| 00:01.25 | Mek | it uses some buffer overrun to execute some code that does the actual unlocking I believe... |
| 00:05.17 | *** join/#openmoko andele_ (n=andele@78-106-25-227.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 00:07.13 | LittleIdiot | i wonder if the neo will sell well with contracts, because there is no way for providers to lock them... |
| 00:07.36 | mjr | krazy glue |
| 00:07.43 | LittleIdiot | which renders it a quite unattractive device for them |
| 00:08.07 | Vegar | why would the providers need to lock the phones if the customer is bound by the contract? |
| 00:08.36 | mjr | there's other stuff too that operators probably won't like, such as no way to make a killing charging extra for songs to be able to use as ringtones |
| 00:09.16 | mjr | Vegar, they'd generally want one to use the phone in their network too, though presumably they could make a contract whose base cost is enough even without usage |
| 00:09.51 | Vegar | right |
| 00:10.37 | LittleIdiot | well locks exist because some contracts even out when the customer actually uses their services |
| 00:10.51 | mjr | though that may still be unflattering to consumers blinded by cheap-seeming contracts that actually cost a killing |
| 00:10.57 | mjr | yeah |
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| 00:34.57 | notserpe | mailing list way-back-machine? |
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| 00:56.25 | moofoo | hello, is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU supposed to work? i followed the steps but finally qemu hangs (causing 100% cpu load) as in: http://pastebin.ca/717947 - any hints? |
| 00:57.23 | cesarb | moofoo: I've had timeout problems with that recently too |
| 00:57.38 | cesarb | moofoo: after some tried it ended up working (probably by luck) |
| 00:57.43 | cesarb | s/tried/tries/ |
| 00:58.17 | moofoo | so some race condition? |
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| 00:59.10 | cesarb | moofoo: dunno (btw, I use mokomakefile's build-qemu and flash-neo-local targets instead of doing it by hand) |
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| 00:59.29 | cesarb | moofoo: to me it looked more like it was just being too slow for some reason |
| 00:59.53 | cesarb | moofoo: that's a configurable timeout before the shell kills the emulator (it's running the emulator to flash the emulator image...) |
| 01:00.22 | moofoo | you have some urls for this mokomakefiles build-qemu? |
| 01:00.50 | moofoo | hm yeah i had it go a bit further once but then again the old spot did not make it hold so long.. |
| 01:00.54 | moofoo | so its really strange |
| 01:02.11 | cesarb | moofoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 01:02.37 | *** join/#openmoko Jon_yoosic (n=jon_bart@c-69-246-202-182.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 01:03.17 | Jon_yoosic | anyone here in the US? I am shopping for a new cellular plan and provider and want to choose one that will play nice with devices moko will run on, particularly the neo1973 |
| 01:03.21 | cesarb | rwhitby: cool, the clean target is something I did by hand several times already (now how come I didn't think of making a target of it?) |
| 01:04.45 | Jon_yoosic | So far it looks like cingular and tmobile are the only proper SIM providers |
| 01:04.56 | ljp | thats about it for the us |
| 01:05.38 | Jon_yoosic | Bullocks. |
| 01:05.40 | ljp | when i was there for a month, cingular seemed better |
| 01:06.14 | Jon_yoosic | Hah! I was the other way around, I was on a midgrade prepay plan in Germany (Free & Easy ) and I loved it! Now I'm with cingular now and I'm not thrilled. |
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| 01:06.37 | Jon_yoosic | I talked to TMobile today, I'm interested in their UMA / Hotspot plans |
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| 01:07.21 | Jon_yoosic | Erk Tmobile @ home ~ hotspot |
| 01:07.34 | Jon_yoosic | I'm interested in that because I can leech wifi almost everywhere. |
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| 01:09.50 | Jon_yoosic | Are there any UMA phones that moko will run on right now?? |
| 01:10.17 | Jon_yoosic | More importantly, where else should I be looking for this info? |
| 01:10.41 | cesarb | http://lwn.net/Articles/250358/ <- cool, does that run on the neo already? |
| 01:12.40 | Mek | it can be build without kde dependencies, so I guess it should be possible... |
| 01:12.54 | Mek | although you still would need qt4... |
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| 01:19.25 | Jon_yoosic | nrgh. UMA makes sense, it should cost the carriers LESS to have that |
| 01:19.58 | Jon_yoosic | yet the cheapest I can get for my wife and I is $100 a month, that is going to cut into my "hacking" cash to buy the neo |
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| 01:28.16 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: UMA is new. New things are more expensive. |
| 01:29.05 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: besides, the price (not the cost) is determined by how much people want/are able to pay, and UMA is a nice shiny new thing (not to mention you can use it to make cell phones work within elevators...) |
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| 01:30.28 | Jon_yoosic | yea |
| 01:30.43 | Jon_yoosic | Cincinnati Bell and Tmobile are the only to us providers |
| 01:31.49 | Jon_yoosic | Thing is I earn my living as a software developer in the medical industry, one of the things that has slowed good mobile device development is that you can't get cellular reception in most hospitals. However they have gotten to the point where wifi is ubiquitous. Thus UMA makes sense to me both at home and at work. |
| 01:31.54 | Jon_yoosic | *two US providers |
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| 01:32.41 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: I've had to swap phones with my relatives to get good reception in a hospital before |
| 01:33.26 | Jon_yoosic | What that means is that something like OpenMoko on a good phone combined with UMA will help my team and I integrate our medical applications into a phone and acess their data over wifi while still enabling the doctors to carry only one device that will make calls anywhere. |
| 01:33.47 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: a cell repeater could also fix the problem... (perhaps even two cell antennas connected by a piece of the correct kind of wire, perhaps with an amplified in the middle) |
| 01:34.06 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: the only problem would be having to pull the specific cable, instead of "generic" Cat5 |
| 01:34.54 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: unfortunately, from what I've heard UMA needs specific help from the modem, which I don't think the neo will have (well, perhaps with a firmware upgrade in the modem... yeah, right.) |
| 01:35.41 | Jon_yoosic | No it does not. The routers that are labled for UMA simply do packet shaping to give priority to UMA/VoIP signals |
| 01:36.50 | Jon_yoosic | The thing with repeaters is that they are specialty hardware that only serves one device. WiFi is generic and serves everything, from PDAs to workstations to tablets to non-critical monitoring devices. It also just takes a competent network engineer to design a wifi plan, when you get to repeaters you have to step up a few levels to get it done right. |
| 01:37.43 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: by modem I meant the neo GSM chipset, not the wifi router |
| 01:38.26 | Jon_yoosic | ah yea |
| 01:38.27 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: well, and slapping access points randomly around already gives you 90% coverage ;-) |
| 01:38.55 | Jon_yoosic | UMA is a part of the GSM standard (not sure how exactly) so yes you are right it would take some fiddling with GSM chip |
| 01:39.56 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: there are at least two things which would need the modem's help - authentication and roaming |
| 01:40.23 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: authentication because it's the modem which "owns" the SIM (it's even physically connected directly to it) |
| 01:40.31 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: roaming for obvious reasons |
| 01:40.49 | rwhitby | cesarb: wifi or BT access point? |
| 01:42.27 | Jon_yoosic | rwhityby: wifi |
| 01:42.38 | cesarb | rwhitby: wifi |
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| 01:45.15 | cesarb | But then, putting Windows XP on a macbook pro is, as the designer guys there would agree with me, bad taste. |
| 01:45.45 | Jon_yoosic | man, and here I thought you were cool. |
| 01:45.52 | Jon_yoosic | Why are you putting XP on it? |
| 01:45.56 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: the laptop isn't mine ;-) |
| 01:46.23 | Jon_yoosic | Are you getting paid to put XP on an otherwise good macbook pro? |
| 01:47.15 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: no, it's the laptop's owner who did it ;-) (his workflow is too tied to windows, and he wants to gradually transition to macos... he's started by stopping using outlook and moving to thunderbird, for instance) |
| 01:47.32 | Jon_yoosic | Ah I see. |
| 01:48.02 | Jon_yoosic | Has he seen parallels? My coworker uses it on his Mac and its amazing, XP windows show up right with Mac windows |
| 01:48.13 | Jon_yoosic | There is no switching, its all in one place. |
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| 01:48.38 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: dunno, it's more of the designer guys who are suggesting things to him... I had never used macosx before |
| 01:49.40 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: (and found it quite easy to use - it's very similar to kde, so things are where you'd expect, after you manage to deal with the openstep-like bar at the bottom) |
| 01:50.46 | cesarb | In fact, the only OS which tends to annoy me is Windows, for some reason... Had to configure wireless in another Win laptop (this time Vista), and UGH |
| 01:50.54 | cesarb | It's hard to find anything |
| 01:51.13 | cesarb | You have to click in dozens of places until you find where in the world the network configuration went |
| 01:51.29 | cesarb | And it's COMPLETELY different from the Windows XP I had just configured moments before! |
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| 01:52.41 | cesarb | With kubuntu I only had to disable/enable the wireless several times until it managed to work (changing the AP's settings while it's connected seems to confuse it a bit), and deal with knetworkmanager crashing (twice) |
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| 01:53.22 | Jon_yoosic | Yea I switchted to Ubuntu at home 4 months ago and at work on my desk about 2 months ago. I don't know how I lived without the command line. |
| 01:53.55 | Jon_yoosic | I'm down to loading windows in a VM about once every 2 days now and I'm not missing it at all. |
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| 02:05.29 | juri_ | its vista. JUST STOP USING IT. |
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| 02:09.07 | cesarb | juri_: well, it's not mine - I just had to configure wireless on it |
| 02:09.54 | cesarb | juri_: mine uses kubuntu (with unallocated space to put XP later if needed - let's see how long can I postpone that ;-) ) |
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| 02:12.47 | cesarb | juri_: hey, sooner or later someone will have to make neo sync/flash applications for vista ;-) |
| 02:13.29 | juri_ | i see you've volunteered. :) |
| 02:13.35 | juri_ | congratulations. :) |
| 02:14.46 | Jon_yoosic | I like Windows Mobile for one reason |
| 02:15.15 | Jon_yoosic | The contact lookup. I like it to the point that I'm going to have a hard time giving up my MPX220 if I can't get another phone with it |
| 02:15.29 | Jon_yoosic | Have you used it? |
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| 02:16.28 | cesarb | juri_: in fact, doesn't libusb and Qt already run on windows? shouldn't be TOO hard to make a portable works-everywhere-Qt-has-been-ported-to sync/flash application... |
| 02:16.38 | Jon_yoosic | I'm not keen on QT |
| 02:16.47 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: no, the only smartphone OS I've used (and not on a smartphone) is Palm's |
| 02:17.33 | Jon_yoosic | The way it works is that you just hit the keypad and it does partial matching. For example pressing "52" matches KAthleen JAmes JAck etc |
| 02:18.42 | Jiten | how does 52 relate to those? |
| 02:18.42 | Jon_yoosic | It is a LOT faster than dorking around with a contacts list |
| 02:19.04 | Jon_yoosic | 5 ~ JKL 2 ~ ABC |
| 02:19.21 | Jiten | ah, right. |
| 02:19.37 | Jon_yoosic | so to find your info I would just have to hit 548 which would match JIT and you'd be in the list |
| 02:19.54 | Jiten | then you're going to love gutsy when it comes out ;) |
| 02:19.55 | Jon_yoosic | its fast and with most of my regular contacts I know 3-4 digits that bring up only that person |
| 02:20.02 | Jon_yoosic | How so? |
| 02:20.18 | Jiten | if you're curious, get the latest beta livecd, start it up and hit alt-f |
| 02:20.21 | Jiten | alt-f3 |
| 02:20.34 | mwester | :p |
| 02:20.37 | mwester | :D |
| 02:21.18 | Jon_yoosic | and QWERT was the predecssor to QWERTY. They hadn't invented vowels yet. |
| 02:21.29 | Jiten | I'll give you a hint, it doesn't just search contacts :P |
| 02:21.41 | kerm|t | i hope openmoko wont force me to type qwerty |
| 02:21.45 | kerm|t | that would be awefully archaic |
| 02:21.51 | Jiten | it searches everything you might want. |
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| 02:22.21 | Jiten | anyway, off to bed |
| 02:22.26 | Jon_yoosic | mwester It shouldnt be that hard to do a new key layout |
| 02:23.02 | Jon_yoosic | I'm still learning OpenMoko, but on most touchscreen devices you would just need to change the image overlay for the keyboard then tweak what is essentially an image map to match the layout |
| 02:23.53 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: wouldn't surprise me if there were no image overlay, and the whole keyboard layout were programatically created |
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| 02:24.06 | Jon_yoosic | hmm |
| 02:24.44 | Jon_yoosic | I prefer having at least a keypad |
| 02:25.44 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: perhaps it's matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod? |
| 02:26.47 | cesarb | "It aims to 'just work' supporting localised, easy to write XML layout configuration files." |
| 02:27.27 | Jon_yoosic | well there ya go |
| 02:27.48 | cesarb | now, I don't know if that's the "new" or the "old" keyboard... |
| 02:28.30 | cesarb | perhaps the "old" one was openmoko-keyboard |
| 02:28.56 | mwester | Actually I just bought a bluetooth keyboard for my Neo - $14 |
| 02:29.15 | cesarb | mwester: I see a keyboard-dvorak.xml |
| 02:29.45 | cesarb | mwester: cool, did you also buy some guitar straps to hang it over your shoulder while typing? ;-) |
| 02:29.49 | mwester | Cool! (It's been so many years that I doubt I could actually type on it anymore, to tell the truth) |
| 02:30.57 | mwester | hehe! I'm gonna duct-tape the Neo to the top of it, back behind the function keys. Should make things much easier. |
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| 02:39.42 | sagacis|snoring | G'day |
| 02:41.10 | Jon_yoosic | hi |
| 02:42.17 | alphabeat | hi |
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| 02:45.41 | Jon_yoosic | was los? |
| 02:45.46 | kerm|t | mwester: i second the motion [for dvorak support] |
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| 02:47.21 | kerm|t | mwester: when i switched to dvorak i did it cold turkey, i was afraid if i went back and forth i'd wind up unable to type in either forever :) |
| 02:47.55 | kerm|t | and switched from pico to vim at the same time, so i didnt have old key command associations |
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| 02:55.47 | mwester | Well, that was anti-climactic. |
| 02:56.01 | mwester | I didn't even lose my environment variables. |
| 02:56.54 | mwester | But at least now I don't have to "nand erase rootfs" all the time. |
| 02:58.05 | sagacis | mwester: So, I should give it a go? |
| 02:58.41 | mwester | Only if you have a debug board. |
| 02:58.49 | sagacis | Nope. |
| 02:59.18 | ajmitch | or if you feel lucky |
| 02:59.47 | ajmitch | I at least know that I can borrow a debug board |
| 02:59.49 | sagacis | Good luck's going to have to visit me sooner or later. Why not this time? |
| 02:59.57 | mwester | I got away with it because of Murphy's law -- I have not only a debug board, but time to figure out how to recover the device this weekend, should it fail. Therefore, of course the u-boot upgrade will proceed perfectly, in accordance with the rules of Murphy. |
| 03:01.02 | ajmitch | if I ever meet that Murphy... |
| 03:04.59 | mwester | Can anyone tell me what avahi-daemon does for us on this phone? |
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| 03:06.36 | cesarb | mwester: probably the same thing as on a desktop? (i.e. service announcements on the wired network, link-local IP autoconfiguration on the wired network...) |
| 03:06.58 | cesarb | mwester: it's probably also used to locate printers or something like that |
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| 03:13.26 | mwester | cesarb: Except that the gta01 has no network at boot time, so all the blasted daemon does is waste time until it times out. I disabled it. |
| 03:16.18 | sagacis | mwester: What's the timeout period? |
| 03:17.10 | mwester | It feels like 10 seconds or more, when you're looking at it. |
| 03:17.19 | sagacis | So, 1 sec? |
| 03:17.23 | mwester | :p |
| 03:17.29 | sagacis | :D |
| 03:17.45 | mwester | Disable the splash screen, you'll see all sorts of stuff that's just slowing the boot. |
| 03:18.40 | Jon_yoosic | Well the clear solution there is to simply create a more pleasing splash screen |
| 03:19.06 | sagacis | Right. If you enjoy the boot screen, you won't mind how long it takes, right? |
| 03:19.07 | mwester | Yep. I'm not a fan of the brown and black |
| 03:19.20 | Jon_yoosic | Just change it up once in a while |
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| 03:21.07 | mwester | Ok, call that panel the "heisen-panel". How do you fix something that works fine whenever you try to debug it? |
| 03:21.32 | sagacis | Ah. Love those. Probably a race condition. |
| 03:21.35 | no_mind | mwester, hit and trial |
| 03:21.52 | no_mind | mwester, alternatively use some maths |
| 03:22.09 | mwester | Well, Elrond tracked it down to the battery applet that segfaults the panel. That helps a lot. |
| 03:22.42 | mwester | I'm just after a phone that boots with the basic services running, each and every time. |
| 03:23.01 | mwester | I think the panel is the only remaining flakey item. |
| 03:23.38 | mwester | bbiab |
| 03:23.55 | sagacis | mwester: I wish I was at your level. The gsm is the most flakey on my phone. :( |
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| 03:54.00 | Jon_yoosic | Dumb question, does the base version of the Neo come with the boards/cables I would need to load software and the OS onto it? |
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| 03:55.28 | sagacis | Jon_yoosic: You can use simple USB cables, one of which comes with the Neo |
| 03:55.32 | sagacis | base version |
| 03:56.27 | Jon_yoosic | Ok. I knew the big kit came with that, but I wanted to be sure that the base model would be useful to me as an app developer. |
| 04:00.40 | mwester | Jon_yoosic: if you want to hack on the bootloader, the debug board is a necessity -- if you want to do kernel work, it's very useful -- if you want to do user-space applications, you really don't need more than the base phone. |
| 04:01.19 | Jon_yoosic | I'm aimed at user space where WiFi is a must, and GPS would be really nice |
| 04:01.47 | Jon_yoosic | 2.5 or 3.5mm headphone jack? |
| 04:01.53 | sagacis | mwester: Yay! Got the gsm registered |
| 04:02.33 | sagacis | mwester: I just removed the battery applet and added gsmd stop/start to the session. |
| 04:02.48 | Jon_yoosic | congrats |
| 04:03.36 | Jon_yoosic | found it 2.5 |
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| 04:10.56 | Jon_yoosic | good chatting with everyone. digging into OpenMoko a little more made me less angry about crappy cell providers in the US! |
| 04:10.59 | Jon_yoosic | Goodnight! |
| 04:11.00 | sagacis | Why do I keep getting network registration messages? |
| 04:11.35 | xamindar | sagacis, about registering your nick? |
| 04:11.47 | sagacis | No, gsmd |
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| 04:28.17 | sagacis | 'night. I'll try using moko gsm tomorrow. |
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| 05:03.48 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 06:30.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Devirginator]] [[Mokostat]] |
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| 07:19.37 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:21.15 | folken | good morning, Hopscotch |
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| 07:44.34 | ScaredyCat | l |
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| 07:45.58 | Fradeve | good morning |
| 07:46.26 | daMaestro | moin |
| 07:46.36 | Fradeve | quick question: where could I find a list of the devices on which OpenMoko actually runs? |
| 07:51.05 | mbuf | Fradeve, FAQ, maybe? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 07:52.37 | Fradeve | mbuf: yeah --- my morning fault :) |
| 07:52.41 | Fradeve | mbuf: thanks |
| 07:52.52 | mbuf | Fradeve, time for coffee? |
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| 07:54.57 | Fradeve | mbuf: probably :D |
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| 08:30.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List]] |
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| 08:55.16 | Fatal | roh: jouston replied again with a boilerplate message, can you please make sure he's trying to bill the VISA card we submitted upon HIS request |
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| 08:58.47 | buz | so early december in best case, that's good, might get a gta02 for xmas then ;) |
| 08:59.10 | buz | i do think you guys should take pre order to know how big the initial run has to be |
| 09:02.08 | rwhitby | buz: still didn't say whether mid-Dec was for P0, P1 or P2 GTA02 devices. |
| 09:02.16 | rwhitby | (so I sent a follow-up question to the list) |
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| 09:05.42 | buz | says shipping |
| 09:05.45 | buz | that would be p1 at least |
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| 09:06.55 | buz | but i did send a followup myseelf ;) |
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| 09:13.40 | Ghiottone|work | gday |
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| 11:31.04 | zefanja | hi... |
| 11:31.06 | zefanja | ... is there anybody who use the Mokomakefile with Ubuntu 7.10? |
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| 11:38.50 | roh | zefanja: well.. its not released yet |
| 11:40.39 | cesarb | I think I saw people on this channel last month with problems compiling on 7.10... might already be all fixed, however |
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| 11:53.32 | sagacis | cesarb: Are you always here? |
| 11:54.06 | cesarb | sagacis: nope... I'm going to work in a few minutes, and will come back only at night |
| 11:54.15 | cesarb | sagacis: but I let my client idling and logging ;-) |
| 11:54.41 | sunix | :) |
| 11:54.41 | sagacis | Ah, just when I'm here. I do the same, but I don't usually respond in the morning. Well, it's late (uct). See ya later. |
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| 12:22.42 | berkus | umm... replying to orders@openmoko.com with [rt.internal.openmoko.bla #bla] subject is ok and will be handled by humans, right? |
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| 12:42.03 | *** topic/#openmoko by jykiv -> http://st-pitch.miniville.fr/env The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update). |
| 12:42.06 | jykiv | 6,3 http://st-pitch.miniville.fr/env |
| 12:42.12 | *** part/#openmoko jykiv (i=Tervuv@modemcable144.186-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 12:42.28 | viq | ugh |
| 12:42.40 | sunix | ... |
| 12:43.26 | roh | what a idiot |
| 12:43.45 | *** topic/#openmoko by roh -> The OpenMoko Project - |
| 12:43.45 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:43.45 | Fatal | spammed a bunch of other channels aswell :/ |
| 12:43.55 | sunix | lol |
| 12:44.02 | *** topic/#openmoko by Fatal -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask ask about GTA02 (December as of last update). |
| 12:44.09 | sunix | :) |
| 12:44.28 | roh | *sigh* |
| 12:44.49 | *** topic/#openmoko by viq -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update). |
| 12:45.13 | viq | s/ask ask/ask/ ;) |
| 12:46.42 | rwhitby | hmm - so after my latest ipkg upgrade, I still need the gsmd restart in /etc/matchbox/session, but now I also need to comment out the battery panel, and now I get a new "Dialer: Error setting antenna power" message on boot. Things just keep going backwards rather than forwards, don't they ... |
| 12:47.59 | sunix | viq: :D |
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| 12:58.23 | *** topic/#openmoko by FuzzyCat -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do ask about GTA02 (December as of last update). |
| 12:58.26 | FuzzyCat | :P |
| 12:58.39 | *** topic/#openmoko by FuzzyCat -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update). |
| 12:59.09 | viq | "Do ask about GTA02 no earlier than in December" ;P |
| 12:59.23 | sunix | :) |
| 12:59.28 | strangelv | At all, or just don't ask about getting one? |
| 12:59.29 | aloril | strangelv: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:00.03 | viq | strangelv: don't ask, just get it ;) |
| 13:00.14 | jeddy3 | why hasn't there been any updated images on buildhost since almost two weeks ago...? |
| 13:00.48 | viq | But seriously, I believe the official stance is "most information about hardware is in the wiki, and as for dates... Most likely in december, don't ask, you won't hear anything else than that" |
| 13:01.41 | viq | development, maybe, but 02 will have much faster processor, and will have graphics acceleration, which 01 doesn't have |
| 13:02.00 | viq | on the other hand, maybe qemu would do, but I am not a good person to answer that question |
| 13:02.14 | strangelv | How much time between 02 initial release and serious marketing? |
| 13:02.35 | strangelv | "in other words, how much of a hurry should I be in |
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| 13:04.17 | FuzzyCat | I wouldn't rush... |
| 13:04.35 | FuzzyCat | you prolly wont be able to get n 02 until march... |
| 13:04.40 | FuzzyCat | ...2030 |
| 13:04.48 | sunix | :) |
| 13:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko sunix (n=sunix@sunix.org) |
| 13:05.45 | viq | FuzzyCat: I'd be optimistic and say "this decade" ;) |
| 13:06.04 | SpeedEvil | IMO. |
| 13:06.26 | SpeedEvil | I think it not unlikely that there will be purchasable hardware in Dec/Jan. |
| 13:06.28 | strangelv | "When I can get it isn't as important as when someone can buy one at Fry's or CompUSA |
| 13:06.42 | SpeedEvil | This will of course be from the website. |
| 13:07.09 | SpeedEvil | I would be astonished if it's in major stores before christmas 2008. |
| 13:07.32 | strangelv | That definitely soundss like 'wait' |
| 13:07.33 | jeddy3 | has anyone tried recent automated.it images? |
| 13:08.03 | SpeedEvil | the current version is fine for development. |
| 13:08.16 | SpeedEvil | Unless you are going to be developing for the accellerometer. |
| 13:08.24 | SpeedEvil | Or doing full-motion video. |
| 13:09.04 | SpeedEvil | And I hope to have some solutions to add an accel to the existing version soon. |
| 13:10.10 | strangelv | "as in a hardware modification? |
| 13:10.13 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 13:10.18 | SpeedEvil | Plug-in easy to use. |
| 13:10.26 | SpeedEvil | User-installable, no soldering. |
| 13:10.32 | strangelv | really |
| 13:11.16 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 13:11.35 | *** join/#openmoko se2 (n=Relindis@mk089144245236.a1.net) |
| 13:12.10 | viq | wow |
| 13:12.33 | strangelv | something with the transflash slot? |
| 13:12.41 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 13:12.52 | SpeedEvil | the debug board connector |
| 13:13.40 | strangelv | here we go |
| 13:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:16.57 | strangelv | jeddy3: are you thinking of using the phone as a remote, or another controlled device? |
| 13:17.33 | jeddy3 | strangelv, maybe, why? |
| 13:17.54 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:18.10 | strangelv | trying to guess what you had in mind |
| 13:19.20 | jeddy3 | strangelv, nothing...just thought that with latest "official" image is dated 11 days ago, i might try something more recent |
| 13:19.42 | juri_ | i actually caught myself extoling the virtues of fortran the other day. |
| 13:19.52 | jeddy3 | strangelv, and automated.it images is more recent =) |
| 13:20.08 | strangelv | :: is looking at the wrong part of automated.it |
| 13:20.33 | jeddy3 | yeah, sorry http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ |
| 13:20.40 | strangelv | FORTRAN, BASIC... there are some aesthetics if you ignore the line numbers and have lowercase |
| 13:20.53 | jeddy3 | didn't bother to write whole link :P |
| 13:21.06 | strangelv | Admittedly, I find all that in Python with note of the headaches |
| 13:21.20 | strangelv | "as well as none |
| 13:21.39 | strangelv | at least none of the ones I'm not too conditioned to not notice |
| 13:22.09 | juri_ | strangelv: i specialize in parallel processing. fortran was better written for parallization, by representing the math in a program closer to its "true form". |
| 13:22.40 | strangelv | noted |
| 13:22.55 | strangelv | how well would it work with 16+ processors? |
| 13:24.43 | strangelv | given how much code there is in FORTRAN and COBOL it's probably important to ensure that newer programmers are at least exposed to them |
| 13:24.51 | juri_ | strangelv: i'm an ex-contributor to openmosix. and i used to port fortran programs to Big systems (256+ CPUs). i re-wrote everything in C as step 1.. but it works. ;) |
| 13:25.00 | strangelv | "or at least, I should say, a measurable if small percentage |
| 13:26.42 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 13:27.06 | strangelv | You're definitely dealing with a far more serious end of things than I've played with. I probably also need to stick to higher level languages |
| 13:27.45 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 13:27.51 | strangelv | "I'm way too unspecialized and get further from the technical path I might have taken in the late 1980s |
| 13:28.03 | *** join/#openmoko X1000 (i=X1000v3@gateway/tor/x-b0ccc6172823782e) |
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| 13:29.37 | XorA | 10 PRINT "I am GOD" 20 GOTO 10 :-D |
| 13:29.47 | strangelv | rule #1 -- don't write any comments -- they eat memory your program needs and slow down execution. I'm told I'm slowly getting less bad, though |
| 13:30.30 | strangelv | At least I didn't acchieve the course I wanted to follow. After all, EVERY serious commercial program is written in hardscoded machine language... |
| 13:37.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3054 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c): |
| 13:37.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/today-task-manager.c: (today_task_manager_kill): |
| 13:37.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Call gdk_flush() before gdk_error_trap_pop() - Hopefully fix crashes |
| 13:37.48 | CIA-23 | openmoko: when closing other apps |
| 13:46.27 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@cpc3-oxfd10-0-0-cust37.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:48.07 | bmidgley | is anyone able to build openmoko? I get stuck on webkit-gtk |
| 13:50.25 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@134.219.80.120) |
| 13:50.58 | bmidgley | i'll see if it helps to take out SRCREV_pn-webkit-gtk ?= "25582" from sane-srcrevs.inc |
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| 14:39.47 | mwester | rwhitby: I have a patch for the "Dialer: Error setting antenna power" problem, and the need to restart gsmd has also gone away with that patch, IIRC. :) |
| 14:41.25 | rwhitby | mwester: is that patch in OE yet? |
| 14:42.19 | *** join/#openmoko icman__ (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:42.34 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host170-210-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:43.26 | mwester | No, it needs to be sent to the gsm list to join the other patches that await there. It's also arguably the wrong way to fix the problem - it restores old behavior for a libgsmd call when the correct fix would probably be to find everyone that calls that routine, and correct the callers. http://pastebin.com/m4bb0710c |
| 14:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178209165.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:45.50 | *** join/#openmoko newsfreak (n=newsfrea@p549416A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:45.56 | rwhitby | mwester: I'd say send an email to gsmd-devel, saying that unles you hear from someone maintaining gsmd within 24 hours, you're going to commit that patch. |
| 14:46.11 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] |
| 14:46.56 | rwhitby | (remember that the fastest way to get a correct patch written by someone else is to commit a working, but incorrect, patch) |
| 14:47.24 | mwester | hehe! |
| 14:47.42 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:47.55 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:48.34 | rwhitby | mwester: I'm serious. this gsmd stuff has gone on too long, and you seem to be the only one in openmoko who is progressing it, so your patch should be committed. |
| 14:48.57 | rwhitby | s/in openmoko/in openmoko inc or the openmoko community/ |
| 14:53.07 | ScaredyCat | hhehehe - you *know* its gone on too long when rwhitby starts moaning about it too ;) |
| 14:55.22 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-245.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 15:01.33 | rwhitby | mwester: do you have an updated package I can ipkg install from your site? |
| 15:01.37 | rwhitby | (where is your site?) |
| 15:02.20 | mwester | http://moko.mwester.net/ |
| 15:02.44 | mwester | I just threw up a few images, no ipkgs (serious trouble uploading due to some issues with my ISP these days) :( |
| 15:03.13 | mwester | I can toss up the libgsmd ipkg, though... |
| 15:03.33 | rwhitby | that would be good - got a fix for the battery panel too? |
| 15:05.24 | rwhitby | I predict that openmoko will announce the new OE person on Monday. |
| 15:06.15 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:06.57 | rwhitby | mwester: 30.1 - nicely done! |
| 15:07.18 | mwester | The panel is a "heisen-panel" -- every attempt to debug it results in it starting correctly at boot. I need to figure an alternate approach to find out what's going on there. |
| 15:08.10 | rwhitby | mwester: I'm taking a slug and the neo on my business trip - a portable hacking station. |
| 15:08.33 | rwhitby | (all works from the usb ports on the laptop) |
| 15:08.37 | rwhitby | (including power) |
| 15:09.20 | mwester | I have been eyeing the nice advanced kit case with xacto knife in hand, to fit in an NSLU2 (only have XP and VMware on my company laptop). |
| 15:09.37 | mwester | Power as well? Cool! |
| 15:09.46 | rwhitby | mwester: I only have XP and wmware too. |
| 15:09.58 | rwhitby | the nslu2 is there to run dfu-util :-) |
| 15:10.03 | mwester | Exactly |
| 15:10.15 | rwhitby | and to be the BT access point for the Treo |
| 15:10.32 | rwhitby | I wonder what the cleaners at the hotel will think of it ... |
| 15:11.05 | mwester | "I wonder what this would fetch at the pawn shop?" |
| 15:11.49 | *** join/#openmoko IamEthos_Work (n=sloann@unaffiliated/iamethos) |
| 15:11.55 | IamEthos_Work | hello! |
| 15:12.11 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin_ (n=musekini@dslb-088-068-015-233.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:12.23 | IamEthos_Work | so I am totally new to OpenMoko, and I am wondering, what service providers will the Neo 1973 work with? |
| 15:12.23 | aloril | IamEthos_Work: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:13.19 | rwhitby | mwester: your patch fixed the antenna error, but didn't remove the need for the gsmd restart in matchbox session. But at least it is now back to the same functionality as two weeks ago, and it's not even Sunday night yet! |
| 15:13.37 | rwhitby | so groundhog day is early this week. |
| 15:13.56 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 15:14.08 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D84EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:15.24 | rwhitby | I'm going to try and get the neo and the treo both to connect via bluetooth to the nslu2, forming a piconet with dund and pand. then I can use the keyboard on the nslu2 to ssh to the neo. |
| 15:15.44 | rwhitby | will also try directly from treo to neo |
| 15:16.06 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@56.84-48-193.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:17.24 | rwhitby | anyway, well past midnight - night all! |
| 15:17.36 | mwester | g'nite |
| 15:17.48 | viq | good night |
| 15:18.07 | IamEthos_Work | okay... so at this point the Neo 1973/OpenMoko doesn't work with any wireless provider? |
| 15:18.20 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@c-69-143-234-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:18.45 | viq | IamEthos_Work: the current model Neo1973 (GTA01) doesn't have wireless (WiFi) |
| 15:19.07 | IamEthos_Work | viq, I mean wireless as in cellular provider |
| 15:19.13 | IamEthos_Work | after all, it is a phone |
| 15:19.27 | IamEthos_Work | wifi isn't a deal breaker for me |
| 15:19.50 | viq | IamEthos_Work: did you check the first link the bot gave you? |
| 15:20.53 | IamEthos_Work | viq, I'm still looking at it now. I just noticed the "Can the software do/connect to/..." with the answer probably not. |
| 15:21.01 | IamEthos_Work | is there something else i should be seeing there? |
| 15:21.34 | IamEthos_Work | oh, I see, under "what kind of connectivity?" |
| 15:22.07 | viq | yes, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_providers_provide_the_GSM_required_for_Neo1973.3F |
| 15:22.35 | viq | yeah |
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| 15:23.03 | IamEthos_Work | viq, any chance Sprint will fit into that list eventually? |
| 15:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 15:24.09 | viq | IamEthos_Work: I have no idea where Sprint is and what kind of service they offer. |
| 15:24.30 | IamEthos_Work | viq, sorry, I figured that was probably too particular |
| 15:24.40 | strangelv | "Sprint is in the United States; does that count? |
| 15:25.12 | viq | strangelv: the main question is "do they provide GSM service?" |
| 15:25.12 | mwester | IamEthos_Work: Sprint does not use GSM. |
| 15:25.48 | mwester | IamEthos_Work: The only GSM carriers (and therefor the only ones compatible with the rest of the world) are AT&T (Cingular) and T-Mobile. |
| 15:25.56 | strangelv | "I was under the presumably mistaken impression the US used one system and most of the world used one of 2-3 others |
| 15:26.21 | strangelv | "So ther's two US carriers that can work with, say, a European phone? |
| 15:26.28 | viq | strangelv: why do you start most of your lines with " ? |
| 15:26.32 | IamEthos_Work | mwester, and OpenMoko devices won't support CDMA? |
| 15:26.37 | mwester | The US uses 4 systems, IIRC. One of which will go away at the beginning of next year. |
| 15:26.38 | IamEthos_Work | or whatever sprint uses |
| 15:26.43 | strangelv | Sorry. years of typing in a MOO compatible MUD |
| 15:26.52 | XorA | yay MOO |
| 15:26.58 | mwester | There are no plans that I am aware of that would have a CDMA version of the Neo. |
| 15:28.00 | mwester | The OpenMoko software is open -- so there's nothing to prevent someone from porting the software to run on a CDMA device (such as perhaps the CDMA version of the Treo 650?)... |
| 15:28.23 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@71-210-184-183.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 15:30.39 | IamEthos_Work | is there any hope that companies might switch to a compatable GSM network? |
| 15:31.00 | IamEthos_Work | like... should i even bother contacting sprint to request local GSM service |
| 15:32.34 | viq | IamEthos_Work: it's huge $$$$, so it's rather "do you plan to?" than "do this" |
| 15:38.13 | *** join/#openmoko costan (n=victor@30-5-64.wireless.csail.mit.edu) |
| 15:39.54 | *** join/#openmoko bextro (n=bextro@pD95FF4BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:39.54 | *** part/#openmoko sid (n=unstable@tor/regular/sid) |
| 15:41.30 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 15:48.20 | berkus | strangelv: "lol, fellow MUDder |
| 15:48.39 | Jiten | IamEthos_Work: you alone contacting them likely won't do much, but if you can set off a chain reaction that causes people to ask for it, it'll work much better :) |
| 15:48.42 | XorA|gone | time for OMOO |
| 15:49.02 | IamEthos_Work | so who wants to call Sprint with me? |
| 15:49.07 | IamEthos_Work | we have 320 people in this channel |
| 15:49.16 | IamEthos_Work | that should make a small dent, at least |
| 15:49.28 | IamEthos_Work | if 320 people can get another 320 peple to call |
| 15:49.33 | Writchie | Maybe you can call Microsoft too |
| 15:49.35 | viq | And you're going to pay me for internatoinal call? |
| 15:49.36 | IamEthos_Work | they will change immediately |
| 15:50.01 | Jiten | most of us can't use Sprint even if we wanted to I'd guess. |
| 15:50.02 | IamEthos_Work | viq, isn't there some free online phone service that lets you do international calls |
| 15:50.18 | viq | dunno, is there? |
| 15:50.58 | Jiten | IamEthos_Work: it needs to be coming from potential (or existing) customers to have an effect. |
| 15:51.11 | Jiten | Someone from Finland, like me, won't have much weight there. |
| 15:51.34 | IamEthos_Work | viq, I guess skype isn't free anymore |
| 15:51.47 | viq | skype is not acceptable. |
| 15:51.56 | IamEthos_Work | Jiten, well you don't admit your from finland |
| 15:53.09 | juri_ | iam: i'm ok with using cingular/at&t, or tmobile. |
| 15:53.16 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin_ (n=musekini@dslb-088-068-015-233.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:53.28 | juri_ | if you really care, start up your own cell carrier. its not that hard, in rural areas. |
| 15:53.40 | juri_ | i could do it myself, for instance. |
| 15:55.19 | *** join/#openmoko fehmicans (n=canavar@88.253.10.71) |
| 15:55.46 | IamEthos_Work | juri_, all to tempting |
| 15:55.49 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin_ (n=musekini@dslb-088-068-015-233.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 16:13.35 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3055 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dates: Add more styling for openmoko-dates |
| 16:15.24 | *** join/#openmoko philippe_bud (i=phil@dsl54007654.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:16.47 | ScaredyCat | juri_: if you do, be sure to over charge yourself for calls, sms messaging and even voicemail.. |
| 16:17.46 | roh | *sigh* .. well cdma is just no free market. there is no carrier i now of who supplies R-UIM (similar to a sim, but for cdma) cards, but all do just with fixed uims in the phones |
| 16:18.42 | mwester | Hi roh! |
| 16:18.46 | roh | which means we could not sell mokos and people can choose their carrier.. so its a no-go.. besides that, the market is relatively small and only interresting for us citicens at all |
| 16:18.51 | roh | hey mwester |
| 16:19.20 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:19.54 | mwester | Any updates on the gllin situation? Can anyone in the community help out in any way? |
| 16:20.27 | roh | well.. not yet. the problem seems that gllin is crashing in the eabi build |
| 16:23.16 | mwester | Ok. If the development is anywhere near the US midwest, I can personally take an OE environment to Broadcom, and sit down with someone there to help debug. |
| 16:26.02 | juri_ | gllin worked for me in a chroot... what are you tracking? |
| 16:26.35 | juri_ | anyways, isnt gllin non-dfsg? shouldnt we be pouring our effort into a gpl'd product? :P |
| 16:27.42 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@129.24.27.25) |
| 16:27.53 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 16:27.53 | bedboi | any news? |
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| 16:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 16:32.43 | mwester | bedboi: News? Well, juri_ will be developing her own cell provider ;) and the only other significant thing is that there's been virtually no commits to OE or SVN for a couple of days at least. |
| 16:33.50 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:33.54 | mwester | juri_: I intend to track me. actually, I have a Garmin, and a cheapo unit, and I just want to compare the results for various normal activities. |
| 16:33.59 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@cable-vrk-fe5cdd00-177.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:35.06 | mwester | juri_: Agree on the open-source stuff. Someone here was well on the way to doing that, but the news that it seems likely the gta02 will use a different chipset altogether has taken the wind out of those sails, so to speak. |
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| 16:36.44 | torpor | i would say that the lack of any sort of OE release schedule has done a lot to take the wind out of peoples sails. |
| 16:37.04 | torpor | its frustrating to see non-progress in the moko tree .. yet a whole lotta hacking going on anyway. |
| 16:38.34 | pH5 | FuzzyCat: eww |
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| 16:46.32 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/sk]] [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] |
| 16:49.13 | juri_ | mwester: so thats why theres no loose paper in meetingrooms... |
| 16:49.14 | mwester | BTW, trivia: Chicago is known as the "Windy City", and got that nickname not from the local weather, but from the a political convention held in the city... |
| 16:50.18 | mwester | juri_: :) Never underestimate the power of a wind-bag at a podium... |
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| 17:14.59 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3056 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c): |
| 17:14.59 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/today-task-manager.c: |
| 17:14.59 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Trap around gdk_window_foreign_new_for_display() and flush before every |
| 17:14.59 | CIA-23 | openmoko: gdk_error_trap_pop(). |
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| 18:16.15 | ossman | I borked my u-boot_env. anyone got a pointer to a fresh one? :/ |
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| 18:24.00 | ScaredyCat | ,.l |
| 18:24.09 | ScaredyCat | http://www.dogsindanger.com/ |
| 18:24.51 | ScaredyCat | particularly 'Time is running out for ...' |
| 18:26.59 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=DaveAnde@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 18:27.06 | prpplague | greetings all |
| 18:28.50 | prpplague | anyone have info on what sdram chipset is being used with the gta02 ? |
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| 18:31.37 | ossman | prpplague, care to share your u-boot_env? :) |
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| 18:34.36 | emre_ | hi folks, is calling with the openmoko-dialer working for someone? |
| 18:34.51 | Aria | Yes. |
| 18:34.58 | Aria | Just made my first reliable calls today. |
| 18:35.07 | ewon | nice |
| 18:35.16 | ewon | 2 way? |
| 18:35.16 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 18:35.40 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: there is no chipset |
| 18:35.42 | emre_ | how? i can make calls with libgsmd-tool but latest svn (compiled a couple minutes ago) but the openmoko-dialer does not run.. |
| 18:35.48 | SpeedEvil | It's driven by the SoC |
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| 18:35.59 | gcb77_w | ossman: I placed the ENV file I used when I un-bricked my NEO to my site... I have no idea where it came from tho: http://www.gcbdev.net/openmoko/env/openmoko_env.bin |
| 18:36.22 | ossman | thanks |
| 18:37.09 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD2DC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:40.07 | ossman | gcb77_w, that image meant to be thrown at mtd1 or mtdblock1? |
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| 18:45.52 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[FreeBSD]] [[Talk:Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[BitBake_recipie]] [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 18:49.33 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@157-236-210-63-arpa.cust.cinci.current.net) |
| 18:49.37 | mwester | emre: do you get the dialog box error at boot, about "cannot set antenna power"? |
| 18:51.30 | emre_ | mwester: no, it just doesn't run. the dialer window is not shown. |
| 18:52.41 | mwester | So the dialer won't even start, then? |
| 18:53.02 | emre_ | no. and I realized that the same happens with the mediaplayer. |
| 18:53.03 | tuukkah | i'm sorry, who in openmoko is Michael Shilo? |
| 18:53.10 | mwester | Try upgrading libmokoui2. |
| 18:53.25 | emre_ | i just built from the sources and flashed it. |
| 18:53.41 | emre_ | by the way the calculator works fine. |
| 18:53.43 | mwester | Yeah, the sources tie libmokoui2 down to an older broken version. |
| 18:53.54 | emre_ | hmm. ok. |
| 18:53.58 | emre_ | let me try. |
| 18:54.11 | mwester | That problem was already fixed, but you need to change sane_srcrevs to get the newer version. |
| 18:54.27 | emre_ | how, is it written somewhere? |
| 18:54.27 | mwester | You can get the ipkg from http://moko.mwester.net |
| 18:54.48 | emre_ | how can i fix it in the source? |
| 18:55.42 | mwester | No, it's not really documented anywhere how to do that. You have to find the "sane_srcrev.inc" file in the openembedded area, find the line that refers to libmokoui2, and change the svn version number to a more recent one. |
| 18:56.57 | mwester | emre_: if you can just install the ipkg on http://moko.mwester.net and confirm that that version of it fixes your problem, I think that will be sufficient of a test to justify committed a new sane_srcrev.inc file. |
| 18:57.17 | emre_ | ok, I'm trying it.. |
| 18:57.38 | mwester | cmmitting, even. |
| 18:57.48 | mwester | Ack. I can't spell today. More coffee! |
| 19:01.07 | SpeedEvil | java! |
| 19:01.44 | emdete | coffein! |
| 19:02.39 | SpeedEvil | 10p/Kwh here ish. |
| 19:02.41 | SpeedEvil | oops |
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| 19:05.05 | tuukkah | hmm someone misspelled the name, it's actually michael shiloh |
| 19:08.37 | gcb77_w | ossman: that image would be flashed from the PC using dfu-util |
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| 19:12.34 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@151.72.88.72) |
| 19:12.47 | Ghiottone | hello mokoers |
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| 19:14.21 | emre_ | mwester: ok it works.. |
| 19:14.39 | *** join/#openmoko khaije1 (n=khaije1@unaffiliated/khaije1) |
| 19:15.05 | emre_ | but by the there is bug out there for months. I wonder why noone is talking about it! when you close the last task the window manager crashes.. |
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| 19:18.13 | mwester | I noticed that as well. And the battery applet randomly crashes the panel at startup. |
| 19:18.22 | mwester | There are still many things to do. |
| 19:22.01 | Ghiottone | mwester, I'd like to try your gsm patches. what was the website again? |
| 19:22.20 | mwester | http://moko.mwester.net/ |
| 19:22.25 | Ghiottone | mwester, thanks |
| 19:23.47 | emre_ | why dont you commit your changes? |
| 19:23.49 | jorgenpt | Any use in using kexec? |
| 19:24.28 | tuukkah | hi Ghiottone! |
| 19:24.44 | Ghiottone | hey tuukkah |
| 19:25.01 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, did you see my progress with bootchart? |
| 19:25.13 | tuukkah | no. is it in wiki? |
| 19:26.08 | Ghiottone | my wiki page and bootchart one |
| 19:26.22 | tuukkah | right, liteboothchart. cool! |
| 19:26.22 | Ghiottone | I optimized bootchart so that results should be more accurate |
| 19:26.47 | tuukkah | now we can actually see the end is not cpu-bound |
| 19:27.36 | Ghiottone | yes |
| 19:27.39 | tuukkah | oh, or is that period after the actual boot? |
| 19:27.48 | Ghiottone | after the boot |
| 19:28.09 | Ghiottone | I did this test with the previous bootchart and even after boot the cpu was at 90% |
| 19:28.20 | Ghiottone | because bootchart is a shell script |
| 19:28.31 | Ghiottone | and so it does a lot of fork and exec |
| 19:28.53 | tuukkah | did you notice you can put in a process name whose appearance tells bootchart that the boot is over? |
| 19:29.10 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:29.24 | Ghiottone | yes my first test was with openmoko-dialer in it |
| 19:29.32 | Ghiottone | that's why my first bootchart stopped there |
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| 19:29.57 | Ghiottone | but then I prefer to remove it to check the cpu usage of bootchart |
| 19:30.32 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, ok, actually it also makes sense because then we get to see how long the dialer and all are churning before it's all really done |
| 19:31.29 | tuukkah | so we can say the boot ends at 130s? |
| 19:31.31 | mwester | emre_: I'm not an openmoko employee, I'm just a guy who happens to be able to commit to the OE repository in general. I think it's a fine line between justified commits from the community, and chaos, and I'm trying to be very cognizant of the potential issues. |
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| 19:32.22 | LarstiQ | mwester: imo, dvcs is the anwser |
| 19:32.45 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, that's more realistic than 180s obtained with the previous bootchart |
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| 19:33.02 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, but I'll bet it is even less |
| 19:33.37 | tuukkah | right, because bootchartd is still taking some 50% cpu |
| 19:34.06 | Ghiottone | yeah |
| 19:34.39 | Ghiottone | there is some pidof processes; sleep and probably some other things loop |
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| 19:35.12 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, anyway, if you want to try it yourself, I have packaged it with the litebootchart name and put it in my repo |
| 19:35.42 | tuukkah | good to know |
| 19:36.17 | bedboi | damn gnet |
| 19:36.21 | bedboi | and giochannels |
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| 20:00.01 | PP|Spydon | on https://direct.openmoko.com/ they say that theyre buildning new neo's but is it GTA01 or GTA02 neos? |
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| 20:01.11 | prpplague | ossman: i'm not using u-boot |
| 20:01.37 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: that doesn't seem likely from what i can tell |
| 20:01.37 | xaid|work | PP|Spydon: they're GTA01. |
| 20:01.41 | thomasg | PP|Spydon: afaik its another bunch of gta01 |
| 20:02.00 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the s3c2442 seems to only be available with 64mb as part of the multi layer SoC |
| 20:02.10 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 20:02.14 | PP|Spydon | What does afaik mean ^^ |
| 20:02.18 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: that means an external sdram chip will be needed for the additional 64mb |
| 20:02.22 | SpeedEvil | What doesn't seem likely? |
| 20:02.34 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: as I understaqnd it, that's what's happening. |
| 20:02.48 | viq | PP|Spydon: "As Far As I Know" |
| 20:02.49 | thomasg | a TI OPAM3430 would be cool in one of the next generations :) |
| 20:02.56 | PP|Spydon | thx viq :P |
| 20:02.59 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: so which chipset are they using? SEC? ISSI? micron? |
| 20:03.02 | thomasg | *omap |
| 20:03.16 | PP|Spydon | so it wont be any gta02 for dev preview? |
| 20:03.46 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: as I understand it, there is an internal SDRAM chip on the SoC - and an external one too. |
| 20:04.06 | SpeedEvil | The internal one is just connected across the bus like an external one. |
| 20:04.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: right, the question is what manufacturers external sdram |
| 20:04.26 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: right i'm familiar with the s3c2442 |
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| 20:05.04 | SpeedEvil | why does it matter? |
| 20:05.29 | SpeedEvil | SDRAM is SDRAM is SDRAM. |
| 20:05.37 | roh | prpplague good question.. i could find that out if it changes anything, but yes, there is external sdram as well |
| 20:05.38 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ha you are funny |
| 20:06.03 | SpeedEvil | There is little difference between brands of SDRAM - as long as it works. |
| 20:06.10 | prpplague | roh: i've just completed a series of tests with the s3c2440 and s3c2442 running mobile sdram at 1.8v |
| 20:06.15 | SpeedEvil | Finding model numbers that works are important of course. |
| 20:06.21 | prpplague | roh: there seems to a giant diversity of combatibility |
| 20:06.50 | prpplague | roh: so far, micron's has been almost useless at 1.8v with the 2440/2442 |
| 20:07.16 | SpeedEvil | 1.8V SDRAM would be very nice. |
| 20:07.45 | prpplague | roh: microns MT48H32M16LF does seem to work, however the SEC K4M51163PC |
| 20:08.02 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the 2442 is internnal set at 1.8v so the external sdram will have to operate at 1.8v as well |
| 20:09.06 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: ah - I diddn't realise it was a hardware question, thought you were asking from a software POV - as most would be. |
| 20:10.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea software wise, other than some timming issues, sdram will pretty much be the same from one device to the next |
| 20:10.27 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: however 1.8v sdram support was add only in the second round of silicon for the 2440 and 2442 |
| 20:10.33 | *** join/#openmoko der_io (n=der@p54A0E8AB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:10.35 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: which means that it possibly might be buggy |
| 20:10.40 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 20:10.43 | roh | prpplague i think its a samsung one |
| 20:11.43 | prpplague | roh: which would make sense based on my testing, just wanted to have some confirmation |
| 20:11.48 | SpeedEvil | Undervolting the existing GTA01 looked interesting - but the PMU is very coarse resolution. |
| 20:11.54 | SpeedEvil | Which is a pity. |
| 20:11.58 | roh | prpplague i think there were test with k4m51323pc, and ive not heard of something wrong with it (yet) |
| 20:12.10 | SpeedEvil | The CPU _almost_ works at 1.5V |
| 20:12.17 | SpeedEvil | ethernet and audio drop out for some reason. |
| 20:12.46 | prpplague | roh: ahh, good deal, might want to put a note in someones mail box about the fact that we've been totally unsuccessful with the 1.8v micron sdram |
| 20:12.53 | roh | SpeedEvil i would assume pll instabilitys at that voltage |
| 20:13.02 | SpeedEvil | roh: Hmm, plausible. |
| 20:13.18 | SpeedEvil | 'ethernet' being USB of course. |
| 20:13.29 | SpeedEvil | At 1.8V it seems stable |
| 20:13.36 | SpeedEvil | and that is in fact what's on the datasheet |
| 20:13.52 | SpeedEvil | Why it's running at 2.1V, I'm unsure. (less that's been fixed) |
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| 20:21.54 | LarstiQ | thomasg: even an arm11 would be nice |
| 20:23.55 | thomasg | LarstiQ: the omap3340 is powered by a arm11-compatible cortex a8 |
| 20:24.48 | LarstiQ | thomasg: I hadn't seen 'cortex a8' before. |
| 20:25.11 | LarstiQ | thomasg: the availibity disclaimer doesn't look good though :/ |
| 20:25.12 | thomasg | LarstiQ: is the newest arm-technology afaik |
| 20:25.17 | thomasg | up to 1000 mhz |
| 20:25.31 | thomasg | (but very expensive I guess) |
| 20:27.31 | |R | so we could have a binary compatibility between OpenMoko and Nokia's N800 ? :) |
| 20:28.03 | thomasg | I think binary compatibility is not really needed - but it wouldn't be bad |
| 20:28.44 | |R | at least for things that won't be too platform/hardware specific (shell programs i guess ;) |
| 20:28.53 | *** join/#openmoko psymin (n=psymin@smtpstatic.blackfoot.net) |
| 20:38.53 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 20:39.32 | roh | binary compatibility is totally overrated... |
| 20:39.35 | roh | ;) |
| 20:39.59 | juri_ | uhm, i'd prefer it. :P |
| 20:40.20 | roh | well.. gives you more trouble than gain in my eyes.. see the gllin stuff |
| 20:40.46 | juri_ | if i had an infinite army of monkeys, i'd port my openmosix work to migrate processes between my openmoko, and a hypothetical n800 with a shield. :P |
| 20:40.53 | roh | or the eabi/oabi conversion. .. gllin as bad and the oabi->eabi switch as positive one |
| 20:41.48 | roh | s/one/example/ |
| 20:41.56 | juri_ | hmm. as long as chroot()s work, i guess. :) |
| 20:42.19 | roh | juri_ well.. 'works' and 'solution' are 2 different pair of shoes |
| 20:44.24 | juri_ | i care about things working. :) |
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| 20:46.14 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Solar_power]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973/ru]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 20:47.37 | *** join/#openmoko X1000v2 (i=X1000v3@gateway/tor/x-6de7992066ec958c) |
| 20:49.39 | Aria | Heh, Binary compatibility rocks. But most of the advantages are lost with the current build system |
| 20:53.58 | prpplague | roh: we also have some small s3c2410 boards we just started marketing for the hobby sector - http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board |
| 20:57.54 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-145-61.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 21:02.32 | viq | They're priceless! |
| 21:04.03 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: $149 single qty, $229 for a complete kit with jtag, cables, wall-wart, carrier board, and cpu board |
| 21:04.13 | SpeedEvil | That's not horrible. |
| 21:04.17 | Aria | Nice |
| 21:04.21 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: they go on sale third week of october |
| 21:05.01 | juri_ | not bad. |
| 21:05.51 | SpeedEvil | I like the form factor. |
| 21:06.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, it was intended to be hobby related with the .1" pinout |
| 21:06.20 | SpeedEvil | I assume the host/slave ports are port A and B? |
| 21:06.31 | SpeedEvil | or rather, both host, one host/device? |
| 21:07.10 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: one usb port is a dedicated host, the second port can be configured as either host or slave |
| 21:07.43 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: basically the same core as the gta01 |
| 21:07.47 | SpeedEvil | Do you have power numbers anywhere? |
| 21:08.05 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 21:08.09 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: depends on what you are using it with, but you can run as low as 40mA |
| 21:08.16 | SpeedEvil | @5v? |
| 21:08.19 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: max i've seen is around 180mA |
| 21:08.32 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea |
| 21:08.35 | SpeedEvil | Is that slow mode? |
| 21:09.03 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: no, normal mode running at 202.5mhz |
| 21:09.12 | SpeedEvil | @40mA? |
| 21:09.27 | torpor | prpplague: where do i place an order? |
| 21:09.34 | SpeedEvil | 'will go on sale' |
| 21:09.40 | SpeedEvil | (not quite yet) |
| 21:09.50 | prpplague | torpor: http://www.tincantools.com |
| 21:10.02 | prpplague | torpor: third week in october |
| 21:10.05 | torpor | ok |
| 21:10.08 | torpor | thx for the details. |
| 21:10.22 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea if you running just basic i/o you can get it down to 40mA |
| 21:10.22 | torpor | i will get one. will be nice to put into a synth or something .. ;) |
| 21:10.46 | SpeedEvil | Nice. |
| 21:10.46 | prpplague | torpor: indeed, we will also be holding some contests in the spring |
| 21:11.06 | SpeedEvil | Not quite ideal. I'd like one in DIP20, for $14, taking 4mA :) |
| 21:11.14 | prpplague | hehe |
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| 21:11.24 | SpeedEvil | No numbers in slow mode? |
| 21:11.52 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: no, this first release wasn't really intended as a low power edition |
| 21:12.09 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: we have a Hammer-LP in the works designed for extra low power |
| 21:12.22 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: basically designed to run on two AA batteries |
| 21:12.48 | torpor | prpplague: contets as in what people do with them? |
| 21:12.57 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@71-215-210-103.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 21:13.22 | prpplague | torpor: yes, projects with documentation with prizes like free hardware |
| 21:13.33 | SpeedEvil | Fun. |
| 21:13.37 | torpor | well count me in |
| 21:14.04 | SpeedEvil | I really would like in addition a uclinux system maybe 1/5th as fast. |
| 21:14.05 | torpor | i'm sitting here with ipodlinux running on my ipodvideo, open2x on my gp2x, openmoko on the neo, OE on my zaurus .. |
| 21:14.08 | torpor | ;) |
| 21:14.21 | SpeedEvil | and really low power. |
| 21:14.29 | torpor | what i would like to see next with embedded linux: self-hosting full-system build kits. |
| 21:14.50 | torpor | i.e. the death of cross compiling (coz everything is built already by the mfr...) |
| 21:15.01 | SpeedEvil | Well - it's gonna be some time. |
| 21:15.04 | torpor | and no i don't mind waiting a few days for a kernel compile to complete. ;) |
| 21:15.22 | SpeedEvil | It's not that bad. |
| 21:15.31 | SpeedEvil | Even building the kernel on P100 is bearable. |
| 21:15.43 | SpeedEvil | So, it takes a couple of hours? |
| 21:15.43 | prpplague | torpor: yea we've discussed maybe having a web based service where you could choose you configs and let it spit out some binaries for you |
| 21:15.50 | torpor | i remember the days of compiling linux on a 386-20mhz, so .. |
| 21:16.06 | SpeedEvil | I think the lowest I've used is 386sx/16 |
| 21:16.19 | juri_ | i've run linux on a ibm pc. |
| 21:16.29 | SpeedEvil | uclinux surely? |
| 21:16.35 | juri_ | ELKS. :) |
| 21:16.38 | SpeedEvil | ah. |
| 21:16.43 | juri_ | Embedded Linux Kernel Subset. :) |
| 21:17.07 | SpeedEvil | I've been concentrating on uclinux recently. |
| 21:17.18 | Ghiottone | is bcc part of ELKS? |
| 21:17.20 | SpeedEvil | there are several small processors that have no MMU. |
| 21:17.23 | juri_ | i used to *so* enjoy working on small compilers. :) |
| 21:17.26 | SpeedEvil | But are cheap and low power. |
| 21:17.29 | torpor | juri_: me too |
| 21:17.30 | juri_ | ghio: someone remembers! :) |
| 21:17.58 | Ghiottone | I've used bcc to create a boot loader for my hobby os :) |
| 21:18.07 | Ghiottone | end I remeber it used elks-libc |
| 21:18.11 | Ghiottone | or something like that |
| 21:18.15 | juri_ | right! :) |
| 21:18.20 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=orzo@70.89.88.195) |
| 21:18.55 | juri_ | as/after the whole elks project died, i re-wrote bcc with a "make menuconfig" style interface, for using various compiler components to compile for all sorts of systems... |
| 21:19.02 | juri_ | *sigh*... youth. :) |
| 21:19.06 | orzo | All the free software hosting sites should network together and distribute their load |
| 21:20.17 | Ghiottone | juri_, eheheh |
| 21:20.31 | Ghiottone | orzo, yeah, maybe in a p2p way |
| 21:20.41 | orzo | ya |
| 21:21.09 | orzo | im more interested in speed than security |
| 21:21.09 | orzo | heh |
| 21:21.24 | orzo | its just that i dont have much way of knowing which sites are operating near capacity |
| 21:21.37 | orzo | without going around trying them all |
| 21:24.32 | torpor | up until the end of last year, i was working for a company integrating music features into a custom linux distribution for an arm-based system .. |
| 21:24.37 | torpor | stopped working for them. |
| 21:24.51 | torpor | and would like to continue to do that sort of work with systems like the hammer board, neo, gp2x, etc. |
| 21:25.04 | *** join/#openmoko iceghost (n=a@189.163.6.102) |
| 21:25.12 | torpor | cross-compiling is a nightmare when you have to do modules, libs, and apps .. |
| 21:25.39 | torpor | so i would love to see an embedded ARM vendor ship their systems with *real* distro onboard, just like the good ol' days, and let the end-developer remove what they don't need.. |
| 21:26.46 | Ghiottone | what is the svgz file format? |
| 21:26.57 | torpor | compressed SVG |
| 21:27.00 | Ghiottone | bootchart has suddenly started using it instead of png... |
| 21:28.02 | torpor | thats good. |
| 21:28.19 | torpor | easier to maintain the graphics code if its emitting SVG, i'd imagine. less dependency |
| 21:28.35 | Ghiottone | but I can't upload it to the wiki |
| 21:28.44 | torpor | render to bitmap then |
| 21:28.55 | torpor | use inkscape to open the file, then tell inkscape to render it to bitmap |
| 21:29.03 | torpor | or do it on the cmdline (inkscape) |
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| 21:32.10 | Ghiottone | I've found a -f format switch for bootchart :) |
| 21:32.20 | Ghiottone | strangely the png one looks better |
| 21:32.50 | Ghiottone | the svg seemed to have overlapping text ... |
| 21:33.05 | bedboi | anyone has ever used GUnixSocket's ? |
| 21:33.18 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-69-66.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 21:38.31 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, svg renderers are a lot like html renderers: not pixel-perfect, and somewhat buggy |
| 21:38.47 | torpor | use cairo |
| 21:38.49 | torpor | works great |
| 21:39.18 | tuukkah | cairo isn't an svg renderer is it ?-) |
| 21:40.25 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-45-79.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 21:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 21:44.15 | dtx | Hey.......like.......when is GTA02 coming out? |
| 21:44.28 | viq | dtx: check out the topic |
| 21:44.33 | dtx | I know |
| 21:44.36 | dtx | I'm just being a douche |
| 21:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@219-89-45-79.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 21:44.53 | dtx | I'm kicking myself for not getting one of the GTA01 |
| 21:45.32 | viq | heh |
| 21:45.38 | viq | I'll wait for 02 |
| 21:45.49 | dtx | I wish I had it know |
| 21:45.55 | dtx | now |
| 21:46.20 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, I see. there is a new bootchart on my page. it uses the optimized bootchart, no ldconfig and portmap |
| 21:46.32 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@pcp028813pcs.wireless.calpoly.edu) |
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| 21:49.09 | dtx | Are GTA02 specs solidified yet? |
| 21:49.10 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, litebootchart2, 125s? |
| 21:49.15 | LarstiQ | dtx: nafaik |
| 21:49.28 | dtx | man |
| 21:49.29 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, yes |
| 21:49.44 | dtx | This thing might have a camera and flip out keyboard before the day is over |
| 21:49.59 | *** join/#openmoko costan (n=victor@c-65-96-160-67.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:50.04 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, only five seconds better |
| 21:51.05 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, well, it's 4% |
| 21:51.16 | SpeedEvil | GTA02 specs are pretty much solid. |
| 21:51.25 | SpeedEvil | Nothing will change unless things go badly wrong. |
| 21:51.43 | dtx | does it have bluetooth? |
| 21:51.46 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 21:51.57 | SpeedEvil | bluetooth, wifi, ... |
| 21:51.59 | dtx | good good |
| 21:52.30 | *** join/#openmoko costan_ (n=victor@c-66-30-24-171.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:52.30 | dtx | so I can hook up a keyboard, excellent |
| 21:52.45 | dtx | cuz I know I won't be able to type anything on that screen |
| 21:53.04 | CVirus | dtx: the finger keyboard is very easy to use |
| 21:53.51 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, would seem jffs2, pulseaudio and openmoko-today are hogging cpu |
| 21:54.04 | dtx | finger keyboard? |
| 21:54.12 | dtx | I thought you needed a stylus |
| 21:54.22 | dtx | realistically |
| 21:54.39 | CVirus | dtx: and there is a finger keyboard implemented too :-) |
| 21:54.56 | dtx | I guess I need to make myself a new qemu image |
| 21:55.02 | CVirus | dtx: http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/finger-keyboard/ |
| 21:55.24 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, yes. I think I'll try to get rid of these bootchart's pidof |
| 21:55.37 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, I wonder what is pulseaudio doing... |
| 21:57.54 | dtx | weird I was just thinking of an implementation like this the other day |
| 21:58.03 | dtx | glad to see I wasn't the only one |
| 21:59.20 | Ghiottone | CVirus, how do you use it? |
| 21:59.40 | CVirus | Ghiottone: just download it on your PC and give it a try |
| 22:00.03 | CVirus | Ghiottone: you'll find the usage description on the page |
| 22:00.19 | Ghiottone | CVirus, pc? is it not for neo yet? |
| 22:00.43 | CVirus | Ghiottone: it's implemented in python so I guess it won't make any difference |
| 22:00.56 | dtx | Neo is essentially a PC anyways since its running Linux |
| 22:01.04 | psymin | So, I'm a clueless hobbiest. I'd like to experiment with coding a minor app for OpenMoko. I should be able to use qemu and MokoMakefile (with handholding from the wiki) to achieve this before getting a Neo? |
| 22:01.14 | dtx | I can't download keyboard-0.8.2.tar.gz |
| 22:01.21 | dtx | should I not use that one |
| 22:01.23 | dtx | ? |
| 22:01.40 | CVirus | gtg |
| 22:02.34 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, worth researching indeed. i'm also beginning to wonder if it would make sense to write a c program that produces the log |
| 22:02.53 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, I already did the C program |
| 22:03.27 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, litebootchart contains a c program that creates two of the bootchart log files |
| 22:03.59 | tuukkah | cool. i thought you said optimization :-) |
| 22:04.24 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, well, it is faster now, isn't it? :D |
| 22:04.31 | dtx | wow this key2key works pretty well |
| 22:05.02 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, I'm thinking about making it write /proc/*/stat as well |
| 22:05.09 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, ok, some heavy-handed optimization then |
| 22:05.54 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, currently it does only output /proc/stat and /proc/diskstats |
| 22:06.35 | tuukkah | /proc/*/stat is a major task. we could try to run completely without that part |
| 22:07.12 | Ghiottone | what do you mean? |
| 22:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^` (n=user@mail.mondueri.com) |
| 22:07.34 | dtx | python octakey.py |
| 22:07.37 | dtx | whoops, wrong window |
| 22:07.40 | dtx | hehe |
| 22:08.05 | tuukkah | isn't it used to get the color of the process bars? we could try without the colors, and see how much the remaining info changes |
| 22:08.32 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-145-61.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 22:10.43 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, I think that it is what gives information on what each process is doing each moment |
| 22:11.15 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, it is not that hard to do it in c. just a bit boring |
| 22:12.53 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, yeah, but is it needed for anything else than the process bar color? it's of course worth to try in c too, but the problem might simply be the amount of data collected |
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| 22:13.39 | tuukkah | anyway, i'm too tired now. talk to you later! |
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| 22:15.27 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, ok nite :) |
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| 22:25.33 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242354404.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:28.54 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03abraxa * r3057 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/src/persistent.c: Fixed bug #897: Use home directory if OMP_DEFAULT_FILE_CHOOSER_PATH doesn't exist |
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| 22:47.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Alessandro]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Solar_power]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 22:56.13 | bmidgley | is anyone getting mokomakefile to complete? |
| 22:57.07 | bmidgley | what do you get from 'grep webkit openembedded/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc' |
| 22:57.53 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-187-197.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:10.10 | orzo | hm |
| 23:10.18 | orzo | anybody ever do anything involving bountysource.com? |
| 23:10.38 | orzo | they provide subversion hosting but also infrastucture for putting bouties on feature requests |
| 23:10.43 | orzo | bounties |
| 23:17.11 | orzo | i wonder if the emphasis on bounties would hurt an embryonic free software project? |
| 23:19.59 | cb22 | money makes the world go round... happiness makes the jurney more pleasnt |
| 23:20.06 | cb22 | or the other way around ^-^ |
| 23:20.58 | orzo | im reading this opinion: http://oasis.dit.upm.es/~jantonio/documentos/articulos/bounty.html |
| 23:21.10 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 23:23.13 | orzo | seems convincing |
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| 23:58.04 | Ghiottone | anyone can tell me what is the best way to have the list of files in a dir from a c program? |
| 23:58.15 | Ghiottone | possibly using only linux syscalls |
| 23:59.02 | dkr | Ghiottone: opendir readdir |
| 23:59.45 | Ghiottone | those are libc functions |