| 00:00.19 | raster | boo |
| 00:00.39 | raster | no wii cloning then |
| 00:00.43 | SpeedEvil | The error of integration after 1s is something like 60 degrees after 1 second. |
| 00:01.01 | SpeedEvil | in the phone on its back on a table case |
| 00:01.46 | SpeedEvil | Or it can measure accelleration when swung as a baseball bat or a tennis racket. |
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| 00:01.55 | SpeedEvil | And measure the swing speed quite well. |
| 00:02.01 | SpeedEvil | (may void warranty) |
| 00:02.06 | cb22 | hehe |
| 00:02.38 | SpeedEvil | I need to rework that page with the confirmed new A/Ds. |
| 00:02.52 | SpeedEvil | Most of it assumes the much better accel in the Wii. |
| 00:03.15 | SpeedEvil | (which are best-of-breed - and still suck.) |
| 00:03.51 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately there are no commercial semiconductors capable of any sort of inertial guidance that would be very useful to phone users yet. |
| 00:04.07 | cb22 | so we pretty much cant detect yaw? |
| 00:04.17 | SpeedEvil | You can detect which way down is. |
| 00:04.51 | SpeedEvil | And you can make assumptions of if the phone orientation is changing, or if it's due to exxternal accelerations. |
| 00:05.37 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunatley, due to the very limited baseline - 10cm or so max - the differential accelerations caused by other twisting motions of the phone are simply usually too small to pick out of the noise. |
| 00:06.11 | SpeedEvil | The comparatively insensitive accel doesn't help this of course. But in any case many interesting things are marginal even with the best possible chips. |
| 00:06.41 | SpeedEvil | There are gyro chips which would work well - but they are $20 per, not $2 per as accels are. |
| 00:07.44 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, may i ask, what do you do? you seem to know so much about everything! |
| 00:07.55 | ljp | googles |
| 00:08.13 | SpeedEvil | I am unfortunately unemployed at the moment due to variable health - mostly bad. |
| 00:08.53 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: ouch. that explains how you're always here, however |
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| 00:09.01 | SpeedEvil | I was made to go to school one day with glandular fever at age 12, and was basically in bed for the next 3 years with post-viral fatigue syndrome. |
| 00:09.11 | cb22 | big ouch :( |
| 00:09.38 | SpeedEvil | I got slightly better after that - but I run into problems where I relapse for months and have _no_ energy or motivation. |
| 00:11.32 | SpeedEvil | Trying to learn stuff and start to get money coming in through various net-enterprises. |
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| 00:16.29 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: is that related to an immunity response, I remember listening to a CSIRO podcast regarding research into the field were ones immunity system overreacts causing people to be lethargic and tired |
| 00:17.58 | linux_galore | apparently they were testing some new treatments with some success (thus the podcast) |
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| 00:19.00 | SpeedEvil | Unfortnately, there is no good research - I've been following the field. |
| 00:19.17 | SpeedEvil | And have a doctor who also does. |
| 00:19.30 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: maybe not in the USA but it is a well known problem here in Australia |
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| 00:21.08 | SpeedEvil | It's a well known problem here too. |
| 00:21.23 | SpeedEvil | As to good research I was meaning peer reviewed double blind trials. |
| 00:21.48 | SpeedEvil | There is _way_ too much quackery in the field unfortunately. |
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| 01:06.29 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: CSIRO is the government research agency over here, they are far from quacks, give you an example they patented Wifi way back in the early 90's |
| 01:08.07 | doc|home | how nice of them |
| 01:08.30 | doc|home | so now, every time you want to buy a wifi device in oz, you have to give them money? |
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| 01:10.53 | linux_galore | doc|home: no every time a company makes a wifi chipset they have to pay a license. Dont forget American companies and Universities do exactly the same |
| 01:11.06 | linux_galore | license fee* |
| 01:11.30 | doc|home | linux_galore: yeah, but you end up paying for that as it'll be built into the cost of the device |
| 01:11.34 | doc|home | in short, it's just another tax |
| 01:11.58 | linux_galore | doc|home: were talking a few cents per chipset |
| 01:12.15 | doc|home | linux_galore: that doesn't mean it's not a tax |
| 01:12.42 | doc|home | if it was a company that was doing it, they'd be called "patent trolls" |
| 01:12.54 | linux_galore | doc|home: its not a tax either, its a license fee, all technology has some IP involved that has to be paid for |
| 01:13.10 | doc|home | properly open technology doesn't |
| 01:13.29 | linux_galore | doc|home: CSIRO invented WiFi, were not talking prior art of any kind |
| 01:13.36 | doc|home | and if it's a licence fee, it's just a tax under a different name |
| 01:14.09 | doc|home | given that it's the government |
| 01:14.09 | doc|home | linux_galore: they designed and built the chipset? |
| 01:14.14 | doc|home | if they did, then that'd be something at least |
| 01:14.40 | linux_galore | doc|home: well the CSIRO also as part of their charter have to earn money or spin technologies off into commercial products, yep they have to earn money not just ask for hand outs |
| 01:15.26 | doc|home | to me, that reads like a handout. They don't actually make anything :/ |
| 01:15.36 | doc|home | (to do with wifi) |
| 01:16.07 | linux_galore | doc|home: yep, they recently created (about 8 years ago) a variant of WiFi that uses a very clever distributed wireless technology (no central router needed) and CISCO paid over 200 million for the tech, and yes they fabed chipsets for that too |
| 01:16.33 | doc|home | see, that's something :) still doesn't sound like the other thing was special |
| 01:17.10 | doc|home | I'd have thought ad-hoc would have been covered under obvious though |
| 01:17.54 | linux_galore | doc|home: imagine way back in the late 80's (when the project started) there was nothing, no high speed wireless digital data protcols or technology for PC's, CSIRO created everything from scratch |
| 01:17.59 | Writchie | string on a can is an ad-hoc network |
| 01:19.00 | doc|home | linux_galore: what did they create though? the chipset designs? |
| 01:19.08 | linux_galore | CSIRO would have been mad not to have patented what they spent years on creating |
| 01:19.39 | linux_galore | doc|home: yes they created the early precursors to wifi, eben the antenna's and the protocols |
| 01:19.45 | linux_galore | even* |
| 01:20.05 | doc|home | ok, that's different to patent trolls then |
| 01:20.34 | Writchie | bullshit patents are limited to patent trolls |
| 01:21.10 | doc|home | nah, anyone can get a bullshit patent, and patent trolls can also get what should otherwise be a reasonable patent (RIM vs whoever) |
| 01:21.14 | doc|home | :) |
| 01:22.10 | Writchie | s/are/arn't/ |
| 01:22.29 | doc|home | ah |
| 01:23.14 | Writchie | and wireless networking was is wide use in the 50's |
| 01:23.37 | linux_galore | doc|home: CSIRO do create products but they dont commercialise it they sell the technology with a preference to local companies, CSIRO sometimes spin off a full blown comercial company (as in the case of the CISCO deal) |
| 01:24.34 | linux_galore | Writchie: TCP/IP wirless networks are a pretty new thing |
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| 01:25.13 | Writchie | just another protocol |
| 01:25.24 | linux_galore | Writchie: trust me many companies are now screaming blue murder because there is shit all prior art |
| 01:25.38 | doc|home | linux_galore: but why are the government doing that and not private companies? |
| 01:26.27 | linux_galore | doc|home: the same happens in the USA, ie NASA and University based research funding, just here they have a single body that looks after it all |
| 01:27.13 | doc|home | wifi != space exploration :) |
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| 01:27.42 | linux_galore | doc|home: University based funding isnt just about feeding LSD to monkeys either |
| 01:27.52 | Writchie | nasa held patents on blood pressure readings and much other everyday stuff |
| 01:27.54 | doc|home | linux_galore: yes it is! (in the US) |
| 01:28.26 | Writchie | patents are just licenses to sue and be sued and provide work for attorneys |
| 01:29.06 | linux_galore | true, many Universities in the USA earn a fortune from licensing to commercial entities and the funding they got was mostly government |
| 01:30.14 | linux_galore | not uncommon for a US based drug research program in a University to get a 150 million dollar license payment for their research |
| 01:31.55 | linux_galore | this has also created a problem in the US were Universities dont talk to each other when it comes to cuting edge research so things are starting to stagnate |
| 01:33.33 | linux_galore | Patents and Universities are not a good mix really |
| 01:34.15 | linux_galore | some talk about Universities now not being liable to patents so they can do research in similar fields without having to worry about getting sued |
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| 01:55.42 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: if universities were excepted why not except all and just eliminate patents? |
| 01:56.03 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: they aren't terrible useful anymore to anyone except for gigantic corporations with a legion of lawyers |
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| 02:04.17 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: because government University funding has stagnated in the USA and $50 millions dollar payouts are hard to ignore |
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| 02:06.41 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: its actually easily fixed if all Universities have a cross licensing agreement (last i heard this is starting to happen) |
| 02:08.13 | linux_galore | or just change patent laws so they dont apply to Universities full stop (they dont apply to the government anyway) |
| 02:10.14 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: right but why should universities be special? |
| 02:13.51 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: lets put it this way, would you hand over a few million for research and some guy in China can knock of the product and sell it into the same market, of course not, so some sort of protecting is needed |
| 02:14.16 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: why? |
| 02:14.37 | u_l-lap | research is for the benefit of Man and not for Profit |
| 02:14.41 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: because research costs money, people want to pay their rent |
| 02:15.15 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: good will doesnt put food on your table |
| 02:15.20 | u_l-lap | it does for me |
| 02:15.33 | u_l-lap | you just have to adjust your expectations |
| 02:15.43 | u_l-lap | I can eat and pay rent and own a nice bicycle |
| 02:15.48 | u_l-lap | I can't afford a car or a ps3 |
| 02:15.55 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: yes but explain that to a guy putting millions on the line and he will tell you were to go |
| 02:16.06 | CVirus | LOL |
| 02:16.23 | linux_galore | he want a guarantee that he will get a return |
| 02:16.26 | CVirus | u_l-lap: good will won't buy you a Neo1973 |
| 02:16.28 | linux_galore | wants* |
| 02:16.37 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: luckily cs research requires ~$500 initial equipment investment and nothing more |
| 02:16.52 | u_l-lap | CVirus: writing custom free software will though |
| 02:17.04 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: well cs I dont thing should be patented for that reason |
| 02:17.07 | u_l-lap | CVirus: the money is sitting around waiting for a gta02 to materialize |
| 02:17.08 | linux_galore | think* |
| 02:17.59 | linux_galore | programming has a low front entry price were medical,hardware research has a high entry up front cost |
| 02:18.28 | u_l-lap | how could someone do medical research with profit as a motive! |
| 02:18.41 | u_l-lap | what kind of terrible person would want to profit and deny people medications and such? |
| 02:19.40 | mwester-laptop | The kind of terrible person who would wish to provide medications and care more than once. |
| 02:19.48 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: thats reality, technology can cost a fortune and take 15 years or more of no income |
| 02:20.21 | u_l-lap | ok so the economy is broken let us fix it |
| 02:20.32 | u_l-lap | instead of existing as a hacky workarounds |
| 02:20.43 | u_l-lap | -s |
| 02:21.19 | mwester-laptop | I can offer up a few years of my life, and give away the results, but only once. After that, since I'll have no income, I'll be one of the homeless people sleeping on cardboard box remnants on Lower Wacker drive in Chicago. |
| 02:21.34 | SpeedEvil | u_l-lap: 99% of medicines that emerge from the concept stage do not emerge as marketable products. |
| 02:21.45 | SpeedEvil | u_l-lap: the ones that do have to fund this 99% |
| 02:21.51 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: unfortunately any system you create even though looking perfect on paper humans will find some way of fsking up so you have this wacky hacked up method of dealing with things |
| 02:21.56 | u_l-lap | again that is the result of hte economy being broken |
| 02:21.58 | mwester-laptop | Or I can make someone pay a fair price, and then I can continue to contribute for the rest of my life. |
| 02:22.03 | mwester-laptop | What makes more sense? |
| 02:22.22 | u_l-lap | destroying capitalism |
| 02:22.33 | mwester-laptop | he! |
| 02:22.39 | u_l-lap | if you benefit the community with your research why should they not voluntarily support you? |
| 02:22.51 | mwester-laptop | because of human nature. |
| 02:22.56 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: wont happen, its human nature to expect a reward for their toil |
| 02:23.02 | u_l-lap | humans are fundamentally good and are corrupted by society |
| 02:23.08 | u_l-lap | I expect no reward for my work |
| 02:23.18 | u_l-lap | I do things for the sake of doing them |
| 02:23.21 | mwester-laptop | u_l-lap, dream on. Others have tried the perfect solution from countries to communes. |
| 02:23.24 | u_l-lap | most people I know do things for the sake of doing them |
| 02:23.31 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: so you never plays games huh |
| 02:23.35 | linux_galore | play* |
| 02:23.42 | u_l-lap | I occasionally play lbreakout |
| 02:23.50 | u_l-lap | when I have nothing else to do |
| 02:23.55 | mwester-laptop | u_l-lap, someone pays for your food and the roof over your head. |
| 02:24.00 | SpeedEvil | u_l-lap: so you are happy to beg for food? |
| 02:24.01 | u_l-lap | mwester-laptop: me |
| 02:24.16 | u_l-lap | it just happens that I can write code and people will give me money for it |
| 02:24.17 | linux_galore | games actually take advantage of human nature to compete and get rewarded when they succeed |
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| 02:24.27 | mwester-laptop | u_l-lap: and how do you do that, if you do not work, but instead give away your effort for free? |
| 02:24.42 | u_l-lap | mwester-laptop: I do that too |
| 02:24.52 | mwester-laptop | Why not all the time? |
| 02:25.02 | mwester-laptop | Why do you charge money for some of it? |
| 02:25.09 | u_l-lap | because people are willing to pay me to write custom software for them |
| 02:25.28 | u_l-lap | if I were more interested in the fields I would probably write that software for no money as well |
| 02:25.34 | mwester-laptop | And how does that differ from all those who work for money along with doing community service of some sort? |
| 02:25.41 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: just give them the software for free, if they like it they will pay you, all humans are nice arent they |
| 02:25.48 | linux_galore | heh |
| 02:26.05 | u_l-lap | it doesn't I was saying in a hypothetical unbroken economy you could do beneficial research and not need to care about profit as the community would voluntarily support you |
| 02:26.21 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: I am not naive |
| 02:26.52 | mwester-laptop | Read your history, many many others have also dreamt of such a society, and it hasn't survived thus far. |
| 02:27.04 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: they wouldnt, humans have an opinion so what you may see at being good for society as a whole others may for personal or religious grounds decide is wrong |
| 02:27.22 | u_l-lap | mwester-laptop: yes thanks to imperialistic europeans |
| 02:27.38 | u_l-lap | mwester-laptop: the most savage race of men upon the earth destroyed culture around the entire world |
| 02:28.06 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: society as a whole is much larger than a community |
| 02:28.16 | mwester-laptop | So as broken as it might be, I prefer to admit the truth about human nature, and build a system that works *with* that nature, and hope that it is possible to provide some form of social justice within that framework. |
| 02:28.19 | u_l-lap | note that I also don't believe in land ownership |
| 02:28.24 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: a large part of any society is populated by social sheep, you just need a few alpha leaders and they will walk into hell |
| 02:29.13 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: again the result of a broken society that demonizes independent thought |
| 02:29.40 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: although I can understand your point I also know humans by nature are corrupted animals |
| 02:30.09 | linux_galore | thus corrupt anything they touch, ideals dont last long |
| 02:30.18 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: we are by nature social creatures. We are weak on our own, and it is only because of our fundamentally cooperative nature that we survived the savannahs of africa. |
| 02:30.34 | u_l-lap | linux_galore: unfortunately sociopaths are difficult to combat |
| 02:30.53 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: no, we survived because we wipped out the competition for resources |
| 02:31.04 | u_l-lap | and how did that occur? |
| 02:31.09 | u_l-lap | have you seen a bear before? |
| 02:31.27 | u_l-lap | one almost ate me once I'm pretty sure if I were a lone primitive man I wouldn't survive very long |
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| 02:31.51 | mwester-laptop | u_l-lap: cooperation happened because everyone in the group saw that it was in their own self-interest to cooperate. As soon as the first member saw that they got more food by killing the others, war began. |
| 02:31.54 | linux_galore | u_l-lap: competition also includes fellow humans |
| 02:32.12 | u_l-lap | hello phil 101 |
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| 02:32.35 | u_l-lap | "there is no such thing as altruism self-interest motivations all!" |
| 02:32.47 | u_l-lap | s/motivations/motivates/ |
| 02:32.49 | linux_galore | humans will only group together if it serves thier "own" interests, when that fails you have wars and revolutions |
| 02:33.09 | u_l-lap | I can disprove your argument |
| 02:33.15 | u_l-lap | I don't care about my self-interest |
| 02:33.24 | u_l-lap | I am a human |
| 02:33.28 | mwester-laptop | u_l-lap: reality is rough. Philosophy is for those who can afford it. |
| 02:33.39 | mwester-laptop | I leave you to your daydream ;) |
| 02:33.42 | u_l-lap | mwester-laptop: or those who are above the care of poverty |
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| 02:37.33 | linux_galore | My personal view is the technology we so crave is also to some degree what destroys our freedoms and joys, when i went to Bali the people have nothing but some land and family but they are very happy and always smiling |
| 02:38.08 | u_l-lap | indeed |
| 02:38.26 | rwhitby | I'd be much happier without email. |
| 02:38.39 | ljp | thats cause they live by some awesome beaches |
| 02:38.56 | rwhitby | ljp: so you guys are going to move to Noosa? |
| 02:39.04 | linux_galore | yeah, the land in Bali is some of the best on the planet to grow food too |
| 02:39.05 | ljp | :) i wish |
| 02:39.42 | linux_galore | Noosa has been taken over by yuppies, its not a drop out/sea change place anymore |
| 02:39.50 | ljp | i woudl be happy with a modem that doesn't CME error 13 on +CIMI |
| 02:40.05 | ljp | when no sim is present |
| 02:40.13 | linux_galore | heh |
| 02:42.46 | linux_galore | how much for a GTA03, hmm $40 million huh, to you take Diners card |
| 02:43.47 | linux_galore | I saw a Nokia 95-8G (Black) on sale on ebay yesterday |
| 02:44.00 | linux_galore | up to 9K already |
| 02:44.15 | linux_galore | N95-8G |
| 02:45.04 | linux_galore | Nokia did the same with the E90 they sold a hand full of weeks before the release and gave the money to charity |
| 02:49.50 | roh | well SIM failure aka CME error 13 sounds valid if you want the IMSI which is on a sim, not on the modem |
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| 02:51.52 | ljp | roh: I woudl think CME error 10 would be more appropriate when there is no sim |
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| 02:55.12 | enjahova_ | so, is there a standard scripting language for openmoko? |
| 02:55.25 | enjahova_ | i just read some 9 month old mailing list thread that didn't seem to have a conclusion |
| 02:55.28 | Aria | Python, sh, ruby's been built for it too. |
| 02:55.52 | enjahova_ | built for it, but is one included by default? |
| 02:56.11 | Aria | I believe python is in the default build, but I haven't checked. And sh is there too |
| 02:56.34 | enjahova_ | so, if i want to write an app, can i do it completely in python? or python with c++ wrappings? |
| 02:57.26 | Aria | c++? Uh, I guess... |
| 02:57.27 | ljp | roh: error 13 would mean 'there is a sim, but it failed' |
| 02:57.33 | Aria | But sure, python, or C. |
| 02:58.19 | rwhitby | enjahova: the stated position is that there will be no interpreter by default in the root image (except sh of course) |
| 02:58.37 | enjahova_ | oh |
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| 02:59.20 | enjahova_ | rwhitby: so if i want to write an app able to run on any default OM phone, it better be in C? |
| 03:00.40 | Aria | Or make a handy way to make sure the runtime you want is installable. |
| 03:00.45 | rwhitby | if your app has the correct RDEPENDS, then it will pull in the interpreter it needs |
| 03:01.58 | enjahova_ | hmm, that could be considered a heavy imposition by some no? |
| 03:02.31 | enjahova_ | all on the account of me not wanting to deal only with C ^^ |
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| 03:03.56 | rwhitby | enjahova: correct |
| 03:04.06 | roh | ljp well.. i'm not sure what the standard says about this, but i would assume that both are valid answers, and you whould check for a valid sim beforehand yourself (atleast in a real-world-scenario) |
| 03:04.49 | roh | enjahova_ currently there is no movement in the coreteam to pick out one lang. |
| 03:05.05 | rwhitby | let the market decide :-) |
| 03:05.21 | enjahova_ | i see ^^ |
| 03:05.41 | enjahova_ | so i'll gamble on the market choosing python, and in the mean time brush up on C hehe |
| 03:05.42 | roh | especially because there is no real reason and the right language to solve a problem is problem dependend |
| 03:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko Jumb0 (n=Jimmy@c-76-22-221-126.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 03:06.15 | enjahova_ | true |
| 03:10.59 | linux_galore | if your learning a programming language dont do what everyone else is doing, pick a new language because they time you become a pro it will be in vogue |
| 03:14.01 | linux_galore | I would be tempted to learn C# or elang the latter due to all the new multicore stuff running around |
| 03:14.56 | Aria | Unless by the time you're good at it you're its only user. |
| 03:15.01 | Aria | C hasn't gone out of style yet. |
| 03:15.24 | linux_galore | Aria: no but its use is declining as a job |
| 03:16.11 | linux_galore | also every code monkey knows C so your not making yourself stand out |
| 03:16.44 | linux_galore | Im not saying dont learn C, just look beyond it |
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| 03:17.25 | enjahova_ | yeah, i like python for that... but i never truely learned C |
| 03:17.27 | Aria | Like KNOW C. |
| 03:19.38 | rwhitby | linux_galore: I hire C/C++ software engineers in preference to those who use Java or other languages where you are so far removed from the actual performance of your code on the bare metal. |
| 03:19.50 | roh | jap. actually good c coders are very rare... but the same is valid even for java.. there are just different good/useless crap ratios ;) |
| 03:20.26 | linux_galore | rwhitby: we look for good ASM people |
| 03:20.49 | enjahova_ | when will computers be good ASM programmers >< |
| 03:20.55 | linux_galore | rwhitby: allot of our stuff runs in 64K |
| 03:21.18 | roh | rwhitby well.. that depends a lot on the usecase. i even know somebody who was hired because he does lisp.. but hey.. that guy does 5 other langs also and could read every other language spec and start hacking |
| 03:21.43 | rwhitby | right - there are always exceptions that prove the rule. |
| 03:22.46 | linux_galore | I heard that really good ASM people in the USA is becoming very rare thus their wages are now pretty high |
| 03:23.12 | Aria | Hence the good advice being 'become a good programmer'. Forget the language war crap. |
| 03:23.44 | roh | linux_galore good coders are rare all the time, and that ratio is getting worse every day a university spits out another student who's only seen java and cannot even do that right |
| 03:24.10 | rwhitby | roh: amen |
| 03:24.28 | roh | ;) |
| 03:24.37 | linux_galore | roh: Im seeing VB people, were like, yeah but a hello world program in VB wont fit in the embedded asics we use |
| 03:25.04 | stefan_schmidt | roh: That's why some of the students working with c in their spare time. ;) |
| 03:25.17 | roh | hehe... people tend to ignore that 99% of the electronics we use do not even have an mmu or so ;) |
| 03:25.52 | anrp | asm D: |
| 03:26.02 | linux_galore | ubiquitous computing is and will become very big |
| 03:26.09 | anrp | i've done some atmel asm work.. wrote a bootloader for serial xmodem downloading ~_~ |
| 03:26.34 | roh | jap.. avr asm is actually very cool to teach people the concept of asm in generic i think |
| 03:26.45 | enjahova_ | so whats avr asm? |
| 03:26.49 | roh | seen some nice projects doing such stuff |
| 03:26.53 | anrp | atmel avr = 8 bit micro |
| 03:27.02 | anrp | but a decent asm set and large # of regs |
| 03:27.06 | anrp | so its nice to work with |
| 03:27.18 | linux_galore | I like how people keep mentioning that Windows runs on most PC's, I love telling them that Windows runs on less than 2% of cpu's sold |
| 03:27.19 | enjahova_ | so i can wikipedia atmel avr? |
| 03:27.37 | anrp | D:? i guess |
| 03:28.24 | linux_galore | yeah, Moto still have dev kits for people wanting to learn ASM |
| 03:28.35 | enjahova_ | anrp, i mean where can i read more about it |
| 03:28.41 | anrp | oh |
| 03:28.51 | anrp | well the almighty wiki has an overview |
| 03:29.07 | anrp | under Atmel_AVR |
| 03:29.10 | roh | like a very ciscy risc which is much more risc by concept than old sh*t like m86k or 8052 |
| 03:29.17 | linux_galore | you get the software a jig for the cpu's and eeproms etc with cables the whole deal from Moto |
| 03:30.06 | linux_galore | very cheap too |
| 03:30.30 | enjahova_ | thanks |
| 03:30.40 | linux_galore | I have noticed there are Linux ASM hardware dev kits running around now too |
| 03:32.14 | roh | ljp well.. my copy of 07.07 does not specify if CME error 10 or 13 is the right one. just that it either gives you the IMSI youre asking for or an error |
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| 03:41.24 | ljp | roh: well it only makes sense that no sim would return error 10 for that |
| 03:42.12 | roh | ljp not really. if there is no check that there is actually a sim.... |
| 03:42.43 | ljp | thats what error 10 is for |
| 03:42.44 | roh | think in 'what did the codemonkey at ti actually have as spec.... |
| 03:43.10 | roh | and the spec does say nothing about checking if there is a sim and give 10 instead of 13 |
| 03:44.31 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 03:44.56 | roh | morning Hopscotch |
| 03:46.04 | Aria | Uh,means you didn't insert a sim? |
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| 03:56.55 | ljp | a SIM failure is not the same thing as a missing sim. you have to frist have a sim to have it fail. |
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| 04:20.20 | ljp | hmm.. odd. CSTAT seems to give the error 10 |
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| 04:51.16 | raddy | Hello everybody |
| 04:51.53 | raddy | : just installed qtopia in Neo 1973 |
| 04:51.54 | raddy | Two major problems |
| 04:51.54 | raddy | 1 It is not detecting my sim. just shows no network |
| 04:51.54 | raddy | 2 Phone keys locked |
| 04:55.01 | raddy | anybody there? |
| 04:58.08 | cjb_ie | at&t sim? |
| 04:58.57 | raddy | cjb_ie: nope |
| 04:59.20 | cjb_ie | dunno then |
| 04:59.44 | cjb_ie | lot of european devs here who wouldn't be awake yet - try in a couple hours |
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| 05:00.39 | raddy | cjb_ie: if qtopia didn't detect network, can't use any other features |
| 05:00.53 | cjb_ie | (and the US is mostly going to sleep around now) |
| 05:01.00 | raddy | gcb77_ are you using qtopia? |
| 05:01.09 | Henryk | it's 7 am in europe now, so i bet there's quite some percentage of developers here who just went to bed. like me. |
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| 05:01.58 | roh | heh |
| 05:02.19 | roh | raddy which network is the sim from? |
| 05:02.36 | Henryk | i only know one qtopia user here and that would be alphaone |
| 05:02.51 | ljp | two |
| 05:05.15 | Henryk | anyway, maybe dozing off for a few hours now. mtn db regenerate_caches is taking ages (10.000 of 20.600 done, after 130 CPU minutes, on a 3 GHz P4) |
| 05:06.51 | mwester | Henryk: When you consider how much data is involved, and the amount of data that can be processed in that amount of time on a 3GHz P4, it really is quite difficult to imagine what monotone might possibly be doing! |
| 05:07.09 | Henryk | mwester: easy: RSA |
| 05:08.16 | mwester | What? On every single item of data (the source itself?) |
| 05:09.32 | Henryk | I just got a good read out of http://monotone.ca/monotone.html and it turns out that montone uses the term "certificate" quite freely. basically for them a certificate is any RSA-signed revisionidentifier-key-value triplet. and they use them for things like dates, branches, changelogs, etc. one certificate per key-value item. |
| 05:10.16 | mwester | I am imagining "monotone-lite" and wondering how much faster it might sync... |
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| 05:11.14 | Henryk | in theory that's quite neat, enabling cool disconnected operation and free flow of information because you can basically promiscuitively sync your local database with other databases because just because something is in your database doesn't necessarily mean that you believe it (it would still need a certificate by a key that you trust). Now all we need are faster processors. |
| 05:11.51 | roh | Henryk the question is: which rsa implementation is in use there, what exactly is the usecase and is it optimized yet. |
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| 05:12.23 | mwester | Is there outboard hardware that might do the RSA faster? |
| 05:12.38 | mwester | A USB dongle, perhaps... |
| 05:12.49 | Henryk | yes. we already joked about a "monotone accelerator" pcmcia card :) |
| 05:13.47 | mwester | That would really help those who use older hardware, esp. laptops for development... |
| 05:14.08 | Henryk | my laptop would be faster than the machine that does it now. (just not enough disk space) |
| 05:15.44 | roh | mwester: using crypto itself isnt the issue. |
| 05:15.44 | Henryk | roh: yes, i was thinking about it: the way i see it at least certificate verification should be parallelizeable without any problems to basically any number of processors |
| 05:15.44 | roh | normal cpus nowadays do more mbytes/sec crypto than any accelerator 5 years ago |
| 05:15.47 | roh | Henryk than only halves the time to wait for most of us... there must be more to it |
| 05:16.04 | mwester | So what's the real issue then -- is the problem that too much stuff is individually signed, or something other? |
| 05:16.51 | Henryk | mwester: yes, I'm thinking that the most pressing problem is that there are too many individual signatures involved, at least for the read-only case |
| 05:17.14 | Henryk | but that problem should be solved soon with OE: They're setting up a readonly git mirror |
| 05:17.54 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 05:18.03 | mwester | I *do* need to learn git, that much is true. But since I need commit access to OE, I'll still need to keep monotone up-to-date. |
| 05:18.32 | raddy | roh : Airtel India |
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| 05:18.55 | roh | raddy do you know if that sim is a 3g cap. sim? |
| 05:19.07 | raddy | roh: nope |
| 05:19.58 | Henryk | i was also thinking about how maybe one could delegate the signature verification task to a trustworthy person/system which would then issue signatures that a whole bunch of other signatures were valid. but that would severely affect the ability for disconnected/parallel operation that is so cool about monotone |
| 05:20.57 | Henryk | maybe do some profiling first to determine what really takes so long in monotone instead of speculating |
| 05:21.13 | raddy | roh: any workarounds |
| 05:21.42 | mwester | That's a good idea, though -- for those who are read-only users of monotone, that would permit a local trusted source to provide updates. The integrity of the data could be enforced by simply not accepting changes by a source that doesn't use the full RSA signing. |
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| 05:22.12 | raddy | roh : the qtopia UI is very cool, but without having network detection i am not explore mich |
| 05:22.25 | raddy | roh : i mean gsm network |
| 05:22.41 | mwester | Of course, one could FTP the trusted copy of the database just as well. And a 100MB download is faster than regenerating the DB after a monotone upgrade for most users, at least those with broadband. |
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| 05:29.41 | Henryk | (hmm, i just ran openssl speed on my machine: approx 5000 public rsa 1024 operations per second, and about 10.000 sha1 on 8192 byte blocks per second. the other machine is not slower than half this machine, so even if it was verifying all 60.000 certificates that can't be just it) |
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| 05:37.36 | roh | Henryk hehe |
| 05:40.28 | roh | *sigh* .. is there any reason for qtopia to lock out the user? |
| 05:41.41 | ljp | no, its a bug |
| 05:41.46 | roh | :) |
| 05:42.21 | Fatal | meh :/ just can't get past curl-natvie when using mokomakefile |
| 05:43.01 | *** join/#openmoko Cardo_ (n=root@host-84-221-106-28.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 05:43.05 | ljp | or, rather, bugS |
| 05:47.43 | alphaone | Henryk: What? Who's using qtopia? |
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| 05:49.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3163 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (6 files): |
| 05:49.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: re-sync with mainline u-boot start.S changes |
| 05:49.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * correctly boot from NAND (conflict intoruced by AT91RM9200 changes) |
| 05:49.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * don't call the LED code in lib_arm/board.o since it is not part of |
| 05:49.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: the steppingstone |
| 05:49.24 | mbuf | if i want to upload source code, .bb, and .ipk package in CVS, I have to make them as separate modules? |
| 05:53.36 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60.241.37.3) |
| 05:53.49 | roh | mbuf ? .ipk files do not belong in cvs |
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| 06:02.13 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3164 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-neo1973_defaultconsole_usbtty.patch): add a patch to make usbtty the default u-boot console |
| 06:07.07 | mbuf | roh, ok, so where would i upload them in GForge in projects.openmoko.org? |
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| 06:08.57 | mbuf | roh, i mean .ipk release |
| 06:09.33 | rwhitby | mbuf: you would submit a .bb file to OE, and add the package to openmoko-feed.bb |
| 06:09.49 | rwhitby | (having the OE package download your source from projects.openmoko.org) |
| 06:10.19 | roh | rwhitby hm.. somehow a autobuild for stuff in there would be nice.. |
| 06:10.21 | rwhitby | then the openmoko autobuilder would build your package and add it to the official feed automatically |
| 06:10.46 | mbuf | rwhitby, i don't want to integrate with OE as of now; am thinking of uploading source code (.tar.gz) and .bb to cvs; and then release a binary .ipk of the same? |
| 06:10.47 | rwhitby | roh: stuff in openmoko-feed.bb gets build each time mickey|dinner kicks off the official builder |
| 06:11.18 | rwhitby | mbuf: you can do that, but someone else will just take your .bb and add it to OE, so that the ipk gets built by the official builder. |
| 06:11.57 | rwhitby | The thing is - how do I trust your .ipk? I'd rather trust one that is built by a central resource (where nefarious things get found quickly) than by a single individual |
| 06:12.02 | mbuf | rwhitby, i see; newbie here, so i'd just leave it at that; still learning |
| 06:12.16 | rwhitby | (no offense to you - I'm sure you won't do anything nefarious - it's a general principle) |
| 06:12.38 | mbuf | rwhitby, maybe we can GPG sign the .ipk packages? |
| 06:12.56 | rwhitby | doesn't matter - I still don't know you from a bar of soap |
| 06:13.11 | mbuf | rwhitby, thanks for your explanation |
| 06:13.27 | rwhitby | I may even want to only use packages that I build on my own build host if I am really paranoid. |
| 06:13.31 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 06:13.52 | rwhitby | OE is different from Debian in that respect. No binary uploads by individual developers. |
| 06:14.04 | mbuf | rwhitby, i see |
| 06:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=Atul@202.63.103.2) |
| 06:14.49 | rwhitby | it also makes sure that *everyone* can build the package from source, not just you. |
| 06:15.09 | rwhitby | (in case you disappear, and we need to rebuild the binary ipk) |
| 06:15.40 | mbuf | rwhitby, so, i'd just update the source code in cvs at projects.openmoko.org and then submit the .bb file to OE; in the .bb file i set SRC_URI to source code at projects.openmoko.org? |
| 06:15.49 | rwhitby | yep |
| 06:15.56 | mbuf | rwhitby, cool, thanks |
| 06:16.18 | rwhitby | np - thanks for the contribution. |
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| 07:01.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3165 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (uboot-s3c2440.patch uboot-s3c2442.patch uboot-s3c2443.patch): |
| 07:01.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: typos are evil. consistently calling things CONFOG instead of CONFIG doesn't |
| 07:01.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: really help. s/CONFOG/CONFIG/g |
| 07:01.47 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:01.47 | Fatal | haha |
| 07:01.49 | doc|home | heh |
| 07:01.50 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3166 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch uboot-gta02.patch): remove bash'isms from split_by_variant.sh scripts (Marius Nuennerich) (Closes: #811) |
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| 07:52.07 | dietsunkist | hi |
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| 08:18.27 | hrw | hi |
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| 08:20.50 | Benoitb | hi |
| 08:24.07 | Elessar_81 | hello |
| 08:24.34 | Elessar_81 | can anyone help we with running openmoko in qemu nder ubunut? |
| 08:25.58 | zash` | did you read this wiki-page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu ? |
| 08:27.26 | Elessar_81 | yes I tried it with this workaround but the same problem appears as in this article at the bottom |
| 08:27.40 | Maledictus | Elessar_81: try it under freebsd, works great ;) |
| 08:28.05 | roh | Maledictus hrhr |
| 08:28.31 | Elessar_81 | so I should install an new linux even while this image doesn't work. |
| 08:28.45 | Maledictus | Elessar_81: are you the Elessar from bsdgroup.de? |
| 08:29.10 | Elessar_81 | no I never visited that sie I think |
| 08:29.21 | Elessar_81 | that site |
| 08:29.36 | Maledictus | oh, sorry, then i misinterpreted your name. ignore my comment :) |
| 08:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko tomjoad_ (n=tomjoad4@adsl-70-130-137-193.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) |
| 08:30.51 | Elessar_81 | ok but if my ubuntu is one day so boring I will install frebsd maybe ;-) |
| 08:31.12 | Maledictus | hehe, ok |
| 08:33.37 | Elessar_81 | so it works with freebsd. did you use the makefile or the ubuntu way? |
| 08:33.56 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@147.87.128.108) |
| 08:35.43 | *** join/#openmoko kW__ (n=kwkw@d12-248.dip.axsp.de) |
| 08:35.48 | *** join/#openmoko gwicke (n=Gabriel_@91.65.57.234) |
| 08:35.58 | Maledictus | manual |
| 08:36.38 | Elessar_81 | I tried this wiki to, but with the same error. so the problem seems to be my system |
| 08:37.32 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczxx (n=nosdr4g@ip-58-28-131-149.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 08:37.49 | xzcvczxx | has anyone seen a combo box anywhere in the stock openmoko interface? |
| 08:38.31 | *** join/#openmoko khwu- (n=khwu@java.cs.nctu.edu.tw) |
| 08:38.49 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 08:42.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3167 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/asoc-neo1973_wm8753-power.patch: |
| 08:42.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: This patch fixes the current leak caused by not shutting down the audio |
| 08:42.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: amplifier during suspend/resume and after power-down. See bug |
| 08:42.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=781 |
| 08:45.11 | CM | Ah, nice patches lately |
| 08:45.20 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 08:48.47 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3168 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/series: add the asoc amplifier power down fix to the series |
| 08:51.09 | xzcvczxx | how was poland |
| 08:54.00 | *** join/#openmoko KmiKze (n=KmiKze@brutus.fragtime.net) |
| 08:56.27 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 08:56.45 | hrw | CM: where in Poland? |
| 08:57.15 | hrw | xzcvczxx: openmoko-tasks use combo for categories iirc |
| 08:57.35 | xzcvczxx | hrw: ah thanks |
| 08:58.01 | hrw | xzcvczxx: and this is wrong ;) |
| 08:58.13 | xzcvczxx | oh |
| 08:58.16 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:58.50 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@rt94.highlink.ru) |
| 09:00.41 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 09:00.48 | hrw | xzcvczxx: tis is wrong in this place ofcourse |
| 09:00.51 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@79.136.4.233) |
| 09:01.04 | hrw | xzcvczxx: dates, tasks - both use combox in edit of event/task |
| 09:02.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3169 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (arm-atag-kexec.patch series): |
| 09:02.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Add patch to fix kexec() on ARM machines that need the ATAG structure to be |
| 09:02.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: passed from the bootloader in order to properly boot. (Closes: |
| 09:02.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=930) |
| 09:03.05 | *** part/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60.241.37.3) |
| 09:08.48 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 09:08.49 | CM | hrw: Gdansk |
| 09:09.02 | CM | hrw: I've been to Krakow 2 years ago too |
| 09:09.18 | CM | You have excellent kebabs ;) |
| 09:11.11 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@dhcp-204-83-vpn.unizh.ch) |
| 09:12.50 | univac | we know ;) |
| 09:13.54 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=nosyjoe@ppp-82-135-76-96.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:14.56 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=nosyjoe@ppp-82-135-76-96.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:19.42 | mbuf | are there any sample GTK+ packages that show how to implement a progressbar? |
| 09:20.15 | zash` | aren't there a progressbar-class or something? |
| 09:21.16 | mbuf | zash`, its like, i let the user invoke a function to do the back-end, and while backend is running, progressbar should be displayed; i don't have an example for this -> http://www.gtk.org/faq/#AEN602 |
| 09:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 09:26.32 | *** join/#openmoko simon__ (n=simon@ap164130.wlan.jku.at) |
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| 09:31.17 | hrw | ~lart neod a bit |
| 09:31.17 | apt | chops neod a bit in half with a free AOL CD |
| 09:31.58 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@leningrad.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 09:40.33 | *** join/#openmoko Guest85305 (n=cow@host190-32-static.45-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:40.52 | Guest85305 | hi |
| 09:41.04 | CM | Hello |
| 09:43.50 | cow73 | cm do you have a GTA01 ? |
| 09:43.56 | CM | Yes |
| 09:44.09 | cow73 | still work fine? |
| 09:44.35 | CM | Well, I've messed up my partition table a bit but yes, it works :) |
| 09:45.05 | CM | I haven't been able to try the GPS yet though. Been to lazy to set up a chroot |
| 09:45.53 | Kliment | didn't take very much effore |
| 09:45.56 | Kliment | effort* |
| 09:46.03 | Kliment | I tried out qtopia+gps over the weekend |
| 09:46.05 | Kliment | worked fine |
| 09:46.15 | CM | Kliment: Ah, nice |
| 09:46.22 | cow73 | buy it on the direct.openmoko.com? |
| 09:46.24 | CM | Is there a new qtopia release out? I've been away 5 days |
| 09:46.45 | CM | cow73: Yes, I ordered it there as soon as it opened |
| 09:46.50 | Kliment | not in the last 5 days I think |
| 09:47.10 | CM | Kliment: Ok, thanks. Just know ljp was working on a new release |
| 09:48.09 | cow73 | but the developer version required installation of openmoko on the first power on? |
| 09:48.37 | CM | Yes, back then. Not sure that's needed with the current batch |
| 09:48.38 | Kliment | cow73: or any subsequent poweron |
| 09:49.02 | cow73 | nop |
| 09:49.05 | Kliment | CM: I'll have a look, maybe I haven't noticed it either |
| 09:49.24 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3170 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog configure.ac src/Makefile.am): |
| 09:49.25 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 09:49.25 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: |
| 09:49.25 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Prevent CFLAGS from being obliterated |
| 09:49.35 | cow73 | when the phone arrived on my address, it's drop? (never has openmoko inside?) |
| 09:49.57 | CM | cow73: What do you mean? |
| 09:50.51 | cow73 | the developer version had (inside) the openmoko installed or i install it the first time? |
| 09:51.09 | ScaredyCat | you need ot instal it |
| 09:51.15 | ScaredyCat | the software.. |
| 09:51.33 | ScaredyCat | you'll have uboot installed already... but you'll need the rootfs and kernel |
| 09:53.06 | cow73 | it's difficult? |
| 09:53.24 | CM | No, and it's very well described in the wiki |
| 09:53.36 | Any_Key | morning all |
| 09:53.40 | CM | You can not brick your phone doing it |
| 09:53.48 | CM | Any_Key: Morning :) |
| 09:53.51 | *** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@dhcp-077-251-029-148.chello.nl) |
| 09:54.25 | CM | cow73: As long as you don't mess up your u-boot, you can still fix the phone without a debug board |
| 09:55.19 | Any_Key | CM, wanna see what primitive "analysis" of ts_harvest.out gave? |
| 09:55.34 | cow73 | CM you're still there after 2 hour? |
| 09:55.37 | CM | Any_Key: Sure! Want me to do any more tests? |
| 09:55.47 | CM | cow73: Sure, I'm always here ;) |
| 09:56.05 | cow73 | thank, see you later |
| 09:56.25 | CM | Any_Key: Hmm.. Might be blocked :/ |
| 09:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko monkeyiq (n=monkeyiq@124.148.76.19) |
| 09:57.18 | zash` | CM: irssi + screen is the shit :) |
| 09:57.36 | CM | Sure is. :) |
| 09:58.12 | Any_Key | CM, OK i'll post it elsewhere,i'll fill a bug, I don't really know is it bug in driver or ts_* tools :-) |
| 09:58.47 | CM | Any_Key: Ok. Just say if you want me to run any more tests or so |
| 10:01.09 | Any_Key | no thanks it looks pretty simple, X measured as Y and inverted, Y measured as X and multiplied by 2. looks as typo of some sort |
| 10:02.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 932 has been created by erin_yueh(AT)openmoko.com |
| 10:02.02 | cdbot2 | * * not receive new SMS message event in openmoko-today |
| 10:02.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=932 |
| 10:04.35 | Any_Key | CM, http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4930/tsharvestgraphkg8.png |
| 10:05.06 | Kliment | shit I forgot my neo in belgium |
| 10:06.25 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@158.102.66.32) |
| 10:08.00 | CM | Any_Key: Nice graphs. I'm guessing it's the ts tools that are weird, since using the phone works just fine |
| 10:08.00 | Kliment | so two weeks with no neo |
| 10:08.36 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 10:13.44 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 10:14.45 | Any_Key | CM, graphs where the simple ones from OOfice, I'll think a little where I'll fill a bug. |
| 10:14.48 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p54AF474B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:15.55 | woglinde | hu stephmw |
| 10:15.59 | woglinde | hi |
| 10:16.16 | Any_Key | Kliment, ask the person who have your Neo to plug in to the net and ssh in to it. |
| 10:17.16 | *** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 10:19.06 | Any_Key | CM, I'll ask on #oe |
| 10:30.17 | *** join/#openmoko vciaglia (n=vciaglia@host50-195-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:30.43 | vciaglia | hello guys. I upgraded my neo with the latest resources but now the UI doesn't boot up. Why? |
| 10:32.08 | woglinde | vcialia what exactyl did you? |
| 10:33.12 | vciaglia | just "./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D ./uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r3-fic-gta01.bin" and "./dfu-util -a rootfs -R -D ./openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2" |
| 10:33.40 | vciaglia | i also got a "Dialer: Error connecting to gsmd" |
| 10:35.46 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 10:36.02 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 10:41.49 | mbuf | vciaglia, try restarting gsmd after boot-up?, "/etc/init.d/gsmd restart" |
| 10:43.23 | vciaglia | mbuf: i think that until i can't boot-up the UI...i can't ssh in the phone and setting up networking |
| 10:44.51 | woglinde | vciaglia where did you download the image? |
| 10:45.34 | vciaglia | woglinde: the uImage here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/ while the openmoko-devel-image here: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D |
| 10:46.05 | mbuf | vciaglia, yes; i use uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r0-fic-gta01.bin, |
| 10:46.09 | vciaglia | but now i'm flashing with the openmoko-devel of the location of uImage. |
| 10:46.23 | woglinde | what? |
| 10:46.51 | mbuf | vciaglia, supposed to be a october snapshot, name is september, OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070917-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 10:47.29 | *** join/#openmoko edu (n=chatzill@r200-125-39-177-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 10:47.30 | vciaglia | mbuf: yep, now i'm flashing with the september snapshot |
| 10:48.07 | mbuf | vciaglia, ok |
| 10:48.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3171 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-vibrator.patch s3c2410-pwm.patch): |
| 10:48.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: S3c24xx timer4 doesn't have PWM support, so don't even try to use it for that. |
| 10:48.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Also, refuse to reconfigure the prescaler 1 (shared between timer 2,3,4), since |
| 10:48.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: that would modify the kernel timer clock tick. |
| 10:49.50 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M8c1c.m.pppool.de) |
| 10:50.22 | vciaglia | mbuf: are you using GSM too? |
| 10:50.38 | mbuf | vciaglia, yes |
| 10:50.51 | vciaglia | mbuf: with this snapshot? |
| 10:50.58 | mbuf | vciaglia, yes |
| 10:51.12 | vciaglia | mbuf: nice, i have to try then :) |
| 10:53.16 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@ap164130.wlan.jku.at) |
| 10:53.39 | vciaglia | mbuf: d'oh... i see a lot of X images now... |
| 10:54.11 | mbuf | vciaglia, been there, you need to nand erase before you reflash rootfs.jffs2 |
| 10:54.58 | mbuf | vciaglia, see "nand erase rootfs" step here, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko#Actually_flashing_things_into_the_device |
| 10:55.25 | vciaglia | mbuf: thanks i'm here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Nand_erase |
| 10:56.11 | mbuf | vciaglia, there are many redundant HOWTOs in the wiki; needs some clean-up |
| 10:56.42 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 10:56.47 | vciaglia | umh.. |
| 10:56.48 | vciaglia | # cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 10:56.48 | vciaglia | cu: open (/dev/ttyACM0): No such file or directory |
| 10:56.48 | vciaglia | cu: /dev/ttyACM0: Line in use |
| 10:57.05 | mbuf | vciaglia, you need to reboot the phone into u-boot mode, connect to PC |
| 10:57.11 | XorA | vciaglia: dont run cu as root |
| 10:57.40 | vciaglia | ok i'm going to try |
| 10:58.34 | mbuf | vciaglia, you can reflash u-boot to u-boot-gta01bv4-latest.bin, to avoid doing the nand erase step, everytime you reflash the rootfs; if you don't have debug board, it is up to you to do take this decision |
| 10:58.53 | vciaglia | NAND erase: device 0 offset 0x2e4000, size 0x3d1c000 |
| 10:58.54 | vciaglia | OK |
| 11:01.04 | vciaglia | and now i'm flashing again with the september snapshot |
| 11:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 11:05.26 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 11:06.45 | vciaglia | mbuf: i haven't the debug board. Should i upgrade to "uboot-gta01bv4-latest.bin"? The wiki says no. |
| 11:09.40 | mbuf | vciaglia, don't then; only thing is you have to do this nand erase everytime; else if there is someone having a debug board close to your place, then you can try it; |
| 11:10.10 | vciaglia | mbuf: ok, thank you. Let's see if it's working now. |
| 11:10.26 | mbuf | vciaglia, it is as simple as flash rootfs or uImage, no different; but AFAIK, after this latest u-boot, which fixes few things, you don't need to flash u-boot in future |
| 11:10.32 | mbuf | vciaglia, anytime |
| 11:11.09 | vciaglia | ok.. |
| 11:13.46 | *** join/#openmoko VUGO (i=vugo@gateway/tor/x-132c59426474c93e) |
| 11:15.24 | vciaglia | mbuf: it's ok now! Thank you for your informations. However i still have the question mark for GSM. |
| 11:16.47 | mbuf | vciaglia, your welcome; please submit any bugs to http://bugzilla.openmoko.org; it will help the team a lot! |
| 11:18.14 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 11:23.31 | vciaglia | mbuf: have you used some patch to fix the gsm "question mark" problem? |
| 11:23.53 | mbuf | vciaglia, what is the "question mark" problem? |
| 11:24.17 | vciaglia | mbuf: i can't register with my network and a question mark is showed |
| 11:24.55 | mbuf | vciaglia, after boot-up, i restart gsmd, using "/etc/init.d/gsmd restart"; due to some boot-up gsmd timing issue; after that I use AT commands manually to test it |
| 11:27.15 | mbuf | vciaglia, try this, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM#Registering_with_the_Network |
| 11:28.12 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 11:29.00 | vciaglia | mbuf: i'm going to try |
| 11:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@office.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 11:37.57 | mbuf | vciaglia, if gsmd crashed, check if gsmd is still running, "lsof | grep tty"; also check /tmp/gsm.log, |
| 11:41.36 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky_ (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 11:43.23 | vciaglia | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/qtopia-image-fic-gta01.jffs2. Is this the qtopia os? |
| 11:45.27 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-3-156.44-151.net24.it) |
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| 11:52.23 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 11:52.54 | Sup3rkiddo | hi all |
| 11:54.07 | *** join/#openmoko ewon (n=ewan@skynet.skynet.ie) |
| 11:54.12 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
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| 11:54.29 | ScaredyCat | vciaglia: yes |
| 11:54.32 | ewon | well shit, they went for the atmel gps |
| 11:55.05 | cjb_ie | ewon: slowly catching up are we ;) |
| 11:55.14 | ewon | haven't been on the channel for a while :) |
| 11:56.13 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-184-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 12:05.13 | LaF0rge | ewon: shit? |
| 12:05.35 | ewon | LaF0rge: "well shit", as in a form of exclamation |
| 12:05.47 | LaF0rge | ewon: i see. |
| 12:05.49 | ewon | say it with a south-texas-sheriff accent |
| 12:06.04 | ScaredyCat | sheeet |
| 12:06.11 | ewon | exactly. |
| 12:06.12 | LaF0rge | ewon: well, I'm german, so particularly colloquial use of en_US might not be parsed correctly on this side |
| 12:06.18 | ewon | I'm en_IE :) |
| 12:06.36 | alphaone | ewon: Try mozilla :-) |
| 12:06.43 | ScaredyCat | might have know, an IE user ;) |
| 12:06.47 | ScaredyCat | known |
| 12:06.54 | ewon | hah, nein! |
| 12:07.04 | *** join/#openmoko ifoox (n=ifoox@CPE001839ea7733-CM00159a65ea54.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 12:07.05 | CM | Any more interesting stuff these last 4 days? :) |
| 12:07.22 | ewon | \o/ |
| 12:07.36 | CM | LaF0rge: We've noticed, and we're happy too ;) |
| 12:07.36 | zash` | yay! |
| 12:07.39 | ScaredyCat | some guy called CM said he would buy everyone in the channel an 02 the day before yesterday |
| 12:07.51 | guaqua | :> |
| 12:08.16 | CM | ScaredyCat: Oh, that must have been after all those cheap Lech and Mojitos on saturday night.. ;) |
| 12:08.16 | ewon | I have an interview at the US embassy thursday, and will then be moving to LA by the end of the month |
| 12:08.18 | zash` | woot :D |
| 12:08.23 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03werner * r3172 10/trunk/src/host/usbpath/Makefile.am: Makefile.am: also install lsusbpath |
| 12:08.32 | guaqua | the confog commit was funny...reminded me of the post in worse the failure |
| 12:08.34 | ScaredyCat | hehehhe |
| 12:09.24 | zash` | fjollträsk! |
| 12:09.31 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@office.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 12:09.48 | *** join/#openmoko cow73 (n=cow@host190-32-static.45-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:10.15 | cow73 | hi @ all |
| 12:10.21 | ewon | o/ |
| 12:10.21 | ScaredyCat | cM! |
| 12:10.34 | ScaredyCat | I hope my v8 will be done before then :P |
| 12:11.04 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.172.19) |
| 12:11.07 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe.. I'll flogg the poor workers at the manufacturing so you'll have your christmas present ;) |
| 12:11.14 | ScaredyCat | hehehe |
| 12:13.27 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (i=laforge@narada.tw.openmoko.org) |
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| 12:19.54 | CVirus | LOL @ CM |
| 12:20.45 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=nosdr4g@gentoo/user/xzcvczx) |
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| 12:44.00 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3173 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-vibrator.patch: |
| 12:44.00 | CIA-23 | openmoko: increase vibrator PWM frequency to 257kHz (66MHz / 2 / 2 / 64) to be outside |
| 12:44.00 | CIA-23 | openmoko: the human-audible range. It's a vibrator, not a 4kHz beeper! |
| 12:44.37 | *** join/#openmoko russellb (i=russellb@asterisk/developer-and-stable-maintainer/drumkilla) |
| 12:44.52 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3174 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: the spi bus is number 2 (0+1 are s3c24xx internal spi0 and spi1) |
| 12:46.10 | woglinde | haha |
| 12:46.13 | woglinde | nice bug |
| 12:46.39 | woglinde | sounds some children has acces to the phone |
| 12:47.23 | russellb | those children ... always getting mixed up with the spi bus. |
| 12:47.30 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:47.31 | ewon | heh |
| 12:48.38 | woglinde | not the spi |
| 12:48.50 | woglinde | the beeper |
| 12:49.13 | woglinde | sounds we can use the neo to protecd us from underage rubbers |
| 12:49.35 | woglinde | args |
| 12:49.57 | woglinde | robbers |
| 12:50.12 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@74.12.210.228) |
| 12:52.20 | xyzzy_bill | Hey, guys... here's another hair-brained scheme I'm noodling. Porting PocketSphinx to the neo. |
| 12:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko cow73 (n=chatzill@host190-32-static.45-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:53.07 | xyzzy_bill | I short, I think it would be awesome to have speech recognition on the phone capable of both dial-by-voice, and dictation for e-mail. |
| 12:54.02 | russellb | speech recognition and dictation aren't quite the same thing |
| 12:54.15 | russellb | are you sure sphinx does both? |
| 12:54.22 | russellb | i think it's just for speech recognition. |
| 12:54.33 | *** join/#openmoko edu (n=chatzill@r200-125-34-193-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 12:54.46 | russellb | as in, it will try to determine a best match within a set of choices |
| 12:55.17 | xyzzy_bill | It actually does both. |
| 12:55.28 | russellb | oh yeah? alrighty, then. |
| 12:55.46 | xyzzy_bill | And, it's released (recently) under a BSD-like license :-D |
| 12:56.00 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:56.03 | xyzzy_bill | http://sourceforge.net/projects/cmusphinx/ |
| 12:57.06 | xyzzy_bill | The tiny touch-keyboard on the iPhone sucks big-time, and it can only be worse on the neo. Voice entry could be pretty handy on such devices. |
| 12:57.17 | russellb | agreed |
| 12:57.30 | russellb | isn't the latest version of sphinx in java? |
| 12:57.49 | russellb | i haven't looked at it in a long time, obviously ... |
| 12:58.02 | xyzzy_bill | Version 4 is in Java, but version 3 (on which PocketSphinx is based) is pure C. |
| 12:58.11 | russellb | perfect |
| 12:58.19 | xyzzy_bill | They use the same data models, though. |
| 12:59.02 | xyzzy_bill | I'd start building it now, but I'm rebuilding the openmoko stuff from scratch, so I've got a few hours to kill. Guess maybe I'll do some work I actually get paid for. |
| 12:59.16 | russellb | heh |
| 13:02.19 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
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| 13:15.09 | Sup3rkiddo | hello, can anyone tell me why i am getting this message, NOTE: python-gsmd-0.01: svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/python-openmoko has no entry in conf/checksums.ini, not checking URI, and if checksums.ini is the cause, how do i remove this message and make the build system build newer code |
| 13:17.34 | LittleIdiot | uhm, does the wolfson chip in the moko support ac97 and is it implemented in the driver? |
| 13:18.39 | SpeedEvil | what do you mean by that? |
| 13:18.57 | SpeedEvil | It is basically a sound card and mixer chip all in one. |
| 13:20.58 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: that warning is harmless - it's an option check on the contents of the download |
| 13:21.02 | rwhitby | optional |
| 13:21.04 | hrw | Sup3rkiddo: this message has nothing common with building newer or older code |
| 13:21.45 | LittleIdiot | well, alsa provides some ac97 functions that could help saving a few (milli)watts |
| 13:23.17 | Sup3rkiddo | but from the output, i dont see new code being checked out, or is the output being surpressed? |
| 13:23.33 | mbuf | battery goes into deep sleep, when Neo1973 is connected to the PC the whole day? |
| 13:26.13 | SpeedEvil | LittleIdiot: it implements a whole heap of suspend modes. |
| 13:26.34 | SpeedEvil | LittleIdiot: These could map to any suspend modes you like |
| 13:27.23 | SpeedEvil | Though doing a fully general solution is annoyingly complex. |
| 13:27.47 | hrw | LittleIdiot: ASoC (ALSA System on Chip) do more then those simple thhings in ac97 |
| 13:28.26 | hrw | LittleIdiot: only needed parts of audio subssytem are powered, they are also powered in proper order etc |
| 13:28.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3175 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer-panel.c): |
| 13:28.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_init), |
| 13:28.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (moko_dialer_panel_pressed): |
| 13:28.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Don't use -1 as a char value |
| 13:28.44 | SpeedEvil | For example, the audio can route from the audio output of the GSM chip, to the headphones, with the CPU complewtly off. |
| 13:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FDE3A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 13:41.11 | xzcvczx | anyone know what the best way to rotate the screen would be in a c program? |
| 13:41.51 | _diego_ | system('xrandr ...'); ? |
| 13:42.12 | xzcvczx | _diego_: was thinking that but reasonably ugly |
| 13:42.21 | _diego_ | ok... it's quite a hack :) |
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| 13:42.44 | xzcvczx | _diego_: unfourtunately it may be my only option though :( |
| 13:42.58 | Mek | it would by nice if somehow it would be remembered what orientation you last had for an executable, and automatically use that orientation again the next time it is started.. |
| 13:43.57 | xzcvczx | Mek: i wish it was just implemented in the gtk library.... as more and more embedded devices move to linux/gtk we may actually see this. |
| 13:44.42 | Mek | uhm... I want this even for non-gtk applications :P |
| 13:45.50 | xzcvczx | Mek: well gtk/qt/everything equivalent to this |
| 13:46.46 | Mek | I think it thus would make more sense to implement it at a lower level than at the gtk/qt/sdl/... level so you only have to implement it once, and it just works for every X app... |
| 13:48.12 | xzcvczx | x11 libraries then i guess |
| 13:49.46 | xzcvczx | what level does xrandr use, as logically if you used that you would be able to incorporate it into your program |
| 13:51.47 | gamin | you will want to integrate the output of the accelerometers to automgically rotate |
| 13:52.23 | gamin | I wonder if the x11 libs are not too low level for this |
| 13:52.56 | gamin | not all apps want to be rotated... |
| 13:54.50 | SpeedEvil | As far as the app is concerned - it's 'just' a window resize. |
| 13:55.00 | SpeedEvil | Which some deal with better than others. |
| 13:56.08 | SpeedEvil | !seen prpplague |
| 13:56.09 | cdbot2 | prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) was last seen quitting from #openmoko 2 days, 15 hours, 58 minutes ago stating ({"Leaving"}). |
| 13:59.36 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 13:59.52 | xzcvczx | hmmm sweet it seems you might be able to use Xrandr.h for rotation in a program |
| 14:00.04 | xzcvczx | i guess you would want to make sure you return it before you quit though |
| 14:00.17 | xzcvczx | otherwise you will be stuck with rotated screen til you turn it back |
| 14:01.02 | SpeedEvil | That's the icky way IMO. |
| 14:01.20 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: well whats less icky than that? |
| 14:01.44 | SpeedEvil | The whole thing needs to auto-rotate sensibly. |
| 14:02.06 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise you get the top-bar at the left with the writing going the wrong way |
| 14:02.23 | SpeedEvil | Some system daemon that does the rotating. |
| 14:02.29 | xzcvczx | well when my program has it rotated the program is in actual full screen mode |
| 14:02.36 | SpeedEvil | And all applications just deal with window resize events the right way. |
| 14:03.10 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: but it also needs to deal with rotating the widgets |
| 14:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:03.29 | SpeedEvil | The whole screen is rotated as I understand it. |
| 14:03.49 | zash` | xrandr rotates the whole screen, yes |
| 14:03.59 | SpeedEvil | To the applications, it just looks like your window has been resized from 480*630 to 630*480 |
| 14:04.20 | SpeedEvil | The rotation is done at a deeper layer that the app never sees. |
| 14:04.25 | SpeedEvil | (usually) |
| 14:04.28 | xzcvczx | oh ok |
| 14:07.12 | xzcvczx | has anyone tried a fullscreen program yet? do they fully fullscreen(removing top and bottom bars) |
| 14:07.53 | CM | Does the calculator rotate? |
| 14:08.20 | CM | xzcvczx: ScummVM works in fullscreen |
| 14:08.31 | *** part/#openmoko Benoitb (n=Benoitb@public1.alcasat.net) |
| 14:08.32 | xzcvczx | sweet |
| 14:08.39 | xzcvczx | solves that |
| 14:09.04 | CM | No top bars visible or so |
| 14:12.14 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.103.122) |
| 14:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 14:14.24 | LittleIdiot | uhm, will the pulseaudio server be used in the future as well, or was/is this just a temporary solution? |
| 14:14.55 | LittleIdiot | i'm asking because i saw it only in some images, while others didn't have it |
| 14:16.45 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 14:16.46 | LittleIdiot | ...or in other words: when writing an audio application, shall i rather implement the audio stuff with alsa or for pulseaudio? |
| 14:17.07 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03werner * r3176 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/envedit.pl: |
| 14:17.07 | CIA-23 | openmoko: envedit.pl: added option "-s size" to set environment size in bytes (for large |
| 14:17.07 | CIA-23 | openmoko: page NAND) |
| 14:17.07 | CIA-23 | openmoko: envedit.pl: added option "-I dir" to add a path name element to @INC, to allow |
| 14:17.07 | CIA-23 | openmoko: envedit.pl to be run from other directories than "." |
| 14:17.08 | CIA-23 | openmoko: envedit.pl: if there's a path in $0, automatically add it to @INC |
| 14:17.51 | SpeedEvil | LittleIdiot: An optimally flexible thing I think can't use ALSA. |
| 14:18.02 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe3cdd00-15.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:18.17 | SpeedEvil | LittleIdiot: It needs some daemon to assign A/D and D/A channels on the fly. |
| 14:19.03 | SpeedEvil | For exampe - you're playing an mp3 over headphones when a call comes in that you have the caller number in your automatic 'drop to internal voicemail' list. |
| 14:20.57 | SpeedEvil | This means that you need to work out what A/Ds and D/As are free and reconfigure routing so that this happens without the users mp3 being interrupted. |
| 14:21.40 | SpeedEvil | Which may in some cases mean downmixing the MP3 to mono, as you've run out of D/As. |
| 14:21.45 | LittleIdiot | yep, i know... but i haven't found any document in the wiki that describes guidelines for audio apps. maybe someday the "deciding people" fall for jack or esd and my app needs patching... |
| 14:22.10 | CM | I think mickeyl said pulse audio will be used |
| 14:22.12 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=Atul@202.63.103.2) |
| 14:22.14 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@dsl54007FE3.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 14:22.15 | SpeedEvil | Something that talks ALSA directly will break this. |
| 14:23.14 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__27 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-d0cf1d8dd8c508d3) |
| 14:23.44 | xzcvczx | lol if you are looking for something equivalent to vnc dont even think about bothering with NX its total crap |
| 14:24.48 | LittleIdiot | yep, or wont even start because pulseaudio has claimed the device... |
| 14:25.01 | *** join/#openmoko lsobral (n=sobral@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:26.45 | Sup3rkiddo | hello, so the build system is still building old code even if i rm -rf the build directory in additon to the usual make clean-package. new code from svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/python-openmoko is being checked out. I am getting a "<uri> has no entry in conf/checksums.ini" warning. i dunno if this is the cause, but where the hell is the code lying after cleaning everything up..beats me |
| 14:26.52 | abraxa_ | LittleIdiot: You are invited to assume that PulseAudio is here to stay. |
| 14:27.08 | Sup3rkiddo | oh dang, sorry, that was long |
| 14:27.27 | Sup3rkiddo | *is not checked out |
| 14:28.08 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 14:28.18 | CM | abraxa_: I just hope Lennart isn't too busy playing with his Mango Lassi ;) |
| 14:28.58 | abraxa_ | CM: Oh I'm sure we'll see tons of development for it still - it works quite fine as it is already anyways :) |
| 14:29.28 | CM | Yes, but I find it a bit tricky to configure still. |
| 14:29.47 | CM | Mostly because of my own laziness I'm afraid.. :P |
| 14:30.15 | abraxa_ | CM: Maybe so, I only used it on the Neo and my desktop so far - samba was way harder to configure, f.ex. ;) |
| 14:30.57 | CM | I'm reading the long mail Lennart posted to the desktop-devel list last friday |
| 14:31.17 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: Did you delete the stamp files, too? |
| 14:31.34 | abraxa_ | CM: Got a link? |
| 14:31.44 | CM | abraxa_: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2007-October/msg00136.html |
| 14:31.48 | abraxa_ | Thankies |
| 14:31.51 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, hmm...no, but shouldnt it be done automatically? pardon me for the ignorance |
| 14:32.00 | Sup3rkiddo | and where are they located? |
| 14:32.12 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: It should but can't hurt trying - build/tmp/stamps/arm... |
| 14:32.27 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, ok, thanks for the hint |
| 14:32.29 | CM | abraxa_: Isn't he just building the svn checkout? |
| 14:32.56 | Sup3rkiddo | yes |
| 14:32.58 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: Or is it in the official openmoko? Building with bitbake or the makefile? |
| 14:33.08 | abraxa_ | CM: If there are no sources in build/tmp/work/arm... then something else must be flawed |
| 14:33.59 | Sup3rkiddo | CM, makefile, i just want the ipk to be built, dont want to upgrade my rootfs and possible spoil the gsmd which was working flawlessly in saturday's tree |
| 14:34.08 | CM | Ah, ok |
| 14:34.17 | emdete | what may this message mean: "JFFS2 notice: (846) check_node_data: wrong data CRC in data node at 0x02bab600: read 0x353cef32, calculated 0x60c9f407."? |
| 14:34.30 | Sup3rkiddo | ..so doing make-build-package-<foo> and cleaning it up |
| 14:34.37 | CM | Once my emerge -u --deep world is done I'll try to build a fresh new image :) |
| 14:34.40 | abraxa_ | CM: What's that "spaceboy distro"? |
| 14:34.48 | abraxa_ | Gentoo? |
| 14:34.49 | CM | abraxa_: Ubuntu |
| 14:34.51 | abraxa_ | Oh |
| 14:35.06 | CM | Mark "Spaceboy" Shuttleworth.. ;) |
| 14:35.13 | abraxa_ | Unheard of :) |
| 14:35.27 | CM | Well, he was the first space tourist |
| 14:35.43 | abraxa_ | emdete: If it's on the device then it sounds like that memory cell has gone bad |
| 14:36.01 | abraxa_ | CM: What does that have to do with Ubuntu? |
| 14:37.09 | Sup3rkiddo | funny i use both gentoo and debian, and they are sure flame baits in the respectvie channel |
| 14:37.46 | juri_ | debian is jesus. apt-get jesus. |
| 14:38.21 | xyzzy_bill | Grrr.... has anyone else just seen svn.openmoko.org freeze up, or is it just me? |
| 14:38.22 | emdete | abraxa_: yes, it's on the neo... so i destroyed a cell already? :( |
| 14:38.50 | abraxa_ | emdete: Not destroyed - normal wear |
| 14:39.12 | CM | abraxa_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth |
| 14:39.14 | CM | :) |
| 14:39.52 | *** join/#openmoko _diego__ (n=diego@host-84-223-114-153.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 14:41.04 | abraxa_ | Holy crap. |
| 14:41.22 | abraxa_ | Sometimes I envy those guys. |
| 14:41.41 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:42.10 | abraxa_ | Making more money they can ever spend in a life time... for comparatively tiny inventions. |
| 14:42.41 | CM | And using it to doing only what you want to do :) |
| 14:43.41 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFE207.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:44.17 | Sup3rkiddo | deleting the stamps and repeating the steps doesnt work =( |
| 14:45.10 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 14:45.16 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: What do you want to do exactly? (Sorry, joined too late) |
| 14:46.06 | berkus | yum.. does any one have a prebuilt package for fbreader? :) |
| 14:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 14:47.17 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, ok actually i got some code in the svn..modified the recipes accordingly...yesterday make-build-package-python-gsmd worked, checking out the code..today i moved around some code and when i repeat the steps, yesterdays code is getting built even if i manually delete the build dir or use make-clean-package. |
| 14:47.56 | lukaszb | Is buildhost.openmoko.org down? |
| 14:48.33 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: How do you know the old code is getting built? Does bitbake jump right to do_compile? |
| 14:50.24 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, wait from this svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/python-openmoko has no entry in conf/checksums.ini, not checking URI, besides cding into the workdir after doing a make build-package-<foo>, |
| 14:50.58 | Sup3rkiddo | ls shows yesterdays code, so that must be getting built |
| 14:51.07 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:51.19 | ww | ~seen roh |
| 14:51.21 | apt | roh is currently on #oe (2d 16h 22m 59s) #openmoko (2d 16h 22m 59s). Has said a total of 116 messages. Is idling for 6h 23m 16s, last said: 'Maledictus hrhr'. |
| 14:51.33 | Sup3rkiddo | ~seen Sup3rkiddo |
| 14:51.34 | apt | sup3rkiddo is currently on #debian (2h 59m 11s) #oe (2h 59m 11s) #openmoko (2h 59m 11s). Has said a total of 18 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen Sup3rkiddo'. |
| 14:51.46 | Sup3rkiddo | ooh..sexy |
| 14:53.27 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: Hmm... I'd run bitbake by hand and have it be verbose to see what is happening internally |
| 14:53.46 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, ah, ok...cool...i didnt think of that |
| 14:54.21 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: source setup-env; cd build; bitbake -v -c [command] [package] |
| 14:54.30 | Sup3rkiddo | yup doing it |
| 14:54.34 | abraxa_ | :) |
| 15:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:03.26 | abraxa_ | CM: Do you agree with Lennart's assessment? |
| 15:03.39 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, bah, -v doesnt help, only dependencies are output in a verbose manner..let me shoot a mail to the good ol' lists...thanks for your time ;) |
| 15:03.58 | CM | abraxa_: HEh, havent finished reading yet. I'm at work and for some reason people still keep interrupting! ;) |
| 15:04.04 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo: There's still -D to try but yeah... might as well. :) |
| 15:04.15 | abraxa_ | CM: Spank them. |
| 15:05.05 | *** join/#openmoko nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-50.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 15:05.32 | abraxa_ | lol ;p |
| 15:05.43 | *** join/#openmoko danilo_ (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 15:15.06 | kristian-m | any idea on that webkit compile-problem? https://nopaste.eof.name/249 |
| 15:15.19 | kristian-m | long time since my last build |
| 15:16.44 | nelson | anybody else having trouble building mtpaint? |
| 15:17.15 | nelson | How do I say "Oops, this won't build; leave it out of the image and move on"? |
| 15:18.13 | kristian-m | nelson remove the dependency from the bb recipe |
| 15:20.28 | CM | kristian-m: I don't recognize that error, but last time bitbake -c rebuild qmake2-native icu; bitbake -c rebuild webkit-gtk fixed it for me |
| 15:20.33 | nelson | tnx |
| 15:20.42 | CM | If that doesnt' work I've rebuilt from scratch |
| 15:23.59 | kristian-m | CM okay thx - i'll try that |
| 15:24.37 | CM | kristian-m: Maybe just qmake2-native would be enough for you |
| 15:24.46 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 15:25.12 | kristian-m | CM well, it's runnung both now -we'll never now ;-) |
| 15:25.32 | CM | Hehe.. It looked like it didnt' find webkit at all |
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| 15:33.24 | kristian-m | CM done - that was it. Thanks. - I still don't know how this could happen though... |
| 15:33.54 | CM | kristian-m: Me neither. I have my suspicions that it's something with qmake, but what I can't say |
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| 16:06.48 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: you haven't told bitbake which svn revision to check out. |
| 16:07.35 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, no, i didnt, but i thought makefile will intstruct the svn to fetch the latest revision, no? |
| 16:07.43 | rwhitby | no |
| 16:08.01 | rwhitby | that is the antithesis of a stable build environment |
| 16:08.41 | rwhitby | and something we fought against for 6 months and only just got SRCREV support fully deployed in OpenMoko. |
| 16:11.29 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, oh!, so i guess one way would be to create some nightly tarballs or add the line src_rev? |
| 16:12.05 | rwhitby | look at the other openmoko svn recipes, and in conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc |
| 16:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko Lunpa (n=lunpa@rch85-2-88-163-221-31.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 16:13.54 | Sup3rkiddo | right |
| 16:14.14 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: From what I gather he however wants to use it to develop, so tying it down to a specific revision might not be what he wants |
| 16:14.17 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:14.35 | Sup3rkiddo | yeah, abraxa_ thanks for bringing that up |
| 16:14.46 | *** join/#openmoko guri (n=guri@77-100-76-243.cable.ubr04.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:15.15 | Sup3rkiddo | i would wish for the build system to checkout the latest svn revision, but i understand it hurts the stability of the environment? |
| 16:15.19 | rwhitby | abraxa_: that's when you put some AUTOREV thing in local.conf - I'm not clear on the syntax, ask in #oe. |
| 16:15.44 | Sup3rkiddo | i better google before asking there =P |
| 16:15.47 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: I tried that and it doesn't work from what I can see :( |
| 16:16.08 | rwhitby | the default should be stability (with the latest tested version to be built), and the author/testers set up instability locally to be able to test new versions. |
| 16:16.31 | rwhitby | using OE for development is the wrong idea anyway, but unfortunately there is no current alternative in OpenMoko. |
| 16:16.38 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@host216-127-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:16.42 | abraxa_ | Amen to that :) |
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| 16:17.21 | guri | evening all. |
| 16:17.36 | abraxa_ | Good evening, guri! |
| 16:18.22 | guri | to compound the issue I have GTA bv4 + Debug Board v3......distinct lack of documentation |
| 16:18.22 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 16:19.06 | guri | hey abraxa_ |
| 16:19.16 | abraxa_ | From what I know there's no difference between the debug boards when it comes to JTAG operation |
| 16:19.47 | guri | that's what I can make out...but after an 8 hour work day I'm not sure I fancy spending another 8 hours "playing" |
| 16:20.06 | abraxa_ | You have a broken uboot-env, righ? |
| 16:20.13 | guri | abraxa_, yup :( |
| 16:20.34 | abraxa_ | Hm |
| 16:20.43 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:20.46 | abraxa_ | Lemme dig up what Harald wrote about that a couple days ago |
| 16:20.58 | guri | the only thing keeping me going is that if I *do* get this all working I'll be writing a killer how-to ;) |
| 16:21.29 | guri | ty |
| 16:21.51 | CM | This bug? http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=765 |
| 16:21.58 | kristian-m | rwhitby how would you develop then? - using a stable, stand alone cross compile environment? - why not using the stage directory? |
| 16:22.21 | rwhitby | kristian-m: using a binary SDK that is installed in your distro. |
| 16:22.23 | abraxa_ | ~logs |
| 16:22.23 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 16:22.38 | kristian-m | rwhitby ah okay, i see |
| 16:22.41 | guri | CM yep |
| 16:23.07 | guri | but at the moment I'm having issues "seeing" the debug board |
| 16:23.08 | rwhitby | OE apparently has facilities for building such a thing, and OpenMoko has plans (I believe) to do that. |
| 16:23.17 | CM | guri: I'll wait a while to see hos the latest uboot works for people before trying it |
| 16:23.28 | CM | I don't want to break my uboot |
| 16:23.36 | guri | CM mine is *very* broken |
| 16:23.48 | CM | uboot or uboot_env? |
| 16:23.51 | guri | unless you like looking at a picture of tux and some text |
| 16:23.53 | guri | CM env |
| 16:24.10 | guri | everytime I mention it someone says "ouchie" :( |
| 16:24.13 | CM | Mine too, the partition table is wrong |
| 16:24.15 | CM | :) |
| 16:24.20 | guri | bah! |
| 16:24.21 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3178 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c src/moko-history.c): |
| 16:24.21 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Based on patch by: Roman Moravcik <roman.moravcik@gmail.com> |
| 16:24.21 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked):Show dialed history when |
| 16:24.21 | CIA-23 | openmoko: dialing empty number. |
| 16:24.21 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-history.c: (on_filter_changed): Select first item in history |
| 16:24.22 | CIA-23 | openmoko: list after filter was changed. |
| 16:24.38 | CoreDump | the env can be restored via debug board and devirginizer |
| 16:24.39 | CM | kristian-m: Have you read mickey's latest blog post? |
| 16:24.51 | abraxa_ | guri: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23openmoko/20071008.html.gz might be of interest, starting 13:06 |
| 16:25.03 | CM | CoreDump: Or just using cu and uboot if you don't have a debugboard |
| 16:25.10 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 16:25.10 | guri | abraxa_, thanks I'll do some reading |
| 16:25.25 | CM | But then you need the usbtty on.. |
| 16:25.30 | guri | CM. /dev/ttyACM0 turns up but cannot connect using cu/screen etc |
| 16:25.34 | CoreDump | CM: if you still get the uboot prompt, yeah |
| 16:25.45 | CM | guri: I have the same thing exactly |
| 16:25.56 | guri | CM wanna fix mine too? :) |
| 16:26.11 | CM | guri: Could you try haralds uboot from today? |
| 16:26.21 | CM | I mean, you have a debugboard ;) |
| 16:26.25 | guri | Am going to read...... |
| 16:26.59 | guri | CM, true but having problems getting that to turn up in /dev/USB* .....plus I'm a complete noob (at this level) |
| 16:27.26 | CM | guri: Me too, but I regret not buying a debugboard :) |
| 16:27.41 | guri | CM ah. well I'd just got my bonus so I splashed out |
| 16:28.01 | guri | CM well if you're ever in Bristol, UK once I get this working.... |
| 16:29.03 | CM | If that uboot version works, I should be able to cu in and rebuild the partitiontable without using a debug board |
| 16:29.52 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse (i=bkruse@nat/digium/x-104ae83ff1efa368) |
| 16:30.08 | *** part/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 16:31.18 | abraxa_ | guri: Can you connect to /dev/ttyUSB0 or /dev/ttyUSB1 while being connected to the debug board and having the Neo booted up with AUX pressed? |
| 16:31.22 | CoreDump | guri: FWIW, I personally found the wiki entry about the debug board and devirginizer pretty useful. It wasn't too difficult to recover a bricked Neo =) |
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| 16:37.43 | orospakr | huh, the GPS chip is changing? |
| 16:37.52 | guri | w00t......debug board appears to be showing up |
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| 16:38.37 | guri | hmmm......back in a bit with the next piece of exciting "i'm a noob and i'm out of my depth" after the next stage ;) |
| 16:38.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3179 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-backlight.patch gta01-vibrator.patch s3c2410-pwm.patch): (log message trimmed) |
| 16:38.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: s3c2410_pwm: |
| 16:38.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * change structure name into one without _t suffix (it's not a typedef, thank god) |
| 16:38.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * don't allocate the pwm structure within s3c2410_pwm code, but rather embed it |
| 16:38.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: into other structures |
| 16:38.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * rename s3c2410_pwm variables into just 'pwm' |
| 16:38.51 | CIA-23 | openmoko: gta01-vibrator: |
| 16:39.21 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3180 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): |
| 16:39.21 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_dial_button_clicked_cb): Don't use -s |
| 16:39.21 | CIA-23 | openmoko: argument for the dialer shortcut button |
| 16:39.25 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3181 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta02-core.patch gta02-leds.patch series): Add GTA02 LED driver as well as required platform devices/resources |
| 16:40.36 | *** join/#openmoko zmedico_ (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
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| 16:44.14 | guri | oooh. pretty lights flash when i type things in screen ;0 |
| 16:44.41 | abraxa_ | :O... |
| 16:45.14 | abraxa_ | guri: I'd try dynpart/saveenv before devirginating |
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| 16:55.35 | woglinde | hi ph5 |
| 16:55.56 | *** part/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@sr-fw1.router.uk.clara.net) |
| 16:55.57 | pH5 | hi woglinde |
| 16:57.30 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 16:57.35 | *** join/#openmoko Orzech_ (n=Orzech@088156093250.wro.vectranet.pl) |
| 16:57.40 | Orzech_ | Hi guys! |
| 16:58.06 | abraxa_ | Orzech_: Hiho! (and don't forget the girls ;) |
| 16:58.11 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-085-216-001-036.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:58.15 | Orzech_ | sorry :) |
| 16:58.22 | Orzech_ | ofcourse girls are more important ;) |
| 16:58.26 | PBeck | hi |
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| 16:58.36 | Orzech_ | Today I decided, that topic of my Thesis will be video player for OpenMoko ;) |
| 16:58.49 | abraxa_ | Ahh, good luck with that |
| 16:59.03 | abraxa_ | We both need it ;) |
| 16:59.08 | guaqua | what new things are you thinking of, Orzech_? |
| 16:59.14 | Orzech_ | It will be total R&D for me, so I hope You will be able to help me sometimes with some problems :) |
| 16:59.19 | SpeedEvil | Orzech_: well - ... |
| 16:59.22 | CM | Orzech_: I'm assuming you plan for GTA02? |
| 16:59.31 | SpeedEvil | Orzech_: GTA02 has hardware video aqccel |
| 16:59.33 | univac | o ile poakóf ;) |
| 16:59.36 | Orzech_ | Most probably |
| 17:00.10 | Orzech_ | :D |
| 17:00.22 | Orzech_ | raczej Polaków :P |
| 17:00.28 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: What kind? IDCT & Co. or more in the sense of framebuffer acceleration? |
| 17:00.28 | univac | no. |
| 17:01.27 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@abinsbett.org) |
| 17:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 17:02.33 | Orzech_ | SpeedEvil, well I have to learn a lot of things before I'll start |
| 17:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 17:03.03 | Orzech_ | guaqua, What do You mean? :) |
| 17:05.32 | guaqua | Orzech_: shouldn't there be something original in a media player? as far as i know, there already is a media player for openmoko - how are you going to improve on that? |
| 17:06.20 | abraxa_ | guaqua: He'll write his own - we'll be competing ;) |
| 17:06.20 | abraxa_ | (in the good sense) |
| 17:06.20 | guaqua | ;) |
| 17:06.20 | Orzech_ | ;) |
| 17:06.32 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 17:09.01 | Orzech_ | guaqua, ASAP OpenMoko doesn't have nice one, however this was not my opinion. |
| 17:09.28 | guaqua | i was more interested in the fact that you are doing it as your thesis work |
| 17:09.33 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: both. |
| 17:09.40 | guaqua | i.e. it should have something new in it... |
| 17:09.47 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: 2d/3d accel, and video decoding hardware |
| 17:09.52 | guaqua | being a mobile, battery limited etc |
| 17:09.53 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Nice :) |
| 17:10.21 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: So maybe we'll see 640x480x25 FPS after all |
| 17:10.31 | SpeedEvil | I don't see much point. |
| 17:10.47 | SpeedEvil | Over 320*240 or so - VCD class |
| 17:10.51 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 17:10.55 | Orzech_ | guaqua, I know, what does mobile application mean ;) |
| 17:11.08 | *** join/#openmoko Cardo (n=root@host-84-221-106-28.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:11.10 | SpeedEvil | 10h+ video at VCD rates at 6G |
| 17:11.17 | Orzech_ | guaqua, I've worked a bit under Symbian and now under WM ;) |
| 17:11.24 | SpeedEvil | 20-30h if you use dmaller vids |
| 17:11.27 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Well yes, perception-wise, however it might make the switch in X resolution unnecessary as the GPU then would handle it |
| 17:11.49 | Orzech_ | guaqua, However, I must tell, I'm not the experienced one. |
| 17:12.21 | cb22 | abraxa_, 640x480x25 would rock |
| 17:12.33 | cb22 | thats pretty much dvd quality |
| 17:12.37 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:13.06 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: you don't care about that though - it's automagical. |
| 17:13.46 | SpeedEvil | And you can't see the differnce between 320*240 and 640*480 on a 2.8" screen in any but the most contrived conditions. |
| 17:13.53 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: My point is that it's a burden on the CPU to switch, so without that switch it would make the UI more responsive - other than that I agree with you completely :) |
| 17:14.09 | SpeedEvil | Err - no, it's not a burden on the CPU to switch |
| 17:14.17 | SpeedEvil | The LCD supports the mode natively. |
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| 17:16.43 | anrp | has anyone gotten it to switch online yet? |
| 17:16.51 | anrp | i only got it to work on bootup, no switching |
| 17:17.03 | SpeedEvil | I mean in principle. |
| 17:17.15 | anrp | .. oh >_> |
| 17:17.19 | SpeedEvil | It's a simple matter of programming to get it working at other times. |
| 17:17.19 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: You'd have to switch the X server's resolution, which would cause the running application(s) to rescale, etc |
| 17:17.19 | *** join/#openmoko Philippe (n=fille@a91-153-17-113.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:17.28 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: no you wouldn't. |
| 17:17.30 | Vegar | does the CPU in the neo have power states like the ACPI C-states? |
| 17:17.36 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: yes. |
| 17:17.46 | SpeedEvil | See the Neo1973:gta01:power managment |
| 17:17.52 | SpeedEvil | or similar page on the wiki. |
| 17:18.17 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: You mean one would leave the off-screen buffer at 640x480 and just use the upper left quarter as a windowed display that the display scales in hardware? |
| 17:18.29 | SpeedEvil | That's one way |
| 17:18.35 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 17:18.43 | abraxa_ | Ah okay, I didn't know that was possible |
| 17:18.53 | guri | Hmmm. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenOCD#openocd.cfg does not seem to be helping.... got a bv4 |
| 17:18.55 | Vegar | SpeedEvil: ok, thanks |
| 17:18.59 | SpeedEvil | The hardware supports - in GTA01 anyway - large virtual screens |
| 17:19.18 | SpeedEvil | guri: did you brick it - or what are you trying to do? |
| 17:19.28 | Vegar | SpeedEvil: so that means that a piece software that keeps polling something frequently will use more power than something that's not polling as often? |
| 17:19.45 | guri | SpeedEvil, yup. i got a bad boot-env on device and am now trying to devirginate it |
| 17:19.49 | guri | very very very slowly |
| 17:20.19 | guri | plus Ubuntu is the sux with it's "ooh you have to sudo to do that....." bah! |
| 17:20.36 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: eventually, yues. |
| 17:20.45 | Vegar | SpeedEvil: ok, was just wondering |
| 17:20.48 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: you don['t want to poll, but use timers. |
| 17:20.53 | Vegar | yeah |
| 17:21.08 | CM | guri: sudo su - ? :) |
| 17:21.35 | guri | CM. yes.....but then I must colour my terminals so I remember which is root and which not ;) |
| 17:21.48 | CM | Oooohhh.. :P ;) |
| 17:22.06 | cb22 | and thats _such_ an effort :) |
| 17:22.13 | guri | CM or.....remember things ;) |
| 17:22.43 | CM | I usually have a root terminal in the upper right corner, and only there |
| 17:22.53 | guri | still, at least now the laptop can actually see the blasted thing in /dev/tty* :) |
| 17:23.22 | guri | and the lights flash on it when I connect with screen.....though no prompt....this is normal I assume? |
| 17:24.04 | pH5 | alphaone: the qvga panel icon scaling problem is a bug in matchbox-panel, for sure. it has a hardcoded standard panel size of 32px and scales loaded images to fit that panel before the gtk widgets are realized, even if the matchbox theme says otherwise. |
| 17:25.38 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 17:27.08 | *** join/#openmoko edu (n=chatzill@r201-221-45-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 17:28.27 | guri | Info: openocd.c:86 main(): Open On-Chip Debugger (2007-03-30 12:00 CEST) |
| 17:28.27 | guri | Info: configuration.c:50 configuration_output_handler(): Command ft2232_layout not found |
| 17:28.27 | guri | Info: configuration.c:50 configuration_output_handler(): Command ft2232_vid_pid not found |
| 17:28.27 | guri | Error: jtag.c:1376 jtag_init(): No valid jtag interface found (ft2232) |
| 17:28.27 | guri | Error: jtag.c:1377 jtag_init(): compiled-in jtag interfaces: |
| 17:28.35 | guri | agh! |
| 17:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (i=aldwulf@a187.net131.okay.pl) |
| 17:29.41 | J-23 | Hello! Is OpenMoko on card or in embedded memory of Neo? |
| 17:29.57 | anrp | embedded, although you can boot it from mmc i believe |
| 17:31.11 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 17:32.54 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (n=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 17:33.02 | PBeck | J-23: its up to you ;) |
| 17:33.59 | J-23 | Somebody has downloaded Windows binaries of QEMU OpenMoko? |
| 17:34.04 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07D6B1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:34.05 | PBeck | J-23: only the bootloader musst be on the internal memory |
| 17:34.31 | guri | J-23, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot |
| 17:34.31 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:34.46 | guri | though I can't talk, mine wont even boot right now ;) |
| 17:35.19 | CM | guri: Not even with the Factory Reset option? |
| 17:35.26 | PBeck | ah thanks guri. Nice pictures on the site ^^ |
| 17:35.53 | CM | guri: I can't boot mine by selecting Boot, but the Factory Reset option doesn't give any Magic number error and the phone works fine |
| 17:36.20 | guri | CM. that's what killed it .... http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=765 |
| 17:37.03 | *** join/#openmoko edu_ (n=chatzill@insw.us) |
| 17:37.04 | CM | Oh, that sucks :-/ |
| 17:37.19 | guri | CM. yup. now I'm wrangling with the debug board :( |
| 17:37.23 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 17:38.16 | guri | on the plus side...I have become the UK's foremost expert on Serial/USB on Ubuntu and learned a *hell* of a lot about low-level linux |
| 17:38.25 | J-23 | Taiwanian* |
| 17:38.28 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@dslb-084-059-109-109.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:38.33 | guri | J-23, Taiwanese |
| 17:38.38 | J-23 | Thanks ;) |
| 17:39.45 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__27 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-4a0a7f033cef0c73) |
| 17:39.50 | guri | and I work in Firmware OTA and Device Management ;) |
| 17:41.11 | abraxa_ | guri: I heard the debug board connector is somewhat tricky to connect, so you might wanna check that |
| 17:41.42 | *** join/#openmoko cb22_ (n=cb22@dsl-245-165-187.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 17:41.50 | guri | abraxa_, nah, it's good right now (3rd attempt)...just got bad compilation of openOCD/devirgin.....need to eat. will look in a bit |
| 17:41.57 | abraxa_ | Ohh okay |
| 17:41.58 | abraxa_ | Enjoy! |
| 17:42.31 | guri | CM. re "I can't boot mine by selecting Boot, [snip] and the phone works fine <---- how so? |
| 17:43.08 | CM | guri: What do you mean how so? |
| 17:43.16 | guri | abraxa_, it's showing up in /dev but openocd is complaining about ft2232 and jtag now....still little steps? |
| 17:43.28 | CM | I mean that I can flash new kernels and rootfs' without problems, but the phone does not boot normally |
| 17:43.49 | guri | CM. aaaaah! gotcha, sorry |
| 17:44.02 | CM | The only way to get it up and running is selecting Factory reset in the menu you getn when holding in AUX on poweron |
| 17:44.07 | abraxa_ | guri: Crossing my fingers for you, mate - but you should eat ;) |
| 17:45.00 | guri | abraxa_, yup. thanks......and then perhaps some beer, always helps with the "right, let's just go all out then shall we" approach |
| 17:46.50 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 18:11.46 | Kero | heh, my homebrewn image (of 2 days old) states it is from August :) |
| 18:20.04 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@78.16.50.78) |
| 18:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 18:23.23 | ScaredyCat | time travel! |
| 18:25.14 | Kero | nah :) matches reports from other ppl too well (a *working* gsm on straightforward booting) |
| 18:25.24 | *** join/#openmoko pulk (i=laiti@laiti.fi) |
| 18:25.53 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 18:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@166.129.137.13) |
| 18:26.59 | lukaszb | after booting i see error "dialer: error setting antenna power", how to solve this? |
| 18:27.21 | Kero | ok let's be brave and try to convert my own package building stuff to a .bb file. |
| 18:30.54 | ww | anyone near berlin with a debug board? |
| 18:31.14 | SpeedEvil | you've looked at the 'local groups'page on the wiki? |
| 18:32.06 | Kero | (and the mailing lists? there's an occasional request, a recent one was soemwhere in Germany...) |
| 18:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADC06D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:33.19 | ww | Kero: iirc it was somewhere far |
| 18:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 18:33.38 | ww | SpeedEvil: i've been trying to track down roh unsuccessfully for the past little bit... |
| 18:33.42 | ww | don't know kris... |
| 18:33.51 | Kero | ww: yes, but a travelling board |
| 18:34.06 | gamin | Hello MichaelShiloh, is there any decision made onto which email client to use? |
| 18:34.27 | SpeedEvil | ww: he said in another place he may be away till tomorrwo. |
| 18:34.30 | Fatal | anyone has any idea why my 'curl-native_7.16.4.bb' keeps failing on me? (using MokoMakefile) been up and down the wiki without any luck |
| 18:34.47 | buz | mhh imcosys now sells maps for their gpslinux phone |
| 18:35.03 | woglinde | fatal if you could provide the error-msg perhabs |
| 18:35.11 | Fatal | woglinde: working on it |
| 18:35.12 | buz | i wonder if the mapping app could be ported |
| 18:35.20 | Fatal | http://c34958d30d841f29.paste.se/ |
| 18:35.39 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@nsc.ciup.fr) |
| 18:35.41 | bedboi | hi all |
| 18:35.52 | ww | SpeedEvil: thanks, i see... |
| 18:36.31 | bedboi | any news? |
| 18:37.30 | guri[away] | I need to get a deb of libftdi......for Ubuntu |
| 18:37.48 | guri[away] | sorry....from the Wiki "libftdi >= 0.8" |
| 18:38.02 | guri[away] | but my modprobe seems ok |
| 18:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@ip-217-204-146-41.easynet.co.uk) |
| 18:42.25 | cjb_ie | googling the imcosys phone gives this one: http://url.ie/653 ( http://www.intomobile.com/2007/03/23/longcheer-g300-gps-phone-coming-to-china-in-april.html ) |
| 18:42.41 | cjb_ie | the hardware spec for which looks superficially rather similar to the neo |
| 18:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko Cardo (n=root@host-84-221-106-28.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:43.57 | cjb_ie | not running linux though. |
| 18:44.49 | guri | http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.neo1973/13/focus=27 .....i think i have the same issue |
| 18:45.06 | guri | ish |
| 18:46.45 | gamin | cjb_ie: http://www.imcosys.com/html/smartphone1.html tells "linux embedded" |
| 18:46.55 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54952F3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:47.32 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44a665.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 18:47.34 | cjb_ie | gamin: yes, that's the imcosys one. the one i linked is another. |
| 18:48.30 | *** join/#openmoko ultralisk (n=twistx@12.109.140.106) |
| 18:48.50 | gamin | strange that imcosys is not more community friendly |
| 18:49.15 | woglinde | hm imcosys is there since serval years |
| 18:49.45 | ScaredyCat | usbpath_native buggered ? |
| 18:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 18:49.56 | Marcel_M | ist quite useless |
| 18:50.08 | ScaredyCat | it's not opensource wither |
| 18:50.13 | ScaredyCat | either |
| 18:50.16 | Marcel_M | yes |
| 18:50.56 | Marcel_M | no apps available (exept javaapps) |
| 18:51.07 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAB84D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 18:51.32 | guri | ScaredyCat, I think I can see the bootloader when connected up with debug board now. sudo lsusb -v -d 0x1457: |
| 18:52.08 | guri | provides loads of output including: iProduct 2 Neo1973 Bootloader U-Boot 1.3.0-rc11.2.0+git20070917+svnr2943 |
| 18:52.55 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve11 (n=fradeve@87.19.76.155) |
| 18:53.46 | guri | would this mean I can use screen/cu to get to it on /dev/ttyUSB as opposed to ACM0 now? |
| 18:54.12 | Marcel_M | sdk for imcosys sm1 costs 1000 euro |
| 18:54.51 | ScaredyCat | guri: you can try it, dmesg report the tty ? |
| 18:55.35 | xyzzy_bill | Sorry about asking more dumb questions... what's the recommended way to flash the neo. I've built the example Hello, World app, and so I suspect I have an image to flash. Is there something like "make flash-kernel"? |
| 18:56.58 | woglinde | xyzzy_bill look at the wiki, you want tu use dfu-util |
| 18:59.06 | guri | ScaredyCat, I now have 2 devices ftdi_sio 1-1.1:1.1: and ftdi_sio 1-1.1:1.0: |
| 18:59.28 | buz | imcosys may be the single most stupid company selling phones |
| 18:59.32 | guri | hm... |
| 19:00.02 | buz | i called them up once (they are literally 20min from here), inquiring about phones. haven't experienced worse unfriendliness in years |
| 19:05.54 | anrp | you don't generally buy direct from mfg |
| 19:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley (n=bmidgley@232.sub-75-216-209.myvzw.com) |
| 19:07.57 | anrp | fic/openmoko is an exception ... and it was pretty bad in the beginning |
| 19:08.00 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@dsl081-134-176.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
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| 19:09.12 | Marcel_M | buz: yes very unfriendy especially on phone |
| 19:09.36 | buz | anrp: you couldnt buy it anywhere else |
| 19:09.42 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 19:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AFEF5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:10.15 | buz | i think imcosys doesnt understand what they could be selling |
| 19:10.17 | buz | not at all |
| 19:10.31 | anrp | mm well i don't know the specifics of that company |
| 19:10.37 | anrp | just saying in general about manufacturers |
| 19:11.24 | buz | most will at least be friendly enough to refer to you to a retail source |
| 19:11.24 | Marcel_M | i bought a "testsample" on the cebit07 for my company |
| 19:11.39 | buz | well except e28 who dont respond to email at all |
| 19:11.55 | Kero | not bad, compiling from bitbake recipe. |
| 19:12.14 | Kero | Now I want to pass extra options to ./configure. docs are a bit sparse, tho :) |
| 19:12.23 | Marcel_M | but i orderd one on the cebit06 ;) |
| 19:13.02 | anrp | which someone forgot about? |
| 19:13.18 | woglinde | marcel_m and then suite because the gpl-violation? |
| 19:13.22 | woglinde | of |
| 19:13.32 | *** join/#openmoko kumpera (n=rodrigo@c91520b2.virtua.com.br) |
| 19:14.29 | Marcel_M | i wrote them to send me the sources which are under gpl but ... noa answer |
| 19:16.31 | Marcel_M | on the cebit they told me that they got no cd's whitch are normally with the phone |
| 19:16.55 | Marcel_M | i should drop them an email ....... |
| 19:17.31 | woglinde | you should suite them |
| 19:18.41 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-86-41.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
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| 19:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@p5B0074F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:23.22 | enjahova | woglinde, not to be pedantic, but its sue |
| 19:23.43 | gi-el | sew :P |
| 19:23.49 | russellb | and by "not to be pedantic", you mean, "to be pedantic" :-p |
| 19:23.53 | enjahova | suiting them would be to accomadate them, which we don't want to do |
| 19:23.54 | gi-el | (and yes, i know that's wrong, but it makes for a very funny mistake) |
| 19:24.05 | woglinde | enjjahova ah thanks |
| 19:24.08 | woglinde | you are right |
| 19:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko Cardo (n=root@host-84-221-106-28.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:24.40 | enjahova | hehe, i know its dangerous to correct grammar on the internets ^^ |
| 19:24.43 | *** join/#openmoko Cardo (n=root@host-84-221-106-28.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:25.39 | woglinde | no |
| 19:25.42 | woglinde | not on me |
| 19:25.58 | Marcel_M | btw somebody want to buy a linux smartphone ;) |
| 19:26.04 | *** join/#openmoko Cardo (n=root@host-84-221-106-28.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:26.28 | woglinde | lol |
| 19:26.34 | Marcel_M | hehe |
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| 19:40.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 933 has been created by joseph(AT)pfeifferfamily.net |
| 19:40.01 | cdbot2 | * * event import |
| 19:40.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=933 |
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| 19:54.07 | ScaredyCat | has anyone tried a compile recently ? |
| 19:54.37 | Marcel_M | yes |
| 19:55.08 | ScaredyCat | ..and..? |
| 19:55.29 | Marcel_M | the images are at a new dir |
| 19:55.50 | Marcel_M | in neo1973 |
| 19:55.51 | ScaredyCat | mm.. no issues with usbpath native then ? |
| 19:55.57 | Marcel_M | no |
| 19:56.19 | Marcel_M | everythin runs just fine |
| 19:58.45 | ScaredyCat | do you have usbpath then ? |
| 19:58.51 | ScaredyCat | is your sources |
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| 20:01.15 | Marcel_M | NOTE: build 200710152159: completed |
| 20:01.24 | Marcel_M | ill take a look |
| 20:01.31 | ScaredyCat | no, I'm asking about usbpath |
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| 20:02.11 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:02.12 | ScaredyCat | looks like another cock up :/ |
| 20:02.24 | Marcel_M | usbpath_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.host_3108_.tar.gz |
| 20:02.53 | Marcel_M | this one ? |
| 20:03.36 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 20:03.39 | ScaredyCat | http://www.pastebin.ca/737867 |
| 20:03.55 | ScaredyCat | can you try a bitbake -crebuild on it |
| 20:04.32 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 20:04.53 | ScaredyCat | seems that the path2devnum.c in openmoko svn is crap |
| 20:05.31 | ScaredyCat | header file dodgyness? |
| 20:05.47 | *** join/#openmoko edu___ (n=chatzill@r201-221-45-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 20:07.46 | Marcel_M | builds fine ->http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m109e8b5 |
| 20:08.20 | ScaredyCat | can you look at your /usr/include/linux/usbdevice_fs.h |
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| 20:08.30 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:09.00 | ScaredyCat | line 49 ish - that struct |
| 20:10.54 | Marcel_M | my usbdevice_fs.h ->http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m29c543f6 |
| 20:12.31 | ScaredyCat | looks identical |
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| 20:17.32 | Marcel_M | hmm |
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| 20:22.19 | xyzzy_bill | Hey, guys. Anyone get their neo working with AT&T? I've got one of the SIMs that in theory are compatible (4022 O) |
| 20:24.47 | *** join/#openmoko X1000v1 (i=X1000v3@gateway/tor/x-d91ee8cf4deab8c8) |
| 20:24.50 | mwester | xyzzy_bill: this should be on the wiki, i would think -- but in addition to the sim problem is the fact that the neo doesn't work on the 850MHz band (which is in heavy use by AT&T). |
| 20:25.03 | mwester | So you might have a working sim, but not be in a cell that you can use. |
| 20:25.54 | cjb_ie | oops, i thought the neo was quad band |
| 20:26.14 | Henryk | the modem is quad band on paper, yes :) |
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| 20:32.24 | orospakr | Henryk: heh, the modem also *works* on paper. |
| 20:32.31 | orospakr | in real life, the story is a little different. |
| 20:32.32 | orospakr | Thanks, TI. |
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| 20:36.16 | *** join/#openmoko mvdir (n=mvdir@208.71.244.100) |
| 20:37.17 | ScaredyCat | got it |
| 20:38.11 | ScaredyCat | apparently something isn't including linux/compiler.h :/ |
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| 20:40.05 | ScaredyCat | !blame random person |
| 20:40.22 | mwester | ~blame random-person |
| 20:40.23 | apt | ACTION blames random-person (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 20:41.08 | ScaredyCat | ~blame mwester form making it ~ and not ! |
| 20:41.09 | apt | ACTION blames mwester form making it ~ and not ! (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 20:41.31 | mwester | :P |
| 20:41.37 | CM | ~koen |
| 20:41.37 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, koen is our regular image monkey, or an idiot this week |
| 20:41.53 | CM | ~emulate crofton |
| 20:41.54 | apt | ACTION don't be so elitist! |
| 20:42.02 | ScaredyCat | ~stfu |
| 20:42.03 | apt | :( |
| 20:42.03 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADC06D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:42.05 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 20:42.06 | CM | I wonder how many of those there is |
| 20:42.06 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 20:42.07 | CM | Hehe |
| 20:42.16 | abraxa_ | ~botsnack |
| 20:42.16 | apt | thanks, abraxa_ |
| 20:42.20 | guaqua | ~semi-intelligent |
| 20:42.24 | abraxa_ | yay! |
| 20:42.24 | guaqua | aww |
| 20:42.39 | ScaredyCat | apt cheese is good |
| 20:42.39 | apt | ACTION hands is good a tray of sliced sharp cheddar and pineapple |
| 20:42.44 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 20:43.01 | CM | ~cheese ScaredyCat |
| 20:43.01 | apt | ACTION hands ScaredyCat a tray of sliced sharp cheddar and pineapple |
| 20:43.05 | CM | :) |
| 20:43.16 | ScaredyCat | stupid bot |
| 20:43.27 | CM | I've never had pinapple with cheese.. Pears or grapes, but not that |
| 20:43.58 | abraxa_ | Grapes and cheese... mmh... |
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| 20:44.36 | ScaredyCat | pineapple + cheese generally served in the shapre of a hedgehog, using those wooden toothpics |
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| 20:46.30 | Henryk | toast hawaii |
| 20:49.57 | guaqua | hawaii <3 |
| 20:50.30 | Henryk | hawaii is less than three? |
| 20:51.01 | guaqua | you can put it that way, or just turn your head 90 degrees clockwise :) |
| 20:51.19 | ScaredyCat | hawaii is a big arse? |
| 20:51.27 | guaqua | ooh |
| 20:51.44 | guaqua | a truly culture-specific smiley |
| 20:51.50 | guaqua | it's a heart <3 |
| 20:52.10 | CM | Google talk flips it to a heart |
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| 20:57.07 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: I wanna see a butt that ends in a point... ;) |
| 20:57.17 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 20:57.28 | ScaredyCat | pointy butts! |
| 20:57.35 | ScaredyCat | conebutts |
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| 21:30.20 | abraxa_ | I have a request for comments - which do you think is/looks better? |
| 21:30.27 | abraxa_ | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/60ae49591f783c8af857e496f2809c3e.png or http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/37946ff00398eee25523b18ede73c772.png ? |
| 21:32.11 | Ghiottone | aren't they the same? |
| 21:32.33 | Stephmw | tbh, I'm not fond of either, they seem too busy. |
| 21:32.55 | Stephmw | Ghiottone: load em in different windows and flick back and forth |
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| 21:33.26 | guaqua | why doesn't the one with the song title have clear place for the song title? |
| 21:33.47 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Busy? How so? |
| 21:34.06 | abraxa_ | guaqua: "clear place"? |
| 21:34.31 | Ghiottone | Stephmw, yeah I had noticed the slight difference |
| 21:34.38 | Ghiottone | I would choose the second one |
| 21:35.01 | *** part/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12D0BF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:35.14 | guaqua | like it belongs somewhere |
| 21:35.24 | guaqua | now it looks like it's left there in the empty space |
| 21:36.48 | Stephmw | abraxa_: the text is all scrunched at the top-right |
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| 21:36.59 | mstevens | hmm, I removed the battery with the USB still attached and it made a very strange noise |
| 21:37.39 | SpeedEvil | It does that. |
| 21:37.40 | anrp | that's a warning sound |
| 21:37.43 | Writchie | mstevens: not recommended |
| 21:37.45 | anrp | basically, "don't do that" |
| 21:37.57 | Writchie | anrp: be thankful no damage |
| 21:38.05 | abraxa_ | guaqua: Yeah, I see what you mean. I'm not exactly sure if that needs to be addressed, though - it does provide good contrast after all |
| 21:38.27 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Basically you're saying the fonts are too small? |
| 21:38.57 | Stephmw | abraxa_: I'm saying there's too much info going in there. |
| 21:39.11 | Stephmw | abraxa_: and without headings, it makes you guess which bit is what |
| 21:39.16 | mstevens | Writchie: is it actually going to break anything |
| 21:39.31 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Think omitting the album name is enough to remedy that? |
| 21:39.43 | ScaredyCat | mstevens: it might, so don;t do it. |
| 21:39.55 | Writchie | mstevens: other's have reported more than just bad sounds |
| 21:40.02 | ScaredyCat | it's not designed to work like that |
| 21:40.03 | Stephmw | abraxa_: I'm thinking doing it more the ipod way might work. Have the detailed info on a separate 'page' you can toggle to |
| 21:40.10 | Writchie | no one has reported destruction -- yet |
| 21:40.32 | Stephmw | abraxa_: think it through - what info do you need immediately when playing a tune? |
| 21:40.34 | Writchie | GTA02 will supposedly be able to run with battery removed |
| 21:40.49 | guaqua | abraxa_: contrast yes, but it looks unfinished - that's what i mean |
| 21:41.12 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: I'd like to avoid adding such a page if possible unless it would integrate with the playlist (which it doesn't - at least at the moment) |
| 21:41.15 | guaqua | it's not so much as is it clear, but is it finished or not. i like the ui however :) |
| 21:41.58 | Stephmw | abraxa_: how about the album artwork being a background instead of taking layout space? |
| 21:42.09 | guaqua | Stephmw: no |
| 21:42.17 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: I intend to use the album space for video playback, too |
| 21:42.38 | abraxa_ | (after all, it'll handle both types) |
| 21:42.53 | abraxa_ | Well, that's what full-screen is for |
| 21:42.56 | *** join/#openmoko maurilio (n=luana@151.43.241.6) |
| 21:43.16 | Stephmw | I like my device UIs simple ;) |
| 21:43.46 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFoxDK (n=martin@89.150.121.200) |
| 21:43.59 | Stephmw | abraxa_: background, I've worked on low-middle end mobile phones |
| 21:44.05 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 21:44.10 | Stephmw | abraxa_: and even now they're starting to cram in too much rubbish |
| 21:44.57 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: I appreciate everyone's input. I just need to find a way to make ends meet - after all, the Neo has quite the sophisticated competitor without anywhere near as much resources to put into the product |
| 21:45.28 | Stephmw | abraxa_: this'll be a commercial offering? |
| 21:45.39 | abraxa_ | Hmm? |
| 21:45.48 | Stephmw | "making ends meet" |
| 21:46.27 | abraxa_ | ...as in "finding a way to make the UI simple, yet sophisticated and stylish" |
| 21:46.59 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:47.01 | Stephmw | ok, just checking :) |
| 21:47.09 | abraxa_ | hehe |
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| 21:48.02 | u_l-lap | abraxa_: soluton -- make the info displayed configurable |
| 21:48.32 | u_l-lap | I like the second screenshot but have no use for album art |
| 21:49.05 | abraxa_ | Hmmm |
| 21:49.06 | u_l-lap | but I'd also like the artist above the album name |
| 21:49.44 | u_l-lap | you could have a toggle for the album art and then make the two fields next to configurable via printfesque specifiers (ala xmms) |
| 21:49.56 | nelson | grrrr, midori and WebKit aren't friends. WebKitGtkFrame isn't getting defined. |
| 21:49.57 | u_l-lap | likewise with the main body of text |
| 21:50.18 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 21:50.18 | abraxa_ | Yeah, I could... my worries are of a different kind: where and how to display a video preview then |
| 21:50.56 | Stephmw | does music and video really have to be treated the same way? |
| 21:51.02 | Stephmw | the video won't have as much metadata |
| 21:51.30 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: It'll have "author" and "title" at least |
| 21:51.54 | Stephmw | abraxa_: I dunno. Most video clips I come across just have a filename |
| 21:52.31 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Ah, okay... I was more thinking of music videos and movies |
| 21:52.56 | Stephmw | abraxa_: hopefully not over GPRS? :D |
| 21:52.57 | abraxa_ | Either way. |
| 21:53.04 | abraxa_ | What would it change in your opinion? |
| 21:53.13 | abraxa_ | lol no |
| 21:53.15 | abraxa_ | ;) |
| 21:53.20 | abraxa_ | From SD |
| 21:53.36 | Stephmw | for a start, with video, overlaying the title is acceptable IMO, as they rarely have embedded text |
| 21:53.44 | Stephmw | esp in the preview |
| 21:54.00 | Stephmw | album cover, I concede wouldn't come out as well |
| 21:54.08 | *** part/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 21:54.45 | abraxa_ | Actually, I don't know if overlaying text on a video window is even possible =x |
| 21:55.10 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 21:55.26 | Stephmw | what's playing the video? mplayer? |
| 21:55.34 | abraxa_ | gstreamer + libs |
| 21:55.48 | Stephmw | hmmm, gstreamer must have facilities for subtitles |
| 21:56.24 | Stephmw | as for the other layout stuff - I'd say playing with it graphically first might work better than programmatically |
| 21:56.37 | Stephmw | IANAUXD |
| 21:56.58 | Stephmw | I'm not a user experience designer... but I've worked with a few |
| 21:59.09 | *** part/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@p5B0074F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:01.27 | abraxa_ | Hmm, I think I know what I'll do - thanks, Stephmw, guaqua and u_l-lap for your input! :) |
| 22:01.55 | woglinde | nite |
| 22:01.58 | Stephmw | see ya woglinde |
| 22:02.32 | Stephmw | abraxa_: np - so, will we just get a 80x25 console with ascii-art cover + some text? |
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| 22:02.49 | mstevens | still no gsmd love :( |
| 22:03.05 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: I may be sadistic but I'm not *that* mean ;) |
| 22:03.29 | Stephmw | abraxa_: oh. so 160x25 then? |
| 22:03.34 | Stephmw | .. rotated |
| 22:05.12 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: My idea is as follows: all three labels will be configurable ? la XMMS and the cover art can be hidden. If a video is playing the cover art placeholder will be used for the preview, while label #3 (the one below the top bar) will hold the title - I think it's a good compromise |
| 22:06.17 | Stephmw | abraxa_: it sounds good - and there's always v0.0.2 around the corner for any changes :) |
| 22:06.38 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Actually, SVN makes it 0.1.0 already ;) |
| 22:08.07 | Stephmw | details :D |
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| 22:45.46 | bumkus | anyone have a second to help with an interface/rootfs question? |
| 22:50.45 | abraxa_ | bumkus: It's usually best to just ask - if someone can answer, he/she will ;) |
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| 22:53.55 | bumkus | I'm trying to get my OpenMoko phone upgraded to a newer rootfs, and it stops responding while loading the graphic interface |
| 22:53.59 | bumkus | but i can still ssh into it |
| 22:54.25 | abraxa_ | bumkus: Does the orange bar go almost go to the end and is stuck there? |
| 22:54.31 | bumkus | yes |
| 22:56.52 | abraxa_ | bumkus: You might be experiencing http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 22:58.33 | bumkus | need to remove the "console=ttySAC0,115200" - am I reading that right? |
| 22:59.24 | abraxa_ | bumkus: That's one way, yep - assuming you don't need that port for the debug board |
| 22:59.50 | bumkus | i am barely linux competent to get the fs flashed. no debugging for me. |
| 23:00.09 | bumkus | thanks for your help! |
| 23:00.14 | abraxa_ | Anytime |
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| 23:09.35 | bumkus | is there a uBoot image that already has the console fix in it? |
| 23:10.45 | abraxa_ | Nope, as that would interfere with debug board usage |
| 23:12.03 | bumkus | cu doesn't like connecting to the usb console - i keep getting port in use |
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| 23:25.34 | CoreDump | qtopia sure looks nice |
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| 23:34.39 | gamin | on the wiki I read somewhere that building openmoko takes 2 hours - is that on a Cray? ;-( |
| 23:35.23 | gamin | after 3 hours am at task 488 of 4847... |
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| 23:36.06 | Writchie | 2 hours on a "gibson" |
| 23:36.32 | gamin | what's a gibson?? |
| 23:36.37 | Writchie | it takes about 6 - 8 hours. or about 24 hours in a vmware virtual machine |
| 23:36.48 | Writchie | gamin: from the movie "hackers" |
| 23:36.57 | Writchie | gamin: not real |
| 23:37.27 | gamin | oh. obvious lack of education :) |
| 23:37.55 | Writchie | anjelina jolie as a teenager |
| 23:38.02 | |R | err gibson |
| 23:38.17 | Writchie | i'd rather have an angelina |
| 23:38.27 | gamin | glibc took forever - all the locales... |
| 23:38.29 | |R | Does it have wifi? |
| 23:38.30 | |R | haha |
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