IRC log for #openmoko on 20071030

`00:10.41`	`*** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117)`
`00:13.39`	`*** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@li9-26.members.linode.com)`
`00:14.53`	`*** part/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117)`
`00:15.43`	`*** join/#openmoko dfoley (n=dfoley@s142-179-108-133.bc.hsia.telus.net)`
`00:16.40`	`*** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1167864411.dsl.bell.ca)`
`00:20.42`	`*** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-68-26.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk)`
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`00:37.04`	`*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)`
`00:38.12`	`Henryk`	`interesting. when you forget to give the -a parameter to dfu-util when trying to flash a rootfs it downloads to ram. whew. for a few seconds i really feared i would brick it`
`00:38.41`	`*** part/#openmoko dfoley (n=dfoley@s142-179-108-133.bc.hsia.telus.net)`
`00:44.11`	`*** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@203.94.178.46)`
`00:52.29`	`*** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-31-137.cust.wildblue.net)`
`00:57.47`	`sagacis_`	`Ouch! during upgrade, no space left on device.`
`01:03.01`	`*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net)`
`01:09.11`	`hec`	`anyone have any luck getting ATT sims in the USA working?`
`01:09.56`	`sagacis_`	`hec: Old sims, yes. There should be a forthcoming firmware update to fix the others.`
`01:10.09`	`hec`	`k.. ive used a bunch of different ones`
`01:10.15`	`hec`	`my iphone one of course doenst work`
`01:10.25`	`sagacis_`	`Does anybody know how to get rid of old libs? Continuous upgrade has left many versions in my /usr/lib, and I'm out of space now.`
`01:11.13`	`hec`	`i had a 4021 that did sort of work`
`01:11.23`	`hec`	`but wasnt from an iphone... and was the 'old cingular'`
`01:12.01`	`mwester`	`sagacis_: reflash`
`01:12.30`	`hec`	`and any word on driver for built in gps?`
`01:12.36`	`hec`	`im sick of using bluetooth gps`
`01:21.48`	`*** join/#openmoko mzb (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net)`
`01:22.18`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net)`
`01:30.41`	`*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)`
`01:39.22`	`sagacis_`	`mwester, So ipkg doesn't clean up its mess?`
`01:40.22`	`sagacis_`	`I guess I need a script to restore all my settings after a flash, if I'm going to have to reflash regularly`
`01:41.04`	`sagacis_`	`hec, US GSM 850 band is not currently enabled on the neo modem. Hopefully the firmware update will fix that, too.`
`01:43.01`	`*** join/#openmoko Firefishe (n=kvirc@64.202.139.190)`
`01:44.10`	`Firefishe`	`I'm new. What might I contribute to this project, or where may I find out how?`
`01:44.16`	`mwester-laptop`	`sagacis_: I seem to recall ipkg deleting libc out from underneath itself when upgrading libc... so I guess it can clean up after itself, but perhaps its better that it doesn't?`
`01:53.53`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z792d.z.pppool.de)`
`01:56.33`	`*** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK[away] (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.1.fullrate.dk)`
`01:56.57`	`*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)`
`02:01.35`	`*** join/#openmoko VUGO (i=vugo@gateway/tor/x-d920762e2fd3ba52)`
`02:04.17`	`*** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)`
`02:04.41`	`sagacis_`	`heh heh`
`02:04.52`	`sagacis_`	`Firefishe: That's the perennial question.`
`02:04.57`	`*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@pool80-81.cs.rhul.ac.uk)`
`02:05.15`	`Firefishe`	`Hello sagacis :)`
`02:05.19`	`Firefishe`	`Nice to meet you.`
`02:05.28`	`sagacis_`	`300 people and nobody talks.`
`02:05.33`	`sagacis_`	`It's like a mime convention.`
`02:05.47`	`Firefishe`	`As of now, I don't even code, but I'm going to change that over the next year.`
`02:05.56`	`microlith`	`if it were a mime convention we'd all be talking in emotes`
`02:05.59`	`*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@pool80-81.cs.rhul.ac.uk)`
`02:06.02`	`Firefishe`	`However, I am quite literary...documentation anyone? ;)`
`02:06.26`	`sagacis_`	`Firefishe: We could use copious documentation.`
`02:07.16`	`sagacis_`	`Firefishe: The mailing lists and the wiki are good starting places to get your head around the project. It's quite large.`
`02:07.16`	`Firefishe`	`sagacis: Well, as I said, I know how to read code, but writing it will take some time for me. Writing about how to use the UI for end-users? Now that I can sink my fingers and my laptop in to.`
`02:07.34`	`Firefishe`	`is that openmoko.org?`
`02:07.37`	`Firefishe`	`I just registered, btw.`
`02:07.51`	`sagacis_`	`Firefishe: That would be valuable, but you would have to be confident it wont' change dramatically after you write docs.`
`02:07.59`	`sagacis_`	`Yes to the openmoko.org`
`02:08.30`	`Firefishe`	`sagacis: Please elucidate. Do you mean what I would have to be spot-on-accurate the first go around?`
`02:08.46`	`Firefishe`	`(As a writer, I'm just wanting to know what the project needs)`
`02:09.16`	`*** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon)`
`02:09.37`	`Firefishe`	`hi HellDragon`
`02:09.46`	`Firefishe`	`welcome to the the ZoneOfSilence ;)`
`02:10.04`	`sagacis_`	`Firefishe: No, I'm just lamenting that the UI changes dramatically at times. OpenedHand is mostly doing the UI at this point. Of course, anybody could contribute a new UI.`
`02:10.08`	`mjr`	`Surely, you mean the Cone of Silence`
`02:10.21`	`Firefishe`	`mjr...of course!`
`02:10.33`	`mjr`	`WHAT?!?`
`02:11.18`	`Firefishe`	`If you don't know, I do not know what to say, mjr.`
`02:11.22`	`Firefishe`	`;)`
`02:12.44`	`*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)`
`02:13.30`	`Firefishe`	`sagacis: oh, I just meant "in general." I don't intend to take over someone else's project ;).`
`02:13.51`	`Firefishe`	`I'll look through the wiki and the forums, and then make a choice, and send a suggestion and see if someone wants help.`
`02:14.31`	`Firefishe`	`This is my first open-sourced anything--as well as my first participation in a large project--so I'm a newbie-in-the-rough.`
`02:14.56`	`Firefishe`	`I'm planning on going back to school for programming soon.`
`02:15.00`	`sagacis_`	`Feel free to jump in. That's what open source is all about.`
`02:15.12`	`sagacis_`	`There are some others working on different levels of documentation and instruction.`
`02:15.30`	`Firefishe`	`A nice IRC program for the phone(s) would be nice ;)`
`02:15.35`	`sagacis_`	`Wow, switching shows there...`
`02:15.47`	`sagacis_`	`I use pidgin and chatx`
`02:15.52`	`sagacis_`	`bitchx was too big`
`02:16.00`	`sagacis_`	`chatx needed too much X11.`
`02:16.07`	`sagacis_`	`pidgin is large, but gives me IM also.`
`02:16.09`	`Firefishe`	`oh, there are already irc clients for the platform?`
`02:16.15`	`*** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@76.209.220.8)`
`02:16.19`	`sagacis_`	`Yup.`
`02:16.41`	`sagacis_`	`I've also used a few others (like sic) from the command line when first starting.`
`02:17.01`	`Firefishe`	`I was thinking something like WLIrc or jmirc in the java world (my apologies if that's a bad word here ;}), but with more features.`
`02:17.15`	`mjr`	`Firefishe, well, people can run pretty much anything on it, since it is a GNU/Linux box with X.`
`02:17.18`	`sagacis_`	`We don't have a java vm yet.`
`02:17.31`	`Firefishe`	`not a major loss...save for browser plugins.`
`02:17.31`	`mjr`	`something more ... integrated would perhaps be called for in the long run`
`02:17.44`	`Firefishe`	`then there's the java licensing issue`
`02:18.08`	`Firefishe`	`So I guess this is mostly a C/C++ developed device then?`
`02:18.21`	`*** join/#openmoko sagacis\|neo (n=root@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com)`
`02:18.35`	`Firefishe`	`wb`
`02:18.42`	`mjr`	`C is the "native" tongue. Python seems well-respected enough.`
`02:18.49`	`sagacis\|neo`	`pidgin works just fine from the neo`
`02:18.59`	`Firefishe`	`pidgin is an irc client?`
`02:19.04`	`mjr`	`an IM client`
`02:19.09`	`*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@pool80-81.cs.rhul.ac.uk)`
`02:19.09`	`Firefishe`	`very nice :)`
`02:19.13`	`sagacis_`	`Firefishe: No licensing issue with Java. It's open.`
`02:19.27`	`Firefishe`	`sagacis: just says I need to rtfm a bit more ;)`
`02:19.48`	`sagacis_`	`Google is your friend.`
`02:19.54`	`Firefishe`	`yes it is`
`02:20.05`	`Firefishe`	`directly from my blackberry, so I have no excuse for wont of reading ;)`
`02:20.16`	`Firefishe`	`although this is kvirc on debian`
`02:20.29`	`Firefishe`	`the app manager concept intrigues me`
`02:20.56`	`Firefishe`	`make the phone solid, let the end user decide how they want to build it up for functionality`
`02:21.02`	`Firefishe`	`"`
`02:21.09`	`Firefishe`	`"why didn't I thinka that?"`
`02:23.25`	`*** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFDBF0.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:24.12`	`sagacis_`	`mwester are you re-flashing for updates?`
`02:40.39`	`mwester-laptop`	`sagacis_: Yes. I seldom ipkg upgrade. I have all my stuff on the SD card, and a script that just copies things into place (such as /etc/resolv.conf)`
`02:41.02`	`*** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1167863965.dsl.bell.ca)`
`02:42.07`	`sagacis_`	`Guess I'll have to follow suit. I just keep changing stuff, and have to remember to add to my script then.`
`02:43.27`	`mwester-laptop`	`It's just that things change so much at times that ipkg upgrade doesn't seem to work really well.`
`02:48.37`	`*** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@rd.tw.openmoko.org)`
`02:57.51`	`*** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@office.tw.openmoko.org)`
`02:58.43`	`sagacis_`	`boy that analog clock is big`
`03:00.19`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60.241.37.3)`
`03:09.44`	`*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)`
`03:13.51`	`*** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (i=500@poolofdespair.net)`
`03:14.56`	`*** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@li9-26.members.linode.com)`
`03:17.31`	`*** join/#openmoko mickey-tw (n=mickeyl@rd.tw.openmoko.org)`
`03:21.12`	`mickey-tw`	`morning`
`03:21.15`	`mickey-tw`	`or rather`
`03:21.17`	`mickey-tw`	`Zao an!`
`03:21.34`	`mwester-laptop`	`:) Greetings, good sir.`
`03:22.18`	`mickey-tw`	`mwester-laptop: as for 351, please go ahead and add that to 2.6.22.5 in OE`
`03:22.33`	`mickey-tw`	`and -devel, if you have a chance`
`03:24.06`	`*** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com)`
`03:29.40`	`etteyafed`	`Any thouights on apparmor in openmoko? If there was a gtk based gui to configure it how hard would it be to port to mokoui? Would mono be too much overhead for the mobile devices, and if so would perl be a good alternative.`
`03:30.10`	`etteyafed`	`i know, lots of questions so little point.`
`03:30.19`	`raster`	`no idea`
`03:30.24`	`rwhitby`	`mickey-tw: did you see the change needed to qemu env file for the change in kernel suffix?`
`03:30.38`	`raster`	`unlikely that it will be done by the core`
`03:30.44`	`raster`	`but patches accepted... :)`
`03:30.44`	`rwhitby`	`mickey-tw: http://pastebin.ca/750171`
`03:32.46`	`etteyafed`	`I ask because I am working on a gtk apparmor management suite, and I have recently been thinking that doing it in C# may be less portable than somethinmg like perl. I assume that apparmor would work just fine on openmoko, it is running a linux kernel after all.`
`03:33.27`	`raster`	`i guess it would`
`03:33.38`	`raster`	`but as i said`
`03:33.41`	`raster`	`you want it...`
`03:33.42`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: 03mickey * r3304 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/env: qemu-neo1973: catch up openmoko environment with the new kernel suffix`
`03:33.43`	`raster`	`patches accepted`
`03:33.44`	`raster`	`:)`
`03:34.26`	`rwhitby`	`mickey-tw: thx`
`03:34.40`	`mickey-tw`	`np`
`03:36.19`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: 03rwhitby * r165 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Catch up qemu flash target with new kernel suffix`
`03:38.47`	`etteyafed`	`I noticed that mokoui depended on gtk. does that mean that gtk apps will work as is? If I get the phone, and I may, I will get apparmor running on it and profile the entry points. As far as getting the GUI management software running on it, that depends on how similar gtk is to mokoui, and if the mobile devices will run perl or mono programs (i am sure they will run perl, but I haven't decided to switch to perl yet. All of my`
`03:39.17`	`Henryk`	`etteyafed: hmm, gtk binds great to python and I'd wage a guess that python would be more common on openmoko devices than mono, for the time being`
`03:39.19`	`raster`	`yes`
`03:39.24`	`raster`	`gtk apps should work`
`03:39.25`	`raster`	`note`
`03:39.32`	`raster`	`you will need big fonts`
`03:39.37`	`raster`	`and only have a small screen`
`03:39.40`	`raster`	`1 moue button`
`03:39.43`	`raster`	`etc. etc.`
`03:40.09`	`raster`	`you are of course best off with c/c++ for a gui app`
`03:40.13`	`raster`	`if you are thinking of support`
`03:40.43`	`raster`	`but as Henryk said - python is going to be a better bet than C#`
`03:41.01`	`Henryk`	`In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, not so much. I've had bless (a gtk# sharp hex editor) running on my neo with mono once. Did run, but was completely useless because the interface did not fit on 640x480`
`03:41.14`	`*** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=fredsiba@p549528A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`03:41.21`	`etteyafed`	`that is not big issue. I will have context sensitive menus, but those options will be available by other means. Well C/C++ is not an option for my pruposes. I want the mgmt app to be cross platform. It has ground up remote management features.`
`03:41.46`	`Henryk`	`raster: mentioning C and GUI and "best off" in the same sentence is kind of strange`
`03:41.52`	`etteyafed`	`I was thinking perl but python is an option also i suppose.`
`03:41.57`	`raster`	`how does c/c+= not make it cross platform?`
`03:42.13`	`raster`	`Henryk: when it comesto api/on-phone existing support`
`03:42.21`	`raster`	`you WILL have libgtk.so....`
`03:42.36`	`raster`	`having a whole python interpreter and bindings is less likely`
`03:42.40`	`raster`	`as it is with C#`
`03:42.42`	`raster`	`etc.`
`03:43.01`	`etteyafed`	`C is not nearly as cross-compat as python/perl/mono`
`03:43.03`	`raster`	`i am not talking about the internals of the app`
`03:43.22`	`raster`	`etteyafed: that is wrong.`
`03:43.26`	`raster`	`really wrong`
`03:43.37`	`raster`	`i've written 100,000`
`03:43.40`	`etteyafed`	`i am talking OSX Win32 Linux etc support and no it is NOT wrong`
`03:43.41`	`raster`	`i've written 100,000's of lines of c`
`03:43.43`	`Henryk`	`yes, we need more flash. mono with .net 1 and mono with .net 2 are each about 15 Megs for the core libraries`
`03:43.49`	`raster`	`and all of it works on many architectures`
`03:43.51`	`raster`	`with little effort`
`03:44.18`	`raster`	`etteyafed: yuou are talking about an apparmor gui`
`03:44.20`	`etteyafed`	`I don't want to need to compile 3 or more different versions and change things for each one`
`03:44.24`	`raster`	`apparmor last i knew was.... linux`
`03:44.33`	`raster`	`so you have 1 os to worry about`
`03:44.37`	`etteyafed`	`yeah and it can manage apparmor remotely`
`03:44.43`	`ianj`	`is c++ bindings included by default?`
`03:44.48`	`etteyafed`	`so it can do it from linux`
`03:44.51`	`etteyafed`	`or windows`
`03:45.00`	`raster`	`ianj: c is directly available from c++ - so moot point :)`
`03:45.05`	`etteyafed`	`or anything`
`03:45.14`	`Henryk`	`app_armor_ + remote = wtf?`
`03:45.19`	`raster`	`etteyafed: well the more os support you want -the fatter your base requirements`
`03:45.20`	`ianj`	`raster, oh hehe, im a noob. so i can write c++ apps no worries then?`
`03:45.29`	`raster`	`and so the less likely it is that it will be "already on the phone"`
`03:45.36`	`raster`	`ianj: of course.`
`03:45.36`	`etteyafed`	`well it is quite usefull in a server env with sever hundred servers`
`03:46.00`	`raster`	`ianj: all c libraries are directly available from c++ (well as long as the authors remember to put in their extern "C" {} bits)`
`03:46.09`	`raster`	`etteyafed: but not for a phone`
`03:46.29`	`ianj`	`thanks raster`
`03:46.44`	`raster`	`ianj: you call the c functions like you call any functions in c- you just do it in c++`
`03:46.46`	`etteyafed`	`Well the remote features are not important on the phone REALLY, but the app is not just for a phone.`
`03:46.50`	`raster`	`it isnt "c+++"-like`
`03:46.55`	`raster`	`ie no c++ objects`
`03:46.59`	`raster`	`and c+= constructs`
`03:47.02`	`etteyafed`	`and I would not want to rewrite it for the phone`
`03:47.02`	`Henryk`	`etteyafed: conclusion: if you want to do it right _now_ then I would recommend python (there's a blocker bug in mono on arm for all non-trivial operations)`
`03:47.08`	`raster`	`its just calling c functions`
`03:47.19`	`ianj`	`i see`
`03:48.11`	`etteyafed`	`raster: Actually you could manage your servers and get status and updates on your phone while out of the office`
`03:48.25`	`etteyafed`	`and that might be usefull in some situations`
`03:48.27`	`raster`	`possibly`
`03:48.28`	`raster`	`BUT`
`03:48.34`	`raster`	`a gui for a phonewith a 2.8" screen`
`03:48.41`	`raster`	`is a very different beast to a desktop gui app`
`03:48.44`	`raster`	`trust me`
`03:48.53`	`raster`	`you invariably need to make a desktop ui very small and compact`
`03:48.54`	`etteyafed`	`I know, there are serious limits to what can be done`
`03:48.55`	`mickey-tw`	`we trust you on that one :D`
`03:48.56`	`raster`	`or`
`03:49.00`	`raster`	`do a new gui for a phone`
`03:49.06`	`*** join/#openmoko Demonax (n=mukunda@60-234-155-226.bitstream.orcon.net.nz)`
`03:49.18`	`raster`	`the dream of "1 app for all" is not so easy`
`03:49.19`	`Demonax`	`So how close are they to being on target with this? Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers.`
`03:49.24`	`Henryk`	`well, if you want to do remote management ... rdesktop. I've already used it and it even fits the windows start menu on the neo screen`
`03:49.25`	`Firefishe`	`hey, talking! :)`
`03:49.49`	`ianj`	`lol`
`03:49.49`	`raster`	`Henryk: yhats crazy talk!`
`03:49.54`	`raster`	`:)`
`03:50.03`	`etteyafed`	`I was thinking of having a compact mode and a full mode for the gui. That way, for simple tasks the whole thing won't be in your face`
`03:50.27`	`raster`	`etteyafed: that makes sense`
`03:51.38`	`etteyafed`	`Henryk: The app is for managing multiple systems at a time and a certain part of those systems, not like rdesktop`
`03:52.38`	`etteyafed`	`Is there that python is mentioned as the beest way as opposed to perl?`
`03:53.28`	`etteyafed`	`or is python just the more common option for Openmoko`
`03:53.40`	`*** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit)`
`03:54.33`	`etteyafed`	`there a reason*`
`03:55.18`	`*** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=alphaone@2001:638:602:af01:0:0:0:1)`
`03:55.31`	`Henryk`	`etteyafed: everyone of us loves python, especially the core developers, so it's the most likely language for standard inclusion`
`03:55.47`	`Henryk`	`and: there are already bindings. they even work.`
`03:56.15`	`Firefishe`	`isn't python easier for beginners to learn, too? <like, say, me?> ;)`
`03:57.02`	`etteyafed`	`IMHO there is really very little difference in python and perl for MOST tasks, even UI oriented.`
`03:57.18`	`Henryk`	`except of course for the line noise`
`03:57.20`	`etteyafed`	`I didn't think one was any easier than the other`
`03:58.23`	`etteyafed`	`they are both pretty simple, although CPAN is a great plus for perl`
`03:58.33`	`raster`	`perl is more capable of being incredibly ugly :)`
`03:59.06`	`etteyafed`	`yeah but that is the coders fault and only made better in py by the strict formatting`
`03:59.45`	`etteyafed`	`and that can be a bother at times if you are used to C`
`04:00.12`	`Henryk`	`python has a rather strict "don't guess" policy and no idiosyncratic constructions like "hmm, all variables have $ in their name, except hashes those have %, except of course you want to know the length, then you use $ too" or something`
`04:00.53`	`etteyafed`	`yeah. I really hare that in perl. and the stupidness of @`
`04:01.06`	`etteyafed`	`@is so stupid`
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`04:01.34`	`etteyafed`	`@my $stupid = $varible`
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`04:58.27`	`Firefishe`	`night all`
`04:58.32`	`Firefishe`	`thanks for the interesting convo`
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`06:49.35`	`Hopscotch`	`good morning`
`06:50.02`	`CM`	`Morning :)`
`06:52.57`	`mickey-tw`	`yo`
`06:53.06`	`CM`	`Hiya :)`
`06:53.32`	`CM`	`mickey-tw: Going back to Germany tomorrow or?`
`06:53.56`	`mickey-tw`	`yes. my plane departs in 8 hours`
`06:54.09`	`mickey-tw`	`will bring me back to FRA @ 06:50 on wednesday`
`06:54.12`	`CM`	`Ah, ok`
`06:55.45`	`CM`	`I think I like it more when you're in .tw though, so much progress during the last week... ;)`
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`06:59.00`	`mickey-tw`	`well, yeah`
`06:59.07`	`mickey-tw`	`but this project has to function without me`
`06:59.22`	`mickey-tw`	`i may not always be around`
`07:00.22`	`mickey-tw`	`no, just kidding`
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`07:02.58`	`mickey-tw`	`i have some open construction sites to close before i dive into SDK/tools for the remainder of this year`
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`07:04.56`	`blindcoder`	`moin`
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`07:21.18`	`xzcvczx`	`mickey-tw: open construction sites?`
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`07:40.16`	`CM`	`xzcvczx: I think he means with the base libraries`
`07:41.21`	`Sup3rkiddo`	`hi all`
`07:41.25`	`Sup3rkiddo`	`whats cooking`
`07:41.33`	`xzcvczx`	`ah ok`
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`07:49.54`	`xzcvczx`	`hmmm so close yet so far away`
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`08:02.30`	`jeddy3`	`anyone having knowledge of qvga fbset?`
`08:03.51`	`CM`	`jeddy3: stefan_schmidt maybe?`
`08:04.31`	`jeddy3`	`CM, :)`
`08:04.37`	`jeddy3`	`stefan_schmidt, ping?`
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`08:22.11`	`fatal-`	`ok, my example for dbus is not so far from ready`
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`08:22.43`	`xzcvczx`	`fatal-: wanna post it somewhere :P`
`08:24.00`	`fatal-`	`I will, but bit later today`
`08:24.06`	`CM`	`:)`
`08:24.30`	`xzcvczx`	`lol there is only 2.5 hrs left of today :P`
`08:24.48`	`fatal-`	`it's 10:24am ... :)`
`08:25.23`	`xzcvczx`	`2.5hrs and im 21 woot`
`08:28.08`	`CM`	`xzcvczx: Only 75% of my age then.. :P`
`08:30.41`	`cjb_ie`	`oi, stop making me feel old, you people`
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`08:37.22`	`xzcvczx`	`muhahaha`
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`08:53.31`	`xzcvczx`	`cjb_ie: how old are you?`
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`08:54.20`	`CM`	`ancient?`
`08:55.01`	`Balachmar`	`Hi, I am trying to emulate the openmoko software on ubuntu using qemu and I am running into some problems`
`08:55.23`	`CM`	`Are you using the makefile?`
`08:55.32`	`*** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo)`
`08:55.40`	`Balachmar`	`yes, then the proces ends with:`
`08:55.41`	`Balachmar`	`U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up.`
`08:55.41`	`Balachmar`	`make: *** [flash-qemu-official] Error 255`
`08:56.13`	`Balachmar`	`I would really love to get into the software and squash some bugs or help out with some project`
`08:56.32`	`*** join/#openmoko KwisatzHaderach_ (n=solarw@80.81.223.18)`
`08:56.34`	`Balachmar`	`(I want to buy one, if the second gen is released)`
`08:56.57`	`KwisatzHaderach_`	`hi all`
`08:57.17`	`*** part/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60.241.37.3)`
`08:57.43`	`CM`	`Balachmar: I know there was an error with the name in the qemu flashing that was fixed this morning`
`08:58.14`	`CM`	`About 5h ago`
`08:59.05`	`Balachmar`	`CM: ok I will try again, I have tried it yesterday so let's see if it is fixed :)`
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`08:59.45`	`CM`	`Balachmar: I hope so, if not, paste the error into pastebin.ca or similar and put the link here, and maybe someone knows a way around it`
`09:00.02`	`Balachmar`	`CM: will do, I have just started the proces`
`09:00.08`	`CM`	`Balachmar: I'm starting a new build now too, but can't test until I get home :)`
`09:00.16`	`CM`	`(home from work that is)`
`09:00.31`	`Balachmar`	`CM: I can... :) I will let you know`
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`09:17.52`	`mickey-tw`	`abraxa_: still here?`
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`09:38.01`	`jeddy3`	`how do you rebiuld package index (packages.gz) if you use homebrew repository`
`09:38.09`	`mickey-tw`	`bitbake package-index`
`09:38.37`	`Balachmar`	`I am still getting the same error as yesterday when trying to get openmoko built for qemu`
`09:38.51`	`Balachmar`	`error poster here: http://pastebin.ca/754845`
`09:40.26`	`jeddy3`	`mickey-tw, ah thats it, thanks`
`09:41.59`	`CM`	`Balachmar: Hmm.. Seems like mtd-utils is missing or something`
`09:42.32`	`Balachmar`	`CM: is that a package I should download myself?`
`09:42.52`	`CM`	`I think it should be built automaticly`
`09:43.01`	`Balachmar`	`ok`
`09:43.14`	`CM`	`I don't have it installed, but I think I've done a bitbake mtd-utils-native once`
`09:43.16`	`jeddy3`	`and another thing, how does people change the backgound on openmoko-today, like in screenshots in planet.openmoko or on scap? :)`
`09:43.17`	`CM`	`Wait a sec`
`09:44.11`	`jeddy3`	`CM, Balachmar, yes, I just built openmoko from scratch yesterday evening, and i had no problems regardning mtd-utils`
`09:45.08`	`CM`	`Balachmar: Try "cd build;source ../setup-env;bitbake -c mtd-utils-native"`
`09:45.08`	`jeddy3`	`s/regardning/regarding/`
`09:45.27`	`CM`	`From your moko directory that is`
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`09:46.15`	`CM`	`Balachmar: I assume you did make update-makefile;make setup update just a while ago or?`
`09:46.39`	`Balachmar`	`I just downloaded the make file again`
`09:46.44`	`CM`	`Ah, ok`
`09:47.06`	`Balachmar`	`And I only need to build the qemu stuff right?`
`09:47.13`	`CM`	`Then run the commands I posted above: make update-makefile;make setup update`
`09:47.36`	`CM`	`make qemu should work yes`
`09:47.45`	`Balachmar`	`ok, thanks that was my next line :)`
`09:48.28`	`CM`	`But if you want to run your own images, you'll have to build everything (Takes 5-12h depending on your comp)`
`09:48.38`	`*** join/#openmoko freelock_ (n=john@foraker.freelock.com)`
`09:50.23`	`Balachmar`	`well, first just checking the stuff out`
`09:50.27`	`*** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit)`
`09:50.44`	`CM`	`Ok :)`
`09:51.02`	`Balachmar`	`Do I need to build the whole stuff even if I just do some bugfixing for programs that are already in there?`
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`09:51.48`	`CM`	`Balachmar: Unfortunately I think so. You'll need the cross compile stuff to test things`
`09:52.26`	`CM`	`Also, it's not really much of a hazzle. Just do a make openmoko-devel-image and let it build for a few hours`
`09:52.42`	`Balachmar`	`CM: I know, let the computer do all the hard work :)`
`09:53.19`	`KwisatzHaderach_`	`i' m trying to build openmoko for i386 but build fails on u-boot compiling with \| hello_world.c:0: error: bad value (armv4) for -march= switch`
`09:53.36`	`CM`	`Balachmar: They (OpenMoko and OpenEmbedded) are working on making it easier for people to get the toolchain up and running for cross compiles and such`
`09:53.42`	`CM`	`But it's not done yet`
`09:53.52`	`guaqua`	`mtn: connecting to monotone.openembedded.org`
`09:53.53`	`guaqua`	`mtn: network error: failed to connect: Connection refused`
`09:54.06`	`guaqua`	`anyone else getting the same?`
`09:54.39`	`Balachmar`	`CM: I will manage (I hope) and if not, I'll be back here :)`
`09:54.48`	`CM`	`KwisatzHaderach_: That problem has happened to a lot of peole, not sure how to get around it`
`09:55.14`	`CM`	`KwisatzHaderach_: It shouldn't build uboot at all for i386`
`09:55.22`	`KwisatzHaderach_`	`CM, only when compiling for i386? of for fic too?`
`09:55.36`	`CM`	`KwisatzHaderach_: Only for i386`
`09:55.55`	`CM`	`Just finished a build for the gta01`
`09:55.59`	`Ghiottone\|work`	`hello`
`09:56.14`	`CM`	`guaqua: I did a make update just 1h ago or so`
`09:56.23`	`CM`	`Ghiottone\|work: Morning :)`
`09:56.30`	`KwisatzHaderach_`	`CM, i suppose than uboot for i386 not so important to run openmoko with xoo`
`09:56.56`	`CM`	`KwisatzHaderach_: Not at all, but I wonder what is pulling it in. Shouldn't be built`
`09:57.37`	`guaqua`	`hmm`
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`09:57.48`	`guaqua`	`i must be behind some sneaky firewall then`
`09:58.11`	`CM`	`XorA: Can dependencies be different depending on MACHINE?`
`09:58.31`	`XorA`	`CM: yes`
`09:58.45`	`XorA`	`CM: but please dont abuse that`
`09:58.52`	`guaqua`	`cos my home computer seems to be able to pull`
`09:59.33`	`KwisatzHaderach_`	`CM, strange thats compiler reports about unsopported arch`
`09:59.46`	`KwisatzHaderach_`	`*unsupported`
`10:00.47`	`CM`	`XorA: Ok, thanks`
`10:01.10`	`Balachmar`	`CM: I am still running into the same problem...`
`10:01.36`	`Balachmar`	`CM: maybe just try to compile it all?`
`10:01.59`	`CM`	`Balachmar: You could give that a try`
`10:02.12`	`CM`	`But I've built qemu before without trouble`
`10:02.22`	`*** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-45-150.dialup.xtra.co.nz)`
`10:02.39`	`CM`	`I mean without having the full openmoko-devel-image built`
`10:02.51`	`Balachmar`	`I know.`
`10:03.05`	`Balachmar`	`But just use make to compile it all?`
`10:03.43`	`CM`	`make all builds a lot of extra packages`
`10:03.59`	`CM`	`make openmoko-devel-image builds the kernel and rootfs`
`10:04.30`	`CM`	`Balachmar: You might want to update your local.conf file first`
`10:04.52`	`CM`	`Hmm.. Or maybe that's not needed either any more`
`10:05.12`	`KwisatzHaderach_`	`which pc can run qemu with neo1973?`
`10:06.03`	`CM`	`You mean how fast?`
`10:06.37`	`CM`	`I'd say OpenMoko is very slow in qemu on a AMD64 3000+ with 1gb ram`
`10:06.58`	`*** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.103.2)`
`10:07.32`	`KwisatzHaderach_`	`CM, thanx alot`
`10:07.40`	`*** join/#openmoko derFrank (n=Frank@Pa918.p.pppool.de)`
`10:08.33`	`*** join/#openmoko Philippe (n=fille@a91-153-17-113.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`10:08.54`	`CM`	`It's not unsable, but it's significantly slower than on a real Neo`
`10:09.50`	`guaqua`	`gmp-native still seems to fail :(`
`10:10.04`	`guaqua`	`maybe i'll update to gutsy later today and see if that fixes things`
`10:14.24`	`CM`	`guaqua: I just did a bitbake -c rebuild on gmp-native; NOTE: package gmp-native-4.2.1: completed`
`10:14.43`	`CM`	`Something is messed up in your build environment`
`10:15.41`	`guaqua`	`yep`
`10:15.45`	`guaqua`	`something sure is`
`10:15.47`	`guaqua`	`:)`
`10:16.35`	`torpor`	`yo dogs`
`10:16.38`	`torpor`	`whats up?`
`10:17.41`	`CM`	`torpor: How's it going with your bluetooth ideas?`
`10:19.15`	`torpor`	`i had a few other family things going on in the last few days .. but i'm working on it again today. i've added a basic panel to settingsGUI, now its time to get the plumbing worked out ..`
`10:19.29`	`torpor`	`i'll be coding on it tonigh (austrian time) and hopefully finished today.`
`10:19.38`	`torpor`	`then i'll send it to Ghiottone to integrate into the main release.`
`10:19.53`	`torpor`	`i gotta say it really is awesome to have keyboard support on the neo .. its a whole different machine. ;)`
`10:20.20`	`torpor`	`one thing: anyone know an easy way to get the fonts changed in the terminal app? i'd like to use a small font in landscape mode so that i can edit python code on the phone ..`
`10:20.28`	`anrp`	`less of a phone though`
`10:20.32`	`anrp`	`sadly ;/`
`10:20.47`	`torpor`	`when i get the bt gui working, i wanna do a demo video, and what better way to demo the functionality of a keyboard than to have a screen full of python code being edited on the phone .. ;)`
`10:21.06`	`Sup3rkiddo`	`CM, if i am not mistaken you run gentoo?...what kernel are you running, usb_gadgetfs.h has been removed from 2.6.23m so qemu doesnt build if gadgetfs support is enabled`
`10:21.16`	`torpor`	`anrp: i dunno about tht, the phone features are getting better by the week now .. i use my neo as a phone on occasion now ..`
`10:21.25`	`CM`	`Sup3rkiddo: I'm still on 2.6.22-gentoo-r6`
`10:21.43`	`guaqua`	`is this clock app using cairo? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/0a565f6400a444f6c312b6dbcaca9637.png`
`10:22.06`	`torpor`	`btw, cairo on the neo is lovely.`
`10:22.17`	`torpor`	`as is librsvg+cairo of course. ;)`
`10:22.21`	`Sup3rkiddo`	`CM: hmm..alright thanks, but i take it that you can ssh into your qemu`
`10:22.46`	`CM`	`Sup3rkiddo: Honestly, it failed to start last week that was last time i tried`
`10:22.50`	`CM`	`X hanged`
`10:22.50`	`torpor`	`CM: check you later in the day, hope to have a nice demo video to show off and a new settingsGUI out there too ..`
`10:23.06`	`CM`	`torpor: Cool! I want a bt keyboard too`
`10:23.28`	`CM`	`Sup3rkiddo: But yes, I had it working this summer`
`10:23.47`	`Sup3rkiddo`	`CM: oooh, ok, could you check is you have usb_gadgetfs.h under /usr/src/linux-*/include/linux//?`
`10:25.35`	`CM`	`Sup3rkiddo: Hmm.. I don't actually`
`10:26.20`	`CM`	`Sup3rkiddo: �h, forget that, I have: /usr/src/linux-2.6.22-gentoo-r6/include/linux/usb_gadgetfs.h`
`10:27.02`	`Sup3rkiddo`	`CM: alright thanks a lot, that puts things into perspective..=D, 2.6.23 doesnt have that header.be warned`
`10:28.14`	`CM`	`Ok, I'll wait with an update this time then :)`
`10:29.01`	`Sup3rkiddo`	`stupid me, now i have to emerge another kernel, copying over this file from an older kernel gives read erros...bah`
`10:32.58`	`*** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com)`
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`11:12.28`	`PBeck`	`hi`
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`11:27.36`	`Balachmar`	`Still not getting qemu to compile, I did notice that I didn't have all packages installed according to the makefile page`
`11:27.38`	`Balachmar`	`http://pastebin.ca/754991`
`11:28.15`	`*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-117-92.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`11:28.35`	`Balachmar`	`this bit is interesting I guess:`
`11:28.36`	`Balachmar`	`ls: /home/wligtenb/prive/openmoko/images/openmoko/uImage-2.6.*-neo1973.bin: No such file or directory`
`11:28.36`	`Balachmar`	`basename: missing operand`
`11:28.36`	`Balachmar`	Try `basename --help' for more information.
`11:30.27`	`*** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@cpe-071-077-055-135.nc.res.rr.com)`
`11:35.40`	`*** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@trl120133.kalvskinnet.hist.no)`
`11:38.50`	`*** join/#openmoko jleong (n=jleong@cparch01.ecn.purdue.edu)`
`11:39.38`	`*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net)`
`11:40.31`	`*** join/#openmoko raddy (n=raddy@59.96.46.60)`
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`11:44.29`	`raddy`	`Hello Everybody`
`11:44.34`	`CM`	`:)`
`11:45.05`	`raddy`	`Does the recent snapshots finally fix the gsmd bugs?`
`11:45.35`	`CM`	`The last week or two have been quite good`
`11:45.57`	`raddy`	`CM: is it automatically detect the network?`
`11:46.32`	`*** join/#openmoko wiitabix (n=vetetix@254.26-218-195.adsl.internet.lu)`
`11:46.34`	`CM`	`It does for me, but I've been running the same build since October 17th`
`11:46.46`	`*** join/#openmoko funktio (n=funktio@80-248-242-86.cust.suomicom.fi)`
`11:46.53`	`CM`	`Should update to a new rootfs`
`11:47.26`	`raddy`	`Can anybody else confirm if gsmd work flawlessly?`
`11:47.54`	`CM`	`I don't think it's flawless yet, but people seem happy with it lately`
`11:48.32`	`raddy`	`CM: is there a commit log?`
`11:48.58`	`CM`	`raddy: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/`
`11:53.47`	`*** join/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@88-96-30-68.dsl.zen.co.uk)`
`11:54.18`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: 03thomas * r3305 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c):`
`11:54.18`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked),`
`11:54.18`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: (on_keypad_pin_entry), (on_network_registered), (moko_dialer_init):`
`11:54.18`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: Clean up registration code (don't assume gsmd is broken!)`
`12:07.30`	`raddy`	`Anybody else there???`
`12:08.10`	`zash`	`where?`
`12:08.27`	`raddy`	`zash: here :)`
`12:08.46`	`LarstiQ`	`raddy: I'm not having problems.`
`12:08.51`	`*** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.79.141.64)`
`12:09.33`	`raddy`	`LarstiQ: from recent updates, or you wheren't having any problem since the begging?`
`12:09.54`	`raddy`	`sorry, beginning`
`12:10.12`	`raddy`	`LarstiQ:: beginning`
`12:10.18`	`CM`	`It was broken for me the whole of September`
`12:10.39`	`raddy`	`CM: ohh`
`12:12.06`	`raddy`	`CM: how can i determine the snapshot's month?`
`12:12.23`	`CM`	`On the neo, try cat /etc/version`
`12:12.47`	`raddy`	`CM: i mean before downloading`
`12:12.51`	`CM`	`if you mean on the buildhost or so, just look at the filename`
`12:14.41`	`CM`	`raddy: Download ScaredyCat's images if you want, he has from yesterday http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/`
`12:16.12`	`*** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-166-177.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`12:19.45`	`ruxpin`	`I'm thinking of ordering the neo1973 kit -- what's inside the advanced kit that's on sale for $450 on openmoko site?`
`12:19.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`see the list on the website`
`12:20.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`basically a debug board, and extra battery, and a nice case for it all.`
`12:20.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`and other stuff`
`12:20.47`	`*** part/#openmoko raddy (n=raddy@59.96.46.60)`
`12:20.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`You shouldn't need the debug board, unless you re-flash u-boot with a broken version, or do something unusual.`
`12:21.15`	`*** join/#openmoko raddy (n=raddy@59.96.46.60)`
`12:21.21`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yuou may want to check the Local Groups section on the wiki`
`12:21.39`	`raddy`	`CM: just checked out the version`
`12:22.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`ruxpin: to see if there are other users in your country.`
`12:22.16`	`raddy`	`CM : i was been running, 20071016`
`12:22.50`	`raddy`	`CM : would i still be benefited if i update to latest snapshot?`
`12:22.59`	`CM`	`raddy: That's fairly new, but I think that was a bad build.`
`12:23.08`	`CM`	`Yes, I'm sure the later ones are better`
`12:23.29`	`raddy`	`CM: ohh, in dialer too?`
`12:23.53`	`CM`	`Yes, i've seen a lot of updates to it lately`
`12:23.58`	`*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)`
`12:24.12`	`raddy`	`CM: ohh, thank you.`
`12:25.03`	`*** join/#openmoko Elessar_81 (n=Andreas@p5B05B9B2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`12:25.06`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: 03thomas * r3306 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c):`
`12:25.06`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_talking_reject_call): Stop ringing notification`
`12:25.06`	`CIA-13`	`openmoko: if we reject an incoming call`
`12:25.15`	`*** part/#openmoko Elessar_81 (n=Andreas@p5B05B9B2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`12:26.22`	`raddy`	`CM: i hope i don't need to update the kernel`
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`12:32.54`	`CM`	`raddy: Why not?`
`12:32.58`	`hrw`	`~lart openmoko`
`12:32.58`	`apt`	`cats /dev/urandom into openmoko's ear`
`12:33.05`	`hrw`	`1.8M free on gta01`
`12:33.13`	`CM`	`raddy: It just takes a few seconds to flash`
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`12:36.57`	`raddy`	`If anybody blog about the recent bug fixes, it will be very helpful for new comers`
`12:37.20`	`CM`	`raddy: I agree, it surely would`
`12:37.49`	`CM`	`raddy: Don't think there is though, yet, but it's been talked about in here before too`
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`12:44.55`	`thos`	`raddy: bug fixes to what?`
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`12:57.31`	`PBeck`	`re`
`12:57.34`	`mickey-tw`	`wb`
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`13:10.18`	`jeddy3`	`stefan_schmidt, ping ?`
`13:17.26`	`*** join/#openmoko lsobral (n=sobral@200.184.118.132)`
`13:21.00`	`CM`	`jeddy3: Not much response today. Don't know who else have played around with qvga`
`13:21.12`	`jeddy3`	`:)`
`13:21.21`	`*** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@dslb-088-074-054-136.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`13:21.21`	`CM`	`Maybe pH5 and koen?`
`13:21.25`	`CM`	`:)`
`13:21.29`	`jeddy3`	`thought i try once after lunch also ;)`
`13:21.55`	`*** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@dslb-088-074-054-136.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`13:22.08`	`Balachmar`	`Still not getting qemu to compile, I did notice that I didn't have all packages installed according to the makefile page`
`13:22.15`	`Balachmar`	`http://pastebin.ca/754991`
`13:22.16`	`*** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AC826.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:22.24`	`Balachmar`	`this bit is interesting I guess:`
`13:22.29`	`Balachmar`	`ls: /home/wligtenb/prive/openmoko/images/openmoko/uImage-2.6.*-neo1973.bin: No such file or directory`
`13:22.32`	`Balachmar`	`basename: missing operand`
`13:22.53`	`stefan_schmidt`	`jeddy3: Sorry, no time today and tomorrow. Just back in .de and tons of reallife stuff to handle. Back on thursday.`
`13:23.12`	`jeddy3`	`stefan_schmidt, ah, nod...no worries :)`
`13:23.34`	`CM`	`Balachmar: Maybe poke rwhitby about it, he wrote the Makefile`
`13:29.11`	`*** join/#openmoko tushyd (n=Bob@tdayal.student.iastate.edu)`
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`13:31.42`	`*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-117-92.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
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`13:35.36`	`tushyd`	`is it normal for qemu emulation to run extremely slow?`
`13:35.44`	`tushyd`	`i have a core2duo 2ghz, 1gb ram`
`13:35.54`	`*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-117-92.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`13:36.06`	`CM`	`tushyd: Yes, it's slow`
`13:36.18`	`CM`	`Especially to start up`
`13:36.38`	`tushyd`	`oh, good... i was worried that I did something wrong`
`13:39.28`	`*** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@81-208-31-222.ip.fastwebnet.it)`
`13:40.23`	`CM`	`tushyd: Have you build it recently?`
`13:40.38`	`CM`	`A lot of people seem to have problems getting it to build at all`
`13:41.30`	`tushyd`	`I built it a few weeks ago`
`13:41.46`	`CM`	`ok`
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`14:07.01`	`alphanet`	`hello, I saved all 5 partitions using the cat and nc stuff. I am now trying to replace the splash image (as a test, before scratching the kernel :->). Unfortunately the procedure doesn't work for me (I get a corrupted image). I tried the original 480x640x8 System_boot.png, with the splashimg.pl, gzip -9, but it's still garbled. Does someone have a splash partition I could simply try through dfutil?`
`14:08.14`	`*** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@cpe-071-077-055-135.nc.res.rr.com)`
`14:08.17`	`ScaredyCat`	`it comes out garbled because you didn't modify the environment to say how big the image was`
`14:08.49`	`alphanet`	`let's look`
`14:09.49`	`*** join/#openmoko xaid\|work (n=zaid@d39-33-195.home1.cgocable.net)`
`14:09.50`	`alphanet`	`splashimage=nand read.e 0x32000000 splash 0x5000; unzip 0x32000000 0x33d00000 0x96000`
`14:09.50`	`*** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`14:10.18`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: my memory map is: 0x00244000-0x002e4000 : "splash"`
`14:10.26`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: so I shall assume this is all wrong?`
`14:10.43`	`ScaredyCat`	`and is the file size 0x5000 ?`
`14:11.19`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: it is 0xB354`
`14:12.22`	`ScaredyCat`	`so you need to make it correct`
`14:12.25`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: in splashimage=nand read.e START splash SIZE; unzip`
`14:12.29`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: sorry`
`14:12.44`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: first, what is 0x32000? is this where the data will be copied in RAM?`
`14:12.56`	`ScaredyCat`	`yes...`
`14:13.27`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: ok. So, in the unzip A B C, the A is the RAM address, what re B and C?`
`14:13.35`	`ScaredyCat`	`don't get that wrong otherwise you might end up here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bricked`
`14:13.46`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: right :)`
`14:14.26`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: (that was the idea by first playing with the splash screen)`
`14:14.57`	`ScaredyCat`	`have a look in <your-build-dir>/openmoko/developers/werner/splash`
`14:15.04`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: ok`
`14:15.05`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: thanks`
`14:15.08`	`ScaredyCat`	`np`
`14:15.23`	`ScaredyCat`	`been there, broke it, wrote bricked page ;)`
`14:16.03`	`*** join/#openmoko rcostine (n=rjc@74.95.177.193)`
`14:16.55`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: another issue is: I saved all 5 partitions using the proposed netcat method, and the splash partition, even if copied exactly the same back, is empty. Looks like there is an awful lot of NUL out there. Ever experienced this?`
`14:17.22`	`ScaredyCat`	`no, I used dd to copy mine`
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`14:39.34`	`CM`	`thos: Cool blog post! :)`
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`14:45.08`	`florian`	`Sounds like this was some time ago :-)`
`14:46.16`	`Kero`	`it was :) Neo is much more convenient. Still have to get GPRS working, tho...`
`14:46.20`	`alphanet`	`okay`
`14:46.23`	`alphanet`	`it works`
`14:46.23`	`*** join/#openmoko Hopscotc2 (n=cd@touchdown.maintech.de)`
`14:46.35`	`alphanet`	`however scripts are somewhat defective`
`14:46.46`	`alphanet`	`let's see if I can update the wiki`
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`15:00.17`	`thos`	`CM: :-)`
`15:00.28`	`thos`	`CM: it means I can finally get some decent work done on the dialer`
`15:00.50`	`thos`	`plus we can work on making PhoneKit a reality`
`15:01.16`	`CM`	`nod Got to those conclusions too :)`
`15:01.17`	`robtaylor`	`thos: PhoneKit?`
`15:02.04`	`thos`	`robtaylor: read planet openmoko`
`15:02.25`	`Kero`	`thos: who is/are working on the dialer?`
`15:02.55`	`thos`	`Kero: I think more people are in the "were" category ;-)`
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`15:03.01`	`robtaylor`	`thos: nice :)`
`15:03.42`	`thos`	`Kero: but Chris and I will start doing some more work on it now`
`15:03.45`	`robtaylor`	`thos: have you heard about the DeviceKit plans?`
`15:03.46`	`Kero`	`thos: I'm interested in helping, from the point of integrating contacts, agenda and gsm functionality`
`15:03.57`	`thos`	`robtaylor: mickey's plans?`
`15:04.03`	`Kero`	`I would like to see them communicate well.`
`15:04.21`	`robtaylor`	`thos: no, davidz's`
`15:04.25`	`thos`	`Kero: a good start would be listing all the functionality`
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`15:04.42`	`Kero`	`thos: definitely :)`
`15:04.56`	`cb22`	`thos == thomas wood?`
`15:05.05`	`thos`	`cb22: greetings`
`15:05.14`	`CM`	`cb22: /whois ;)`
`15:05.17`	`cb22`	`heh`
`15:05.22`	`cb22`	`nice clock thos :)`
`15:06.20`	`Kero`	`thos: just getting dialer to adhere to gsmd state machine would already be a big improvement :)`
`15:06.34`	`Kero`	`s/adhere/track/`
`15:07.04`	`robtaylor`	`thos: in a nutshell, replace HAL with a sqllite database, config for which system daemons to activate for which hardware, and a set of standard dbus interfaces for the daemons to export for different hardware types`
`15:07.24`	`thos`	`Kero: unfortunately gsmd is pretty much stateless`
`15:07.34`	`Kero`	`thos: but the gsm modem is not`
`15:07.58`	`thos`	`Kero: yeah`
`15:08.05`	`Kero`	`"connected" being a big state that the dialer I upgraded to yesterday failed to detect properly`
`15:08.13`	`thos`	`Kero: at least, I can't seem to get any meaningful state out of gsmd ;-)`
`15:08.32`	`thos`	`Kero: incoming or outgoing call?`
`15:08.33`	`Kero`	`to the point of refusing to either dial out or ring on incoming calls (/tmp/gsm.log showed the incoming call!)`
`15:09.18`	`robtaylor`	`thos: sounds like PhoneKit would involve helping my dream of having a standard connection-oriented service in that set of interfaces ;)`
`15:09.34`	`Kero`	`most(?) AT commands have a querying mode, which can be used.`
`15:10.36`	`alphanet`	`ScaredyCat: will update the wiki as soon as I get the confirm e-mail. Thanks for directions.`
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`15:14.05`	`thos`	`Kero: if you are still having problems with the dialer, please file a bug`
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`15:17.30`	`gamin`	`the gsm modem still doesn't book into the network here using a uImage and rootfs from today. however, manually doing does work.`
`15:17.43`	`Kero`	`thos: and the gsm applet, too.`
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`15:18.09`	`Kero`	`and I'd actually expect those bugs to be well-known?`
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`15:18.51`	`thos`	`Kero: what in particular about the gsm applet?`
`15:18.53`	`gamin`	`i.e. submitting AT+CFUN=1 and AT+COPS with cu work and I see RING when called.`
`15:19.01`	`tushyd`	`any know if one can buy a gsm modem and make voice calls (not data) in ubuntu?`
`15:19.04`	`thos`	`Kero: it'd never hurt to file a bug if there isn't one already ;-)`
`15:19.10`	`gamin`	`but does not work with the dialer`
`15:19.56`	`thos`	`gamin: did you update the svnrevs?`
`15:20.14`	`gamin`	`thos: am using MokoMakefile`
`15:20.33`	`gamin`	`thos: so should be latest..`
`15:20.55`	`tushyd`	`anyone?`
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`15:22.17`	`thos`	`gamin: not sure about that`
`15:22.37`	`thos`	`gamin: check the package version`
`15:22.55`	`tushyd`	`no?`
`15:23.24`	`CM`	`gamin: I think the makefile is using the default oe settings for openmoko with those sane src revs or something`
`15:24.06`	`CM`	`tushyd: Never tried, maybe someone knows in the ubuntu forums?`
`15:25.55`	`mwester`	`The master makefile just wraps the standard OE bitbake mechanism; the sane srcrevs mechanism is part of OE. So all users outside of the openmoko developers themselves (who use the openmoko svn repository directly) will see the same set of "stable" svn versions in their build.`
`15:26.44`	`mwester`	`Someone (XorA, I think) needs to update the sane srcrevs list to "upgrade" the OE build to more recent svn development versions.`
`15:28.04`	`mwester`	`This is the major feature that has made builds work reliablly (finally). But the cost is that we (normal OE users) don't see the most recent checkins from the core openmoko developers until someone explicitly makes them available via the sane srcrevs. (or the insane srcrevs, which also exists IIRC :D)`
`15:30.14`	`CM`	`mwester: Thanks for the clear explanation :)`
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`15:34.29`	`Zachso`	`hi there`
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`15:35.14`	`Zachso`	`i dont know if this is the right place to ask: but where can I buy the neo in europe for reselling it?`
`15:36.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`At teh moment the answer is 'from the website'`
`15:36.09`	`CM`	`Zachso: I'm not sure either, but probably you should contact the shop@openmoko.com`
`15:36.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`there are no official reseller sources.`
`15:36.31`	`CM`	`SpeedEvil: Wasn't it someone here asking about that before?`
`15:36.43`	`SpeedEvil`	`However, if you want to buy several hundred/thousand, ...`
`15:37.00`	`Zachso`	`nonono, i dont want to buy one or two`
`15:37.26`	`Zachso`	`i want to put them in my onlineshop`
`15:37.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`Zachso: you can't`
`15:37.43`	`Zachso`	`why not?`
`15:37.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`Zachso: that part of it is not setup right yet.`
`15:37.55`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net)`
`15:37.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`Zachso: also - these are _not_ consumer ready devices.`
`15:38.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`Zachso: the phone part of it sort-of-works some of the time.`
`15:38.35`	`Zachso`	`i dont want to buy them now, but when they are readey, so as far as i know should this be in december, right?`
`15:39.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`Well, that's the latest word on hardware.`
`15:39.13`	`CM`	`HW hopefully, software won't be`
`15:39.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`Software is unlikely to be user-ready`
`15:39.41`	`Zachso`	`yes but i dont want to sell the software ;)`
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`15:41.12`	`Zachso`	`so, i have heard that there will be a office in france where european resellers can (in future) buy the devices, does anybody knows more?`
`15:41.14`	`gamin`	`thos: I have installed openmoko-dialer2_0.1.0+svnr3298-r5_armv4t.ipk`
`15:42.14`	`thos`	`<PROTECTED>`
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`16:30.06`	`zerowizard`	`hello`
`16:31.11`	`zerowizard`	`is anyone around to answer a few questions?`
`16:31.36`	`zerowizard`	`they are just questions about the phone and software in general`
`16:31.50`	`Ganneff`	`you should ask. if someone knows answers they will reply.`
`16:31.58`	`zerowizard`	`ok`
`16:32.16`	`zerowizard`	`how long is the current boot time on the phone?`
`16:32.31`	`zerowizard`	`about 1 and 1/2 minutes?`
`16:32.41`	`CM`	`Yes, about that`
`16:32.45`	`zerowizard`	`k`
`16:33.25`	`zerowizard`	`in the final revision, will openmoko be shipped pre-installed on the Neo`
`16:33.51`	`mwester`	`A lot less if you don't start the GUI. You can also speed it up by removing some services, such as the Avahi daemon.`
`16:33.57`	`zerowizard`	`also, what about current GTA01 (is openmoko already installed)?`
`16:34.19`	`CM`	`zerowizard: The current one doesn't have a working rootfs, but the retail one will of course`
`16:35.22`	`zerowizard`	`does openmoko have a command line console built in to the gui?`
`16:35.25`	`Vegar`	`what's the avahi daemon used for?`
`16:35.32`	`zerowizard`	`dns`
`16:35.43`	`CM`	`zerowizard: Yes, matchbox terminal`
`16:36.08`	`CM`	`zerowizard: A lot of this is in the wiki if you want more detailed descriptions :)`
`16:36.37`	`mwester`	`It's not necessary in the GTA01, as unless you have it on USB, or have bluetooth networking enabled, you don't need dns. IMO, avahi startup should be conditional on the startup of networking services.`
`16:37.07`	`zerowizard`	`i have looked in the wiki, but i havent found some of these questions`
`16:38.19`	`zerowizard`	`is the only way to become a developer, buy the phone and developer package? or is there a repository somewhere?`
`16:39.00`	`Vegar`	`zerowizard: svn.openmoko.org`
`16:39.12`	`zerowizard`	`thank you. you guys have been a great help`
`16:41.14`	`zerowizard`	`11,0`
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`16:53.31`	`Penguin_`	`hi room....`
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`16:57.19`	`zerowizard`	`:-\|`
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`17:08.14`	`Kero`	`thos: gamin says about the same I told you :) and I've got r32xx, too; not r3306. got an ipkg somewhere? Or do I need to figure out how to tell OE to use newest version?`
`17:08.49`	`thos`	`Kero: tell OE to get the newest version`
`17:09.09`	`thos`	`Kero: if you want really bleeding edge, use autorev`
`17:09.12`	`*** join/#openmoko sbeh (i=sbeh@serverstaff.de)`
`17:09.41`	`Kero`	`thos: OK. that means I'll only get to it next week. Travelling to USA tomorrow, RubyConference amongst other things.`
`17:09.55`	`thos`	`oh, good luck`
`17:10.20`	`Kero`	`might spend some time writing down functionality reqs, tho. That's easy in a plane.`
`17:10.33`	`thos`	`cool :-)`
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`17:25.58`	`zedstar`	`hi thos... since updating few days back that keyboard password dialog works correctly now`
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`17:31.10`	`abraxa_`	`Kero: JFYI - you enable autorev by putting "require conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc" into your local.conf`
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`17:31.46`	`abraxa_`	`When you then build the OM packages it'll fetch SVN HEADs for them`
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`17:55.02`	`Kero`	`abraxa_: thanks.`
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`18:01.43`	`torpor`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:01.46`	`torpor`	`404`
`18:01.49`	`torpor`	`damnit people why does this happen?`
`18:03.04`	`*** part/#openmoko WK1 (n=kahl@dsl-72-1-217.213.tel-ott.com)`
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`18:08.11`	`wirrwarr`	`tach`
`18:09.30`	`shred`	`n'abend (good evening)`
`18:09.38`	`Ghiottone\|work`	`a 404 should be normal as bitbake tries to get the source code first from openmoko.org`
`18:09.50`	`Ghiottone\|work`	`and then from the src_uri`
`18:10.17`	`Ghiottone\|work`	`torpor: does it stop with 404 or continues with the right download?`
`18:10.42`	`*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net)`
`18:11.06`	`thos`	`Ghiottone\|work: that's normal`
`18:11.33`	`thos`	`Ghiottone\|work: it checks for a cache version before trying vc`
`18:12.20`	`Ghiottone\|work`	`thos: I know. I was trying to answer to torpor`
`18:12.37`	`thos`	`oh sorry`
`18:13.54`	`Ghiottone\|work`	`thos :)`
`18:16.33`	`*** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADC2C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
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`18:18.26`	`Mypapit`	`i cao live without cam`
`18:18.36`	`*** part/#openmoko Mypapit (n=Mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit)`
`18:20.38`	`zash`	`NOO, MY COOKIES`
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`18:54.04`	`_buz`	`anyone tried this on neo? http://risujin.org/cellwriter/`
`18:56.10`	`abraxa_`	`_buz: Nope but it does seem very interesting`
`18:56.16`	`_buz`	`so i thought`
`18:56.27`	`_buz`	`it may even convince me to grab my portege again`
`18:56.35`	`_buz`	`i just wanted to put it on ebay tomorrow`
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`19:01.42`	`cjb_ie`	`i loved my portege, but then i got a lifebook`
`19:03.53`	`_buz`	`i got a latitude instead`
`19:03.58`	`_buz`	`proper desktop replacement`
`19:04.21`	`_buz`	`but the portege may just be the best tablet ever built (which isnt saying much though)`
`19:04.26`	`cb22`	`_buz, looks interesting`
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`19:04.50`	`*** join/#openmoko LetoT1 (n=paul@193.110.157.17)`
`19:04.54`	`CM`	`Cool app, never heard of it before`
`19:05.14`	`cb22`	`you played around with it yet?`
`19:05.32`	`*** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAEE8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`19:05.57`	`_buz`	`no`
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`19:06.05`	`_buz`	`tablet is not currently near me`
`19:06.09`	`Ghiottone`	`hello`
`19:06.13`	`cb22`	`hi Ghiottone`
`19:06.19`	`Ghiottone`	`hey cb22`
`19:06.21`	`Ghiottone`	`what news?`
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`19:06.51`	`Ghiottone`	`roh, ping`
`19:07.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`It was Newton that used Apple.`
`19:08.06`	`cjb_ie`	`groan`
`19:08.19`	`Joop`	`and it was Einstein that had ideas about time travelling`
`19:08.23`	`Vegar`	`what happened to the bi-weekly update last week?`
`19:08.25`	`Vegar`	`was there one?`
`19:08.42`	`_buz`	`actually, newton is more useful. could drop a piano on steve`
`19:09.09`	`cb22`	`Ghiottone, check out http://risujin.org/cellwriter/`
`19:09.10`	`*** part/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@csa001.cs.ualberta.ca)`
`19:09.16`	`cb22`	`from _buz, it looks rather interesting`
`19:09.47`	`_buz`	`actually, credit where credit is due, this comes from http://www.valdyas.org/fading/index.cgi/2007/10/30#cellwriter`
`19:10.00`	`*** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.232.32)`
`19:10.17`	`Ghiottone`	`cb22, mmm interesting!`
`19:10.20`	`Mek`	`I already thought it was a way too big coincedence to read it in that blog around the same time as someone mentioned it here :)`
`19:10.44`	`cb22`	`heh`
`19:11.20`	`_buz`	`apparently another planetkde reader ;)`
`19:11.43`	`_buz`	`wisdom of the crowds, ey`
`19:12.11`	`_buz`	`is the ML broken or something`
`19:12.25`	`_buz`	`close to no traffic today and my mail doesnt arrive either it seems`
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`19:13.32`	`Ghiottone`	`I remember trying a few weeks ago but it did not work. now it is working!`
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`19:30.49`	`_buz`	`wow the mailinglist has some bad lag, more than 30min round trip for a short mail`
`19:34.53`	`Mek`	`hmm.. cellwriter works quite nice on the neo :) http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/6b205f56926f89d361501029a1551709.png`
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`19:36.49`	`cb22`	`nice`
`19:37.11`	`thomasgruebler`	`hi`
`19:37.20`	`thomasgruebler`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu`
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`19:37.45`	`thomasgruebler`	`i want to get it run with this howto but the ./configure needs SDLLib`
`19:38.01`	`thomasgruebler`	`but there are so many deb packages and i already installed some of them`
`19:38.29`	`thomasgruebler`	`and the nex problem is: ERROR: Target 'arm-softmm' not recognised`
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`19:49.02`	`Ghiottone`	`cb22, I have put a package of cellwriter in my feed. have a look :)`
`19:49.11`	`Ghiottone`	`cb22, packaging it has been really trivial`
`19:49.15`	`cb22`	`haha, nice Ghiottone`
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`19:56.20`	`nelson`	`Has anybody actually built agg for openmoko?`
`19:56.56`	`Ghiottone`	`what's agg^`
`19:57.03`	`Ghiottone`	`s/^/?/`
`19:57.30`	`Ghiottone`	`cb22, I did not put any DEPENDS in the package. you may be missing something. please tell me if it happens`
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`19:59.07`	`nelson`	`agg == antigrain graphics.`
`19:59.27`	`nelson`	`It has a .bb file but nothing seems to rely on it ... good thing, since it isn't building.`
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`20:00.36`	`Ghiottone`	`uh?`
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`20:06.45`	`nelson`	`Ghiottone: agg is having an argument with libsdl over the location of sdl-config`
`20:07.23`	`*** join/#openmoko rcostin1 (n=rjc@74.95.177.193)`
`20:07.27`	`nelson`	`agg think it should be in a .../bin subdirectory, yet sdl puts it into .../bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/`
`20:10.43`	`Ghiottone`	`mmmm`
`20:10.47`	`Ghiottone`	`I'm having a look`
`20:11.05`	`*** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-212-100.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`20:11.16`	`mwester`	`symlinks are often a good way to end such arguments, especially when the real binary ends up in an arch-specific location. (toolchains do this often)`
`20:11.58`	`mwester`	`is there a <package>-bin.ipkg file that might contain the missing sym links?`
`20:12.08`	`nelson`	`I'd rather fix the problem the right that. That way, the package maintainers will accept the fix and the problem goes away forever.`
`20:12.30`	`nelson`	`^that^way`
`20:12.39`	`nelson`	`sheesh. "Talk much, Russ?"`
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`20:15.24`	`nelson`	`it's not a matter of a symlink. It's a matter of having the right stuff in the .bb file.`
`20:15.45`	`nelson`	`After all, sdl-net manages to build properly relying on sdl, so why shouldn't agg?`
`20:17.30`	`mwester`	`As long as it's a problem with the bb file -- I'm just noting that there are other packages that consider it a feature to have the arch-specific binaries in a arch-specific directory, and that perhaps agg might be one of those?`
`20:18.38`	`nelson`	`no, the location is fine; it's a matter to letting agg know where it actually is.`
`20:19.17`	`nelson`	`It's a shell script, so one could argue that it doesn't belong in an "arm-*" subdirectory.`
`20:19.33`	`nelson`	`In fact, everything in that subdirectory is a shell script, so I'd call it a botch.`
`20:19.58`	`nelson`	`Easier to fix agg than the dozen packages which put shell scripts into an architecture-specific subdirectory.`
`20:19.59`	`*** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand)`
`20:21.13`	`nelson`	`cool. That fixed it. Now on to other problems....`
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`20:24.55`	`Ghiottone`	`nelson, building package libsdl-native fixed building agg for me`
`20:26.15`	`Ghiottone`	`nelson, what did you do to fix it?`
`20:26.40`	`abraxa_`	`mwester: Did you have a chance to look at Stefan's patches yet? Just wondering :)`
`20:28.39`	`nelson`	`Ghiottone: changed this line: EXTRA_OECONF = "--with-sdl-exec-prefix=${STAGING_DIR}/${BUILD_SYS}"`
`20:28.50`	`nelson`	`to this: EXTRA_OECONF += "SDL_CONFIG=${STAGING_BINDIR_CROSS}/sdl-config"`
`20:29.34`	`nelson`	`Ghiottone: I'll try building libsdl-native.`
`20:29.37`	`Ghiottone`	`nelson, your seems a better fix`
`20:29.41`	`nelson`	`thanks for the suggestion.`
`20:30.03`	`Ghiottone`	`nelson, I tried adding libsdl-native to depends but with no luck. I had to do an explicit build package`
`20:30.24`	`Ghiottone`	`nelson, it could be wise to ask OE developers which is the right way to deal with this`
`20:33.15`	`mwester`	`abraxa_: Not really. I found them, and the discussion around them that included the retraction of one of the patches (?)... so I need to spend a bit more time on this, I think.`
`20:34.18`	`abraxa_`	`mwester: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch?rev=3238&view=markup is all you need :)`
`20:34.26`	`nelson`	`Ghiottone: will do. I built libsdl-native, but agg is getting hung up at do_populate_staging.`
`20:34.45`	`nelson`	`Fails to create a subdirectory in the distribution include directory.`
`20:34.58`	`mwester`	`abraxa_: Ok. Well that's easier. I wasn't aware that it was committed anywhere.`
`20:37.19`	`Ghiottone`	`nelson, try reverting your fix and trying again now that you have libsdl-native built (and staged)`
`20:37.29`	`mwester`	`Ok, I'll have to generate a patch against the version of that patch that's included in the standard kernel - that's no big problem. I'll work on this tonight.`
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`20:38.43`	`Ghiottone`	`I have to go now. bye all`
`20:39.11`	`abraxa_`	`mwester: Awesome. http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c2410_fb-line_length.patch?rev=3234&view=markup might also be needed, I don't think it was used with my version`
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`20:40.02`	`mwester`	`Well that one looks easy to add as well. And shouldn't affect anything else.`
`20:41.52`	`abraxa_`	`Yeah :)`
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`21:32.58`	`rwhitby`	`CM: Balachmar needs a more recent kernel with the neo1973 suffix, not the old fic-gta01 suffix.`
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`21:36.04`	`fasttorwa`	`hi`
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`22:19.58`	`CVirus`	`When shall there be an official release date ?`
`22:20.14`	`mjr`	`when it's done`
`22:20.44`	`CVirus`	`hopefully`
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`22:23.40`	`zash`	`'Release date: when its done' ftw :D`
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`22:28.36`	`hrw`	`its like with Debian: "Good things are for those who wait"`
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`22:37.01`	`CVirus`	`I've been told last week that the official release date shall be announced this week`
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`22:45.19`	`playya`	`some gutsy users in here?`
`22:45.37`	`playya`	`i maybe found the compile issue`
`22:45.44`	`playya`	`need tester`
`22:47.31`	`playya`	`i am close to the end`
`22:49.04`	`CM`	`There's many gutsy users in here (I'm not one though) but I guess it's a bit late european time where most people seem to be`
`22:49.15`	`*** join/#openmoko alfermp (n=ALEX_MON@145.sub-75-209-182.myvzw.com)`
`22:49.48`	`playya`	`i registered at the wiki and add my idea`
`22:50.05`	`CM`	`Good, wiki additions are great :)`
`22:50.21`	`*** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`22:50.23`	`playya`	`hmm`
`22:50.31`	`playya`	`same error few files later`
`22:50.48`	`playya`	`oh no different`
`22:50.49`	`CM`	`Is there anything about it in bugzilla?`
`22:50.51`	`alfermp`	`wich is the channel for openmoko spanish guys`
`22:51.26`	`CM`	`alfermp: Don't know if there is one. I know there's an -fi and -de channel, but maybe try #openmoko-es then?`
`22:51.56`	`alfermp`	`ok CM, do you know when openmoko is realsed?`
`22:52.02`	`alfermp`	`the final version`
`22:52.03`	`playya`	`#open-moko-de?`
`22:52.04`	`playya`	`great`
`22:52.20`	`playya`	`look at the topic`
`22:52.27`	`CM`	`alfermp: As playya said ;)`
`22:52.51`	`playya`	`:D`
`22:53.04`	`playya`	`now i run without strace`
`22:53.15`	`CM`	`alfermp: Shortly; the hardware will be realeased hopefully in december, but the software will take quite a while. I guess this spring at best`
`22:53.41`	`CVirus`	`What's an SPI-connected WiFi chip ?`
`22:53.42`	`alfermp`	`:-(`
`22:53.57`	`playya`	`strace says that for example /usr/share/local-langpacke/de/LC_MESSAGE/make.mo is not found`
`22:54.10`	`playya`	`thats why it is not installed normaly`
`22:54.12`	`CM`	`CVirus: External mod I guess, using the spi ports`
`22:54.14`	`Jiten`	`I do have a fresh install of gutsy on my test/gaming computer but it's missing quite a bit of software considering compiling anything.`
`22:54.23`	`CVirus`	`CM: SPI ?`
`22:54.31`	`playya`	`still wiating`
`22:55.07`	`CM`	`CVirus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus`
`22:55.20`	`*** part/#openmoko alfermp (n=ALEX_MON@145.sub-75-209-182.myvzw.com)`
`22:55.25`	`CVirus`	`CM: thanks alot`
`22:56.50`	`torpor`	`who got agg ported?`
`22:58.27`	`*** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FF795.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`23:00.03`	`abraxa_`	`Ohh... random X hardlocks due to a freezing GPU are fun.`
`23:00.13`	`abraxa_`	`Thanks, nVidia!`
`23:00.21`	`ewon`	`nice.`
`23:00.22`	`CM`	`abraxa_: :P`
`23:00.27`	`*** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2)`
`23:00.29`	`*** join/#openmoko lampus_ (n=stotz@212-41-96-88.adsl.solnet.ch)`
`23:00.31`	`*** join/#openmoko pjspjspjs (i=8fc36e71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-9fe74af78363b472)`
`23:00.46`	`abraxa_`	`Yeah, and I did think ATi was bad.`
`23:00.48`	`abraxa_`	`heh.`
`23:01.16`	`CM`	`I've only had trouble once with an nvidia card, and that was when lightning hit the house and todally fried it`
`23:01.39`	`CM`	`But then I'm not running that wobbly-stuff.. ;)`
`23:02.42`	`*** join/#openmoko pjspjspjs (i=8fc36e71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-81b4b8ce3305f40b)`
`23:04.30`	`summatusmentis`	`not to be annoying, I'm sure people get asked this a lot, is there a measure as to how far a long the software is?`
`23:04.55`	`*** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-30-55.cust.wildblue.net)`
`23:05.08`	`*** join/#openmoko BlueMaex (n=bluemaex@81.169.229.167)`
`23:05.12`	`CM`	`summatusmentis: Now it builds witout failing more than half the time, and you can make calls some times.. ;)`
`23:05.53`	`summatusmentis`	`lol, oh`
`23:05.57`	`CM`	`But seriously, it's improving fast but I'm sure it's 6 months until it's good to use every day`
`23:05.59`	`pjspjspjs`	`on the topic I'm slightly confused, will gps work on GTA02`
`23:06.14`	`CM`	`pjspjspjs: Yes`
`23:06.32`	`CM`	`Hopefully on GTA01 soon too, if only the lawyers finish their paperwork`
`23:08.06`	`faern`	`CM, so there is a gps device in the gta01?`
`23:08.20`	`CM`	`faern: Surely, and it worked already this summer`
`23:08.22`	`CVirus`	`CM: 6 month ?`
`23:08.44`	`CM`	`CVirus: I mean for commercial release. Nothing official for sure, just a guess or estimate`
`23:09.01`	`CVirus`	`CM: is the GTA02 meant for commercial end user release ?`
`23:09.05`	`CVirus`	`isn't&`
`23:09.06`	`CM`	`faern: The problem is that OpenMoko are not allowed to distribute the binary blob`
`23:09.23`	`faern`	`CM, oh. I see`
`23:09.40`	`CM`	`CVirus: It is, but the hardware released now in December will not have "end user quality" software`
`23:09.53`	`*** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk)`
`23:10.35`	`CVirus`	`CM: in terms of what exactly ?`
`23:11.12`	`CM`	`CVirus: Probably everything. Unpolished, powermanagement incomplete, theming, GPS software..`
`23:11.26`	`CM`	`Of course miracles can happen, I'm just being causeous ;)`
`23:11.46`	`*** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`23:12.07`	`CVirus`	`but the hardware would be ready in december I guess ?`
`23:12.25`	`CVirus`	`Harald Welte doesn't show up around here ?`
`23:12.28`	`CM`	`CVirus: That's the latst we've heard at least`
`23:12.36`	`hrw`	`bye`
`23:12.41`	`CM`	`CVirus: He does, but rarely say much (LaF0rge)`
`23:12.59`	`CM`	`CVirus: mickey\|away is a lot more talkative :)`
`23:13.09`	`CVirus`	`yeah`
`23:13.09`	`CM`	`(Also landing in FFM in about 6h)`
`23:13.09`	`faern`	`so are there any plans for a gta03?`
`23:13.11`	`CVirus`	`hehe`
`23:13.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`faern: no.`
`23:13.17`	`CVirus`	`FFM ?`
`23:13.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`faern: other than nebulous 'wouldn't it be nice' plans.`
`23:13.30`	`CVirus`	`faern: check the HXD8`
`23:13.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`As I understand it.`
`23:13.37`	`CM`	`SpeedEvil: Are you sure? Mickey has mentioned it..`
`23:13.41`	`SpeedEvil`	`Meh.`
`23:13.47`	`SpeedEvil`	`Maybe I am.`
`23:14.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`I don't think - as I understand it - the feature list has been frozen.`
`23:14.27`	`*** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-163.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw)`
`23:14.29`	`CVirus`	`FIC should start providing more info so people would decide weather they wait or buy the device or what`
`23:14.31`	`mwester`	`There are always plans for devices "in the future" -- just look at the concept automobiles at the auto shows. I expect that future "neo" hardware is little different in that regardl.`
`23:14.44`	`mwester`	`*regard`
`23:15.00`	`mwester`	`CVirus: Remember the Osborne?`
`23:15.06`	`CVirus`	`huh ?`
`23:15.21`	`CM`	`SpeedEvil: Ah, true. It will not be another hw revision of the Neo using the same shell as I got it`
`23:16.04`	`mwester`	`CVirus: The Osborne Effect: Pre-announcing your product too far in advance results in too few sales of current product to keep the company in business. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation`
`23:16.04`	`CVirus`	`gtg home .. later guys`
`23:16.20`	`CVirus`	`mwester: got that :-D`
`23:16.41`	`CVirus`	`gtg`
`23:19.49`	`*** join/#openmoko disguy__15 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-6cb4527c41a3d19f)`
`23:21.14`	`*** join/#openmoko shred (n=shred@p54918C3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`23:21.30`	`*** join/#openmoko ultr (n=ultr@staticline21783.toya.net.pl)`
`23:22.45`	`ultr`	`hello :) i have a question: what is the life time of neo1973 gta01 battery? and will it be extended in 02?`
`23:23.47`	`*** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com)`
`23:24.11`	`*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-117-92.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`23:31.23`	`thomasg`	`"Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers." - was the timeline correct? :)`
`23:34.01`	`*** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`23:35.19`	`rwhitby`	`thomasg: I aint got one yet :-)`
`23:38.40`	`thomasg`	`rwhitby: the same for me duck :)`
`23:39.08`	`pjspjspjs`	`don't all cells have gps`
`23:39.16`	`pjspjspjs`	`how come I cant use mine for nav`
`23:39.38`	`mwester-laptop`	`pjspjspjs: no, gps is not a standard feature on cell phones.`
`23:44.05`	`henrikw_`	`playya: I've got gutsy running, what do you want tested?`
`23:46.53`	`*** join/#openmoko DNAfanboy (n=cesar@foresight/developer/DNAFanboy)`
`23:48.56`	`*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=Administ@pD953A128.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`23:49.53`	`*** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@202.147.43.140)`
`23:58.59`	`*** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (i=500@poolofdespair.net)`
`23:59.34`	`*** join/#openmoko mindCrime__ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com)`

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