally open) or nothing |
| 04:29.32 | doc|home | u_l-lap: haha |
| 04:29.56 | u_l-lap | "omg it is from google they make cool things like gmail they are the best" |
| 04:30.35 | u_l-lap | "oh no google has enslaved us" |
| 04:30.43 | *** join/#openmoko ar0x (i=al@chocobo.soja.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:31.09 | Mek | text messages with contextual ads! :P |
| 04:31.35 | ljp | just need txt blocker add-on |
| 04:31.56 | |R | yep... |
| 04:32.30 | |R | I'm wondering how nokia will answer to this with the N810 / maemo platform... |
| 04:32.36 | |R | Will they open up a bit more? |
| 04:33.46 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 04:35.34 | *** join/#openmoko pigeon_ (n=pigeon@218-214-60-232.people.net.au) |
| 04:35.47 | *** join/#openmoko ixxs (n=andreas@lacht.ueber.gattinnen-im-netz.de) |
| 04:36.01 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz_ (i=ynezz@ibawizard.net) |
| 04:36.28 | *** join/#openmoko spikebik1 (n=bill@209.237.247.72) |
| 04:36.32 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:37.15 | *** join/#openmoko DPThough1 (n=tilli@62.206.217.68) |
| 04:38.51 | *** join/#openmoko Kaloz_ (i=kaloz@openwrt.org) |
| 04:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko gi-el (n=giel@twigs.okkernoot.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko ryd (n=jens@nons.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko schonstal (n=schonsta@osuosl/staff/schonstal) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.08 | *** join/#openmoko MMN-o (n=mmn@74-150.powerdsl.t3.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar_ (n=bipolar@216-164-162-138.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko xiq (n=pix@foton-gw.xdsl.easynet.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@GMKLXVII.dsl.saunalahti.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko mlpug (n=mlpug__@a88-115-165-32.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko PwrKroll (n=brian@c-67-176-176-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko psal (n=ps@s3.flex.ch) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko cbrake_away (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar (i=bflong@216-164-162-138.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko JohnMahowald (n=john@fedora/fedorared) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz (i=ynezz@ibawizard.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko DPThought (n=tilli@mail.collax.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko kristian-m (i=kristian@217.13.205.113) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko riot (n=wntrmut@krombacher-pils.oph.RWTH-Aachen.DE) |
| 04:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko alp (n=alp@host-87-74-21-228.bulldogdsl.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko sparq (n=russell@ich.thy.om.orpho.us) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko ryd (n=jens@openwrt/developer/ryd) |
| 04:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko spikebike (n=bill@209.237.247.72) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko koredn (n=kn@busimess.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko Kaloz (i=kaloz@openwrt/developer/Kaloz) |
| 04:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko ryd_ (n=jens@nons.de) |
| 04:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko Kaloz_ (i=kaloz@openwrt.org) |
| 04:40.39 | *** join/#openmoko JohnMahowald (n=john@140.209.112.60) |
| 04:40.39 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar__ (i=bflong@216-164-162-138.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:41.54 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 04:42.41 | *** join/#openmoko lal1 (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 04:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko raynet (i=raynet@thalassa.inside.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:46.19 | *** join/#openmoko Jeroen (i=jeroen@neonescio.viaisn.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:46.58 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.103.2) |
| 04:50.55 | *** join/#openmoko DPThought (n=tilli@mail.collax.com) |
| 04:53.10 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz_ (i=ynezz@ibawizard.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko DPThough1 (n=tilli@62.206.217.68) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko ar0x (i=al@chocobo.soja.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko ventola_ (n=ventola@unaffiliated/ventola) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko ishiboo (n=ishiboo@67.19.125.82) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=nnnncwor@c-71-193-239-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:56.23 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 04:58.01 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 05:00.54 | *** join/#openmoko jkilb_ (n=jkilb@p5B2080A7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:01.15 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAC14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:05.42 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 05:13.15 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 05:14.52 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit_ (n=chatzill@32.146.155.38) |
| 05:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko raddy (n=raddy@59.92.144.155) |
| 05:21.08 | raddy | Hello Everybody |
| 05:21.11 | Aria | Hello |
| 05:22.33 | raddy | According to Koen's blog http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/openmoko-progress he said the dialer now just works |
| 05:22.57 | raddy | But in the he mentioned all using a different distribution |
| 05:23.01 | *** join/#openmoko mmontour (n=mmontour@S01060016b606e65a.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 05:23.21 | Aria | Different than what? |
| 05:23.25 | raddy | called Ångström |
| 05:23.38 | Aria | Oh, yeah, and it works |
| 05:23.58 | raddy | so, the Dialer bug fixes are not yet merged to the openmoko distribution? |
| 05:24.38 | Aria | Not sure myself. |
| 05:24.47 | Aria | HAven't paid attention to commits |
| 05:24.52 | raddy | :( |
| 05:25.18 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit_ (n=chatzill@32.146.199.174) |
| 05:26.52 | *** join/#openmoko unarzna_ (i=hk69690@node1.cluster.cs.uta.fi) |
| 05:27.15 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit_ (n=chatzill@32.146.199.174) |
| 05:33.10 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@71-215-211-30.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 05:35.10 | cb23 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:38.06 | CM | cb23: :P |
| 05:38.33 | CM | I noticed the discussion.. |
| 05:38.40 | *** part/#openmoko raddy (n=raddy@59.92.144.155) |
| 05:39.59 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 05:40.46 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p549527EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:43.09 | cb23 | CM, heh, indeed |
| 05:43.13 | cb23 | think they will make a 850 varient? |
| 05:44.20 | CM | I wonder if that's a firmware upgrade only.. |
| 05:44.41 | cb23 | i'm not sure, they did mention something about the board |
| 05:45.19 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@cpe-67-9-161-48.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 05:47.42 | CM | Hmm.. Ok |
| 05:53.53 | *** join/#openmoko summatus_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 05:58.24 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 06:05.16 | mbuf | Hopscotch, good morning |
| 06:08.42 | CM | Talking about frequencies in US, this was a nice blogpost: http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2007/11/05/t-mo-got-no-spec-trum/ |
| 06:12.02 | *** part/#openmoko icman (n=Administ@60-249-22-235.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 06:15.31 | *** join/#openmoko raddy (n=raddy@59.92.144.155) |
| 06:15.45 | raddy | Hello Everybody |
| 06:16.02 | raddy | Did anybody check out this? |
| 06:16.05 | raddy | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=985 |
| 06:16.44 | raddy | Isn't there any other way to access applications ?? |
| 06:19.11 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:22.16 | *** join/#openmoko chainlynx (n=dannyc@c-24-23-194-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:24.38 | *** part/#openmoko raddy (n=raddy@59.92.144.155) |
| 06:26.21 | *** part/#openmoko joolz (n=joolz@kiar.xs4all.nl) |
| 06:27.21 | CM | impatient guy |
| 06:27.25 | CM | :) |
| 06:33.07 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 06:35.48 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X1120.x.pppool.de) |
| 06:37.03 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@32.147.68.89) |
| 06:37.41 | *** join/#openmoko wolfgang_spraul (n=wolfgang@office.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 06:39.04 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 06:42.28 | Sup3rkiddo | hi everyone |
| 06:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:46.36 | *** join/#openmoko raddy (n=raddy@59.92.144.155) |
| 06:47.00 | raddy | Hello Everybody |
| 06:47.22 | raddy | Is it possible to access application without using Today? |
| 06:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko Tjikkun (n=tjikkun@82-204-54-115.dsl.bbeyond.nl) |
| 06:49.25 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125) |
| 06:50.35 | mbuf | raddy, run it from the terminal? |
| 06:52.03 | CM | A simple "Run" program would be nice :) |
| 07:01.56 | *** join/#openmoko Richard_ (n=zhaoshic@222.66.81.98) |
| 07:03.51 | *** join/#openmoko twistx__ (n=no@64.30.190.171) |
| 07:06.34 | *** part/#openmoko Richard_ (n=zhaoshic@222.66.81.98) |
| 07:07.29 | flexd | ah what a glorious morning, dont you just love waking up to having fix office wide power failures? :/ |
| 07:07.34 | flexd | having to fix* |
| 07:08.01 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 07:09.46 | jeddy3 | :/ |
| 07:12.37 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxD_ (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 07:13.48 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-79-14.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 07:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-84-70.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 07:16.53 | *** join/#openmoko d3 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 07:18.52 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@130.60.39.67) |
| 07:19.02 | flexd | especially when it involves manually unplugging/replugging 15 or so switches by hand, on two diffrent sides of the building >_< |
| 07:20.26 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 07:22.33 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@lavalette.guerrier.info) |
| 07:23.29 | *** part/#openmoko chainlynx (n=dannyc@c-24-23-194-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:25.27 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@130.60.39.67) |
| 07:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 07:34.24 | blindcoder | moin |
| 07:36.54 | ScaredyCat | abraxa_: ping |
| 07:47.49 | zash | gsm-question: what prevents one from sending sms/data directly to another phone? |
| 07:48.12 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9467.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:50.15 | flexd | CM: they sure are.. :( |
| 07:50.16 | ScaredyCat | lazy mofos |
| 07:50.52 | CM | flexd: But weren't you at work? ;) |
| 07:50.57 | ScaredyCat | zash: you need a message center to send the message to, |
| 07:50.58 | flexd | CM: I am |
| 07:51.07 | flexd | but i'm the it admin trainee for a college level school ;) |
| 07:51.12 | ScaredyCat | that then routes the message to the appropriate device... |
| 07:51.21 | CM | Heh, ok |
| 07:51.48 | flexd | aka the guy that gets whipped around to do most stuff computer/technology related and gets paid jack shit :p |
| 07:53.03 | ScaredyCat | the problem with trying to send direct to a phone is that you'd have to a) have message center software running on it which would limit the phone type, b) have to reconfigure smsc each time |
| 07:53.25 | ScaredyCat | and probable c) bypass the nasty carrier blocking systems |
| 07:54.21 | ScaredyCat | oh and aside from the fact that you're not really a node on a network like a pc is on a network |
| 07:55.02 | ScaredyCat | coffee here please |
| 07:55.05 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 07:55.16 | CM | Heh, I could need some of that too |
| 07:55.56 | ScaredyCat | above |
| 07:56.16 | ScaredyCat | right.... |
| 07:56.26 | zash | left... |
| 07:56.54 | ScaredyCat | I fixed that applications list bug.. or at least fixed it for me |
| 07:57.20 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@60-240-29-193-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:57.25 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: You have 5 minutes ;) |
| 07:57.26 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:57.38 | ScaredyCat | d-bus... |
| 07:57.49 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 07:57.54 | ScaredyCat | just been readling about it to catch up... |
| 07:58.05 | abraxa_ | And? :) |
| 07:58.16 | ScaredyCat | can't you just use the system bus rather than the session bus ? |
| 07:58.22 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 08:00.17 | abraxa_ | Dunno, I let the gconf daemon handle the connection |
| 08:00.28 | abraxa_ | So it's up to the daemon |
| 08:00.33 | ScaredyCat | mmmm..... |
| 08:00.36 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=moravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 08:01.48 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9467.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9467.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:07.49 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-ac1a62824581c5f6) |
| 08:09.16 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9467.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:13.11 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.12) |
| 08:13.45 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=swel024@ip-58-28-204-172.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 08:16.07 | ScaredyCat | d : ping |
| 08:16.08 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host3-214-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:16.08 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|lappi (n=rob_w@p549B9467.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:22.29 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 08:24.28 | flexd | You were saying something? |
| 08:24.35 | flexd | I was away drinking coffee |
| 08:24.44 | flexd | damn phone wouldnt stop ringing so i felt it was needed to leave the office |
| 08:25.08 | flexd | seems power failures break more than one thing, all the fucking projectors are dead too now >_< |
| 08:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 08:27.16 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@147.87.129.235) |
| 08:31.30 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:33.19 | *** join/#openmoko jonibo (n=jonas@193.12.106.2) |
| 08:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-4925270a311f6405) |
| 08:46.06 | *** join/#openmoko zecke|math (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 08:50.02 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9467.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:51.27 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn167185.wlan.jku.at) |
| 08:55.56 | EsbenH | any interesting rumours on the Google mobile phone platform? |
| 08:57.00 | EsbenH | perhaps how it might be related to other LiMo partners and their mobile phone platform strategies... |
| 08:57.43 | gi-el | It's like, Hey, we've got forty spazzo companies that can't fuck their way out of a paper bag; let's put them all together and maybe they'll magically become some kind of big bad powerhouse. More likely it'll just be some scary ass Frankenstein monster, walking around drooling and tripping over its own tongue. <- FSJ explains the gphone |
| 08:57.56 | guaqua | at this point it looks like it's mostly useful as a common hardware layer to build on |
| 08:58.39 | guaqua | and that hardware part is not to be taken in its literal sense |
| 09:01.07 | EsbenH | Don't you think it is a bit uncertain to assume that Google is not able to produce a piece of quality software? |
| 09:01.11 | ScaredyCat | at this point it all seems like a load of bollocks |
| 09:01.24 | EsbenH | But what if they produce something really nice? |
| 09:01.46 | EsbenH | And what if they were actually to release it under GPL/LGPL... |
| 09:01.55 | guaqua | there's no reason them to produce anything other than what there already is |
| 09:01.56 | ScaredyCat | I mean seriously, no a single screenshot? not a single piece if useful information? nothing? |
| 09:01.57 | guaqua | just cheaper |
| 09:02.33 | ScaredyCat | their 'video' says bugger all, their site says less... |
| 09:02.57 | EsbenH | Google might have some $$ reasons for keeping everything tight for now... |
| 09:03.33 | *** join/#openmoko Schmidt_ (n=extintor@c-bac872d5.036-13-73746f36.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:03.33 | ScaredyCat | they might... |
| 09:03.33 | guaqua | i wouldn't be that optimistic |
| 09:03.47 | ScaredyCat | the question is why did then even bother to announce it. |
| 09:03.59 | EsbenH | anyway, I am just saying that IF they actually produce something nice, and if they were to release the nice parts under GPL/LGPL, we should try to be agile to leverage the OpenMoko platform with that. |
| 09:03.59 | guaqua | looks like google is the bitch when it comes to this project, they just had to do it that way to get big handset makers into play |
| 09:04.15 | ScaredyCat | there's noting available to look at until the 11th, why not announce it then |
| 09:04.54 | EsbenH | hehe, I for one don't try to understand the minds of marketing dudes ,-) |
| 09:05.06 | EsbenH | they are so screwed. |
| 09:05.14 | ScaredyCat | (sorry 12th not 11th) |
| 09:06.11 | EsbenH | It would be unfortunate to have more than one telephony API for developing OSS applications for mobile phones. |
| 09:07.55 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@60-240-29-193-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:10.17 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@60-240-29-193-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:14.27 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@158.102.66.32) |
| 09:15.15 | *** join/#openmoko doron (n=Ofek@bzq-79-177-145-132.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 09:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko tkooda (i=goaway@box.lag.in) |
| 09:21.02 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@e179108023.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:21.03 | tkooda | what does the openmoko community think about google's android initiative? |
| 09:22.03 | ScaredyCat | not much |
| 09:22.39 | tkooda | ..implying that you don't have faith that it'll be a big deal? -or implying that it'll be insignificant in openmoko's efforts? ..or what? |
| 09:22.48 | ScaredyCat | there's no information other than the marketing fluff.. we have to wait intil the 12th to get any sort of detail |
| 09:23.02 | ScaredyCat | s/intil/until/ |
| 09:25.00 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:25.34 | ljp | since its under an Apache license, commercial vendors are allowed to not contribute to the community, so.. its really just business-as-usual and doesn't really mean much to the open source community, IMHO |
| 09:26.03 | ljp | you will still see vendor lock in and such |
| 09:27.28 | Maledictus | apache license is osi approved |
| 09:27.33 | Maledictus | or not? |
| 09:27.56 | ljp | yes, but that doesnt mean people usingdeveloping for it have to use the same license |
| 09:27.59 | tkooda | I dunno if "business as usual" is entirely accurate.. if google's api provides me with standardized hooks into the hardware, that's something that I'm interested in from large manuf's |
| 09:28.18 | mbuf | ljp, similar to LiMo, www.limofoundation.org? |
| 09:28.31 | ljp | mbuf: sounds like it ya |
| 09:28.34 | Maledictus | ljp which is a good thing for some vendors |
| 09:29.12 | tkooda | limo="first", openmoko="first", android-stories="first", heh |
| 09:29.51 | ljp | Maledictus: sure it, but not good for the open source community in general; |
| 09:30.05 | ljp | sure is, rather |
| 09:30.31 | Maledictus | Yeah, I'm also interested in the hw aspect. there is enough open source software out there, but fully documented hardware is rare. that's btw. the only interesting part with openmoko for me too, the neo |
| 09:30.43 | Maledictus | ljp I think you have no idea :) |
| 09:31.00 | tkooda | ljp, how do you think vendor lock-in will still be an issue if multiple manuf's support a common (android) api? |
| 09:31.10 | Maledictus | apache, X and BSD communities are very vital :) |
| 09:31.43 | *** join/#openmoko paguilar_ (n=paguilar@host184-76-static.106-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:31.45 | Maledictus | XorA: I didn't. Did I say anything like that? |
| 09:32.20 | XorA | Maledictus: 90% of time lack of hardware docs is due to the fact they really dont exist, its got nothing to do with OpenSource |
| 09:32.26 | Maledictus | tkooda, even with open source a vendor lockin is very easy |
| 09:32.35 | XorA | and I dont think android will fix that in anyway |
| 09:33.07 | Maledictus | XorA: for me it has something todo with openness in general, which I'm more interested in then the little part of it which is called open source |
| 09:33.44 | Maledictus | tkooda you have no idea |
| 09:33.48 | tkooda | mjr, aah.. that's the first good point (re: proprietary drivers) I've heard against android posibilities |
| 09:33.59 | tkooda | Maledictus, saying it dosn't make it true |
| 09:34.07 | XorA | same argument though, even people working on hardware normally have no docs, we make it up as we go along. Hence there is nothing to open |
| 09:34.26 | XorA | and on 6 months design cycles there is no time/money to document the stuff anyway |
| 09:35.02 | tkooda | ..unless the google alliance requires it for "compliance" |
| 09:35.41 | XorA | I doubt it, google is tiny and insignificant compared to the hardware companies |
| 09:35.41 | mjr | tkooda, notice "nvidia" there? :] |
| 09:35.58 | tkooda | mjr, heh |
| 09:36.06 | tkooda | point taken |
| 09:36.33 | tkooda | XorA, I disagree |
| 09:38.26 | raster | oh god |
| 09:38.29 | raster | not the google fluff |
| 09:38.37 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac04711.bb.sky.com) |
| 09:38.39 | mjr | raster, what did you expect? |
| 09:38.49 | raster | its all marketing fluff |
| 09:38.55 | guaqua | google fluff ^__^ |
| 09:39.04 | raster | throw in "linux" and "open source" buzzwords |
| 09:39.06 | XorA | yeah, google == evil == .com2 == blow up in face soon |
| 09:39.11 | raster | gets the press all excited |
| 09:39.14 | raster | because buzzwords do that |
| 09:39.18 | raster | but it lacks any substance |
| 09:39.23 | raster | until there is any substance |
| 09:39.27 | raster | ie technical details |
| 09:39.36 | XorA | we used to have a phrase for that, "Our product is buzzword compliant" |
| 09:39.49 | zash | haha |
| 09:39.56 | raster | (do they use X11? DFB? qtopia? their own FB based windowing system? is it a FB based wbe browser and all UI's are javascript/css monsters etc/?) |
| 09:40.00 | raster | whatever |
| 09:40.06 | raster | useless until we know whats inside |
| 09:40.13 | raster | fluff. |
| 09:40.14 | zash | hm |
| 09:40.20 | tkooda | raster, I was interested based on (IMHO) google's track record.. (even though the technical specs aren't out until the 12th) |
| 09:40.35 | zash | fb-browser and a localhost-server that does the phone-things |
| 09:40.45 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (i=5512ea02@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-eb1306b10de5cd19) |
| 09:40.56 | tkooda | I was presuming that google would be providing a decent api, even though I don't have technical details yet |
| 09:40.59 | raster | zash: technically possible |
| 09:41.07 | zash | POST /call {number=12345} |
| 09:41.11 | raster | zash: ugly and would make me just want to kill whoever created it |
| 09:41.16 | zash | cool but pointless |
| 09:41.16 | raster | in the most slow and painful way imaginable |
| 09:41.18 | raster | but possible |
| 09:42.12 | EsbenH | On the part of Google being tiny compared to hw vendors, I think you are very wrong. |
| 09:43.18 | EsbenH | Google is #1 in its market, and this market is quite interesting for mobile phone vendors. |
| 09:43.46 | raster | google is #1 in search and advertising in the WEST |
| 09:44.00 | raster | in anything else it's a distant non-event |
| 09:44.07 | raster | (pretty much) |
| 09:44.16 | EsbenH | yes, and this is a $$$$ market |
| 09:44.19 | raster | in china google is nothing |
| 09:44.31 | raster | in korea and even japan it holds a small percentage of the search/advert market |
| 09:44.35 | raster | yes |
| 09:44.45 | raster | and every year the us market goes up by 4% |
| 09:44.51 | EsbenH | if throwing free phones at people could earn G extra $$$$ they might just do that.... |
| 09:44.52 | raster | the chinese market expands by 20% |
| 09:44.55 | raster | justw ait |
| 09:45.01 | raster | they will overtake soon enough |
| 09:45.12 | raster | G has said nothing of free phones |
| 09:45.16 | raster | frankly i dont care about those |
| 09:45.21 | EsbenH | and if G believes the cheapest and best way to throw free phones at people is to go OSS, then they might just do that as well. |
| 09:45.21 | raster | i care what their OS stack is |
| 09:45.25 | raster | and why they think its so great |
| 09:45.41 | CM | zash: I've been thinking along those lines too, a bare os with a browser doing everything |
| 09:45.53 | raster | and they have not said a single thing that says "our stak is so much better than anyone elses" OTHER than having signed on a bunch of companies |
| 09:46.00 | CM | emdete: Was it you who wanted to do that on openmoko? :) |
| 09:46.09 | raster | oh god no |
| 09:46.15 | CM | Hehe |
| 09:46.15 | raster | the humanity |
| 09:46.23 | *** join/#openmoko mmontour (n=mmontour@S01060016b606e65a.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 09:46.31 | CM | I'm not saying I want it, just know it has been talked about |
| 09:46.34 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 09:46.46 | rwhitby | raster: have you seen the tribe stuff? |
| 09:46.46 | raster | ned to nip that one in the bud |
| 09:46.46 | raster | :) |
| 09:46.50 | raster | tribe? |
| 09:46.54 | CM | raster: Hehe, do that |
| 09:47.03 | raster | rwhitby: btw - i'm back in this corner of the world |
| 09:47.08 | raster | in cold wet and rainy sydney |
| 09:47.09 | raster | BOOOO |
| 09:47.13 | rwhitby | raster: http://www.tat.se/products/kastor-platform |
| 09:47.33 | rwhitby | one of the smaller companies in the android marketing release. rumour has it they they have done the UI stack |
| 09:48.04 | CM | Ah, interesting |
| 09:48.43 | ScaredyCat | rwhitby: they have the the ui or a ui for it? |
| 09:48.55 | raster | hmm |
| 09:48.58 | ScaredyCat | in other words is it an option, that costs money |
| 09:49.00 | raster | thats not too hard really |
| 09:49.12 | guaqua | all the interfaces i found from tat's website sucked :/ |
| 09:49.16 | raster | all the 2d stuff is already done in EFL |
| 09:49.22 | ScaredyCat | that's what you're here for raster :) |
| 09:49.29 | CM | rwhitby: Per Gustafsson was in the Android promo video, and he was one of the founders of TAT |
| 09:49.31 | raster | i wish |
| 09:49.49 | ScaredyCat | CM: that video is just bad. |
| 09:50.13 | CM | ScaredyCat: It sucks, but they aren't showing anything. Not even screenshots of Android |
| 09:50.26 | ScaredyCat | perzackly |
| 09:50.33 | ScaredyCat | vapourware |
| 09:50.35 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 09:50.48 | raster | i am waiting ith baited breath ... NOT |
| 09:51.05 | EsbenH | Android is so much top secret for G, but I have reasons to believe it is not vapourware. |
| 09:51.14 | raster | i sooooooo ned to do my "slipstream" ui idea for e |
| 09:51.29 | raster | might make a dent tonight |
| 09:54.23 | rwhitby | ScaredyCat: the tat rumour is so vague that I can't answer your question to me. |
| 09:54.25 | gi-el | http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/11/its-not-phone-its-alliance.html |
| 09:55.04 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 09:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-45-115.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:57.06 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 09:59.09 | rwhitby | gi-el: classic stuff |
| 10:00.57 | raster | its marketing FLUFF |
| 10:05.18 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@130.60.39.67) |
| 10:07.12 | torpor | whats up folks? |
| 10:07.34 | torpor | damnit are we still talking about fucking android? |
| 10:07.41 | torpor | fuck android. openmoko blows it away already |
| 10:07.46 | raster | fluff |
| 10:07.47 | CM | torpor: We're getting fluffed :P |
| 10:07.49 | hrw | fuck openmoko |
| 10:07.50 | cjb_ie | do openmokos dream of electric androids? |
| 10:08.03 | torpor | hrw: fuck fucking openmoko! |
| 10:08.08 | torpor | openmoko is rockin' |
| 10:08.17 | raster | fuck the fuckers |
| 10:08.25 | GNAM_ | do you now if android is DEB or RPM? |
| 10:08.27 | raster | bling-it-up? |
| 10:08.37 | GNAM_ | and what about openmoko? |
| 10:08.46 | torpor | http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~macslow/bling-it-up/ |
| 10:09.01 | hrw | torpor: make my gta01 recognize microsd card |
| 10:09.24 | tkooda | gnam, go do more reading on those topics. your questions are nonsensical |
| 10:09.33 | GNAM_ | lol |
| 10:09.35 | torpor | who cares about android? its vaporware people. write code for the machine in front of you. |
| 10:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 10:10.52 | *** join/#openmoko rEdcArp_yu (n=yyu@116.228.20.118) |
| 10:11.14 | torpor | macslow's demo apps are a good port to the neo, and would show it off quite nicely |
| 10:11.42 | CM | torpor: Doesn't it use glitz? |
| 10:11.52 | tkooda | torpor, my inquiry about android was because I don't* have a openmoko/android device "in front of me", and I'm contimplating waiting for an android-compliant device (After I see the specs) |
| 10:11.56 | raster | torpor: doesnt tell me much other than its one of macslows' nice demo gui app things |
| 10:11.56 | torpor | i'm rather fond of his usage of SVG in bling-it-up .. yes, there are some warts (hit testing for one, buffers for another) .. but until we get a decent scenelib that we can drop between cairo and SVG, its certainly proving to be a nice technique for fancy bling .. |
| 10:11.57 | raster | :) |
| 10:12.17 | torpor | CM: it doesn't use glitz if you tell it not to .. i've already turned off glitz usage, and it works fine without it .. |
| 10:12.22 | raster | torpor: htis need for OpenGL (glitz) will kill it on a neo. |
| 10:12.29 | raster | what does it use? |
| 10:12.32 | raster | xrender? |
| 10:12.33 | torpor | tkooda: why bother waiting? openmoko is a rockin'g platform. |
| 10:12.38 | raster | or he has a full software back-end of his own? |
| 10:12.59 | CM | Some svg viewer? |
| 10:12.59 | raster | tok end of 2008 apparently |
| 10:13.00 | cjb_ie | it sounds like it should be possible to put android on openmoko-compliant hardware, but not vice versa |
| 10:13.00 | torpor | raster: it does not need glitz. it can use it if its there, but it works just fine without it .. |
| 10:13.17 | raster | torpor: then what does it use instead of glitz? |
| 10:13.21 | CM | cjb_ie: Why not the other way around? |
| 10:13.22 | raster | thats my q |
| 10:13.24 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 10:13.36 | torpor | bling-it-up is a demo app (clock) tthat uses SVG to describe the GUI, and animates nodes of the SVG DOM as part of the GUI rendering.. its rather smooth but also hacky. and it runs fine on neo. |
| 10:13.52 | cjb_ie | CM: manufacturers will use customised androids with binary blobs for drivers |
| 10:14.09 | torpor | cairo_image_surface_create |
| 10:14.30 | cjb_ie | so unless you can get the blobs you're lost |
| 10:15.13 | CM | cjb_ie: Hmm.. True, but the devices should still boot a linux kernel, and reverse engineering is possible but painfully slow... |
| 10:15.13 | tkooda | torpor, "why wait?": 'cause I might like the large manufacturer's devices or google's api better than openmoko/neo |
| 10:15.13 | torpor | if there are suddenly a wealth of openmoko apps flooding the scene in the next few months, i don't think android is going to be as sexy. |
| 10:15.20 | torpor | tkooda: trust me, you're wasting time. |
| 10:15.37 | tkooda | torpor, I have no reason to "trust you" |
| 10:15.42 | torpor | this android announcement just proves how viable openmoko can be. |
| 10:15.54 | tkooda | that logic dosn't follow |
| 10:15.58 | cjb_ie | stop arguing and get back to developing ;-) |
| 10:15.58 | torpor | tkooda: other than the fact that i've been using the openmoko API to write apps? |
| 10:16.09 | tkooda | cjb, not arguing |
| 10:16.20 | torpor | yeah, what cjb_ie said. . . this isn't #android-fans or #vaporware-coders |
| 10:16.25 | raster | torpor: oooh uses CAIRO |
| 10:16.26 | raster | aha |
| 10:16.31 | torpor | raster: yes, lovely. |
| 10:16.52 | tkooda | torpor, the fact that you dev moko apps suggests that you could* be biased |
| 10:17.10 | torpor | i'm not sure of your position on CAIRO raster (i imagine you have one) but i've been using it for GUI's for the last few years and it does the trick fine for me .. |
| 10:17.28 | torpor | admittedly, i've been forked off on a rather badly hacked up libsvg-cairo to do scene manipulation, but hey .. |
| 10:17.28 | raster | cairo - api nice |
| 10:17.30 | raster | idea nice |
| 10:17.31 | raster | speed |
| 10:17.34 | raster | BLEH |
| 10:17.37 | CM | Hehe |
| 10:17.41 | torpor | speed: not as bad as you might think. |
| 10:17.47 | raster | indeed as bad as i think |
| 10:17.52 | raster | i have written a cairo engine for evas |
| 10:17.52 | torpor | oh |
| 10:17.53 | CM | raster: tell that to cworth.. ;) |
| 10:17.54 | torpor | okay then. |
| 10:18.06 | raster | 1/20th the framerate of evas's software eninge |
| 10:18.18 | torpor | rwhitby: i have been an openmoko fanboix since day one, man! why else do you think i feel fine bashing the wrinkles!! |
| 10:18.22 | raster | admittedly -p that may have improved |
| 10:18.24 | raster | :) |
| 10:18.27 | torpor | raster: but a hell of a lot more portable .. ;) |
| 10:18.35 | raster | torpor: more portable? |
| 10:18.49 | torpor | evas is quite portable? |
| 10:18.55 | torpor | <-- ignorant dweeb |
| 10:18.55 | raster | yes |
| 10:19.01 | torpor | can i put it on my gp2x? |
| 10:19.08 | torpor | or do i need X? |
| 10:19.08 | raster | yes |
| 10:19.11 | raster | no |
| 10:19.15 | torpor | run it through SDL buffers? |
| 10:19.22 | raster | it runs on anything thats 32bit - big or little endian |
| 10:19.33 | raster | arm, pcc, x86, etc. etc. etc. |
| 10:19.40 | raster | there is an SDL engine |
| 10:19.42 | raster | a software_x11 |
| 10:19.44 | torpor | well then that sounds like something i should look at when i'm done writing apps with cairo for prettiness .. |
| 10:19.44 | CM | rwhitby: And still you manage a distro? ;) |
| 10:19.45 | raster | xrender_x11 |
| 10:19.46 | raster | opengl |
| 10:19.53 | raster | framebuffer (raw software) |
| 10:19.54 | raster | directfb |
| 10:19.57 | torpor | ok then |
| 10:20.05 | rwhitby | CM: yes, but I know it's limitations too :-) |
| 10:20.07 | raster | ven a windows directdraw engine |
| 10:20.10 | torpor | point taken: investigate evas and listen more intently to raster. |
| 10:20.20 | torpor | wait, you do windows?!! |
| 10:20.26 | raster | renders to memory buffers |
| 10:20.34 | raster | a direct3d engine... |
| 10:20.43 | raster | evas is pretty portable |
| 10:20.50 | rwhitby | torpor: do you take an extreme view on everything in life? |
| 10:21.03 | raster | eva sis very DIFFERENT to cairo |
| 10:21.06 | torpor | to be honest raster, i've never been able to get my head around where things are with enlightenment and all that. i remember trying E out about 10 years ago and sorta getting a bit waylaid by the politics\ |
| 10:21.13 | CM | rwhitby: I'm imagining that's more fun than being too balanced.. ;) |
| 10:21.14 | raster | its not a vector engine |
| 10:21.14 | torpor | rwhitby: nope. |
| 10:21.17 | raster | its a canvas object system |
| 10:21.22 | raster | much more bitmappy |
| 10:21.46 | XorA | raster: quit with the advertising and release it :-D |
| 10:21.54 | torpor | i see .. well i'll scope it out. and now you're in openmoko land, what're you doing openmoko'ish wise? |
| 10:22.04 | CM | XorA: Hehe.. |
| 10:22.21 | torpor | is evas in the tree now, then? |
| 10:22.21 | raster | XorA: if people will quit sending me email |
| 10:22.38 | raster | and asking me to do other projects with controversial appeal... |
| 10:22.42 | XorA | just dont load mutt, then its like they never sent it :-D |
| 10:23.11 | raster | torpor: hmmmm that's a little undetermined. |
| 10:23.12 | torpor | rwhitby: there's nothing extreme about hating windows .. |
| 10:23.22 | raster | XorA: yeah- but i havent doe it for like 36hrs |
| 10:23.24 | raster | so i needed to |
| 10:23.35 | raster | torpor: i didnt do the windows engines. |
| 10:23.38 | rwhitby | torpor: there is something extreme about _hating_ anything |
| 10:23.40 | raster | other crazy gloots did those |
| 10:23.50 | raster | rwhitby: i hate hating. |
| 10:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko jptmoore (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 10:24.10 | guaqua | the offspring - cool to hate |
| 10:25.22 | CM | guaqua: offspring, first three albums were good ;) |
| 10:25.40 | torpor | rwhitby: nonsense. hate is just a shorter way of saying despise. |
| 10:25.53 | torpor | raster: you still in melbourne? |
| 10:26.08 | raster | torpor: smellie mellie? |
| 10:26.13 | raster | torpor: never was! |
| 10:26.13 | raster | :) |
| 10:26.17 | torpor | i thought you were .. |
| 10:26.24 | raster | sinnie |
| 10:26.27 | torpor | was a long time since we chatted .. i forget the details. |
| 10:26.29 | torpor | ah, sydney. |
| 10:26.38 | raster | well just back in sydney |
| 10:26.41 | raster | as of this morning |
| 10:26.55 | raster | took a nice rid from singapore to sydney on the A380 |
| 10:27.01 | torpor | cool! |
| 10:27.11 | raster | the A380 runs linux |
| 10:27.16 | torpor | heh heh .. |
| 10:27.17 | jeddy3 | raster, nice! |
| 10:27.28 | raster | and man is that thing HUGE |
| 10:27.29 | torpor | did you install E on any of the machiens? |
| 10:27.40 | torpor | i think the a380 is just a little too huge, frankly. its scarey huge. |
| 10:27.47 | raster | unfortunately its hugeness and linuxness have yet to solve the creaming baby problem |
| 10:27.53 | ljp | hope yougot the bed seat |
| 10:27.58 | raster | nah |
| 10:28.01 | raster | i'm no0t that rich |
| 10:28.07 | raster | hehehe |
| 10:28.12 | raster | just cattle class |
| 10:28.22 | torpor | so come on answer the question: what are you gonna do with openmoko? |
| 10:28.22 | XorA | install linux on baby, then issue poweroff command |
| 10:29.03 | ljp | ha |
| 10:29.28 | CM | XorA: Nah, just stop alsa ;) |
| 10:30.00 | ljp | back in oz, eh |
| 10:30.49 | raster | torpor: i don't know. |
| 10:31.00 | raster | i can tell you hat i WANT to do |
| 10:31.10 | raster | ljp: aye. back and stinky |
| 10:31.38 | raster | XorA: i personally was thinking of applying the sock patch |
| 10:31.47 | torpor | thats what i wanna hear |
| 10:31.54 | torpor | what do you want to do with openmoko raster? |
| 10:32.16 | XorA | raster: thats biological warfare, you end up in gitmo :-D |
| 10:32.27 | mbuf | hrw, uploaded extensions for Anjuta build, and sent e-mail to openmoko-devel; your friend could try it? |
| 10:34.06 | raster | ok |
| 10:34.06 | raster | wait |
| 10:34.09 | raster | writing mails |
| 10:34.20 | torpor | np, but do tell us! |
| 10:35.36 | raster | giv eme 10 mins |
| 10:35.43 | raster | girlfriend is demanding attention |
| 10:35.43 | torpor | ok |
| 10:35.54 | torpor | <- waiting patiently before i have to leave in 30 minutes .. |
| 10:35.55 | cjb_ie | 10 mins isn't a lot of gf attention ;-) |
| 10:36.24 | CM | cjb_ie: I wish mine was that quick.. :P |
| 10:37.02 | raster | she wants hr internude |
| 10:37.08 | raster | and i need to tell her what the network setup is |
| 10:38.07 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 10:38.48 | ljp | two very different years |
| 10:41.12 | ljp | errr EFL |
| 10:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-255-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 10:46.04 | torpor | okay i'm away, gotta go do stuff . . . hope you guys can catch me up on rasters plans in an hour or so .. |
| 10:46.19 | torpor | raster: hope someone gives you a gta02 .. |
| 10:46.22 | torpor | later. |
| 10:47.52 | XorA | nah, he wouldnt optimise as well on fast hardware :-D |
| 10:48.17 | Mek | especially fast hardware with a 3d accelarator :P |
| 10:48.32 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@newhost71-003.imm.dtu.dk) |
| 10:48.55 | raster | bah |
| 10:49.00 | raster | feckin wireless junk |
| 10:49.11 | mjr | Mek, bah, so either he'll optimize more or write the 3d driver, win/win |
| 10:49.21 | raster | torpor: i hve 2 gat02's |
| 10:49.23 | raster | have |
| 10:49.41 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:49.56 | raster | torpor: alive? |
| 10:50.50 | jeddy3 | raster, he just left :/...but we are still here =) |
| 10:50.59 | raster | oh |
| 10:51.03 | raster | you ant to hear too? |
| 10:51.22 | jeddy3 | raster, sure |
| 10:51.49 | flexd | i think i love this phone |
| 10:52.03 | flexd | i want it, i need it, gimmie gimmie gimmie |
| 10:52.14 | raster | flexd: neo? |
| 10:52.17 | flexd | yes |
| 10:52.21 | raster | hhehe |
| 10:52.30 | flexd | pity it doesnt have a camera though |
| 10:52.32 | raster | i hope you have seen the softare running? |
| 10:52.35 | flexd | then i'd be able to order two |
| 10:52.36 | flexd | I have |
| 10:52.42 | flexd | Hoping that improves *some* before i get one |
| 10:52.45 | raster | and you hve made a phone call? |
| 10:52.53 | raster | and managed to even hang up? |
| 10:52.55 | flexd | No, is the sound quality shit? :p |
| 10:52.58 | raster | ande then made a 2nd call after that? |
| 10:52.59 | raster | :) |
| 10:53.04 | flexd | i dont have a phone |
| 10:53.06 | flexd | <-- noob |
| 10:53.08 | raster | depends on the phone |
| 10:53.16 | flexd | im waiting for the end-user release |
| 10:53.26 | raster | right no the software is still uner a lot fo flux and needs work |
| 10:53.34 | raster | jeddy3: well basically i want OM to be sexy |
| 10:53.39 | flexd | that way i can fiddle and develop stuff all i want, and be able to call and stuff |
| 10:53.47 | raster | o want to make an ultra0sexy ui that makes even apple look borin and pedestrian |
| 10:53.50 | raster | boring |
| 10:53.55 | raster | and not by just out-blinging them |
| 10:53.58 | raster | then it just gets useless |
| 10:54.06 | raster | by literally being MORe usable |
| 10:54.13 | raster | i have a idea |
| 10:54.14 | CM | Multi-touch would have been sweet.. |
| 10:54.19 | *** part/#openmoko tkooda (i=goaway@box.lag.in) |
| 10:54.21 | flexd | i was thinking the same |
| 10:54.22 | raster | it ivolves a klot of sliding things about with your fingers |
| 10:54.36 | raster | swo your phone is more like a deck of cards you shuffle |
| 10:54.40 | raster | you shuffle cards around |
| 10:54.44 | raster | (up, down, left right) |
| 10:54.51 | flexd | aslong as it's not laggy i'm all for it :D |
| 10:54.53 | jeddy3 | raster, interesting! |
| 10:55.03 | raster | kind of a cross between cards, the ps3/psp ui |
| 10:55.10 | raster | and the dock |
| 10:55.14 | flexd | raster: it doesnt lag at all right? (the phone atm) |
| 10:55.18 | raster | of course it will be smooht ans sexy |
| 10:55.20 | flexd | or atleast not superlaggy? |
| 10:55.21 | raster | what do you think? |
| 10:55.28 | raster | i would do something laggy? |
| 10:55.35 | flexd | i have no idea who you are |
| 10:55.35 | raster | who do you take me for |
| 10:55.39 | CM | Hehe |
| 10:55.40 | flexd | so, maybe |
| 10:55.40 | raster | a gnome coder? |
| 10:55.41 | raster | :) |
| 10:55.56 | flexd | *cough* i like kde *cough* |
| 10:56.17 | flexd | no actually, gnome is really nice |
| 10:56.20 | raster | hehehehe |
| 10:56.22 | CM | flexd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasterman |
| 10:56.25 | flexd | I just dont use linux as a desktop machin |
| 10:56.26 | flexd | e |
| 10:56.30 | raster | ok |
| 10:56.32 | CM | ;) |
| 10:56.36 | raster | then u have no idea who i am |
| 10:56.37 | raster | :) |
| 10:56.52 | raster | one thing i DONT do is laggy slow ui;'s that look boring |
| 10:56.57 | raster | i care about performance |
| 10:57.05 | raster | i care a lot |
| 10:57.08 | flexd | good |
| 10:57.14 | flexd | i tried the emulator |
| 10:57.15 | raster | i have sunk a lot of my life into writing optimised gfx routines |
| 10:57.19 | flexd | and i suddenly felt the need to gouge myself. |
| 10:58.22 | Fatal | there's no use in fancy eyecandy if the user experience suffers, I don't understand why people pushes the eyecandy to sub 15fps performance. see it way too often on consumer products :/ |
| 10:58.24 | flexd | the ui and stuff was nice, and i know it's just the emulator being sucky, the phone looks great from videos |
| 10:58.44 | flexd | i just had horrid nightmares about the phone being that laggy |
| 10:58.50 | flexd | ^^ |
| 10:58.51 | CM | flexd: the speed in qemu is abysmal for sure |
| 10:59.02 | CM | It's much faster on the phone |
| 10:59.14 | flexd | good good |
| 10:59.43 | CM | (I have an amd64 3000+ for reference) |
| 10:59.58 | flexd | i have a 4000+, and a c2d laptop-something |
| 11:00.05 | flexd | both laggy like hell heh |
| 11:02.53 | flexd | enlightenment looks sweet anyway, hoping the phone will look the same :D |
| 11:04.00 | raster | Fatal: 15fps is fine - 10 is ok. its the 5fps or 2fps where you really suffer. |
| 11:04.08 | raster | Fatal: and not just fps - it's snappiness |
| 11:04.13 | Fatal | raster: aye |
| 11:04.15 | raster | i press - i expect it to react - immediately |
| 11:04.19 | raster | not 0.3 seconds later |
| 11:04.24 | raster | or 1 second later |
| 11:05.01 | Fatal | raster: the bestest thing with slow interfaces are the one that lack visual feedback, those I really love *dripdrip* |
| 11:05.13 | Fatal | s/one/ones/ |
| 11:05.20 | Fatal | doh |
| 11:05.21 | flexd | something that shows that's the phone is doing something |
| 11:05.22 | flexd | would be nice |
| 11:05.32 | flexd | and like help texts or something if you hoover items too :o |
| 11:05.52 | flexd | moving around on the emu, like in messages, you have really no idea what the diffrent buttons do :/ |
| 11:06.02 | CM | flexd: How do you hover a touch-scren? |
| 11:07.08 | raster | Fatal: i know what u mean :( |
| 11:08.27 | Mek | btw, decent wacom touhcpads do support hovering :P |
| 11:09.37 | CM | Mek: Yes, and angles of the pen too, that's cool :) |
| 11:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:11.01 | flexd | CM: good point |
| 11:11.07 | flexd | Well some kind of info |
| 11:11.18 | flexd | like labels or something, i found the current buttons a bit confusing |
| 11:11.23 | flexd | but then again i didnt read any manual either so |
| 11:11.41 | CM | flexd: Would a well documented homepage with screenshots be enough? |
| 11:12.15 | flexd | CM: essays, 5000 page inch by inch documentations! (or what you suggest) |
| 11:20.24 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 11:23.48 | flexd | but then again if i want documentation i might aswell write some myself if there's missing stuff when i get my phone, gotta learn how to do write proper documentation before my exams anyway |
| 11:24.14 | Mek | a help system integrated in the phone would be nice as well... I think qtopia has one.. :) |
| 11:26.22 | flexd | for maximum geeking |
| 11:26.29 | flexd | im gonna make my python ircbot run on the phone :D |
| 11:28.21 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07C511.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:36.52 | raster | i just want my phone to be so sexy womens cloths just fall off when they see it |
| 11:36.54 | raster | :) |
| 11:37.01 | raster | clothes |
| 11:38.38 | raynet | i thought that was the feature on the next release |
| 11:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 11:40.32 | flexd | raster: do that and i will worship you |
| 11:41.03 | flexd | doubt it will work, unless you hax the display into hypnotizing someone or something ;) |
| 11:41.11 | flexd | openvoodoo |
| 11:43.56 | Fatal | flexd: just use http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/99/FuturamaHypnotoad.gif/180px-FuturamaHypnotoad.gif as screensaver |
| 11:44.19 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-96-88.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 11:48.43 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADFB6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:51.27 | *** join/#openmoko vivi__ (n=vivi@200.184.118.132) |
| 11:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko paguilar (n=paguilar@217.194.179.242) |
| 11:53.08 | raster | flexd: i'll try! :) |
| 11:53.41 | CM | raster: btw, women in cloths falling off sounds ok too.. ;) |
| 11:56.25 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 11:57.16 | inz | Fatal, ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD |
| 11:58.24 | Fatal | :) |
| 11:58.31 | CM | I've always liked this one: http://www.makku.com/img/optical-illusion-wheels-circles-rotating.png |
| 11:59.56 | *** join/#openmoko TTT (n=Any@ip-87-86-105-3.easynet.co.uk) |
| 12:00.56 | TTT | hi, how usable curreny OpenMoko release is on GTA01? I mean, can you make calls with it? Can you send/receive SMS? How long does the battery last? |
| 12:01.10 | *** join/#openmoko edu (n=chatzill@r200-125-50-20-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 12:04.46 | CM | TTT: Usually calling works, sms doesn't yet because there's no program for it, battery doesn't last long at all |
| 12:05.23 | CM | TTT: But it's getting better all the time, so don't be afraid of ordering one if you like to tinker |
| 12:05.27 | TTT | ok, and did the EU certification issues get resolved yet? |
| 12:05.34 | CM | What issue? |
| 12:05.51 | TTT | I read somewhere on the page that it cannot be legaly sold in EU |
| 12:06.05 | TTT | not that I care :) |
| 12:06.14 | *** join/#openmoko d3 (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 12:07.07 | TTT | the thing is, i like to tinker, but I don't have too much time available for that. I would need a phone that supports SMS, Calls and battery that lasts at least 24h |
| 12:07.35 | TTT | and 350 USD (with shipping to London) doesn't seem too bad for a phone with linux inside |
| 12:07.54 | Mek | have you also included taxes in that price? :) |
| 12:08.03 | TTT | oh |
| 12:08.04 | TTT | :) |
| 12:08.23 | CM | Hmm.. I haven't heard anyone saying anything about it is illegal |
| 12:08.37 | CM | Also, I had to pay taxes for it too when importing it into EU |
| 12:08.55 | Mek | my advanced kit costed about 80 euros in taxes I think.. |
| 12:10.08 | CM | TTT: You might want to hold out for a GTA02 now though.. |
| 12:10.26 | TTT | I might, i don't need it right now, I was just |
| 12:10.29 | CM | I wonder if it will be available this year though... |
| 12:10.46 | TTT | well, i'll just keep OpenMoko in mind when I'm buying my next phone |
| 12:12.29 | TTT | thanks guys |
| 12:12.33 | CM | Btw |
| 12:12.40 | CM | TTT: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 12:12.51 | CM | Check in there every now and then to see how things are going.. :) |
| 12:13.29 | TTT | I will |
| 12:13.43 | TTT | btw, about Wifi on the phone, i suspect it will drain battery like hell... |
| 12:14.18 | CM | Probably some, but the screen and cpu is taking most still.. |
| 12:14.22 | hrw | TTT: there are chipsets which do not do that all time |
| 12:14.28 | *** join/#openmoko lsobral_ (n=sobral@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:14.44 | TTT | yeah, LCD backlights and CPUs are notorious for that... |
| 12:15.06 | DarkFoxDK[away] | limiting it to 802.11b (if possible) could cut down power use quite a bit.. |
| 12:15.39 | CM | The new Atheros chip looks really nice in regards to that (power) |
| 12:16.41 | TTT | what about linux support? Will madwifi run on it? With which HAL? |
| 12:17.09 | CM | TTT: "A GPL-licensed Linux driver for that chip is available, and has already been adopted by the OpenMoko project." |
| 12:17.20 | TTT | nice |
| 12:19.07 | *** join/#openmoko cb23 (n=cb25@dsl-245-131-250.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 12:20.39 | hrw | TTT: madwifi is for atheros 5k chips. gta02 use 6k chip |
| 12:21.11 | SpeedEvil | Can it do other than simple AP/client 'cooked' mode? (6k) |
| 12:21.28 | hrw | no idea |
| 12:21.40 | flexd | what's 'cooked' mode? |
| 12:22.23 | SpeedEvil | flexd: 'you have a packet from the ap' |
| 12:22.49 | SpeedEvil | versus (the option of) 'this is the raw packet that we recieved over the radio' |
| 12:23.26 | SpeedEvil | The second allows some more flexibility, without actually requiring everything to work to the nominal 802.11 protocol. |
| 12:23.27 | *** join/#openmoko oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B1073E8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:28.39 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-191-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:29.49 | *** join/#openmoko dread_ (n=markus@ip-141-31-178-166.selfnet.de) |
| 12:30.24 | flexd | SpeedEvil: ah |
| 12:31.14 | SpeedEvil | Not only for hacking purposes - but also ones like simple p2p protocols, and timed burst protocols, with the radio and CPU off most of the time. |
| 12:31.17 | flexd | Im sure i know what you mean, but just to make it even more basic; |
| 12:31.28 | flexd | there's a cookie here to you from bob |
| 12:31.28 | flexd | vs |
| 12:31.35 | flexd | someone delivered something at the door |
| 12:31.47 | flexd | sort of? ^^ |
| 12:32.00 | SpeedEvil | and you can in the second case examine all the packaging to see if it's been dented in transit |
| 12:32.06 | SpeedEvil | or ... |
| 12:32.59 | flexd | hmm maybe a bit advanced for me, but i get the general idea yeah |
| 12:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 12:35.09 | *** join/#openmoko jonibo (n=jonas@193.12.106.2) |
| 12:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko don (n=dons@24.147.104.33) |
| 12:38.43 | don | hey all |
| 12:38.54 | don | anyone home? |
| 12:39.16 | Mek | not right now... :P |
| 12:39.44 | don | just curious (I'm waiting for the consumer version) any thoughts on Android? |
| 12:40.10 | don | Is openmoko going to beat it to market? |
| 12:40.32 | *** join/#openmoko cclien (n=cclien@140.128.98.86) |
| 12:40.34 | don | on a phone I mean |
| 12:41.06 | hrw | XorA: chain him! |
| 12:42.39 | CM | don: There is a #android, but it's fairly quiet there. Wait a week and we'll see what it's all about :) |
| 12:42.56 | CM | Hehe |
| 12:43.09 | *** join/#openmoko jmichel (n=jmichel@modemcable135.172-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 12:43.30 | *** join/#openmoko dw (n=dw@unaffiliated/dw) |
| 12:43.55 | dw | hey there. i postponed purchasing an openmoko kit because i thought there was going to be a hardware refresh in october, but this doesn't appear to have happened. have i got my facts straight? |
| 12:44.51 | don | I'm not trying to upset anyone |
| 12:45.12 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:45.26 | don | just curious as to what impact this will have |
| 12:45.33 | don | if any |
| 12:45.39 | SpeedEvil | dw: delayed - look at topic |
| 12:46.36 | CM | don: We don't know yet, because this android gang doesn't say anything but fluff.. |
| 12:47.02 | don | ok |
| 12:47.44 | CM | dw: Also, look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 12:48.00 | dw | oh, doh. :) sorry |
| 12:51.32 | *** join/#openmoko PEETBOY999 (n=opera@edunet-static-57.87-197-6.telecom.sk) |
| 12:51.38 | *** part/#openmoko PEETBOY999 (n=opera@edunet-static-57.87-197-6.telecom.sk) |
| 12:58.16 | dw | thanks all |
| 12:58.17 | *** part/#openmoko dw (n=dw@unaffiliated/dw) |
| 12:58.30 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.83.100.52) |
| 13:04.39 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:09.00 | *** join/#openmoko techindian (n=karthik@125.130.84.214) |
| 13:09.44 | don | OK I have a question |
| 13:10.00 | don | I am reading about Android at pcworld |
| 13:10.01 | raster | no |
| 13:10.47 | don | I found this little tidbit |
| 13:10.47 | don | ignoring "no" |
| 13:10.47 | raster | :) |
| 13:10.47 | don | According to the Android open license agreement, anyone can modify the OS to suit their needs--including locking it down. |
| 13:11.08 | don | what about openmoko? |
| 13:11.46 | flexd | it's open |
| 13:12.09 | don | This article compares Android locking to the iPhone bricking and says "With an open platform driving all Android phones, hackers should whip up something for any locked-down Android device even more easily." |
| 13:12.22 | raster | don: openmoko isw open enouhg to become locked down |
| 13:12.26 | *** join/#openmoko bobesponja (n=bobespon@bas75-1-82-235-231-205.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:12.28 | raster | it just will take aq fair bit of work |
| 13:12.34 | raster | depends what you mean by locked down too |
| 13:12.49 | don | would it take that much? |
| 13:12.57 | raster | well |
| 13:13.00 | raster | what do you mean |
| 13:13.01 | don | just a new gui on top? |
| 13:13.02 | raster | Locked down" |
| 13:13.05 | raster | ? |
| 13:13.17 | don | Verizon writes their own stuff |
| 13:13.20 | *** join/#openmoko oelewapperke (n=oelewapp@85-158-215-1.powered-by.benesol.be) |
| 13:13.21 | *** join/#openmoko naikan (i=ai@85-158-213-129.powered-by.benesol.be) |
| 13:13.33 | CM | I'm guessing locked into their vm only |
| 13:13.35 | raster | depends |
| 13:13.48 | don | how hard would it be to write a gui and remove all access to features |
| 13:13.56 | don | they don't want you to use |
| 13:14.27 | don | Now it should be easy enough to "re-enable" them but the average user would be out of luck. |
| 13:14.30 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-30-71.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 13:15.44 | jeddy3 | raster, have you done any interesting OM work already, besides the blingy bootsplash thing? |
| 13:16.27 | don | I had to hack my cell phone to get my own pictures off and put ring tones on. |
| 13:19.49 | *** part/#openmoko techindian (n=karthik@125.130.84.214) |
| 13:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko burton__ (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-2-31.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:21.15 | torpor | raster: i'm with you on the slidey pointy fingery clothes drop-offery |
| 13:21.19 | torpor | as long as there is music as well. |
| 13:21.24 | torpor | can't have stripping without chunes. |
| 13:21.29 | torpor | and by that i mean CHOONS |
| 13:21.37 | torpor | so thats why i'm working on a mini-DAW application for the neo right now.. |
| 13:21.46 | torpor | which will be probably quite interesting once i get a gta02 in my hands |
| 13:21.54 | torpor | btw, if you've got one to spare raster, gimme. ;) |
| 13:22.01 | torpor | or anyone for that matter .. |
| 13:22.18 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1 (n=Selveste@85.235.243.199) |
| 13:22.47 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@81-208-31-222.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 13:22.48 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:22.53 | raster | jeddy3: bup |
| 13:23.32 | raster | torpor: sorry - no spares. engineering units. internal |
| 13:23.48 | torpor | i forget - you work for openhand now right? |
| 13:23.54 | ScaredyCat | it's nearly december anyway ... |
| 13:23.58 | ScaredyCat | *cough* |
| 13:24.00 | raster | no |
| 13:24.05 | raster | i work at openmoko |
| 13:24.06 | cb23 | ScaredyCat, indeed, christmas sooon |
| 13:24.12 | torpor | yeah ScaredyCat but i dont think we'll be able to order until january |
| 13:24.26 | torpor | oh raster: you work for openmoko? man i didn't realize that. don't i feel stupid. |
| 13:24.41 | torpor | i thought you were doing your own thing .. but now it all makes sense. |
| 13:24.43 | torpor | stupid drugs. |
| 13:24.46 | CM | torpor: Was a mail about it last week :) |
| 13:24.57 | torpor | i missed that |
| 13:25.06 | raster | torpor: jehehehe |
| 13:25.10 | raster | should take e's |
| 13:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@newhost71-003.imm.dtu.dk) |
| 13:25.15 | raster | makesz you clear |
| 13:25.15 | CM | me too, just picked it up when it was posted here |
| 13:25.16 | raster | sharp |
| 13:25.18 | raster | focused |
| 13:25.19 | torpor | no those are bad |
| 13:25.24 | raster | :) |
| 13:25.26 | jeddy3 | raster, bup? :) |
| 13:25.26 | raster | me |
| 13:25.29 | raster | i write me e |
| 13:25.30 | raster | :) |
| 13:25.34 | raster | my |
| 13:25.34 | CM | The community-list is noisy... |
| 13:25.38 | ScaredyCat | who will be able to afford one in January |
| 13:25.41 | torpor | is is |
| 13:25.46 | hrw | ~curse gsmd |
| 13:25.47 | apt | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, gsmd ! |
| 13:26.02 | CM | torpor: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-November/011355.html |
| 13:26.14 | torpor | ta |
| 13:26.45 | raster | apt: thats pretty polite hen it comes to gsmd |
| 13:26.50 | raster | you're being nice |
| 13:26.57 | raster | i think it will want to be friends |
| 13:27.00 | torpor | so if i release a killer app for openmoko what do you think my chances of employment would be like? |
| 13:27.13 | raster | torpor: 7 |
| 13:27.22 | ScaredyCat | zero - we're all moving to android |
| 13:27.28 | CM | ~lart gsmd for working like it should |
| 13:27.28 | apt | holds gsmd to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails for working like it should |
| 13:28.08 | ScaredyCat | put it this way torpor.... |
| 13:28.20 | torpor | ~curse ScaredyCat |
| 13:28.21 | apt | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ScaredyCat ! |
| 13:28.27 | torpor | hah! good one apt! |
| 13:28.34 | ScaredyCat | raster just drew some graphics on a screen.... got him a job :P |
| 13:28.59 | torpor | raster: 7 is good, i'll take 7 |
| 13:29.09 | torpor | okay back to course for me .. i'm away now. |
| 13:29.26 | ScaredyCat | CM: new exhaust this week... where's that replacement! |
| 13:29.42 | torpor | later |
| 13:29.44 | ScaredyCat | not bad though 191k km on 1 exhaust |
| 13:30.30 | CM | ScaredyCat: I'm busy retiring myself from here ;) |
| 13:31.30 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but AFTER I get my new car |
| 13:33.01 | ScaredyCat | ooo... |
| 13:33.02 | ScaredyCat | mmm |
| 13:35.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 994 has been created by ryuch(AT)yahoo.com |
| 13:35.02 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko-today2_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.OM-2007.2.applications_3287_.tar.gz |
| 13:35.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=994 |
| 13:40.02 | *** join/#openmoko oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B10710E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:41.06 | edu | hi, can someone comment about Gphone vs Neo1973? |
| 13:41.30 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44b520.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 13:42.27 | jeddy3 | xD |
| 13:44.26 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:45.10 | JohnMahowald | edu: Not really, as gphone doesn't exist. |
| 13:46.19 | edu | JohnMahowald: okay. But will impact the market as google is behind... Neo 1973 will compete? |
| 13:46.40 | JohnMahowald | You might compare Android vs. OpenMoko instead. |
| 13:47.23 | ScaredyCat | ... but since there's no real info on Android, that's a bit difficult... |
| 13:47.31 | ScaredyCat | need to wait until after the 12th |
| 13:50.05 | CM | I think the channel topic has to change to something like "There is no Android, don't even think about asking.." ;) |
| 13:50.26 | cjb_ie | so, red pill or blue pill...? |
| 13:50.46 | Stephmw | leave it to marketing.... |
| 13:50.52 | Stephmw | it's the bluered or redblue pill! |
| 13:51.17 | cjb_ie | and woe betide anyone who gets the wrong one |
| 13:51.32 | Ghiottone|work | the result is a purple pill, isn't it? |
| 13:51.47 | Stephmw | no, that's magenta, and trademarked by T-Mobile |
| 13:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko chacha_chaudhry (n=rakesh@gnu-india/supporter/rakeshpandit) |
| 13:52.26 | cjb_ie | whereas o2 have only trademarked oxygen, or any liquids with bubbles in |
| 13:52.38 | Stephmw | right |
| 13:52.40 | SpeedEvil | And breathign. |
| 13:54.07 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: that's patented under "Dioxygen / Carbon Dioxide transfer via mechanical areation" |
| 13:59.09 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 14:04.16 | jmichel | I'm trying to build the dev environment with MokoMakeFile and I have some errors |
| 14:05.50 | jmichel | I have run the sequence Make update-makefile setup update many times but it fails on package libxxf86dga-1.0.1 or xserver-kdrive-1.3.0.0 |
| 14:05.51 | ScaredyCat | cjb_ie: so every time you fart in a bath you have to pay royalties? |
| 14:06.27 | cjb_ie | presumably. |
| 14:07.37 | jmichel | when I make clean-package libxxf86dga I get errors on xserver-kdrive and when I make clean-package xserver-kdrive I get errors on libxxf86dga |
| 14:09.56 | Ghiottone|work | what errors? |
| 14:10.03 | jmichel | And before to reach this point (task 3402) I had to do the make update-makefile setup update clean-package openmoko-devel-image for like 6 or 7 failed packages |
| 14:11.01 | flexd | ScaredyCat: Wouldnt that be like a free hottub? |
| 14:11.16 | flexd | assuming you can keep the pressure up :p |
| 14:11.31 | ScaredyCat | that's a lot of beans |
| 14:12.17 | jmichel | The first error I can see is "xf86dga1.h:64: error: previous declaration of 'XF86DGAGetVideoLL' was here" |
| 14:12.41 | cjb_ie | flexd: not free if you have to pay o2 royalties... :( |
| 14:13.18 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-116-144.44-151.net24.it) |
| 14:15.46 | jmichel | What is the typical experience with MokoMakeFile, is it working for most of the users or there are problems? |
| 14:17.37 | CM | jmichel: That |
| 14:17.43 | CM | Sorry |
| 14:18.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 995 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com |
| 14:18.02 | cdbot2 | * * Moko theme has too small arrows in menu |
| 14:18.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=995 |
| 14:18.06 | CM | jmichel: I saw mickyl having some kdrive errors yesterday, but only on one of his machines |
| 14:18.33 | CM | There was some "ugly" way around it |
| 14:18.48 | gi-el | i had kdrive errors yesterday as well |
| 14:18.56 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:20.03 | CM | 00:27 <mickeyl> adding #define XID CARD32 in render.h fixes it |
| 14:20.34 | jmichel | gi-el: have you found a way around this poblem? |
| 14:20.47 | jmichel | CM: Ok I will try this out |
| 14:20.53 | jmichel | CM: thanks |
| 14:20.58 | gi-el | jmichel: no, i was too busy doing other stuff, so i'll just wait until it's gone :) |
| 14:21.13 | hrw | does someone know how to make openmoko-browser load page? |
| 14:21.15 | CM | jmichel: That's weird though, means something from the host is getting into the build |
| 14:21.25 | CM | hrw: Press the middle tab |
| 14:21.40 | CM | type in an address, then you have to "open in new window" |
| 14:21.48 | hrw | sick |
| 14:21.55 | jmichel | gi-el: Does it mean you don't have the problem anymore ? |
| 14:21.59 | CM | Yes, HIG-nightmare |
| 14:22.50 | hrw | and less then 50% of screen used |
| 14:22.58 | hrw | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/d3659b18a18d02c58614e7a0d6bc077b.png |
| 14:23.02 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 14:23.26 | CM | hrw: I think I measured 53.6% ;) |
| 14:24.13 | hrw | anyway too much too less |
| 14:24.52 | CM | Yes, and the fullscreen mode should really be full screen |
| 14:24.56 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim_ (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:25.53 | hrw | time to fill few wishlist bugs for it |
| 14:26.10 | hrw | zecke will hate me in worst situation |
| 14:26.51 | CM | hrw: Did koen enable the fingerscrolling? I haven't updated for 2 days |
| 14:27.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 996 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com |
| 14:27.02 | cdbot2 | * * Browser lack FullScreen button |
| 14:27.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=996 |
| 14:27.07 | CM | Would be nice to get rid of those scroll bars |
| 14:29.16 | hrw | o yes |
| 14:29.23 | flexd | I've read about the dimensions of the neo |
| 14:29.23 | flexd | but |
| 14:29.34 | hrw | flexd: want comparision? |
| 14:29.35 | flexd | you guys that have one, how "pocket friendly" is it? |
| 14:29.42 | flexd | i've got a w810i |
| 14:29.44 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:29.46 | flexd | obviously it's alot bigger |
| 14:29.51 | hrw | moment |
| 14:29.55 | flexd | but just wondering if it's even pocket-able :p |
| 14:30.09 | flexd | and what to do with the stylus and all, do you really need it with you at all times? |
| 14:30.10 | hrw | flexd: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/413643600/ |
| 14:30.21 | hrw | flexd: neo, k750i, nokia6210 |
| 14:30.25 | CM | flexd: It is, unless you're wearing really tight pants and want to have it in your back pocket ;) |
| 14:30.32 | flexd | oh |
| 14:30.35 | flexd | that's not so big |
| 14:33.27 | flexd | hrw: you made me want it even more now |
| 14:33.35 | ScaredyCat | belios.de needs a good kicking again |
| 14:33.52 | ScaredyCat | berlios even |
| 14:34.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 997 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com |
| 14:34.02 | cdbot2 | * * Keyboard does not popup when cursor is inside of form entry |
| 14:34.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=997 |
| 14:34.17 | flexd | ooh |
| 14:34.21 | flexd | i got a genious idea now |
| 14:34.29 | Stephmw | patent it! |
| 14:34.39 | flexd | it's sort of taken |
| 14:34.44 | flexd | but it'l be fun at the office |
| 14:35.02 | zash | the browser realy needs to be more space-efficent |
| 14:35.04 | flexd | setting up a office webcam stream, to see if people sneaks in here and all (we've had some problems with it) |
| 14:35.22 | flexd | then sit watching the live stream on the neo over wifi! D: |
| 14:35.34 | flexd | like a security camera heh |
| 14:36.05 | hrw | offtopic: can someone suggest GOOD spyware detector for windowsxp? |
| 14:36.08 | Stephmw | zash: have you seen Opera Mini? |
| 14:36.19 | flexd | hrw: spyware search and destroy + hijackthis |
| 14:36.29 | flexd | Stephmw: Opera mini is sort of nice |
| 14:36.37 | flexd | atleast v4+ |
| 14:36.42 | zash | Stephmw: yes but i dont rememer how it was |
| 14:36.47 | Stephmw | the latest beta is nice to use |
| 14:36.54 | hrw | flexd: url? |
| 14:36.56 | flexd | where you can zoom out on the page and all |
| 14:37.11 | flexd | http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/programs.php |
| 14:37.26 | flexd | http://www.safer-networking.org/ |
| 14:37.51 | flexd | first link is hijackthis, it's not really a spyware detector, but you can remove stuff from the startup and stuff easy :) |
| 14:39.03 | flexd | second is spyware s&d which removes alot of stuff |
| 14:39.26 | CM | flexd: adaware used to be good.. |
| 14:40.20 | Stephmw | CM: has it gotten bad? |
| 14:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:40.49 | CM | Stephmw: I don't know, haven't used it much lately besides cleaning my parents computer every time I visit |
| 14:41.16 | flexd | CM: adaware is good too |
| 14:41.21 | CM | hrw: Lavasoft's AdAware can be worth a look |
| 14:42.54 | zash | http://www.operamini.com/beta/simulator/ |
| 14:42.55 | zash | nice |
| 14:45.12 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host3-214-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:48.01 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 14:48.56 | jmichel | Still have problem with MokoMakeFile: package libxxf86dga-1_1.0.1-r1: task do_compile: failed |
| 14:48.58 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:51.13 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 14:51.21 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 14:52.29 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=vivek@59.176.111.177) |
| 14:53.21 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 14:53.35 | CM | raster left the channel, but still: http://osnews.com/story.php/18886/Rasterman-Speaks-Out-About-Enlightenment/ |
| 14:58.07 | hrw | CM: currently searc&destroy is searcing |
| 14:58.29 | GNAM_ | when neo1973 OUT? |
| 14:58.35 | jmichel | CM: The kdrive error is gone but I still have error in libxxf86dga |
| 14:58.39 | CM | I've never tried it, but heard good about it |
| 14:58.59 | CM | jmichel: I'll try to update and rebuild and see if I can get something |
| 14:59.10 | CM | jmichel: paste your error log in a pastebin |
| 14:59.32 | jmichel | CM: The error says "XF86DGA.c:105: error: conflicting types for 'XF86DGAGetVideoLL'" |
| 14:59.41 | jmichel | CM: what's a pastebin ? |
| 15:00.54 | CM | ~pastebn |
| 15:00.56 | CM | ~pastebin |
| 15:00.57 | apt | it has been said that pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 15:01.09 | CM | :) |
| 15:02.21 | *** join/#openmoko tobmaster (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com) |
| 15:02.42 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@208.118.160.90) |
| 15:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko burt0n (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-11-185.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:06.16 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) |
| 15:06.50 | *** join/#openmoko anders_ (i=andersg@0x63.nu) |
| 15:07.01 | CIA-13 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3363 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): |
| 15:07.01 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: |
| 15:07.01 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/appmanager-window.c: (main): |
| 15:07.01 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.c: |
| 15:07.01 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.h: |
| 15:07.03 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/tool-box.c: (on_upgrade_clicked), (tool_box_new): |
| 15:07.05 | CIA-13 | openmoko: Implement installing packages from toolbar button |
| 15:07.13 | jmichel | CM: Here is the output of MokoMakeFile starting where the failed task started: http://pastebin.ca/763515 |
| 15:08.18 | *** join/#openmoko cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132) |
| 15:09.06 | *** join/#openmoko notuniq (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 15:09.29 | CM | jmichel: Hmm.. Maybe you just have to rebuild that lib? |
| 15:10.02 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1 (n=Selveste@85.235.243.199) |
| 15:10.41 | CM | jmichel: Btw, I'm not an openmoko dev and don't know much about bitbake either. Try make rebuild-package-libxxf86dga |
| 15:15.03 | CM | jmichel: It builds here, NOTE: build 200711061602: completed |
| 15:17.57 | jmichel | CM: make rebuild-package didn't work so I'm currently running out of options |
| 15:18.15 | jmichel | CM: I'll try the develper mailing list |
| 15:18.28 | CM | jmichel: Also, look in bugzilla |
| 15:18.54 | CM | jmichel: could be in the openembedded bugzilla, since it's a kdrive/xorg-libs thing |
| 15:19.16 | CM | jmichel: http://bugs.openembedded.org/ |
| 15:21.19 | jmichel | CM: thanks for the help |
| 15:21.40 | CM | Wish i knew more ;) |
| 15:22.22 | *** join/#openmoko rcostine (n=rjc@74.95.177.193) |
| 15:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko univac_ (n=univac@suita.chopin.edu.pl) |
| 15:25.28 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 15:26.45 | Ghiottone|work | jmichel you could try removing any source file you could find in the sources directory (tar file, .lock, .md5) or in the svn or cvs directory under sources |
| 15:26.50 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@91.89.138.232) |
| 15:27.01 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:27.31 | Ghiottone|work | jmichel and then removing all the stampfiles relative to that package (they are in build/tmp/stamps/arm-something/package-name* |
| 15:29.31 | jmichel | Ghiottone|work: and then rebuild ? |
| 15:29.44 | *** join/#openmoko TheAndichrist (n=andy@user-0cdvhdk.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 15:30.15 | CM | Before, rebuilding from scratch usually solved those weird compile issues |
| 15:30.18 | Ghiottone|work | jmichel even the build should fetch the package again. and if it is a cvs/svn version, a newer one could be fetched |
| 15:30.22 | gi-el | i think -c rebuild also works |
| 15:30.26 | gi-el | bitbake -c rebuild packagename |
| 15:30.51 | CM | gi-el: yes, but then you have to be in the build folder and source ../setup-env ;) |
| 15:30.54 | Ghiottone|work | gi-el for it to work you have to do . /setup-env; cd build |
| 15:31.02 | Ghiottone|work | cm eheh :) |
| 15:31.07 | gi-el | well, yes :) |
| 15:31.19 | CM | gi-el: that make rebuild-package-%s is just for us lazy ones ;) |
| 15:32.10 | CIA-13 | openmoko: 03chris * r3364 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-worldclock2/ (ChangeLog src/worldclock-main.c): |
| 15:32.10 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/worldclock-main.c: (main): |
| 15:32.10 | CIA-13 | openmoko: Set the window title |
| 15:32.31 | CM | Ghiottone|work: I've realized I'm no longer the slowest typer like I used to be.. ;) |
| 15:32.46 | CM | abraxa_: :P |
| 15:33.57 | Ghiottone|work | CM eheh |
| 15:37.30 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DB73D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:38.11 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFE585.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:38.31 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 15:39.08 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:39.11 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkid` (n=sudharsh@59.92.44.36) |
| 15:39.37 | *** join/#openmoko burton__ (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-27-128.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:39.48 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 15:40.56 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=vivek@59.176.111.177) |
| 15:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 15:41.36 | *** join/#openmoko enjahova (n=enjahova@user85.freac.fsu.edu) |
| 15:41.47 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:44.13 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 15:44.50 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:48.10 | jmichel | Ghiottone|work: I tried removing all sources and stampfiles related to libxxf86 and the "make openmoko-devel-image" redownloded the sources but the build failed as usual |
| 15:49.32 | Ghiottone|work | jmichel did make build-package-libxxf86 have success? |
| 15:49.59 | jmichel | Ghiottone|work: no |
| 15:53.21 | jmichel | Ghiottone|work: the same error shows up when I "make rebuild-package-libxxf86dga-1.0.1" and when I "make openmoko-devel-image" |
| 15:54.29 | *** join/#openmoko |R (i=bob@modemcable241.28-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 15:54.52 | Ghiottone|work | jmichel then it's probably a source problem. applying the fix suggested before by CM did something? otherwise if it downloads from svn or cvs you could try |
| 15:55.20 | Ghiottone|work | jmichel to go in to the work dir and revert to a previous version and do a build-package command |
| 15:56.05 | CM | Ghiottone|work: It is a source problem, and the oe guys will look at it as soon as they get the time |
| 15:56.56 | jmichel | Ghiottone|work: The fix suggested by CM worked but it was for another error I had |
| 15:57.23 | jmichel | Ghiottone|work: I'll try to get a previous version |
| 15:57.56 | jmichel | By the way, since this morning, when I "make update" I get "svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused". Probably this url is down ? |
| 15:58.51 | CM | jmichel: Yes, berlios is down a lot |
| 15:59.28 | CM | jmichel: But also, as Ghiottone|work said, that "hack" in kdrive might mess up the libxxf86dga package |
| 15:59.47 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 15:59.48 | zecke | hrw: why should I hate you? |
| 16:00.43 | CM | zecke: Did you have time to look at that kdrive thing mickeyl mentioned yesterday? |
| 16:01.10 | CM | zecke: jmichel is having that problem too now, as well as a libxxf86dga thing.. |
| 16:01.57 | hrw | zecke: I started openmoko-browser |
| 16:02.20 | hrw | zecke: I can fill bugzilla with bugs for it (mainly wishlist ones) |
| 16:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 16:04.11 | zecke | hrw: sure go ahead, if you like pain read the UI descriptions and check if something you want to have is already there |
| 16:04.27 | *** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@190.24.93.152) |
| 16:05.16 | hrw | zecke: ;) |
| 16:05.27 | arw1 | :) |
| 16:06.29 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 16:08.48 | *** join/#openmoko Jiten (n=blight@a88-112-184-11.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:10.56 | nelson | I'm confused. I'm reading http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile and trying to follow the quilt instructions therein. |
| 16:11.38 | nelson | It *seems* to indicate that a patch file will be created in a place where it will be automatically appliedd. |
| 16:11.54 | nelson | However, when I rebuild the associated package, the patch isn't applied. |
| 16:12.08 | nelson | I'm missing some step in the magic spell. |
| 16:12.48 | nelson | (which is the problem with magic; when the magic fails, people are left not understanding the science behind the magic) |
| 16:15.11 | nelson | Oh! Following wrong magic instructions. Back to work! |
| 16:20.01 | |R | Interesting, the Apache v2 License is compatible with GPLv3... |
| 16:20.20 | CM | |R: Noticed that ars article too.. ;) |
| 16:21.00 | CM | Also interesting: http://chrislord.net/blog/Software/multitap-pad.enlighten |
| 16:21.03 | |R | CM: hehe:) |
| 16:21.56 | torpor | yo |
| 16:23.51 | nelson | |R: the Apache folks (and several lawyers) believe Apache v2 is compatible with the GPLv2. |
| 16:23.58 | CM | |R: I'd say it's a bit naive to think those companies listed would share any code at all unless they are forecd to. |
| 16:24.07 | |R | CM: agreed :| |
| 16:24.13 | |R | i don't get the whole point |
| 16:24.47 | CM | |R: I think it's a compromize from google, just like he wrote (ars) |
| 16:25.23 | CM | It would be impossible to get all those companies to sign up otherwise |
| 16:25.36 | |R | yeah, it sure it is, but for me it sounds like a compromise for which the result is having nothing new |
| 16:26.51 | torpor | so what did raster have to say about what hes gonna be doing? |
| 16:26.57 | |R | aside from all of them respecting APIs in their own corners of the world... i really don't understand at this point |
| 16:26.59 | torpor | some sorta flippy interface or something? |
| 16:27.16 | nelson | flexd: the neo is quite pocketable. |
| 16:27.39 | CM | torpor: Yes, he mumbled something about a deck of cards |
| 16:27.52 | CM | that you flick around with your fingers :) |
| 16:27.56 | torpor | i see. |
| 16:27.59 | torpor | dreamy |
| 16:30.59 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 16:32.26 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@32.169.132.113) |
| 16:33.12 | *** join/#openmoko Jiten (n=blight@a88-112-184-11.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:33.55 | dread | hi |
| 16:34.00 | torpor | yo |
| 16:34.46 | dread | is there some information, somewhere, about the sms/mms software that will become part of openmoko? |
| 16:35.14 | torpor | dread: the only info is that someone is working on it. |
| 16:35.55 | dread | so, "they" are working on it as an internal project that will be release at some point? |
| 16:36.16 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-7db447702e31729f) |
| 16:36.28 | CM | dread: I'm not sure the development has even started yet |
| 16:36.41 | CM | but when it is, it will be in the open of course :) |
| 16:37.14 | CM | The rumours, afaik, is that it will use eds-dbus, just like the mail program |
| 16:37.42 | Writchie | dread: OM developers have gone on record that they will never support MMS |
| 16:37.44 | CM | I most definitely want to store all my sms', they barely take any space anyway |
| 16:38.15 | dread | :-) okay. sounds interesting. did they say why mms is not suported? |
| 16:38.40 | CM | I think they complained about the specs being incomplete or so |
| 16:38.49 | Writchie | they consider it evil consipiracy of carriers to make you pay for something you don't need |
| 16:38.59 | CM | Hehe |
| 16:39.11 | CM | Writchie: Mail it over gprs instead :) |
| 16:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=vivek@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:39.35 | torpor | thats what i'm thinking. |
| 16:39.42 | torpor | like, voice recorder capabilities too .. |
| 16:39.46 | dread | *g ... yes, but sendingpictures is nice...for some people ;) i just tried qtopia yesterday, it's messaging capabilities are basic but useable :) |
| 16:40.05 | Writchie | MMS often free where you have unlimited gprs |
| 16:40.29 | dread | isn't mms basically operated via gprs? |
| 16:41.04 | CM | dread: As i get it, it's an sms and then using gprs to send the data |
| 16:41.05 | Writchie | mms basically sends url as sms and then retrieves message from wap server |
| 16:41.34 | CM | Writchie: You know better, and phrace it more nicely, so I'll just be quiet :) |
| 16:42.37 | Writchie | it will no doubt be supported on some open stack |
| 16:44.02 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADFB6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:44.24 | dread | okay, thanks :-) |
| 16:45.21 | dread | i'm loking forward to see the messaging component coming up :) that might be the point where neo could become a daily-use phone...+ |
| 16:45.49 | CM | dread: That and powermanagement :) |
| 16:46.17 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 16:46.31 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 16:46.38 | Writchie | stable PM is most important for now - basis SMS second. |
| 16:47.27 | CM | pavelm did have some commandline sms-tool I think :) |
| 16:49.14 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 16:49.14 | dread | yes, but as far as i got it, it's only possible to send sms - not to recieve them |
| 16:50.15 | CIA-13 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3365 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 16:50.15 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/appmanager-data.h: |
| 16:50.15 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.c: (progress_bar_pulse), (install_thread_func), |
| 16:50.15 | CIA-13 | openmoko: (run_func_with_gui): |
| 16:50.15 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/ipkg-utils.h: |
| 16:50.17 | CIA-13 | openmoko: * src/navigation-area.c: (navigation_area_new), |
| 16:50.21 | CIA-13 | openmoko: (navigation_area_refresh_with_package_list): |
| 16:50.43 | *** join/#openmoko thomasgruebler (n=thomasgr@85-124-167-249.work.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 16:55.07 | nelson | CM: power management is hard. |
| 16:55.33 | cb23 | like a rock |
| 16:56.24 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@68-120-110-67.ded.pacbell.net) |
| 17:01.45 | Sup3rkiddo | i tried sending sms, works sort of...crashes gsmd though..really clunky...libgsmd-tool could be used to read sms if you are lucky.. |
| 17:04.55 | awesomo4000 | is there any partnership between openmoko and the 'open handset alliance' (google's thing) ? |
| 17:06.05 | Sup3rkiddo | dont think so...although there were rumours some time back iirc |
| 17:06.23 | awesomo4000 | i wonder if their kernel will be completely open |
| 17:06.51 | CM | It has to be, but the drivers don't.. |
| 17:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko gnu (n=gnu@quiet.toad.com) |
| 17:07.32 | awesomo4000 | hmm... no gsmd or gpsd then ? drat. |
| 17:07.35 | *** join/#openmoko nasum (n=nasum@c-67-180-178-33.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:11.30 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com) |
| 17:15.06 | *** join/#openmoko smartbhai (n=smartbha@116.68.99.173) |
| 17:16.36 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@cpe-071-077-055-135.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 17:19.04 | *** join/#openmoko harzi (n=dani@84-73-142-90.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:23.21 | *** join/#openmoko Schmidt_ (n=extintor@c-9fc872d5.036-13-73746f36.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:26.42 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 17:28.23 | *** join/#openmoko Schmidt__ (n=extintor@c-a2c872d5.036-13-73746f36.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:28.40 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 17:30.27 | abraxa_ | CM, you evil highlighter :( |
| 17:30.58 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@75.144.175.202) |
| 17:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 17:33.24 | *** join/#openmoko Schmidt_1 (n=extintor@c-a3c872d5.036-13-73746f36.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:35.43 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 17:44.35 | *** join/#openmoko ww (n=ww@river.styx.org) |
| 17:45.29 | ww | help w/ moko touchscreen? |
| 17:45.32 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 17:45.50 | ww | x-y coordinates not making it to neod |
| 17:46.10 | *** part/#openmoko jptmoore (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 17:46.10 | ww | calibration program always shows same values no matter where screen is poked |
| 17:46.37 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=vivek@59.176.111.177) |
| 17:46.51 | abraxa_ | ww: Sounds like a hardware issue to me |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-191-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko inz (i=inz@maemo-hackers.org) |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko shenki|crank (n=joel@crank.laptop.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko XXLT (n=XXLT@herkules.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@dhcp-077-251-029-148.chello.nl) |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko avihavai (n=avihavai@myntti.helsinki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko sannes (i=ace@har.sagt.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko Kliment (n=yanev@host-62-220-235-76.fonet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko guaqua (i=che@lakka.kapsi.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko aevin (n=brootvor@unaffiliated/aevin) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (n=mad@woota.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko Basheri (i=basher@evot.us) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko meus (n=bjartka@kremt.pvv.ntnu.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko sandos (n=sandos@83.233.97.210) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko glledo (n=gellevi@208.72.153.130) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko rhelmer (n=rhelmer@people.mozilla.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko LeRrA (n=lerra@h-91-126-56-52.wholesale.rp80.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko roh (n=roh@yamato.hyte.de) |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko death-row (n=pierre@217.20.125.101) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko mudyc (n=mudyc@ip.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko keithp (n=keithp@home.keithp.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko rabble (n=evan@protest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko ag (n=ag@fedaykin.roxor.cx) |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko high-rez (n=gus@carrera.bourg.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko shawnlower (n=shawn@71.94.76.240) |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=nnnnnnnc@cdann.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko blinx (n=blinx@unixboard/user/blinx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko blindcoder (n=blindcod@pallas.crash-override.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko felipe` (n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko jorgenpt (i=jorgenpt@wacky.idi.ntnu.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko rxr (n=rene@port-212-202-41-74.dynamic.qsc.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko RP (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko tuukkah (i=tuukka@tuukka.iki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko massoud (n=massoud@86.69.158.104) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko _ts (n=pinhead@stdin.stderror.at) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko rep (n=rep@work.etcho.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko [PI]Sami (n=sami@a9b.pirttimaki.jyu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko Xx13 (n=averkhov@office.enkora.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@li9-26.members.linode.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko sbeh (i=sbeh@serverstaff.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko nab_ (n=nab@64-172-115-2.ded.pacbell.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko xaid (n=zaid@S0106000c6ef3cb4e.ed.shawcable.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko neax (n=newdle@203-114-176-86.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-13 (i=cia@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jaebird@unaffiliated/jaebird) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis__ (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.177) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko niclone (n=nicod@blurp.yi.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@58.167.193.112) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe3cdd00-15.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko dwmw2_gone (i=ctrlprox@baythorne.infradead.org) |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko E78C8EE4BABA (n=hunter@shell.icgroup.com) |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko schonstal (n=schonsta@osuosl/staff/schonstal) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-84-70.dynamic.mnet-online.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko doron (n=Ofek@bzq-79-177-145-132.red.bezeqint.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-255-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko don (n=dons@24.147.104.33) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko bobesponja (n=bobespon@bas75-1-82-235-231-205.fbx.proxad.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.0.fullrate.dk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko anders_ (i=andersg@xmms2/developer/anders) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko hrw|gone (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@x-net.hu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko mib_force (i=mib_forc@2001:1638:17a5:0:0:0:0:20) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-79-14.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko Hadaka (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko ww (n=ww@river.styx.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko unarzna_ (i=hk69690@node1.cluster.cs.uta.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@a88-112-31-228.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko gw280 (n=george@vm.gwright.org.uk) |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko mjr (i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko Rakshasa (i=pkorva@apollo.sigmatic.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko Tm_T (i=tm_travo@kde/developer/jkekkonen) |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko CM (i=cm@shaka.acc.umu.se) |
| 17:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@annarchy.freedesktop.org) |
| 17:52.36 | *** join/#openmoko nslu2-log_ (n=nslu2-lo@nslu2-linux/dyoung) |
| 17:55.04 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@76.209.220.8) |
| 17:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko bluemaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.231.53) |
| 17:56.00 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 17:56.40 | CM | abraxa_: Hehe |
| 17:58.08 | abraxa_ | CM: Did you want anything in particular? :O |
| 17:58.24 | CM | abraxa_: Nope, sorry to bother |
| 17:58.45 | CM | Just replied to that evil highlighter comment ;) |
| 17:58.49 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 17:58.53 | abraxa_ | oh, lol |
| 17:58.59 | abraxa_ | Nah, no bother ;p |
| 17:59.38 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@port-87-234-156-108.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 18:01.29 | flexd | sort of late but (from earlier): I really dont see why OM should support mms, it supports email, and wifi with gta02 on the neo, that's 10x better. Nobody really sends mms anymore do they? |
| 18:01.51 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178236067.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:02.46 | cjb_ie | mms is just an SMS with a URL in it anyway innit? |
| 18:03.43 | CM | yes |
| 18:04.00 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 18:05.20 | mjr | It should support MMS to interoperate. I don't care for it personally, and quite understand why it's not a priority, though. |
| 18:05.28 | cjb_ie | flexd: whatever other functionality is available to them, people like thinking they're receiving picture messages. |
| 18:06.19 | cjb_ie | also, as mjr says - there are people who may not have email or web client on their phone, that nevertheless can send and receive MMS, with whom it would be helpful to interoperate |
| 18:08.10 | CM | abraxa_: Well, maybe one thing ;) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 |
| 18:08.40 | abraxa_ | lol thanks |
| 18:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie|lunch (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 18:15.47 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:18.24 | *** join/#openmoko _diego_a1ay (n=diego@host-84-222-2-240.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:21.51 | *** part/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:26.34 | *** join/#openmoko Edulix (n=edulix@247.Red-88-27-104.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:26.43 | Edulix | hi |
| 18:27.27 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-4c55bc86d520d90a) |
| 18:27.27 | Edulix | does openmoko have anything to do with google's android, and if not.. have they contacted the openmoko comunnity at all? |
| 18:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkid` (n=sudharsh@59.92.43.208) |
| 18:28.26 | *** join/#openmoko moo_tang_clan (n=nmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 18:29.04 | abraxa_ | Edulix: I suggest you don't bring up Android anymore |
| 18:29.05 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkid` (n=sudharsh@59.92.43.208) |
| 18:29.15 | abraxa_ | Most people here are bound to be sick of it by now ;) |
| 18:29.41 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p54AF70F9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:29.48 | abraxa_ | The general consensus is has no impact on OpenMoko at all and is nothing substantial until proven otherwise |
| 18:30.02 | Edulix | abraxa_: ok |
| 18:30.03 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-126-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:30.17 | Sup3rkid` | zecke: hey, heard you are coming to foss.in, looking forward to have a chat with ya =) |
| 18:30.25 | Edulix | abraxa_: thanks for answering ;) |
| 18:30.34 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-088-064-170-039.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:30.44 | abraxa_ | Edulix: You're welcome, and I guess we really should put it into the topic |
| 18:31.07 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 18:31.27 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p54AF70F9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:34.05 | *** topic/#openmoko by abraxa_ -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update - yes, that's with WiFi, and no, there's no cam). Latest official update is at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates - Also, don't bring up Android for your own safety, thanks |
| 18:34.55 | Sup3rkid` | any news about android |
| 18:34.58 | Sup3rkid` | :P |
| 18:35.35 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472_ (i=8472@dslb-084-057-234-056.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:35.49 | anrp | the topic, eh |
| 18:35.52 | anrp | noone reads the topic :/ |
| 18:35.57 | *** join/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:36.33 | Sup3rkiddo | anrp: i was testing about safety on irc on purpose..i have a gigantic ego |
| 18:36.39 | Sup3rkiddo | :P |
| 18:36.42 | anrp | >:o |
| 18:37.09 | cb23 | hmm... now what was that command to get apt to do mean and evil things again... |
| 18:37.18 | Sup3rkiddo | ~lart cb23 |
| 18:37.18 | apt | forces cb23 to use Outlook Express |
| 18:37.21 | Sup3rkiddo | there |
| 18:37.25 | cb23 | eww |
| 18:37.29 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: sure :) |
| 18:37.44 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z7a6f.z.pppool.de) |
| 18:37.49 | Sup3rkiddo | :) |
| 18:38.00 | CM | ~fish Sup3rkiddo |
| 18:38.09 | apt | ACTION slaps Sup3rkiddo around with a large trout |
| 18:38.18 | Sup3rkiddo | mmm...trout |
| 18:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:39.08 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 18:39.18 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwin@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 18:42.18 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@75.144.175.202) |
| 18:43.16 | ljp | we are android. resistence is futile. prepare to be assimilated |
| 18:45.18 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: The 2010 version of smurfing? ;) |
| 18:45.38 | Sup3rkiddo | bah |
| 18:47.25 | anrp | to compete with starbucks |
| 18:47.26 | *** join/#openmoko bluemaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.231.53) |
| 18:47.27 | abraxa_ | Not *once* did my sandwich look as nice as those on display |
| 18:47.28 | anrp | and t3h barista |
| 18:47.36 | anrp | (r?) |
| 18:47.57 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953A561.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:48.16 | abraxa_ | Yeah |
| 18:56.18 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 18:57.08 | *** join/#openmoko orino (n=orino@84-74-193-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:57.32 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 18:58.26 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 18:59.06 | *** join/#openmoko jkilb_ (n=jkilb@p5B2080A7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:59.37 | *** join/#openmoko tuxmaniac (n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac) |
| 18:59.43 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_moo (n=moo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 19:00.07 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 19:00.35 | tuxmaniac | hehe nice topic |
| 19:00.54 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 19:02.57 | Edulix | BTW I know it's futile, but I have sent an email asking for information to google about why they didn't join android. I don't expect to get much (if any) from it, but I sent it anyway |
| 19:04.04 | cjb_ie | Edulix: er... huh? |
| 19:04.15 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-490d57c85f16633d) |
| 19:04.22 | Edulix | uhm |
| 19:04.26 | abraxa_ | Edulix: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21637990/ ;) |
| 19:04.28 | Edulix | s/android/openmoko/g |
| 19:04.57 | abraxa_ | Ah |
| 19:05.00 | Edulix | :P |
| 19:05.17 | abraxa_ | Cause google wants to make money |
| 19:05.20 | Edulix | you know, sometimes I have these lapsus |
| 19:05.36 | abraxa_ | Meaning they don't want a totally open OS like OpenMoko is |
| 19:05.39 | Edulix | abraxa_: well, only 10% of google developments see the light.. |
| 19:06.53 | don | edulix: what do you mean google didn't join android? |
| 19:07.07 | abraxa_ | don: Typo ;) |
| 19:07.15 | Edulix | don: mental typo xD |
| 19:07.23 | Edulix | BTW I know it's futile, but I have sent an email asking for information to google about why they didn't join openmoko. I don't expect to get much (if any) from it, but I sent it anyway |
| 19:07.28 | Edulix | that's what I meant |
| 19:07.59 | *** join/#openmoko amir1641 (n=Miranda@80.238.134.134) |
| 19:08.02 | don | well from my laymen standpoint this is a win win. |
| 19:08.21 | don | Google puts all their money behind an open cellphone OS |
| 19:08.50 | don | you should be able to buy any phone that supports android and load openmoko correct? |
| 19:08.57 | abraxa_ | Nope |
| 19:09.09 | don | any reason? |
| 19:09.27 | abraxa_ | The operators can lock the phones down as much a they want to, and they will |
| 19:09.29 | guaqua | there's no reason why we'd be able to run openmoko any easier on any android playform |
| 19:09.30 | don | if Android is open they are going to have to use open drivers |
| 19:09.35 | guaqua | no |
| 19:09.44 | guaqua | they can use as much proprietary stuff as they want |
| 19:09.52 | don | open kernel closed drivers? |
| 19:09.58 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-62-216-203-245.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:10.02 | abraxa_ | ...and because of the Apache 2 license they don't have to return anything to the OSS community |
| 19:10.02 | Edulix | don: ask yourself this question: why google didn't join openmoko? |
| 19:10.30 | don | honestly? |
| 19:10.33 | Edulix | don: abraxa_ ahs already given what I belive is the most reasonable reason: they don't want to be as open as openmoko is |
| 19:10.43 | don | they couldn't control it. |
| 19:11.05 | Edulix | exactly |
| 19:11.16 | don | obviously, they won't be as open but that doesn't mean you all can't make it open |
| 19:11.57 | don | I see apps for openmoko running well on both platforms |
| 19:11.59 | cjb_ie | essentially it'll be possible to put android on an openmoko phone but probably not the other way around |
| 19:12.14 | *** join/#openmoko nasum (n=nasum@c-67-180-178-33.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 19:12.25 | cjb_ie | don: bit premature to say that knowing nothing about android's API |
| 19:12.26 | don | Time will tell |
| 19:12.33 | don | True |
| 19:12.42 | Writchie|lunch | the "apps" on the google phone are likely to have to run on the VM |
| 19:12.55 | Writchie|lunch | except the "apps" put in by the phone mfg |
| 19:13.00 | Writchie|lunch | or carrier |
| 19:13.03 | Writchie|lunch | or google |
| 19:13.15 | don | I just figure if openmoko is a hit and gets launched before some of the gPhones it will be a big advantage to make it more open. |
| 19:13.48 | don | I don't think google want to preload a bunch of apps |
| 19:14.05 | don | they want you to use their calendar, docs, gmail etc. |
| 19:14.30 | don | that means a full html browser that supports flash so you can watch their video. |
| 19:15.31 | don | if that is their goal then all they have to preload is some bookmarks. |
| 19:16.09 | anrp | and a wallet full of cash to pay for the data :p |
| 19:16.30 | don | WifI |
| 19:16.40 | don | and better pricing plans |
| 19:17.14 | don | That's why At&t and Verizon have already said they won't sell the phones |
| 19:17.15 | *** part/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 19:17.59 | don | they don't want any open phones. Everything needs to be locked down and you have to use their apps. |
| 19:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 19:21.25 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p549527EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:25.11 | peepsalot | are there efforts to get parrot running on openmoko? |
| 19:26.07 | CM | It doesn't even seem to be in oe, but I've heard it mentioned before |
| 19:27.15 | peepsalot | i remember a discussion on the OM mailing lists months ago, people arguing over what would be THE scripting language for openmoko |
| 19:27.48 | peepsalot | seems like it's not necessary to narrow it down to one |
| 19:28.53 | ozarka | Cool. Let's have a language war. |
| 19:29.00 | ozarka | Python is for savages. |
| 19:29.06 | ewon | heh |
| 19:29.08 | ewon | agreed |
| 19:30.24 | ozarka | ewon: That's not how you fight a war. |
| 19:31.06 | don | everyone knows perl is the best. |
| 19:31.29 | drath | scripting languages? *cough* ;) |
| 19:32.34 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A541A1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:35.15 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FE456.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:36.21 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADFB6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:36.32 | don | how about DOS batch programing? |
| 19:36.49 | ewon | jesus wept |
| 19:37.04 | don | At least I'm trying to get the war started! |
| 19:39.00 | peepsalot | parrot is all about peace and love baby! |
| 19:40.51 | peepsalot | Imagine all the programming languages, living life in peace. |
| 19:41.17 | peepsalot | you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one |
| 19:44.03 | ozarka | Thanks for the effort, don. |
| 19:44.29 | ozarka | But I don't think this channel is contentious enough. |
| 19:44.53 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 19:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko fisxoj (i=fisxoj@149.43.108.17) |
| 19:44.58 | ozarka | I think I'll wander over to ##c, where are the angry people live. |
| 19:46.13 | CM | I see you hang out in #j2me, should be full of frustration too ;) |
| 19:47.05 | *** part/#openmoko fisxoj (i=fisxoj@149.43.108.17) |
| 19:47.43 | peepsalot | ##java tends to be a bit ornery IME |
| 19:47.52 | ozarka | #j2me is always very polite. |
| 19:48.08 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 19:48.09 | ozarka | Not enough of us to be angry. :-) |
| 19:48.23 | Stephmw | anyway, the anger is at manufacturers mostly :) |
| 19:48.49 | ozarka | ##java is a lot like ##c, people complaining about newbie questions. |
| 19:49.17 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host59-61-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:49.18 | ewon | heh, j2me |
| 19:49.19 | ozarka | Don't ask questions until you read all the books and have seven years of experience as a programmer. |
| 19:49.21 | ewon | god I hate it |
| 19:50.03 | ozarka | ewon: More than DOS batch programming? |
| 19:50.39 | peepsalot | vb 4 life! |
| 19:51.00 | buz | forth all the way |
| 19:51.17 | abraxa__ | peepsalot: You're doing it wrong. Slit Bill's. |
| 19:51.45 | CM | peepsalot: VBA is worse than VB.. |
| 19:51.45 | abraxa__ | Or even better, slit Ballmer's. |
| 19:51.56 | CM | And APL beats everything, guaranteed |
| 19:52.15 | buz | whitespace, on paper. |
| 19:52.19 | buz | hah beat that |
| 19:52.22 | ewon | heh |
| 19:52.28 | peepsalot | CM i've dabbled in both. used to have to write reports. Using the Access of Evil |
| 19:52.42 | abraxa__ | CM: I dispute... brainfuck is actually worse than APL in my opinion |
| 19:52.55 | buz | malbogle may just be even worse than brainfuck |
| 19:52.56 | abraxa__ | Though I guess brainfuck isn't really used... |
| 19:52.59 | CM | abraxa__: Hehe, it is, but I doubt it's used much in production environments |
| 19:53.12 | abraxa__ | Yeah, you win that one :) |
| 19:53.13 | CM | This time you were faster.. :P |
| 19:53.16 | abraxa__ | lol |
| 19:53.20 | buz | http://nanoweb.si.kz/manual/mod_bsp.html |
| 19:53.26 | buz | ohhh the pain |
| 19:54.01 | abraxa__ | rofl... |
| 19:54.16 | buz | (i actually know the guy who wrote the php interpreter) |
| 19:54.47 | *** join/#openmoko seemant (n=trinity@gentoo/developer/seemant) |
| 19:54.59 | seemant | hmm, I didn't autojoin for some reason |
| 19:56.29 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A36F45.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:57.01 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 19:58.09 | CM | seemant: I'm sure it's those damn androids ;) |
| 20:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:01.37 | don | l8tr all |
| 20:03.35 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.178.201) |
| 20:06.24 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.65) |
| 20:09.04 | seemant | CM: Ihate the droids sometimes |
| 20:13.30 | CVirus | Android ? |
| 20:13.35 | seemant | yes |
| 20:13.49 | CVirus | why so ? |
| 20:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@c-71-63-180-237.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 20:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 20:15.24 | seemant | coz they diverted me away from this channel |
| 20:16.44 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-157-1-89-195.w90-20.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:20.20 | CVirus | hehe |
| 20:23.50 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@75.144.175.202) |
| 20:24.56 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@190.24.93.152) |
| 20:25.37 | *** join/#openmoko dkr (n=dkr@alita-alt.wirespring.net) |
| 20:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko mockenh (n=joe@p57B8E0DC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:27.50 | *** join/#openmoko mockenh_ (n=joe@p57B8E0DC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:28.36 | *** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@190.24.93.152) |
| 20:32.14 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@190.24.93.152) |
| 20:34.54 | *** join/#openmoko trivex` (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:36.04 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.237.65) |
| 20:39.38 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 20:41.12 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 20:41.58 | *** join/#openmoko orino (n=orino@84-74-193-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:43.23 | *** join/#openmoko bluemaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.231.53) |
| 20:44.23 | *** join/#openmoko arw2 (i=familia@201.244.108.13) |
| 20:46.04 | |R | p| : none that i found, it would have to be compiled or extracted from debian archives |
| 20:46.08 | |R | oops |
| 20:47.20 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 20:49.18 | LordC | Guys, what are the chances of my University receiving a dev package? |
| 20:49.25 | LordC | Is there an application process of some sort? |
| 20:49.47 | cjb_ie | you mean for free? |
| 20:49.59 | LordC | Not necessarily |
| 20:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko twistx (n=no@64.30.190.171) |
| 20:50.25 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@41.233.147.124) |
| 20:51.05 | LordC | Of course it would be easier if it was free. But there is a budget that the tech department has access to, just takes an application. |
| 21:01.26 | LordC | So any info would be appreciated ^^ |
| 21:02.01 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@201.244.108.13) |
| 21:13.01 | CM | LordC: Just order a few, it's a cheap embedded dev-kit anyway :) |
| 21:14.34 | peepsalot | LordC, to receive a dev package, you just have to order one, like everyone else. openmoko.com |
| 21:14.55 | LordC | I didn't know the were available to the public. Thought it was internal dev only atm |
| 21:14.58 | LordC | Thanks |
| 21:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@212.2.170.243) |
| 21:19.13 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 21:25.04 | *** join/#openmoko mwester-road (n=chatzill@68-248-62-130.ded.ameritech.net) |
| 21:29.34 | CM | LordC: The GTA01 version is availible to all right now, the GTA02 with wifi and other enancements has not been manufactured yet |
| 21:29.48 | LordC | oh |
| 21:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-8380.bb.online.no) |
| 21:30.15 | summatusmentis | if it hasn't been manufactured yet, how do we know there won't be issues just like there were in GTA01? |
| 21:30.53 | CM | summatusmentis: They have made some dev-samples that are being tested right now |
| 21:31.19 | summatusmentis | oh, ok, thanks CM |
| 21:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko XVirus (n=GoD@41.233.147.124) |
| 21:34.23 | *** join/#openmoko amir1641 (n=Miranda@80.238.134.134) |
| 21:35.04 | CM | mwester-road: Yes, but it still seems to be internal devs only, not yet P0 |
| 21:35.58 | CM | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 |
| 21:36.09 | CM | mwester-road: Hope you get one :) |
| 21:36.29 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@41.233.147.124) |
| 21:39.43 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 21:45.58 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-68-96-88.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:53.01 | summatusmentis | I'm reading planet.openmoko.org, and it keeps mentioning openmoko being a rebranded angstrom? |
| 21:53.10 | mwester-road | Yes. |
| 21:53.45 | summatusmentis | why? what's the purpose of having two different distros then? |
| 21:53.51 | summatusmentis | or is it not really? |
| 21:55.19 | mwester-road | Angstrom is a linux distro that is built with OE; it is intended for small devices such as PDAs. OpenMoko is based on that distro, and should be just a variant (different packages in the base) of that distro. |
| 21:55.47 | mwester-road | The idea would be that I can then install the same app software on my neo as I could on my PDA or any other device running an Angstrom variant. |
| 21:56.02 | summatusmentis | hrm.. I thought the premise behind Angstrom was that it was all-encompassing |
| 21:56.16 | abraxa__ | summatusmentis: To be precise, Koen keeps mentioning it. |
| 21:56.28 | mwester-road | Angstrom is Koen's baby. |
| 21:56.32 | abraxa__ | Yup. |
| 21:56.45 | abraxa__ | He just wants to get credit, that's all ;) |
| 21:56.50 | summatusmentis | oh, i see. I just saw it being mentioned |
| 21:57.02 | mwester-road | In the end it comes down to politics, and not technical issues. |
| 21:57.43 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@147.87.129.235) |
| 21:59.39 | cjb_ie | get a real character encoding :p |
| 22:00.43 | CM | cjb_ie: I wish, but this screened irssi is runing on SunOS 5.10 |
| 22:00.48 | summatusmentis | is there a finger keyboard in openmoko yet? |
| 22:01.02 | *** join/#openmoko Audiomind_ (n=Audiomin@62.79.42.233.adsl.kj.tiscali.dk) |
| 22:01.14 | CM | summatusmentis: Not specifially for fingers |
| 22:02.42 | ozarka | Wasn't there a t9 keyboard on planet.openmoko.org today? |
| 22:03.36 | summatusmentis | it's not t9, looks like it's multi-tap |
| 22:03.48 | summatusmentis | it could probably be made to t9 |
| 22:04.39 | ozarka | Isn't t9 a type of multi-tap? |
| 22:04.57 | ckuethe | no, it's predictive text entry |
| 22:05.13 | ozarka | It doesn't matter. The one on planet.openmoko.org isn't what you're looking for? |
| 22:06.34 | summatusmentis | I was looking for something like the iphone has, last I heard, that's what I had heard the plan was, like 4 months ago :-D |
| 22:06.52 | cjb_ie | mad, didn't think the iphone was around that long |
| 22:07.34 | summatusmentis | well, no, but the keyboard was known about |
| 22:07.50 | summatusmentis | I had thought there were plans for a touch qwerty keyboard |
| 22:08.38 | ozarka | I think the full on screen keyboard OM has now could be adapted just by removing a lot of the keys. |
| 22:09.12 | ozarka | I don't know how the iPhone handles it, but moving the lesser-used keys to a shift screen would work. |
| 22:09.32 | ozarka | I think the multi-tap looks cool, though. Can't wait to try it on a real phone. |
| 22:09.45 | ozarka | Are there any images with that built in? |
| 22:10.22 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:10.31 | summatusmentis | I wish I had OE setup :-/ |
| 22:10.42 | dread | i tried qtopia yesterday and after getting a clue, how it works, i was amazed by theis input-keyboard :) |
| 22:11.05 | summatusmentis | can we steal it? |
| 22:11.48 | ozarka | "Steal" is such an ugly word. |
| 22:12.14 | summatusmentis | ok, can we integrate it, as per open source poilcy? |
| 22:12.15 | *** join/#openmoko PITABoy (i=c0684379@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-fd67c168c15e22fc) |
| 22:12.33 | dread | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:13.35 | ozarka | I used qtopia on the neo but I don't remember anything amazing about the keyboard |
| 22:13.43 | ozarka | and I can't find a screen shot. |
| 22:13.52 | ozarka | What did you like about it? |
| 22:14.21 | dread | there are gestures to do space, backspace |
| 22:14.28 | dread | and to switch between keyboards |
| 22:14.36 | *** join/#openmoko PITABoy (i=c0684379@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-daf8e94d7bfad4bc) |
| 22:14.36 | dread | one with important chars |
| 22:14.42 | dread | one with capitals :) |
| 22:14.50 | dread | and one with special chars |
| 22:15.12 | dread | easy and quick to switchbetween, quick to use, fast typing |
| 22:15.46 | dread | it gives also suggestions like t9 from the chars you have entered so far |
| 22:15.59 | summatusmentis | is there a way to test, at least some of OM on a zaurus? |
| 22:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko PITABoy (i=c0684379@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-9d18bc535463e049) |
| 22:22.06 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1_ (n=Selveste@85.235.243.199) |
| 22:22.22 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@plato.cs.rhul.ac.uk) |
| 22:22.33 | dkr | see that touch keyboard that is "haptic" makes sounds/motion to make you think you are interacting with physical keyboard? |
| 22:23.10 | ozarka | They need to make the screen feel like newspaper when you touch it |
| 22:23.14 | dkr | http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2007/11/06/nokias-haptikos-tact.html |
| 22:23.21 | ozarka | but only if you're reading RSS feeds. |
| 22:23.53 | ljp | dread: glad you like it. its called 'Predictive Keyboard' |
| 22:24.49 | summatusmentis | that's the kind of keyboard I thought people were working on implementing :-D |
| 22:26.06 | enjahova | summatusmentis, you can emulate it you know |
| 22:26.14 | enjahova | OM that is |
| 22:26.57 | summatusmentis | enjahova: I did know that, but I don't have OE set up... I'm just slow |
| 22:27.05 | enjahova | i see |
| 22:33.48 | PITABoy | anyone have a prebuilt kernel for the ARM1136EJ-S processor aka TI OMAP2420 or the MSM7500 |
| 22:35.54 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-4202cf54a07b6497) |
| 22:36.30 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B034C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:36.32 | *** part/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-4202cf54a07b6497) |
| 22:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko anders_ (i=andersg@0x63.nu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:41.43 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@60-240-29-193-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:43.33 | *** join/#openmoko sodawater (n=sodawate@cpe-70-122-50-122.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 22:43.58 | sodawater | Hello all |
| 22:44.15 | abraxa__ | ahoy |
| 22:44.38 | sodawater | How goes Abraxa? |
| 22:45.06 | abraxa__ | row-row-rowing my boat as always! |
| 22:45.34 | sodawater | HEHE I guessed that. The best part of boats to me, is the drinkin! |
| 22:46.49 | sodawater | You know I can't help but wonder why the Neo1973 doesn't have 3G support, wifi, or BT |
| 22:47.03 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A36F45.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:47.21 | cjb_ie | GTA02 will have wifi, and i thought BT |
| 22:47.53 | SpeedEvil | both have bt |
| 22:48.30 | sodawater | Hmm, I think I am looking at old information then, my bad |
| 22:48.35 | *** join/#openmoko KmiKze (n=KmiKze@brutus.fragtime.net) |
| 22:51.05 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-f29fb81425049f2a) |
| 22:53.00 | *** join/#openmoko r3pek (n=r3pek@gentoo/developer/r3pek) |
| 22:55.36 | morricone | Sean has been so silent the past few months. I hope he will write about the 850 mhz issue |
| 22:56.45 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DB73D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:57.08 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (i=bryce@gateway/tor/x-8b61e6d9e2990f12) |
| 22:57.32 | BryceLeo | hey all |
| 22:57.33 | sodawater | This is my 1st time here, what problems is going on with 850MHz? |
| 22:57.38 | sodawater | Hello Bryce |
| 22:58.07 | SpeedEvil | It's broken in hardwarte and will not be fixed sodawater . |
| 22:58.15 | BryceLeo | hey sodawater |
| 22:58.19 | SpeedEvil | Also will not be present in GTA02 |
| 22:58.30 | r3pek | guys, the december lunch will be world wide? |
| 22:58.32 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil: what happened with the hardware? |
| 22:58.48 | SpeedEvil | BryceLeo: mis-specified, or the OM team got something wrong |
| 22:59.16 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil, ugh, and a chipset change is def not possible |
| 22:59.24 | BryceLeo | how many regions do we lose with no 850 coverage? |
| 22:59.27 | mjr | it's not about the chipset |
| 22:59.35 | SpeedEvil | BryceLeo: apparantly large fractions of the US. |
| 22:59.41 | SpeedEvil | The chipset can do it. |
| 22:59.45 | SpeedEvil | The board can't. |
| 22:59.50 | BryceLeo | oh... |
| 22:59.54 | BryceLeo | well that blows..... |
| 22:59.59 | sodawater | This doesn't bode well. |
| 23:00.04 | BryceLeo | and i'm in the US..... |
| 23:00.13 | SpeedEvil | Indeed :/ |
| 23:00.16 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 23:00.26 | sodawater | I am worried that people will abandon Openmoko for the Gphone |
| 23:00.29 | SpeedEvil | I'm only basing 'large portions' on lurking on IRC. |
| 23:00.44 | SpeedEvil | I may be wrong, and it's one or two people it happened to affect badly |
| 23:01.12 | SpeedEvil | sodawater: can't really comment till the full release is made on what android is. |
| 23:02.06 | ozarka | Did anyone see the FSJ blog about gPhone? |
| 23:02.10 | sodawater | Yeah SpeedEvil, right now it's a lot more speculation than fact |
| 23:02.37 | sodawater | Ozarka do you have a link by chance? |
| 23:02.39 | ozarka | http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/11/its-not-phone-its-alliance.html |
| 23:03.26 | ozarka | "When you're redoing your kitchen, and you're choosing appliances, do you go out looking for some consortium devoted to food temperature management and environmental control technology? No. You go looking for a refrigerator." |
| 23:03.37 | PITABoy | a couple questings is the gphone going to run linux is it going to be gsm and is the GTA02 really going to have worse reception in the US? |
| 23:04.15 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLe1 (i=bryce@gateway/tor/x-c361934e8ea9dbfd) |
| 23:04.17 | BryceLe1 | you never know what's gonna happen, if that platform blows as much as open social or whatever we'll be fine |
| 23:04.36 | BryceLe1 | damn tor, i can't get on anyother way and there are apparently not mnany good nodes in my area |
| 23:06.14 | ozarka | I think the 850 thing is worse than the gPhone announcement. |
| 23:06.30 | mjr | it's certainly worse for US people |
| 23:06.37 | ozarka | It's pointless to speculate. |
| 23:06.42 | BryceLe1 | yeah.... i was really looking forward to it too |
| 23:06.55 | ozarka | But pointless speculation is what IRC was built for. |
| 23:07.02 | cjb_ie | i thought GTA02 was only in prototype atm and a respin was inevitable before the release? |
| 23:07.04 | mjr | Gphone is almost certainly not going to be very open, even if the base system is |
| 23:07.30 | morricone | cjb_ie, actually everyone hopes, that this was the last rev ;) |
| 23:07.31 | sodawater | Agreed Ozarka! |
| 23:07.32 | guaqua | is gphone a synonym for android platform? |
| 23:07.33 | BryceLe1 | it's going to get locked by the carrier, it'll be an enormous hassle |
| 23:07.38 | mjr | worst case; OM dies and we'll flash android on the neos |
| 23:07.45 | ozarka | The press release says gPhone will be "truly open". |
| 23:08.35 | mjr | ozarka, it's emphasized in the FAQs how the manufacturers will be able to lock and limit the phones down as much as they like |
| 23:08.56 | mjr | Google is likely to do that itself for the Gphone, since they want to force-feed you ads |
| 23:09.12 | BryceLe1 | google has to get it popular first |
| 23:09.25 | mjr | (and as ozarka said, pointless at this point, yes) |
| 23:09.25 | BryceLe1 | ads will be in browser |
| 23:09.25 | ozarka | guaqua: It's android. No one from google has called it gphone. |
| 23:09.36 | BryceLe1 | MS has a patent in "operating system lever advertisements" |
| 23:09.37 | sodawater | BryceLe1: google has to get it popular first <---- Ummm wait, what? |
| 23:09.49 | ozarka | And android is actually openhandheldalliance or whatever. |
| 23:10.10 | ozarka | sodawater: they should have some big press conf or something to drum up some interest. |
| 23:10.24 | ozarka | They might even get a few tics on their stock price if the timing is good. |
| 23:10.54 | sodawater | I wish they would say "here's the phone this is why it rocks, you can start crying now Apple" |
| 23:11.00 | BryceLe1 | very true, however the platform has to get out there and established then they can ruin it |
| 23:11.20 | ozarka | BTW, there are actual google employees in #android. |
| 23:11.23 | cjb_ie | it'll be interesting to see if it's as hackable as the iphone |
| 23:11.36 | ckuethe | i'm guessing it will be |
| 23:11.40 | *** join/#openmoko nasum (n=nasum@c-67-180-178-33.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:11.56 | ckuethe | what % of interlusers actually aggressively block ads |
| 23:12.12 | ozarka | They won't say much, but you can poke at them. |
| 23:12.18 | cjb_ie | quick, introduce vulns into the common code before phone co's use it |
| 23:12.24 | ckuethe | i'm sure google & co. have factored in a small number to tuners, tweakers, and hackers |
| 23:12.41 | sodawater | HEHE I use a lynx browser and BitchX for IRC ;) I don't worry about adds to much |
| 23:12.45 | BryceLe1 | ... i don't think 850 is gonna matter much for the US |
| 23:12.56 | ckuethe | i have an anal-retentive restrictive razr... but that's ok |
| 23:13.04 | BryceLe1 | http://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/CoverageFaq.aspx#3 |
| 23:13.08 | ckuethe | all i use it for is a small phone with decent battery that fits in my pocket |
| 23:13.15 | sodawater | ckuethe, My razr is so "non stock" it's not funny |
| 23:13.23 | BryceLe1 | lol cjb_ie you're evil |
| 23:13.42 | ckuethe | i'm not sure whether i'd mod my phone into next tuesday or if i'd just use it as a phone |
| 23:13.54 | ckuethe | i've never really got into PDAs and things |
| 23:14.23 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:14.25 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 23:15.11 | sodawater | mine's not a PDA, but it's unlocked, it has only one theme, when it rings it has 3-4 lights that flash *party lights* |
| 23:16.12 | *** join/#openmoko PITABoy (i=c0684379@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-965a835afd666c6b) |
| 23:16.43 | ckuethe | i just mean the ... personal information appliance ... thing |
| 23:16.51 | ckuethe | my phone is a phone. that's it |
| 23:17.02 | ckuethe | my gps is a gps. that's it. |
| 23:17.19 | ckuethe | my laptop runs all the big apps |
| 23:17.20 | thomasg | my phone is a computer. that's it :) |
| 23:17.57 | ckuethe | every time i try a blackberry or top-of-the-line nokia it's cool for about 10 minutes then i start running into walls as i ask too much of it |
| 23:18.19 | ozarka | ckuethe: So what interests you about OM? |
| 23:18.42 | ozarka | If you just use your phone as a phone and nothing else. |
| 23:19.00 | sodawater | What I would love is to have a UMPC that has skype so my pc would by my phone, my pc would be my PC, and also I could open it up and use it as a normal PC with the wifi |
| 23:19.08 | sodawater | brb |
| 23:19.37 | ckuethe | once again, i'm gonna try the integrated information appliance thing... maybe this time it won't suck |
| 23:19.49 | ckuethe | also, i'm hoping for voice privacy |
| 23:20.20 | *** part/#openmoko BryceLe1 (i=bryce@gateway/tor/x-c361934e8ea9dbfd) |
| 23:21.01 | ozarka | I have to go into the bathroom and shut the door for voice privacy. |
| 23:21.49 | Stephmw | you call farting 'voice'? |
| 23:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko DRF (n=d@host86-139-5-113.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:28.01 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-67-9-161-48.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 23:28.01 | *** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@201.244.108.13) |
| 23:32.36 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 23:57.57 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.192.213) |
| 23:59.59 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@nsc.ciup.fr) |
