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| 00:47.00 | wonko__ | so how much harddisk space do you need for the delete when finished method of compiling openmoko? |
| 00:54.51 | roh | wonko__ with rm_work my openmoko workdir (checkouts, compiled binarys, toolchain etc) takes about 2G .. while compiling it would be wise to have a few free |
| 00:55.37 | roh | wonko__ i think if you have about 5-8gig free space before starting it should be no problem (assumed rm_work) .. when building without rm_work its somewhere between 12 and 20gig |
| 00:56.14 | Mek | am I the only one who thinks that is a bit ridiculous for building something that fits on a mobile phone?... |
| 00:56.58 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 00:57.12 | SpeedEvil | consider that it's an entire linux distribution pretty much. |
| 00:57.52 | roh | Mek heh... youve not seen what happens elsewhere... compared to my experience om is quite sane |
| 00:57.57 | Mek | well... but why should it need to compile lots of package it isn't going to install by default... |
| 00:58.04 | cesarb | It also builds gcc 2 times, glibc 3 times, pcmcia utils for a phone without pcmcia... |
| 00:58.44 | roh | cesarb thats partially clutter which comes from oe.. given somebody who cares about optimizing that will get away |
| 00:59.04 | roh | cesarb building gcc 2 times is neccessary for clean crosscompilers afaik |
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| 00:59.14 | roh | glibc dito.. atleast 2 times |
| 00:59.23 | roh | pcmcia is true.. we do not really need that |
| 00:59.48 | roh | but i'm not aware of big ressource-waste there atm |
| 00:59.52 | cesarb | roh: I've seen worse, but can't recall right now |
| 00:59.54 | Mek | for example, what is the 40MB of qtopia it was downloading in the default build? :) |
| 01:00.12 | roh | Mek because they do not package qmake2 as single tarball |
| 01:00.21 | roh | and we need that to build webkit |
| 01:00.22 | cesarb | Mek: IIRC either qtopia or qt is to get the (very small) qmake |
| 01:01.05 | roh | i share the sources dir here between multiple trees, and even an openwrt one.. so.. thats not really a problem (given broadband) |
| 01:03.39 | SpeedEvil | pcmcia - there are still some phones out there with CF are there not? |
| 01:03.45 | cesarb | roh: it would be fun if the neo came with a DVD with a fully primed OE (all fixed srcrevs, everything already in the sources directory) so you'd only have to type "make" (after copying to your hd) and not download anything ;-) |
| 01:03.51 | SpeedEvil | Or are they all too small/slow |
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| 01:14.41 | roh | cesarb would be.. but only useful in the third world/where you have no broadband/parts of the us *duck* |
| 01:15.01 | roh | cesarb currently we are far from release-quality and fixed enough versions at all |
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| 01:16.27 | cesarb | roh: that obviously could only work with the "final" ("frozen") release of the code in the phone to be sold to the public... |
| 01:16.49 | cesarb | roh: opposite to the current "here's the uboot" situation |
| 01:16.54 | SpeedEvil | hd-dvd... |
| 01:17.09 | roh | i don't think we should ever freeze anything. we should do a release and a head trunk when appropriate |
| 01:17.31 | roh | release as in 'stable' .. compare that to ubuntu or debian. |
| 01:18.10 | SpeedEvil | For some users - bugfixes only - might be nice. |
| 01:18.26 | roh | so you buy it and it has a stable release on it.. you update it via ipkg and the appmanager to get the latest bugfixes and securityfixes, or flash it to an 'unstable-' trunk.. your choise |
| 01:18.32 | SpeedEvil | Once it's in a sane state of course |
| 01:18.39 | roh | SpeedEvil bug and security |
| 01:18.44 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 01:19.16 | SpeedEvil | And the users I'm talking of would look at you like you grew a third head if you said ipkg. |
| 01:19.36 | SpeedEvil | Many - eventually - shouldn't care that it's got linux on. |
| 01:20.21 | roh | SpeedEvil we don't have these users in focus yet and propably will not for quite some time. this is geek, nerd and university project country as well as basis for other people with a developer in mind |
| 01:20.38 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 01:20.47 | SpeedEvil | it's going to be a fair while |
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| 01:55.58 | cheriff | Hello, If I wanted to re-partition my nand (so as to make more space available for 'kernel') is it just a matter of adjisting 'mtdparts' in uboot, and then resending kernel, splash and rootfs to their new locations? |
| 01:58.06 | roh | cheriff what do you want to put into the kernel which cannot work as module? |
| 02:02.45 | cheriff | roh: we (OpenKernal Labs) are using the phone as a board to demo our own kernel. Our final image has our kernel, some userspace tasks and 2x(vmlinux+minimal ramdisk) all wrapped into a single .elf |
| 02:03.17 | roh | *cough* |
| 02:03.29 | roh | flash it into the fs partition and change the bootconfig? |
| 02:03.43 | roh | thats much easier atleast |
| 02:04.00 | cheriff | we have a jffs2 partition there already, which it mounted post-boot |
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| 02:04.18 | cheriff | unless uboot could pull the kernel out of said jffs2 partition? |
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| 02:05.02 | roh | cheriff it can use ext from sdcard i think, but i dunno if it can do jffs2 from mtd |
| 02:06.17 | cheriff | okay. That was one option we are considering. Thanks :) |
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| 03:02.50 | cheriff | roh: it seems i can cat together our kernel and jffs2 images and write the resultant file to the rootfs partition. nand read.e will correctly load and boot it, and the jffs2 fs scans past the kernel and happily finds the real fs to mount once it comes up |
| 03:03.02 | cheriff | thanks for the ideas :) |
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| 03:07.21 | roh | cheriff jikes... interresting it works.. |
| 03:07.38 | roh | hopefully jffs never tries to use the blocks where the kernel lives |
| 03:09.32 | cheriff | it doesn't, it whinges quite noisily, but then mounts ok. (I have disabled the write routines in the driver, so we're safe on that front) |
| 03:10.17 | cheriff | next up i'll put in something to lie about the partition layout so it'll skip the kernel completely |
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| 03:35.57 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 04:15.27 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[PyFeedRead]] |
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| 04:16.41 | mbuf | does anyone have a sample GTK+ .bb file that runs from moko/local/packages/? |
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| 04:48.48 | |R | http://www.xpcgear.com/bta3210.html <- does anybody know if this bluetooth dongle works with linux? |
| 04:49.25 | |R | (I'm really unfamiliar with anything bluetooth on linux and i'm trying to prepare :P) |
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| 04:52.41 | CM | So far I've tried 3 usb bluetooth adapters and they've all worked right out of the box |
| 04:52.58 | CM | But I don't know what chip is in that one |
| 04:53.17 | |R | ok, i was wondering if there was a bluetooth USB class or something... |
| 04:53.47 | CM | Class 2 is the normal one, 10m range |
| 04:54.29 | |R | Class 2 has to do with RF output power / law right? I meant USB Class like the Video class which unifies all video device using those specs under a single driver :) |
| 04:54.50 | CM | Ah, sure :) |
| 04:55.03 | |R | :) |
| 04:55.05 | CM | It's 06:54 here |
| 04:55.17 | |R | oh haha, waiting for the day to start then ;) |
| 04:55.30 | |R | europe or africa? :) |
| 04:55.37 | CM | Sweden |
| 04:55.48 | CM | Just about to go to work :) |
| 04:56.06 | |R | hehe, don't! they'll make you... dare i say... work! |
| 04:56.15 | |R | haha (yeah 00:53 here, i should go to bed instead :P) |
| 04:56.25 | CM | For sure ;) |
| 04:56.45 | |R | hehe, have a good day :) |
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| 05:53.26 | alphabeat | /tet |
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| 06:49.03 | gcb77 | I'm still not having any luck booting from SD :( |
| 06:49.16 | gcb77 | I followed the directions on the page |
| 06:49.32 | gcb77 | It flashes some text, and resets |
| 06:50.02 | gcb77 | any ideas on what I can try? |
| 06:51.08 | emdete | my doesnt' even boot at all... after laying around 2 days (switched off of course) it's battery is more than empty... :( |
| 06:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko derFrank (n=derFrank@Pa4a5.p.pppool.de) |
| 06:53.50 | gcb77 | emdete: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger#from_deep_discharged_battery |
| 06:54.12 | gcb77 | you probably already have it, but just in case |
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| 06:54.57 | emdete | gcb77: thanks... prob is that i don't underdstand why its empty at all.... it was switched off. |
| 06:56.14 | gcb77 | emdete: heh, there's been a lot of discussion here on that... some of the components are connected directly to the battery, and continue drawing power even when off |
| 06:56.15 | fgau | emdete: you must removed the battery, then it's switched off |
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| 06:56.32 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 06:56.32 | Any_Key|work | morning all |
| 06:56.34 | emdete | fgau: :D |
| 06:56.38 | bedboi | is there any dbus guy here? |
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| 06:56.47 | emdete | what's an dbug guy? |
| 06:56.52 | bedboi | dbus :) |
| 06:56.53 | emdete | oups... |
| 06:57.02 | emdete | s/bug/bus/ |
| 06:57.29 | bedboi | i would need to know if dbus is sending a signal when someone is trying to own a name |
| 06:57.43 | emdete | bedboi: don't think so |
| 07:00.53 | gcb77 | any ideas on how I can troubleshoot booting from card? |
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| 07:02.56 | fgau | gcb77: with the factory delivered uboot version, i have no probs |
| 07:04.17 | gcb77 | fgau: hmm, I updated my uBoot when 2007.2 came out |
| 07:06.37 | ScaredyCat | gcb77: is that correct? |
| 07:07.02 | fgau | gcb77: other reported the same issue |
| 07:07.38 | ScaredyCat | I curently have qtopia on my neo, when I shut it down it powers off, had been off for a couple of days before I powered it on this morning |
| 07:08.03 | emdete | ScaredyCat: and it startet? battery not empty? |
| 07:08.10 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 07:08.14 | ScaredyCat | booted fine |
| 07:08.23 | gcb77 | The other strange thing is when I ran: mmcinit and ext2ls mmc 0 the phone reset itself |
| 07:08.25 | emdete | puh, i had mine off also and battery was dead |
| 07:09.10 | fgau | gcb77: lokk here: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=799 |
| 07:09.20 | fgau | look^^ |
| 07:09.36 | emdete | ScaredyCat: what does wtopia different when powering down? |
| 07:09.57 | ScaredyCat | emdete: note 'using qtopia' - maybe it takes power from the devices properly? |
| 07:10.29 | ScaredyCat | echo >0 blah |
| 07:10.32 | ScaredyCat | iyswim |
| 07:10.33 | gcb77 | fgau: thank you, has it been resolved or still onging? |
| 07:10.43 | gcb77 | I'm thinking of flashing the latest uBoot |
| 07:10.56 | emdete | ScaredyCat: no prob i would do all the scripts for that - is there a llist what echo 0 i had to do? |
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| 07:12.15 | ScaredyCat | for a in gsm bluetooth display vibration ; do echo "look at wiki : Manually using $a"; done |
| 07:12.38 | ScaredyCat | the thing is... |
| 07:12.54 | emdete | so gsm bluetooth display vibration are the devices to look at? what about gps? |
| 07:13.13 | ScaredyCat | is that ever powered up ? |
| 07:13.15 | ScaredyCat | atm |
| 07:13.28 | emdete | ScaredyCat: who knows what the default is after power on |
| 07:13.49 | ScaredyCat | for a in gsm bluetooth display vibration gps ; do echo "look at wiki : Manually using $a"; done |
| 07:14.19 | ScaredyCat | you'd hope stuff got powered u when asked to and not before |
| 07:14.39 | emdete | are there more devices? i2c? |
| 07:14.56 | ScaredyCat | yeah |
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| 07:15.54 | emdete | power-managed? can i switch off power to any device in the neo using /sys/...? someone said some are connected directly to battery some minutes ago.. |
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| 07:16.12 | ScaredyCat | directly to the battery? |
| 07:16.18 | ScaredyCat | why? |
| 07:16.51 | emdete | gcb77 said "connected directly to the battery, and continue drawing power" - isn't that true? |
| 07:18.37 | ScaredyCat | I dunno, do we have shematics? |
| 07:18.41 | ScaredyCat | schematics |
| 07:18.58 | emdete | at the moment i can't look at it, but i could to `echo 0` to all files named 'power' in /sys? i saw some called power_on, as i remember |
| 07:19.08 | emdete | schematics? i can't read those :/ |
| 07:19.46 | ScaredyCat | the suggestion that my neo with qtopia lasted longer than when running om2007.2 would point to something.... |
| 07:21.14 | gcb77 | emdete: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=770 |
| 07:24.32 | emdete | gcb77: thnx. but what they say is that components are not switched off at shutdown. qtopia seems to shutdown the most important part: the gsm with AT@POFF |
| 07:25.35 | emdete | what is the difference between AT@POFF and echo 0 > /sys....gsm....power? |
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| 07:29.43 | emdete | oups... my neo disapeared. :( |
| 07:32.15 | roh | emdete AT@POFF followed by echo 0 > /sys....gsm....power switches it off. |
| 07:32.38 | roh | echo 0 > /sys....gsm....power ;; echo 1 > /sys....gsm....power resets it |
| 07:33.05 | roh | from off to on is just echo 1 > /sys....gsm....power |
| 07:33.49 | Any_Key|work | if somebody have GTA01 up & connected now, can you guys run ts_test for a while? |
| 07:35.06 | Any_Key|work | I get strange behavior in qemu & want to know if it hardware specific or bug in touchscreen driver |
| 07:38.44 | roh | what behaviour? |
| 07:38.53 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:39.25 | Any_Key|work | roh, random reads, out of screen positioning |
| 07:40.10 | gcb77 | DOH!!! I just flashed u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+svnnow-r14_a89cbbd27a60e6740772000fd0688ffba1c2576a_0_2938.bin |
| 07:40.40 | gcb77 | Is the power button supposed to still turn on the NEO? |
| 07:41.58 | roh | of course |
| 07:42.14 | emdete | wow, a `find /sys/ -name power|wc` gives 81 - are there 81 devices to switch off? |
| 07:42.43 | gcb77 | roh: I take it its not a good sign that the phone won't turn on at all after flashing uBoot |
| 07:42.55 | roh | not really. |
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| 07:46.32 | gcb77 | oh well, I guess I've contributed all I can for today, I'm out. Thanks for the help fgau |
| 07:47.03 | fgau | gcb77: np :) |
| 07:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko neocoretech (n=neocoret@gw.transporeon-hq.com) |
| 07:50.17 | roh | hm.. build through... nice |
| 07:50.21 | roh | http://people.openmoko.org/roh/untested/ |
| 07:58.21 | bedboi | roh: what's new? |
| 07:58.51 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3_ (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 08:02.50 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 08:08.52 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@TheWide.ubyt.sdjls.uniba.sk) |
| 08:09.29 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-248-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-66-122-77-174.dsl.snlo01.pacbell.net) |
| 08:12.13 | *** join/#openmoko khaije1 (n=khaije1@unaffiliated/khaije1) |
| 08:14.38 | ljp | ScaredyCat: the real challenge is if I can get the pm working better... |
| 08:15.44 | ljp | but I have to wait till a v4 device returns to my desk |
| 08:16.31 | khaije1 | any news on commercial release date? |
| 08:16.56 | rwhitby | Dec earliest |
| 08:17.53 | khaije1 | rwhitby: do you know what the release requirements are? are they documented? |
| 08:18.14 | rwhitby | no. I expect working hardware is near the top. |
| 08:18.27 | *** join/#openmoko FuzzyCat (n=ScaredyC@81.187.78.218) |
| 08:19.04 | rwhitby | I've been saying (with no inside information), Nov for GTA02 P0, Jan for P1, who knows for general market release (cause that depends on the software) |
| 08:19.34 | rwhitby | last we've heard (from mickey|portugal at a conference) is Dec, with no information on which phase that is. |
| 08:19.39 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 08:20.07 | khaije1 | are you saying gta02 needs another year... do i understand you correctly? |
| 08:20.28 | Mek | would it be worthwhile for a new hacker to buy a GTA01 instead of waiting for the GTA02? |
| 08:20.56 | ljp | that might depend on your requirements :) |
| 08:21.01 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 08:21.41 | khaije1 | these phones are so needed, the available alternatives are simply horrible (in u.s.) |
| 08:22.30 | khaije1 | nevertheless it's good to know the company 'gets it' so i'm not waiting in vain |
| 08:23.16 | emdete | khaije1: with 'phone' do you mean the hardware only or hardware+software working as everyday phone? |
| 08:24.37 | *** join/#openmoko zilux (n=user@bdy93-1-82-67-223-79.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:25.02 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 08:25.03 | khaije1 | emdete: for me a phone to hack would be nice, but what i really _need_ is a phone to use every day |
| 08:25.15 | gambler | what is the preferred method of getting an openmoko emulator going on the PC? I see references to Xoo,Xephr,Qemu etc. |
| 08:25.53 | Mek | qemu is the only emulator of those three... (and should produce the results closest to the real thing) |
| 08:25.57 | Mek | (I think) |
| 08:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (n=5512ea02@207.250.49.24) |
| 08:28.21 | emdete | khaije1: ic is afraid giving a developer-only phone away but i would really like to have a gta02 soon for deveopment. my everydayphone is a different one anyway... |
| 08:28.28 | emdete | s/ic/fic/ |
| 08:29.15 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet_ (n=larsg@ti500710a080-4999.bb.online.no) |
| 08:31.21 | khaije1 | emdete: i just think the potential is an order of magnitude better with a neo than anything out now |
| 08:36.44 | *** join/#openmoko jonibo (n=jonas@193.12.106.2) |
| 08:36.54 | abraxa_ | emdete: Considering gta02s don't even boot without attached debug board I don't know how useful that could be |
| 08:37.23 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A56127.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:37.35 | emdete | abraxa_: shure, given it boots and acc. graphics works in x i am fine ;) |
| 08:38.00 | abraxa_ | The driver hasn't been written yet either ;x |
| 08:38.15 | emdete | abraxa_: yes, i know :/ |
| 08:38.16 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@122-57-160-251.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 08:38.23 | Any_Key|work | roh, I've run ts_harvest and have all X(Y)_measured out of screen size, or wrong. |
| 08:38.28 | khaije1 | rwhitby: do i understand your estimate to correctly be nov 08 for the gta02? |
| 08:39.32 | rwhitby | no, I said nov 07 for P0 (select developers), jan 08 for P1 (sale to developers, software not ready) and no estimate for P2 (general market release) |
| 08:39.46 | rwhitby | those are not official dates, just my guesses. |
| 08:40.52 | Any_Key|work | unfortunately I can't upload the ts_harvest.out (can't get qemu connected via ssh) |
| 08:43.39 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 08:44.37 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 08:50.28 | Ghiottone|work | goodday all |
| 08:51.19 | ljp | g'day |
| 08:51.25 | zecke | hi |
| 08:51.32 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-178.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 08:51.52 | ljp | hi |
| 08:52.05 | roh | hm.. official dates... well.. when we're lucky the remaining gta01 arrive in the us end of the week |
| 08:52.23 | roh | there will be a mail about that soon |
| 08:53.27 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9997.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 08:54.45 | roh | CM well.. we have one that segfaults (still) |
| 08:55.04 | CM | Broadcom sucks.. :/ |
| 08:55.16 | emdete | how far is development of a open driver? |
| 08:55.30 | rwhitby | roh: is there going to be another batch of GTA01's made after this batch due to arrive end of the week? |
| 08:55.40 | roh | CM well.. they are much more cooperative than gl before |
| 08:55.44 | rwhitby | (i.e. has supply met demand yet?) |
| 08:56.22 | roh | rwhitby yes. propably.. but i cannot give you specifics yet (dunno) |
| 08:56.51 | roh | rwhitby i think we need to... you guys just don't stop ordering ;) |
| 08:57.01 | Mek | so if I would order a GTA01 right now, is there any indication how long it would tkat for it to leave .us? |
| 08:57.13 | emdete | so how many gta01 are sold right now? |
| 09:00.57 | roh | Mek could be 2 weeks or so when you order 'now' or some weeks when you wait for too long. |
| 09:01.09 | roh | emdete sorry.. cannot tell you absolute numbers |
| 09:01.15 | Mek | okay... |
| 09:02.35 | emdete | roh: sad... would be nice to hear. even how many fic plans to sell... |
| 09:02.50 | roh | Mek but i can only guess.. its statistics im looking at, not 100% certain values |
| 09:03.28 | Mek | :) |
| 09:03.33 | roh | emdete well.. the whole response was much hotter and bigger than we expected. thats also why we basically build every device we can |
| 09:04.26 | roh | lead times can be long when you don't know how many devices you need first |
| 09:06.38 | *** join/#openmoko wildfire (n=wildfire@203.7.227.146) |
| 09:07.37 | emdete | roh: i really, really hope that fic keeps up with the neo. |
| 09:07.56 | roh | emdete how do you mean keep up? |
| 09:08.14 | emdete | roh: my english sucks, sorry. i mean they do it further... |
| 09:08.19 | roh | we will not just drop it like palm the foleo if you mean that |
| 09:08.29 | emdete | roh: for how long? |
| 09:09.42 | roh | emdete well.. thats not decided yet. if there is real demand after gta01 is out we could do more gta01 as long as the parts are available. |
| 09:09.52 | emdete | i think it costs alot all the developers, don't think those several thousands of neos pay much |
| 09:10.56 | emdete | and: ambitious phones get cheaper all the time. what if a OE dev platform is ported to the iphone... that costs 50$ less than a neo 2 |
| 09:10.59 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:11.15 | roh | well.. its a investment info the future for fic, so i don't worry there ;) |
| 09:12.06 | emdete | i don't think you sell one GTA02 for more that the price of the smallest iphone in massmarket |
| 09:12.23 | roh | emdete even if it would run on a iphone that would have no gps and no removable battery or upgradeable storage |
| 09:13.23 | emdete | roh: shure, but massmarket seems not to care - and iphone's case is so much nicer all the people say that see the neo |
| 09:13.26 | roh | and it would be 100% reverse-engineering which means no specs, no docs and really buggy drivers for a long time.. not really competition |
| 09:13.58 | emdete | roh: i hope so - don't misunderstand me, i want fic to have success with their model |
| 09:16.28 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 09:18.27 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br) |
| 09:18.29 | *** part/#openmoko cheriff (n=davidm@221.199.209.30) |
| 09:19.36 | roh | emdete well.. so far we do not worry about that |
| 09:20.04 | emdete | roh: i do a little because i like the project alot ;) |
| 09:20.35 | roh | well.. were just at the beginning |
| 09:20.39 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cjb@zorilla.apana.org.au) |
| 09:26.20 | abraxa_ | roh: Are you familiar with the plans regarding the UI concept? |
| 09:26.33 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:38.03 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-178.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 09:41.53 | abraxa_ | WOOOT |
| 09:42.03 | abraxa_ | Finally made gstreamer and PulseAudio behave on the Neo :D |
| 09:42.10 | aloril | roh: this safe uboot image that fixes need for nand erase rootfs command?: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/images/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+git8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6+svn20070819-r0.bin |
| 09:42.26 | emdete | strange, libgsm-tool ask for pin twice. looking in the log i see it switches off the modem with 'AT+CFUN=0' after the first pinentry: http://rafb.net/p/1dT1d719.html - someone also seen that? |
| 09:42.45 | aloril | at least I remember at least 2 persons updating to it safely and also I remember some people accidentally doing nand erase without argument |
| 09:42.53 | zecke | abraxa_: congrats, how did you resolve it? |
| 09:43.07 | aloril | so... it sounds like updating to that uboot might be more safe than doing nand erase something ;-) |
| 09:43.13 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 09:43.39 | SpeedEvil | You can - IIRC use dd to wipe the partition. |
| 09:43.41 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f049175175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:43.46 | CM | aloril: I'm using that uboot |
| 09:44.00 | aloril | CM: and it fixes need for nand erase? |
| 09:44.00 | CM | But i have a broken boot_env |
| 09:44.07 | aloril | hmm.. |
| 09:44.08 | CM | aloril: yes, so it seems |
| 09:44.31 | CM | I mean, flashing a 32mb qtopia over a 45mb openmoko rootfs worked fine |
| 09:44.38 | abraxa_ | zecke: pulsesink's buffer and latency settings are optimized for low latency, so by increasing them CPU usage drops from 30->5% (PulseAudio) and 45%->30% (gstreamer) |
| 09:45.03 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 09:45.24 | aloril | CM: is proken boot_env result of updating to uboot or was it broken before? |
| 09:46.04 | aloril | (you are referring to this I assume: "2007-08-28 10:32:32 <CM> hhf423_w: But it's broken. Every time I flash, my uboot_env (mtdblock1) is overwritten with parts of the kernel") |
| 09:50.18 | *** join/#openmoko duzbin (n=duzbin@41-208-48-1.mtn.co.za) |
| 09:51.52 | aloril | anybody else updated uboot? any problems? |
| 09:52.24 | *** part/#openmoko duzbin (n=duzbin@41-208-48-1.mtn.co.za) |
| 09:59.28 | XorA | aloril: yes, and yes |
| 10:00.44 | roh | abraxa_ depends on whats your question |
| 10:01.24 | roh | aloril dunno, i have a tested one i built myself on http://people.openmoko.org/roh/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+git20070909+svnr2943-r0.bin |
| 10:01.36 | abraxa_ | roh: I would like to know how the termination of applications will be handled in the future - being able to close them only through openmoko-today is... hmm, counter-intuitive in my opinion |
| 10:02.02 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D832F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:02.40 | roh | abraxa_ they are closed via short press on powerbutton currently |
| 10:02.52 | *** join/#openmoko der_io (n=der@p54A0E055.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:03.24 | abraxa_ | roh: Ohh, I did not know that. Okay, thanks :) |
| 10:09.07 | blindcoder | moin |
| 10:15.36 | aloril | XorA: what kind of problems with uboot update? |
| 10:15.47 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] |
| 10:16.51 | aloril | CM: boot_env problem however didn't brick your GTA01B_v04 I assume? |
| 10:17.31 | XorA | aloril: I updated to one from buildhost and bricked bv4 |
| 10:17.44 | XorA | aloril: needed to use JTAG to recover |
| 10:18.51 | aloril | XorA: was it from here or was it earlier/later?: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/images/ |
| 10:19.48 | XorA | aloril: earlier I think |
| 10:20.43 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko doesn't list any known working v4 uboot as far as I can see |
| 10:21.25 | XorA | aloril: got debug board? |
| 10:21.41 | aloril | nope.. thats why I would like to be sure |
| 10:21.54 | XorA | aloril: Id wait then :-) |
| 10:22.01 | aloril | I know this is another option: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Nand_erase |
| 10:22.17 | aloril | but I have heard people accidentally bricking neo with that command |
| 10:22.43 | ixs | well, I'm swure there's someone with a debug board in your area. |
| 10:22.44 | XorA | aloril: yeah if you arease u-boot, no way to fix without debug board |
| 10:23.03 | aloril | == nand erase without arguments |
| 10:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 10:24.31 | ixs | XorA: ahhh. nope. IIRC uboot should be all loaded into memory. so you can actually erase the nand and then flash a new uboot into the device before rebooting. |
| 10:24.46 | ixs | that _should_ work if I remember the bootloader semantics correctly. |
| 10:25.10 | aloril | ixs: didn't know that, but: yes, if you notice error before reboot ;-) |
| 10:25.53 | ixs | aloril: of course. In general though you are much safer fiddling with the bootloader with a debug board as your safety net. |
| 10:26.27 | roh | aloril in about 20 minutes or so i can test some binary on my device and then tell you if it works on my bv4 and a md5sum |
| 10:26.37 | aloril | yeah... just trying to decide which one is more likely: problem with uboot update or accidental too wide nand erase |
| 10:26.45 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 10:27.19 | aloril | roh: OK, and I'll update http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko page then |
| 10:27.34 | roh | aloril i did not have any problems with updates since bv2 where the build was ok, so if it works on one moko, it works on all |
| 10:27.41 | viq | if it matters anything the procedure described at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU doesn't work for me, fails at the openmoko/flash.sh step (it worked before that august update) |
| 10:28.00 | aloril | hhf423 has tested http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/images/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+git8993e54b6f397973794f3d6f47d3b3c0c98dd4f6+svn20070819-r0.bin |
| 10:28.00 | aloril | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:28.13 | guaqua | has anyone looked into vala |
| 10:28.35 | guaqua | http://live.gnome.org/Vala this one...? |
| 10:28.50 | aloril | also Ghiottone reports it being good, but .. still is it still ok after kernel/image flashing? (ie.. is there boot_env problem with it) |
| 10:31.02 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:31.05 | abraxa_ | viq: Removing the "nand createbbt" line from flash.sh should resolve that issue |
| 10:33.05 | viq | testing |
| 10:33.58 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@host27-79-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:34.36 | viq | abraxa_: nope |
| 10:34.57 | abraxa_ | viq: Aww =( |
| 10:35.22 | *** join/#openmoko King_InuYasha (n=King@adsl-240-6-101.jan.bellsouth.net) |
| 10:35.43 | King_InuYasha | why is it that the future consumer version will lose the stereo speakers? |
| 10:36.00 | Mek | to make room for the wifi I believe.. |
| 10:36.16 | King_InuYasha | so does that mean there isnt support for stereo headphones? |
| 10:36.31 | viq | Do stereo speakers in such a small container really make a difference? |
| 10:36.35 | Mek | the headphones still be stereo |
| 10:36.40 | viq | King_InuYasha: stereo headphones, mono speaker. |
| 10:36.47 | King_InuYasha | good... |
| 10:36.54 | *** join/#openmoko winkler (n=chatzill@132.176.23.154) |
| 10:37.28 | King_InuYasha | there seems to be a discrepency in when the Consumer Version of the OpenMoko phone will come out? |
| 10:37.33 | aloril | btw.. I guess later produced GTA01B_v04 have never uboot without that "needs nand erase" problem? |
| 10:37.42 | King_InuYasha | and i found a typo on the website |
| 10:38.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03abraxa * r3034 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/src/ (main.c persistent.c persistent.h playback.c): |
| 10:38.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Force playbin to use a specific sink again - pulsesink this time |
| 10:38.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Make gstreamer/PulseAudio's CPU usage drop to sane values by forcing bigger buffers and allowing higher latency |
| 10:38.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Remove trailing slash from default file browser path for the SD card |
| 10:38.13 | aloril | King_InuYasha: you can just fix typo |
| 10:38.25 | King_InuYasha | not on a static web page |
| 10:38.34 | aloril | King_InuYasha: about when consumer version comes out: *nobody* knows |
| 10:38.48 | aloril | King_InuYasha: every date you see is a guess |
| 10:38.53 | King_InuYasha | aww darn |
| 10:39.06 | King_InuYasha | i wanted to get the phone in October like it said on the static page |
| 10:39.19 | King_InuYasha | but the wiki says December... |
| 10:39.34 | aloril | October does sound unlikely |
| 10:39.42 | King_InuYasha | why is that? |
| 10:40.16 | Mek | and even if it would be released in october, it would be far from a usefull phone, as the software is far from complete... |
| 10:40.17 | aloril | P0 phase hasn't happened for GTA02 for example |
| 10:40.35 | King_InuYasha | P0 phase? |
| 10:40.37 | aloril | no distribution system for mass market and what mek said |
| 10:40.53 | aloril | free phones to selected developers to test hardware further |
| 10:40.57 | King_InuYasha | Mek, what is left for the software? |
| 10:41.58 | viq | stability, usability... just minor stuff :P |
| 10:42.10 | Mek | functionality? :P |
| 10:42.22 | viq | Yes, that too ;) |
| 10:42.24 | King_InuYasha | >.< |
| 10:48.46 | aloril | some other stuff: they need to set up mass production line for GTA02, produce them, ship them to outside China |
| 10:49.06 | aloril | each of these... week or few? |
| 10:49.40 | aloril | so even if they decided: lets mass produce them it sounds unlikely for you get one in hand at October |
| 10:49.43 | viq | aloril: are they already certain what will be inside the final one and have exact plans/maps/whatever for it? |
| 10:50.20 | aloril | viq: they have 2 different configurations and latest info is that they are testing |
| 10:50.25 | cb22 | aloril, well, there is a vid up on youtube of gta02's being produced |
| 10:50.45 | cb22 | those are probably the p0 ones |
| 10:50.48 | King_InuYasha | well, i would like to be able to order one in October |
| 10:50.49 | aloril | cb22: at Taiwan or at China? |
| 10:50.58 | King_InuYasha | and maybe hopefully have it by December |
| 10:51.13 | King_InuYasha | so that in January, my new budget year starts and I can replace my crappy laptop |
| 10:51.26 | cb22 | dunno, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpt6R4ZNl1w |
| 10:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@2.47.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my) |
| 10:52.17 | King_InuYasha | that factory may not be running Windows |
| 10:52.29 | King_InuYasha | though it would be sad if it did |
| 10:52.37 | cb22 | true |
| 10:53.07 | King_InuYasha | my reason for thinking it may not is that Win95-style Window Managers do exist for Linux |
| 10:53.18 | King_InuYasha | and a lot of them are low-memory consumers |
| 10:53.40 | aloril | there was a lot time between Taiwan P1 GTA01B_v04 phones for P0 devs and P1 phones sold for devs (>3 months) |
| 10:53.53 | aloril | don't expect this time to be that big delay |
| 10:53.55 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-32-146-127.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 10:54.52 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:55.39 | aloril | cb22: that looks like P0 batch being produced (just guess) |
| 10:55.46 | roh | well.. i now have 2 tested and working uboot on gta01bv04.. |
| 10:56.54 | aloril | roh: cool, which uboot's? (and have you tested flashing kernel and rootfs after uboot flashing?) |
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| 10:59.01 | roh | aloril on people.openmoko.org/roh/ are 2 uboots, in md5sums are the checksums |
| 10:59.19 | roh | both work fine here |
| 10:59.32 | roh | one is from the 10th, one is from 'just now' |
| 11:01.11 | cb22 | roh, any inside knowledge on that vid :) |
| 11:01.41 | roh | cb22 of the smd robot? eh.. thats gta02bv2 afaik.. got mone seconds ago (finally) |
| 11:02.43 | *** join/#openmoko burton__ (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-15-128.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:02.58 | cb22 | nice, is that the one with all the features, but still the 2410? |
| 11:03.03 | roh | next time i need to hit the dhl-guy with something sharp and heavy |
| 11:03.56 | cb22 | railway spike? |
| 11:05.23 | roh | hmm.. would do... they forced me getting counted money due to vat |
| 11:06.19 | aloril | huh, now card is visible! I saw some crc errors and repeated boots didn't work, but switching to 512MB card (which didn't get visible) and back to 2GB: now 2GB is visible |
| 11:06.40 | mjr | sounds like a contact problem |
| 11:07.04 | aloril | I thought there was some crc errors in flash that somehow prevented card working and thus thought about reflashing rootfs/kernel ;-) |
| 11:07.55 | aloril | thought it stopped working without opening case, but I guess its kind of 'close' |
| 11:07.59 | ScaredyCat | ljp: well it works somewhat at the mo :) |
| 11:08.14 | aloril | anyway, I guess I want to update uboot anyway..., but less hurry now |
| 11:10.52 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484FAD4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:11.23 | King_InuYasha | the Dude Where's My Car? wishlist item sounds quite nice actually |
| 11:13.07 | cb22 | King_InuYasha, link? |
| 11:14.25 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2220-ipbf2608marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 11:17.56 | aloril | what if new bad blocks happen? will reflashing automatically fix it or is something else needed? |
| 11:18.10 | aloril | or is there then need to manually mark it from uboot? |
| 11:19.17 | roh | aloril well you should be able to update your uboot now without problems. |
| 11:19.52 | King_InuYasha | c22, its on the software wishlist |
| 11:20.04 | King_InuYasha | errm cb22, its on the software wishlist |
| 11:20.19 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@cpe-071-077-055-135.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 11:20.37 | King_InuYasha | on the wiki |
| 11:21.12 | aloril | roh: ok, I'll do that tomorrow and then if all seems ok, update wiki (I have moko9_r8 uboot from May 19 installed) |
| 11:21.36 | *** join/#openmoko cb22_ (n=cb22@dsl-245-155-209.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 11:21.58 | cb22_ | King_InuYasha, does sound cool |
| 11:22.11 | cb22_ | although not too sure how it would be implimented using one neo only |
| 11:22.53 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@56.84-48-193.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:24.05 | King_InuYasha | well, if a car has GPS and reports its location, it is possible for a Neo to grab this location and track it i suppose |
| 11:24.49 | aloril | roh: I guess uboot update is not useful for anybody with GTA01B_v04 more recent than X (X being some serial number or day when it was shipped) |
| 11:24.51 | cb22_ | true, but how would it report its location? |
| 11:25.04 | King_InuYasha | i dunno |
| 11:25.08 | King_InuYasha | im not an expert on GPS |
| 11:25.12 | King_InuYasha | i dont even own a GPS |
| 11:25.41 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 11:25.50 | roh | aloril depends.. this one has fixed acm console and modem passthrough as well as no nand erase issues i'm aware of |
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| 11:26.27 | ewon | morning |
| 11:26.32 | aloril | ah, ok, no nand erase is older fix, acm console and modem passtrough is new thing |
| 11:27.26 | aloril | nand erase though is "problem that makes stuff not work" + you could accidentally brick neo with it |
| 11:28.41 | aloril | is there any known case of bricking neo with updating to "known good working uboot"? |
| 11:29.14 | aloril | (versus bricking by updating to wrong version and bricking by nand erase without arguments) |
| 11:29.45 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 11:30.00 | aloril | I mean.. which one would be more recommended: update uboot or use nand erase with right arguments? (asking because I wonder what wiki should recommend) |
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| 11:33.24 | Shoragan | aloril, uboot protects itself agains being overwritten by a version for different model |
| 11:34.18 | aloril | yeah, I think this holds for any uboot May 19 or more recent |
| 11:35.00 | aloril | however, not true for older uboots -> quite many v4 to v3 and v3 to v4 uboot writes in past |
| 11:35.27 | Shoragan | yes |
| 11:35.42 | Shoragan | but if you are careful it should be no proble,m |
| 11:39.32 | aloril | roh: thanks for testing |
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| 12:16.50 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]] |
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| 12:26.32 | florian | hi all |
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| 12:30.51 | emdete | hi florian |
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| 13:18.09 | CM | Listen around 52:20 http://www.lugradio.org/episodes/84 |
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| 13:29.19 | jpcass | cm: interesting... |
| 13:31.06 | CM | Well.. Guess we have to prove Jono wrong ;) |
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| 13:36.26 | sudharsh | ooh..ooh..what does it day...what does it day... |
| 13:37.25 | mwester | Greetings and salutations |
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| 13:41.13 | jpcass | stefan_schmidt: are you there? |
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| 13:57.45 | sudharsh | ok i tried booting openmoko from sd, but am getting a bad partition and bad magic number stuff...i couldnt see the error fully since i am brought to the main boot screen rather soon |
| 13:59.32 | sudharsh | ...anyone getting the same stuff |
| 13:59.49 | ewon | no, we're all sitting on our hands waiting for v2 to come out. |
| 14:00.06 | emdete | ewon: :) |
| 14:00.09 | sudharsh | bah |
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| 14:00.28 | CM | sudharsh: I always get the bad magic number problem |
| 14:00.45 | CM | But booting using Factory Reset works |
| 14:01.09 | CM | But that's on a regular boot, not from sd |
| 14:01.38 | sudharsh | CM, ah...wait i have a hunch i did something stupid..i forgot to change CONFIG_MMC_S3C=m to y |
| 14:01.43 | sudharsh | someone spank me |
| 14:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-38-177.42-151.net24.it) |
| 14:04.00 | CM | sudharsh: Ask ScaredyCat, he seems to like doing that. :P |
| 14:04.07 | *** part/#openmoko [TK]D-Fender (n=joe@MTRLPQ02-1177745839.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 14:04.15 | sudharsh | spanking part? |
| 14:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@rn083002.morris.umn.edu) |
| 14:04.44 | ewon | oook then |
| 14:04.55 | CM | Hehe |
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| 14:12.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3035 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Fix header style and add customised button styling for openmoko-dates |
| 14:12.34 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db327da.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 14:15.31 | MetroDelt | is the date known yet for the final version of the Neo? |
| 14:15.31 | aloril | MetroDelt: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:15.48 | CM | MetroDelt: You mean the public release? |
| 14:15.59 | ewon | coutner |
| 14:16.00 | MetroDelt | CM: yep |
| 14:16.02 | ewon | counter |
| 14:16.03 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1811;252) |
| 14:16.24 | CM | aloril: Might be time to get a GTA02 counter going? :) |
| 14:16.34 | CM | MetroDelt: We guess in half a year or so.. |
| 14:16.37 | aloril | hehe, yeah I should update that page |
| 14:16.53 | aloril | [[Neo1973]] page has some estimates though |
| 14:16.53 | CM | Or I do at least, but I'm just a channel lurker ;) |
| 14:16.58 | SpeedEvil | HXD8 |
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| 14:19.08 | MetroDelt | CM: is the developerversion kinda usable? |
| 14:19.21 | CM | Not really |
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| 14:19.56 | MetroDelt | So it isnt replacing your cells yet? |
| 14:20.03 | CM | No |
| 14:20.21 | MetroDelt | Okay, too bad |
| 14:20.22 | ewon | heh, so the oct release date for gta02 has slipped a bit then? |
| 14:20.22 | CM | The battery time is not even half a day, and I can't call or send/recieve sms |
| 14:20.25 | MetroDelt | keep up the good work! |
| 14:20.50 | CM | ewon: Hopefully P0 for GTA02 will be November |
| 14:20.59 | CM | Think mickey|portugal said something like that |
| 14:22.06 | CM | But so far, no official statements. Only rumours and estimates |
| 14:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:24.39 | ewon | CM: thanks |
| 14:25.41 | ewon | has there been any further news on the 3d accelerator in gta02? |
| 14:25.56 | ewon | (sorry, I've been flat out and haven't been on channel / reading the lists) |
| 14:27.04 | SpeedEvil | somewhat |
| 14:27.09 | SpeedEvil | I don't know how current you are |
| 14:27.20 | SpeedEvil | basically, all docs will be translated and released by FIC |
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| 14:30.02 | Lynet | Is it an issue of someone with an NDA cleaning up the docs, or is it just translation? |
| 14:30.45 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: They never said *all* docs. |
| 14:31.09 | Lynet | Hmm.. Seems like webkit-gtk compile is stuck in an endless loop, anyone else seeing that? |
| 14:31.13 | rwhitby | they said that FIC would look at the vendor docs under NDA, write some new docs, have those new docs approved for release by the vendor, then release the new docs. |
| 14:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-143-191.37-151.net24.it) |
| 14:31.47 | rwhitby | (I guess you might have meant "all" in the "any" sense of the word ..) |
| 14:32.22 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: pretty much. And yes, and I was meaning 'translation' in the 'rewrite so it's not covered under the NDA' |
| 14:32.41 | rwhitby | nod |
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| 14:33.14 | CM | Lynet: It takes a long time to compile, over an hour on my comp |
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| 14:35.40 | Lynet | CM: I'm coming up on 10+ hours here. I have the build env running in a VM, so I don't expect super fast but I'm kinda starting to get worried. |
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| 14:42.06 | CM | Lynet: Then something must be wrong |
| 14:42.19 | CM | I build it a few days ago with no problem |
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| 14:58.51 | emdete | Lynet: i just builded current webkit some hours ago - when did you start? |
| 15:00.20 | webjames | hey, any idea why the build instructions for qemu don't work anymore? |
| 15:01.13 | ewon | this wouldn't happen if we were a Microsoft project. |
| 15:01.21 | ewon | I'll get my coat. |
| 15:03.39 | webjames | anyone using qemu anymore? |
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| 15:06.20 | CM | webjames: Some people are, but not at all as many as before |
| 15:07.28 | webjames | it used to work, not i'm just getting nothing |
| 15:08.22 | webjames | i have tried the moko make file and the manual setup |
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| 15:16.47 | sannes | mwester: please do tell :) |
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| 15:29.03 | mwester | Ok, as with most things, there are multiple problems, perhaps the biggest being that the gsmd as currently written has a very weak algorithm for syncing up command and responses from the GSM modem. |
| 15:30.21 | mwester | What prevents it from doing so almost each and every boot is that at bootup, the tty is set to the normal settings -- which echos every received character back to the terminal. |
| 15:31.06 | *** join/#openmoko hapchap (n=hapchap@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 15:31.13 | mwester | So in the interval from power-up to gsmd actually reading data, the modem has been "talking with itself" for several seconds, with several thousand characters exchanged. |
| 15:31.45 | mwester | So even the "flush" operation done by gsmd seldom actually clears out the backlog of trash coming from the GSM modem. |
| 15:32.17 | cjb_ie | is it possible to just issue a hard reset to the modem? |
| 15:32.39 | mwester | Note with the P1's that were purchased, those had the reset line removed |
| 15:32.56 | mwester | The easiest solution is to simply turn off echo before powering up the modem. |
| 15:33.02 | mwester | It syncs up nicely, then. |
| 15:33.06 | cjb_ie | cool. |
| 15:33.38 | mwester | You can even remove the horrible "dances with sleeps" in the gsmd startup file, and it still works nicely. |
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| 15:48.13 | CM | mwester: Great detective work! :D |
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| 15:50.45 | Elrond | ~seen zdanek |
| 15:50.48 | apt | zdanek <n=b@ams122.internetdsl.tpnet.pl> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 2d 17h 49m 11s ago, saying: 'cu'. |
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| 16:17.30 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Online_Shopping]] [[User:Xqus]] [[P1_Owners]] |
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| 16:21.50 | PBeck | hi |
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| 16:28.08 | webjames | Hi |
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| 16:36.27 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 16:37.36 | Inluxc | Hi |
| 16:37.48 | Inluxc | does anyone have de openmoko cellphone???? |
| 16:38.35 | ckuethe | no, we're all just here because we think they're pretty |
| 16:38.43 | ewon | heh |
| 16:39.04 | ckuethe | spontaneous self-organization from chaos |
| 16:39.19 | webjames | Inluxc: some people have received a developer version, but the retail version is out at Christmas |
| 16:39.43 | bedboi | ckuethe: self disorganization |
| 16:39.53 | Fradeve | Inluxc: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 16:39.53 | bedboi | i don't want to be called organized |
| 16:40.23 | Inluxc | Thanks Fradeve |
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| 16:41.30 | ewon | mwester: yes. |
| 16:43.16 | cjb_ie | mwester: between X and Z |
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| 17:03.48 | bedboi | hmmm |
| 17:04.00 | bedboi | guys i'm porting some applications i wrote |
| 17:04.18 | bedboi | one of them needs a library (provided by another .bb i wrote) |
| 17:04.31 | bedboi | i put this in the dependencies of course, it gets built |
| 17:04.32 | bedboi | but |
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| 17:05.06 | Philippe | bedboi: but ? |
| 17:05.20 | bedboi | for some reasons the application can't find one of the libraries |
| 17:05.34 | ewon | compile time or runtime? |
| 17:05.38 | bedboi | compile time |
| 17:07.06 | Philippe | bedboi: wrong linker flags? |
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| 17:09.18 | bedboi | maybe |
| 17:09.32 | bedboi | yep it's because i'm stupid |
| 17:09.43 | bedboi | i didn't put it in the configure.in |
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| 17:10.57 | Philippe | bedboi: :-) |
| 17:11.13 | bedboi | pebkac |
| 17:11.17 | bedboi | as always |
| 17:11.23 | bedboi | C is perfect |
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| 17:42.01 | bedboi | just for curiosity is there any news about the shipment date? |
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| 17:45.26 | bedboi | the libraries should get installed in tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/ |
| 17:45.28 | bedboi | isn't it? |
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| 17:57.54 | buz | bedboi: december ;) |
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| 17:58.39 | buz | and i really hope this time batches will be a bigger |
| 17:59.41 | anrp | shipment of gta02 or 01? |
| 18:01.18 | CM | gta01 should be shipping now already |
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| 18:02.10 | bedboi | no no, the one batch gta01 |
| 18:02.24 | bedboi | CM: are they shipping, or they are supposed to |
| 18:02.25 | bedboi | ? |
| 18:04.03 | CM | They're supposed to be, but I haven't heard from anyone getting the new batch |
| 18:05.06 | bedboi | NOTE: Multiple libraries (libpientityclient.so.0, libpilow.so.0, libpiutils.so.0, libarpiclient.so.0, libarpi.so.0, libpientity.so.0, libpilowclient.so.0) found and LEAD_SONAME not defined |
| 18:05.08 | bedboi | what is this? |
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| 18:06.24 | anrp | a warning! |
| 18:06.46 | bedboi | anrp: ehehe, i know. |
| 18:06.57 | bedboi | the problem is that the application cant find that libpiutils |
| 18:07.07 | bedboi | so that's why it's failing |
| 18:08.05 | bedboi | i mean in that ipk i have the libraries and some sample applications |
| 18:08.14 | bedboi | and they work |
| 18:08.54 | bedboi | the problem is if i write an application that needs those libraries, for some reason at compile time it doesn't find them |
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| 18:16.50 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Contacts/2007.2]] |
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| 18:21.29 | Ghiottone | hey all |
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| 18:34.39 | kristian-m | hi Ghiottone |
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| 18:37.53 | Ghiottone | hey kristian-m. what's up? |
| 18:38.10 | kristian-m | learning for a test.. :-/ |
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| 18:39.13 | kristian-m | Ghiottone how are you? thanks for the bootup graph btw |
| 18:39.33 | Ghiottone | tests should not take people away from moko development :P |
| 18:40.03 | Ghiottone | I'm fine thanks. Tonight I hope to have a bit of time to dedicate to the moko. |
| 18:40.05 | kristian-m | Ghiottone tell that to the prof. ;-) |
| 18:40.22 | kristian-m | Ghiottone great i envy you |
| 18:40.26 | Ghiottone | which bootup graph? the one I put on my user page? |
| 18:40.40 | Ghiottone | chi stato e'? |
| 18:40.49 | Ghiottone | ops wrong window :P |
| 18:41.30 | kristian-m | Ghiottone yes, i showed it to the author of cinit, maybe we can port that to oe one day |
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| 18:43.14 | Ghiottone | great! |
| 18:43.30 | Ghiottone | that bootup showed strange results however. |
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| 18:44.10 | Ghiottone | I'm working on a partial replacement of bootchart in C in the hope to lighten the measurement overhead |
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| 18:45.19 | bedboi | hmmm there's something wrong in the compiling.... |
| 18:45.43 | bedboi | all the libraries are referenced with absolute paths |
| 18:46.21 | bedboi | but i don't know why my libraries don't get installed in /hdext/moko/build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/ |
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| 18:47.30 | bedboi | in the install/ dir it's ok, i have all i need |
| 18:48.00 | Ghiottone | kristian-m, in which way is cinit different from upstart? |
| 18:48.01 | thomasg | what current uboot-version is able to boot from sd? |
| 18:49.38 | Ghiottone | I have 19 aug version and I'm not able |
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| 18:59.47 | kristian-m | Ghiottone i don't know upsatart in detail but cinit is really lightweight - using a directory per process defining start and shutdown scripts and a deamon flag. the boot sequence can be parallelized... - really neat and fast as hell ;-) |
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| 19:05.06 | buz | cinit sounds somewhat djbesque |
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| 19:05.28 | buz | needs more files though ;( |
| 19:05.31 | buz | ;) |
| 19:08.28 | kristian-m | buz actually the only really needed file can be a link to the program itself - but it's still the dir ;-) |
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| 19:10.46 | telmich | hello |
| 19:10.56 | kristian-m | hi telmich |
| 19:11.23 | kristian-m | telmich we were just talking 'bout cinit |
| 19:11.25 | telmich | buz: it's a bit djb-alike, as I think it's a good way to implement configurations |
| 19:11.32 | kristian-m | telmich is the author |
| 19:11.41 | buz | i always hated daemontools |
| 19:11.49 | telmich | buz: well, they are a bit unecessary |
| 19:12.10 | telmich | and djb's live philosophy regarding to foss sucks a bit, imho |
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| 19:12.27 | kristian-m | telmich Ghiottone asked "in which way is cinit different from upstart?" |
| 19:13.06 | telmich | Ghiottone: I don't know upstart good, but upstart is event driven, whilst cinit is service based |
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| 19:14.05 | telmich | the aim of cinit is really getting everything out of the hardware, without overhead, so after booting is finished events are not handled by cinit |
| 19:14.07 | buz | upstart is part hal / dbus as well |
| 19:14.58 | buz | but mostly, upstart was a NIH thing with canonical |
| 19:15.09 | telmich | NIH? |
| 19:15.23 | anrp | not invented here |
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| 19:18.50 | buz | which is interesting, canonical usually doesnt suffer much of NIH |
| 19:19.12 | buz | (heck the whole distro was invented elsewhere ;) |
| 19:20.14 | telmich | well, it's pimped up debian |
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| 19:28.01 | Ghiottone | back |
| 19:28.09 | Ghiottone | telmich, I see |
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| 19:28.56 | Ghiottone | telmich, so it basically start all the possible services as soon as possible? |
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| 19:29.23 | Ghiottone | I fear that it will not be good for the neo |
| 19:29.29 | telmich | Ghiottone: yes and it works with dependencies |
| 19:29.48 | Ghiottone | because I think that the bottleneck and not the disk |
| 19:30.09 | telmich | Ghiottone: well, normally it's the disk, why do you think it's not in that case? |
| 19:30.30 | Ghiottone | telmich, because the Neo boots from a nand memory. |
| 19:30.55 | Ghiottone | telmich, in the bootchart I got it seemed that I/O usage was always zero |
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| 19:31.23 | Ghiottone | telmich, I'm not sure that this result is correct but it's somewhat reasonable |
| 19:31.42 | kristian-m | Ghiottone well, but still there are blocking operations which could speed up boot if parallelized |
| 19:32.03 | telmich | Ghiottone: well, what do you think is the bottleneck |
| 19:32.40 | Ghiottone | kristian-m, I'm not that sure. the processor context switch has its cost. I don't know what it is with neo's processor but I fear it to be pretty high |
| 19:32.49 | Ghiottone | telmich, I think it is the processor. |
| 19:33.23 | Ghiottone | but to be sure I'm trying to optimize bootchart (which is a bash script) with some C program |
| 19:33.23 | telmich | Ghiottone: what processor is it? |
| 19:33.40 | Ghiottone | just to get rid of a lot of fork and process execution |
| 19:33.50 | Ghiottone | telmich, give me one sec |
| 19:34.01 | kristian-m | telmich http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware |
| 19:34.30 | Ghiottone | oh yes. that. :) |
| 19:35.24 | Ghiottone | telmich, what does cinit require to run? |
| 19:35.45 | telmich | ok, don't know much about that one. but if you are sure that the CS are really heavier than heaving an idle processor, than it may make sense not to startup in parallel |
| 19:35.52 | telmich | Ghiottone: libc and shm |
| 19:36.02 | kristian-m | i think portmap is the current bottleneck |
| 19:36.44 | Ghiottone | portmap is used for RPC programs (such as nfs).. why is that there? |
| 19:36.48 | cb22 | why is portmap started btw? |
| 19:36.56 | Ghiottone | telmich, shm? sysV shared memory? |
| 19:37.29 | Ghiottone | telmich, just kernel support or external programs ? |
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| 19:37.59 | telmich | Ghiottone: yes, shared memory as in message queues |
| 19:38.08 | telmich | Ghiottone: no external programs |
| 19:38.17 | telmich | cb22: for nfs I guess |
| 19:39.11 | Ghiottone | telmich, I'm looking at latest sources... what is that file without a name? (probably some undisplayable char) |
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| 19:39.48 | Ghiottone | this is a non existent file :P |
| 19:39.57 | Ghiottone | eheheh |
| 19:40.03 | Ghiottone | telmich, nice easter egg :) |
| 19:40.04 | telmich | Ghiottone: it's a 'hidden' file to attract intelligent developers... ;-) |
| 19:40.40 | Ghiottone | you could have it start with a dot in next version :) |
| 19:40.54 | telmich | hehe |
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| 19:42.43 | Ghiottone | telmich, you seem to like files and directory a lot, don't you? :) |
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| 19:42.57 | Ghiottone | telmich, I've never seen such a particular configuration system |
| 19:42.57 | telmich | yep, did you have a look at cconfig? |
| 19:44.09 | telmich | hmm, new gitweb.cgi looks good: http://unix.schottelius.org/cgi-bin/gitweb4.cgi?p=cLinux/cinit.git;a=summary |
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| 19:45.20 | Ghiottone | telmich, does makefile support a $ROOT variable? |
| 19:45.53 | telmich | $DESTDIR |
| 19:46.06 | Ghiottone | great |
| 19:46.07 | telmich | if you like I can add $ROOT, I don't care |
| 19:47.11 | unique | hi @ all.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the GTA02v3 won't have USB 2.0? |
| 19:47.11 | unique | I mean the mass market version of the phone |
| 19:47.57 | telmich | yeah, getpid() support works now |
| 19:48.01 | mjr | unique, it won't |
| 19:48.12 | Ghiottone | telmich, I think DESTDIR will do |
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| 19:48.34 | ruimoreira | hi |
| 19:48.35 | ruimoreira | :) |
| 19:49.02 | unique | mjr: well I hoped it would have, cause USB 2.0 should be standard today |
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| 19:49.36 | Ghiottone | telmich, are the steps: adjust config, make, make install? |
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| 19:50.00 | telmich | Ghiottone: yep; take care about conf/, as I don't use autoconf |
| 19:50.09 | mjr | unique, it isn't in many embedded devices, that's the reality, and the reason is cost, space, and power |
| 19:50.57 | Ghiottone | telmich, I'll just try with the defaults |
| 19:51.03 | mjr | sure, it'd be nice, like many other things it won't have yet either |
| 19:51.21 | unique | mjr: well I guess I could live with it ;) well how fast will wifi be? |
| 19:52.16 | guaqua | g standard, unique |
| 19:52.31 | mjr | it's 802.11b/g so presumably 54 Mbit/s (though 27 Mbit per direction) |
| 19:52.58 | mjr | yeah, means that you probably want to use that for bulk data transfer |
| 19:53.12 | mjr | given a choice |
| 19:53.15 | unique | mjr: yes...that is fast enough for data-transfer. |
| 19:53.31 | Ghiottone | telmich, what do you use to test boot time reduction results? bootchart? |
| 19:53.33 | Writchie | unique: why would you need USB 2.0? |
| 19:53.49 | telmich | Ghiottone: a clock |
| 19:54.00 | unique | Writchie: copying files from computer to the phone for example |
| 19:54.09 | mjr | Writchie, to push new video clips onto the phone quicker ;) |
| 19:54.10 | telmich | Ghiottone: did not try bootchart yet, because I tried to focus on finishing 0.3 |
| 19:54.35 | Writchie | unique: you mean you want "high-speed USB 2.0" - not just USB 2.0 |
| 19:54.45 | mjr | a valid nitpick from Writchie |
| 19:55.08 | unique | i guess even normal USB 2.0 is faster than USB 1.1 .. or am I wrong ?? |
| 19:55.18 | Writchie | not -really, device adverstised as USB 2.0 (like the N800) are misleading when they support only full speed |
| 19:56.23 | happycube | yeah :P |
| 19:56.25 | mjr | as to enabling new functionality, high-speed usb 2.0 would allow the use of external display controllers and giving presentations from the neo or somesuch. Fringe stuff, yeah, but there would be _some_ use cases. |
| 19:56.38 | mjr | N800 is full speed 2.0? Hehe. |
| 19:56.56 | Writchie | full speed is 12 mbps high speed is 480mbps |
| 19:57.42 | Writchie | 2.0 != highspeed although all high speed are necessarily USB 2.0 |
| 19:57.48 | mjr | yeah I know |
| 19:58.10 | telmich | this always confused be in the beginning when reading usb-messages |
| 20:01.00 | Ghiottone | telmich, where are the files that cinit installs? |
| 20:01.08 | mjr | anyway, back on topic; what was the topic. Ah well :] |
| 20:01.23 | Writchie | mjr: that is good new if it does |
| 20:01.26 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@129.24.27.25) |
| 20:01.33 | telmich | Ghiottone: in src/ |
| 20:02.14 | mwester | Anyone know if the libmokoui problem has been fixed, i.e. will the latest builds actually work today? |
| 20:02.22 | Ghiottone | no, I need to know where it install them to |
| 20:02.37 | guaqua | i'm yet to find where to plug usb in n800 :) |
| 20:02.50 | telmich | Ghiottone: sbin/ |
| 20:03.09 | telmich | Ghiottone: minimal case is to install cinit to /sbin/cinit |
| 20:04.17 | Ghiottone | I've never used git but just for playing a bit with it in its early times |
| 20:05.07 | telmich | it made big progress, in early times I used cogito, but now git is pretty mature |
| 20:06.27 | Ghiottone | is still there some frontend? |
| 20:06.38 | guaqua | n770 might be better device - all in all, due to the plastic cover, but with more power in the n800... |
| 20:06.55 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B10B70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:08.52 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 20:08.56 | telmich | Ghiottone: no |
| 20:09.38 | Ghiottone | ? |
| 20:09.44 | Ghiottone | is it only cmdline now? |
| 20:10.04 | telmich | ahh, you mean like a gui? it's there in git-1.5 |
| 20:10.09 | Ghiottone | I enjoyed the graph of how the sources were branched and merged |
| 20:13.34 | *** join/#openmoko dkr (n=dkr@alita-alt.wirespring.net) |
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| 20:14.36 | guaqua | ERROR: '/home/gua/moko/openembedded/packages/gcc/gcc-cross-initial_4.1.2.bb' failed |
| 20:14.46 | guaqua | someone else experiencing the same thing right now? |
| 20:15.53 | guaqua | /home/gua/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/gcc-cross-initial-4.1.2-r8/gcc-4.1.2/gcc/real.h:78: error: size of array 'test_real_width' is negative |
| 20:16.11 | guaqua | this, i believe is the correct error |
| 20:16.16 | guaqua | or more specific one |
| 20:17.10 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 20:21.47 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
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| 20:28.38 | *** part/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B10B70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:32.23 | Ghiottone | telmich, it stops with make[2]: *** No rule to make target `w'. Stop. |
| 20:32.33 | Ghiottone | telmich, am I doing something wrong? |
| 20:36.31 | telmich | oeh |
| 20:36.35 | telmich | target w? |
| 20:36.54 | telmich | Ghiottone: which os, which make? |
| 20:37.10 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B10B70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:38.55 | Ghiottone | mmm |
| 20:39.02 | Ghiottone | my os is linux |
| 20:39.04 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 20:39.04 | Ghiottone | gnu make |
| 20:39.15 | Ghiottone | but I'm using the OE cross compiler chain |
| 20:39.36 | Ghiottone | what could it be? |
| 20:40.29 | guaqua | hard to tell, that description is very generic |
| 20:40.50 | anrp | yeah |
| 20:41.08 | anrp | post at least 3 screenfuls of text to a pastebin, ending with the error line |
| 20:41.11 | anrp | or so D: |
| 20:41.11 | guaqua | it's sort of like trying to tell why your computer doesn't show a desktop from you telling me, it doesn't come up |
| 20:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko potterr_ (n=potterr@209.10.131.254) |
| 20:43.26 | Ghiottone | telmich, where is this target w defined? |
| 20:43.27 | telmich | Ghiottone: there should not be any w: target, but try do change to src/ and execute make in there |
| 20:45.36 | Ghiottone | I'll post the errors to pastebin |
| 20:45.53 | telmich | that's good |
| 20:48.04 | Ghiottone | http://pastebin.com/d7e9fd206 |
| 20:48.10 | Ghiottone | that's what I get in install |
| 20:49.06 | Ghiottone | and this is for the compile http://pastebin.com/d2a1effb7 |
| 20:49.46 | telmich | ok, the build is fine |
| 20:49.58 | *** part/#openmoko br3n_ (n=bren@79-65-182-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:51.28 | telmich | can you give the output of make -d install to pastebin? |
| 20:52.11 | Ghiottone | what's -d ? |
| 20:52.16 | bedboi | damn |
| 20:52.18 | telmich | debug |
| 20:52.33 | Ghiottone | oh. I have to change the recipe. give me a sec |
| 20:52.45 | bedboi | why it's not finding the damn library |
| 20:52.56 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07CF8B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:53.08 | bedboi | it should be installed in the standard library path |
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| 20:56.09 | mwester | ldconfig |
| 20:56.26 | Ghiottone | how do I copy and paste that huge amount of debug info?!?!? |
| 20:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 20:57.02 | telmich | Ghiottone: you can also mail it to me: nico-cinit // at // schottelius.org |
| 20:58.21 | Ghiottone | that's better :) |
| 20:58.34 | bedboi | mwester: it is compile time |
| 20:58.59 | bedboi | there's something wrong either in my toolchain or in the autotools stuff |
| 21:00.46 | Ghiottone | telmich, on its way |
| 21:01.18 | telmich | ok, will take some minutes, as my mailserver verifies each mail before it accepts it |
| 21:03.10 | telmich | ah, already there |
| 21:04.35 | telmich | Ghiottone: could you do a 'grep -r wd *' in the cinit main tree? |
| 21:06.09 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A56127.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:06.31 | telmich | it's very strange |
| 21:07.58 | Ghiottone | it will take a bit as I had to reconfigure my Openmoko tree |
| 21:08.24 | Ghiottone | so that it does not clean the working dir |
| 21:12.55 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-152-229.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 21:14.03 | Elrond | ~seen zdanek |
| 21:14.06 | apt | zdanek <n=b@ams122.internetdsl.tpnet.pl> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 2d 23h 12m 29s ago, saying: 'cu'. |
| 21:14.07 | *** join/#openmoko cb22_ (n=cb22@dsl-245-147-140.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 21:14.57 | telmich | xorg sucks - it just hungup my keyboard again |
| 21:15.58 | bedboi | telmich: tell me something that does not suck |
| 21:16.05 | bedboi | everything sucks |
| 21:16.20 | bedboi | it can suck slightly less, but it will still definitely suck |
| 21:16.25 | telmich | bedboi: ccollect does not suck |
| 21:17.00 | bedboi | C does not suck. but that's the only exception |
| 21:17.55 | bedboi | telmich: that ccollect seems not to suck that much |
| 21:18.16 | Elrond | What's "ccollect"? |
| 21:18.25 | bedboi | sh is suck-less, wmii too |
| 21:18.31 | bedboi | wmii definitely is suck-less |
| 21:18.55 | bedboi | btw, talking seriously. i'm still having problems |
| 21:19.26 | bedboi | i don't know why i get this unresolved libraries compile-time |
| 21:19.40 | telmich | bedboi: unix.schottelius.org/ccollect/ |
| 21:19.47 | bedboi | yep |
| 21:19.49 | telmich | bedboi: wmii is pretty cool |
| 21:19.54 | bedboi | telmich: it is |
| 21:20.12 | telmich | although I miss windows behind windows like in ion3 |
| 21:20.50 | bedboi | http://pastebin.com/m38de24f |
| 21:20.53 | bedboi | telmich: i don't |
| 21:20.59 | bedboi | i like the way it handles windows |
| 21:21.04 | Ghiottone | telmich, http://pastebin.com/d48d76ae0 |
| 21:21.40 | telmich | hehe, all alessandros are italian |
| 21:21.56 | bedboi | the libraries should be here -L/hdext/moko/build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib but for some reasons the are not |
| 21:22.00 | bedboi | why i don't know |
| 21:23.03 | telmich | Ghiottone: that's pretty strange |
| 21:24.54 | *** part/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B10B70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:24.58 | telmich | Ghiottone: can you come to #cLinux? perhaps we can clearify the problem in there => other devs in there, too |
| 21:26.59 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 21:27.17 | Ghiottone | telmich, ok |
| 21:31.54 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno- (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 21:33.16 | bedboi | nobody has hints? |
| 21:33.28 | bedboi | even if manually copy the .so's in the lib path |
| 21:33.38 | bedboi | the compilation fails |
| 21:42.07 | Ghiottone | bedboi, are the DEPENDS in the .bb file correct? |
| 21:44.58 | bedboi | Ghiottone: it should be |
| 21:45.06 | bedboi | lemme check |
| 21:45.36 | bedboi | the dependency (libraries), they got compiled without any problem |
| 21:45.49 | bedboi | but for some reason they are not installed in the staging/ |
| 21:45.58 | *** join/#openmoko speerschleuder (n=speersch@p57B27FF4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 21:46.28 | speerschleuder | hello |
| 21:46.44 | bedboi | Ghiottone: DEPENDS = "libglade openmoko-libs pinl" |
| 21:46.48 | bedboi | yep its ok. |
| 21:46.58 | bedboi | pinl is the package that contains those missing libraries |
| 21:47.36 | bedboi | in fact it gets built, but then i don't know why the do_compile of this new application fails when linking (it can't find some of those libraries) |
| 21:49.04 | Ghiottone | it' probably the stage part of the pinl package that is broken |
| 21:49.20 | Ghiottone | did you try rebuilding pinl and then trying again? |
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| 21:50.43 | *** part/#openmoko pirulo (n=andres_p@65.19.28.123) |
| 21:51.37 | bedboi | yep |
| 21:51.46 | bedboi | bitbake pinl -c clean |
| 21:52.12 | speerschleuder | hello pH5 |
| 21:52.45 | rwhitby | morning |
| 21:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D832F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:53.25 | Psi_ | ive not looked into BT on the neo yet, is it possible to use BT to get the neo onto a network? |
| 21:53.30 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:53.40 | SpeedEvil | look at [[Manually Using Bluetooth]] on the wiki |
| 21:53.45 | Psi_ | ok, thanks |
| 21:53.58 | SpeedEvil | I haven't done this though. |
| 21:54.06 | Psi_ | anyone know what the range is like? |
| 21:54.10 | rwhitby | Psi_: I have - it's an easy pand -c .... |
| 21:54.50 | rwhitby | (assuming you have a pand access point set up, which is easy to do with a consumer router or NAS that supports openwrt or slugos or angstrom. |
| 21:57.37 | SpeedEvil | and has USB |
| 21:57.37 | SpeedEvil | Psi_: reportedly sucky. |
| 21:57.37 | SpeedEvil | Well under 10m |
| 21:57.43 | Psi_ | oh, ok |
| 21:57.45 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 21:57.56 | mwester | There are different class devices with different ranges. |
| 21:58.11 | mwester | The one in the Neo is the 10m version. |
| 21:58.57 | Psi_ | probably not worth me buying a BT card then, id need 50m for what i was thinking about doing |
| 21:59.16 | SpeedEvil | You could always have an array of 25 :) |
| 21:59.23 | *** join/#openmoko Unleashed (n=alex@89.129.166.147) |
| 21:59.39 | SpeedEvil | For point-point, you could use a dish. |
| 21:59.42 | Psi_ | er, wifi |
| 21:59.43 | mwester | Careful placement of NSLU2's running SlugOS, and you could reach 50M. |
| 22:00.43 | Psi_ | na, i wanted to use it to update a moving sign while walking around an event that's in a hall about 50m square |
| 22:00.49 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:01.15 | Psi_ | doesnt matter, it would have been cool but wasnt necessary |
| 22:01.43 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@e179097056.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:02.04 | Ghiottone | bedboi, that does only the clean. try with bitbake -f -c rebuild pinl |
| 22:02.21 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.93.6) |
| 22:02.57 | bedboi | ok |
| 22:03.15 | bedboi | i'm quite a newbie so i'm sure that there's something i'm doing wrong |
| 22:05.27 | mwester | rwhitby: can you add kexec-tools to the feed? |
| 22:06.54 | rwhitby | mwester: you can do that - just add it to task-openmoko-feed.bb - mickey|portugal is happy for anyone to add to that file. |
| 22:07.08 | mwester | Ah - ok, will do. |
| 22:07.13 | bedboi | Ghiottone: now the libraries should be installed in staging isn't it? |
| 22:07.34 | bedboi | Ghiottone: btw this is not my case |
| 22:07.39 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 22:09.34 | *** join/#openmoko drath (i=vmaster@p5B07E844.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:09.36 | bedboi | Ghiottone: do you have any clue? |
| 22:11.06 | Ghiottone | bedboi, yeah they should be installed in staging. I would thing that the recipe is not correct. |
| 22:11.12 | Ghiottone | s/thing/think/ |
| 22:11.23 | bedboi | Ghiottone: i inherited from autotools |
| 22:11.31 | bedboi | so it should issue make install |
| 22:12.17 | bedboi | Ghiottone: is there something that i need to do to get my libraries in the staging dir? |
| 22:12.25 | bedboi | i guess autotools should od |
| 22:12.25 | bedboi | do |
| 22:13.14 | bedboi | Ghiottone: http://pastebin.com/mede56df |
| 22:13.14 | Ghiottone | bedboi, sorry I don't know |
| 22:13.24 | bedboi | it's just basic |
| 22:14.14 | Ghiottone | make install works for that package? |
| 22:17.01 | *** join/#openmoko drath__ (i=vmaster@p5B07E054.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:18.11 | Ghiottone | bedboi, maybe the --prefix is not passed correctly. what about the configure logs? |
| 22:18.28 | bedboi | let's see |
| 22:18.50 | bedboi | btw prefix should be set by bitbake in some magic way |
| 22:19.35 | bedboi | --prefix=/usr |
| 22:19.50 | Ghiottone | usr? |
| 22:20.01 | Ghiottone | you aren't running it as root, are you? |
| 22:20.05 | bedboi | no |
| 22:20.06 | bedboi | :) |
| 22:20.09 | bedboi | never in my life |
| 22:20.26 | bedboi | man i'm not that crazy |
| 22:20.34 | bedboi | but see |
| 22:20.42 | bedboi | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:20.44 | bedboi | this is ok |
| 22:21.31 | bedboi | /bin/sh ../../../arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-libtool --mode=install /hdext/moko/build/tmp/stagi |
| 22:21.31 | bedboi | ng/i686-linux/bin/install -c 'libpiutils.la' '/hdext/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux |
| 22:21.31 | bedboi | -gnueabi/pinl-0.1-r0/image/usr/lib/libpiutils.la' |
| 22:21.31 | bedboi | arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-libtool: install: warning: relinking `libpiutils.la' |
| 22:21.34 | Ghiottone | maybe the problem is that the automatic rules cannot find which files to add to the package |
| 22:21.45 | *** join/#openmoko SuN (i=unices@ip5652ade4.speed.planet.nl) |
| 22:21.49 | Ghiottone | have a look at what the final package contains |
| 22:21.56 | bedboi | the final package is ok |
| 22:22.01 | bedboi | it's working perfectly |
| 22:22.33 | Ghiottone | mmmm |
| 22:22.36 | bedboi | do_stage does not contain anything |
| 22:22.42 | Ghiottone | is there a -dev package_ |
| 22:22.44 | Ghiottone | ? |
| 22:22.45 | bedboi | yep |
| 22:22.59 | bedboi | ok that's the problem |
| 22:23.02 | bedboi | the staging |
| 22:23.18 | bedboi | i'm sure i have to specify in the receipe |
| 22:24.17 | bedboi | should i "oe_libinstall -so something ${STAGING_LIBDIR}/" |
| 22:24.17 | bedboi | ? |
| 22:25.05 | bedboi | yep it seems that i need it |
| 22:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko thseiler (n=Thomas@173.229.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 22:26.01 | Kero | yay, what was the screenshot command ? |
| 22:26.44 | *** join/#openmoko Eighth_Doctor (n=King@c-75-65-160-138.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 22:27.17 | Ghiottone | bedboi, I remember that mickeyl had me try something like that when I had problems with a package |
| 22:27.26 | Ghiottone | bedboi, maybe it is the right way |
| 22:28.14 | bedboi | now i'm trying to find the docs :) |
| 22:28.46 | *** join/#openmoko thseiler (n=Thomas@173.229.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 22:28.58 | Hopscotch | thseiler: hb9jnx? |
| 22:31.35 | thseiler | Hopscotch: no, sorry. |
| 22:32.08 | Hopscotch | thseiler: hehe - but you know him? |
| 22:32.10 | thseiler | Hopscotch: sailer vs seiler... |
| 22:32.15 | Hopscotch | right |
| 22:32.28 | Ghiottone | bedboi, http://www.openembedded.info/user-manual/directories_staging.html |
| 22:33.43 | *** join/#openmoko clee (n=clee@kde/clee) |
| 22:35.10 | bedboi | now it works |
| 22:35.21 | bedboi | at least it install 'em in the stagin |
| 22:35.33 | thseiler | Hopscotch: not personally, I was reading once a paper with his name on it, then I got curious and googled... ;-) |
| 22:35.48 | Hopscotch | aaaah :) |
| 22:36.03 | Hopscotch | he's kind of the digital radio god :) |
| 22:37.58 | Kero | (power button + screenshot) => http://chmeee.dyndns.org/om/ruby-glade.png |
| 22:38.21 | thseiler | Hopscotch: hehe. I always wanted to get my amateur radio licence so I could do packet radio. Problem was: At that time, the EE courses of EPFL were not sufficient to skip the exam, but we are sliding off topic here... ;-) |
| 22:38.26 | Kero | simple app built w/ glade-3 on PC, running entirely on OpenMoko + Ruby + ruby/gtk/glade bindings |
| 22:39.20 | Kero | the work of tonight involved compiling those bindings. |
| 22:39.44 | thseiler | Kero: Cool! |
| 22:42.02 | Kero | raises ruby footprint from about 2MB to 2.5 MB :) |
| 22:42.54 | Kero | adding revolution should be easy enough (as ipk, not as gem) |
| 22:43.07 | Aria | Kero: awesome! |
| 22:43.47 | Kero | will take a few days to smooth issues and publish packages... |
| 22:44.01 | Kero | ...mostly since I won't have time until Fri or Sun |
| 22:44.53 | thseiler | Kero: 0.5 Mb are a small price to pay for the possibilities ;-) |
| 22:45.09 | Kero | but yeah, I'm happy that the only problem was compiling. Didn't have to edit a single line of the binding, nor of the glade file or ruby app. |
| 22:45.37 | Kero | decent result for the evening :D |
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| 22:57.23 | speerschleuder | bye |
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| 23:12.44 | *** part/#openmoko thseiler (n=Thomas@173.229.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 23:13.33 | abraxa_ | mwester: I'm surprised the libmokoui bug didn't get fixed. Makes me wonder if Thomas even knows about it. Do you happen to know if there's a bug report? |
| 23:15.49 | clee | is fradeve on here? |
| 23:18.59 | cesarb | mwester: great work, I'll test on mine as soon as it compiles |
| 23:19.31 | cesarb | mwester: if this fixes all the gsmd problems, or if this plus my patch on bug 766 fixes all gsmd problems, it will be very good |
| 23:22.35 | cb22 | out of interest, what is the absolute minimum power the neo can / will / does use when in suspend |
| 23:22.57 | cb22 | ie, everything off, including gsm, etc, but turns on instantly on power butten press |
| 23:23.17 | SpeedEvil | 100uA or so |
| 23:23.21 | SpeedEvil | under 100uA |
| 23:23.28 | cb22 | uA? |
| 23:23.28 | SpeedEvil | I was not able to measure it with my setup |
| 23:23.33 | cb22 | like nothing |
| 23:23.33 | SpeedEvil | microamps |
| 23:23.42 | cb22 | and it would turn on instantly? |
| 23:23.47 | SpeedEvil | this is not suspend-RAM, but off |
| 23:24.03 | SpeedEvil | In principle - suspend-RAM only needs some 1mW or so. |
| 23:24.14 | cb22 | hmm, that would kick ass |
| 23:24.17 | SpeedEvil | but I've never measured it anywhere close to this. |
| 23:24.25 | cb22 | what did you measure around? |
| 23:24.32 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 23:24.37 | SpeedEvil | I need to remeasure that. |
| 23:24.49 | SpeedEvil | With GSM and audio off |
| 23:25.02 | cb22 | just been looking at the iphone's battery life |
| 23:25.04 | SpeedEvil | I think it was around 60mA - 250mW |
| 23:25.30 | cb22 | i suppose keeping the ram powered was a biatch? |
| 23:25.50 | cb22 | i dont suppose suspend-to-microsd / flash will be avalable any time soon? |
| 23:25.55 | cesarb | Can't we suspend-to-disk? Or is reading the flash too slow? |
| 23:26.10 | cb22 | cesarb, thinking the same thing |
| 23:26.17 | cb22 | if it is slow... |
| 23:26.25 | anrp | suspend to microsd sounds supremely iffy ~_~ |
| 23:26.26 | cb22 | it is sure as hell a lot faster then starting up |
| 23:26.47 | SpeedEvil | RAM should work well - if there are no hardware bugs |
| 23:27.03 | SpeedEvil | the battery life is around a year in principle with suspend-RAM |
| 23:27.17 | SpeedEvil | (though you'd probably want to suspend to SD after a month) |
| 23:27.22 | cb22 | suppose self discharge becomes an issue there :) |
| 23:27.29 | cesarb | cb22: we could probably do a lot better in startup time |
| 23:27.33 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 23:27.35 | SpeedEvil | not a year |
| 23:27.35 | cb22 | true... |
| 23:27.40 | SpeedEvil | 40 days |
| 23:27.46 | cb22 | like removing portmap |
| 23:27.46 | cesarb | cb22: given that, for instance, there's no need to probe things (it's all fixed!) |
| 23:28.15 | cb22 | yeah |
| 23:28.27 | cb22 | any estimates on ideal startup time? |
| 23:29.09 | cesarb | cb22: I'd guesstimate that we can get the current kernel boot time (that really fast scrolling), and double it (to allow for userspace)... that would be my initial target |
| 23:29.41 | cesarb | cb22: below that it would start getting hard to reduce boot time, but probably would be possible |
| 23:29.49 | cb22 | yeah |
| 23:32.04 | cesarb | cb22: well, first we have to make gsmd work... looks like mwester did something to it, I'm going to test right now |
| 23:32.11 | cb22 | and just removing unnessacery things will give an quick boost |
| 23:32.14 | cb22 | like portmap... |
| 23:32.19 | cb22 | all 20 or so seconds of it! |
| 23:32.30 | cb22 | cesarb, i heard about that, apparently gsmd is behaving now? |
| 23:32.44 | anrp | or do the parallel thing, and multithread boot |
| 23:33.22 | cb22 | i remember something about context switching being quite expensive on the neo's processor |
| 23:33.52 | cesarb | cb22: should be behaving, if he found the real cause... |
| 23:34.04 | cb22 | hope so |
| 23:34.08 | cesarb | cb22: but, as you are just complaining about, it's real slow to boot :D |
| 23:35.15 | cesarb | cb22: we've not got to even 10% of GTA01's potential, and you are already impatient for GTA02? |
| 23:35.38 | Aria | cb22: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1281700.1281703&coll=PORTAL&dl=ACM&CFID=15151515&CFTOKEN=6184618 |
| 23:35.46 | cb22 | yep ^-^ |
| 23:35.53 | cb22 | i dont have a '01 to begin with |
| 23:36.03 | cb22 | been holding for the '02, with wifi being the killer |
| 23:36.09 | anrp | there are good reasons for pushing for gta02 |
| 23:36.23 | anrp | you can't realistically expect a device to be developed fully when you don't have the device in question |
| 23:36.37 | cesarb | cb22: well, first try worked, now for the real test... cold-starting the neo |
| 23:36.51 | cesarb | cb22: heh, for me BT was the killer, but GTA01 has BT, so... :D |
| 23:37.01 | cb22 | lol |
| 23:37.17 | mjr | yeah BT was killer enough |
| 23:37.29 | cb22 | any specs out on the ar6k? |
| 23:37.34 | cesarb | cb22: I can perfectly understand why they delayed everything to add BT. I, for one, wouldn't have gotten one without BT |
| 23:37.52 | anrp | and I, for one, have never actually used bt before |
| 23:37.56 | anrp | .. i should, though |
| 23:38.02 | cb22 | i second that anrp |
| 23:38.06 | mjr | cb22, afaik no, just a gpl driver |
| 23:38.15 | anrp | thats almost as good as specs D: |
| 23:38.24 | cb22 | so no things like sensitivity, etc? |
| 23:38.59 | cb22 | and does / will that driver eventually have Really-Cool-Things(tm) in it, like monitor mode and packet injection? |
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| 23:43.22 | cesarb | cb22: great, it booted fine... gsmd behaved itself |
| 23:43.29 | cesarb | cb22: now, let's get a SIM... |
| 23:43.40 | cb22 | cesarb, good so far... |
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| 23:45.28 | cesarb | man, this battery loves leaping out of the neo when I open the back |
| 23:45.41 | cb22 | and your sd card is 16384 times bigger or so |
| 23:45.47 | mjr | see, that's why they call it the anti-iPhone |
| 23:46.15 | cesarb | mjr: ? |
| 23:46.23 | cb22 | removable battery :) |
| 23:46.41 | mjr | indeed :] |
| 23:47.13 | mjr | Anyway, yeah, it's crazy how you can get 4 gigs of flash on a thumbnail. Soon to be 8. |
| 23:47.53 | mjr | (not shipped with Neo, just talking in general availability now) |
| 23:48.08 | cesarb | mjr: ...when not long ago it was 1440K on a credit-card-sized (sorta) thing... |
| 23:49.22 | anrp | fd is way bigger than any credit card I've seen... |
| 23:49.38 | cesarb | yay, looks like _gmsd_ is working fine now... |
| 23:49.49 | cesarb | mwester, congrats! |
| 23:49.53 | cesarb | HOWEVER |
| 23:49.57 | anrp | what about gsmd though? |
| 23:49.59 | Aria | Yay! |
| 23:50.02 | cesarb | something which should have asked gsmd to register didn't... |
| 23:51.13 | cesarb | it works! (or at least displays a signal strength... which is always full here, since the antenna is like just outside the window) |
| 23:52.27 | cesarb | but the dialer doesn't want to load :( |
| 23:52.46 | cesarb | it shows the "spinning Qt icon" for a while, and then does nothing |
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| 23:57.35 | cesarb | so, now we have gsmd working fine, and the two fighting GUI thingys which actually manage it not working that well anymore. nice. |
