| 00:00.05 | Ghiottone | anything else? |
| 00:03.21 | kristian-m | hi Ghiottone |
| 00:04.38 | kristian-m | Ghiottone what's so bad about using libc? |
| 00:05.12 | Ghiottone | hey kristian-m |
| 00:05.27 | Ghiottone | I've put the bootchart you asked on my wiki page |
| 00:05.39 | kristian-m | Ghiottone you could use sys/dir.h |
| 00:05.41 | Ghiottone | I'd prefer not to use any malloc calloc etch |
| 00:05.55 | kristian-m | Ghiottone ah thanks :-) |
| 00:06.29 | kristian-m | Ghiottone oh i see - we've also had problems with malloc stuff using arm7 |
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| 00:06.48 | Ghiottone | not problems, just for efficiency |
| 00:08.52 | kristian-m | Ghiottone i wonder why pulsoaudio kills 5 seconds of bootup time... |
| 00:09.23 | kristian-m | btw the usb-net driver seems to take several seconds while kernel is still booting... |
| 00:11.44 | Ghiottone | not linux os I guess? |
| 00:13.00 | kristian-m | Ghiottone symbian i guess |
| 00:13.07 | kristian-m | Ghiottone but still |
| 00:13.55 | Ghiottone | yeah we are really far |
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| 00:17.06 | kristian-m | an other problem is jffs - i hear it's imperfect - and you can see that it takes some seconds of cpu on bootup. - another one seems to be the sleep before gsmd starts |
| 00:17.08 | dkr | Ghiottone: perhaps just open(), read() and parse the directory entries yourself? e.g. ext3_dir_entry_2 struct tells you what the bytes are for ext3 |
| 00:17.50 | _alcik_ | hi all... |
| 00:17.58 | mwester | We can remove the sleeps in /etc/init.d/gsmd -- they do nothing at all anymore. |
| 00:18.00 | cesarb | kristian-m: jffs simply scans the whole flash. It isn't that slow. |
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| 00:18.48 | kristian-m | cesarb why would it have to scan the whole flash though? |
| 00:18.57 | _alcik_ | can anyone tell me is it possible to update only specific ipkg packages? |
| 00:19.04 | mwester | Yes |
| 00:19.17 | cesarb | kristian-m: to know the most recent version of each inode |
| 00:19.34 | cesarb | kristian-m: if I'm recalling things correctly, jffs2 is sort of log-structured |
| 00:19.42 | Ghiottone | kristian-m, IIRC jffs2 have to build a tree of the disk contents at mount time. plus it is compressed |
| 00:20.06 | _alcik_ | mwester how? I culdnt find the way so far... there is nothing in --help that suggests it is possible.. |
| 00:20.28 | Ghiottone | _alcik_, just ipkg install the package you want upgraded |
| 00:20.28 | kristian-m | hmmkay, so nothing to do about that |
| 00:20.39 | mwester | ipkg install <packagename.ipk> |
| 00:20.51 | Ghiottone | kristian-m, yes. switch to yaffs |
| 00:20.58 | cesarb | kristian-m: jffs2 cannot simply use a fixed-places structure like ext* does, because that'd wear down the flash blocks too fast (it does its own wear leveling, instead of depending on a wear leveling layer) |
| 00:20.59 | mwester | if you have the package on disk, otherwise just ipkg install <packagename> |
| 00:21.06 | Ghiottone | kristian-m, whitch I think is in the works |
| 00:21.35 | _alcik_ | mwester but I just want to update some already installed packages... |
| 00:21.37 | kristian-m | Ghiottone nice |
| 00:21.40 | kristian-m | cesarb same here |
| 00:22.00 | Ghiottone | I got interested in yaffs a bit ago and wanted to try |
| 00:22.05 | mwester | _alcik_: Ok. Same deal, just ipkg update <packagename> |
| 00:22.49 | Ghiottone | _alcik_, if the package is already installed, ipkg install it will upgrade if there is a new version or else do nothing |
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| 00:23.16 | cesarb | Ghiottone: hm, it seems it's a specific feature of YAFFS2 which allows the fast boot times, and that needs a specific kind of NAND... I don't recall if neo's acts that way |
| 00:23.21 | Ghiottone | kristian-m, cesarb but someone on this channel convinced me that it is not a good idea without a debug board |
| 00:23.45 | _alcik_ | OK... can I use wildcards, f.e. ipkg update kernel-mod\* |
| 00:24.00 | Ghiottone | cesarb, yaffs has been created for nand fs iirc |
| 00:24.01 | mwester | _alcik_: Yes. But the command is "ipkg upgrade", not update -- I told you wrong. |
| 00:24.02 | _alcik_ | it seems that this doesnt work |
| 00:24.32 | Ghiottone | cesarb, so that should suit. I've seen it in commit mails, so probably it will be in gta02 |
| 00:24.32 | cesarb | Ghiottone: I don't see the problem with changing the filesystem without a debug board, since only the kernel has to know how to read it, not uboot. However, |
| 00:24.34 | mwester | ipkg is a dangerous way to "upgrade" your kernel modules |
| 00:25.16 | cesarb | it's possible yaffs2 would have to be changed to work with the neo's badblock scheme (it uses a badblock table in the four "fake bad blocks" at the end of the flash) |
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| 00:25.40 | mwester | What have you done that you need to use ipkg to upgrade your kernel modules? Since they must match your kernel precisely, either a) there's nothing to upgrade, b) upgrading will result in the unit failing next boot unless you reflash a new kernel. |
| 00:25.58 | Ghiottone | there is also a device wear leveling layer in the works I think |
| 00:26.37 | mwester | nothing if you know to do that. |
| 00:26.41 | Ghiottone | which is why this change is quite dangerous |
| 00:26.43 | cesarb | Ghiottone: a wear leveling layer would confuse filesystems which want to do their own wear leveling (like most flash-specific ones) |
| 00:27.02 | cesarb | Ghiottone: a wear-leveling layer makes most sense if you want to use "traditional" (disk-targetted) filesystems |
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| 00:27.21 | Ghiottone | filesystem won't do it anymore, as the underlying layer will take care of it |
| 00:27.40 | Ghiottone | also the layer can be applied to the whole device, not just a single partition |
| 00:27.54 | kristian-m | cesarb yea yaffs2 seems to be quiet cool |
| 00:28.09 | _alcik_ | mwester I have installed qtopia on my SD card and it works only with newest kernel but has only old modules in their rootfs |
| 00:29.32 | _alcik_ | so if I want to have sound and bluetooth working I have to upgrade my modules... |
| 00:29.37 | kristian-m | Ghiottone sounds nice :-) lets cross fingers it will get done |
| 00:29.53 | kristian-m | okay, night see you next week |
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| 00:30.00 | mwester | Ok. You may have trouble with that, as in order to upgrade the modules, you would have to boot up to that rootfs. There might be some ipkg options to target the files elsewhere, but that would get tricky with depmod and such. |
| 00:30.27 | mwester | You could just copy them from your jffs2 rootfs to the SD rootfs. |
| 00:30.34 | Ghiottone | mmm where are the channel logs again?? |
| 00:30.45 | Ghiottone | nite kristian-m |
| 00:31.22 | _alcik_ | mwester how to mount jffs2 when booted from SD card ? |
| 00:31.36 | Ghiottone | I also think that yaffs won't be applied on gta01 as an article I found stated that gain from jffs2 has a meaning for flash memories > 128MB |
| 00:31.42 | _alcik_ | what device it is? |
| 00:32.37 | cesarb | _alcik_: one of the mtdblock devices |
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| 00:33.01 | cesarb | _alcik_: probably the fifth one (the largest one if you know how to find their sizes in /proc of dmesg) |
| 00:33.07 | cesarb | _alcik_: also the last one IIRC |
| 00:33.30 | cesarb | _alcik_: or boot from the nand and copy the other way ;-) |
| 00:35.14 | _alcik_ | cesarb: :-) this can be simplest way... but jut coping modules will be enough? |
| 00:36.11 | cesarb | _alcik_: the whole /lib/modules/<version> tree |
| 00:36.37 | cesarb | _alcik_: that and the initrd (if used -- the neo doesn't) must match the running kernel |
| 00:37.03 | cesarb | _alcik_: it will automatically look for modules in /lib/modules/`uname -r` |
| 00:37.55 | _alcik_ | cesarb, mwester OK big thanks... I'll try it imediatly |
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| 01:05.34 | sagacis | Moin |
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| 01:44.50 | sagacis | Everybody's at the pubs? |
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| 01:45.33 | sagacis | mwester, if you're still here, my gsm crashed today and I've still not reconnected. :( |
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| 01:46.19 | mwester | But I didn't fix anything related to long-term stability, or recoverability -- I've just been working on making it start and talk to the modem reliably. :) |
| 01:46.28 | sagacis | cool. |
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| 01:46.39 | sagacis | Although I couldn't reboot and get it to connect |
| 01:47.12 | sagacis | I think I need more logging. I haven't looked at the log today because I left the battery in too long, but when the boot happens, I'll take a look. |
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| 02:04.29 | Ghiottone | nite all |
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| 02:09.17 | orzo9 | i need a name for a music player/remote ap for the neo |
| 02:11.13 | orzo | (still here) |
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| 02:11.30 | roh | neomote? |
| 02:11.33 | roh | *ducks* |
| 02:12.05 | orzo | neomote turns up google hits |
| 02:12.06 | orzo | what is it? |
| 02:12.19 | roh | dunno.. just thought that word up |
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| 02:13.51 | orzo | initial release will have it hard coded to be a player rather than a remote |
| 02:13.52 | orzo | heh |
| 02:13.58 | orzo | its trivial to change that tho |
| 02:16.55 | orzo | damb |
| 02:17.12 | orzo | just dicoverd shit on the bottom of my shoe |
| 02:17.16 | juri_ | i'm sure you could adopt a wiimote to a neo... |
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| 02:20.57 | silentpyjamas | hi, i'm totally new but i think openmoko is very exciting. i don't code anything but i suppose i could learn. in any case where is a good place to start getting involved or getting a clue? |
| 02:20.57 | aloril | silentpyjamas: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:20.58 | sagacis | mwester: Finally got enough juice in the battery to boot. +CFUN=1 returns '+EXT ERROR: 5' |
| 02:21.43 | silentpyjamas | thank you |
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| 02:39.25 | sagacis | OK, after reading bitbake/quilt manuals for days, I am left with two options. Beg for help or drink lots of alcohol. |
| 02:39.33 | sagacis | Note, these are not mutually exclusive options. |
| 02:40.10 | sagacis | I have a patch, reported as "applied" by quilt. I run "bitbake foo -f -c rebuild"... |
| 02:40.32 | orospakr | Hey, how will the Embedded EDS PIM apps on an OpenMoko ophone get "synced" with the larger PIM software (let's say, full Evolution) on a PC? |
| 02:40.33 | sagacis | I see "do_patch completed", but the code in build/tmp/work/... does not have the patch applied |
| 02:40.39 | orospakr | s/ophone/phone/ |
| 02:44.04 | orospakr | hm, looks like it will be http://pimlico-project.org . |
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| 02:47.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] |
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| 02:56.42 | |R | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:56.46 | |R | arfgh :P |
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| 03:03.34 | mwester | sagacis: So you manually patch the code, then rebuild the package, and the patch is gone? |
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| 03:06.57 | orzo | i'm gona use the name neomote |
| 03:06.57 | orzo | heh |
| 03:07.52 | sagacis | mwester: No, I manually patch the code, and rebuild gets new code from svn, ignoring my nice, pretty patches.. |
| 03:08.14 | mwester | Yep, that's what it's supposed to do. Neat, huh? |
| 03:08.19 | sagacis | Neet. |
| 03:08.32 | sagacis | s/Neet/Neat/ |
| 03:08.32 | mwester | Patch the code. |
| 03:09.10 | sagacis | Patch the code? |
| 03:09.13 | mwester | locate the file tmp/stamps/<whatever>/<packagename>_do_compile_<timestamp_or_something> |
| 03:09.20 | mwester | delete the timestamp file |
| 03:09.31 | mwester | then do your ordinary "bitbake <packagename>" |
| 03:10.12 | sagacis | OK. I'll try that. That step's missing from the wiki. |
| 03:10.15 | mwester | bitbake will think it already did the download, and patch steps, leave your modifications alone, and pick up the build, stage, and packaging steps. |
| 03:10.35 | mwester | Oh, that's not a "sanctioned" way to use bitbake. |
| 03:10.46 | mwester | Just the way it works for me. |
| 03:10.53 | cesarb | (which, btw, _is_ a "sanctioned" way to use bitbake afaik) |
| 03:10.56 | sagacis | I couldn't get the overlay working right, either, but it could be the gin... |
| 03:11.08 | mwester | cesarb's approach works very well, esp. for large changes. |
| 03:11.20 | sagacis | cesarb: I don't think so. Koen exploded over the concept of the overlay, but I think the overlay's a great way to go |
| 03:11.34 | mwester | But I usually work with a patch here and a tweak there, and often expect to commit my work, so working in place for me is best. |
| 03:11.55 | cesarb | sagacis: if you were using the "crash course" page, it's for 2007.1; for 2007.2 look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay |
| 03:12.00 | mwester | Gin will give you a bad headache. |
| 03:13.41 | sagacis | Oh! |
| 03:13.48 | sagacis | That would probably help. Heh. |
| 03:14.17 | abraxa_ | sagacis: Speaking of which... I haven't seen Koen in here for ages. Did OpenMoko upset him too much? |
| 03:14.19 | sagacis | Gin shouldn't give too bad a headache, if it's good gin. |
| 03:14.35 | sagacis | Dunno. Maybe he's on vacation like the rest of the core devs |
| 03:14.58 | abraxa_ | Koen isn't a core dev, though. Oh well |
| 03:15.27 | sagacis | Oh, right. |
| 03:15.33 | sagacis | He's an OE dev, tho |
| 03:15.37 | abraxa_ | Yeah |
| 03:15.47 | abraxa_ | And quite an angry one at that, it seems :) |
| 03:16.10 | pjz | what's he angry at? |
| 03:16.24 | sagacis | most things. He's likely very talented. |
| 03:16.44 | sagacis | NOTE: Tasks Summary: Attempted 736 tasks of which 736 didn't need to be rerun and 0 failed. |
| 03:16.50 | sagacis | Why doesn't it build? |
| 03:17.13 | pjz | it thinks it didn't need to |
| 03:17.53 | sagacis | grrr |
| 03:18.55 | sagacis | OK, so quilt is applying changes to the openmoko/trunk/src/... path. The code that is compiled is in build/tmp/work/... path. How should the patched code get from trunk to work? |
| 03:19.23 | sagacis | Perhaps I shouldn't be changing code in openmoko/... ? |
| 03:19.39 | abraxa_ | sagacis: That's my assumtion as OpenMoko no longer uses an OE overlay |
| 03:19.43 | abraxa_ | +p |
| 03:19.49 | sagacis | ah |
| 03:20.03 | sagacis | Where should I be changing? work? |
| 03:20.44 | abraxa_ | That's what I do. Change the source in work, delete the do_compile stamp and do a bitbake -f -c compile foo |
| 03:20.45 | juri_ | http://xkcd.com/322/ |
| 03:21.40 | abraxa_ | sagacis: It certainly isn't a "sane" nor "accepted" way of doing this but it works for me and I don't have the time to deal with OE :) |
| 03:22.35 | sagacis | OK. I wish OE could just tell us what they want. There's nothing "open" about developing on OpenEmbedded. |
| 03:23.03 | sagacis | I hope I haven't lost all my changes. It would be the fourth time I've put them in. |
| 03:23.21 | sagacis | If I wasn't equally frustrated with VS2005 at work, I'd be really mad. |
| 03:23.48 | abraxa_ | VS2005... my condolences. |
| 03:24.34 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 03:24.47 | sagacis | It decided one day last week to rename one of our 257 projects in the solution, thereby breaking EVERYTHING. We've taken man-weeks to sort it out. In the end, one of the devs broke down and touched each and every project file to correct the references. |
| 03:25.00 | juri_ | trade you visual foxpro. ;) |
| 03:25.07 | sagacis | Ouch! You win. |
| 03:25.14 | sagacis | No foxpro for me!!!! |
| 03:25.23 | abraxa_ | What's so bad about foxpro? |
| 03:25.33 | juri_ | the programmers who use it. ;) |
| 03:25.42 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 03:25.50 | abraxa_ | Does that include you or not? |
| 03:25.59 | juri_ | no, i replaced him. :P |
| 03:26.09 | abraxa_ | hehe okay |
| 03:26.30 | abraxa_ | Just wondering cause you do hang out in a dev channel so I figured you'd be a programmer, too ;) |
| 03:26.53 | SpeedEvil | My IDE design uses autostereograms. |
| 03:27.49 | juri_ | i program in C/C++/bash/tintin++/... well, just about everything. :P |
| 03:27.58 | cesarb | hm... "Dialer: error setting antenna power" (due to no SIM being inserted, as the log shows) |
| 03:28.08 | cesarb | It *is* getting more reliable, at last :D |
| 03:29.41 | mwester | At least this time it has a *reason* to fail... |
| 03:30.44 | juri_ | i get the same error, even tho theres a sim in mine. |
| 03:31.09 | juri_ | even with a working sim, i can dial. |
| 03:31.13 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: ah, since you know way more about batteries and chargers and stuff, could you take a quick look at bug 891 (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=891 <- quick link) and check that I'm not spewing nonsense? |
| 03:32.14 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
| 03:33.33 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: something like that. |
| 03:34.13 | SpeedEvil | If below X volts - turn off immediately and set RTC alarm for several minutes in the future. |
| 03:34.54 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, the right solution is moderately non-trivial. |
| 03:35.25 | SpeedEvil | And involves putting enough smarts to query the USB bus. |
| 03:35.31 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: isn't it a Simple Matter Of Programming? |
| 03:35.33 | SpeedEvil | Into uboot |
| 03:35.55 | SpeedEvil | The right way is a simple matter of hardware. |
| 03:37.36 | sagacis | Yeah, software's free! |
| 03:38.48 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: well, but with what we have, we must put two extra behaviours into uboot's first page... one to check for "charger connected"&&"battery voltage critical" (is battery voltage reliable enough even with a charger connected?) and poll for enough voltage before enabling the RAM |
| 03:39.16 | mwester | Time for another full build. |
| 03:39.17 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: and the other to check, when directed to by the kernel, for USB status... (this is will probably be harder) |
| 03:40.10 | cesarb | Yay, a missed call returns to the *dialer* screen instead of today's |
| 03:40.18 | cesarb | You don't even have to try to find new bugs |
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| 03:48.32 | sagacis | target-rich environment |
| 03:49.13 | sagacis | I thought quilt is pwd agnostic. Not true, right? |
| 03:50.28 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@195.sub-70-211-181.myvzw.com) |
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| 03:56.04 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
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| 04:06.26 | sagacis | I give up. Maybe tomorrow I can compile a stupid patch. It's like I don't exist. |
| 04:10.09 | sagacis | Argh! I'm working on the wrong revision! |
| 04:12.57 | pjz | heh |
| 04:13.02 | pjz | ouch |
| 04:13.24 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1096745422.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:17.09 | sagacis | Yay! I got a compiler error (expected)! |
| 04:17.33 | sagacis | I spent the last three days writing code in the WRONG revision. Ugh! |
| 04:17.51 | sagacis | There are four or five revisions of neod on my system, in different paths. |
| 04:17.53 | abraxa_ | 2007.1 instead of 2007.2? |
| 04:17.56 | abraxa_ | Oh |
| 04:18.07 | sagacis | Probably .1, to boot. |
| 04:20.02 | sagacis | Yay! Compile successfull. |
| 04:20.09 | sagacis | Now, to package and try out. |
| 04:24.04 | abraxa_ | hehe |
| 04:24.16 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D84EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:24.21 | sagacis | I'm vibrating. Which is what my little tiny change is supposed to do. |
| 04:24.43 | abraxa_ | ...turning your neo into a sex toy? ;) |
| 04:25.04 | sagacis | lol... Not really. Force feedback for touchscreen. |
| 04:25.08 | abraxa_ | ahh hehe |
| 04:27.55 | dotmef | anyone know of another OpenMoko wiki out there? something that's not wiki.openmoko.org |
| 04:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:35.51 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-074-236-102-092.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:36.16 | orzo | i cant get ipkg update to work |
| 04:36.38 | orzo | I get error 404 not found |
| 04:41.55 | sagacis | orzo: do you have an /etc/resolv.conf? |
| 04:43.21 | orzo | ya i can ping google.com |
| 04:43.42 | orzo | the servers are responding. They are just responding with 404 not found |
| 04:43.56 | orzo | Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/Packages.gz |
| 04:44.07 | orzo | that is the first it tries and fails |
| 04:47.49 | sagacis | My ipkg .conf files have been redirected to different places. I think that server's down. |
| 04:50.50 | *** join/#openmoko andy_t (n=andrew@122-57-23-245.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 04:54.49 | orzo | hm |
| 04:55.18 | orzo | i think my system is borked now |
| 04:55.29 | orzo | ls doesnt work because it has the wrong version of libc |
| 04:56.04 | sagacis | ouch |
| 05:01.00 | |R | apt-get install sash |
| 05:01.34 | mwester | orzo: sounds like you attempted to upgrade too far... |
| 05:01.34 | |R | sometimes a life saver when everything dies :) |
| 05:02.09 | |R | (oh on the moko?) |
| 05:04.16 | orzo | i made a new ssh session into it, and that one can run comadns like ls |
| 05:04.30 | orzo | yes, on the moko |
| 05:04.36 | mwester | So busybox is ok then... |
| 05:09.27 | orzo | how do i restart x on the moko? |
| 05:10.01 | mwester | /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart |
| 05:10.26 | orzo | oh |
| 05:10.29 | orzo | ssh failed |
| 05:10.37 | orzo | i didnt realize |
| 05:10.49 | orzo | ls was working on the other computer |
| 05:11.07 | orzo | so it is borked |
| 05:11.16 | orzo | so how do i recover? |
| 05:11.22 | orzo | do i have to reflash everything? |
| 05:11.24 | mwester | reflash |
| 05:11.59 | mwester | If you can boot to the SD card, you can copy in the original libc, if you have another copy of it. |
| 05:12.30 | mwester | libc hasn't been upgraded since 2007.1, I think -- was your firmware that old? |
| 05:13.01 | orzo | i dont know |
| 05:13.21 | orzo | i flashed it with recent firmware when i first got the phone |
| 05:13.32 | orzo | and never since |
| 05:13.38 | orzo | nor any upgrades since |
| 05:16.17 | mwester | Well then there's really no point in rescuing it, unless you have unrecoverable data on the flash. |
| 05:16.47 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 05:17.52 | orzo | not unrecoverable, perhaps not so conveniently recoverable |
| 05:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 05:27.16 | orzo | i cant seem to shut it off now |
| 05:29.42 | orzo | boots into kernel panic now |
| 05:29.48 | orzo | guess i'll reflash |
| 05:30.26 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@adsl-dyn161.91-127-59.t-com.sk) |
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| 05:35.42 | bedboi | hi there |
| 05:35.53 | sagacis | G'day |
| 05:37.31 | bedboi | it's actually night here, i'll take it for tomorrow |
| 05:37.42 | sagacis | ~uct |
| 05:37.45 | bedboi | ok |
| 05:37.46 | sagacis | hmm... |
| 05:37.58 | sagacis | It's very late here. |
| 05:38.59 | orzo | I cadn't tell what the latest is |
| 05:39.11 | orzo | also i see files called OpenMoko-openmoko- |
| 05:39.40 | orzo | I thought it wasn't supposed to be OpenMoko, but just Openmoko |
| 05:40.18 | sagacis | latest should be symlinked to "openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2" |
| 05:41.01 | orzo | ok |
| 05:48.03 | sagacis | It's late. G'night! |
| 05:54.20 | *** join/#openmoko icman__ (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
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| 06:29.58 | orzo | i flashed and now usb networking doesnt seem to work |
| 06:30.06 | orzo | and it doesnt seem to start x automatically |
| 06:38.03 | |R | http://openmoko.com/products-neo-base-01-pictures.html <- Isn't the guy who invented the cell phone named Martin and not Marty ? (according to wikipedia at least :P) |
| 06:39.20 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
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| 06:50.43 | *** part/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-074-236-102-092.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 07:20.00 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
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| 07:33.15 | orzo | what are the lowlevel image files? do i need them? |
| 07:42.05 | CVirus | WTF !!! Neo1973 not in the market yet !!! |
| 07:42.09 | CVirus | :-p |
| 07:44.01 | CVirus | I have a question ... when the Ne01973 is released in december and I buy it ... What if -after using it for sometime- any of the hardware components is not functioning properly |
| 07:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko bertmatic (n=alberto@adsl150-142.aknet.it) |
| 07:44.36 | cjb_ie | you mean if the hardware dies? |
| 07:44.52 | CVirus | maybe |
| 07:45.31 | CVirus | I mean normal mobile phones have maintenance shops everywhere |
| 07:45.40 | CVirus | but the Neo1973 is new to my country's market |
| 07:45.46 | CVirus | and no one except me would buy it |
| 07:45.58 | CVirus | we don't have open source awareness here |
| 07:46.39 | cjb_ie | well i think the hope is that it will be sold just like other phones by december 2008 |
| 07:46.51 | cjb_ie | through phone shops, with contracts, etc. |
| 07:46.56 | CVirus | not in Egypt :-) |
| 07:48.02 | cjb_ie | and the other hope is that neo1973 won't be the only phone running openmoko by then. |
| 07:49.34 | CVirus | our market is invaded by nokia |
| 07:49.39 | CVirus | stupid country |
| 07:50.31 | CVirus | one way or another .. I'm getting the Neo1973 |
| 07:51.39 | cjb_ie | CVirus: there are worse phones to be invaded by :) |
| 07:51.46 | CVirus | hehe |
| 07:52.57 | CVirus | I wonder how are you people waiting till december |
| 07:53.06 | CVirus | I can't believe I can hang on |
| 07:54.03 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin__ (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-104-196.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:54.35 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 08:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky_ (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 08:02.35 | CVirus | Where are the Neo1973 production factories ? |
| 08:03.45 | abraxa_ | CVirus: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/15/#20070615-gta01-factory-trip |
| 08:06.16 | CVirus | abraxa_: thanks |
| 08:07.16 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484ECFE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:13.09 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@rn083002.morris.umn.edu) |
| 08:13.55 | CVirus | I guess I have to stop staring at those lovely Neo pictures |
| 08:14.37 | abraxa_ | Why? |
| 08:21.46 | *** join/#openmoko t3soro (n=roflcopt@pcp039403pcs.sm2-3.reshall.calpoly.edu) |
| 08:24.02 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin__ (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-104-196.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:25.10 | *** part/#openmoko t3soro (n=roflcopt@pcp039403pcs.sm2-3.reshall.calpoly.edu) |
| 08:35.45 | *** join/#openmoko roussse (n=ircap8@62.117.143.207.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 08:36.41 | *** part/#openmoko roussse (n=ircap8@62.117.143.207.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 08:38.24 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:38.24 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@AC8EE5E1.ipt.aol.com) |
| 08:46.30 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:46.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Digital_gaming]] [[Current_events]] [[FreeBSD]] |
| 08:47.49 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 09:03.35 | *** part/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-074-236-102-092.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 09:05.00 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-250-110.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 09:17.26 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 09:20.36 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:22.21 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:23.38 | rwhitby | openmoko builds again |
| 09:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 09:31.16 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=fredsiba@p5495211E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:33.34 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485EC3C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:39.23 | ScaredyCat | is libdsl fixed in the feed / |
| 09:39.25 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 09:40.00 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5461F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:40.29 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
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| 09:56.16 | emdete | any scummvm-gurus around? i remember having a simple kbd on the bottom on my 910i to play with a touchscreen - how can i switch that on on the neo? |
| 09:59.41 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve87 (n=fradeve@87.18.31.157) |
| 10:00.30 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@p4FD67E1F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:17.25 | Shoragan | rwhitby, have you done remote debugging via jtag yet? |
| 10:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF965.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko Lpotter-n800 (n=user@c210-49-127-23.rochd1.qld.optusnet.com.au) |
| 10:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@cable-vrk-fe5cdd00-177.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:24.59 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@dslb-088-068-206-134.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 10:33.00 | rwhitby | Shoragan: no |
| 10:33.08 | rwhitby | just devirginating |
| 10:33.15 | Shoragan | ah |
| 10:33.21 | rwhitby | (and reflashing on nslu2 by jtag) |
| 10:35.39 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 10:35.51 | *** join/#openmoko bja (n=bja@c83-250-145-245.bredband.comhem.se) |
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| 10:40.49 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@BSN-210-209-18.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 10:41.54 | polz | has anyone else been having problems with dbus lately... |
| 10:42.02 | polz | or is that just me ? |
| 10:43.22 | polz | I'm getting Failed to open connection to session message bus: Failed to execute dbus-launch to autolaunch D-Bus session |
| 10:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko IfChinsCouldKill (n=ifchinsc@pD955CC1C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:43.45 | polz | every time I try to run any ap which uses dbus |
| 10:43.58 | polz | ap -> application |
| 10:46.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FreeBSD]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 10:51.12 | *** join/#openmoko bextro (n=bextro@pD95FDF75.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:51.59 | *** join/#openmoko bextro_ (n=bextro@pD95FD67A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:55.20 | *** join/#openmoko philippe_bud (n=phil@dsl54007654.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 10:56.07 | *** join/#openmoko thomasgruebler (n=thomasgr@85-124-167-249.work.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 10:56.16 | thomasgruebler | hello |
| 10:56.27 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:56.56 | emdete | polz: yes, i have that too, i start it by hand before starting any app |
| 10:58.16 | thomasgruebler | is there any way to get the phone a bit cheaper? because i'm 16 and don't have so much money as the new version would cost. |
| 10:58.28 | thomasgruebler | i can make advertisement on my homepage. |
| 10:58.42 | thomasgruebler | ... |
| 10:59.53 | thomasgruebler | i have no time for building apps for it until july 2008. because there are some robot competitions. maybe i will use the phone on my robot with the cam, opencv lib for finding things. |
| 11:00.25 | tuukkah | thomasgruebler, could you perhaps ask your parents to lease you one, or get you one as a christmas present? |
| 11:00.50 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:01.06 | thomasgruebler | i'm not sure because i already got a new laptop for birthday. |
| 11:01.09 | Shoragan | thomas, the phone has no camera, so you'll need an external webcam |
| 11:01.12 | thomasgruebler | lenovo thinkpad |
| 11:01.43 | thomasgruebler | yes but the end version that will come out in december has one. (i read it) |
| 11:01.52 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@60.53.4.35) |
| 11:01.53 | Shoragan | no, it has no camera |
| 11:02.23 | thomasgruebler | ok |
| 11:02.26 | thomasgruebler | so why not? |
| 11:02.37 | thomasgruebler | will it be cheaper than? |
| 11:02.43 | thomasgruebler | then |
| 11:02.47 | Shoragan | because that would make a case change necessary, and that would be expensive |
| 11:02.50 | Shoragan | no |
| 11:03.11 | Shoragan | that it will have a camera was a false rumour. |
| 11:03.41 | thomasgruebler | ok |
| 11:03.47 | tuukkah | but i think you should be able to attach a usb camera |
| 11:03.48 | thomasgruebler | but wlan |
| 11:04.02 | thomasgruebler | ? |
| 11:04.07 | thomasgruebler | usb cam is also ok |
| 11:04.16 | tuukkah | yes, see for example here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison |
| 11:04.20 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A5461F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:04.21 | thomasgruebler | then i can maybe choose one that has more than 25 frames/second |
| 11:05.08 | Shoragan | does opencv use floating point math? |
| 11:05.31 | thomasgruebler | i don't know |
| 11:05.35 | thomasgruebler | i never used it |
| 11:05.42 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-185.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:05.44 | thomasgruebler | i currently learn c++ |
| 11:05.51 | thomasgruebler | bevore i start this |
| 11:05.52 | tuukkah | thomasgruebler, someone like roh might be able to tell you whether it could be reasonable for you to propose openmoko or fic to sponsor your robot |
| 11:06.01 | thomasgruebler | really |
| 11:06.06 | thomasgruebler | that would be cool |
| 11:06.34 | tuukkah | as far as i know, they want to encourage hardware hacking |
| 11:06.46 | thomasgruebler | super |
| 11:07.03 | *** join/#openmoko polz_ (n=polz@BSN-165-127-147.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 11:07.09 | thomasgruebler | may you give me roh's emal adress? |
| 11:07.43 | tuukkah | i don't know it but he's here on the channel |
| 11:08.49 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 11:08.52 | thomasgruebler | is it allowed to write private msg's |
| 11:08.53 | thomasgruebler | ? |
| 11:09.26 | tuukkah | well, you need to be registered on freenode at least |
| 11:09.26 | SpeedEvil | I imagine so - I've never heard it said you can't. |
| 11:09.42 | SpeedEvil | yes, you need to be registered. |
| 11:09.43 | cb22 | thomasgruebler, i'm 16 too, its no excuse :) |
| 11:10.03 | thomasgruebler | i think i'm registered. but it should be unpolite to do it |
| 11:10.03 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:10.19 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 11:10.43 | thomasgruebler | konversation does it automaticly so i'm not sure |
| 11:10.48 | tuukkah | cb22, now a pissing contest on which one of you is a more spoiled child to have internet and all ;-D |
| 11:10.50 | thomasgruebler | lunch |
| 11:10.51 | thomasgruebler | bye |
| 11:12.09 | *** join/#openmoko bextro_ (n=bextro@pD95FEF7E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:12.09 | cb22 | and thats after buying a bluetooth keyboard and a 4gb microsd for it |
| 11:14.01 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@3e70c934.adsl.enternet.hu) |
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| 11:19.25 | *** part/#openmoko bertmatic (n=alberto@adsl150-142.aknet.it) |
| 11:20.03 | cb22 | tuukkah, i would, but ping me :) |
| 11:20.03 | cb22 | my ping is something like 30 seconds O-o |
| 11:22.11 | tuukkah | i see 3.5 seconds, not nice. i have daily quota of 1GB, also not nice |
| 11:22.46 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B1132C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:26.14 | thomasgruebler | i'm back |
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| 11:33.47 | cb22 | tuukkah, lol |
| 11:33.55 | cb22 | i have a monthly quota of 5gb |
| 11:34.37 | tuukkah | as a finnish student, i seem to have lost :-) |
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| 11:45.05 | winu1 | 现在的openmoko手机可以实现正常的电话功能了么？ |
| 11:46.30 | polz_ | winu1: ?? |
| 11:46.41 | pH5 | winu1: can you speak english? the current software works for calls, but it is still very buggy. |
| 11:46.45 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:50.36 | winu1 | oh, pH5,i know |
| 11:51.20 | pH5 | winu1: then I didn't understand the machine translation of your question :) |
| 11:51.54 | pH5 | ~x zh en 现在的openmoko手机可以实现正常的电话功能了么？ |
| 11:52.25 | winu1 | yes , as the apt tells |
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| 11:57.08 | winu1 | i see the openmoko full development set cost 450 $ , i wanna if i should pay for the postage ? |
| 11:59.15 | polz_ | winu1: you only need the development set if you want to be able to modify the hardware |
| 11:59.32 | polz_ | winu1: the development kit includes an USB hub and JTAG adapter. |
| 11:59.46 | polz_ | winu1: you don't need that for software development |
| 12:00.05 | nbd | but it's very useful |
| 12:00.33 | polz | especially if you manage to erase the bootloader |
| 12:01.43 | winu1 | so if i wanna develop software for openmoko ,the base set is enough , right? |
| 12:02.19 | pH5 | winu1: certainly, yes. |
| 12:02.30 | winu1 | so i only need a usb hub |
| 12:03.01 | Jiten | actually, for developing you don't need to buy anything. your desktop computer is enough. You do need the kit for final testing though |
| 12:03.32 | pH5 | Jiten: and besides testing, the actual device is good for motivation, too ;) |
| 12:03.40 | Jiten | yeah, that too |
| 12:04.41 | Jiten | if your motivation depends on being able to use whatever you're making, it's crucial :) |
| 12:04.59 | winu1 | the base kit contain a phone and a usb hub , right? |
| 12:06.00 | Jiten | I don't recall seeing anything about usb hub in the list for base kit. |
| 12:07.25 | winu1 | if i wanna modify the system , is the openmoko base kit enough? |
| 12:08.35 | Jiten | software hacking -> base kit. hardware (and software) hacking -> advanced kit |
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| 12:26.12 | thomasgruebler | is it right that the new prozessor should be an ARM? |
| 12:26.38 | thomasgruebler | can i use every hardware of the arm? |
| 12:27.07 | thomasgruebler | i think there is analog/digital conversation, I²C, SPI, ... |
| 12:27.39 | tuukkah | did you read the wiki page? it tells you exactly which cpu it is |
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| 12:30.38 | SpeedEvil | you can't use all of the peripherals - some busses are not brought out. |
| 12:30.43 | SpeedEvil | and some are used |
| 12:31.42 | thomasgruebler | when i open it and connect a cable directly to the prozessor? |
| 12:31.59 | thomasgruebler | yes i read it but now i wanted to verify and didn't find the page again |
| 12:32.24 | drath | guess that's why there are development boards... |
| 12:32.34 | SpeedEvil | What do you want to do with it? |
| 12:33.16 | thomasgruebler | connecting to other hardware, sensors, microcontrollers (Atmel AVR)... |
| 12:33.29 | SpeedEvil | There is an exposed I2C and SPI bus |
| 12:33.32 | SpeedEvil | nothing parallel |
| 12:33.36 | tuukkah | ... to make a robot |
| 12:33.54 | SpeedEvil | USB is a good solution for that. |
| 12:34.03 | thomasgruebler | no. i need usb for a cam |
| 12:34.06 | *** join/#openmoko EMiP (n=gary@bb111.plus.com) |
| 12:34.18 | thomasgruebler | and not every microcontroller has a usb port. |
| 12:34.32 | thomasgruebler | and I2C would be a bus. thats better. |
| 12:34.34 | SpeedEvil | True, but USB micros are $3 |
| 12:34.37 | SpeedEvil | and hubs exist |
| 12:35.33 | drath | thomasgruebler: prpplague posted a link about this board: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board |
| 12:35.39 | thomasgruebler | my robot should stay small |
| 12:35.44 | drath | thomasgruebler: basically the same processor, but this is intended as a development board |
| 12:36.05 | SpeedEvil | That board is almost awesome. |
| 12:36.16 | thomasgruebler | no i wait for the later phone with 400MHz |
| 12:36.20 | SpeedEvil | If it supported low power modes, it'd be actually. |
| 12:36.28 | SpeedEvil | This is a $150 board |
| 12:36.34 | SpeedEvil | compared to a $450 phone. |
| 12:36.52 | SpeedEvil | And it's got the same parts. - apart from a screen as compared. |
| 12:36.59 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 12:37.33 | thomasgruebler | i'm currently searching for everthing i can get. but it must be fast 400MHz or much more |
| 12:38.52 | thomasgruebler | a phone would be also good because my current one has software bugs and a broken connector. |
| 12:38.56 | thomasgruebler | and i love linux |
| 12:39.49 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@rosine53.inf.fu-berlin.de) |
| 12:40.38 | SpeedEvil | Why must it be 400Mhz? |
| 12:40.56 | SpeedEvil | You do know that 400Mhz in a mobile processor is much slower than 400Mhz in a desktop? |
| 12:41.06 | thomasgruebler | really? |
| 12:41.10 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 12:41.18 | thomasgruebler | then i need much more |
| 12:41.20 | SpeedEvil | Less cache, one execution unit, rather than several. |
| 12:41.26 | SpeedEvil | Why do you? |
| 12:41.38 | thomasgruebler | opencv |
| 12:41.58 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 12:42.03 | thomasgruebler | finding red and blue pucks on a white playground by cam |
| 12:42.11 | thomasgruebler | driving to them |
| 12:42.16 | thomasgruebler | and bringing them to a homebase |
| 12:42.20 | SpeedEvil | That's not exactly a complex computing task. |
| 12:42.31 | SpeedEvil | When processing a 320*240 image or something. |
| 12:42.32 | thomasgruebler | but i want 30fps |
| 12:42.41 | thomasgruebler | that's the problem |
| 12:42.43 | thomasgruebler | fast |
| 12:43.02 | SpeedEvil | Your robot is going to react in 33ms? |
| 12:43.16 | SpeedEvil | What sort of servos have you got that can do that? |
| 12:43.28 | thomasgruebler | faulhaber motors |
| 12:43.40 | thomasgruebler | 1:8 gear, omniwheels |
| 12:43.45 | thomasgruebler | football |
| 12:43.59 | SpeedEvil | Also - USB1.1 camera - you won't get much resolution. |
| 12:44.02 | thomasgruebler | if it's possible a acceleration of 4-5m/s² |
| 12:44.10 | thomasgruebler | i don't need resolution |
| 12:44.11 | thomasgruebler | speed |
| 12:45.00 | thomasgruebler | i know people who have 60fps |
| 12:45.07 | thomasgruebler | but on strong servers |
| 12:46.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu/it]] |
| 12:46.39 | SpeedEvil | For simple machine vision tasks, where you're tracking something, not locating it every frame, things can get _lots_ simpler. |
| 12:46.59 | thomasgruebler | but i need every frame |
| 12:47.10 | SpeedEvil | No, you don't. |
| 12:47.12 | thomasgruebler | when i drive by full speed to the part |
| 12:47.25 | SpeedEvil | You need to only locate it within a small part of the frame. |
| 12:47.27 | thomasgruebler | then the robot should reach the correct place |
| 12:47.44 | thomasgruebler | the wheels could slip |
| 12:47.55 | SpeedEvil | it's not going to move dramatically and unexpectedly. |
| 12:48.05 | SpeedEvil | The better way to deal with that is an accelerometer |
| 12:48.15 | SpeedEvil | which will give you a direct read on wheelslip |
| 12:48.48 | thomasgruebler | yes i already plan to use it |
| 12:48.50 | SpeedEvil | Especially if you add a gyro. That would give you an exact heading. |
| 12:49.11 | SpeedEvil | To correct the track even faster than 30fps |
| 12:50.08 | thomasgruebler | mhm |
| 12:50.16 | thomasgruebler | do you know where i can find a gyro? |
| 12:50.50 | SpeedEvil | Ghiottone|http://www.sparkfun.org/ has some |
| 12:52.00 | thomasgruebler | the link is wrong |
| 12:52.07 | SpeedEvil | The basic point is - if the puck is not going to manoever, then if you know where it is - with relation to your robot chassis - from size, and position in the image, then it's not going to move. |
| 12:52.13 | SpeedEvil | sparkfun.com rather I think. |
| 12:52.27 | SpeedEvil | Rather - move round the frame unexpectedly. |
| 12:53.00 | SpeedEvil | If the wheel slips, the gyro tells you this, and yoy update where you're searching the image from. |
| 12:53.21 | thomasgruebler | are accelerometers in a gyro? |
| 12:53.28 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 12:53.36 | SpeedEvil | accelerometes measure accelleration. |
| 12:53.41 | SpeedEvil | gyros measure rotation. |
| 12:54.11 | thomasgruebler | ok |
| 12:54.42 | thomasgruebler | but then i think a gyro also needs a accelerometer to really calculate slipping |
| 12:55.00 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 12:55.04 | SpeedEvil | You've got two wheels? |
| 12:55.10 | SpeedEvil | Or two driving wheels. |
| 12:55.20 | SpeedEvil | If one slips, then you turn. |
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| 12:55.45 | SpeedEvil | If both slip, then you simply accellerate slower. |
| 12:55.54 | SpeedEvil | what the accelerometer could help with is traction control. |
| 12:56.07 | SpeedEvil | especially in combination with the gyro. |
| 12:57.09 | *** join/#openmoko Cmdr_Zod (n=peter@194.230.154.1) |
| 12:57.26 | Cmdr_Zod | hi |
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| 13:01.53 | thomasgruebler | hanks |
| 13:01.55 | thomasgruebler | thanks |
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| 13:12.11 | *** topic/#openmoko is The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update). |
| 13:12.33 | bl4d3 | hi all |
| 13:13.03 | thomasgruebler | hi |
| 13:13.38 | bl4d3 | yesterday I bought the phone :) |
| 13:14.35 | thomasgruebler | i thought there are no more phones avaiable? |
| 13:14.43 | cb22 | thomasgruebler, just use a usb hub |
| 13:14.44 | cb22 | *simple* |
| 13:15.11 | thomasgruebler | cb22: mikrocontrollers don't like usb |
| 13:15.57 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:15.59 | polz | which package is supposed to contain dbus-uuidgen ? |
| 13:17.36 | SpeedEvil | Many microcontrollers like USB. just fine. |
| 13:17.52 | SpeedEvil | bl4d3: cogratulations - any further email? |
| 13:18.01 | emdete | polz: dbus-1 |
| 13:18.21 | thomasgruebler | no. |
| 13:18.26 | thomasgruebler | nit 8bit microcontrollers |
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| 13:19.31 | emdete | thomasgruebler: where do you do this project? in school? |
| 13:19.43 | thomasgruebler | at home |
| 13:19.59 | thomasgruebler | but i can get oszilloskopes in school |
| 13:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko GNUtoo (n=GNUtoo@213-140-6-109.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 13:20.58 | GNUtoo | hello in wich language the openmoki libs are accesible? |
| 13:20.58 | aloril | GNUtoo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:23.34 | emdete | thomasgruebler: so it's not a school-project or similar? you work on that your own? |
| 13:23.53 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 13:23.55 | thomasgruebler | with a friend |
| 13:24.18 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 13:24.20 | thomasgruebler | in all my free time |
| 13:24.48 | thomasgruebler | in school i could have problems with teachers... |
| 13:25.01 | thomasgruebler | i want to do it at home because then i'm faster. |
| 13:25.01 | emdete | thomasgruebler: i did a similar project in the past as a teacher... we used linux/java and a microcontroler with c |
| 13:25.21 | emdete | thomasgruebler: what do you mean 'problem with teacher'? |
| 13:25.51 | thomasgruebler | they mostly don't know programming languages |
| 13:26.08 | thomasgruebler | maybe thats not such a problem |
| 13:26.09 | emdete | thomasgruebler: :D yes, it's a common problem of those guys... |
| 13:26.42 | thomasgruebler | bying somehting in school is maybe not so simple if i'm at home and click on some web pages |
| 13:26.48 | thomasgruebler | :D |
| 13:27.03 | thomasgruebler | and then there are schoolars who don't know anything |
| 13:27.28 | thomasgruebler | i'm sixteen. and surely the only guy on this school who knows C and a bit C++ in this age. |
| 13:27.34 | thomasgruebler | and linux |
| 13:27.51 | emdete | thomasgruebler: that's not uncommon too... :/ |
| 13:28.15 | thomasgruebler | maybe there are others who want to work with us |
| 13:28.17 | mjr | Yeah it's sad... When I was 14, we had a computer club at school where we learned C :] |
| 13:28.33 | thomasgruebler | then they don't know anything |
| 13:28.43 | thomasgruebler | like good programming, clean... |
| 13:28.47 | thomasgruebler | fast programming |
| 13:29.03 | emdete | thomasgruebler: did you any c projects already? |
| 13:29.15 | thomasgruebler | our teacher discribed us when we started vb. ... |
| 13:29.17 | edistar_ | thomasgruebler: which school? |
| 13:29.19 | thomasgruebler | yes. www.gruebler.at |
| 13:29.47 | thomasgruebler | datatypes of variables must be known but we should always use the biggest one :D |
| 13:30.14 | thomasgruebler | it's a mistake in Java that when a variable has a overflow it begans at it's lowest value |
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| 13:30.45 | thomasgruebler | i'm in austria. a higher techical school. |
| 13:31.15 | thomasgruebler | so i'm also not very good at english |
| 13:31.32 | SpeedEvil | Your english is better than my australian. (joking) |
| 13:31.33 | GNUtoo | in the hello world howto they only talk about the C languages...are there any other binding(perl? python?) |
| 13:31.42 | *** join/#openmoko Cmdr_Zod (n=peter@194.230.154.1) |
| 13:31.45 | edistar_ | at my school in germany there are maybe 3 or 4 people who know linux |
| 13:31.55 | emdete | australian!=austria. |
| 13:32.05 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 13:32.21 | thomasgruebler | to my c projects: a robot that collects pucks. 2 versions, 2 times 2nd place. |
| 13:32.32 | thomasgruebler | at the competition www.robotchallenge.at |
| 13:32.32 | edistar_ | thomasgruebler: robocup? |
| 13:32.47 | thomasgruebler | robocup will come now |
| 13:32.50 | thomasgruebler | junior |
| 13:32.53 | thomasgruebler | with football |
| 13:33.06 | edistar_ | ah |
| 13:33.08 | aloril | GNUtoo: at least there was almost complete Python bindings project, don't know about current state |
| 13:33.12 | thomasgruebler | currently i'm planning for it |
| 13:33.15 | thomasgruebler | finding sponsors... |
| 13:33.19 | emdete | SpeedEvil: sry, toook me month to figure that out in the past... :D |
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| 13:33.37 | GNUtoo | aloril, thanks, where can i find this project? |
| 13:33.37 | edistar_ | thomasgruebler: good luck |
| 13:33.41 | thomasgruebler | thanks |
| 13:33.51 | thomasgruebler | until now i had no sponsors |
| 13:33.53 | emdete | GNUtoo: python/ctypes always works... |
| 13:33.58 | thomasgruebler | but it always costs more :D |
| 13:34.02 | thomasgruebler | only my parents |
| 13:34.28 | edistar_ | a friend of mine is looking for sponsors for the robocup too |
| 13:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 13:34.56 | aloril | grepping from irc logs I get this url (haven't checked now): http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/bindings/ |
| 13:34.57 | cb22 | thomasgruebler, lucky |
| 13:35.02 | cb22 | your parents support you :) |
| 13:35.09 | GNUtoo | so no perl (i will have to learn python...) |
| 13:35.13 | *** part/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B1132C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:35.18 | thomasgruebler | but no pocket money. |
| 13:35.33 | thomasgruebler | but it's better so because i could never build a robot from pocket money |
| 13:35.40 | cb22 | until 6 months ago or so, i had a p3 as a computer |
| 13:36.22 | thomasgruebler | and? |
| 13:36.41 | SpeedEvil | Laptop, 1.1Kg, 8 hour battery life. |
| 13:36.48 | thomasgruebler | cool |
| 13:36.59 | cb22 | ATM... |
| 13:36.59 | cb22 | <edistar_> at my school in germany there are maybe 3 or 4 people who know linux |
| 13:37.01 | cb22 | at my school there is me and my friend |
| 13:37.15 | thomasgruebler | at my school theres me |
| 13:37.32 | thomasgruebler | and once i saw one from 1st class who wore a penguin on his t shirt |
| 13:37.42 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-23 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 13:37.52 | emdete | thomasgruebler: so perhaps you just don't know... |
| 13:38.04 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 13:38.09 | thomasgruebler | next time i speak with him when i see him |
| 13:38.18 | thomasgruebler | and he wears this tshirt |
| 13:38.37 | thomasgruebler | there's a additional lesson for linux |
| 13:39.02 | thomasgruebler | there i also go. but nobody know's how to use it the whole day |
| 13:39.03 | thomasgruebler | :D |
| 13:39.14 | thomasgruebler | so nobody could use it instead of windows |
| 13:39.34 | Cmdr_Zod | I was in a similar situation back then when I went to school |
| 13:40.35 | emdete | thomasgruebler: when i teached java (at a big germany company) i always had problems to keep the students with linux... windows is so much more attractive :/ |
| 13:40.59 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 13:41.12 | thomasgruebler | i would like it to have only linux on school computers. |
| 13:41.21 | emdete | thomasgruebler: they did not believe me that most of their problems with development are just gone with linux |
| 13:41.29 | thomasgruebler | windows only for special things like cad lessons. |
| 13:41.40 | thomasgruebler | for popular applications like autocad. |
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| 13:42.12 | emdete | thomasgruebler: i tried to support some students that tried to do that... it's hard in a windows world. |
| 13:42.36 | thomasgruebler | the problems where why i changed to linux. it was like roulett to get a working parallel-isp adapter unter xp wen i booted. unetr linux it worked all the time |
| 13:42.45 | emdete | thomasgruebler: had lots of dicussions with the principal... |
| 13:42.55 | thomasgruebler | :D |
| 13:42.55 | dtx | The only valid reason for Windows marketshare is all the specialized apps that have been written for it: Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. |
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| 13:43.13 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 13:43.17 | nbd | i guess nowadays you can run many of these in wine |
| 13:43.24 | dtx | Not AutoCAD |
| 13:43.26 | dtx | its a bitch |
| 13:43.30 | thomasgruebler | but proe for exaple has a linux version and is very popular |
| 13:43.30 | dtx | Photoshop you can though |
| 13:43.32 | nbd | wine seems to have made quite a bit of progress over the last months |
| 13:43.46 | dtx | yea |
| 13:43.50 | cb22 | thomasgruebler, do you go to a tech school? |
| 13:43.53 | emdete | thomasgruebler: last argument was always some software like the compiler suit for the microcontroler that only worked with windows. we used a linux makefile and wine to get it running ;) |
| 13:43.53 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 13:44.05 | dtx | I'm install wine 0.9.46 as we speak |
| 13:44.19 | thomasgruebler | the gnu compilers runs fine on linux |
| 13:44.25 | thomasgruebler | for atmel avr microcontrollers. |
| 13:44.37 | thomasgruebler | for C |
| 13:44.39 | thomasgruebler | or c++ |
| 13:45.00 | Cmdr_Zod | Only valid reason for the to still use Windows (on some computer I start up less than once a month) is to backup my cell phone |
| 13:45.15 | thomasgruebler | :D |
| 13:45.21 | thomasgruebler | and that should end with openmoko ;) |
| 13:45.25 | dtx | Do you guys know is python selected as the interpreter of choice on the moko? |
| 13:45.36 | emdete | thomasgruebler: shure, but they had their own sdk which needed windows. pimping CC= we used gnu-make under linux just fine ;) |
| 13:45.57 | thomasgruebler | what microcontroller? |
| 13:46.04 | thomasgruebler | xilinx is also linux able |
| 13:46.12 | thomasgruebler | pics can be also used on linux |
| 13:46.24 | thomasgruebler | there are also sdk's |
| 13:46.43 | emdete | thomasgruebler: the sdk was already choosen... :( |
| 13:46.45 | nbd | my "interpreter of choice" for embedded systems is busybox ash+awk ;) |
| 13:46.52 | thomasgruebler | :D |
| 13:47.27 | nbd | but then again, most of my devices don't have enough space for python |
| 13:47.30 | emdete | nbd: don't forget good old sed - no need for perl at all... |
| 13:47.31 | dtx | busybox isn't feature-for-feature compatible with the non-busyboxed versions though right? |
| 13:47.37 | nbd | and i've never actually written any python |
| 13:47.38 | dtx | So wouldn't that make it harder to dev for |
| 13:48.05 | emdete | dtx: non-busyboxed means what? |
| 13:48.07 | dtx | I like python |
| 13:48.30 | emdete | dtx: shure python is wonderful, but fat |
| 13:48.33 | dtx | The programs busybox is imitates |
| 13:48.44 | dtx | yea |
| 13:48.46 | nbd | dtx: well, if you write stuff for busybox, it'll typically run on bash and gawk as well |
| 13:48.48 | dtx | But featurefull |
| 13:48.58 | dtx | typically |
| 13:49.07 | emdete | dtx: even those are not the same - you probably talk about the gnu versions of it... |
| 13:49.08 | dtx | But I thought I encountered some exceptions |
| 13:49.48 | emdete | dtx: even gnu-something is not feature compatible to say solaris-something |
| 13:51.08 | thomasgruebler | so how works openmoko with linux on the pc |
| 13:51.17 | thomasgruebler | not so good as with linux? |
| 13:51.22 | emdete | thomasgruebler: in qemu? |
| 13:51.22 | thomasgruebler | erm windows |
| 13:51.30 | thomasgruebler | no |
| 13:51.33 | thomasgruebler | the sdk |
| 13:51.49 | dtx | OpenMoko can run natively on anything with Linux on it, correct? |
| 13:51.54 | emdete | thomasgruebler: i never tried windows... have none |
| 13:52.28 | thomasgruebler | ok |
| 13:52.39 | thomasgruebler | thats the best way |
| 13:52.46 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 13:53.02 | emdete | thomasgruebler: no, not the best, the easiest. i'm lazy. |
| 13:53.20 | thomasgruebler | best way is to never use windows |
| 13:53.21 | thomasgruebler | ;) |
| 13:54.26 | emdete | thomasgruebler: may be. i don't know. i am faster with a unix-like os... |
| 13:54.36 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:54.42 | *** part/#openmoko winu1 (n=root@218.7.43.204) |
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| 13:55.14 | thomasgruebler | ok |
| 13:56.09 | Shoragan | dtx, if you are talking about the applications, yes |
| 13:56.16 | Cmdr_Zod | Whoever believes he could use his openmoko as a Modem to connect his laptop to the Internet: Forget it, GPRS is so damn slow, even EDGE is a pain. |
| 13:56.40 | dtx | EDGE supposedly gets up to 200kbs right? |
| 13:56.43 | dtx | approx. |
| 13:56.52 | Shoragan | Cmdr_Zod, but thats no specific to openmoko, gprs ist just slow |
| 13:57.01 | emdete | dtx: if your operator supports it... |
| 13:57.08 | dtx | hmmm |
| 13:57.08 | mjr | Cmdr_Zod, I already use it, so I won't |
| 13:57.23 | dtx | But regardless it won't be slower than 56k |
| 13:57.35 | mjr | EDGE is up to 473.6k with 8 timeslots |
| 13:57.38 | dtx | BTW, does OpenMoko support EDGE or just GPRS |
| 13:57.44 | mjr | dtx, just GPRS |
| 13:57.48 | dtx | damn |
| 13:57.53 | mjr | well |
| 13:57.59 | mjr | Neo1973 supports just GPRS |
| 13:58.09 | dtx | right |
| 13:58.16 | dtx | I should have refined that statement |
| 13:58.27 | Cmdr_Zod | I have about 20 KByte/s with EDGE on swiss Sunrise network. |
| 13:58.55 | Shoragan | rwhitby, could you document that somewhere? |
| 13:58.59 | dtx | I have a feeling I will only be using mobile wireless for emergency maps 'n stuff |
| 13:59.06 | thomasgruebler | you can disable pictures in some browsers then you can use slow internet as well |
| 13:59.22 | thomasgruebler | the opera mini is a perfect web client for java mibile fones |
| 13:59.29 | Shoragan | gprs is good enough for email and im |
| 13:59.36 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 13:59.51 | dtx | a 2400kbps modem is good enough for that |
| 13:59.53 | Cmdr_Zod | dtx: It is the same for me, unfortunately my fixed line is broken since last Thursday, and EDGE is all I get here |
| 14:00.57 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-131-112.bas502.dsl.esat.net) |
| 14:00.58 | Cmdr_Zod | cb22: Not only the provider needs to support EDGE, the end user device has to support it too, or you don't profit at all |
| 14:01.26 | rwhitby | Shoragan: already did a while back. just edited it to add the missing clue about setting the class correctly in /etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf. http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/nslu2-linux/connecting-a-treo650-to-an-openembedded-based-firmware-distribution.html |
| 14:01.36 | mjr | of course it does, duh |
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| 14:01.43 | thomasgruebler | and what's the problem to support edge on neo? |
| 14:01.56 | mjr | thomasgruebler, the GSM chipset doesn't, that simple |
| 14:02.22 | thomasgruebler | ok |
| 14:02.28 | dtx | no bueno |
| 14:03.13 | cb22 | Cmdr_Zod, i know, but what i'm saying is i read that they implimented it in software |
| 14:03.18 | dtx | Has there been any talks with the Ubuntu Mobile people to try to merge forces on this stuff? |
| 14:03.45 | dtx | on their end they implemented it in software though, right? |
| 14:04.00 | dtx | not on the phone end |
| 14:04.15 | Cmdr_Zod | I never heard of any phone that could be updated to EDGE |
| 14:04.20 | cjb_ie | right, but the hardware at the providers' end is probably a lot more flexible |
| 14:04.39 | cjb_ie | whereas everybody knows phones are throwaway devices that you replace when you get bored with the ringtone\ |
| 14:05.33 | Cmdr_Zod | see: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution |
| 14:05.50 | mjr | Cmdr_Zod, at least in practice (that is, the chip sellers don't want to upgrade them, even if the physically could hack it, which I'm not saying, since I don't know) |
| 14:07.43 | Cmdr_Zod | mjr: EDGE uses a different modulation of the signal, I think GSM chips in phones do that in hardware (saves energy) while Base stations do it in software, which is more flexible |
| 14:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko der_io (n=der@p54A0C4B4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:09.02 | thomasgruebler | and how complicate is it to include edge to the neo? |
| 14:09.10 | thomasgruebler | so complicate like umts? |
| 14:09.33 | *** part/#openmoko cindy (n=cindy@c-24-218-180-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:09.34 | thomasgruebler | but best is that wlan works. thats better than umts |
| 14:10.20 | Cmdr_Zod | thomasgruebler: I think they would need to use a different GSM chipsets which needs a new PCB design (and testing of the new design) and some changes in the GSM daemon |
| 14:10.27 | Shoragan | that would need a new gsm chipset |
| 14:10.50 | Shoragan | the next models (after GTA02) will probably support umts |
| 14:11.09 | thomasgruebler | ok |
| 14:11.09 | cjb_ie | different GSM chipsets need not necessarily need a new PCB |
| 14:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@host150-127-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:11.59 | mjr | not completely necessarily, no |
| 14:12.34 | mjr | anyway, yeah, faster mobile data will have to wait for future releases (we don't count wifi for mobile data) |
| 14:12.40 | thomasgruebler | why is there no stereo speaker in the new phone? (i forgot it) |
| 14:12.59 | Shoragan | because the space is needed for the wifi chipset |
| 14:13.23 | thomasgruebler | oh yes |
| 14:13.34 | thomasgruebler | and there's no another space for the speaker? |
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| 14:14.15 | mjr | ... |
| 14:14.16 | mjr | no |
| 14:14.53 | thomasgruebler | and how good is the sound of the mono spekaer? |
| 14:15.30 | mjr | to my knowledge, it's the same type of speaker, just only one, so quality shouldn't change much... |
| 14:15.44 | drath | is there a noticeable stereo effect with two speakers only few cm apart? |
| 14:15.55 | thomasgruebler | no |
| 14:16.01 | thomasgruebler | but the sound is better |
| 14:16.11 | thomasgruebler | i never heard a good sound on mono speakers |
| 14:16.14 | dtx | hehe maybe I should get a cheap-o 3G phone and use it as a modem for my Neo |
| 14:16.22 | drath | hehehe |
| 14:16.29 | thomasgruebler | but also a mono radio on 2.1 speakers sounds good |
| 14:16.52 | thomasgruebler | you can use one of the umts modems with usb |
| 14:17.09 | dtx | Is umts a cellular technology? |
| 14:17.13 | mjr | dtx, yes |
| 14:17.28 | dtx | how would it work with my SIM in the Neo? |
| 14:17.35 | mjr | thomasgruebler, they generally likely want high-powered USB |
| 14:17.51 | mjr | dtx, wouldn't, you'd need another |
| 14:18.08 | thomasgruebler | how much power do we have? |
| 14:18.20 | dtx | And I would suspect the unpowered USB would definitely not work for a radio broadcasting device |
| 14:18.23 | mjr | the minimum 100 mA on GTA02, none on GTA01 |
| 14:18.40 | dtx | oh it will be powered now? |
| 14:18.47 | sagacis|asleep | morning |
| 14:18.52 | mjr | it will, but doubtfully enough for that use, as said |
| 14:19.03 | dtx | I'm just impressed it has anything though |
| 14:19.04 | dtx | woohoo |
| 14:19.10 | mjr | yeah, it's nice |
| 14:19.18 | Vegar | doen GTA02 have powered USB? |
| 14:19.25 | thomasgruebler | so i can add a usb mouse |
| 14:19.25 | Vegar | does* |
| 14:19.26 | dtx | I can actually use a powered hub then if need be |
| 14:19.32 | thomasgruebler | or usb keyboard ;) |
| 14:19.38 | thomasgruebler | that would be cool |
| 14:19.43 | thomasgruebler | i need no laptop |
| 14:19.44 | thomasgruebler | :D |
| 14:19.53 | mjr | anyway, what you _could_ do is just stick your SIM into that "cheap-o 3G phone", have no SIM on the Neo, just use the 3G via Bluetooth, and VOIP for voice calls... ;] |
| 14:20.01 | dtx | yeah |
| 14:20.07 | dtx | Thats what I was thinking |
| 14:20.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=fredsiba@p54950B8F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:20.20 | dtx | Of course what ver of bluetooth is in Neo? |
| 14:20.24 | mjr | 2 |
| 14:20.27 | dtx | nice |
| 14:20.47 | mjr | mostly the USB power is nice so that USB gadgets recognize that they're hooked up to something |
| 14:20.47 | thomasgruebler | with or without EDR |
| 14:20.55 | dtx | yeah |
| 14:20.58 | mjr | ...can unload my camera when necessary for instance |
| 14:21.12 | thomasgruebler | maybe i will hack ma phone i want to buy and add 500mAh |
| 14:21.32 | dtx | thomasgruebler: just buy a battery powered USB hub |
| 14:21.37 | dtx | no problem |
| 14:21.43 | juri_ | or, build a usb power injector. |
| 14:21.58 | juri_ | i happen to have one from my nokia n770 that works great. |
| 14:22.08 | dtx | how does it work? |
| 14:22.13 | juri_ | (i put a switch in, disabling power to the nokia) |
| 14:22.14 | mjr | yeah, those nokia tablets have the same deal as gta01 |
| 14:22.35 | mjr | dtx, just puts 5 V on the power lines while passing through the data lines |
| 14:22.46 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8DDB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:22.49 | juri_ | mjr: not quite. the nokia requires 5V in, as well as you to supply your own 5v to the device. |
| 14:23.17 | mjr | I see |
| 14:23.19 | thomasgruebler | i never saw such a hub |
| 14:23.29 | mjr | you never looked |
| 14:23.35 | juri_ | i'm not sure that the neo requires that 5v in. so i put a switch on my 'altoids tin' disabling it. |
| 14:24.09 | dtx | I have a couple battery powered hubs |
| 14:24.13 | thomasgruebler | what happens if i make a shourt circuit on the usb port or want to get more than 100mA |
| 14:24.14 | dtx | rechargeable from USB |
| 14:24.14 | thomasgruebler | ? |
| 14:24.23 | dtx | so it will draw 100mA from the Neo while connected though |
| 14:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A5461F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:25.01 | juri_ | thomas: a "bad" short could burn out your usb. |
| 14:25.34 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-23 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 14:25.45 | mjr | USB has current negotiation, so devices shouldn't draw over 100 mA from it. If they do, I dunno, bad things may happen |
| 14:26.03 | dtx | Search for CyberPower Battery Powered USB Hub |
| 14:26.08 | dtx | It works pretty well |
| 14:26.21 | cjb_ie | mjr: there's plenty of dim devices out there though. |
| 14:26.24 | dtx | I operate a bar code scanner and tethered camera off it |
| 14:26.52 | juri_ | mjr: i built my altoids tin with 1A of available current, to the nokia, and to the device. 2A total. :) |
| 14:27.31 | juri_ | "just in case". i was able to power a usb 2.5" hard drive off a 9V battery, and mount it on my pda. |
| 14:27.39 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@58.35.3.195) |
| 14:27.49 | thomasgruebler | 1 pound?????????????????????????????????????????? |
| 14:27.53 | thomasgruebler | it's a bit much |
| 14:28.57 | juri_ | hmm.. since the neo will charge from usb.. that means i'm probably safe supplying voltage to it... |
| 14:29.10 | mjr | *nod* |
| 14:29.23 | mjr | though with GTA02, you probably won't want to |
| 14:29.26 | juri_ | which, since i put a 12V port on my altoid tin... means i have a neo car charger. :) |
| 14:29.50 | mjr | in host mode, though you'll probably be able to control when neo supplies power (one presumes...) |
| 14:30.24 | thomasgruebler | i will hack the phone to get full 500mA from usb ports |
| 14:30.49 | rwhitby | simultaneous incoming and outgoing bluetooth connections to/from the neo |
| 14:30.49 | thomasgruebler | erm |
| 14:30.58 | thomasgruebler | how much volts does the akku have? |
| 14:31.15 | Shoragan | 3.7V |
| 14:31.19 | thomasgruebler | oh |
| 14:31.26 | thomasgruebler | thats not easy to make 5V out of it |
| 14:31.40 | Shoragan | thats why gta02 will only supply 100mA |
| 14:31.46 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 14:31.52 | thomasgruebler | i understand |
| 14:32.06 | dtx | bluetooth 2.0 is the high speed bluetooth correct? |
| 14:32.09 | Shoragan | but you can easily use an extern 5v supply |
| 14:32.20 | thomasgruebler | 2.0 EDR+ is more high speed |
| 14:32.24 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 14:32.37 | thomasgruebler | on my robot will be a extra accu :D |
| 14:32.41 | dtx | what's the difference between 2.0 and 2.0EDR? |
| 14:32.48 | thomasgruebler | 2 or 4Ah, 11.1V |
| 14:32.53 | thomasgruebler | 2.0edr is faster |
| 14:33.09 | dtx | I'm trying to find the speeds online |
| 14:33.13 | dtx | but it is proving difficult |
| 14:33.37 | thomasgruebler | wikipedia? |
| 14:35.58 | dtx | It shows the speed of Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR |
| 14:36.03 | dtx | But not Bluetooth 2.0 |
| 14:36.12 | dtx | Is 2.0 not always EDR? |
| 14:37.49 | dtx | Oh nevermind |
| 14:38.00 | dtx | 2.0 without EDR is the same speed as 1.2 |
| 14:38.09 | dtx | So does it have 2.0 + EDR? |
| 14:38.37 | *** join/#openmoko N (i=phil@dsl51B6CBC7.pool.t-online.hu) |
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| 14:41.59 | emdete | bt support 10m and 100m range as i understand - which one is supported by the neo? |
| 14:42.09 | emdete | s/support/supports/ |
| 14:43.36 | mjr | it's edr, I think it's the 10m class |
| 14:43.43 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 14:44.29 | mjr | yeah, Class 2 2.5 mW (4 dBm) ~10 meters |
| 14:44.44 | dtx | cool |
| 14:44.58 | dtx | can't wait for this puppy |
| 14:45.32 | dtx | I wish they'd solidify the hardware and do another dev release |
| 14:45.35 | dtx | I want one |
| 14:45.46 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-16 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 14:46.04 | emdete | dtx: same to me - i really would like to see graph-performance with that s-media chip... |
| 14:46.10 | dtx | I've been playing with the emulator for too long now |
| 14:46.18 | dtx | yeah |
| 14:46.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Manually_using_Bluetooth]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[User:Fradeve11]] [[Installation_guide/it]] [[Installation_guide]] |
| 14:47.08 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
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| 15:09.31 | cb22 | dtx, same here |
| 15:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:10.41 | PBeck | hi |
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| 15:36.24 | dtx | hi |
| 15:36.57 | thomasgruebler | hi |
| 15:38.33 | sagacis | Hi |
| 15:39.51 | dtx | hi |
| 15:50.08 | *** join/#openmoko b3nne (n=b3nne@90-227-34-143-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:51.07 | b3nne | So it is impossible to get a gta02 even without openmoko before december? |
| 15:51.08 | aloril | b3nne: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:53.30 | Kero | from MokoMakefile, `make flash-qemu-local run-qemu` does not boot a kernel in qemu. addresses seem to mismatch (0x31000000 vs 0x32000000). Any hints? |
| 15:54.59 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
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| 15:59.14 | Shoragan | b2nne, "without openmoko"? |
| 16:04.10 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@dslb-088-068-216-011.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:05.50 | b3nne | yes |
| 16:05.55 | b3nne | or with |
| 16:06.04 | b3nne | I just want the phone with that hardware |
| 16:09.02 | thomasgruebler | maybe you don't want the debug board |
| 16:09.05 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-23 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 16:09.17 | thomasgruebler | or do you only want the case? |
| 16:09.28 | thomasgruebler | without the prozessor, gsm module, everthing |
| 16:10.05 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
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| 16:10.37 | b3nne | what... |
| 16:11.11 | b3nne | I want the phone as it will be in december but with the openmoko beta or something like that:P |
| 16:12.37 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 16:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko Cmdr_Zod_ (n=peter@194.230.154.6) |
| 16:13.12 | zmedico | the gta02 will almost certainly ship before openmoko is ready for general consumers |
| 16:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 16:13.35 | CVirus | zmedico: what made you so sure ? |
| 16:13.58 | alphaone | b3nne: In that case I guess you will want the GTA02 P1 release |
| 16:14.01 | thomasgruebler | yes there is one version since 20 sept. but it's only for developers |
| 16:14.02 | zmedico | the gta01 did too, right? |
| 16:14.21 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 16:14.48 | b3nne | when will they release that one then. alphaone? |
| 16:14.59 | b3nne | 20 sept? |
| 16:15.08 | thomasgruebler | already released |
| 16:15.16 | b3nne | nice |
| 16:15.19 | CVirus | b3nne: we're 29 sept already ! |
| 16:15.22 | thomasgruebler | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 |
| 16:15.24 | thomasgruebler | oct 20 |
| 16:15.26 | thomasgruebler | sry |
| 16:15.27 | thomasgruebler | i know |
| 16:15.28 | b3nne | hehe im a bit lost :P |
| 16:16.01 | alphaone | b3nne: No real date yet. |
| 16:16.01 | b3nne | so it has the same harware as the phone that is released in dec? :P |
| 16:16.23 | thomasgruebler | no |
| 16:16.24 | CVirus | b3nne: no |
| 16:16.37 | thomasgruebler | if the hardware has really no failure: yes |
| 16:16.40 | CVirus | b3nne: I would have bought it if so :-) |
| 16:16.45 | b3nne | wait now... I think yout confusing me CVirus :P |
| 16:18.16 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-67-9-174-113.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 16:21.37 | Kero | *sigh* just too many qemu's running that were not killed... |
| 16:22.05 | Kero | (and on a sienote, `most_recent` not finding the most recent rootfs) |
| 16:22.25 | dtx | So they are going to produce more GTA01s? |
| 16:22.26 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-139-168-192-245.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 16:23.16 | Kero | the percentages shown when doing nand erase/write are fscked, tho. |
| 16:23.47 | dtx | for sale? |
| 16:27.37 | Kero | would be nice if the image started the X server, really. But I might just do that on the Neo itself. enough for today, either way. |
| 16:33.25 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@12.42.165.106) |
| 16:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko Cmdr_Zod__ (n=peter@194.230.154.7) |
| 16:42.23 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B1132C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 16:45.52 | *** join/#openmoko der__io (n=der@p54A0C4B4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:47.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Contacts/2007.2]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] |
| 16:48.27 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:51.22 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3059 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (fix-change_console-race.patch series): |
| 16:51.22 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Fix a race exposed by CFS while switching virtual consoles. |
| 16:51.22 | CIA-23 | openmoko: I've submitted this to lkml. |
| 16:51.29 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@adsl-212-16-103-6.taloyhtioverkot.fi) |
| 16:52.38 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (i=500@poolofdespair.net) |
| 16:55.27 | Shoragan | it will probably also trigger on other platforms |
| 16:55.34 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:55.49 | Shoragan | it's just most people testing the rcs don't use psplash |
| 16:56.09 | *** part/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@adsl-212-16-103-6.taloyhtioverkot.fi) |
| 17:03.54 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A76e8.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 17:15.59 | *** join/#openmoko Cmdr_Zod__ (n=peter@194.230.154.8) |
| 17:17.12 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-67-9-174-113.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 17:17.55 | *** part/#openmoko Cmdr_Zod__ (n=peter@194.230.154.8) |
| 17:19.23 | *** join/#openmoko PP|Spydon (n=lukas@90-227-34-143-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:19.59 | PP|Spydon | is it hard to install openmoko on the phone? |
| 17:20.31 | hhf423 | no |
| 17:20.47 | hhf423 | done in 15mins |
| 17:21.31 | hhf423 | why? |
| 17:22.49 | Psi_ | PP|Spydon, you mean on the neo right? |
| 17:23.03 | PP|Spydon | yes |
| 17:23.10 | Psi_ | yeah, its easy |
| 17:23.50 | PP|Spydon | if I buy the GTA02ps1, I will be able to update it when the "full version" of open moko comes out |
| 17:23.52 | thomasg | it's more 5 minutes than 15 :) |
| 17:24.13 | thomasg | GTA02ps1? |
| 17:24.36 | Psi_ | he means gta02 then my nick Psi |
| 17:24.39 | hhf423 | thomasg depends on how often you did it before and the speed of your internet connection |
| 17:25.25 | hhf423 | I think 15mins is fair for first time, given you have a Linux system. If you do not have a linux system, you need to add the time to download and burn a Live CD |
| 17:25.39 | PP|Spydon | yeah, someone told me that gta02 will be released before december but not with the stable openmoko |
| 17:25.54 | PP|Spydon | ofc I have a linux system :P |
| 17:26.04 | Psi_ | yeah, thats correct |
| 17:26.07 | Psi_ | afaik |
| 17:26.37 | PP|Spydon | wasnt the name of that one GTA02ps1? :P |
| 17:26.42 | PP|Spydon | or something like that? :P |
| 17:26.49 | PP|Spydon | ps0? |
| 17:27.07 | Psi_ | oh it wasnt a mistake |
| 17:27.31 | Psi_ | ive never heard of gta02ps before |
| 17:27.44 | PP|Spydon | okay |
| 17:27.54 | drath | do you mean GTA02 P0, P1 and so on? |
| 17:28.02 | PP|Spydon | probably :P |
| 17:28.30 | PP|Spydon | "Oct 20 - GTA02v3 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers." - can "normal" people buy the phone when you send it to the developers? |
| 17:28.51 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@ASte-Genev-Bois-151-1-7-5.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:29.31 | Shoragan | PP|Spydon, it may be available in the webshop in december |
| 17:29.39 | PP|Spydon | damn |
| 17:30.20 | PP|Spydon | :'( So I wont have a phone til december then :P |
| 17:34.46 | hhf423 | PP|Spydon: it is unlikely that you will hold it in your hand this year |
| 17:35.03 | PP|Spydon | WHAT?! :P |
| 17:35.44 | hhf423 | there is an optimistic schedule that would mean its in your hand december 25 (if thats not a holiday where you live), but thats optimistic |
| 17:36.16 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 17:36.25 | hhf423 | so I do not really expect to have mine before january |
| 17:36.44 | *** join/#openmoko pudelfish (n=thomas@DSL01.83.171.183.198.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 17:40.54 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 17:41.36 | PP|Spydon | crap :P |
| 17:43.16 | hhf423 | yes |
| 17:43.42 | hhf423 | but given the state of the software, you're not loosing much |
| 17:45.27 | *** join/#openmoko Kal_Torak (n=singer@c-67-160-202-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:45.29 | Shoragan | hhf423, which url? |
| 17:45.50 | hhf423 | Shoragan: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D |
| 17:46.50 | hhf423 | did anyone hear anything about the status of GPS? |
| 17:47.05 | Kal_Torak | Hurry up and polish the OpenMoko... I want one. |
| 17:47.09 | Kal_Torak | :P |
| 17:47.50 | hhf423 | Kal_Torak: you want openmoko or a Neo? |
| 17:48.21 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8DDB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:48.23 | fgau | hhf423: gllin for eabi is not ready :( |
| 17:48.23 | Kal_Torak | The Neo actually |
| 17:49.12 | hhf423 | Kal_Torak: GTA01 or GTA02? |
| 17:49.22 | Kal_Torak | I'm an advanced end user with some minimal C++ skills sorta guy |
| 17:49.42 | hhf423 | fgau: is there then a rumor that someone is working on it? Is there hope? |
| 17:50.14 | Shoragan | hhf423, mickeyl is in portual at the moment, he'll probably work on the gllin problem when he returns |
| 17:50.33 | fgau | hhf423: mickeyl says, they have not enough support from broadcom |
| 17:50.34 | Kal_Torak | Probably GTA02 |
| 17:51.05 | hhf423 | Shoragan: I forgot how long mickey is on vacation, is he back already? |
| 17:51.57 | Shoragan | i don't know |
| 17:52.12 | hhf423 | fgau: so there is no change on the broadcom situation? |
| 17:52.18 | mwester | That's not surprising, really. Firstly, Broadcom has a dedicated staff of lawyers who are probably doing everything they can to NOT release the library, and secondly, Broadcom knows the the GTA02 won't be using a Broadcom chip -- so there's no incentive for them to do ANYTHING to help us out, at all. |
| 17:52.49 | hhf423 | mwester: the decision not to have broadcom in GTA02 is now final? |
| 17:52.57 | fgau | hhf423: sry, i don't know |
| 17:53.01 | nbd | i think broadcom wasn't even considered for gta02 |
| 17:53.14 | nbd | do they even have a compatible module? |
| 17:53.38 | hhf423 | oooh, cool! |
| 17:54.04 | hhf423 | the latest qtopia now had a big keypad for typing in the pin. the small one was a bit annoying |
| 17:54.23 | mwester | If the decision isn't final, it's only a corporate lawyer thing. The technical decision to NOT use Broadcom was made long ago -- the decision on what to use instead was a lot harder, but there was concern about the closed-source Broadcom chip before the first hardware came off the line. |
| 17:54.52 | bedboi | hhf423: the problem with qtopia is the lack of an xserver |
| 17:55.05 | bedboi | gtk is useless there. |
| 17:57.13 | Shoragan | i'll take that bet |
| 17:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko _diego_ (n=diego@host-84-222-21-114.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:58.16 | bedboi | is my impression or the kinetic scrolling is impairing thumb clicks? |
| 17:58.55 | hhf423 | hmm, i'd not be very happy if I could not use GPS in my Neo. |
| 17:59.43 | mwester | Shoragan: You're on. When I get a gllin binary that works on the 2007.2 release, I'll send paypal you -- maybe the team that actually got Broadcom to deliver can enjoy a few beers. |
| 18:00.33 | Shoragan | ok :) |
| 18:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-23 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 18:07.18 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1096745295.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:11.17 | DukeOfURL | and when does mwester get paid if it never materializes? |
| 18:13.51 | |R | what happened? broadcom backed away from realesing a driver ? |
| 18:13.59 | strangelv | possibly another use for the debug connector? |
| 18:16.24 | mwester | |R: Nothing has happened. I'm just putting forth a strong opinion, based on my experiences in the past, that given the volume of GPS chips involved (engineering sample quantities for Broadcom-size companies), and the corporate culture of Broadcom, that they will drag their feet and never actually release a working driver. |
| 18:17.03 | roh | mwester well.. broadcom is much more helpful than gl was before as far as i can see |
| 18:17.23 | roh | and we have a eabi binary now. just its crashing still |
| 18:17.30 | roh | so that needs some further work. |
| 18:17.57 | |R | mwester : ok, i didn't follow everything, but i thougth pieces were chosen based on the availability of FOSS drivers... so we got a promess and now they're dragging their feets? |
| 18:18.10 | roh | which will not happen as long as mickey is in portugal |
| 18:18.28 | mwester | Consider: What's in it for them? FIC will not be purchasing any more of them. The contract was probably with GL, not Broadcom, so the Broadcom lawyers have an excuse to drag their feet. Compounded by the fact that there are few affected consumers, and really, folks, none of us in this forum are in a position to give Broadcom any bad press. |
| 18:18.30 | ckuethe | when i heard they bought GL, i got this sinking feeling that we'd never get working GPS |
| 18:18.31 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@pcp028815pcs.wireless.calpoly.edu) |
| 18:18.53 | roh | mwester the contract is and will be standing. don't spread fud please |
| 18:19.10 | |R | for the bad press part... it can be worked out |
| 18:19.16 | roh | mwester it also involes access to the agps data updates via ip |
| 18:19.19 | |R | but shouldn't unless we have to ;) |
| 18:19.21 | mwester | Roh: you and I both know that contracts are for lawyers, and don't make any difference in the real world. |
| 18:19.49 | |R | considering the momentum openMoko has, and digg / /. :P |
| 18:20.06 | roh | mwester ive seen the binary myself and tested the ip access to the agps data, so i'm quite confident that we can and will make a ipkg of gllin in time |
| 18:20.13 | mwester | The lawyers will find something wrong with the contract, if it comes to that. But even so, who would ever pay for the litigation? |
| 18:20.47 | mwester | I'm just telling it like it is, at least from a US-coporate legal point-of-view... |
| 18:20.55 | mwester | corporate, even. |
| 18:21.32 | roh | mwester well.. the planet is not only the us *eg* |
| 18:22.07 | mwester | In the end, it'll come down to charity if Broadcom delivers - and I find that betting on corporate charity is more likely to lose than not. :) |
| 18:22.25 | roh | mwester well.. please stop talking bullshit. |
| 18:22.33 | roh | they delivered, its just not done. |
| 18:23.04 | mwester | They delivered something? You mean the old gllin that we aren't allowed to have? |
| 18:23.25 | roh | mwester we are allowed to have it. we have solid and working contracts. |
| 18:23.36 | roh | the only thing we could not do before was distribute it. |
| 18:23.52 | roh | which was blocked mainly due to the aquireing of gl by brmc |
| 18:23.59 | mwester | That's not delivering anything. No delivery matters unless it can make it to the consumer. I'd love to be able to tell *my* customers that they should be happy, because even though *I* havent' delivered to them, my supplier delivered to me! |
| 18:24.15 | roh | mwester there are no consumers in this project at all. |
| 18:24.19 | roh | not yet. |
| 18:24.24 | mwester | We've been over that. |
| 18:24.25 | *** join/#openmoko zblach (n=zblach@bas2-windsor12-1088708021.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:24.48 | roh | mwester well. and you know our standpoint. if you think you are a consumer, please refrain from buying now. |
| 18:25.09 | mwester | Many people paid $ for the devices, with the expectation that they could perform useful development activities with the hardware. I think you need to revisit your understanding of supply-chain economics. |
| 18:25.27 | mwester | Like it or not, roh, I AM YOUR CUSTOMER!! Sorry dude! |
| 18:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker_ (n=dkirker@pcp028815pcs.wireless.calpoly.edu) |
| 18:26.14 | bedboi | that's true. When you pay something, you are a customer, this is the definition |
| 18:26.14 | roh | mwester and you need to understand that giving phones outside the company at all has been done not because theyre done products to sell, but to involve the community in development. and we clearly stated that over and over. |
| 18:26.39 | mwester | It's not a matter of "done" or not. It's a matter of whether certain things will ever be working at all. |
| 18:27.07 | roh | mwester if we would have done differently you would not have anything in your hand at all and still be nagging us why we did not release yet... |
| 18:27.11 | mwester | The problem of the GPS was at least suspected at the time. We can save the discussion on the GSM modem for another time. |
| 18:27.23 | hhf423 | roh, but the phone have not been "given", they have been "sold" |
| 18:27.33 | mwester | roh: no, if my expectations were set correctly, I'd be happy with what I had. |
| 18:27.40 | mwester | Expectations were that the GPS would work. |
| 18:27.50 | roh | mwester well. as you know the oabi gllin works, so talking about 'working at all' and 'ever' ist just bullshit. you know it works, and you know it will be delivered. |
| 18:28.02 | mwester | roh: then send me the oabi gllin. I'll be happy with that. |
| 18:28.13 | hhf423 | well, expectations were the GPS would work to the extend that a developer could work with it. And thats not there. |
| 18:28.34 | mwester | And I *don't* know that it will be delivered. I've outlined what I think is happening with the lawyers, and with why Broadcom isnt' fixing the problems. |
| 18:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 18:28.52 | roh | mwester i cannot do that . we never wanted to release that specific binary, so there is no license-text there to deliver it with |
| 18:28.54 | hhf423 | roh, oh, it will be delivered? when? |
| 18:29.21 | roh | hhf423 i cannot give you the date. when micha and broadcom have worked out why the eabi build crashes? |
| 18:29.26 | mwester | roh: the stop talking bullshit about gllin being delivered. It isn't. You can't deliver the one you have, so therefore that one cannot be called "delivered". |
| 18:29.32 | hhf423 | hmm, does someone know how to make the qtopia activate GPRS connection? |
| 18:29.36 | roh | hhf423 eh.. mickey |
| 18:29.57 | sagacis | hhf423: I never got it to connect |
| 18:30.32 | sagacis | roh: "it's crashing" isn't much of an excuse. gsmd was released, and it crashes nearly every connect. |
| 18:30.34 | hhf423 | roh, oh, so there IS a Eabi gllin, it just does not work very well yet? |
| 18:30.43 | mwester | Well, I've laid out my arguments. Nobody has refuted any of my logic, just provided arguements that "it will happen anyway" and arguments that "it has already happened because we have an old unreleasable gllin". |
| 18:30.53 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:31.19 | roh | hhf423 there IS. and it IS segfaulting very soon after start, so of no use yet. |
| 18:31.32 | hhf423 | well, thats news to me |
| 18:31.39 | sagacis | roh: I understand why OM and fic changed the gps chip. It's obviously the right answer, frustrating as it is to those of us wanting to develop against the gps. |
| 18:32.04 | hhf423 | and, actually, I find this good to hear. Because my latest status was that there is nothing at all from a eabi perspective |
| 18:32.19 | roh | sagacis when you want to develop for gps, ignore the hardware we have completely. just use gpsd |
| 18:33.00 | roh | sagacis totally regardless if its gllin, or whatever, the right point to get gps data is gpsd, and nothing else |
| 18:33.44 | roh | hhf423 well. i think that information was already on the mailing lists. as well as quite some mails from ken yale at broadcom explaining technical details |
| 18:35.35 | roh | jap.. sone on community@ |
| 18:35.50 | hhf423 | roh: I have not seen that. I just updated the wiki |
| 18:37.05 | hhf423 | hmm, if qtopia would do GPRS, this would actually be usable |
| 18:37.51 | roh | 5 mails from ken on community and 2 mails on openmoko-devel |
| 18:38.04 | bedboi | hhf423: qtopia it's already very usable. |
| 18:38.09 | bedboi | s/it// |
| 18:38.12 | sagacis | hhf423: It's getting better for sure, but still has a few limitations. No web support, for example. |
| 18:38.37 | roh | well.. read these mails if you are interrested in facts about gps progress. |
| 18:38.41 | bedboi | the problem is power management |
| 18:38.55 | mwester | roh: I've read them. |
| 18:38.58 | roh | need to go.. am invited by some 20yr ofl girls |
| 18:39.42 | hhf423 | bedboi: can you do GPRS |
| 18:39.58 | hhf423 | sagacis: yes, no browser yet, that what you mean? |
| 18:40.12 | hhf423 | ofl girls? |
| 18:40.18 | hhf423 | whats that? |
| 18:40.33 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 18:40.56 | roh | hhf423 old.. sorry.. gotta go ... bbl |
| 18:41.16 | hhf423 | roh, wer auf zu viele hasen zielt, schiesst daneben :-) |
| 18:41.23 | hhf423 | have fun |
| 18:42.21 | bedboi | roh: 20 yrs old are good just for sex in my opinion |
| 18:42.35 | bedboi | too young to have a discussion. |
| 18:42.59 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-69-66.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:44.31 | peepsalot | are there screenshots/mockups of the new interface? I just saw the old announcement of the UI redesign |
| 18:44.55 | bedboi | peepsalot: ? |
| 18:45.08 | sagacis | hhf423: I don't know of a QT browser available for qtopia at this point. |
| 18:45.38 | hhf423 | bedboi: that really depends on how old you would be yourself. I forgot how old roh is :-) |
| 18:46.03 | bedboi | hhf423: yep, i'm 28, 20 is definitely too young, even as i look 18 |
| 18:46.25 | bedboi | http://c3lab.poliba.it/index.php/LDC:Home |
| 18:46.28 | peepsalot | bedboi, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-August/000018.html there is one mockup at the Style Guideline link, just wondering if there were others |
| 18:46.38 | |R | haha |
| 18:46.43 | hhf423 | when I was 20, I found it very interesting to talk to girls my age :-) |
| 18:47.19 | sagacis|zoo | Gotta go. Later! |
| 18:47.20 | Shoragan | peepsalot, just look at any current screenshots |
| 18:47.29 | peepsalot | Shoragan, where |
| 18:47.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[GPS]] |
| 18:47.36 | Shoragan | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 18:47.43 | Shoragan | look for model: GTA01 |
| 18:47.54 | wasabi | so how close are we to being able to buy a phone that can place and receive calls? |
| 18:47.59 | wasabi | =) |
| 18:48.28 | hhf423 | wasabi: buy the neo and flash qtopia that calls work |
| 18:48.56 | hhf423 | s/that/then |
| 18:49.02 | wasabi | that's not very cool |
| 18:49.13 | hhf423 | why not? |
| 18:49.37 | |R | works for 3h than the battery dies right? :) |
| 18:49.39 | wasabi | i'd at least want my phone to run the software this # is working on heh |
| 18:49.52 | hhf423 | wasabi: you can also follow my instructions in "phase 1 software testing" and the calls work most of the time using openmoko |
| 18:50.22 | hhf423 | but the fact is that gsmd at the moment is crap |
| 18:50.33 | wasabi | hurmph |
| 18:50.55 | hhf423 | and as far as I know (I am a week out of sync) noone at OpenMoko is working on gsmd |
| 18:51.24 | hhf423 | cleary there are no changes to the gsmd code at the moment and for the past month or so |
| 18:51.59 | bedboi | hhf423: are you serious? |
| 18:52.21 | DukeOfURL | after the UI splash screen, neo displays "D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up..." |
| 18:52.25 | hhf423 | bedboi: about 20 year old girls? |
| 18:52.28 | DukeOfURL | has anyone else seen this? |
| 18:52.40 | bedboi | bedboi: no about gsmd. |
| 18:52.41 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: no. which kernel? |
| 18:52.48 | bedboi | lol |
| 18:53.02 | wasabi | Is tihs project going to produce a working product that can compete with the likes of my simple moto or not? I mean, I'd gladly pay a premium for it. Just need it to "work". :) |
| 18:53.08 | bedboi | hhf423: no, i was talking about gsmd. |
| 18:53.15 | hhf423 | bedboi: just look into the change log for gsmd and libgsmd, its easy to see that there is nothing going on at the moemnt |
| 18:53.32 | bedboi | oh, that's not good. |
| 18:53.50 | DukeOfURL | I just did a remake-package-linux-openmoko, but the problem is in rootfs |
| 18:53.54 | hhf423 | wasabi: it sure is. thats not the question, the question is how long it will take :-) |
| 18:54.20 | wasabi | the length of time it takes matters significantly. If it's going to be 2 years, it'll be obsolete before it's released. |
| 18:54.59 | |R | It'll always be behind in some aspects but probably way ahead in others... |
| 18:55.02 | |R | that's how FOSS works :) |
| 18:55.07 | DukeOfURL | hhf423: The problem is in rootfs |
| 18:55.34 | wasabi | I'm just curious where the funding will come from? Is it a sane business plan? Should I even bother considering buying one? |
| 18:56.14 | Jiten | wasabi: I suppose they're planning on funding it with a part of the profits they get from selling the phones :) |
| 18:56.21 | DukeOfURL | hhf423: The message says it can't read achine-id |
| 18:56.43 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: never heard of that :-) |
| 18:57.02 | wasabi | So when can I reasonably expect to have them my money? haha |
| 18:57.06 | wasabi | s/have/hand/ |
| 18:57.07 | |R | wasabi : depends of your goals / philosophy i guess |
| 18:57.17 | wasabi | Oh that's a cool bot. |
| 18:57.35 | Jiten | other than that, some other companies interested in using OM might pay them (or whoever they want) to work on some things. |
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| 19:00.28 | Jiten | the situation isn't that much different from desktop linux things I think. |
| 19:00.33 | wasabi | Not really. |
| 19:00.39 | wasabi | I use desktop linux at work. And as my main desktop. |
| 19:00.50 | wasabi | At home. And 4 of my employees do. And they can get work done. :0 |
| 19:00.56 | wasabi | A phone that can't make calls is a bit different. =/ |
| 19:01.19 | |R | I'm sure that within a year we'll have GSM and SIP working :) |
| 19:01.49 | wasabi | It's like... I don't care that the interface is in Cairo or GDK or anti aliased at this point. Need phone calls. :) |
| 19:02.37 | hhf423 | wasabi: a month ago I would have said "give them a month", but then actually noone started to work on gsmd |
| 19:02.43 | |R | We need to get Nokia on board and switch their N800 team to OpenMoko ;) |
| 19:02.50 | Jiten | anyway, the primary reason I'm interested in neo1973 is that it's a pretty nice PDA with GPS (which doesn't work yet either I heard) |
| 19:03.15 | wasabi | I'm interested in it because it's open. That's my only reason to desire to buy it. |
| 19:03.19 | Jiten | |R: Nokia should be releasing successor to N800 with GPS soonish I think. |
| 19:03.25 | wasabi | Obviously existing devices, which are cheaper work today. |
| 19:03.26 | bedboi | |R: this is not polite |
| 19:03.27 | Jiten | no phone though |
| 19:03.41 | hhf423 | so at the moment I think the answer is: we do not know. It seems to be likely, though, that Harald from OM will start to work on gsmd once GTA02 is ready. Thats maybe around end of october. |
| 19:03.41 | |R | Jiten : yep so i heard... but they're semi closed too |
| 19:03.48 | wasabi | But it has to do the minimal for me to keep it in my pocket and leave the motorola at home. |
| 19:03.49 | |R | bedboi : oh? :P |
| 19:04.07 | bedboi | <|R> We need to get Nokia on board and switch their N800 team to OpenMoko ;) |
| 19:04.21 | |R | how is that impolite? i must have missed something ;) |
| 19:04.26 | |R | and for who? |
| 19:04.46 | bedboi | oh, i mis-read it |
| 19:04.50 | bedboi | sorry |
| 19:04.51 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@41.231.3.10) |
| 19:04.57 | |R | haha :) |
| 19:05.00 | |R | noprob :) |
| 19:05.05 | wasabi | Heh. I had a n770. Pretty disappointing device for me. |
| 19:05.18 | bedboi | wasabi: n800 is a very usable device |
| 19:05.20 | wasabi | I mean, it was COOL... ut I found I never actually used it. EVentually just left it at home. |
| 19:05.23 | bedboi | really usable |
| 19:05.28 | |R | I'm getting an N800 though i really hope to get a GTA02 with basic phone calls and upgrade to that :) |
| 19:05.32 | wasabi | Yeah, for what... web browsing? |
| 19:05.52 | |R | pocket SSH ! |
| 19:05.52 | bedboi | hmm, web browsing is quite annoying |
| 19:06.00 | |R | (killer app for me :P) |
| 19:06.04 | bedboi | wasabi: opera is slow and huge. |
| 19:06.06 | |R | i can do _anything_ over a shell ahha :) |
| 19:06.10 | wasabi | It was COOL. Just wasn't worth carrying it around. |
| 19:06.11 | |R | (ok no, not that ;) |
| 19:06.30 | bedboi | wasabi: nokia guys are multimedia oriented. |
| 19:06.41 | wasabi | The motorola phone I have is "good enough" for web browsing.... I can view pages just fine. gmail works. |
| 19:06.45 | bedboi | btw the platform and the hardware are working |
| 19:06.50 | wasabi | gmail on my dinky cell phone works better than the email client on the n800 he |
| 19:07.15 | hhf423 | hmm, I find my N770 quite usable and good to have in some circumstances, like on vacation of looking something up quickly, when in the bedroom and no laptop in sight |
| 19:07.21 | |R | gotta run... cheers :) |
| 19:07.38 | wasabi | hhf423: Yeah, I was using maemo mapper for it. That was AWESOME |
| 19:07.49 | wasabi | But then my newer cell phone got that. IT sucks, but it works. |
| 19:08.14 | hhf423 | oooh, "Our best case analysis of the schedule indicates that GTA02 will be ready for shipment to end users in early to mid December." |
| 19:08.22 | hhf423 | maemo mapper? what was that? |
| 19:08.28 | wasabi | GPS program for the n800/770 |
| 19:08.37 | wasabi | It downloads google map tiles and uses a GPS. |
| 19:08.47 | wasabi | It's not web based, so it's really snappy. |
| 19:08.56 | Jiten | you just need a separate bluetooth GPS device with it I guess. |
| 19:09.00 | wasabi | Yeah. |
| 19:09.10 | wasabi | Again, obnoxious. My 200$ moto phone doesn't need that. |
| 19:09.26 | hhf423 | PP|Spydon: OpenMoko: "Our best case analysis of the schedule indicates that GTA02 will be ready for shipment to end users in early to mid December." |
| 19:10.04 | hhf423 | wasabi: thanks, sounds interesting. I'll look into that |
| 19:10.18 | Jiten | I was considering getting N800, GPS device and a 3G phone combination but ... having 3 devices, each on a different battery doesn't sound too attractive. |
| 19:10.37 | hhf423 | Jiten: my point exactly |
| 19:10.38 | Jiten | 2 would be barely acceptable. |
| 19:10.41 | wasabi | I'm so excited about these devices. But they have to be able to replace my existing devices or I can't carry them with me. |
| 19:11.48 | thomasgruebler | the gta02 will du |
| 19:11.49 | thomasgruebler | do |
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| 19:13.16 | Vegar | when it says "end users", does that mean the software is complete by then too? |
| 19:13.35 | thomasgruebler | yes |
| 19:13.39 | hhf423 | Vegar: no |
| 19:14.01 | Jiten | Vegar: depends on which software you mean :) |
| 19:14.16 | hhf423 | Vegar: there was a subsequent message that said what will be shipped is phase 2, for the wider developer community |
| 19:14.47 | Jiten | so, december is not mass market yet? |
| 19:14.50 | hhf423 | but, clearly, the people who were hired to do communication need to improve on selecting their words |
| 19:15.16 | Vegar | right, ok |
| 19:15.27 | hhf423 | Jiten: its the hardware that is ready for mass market. Its unlikely that the software will have "mass market" quality |
| 19:15.30 | thomasgruebler | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.33 | Vegar | well, as long as the hardware works.. |
| 19:15.44 | thomasgruebler | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 |
| 19:16.09 | thomasgruebler | i think they mean useable |
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| 19:20.55 | bedboi | hhf423: is there any new qtopia image ? |
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| 19:21.29 | hhf423 | bedboi: the newest is here: |
| 19:21.30 | hhf423 | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D |
| 19:21.53 | hhf423 | trolltech releases sources and ScaredyCat builds them |
| 19:22.12 | hhf423 | and puts the images there |
| 19:23.50 | bedboi | thanks good to know |
| 19:26.31 | Vegar | does GTA02 only have half the RAM of GTA01? |
| 19:26.46 | doc|home | no |
| 19:26.54 | doc|home | that'd make no sense :) |
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| 19:29.01 | bedboi | hhf423: which kernel image should i use? |
| 19:29.18 | DukeOfURL | what's the date on the latest kernel? |
| 19:30.31 | bedboi | http://wwitv.com/t1/b3386.m3u |
| 19:30.35 | fgau | DukeOfURL: I have the them D-Bus error |
| 19:30.35 | bedboi | don't miss the last scene |
| 19:30.38 | hhf423 | bedboi: uhh, I think the 21.6 unfortunately |
| 19:30.43 | hhf423 | lemme check |
| 19:31.03 | DukeOfURL | fgau: right after the UI splash screen? |
| 19:31.22 | hhf423 | bedboi: no 22.5 workd |
| 19:31.31 | fgau | yes, i have pushed i fresh build |
| 19:35.55 | fgau | DukeOfURL: i have used Mokomakefile without errors in the build |
| 19:37.31 | hhf423 | bedboi: yes, the latest uImage from ScaredyCat works, so .22.5....r2 |
| 19:37.40 | DukeOfURL | fgau: I'm also unable to build from scratch because of multiple OE errors |
| 19:38.10 | DukeOfURL | I wish those people would compile without errors before the check it in. |
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| 19:45.12 | thomasgruebler | good night |
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| 20:17.14 | bedboi | btw qtopia doesn't ship a terminal |
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| 20:17.55 | ljp | nope. |
| 20:18.34 | ljp | but there's an unworking but compiling one in the opieII sources |
| 20:18.58 | ljp | someday I wil have more than 24 hours in a day |
| 20:19.19 | doc|home | there was mention of other devices being announced in september, any more info on that? |
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| 20:47.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Hhf423]] [[User:Micha]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Torch]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Dual_SIM]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Different_speaker_orientation]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Stylus_mount]] and other changes |
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| 22:22.22 | Vegar | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Powerbutton.jpg |
| 22:22.28 | Vegar | what's that blue thing? |
| 22:22.31 | Vegar | is it a blue neo? |
| 22:24.58 | lostgeek_ | looks like a blue one... |
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| 22:46.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Aux_Button]] [[Neo1973_AUX_Button]] [[Talk:Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Neo1973_Power_Button]] |
| 22:49.37 | riot | wow.. the new build works really good.. |
| 22:50.04 | *** join/#openmoko DNAfanboy (n=cesar@foresight/developer/DNAFanboy) |
| 22:50.12 | riot | had some minor problem with dbus though - it forgot to build /usr/bin/dbus-daemon (installing an official ipkg solved that ;) |
| 22:50.14 | emdete | riot: are all the patches for gsmd included? |
| 22:50.51 | riot | emdete: i don't know. I ran the make update image about 3/4 hour ago, so, if they were in upstream already, i suppose so. |
| 22:51.00 | emdete | riot: havn't enough internet here to check... :/ |
| 22:51.20 | riot | emdete: the gsmd here is version 2957M |
| 22:51.38 | emdete | that's one more than mine ;) |
| 22:51.39 | riot | where is all the contact-data stored, btw? |
| 22:51.52 | emdete | eds |
| 22:52.06 | emdete | they use evolution's solution |
| 22:53.40 | riot | i want to slowly switch from my old s55 to the neo, but not without all my phone-numbers ;) |
| 22:54.18 | riot | aaw.. evolution brings all this gnome crap onto my workstation :( |
| 22:54.49 | riot | gotta evolve my own PIM |
| 22:55.32 | riot | wow.. so many deps for evolution |
| 22:56.07 | riot | 7856 kb for evolution - 156 Megs dependencies |
| 22:57.32 | emdete | riot: yes, i don't like evolution also. but they just use the database part - maybe that is less |
| 22:58.15 | riot | emdete: sure, i'm talking about evolution itself :) somehow you gotta sync and stuffs. |
| 22:58.26 | riot | and data entry on the phone itself is... hmm.. lets not talk about it |
| 22:58.29 | Aria | It's much, much, much less. |
| 22:58.43 | emdete | as far as i understand u may use syncml or something |
| 22:59.07 | riot | Aria: hmhmm.. evolution-common has 46 megs, rest is gnome stuff.. (incl. e.g. dbus, gnomevfs2 etc. pp.) |
| 23:00.15 | riot | yet, i'll probably extend my jabber-centric pim to include phone-support ;) vcards are just so simple to use. |
| 23:00.45 | emdete | shure... what messanger do u use? |
| 23:01.29 | riot | emdete: as my own (psy) is not yet usable, i prefer psi... its the most usable jabber-client, imho. |
| 23:01.42 | riot | but psy will probably kill everything else :) |
| 23:01.54 | emdete | ever looked at gajim? |
| 23:01.56 | riot | (it will run perfectly on openmoko ;) |
| 23:02.02 | riot | emdete: yes. tried out almost everything. |
| 23:02.10 | emdete | psy uses python? |
| 23:02.11 | riot | emdete: gajim is really one of the better |
| 23:02.17 | riot | emdete: exactly ;D |
| 23:02.43 | emdete | which frontend does psy use? gtk? |
| 23:03.13 | riot | some of the goals for psy are: gps support, 4 different user interfaces (gtk, irssi-like-readline, urwid (brings http, too!), qt), calendar and notifications, ... |
| 23:04.57 | riot | right now, its not usable, though, as i'm still coding the core (xmpp et al).. |
| 23:04.59 | emdete | which xmpp backend do u use? home-grown? |
| 23:05.19 | riot | i'm still evaluating. First try was twisted-words.. but i don't know if i'll keep that up |
| 23:05.33 | emdete | twisted? oh.... |
| 23:06.36 | riot | emdete: i like the concepts behind twisted, yet they are a bit hard to use and in my way, sometimes. |
| 23:06.38 | emdete | the backend below gajim looks pretty stable |
| 23:07.22 | emdete | riot: yes, that was my problem with twisted also |
| 23:07.42 | riot | hmm. gajim uses some homegrown things, it seems. I'm installing it again |
| 23:08.35 | emdete | no, they used a lib which was given up and now they develop further |
| 23:09.09 | riot | emdete: aah, that explains why theres nothing in the deps |
| 23:09.48 | emdete | don't remember the name - found it also on the net... it's from a russian programer as far as i remember |
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| 23:10.47 | riot | hmhmm.. gajim.. just installed it.. has problems with my ssl, gnupg.. bad bad bad.. esp. since both are so easily integrateable into python apps... |
| 23:11.15 | emdete | works fine for me |
| 23:11.16 | emdete | ...both |
| 23:11.24 | emdete | did u use stable or head? |
| 23:11.38 | emdete | ...and: the gnupg module sucks.... |
| 23:11.46 | *** part/#openmoko mete (n=mete@84-72-27-217.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:11.54 | riot | 0.11.2-1 |
| 23:12.00 | riot | (debian unstable) |
| 23:12.52 | emdete | from "deb ftp://ftp.gajim.org/debian unstable main" you get a gajim-svn which is head |
| 23:12.56 | riot | AAH.. Popup-Hell!! |
| 23:13.30 | emdete | switch it off. no prob. :) |
| 23:13.46 | riot | default should be off, imho |
| 23:13.53 | emdete | :) agree |
| 23:14.11 | riot | i don't want to feel like i'm using windows on my machines... don't want |
| 23:15.00 | riot | psy will mostly employ a tabbed ui, btw.. tabbed account/userlist + tabbed but disconnectable chat-windows.. I even hope this will be consistent on all UIs except readline |
| 23:15.06 | emdete | people are different... i use gajim all the time but most switches are not on the default value for me ;) |
| 23:15.14 | riot | yet, irssi is "tabbed" somehow, too :) |
| 23:15.59 | emdete | :D gajim is tabbed too |
| 23:17.36 | riot | the account-manager has some funny bugs.. |
| 23:17.45 | emdete | riot: much more interesting would be a ui that fits to neo's missing buttons.... |
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| 23:18.14 | riot | emdete: yep, that, i should plan.. |
| 23:18.22 | emdete | how do you think to input chars? |
| 23:18.51 | riot | hmm. matchbox keyboard.. what else? |
| 23:19.21 | emdete | keyboard on screen requires pen |
| 23:19.35 | emdete | pen sucks |
| 23:19.37 | riot | no, i'm not gonna invent ANOTHER input method... |
| 23:19.50 | SpeedEvil | riot: why not? Everyone else is doing it. |
| 23:19.56 | riot | SpeedEvil: ok, you got me. |
| 23:19.57 | emdete | have u used the keyboard? it's uncool |
| 23:20.11 | riot | emdete: now, i'm used to typing on onscreen keyboards. |
| 23:20.19 | riot | yes, its lame, but better than nothing. |
| 23:20.22 | viq | riot: what problems with ssl and gnupg do you have in gajim? |
| 23:20.43 | riot | viq: ssl works. gnupg: It claims "OpenPGP support does not work on this computer" |
| 23:21.10 | viq | riot: works well enough for me |
| 23:21.17 | riot | viq: i'm not very eager to get them to work perfectly.. i'm just having a look at gajims internals. |
| 23:21.25 | viq | mhmm |
| 23:21.30 | emdete | riot: did u install the python module? |
| 23:21.43 | riot | viq: it didn't bother to accept my settings regarding popups.. i'm NOT gonna use gajim for everyday biz. |
| 23:21.56 | viq | popups? |
| 23:22.03 | riot | emdete: nope. Might be a reason ;) |
| 23:22.14 | riot | viq: yes, those nasty popup-boxes you know from windows *g* |
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| 23:22.37 | viq | riot: I am not sure what you mean. |
| 23:22.37 | riot | i switched them off, added another account and, *WHAM* there i have some more of em |
| 23:22.54 | riot | viq: turn gajim to defaults, you will see them.. |
| 23:23.06 | emdete | riot: i had an issue with LANG in the env set to something where the tool does not output the expected stuff and the python module gives an error... as i said that module is very buggy |
| 23:23.19 | viq | riot: can't you just explain? ;) |
| 23:25.34 | riot | viq: no.. not really.. you don't really want them either.. |
| 23:25.57 | viq | eh, whatever. time to go to sleep. *poof* |
| 23:25.59 | riot | so, lets just forget about popups/bubble-windows.. i don't even know how to call them.. ABOLISH..AVOID..get RID of them |
| 23:26.03 | riot | gdn8 ;) |
| 23:31.28 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin__ (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-120-058.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:31.34 | *** join/#openmoko costan (n=victor@STRATTON-FOUR-FORTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU) |
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| 23:45.07 | sagacis|back|fro | heh |
| 23:53.29 | *** part/#openmoko Kal_Torak (n=singer@c-67-160-202-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:55.49 | dcordes | does somebody experience the same bug? http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3081 |
| 23:56.00 | dcordes | (procps not compiling) |
