| 00:01.41 | sagacis_ | CoreDump: I did flash the u-boot about a week ago to get rid of the numerous annoyances (nand erase and bad terminal) |
| 00:02.05 | sagacis_ | Now, I can't boot without choosing "Boot" from the u-boot menu. |
| 00:02.29 | sagacis_ | When I do boot, the gsmd NEVER works (probably not u-boot), and the panel crashes all the time. |
| 00:02.43 | sagacis_ | The device is totally unusable with openmoko. |
| 00:02.59 | sagacis_ | no problems at all with qtopia. |
| 00:03.06 | CoreDump | as a phone it is, yes :\ |
| 00:03.27 | CoreDump | you might wanna try the qtopia image |
| 00:04.14 | sagacis_ | I used my neo as a pda-device for about a month with few problems. The phone even worked OK as long as I didn't leave the cell area. |
| 00:04.38 | sagacis_ | qtopia doesn't run the apps I want to run (web browser, my own apps, etc.) |
| 00:05.15 | CoreDump | then you are - for now - out if luck |
| 00:05.15 | sagacis_ | Without 850, I can't really use it as a phone around here, so I want to use it as a pda device until the firmware's fixed. |
| 00:05.54 | sagacis_ | Yup. However, I'm tempted by all the "I made a call" reports. That worked for me for weeks and weeks. Now gsmd won't even start. |
| 00:06.05 | CoreDump | heh |
| 00:06.28 | CoreDump | I only managed to make a call w/ the qtopia image |
| 00:07.10 | CoreDump | gotta go, good luck |
| 00:07.39 | sagacis_ | Thanks. Ciao. |
| 00:09.03 | Henryk | gsmd and panel-applets are totally unreliable, yes. about 33% success change, though apparently it likes to have series of lots of successes or failures in a row each time. probably something to do with the proper temperature, air pressure or planet constellations |
| 00:14.51 | sagacis_ | Henryk: Glad to hear I'm not just crazy. |
| 00:15.15 | sagacis_ | I notice my bootenv mtdparts differs from the one on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Environment |
| 00:15.23 | sagacis_ | That could be a problem, no? |
| 00:15.43 | Henryk | that's to be expected. the mtdparts are device specific |
| 00:16.14 | Henryk | sagacis: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks |
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| 00:18.34 | sagacis_ | OK, so I won't touch those. How about the lpj kernel argument? |
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| 00:26.15 | sagacis_ | Ok, it looks like I fixed my boot problem by redoing my bootargs_base. Must have fubar'd that earlier. |
| 00:27.05 | sagacis_ | Hey, I have full signal strength! Perhaps I should insert my sim card. :O |
| 00:28.24 | Writchie | sagacis_: how do you get signal strength without registering? |
| 00:28.45 | sagacis_ | Don't know, but that's what the panel applet is showing. |
| 00:29.15 | Writchie | i was never able to get any signal strenth or network info unless registered. |
| 00:29.33 | Writchie | although it might work where emergency only calls work |
| 00:29.58 | sagacis_ | I should only be seeing T? in the icon, I would think |
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| 00:30.51 | sagacis_ | "Netreg registration denied/Signal quality -55dBm/Searching for network" |
| 00:30.52 | sagacis_ | in a loop |
| 00:31.07 | sagacis_ | So my gsmd finally works and my sim card's in the other phone. |
| 00:31.33 | Writchie | sagacis_: hmmm you are getting this with no sim card in the phone? |
| 00:32.06 | Writchie | what network could it possibly be trying to register to with no sim card |
| 00:32.11 | sagacis_ | Yup. Back cover's off. I can clearly see the microsd card. |
| 00:32.49 | sagacis_ | "No current operator" |
| 00:33.21 | Writchie | hmmm: i could never get the modem to do anything real without a sim card in it. |
| 00:34.08 | Henryk | last time i checked it would pretend to be registered. i did not try to do an emergency call, obviously |
| 00:34.09 | Writchie | maybe i'll try again. I expected it to work emergency only or have some network info even with no sim card. |
| 00:34.37 | Writchie | Henryk: at the app level or gsmd level |
| 00:34.38 | Henryk | (it would even show registered when entering a wrong pin ... |
| 00:34.51 | Henryk | Writchie: panel applet and libnotify |
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| 00:35.13 | sagacis_ | I was looking at libgsmd-tool output |
| 00:35.52 | sagacis_ | Darn, "this client has just vanished" |
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| 00:37.05 | sagacis_ | all right. Gotta go. Fixing my boot seems to have fixed a number of other problems. I'll see how well it works tomorrow by using it all day. If only the battery lasted more than a few hours. |
| 00:37.13 | sagacis_ | or I had a way to charge it at work. |
| 00:37.30 | sagacis_ | panel crashed |
| 00:38.09 | Henryk | i tried to debug that crashing but it seems to be really nasty. no useable backtrace. something overwrting the stack or something |
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| 01:50.56 | sagacis_ | I restarted X and got two libmokogmsd restart comments. Only one process at the end |
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| 04:51.05 | spikebike | hrm |
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| 05:06.37 | xzcvczx | very busy channel |
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| 05:11.12 | roh | spikebike well. gta02v3 will never be sold, so that doesnt really matter ;) |
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| 05:24.01 | spikebike | roh oh? really? gta02v4? |
| 05:24.08 | spikebike | when? |
| 05:24.38 | roh | spikebike i dunno. |
| 05:24.49 | roh | well.. we all don't know yet. |
| 05:25.57 | roh | spikebike when we have a revision where all bugs are factored out and the tests proove that to us developers. |
| 05:27.43 | spikebike | ah, ok |
| 05:27.59 | spikebike | I just checked the wiki page and was going from that |
| 05:28.17 | spikebike | so a reasonable window for an openmoko for sale for normal folks would be? |
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| 05:29.09 | roh | well i do not know. when its done. |
| 05:29.32 | roh | there are just too many factors of uncertainty |
| 05:29.56 | spikebike | sure |
| 05:30.08 | spikebike | I understand the "when it's ready" kind of statement |
| 05:30.17 | spikebike | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 just led me to believe otherwise |
| 05:30.42 | ckuethe | yay for atmel/ublox gps |
| 05:30.47 | ckuethe | i like those |
| 05:31.14 | roh | heh.. its a wiki.. |
| 05:32.00 | CM | roh: Will you update that timeline? |
| 05:32.08 | roh | CM with what? |
| 05:32.13 | CM | v4? |
| 05:32.16 | roh | there is no timeline we released. |
| 05:32.26 | CM | Hehe, I know |
| 05:32.34 | xzcvczx | wow its almost impossible to find somewhere that sells SMD500's |
| 05:32.35 | CM | But at least there's a fourth revision |
| 05:33.09 | spikebike | and that the schedule has changed |
| 05:33.12 | roh | CM: there will be. there is not yet. |
| 05:33.18 | spikebike | even just milestones |
| 05:33.26 | CM | Ok |
| 05:33.34 | spikebike | kernel must be stable (done or to be done) |
| 05:33.39 | spikebike | gprs |
| 05:33.42 | roh | spikebike there is no schedule. there is a order of things happening, but the dates are total senseless |
| 05:33.43 | spikebike | stable voice calls |
| 05:34.06 | spikebike | a list of 10 things necessary before release or something |
| 05:34.18 | spikebike | basically just about anything to show progress irregardless of actual dates |
| 05:35.22 | roh | spikebike one thing is hw. software is the other (which i not spoke of yet, intentionally) |
| 05:36.50 | spikebike | so 10 things each ;-) |
| 05:37.06 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 05:39.57 | cb22 | CM, the news becomes like crack hey :) |
| 05:40.19 | CM | cb22: Hehe.. Oh yes... I need my fix! |
| 05:44.06 | CVirus | I can't wait that long :-S |
| 05:44.46 | cb22 | same here :( |
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| 06:07.16 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 06:46.31 | CM | Nice to see Harald in a good mood :D http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/10/19/#20071019-heading_back_to_germany |
| 06:47.52 | Agrajag- | yeah. his next post about linux on the airline is pretty interesting too |
| 06:49.00 | CM | Hehe, I know. I noticed something similar in our tram station displays here in Gothenburg. A via thing, 256mb and a flash disk ram running X :) |
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| 07:22.36 | CM | mickey|tw: Hello there :) |
| 07:22.40 | mickey|tw | hi ho |
| 07:23.03 | CM | They sent Harald back when you arrived or? ;) |
| 07:23.19 | mickey|tw | yes. we can't stand each other |
| 07:23.23 | mickey|tw | (joking) |
| 07:23.23 | CM | Hehe |
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| 07:24.52 | mickey|tw | it's much nicer than last time |
| 07:24.59 | mickey|tw | due to the weather and the new office |
| 07:25.43 | ScaredyCat | starts a build... |
| 07:26.24 | CM | Good to hear. Hope that helps with the internal disagreements too :) |
| 07:29.12 | mickey|tw | lets see... |
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| 07:29.22 | mickey|tw | today is not much happening anyways, since i |
| 07:29.24 | mickey|tw | m super-tired |
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| 07:31.37 | CM | mickey|tw: Was some discussions yesterday that removing the theming of OM speeds everything up tremendously |
| 07:32.00 | CM | gtk-theming that is |
| 07:37.28 | ScaredyCat | huge difference in speed |
| 07:38.00 | XorA | ScaredyCat: thats well known |
| 07:41.46 | ScaredyCat | completed a normal build... |
| 07:43.56 | ScaredyCat | completed a ScaredyCat build... |
| 07:46.14 | ScaredyCat | starts uploading images... |
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| 07:50.32 | ljp | ScaredyCat: have you gotten qtopia to build against gstreamer yet? |
| 07:51.00 | ScaredyCat | i did include it... |
| 07:51.13 | ScaredyCat | I don;t know if it worked properly yt :/ |
| 07:51.28 | ScaredyCat | (included witht he ExTRAS |
| 07:51.58 | ljp | i did, only gstreamer plugins weren't installed.. so I have to add those |
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| 07:55.22 | ScaredyCat | are you creating new snapshots with these fixes.. |
| 07:57.36 | ljp | havent added gstreamer yet |
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| 08:21.37 | ScaredyCat | builds some other apps... |
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| 08:29.13 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 08:32.12 | mbuf | after, "wget http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile; make setup", and before doing "bitbake -c fetchall openmoko-devel-image", what needs to be done? |
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| 08:34.00 | ScaredyCat | builds new package lists and uploads them... |
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| 08:40.21 | mickey|tw | CM: yes, i can imagine that the default theme speeds up rendering quite a bit, however it´s incredibly dull |
| 08:40.42 | CM | Sure is, look at the screencaps. |
| 08:41.00 | CM | Would be nice to be able to speed it up though :) |
| 08:41.02 | mbuf | ok, found it, "source setup-env" to source environment variables, so it can find bitbake |
| 08:41.06 | ScaredyCat | has built images and packages and uploaded them all... |
| 08:41.56 | CM | mbuf: We should send rwhitby a patch to the Makefile that adds a fetch-%s option :) |
| 08:43.24 | mbuf | CM, i am wondering if we can just download the update packages, and build them, rather than having to go to the Internet all the time; some people are still on dial-up |
| 08:43.45 | CM | mbuf: You mean just ipkg update? |
| 08:44.06 | mbuf | CM, no for setting up the build environment on the host |
| 08:44.26 | CM | Ah, ok. I think that's something they're working on already in OE |
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| 08:44.31 | CM | a build environment :) |
| 08:44.59 | LarstiQ | mickey|tw: you're doing a fresh build, or some other reason http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/ is empty? |
| 08:45.10 | mbuf | CM, i see |
| 08:45.27 | CM | LarstiQ: I wonder too why the buildhost have been down for a month |
| 08:45.37 | mickey|tw | LarstiQ: i guess this machine has been newly setup |
| 08:45.46 | mickey|tw | let me check whether the data is still there |
| 08:46.38 | mickey|tw | hmm, some buildhost problems, i can´t login |
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| 08:47.42 | LarstiQ | CM: oh, I've used it a dozen times within the last month |
| 08:47.46 | LarstiQ | CM: no problems then |
| 08:48.00 | CM | LarstiQ: Oh? Hmm.. |
| 08:48.47 | CM | Just didn't see any newer rootfs than Sept 17th, but I guess the wiki linked to the wrong dir |
| 08:48.58 | *** join/#openmoko thos (i=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
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| 08:51.23 | LarstiQ | CM: oh, I'm just upgrading ipkgs |
| 08:51.41 | CM | I'm doing that from ScaredyCat's repo |
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| 09:10.32 | fatal- | howdy. is anybody working with gsmd, regarding dbus interface? |
| 09:10.42 | fatal- | or, is one planned at the moment? |
| 09:11.19 | CM | fatal-: It's planned, but i don't know if or who is working on it |
| 09:12.24 | fatal- | it's atleast in theory possible, that I might be able to help with that issue. what I'm mostly suprised about the gsmd is that it does not use glib |
| 09:12.51 | fatal- | nor nobody apparently even considered using dbus instead of writing ones own wrapper |
| 09:12.55 | fatal- | for communication |
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| 09:13.59 | zecke | bipolar: hey |
| 09:14.34 | LarstiQ | fatal-: have you read http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/unbreaking-openmoko ? |
| 09:15.55 | CM | fatal-: Basically, talk to thos and robtaylor I guess :) |
| 09:16.18 | fatal- | LarstiQ: reading.. :) |
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| 09:17.47 | thos | fatal-: yes, Harald believes gsmd should depend on libc only |
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| 09:18.01 | thos | fatal-: so a d-bus interface built into gsmd is out of the question |
| 09:19.04 | abraxa_ | thos: What's the rationale for the mere dependency on libc? Any idea? |
| 09:19.04 | thos | abraxa_: no idea at all :-) |
| 09:19.06 | fatal- | I kind of understand that kind of approach, but it's kind of pointless, in my opinion |
| 09:19.10 | Batalyx | just a newbie here, so stupid question: can't the d-bus interface for gsmd then be built on top of the gsmd? probably that would be a bit complex... |
| 09:19.13 | fatal- | why make things hard just for the sake of it? :o |
| 09:19.38 | thos | fatal-: ask Harald :-P |
| 09:19.47 | thos | Batalyx: that is what I proposed |
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| 09:20.45 | LarstiQ | fatal-: it makes other things much easier. |
| 09:21.07 | Batalyx | thos: oh, yes... |
| 09:21.47 | fatal- | LarstiQ: what other things? |
| 09:21.52 | ScaredyCat | surely making it work properly is the goal... |
| 09:22.13 | ScaredyCat | setting the target as only depending on libc seems, well daft |
| 09:22.15 | CM | ScaredyCat: I hope it is, but I'm not convinced yet ;) |
| 09:24.24 | ScaredyCat | ehhe |
| 09:25.02 | ScaredyCat | there are really 2 dependancies there anyway... |
| 09:25.08 | ScaredyCat | libc and 'it actually working' |
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| 09:28.49 | fatal- | thos: if gsmd should depend on libc only, does he want to reimplement bindings for the dbus in it as well? :) |
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| 09:29.34 | thos | fatal-: he doesn't want to put any dbus in it at all |
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| 09:33.09 | fatal- | thos: does he totally oppose things such as dbus or does he think that the binding should be done by using the current way of communicating to the gsmd? |
| 09:33.42 | CM | What does qtopia use to communicate with the modem? |
| 09:34.00 | fatal- | dunno, haven't checked so |
| 09:34.04 | fatal- | far |
| 09:34.06 | thos | fatal-: he just doesn't want d-bus in gsmd |
| 09:34.24 | thos | fatal-: so the d-bus service will be written using libgsmd |
| 09:35.16 | fatal- | what point is having gsmd then at all? |
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| 09:35.26 | fatal- | ah |
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| 09:35.48 | fatal- | so, libgsmd is really the api |
| 09:36.05 | fatal- | I'm used to think there would be an library to access all the stuff in the modem |
| 09:36.12 | fatal- | so this whole thing is in reverse |
| 09:38.10 | fatal- | so, err, one has to have two daemons running. fun. |
| 09:38.16 | thos | fatal-: libgsmd offers an api to talk to gsmd |
| 09:38.18 | fatal- | gsmd _and_ dbus-gsmd |
| 09:38.30 | fatal- | which doesn't sound very efficient to me |
| 09:38.55 | thos | fatal-: yes, but my proposed PhoneKit will also do other stuff, like managing the communication history |
| 09:38.56 | fatal- | dbus is what usock stuff does |
| 09:39.33 | fatal- | lemme check the diagram again, personally I'd separate those functions... |
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| 09:40.02 | hrw | modem -> gsmd -> libgsmd -> dbus -> application? |
| 09:40.06 | thos | fatal-: the point is there does need to be some journal management process |
| 09:40.26 | thos | fatal-: and you need to do it before the applications get there |
| 09:41.22 | thos | fatal-: personally I would much prefer if we just had one daemon too, but unless you fork or re-write gsmd it isn't going to happen |
| 09:41.23 | fatal- | thos: the diagram lists phonekit and mokojournal as separate entities |
| 09:41.39 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 09:41.41 | thos | fatal-: mokojournal is a library |
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| 09:42.08 | thos | fatal-: it's actually just a convenience layer to e-d-s anyway |
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| 09:42.43 | guaqua | i think what it really boils down to is what's the best way of using the journaling from a single application |
| 09:43.05 | thos | guaqua: we already have a way of using the journal from a single application |
| 09:43.24 | thos | guaqua: what is important is making sure there is a certain amount of consistency |
| 09:43.45 | guaqua | there is consistency if the devs see it appropriate |
| 09:43.50 | guaqua | at least that's what i gather |
| 09:44.25 | guaqua | framework hell can be created |
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| 09:51.10 | mudyc | thos: about the PhoneKit diagram: what does the arrow between GSMD and PhoneKit present? |
| 09:53.04 | mudyc | thos: is it the libgsmd over the named unix socket? |
| 09:53.16 | robster | mudyc: interaction over libgsmd (possibly via the gobject abstraction layer) |
| 09:54.43 | robtaylor | At the last lips meating there seemed quite a bit of interest in a fd.o standard dbus interface for talking to gsm stacks |
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| 09:55.54 | robtaylor | I actually think its a probable security risk to be talking AT commands to the gsmd |
| 09:57.09 | mudyc | at least there are some security considerations done in the implementation of dbus (system bus) |
| 09:57.13 | hrw | robtaylor: but until gsm stack lack functions for some stuff sending AT command and parsing result in application is solution |
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| 09:57.26 | thos | robtaylor: well, seeing as anything could kill gsmd and talk to the modem with AT commands anyway, that isn't really a valid point |
| 09:57.39 | thos | you'd need to do security at the kernel level |
| 09:57.53 | robtaylor | thos: yeah, i was going to say its not too relevent on this hardware |
| 09:58.37 | robtaylor | thos: that was more from a single core/gsm on dsp discussion |
| 09:59.12 | robtaylor | thos: does everything run as root on OM atm? |
| 10:00.04 | CM | robtaylor: Looks like it |
| 10:00.08 | robtaylor | niiice |
| 10:00.51 | sannes | Does the hardware not have memory protection and virtual memory? |
| 10:01.01 | mudyc | thos: the device access can be restricted |
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| 10:03.10 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@office.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 10:04.15 | zecke | hi raster |
| 10:04.34 | zecke | mickey|tw: are you happy now? |
| 10:04.49 | raster | moo |
| 10:05.02 | zecke | how is the office like? |
| 10:05.07 | florian | hi all |
| 10:07.28 | mickey|tw | zecke: happy? no way. the office is cool though |
| 10:08.19 | mickey|tw | and the apartment where the europeans are staying has an awesome view |
| 10:10.00 | pvanhoof | mickey|tw, arrived in tw I see? You had a good flight? |
| 10:11.08 | mickey|tw | pvanhoof: apart from me not being able to sleep during any flight, it was nice and quiet |
| 10:11.17 | mickey|tw | which means i´m _really_ tired by now |
| 10:11.26 | pvanhoof | :D |
| 10:11.28 | pvanhoof | go sleep then! |
| 10:11.32 | mickey|tw | nah |
| 10:11.36 | pvanhoof | or drink some redbul |
| 10:12.53 | raster | must... acclimatise... to.... timezone.... |
| 10:13.49 | pvanhoof | mickey|tw, no sleep? going strong? :) |
| 10:14.02 | mickey|tw | trying to |
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| 10:14.07 | mickey|tw | just what raster says |
| 10:14.09 | pvanhoof | mickey|tw, I was up until 6 O' clock, implementing QRESYNC in tinymail, and awake at 11 |
| 10:14.19 | mickey|tw | can´t risk to make my timezone up-side-down |
| 10:14.20 | pvanhoof | For some reason .. my body wanted to be awake |
| 10:14.23 | mickey|tw | pvanhoof: cool |
| 10:14.27 | mickey|tw | pvanhoof: does it work now? |
| 10:14.33 | pvanhoof | yep, very good even |
| 10:14.52 | pvanhoof | turner.dave.cridland.net |
| 10:14.57 | pvanhoof | pvanhoof / qresync |
| 10:15.04 | pvanhoof | don't tell dave I gave everybody that login :) |
| 10:15.33 | pvanhoof | First time the demoui will ask for a normal condstore select (compile tinymail with -DDEBUG in your cflags, you'll see the IMAP traffic) |
| 10:15.40 | pvanhoof | after that it does qresync ones |
| 10:15.54 | pvanhoof | complete folder synchronizations in one tcp/ip frame :D |
| 10:16.06 | pvanhoof | that's the thing that takes evolution so much time each time you click a folder :) |
| 10:16.29 | pvanhoof | wireshark it :) |
| 10:16.35 | mickey|tw | hmm, so you´re deep inside enhancing mail standards now |
| 10:16.58 | pvanhoof | live is good 12 meter under imap |
| 10:17.14 | pvanhoof | or is it 'life'? |
| 10:17.43 | pvanhoof | yes, with an f :) |
| 10:19.32 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: you mean read/undread status? |
| 10:19.58 | pvanhoof | no flags and expunges |
| 10:20.08 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 10:20.09 | pvanhoof | and new messages's summary items |
| 10:20.13 | SpeedEvil | Nice |
| 10:20.29 | pvanhoof | Problem with unread status is deleted messages that are unseen |
| 10:20.36 | pvanhoof | they'll be counted as unread |
| 10:20.41 | pvanhoof | With STATUS |
| 10:21.19 | pvanhoof | so you want to do ... |
| 10:21.21 | pvanhoof | 01 SELECT INBOX\r\n |
| 10:21.21 | pvanhoof | 02 SEARCH RETURN (COUNT) UNDELETED UNSEEN\r\n |
| 10:21.31 | pvanhoof | But that's ESEARCH, very few imap servers have that already |
| 10:21.45 | pvanhoof | And you need to select each folder, which is quite expensive on an imap server |
| 10:22.43 | pvanhoof | Of course, once you've done a qresync or a condstore select, you have all the flags and you can count that number yourself from your local caches |
| 10:23.06 | pvanhoof | but we're not going to do that for all folders upon startup, that would consume loads of bandwidth each time |
| 10:23.29 | SpeedEvil | All you need to do now is an AI to extract the meaningful content of emails, stripped of extra words. |
| 10:23.43 | pvanhoof | :) |
| 10:24.33 | pvanhoof | This ubuntu mobile guy has an imap account with each and every ubuntu project represented by a folder |
| 10:24.42 | pvanhoof | that's something cute to test :) |
| 10:24.44 | SpeedEvil | I think a bundle of proxy servers customised for OM would actually be a good plan. |
| 10:24.48 | pvanhoof | +10,000 folders :) |
| 10:25.05 | pvanhoof | oh yes, mbox is nice for that |
| 10:25.18 | SpeedEvil | Caching web-proxy that crunches all data, mail proxy, ... |
| 10:25.19 | pvanhoof | it proxies POP3 and other IMAP servers transparently |
| 10:25.41 | SpeedEvil | backups, ID server, ... |
| 10:25.50 | pvanhoof | it's just a small setting, and you can add a bunch of those 'remote servers' to an mbox |
| 10:26.22 | pvanhoof | For example GMail over IMAP in a transparent way, for all your customers :) |
| 10:26.39 | Stephmw | now that sounds nice |
| 10:26.46 | SpeedEvil | That sort of thing, also web compression - you can do insane levels of compression if you do it right. |
| 10:27.07 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, IMAP has COMPRESS and TLS has compression too |
| 10:27.45 | pvanhoof | So for email, to translate it to http, sounds like adding overhead to me :) (and a lot) |
| 10:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 10:28.55 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: compress isn't quite what I was meaning. In the mail context it'd be that you know what email you sent, the server knows you have a copy of that email, so you can say 'here he quotes lines 3-20' in several bytes, rather than compressing it on incoming mails naively. |
| 10:28.59 | pvanhoof | I mean, we're trying to optimize here by packing multiple replies of multiple imap commands into one tcp/ip frame, converting it to something like SOAP would add 800% of data and each command would become a new roundtrip? :p |
| 10:29.35 | pvanhoof | oh I see |
| 10:29.50 | pvanhoof | hmm, that'd be hard and racy though |
| 10:29.56 | SpeedEvil | For webpages, this is lots better. Ebay.com, compressed goes to 15K. If you compress the differnences between last time you loaded it and now, it goes to under 0.5K |
| 10:30.21 | SpeedEvil | (typically) |
| 10:30.37 | fatal- | thos, had a lunch.. anyhow, is the messaging side somehow already thought out? where will the messages be stored? apparently the gsmd support the sim storage but that's not sufficient pratically for anything |
| 10:30.54 | pvanhoof | note that 0.5 K is a lot for email data (that is not the email itself) |
| 10:31.17 | thos | fatal-: sms messages will be stored in the journal |
| 10:31.28 | pvanhoof | And with IDLE and NOTIFY you already get only the differences, SpeedEvil |
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| 10:31.39 | pvanhoof | And condstore too, of course |
| 10:31.55 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: Yes, I know. I'm just meaning for webpages. Ebay.com changes often, so only downloading new versions doesn't help. Only comparing diffs. |
| 10:31.58 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, with condstore you store a sequence number on each folder, and you give that to the imap server |
| 10:32.04 | pvanhoof | oh yes, for webpages indeed |
| 10:32.07 | fatal- | thos: what's the actual storage of the journal? |
| 10:32.18 | pvanhoof | anyway, based on that sequence number you get only the differences back |
| 10:32.24 | pvanhoof | and it gives you a new sequence number |
| 10:32.28 | thos | fatal-: e-d-s, i.e. ical |
| 10:32.48 | pvanhoof | with compress, you can't make it much smaller. You do need to get the differences somehow right? :) |
| 10:32.54 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: nice. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:Proxy is the basic outline of the web thingy. |
| 10:33.03 | pvanhoof | taking a look |
| 10:33.26 | SpeedEvil | I need to flesh that out and add detailed measurements. |
| 10:33.33 | pvanhoof | right, I would recommend openmoko to take a look at mbox if they would want to also proxy email data efficiently |
| 10:33.50 | fatal- | thos: how "heavy" is the e-d-s in practice? |
| 10:34.19 | pvanhoof | because indeed, POP3 is really unefficient compared to a modern IMAP server, and will consume a lot more bandwidth |
| 10:34.47 | thos | fatal-: you'll have to define "heavy" |
| 10:35.04 | fatal- | ah, it seems to have an e-e-d-s version :) |
| 10:35.54 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, is openmoko as an organization planning to deploy such servers? |
| 10:36.00 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: dunno |
| 10:36.06 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: it was an idea. |
| 10:36.08 | pvanhoof | Well it's not a bad idea |
| 10:36.22 | pvanhoof | It's just an administrative cost too |
| 10:36.23 | SpeedEvil | It seems to enable interesting things. |
| 10:36.57 | SpeedEvil | As rather than having each mail/web/... client try to do its own thing, one protocol can be developed to. |
| 10:37.01 | pvanhoof | Well, it's a bit of a privacy concern to me too. so it would have to be optional |
| 10:37.28 | SpeedEvil | My idea - though I haven't expanded on this - was basically for the servers to be an opensource pack. |
| 10:37.35 | fatal- | thos: less than 54kg :) |
| 10:37.36 | pvanhoof | Ah but for mail, the latest imap improvements are really sufficient |
| 10:37.42 | mjr | pvanhoof, obviously you'd run your own proxy were you concerned about that |
| 10:37.43 | SpeedEvil | You compile it and host it wherever you like. |
| 10:37.51 | pvanhoof | mjr, right |
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| 10:38.19 | SpeedEvil | It's just that one server farm (for a small fee) would have benefits in terms of ease of use. |
| 10:38.33 | mjr | indeed |
| 10:38.56 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, though, one protocol is not a good idea. Each existing protocol as its own specific reason why it's good wat what it does |
| 10:39.01 | SpeedEvil | And possibly security - do it over a VPN and you can't be snooped over GPRS |
| 10:39.05 | mjr | it wouldn't even have that much bandwidth requirements per user for obvious reasons :] |
| 10:39.10 | pvanhoof | Especially once we start talking about gprs and roundtrips become deadly expensive in time |
| 10:39.11 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: I mean a suite of protocols. |
| 10:39.21 | pvanhoof | Right |
| 10:39.22 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: not jam everything into one. |
| 10:39.55 | pvanhoof | IMAP4 Lemonade with condstore, qresync, binary, NOTIFY, TLS (with compression) and optionally compress |
| 10:40.09 | SpeedEvil | But concentrating development on one mail, web, backup, contacts, ... protocol. |
| 10:40.22 | SpeedEvil | Rather than fragmenting. |
| 10:40.24 | pvanhoof | That will even work with old email clients, and modern ones will be blazing fast |
| 10:41.42 | pvanhoof | And you get push-email (notify) in such a way that you can make it not drain your battery because your gprs unit can be shut down for ~20 minutes (an imap server wont disconnect you if there's 20 minutes of inactivity) |
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| 10:42.24 | SpeedEvil | GPRS doesn't actually use that much power with an idle link IIRC |
| 10:42.41 | SpeedEvil | I dunno if there is any prospect of wake on packet though. |
| 10:44.32 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 10:44.37 | pvanhoof | Writchie told me yesterday it already does that |
| 10:45.55 | SpeedEvil | I mean CPU wake on packet |
| 10:46.16 | SpeedEvil | With the thing in suspend-RAM until it gets a packet |
| 10:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko thos (i=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 10:47.32 | pvanhoof | aha right |
| 10:47.41 | ewon | morning folks |
| 10:48.11 | pvanhoof | Well my current idea is to simply keep the gprs connection alive and hope that the hardware is intelligent enough to shut it down as soon as it's not receiving packets for a certain amount of time |
| 10:48.34 | pvanhoof | and then do a wake up (a NOOP on IMAP) each 20th minute, else the IMAP server will disconnect you |
| 10:49.01 | XorA | pvanhoof: thats probably a good plan, GPRS link on my HTC Wizard will idle for days without noticble battery life shortening |
| 10:49.10 | pvanhoof | and set the server's session's state in IDLE or deal with NOTIFY |
| 10:49.26 | pvanhoof | XorA, ok |
| 10:49.37 | XorA | pvanhoof: thats Win Mobile of course |
| 10:49.55 | pvanhoof | The question of course is whether openmoko's hardware will act like this too :) |
| 10:50.13 | pvanhoof | because otherwise it's not a good idea for the email application to keep the connection alive |
| 10:51.42 | SpeedEvil | Can the server notify you on new mail? |
| 10:52.01 | pvanhoof | that's IDLE and NOTIFY |
| 10:52.13 | pvanhoof | so the server will typically wait for changes to pack them together |
| 10:52.32 | SpeedEvil | I mean if you want, can you get a packet as new email arrives? |
| 10:52.38 | pvanhoof | and then when it thinks your client wants to know about it, it'll just unsolicited send it to you |
| 10:52.48 | pvanhoof | yes it will send you an EXISTS line |
| 10:53.12 | pvanhoof | so you know you have say 5 mails, it will send you a "* 6 EXISTS" |
| 10:53.17 | SpeedEvil | If wake on incoming GPRS packet works, that would be nice. |
| 10:53.24 | pvanhoof | yep |
| 10:53.38 | SpeedEvil | It resumes, gets the packet, vibrates, goes to sleep |
| 10:53.45 | pvanhoof | and for deletes it depends: QRESYNC then you get "* VANISHED 1:30,2:1" |
| 10:53.46 | SpeedEvil | (if you want it to) |
| 10:53.56 | CM | Roaming charges for gprs can be rediculous |
| 10:54.01 | pvanhoof | and with non-qresync you get : for each deleted e-mail "* 1 EXPUNGE" |
| 10:54.07 | SpeedEvil | And wakes every 20 min for a couple of seconds to ping the server |
| 10:54.25 | pvanhoof | CM, yes there are of course concerns that I share with you :) |
| 10:54.47 | pvanhoof | CM, but that's why a modern IMAP server as proxy server is interesting |
| 10:55.18 | pvanhoof | CM, see a QRESYNC capable one, sends you info that an old IMAP one sends in lots of frames, in one frame |
| 10:55.26 | CM | SpeedEvil: Also, that proxy thing you mention sounds a bit like what OperaMini does |
| 10:55.32 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 10:55.46 | pvanhoof | CM, that's because you only have to send one request, so it can pack data together (it doesn't need to wait for a new request coming from you) |
| 10:55.50 | SpeedEvil | CM: I haven't found details of that protocol or in detail server. |
| 10:55.59 | pvanhoof | Whereas if you look at POP3, you have to ask for each and every Email |
| 10:56.19 | CM | What about attatchments? |
| 10:56.21 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, you don't need to ping the server |
| 10:56.45 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: to tell it you're alive and don't want it to disconnect you |
| 10:56.49 | pvanhoof | CM, they'll be retrieved on demand (although this is not the case, you can right now with tny either retrieve just the text parts or all of the email) |
| 10:56.58 | CM | Ok |
| 10:57.00 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, yes, that you do need to do indeed |
| 10:57.17 | pvanhoof | CM, I'm working on on-demand retrieving the parts |
| 10:57.23 | CM | Cool :) |
| 10:57.26 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: but only wakeup 2s/20min isn't bad. |
| 10:57.35 | SpeedEvil | If it gives you instant email. |
| 10:57.43 | pvanhoof | Yep |
| 10:58.06 | pvanhoof | And you can still develop something that listens for an SMS too |
| 10:58.16 | pvanhoof | to wake up and invoke a synchronization |
| 10:59.05 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, the "instant" depends a little bit on the imap server, though |
| 10:59.10 | pvanhoof | Most imap servers group IDLE events together |
| 10:59.11 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 10:59.13 | CM | I've used gmail on my W610, and I can send/recieve a lot of emails in a few kb |
| 10:59.41 | pvanhoof | GMail is POP3 (unless you used the webclient), so it's definitely not efficient :) |
| 10:59.57 | pvanhoof | And Kb is not the most important thing for GPRS, roundtrips are |
| 11:00.09 | CM | Does their client use pop3 too? |
| 11:00.37 | pvanhoof | I can imagine it's some sort of glorified browser |
| 11:01.07 | mjr | imap's async nature allows for some roundtrip optimizing, happily |
| 11:01.19 | pvanhoof | mjr, yep (pipelining) |
| 11:02.04 | pvanhoof | Dave's Polymer is an experimental e-mail client that heavily uses pipelining |
| 11:02.19 | pvanhoof | Regretfully it's so experimental that you really want a very modern IMAP server for it :) |
| 11:06.24 | raster | if only imap wasn't so slow to my mailserver... |
| 11:07.50 | pvanhoof | Install a better one? :) |
| 11:08.32 | raster | well no |
| 11:08.39 | raster | its just 220ms round-trip time to there |
| 11:09.00 | pvanhoof | so you are a perfect candidate for an imap server that has qresync and an email client that implements it |
| 11:09.04 | pvanhoof | :) |
| 11:09.17 | raster | wellmy problem is i am moving my folders TO imap |
| 11:09.18 | raster | from local |
| 11:09.21 | pvanhoof | 220ms is fast, actually, if you look at typical gprs connections |
| 11:09.25 | raster | and soem ofthem have 1000's of mails |
| 11:09.29 | raster | so thats goingto... take a while |
| 11:09.32 | mjr | 220ms in fact doesn't sound like gprs at all |
| 11:09.38 | raster | it's not |
| 11:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko sannes (i=ace@har.sagt.no) |
| 11:10.10 | pvanhoof | raster, when you send large things, roundtrip time is less important though |
| 11:10.20 | pvanhoof | roundtrip is only when there's a lot of interactivity |
| 11:10.21 | raster | yeah |
| 11:10.21 | raster | i know |
| 11:10.26 | raster | its just a... transitional phase thing |
| 11:10.58 | pvanhoof | like, it'll take some time before a new Email starts being sent |
| 11:11.03 | pvanhoof | but then it'll be fast |
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| 11:28.54 | *** join/#openmoko mb (n=mb@host231-86-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:29.47 | mb | hi, can I install openmoko on my htc tytn II (kaiser)? how? I can't find anything on the net |
| 11:29.57 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03mickey * r3226 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokopanelui2/ (ChangeLog libmokopanelui/moko-panel-applet.c): libmokopanelui2: try to workaround scaling image bug |
| 11:33.23 | CM | mb: Don't think anyone has done that yet, you could be first :) |
| 11:35.46 | mb | CM: thanks man :D you're answer is the solution to my problem :D I'm joking; however I 'hopped' that someone already did that :/ |
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| 11:37.35 | CM | mb: Maybe the people in #oe know more. Maybe using an ångström build |
| 11:38.57 | mb | CM: thanks dude, I'm running to ask there |
| 11:39.46 | CVirus | When is FIC announcing it's new OpenMoko based devices ?! |
| 11:40.42 | *** join/#openmoko derFrank_ (n=Frank@Pb1c1.p.pppool.de) |
| 11:42.55 | CM | CVirus: You mean the HXD8? |
| 11:43.29 | CVirus | CM: cool ... let me check |
| 11:43.34 | CM | That was supposed to be when the GTA02 is out, I think |
| 11:43.41 | CM | CVirus: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 |
| 11:44.52 | CVirus | CM: any other devices ? |
| 11:45.05 | CM | Not that I've heard about.. |
| 11:45.36 | CM | CVirus: But I'd like something looking like the N810 and using this chip: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8838596703.html |
| 11:47.14 | CVirus | if only the N810 had a GSM chipset |
| 11:47.38 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 11:48.37 | CM | Or umts :) |
| 11:49.09 | CVirus | maybe |
| 11:49.23 | CVirus | and running OpenMoko instead of Maemo |
| 11:49.23 | CVirus | :-p |
| 11:52.32 | xkr47 | :) |
| 11:55.09 | buz | but we still dont know much about hxd8 do we? |
| 11:55.32 | buz | no word about formfactor etc |
| 11:57.57 | CM | Nothing.. |
| 11:58.09 | guaqua | it could be a space shuttle for what we know for sure, with a really bad camera for a space shuttle |
| 11:58.18 | CM | Haven't seen much kernel patches or so lately either that refer to it |
| 11:58.20 | buz | the camera is really bad for just about anything |
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| 12:32.48 | pjz | counter |
| 12:32.53 | pjz | !counter |
| 12:33.04 | CM | aloril's triggers are all gone :/ |
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| 12:33.10 | pjz | :( |
| 12:33.15 | SpeedEvil | December sometime. Maybe. |
| 12:33.15 | CM | not even faq? or wiki? works |
| 12:33.32 | SpeedEvil | CM see: http://wiki.openmoko.com/wiki/FAQ |
| 12:33.57 | CM | faq? |
| 12:34.03 | CM | Hmm.. |
| 12:34.05 | CM | ;) |
| 12:34.27 | pjz | the neo's going to be obsolete before it's even released |
| 12:34.51 | buz | it is released |
| 12:34.54 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps. |
| 12:35.08 | SpeedEvil | In some ways, FIC doesn't care if the Neo fails. |
| 12:35.24 | SpeedEvil | What OM means is that they have a choice for their next phone. |
| 12:35.25 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=GZBA4143@AMontsouris-153-1-102-137.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:35.42 | pjz | right, in some ways they've already done the job they set out to do just by forcing everyone else to open up their phone platforms more. |
| 12:35.46 | guaqua | neo is a development platform |
| 12:35.50 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 12:35.55 | guaqua | that too |
| 12:36.17 | SpeedEvil | But if the platform fails, they don't really care, as long as they have equal access to the OM platform as others do. |
| 12:36.27 | SpeedEvil | s/platform/neo1973/ |
| 12:36.59 | SpeedEvil | For their next phone, where all they have to do is some theming work for the new screen size, and the hardware drivers. |
| 12:37.13 | SpeedEvil | Rather than writing a whole new OS before being able to sell it to customers. |
| 12:37.28 | guaqua | i'm guessing fic has had an os before |
| 12:37.34 | SpeedEvil | WinCE |
| 12:37.48 | guaqua | they've only done wince phones before? |
| 12:37.52 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@208.118.160.90) |
| 12:37.54 | SpeedEvil | Not that. |
| 12:38.14 | SpeedEvil | But they have previously done (AIUI) largely others OSs |
| 12:38.20 | SpeedEvil | for which they need to pay licenses. |
| 12:39.27 | SpeedEvil | Or as a subcontractor, for which the lead company writes the OS. |
| 12:39.38 | guaqua | yes |
| 12:40.03 | SpeedEvil | For them going to a 'PC' model - where they just make hardware and sell it to customers is a big plus. |
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| 13:08.25 | hrw | SpeedEvil: does gllin gave any information nevermind if he has gpsfix or not? |
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| 13:54.26 | CM | Heh, the oxford dictionary have some interesting additions.. http://www.oed.com/bbcwords/dog-bollocks-new.html |
| 13:57.24 | ScaredyCat | that's in correct... |
| 13:57.30 | ScaredyCat | it's : |
| 13:57.39 | ScaredyCat | dog's bollocks |
| 13:57.47 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@140.77.129.105) |
| 13:58.02 | ScaredyCat | the link i mena |
| 13:58.20 | ScaredyCat | dog bollocks are what dogs have, well some aynway |
| 13:59.14 | SpeedEvil | Under 50% |
| 13:59.35 | CM | SpeedEvil: Besserwisser.. ;) |
| 13:59.54 | CM | Just heard that word used today in a podcast |
| 13:59.56 | zash | Messershmith! |
| 14:00.05 | zash | ISH BIN EIN KARTOFFEL! |
| 14:00.18 | CM | Might have been Mark Shuttleworth who used it even. :) |
| 14:01.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3227 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-appearance/ (16 files in 2 dirs): * Add new openmoko-appearance application |
| 14:02.01 | ScaredyCat | CM: you said it to me before, shuttleworth is copying you! |
| 14:02.20 | ScaredyCat | je suis un rock star... |
| 14:02.37 | ScaredyCat | j'habite la |
| 14:04.07 | ScaredyCat | blogtastic |
| 14:04.13 | CM | Hehe |
| 14:04.29 | CM | Also learned what alfresco meant today |
| 14:06.35 | CM | zash: Eaten any of this this year? http://tinyurl.com/2746ak |
| 14:08.43 | ScaredyCat | testate agents use 'alfresco' a lot in the uk ... uk estate agents are retards |
| 14:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:10.02 | abraxa_ | Hmm... I wonder what the appearance application is for... |
| 14:10.40 | ScaredyCat | do't do it |
| 14:10.47 | ScaredyCat | you'll regret it |
| 14:11.11 | ewon | heh |
| 14:13.07 | thos | abraxa_: :-) |
| 14:13.18 | thos | abraxa_: for changing colours and other appearance settings |
| 14:13.26 | thos | abraxa_: and just for a bit of fun :-) |
| 14:14.12 | thos | i'm hoping it's also a good example application for people wanting to learn how to program OpenMoko/GTK+ |
| 14:14.49 | abraxa_ | thos: Happen to have a binary laying around that I could check out? |
| 14:15.27 | thos | abraxa_: not yet, I just asked XorA to create a bb file |
| 14:15.58 | abraxa_ | Ohh, okay - I love how we now have someone to bug about OE affairs :) |
| 14:16.18 | abraxa_ | (I bet he has no idea what he got himself into there ;D) |
| 14:16.24 | thos | well, it's really that i'm too lazy to copy one and write it up now |
| 14:16.31 | thos | i spent all day coding damnit! |
| 14:17.27 | thos | sloccount says it should have taken me 2 years to write what i've done today! |
| 14:18.26 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 14:18.28 | CM | thos: Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight. - Bill Gates |
| 14:18.30 | abraxa_ | Gotta love those things |
| 14:18.36 | thos | actually oops |
| 14:18.38 | thos | that's wrong |
| 14:18.39 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M9fdd.m.pppool.de) |
| 14:18.39 | thos | haha |
| 14:18.40 | CM | (mmeeks blog today) |
| 14:19.09 | thos | I guess autogenerated code shouldn't really count ;-) |
| 14:19.39 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 14:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 14:23.31 | abraxa_ | CM: I hate you for posting the tinyurl link. |
| 14:23.55 | CM | abraxa_: Why? Distracting? |
| 14:23.55 | abraxa_ | My curiosity made me check out the other "foods" presented. |
| 14:23.58 | abraxa_ | I regret it. |
| 14:24.00 | abraxa_ | xP |
| 14:24.00 | CM | Surströmming is good.. |
| 14:25.43 | jeddy3 | s/to/too/ |
| 14:26.03 | zash | CM: nä, palla gammal rutten fisk på burk |
| 14:26.07 | abraxa_ | I really could never ever eats bugs. |
| 14:26.09 | abraxa_ | NO way. |
| 14:28.12 | Vegar | wtf? swedish? |
| 14:28.13 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 14:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 14:28.20 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: I'll be dead by then. I'm too thin :) |
| 14:28.48 | gi-el | heh, surstromming |
| 14:28.54 | gi-el | my father used to eat that |
| 14:29.32 | _buz | oh neat, 8G microsd available for pre order |
| 14:29.51 | _buz | for roughly 65EUR |
| 14:30.11 | SpeedEvil | Insane. |
| 14:30.37 | SpeedEvil | I'm surprised that nobodies produced microSD-RAID. |
| 14:31.04 | _buz | oh even comes with an sdhc reader |
| 14:31.09 | viq | SpeedEvil: I'm not sure it quallifies yet for the I part ;) |
| 14:31.09 | SpeedEvil | I mean - 15*microSD = fit in a 20mm cube and provide 80GB |
| 14:31.14 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 14:31.26 | zash | ubuntu7.10 is sweet |
| 14:31.32 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 14:31.32 | viq | _buz: where? |
| 14:31.35 | SpeedEvil | oh? |
| 14:31.40 | viq | and will OpenMoko support something that large? |
| 14:31.49 | _buz | should support |
| 14:31.51 | _buz | switzerland |
| 14:32.09 | _buz | they explicitely state not to have stock though |
| 14:32.13 | viq | heh |
| 14:32.27 | viq | hmm, same continent... ;) |
| 14:32.38 | SpeedEvil | viq: Depends - they are I, compared to historical prices of storage. |
| 14:33.03 | _buz | microsd raid5 hehehehe |
| 14:33.44 | madwoota | theres a co doin that |
| 14:34.01 | madwoota | multi channel flash - like, 180 channels or something |
| 14:34.05 | SpeedEvil | That would be ballpark be 120G for the same price as 65M or so when I first got a computer. |
| 14:34.11 | SpeedEvil | And rather smaller. |
| 14:34.25 | SpeedEvil | The ST225R could be heard booting from the other end of the house. |
| 14:34.28 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178080071.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:34.33 | SpeedEvil | Through three closed doors. |
| 14:34.39 | SpeedEvil | 5.25" full-height. |
| 14:35.07 | ewon | nice. |
| 14:35.18 | ewon | we used something similar as a doorstop |
| 14:35.21 | CM | micro sd is 20mb/s isn't it? |
| 14:35.28 | woglinde | cm lol |
| 14:35.30 | cb22 | CM, different classes |
| 14:35.33 | woglinde | cm in the best case |
| 14:37.31 | SpeedEvil | I get (on the neo, with the included SD - 86 meg in 25s |
| 14:37.45 | SpeedEvil | So 3.4M/s |
| 14:37.54 | *** join/#openmoko SympleSymo1 (n=kenny@91.106.59.237) |
| 14:38.22 | cb22 | fast enough |
| 14:38.34 | CM | So you'll need 20 or so to beat a regular sata disk |
| 14:38.50 | SpeedEvil | Which will still fit in a 20mm cube. |
| 14:39.10 | ynezz | and eat whole battery just for a spin-off |
| 14:39.11 | ynezz | :p |
| 14:39.42 | cb22 | how much does the microsd actually draw? |
| 14:39.53 | SpeedEvil | Not much. |
| 14:40.17 | cb22 | and our new smedia chip? |
| 14:40.56 | SpeedEvil | Don't know. |
| 14:41.19 | *** join/#openmoko b52laptop (n=b52lapto@41.249.250.195) |
| 14:41.26 | cb22 | but it should be more efficent using it for things like mpeg4 decoding then the cpu? |
| 14:41.34 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 14:41.35 | b52laptop | hi ppl |
| 14:41.42 | SpeedEvil | If it supports it. |
| 14:41.50 | cb22 | According to the site... |
| 14:41.57 | SpeedEvil | There is a problem. |
| 14:41.58 | b52laptop | ppl is there plans to port openmoko to zaurus plateform ? under bsd ? |
| 14:42.07 | SpeedEvil | The decoder is simply a video decoder. |
| 14:42.11 | SpeedEvil | Not an audio decoder. |
| 14:42.19 | SpeedEvil | And it can't read from SD |
| 14:42.28 | cb22 | hmmm |
| 14:42.31 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 14:42.32 | SpeedEvil | So the CPU has to stay awake and feed it data and decode MP3 |
| 14:42.38 | SpeedEvil | So it's questionable. |
| 14:42.42 | XorA | b52laptop: it shouldd alreayd work on zauruss under linux, why troll about BSD? |
| 14:43.09 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, but decoding mpeg4 on there should be faster then on software? |
| 14:43.13 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: no |
| 14:43.19 | CM | abraxa_: I've eaten balut too btw |
| 14:43.22 | SpeedEvil | cb22: It will at most be 1s/s |
| 14:43.30 | cb22 | 1s/s? |
| 14:43.41 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: You don't want to decode faster than realtime, even if you can. |
| 14:43.50 | SpeedEvil | Sigh |
| 14:43.55 | b52laptop | XorA, well late say it' s a personnal preference :d , linux is becoming too huge :d ; for exemple openbsd run well on zaurus , i don't want to troll :d ; i was just curious that's all :D |
| 14:43.56 | CM | Very salty, and quite good. But nasty with the feathers and beak |
| 14:43.58 | cb22 | cbrake_away == me? |
| 14:44.00 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:44.15 | cb22 | clearly :) |
| 14:44.20 | XorA | b52laptop: your fogiven then :-D fancy adding BSD into OE? |
| 14:44.30 | SpeedEvil | Mainly that I have a bad havbit of not looking on the screen while typing. |
| 14:44.36 | cb22 | but what is 1s/s? |
| 14:44.36 | cb22 | oh |
| 14:44.36 | cb22 | right |
| 14:44.37 | cb22 | duh, just realized :) |
| 14:44.40 | SpeedEvil | I was watching my cat. |
| 14:45.06 | cb22 | excuses... :) So, this thing should be powerful enough to do 640x480 mpeg4 decoding and rotation? |
| 14:45.10 | cb22 | or is that pushing? |
| 14:45.11 | abraxa_ | CM: I don't want to eat anything that resembles a face or any distinct part of an animal... no matter the taste |
| 14:45.16 | SpeedEvil | It should be - apparently. |
| 14:45.19 | cb22 | nice |
| 14:45.23 | b52laptop | XorA, :) thanks ; OE = ? |
| 14:45.31 | cb22 | Open Evil |
| 14:45.35 | SpeedEvil | I'm not sure it's that important. |
| 14:45.37 | hrw | ~oe |
| 14:45.38 | apt | rumour has it, oe is OpenEmbedded (see http://www.openembedded.org ), or "Opportunistic Encryption" (see http://www.wavesec.org ), or an email client which is not to be spoken of. |
| 14:45.43 | XorA | b52laptop: OE is OpenEmbedded, what OpenMoko uses as its build system |
| 14:45.53 | *** part/#openmoko pulk (i=laiti@laiti.fi) |
| 14:46.02 | SpeedEvil | Other than compatibility to let you play large videos. |
| 14:46.10 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, one more thing, is it a 'fixed' style decoder thingy? |
| 14:46.14 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:46.15 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-220-232.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:46.17 | cb22 | not a DSP thing like the nokias |
| 14:46.20 | SpeedEvil | It's not a DSP thingy |
| 14:46.25 | b52laptop | XorA, grr , yeah :( ; it will be a huge mess :( |
| 14:46.30 | SpeedEvil | that's the model up - AIUI - which doesn't support VGA |
| 14:46.31 | guillaum1 | hi all |
| 14:47.51 | cb22 | what do you think the best possible battery life while playing mp3s we could get is? |
| 14:47.59 | cb22 | assuming _everything_ unnessacery is shut down |
| 14:48.11 | SpeedEvil | I've had a battery draw equivalent to 8h. |
| 14:48.21 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: At 100MHz? |
| 14:48.25 | SpeedEvil | However, I think it can be gotten a little better. |
| 14:48.28 | SpeedEvil | Yes |
| 14:48.39 | SpeedEvil | 60Mhz, and optimising what peripherals are clocked at. |
| 14:48.42 | cb22 | and the gta02 is ~40% higher capacity |
| 14:48.42 | CM | That's acceptable for sure |
| 14:49.15 | guillaum1 | Is libgsmd-tool included in openMoko by default ? I need it to start gsm calls from MIDlets |
| 14:50.20 | CM | guillaum1: it is for me |
| 14:50.41 | cb22 | IIRC its going to be replaced with a dbus interface though? |
| 14:51.01 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 14:51.45 | CM | cb22: gsmd-dbus |
| 14:52.01 | *** part/#openmoko b52laptop (n=b52lapto@41.249.250.195) |
| 14:52.02 | guillaum1 | CM, for someone who knows the answer ;-) |
| 14:55.05 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:55.05 | *** join/#openmoko steve__ (n=steve@72.29.238.226) |
| 14:57.26 | guillaum1 | CM, ah sorry I thought it was a question... |
| 14:57.26 | guillaum1 | CM, so I should develop a binding of gsmd-dbus for java ? |
| 14:57.58 | CM | guillaum1: gsmd-dbus doesn't exist yet |
| 14:58.04 | CM | It's just a plan |
| 14:58.43 | CM | Was discussed earlier, use libgsmd instead for now |
| 14:58.48 | CM | At least that's my guess |
| 14:59.07 | CM | guillaum1: Others know more about it :) |
| 14:59.46 | berkus | crap.. latest qtopia build doesn't start at all |
| 15:00.13 | guillaum1 | CM, ok ;-). I'll start with libgsmd for now |
| 15:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (n=8472@dslb-084-057-226-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko Orzech_ (n=Orzech@088156093250.wro.vectranet.pl) |
| 15:02.39 | woglinde | hi guillaum |
| 15:02.41 | Orzech_ | hello |
| 15:02.42 | guillaum1 | hi woglinde |
| 15:03.34 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 15:03.56 | Orzech_ | so... can anybody help me with http://www.pastebin.ca/741441? this totally blocks my image build :( |
| 15:04.59 | hrw | Orzech_: fedora or other crap? |
| 15:05.11 | Orzech_ | suse 10.3 |
| 15:05.24 | Orzech_ | but recently I was able to build image |
| 15:05.40 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178080071.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:05.41 | Orzech_ | and yesterday problems began after make clean and update |
| 15:05.43 | woglinde | re |
| 15:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 15:08.56 | Orzech_ | hrw, any ideas? (sorry for being in a hurry) |
| 15:10.28 | hrw | Orzech_: nope |
| 15:11.17 | Orzech_ | hrw, damn, I've nice start into learning development apps for OM :D |
| 15:11.57 | guillaum1 | CM, maybe I should invoke the native dialer instead... (to not recreate the wheel) |
| 15:13.20 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAFC7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:13.23 | thos | hum |
| 15:13.54 | thos | guillaum1: you want to write a new dialer? |
| 15:16.44 | guillaum1 | thos, I need to start a GSM call from a MIDlet. First I thought I could develop a small dialer. But best is to invoke the standard dialer |
| 15:17.04 | thos | guillaum1: yes, that's the best idea |
| 15:17.14 | thos | guillaum1: the dialer has a dbus interface with a Dial method |
| 15:17.29 | thos | guillaum1: although as CM mentioned, this will soon be moved into PhoneKit |
| 15:17.56 | *** join/#openmoko korpios (n=korpios@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 15:18.49 | guillaum1 | thos, ok. So I have to use a java-dbus binding to make it working |
| 15:18.59 | thos | yes |
| 15:19.34 | Orzech_ | well, thanks for help, maybe I'll figure it out |
| 15:19.42 | guillaum1 | thos, are there some docs about the Dial method and its parameters ? |
| 15:19.48 | thos | guillaum1: not yet |
| 15:19.56 | thos | plus, I broke some of the buttons in the dialer yesterday |
| 15:20.14 | thos | apologies to anyone who built it today |
| 15:20.27 | cb22 | tsk tsk |
| 15:20.32 | cb22 | button breaker |
| 15:21.44 | thos | cb22: but the buttons suck 100% less |
| 15:21.49 | thos | even though they are not visible ;-) |
| 15:22.09 | cb22 | hehe |
| 15:22.41 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 15:22.47 | guillaum1 | thos, do you have some source code instead ? |
| 15:22.47 | thos | with any luck the icons won't be incredibly small any more |
| 15:22.53 | thos | guillaum1: it's all in svn |
| 15:23.17 | guillaum1 | thos, ok I'll have a look. Thanks for your help ! |
| 15:23.31 | abraxa_ | thos: For the media player I had to use use of the pixmap engine (shudder) to customize some of the widget's drawing styles. Will this be possible with your engine, too? |
| 15:23.41 | abraxa_ | make use* |
| 15:25.15 | thos | abraxa_: sure, I have some options |
| 15:25.28 | thos | abraxa_: currently the only options are border (bool) and gradient (bool) |
| 15:25.32 | guillaum1 | hi Stephmw |
| 15:25.35 | thos | but I hope to add some more |
| 15:26.15 | abraxa_ | thos: That would be great. I'd love to hand you patches but I'm not sure I have enough time for that :( |
| 15:26.21 | Vegar | how do you do gradients? |
| 15:26.25 | Stephmw | hey guillaum1 |
| 15:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 15:29.19 | *** join/#openmoko Writchi1 (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 15:29.39 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1 (n=Selveste@0x5735ead7.hknxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 15:30.16 | thos | abraxa_: if you can give me some pictures of what you need I can take a look |
| 15:30.55 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 15:30.55 | Selveste1 | Hay :D |
| 15:31.19 | Selveste1 | When is it posibel to bay the phone in Denmark ? |
| 15:33.40 | sannes | Selveste1: I think it is possible to buy the phone in Denmark now, from the US. |
| 15:34.35 | CM | Selveste1: If you want a development version you can order it now :) |
| 15:35.09 | abraxa_ | thos: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/a75eb7618d19bdd69ac683145e4b8d42.png - http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/openmoko-mediaplayer?view=markup |
| 15:35.25 | abraxa_ | CM: I thought you wanted to call it a day ;) |
| 15:35.50 | thos | abraxa_: what parts in particular? |
| 15:36.51 | abraxa_ | thos: The progress bar and the buttons |
| 15:37.05 | abraxa_ | The progress bar should be quite easy to do as it's totally solid |
| 15:37.25 | CM | abraxa_: I meant working day, now I'm off to town ;) |
| 15:37.36 | thos | abraxa_: why do the buttons need special styling? |
| 15:37.39 | abraxa_ | CM: Ah - enjoy! |
| 15:37.43 | thos | abraxa_: you can easily make them white... |
| 15:38.22 | *** join/#openmoko fugazy (n=chatzill@AVelizy-152-1-34-22.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:38.44 | abraxa_ | thos: They need styling because I'm using both a pixmap for the background and foreground |
| 15:38.53 | thos | abraxa_: well don't |
| 15:38.53 | fugazy | Hi all |
| 15:39.09 | thos | abraxa_: use an icon for the foreground packed in the button |
| 15:39.10 | abraxa_ | thos: How would you go about that then? |
| 15:39.23 | thos | abraxa_: otherwise the size request will be broken on any other theme |
| 15:39.58 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-085-216-001-036.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:40.09 | PBeck | hi :) |
| 15:40.31 | abraxa_ | thos: You mean merging the button along with its icon instead of letting GTK do it? |
| 15:41.35 | thos | abraxa_: no, I mean use an image packed inside the button |
| 15:41.43 | thos | abraxa_: but secondly, use stock items anyway |
| 15:42.01 | abraxa_ | I can't, unfortunately |
| 15:42.01 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 15:42.07 | abraxa_ | And yes, I'm packing an image into the button :) |
| 15:42.29 | thos | abraxa_: why can't you use stock items? |
| 15:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko mickeyl (n=mickeyl@122-124-83-32.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:43.14 | abraxa_ | thos: Because the stock items are centered - the buttons however aren't, which would make the stock images mis-aligned |
| 15:43.42 | abraxa_ | Of course I could fix that with the button's x/yalign but I can't define those from within the theme |
| 15:44.02 | thos | abraxa_: why aren't the buttons centered? |
| 15:44.13 | thos | they look fairly central to me |
| 15:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-139-168-192-245.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 15:44.23 | abraxa_ | They have a shadow |
| 15:44.42 | thos | abraxa_: well, they won't in other themes... |
| 15:44.55 | Writchi1 | mickey|tw: good flight? |
| 15:45.14 | mickey|tw | Writchi1: pretty well, expect that i can't sleep on planes |
| 15:45.26 | thos | abraxa_: really, you need to do things so they are correct in gtk+ first, then try and get the theme to fit. don't try and do it the other way around |
| 15:45.37 | Writchi1 | you just haven't done enuf of it yet ;) |
| 15:45.49 | thos | abraxa_: otherwise you will end up with nasty hacks and you will find it looks ugly on any other theme anyway |
| 15:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:45.56 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAA724.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:47.45 | abraxa_ | thos: What's "correct" in terms of GTK? Yes, I would like to use stock icons as well but GTK's utterly limited theming capabilities put a huge damper on my efforts |
| 15:48.06 | SrRaven | dont wanna be a pain in the butt or so,but are there even rumours on a neo1973 successor ? |
| 15:48.55 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 15:48.58 | Vegar | SrRaven: AFAIK, there are plans of a successor |
| 15:49.12 | thos | abraxa_: well, if you want a completely custom graphics based GUI then don't use GTK+ for those bits |
| 15:49.23 | thos | abraxa_: just draw on a canvas or something |
| 15:50.21 | abraxa_ | Hmm... |
| 15:51.16 | thos | abraxa_: there's no point trying to hack your custom theming into the gtkrc because any other theme someone tries will be broken |
| 15:51.32 | thos | abraxa_: part of the reason for 2007.2 was to prevent such hacks |
| 15:51.47 | gw280 | hey thos |
| 15:51.52 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@CPE-58-170-92-19.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 15:51.57 | _buz | damn that compulab device looks nifty |
| 15:52.04 | Vegar | yeah |
| 15:52.06 | Vegar | nice battery too |
| 15:52.12 | _buz | and SANE design |
| 15:52.17 | thos | gw280: hi |
| 15:52.27 | _buz | i wonder what it costs fully specced |
| 15:54.02 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:54.26 | *** join/#openmoko bertmatic (n=alberto@adsl150-142.aknet.it) |
| 15:54.31 | _buz | (or if trolltech decides to make that into greenphone mkII) |
| 15:54.35 | Vegar | hehe |
| 15:54.53 | Vegar | I wonder if gta02 can run x-moto |
| 15:55.10 | fugazy | I have a pb with connecting to the bootloader (i want to erase flash). using info on the wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader i come to the point where /dev/ttyACM0 is present, i make the chown uucp.uucp on it and cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 which says it is connected, but i never get any prompt. any hints ? |
| 15:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 15:56.13 | abraxa_ | thos: What's wrong with putting images used to build the UI into the theme directory? Yes, standard themes won't have them but I just need non-standard images for the media player UI |
| 15:56.38 | abraxa_ | ...and those who build openmoko themes will have to create replacements for other UI elements anyway |
| 15:57.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3228 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-talking.c): |
| 15:57.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-talking.c: (moko_talking_incoming_call), |
| 15:57.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (moko_talking_outgoing_call), (moko_talking_accepted_call): Use |
| 15:57.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: show_all when showing the toolbars |
| 15:57.14 | thos | with any luck that will fix the dialer toolbars |
| 15:57.40 | thos | abraxa_: well, it makes your application useless without that theme for a start |
| 15:57.58 | mickey|tw | what's x-moto? |
| 15:58.10 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|away: motorbike game |
| 15:58.23 | mickey|tw | ah |
| 15:58.32 | Vegar | probably not |
| 15:58.48 | mickey|tw | sdl? |
| 15:58.58 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@psnet.cc) |
| 15:59.05 | Vegar | no |
| 15:59.13 | Vegar | opengl |
| 15:59.16 | mickey|tw | OH |
| 15:59.18 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-103-192.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 15:59.20 | Vegar | (I think) |
| 15:59.21 | mickey|tw | that's toug |
| 15:59.25 | Vegar | yeah, I know |
| 16:00.04 | abraxa_ | thos: Yeah, which is a bummer for me also. |
| 16:01.53 | thos | abraxa_: so I would suggest either you compromise on the visual style, or you draw it yourself |
| 16:02.00 | thos | abraxa_: i mean, how important are the drop shadows? |
| 16:02.13 | mwester | mickey|tw: If, by chance, you discover any information on the future of certain key openmoko components during your meetings, can you pass along some hints? Specifically, I'd like to hack about on gmsd as it exists today, but it would be wasted effort if it will replaced shortly. |
| 16:02.39 | mickey|tw | mwester: gsmd will not be replaced shortly, please continue to hack on it |
| 16:02.56 | mickey|tw | yes, i'll try to pass on everythin that's settled |
| 16:03.05 | mwester | Ah, ok. Then the rumors of a dbus-based replacement are pure optimism :) |
| 16:03.21 | abraxa_ | thos: It's not about them in particular - the problem is that I need visual elements not included in any standard GTK theme. Sure, I could put them somewhere theme-independent but that would make it look out-of-place with other themes... I'm torn. |
| 16:03.42 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EA972E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:03.56 | Vegar | mwester: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/unbreaking-openmoko |
| 16:03.56 | mickey|tw | mwester: no. dbus won't shortly replace gsmd, but complement it. |
| 16:04.42 | thos | abraxa_: yeah, you have to choose one way or the other ;-) |
| 16:04.48 | mickey|tw | as long as gsmd sucks, gsmd-dbus will suck as well |
| 16:04.52 | mickey|tw | so we're bound to fix it at the heart |
| 16:04.53 | mwester | hehe! |
| 16:05.04 | thos | abraxa_: I would be willing to add small bits of generic styling that will help you though |
| 16:05.07 | mickey|tw | talking, even |
| 16:06.52 | mwester | mickey|tw: What is your feeling on the likely response to moving the in-kernel GSM modem enable/disable code into the serial driver itself? Waste of time, or something that might be considered this late in the development? |
| 16:07.43 | mickey|tw | mwester: well, since the problem only affects gta01, i think it may be worth to consider. the final say have the kernel developers tough |
| 16:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.92.39.234) |
| 16:07.44 | mickey|tw | though |
| 16:08.21 | mwester | Ok, fair enough. Again, I'm just trying to figure out what's worth the effort and what would be a huge waste of time :) |
| 16:09.15 | mickey|tw | i think everything that benefits thousands of gta01 users will be worht it |
| 16:09.25 | mickey|tw | (yes, only few thousand, but anyways) |
| 16:09.48 | mickey|tw | as is the release of the oabi-gllin. we only gain renewed trust from it ;) |
| 16:09.51 | guaqua | still a few thousand units, that's good |
| 16:10.03 | XorA | well they could be the 1000 most loyal customers if treated right :-) |
| 16:10.08 | mickey|tw | right |
| 16:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12D029.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:11.44 | XorA | mickey|tw: BTW can you can toolchain to build without disabling insane? |
| 16:12.17 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: meta-toolchain-openmoko you mean? |
| 16:12.30 | mickey|tw | XorA: yes |
| 16:12.35 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: Builds fine for me on the office pc |
| 16:12.47 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 16:13.05 | XorA | doesnt build here :-( |
| 16:13.39 | mickey|tw | darn. so much for predictability |
| 16:13.45 | mickey|tw | how does it bail out? |
| 16:13.56 | XorA | .debug dirs in non debug packages |
| 16:14.04 | mickey|tw | whew |
| 16:14.06 | mickey|tw | odd |
| 16:14.07 | XorA | mickey|away: quite a few people on #oe fell over same thing |
| 16:15.01 | mickey|tw | ok, might be interesting to compare build logs / tarball contents |
| 16:15.10 | mickey|tw | stefan_schmidt: can you put yours up? |
| 16:16.16 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|tw: I turned it off as I left the office. On monday or perhaps sunday I can |
| 16:16.33 | mickey|tw | good |
| 16:17.37 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
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| 16:20.26 | mickey|tw | stefan_schmidt: btw., libmokopanelui2-0.3.0+svnr3226 is a new take at proper scaling applets in qvga. might try when you have a chance |
| 16:20.46 | mickey|tw | or alphaone |
| 16:20.48 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|tw: ok |
| 16:20.57 | alphaone | huh, what? |
| 16:21.07 | alphaone | ah, okay |
| 16:21.29 | mickey|tw | no need to reinstall the plugins, library update should be enough (if it works at all) |
| 16:21.30 | alphaone | Will do once I get openezx running on my motorazr2 ;-) |
| 16:21.39 | mickey|tw | heh |
| 16:21.42 | mickey|tw | that can take a while |
| 16:22.46 | *** join/#openmoko foomil__ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-078-010-248.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:22.55 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FFF08.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:25.03 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|tw: normally he just needs 5 minutes for such stuff |
| 16:26.56 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 16:28.01 | mickey|tw | cu XorA|gone |
| 16:31.50 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=GZBA4143@AMontsouris-153-1-102-137.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:35.57 | abraxa__ | thos: Yeah, I would sincerely appreciate that. The progress bar theming seems easy enough to do, so I'll try to find some time soon and submit you a patch. Would that be okay with you? |
| 16:39.09 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
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| 16:43.30 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 16:44.30 | thos | abraxa_: yeah the progress bar looks fine |
| 16:44.40 | thos | abraxa_: it probably just needs a patch to gtkrc |
| 16:47.20 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
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| 16:56.52 | ScaredyCat | Yoink! |
| 16:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 17:00.02 | ynezz | not bad :) |
| 17:00.21 | mwester | buildhost is down, you're the next most likely place to get working stuff, I guess. |
| 17:00.27 | cb22 | hehe |
| 17:01.31 | *** part/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 17:01.49 | mwester | I hope you're not paying bandwidth fees on that... |
| 17:01.54 | roh | buildhost has defictive ram afaik.. its beeing worked on |
| 17:01.58 | roh | -e |
| 17:02.20 | mwester | ;) Isn't most RAM manufactured right there in tw? |
| 17:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:03.15 | roh | dunno. thats just a rented box at a german mass-hoster |
| 17:03.35 | mwester | Ah, there's the problem then -- you can't just walk up to it and fix it. :( |
| 17:03.36 | roh | so its not our call to put in new ram. we call them and they do the dirty work |
| 17:03.50 | cb22 | the dirty work is the fun work |
| 17:04.06 | roh | cb22 not really. would me more work if we did hosting ourselves |
| 17:04.15 | cb22 | mwester, its fun to do it a few times |
| 17:04.21 | cb22 | not for a job :) |
| 17:04.37 | cb22 | like when i'm bored i always end up ripping apart my 'servers' |
| 17:04.37 | roh | in taiwan or berlin its not that easy to find fat pipes and good prices when it comes to hosting |
| 17:04.55 | mwester | Ah, ok. Yeah, it kinda sucks as a job. The only time your phone rings is when something is broken, nobody ever calls the admin guys to say things are great. |
| 17:05.15 | cb22 | in south africa our datacenters probably have slower conenctions then your adsl... |
| 17:05.16 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 17:05.36 | cb22 | mwester, too true |
| 17:05.41 | roh | well.. i'm off now. friends instead of servers and mail ;=). have fun.. bbl |
| 17:06.12 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44a665.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 17:06.25 | ScaredyCat | friends? |
| 17:08.22 | mjr | yeah, what're those? |
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| 17:16.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3229 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): |
| 17:16.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c: |
| 17:16.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (moko_finger_scroll_motion_notify_cb): |
| 17:16.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Don't call gtk_widget_get_pointer too early |
| 17:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-103-192.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 17:17.28 | cb22 | specifically, http://xkcd.com/306/ |
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| 17:50.22 | rob_w | Available machine support: |
| 17:50.22 | rob_w | ID (hex) NAME |
| 17:50.22 | rob_w | 000000f5 Intel IXDP425 Development Platform |
| 17:50.38 | rob_w | oops wrong channel |
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| 17:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 18:01.30 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 18:04.40 | fgau | o-hand.com friends around? svn: Kann 'http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/matchbox/trunk/libfakekey' in Revision 1 nicht im Projektarchiv finden |
| 18:06.20 | alphaone | fgau: Last commit fixed it imho |
| 18:06.24 | alphaone | SRCREV_pn-libfakekey ?= "1455 |
| 18:06.35 | alphaone | in sane-srcrev |
| 18:08.32 | alphaone | fgau: Yeah, it's working for me now |
| 18:08.48 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.222.190) |
| 18:09.12 | fgau | alphaone: cool, let me try |
| 18:14.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 949 has been created by koen(AT)openembedded.org |
| 18:14.02 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko-dialer2 r3228 can't accept incoming calls |
| 18:14.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=949 |
| 18:15.16 | fgau | alphaone: for me too, thx, danke! :) |
| 18:15.23 | alphaone | np |
| 18:15.33 | alphaone | I'm gonna go to bed now night |
| 18:15.55 | fgau | gn8 |
| 18:17.57 | woglinde | nite alphaone |
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| 18:41.28 | nelson | Anybody else using libboost? |
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| 18:59.12 | gamin | does anybody else hear lots of noise when using the headphones and touching the 2.5mm jack? |
| 18:59.28 | gamin | should there be a hardware bug be filed? |
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| 19:15.22 | abraxa_ | Anyone here living in Henderson by chance? |
| 19:15.41 | nelson | If I was living in Henderson it would be by intention, I suspect. |
| 19:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0x50a1b65a.unknown.tele.dk) |
| 19:15.56 | CM | nelson: Hehe |
| 19:16.00 | abraxa_ | Heh ;) |
| 19:16.01 | matsimoto | does anyone know how to get the caller id when I get a RING with cu ? |
| 19:17.02 | nelson | matsimoto: if the AT command set is anything like the ZyXEL set, you need to turn it on using a particular AT command. |
| 19:17.25 | nelson | Otherwise if it was turned on by default, you'd get nonstandard RING 1-123-456-7890 |
| 19:17.59 | nelson | That's a cheap way of answering your question by giving you irrelevant information which SEEMS to be helpful, but which is actually useless. |
| 19:18.11 | matsimoto | nelson: do you have a hint for me ? I tried extended ring codes with at+crc=1 but I only get +CRING: VOICE :( |
| 19:18.36 | matsimoto | hehe, but sounds good ;) |
| 19:18.42 | ScaredyCat | haha</nelson> |
| 19:18.47 | ScaredyCat | just had to be done :) |
| 19:19.34 | nelson | matsimoto: no, everybody extends the AT command set in their own unique, creative way. |
| 19:20.25 | matsimoto | thats what is so beautiful about standards |
| 19:20.50 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E3C2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:21.04 | nelson | ja |
| 19:21.06 | ScaredyCat | have a look at my profile on the wiki for at cmd stuff |
| 19:24.32 | cb22 | matsimoto, maybe its a private number? |
| 19:25.20 | matsimoto | cb22: no, I checked it against my other mobile. |
| 19:25.58 | matsimoto | ScaredyCat: Shame on me :-[ what do you mean with "my profile" ? |
| 19:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:27.55 | CM | matsimoto: I guess in the wiki |
| 19:31.45 | CM | ScaredyCat: Not much info here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:ScaredyCat |
| 19:31.51 | nelson | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands |
| 19:32.02 | Vegar | CM: discussion page |
| 19:33.14 | matsimoto | <PROTECTED> |
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| 19:35.19 | matsimoto | ah tricky in the discussion tab of ScaredyCat are at command description at+clip sounds promising |
| 19:36.18 | matsimoto | yepp that works at+clip=1 gives me tha data I need. Thanx a lot ! |
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| 19:45.29 | matsimoto | AT+CVIB=? gives me EXT: I and ERROR ? Anyone who get : +CVIB: (0-1,16) as mentioned in the wiki ? |
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| 19:52.19 | ScaredyCat | sorry was eating |
| 19:52.20 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:ScaredyCat |
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| 20:36.19 | abraxa_ | ...and the channel dies again. |
| 20:36.28 | CM | abraxa_: Its friday evening |
| 20:36.35 | *** join/#openmoko meldianen (n=vincent@ANancy-155-1-2-78.w90-6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:36.37 | CM | :P |
| 20:36.45 | abraxa_ | Back from town? |
| 20:37.14 | CM | Yes, some beers and pizza later ;) |
| 20:38.06 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 20:40.29 | ScaredyCat | anyone know anything about ruby ? |
| 20:40.39 | CM | A bit.. |
| 20:40.57 | ScaredyCat | gem install -y ruby-opengl |
| 20:41.25 | ScaredyCat | just give "Could not find ruby-opengl (> 0) in any repository" |
| 20:41.36 | ScaredyCat | at which point I'm stuck |
| 20:42.12 | CM | Hmm.. I'll try here and see what it says |
| 20:44.30 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@211.80-202-219.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:46.16 | CM | ScaredyCat: Installed fine here, but that was using portage |
| 20:48.29 | ScaredyCat | -r on the end seemed to fix |
| 20:48.30 | ScaredyCat | it |
| 20:50.34 | *** join/#openmoko vciaglia (n=vciaglia@host225-29-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 20:54.13 | ScaredyCat | schweet!!! |
| 20:54.28 | nelson | what? |
| 20:54.59 | vciaglia | someone have some battery problem? |
| 20:56.18 | CM | vciaglia: The Neo powering down at random? |
| 20:56.38 | CM | vciaglia: Not me, but I have heard 2-3 people talking about that |
| 20:57.02 | vciaglia | CM: yep, and now i can't powerup my neo. I have to remove the battery for other 10 hours and recharge it for other 10 hours |
| 20:57.13 | SpeedEvil | 10 may be a bit much |
| 20:57.21 | SpeedEvil | 1 is usually plenty |
| 20:57.22 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky_ (n=kuyky@81.84.150.236) |
| 20:57.38 | SpeedEvil | and 2 hours charging or so. |
| 20:58.24 | kayon | gamin: just saw your message about lot's of noise with the headset and 2.5mm jack. I get that also. Makes headset unusable. |
| 20:58.33 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A54115.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:58.43 | vciaglia | SpeedEvil: what's the life of the battery? 5 or 6 hours like Qtopia? |
| 20:59.02 | ScaredyCat | CM: http://fudgie.org/ |
| 20:59.06 | SpeedEvil | via: it supports suspend mode - which is about 12 hours. |
| 20:59.17 | SpeedEvil | But P< is basically unimplemented. |
| 20:59.18 | SpeedEvil | PM |
| 21:00.03 | vciaglia | SpeedEvil: i see |
| 21:02.23 | *** join/#openmoko ale__ (n=ale@host2-206-dynamic.19-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:03.15 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@host2-206-dynamic.19-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:03.41 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 21:05.15 | SrRaven | bongiorno |
| 21:05.28 | Ghiottone | :) |
| 21:05.44 | vciaglia | tutti italiani qui :) |
| 21:06.03 | Ghiottone | yes :) |
| 21:08.01 | cb22 | ciao |
| 21:08.10 | cb22 | ^^ thats my italian :) |
| 21:08.18 | Ghiottone | cb22, cheater :) |
| 21:08.30 | cb22 | hehe |
| 21:08.35 | cb22 | my parents are italian |
| 21:08.39 | cb22 | i'm learning |
| 21:08.53 | Ghiottone | really? nice. from where? |
| 21:09.04 | cb22 | dads from verona and moms from bergamo |
| 21:09.08 | cb22 | i was born in south africa |
| 21:09.21 | vciaglia | cb22: not bad... the first one who doesn't say "pizza,spaghetti and mandolino" :) |
| 21:09.38 | Ghiottone | :) |
| 21:10.13 | Ghiottone | cb22, moved there for work I guess? |
| 21:10.20 | cb22 | yep |
| 21:10.49 | Ghiottone | did you ever come to italy? |
| 21:11.02 | cb22 | yep, twice |
| 21:11.06 | cb22 | going again in july |
| 21:11.22 | Ghiottone | to verona or bergamo? |
| 21:11.33 | cb22 | verona, for my brothers wedding |
| 21:11.55 | Ghiottone | do you like it? |
| 21:11.59 | Ghiottone | italy, I mean |
| 21:12.01 | cb22 | yeah, its cool there |
| 21:12.19 | Ghiottone | :) |
| 21:12.31 | cb22 | also have cousins there my own age who understand english, so its not as if im lost :) |
| 21:12.35 | cb22 | <--- 16 |
| 21:12.57 | cb22 | and i understand most of italian... but speaking, well, i suck at that |
| 21:13.13 | Ghiottone | great! you're good then |
| 21:13.31 | univac | grande ;] |
| 21:13.33 | Ghiottone | italian is a pretty difficult language to learn (others say) |
| 21:13.55 | cb22 | i'm finding the grammer easy, but i suck at vocab |
| 21:14.01 | cb22 | the rest in my class find it the other way around |
| 21:14.20 | Ghiottone | are you studying at school? |
| 21:14.31 | cb22 | not at my school, nope |
| 21:14.42 | Ghiottone | oh a private class |
| 21:14.45 | cb22 | yep |
| 21:15.11 | cb22 | but i tend to suck at content subjects (history, etc) but do well in thinking subjects like science or so |
| 21:15.39 | Ghiottone | the same I did :) |
| 21:16.45 | Ghiottone | what language do you talk at home? |
| 21:16.58 | Ghiottone | do your parents talk in italian between them? |
| 21:17.07 | cb22 | yeah |
| 21:17.11 | cb22 | and they speak it to me |
| 21:17.15 | cb22 | but i reply in english |
| 21:17.32 | cb22 | where abouts are you from? |
| 21:18.31 | Ghiottone | I live near Florence |
| 21:18.43 | vciaglia | maremma! :9 |
| 21:19.22 | Ghiottone | cb22, you should start answering them in italian. that will let you learn fast |
| 21:19.46 | Ghiottone | vciaglia, not maremma. I live both in Pisa and near Siena |
| 21:19.59 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: i like too much Pisa. |
| 21:20.21 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: but i also like where i'm now and where i was born :) |
| 21:20.34 | Ghiottone | vciaglia, and where is that? |
| 21:20.39 | cb22 | Ghiottone, i'm starting |
| 21:20.45 | cb22 | now atleast i know some tenses |
| 21:20.59 | Ghiottone | cb22, great! :) |
| 21:21.10 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: not far from Naples and very near to Salerno. |
| 21:21.24 | cb22 | Ghiottone, are there quite a few people in italy with neo's? |
| 21:21.42 | Ghiottone | cb22, I think we are in four or five |
| 21:21.54 | cb22 | better then one in SA |
| 21:21.58 | cb22 | debug boards? :) |
| 21:22.05 | Ghiottone | at least that is the estimate number from before the last shipment |
| 21:22.15 | *** part/#openmoko matsimoto (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-027-191.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:22.21 | Ghiottone | cb22: one or two (still my guess) |
| 21:22.34 | Ghiottone | I don't have |
| 21:23.16 | cb22 | lucky, if you brick yours you could catch a train or something :) |
| 21:23.16 | cb22 | if i had 2 catch a train i would be shot several times in the back, before being robbed |
| 21:23.28 | Ghiottone | is that the situation in SA? |
| 21:23.39 | vciaglia | someone tested the latest openmoko-devel-image? I mean the 19 October one. What are the improvements? |
| 21:23.54 | cb22 | well, a little bit of an exageration :) |
| 21:23.57 | cb22 | but round about there |
| 21:24.27 | cb22 | oh, and yes. |
| 21:24.43 | cb22 | our ex-deputy president thinks showers cure aids |
| 21:24.52 | cb22 | and our health minister believes in potatoes as a cure |
| 21:25.04 | cb22 | and is a drunk, lier and thief |
| 21:25.04 | cb22 | and is suing the media |
| 21:25.23 | cb22 | *go figure* |
| 21:25.26 | Ghiottone | cb22, oh wow |
| 21:25.44 | cb22 | yet we are still in the rugby world cup finals... go bokke! |
| 21:25.51 | Ghiottone | eheh |
| 21:26.04 | cb22 | england are going down |
| 21:26.04 | vciaglia | an excellent rugby team :) |
| 21:26.15 | Ghiottone | vciaglia, you were in the group seeking some project for their PhD thesis weren't you? |
| 21:27.24 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: umh no... i'm just an undergraduate CS student :) |
| 21:27.40 | cb22 | vciaglia, which type of CS? |
| 21:27.53 | Ghiottone | oh sorry. I must have misread some email then |
| 21:28.16 | cb22 | here CS could be information systems or things like ASM programming |
| 21:28.17 | vciaglia | cb: Computer Science, Computer Networks field |
| 21:28.30 | cb22 | nice |
| 21:28.39 | cb22 | i'm still figuring out what to study at university |
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| 21:28.52 | cb22 | only 2 more years of school left for me |
| 21:28.56 | Ghiottone | languages? :) |
| 21:29.08 | cb22 | hehe |
| 21:29.13 | cb22 | something in computers... |
| 21:29.18 | cb22 | but i dont quite know what yet |
| 21:29.38 | Ghiottone | my father did the wrong thing of buying a computer when I was 12... |
| 21:29.43 | vciaglia | ok, it's time to reflash with the latest image! :) |
| 21:29.47 | cb22 | heh |
| 21:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AC3E2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:30.22 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: heh, i was 7 or 8 maybe but i don't know your epoch :) |
| 21:30.23 | cb22 | cant wait for a neo |
| 21:30.28 | cb22 | anything is more stable then this p990 |
| 21:30.34 | Ghiottone | cb22, in my university you could choose what to specialize on at the third year and could change it each next year if you wanted |
| 21:30.54 | cb22 | yeah, here you choose after your first year |
| 21:31.25 | Ghiottone | vciaglia, you were really young! |
| 21:31.31 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: what are you studying? |
| 21:31.44 | Ghiottone | I did CS in Pisa |
| 21:31.44 | cb22 | how old are all of you? |
| 21:31.52 | Ghiottone | I'm 31 |
| 21:31.56 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44a665.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:32.06 | abraxa_ | 25 |
| 21:32.26 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: yep, it was one of the first 80286. But i had a commodore and an amiga too :) |
| 21:32.26 | cb22 | but i'm probably getting too old for that |
| 21:32.32 | cb22 | 16 :) |
| 21:32.40 | univac | nah :P |
| 21:32.44 | SpeedEvil | cb22: only if you have a big net, and a favourable legal system. |
| 21:33.02 | Ghiottone | eheh |
| 21:33.02 | cb22 | nothing money cant buy.... |
| 21:33.28 | Ghiottone | vciaglia, the 80286 has been my second computer. I even bought it a math coprocessor! |
| 21:33.46 | vciaglia | very nice Ghiottone :) |
| 21:33.55 | SpeedEvil | I don't think I ever did that. |
| 21:34.08 | SpeedEvil | (copro chips) |
| 21:34.11 | cb22 | yeah, if the neo doesnt have one :) |
| 21:35.02 | cb22 | is the lack of a FPU a big issue? |
| 21:36.00 | Ghiottone | SpeedEvil, it was the only thing I could buy for it... those where unupgradable pcs |
| 21:36.24 | SpeedEvil | cb22: a FPU/MMX/DSP would be nice. |
| 21:36.34 | cb22 | indeed |
| 21:36.38 | cb22 | my old ipaq had a DSP |
| 21:36.47 | cb22 | hacking that was interesting |
| 21:36.49 | Ghiottone | :) |
| 21:37.08 | cb22 | didnt get much except basic dsp-gateway stuff working though |
| 21:37.26 | cb22 | *sigh* history |
| 21:37.49 | Ghiottone | wow |
| 21:37.59 | Ghiottone | I never learned to use a soldering iron |
| 21:38.10 | SpeedEvil | cb22: 93? |
| 21:38.28 | *** part/#openmoko RubberHound (n=dany@IGLD-83-130-223-28.inter.net.il) |
| 21:38.38 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, that long ago? |
| 21:38.40 | cb22 | doubt it |
| 21:38.40 | SpeedEvil | Probably later. |
| 21:38.45 | SpeedEvil | maybe 95. |
| 21:38.57 | cb22 | 98 |
| 21:39.08 | cb22 | i had a top of the range sony vaio, ultra thin, 150mhz processor, 128mb ram |
| 21:39.09 | cb22 | from 99 |
| 21:39.48 | SpeedEvil | Ignore me. |
| 21:39.57 | SpeedEvil | I suck at history. |
| 21:40.21 | cb22 | good thing this isnt #history |
| 21:40.31 | SpeedEvil | At least actual specific timelines. |
| 21:40.42 | cb22 | but it is #openmoko, where you make really useful contributions :) |
| 21:41.11 | Vegar | in 97, my 100MHz something came with 64 MB of RAM |
| 21:41.15 | SpeedEvil | win95 page on wikipedia sasys official minimum was 4M |
| 21:41.36 | cb22 | guess nothings changed between then and vista |
| 21:41.41 | cb22 | microsoft still underquoting |
| 21:41.51 | *** join/#openmoko zncbtrn_ (n=zencubot@modemcable027.33-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 21:41.55 | anrp | 4m .. hoo boy |
| 21:41.56 | Ghiottone | my 80286 was a very strange computer. it had 5MB ram |
| 21:42.07 | anrp | not that strance |
| 21:42.10 | cb22 | i tended to like pcs with weird amounts of ram |
| 21:42.16 | anrp | 1m conventional + 4m extended? |
| 21:42.22 | Ghiottone | anrp, yes |
| 21:42.45 | Ghiottone | I played around a lot with EMM, XMS and such |
| 21:43.01 | Ghiottone | Stacker's time, also |
| 21:43.09 | SpeedEvil | $800 or so at the time. |
| 21:43.16 | Ghiottone | wow |
| 21:43.25 | Vegar | do you still have it, SpeedEvil? |
| 21:44.00 | SpeedEvil | Probably not. |
| 21:44.45 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 21:44.45 | SpeedEvil | Actually, certainly not, that box got sold. |
| 21:45.44 | *** part/#openmoko Neolink (n=Neolink@217.118.92.33) |
| 21:45.50 | Vegar | I think I got rid of the box that needed a SIMM |
| 21:45.56 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f048065157.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:46.06 | SpeedEvil | I still have a (probably) booting 386/20 board. |
| 21:46.17 | SpeedEvil | I bought it way back for an audio server. |
| 21:46.31 | Vegar | can it decode mp3s? |
| 21:46.59 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 21:47.07 | SpeedEvil | I'd guess at maybe 5% speed. |
| 21:47.31 | SpeedEvil | Actually - it shouldn't be that bad. |
| 21:47.33 | SpeedEvil | More like 10% |
| 21:48.10 | vciaglia | well, the latest devel-image isn't booting on my neo :/ |
| 21:54.11 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky_ (n=kuyky@81.84.150.236) |
| 21:54.15 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@gwfm4-3-250.802.cz) |
| 21:54.17 | *** join/#openmoko superbnerb (n=superbne@CPE0080c8df7759-CM00194757e7b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:56.15 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A7692.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 21:56.24 | hhf423 | moin |
| 21:56.50 | Ghiottone | hey hhf423 |
| 21:57.43 | hhf423 | hi Ghiottone |
| 21:57.47 | hhf423 | whats news? |
| 21:57.48 | Ghiottone | vciaglia, did you flash the kernel too? |
| 21:57.58 | viq | Aaah! A flasher! |
| 21:57.59 | viq | ;P |
| 21:58.12 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: just rebooted and now it works fine with Pin Request too :) |
| 21:58.21 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 21:58.44 | Ghiottone | hhf423, working on some more packaging :) |
| 21:58.56 | Ghiottone | vciaglia, great then! what was the problem? |
| 21:59.07 | vciaglia | Ghiottone: dunno :) |
| 21:59.22 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 21:59.38 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: packaging updates to smstool and such or something new? |
| 21:59.38 | vciaglia | it sounds interesting the latest qtopia snapshot too. So amazing that neo...i'm feeling in love :) |
| 22:00.03 | hhf423 | vciaglia: are there any significant changes in qtopia? |
| 22:00.28 | vciaglia | hhf423: i think there are improvements in audio switching while making calls |
| 22:01.04 | hhf423 | vciaglia: ah, that would be good, have to try that when I have looked at the 071019 image of openmoko |
| 22:01.21 | Ghiottone | hhf423, I have not checked for updates from chris. are there any? I'm working on a java virtual machine |
| 22:01.39 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: just back from a trip, have not checked |
| 22:02.37 | hhf423 | looks like harald will actually work on neo software once he is back to berlin? I hope this will include gsmd :-) |
| 22:03.30 | Ghiottone | I thought harald was more a kernel dev, but I may be wrong |
| 22:04.03 | Vegar | gsmd is made by harald |
| 22:04.04 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: yes, but it looks like he does the things which need to be done and gsmd needs to be done :-) |
| 22:05.08 | hhf423 | wow, I get asked for PIN and it registers with network and the top menu bar is there right on the first boot |
| 22:06.17 | vciaglia | sometimes the topbars is not showed, why? |
| 22:06.22 | vciaglia | *top bar |
| 22:06.40 | hhf423 | vciaglia: unclear. probably a timing issue with gsmd etc |
| 22:06.56 | hhf423 | oooh, the missing calls count works |
| 22:07.16 | mwester | The battery applet seems to crash the top bar rather often, removing that applet makes it work for me. |
| 22:07.21 | Ghiottone | oh great! hopely we'll have a working gsmd soon! |
| 22:07.38 | Ghiottone | hhf423, is a qtopia or openmoko flash |
| 22:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:08.19 | vciaglia | seems that qtopia can receive sms and manage better the gsmd. Right? |
| 22:08.28 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: I am talking abiout the 07-10-19 OM flash image |
| 22:08.33 | hhf423 | from ScaredyCat |
| 22:11.20 | hhf423 | then again, why would the battery app kill the top bar? |
| 22:11.59 | hhf423 | ok, this looks like it has improved a bit over the last week, but maybe its just random :-) let me flash the latest qtopia |
| 22:16.04 | Psi_ | is it guaranteed not to work if you flash a smaller sized rootfs to the neo than what it currently has or is it just a possibility? |
| 22:17.20 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com) |
| 22:19.13 | hhf423 | oh, there is progress on GPS, great... |
| 22:19.16 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 22:19.32 | Ghiottone | on qtopia? what kind of progress? |
| 22:19.53 | hhf423 | oh, no. just in general, see the community mailing list |
| 22:20.20 | Ghiottone | oh the news that license issues have been solved and the chroot workarounded |
| 22:20.44 | SpeedEvil | si2: what is the I2C chip? |
| 22:20.46 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 22:21.01 | hhf423 | chroot workarounded? |
| 22:23.39 | Ghiottone | hhf423, yes the oabi chroot for gllin |
| 22:24.00 | Ghiottone | hhf423, this workaround has been reported to be working |
| 22:24.04 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: i tried to get this to work a while back, but was not able to |
| 22:24.18 | Ghiottone | hhf423, probably it will be distributed in that form |
| 22:24.39 | Ghiottone | hhf423, as for gta02 the have choosed another gps chip which is more open source friendly |
| 22:25.02 | hhf423 | yes, that I understand |
| 22:25.57 | Ghiottone | the program I'm trying to package requires header for the qte package |
| 22:26.11 | Ghiottone | I added it to the DEPENDS variable |
| 22:26.20 | Ghiottone | but include files are still not found |
| 22:26.22 | Ghiottone | any suggestion? |
| 22:27.54 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-29-98.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
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| 22:33.57 | Ghiottone | anyone can help? |
| 22:34.18 | hhf423 | oh: http://www.fluffyspider.com/resources/press/pr.20070925.0.html |
| 22:34.25 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: no idea, sorry |
| 22:36.33 | Ghiottone | what is that? virtualization technology?? |
| 22:38.38 | CM | Yes |
| 22:39.58 | Ghiottone | as in kvm and vmware or in java virtual machine? |
| 22:40.24 | *** join/#openmoko Pilgrim- (n=fake@142.232.144.65) |
| 22:40.45 | hhf423 | do they provide images? |
| 22:41.03 | hhf423 | anyways, I just dropped them a mail. maybe we can get an image to flash |
| 22:41.33 | *** join/#openmoko zblach (n=zblach@bas2-windsor12-1088707822.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 22:48.27 | superbnerb | if i can't wait for the openmoko, can anyone recommend a good blue tooth enabled phone that would work as an internet gateway for my laptop, on the train? |
| 22:48.42 | hhf423 | ok, will go to sleep now |
| 22:49.09 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:49.23 | hhf423 | superbnerb: just get yourself a sony ericsson k610i, which goes for less than 150 EUR and can do UMTS, GPRS and BT etc. |
| 22:49.56 | hhf423 | its a good "in between phones" phone |
| 22:50.40 | CM | superbnerb: Or a w610, they're nice too :-) |
| 22:51.18 | Ghiottone | I'm going to bed too. nite all |
| 22:51.20 | hhf423 | w610 costs 30 eur more, k610 can be had for 135 EUR in germany |
| 22:51.26 | CM | Night |
| 22:51.35 | hhf423 | good nite, too, from me. over and out |
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| 23:57.42 | superbnerb | i'm going to investigate these phones here in canada. thanks CM |
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