| 00:02.49 | thomasg | mickey|away: is your nick-status wrong? :) |
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| 00:27.07 | Ghiottone | mmontour, yeah it should. but unfortunately it does not seem to work :( I probably need more time on it |
| 00:27.51 | Ghiottone | nite all |
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| 00:44.02 | oppiz | hey |
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| 00:55.29 | abraxa_ | heya |
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| 01:13.11 | CIA-13 | openmoko: 03andrew * r3291 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/pty.c: Add a simple tool for forwarding the modem port between Neo & a PC. |
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| 02:49.11 | nrnsfbgsbr | hii |
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| 03:31.37 | ianj | i'm just starting out app development for OM, can I use glade for gtk? |
| 03:33.23 | ianj | or better yet, pygtk? |
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| 04:20.07 | ianj | can i use gtkmm on openmoko? |
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| 04:55.23 | ianj | what is the link for the tutorial to emulate OM with X? |
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| 05:13.21 | lysanderslair_ | wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Xoo or wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Xephyr |
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| 07:17.59 | neclimdu1 | evening |
| 07:18.35 | neclimdu1 | i was playing with the openmakefile and its failing pretty early during one of the fetches |
| 07:19.44 | neclimdu1 | fetching http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/trunk_svn.o-hand.com_.repos.eds-dbus__now.tar.gz |
| 07:22.19 | neclimdu1 | too late for a quick responce in here i see ;) well hopefully they'll be something in the morning. |
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| 07:52.12 | jeddy3 | good morning |
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| 07:55.42 | jeddy3 | anyone knows if latest kernelimages contains qvga patch?, it should right? |
| 07:57.02 | torpor | whats the big deal with qvga? |
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| 07:57.52 | jonib1 | :q |
| 07:58.19 | jonib1 | oops... sorry. wrong window! |
| 08:04.43 | jeddy3 | torpor, nice for mplayer |
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| 08:13.13 | ishiboo | sorry for asking... I relaize this is a developer phone, just curious if I'm experiencing the norm or something unusual |
| 08:13.22 | ishiboo | I got a new moko and flashed it with both the sep 3 and current images |
| 08:13.26 | ishiboo | and the phone is pretty darn slow |
| 08:13.30 | ishiboo | I also changed the cpu speed to 266 |
| 08:14.32 | ishiboo | is that normal? |
| 08:14.50 | ishiboo | the scrolling of the basic menu takes forever, takes a real long time to switch between apps, CPU usage is very high when doing anything |
| 08:20.41 | jeddy3 | ishiboo, scrolling feels snappy for me |
| 08:21.21 | ishiboo | when I switch between options on the bottom |
| 08:21.27 | ishiboo | you can see different parts of the screen render |
| 08:21.31 | jeddy3 | ishiboo, and takes a couple of seconds to start an app, not blazingly fast...but seems kinda OK |
| 08:21.54 | jeddy3 | ishiboo, that does not sound normal |
| 08:22.09 | ishiboo | odd |
| 08:22.18 | ishiboo | like I said, I flashed two different root fs/kernels |
| 08:22.44 | jeddy3 | try to run top in ssh and look for the process taking all the cpu |
| 08:23.09 | ishiboo | it's today, the keyboard app, dialer, and X |
| 08:23.49 | jeddy3 | hmm, ok |
| 08:24.08 | jeddy3 | sorry, no idea |
| 08:24.14 | ishiboo | so |
| 08:24.23 | jeddy3 | have to go in to town now |
| 08:24.25 | ishiboo | your experience is this is something that speed-wise could be sold as a phone? |
| 08:24.32 | ishiboo | because what I have is not nearly fast enough |
| 08:26.46 | ishiboo | again, don't think I'm looking for a finished phone, but it seems like the CPU is completely incapable of running X/etc with how it works now :) |
| 08:31.15 | KzN_ | the cpu is more than enough ishiboo, those are software problems |
| 08:31.18 | SpeedEvil | IMO, speed is _completely_ adequate. - X speed. |
| 08:31.28 | KzN_ | you can try qtopia on your neo if you want to get a feel of the speed |
| 08:31.33 | SpeedEvil | It's quite snappy enough running stuff over USB-net |
| 08:31.53 | ishiboo | yeah if I ssh in while the phone is idle (backlight off) it seems quick |
| 08:31.57 | ishiboo | but the ui is pretty slow |
| 08:32.02 | SpeedEvil | The problems with the software at the moment are that all the effort is going into getting it sort-of-working |
| 08:32.12 | SpeedEvil | and none into speed optimisation. |
| 08:32.15 | ishiboo | why is there a full version of X instead of something like nanox? |
| 08:32.50 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, they are just teaching the pig to sing, getting it in tune will be later. |
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| 08:33.03 | KzN_ | dunno the reason ishiboo, seems weird to me too that they are using X |
| 08:33.06 | ishiboo | thats no problem, I don't plan on using any of the existing software for the most part |
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| 08:33.13 | SpeedEvil | ishiboo: I've run a full version of X on a 486/75 and below. |
| 08:33.25 | SpeedEvil | A full version of X is not the problem. This is _Fast_ hardware. |
| 08:33.28 | ishiboo | speed: yeah, fair point. I've had X on a 66mhz pentium and it was damn quick. |
| 08:33.39 | ishiboo | *ponder* |
| 08:33.51 | ishiboo | wonder if I can ssh in and start just a normal X server without running the moko software |
| 08:33.54 | ishiboo | I can't see why not right? |
| 08:33.56 | SpeedEvil | Part of the problem is the complete lack of video accelleration. |
| 08:34.14 | ishiboo | oh so there arn't fb drivers for the video chip |
| 08:34.16 | ishiboo | that's a big issue |
| 08:34.25 | SpeedEvil | you can start the normal server, do xhost +, and run your own wm and apps on it remotely |
| 08:35.49 | ishiboo | sweet that works |
| 08:35.56 | ishiboo | wow. |
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| 08:37.39 | ishiboo | for the GSM |
| 08:37.47 | ishiboo | is there any access to data or just phone right now? |
| 08:38.11 | SpeedEvil | See 'Manually using GPRS' on the wiki |
| 08:38.24 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if the more recent firmware supports this |
| 08:38.39 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if the more recent images support turning this on automatically. |
| 08:39.58 | ishiboo | odd |
| 08:40.03 | ishiboo | after xhost + it is still rejecting my connection |
| 08:40.38 | SpeedEvil | you've done export DISPLAY=192.168.0.202:0 ont eh other side? |
| 08:40.55 | ishiboo | yeah |
| 08:40.58 | ishiboo | it sees the connection and denies it. |
| 08:41.21 | SpeedEvil | xhost again - see what it is |
| 08:42.01 | ishiboo | xhost + does not disable anything, running "xhost" right after shows access control is still on |
| 08:42.06 | ishiboo | and xhost +ip does not add it either |
| 08:42.48 | SpeedEvil | I'm sorry, I'm not woken up properly. |
| 08:44.52 | ishiboo | there we go |
| 08:44.55 | ishiboo | passed -ac to Xfbdev |
| 08:44.59 | ishiboo | removed the access control. |
| 08:45.13 | SpeedEvil | ah - that's it, yes, forgot about that. |
| 08:48.51 | ishiboo | the display is so awesome it makes all the old X apps look modern |
| 08:49.40 | SpeedEvil | It is insanely good. |
| 08:50.02 | ishiboo | the display seems to have a much higher dpi than my iphone |
| 08:50.14 | ishiboo | this is a fucking sweet platform to work on |
| 08:51.28 | SpeedEvil | The display is 285dpi |
| 08:54.18 | ishiboo | yeah. needs graphics drivers |
| 08:57.06 | SpeedEvil | There is nothing to drive |
| 08:57.14 | SpeedEvil | the hardware is a simple framebuffer. |
| 08:57.22 | SpeedEvil | There is no accelleration at all |
| 08:59.51 | ishiboo | so the graphics won't get faster? |
| 08:59.54 | ishiboo | blitting is really slow |
| 09:00.11 | SpeedEvil | Blitting could concievably be offloaded onto the DMA units |
| 09:00.20 | SpeedEvil | GTA02 has a hardware video accel chip |
| 09:00.42 | ishiboo | GTA02 is the same exact screen right |
| 09:01.31 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 09:03.34 | StealthCP | any information about that chip? |
| 09:03.56 | SpeedEvil | no detailed |
| 09:04.34 | StealthCP | I see. |
| 09:04.44 | StealthCP | Just interested to know who makes it. |
| 09:05.57 | SpeedEvil | smedia |
| 09:09.28 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF8F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:11.32 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-117-92.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:13.24 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 09:13.45 | ishiboo | can you change the clock speed from linux? |
| 09:14.45 | CIA-13 | openmoko: 03andrew * r3292 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/neo1973.xml: Import more GSM functionality from troll.xml (GPRS, phonebook, SIM filesystem, etc). |
| 09:16.45 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 09:18.13 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 09:20.46 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-169-037.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:21.12 | *** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org) |
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| 09:25.14 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@nsc.ciup.fr) |
| 09:25.16 | bedboi | hi all |
| 09:25.55 | xzcvczx | hi |
| 09:36.39 | *** join/#openmoko krLun (i=Blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 09:40.43 | krLun | anyone know if it would be possible to run windows CE on a neo? :) |
| 09:43.13 | robster | krLun: almost certainly |
| 09:43.44 | krLun | hi btw |
| 09:43.45 | krLun | :) |
| 09:43.57 | krLun | i just wanna know my options |
| 09:44.33 | krLun | it seems like there will be plenty! i read that trolltech is swifting focus from their greenphone to neo, and then theres the openmoko system, and now also winCE |
| 09:44.41 | krLun | shifting* |
| 09:45.13 | cjb_ie | but how would you get it? can you buy winCE on its own? how would you install it? where would you get drivers for the hardware? |
| 09:45.58 | krLun | i assume its purchasable? |
| 09:46.21 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 09:46.21 | krLun | otherwise it wouldn't be a very good product |
| 09:46.22 | krLun | :) |
| 09:46.51 | cjb_ie | krLun: i've only ever seen it sold with a device that it's already installed on. |
| 09:47.20 | krLun | maybe i can re-use the wince on my HTC phone |
| 09:47.23 | cjb_ie | http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/aa714410.aspx How to Buy Windows Embedded Operating Systems |
| 09:48.00 | krLun | anyway, i wonder how difficult it will be to get your hands on a gta02 in december :) i mean, its like the entire world is just sitting and reloading the wiki to find a pre-order link |
| 09:48.36 | krLun | and im guessing "massmarket" only means producing a few hundred times more units than the gta01, in the first batch? |
| 09:50.22 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 09:50.29 | SpeedEvil | GTA01 has sold several thousand |
| 09:50.31 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 09:52.11 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 09:54.54 | doc|home | have they sorted out customs stuff yet? |
| 09:55.06 | SpeedEvil | that's your problem |
| 09:55.17 | SpeedEvil | recent reports have pay->get taking a week or so (in the US) |
| 09:55.27 | SpeedEvil | where are you? |
| 09:55.31 | doc|home | and courier options? |
| 09:56.29 | SpeedEvil | fedex or UPS |
| 09:56.32 | SpeedEvil | I forget which |
| 09:56.40 | SpeedEvil | $40 or so to europe IIRC |
| 09:57.32 | doc|home | in canada, but may be in europe |
| 09:57.56 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.177) |
| 09:58.03 | doc|home | it's the VAT which is the killer :/ having a distribution centre in the US could help that, as would it being considered a computer rather than a phone I think |
| 09:58.09 | doc|home | er, in europe |
| 10:01.19 | SpeedEvil | I don't think canada was in europe last time I checked. |
| 10:02.59 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: VAT has to be charged at some point - that's the whole idea |
| 10:03.21 | doc|home | <doc|home> in canada, but may be in europe |
| 10:03.29 | SpeedEvil | If it's imported at an artificially low price, then the importing company pays 1/2 the normal VAT |
| 10:03.31 | doc|home | people move you know? :) |
| 10:03.49 | SpeedEvil | However, you then pay the other 1/2 when it's sold to you |
| 10:04.04 | SpeedEvil | the same VAT charged is the same as if you paid the VAT directly. |
| 10:04.12 | SpeedEvil | s/same// |
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| 10:09.38 | *** join/#openmoko daidalus13 (n=pmonk@host81-149-249-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 10:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 10:13.33 | daidalus13 | ... |
| 10:13.35 | *** part/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 10:13.41 | daidalus13 | just read about openmoko on the web. makes a lot of sense. will definitely check back in a couple of months to see the sate of the project |
| 10:14.30 | *** part/#openmoko daidalus13 (n=pmonk@host81-149-249-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 10:15.13 | krLun | SpeedEvil, still, 100x "several thousand" won't be enough for the community waiting for gta02 :) |
| 10:15.25 | krLun | thats the feeling i get, everyone is excited about it |
| 10:15.36 | Tyrael | Hi, is there some problem with webkit-gtk-0.1+svnr26915-r3 and binutils? What is a working svn version? |
| 10:15.40 | krLun | so i still think they will be sold out the first day |
| 10:16.23 | *** join/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 10:20.13 | *** part/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 10:22.51 | Tyrael | Sorry, WHICH is a working svn version for binutils and webkit-gtk? |
| 10:23.00 | Tyrael | I'm sleeping... |
| 10:23.18 | cb22 | speaking of buying gta02, is the price confirmed? |
| 10:23.21 | cb22 | at $450? |
| 10:28.16 | SpeedEvil | Well - it's confirmed as anything gets. |
| 10:28.20 | gamin | cb22: if the dollar drops 2:1 to the euro, the price is ok. Otherwise I may buy another gta01. |
| 10:28.20 | abraxa_ | stefan_schmidt: ping |
| 10:28.49 | SpeedEvil | It's not been confirmed if GTA01 will remain available after GTA02 hits. |
| 10:28.54 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I hope so. |
| 10:29.11 | gamin | I actually like the stereo speakers ;-) |
| 10:29.13 | cb22 | I think they will just sell the ones they have |
| 10:30.05 | SpeedEvil | I also like the -$150 |
| 10:30.23 | SpeedEvil | At $300, it makes sense as a dev platform for many things. |
| 10:30.27 | SpeedEvil | At $450 - not. |
| 10:30.57 | gamin | $450 is a difficult price tag when trying to reach mass markets |
| 10:31.02 | cjb_ie | does a third make that much different? |
| 10:31.19 | cb22 | cjb_ie, and then add on shipping... |
| 10:31.19 | cb22 | and taxes... |
| 10:31.29 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 10:31.29 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-64-14.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 10:31.46 | SpeedEvil | cjb_ie: if you don't need wifi, or hardware accel, or the accelerometers, yes. |
| 10:31.56 | gamin | I wonder how far the talks -if any- with the cell operators have come, i.e. getting it with a subscription |
| 10:32.10 | Tronic_ | High-end should be easier to reach with this kind of phone. |
| 10:32.18 | SpeedEvil | gamin: nowhere |
| 10:32.40 | SpeedEvil | gamin: you can't even begin those sorts of talks until you have a user-ready bit of hardware+software |
| 10:32.42 | *** join/#openmoko SrRaven (n=SrRaven@xion.phxhost.net) |
| 10:32.42 | Tronic_ | If you can offer features that other manufacturers simply don't have, some people will pay whatever the cost. |
| 10:32.57 | *** join/#openmoko mickey-tw (n=mickeyl@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 10:33.15 | gamin | SpeedEvil: so basically one has to buy it from FIC for $450 + VAT + ship... |
| 10:33.29 | Tronic_ | But trying to compete in the budget market with price, battery life, etc. probably does not work too well. |
| 10:33.49 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 10:33.54 | SpeedEvil | gamin: yes |
| 10:34.06 | cb22 | for me: $450, $?, $100 |
| 10:34.16 | cb22 | thats $550 with just shipping :/ |
| 10:34.21 | cb22 | i'm still getting one though |
| 10:34.21 | gamin | price of a laptop... |
| 10:34.26 | SpeedEvil | gamin: one of the problems is that many operators require lock-ins of various forms. |
| 10:34.36 | SpeedEvil | gamin: in order to sell the phones subsidised. |
| 10:34.37 | Tronic_ | Features of a laptop, too, I suppose. |
| 10:34.49 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, not in all countries |
| 10:34.56 | cb22 | infact, in some countries it is against the law |
| 10:35.11 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: in order to get subsidised phones. |
| 10:35.14 | SpeedEvil | cb22: |
| 10:36.06 | SpeedEvil | cb22: I'd personally be quite happy with a GTA02 at $200, locked in to one operator (as long as they had reasonable data prices) |
| 10:36.34 | gamin | SpeedEvil: as long as they have reasonable data roaming prices... |
| 10:36.46 | SpeedEvil | I don't care about that. |
| 10:36.58 | gamin | Many europeans do... |
| 10:37.02 | SpeedEvil | But I can see it's a problem for some people. |
| 10:37.30 | mickey-tw | hii |
| 10:37.41 | SpeedEvil | Hi! |
| 10:37.47 | cb22 | hello |
| 10:37.58 | gamin | I wonder if the locking to an operator is done in the firmware of the TI modem? |
| 10:38.06 | SpeedEvil | gamin: yes |
| 10:38.19 | gamin | SpeedEvil: what a pity :) |
| 10:38.38 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, couldn't it be done at a higher level too? even though this would be easily bypassed |
| 10:38.57 | gamin | cb22: people would just reflash |
| 10:38.59 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: sure. It's trivial to lock it down so you'd need a debug board to unlock. |
| 10:39.08 | SpeedEvil | cb22: for trivial = SMOP |
| 10:40.05 | SpeedEvil | Personally I want the freedom to lock my hardware down so hard that it cannot be revived by the debug board without my password. |
| 10:40.19 | SpeedEvil | But I've said this before. |
| 10:40.40 | XorA | SpeedEvil: LVM and dmcrypt |
| 10:40.45 | gamin | SpeedEvil: you need a soldering iron then, I suppose ;-p |
| 10:40.57 | SpeedEvil | XorA: bastard that steals my phone doesn't get to use it morelike. |
| 10:41.59 | gamin | It would be interesting to know what the manufacturing costs are - i.e. how far FIC can come down on the price while still making money. |
| 10:42.11 | torpor | apropos performance and lagginess, anyone ported anything else for the framebuffer device except an X server? |
| 10:42.35 | torpor | like fb SDL apps (games/emu's) that are comfy with a fb device, and don't need X .. |
| 10:42.37 | gamin | In the end they will try to maximise their profit - if it doesn't sell @ $450 they'll come dowm with the price |
| 10:43.21 | torpor | .. coz on gp2x land, we don't have lagginess, generally. no X server. |
| 10:44.07 | torpor | also, it appears to me there is room for a -lot- of optimization .. so can we assume that the current openmoko scene is in debug land for now, and will switch to a more compact scenario as things stabilize .. |
| 10:45.15 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 10:45.48 | gamin | iSupply calculated the the iphone ~250$ manufacturing costs |
| 10:47.33 | torpor | its more like 180 - 200, when things are adjusted for apple's accounting over 3 to 4 years. they have to do the 3.0 iphone before it starts to really kick their profit .. |
| 10:48.18 | *** join/#openmoko mortenlysgaard (n=mortenly@ti500720a080-8584.bb.online.no) |
| 10:49.43 | torpor | no company starting out in hardware today should assume that a 1.0 release is going to be huge. you have to do hardware right at least 3 times to do it right at all. |
| 10:50.38 | torpor | a planned sequence of hardware releases, with software glue between, is a sound strategy. for the neo to hit it, we not only need to see a public gta02 release that makes sense, we have to see the moko platform move beyond that onto other devices, too, relatively shortly thereafter. |
| 10:50.46 | gamin | torpor: hmm, the iphone hasn't sold that badly? |
| 10:51.08 | flaushy | gamin: they calculate in millions |
| 10:51.33 | flaushy | gamin: if they dont see that they can hit with x million devices, nooone even thinks of producing a phone nowadays |
| 10:51.48 | flaushy | expenses for development are too great |
| 10:51.53 | torpor | gamin: its selling at far higher margins than other mfr's, certainly, but remember that apple has rather large-range experience, at this point .. |
| 10:52.15 | gamin | in asia there are plenty of phones which are only sold in the 100.000s - according to Sean. |
| 10:52.30 | torpor | flaushy: not strictly true. many hardware mfr's are content at lots of 10,000's, and can profit grandly from well-executed lower-sum releases. |
| 10:52.53 | torpor | in apples' case, and wouldn't we all like to 'be apple', the figures are in the millions because they've been doing it longer. |
| 10:52.55 | flaushy | cool, but question is always: how much marketing, dev and distribution sucks up |
| 10:53.08 | flaushy | in nokia, motorola, etc it is too |
| 10:53.28 | torpor | apple are actually a grandfather company of computing, not upstarts. they've been the punks since the 70's, remember. unlike some people, for whom madonna was not a ripoff. |
| 10:53.32 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=StealthC@user-544167cd.l6.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 10:53.48 | flaushy | yeah, they know their business |
| 10:54.01 | flaushy | even tho they fuck up in some other parts (here in germany at least) |
| 10:54.16 | flaushy | but that company depends on its reputation |
| 10:54.19 | torpor | they have momentum in their customer databases. they've got great customer databases. |
| 10:54.38 | flaushy | yeah :) |
| 10:54.39 | torpor | you can make money on lower-order hardware runs, if you really pour good software and service to the product into the price. |
| 10:55.02 | flaushy | true |
| 10:55.11 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@dslb-088-068-201-172.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:55.20 | torpor | if you wanna make throw-away computers, like motorola and nokia, which you expect your users to grow bored of rapidly, you're not allowed to sell things at higher prices. but the technology is the same. |
| 10:55.30 | gamin | torpor: like the iphone clone? :p |
| 10:55.54 | flaushy | btw, does anyone know how high FIC calculates in terms of units? |
| 10:55.56 | torpor | you do realize that iphone is derided in asian markets, because asia has had iphones for years. |
| 10:56.22 | torpor | really, iphone is just like a corvet conversion kit for a cheap honda. |
| 10:56.33 | flaushy | hehe |
| 10:56.50 | gamin | flaushy: just a guess: I think the low six figures will start to make them happy |
| 10:56.56 | torpor | neo1973==volkswagen handy |
| 10:57.05 | flaushy | gamin: thx :) |
| 10:57.20 | flaushy | i wonder how much money they save by "using" the community |
| 10:57.37 | torpor | they save pretty much about 2 salaries worth. |
| 10:57.50 | torpor | and create, for themselves anyway, a few extra staff positions in the process. |
| 10:57.55 | torpor | so its pretty much moot, to be honest. |
| 10:58.11 | gamin | flaushy: they sold a couple thousand GTA01's that you still can't use for your daily life, so some ten thousand once it works should be easily doable |
| 10:58.19 | flaushy | yeah, but will be hopefully a good investment in the future :) |
| 10:58.26 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:58.34 | torpor | the only thing that matters is if the organization can pull off a hardware release rapidly enough to do it again, successfully, a couple more times thereafter. |
| 10:59.08 | torpor | you know what? i wish the stupid battery problems were fixed already. how come it isn't? |
| 10:59.41 | torpor | perhaps openmoko is too high profile, and its attracting too many people, and thus those at the core are getting deerstruck and forgetting to do the basics. in short: lets fork!! |
| 10:59.56 | torpor | i kid! |
| 11:00.05 | gamin | a propos battery: is there a place in /sys where I can echo something to clock down the cpu? |
| 11:01.23 | torpor | yup |
| 11:01.38 | gamin | torpor: which is? |
| 11:01.44 | torpor | i forget |
| 11:01.48 | ewon | heh |
| 11:01.52 | torpor | and my moko is not booting up coz the battery is flat |
| 11:02.23 | torpor | soon as its up i'll tell you, or you can check yourself .. |
| 11:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 11:04.25 | gamin | find /sys -name '*clock*' doesn't result in anything useful, neither does a search for cpu |
| 11:07.30 | SpeedEvil | gamin: no |
| 11:07.41 | SpeedEvil | gamin: you can slow it down at boot |
| 11:07.48 | SpeedEvil | see [[Bootloader]] |
| 11:07.50 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 11:09.09 | gamin | another question: is the click sound handled by the window manager? I couldn't find anything specific in /etc/matchbox |
| 11:09.42 | Vegar | I think neod takes care of that? |
| 11:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77_ (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 11:11.27 | Vegar | s/\?// |
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| 11:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF8F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:15.11 | gamin | Vegar: thanks |
| 11:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko joao_ (n=joao@35-165.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
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| 11:36.29 | CIA-13 | openmoko: 03andrew * r3293 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/neo1973.xml: More TI Calypso AT commands. |
| 11:43.02 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@host161-206-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:43.09 | *** join/#openmoko torpor (n=torpor@zone79a.de) |
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| 11:46.09 | torpor | we need D on openmoko: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/index_e.html |
| 11:47.23 | *** join/#openmoko _ts (n=pinhead@stdin.stderror.at) |
| 11:48.52 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:53.13 | faern | something is strange with my qemu flashing. or rather the build before is strange.. The flash searches for build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01 but I only have neo1973 in that dir. so I link it so it goes into the neo dir. but there it searches for an uImage en |
| 11:53.36 | faern | ..ending in fic-gta01. but I only have neo1973 there too |
| 11:54.41 | faern | so I link that file too. now the flashing continues. but it fires up qemu-system-arm, waits 300 sec and dies |
| 11:54.57 | faern | google don't seem to help :/ |
| 11:55.33 | faern | torpor, D as in D programming language? that would be nice :D |
| 12:10.20 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FFA29.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:10.32 | *** part/#openmoko mattzerah (n=matt@121.50.220.122) |
| 12:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@mobile-166-214-053-090.mycingular.net) |
| 12:12.15 | abraxa_ | stefan_schmidt: ping |
| 12:14.27 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 12:35.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 960 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com |
| 12:35.02 | cdbot2 | * * list of packages lack kinematic scrolling |
| 12:35.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=960 |
| 12:36.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 961 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com |
| 12:36.01 | cdbot2 | * * Scrolling of packages list produce unreadable content |
| 12:36.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=961 |
| 12:40.46 | rugek | d |
| 12:41.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 962 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com |
| 12:41.02 | cdbot2 | * * Neod cannot close application when menu is open |
| 12:41.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=962 |
| 12:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@cpc3-oxfd10-0-0-cust37.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:01.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 963 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com |
| 13:01.02 | cdbot2 | * * Mediaplayer SHOULD depend on gst-plugin-pulse |
| 13:01.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=963 |
| 13:02.10 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-189-173.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 13:02.17 | abraxa_ | hrw|gone: mickey wanted gst-pulse to be a dependency for openmoko-soundsystem and thus it wouldn't be needed for the media player - so XorA went with that instead |
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| 13:08.27 | *** join/#openmoko da-x (i=karrde@bzq-79-182-9-182.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 13:09.11 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkid` (n=sudharsh@59.92.74.3) |
| 13:10.23 | da-x | say, will this be able to charge neo1973: http://store.sundancesolar.com/sosochforipc.html |
| 13:14.06 | mjr | most likely only slow charge, unless you force fast, which AFAIK at this point you can only do at grub |
| 13:14.11 | mjr | not grub |
| 13:14.22 | mjr | uboot |
| 13:15.50 | cb22 | beh |
| 13:15.58 | cb22 | see what apple are doing with the iphone now? |
| 13:16.05 | cb22 | no cash, and a limit of 2/person |
| 13:18.15 | da-x | mjr: okay, but slow charge is planned to be supported at normal operation, right? I can even hack it myself once I get the dev kit.. |
| 13:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-161-117.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 13:20.44 | mjr | da-x, slow charge works all the time. It is, however, slower than the phone is likely to draw power even after some power management tweaks... |
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| 13:21.53 | *** join/#openmoko Penguin (n=Pen9u1n@123.103.29.251) |
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| 13:22.57 | da-x | mjr: okay, so you are saying it will charge a bit faster at uboot since it would be very idle at that stage consuming a minimum of power while charging.. okay. Though I don't really mind about the speed it charges as long as it does, I'm not talking very much. |
| 13:23.17 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178030623.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 13:24.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 964 has been created by hrw(AT)openedhand.com |
| 13:24.02 | cdbot2 | * * Neod menus are wrongly placed after screen rotate |
| 13:24.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=964 |
| 13:24.12 | Penguin | Hi room. |
| 13:27.22 | mjr | da-x, no, that is not at all what I'm saying |
| 13:28.20 | *** join/#openmoko chacha_chaudhry (i=rakesh@gnu-india/supporter/rakeshpandit) |
| 13:29.02 | mjr | it'd generally charge at a very low rate, unless forced to charge at a high rate, which you can do at uboot, but not when you've booted a kernel. The OM guys have reservations about forcing it in OM, though I suspect someone will eventually patch the option in. Anyway, a software issue, AFAIK. |
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| 13:30.09 | da-x | mjr: how much it time it would take for a full charge at this very low rate? |
| 13:30.45 | mjr | long |
| 13:31.11 | mjr | if it's on, it won't charge at all, merely deplete at a slower rate |
| 13:32.20 | da-x | oh, so it's not possible to wait for calls and charge at the same time |
| 13:32.41 | da-x | if by "on" you mean, just waiting for calls |
| 13:32.55 | mjr | indeed |
| 13:33.42 | da-x | hmm.. then I'd still have to use my nokia while development proceeds. |
| 13:33.43 | mjr | if you need that, see how uboot forces fast-charging and patch your kernel to allow the same |
| 13:34.27 | mjr | well it sucks as a phone anyway |
| 13:34.31 | da-x | mjr: being a kernel hacker I'll definitely look into that. |
| 13:35.18 | mjr | your only way to charge the device would be that solar charger? |
| 13:35.21 | abraxa_ | da-x: When the phone is idle and waiting for calls the CPU will be suspended, waiting for a wakeup from the GSM modem - so in that state it would indeed charge, albeit slowly |
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| 13:35.53 | mjr | you do know it does fast-charge when the usb is initialized by a proper usb host, right |
| 13:36.20 | abraxa_ | Yeah, but he was talking about slow charging |
| 13:36.57 | mjr | yeah, I'm just wondering if he didn't switch into a more generic context unwarrantedly. Seemed like it. |
| 13:37.03 | mjr | and he had misunderstood things before |
| 13:37.28 | da-x | sorry I'm new to this openmoko things. |
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| 13:42.33 | ianj | grr what kind of powersave setting do i need so it will build all night |
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| 13:48.59 | Penguin | This url is unaccessable: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ |
| 13:49.31 | Penguin | Is there any other daily build host? |
| 13:50.17 | abraxa_ | Penguin: http://buildhost.automated.it (it's ScaredyCat's) |
| 13:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko Penguin (n=Pen9u1n@123.103.29.251) |
| 13:53.23 | Penguin | My irc client was crashed :( |
| 13:53.53 | abraxa_ | Penguin: http://buildhost.automated.it (it's ScaredyCat's) |
| 13:54.53 | Penguin | I found that if the neo is suspended, the system clock is never come with real time change. |
| 13:55.04 | Penguin | abraxa_: thx. |
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| 14:07.42 | Penguin | Is it safe to flash new kernel into my neo without debug board? |
| 14:07.46 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:08.16 | abraxa_ | Yeah it is |
| 14:08.46 | Sup3rkiddo | any libgsmd experts here? |
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| 14:13.48 | *** part/#openmoko Elessar_81 (n=Andreas@p5B05A5F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:14.56 | Penguin | with last 2.6.22 kernel from ScaredyCat's buildhost:) |
| 14:14.59 | Penguin | cool, I heard some sound with the new kernel:) |
| 14:15.30 | Vegar | are there any plans on moving to 2.6.23 any time soon? |
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| 14:24.29 | torpor | ScaredyCat: you there? |
| 14:24.36 | torpor | whats the pkg name for settings gui again? |
| 14:25.05 | xzcvczx | settingsgui i think |
| 14:26.20 | torpor | ghiottone told me but i forget it and i just overwrite my moko with the latest image .. |
| 14:26.24 | torpor | i guess its in his repo .. |
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| 14:32.19 | ianj | if i changed my MACHINE to x86 in local.conf, can i still emulate with QEMU? |
| 14:32.32 | ianj | right now i want to emulate with Xephyr |
| 14:32.54 | ianj | but what if i want to emulate on qemu, build it all over again? |
| 14:33.09 | abraxa_ | ianj: If you set machine to x86 you can just chroot into it |
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| 14:33.37 | ianj | right, thats why im doing this |
| 14:33.43 | ianj | but isn't qemu a more accurate emulation? |
| 14:33.57 | ianj | so if im testing my app |
| 14:34.17 | SpeedEvil | why do you want accurate emyulation?> |
| 14:34.19 | abraxa_ | Yeah, sure, though it prolly will still be slow |
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| 14:37.23 | xzcvczx | why is qemu so slow? even on something like a core duo machine |
| 14:38.00 | ianj | abraxa_: thanks |
| 14:38.18 | ianj | yeah i don't get it either, thats why i'm doing xephyr |
| 14:38.40 | ianj | SpeedEvil: i don't know, i guess i should just be testing on the Neo :) |
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| 14:38.56 | ianj | but i'm waiting for the gta02 |
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| 14:45.56 | abraxa_ | Does anyone know where I can configure that terminals 2 and 4 don't show the syslog output as they currently do? |
| 14:53.32 | Penguin | how to enable sound beep when tap on screen? |
| 14:54.40 | abraxa_ | It should work out-of-the-box - if not, try an "alsactl -f /etc/stereoout.state restore" |
| 14:59.48 | ianj | whats best way to do 2d graphics on openmoko? |
| 14:59.54 | ianj | can i use cairo? |
| 15:01.23 | abraxa_ | Yes, you can use Cairo |
| 15:01.33 | abraxa_ | Try to optimize for performance, however |
| 15:03.31 | ianj | is it the best choice? |
| 15:04.46 | abraxa_ | Aside from using raw X calls and GTK+, yes |
| 15:05.33 | abraxa_ | On GTA02+ you will probably also be able to use OpenGL ES, though Cairo encapsulates that as far as I know |
| 15:06.26 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 15:07.31 | mjr | yeah cairo can use at least normal opengl as backend, es shouldn't be too hard an adaptation |
| 15:07.39 | mjr | requires a driver, 'course |
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| 15:08.51 | cworth | ianj: I recommend cairo, (though that shouldn't be too surprising coming from me). If you do run into performance problems of any kind, we'll definitely do all we can to fix them. |
| 15:08.54 | xzcvczx | anyone know what the easiest and quickest way to just get a cross compile toolkit for om would be? |
| 15:09.33 | ianj | cworth, thanks! |
| 15:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.169.149) |
| 15:13.29 | abraxa_ | xzcvczx: Try http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/sdk/ |
| 15:13.42 | *** join/#openmoko mickey-tw (n=mickeyl@122-124-65-120.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:13.50 | abraxa_ | Hiho mickey |
| 15:14.17 | mickey-tw | heya |
| 15:14.49 | abraxa_ | mickey-tw: Is Stefan in .tw also or is he in .de? |
| 15:15.01 | mickey-tw | stefan is sitting next to me |
| 15:15.01 | mickey-tw | yo |
| 15:15.04 | abraxa_ | I'd like to talk to him regarding qvga |
| 15:15.06 | mickey-tw | he will login soon |
| 15:15.06 | abraxa_ | ohh nice |
| 15:15.11 | mickey-tw | in just 2 minutes |
| 15:15.13 | mickey-tw | i guess |
| 15:15.16 | abraxa_ | 'kay, thanks :) |
| 15:15.17 | xzcvczx | abraxa_: thanks i thought i had seen something like that somewhere, downloading it now |
| 15:15.59 | abraxa_ | mickey-tw: Is http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/sdk/ usable or just a work-in-progress? (I assume it's your doing) |
| 15:16.21 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.1.fullrate.dk) |
| 15:18.07 | mickey-tw | should be usable, but needs much more testing. i got side tracked by this .tw trip, but will resume soonish |
| 15:18.21 | xzcvczx | mickey-tw: cool thanks |
| 15:18.23 | abraxa_ | Coolies :) |
| 15:19.11 | ianj | i love how there is a 711 on every block in tw |
| 15:19.21 | mickey-tw | jfyi: for the remainder of this year, i will concentrate on tools |
| 15:20.19 | mickey-tw | ianj: ya, that rocks (somehow) |
| 15:20.29 | abraxa_ | Awesome, though that won't stop me from pestering you with all kinds of other issues ;D |
| 15:20.59 | mickey-tw | xzcvczx: do that! i work for insanely few bucks |
| 15:21.38 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 15:22.42 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: lol, on the latest images mine ie |
| 15:22.45 | xzcvczx | is |
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| 15:28.17 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: Just 5 more minutes |
| 15:28.31 | abraxa_ | stefan_schmidt: Take your time, you're not at work ;) |
| 15:29.00 | mickey-tw | right |
| 15:29.11 | mickey-tw | e z x hacking tonite |
| 15:29.51 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.169.149) |
| 15:35.01 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: are you really? |
| 15:35.35 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: is that due to the fact that something/s doesnt work in .2? |
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| 15:41.42 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: done. What's up? |
| 15:42.15 | abraxa_ | stefan_schmidt: Thanks for taking the time. I tried QVGA mode yesterday and today, with limited success |
| 15:42.49 | abraxa_ | For example, I thought Harald merged the patch into the stock kernel, though apparently that isn't so |
| 15:43.08 | abraxa_ | Do you know the status of that by chance? |
| 15:43.38 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: oh, they are merged already, I guess the svn rev in OE was just not bumped |
| 15:44.27 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: For the start I could upload you a uImage |
| 15:44.45 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: That would take the hassle of compiling a special patchset manually from you |
| 15:44.51 | abraxa_ | Hmm, that might be it - I didn't check that |
| 15:44.59 | abraxa_ | Thanks, too late ;) |
| 15:46.03 | abraxa_ | When I set QVGA mode with the patched kernel (which worked then), kernel messages kept filling up the terminal |
| 15:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko Jiten (n=blight@MDCCCXC.gprs.saunalahti.fi) |
| 15:46.35 | abraxa_ | I turned them off using "echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/printk", though I wonder if there's a better way |
| 15:47.02 | abraxa_ | The cursor is also visible as well, is there anything that can be done about that also? |
| 15:47.02 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: hmm, what kind of kernel msgs? |
| 15:47.33 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: If you chvt there should not be any cursor. |
| 15:47.42 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: It's just the fb console |
| 15:47.48 | abraxa_ | "jbt7k74_enter_state: entering(old_state=normal_to_sleep): entering" and that sort |
| 15:48.02 | abraxa_ | Also some S3C messages for interrupt events |
| 15:48.40 | abraxa_ | Hmm, I used "chvt 4" and the cursor is always there, blinking in the bottom left corner |
| 15:48.41 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: Ah, nothing flooding, just normal kernel msgs |
| 15:49.20 | abraxa_ | Well yes, though these kernel messages get redrawn over mplayer's video output so that's a problem ;x |
| 15:49.58 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: hmm, but when you start playing the video there should be no cursor. |
| 15:50.24 | abraxa_ | Unfortunately, there is |
| 15:50.51 | mickey-tw | just enter the graphics mode on the fb |
| 15:50.54 | mickey-tw | then the cursor vanishes |
| 15:51.31 | abraxa_ | chvt 4 |
| 15:51.31 | abraxa_ | echo qvga-normal > /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state |
| 15:51.31 | abraxa_ | fbset qvga |
| 15:51.31 | abraxa_ | echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/printk |
| 15:51.40 | abraxa_ | That's what I'm doing |
| 15:52.01 | mickey-tw | that's not enough |
| 15:52.05 | abraxa_ | Oh? |
| 15:52.13 | mickey-tw | you need to issue an ioctl to turn the fb into gfx mode |
| 15:52.23 | mickey-tw | (if you don`t like a blinky cursor) |
| 15:52.46 | abraxa_ | Any idea which ioctl that would be? |
| 15:53.01 | mickey-tw | hmm, i can dig it up if i can find my old qt patches again... |
| 15:53.07 | mickey-tw | let me check |
| 15:53.11 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.214.89) |
| 15:53.12 | abraxa_ | That's okay, I'll look myself then :) |
| 15:53.24 | stefan_schmidt | mickey-tw: Ah, that one you was talking about in your mail |
| 15:53.34 | mickey-tw | ya |
| 15:54.10 | xzcvczx | and here we see the exceptional grammar skills of a professional :P |
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| 15:56.06 | abraxa_ | stefan_schmidt / mickey-tw: Thanks for the pointers you two, I'll keep working on it :) |
| 15:56.17 | mickey-tw | here we are |
| 15:56.24 | mickey-tw | man, that's long ago |
| 15:56.27 | mickey-tw | http://handhelds.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/opie/qt/qt-2.3.10.patch/vt-switch.patch?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain |
| 15:56.30 | stefan_schmidt | abraxa_: thanks |
| 15:56.33 | abraxa_ | Ohh, thanks :) |
| 15:56.44 | mickey-tw | ioctl( console_fd, KDSETMODE, KD_GRAPHICS ) == -1 ) is it |
| 15:57.10 | abraxa_ | Ah, so it's another ingredient for Stefan's patch then, I assume |
| 15:57.18 | mickey-tw | no |
| 15:57.22 | mickey-tw | userland should do that |
| 15:57.26 | abraxa_ | Okay |
| 15:57.30 | mickey-tw | so: you ;) |
| 15:57.44 | mickey-tw | i would also replace the call to chvt with the appropriate ioctl |
| 15:57.44 | abraxa_ | Fine by me :) |
| 15:58.03 | abraxa_ | Of course, I'm just trying things out manually first before coding it |
| 15:58.12 | mickey-tw | sure |
| 15:58.55 | mickey-tw | ah |
| 15:59.00 | mickey-tw | Sean comes through the door |
| 15:59.06 | mickey-tw | l8er |
| 15:59.09 | abraxa_ | I take it the printk problem will then also solve itself as kernel messages aren't shown on gfx consoles, right? |
| 15:59.16 | abraxa_ | Okay, have... fun? :) |
| 15:59.19 | mickey-tw | well |
| 15:59.23 | mickey-tw | the kernel CMDLINE is wrong |
| 15:59.29 | mickey-tw | it should read console=tty1 |
| 15:59.30 | mickey-tw | not tty0 |
| 15:59.40 | mickey-tw | we don't want kernel messages on the _current_ console, just on tty1 |
| 15:59.46 | mickey-tw | but yes, graphics mode should fix that as well |
| 15:59.46 | abraxa_ | Yeah |
| 15:59.51 | abraxa_ | Okay, not in my court then |
| 15:59.56 | mickey-tw | yep |
| 16:00.00 | abraxa_ | :) |
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| 16:04.39 | xzcvczx | mickey-tw: does the sdk have openmoko-libs in it? |
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| 16:40.44 | mwester | 'mornin' |
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| 16:54.35 | PBeck | hi |
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| 17:20.52 | MBitter | Hi, dose anyone here know a solution or workaround for Bug 937 |
| 17:21.29 | gamin | bug #937 |
| 17:22.03 | gamin | apt: bug #937 |
| 17:22.15 | gamin | apt? |
| 17:22.47 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 17:23.02 | CoreDump | ~ombug 937 |
| 17:23.16 | CoreDump | !ombug 937 |
| 17:23.17 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 937, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 17:23.19 | cdbot2 | * * nikosverschore(AT)gmail.com: Qemu doens't want to flash images |
| 17:23.20 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=937 |
| 17:23.30 | MBitter | exactly this bug |
| 17:23.58 | CoreDump | never used qemu, sorry |
| 17:24.13 | *** join/#openmoko krLun (i=Blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 17:29.15 | cb22 | the new today screen looks pretty bling :) |
| 17:32.12 | mwester-laptop | pretty "bling"?? |
| 17:34.24 | cb22 | quoting |
| 17:34.25 | xzcvczx | :( seems like the touchscreen on my phone has just dies |
| 17:34.27 | xzcvczx | died |
| 17:34.41 | cb22 | http://planet.openmoko.org |
| 17:35.11 | cb22 | http://chrislord.net/ |
| 17:36.27 | mwester-laptop | hmmmm... I see. Let's dress up a bug-ridden, non-working platform, and hope nobody notices that it doesn't make phone calls, the GPS doesn't work, and there's no power management. :( |
| 17:37.04 | cb22 | mwester-laptop, so, if it didnt do all of those, but had a cool 3d cube, i wouldnt care :) |
| 17:37.29 | mwester-laptop | (Some of the fixes aren't even that hard -- the patches are sitting in the openmoko bug tracker, where they are growing old waiting for someone to apply them. |
| 17:37.31 | mwester-laptop | ) |
| 17:37.59 | xzcvczx | whats the touchscreen device |
| 17:38.34 | mwester-laptop | I think it's one of the /dev/input/* items, or something like that... |
| 17:39.03 | cb22 | /dev/ts0? |
| 17:39.28 | cb22 | or /dev/input/ts |
| 17:39.36 | xzcvczx | yeah just found it touchscreen0 |
| 17:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
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| 17:47.57 | gamin | getting wikipedia on the SD card would be nice |
| 17:48.49 | gamin | without all the cruft that should be possible on a 2G card |
| 17:49.13 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f049014163.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:49.13 | gamin | as static pages only, that is |
| 17:50.04 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 17:51.38 | cb22 | gamin, mokopedia |
| 17:52.30 | gamin | cb22: nice idea for a name. plus mokogutenberg.... |
| 17:52.40 | cb22 | gamin, heh, wasnt mine |
| 17:52.43 | cb22 | it exists already |
| 17:52.47 | cb22 | wiki it |
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| 18:02.42 | gamin | cb22: looked into it, that's very nice! |
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| 19:06.39 | ianj | can anyone give me a suggestion on why my build might be failing? |
| 19:06.39 | ianj | http://pastebin.com/m395b4396 |
| 19:10.37 | mickey-tw | ianj: looks like uboot doesn't compile for i486 |
| 19:10.56 | mickey-tw | it probably doesn't run on it anyways... |
| 19:11.01 | mickey-tw | uboot is an arm bootloader |
| 19:11.02 | abraxa__ | Dang mickey-tw, you're still up? Wow... :O |
| 19:11.08 | mickey-tw | mmh |
| 19:11.19 | ianj | so, what does that mean for my xephyr emulation hopes and dreams? |
| 19:11.19 | mickey-tw | fsck it, we just had another endless discussion with marketing |
| 19:11.35 | mickey-tw | ianj: just don't build uboot. take it out of the build dependencies |
| 19:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:12.56 | ianj | mickey-tw: thanks, i'll try that |
| 19:14.47 | xzcvczx | mickey-tw: lol anything that the public can know/would want to know come up? |
| 19:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-62-216-202-191.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:14.58 | mickey-tw | unfortunately not |
| 19:15.28 | xzcvczx | :S |
| 19:15.33 | mickey-tw | michael shiloh will tell everything he can |
| 19:15.46 | mickey-tw | in the future, i can only be the voice of engineering |
| 19:15.51 | mickey-tw | s/the/a/ |
| 19:16.05 | mickey-tw | which is ok, since this is actually what i'm supposed to do |
| 19:16.29 | xzcvczx | lol @ apt fscking up |
| 19:16.31 | SpeedEvil | mickey-tw: give us 110% on the reactor! |
| 19:16.45 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@236.84-48-53.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:17.12 | mickey-tw | heh |
| 19:17.13 | mickey-tw | ~lart apt |
| 19:17.13 | apt | tries to shut mickey-tw up |
| 19:18.53 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-62-216-202-191.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:23.02 | unknown_lamer | marketing: where the people who can't do anything go to leech off of the people who can (tm) |
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| 19:27.17 | gabaug | anybody else getting lots of ipkg errors wrt gtk+-fastscaling? |
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| 19:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:30.22 | gabaug | "Package gtk+-fastscaling wants to install file X \n\t But that file is already provided by package" |
| 19:30.29 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44a665.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:30.29 | mickey-tw | ya |
| 19:30.34 | mickey-tw | init 3 |
| 19:30.38 | mickey-tw | ipkg remove gtk+ --force-depends |
| 19:30.42 | mickey-tw | ipkg install gtk+-fastscaling |
| 19:30.43 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:30.45 | mickey-tw | init 5 |
| 19:30.50 | mickey-tw | should help |
| 19:30.51 | gabaug | thanks |
| 19:30.56 | mickey-tw | np |
| 19:32.16 | gabaug | how much free space do you have on your / ? |
| 19:32.36 | gabaug | I'm down to ~ 2M |
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| 19:48.30 | xzcvczx | gah when i try to stty after starting cu to connect to /dev/ttySAC0 my phones just crashing :( |
| 19:49.59 | mwester-laptop | Sounds like bug 788. |
| 19:50.30 | mwester-laptop | !oebug 788 |
| 19:50.31 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 788, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: 2006-03-27 08:40 |
| 19:50.32 | cdbot2 | * * chris(AT)openedhand.com: BB file for Web |
| 19:50.33 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 19:50.40 | mwester-laptop | Nope, not that one |
| 19:50.47 | mwester-laptop | !oebug 778 |
| 19:50.49 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 778, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: 2006-03-24 11:00 |
| 19:50.50 | cdbot2 | * * <koen>: diet-x11 lies about X_HAVE_UTF8_STRING |
| 19:50.51 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778 |
| 19:51.08 | xzcvczx | wouldnt it more likely be an openmoko bug |
| 19:51.44 | mwester-laptop | !ombug 788 |
| 19:51.45 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 788, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 19:51.46 | cdbot2 | * * mwester(AT)dls.net: Starting or stopping gsmd completely locks up the Neo |
| 19:51.47 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 19:51.51 | mwester-laptop | Ah, yep. |
| 19:54.26 | gabaug | is it possible to put a sim card in and use the dialer ootb yet? |
| 19:54.35 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
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| 19:56.06 | mwester-laptop | xzcvczx: If you'd rather not patch your own kernel, you can download the one at http://moko.mwester.net/ that's been patched to avoid that crash. |
| 19:58.43 | *** join/#openmoko emre_ (n=emre@85.98.182.21) |
| 20:00.17 | *** join/#openmoko kW__ (n=kwkw@203.35.205.2) |
| 20:00.52 | emre_ | folks, is there a file in the /dev directory or somewhere else which tells me the battery percentage? |
| 20:02.15 | SpeedEvil | apm |
| 20:02.17 | SpeedEvil | however |
| 20:02.21 | SpeedEvil | it's inaccurate |
| 20:02.26 | emre_ | how? |
| 20:02.38 | SpeedEvil | 50%=5%, 90%=99% |
| 20:02.57 | SpeedEvil | I've got a patch, but I'm having problems accessing it for annoying reasons. |
| 20:02.58 | mmazur | why? :) |
| 20:03.07 | emre_ | is there a non-linear but precise function for it? |
| 20:03.10 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 20:03.20 | SpeedEvil | I've got an implementation of that function as a patch. |
| 20:03.23 | emre_ | hmm, cool. where is it written? |
| 20:03.37 | *** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 20:03.39 | SpeedEvil | But the patch is currently on an offline disk while I do the 'juggle data round tiny free space' dance |
| 20:03.52 | xzcvczx | mwester-laptop: thanks but in the end just used atcmd throught libtool-gsmd |
| 20:04.07 | SpeedEvil | I hope to build, test, debug, and upload it soon. |
| 20:05.01 | emre_ | ok, so. I just wanted to test the battery consumption/life in different cases.. Like, when it is in idle mode, playing music, on the (non-usb router) charger, etc. |
| 20:05.04 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.1.fullrate.dk) |
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| 20:06.57 | emre_ | GGGG |
| 20:07.21 | mwester-laptop | Cap-lock problem? |
| 20:07.27 | mwester-laptop | :p |
| 20:07.35 | gabaug | anybody have luck making calls ootb? |
| 20:07.45 | gabaug | or is it not possible? |
| 20:07.53 | emre_ | :) shift problem :) |
| 20:08.43 | mwester-laptop | gabaug: "ootb" = out of the box? If so, not really. |
| 20:08.49 | *** part/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 20:08.49 | emre_ | SpeedEvil: by the way I could only found /dev/apm_bios |
| 20:08.50 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-161-117.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 20:08.59 | emre_ | where's that apm file? |
| 20:09.01 | gabaug | mwester, yeah, out of the box |
| 20:09.27 | gabaug | mwester: really I just mean w/ latest pkgs and nothing else |
| 20:09.51 | xzcvczx | yeah i can make calls without a problem |
| 20:10.05 | gabaug | xzcvczx: no config changes or anything by hand? |
| 20:10.10 | xzcvczx | nope |
| 20:10.19 | xzcvczx | except putting the firmware on the device |
| 20:10.26 | gabaug | what do you mean? |
| 20:10.52 | xzcvczx | think of a computer you buy without an operating system.... same sorta thing |
| 20:11.01 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 20:11.07 | gabaug | so the Neo's don't ship w/ some necessary firmware? |
| 20:11.20 | xzcvczx | well the 01's didnt |
| 20:11.34 | gabaug | nice |
| 20:11.43 | gabaug | xzcvczx: do you have a link to the firmware/instructions? |
| 20:11.54 | mwester-laptop | it is, actually. Preinstalled operatings suck, on any platform. |
| 20:12.01 | xzcvczx | 1 read throught the wiki front page will set you ring |
| 20:12.02 | xzcvczx | right |
| 20:13.22 | mwester-laptop | It's also worth mentioning that there are multiple firmware images to choose from. Openmoko is one, there is also the Qtopia image. |
| 20:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko Jiten (n=blight@KDCXXXV.gprs.saunalahti.fi) |
| 20:13.52 | gabaug | xzcvczx: is that what you mean by firmware, openmoko? |
| 20:14.09 | xzcvczx | yes |
| 20:14.17 | gabaug | xzcvczx: you got a Neo w/o any OS on it? |
| 20:14.36 | xzcvczx | i think everyone whos got one did |
| 20:14.38 | dcordes | :O |
| 20:14.39 | gabaug | my p0 and p1 both came w/ openmoko installed.. |
| 20:15.04 | SpeedEvil | gabaug: odd |
| 20:15.16 | xzcvczx | lol SpeedEvil i was about to say huh.... |
| 20:15.28 | xzcvczx | may have just been batch 1 of p1 that didnt |
| 20:15.28 | SpeedEvil | gabaug: all other people that have reported have said that P1 came with a kernel but no rootfs |
| 20:15.54 | gabaug | wait, maybe not p1....the second phone they gave p0 people |
| 20:15.57 | gabaug | == p1? |
| 20:15.58 | SpeedEvil | Even recent ones - IIRC a guy (or a girl (could be an ewok even)) last couple of weeks. |
| 20:16.16 | mwester-laptop | The p0 units came pre-installed; I hope you saved that software image somewhere (it has a driver on it that you can't get anywhere else). The official p1 units did not have a rootfs. |
| 20:16.40 | gabaug | mwester: why on earth are they not shipping the driver? |
| 20:17.02 | CoreDump | licensing reasons AFAIK |
| 20:17.03 | xzcvczx | gabaug: damn EULA has to be written for it |
| 20:17.25 | gabaug | so, sending it to 30-50 people was fine..? |
| 20:17.35 | xzcvczx | lol that was an acciendet |
| 20:17.41 | mwester-laptop | Long story. unfortunate corporate merger of a supplier, lawyers, then the choice to switch OABI/EABI, then more *&@^$ lawyers, and so it goes. |
| 20:17.59 | gabaug | are there longs threads on the ml's about this? |
| 20:18.05 | xzcvczx | everywhere |
| 20:18.05 | mwester-laptop | Yep. |
| 20:18.07 | gabaug | heh |
| 20:18.19 | gabaug | jees, guess I haven't been following them closely enough (eg at all) |
| 20:18.21 | xzcvczx | and at the moment the ball is in om's court |
| 20:18.31 | gabaug | om == openomoko? |
| 20:18.36 | xzcvczx | yup |
| 20:18.46 | *** join/#openmoko ianj_ (n=ianj@fl-65-40-12-114.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 20:18.53 | mwester-laptop | Yep. How much money can they give to the money-sucking lawyer to get him to spend time to write the EULA? |
| 20:19.18 | gabaug | jees, wtf, that is so messed up, this project has some serious issues |
| 20:19.45 | xzcvczx | mwester-laptop: give him a bag of coal for xmas at this rate |
| 20:19.45 | gabaug | (like not being able to make calls on a cell phone....7 months after it's semi-public) |
| 20:19.58 | xzcvczx | i can make calls on it |
| 20:20.00 | mwester-laptop | gabaug, no - this happens to many many companies too -- it's just all concealed when companies have these problems. |
| 20:20.06 | xzcvczx | not particularly well but i can |
| 20:20.20 | ianj_ | the joy of opensource :) |
| 20:20.24 | gabaug | is there a way to check if you have whatever driver this is? |
| 20:20.43 | mwester-laptop | I remember a project where a key component was changed at the last minute for no other reason than the *#$%& lawyers couldn't agree on something. |
| 20:20.52 | xzcvczx | ls /home/root/gps/gllin |
| 20:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 20:22.45 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@236.84-48-53.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:23.00 | gabaug | xzcvczx: that file has to do w/ makings calls? (appears to be GPS related..) |
| 20:23.29 | xzcvczx | it is gps |
| 20:23.31 | xzcvczx | not gsm |
| 20:23.48 | gabaug | I thought you said there was a driver needed to for gsm/to make calls? |
| 20:24.15 | xzcvczx | nope |
| 20:24.26 | *** join/#openmoko dhq (n=dhq@unaffiliated/dhq) |
| 20:24.50 | mwester-laptop | No, the driver is for GPS. The gsm modem is a serial device. We could use some documentation for that, but the basics are working. |
| 20:25.09 | xzcvczx | lol check out AT%EM mode |
| 20:25.16 | mickey-tw | ok, blog post almost done. will add some pictures to it and then post it tomorrow. |
| 20:25.20 | xzcvczx | can be rather fun to look at all the crap there |
| 20:25.23 | mickey-tw | 04:25 here, g'night guys |
| 20:25.28 | xzcvczx | lol night mickey-tw |
| 20:25.36 | ljp | i hate the word blog |
| 20:25.43 | xzcvczx | and i dunno how the person worked out so much about AT%EM |
| 20:25.43 | dhq | well if i want the neo version how muxh does it cost with shipment charges i live in india |
| 20:26.15 | xzcvczx | dhq: use ups to find out its a 2ounce box for the basic |
| 20:26.46 | dhq | xzcvczx, i dint understand |
| 20:27.12 | xzcvczx | google ups shipment and look there |
| 20:27.39 | dhq | xzcvczx, does it have wifi |
| 20:27.42 | ljp | AT%EM is int he calypso at command spec |
| 20:27.50 | xzcvczx | dhq: current one no |
| 20:28.01 | xzcvczx | ljp: ah ok |
| 20:28.11 | ljp | :) |
| 20:28.12 | dhq | xzcvczx, when will wifi be supported |
| 20:28.17 | xzcvczx | dhq: topic! |
| 20:28.26 | SpeedEvil | dhq: there is no hardware in the current device. |
| 20:28.49 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: lol then its not really a device is it |
| 20:29.04 | dhq | how is the cell |
| 20:29.07 | dhq | for use |
| 20:29.28 | SpeedEvil | koredn: no wifi |
| 20:29.50 | ljp | dhq: qtopia seems to work fine. OM is getting better |
| 20:30.05 | xzcvczx | ljp: where can you get the calypso command spec? |
| 20:30.09 | dhq | well i wanted wifi also :( |
| 20:30.24 | ljp | xzcvczx: for TI with a NDA |
| 20:30.26 | ljp | from |
| 20:30.48 | xzcvczx | ljp: lol rather funny it ending up on the wiki then :S |
| 20:31.19 | ljp | i doubt its fully documented onthe wiki |
| 20:31.33 | xzcvczx | its reasonably well documetned |
| 20:31.41 | ljp | url? |
| 20:31.56 | xzcvczx | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem |
| 20:33.16 | ljp | I dont see any documentation for em mode |
| 20:33.34 | roh | %EM? cannot find it anywhere besides the AT+CLAC output |
| 20:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko hozer (n=hozer@excalibur.hozed.org) |
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| 20:34.10 | xzcvczx | well its definately there |
| 20:34.14 | SpeedEvil | %em has lots of goodness. |
| 20:34.16 | hozer | are there bin-only drivers for the gta01 GPS yet? |
| 20:34.25 | xzcvczx | try F5 |
| 20:34.26 | SpeedEvil | For example, you can get the nearby cells and their signal strengths. |
| 20:34.35 | xzcvczx | hozer: no |
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| 20:34.53 | SpeedEvil | hozer: yes. To obtain them, you need to find the right lawyer, and apply a small hammer. |
| 20:34.54 | hozer | bleh.. gta02 has a different GPS now, right? |
| 20:34.58 | SpeedEvil | hozer: yes |
| 20:35.15 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: f a small hammer..... jackhammer more like it |
| 20:35.17 | roh | ah.. engineering mode.. now it got it |
| 20:35.25 | xzcvczx | roh: ;) |
| 20:35.48 | roh | but nope.. i cannot comment on that right away.. but yes, there is documentation about it from ti |
| 20:36.04 | mwester | small hammer? They enjoy that. It's hard to torment a lawyer as they are so closely related to the devil himself. |
| 20:36.25 | roh | well. i can comment, but not read or give the doc to you |
| 20:36.29 | ljp | xzcvczx: actually, I was surprised at how fast and easy TI came up with the at specs for Trolltech. didnt even have to beg. They even said they were suprised the neo used the calypso |
| 20:36.55 | guaqua | company vs the general public |
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| 20:37.45 | ljp | guaqua: depends on the company being asked. ATI and TI are usually the most secretive |
| 20:37.51 | roh | ljp well.. its not really a recent document |
| 20:38.15 | ljp | roh: perhaps thats why |
| 20:38.18 | cb22 | random thought of the day: the neo has half the ram of the ps3 |
| 20:38.21 | xzcvczx | it must be somewhere on google then |
| 20:38.32 | ljp | xzcvczx: nope |
| 20:38.44 | roh | eh s/document/product |
| 20:39.30 | ljp | still, through my 6 years in embedded linux, TI is usually secret |
| 20:41.26 | roh | jap |
| 20:43.32 | gabaug | is there a way to verify my SIM is inserted correctly/recognized, like query what provider it's from, #'s stored on it, etc? |
| 20:44.12 | xzcvczx | gabaug: the gsm modem page and manually using gsm will help with that |
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| 21:10.28 | gabaug | I'm getting +CME ERROR: 10 (SIM not found) -- anybody know if this can happen if the SIM is locked or for other reasons, not just if it's incorrectly inserted? |
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| 21:16.58 | lysanderslair | !ombug 666 |
| 21:16.59 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 666, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 21:17.00 | cdbot2 | * * steven.demetrius(AT)fiwwi.com: 3G SIM capability |
| 21:17.01 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666 |
| 21:17.13 | cb22 | evil bug |
| 21:18.23 | StealthCP | haha |
| 21:18.35 | StealthCP | 3G is indeed evil |
| 21:18.49 | Placid | heh |
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| 21:30.47 | dsilva | this is odd... do_unpack for linux-2.6.21 is failing now, saying it can't find defconfig |
| 21:32.16 | gabaug | lysanderslair: thanks |
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| 21:37.18 | lysanderslair | np |
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| 21:41.35 | cb22 | wow, judging by the battery life of my p990, a neo with no pm would beat it |
| 21:41.56 | cjb_ie | cb22: my p910i is fairly sucky as well |
| 21:42.16 | cb22 | no, but the p990 is a piece of shit... |
| 21:42.26 | cb22 | i used it for 3 hours |
| 21:42.26 | cb22 | and lost 60% battery life |
| 21:44.15 | cjb_ie | i just replaced the p910i with a treo 680, and i'm a little disappointed with its battery life too. |
| 21:44.40 | cb22 | the best battery life i've expirenced was on a winmobile phone |
| 21:44.53 | cjb_ie | that saddens me :( |
| 21:45.13 | cb22 | where each ep of southpark i watched only took away 3% |
| 21:45.23 | cb22 | thats like 3% for 23 minutes of video |
| 21:45.30 | cb22 | or about 11 hours total |
| 21:45.34 | cb22 | of video watching |
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| 21:51.52 | ishiboo | what fonts are build into xfbdev |
| 21:52.13 | ishiboo | I'm trying to create a test app which uses 9x15 on a normal x server, but xfbdev doesnot have it |
| 21:52.35 | PBeck | bye |
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| 22:12.22 | CoreDump | meh, ipkg upgrade b0rked my install :\ |
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