| 00:00.28 | niclone | after tested the speed of the neo to write on the sdcard, I assume you'll need about 5.6 day to fully fill it with the neo ;) |
| 00:03.18 | cb22_ | niclone, hows the read speed on it? |
| 00:05.50 | niclone | cb22_: about 3MB/s (and about 4x faster than writing) |
| 00:07.25 | niclone | (and using 100% CPU) |
| 00:11.43 | cb22_ | :/ |
| 00:11.57 | cb22_ | the speeds nice, the cpu isn't |
| 00:12.30 | niclone | well... it's a phone ;) |
| 00:12.36 | cb22_ | no its not! |
| 00:12.40 | niclone | lol |
| 00:12.52 | cb22_ | it's a tiny computer |
| 00:18.16 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-21-215.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:20.08 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D9C1B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:23.23 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-248-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:27.18 | *** join/#openmoko Mek_ (n=marijn@s55917044.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 00:29.27 | *** join/#openmoko j0tt (n=j@unaffiliated/jott) |
| 00:30.42 | *** join/#openmoko andy_t (n=andrew@219-89-91-5.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) |
| 00:37.32 | *** join/#openmoko Mek__ (n=marijn@s55917044.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 00:38.31 | *** join/#openmoko meshuga_ (i=meshuga@c-98-203-137-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:39.40 | mwester | niclone: The sd card is mounted with the "sync" option by default -- remount it without that and it runs several orders of magnitude faster. |
| 00:40.14 | mwester | (The sync option is normal for such a card since it's usually removable, but in the case of the neo, well... |
| 00:40.19 | mwester | ) |
| 00:42.56 | *** part/#openmoko inazouma (n=user@bdy93-1-82-67-223-79.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 00:43.55 | niclone | mwester: oh, thanks, it write now as fast as it read :) |
| 00:51.43 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D888E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:58.05 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 01:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z5b2c.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:06.23 | juri_ | yay. my openmoko is alive! :) |
| 01:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko foomil__ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-076-233-053.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 01:20.35 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.79.155.184) |
| 01:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br) |
| 01:41.50 | CM | ScaredyCat: At my age? :P I'm 28... ;) |
| 01:42.05 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 01:44.35 | juri_ | so.. the new media player just isn't working? :) |
| 01:44.53 | juri_ | and there appears to be no way to remove items from the playlist.... |
| 01:48.01 | cesarb | juri_: you actually expected it to WORK? |
| 01:48.05 | CM | juri_: Found any cupcake lately? |
| 01:51.03 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: [openmoko-announce] Help Request for our Webshop |
| 01:54.03 | CM | mwester: Rumor has it that gllin has many names ;) |
| 01:54.17 | mwester | A rose by any other name :) |
| 01:54.28 | CM | Hehe |
| 01:54.36 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe3cdd00-15.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 01:54.58 | CM | I haven't even tried to make a chroot yet |
| 01:57.02 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD9538266.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:01.47 | CM | Hmmm.. midori_0.0.6 doesn't build |
| 02:14.40 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe_ (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 02:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe__ (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 02:17.27 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe___ (n=Eric@67.55.26.38) |
| 02:17.43 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@61.173.118.249) |
| 02:20.54 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177770446.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.169.149) |
| 02:48.09 | thomasg | hm, why is the .tar-file so much bigger than the jffs2? is it compressed? |
| 02:48.24 | thomasg | (jffs2 I mean) |
| 03:04.57 | juri_ | there seems to be a prebuilt chroot for gllin.. |
| 03:05.04 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-225-176.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:20.32 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 03:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.38) |
| 03:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko dotmef (n=mef@mx1.bitwise.org) |
| 03:35.33 | juri_ | and it seems to work. waiting 15 minutes to get a signal... |
| 03:37.44 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 03:42.05 | *** join/#openmoko born_to_lose (i=__-_-__@85.139.140.51) |
| 03:59.09 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 04:02.54 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c-68-35-124-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 04:03.23 | juri_ | i don't see any satellites.. but i'm getting a nmea stream. |
| 04:04.24 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 04:04.52 | juri_ | oh. there it goes. |
| 04:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 04:19.58 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@60.53.171.85) |
| 04:24.23 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 04:37.18 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@c-71-229-150-100.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 04:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:42.50 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 04:45.35 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 04:49.18 | bedboi | re |
| 04:50.52 | roh | re |
| 04:51.05 | bedboi | i've just reinstalled openmoko |
| 04:51.19 | bedboi | and ipkg update && ipkg ugrade |
| 04:51.38 | bedboi | it seems that i can't run applications for some reason |
| 04:52.12 | bedboi | http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/?C=M;O=D <-- i used this |
| 04:52.31 | bedboi | ops.. http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 |
| 04:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-66-122-77-174.dsl.snlo01.pacbell.net) |
| 04:55.51 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 05:01.02 | bedboi | matchbox-window 94% cpu |
| 05:03.46 | *** join/#openmoko etahhhh (n=etah52@c-24-10-163-135.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:04.09 | *** part/#openmoko born_to_lose (i=__-_-__@85.139.140.51) |
| 05:05.28 | bedboi | Starting system message bus: Unknown group "netdev" in message bus configuration file |
| 05:05.28 | bedboi | dbus. |
| 05:08.40 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 05:10.21 | cw666 | bedboi: been like that for weeks |
| 05:10.35 | bedboi | avahi |
| 05:12.24 | bedboi | ah and it crashes |
| 05:12.35 | bedboi | i don't know which is the "desktop" application |
| 05:12.41 | bedboi | it crashes if i try to run the dialer |
| 05:13.59 | abraxa_ | juri_: The media player does work - what problems did you face? And no, can't delete playlist items just yet, there are some audio system problems that are more urgent than that atm |
| 05:14.38 | bedboi | oh man this image is so messed up |
| 05:16.37 | bedboi | feedreader, mediaplayer, dates...they all segfault |
| 05:17.04 | mwester | What's the date on the image, do you know? |
| 05:17.16 | abraxa_ | bedboi: Yeah it is and libmokoui is the culprit |
| 05:17.22 | mwester | There was a library problem not too long ago |
| 05:17.24 | bedboi | mwester: it's today |
| 05:17.49 | mwester | I'm working with an image from 12 hours ago, and all is well. |
| 05:18.00 | bedboi | mwester: url? |
| 05:18.00 | mwester | (at least, no worse than usual) |
| 05:18.08 | mwester | I built it myself :) |
| 05:18.25 | mwester | I can probably put it up for a download though. |
| 05:18.57 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@c-71-229-150-100.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 05:21.15 | bedboi | mwester: thansk |
| 05:21.16 | bedboi | thanks |
| 05:22.33 | mwester | It'll take a bit; my link is slow tonight. Either weather-related (it's a wireless broadband link), or everyone on this tower is downloading movies or porn or something... :( |
| 05:24.07 | bedboi | ehhe |
| 05:24.20 | bedboi | i guess porn |
| 05:26.15 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 05:26.57 | juri_ | abraxa: hitting the play button does nothing. and no song length shows on the length meter. |
| 05:27.18 | juri_ | right now, i'm trying to get GPS output to my nokia n770. |
| 05:27.29 | juri_ | i've got them communicating via bluetooth... |
| 05:27.53 | juri_ | bu its nokia->neo only. neo->nokia appears to not get there... |
| 05:28.37 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 05:30.30 | *** part/#openmoko etahhhh (n=etah52@c-24-10-163-135.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:32.41 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 05:36.01 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484D9CD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
| 05:38.58 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 05:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko jonibo (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 05:58.06 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-72-177-114-179.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 06:00.34 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
| 06:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 06:14.23 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_North_Texas]] |
| 06:14.27 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 06:15.24 | mwester | bedboi: http://www.mwester.net/moko |
| 06:15.50 | mwester | Make sure you check the md5 sums; I had to restart the transfer a few times, so there's a chance it got damaged. |
| 06:16.50 | bedboi | why do i need the gsmd? |
| 06:17.03 | mwester | Note also that this is a patched kernel - use the supplied /etc/init.d/gsmd script and gsmd should start reliably (the dialer will complain about modem power, and the little status bar will often vanish, but those are known issues) |
| 06:18.00 | mwester | You don't have to use the gsmd, the standard hacked one should work, but it often doesn't and has to be restarted in the /etc/matchbox/session file. |
| 06:20.42 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@e179100065.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 06:23.40 | bedboi | mwester: thanks i have all the files |
| 06:25.23 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (n=kwkw@d15-155.dip.axsp.de) |
| 06:29.19 | mwester | bedboi: md5sums ok? |
| 06:36.21 | bedboi | yep |
| 06:36.25 | bedboi | reflashing |
| 06:36.39 | bedboi | i'll say in two mins |
| 06:38.48 | bedboi | booting |
| 06:40.25 | bedboi | damn that boot sound is so scary |
| 06:40.50 | mwester | hehe - edit /etc/pulse/session (or something) and remove the line containing "startup" |
| 06:40.58 | bedboi | damn is so bad |
| 06:41.12 | bedboi | btw it's the same |
| 06:41.13 | bedboi | it dies |
| 06:41.24 | mwester | I also rename /etc/init.d/psplash to no-psplash or something, so I can see what's going on. |
| 06:41.48 | bedboi | maybe i should use your gsmd |
| 06:41.50 | *** join/#openmoko fehmicans (n=canavar@88.253.23.214) |
| 06:41.51 | mwester | And I cannot figure out what use the avahi daemon is on the device, and I can't stand waiting for it to timeout, so I rename that startup file too |
| 06:43.24 | mwester | Oh - and I edit /etc/fstab -- comment out the entries for /tmp and /media/ram -- don't need them, and the first one causes extraneous error messages at startup |
| 06:45.01 | mwester | I didn't say everything works, but I did make a test phone call with the dialer this afternoon, so at least that much works. :) |
| 06:45.16 | bedboi | it crashes |
| 06:45.23 | bedboi | let's see with your gsmd script |
| 06:45.41 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 06:45.55 | bedboi | and i get the "openmoko" splashscreen |
| 06:46.06 | bedboi | the one that says "please wait ..." |
| 06:47.03 | mwester | The one with the progress bar, or the one that tells you to wait for the gui? |
| 06:47.46 | bedboi | no wait for the gui |
| 06:48.14 | bedboi | i'm trying to open the dialer |
| 06:48.21 | bedboi | but nothing happens |
| 06:48.39 | mwester | Did you get a dialog box complaining that it couldn't "set antenna power"? |
| 06:48.46 | bedboi | no |
| 06:49.01 | bedboi | i've power it up |
| 06:49.05 | mwester | Ok, very different from what I'm experiencing. |
| 06:49.26 | bedboi | ok now it's again dead |
| 06:49.38 | bedboi | but this time the panel is stil there |
| 06:49.45 | bedboi | i'd say it's QUITE unstable |
| 06:50.05 | mwester | The panel problem I get as well. |
| 06:50.14 | bedboi | no the panel is there:) |
| 06:50.14 | mwester | Yes, it's *very* unstable. |
| 06:50.16 | bedboi | the desktop |
| 06:50.24 | bedboi | the desktop has gone |
| 06:50.35 | mwester | Nope, not seen that then. |
| 06:51.19 | bedboi | there must be some curse then |
| 06:51.28 | mwester | I wonder if I didn't flash the image I thought I did, then... :( |
| 06:51.39 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-209-155.44-151.net24.it) |
| 06:51.51 | bedboi | mwester: i'm not so good at voodoo. |
| 06:51.52 | bedboi | btw |
| 06:52.13 | bedboi | i would like to give gtk+ direct framebuffer a try |
| 06:52.30 | bedboi | i was trying to compile it but it needs some patches |
| 06:52.40 | bedboi | that are not in files/ |
| 06:52.52 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 06:57.40 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485DB5B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:05.52 | bedboi | actually no apps in the application menu start |
| 07:05.53 | mwester | Ok, something is broken badly in the latest builds. I'll find that last working image and get that uploaded, but it'll have to wait until morning (it's 2AM here, gotta get some sleep sometime). Good luck. |
| 07:06.12 | mwester | Yeah, they all complain about icons or something. |
| 07:06.20 | bedboi | hmm |
| 07:06.22 | bedboi | it could be |
| 07:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 07:07.52 | mwester | You can try to find a copy of |
| 07:07.52 | mwester | libmokoui2-0_0.1.0+svnr2868-r2_armv4t.ipk in the feeds, and force ipkg to downgrade that library (I think that's the culprit) |
| 07:08.03 | bedboi | ok |
| 07:09.19 | mwester | If you can't bludgeon ipkg into behaving, just use ar to extract the contents, then manually put the contents of the data.tar.gz into place... can't break it any worse. |
| 07:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 07:20.14 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/armv4t/libmokoui2-0_0.1.0+svnr2868-r2_armv4t.ipk |
| 07:21.59 | bedboi | ScaredyCat: how to take a screenshot? |
| 07:22.04 | bedboi | cat /dev/fb0 ? |
| 07:23.31 | bedboi | ipkg install ./libmokoui2-0_0.1.0+svnr2868-r2_armv4t.ipk -force-downgrade ? |
| 07:24.45 | ScaredyCat | is the screenshot app installed? |
| 07:25.04 | ScaredyCat | if not cat /dev/fb0 >myscreenshot.raw |
| 07:25.11 | ScaredyCat | then use fb2png |
| 07:25.15 | bedboi | yep |
| 07:25.17 | bedboi | ok |
| 07:25.30 | ScaredyCat | or fbgrab ? |
| 07:25.32 | bedboi | what's the name of the screenshot app? |
| 07:25.33 | ScaredyCat | is that there? |
| 07:25.43 | bedboi | fbgrab is there |
| 07:25.47 | ScaredyCat | use that |
| 07:25.54 | ScaredyCat | iirc it converts it too |
| 07:25.56 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 07:25.59 | bedboi | yep |
| 07:31.03 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 07:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 07:32.25 | bedboi | ScaredyCat: i installed it, let's see what happens |
| 07:35.23 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 07:35.34 | bedboi | ok it's enough for me. it can place calls |
| 07:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko kirikiri (n=mlunter@host192-12-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:40.23 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 07:42.59 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 07:43.30 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 07:49.28 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 07:52.06 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AFF86.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (i=cb22@dsl-245-176-44.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 07:57.30 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 07:58.43 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-248-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:04.06 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 08:04.50 | juri_ | i'll report success here too. i placed a call earlier. there was a ugly hum, and massive lag.. but it worked. |
| 08:05.36 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 08:05.44 | cjb_ie | hum like GSM buzz? or some other kind of hum? |
| 08:06.04 | juri_ | something that sounded like.. arround 120hz. |
| 08:06.28 | bedboi | how can i use openmoko-keyboard instead of the matchbox one? |
| 08:08.10 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3AF4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:09.36 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 08:09.53 | kirikiri | hi, could somebody help me setting up the openmoko environment, I've got a compilation error in the uboot package... |
| 08:10.43 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: Mind posting your error to a pastebin? |
| 08:10.52 | kirikiri | ok |
| 08:12.38 | kirikiri | http://pastebin.com/m4fddd53d |
| 08:17.36 | kirikiri | I've followed the instructions on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr |
| 08:21.54 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: Can I see the contents of your build/conf/local.conf, please? |
| 08:21.57 | bedboi | is there any good reason for defaulting to "No pim" |
| 08:22.44 | ljp | woohoo! payment received! |
| 08:22.57 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-32-146-127.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 08:23.35 | webjames | hey guys any thoughts on this effecting the neo1973, or maybe the next version. i must say it's a brilliant step forward: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/0,1000000085,39289524,00.htm |
| 08:23.37 | ljp | heh |
| 08:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A578F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:26.00 | kirikiri | abraxa: yes, http://pastebin.com/d26aa3928 |
| 08:26.06 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:27.28 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@wikipedia/cesarb) |
| 08:28.20 | ScaredyCat | " |
| 08:28.20 | ScaredyCat | Preferable this webshop should not be written in PHP. Either Perl, |
| 08:28.20 | ScaredyCat | Python or Ruby would be fine by us. |
| 08:28.22 | ScaredyCat | " |
| 08:30.21 | cesarb | Man, this power-loss thing is getting ridiculous |
| 08:30.45 | cesarb | Again the nobreak stops working a few seconds before the power comes back |
| 08:31.03 | cesarb | 5-minute-long power losses on a 5-minute-battery nobreak doesn't work so well... |
| 08:31.47 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.93.242) |
| 08:32.00 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-185.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:33.59 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3AF4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:34.20 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: Hmm. For some reason it's not using the cross-compiler |
| 08:35.38 | kirikiri | yes, I changed my local.conf to compile for PC (first I was compiling for qemu) |
| 08:35.54 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 08:36.45 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: That might get OE confused unless you clean out the build/tmp directory |
| 08:37.10 | kirikiri | I've deleted the complete build first |
| 08:37.16 | *** join/#openmoko Jepessen (n=chatzill@ppp-172-230.33-151.iol.it) |
| 08:37.30 | kirikiri | everything below ~/openmoko |
| 08:37.42 | abraxa_ | Ah, hm. Unfortunately I'm out of ideas then atm, did you check the bugzilla? |
| 08:38.04 | kirikiri | not yet, I'll give it a look |
| 08:38.36 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 08:39.39 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:41.12 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: btw, you might want to add ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" to your local.conf to avoid tedious locale building for gcc |
| 08:43.23 | kirikiri | ok I'll add that, nothing interesting found for uboot on bugzilla... |
| 08:44.27 | abraxa_ | Bummer. |
| 08:51.55 | kirikiri | I don't know the building procedure in openmoko, but I guess 'i486-angstrom-linux-gcc' builds uboot. How can I find out to which executable it points, so I could try to compile hello_world.c manually to hunt down the problem... |
| 08:52.45 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:54.48 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: Have a look at build/tmp/work/arm.../u-boot-openmoko.../temp/run.* |
| 08:57.13 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: Come to think of it... you want to run the apps natively on your PC or what do you try to do? |
| 08:57.35 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 08:57.54 | abraxa_ | Heya Zecke :) |
| 08:58.08 | kirikiri | abraxa: yes, natively on PC with Xephyr |
| 08:59.09 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: Ah, hm |
| 09:00.17 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: In that case you might want to just build the OM libs/apps by hand but then again I don't know how much experience you have... |
| 09:00.18 | kirikiri | no device available here and qemu is way too slow ;) |
| 09:03.07 | kirikiri | ok, I thought it wouldn't be too difficult (at least the wiki mentioned just some changes in local.conf to correctly build the environment) |
| 09:04.12 | abraxa_ | Unfortunately, succeeding an OE build is like trying to walk on egg shells - you can succeed but more often than not, things will break |
| 09:06.43 | kirikiri | :), yeah I've seen that compiling for qemu, 1 of 10 attempts succeeded. Now manually changing something in the build system seems a bit of a overhead for me, want just try out some apps... |
| 09:13.53 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:22.48 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host241-227-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:24.02 | kirikiri | abraxa: thanks for helping... |
| 09:24.30 | abraxa_ | kirikiri: Wish I could've done more ;p |
| 09:29.02 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 09:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 09:35.59 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 09:36.03 | *** join/#openmoko LittleIdiot (n=lite@2001:4d50:100:1:0:0:2:12) |
| 09:37.21 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-188-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:43.34 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 09:43.36 | *** join/#openmoko IfChinsCouldKill (n=ifchinsc@pD955F0F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:43.38 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 09:46.59 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host168-127-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:47.03 | *** join/#openmoko der__io (n=der@p54A0CD55.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:50.33 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@81.84.150.241) |
| 09:51.21 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-75-193.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:58.38 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-214-13.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:08.21 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__92 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-99e70ff5994c2dd2) |
| 10:10.16 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-75-193.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 10:10.48 | pH5 | what about the libmokoui2 issue? does somebody have a fix? r3032 is still broken, it seems. |
| 10:10.59 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:12.22 | abraxa_ | pH5: Nope, and I assume that it won't be fixed till monday morning UTC (which is when the guys at openedhand start working) |
| 10:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 10:14.32 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 10:14.45 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/it]] |
| 10:14.49 | pH5 | abraxa_: thanks, that's a pity. |
| 10:15.05 | abraxa_ | Unfortunately, yeah |
| 10:15.48 | abraxa_ | ...it really does make me cherish the core team :) |
| 10:17.30 | *** join/#openmoko derFrank (n=derFrank@Pb34c.p.pppool.de) |
| 10:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54951169.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:18.03 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 10:19.19 | *** part/#openmoko hachi (i=hachi@shego.kuiki.net) |
| 10:26.12 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 10:26.18 | PBeck | hi |
| 10:27.52 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X1b00.x.pppool.de) |
| 10:28.08 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3AF4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:28.12 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFDDEC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:28.15 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3AF4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:28.15 | mickey|portugal | cu in two weeks |
| 10:28.16 | mickey|portugal | take care |
| 10:28.54 | PBeck | mickey|portugal: have fun :) |
| 10:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 10:30.02 | C7 | mickey|portugal: have a good time ;) |
| 10:31.17 | rob_w | oops my neo is again deeply discharged .. |
| 10:31.37 | ScaredyCat | abraxa_: how many 'guys' is 'guys at openedhand start working' |
| 10:31.38 | rob_w | is there a way to prevent this ? |
| 10:31.59 | ScaredyCat | after you power it down, take the battery out for a minute or two |
| 10:32.18 | ScaredyCat | assuming you are actually powering it down |
| 10:33.22 | rob_w | ScaredyCat, is see .. it should revive ins some hours right ? |
| 10:34.15 | *** part/#openmoko EdSchouten (i=ed@palm.hoeg.nl) |
| 10:35.14 | *** join/#openmoko fehmicans (n=canavar@88.253.23.214) |
| 10:35.26 | ScaredyCat | oh yeah... |
| 10:36.05 | ScaredyCat | 30 mins - depends on if your port can deliver 500ma ... |
| 10:39.40 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@a88-114-151-210.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:41.44 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 10:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko cyphi__ (n=cyphi@a91-153-115-158.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:49.57 | *** join/#openmoko ketea (n=olpar0@c-68-59-167-250.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 11:00.56 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 11:01.51 | *** join/#openmoko faern (n=faern@faern.olf.sgsnet.se) |
| 11:02.29 | *** join/#openmoko burton` (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-13-195.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:21.46 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 11:23.42 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:24.26 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-207-144.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:28.49 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 11:34.19 | *** join/#openmoko kt (n=kayon@124-168-192-43.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:37.16 | *** join/#openmoko hultqvist (n=pdh@80.251.192.3) |
| 11:37.54 | PBeck | can the feedreader cache a website? That would be a good idea to read the feeds offline => before you go to work cache all linked websites |
| 11:38.05 | PBeck | in the rss feed |
| 11:38.33 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:Proxy would be nice too |
| 11:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 11:39.35 | PBeck | with wlan on the gta02 is the connection to the interet not the problem i think :) |
| 11:40.08 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i look :) |
| 11:40.09 | SpeedEvil | I should expand that as to 'cache on demand' section |
| 11:41.14 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: webproxy is a great idea |
| 11:41.22 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 11:41.32 | SpeedEvil | Tehre were a number of projects to do this. |
| 11:41.40 | SpeedEvil | But they all died when dialup died. |
| 11:41.58 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: on the go is this a super idea :) |
| 11:42.25 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: with wlan at home we need a cache to read offline :) |
| 11:42.37 | SpeedEvil | The underlying software I was thinking of using - wwwoffle - www offline explorer - also supports grabbing entire websites |
| 11:42.56 | SpeedEvil | and grabbing pages that you click on that are not cached next time you get to a network |
| 11:43.09 | CM | OperaMini is using a proxy |
| 11:43.24 | PBeck | http://www.gedanken.demon.co.uk/wwwoffle/ |
| 11:43.37 | PBeck | wwwoffle + feedreader would be a good combination |
| 11:43.44 | SpeedEvil | But adding the differential cache option would _drastically_ reduce bandwidth |
| 11:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:44.03 | SpeedEvil | I've used wwwoffle for a while |
| 11:44.13 | SpeedEvil | Another usefull app is to do all your browsing through it |
| 11:44.14 | PBeck | who writes the feedreader? |
| 11:44.23 | PBeck | perhaps we can collect a few ideas |
| 11:44.27 | SpeedEvil | then you can run a search engine onto it |
| 11:44.33 | CM | PBeck: It's zecke |
| 11:44.43 | PBeck | nice ok :) |
| 11:44.45 | SpeedEvil | searching your cache tends to be much more productive for stuff. |
| 11:44.46 | PBeck | thanks |
| 11:44.52 | SpeedEvil | if you know you've seen it before |
| 11:45.07 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 11:46.16 | cjb_ie | i've wanted that feature so many time |
| 11:46.18 | cjb_ie | *times |
| 11:47.01 | PBeck | cjb_ie: :) |
| 11:47.17 | PBeck | feedreader + browser with a good cache |
| 11:47.29 | PBeck | for the proxy solution we need a extra server |
| 11:47.49 | PBeck | anybody musst host it self? |
| 11:48.10 | thomasg | would be ok for me :) |
| 11:48.37 | PBeck | i havent a server :> |
| 11:48.41 | thomasg | maybe this could be an optional (commercial) service from OpenMoko Inc. |
| 11:49.00 | PBeck | yes that will be a option |
| 11:49.19 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 11:49.26 | PBeck | but with a good cache in browser + feedreader and wlan at home is the problem not so big for me :) |
| 11:49.30 | SpeedEvil | It would need a modest amount of CPU, storage, per user. |
| 11:49.43 | SpeedEvil | 50-500M or so. |
| 11:49.59 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: server oder cache in the mobilephone? |
| 11:50.04 | thomasg | a opera-like service would be really cool |
| 11:50.15 | SpeedEvil | The cache needs to be the same size on each end |
| 11:50.51 | SpeedEvil | that's the point. If you reload ebay.com, it sends the differences between the one on the server, and the one on the local proxy |
| 11:50.52 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 11:51.10 | SpeedEvil | you have two identical caches |
| 11:51.24 | thomasg | Neo <rsync> Proxy |
| 11:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-188-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:51.43 | SpeedEvil | rsync is very inefficient, compared to this. |
| 11:52.11 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: ah yes i understand |
| 11:52.15 | SpeedEvil | finding differences between two files over the network is much harder than transmitting updates to known identical files |
| 11:52.16 | thomasg | only an example |
| 11:52.33 | SpeedEvil | there was a rsync-http protocol idea. |
| 11:52.39 | SpeedEvil | which would add it into http |
| 11:52.49 | thomasg | erm, gentoo does that already afaik |
| 11:53.01 | thomasg | it's called web-rsync |
| 11:53.11 | SpeedEvil | but that basically has problems. |
| 11:53.24 | SpeedEvil | no - the idea was that every website would support it |
| 11:53.36 | thomasg | ah |
| 11:53.40 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i ask zecke for the cache integration in the feedreader ;) |
| 11:53.41 | thomasg | ok, that makes it a bit harder :) |
| 11:54.01 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 11:54.06 | SpeedEvil | then you connect to a website, say you can do rsync, and the website and you work out the changes in the page between its version, and your local stored version |
| 11:54.28 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: it's pretty much a transparent http proxy |
| 11:54.31 | SpeedEvil | wwwoffle |
| 11:55.24 | SpeedEvil | you just tell whatever web-thingy that you're using that as a proxy, and the (cached) bit of the web just works offline |
| 11:55.48 | mjr | wait wwwoffle also does this differential download bit? |
| 11:56.02 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 11:56.05 | mjr | or was that just something we'd need added |
| 11:56.06 | mjr | right |
| 11:56.07 | SpeedEvil | that was a patch |
| 11:56.13 | SpeedEvil | (to be written) |
| 11:56.13 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 11:56.17 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: that means we need no direct integration in the application |
| 11:56.44 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: integration is nice, but not required |
| 11:57.00 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: all internet traffic goes throuh wwwoffle |
| 11:58.10 | PBeck | why we need then a integration? |
| 11:58.36 | SpeedEvil | It's nice to be able to trigger downloads in a clean way |
| 11:58.59 | SpeedEvil | otherwise when you fall off the edge of the cache, you get 'this page has not been downloaded, click here to request' |
| 11:59.02 | PBeck | hum a "clean way" |
| 11:59.22 | PBeck | hum yes |
| 11:59.23 | SpeedEvil | And index pages of downloads |
| 11:59.39 | PBeck | but for this problem we need a button in the feedreader to cache alle websites |
| 11:59.47 | PBeck | *all |
| 12:00.00 | mjr | SpeedEvil, hmm. The default should rather be that it's downloaded transparently on the proxy end, IMO |
| 12:00.10 | SpeedEvil | this is in 'offline' mode |
| 12:00.27 | mjr | ah, so it is a mode question then |
| 12:00.31 | SpeedEvil | in online mode, it just downloads and caches |
| 12:00.43 | thomasg | hm, linux-openmoko builds a moko11-r2 and linux-openmoko-devel a moko11-r1 image? |
| 12:01.30 | mjr | (corrected already, but effect takes a while) |
| 12:02.11 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:03.40 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: the following scenario => i am at home with wlan and connect through the feedreader to the internet and download all websites to the local cache (automaticly, perhaps with a simple button). Now i am on the go and can offline read all feeds |
| 12:04.41 | SpeedEvil | There is - on the stock wwwoffle - a 'download from this page n deep' |
| 12:05.54 | mjr | wwwoffle certainly seems like good stuff to start with |
| 12:06.38 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: yes, but with a normal rss feed the first site would be enough for all news |
| 12:07.57 | *** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 12:09.42 | PBeck | http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/05/rss-reader-updates.html <= SpeedEvil |
| 12:10.22 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i am not the first with this idea ;) |
| 12:15.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FIC/de]] [[Booting_from_SD]] |
| 12:17.34 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@dhcp208-172.ed.ntnu.no) |
| 12:18.26 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 12:25.11 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@78.16.45.28) |
| 12:26.03 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 12:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (n=kwkw@d15-155.dip.axsp.de) |
| 12:39.16 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=user@f049021117.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:00.16 | rtyler | hrm, anybody know how mature the OpenMokoFramework is? |
| 13:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko inazouma (n=user@bdy93-1-82-67-223-79.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:07.57 | PBeck | rtyler: openmoko is in a early development status |
| 13:08.15 | PBeck | rtyler: not for a productive system |
| 13:08.34 | PBeck | rtyler: but here can you find good informationen to the functions they work mom |
| 13:09.11 | PBeck | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing |
| 13:09.16 | PBeck | rtyler: look at the end of the page |
| 13:11.34 | thomasg | do I have to set the bootable flag for the partition on my SD I want to boot from? |
| 13:11.38 | rtyler | PBeck: http://flickr.com/photos/agentdero/1053119243/in/set-72157600934925721/ |
| 13:11.42 | rtyler | that's me, trust me, I know ;) |
| 13:11.52 | Elrond | ~seen zdanek |
| 13:11.53 | apt | zdanek <n=b@ams122.internetdsl.tpnet.pl> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 1d 15h 10m 16s ago, saying: 'cu'. |
| 13:11.57 | Elrond | thomasg - probably not. |
| 13:12.09 | thomasg | Elrond: unfortunately it wont boot :( |
| 13:12.14 | PBeck | rtyler: ? |
| 13:12.37 | thomasg | I have 2 partitions, on the first (ext2) is the system including the kernel with ext2 support built in (fix) |
| 13:12.43 | Elrond | thomasg - You use the AUX button's menu for sd-booting? |
| 13:12.47 | thomasg | yes |
| 13:12.55 | rtyler | wheres a turing test when you need it, I can't tell if PBeck is a bot or not :P |
| 13:13.09 | PBeck | rtyler: why you have ask then for the mature of the framework? |
| 13:13.10 | Elrond | thomasg - Get on to u-boot console and boot it up by hand. :-) |
| 13:13.24 | rtyler | I didn't ask *if*, I asked *how much* |
| 13:14.03 | PBeck | rtyler: and the wikipage not answer your question? |
| 13:14.07 | thomasg | Elrond: in the u-boot console I do a mmcinit first |
| 13:14.16 | thomasg | it detectes the sd card, but I get an error |
| 13:14.27 | thomasg | mmc_block_read: err SDIDSTA=0x00000020 |
| 13:14.36 | Elrond | thomasg - Hmm, so maybe u-boot doesn't support your sd? |
| 13:14.44 | thomasg | Elrond: might be :( |
| 13:14.45 | rtyler | forget it >_> |
| 13:15.10 | Elrond | thomasg - I assume the supplied sd works with u-boot? |
| 13:15.12 | thomasg | would it be possible to flash the kernel only and let the rootfs on the partition? |
| 13:15.20 | thomasg | Elrond: didn't test it :) |
| 13:15.27 | thomasg | (shame on me) |
| 13:15.55 | Elrond | thomasg - Yes, putting kernel in flash, giving it the needed bootparam <-- should work. |
| 13:16.06 | Elrond | Assuming the kernel can talk to the sd. |
| 13:16.12 | thomasg | it should |
| 13:16.37 | PBeck | rtyler: hum the framework .. |
| 13:17.07 | *** join/#openmoko fobos666 (n=fobos@78.90.88.72) |
| 13:17.16 | PBeck | rtyler: look at the source :P |
| 13:17.24 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.72) |
| 13:19.29 | Elrond | thomasg - (assuming you have a debugboard and know to use it) Of couse you upgraded u-boot? ;o) |
| 13:19.51 | thomasg | I have a upgraded u-boot |
| 13:19.57 | thomasg | even if I don't have a debugboard :) |
| 13:20.00 | rtyler | PBeck: been there done that, looks like just barely libmokogsm and libmokoui are there :( |
| 13:20.19 | thomasg | its uboot-1.2.0-moko9-r0 |
| 13:21.03 | thomasg | but I guess I'm the first one with a 6gb microSDHC, so this probably won't work. in the wiki there are no informations about u-boot and SDHCs at all |
| 13:21.28 | PBeck | rtyler: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMokoFramework perhaps that help you (when you not know this site already) |
| 13:21.49 | PBeck | hum last change 30 July ... |
| 13:21.55 | PBeck | ok we can forget this site ... |
| 13:22.10 | Elrond | thomasg - Ahh. You might ask mickey, if it's worth to file a u-boot bug on this. |
| 13:22.42 | thomasg | Elrond: k, I'll do that |
| 13:24.56 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:25.51 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 13:26.10 | *** join/#openmoko der_io (n=der@p54A0CD55.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:27.25 | rtyler | PBeck: I'm well familiar with the wiki -_- |
| 13:27.31 | rtyler | and yes, that page is never updated |
| 13:27.57 | PBeck | rtyler: super, than i can shut up ... |
| 13:28.45 | rtyler | :) |
| 13:30.37 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 13:54.08 | *** join/#openmoko IfChinsCouldKill (n=ifchinsc@pD955F0F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:55.42 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 13:56.06 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 14:01.48 | IfChinsCouldKill | how long does it take to compile the whole build using the mokomakefile on a 2ghz pc? |
| 14:02.41 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 14:03.01 | rtyler | IfChinsCouldKill: 3+ hours |
| 14:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko khaoohs (n=khaoohs@74-129-4-11.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 14:03.31 | IfChinsCouldKill | thanks! |
| 14:04.19 | Jiten | IfChinsCouldKill: 2GHz pc gives rather fuzzy idea of the speed :) one core of 1.6GHz core2duo is about as fast as 3GHz Pentium4 :) |
| 14:05.47 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D9917.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:05.55 | IfChinsCouldKill | True. I started the makefile a couple hours ago an a P4 2Ghz notebook... you should hear the vent noise... hehe |
| 14:06.11 | IfChinsCouldKill | I guess I'll go for a walk or something... |
| 14:06.23 | thomasg | somebody here tested booting from a microSDHC? |
| 14:08.31 | Jiten | P4 in a notebook... I guess the running time on battery is not too hot :) |
| 14:09.38 | fobos | I just started a parallel build on core2quad with 8 threads and i'm timing it ;) I'q curious to see how the build time compares to the sequential one ;) |
| 14:09.42 | cesarb | IfChinsCouldKill: be sure to also factor in the download time |
| 14:13.05 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A578F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:14.18 | sagacis | thomasg: I'm trying to boot from SD right now. No luck so far. |
| 14:15.35 | thomasg | sagacis: same for me :( |
| 14:15.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Template:CURRENTMMDDhhmmYYYY]] [[Template:CURRENTDATE]] |
| 14:16.32 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 14:18.06 | sagacis | thomasg: I"m getting a kernel panic on boot. I've tried to use ext3 and ext2 on the sd card to no avail. I don't even know what's killing the init. |
| 14:19.25 | thomasg | I can't barely see the error, as the screen clears so fast :( but it is kind of "bad block" |
| 14:20.27 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 14:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 14:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko eesu (n=eesu@a88-112-83-180.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:32.41 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:39.44 | *** join/#openmoko |Volkodav| (n=kvirc@87.103.206-48.xdsl.ab.ru) |
| 14:42.56 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D9917.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:47.05 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:47.38 | *** part/#openmoko |Volkodav| (n=kvirc@87.103.206-48.xdsl.ab.ru) |
| 14:47.45 | thomasg | Elrond: btw - u-boot says "MMC found." but the descrition seems to be completely initialized with 0, so there's no information about the card. seems it simply isn't detected by uboot |
| 14:49.05 | thomasg | maybe I'll flash a new uboot version to try again - then I'll do a bug report |
| 14:49.34 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f048052052.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:54.46 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A57DE3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:01.14 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 15:26.50 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@78.16.48.31) |
| 15:27.38 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A57428.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:32.21 | mwester | PH5: Ping |
| 15:33.55 | pH5 | mwester: 64 bytes from pH5: icmp_seq=1 ttl=248 time=6150.5 ms |
| 15:34.02 | mwester | hehe |
| 15:34.59 | mwester | We can revert a change to see if we can get the build working again, but I'd like for someone besides myself to check that the change actually fixes the most recent problem... |
| 15:35.18 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:35.33 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-209-155.44-151.net24.it) |
| 15:35.47 | mwester | Are you in a position to be able to do such a test? |
| 15:36.21 | *** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=dr@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 15:36.26 | pH5 | mwester: what problem, what change? |
| 15:37.47 | mwester | "<pH5> what about the libmokoui2 issue? does somebody have a fix? r3032 is still broken, it seems." |
| 15:38.04 | pH5 | mwester: ok, sure. |
| 15:38.59 | mwester | Ok, I'll try to revert locally and post the change here :) |
| 15:44.14 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.169.149) |
| 15:54.15 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A7051.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 15:54.27 | hhf423 | moin |
| 15:57.12 | mwester | pH5: When you get a chance, you can try this: |
| 15:57.24 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D9917.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:57.29 | mwester | rm -rf build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libmokoui2-0.1.0+svnr* |
| 15:57.38 | mwester | rm -f build/tmp/stamps/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libmokoui2-0.1.0+svnr* |
| 15:57.51 | mwester | vi openembedded/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc |
| 15:58.38 | mwester | locate the line for libmokoui2, and change it to SRCREV_pn-libmokoui2 ?= "2868" |
| 15:58.42 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:59.12 | pH5 | heh, yes that works |
| 15:59.16 | mwester | Then build the image again; this time you should see it build the older svn version, and the image should function again (well, at least as well as it did yesterday!) |
| 15:59.20 | pH5 | (it's what I've done locally) |
| 16:00.16 | pH5 | just be sure to move the 3032 packages from the deploy directory |
| 16:00.41 | mwester | It should end up in the "morgue" directory automatically, I thought? |
| 16:01.18 | pH5 | I thought the older versions always end up in the morgue. |
| 16:01.59 | mwester | You are correct, the wrong one remains. I'll try bumping the PR and see if that fixes that problem. |
| 16:02.38 | pH5 | no that won't do it |
| 16:02.46 | pH5 | as 0.1-r9000 is still < 0.2-r0 |
| 16:03.24 | mwester | Well that's wrong then - we should have the r# and svn# in the other order then. |
| 16:03.36 | pH5 | mwester: no. |
| 16:04.21 | mwester | It seems wrong to bump the PV, though. |
| 16:04.41 | pH5 | what is wrong is that 3032 should have never went into sane-srcrevs without testing. other than that it works exactly like it's supposed to. |
| 16:05.02 | pH5 | the right way is to fix svn, which will automatically bump srcrev. |
| 16:05.09 | mwester | I agree with that -- a process was put in place so that this wouldn't happen. |
| 16:05.43 | mwester | But now we uncover another problem which is that it *DID* happen, and we have no easy sane way to revert in OE. |
| 16:06.32 | mwester | I can roll the sane-srcrevs back, but apparently that doesn't really fix it, as the wrong ipk remains in the feed (although the image should be correct if the PR is bumped) |
| 16:06.55 | mwester | I guess this will have to wait for someone with svn access to fix. |
| 16:07.11 | pH5 | mwester: if you want to fix it in oe, you have to apply a patch and bump PR on r3032 |
| 16:07.33 | IfChinsCouldKill | I'm back and now it's gerarating locale ca_ES ... ooof |
| 16:07.35 | pH5 | the mechanism for downgrading PV in OE are epochs (PE), but those should be used very carefully. |
| 16:08.11 | IfChinsCouldKill | generating even |
| 16:08.53 | mwester | Ok. So it's not easy to fix this in OE. Let's find out who did it, then, and boil them in oil. :p |
| 16:10.47 | anrp | you're too kind |
| 16:15.45 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Talk:Supported_microSD_cards]] [[Supported_microSD_cards]] |
| 16:16.54 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:19.18 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=chatzill@Zaa56.z.pppool.de) |
| 16:20.39 | unique | hi @ all, I have two questions... how good is the audio quality with earplugs at the Neo 1973 and what do you guys say to this article http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html |
| 16:21.02 | mjr | IMO it's "okay", but I'm no hifist |
| 16:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko Partizan (n=alex@port-163-adslby-pool37.infonet.by) |
| 16:22.02 | mjr | it makes a valid point that some tout openmoko as if it was finished, but is clueless on many points |
| 16:23.28 | bedboi | hi all |
| 16:25.00 | ixs | mjr: ahh come on. I had a good laugh about the "openmoko is developed as a windows smartphone by chinese companies"... |
| 16:25.29 | bedboi | eheheh |
| 16:26.02 | unique | mjr: I don't need a cell phone to be as good as a hifi system but good enough to play some music with normal-good quality ;) |
| 16:26.10 | bedboi | don't you think that the font used in contact list is too small? |
| 16:26.44 | bedboi | it's difficult to select the right contact with the finger |
| 16:27.38 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-72-177-114-179.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 16:27.42 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@port-87-234-84-208.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 16:29.39 | ScaredyCat | that article is so old now, and so inaccurate... |
| 16:29.59 | ScaredyCat | have a look on the ml for responses to/frm the author |
| 16:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:35.44 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cjb@zorilla.apana.org.au) |
| 16:37.55 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:39.04 | no_mind | tin ting tiring |
| 16:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 16:46.11 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-169-170.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 16:47.06 | *** join/#openmoko Unleashed (n=alex@89.129.188.182) |
| 16:48.48 | *** join/#openmoko sunix (n=sunix@sunix.org) |
| 16:48.57 | sunix | hi all :) |
| 16:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko crackfiend (n=chatzill@ppp-69-233-27-165.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 16:50.35 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 16:52.53 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 16:53.15 | hhf423 | hi sunix |
| 16:53.36 | *** join/#openmoko Vanasarn (n=Tommy@81-235-178-226-no54.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 16:54.12 | thomasg | unique: imho the sound quality with the included earplugs is not that good. I've heard much worse plugs (included with mp3 players and so on), but that's not what I'd call hifi. unfortunatately I do not have a 2.5->3.5mm adapter, so I can't test my good earphones |
| 16:54.17 | *** join/#openmoko miip__ (n=miip@p54A57A9E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:56.04 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Help Request for our Webshop |
| 16:56.42 | unique | thomasg: I don't mean the quality of the earplugs but the sound-quality in general |
| 16:57.36 | hhf423 | good sound is in hardware |
| 16:59.56 | thomasg | the speakers are ok (in fact the included plugs are hardly better), but like I said - I had no chance to test the real quality because I don't own the needed adapter |
| 17:00.23 | thomasg | for a mobile phone it's quite good |
| 17:00.47 | *** join/#openmoko Kryoko (n=kryoko@181-240-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 17:00.47 | mwester | fyi, for those who wish 2.5 -> 3.5 adaptors, I think the ones commonly sold for the Treo will work. |
| 17:01.22 | mwester | (except that the shipping costs from online retailers usually exceed the item's value :( ) |
| 17:02.01 | unique | thomasg: if the quality is ok ... it's ok for me :-) |
| 17:10.43 | *** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171) |
| 17:10.51 | *** join/#openmoko meshuga (i=meshuga@c-98-203-137-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:11.00 | unique | how long does it last to boot the neo 1973 with openmoko ? |
| 17:11.07 | unique | -last +take |
| 17:12.39 | cb22 | unique, IIRC about 1min 30sec or so |
| 17:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@host27-79-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:12.46 | cb22 | there are bootcharts on the wiki |
| 17:13.15 | unique | cb22: thx |
| 17:13.30 | thomasg | cb22: does the neo use standard sysVinit? |
| 17:13.49 | cb22 | thomasg, no clue unfortunatly |
| 17:14.17 | cb22 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootcharts |
| 17:14.30 | cb22 | thomasg, do you mean like /etc/init.d/S??something ? |
| 17:14.36 | cb22 | in that case, yes |
| 17:15.42 | thomasg | no, that's not what I mean |
| 17:16.02 | thomasg | e.g. gentoo uses a advanced sysVinit with parallel-bootup options and so on |
| 17:17.10 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 17:17.37 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[Away (n=Brescia@adsl-113-186.37-151.net24.it) |
| 17:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko cyphi_ (n=cyphi@a91-153-115-158.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:22.46 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 17:27.50 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 17:29.09 | mwester | unique: The boot is far from optimal - there are huge opportunities for speedup in almost every area. |
| 17:30.12 | unique | mwester: that's good to hear... I'm confident this will be done in future |
| 17:31.52 | cesarb | The current boot time is sort of an upper bound then... |
| 17:31.54 | mwester | Yep - future work. We need to get it all working first. But there are a few really simple things we can do right now that would help a lot. e.g. there's no need to start avahi-daemon at all. |
| 17:32.47 | mwester | Removing the time delays in /etc/init.d/gsmd will also get back a few free seconds, and the delays only make matters worse with gsmd, as it turns out. |
| 17:33.21 | cesarb | mwester: well, one of the advantages of the whole stack being open is that, if someone feels strongly about the boot time, they can fix it themselves |
| 17:33.31 | cesarb | mwester: not everybody can hack on gsmd ;-) |
| 17:33.36 | mwester | We can also defer the mounting of the SD card (unless some flag indicates that a dependency has been introduced). |
| 17:35.44 | unique | will the neo be fast enough for scumm-vm or other games? does it have a 3d co-cpu ? |
| 17:35.53 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:35.57 | SpeedEvil | this version |
| 17:36.01 | SpeedEvil | yes, next |
| 17:36.33 | mjr | people have been running scummvm on the current gta01 as well, though; I don't know how fast it is |
| 17:36.46 | mjr | but scummvm shouldn't really require that much |
| 17:37.18 | unique | mjr: I mean the gta02v3 or how the mass market version is called |
| 17:38.05 | unique | It says faster cpu (Samsung 2442 SoC) but nothing specific |
| 17:38.14 | SpeedEvil | read again |
| 17:38.27 | SpeedEvil | there is a 3d accel chip |
| 17:39.05 | crackfiend | Is the mass market version still on track for an October release? |
| 17:39.23 | unique | SpeedEvil: that is really nice |
| 17:39.30 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 17:39.35 | SpeedEvil | December |
| 17:39.56 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 17:40.14 | unique | cant wait to see the final version of the Neo and Openmoko and read the first tests about it... I hope there will be a huge community to contribute with programs and stuff |
| 17:40.51 | buz | there will be 2 communities at least |
| 17:41.15 | buz | the qtopia and the openmoko/gtk crowd |
| 17:41.46 | cesarb | buz: there's a significant overlap between the two |
| 17:41.54 | cesarb | buz: the lower layer is common |
| 17:42.01 | buz | yeah, not saying it's entirely different |
| 17:42.17 | buz | sort of like how kubuntu and ubuntu works |
| 17:42.30 | cesarb | buz: (in fact, it was the qtopia guys who made it that way... they only changed the UI and phone layers, and kept the base framework) |
| 17:42.42 | buz | trolltech is not stupid |
| 17:42.55 | cesarb | buz: well, it's a bit more separate, since AFAIK qtopia uses the framebuffer, while OM uses X |
| 17:42.56 | buz | they know it saves em work AND gets em street cred |
| 17:43.02 | buz | yeah thats true |
| 17:43.37 | cesarb | making a X server for qtopia would help bridge both sites quite nicely |
| 17:43.49 | sandos | I thought there was one already? |
| 17:43.51 | buz | such a beast exists i think |
| 17:44.05 | buz | and there's always qvfb which does the other way |
| 17:45.21 | timtux | To buy a openmoko now or to buy it later |
| 17:45.32 | timtux | Hum, its more fun if it got alot of broken stuff. |
| 17:45.36 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:45.41 | mjr | qvfb, frankly, seems the saner solution, but it's good there's interop options |
| 17:46.15 | buz | it would depend on trolltech getting accellerated drawing layer as well i guess |
| 17:46.15 | cesarb | mjr: depends on which you want to be the "window manager" |
| 17:46.25 | cesarb | mjr: qvfb would make more sense with the OM window manager |
| 17:46.43 | cesarb | mjr: a X server for qtopia would make more sense with qtopia doing the "window" management |
| 17:46.57 | buz | or maybe someone will eventually port qtopia phone to x |
| 17:47.12 | buz | i'm told its not a simple recompile against qt but it might not be that hard either |
| 17:47.38 | buz | if the smedia driver is any good, you'd want it to run against x |
| 17:47.45 | cesarb | It could run as a fullscreen window... should be easy (famous last words) |
| 17:48.20 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 17:48.21 | buz | isnt that what qvfb does |
| 17:50.01 | mjr | cesarb, I don't count qtopia as doing the window management in a mixed environment as sane :] |
| 17:51.18 | peepsalot | hey gyus, haven't been keeping up with the project much lately, just curious how the development is coming overall. I'm interested in getting the second hardware revision |
| 17:51.48 | cesarb | Hm, the qtopia recipes seem to be unable to use ccache |
| 17:51.58 | SpeedEvil | peepsalot: december |
| 17:52.13 | buz | i'm not sure i'd even speak of windows with fullscreen only thingy |
| 17:52.31 | peepsalot | any summaries of the state of the software? |
| 17:52.36 | cesarb | buz: think of it as a set of maximized windows |
| 17:52.48 | SpeedEvil | peesalot: pre-alpha |
| 17:52.59 | peepsalot | doh, still? |
| 17:53.03 | buz | i do. i'm just not sure whether i wouldnt think of it as separate desktops rather |
| 17:53.22 | SpeedEvil | pre-pre-alpha really |
| 17:53.22 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 17:53.22 | buz | hey it does receive calls now ;) |
| 17:53.22 | buz | (i've seen it ;) |
| 17:53.27 | peepsalot | hehe, nice buz |
| 17:53.30 | cesarb | buz: when gsmd doesn't seize up... |
| 17:53.42 | buz | it didnt do so twice in a row |
| 17:54.58 | buz | wow i've never seen xp boot as quickly as a reboot in kvm (obviously all data was cached in ram) |
| 17:57.10 | unique | what is the preferred input method for the Neo ? stylus or finger? what is better ? |
| 17:57.35 | cesarb | unique: depends on what you want to do |
| 17:57.54 | cesarb | unique: for instance, dialing and basic interface is geared towards being easy to use with the finger |
| 17:57.57 | unique | cesarb: *gg* phone-call, write a sms |
| 17:58.19 | cesarb | unique: a drawing application, on the other hand, would be hard to use without the stylus |
| 17:58.39 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485DB5B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:58.53 | SpeedEvil | Depends. |
| 17:59.00 | SpeedEvil | For some things it's quite adequate |
| 17:59.08 | cesarb | unique: writing SMS depends on which onscreen keyboard you are using... so far the ones I've seen can be used with good sight and alignment abilities and neatly trimmed fingernails |
| 17:59.14 | unique | cesarb: of course, I meant for general, daily use. phone call, sms, select an ogg song for listening.. |
| 17:59.32 | buz | cesarb: that wasnt my impression, not for the standard OM anyway |
| 17:59.52 | unique | cesarb: thx |
| 18:00.48 | *** join/#openmoko manyoso (n=manyoso@pool-72-70-74-158.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:01.05 | manyoso | when did GTA02 slip from october to december? |
| 18:01.19 | manyoso | just looked at wiki and seems it has changed |
| 18:01.31 | SpeedEvil | observe the history! |
| 18:01.39 | SpeedEvil | however - a week ago officially. |
| 18:01.53 | SpeedEvil | the real slip must of course have happened earlier and not been reported |
| 18:02.18 | CM | I wonder if part of it happened when smoke was coming out from mickyl's gta02 |
| 18:02.38 | CM | So that they had to make another hw revision |
| 18:03.02 | manyoso | if taking orders ~dec 20th, then i guess can't expect a christmas present |
| 18:03.25 | SpeedEvil | manyoso: that's an estimated timeline. |
| 18:03.48 | SpeedEvil | manyoso: hte only date that's officially been given is 'Dcembter" |
| 18:04.38 | manyoso | yep. which means it is entirely likely we won't be seeing the device in hand before new year |
| 18:05.03 | manyoso | unless happen to get one of first devices shipped |
| 18:05.14 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, i'd stab some guy too if they invented a qweryt keyboard |
| 18:05.53 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-188-024.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:07.18 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:08.21 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@adsl-68-93-114-218.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 18:08.28 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:09.54 | buz | hope dies last |
| 18:10.05 | hhf423 | I mean, the have the specs for the shop ready, but not the shop |
| 18:10.11 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADAEB7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:10.27 | buz | i dont see why they arent outsourcing that whole distribution stuff |
| 18:10.32 | manyoso | say the hardware is ready, but the software is not, will they still ship? |
| 18:10.33 | unique | better a later launch and stable than an early launch and quality problems |
| 18:10.38 | buz | manyoso: they will |
| 18:10.39 | SpeedEvil | manyoso: yes |
| 18:10.51 | manyoso | i'd much rather have the hardware even if software isn't ready |
| 18:11.02 | manyoso | since i'll just put qtopia on it anyway |
| 18:12.46 | cesarb | manyoso: qtopia is not a completely different software |
| 18:13.04 | cesarb | manyoso: for instance, the kernel is the same, together with the associated power management needs |
| 18:13.27 | cesarb | manyoso: (and so far, the power management can be best described as "turn off the backlight") |
| 18:13.37 | bedboi | hehe |
| 18:13.43 | bedboi | cesarb: what about frequency scaling? |
| 18:13.45 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 18:13.49 | manyoso | heh |
| 18:14.01 | bedboi | cesarb: is there any info about that? |
| 18:14.16 | bedboi | actually i still didn't study the hardware of neo |
| 18:14.23 | bedboi | so maybe i'm talking bullshit |
| 18:14.31 | pH5 | bedboi: google s3c2410 cpufreq |
| 18:14.50 | cesarb | bedboi: SpeedEvil has been studying the frequency scaling, but AFAIK the software doesn't do it |
| 18:15.11 | pH5 | afaiu partial patches exist, but support is not complete (every device driver that uses a clock that changes needs to be cpufreq-aware) |
| 18:15.15 | cesarb | bedboi: the software doesn't even disable the sound amplifier when no sound is playing! (yet) |
| 18:15.23 | bedboi | omg |
| 18:15.25 | bedboi | that's bad |
| 18:15.45 | bedboi | cesarb: is it a userspace issue? |
| 18:15.45 | cesarb | bedboi: that's why the battery life so far is more of a lower bound than an average ;-) |
| 18:15.47 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Video_Player]] |
| 18:15.50 | bedboi | or the kernel code is not there |
| 18:15.52 | *** join/#openmoko kloeri (i=kloeri@freenode/staff/kloeri) |
| 18:15.54 | cesarb | bedboi: mostly kernel space |
| 18:15.57 | bedboi | ok |
| 18:16.00 | bedboi | gpio stuff |
| 18:16.04 | cesarb | bedboi: the userspace will probably have to cooperate |
| 18:16.56 | bedboi | of course |
| 18:16.56 | cesarb | bedboi: you can currently disable by hand the sound amplifier (and in fact must do so before powering off if you want it not to completely drain the battery, unless the patch to fix that has already been applied) |
| 18:17.12 | bedboi | cesarb: so the kernel code is there. |
| 18:17.16 | bedboi | if you can do it manually :) |
| 18:17.25 | *** join/#openmoko cb22_ (n=cb22@dsl-245-169-170.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 18:17.26 | cesarb | bedboi: you can also turn off by hand the GSM modem (nothing else does; and if nothing does, it also drains down the battery) |
| 18:17.45 | bedboi | cesarb: but it does not make any sense |
| 18:17.49 | cesarb | bedboi: the kernel code for turning it off is there; the kernel code for turning it off when nothing is playing isn't |
| 18:17.53 | bedboi | turning the gsm modem off |
| 18:18.02 | bedboi | cesarb: ok. |
| 18:18.13 | *** part/#openmoko hultqvist (n=pdh@80.251.192.3) |
| 18:18.24 | bedboi | i mean, this is a phone, you are supposed to use the gsm modem |
| 18:18.24 | bedboi | :) |
| 18:18.34 | cesarb | bedboi: if you want to completely power off the phone, you have to turn off the amplifier and GSM modem, since they are not connected via the power management chip, else the battery will drain completely |
| 18:18.59 | cb22_ | cesarb, i read on the wiki about a backup battery... know anything about this? |
| 18:19.12 | cesarb | cb22_: the backup battery is the PMU's RTC battery |
| 18:19.17 | bedboi | ok, but i mean, you can't count on that for power management when the phone is on |
| 18:19.24 | cb22_ | ah, ok |
| 18:19.24 | cesarb | cb22_: it keeps the PMU alive enough to keep the time and some of its settings |
| 18:19.33 | bedboi | cesarb: the point is: you have to leave the gsm modem on |
| 18:19.37 | bedboi | that's the lower bound |
| 18:19.48 | bedboi | but, you should lower the cpu draining rate |
| 18:20.01 | bedboi | by throttling the cpu speed |
| 18:20.29 | cesarb | bedboi: when the phone is on, you can AFAIK turn off part of the AT command interpreter, and must send a sequence of commands to make it proprerly wake back up (and wake the CPU back up) when needed; there's no code for that so far |
| 18:20.31 | bedboi | yep of course you have to turn off the screen |
| 18:21.24 | cb22_ | it's a pity the smedia chip doesnt have audio support |
| 18:21.28 | bedboi | cesarb: btw what's the most battery hungry part? (not counting the screen) |
| 18:21.36 | cesarb | bedboi: and you have to turn off the sound amplifier when suspending the CPU, UNLESS you want to suspend the CPU but use the sound with it suspended (in the middle of a call is a common case) |
| 18:21.46 | cb22_ | having that do mp3 decoding while the cpu is in slow mode or similiar would be nice |
| 18:22.08 | cesarb | bedboi: SpeedEvil will probably know the answer, but I'd guess the most power hungry part would be the CPU itself |
| 18:22.09 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:22.16 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. |
| 18:22.38 | SpeedEvil | The power usage seems way over what would be expected by the datasheet. |
| 18:22.49 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:22.50 | bedboi | eheh why's that? |
| 18:23.10 | jpcass | handwarmer feature :-) |
| 18:23.16 | jpcass | for us northern climes... |
| 18:23.25 | SpeedEvil | Because what I measure is greater than what is expected by the sum of all the datasheet consumptions. |
| 18:23.26 | cesarb | | /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /scratch/build/cesarb/openmoko/build/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib/libXtst.so when searching for -lXtst |
| 18:23.42 | cesarb | urgh, this OE recipe is not using the cross compiler properly... |
| 18:24.15 | cb22_ | SpeedEvil, arn't data sheets always like that... |
| 18:24.33 | SpeedEvil | cb22_: to an extent, yes. |
| 18:25.13 | cb22_ | what have you measured the neo as using? |
| 18:25.24 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: don't some chips have a feature *cough* where if you put a pull-up when you had to pull-down or vice versa they use a very high amount of power? |
| 18:25.47 | SpeedEvil | cb22_: a wide variety of figures |
| 18:25.51 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: and speaking of pull-up/pull-down, isn't it possible you are also measuring one of these? |
| 18:26.04 | SpeedEvil | I'm measueing current out of the battery |
| 18:26.40 | cb22_ | well the gta02 battery is 40% or so bigger |
| 18:26.53 | SpeedEvil | indeed. |
| 18:27.02 | cb22_ | but i wonder what the increase is like for the 2442 |
| 18:27.15 | SpeedEvil | I neee to crack open my neo, and do some breakdown measurementd |
| 18:27.28 | cb22_ | i suppose it would be able to run with the same consumption at clocked down + undervolted settings |
| 18:27.42 | SpeedEvil | undervolting isn't really much practical. |
| 18:27.50 | SpeedEvil | the PMU is limited to .3V steps |
| 18:27.52 | bedboi | <SpeedEvil> Because what I measure is greater than what is expected by the sum of all the datasheet consumptions. <-- This is not uncommon |
| 18:27.59 | bedboi | the datasheets are always cheating |
| 18:28.05 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: no, it's not. The question is where are the lies. |
| 18:28.11 | SpeedEvil | And how can they be reduced. |
| 18:28.26 | cb22_ | according to the power page on the wiki it seems as if ram is a real killer too |
| 18:28.32 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps. |
| 18:28.55 | SpeedEvil | I wrote most of the numbers in there - I need to update them a bit. |
| 18:29.00 | SpeedEvil | And see if I can break out more |
| 18:29.38 | SpeedEvil | Which probably means cracking open the PMU module |
| 18:29.45 | cb22_ | good luck |
| 18:30.04 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@p5485E7E7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:31.38 | bedboi | I started off being an electrical engineer when I was in college, and after seeing a friend of mine fried by 13,600 volts and 400 amps, which was not a pretty sight, I decided to switch over to the software thing, where I figured 5 volts and a milli-amp would do it for me. |
| 18:31.39 | bedboi | AHAHHA |
| 18:31.46 | bedboi | I love Maddog |
| 18:32.25 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AFF86.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:32.33 | cb22_ | lol bedboi |
| 18:33.40 | bedboi | it's so funny |
| 18:36.12 | cesarb | bedboi: link? |
| 18:36.30 | bedboi | wait |
| 18:36.37 | bedboi | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1999-04-19-005-05-NW-LF |
| 18:36.46 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-217-219-39.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:37.19 | CM | THe whole interview is good :) |
| 18:38.00 | bedboi | yep man |
| 18:38.11 | bedboi | "Most of my best moments have something to do with Susa, he thought. With Susan, or with a computer. Never with Susan and computers. These where the worst moments." Douglas Adams |
| 18:38.29 | bedboi | this is from "Dirk Gentley, the Olistic Investigator" |
| 18:38.39 | bedboi | *detective |
| 18:39.01 | CM | Yeah, that sofa in the stairs was really troublesome :) |
| 18:39.09 | bedboi | ahaha yep |
| 18:39.13 | bedboi | ahah and the horse |
| 18:39.17 | CM | Hehe |
| 18:39.27 | bedboi | wtf that man was really amazing |
| 18:40.06 | bedboi | i love Douglas Adams. |
| 18:40.15 | bedboi | he is so smart. |
| 18:40.19 | bedboi | damn "was" |
| 18:40.28 | hhf423 | "shoot" he says |
| 18:40.37 | hhf423 | so the monk believed him |
| 18:40.38 | cesarb | I once saw Maddog speak at São Paulo... What I found most striking was the way he inserted pauses after every sentence, to give time for the translator to catch up |
| 18:40.42 | hhf423 | and shot him |
| 18:40.44 | bedboi | hhf423: AHAHAH |
| 18:41.04 | bedboi | hhf423: that part is too hilarious.... i love the monk |
| 18:41.18 | hhf423 | bedboi: I believe you |
| 18:41.18 | CM | hhf423: Must have been 15 years ago I read that book. Should re-read it |
| 18:41.42 | hhf423 | I wound the note on compatibility most amusing |
| 18:41.43 | bedboi | hhf423: yep i believe in me and in the openmoko stuff |
| 18:42.17 | hhf423 | "Never hook an electronic monk up to your VCR -- it will try to believe all the ads and burn out" |
| 18:42.56 | bedboi | ahahaha |
| 18:42.59 | hhf423 | but I forgot where the monk had the gun from |
| 18:43.19 | bedboi | hhf423: he believed he had one. |
| 18:43.26 | hhf423 | :-) |
| 18:43.39 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 18:45.00 | CM | hhf423: Not if you have a circuit board on your shirt ;) |
| 18:45.20 | bedboi | hhf423: do you have electronic copy of dirk? |
| 18:45.31 | bedboi | damn i have the italian version i want to read the english one |
| 18:45.37 | hhf423 | no, I have the book in my shelf :-) |
| 18:45.44 | bedboi | damn. |
| 18:45.55 | bedboi | and plus, my book is in italy |
| 18:45.59 | hhf423 | CM: well, I am white, so maybe I'd have less issues |
| 18:46.27 | CM | bedboi: I'd be very surprised if you weren't able to find all of Adams' books in a torrent |
| 18:46.42 | bedboi | CM: i'm not so used to torrents |
| 18:46.52 | bedboi | actually never used that torrent stuff |
| 18:46.54 | hhf423 | did anyone read the new Terry Pratchett yet? "Making Money"? |
| 18:46.57 | CM | :D |
| 18:47.11 | bedboi | ahaha |
| 18:47.19 | bedboi | hhf423: nope. |
| 18:47.22 | bedboi | what's that? |
| 18:47.41 | hhf423 | whats what? |
| 18:47.46 | bedboi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_Money |
| 18:48.43 | hhf423 | with moist von lipwig -- its going to be hillarious, like "going postal" |
| 18:49.54 | morricone | yeah, going postal was fun to read |
| 18:50.58 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A57A9E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:51.05 | hhf423 | I also liked "The Truth" a lot |
| 18:52.22 | hhf423 | ah, making money is not out yet |
| 18:52.29 | mwester | That was almost too close to reality, what with Mr Pin and all. I think Mr. Pin was born in one of Chicago's suburbs... |
| 18:52.41 | bedboi | hhf423: thanks for that. i'll read it |
| 18:53.22 | mikesh | hhf423: it is out - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Money-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0385611013/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/203-1421806-6653506?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190573569&sr=8-1 |
| 18:53.38 | hhf423 | oh |
| 18:53.49 | hhf423 | oooh, and a new book from spethen donaldson |
| 18:53.53 | hhf423 | stephen |
| 18:55.13 | hhf423 | grrreat |
| 18:55.50 | hhf423 | I wonder why amazon can not just send me mail when one of the authors I name publishes a new book |
| 18:56.09 | hhf423 | there should be nothing easier than that |
| 18:56.14 | CM | I liked "The gap" series |
| 18:56.15 | mmazur | Real life rss. |
| 18:56.53 | CM | Have anyone tried evince on the neo? Or xpdf or something? |
| 18:57.58 | mjr | I've ran evince and xpdf remotely as a tentative pdf test, was okay |
| 18:58.10 | hhf423 | CM: if you liked the gap, then you're sick :-) |
| 18:58.36 | CM | hhf423: Whaat? :P |
| 18:58.55 | CM | Angus Thermophyle or what ever his name was was discusting, sure.. |
| 18:59.28 | hhf423 | CM: but I agree, one has to read them all after one started with one |
| 18:59.31 | SpeedEvil | making money: http://blog.alism.com/fake-one-pound-coins-part-one/ |
| 18:59.32 | CM | But I remembered that I liked them. Read those ones about the leper too, but that was even longar ago |
| 18:59.44 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548AFF86.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:59.58 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A55F8D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:00.15 | hhf423 | CM: did you read the "The Man Who..." series? |
| 19:00.22 | CM | Btw, the Otherworld series by him is really great |
| 19:00.24 | hhf423 | which tad williams? |
| 19:00.47 | CM | hhf423: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tad_Williams |
| 19:00.55 | hhf423 | CM: doh, I read Otherworld, all. hard cover. and then I sold them real quick. |
| 19:01.12 | kristian-m | has anyone managed to switch the screen to 320x240 yet? |
| 19:01.20 | CM | Why? |
| 19:01.22 | hhf423 | I had to find out how its end, but the story is slow and we wrote it as if he got paid by the word |
| 19:01.50 | CM | hhf423: all his books are slow, the dragon bone chair too, but I don't mind that. :) |
| 19:01.53 | hhf423 | and I found no new idea or concept in that story |
| 19:02.07 | CM | kristian-m: Haven't heard anyone doing that yet |
| 19:02.22 | kristian-m | CM hmm it wasn't working for me |
| 19:02.22 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AFF86.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:02.29 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 19:02.41 | kristian-m | CM could be useful for video |
| 19:02.46 | CM | hhf423: Read Peter F. Hamilton though? |
| 19:03.06 | CM | kristian-m: For sure, full screen mediaplayer :) |
| 19:03.40 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 19:03.50 | bedboi | is it some hello world application that shows how openmoko UI framework works? |
| 19:04.01 | hhf423 | CM: I think I read one or two of his books, can't really remember, though |
| 19:05.06 | bedboi | s/is it/is there/ |
| 19:05.20 | hhf423 | CM: which did you like best? |
| 19:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko mwester-laptop (n=chatzill@gw.mwester.net) |
| 19:06.08 | bedboi | i know i'm off-topic |
| 19:06.09 | bedboi | :) |
| 19:06.55 | roh | bedboi not really afaik, but take a look at the calculator for example |
| 19:07.09 | bedboi | ok |
| 19:07.17 | bedboi | i'll get all the tree now |
| 19:09.10 | hhf423 | CM: of Peter F Hamilton? |
| 19:09.17 | CM | hhf423: Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained were good, but I think I read some oter ones too |
| 19:09.42 | hhf423 | I see |
| 19:10.26 | CM | I read Judas Unchained in one read, 11h straight on a plane from japan |
| 19:10.34 | CM | Felt totally weird :D |
| 19:11.07 | *** part/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-72-177-114-179.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 19:11.23 | bedboi | where is the svn? |
| 19:11.32 | hhf423 | :-) |
| 19:11.42 | CM | I'm guessing projects.openmoko.org or? |
| 19:12.54 | bedboi | yep the svn of the openmoko libraries and stuff |
| 19:15.07 | aloril | (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: Traveling, Planning, Failing http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/09/traveling-planning-failing.html |
| 19:15.40 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:16.07 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e70cc9b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:16.13 | bedboi | oh stupid me... it was in the openembedded tree |
| 19:17.49 | bedboi | in calculator's soruces there's no particular reference to openmoko ui |
| 19:17.59 | bedboi | so it's plain gtk |
| 19:18.54 | roh | uh.. sorry |
| 19:19.11 | bedboi | roh: btw it's ok i guess |
| 19:19.18 | bedboi | calc seems to work |
| 19:19.26 | bedboi | i want some simple example |
| 19:19.26 | roh | hm... http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/libmokoui2/ |
| 19:23.20 | bedboi | roh: thanks. |
| 19:23.40 | bedboi | so mainly a gtk application should just work |
| 19:25.39 | *** join/#openmoko sladen (i=paul@starsky.19inch.net) |
| 19:25.59 | roh | bedboi of course |
| 19:27.48 | bedboi | cool |
| 19:29.33 | bedboi | is there any way to use the openmoko keyboard instead of the matchbox one? |
| 19:29.49 | bedboi | the matchbox keyb is way to difficult to use (small keys) |
| 19:31.23 | *** join/#openmoko Couga1 (n=KeganRit@mobile-166-214-158-097.mycingular.net) |
| 19:33.49 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A54F83.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:37.46 | *** part/#openmoko Couga1 (n=KeganRit@mobile-166-214-158-097.mycingular.net) |
| 19:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:45.06 | *** join/#openmoko cb22_ (n=cb22@dsl-245-155-209.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 19:54.50 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-32-146-127.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:56.42 | webjames | someone needs to update the openmoko.org portal site picture it's showing the old interface |
| 19:57.06 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@82.50.36.48) |
| 19:59.34 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-32-146-127.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:05.41 | webjames | anyone know if there are plans to have a micro usb instead of mini? |
| 20:07.20 | webjames | and will there be a stage 1.5? with stage 2 hardware? |
| 20:07.47 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@3e70cc9b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:08.45 | roh | webjames no. why should we change to micro-usb? the connector is total crap |
| 20:08.57 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@151.72.85.53) |
| 20:08.59 | drath | mini-usb isn't usb anymore ;) |
| 20:09.16 | webjames | because it's just become an industry standard, and it's not |
| 20:09.19 | roh | drath it is. even specified by the usb consortium |
| 20:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:09.35 | Ghiottone | hi all |
| 20:09.37 | drath | Deprecation of the Mini-A and Mini-AB Connectors |
| 20:09.53 | webjames | roh http://uk.gizmodo.com/2007/09/23/one_mobile_phone_charger_to_ru.html |
| 20:10.07 | drath | http://www.usb.org/developers/Deprecation_Announcement_052507.pdf |
| 20:10.36 | roh | webjames well.. not everyone needs to jump on the train running against a solit concrete wall |
| 20:11.34 | webjames | i'm not so sure that's true |
| 20:11.41 | webjames | why do you say that roh? |
| 20:11.51 | roh | webjames everyone i know has mini-usb in his pockets and atleast one or 2 devices with that already. micro-usb is much more fragile, does not survive dust, dirt and reasonable charging currents. do i will do what i can to protect us against it |
| 20:11.55 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@TheWide.ubyt.sdjls.uniba.sk) |
| 20:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko shenki (n=joel@crank.laptop.org) |
| 20:12.42 | roh | webjames i say that out of the practical experience as someone who uses equipment every day and lives with people who need atleaqst one new notebook keyboard per year due to wear-out. |
| 20:12.53 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 20:13.00 | drath | guess lack of certification won't be a problem for the current neo, because its usb wont be certified anyway, but i suppose mass-market devices without a usb logo might be a problem |
| 20:13.02 | mwester-laptop | roh: surely the manufacturers would have similar concerns. How then did this come to be, if it's as bad as all that? |
| 20:13.14 | roh | and yes i do use my equipment outside of clean-rooms. e.g. while camping. |
| 20:13.37 | webjames | i mean, it's been tested and performs better than mini |
| 20:14.03 | mwester-laptop | You're not supposed to use the USB cable for stringing fish or hold up tent poles. |
| 20:14.25 | roh | mwester-laptop just look at the socket and tell me how it should survive even minimal mechanical stress, some sand or even 500mA current. don't think about one amp for changing with a external pocket-charger |
| 20:15.05 | roh | mwester-laptop i don't care what people in suits tell me what to do. i see what happens when you use stuff and are not ready to force stupid limitations on the users |
| 20:15.20 | mwester-laptop | My observational skills are limited, I rely on engineers to test things like that :)P |
| 20:15.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Supported_microSD_cards]] [[User:Roh]] |
| 20:15.51 | webjames | china has just accepted it as well: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200612/19/eng20061219_334047.html |
| 20:16.02 | roh | mwester-laptop i have an electric bike which runs of lead-gel batterys.. believe me.. current is evil for connectors ;) |
| 20:16.16 | mwester-laptop | 500ma is plenty for phones. |
| 20:16.45 | mwester-laptop | I don't like my phone to double as a handwarmer just so I can fully charge it in 10 minutes. |
| 20:16.47 | roh | mwester-laptop its the minimum for reasonable chargetimes. but a lot of these devices can also use 1amp with a fitting charger |
| 20:17.25 | roh | webjames china has specified usb, but not the explicit socket. atleast ive not seen a reasonable spec yet |
| 20:18.52 | mwester-laptop | roh: I see you feel strongly - that's a good thing. I travel for business a lot, and anything that can reduce the tangle of chargers and cables I am forced to carry by manufacturers who all try to tell me that its for my own good, well, it's a good thing. |
| 20:19.13 | mwester-laptop | I can carry a micro-mini adaptor, as long as I can carry only a single charging device. |
| 20:19.35 | mwester-laptop | Or better yet, plug into one of the many USB chargers that are appearing in business centers and airports. |
| 20:20.03 | mwester-laptop | Long live standardization on things (like chargers and cables) that should be commodities! |
| 20:20.39 | webjames | mwester-laptop: that's what it's meant to stop, you have one lead. you could even take spares roh |
| 20:21.11 | roh | mwester-laptop i see it pragmatic. we could change stuff, but not for gta02. if we want to is still not discussed. but my standpoint is and will be to use the most accepted, most usable and mechanically most solid one. that is currently mini-usb. eventually we would go the mini-ab way when we really implement otg (not decided or discussed yet also) |
| 20:21.59 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:22.07 | roh | besides that. even motorola got the message, long before the chinese call for usb-charging and also uses the same connector as we do |
| 20:22.59 | mwester-laptop | I'm all for pragmatic, and I certainly hope that we don't slow the gta02 for that. But a choice based on sound engineering makes sense, and I can't reject the micro until there's more field experience or engineering data. |
| 20:23.09 | roh | nokia on the contrary still is totally braindead. they have also a mini-usb on the new communicator, but can only charge via their own (now also changed) stuff which means it discharges, even while connected to a computer |
| 20:23.39 | sandos | roh: yeah, thats brainddea. gf ha s aNokia 5300 with a mini-usb that doesnt charge |
| 20:23.41 | webjames | roh, that is daft |
| 20:23.42 | roh | mwester-laptop gta02 external case design is fixed. so i can assure you the connector will not change |
| 20:23.50 | mwester-laptop | Good |
| 20:23.59 | DukeOfURL | what is the ipkg install command for webkit? |
| 20:24.22 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 20:24.25 | webjames | i'm sure with a soldering iron you could change it |
| 20:24.36 | DukeOfURL | I've done 'make build-package-webkit-gtk' |
| 20:24.39 | mwester-laptop | BTW, one of my motorola phones shipped with a right-angle mini-B adaptor -- I cannot find that anywhere, and it would reduce the stress on my tethered gta01 -- anyone know where to find such an item? |
| 20:24.39 | roh | webjames nope. will not fit mechanical |
| 20:24.41 | bedboi | should i inherit from openmoko if i use the kinetic scrolling? |
| 20:25.49 | roh | ive not seen angled ones. but i have an moto charger here which i got with my razr v3i. thats the sort of 'standardized mobile phone power cord' which i really would like to see more |
| 20:26.15 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: I can get you the code number for you to search |
| 20:26.28 | mwester-laptop | cesarb: that would be good. |
| 20:28.06 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: SKN6182A |
| 20:28.13 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:28.15 | mwester-laptop | Thanks |
| 20:28.15 | roh | hm.. htc seems also to use mini-usb |
| 20:28.38 | roh | need to get some chargers from all these manufs and find out the idpin resistors.. |
| 20:28.44 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: just had to get my razr box and check all the small plastic bags on google until I found the right one ;-) |
| 20:29.00 | cesarb | (each one has a code for the piece which came on it) |
| 20:30.51 | cesarb | roh: no need to play with id pin resistors, just check for the short between D+ and D- |
| 20:31.03 | cesarb | roh: see the new usb battery charging specification for how |
| 20:31.38 | roh | cesarb ignore that spec. its new and not implemented everywhere. besides that we will not change the hardware to be able to detect the short |
| 20:31.44 | roh | atleast not for gta02 |
| 20:32.11 | cesarb | roh: if I read that specification correctly, doing the short is very common... (I know moto does it) |
| 20:32.19 | roh | cesarb i know that motorola has another resistor than we do, and than htc has. i just need to measure them |
| 20:32.51 | roh | cesarb moto does it longer than the spec exists, so i assume theyve written it |
| 20:34.01 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:34.06 | cesarb | roh: the problem is that the resistor on ID pin trick is also used for other things (like headsets or car adapters), and if the value used for chargers by one manufacturer is the value used for headsets on other manufacturer, you cannot use the ID pin as a means of detection... |
| 20:34.07 | mwester-laptop | That's the smart thing to do, if you can -- do it first, and write the spec... |
| 20:35.18 | roh | cesarb yes. but its not a problem since you can detect external connected voltage and the value. there are a lot different ones. and they are usually 1% tolerance specified |
| 20:35.38 | mwester-laptop | What is the purpose of the resistor then? Is it for more than just to determine the 100ma vs 500ma thing? |
| 20:36.02 | roh | mwester-laptop yes. basically. |
| 20:36.26 | roh | it also is used with different values fo the other 10-12 modes the socket can do (on motos) |
| 20:37.00 | mwester-laptop | Ah, ok - so that's how the razr tells if the earplugs are inserted vs the charger. |
| 20:37.26 | roh | they also have some high-voltage programming mode, a serial, audio for headset, audio for stereo headset and other stuff on there. all differenciated by short on d+ d- and/or resistor values |
| 20:38.02 | roh | ive not found a sane spec about that but you can find some service.manuals/schems with the info on google *couch* |
| 20:38.23 | roh | dunno where 3rd party equipment manufs get their specs |
| 20:38.33 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=hellvis@p54B13B8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:38.45 | roh | mwester: nope. the scheme is only partial the right thing to do. |
| 20:39.52 | mwester-laptop | But if there are no existing standards, doesn't it make sense to use the same as one of the larger players, so as to capitalize on the third-party accessories? |
| 20:40.32 | cesarb | There's also CEA-936-A, which manages to do even more bizarre things (serial over USB cable...) |
| 20:40.53 | roh | mwester: as i said it does not fit |
| 20:41.39 | Jiten | would it cause additional delays to switch the connector? or is there some other reason? |
| 20:43.21 | cesarb | roh: can GTA01/02 read the precise ID pin voltage, and add a pull-up to measure the resistence? |
| 20:43.35 | mwester-laptop | roh: that's why I mentioned > gta02... |
| 20:45.11 | mwester-laptop | Of course, I would prefer the 2.5mm audio jack in addition to the USB, rather than a single "does-everything-but-only-one-at-a-time" USB+ connector... |
| 20:45.43 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:45.52 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:46.57 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:48.02 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-248-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:50.09 | aloril | btw.. how many bluetooth devices GTA01B_v04 can do at same time? |
| 20:51.52 | roh | mwester: i don't see any reson right now to change to a moto scheme, which does need a lot of parts and thus is not cheap |
| 20:52.14 | roh | and ack. i want to have a 3.5mm jack in addition to the usb, not shared ones |
| 20:52.51 | aloril | what about 2 usb sockets? |
| 20:52.53 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E7D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:52.55 | roh | cesarb i wouldnt say precise and ive not tested it yet, but atleast gta02 should be able to measure the idpin |
| 20:53.04 | roh | aloril: too big. and whatfor |
| 20:53.07 | cb22 | roh, was that 'a 3.5mm jack' a leak that we are going to have 3.5mm jacks for gta02 or just a slip of the toung :) |
| 20:53.29 | roh | cb22 no. gta02 will have no casechanges as i said. so 2.5mm jack. |
| 20:54.03 | roh | cb22 but lateron we hopefully can get space for a 3.5mm jack. its more stable (mechanically) and you can get more high-quality headphones |
| 20:54.12 | cb22 | yeah |
| 20:54.29 | roh | cb22: besides that.. nothing is decided yet for post gta02 |
| 20:54.30 | cesarb | Hm, it's quite interesting that they deprecated mini-A and mini-AB so easily? Must it be because nobody actually used them? And, if so, what makes they think people will use micro-A and micro-AB? |
| 20:54.32 | aloril | roh: well.. 2.5mm/3.5mm audio jacket is probably better than second usb jacket, but then if there was 2, you could use 2 different usb devices (just like PC) |
| 20:54.35 | cb22 | do you think that the gta02's will be ready for christmas? |
| 20:55.16 | roh | cesarb thats bullshit. motorola hast them in every phone. all the usb equipment i have here which could not get a usb-b socket due to size has mini-usb |
| 20:55.33 | cesarb | roh: I said -A and -AB, not -B |
| 20:55.46 | roh | aloril nope. would not make sense much. besides that usb-host is short time only |
| 20:55.48 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@c-69-143-234-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:56.02 | roh | aloril at 100ma 5V the battery drains rather quickly |
| 20:56.06 | cesarb | aloril: there's no need at all for two A-side USB plugs... since you can simply use a hub. |
| 20:56.13 | roh | cb22 dunno. i hope so |
| 20:56.27 | aloril | cesarb: yeah |
| 20:57.24 | cesarb | aloril: and in fact most of the use-cases of the host USB on the neo can also be used via bluetooth, except if you want power |
| 20:57.39 | cesarb | aloril: headset? bluetooth. keyboard? bluetooth. mouse? bluetooth |
| 20:57.41 | aloril | roh: I would say: audio jacket + usb > 2*usb > 1*usb only ;-) |
| 20:58.23 | cesarb | aloril: I'd think that, if you didn't have to recharge the neo (and use uboot), it could all be done via bluetooth... |
| 20:59.02 | cesarb | (I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here; my keyboards/mouse are all wired USB) |
| 21:00.19 | *** join/#openmoko bren (n=bren@79-73-245-75.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:00.35 | mwester-laptop | There's fortune and fame waiting for the person who comes up with the energy source these devices really need - small, light, super-high capacity, capable of fast charge, and non-explosive. |
| 21:01.01 | mwester-laptop | Then bluetooth becomes a much better solution for many options. |
| 21:01.30 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno- (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 21:03.33 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5448B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:03.42 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: "non-explosive" being the particularly hard bit :D |
| 21:04.24 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: the standard answer is "supercapacitors". It has been the standard answer for several years so far. |
| 21:05.28 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.169.149) |
| 21:05.44 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: fast charge is a false requirement; just make it hot-swappable, and one can let it charging while the device is being used with another one |
| 21:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 21:09.31 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c-68-35-124-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 21:09.33 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484D9CD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:14.56 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno- (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 21:15.07 | roh | hm.. in http://uk.gizmodo.com/2007/09/23/one_mobile_phone_charger_to_ru.html they reference the OMTP .. i cannot find them |
| 21:15.28 | roh | also they write "Like mini-USB, micro USB also allows mobile phones to be charged from PCs but is a lot more durable.-Martin Lynch" |
| 21:15.54 | roh | this -Martin Lynch does not seem to be someone who knows what connectors are which.. |
| 21:18.53 | roh | ah.. omtp.org... hm.. does not look as 'most of the industrie' nor as if they have support in asian companies... |
| 21:19.19 | zecke | OT: http://pidgin.im/~seanegan/webkit6.gif |
| 21:20.51 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADAEB7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:22.01 | cesarb | roh: unless there's some real advantage to micro-USB, there is no real reason to use it except on really small phones |
| 21:22.08 | cesarb | the neo is NOT a really small phone ;-) |
| 21:24.07 | ajmitch | the neo could be used as a blunt weapon |
| 21:24.54 | roh | cesarb ive just browsed the linked document there.. and it seems they either confused micro and mini totally or have messed up their definitions |
| 21:25.35 | roh | cesarb besides that the consortium exists from the not-implementors of sane usb connectivity and carriers who want have more unified external equipment (carkits and so on) |
| 21:26.02 | mwester-laptop | roh: standard have been hijacked before |
| 21:26.33 | roh | so.. in the end.. they are neither usb.org nor do they represent the majority of handset producing companys.. will see.. but i really have problems taking these guys seriously considered all the facts |
| 21:27.11 | roh | cesarb as longs as moto does mini-usb even in the razrs i thinkg small phones do not need micro ;) |
| 21:27.16 | mwester-laptop | The real issue will be firstly will the industry take them seriously, and secondly will the consumer take them seriously. What we think is not even on the list, in the end. |
| 21:28.08 | cesarb | roh: there are thinner phones than the razr (but I'd guess they can also use mini-usb... the limiting factor is the size of the GSM antenna) |
| 21:29.29 | mwester-laptop | I've been wondering when someone will create the "component" |
| 21:29.43 | mwester-laptop | device - much like the component audio/video systems |
| 21:30.01 | roh | ok.. usb.org has revised the usb-otg spec (not that ive seen real devices using it) |
| 21:30.05 | mwester-laptop | separate packages for the gsm modem, the audio system, the dialer, etc. |
| 21:30.28 | roh | and it basically says: mini-usb-b stays, mini-ab and mini-a goes and will not recieve cert. from now on. |
| 21:33.18 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:34.05 | mwester-laptop | BTW, has the libmokoui2 problem been sorted yet -- do current builds generate working images again? |
| 21:35.10 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177770446.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:40.33 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu_ (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 21:50.26 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:59.28 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 21:59.31 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_ (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 22:08.05 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A54A05.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:12.51 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@207.105.81.202) |
| 22:15.47 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 22:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:17.43 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:18.52 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:19.26 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:26.05 | roh | *sigh* .,. i should have known better... |
| 22:26.26 | *** part/#openmoko manyoso (n=manyoso@pool-72-70-74-158.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:26.29 | roh | and made that 'no oscommerce please' point more prominent at start |
| 22:27.59 | Elrond | roh - *ping* |
| 22:28.12 | *** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:28.24 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:28.54 | roh | pong |
| 22:29.43 | Elrond | roh - Where you able to reproduce bug #567 on any of your hw? |
| 22:30.49 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54951169.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:35.42 | *** join/#openmoko arndot (n=arndot@dslb-084-061-176-177.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:37.43 | roh | Elrond nope.. but i also did not try... |
| 22:37.51 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:38.34 | roh | Elrond will do somewhere this week.. i also think its a bad idea to have mmc compiled in fix.. i do not boot from mmc and it takes a lot time to detect it |
| 22:39.55 | Elrond | roh - Well, mmc shouldn't hurt? |
| 22:40.47 | roh | mmc hurts boot time big |
| 22:40.53 | roh | some seconds. |
| 22:40.56 | roh | which is a lot |
| 22:41.30 | roh | same as ide or scsi does also.. detecting takes time. that could be done later, async while booting the rest |
| 22:42.06 | Elrond | Ahh. :-) |
| 22:42.13 | Elrond | Well, I don't care about boot times. :) |
| 22:42.24 | *** join/#openmoko Madnis_ (n=matt@ppp-69-233-107-186.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 22:42.46 | roh | Elrond what ive seen is that the mmc driver detects and looses the mmc all the time, about every one or 2 seconds.. but i need to recheck that with a current build |
| 22:43.21 | roh | that was some time after mmc was fixed (ioerrors) and sdhc was successfully tested.. could be as well be a regression |
| 22:43.34 | roh | eventually even combined with the move from module to compiled in |
| 22:44.24 | Elrond | BTW: Why is fat compiled in? (I think, it is) |
| 22:46.27 | roh | because you would need it to read the sd |
| 22:46.33 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A54A05.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:46.36 | roh | when its not ext |
| 22:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko a__thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:52.24 | Elrond | Well, fat would not be able to hold a rootfs or something like that. So "boot from fat" is not an option. So you need to have your root somewhere else anyway. Which means: You could put the fat module _there_. |
| 22:53.04 | roh | could.. yes.. |
| 22:53.58 | roh | we'll see what combinations make sense in the end. thats all just 'put that way' for some reason, not genuine designed after careful surveys |
| 22:54.27 | Elrond | Yeah, no problem. |
| 22:54.41 | Elrond | As I said: I don't care a lot for boot speed or "super lite kernels". |
| 22:54.54 | Elrond | 128MB RAM is a lot, I like _that_ a lot. :-) |
| 22:55.21 | Elrond | half a week ago, I used the RAM to make a backup of the rootfs. :-) |
| 22:55.33 | Elrond | dd if=/dev/mtd4 of=/tmp/rootfs.bin |
| 22:55.59 | Elrond | host$ scp -p fon:/tmp/rootfs.bin /export/backup/rootfs-$date.jffs2 |
| 22:56.25 | Elrond | (of course I had to hard-reboot after that, because the fs was not available, you know, bug above.) |
| 22:57.50 | Madnis_ | is it ok to go ahead and compile qemu with gcc4.0? |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 22:58.21 | Elrond | Madnis_ - Use 4.1, if you want 4.x |
| 22:58.39 | *** join/#openmoko Hokky (n=Hokky@195.1.22.166) |
| 22:59.19 | roh | Madnis_ does not work. |
| 22:59.26 | Madnis_ | the mokomakefile is failing because qemu is asking for 3.x |
| 22:59.39 | Madnis_ | so bad idea to force it? |
| 22:59.46 | roh | Madnis_ qemu needs a 3.x gcc |
| 23:00.08 | Madnis_ | gotcha |
| 23:00.40 | roh | gcc 4 generates differend binarys and qemu depends on gcc3 layout since it chops it up and builds like 'parts' to reassemble with the dynamic recompiler afterwards on execution |
| 23:01.22 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@wikipedia/cesarb) |
| 23:01.53 | roh | so.. there could be a way to use gcc4, but that involves knowledge of gcc, dyngen and some assembly/c stuff |
| 23:02.19 | Madnis_ | lol, little over my head |
| 23:03.08 | *** join/#openmoko sannes (i=ace@har.sagt.no) |
| 23:03.54 | Madnis_ | ok there it goes |
| 23:04.05 | Madnis_ | one step closer to hello world... :) |
| 23:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:15.17 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall (n=josh@adsl-64-123-133-203.dsl.wacotx.swbell.net) |
| 23:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko a__thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:16.09 | *** join/#openmoko Intensity (i=[Ptw9l9O@unaffiliated/intensity) |
| 23:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (i=bedboi@129.24.29.48) |
| 23:35.21 | *** part/#openmoko bren (n=bren@79-73-245-75.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:35.45 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 23:38.49 | bedboi | back |
| 23:44.49 | *** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171) |
| 23:54.21 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f048052052.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
