| 00:08.17 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-163-112.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 00:14.49 | *** part/#openmoko bewandered (n=johan@rgmadvisors.com) |
| 00:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-68-26.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
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| 00:25.15 | monkeyBox | anrp: what did you mean by "not quite a phone yet"? |
| 00:26.42 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60.241.37.3) |
| 00:27.13 | SpeedEvil | monkeyBox: perhaps that with OM - it's inferior to a nokia 1100 in almost every way? |
| 00:27.26 | SpeedEvil | (as a phone) |
| 00:27.43 | monkeyBox | what's "OM" ? |
| 00:27.50 | SpeedEvil | OpenMoko |
| 00:28.03 | SpeedEvil | The operating system on the Neo1973 phone |
| 00:28.22 | monkeyBox | oh |
| 00:28.58 | SpeedEvil | (it's the base model of nokia, with a small B+W screen) |
| 00:29.03 | monkeyBox | how could OM be inferior to nokia 1100, even as a phone? |
| 00:29.16 | SpeedEvil | Because the software is in pre-alpha at the moment. |
| 00:29.16 | monkeyBox | I mean, as long as you can dial a number and talk... |
| 00:29.22 | SpeedEvil | No SMS |
| 00:29.28 | mjr | monkeyBox, because you can't very reliably... |
| 00:29.34 | SpeedEvil | Terrible battery life. |
| 00:30.21 | SpeedEvil | (terrible as in some 6h standby) |
| 00:31.22 | sagacis_ | howdy all |
| 00:31.25 | monkeyBox | SpeedEvil: Are there any good (reliable) reviews out there on OpenMoko? I'm having trouble finding anything that gives good pro's and con's |
| 00:31.35 | monkeyBox | perhaps it's because OM isn't quite ready for primetime? |
| 00:31.47 | sagacis_ | Pros: Open. |
| 00:31.52 | SpeedEvil | monkeyBox: basically it's not in a reviewable state |
| 00:31.56 | sagacis_ | Cons: No working phone, gps, everything else. |
| 00:32.06 | SpeedEvil | monkeyBox: it's several months at best away from being there. |
| 00:32.12 | monkeyBox | oh, wow |
| 00:32.32 | SpeedEvil | GPS should work in the next week or so - legally apparently. |
| 00:32.56 | monkeyBox | their website doesn't seem to allude to that :-p |
| 00:33.33 | monkeyBox | oh, I misread |
| 00:33.38 | SpeedEvil | The webstore site had problems. |
| 00:33.38 | monkeyBox | it does allude to that :) |
| 00:33.45 | SpeedEvil | sagacis_: GPS is worldwide. |
| 00:34.05 | sagacis_ | SpeedEvil: Yes, but so's GSM, however, without 850, it only sorta works. ;) |
| 00:34.59 | mjr | gps is also the same freqs worldwide, not the US doing their own thing yet again (because, well, it is their own thing :] ) |
| 00:39.37 | ckuethe | "works" in this case refers to broken licensing, not broken technology |
| 00:40.42 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 00:41.59 | monkeyBox | bummer, looks like I came into the market for a cellphone a little early :) |
| 00:42.13 | monkeyBox | sounds like it could be a kickass phone before too long |
| 00:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z46c2.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:51.51 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-113-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:01.41 | *** part/#openmoko monkeyBox (n=ben@cpe-76-184-246-206.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 01:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko VUGO (i=vugo@gateway/tor/x-aaae5a1b2532e7bc) |
| 01:03.42 | *** join/#openmoko monkeyBox (n=ben@cpe-76-184-246-206.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 01:04.24 | monkeyBox | So, considering that openmoko is not ready for the public yet, what would you all consider to be "next best thing" ? |
| 01:04.33 | *** join/#openmoko pezed (n=chatzill@203-97-71-38.dsl.clear.net.nz) |
| 01:06.13 | mjr | a cheap-ass phone to bide the time |
| 01:07.27 | *** join/#openmoko enjahova_ (n=enjahova@c-68-35-225-183.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 01:08.08 | summatusmentis | for another year and a half? |
| 01:08.27 | summatusmentis | I worry that the neo will be outdated by the time it's generally available to the public |
| 01:09.00 | monkeyBox | Maybe I should just wait until someone figures out how to install linux on the helio ocean ;-) |
| 01:16.00 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-202-156.44-151.net24.it) |
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| 01:22.58 | enjahova_ | i don't think a phone with wifi and touchscreen with open platform will be outdated by december |
| 01:23.12 | *** join/#openmoko moprilo (n=nada@190.10.0.64) |
| 01:25.07 | summatusmentis | the software will be completely ready be Dec.? |
| 01:25.26 | enjahova_ | thats when gta02 ships supposedly |
| 01:25.39 | summatusmentis | according to old info, correct? |
| 01:25.50 | enjahova_ | i dunno |
| 01:25.53 | pezed | well, I think that non-3G phone is slightly outdated already |
| 01:26.07 | *** join/#openmoko eiko (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 01:26.29 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953ACA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:27.13 | moprilo | i haven't seen anything on the neo doing sip over wlan..? i think is a definately posible.. right? |
| 01:29.15 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 01:29.18 | SpeedEvil | There is no W |
| 01:29.30 | SpeedEvil | As to GTA02 - sure. |
| 01:29.48 | moprilo | jej, i forgot about that. |
| 01:29.54 | moprilo | well i hope so! |
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| 01:45.01 | ljp | qtopia has voip enabled. but I havent tested it |
| 01:45.04 | ljp | on the neo |
| 01:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
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| 01:56.08 | raster | moo |
| 01:56.20 | sagacis_ | moo-ya |
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| 02:01.13 | sagacis_ | Do we know if the gsm firmware update will resolve the 850-band issue? |
| 02:08.05 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
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| 03:16.24 | caligari_spain | hi everybody |
| 03:16.53 | *** join/#openmoko rajivr (n=rajivr@123.252.124.84) |
| 03:17.55 | caligari_spain | my Neo is dead now :-( |
| 03:18.28 | caligari_spain | can anybody help me to debug with jtag board? |
| 03:19.11 | *** join/#openmoko rajivr (n=rajivr@123.252.124.84) |
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| 04:24.24 | mopri | guys.. you think with the neo you could bluetooth audio to a car radio? |
| 04:25.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03jserv * r3199 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/shell.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 04:25.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=834 |
| 04:25.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: From: Kristian Mueller <kristian@mput.de> |
| 04:25.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Subject: [PATCH] libgsmd-tool does not allow sms with more than one word |
| 04:25.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: libgsmd-tool only allows for command strings without spaces. |
| 04:25.05 | CIA-23 | openmoko: SMS messages with more than one word will be parsed as multible commands. |
| 04:25.07 | CIA-23 | openmoko: The patch introduces SMS message text in bracket and fixes a NULL pointer |
| 04:27.02 | caligari_spain | mopri: yes, openmoko supports BT audio stream |
| 04:36.46 | CM | caligari_spain: Dead battery or broken u-boot? |
| 04:36.56 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:40.19 | caligari_spain | CM: battery seems ok (3.56V) |
| 04:41.53 | caligari_spain | CM: I have flashed u-boot, but it ran ok in the moment... |
| 04:42.10 | CM | ok.. |
| 04:42.46 | caligari_spain | :) debug board connected |
| 04:43.44 | caligari_spain | libftdi installed |
| 04:43.47 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__27 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-f1264e4a7a8134db) |
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| 04:46.07 | *** part/#openmoko rajivr (n=rajivr@123.252.124.84) |
| 04:46.12 | caligari_spain | compiling ftdi_eeprom: ftdi.h not found :-( |
| 04:47.33 | *** join/#openmoko linuxxr (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
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| 05:05.27 | caligari_spain | ftdi_eeprom compiled :-) |
| 05:08.56 | *** join/#openmoko nguenthe (n=nguenthe@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca) |
| 05:10.10 | nguenthe | So, I just got my neo1973 this morning for the win, but the GSM doesn't work. Currently I'm trying to cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 but it says permission denied. Hints? |
| 05:12.12 | caligari_spain | nguenthe: sudo chown uucp.uucp /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 05:13.00 | caligari_spain | sudo chown uucp.uucp /dev/ttySAC0 |
| 05:13.24 | CM | nguenthe: If you're ssh:ed into the neo, try using libgsmd-tool |
| 05:13.28 | caligari_spain | jeje on neo: try chown uucp.uucp /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 05:14.04 | nguenthe | huh. that's funny. it seems to have worked. |
| 05:14.07 | nguenthe | Thanks! |
| 05:14.39 | nguenthe | I thought I was root though, does cu drop privileges or something? |
| 05:15.27 | jserv-- | nguenthe, cu cares the file permission of /dev/ttyACM0. |
| 05:15.47 | jserv-- | nguenthe, cu makes use of access(2) for manipulating. |
| 05:17.04 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
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| 05:22.41 | nguenthe | jserv--, thanks. |
| 05:22.47 | caligari_spain | eh! my neo is booting again! |
| 05:23.30 | nguenthe | I'm trying via ssh now and of course I can't access ttuSAC0 directly |
| 05:23.31 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@71-215-217-29.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 05:23.58 | nguenthe | so I'm trying to use libgsmd-tool but it's not working because gsmd doesn't like to run on my neo |
| 05:24.19 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@adsl-76-208-209-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:24.48 | jserv-- | nguenthe, maybe you can try /etc/init.d/gsmd restart. |
| 05:25.33 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 05:28.14 | mbuf | Hopscotch, good morning |
| 05:28.54 | mbuf | nguenthe, i always restart gsmd before testing it |
| 05:32.55 | *** join/#openmoko HopsNBarley (n=hops@nslu2-linux/HopsNBarley) |
| 05:35.32 | mopri | does anyone see themselves finger typing some ssh commands?.. like on the road? |
| 05:37.22 | mbuf | mopri, depends on how easy it is to type |
| 05:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko KmiKze (n=KmiKze@brutus.fragtime.net) |
| 05:41.02 | caligari_spain | howto translate openmoko-* ? |
| 05:44.01 | CM | caligari_spain: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Translation_HOWTO ? :) |
| 05:48.53 | caligari_spain | thank you CM |
| 05:50.11 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host227-218-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 05:50.37 | caligari_spain | i am discovering last changes: clock panel, media player out, panels bar stable... great! |
| 05:53.00 | *** join/#openmoko meldianen (n=vincent@ANancy-155-1-55-194.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 05:53.06 | nguenthe | caligari_spain: what version is that |
| 05:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko egypt (n=egypt@69.92.69.52) |
| 05:55.30 | caligari_spain | nguenthe: today, 5 hours ago |
| 05:55.48 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.96.195) |
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| 06:03.34 | CM | caligari_spain: Is the browser included in the roofs now? (Wasn't yesterday) |
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| 06:05.03 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03jserv * r3200 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/ (gsmd/sms_pdu.c util/event.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 06:05.03 | CIA-23 | openmoko: SMS status report |
| 06:05.03 | CIA-23 | openmoko: From: Erin Yueh <erin_yueh@openmoko.com> |
| 06:05.03 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Subject: [PATCH] SMS status report |
| 06:05.03 | CIA-23 | openmoko: I made a patch for SMS status report. It can change SMS-Submit messages |
| 06:05.05 | CIA-23 | openmoko: and ask for a status report. When the destination address receives our |
| 06:05.09 | CIA-23 | openmoko: message, the service center will send a SMS-STATUS-REPORT to us. We can |
| 06:09.00 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03jserv * r3201 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 5 dirs): |
| 06:09.00 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Added 'Ask Status report' option in shell. |
| 06:09.00 | CIA-23 | openmoko: From: Andrzej Zaborowski <balrogg@gmail.com> |
| 06:09.00 | CIA-23 | openmoko: I also moved the .ask_ds field from struct gsmd_sms into struct |
| 06:09.00 | CIA-23 | openmoko: gsmd_sms_submit because it seemed more logical being a property |
| 06:09.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: of SMS-SUBMIT PDU. |
| 06:13.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03jserv * r3202 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 4 dirs): |
| 06:13.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Improvement for find and read phonebooks in gsmd. |
| 06:13.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: From: Sean Chiang <sean_chiang@openmoko.com> |
| 06:13.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Subject: [PATCH] Improvement for find and read phonebooks in gsmd |
| 06:13.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: This patch is an improvement for find and read phonebooks. |
| 06:13.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: After clients make a request to find / read phonebooks, then clients |
| 06:13.18 | CIA-23 | openmoko: should make a request to retrieve all the records. |
| 06:14.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03jserv * r3203 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/shell.c: |
| 06:14.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Improvement for finding / reading phonebook records in shell. |
| 06:14.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: From: Sean Chiang <sean_chiang@openmoko.com> |
| 06:14.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Subject: [PATCH] improvement for find and read phonebooks in shell |
| 06:14.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: This patch improves the functions to find and read phonebooks in shell. |
| 06:14.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Besides prr and pf, I add two new commands pRr and pRf to retrieve the |
| 06:14.50 | caligari_spain | CM: i can't see browsers, an input manager in utilities (does not work) and a new terminal (tabs on top and tab navigator) |
| 06:14.53 | CIA-23 | openmoko: phonebook. |
| 06:15.26 | CM | caligari_spain: Hmm.. XorA|gone said he added it yesterday. Maybe he didn't |
| 06:17.51 | caligari_spain | bye bye, see you |
| 06:18.01 | *** part/#openmoko caligari_spain (n=caligari@46.pool85-56-197.dynamic.orange.es) |
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| 06:43.42 | Sup3rkiddo | projects.openmoko.org is down? |
| 06:43.55 | Sup3rkiddo | never mind, works now |
| 06:45.55 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 06:46.36 | zash | tröttheten! |
| 06:47.08 | *** join/#openmoko foomil_ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-077-227-028.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 06:48.52 | CM | zash: Den är enorm.. :P |
| 06:49.23 | zash | stackars fan :( |
| 06:50.39 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 06:50.49 | CM | Nja, så går det när man spelar biljard och dricker öl på en tisdagkväll.. ;) |
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| 06:51.53 | zash | bork bork me not like 08-17 bork bork bork |
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| 07:26.28 | CM | XorA: Good morning |
| 07:26.37 | XorA | morning CM |
| 07:26.41 | Henryk | Moin |
| 07:26.46 | CM | Did you add the openmoko-browser2 to the rootfs? |
| 07:26.47 | XorA | CM: browser is defineately in new images |
| 07:26.55 | *** join/#openmoko cdm (n=cdm@pool-71-116-92-149.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 07:26.58 | CM | Hmm.. Ok, rebuilding again now :) |
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| 07:27.39 | CM | NOTE: package openmoko-browser2-0.0.1+svnr3082: completed :D |
| 07:28.29 | afoo | hi, I am just starting to play around with my neo, I managed to flash the device, but cannot seem to see where the keyboard is |
| 07:28.39 | afoo | it does not automatically appear |
| 07:29.00 | *** join/#openmoko seeinguser (n=blindcod@pallas.crash-override.net) |
| 07:29.30 | CM | XorA: Would there be anything bad including a /etc/resolv.conf having only "nameserver 192.168.0.200" in the default rootfs? |
| 07:29.55 | CM | Or should that be handled some other way? |
| 07:30.24 | XorA | CM: there is a patch for that, but it wasnt quite right, /etc/resolvconf should be a ling to /var/run/resolv.conf which I think should be generated from /etc/network/interfaces |
| 07:30.36 | XorA | CM: it used to work once, I dont know why it stopped |
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| 07:30.54 | CM | afoo: Either it appears, or you can press the small keyboard icon in the panel |
| 07:31.02 | CM | XorA: Ok, thanks |
| 07:31.18 | XorA | CM: will try and look into it today |
| 07:32.43 | afoo | CM, I heard there was a keyboard icon in the bottom middle, but I do not see anything, for example even in the Today screenshot on openmoko, I do not see any keyboard icon |
| 07:32.51 | afoo | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Today |
| 07:33.12 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 07:33.20 | CM | afoo: That's a very old screenshot |
| 07:33.32 | CM | afoo: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 07:35.17 | afoo | CM: I would say my interface looks more like the old screenshot |
| 07:35.28 | afoo | Is there a way to update the software? |
| 07:35.34 | CM | XorA: /etc/network/interfaces does have 192.168.0.200 as gateway, but I don't have any /var/run/resolv.conf |
| 07:35.41 | CM | afoo: Sure is :) |
| 07:36.04 | CM | afoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 07:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 07:36.40 | Henryk | afoo: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/2d1550f3c8bb3cb9bb539c7c5d576fe6.png is a more current snapshot. (though it's missing the bar at the top: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/60ae49591f783c8af857e496f2809c3e.png) |
| 07:36.54 | mbuf | is /var mounted on NAND flash on Neo1973? |
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| 07:38.00 | CM | afoo: Don't flash a new uboot unless you really need it and know what you're doing. But play around with kernel and rootfs :) |
| 07:38.14 | afoo | CM: okay, thanks |
| 07:39.12 | CM | afoo: I'm running these images now: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/2007.2/ |
| 07:39.14 | afoo | (and to Henryk as well) |
| 07:39.34 | CM | afoo: Or use ScaredyCat's from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D |
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| 07:41.52 | *** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 07:41.55 | mbuf | why does the Neo1973 reboot while it has been idle for few minutes, and when connected to the PC through USB? |
| 07:42.50 | LittleIdiot | i experienced that as well and blamed it on the battery... |
| 07:42.55 | CM | mbuf: Mine doesnt.. Do you have powermanagement turned on? |
| 07:42.59 | LittleIdiot | but not certain |
| 07:43.14 | CM | Mine was on for 6 days connected to usb |
| 07:43.34 | CM | without using it any that is. |
| 07:43.47 | mbuf | CM, how do i check that? |
| 07:44.00 | CM | mbuf: Hold in the power button so you get up the menu |
| 07:44.10 | CM | I have Dim only selected |
| 07:44.11 | mbuf | CM, i usually keep it connected for 10-12 hours a day; it says "Profile: No PM" |
| 07:44.27 | CM | Hmm, ok. I've tried that one too |
| 07:44.58 | mbuf | CM, even otherwise, why would it reboot; it should just suspend and resume |
| 07:45.04 | mbuf | *would it reboot? |
| 07:45.45 | CM | Just heard that it's been trouble suspending and waking up, so guessed it could have something to do with that |
| 07:46.02 | mbuf | ok |
| 07:49.44 | *** join/#openmoko Cyorxamp (n=Cyorxamp@212.57.232.254) |
| 07:50.16 | Cyorxamp | Lo, does anyone know where I can find information on what (I'm guessing) is the GTA03 ? i.e. The one with WiFi and also CDMA capabilities? |
| 07:50.17 | Henryk | hmpf, "ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-ui: xserver-kdrive-common" |
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| 07:54.37 | CM | Cyorxamp: GTA03 is only vague rumours so far |
| 07:54.54 | Cyorxamp | :( |
| 07:55.15 | Cyorxamp | CDMA is totally a must, I don't care about GSM - it's dead compared to CDMA with VoIP |
| 07:55.30 | CM | Cyorxamp: No. |
| 07:55.51 | CM | Cyorxamp: In the US maybe, but that's only a small part of the world |
| 07:55.58 | Cyorxamp | The UK too |
| 07:56.30 | Cyorxamp | In fact _especially_ in the UK... all of our analogue phone lines are going to be switched off by 2012 and everyone will be on VoIP |
| 07:56.44 | Cyorxamp | So taking your VoIP number with you (since everyone will have one) is a must |
| 07:56.45 | Henryk | does anybody else except the US use anything besides GSM? |
| 07:57.05 | CM | UMTS |
| 07:58.16 | Mek | japan/korea also don't use gsm... |
| 07:58.22 | Cyorxamp | UMTS is CMDA |
| 07:58.35 | Henryk | well UMTS is only considered as a GSM upgrade |
| 07:58.53 | CM | Not really |
| 07:59.34 | ScaredyCat | a /me prods CM |
| 07:59.39 | ScaredyCat | -a of course |
| 08:00.12 | ScaredyCat | ever seen ttyacm0 not appear |
| 08:00.21 | Henryk | for most practical purposes I'd consider UMTS as a proper subset of GSM (coverage-wise) |
| 08:00.45 | Cyorxamp | An always on CDMA capable device would become my temporary fix until WiMax |
| 08:01.25 | Cyorxamp | UMTS combines the W-CDMA, TD-CDMA, or TD-SCDMA air interfaces |
| 08:01.50 | Cyorxamp | Whats and how what is sent down it is GSM... but thats at the choice of the devices using that radio technology |
| 08:02.00 | Cyorxamp | i.e. The codec |
| 08:02.36 | CM | Cyorxamp: You're right on that :) |
| 08:04.35 | CM | Wikipedia also says that 82% of the global mobile market uses GSM |
| 08:04.51 | CM | By over 2 billion people.. |
| 08:05.15 | Cyorxamp | Sure GSM isn't something to be dropped... just something I'm not concerned with looking ahead |
| 08:05.40 | CM | I agree, I want UMTS or better, but I guess that will take a while |
| 08:06.19 | ScaredyCat | aahaaa! |
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| 08:14.23 | mbuf | Cyorxamp, doesn't WiMax consume lot of power compared to the other mobile technologies in the market? |
| 08:14.37 | Cyorxamp | No idea :P |
| 08:14.51 | Cyorxamp | Ask Wikipedia :P |
| 08:15.50 | zash | or google |
| 08:16.31 | Cyorxamp | I wouldn't be surprised if 'wiki' becomes the next google, hoover, or xerox :D |
| 08:16.39 | Cyorxamp | Go wiki it! |
| 08:17.11 | egypt | The Hitch Hiker's Wiki to the Galaxy |
| 08:17.24 | Cyorxamp | :D |
| 08:17.40 | CM | Cyorxamp: Or wp ;) I always use wp <query> in firefox |
| 08:17.46 | Cyorxamp | GO GO register that domain and don't return until theres a working intergalactic web site :D |
| 08:18.30 | zash | w $query -> google("$query site:wikipedia.org") |
| 08:18.33 | Cyorxamp | Well Oxford dictionary has google, xerox and hoover, I wouldn't be surprised if wiki is next. |
| 08:18.48 | egypt | it would be an exact mirror of wikipedia except for the entry for Earth |
| 08:18.54 | CM | I don't like Broadcom, but this looks like a neat chip: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8838596703.html |
| 08:18.58 | Cyorxamp | Anyways gotta get back to work :D |
| 08:19.08 | egypt | which would be just two words: "Mostly harmless" |
| 08:21.27 | Henryk | Cyorxamp: i would, because "wiki" is generic for "editable website" (kindof). only wikipedia is wikipedia. |
| 08:21.54 | egypt | and it's kind of awkward as a verb |
| 08:22.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03jserv * r3204 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/include/libgsmd/misc.h: Expose lgsm_signal_quality in order to replace lgsm_get_signal_quality. |
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| 08:29.20 | masterbrian | greetings :) |
| 08:29.37 | masterbrian | I'm having problems compiling openmoko from mokomakefile. |
| 08:29.45 | masterbrian | I've problem with packet midori |
| 08:30.03 | masterbrian | I've followed the procedure and attempet to compile the packet 3 times before asking ;) |
| 08:30.08 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@158.102.66.32) |
| 08:30.16 | masterbrian | I've found no bugs open in bugzilla about that problem |
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| 08:31.36 | masterbrian | anyone can help? |
| 08:33.31 | ScaredyCat | does it kick out errors with webkit ? |
| 08:33.44 | masterbrian | yes |
| 08:33.54 | paulproteus | CM, I felt the same way re: Broadcom and that chip. |
| 08:34.01 | masterbrian | something like: document.h:51: error: expected declaration specifiers or '...' before 'WebKitGtkFrame' |
| 08:34.30 | ScaredyCat | ok, so this is the same prblem i have masterbrian - this is the problem with us using a dev/head version of the oe stuff... |
| 08:34.38 | Henryk | easiest solution: edit openembedded/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb and remove the line that reads midori \ |
| 08:35.10 | Henryk | i'd wage a guess that probably everybody has the problem, except maybe srcrev-insane users |
| 08:35.54 | masterbrian | Henryk: but I can remove package without breaking my openmoko-image? |
| 08:36.00 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 08:36.11 | ScaredyCat | midori is a web browser... |
| 08:36.19 | ScaredyCat | you don't need it |
| 08:36.22 | masterbrian | oh... ok :) |
| 08:36.23 | ScaredyCat | for stuff to work |
| 08:36.31 | ScaredyCat | it's just annoying that it's broken |
| 08:36.40 | masterbrian | but I should open a bug? because I've found no one about that problem... |
| 08:36.56 | ScaredyCat | it's an OE issue not an OM issue |
| 08:36.56 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-103-192.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 08:37.17 | masterbrian | Understood, very clear, thank you |
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| 08:41.40 | Ghiottone|work | good morning |
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| 08:42.11 | ScaredyCat | nin |
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| 08:57.38 | CM | paulproteus: If they released the specs for it, it would be nice to have in a GTA03 or so :) |
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| 08:58.27 | XorA | masterbrian: midori builds now, but wont run for me |
| 09:00.38 | paulproteus | CM, Agreed! |
| 09:01.41 | paulproteus | But "all I want" right now is this power-invalid-state bug fixed so I can use the Neo as a phone full-time without having to let it sit for 10h before recharging it. |
| 09:01.46 | CM | paulproteus: Agreed! :D |
| 09:02.26 | CM | Also, to actually be able to play with the GPS would be fun, since that was one of the main features of GTA01... |
| 09:02.58 | paulproteus | Did they have to change the GPS module? |
| 09:03.05 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 09:03.14 | paulproteus | I see that the topic says they'll use an Atmel chip. Is that different from the past? |
| 09:03.24 | CM | Yes, it's different |
| 09:03.26 | mjr | it's different |
| 09:03.40 | CM | The first chip was from Global Locate, who got bought by Broadcom.. |
| 09:03.56 | CM | And when they changed from oabi to eabi, the blob didn't work any more |
| 09:04.53 | paulproteus | Man, life is hard. |
| 09:05.12 | paulproteus | I just saw the series of handhelds/phones made by HTC (and discussed in #htc-linux) and noticed that OM software runs on many of them. |
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| 09:30.10 | Stephmw | yo. |
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| 09:44.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 944 has been created by sudharsh(AT)gmail.com |
| 09:44.02 | cdbot2 | * * unction name of the prototype in misc.h and libgsmd_network.c |
| 09:44.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=944 |
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| 10:12.18 | abraxa_ | XorA: You around? |
| 10:13.29 | XorA | abraxa_: no :-D |
| 10:14.00 | abraxa_ | Oh okay :( |
| 10:14.20 | XorA | abraxa_: whats up |
| 10:14.21 | abraxa_ | Well, when you're around, can you have a look at http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3155 ;) |
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| 10:15.55 | XorA | abraxa_: looks fairly obvuious, but nothing gst based ever works for me |
| 10:16.23 | abraxa_ | "nothing gst-based ever works for me"? |
| 10:16.26 | abraxa_ | In what sense? :O |
| 10:16.43 | XorA | never got a gst based player running in OM or ANgstrom |
| 10:17.31 | abraxa_ | Does that imply you never got openmoko-mediaplayer2 to run also? |
| 10:18.31 | XorA | abraxa_: yes |
| 10:19.06 | abraxa_ | Surprises me - I'd like to figure out why whenever you got some time |
| 10:19.32 | XorA | comes up with an error box that says cannot create resource |
| 10:19.49 | XorA | Im using the wrong GTA at the moment to debug it |
| 10:19.54 | CM | Or the error shows so quickly you can't even read it |
| 10:19.57 | *** join/#openmoko lal1 (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 10:22.55 | abraxa_ | CM: The "dialog closes itself" bug was fixed in SVN quite a while ago actually |
| 10:23.15 | CM | I know, but I've been too lazy to build it from svn ;) |
| 10:23.22 | abraxa_ | hehe |
| 10:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@ap164118.wlan.jku.at) |
| 10:23.49 | CM | OM is unstable everywher anyway, and a stable/unstable split of it would be nice |
| 10:23.52 | abraxa_ | XorA: When you get a spare minute I'd like you to try doing an "ipkg install gst-plugin-pulse" and trying the player again |
| 10:24.12 | XorA | abraxa_: that should be in images be default now |
| 10:24.26 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@ap164118.wlan.jku.at) |
| 10:24.46 | abraxa_ | XorA: Yeah, just your installation will lack it unless your image is new enough (which I don't know) :) |
| 10:25.02 | XorA | abraxa_: my image is after mickey|zzZZzz fixed that |
| 10:25.10 | abraxa_ | Ahh |
| 10:25.11 | abraxa_ | Hm. |
| 10:25.12 | XorA | abraxa_: Im doing a build once every 30 mins or so |
| 10:25.52 | abraxa_ | Maybe gstreamer just *really* hates you ;) |
| 10:26.03 | abraxa_ | I'll see about it when I can, though |
| 10:26.38 | CM | Why is there an esd.conf in /etc/ when it's not running? |
| 10:26.48 | XorA | abraxa_: are you the author? |
| 10:26.55 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87.234.195.67) |
| 10:27.04 | abraxa_ | XorA: Of the media player, yeah |
| 10:27.18 | XorA | abraxa_: ah cool, Ill give you a shout when I figure it out |
| 10:27.26 | abraxa_ | XorA: Great :) |
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| 10:27.42 | XorA | abraxa_: Im convinced to put that patch in as soon as I can do due diligence on it |
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| 10:28.40 | abraxa_ | That's fine, having it in at the same time as the new GUI would be a nice surprise for folks ;) |
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| 10:38.18 | mickeyl | is it me or has someone broken the ringtone? |
| 10:38.26 | mickeyl | i only get vibration |
| 10:41.24 | Ghiottone|work | is package qte broken? |
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| 10:46.34 | aag7fa2L | counter |
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| 11:00.07 | ScaredyCat | mickeyl: that's all we've ever had :) |
| 11:00.26 | mickeyl | hmm interesting. it rang for a couple of weeks |
| 11:00.31 | mickeyl | now it no longer |
| 11:05.08 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: alphaone added some speaker button audio alsa state change thingy. |
| 11:05.08 | *** join/#openmoko pezed (n=Miranda@125-238-1-234.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) |
| 11:05.42 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Normally I would not think he break things, but thats the only one I would suspect in the ringing area |
| 11:06.35 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: hmm. ok |
| 11:08.09 | pvanhoof | maybe the sound file is not on the fs :)? |
| 11:13.06 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: Have you gone deaf? |
| 11:13.18 | pvanhoof | oh yes, that's also a possibility |
| 11:13.33 | mickeyl | no, i can still hear the startup sound |
| 11:13.51 | pvanhoof | selectively deaf? |
| 11:14.07 | CM | I don't have any start up sound |
| 11:14.14 | pvanhoof | perhaps change the ringtone to the sound-track of a porn movie? |
| 11:14.22 | SpeedEvil | Oh Yes! |
| 11:14.43 | CVirus | LOL .. nerds |
| 11:14.56 | pvanhoof | at your service CVirus |
| 11:14.58 | cjb_ie | record your own! |
| 11:15.06 | CM | movie? |
| 11:16.03 | CM | Is there any sound recorder app for OpenMoko? Could be quite useful. |
| 11:16.08 | SpeedEvil | cat |
| 11:17.03 | CM | SpeedEvil: :P I was thinking more like a simple gui where you can select encoding and bitrate, and start-stop with a button :) |
| 11:17.15 | SpeedEvil | Wow, you're picky :) |
| 11:17.22 | SpeedEvil | Wanting an actual GUI! Whatever next. |
| 11:17.27 | SpeedEvil | Would be nice. |
| 11:17.41 | pvanhoof | last time I tried using the terminal on my openmoko, the keyboard didn't appear. so that "cat" ui ain't usable :-\ |
| 11:17.57 | SpeedEvil | Voice detection dropping it into dated files'd be nice. |
| 11:18.03 | CM | I think the keyboard has worked pretty well the last few weeks |
| 11:18.24 | pvanhoof | I'll need to reflash one of these days, I'll retry it :) |
| 11:19.03 | CM | pvanhoof: Any rumor about an openmoko mail client? ;) |
| 11:19.39 | pvanhoof | If I would know about that, and tell you, I would have to kil... no that's what Nokia wanted us to say |
| 11:19.41 | pvanhoof | eum :) |
| 11:19.44 | pvanhoof | Ask mickeyl |
| 11:19.54 | CM | Hehe.. Ok, I will :) |
| 11:20.05 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.1.fullrate.dk) |
| 11:20.20 | pvanhoof | You can tryout Modest on a n800 already though |
| 11:20.46 | CM | I've seen it but not tried it, don't have a n800. |
| 11:20.49 | pvanhoof | but it heavily depends on hildon right now |
| 11:21.02 | mickeyl | odds are likely that there will be a tinymail based client for OM soonish |
| 11:21.13 | pvanhoof | you could try it out by installing Chinook in a scratchbox |
| 11:22.15 | pvanhoof | CM, but I'm pretty sure you can make tny-demoui run with few effort on your openmoko |
| 11:22.32 | CM | Hmm.. Would be fun to try that |
| 11:23.08 | pvanhoof | relatively sure, as there's nearly nothing that doesn't compile. Just need to deploy it and try I guess :) |
| 11:23.10 | pvanhoof | :p |
| 11:24.04 | pvanhoof | and if things like gconf are a problem, you can use --with-platform=olpc, which uses a .ini file in $HOME/.tinymail for its configuration |
| 11:24.18 | pvanhoof | I'll make a libtinymail-openmoko soon :) |
| 11:24.31 | CM | Ah, nice :) |
| 11:26.39 | *** join/#openmoko angel (n=angel@201.62.29.32) |
| 11:26.41 | *** join/#openmoko mlpug (n=mlpug__@a88-115-165-32.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:26.53 | angel | oi |
| 11:27.04 | angel | quem esta aÃ? |
| 11:27.27 | CM | angel: No entiendo.. :P |
| 11:27.42 | angel | mira que tal |
| 11:27.52 | cjb_ie | no hablo portugues :( |
| 11:27.53 | angel | ustes és de onde? |
| 11:27.59 | angel | madre de dios |
| 11:28.06 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.103.2) |
| 11:28.22 | cjb_ie | madre de dios no esta aà :p |
| 11:28.31 | CM | Hehe |
| 11:29.01 | pvanhoof | We need auto-translators. Babelfish like |
| 11:29.29 | CM | babel goggles |
| 11:29.59 | pvanhoof | I liked the cute fishes more :) (especially in the movie) |
| 11:30.00 | angel | olá |
| 11:30.03 | angel | kakkakakakak |
| 11:30.08 | cjb_ie | CM: like beer goggles, but different |
| 11:30.32 | pvanhoof | kak in dutch means : to shit (on something), is this what you mean angel ? |
| 11:30.49 | Kliment | now attach a camera to a neo and make a relaity augmentation tool |
| 11:30.52 | pvanhoof | I know babelfishes 'kak' in my ears :) |
| 11:30.58 | Kliment | that, yes, does translations for you |
| 11:31.00 | CM | cjb_ie: I wonder what google's automatic translation would do when you mix languages |
| 11:31.11 | cjb_ie | CM: run in circles, scream and shout? |
| 11:31.13 | Kliment | CM: it picks one |
| 11:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87.234.195.67) |
| 11:31.40 | pvanhoof | Kliment, speech recognition sends to google/babelfish and speeches the translated text while talking (in two directions)? |
| 11:31.44 | pvanhoof | sounds like doable to implement this :) |
| 11:31.47 | CM | Kliment: Hmm.. It shouldn't have to. Iirc it's purely using statistics and heuristics |
| 11:31.55 | angel | gente de Deus onde tem um canal em português |
| 11:31.57 | angel | ??????????/ |
| 11:31.58 | cjb_ie | is there a recognised way to tag language in HTML? as in, with less scope than entire document? |
| 11:32.10 | CM | angel: English please |
| 11:32.21 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@d1-129.dip.axsp.de) |
| 11:32.25 | Kliment | CM: it uses classification methods to figure out the original language |
| 11:32.26 | cjb_ie | CM: inte svenska? :p |
| 11:32.39 | CM | cjb_ie: Nej! bork bork bork.. |
| 11:32.43 | pvanhoof | hey, I'm totally pro multi cultures and multi languages. But indeed, let's stick to english :) |
| 11:32.53 | cjb_ie | pvanhoof: ja, dat klopt |
| 11:32.58 | pvanhoof | gelijk heb je |
| 11:33.04 | CM | genau.. |
| 11:33.08 | Kliment | CM: once classified it uses the language context to make more accurate guesses about translations |
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| 11:33.29 | Kliment | guys, I'm fluent in finnish, bulgarian, and english and can manage a fair bit of german, swedish and dutch |
| 11:33.38 | Kliment | I don't think you want to hear that mix |
| 11:34.08 | pvanhoof | I speak Nederlands, to parle le French too? |
| 11:34.16 | pvanhoof | Sounds like Brussels |
| 11:34.17 | cjb_ie | Kliment: zdraveite! |
| 11:34.25 | CM | Kliment: *nod* Makes sense.. But it should be possible to disregard that and only try to identify words, then classify each sentence |
| 11:34.58 | pvanhoof | s/to/tu of course |
| 11:34.59 | Kliment | CM: the whole point of the translation engine is to use context to predict a correct sentence |
| 11:35.10 | Henryk | cjb_ie: <span lang="..." xml:lang="..."> ... </span> |
| 11:35.11 | Kliment | CM: word for word translations don't make sense |
| 11:35.23 | Kliment | Henryk: indeed, but who does that? |
| 11:35.32 | CM | Kliment: No, but sentences might be good enough |
| 11:35.32 | Henryk | me |
| 11:35.53 | Kliment | ah indeed |
| 11:35.54 | pvanhoof | Let's propose <span context=""> at w3c then :) |
| 11:36.11 | Kliment | I once played around with language prediction |
| 11:36.21 | Kliment | and been reading a fair bit about it the last few weeks |
| 11:36.35 | CM | I find it very interesting too |
| 11:36.52 | CM | But I haven't read about it for quite a while. Need to catch up again |
| 11:36.55 | angel | oi |
| 11:37.01 | pvanhoof | Well, my gf is studying languages to become a translator. She told me translation software is a huge market for just the translators |
| 11:37.05 | pvanhoof | they all use it as aid |
| 11:37.22 | pvanhoof | and the softwares, like systran, cost really a lot (the good versions of it) |
| 11:37.28 | CM | pvanhoof: Must be much quicker if you need to bulk translate text |
| 11:37.38 | cjb_ie | yeah, one of my exes did linguistics - seriously brain-hurting subject |
| 11:37.41 | CM | Automate it, then fix up the sentences where needed |
| 11:37.58 | pvanhoof | CM, yes but even the best software translators produce text that can't be used in for example movie subtitles or book translations |
| 11:37.58 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-179-180.42-151.net24.it) |
| 11:38.12 | pvanhoof | indeed, so they fix all |
| 11:38.28 | pvanhoof | and they of course have, when they move their cursor over a text, suggestion-panes and things like that |
| 11:39.11 | pvanhoof | They usually get payed per translated word |
| 11:39.44 | pvanhoof | And the very best in that world get to do live translations, for example at the European union in Brussels |
| 11:39.54 | pvanhoof | but that's really hard |
| 11:40.30 | CM | A small dictionary tool using some online source like m-w for english or google translate could be nice to have on a phone |
| 11:40.30 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 11:40.32 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@2001:618:1a23:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 11:40.52 | hrw | pvanhoof: yes. I remember when one friend told me that for one weekend of live translation se gets more then I for two months |
| 11:40.59 | pvanhoof | Anyway, opensource lacks these tools :) so I usually have to install vmware on her computers |
| 11:41.21 | pvanhoof | hrw, she (he) does this as a freelance? |
| 11:41.46 | pvanhoof | I'm trying to persuade my gf to go self employed , or at least figure out how this world works in .be (and .nl) |
| 11:41.54 | hrw | pvanhoof: freelance few years ago - now I do not know |
| 11:42.25 | CM | Also, two months pay is very different in different countries. |
| 11:42.27 | pvanhoof | oh, she'd love to get in touch with this person, so if you have his contact details and can give them to me .. that would be awesome :) |
| 11:43.19 | Kliment | one of my english teachers back in high school did simultaneous translation for the EC |
| 11:43.32 | CM | pvanhoof: Are there no university research projects or similar that are open source and good enough or at least promising? |
| 11:43.41 | CM | For translating text that is |
| 11:43.46 | Kliment | pvanhoof: vlaams? |
| 11:43.46 | pvanhoof | CM, in the netherlands it's quite a lot. But if this person was self employed, hrw has to subtract 50% of the bruto price to get the netto one (a huge amount of your profits go to taxes in Europe) |
| 11:43.52 | pvanhoof | Kliment, yes |
| 11:44.03 | Kliment | my neo is in Leuven at the moment |
| 11:44.12 | hrw | pvanhoof: 50%? |
| 11:44.15 | pvanhoof | CM, systran is the most known software for translators I think |
| 11:44.21 | CM | ok |
| 11:44.23 | hrw | pvanhoof: in Poland we ave 19/30/40% tax |
| 11:44.34 | pvanhoof | on profits? |
| 11:44.45 | hrw | pvanhoof: yes |
| 11:44.47 | Kliment | company tax is pretty heavy, yeah |
| 11:44.57 | hrw | as company I have linear 19% tax |
| 11:45.13 | CM | Sweden is around 33/56% depending on income |
| 11:45.23 | cb22__ | 56% tax? ouch |
| 11:45.26 | CM | Don't know about company taxes |
| 11:45.26 | Kliment | I am not sure what it is in germany |
| 11:45.31 | hrw | CM: Sweden is socialist country |
| 11:45.34 | Kliment | I've only been here two months |
| 11:45.35 | pvanhoof | In Belgium it depends, but if you are a one-person company you basically pay all your profits to yourself automatically. And that means that the "personen belastingen" will be also something like that, but 16,30,40,50% I think (all over 16,000 euros is +50%) |
| 11:45.56 | pvanhoof | if you are a Ltd. in Belgium, you pay yourself a salary, but the company pays taxes on the profits too |
| 11:46.08 | Kliment | pvanhoof: unless they are reinvested |
| 11:46.12 | pvanhoof | indeed |
| 11:46.23 | pvanhoof | but a translator probably does not have a lot of things to invest in |
| 11:46.26 | Kliment | the prime method of tax evasion, I've heard |
| 11:46.29 | pvanhoof | just like a software developer (like me) |
| 11:46.30 | CM | cb22: For your pay over 3000EUR per month you pay more and more tax, up to 56% |
| 11:46.32 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 11:46.34 | Kliment | automatic dictionaries :) |
| 11:46.37 | pvanhoof | we can buy laptops ... |
| 11:46.40 | pvanhoof | yes, true |
| 11:46.48 | cb22 | that must suck |
| 11:46.49 | Kliment | thus they are very expensive |
| 11:46.50 | pvanhoof | but once that's payed for the next 5 years .. |
| 11:46.55 | pvanhoof | exactly |
| 11:47.04 | cb22 | south africa's max is 40% AFAIK |
| 11:47.09 | cb22 | and for companies a lower, flat rate |
| 11:47.13 | Kliment | pvanhoof: where in flandres are you? |
| 11:47.14 | CM | cb22: Hehe.. You can't get rich working, it's just not possible |
| 11:47.31 | pvanhoof | Kliment, the province of Antwerp, near Turnhout in a village called Oud-Turnhout |
| 11:47.43 | Kliment | yeah, I know the area |
| 11:47.49 | Kliment | never been there though |
| 11:47.50 | pvanhoof | Oud is old dutch for Hout or wood, so it means Wood around turnhout |
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| 11:48.31 | pvanhoof | today "oud" is the dutch word for "old" , but our village's history records indicate that it meant wood when the name was given |
| 11:48.43 | pvanhoof | :) |
| 11:48.44 | Kliment | one of my favorite parts of europe, on both sides of the broder |
| 11:48.48 | Kliment | border* |
| 11:48.54 | cjb_ie | oud -> hout? - interesting |
| 11:49.19 | pvanhoof | cjb_ie, yes, either it was a wood or a watchtower for protection. They're not sure about that |
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| 11:49.36 | Kliment | I wonder if oud-heusden is the same way |
| 11:49.49 | pvanhoof | Depends on the age of the village I guess |
| 11:50.04 | Kliment | it's around heusden, which is a very amusing town |
| 11:50.10 | Kliment | lots of straight lines |
| 11:50.12 | pvanhoof | It's for Turnhout not the case that the city Turnhout relocated from where Oud-Turnhout was to where Turnhout is now |
| 11:50.22 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3205 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/data/ (gtkrc openmoko-calculator openmoko-dialer): * Add gtk-color-scheme support |
| 11:50.54 | pvanhoof | And very few (if any) European city ever relocated. Most just grew like a spider's-web |
| 11:51.09 | pvanhoof | cities |
| 11:51.40 | Kliment | well, there have been cases of floods and fires where the rebuilding started from a different spot |
| 11:51.50 | pvanhoof | aha, yes. that's indeed possible |
| 11:51.52 | Kliment | and thus the entire city shifted |
| 11:52.02 | Kliment | very often in NL :) |
| 11:52.21 | pvanhoof | Well, we have the "Manenblussers" in Mechelen :) |
| 11:52.26 | Kliment | in fact, heusden is an artificial hill |
| 11:52.38 | Kliment | that's why it has all the straight lines |
| 11:52.53 | pvanhoof | The story of that myth goes that the people in Mechelen thought their church was on fire, so they all started getting buckets of water |
| 11:53.07 | pvanhoof | the problem was that it was just a bright moon |
| 11:53.41 | Kliment | pvanhoof: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=heusden,NL&ie=UTF8&ll=51.730112,5.140057&spn=0.021052,0.044289&t=h&z=15&om=1 |
| 11:54.08 | pvanhoof | that's not too far from Turnhout :) |
| 11:54.14 | Kliment | nope |
| 11:54.22 | *** join/#openmoko morgan (n=rmoravci@sealip01.ericsson.net) |
| 11:54.39 | Kliment | and of course there are many stories about the reasons why bierbeek near leuven is called that |
| 11:54.50 | pvanhoof | Not far from the Efteling |
| 11:55.01 | *** part/#openmoko morgan (n=rmoravci@sealip01.ericsson.net) |
| 11:55.18 | Kliment | I like the triangles |
| 11:55.28 | CM | Kliment: Yes, cool place |
| 11:55.37 | Kliment | ever been? |
| 11:55.51 | pvanhoof | they did that for protection, right, the triangles? |
| 11:55.58 | Kliment | supposedly |
| 11:56.21 | Kliment | and they made their streets zigzagged so that invading armies would not be able to see from one end to the other |
| 11:56.22 | CM | No, never to the Netherlands yet |
| 11:56.30 | Kliment | and lots of secret passages across town |
| 11:56.39 | pvanhoof | so they could put archers on those triangles |
| 11:56.49 | Kliment | so you can get from place to place without getting out in the main streets |
| 11:56.54 | Kliment | pvanhoof: archers and cannons |
| 11:57.04 | Kliment | pvanhoof: the cannons are still there in some places |
| 11:57.12 | pvanhoof | wow, they did it twice |
| 11:57.34 | pvanhoof | Once for that "Oud Maasje" and once for the village/city itself |
| 11:57.50 | Kliment | pvanhoof: ? |
| 11:58.18 | Kliment | oh you mean the relocation? |
| 11:58.24 | pvanhoof | Yes, so they have triangles (big ones) attached to the city |
| 11:58.27 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@c-69-143-234-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 11:58.46 | pvanhoof | and another row of triangles |
| 11:58.51 | Kliment | yes |
| 11:59.03 | pvanhoof | I haven't seen that often |
| 11:59.09 | Kliment | it's pretty cool |
| 11:59.12 | Kliment | go visit sometime |
| 11:59.17 | Kliment | it's an hour's drive |
| 11:59.18 | Kliment | or less |
| 11:59.23 | pvanhoof | uhu, will do |
| 11:59.35 | pvanhoof | When I need a destination to bike to |
| 11:59.44 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravci1 (n=rmoravci@sealip01.ericsson.net) |
| 11:59.51 | Kliment | didn't stop the germans from killing everyone there though |
| 12:00.09 | Kliment | I'd be interested in biking in that area |
| 12:00.30 | pvanhoof | Yes well, the triangles were not calculated for the more modern weapons of WOII |
| 12:01.27 | CM | Sucks having to sit out on one of those triangles too when the enemies attac |
| 12:01.49 | Kliment | CM: they are pretty high for conventional weapons and they have a raised edge you can hide under |
| 12:01.58 | Kliment | no good when the enemies have planes though |
| 12:02.35 | CM | Kliment: Sure, but I don't want to sit there for days, or row back to the city wall |
| 12:03.01 | Kliment | CM: they are very close to the town, and not too hard to access |
| 12:03.06 | CM | Ok |
| 12:03.09 | Kliment | CM: but a pain to get to from outside the town |
| 12:03.17 | pvanhoof | Looks like a small town indeed |
| 12:03.40 | pvanhoof | Looks like a nice place to live :) |
| 12:03.46 | Kliment | pvanhoof: I'm in Köln myself but would be cool to take the Thalys to brussels sometime and then bike up |
| 12:03.50 | pvanhoof | Peaceful etc etc, near some water |
| 12:03.58 | Kliment | it's a wonderful place to live |
| 12:04.01 | pvanhoof | sure |
| 12:04.06 | Kliment | I know a family that got started there |
| 12:04.26 | CM | I've recently realised I want to live in bigger cities.. |
| 12:04.49 | Kliment | they had both bought houses in the same street so they shared a backyard |
| 12:05.02 | Kliment | and they got together after fighting about the mess in the backyard |
| 12:05.24 | Kliment | now they live in haarsteeg, a bit closer to den bosch |
| 12:05.25 | pvanhoof | :) |
| 12:05.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3206 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/data/gtkrc: * Add a style for GtkScrollbar |
| 12:07.20 | abraxa_ | Kliment: lol... that is interesting |
| 12:07.27 | abraxa_ | First fighting, now loving? |
| 12:07.35 | Kliment | one of the reasons I moved to germany was to be closer to that language area |
| 12:07.42 | CM | abraxa_: Better than the other way around ;) |
| 12:07.43 | Kliment | Flandres and NL |
| 12:07.51 | abraxa_ | CM: fo' sho |
| 12:07.53 | Kliment | CM: indeed, much better |
| 12:08.05 | CM | Kliment: Where are you from then? Finland? |
| 12:08.18 | Kliment | I lived in Finland the past 10 years |
| 12:08.24 | Kliment | I'm originally from Bulgaria |
| 12:08.46 | CM | I would have guessed either of those, based on the languages you said you knew ;( |
| 12:08.49 | CM | ;) |
| 12:09.09 | cjb_ie | yeah, bulgarian and finnish is an unusual combination |
| 12:10.39 | Kliment | finnish is a wonderful language |
| 12:10.51 | Kliment | one of the simplest in europe |
| 12:11.02 | CM | Kliment: I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.. |
| 12:11.11 | Kliment | it's hard to learn |
| 12:11.22 | Kliment | but it's very simple compared to most european languages |
| 12:11.24 | CM | I had a finnish girlfriend for almost 2 years and it was damn hard.. |
| 12:11.27 | *** join/#openmoko nano- (i=nano@exodus.xmms.se) |
| 12:11.34 | Kliment | vocabulary is a pain |
| 12:11.36 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 12:11.40 | Kliment | but grammar just makes sense |
| 12:11.48 | Kliment | especially to a programmer it should |
| 12:11.51 | CM | At least you pronounce everything the way it's spelled |
| 12:11.56 | Kliment | there's that |
| 12:12.01 | CM | Kliment: I think it's crazily overcomplicated |
| 12:12.02 | abraxa_ | CM: Just curious... did she speak Swedish then? |
| 12:12.09 | CM | abraxa_: yes |
| 12:12.10 | guaqua | no masculines and feminines |
| 12:12.19 | Kliment | and also once you learn a grammatical rule, it applies the exact same way to any word you pick |
| 12:12.20 | guaqua | just ~16 different cases and moduses ;) |
| 12:12.32 | abraxa_ | CM: Ahh, okay - was wondering how you two got together in the first place if you don't have a common language ;) |
| 12:12.35 | Kliment | guaqua: indeed but they replace the roles of prepositions |
| 12:12.44 | pvanhoof | I've been in Helsinki for two weeks .. |
| 12:12.45 | guaqua | yep |
| 12:12.50 | CM | abraxa_: Well, english works too ;) |
| 12:13.00 | pvanhoof | Being a Sauna fan, I expected huge amounts of sauna's in Helsinki |
| 12:13.05 | pvanhoof | Result, one public one |
| 12:13.06 | abraxa_ | CM: Yup, I know the feeling :) |
| 12:13.06 | pvanhoof | :) |
| 12:13.18 | guaqua | pvanhoof: swimming halls have public saunas |
| 12:13.19 | pvanhoof | I guess all the sauna's are private ones in Lapland :) |
| 12:13.22 | Kliment | I have a Belgian girlfriend, we speak English and I try to understand Flemish |
| 12:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-73-152.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 12:13.30 | CM | pvanhoof: My gf had a sauna in her tiny studen apartment. Great! :D |
| 12:13.34 | guaqua | but specific public saunas are rare |
| 12:13.43 | pvanhoof | yep :( |
| 12:13.45 | Kliment | pvanhoof: any swimming pool or sports center and most homes have them |
| 12:13.50 | pvanhoof | In Belgium most people go to a public sauna centre |
| 12:14.10 | pvanhoof | and, yes, they are mixed. and, yes, they are naked, and yes I know that sounds strange for Fins :) |
| 12:14.31 | pvanhoof | and no we don't drink beer after each sauna :) |
| 12:14.46 | guaqua | you heretics :> |
| 12:14.59 | CM | pvanhoof: Only eat fries with mayo? |
| 12:15.03 | Kliment | pvanhoof: why does it sound strange? |
| 12:15.09 | Hadaka | pvanhoof: what? there's loads of public saunas in helsinki! |
| 12:15.19 | Kliment | pvanhoof: other than the beer part, I don't think it very strange |
| 12:15.42 | guaqua | public saunas are very rarely unisex |
| 12:15.45 | CM | pvanhoof: I'd say it sounds strange to americans. They can't even shower after gym in school.. |
| 12:15.46 | Hadaka | pvanhoof: I bet you can find a public sauna in every block in kallio just about :) |
| 12:15.46 | guaqua | in finland that is |
| 12:15.48 | pvanhoof | CM, most sauna centers have a fine restaurant, yes (and you have to put-on your towel or bathrobe before eating) |
| 12:15.52 | pvanhoof | Hadaka, I didn't find any :( |
| 12:16.01 | CM | pvanhoof: Hehe.. Nice! I'd like it there |
| 12:16.04 | Kliment | then again, finnish beer tastes rather bad on an international scale |
| 12:16.05 | Hadaka | pvanhoof: I can recommend a few if you are still here |
| 12:16.30 | Kliment | I was never really into saunas though |
| 12:16.32 | Hadaka | Kliment: gods yeah, if you mean the common finnish beers |
| 12:16.36 | pvanhoof | Hadaka, next time I visit the guys at nokia, I'll tell you :) |
| 12:16.43 | Hadaka | pvanhoof: do that :) |
| 12:16.57 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:17.00 | Hadaka | pvanhoof: (and if you are serious about that, then naked@iki.fi is the way to reach me) |
| 12:17.08 | pvanhoof | aha, ok. I am :) |
| 12:17.20 | Kliment | fitting email |
| 12:17.23 | Hadaka | pvanhoof: good :) |
| 12:17.26 | abraxa_ | haha |
| 12:17.32 | pvanhoof | But other than that, Helsinki was a nice place |
| 12:17.41 | Kliment | I didn't like it so much |
| 12:17.45 | pvanhoof | Especially in the weekends when people start talking (and getting drunk) |
| 12:17.49 | Kliment | but I guess I was bored after 10 years |
| 12:18.03 | pvanhoof | yes, indeed. It might get a bit boring after ten years :) |
| 12:18.33 | pvanhoof | For a capital city it's indeed rather small. But, I'm used to the Belgian cities of course |
| 12:18.38 | Kliment | thus Keulen |
| 12:18.47 | Kliment | it's enough big city for me |
| 12:18.57 | pvanhoof | And, it's the entire area Espoo->Helsinki that is one big city I guess :) |
| 12:19.05 | Kliment | espoo is not a city |
| 12:19.27 | pvanhoof | I should have visited Espoo, I didn't (so I don't know) |
| 12:19.35 | Kliment | it's a bunch of villages joined together by roads |
| 12:19.40 | Kliment | and lots of forest in between |
| 12:19.44 | pvanhoof | lovely |
| 12:19.50 | Kliment | it's pretty, but not to live in |
| 12:20.00 | Kliment | only sensible way of transport is by car |
| 12:20.09 | pvanhoof | see, it's hard for a Belgian to imagine it being hard to live there :) |
| 12:20.24 | pvanhoof | we have cities cities cities, villages, cities, no forest whatsoever |
| 12:20.29 | Kliment | I know |
| 12:20.34 | Kliment | it's the same in NL |
| 12:20.38 | pvanhoof | indeed |
| 12:20.45 | Kliment | too many people, too little space |
| 12:20.56 | Kliment | I hear japan is like that too |
| 12:20.59 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3207 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/data/gtkrc: |
| 12:20.59 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Improve menu style (as per suggestions from bug 903) |
| 12:20.59 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Add a menubar style |
| 12:21.09 | guaqua | espoo is horrible |
| 12:21.19 | pvanhoof | yes and the roads in .be are always jammed by traffic, even the small ones :( |
| 12:21.29 | guaqua | no use to visit the suburbia other than if you're going to the national park :) |
| 12:21.29 | Kliment | CM: when you go north enough the roads get very bad and then there's only forests :) |
| 12:21.50 | CM | My home town is the 5th biggest in sweden or so, and the closest town with more than 50.000 people is about 100km away |
| 12:21.58 | Kliment | guaqua: the park is indeed nice, and of course there's bodom lake and the area around that too |
| 12:22.16 | guaqua | yeah, but that's all i have to say about espoo. lived there for a year...horrible :S |
| 12:22.22 | pvanhoof | cm, sounds awesome. If I travel 100KM, I can reach 80% of Belgium |
| 12:22.27 | pvanhoof | me wanna live there! |
| 12:22.38 | Kliment | pvanhoof: you say that until you try it |
| 12:23.00 | CM | pvanhoof: In the summer it's awesome, but winters are dark.. |
| 12:23.03 | Kliment | pvanhoof: it's all idyllic and nice until you notice you have to travel tens of kms to meet any people you are comfortable talking with |
| 12:23.10 | pvanhoof | yes yes, but I never saw the milky way in the dark sky, I never been in nowhere's land |
| 12:23.12 | CM | about 2h of sun per day |
| 12:23.37 | Kliment | pvanhoof: then go to bulgaria, the northeast area just north of the big tourist areas |
| 12:23.44 | Kliment | pvanhoof: now that is an amazing sky view |
| 12:24.01 | *** join/#openmoko kumpera (n=rodrigo@c91520b2.virtua.com.br) |
| 12:24.01 | Kliment | never seen stars very well in finland |
| 12:24.02 | pvanhoof | adding Bulgaria to my want-to-visit list |
| 12:24.20 | Kliment | tends to bee too cloudy for that in winter |
| 12:24.22 | pvanhoof | Never seen any stars in Belgium :(, well that's not exactly true |
| 12:24.26 | Kliment | and in summer it never gets dark enough |
| 12:24.31 | pvanhoof | but really, it's a poor sky-view here :( |
| 12:24.32 | zash | .nz is on my want-to-move-to list |
| 12:24.34 | CM | The tourist beaches of Bulgaria has quite a bad reputation now |
| 12:24.42 | Kliment | belgium has lighted highways at night |
| 12:24.47 | Kliment | CM: yeah, it's terrible |
| 12:24.54 | CM | zash: Not australia? |
| 12:24.57 | Kliment | CM: stay away from the tourist traps |
| 12:24.58 | pvanhoof | Kliment, well they turn those off around 1 'O click nowadays |
| 12:25.02 | pvanhoof | clock |
| 12:25.12 | Kliment | pvanhoof: really? finally they got some sense in them |
| 12:25.23 | cjb_ie | pvanhoof: bulgaria is absolutely horrible to drive in |
| 12:25.29 | pvanhoof | Just the joins are lightened, so .. most of the high ways are indeed lightened :( |
| 12:25.39 | Kliment | cjb_ie: that is also true, though the highways are ok now |
| 12:25.47 | Kliment | cjb_ie: just stay away from any other roads |
| 12:25.54 | cjb_ie | Kliment: i didn't mean the roads, so much as the drivers |
| 12:26.03 | Kliment | cjb_ie: that's my point |
| 12:26.26 | Kliment | cjb_ie: on the highways you can see them in time |
| 12:26.27 | cjb_ie | you try getting from rila to bansko staying on the highways... |
| 12:26.38 | cjb_ie | (yeah yeah, call me a tourist) |
| 12:26.46 | Kliment | cjb_ie: rila is not bad |
| 12:26.58 | Kliment | I went there often as a kid |
| 12:27.23 | pvanhoof | I one day want to see the milky way in the dark sky :-( |
| 12:27.25 | masterbrian | Hi :) I've a lamer question. After compiling all openmoko with makefile, How I can start it using qemu? |
| 12:27.44 | pvanhoof | fscking belgian dark-sky :( |
| 12:28.00 | Kliment | pvanhoof: the problem is too much light, not too much darkness |
| 12:28.06 | pvanhoof | yes indeed |
| 12:28.12 | Kliment | pvanhoof: belgium is known for its terrible light conditions |
| 12:28.24 | pvanhoof | yep :( |
| 12:28.39 | pvanhoof | We can literally see the city (Turnhout) glow in the night |
| 12:28.39 | roh | Kliment it is,? its sunny here in berlin.. shouldnt you just be one timezone apart? |
| 12:28.48 | pvanhoof | all of the Belgian cities |
| 12:28.53 | CM | masterbrian: make run-qemu? |
| 12:29.06 | pvanhoof | you can actually locate them just by looking at the sky, in the night |
| 12:29.11 | Kliment | roh: ja, aber belgium has lights on the highways at night |
| 12:29.15 | masterbrian | @CM it is not for compiling qemu that command? |
| 12:29.24 | roh | masterbrian make build-qemu && make run-qemu |
| 12:29.29 | CM | pvanhoof: Have you seriously never seen the milky way? I'm so used to it I've never even thought about not seeing it unless it's cloudy |
| 12:29.40 | pvanhoof | CM, never seen it |
| 12:29.44 | pvanhoof | Only on pictures |
| 12:29.53 | CM | masterbrian: No, it starts qemu with the om image :) |
| 12:29.59 | pvanhoof | I think the amount of stars that we see, you can count them on two hands |
| 12:30.02 | Kliment | masterbrian: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 12:30.02 | cjb_ie | Kliment: well, the road surface is okay - but a few interesting S-bends for overtaking on |
| 12:30.16 | pvanhoof | If you are in a dark spot |
| 12:30.26 | pvanhoof | In the city, in a clear sky, you can see two or three stars |
| 12:30.47 | Kliment | in Leuven I can't see a thing at night |
| 12:30.50 | masterbrian | thank you :) |
| 12:30.54 | CM | pvanhoof: When it's really clear outside, and you're a bit away from town, the milky way is really quite white |
| 12:31.09 | pvanhoof | You're making me jealous :( |
| 12:31.22 | SpeedEvil | Kliment: you usuaully can - if you know where the stars are you can pick them out even in the most badly light-polluted places. (stuff like the negative magnitude ones) |
| 12:31.41 | SpeedEvil | When it's clear here, I can see the milky way. |
| 12:31.52 | ScaredyCat | *blink* |
| 12:31.54 | Kliment | SpeedEvil: yeah, those, but it's dramatically different in a dark area |
| 12:32.13 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 12:32.22 | pvanhoof | CM, For a long time I even believed they "calculated" somehow that there's this thing called a milky way, not that people could actually "see" it |
| 12:32.42 | CM | Being in the mountains in northen sweden around christmas it's truly dark when the moon is not up |
| 12:32.43 | pvanhoof | Until I started seeing pictures online of it |
| 12:32.54 | CM | And usually very clear since the air is so cold |
| 12:33.16 | Kliment | CM: ah yes in the north it's a different story |
| 12:33.27 | pvanhoof | Yes, I wanted to travel to Sweden this year. But Tinne wanted to go to Scotland. so we ended up disagreeing |
| 12:33.32 | pvanhoof | and in the end we didn't go |
| 12:33.36 | CM | My home town is 62 degrees north |
| 12:34.06 | guaqua | CM: umeå? |
| 12:34.19 | CM | guaqua: Yes |
| 12:34.22 | pvanhoof | so, there's hotels in your town CM? |
| 12:34.23 | CM | :) |
| 12:34.23 | roh | CoreDump favicon on planet is fixed now |
| 12:34.24 | pvanhoof | are |
| 12:34.25 | guaqua | i'm originally from oulu (uleåborg) :) |
| 12:34.30 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 12:34.34 | Kliment | I don't believe in hotels |
| 12:34.41 | Kliment | wherever I go, I stay with friends |
| 12:34.50 | pvanhoof | Yes, or friends where I can stay :) |
| 12:35.12 | pvanhoof | And mountains to walk for in case we do get bored of watching the sky all night long? (sounds unlikely) |
| 12:35.14 | CM | pvanhoof: Sure, it has 111.000 inabitants or so |
| 12:35.26 | pvanhoof | oh it's a quite large city then? |
| 12:35.31 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=ubuntu@a187.net131.okay.pl) |
| 12:35.32 | Kliment | well, I am a member of hospitalityclub, bewelcome and couchsurfing, not too many places where I can't go :) |
| 12:35.37 | J-23 | Hello! |
| 12:35.37 | CM | But you probably want to go even further north if you want to be in the middle of nowhere |
| 12:35.52 | zash | CM: duno how australia is |
| 12:36.16 | CM | zash: It's not at all as far south as sweden is north |
| 12:36.28 | Kliment | I have a friend in Torvinen, 30km outside Sodankylä |
| 12:36.37 | Kliment | That's about as middle of nowhere as it gets |
| 12:36.40 | Kliment | wonderful place |
| 12:36.47 | Kliment | absolutely silent and dark at night |
| 12:36.50 | guaqua | it's pretty much out in the back |
| 12:36.52 | CM | pvanhoof: If you go in the winter you could visit Jukkasjärvi. ;) |
| 12:37.03 | CM | They have a hotel made from ice |
| 12:37.08 | pvanhoof | can you do skiing? |
| 12:37.12 | Kliment | yes |
| 12:37.17 | pvanhoof | awesome! |
| 12:37.24 | CM | Sure, many good slopes |
| 12:37.26 | Kliment | J-23: is it working? |
| 12:37.34 | pvanhoof | skiing is a reason my itself to go :) |
| 12:37.36 | zash | J-23: holy slowness of doom? |
| 12:37.38 | pvanhoof | s/my/by |
| 12:37.52 | Kliment | I am not a fan of skiing, ever since I broke my leg doing that |
| 12:37.54 | J-23 | flash.sh returns errors, download.sh downloads index.html.X |
| 12:38.03 | pvanhoof | wow, milky way in the night and skiing during the day, why did I ever go to France for this?! |
| 12:38.12 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-154-184-189.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 12:38.17 | CM | Kliment: Same here, bent my knee so I had my toes on my waist.. |
| 12:38.24 | Kliment | pvanhoof: wait, what night, what day |
| 12:38.30 | Kliment | pvanhoof: you only get to pick one of those |
| 12:38.39 | pvanhoof | oh yes, it's Sweden. Night all the time |
| 12:38.47 | Kliment | pvanhoof: or worse, day all the time |
| 12:38.52 | Kliment | pvanhoof: try sleeping in that |
| 12:38.55 | abraxa_ | CM: That does sound extremely painful. |
| 12:39.04 | zash | night all the time? |
| 12:39.07 | guaqua | you get used to the light...and you also don |
| 12:39.15 | guaqua | don't have to sleep as much with that much light :) |
| 12:39.15 | CM | zash: Winter in the night.. |
| 12:39.20 | pvanhoof | I was in Helsinki this summer, where it was night for just a few minutes (they where celebrating this special day) |
| 12:39.30 | Kliment | pvanhoof: midsummer? |
| 12:39.33 | pvanhoof | Yes |
| 12:39.37 | Kliment | pvanhoof: it's a long tradition |
| 12:39.49 | CM | abraxa_: Also, no one had a cellphone and we were way above the slopes, so I had to ski down on one leg.. |
| 12:40.04 | CM | pvanhoof: What about northen lights? |
| 12:40.12 | CM | I like those more than the milkyway :) |
| 12:40.26 | pvanhoof | ok, Sweden is my next travel destination |
| 12:40.27 | SpeedEvil | Not that often visible at 56N |
| 12:40.35 | abraxa_ | CM: I know why I don't ski either ;) |
| 12:40.39 | SpeedEvil | At least not unless you're in very dark usual skies. |
| 12:40.47 | Kliment | pvanhoof: people traditionally jump over fires, and then go swimming in lakes drunk and drown |
| 12:40.55 | CM | SpeedEvil: True. Miss that about being here in the south of sweden |
| 12:41.04 | Kliment | pvanhoof: midsummer is a consistent record in drowning deaths, every year |
| 12:41.13 | pvanhoof | I see :) |
| 12:41.32 | pvanhoof | strange fins. But, nice people :) |
| 12:41.38 | J-23 | Hmm... I don't have Lynx... |
| 12:41.48 | guaqua | many die their pants open, every midsummer :) |
| 12:41.57 | zash | J-23: sudo aptitude install lynx |
| 12:41.57 | Kliment | yeah, there's also that |
| 12:41.57 | zash | :D |
| 12:42.07 | guaqua | (from taking a piss from a small boat) |
| 12:42.08 | Kliment | pissing over the side of the boat and falling in |
| 12:42.11 | guaqua | yes |
| 12:42.18 | pvanhoof | haha |
| 12:42.29 | guaqua | it ain't no joke really :S |
| 12:42.35 | zash | J-23: otoh, wont work that well on a live-cd |
| 12:42.45 | Kliment | when it starts happening to your friends it quickly stops being funny |
| 12:42.51 | guaqua | yes :) |
| 12:42.56 | pvanhoof | Most Belgians survive days like Newyear :) |
| 12:43.11 | pvanhoof | We usually die in traffic on such occasions |
| 12:43.24 | Kliment | drunk driving is not so serious in finland |
| 12:43.29 | Kliment | not enough cars |
| 12:43.36 | pvanhoof | it's quite serious in .be :) |
| 12:43.40 | CM | Kliment: Or too drunk to even get to the car |
| 12:43.41 | Kliment | I've seen |
| 12:43.45 | pvanhoof | And the penalty is already very high |
| 12:43.53 | Kliment | the penalty is death |
| 12:43.54 | pvanhoof | You for example immediately loose your divers license |
| 12:43.57 | Kliment | still doesn't stop people |
| 12:44.29 | pvanhoof | but increasingly lots of people drive without insurance nor drivers license |
| 12:44.34 | *** join/#openmoko Longfield (n=valentin@138.131.206.172) |
| 12:44.37 | Kliment | yeah |
| 12:44.39 | pvanhoof | because insurance is getting crazy expensive for some people in belgium |
| 12:44.44 | Kliment | it's the same in bulgaria |
| 12:44.48 | guaqua | Kliment: drunk driving is a problem |
| 12:44.54 | guaqua | especially in smaller places |
| 12:45.03 | Kliment | guaqua: not so much in finland compared to most of europe |
| 12:45.10 | abraxa_ | Kliment: Here in Germany, it doesn't stop people either, especially <25 year-olds. But hey, what's the risk of dying compared to scoring with some chick in your car? |
| 12:45.47 | pvanhoof | and then you have the Belgian drivers who drive like Germans on our broken highways, abraxa_ :) |
| 12:45.50 | Kliment | abraxa_: I know, I once got a ride in a porsche on the autobahn |
| 12:46.17 | pvanhoof | Usually, people with German license plates who drive in Belgium, drive slower than most other Belgians :) |
| 12:46.19 | Kliment | abraxa_: and some people were trying to overtake at 280 |
| 12:46.41 | pvanhoof | uhm, overtaking the wheel at 280?! |
| 12:46.49 | pvanhoof | that's sick |
| 12:46.55 | hrw | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/10/17/someone-know-how-to-re-enable-serial-ata-port/ |
| 12:47.11 | Kliment | roh: I don't have one either |
| 12:47.12 | abraxa_ | Kliment: To be brutally honest, people who try to overtake at such speeds must have character issues. Seeing them kiss the side of the road might actually do society a favor. |
| 12:47.15 | roh | its much more fun to let people drive... |
| 12:47.27 | Kliment | roh: never needed one in Köln |
| 12:47.47 | J-23 | It works! :) |
| 12:48.01 | Kliment | hrw: you can try playing around with hdparm |
| 12:48.12 | hrw | Kliment: hdparm require /dev/ entry |
| 12:48.25 | Kliment | well, that's all I can think of |
| 12:48.32 | Kliment | disconnect/reconnect cable? |
| 12:49.04 | hrw | Kliment: easier is power off/on then messing wit cables |
| 12:49.10 | pvanhoof | Somebody should ask google to flyover sweden |
| 12:49.20 | Kliment | pvanhoof: it's pretty expensive |
| 12:49.21 | CM | roh: It's good to have a license, but I prefer not to drive unless I really have to |
| 12:49.42 | Kliment | I bike to work unless it rains, then I take the tram |
| 12:49.54 | CM | pvanhoof: Yes, google earth is really bad over sweden. |
| 12:50.03 | pvanhoof | finding some food, bbl |
| 12:50.28 | roh | CM i bike too.. but i own a pedelec ;) |
| 12:50.40 | CM | Oh, what's that? |
| 12:50.52 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.1.fullrate.dk) |
| 12:51.15 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 12:51.23 | ww | roh! |
| 12:51.28 | *** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 12:51.41 | roh | hey ww |
| 12:51.52 | ww | wie geht's? |
| 12:52.05 | CM | pvanhoof: Try this instead: http://kartor.eniro.se/query?&what=map&mop=yp&imgmode=2&mapstate=1%3B17.73517591932137%3B62.51698038876889%3B0%3B-4.204463164815582%3B74.32894043196544%3B39.67481500345832%3B50.70502034557235%3B626%3B636&mapcomp=%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B%3B0%3B0%3B%3B%3B%3B0&stq=0 |
| 12:52.15 | roh | ww pretty well... i think i'll visit cbase this evening... you'll be there? |
| 12:52.27 | ww | i was just going to ask... |
| 12:52.42 | ww | any chace you can bring debug board? ;) |
| 12:53.25 | ww | CM: tinyurl.com? |
| 12:53.35 | roh | CM a bike with a electric motor which still counts as bike, thus no license, no insurance etc |
| 12:53.37 | zash | http://kartor.eniro.se |
| 12:53.39 | roh | CM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CyclePat%5Cpedelec |
| 12:53.55 | roh | ww jap, ive got my debugboard with me most of the time. |
| 12:54.00 | CM | roh: Was just looking on wikipedia for it :) |
| 12:54.15 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@81-208-31-222.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 12:54.19 | ww | roh: lekker! |
| 12:54.38 | CM | roh: I tried one of those around 10 years ago, was quite nice :) |
| 12:55.54 | masterbrian | I feel I'm near the end of all of this :) I'm getting error while trying to make run-qemu |
| 12:55.56 | zash | CM: lantmäteriet har rätt högupplösta flygfoton åxå |
| 12:56.17 | masterbrian | what does mean "/bin/sh: /sbin/mkdosfs: No such file or directory" ? |
| 12:56.25 | masterbrian | while running make run-qemu? |
| 12:56.31 | CM | zash: Jo, har en kompis som gjorde sitt exjobb i Umeå med att koppla dem till gps-koordinater :) |
| 12:58.40 | masterbrian | found, the problem was about the host missing mkdosfs |
| 12:59.52 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=nosyjoe@c007.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 13:01.48 | cjb_ie | zash, CM: ni låter som OSMare |
| 13:02.21 | zash | define:OSMare |
| 13:02.29 | cjb_ie | zash: www.openstreetmap.org |
| 13:03.50 | CM | cjb_ie: Do you speak swedish? Where are you from? |
| 13:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:04.17 | CM | I'm interested in osm and gps stuff, but my neo doesn't have a working gps... :P |
| 13:05.45 | *** join/#openmoko lostgeek (n=aschenba@xdsl-87-78-205-50.netcologne.de) |
| 13:07.46 | CM | cjb_ie: Oh, mighty combination :D |
| 13:08.47 | cjb_ie | CM: it's good for confusing people. |
| 13:09.28 | zash | haha |
| 13:09.29 | CM | genau ;) |
| 13:09.34 | Kliment | it's like when people ask me where I'm from |
| 13:09.36 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 13:09.44 | Kliment | lostgeek: you're in Köln? |
| 13:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko Plasma_GR (n=VIPERNET@athedsl-142247.home.otenet.gr) |
| 13:09.58 | lostgeek | yeah |
| 13:10.02 | cjb_ie | Kliment: "well, what do you mean by 'from'? and do you want the long or the short version?" |
| 13:10.17 | Kliment | cjb_ie: exactly |
| 13:10.38 | Kliment | lostgeek: I just moved here last month |
| 13:10.41 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 13:11.11 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.207) |
| 13:11.29 | cjb_ie | "well, i'm half dutch..." "so, do you speak dutch then?" "a little, but my swedish is better." "so the other half is swedish?" "no, finnish" "huh?" |
| 13:11.31 | ewon | shiny: http://www.engadget.com/gallery/nokias-n810-makes-first-appearance-drops-jaws-hi-res/443404/ |
| 13:12.00 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:12.07 | CM | ewon: oohh.. |
| 13:15.11 | abraxa_ | I like the design and features, except I want it silver/black and without cam ;) |
| 13:15.21 | Kliment | not bad, but it's not a phone |
| 13:15.48 | CM | But I guess gps? |
| 13:16.03 | Fatal | previous models used external bt gps |
| 13:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko lostgeek (n=aschenba@xdsl-87-78-205-50.netcologne.de) |
| 13:16.16 | CM | I wonder why they refuse so stubbornly to not have gsm or umts in it |
| 13:16.37 | zash | coffee! |
| 13:17.52 | Kliment | CM: because they haven't sold enough N95s yet |
| 13:19.18 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic_ (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:22.29 | masterbrian | it is normal that qemu takes several minutes to start openmoko image? |
| 13:22.48 | zash | ja |
| 13:22.59 | zash | s/ja/yes |
| 13:23.01 | Plasma_GR | Where can I get information about the current available applications in OM? |
| 13:23.10 | masterbrian | it is not really usable :/ it is too slow |
| 13:23.38 | masterbrian | I hope that on neo1973 it run faster! |
| 13:24.05 | zash | not emulating another cpu-type helps |
| 13:24.49 | masterbrian | I hope so... and maybe a better qemu would be good :) |
| 13:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko Chairboy (n=chatzill@c-24-22-81-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 13:31.05 | abraxa_ | Plasma_GR: What kind of information are you looking for? |
| 13:31.14 | Elessar_81 | @masterbrian: does it work with qemu at your maschien. I got problems to get it running |
| 13:32.00 | masterbrian | Elessar: it is not simple to make it run... I've spent a lot of time for having a working image |
| 13:33.26 | Elessar_81 | I tried it with the ubunut walktrough from the wiki and get the same error as described at the end of this article |
| 13:34.38 | Plasma_GR | I want to see how complete is the platform as a whole, I know you would suggest me to run it in qemu but this is a hassle because I just want to know what apps are complete or just basica functioning |
| 13:35.13 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 13:35.18 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 13:36.12 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 13:39.27 | abraxa_ | Plasma_GR: The applications you can see in SVN (http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/) have basic features working, however the underlying libraries are focus of attention at the moment as they're not complete/stable enough yet |
| 13:39.46 | SpeedEvil | And stuff often breaks. |
| 13:40.10 | SpeedEvil | With functionality varying over time as stuff underneath it gets patched. |
| 13:41.23 | *** join/#openmoko wolfgang_spraul (n=wolfgang@office.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 13:41.34 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@208.118.160.90) |
| 13:42.02 | abraxa_ | Hallo Wolfgang |
| 13:42.15 | *** join/#openmoko _fletch (n=fletch@static-ip-62-75-243-234.inaddr.intergenia.de) |
| 13:42.27 | wolfgang_spraul | abraxa_: hi |
| 13:42.51 | abraxa_ | Glad to see new faces appearing :) |
| 13:43.02 | wolfgang_spraul | sure |
| 13:43.02 | CM | masterbrian: I have a 3000+ amd64 and running openmoko in qemu is much slower than on my gta01 |
| 13:43.12 | wolfgang_spraul | abraxa_: where are you located? |
| 13:44.09 | abraxa_ | Frankfurt/M most of the time |
| 13:44.21 | LittleIdiot | are there any news concerning the gta01's firmware update? (bug #666) in other words: is there any progress made by ti or do i have to sign an nda before i can use the software and the new firmware for the gsm modem? |
| 13:44.44 | SpeedEvil | Slight progress. |
| 13:44.55 | SpeedEvil | It's been confirmed that a fix could be distributed. |
| 13:45.08 | SpeedEvil | Tehre are still licensing concerns on the firmware flasher tool. |
| 13:45.13 | SpeedEvil | There is however no fix. |
| 13:45.18 | SpeedEvil | (yet) |
| 13:45.24 | abraxa_ | wolfgang_spraul: I take it you're part of the software team? :) |
| 13:45.31 | *** join/#openmoko mickeyl (i=mickey@srv043.dedi23.de) |
| 13:45.45 | wolfgang_spraul | abraxa_: which software team? you mean the OpenMoko software team? |
| 13:45.49 | abraxa_ | Yup |
| 13:45.51 | cb22 | * wolfgang_spraul (n=wolfgang@office.tw.openmoko.org) has joined #openmoko |
| 13:45.59 | LittleIdiot | hmmkay... |
| 13:46.01 | wolfgang_spraul | oh, I see |
| 13:46.06 | wolfgang_spraul | I guess I'm little idiot here... |
| 13:46.06 | wolfgang_spraul | :-) |
| 13:46.12 | abraxa_ | heh |
| 13:46.22 | wolfgang_spraul | didn't know about this n=... stuff |
| 13:46.37 | wolfgang_spraul | yes, correct, I work for OpenMoko on the software side |
| 13:46.39 | wolfgang_spraul | lots of work... |
| 13:46.50 | abraxa_ | Ohh, awesome! |
| 13:47.07 | SpeedEvil | wolfgang_spraul: what are you concentrating on? Or are you more at the 'run away screaming' stage of project managment. |
| 13:47.24 | mbuf | wolfgang_spraul, do you know if OM is recruiting for more developers? |
| 13:47.31 | wolfgang_spraul | SpeedEvil: what do you mean with 'run away screaming' stage? |
| 13:47.51 | SpeedEvil | wolfgang_spraul: where you look at the pile of work and don't know where to start. |
| 13:48.29 | wolfgang_spraul | mbuf: not at the moment, I think. |
| 13:48.38 | mbuf | wolfgang_spraul, ok |
| 13:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87.234.195.67) |
| 13:48.40 | wolfgang_spraul | SpeedEvil: I'm past that. |
| 13:49.06 | CM | wolfgang_spraul: We're all waiting here for more news and gossip.. ;) |
| 13:49.18 | wolfgang_spraul | not from me |
| 13:49.22 | CM | :( |
| 13:49.38 | wolfgang_spraul | I will try to stay here in the #openmoko channel though, maybe over time more people show up. |
| 13:49.46 | CM | Well, mickyl usually lets us know what he's allowed to say :) |
| 13:49.53 | SpeedEvil | wolfgang_spraul: do you have an idea what you'll be working on, and can you share that? |
| 13:50.20 | wolfgang_spraul | SpeedEvil: not yet defined |
| 13:50.28 | SpeedEvil | Fair enough. |
| 13:50.39 | SpeedEvil | There is a fair amount of choice. |
| 13:51.01 | CM | SpeedEvil: Hehe.. For sure :) |
| 13:51.10 | wolfgang_spraul | raster: hi :-) |
| 13:51.13 | SpeedEvil | Is anything actually in a releasable condition? |
| 13:51.25 | SpeedEvil | I suppose that u-boot is close. |
| 13:52.02 | wolfgang_spraul | raster: thanks for reminding me of #openmoko, I'll try to have most conversations in here, unless someone convinces me I'm a loose cannon... |
| 13:52.31 | Kliment | wolfgang_spraul: the community greatly appreciates :) |
| 13:52.37 | CM | wolfgang_spraul: Trust us, we won't spread any secrets.. ;) |
| 13:52.45 | wolfgang_spraul | I bet. |
| 13:53.18 | cb22 | and i bet everyone who reads the wiki will keep it a secret too :) |
| 13:53.21 | SpeedEvil | CM: Go for it! |
| 13:53.32 | SpeedEvil | CM: there are only several thousand pages that could do with updating. |
| 13:53.59 | jorgenpt | Haha |
| 13:54.32 | CM | SpeedEvil: True.. I'd like to improve the usb networking part in regards to gentoo, but there's so much more to do. Redundant text too, and some things that are plain wrong. |
| 13:54.35 | *** join/#openmoko meldianen (n=meldiane@arl57-1-82-231-110-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:54.48 | ozarka | Did anyone see this article about the gPhone developer preview? |
| 13:54.53 | ozarka | http://techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2007/10/15/chinese-whispers-50000-gphones-shipping-out/ |
| 13:55.07 | raster | wolfgang_spraul: :):) |
| 13:55.11 | ozarka | Supposedly they'll be shipping 50,000 phones for developers only. |
| 13:55.26 | ozarka | I wonder if we'll be able to make calls with them? :-) |
| 13:55.31 | SpeedEvil | Sounds unlikely. |
| 13:55.31 | raster | wolfgang_spraul: see - instant-minions. just add water! |
| 13:55.34 | raster | :) |
| 13:55.42 | SpeedEvil | Unless it's internal to google only. |
| 13:56.04 | ozarka | Does Google have 50k employees? |
| 13:56.09 | SpeedEvil | Dunno. |
| 13:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=nosyjoe@d084.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 13:57.00 | jorgenpt | raster: haha ;) |
| 13:57.47 | ozarka | Clearly they don't understand the value in scarcity. |
| 13:58.22 | ozarka | gPhone will be all over the valley, but ozarka will still be the only one in his city with an orange Neo |
| 13:58.59 | jorgenpt | Congratulations. ;-) |
| 13:59.07 | mmazur | orange Neo? That's sad :) |
| 13:59.08 | raster | aaah |
| 13:59.09 | Kliment | any specs on this gphone thing anywhere? |
| 13:59.14 | raster | but will the gphone be hackable? |
| 13:59.29 | abraxa_ | ozarka: Does the white/orange actually blend in with the current color scheme (grey/orange/black)? |
| 13:59.40 | ozarka | mmazur: Your jealous is transparent, and frankly a little embarassing. |
| 13:59.51 | ozarka | I don't think the white/orange blends with anything. :-) |
| 13:59.58 | abraxa_ | rofl |
| 14:00.00 | ozarka | But there's no way you're going to lose the phone. |
| 14:00.19 | mmazur | :) |
| 14:00.20 | ozarka | Unless you mistake it for an ice cream bar. |
| 14:00.22 | abraxa_ | I'm not sure that's the kind of statement OpenMoko folks want to make ;) |
| 14:00.27 | guaqua | :D |
| 14:00.38 | Plasma_GR | lmao |
| 14:00.40 | guaqua | "the next generation business phone" |
| 14:01.19 | ozarka | Maybe the gPhone will ship in Mauve and Teal. |
| 14:01.35 | Kliment | I lost mine in a dark room in a hurry while trying to catch a bus |
| 14:01.43 | Kliment | my girlfriend has it now |
| 14:01.56 | zash | there is no gphone! |
| 14:02.38 | Plasma_GR | will they after the GTA02 make available some hot pink housings for neo? |
| 14:03.12 | Kliment | I think someone else will first |
| 14:03.16 | abraxa_ | Plasma_GR: There definitely will be Hello Kitty ones. |
| 14:03.19 | Kliment | like with the wii |
| 14:03.33 | Kliment | they only ever released in white, though they demoed many colors |
| 14:03.42 | Plasma_GR | lmao |
| 14:03.56 | Kliment | but now they have a ton of wiimote covers with any pattern you can imagine |
| 14:04.37 | meldianen | Hi ! |
| 14:04.48 | Plasma_GR | in the wiki i read they will be spare housings and spare stuff sold in the online shop so anyone can buy some hundreds of these and print their own logo and resell them for 5 bucks more |
| 14:05.27 | abraxa_ | Any GTK specialists around? |
| 14:05.42 | Plasma_GR | I want to see google inc selling neo housings with a huge logo "gPhone" and the moto: "You freed it, we get money from it" |
| 14:06.32 | Plasma_GR | Or maybe buy 100% of FIC and own the project |
| 14:06.46 | Kliment | uhm, FIC isn't as small as you make it sound |
| 14:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko Longfield (n=valentin@138.131.206.172) |
| 14:07.02 | Plasma_GR | neither google is :) |
| 14:07.05 | *** join/#openmoko _jj_ (n=john@mail209b.gmnews.co.uk) |
| 14:07.46 | Kliment | of course not, but I don't think they could easily afford to buy FIC |
| 14:07.48 | Kliment | or want to |
| 14:08.03 | CM | FIC have around 10 times as many employees I guess.. |
| 14:08.12 | Kliment | of course, Openmoko is a much smaller company |
| 14:08.24 | Plasma_GR | dont worry i'm just making fun of it |
| 14:08.34 | Plasma_GR | i would never believe such a thing |
| 14:08.44 | *** part/#openmoko _jj_ (n=john@mail209b.gmnews.co.uk) |
| 14:08.46 | Plasma_GR | but... who knows!? |
| 14:08.57 | Kliment | however, having another os on the neo can only be a good thing |
| 14:09.03 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@X1961.x.pppool.de) |
| 14:09.14 | *** part/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:09.48 | CM | I'd suspect that google want something looking more slick and iphone like, or maybe with a keyboard. |
| 14:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@140.77.129.105) |
| 14:10.10 | CM | And I thought it was obvious that it's a distro kind of thing, no physical phone |
| 14:10.45 | Plasma_GR | Unconfirmed sources say that it will be just a plain phone with some basic stuff and based on OE linux |
| 14:11.03 | CM | I doubt it's oe |
| 14:11.33 | Plasma_GR | What else can be used then? |
| 14:11.37 | guaqua | the hardware doesn't have to be spectacular for the phone to be really good |
| 14:11.51 | guaqua | as long as it's not really old and limited, it's fine |
| 14:11.55 | meldianen | Hi there ! |
| 14:12.03 | guaqua | the software stack is the deal |
| 14:12.09 | CM | guaqua: As long as there's drivers |
| 14:12.13 | *** part/#openmoko lostgeek (n=aschenba@xdsl-87-78-205-50.netcologne.de) |
| 14:12.16 | guaqua | CM: yep |
| 14:12.23 | raster | it's OE |
| 14:12.33 | CM | raster: Oh? Nice :) |
| 14:12.42 | guaqua | when i look at the phones we use now, the hardware isn't really used, it just sits there |
| 14:13.02 | meldianen | Does someone know the date of the offical public release of openmoko ? |
| 14:13.06 | guaqua | 3g connection in my nokia with a crappy browser and software...no use of it |
| 14:13.39 | CM | meldianen: The phone (Neo1973) or the software stack (OpenMoko)? |
| 14:13.50 | Plasma_GR | thats an interesting question tho |
| 14:13.55 | ozarka | If the gPhone is a distro type of thing, why do they need 50,000 (!) phones? |
| 14:14.09 | guaqua | ozarka: for the developers :) |
| 14:14.23 | CM | Any phone beats qemu ;) |
| 14:14.26 | ozarka | I wonder why they haven't called me yet? |
| 14:14.32 | guaqua | :D |
| 14:14.33 | meldianen | Plasma_GR, the phone |
| 14:14.41 | ozarka | Is there a #gphone on this server? |
| 14:14.41 | CM | I'm just saying that Google has never been a hardware company |
| 14:14.57 | Plasma_GR | #gphone That channel doesn't exist |
| 14:14.59 | Plasma_GR | nah :) |
| 14:15.23 | ozarka | CM: I agree. The article talks about partnerships with HTC and LG. |
| 14:16.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 945 has been created by koen(AT)openembedded.org |
| 14:16.01 | cdbot2 | * * moko-gtk-engine throws errors |
| 14:16.02 | Plasma_GR | meldianen the next release of the phone will be at december 25 (just like the topic says) but who knows... anything can go wrong |
| 14:16.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=945 |
| 14:16.20 | meldianen | Plasma_GR, ty |
| 14:16.38 | meldianen | Plasma_GR, just for X-mas |
| 14:16.58 | Plasma_GR | thats right |
| 14:17.01 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:17.02 | CM | But that's the developwer version I take it, not for regular consumers |
| 14:17.09 | meldianen | Plasma_GR, it will be a nice gift for a linux newbie like me ! |
| 14:17.40 | meldianen | CM, sure it why I'm waiting for the public release |
| 14:17.53 | CM | :) |
| 14:18.25 | meldianen | i was told about that project by a collegue of mine, hard defensor of the Open Source |
| 14:18.34 | meldianen | linux bless him ! |
| 14:19.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 946 has been created by koen(AT)openembedded.org |
| 14:19.01 | cdbot2 | * * Scrollwheel support for kinetic scroll |
| 14:19.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=946 |
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| 14:21.01 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@dsl081-134-176.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 14:22.48 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
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| 14:41.08 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03abraxa * r3208 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/ (47 files in 4 dirs): |
| 14:41.08 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Remove remainders of the EQ (won't be implemented for a while, if ever) |
| 14:41.08 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Fix memory leak revolving around omp_session_get_file_chooser_path() |
| 14:41.08 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Introduce new main UI |
| 14:41.56 | abraxa_ | CM: Cheers ;) |
| 14:42.12 | abraxa_ | Feedback is appreciated btw |
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| 14:55.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 947 has been created by ian(AT)darwinsys.com |
| 14:55.01 | cdbot2 | * * MediaPlayer startup error dialog does not wait for response |
| 14:55.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=947 |
| 14:55.38 | *** join/#openmoko krLun (i=Blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 14:56.59 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:57.06 | krLun | hey, i wonder about the GPS in neo1973 GTA02.. has it not been decided between ublox & atmel? or what does the topic mean with u-blox/Atmel? |
| 14:57.42 | Writchie | krLun: ublox uses the Atmel silicon |
| 14:57.53 | krLun | oh |
| 14:58.24 | krLun | i read the datasheets on ATR0635, seems to be a complete GPS chipset though? |
| 14:58.27 | krLun | what does ublox add? |
| 14:58.44 | SpeedEvil | A metal box. |
| 14:58.58 | Writchie | krLun: AFAIK it's a module encorporated the ATR0635 - BT also uses a module rather than the raw chip. |
| 14:59.34 | krLun | "module"? the asics is a module, isn't it? |
| 14:59.41 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 14:59.44 | SpeedEvil | It's a single chip |
| 15:00.02 | SpeedEvil | the module comprises a shielding box, assorted components that go round the chip. |
| 15:00.04 | krLun | well, isn't that a module? gps functionality grouped into a single chip/module |
| 15:00.09 | krLun | ok |
| 15:00.12 | Writchie | but need an TXCO |
| 15:00.16 | krLun | like capacitators etc? |
| 15:00.16 | SpeedEvil | the chip is you solder it onto your own PCB |
| 15:00.20 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 15:00.53 | krLun | so this box, i hope it won't be an external thing to neo? so i have to carry it around along side with the neo |
| 15:00.55 | Writchie | more like your machine solders it |
| 15:01.18 | Writchie | it built - in - invisible |
| 15:01.36 | krLun | goodie |
| 15:02.22 | krLun | how is it attached to the neo? is the box soldered, or cabled? i ask because it could be interesting to re-use the gps module in some other uC project of mine |
| 15:02.41 | Writchie | krLun: you can buy the modules if you want for about $100 |
| 15:02.49 | roh | krLun its not a module. its integrated into the pcb |
| 15:03.06 | roh | krLun the design is nearly identical to what you can buy as module from ublox |
| 15:03.31 | roh | afaik ublox did all the design and uses atmel to manuf. the silicon. atleast thats how i understood that. |
| 15:03.44 | roh | antares4 is the name of the whole thing |
| 15:03.48 | krLun | ok |
| 15:04.06 | krLun | why not u-blox 5? |
| 15:04.24 | *** join/#openmoko kjetilk (n=kjetil@pooh.kjernsmo.net) |
| 15:04.28 | krLun | galileo is more accurate than gps, isn't it |
| 15:04.34 | SpeedEvil | krLun: no |
| 15:04.41 | SpeedEvil | krLun: galileo has one (1) satellite up. |
| 15:04.46 | SpeedEvil | Actually, it may be 2. |
| 15:04.49 | krLun | his makes u-blox 5 receivers the best all-round GPS chip offering in the market in terms of accuracy, reliability, performance and cost. |
| 15:04.50 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. |
| 15:04.59 | roh | krLun ublox5 isn't there yet afaik |
| 15:05.04 | Writchie | ATR0635 is also WAAS capable |
| 15:05.05 | SpeedEvil | It's the best part of a decade off a positioning system anyway. |
| 15:05.10 | krLun | k |
| 15:05.25 | roh | and galileo is also not active yet. atleast not for regular use (only 1 or 2 sats up yet) |
| 15:05.26 | Writchie | and accepts differential corrections |
| 15:05.57 | Writchie | if the other serial ports are used - which may or may not be the case |
| 15:06.07 | kjetilk | Hi all! I'm in China and wondering if I should try to get the Neo if I can find it... |
| 15:06.27 | krLun | is the usb-port pins of the antaris 4 available for external connection on the neo? |
| 15:06.49 | Writchie | unluckly |
| 15:06.51 | kjetilk | ....the wiki indicates the answer may be no, but... |
| 15:07.09 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope_ (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:07.20 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M8286.m.pppool.de) |
| 15:07.26 | Writchie | krLun: if you want to play a module is probably your best bet rather than hacking up the neo hardware |
| 15:07.30 | roh | krLun nope. the chip is connected to the appcpu via serial for saving power. |
| 15:07.52 | Writchie | roh: just the one serial? |
| 15:08.03 | roh | krLun but you can just use regular gpsd on the phone and access that via ip over bluetooth or usb-eth for example |
| 15:08.15 | krLun | ok |
| 15:08.19 | krLun | thats cool |
| 15:08.33 | roh | Writchie jap. why more? |
| 15:08.40 | Writchie | differential corrections |
| 15:08.54 | roh | Writchie? |
| 15:09.14 | cb22 | so, how will the DGPS systems work? |
| 15:09.18 | cb22 | transparently or otherwise? |
| 15:09.38 | Writchie | the chip is designed to accept inputs for correcting GPS using known postitions and signal receptions in a local area. |
| 15:10.12 | cb22 | yes, but how does it correct the position? |
| 15:10.20 | Writchie | roh: this improves accuracy, also its less of an improvement now that SA is turned off. |
| 15:10.20 | *** join/#openmoko thos (i=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 15:10.35 | krLun | SA? |
| 15:11.06 | Writchie | krLun: Selective Availability - scrambling some of the signal for non-military users, |
| 15:11.16 | Writchie | which reduces accuracy by a factor of 10 |
| 15:11.41 | cb22 | although WAAS and EGNOS and the like still increase accuracy |
| 15:12.03 | Writchie | the WAAS adds a signal from a geosynchronous satellite which dramatically improves vertical accuracy |
| 15:12.10 | thos | zedstar: do you still have the keyboard problem with password entry? |
| 15:12.21 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: which went away in 1998 |
| 15:12.25 | SpeedEvil | (or was it 6 |
| 15:12.31 | roh | Writchie well.. but why should that need a second serial or usb? |
| 15:12.32 | Writchie | clinton: |
| 15:12.34 | zedstar | hi thos.... erm yeh |
| 15:12.54 | Writchie | it's how you communicate the differential correction data to the chip |
| 15:12.57 | thos | zedstar: do you have the source code available somewhere? |
| 15:12.58 | zedstar | thos, although i havent updated for a while |
| 15:13.08 | thos | zedstar: or could you open a bug with an example? |
| 15:13.54 | zedstar | thos: yeh i could do.... i have the source.... will look when im home... it was just a normal gtk password type entry thingie |
| 15:14.33 | krLun | Writchie, should you not be able to send data to the chip through one serial port then? |
| 15:14.43 | krLun | i thought it was bi-directional |
| 15:15.08 | SpeedEvil | Serial is bidirectional. This does not mean the chip is listening for correction data or will understand it on that port. |
| 15:15.12 | roh | krLunit is. |
| 15:15.30 | Writchie | krLun: i'm not sure there is a way to configure it for all features using just one serial port. |
| 15:15.32 | krLun | ok, so we cannot correct the chip using the current design? |
| 15:15.40 | krLun | in favor of power savings? |
| 15:16.10 | roh | Writchie please read the docs. the agps information gets into the chip via serial. |
| 15:16.31 | zedstar | thos all i do is ... gtk_entry_set_visibility (GTK_ENTRY (password), FALSE); and then gtk_entry_set_invisible_char (GTK_ENTRY (password), '*'); on a normal text field |
| 15:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko unix (n=unix@84-73-164-201.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:17.07 | SpeedEvil | krLun: the GPS chip supports a number of power saving modes. |
| 15:17.23 | un1x | hi guys |
| 15:17.29 | thos | zedstar: ok |
| 15:17.46 | krLun | also, is the neo1973 circuit schematics available online? searched the wiki without any success |
| 15:17.56 | rxr | I think not |
| 15:17.56 | SpeedEvil | krLun: no |
| 15:18.13 | un1x | i'm trying to install openmoko with Xephyr but I'm getting always the same error when I'm doing make openmoko-devel-image |
| 15:18.36 | zedstar | thos: is that all u need or still need bug filed? |
| 15:18.55 | krLun | is the circuit proprietary? |
| 15:19.24 | SpeedEvil | krLun: yes |
| 15:19.29 | krLun | why? |
| 15:19.35 | SpeedEvil | funktio: the hardware is open in the driver sense. |
| 15:19.50 | SpeedEvil | krLun: it's not open in the 'here is the schematic to build your own' sense. |
| 15:20.15 | SpeedEvil | As FIC is a phone maker, and they want the profits from selling you phones. |
| 15:20.33 | roh | krLun no. the schems are closed for now. we have released the debugboard schems and eventually will release partial schems later, but no bom, gerber and also with blackboxes for the gsm part (3rd party ip) |
| 15:21.21 | krLun | so, the makers could for instance hook-up the GPS with the GSM chip and allow it to send my position ? this could be hidden in hardware, so i cannot detect it in sw |
| 15:21.35 | un1x | can someone help me out with this compilation problem -> http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m64e4009d ? |
| 15:21.36 | roh | krLun but we released the gpio wirings and all drivers are opensource by concept. if you have a specific question on the hardware, just ask. i can look into the schem and see what i can tell you |
| 15:21.51 | thos | zedstar: a bug would be useful so we can track the issue |
| 15:21.52 | SpeedEvil | krLun: yup. |
| 15:22.13 | SpeedEvil | krLun: However, releasing schematics doesn't help wit that. |
| 15:22.20 | krLun | i mean, ive heard that some ppl / organisations want to implement a way to extract the GPS position of each phone |
| 15:22.23 | Writchie | roh: BTW I have read the docs - you have 3 different protocols and two available serial ports on the chip. If you are using only one serial port, then you have 3 protocols and only one on the chip. |
| 15:22.41 | zedstar | thos no problem will try and do it later tonight |
| 15:22.43 | roh | krLun well.. still youre in control, since gsm and gps power are under control of the app-cpu/pmu combo for which you have all code and drivers. |
| 15:22.58 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 15:23.18 | krLun | roh, well, obviously i want to use the two components individually, i just don't want them to do stuff "together" without me knowing about it |
| 15:23.30 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 15:23.30 | roh | krLun besides that the position of your phone is stored in the HLR of the gsm network youre connected to either way, even without any gps in a phone |
| 15:23.53 | roh | krLun well.. be assured that harald an me will always be watching that such a thin does not happen |
| 15:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko nibbler (n=nibbler@as250.net) |
| 15:24.19 | thos | has anyone else noticed their Neo restarting randomly? |
| 15:24.24 | krLun | roh, well, if the position stored in HLR is so accurate, why would they want to replace it with GPS coords? :) |
| 15:24.32 | roh | Writchie you only need to use one proto i think. |
| 15:24.38 | krLun | i know you can triangulate a phone by measuring its signal to different base-stations |
| 15:24.45 | cb22 | krLun, cause the phone cant do it |
| 15:24.54 | nibbler | the location stored in HLRs is not very accurate |
| 15:24.57 | cb22 | AFAIK the towers and the network can, but the phone cant |
| 15:25.00 | roh | Writchie nmea for legacy, ubx for all features which nmea cannot do and the 3rd i do not know yet |
| 15:25.02 | Writchie | roh: I think you may be able to use UBX and then fake the others from that |
| 15:25.04 | Plasma_GR | that's their problem |
| 15:25.06 | krLun | cb22, yeah, thats what i meant |
| 15:25.19 | krLun | the thing is, i don't want THE MAN knowing where I am |
| 15:25.19 | krLun | :D |
| 15:25.22 | nibbler | they only store the current msc association there |
| 15:25.26 | Writchie | roh: the third is RTCM which is what i was talking about. |
| 15:25.38 | Writchie | RTCM provides differential corrections |
| 15:25.39 | roh | krLun who wants? the thing is: we build gsm phones for users, not for the carriers like the rest of the industry. |
| 15:25.46 | Writchie | its widely used in marine applications |
| 15:25.49 | nibbler | that gives you a resolution for geocoordinates that is in the range of... larger cities orso |
| 15:25.54 | Writchie | or was |
| 15:26.13 | roh | krLun and since gsm also relies on keeping old devices working we will not be forced to send out anything like coordinates soon. |
| 15:26.14 | ewon | in an urban are a gsm node can be ~1km |
| 15:26.14 | abraxa_ | thos: I haven't heard of Neos restarting randomly, no |
| 15:26.31 | ewon | in a rural setting it can be quite a number of km |
| 15:26.38 | roh | Writchie well.. where should this differential informations come from? |
| 15:26.39 | telmich | roh: I think the whole openmoko project is pretty cool and I really hope you get enough money for it to continue it in the next years |
| 15:26.40 | thos | abraxa_: mine seems to :-/ |
| 15:26.42 | nibbler | plus: i noticed that some gsm operators do some load balancing that causes that the current msc the user is handled over is somewhere geographically entirely different |
| 15:26.55 | krLun | roh, yeah, i get that.. its just that, the neo makers might be biased :) and influenced by some government |
| 15:26.57 | roh | telmich i don't see that as a problem right now ;) |
| 15:27.00 | telmich | roh: I relaly think it's the right way to go; and perhaps the neo and it's software will be the base for other phones later |
| 15:27.06 | abraxa_ | thos: Tried a different battery? Maybe that's the culprit |
| 15:27.07 | Writchie | roh: it comes from fixed stations at known locations |
| 15:27.12 | telmich | roh: that's good |
| 15:27.16 | thos | abraxa_: yeah this is a different battery |
| 15:27.21 | Writchie | RTCM is the protocol for passing this data |
| 15:27.30 | roh | krLun as long as i read the schems be assured i would tell you if. ;) |
| 15:27.46 | krLun | roh: goodie :) are you a developer? |
| 15:28.08 | Writchie | roh: if UBX has everything in it, a suitable driver could handle RTCM and NMEA on pty's exportable to BT etc. |
| 15:28.08 | ewon | I plan on writing a small daemon (data plan permitting) that sends my gps coords to my co-lo server, where some logic will use it to update a public-facing .kml |
| 15:28.23 | roh | krLun my job is developer relations. that means internal as well as external developers we hired as well as the hackers out there/the community of developers |
| 15:28.29 | cb22 | so we can track you ewon ? :) |
| 15:28.49 | krLun | roh, ok, thats cool, so you know both worlds |
| 15:28.54 | roh | Writchie well.. the bluetooth-rfcomm<->gpsd should be totally generic |
| 15:29.00 | roh | krLun jap. |
| 15:29.03 | krLun | i can't wait to get my hands on a GTA02 |
| 15:29.08 | cb22 | +1 krLun |
| 15:29.17 | Plasma_GR | +1 guys |
| 15:29.20 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 15:29.21 | nibbler | ewon: i'd so love to replace my nokia sportstracker with that ;-) |
| 15:29.35 | Henryk | oh, hi nibbler :) |
| 15:29.37 | cb22 | i _really_ cant wait :( |
| 15:29.44 | cb22 | i have a p990 and a v3x now, and i still cant wait :( |
| 15:29.49 | Writchie | roh: yes, you just need a daemon to handle NMEA/RTCM on one side and UBX on the other |
| 15:29.49 | nibbler | Henryque! |
| 15:29.51 | krLun | i have this BULLSHIT phone from motorola now, it reboots randomly, lags a lot, the only thing keeping me from throwing it out is that i need a phone until december |
| 15:29.58 | ewon | I thought discussing the GTA02 would result in laforge breaking your fingers or something |
| 15:30.06 | cb22 | krLun, which phone? |
| 15:30.13 | krLun | its a V360 |
| 15:30.16 | cb22 | first rule of gta02.... |
| 15:30.17 | roh | *sigh* you see.. half of the people wants so submit their data by choise, the rest does not want to at all... thats why we need om. so everyone has a choice |
| 15:30.17 | krLun | low-end crap |
| 15:30.23 | cb22 | krLun, have you tried flashing it? |
| 15:30.39 | nibbler | cb22: the p990 is one of the few phones i'm unsure if an openmoko would not be the more stable and mature alternative ;) |
| 15:30.43 | roh | Writchie gsmd does nmea and i think also ubx partially.. feel free to hack on it |
| 15:30.48 | krLun | cb22, yeah, its flashed .. but it's not like i got a lot of firmware to choose from :) |
| 15:31.14 | cb22 | heh, i used to be quite active with the motorola e398 scene a while back :) |
| 15:31.17 | cb22 | that was lots of fun |
| 15:31.18 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.96.206) |
| 15:31.19 | Henryk | would be cool if gsmd would do proper at for a start |
| 15:31.21 | Plasma_GR | Well i always wondered, should i wait till the next release of neo? I am not a developer at all but I can be... Im not sure if I want the phone when it gets out... What do you think? |
| 15:31.23 | cb22 | gotta love those russians |
| 15:31.34 | roh | ewon discussing any propabilities of releasedates would end in harald getting mad. thats right.. me too.. it just does not make any sense |
| 15:31.42 | cb22 | nibbler, the p990 is going to be the neo's slave |
| 15:31.51 | cb22 | it will be a wifi 3g device for it :) |
| 15:31.52 | nibbler | cb22 ;) |
| 15:31.58 | Writchie | roh: is the GTA02 stock Antaris 4 Protocol or something modified for OM |
| 15:32.02 | cb22 | and a camera for it |
| 15:32.06 | roh | Henryk feel free to rewrite it ;) it was a hack from the start and never intended to be used as it is |
| 15:32.06 | cb22 | and a keyboard for it |
| 15:32.09 | krLun | cb22: so i basically replaced a branded firmware, with a slightly updated unbranded firmware .. and i think i may have damaged the hw slightly during the flash (had to drill a hole, and short a TP pin). I guess thats what causing the spontaneous reboots |
| 15:32.19 | cb22 | heh |
| 15:32.24 | cb22 | havent you tried a custom firmware? |
| 15:32.38 | cb22 | like one from yuet |
| 15:32.45 | krLun | yeah, thats what i use |
| 15:32.46 | Henryk | roh: i know, i know. (i was just answering your "gsmd does nmea") :) |
| 15:32.47 | nibbler | cb22: good choice ;) |
| 15:32.51 | krLun | yuet |
| 15:32.53 | cb22 | ah right |
| 15:32.59 | roh | Writchie its the regular stock antares4 so you can switch it to any of the 3 Ãprotos as you want. a modle from ublox should even behave _exactly_ like the chipset integrated into the gta02 |
| 15:33.11 | krLun | the mac os x theme is nice though |
| 15:33.15 | krLun | i like it on my v360 |
| 15:33.18 | Writchie | roh: great! |
| 15:33.46 | roh | Henryk uh.. my bad.. gpsd/gsmd is just too foo for me sometimes and my fingers write something different than my brain want to |
| 15:33.46 | cb22 | krLun, actually though, there is some cool working going on for the e398 |
| 15:33.50 | cb22 | like a binary loader.... |
| 15:34.37 | roh | Writchie we adhere to standards where possible and reasonable. i think thats important to differenciate from the ce-industry |
| 15:35.05 | Writchie | roh: agreed - with caveats |
| 15:36.04 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 15:36.07 | roh | well.. in the end we want to have something to touch, so we have to be pragmatic sometimes ,) |
| 15:36.12 | Henryk | boah, downloads.openmoko.org in PREMIRRORS is really annoying currently. in about one out of 20 cases the download stalls |
| 15:36.36 | Writchie | roh: i'm not absolutely sure you want the differentiation that your platform will never be used by someone cooperating with an operator. |
| 15:37.22 | roh | Writchie well, we do not rule out that. but we will continue to build hackable devices, so you always would be able to connect to jtag and flash what you wish |
| 15:38.03 | nibbler | cb22: sad thing is that the P1i sucks too :( got my sample from s/e these days and deeply disappointed |
| 15:38.09 | Writchie | roh: well nothing can be with SIM Toolkit, for example, if you disabled it all from the modem firmware build |
| 15:38.12 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=StealthC@user-544167cd.l6.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 15:38.29 | roh | Writchie jap. but do you want stk? |
| 15:38.37 | roh | afaik we disabled it completely |
| 15:38.59 | Writchie | roh: I can think of many use cases |
| 15:39.25 | nibbler | Writchie: the problem with stk is that some networks depend on it |
| 15:39.34 | Writchie | roh: remember open source is use by businesses as well. |
| 15:39.41 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 15:39.46 | nibbler | Writchie: which sucks of course, from an engineering pov |
| 15:39.52 | krLun | what is stk? |
| 15:40.01 | nibbler | krLun: sim application toolkit |
| 15:40.12 | Writchie | you also have the choice of which network you use. |
| 15:40.17 | krLun | what is it used for? |
| 15:40.34 | nibbler | it's at least partially in GSM 03.48 i guess |
| 15:40.47 | roh | Writchie well. the stk is not opensource and will probably never be. so for security reasons we left it out. but when we ever have the need we could build a gsm-fw with it i think... |
| 15:40.48 | nibbler | krLun: communication with the applications on the sim card |
| 15:40.58 | Writchie | if you choose to use a network that takes advantage of sim tool to deliver some marketable functionality, you cannot use an OM for it. |
| 15:41.11 | roh | and after the updating in the field is worked out .. well.. yeah.. its all about users choice again |
| 15:41.24 | nibbler | krLun: operators can over-the-air reprogram your sim via sms and your sim can interact with the user over dialogs and with the network via sms (data sms) |
| 15:41.30 | nibbler | s/data/binary/ |
| 15:41.36 | Writchie | roh: that sounds encouraging. |
| 15:42.02 | krLun | oh, didn't know the sim cards had actual software on it |
| 15:42.07 | roh | krLun stk could be used to 'backup' all your contacts on the sim and things like last called logs elsewhere... without you even knowing.. |
| 15:42.13 | roh | atleast in theory |
| 15:42.20 | krLun | omg! we DON'T want that! |
| 15:42.21 | krLun | :) |
| 15:42.43 | roh | well.. thats why we disabled it for security reasons for now. |
| 15:42.45 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.222.194) |
| 15:43.01 | Writchie | krLun: i'm not sure you understand it fully. |
| 15:43.02 | krLun | so a provider could send me sms messages, which makes arbitrary code on my sim card execute? |
| 15:43.06 | krLun | thats scary |
| 15:43.17 | Writchie | the operator ones the sim card. |
| 15:43.18 | cjb_ie | krLun: you hope it's a provider ;-) |
| 15:43.22 | nibbler | it would actually be really great to trace stk actions |
| 15:43.25 | nibbler | with the moko |
| 15:43.31 | Writchie | it's an extentsion of the network. |
| 15:43.44 | krLun | ones? |
| 15:44.15 | Writchie | operator "owns" |
| 15:44.23 | krLun | oh, right |
| 15:44.49 | krLun | so i can actually send such sms:es to my current phone, and it will execute? |
| 15:44.58 | nibbler | yup |
| 15:45.04 | nibbler | well - i see stk as a great feature |
| 15:45.18 | nibbler | if you are the one implementing the stk applications :> |
| 15:45.23 | krLun | is there a reference for how these messages should look? and what security measures are in place? |
| 15:45.43 | krLun | like, i guess not any phone could send these special sms:es to any other phone |
| 15:46.03 | SpeedEvil | Are cell broadcasts recievable by phones not logged onto the network? |
| 15:46.09 | nibbler | krLun: the messages are at least in some way signed - that's sure |
| 15:46.22 | nibbler | krLun: you can easily when you have smsc connectivity |
| 15:46.22 | SpeedEvil | If for example there are too many phones in a cell. |
| 15:46.29 | nibbler | which is not that problematic to get/buy |
| 15:46.54 | Henryk | didn't we even have a talk about fun things most smartphones can be made to do last cccongress? |
| 15:47.00 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: in theory, but I don't think they are presented if the phone is not registered. |
| 15:47.09 | Writchie | perhaps: if the mode is set to receive only |
| 15:47.10 | krLun | and by disabling this STK feature, the moko will only treat the messages as binary blobs? |
| 15:47.30 | Writchie | which brings up the question of what application uses "transmit only" ;) |
| 15:50.08 | Writchie | krLun: some messages may be handed by SIM card and other by higher protocol layers. OTA programming "Over the Air" |
| 15:50.51 | Writchie | krLun: there's a lot of stuff in GSM - 20 years worth, 2 billion phones, GSM industry is not stupid people. |
| 15:51.24 | Writchie | but there is a lot of jockeying between operators, manufacturers, big users |
| 15:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 15:52.07 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:52.38 | nibbler | Writchie: the problem is that the 3gpp standards are not designed by engineers in consortiums but by "the industry" and is more than moderately influenced by marketing decissions |
| 15:52.44 | emdete | so what about the more interesting sms like wap-push? smsd does not decode those currently or am i wrong? |
| 15:53.08 | *** join/#openmoko x42 (n=x42@dslb-084-063-097-214.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:53.17 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 15:53.37 | Writchie | nibbler: both engineers and marketers |
| 15:53.44 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^ (n=user@r201-221-38-55.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 15:53.46 | x42 | 6 |
| 15:54.15 | Writchie | marketing happens to be useful |
| 15:54.37 | SpeedEvil | To an extent. |
| 15:55.01 | Writchie | good engineers listen to marketers - good marketers listen to engineers. |
| 15:55.13 | nibbler | Writchie: the problem is the lack of both probably ;) |
| 15:55.24 | Writchie | there are never enuf |
| 15:55.32 | Writchie | good ones that is. |
| 15:55.58 | Writchie | so mistakes are repeated again and again by each generation |
| 15:57.09 | nibbler | but i rather prefer a only-engineers-not-listening-to-marketing instance that defines standards more than having both tinkering stuff together |
| 15:57.37 | Henryk | hmm, that's worse than politics. politics will only repeat big mistakes every two generations |
| 15:58.03 | SpeedEvil | The optimum is for engineers to listen to marketing closely and then ignore most of it. |
| 15:58.04 | Writchie | standards provide a way to meet requirements |
| 15:58.25 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: well as a practical matter, absolutely ;) |
| 15:58.50 | un1x | somehow I have prblems building u-boot with armv4 |
| 15:58.51 | Writchie | pinning requirements is the most difficult part of any product development IMNSHO |
| 15:59.09 | emdete | nobody interested in wap-push or even mms (which is in fact nothing but a sms containing a url)? |
| 15:59.41 | Writchie | emdete: there are some (like me) interested in all of it. |
| 15:59.56 | Writchie | emdete: but basic infrastructure has to come first |
| 15:59.57 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE6EC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:00.43 | emdete | :D mine wap-push/mms sms say 8bit encoded and aren't decoded. there is no decoder like for 7bit. do you have example code for that or even the spec? |
| 16:01.09 | Writchie | emdete: there is some open source on the net. |
| 16:01.44 | Writchie | emdete: there is a need for library for full sms parsing/conversion to UTF-8 |
| 16:01.58 | emdete | Writchie: do u have a link? or a project name? |
| 16:01.59 | Writchie | IMHO everything should be UTF-8 at upper layers |
| 16:02.08 | emdete | Writchie: yes. |
| 16:02.21 | emdete | Writchie: or unicode :) |
| 16:02.21 | Writchie | IIRC it was an sms gateway project open sms gateway |
| 16:02.30 | emdete | kannel? |
| 16:02.37 | Writchie | UTF-8 is unicode. |
| 16:02.41 | emdete | Writchie: nox-Hand |
| 16:02.43 | emdete | oups |
| 16:02.52 | emdete | Writchie: no, utf-8 != unicode |
| 16:03.05 | emdete | it's an encoding for unicode ;) |
| 16:03.08 | Henryk | though of course the statement is still true |
| 16:03.09 | Writchie | emdete: utf-8 encode full unicode |
| 16:03.26 | Writchie | unicode is actually 32 bit |
| 16:03.49 | emdete | Writchie: shure. but java for example does not use utf-8 internally as far as i know |
| 16:03.54 | *** part/#openmoko thos (i=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 16:03.59 | emdete | they use utf-16 or similar |
| 16:04.01 | *** join/#openmoko XXLT (n=XXLT@herkules.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de) |
| 16:04.55 | emdete | utf-8 has some drawbacks for rendering because of char-len and byte-len differences :/ |
| 16:05.00 | Henryk | everything should be UTF-8 at upper layers, or at least unicode |
| 16:05.16 | Writchie | emdete: you can convert as needed. |
| 16:05.50 | Writchie | an sms library needs to have functions to compute how many characters will fit in an sms encoding. |
| 16:06.01 | emdete | Writchie: but back to the question: i tried to understand kannel's source but failed - do u know a smaller project doing mms/8bit decode of sms? |
| 16:06.52 | Writchie | emdete: it's best to start with specs - because its a bit complex. |
| 16:07.23 | Writchie | there is an ad-hoc gsm character set (13 languages i think ) in 7 bits |
| 16:07.39 | Writchie | and 8 for Latin-x |
| 16:07.45 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44a665.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 16:07.54 | Writchie | and ucs2 (16 bit) for others like chinese |
| 16:08.19 | Writchie | 7 bits are packed in messages in a funky reversed order IIRC |
| 16:08.42 | Stephmw | I really wished they'd gone for pascale or basic-style strings in mobile dev |
| 16:08.46 | Stephmw | *pascal |
| 16:09.00 | SpeedEvil | You have very few chars. |
| 16:09.07 | SpeedEvil | 200 or so 8 bit |
| 16:09.14 | SpeedEvil | or rather 1600 bits or so. |
| 16:09.22 | Writchie | when SMS was specified the Z80 was king |
| 16:09.26 | SpeedEvil | If you pack them down to 7 bit, you get an extra 14% or so. |
| 16:09.38 | SpeedEvil | SMS wasn't really specified as such. |
| 16:09.39 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: this was very important |
| 16:09.45 | Stephmw | I'm more concerned with buffer overruns |
| 16:09.49 | SpeedEvil | It fell out of the spec when someone noticed it. |
| 16:10.02 | Henryk | Stephmw: pascal? *shudder* |
| 16:10.06 | SpeedEvil | (the fact that there was the possibility to do it) |
| 16:10.39 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:10.40 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: possibility to do what? |
| 16:11.00 | SpeedEvil | Send SMS in what was defined as reserved space (AIUI) |
| 16:11.08 | Stephmw | Henryk: having the string length stored in the same structure has advantages |
| 16:11.12 | Writchie | emdete: there is also a formatting known as EMS |
| 16:11.25 | Henryk | Nobody will ever need a string longer than 255 bytes. |
| 16:12.00 | Stephmw | nobody needs to _count_ the length of a large string... oh. |
| 16:12.02 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:12.03 | SpeedEvil | SMS is actually about the right length for semi-interactive mobile-mobile messages. |
| 16:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 16:12.16 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: SMS was fully defined IIRC around 96 as part of PhaseII |
| 16:12.16 | SpeedEvil | IMO. |
| 16:12.55 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: I agree its just about the right length for Short Messages |
| 16:13.02 | ozarka | SpeedEvil: I agree with you on SMS length. |
| 16:13.09 | Writchie | in Chinese it drops to half the characters. |
| 16:13.19 | SpeedEvil | But aren't the chars richer? |
| 16:13.19 | ozarka | Some phones handle longer messages semi-transparently. |
| 16:13.21 | Writchie | but Chinese characters carry twice the content or better |
| 16:13.31 | Writchie | ozarka: most |
| 16:13.36 | ozarka | Breaking up the message and putting them together. |
| 16:13.40 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 16:13.51 | Writchie | ozarka: its part of the spec now |
| 16:14.00 | Stephmw | isn't order not guaranteed? |
| 16:14.12 | ozarka | Writchie: The more you know! Consider me informed. :-) |
| 16:14.21 | Writchie | there is a character for this. |
| 16:14.40 | Writchie | s/character/protocol indicator sequence/ |
| 16:15.26 | Writchie | gsm is very opposite of the internet human readable at a teletype protocol model |
| 16:15.38 | Writchie | its from the days when bits mattered. |
| 16:16.11 | Writchie | imagine processing xml on a z80 |
| 16:16.14 | Writchie | on the fly |
| 16:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@dslb-088-068-192-164.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:17.10 | Writchie | on a z80 |
| 16:17.11 | cb22 | ooh, fun |
| 16:17.14 | SpeedEvil | It's not really compact. |
| 16:17.17 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178201008.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:17.19 | CM | SpeedEvil: OOXML spec? ;) |
| 16:17.31 | SpeedEvil | I think that with a trivial binary protocol I can pack the data into 600M |
| 16:17.32 | ozarka | You should use a computer for that SpeedEvil. |
| 16:17.51 | SpeedEvil | It's the current OpenStreetmap weekly planet dump. |
| 16:18.33 | hrw | useless here ;( |
| 16:18.38 | SpeedEvil | Why? |
| 16:18.45 | hrw | no coverage |
| 16:18.51 | SpeedEvil | You're in .nl |
| 16:18.56 | hrw | no - in .pl |
| 16:18.56 | SpeedEvil | You have complete coverage. |
| 16:18.58 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 16:19.04 | hrw | I just use .nl account on irc |
| 16:19.24 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A54923.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:19.28 | SpeedEvil | hrw: well - you have GPS, you have ... |
| 16:19.47 | SpeedEvil | google-maps is of course preferable for 99.999% users. |
| 16:20.19 | CM | They suck for Sweden, unfortunately :-/ |
| 16:20.28 | hrw | SpeedEvil: I even have two gps units - bv3 and bv4 |
| 16:20.31 | SpeedEvil | Until it comes to being able to freely download maps. |
| 16:21.08 | hrw | SpeedEvil: create working application for neo to gather data for osm and I will start using it |
| 16:21.21 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 16:21.25 | SpeedEvil | I have actually. |
| 16:21.37 | SpeedEvil | It's main component is tail -f|gzip -9 though. |
| 16:23.35 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.164.207) |
| 16:23.46 | Stephmw | after seeing this, 'plays' has so many added meanings... http://www.cibercomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/peteysa1.jpg |
| 16:24.06 | CM | Heh, it crashed on wikipedia.com |
| 16:24.57 | cb22 | Stephmw, lol |
| 16:24.58 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:25.00 | hrw | SpeedEvil: the bad part is that traces are then parsed by java app |
| 16:25.13 | hrw | java and amd64 are hard to match |
| 16:25.39 | CM | Sure is.. :( |
| 16:25.44 | Stephmw | cb22: "Hi! My name is Spiderman... and some perv felt me up" |
| 16:26.05 | SpeedEvil | hrw: java or flash |
| 16:26.19 | cb22 | CM, can i join you in pondering? |
| 16:26.29 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@abinsbett.org) |
| 16:27.52 | SpeedEvil | There has been a major sea-change with OSM - segments have gone away. |
| 16:27.56 | *** join/#openmoko famelix (n=famelix@201.67.209.53) |
| 16:28.02 | CM | cb22: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/10/17/on-to-taipei/ |
| 16:28.06 | famelix | nick vinicius |
| 16:28.07 | SpeedEvil | So there are rough edges left from the changeover. |
| 16:28.10 | cb22 | CM, i saw it |
| 16:28.18 | cb22 | i'm also wondering what it means... |
| 16:29.06 | SpeedEvil | cb22: black/silver or orange/green |
| 16:29.07 | CM | I'm guessing marketing vs engineers disagreements |
| 16:29.15 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, the ultimate question :) |
| 16:29.29 | cb22 | CM, heh, thats a bad one... UF comes to mind |
| 16:30.57 | *** join/#openmoko DonaldShimoda (n=ggentile@200.127.123.23) |
| 16:31.08 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-085-216-001-036.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:31.18 | PBeck | hi |
| 16:33.52 | *** join/#openmoko Lunpa (n=lunpa@rch85-2-88-163-221-31.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__35 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-e2a521ea80646259) |
| 16:35.07 | SpeedEvil | hrw: wow - poland is quite empty. |
| 16:36.39 | hrw | exactly |
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| 16:38.33 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
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| 16:40.11 | abraxa_ | cb22 / CM: I would suspect mickey's hint was more aimed towards the content of the "Phone functionality in GUI applications" thread |
| 16:40.24 | abraxa_ | (On framework-devel) |
| 16:40.32 | SpeedEvil | I was 'only' 2Km from the nearest feature (a railway line) and 10Km from a road. |
| 16:41.56 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 16:43.06 | CM | abraxa_: Oh, ok |
| 16:49.26 | CM | Hmm.. Only 53.7% of the screen is used to actually show the page you browse: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/83d87bb229c706413e446861e4ac2ab9.png |
| 16:49.57 | CM | anrp: Sure? :D |
| 16:50.06 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@2001:618:1a23:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 16:50.11 | anrp | not entirely |
| 16:50.14 | SpeedEvil | I agree. I found FF actually usable. - with some extensions to help. |
| 16:50.35 | CM | Seriously, it's only 604x273 pixels or so |
| 16:50.53 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: don't suppose you have a blog/website do you? |
| 16:50.55 | SpeedEvil | FF - not running just displaying on the neo |
| 16:51.06 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: no |
| 16:51.19 | SpeedEvil | You know who you are. |
| 16:51.23 | CM | SpeedEvil: That's a shame, you have a lot to say ;) |
| 16:51.29 | StealthCP | I think you mean |
| 16:51.47 | StealthCP | wait, what? |
| 16:51.59 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: sorry - mistab. |
| 16:52.02 | CM | StealthCP: Hehe.. He was answering Stephmw |
| 16:52.06 | StealthCP | Yeah, thought so :P |
| 16:52.25 | Stephmw | ahhh |
| 16:52.30 | SpeedEvil | It's not actually mistab. |
| 16:52.43 | SpeedEvil | It's that I've got into the bad habit of just using xxx: |
| 16:52.43 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-189-207.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:54.04 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-179-180.42-151.net24.it) |
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| 16:54.34 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p5B3BAE2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:54.40 | vinicius1987 | wheres mickey from? |
| 16:55.34 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 16:56.05 | CM | vinicius1987: Is Germany specific enough? |
| 16:57.16 | vinicius1987 | yes |
| 16:57.48 | vinicius1987 | Not from baviera? |
| 16:58.11 | CM | FFM I think |
| 16:58.20 | *** join/#openmoko _diego_ (n=diego@host-84-222-10-16.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:59.03 | abraxa_ | vinicius1987: FFM, yes |
| 16:59.20 | vinicius1987 | ok |
| 17:01.07 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 17:03.00 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host190-122-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:03.30 | hrw | SpeedEvil: so how you gather gps tracks now? |
| 17:03.44 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/dogll |
| 17:04.07 | SpeedEvil | Then scp off the GPS tracks when I get back. GPSbabel to make them into a GPS track |
| 17:04.14 | SpeedEvil | Then scp off the GPS tracks when I get back. GPSbabel to make them into a GPX track |
| 17:04.21 | hrw | cupcake? |
| 17:04.46 | SpeedEvil | I don't remember what I called it. |
| 17:05.26 | hrw | SpeedEvil: anyway you have it in /usr/local/bin/ so please check ;) |
| 17:05.39 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-b55677d0e83d68cd) |
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| 17:17.51 | CM | Damit.. My neo seems to be bricked for real this time.. :( |
| 17:18.36 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@M8286.m.pppool.de) |
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| 17:28.38 | lalo | good grief, telepathy has a truckload of libs and daemons |
| 17:29.32 | xkr47 | libmindcontrol :) |
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| 17:37.02 | roh | lalo well telepathy is a nice idea.. but afaik it cannot even properly speak jabber, which makes it totally useless |
| 17:37.21 | Robot101 | roh: what?! |
| 17:37.22 | *** join/#openmoko plebz (n=plebz@209.62-50-178.enivest.net) |
| 17:37.30 | lalo | there's haze |
| 17:37.39 | roh | but i dunno if thats just missing implementation-bits or architectural problems |
| 17:37.47 | Robot101 | roh: what's the problem? |
| 17:38.01 | roh | Robot101 with telepathy you mean? |
| 17:38.17 | Robot101 | roh: with the jabber, yes |
| 17:39.25 | *** join/#openmoko develneubee (n=alok@203.193.154.146) |
| 17:39.26 | roh | Robot101 last time i checked there was no client outside of pre-alpha and no working backend which supported my not that high minimum implementation needs. which means 'properly speak jabber, muc, gpg, ssl/tls, multiple accounts on different jabber servers and transports |
| 17:40.01 | Robot101 | the infrastructure all works very well; it's used on the Nokia internet tablets |
| 17:40.17 | lalo | haze :-) |
| 17:40.17 | Robot101 | desktop client is being worked on, but in the case of the openmoko you'd make a specific UI anyway |
| 17:40.21 | Robot101 | so that's a bit of a red herring |
| 17:40.38 | Robot101 | jabber... muc and multiple accounts have been supported for years |
| 17:40.51 | roh | i agree. (about the gui) |
| 17:40.53 | Robot101 | ssl works, tls works but we've waiting for or about to make a loudmouth release |
| 17:41.02 | *** join/#openmoko DonaldShimoda (n=ggentile@200.127.123.23) |
| 17:41.11 | Robot101 | (it seems that because we're the most active users, we're now essentially the maintainers of loudmouth 1.3) |
| 17:41.17 | lalo | Robot101: by "we" you mean you're a telepathy developer? |
| 17:41.19 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@host103-77-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:41.34 | roh | Robot101 to be fair, i currently use gajim and are quite happy with it. i never could stand the stench or gaim or psi which both are unworkable for longer use |
| 17:41.36 | Robot101 | lalo: I'm pretty much the lead developer, yeah |
| 17:41.42 | lalo | cool! |
| 17:41.53 | roh | nice to know |
| 17:42.03 | Robot101 | although I'm also running a company so sometimes it seems I don't spend enough time on telepathy |
| 17:42.08 | lalo | I now who to bother if this project gets off the ground, then :-P |
| 17:42.44 | Robot101 | roh: transports we don't bother with because the intention is to provide richer implementations of the protocols directly using the telepathy API |
| 17:43.15 | Robot101 | and gpg you've totally got me atm, but it's not for any reason other than we havn't sat down and worked out how to do it |
| 17:43.44 | *** join/#openmoko thomasgruebler (n=thomasgr@85-124-167-249.work.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 17:43.53 | thomasgruebler | hello |
| 17:44.13 | thomasgruebler | i compiled with make and the akefile for over 18h |
| 17:44.17 | thomasgruebler | and http://rafb.net/p/MGVfwl76.html returned |
| 17:44.21 | thomasgruebler | so it didn work |
| 17:44.36 | CM | abraxa_: The mediaplayer seems to work ok, except that it sounds horrible because I have the wrong libmad |
| 17:44.37 | thomasgruebler | can you help me? |
| 17:44.47 | abraxa_ | CM: Yay :) |
| 17:44.51 | CM | abraxa_: But why oh why is the play-button backwards?!? |
| 17:44.52 | abraxa_ | CM: And how is your Neo borked? |
| 17:45.13 | roh | Robot101 well.. since aim an similar stuff is not bearable and i only use one of these via transport i cannot switch to a client which does not support that |
| 17:45.15 | abraxa_ | CM: You want to be spanked, eh? ;) |
| 17:45.15 | Robot101 | lalo: what project? you know we have a #telepathy on this network :) |
| 17:45.19 | CM | abraxa_: It refused to boot when I rebooted. Had to flash it 4 times before it got past loading the kernel |
| 17:45.26 | lalo | I know |
| 17:45.41 | lalo | I'll probably going to be joining it if I go on with the project |
| 17:45.42 | Robot101 | roh: the only thing that's unusual about a transport is just setting it up, we don't do that but the contacts you get will work fine for messaging and presence |
| 17:45.51 | abraxa_ | CM: *spanks* and swaps your Neo with a working one |
| 17:45.57 | lalo | I'm looking into using telepathy for all sorts of things in openmoko |
| 17:46.19 | Robot101 | lalo: I've spoken to sean and mickey a few times this year |
| 17:46.22 | CM | abraxa_: Hehe.. I'll get to fixing my uboot and uboot_env some time.. |
| 17:46.40 | lalo | first a chat client to learn the API :-) but the way I see it... there are some wheels getting reinvented that we probably don't need |
| 17:46.50 | CM | abraxa_: Did you see http://www.advogato.org/person/ensonic/diary.html?start=70 |
| 17:46.57 | *** part/#openmoko develneubee (n=alok@203.193.154.146) |
| 17:47.00 | lalo | IMO gsmd should be using telepathy... if it doesn't turn out to be possible for voice, then at least for SMS |
| 17:47.10 | Robot101 | lalo: right, exactly what I was saying... |
| 17:47.14 | roh | Robot101 don't misunderstand me, i know a lot people which do that, simply because they dont wanna update their clients everytime some idiot company changes the protocol. that basically moves the problem to the transport-admins, but at least you don't have to care (or give some evil company besides the server-admin of choice your ip) |
| 17:47.46 | Robot101 | roh: right, but there a lot more people who care more about the functionality that transports don't offer |
| 17:48.01 | Robot101 | roh: like calling, or file transfers, avatars, nudges, whatever |
| 17:48.10 | abraxa_ | CM: Damn, that is mighty useful. Thanks a ton for the hint! |
| 17:48.27 | CM | abraxa_: Really neat, I agree :) |
| 17:48.41 | CM | abraxa_: Now I'm expecting the best mediaplayer ever ;) |
| 17:48.53 | Robot101 | roh: and transports get disconnected far more often than 3rd party clients do, not because they're using reverse-engineered code (often the same code), but because they're doing too much traffic with the Im service :P |
| 17:49.16 | roh | Robot101 well.. jap. but that only helps pulling people to jabber, away from other stuff. |
| 17:49.32 | roh | besides that ive not seen a good multiproto-client yet |
| 17:50.23 | roh | but hey.. good to know that somebody cares for jabber. we really need a good client for that later |
| 17:50.59 | Robot101 | the jabber backend we wrote first, it's been around for 2 years |
| 17:51.25 | abraxa_ | CM: I do, too ;) |
| 17:51.26 | roh | Robot101 do you plan on jingle-support? |
| 17:52.04 | Robot101 | roh: we've had that since january |
| 17:52.07 | Robot101 | I think we were the first... |
| 17:52.53 | lalo | one of the pages I read today claims some telepathy thing is the first jingle client :-) so yeah |
| 17:54.24 | CM | abraxa_: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/Screenshot-3.png :) |
| 17:55.35 | abraxa_ | CM: Yes, that's ugly. ;) |
| 17:56.09 | abraxa_ | CM: Extract http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/openmoko-mediaplayer-r3208.tgz to /, please, and try again ;p |
| 17:56.11 | CM | I like that white head that's emiting sound.. |
| 17:56.27 | Stephmw | that's the telepathy indicator |
| 17:57.22 | abraxa_ | CM: Unfortunately that's the balance indicator for which I don't have use atm ;x |
| 17:59.02 | vinicius1987 | haha |
| 17:59.20 | CM | abraxa_: Oh, looks much nicer! How can I add a cover image? |
| 17:59.22 | *** join/#openmoko kousu (n=kousu@auth2-226.uwaterloo.ca) |
| 18:00.52 | abraxa_ | CM: Replace no_cover.png ;) |
| 18:01.20 | abraxa_ | That feature will come in a bit |
| 18:02.01 | CM | abraxa_: Hehe.. Ok |
| 18:03.14 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 18:05.51 | kousu | My GSM chip doesn't seem to listen to me. Can anyone help guide me through how to test it? |
| 18:06.10 | kousu | I'm in the uboot GSM passthrough prompt/terminal/thing |
| 18:10.18 | kousu | sometimes it listens, and sometimes it just gives me "ERROR", and sometimes it doesn't respond at all |
| 18:10.32 | kousu | Is there a command that resets the GSM modem? |
| 18:11.18 | abraxa_ | kousu: You might have an old u-boot which has transmission errors |
| 18:11.26 | abraxa_ | Do you have the debug board? |
| 18:11.42 | kousu | No, no debug board. |
| 18:12.05 | abraxa_ | In that case, flashing u-boot can inhibit a certain risk |
| 18:12.17 | kousu | I thought I had the most recent uboot. I got: uboot-gta01bv4-latest.bin |
| 18:12.27 | kousu | I flashed it yesterday |
| 18:12.32 | abraxa_ | Oh okay then |
| 18:12.39 | abraxa_ | I thought you never flashed it |
| 18:12.45 | kousu | It's not a snapshot uboot, are there newer versions? |
| 18:12.49 | abraxa_ | In that case the bug is fixed for you |
| 18:13.17 | kousu | Well, it still doesn't work for some reason. |
| 18:13.24 | abraxa_ | Where did you get it? |
| 18:13.38 | kousu | To log on to the GSM network I need to do "ATZ" then "AT+CPIN=xxxx" then "AT+CREG=1" right? |
| 18:13.58 | abraxa_ | No idea, sorry :) |
| 18:14.20 | kousu | I got it from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/, but I think it might be some funkiness with the GSM module itself or the provider (Rogers Wireless) |
| 18:14.26 | abraxa_ | For the time being I am staying as far away from gsmd as I can - it's way too buggy right now |
| 18:14.26 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve11 (n=fradeve@host231-79-dynamic.8-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:15.02 | *** part/#openmoko chetan (n=chetan@mail.limespot.co.in) |
| 18:15.05 | abraxa_ | kousu: Could it be that the stations around you operate at 850MHz only? |
| 18:15.25 | kousu | That's entirely possible. Is that a problem for the openmoko? |
| 18:15.30 | abraxa_ | Cause right now the GSM chipset is effectively tri-band, not being able to communicate on 850 |
| 18:15.34 | plebz | quit |
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| 18:16.08 | abraxa_ | Well, it *could* be an explanation |
| 18:16.18 | abraxa_ | Not necessarily the right one, however :) |
| 18:16.37 | *** join/#openmoko norro_ (n=norro@port-87-234-154-194.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 18:17.08 | kousu | Quickly googling: I think my area is triband |
| 18:17.38 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:17.39 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 18:19.22 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE6EC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:19.53 | anrp | no areas are triband |
| 18:20.03 | anrp | us/canada(/mexico?) are 850/1900 |
| 18:20.07 | anrp | rest of world is 900/1800 |
| 18:20.27 | anrp | well, i think that no areas are triband |
| 18:20.37 | anrp | there may be a select few in maybe upper class airports and such |
| 18:20.45 | buz | oh neat n800 with qwerty http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html |
| 18:21.07 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:21.13 | anrp | in the us/canada, 900 is ISM |
| 18:21.20 | anrp | most of the rest of the world allocated it for gsm |
| 18:21.21 | buz | and gps |
| 18:21.24 | kousu | anrp: oooh, okay. that's good to know. |
| 18:21.25 | anrp | same with 850, vice versa |
| 18:21.35 | kousu | Well, I'm in Canada |
| 18:21.39 | kousu | so it *should* work right? |
| 18:21.42 | anrp | should |
| 18:21.46 | kousu | I've seen it working in Canada. |
| 18:21.47 | anrp | except if its 850 |
| 18:21.53 | anrp | there seems to be some trouble somewhere with that |
| 18:21.58 | anrp | on the neo |
| 18:22.02 | anrp | not sure why |
| 18:22.12 | kousu | Is there any AT command that can query what signals are available? |
| 18:22.35 | abraxa_ | kousu: I'm sure there is but good luck finding it in the GSM specs ;) |
| 18:22.52 | CM | abraxa_: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/462de666bcb447faebfd10f591cc3e9e.png :D |
| 18:23.24 | abraxa_ | haha CM... and why does your progress bar look so odd... |
| 18:23.42 | abraxa_ | Ugh, I know why |
| 18:23.50 | CM | abraxa_: Don't know. It just grows. Maybe because it's sucking 90%+ cpu? |
| 18:24.31 | abraxa_ | CM: GTK doesn't apply the theme to the progress bar as it *should* |
| 18:24.36 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@host170-151-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:25.08 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3209 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: make GTA02 pcf50633 changes compile again |
| 18:26.36 | CM | abraxa_: Nice work on the player :) |
| 18:26.54 | buz | oh things are getting interesting "Steve Jobs today announced that Apple is working on a software development kit (SDK) for the iPhone and iPod touch so that third-party developers can build native applications for the devices." (ars) |
| 18:27.16 | abraxa_ | Thanks - and don't be sparse with tips for improvement. I do want to make it great ;) |
| 18:27.20 | CM | abraxa_: Btw, the "File added successfully" dialog you get after every file you add isn't that necessary. Or? And I guess reordering the playlist is on the works? |
| 18:27.41 | CM | Damn, time to go to a birthday party.. |
| 18:27.55 | buz | the difference between volume slider and position slider is not very apparent |
| 18:31.28 | abraxa_ | buz: Yup, that's why both are gone :) |
| 18:31.32 | abraxa_ | And have fun, CM |
| 18:31.44 | buz | must have been looking at the wrong screenie the |
| 18:31.45 | buz | n |
| 18:32.01 | buz | i would love to have a player where you can search alphabetically |
| 18:32.49 | *** join/#openmoko Preben_u (n=plebz@209.62-50-178.enivest.net) |
| 18:32.55 | *** join/#openmoko holymoly (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 18:32.57 | buz | which a sizeable playlist, scrolling is just too painful |
| 18:33.00 | abraxa_ | As in... clicking one of A..Z and getting a list of all tracks starting with that? |
| 18:33.10 | *** join/#openmoko edu (n=chatzill@insw.us) |
| 18:34.12 | buz | that and maybe enter a substring and show all tracks containing that substring |
| 18:34.20 | buz | same for band names |
| 18:34.28 | buz | (think amarok's search capability) |
| 18:36.19 | abraxa_ | Ah okay |
| 18:36.42 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=nosyjoe@ppp-82-135-86-41.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:36.55 | abraxa_ | Amarok sure seems to be the competitor to beat ;p |
| 18:38.22 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 18:42.07 | ScaredyCat | fluffy spider .. cool name for a company.... |
| 18:42.09 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 18:42.55 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
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| 18:50.53 | gamin | building openmoko-browser results in an error because "check" (check.sf.net) is not found. commenting the corresponding line out builds w/o error. |
| 18:51.20 | gamin | line #37 in configure.aaac that is |
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| 18:53.33 | torpor | yo |
| 18:55.38 | CoreDump | roh: thanks ;) |
| 18:56.45 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 18:56.56 | torpor | yo |
| 18:56.56 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 18:59.37 | *** join/#openmoko edu__ (n=chatzill@r190-64-146-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 19:00.05 | buz | abraxa_: if you come up with mobile amarok, that may well be openmoko's killer app |
| 19:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@port0.gesell.servers.medium.net) |
| 19:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko mmooo (n=mmooo@dsl-245-189-22.telkomadsl.co.za) |
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| 19:15.03 | SpeedEvil | Evil. |
| 19:15.21 | SpeedEvil | '3' in the UK were offering - through dealers - cashback if you buy a phone. |
| 19:15.59 | SpeedEvil | Their model - they said to the companies providing the service was to make it so difficult to claim that only 40% would claim. |
| 19:16.11 | Kliment | can I hear...24 month contract |
| 19:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko x42_ (n=x42@dslb-088-076-060-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 19:22.09 | ScaredyCat | the question is, why bother... |
| 19:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko edu__ (n=chatzill@r190-64-143-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 19:32.25 | *** join/#openmoko olle_ (n=olle@81-231-71-96-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:39.21 | olle_ | hi |
| 19:40.03 | olle_ | is it true that is possible to change the software integrated in the neo1073, and that it is (mostly) free software? |
| 19:40.11 | olle_ | i would love that |
| 19:42.05 | Magon | truly true |
| 19:42.36 | ljp | yes, its so free, you can entirely relace it with Qtopia, which is also free |
| 19:42.42 | ljp | replace |
| 19:42.43 | Magon | :-) |
| 19:42.49 | ckuethe | that is of course the point of the whole exercise |
| 19:42.56 | ckuethe | eliminating lock-in |
| 19:43.25 | ljp | actually, the Neo doesn't some with _any_ operating system. |
| 19:43.29 | olle_ | me wants, me wants, :D |
| 19:45.51 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 19:46.12 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 19:46.38 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z46c2.z.pppool.de) |
| 19:48.45 | vinicius1987 | oh yea... I think everybody in this chat too |
| 19:49.12 | vinicius1987 | ; D |
| 19:51.55 | don-o | fresh mokomakefile build died with: "svn: Can't open 'openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/data/.svn/tmp/icons.tmp.tmp': Operation not permitted". it might be a local smb mount problem but everything else has worked to this point. |
| 19:58.06 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@adsl-76-208-209-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:05.25 | vinicius1987 | I'm downloading files from openmoko svn right now |
| 20:05.47 | vinicius1987 | so it's not the server for sure |
| 20:06.09 | roh | don-o well.. building on nfs or smb is really not recommended |
| 20:06.46 | enjahova | does this usually take a while: |
| 20:06.48 | enjahova | ( cd images && ../openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/download.sh ) |
| 20:06.48 | enjahova | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:07.13 | roh | ww hey.. yeah.. i will come by soon |
| 20:08.12 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 20:09.11 | *** join/#openmoko olle_ (n=olle@81-231-71-96-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:11.27 | *** part/#openmoko olle_ (n=olle@81-231-71-96-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:14.16 | Stephmw | hmmmm, http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html |
| 20:14.16 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum_ (n=Q@71-215-217-29.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 20:14.17 | Stephmw | they finally realised onboard GPS was key |
| 20:17.52 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.96.206) |
| 20:17.56 | enjahova | is download.sh supposed to take a while with no output? |
| 20:18.20 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK[Away] (n=martin@0110ds1-ro.1.fullrate.dk) |
| 20:19.39 | *** join/#openmoko rugek (n=rugek@dirtyhack.net) |
| 20:23.27 | don-o | enjahova: i was going to look at my output and check for you but my backscroll doesnt go back that far :( |
| 20:23.35 | enjahova | =\ |
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| 20:23.44 | don-o | enjahova: my feeling is no, that should be quick or show more output |
| 20:23.58 | enjahova | its just sitting there and my process manager shows sh sleeping |
| 20:24.03 | enjahova | nothing is using cpu really =\ |
| 20:24.25 | don-o | enjahova: sounds like a network problem |
| 20:24.52 | enjahova | don-o: hmmm any idea what kind? it was just downloading the svn just fine |
| 20:26.23 | don-o | enjahova: nope. dns maybe. or the problem could be on the other end. are you using mokomakefile? |
| 20:27.11 | enjahova | don-o i am using mokomakefile |
| 20:27.55 | enjahova | i'm actually doing automatic emulation in ubuntu |
| 20:28.00 | enjahova | so i make qemu |
| 20:28.40 | enjahova | everything was going fine and it just stuck at download.sh |
| 20:29.05 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-198-103.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 20:34.40 | enjahova | hmm now it cant connect to buildhost.openmoko.org |
| 20:35.13 | enjahova | :( |
| 20:36.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 948 has been created by jptmoore(AT)gmail.com |
| 20:36.02 | cdbot2 | * * Keyboard dissappears when text field has visibility turned off |
| 20:36.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=948 |
| 20:36.49 | pvanhoof | somebody here aware of how the GPRS chip of the phone works? mickey|packing perhaps? |
| 20:36.57 | pvanhoof | I have some technical questions |
| 20:37.06 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-86-41.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:37.41 | enjahova | yay its back! |
| 20:38.17 | mjr | ask and maybe someone knows |
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| 20:43.33 | ScaredyCat | CM: midori will be back in again shortly |
| 20:46.09 | CM | ScaredyCat: I'll try it right away :) |
| 20:46.28 | *** join/#openmoko mrface (i=bradpitc@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org) |
| 20:46.37 | PBeck | how can i use a normal image from others to run it in qemu? |
| 20:46.41 | ScaredyCat | you'll need to wait about 20 mins, just building final packeges and uploading |
| 20:47.58 | CM | ScaredyCat: I have your feed as the default |
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| 21:12.37 | mrface | what happened to buildhost? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/ |
| 21:12.45 | mrface | there is nothing there |
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| 21:19.27 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 21:19.35 | *** part/#openmoko arocius (i=arocius@gateway/tor/x-bd7d6794d0a7dd0e) |
| 21:20.00 | Ghiottone | it seems that openmoko-tasks2 doesn't build and loops in configure. anyone? |
| 21:20.55 | abraxa_ | Ghiottone: Did you have a look at the logs in build/tmp/work/foo? |
| 21:22.43 | Ghiottone | yes. it keeps doing configure |
| 21:22.45 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.222.194) |
| 21:24.03 | abraxa_ | Does configure finish successfully then? |
| 21:24.16 | Ghiottone | it seems so |
| 21:24.19 | Ghiottone | it creates makefiles |
| 21:24.29 | Ghiottone | I'm now trying again with a clean build |
| 21:24.33 | abraxa_ | ah |
| 21:24.46 | abraxa_ | Well, it would be certain if you'd check the logs ;0 |
| 21:25.13 | Ghiottone | I see in the logs that it creates the makefles |
| 21:25.28 | abraxa_ | Ah okay |
| 21:25.31 | Ghiottone | then it exits the trunk dir and reenters it to do configure once again |
| 21:25.52 | abraxa_ | Sounds like the stamp file isn't created after the run |
| 21:25.56 | Ghiottone | I am experiencing a clock skew, maybe it is related to this |
| 21:26.04 | abraxa_ | Maybe configure exists non-zero for some reason |
| 21:26.18 | abraxa_ | exits* |
| 21:27.42 | Ghiottone | could it be that the makefiles redoes the target as its timestamp is in the future |
| 21:28.31 | abraxa_ | Hmm maybe... though configure isn't timestamp-aware like make |
| 21:28.54 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
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| 21:30.11 | ScaredyCat | CM: done |
| 21:30.49 | Ghiottone | abraxa_ no luck with a clean rebuild |
| 21:31.12 | abraxa_ | Darn |
| 21:40.17 | *** join/#openmoko XVirus (n=GoD@82.201.222.194) |
| 21:44.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03abraxa * r3210 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fix the GtkProgressBar theming |
| 21:44.24 | mickey|packing | i can feel your pain. the progress bar is _really_ tough to get right |
| 21:44.56 | abraxa_ | ...especially because I can't override settings that were set by the OpenMoko theme |
| 21:45.02 | abraxa_ | I can only *change* them |
| 21:45.22 | abraxa_ | Instead of not making them apply, I mean |
| 21:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-23-149.44-151.net24.it) |
| 21:52.21 | mickey|packing | the best thing is that if you look around the widgets, you find that there's a totally arbitrary split between object properties and theme properties |
| 21:52.38 | pvanhoof | mickey|packing, I have some questions about the gprs chip, who should I ask? |
| 21:53.00 | guaqua | pvanhoof: just ask |
| 21:53.01 | mickey|packing | try asking on openmoko-devel |
| 21:53.01 | pvanhoof | Like, how can I save battery, yet keep sockets open :) |
| 21:53.05 | guaqua | someone might answer here |
| 21:53.07 | mickey|packing | it's a TI Calypso |
| 21:53.12 | mickey|packing | standard AT command set |
| 21:53.15 | mickey|packing | that's about everything I know |
| 21:53.37 | pvanhoof | ok, atm I'm implementing QRESYNC, but later this evening I'll just ask guaqua :) |
| 21:53.40 | ScaredyCat | atz |
| 21:53.44 | ScaredyCat | OK |
| 21:53.49 | guaqua | don't ask me |
| 21:53.57 | guaqua | you're better off with reading the specs |
| 21:54.11 | guaqua | but someone else might pick the questions if you just ask them |
| 21:54.13 | anrp | gprs is low power ish |
| 21:54.20 | anrp | its not like a phone call, since it's packet oriented |
| 21:54.40 | anrp | theres a bit of extra radio noise keeping the connection open but as long as you don't send stuff/receive stuff over it it won't hurt that much |
| 21:54.42 | Writchie | pvanhoof: there is provision to put the multiplexor in low power state |
| 21:54.59 | Writchie | then the link itself can be shutdown and resume on wake-up |
| 21:55.04 | pvanhoof | Writchie, okay, are you here in a few hours? |
| 21:55.14 | pvanhoof | right, I'll need to know about the details of that |
| 21:55.15 | Writchie | should be |
| 21:55.28 | Writchie | i can't be sure that all of it works per the spec |
| 21:55.31 | pvanhoof | for making IMAP IDLE not consume your entire battery after 5 hours |
| 21:55.57 | Writchie | in the real world we need to be operating with the mux - not like done with the current gsmd |
| 21:56.01 | pvanhoof | Most imap servers are fine with you not doing anything on the socket for 20 minutes |
| 21:56.24 | pvanhoof | so I think we can make standard IMAP IDLE on GPRS just fine for your battery |
| 21:56.40 | Writchie | the ti: will handle it all with relativelyl low power, waking up the SoC only when a packet is available |
| 21:56.58 | Writchie | remember its IP so TCP/IP is at higher layer |
| 21:57.05 | Writchie | TCP keep alive |
| 21:57.08 | pvanhoof | aha, ok. so it's something I don't need to care about a lot |
| 21:57.18 | pvanhoof | just don't make the IMAP server reply for a bunch of time |
| 21:57.24 | Writchie | as long as TI behaves as expected. |
| 21:57.44 | pvanhoof | yes, well .. else openmoko's hw guys should make it behave like that! :D |
| 21:58.03 | pvanhoof | Well the other option is to receive notifications over SMS messages and things like that |
| 21:58.08 | Writchie | it looks promising at the moment for firmware upgrade if necessary |
| 21:58.18 | Writchie | same wakeup occurs with SMS |
| 21:58.19 | pvanhoof | but all that implies changes to the IMAP server, getting the GSM network provider to make changes to their network, etc etc |
| 21:58.40 | Writchie | or with unsolicited messages if they are not handled like they should be |
| 21:58.51 | Writchie | suspend should shut down unsolicited responses. |
| 21:58.58 | pvanhoof | Yes, most imap servers, when in IDLE, pack events together |
| 21:59.04 | Writchie | so only SMS and gprs packets wake us up. |
| 21:59.05 | pvanhoof | so that they fit in one TCP/IP packet |
| 21:59.21 | Writchie | or incoming calls |
| 21:59.31 | Writchie | not signal strenth changes |
| 21:59.54 | pvanhoof | that's good, means normal IDLE and NOTIFY wont consume the battery |
| 22:00.00 | pvanhoof | well, not much |
| 22:00.15 | Writchie | not much - suspend resume should be economical |
| 22:00.22 | Writchie | even if wakeup one a minute or so |
| 22:00.26 | pvanhoof | but it's something to carefully test |
| 22:00.45 | pvanhoof | else when people will configure an email account, their battery could drain quickly :) |
| 22:00.48 | Writchie | need kernel to stabilize which should be a matter of days |
| 22:01.53 | Writchie | moko days that is |
| 22:02.12 | pvanhoof | :) |
| 22:02.22 | pvanhoof | moko days = more than normal days, or less? Guessing more |
| 22:02.38 | Writchie | moko day is something more than one day |
| 22:03.14 | Writchie | kind of like manana |
| 22:03.23 | Writchie | doesn't meant yesterday |
| 22:03.28 | Writchie | just not today ;) |
| 22:03.33 | guaqua | :) |
| 22:03.37 | pvanhoof | :) |
| 22:03.42 | Writchie | i meant tommorrow |
| 22:03.46 | *** join/#openmoko kousu (n=kousu@76-10-140-102.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:04.18 | pvanhoof | Well, if necessary I can get openmoko in touch with the people at Isode, so that the IMAP server and GPRS e-mail clients are perfectly aligned for this |
| 22:04.30 | pvanhoof | but to make it some sort of IMAP standard, that's harder |
| 22:05.21 | pvanhoof | but I'll raise the issue, because maybe we can make NOTIFY very suitable for this, and get push-email without the Blackberry patents |
| 22:05.23 | Writchie | you should be able to hold up a TCP connection without much of a problem |
| 22:06.01 | Writchie | lot's of ways to skin the cat |
| 22:06.08 | pvanhoof | Next month I'll be in Prague for a meeting on Lemonade, so if there are details I need to know how gprs chips work |
| 22:06.12 | pvanhoof | let me know before that date :) |
| 22:06.36 | Writchie | gprs works fine now. |
| 22:06.53 | Writchie | just need to deal with the PM issues. |
| 22:07.30 | Writchie | there can also be problems after you drop out of GPRS coverage |
| 22:07.32 | pvanhoof | You are working on GPRS for openmoko Writchie ? |
| 22:07.35 | *** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 22:07.42 | SpeedEvil | GPRS is mostly done |
| 22:07.47 | SpeedEvil | It works |
| 22:08.02 | Writchie | PPP pretty much does it all |
| 22:08.09 | SpeedEvil | it just needs the GSMd changes to come through so that you can recieve a call when on gprs |
| 22:08.15 | SpeedEvil | (and interrupt the session/) |
| 22:08.18 | Writchie | its the mux and mux routing bit. |
| 22:08.26 | pvanhoof | GPRS and a call don't go together? |
| 22:08.36 | Writchie | not in Class B |
| 22:08.45 | pvanhoof | In that case, it's important for me to close the connection with the IMAP server in a clean way |
| 22:09.06 | pvanhoof | because if the call takes longer than 20 minutes, the IMAP server would or could disconnect the E-mail client |
| 22:09.07 | Writchie | the GPRS will suspend during the call |
| 22:09.24 | pvanhoof | right, I'll need to know when a call is about to start and when it finishes then |
| 22:09.47 | pvanhoof | so that I can do a clean disconnect , and a reconnect and a check for new messages (that might have been received during the call) |
| 22:09.47 | Writchie | pvanhoof: you'll need to check and reconnect if necessary after call completion |
| 22:09.53 | guaqua | imap client daemon and dbus interface? :> |
| 22:10.23 | guaqua | incoming call emits a signal for the imap to disconnect and vice versa |
| 22:10.26 | pvanhoof | what is used for network state changes? Something that looks like NetworkManager? |
| 22:10.35 | guaqua | or then just dump the connection and reconnect after the phonecall |
| 22:10.36 | pvanhoof | guaqua, right |
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| 22:10.46 | guaqua | that's just one idea |
| 22:11.03 | pvanhoof | I'll need to adapt tinymail for this, but sounds like something important that I haven't thought about yet |
| 22:11.09 | guaqua | i don't know if there's a framework for network state changes |
| 22:11.20 | pvanhoof | right now tinymail only knows about "connected" and "disconnected" network |
| 22:11.29 | pvanhoof | but this is a suspended :) |
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| 22:11.46 | anrp | seems like it'd be easier to treat it as disconnected |
| 22:11.53 | anrp | just reconnect when call finishesa |
| 22:11.53 | pvanhoof | aha, something like this is planned? Sounds useful for certain applications to know about these state changes |
| 22:12.17 | pvanhoof | anrp, true, but sometimes I can do a better saving of the state |
| 22:12.31 | Writchie | gprs suspend is not really like a disconnect |
| 22:12.36 | pvanhoof | like, I can know that a reconnect will soon happen, and save a few roundtrips that way |
| 22:12.40 | Writchie | until you try to send something from either end |
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| 22:13.05 | Writchie | in which case one end will drop the tcp connection |
| 22:13.10 | Writchie | and the other won't know it |
| 22:13.13 | pvanhoof | Which is not unimportant when you're on gprs :), where roundtrip latency can take up to 100ms |
| 22:13.24 | anrp | up to |
| 22:13.25 | anrp | ?? |
| 22:13.29 | anrp | its way more than that |
| 22:13.30 | Writchie | the mobile end, however, can follow state |
| 22:13.31 | pvanhoof | yes or more |
| 22:13.34 | nibbler | 100ms would be terrific |
| 22:13.41 | nibbler | it's rather 1000ms and more |
| 22:13.44 | pvanhoof | I think I meant 50000ms :) |
| 22:13.46 | Writchie | remote end is not aware of GPRS suspend |
| 22:13.47 | anrp | good is like 600ms ~_~ |
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| 22:13.58 | nibbler | the problem with gprs is rather jitter |
| 22:14.01 | pvanhoof | Right, I usually set my NETEM to 1400ms |
| 22:14.22 | nibbler | Writchie: yup, that kinda sucks |
| 22:14.46 | pvanhoof | Writchie, jup and if we're suspended for longer than 20 minutes , the IMAP server who didn't get a NOOP will disconnect |
| 22:14.46 | Writchie | i like UDP better |
| 22:14.51 | pvanhoof | and that's something to avoid |
| 22:15.20 | pvanhoof | because it might have been trying to send precious IDLE changes that we now don't know about :) |
| 22:15.23 | Writchie | if you have the choice it probably better to use UDP and use TCP/IP only for transfers |
| 22:16.14 | pvanhoof | IMAP is not UDP, regretfully |
| 22:16.55 | mickey|packing | cu from .tw |
| 22:17.05 | pvanhoof | have a good flight mickey|away |
| 22:17.08 | mickey|away | thanks |
| 22:18.09 | pvanhoof | Anyway, knowing about network state-changes, like suspend (because there's an incoming call), disconnected from the GPRS access point, connected, etc |
| 22:18.25 | pvanhoof | and also the quality of the network, and the price per bandwidth unit :) |
| 22:18.36 | pvanhoof | because on wifi, I can perhaps get some more data more quickly |
| 22:18.53 | Writchie | yes |
| 22:18.58 | pvanhoof | whereas on gprs, I might want to be modest about what I request, as it's going to cost money to the user |
| 22:19.02 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@196.205.192.230) |
| 22:19.03 | Writchie | need a cost of current connection state |
| 22:19.19 | pvanhoof | uhu, not unimportant |
| 22:19.29 | pvanhoof | I can make a few decisions based on this info |
| 22:19.30 | Writchie | critical for some use cases |
| 22:20.20 | pvanhoof | Like: let's not try to get the user to receive his POP e-mails right now |
| 22:20.28 | Writchie | if the IMAP end can recognize a dangling TCP conncection and terminate it you may have a solution |
| 22:20.34 | pvanhoof | or warn him about the size of what will be received, vs. the cost |
| 22:20.53 | Writchie | better for mobile to pull |
| 22:21.10 | Writchie | isn't that why you're using IMAP |
| 22:21.16 | pvanhoof | Depends, push can give me with less bandwidth, more info |
| 22:21.57 | pvanhoof | because it gives changes since the last time it notified me |
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| 22:22.15 | pvanhoof | whereas most pull protocol commands give you all the info every time |
| 22:22.20 | Writchie | you will need to test connection after voice call |
| 22:22.45 | Writchie | if connection went away, then you will need to re-establish |
| 22:22.54 | pvanhoof | uhu |
| 22:23.12 | pvanhoof | Well, I think we'll might consider having a networkmanager-like :) |
| 22:23.13 | Writchie | tcp connection that is |
| 22:23.18 | pvanhoof | might have to, I mean |
| 22:23.55 | pvanhoof | It's not going to be saner to let the E-mail client poke the processes of for example the thing that handles the call, the voice call, etc |
| 22:24.01 | Writchie | it will take some time to get the whole MT (Mobile Termination) layer rational and fully featured. |
| 22:24.54 | pvanhoof | at GMAE I proposed to discuss a dbus protocol spec for things like network manager next time btw |
| 22:25.07 | Writchie | gprs != WIFI and mobile internet is a myth without 3G |
| 22:25.23 | pvanhoof | to avoid that soon we'll have 15 different ways to know about the state on mobiles :) |
| 22:26.03 | Writchie | i'm actually working a d-bus MT layer definition and implementation from scratch |
| 22:26.12 | Writchie | for GSM/UMTS |
| 22:26.13 | pvanhoof | oh, and we want to compete with blackberry. so all this should integrate perfectly imo :) |
| 22:26.54 | Writchie | next generation has to move to USB to the modem to handle the data rate |
| 22:27.18 | Writchie | its kinda like BT HCI over USB or serial |
| 22:27.24 | Writchie | serial is now out of gas |
| 22:27.25 | anrp | serial can be clocked pretty fast you know |
| 22:27.46 | anrp | also, usb is serial |
| 22:27.55 | Writchie | anrp: not in most SoC - usually at most one high speed IRDA oriented |
| 22:28.01 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@82.201.222.190) |
| 22:28.03 | anrp | serial uart D: |
| 22:28.10 | anrp | yeah those usually go up to a couple mbaud |
| 22:28.37 | Writchie | and the buffers are too small and the dma often sucks or is completely broken |
| 22:29.09 | Writchie | USB solves a lot |
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| 22:39.51 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3211 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta01-backlight.patch gta01-vibrator.patch s3c2410-pwm.patch): Restructure gta01 backlight and vibrator for the new s3c2410-pwm. |
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| 23:28.34 | *** join/#openmoko fugazy (n=chatzill@AVelizy-152-1-87-181.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:31.28 | fugazy | hello there, i just got a GTA01 last week and i have some troubles building the whole system with mokomakefile. |
| 23:31.41 | cesarb | fugazy: who hasn't? |
| 23:31.53 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 23:32.14 | fugazy | good to hear then, but i guess some have managed to go to the end |
| 23:33.50 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 23:34.13 | fugazy | i am in the task do_rootfs but it breaks wit Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-ui: xserver-kdrive-common |
| 23:35.30 | fugazy | i tried to rebuild xserver-kdrive-common a few times and it builds ok except for some QA error |
| 23:35.48 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (i=mad@woota.net) |
| 23:35.53 | fugazy | rings a bell to someone ? |
| 23:41.28 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (i=mad@woota.net) |
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| 23:57.02 | ColdFyre | is there a status location for the overall progress of openmoko? |
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