IRC log for #openmoko on 20071028

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00:45.50Stephmwhmm, quite a few inexpensive cellphone screens for sale on ebay
00:49.31xzcvczxbeauty of mass production
00:50.38Stephmwaye, now to find some online info on how they can be hooked up to stuff
00:52.27torporlame: no space left on device
00:53.13xzcvczxlol time to ipkg remove goatse.cx-archives
00:53.25torpori wish it were that easy
00:54.29xzcvczxim down to 2.7 mb free and thats with gpsd
00:55.18torportime for some policy changes in the openmoko camp i think.
00:55.26torpordefinitely things are getting screwed up more than they are improving.
00:55.34hozerhrrm.. how is gpsd working?
00:56.15torpori made a call with the latest openmoko image last night, for the first time since i got the neo 2 months ago
00:56.20torporworked okay
00:56.26torporcan't get gprs working though ..
00:57.10abraxa_torpor: Don't say that too loud, you might get more than you asked for
00:57.24torporreally?  like what?
00:57.37hozerhrrm.. I didn't have trouble making calls with images I built from a few weeks ago
00:57.44hozerreceiving didn't seem to work so well though ;)
00:58.02hozerPM was broken. The neo would wake up on an incoming call, but not trigger an incoming call dialog
00:58.17torporgood point, i did not test that.  ran out of disk space trying to install settingsGUI
00:58.46xzcvczxhozer: its not just got gps for programming purposes
00:59.02torporto be honest i have to wonder if the openmoko project is being funded to give poor-linux-tools some big press, so people can say 'told you so, linux blows' about the whole embedded thing ..
01:01.41microlithif it blew then no one would be using it
01:02.57torpori know that.  but the point is, all the open-source hype, and things are not improving.
01:03.50microliththat'd be an internal issue with openmoko then
01:04.02microliththere are other phone developers heavily into linux without problems
01:04.12torpori hope something is done about it, because its a hard sell to show someone an open source phone that doesn't work.
01:05.13xzcvczxtorpor: would you prefer something that works but has to be rewritten every 2 months as its not done properly
01:05.57torpori don't believe that if something works, it needs to be re-written.
01:06.20torporwrite it properly the first time, make it work. don't take so long doing it because you're unsure if its wrong or right.
01:06.33microlithtorpor: that implies that openmoko is written improperly as oppsosed to simply incomplete
01:06.51microlithopposed*
01:07.03torpori would argue that, 3 months after the release, with thousands of idle hackers, 'slightly incomplete' means more than just not done yet...
01:08.22xzcvczxwhat does it mean then?
01:08.26abraxa_torpor: No matter how you turn it - it just is impossible to lift such a massive project without a decent amount of people. OpenMoko just didn't have that till now and the people that do work for OM work their asses off. You really can't blame these people for OpenMoko's current state. If you want to blame anyone, blame FIC for not providing enough initial funding to get the project on its feet.
01:08.37torporit means that the decisions being made are getting in the way of developer progress
01:09.10xzcvczxits a company
01:09.40torporabraxa_: i'm not actually blaming anyone in particular, because there is nobody to blame.  what openmoko needs is leadership that is visible and active enough that idle developers can kick in and be used as a resource.  i think there isn't enough focus on this, and this is why we get cross-lines ..
01:10.42abraxa_torpor: I agree. That is a problem indeed. Sean was hoping he could fulfill that role but with him being the one in charge of way too many things this fell through... which again brings me back to my point: staff was needed.
01:10.49AriaYeah.
01:10.53torpori know 3 openmoko hackers in my area.  1 (me) is actively trying to put code on the phone.  the other 2 guys gave up in frustration and laugh whenever the neo is booted up, only to discover that calls aren't working, or that the root filesystem is stuffed full and still does not work.
01:11.20torporor that gps doesn't work.
01:11.21torporetc.
01:11.51AriaAnd me? I'm trying to build an isolated SDK
01:12.02torporhow will that work?
01:12.08abraxa_torpor: Those people who give up shouldn't have bought a phone, sorry.
01:12.19torpori've considered chucking openmoko off the neo1973 and going all gp2x on the thing ..
01:12.27AriaRPMs, crossarm-packagename.rpm and -devel.rpm for each
01:12.45AriaBuild using those, and make ipkg at the end
01:12.48torporabraxa_: i disagree with you entirely.  they bought the phone knowing there'd be problems.  they're justified in their position now that 3 months have passed.
01:13.17torporanyway i gotta really stop moaning about this issue and just get on with it.
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01:13.27hozerpretty much ;)
01:13.36hozerthose that can't code, complain ;)
01:13.47hozerbut I will complain a little about the build infrastructure ;)
01:13.47xzcvczxtorpor: rome wasnt built in 3 months :P
01:13.49torporso anyone got any recommendations for how to fix the disk problem?  i've got a mostly empty 512meg SD card in there .. is there some ipkg voodoo that can be done to move stuff over to the emptier filesystem easily enough?
01:14.02hozerat least the last time I did a 'make setup update ' it succeeded
01:14.25xzcvczxtorpor -l or something i think
01:14.41xzcvczxthere is a way
01:15.35xzcvczxtorpor: search ipkg on wiki'
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01:25.38abraxa_Aria: btw, you might have seen the URL in the channel before but just to make sure you took note of it: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/sdk/ might assist you in your pursue
01:26.00Ariaabraxa_: Yeah, kinda. It'd be a shortcut.
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01:34.25AntonTakkack, om/neo1973 related dreams  i think i need to get out more
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04:44.25hhf423moin!
04:45.11nelsonSo, how long do I need to leave my battery out to recover a locked up machine?
04:46.06hhf42320mins
04:47.15nelsonouch.  It's been several hours and still no backlight after holding power button for four seconds.
04:47.40nelsonShould I prepare bell, book, and candle?
04:47.50hhf423and a blacxk chicken!
04:48.35hhf423did you remove batter, remove USB and then wait 20mins and then put in battery and then attach USB and then try to power on?
04:48.44nelsonYes.
04:49.03nelsonHaven't reflashed; was working this morning.
04:50.17hhf423and nothing happens when you poer on?
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04:50.53nelsonnothing; not even the subtle backlight turn-on.
04:51.04nelsonDoesn't help to hold the option button while booting either.
04:51.22hhf423then do the following: remover battery, wait 20min, then put battery back in, attach to USB and wait for an other 20min and then try power on
04:52.04nelsonI've already done something like that, but  I'll try doing exactly that again.
04:52.17hhf423I have been through that hell
04:52.54hhf423I have extended the timeframes, but does exactly that. at some point in time it will work again.
04:54.08hhf423if it does not work the first time, go to 30mins, then even to 60mins for both steps.
04:54.08hhf423it sucks that the neo does not draw 100mA all the time via USB
04:54.22nelsonThanks ... I'll try that.
04:55.50hhf423any news on GPS?
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05:02.03mwesterhhf423:  There will be dancing in the streets; and great rejoicing everywhere (including this IRC channel) when that event might occur.  So, no.  No update.
05:03.13madwootalol
05:03.25hhf423ha, well. its still a little bit until chrismas
05:07.11mwesterI'd love to read Harald's memoirs, should he ever publish such a book.  I'm betting the GPS chip is one of the biggest debacles in the GTA01.
05:16.21hhf423right
05:16.38hhf423but I do not want a GPS outside of the neo, I want a GPS inside of the neo
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05:29.45doc|homemeh, sony
05:36.54roh*gnnn*
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06:15.00nelsonSo what's the issue with the GPS other than the fact that it requires software support?
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06:55.38Tenenelson: from what I understand, the issue is that there is no EULA for the driver yet.
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09:13.58jeddy3anyone knows the procedure to change to recentrly added qvga mode?
09:14.17jeddy3s/recentrly/recently/
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09:17.16techindianhi
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09:19.39Stephmwhmmm, wonder if it'd be possible to hook this baby up to a Neo? http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=637
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09:34.16torporStephmw: possible, but a bit funky.  what would be better is to just use this: http://pcworld.about.com/magazine/2203p072id114494.htm
09:34.28torporor something like it..
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09:35.40Stephmwbit on the bulky side :) I found this online too, but way too expensive, http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/mini-spy-camera-stick.html
09:36.16SpeedEvilGet a big cat.
09:36.17torporwell i'm sure that there are smaller and smaller bluetooth camera modules on the horizon, if not already around and available right now..
09:36.24torporand bluetooth works pretty damn well on the neo ..
09:37.22mickey-twit does?
09:37.28mjrevolution on this, then: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/06/06/cat-has-camera-on-co.html
09:37.41mjrmickey-tw, I think it does. If you don't want the wake-on-bt ;)
09:37.49Stephmwmjr: yeah, pretty much
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09:38.21PBeckmorgen
09:38.39SpeedEvilmjr: and you only want very short range.
09:39.21StephmwSpeedEvil: current cat is non-negotiable :)
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09:48.19Shoraganmickey-tw, does openmoko-devel-image build for you?
09:48.30mickey-twno idea, sorry
09:48.35mickey-twi have been distracted with meetings since i'm here in .tw
09:48.43Shoraganah, ok
09:48.52mickey-twi can issue a build from scratch in the office tomorrow
09:50.18Shoragandbench fails to install... but i've disabled it for now
09:50.35Stephmwmjr: on top of that camera module, there's a wealth of cheap-ish cellphone spare camera parts on ebay
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10:00.00dagonCan someone plz help me, when I start the Dialer, it shows me the message "Not connected to network current status = Waiting for network registration" instead of asking me for my PIN :( I have already edit the /etc/matchbox/session file but I've got still the same problem ;(
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10:04.50torpormickey-tw: i've been using bluetooth with my neo all week.  no the range does not suck.  i can use the bt wireless keyboard from apple with the neo from about 20 meters away.  this is really impressive actually.  i've become a bluetooth fan, and am setting up a permanent bt/pand network in my house to substitute for no wlan in the neo .. for my needs this shall suffice ..
10:05.13mickey-twcool. glad to hear that
10:07.16xkr47:)
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10:10.57dagon@all: can someone help me please? How do I make neo to ask me for my PIN, it don't aks for it when I starts the dialer.
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10:39.30Linux_Galore_looks like my dummy spit about the clock being too small and next to useless (I think others commented along the same lines too) has been heard http://chrislord.net/images/openmoko-today2.png
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10:41.10Linux_Galore_torpor: I wonder what class device the NEO BT chipset is, ie class 2 is about 10 meters class 1 is now 100 meters
10:41.19mjr2
10:42.57Keromwester: ping
10:43.28Linux_Galore_GTA02 will be great and the GTA03 will be the God phone heh
10:43.42Linux_Galore_One phone to rule them all
10:45.20torporLinux_Galore_: yeah i'm running this image right now and its great to have a useful clock in the neo
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10:45.44torporbut i'm not sure how to change the background ..
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10:46.06Linux_Galore_torpor: well my philosphy is if you have something on the screen it should be functional and readable. putting a clock in the tittle was neither
10:46.09cb22maybe just look for all pngs or so and change them?
10:46.49StephmwLinux_Galore_: there's value in a small clock as long as it's not the primary representation of time
10:46.56StephmwLinux_Galore_: during a call for instance
10:47.28Linux_Galore_Stephmw: well the clock should be on the home screen
10:47.42Stephmwincidentally, this is the way my W880i does things... LARGE clock on idle screen, small status clock during calls and in menus
10:47.44torpori'd say this clock is perfectly functional.  all thats needed now is a way to set an alarm and give it a sound for playback.
10:47.46Linux_Galore_then vary depending on what your doing
10:47.51StephmwLinux_Galore_: ^^
10:48.48torporin my opinion whats needed is a far better 'app is starting' cursor/display.  its very difficult to maintain stability on the phone right now when you start an app and are not sure if its loading or not.
10:48.51Linux_Galore_Stephmw: my HTC tytn II is the same, home screen has a big clock then it becomes a minor thing on other screens
10:49.08torporit would be good also if some apps were written to be singletons - i.e. would only allow themselves to be launched once.  like settingsgui for example.
10:49.17mmazurYup.
10:49.20torporand the dialler.
10:49.35torpori'm sure there's a mechanism for doing this, but its just not a priority for some reason.
10:50.42Linux_Galore_dialler is a priority
10:53.54Stephmwany ideas if we have a UX designer on the OM team?
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11:12.00cb22torpor, a nice app is starting thing would be the spinny ajax circle thing IMO
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11:22.32torporcb22: i don't know it, got a URL?  i've been ignoring web app development, coz i think its lame. ;)
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11:27.00cb22hehe
11:27.03cb22you know in FF
11:27.09cb22the little spinny thingy
11:27.22cb22i'll get a link now
11:27.28torpori don't use ff
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11:28.24cb22http://www.ajaxload.info/
11:28.48cb22then click on the combo box
11:29.41torporah pretty good
11:29.52torporquite ubuntu'like
11:29.59cb22yeah
11:30.09torpori guess that openmoko has something like this, but its sort of borked or disabled in the current build or something ..
11:30.48cb22probably
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11:40.28Stephmwinteresting, prpplague commented on that sparkfun camera module...
11:40.56Stephmw!seen prpplague
11:40.57cdbot2prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) was last seen quitting from #openmoko 2 days, 16 hours, 30 minutes ago stating ({"Leaving"}).
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11:56.05wibbitDoes any one know what Channel Chris Lord happens to hang out in?
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11:57.52rob_whow is the neo `s suspend doing .. when will we be able to use it with a full suspend resume cicle ?
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12:12.20stynxhi
12:17.09stynxsomebody into providing some help to a newbie?
12:18.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 965 has been created by douglas.furlong(AT)gmail.com
12:18.02cdbot2* * Tme widget/appllet Placement
12:18.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=965
12:21.00playyastynx, i'm a newbie too
12:21.10playyabut what do you wnat to know?
12:21.35stynxhi, nice to meet jou fellow newbie ;)
12:21.49viq_Did anyone think of making/porting some kind of budget tracking application to OM?
12:22.20stynxI probably broke the thingie by following these instructions:
12:22.24stynxhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Ipkg
12:22.54stynxAnd I need to know if this is fixable, or a 'need to reflash' :
12:23.10stynxroot@fic-gta01:/etc/ipkg$ ipkg update
12:23.11stynxipkg: relocation error: /lib/libgcc_s.so.1: symbol __gnu_Unwind_Find_exidx, version GLIBC_2.4 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference
12:23.11stynxroot@fic-gta01:/etc/ipkg$
12:23.14stynx?
12:24.22stynxI'm talking about the neo1973 btw
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12:28.26stynxI've got my answher I'm afraid, kernel panic with reboot
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12:30.51stynxAnother question, is the Wiki (wiki.openmoko.org/wiki) a good source for documentation about flashing and updating? Or is there a betterplace to look for (rtf) manuals?
12:30.56torporstynx: fwiw i set up another ipkg on sd card and it works great; but i use ipkg-link mount
12:31.09torporwiki is fine
12:31.20torporask q's here if needed
12:31.40stynxnot about this update, wondering what went wrong, but i'm to late now to find out ;(
12:31.51stynxthanks torpor for the tip
12:32.36torpordid you move your libs dir around or something, or hack with .profile to add a path to ld_config_path or something like that?
12:32.44stynxnoop
12:32.52torporyou should get used to flashing frequently, btw.. things are changing with openmoko almost daily ..
12:32.56torpori flash almost every day
12:33.00stynxonly thing I did was make it route trhough my laptop
12:33.12stynxOwkee, than lets learn to flash
12:33.15torporand have installed the 'important' stuff on SD card now, too, so i can survive a flash and still have my needed apps.
12:33.35stynxthats a good one ;)
12:33.44torporbtw, its really a good idea to have an external SD ipkg repository, because the default image is almost full ..
12:34.51stynxI will set it up after I've learned to and survived the flashing
12:34.58stynxThis one is ok: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko
12:35.01stynx?
12:35.32torporsure
12:35.51stynxThanks, also not clear, I do not need to update u-boot, do I?
12:36.49torporyou should, but to be clear: it depends how old yours is.
12:37.01torporand if you do the u-boot update you gotta erase the full nand first.  see the wiki.
12:37.14torporit requires setting up the usbserial console so you can tell uboot what to do..
12:37.25stynxyes I see, but the debug board is not over here ;(
12:38.00torporyou don't need it to erase the nand .. you use uboots builtin serial console that operates over usb
12:38.05torporbut check the wiki about this first, please.
12:38.32stynxI'm reading
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12:50.45stynxowkee, I got a mountpoint usbfs, dfu-util on laptop. Now I need to download the images for the neo1973
12:51.51stynxAlso over here a warning aboutflashing the u-boot:
12:51.54stynxhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util
12:53.52stynxA BV4 fone is a phase 1 phone?
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13:15.13abraxa_stynx: Yep
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13:41.24stynxthanks abraxa_
13:41.51stynxSeemed to have flashed the thingie and booted ok :-)
13:42.25abraxa_Good job :)
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13:43.14stynxThanks, for everything there's a first time. Looks totaly different.
13:45.45stynxOther question: that upper bar, with battery, network, etc. Is that an application?
13:46.08stynxIt seems so, it's gone now, after flashing, but dunno
13:46.47Mekit is quite buggy and thus crashes most of the time...
13:48.30abraxa_stynx: Yes, that's the matchbox-panel application
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13:48.53abraxa_And yes, one of the panel applets makes it crash - that bug has yet to be found and fixed
13:49.12stynxAh wokee
13:51.24stynxIts fun, and I'm glad its running again :)
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13:51.55stynxNot my phone, boss dropped it on my desk (at lunch) here, see what you can do with it. uhhh
13:52.38stynxabraxa_ can you please tell me what lines you have in your ipkg/base-feed.conf?
13:53.07mickey-twre
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13:54.51abraxa_stynx: I have no base-feed.conf as a matter of fact
13:54.56abraxa_And hiho mickey :)
13:55.06mickey-twservus
13:55.17mickey-twso, stefan and daniel on their way back
13:55.31abraxa_And you follow the next couple days?
13:55.34stynxah
13:55.38mickey-twyep, leaving in two days
13:55.53abraxa_I bet your wife will be happy :)
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13:56.32abraxa_stynx: Do you have troubles with ipkg or why are you asking?
13:56.56mickey-twabraxa_: she will. she misses me.
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13:57.19mickey-twwhich is a good thing, i think :)
13:57.36abraxa_mickey-tw: Definitely - I know the feeling just as well
13:58.16mickey-twthis year, i've been travelling more than in my entire life before
13:58.26mickey-twabsolutely insane, i need to stop that
13:58.35abraxa_And now it makes sense to me why you were up so late last night - with Stefan and Daniel leaving I'm sure you wanted to make this night fun =)
13:58.53mickey-twabraxa_: hehe, right
13:59.22stynxabraxa_ I've had troubles with ipkg this morning, made me to need to flash the phone agian
14:00.16abraxa_stynx: Ah okay. Let me know if there's anything you need a hand with
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14:00.37stynxused the wiki links (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Ipkg) and ended up with glibc errors and an unusable phone
14:00.52stynxThanks abraxa_ , will keep in mind. :-)
14:01.42stynxI'm into trying it again, no I know that flashing is not as scary a I thought. (it is, still, but it works ;)
14:02.12abraxa_mickey-tw: btw, if you feel like meeting again sometime... I'd be up for it :)
14:02.33mickey-twabraxa_: oh absolutely, are you back in germany?
14:02.55abraxa_mickey-tw: Been since Oct 5th, yeah
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14:03.17mickey-twabraxa_: cool. give me some time to get my life back on track and lets aim for something in two weeks or so
14:03.53abraxa_mickey-tw: Sure thing - the girl always comes first ;)
14:04.40abraxa_stynx: Yup, as long as you don't flash u-boot you aren't risking anything so you can do whatever you want - even flash Qtopia ;p
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14:06.09stynxhehe, I must confess, I thougt about that a moment this morning ;)
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14:06.59stynxabraxa_ But I wont do at this moment, its running now, so back to playtime
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14:38.50stynxabraxa_ You are living in germany?
14:42.05abraxa_stynx: Yeppers
14:42.36stynxabraxa_ :) Than you've had the same clock settings tonight? (I live in holland)
14:42.44abraxa_Yeup :)
14:44.13stynxabraxa_ Waking up with daylight now for a vew weks, thats nice
14:45.21torporwhere abouts stynx?
14:45.25torpori used to live close to holland ..
14:45.36torporhave many dutch friends
14:45.42stynxtorpor Rotterdam, working in Delft
14:45.44torporand only a couple german ones. ;)
14:45.47torpori see.
14:45.53torporgood friend of mine lives in den haag.
14:45.59torporused to visit quite a lot
14:46.01stynxI do have a German friend, but he lives in holland now
14:46.09torporand i have family in hellofoetslaus ..
14:46.36torporwhere do you work that your boss hands out neos?
14:46.58stynxtorpor that is not that far away from here. When cycling I sometimes go to hellvoetsluis
14:47.17stynxOne neo ;) Fox-it (.com)
14:47.20torporboring place really.  like most of holland.
14:47.42stynxSometimes, indeed. Rotterdam is ot that boring ;)
14:47.57torporcan't really remember rotterdam much ..
14:48.18torporbut anyway .. glad you got your  moko running.  now write some apps, and let them not just be boring IT security apps! :)
14:48.30stynxhumzz.. gegege
14:49.11stynxI'm tot start with more interested to have it running, and than maybe apps and/or encryption
14:49.35stynxRunning, and behaving well seems a priority ;)
14:49.36torporwrite a bluetooth sniffer for it.
14:51.31stynxWill talk about it. But now my boss only want to know if it works.. Euhhrr.. yes if you are a player. Depending on what you understand about working ;)
14:51.55stynxI'm still wondering if updating will kill it again
14:51.55torporshow him openmoko working (it does) and then show him qtopia working.  that should shut him up.
14:52.08stynxThats a good idea gege
14:52.10torporand don't forget to show him regular updates, because thats whats happening with the project right now: changing frequently.
14:52.40torpori have no clue how you goofed it up before, it doesn't really make much sense.  unless your uboot is quite old and you ran into the overlapping kernel/filesystem problem.  it could be that.
14:53.11stynxAnd I need to tell him I need a dedicated Linux ws, or more time at home to play (eeurrhh work) with it
14:53.45stynxMaybe, but uboot cant't be that old, I assume
14:54.10torporbad assumption.  it could be.  there were early bugs with uboot that got stomped on quickly.  
14:54.29stynxHow do I check?
14:54.50torporget into the uboot console .. hold aux+power on boot.
14:54.52stynxthis thing is a gta01
14:54.57torporthen read the wiki
14:55.19torporthere are only gta01's in the general public right now, so unless otherwise stated, consider us all gta01 users in here.
14:55.23stynxstill open on 3 tabs ;)
14:55.31stynxowkee
14:57.02stynxover here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko
14:57.19stynxI cant see 'check uboot version'
14:57.37torporhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot
14:57.53stynxdamn .. I'm sorry
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15:07.30stynxah, probably pretty old 'U-boot 1.2.0-moko9_r8_ etc Mau 19 2007)
15:08.31torporso .. get into console, do a NAND erase, re-install.  
15:08.41torporfrom that point on things should be a bit safer.
15:09.18stynxThat would be nice. How serious are all these warnings about not doing this unless you have a debug baord at hand?
15:11.40zecke|assignmentserious...
15:12.07CoreDumpand rightly so
15:12.41stynxk, taking that serious. And waiting till tomorrow evening, I will bring it home with me
15:12.48CoreDumpIt would be wise to only use an already tested u-boot image
15:13.06stynxthat sounds very reasonable
15:13.33mickey-twg'night
15:13.49CoreDumpn8 mickey-tw
15:13.58torporits not *that* difficult to screw it up.  i'd say do it now, as the worst that can happen is that you will have to wait until tomorrow to de-brick it.
15:14.00stynxn8
15:14.00mickey-twfwiw, the 2007.08 snapshot uboot is the last known good as far as I'm concerned
15:14.35stynxThanks
15:15.58stynxand thats probably somewhere else than in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/
15:15.59stynx;)
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15:38.49playya1582 of 5029 gogogo!!
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15:39.13henrikwheh, making devel-image?
15:39.21playyayes
15:39.27playyaon my laptop
15:40.18henrikwseems you have som hours to go then :p
15:40.24playyamake qemu-* dont work
15:40.31playyaoh yeah
15:40.33henrikwoh?
15:40.41henrikwwhat error?
15:41.02playyasome problem discribt in bugzilla
15:41.07henrikwok
15:41.09playyawith gutsy
15:41.29playyanot enough experience with openmoko to fix it
15:41.58henrikwah, I just upgraded my desktop, but my buildbox is still feisty.
15:42.06playyahehe
15:42.14playyaatm i have no buildbox
15:42.42playyai live @grandma while doing my practical semester
15:42.43henrikwthe laptop will do just fine :)
15:42.56playyaonly 1.76GHz
15:43.02henrikwpractical? what do you practise?
15:43.30playyai need to work half a year for my study
15:43.39playyai m at nokia in bochum
15:44.00henrikw1.76GHz will du just fine on a sunday ;)
15:44.14playyayes and its getting cold outside ;)
15:44.16henrikwah, like an internship?
15:44.23playyano
15:44.28playyai study in germany
15:44.32henrikwok
15:44.37playyawe have to do it
15:44.55henrikwnice to work there?
15:45.02playyai dont know if there is sth like this in other countries
15:45.07playyayeah great
15:45.18playyai love it
15:46.13henrikwyoull have to do some openmoko campaining then :p
15:46.25playyahehe
15:46.54playyai have to watch out that no nokia employee see me in here ;)
15:47.04henrikwhehe :D
15:47.15playyan810 is great but has no gsm, umts stack
15:47.33playyaan thats why i buy a OM
15:47.56playyaand OM is cheaper :D
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15:49.50henrikw:)
15:50.03gaminis there any sound recording app available in the feeds?
15:50.19henrikwhm. don't know :/
15:51.12abraxa_arecord ;)
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16:03.55kristian-mwhy is the battery-model named GTC-01/GTA-01 - is there an other fic device using it? - what does GTA stand for anyway?
16:04.57mypapiter
16:07.29torporgamin: i am working on one.
16:07.36torporplayya: i used to live in recklinghausen
16:07.41gaminabraxa_: thanks for the tip. I tried arecord, but records only silence. May be some wrong setting on alsamixer...
16:07.41torpor5 mins from bochum
16:07.58playyayeah i know
16:08.08torporyou do?
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16:08.33torporwe talked about it before, or .. ?
16:08.34playyais live in gelsenkirchen
16:08.39playyano
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16:08.58playyai know that recklinghausen is near bochum
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16:10.42gaminhas anybody tried gpe-soundbite for recording?
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16:13.23abraxa__gamin: Well, arecord uses ALSA directly so it might collide with PulseAudio which does the same
16:14.09gaminabraxa_pulseaudio is shutdown here as I currently use madplay (don't beat me :-)
16:15.30abraxa__Well, in that case I can only say: try the two capture*.state files or have fun with the mixer settings ;)
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16:16.53torporwhat i wonder is if it going to be possible to record calls, and play back audio files mid-call ..
16:17.18torporthen we could make a nice python based IVR system for some customer support apps that run directly on the phone .. this is something that linux would do very well with, since no other phones can do it.
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16:23.18abraxa__torpor: Definitely
16:23.28anrp(in the US) recording calls is very consult-a-lawyer-first if you don't have consent
16:23.39anrpfor any reason
16:27.27torporyeah but just coz the US is so, doesn't mean it has to be so for the rest of us.  and we can definitely sort that problem out as well by including disclaimers, etc.
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16:32.05Sup3rkiddotorpor: hmm..i kinda have that in the pipeline, binding gsm now, wanna help?
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16:33.59torporSup3rkiddo: would love to!  i'm going to finish the bluetooth panel in settingsGUI first though.  had a few problems with it this weekend - neo ran out of disk space, but thats fixed today so i'll try to have a release tomorrow.
16:34.09torporthen i want to work on some audio apps.  i've got a soundboard app in the pipeline.  
16:34.22Sup3rkiddocool
16:34.47Sup3rkiddokeep hanging around..will let you know once i finish atleast some of the stuff..
16:34.49torporso i'll definitely be interested in your progress.  i take it your focus is on in-call recording and sample playback?
16:35.35Sup3rkiddotorpor: yeah call recording in general, but my idea is to just give some API..its the app devels job to use that
16:36.17Sup3rkiddodunno about the playback part though
16:36.33torporwell i've done some IVR work in the past, and would love to have a simple way for managers to create call scripts and sessions that work *on* the phone, rather than at the switch.
16:36.39torporespecially with a nice GUI for tracking and such ..
16:36.48gaminabraxa__: works well, thanks. first time I could test the micro and headset as my gsm still no cooperative
16:37.22Sup3rkiddotorpor: to be honest i havent done anything like that..=|
16:39.57gamindoes anybody have experience with the stowaway keyboard?
16:40.25gaminthe apple bt is a bit big for carrying around...
16:40.55torporgamin: i've had stowaways in the past, for my collie, and other pda's.  but i' using an apple bt wireless with my neo right now.
16:41.05torpori wouldn't think its too big for carrying around, actually.
16:41.26torporfor me its almost the perfect form factor.  
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17:46.33matsimotohi out there, how can I prevent gsmd from running ? update-rc.d -f remove gsmd is not sufficient. Is there another place where I can stop it permanently ??
17:48.11torpormv `whereis gsmd` /root
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17:48.53playyanot the best way
17:48.56osmosisIs there a preference for carrier?  Tmobile or AT&T ?
17:49.02playyaremove it via pt
17:49.48playyaapt
17:50.36matsimotoplayya: no other way ?
17:51.22playyaremove the entry in the rc
17:52.05playyaOM is dpkg based
17:52.26torporwhy do you want to do that anyway?
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17:52.42playyathen sudo dpkg-reconfigure gsmd
17:52.56playyaan then change to init.d instead of deamon
17:54.22matsimototorpor: just playing around with the GSM.Modem. After calling update-rc.d remove I thought autostart will be disabled but it is not.
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17:56.20matsimotoplayya: I dont have apt-get or dpkg do I have to install them via ipkg ?
17:56.31playyaoh ipkg
17:56.42playyai do not have a moko yet
17:56.57playyamaybe there is a ipkg-reconfigure?
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17:57.39matsimoto?? I am totally unexperienced in using ipkg ... time to read some man pages I think.
17:57.50playyamaybe
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18:00.41stynxmatsimoto http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Ipkg
18:00.59stynxdid a lot rtfm myself today ;)
18:01.34matsimotonice, thanks.
18:03.34stynxyw, glad to do something little back over here
18:04.56stynxoh wow, just found 'xrandr -o 1'
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18:06.57stynxprob a good idea Stephmw :-)
18:07.07SpeedEvilIt crashes mine :/
18:07.37stynxOh bummer, gives me a nice landscape term instead af the 'normal' one
18:09.28matsimotodoes anybody know how I can reject an incoming call with at commands ? Do I have to answer and immediatley hang up or is there special at command for this ?
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18:27.37ljpmatsimoto: AT+CHLD=0
18:27.43playyaif i have compiled the openmoko stuff could i move it to a different directory?
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18:28.36matsimotoplayya: I have moved it to my USB disk and use a link from moko to the disk. Works fine for me.
18:29.06playyahave you link it to the original path?
18:29.38playyai think about throwing open suse away and give the partition to open moko
18:30.02playyaare 14 gig enough for the whole OM?
18:30.10torporyes you have to maintain the paths
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18:30.16matsimotoplayya: yes , I linked /home/moko to the directory on the disk where I stored my build env
18:30.27torporif you use rm_work its about 8gigs.
18:31.12matsimotoif not and you use MokoMakefile with update ... It could be more.
18:31.27matsimotothats why I moved it to the USB disk
18:31.32playyawith all the object files?
18:31.48matsimotoyepp completely.
18:32.04playyai dont want to do a complete recompile on every update
18:32.32torporyou don't have to.
18:33.38torpori have been running a mokomakefile-based OM build setup for a few months now, and it works fine to do a daily update and make all.  you have to put up with the occasional problems - people seem prone to checking things in that are not surviving a fresh build, alas - but for the most part you can maintain an updated build setup on a daily basis pretty easily ..
18:34.30playyaok
18:34.43matsimotoWhen gsmd is not started at boot time and I enter stty -F /dev/ttySAC0 crtscts ssh and phone freezes !? any ideas why this happens ?
18:34.45playyafirst compile an then adding a cronjob
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18:35.55matsimotoljp: perfect! Thanks.
18:36.23gaminMokoMakefile now pulls in qtopia??? oh.
18:36.55mwestermatsimoto:  openmoko bug #788
18:37.03mwester!ombug 788
18:37.04cdbot2* * Bug 788, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
18:37.05cdbot2* * mwester(AT)dls.net: Starting or stopping gsmd completely locks up the Neo
18:37.06cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788
18:38.53zecke|assignmentgamin: why now? What part of qtopia?
18:39.06mwestermatsimoto:  You can either remove the "console" arguments from the bootargs variable in your uboot, or flash a patched kernel to fix that hang.  A pre-patched kernel can be found at http://moko.mwester.net/
18:40.07matsimotomwester: *shiver* changing the uboot environment is a bit risky isnt it ?
18:40.44gaminzecke|assignment: qtopia-core-opensource-src-4.3.2.tar.gz
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18:42.18gaminzecke|assignment: hmm, uicmoc4-native-4.3.2-r0 is the reason for this
18:42.38mwestermatsimoto:  It can be, I suppose.  Flashing the pre-patched kernel, or adding the patch into your build environment will avoid the need to mess with the uboot environment.
18:43.14zecke|assignmentgamin: and the true reason is qmake2 needed by webkit
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18:43.51matsimotomwester: I think, I will take a look at UBoot environment just to be sure to looked at, and after this I will flash your kernel :)
18:44.11gaminzecke|assignment: and I thought openmoko prepares to switch the toolkit ;-P
18:44.26gaminjust kidding
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18:53.43torpormy moko build dir is 7.4G, btw, i use rm_work, and i do a make update at least every day ..
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19:05.43kristian-mzecke|assignment do you plan to remove the searchbar in openmoko-feedreader someday?
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19:25.11Stephmw~v12
19:25.12aptv12 is probably the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/
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19:36.24gaminfoss.in has quite a cool program. And Harald talking about OpenMoko...
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19:37.46mwester-laptopless talk, more action would be better.  JMO.
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19:50.01Kerohi mwester-laptop
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20:23.56CIA-13openmoko: 03abraxa * r3294 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (20 files in 2 dirs):
20:23.56CIA-13openmoko: Load playlist after creation and go to track page
20:23.56CIA-13openmoko: Make startup fade-in smoother
20:23.56CIA-13openmoko: Other minor changes and cleanups
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20:42.20encompassdoes anyone know if openmoko takes internships?  I am a python developer that want to stick with open source technology :D
20:42.50encompassI tried emailing the jobs line and it didn't work... got a delivary error.
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20:50.40Ghiottonehello
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20:53.51hhf423moin!
20:54.06hhf423so there is a satscan ipkg now? grrreat!
21:01.59kristian-mhi Ghiottone
21:02.14LarstiQGhiottone: heya
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21:03.34LarstiQGhiottone: the smstool tarball listed from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SMSTool doesn't work for me
21:04.24LarstiQhhf423: http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/satscan/satscan_1.0-r0_armv4t.ipk ?
21:04.42hhf423yes, http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/satscan/satscan_1.0-r0_armv4t.ipk
21:04.56hhf423hmm, does not give an icon in programs?
21:06.30hhf423ah, it requires an export DISPLAY=:0.0
21:06.36kristian-mLarstiQ what exactly is wrong with SMSTool?
21:06.43hhf423cooooooool!
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21:07.57abraxa_hhf423: Why are you so excited about satscan?
21:08.20hhf423abraxa_: why not?
21:08.36hhf423abraxa_: this is the first progress I see on GPS for months
21:08.54abraxa_Are we talking about http://www.satscan.net ?
21:09.14LarstiQkristian-m: it does a 'from smstool.ProcessInterface import *', which ImportErrors
21:09.27hhf423abraxa_: we're talking about this: http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/SatScan.html
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21:10.28Ghiottoneback
21:11.10CoreDumphttp://xkcd.com/149/ < lol
21:11.35abraxa_hhf423: Ahh okay, I didn't know about this
21:11.56hhf423CoreDump: this guy is great isn't he?
21:12.11CoreDumpindeed, I love his comics
21:12.14hhf423abraxa_: this is fair to get excited about, right?
21:12.15LarstiQkristian-m: I was blindly following instructions on that page, which doesn't work. Give me a moment to actually think for myself and fix things.
21:12.46Ghiottonewhat's up?
21:12.46abraxa_hhf423: Yeah, if that's your kinda thing :)
21:13.31zecke|assignmentCoreDump: haha 331 is funny as well...
21:13.34Ghiottoneuh?
21:13.50Ghiottonewhat's this question mark thing?
21:14.00kristian-mLarstiQ ProcessInterface.py is part of SMSTool
21:14.07hhf423Ghiottone: http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/SatScan.html
21:14.10CoreDumpzecke|assignment: yeah =) I ready his comic daily
21:14.24kristian-mLarstiQ try installing from Ghiottones repository
21:14.31Ghiottoneah yeah satscan. I tried it sometime ago
21:14.41Ghiottonehey kristian-m
21:15.09LarstiQkristian-m: right, but the code is written so as not to work from source, and setup.py requires python-distutils
21:16.17Ghiottoneany news about gllin?
21:16.49hhf423Ghiottone: not really: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/10/28/almost-back-in-germany/
21:17.33Ghiottonehhf423, yeah I read it. that's good news!
21:17.59Ghiottonehhf423, it also mean that openmoko staff has been growing recently which brings more workforce to the project
21:18.14kristian-mLarstiQ you can just copy the directory to your neo and create an smstool dir, then copy ProcessInterface.py to it and try starting again
21:18.25LarstiQkristian-m: bah, that's hackish :P
21:18.42Ghiottonekristian-m, LarstiQ what's the topic?
21:18.50kristian-mLarstiQ you could also change SMSTool.py to import ProcessInterface directly
21:19.05kristian-mGhiottone he tryes to install smstool from the tar.gz
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21:19.37LarstiQkristian-m: may I suggest moving the modules under a package directory?
21:19.50LarstiQkristian-m: ie, SMSTool-0.3c/smstool/ProcessInterface.py
21:20.02kristian-mLarstiQ when writing the setup.py i did know how to use directories in the archive... - next version will have that
21:20.10LarstiQkristian-m: cool
21:20.22CoreDumphttp://xkcd.com/162/ <- this is some deep shit
21:20.25kristian-mwell shame on me for now ;)
21:20.51LarstiQkristian-m: if you want any help on distutils or anything, feel free to poke me
21:21.03GhiottoneCoreDump, lol!
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21:21.57Ghiottonehttp://freegis.org
21:22.44kristian-moh, matchbox-keyboard can do dvorak, strange
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21:32.08hhf423hmmm, satscan does not find a sattelite
21:33.03kristian-msame here
21:35.19LarstiQhhf423, kristian-m: if I stand at the window, the question marsk do modify the field, giving me *,^ and =
21:36.45kristian-mLarstiQ not here and the neo is next to the window - maybe it's not always working...
21:38.54LarstiQkristian-m: I have a pretty clear sky atm, not sure how important that is.
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21:46.25CoreDumphttp://xkcd.com/249/
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22:18.44zecke|assignmentmwester: where is 'new' in the entry?
22:19.46mwesterzecke|assignment:  O
22:20.07mwesterzecke|assignment:  The first paragraph.
22:21.42mwesterI knew about the webkit development, but the new stack, esp. the Telephony part, was kept pretty quiet.
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22:24.32CMHe seemed generally happy too, and that's always good :)
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22:26.23mwesterAnd he strongly implies that there is still hope that the GTA01 may see a firmware update to fix the GSM modem issues, and even a driver of sorts for the GPS -- both items that I personally gave up on a long time ago as not in Openmoko's corporate best interests.
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22:27.17CMmwester: I've always had hope for the GPS at least :-)
22:28.24mwesterAlong with the news that Harald is done with the GTA02 hardware that seems to have consumed every bit of Openmoko's resources, to the almost complete abandoning of the GTA01 community, there is reason for a lot of optimism.
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22:30.11Ghiottonehey CM
22:30.41Ghiottonethe xserver has been crashing a lot lately... does this happen only for me?
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22:46.31mwesterDoes anyone know when the switch to the 2.6.23 kernel will be happening?   (i.e. should new kernel patches be based on the existing 2.6.21 kernel, should the existing patches that are still waiting in bugzilla be rebased for 2.6.23?)
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23:15.39CMGhiottone: Evening :)
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23:24.39dsilvais it possible to deploy a kernel as an ipkg?
23:24.52dsilvaor only as a uImage with dfu-util?
23:24.55Mekno, the kernel must be flashed to a separate partition
23:25.07dsilvahmm ok
23:25.19dsilvaand the mokomakefile target then would be 'make build-package-linux' ?
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23:28.07mwesterdsilva:  theoretically one could set up things such that the kernel could be deployed as an ipkg; uboot can boot from the sd card so with the right changes to the uboot environment and the build system, it should be possible to boot entirely from the sd card.
23:28.48mwesterAFAIK nobody is currently doing such a thing.
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23:36.45dsilvamwester: ah ok
23:37.03dsilvamwester: well, deploying the uImage isn't really a problem, dfu-util is pretty convenient
23:37.26dsilvamwester: still, how do you usually build a kernel though? with mokomakefile?
23:38.40mwesterI usually just use bitbake, but mokomakefile is just a wrapper around bitbake, so it amounts to the same thing.
23:38.57dsilvamwester: bitbake with the linux target? bitbake -c build linux  ?
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23:40.23mwesterI just do bitbake openmoko-devel-image  -- once the cache is built, it really doesn't take much more time, and it's easy.
23:40.52dsilvamwester: but i thought that openmoko-devel-image was the entire userspace
23:40.59mwesterYes.
23:42.19dsilvamwester: yeah, i don't need to refresh my userspace, just the kernel :)
23:43.12mwesterIt takes very little time (less than 30 seconds on my system) for bitbake to determine that my userspace is up-to-date, and move on to building the kernel, if that's all I've changed.
23:44.27dsilvamwester: ah ok
23:44.39mwesterIf  you can't spare the 30 seconds ;) then "bitbake linux-openmoko" should shortcut directly to building the kernel.  :)
23:45.27dsilvamwester: sorry, one more question -- if I want to change the kernel code, I guess I should delete the do_compile stamp?
23:45.44mwesterYep - that's how I do it.
23:45.59dsilvamwester: ok, thanks
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23:48.18mwesterOnce you're happy with your changes, put them in patch form, drop them in openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko with the other patches, and edit openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko.bb to add the reference to your patch, and increment the PR value in that file.  Openembedded is really pretty easy once its set up.
23:50.43dsilvamwester: I thought it was openembedded/packages/linux/linux_2.6.21.bb
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23:52.38kristian-mdsilva you've made a patch right?
23:53.20dsilvakristian-m: not yet
23:53.34dsilvakristian-m: i want to try applying the cpufreq patch
23:53.41kristian-mdsilva just changing the code couldn't work as the kernel dir would be overwritten
23:53.48dsilvakristian-m: this one: http://www.evolware.org/chri/paciugo/cpufreq.patch
23:54.12kristian-mdsilva i guess the way to du it would be to place the patch into that archive dir
23:54.29dsilvakristian-m: hmm ok
23:54.48dsilvakristian-m: i thought the kernel dir would only be overwritten if you erased the do_unpack stamp
23:55.05kristian-mdsilva okay, can be
23:55.32kristian-mdsilva then it could work
23:56.06dsilvakristian-m: i just have to make sure to keep a copy so it doesn't get overwritten when bitbake unpacks again later I guess
23:57.00kristian-mdsilva okay, tell us if it worked then :-)
23:57.05dsilvakristian-m: ok :)
23:57.23*** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=alphaone@2001:638:602:af01:0:0:0:1)

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