IRC log for #openmoko on 20071025

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01:03.42CIA-13openmoko: 03abraxa * r3263 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
01:03.42CIA-13openmoko: Fix GConf schemas file
01:03.42CIA-13openmoko: Add GConf support, part II
01:03.42CIA-13openmoko: Correct some indenting where tabs were wrongfully used
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01:21.59sagacisWow, new people
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02:03.29jaebirdsagacis: you new?
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02:22.11sagacisNope.  I knew.
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04:25.37demonAnyone know whats up with openmoko.com?   My connection keeps timing out.  Traceroute  failing somewhere in Germany.
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04:28.27mickey-twscheduled downtime
04:32.29mickey-twjust maintenance
04:32.36mickey-twat this point of time, i don´t expect updates
04:32.40CMAhh... Too bad :)
04:33.00CMJust some updated screenshots would be nice, since it's still only showing the old GUI
04:33.07mickey-twwell, there might be announcements later this year. about new directions and stuff
04:33.15CM*nod*
04:33.15mickey-twyes, i will pester some folks to update the site
04:34.13CMAt least it seems you survived the "new directions" meeting today so I guess it went ok ;)
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04:40.27mickey-twwell
04:40.32mickey-twyes i am still here ;)
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05:10.46JOSFHello!
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05:20.07CMJOSF: Good morning :)
05:28.17JOSFGood morning CM. I am surprised to find so many people here. I thought, OpenMoko is still for developers only, but this just gives me moment when I felt, that a Linux smartphone is extremley needed :)
05:30.19CMJOSF: I think there's been over 300 ppl here since August at least
05:30.26JOSFThat's nice.
05:30.27CMAnd quite a few before that too
05:30.38CMAnd yes, it's still "developers only"
05:30.41CM:)
05:31.02CMJOSF: Several of the main devs are here too and it's a very friendly channel :)
05:31.46CM:D
05:32.24mickey-twwe are working to put get more taiwan engineers to here
05:32.26mickey-twthey are a bit shy
05:32.31mickey-twand the english is sometimes a problem
05:32.43mickey-twbut that should improve
05:32.53CMWell, the majority here doesn't speak english natively anyway
05:33.53Q_ContinuumI'll be getting one.  My router runs linux, my laptop and server run Linux...now I want my phone to run Linux. :D
05:34.19CMQ_Continuum: Waiting for a GTA02 or do you want a GTA01?
05:34.26Q_ContinuumI'm going to wait.
05:34.31Q_ContinuumI'm not much of a developer
05:34.43JOSFWhat is the diff between the two ?
05:34.47CMWell, me neither, I'm a lazy bastard
05:34.50JOSFWiFi ?
05:34.56Q_Continuum01 is the "dev" model
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05:35.13Q_Continuum02 is the general consumer ready "release" model.
05:35.18CMJOSF: Yes, and faster processor, more flash, graphios accelerator and accelerometers
05:35.18Q_Continuumbasically, its still in "beta"
05:35.22JOSFSo, the 01 is the one you can not place a call with, the 02 will be different then ;-)
05:35.30Q_ContinuumYeah.
05:35.33CMNo, you can call with 01
05:35.47Q_ContinuumSweet.
05:35.50CMBut the software is still not done
05:35.58JOSFI just hope, that the design of the 02 will not bu such a crap like the design of the 01. I mean, the visual design.
05:36.08CMI can't call right now though, I've called up all my credits on my prepaid card.. :P
05:36.13Q_Continuumhaha
05:36.22CMJOSF: Hehe... Too bad for you ;)
05:36.30JOSFOriginally I wanted to buy a Motorola A780, but then Harald stepped over to develop for OpenMoko
05:36.38CMIt will use the same shell, but with LEDs in the two buttons
05:36.56JOSFUrgh...:(
05:37.07CMJOSF: He's here (LaF0rge) quite often
05:37.31CMNaa.. I think it's pretty neat looking. Sure does stand out compared to other phones
05:37.56JOSFTo me it looks emberassing. Like a Playschool toy ;)
05:37.57CMAnd the texture of the shell is nice
05:38.05CMHehe.. Well, maybe the white-orange one
05:38.10JOSFAt least the white/orange
05:38.10CMI have black silver
05:38.19Q_ContinuumJOSF: So get the emulated version, and write your own GUI, and design a new case for it :P
05:38.19JOSFbut the black-silver looks stupid too.
05:38.38Q_ContinuumI'll be getting the black-silver one, between the two currently available.
05:38.50JOSFI think the A780 looks perfect. Mucho macho techno ;-)
05:38.52CMQ_Continuum: Actually, you could design a new case. *It's easy to open and pick apart
05:39.02Q_ContinuumI might have to wait for 03 though, not sure I'll have the $$$ for a NeoGeo on 02 release.
05:39.08Q_ContinuumCM: I know :D
05:39.31Q_ContinuumJOSF: Design something people like, even YOU could make money off the phone.
05:39.32JOSFQ_Continuum: Where is the emu ? Does it run on Win32 ? ;-) I have currently only a headless linux box. Desktop is WinXP here.
05:39.32CMWell, I'm afraid you'll still have quite some time to save to a GTA02..
05:39.47CMJOSF: It runs in qemu
05:39.57Q_ContinuumIsn't it December or so for GTA02?
05:40.04CMJOSF: Or you can install ubuntu or something in a VM
05:40.23JOSFCM: Only P4 Northwood here. No dual-core, no special-ops
05:40.26Q_ContinuumWin32..?  What's this Win32 you speak of? lol
05:40.27CMQ_Continuum: Hopefully, but it's not official yet that it will be available there
05:40.34JOSFQ_Continuum: hehe
05:40.42CMJOSF: Run VMWare then if you have enough ram?
05:40.49Q_ContinuumI run one Win-XP64 box, for my legacy games.
05:40.50JOSF2GB :)
05:41.09CMInstall vmware player and there you go :D
05:41.10JOSFyeah, games, har-har. Har-Har!
05:41.17JOSFgot it ;)
05:41.28Q_ContinuumThis is my primary workstation.  Dell-preloaded Ubuntu laptop.
05:41.37CMJOSF: You mean you run windows and don't use it for games?!
05:41.40JOSFso, what is this "design a new enclosure" you people talk about ? Is this official ? Do they offer this ?
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05:41.51Q_ContinuumYou can do whatever you want to your phone.
05:41.59JOSFCM: I use it for many things, including games.
05:42.05JOSFAh, I understand.
05:42.18CMJOSF: No, but there's people planning to add customised shells or backs to the phone
05:42.25CMThere's a lot of discussions in the wiki
05:42.25Q_ContinuumThe specs are all there - the tools are there - they WANT you to modify it and improve it.
05:42.32JOSFI thought, there may have been some action being taken to make the exterioeur design also "OpenSpec" ;-))
05:42.44JOSFWill look that up in the wiki
05:42.57JOSFcool
05:43.01Q_Continuumthe specs are there...just no "standard" that I'm aware of for the case.  But you could certainly design one around it :D
05:43.11Q_ContinuumThen again, I haven't paid much attention to the development.
05:43.23JOSFThen I only need to find someone, who ports Mozilla to it and then I can throw out the UI they have ;)
05:43.38Q_ContinuumHmmm.
05:43.58CMJOSF: What do you mean port?
05:44.15CMJOSF: Everything that's in OpenEmbedded runs on the neo, basically
05:44.34CMBesides, WebKit is comming along nicely
05:44.34JOSFFirefox is available for OpenMoko? Really? Now, that's cool.
05:44.38Q_Continuumit IS linux.
05:44.42JOSFWebKit has no XUL.
05:44.51Q_ContinuumSo write it.
05:44.55JOSFI want a SmartPhone, that has XUL as the only interface.
05:45.08Q_ContinuumNo one is stopping you - get coding! lol
05:45.19JOSFNo time.
05:45.23CMJOSF: Hmm.. I think emdete was planning some kind of browser interface too
05:45.34JOSFemdete ?
05:45.46JOSFAh, a user here :)
05:45.51CMJOSF: Also, then I guess you've been keeping track of the effort to make a FireFox for mobilies
05:45.56CMYes, user here
05:46.09JOSFThere was the Minimo project.
05:46.19JOSFThe new project (Firefox mobile) will take some time.
05:46.23CMBut I think he was more into using javascript to expose the phone things
05:46.26CMYes
05:46.29JOSFI'd say >1.5 years
05:46.52JOSFMinimo is abandoned, proof-of-concept, unstable. And as far as I remember, WinMobile only.
05:47.15CMI think minimo has been revived a bit, or at least I've head some mumbeling like that
05:47.29JOSFI think, that a traditional GUI is the wrong way to go for a phone. I also think, that the hardware and the GUI must be considered to be one part.
05:47.34JOSFButtons, Wheels, etc.
05:47.41CMJOSF: Anyway, ninimo exists for OpenEmbedded
05:48.21CMs/nini/Mini/
05:48.23JOSFBut I think I have to wait and see. There is a project embedding Python as another scripting-language for XUL, so this may be interesting.
05:48.47CMI've never understood XUL
05:49.04JOSFCM: XUL is like HTML.
05:49.23CMYes, I've seen it, but I haven't gotten the greatness of it :)
05:49.25JOSFInstead HTML they use a specialized XML dialect, add Javascript and CSS. That's all.
05:49.36*** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@203.35.205.2)
05:49.42JOSFYou can write applications with it.
05:50.10JOSFAnd a lot of people undrestand it because it is so simple.
05:50.12CMYes, I've poked around some FireFox add-ins, but still.. Naaa.. :)
05:50.41JOSFTo me it is the ideal platform for any communication software like on a smartphone.
05:50.51JOSFIt's got SVG, which is scalable.
05:51.02JOSFAh, too much text I'd need to write now ;-)
05:51.12CMYes, I've seen tetris implemented in svg ;)
05:51.27CMI wonder how slow minimo is on the Neo though...
05:51.40JOSFI must put my article online that I have written about my ideal smartphone (with XUL, Twisted and Python)
05:52.03CMJOSF: Do that!
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05:52.19JOSFOkay, must go back to my XSLT ;-) Thanks for chat!
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05:52.49CMwelcome back later on :)
05:53.08CMI'll tell you how minimo worked ;)
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06:21.55Batalyxheikkit: moi
06:22.11heikkithei
06:24.40Batalyxstill in U.S.?
06:25.31CMBatalyx: Looks like it judging from hsd1.ca.comcast.net ;)
06:27.18Batalyxheikkit: I presume you're the same heikkit I know from a few years back from jyu :)
06:28.07heikkitBatalyx: oh, yeah, the same, and still in California
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06:30.19heikkitBatalyx: so you went through all those companies, just to return back to jyu :)
06:30.40Batalyxheikkit: jep
06:31.02heikkitBatalyx: was it you who was foaming about Python back in those days?
06:31.16BatalyxI think this still is the least worst option for me. And yes, it was me.
06:31.32heikkitBatalyx: just kinda funny that only in my current company have I actually fallen in with python
06:32.16heikkitcould say you were ahead of the times with python back then, or maybe I should say visionary ;)
06:32.30Batalyxthanks :)
06:33.20Batalyxit's easy to say now that "it was obvious", but back then I should have foamed even more (if that would've been possible)
06:34.31heikkitthe forced indentation kept me off of it quite a while; now I love it
06:34.48Batalyx;)
06:34.59heikkitI blame fortran
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06:35.38Batalyxdon't we all?
06:35.48heikkitheh
06:36.04heikkitso you hacking openmoko yet?
06:36.40Batalyxtry to. to be honest, it's a bit hard still.
06:37.08heikkitI am a bit on the fence about getting one... I really like to have a camera with my phone
06:37.21BatalyxI've got a few ideas to try out, but as they are based on using GPS, I can only wait...
06:37.58Batalyxyes, camera would be nice. i managed to get the university to order two neos, so ... :)
06:38.04heikkit:)
06:38.26Batalyxat least it has a camera :)
06:38.32CMExactly
06:38.35CMheikkit: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8
06:39.06heikkitthanks
06:40.20heikkitwell, I think I better get some sleep, earlyish commute tomorrow
06:40.44heikkitBatalyx: if you happen to find yourself traveling to the Bay Area, give me a ping
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06:42.06Batalyx:)
06:42.14heikkitsome runaway nautilus process is messing up my system
06:42.16BatalyxI will :)
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06:49.10CMmickey-tw: Reading this comment reminded me what you've said about Harald and Sean... ;) http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=339039&threshold=3&mode=thread&cid=21108517
06:53.58CMWow, the Neo and OpenMoko in Wired: http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2007/10/openmoko_firstlook?currentPage=all
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06:59.52mbufCM, isn't there an OpenMoko dance you can do until then?
07:00.04rohCM i wonder where the camera in the wiki comes from..
07:00.36CMroh: I think someone just added it because the SoC supports one or something
07:01.10rohCM well.. the soc does a lot of fancy things in theory..  (if you don't read the datasheet about muxed pins)
07:01.40rohdon't get me wrong.. i do not and will not state what hxd8 is yet and if ot has a cam ;)
07:02.09rohCM i just suggest that this information should be researched for its source
07:02.34CMIt does have a bit "Speculation" warning at the top of the page :)
07:03.29CMBtw, the wired article was quite positive, even if the guy flashed qtopia onto his Neo after failing to call with OpenMoko ;)
07:07.45mickey-twCM: ooh interesting!
07:08.03mickey-tw(the optimism/pessimism thing)
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07:14.58nbdas always, the truth is somewhere inbetween both sides
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07:24.03mbufbuilding with bitbake, (and autotools) if i don't get a image/usr/bin directory in "build/tmp/work/armv4t.../packagename" , what am I missing?
07:25.26Hopscotchgood morning
07:25.37mbufHopscotch, good morning
07:26.43mbufok, answering my own question, have to create directory using "install -m 0755 -d ${D}${bindir}"
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07:32.10CMmbuf: You're good at answering your own questions, I approve! :P
07:32.31mbufCM, hehe
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07:45.40ScaredyCat.ee
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07:57.38mbufeven if i append to docdir as image/usr/share/doc/packagename, the README file gets installed in /usr/share/doc; nobody uses /usr/share/doc?
08:02.08*** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@251.9.39-62.rev.gaoland.net)
08:05.41abraxa_mbuf: My box does :O
08:06.16abraxa_Just with subdirs, obviously
08:06.31mbufabraxa_, what is your docdir in setup-env?
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08:06.53mbufabraxa_, i see most applications using /usr/share/<application>
08:06.58abraxa_mbuf: I was speaking about the host sys, not OE
08:07.06mbufabraxa_, ok
08:07.10abraxa_Ah yeah, that works as well
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08:11.50mickey-twroot@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg configure
08:11.51mickey-twConfiguring openmoko-mediaplayer2
08:11.51mickey-twMust set the GCONF_CONFIG_SOURCE environment variable
08:11.51mickey-twpostinst script returned status 1
08:11.51mickey-twERROR: openmoko-mediaplayer2.postinst returned 1
08:11.52mickey-twabraxa_: ?
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08:14.24abraxa_mickey-tw: Yeah, I noticed that as well. The gconf manual said it would grab the default store if the variable is unspecified but I guess that's not true
08:14.35abraxa_I'll make a patch for the recipe
08:14.50mickey-twabraxa_: always remember, we´re not using gconf, we´re using gconf-dbus which might be stripped down
08:15.07abraxa_Oh, okay
08:16.45mickey-twtook a while
08:17.32abraxa_mickey-tw / XorA: Who of you two has time to commit? :)
08:17.44XorAabraxa_: I do
08:18.09abraxa_XorA: Please have a look at http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/mediaplayer_gconf_source.patch and bump the sane srcrev as well :)
08:18.22abraxa_(3263)
08:18.24XorAroot@fic-gta01:~$ dmesg
08:18.25XorA-sh: dmesg: Input/output error
08:18.26XorAeh?
08:19.45XorAabraxa_: BTW you dont depend on anything to provide gconftool
08:20.13abraxa_XorA: Do I have to?
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08:20.33XorAabraxa_: yes otherwise there are no guarantees gconftool gets on rootfs
08:21.19abraxa_Hmm... I don't know what dependency could fulfill that
08:21.39abraxa_gconf doesn't seem to have its own recipe =x
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08:22.03XorARDEPENDS+${PN} = "gconf" should do it, I will double check
08:22.10abraxa_Thanks a bunch :)
08:22.11XorARDEPENDS_${PN}
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08:29.07*** part/#openmoko frank1 (n=frank0@62.8.133.125)
08:30.37XorAConfiguring openmoko-mediaplayer2
08:30.37XorAI/O warning : failed to load external entity "/home/dp/zaurus/build-neo/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/openmoko-mediaplayer2-0.1.0+svnr3263-r3/image/etc/gconf/schemas/openmoko-mediaplayer.schemas"
08:30.37XorAFailed to open `/home/dp/zaurus/build-neo/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/openmoko-mediaplayer2-0.1.0+svnr3263-r3/image/etc/gconf/schemas/openmoko-mediaplayer.schemas': No such file or directory
08:30.37XorApostinst script returned status 1
08:30.38XorAERROR: openmoko-mediaplayer2.postinst returned 1
08:30.42XorACollected errors:
08:32.32*** join/#openmoko akrus (n=akrus@62.140.224.26)
08:32.35XorAgot I hate the linux scheduuler, typing bitbake is equivalent of "STOP MOUSE"
08:32.38akrushello everyone :3
08:32.47akrusdoes someone have a video with OpenMoko in action? :)
08:32.48abraxa_I admit I just copied the ${D} part from the openmoko_session recipe
08:33.05abraxa_akrus: Just search "openmoko" and "neo1973" on youtube ;3
08:33.22akrusokay :)
08:33.28akrushow is the development going on? :)
08:33.37abraxa_Slow but steady
08:33.42buzXorA: are you sure that's not just io related? look into ionicing bitbake
08:34.00buz(that helps tremendously for things like strigi or beagle)
08:34.05akrusnice, me & friend of mine really want it to come soon :)
08:34.31akrusWM really sucks :(
08:34.35buzXorA: same as nice, but for IO
08:34.54*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125)
08:34.56buzessentially, when you see mouse stopping it's usually because IO is saturated, not cpu
08:35.07buz(which is weird, but that's 25 year old PC architecture for you)
08:35.13XorAits the thing that seems to get worse every linux release, 2.0 used to be usable under heavy load :-)
08:35.34buzfreebsd4 put up better with VERY heavy load than linux ever did in my experience
08:35.53XorAbuz: not surprised, linux always sucked ass in scheduling
08:36.08buzi'd use freebsd if it wasnt such a pain to deal with ACPI on it
08:36.11*** join/#openmoko rmoravci1 (n=rmoravci@cacher6.ericsson.net)
08:36.40buzi've gone so far as to disable swap on linux, once it really starts using swap the machine becomes entirely unusable
08:37.31abraxa_buz: Disable swap? For me, my machine has ground to a halt more than once when it ran out of memory, so I actually had to add more swap to prevent that
08:37.32cjb_iemy sinclair QL put up better with heavy load than linux does :-)
08:37.46buzopposite for me
08:37.57buzto be fair, I have more memory than i need
08:38.03*** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn167185.wlan.jku.at)
08:38.15buzproblem is that when you run out of memory init may start randomly killing stuff
08:38.54Stephmwshame there isn't a 'kill me first' descriptor bit
08:39.25abraxa_Really? I wish it had here. Major memory leaks in Flash sometimes consume 50%+ of my memory, and yet it wasn't killed - nor anything else
08:39.49Stephmwmaybe it's an option?
08:40.07Stephmwon my ubuntu desktop when ram+swap is full, the biggest offenders get killed
08:40.13buzor maybe its stuff crashing when memalloc dont work?
08:40.14Stephmw(by the kernel I believe)
08:40.14abraxa_Hmm
08:40.24buzStephmw: i thought so too, either kernel or init
08:40.29abraxa_I could only guess on that matter
08:40.47buzof course flash usually crashes before memory is used up so... ;)
08:40.56abraxa_lol
08:41.21abraxa_I love how Flash on Linux is one of the best arguments against closed source
08:41.51*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@dhcp-206-100-vpn.unizh.ch)
08:42.08buzpretty much true
08:42.10buztho graphics driver are even better examples
08:42.24buznvidia is decent enough but ati? useless, really
08:42.27Stephmwmy biggest memory hogs are firefox and AutoPano Pro
08:42.27abraxa_Oh gawd...
08:42.37abraxa_buz: Yeah, don't remind me of my ATI days
08:42.50StephmwAPP can easily take 6GB of memory when rendering
08:43.00buzapparently ati now has AIGLX
08:43.10buz(i dont really believe it but so they say)
08:43.39gaminthe behaviour of the kernel in an OOM situation following memory over commitment can be altered: http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/Documentation/sysctl/vm.txt
08:44.34abraxa_Thanks, gamin :)
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08:45.03gaminabraxa_: my pleasure :)
08:45.46buzeither i cant read or it doesnt really say how to configure it???
08:46.43gaminecho "2" > /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory
08:46.52buzthat says you cant overcommit
08:47.02buzah well that may help
08:47.38*** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236)
08:51.14abraxa_zone_reclaim_mode 2 sounds useful, too
08:51.44abraxa_"Zone reclaim will write out dirty pages if a zone fills up and so effectively throttle the process."
08:51.59buzwell seeing that i dont use swap ...
08:52.17abraxa_Well okay :)
08:52.20buz(there's another reason why i dont use swap: i dont want passwords written to swap and cryptswap is unbearably slow)
08:52.47abraxa_I guess? I'm not that paranoid (yet)
08:52.48abraxa_;)
08:53.27buzwell this is a notebook
08:54.12buzi've also encrypted /home
08:54.27abraxa_Oh, that does make sense then
08:55.21buzcrypthome is kinda stupid if you can fish the passwords from somewhere ;)
08:55.50abraxa_lol yeah
08:55.54*** join/#openmoko cb30 (n=unkdfnow@dsl-245-173-227.telkomadsl.co.za)
08:56.03abraxa_XorA: Any success?
08:56.41buzbut ack, i guess i am paranoid ;)
08:57.42CMbuz: You're not, we're all trying to rob you blind :P
08:58.27buzCM: that assumption comes with my studies, anyhow
08:59.10CMabraxa_: The mediaplayer is mentioned, but not screenshot of the gui: http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2007/10/openmoko_firstlook?currentPage=all
08:59.18*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.66.8)
08:59.22CM*no screenshot
09:00.05abraxa_Nice =3
09:00.49buzdoes the media player play movies already?
09:01.45mickey-tw*sigh*
09:01.52XorAabraxa_: pushed
09:01.58mickey-twi wish people would stop calling us the linux i-phone-killer
09:02.04mickey-twwe are not and will never be
09:02.17XorAi-phone is already dead :-)
09:02.44abraxa_buz: Define "play" ;)   - it can load mpegs and show some frames but it's not smooth yet
09:02.50abraxa_XorA: Thanks! :D
09:03.07buzwell that's appraoching play ;)
09:03.16buzand might get fixed by more cpu in GTA02 ;)
09:03.20XorAabraxa_: I forget you dont monitor checkin notices on #oe :-)
09:03.27abraxa_buz: And by using mplayer, yup
09:03.39abraxa_XorA: Maybe I should, huh?
09:03.50XorAabraxa_: nah, they are upto 4 hours late most times
09:04.09abraxa_Oh, wow
09:05.37abraxa_"Eager to put the promise of a Linux-powered iPhone killer to the test"... that's... bold, lol
09:05.43*** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p54AF7C70.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:06.30buzit may eventually turn out to be an iphone competitor but not until GTA03
09:06.53buzbecause it needs a complete redesign first ;)
09:07.02hrwand in gta03 time who knows what apple will release
09:07.09*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.66.8)
09:07.35buzif it was for me, i'd prefer a TyTN II killer
09:07.42abraxa_Apple does have cash and personnel OpenMoko, Inc. just won't have so it's an unfair battle to begin with
09:08.14buzwell i'm still wondering about that meizu m8 thingy
09:08.24buzif that hardware is real, there's some indication that you can do it on a budget
09:08.47abraxa_Highly doubful in my opinion
09:09.40buzslimming down neo would go a long way, and thats definitely doable
09:10.36mbufif i put the Neo1973 connected to a PC on the LAN; is there anyway we can directly ssh into the Neo1973, rather than having to ssh into the PC first?
09:10.50buzonly if you use the pc as router
09:11.26mbufbuz, ahh ok
09:11.46buzactually maybe you can do portforwarding on the pc somehow
09:12.16CMI wonder if this stuff will work on the GTA02: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6660413369.html  (Qtopia warning)
09:13.09gaminmbuf: quick and dirty would be to use ssh for the port forwarding.
09:13.18mbufgamin, ok
09:14.00*** join/#openmoko geneberg (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-12c6cbe9914abae8)
09:14.35XorAmbuf: bridge the neo usb interface to the lan interface
09:14.54buzCM: 1MIO MIPS for that?
09:15.01buzseems rather waste of power
09:15.12CMbuz: I was wondering about that too.. wtf are they processing?
09:15.22buzwell unless that includes the 3d stuff ;)
09:15.27buz(which i highly doubt)
09:16.07buzbut i have to say, the trolls are up to some seriously neat stuff ;)
09:16.17CMHehe
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09:17.28gaminmbuf: ssh -l root -L 7777:192.168.0.202:22
09:18.02gaminthen any connect to your desktop machine on port 7777 gets forwarded to the neo
09:19.02gaminthus you need to ssh -p 7777 yourdeskktop_ip
09:20.41mbufgamin, i see
09:21.20mbufif i install a package, that a .desktop placed in /usr/share/applications, what else need to be done to list the application in the "All Application" menu list?
09:22.07mbuf*package, a .desktop is placed in
09:33.22*** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com)
09:41.30kristian-mmbuf that's pretty much it. - you can copy an existing file rename it and change the content
09:41.52mbufkristian-m, it doesn't show up in the application list
09:42.27kristian-mmbuf you'll have to restart the xserver (today app)
09:42.49rwhitbymbuf: connect the neo to a router on the lan running openwrt with a usb port.
09:43.03mbufrwhitby, will get one, thanks :)
09:43.05mbufkristian-m, ok
09:43.08rwhitby(that's what I do)
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10:20.15CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3264 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/sms_cb.c: Get a correct message index value on reading a SMS (Erin Yueh)
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10:26.29PBeckhi
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10:29.54CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3265 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Adding decoder TP-DCS, and it's based on 3GPP TS23.038 Clause 4. (Erin Yueh)
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11:23.06faernis there one official mediaplayer for openmoko? or are there a lot of small projects going on?
11:23.36*** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk)
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11:25.42mickey-twthe official mediaplayer is written by abraxa_
11:25.47mickey-twopenmoko-mediaplayer
11:26.11faernok, nice :P will check it out
11:26.29CMfaern: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/Screenshot-6.png
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11:27.17faernnice. but can't find it on the projects page
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11:29.08faernI came up with two feature requests. sorting music by bpm & tone. as some of the new sony ericsons can do. and number two: make dynamic playlists, fetching prefered songs from last.fm (exaile can do this)
11:29.53CMfaern: Wow, how does that bpm/tone thing work? You'll have to scan through all mp3's...
11:30.13guaquabpm/tone seems like a waste of time
11:30.20faernCM, yes the first time it scans the collection
11:30.21*** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@dre84.lss.supelec.fr)
11:30.36guaquaaudioscrobbler recommendations would be great though
11:30.47faernso you can select fast & happy music or slow & sad. or fast & sad and so on later
11:31.13CMYes, audioscrobbler is nice
11:31.16bedboiahah
11:31.19bedboii didn't know this
11:31.25faernI have a friend with that function in his phone. it works great
11:31.27bedboii'm really a bad user
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11:41.46mbufhow to restart X server on the Neo1973?
11:42.07mickey-twsomething like /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart
11:42.25mbufmickey-tw, thanks
11:43.17CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3266 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/libgsmd/libgsmd.c: adding return rc to lgsm_send_simple (Andrzej Zaborowski)
11:47.33CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3267 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 3 dirs): handle CME and CMS errors (Erin Yueh)
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11:49.58hrwmickey-tw: how goes .tw talks?
11:50.07mickey-twnot bad
11:50.13mickey-twlots is changing
11:50.15mickey-twsome good
11:50.18mickey-twsome well....
11:50.24mickey-tw*shrug* lets see
11:50.36mickey-twweather is nice and i´m feeling well though
11:50.37mickey-tw:)
11:50.42hrwthats good
11:50.45mickey-twyep
11:50.45jserv--some terrible :P
11:50.47CIA-13openmoko: 03tick * r3268 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/vendor_ti.c:
11:50.47CIA-13openmoko: Patch to enable CPHS ( Common PCN Handset Specification),
11:50.47CIA-13openmoko: and retrieve the voicemail number from SIM card for TI vendor.(Erin Yueh)
11:50.57hrwmickey-tw: our part of world is rather not nice now
11:51.03CMWho's the hard working tick?
11:51.09mickey-twCM: the new gsmd maintainer
11:51.16CM:)
11:51.16hrw~hail tick
11:51.17aptACTION bows down to tick and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
11:51.17mickey-twwe have a strong gsmd team now
11:51.18mickey-twit´s rocking
11:51.27mickey-twand most other teams are strong as well
11:51.29CMI can see that, sweet.. :D
11:51.40mickey-twneed to come back more often
11:52.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 958 has been created by rishi_date(AT)yahoo.com
11:52.02cdbot2* * GSM modem dead
11:52.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=958
11:52.24*** join/#openmoko jujun_ (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr)
11:52.27mickey-twhrw: cold weather or something different?
11:52.52hrwcold
11:53.10mickey-twya, 20something degree here
11:53.17mickey-twperfect climate for a european
11:54.35cjb_iemickey-tw: you hiring? ;-)
11:54.58ewon(if the whole place hasn't burned down before then)
11:55.05buzis the air quality in taiwan as bad as in HK and mainland?
11:55.19buzif so, 2X degree won't help much ;)
11:55.41jserv--buz, it depends on which region in Taiwan you refer to.
11:55.54buzi suppose FIC is in taipeh right?
11:56.02jserv--buz, in east area of Taiwan, the air quality is very nice.
11:56.13jserv--buz, but in Taipei, it is a bit bad.
11:56.34jserv--buz, somehow same as HK.
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12:04.36mickey-twcjb_ie: if you´re from .tw, feel free to apply :) we want to increase the .tw team here
12:04.47mickey-tws/increase/add people to/
12:05.31*** join/#openmoko jassik (n=jasbir@125.62.98.142)
12:05.54hrwif you are not from .tw then... find job in other company?
12:06.47ewonmight look up openmoko in a few years if I'm done with the video games industry
12:06.51mickey-twyeah. there´s plenty of positions for linux engineers atm. isn´t it?
12:07.00CMNot many from .tw in here ever (except maybe a dev or two(Hi jserv--))
12:07.16*** join/#openmoko egeli09 (n=keynet@88.242.58.2)
12:07.16mickey-twCM: we´re trying to improve that, however IRC is also a distraction as you might know...
12:07.34CMmickey-tw: Tell me about it, I'm the most distracted guy here.. :P
12:08.02CMBeing bored out of my mind at work and about to change doesn't help...
12:16.27cjb_iemickey-tw: i wouldn't mind moving somewhere random like tw :)
12:18.16cjb_iecurrently in ie; the tw weather sounds nicer
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12:24.24SpeedEvilcjb_ie: your random location is: 94.369E, 52.391N
12:25.47gi-elthat sounds cold
12:25.52xzcvczxwill libgsmd provide a function to disable/enable the radio in the device?
12:26.08xzcvczxaka is it its job to provide something like that
12:26.11_diego_seems so
12:26.36_diego_i know that i can power off gsm from libgsm-tool
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12:26.49SpeedEvilGismo_C: Southern russia, 100 miles from the mogolian border.
12:26.54SpeedEvilgi-el: even
12:27.03SpeedEvilBut the random never lies!
12:27.04xzcvczxthanks _diego_
12:27.47xzcvczx19/85 for getting xorg :(
12:27.59cjb_ieSpeedEvil: ah, but that's not random and like tw :p
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12:30.50gi-elhmz
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12:31.16gi-elthe qtopia-core_4.3.1 bb file installs libs and incs in a weird location in staging without saying so in its pkgconfig files
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13:32.10mbufwhat will be the SRC_URI for cvs repository at projects.openmoko.org?
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13:36.07CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3269 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/detail-area.c):
13:36.07CIA-13openmoko: * src/detail-area.c: (detail_area_update_info): Check for NULL before
13:36.07CIA-13openmoko:  unreferencing the pixbuf
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13:54.18StylusEater_Workdoes it really take 12 hours to charge the battery?
13:54.36Mekif you only charge it with 100mA it probably will...
13:55.19StylusEater_WorkI left my neo "sleeping" last night and now it won't wake up... so I think the battery is dead.  I've had it plugged into my comp for about an hour
13:55.23StylusEater_Workit still won't turn on
13:55.33CMStylusEater_Work: You have to take the battery out first
13:55.34StylusEater_Workthere is power to that specific port
13:55.38StylusEater_WorkCM: I did
13:55.43StylusEater_WorkCM: and replaced it
13:55.49CMStylusEater_Work: Oh.. For how long?
13:55.58StylusEater_WorkI'd say three seconds
13:55.59CMTakes about a minute at least, some say more
13:56.04StylusEater_Workreally?
13:56.08StylusEater_Workhrm. alrighty
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13:56.25CMAnyway, I did the same before, leaving it sleepign during night
13:56.52CMHad to take the battery out for a minute, but then it only took abou 1h of charging to get it into uboot at least
13:57.02StylusEater_WorkCM: tasty. :-)
13:57.07CMAnd then it's quick with 500mW charging :)
13:57.25StylusEater_Workhas any made or found a portable charger?
13:58.05CMStylusEater_Work: No that I know of, and Harald posted a bug yesterday with the know issue that the Neo only charges 100mw from dumb usb-wall chargers
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13:58.25CMI asked the same a long time ago about an usb car charger
13:58.29StylusEater_WorkCM: hrm
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13:58.45StylusEater_Workbrb. coffee.
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14:12.04StylusEater_WorkCM: I'm not an EE guy, but I bet it'd be easy enough to fab some portable do it yourself charger.
14:14.13MekStylusEater_Work: the problem right now is that the NEO won't charge at full speed (500mA) unless the charger tells the neo it can provide that (i.e. is a full usb host thing)
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14:15.04StylusEater_Workhrm
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14:16.15CMTo be USB compliant I think you have to be polite and ask for 500mW, but for a dumb chargers that doesn't answer it should just pull up to that anyway..
14:16.31CMI mean unless it's a lapto that explicitly says no
14:16.37CMp
14:17.20zashif the charger just pushes 500mW?
14:17.52zashor 1W
14:18.02zashOR 1TW!!!
14:19.12zashis that programmable?
14:19.21zashpm-stuff
14:19.40CMI don't really know. 100mW and 500mW is, but I don't know how it works
14:19.53CMu-boot sets it
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14:20.02CMAnd there is a Fast Charge option
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14:20.55zashafaik usb has a 'can i have 100mW more plz' command of some sort
14:21.54abraxa_Random note: mA, not mW ;)
14:22.09CMabraxa_: Yes, thanks..
14:22.19CM:)
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14:23.47CMWikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Power
14:23.49abraxa_I wonder if it really would be a problem to draw 500mA for two seconds and see if the current can be delivered or not
14:24.14abraxa_If it can then I'd guess that it's safe to assume that the host can deliver it, just doesn't speak USB
14:24.33abraxa_If it can't... go down to 100mA
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14:25.12Mekyou might blow some fuse? :P
14:25.18Xx13abraxa: are you sure that won't cook the supplier if it can't deliver the 500?
14:25.22CMI don't know what the spec says if the host doesn't answer the "can I have 100mA more?" question
14:26.01abraxa_Xx13: Hence the two seconds
14:26.10CMBtw, interesting for phone companies: As of June 14, 2007, all new mobile phones applying for license in China are required to adopt the USB port as a power port.
14:26.18StylusEater_Workon my box it's showing MxPwr=500mA and Manufacturer = Linux 2.6.22.5-moko11/s3c2410_udc
14:26.32SpeedEvilabraxa_: consider that the user has a flash card and a keyboard plugged in to an unpowered hub, tehn the neo.
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14:26.58SpeedEvilabraxa_: plug in the neo and try to draw 500mA, and you cut power to the flash card, possibly corrupting it, certainly
14:27.06Mekand an usb=powered hard-dirve :)
14:27.17SpeedEvilabraxa_: stopping whatever applications are using it.
14:27.29abraxa_SpeedEvil: Yeah, I guess a brownout would be bad for the card
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14:27.46Xx13usb hub should be able to negotiate power requirements
14:28.19StylusEater_Workhttp://rafb.net/p/AaosAG89.html
14:28.22CMSpeedEvil: But how does other stuff like mp3 players handle dumb chargers then?
14:28.46zashif the host wont answer on 'can i has more pwr plz?' it could try to draw 500mA and see what happens?
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14:28.59abraxa_zash: That's what I said ;)
14:29.05mbufhow do i make a release in GForge?
14:30.04zashabraxa_: aha!
14:31.15SpeedEvilThe right way unfortunately to do this is complex.
14:31.33SpeedEvilFirstly, you check for a USB bus in suspend, and send a wakeup signal.
14:32.09SpeedEvilThen you ask the host if you can have 500mA, and if it approves, draw that.
14:32.17SpeedEvilIf it does not, you only draw 100mA.
14:32.31StylusEater_WorkSpeedEvil: could we document that on the wiki?
14:32.40SpeedEvilIf however the host is not speaking USB protocol at all, or responding to standby wake requests, you start drawing power.
14:32.52StylusEater_Workit'd be nice to hammer out a rough algorithm for coding
14:32.54SpeedEvil(because it's not a functioning USB bus)
14:32.54CMAt 100mA?
14:33.07SpeedEvilStylusEater_Work: much of this must be implemented in u-boot
14:33.29StylusEater_Workok.
14:33.32SpeedEvilStylusEater_Work: as booting all the way to linux takes a fair amount of power.
14:33.50SpeedEvilAnd you may be working with a really low battery.
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14:34.18StylusEater_Workyes it does.
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14:34.38CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3270 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/appmanager-window.c src/tool-box.c):
14:34.38CIA-13openmoko: * src/appmanager-window.c: (main): Add notebook for list/details
14:34.38CIA-13openmoko: seperation as per OpenMoko 2007.2 style
14:34.38CIA-13openmoko: * src/tool-box.c: (tool_box_new): Fix toolbar
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14:35.08SpeedEvilSomewhere this is documented on teh wiki.
14:35.16SpeedEvilI'll have a look for it later.
14:35.16abraxa_Hiho thos :)
14:35.22thoshey abraxa_
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14:49.50gamino we have the gnome canvas as
14:50.00gaminoops
14:50.14gamindo we have the gnome canvas as part of the framework
14:50.53*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
14:50.54gaminor is only GdkDrawable available?
14:51.16hrwgamin: gnome libs are evil
14:51.23gamin:)
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14:55.52CMxzcvczx: How does that prevent you from programming?
14:56.20CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3271 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appmanager2/ (ChangeLog src/detail-area.c src/navigation-area.c):
14:56.20CIA-13openmoko: * src/detail-area.c: (detail_area_new):
14:56.20CIA-13openmoko: * src/navigation-area.c: (navigation_area_new):
14:56.20CIA-13openmoko: Remove horizontal scaling and improve package list clarity
14:57.09*** join/#openmoko terracon (n=greisky@CPE0050da822b70-CM0012254076d6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
14:57.16thosgamin: use cairo on a GtkDrawingArea?
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15:05.44xzcvczxCM: past the text based programming part so i need gtk for testing
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15:29.29faernhmm. my make openmoko-devel-image finally completed.. but how do I run the emulator?
15:30.39*** join/#openmoko orino (n=orino@84-74-193-114.dclient.hispeed.ch)
15:30.39Mek'make flash-qemu-local' to flash it to qemu and 'make run-qemu' to run it afair
15:32.28faernaa. thank you
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15:42.16faernmy mkdosfs resides in /usr/sbin. not /sbin. any way I can change the config for the makefile without it getting overwritten on the next update?
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15:46.48xzcvczxfaern: are you talking about on your host system?
15:46.55faernyes
15:47.12xzcvczxif you are feeling lazy just symlink /usr/sbin/mkdosfs to /sbin/mkdosfs
15:47.30faernok.. guess that will do for now
15:47.53xzcvczxwhat distro do you use?
15:48.00faerngentoo
15:48.45*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X048a.x.pppool.de)
15:49.16xzcvczxwell /usr/sbin is really a more logical place to put it than /sbin
15:50.03StylusEater_Workthen again... it is gentoo... ;-)
15:50.11faern:)
15:51.00xzcvczxStylusEater_Work: what do you use?
15:51.09StylusEater_Workdebian
15:51.32xzcvczxno comment then
15:51.42xzcvczx:P
15:51.48anrp:o
15:52.13StylusEater_Workhaha
15:52.42StylusEater_Workmeh. I use rhel and fedora primarily... but at home I'm moving to debian slowly
15:52.48*** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com)
15:52.56StylusEater_Workmaybe lfs in the future...but it's a lot of work and consumes time I don't have
15:53.15faern/bin/sh: line 1: arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm: No such file or directory < how come it didnt create that for me
15:53.40xzcvczxpingpignpignpignpignpignpingpingpingpingping
15:54.06anrpmisuzu ~ # blockdev --getsize /dev/raid_vg/home
15:54.06anrp-1781555200
15:54.08*** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com)
15:54.10anrp... uh D:
15:54.27DukeOfURLgood morning
15:55.04DukeOfURLI've been gone for a week.  Any news?  GPS?  GSM firmware?
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15:55.20swel024gah damn wireless
15:55.52hrwanrp: ops?
15:56.00anrpits too large, i guess ~_~
15:56.02anrpbut still
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16:01.47anrpDukeOfURL: i believe it is a no
16:01.51xzcvczx;;;;;;;kjknkjn
16:01.52anrpfor all of the above
16:02.08torporyo
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16:04.32xzcvczxwow my wireless is crap at the moment
16:04.41anrpwireless can be that way
16:04.56faernnow I have this error while running make flash-qemu-local
16:04.56faernhttp://pastebin.ca/749276
16:05.27faerndid I forgot something? I ran make build-qemu before. but thats all
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16:06.18faernI didn't find any doc on how to run qemu.. it all stopped after make openmoko-devel-image
16:06.18xzcvczxanrp: problem with concrete buildings as well
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16:20.16faernon talk in the wiki they say installing lynx should solve the problem. but I have lynx installed
16:20.51faernmaybe it is also using an absolute path. and my install might have it somewhere else
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16:33.24dapeei
16:33.41dapedoes anyone know why there's no /usr/share/locale on the device image?
16:33.56dapeI was just wondering where should I find translations
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16:43.05xzcvczxanyone here use ubuntu?
16:44.58ewonyes
16:45.31xzcvczxewon: what do they use for kernel configuration? do they just have 90% of the stuff as modules or ?
16:46.27ewonyeah, afaik it's mostly modules
16:46.31xzcvczxoh ok
16:46.33ewonnot a giant-monolithic kernel
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16:49.17berkushmmm
16:49.33berkusi have problems talking to my gsmd
16:51.30berkushere's the script i use to manually start gsmd here: http://rafb.net/p/8gWTtf29.html
16:51.46CIA-13openmoko: 03thomas * r3272 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-battery.c):
16:51.46CIA-13openmoko: * src/openmoko-panel-battery.c: (timeout),
16:51.46CIA-13openmoko: (mb_panel_applet_create): Only update the display if the battery status
16:51.46CIA-13openmoko:  has changed
16:51.57thoshow to waste your battery life #1: get the battery applet to refresh even if the status hasn't changed
16:52.17Vegarhehe
16:52.18thos#2 is get it to do this using a timer at millisecond granularity
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16:52.33Vegarthos: does intel's powertop run on the neo?
16:52.37thosunfortunately can't fix #2 until we use glib >= 2.14
16:53.08thosVegar: given that the neo uses an arm processor, I very much doubt it ;-)
16:54.16Vegar"PowerTOP combines various sources of information from the kernel into one convenient screen so that you can see how well your system is doing, and which components are the biggest problem."
16:54.25Vegardoesn't appear to have any hardware requirements
16:54.36CIA-13openmoko: 03chris * r3273 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:54.36CIA-13openmoko: * src/Makefile.am:
16:54.36CIA-13openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_dial_button_clicked_cb),
16:54.36CIA-13openmoko: (bg_child_expose_cb), (set_time_idle), (today_create_home_page),
16:54.36CIA-13openmoko: (location_notify), (main):
16:54.37berkusproblem with gsmd is: first command goes thru and comes back with a response. seonds one never comes back
16:54.38CIA-13openmoko: * src/today-pim-journal.c: (today_pim_journal_update_messages),
16:54.42CIA-13openmoko: (header_clicked_cb), (missed_calls_button_press_cb),
16:54.48thosVegar: rob tells me it will
16:55.05ckuetheVegar: it relies on acpi
16:55.08thosVegar: "powertop is just a frontend to /proc/timer_stats with some intel specific bling."
16:55.11Vegarah
16:55.18Vegaryes, true
16:55.23Vegarforgot about that part
16:56.50robsterVegar: oh, thos quoted me anyway.
16:57.56Vegarthos: the battery applet still polls a lot, doesn't it?
16:58.34thosVegar: every ten seconds
16:58.40berkushere's the gsmd log: http://rafb.net/p/s3w94y60.html
16:58.42Vegarok, not too bad
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16:58.43berkusanyone got an idea?
16:59.17thosberkus: have you upgraded?
17:00.02berkusdepends on how recent was the image i put on. this is one of latest (23 oct) celtune builds
17:02.20abraxa_Anyone here with GConf experience?
17:05.18thosabraxa_: what's the question?
17:06.55abraxa_thos: Situation is this: I add the app's directory to the listener using gconf_client_add_dir(), then add notifications for each key. It all works perfectly when using the app to alter the values - the UI gets notified of the changes.
17:07.36abraxa_However when I open a console over SSH and run "dbus-launch gconftool-2 -t bool -s /apps/openmoko/mediaplayer/shuffle false" I can see that the key gets updated - but the application does not get notified of the change
17:07.55abraxa_...and I just can't figure out why.
17:08.30thosabraxa_: ah I've run into that too
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17:08.47thosabraxa_: if you do it from within the same dbus-launch as the application it seems to work fine
17:09.53*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.165.65)
17:10.07abraxa_thos: I'm glad it's not an issue with my app then :)
17:10.50abraxa_Thanks for helping, Thomas
17:11.12thosabraxa_: no problem
17:11.32*** join/#openmoko xzcvczx_ (n=swel024@ip-58-28-132-112.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz)
17:11.56xzcvczx_oo leopard tomorrow
17:14.17ScaredyCatRaaarr!!!
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17:19.48BlueRaidcu
17:21.13*** join/#openmoko mickey-tw (n=mickeyl@122-124-64-34.dynamic.hinet.net)
17:21.25xzcvczx_acutally leopard today :S
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17:36.58PBeck_hi
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17:43.47berkushmm, what's the easiest way to setup xcompiling toolchain for openmoko?
17:44.31*** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@a88-112-29-178.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
17:45.45berkusis this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#How_to_build the correct recipe?
17:46.44xzcvczxberkus: probably mokomakefile
17:46.55xzcvczxthen you can just use the gcc that that generates for ti
17:46.56xzcvczxit
17:48.02berkusok, reading it
17:48.20berkusa few days to build system does sound like ole-good-gentoo-days
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17:54.11torporberkus: see also http://w1xer.de/OpenMoko_DevNotesDRAFT.txt
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17:56.43abraxa_thos: Do you happen to know if I can just launch the media player in the .desktop file or whether I need to do a "dbus-launch openmoko-mediaplyer" in there as well?
17:57.17mickey-twyou need the latter
17:57.23mickey-twyou can do
17:57.29mickey-twnah
17:57.29mickey-twsorry
17:57.34mickey-twno need to do it in the .desktop file
17:57.43mickey-twwhen you launch from within X, it`s already set up
17:57.54mickey-twwe might set export `dbus-launch` in the profile soon
17:57.59mickey-twso you can just forget about it
17:58.37pvanhoofstill in Taiwan mickey-tw?
17:58.45abraxa_mickey-tw: Ah okay, thanks
17:58.46mickey-twpvanhoof: yes
17:58.55pvanhoofStill good weather? :)
17:58.55mickey-twpvanhoof: leaving on 30th
17:59.06mickey-twpvanhoof: humidity has raised a bit, but still ok
17:59.10pvanhoofok
17:59.29mickey-twi have heard you have been contacted by our Engineering Manager?
17:59.36pvanhoofNot yet no
17:59.39mickey-twoh
17:59.42mickey-twstrange
18:00.07pvanhoofI'd say, ping him about it :)
18:00.16torporwhat're you guys working on together?
18:00.18mickey-twi´ll do it
18:00.20pvanhoofIf he needs an email address, me@pvanhoof.be
18:00.27pvanhoof+32437888449
18:00.29mickey-twexecutive summary: i'm no longer in charge of the platform as a whole
18:00.36mickey-twso you will need to deal with him
18:00.39pvanhoofokay
18:00.49pvanhoofRight
18:01.39pvanhooftorpor, ICBM technology (hi there Echelon user!)
18:01.50torporsweet!  i want one.  where can i order it?
18:02.22pvanhoofIf you would have a bank account that could afford it, you would have known already torpor :)
18:02.40pvanhoofDon't call us, we'll call you !
18:02.43torporbank accounts?  who uses those any more, in the ICBM market
18:03.03torpori've got a warehouse full of hookers and blow i could let you into for a weekend or two ..
18:03.10pvanhoofTrue, with dollars being so valuable on the market :), must probably either trade in oil or in gold
18:03.26pvanhoofs/must/most
18:03.31torporseriously though, platform?  engineer?  sounds interesting .. do tell!
18:04.07pvanhoofWe'll tell, soon :)
18:04.18torporyou guys making openmoko-based products?
18:04.25torporcoz i wanna do that too, and not just cell phones.
18:04.55mickey-twreally late here... /me going to bed
18:04.57mickey-twg'night
18:05.02pvanhoofWell, I suggest starting a project that you think the phone could use, torpor
18:05.09torporpvanhoof: i have.
18:05.14torpori'm working on music software for the neo
18:05.15pvanhoofand then convince somebody at openmoko that they need it badly
18:05.34torportonight i'm adding a bluetooth panel to settingsGUI so i can use wireles bluetooth devices..
18:05.52pvanhoofand then tell em that you can make it integrate nicely
18:07.27pvanhoofbrb
18:07.30faernin what stage of the build is it supposed to create "moko/build/qemu/uImage-2.6.*-fic-gta01.bin"? because I don't have one, and that's what screwing up my flashing
18:07.43xzcvczxim working on something that i have never seen on a cellphone before... aka actually being original :P
18:07.52torporxzcvczx: cool.
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18:12.05xzcvczxwhat do people use for a c ide in linux?
18:12.19torporcscope
18:12.22torpor+vim
18:12.48drathhe asked for a ide :P
18:12.53torporcscope is an ide
18:13.06*** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.72)
18:13.17drath"Introduction Cscope is a developer's tool for browsing source code.
18:13.40torporthats what you do with IDE's.
18:13.42drathxzcvczx: Eclispe, KDevelop, Anjuta, just to name a few
18:14.11xzcvczxdrath: how good is eclipse for c? i have only ever used it for java
18:14.26drathxzcvczx: good enough, and it's getting better with every release
18:14.39xzcvczxi only really started c programming a couple of weeks ago
18:14.41drathxzcvczx: Eclipse Europa and CDT 4.0 is quite nice to work with
18:14.45faernxzcvczx, I have used it for c++ and I really like it
18:14.50xzcvczxok
18:14.57xzcvczxthanks
18:19.06CIA-13openmoko: 03abraxa * r3274 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
18:19.06CIA-13openmoko: Substitute sqrt(a^2+b^2) by appromixation to speed up gesture recognition
18:19.06CIA-13openmoko: Add GConf support, part III (mission complete)
18:19.07CIA-13openmoko: Update GConf schema
18:19.07CIA-13openmoko: Use omp prefix for global variables in main_page.c as well
18:22.23berkuswhere is u-boot taken from, SF.net cvs?
18:23.16berkusahh.. git
18:24.27faernThis is getting very annoying. I get no error messages whatsoever up until "make flash-qemu-local" that complains about "openmoko/flash.sh: line 27: cd: ../tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01: No such file or directory"
18:24.41faernin what step of the build is that created?
18:25.08faernI get no errors nor that dir. is there any command I missed?
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18:28.38berkusmkdir -p maybe?
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18:30.42faernbut shouldnt there be content? :P
18:31.04faernalthough I have neo1973 in that dir
18:31.43faernI changed flash.sh to point to that instead.. now the flashing continues. lets see if it completes
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18:37.04cjb_iestiff competition for openmoko/neo1973: http://url.ie/6dm
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18:38.52faernYay! now I have a qemu session up. but whats the equivalent for aux & power on the keyboard
18:39.16xzcvczxspace and something
18:39.26xzcvczxcnat remember the other one enter maybe
18:39.28rohreturn
18:40.07faernnah. no go here
18:40.37faerncjb_ie, haha. good one :P
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18:47.12xzcvczxhas anyone installed mysql or another db server on their moko?
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18:48.46torportinysql
18:50.04xzcvczxwoot finally got xorg installing
18:51.12xzcvczxtorpor: you know any good tutorials for c+sql? as i was just going to use textfiles but a db is probably a much better idea
18:51.33torporno on the tutorials, but i'm sure they're out there.
18:51.46xzcvczxok thanks
18:51.50CIA-13openmoko: 03jserv * r3275 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/Makefile.am:
18:51.50CIA-13openmoko: formal version generation for gsmd-version.h considering release
18:51.50CIA-13openmoko: version or not (svn repository).
18:52.18torporjust get the source package and scope it out .. pretty easy really.
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18:59.58xzcvczxfinally in x
19:00.10*** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BB042.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:00.22gaminxzcvczx: you may have a look into sqlite
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19:04.29xzcvczxgamin: cheers will look at that too
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19:08.12gaminxzcvczx: they where Google O'reilly open source award winner 2005. Imho the best small sql engine around. C API and good documentation. The GPE apps use it as backend and thus already in the feeds. Many others use it too, i.e. nokia's maemo-mapper. So prevents you from adding another db-engine to the tight space on the flash
19:08.42xzcvczxkewl
19:08.58xzcvczxas soon as i get a browser i can have a look at it
19:09.07gaminoh and php uses it as its standard db since 5.0
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19:10.26gaminunfortunately php uses still sqlite 2, whcih is not compatible with sqlite 3.
19:10.32dsilvais buildhost.openmoko.org down?
19:10.55gaminphp actually runs quite nicely on the neo :-p
19:12.21Mekhmm... is buildhost.openmoko.org supposed to be not reachable?
19:12.46dsilvaMek: i can't get to it either
19:12.52dsilvaMek: since about 10 minutes ago
19:13.18enjahovathat happened first time i tried to build
19:13.20enjahovascared shit out of me
19:13.21Mekah... when I try to ping it I get a destination host unreachable reply from some german .hetzner.de host...
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19:13.42cjb_ieit might be down for a ram upgrade
19:13.57gaminquestion: mickeyl said he is no longer in charge of the platform as a whole. is that good (i.e. he has more time for development) or is that bad, i.e. less community, more management?
19:14.00cjb_iehetzner were meant to be doing that at some point, iirc
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19:14.18guaquagamin: i'm thinking more development
19:14.22PBeckre
19:14.31xzcvczxcjb_ie: lol i was about to say thats a rather exact explanantion
19:14.38xzcvczxand i cant spell
19:14.54guaquathere's probably a reason mickey's not in charge anymore, and i think it's got to do with the maturity of the platform
19:15.05guaquai.e. the general structure is there now
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19:15.49abraxa_Mek: Hetzner is a German host, nothing special about that domain
19:17.41gaminabraxa_: a bit further above you had a question of d-bus over ssh: that is known to be broken and is intentionally so unless someone fixes ssh to forward th d-bus session. Otherwise the d-bus on your desktop is used and not the one on your neo
19:19.19gaminabraxa_: you need to export the DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS in order to make remote dbus work.
19:19.44abraxa_gamin: Ahh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up :)
19:20.23abraxa_I'm just going to be naive then and assume that GConf will work as intended as long as all applications involved run on the Neo itself
19:21.21*** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net)
19:21.51gaminFrom Havoc's Blog (about d-bus): Alternative transports and X forwarding.  DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS should be ssh-forwarded and tunneled, just like DISPLAY. Until this is done, remote applications won't really work right. And the sooner this is done, the sooner a new-enough version of ssh will get rolled out to distributions.
19:22.23gaminthere was a long discussion on the freedesktop ML
19:24.13abraxa_Long discussion about what? Whether this is the proper way to do things or not?
19:24.32gaminabraxa_: yes, about d-bus and remote sessions.
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19:24.43abraxa_Ahh okay
19:26.22berkusanybody got a guide for properly building u-boot handy?
19:26.23gaminbut to get it work you really only need to run in a terminal on the neo: #env| grep DBUS_SESSION > /tmp/dbussession     and then set the value in the remote shell.
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19:27.17gaminthat gets you rid of all messages like: "(openmoko-dates:5496): libecal-WARNING **: Cannot activate ECal: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session"
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19:28.28gaminquite handy for all the pim apps to have them displayed on your desktop...
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19:37.16dsilvahow do you get the current CPU clock speed?
19:37.48dsilvalinux-x86 has /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/, but I don't see that in openmoko
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19:40.44morriconedsilva,  /proc/cpuinfo
19:41.11dsilvamorricone: that doesn't seem to show the current cpu frequency
19:42.03berkusand again, not expecting any answers at all: what am I missing here? http://rafb.net/p/qvXOTZ94.html
19:42.53CMtorpor: Did you get what pvanhoof will be working on? :)
19:43.35CMberkus: No idea, never seen that before. Tried asking in #oe?
19:44.57berkusCM: hmm, not yet. will try.
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19:51.32berkus#oe is helpfully silent
19:51.44CMYes, unfortunately
19:52.23CMI sometimes get the feeling that oe isn't so newbie-friendly..
19:53.33woglindecm newbie/user newbie/developer?
19:53.45woglindenewbie/user should never see oe only .ipk
19:53.57CMwoglinde: I was thinking the newbie/user
19:54.22CMBecause setting up oe and using bitbake is a bit intimidating at first
19:54.49woglindenewbie/developer will be/is solved mit meta-toolchain.bb
19:54.55Mekbtw, is it possible to see how much the battery in my neo is charged while it is charging?
19:54.59CMThere is some good install instructions in the wiki, but sometimes it's not enough
19:55.15woglindewhich wiki?
19:55.18woglindeoe or om?
19:55.19CMwoglinde: Yes, I noticed that meta-toolchaing thing, sounds really good
19:55.21CMthe oe
19:55.28u_l-lapapt: lart CM
19:55.28aptwhips out a shotgun, trudges over to CM, and goes postal
19:55.40woglindehm yes we have serval kandidates to improve the documentation
19:55.46CMom too, but that didn't exist when I set up the om build first time
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19:56.25CMwoglinde: I know I've been a lazy ass there too, but I have done some updates to that wiki. Mostly spell fixes and some minor stuff that wasn't completely correct :)
19:58.44CMMek: Do you mean while powered off and charging, or booted up?
19:59.08woglindecm :)
19:59.23MekCM: while booted up
19:59.26CMMek: I think you can cat some sys/*/*/batvolt thing and get an estimate, but I don't think there's any widged saying 60% and charging yet
19:59.31CMbattvolt
19:59.39SpeedEvilapm
19:59.52SpeedEvilbut 50%=5%, 90%=95%
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20:05.54faernWhy is the flashing phase running qemu-system-arm? it waits 300 sec for that process to terminate. but it doesn't (no wonder the images sent to it doesn't exist.)
20:06.45*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu)
20:06.58faernqemu-system-arm is the emulator, right? so why does it try to run it before it creates the bloody images?
20:07.37StylusEater_Workbloody? did you stab it?
20:07.43StylusEater_Work:-)
20:08.06cjb_ieshylock - "if you prick us, do we not bleed?"
20:08.55faern:P
20:09.05CMfaern: I'm not sure, but before open-moko-image built qemu to generate native binary locales for glibc. Don't know if that's still the case, since I have ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in my local.conf
20:09.48CMSaves quite some time too. You can also have something like: GLIBC_GENERATE_LOCALES = "en_US.UTF-8" to just have one locale instead of al
20:09.51CMl
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20:10.42faernshould I add that to my local.conf? is it a way to save just time? or can it be a solution?
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20:11.47faernI have been tinkering with this for some time now. But I can't figure out why it wont build the images
20:12.15faernI get openmoko-sd.image. but not flash, nor the kernel
20:12.34daMaestroah, hello StylusEater_Work
20:13.18CMfaern: It's really weird. I should try to build from scratch again. I've upadted and built all om every day
20:14.18faernCM, I have found people with the same problem. but no one seems to have the answer
20:14.33berkusphew spotted the compile bug: lowlevel_foo was compiled without -mabi=apcs-gnu
20:14.48StylusEater_WorkdaMaestro: hi.  I got a neo a few days ago... it's tasty.
20:14.58daMaestroStylusEater_Work, right on
20:15.21CMberkus: Maybe file that as a bug, or poke XorA|gone about it tomorrow or so
20:15.47berkusCM: well, i'm building latest git with neo patches applied, so anything can go wrong :)
20:16.08CMHehe
20:17.52daMaestrodamn, so it seems the buildhost is down?
20:17.56StylusEater_WorkdaMaestro: update system? ipkg?
20:18.02daMaestroStylusEater_Work, yes
20:18.13daMaestroStylusEater_Work, it's a lot quicker then flashing the device
20:18.26StylusEater_Workyup. I use it on my slug.
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20:18.39daMaestroi have the first shipped uboot, so it doesn't first erase when flashing
20:18.42daMaestroso it's a two step
20:18.57CMdaMaestro: Why not updating?
20:19.07CMuboot I mean
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20:19.18faernCM, one thing that can cause error is that I built the first part with gcc-3.4 & glibc-2.5 and the last part with gcc-3.3 & glibc-2.6.. but if that would cause a fail it shouln't be in the flash, right?
20:19.20CMJust make sure you get a tried and tested revision :)
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20:19.44CMfaern: Hmm.. No, that shouldn't be it
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20:20.12CMfaern: Btw, I had a problem flashing too a while ago, had to install dosfsutils natively on my desktop to get around that
20:20.27faernCM, yes me too
20:20.50faernand i had to link /usr/sbin/mkdosfs to /sbin/mkdosfs
20:20.51CMBut after that I haven't had any issues
20:20.59CMHeh, that too :)
20:21.23StylusEater_WorkdaMaestro: you can upgrade uboot but if you don't have a debug board... unbricking would be hard
20:21.47faernstrange... maybe I should start over clean and all. but the initial build take ages :/
20:22.01CMStylusEater_Work: I don't have a debugboard, but I've flashed 3 u-boots
20:22.21CMUnfortunately, the first one I flashed was a bit broken.. :P
20:22.57StylusEater_Workokie.
20:23.05xzcvczxone of the ones on scaredycats host is b0rked as well it will still boot/updatable but if you try cu -l .... it jsut comes up with jibberish
20:23.33CMxzcvczx: What is the latest "known to work safely" uboot?
20:23.42xzcvczxi am happily running 17th sep
20:23.54xzcvczxdunno if theres a newer one
20:24.34CMI need a later one, oct 19th or so, when Harald fixed the console to be usb as default when you boot with aux pressed
20:24.49xzcvczxoh ok
20:24.53CMBut I haven't heard any reports about a known working one in the last week :)
20:24.55xzcvczxwhat are you running at the moment?
20:24.56CMSo I'll wait
20:25.25CMNot sure, some fairly old one
20:26.07berkushmm.. it built
20:26.33StylusEater_Workpeace out.
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20:26.39StylusEater_Workthx for the battery tip CM.
20:27.01CM:)
20:27.13*** part/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.89)
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20:29.30berkusstate(10) = dfuERROR, status(1) = File is not targeted for use by this device
20:29.32berkushrm
20:29.57daMaestroCM, i just have not really seen a need to risk bricking my device
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20:32.55CMdaMaestro: Fair enough, but at least the one from the 2007.08 august release has that nand erase rootfs thing fixed :)
20:33.09daMaestroyeah, that is the only reason i've even considered
20:33.20daMaestrobut with ipkg "working" i've not had to flash for a while
20:33.31daMaestroCM, is buildhost known to be down?
20:33.44CMYes, every now and then
20:34.11CMNot sure why right now, but openmoko.com was down this morning for maintenace, so maybe the buildhost was next in line :)
20:35.32daMaestroah, ok
20:35.32anrpthe mokoninja shows his face
20:35.33anrp!!
20:35.41berkusnight all
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20:42.46faernaccording to this http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg05859.html my error should have been solved in june.. so now I wonder, why am I getting this.. This is getting on my nerves
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22:12.05faernXorA|gone, yes
22:12.44XorA|gonejust wondering had a wierd message from another dev if anyone was having problems building kernels
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22:25.27CIA-13openmoko: 03andrew * r3276 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/neo1973.c:
22:25.27CIA-13openmoko: Import a basic Neo1973 modem definition for Qtopia "phonesim".
22:25.27CIA-13openmoko: Set initial display resolution to 480x640 px.
22:26.54xzcvczxwith gps how many characters is the position readout
22:29.14CIA-13openmoko: 03andrew * r3277 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/neo1973.xml: Add the forgotten file in svn...
22:29.14SpeedEvilxzcvczx: what do you mean by that?
22:29.33SpeedEvilxzcvczx: to more significant figures than the accuracy if that's what you eamn.
22:30.14*** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2)
22:31.58anrpgenerally its 6
22:32.06anrp2.6 precision in minutes
22:32.19anrpwhich is more than you need as the hardware isn't that accurate
22:32.32anrp... well, unless you pay megabucks for an INS
22:33.09Mekhow accurute in meters is that? :P
22:33.14anrpdepends on latitude
22:33.45xzcvczxif latitude is in new zealand :P
22:33.59anrp1.6667e-08 is the amount of decimal degree resolution
22:34.00SpeedEvilxzcvczx: it's irrelevant
22:34.09anrpwhich is super high ...
22:34.12SpeedEvilxzcvczx: the accuracy is 2-3m typically.
22:34.34SpeedEvilxzcvczx: the readout is way more figures than this
22:34.41anrpindeed
22:34.43xzcvczxis there any way to work it out more accurately if you know your exact height
22:34.48SpeedEvilno
22:34.56SpeedEvilWell - yes.
22:35.07SpeedEvilBut, not with the supplied software.
22:35.11xzcvczxah ok
22:35.42xzcvczxso you would have to see a opensource "daemon" come out for it in which case you could?
22:36.08SpeedEvilTo a smaller extent with the GTA02 hardware than GTA01
22:36.21SpeedEvilwhy do you want accurate position?
22:36.55anrpbasically it doesn't matter ~_~
22:37.10anrpworse case accuracy on the equator with the 2.6 precision is an amazing 1.8mm
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22:37.27SpeedEvilMek: certainly not unfortunately with the hardware in GTA02.
22:37.39anrpif you can resolve that... you're probably affiliated with the military
22:37.51SpeedEvilmeg: with the hardware in GTA01, and complex software - perhaps.
22:38.14SpeedEvil(nobody has written this, and is unlikely to do so it looks like)
22:38.30anrpEKF ftw D:
22:40.33anrpan EKF or related filter with gps and accel as input might (big might) be able to give you better accuracy
22:40.42anrpMEMS accelerometers are so noisy though
22:40.57anrpand a non temperature controlled environment makes it much worse
22:41.15daMaestroare we going to be able to use the GPS soon SpeedEvil ?
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22:43.11SpeedEvildaMaestro: the software works fine.
22:43.22daMaestrobut it's not been released?
22:43.35SpeedEvildaMaestro: to get it released, you need to find the appropriate lawyer, and apply instruments of persuasion.
22:44.06anrpa lart, for instance
22:44.19SpeedEvilNo need to get high tech.
22:44.27anrphehe
22:44.28SpeedEvilA rock, or a board with nails in works fine.
22:44.37anrpthe software exists and is questionably legal to distribute
22:44.55anrphowever if you look hard its findable D:
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22:56.36CIA-13openmoko: 03andrew * r3278 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/neo1973.xml:
22:56.36CIA-13openmoko: Emit cellular result codes according to AT+CRC value.
22:56.37CIA-13openmoko: More TI Calypso compatiblity (AT+CLIP, AT+CFUN, AT+CBC, AT+CNUM).
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