| 00:01.02 | bedboi | if you don't release it's ok to do anything you want |
| 00:01.12 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54953082.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:01.20 | SpeedEvil | Like google |
| 00:01.28 | SpeedEvil | they apparently have lots of forked stuff. |
| 00:01.35 | SpeedEvil | but don't release it as they don't need to |
| 00:01.40 | SpeedEvil | (AIUI) |
| 00:03.31 | cb22 | thanks |
| 00:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.82) |
| 00:08.47 | *** join/#openmoko FreshPrince_ (n=FreshPri@79-138.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 00:08.51 | FreshPrince_ | hi @all |
| 00:09.13 | FreshPrince_ | is that possible to install openmoko on samsung? |
| 00:09.13 | aloril | FreshPrince_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:09.49 | abraxa_ | FreshPrince_: OpenMoko runs on a Samsung SoC, so this is a yes. |
| 00:10.12 | SpeedEvil | FreshPrince_: at sometime in the future, yes. |
| 00:10.13 | FreshPrince_ | abraxa_ wel i have here a |
| 00:10.17 | SpeedEvil | Or if you write drivers. |
| 00:10.18 | FreshPrince_ | samsung SGH-D500 |
| 00:10.22 | FreshPrince_ | realy old :) |
| 00:10.35 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, there is no support at all for any other platforms other than what users do |
| 00:10.45 | FreshPrince_ | hmm ok |
| 00:10.49 | SpeedEvil | It needs 64M RAM and 64M ROM at least |
| 00:10.50 | sagacis | ~ |
| 00:10.58 | SpeedEvil | there is barely support at the moment for the main hardware |
| 00:11.06 | abraxa_ | I hope my answer made it clear that your question was way too vague to answer it properly |
| 00:11.28 | FreshPrince_ | well thx |
| 00:12.02 | SpeedEvil | Basically, come back maybe (I guess) July or so if you want some support officially of other devices. |
| 00:12.05 | SpeedEvil | (at a guess) |
| 00:12.24 | SpeedEvil | As to when other devices might sort-of-work - it depends |
| 00:12.29 | FreshPrince_ | july next year'? ;) |
| 00:12.39 | FreshPrince_ | ok |
| 00:12.42 | SpeedEvil | at the moment, if you can get it to boot linux, you can try installing it yourself. |
| 00:12.50 | SpeedEvil | but this is very much a developer only thing |
| 00:12.59 | FreshPrince_ | ok |
| 00:13.17 | SpeedEvil | The core team at the moment is 20 or so people. |
| 00:13.28 | SpeedEvil | And they are concentrating on releasing hardware at teh moment. |
| 00:13.32 | sagacis | Good morning (uct) I have bitbake/quilt/mokomakefile questions. Any takers? |
| 00:13.40 | SpeedEvil | And getting the base software non-crap. |
| 00:13.53 | FreshPrince_ | allright |
| 00:14.00 | FreshPrince_ | thx for the information SpeedEvil |
| 00:14.02 | SpeedEvil | Sorry :/ |
| 00:14.15 | abraxa_ | sagacis: *waves* - I wanna try :) |
| 00:16.22 | sagacis | abraxa_, thanks. I followed the instructions on the "Developing with MokoMakefile" on the wiki. I ended up with a patch in a strange place, and the paths in the patch file seem wrong. When I build-package-neod, nothing is built. I assume I did something wrong... |
| 00:17.57 | sagacis | After quilt new..add steps (in the $OMDIR/openmoko directory), I modified source code in openmoko/trunk/src/../neod/src directory... |
| 00:18.07 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@85-211-21-215.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:18.29 | sagacis | When I ran "quilt refresh", the patch was created in the $OMDIR/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ directory and the series file updated. |
| 00:18.43 | sagacis | How is the build supposed to know about the patch? |
| 00:21.17 | abraxa_ | Hmm |
| 00:21.29 | abraxa_ | Honestly I don't know, I'm afraid |
| 00:22.10 | *** join/#openmoko mib_force (i=mib_forc@2001:1638:17a5:0:0:0:0:20) |
| 00:22.19 | abraxa_ | I don't know why the OpenMoko SVN repo gets pulled anyway since bitbake pulls the individual packages from SVN anyway |
| 00:24.52 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: I'm currently redesigning the UI for the media player - mind telling me your thoughts? http://dar-clan.de/mediaplayer_compact.jpg / http://dar-clan.de/mediaplayer_expanded.jpg |
| 00:25.03 | abraxa_ | (anyone else is welcome, too, of course) |
| 00:25.17 | anrp | volume buttons way too small |
| 00:25.37 | anrp | slider ought to be thicker |
| 00:25.43 | anrp | yo have to remember the massive dpi ~_~ |
| 00:26.18 | Mek | I guess for such mock-ups 240x320 would make more sense than using 480x640 to get an idea of how it will look... |
| 00:26.23 | abraxa_ | anrp: The buttons will be put in an eventbox so the actual touching area is bigger than the icons - and the slider... I'll actually make it smaller since it'll be non-draggable |
| 00:26.26 | tRubl | Is it possible to grab motion on ths screen instead of having to have sliders? |
| 00:27.06 | mjr | you mean these things we call "drags"? |
| 00:27.10 | tRubl | slide up and down for valume, left and right for rw and ff? |
| 00:27.11 | mjr | of course |
| 00:27.14 | SpeedEvil | I think it has to support full-screen drags. |
| 00:27.17 | abraxa_ | tRubl: Doable, yes... good idea |
| 00:27.26 | SpeedEvil | I do not want to look at teh screen when doing stuff |
| 00:27.50 | tRubl | With a full screen moivie, for example, in landscape mode, there's no real room for controls :) |
| 00:27.57 | cb22 | still looks nice though |
| 00:28.00 | cb22 | good work :) |
| 00:28.18 | SpeedEvil | stroke-right, next track, stroke-up less volume |
| 00:28.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Alessandro]] [[Bootcharts]] [[File_transfer]] |
| 00:28.28 | SpeedEvil | stroke up fast, much less volume, ... |
| 00:29.18 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: why up to turn volume down? |
| 00:29.40 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil, tRubl: I like the idea and will use it - thanks for the input :) |
| 00:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko jott (n=j@e179006079.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:31.36 | tRubl | I have a quesiotn concerning the debug board, the wiki says check the usb id...should it respond to a dfu-tul --list? |
| 00:31.54 | tRubl | dfu-util --list even'' |
| 00:32.06 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Any idea how I can bring the screen to doublesize mode under X - of if that's even possible already? |
| 00:32.36 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: sorry - no idea |
| 00:32.42 | abraxa_ | okay thanks =3 |
| 00:32.48 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: meh |
| 00:32.55 | sagacis | abraxa_: What's the handle on the left side? |
| 00:32.58 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: it was an example, poorly thought out |
| 00:33.21 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 00:33.30 | abraxa_ | sagacis: Clicking on that handle expands the play controls and reveals additional buttons (shuffle/repeat/settings/etc) |
| 00:33.58 | sagacis | Cool. What's the difference between the two finger buttons (the tab and the button that is) |
| 00:34.00 | sagacis | ? |
| 00:34.18 | Writchie | One needed feature is when display is off we must reject the first touch instead of acting on it. |
| 00:34.25 | Writchie | qtopia bad in this regard |
| 00:34.57 | sagacis | Writchie: I agree. I keep launching apps when trying to wake the screen. |
| 00:35.12 | Writchie | worse when you're on a call |
| 00:35.29 | mwester | +1 for that idea. |
| 00:35.57 | abraxa_ | sagacis: The button is for "player settings" but doesn't have its own icon yet : |
| 00:35.58 | ljp | you dont want the touchscreen to resume or turn on the screen. what happens when its in your pocket? |
| 00:35.58 | abraxa_ | :) |
| 00:35.58 | sagacis | On the openmoko dialer, the answer button is too small, methinks. When I get a call, the answer touch area should be nearly the whole screen. |
| 00:36.30 | sagacis | abraxa_: Ah. Makes sense. I haven't been able to get the player to load a playlist yet, but I haven't worked on it much. |
| 00:36.41 | sagacis | I'm mostly concerned with getting the phone parts working. |
| 00:37.24 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123.243.236.35) |
| 00:37.25 | abraxa_ | sagacis: The latest buildhost image has an old SVN revision where the player expects /root/playlists to expect - newer revisions create it on their own |
| 00:38.09 | sagacis | I'll update and try again. I haven't put much music on the device yet. Saving my pennies for a 6gb microsd card. |
| 00:38.26 | abraxa_ | I opted for a 2GB one. I was desperate to try :) |
| 00:39.04 | sagacis | It's either a 6gb card or an air conditioner for my car..... It's getting cooler every day! |
| 00:39.10 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 00:40.00 | sagacis | abraxa_: How do you develop against the codebase? Do you bitbake to build? |
| 00:40.28 | abraxa_ | sagacis: Yup - "bitbake foo -c compile" |
| 00:40.37 | u_l-lap | sagacis: trade your car for a bike and get an 8G ;-) |
| 00:41.01 | sagacis | u_l-lap: I would, but I work 50 miles away from home and the 8gb's aren't out yet. |
| 00:41.28 | u_l-lap | sagacis: that's only a four hour one way commute ;-) |
| 00:41.43 | sagacis | Surely I could get a couple 8gb's for my Porsche |
| 00:42.56 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.216.205) |
| 00:42.58 | sagacis | abraxa_: What about debugging? |
| 00:43.05 | abraxa_ | sagacis: gdb :) |
| 00:43.30 | sagacis | abraxa_: Thought so. Nothing easy... |
| 00:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z7a7d.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:44.27 | abraxa_ | Depends on how you see it - it suits my usual work style so I'm happy with it |
| 00:45.12 | sagacis | I"m more used to integrated processes, but I can work with it. It hearkens back to days of yore. |
| 00:45.21 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro|isBack (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 00:46.27 | jaebird | sagacis, maybe 2! |
| 00:47.15 | abraxa_ | sagacis: That's what I think about OE/SVN sometimes, too... sure do wonder what happened to the times when people were testing commits locally before submitting them |
| 00:47.40 | sagacis | ouch. That's what I was saying just this morning. |
| 00:47.53 | sagacis | "open source" means test on everybody else's device first? |
| 00:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 00:48.31 | *** join/#openmoko gabau1 (n=gabe@c-67-167-84-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:51.16 | Writchie | not even a sorry I broke 100 people's build's the've been running for last 8 hours |
| 00:52.09 | jaebird | "womm" |
| 00:52.23 | sagacis | abraxa_: Ok, I know something's wrong. I can make big errors in the code, but they aren't pulled in when I build. I guess it's back to the bitbake manual. |
| 00:52.25 | u_l-lap | do you have to rebuild all of the software every time or something? |
| 00:52.36 | *** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 00:52.51 | sagacis | u_l-lap: Nah. It doesn't really take too long if you keep your cache current. |
| 00:53.21 | abraxa_ | u_l-lap: Nope but imagine letting it run overnight to work with the result the next day, just to find out it stopped in the middle because of some untested commit |
| 00:53.30 | u_l-lap | lame |
| 00:53.49 | abraxa_ | sagacis: I feel with you, heh |
| 00:54.51 | *** join/#openmoko gcarrier (n=gcarrier@cl-190.bru-01.be.sixxs.net) |
| 00:54.57 | u_l-lap | how can someone commit a *build* error! |
| 00:55.11 | u_l-lap | where I come from people are flogged for doing that |
| 00:55.13 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 00:55.14 | sagacis | bitbake doesn't make it easy |
| 00:55.38 | sagacis | I'm for SURE not going to commit a build error. I can't get my code to even get INTO the build. |
| 00:55.43 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 00:55.54 | Writchie | sagacis: lol |
| 00:56.45 | u_l-lap | bitbake looks lame |
| 00:57.45 | u_l-lap | now that I have more bandwidth than a 40k/s gprs modem I suppose I should install the OE build env |
| 00:57.57 | jaebird | u_l-lap: don't worry all of the bitbake police are on vacation :) |
| 00:58.03 | jaebird | open season! |
| 00:58.35 | u_l-lap | wow it doesn't support fetching darcs repos |
| 00:58.42 | u_l-lap | when I release stuff I'll be yelled at |
| 00:59.59 | sagacis | crap. Still can't figure out how to build my code. I'm gonna go watch Bionic Woman instead. I think I can work the tv remote. |
| 01:00.45 | abraxa_ | bitbake does have nice features but it's the lack of documentation/tutorials and the *need* for developers to dive into the depths of OE that make it so frustrating |
| 01:00.57 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-248-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:01.07 | u_l-lap | I think I've just been spoiled by asdf |
| 01:01.57 | u_l-lap | I guess at least bitbake isn't autotools |
| 01:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko guest__ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 01:06.24 | *** join/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@24-117-66-51.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:06.38 | *** join/#openmoko foomil__ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-076-237-013.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ip-81.48.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net) |
| 01:09.48 | sagacis | I need a myth box so I can skip commercials. |
| 01:10.25 | *** join/#openmoko viq (n=viq@cl-2190.ham-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 01:11.11 | shipman | who doesn't? |
| 01:12.41 | u_l-lap | sagacis: read books |
| 01:16.21 | *** join/#openmoko drath (i=vmaster@p5B07D69E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 01:19.12 | *** part/#openmoko gabau1 (n=gabe@c-67-167-84-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:20.14 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@gwfm4-3-205.802.cz) |
| 01:24.12 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.82) |
| 01:25.50 | *** part/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@24-117-66-51.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:32.40 | sagacis | u_l-lap: Nah, I keep a laptop handy and build over remote |
| 01:33.09 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 01:33.38 | u_l-lap | sagacis: even better! read gutenberg books ;-) |
| 01:34.37 | *** join/#openmoko binaryspike (n=BinarySp@206-113-021-047.plateautel.net) |
| 01:35.15 | binaryspike | wow lots of people on openmoko channel :) |
| 01:38.47 | juri_ | all idle. :) |
| 01:42.56 | *** join/#openmoko cheriff (n=davidm@221.199.209.30) |
| 01:46.06 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ip-81.48.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net) |
| 01:46.39 | abraxa_ | juri_: That's an unverified claim ;) |
| 01:47.01 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@gwfm4-3-206.802.cz) |
| 01:48.22 | binaryspike | well... counting only one person has talked since he said that... |
| 01:48.44 | Writchie | most are busy trying to fix their builds ;) |
| 01:48.45 | u_l-lap | moo |
| 01:49.39 | mwester | moo? |
| 01:49.48 | Writchie | actually fewer in here than normal |
| 01:50.47 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953A935.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:51.59 | u_l-lap | mwester: the CowBot goes moo |
| 02:03.12 | binaryspike | I did have a question about the OpenMoko... anybody know how long it's gonna be before we get a USA version? |
| 02:03.29 | binaryspike | cause if it's more than 2 years... that iphone looks pretty good right now =-P |
| 02:03.51 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 02:04.02 | abraxa_ | binaryspike: What do you regard a "USA version"? |
| 02:04.05 | juri_ | binary: i have one, and am in the usa. what do you mea, usa version? |
| 02:04.08 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton (n=vicente@212.166.192.134) |
| 02:04.12 | juri_ | CDMA? |
| 02:04.13 | binaryspike | Something I can make calls on |
| 02:04.19 | binaryspike | Like to friends and such |
| 02:04.29 | juri_ | i've made calls with mine. |
| 02:04.41 | binaryspike | radio or wifi? |
| 02:04.41 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 02:04.49 | juri_ | GSM. real phone calls. |
| 02:05.06 | binaryspike | how did you do that? |
| 02:05.18 | juri_ | i installed the software, and used it. :) |
| 02:05.21 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 02:05.23 | abraxa_ | binaryspike: In about half a year the phone will be usable for day-to-day tasks, currently it is not stable enough for that |
| 02:05.31 | *** join/#openmoko hadara (i=hadara@2001:7d0:0:1:2d0:b7ff:feb7:f667) |
| 02:05.42 | binaryspike | Juri, does it cost? |
| 02:05.48 | binaryspike | I mean, don't you need a provider for that? |
| 02:06.06 | juri_ | i borrowed a friend's sim chip, plugged it in, associated, and started dialing. |
| 02:06.16 | binaryspike | I see |
| 02:06.28 | juri_ | it dosent sound quite right.. but it works. |
| 02:06.31 | *** join/#openmoko Writchi1 (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 02:06.51 | binaryspike | so basically if I wanted to use it, I would go down to a cell phone provider and get a SIM chip? |
| 02:06.57 | juri_ | right. |
| 02:07.03 | mwester | :p ;) |
| 02:07.17 | binaryspike | Thanks Juri |
| 02:07.20 | binaryspike | you answered just about all my questions :) |
| 02:07.38 | juri_ | its still at the "rigged demo" stage. :P |
| 02:07.49 | mwester | binaryspike: US providers are AT&T and T-Mobile |
| 02:07.52 | juri_ | i personally havent bought service. |
| 02:08.15 | juri_ | because it'd crash, and be buggy, and lose my icons and such.. but the "rigged demo" does function. :) |
| 02:08.20 | *** join/#openmoko RedDog (n=reddog@mastersword.de) |
| 02:08.27 | juri_ | mwester: where did you get it? |
| 02:08.28 | sagacis | juri_: I have a better sound setup. Sounds good. Just crashes now and then |
| 02:08.54 | mwester | T-Mobile stores can provide the SIM - they'll try to sell you a phone with it. |
| 02:09.02 | mwester | So I just went to ebay |
| 02:09.11 | binaryspike | juri_, There is a company down here that provides cell phone and internet through AT&T |
| 02:09.12 | sagacis | mwester: I have an update on your images... They didn't seem to work for me. Never got GSM to turn on at boot today. |
| 02:09.25 | juri_ | binary: cingular is atnt. :P |
| 02:09.30 | mwester | sagacis: Thanks. Odd. |
| 02:09.58 | binaryspike | juri_, they aren't cingular =-P |
| 02:10.01 | sagacis | I might try to reflash to make sure it's all good. I still haven't updated my u-boot (no debug board), but I did clean erase before flashing. |
| 02:10.34 | binaryspike | Anyway gotta go, thanks for all the information. |
| 02:11.18 | mwester | sagacis: The only known problem is that the battery applet causes the panel to crash at startup. |
| 02:11.20 | sagacis | mwester: Does your rootfs image have the ui rollback? I got a LOT of segmentation faults when booting or doing anything else. |
| 02:11.35 | mwester | sagacis: did you flash *both* rootfs and kernel? |
| 02:11.37 | sagacis | mwester: I think the panel was working mostly. |
| 02:12.14 | sagacis | mwester: Yes, but it was late. I reflashed the kernel earlier today, but I'm going to reflash the rootfs. |
| 02:12.36 | sagacis | I usually modify it right after flashing to put in stuff I like (scripts, sound states, etc) |
| 02:12.45 | sagacis | After all, that's the point. |
| 02:13.08 | mwester | Ok. I patched the kernel, so I felt obligated to bump the rev number on the kernel. But that results in the modules on the rootfs also having to match the kernel, so you need to flash a matched pair. |
| 02:13.43 | mwester | I'm having second thoughts about that, it's a pain, and strictly speaking one doesn't need the kernel patches if you don't mess with gsmd. |
| 02:13.55 | sagacis | Right. I'll match them. I first tried to use the patched kernel I built using your patches and instructions. |
| 02:14.55 | mwester | Ah. The binary will match, but the module versioning doesn't know that -- it will look at the "r2" of the standard kernel build, and it won't match the "r2.1" that they were built with. |
| 02:15.46 | sagacis | The kernel I build was r2.1 also to match your rootfs. Everything else worked, just no gsmd. |
| 02:16.50 | sagacis | I was able to launch QTopia on that build tho. That was pretty neat. I need to figure out how to launch the qtopia gsm stack. |
| 02:17.29 | Writchi1 | segacis: i think qtopia just goes direct to the modem |
| 02:17.53 | Writchi1 | if you launch it from the script it should work |
| 02:17.54 | sagacis | hm... It said "Searching for provider..." all day |
| 02:18.04 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:18.06 | sagacis | The init.d script? |
| 02:18.37 | Writchi1 | i think so - let me look |
| 02:19.11 | Writchi1 | init.d/qpe |
| 02:20.01 | sagacis | Yup. I copied that into my openmoko image (mwester's really) and symlinked /opt from the sd card. It launched, but I had gsm problems and couldn't register at that point. |
| 02:20.27 | Writchi1 | sagacis: you must make sure to shutdown gsmd first - this can be a problem with some kernels |
| 02:20.45 | sagacis | I'll try again after the flash finishes |
| 02:21.42 | Writchi1 | we probably need a little framebuffer based session manager |
| 02:22.28 | sagacis | Writchie: not a bad idea. |
| 02:22.45 | Writchie | could laund qtopia, openmoko, or sff |
| 02:23.04 | sagacis | I could use the uboot for that, no? |
| 02:23.25 | Writchie | you could but this takes a long time |
| 02:23.45 | sagacis | I'd normally boot to om, but I also use this as my primary phone during the day, so I want to be able to receive calls reliably. |
| 02:24.00 | sagacis | Although if the gsm fix works.... |
| 02:24.16 | sagacis | I kind of like the qtopia keyboard and autocomplete. |
| 02:24.35 | Writchie | not thumb dialable |
| 02:24.52 | sagacis | Not the dialer, the alpha keyboard |
| 02:24.53 | Writchie | really need a 10 key input method |
| 02:25.05 | sagacis | For one handed operation? |
| 02:25.09 | Writchie | alpha needs two hands to be usable |
| 02:25.13 | sagacis | yes. |
| 02:25.18 | Writchie | i always need to text with one hand |
| 02:25.26 | sagacis | Driving and texting? |
| 02:25.33 | sagacis | Or, what ARE you doing with your other hand? |
| 02:25.43 | Writchie | it's occupied |
| 02:26.23 | Writchie | for half the world a phone is a one handed device |
| 02:27.22 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@78.54.217.207) |
| 02:27.48 | Writchie | sagacis: its faster to type a message on a wii than the qtopia keyboard |
| 02:28.59 | sagacis | I don't know about that. You can fat-finger it pretty well. Hopefully it guesses the word list you want. |
| 02:29.31 | sagacis | The OM keyboard is too tiny to easily use without a stylus, and I'm too lazy to dig it out of my pocket half the time. |
| 02:29.50 | sagacis | OK, booting mwester's yesterday images now. |
| 02:30.51 | *** join/#openmoko Stikman_ (n=aman@67.135.148.97) |
| 02:34.06 | sagacis | mwester: Question mark in the gsm panel applet, "Waiting for Network Registration" in the dialer... |
| 02:34.18 | sagacis | mwester: nothing odd in the gsm.log |
| 02:34.35 | mwester | That's what's supposed to happen. |
| 02:34.49 | sagacis | gsmd is running |
| 02:35.02 | mwester | Once it registers with the network, you'll get the signal strenght display. |
| 02:35.10 | sagacis | OK. How long does it take to register? |
| 02:35.49 | mwester | Mine does it in a minute or less. |
| 02:36.02 | sagacis | Mine has always registered in a few seconds. |
| 02:36.18 | sagacis | Still not registered after 5 minutes. |
| 02:36.18 | mwester | You can try to help it along by selecting the items off the menu from the little antenna icon... |
| 02:36.25 | sagacis | I did those. |
| 02:36.30 | mwester | Ah, ok. |
| 02:36.35 | sagacis | libgsmd-tool no help either |
| 02:36.58 | sagacis | We have a cell repeater in our building at work. It didn't register all day. |
| 02:37.26 | sagacis | From the gsm.log: Wed Sep 26 21:35:17 2007 <1> usock.c:1542:gsmd_usock_user_cb() EOF, this client has just vanished |
| 02:37.28 | cesarb | sagacis: pastebin the gsm log? |
| 02:37.33 | sagacis | sure |
| 02:38.47 | sagacis | http://cl1p.net/gsm.log |
| 02:40.10 | sagacis | gsmd is gone now |
| 02:40.57 | sagacis | /etc/init.d/gsmd start resulted in four segmentation faults |
| 02:41.39 | cesarb | sagacis: looks like the modem didn't answer at all :( |
| 02:41.52 | sagacis | That's unhappy. :( |
| 02:42.03 | sagacis | I'll try with cu |
| 02:42.10 | *** join/#openmoko rEdcArp_yu (n=yyu@211.103.237.2) |
| 02:42.15 | cesarb | sagacis: the applet might have tried to register, but without the modem there... do you have the recent changes to disable echo in /etc/init.d/gsmd? |
| 02:42.39 | sagacis | I"m running mwester's images, so if he had them.... |
| 02:43.01 | cesarb | sagacis: look for the stty -F "$GSM_DEV" -echo strategically placed in that script |
| 02:43.01 | mwester | sagacis: when did you pull the images down, exactly? |
| 02:43.30 | cesarb | sagacis: if it's not there, the problem might be the same we were having before that change, and testing with that change would be a good idea |
| 02:44.04 | sagacis | Not sure, but the image time is 18:45-19:09 yesterday |
| 02:44.46 | sagacis | cesarb: I'd gladly do it if I could figure out how to build with patches confidently |
| 02:44.52 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03olv * r3050 10/developers/olv/ (. Is): Create personal directory |
| 02:45.29 | mwester | sagacis: Can you generate the md5sum for the image, so I can figure out exactly which one you have? |
| 02:45.51 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 02:45.51 | sagacis | Sure. I checksummed against your md5's OK |
| 02:46.11 | sagacis | a707d6642e72fb46bf3a2e151098e486 OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070925-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 02:46.27 | sagacis | 3ae882b016e5e949101b0e4585a14710 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r2.1-fic-gta01.bin |
| 02:46.28 | cesarb | sagacis: I use a local overlay (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay), which makes building with patches as easy as building normally (just copy the recipe, add +cesarb1 to its PR and add the patches to it, and recompile) |
| 02:46.55 | mwester | Ok, that's current. It has the echo fix, as well as the libgsmd fix and the flow control fix in it. |
| 02:47.03 | sagacis | I was going to try that, but decided to avoid a tongue-lashing by koen |
| 02:47.15 | sagacis | Wierd. |
| 02:47.45 | sagacis | ttySAC0 is the modem, right? I'm getting "Line in use" |
| 02:48.10 | mwester | That's really weird. Have you made any changes to the image since booting it the first time? |
| 02:48.15 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03olv * r3051 10/developers/olv/ (5 files in 3 dirs): New directory tracking Xglamo development |
| 02:48.20 | sagacis | Nope. This is the first boot since flashing. |
| 02:48.51 | mwester | what do you get from a ps -ef command? |
| 02:49.32 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 02:49.36 | sagacis | http://cl1p.net/psef/ |
| 02:51.00 | mwester | Do you have the console disabled in uboot? |
| 02:51.22 | sagacis | Yes, come to think of it. ttySAC0 is disabled in uboot |
| 02:51.33 | sagacis | Should I put it back? |
| 02:52.09 | mwester | You can try that - it's not necessary to do a saveenv command, just boot with the console enabled. |
| 02:52.32 | sagacis | Ok. It'll take a few minutes (love that slow boot...) |
| 02:53.02 | abraxa_ | Heya olv - nice to see another developer find his/her home in SVN :) |
| 02:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@user-0cdft28.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:57.55 | mwester | sagacis: Disabling the console entirely duplicated the problem here. |
| 02:59.26 | sagacis | Never shutdown completely, either |
| 02:59.43 | mwester | Yeah, I see that too. |
| 03:00.55 | mwester | I get the distinct impression that something went wrong when I patched that kernel. |
| 03:01.22 | sagacis | booting now |
| 03:02.42 | *** join/#openmoko rhijaen (i=hai2u@24-231-165-41.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 03:03.24 | *** part/#openmoko rhijaen (i=hai2u@24-231-165-41.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 03:03.54 | sagacis | Hey, my modem's responding. :-) |
| 03:04.18 | sagacis | "radio power up failed" :( |
| 03:04.24 | *** join/#openmoko x_fight81 (n=filippo@host106-55-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 03:05.09 | *** join/#openmoko VUGO (i=vugo@gateway/tor/x-f6468c654faf84bf) |
| 03:05.14 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-235-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:05.42 | sagacis | http://cl1p.net/gsm.log/ |
| 03:06.36 | sagacis | +CME: ERROR 23 |
| 03:19.47 | cesarb | sagacis: 23 is "memory failure"? |
| 03:21.11 | sagacis | cesarb: Hmph. Not good, I guess. |
| 03:22.03 | sagacis | could it be a simcard prob? |
| 03:22.35 | cesarb | sagacis: I don't see that error in that log |
| 03:22.54 | sagacis | It came later, after I was messing with the panel applet |
| 03:23.12 | cesarb | sagacis: 23 looks more like something to do with phonebook/sms/whatever memory, which is a unlikely answer for a modem powering up command |
| 03:23.58 | sagacis | strange then. I shouldn't have anything on the sim to care. OK. I'll just keep trying. |
| 03:24.46 | cesarb | sagacis: it looks like, looking at that log, gsmd got confused in the middle |
| 03:24.59 | cesarb | ERROR is not a common answer for AT+CFUN=1... |
| 03:25.17 | cesarb | not after extender error messages are enabled, at least |
| 03:26.05 | sagacis | When I did it through cu, cfun=1 returned OK, COPS=0 never returned |
| 03:26.25 | sagacis | thought I'd try qtopia symlinked in |
| 03:26.41 | sagacis | qtopia worked dandy now. |
| 03:27.55 | sagacis | almost dandy. Never connected the call. :( |
| 03:28.08 | cesarb | sagacis: are you sure it's not just lacking sound? |
| 03:28.09 | sagacis | "network registration denied" |
| 03:28.20 | sagacis | Oh, yeah. I forgot |
| 03:30.04 | sagacis | OK. Much better. |
| 03:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@124.82.41.208) |
| 03:31.16 | sagacis | So, fyi, qtopia runs fine in an openmoko image |
| 03:31.32 | ljp | with a few bugs |
| 03:32.05 | sagacis | perhaps... |
| 03:32.14 | sagacis | ljp, does dtmf work in qtopia? |
| 03:32.43 | mwester | Ok, I need to make a minor change in the flow-control kernel patch to handle the case where there's no defined console. :) |
| 03:32.50 | mwester | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171) |
| 03:34.29 | ljp | sagacis: yes, it should. except yesterday I found a bug where it started a second call, but sent them anyway |
| 03:36.51 | sagacis | ljp, I called my other phone and disconnected before answering. Qtopia told me I had missed a call (it's in the missed calls list) |
| 03:38.21 | sagacis | ljp: also, for some reason, I just got a text message from _@@sms with a body of an html reference to nothing. |
| 03:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@dsl-67-55-3-101.acanac.net) |
| 03:39.08 | ljp | ya, data sms doesnt work on neo yet, as we havent implemented multiplexing yet |
| 03:39.24 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 03:39.57 | notserpe | I'm really tired of this qtopia thread |
| 03:40.36 | sagacis | notserpe: heh sorry. Waiting for an update from mwester, but OM's not registering my gsm today. |
| 03:41.04 | notserpe | oh, I don't mean here, I mean on the community list. |
| 03:41.08 | notserpe | I just got in tonight |
| 03:41.17 | ljp | delete button helps |
| 03:41.22 | sagacis | Oh. I haven't looked at the community list recently. |
| 03:41.22 | mwester | sagacis: Don't wait for me. Looks like OE is going to rebuild half the world for me. |
| 03:42.06 | sagacis | mwester: I don't know why the gsm won't start on my phone. |
| 03:42.38 | mwester | well, can you reboot, and pastebin the output from "dmesg" -- that'll tell us if the kernel module is causing any problems with the console re-enabled. |
| 03:42.49 | sagacis | Sure. |
| 03:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko brannfenix (i=brannfen@ip68-230-133-70.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 03:43.42 | sagacis | I wonder if my lid will start falling off my phone before log. I pop the top and pull the battery a lot. |
| 03:44.11 | notserpe | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:45.16 | ljp | we were talking about free software |
| 03:45.20 | ferric | i have come to realize that there are a lot of idiots on community. |
| 03:45.50 | ljp | and, IMHO, LGPL is not about encouraging free software |
| 03:46.24 | sagacis | http://cl1p.net/sagacis.dmesg/ |
| 03:46.53 | ferric | who'se running qtopia on their neo? |
| 03:47.06 | mwester | Ok, what ails your phone is not the flow control patch at this point. |
| 03:47.10 | sagacis | I'm running both. |
| 03:47.29 | mwester | Never-the-less, I'll update the patch to support both console and no-console situations. |
| 03:47.57 | sagacis | mwester: flow-control not allowed? |
| 03:48.05 | ljp | ferric: me! |
| 03:48.05 | rwhitby | ljp: I agree - LGPL is the FSF's concession to the closed-source world. |
| 03:48.18 | ferric | ljp: heh - of course you are. :P |
| 03:48.41 | rwhitby | I'm running QT on one, and OM on the other. |
| 03:49.08 | sagacis | panel didn't make it up on this boot |
| 03:49.44 | mwester | Yeah, I saw that in the dmesg - it got an alignment trap. The battery applet is the problem (thanks to Elrond for figuring that out) |
| 03:50.14 | mwester | If you edit the /etc/matchbox/session file to remove the battery applet from the panel options, it'll work every time. |
| 03:50.37 | sagacis | mwester: OK. My CFUN=1 failed again |
| 03:50.45 | ferric | does qtopia let you make calls? |
| 03:50.51 | ljp | yes |
| 03:50.52 | sagacis | ferric: Yes. |
| 03:50.54 | ferric | actually, does OM let you make calls? |
| 03:50.59 | mwester | Yep. |
| 03:51.00 | sagacis | ferric: not mine. |
| 03:51.11 | mwester | I've made a few calls - works ok. |
| 03:51.25 | sagacis | ferric: OM worked for me last week OK. Now no joy again. |
| 03:51.26 | mwester | Still lots of work to do, but it's getting much closer in the past week or two. |
| 03:51.36 | ferric | gotcha. |
| 03:51.41 | rwhitby | both make and receive calls. |
| 03:51.52 | ferric | nice. |
| 03:51.58 | sagacis | :( |
| 03:52.08 | ferric | sagacis: your qtopia won't let you make calls? |
| 03:52.25 | sagacis | ferric: qtopia works, OM doesn't. |
| 03:52.25 | mwester | So which uboot version allows one to skip the "nand erase rootfs" bit? |
| 03:52.37 | sagacis | mwester: latest, at least |
| 03:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@78.54.217.207) |
| 03:53.20 | mwester | yeah, I suppose I could just reflash -- I have the debug board. But I'm busy enough with other stuff, now is not a good time to learn to recover the neo. |
| 03:53.36 | mwester | rwhitby is pretty good at it, though :) |
| 03:54.07 | ferric | heh |
| 03:54.14 | sagacis | heh heh... |
| 03:54.15 | ferric | sagacis: so why not keep using qtopia? |
| 03:54.31 | sagacis | ferric: It doesn't have the apps I've written. |
| 03:54.37 | ferric | ah |
| 03:54.38 | sagacis | It doesn't have gprs tools |
| 03:54.40 | ferric | *nods* |
| 03:54.41 | sagacis | it doesn't have web |
| 03:54.46 | dcordes | yuck, qt |
| 03:54.54 | doc|home | any word on gta02 release dates yet? |
| 03:54.57 | sagacis | pretty icons, tho |
| 03:55.03 | rwhitby | doc|home: 2009 I heard. |
| 03:55.10 | ferric | mwester: that would be nice. |
| 03:55.10 | ferric | like xdm |
| 03:55.10 | doc|home | o.O |
| 03:55.13 | doc|home | you're joking? |
| 03:55.16 | rwhitby | yes |
| 03:55.16 | sagacis | I ran the panel-applet in my ssh -X and now have the panel on my host |
| 03:55.30 | rwhitby | but that's as good as anyone else's estimate. |
| 03:55.30 | ferric | sweet |
| 03:55.35 | mwester | That should be up in the topic at this point, it's certainly a FAQ... |
| 03:55.35 | doc|home | rwhitby: ever woken up with a horse's head in your bed? :( |
| 03:55.38 | doc|home | ;) |
| 03:55.48 | rwhitby | see my email to the community list. |
| 03:56.05 | doc|home | I should sign up for that, I'm only on the announce list |
| 03:56.13 | rwhitby | the simple fact is that they don't have final hardware yet, so there is no way there can be a general release for at least three months IMHO |
| 03:56.16 | mwester | sagacis: Cool, but I'm not sure how practical it is for a phone... ;) |
| 03:56.19 | *** topic/#openmoko by ferric -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02. |
| 03:56.27 | ferric | there. |
| 03:56.29 | doc|home | rwhitby: that sucks :( |
| 03:56.36 | doc|home | ferric: heh |
| 03:56.36 | mwester | Well that wasn't what I had in mind. |
| 03:56.39 | rwhitby | doc|home: that's hardware development |
| 03:56.42 | sagacis | mwester: I can carry my host around with a long extension cord. At least I'll be able to keep the battery full. |
| 03:56.48 | mwester | hehe! |
| 03:56.51 | ferric | mwester: topic unlocked, feel free to change. |
| 03:56.56 | doc|home | rwhitby: yeah, :/ so it'll be 4/5 minimum :/ |
| 03:56.57 | rwhitby | the software will take even longer at the rate the gsmd problem is being fixed ... |
| 03:57.29 | ferric | someone needs to rewrite gsmd from the ground up |
| 03:57.39 | ferric | someone that knows what they're doing, that is. |
| 03:57.45 | ferric | and have access to the firmware. |
| 03:57.46 | sagacis | ouch |
| 03:57.53 | rwhitby | I believe Trolltech are doing just that ;-) |
| 03:57.59 | sagacis | heh |
| 03:58.17 | ferric | rwhitby: by calling it the lgpl'd libgsmd? :) |
| 03:58.46 | rwhitby | ferric: you've got it all wrong. trolltech releases dual licensed gpl/commercial phone stack for neo |
| 03:59.02 | ferric | ! |
| 03:59.12 | rwhitby | they don't release lgpl stuff as far as I know (and I may be wrong, but ljp will correct me if I am) |
| 03:59.28 | rwhitby | ferric: why ! ? |
| 03:59.59 | rwhitby | Trolltech is a business. As such, they need to make money. Their business model seems to be GPL for open source developers, and commercial for commercial developers. |
| 04:00.18 | rwhitby | It's a common business model for companies that work in the open source space. |
| 04:00.33 | ferric | rwhitby: i didn't know that - sorry, i've been buried under Real WorkTM |
| 04:00.35 | ljp | no lgpl from Trolltech |
| 04:00.59 | roh | rwhitby common for some, but troublesome |
| 04:01.03 | ferric | for some vague reason i thought qt used to be lgpl. |
| 04:01.04 | sagacis | ljp, whats the little number keyboard when qtopia boots? |
| 04:01.04 | rwhitby | ljp: please feel free to correct if I'm misrepresenting anything here. |
| 04:01.25 | ljp | sagacis: pin code thingy I think |
| 04:01.36 | rwhitby | roh: that may be so, but the company doing the work gets to choose their business model, and people should respect that, or use something else. |
| 04:01.37 | sagacis | ah. Don't use that. |
| 04:01.38 | ljp | rwhitby: spot on |
| 04:02.04 | sagacis | rwhitby: It's way better than the traditional Proprietary model, methinks. |
| 04:02.37 | rwhitby | it's clear that OpenMoko and Trolltech represent two different companies with two different business models. Both are valid, both have good points and bad points depending on an individual's circumstances and ideology. |
| 04:02.46 | roh | rwhitby i respect that fully. but it should be said that this limits the possibilitys of community-involment massively |
| 04:02.59 | ljp | not really |
| 04:03.34 | rwhitby | roh: again it depends on the ideology of the people contributing, whether they are comfortable signing copyright over for dual licensing or not. |
| 04:03.48 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@s216-232-85-137.bc.hsia.telus.net) |
| 04:03.58 | rwhitby | one shouldn't assume that all open source developers have the same ideologies. |
| 04:04.07 | roh | ljp well.. i still have no answer to how you can accept patches under gpl from the community without the patch-writing party submitting its copyright to trolltech |
| 04:04.24 | ljp | roh: depends on the patch |
| 04:04.34 | rwhitby | roh: patche to GNU Emacs are exactly the same - you need to sign copyright over to the FSF, |
| 04:04.42 | ferric | qt is whoa. I didn't mean to start a holy war. |
| 04:04.42 | rwhitby | (I know, I've had to do it) |
| 04:04.47 | ferric | qt is cool, look at kde. |
| 04:04.52 | ferric | :) |
| 04:05.03 | ljp | bah! qt is a bunch of trolls |
| 04:05.12 | ferric | heh |
| 04:05.17 | roh | ljp japp. e.g. it rules out linking directly to gpl code in the commerical variant. it only allows simple patches or signed papers |
| 04:05.22 | rwhitby | the thing is that you can't have arguments over people's ideologies. you can never come to a single answer. |
| 04:05.31 | roh | no pun or harm intended |
| 04:06.52 | rwhitby | open source developers need to realise that there are many different type of open source, not all of which are acceptable to the FSF, and many of which have different business models behind them. |
| 04:07.16 | ferric | rwhitby: so -- if TT came out with a gpl'd gsmd, then why doesn't OM use it? |
| 04:07.27 | ljp | TT doesnt use gsmd |
| 04:07.28 | roh | rwhitby jap. too sad so much licensing stuff and legal details are involved |
| 04:07.32 | ferric | rwhitby: and do you have a link to this gpl'd gsmd, or is it the one that is part of qtopia? |
| 04:07.40 | ferric | ljp: yes, i remember you said that last week |
| 04:07.49 | ferric | ljp: how does qtopia do gsm functions, then? |
| 04:08.04 | ljp | not by gsmd |
| 04:08.13 | rwhitby | ferric: because the business model of OpenMoko requires basic infrastructure to be LPGL'd so that commercial people can use it without needing to release their source code. |
| 04:08.14 | ferric | heh |
| 04:08.23 | ljp | we have own out libraries for gsm/communications |
| 04:08.24 | ferric | oh! |
| 04:08.33 | ferric | ljp: that are gpl'd? |
| 04:08.41 | ljp | ferric: yes |
| 04:09.34 | ferric | wait. |
| 04:09.42 | ljp | qtopia has been in development for ~ 7 years |
| 04:09.44 | ferric | The commercial license allows the final application to be licensed under various free software/open source licenses such as the LGPL or the Artistic License, or a proprietary software license <- from the QT Wikipedia page |
| 04:09.58 | ferric | ljp: yep, i know. i was around when the familiar folks were hacking ipaq's. :) |
| 04:10.15 | ljp | ahh ok |
| 04:10.33 | ferric | rwhitby: so theoretically, someone could get a qt commercial license and release their code under lgp |
| 04:10.37 | ferric | lgpl |
| 04:10.43 | ferric | ljp: LOL |
| 04:10.57 | rwhitby | ferric: no, you can't relicense something |
| 04:11.01 | ljp | ferric: no. you cant relicense if you dont own the copyright |
| 04:11.43 | ferric | oh, you can relicense the _final_ application |
| 04:11.44 | ferric | got it |
| 04:11.48 | ferric | fucking lawyers. |
| 04:11.50 | rwhitby | trolltech owns the copyright, so they can license as both GPL and commercial. |
| 04:12.11 | rwhitby | someone who gets the code or binary from trolltech, cannot relicense. |
| 04:12.20 | ljp | you can license your own code however you want |
| 04:12.58 | rwhitby | ljp: but if it links against GPL'd then they need to license as GPL. |
| 04:13.21 | rwhitby | I presume if they buy the commercial license, then they can license their app that links with it as they please. |
| 04:14.05 | ferric | rwhitby: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception |
| 04:14.40 | rwhitby | ferric: right - the original copyright holder needs to put that exception in their license. |
| 04:15.01 | rwhitby | unless you're the copyright holder, you can't make that exception. |
| 04:15.19 | *** join/#openmoko Stikman (n=aman@67.135.148.97) |
| 04:16.10 | rwhitby | ferric: note that the GPL is only possible due to copyright law, so lawyers are needed to uphold the GPL as much as they are needed to uphold any other license. That's life with licensing. |
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| 04:19.17 | ferric | lawyers are the scum of the earth, though, no? |
| 04:20.18 | rwhitby | meh - they're just doing the job that the people who employ them want them to do, and that the people who voted in the government and judges allow them to do ... |
| 04:20.32 | sagacis | Hey all the packages at http://qtopia.net/packages/feed/4.2.2/arm/packages.list are malware packages! |
| 04:20.44 | kerm|t | i want to be a lawyer. then my code will be backed by the power of a gun, even if its buggy! |
| 04:20.46 | rwhitby | executioners probably got a bad rap in ancient times too ... |
| 04:20.48 | ljp | sagacis: thats a testing feed for sxe |
| 04:21.23 | sagacis | ljp, where are the application hooks defined? Can I add vte or mrxvt or something to get a terminal? |
| 04:21.37 | ljp | qtopia doesnt use X11 |
| 04:22.19 | sagacis | If it wasn't so late, I would have know that before asking ;-) |
| 04:22.33 | ljp | yet |
| 04:22.54 | sagacis | I'd better give up the day to the night. g'night all. |
| 04:23.27 | ferric | cheers, sagacis |
| 04:23.52 | ferric | rwhitby: are you still maintaining mokomakefile? |
| 04:24.07 | rwhitby | yes |
| 04:24.10 | ferric | cool. |
| 04:24.48 | rwhitby | I make no claims about the stability of the OE metadata that mokomakefile builds, however. |
| 04:26.26 | atoponce | i know that the current release of the neo is developer preview, but will much change between now and final? |
| 04:26.45 | rwhitby | hardware will change from GTA01 to GTA02 |
| 04:27.08 | ferric | rwhitby: are you trying to inspire confidence in me? :P |
| 04:27.15 | ferric | atoponce: yes |
| 04:27.44 | atoponce | ok. you probably get this a lot, but when are the expected plans on final? |
| 04:27.54 | ferric | atoponce: read the topic :P |
| 04:28.00 | atoponce | heh |
| 04:28.27 | ferric | please buy a gta01 and help us make it better for all of us :) |
| 04:28.34 | ferric | if you can't hack, write docs. |
| 04:28.49 | atoponce | oh, i can hack. what's the underlying api? |
| 04:29.01 | ferric | openembedded |
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| 04:30.41 | atoponce | ooh. lots of goodies on the wiki |
| 04:30.49 | ferric | yes, its brilliant. |
| 04:30.54 | ferric | go forth and hack! |
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| 04:49.42 | atoponce | usb 1.1?! |
| 04:49.56 | atoponce | what is the reasoning behind not implementing 2.0? |
| 04:50.29 | notserpe | it's a dev unit dude |
| 04:51.04 | atoponce | true, but it's going into gta02 also |
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| 04:58.38 | abraxa_ | atoponce: The USB port comes from the Samsung SoC, so if it has no high-speed USB 2.0 then there's little the designers can do without adding an additional interface chip (which there is no space for) |
| 04:58.52 | atoponce | ahh |
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| 06:14.31 | abraxa_ | I love this display... |
| 06:20.58 | fgau | abraxa_: I'm also :) |
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| 06:28.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] |
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| 07:30.17 | vicovin_ | hello, just wanna know how's the battery life on the neo1973 |
| 07:31.16 | mjr | not great, since most of the power management so far consists of turning off the backlight |
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| 07:36.16 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:40.22 | vicovin_ | thanks for the info mjr :) |
| 07:41.24 | vicovin_ | became an openmoko convert almost overnight after realising the "freedom" of control one can have with openmoko |
| 07:41.54 | vicovin_ | due to some bad experience with proprietary phones |
| 07:43.22 | ruskie | :) |
| 07:44.19 | ccube | hi |
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| 07:44.42 | ccube | with qtopia my neo lives around 4 or 5 hours |
| 07:45.00 | ccube | but this is without making calls etc... |
| 07:45.11 | ccube | most of the time with screen off |
| 07:46.49 | vicovin_ | wow, still has some room for improvement in that area |
| 07:46.56 | vicovin_ | what's taking up all the power? |
| 07:47.10 | ruskie | probably all the bits that are turned on... |
| 07:47.24 | vicovin_ | is it because it is running on a full fledged 2.6 linux kernel? |
| 07:51.03 | mjr | I said what it's because of |
| 07:51.27 | mjr | it'll get better when the CPU isn't running full tilt all the time |
| 07:51.42 | mjr | (for instance) |
| 07:54.01 | ljp | pm hasnt bbeen implemented for qtopia yet |
| 07:55.50 | *** part/#openmoko alexbodn (n=alex@80.179.210.108.static.012.net.il) |
| 08:00.23 | ccube | well, the screen is switching off |
| 08:00.35 | ccube | also the phone suspeds |
| 08:00.46 | ccube | bit it wont wake up after that'! :-D |
| 08:01.08 | ljp | yep |
| 08:01.10 | vicovin_ | :) |
| 08:01.31 | ljp | you can try waking it up by hittinnng one of the buttons |
| 08:02.01 | vicovin_ | sorry, i'm still a noob here...i tot qtopia is linked to greenphone....and openmoko is different altogether right? |
| 08:03.22 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host170-210-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:03.37 | ljp | qtopia runs on several phones, notjust greenpphone |
| 08:04.05 | ljp | but yes, openmoko gui has a different interface |
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| 08:05.00 | vicovin_ | icic....so qtopia is, say, something like openbox or fluxbox in the traditional linux sense? |
| 08:05.24 | ljp | moooore like kde, ya |
| 08:05.40 | jeddy3 | yeah, what ljp said |
| 08:06.09 | jeddy3 | qtopia is qt toolkit as in kde, as opposed to openmokos gtk toolkit as in gnome |
| 08:06.37 | vicovin_ | ahhhh...that clears it :D thanks ljp, jeddy3 |
| 08:07.16 | jeddy3 | not equal to kde/gnome, just same widget toolkit as they use |
| 08:08.13 | vicovin_ | ok, are there other alternatives besides qtopia? i've seen matchbox, but graphic-wise, qtopia looks slicker |
| 08:08.28 | mjr | significantly also OpenMoko uses X, while qtopia does its own thing |
| 08:08.40 | mjr | OpenMoko uses matchbox also |
| 08:09.01 | *** part/#openmoko cheriff (n=davidm@221.199.209.30) |
| 08:09.05 | ljp | qtopia writes to the framebuffer and has its own windowing system |
| 08:09.22 | ljp | x on neo also writes to the framebuffer |
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| 08:11.47 | zefanja | hey all...I tried to get usbnet working with the Palm TX, but since 3 days I'm not able to get a connection. demsg says: usb0: link ist not ready |
| 08:12.11 | vicovin_ | thanks mjr, ljp! |
| 08:12.14 | zefanja | I tried to load moduls and restart the network...but nothing changes |
| 08:13.48 | aloril | (script) planet: Jon Phillips: My OpenMoko Dialed! http://rejon.org/2007/09/16/my-openmoko-dialed/ Jon Phillips: OpenMoko Wiki Face + Late OM Indoctrination http://rejon.org/2007/09/10/openmoko-wiki-face-late-om-indoctrination/ |
| 08:15.55 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 08:16.26 | Any_Key | vicovin_, also you can check Openedhand's Poky distro and GPE phone edition |
| 08:18.14 | vicovin_ | cool! thanks any_key! really want to know more stuff about openmoko |
| 08:18.29 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 08:20.14 | Any_Key | vicovin_, use the wiki, Luke : ) |
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| 08:20.59 | abraxa_ | "I spent a little bit of time today trying to get my OpenMoko working" - I wish people would stop confusing OpenMoko and the Neo |
| 08:21.02 | vicovin_ | got it! |
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| 08:24.55 | vicovin_ | openmoko is the project, neo is the product? |
| 08:25.41 | guaqua | openmoko is the project and the distro |
| 08:26.02 | guaqua | though the distro hopefully isn't the only reason the people are working on the project :) |
| 08:26.17 | guaqua | and neo is the phone itself, the hardware |
| 08:27.55 | vicovin_ | thanks for the clarification :) |
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| 08:31.21 | abraxa_ | XorA! There you are :) |
| 08:32.06 | abraxa_ | You did the tests with mplayer, video playback and the display's 320x240 mode? |
| 08:35.34 | XorA | abraxa_: no |
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| 08:40.31 | abraxa_ | XorA: Oh dang. |
| 08:41.02 | abraxa_ | XorA: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player is misquoting you then? |
| 08:41.07 | XorA | abraxa_: I suspect with mp3 sound it should manage 15-20fps |
| 08:41.20 | XorA | abraxa_: as armv4 doesnt have the super optimisations of armv5/6 |
| 08:42.00 | abraxa_ | XorA: Hmm, so I assume right then that you don't happen to know how to bring the Neo into 320x240 mode then? |
| 08:42.14 | XorA | abraxa_: you need to apply patches from stefan_schmidt |
| 08:42.45 | abraxa_ | XorA: Do you remember a link by chance? |
| 08:43.18 | XorA | abraxa_: no, but this channel is logged |
| 08:43.21 | XorA | ~logs |
| 08:43.22 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 08:44.37 | abraxa_ | ugh... |
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| 10:08.59 | Unclemantis | stupid wiki didn't tell me what server the chat channel was on |
| 10:09.03 | Unclemantis | need to add that to the wiki |
| 10:09.34 | Unclemantis | do i need the actual hardware to start development or is there an emulator? |
| 10:09.35 | aloril | Unclemantis: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:09.51 | vicovin_ | any response to this dude: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html |
| 10:10.25 | SpeedEvil | Unclemantis: you can do devlopment on x86 |
| 10:10.49 | Unclemantis | is their an SDK for it and is linux required |
| 10:11.00 | Unclemantis | is there a container sandbox for windows? |
| 10:11.00 | SpeedEvil | sort-of, and yes |
| 10:11.07 | SpeedEvil | well - no |
| 10:11.14 | SpeedEvil | you can I think run qemu under windows |
| 10:11.26 | Unclemantis | which flavor of linux is required or does it matter? |
| 10:11.47 | SpeedEvil | you will need some sort of modern linux with assorted recent libraries to do dev on. |
| 10:11.52 | SpeedEvil | or install lots of stuff. |
| 10:12.03 | SpeedEvil | exact form doesn't matter. |
| 10:12.07 | Unclemantis | you say there is sort of an SDK |
| 10:12.20 | SpeedEvil | sort-of, in that there is source |
| 10:12.24 | SpeedEvil | and minimal docs. |
| 10:12.41 | Unclemantis | is there like an emulation application? I don't have the dough for a phone right now |
| 10:12.48 | SpeedEvil | qemu works. |
| 10:12.56 | SpeedEvil | Also, you can build OM for x86 |
| 10:13.25 | Unclemantis | ic |
| 10:13.31 | Unclemantis | so get qemu |
| 10:13.31 | SpeedEvil | if you don't care about building apps that run on the phone. |
| 10:13.44 | SpeedEvil | Just on your PC, that can easily then be compiled. |
| 10:13.44 | Unclemantis | ok i am confused |
| 10:13.51 | SpeedEvil | several options: |
| 10:13.56 | Unclemantis | i want to build apps for the phone |
| 10:13.57 | SpeedEvil | A) real hardware |
| 10:14.02 | Unclemantis | i do not have funds to buy a phone |
| 10:14.07 | SpeedEvil | B) Qemu - emulating the real hardware |
| 10:14.19 | Unclemantis | ok |
| 10:14.22 | SpeedEvil | C) Openmoko - running on your own processor natively. |
| 10:14.27 | Unclemantis | where do i get the emulation software |
| 10:14.30 | SpeedEvil | A and B can run the same programs |
| 10:14.39 | SpeedEvil | C can't - but the source code is identical |
| 10:15.11 | SpeedEvil | However with C, it's much faster to compile and run stuff. |
| 10:15.43 | SpeedEvil | And you can simply then build for a different target architecture to go to run on the phone |
| 10:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko erik (n=erik@gw.sbg.se) |
| 10:16.23 | Unclemantis | i am getting qemu 0.9.0 for windows |
| 10:16.35 | zash` | test in C first, then B |
| 10:16.36 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu |
| 10:16.45 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:17.29 | Unclemantis | ok |
| 10:17.36 | Unclemantis | sounds like i am on the right track |
| 10:17.49 | Unclemantis | it seems this is where the future is going |
| 10:18.06 | Unclemantis | can i expect someone to hire me in the near future with phone programming skills? |
| 10:18.24 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 10:18.33 | SpeedEvil | You can expect to be abducted by aliens too. |
| 10:18.41 | Unclemantis | that is great news! |
| 10:18.45 | Unclemantis | i love anal |
| 10:19.51 | SpeedEvil | IMO - mass adoption of OM is _at_least_ a year off. |
| 10:19.52 | Unclemantis | oh cool |
| 10:19.55 | Unclemantis | i have linux lol |
| 10:19.56 | SpeedEvil | If all goes exactly right. |
| 10:20.07 | Unclemantis | i have shell |
| 10:20.24 | Unclemantis | sh-2.05b# |
| 10:20.30 | Unclemantis | is this good enough for what i need? |
| 10:20.37 | SpeedEvil | Well - ... |
| 10:20.54 | SpeedEvil | If you're asking that sort of question, you've got more learning to do. |
| 10:21.00 | SpeedEvil | where do you have this shell? |
| 10:21.08 | Unclemantis | it is early, leave me alone |
| 10:21.14 | SpeedEvil | and what does 'uname -a' say? |
| 10:21.17 | Unclemantis | in the window that popped up |
| 10:21.31 | Unclemantis | command not found |
| 10:22.05 | SpeedEvil | Ok - that's not very linuxy. |
| 10:22.17 | Unclemantis | so what the hell do i have |
| 10:22.32 | SpeedEvil | How did you get this linux? |
| 10:22.36 | SpeedEvil | and where did you install it? |
| 10:22.39 | Unclemantis | i have qemu for windows and i ran the stupid thing and i get a shell i type in what you asked and got a command not found |
| 10:22.53 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:23.45 | SpeedEvil | Ok - you need to have a non-emulated linux system up and running. |
| 10:24.06 | SpeedEvil | Running a build under qemu will take 10-100* longer than the 10-20 hours it normally does. |
| 10:24.10 | Unclemantis | you said qemu will work |
| 10:24.18 | SpeedEvil | qemu works as a phone emulator |
| 10:24.28 | Unclemantis | ok |
| 10:24.39 | SpeedEvil | it does not work to run the software to compile the phone software, as it's _so_ much slower |
| 10:24.42 | Unclemantis | so i use qemu as the phone emulator but i need to use pure linux for development? |
| 10:25.02 | SpeedEvil | PRetty much. |
| 10:25.06 | Unclemantis | ok |
| 10:25.19 | SpeedEvil | I _think_ someones built it on OS/X |
| 10:25.26 | SpeedEvil | but I don't think so under windows |
| 10:25.33 | Unclemantis | hmm |
| 10:25.41 | Unclemantis | i see screenshots of the phone in action |
| 10:25.44 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu - reading that, and many of the wiki links you don't understand may be of use. |
| 10:25.53 | Unclemantis | where can i get that to run on qemu to test and play with for now |
| 10:25.53 | SpeedEvil | The screenshots are often outdated |
| 10:26.41 | SpeedEvil | There is a link to 'pre-buiilt binaries' on the above page |
| 10:27.44 | Unclemantis | cool |
| 10:27.48 | Unclemantis | gf making fun of me |
| 10:28.09 | Jiten | Unclemantis: you could run linux in vmware but even that'd give you a little less performance than running it natively. |
| 10:28.46 | viq | Jiten: depends what you mean by "little" |
| 10:28.50 | cjb_ie | Unclemantis: you obviously haven't been taking advantage of your spam ;-) |
| 10:29.10 | Unclemantis | wtf |
| 10:29.10 | Jiten | viq: I have no idea since I haven't run any benchmarks :) |
| 10:29.22 | viq | on my 1GHz P3 in VMWare systems are performing as if they were maybe 300MHz |
| 10:29.56 | Jiten | viq: that could be because you haven't installed the drivers for the emulated graphics card and such |
| 10:30.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Nand_erase]] [[Neo1973_Battery]] |
| 10:30.47 | viq | Jiten: the guest wasn't even running X |
| 10:31.29 | Jiten | ok, then you're puzzling me, the last time I tried, I couldn't really tell if it ran slower. |
| 10:32.30 | viq | Jiten: what CPU were you running it on? Maybe you got the advantage of the newer CPUs' virtualization support. But when I was compiling something it was taking I think 50% more time than on my 600MHz Duron. |
| 10:33.07 | Jiten | Athlon XP 1800+ was the last processor I tried vmware with. I don't think it has support for the virtualization stuff. |
| 10:33.20 | viq | No, I don't think it does. |
| 10:33.27 | viq | What were you doing with it? |
| 10:34.09 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet_ (n=larsg@ti500710a080-4999.bb.online.no) |
| 10:34.09 | Jiten | windows version of vmware, running linux. |
| 10:34.36 | Jiten | anyway, that's at least 2 years ago. |
| 10:35.11 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 10:36.11 | Jiten | can't remember exactly what I used it for. Nothing I'd get any performance numbers out of at least. |
| 10:36.18 | viq | Well, depends what you were doing with it. "ooh, I have a GUI *click*" indeed shouldn't be much slower, but were you to start compiling something, I think you would notice a difference. |
| 10:37.57 | Mek | I once did quite a lot of hacking in linux running in vmware on OSX, and with the dual-core support it wasn't noticably slower most of the time... |
| 10:40.18 | viq | "once"? It must have been within last 6 months or even less |
| 10:40.55 | Mek | yeah.. I guess it was somewhere around may/june.. :P |
| 10:41.33 | viq | Yeah, that's when we started hearing about vmware for mac |
| 10:41.53 | viq | and those boxes have harware virtualization "acceleration" - mine doesn't :P |
| 10:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko melunko (n=hmelo@200.184.118.132) |
| 10:47.23 | Jiten | I think, I read somewhere that vmware performs better than kvm, but ... |
| 10:47.40 | Jiten | no numbers were said and I haven't tested either myself |
| 10:48.50 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 10:49.55 | viq | kvm ustilizes hardware virtualization support, which I don't have available, so didn't even consider testing. |
| 10:51.03 | Unclemantis | i see Bridge Firewalling registered and it just sits there |
| 10:51.28 | Unclemantis | so when does the phone interface pop up |
| 10:51.58 | XorA | the whole VM thing, only IO slows a VM, code running in user space is run at same speed. The problem with compiling is you load and save a lot of stuff quickly, forcing VM to keep switching states killing performance |
| 10:52.56 | Unclemantis | i give up.... for now, i gotta go LOL |
| 10:52.59 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass_ (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 10:53.45 | jpcass_ | morning: anyone know how to flash a new kernel without using dfu-util? can it be done from inside a running neo? |
| 10:54.18 | jpcass_ | (i ask because my neo is at home and I want to ssh in to it and update the kernel to try a patch) |
| 10:54.47 | XorA | jpcass_: technically you can just write kernel to mtd device |
| 10:54.55 | XorA | jpcass_: but Ive never heard anyone trying |
| 10:55.13 | jpcass_ | XorA: i tried with dd but it didnt work... |
| 10:55.26 | SpeedEvil | how diddn't work? |
| 10:55.41 | jpcass_ | looked like it was working but no change to kernel |
| 10:56.05 | jpcass_ | on my router there';s a program called mtd for updating the flash... |
| 10:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko [EST]Myoldryn (n=Jaan@dhcp-84-52-63-249.cable.infonet.ee) |
| 10:59.20 | XorA | reminds me, should upgrade WRT54 |
| 11:04.54 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484C4A7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:05.03 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484C4A7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:06.07 | ScaredyCat | charliedog121 |
| 11:06.14 | ScaredyCat | errikcs6994 |
| 11:06.31 | ScaredyCat | gah! |
| 11:06.38 | ScaredyCat | wrong chan sorry |
| 11:11.21 | taneli | no worries, we'll hack into your system in no time anyways |
| 11:17.14 | ccube | :-D |
| 11:22.09 | *** join/#openmoko mib_force (i=mib_forc@2001:1638:17a5:0:0:0:0:20) |
| 11:24.26 | CM | Heh, meant MidpSSH of course. :) |
| 11:27.10 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@dhcp-206-63-vpn.unizh.ch) |
| 11:30.58 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 11:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 11:43.10 | sandos | CM: heh, MidpSSH on my Motorola E398 is glacial |
| 11:43.16 | sandos | takes ~5 minute to log in |
| 11:54.06 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db355fe.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 11:55.50 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky_ (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 11:56.28 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B8DFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:04.23 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 12:04.31 | torpor | pqwd |
| 12:04.32 | torpor | pwd |
| 12:06.14 | SpeedEvil | pwnd |
| 12:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko Unclemantis (n=Michael@ip68-9-222-145.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 12:07.43 | cb22 | sandos, the e398 ftw! :) |
| 12:07.48 | cb22 | that was my best phone |
| 12:08.07 | cb22 | and it was so hacked |
| 12:08.14 | cb22 | like now there is even a binary loader for it |
| 12:09.26 | Unclemantis | I have the OpenMoko Emulator running... it booted now i have a penguin on the upper left, a screen full of boot text and then on the bottom Bridge firewalling registered and then that is it, nothing else is happening :( |
| 12:09.58 | *** join/#openmoko neocoretech (n=neocoret@gw.transporeon-hq.com) |
| 12:10.27 | Unclemantis | on the command window i see |
| 12:10.27 | Unclemantis | jbt6k74_command: Display on. |
| 12:10.27 | Unclemantis | s3c_adc_write: Bad register 0x8 |
| 12:10.45 | Unclemantis | wait a minute, something is happening |
| 12:10.51 | Unclemantis | freeing init memory |
| 12:11.08 | Unclemantis | how long does this normaly take and is the actual phone going to take this freaking long to boot? LOL |
| 12:12.14 | Unclemantis | it is using 15 percent of the CPU and 31,000k of memory |
| 12:12.24 | Unclemantis | it is still saying freeing init memory |
| 12:13.32 | Unclemantis | is this just the core, no apps, nothing? |
| 12:13.52 | Unclemantis | its still going, doing something now |
| 12:14.00 | Unclemantis | i hope this is a one time thing LOL |
| 12:14.27 | Unclemantis | it is up to Synthiszing the initial hotplug events |
| 12:15.05 | zash` | Unclemantis: what are you running it on? |
| 12:15.28 | Unclemantis | xp |
| 12:16.15 | zash` | how fast cpu and such? |
| 12:16.52 | Unclemantis | 1.5 ghz |
| 12:16.59 | Unclemantis | 1.5 megs ram |
| 12:17.04 | Unclemantis | gigs!!!! |
| 12:17.28 | XorA | 1.5M would have been amusing |
| 12:17.35 | XorA | swap storm or what |
| 12:17.49 | Unclemantis | i have no page fiole |
| 12:17.57 | Unclemantis | it is all in physical |
| 12:18.04 | Unclemantis | jesus this is running slow LOL |
| 12:18.24 | cjb_ie | are you actually laughing out loud every time you type LOL ? |
| 12:18.37 | rwhitby | cjb_ie: I was wondering the same thing :-) |
| 12:18.49 | Unclemantis | ok just calibrated the touch screen with the mouse pointer |
| 12:19.10 | XorA | WARNING NEO CAUSES HYSTERIA AND INSANITY |
| 12:20.02 | cjb_ie | XorA: AND IMPATIENCE! LOL |
| 12:20.12 | zash` | how long does it take for the neo to do the booting? |
| 12:20.25 | SpeedEvil | 3-4 mins? |
| 12:20.38 | Unclemantis | from start to the graphical screen? |
| 12:20.44 | SpeedEvil | This is not the final state or anywhere close to it |
| 12:20.45 | Unclemantis | i didn't time it but it felt like for ages |
| 12:21.01 | SpeedEvil | qemu is not representative of the real device times |
| 12:21.21 | SpeedEvil | and the booting will be both sped up, and almost never done. |
| 12:21.26 | SpeedEvil | As it'll be resuming from RAM |
| 12:21.27 | zash` | takes about 5 min from `make qemu` til its finished |
| 12:21.35 | Unclemantis | ok |
| 12:21.35 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-110-235.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:21.41 | Unclemantis | well i have the interface now |
| 12:21.42 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:21.44 | Unclemantis | can i make a call? LOL |
| 12:21.58 | SpeedEvil | I think so if you've got a GSM modem attached |
| 12:22.00 | zash` | on my work-ws |
| 12:22.04 | Unclemantis | no kidding |
| 12:22.44 | cjb_ie | my sonyericsson takes about a minute to boot, it's ridiculously slow |
| 12:23.38 | SpeedEvil | In principle - booting should only be needed on battery change. |
| 12:23.49 | zash` | my nokia 3310 takes about 5 sec to boot ;) |
| 12:23.53 | SpeedEvil | Or if you leave it for over a month or so. |
| 12:24.03 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-110-235.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:24.04 | Unclemantis | oh |
| 12:24.11 | SpeedEvil | Mine takes a lot longer before it will make calls though |
| 12:24.16 | Unclemantis | so when i close this and then start it up again it will take just as long? |
| 12:24.28 | Unclemantis | so this is the iPhone killer? |
| 12:24.30 | SpeedEvil | Yes |
| 12:24.37 | zash` | network-connect takes som secs too |
| 12:24.38 | SpeedEvil | In principle - booting should only be needed on battery change. |
| 12:24.52 | SpeedEvil | resume from RAM will take under a second |
| 12:24.53 | cb22 | Unclemantis, well i'm buying one instead of a iPhone |
| 12:24.58 | Unclemantis | hmm ok |
| 12:25.02 | cb22 | but |
| 12:25.08 | cb22 | i like getting my hands dirty :) |
| 12:25.11 | Unclemantis | but the iphone looks prettier and more fun |
| 12:25.13 | SpeedEvil | and it can sit in suspend-RAM for a few weeks. |
| 12:25.51 | SpeedEvil | Unclemantis: and the next version may be completely locked down. |
| 12:26.33 | Unclemantis | ok so i might as well go for this moko then |
| 12:27.09 | Unclemantis | i have had this open for 11 minutes now |
| 12:27.12 | Unclemantis | not liking it yet |
| 12:28.12 | Unclemantis | the web browser doesn't work |
| 12:28.16 | Unclemantis | google is not showing up |
| 12:28.30 | Unclemantis | man this is not something i can just run right out of the box is it |
| 12:28.43 | Unclemantis | and i really need to have this running on a linux box |
| 12:29.11 | SpeedEvil | No, unfortunately, even the basics are not working very well at the moment. |
| 12:29.28 | Unclemantis | and this is going to be for sale next month? |
| 12:29.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Gsmd/document]] |
| 12:29.33 | rwhitby | no |
| 12:29.49 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I suspect that the dialer and accepting calls, ringtones, ... should be working by the time hardware is available for shipment possibly in december |
| 12:29.51 | Unclemantis | i thought i read that in a magazine and on the site |
| 12:29.54 | SpeedEvil | the rest will be spotty |
| 12:30.02 | rwhitby | Unclemantis: you did. it's impossible. |
| 12:30.05 | SpeedEvil | It's recently been announced that there will be a slip |
| 12:30.23 | SpeedEvil | It's not quite impossible - just vanishingly unlikely. |
| 12:30.36 | cjb_ie | "Please note that the OpenMoko products are not meant for the end user and explicitly marked as Developer preview at this time. Read this wiki article to find more technical details of what you can and cannot expect of these devices." |
| 12:30.37 | rwhitby | nah, I say impossible. prove me wrong ;-) |
| 12:30.38 | SpeedEvil | (if they decide to go insane and go volume with perhaps buggy hardware with no testing at all) |
| 12:30.47 | cjb_ie | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview |
| 12:31.11 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: even if they made that decision today, I bet the first person couldn't get one in October. |
| 12:31.13 | cjb_ie | Unclemantis: see the two lines i pasted above. |
| 12:31.45 | Unclemantis | ok |
| 12:31.48 | rwhitby | (and there's no way they would make a really bad decision like that) |
| 12:32.10 | Unclemantis | so should i start learning to develop for this? is this really going to take off like a shot? |
| 12:32.12 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: I dunno - we've never really been told how long the production process takes. |
| 12:32.20 | SpeedEvil | Unclemantis: Who knows? |
| 12:32.37 | SpeedEvil | Unclemantis: It will not be suitable for end-users for some months yet. |
| 12:32.45 | SpeedEvil | Then, it could take off. |
| 12:32.50 | SpeedEvil | If it will depends on the market. |
| 12:32.56 | Unclemantis | so i guess this is a gamble like everything else |
| 12:33.04 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: but we know from GTA01 experience what to expect. anything better than that should just be treated as an unexpected surprise. |
| 12:33.10 | Unclemantis | and people will be buying applications or will they all be free? |
| 12:33.15 | rwhitby | either |
| 12:33.18 | SpeedEvil | I susepct the most likely outcome is several tens of thousands/year for at least 2 years |
| 12:33.19 | rwhitby | both |
| 12:33.34 | SpeedEvil | Then maybe expanding |
| 12:33.46 | SpeedEvil | Applications can either be free - the basic core applications. |
| 12:33.50 | Unclemantis | so i guess it is worth a shot |
| 12:33.52 | SpeedEvil | Or pay-for - for example TomTom |
| 12:33.58 | cjb_ie | Unclemantis: on linux, do people buy applications or are they all free? |
| 12:34.07 | Unclemantis | on linux they are both |
| 12:34.14 | SpeedEvil | Or possibly pay-for rather |
| 12:34.16 | cb22 | same thing |
| 12:34.38 | SpeedEvil | For example, at the moment tomtom is the only plausible way to get maps other than the UK and US legally |
| 12:34.46 | SpeedEvil | For example, at the moment tomtom is the only plausible way to get maps other than the Netherlands and US legally |
| 12:34.59 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: i was wondering for a moment :) |
| 12:35.11 | cb22 | osm? |
| 12:35.13 | cjb_ie | though the UK is doing well in openstreetmap. |
| 12:35.14 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 12:35.23 | Unclemantis | ok |
| 12:35.25 | SpeedEvil | cjb_ie: some small parts of the UK |
| 12:35.27 | cjb_ie | but doesn't have complete coverage yet |
| 12:35.30 | cb22 | and besides, not everyone cares about the 'legally' bit :p |
| 12:35.31 | SpeedEvil | It is not primetime. |
| 12:35.40 | SpeedEvil | Or anywhere close. |
| 12:35.51 | SpeedEvil | The trunk network is mostly complete, and some cities. |
| 12:35.54 | cb22 | it would be easy to plot your gps position onto a google map though |
| 12:35.55 | Unclemantis | so i take it this phone will be similar to a laptop running linux? |
| 12:35.55 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: well, zoomed out a lot, there's an awful lot that has some coverage. |
| 12:36.03 | SpeedEvil | Other stuff is _horribly_ patchy. |
| 12:36.04 | cb22 | and that would be perfectly legal |
| 12:36.21 | SpeedEvil | Unclemantis: openmoko is simply a linux distribution. |
| 12:36.25 | Unclemantis | ok |
| 12:36.31 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 12:36.34 | SpeedEvil | Unclemantis: which is targetted at phones. |
| 12:36.41 | Unclemantis | so basicly it will be able to do anything that linux does on a laptop or desktop right? |
| 12:36.51 | Unclemantis | so the sky is the limit |
| 12:36.52 | cjb_ie | within limitations, sure |
| 12:36.54 | SpeedEvil | Unclemantis: basiclly - with hardware limits |
| 12:36.57 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 12:37.03 | *** join/#openmoko vicovin (n=chatzill@218.208.26.66) |
| 12:37.03 | Unclemantis | i wonder if if SecondLife will be able to run on it LOL |
| 12:37.06 | viq | "if you're patient enough" ;) |
| 12:37.14 | rwhitby | it'll be able to do anything a pentium 1 400MHz can do. |
| 12:37.21 | Unclemantis | ugh |
| 12:37.30 | SpeedEvil | cjb_ie: it's very limited at the moment in places - for example, before I came along, my local town of 40K was entirely missing |
| 12:37.33 | viq | rwhitby: not quite, it doesn't have FPU, I believe |
| 12:37.35 | Unclemantis | so basicly the pentinum 2 i have in the garage will be fine for development? |
| 12:37.35 | SpeedEvil | 233Mhz |
| 12:37.47 | SpeedEvil | And no MMX or FPU |
| 12:37.53 | rwhitby | viq: true. ok, less than a P1 400MHz :-) |
| 12:38.00 | SpeedEvil | so think maybe pentium-1 150 equiv. |
| 12:38.02 | cjb_ie | Unclemantis: depends what you mean by development. |
| 12:38.05 | SpeedEvil | (though there was no such thing) |
| 12:38.10 | cb22 | why dont arms have a fpu? |
| 12:38.14 | SpeedEvil | (with graphich hardware accel) |
| 12:38.20 | Unclemantis | building apps and running the emulator in close to real time |
| 12:38.26 | Maledictus | no one really needs an fpu |
| 12:38.35 | Maledictus | except scientists |
| 12:38.43 | SpeedEvil | Unclemantis: building apps and the emulator needs as fast a CPU as you can. |
| 12:39.09 | SpeedEvil | It takes a dozen hours or so on the average machine to build the entire tree. |
| 12:39.18 | DukeOfURL | rwhitby: can I force the Makefile to rebuild the kernel? |
| 12:39.19 | SpeedEvil | cjb_ie: and my local city of 140K had one road. |
| 12:39.43 | rwhitby | DukeOfURL: yep "make rebuild-package-<kernel-package-name>" |
| 12:39.43 | *** join/#openmoko miyata3012 (n=Matthew_@d-199-229-18.bootp.Virginia.EDU) |
| 12:39.56 | DukeOfURL | rwhitby: thx |
| 12:40.13 | Unclemantis | well back to the grind |
| 12:40.16 | Unclemantis | been a pleasure folks |
| 12:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 12:41.00 | SpeedEvil | WAve. |
| 12:41.58 | vicovin | hello all, can i safely say that linux on openmoko is exactly the same as if it was on a PC? |
| 12:41.58 | Maledictus | guys I finally managed to boot a few lines into the freebsd kernel :D |
| 12:42.24 | cb22 | Maledictus, ? |
| 12:42.27 | cb22 | freebsd on the neo? |
| 12:42.35 | cb22 | ah yes, /me remembers from the wiki |
| 12:42.36 | cb22 | nice |
| 12:42.40 | Maledictus | yep, in qemu-neo1973 to be exact |
| 12:42.42 | cb22 | really nice |
| 12:42.46 | cb22 | really really nice |
| 12:43.00 | Maledictus | not really far though, having problems with mmu :) |
| 12:43.12 | *** join/#openmoko [EST]Myoldryn (n=Jaan@dhcp-84-52-63-249.cable.infonet.ee) |
| 12:43.32 | SpeedEvil | vicovin: not quite - but apart from the hardware differences and different drivers, yes |
| 12:43.54 | SpeedEvil | vicovin: you can in principle install debian, or ubuntu onto the phone (if you recompiled it all for arm) |
| 12:44.17 | SpeedEvil | Openmoko is simply another distribution, optimised for phones. |
| 12:44.29 | SpeedEvil | (at the moment, other devices may follow) |
| 12:44.43 | cb22 | Maledictus, keep up the good work :) |
| 12:44.56 | Maledictus | I will, thanks :) |
| 12:45.14 | SpeedEvil | Maledictus: Why, when you can run linux! |
| 12:45.22 | Maledictus | It's all new for me, embedded, arm assembler... |
| 12:45.23 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 12:45.26 | vicovin | SpeedEvil: thanks for the info! does it mean its actually linux ARM ports, and not like those from MontaVista? |
| 12:45.41 | Maledictus | SpeedEvil: because I can ;P |
| 12:45.55 | cb22 | and because freebsd rocks |
| 12:45.59 | viq | Maledictus: or, techinally at the moment, "because I can't" ;) |
| 12:45.59 | SpeedEvil | vicovin: it's basically a normal linux distribution, using the normal (though cross-compiled) source |
| 12:46.13 | SpeedEvil | Much of the source is in fact desktop source |
| 12:46.14 | Maledictus | viq: yep :) |
| 12:46.21 | SpeedEvil | rather than custom, but... |
| 12:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 12:50.25 | vicovin | cool :) |
| 12:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 12:52.55 | vicovin | i was looking for open source phones and bumped into mobilinux from monta vista; thought it was THE open source phone until I noticed that the Linux kernel is customised, and CLOSED source :( |
| 12:53.28 | cjb_ie | sounds like a GPL violation? |
| 12:53.40 | vicovin | and later, bumped into OpenMoko; and it revived my spirit for true open source in mobiles :) |
| 12:54.11 | vicovin | cjb_je: it may be |
| 12:54.16 | *** join/#openmoko frma71 (n=frma@c-dbef72d5.025-93-73746f5.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 12:54.18 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 12:54.47 | vicovin | but i noticed they trimmed down the stock kernel towards more "real-time" os capabilities |
| 12:55.27 | vicovin | for "faster" performance |
| 12:55.31 | frma71 | Anyone heard anything about gllin yet ? |
| 12:56.22 | vicovin | gllin? |
| 12:56.50 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=DaveAnde@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 12:57.15 | rwhitby | vicovin: what makes you think mobilinux is closed source? |
| 12:57.16 | vicovin | from the wiki "userpsace driver for a hammerhead chip" |
| 12:57.16 | frma71 | viconvin: The gps driver that will be released anyday now !!! |
| 12:57.37 | frma71 | ... for a couple of months :I |
| 12:58.13 | vicovin | rwhitby: i can't download the customised kernel source from anywhere |
| 12:58.23 | XorA | frma71: any day can occur sometime from now to T+4 billion years |
| 12:58.28 | rwhitby | vicovin: have you purchased a product from them? |
| 12:58.36 | vicovin | nopes |
| 12:58.58 | rwhitby | then you have no right to expect the source. GPL says you only get to ask for source if you get the binary. |
| 12:59.01 | vicovin | only a fren who has a motorola linux handset which i presume is loaded from mobilinux |
| 12:59.09 | rwhitby | it's not |
| 12:59.39 | vicovin | ah |
| 12:59.39 | rwhitby | if you buy their product, and they don't give you the kernel source *then*, then it's a GPL violation. |
| 12:59.58 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:00.02 | vicovin | ic, thanks for the clarification! |
| 13:00.08 | cjb_ie | if you buy a phone with it on...L |
| 13:00.14 | cjb_ie | if you buy a phone with it on...? |
| 13:00.17 | rwhitby | until you get the binary and see whether it has a written GPL offer with it, you have no way of knowing. |
| 13:00.18 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[Away (n=Brescia@adsl-133-181.38-151.net24.it) |
| 13:00.35 | rwhitby | monta vista knows all about the GPL. I would not expect them to be violating it. |
| 13:00.36 | vicovin | which means if i do purchase a monta vista loaded phone, i have the right to request for the phone's full source code |
| 13:00.49 | vicovin | from monta vista |
| 13:00.58 | rwhitby | no, you have the right to request the parts of the phone which are built from GPL'd source. |
| 13:01.00 | vicovin | regardless of the phone manufacturer i got it from |
| 13:01.08 | cjb_ie | now, what happens if you _lease_ a phone from a cellco? |
| 13:01.23 | rwhitby | read up on the "mere aggregation" clause of the GPL. |
| 13:01.50 | rwhitby | for the Linux kernel, what you said is true. |
| 13:01.51 | vicovin | ic, means i will only have access to parts of the source code which is GPL'ed |
| 13:01.57 | rwhitby | correct. |
| 13:03.05 | vicovin | :D |
| 13:03.47 | vicovin | so if they customised the linux kernel, only the bits which are GPLed will be publicly available |
| 13:04.33 | rwhitby | that is everything as far as the kernel is concerned. you can't "merely aggregate" bits of the kernel. |
| 13:04.43 | rwhitby | but userspace apps can be closed source |
| 13:05.06 | rwhitby | (as long as they aren't derived from, or link against, GPL'd code. |
| 13:05.23 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet_ (n=larsg@ti500710a080-4999.bb.online.no) |
| 13:05.27 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.254.97) |
| 13:06.39 | vicovin | thanks for the clarification! this means for openmoko, all of its code is GPL'd and we have access to the source in all its glory :) |
| 13:07.07 | *** join/#openmoko khaije (n=khaije1@unaffiliated/khaije1) |
| 13:07.16 | rwhitby | no, a lot of openmoko code is intentionally LGPL'd so that people can do closed source stuff. |
| 13:07.53 | _buz | still means you get to see OM code |
| 13:08.15 | khaije | i'm surprised to se the message about gta02 in the chan topic |
| 13:08.24 | rwhitby | ironically, all of Qtopia is GPL'd, but not all of OpenMoko is (some is LGPL'd) :-) |
| 13:08.43 | rwhitby | (Qtopia is dual licensed, you have to buy it for commercial use) |
| 13:08.56 | rwhitby | khaije: the topic is unlocked - anyone can write anything there |
| 13:09.28 | *** topic/#openmoko by _buz -> The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com || Do not ask about GTA02 (December as of last update). |
| 13:09.43 | vicovin | rwhitby: these are great information....its good to be clear on the GPL stuff |
| 13:09.48 | prpplague | rwhitby: indeed, there are so many true intentional violations of the GPL, that every time someone cries wolf, people start to ignore it when their is a real problem |
| 13:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko [Avatar] (n=marcello@politeca244.dpa.polimi.it) |
| 13:10.09 | rwhitby | Do we know if that Dec date is P0 or P1 (it can't be P2 IMO) |
| 13:10.17 | rwhitby | prpplague: amen |
| 13:10.29 | [Avatar] | hi to everyone ;) |
| 13:10.31 | _buz | in my interpretation of what mickey said that would be P1 |
| 13:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.83.100.175) |
| 13:11.05 | rwhitby | that makes sense. I've always said Nov for P0 and Jan for P1, so we'll see if they beat my prediction :-) |
| 13:11.14 | *** part/#openmoko miyata3012 (n=Matthew_@d-199-229-18.bootp.Virginia.EDU) |
| 13:11.16 | _buz | i hope for 15th dec p1 |
| 13:11.20 | _buz | so to get one for xmas ;) |
| 13:11.46 | prpplague | rwhitby: you guys using any additional sdram other than whats on the 2442? |
| 13:12.43 | vicovin | frma71: nice! gllin = updated gps driver? |
| 13:12.51 | khaije | wasn't the p2 release scheduled for the start of this year at one point? |
| 13:13.12 | khaije | it's hard for me to keep track of :-/ |
| 13:13.31 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 13:13.33 | rwhitby | khaije: yes it was. that's hardware development for you. |
| 13:13.46 | rwhitby | well, Q1 this year I think. |
| 13:14.29 | rwhitby | prpplague: "you guys" == ? (I don't work for OpenMoko) |
| 13:15.10 | prpplague | rwhitby: i ment generically, if you knew if the 2442 based neo was using any additional sdram |
| 13:15.18 | XorA | 128M |
| 13:15.21 | khaije | rwhitby: ah the anticipation! |
| 13:15.21 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#RAM |
| 13:15.23 | khaije | :-) |
| 13:15.47 | prpplague | rwhitby: yea, that seems to indicate that its just the sdram thats available on the 2442, but wasn't sure |
| 13:16.10 | rwhitby | prpplague: that says two samsung ram chips |
| 13:16.26 | prpplague | rwhitby: yea that page is for the first neo which uses the 2410 |
| 13:16.28 | rwhitby | or are you talking GTA01? |
| 13:16.38 | rwhitby | oh, you're asking about GTA02. |
| 13:16.41 | prpplague | rwhitby: naw, rev 2 that uses the 2442 |
| 13:16.49 | XorA | 128M |
| 13:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:17.07 | rwhitby | I would expect it to be the same. |
| 13:17.21 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-223-181.38-151.net24.it) |
| 13:17.30 | prpplague | XorA: yes i see the amount the question is if its all on the 2442 or partly on seperate chips |
| 13:17.38 | prpplague | rwhitby: the 2442 has intergrated sdram |
| 13:17.47 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@c-69-143-234-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:17.48 | rwhitby | 128MB of it? |
| 13:17.56 | rwhitby | that'd be a costly processor. |
| 13:17.58 | prpplague | rwhitby: that is one configuration of the 2442 |
| 13:18.04 | prpplague | rwhitby: actually not that bad |
| 13:18.05 | XorA | prpplague: I thought 64M was max size of 2442 stack |
| 13:18.30 | prpplague | XorA: i'll doubt check but i was told we could get a 128mb version |
| 13:18.34 | rwhitby | prpplague: got a link to a 2442 datasheet? |
| 13:18.35 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet_ (n=larsg@ti500710a080-4999.bb.online.no) |
| 13:18.44 | XorA | rwhitby: google s3c2442 :-) |
| 13:19.26 | prpplague | rwhitby: yea one sec |
| 13:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet_ (n=larsg@ti500710a080-4999.bb.online.no) |
| 13:19.55 | rwhitby | XorA: I am, that's why I'm asking prpplague, cause Google is not finding anything in the first couple of hits .. |
| 13:20.00 | zash` | Segmentation fault of doom! |
| 13:20.18 | prpplague | rwhitby: smasung recently changed all their web site docs and such |
| 13:20.21 | prpplague | rwhitby: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=229&partnum=SC32442 |
| 13:20.31 | rwhitby | prpplague: thx |
| 13:20.32 | prpplague | rwhitby: i don't believe the full datasheet is posted any longer |
| 13:20.35 | XorA | rwhitby: WTF it used to be second link on google |
| 13:20.44 | XorA | rwhitby: someones been messing up pagerank again |
| 13:20.50 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (i=5512ea02@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-12796a58756ebf8b) |
| 13:20.59 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-169-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:21.26 | rwhitby | prpplague: yeah, I was hoping you'd have a link to the full datasheet, cause I couldn't find it on google or the samsung site. |
| 13:21.41 | *** join/#openmoko mythtv (n=mythtv@124-169-249-21.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:21.50 | rwhitby | (the thousand page one, not the 2 page e-brochure :-) |
| 13:22.18 | prpplague | XorA: yea, me too |
| 13:22.32 | rwhitby | but you both are probably under NDA |
| 13:22.52 | rwhitby | prpplague: 128MB or 128Mb ? |
| 13:22.58 | prpplague | XorA: yea, the datasheet and spec i have only lists 64mb available |
| 13:23.16 | prpplague | rwhitby: 512megabit x 32 |
| 13:23.35 | cb22 | prpplague, IIRC someone said that it has 64mb internal |
| 13:23.40 | cb22 | and then an external 64mb chip |
| 13:23.52 | prpplague | cb22: thats what i suspected |
| 13:24.11 | prpplague | cb22: the question i have is what external sdram chip are they planning to use |
| 13:24.26 | cb22 | dunno, probably the same as gta01? |
| 13:25.40 | rwhitby | anyone going to the arm developer conference next week? |
| 13:26.10 | prpplague | cb22: the adress/databus for the s3c2442 is 1.8v which is not the same as the gta01's using the s3c2410 |
| 13:26.24 | prpplague | cb22: which means they'd need to use a 1.8v mobile sdram |
| 13:26.25 | rwhitby | (http://www.rtcgroup.com/arm/2007/) |
| 13:26.40 | prpplague | rwhitby: i wanted to, but we are in the middle of a serious dev cycle |
| 13:26.57 | rwhitby | prpplague: is it worth going to? |
| 13:27.25 | prpplague | rwhitby: if you are heavy in to arm, i've heard its pretty good |
| 13:28.57 | *** part/#openmoko mythtv (n=mythtv@124-169-249-21.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:29.48 | prpplague | rwhitby: http://www.elektronika.opatnet.cz/datasheet/U/um_s3c2442b_rev12.pdf |
| 13:30.00 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 13:30.04 | rwhitby | thx |
| 13:31.16 | prpplague | rwhitby: np |
| 13:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-169-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:34.22 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
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| 13:36.41 | *** join/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:39.25 | thos | hello |
| 13:42.28 | thos | zecke: are the python bindings on http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/bindings/ fairly complete |
| 13:43.25 | *** join/#openmoko morpheus (i=morpheus@gateway/tor/x-58512dce120d83cf) |
| 13:43.47 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.169.149) |
| 13:45.57 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin_ (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-169-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:52.12 | zecke | thos: fairly, the examples need updating |
| 13:52.28 | zecke | thos: and I think mokojournal could be more pythonic and lacks a method or two |
| 13:53.50 | *** join/#openmoko RalphEichelberge (n=openmoko@gateway.tourist-mobile.com) |
| 13:54.01 | RalphEichelberge | hallo jungs |
| 13:54.07 | RalphEichelberge | hey guys |
| 13:54.34 | thos | zecke: lots of things in mokojournal could be improved ;-) |
| 13:54.57 | RalphEichelberge | took the newest build from scaredycat - tryed to open the dialer - nothing happend |
| 13:55.04 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 13:55.18 | thos | RalphEichelberge: what dates it the build? |
| 13:55.43 | _diego__ | does anybody know if gdb works fine on neo? |
| 13:55.44 | RalphEichelberge | than i shut down X and gsmd and tryed to directly connect to modem using cu |
| 13:55.58 | RalphEichelberge | after connect it stalled |
| 13:56.10 | thos | _diego__: as long as you have dbg packages installed it should work |
| 13:56.21 | thos | RalphEichelberge: does contacts load? |
| 13:56.25 | RalphEichelberge | 26 th Sep |
| 13:56.48 | _diego__ | I've installed matchbox-2-panel_dbg |
| 13:56.51 | RalphEichelberge | i have to take a look |
| 13:57.05 | _diego__ | gdb /usr/bin/matchbox-2-panel <pid> |
| 13:57.17 | _diego__ | and gdb says that not have debug symbols |
| 13:57.35 | thos | _diego__: you may need to enable debug build in bitbake conf |
| 13:58.17 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 13:58.27 | _diego__ | thos: do u have some link about it? |
| 13:58.31 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.169.149) |
| 13:58.35 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:58.36 | RalphEichelberge | well i just connected to my neo via ssh and started the X server again |
| 13:58.42 | thos | _diego__: no, sorry |
| 13:58.53 | RalphEichelberge | the cooles thing is that the screen is still black |
| 13:59.26 | RalphEichelberge | and i cant wake it |
| 14:00.10 | thos | RalphEichelberge: take the battery out and start again? |
| 14:00.10 | RalphEichelberge | is there anything i can do to switch the lights on? |
| 14:00.12 | _diego__ | RalphEichelberge: are u still connected to neo? Often when happened to me, it some problem in starting up X |
| 14:00.17 | thos | RalphEichelberge: I fixed a bug yesterday (or possibly the day before) that was preventing gui applications from working properly |
| 14:00.20 | _diego__ | look if X is running |
| 14:00.43 | RalphEichelberge | yes X is running |
| 14:00.48 | RalphEichelberge | neod is running |
| 14:00.54 | RalphEichelberge | openmoko-today too |
| 14:01.50 | RalphEichelberge | well - i had to stop /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm stop and start again |
| 14:02.03 | RalphEichelberge | now i have lights up again :) |
| 14:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 14:02.57 | RalphEichelberge | if i klick on the Dialer (upper left hand corner icon) it is loading and loading and .... |
| 14:03.46 | _diego__ | btw: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:GTA01:Kernel |
| 14:04.18 | thos | RalphEichelberge: does the address book load? |
| 14:04.21 | RalphEichelberge | if i try to start the dialer app from the apps list i get the splash screen |
| 14:04.29 | RalphEichelberge | no address book dont load |
| 14:04.49 | thos | RalphEichelberge: update your libmokoui |
| 14:04.59 | thos | RalphEichelberge: it is out of date and has a bug |
| 14:05.09 | RalphEichelberge | like how? |
| 14:05.15 | RalphEichelberge | ipkg? |
| 14:05.49 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@89.202.147.66) |
| 14:08.34 | thos | RalphEichelberge: yes, or just flash a new image |
| 14:08.51 | RalphEichelberge | which new image? |
| 14:08.55 | RalphEichelberge | url? |
| 14:09.10 | thos | an image newer than your previous one :-) |
| 14:09.42 | RalphEichelberge | i was building since 2 days before but it didnt complete - now i am building again (for 2 day probalby) |
| 14:09.50 | RalphEichelberge | there is none |
| 14:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin__ (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-169-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:10.03 | RalphEichelberge | i have the one from 27. Sep |
| 14:10.25 | RalphEichelberge | _diego_ : cool link btw :) |
| 14:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko psymin (n=psymin@smtpstatic.blackfoot.net) |
| 14:11.11 | RalphEichelberge | do you have a ipkg with the new gui? |
| 14:15.57 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFD978.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 14:18.39 | *** part/#openmoko RalphEichelberge (n=openmoko@gateway.tourist-mobile.com) |
| 14:25.22 | hozer | where's the darn terminal on qtopia... |
| 14:30.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FreeBSD]] |
| 14:31.35 | cb22 | hmm |
| 14:31.37 | cb22 | thats delayed |
| 14:33.59 | Maledictus | yep |
| 14:34.49 | cb22 | Maledictus, stop hanging around here and carry on getting freebsd to work :) |
| 14:34.59 | Maledictus | hehe |
| 14:35.16 | Maledictus | I'm not even out of the assembler part :( |
| 14:35.37 | Maledictus | nearly ;) |
| 14:36.25 | cb22 | heh |
| 14:37.49 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 14:39.54 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D814E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 14:45.44 | emdete | he, there is a freebsd port on the way? wow! |
| 14:47.27 | jpcass_ | what's good about freebsd, compared to linux? |
| 14:48.09 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:49.23 | roh | jpcass_ nothing.. its just different |
| 14:49.58 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:50.06 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:50.08 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 14:50.11 | roh | jpcass we also could start a senseless license or paradigm based discussion about it, but in the end its good we don't have a monoculture in the oss world |
| 14:50.18 | cb22 | hehe |
| 14:50.21 | cb22 | nice answer roh |
| 14:50.21 | Fatal | hahahahah, amazing, I'm seriously starting to think none of you guys are real, since it's impossible to get fic to charge our CCs |
| 14:50.27 | roh | the rest does not matter really ;) |
| 14:50.30 | Fatal | FIC should accept paypal :P |
| 14:50.45 | roh | Fatal: where are you located? |
| 14:50.54 | rwhitby | Fatal: would you prefer that you CC be charged but nothing shipped? |
| 14:50.55 | Fatal | sweden |
| 14:51.09 | Fatal | rwhitby: true :) |
| 14:51.09 | roh | Fatal cc charging on the 3rd shipping started some days ago |
| 14:51.23 | Fatal | roh: yeah I know |
| 14:51.32 | emdete | Fatal: i first had the same impression but now i play around with such a thing ;) |
| 14:53.05 | LarstiQ | Fatal: if you want I could arrange to have a picture taken of my P1 today to convince you I do exist :p |
| 14:53.28 | Maledictus | I'm really just a bot |
| 14:53.39 | emdete | LarstiQ: only with a newspaper from today please... |
| 14:53.39 | Fatal | It's kind of amusing though, orderd the first day, and they still haven't tried the second cc we sent in (first one didn't work since mastercards full security protocol isn't used by whomever FIC use) and by the looks of the latest mail from FIC they tried the mastercard _again_ and not the visa we sent in over a month ago |
| 14:54.08 | rwhitby | Fatal: it's a conspiracy against the swedes. |
| 14:54.11 | Fatal | (which we sent in to get the phones they said they had "reserved" for us) |
| 14:54.13 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.202.50.53) |
| 14:54.15 | Fatal | no, they just hate me |
| 14:54.29 | CVirus | never knew there was an IRC channel for the OpenMoko |
| 14:54.35 | CVirus | I'm dying to lay my hands on one |
| 14:54.52 | CVirus | the GTA02 is the final release for the market ? |
| 14:54.53 | XorA | CVirus: dont die too quickly then |
| 14:54.53 | aloril | CVirus: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:54.53 | LarstiQ | emdete: I was thinking of doing it with irc on the background |
| 14:54.58 | Fatal | (which one week later when we poked joustons private mail had been sent to someone else and they never botherd to use the cc we sent them) |
| 14:55.01 | Fatal | :D |
| 14:55.04 | Fatal | GNN :D |
| 14:55.06 | roh | Fatal: well.. taiwan is not in the un (due to china) and thus all bank-stuff is even worse when it comes to international payments. so we very often have problems with fraud-protection |
| 14:55.43 | Maledictus | maybe the eu should adopt taiwan |
| 14:55.52 | roh | Maledictus hrhr |
| 14:55.54 | CVirus | if the hardware wouldn't have changed from the GTA01 to the GTA02 ... I would have got myself a GTA01 |
| 14:55.54 | Fatal | :) |
| 14:56.10 | LarstiQ | Maledictus: that involves making a statement on the status of Taiwan China will not be happy with. |
| 14:56.22 | Maledictus | yes, hihi |
| 14:56.32 | XorA | we could ship Neos from Seaworld :-D |
| 14:56.41 | cjb_ie | sealand? |
| 14:56.44 | LarstiQ | Fatal: if all else fails I recommend attending the 24C3 with some spare cash |
| 14:56.53 | XorA | cjb_ie: yeah sorry, was think amusment park for some reason |
| 14:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:57.07 | XorA | www.sealandneo.com |
| 14:57.16 | Fatal | anyone got a phone number to FIC in tw? :) |
| 14:57.30 | XorA | Fatal: your talking to FIC |
| 14:57.56 | Fatal | XorA: who? |
| 14:58.05 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 14:58.23 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B11B1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:59.00 | roh | Fatal: well.. even with a phonenumber you will not get the right person.. also its abut 23:00 there |
| 14:59.11 | Fatal | a for crying out loud |
| 14:59.34 | XorA | ayway I is off |
| 15:00.26 | Fatal | I think the biggest insult ( :) ) was that jouston simply sent a boilerplate the last time |
| 15:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko ossman_ (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 15:01.22 | roh | Fatal: hm? i can assure you that he's trying really hard to keep you guys happy when it comes to cc and shipping stuff. but he also is one of less that 5 people who need to handle all this |
| 15:02.59 | SpeedEvil | Tie it to a dolphin? |
| 15:04.36 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
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| 15:12.07 | mwester | Good Morning. |
| 15:12.08 | mmazur | Flipper! |
| 15:12.52 | juri_ | jouston is overloaded, and it shows. |
| 15:13.11 | juri_ | that said, he did a good job getting my neo back from germany. :) |
| 15:15.47 | mwester | :) You're mixing your gods there. I think I'm tempting fate, and murphy is his prophet. |
| 15:16.12 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 15:16.28 | mwester | I shall flash the image, and see if I have indeed incurred the wrath of the powers that be. |
| 15:16.53 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e70cc9b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 15:17.13 | folken | .oO(crc error.) |
| 15:17.15 | Writchie | mmester: ya gonna do u-boot too just for fun? |
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| 15:18.50 | mwester | I really should. And if it actually worked, wouldn't that just infuriate Murphy? |
| 15:19.20 | CVirus | Any Egyptians around ? |
| 15:21.24 | CVirus | FIC was supposed to announce 5 other phones running OpenMoko this month |
| 15:21.34 | mmazur | It was? |
| 15:22.42 | *** join/#openmoko DB42 (n=wy@212.179.208.53) |
| 15:22.54 | *** part/#openmoko moo^ (n=sexycows@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 15:23.26 | DB42 | can anybody here give information about ARM devel boards? |
| 15:23.54 | CVirus | mmazur: There will also be 5 more OpenMoko devices - some not phones in the traditional sense - announced by FIC in September. |
| 15:24.06 | CVirus | mmazur: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_can_we_expect_in_future_versions.3F |
| 15:24.46 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-84-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:25.06 | roh | CVirus that does not mean we will anounce all future phones now (not that it would make any sense at all) |
| 15:25.29 | roh | CVirus when gta02 will be finally released, we will announce what comes next. |
| 15:25.34 | CVirus | I see |
| 15:25.47 | CVirus | I'm just very frustrated about the size of the Neo1973 screen |
| 15:27.33 | LarstiQ | CVirus: in what way? |
| 15:27.45 | CVirus | LarstiQ: 2.8'' |
| 15:27.51 | DB42 | is there any ARM discussion irc channels here ? |
| 15:28.11 | LarstiQ | CVirus: so..? |
| 15:28.20 | CVirus | LarstiQ: I'm short sighted |
| 15:28.21 | viq | CVirus: that small, that large, that bright, too high resolution, too small resolution, or what? |
| 15:28.35 | CVirus | ah .. it's small |
| 15:28.51 | LarstiQ | CVirus: so am I, but I wear glasses and find it's fine |
| 15:28.52 | juri_ | too clear! not touch sensitive enough! too big! |
| 15:29.08 | cjb_ie | juri_: it's also covered in fingerprints! |
| 15:29.09 | CVirus | hehe |
| 15:29.24 | viq | And the usb slot can't power my vibrator! |
| 15:29.35 | SpeedEvil | It's got a built in one. |
| 15:29.40 | SpeedEvil | Though it's not waterproof. |
| 15:29.43 | cjb_ie | viq: pfft, any decent... dynf SpeedEvil |
| 15:29.47 | juri_ | viq: i've got a power injector for that... uh.. i mean.. <silence> |
| 15:29.48 | cjb_ie | just put it in a condom |
| 15:30.42 | cjb_ie | hey, a touch sensitive vibrator |
| 15:30.49 | cjb_ie | there's gotta be a market opening there |
| 15:31.12 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 15:34.48 | psymin | Five more devices announced by FIC in September? |
| 15:35.14 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:35.38 | thomasg | is the current svn uboot-openmoko able to boot from SD? |
| 15:36.19 | CVirus | psymin: supposedly |
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| 15:45.15 | Maledictus | thomasg: I boot my test freebsd kernel from emulated SD in qemu-neo1973 |
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| 15:53.37 | thos | CIA-23: you suck |
| 15:53.43 | thos | I just did an important commit, and you quit! |
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| 15:55.42 | bedboi | re |
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| 15:56.04 | mwester | thos: perhaps it wanted better wages? |
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| 16:23.14 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 16:25.40 | chx | hi. I am not asking about when the GTA02 will be available, I can't wait but will there be GPS route planning for Vancouver, BC, Canada? |
| 16:26.20 | cjb_ie | chx: get involved with openstreetmap...? :) |
| 16:26.31 | chx | cjb_ie: maybe? |
| 16:26.46 | SpeedEvil | chihchun: probably not |
| 16:26.54 | SpeedEvil | at least not at launch |
| 16:27.04 | chx | cjb_ie: I am one of the lead developers of an opensource cms so floss community is not alien to me so yes i can get involved but my c and c++ skills are rusty to say the least |
| 16:27.11 | SpeedEvil | it requries either free maps, which are very spotty outside US and netherlansd. |
| 16:27.23 | cjb_ie | chx: well, i'm talking about gathering free maps, more so than coding |
| 16:27.25 | SpeedEvil | Or a paid app - which is not done. |
| 16:27.36 | chx | cjb_ie: in other words, i have not written a single line of C/C++ code in the last eight years or so |
| 16:27.40 | chx | ah |
| 16:27.42 | chx | gathering |
| 16:27.44 | cjb_ie | there's work being done in the osm community on routing apps. |
| 16:27.44 | chx | what that involves |
| 16:27.55 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-214-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:27.56 | chx | oh i'd be fine with a paid app |
| 16:27.57 | cjb_ie | get out there with a GPS and get annotating :) |
| 16:28.06 | chx | heh |
| 16:28.22 | chx | I am waiting for a PR visa to Vancouver |
| 16:28.29 | chx | and I am currently in Budapest, Hungary |
| 16:28.34 | cjb_ie | there's a lot of work to do, but there's lots of progress being made |
| 16:28.36 | chx | so that's somewhat... problematic. |
| 16:28.51 | cjb_ie | ah. /me passed through feriheygi airport a few weeks ago :) |
| 16:29.16 | *** join/#openmoko jaj (n=jaj@4be54-4-82-234-154-189.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:30.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Student_phone]] |
| 16:32.32 | *** part/#openmoko LavieX (n=ltobey@machine77.Level3.com) |
| 16:39.45 | *** part/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@adsl-212-16-103-6.taloyhtioverkot.fi) |
| 16:40.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3053 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c): |
| 16:40.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c: (moko_hint_entry_set_text): |
| 16:40.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Make sure to reset the hinting status before setting text |
| 16:40.28 | *** part/#openmoko zilux (n=gcasse@212.155.183.253) |
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| 16:59.20 | cindy | I remember reading about this but can not remember what to do about it. I built the latest image and get " Useless empty GtkIconSource". Can someone point me to the wiki or even the log archive for this IRC? |
| 16:59.54 | *** part/#openmoko chx (n=chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
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| 17:01.06 | thomasg | cindy: log archive: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/ |
| 17:01.29 | cindy | Thanks! |
| 17:01.30 | *** join/#openmoko waecky (n=waecky@p549CDE60.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:07.39 | *** join/#openmoko xbitflux (n=x@adsl-75-50-149-224.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:08.47 | xbitflux | have you guys given any thought to adding a slideout keyboard/pad ? |
| 17:08.48 | aloril | xbitflux: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:09.22 | aloril | xbitflux: my *guess* is that some future model will have something like that |
| 17:10.38 | xbitflux | I know that the units are backordered, but I'm a serious developer and I have commerical interest in the hardware.. any way to get one ? |
| 17:10.52 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 17:12.32 | Mek | hmm... nice.. I ordered my neo two days ago, and today I got a confirmation that they charged me, and it would ship soon :) |
| 17:13.01 | xbitflux | that is, guess I'll just order one directly |
| 17:14.47 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 17:16.29 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin_ (n=musekini@dslb-084-058-169-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:16.55 | xbitflux | who is working on the power management code ? |
| 17:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
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| 17:24.44 | Writchie | xbitflux: no-one admits to it - according to roh most things for resume have been tested except for gsm modem |
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| 17:39.46 | torpor | sup folks? |
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| 17:41.58 | abraxa_ | cindy: That issue has been fixed yesterday and the temporary workaround was to use an older version of libmokoui2 |
| 17:42.41 | abraxa_ | Sup torpor ;3 |
| 17:44.16 | torpor | anything new folks? |
| 17:44.23 | torpor | been a while since i sync'ed up with moko .. |
| 17:45.02 | abraxa_ | I always wonder what kind of response people expect to this question, heh |
| 17:45.48 | mmazur | Maybe something like "sure, the new snapshot has software for controling bluetooth-enabled coffe makers". |
| 17:45.53 | mmazur | Come to thing about it. |
| 17:45.59 | mmazur | I'm patenting that! |
| 17:46.14 | torpor | i really wish it did |
| 17:46.26 | torpor | i wish there was an openmoko cheerleader who was keeping everyone informed about whats going on .. |
| 17:46.31 | torpor | really a drag to have to *ask* .. |
| 17:47.04 | Mek | you don't have to ask, you could just search/read.... |
| 17:47.15 | torpor | where? what? |
| 17:47.22 | torpor | there is no central location for news |
| 17:47.32 | torpor | asking in IRC is the only way to get news. |
| 17:47.33 | ferric | its called staying involved. |
| 17:47.38 | torpor | planet.openmoko == dumb |
| 17:47.41 | ferric | torpor: read community, if yu can deal with it |
| 17:47.46 | torpor | i do read it. |
| 17:47.48 | ferric | s/yu/you |
| 17:47.54 | mmazur | ferric, staying involved? You're talking like a woman ;) |
| 17:48.00 | ferric | i am a woman |
| 17:48.07 | torpor | uh oh |
| 17:48.13 | mmazur | Erm. |
| 17:48.16 | mmazur | That was... |
| 17:48.19 | mmazur | Unexpected. |
| 17:48.20 | ferric | oh no. i didn't just say that. |
| 17:48.25 | ferric | mmazur: just kidding. |
| 17:48.35 | mookid | hillarious! |
| 17:49.00 | gcb77_work | lol, like any open-source project OpenMoko knowledge must be earned, not gathered |
| 17:49.17 | mookid | profound |
| 17:49.24 | torpor | well i sit here and watch the logs every day. i make update every day. i read the lists every day. |
| 17:49.38 | torpor | i'm just wondering if anyone who is actually alive in the channel right now has news. |
| 17:50.02 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 17:50.52 | Writchie | torpor: the project manager has been locked up in a closet for nine months now |
| 17:50.59 | gcb77_work | I bricked my NEO trying to get the correct uBoot env to allow dual environment (openmoko & qtopia) last weekend |
| 17:51.07 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 17:51.15 | gcb77_work | Then spent this week using the debug board to revive it |
| 17:51.19 | torpor | Writchie: i know, you told me the same thing last week .. |
| 17:51.36 | torpor | gcb77_work: would be good to hear about your results tho .. |
| 17:51.46 | torpor | you gonna get boot-from-SD set up so you can do that with openmoko? |
| 17:51.50 | gcb77_work | I got both running right now |
| 17:52.39 | gcb77_work | the default env did not work for me, had to add my own entry to boot from SD (copied from the wiki page) |
| 17:52.54 | gcb77_work | It was the only way to get around the kernel "set correct root=" message |
| 17:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B11B1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 18:04.57 | hozer | so.. um, has anyone experienced bug #883 when making calls? |
| 18:05.28 | hozer | (audible GSM interference) |
| 18:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@brusc.guerrier.info) |
| 18:09.17 | gcb77_work | I hear GSM interference when the antena powers up and the NEO is near my computer speakers... but that happens with other GSM phones |
| 18:10.18 | hozer | gcb77_work: go in the stairwell, or some place you have less than 2 bars of signal and make a call |
| 18:11.06 | hozer | or if you can call an Iowa/US number I can let you listen to it ;) |
| 18:13.46 | Writchie | hozer: I had this for a while when the audio wasn't set up correctly. When I eliminated the sidetone through the mixers the problem disappearred along with near end and far end echos. |
| 18:14.12 | hozer | interesting |
| 18:14.16 | hozer | what is the sidetone? |
| 18:14.25 | hozer | and can you post that comment to the bug report? |
| 18:14.59 | Writchie | sidetone is an ancient telephone artifact whereby you hear your own voice in order to keep you from talking too loud. |
| 18:16.00 | dkr | torpor: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges for news ;) |
| 18:16.27 | Writchie | hozer: it was introduced in early telephone sets (308/500) to provide automatic talker compensation on longer lines |
| 18:16.31 | *** join/#openmoko hultqvist (n=pdh@80.251.192.5) |
| 18:17.18 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@rn083002.morris.umn.edu) |
| 18:17.29 | hozer | Writchie: ah.. a google for 'gsm sidetone' turns up some interesting info on the iphone |
| 18:21.27 | DPThought | i find the gsm background noise funny. The network puts noise on your signal to give you confidence that the line is working. Somehow it would be anying if there where absolute silence when noone speaks. |
| 18:21.51 | Aria | And it is. |
| 18:21.54 | Aria | "Are you there?" |
| 18:22.13 | torpor | dkr: thanks |
| 18:22.20 | hozer | DPThought: it's not just background noise.. it's RF interference.. getting into the audio |
| 18:22.26 | Writchie | DPThought: the background noise (comfort noise) is IIRC from the handset |
| 18:23.04 | Writchie | DPThought: comfort noise is pretty much "white noise" - the GSM interference burst are unmistakedly different |
| 18:25.09 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-211-043.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:25.18 | hozer | I found out what it sounded like putting a regular corded handset next to my neo when testing it out ;) |
| 18:25.46 | hozer | cdma seems to make no audible interference.. |
| 18:26.11 | Writchie | hozer: the noise is characteristic of tdma |
| 18:26.48 | Writchie | it's easily picked up by high impedance audio circuits that have little rf suppression |
| 18:27.04 | DPThought | yea, that aspect of gsm really sucks. You get these sounds everywhere. Even shut down speakers come to life when a handset is pinging :) |
| 18:27.53 | hozer | so what I'm wondering is if GTA02 will have this problem.. |
| 18:28.05 | Writchie | hozer: what problem? |
| 18:28.11 | hozer | or if adjusting the sidetone can fix it |
| 18:28.26 | hozer | bug 883 |
| 18:28.48 | Writchie | at present I have zero audio problems near or far end - call is indistinquishable from other GSM handsets |
| 18:29.12 | hozer | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=883 |
| 18:29.18 | Writchie | except for neo receive speaker maybe having some audio shaping problems |
| 18:30.00 | Writchie | hozer: you can't tell if this is a real problem until the audio setup is completely correct. |
| 18:30.23 | hozer | can you put some comments in the bug on how to fix the audio |
| 18:30.42 | Writchie | will do |
| 18:31.03 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 18:31.12 | hozer | it's definitely related to signal strength of the tower |
| 18:32.03 | Writchie | hozer: the noise is proportional to transmit level - the further you are from the tower the higher your transmit power |
| 18:32.26 | Writchie | hozer: I am at so-called one bar on most handsets. |
| 18:32.40 | *** join/#openmoko miyata3012 (n=Matthew_@d-199-229-18.bootp.Virginia.EDU) |
| 18:33.07 | buz | mhh asus eee will use atheros chip, any chance that is ar6k as well? |
| 18:33.39 | Writchie | hozer: BTW - I tested with SMS during an active call and the signalling noise is gone: |
| 18:33.51 | roh | buz i don't think so. rather a normal 5xxx series or other notebook stuff |
| 18:34.15 | buz | 5xxx doesnt seem very well (if at all) supported even in 2.6.22 |
| 18:34.33 | buz | on my GF's notebook, 2.6.22 doesnt even figure out it's a wifi chip |
| 18:35.04 | dpavlin | is there any public server with latest builds? (is http://buildhost.openmoko.org/ sometimes stale?) |
| 18:35.08 | dpavlin | should I make one? |
| 18:35.44 | DPThought | a by the way. completely unrelated question but maybe soneone knows the answer. Is there something like a standard vor LCD modules and touchpads like pin layout and drivers? I have here a Nokia 770 with a broken Display and i like to somehow add a new one. The original display seems unavailable on the open marked |
| 18:35.53 | *** join/#openmoko evanpro (n=evan@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) |
| 18:36.04 | Aria | DPThought: Sadly not |
| 18:36.27 | buz | n770 lately have become quite cheap |
| 18:36.34 | buz | chances are an open market lcd might cost more |
| 18:36.37 | Writchie | $135 |
| 18:36.44 | *** part/#openmoko miyata3012 (n=Matthew_@d-199-229-18.bootp.Virginia.EDU) |
| 18:36.46 | Writchie | doubt you'd find a display for that |
| 18:36.50 | Aria | Yeah. For sure. |
| 18:36.59 | DPThought | good point |
| 18:37.13 | buz | shame they dont sell em where i live |
| 18:37.18 | buz | at that price i'd pick one up |
| 18:37.21 | Writchie | i paid more than that for modules only a year ago |
| 18:37.26 | hozer | Writchie: Thanks for the info |
| 18:37.43 | DPThought | but maybe a salvaged display from something really cheap. broken psp or something like that |
| 18:38.03 | Aria | But no standard connector nor controller. |
| 18:38.03 | buz | psp doesnt even have the same resolution |
| 18:38.14 | Writchie | DPThought: that kind of luck rarely happens |
| 18:38.35 | Writchie | there arn't all that many WVGA in that size |
| 18:39.09 | buz | its too big for phone and too small for notebooks, so yes, few people will buy them |
| 18:39.25 | DPThought | resolution and size would be more or less unimportant. As long as i can get it to work on the same pins without too crazy hacks |
| 18:40.04 | buz | i doubt hildon would work particularly well on another resolution |
| 18:40.12 | DPThought | would put it into a different case |
| 18:40.31 | DPThought | and would nt use hildon. :) |
| 18:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko jarthur (n=jarthur@rrcs-71-42-227-214.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:41.43 | jarthur | Is GTA02 the consumer version? |
| 18:41.44 | aloril | jarthur: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:41.52 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@213-64-149-53-no39.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:41.55 | DPThought | moko or qtopia. Im not sure yet. I lke to put that stuff unto my old (really old) gsm handset and make a wlan ip-phone from that. (It's a old AEG Telecar Phne. About 5Kg weight) |
| 18:42.58 | DPThought | if the display stuff does not wirk i would probably switch to a serial dotmatrix display via usb. But would be a pitty |
| 18:43.01 | *** join/#openmoko rushforth (n=rushfort@sifl.rushforthnetworks.com) |
| 18:44.14 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 18:46.52 | *** join/#openmoko eiko (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 18:48.52 | buz | so does qtopia come with sip? a 130$ sip wlan phone sure would be neat |
| 18:49.33 | kristian-m | DPThought how will you connect that thing to wlan? |
| 18:49.45 | buz | kristian-m: n770 does have wlan |
| 18:49.54 | *** join/#openmoko rushforth (n=rushfort@sifl.rushforthnetworks.com) |
| 18:50.09 | kristian-m | buz he's got an old car-phone |
| 18:50.24 | buz | i suppose he wants to put the n770 hardware INTO that |
| 18:50.34 | kristian-m | i see |
| 18:50.51 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@ACCF589A.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:51.16 | DPThought | buz: jup, otopia has sip. |
| 18:51.41 | ScaredyCat | there's an iax client too.. |
| 18:52.10 | buz | i cant be bothered to learn asterisk myself |
| 18:52.18 | ScaredyCat | ahhh.. k... |
| 18:52.24 | buz | until someone comes up with a gui i can understand in 5min i just wont deal with it ;) |
| 18:52.26 | ScaredyCat | well, it helps if you know it... :) |
| 18:52.42 | DPThought | qtopia would be a fairly complete soltion for me if i somehow get a framebuffer working |
| 18:53.20 | DPThought | or did anyone hear about external displays (usb, serial) with framebuffer drivers on linux? |
| 18:53.21 | buz | qvfb maybe? draw to x? |
| 18:53.29 | buz | there are usb vga cards |
| 18:53.29 | ScaredyCat | all the asterisk gui's are crap, and it's not acttually that hard to learn |
| 18:53.41 | jarthur | The Qtopia Greephone is expensive though, ya? |
| 18:53.41 | buz | its just way overkill for what i need |
| 18:53.52 | DPThought | buz: that could be a soltion. i will look into that... |
| 18:53.55 | buz | i have a PAP2, that does everythin gi want (minus voicemail) |
| 18:54.08 | ScaredyCat | jarthur: you can run qtopia on the neo |
| 18:54.19 | jarthur | oh, ok, mea culpa. :) |
| 18:54.35 | buz | soon there will be more neos running qtopia than greenphones |
| 18:54.42 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 18:54.48 | *** join/#openmoko morpheus (i=morpheus@gateway/tor/x-18bc42f624faec48) |
| 18:54.50 | buz | (there would be already if fic actually shipped some neos ;) |
| 18:54.52 | DPThought | sure *g* |
| 18:54.52 | jarthur | The Neos are prettier. |
| 18:55.05 | buz | cost 40% of greenphone price |
| 18:55.36 | buz | i'm still not quite sure why the greenphone really costs that much |
| 18:55.38 | jarthur | Yea. |
| 18:55.39 | jarthur | So I'm thinking about buying the GTA01... but development hobbyism would be secondary for my need for a working phone with addressbook/bluetooth/etc. I assume the GTA01 is not for me then? |
| 18:55.54 | buz | supposedly it works quite well with qtopia |
| 18:55.59 | ScaredyCat | it does |
| 18:56.09 | DPThought | qtopia sucks a bit without a keypad. it really looks a bit like it was never really intended this way |
| 18:56.14 | buz | i wouldnt say OM itself is useable right now |
| 18:56.18 | ScaredyCat | if it's only a 2nd phone then it shouldn;t be a problem jarthur |
| 18:56.38 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe_ (n=Eric@139.57.12.165) |
| 18:56.50 | DPThought | however, bye for no. going home... |
| 18:56.50 | ScaredyCat | DPThought: it doesn't need a keypad at all |
| 18:56.57 | jarthur | Ahh, it'd be a primary phone. Thanks. |
| 18:57.18 | ScaredyCat | as a primary phone, it'd be a bit soon |
| 18:57.19 | jarthur | My Palm Treo 680 bit the dust today. :) |
| 18:57.24 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 18:57.36 | buz | get a 20EUR prepay until neo actually ships again ;) |
| 18:57.48 | jarthur | Yea, :( is right. Bad investment on my part. |
| 18:58.13 | jarthur | That's an idea. |
| 18:58.37 | ScaredyCat | yeah, even the crheapest pre-pay is more useable |
| 18:59.39 | buz | not really no |
| 18:59.49 | buz | i had to write sms on a keypad last night, pure horror |
| 18:59.56 | jarthur | :) |
| 19:00.01 | buz | i dont understand how 2billion people put up with that |
| 19:00.12 | buz | and go on complaining just how touchscreen suck |
| 19:00.15 | jarthur | How do you write SMS on the Neo, graffiti-style stylusing? |
| 19:00.18 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin__ (n=musekini@dslb-088-068-015-233.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:00.29 | buz | softkeyboard |
| 19:00.33 | jarthur | ahh, ok |
| 19:01.05 | buz | neither do i |
| 19:01.14 | buz | it's by any means the most over priced form of traffic there is |
| 19:01.21 | buz | even satellite calls in airplanes are cheaper |
| 19:01.28 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 19:01.38 | jarthur | I've heard they're cheaper in Asia. |
| 19:01.45 | jarthur | SMSes that is. |
| 19:01.53 | buz | everything's cheaper in asia |
| 19:02.00 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but the flight costs are the killer ;) |
| 19:02.07 | jarthur | I use it because it seems that girls I'm attracted to tend to prefer SMS over voice. |
| 19:02.41 | ScaredyCat | they'd be too young for me then :) |
| 19:03.47 | buz | well sms sure beats voice |
| 19:03.47 | buz | all sorts of asynchronous communication beat voice calls |
| 19:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit_ (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:04.15 | buz | age of consent isnt the same everywhere you know ;) |
| 19:05.05 | cjb_ie | it's not always about age of consent... it's about whether they're mature enough not to wreck your head |
| 19:05.22 | ScaredyCat | anythin <25 is too young for me now |
| 19:05.46 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 19:06.04 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: yeah, i'm starting to think the same. |
| 19:06.10 | viq | cjb_ie: s/head/bed/ ? :P |
| 19:06.21 | cjb_ie | there's some damn cute 20 year olds around college though *sigh* |
| 19:06.26 | viq | heh |
| 19:06.37 | buz | they can wreck my bed all they want |
| 19:06.45 | cjb_ie | yeah, beds can be replaced |
| 19:06.46 | viq | and how old are you guys to keep yourselves to 25+s ? |
| 19:06.53 | viq | lol |
| 19:07.32 | viq | "in my days, when the dinosaurs were still young..." ;) |
| 19:07.52 | mjr | 25 is the minimum age for people aged 36 to date, ref. xkcd |
| 19:08.04 | cjb_ie | oh yeah, half plus seven innit |
| 19:08.16 | cjb_ie | 23 for me then |
| 19:08.19 | mjr | yeah |
| 19:08.41 | buz | wait a second, they need to be older? |
| 19:08.43 | buz | SCNR |
| 19:08.53 | ScaredyCat | ... in hex |
| 19:08.56 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 19:08.59 | mmazur | You poor thing :( |
| 19:09.04 | viq | lol |
| 19:09.13 | mmazur | It's cruel to let ppl live that long. |
| 19:09.18 | viq | lmao |
| 19:09.24 | cjb_ie | mmazur: yeah, put us out of our misery will you |
| 19:09.32 | jarthur | lol |
| 19:09.56 | buz | is it age or do the young ones get stupider every year? |
| 19:10.08 | buz | (personally i think it's hiphops fault) |
| 19:10.23 | ScaredyCat | actually, I only want to hang around until the next couple of generations get to run the planet - I'm up for the laugh of the mess you're all about to make of it |
| 19:10.23 | buz | but i'm not entirely sure which direction the causality runs, really |
| 19:10.30 | mmazur | It must be terrible to be like over 25. Old, wrinkled, best years has passed. |
| 19:10.50 | buz | ... having to buy supplies from the friendly spammer ... |
| 19:10.52 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.72) |
| 19:10.55 | torpor | what i love is when young punks think they're not getting older |
| 19:10.56 | mmazur | buz, 8) |
| 19:11.03 | viq | ScaredyCat: they get to see the mess we and our predesesors (sp?) made too... |
| 19:11.11 | torpor | it won't be long until you're looking at those who are now 10 years old and go 'what the fuck?" |
| 19:11.27 | mmazur | It's been working so far. |
| 19:11.33 | torpor | <-- still 17 at heart. |
| 19:11.36 | torpor | 37 by the book |
| 19:11.39 | ScaredyCat | I'm pretty sure you're right buz... |
| 19:12.00 | buz | one usually is right about OR statements you know ;) |
| 19:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.72) |
| 19:12.21 | viq | buz: not necessarily :P |
| 19:12.22 | ScaredyCat | viq: yes... but the young ones now just seem .. well, errm, stupid |
| 19:12.26 | mmazur | Holy crap. |
| 19:12.40 | eikonos | mmazur: actually it's pretty good to be over 25. you learn a lot of things about yourself and the world that you don't even realize you could learn when you're younger |
| 19:12.40 | buz | yeah but were they stupid when you were 25? (dec) |
| 19:12.41 | mmazur | You mean you can be like that old and work on open source? |
| 19:12.42 | ScaredyCat | buz: no the one befre that |
| 19:12.44 | mmazur | That's neat. |
| 19:12.56 | ScaredyCat | <buz> is it age or do the young ones get stupider every year? |
| 19:13.06 | buz | yeah that one, i wonder which one it is |
| 19:13.12 | buz | acccording to iq stats its age |
| 19:13.29 | buz | but back in my days we only got drunk and stoned, didnt beat the shit out of each other |
| 19:13.36 | mmazur | Old farts. I'm just happy that it's possible to like do fun stuff later in life. |
| 19:13.53 | ScaredyCat | you do more fun stuff later... |
| 19:13.58 | buz | mmazur: mostly it's your budget that shifts from time to money ;) |
| 19:14.01 | *** join/#openmoko _ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 19:14.07 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host48-36-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:14.20 | mmazur | You know that complaining about younglings is what makes old farts old farts? :) Stop! |
| 19:14.34 | ScaredyCat | we know we're old farts... |
| 19:14.35 | viq | "The amount of intelligence on the planet is constant. the number of people - increases" ;) |
| 19:14.42 | buz | LOL |
| 19:14.49 | *** join/#openmoko rushforth (n=rushfort@sifl.rushforthnetworks.com) |
| 19:15.03 | ScaredyCat | we're in ur opunsorce fixin ur bugz |
| 19:15.12 | viq | I don't remember where I saw that, but it's a nice quote ;) |
| 19:15.39 | ScaredyCat | you saw that just then... after you typed it |
| 19:16.40 | viq | Nah, I've seen it ages ago. Probably a 'fortune' quote. |
| 19:17.15 | dkr | I saw that ages ago, but it was about the internet rather than the planet. :) |
| 19:17.19 | buz | google doesnt know it in that very phrasing |
| 19:17.55 | fobos | yah ;) and it only matters who came first to get his share ;P |
| 19:18.02 | buz | so if you dont have children you get to keep your intelligence to yourself |
| 19:18.03 | buz | ? |
| 19:18.13 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@lavalette.guerrier.info) |
| 19:18.30 | dkr | not just intelligence, but insanity, too |
| 19:18.37 | buz | thats ok |
| 19:18.46 | buz | being sane is not a necessarily good thing |
| 19:19.05 | *** join/#openmoko moo^ (n=sexycows@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 19:19.12 | fobos | depends on the point of view |
| 19:19.15 | fobos | ;) |
| 19:19.24 | ScaredyCat | fobos... |
| 19:19.26 | ScaredyCat | mmmm |
| 19:19.34 | buz | now take THAT |
| 19:20.23 | ScaredyCat | no, it was Prince not Take That |
| 19:20.52 | buz | why was i half expecting tha answer ;9 |
| 19:21.02 | viq | hehe |
| 19:21.16 | buz | but you're right, take that is even more painful |
| 19:21.38 | cjb_ie | buz: "insanity is hereditary; you get it from your children" |
| 19:22.08 | buz | that explains why old people get sort of out it |
| 19:22.09 | viq | :D |
| 19:22.56 | *** part/#openmoko _llll_ (i=llll@unaffiliated/llll/x-000002) |
| 19:23.27 | viq | Is there anything known about an IM app for OpenMoko? |
| 19:23.32 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:23.39 | ScaredyCat | the worst part about getting old it the fact that they start to butcher the old songs you know, and they think they're totally new songs... |
| 19:23.59 | viq | Or they think noone will know. |
| 19:24.16 | buz | viq: theres occasionally been talk about it |
| 19:24.22 | buz | but nothing coming up so far afaik |
| 19:24.32 | viq | buz: ok, thanks. |
| 19:24.35 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:24.52 | viq | I just can't imagine someone not making one... And one that would support jabber/xmpp at that ;) |
| 19:25.14 | buz | it needs to do xmpp |
| 19:25.19 | buz | everything else i can do without |
| 19:25.25 | ScaredyCat | I can't imagine trying to type... |
| 19:25.30 | buz | in fact, i'll prefer it not to be able to talk to msn |
| 19:26.02 | buz | that just wastes storage and ram |
| 19:26.20 | mjr | worse, encourages people to use it ;] |
| 19:26.31 | viq | lol |
| 19:26.43 | viq | ScaredyCat: well, there's a terminal application... ;) |
| 19:27.05 | ScaredyCat | true... but you only use that if you really have to.... |
| 19:27.06 | buz | i consider msn to be an idiot filter |
| 19:27.19 | buz | like windows, really |
| 19:27.26 | ScaredyCat | let's face it a bt/usb keyboard is going to be a must have |
| 19:27.43 | buz | yeah but one with real buttons, not that razr thingy from last night |
| 19:27.49 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 19:27.50 | buz | but also no bigger than that one |
| 19:28.20 | SpeedEvil | Full sized 105 key full-travel keyboard the size of a credit card. Simple matter of engineering. |
| 19:28.21 | buz | http://www.freedominput.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=30 |
| 19:28.35 | viq | Well, I was using a jabber client on a normal phone, so I guess I am masochistic enough to type on Neo too ;) |
| 19:28.39 | mmazur | ScaredyCat, I wouldn't call madonna's "American Pie" a butcher's job. |
| 19:28.39 | buz | same size, but with treo like buttons i buy any day |
| 19:28.59 | buz | no but dont cry for me argentina very nearly was |
| 19:29.01 | ScaredyCat | mmazur: yes, but I would - that's the difference |
| 19:29.26 | *** join/#openmoko musekinin__ (n=musekini@dslb-088-068-015-233.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:29.55 | fobos | what about speech recognition as interface for im-ing ;) |
| 19:30.01 | buz | http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cartft.com/image_db/MiniKey_Komplett.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/478&h=557&w=400&sz=42&tbnid=BdC7y_uT5CKiqM:&tbnh=133&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmini%2Busb%2Bkeyboard%26um%3D1&start=2&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=2 gimme that with bluetooth |
| 19:30.10 | cb22 | fobos, that would be tricky... |
| 19:30.17 | cb22 | like when you laugh, would it put lol or 'haha'' |
| 19:30.25 | buz | lol of course |
| 19:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 19:30.42 | buz | heck sometimes i have to restrain me from SAYING lol |
| 19:30.49 | cb22 | but what if it was a not-funny-but-im-laughing-cause-i-dont-wanna-talk lol? |
| 19:31.07 | viq | cb22: "lol" :P |
| 19:31.10 | Mek | fortunately 'lol' is a perfectly fine word in dutch to express you think it is funny :) |
| 19:31.18 | buz | it is? |
| 19:31.26 | cb22 | lol :) |
| 19:31.28 | *** join/#openmoko bja (n=bja@c83-250-145-245.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 19:31.43 | buz | you mean non-geeks wont stare at you? |
| 19:32.05 | cb22 | doesnt matter if you are a geek or not |
| 19:32.18 | cb22 | saying lol in public is like, 'hey everybody, i'm laughing' |
| 19:32.31 | buz | not around here it isnt |
| 19:32.33 | viq | But, er, a voice recognition for chat in a bus.... I don't think so. |
| 19:32.42 | cb22 | on a plane now... |
| 19:32.42 | *** join/#openmoko rushforth (n=rushfort@sifl.rushforthnetworks.com) |
| 19:33.00 | buz | needs a webcam, so you can cyber in a bus |
| 19:33.20 | ScaredyCat | wtf |
| 19:33.25 | buz | on second thought, better dont |
| 19:33.37 | buz | i have the suspicion that the wrong people would use it |
| 19:35.31 | fobos | cb22: what about this one <http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/pocketsphinx/> |
| 19:37.14 | fobos | i just google for it and this is what came out! there may be others |
| 19:38.02 | *** join/#openmoko rushforth (n=rushfort@sifl.rushforthnetworks.com) |
| 19:38.09 | mmazur | Hmmm. |
| 19:38.18 | mmazur | ScaredyCat, just checked up on the original. One point for you :( |
| 19:40.25 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@213-64-149-53-no39.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:40.48 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: New openmoko build dependency: libgtk2.0-dev |
| 19:40.54 | emdete | are there any people around working with openmoko for the greenphone? |
| 19:41.39 | buz | just think of the stares youll get on the train if you start with "finger, mount" |
| 19:42.11 | viq | buz: and continue with "fsck" :P |
| 19:42.52 | buz | and post to slashdot, exciplitely stating what everybody knows, namely IANAL |
| 19:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f048004077.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:45.46 | buz | i dont get it, why cant openmoko TELL what kind of driver they are writing for smedia? |
| 19:46.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: ATI to provide specs (was: Re: SMedia 3362) |
| 19:46.59 | ScaredyCat | seems odd.. |
| 19:49.22 | ScaredyCat | oh, and another sign you're getting old... |
| 19:49.40 | SpeedEvil | Policewomen are looking hotter? |
| 19:50.08 | ScaredyCat | when an advert for 'gocompare.com' comes on the tv and it annoys you that thaty say - 'go compare at gocompare.com' |
| 19:50.39 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil: policewomen are all hot, it's the uniform... :) |
| 19:51.07 | buz | tv ad always annoyed me |
| 19:51.10 | buz | thats no sign of age |
| 19:52.30 | viq | I just don't watch TV, what does that make me? ;) |
| 19:52.36 | buz | same as me i guess |
| 19:53.16 | ScaredyCat | well, I'm watching 'UFO' at the moment... |
| 19:53.56 | viq | I don't *have* TV |
| 19:55.29 | juri_ | i don't either. i have a ten foot 800x600 projection wall. ;) |
| 19:55.59 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:56.01 | ScaredyCat | pixels the size of a mini |
| 19:56.30 | juri_ | looks good, from a distance. |
| 19:57.01 | viq | heh |
| 19:57.47 | buz | juri_: so have i, but even then, i dont watch tv on it |
| 19:58.05 | juri_ | buz: as it should be. ;) |
| 19:58.12 | buz | besides the noise from the bloody infocus x1 gets more and more intolerable |
| 19:58.22 | buz | time i replace it with a 50" 15000:1 lcd |
| 19:58.32 | juri_ | mines a barcodata. |
| 19:58.45 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 19:58.51 | buz | at the time, the infocus was the only sub 1500EUR beamer |
| 19:58.55 | juri_ | i've gotten tired of the noise.. so i'm retrofiting my infocus 220 with an LED kit. |
| 19:58.58 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.165) |
| 19:58.58 | buz | its good, save for the noise |
| 19:59.15 | buz | well that wont help much with the DLP wheel will it? |
| 19:59.25 | buz | DLP wheel is noiser than the fans |
| 19:59.43 | juri_ | its an lcd model. |
| 19:59.58 | buz | ah lcd is not so noisy but colors of dlp is far better |
| 20:00.19 | buz | but all in all, unless you want 15feet, lcd is probably the better choice these days |
| 20:00.19 | juri_ | colourblind. :) |
| 20:00.28 | buz | full hd beamers are wawy overpriced |
| 20:01.20 | buz | now maybe you could have an array of four neo displays as beamer lcds? |
| 20:01.35 | buz | that would give 720p at leat |
| 20:02.05 | *** join/#openmoko henla464 (n=henla464@c-5863e455.019-357-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:02.06 | juri_ | 720p is overrated. i'm holding out for a $1200 1080p. ;) |
| 20:02.59 | cb22 | when they dont even give you 1080p tv :( |
| 20:03.10 | buz | if 24" is good enough, you can get it for 500USD ;) |
| 20:03.33 | juri_ | cb22: me and buz don't watch tv. ;P |
| 20:03.42 | buz | if done correctly, 1080i@60 is the same as 1080p@30 |
| 20:04.13 | buz | in fact, i have 1920x1200 in front of me, on 15.4" ;) |
| 20:04.20 | cb22 | if done correctly, you can have 4 girlfriends in bed with you at the same time, and have none of them know :) |
| 20:04.36 | buz | can you tape that? |
| 20:04.55 | buz | scrap that, make mpeg4-avc 1080p out of it |
| 20:05.00 | cb22 | hehe |
| 20:05.19 | cb22 | set up 3 dslrs |
| 20:05.28 | cb22 | with a burst rate of 10fps |
| 20:05.34 | cb22 | and time them perfectly :) |
| 20:05.40 | buz | you can get 1080p cams for not THAT much |
| 20:05.43 | buz | <2000USD |
| 20:05.46 | cb22 | ya |
| 20:05.47 | buz | cheaper than 3dslr |
| 20:05.49 | cb22 | but my wat is cooler |
| 20:05.52 | cb22 | way* |
| 20:05.54 | buz | one thing i'll never understand is why people pay for upscaling dvd players |
| 20:05.59 | buz | yeah and you can get 10mpixel hehehe |
| 20:06.14 | buz | (then again, i'm not sure you'd want even 1080p pr0n) |
| 20:06.15 | cb22 | need a hell of a big memory card |
| 20:06.25 | cb22 | or hell, rig a 15k rpm drive up to the CF ide interface |
| 20:06.25 | buz | SAN |
| 20:06.36 | buz | some dslr come with firewire |
| 20:06.48 | mjr | so how about that gpu, can it decode hd mpeg4? |
| 20:07.00 | cb22 | yeah, hd from 1998 |
| 20:07.05 | buz | mjr: core 2 duo 2ghz can decode 1080p just fine |
| 20:07.06 | cb22 | which was about 640x480 |
| 20:07.14 | buz | no need for gpu |
| 20:07.26 | buz | and it doesnt even go to 2ghz |
| 20:07.26 | mjr | buz, gta02 doesn't have a core 2 duo |
| 20:07.39 | buz | gta doesnt have hd screen, either |
| 20:08.11 | cb22 | 1080p is something like 6 times bigger |
| 20:08.18 | cb22 | or 9 times |
| 20:08.18 | cb22 | then 640x480 |
| 20:08.33 | buz | even 480p would be wasted on neo |
| 20:08.46 | cb22 | 240p? |
| 20:08.47 | buz | on that screen, 320x240 is more than enough |
| 20:09.13 | buz | that0s still ~140dpi |
| 20:09.23 | buz | which is more than the very most of pc screens |
| 20:09.32 | cb22 | i have an ipaq, at 168mhz |
| 20:09.35 | cb22 | running win mobile |
| 20:09.38 | buz | someone said 240p is doable |
| 20:09.43 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CD0DD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:09.45 | cb22 | and it can decode mpeg4 video perfectly |
| 20:09.49 | buz | mpeg4 simple is relatively cheap to decode |
| 20:09.50 | cb22 | at 320x240 |
| 20:09.52 | cb22 | and rotate it |
| 20:10.00 | buz | then so will neo |
| 20:10.02 | cb22 | mpeg4 video @ 200kb and mp3 audio @ 64 |
| 20:10.13 | cb22 | maybe tcpmp would be a nice thing to port? |
| 20:10.17 | buz | iiiieeew even 128kb sounds bad |
| 20:10.27 | cb22 | mono |
| 20:10.38 | cb22 | it could play 20fps no problem |
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| 20:10.47 | buz | you want 25fps tho |
| 20:11.06 | cb22 | http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/tcpmp.src.0.72RC1.tar.bz2 |
| 20:11.07 | buz | i do |
| 20:11.19 | buz | back when i was gaming, i could even tell teh difference between 25 and 40fps |
| 20:11.22 | buz | not sure if i can still do that |
| 20:11.29 | cb22 | buz, yeah i can too |
| 20:11.36 | cb22 | but only when i have fraps running :p |
| 20:11.41 | buz | no without |
| 20:11.43 | cb22 | lies |
| 20:11.55 | buz | no truly, we did a double blind test once |
| 20:12.13 | buz | because i would always complain about stuttering games |
| 20:12.15 | cb22 | you must've been really bored that day |
| 20:12.32 | buz | i think it was some lan part |
| 20:12.33 | buz | y |
| 20:12.58 | buz | i even occasionally complain about stuttering images on dvds |
| 20:13.20 | buz | my eyes must be overclocked or something |
| 20:13.33 | cb22 | must've been a 120hz monitor or something |
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| 20:13.44 | buz | at the time, 100hz non-interlaced |
| 20:13.44 | cb22 | or an lcd |
| 20:13.57 | buz | on a samsung crt |
| 20:14.31 | buz | tho i still laugh at people who play at 120fps on a 60hz lcd. or run their 2ms lcd at 60hz |
| 20:15.18 | cb22 | doesn't refresh rate ! matter for lcds? |
| 20:15.34 | buz | sort of |
| 20:15.43 | buz | they wont start flickering with too low refresh |
| 20:15.51 | SpeedEvil | They do. |
| 20:15.52 | buz | but obviously you cant display frames faster than your refresh time |
| 20:15.55 | SpeedEvil | If you go too low. |
| 20:16.03 | buz | depends on the model i think |
| 20:16.07 | SpeedEvil | Interlace. |
| 20:16.08 | buz | some just buffer themselves |
| 20:16.20 | buz | well duh, wtf runs an lcd interlaced |
| 20:16.30 | *** part/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CD0DD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:16.52 | buz | i cant deal with interlaced crts for computing. gives me headache in no time |
| 20:21.15 | Shoragan | has anyone done kernel debugging via jtag? |
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| 20:32.55 | prpplague | TimRiker: hey tim, whats cookin |
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| 20:36.25 | thomasg | ok, for all the guys who want to boot from SDHC: SDHC is not supported by u-boot (yet?). how to boot then? just flash a kernel with mmc and ext2 (or whatever) support to the internal nand. than you can create a new bootmenu option, which lets the flashed kernel load the rootfs from the SDHC. and here's how I did it: |
| 20:36.28 | thomasg | setenv menu_5 Boot from SDHC: setenv bootargs root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 console=tty0 loglevel=8 rootdelay=5 neo1973-nand:0x00040000(u-boot),0x00004000(u-boot_env),0x00200000(kernel),0x000a0000(splash)\; nand read.e 0x32000000 kernel\; bootm 0x32000000 |
| 20:37.00 | emdete | thomasg: can you write a wiki about that? |
| 20:37.05 | thomasg | emdete: on the way |
| 20:37.19 | thomasg | will put it into the boot from sd article |
| 20:37.25 | emdete | :) great. i will try that but later... |
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| 20:44.00 | mwester | thomasg: I just added a kernel patch that should let us boot a new kernel right from an existing kernel (kexec). That's another way to do it. |
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| 20:46.50 | thomasg | mwester: no bad idea, but for that you'd have to boot the internal system first (it's ok for testing purposes), woudln't you? |
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| 20:50.09 | mwester | Yes, but you don't even need to start init - you can boot up to a script that just loads the modules for the filesystem necessary to find the new kernel, mount /proc and sysfs, then kexec load and boot the new kernel. |
| 20:51.42 | XorA|gone | mwester: you just described altboot :-) |
| 20:52.44 | mwester | :) We need CoreDump|afk to port it. |
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| 21:11.48 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Message duplicates (was: Changes between GTA1 and GTA2?) |
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| 21:48.34 | sunix | hia, is there anybody there ? |
| 21:48.53 | juri_ | nope. |
| 21:48.56 | sunix | :) |
| 21:49.05 | ferric | hey juri |
| 21:49.40 | mwester | "toddles"? |
| 21:49.41 | abraxa_ | sunix: What's up? |
| 21:49.44 | sunix | i'm want to start (trying) to do some dev on openmoko ... folowing the wiki : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course and .... |
| 21:49.59 | *** join/#openmoko YJGF (n=kaaa@ool-43501e36.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:50.22 | sunix | Change your BBFILE_COLLECTIONS line to look like this: BBFILE_COLLECTIONS = "upstream local overlay" |
| 21:50.22 | sunix | -> does't have that variable in the file |
| 21:50.43 | juri_ | mwester: like a toddler? :) |
| 21:51.00 | mwester | That's a slooooww way to get home... |
| 21:51.18 | sunix | abraxa_: :) |
| 21:54.22 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54953041.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:54.25 | abraxa_ | sunix: The wiki is slightly outdated because OpenMoko no longer uses an OE overlay, so it no longer uses BBFILE_COLLECTIONS either, I assume |
| 21:54.33 | abraxa_ | sunix: Just go ahead and add the variable |
| 21:54.43 | sunix | abraxa_: i see |
| 21:55.19 | sunix | abraxa_: really ... |
| 21:55.47 | sunix | abraxa_: do you think its a good start to follow that wiki ? |
| 21:56.41 | abraxa_ | sunix: That depends on what you want to do |
| 21:57.22 | sunix | i want to try to do some stuff on the media player |
| 21:57.41 | abraxa_ | Ah |
| 21:57.43 | sunix | abraxa_: or see what i can do :p |
| 21:57.51 | abraxa_ | In that case you don't need OE |
| 21:58.28 | abraxa_ | Just compiling & installing gsmd, libmokoui2 and friends to a local sandbox is sufficient |
| 21:58.43 | sunix | abraxa_: in fact i really want to make it work and because it may only involve ui stuff i though it would be easy to start to have a look to that |
| 21:58.46 | abraxa_ | ie. ./configure --prefix=/home/user/openmoko/sandbox |
| 21:59.18 | sunix | ok |
| 21:59.19 | abraxa_ | What do you mean - make it work? |
| 22:00.03 | sunix | don't know ... i have a short cut with my last image of openmoko .. and it doesn't do anything :) |
| 22:00.53 | abraxa_ | That's most likely because /root/playlists hasn't been created |
| 22:01.00 | abraxa_ | (that bug got fixed already) |
| 22:01.08 | sunix | mh |
| 22:02.00 | abraxa_ | If that's not the problem then running openmoko-mediaplayer from the console should give more hints |
| 22:02.18 | sunix | ok give me a try :) |
| 22:03.21 | sunix | ok i have a segfault |
| 22:04.17 | abraxa_ | What does it say on the console? |
| 22:05.34 | sunix | lots of warnings : "Useless empty GtkIconSource" |
| 22:05.34 | sunix | gtk-warning |
| 22:05.34 | sunix | and then |
| 22:05.34 | sunix | Segmentation fault |
| 22:06.06 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.165) |
| 22:06.19 | abraxa_ | Ah |
| 22:06.35 | abraxa_ | In that case, all OpenMoko apps should segfault because it's a bug in libmokoui2 |
| 22:06.52 | sunix | mh |
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| 22:07.04 | abraxa_ | Either up- or downgrading libmokoui2 helps as the error has been fixed in SVN |
| 22:08.15 | sunix | ok ... i've used mokomakefile to build everything |
| 22:08.52 | sunix | this morning |
| 22:09.54 | sunix | :) im in openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2 ... that sounds great :D |
| 22:11.53 | sunix | lots of source code reading down the track |
| 22:13.16 | abraxa_ | hehe |
| 22:13.33 | abraxa_ | Lemme know if you see anything I could improve, I'm always open to suggestions |
| 22:14.12 | sunix | :) are you a contributor or ... ? |
| 22:14.28 | abraxa_ | I wrote it ;3 |
| 22:14.34 | sunix | :D great |
| 22:15.02 | sunix | nice to meet you :) |
| 22:17.16 | abraxa_ | hehe same |
| 22:17.40 | sunix | are you using an ide to write software ? |
| 22:18.37 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:18.55 | abraxa_ | I'm using kdevelop, though that really is a personal choice :) |
| 22:20.27 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r162 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Remove patches from the clobber target, in case people have local patchsets. |
| 22:22.08 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: Bricked Neo |
| 22:22.09 | sunix | :) i know, it's been a while i have not written software in C language, i used to use Anjuta ... don't know how good it is compare to kdevelop, i'm going to have a look on the net |
| 22:25.20 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r163 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added a clean target. |
| 22:28.45 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-145-61.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 22:29.31 | abraxa_ | zecke: Did you ever run into customs with your Neo? |
| 22:30.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Mokostat]] [[FreeBSD]] [[Booting_from_SD]] [[User:Alessandro]] |
| 22:30.23 | zecke | abraxa_: what kind of customs? like when UPS is shipping? |
| 22:30.53 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r164 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Clean the tools and feed too. |
| 22:31.08 | abraxa_ | zecke: Well, I'm returning from the US on monday and wonder what'll happen if customs see the Neo and claim I bought it in the US (when I didn't) |
| 22:31.40 | zecke | abraxa_: what makes your neo more special than your notebook? |
| 22:31.52 | dkr | shinier? |
| 22:32.00 | abraxa_ | zecke: It's not obviously used :) |
| 22:32.12 | abraxa_ | lol rwhitby |
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| 22:35.17 | sunix | abraxa_: does the customs bother anybody that are traveling with their cell phones ? |
| 22:36.46 | abraxa_ | sunix: I wouldn't assume so; I'm just wondering because the last thing I need is customs demanding a fee of XX Euro for importing an electronic device, merely because I have no proof of purchase |
| 22:37.29 | rwhitby | hmm - rtyler in SF - that's close. |
| 22:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@71-210-184-183.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 22:37.49 | rwhitby | and quicksand too. |
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| 22:39.01 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: Getting drunk in SF might not be the best idea :) |
| 22:39.43 | sunix | abraxa_: i think it should be ok :) unless your have 50 neo in your bag :) |
| 22:40.03 | sunix | abraxa_: (or pockets) |
| 22:40.04 | abraxa_ | sunix: I hope so, too |
| 22:40.28 | rwhitby | abraxa_: I've been drunk in SF before. |
| 22:40.38 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: Story time? |
| 22:40.40 | sunix | anyone from France there ? |
| 22:40.44 | rwhitby | (worked for a year in Santa Clara. no stories) |
| 22:40.58 | abraxa_ | Ah boo =( |
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| 22:41.20 | sunix | Ah boo ? |
| 22:41.32 | abraxa_ | Yeah, I wanted to hear stories |
| 22:41.43 | sunix | :D |
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| 22:46.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: FM Radio |
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| 23:38.44 | abraxa_ | Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to fix OpenTTD's memory alignment issues... it can be quite slow on ARM as it is... |
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| 23:43.34 | cb22 | ouch |
| 23:43.45 | cb22 | i just noticed the new iphone firmware is out |
| 23:43.56 | cb22 | and my brother is buying 2x in the US |
| 23:44.06 | cb22 | cause i said i could unlock 'em |
| 23:44.11 | cb22 | he's gonna be pissed... |
| 23:44.39 | Mek | I guess it won't take long until the new firmware is unlocked? |
| 23:44.49 | SpeedEvil | No way of knowing. |
| 23:44.58 | SpeedEvil | There is no fundamental reason for there to be holes. |
| 23:45.19 | SpeedEvil | Done right - especially with minor hardware mods - it could be damn near uncrackable. |
| 23:45.45 | cb22 | i doubt they've done any hardware mods yet... |
| 23:45.49 | cb22 | but why |
| 23:45.56 | cb22 | apple are shooting themselves in the foot |
| 23:46.01 | cb22 | *curses at+t* |
| 23:46.44 | SpeedEvil | Apple are not. |
| 23:46.55 | SpeedEvil | Apple are getting fucking insane kickbacks from the networks. |
| 23:47.06 | cb22 | that's true |
| 23:47.11 | SpeedEvil | (at least assuming the UK is a similar model) |
| 23:47.17 | cb22 | but i was referring more to a 'people liking them' |
| 23:47.31 | SpeedEvil | Talking of 40% of revenue - not profits - from the contract going to apple |
| 23:47.31 | cb22 | infact, everything gets blamed on the network |
| 23:47.53 | SpeedEvil | That's an enormously powerful reason for apple to want to lock them. |
| 23:48.10 | cb22 | one reason i'm buying a neo... |
| 23:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-14-26-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:49.57 | Jason1 | Anyone going to Ohio Linux Fest? |
| 23:50.33 | SpeedEvil | Not unless it's very misleadingly named :) |
| 23:50.47 | Jason1 | hehe |
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| 23:57.20 | berkus | morning all |
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| 23:59.52 | notserpe | how does the unlock work exactly? |
