| 00:04.49 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=unkdfnow@dsl-245-135-135.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 00:09.24 | *** part/#openmoko BryceLeo (i=bryce@gateway/tor/x-3e7b7751a56272a8) |
| 00:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@202.74.204.211) |
| 00:12.18 | duffyd | hi does anyone know if the openmoko has a spreadsheeting app? |
| 00:12.36 | gamin | abraxa_: I flashed the lastest build and after "ipkg install gst-plugin-playbin gst-plugin-volume gst-plugin-decodebin" it now starts but |
| 00:13.05 | gamin | when tring to load a playlist an error msg appears: Missing element audio convert |
| 00:13.23 | gamin | "check your gstreamer installation" |
| 00:14.31 | gamin | duffyd: I tried to build gnumeric, but the build failed. didn't look at it though. |
| 00:14.41 | duffyd | gamin: ta |
| 00:14.58 | duffyd | gamin: btw looks like you're trying to get mp3 stuff working? (well a wild guess anyway :) |
| 00:15.28 | gamin | duffyd: well, madplay works, but openmoko-mediaplayer doesn't |
| 00:15.40 | gamin | and xmms doesn't either. missing font. |
| 00:16.01 | duffyd | gamin: what does madplay support? |
| 00:16.01 | gamin | actually xmms works but the gui doesn't appear |
| 00:16.06 | duffyd | k |
| 00:16.07 | gamin | mp3 |
| 00:16.11 | duffyd | cool! |
| 00:16.24 | gamin | but it is command line |
| 00:16.32 | duffyd | need to make the switch |
| 00:16.40 | duffyd | s/utopia/qtopia |
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| 00:23.47 | Kero | ruby + cairo + gtk2 on openmoko: http://chmeee.dyndns.org/om/native_eggclock.png |
| 00:24.09 | Kero | and the packages are hooked into OE, too :) |
| 00:26.19 | ljp | or, rather webkit-gtk |
| 00:26.29 | cesarb | ljp: welcome to the club |
| 00:30.04 | nelson | Kero: fatter hands on the clock. |
| 00:30.19 | *** join/#openmoko j0tt (n=j@unaffiliated/jott) |
| 00:32.09 | berkus | hmm... latest openmoko image doesn't work :( |
| 00:32.48 | Kero | nelson: all choices are open now :) I'm happy I finally got it to behave within OE |
| 00:33.36 | Kero | this particular script is an adaptation I made from another. with the dpi of Neo, you're right, tho. |
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| 00:52.17 | paulproteus | ljp, What's wrong with webkit-gtk? |
| 00:54.52 | ljp | doesnt build in oe |
| 00:55.43 | paulproteus | Ouch. |
| 00:56.05 | ljp | i think the pnly thing that uses it is the rss reader |
| 00:58.59 | paulproteus | duffyd, I'm still using Qtopia, too. |
| 00:59.18 | paulproteus | Is there a way to avoid the battery bug? I seem to run into it every couple of days, which is a major drag. |
| 01:00.10 | duffyd | paulproteus: yeah me too :) |
| 01:06.43 | nelson | battery bug doesn't turn off all hardware? |
| 01:08.09 | ljp | paulproteus: battery bug? |
| 01:09.33 | paulproteus | Well, I find my Neo often refuses to turn on, even when plugged into USB for a day or two. I thought this was the "battery bug" that required taking out the battery for a while. |
| 01:09.43 | paulproteus | "a while" was defined as "10 hours is known to work; other values may work too". |
| 01:10.06 | nelson | sounds like a hard crash to me. |
| 01:10.25 | paulproteus | Well, usually I can get it out of this state by leaving the battery out for a while. |
| 01:10.29 | paulproteus | What do you mean "hard crash"? |
| 01:11.16 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 01:11.56 | nelson | The processor isn't listening to the soft power button anymore. |
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| 01:20.44 | t00na | I was about to ask some questions, but then I saw the topic... |
| 01:21.19 | t00na | I still have some questions, is there a person or wki page that could answer them? |
| 01:21.23 | t00na | s/wki/wiki/ |
| 01:21.37 | t00na | apt: version |
| 01:21.38 | apt | well, version is Kernel: uname -r. Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -1. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_. Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -d |
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| 01:38.41 | aevin | nice. i guess apt is missing some ` ` or is it just being funny? |
| 01:53.51 | Vegar | no, it's telling you how to check versions of packages, kernels, commands, distros, etc. |
| 01:57.44 | paulproteus | nelson, Oh, I guess just pulling out the battery and putting it back in should fix that, then? |
| 02:00.17 | t00na | so is there anyone I could ask or a wiki page I could consult? |
| 02:02.21 | bluelightning | t00na: don't ask to ask, just ask... |
| 02:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 02:02.59 | t00na | the topic says not to ask the questions that I am interested in asking. |
| 02:03.25 | t00na | "Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update, yes, that's the one with WiFi, and no, there's no cam, GPS will be u-blox/Atmel ATR0635 )." |
| 02:04.03 | mjr | ok so if it's something more than the usual stuff, ask |
| 02:04.11 | paulproteus | t00na, Yes, the wiki.openmoko.org page on GTA02 should have info on that. |
| 02:04.33 | t00na | okay. |
| 02:04.41 | t00na | Well I want to know about power management |
| 02:04.55 | bluelightning | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 (redirects to another page, but there is lots of info there) |
| 02:04.59 | t00na | and usability. |
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| 02:05.34 | mjr | t00na, currently there's pretty much neither |
| 02:06.03 | t00na | will it be on the 02? |
| 02:06.20 | mjr | that's not a hardware question, it's a software question |
| 02:06.32 | mjr | well, mostly, but you can have both on the 01 as well |
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| 02:07.08 | t00na | Well I heard that the GTA02 will be the one that's directed towards average users |
| 02:07.10 | nelson | paulproteus: yes, that's why pulling the battery gets you back. |
| 02:07.43 | mjr | t00na, aimed, rather, but still a software question |
| 02:07.57 | SpeedEvil | It's a software fix fundamentally. |
| 02:08.14 | mjr | there's nothing in 01 hw that would make it fundamentally unsuitable for average users |
| 02:08.24 | SpeedEvil | 1. Proper metering of battery life and deciding what to do when it's low. |
| 02:08.40 | SpeedEvil | 2. Power off when below a critical level of charge. |
| 02:09.16 | SpeedEvil | 3. On USB insertion, power back on, see if there is a host there to which we can fast charge from, if yes, do that, if no, go back to sleep and slow charge |
| 02:09.16 | t00na | how long does the battery last when it's fully charged? |
| 02:09.36 | mjr | several hours :] |
| 02:09.51 | SpeedEvil | 3-6 hours fully active, 2 daysish with only modem active doing wake-on-ring |
| 02:10.02 | SpeedEvil | (and that's not setup yet either) |
| 02:10.04 | paulproteus | Wait, it can do sleep now? |
| 02:10.06 | paulproteus | Oh, okay. (-: |
| 02:10.19 | SpeedEvil | The modem can recieve calls with the CPU off. |
| 02:10.28 | SpeedEvil | But it just gives 'engaged' |
| 02:11.06 | aevin | wake-on-ring sounds like a nice feature. |
| 02:11.29 | t00na | 3-6 hours... okay |
| 02:11.52 | SpeedEvil | That's active and doing stuff. |
| 02:12.03 | SpeedEvil | Normally, it'll be suspended more than that. |
| 02:12.08 | t00na | right. |
| 02:12.09 | aevin | SpeedEvil: that's with BT ? |
| 02:12.20 | SpeedEvil | 1/7 possible power managment techniques are implemented. |
| 02:12.28 | t00na | so When will the software be fully usable? |
| 02:12.42 | mjr | when it will |
| 02:12.46 | SpeedEvil | aevin: We can't wake on BT - but BT does not add significantly. |
| 02:12.59 | SpeedEvil | t00na: I would personally be surprised if it's before Feb. |
| 02:13.17 | aevin | SpeedEvil: i was thinking of that 3-6 hrs battery estimate (being active and "doing stuff") |
| 02:13.20 | t00na | well... gives me time to save my money :) |
| 02:13.38 | aevin | BT can be quite power consuming (so will wifi on GTA02 be) |
| 02:13.42 | SpeedEvil | aevin: 3h would be playing video, ... |
| 02:13.43 | mwester | Feb? You are an optimistic one. |
| 02:13.47 | aevin | SpeedEvil: okay. |
| 02:14.03 | mwester | I say June, and even then only common stuff will truely be stable. |
| 02:14.13 | SpeedEvil | Hard to call. |
| 02:14.38 | t00na | SpeedEvil: Can it be used as a phone right now? |
| 02:14.41 | mwester | Not really. We have three months of history to examine. |
| 02:14.49 | aevin | we better give our Neos some ultra low power bluetooth (formerly known as wibree) modifications by time, when the first chips get out. |
| 02:15.48 | SpeedEvil | t00na: yes - with some software versions. Mostly. |
| 02:16.01 | SpeedEvil | t00na: A nokia 1100 beats it hands-down as a phone at the moment. |
| 02:16.46 | t00na | Do the Neos have Ruby? |
| 02:16.53 | t00na | I know they have Python... |
| 02:17.03 | aevin | t00na: you can add anything you like on it. |
| 02:17.22 | t00na | how difficult would it be to port Ruby to it? |
| 02:17.55 | SpeedEvil | You don't really port stuff. |
| 02:18.14 | SpeedEvil | It's basically a desktop linux box that nobodys told it it's a phone |
| 02:18.29 | SpeedEvil | You just find stuff small enough to install, and compile it. |
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| 02:19.56 | t00na | Oh. |
| 02:21.45 | mjr | a whole lot of packages are also precompiled and available, which is nice |
| 02:22.33 | mjr | just installed x11vnc today to be able to project the neo screen through a laptop as a presentation aid |
| 02:26.12 | t00na | what's been done with the GPS? |
| 02:26.26 | t00na | any wicked-cool apps for that yet? |
| 02:27.08 | mjr | not really, since the driver isn't yet even (legally) available |
| 02:28.41 | mjr | and well, generally speaking, at this point there are pretty much no "wicked cool" apps |
| 02:29.05 | nelson | Of course, without a GPS receiver .... |
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| 03:01.08 | t00na | thanks for answering my questions |
| 03:01.13 | t00na | bye! |
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| 07:23.48 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:38.22 | Orzech_ | Hi girls and guys! ;) |
| 07:38.50 | Orzech_ | I've finally managed to compile build devel image (ofcourse only after updating it) |
| 07:39.37 | Orzech_ | now I cannot start qemu; when I type make wemu-local i get error described on http://www.pastebin.ca/744252 . Please help me. :) |
| 07:40.53 | Orzech_ | CM: so, I did successful compile by not touching anything by updating sources |
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| 07:58.13 | mickey|tw | morning |
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| 07:58.38 | guaqua | good morning |
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| 08:07.56 | Orzech_ | mickey|tw: maybe you could help with: http://www.pastebin.ca/744252 ? (problem with 'make qemu-local') |
| 08:13.03 | CM | Orzech_: Maybe that's a problem with the rootfs and kernel not being in the path that the makefile expects. |
| 08:13.13 | CM | Orzech_: Ask rwhitby about it if he's around |
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| 08:18.28 | ScaredyCat | did you sort out your mkfs.jffs error Orzech_ ? |
| 08:18.44 | CM | Hmm.. I tried to build qemu and I get some "mtdparts not set" warning |
| 08:18.55 | CM | So there's some dependancy missing |
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| 08:25.10 | Orzech_ | CM: thx |
| 08:27.07 | Orzech_ | ScaredyCat: what do you mean? |
| 08:27.39 | ScaredyCat | didn't you have a problem earlier... with mkfs.jffs during a build |
| 08:27.51 | mickey|tw | Orzech_: there's little point of pasting localized builds |
| 08:27.58 | Orzech_ | well, I got message, that image was build successfully |
| 08:27.58 | mickey|tw | LC_ALL=C LANG=C |
| 08:28.28 | Orzech_ | well, I translated most important messages into English, but you're right |
| 08:28.38 | Orzech_ | will change it to english ;) |
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| 08:39.40 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: I was wondering, is there a quick howto for setting up a qtopia build env for the neo? |
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| 08:43.31 | Orzech_ | mickey|tw: english version here: http://www.pastebin.ca/744279 (it was enough to set LC_MESSAGES to en_US) |
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| 08:44.27 | Orzech_ | I'll be back soon |
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| 08:59.28 | ScaredyCat | starts uploading images... |
| 09:01.08 | Orzech_ | ScaredyCat: grepping for error from make openmoko-devel-image did not find any line |
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| 09:04.45 | xx14 | hello, my new isn't starting up at all, any hints? |
| 09:04.47 | ScaredyCat | thought you had a problem last night |
| 09:04.57 | xx14 | neo |
| 09:04.58 | ScaredyCat | your new whaT? |
| 09:05.00 | ScaredyCat | ahh |
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| 09:05.23 | ScaredyCat | plug it into usb port , leave it powered off but plugged in for an hour at least |
| 09:06.33 | xx14 | hmm i tihnk i've done that yesterday, for more then an hour... |
| 09:06.36 | SpeedEvil | Unplug battery first for at least 5 min |
| 09:06.48 | SpeedEvil | all stuff in the phone may not be off. |
| 09:07.00 | SpeedEvil | hence drawing what power is available to charge to power it |
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| 09:07.36 | SpeedEvil | Most phones boot after 5 min off, 1h on |
| 09:08.08 | xx14 | so, battery out for 5 min, then charge for an hour |
| 09:08.13 | SpeedEvil | Basically, yes. |
| 09:08.27 | SpeedEvil | See [[Damn I've forgotten the pagename on the wiki |
| 09:08.33 | xx14 | okie, i'll try that, what is causing this? |
| 09:08.47 | SpeedEvil | It's basically that power managment is almost unimplemented |
| 09:08.51 | xx14 | i tried Neo FAQ, but it's not there |
| 09:09.17 | SpeedEvil | Look at the page SH1 |
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| 09:09.35 | xx14 | the gui offers 'full pm' option, after that, the neo doesn't wake up |
| 09:09.35 | SpeedEvil | I think there is a link from there. |
| 09:10.49 | xx14 | yep, found it |
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| 09:11.29 | PBeck | hi |
| 09:11.46 | PBeck | hi |
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| 09:19.32 | ScaredyCat | builds some other apps... |
| 09:23.57 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=StealthC@user-544167cd.l6.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 09:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko cb30 (n=unkdfnow@dsl-245-133-06.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 09:27.27 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-146-247.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:27.59 | ScaredyCat | builds new package lists and uploads them... |
| 09:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@ap164118.wlan.jku.at) |
| 09:39.38 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: is your message on buildhost.auto...it still correct about 3rd sep being best/ |
| 09:39.39 | xzcvczx | ? |
| 09:40.03 | ewon | some friends of mine just broke a world record |
| 09:40.10 | ewon | for the longest archery training session |
| 09:40.14 | ewon | 31 hours of non-stop shooting |
| 09:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko x42 (n=x42@dslb-084-063-103-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:40.41 | ScaredyCat | well, that was the best according to CM ... it might be good to try a newer one, but the problems with the top bar dying started after that image. |
| 09:40.54 | ScaredyCat | has built images and packages and uploaded them all... |
| 09:41.04 | ScaredyCat | ewon: yeah, dangerous weapon and tiredness, always good bedfellows |
| 09:41.05 | xzcvczx | ah ok |
| 09:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko terracon (n=greisky@CPE0050da822b70-CM0012254076d6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 09:41.59 | ewon | ScaredyCat: yeah :) |
| 09:42.32 | xzcvczx | i think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74zhNxgFkTQ# that world record is more spectacular |
| 09:53.40 | CIA-29 | openmoko: 03werner * r3231 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/envedit.pl: |
| 09:53.40 | CIA-29 | openmoko: envedit.pl (set): return 1 on success |
| 09:53.40 | CIA-29 | openmoko: envedit.pl: invoke "set" with $ARGV[0], not $_ |
| 09:55.33 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 10:04.49 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@host3-159-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:04.59 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-113-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@lpzg-4db32b5a.pool.einsundeins.de) |
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| 10:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko Orzech_ (n=Orzech@088156093250.wro.vectranet.pl) |
| 10:20.36 | CM | ScaredyCat: The images from Oct 17 are also good |
| 10:22.11 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 10:22.40 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@port-87-234-154-194.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:23.44 | CM | xzcvczx: That looked pretty dangerous too |
| 10:27.42 | *** join/#openmoko x42 (n=x42@dslb-084-063-103-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:29.08 | mickey|tw | ~seen magon |
| 10:29.10 | apt | magon is currently on #openmoko (1h 17m 49s), last said: ':-)'. |
| 10:31.00 | Magon | why? |
| 10:31.17 | mickey|tw | :) |
| 10:31.21 | mickey|tw | we just talked about you |
| 10:31.25 | Magon | me? |
| 10:31.25 | mickey|tw | nevermind |
| 10:32.18 | Magon | i am going out..but if you have something you have to say me just PM me :_) |
| 10:32.23 | mickey|tw | right |
| 10:34.02 | Magon | but i cannot figure out why talking about me..... |
| 10:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko jean_n__ (n=mdesign@chello212186106136.11.vie.surfer.at) |
| 10:36.24 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 10:36.54 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57AD93E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:42.54 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 10:46.35 | *** join/#openmoko mb_ (n=mb@host68-137-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:47.03 | mb_ | Hi; how to put openmoko on htc tytn II (kaiser)? |
| 10:47.46 | CM | mb_: Does the htc tytn II run linux? |
| 10:48.28 | mb_ | CM: hi man; I don't know this...how can know that? |
| 10:49.03 | CM | Well, probably it's better to ask around in #oe, openembedded |
| 10:49.22 | mb_ | I've traied CM, but they said to me to enter here |
| 10:49.27 | CM | Ah, ok |
| 10:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 10:49.38 | CM | Hmm.. I don't know what kind of mobile that is |
| 10:49.45 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__35 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-14d007687ebcbfd2) |
| 10:50.00 | CM | And if it doesn't boot a linux kernel you'll have a difficult time to get openmoko to run on it |
| 10:50.40 | mb_ | Understood...but, how could I know if linux kernel works on kaiser? |
| 10:50.57 | mb_ | I didn't found anything around the net |
| 10:51.12 | CM | Then it's very unlikely you'll get OpenMoko to run |
| 10:51.29 | CM | Unless you're a real hacker yourself and gets it done ;) |
| 10:51.30 | *** join/#openmoko hs1 (n=hardskin@host84-163-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:52.26 | mb_ | yeah man, but I need an input: how to boot kernel on kaiser? I need image? what? |
| 10:52.42 | CM | I don't know either. |
| 10:52.51 | CM | What you have to know is how the bootloader on that phone works |
| 10:53.14 | CM | What partition or flash addres it points to, how to boot from a mmc or sd card and so on |
| 10:53.32 | CM | You'll have to ask someone who know the specifics of the htc kaiser |
| 10:53.58 | mb_ | owkee...thanks man, your words could be the right input :) tanks* |
| 10:54.03 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@A-18-141.cust.iol.ie) |
| 10:54.08 | CM | mb_: Good luck |
| 10:54.19 | CM | The more phones that can run OpenMoko the better :) |
| 10:54.35 | *** join/#openmoko Lunpa (n=lunpa@rch85-2-88-163-221-31.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:54.48 | mb_ | :°D thanks, see u |
| 11:03.12 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: ping |
| 11:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@dhcp-077-251-029-148.chello.nl) |
| 11:05.59 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 11:06.09 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A7440.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 11:10.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 951 has been created by <alphaone> |
| 11:10.02 | cdbot2 | * * Adding an empty contact should not be possible |
| 11:10.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=951 |
| 11:17.23 | *** join/#openmoko x42 (n=x42@dslb-084-063-103-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:17.53 | abraxa_ | mickey|away: pong |
| 11:19.20 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw - trying to take over the channel with your presence, hm? ;) |
| 11:20.44 | cb30 | ScaredyCat, i wouldn't do that if i were you, might fill up your rootfs :p |
| 11:22.26 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: nah |
| 11:23.06 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: fresh image i get your "can't install gstreamer" message, however i believe all dependencies are installed. how can i check what exactly is missing? |
| 11:23.50 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw: Some gst elements are missing in /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10 like decodebin, playbin and volume |
| 11:24.06 | abraxa_ | Was going to harass XorA|gone about it |
| 11:24.10 | Orzech_ | ok, so the reason for not being able to make qemu is the lack of images |
| 11:24.31 | Orzech_ | but how is it possible if I do not get any error during building devel image? |
| 11:25.32 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw|meetin: Maybe it would be a good idea to have the dependencies in openmoko-mediaplayer2.bb as well |
| 11:29.39 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@212-248.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 11:35.05 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-44-58.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:37.43 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 11:37.50 | zecke | bluelightning: hey |
| 11:39.24 | bluelightning | hi zecke |
| 11:40.15 | abraxa_ | zecke: Do you already have plans/ideas/code for the feed reader's feed configuration through GConf? |
| 11:40.35 | zecke | abraxa_: ideas yes. Using the GConf bridge from o-hand, plans no... |
| 11:42.58 | abraxa_ | zecke: Ah okay - it seems this feature would be nice to have soon but I don't want to cook up a patch and possibly interfere with your plans/ideas, hence my question |
| 11:43.08 | zecke | abraxa_: go ahead! |
| 11:43.59 | abraxa_ | zecke: Okay - can you give me a pointer to the o-hand brige then so I can utilize it? I would've just used the GConf client directly |
| 11:44.28 | zecke | abraxa_: http://projects.o-hand.com/libgconf-bridge |
| 11:44.37 | abraxa_ | Danke :) |
| 11:44.44 | zecke | abraxa_: no idea if one can save a whole GtkListStore though |
| 11:45.42 | abraxa_ | I'll check it out |
| 11:45.49 | zecke | a quick look at the source indicates it can |
| 11:46.22 | abraxa_ | Coolies |
| 11:46.48 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 11:47.57 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw|meetin: Turns out that gst-plugin-playbin isn't getting installed anymore even if gst-plugins-base is. Installing it via ipkg solves the issue |
| 11:49.08 | abraxa_ | (same goes for gst-plugin-decodebin and gst-plugin-volume) |
| 11:49.28 | mickey|tw|meetin | hmm |
| 11:49.35 | mickey|tw|meetin | installed playbin,decodebin,volume |
| 11:49.45 | mickey|tw|meetin | still "no decoder found -- internal data flow error" |
| 11:50.12 | abraxa_ | Can I see the contents of /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10? |
| 11:51.20 | mickey|tw | http://pastebin.ca/744361 |
| 11:52.45 | xzcvczx | mickey|tw: purely a question(not hassling in any way and not to be taken as such) hows the gpsd coming along and any ballpark of a release date? |
| 11:53.23 | abraxa_ | mickey|away: Only ones I see that could possibly be missing are gst-plugin-audioconvert and gst-plugin-audioresample |
| 11:53.34 | abraxa_ | Though obviously we wouldn't want to use them :) |
| 11:53.55 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: right. maybe i have local changes here in my tree |
| 11:54.07 | mickey|tw | xzcvczx: pending legal department writing an EULA |
| 11:54.21 | mickey|tw | could take days or years |
| 11:54.26 | mickey|tw | no idea, frankly |
| 11:54.37 | xzcvczx | mickey|tw: thanks.... dang lawyers :P |
| 11:55.34 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@219-89-45-166.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:57.04 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw: Any idea why gst-plugins-base broke for people now? (you're not the only one) |
| 11:57.17 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@219-89-45-166.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:57.27 | abraxa_ | If not I'll just harass XorA about it ;) |
| 11:57.55 | ewon | can one burn a bootlable cd imsage onto a dvd? |
| 11:58.32 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: no idea offhand |
| 11:58.38 | xzcvczx | ewon: yup |
| 11:58.46 | abraxa_ | Okay, I'll take care of it |
| 11:58.53 | ewon | excellent |
| 11:58.58 | ewon | thanks |
| 12:02.26 | mickey|tw | a typo :D |
| 12:02.29 | mickey|tw | REPENDS vs. RDEPENDS |
| 12:02.31 | mickey|tw | tssss |
| 12:06.59 | Orzech_ | ok haxors, thanks for help, maybe another update will help a bit :/ |
| 12:07.02 | Orzech_ | Peace. |
| 12:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A55C5F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:07.22 | ScaredyCat | Peas |
| 12:09.42 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 12:11.11 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@p5485D2D3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:14.51 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mb90d.m.pppool.de) |
| 12:17.41 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw: Awesome, thanks :) |
| 12:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@59.93.211.23) |
| 12:21.13 | mickey|tw | np |
| 12:21.22 | mickey|tw | didn't bother to check who broke it though |
| 12:23.02 | zecke | mickey|tw: so you didn't do a daggy fix? |
| 12:23.57 | ScaredyCat | svn blame |
| 12:23.58 | ScaredyCat | !!1 |
| 12:25.35 | mickey|tw | mtn blame |
| 12:25.37 | mickey|tw | command not found |
| 12:25.47 | zecke | annotate (and wait) ;) |
| 12:25.51 | ScaredyCat | stupis mtn |
| 12:25.57 | ScaredyCat | stupid |
| 12:26.23 | zecke | ScaredyCat: don't talk about things you don't understand. |
| 12:26.36 | ScaredyCat | if you put the mtn changes into svn ... then it would work |
| 12:28.08 | ScaredyCat | I can talk about whatever i like, |
| 12:28.33 | ScaredyCat | if mtn doesn;t have the equivalent of blame then it's pretty stupid |
| 12:29.06 | zecke | wow, he is the first guy to enter my ignore list twice ;) |
| 12:29.21 | ScaredyCat | good.. keep me there |
| 12:31.04 | ScaredyCat | did I hear somthing about tinymail the other day mickey|tw ? |
| 12:31.04 | mickey|tw | ~blame koen for tyos |
| 12:31.05 | apt | ACTION blames hs1 and perhaps koen for tyos and all the evil in the world |
| 12:31.06 | mickey|tw | typos, even |
| 12:31.14 | alphaone | ScaredyCat: blame and annotate are equivalent in svn |
| 12:31.29 | alphaone | as is praise |
| 12:31.31 | mickey|tw | ScaredyCat: yeah. very likely |
| 12:31.44 | ScaredyCat | k, ta. alphaone.. |
| 12:32.01 | ScaredyCat | good stuff mickey|tw seems like a good bet :D |
| 12:32.27 | ScaredyCat | sorry, you mean equiv in svn and mtn ? |
| 12:32.37 | *** join/#openmoko Robwoerle (n=bob@X0826.x.pppool.de) |
| 12:32.53 | alphaone | mtn annotate does what svn {annotate,praise,blame} does |
| 12:32.59 | ScaredyCat | k, ta |
| 12:34.08 | ScaredyCat | the tinymail website is a little weird though :P |
| 12:43.59 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:49.35 | *** join/#openmoko x42 (n=x42@dslb-084-063-103-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:52.34 | ScaredyCat | yoink! that boot time is a lil slow :/ |
| 13:10.06 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@61.173.119.208) |
| 13:10.09 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br) |
| 13:17.07 | xx14 | ScaredyCat: been charging for 3 hours or so, still no hint of life |
| 13:18.52 | SpeedEvil | XXLT: have you been trying it? |
| 13:18.55 | SpeedEvil | xx14: |
| 13:20.16 | *** part/#openmoko x42 (n=x42@dslb-084-063-103-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:21.07 | xx14 | no, just now for the fisrt time in 3 hours |
| 13:22.35 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@189.70.209.253) |
| 13:22.57 | xx14 | cable can't be bad, i've been playing netradio on it whole day yesterday |
| 13:23.52 | SpeedEvil | xx14: did you pull the battery first? |
| 13:25.02 | xx14 | yep... let it sit like that for 10 min |
| 13:26.10 | *** join/#openmoko jott (n=j@unaffiliated/jott) |
| 13:27.02 | xx14 | i could measure voltage on the battery to see if it's completely empty... |
| 13:27.41 | SpeedEvil | Probably not a bad plan. |
| 13:27.42 | cb22 | wasn't someone here working on getting the neo to charge with >40ma over usb? |
| 13:27.53 | SpeedEvil | cb22: it's complex |
| 13:28.11 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: to do it right at least. |
| 13:28.20 | cb22 | premature tabbing again? |
| 13:29.08 | SpeedEvil | Not looking at the screen while tabbing. |
| 13:30.01 | xx14 | SpeedEvil: 3.8v what's the nominal? |
| 13:30.15 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@d3-128.dip.axsp.de) |
| 13:30.44 | SpeedEvil | 3.8V is about 20% charge |
| 13:30.48 | SpeedEvil | maybe 30% |
| 13:30.54 | SpeedEvil | Should boot absolutely fine. |
| 13:30.58 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 13:31.04 | xx14 | ;( |
| 13:31.08 | SpeedEvil | You haven't been flashing wierd stuff to it? |
| 13:31.40 | *** join/#openmoko nasum (n=nasum@c-76-103-47-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 13:32.17 | xx14 | nop |
| 13:32.40 | SpeedEvil | You sure it's 3.9, not 2.9? 2.9 might be marginal |
| 13:33.01 | xx14 | i only flashed it once, in the very beginning... after that only ipkg |
| 13:34.11 | xx14 | it's 3.8 with no load |
| 13:34.22 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 13:35.57 | CM | Could a sim or memory card placed a bit wrong cause it to not start? |
| 13:35.58 | xx14 | so what are my options now? Find somebody with a devkit in the vicinity? |
| 13:36.21 | SpeedEvil | xx14: that's a goo thought CM. I'd try reseating the SIM and microSD |
| 13:36.50 | xx14 | resetting? you mean to pull them out? |
| 13:36.52 | SpeedEvil | Though I wouldn't have thought it'd do that. |
| 13:36.57 | SpeedEvil | reseating |
| 13:37.01 | CM | Just know that my SE W610 refused to power on for a while, but after taking out and putting back the sim it worked.. |
| 13:37.01 | SpeedEvil | to remove and replace them. |
| 13:38.32 | xx14 | pulled both cards out - nada |
| 13:38.53 | CM | :( |
| 13:41.54 | xx14 | put them back in - no change |
| 13:43.25 | xx14 | i don't suppose there is any kind of factory reset? |
| 13:43.46 | CM | Don't know of any when you don't even get into uboot |
| 13:43.51 | CM | Maybe the display is broken? |
| 13:44.10 | CM | That would be really difficult to tell.. |
| 13:44.15 | xx14 | thought about it, but it doesn't give a buzz, and no sound... |
| 13:44.26 | CM | It doesn't for me either |
| 13:44.33 | *** join/#openmoko ammo12 (n=alex@adsl-142.198.166.194.arpa.as1901.net) |
| 13:44.42 | CM | And there's no led on the gta01's |
| 13:44.49 | SpeedEvil | There are three. |
| 13:44.52 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 13:45.00 | CM | SpeedEvil: Inside? |
| 13:45.01 | SpeedEvil | But, only in the backlight. |
| 13:45.14 | xx14 | for me it always spun the the vibro for a short moment on bootup |
| 13:45.19 | CM | I was thinking of the leds in the buttons that gta02 will have |
| 13:45.23 | SpeedEvil | xx1 |
| 13:45.25 | SpeedEvil | me too |
| 13:45.34 | CM | Hmm.. Maybe it does, haven't thought about it |
| 13:45.46 | CM | I rarely reboot anyway since that usually fails for me :P |
| 13:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko Robwoerle (n=bob@X0826.x.pppool.de) |
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| 13:50.48 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 14:01.28 | SpeedEvil | xx14: what I'd do is try leaving the battery out for 12h |
| 14:02.37 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.139) |
| 14:03.04 | xx14 | There are some caps in there? |
| 14:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:04.57 | ScaredyCat | gah ... I guess I might as well bit the bullet and learn some python .. :/ |
| 14:04.58 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:06.49 | xx14 | after python, it's quite hard to go back to compiled languages ;) |
| 14:06.56 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 14:07.09 | ScaredyCat | I'm trying not to learn it, that and ruby... |
| 14:07.15 | CM | Why? |
| 14:07.23 | CM | I'm trying to pick up as many languages as I can |
| 14:07.37 | ScaredyCat | I'm too old to be learning every language... |
| 14:07.49 | CM | Guess I was one of the few who actually liked ML in school :D |
| 14:08.46 | CM | Also, you can see in an instant if there's some old c coder who's written a piece of java code |
| 14:09.03 | CM | It's one class, 3 methods or so, and each 5000 lines long |
| 14:09.49 | ScaredyCat | hehe |
| 14:10.33 | xx14 | after things like dictionaries, and the string handling and sets, going back to c++ is just a drag for me |
| 14:11.15 | CM | xx14: What about java or C#? |
| 14:13.29 | xx14 | hmm only did enough java to pass some basic programming course in school, didn't like it very much then, hadn't had any experience since... so i can't tell |
| 14:14.31 | CM | I'm a bit curious about vala, that could be something worth trying more |
| 14:15.06 | *** join/#openmoko meus (n=bjartka@kremt.pvv.ntnu.no) |
| 14:16.02 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 14:16.11 | xx14 | when i started python, i thought it was a toy for scriptkiddies, but in the end i found it to be very nice |
| 14:17.06 | CM | I've only played around writing some web proxy and some load balancing prototypes in it, but it feels nice :) |
| 14:19.02 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 14:19.17 | xx14 | it's good for just about everything, except maybe lowlevel graphics primitives ;) especially on an underpowered device |
| 14:26.26 | *** join/#openmoko aevin (n=brootvor@unaffiliated/aevin) |
| 14:32.26 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:36.40 | ScaredyCat | mnneeehh!!1 |
| 14:37.09 | Kliment | hehe got your attention |
| 14:37.32 | Kliment | actually I wanted to ask how you set up your qtopis buildenv |
| 14:37.37 | Kliment | qtopia* |
| 14:37.59 | Kliment | I can't seem to find an instruction anywhere |
| 14:40.56 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: can you help? |
| 14:41.46 | ScaredyCat | k, sorry for the delay, kde-window-decorator died on me :( - thankfully dircproxy to the rescue! |
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| 14:42.15 | ScaredyCat | Kliment: are you trying to use the .bb file ? |
| 14:43.01 | CM | ScaredyCat: Maing the baby burp? :P |
| 14:43.08 | CM | *making |
| 14:43.09 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: I'm starting from scratch here |
| 14:43.25 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: I have ubuntu |
| 14:43.41 | mickey|tw | *burp* |
| 14:43.47 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: I don't want to build the entire system if at all possible, I can't spare more than 3 or 4 GB |
| 14:44.17 | ScaredyCat | I wont hold the fact that you have ubuntu against you ;( |
| 14:44.20 | ScaredyCat | ;) even |
| 14:44.36 | Kliment | heh |
| 14:44.48 | mwester | Greetings and Salutations |
| 14:45.13 | ScaredyCat | basically, you need to setup a local overlay - then you can put stuff that you want to build in that. |
| 14:45.47 | Kliment | do I need to do the full system build for that or can I do an overlay by itself? |
| 14:46.13 | Kliment | I'd want to build qtopia and modify some things, and also add qt apps |
| 14:46.41 | ScaredyCat | well, you could build the qtopia-phone part on its own but I don;t know how much extra it would bdeped on, you wouldn;t use the oe method |
| 14:46.47 | loufoque | KDE? Qtopia? why are people talking about such evil things? |
| 14:46.55 | mwester | Re: gllin and the lawyers: lawyers are just like arcade games -- openmoko needs to keep feeding them coins and banging on them until the EULA pops out. |
| 14:47.06 | mickey|tw | loufoque: there's been a renewed interest in qtopia thanks to the Neo port |
| 14:47.09 | CM | mwester: Hehe |
| 14:47.10 | ScaredyCat | you'd use the arm complier + the qtopia snapshots./ |
| 14:47.25 | Kliment | ok, so I get those from? |
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| 14:47.39 | ScaredyCat | ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/ |
| 14:47.48 | ScaredyCat | ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/ |
| 14:47.51 | Kliment | loufoque: some people feel it's the easiest platform to code on |
| 14:47.54 | loufoque | mickey|away: is it still better than openmoko? |
| 14:48.27 | ScaredyCat | loufoque: kde + compiz (shock horror) on my laptop |
| 14:49.14 | ScaredyCat | compiz, when you know that non-wobbly windows just don't feel right ;) |
| 14:49.26 | Kliment | I used to use compiz |
| 14:49.38 | loufoque | I used to leave it enabeld with all effects disabled |
| 14:49.38 | Kliment | turned out too problematic |
| 14:50.01 | Kliment | it made my laptop eat 20min more battery |
| 14:50.10 | ScaredyCat | well, it's compiz-fusion now, and it seems a lot better, just occasionally flips out... |
| 14:50.23 | ScaredyCat | were you using a 3d card or was the processor trying to do it all ? |
| 14:50.34 | Kliment | 3d card |
| 14:50.40 | mwester | hehe - my father-in-law was ranting about poor quality products the other day; I showed him my wobbly windows and told him that even software didn't have quality like they did in the old days... :D |
| 14:50.44 | Kliment | it was just the vsync that was doing it |
| 14:50.46 | ScaredyCat | I only have an Intel 945GM in this one -works fine |
| 14:50.56 | Kliment | oh it works perfectly |
| 14:51.00 | Kliment | just eats my battery |
| 14:51.03 | ScaredyCat | lol mwester |
| 14:51.44 | ScaredyCat | Kliment: you need a portable power supply :) |
| 14:51.50 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: okay, I fetch the snapshot and what else |
| 14:51.53 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: sdk? |
| 14:51.58 | ScaredyCat | yeah.. |
| 14:52.02 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: desktop? |
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| 14:52.33 | CM | Compiz was his thesis work, too bad I missed his presentation |
| 14:52.37 | ScaredyCat | he was in your class? |
| 14:52.41 | CM | Yes |
| 14:52.45 | CM | Some of them |
| 14:52.55 | ScaredyCat | you skipped most ? :P |
| 14:53.09 | CM | Hehe, I studied both physics and computer science at the same time |
| 14:53.20 | mickey|tw | loufoque: it's different. better depends on your comparison factors |
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| 14:54.18 | mickey|tw | qualifications are overrated |
| 14:54.22 | CM | Sure is |
| 14:54.28 | CM | It's what you do that matters |
| 14:54.37 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: do you run ubuntu or debian? |
| 14:54.55 | loufoque | mickey|away: is openmoko feature complute? |
| 14:55.02 | ScaredyCat | Kliment: SuSe |
| 14:55.08 | Kliment | loufoque: no |
| 14:55.13 | CM | loufoque: I don't think it ever will be ;) |
| 14:55.25 | ScaredyCat | right, quality time with SWMBO before my long drive .... |
| 14:55.26 | ScaredyCat | bbl |
| 14:55.27 | loufoque | I mean, the fondation libraries |
| 14:55.29 | Kliment | ScaredyCat: any idea how to set the sdk up on ubuntu? |
| 14:55.51 | mickey|tw | loufoque: no. still a _very_ long way to go and rumours have it we might change the way |
| 14:55.57 | Kliment | looks like qtopia only believes in rpms |
| 14:56.17 | loufoque | mickey|away: change it how? |
| 14:56.26 | mickey|tw | loufoque: different goals |
| 14:56.31 | mickey|tw | dunno, all rumours |
| 14:56.35 | mickey|tw | know more next week |
| 14:56.57 | Kliment | wait, change what? |
| 14:57.57 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: shouldn't GST_DEBUG=something openmoko-mediaplayer give debug output for gst? |
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| 14:59.08 | CM | mickey|tw: Did you see http://www.advogato.org/person/ensonic/diary/70.html |
| 15:01.14 | abraxa_ | mickey|away: It does - "GST_DEBUG=3 openmoko-mediaplayer" |
| 15:01.16 | mickey|tw | ya, pretty coool |
| 15:01.40 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: k, will build an update image and try again anyways. |
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| 15:02.04 | abraxa_ | Sure thing :) |
| 15:03.22 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw: As you're working on that... mind bumping the sane_srcrevs for openmoko-mediaplayer2 and openmoko-theme-standard to recent revisions? |
| 15:03.43 | mickey|tw | which are? (i'm building with moko-autorev personally) |
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| 15:03.52 | abraxa_ | I am, too ;) |
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| 15:06.39 | abraxa_ | mediaplayer2: 3230 / theme-standard2: 3210 |
| 15:07.40 | mickey|tw | pushign... |
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| 15:08.11 | abraxa_ | Yay, thanks! |
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| 15:10.18 | edistar | how is the gsm work going on? |
| 15:10.41 | edistar | and what will the wifi chip in GTA02 be? anything like atheros? |
| 15:11.14 | Maledictus | atheros |
| 15:11.49 | edistar | Maledictus: thx |
| 15:12.17 | mickey|tw | atheros 6k |
| 15:13.29 | edistar | thanks |
| 15:14.41 | mwester | edistar: I don't think there has been much progress on gsm; I get the feeling that the communiity awaits some guidance on what to do. (i.e. there's little point in trying to track down and patch issues if gsmd will be scrapped and rewritten entirely, for exazmple) |
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| 15:14.56 | mwester | er, example even. |
| 15:17.11 | edistar | mwester: I thought maybe the core team would be working on gsm quite hard, as it seems to me that gsm is the most important part of a phone... ;) |
| 15:17.59 | mwester | It certainly is a foundation component, but there are other parts that also are mandatory - such as power management |
| 15:19.14 | edistar | you have a point.. |
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| 15:20.49 | buz | without power management you cant even use it as pda |
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| 15:27.36 | torpor | anyone here had some experience with the debug board? |
| 15:28.16 | CM | No, no one at all... :P |
| 15:28.58 | torpor | we're trying to 'revive' a dead neo, but it could be that the neo is dead because of the battery problem |
| 15:29.59 | CM | Tried having the battery out for 10 minutes, then put it back in and wait 1h? |
| 15:30.55 | torpor | the question i have is do we have to see some sort of activity on the screen before we can reliably use the debug board? |
| 15:30.57 | abraxa_ | CM: You mean waiting 1h while loading it? |
| 15:31.47 | CM | abraxa_: Yes |
| 15:31.53 | CM | Or no.. |
| 15:32.01 | CM | I mean I emptied my battery totaly one time |
| 15:32.19 | CM | And taking it out for 10 min, then putting it back in and let it charge on usb for 1h |
| 15:32.24 | CM | got it back to life |
| 15:32.30 | CM | Enought to boot, and let it fast-charge |
| 15:32.52 | abraxa_ | Just making sure torpor wouldn't just put it back in and let it sit there :) |
| 15:33.11 | torpor | no i know that problem .. |
| 15:33.38 | CM | xx14 also had trouble getting his neo to power on |
| 15:34.16 | abraxa_ | torpor: The CPU needs to be running to use the debug board - which happens around 2.8V if I remember correctly - at what voltage the backlight turns on I have no idea, however |
| 15:34.27 | torpor | i always leave my neo battery in and am quite lazy about it, have gotten used to just waiting an hour before i want to use it again |
| 15:34.35 | torpor | i surely wish the power management issue would get some priority though. |
| 15:34.55 | torpor | abraxa_: thanks for the details, we'll give our neo's some time to charge and then give it a whirl .. |
| 15:35.57 | mickey|tw | someone need to write the missing downclocking bits |
| 15:36.08 | mickey|tw | and the gmsd-resume support |
| 15:36.19 | mickey|tw | then it should be quite reasonable |
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| 15:48.27 | mwester | mickey||tw: ignorance has never stopped me before; I'm willing to work on the power management if someone can offer some direction/advice/pointers on what to do |
| 15:48.33 | mwester | :) |
| 15:49.27 | CM | ~lart cb22 |
| 15:49.27 | apt | hauls cb22 up by the scruff of the neck and spanks him until he waddles |
| 15:49.55 | SpeedEvil | mickey|away: is the PMU chip the same for the |
| 15:49.56 | cb22 | good thing i run freebsd |
| 15:49.58 | SpeedEvil | GTA02? |
| 15:51.24 | torpor | i think whats needed on the power side is some way of coordinating the power-change states in the distro .. |
| 15:51.33 | torpor | like different init states for whatever power mode is being run under. |
| 15:51.40 | Kero | what options to the compiler create faster apps/libs for the Neo? |
| 15:51.43 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Was I right about 2.8V being the minimum for the CPU to run? |
| 15:51.53 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: well... |
| 15:51.57 | torpor | the thing is there are various power modes available and combinations of those modes .. this can get confusing. but the standard unix handling is to put this feature in init states... |
| 15:52.11 | SpeedEvil | torpor: bad. |
| 15:52.18 | torpor | i don't see why? |
| 15:52.38 | SpeedEvil | torpor: you want GTA02 going in and out of suspend-RAM between touches, if no screen animation. |
| 15:52.44 | torpor | without a coordinating mechanism, such as init, there are too many ways for the power management to be corrupted by non-compliant apps.. |
| 15:52.53 | torpor | SpeedEvil: no, not that granular. |
| 15:53.01 | SpeedEvil | torpor: You want it _really_ lightweight. |
| 15:53.08 | torpor | i mean, being able to say 'under low power mode, battery-conservation mode, these apps should not run' ... |
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| 15:55.45 | torpor | so you can put an init script onboard that gets triggered when the battery goes into ultra-saver mode, so your app doesn't consume more battery life, etc. |
| 15:56.04 | mwester | We actually have several problems to solve as I understand it. The easiest problem (with good returns) would be to just ensure that the device no longer drains the battery when it powers itself off. |
| 15:56.09 | SpeedEvil | You unfortunately don't want it in init. |
| 15:56.23 | SpeedEvil | You need a portion of it in early u-boot. |
| 15:56.32 | SpeedEvil | To cope with resume policy. |
| 15:56.43 | mwester | After we get to that point, hopefully we'll have a lot fewer folks with the now-infamous dead-battery-can't-power-up-the-neo syndrome. |
| 15:57.19 | torpor | but i don't see why it has to be in u-boot |
| 15:57.30 | torpor | sleep is after all just another init state. |
| 15:57.59 | SpeedEvil | Because in suspend-RAM the CPU is not active. |
| 15:58.02 | torpor | i really think init should be being used properly at the distro level, and this is frustrating, because it isn't. |
| 15:58.07 | SpeedEvil | The CPU boots into uboot. |
| 15:58.19 | SpeedEvil | U-boot then resumes from RAM. |
| 15:58.48 | SpeedEvil | u-boot needs to know under what conditions it should do this, and under which conditions it should simply go to sleep again. |
| 15:59.21 | SpeedEvil | For example, you don't want to wakeup and go into linux if all you want is to log a byte from the serial port and go to sleep as fast as possible. |
| 15:59.23 | pH5 | SpeedEvil: couldn't this logic be placed in the kernel? |
| 15:59.39 | pH5 | that way it could be influenced by policy from userspace. |
| 15:59.43 | torpor | this seems to be outofband and funky |
| 15:59.48 | SpeedEvil | pH5: it can. The problem is that resume - starting up all the drivers will take time. |
| 15:59.50 | torpor | what pH5 says |
| 16:00.01 | SpeedEvil | CPU time = battery life. |
| 16:00.26 | torpor | custom u-boot code to solve a linux problem == not being able to use linux solutions for the problem. |
| 16:00.50 | pH5 | SpeedEvil: that's right, linux could certainly use some early resume infrastructure. |
| 16:00.56 | SpeedEvil | You are not in linux when the system is in suspend-RAM. |
| 16:01.24 | SpeedEvil | You want the resume code to be _lightweight |
| 16:01.35 | torpor | i guess the suspend-RAM issue is important because the CPU is asleep. |
| 16:01.44 | SpeedEvil | Of course userspace can tell this what do do. |
| 16:01.45 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 16:01.57 | SpeedEvil | It uses simply horrible amounts of power if it's not completely off. |
| 16:02.16 | torpor | but there are power management tools in linux already that should be exploitable |
| 16:02.35 | torpor | either way, i wish there was some way for my app to know when the phone is in lower-power mode.. |
| 16:02.47 | SpeedEvil | That's needed too of course. |
| 16:03.02 | mickey|tw | yay |
| 16:03.07 | SpeedEvil | And you need some way to say 'I'm doing a task for the user, don't go to sleep'. |
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| 16:03.14 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: with a new image, the mediaplayer works out of the box again. well done |
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| 16:03.41 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw: Awesome, thank you too :) |
| 16:03.46 | SpeedEvil | I don't see a way round it than a twisty maze of policy at diffeerent levels. |
| 16:05.26 | torpor | init levels |
| 16:05.33 | SpeedEvil | You've got the lowest level stuff that copes with stuff like (if this is possible) waking to check for bluetooth interrupts or to log GPS position every 5-60s or so, does shake detection, ... You've got the kernel drivers for all of this. You've got the userspace daemon that configures the kernel and talks to the apps, and you've got the apps themseves which have to talk to the daemon. |
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| 16:06.48 | SpeedEvil | The lowest level stuff much of it is running in u-boot or an equivalent, so it can powerdown the CPU again in as few milliseconds as possible. |
| 16:07.44 | SpeedEvil | Unless we can get it up and actually running in linux really really rapidly. |
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| 16:25.26 | abraxa__ | mickey|tw: Sean told me quite a while ago that OpenMoko, Inc. will pay license fees for mp3 playback. Do you have any idea if the same could happen for video codecs (e.g. MPEG/DivX) as well? |
| 16:26.34 | abraxa_ | (and wow, you're up late today) |
| 16:27.34 | cesarb | The power sag had to happen when ScaredyCat was about to explain the trick on how to compile qtopia... |
| 16:28.00 | mickey|tw | abraxa_: no idea actually |
| 16:28.03 | mickey|tw | well, it's 00:28 |
| 16:28.22 | mickey|tw | we'll think about it once our first device has the processing power to do it ;) |
| 16:28.36 | abraxa_ | Oh, only 6 hours? Could've sworn it were more |
| 16:28.50 | abraxa_ | Yeah, makes sense hehe |
| 16:29.09 | CM | abraxa_: We're still on summer time in europe aren't we? :-) |
| 16:30.22 | mickey|tw | we're all still hacking here |
| 16:30.22 | abraxa_ | CM: Ahh, don't ask such hard questions! Time zones are hard to manage in your head as it is :) |
| 16:30.26 | mickey|tw | stefan on qvga |
| 16:30.31 | mickey|tw | me on misc. stuff |
| 16:30.38 | mickey|tw | alphaone now on openezx |
| 16:30.50 | abraxa_ | mickey|tw: Rock on! |
| 16:31.01 | abraxa_ | I'm toying with video playback myself |
| 16:31.12 | mickey|tw | cool |
| 16:31.25 | mickey|tw | would be nice to have it working on gta01 even as tech.demo w/ 1 fps :D |
| 16:31.50 | mickey|tw | e.g. stefan's qvga patch will help a lot for that |
| 16:32.23 | abraxa_ | Yeah, definitely |
| 16:34.21 | LarstiQ | mickey|tw: thanks for fixing buildhost btw |
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| 16:40.37 | mickey|tw | np |
| 16:42.03 | torpor | mickey|tw: is alphaone *the* alphaone, of security services fame? |
| 16:42.37 | alphaone | torpor: probably not |
| 16:43.08 | torpor | heh |
| 16:43.14 | torpor | there are lots of alphaone's i suppose.. oh well. |
| 16:44.52 | torpor | dfu-util question .. -a 3 = kernel, 5 = rootfs, right? |
| 16:45.35 | abraxa_ | torpor: For flashing a new rootfs/kernel? No need to use numeric IDs for that |
| 16:46.33 | torpor | can i just give it the filenames and it'll work it out? |
| 16:47.50 | CoreDump | torpor: http://rafb.net/p/IH7rdj30.html |
| 16:48.43 | torpor | CoreDump: thanks |
| 16:50.53 | CoreDump | np |
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| 17:13.12 | Kero | $ ps ax |
| 17:13.12 | Kero | Unknown HZ value! (55) Assume 100. |
| 17:13.36 | mickey|tw | broken procps? |
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| 17:14.09 | rwhitby | morning |
| 17:14.31 | Kero | or broken kernel? Everything feels slow |
| 17:14.31 | rwhitby | mickey|tw: you're in my normal timezone, and I'm in the US. |
| 17:16.01 | mickey|tw | yeah, .tw makes it possible |
| 17:16.14 | Kero | gsmd is in permanent 'D' state. |
| 17:17.42 | Kero | wiping psplash, will reboot... |
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| 17:23.09 | *** part/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 17:23.27 | Kero | blergh. it's printing those ^[[P strings again. |
| 17:23.36 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44a665.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 17:24.00 | rwhitby | is the midori build failing for anyone else? |
| 17:24.20 | rwhitby | | document.h:48: error: expected ')' before '*' token |
| 17:24.25 | Kero | this time X starts, tho. |
| 17:25.53 | fgau | rwhitby: yes, midori builds also not for me |
| 17:26.25 | rwhitby | mickey|tw: who looks after midori? |
| 17:26.50 | Kero | neod at 100%, all the symptoms I had before. [events] is also rather busy. |
| 17:27.25 | Kero | difference is I stripped console=ttySAC0 from kernel params, so I wasn't really expecting this... |
| 17:32.44 | Kero | pretty much useless, once more. Why does my SIM upset my Neo so much? |
| 17:33.15 | mickey|tw | rwhitby: koen |
| 17:33.21 | mickey|tw | g'night |
| 17:33.33 | Kero | (and why is an applet that is not even visible, functioning as a supervisor to gsmd?) |
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| 17:38.59 | Kero | something saturates [events/0] and neod. Even when the SIM is out, again. |
| 17:39.44 | Kero | Xfbdev also uses a few % of the CPU (top uses the rest) |
| 17:41.30 | *** join/#openmoko xL0GiC (n=davs@76-10-131-120.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 17:42.06 | Kero | mmm... I remember lots of "Connected to Network" popups earlier, when there was no SIM inserted. |
| 17:42.16 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BBCC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:45.21 | Kero | will have to phone w/ another phone :( |
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| 17:51.58 | Ghiottone | does the gtk+-fastscaling replace gtk+ ? |
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| 17:55.28 | rwhitby | three weeks worth of updates I expect. |
| 17:57.54 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: that'd be my guess - that's why I'm trying now anyway |
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| 17:59.02 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, upgrading all the packages seem to trigger out of disk space problems |
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| 17:59.40 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: not here. 97% on rootfs |
| 18:00.27 | Ghiottone | did you remove something? |
| 18:00.34 | rwhitby | no |
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| 18:01.12 | loufoque | so nothing in the phone is ready? |
| 18:01.35 | rwhitby | the games work |
| 18:02.15 | rwhitby | I like the new startup sound. |
| 18:02.29 | loufoque | well, I just need a terminal |
| 18:02.54 | loufoque | but I also need proper power management, and good foundation libraries |
| 18:03.03 | loufoque | the graphical apps don't really matter |
| 18:03.09 | Ghiottone | yes here is working too |
| 18:03.21 | Ghiottone | and scrolling seems more responsive |
| 18:07.40 | *** part/#openmoko xL0GiC (n=davs@76-10-131-120.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 18:12.41 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 18:17.07 | rwhitby | hmm - it says "Connected to network", and /tmp/gsm.log indicates everything is fine, but the icon in the titlebar still has a question mark |
| 18:17.29 | rwhitby | hmm - the gsm icon no longer crashes things when you do stuff with it |
| 18:18.00 | Stephmw | does that mean you've stopped molesting it? |
| 18:18.18 | Kero | rwhitby: you seem to be behind events! I expected you to be ahead of them :) |
| 18:18.55 | *** part/#openmoko njan (i=james@freenode/staff/njan) |
| 18:18.56 | rwhitby | Kero: I'm on a 4 week overseas business trip. |
| 18:19.10 | Kero | sweet :) |
| 18:19.33 | Kero | (well, can be, depends a bit; I'll be trying 2x 3 weeks shortly) |
| 18:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko mockenh (n=mockenh@p57B8FE1B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:20.48 | Kero | hmf. I'm gonna try the overnight-battery-out, as if it is such kind of a problem. |
| 18:21.14 | Kero | otherwise, I'll have to reflash. |
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| 18:22.40 | abraxa_ | Kero: Did you do "nand erase rootfs" before you flashed the current image? |
| 18:22.49 | Kero | abraxa_: each and every time |
| 18:22.55 | abraxa_ | ah okay |
| 18:23.15 | Kero | abraxa_: it's not the first time I see this behaviour, either. |
| 18:23.35 | Kero | abraxa_: it starts when I insert my SIM |
| 18:23.41 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 18:24.27 | Kero | and my phone (or image, or...) degrades, such that when I take the SIM out again, it's still no good |
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| 18:29.45 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BBCC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:30.29 | Kero | so, concerning bug 788, are those patches being applied?? |
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| 18:55.24 | Kero | as good a time as any to update OM and complete my build of the image... |
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| 19:17.47 | mwester | Kero: Re 788 - I've seen no movement on that recently. I may just commit the latest patch into OE and let someone at openmoko take it out if it's a problem... |
| 19:18.10 | mwester | You can find a pre-built kernel with that patch at http://moko.mwester.net/ |
| 19:21.53 | Kero | mwester: sweet, might try that. |
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| 19:26.06 | Kero | any docs on libgsmd? Top entry in google is the gsmd page on the wiki, which has nothing. |
| 19:28.04 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@211.80-202-219.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:34.24 | roh | Kero since gsmd was a hack, is a hack, no there are no docs. there is the code you can read |
| 19:35.30 | zecke | roh: don't say hack. Say code is law. ;) |
| 19:35.49 | *** join/#openmoko jujun_ (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:35.59 | viq | "Use the force - read the source" ;) |
| 19:36.06 | roh | zecke actually its worse.. hacks can be good. gsmd was never intended to go into any real use as it is. |
| 19:36.43 | mwester | So, it would be a waste of time, then, to invest much effort in making it work better? |
| 19:38.00 | roh | mwester depends. just patching around on the symptoms doesnt help much i think. if you have fun rewriting the whole thing featurecomplete and meet the systems-architects expectations well.. then there is a replacement |
| 19:38.20 | roh | mwester i don't see anybody have enough time to enforce a rewrite soon |
| 19:38.48 | mwester | I fear you are correct on all points. Unfortunately I'm not qualified to rewrite it. :( |
| 19:42.33 | roh | well.. i'll have a meeting with harald this week, i'll put that onto my agenda (what happens with gsmd) |
| 19:42.33 | Kero | I would think, FIC needs a reliable gsmd |
| 19:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko dread (n=madmas@xdsl-87-79-111-27.netcologne.de) |
| 19:43.51 | Kero | so why don't they write one. (priorities, always priorities...) |
| 19:44.11 | roh | Kero fic does not write any code here |
| 19:44.12 | Kero | mwester: did you run that kernel yourself? |
| 19:44.22 | mwester | Kero: running it right now. |
| 19:44.32 | Kero | no problems with it? |
| 19:44.46 | mwester | Nothing it didn't have before I patched it :) |
| 19:44.57 | mwester | At least AFIAK -- perhaps there are some bugs. |
| 19:44.59 | Kero | (well, I didn't seem to have problems when I removed the ttySAC0 console param, now I have) |
| 19:45.40 | mwester | Hmmm... what sort of problems (there was a recent re-spin of the patch to address issues when the console param was removed) |
| 19:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko jchia (n=john@76.64.37.201) |
| 19:46.51 | Kero | inserted SIM, matchbox didn't even start. device seemed unbearably slow. |
| 19:47.08 | Kero | removed SIM, more of the same. parts of matchbox started, but never displayed. |
| 19:47.19 | Kero | gsmd seems hanging in 'D' state. |
| 19:47.42 | mwester | Which kernel did you flash? |
| 19:47.43 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 19:48.06 | Kero | rebooted, killed gsmd. [events/0] and neod share all of the CPU. |
| 19:48.26 | Kero | few weeks old, handbuilt from OM/OE |
| 19:48.53 | mwester | With the patches from bug 788, or not? |
| 19:49.10 | *** join/#openmoko matsimoto (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-026-169.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:50.17 | Kero | without. |
| 19:50.42 | Kero | ah, hand-built on Oct 13 or 14. The patch existed, but I did not apply it. |
| 19:51.03 | mwester | Ok. I've not observed that problem. I don't run the stock kernel except when debugging stuff, but I've not seen those symptoms. |
| 19:51.19 | Kero | `make clean` removed the kernel, I believe. don't have it on my build system anymore. |
| 19:51.53 | mwester | You can try this kernel, this is the one that I'm running right now: http://moko.mwester.net/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r3-neo1973.bin |
| 19:52.24 | Kero | and I'm leaving the phone off until tomorow, to see if it helps (prolly not, but I'm stupified why this behaviour repeats itself, especially when I take the SIM out again) |
| 19:52.53 | Kero | *ponders* |
| 19:53.04 | Kero | do I need 'nand erase kernel' |
| 19:53.14 | Kero | just like nand erase rootfs ? |
| 19:53.33 | Kero | why not? |
| 19:55.20 | mwester | The kernel is copied to RAM, and it doesn't matter what's in either the flash or the ram beyond the kernel. The rootfs is a filesystem, and JFFS2 expects to see empty space in the areas of that flash partition that are not data. |
| 19:56.15 | mwester | The problem is that dfu-util does not properly clear out the final bits of the flash partition for the rootfs, so JFFS2 gets confused when it finds data where it expected to find emptyness. |
| 19:56.32 | Kero | ok, clear. |
| 19:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 19:57.06 | roh | mwester: not dfu-util. that cannot do anything aout it. uboot needs to do the erase (and does for ages) |
| 19:57.36 | mwester | Ah, ok - yes, dfu-util runs on the host side only. my mistake. |
| 19:58.06 | roh | and to be frank, jffs2 is quite stressfull in its behaviour.. like a crying baby which does not like any trouble around it |
| 19:58.09 | Kero | roh: since which version? |
| 19:58.28 | roh | Kero uh.. need to look that up.. quite some time now |
| 19:58.45 | Kero | Aria: cairo bindings for Ruby also work now :) |
| 19:58.56 | Aria | Woot! |
| 19:59.06 | Kero | roh: not important, I never took the risk and always erased. |
| 19:59.34 | Kero | roh: at some point I'll want to update uboot, I'll locate a debugboard near me and do it. |
| 20:00.52 | Kero | Aria: takes a horrible 8 seconds to load, tho. |
| 20:00.59 | roh | 2632 i think |
| 20:01.15 | Kero | and not the faintest idea how I could optimize. |
| 20:01.27 | roh | Kero as long as you flash a uboot which somebody tested i do not see any big risk |
| 20:01.48 | Aria | Hrm |
| 20:01.50 | Aria | That blows |
| 20:02.06 | Kero | roh: true. I assume there is a checksum mechanism before uboot encourages reboots :) |
| 20:02.20 | Aria | Surprises me too, since nothing involved is that biug |
| 20:02.57 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.1.fullrate.dk) |
| 20:03.42 | Kero | Aria: yeah. I'm wondering whether there's a compiler option that should be used |
| 20:03.57 | Kero | haven't had a chance to see what takes most time |
| 20:04.14 | roh | Kero i dunno for sure, but i think the dfu trailer contains also a checksum. its mainly there and only at the uboot to make sure you do not flash a uboot for gta01bv2 onto a bv4 and brick it |
| 20:04.43 | Kero | but, loading takes 0.3 seconds on my laptop, which is not zero. The multiplication of 20 is not that weird... |
| 20:04.51 | Aria | No, true. |
| 20:04.58 | Aria | I'd love to know what the delay is |
| 20:05.04 | Aria | Is it CPU bound? |
| 20:06.08 | Kero | dunno. will find out. got a higher priority on a fresh image now (SIM/gsmd messed up) |
| 20:07.09 | Kero | (ruby -rprofile, that'll be slow :) |
| 20:09.09 | Kero | Aria: http://chmeee.dyndns.org/om/native_eggclock.png |
| 20:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:09.26 | Aria | (oy) |
| 20:09.30 | Aria | Nice |
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| 20:23.02 | oryn | hi |
| 20:23.25 | oryn | anyone awake? |
| 20:24.12 | abraxa_ | Nope |
| 20:24.16 | oryn | lol |
| 20:24.40 | oryn | I'm trying to get sound to work on my neo1973 |
| 20:24.48 | abraxa_ | ..but? |
| 20:24.55 | oryn | its not working |
| 20:25.09 | abraxa_ | Using OpenMoko or Qtopia? |
| 20:25.14 | oryn | ogg123 thiks its playing, but there is no sound |
| 20:25.27 | oryn | openmoko, theres another os for it??? |
| 20:25.29 | abraxa_ | Ah, OM - did you restore one of the ALSA sound states? |
| 20:25.49 | oryn | I don't think so |
| 20:26.06 | abraxa_ | Try an "alsactl -f /etc/stereoout.state restore" |
| 20:27.00 | oryn | abraxa_, thanks :) |
| 20:27.04 | oryn | its working now |
| 20:27.09 | abraxa_ | Good :) |
| 20:27.17 | oryn | whats Qtopia? |
| 20:27.45 | abraxa_ | As about your OS question - yes, Trolltech released their Qtopia environment under GPL which means it can be run on the Neo as well |
| 20:28.18 | oryn | is it any better as in further forward than OM? |
| 20:29.01 | abraxa_ | Well, it has been in development for several years now, so yes |
| 20:29.45 | abraxa_ | OM will eventually catch up, though |
| 20:30.03 | cjb_ie | any posibility to mix and match? |
| 20:30.36 | abraxa_ | Nope - it's basically the old "GNOME vs. KDE" discussion all over again |
| 20:30.38 | Jiten | about the same possibilities as mixing and matching gnome and kde software ;) |
| 20:30.58 | roh | abraxa_ well-. that would be childish ;) |
| 20:31.23 | abraxa_ | roh: But that's what it boils down to |
| 20:31.27 | Kero | some backends could be shared? I bet there's iCal underneath (or at least available in) both |
| 20:31.28 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178214081.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:31.45 | roh | i see it more as 'we now have country AND western.. and one band plays for drinks only' |
| 20:31.52 | abraxa_ | LOL |
| 20:32.18 | abraxa_ | I love that - even if I can't stand either music style ;D |
| 20:32.20 | roh | Kero atm nothing besides the kernel gets shared |
| 20:32.37 | roh | abraxa_ ;) |
| 20:32.38 | Kero | roh: not even some gsm stuff? |
| 20:32.42 | roh | nope. |
| 20:32.53 | Kero | what do they use? can we steal that? |
| 20:33.10 | abraxa_ | "steal", heh |
| 20:33.18 | roh | Kero trolltech just portet their gui to be useful without any hardkeys |
| 20:33.20 | Kero | it's GPL, we can steal |
| 20:33.46 | abraxa_ | "stealing" free software - it's an interesting paradoxon :) |
| 20:33.54 | roh | Kero wel.. that woulndt make much sense from an architectural view |
| 20:34.00 | Writcie | Kero: Qtopia GSM and lower levels are not LGPL. They cannot be used with proprietary applications without paying license fees to Qtopia. |
| 20:34.13 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird_mobile (n=jaebird_@32.162.149.53) |
| 20:34.14 | Kero | Writcie: curse them :( |
| 20:34.33 | Writcie | they are entitled to their business model. |
| 20:34.38 | Kero | not that I'm using prop appls ? |
| 20:35.32 | Writchie | some people insist on the ability to run a proprietary app whould one come along and provide sufficient value for money to them. |
| 20:35.43 | Writchie | s/whould/should/ |
| 20:36.39 | Kero | money is overrated. |
| 20:36.45 | oryn | lol |
| 20:36.48 | Writchie | so for some (if not many) people an lgpl like foundation is better than a GPL non-commerical license |
| 20:37.11 | zecke | Writchie: you can run as many proprietary apps on Qtopia as you want... the (L)GPL is about distribution... |
| 20:37.20 | Kero | roh: what do you mean with "not much sense from an architectural view"? |
| 20:37.53 | Jiten | in other words, you can take the Qtopia GSM module and adapt it to neo. There is just no hope of it becoming a standard part of OM |
| 20:37.59 | Writchie | zecke: to run it you have to get it "distributed" to you |
| 20:38.16 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:38.18 | oryn | wow thats some stereo separation they got going on in the neo, I wonder how long someone sat there designing the speaker system |
| 20:38.45 | zecke | Writchie: still, you can build and run your proprietary apps. If you want to distribute/sell you have to make a choice. Either contribute to FreeSoftware or pay a fee |
| 20:38.46 | Writchie | oryn: it gone in GTA02 - only one speaker |
| 20:39.06 | oryn | and I wonder how long that person cried for when they removed one speaker for the wifi |
| 20:39.12 | zecke | the app should be MIT licensed anyway, so the decision is a no-brainer |
| 20:40.35 | oryn | has anyone actualy made a phone call on their neo yet? |
| 20:40.51 | Writchie | yes - many |
| 20:40.55 | oryn | wow |
| 20:41.09 | Writchie | mostly using the Qtopia load or command line. |
| 20:41.09 | oryn | every time O put a sim card in mine nothing happens |
| 20:41.23 | oryn | 0=i |
| 20:41.44 | oryn | I hate this keyboard |
| 20:41.46 | Kero | two, with myself. The one I wanted to make today fsckered my Neo. |
| 20:42.47 | oryn | I'm trying the lastest build on OM |
| 20:43.00 | oryn | after I fixed the librarys |
| 20:43.04 | oryn | it boots |
| 20:43.13 | roh | Kero wel.. the architecture of om and qtoptia differs in some key points, and ripping stones from one and use it on the other with some kind of wrapper to make it fit is a worse solution |
| 20:43.49 | oryn | for some reason some of the libs instead of symlinks were empty dirs |
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| 20:51.00 | matsimoto | does anyone know if there comes a \r or a \n or both from the GSM modem when it says RING ? |
| 20:51.36 | *** join/#openmoko Jumb0 (n=Jimmy@c-76-22-221-126.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 20:54.12 | Writchie | matsimoto: spec requires <CR><LF> |
| 20:54.40 | Aria | Does it follow spec? |
| 20:54.44 | matsimoto | Writchie: thanks ! |
| 20:54.45 | Writchie | yes |
| 20:55.14 | Writchie | additional after ring depends on how responses have been set up with previous commands |
| 20:56.15 | oryn | so how does on get the gsmd to register its self? |
| 20:58.11 | Writchie | oryn: its pretty well covered in the wiki. - +COPS command - see gsm 7.07 |
| 20:58.46 | Writchie | oryn: you can also look at the gsmd initialization code. |
| 21:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 21:01.13 | oryn | Writchie, all I wana do is just test my hardware |
| 21:02.48 | Writchie | oryn: then your best bet for now is probably to load Qtopia. |
| 21:03.55 | Writchie | oryn: there are dozens of things you could load up and play with - most of them broken in one way or another. |
| 21:08.07 | Writchie | oryn: I can you that the original Qtopia load basically worked after setting the audio. It was functional for voice calls and SMS but the PM issues still made it unuasable as a phone except for a couple hours at a time. |
| 21:08.27 | oryn | I see |
| 21:08.27 | Writchie | s/unuasable/unusable/ |
| 21:08.57 | oryn | thats quite funny, you have apt bot in here :) |
| 21:15.20 | *** join/#openmoko jchia (n=john@76.64.37.86) |
| 21:17.58 | oryn | gsmd doesn't seem to work very well, or I'm doing something wrong |
| 21:20.58 | abraxa_ | oryn: Yes it doesn't - yet |
| 21:21.11 | oryn | :) |
| 21:22.22 | oryn | I seem to have a broken media player too, its complaining about gstreamer |
| 21:22.51 | oryn | failed to initialise |
| 21:23.50 | oryn | it does totaly support my 4G microSD though, which I'm very pleased about |
| 21:24.13 | oryn | the wiki said noone has tested that as yet |
| 21:24.42 | sagacis | oryn, abraxa's a better responder, but you may have to manually install gst-plugin-openmoko or something like that. |
| 21:24.45 | fgau | oryn: mediaplayer works fine for me |
| 21:25.50 | fgau | oryn: they have made some fixes today |
| 21:29.08 | oryn | it thinks its all up to date |
| 21:29.18 | roh | oryn 4g was tested.. but not 8 (not avail) |
| 21:29.49 | oryn | roh ahh |
| 21:30.00 | sagacis_ | roh, how about 6gb? |
| 21:30.20 | roh | sagacis: also not avail.. and ive also not heard about that strange size |
| 21:30.36 | roh | who should build such a thing |
| 21:30.36 | sagacis_ | You can buy it now. Tiger Direct and other places. |
| 21:30.41 | oryn | sizes seem to follow base2 |
| 21:30.58 | roh | 6gs sounds like 8gb ones with lots of bad blocks |
| 21:31.04 | sagacis_ | Sandisk |
| 21:31.05 | oryn | lol |
| 21:31.12 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 21:31.13 | sagacis_ | http://meritline.stores.yahoo.net/sandisk-6gb-microsd-sdhc-memory-card.html |
| 21:31.33 | sagacis_ | heh... |
| 21:31.47 | roh | sagacis_ they announced 4, then 8gb and even in taiwan you could not buy one. the only and first one we got was 4gb |
| 21:31.52 | sagacis_ | 3 x 2gb in one card? |
| 21:32.10 | roh | which is ok. because everything > 2gb needs sdhc which was what we want to test. |
| 21:32.11 | sagacis_ | the 6gb's just came out |
| 21:32.31 | sagacis_ | The 8gb's are supposed to be available in the spring, officially |
| 21:32.48 | roh | well-.the pressrelease said otherwise |
| 21:33.05 | sagacis_ | Otherwise? Maybe I should read another press release. |
| 21:34.38 | geneberg | hi sagacis: 6g works just fine http://pastebin.ca/744886 |
| 21:34.53 | sagacis_ | Cool. I'll have to spring for one pretty soon. |
| 21:35.19 | *** join/#openmoko munga (n=abate@did75-4-82-66-47-240.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:36.57 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFFE6A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:38.12 | *** join/#openmoko pezed (n=Miranda@125-238-1-234.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) |
| 21:38.48 | roh | sagacis announced for fall 07 .. hmm |
| 21:45.13 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:46.40 | Writchie | note HCSD will not be supported by GTA02 IIRC |
| 21:47.25 | Vegar | hcsd? |
| 21:47.26 | oryn | I wonder why not? |
| 21:47.39 | LittleIdiot | ...will csd be? |
| 21:48.21 | Writchie | Vegar: High Capacity SD card |
| 21:48.26 | Vegar | <roh> which is ok. because everything > 2gb needs sdhc which was what we want to test. |
| 21:48.37 | Vegar | Writchie: oh, wait, GTA02 |
| 21:49.04 | LittleIdiot | oh, i've read hscsd... |
| 21:49.28 | SpeedEvil | unrotated, or rotated? |
| 21:49.34 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:49.36 | oryn | I wonder if it will have a quick change slot loader |
| 21:49.52 | Writchie | no IIRC |
| 21:49.54 | Writchie | same slot |
| 21:50.08 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Unrotated, scaled to postage stamp size. gstreamer seems a tad bloated. |
| 21:50.16 | Vegar | Writchie: why did they change that? |
| 21:50.19 | SpeedEvil | I've not used it. |
| 21:50.43 | Writchie | wifi and accelerated video |
| 21:50.57 | Writchie | compromises |
| 21:51.11 | Vegar | oh man.. |
| 21:51.15 | Vegar | that's sad |
| 21:51.55 | oryn | I'm not bothered about video, its sound I like |
| 21:52.14 | SpeedEvil | Sound is unaffected. |
| 21:52.18 | SpeedEvil | Erll, that's not true |
| 21:52.24 | SpeedEvil | There is only one speaker. |
| 21:52.28 | oryn | its going mono |
| 21:52.31 | SpeedEvil | Well that's not true |
| 21:52.32 | abraxa_ | Writchie: I thought it was SDIO they dropped, not HCSD support |
| 21:53.46 | oryn | anyone know why they turned off the penguin on boot up? |
| 21:53.47 | Aria | Hey, quick Q while I have everything unplugged and rebuilding the SDK, is gcc for the Neo built as -eabi or as -gnueabi? |
| 21:53.56 | Writchie | I though it was both, although I could be mistaken. |
| 21:54.01 | Vegar | the wiki says HCSD is supported by GTA02.. |
| 21:54.08 | mjr | whaatwhatwhat, no SDHC? |
| 21:54.14 | roh | irgh.. please do not confuse any abbreviations.. gsm and it has just too many of them |
| 21:54.19 | abraxa_ | Aria: OE states TARGET_OS = "linux-gnueabi" |
| 21:54.30 | Aria | Woot, thank you. |
| 21:54.43 | mjr | I mean, okay, I know the SD card slot is wired to the GPU on GTA02, and that could presumably screw it up, but, oh, please no |
| 21:55.09 | SpeedEvil | If microSD now is limited to 2GB, that is a _hideous_ oops. |
| 21:55.22 | roh | gta02 will of course support sdhc.. what sense would it make to do that for gta01 and not for gta02. and yes the simcard/microsd-socket is beeing changed to a new one, but no, no case changes, thus no hot-swap |
| 21:55.23 | SpeedEvil | However, it's at worst another board spin. |
| 21:55.35 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 21:55.47 | abraxa_ | Thanks, roh |
| 21:55.52 | SpeedEvil | roh: does GTA02 support SDIO? |
| 21:56.04 | roh | SpeedEvil yes. wifi is connected to it. |
| 21:56.09 | mjr | roh, okay. You were an at OM inc, iirc? |
| 21:56.11 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 21:56.16 | mjr | (just to make that official) |
| 21:56.21 | SpeedEvil | roh: I mean - the port to which the microSD is connected. |
| 21:56.23 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Harald said no |
| 21:56.36 | SpeedEvil | roh: not the internal SoC port. |
| 21:56.37 | roh | SpeedEvil on the microsd-socket, i dunno.. whatfor? there is no space to even run wires out there |
| 21:56.54 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/neo1973-hardware/2007-October/000260.html |
| 21:57.02 | SpeedEvil | roh: can get a flex cable out. |
| 21:57.27 | SpeedEvil | (probably, I haven't seen a GTA02) |
| 21:57.29 | torpor | no space left on device |
| 21:57.30 | torpor | wtf? |
| 21:57.30 | roh | SpeedEvil nope. not without making the simcard connectors flakey i think |
| 21:57.38 | torpor | how are we supposed to put the modules onboard these days? |
| 21:57.40 | mjr | (external in the sense of wired to the slot, of course) |
| 21:57.51 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 21:57.54 | SpeedEvil | Oh well. |
| 21:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@68.126.28.248) |
| 21:58.06 | roh | SpeedEvil besides that, there is spi an extra irq and i2c on testpads AND the debugport... extensions should go there. |
| 21:58.21 | roh | SpeedEvil the microsd slot is really needed for extra memory |
| 21:58.28 | torpor | roh: we had heard that sdhc wasn't being supported because on the gta02 wlan uses the spare sd i/o pins .. |
| 21:58.39 | mjr | torpor, that's silly then |
| 21:58.51 | SpeedEvil | wlan in GTA02 is off the video accellerator |
| 21:59.07 | mjr | SpeedEvil, wasn't it the other way around (wlan on soc, card on GPU)? |
| 21:59.16 | torpor | sheesh |
| 21:59.23 | SpeedEvil | err - yes |
| 21:59.24 | torpor | either way lets hope we don't end up with borked wlan.. |
| 21:59.31 | SpeedEvil | err - I dunno. |
| 21:59.34 | roh | torpor i dunno for sure about sdhc behind the graphics-chip, but i think we will find a way. its clearly needed. |
| 21:59.36 | torpor | and: what about the onboard modules in moko? how is this filesystem full already? |
| 21:59.37 | mjr | roh? :) |
| 21:59.49 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar (i=bflong@216-164-162-138.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com) |
| 21:59.56 | SpeedEvil | torpor: it's getting close to full. |
| 21:59.57 | roh | SpeedEvil the wireless is connected to the cpu, not the gpu. |
| 22:00.06 | roh | mjr ? |
| 22:00.12 | SpeedEvil | roh: thansk. |
| 22:00.17 | torpor | SpeedEvil: in my case its totally full. |
| 22:00.27 | torpor | i suppose i should set up the sd card as a new destination for apps then .. |
| 22:00.31 | SpeedEvil | torpor: gta02 has twice the base memory |
| 22:00.46 | torpor | SpeedEvil: gta01 is sitting in front of me, and isn't vapor. |
| 22:01.40 | torpor | c'mon this inability to make the gta01 work in any capacity 'just coz gta02 is coming and its cool and all the decisions are being made on the basis of vapor hardware' is frustrating as hell. i could care less about gta02. i want gta01 working before i invest any more in openmoko hardware. |
| 22:01.52 | mjr | roh, just asking for verification on what you just verified, that is, the wlan/card SD hookups :) |
| 22:02.07 | abraxa_ | torpor: If you don't mind being unable to use WebKit you can zap /usr/lib/libWebKitGtk.so.* and libicudata.* - gives you 18 megs |
| 22:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko davi (i=davi@57.Red-88-2-100.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:02.27 | torpor | should i just move over to booting off SD then? maybe thats better. |
| 22:02.43 | SpeedEvil | torpor: you can just put /usr/local onto the media card |
| 22:02.45 | torpor | abraxa_: no i want webkit, alas. |
| 22:02.54 | davi | Have I to pay to be able to receive the GPS signal? |
| 22:02.59 | torpor | there is no /usr/local |
| 22:03.06 | Vegar | no davi |
| 22:03.10 | ckuethe | davi: yes |
| 22:03.14 | torpor | davi: yes, for a phone that doesn't have a borked and closed-source GPS driver. |
| 22:03.20 | ckuethe | i will send you my address so you can send me money |
| 22:03.34 | ckuethe | then i will send you a gps signal license |
| 22:03.50 | ckuethe | or, if you're a us citizen, you already pay for it |
| 22:03.54 | ckuethe | via your taxes |
| 22:04.09 | torpor | seriously openmoko people, this is a real mess. i'm being hindered by a complete lack of any responsible decision making on getting the gta01 functioning and functioning properly. when is there going to be an openmoko distribution person making real decisions and serving as a target for this ire? |
| 22:04.22 | davi | So, it just as the satelite signal, not coded. I buy the hardware, and no more payments? |
| 22:04.29 | ckuethe | right |
| 22:04.30 | SpeedEvil | davi: yes |
| 22:04.33 | Aria | davi: right |
| 22:04.41 | davi | thanks all |
| 22:04.42 | torpor | 3 months later, same battery life issue. same non-working GPS. same non-working phone functions. |
| 22:05.00 | torpor | put down your pretty gta02 kits and fix the openmoko distro, yo!! |
| 22:05.03 | abraxa_ | ckuethe: Too bad he completely ignored you. It was a nice try ;) |
| 22:05.31 | Vegar | torpor: everyone's working on getting the GTA02 hardware done |
| 22:05.38 | roh | torpor it seems you have no clue why gta01 was ever sold |
| 22:05.44 | Aria | I'm still struggling with OE. I'd be contributing code already if it was easier. C I know, GTK I know. Bitbake and OE is a huge brickwall to the learning curve. |
| 22:05.52 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@196.205.192.57) |
| 22:06.00 | abraxa_ | Aria: Anything we can help with? |
| 22:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-67-9-161-48.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 22:06.18 | oryn | OE? |
| 22:06.19 | torpor | Vegar: i know that. |
| 22:06.30 | Aria | abraxa_: Broken builds every time I try, changing like quicksand. |
| 22:06.38 | torpor | roh: i thought it was being sold to attract developers who want to work on 3rd party apps for an open phone .. |
| 22:06.44 | Aria | abraxa_: That and it takes DAYS to compile, because the focus is on images, not packages. |
| 22:06.52 | Aria | And it insists on building software I already have natively |
| 22:07.10 | Aria | torpor: No, to develop the platform _and_ apps |
| 22:07.12 | torpor | aria be patient |
| 22:07.39 | torpor | well thats my point: the platform is borked. its not progressing for the gta01, its progressing for non-existent hardware. |
| 22:07.43 | Aria | Heh, I am patient. Just frustrated that I can't seem to get a sane set of tools built that aren't beyond complex. |
| 22:07.46 | roh | torpor it was sold because people demanded it and we could not just give them away for free to everybody. if it was for some people from the coreteam they would never been sold. just because software is not ready |
| 22:07.46 | abraxa_ | Aria: Of course, it cross-compiles them for the Neo. However I found that doing incremental updates works better than nuking the entire build/tmp directory every week |
| 22:08.06 | Aria | abraxa_: Not perl-i686. I have that, yet it insists on building it. (And last time, that was the one that failed) |
| 22:08.09 | torpor | we gta01 users can't be expected to just toe the line because you guys have gta02's. its frustrating all efforts to write apps for this envrionment, that changes are bieng made to bork the *existing* hardware. |
| 22:08.28 | SpeedEvil | GTA02 is a driver change. |
| 22:08.35 | SpeedEvil | Almost no core software changes. |
| 22:08.43 | torpor | horseshit |
| 22:08.43 | Aria | abraxa_: I'm just frustrated by the build process that insists on setting up its own cleanroom installs of stuff. |
| 22:08.47 | roh | torpor on the contrary we recieve encouragement from people who would have beought a arm9 develkit elsewise and now use a gta01 and are happy.. which is kinda funny |
| 22:08.51 | abraxa_ | Aria: I see your point |
| 22:08.52 | Aria | No, really, torpor. Just drivers. |
| 22:09.05 | torpor | there are huge differences in the software base package between gta02 and gta01, if the gta01 filesystem is full right now "because everyone has gta02's".. |
| 22:09.06 | SpeedEvil | torpor: it is really just drivers. Apart from video. |
| 22:09.27 | torpor | this is just horse crap |
| 22:09.32 | ljp | in't there an sdk toolchain available? |
| 22:09.33 | torpor | its not 'just drivers' |
| 22:09.35 | Aria | abraxa_: And it's not like building a distro is unfamiliar -- I'm a maintainer of a large linux distro. Aside from the cross-compilation, it's a similar goal. It's just that the OE tools are ten times as complex |
| 22:09.44 | torpor | its 'more drivers', 'more apps' being included, because the filesystem is larger too .. |
| 22:10.00 | roh | torpor gta02 runs the exact same kernel and userland as gta01. so youre clearly wrong there. |
| 22:10.05 | Aria | Heh, such minor changes. I have plenty of space on my 01 filesystem |
| 22:10.07 | torpor | aria suffer through a build first, complete a successful image build, then do daily increments. |
| 22:10.19 | torpor | i've been doing just that for months and yes it is a hassle, but you can manage it. |
| 22:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 22:10.33 | Aria | torpor: Yeah, but the build is broken every time I try. For weeks, perl-native wouldn't build. |
| 22:10.47 | Aria | I have to get different native software to build the native software to build OE |
| 22:10.49 | torpor | roh: if gta01 is currently suffering under a totally fully filesystem, and won't therefore *work*, because gta02 has more storage, then there *ARE* differences. get the point. |
| 22:10.52 | Aria | It's just frustrating dependency hell |
| 22:10.57 | abraxa_ | Aria: Not going to argue that, it's totally true. I'm however more interested in solving any hands-on problems you might have ;) |
| 22:11.12 | Aria | abraxa_: HEhe, okay. I'll let you know how getting my external cross-compiler working is ;-) |
| 22:11.31 | torpor | so who is the new openmoko dude to handle these issues? |
| 22:11.42 | roh | torpor there are less than 10 gta02 devices that work that far to get to the userland. so you clearly fucked something up in your build. everyone including the coreteam develops with gta01 |
| 22:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar (i=bflong@216-164-162-138.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com) |
| 22:11.52 | Aria | abraxa_: 'cause if I can distribute easy-to-build RPMs for cross utils, then I suspect I can get someone a working SDK faster than I can with OE |
| 22:11.55 | torpor | because i think i might suggest to the community that openmoko suffer the indignities of a *FORK* just to get the gta01 hardware working. |
| 22:12.00 | roh | only the few people who do driver work on gta02 touch it at all atm |
| 22:12.11 | Aria | abraxa_: And when all you want to do is hack apps, hooking the whole build system is pointless. Just build your app and be done. |
| 22:12.35 | torpor | 43237376 Oct 21 23:08 openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 |
| 22:12.48 | roh | torpor please stop the FUD when you do not know whats happening or ignore the facts (which you can read up in the source released already) |
| 22:12.49 | torpor | /dev/mtdblock4 61.1M 46.7M 14.4M 76% / |
| 22:13.17 | Aria | torpor: Yes, and? It fits. |
| 22:13.27 | Aria | (... and you can always use SD) |
| 22:13.31 | torpor | roh: godamnit i have been tracking this project every day for months, both on the lists, on the wiki, on this channel. and i'll be damned if there aren't more and more problems every day that are getting in the way of really getting some serious code *written*, not just ported. |
| 22:13.47 | torpor | Aria: thats without a /lib/modules dir .. |
| 22:14.06 | Aria | And the modules for a GTA01bv4 are what? |
| 22:14.12 | torpor | what openmoko needs right now is a stable, predictable release schedule. please get someone on that! |
| 22:14.19 | roh | torpor it seems you did not update your oe/om quite some time. we renamed gta01 components in oe about a week ago since they are not different from gta02 to neo1973 (both gta01 and gta02 are neo1973) |
| 22:14.19 | Aria | Critical device drivers, 100k, filesystems and networking, 2mb? |
| 22:14.32 | torpor | Aria: -rwx------ 1 j j 24633099 Oct 21 23:08 modules-2.6.22.5-moko11-r3-neo1973.tgz |
| 22:14.53 | Aria | And you need what part of that? |
| 22:15.08 | torpor | whatever part is supposed to be stable and available to developers to rely on. |
| 22:15.30 | ljp | i thought someone was creating a sdk toolchain you could use |
| 22:15.38 | Ghiottone | probably they are full of symbols and debugging information |
| 22:15.50 | abraxa_ | ljp: mickey's on it but didn't finish yet |
| 22:16.36 | torpor | roh: update my oe/om? you mean 'make update', or something else? |
| 22:16.37 | ljp | there is a toolchain at qtopia.net but it wont have gtk/x11 headers and such |
| 22:16.54 | roh | torpor OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20071016-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 22:17.04 | roh | 43024384 bytes |
| 22:17.27 | roh | fits wonderful |
| 22:17.34 | torpor | including modules? |
| 22:17.48 | Aria | Which modules do you need, torpor? |
| 22:17.51 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 22:17.53 | roh | torpor the modulesa re already in there (the ones you need) |
| 22:17.59 | Aria | I mean, it's not like you need nvidia.ko or anything... |
| 22:18.05 | torpor | my /lib/modules is empty. i got a modules*tar.gz file. |
| 22:18.11 | roh | the modules-2.6.22.5-moko11-r3-neo1973.tgz does contain ALL modules. you do not need them all |
| 22:19.08 | torpor | what are the base modules in the list then? why must i decide that? isn't that supposed to be an openmoko decision? and if so, what is the list? i need a reliable distro to develop for; i don't need to be making OS decisions for my end users. |
| 22:19.33 | torpor | too much generics, not enough responsible final packaging. its overdue. |
| 22:19.35 | Aria | http://clay.ll.pl/osmo/ # Fun -- might work well on the Neo |
| 22:19.50 | roh | torpor well.. all modules i ever needed on the device were installed to the base-filesystem when buiulding it. |
| 22:20.04 | torpor | sound? |
| 22:20.04 | Aria | torpor: Heh. Fud. What do you need that the kernel doesn't have? |
| 22:20.15 | Aria | Sound is in the base image... |
| 22:20.24 | torpor | doesn't work here. |
| 22:20.26 | roh | sounds working nice here on the last image i tested |
| 22:20.39 | torpor | the image i built today: no sound. no alsa cards found. |
| 22:20.55 | Aria | Yeah, last image I tested too. |
| 22:20.58 | roh | torpor as i said.. something on your builds is snafu |
| 22:21.08 | torpor | but okay, fine, i'll rebuild from scratch overnight and see how things are tomorrow. |
| 22:21.41 | roh | well. i will update an kick off a new build here to test that.. but please be patient.. umts only for me |
| 22:22.01 | CM | I just think that september was a slow month, probably mroe regressions than improvements, but the last 3 weeks have been good I think |
| 22:22.18 | CM | Aria: All is relative.. ;-) |
| 22:22.23 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 22:22.27 | Aria | F. Shure |
| 22:22.34 | Kero | ha. "some PM issues", how many hours on battery? "GSM dodgy", you bet... |
| 22:22.40 | torpor | by nicely working neo do you mean GPS works too? |
| 22:22.53 | CM | torpor: Nope, but I blame that on the lawyers |
| 22:22.57 | Aria | Nope. GPS still needs a binary blob. |
| 22:23.01 | Aria | And fucking lawyers. Mrrr. |
| 22:23.09 | torpor | sorry but that is whack. |
| 22:23.23 | torpor | nobody thinks its important to have working GPS? |
| 22:23.30 | Kero | reality can be whack |
| 22:23.30 | Aria | What's whack? Legal issues? Agreed ;-) |
| 22:23.41 | Aria | Yeah, it's important. Less important to me than GSM though |
| 22:23.44 | torpor | whack that nobody is working on gps for the gta01. |
| 22:23.51 | torpor | but i'm sure there's plenty going on for gta02 isn't there, eh? |
| 22:24.02 | Aria | torpor: What's to work on? It needs a closed-source blob that's held up in legal. |
| 22:24.10 | Aria | torpor: Whereas GTA02 has a different chipset. |
| 22:24.12 | CM | torpor: If they change to a supported chip, there's no work needed |
| 22:24.13 | roh | torpor its totally inimportant what we think or do. as long as no lawyer completes the fscking licence text we cannot release gllin, not even oabi |
| 22:24.14 | doc|home | there is work going on on GTA01 gps |
| 22:24.18 | doc|home | isn't there? |
| 22:24.24 | doc|home | sounded like there was on the ML |
| 22:24.35 | CM | doc|home: You mean an open driver? |
| 22:24.38 | torpor | its just PR to keep the list traffic under control. |
| 22:24.42 | adjaxio | http://adjaxio.miniville.fr/ |
| 22:24.45 | SpeedEvil | dog: not really |
| 22:24.45 | doc|home | ah, wel, that's a whooooole different thing |
| 22:24.47 | Aria | torpor: Evidence of that is where? |
| 22:24.48 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: not really |
| 22:24.57 | torpor | Aria: no gps driver. |
| 22:25.05 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: it's kind of stalled - as GTA02 has come out with a different chip. |
| 22:25.10 | Aria | torpor: So? That's quite the leap. |
| 22:25.27 | doc|home | SpeedEvil: there is a driver, closed, for the GTA01, so, *shrug*, is it that big a deal? |
| 22:25.32 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: hence in the lack of development funds, the development effort for only maybe 200 users that may use it, ... |
| 22:25.34 | torpor | all i'm asking is for some sanity on the distro builds so that things start to work. |
| 22:25.45 | doc|home | I mean, the gta01 was always meant as a dev device |
| 22:25.53 | doc|home | SpeedEvil: exactly |
| 22:25.55 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: in principle yes. The GPS in GTA01 could have been a lot more flexible than the one in GTA02 |
| 22:26.24 | torpor | doc|home: if that were the case, then it would be possible to dev for it. but it isn't because the distro is not stable and keeps regressing, the toolkit is fat and overwhelming for a lot of developers, and stuff doesn't work which really should by now. |
| 22:26.28 | CM | Aria: They were discussing that on OEDEM, some kind of build environment |
| 22:26.38 | roh | torpor again youre spreading total bullshit. the driver for gps is there. its working for oabi, its not working for eabi (which brmc has to fix since we do not have the source). we just cannot release the working oabi component because the lawyer to write the document hasnt completed it yet. |
| 22:26.45 | Aria | CM: awesome |
| 22:27.01 | doc|home | torpor: what roh said |
| 22:27.03 | roh | its fscking legal crap. that just takes time. much more than any developer can imagine |
| 22:27.06 | Kero | why does this seem a bad moment to build yet another build system ? |
| 22:27.24 | Writchie | roh: is the GSM 850 legal crap too? |
| 22:27.34 | torpor | roh: i'm not spreading total bullshit. the fact is, the GPS doesn't work. GSM didn't work until 3 days ago and even then its flakey.\ |
| 22:27.34 | CM | Kero: It's not yet another as i got it, more like having a finished oe setup |
| 22:27.41 | roh | Writchie i dunno exactly. |
| 22:27.51 | CM | Kero: Or do you refer to Aria's work? :) |
| 22:27.59 | torpor | roh: do this. imagine you're writing up a review of the openmoko phone having had it for 2 months. what will you tell people as of today? |
| 22:28.13 | Kero | CM: ok, if you can get a definition and working definition of "finished" :) |
| 22:28.20 | CM | torpor: I'd say "still under heavy development" :) |
| 22:28.20 | Kero | I'm not up to speed what Aria is doing |
| 22:28.21 | Aria | torpor: I'd say "works as advertised" |
| 22:28.28 | roh | torpor ive made gsm calls with a gta01bv2 which did not even have an imei sticker, about 6 month ago.. and no, there was no gsmd or gui involved. |
| 22:28.43 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@63.sub-70-203-248.myvzw.com) |
| 22:28.48 | Aria | Kero: I'm trying to build RPMs of the cross-build prereqs, buildable on my distro first (And probably binary compatible with most) |
| 22:28.53 | torpor | CM: "too much hacking, not enough development", aria: "doesn't work for developers who want stable environments to code for" |
| 22:29.11 | Aria | torpor: Right. "development" |
| 22:29.14 | roh | torpor and yes. the documentation clearly states that software is not done yet. if you did not read it and click on 'yes ive read it and want to order' i can imagine why youre pissed. |
| 22:29.20 | torpor | roh: i bet you did it through the oh so elite command line. |
| 22:29.28 | Writchie | in fairness to the OM team, the community is really just witnessing what amounts to pretty much the normal development cycle for a phone - two years. |
| 22:29.41 | Aria | Yeah |
| 22:29.47 | torpor | roh: i read it alright, but i assumed that 2 months afterwards, things would be stable. it'd be possible to get stuff done. |
| 22:29.51 | Writchie | to enjoy sausage, you may not want to see how its actually made |
| 22:30.00 | roh | torpor ex-actly. and why? because ive read the little avail documentation and do not whine around that things which are not done yet are not done yet. |
| 22:30.02 | Aria | Rrgh. Optimization flags to gcc got passed too far. I hate the gcc build system. |
| 22:30.09 | torpor | i have spun hours and hours just trying to get the build system under control where i can reliably create my own recipes. |
| 22:30.16 | Kero | aria, cm: OK, I think I'll take the "finished OE" (all i686 things provided? like arm-gcc) then :) |
| 22:30.29 | Aria | Kero: Sounds like a plan |
| 22:31.00 | Kero | there's loads of good stuff in OE. The main thing it lacks is docs for e.g. bitbake. |
| 22:31.13 | Aria | Heh, yeah. |
| 22:31.23 | Aria | And the assumptions in the build system (as they're found) |
| 22:31.29 | torpor | roh: i want to write software for a phone. i do not want to argue whether or not i'm reading the docs, am a FUD'der, or some other such political bullshit. |
| 22:31.29 | Aria | It barfs on my relatively new setup. |
| 22:31.34 | Aria | (gcc 4.2 and such) |
| 22:31.47 | torpor | whoever you openmoko people think you are, get someone on stabilizing the distro issues immediately or you are going to lose developers. |
| 22:31.54 | roh | about OE: ive not liked it at all when i started.. but as more i learn, i get to like the monster (it is one) .. but you can tame the beast or at least get it under control with a fast machine, enough ram and knowledge where to kick it and when |
| 22:32.07 | roh | torpor well.. what do you wanna write? |
| 22:32.10 | CM | Aria: I've been building almost daily with OE for over 6 months now |
| 22:32.12 | Kero | Aria: I have debian unstable, when I started, it broke on monotone 0.35 (couldn't upgrade the repo) |
| 22:32.13 | Aria | HEh, yeah. I'm missing two of those, roh |
| 22:32.22 | Kero | other than that, no issues. |
| 22:32.26 | CM | Aria: First for qemu, now for the Neo |
| 22:32.30 | torpor | roh: i want to write an interactive soundboard app that can be used to guide people through phone calls. |
| 22:32.36 | Aria | cm, Kero: Yeah, for me, it was perl-native failing to build for a while. Then something else, I've lost track. |
| 22:32.50 | torpor | i want to port my music apps to the phone and run them. |
| 22:32.51 | roh | torpor a what? |
| 22:33.05 | CM | Aria: Yes, there were a few, usually webkit-gtk. But lately I think it's been working ok :-) |
| 22:33.10 | torpor | i want to be able to at least make a call with it, or get GPS data from it. i do not want to have to wait for the gta02 to arrive to do so. |
| 22:33.13 | Kero | However, I've seen various packages break internally, on upgrades or something, that others kept reporting as working properly. |
| 22:33.17 | Aria | CM: Good. It just takes so long to try. |
| 22:33.24 | torpor | roh: soundboard app. push a GUI button, hear a sound. |
| 22:33.43 | Kero | try dropbear not starting, psplash obscuring vision, and X not starting either. |
| 22:33.45 | torpor | anyway, todays new build is under way. lets see if things are better once it completes. |
| 22:33.54 | Kero | that was quite a useless image :( |
| 22:33.55 | CM | Aria: Yes, it takes ages when you start from scratch. But once you've gotten it built once, it's quite qick to just make an update |
| 22:33.57 | anrp | has gps become more legal yet? |
| 22:34.04 | anrp | or is it still not-really-distributed |
| 22:34.15 | CM | anrp: Still waiting for the lawyers |
| 22:34.18 | Aria | CM: yeah. It's just that it's really hard to know which parts to remove to force a rebuild, in my experience. |
| 22:34.29 | roh | torpor sorry if i totally miss the usecase |
| 22:34.36 | torpor | how come the lawyers aren't in this channel, and how come they aren't being forced to be in this channel? |
| 22:34.42 | CM | Aria: Did you use rwhitby's makefike or just bitbake? |
| 22:34.49 | Kero | Aria: had to modify some rubu configuration, too, to let the bindings being built. |
| 22:34.57 | Aria | cm: with each, similar failures |
| 22:35.06 | Aria | cm: didn't like something in my distro, but no idea what |
| 22:35.07 | roh | torpor because laywers should be able to complete any work. that also why most of the coreteam is not here. |
| 22:35.08 | torpor | roh: someone calls, you have a set of samples you want to play them, you push buttons onscreen to play them, they hear the samples, they can send back dialtones, you see their dialtone decisions, etc. |
| 22:35.14 | Aria | cm: The errors were really vague as to what the problem is |
| 22:35.16 | torpor | it could be useful for tech support. for phone sex. and other things. |
| 22:35.38 | CM | rwhitby: Btw, how about adding a "make fetch-all" option the does the bitbake -r fetchall openmoko-devel-image? |
| 22:35.47 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 22:36.32 | CM | Aria: I noticed that too. A cross compile "sandbox" like that shouldn't mix in distro libs, but I know it happened in some instances |
| 22:36.39 | torpor | anyway i am now going to quit moaning. i'm sorry for FUD'ding up the channel. it is incredibly frustrating however to do a demo to a large group of interested hackers (as i did today here in vienna) and have to explain to them that nothing works because the distro itself is not stabilized and being governed. |
| 22:36.59 | Aria | CM: exactly. Or just the tools I have are too new to build the older tools that OE uses. Or something. |
| 22:37.32 | CM | Aria: I'm running unstable 64-bit gentoo so I hit most issues too I think |
| 22:37.41 | Aria | CM: Fun. i686 PLD here. |
| 22:37.55 | roh | torpor some things will change a bit in the future. oe will get snapshots for example. |
| 22:38.00 | Writchie | roh: rwhitby: it seems to me that a lot of the build problems are over native platform issues. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have a standard |
| 22:38.12 | anrp | off, in the mysterious future [..] |
| 22:38.20 | torpor | roh: there needs to be some weekly, regular official releases announced, that people can reliably and predictably build targets for .. |
| 22:38.29 | roh | where stable brances can be started.. atm oe has no such thing as a snapshot or stable release |
| 22:38.33 | torpor | otherwise i spend more of my time doing the actual job of a distro maintainer than coding for a working distro. |
| 22:38.35 | Writchie | build platoform (e.g. Ubuntu 7.04 or 7.10) to verify that the builds work. |
| 22:38.48 | roh | torpor weekly is just impossible |
| 22:38.52 | CM | torpor: mickeyl is working on an updated release now, but he said he'd like to have gps in it if possible |
| 22:39.05 | rwhitby | CM: you mean like "make prefetch-sources" ? |
| 22:39.12 | torpor | godamnit why is it so hard for openmoko and yet so easy for every single other linux distro under the sun? |
| 22:39.14 | roh | Writchie and ubuntu 704/debian stable is known to work well.. see the wiki. |
| 22:39.18 | CM | rwhitby: Heh, sorry, didn't see that one :-) |
| 22:39.40 | roh | suse, ancient fedora and some fucked up gentoo systems give problems with oe, but thats nothing to wonder about |
| 22:39.47 | CM | rwhitby: Was some guy, mb_ or so that wanted to fetch all and I didn |
| 22:39.53 | CM | t find it in the makefile |
| 22:40.06 | roh | all in total ive seen _much_ worse buildsystems |
| 22:40.20 | rwhitby | CM: whether that existing target works or not is another question ;-) |
| 22:40.21 | CM | Hmm.. Work in 5 hours, time for bed... |
| 22:40.32 | CM | rwhitby: Hehe.. I'll have to give it a try |
| 22:40.35 | rwhitby | it does -c fetch, not -c fetchall, for instance. |
| 22:40.56 | CM | I think fetchall was needed.. But I never did try |
| 22:41.58 | Aria | And gcc 4.2.2 to boot! |
| 22:42.11 | Aria | Aright, back to the cello while this compile goes. |
| 22:42.53 | roh | boy am i lucky when i got rid of mtn |
| 22:43.25 | CM | Hehe |
| 22:44.46 | roh | CM just did a upgrade from feisty to gutsy on my workstation and not mtn changed from 0.31 to 0.35 .. -> mtn db migrate ; mtn db regenerate_caches |
| 22:45.57 | Aria | torpor: it's hard because it's cross-compiled |
| 22:47.05 | *** join/#openmoko j0ma (n=milos@SE400.PPPoE-6796.sa.bih.net.ba) |
| 22:47.22 | torpor | ok burning now |
| 22:47.32 | torpor | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:47.46 | torpor | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:48.03 | torpor | hope this works and i can go back to app-coding instead of distro-/build-kit building .. |
| 22:48.39 | torpor | i guess i'll be real popular when i publish this virtual machine with everything working onboard so people don't have to do their own setup work just to catch up with the cool kids in openmoko land .. |
| 22:48.51 | roh | torpor well. you can always start developing native on your normal pc |
| 22:49.16 | torpor | roh: done. need to test. need to use on a real device. need actual, you know, GPS and cell phone devices. |
| 22:49.42 | roh | ah.. youre already so far |
| 22:50.01 | torpor | i've been coding for OE since it was just a hack for collie. |
| 22:50.19 | torpor | i might also add, complaing all the way as well. |
| 22:50.42 | Aria | Heh |
| 22:52.19 | torpor | okay here goes the boot .. |
| 22:53.54 | abraxa_ | torpor: It's already late. May I suggest you get a good night's sleep and continue tomorrow? |
| 22:54.13 | torpor | abraxa_: no. i have another demo tomorrow. i am hacking away on sunday night because todays demo sucked ass. |
| 22:54.22 | abraxa_ | Demo? |
| 22:54.23 | torpor | really, sucked ass. |
| 22:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:54.32 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-238-186.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:54.35 | torpor | yeah i'm trying to demo my app on a working openmoko-based device. duh. |
| 22:55.19 | abraxa_ | What problems are you encountering with it in particular? |
| 22:55.26 | torpor | no sound. |
| 22:55.39 | torpor | no space for the app without serious futzing around with filesystems. |
| 22:55.44 | abraxa_ | Did you try restoring one of the ALSA states? |
| 22:55.58 | torpor | but i just finished a fresh boot and now sound is working. |
| 22:56.07 | abraxa_ | Ah, good |
| 22:56.59 | roh | torpor when your app is only playing back sample snippets you should consider using pulseaudio as abstraction layer |
| 22:58.35 | roh | torpor btw.. your wordpress seems down |
| 23:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-31-11.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 23:05.07 | torpor | roh: wordpress? |
| 23:07.57 | *** join/#openmoko offray_ (n=offray@69.79.160.237) |
| 23:08.20 | offray_ | Hi all |
| 23:10.04 | abraxa_ | Hewwos |
| 23:10.42 | torpor | if the switch was made from fic-gta01 to neo1973 for the dist tag, shouldn't this : |
| 23:10.45 | torpor | root@fic-gta01:/etc/ipkg$ grep -i neo1973 *conf |
| 23:10.47 | torpor | produce some sorta different result? |
| 23:10.50 | torpor | arch.conf:arch neo1973 26 |
| 23:11.10 | torpor | i.e. snapshot-fic-gta01-feed.conf:src/gz snapshot-fic-gta01 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/ipk/fic-gta01 |
| 23:11.14 | torpor | updates-fic-gta01-feed.conf:src/gz updates-fic-gta01 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/fic-gta01 |
| 23:11.15 | offray_ | I'm trying to follow the instructions here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/es#Conectar_altavoz_interno_y_micr.C3.B3fono_en_llamadas_de_tel.C3.A9fono to get ssh access to Neo1973. I can ping 192.168.0.200 (not 202) and when I try to ssh to 192.168.0.200/202 I get " port 22: No route to host" no route to host message. |
| 23:11.22 | torpor | s/fic-gta01/neo1973/g? |
| 23:11.35 | offray_ | Any pointer to a solution? |
| 23:11.37 | torpor | offray_: make sure you set the gateway address. |
| 23:12.21 | abraxa_ | offray_: Does lsusb list the Neo? (it'll show no name, just the vendor:model ID) |
| 23:12.30 | offray_ | let me see |
| 23:13.30 | offray_ | I got this: Bus 002 Device 005: ID 1457:5122 |
| 23:13.39 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-235-226.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:14.13 | offray_ | and the usb mouse. The other ones are zeros |
| 23:15.09 | abraxa_ | Yup, that's the Neo. Does "ifconfig -a" show usb0? |
| 23:15.38 | offray_ | abraxa_: let me see |
| 23:15.51 | offray_ | abraxa_: yep here is: |
| 23:15.59 | offray_ | usb0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr C6:4E:8C:79:FD:48 |
| 23:16.00 | offray_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.43 | abraxa_ | Is it up? |
| 23:17.11 | *** join/#openmoko zblach (n=zblach@bas2-windsor12-1088707822.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:17.30 | roh | torpor zone79a.de |
| 23:18.40 | offray_ | abraxa_: I don't know. I get also: "UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1", need I to post the whole output? Can I paste it here (is 7 lines long) |
| 23:18.53 | abraxa_ | offray_: "UP" is all I wanted to know :) |
| 23:19.46 | anrp | maybe you've got some stray routes |
| 23:19.56 | offray_ | Last time I get access to openmoko without any problem, but now., following the same instructions I can't connect to it |
| 23:19.58 | abraxa_ | offray_: Do you have the cdc_ether and usbnet modules loaded? (lsmod) |
| 23:20.37 | torpor | roh: not my wordpress, probably the guy whose box i'm sharing |
| 23:20.44 | abraxa_ | offray_: Ah, of course you have. You have usb0. It's late ;) |
| 23:21.29 | offray_ | ;) |
| 23:22.39 | roh | torpor ;) |
| 23:23.43 | torpor | well okay now things seem to be working |
| 23:23.51 | torpor | tomorrow can be a positive demo and development day |
| 23:23.59 | torpor | assuming i don't do an update in the morning that is .. ;) |
| 23:24.27 | offray_ | torpor: where is the url of your wordpress? |
| 23:24.59 | torpor | i don't have one |
| 23:25.03 | torpor | its not my wordpress |
| 23:25.05 | torpor | i don't use that |
| 23:25.20 | anrp | he keeps denying it |
| 23:25.24 | anrp | on to him! |
| 23:25.38 | torpor | heh |
| 23:25.40 | torpor | i wish |
| 23:27.06 | offray_ | I don't know why Neo is not answering ssh but is responding ping without problem |
| 23:28.46 | torpor | check that the route are set up |
| 23:30.20 | offray_ | torpor: I ran this: ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 |
| 23:32.32 | anrp | still no worky?' |
| 23:32.32 | torpor | route add 192.168.0.202 192.168.0.200 |
| 23:32.42 | anrp | i'd guess that you already have a 192.168.0./24 route |
| 23:32.47 | anrp | maybe for a LAN |
| 23:32.49 | anrp | or something |
| 23:32.56 | offray_ | torpor: ok |
| 23:33.10 | anrp | a host specific route will override that D: |
| 23:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 23:35.10 | offray_ | making a route add I got: SIOCADDRT: No such device |
| 23:35.25 | anrp | try route add -host 192.168.0.202 usb0 |
| 23:35.26 | SpeedEvil | route add 192.168.0.202 usb0 |
| 23:37.10 | offray_ | Now I get: SIOCADDRT: File exists |
| 23:37.34 | offray_ | seems fine, but still not ssh success and now ping doesn't work |
| 23:37.55 | anrp | D:? |
| 23:37.59 | anrp | pastebin route -n |
| 23:38.02 | anrp | and maybe ifconfig -a |
| 23:38.03 | offray_ | ok |
| 23:40.25 | offray_ | here is the pastebin of route -n: |
| 23:40.26 | offray_ | http://pastebin.com/m505df02f |
| 23:40.28 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 23:43.21 | anrp | mm |
| 23:43.39 | anrp | don't see anything obviously wrong |
| 23:44.53 | rayvd | Barn times. |
| 23:44.55 | rayvd | 4 all. |
| 23:44.57 | roh | offray_ packetfilter somewhere? iptables |
| 23:45.09 | roh | iptables -L -n into pastebin please |
| 23:45.28 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@122-57-160-108.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:46.10 | *** join/#openmoko zblach (n=zblach@bas2-windsor12-1088707822.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:46.38 | offray_ | roh: ok |
| 23:47.11 | anrp | it would be one hell of a bizzare firewall that blocked outgoing ssh connections to a local network |
| 23:47.16 | anrp | ...but hey, who knows |
| 23:48.55 | roh | anrp ive seen people filtering away their asses on localhost.. so.. nothing is too far away to be plausible |
| 23:49.21 | offray_ | this is the url: http://pastebin.com/ma08bbcb |
| 23:49.39 | anrp | "this guy on 127.0.0.1 keeps trying to connect to my X server, wtf! b&!" |
| 23:49.45 | anrp | ...and that's the last you see of them D: |
| 23:50.07 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484D743.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:50.29 | abraxa_ | anrp: Maybe the Darwin Award of the online world? Removing their genes from the online gene pool voluntarily? ;) |
| 23:50.36 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis|livingro (n=sagacis@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 23:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-253-161.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:52.50 | offray_ | any problem with iptables? I don't know much about this. The true thing is that the last one I tried, just followed the instructions and it was done, and now I don't know what's wrong |
| 23:53.03 | anrp | nothing wrong there |
| 23:53.26 | roh | offray_ nope.. no filters set |
| 23:53.32 | anrp | as an almost last resort, tcpdump the interface in another terminal " |
| 23:53.43 | anrp | tcpdump -ni usb0 | tee output |
| 23:53.46 | anrp | then try ping, ssh |
| 23:53.50 | anrp | and then post the output? |
| 23:54.36 | anrp | you could also try the windows fix and reboot |
| 23:54.48 | offray_ | tcpdump command not found... give a minute I will install it |
| 23:55.22 | offray_ | je! the windows fix for everything(tm) WFFE ;) |
| 23:56.15 | anrp | nah rebooting is the mostly-fix |
| 23:56.18 | anrp | the wffe is reinstall |
