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| 00:08.40 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: Do you happen to know where on the wiki I can find a list of ipkg feeds? (e.g. yours and ScaredyCat's) |
| 00:08.58 | Elrond | Good night people. :-) |
| 00:09.04 | abraxa_ | Nighty night Elrond :) |
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| 00:11.23 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FIC/de]] |
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| 00:38.43 | mrface | exit |
| 00:38.46 | mrface | oops |
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| 01:04.27 | rwhitby | abraxa_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories |
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| 01:06.48 | abraxa_ | Thanks :) |
| 01:10.25 | abraxa_ | Mmh... Sam and Max on the Neo... awesome :D |
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| 01:17.30 | Jon_yoosic | I'm having some issues getting openmoko to run in qemu. The image will load in qemu and I am presented with an option to Boot or Factory Reset. Either option attempts to boot an image and then fails with "bad magic number" |
| 01:17.53 | Jon_yoosic | I have not been able to find a resolution on the wiki, forums, or google. Can anyone point me in the right direction? |
| 01:17.53 | aloril | Jon_yoosic: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 01:18.31 | abraxa_ | Jon_yoosic: Sounds like no kernel has been flashed |
| 01:18.50 | Jon_yoosic | If it matters, I would be considered an application developer/advanced user. |
| 01:20.20 | Mek | Jon_yoosic: did qemu segfault when you tried flashing a kernel? (i.e. running flash.sh or make flas-qemu-xxx) |
| 01:20.30 | Jon_yoosic | yes |
| 01:21.25 | Mek | someone really should fix that... as a work-around you can try removing the "nand createbbt" line from flash.sh |
| 01:22.18 | Jon_yoosic | I'm an app developer, so out of curiosity what does that line do? |
| 01:22.50 | Jon_yoosic | Also, where does flash.sh live? |
| 01:23.13 | Mek | no idea, but it fixed it for me :P (I think/hope/guess that it is only relevant on an actual device as ti does something with bad-block-tables...) |
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| 01:23.53 | Mek | are you using MokoMakefile? than it is in build/qemu/openmoko |
| 01:25.48 | Jon_yoosic | Mek. I owe you a beer! That got it to boot |
| 01:33.02 | Jon_yoosic | I'm posted the fix in the discussion page for qemu. Hopefully that helps |
| 01:33.18 | Jon_yoosic | Whats the difference between make flash-qemu-local and -official? |
| 01:35.03 | Mek | official flashes a prebuilt image downloaded from somewhere, local flashes your local build image |
| 01:35.07 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: local flashes what you just built |
| 01:35.21 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: official flashes the downloaded snapshot |
| 01:36.40 | Jon_yoosic | hrm the boot seems to have hung |
| 01:39.24 | Jon_yoosic | How do I get useful errors/debugging info out of qemu ? |
| 01:40.37 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: are you sure the boot is not just very slow? qemu is kinda slower than the real device... |
| 01:40.52 | Jon_yoosic | seems to get about 3/4 of the way done then hang |
| 01:42.39 | Jon_yoosic | Wierd, it works now. |
| 01:50.40 | Jon_yoosic | ooh time to get the alsa/oss wrappers out |
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| 02:01.17 | Jon_yoosic | What is the best source of info for openmoko right now? So far the wiki seems a little out of date (I'll try to add when I can) and the forums seem thin. |
| 02:01.47 | cesarb | Jon_yoosic: the mailing lists, this IRC channel, and the wiki, in this order |
| 02:01.56 | cesarb | (there is a forum???) |
| 02:02.14 | Jon_yoosic | Yes. I saw it once and then lost the link. I think it is unofficial |
| 02:02.14 | rwhitby | there is an unofficial forum that none of the core developers want |
| 02:02.48 | Jon_yoosic | Its not very good although I am coming at this as an advanced user/app developer so it is still early for the info I want. |
| 02:04.38 | Jon_yoosic | The forum is not very good i mean. |
| 02:05.02 | Jon_yoosic | Is there some way to shrink the font size in terminal? |
| 02:06.03 | Jon_yoosic | erk nevermind i found iot |
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| 02:11.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[SettingsGUI]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 02:22.14 | Jon_yoosic | thanks for your help cesar, whitby, and Mek |
| 02:22.33 | Jon_yoosic | if you guys are ever near Indiana I owe you beers |
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| 03:26.30 | orzo | hey |
| 03:27.19 | orzo | on the wiki, the pdf file reported to be the manual for the cpu wont open for me in any pdf viewer, Neo1973_Hardware#Processor |
| 03:27.35 | orzo | can anybody actually get this file open? |
| 03:27.48 | orzo | how many bytes should it be? |
| 03:28.13 | orzo | I'm speaking of the "2410UserManual.pdf" |
| 03:28.25 | roh | about 2.6mbyte says my browser |
| 03:28.31 | roh | and it opens fine in evince |
| 03:28.45 | anrp | and xpdf |
| 03:29.03 | orzo | ok, well i tried both of those on my 2.6M file |
| 03:29.04 | roh | dunno. dont use that |
| 03:29.15 | orzo | and acrobat reader as well |
| 03:29.27 | roh | 2807559 bytes um_s3c2410a_rev11.pdf |
| 03:29.32 | orzo | ah |
| 03:29.38 | roh | md5 is 109268084905f13233521ff7df387364 |
| 03:30.00 | orzo | i have 2695885 bytes |
| 03:30.15 | anrp | it is bork |
| 03:30.30 | orzo | well wget wont let me continue |
| 03:31.00 | roh | orzo samsungs httpd does not support 206 partial content |
| 03:31.07 | orzo | that sucks |
| 03:31.21 | orzo | can one of you send me the end of the file? |
| 03:31.23 | orzo | heh |
| 03:31.33 | roh | thats also why firefox does not give a reasonable progressbar and does not calculate the time |
| 03:32.02 | orzo | i suppose it's not legal to host the file on openmoko? |
| 03:32.09 | roh | can't you redownload it? or is your bandwith limited so hard? |
| 03:32.16 | orzo | low bandwidth |
| 03:32.19 | orzo | it comes real slow |
| 03:32.30 | orzo | and pauses a lot |
| 03:32.38 | roh | orzo i dunno what the license on that file is |
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| 03:38.29 | orzo | hm |
| 03:39.31 | orzo | i think it is just my connection to samsung that is so slow |
| 03:39.34 | orzo | it's stalled now |
| 03:40.00 | orzo | either of you mind chopping the last chunk off the file and emailing it to me? |
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| 03:40.27 | roh | http://195.160.173.6/tmp/um_s3c2410a_rev11.pdf |
| 03:41.11 | orzo | thanks, i got it now |
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| 03:43.01 | orzo | hm, my md5 is not the same tho |
| 03:43.14 | orzo | but it opens |
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| 04:55.33 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 05:10.13 | ecloud | CM: you're not here are you? |
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| 05:15.43 | CM | ecloud: I'm always here ;) |
| 05:16.52 | CM | ecloud: Was just about to go to work though.. |
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| 05:48.05 | notserpe | the mailing lists are quiet as of late |
| 05:49.53 | CM | Sure are. The planet too |
| 05:51.35 | ljp | everyones busy using their qtopia-neo's? |
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| 05:52.37 | notserpe | or hacking after OSiM? |
| 05:53.07 | CM | ljp: I am. Really nice work, I'm impressed :) |
| 05:53.33 | CM | Even managed to use up my prepaid sim credits.. ;) |
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| 05:53.44 | ljp | i fixed a few bugs today, so I think i will update the image next week sometime |
| 05:53.55 | CM | Nice |
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| 05:54.18 | CM | I have one annoying bug that locks the touchscreen |
| 05:54.18 | ljp | bugs and workarounds for things that got broke |
| 05:54.23 | CM | Anywhere I can report it? |
| 05:54.27 | CM | It's very simple |
| 05:54.30 | ljp | #qtopia |
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| 06:08.08 | notserpe | i find it ironic and funny that you wrote that trash talking blog post and now hang on #openmoko |
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| 06:10.03 | CM | notserpe: Honestly, qtopia now works better than OpenMoko ever have for me |
| 06:10.43 | CM | I'll probably go back to using om as soon as gsmd works, but I don't mind some competition. :) |
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| 06:12.23 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] |
| 06:12.25 | ljp | it was only your perception that thought it was trash talking |
| 06:12.58 | notserpe | backpeddle all you want. "and does not look like a hockey puck!" |
| 06:13.13 | ljp | if you actually read the blog I said the neo is not the first open source phone |
| 06:13.42 | CM | I'd say that depends on how you define open |
| 06:13.51 | notserpe | yeah. exactly. |
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| 06:13.55 | ljp | and if i said the greenphone looks like a brick would you be happy? |
| 06:14.44 | ljp | so I take it you are against the use of the LGPL |
| 06:14.58 | notserpe | that was a simple counter point to you suggesting it was a misperception on my part. |
| 06:15.09 | roh | ljp i think its really only a question how people define their 'open' .. for most it does not mean that you can run opensource on it, but that its parts are all opensource. |
| 06:15.25 | CM | roh: exactly |
| 06:15.48 | CM | lgpl is good |
| 06:15.57 | ljp | sure, but the LGPL allows closed source products, and that is not very free |
| 06:16.06 | roh | besides that it does not matter who was first. i think everybody should have their fair share in contributing his perception of how it has to look like and let the people choose which open is the one they want. |
| 06:16.14 | notserpe | it allows both, which is freedom of choice |
| 06:16.16 | ljp | ok, yousay lgpl is good, so you must be ok with closed source |
| 06:16.35 | ljp | but you then have a problem with closed source, which the lgpl allows |
| 06:17.13 | notserpe | I'm ok with closed source sucking and existing only in userspace. |
| 06:17.31 | ljp | but the kernel also allows closed drivers |
| 06:17.48 | ljp | which sometimes people get stuck with |
| 06:17.56 | roh | ljp lgpl is not the idealistic form. but sometimes its a neccessary one to be able to create certain software or a product at all. not really in our case neccessarly |
| 06:18.00 | CM | I'm using vmware-server and the nvidia-drives, and they're both working fine |
| 06:18.42 | notserpe | ljp: better do some research on that. |
| 06:19.16 | notserpe | will catch you another time, gotta get some sleep. |
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| 06:20.40 | ljp | roh: sure, but the Neo is touted as a 'free' phone, why allow closed source, then |
| 06:21.05 | ljp | and then bag the people that do have closed sources |
| 06:21.17 | ljp | (not saying openmoko does,) |
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| 06:22.24 | CM | If there was a closed source gps navigation program that was way better than anything open and having good maps, I would be ok with buying it. |
| 06:22.44 | CM | I don't see that any differently than using a TomTom |
| 06:23.10 | CM | Ment using it on the Neo of course |
| 06:24.25 | roh | ljp the important point is that all stuff which is needed is free. thats also why we are not too happy about gllin |
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| 06:26.05 | roh | ljp the other thing is to lock in users/applications to certain licenses. we think thats not our part to decide. it e.g. some company would want to release a navigation-software for it and can (due to restrictions in the license) not release the code to parse the map data they license, they wouldnt be able to code and release that app with gpl-ed libs only beneath |
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| 06:27.17 | CM | That's exactly the way I see it too |
| 06:27.36 | ecloud | CM: I just found OE bug 2928, which includes a patch and it takes care of the libiberty.a problem |
| 06:27.49 | CM | ecloud: Ah, ok. :) |
| 06:28.03 | roh | of course i'd like to see a free version of all the software, but sometimes when 3rd partys and their licenses are involved it locks you in. we want to go a pragmatic way. we don't lock people in by licenses, we have a trademark which still can be used to ensure what happens under the openmoko label |
| 06:28.03 | ecloud | so now the build is proceeding further. We'll see... |
| 06:29.26 | roh | besides that, ljp you should be happy.. that gpl-lockin gets people the interrest to buy licenses from trolltech, doesnt it? |
| 06:30.23 | CM | roh: Couldn't resist a little jab could you? ;) |
| 06:30.38 | roh | which is totally ok, don't misunderstand me there. its just another business-model than ours |
| 06:31.04 | roh | CM ;) |
| 06:31.30 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker_ (n=dkirker@adsl-66-122-77-174.dsl.snlo01.pacbell.net) |
| 06:31.37 | ljp | sure, but the use of lgpl promotes non free software, which most open source users despise |
| 06:32.23 | roh | ljp well, then i have to assume these users never had the pain to live in the real world, where sometimes you get into conflict with 3rd party licenses. |
| 06:33.39 | CM | ljp: I think that closed source apps in general gets developed faster, but eventually open source alternatives will catch up when the market is more mature |
| 06:34.31 | roh | besides that lgpl gives us the feature not to need people to sign away their copyright to somebody else to allow for dual-licensing. less paperwork and hassle (or howdoes troll solve the problem of the copyright which a patch submitted by the community has) |
| 06:35.53 | roh | atleast digium does require you to sign some papers before accepting patches (for asterisk) .. which is part of why it got forked into openpbx (i think they renamed it again or so) |
| 06:36.16 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@rn083002.morris.umn.edu) |
| 06:36.25 | roh | ah.. callweaver it is named now |
| 06:36.41 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 06:37.03 | CM | openpbx? |
| 06:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko archer (n=xydarche@218.194.60.208) |
| 06:38.50 | roh | CM basically people wanted to change stuff on asterisk, but digium did not want these changes since the would link against gpl projects, which would kill their businesscase of dual-licensing it. |
| 06:38.59 | archer | I modified gtk+-directfb_2.10.14.bb and its related file about pango & cairo for directfb supporting. |
| 06:39.05 | archer | when do_rootfs is processing, the bb report that: |
| 06:39.12 | archer | ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for gtk+-directfb: |
| 06:39.18 | archer | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:39.24 | archer | i checked the status file in rootfs dir, there is no libx11-6 in it. i wonder where the libx11 demanding is come from. |
| 06:39.28 | CM | roh: Ah, ok. Didn't know anything about that fork |
| 06:39.42 | roh | and after some piles of changes got bigger and people were refusing to sign over these rights to digium they forked the gpl2-ed release of asterisk and renamed it openpbx. then some trademark issue came up so its callweaver now |
| 06:40.21 | roh | and can to new fancy stuff like fax, proper sip afaik and some things like a real config parser, not fiddled stuff |
| 06:40.39 | CM | Ah, nice. I like sip :) |
| 06:43.57 | *** join/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 06:46.46 | cworth | roh: Ah, interesting. I'll have to see what advantages this might have over my current asterisk installation. |
| 06:48.08 | roh | cworth i think they are still hacking hard on it, but in the end they have already removed some code which was only there because it was from digium, and not because it was good and there was no alternative.. so i hope it gets more stable in the end |
| 06:49.02 | cworth | roh: The couple of times I've dared to look into the asterisk implementation I've been quite appalled. There's some dire code in there. |
| 06:50.36 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 06:51.44 | roh | cworth heh... yep.. but thats why opensource persists. as long as somebody is there who really wants to do better he/she can fork |
| 06:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko emdete (n=mdt@total-communication.vfnet.de) |
| 06:58.52 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 06:59.04 | roh | morning Hopscotch |
| 07:03.36 | emdete | hi |
| 07:07.00 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek (n=ds@fw2.autoguard.pl) |
| 07:07.06 | zdanek | hello all |
| 07:07.28 | zdanek | kristian-m: all you online? |
| 07:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 07:09.36 | zdanek | s/all/are/ |
| 07:10.48 | zdanek | hrw: shoudn't you shutdown computer? |
| 07:11.03 | zdanek | your wife will be mad :) |
| 07:13.57 | rwhitby | zdanek: hrw|honeymoon uses an IRC bouncer. |
| 07:14.07 | zdanek | hmm |
| 07:14.20 | zdanek | I've never used such thing |
| 07:14.45 | zdanek | is it some kind of bot/voice mail with proper message? |
| 07:15.00 | emdete | does it filter and send sms to the neo? ;) |
| 07:15.11 | rwhitby | it's a proxy server which stays connected to IRC for you, and gives you the backlog when you connect to it |
| 07:15.17 | rwhitby | I use dircproxy myself. |
| 07:16.22 | zdanek | so, hrw still wanted to connected while honeymooning" |
| 07:16.32 | zdanek | my wife would be mad |
| 07:16.50 | zdanek | on vacations there's no such device as computer :) |
| 07:16.54 | zdanek | only phone |
| 07:16.55 | ScaredyCat | I thought openpbx was dead and everyone was using freeswitch |
| 07:17.12 | zdanek | but... neo is a phone |
| 07:17.14 | zdanek | :D |
| 07:17.48 | emdete | zdanek: hm, are u shure? mine is a webserver already... ;) |
| 07:18.13 | zdanek | I need brave man to make a package with latest SettingsGUI |
| 07:18.29 | zdanek | emdete: which soft are you using? |
| 07:18.34 | zdanek | i'm interested |
| 07:18.37 | emdete | zdanek: webpy... |
| 07:18.44 | *** join/#openmoko chetan (n=chetan@mail.limespot.co.in) |
| 07:19.03 | emdete | that was already done. it reads contacts, appointment and such |
| 07:19.09 | zdanek | where is it available? |
| 07:19.41 | emdete | webpy.org - it a web devlopment platform |
| 07:19.50 | emdete | ..there is a bb for it ;) |
| 07:21.16 | emdete | my app has all data in sqlite3 but i thnk i have to switch it to eds soon |
| 07:22.14 | zdanek | I don't have dev. environment set yet so I cannot bitbake it, could you do it for me? |
| 07:22.50 | emdete | zdanek: u need python for that an some packages... and u need a app using it. it's more or less a lib |
| 07:23.17 | zdanek | oh, understand |
| 07:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko pr0fb00ty (n=floh@p50989669.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 07:55.11 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3022 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog data/gtkrc): * data/gtkrc: Define some standard icon sizes |
| 07:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db35467.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 07:56.16 | zefanja | hi...were can I change the font size for the apps (today2, contacts, ...)? |
| 07:58.13 | zefanja | in openmoko-dates i have the normal font size but in all other apps the font size is _very_ small |
| 07:58.24 | zefanja | (i build om for Palm TX) |
| 07:59.03 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 08:12.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Business_Development/it]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Python]] |
| 08:22.08 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07DE27.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:22.37 | zefanja | how can i restart the top panel? |
| 08:24.33 | Ghiottone|work | zefanja: restarting X restart that panel as well. I don't know how to restart only that |
| 08:26.09 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 08:27.51 | zefanja | Ghiottone, thx. do you know how to change the font size? |
| 08:32.18 | zdanek | Ghiottone |
| 08:32.30 | zdanek | hi, will you make SettingsGUI package? |
| 08:32.40 | zdanek | Kriss has released 0,7v |
| 08:33.38 | Ghiottone|work | zefanja: sorry, but I don't know how to change the font, other than that of the terminal, for which there is something in the wiki |
| 08:34.26 | Ghiottone|work | zdanek: sure. I'm looking at the sources right now. |
| 08:34.52 | Ghiottone|work | zdanek: it could take a bit because we decided to switch do distutils packaging |
| 08:34.58 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 08:34.58 | zdanek | grazie :) there are some new improvments including mine with proper connection AT command |
| 08:37.16 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 08:37.46 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 08:37.58 | Ghiottone|work | zdanek: :) |
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| 08:44.39 | *** join/#openmoko emdete (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
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| 08:50.53 | berkus | new day, same question: any updates on the shipments? |
| 08:50.58 | berkus | hi all ) |
| 08:51.42 | roh | nope. if i knew i would have posted it. |
| 08:52.18 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f048045232.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 09:02.59 | zdanek | Ghiottone: please drop me a line when package is ready, I have to disconnect, ok? |
| 09:06.19 | zdanek | my mail is bartek.zdanowski[]gmail.com |
| 09:06.22 | zdanek | thank you. |
| 09:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko chx (n=chx@213.151.124.39) |
| 09:15.34 | torpor | anyone fixed libsdl-net yet? |
| 09:20.11 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A56341.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 09:23.07 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
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| 09:25.29 | berkus | roh: do you post updates somewhere on the wiki? |
| 09:25.55 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 09:26.31 | esben_ | Anyone that knows how long time to expect from order to delivery on GTA01Bv4 (Neo Advanced)? |
| 09:26.31 | aloril | esben_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 09:27.01 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2) |
| 09:27.41 | quinton | XorA, don't suppose you're about? |
| 09:27.51 | XorA | quinton: no |
| 09:28.10 | quinton | =p |
| 09:28.36 | XorA | wazzzzaaaap? |
| 09:29.08 | quinton | sorry to bug you, but did you get it working with a UK t-mobile sim? |
| 09:29.21 | XorA | quinton: yes, both PAYG and contract |
| 09:29.30 | quinton | was it a 2G or a 3G sim? |
| 09:29.37 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3023 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c): |
| 09:29.37 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: (_moko_stock_add_icon): |
| 09:29.37 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Correctly load all the available sizes for additional stock icons |
| 09:29.50 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 09:29.50 | XorA | quinton: AFAIK t-mobile dont issue 3g sims in UK |
| 09:30.26 | quinton | really? |
| 09:30.44 | quinton | i think the guy said it was 3g, and it's got 8 contacts rather than 6 |
| 09:31.05 | XorA | quinton: last company I worked for used to do GSM testing, they went to all networks and asked for 3g sims to test, they kept getting told that UK was using 2G sims in 3g handsets for cheapness |
| 09:31.25 | quinton | oh, i didn't know that |
| 09:31.46 | XorA | quinton: the form factor doesnt change for a USIM |
| 09:31.58 | XorA | quinton: they are both ISO7816 compatible cards |
| 09:32.25 | XorA | quinton: my info might be out of date, but I only ordered SIM from t-mobile 2 weeks ago and it works fine |
| 09:32.49 | quinton | hmm, i've been having problems getting the phone to detect sim cards and i just found out about the problems with 3g |
| 09:33.10 | quinton | okay, thanks very much for the info, XorA |
| 09:34.01 | XorA | quinton: the number on my SIM are 147095/278458 |
| 09:34.13 | XorA | quinton: they might be some form of version number :-) |
| 09:36.14 | quinton | mine says 147096/623954 |
| 09:37.03 | torpor | i have a GPRS service here in austria .. and i'd like to test it on the neo .. anyone know if its worth the effort yet? |
| 09:37.12 | torpor | i've tried the qtopia image, but it doesn't come with a browser onboard. |
| 09:37.27 | quinton | was i wrong to think that 3g were the ones with two extra contacts? |
| 09:37.56 | edistar | does qtopia support gps |
| 09:37.57 | edistar | ? |
| 09:38.34 | XorA | quinton: yes, 3G USIM has no extra contacts, but it looks like t-mobile are using the metal space for art, mine looks like something klingon |
| 09:39.01 | quinton | heh |
| 09:39.15 | quinton | okay, thanks a lot, i don't know how that idea got in my head |
| 09:39.27 | XorA | well they do look like contacts |
| 09:39.40 | *** join/#openmoko VUGO (i=vugo@gateway/tor/x-f407e60ff2da3f4b) |
| 09:39.45 | XorA | but ISO7816 is quite clear on the allowed shape of a card :-) |
| 09:43.06 | edistar | qtopia looks really good, do you think openmoko will be able to catch up on time? |
| 09:44.21 | CM | edistar: I'm sure it will :) |
| 09:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-222-063.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:52.37 | torpor | edistar: i'm a bit concerned to be honest. the progress on openmoko has been abysmal. |
| 09:53.02 | torpor | the more weeks go by with buggy build systems and no public releases, the more it looks to me like openmoko is a red herring designed to deflect real development. |
| 09:53.31 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (n=5512ea02@207.250.49.24) |
| 09:54.15 | DPThought | i wish there where secret development anywhere. but i don't think so. |
| 09:54.53 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton (n=vicente@212.166.192.134) |
| 09:54.53 | torpor | my only point is that i wish there was a visible, public person, making the openmoko results more widely known to those who wish to contribute. |
| 09:55.22 | torpor | its terribly frustrating to have to learn that the build system is borked for a few weeks because nobody has bothered to tell anyone, and then watch 9 or 10 new coders come along and stumble upon the same problems, individually. |
| 09:55.31 | torpor | this to me is a terrible way to organize things. |
| 09:55.33 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:56.05 | XorA | torpor: rumour has it OM has hired a full time OE developer, we are just waiting to find out who |
| 09:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@216.239.55.10) |
| 09:57.05 | torpor | well whoever he is, i wish he'd stop gallavanting around and get on with the job |
| 09:57.30 | torpor | i'm trying to push code into openmoko for months now, and for the last 3 weeks, just when i feel like i've fixed things so i can reliably code for it, the build system gets borked. |
| 09:57.45 | torpor | i'm getting frustrated. |
| 09:58.26 | XorA | torpor: he is probably on notice at another company, some companies have long notice periods :-( |
| 09:58.39 | torpor | gah. |
| 09:58.46 | roh | torpor well.. be sure some of the team are too.. thats why we now finally have atleast one fulltime admin, taking a first peek this week and shopefully starting fully next week |
| 09:59.14 | emdete | i think there is alot to do for gta2... that is nothing usable for me now... |
| 09:59.18 | roh | torpor getting qualified people seems to be extremely problematic nowadays... |
| 09:59.19 | DPThought | i never realy tried hard. but the fact that no build ever compiled for me and i was never abel to make a single phone call via gui set my entusiasiasm a bit back. So it's easy to say i have no time at the moment. :-/ |
| 09:59.37 | emdete | and: try to develop for the greenphone and you will be fine with whatever happens here with the neo |
| 09:59.41 | torpor | roh: i'm qualified and i'd love to work full time on openmoko |
| 09:59.48 | DPThought | cudos for the browser btw. who ever did that. impressing |
| 10:00.10 | roh | e.g. we are still missing one admin for the taipeh office who can handle all the stuff we use |
| 10:00.20 | torpor | so you have to have someone in taipeh/ |
| 10:00.21 | torpor | ? |
| 10:00.56 | roh | torpor we'd like to. we now got the best ip you can get there it seems, but still, >300msec is not fun when you need to work on such a machine remote. |
| 10:00.57 | emdete | what does "handle all the stuff we use" mean? |
| 10:01.13 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (n=kwkw@216.239.55.7) |
| 10:01.19 | torpor | i'd be quite happy to work at >300ms if it was actually useful. |
| 10:01.23 | torpor | i've done far worse. |
| 10:01.33 | torpor | <-- used to run an ISP with a 14.4k PPP line .. |
| 10:02.24 | roh | torpor heh.. we know it works, but it does not help if somebody in a building on the other side of the planet has a problem you need to debug. but hey.. why don't you just send us a mail ;) |
| 10:02.42 | torpor | roh: address? |
| 10:02.58 | torpor | i'd prefer to work on code/development full time, personally, but maybe you'll have such a position open in the future? |
| 10:03.15 | torpor | also, i'd be very happy to do developer support issues, documentation, assistance, etc. |
| 10:04.06 | roh | torpor there should be a jobs@openmoko, but i'm not 100% sure. it if bounces mail to coreteam@ |
| 10:04.20 | torpor | ok thanks roh |
| 10:04.38 | torpor | i will send my details off, and at least they'll be on file. and in the meantime i'll soldier on with my new apps for openmoko |
| 10:05.39 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@dhcp-204-131-vpn.unizh.ch) |
| 10:06.13 | roh | torpor we have som queue for hr in rt, so if we get something it should land there |
| 10:06.38 | *** join/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 10:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-182-147.cust.broadway.se) |
| 10:08.03 | thos | anyone using automatic networking with the openmoko and fedora |
| 10:09.44 | emdete | roh: you are from fic / om? |
| 10:10.59 | kristian-m | morning |
| 10:11.13 | SpeedEvil | emdete: he is. |
| 10:11.45 | emdete | (but i'm in his personal ignore filter :D ) |
| 10:11.58 | roh | emdete i work for om |
| 10:12.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Vertical_applications/it]] |
| 10:12.26 | emdete | is it possible to discuss some generel disign ideas somewhere |
| 10:12.26 | emdete | ? |
| 10:12.45 | roh | emdete depends what you have in mind |
| 10:13.28 | emdete | in short: i think of using webkit as general gui renderer also for phone functionality. apps would be written in js. |
| 10:13.47 | torpor | one way to do that would be to put the webserver on board and run all the hard stuff through it .. |
| 10:13.53 | torpor | cgi scripts to dial phone, etc. |
| 10:14.01 | emdete | this would include much more developer as before |
| 10:14.05 | torpor | i thought of doing that too, but it really depends on how heavy/light the server setup would be .. |
| 10:14.10 | emdete | torpor: no |
| 10:14.20 | emdete | torpor: i would like a api from js |
| 10:14.21 | roh | emdete hm.. nice idea.. seen that concept some times on different stb devices. but it does not really fit very well to a phone and would require a lot of ajax hacks |
| 10:14.34 | emdete | roh: no ajax |
| 10:14.38 | _buz | google gears maybe |
| 10:14.39 | emdete | roh: js hacks |
| 10:14.42 | torpor | i rather prefer that it just get easier and easier to write normal C/GTK apps for the phone. |
| 10:14.48 | _buz | ajax IS a js hack |
| 10:15.02 | emdete | _buz: yes, but i have no server in mind |
| 10:15.11 | roh | emdete thats the same. you need to reload parts of the gui to get any kind of interactivity. and that slows the whole thing down |
| 10:15.13 | berkus | i rather prefer that it just gets even easier to write a normal Qt/opia apps for the phone |
| 10:15.14 | _buz | frankly, i rather have python+gtk than js |
| 10:15.21 | emdete | roh: no |
| 10:15.26 | emdete | you change the dom |
| 10:15.27 | _buz | or qtopia, indeed |
| 10:15.28 | roh | on the stb they often used html4 engines and frames to do that |
| 10:15.49 | emdete | roh: no frames. may tabs to run different 'apps' |
| 10:15.50 | _buz | do you get the qt4 "css" stuff in qtopia4? |
| 10:15.52 | roh | emdete still needs a redraw and possibly rerendering of the whole page |
| 10:16.11 | _buz | manipulating dom is horribly inefficient |
| 10:16.16 | emdete | roh: depends on the intelligence of the renderer ;) |
| 10:16.24 | emdete | _buz: as gtk is ;) |
| 10:16.36 | _buz | no thats a few orders of magnitude more efficient |
| 10:16.45 | _buz | just look at your average AJAX app |
| 10:16.55 | _buz | usually it's not slow because of the server round trips |
| 10:16.56 | emdete | sry, i have to leave for lunch. but is it interesting enough to discuss that further? |
| 10:16.57 | roh | emdete i think nothing is holding you back trying it out. i just think it does not give us alot of features, but will make changes to the gui a horrible html and js experience |
| 10:17.00 | berkus | _buz: hmm i will look |
| 10:17.31 | _buz | emdete: you could always stick gecko+xul on the phone |
| 10:17.33 | emdete | roh: there are better screen dsigners out there that are capable of js and xhtml |
| 10:17.52 | _buz | frankly, i dont believe we need screen designers as much as usability people |
| 10:17.59 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton (n=vicente@212.166.192.134) |
| 10:18.02 | roh | emdete you could just use the gtk-webkit component and run that standalone as fullscreen x11 app and start hacking some object-gui onto the js to get access to the 'middleware' |
| 10:18.30 | roh | _buz i think when we start using xul i should buy a firearm |
| 10:18.49 | _buz | i can see uses for xul, but not on a phone |
| 10:19.04 | roh | just kidding.. but i really look forward to having a reasonable browser also on my workstation, instead of firefox |
| 10:19.14 | _buz | i have konqueror ;) |
| 10:19.45 | roh | _buz does not help. its still slow and does not integrate reasonable into gnome |
| 10:19.51 | _buz | now if the konqueror devs finally figured that you may actually NEED a wysiwyg text area thingy in 2007 i could retire firefox |
| 10:20.09 | _buz | roh: oh, i dont care for gnome :) |
| 10:20.24 | _buz | actually, it's about twice as fast as firefox |
| 10:20.30 | _buz | no match for opera, but good enough |
| 10:20.31 | roh | what i would find fascinating is some html-engine which is NOT written in c++. |
| 10:20.41 | _buz | opera mini ;9 |
| 10:20.44 | berkus | _buz: seems like css should be supported |
| 10:20.55 | thos | roh: gtkhtml? ;-) |
| 10:21.03 | _buz | emdete: so there's your easy way to style apps |
| 10:21.18 | roh | _buz but its incompatible with big parts of the web, renders bullshit on complicated ajax sites and is the same buggy when i comes to 3rd party plugins like flash -> does not get me further |
| 10:21.33 | _buz | that's true |
| 10:21.53 | berkus | browser world is doomed. html is last century technology. |
| 10:21.54 | roh | thos gtkhtml is an insult to some degree ;) but aslong as only gtkdoc uses it... |
| 10:21.54 | _buz | for all its faults, gecko at least renders very gracefully |
| 10:22.11 | thos | roh: hm, don't think gtk doc uses it |
| 10:23.36 | roh | in the end i just hope that webkit-gtk will be reasonably integrated with some 'browser' around it which gets the basic features of ff while using the gnome facilitys like the keyring.. and eventually then also gnomevfs will be reasonably debugged and fixed |
| 10:24.19 | berkus | heh. using reasonably debugged and working kde components is a big nono i presume |
| 10:24.41 | roh | i'd really like some kind of single-sign-on via the gnome-keyring. i'm fed up with different keyrings and auth-methods |
| 10:24.55 | _buz | THAT actually works very well in kde with kwallet |
| 10:25.06 | _buz | except for well firefox ;) |
| 10:25.09 | roh | berkus i don't care about c++-code. i find it bad enough webkit also is written in it |
| 10:25.20 | berkus | roh: right. the supreme C |
| 10:25.30 | berkus | kwallet works very well |
| 10:25.43 | berkus | i don't remember any of my passwords except my master password to the wallet |
| 10:25.46 | XorA | C++, that nasty hack written by a guy who couldn't program in C |
| 10:25.51 | _buz | berkus: just like i |
| 10:26.00 | berkus | XorA: yeah! that ugly beast! |
| 10:26.06 | roh | berkus i think thats personal preference. cÃ++ just looks ugly to me, and i never can accept that some tab renders slower the first time just because of some crazy language and its linking |
| 10:26.15 | torpor | hah |
| 10:26.31 | torpor | <--- C and C++ programmer here. got no problems with either. |
| 10:27.55 | berkus | java is overdone. |
| 10:27.56 | roh | i really think lowlevel-stuff in object-oriented C and dynamic languages for non-performance-eating stuff like userinterfaces and logic is the way. like pygtk for the gui and doing all the hard work in optimized C |
| 10:28.19 | roh | or replace python by vala for example.. also looks very nice |
| 10:28.22 | torpor | i don't see why you need to bung a whole script interpreter onto a C/C++ project just to do user interfaces |
| 10:28.24 | berkus | (hint: C++ is converted to C) |
| 10:28.36 | torpor | there are plenty of good ways to do user interfaces in C/C++ .. |
| 10:28.37 | XorA | berkus: erm, not true |
| 10:28.47 | _buz | i can only think of one, really ;) |
| 10:28.48 | cjb_ie | it started off that way |
| 10:28.49 | berkus | XorA: well, to assembly |
| 10:28.59 | XorA | berkus: C++ used to be converted to C, but as of C99 that was no longer possible |
| 10:29.06 | berkus | XorA: but still. there are C++-to-C converters like llvm |
| 10:29.25 | XorA | anyway meeting time |
| 10:29.59 | berkus | roh: this vala? http://www.vala.org.au/ |
| 10:30.29 | roh | http://live.gnome.org/Vala this one |
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| 10:32.33 | torpor | ew |
| 10:33.11 | berkus | roh: oh |
| 10:34.17 | roh | basically a 'looks like c crossed with python, java and mono'-but-translates to gobject C without looking as ugly as doing that by hand |
| 10:34.58 | roh | still relatively new, but it smells like potential for gui and plugin stuff to me |
| 10:35.07 | mjr | ooh, Vala seems impressively perverted |
| 10:36.02 | mjr | and hey, Qt doesn't settle for standard C++, so why should we settle for standard C! |
| 10:36.07 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:36.31 | roh | mjr who cares about standards if the code looks ugly? *duck* |
| 10:36.53 | ScaredyCat | yeah, everyone knows pretty code works better |
| 10:37.24 | mjr | (and that other Vala too was perverted, but not that impressively, really) |
| 10:37.31 | robtaylor | roh: its really a subset of c# |
| 10:37.51 | roh | ScaredyCat sounds funny, but it is, really. people tend to read nice code and learn from it. they also do from bad code, but that does not help them write good code. |
| 10:38.13 | roh | robtaylor somehow, jap. |
| 10:38.27 | roh | i think they are really proud of the lambda ;) |
| 10:39.30 | kristian-m | roh though it is quite powerfull |
| 10:40.43 | DPThought | vala sounds nice. probably a better solution than python for making gtk apps for embedded systems. |
| 10:41.15 | kristian-m | DPThought ack |
| 10:41.17 | roh | DPThought i don't think its quite ready yet for that.. but we'll see... |
| 10:42.07 | roh | i just called it up since most people tend only to know java, cü++,python, ruby, perl and some more.. even if there are really gazillions of sick ideas |
| 10:42.25 | DPThought | yea, i wonder how bindings to other libs work. python offers a incredible protfolio for almost everything |
| 10:42.50 | roh | python for example only makes sense if you let the interpreter in memory and do not reload it all the time. |
| 10:43.02 | DPThought | ack |
| 10:43.36 | DPThought | and with jit and bytecode caching... |
| 10:44.07 | roh | *grmbl* Verzögerung bei der Verzollung |
| 10:44.20 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm3 (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 10:45.23 | roh | hm.. does dhl deliver on saturdays? |
| 10:45.38 | DPThought | roh: i belive so |
| 10:45.44 | cjb_ie | if the sender has paid the extra for saturday delivery |
| 10:46.02 | cjb_ie | by default, no |
| 10:46.33 | roh | cjb_ie its an international corp. shipment.. so it can be anything ;) |
| 10:46.47 | roh | but i'm in germany, so you never know |
| 10:46.56 | DPThought | btw. .njet/mono sound also very convincing to me. It is somehow evil, but you have nice languages and really good performance |
| 10:47.00 | pavelm3 | Hello, everyone. |
| 10:47.53 | pavelm3 | ...the only thing I was able to do is to make LCD flicker like an very bad TV. Not sure what is mechanism behind that. |
| 10:48.02 | kristian-m | hi pavelm3 |
| 10:48.31 | kristian-m | hi just found mokomenu - pity that I havn't found it earlier - nice tool |
| 10:48.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3024 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): |
| 10:48.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Don't ignore 'mode' in moko_finger_scroll_new_full, fix documentation |
| 10:48.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: for "velocity_max" property |
| 10:50.14 | DPThought | ah, i see. vala binds against everything that uses gobject. Well, that could be quite something. *make note to try this out* |
| 10:50.26 | pavelm3 | kristian: There are more nice tools around mokomenu. See pygps :-). |
| 10:50.59 | kristian-m | pavelm3 i will :-) |
| 10:52.12 | pavelm3 | problem is I got used to mokomenu/pygps and would now want to make it somehow coexist with qtopia |
| 10:53.00 | torpor | ls -l |
| 10:53.20 | ScaredyCat | the mtdblocks are resizeable right ? |
| 10:53.26 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:54.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3025 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): |
| 10:54.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c: (moko_finger_scroll_init), |
| 10:54.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (moko_finger_scroll_new), (moko_finger_scroll_new_full): |
| 10:54.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Complete the documentation for MokoFingerScroll |
| 10:54.11 | torpor | what recipe rebuilds the kernel image file, anyone know? |
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| 10:57.09 | roh | torpor linux-openmoko |
| 10:57.40 | roh | torpor eh.. that pulls it in.. also |
| 10:57.48 | torpor | roh: thanks |
| 10:58.30 | torpor | all i want to do is rebuild the final image file (coz i deleted the contents of my build/tmp/glibc/images dir) |
| 10:58.40 | torpor | openmoko-devel-image doesn't seem to do this |
| 10:59.20 | torpor | linux-openmoko: downloading gcc-4.1.2.tar.bz2 .. wtf? |
| 10:59.51 | roh | it looks for its deps, and builds them if they are not there yet |
| 11:00.02 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-185.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:00.21 | torpor | but i've already completed make all and make openmoko-devel-image numbers of times.. why's it thinking the deps are not set up? could it be my use of rm_work? |
| 11:02.29 | pavelm3 | Hello, scaredycat. |
| 11:02.36 | pavelm3 | And thanks a lot for your images :-) |
| 11:02.57 | ScaredyCat | lo .. no probs... working ok for you ? |
| 11:06.06 | pavelm3 | scaredy: Yes, they were the best I could find. |
| 11:07.13 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 11:08.12 | torpor | ScaredyCat: whats the best image from your set to run? |
| 11:08.14 | torpor | i wanna try it out |
| 11:09.05 | pavelm3 | scaredycat: I'd love to combine them with qtopia, so I could get _both_ usable phone software _and_ usable X system (with pygps etc). But it is not easy :-( |
| 11:17.36 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3026 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c): |
| 11:17.36 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c: (moko_hint_entry_new), |
| 11:17.36 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (moko_hint_entry_clear): Correct and complete documentation for |
| 11:17.36 | CIA-23 | openmoko: MokoHintEntry |
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| 11:33.38 | frapzzt | hi |
| 11:33.56 | frapzzt | does any body know when the openmoko gta02 releases |
| 11:34.10 | SpeedEvil | frapzzt: latest official word is december |
| 11:34.27 | frapzzt | okay |
| 11:34.33 | frapzzt | and unofficial ? |
| 11:34.33 | aloril | frapzzt: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:34.56 | SpeedEvil | np: 'In the year 2525'. |
| 11:35.07 | rwhitby | I've always said Nov for P0, Jan for P1 and who knows for P2. |
| 11:35.50 | viq | I saw somewhere a "we're working also on some new models", any word on that? |
| 11:36.04 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 11:36.16 | viq | thanks. |
| 11:37.53 | frapzzt | hn |
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| 11:38.17 | frapzzt | in the german wikipedia is 23th octobre the release date |
| 11:39.00 | roh | viq till we don't have gta02 completed and working i don't think we will have ressources to start development on later models |
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| 11:42.10 | viq | roh: ah, ok. From what i remembered from the message I was under an impression that there is going to be some announcement ("hey, here's what we're thinking of doing next") somewhere around gta02 release. |
| 11:42.52 | roh | viq well.. we could do that.. but were not there yet. |
| 11:43.50 | viq | roh: yeah, I know. |
| 11:43.56 | roh | to make that more understandable.. when i'm lucky i'll get my gta02v2 preseries prototype the next few days... but since we already have a v4 in planning it still takes some time |
| 11:44.01 | emdete | roh: re, do u have some more time to talk about this gui stuff? |
| 11:44.10 | SpeedEvil | roh: so it would be reasonable to rewrite the page as 'after GTA02 goes on sale, there will be announcements of further devices'? |
| 11:45.01 | roh | SpeedEvil i think so. atleast about the next one. the far future is still a bit more in a nebula |
| 11:45.04 | cesarb | hm, the build of theme.edj on the feed is dying with a segmentation fault... |
| 11:45.06 | rwhitby | viq: there is, however, a HXD8 device in the svn respository. |
| 11:45.22 | viq | Just, well, this toy is somewhat expensive, so I am thinking whether to get it ASAP, or wait a short while and see what's planned next, and then decide whether gta02 is interesting enough, or should I wait for next model. |
| 11:45.23 | roh | SpeedEvil what is there now/which wikipage you mean? |
| 11:46.09 | SpeedEvil | The one that was saying 'in october, we will give more information about new models' |
| 11:46.34 | viq | rwhitby: as in system/environment, or as in description of hardware? |
| 11:46.39 | mjr | viq, I think you won't be waiting a short while if you're planning to wait past GTA02... |
| 11:47.02 | roh | viq that purely depends on your cash-for-toys/need-for toys ratio ;) if you can wait, wait.. but there will always be a cooler device in the queue that what is buyable |
| 11:47.12 | viq | mjr: short while with decision, not necessarily with buying |
| 11:47.15 | roh | s/that/than |
| 11:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@nl112-173-73.student.uu.se) |
| 11:47.28 | mjr | yeah, what roh said |
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| 11:48.33 | viq | roh: yes, certainly ;) It's just that at the current exchange rate 600USD is pretty much exactly half my salary - and that's before government appropriates 1/3 of it. |
| 11:48.38 | roh | currently gta01 was mostly interresting for people who don't care about the 300$ but want to hack right away and need real hardware. thats why we released it at all. |
| 11:48.42 | rwhitby | viq: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/hxd8-core.patch |
| 11:49.27 | SpeedEvil | And as to $600. |
| 11:49.39 | roh | for a development board it was cheap, but since its not really a phone to use right now, we were totally buzzed by the interrest |
| 11:49.43 | SpeedEvil | You don't need the debug board for 99.99% of stuff |
| 11:50.00 | SpeedEvil | you can never brick the GTA02 without the debug board. |
| 11:50.04 | SpeedEvil | (barring hardware bugs) |
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| 11:50.21 | pavelm3 | speed: mis-flashing uboot seems to be easy enough. |
| 11:50.24 | SpeedEvil | Which seem unlikely. |
| 11:50.28 | roh | SpeedEvil exactly thats the goal. making the debugboard only needed as less as possible |
| 11:50.32 | SpeedEvil | there is a magic recovery flash |
| 11:50.45 | SpeedEvil | with a sane version of uboot that you can't update without the debug boatd |
| 11:50.51 | pavelm3 | roh: Well... actually it is really possible to use neo since qtopia is out. |
| 11:50.55 | viq | SpeedEvil: hmm, I guess. And it's somewhat likely one of my friends will have the debug board, and there are already 4 people listed in the wiki in my town that have gta01, some with the debug board already ;) |
| 11:51.13 | pavelm3 | speed: Magic recovery flash? I did not know about that way. Is there wiki entry somewhere? |
| 11:51.17 | emdete | roh: re, do u have some more time to talk about this gui stuff? i already play around with webkit. i would like to pimp js to access phone functions. i think the design of this api is importand and could be similar to the design openmoko uses. is there such a thing? |
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| 11:51.35 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: you can easily brick things by adding bogus things to the environment too, does that magic recovery flash avoid that? |
| 11:51.37 | roh | pavelm3 gta02 will have an additional nor flash which holds an known-to-be-working uboot to recover even from a blanked nand. normal boot goes directly to nand |
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| 11:52.26 | roh | pavelm3 and the write enable line goes to the debug port and not the app-cpu, thus without the board and without soldering around you should have no possible way to brick an gta02 |
| 11:52.26 | cesarb | roh: can it recover from a valid environment partition (valid CRC) with evil commands? (i.e. does it proprerly ignore the uboot environment partition?) |
| 11:52.35 | thos | any developers here? http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/libmokoui2/ |
| 11:53.31 | roh | emdete i have time, yes, but i dunno what exactly you want to discuss? |
| 11:53.56 | pavelm3 | roh: aha, okay, so magic flash is gta02 thingie. Yes, that makes sense. |
| 11:54.11 | rwhitby | cesarb: it was said that there would be a way via buttons to make it go to the magic flash |
| 11:54.29 | emdete | roh: :D an api for telefony. java does that (see jsr), qtopia has it. i see a need for a unified api to phone functionality so that thrd parties can build apps and rely on a stable api |
| 11:54.30 | rwhitby | in which case it would ignore all normal flash contents |
| 11:55.24 | emdete | roh: js has something called LiveConnect which would make access to jsr possible. but that would need java. my plan is to provide an api following the jsr without |
| 11:55.42 | roh | emdete hm. stable apis only make sense if youre sure its 'right' the way it is designed. since we don't have a stable api in the rest of the middleware yet that api also would be in flux, atleast for some time |
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| 11:56.08 | roh | emdete you should be able to build a prototype with what we have right now, i think.. |
| 11:56.30 | pavelm3 | Is there place where to download recent builds? |
| 11:56.35 | emdete | roh: we have designers here that are eager to start developing of apps but are bound to html/svg/wcd/js by their skills |
| 11:56.53 | roh | emdete like using the webkit widget in fullscreen with a default url as target and start hacking some demo-api into the js-aÃpi |
| 11:57.35 | emdete | roh: yes, that's what i want. problem is that i can't even use gsmd in a stable fashion right now (i have a pure-c app already) |
| 11:57.40 | viq | rwhitby: thanks, that allowed me to find http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 |
| 11:59.44 | rwhitby | yep, we know exactly what the internal hardware is, but have no idea about the external case or the intended use. |
| 12:00.17 | rwhitby | that's what I find so much fun about openmoko future devices:-) |
| 12:01.26 | viq | hehe |
| 12:01.30 | SpeedEvil | roh: is there any possibility of poking whoever's in charge of the online shop - at least to update the frontpage to reflect current dates? |
| 12:01.41 | viq | And the smaller screen somewhat suggests a real keyboard... ;) |
| 12:02.34 | emdete | roh: is there any interest in wworking together on that issue? |
| 12:03.55 | roh | emdete i dunno. i think yet another potential gui is nice, but i don't think that the current plan to code the apps in gtk will be changed |
| 12:04.18 | emdete | roh: shure. i asked for working together on an api |
| 12:04.29 | roh | SpeedEvil good question.. i can bring that up in my next phone-meeting |
| 12:04.43 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
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| 12:05.25 | roh | emdete since the is only a very basic one yet, i think youre free to propose what you think is best to glue what we have together. just don't think anything is final yet |
| 12:05.58 | roh | such stuff is only part design and quite a big part evolution by trying it out and making it better in a progress |
| 12:06.16 | roh | (atleast if it should be a nice to use and extensible api at some point) |
| 12:11.57 | pavelm3 | Weather is just too nice outside, I have to go. |
| 12:12.07 | roh | :) |
| 12:12.07 | pavelm3 | Bye! |
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| 12:13.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] |
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| 12:20.08 | emdete | roh: good stuff. so i think i continue fighting with webkit. anyway i urgently need hw-acceleration for graphic... |
| 12:21.32 | SpeedEvil | There is sharply limited accelleration that can be done with existing hardware. |
| 12:21.43 | emdete | SpeedEvil: what do u mean? |
| 12:21.46 | SpeedEvil | The DMA engines can in principle be used to do some moves. |
| 12:21.57 | SpeedEvil | and the virtual screen feature could be used. |
| 12:22.09 | emdete | SpeedEvil: if no alpha channel is used - i love alpha channel & use it alot... :( |
| 12:22.12 | SpeedEvil | but the current hardware has _no_ dedicated acceleleeration functions at all. |
| 12:22.20 | SpeedEvil | it's all done in the CPU |
| 12:22.41 | emdete | SpeedEvil: yes, that's my prob. i dont need wlan at all, but graphic accel |
| 12:23.03 | SpeedEvil | what do you need accel for? |
| 12:23.22 | emdete | SpeedEvil: screen animations? |
| 12:23.39 | SpeedEvil | You mean stuff like window wipes? |
| 12:23.52 | emdete | SpeedEvil: my scrolling is much to slow. oon the greenphone it was just okay but screenresolution on the neo killed it |
| 12:24.18 | emdete | SpeedEvil: a screenupdate takes about half a second |
| 12:24.27 | SpeedEvil | horizontal scrolling can be done easily - with the virtual screen feature, or omnidirectional scrolling, with the virtual screen enabled |
| 12:24.57 | emdete | SpeedEvil: i scroll elements with alpha channel - no panning possible |
| 12:25.00 | SpeedEvil | horizontal scrolling can be done easily - with the virtual screen feature, or omnidirectional scrolling, with no toolbars |
| 12:25.01 | SpeedEvil | I mean |
| 12:25.23 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 12:25.32 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:25.39 | SpeedEvil | Ah - if you want transparancy, that gets expensive |
| 12:26.20 | emdete | but it is very nice and a main thing in my gui... perhaps /that/ was a wrong decision ;) |
| 12:27.15 | SpeedEvil | Personally I don't think transparency has any place on a phone. |
| 12:27.40 | SpeedEvil | Simply as it makes the transparent info harder to see. |
| 12:28.37 | emdete | SpeedEvil: :D you haven't seen my app. it makes thinks transparent if they are not active |
| 12:28.47 | CM | Hehe |
| 12:29.11 | viq | XorA: spray some milk on your glasses ;) |
| 12:29.29 | CM | viq: I don't want to think what that would look like... |
| 12:29.50 | XorA | hmm, with three-four neos I can make a Gaming hub |
| 12:29.54 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:30.13 | torpor | XorA: like me and my 4 gp2x's .. ;) |
| 12:30.13 | emdete | has someone thought about using the neo as remote via bluetooth? |
| 12:30.19 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 12:30.22 | torpor | emdete: yes. |
| 12:30.31 | torpor | i'd like to turn the neo into a bluetooth mouse. ;) |
| 12:30.54 | emdete | torpor: its missing a camera for that gps is much too far to walk |
| 12:30.54 | SpeedEvil | emdete: is the background static? |
| 12:30.55 | XorA | map on one, character stats on another, dice roller on another, combat manager on another |
| 12:30.55 | CM | torpor: Heh, that one was new though :-) |
| 12:31.05 | XorA | all linked in a scatternet cluster |
| 12:31.08 | CM | XorA: What game btw? |
| 12:31.14 | XorA | CM: WFRP |
| 12:31.15 | SpeedEvil | accelerometer should work well. |
| 12:31.28 | SpeedEvil | For the mouse. |
| 12:31.32 | zash` | :D |
| 12:31.35 | zash` | that would be cool |
| 12:31.39 | Lynet_ | The Wiimote is BT, right? Emulation ftw. |
| 12:31.47 | SpeedEvil | Can't do wiimote |
| 12:31.51 | CM | XorA: Ah, ok. Never tried that |
| 12:31.56 | zash` | mouse buttons otoh |
| 12:31.57 | SpeedEvil | the 'sensor bar' is picked up with a little camera in the wiimote |
| 12:32.06 | XorA | CM: also play ADND and Earthdawn |
| 12:32.21 | emdete | SpeedEvil: yes, a tiled image |
| 12:32.39 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@nl112-173-73.student.uu.se) |
| 12:32.40 | CM | I've tried ADND, but mostly used swedish games. |
| 12:32.50 | SpeedEvil | emdete: it's probably best to fake that, rather than using generic stuff. |
| 12:33.32 | emdete | SpeedEvil: there is not much to fake i'm afraid, alpha is changed with the animation... |
| 12:33.35 | SpeedEvil | emdete: simply write a pixmap with the transparancy computed, rather than writing a pixmap with alpha, and then having the software have to lookup the base image, and do the transparency for you |
| 12:33.38 | XorA | CM: as I dont speak Swedish I guess never played any of them |
| 12:33.52 | torpor | emdete: no using the touchscreen of course... |
| 12:34.08 | CM | XorA: You've missed out on some fun then. ;) |
| 12:34.24 | emdete | SpeedEvil: the elements are faded out... |
| 12:34.36 | emdete | torpor: i like the gps idea better... |
| 12:35.25 | *** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 12:35.25 | SpeedEvil | emdete: my point is that if you know the base pixmap, you compute the resultant image directly, and write that. Rather than writing a pixmap+alpha, and letting the underlying libraries read the base image and add transparency |
| 12:36.59 | emdete | SpeedEvil: so you need a pixmap for every y-pos.... because the alpha channel is a function of the y-pos :/ |
| 12:37.26 | SpeedEvil | pretty much |
| 12:37.49 | SpeedEvil | it's just you're doing it yourself, and not going through what may be several layers of code to write the image |
| 12:37.51 | emdete | question is if smedia supports alpha channel... do you know? |
| 12:38.10 | SpeedEvil | I _think_ it does. |
| 12:38.22 | SpeedEvil | There is a very basic datasheet linked from the wiki |
| 12:38.30 | torpor | what about turning the neo into a poormans optimus mini 3 |
| 12:38.32 | torpor | ... |
| 12:38.51 | ScaredyCat | Optimus Prime! |
| 12:39.23 | ScaredyCat | CM: |
| 12:39.43 | mjr | good luck turning the Neo into a fucking TRUCK |
| 12:39.55 | SpeedEvil | Willittruck.com |
| 12:39.57 | viq | mjr: with enough of them... ;) |
| 12:40.09 | torpor | http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus-mini/ |
| 12:40.11 | torpor | ^^ this hting |
| 12:40.17 | torpor | you spoon-fed American consumer drones. |
| 12:40.32 | mjr | torpor, yeah that, shouldn't be a problem... |
| 12:40.40 | torpor | little gadget driver love |
| 12:41.10 | mjr | I'm not sure gadget is the way to go (at least if using a Linux desktop), just some client/server doodah |
| 12:41.25 | torpor | using gadget drivers would make it more compatible. |
| 12:41.37 | mjr | true, hence the parenthesis |
| 12:41.42 | ScaredyCat | torpor: isn't the optimus mini charper than a neo anyway? |
| 12:41.57 | ScaredyCat | cheaper |
| 12:42.07 | torpor | i suppose it is but you can't make a phone call with it. ;) |
| 12:43.01 | berkus | go for "Optimus Neo" |
| 12:44.35 | Lynet_ | Kinda doubt it. Isn't all the lebedev stuff in the silly price range? |
| 12:45.20 | zash` | or is it the "for bill gates only" price range? |
| 12:46.40 | Lynet_ | Bill "has no taste" G is probably not in the target demographic. ;-) |
| 12:47.17 | *** join/#openmoko gentoo_ (n=gentoo@59.92.89.68) |
| 12:48.44 | rwhitby | torpor: it'd be a hi-res optimus mini - 200x200 instead of 96x96 |
| 12:48.51 | rwhitby | (per screen) |
| 12:49.03 | torpor | rwhitby: i'm tempted to just go ahead and write a gadget driver for it. ;) |
| 12:49.04 | rwhitby | and you could have six screens |
| 12:49.08 | torpor | yup |
| 12:49.32 | torpor | brb |
| 12:49.33 | rwhitby | that'd be so cool to plug into an NSLU2 :-) |
| 12:50.11 | torpor | or anything for that matter. |
| 12:50.34 | rwhitby | yeah, but most other things already have a display of some sort. that's what makes plugging it into an nslu2 so cool :-) |
| 12:52.12 | torpor | i'm personally looking at a 19" rack full of synthesizers and other music gear that i'd relish the thought of controlling with a bluetooth remote control that has a builtin screen |
| 12:52.16 | torpor | ;) |
| 12:56.55 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 12:57.37 | torpor | whats the name of the package manager GUI on moko again, i forget .. ? |
| 12:58.13 | rwhitby | ipkg |
| 12:58.19 | rwhitby | oh, gui. |
| 12:58.25 | rwhitby | dunno. |
| 12:58.36 | Ghiottone|work | openmoko-appmanager ? |
| 12:59.49 | torpor | thats the one thanks |
| 12:59.58 | torpor | <-- really away now, bbiab |
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| 13:04.45 | Sup3rkiddo | hi all |
| 13:05.40 | CM | ScaredyCat: Yo :) |
| 13:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass_ (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 13:06.28 | CM | Was it about that wireless optimus-mini-neo stuff? |
| 13:09.00 | DukeOfURL | good morning |
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| 13:12.19 | ScaredyCat | no, nm too late anywy |
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| 13:36.29 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone found out how to delete text in qtopia? |
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| 13:37.48 | XorA | Sup3rkiddo: slide right->left |
| 13:37.54 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 13:38.15 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B999C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:38.22 | Sup3rkiddo | ah ok..works, funny it didnt last time |
| 13:39.22 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: The keyboard is a pain to use, at least for a newbie |
| 13:39.58 | Sup3rkiddo | you couls say that....i sent some garbage to my girl and now shes mad at me |
| 13:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 13:40.59 | blindcoder | Sup3rkiddo: name completion did Cinthia instead of Cindy? :) |
| 13:41.43 | Sup3rkiddo | blindcoder, hehe yeah something like that |
| 13:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 13:44.17 | CM | My name became Claws instead of Claes.. Kind of sounds the same if you pronounce it in swedish at least |
| 13:44.32 | PBeck | hi |
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| 13:56.05 | jpcass_ | can anyone tell me how to force bitbake to make modules for kernel 2.6.21.6 ? (default is 2.6.22.5) |
| 14:00.09 | Sup3rkiddo | hey can anyone point me to the images which has zero problems with making a call |
| 14:00.37 | Mek | do you have a time machine? :P |
| 14:00.39 | SpeedEvil | You mean ones that won't boot? :) |
| 14:02.03 | Sup3rkiddo | ok atleast "calling sorta works" images, qtopia is too blocky |
| 14:02.05 | XorA | jpcass_: PREFERRED_VERSION_linux-openmoko = "2.6.21.6" |
| 14:02.06 | *** join/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@c-68-34-134-206.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) |
| 14:02.16 | *** join/#openmoko IfChinsCouldKill (n=IfChinsC@pD955D92A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:02.18 | XorA | jpcass_: but this will only work if there is a kernel recipe with that version |
| 14:03.01 | jpcass_ | XorA: thanks, I think that recipe is gone... i only see 2.6.22.5 in packages/kernel |
| 14:03.19 | XorA | jpcass_: update the kernel? |
| 14:03.26 | XorA | jpcass_: easier than going backwards |
| 14:03.42 | CM | jpcass_: Maybe there's still some old modules left on the buildhost? |
| 14:04.26 | jpcass_ | XorA: yes i guess you're right: qtopia works with the new kernel, doesnt it? |
| 14:04.35 | jpcass_ | Cm: thanks for the tip, I'll have a look... |
| 14:04.35 | CM | jpcass_: Or use these: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/modules-2.6.21.6-moko11-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.tgz |
| 14:04.55 | CM | jpcass_: I'm using the latest moko kernel with qtopia |
| 14:05.37 | jpcass_ | CM: ok that sounds like the best option. wonder why they shipped an older kernel |
| 14:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko vciaglia (n=vciaglia@87.18.152.215) |
| 14:06.13 | CM | Known to work I guess |
| 14:06.29 | CM | Lorn said he'll release a new image next week or so with some fixes |
| 14:06.53 | DukeOfURL | for 'make build-package-webkit', what is 'ERROR: No providers of build target webkit (for [])' telling me? |
| 14:07.07 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D82B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:07.42 | jpcass_ | ok, good. |
| 14:08.00 | vciaglia | hello. Someone used "ipkg update && ipkg upgrade" succesfully? I can ssh into openmoko but i can't run internet |
| 14:08.00 | aloril | vciaglia: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:08.07 | jpcass_ | DukeOfURL: bb file is webkit-gtk, try make build-package-webkit-gtk |
| 14:08.26 | DukeOfURL | thanks |
| 14:09.04 | *** join/#openmoko CrankyDog (n=CrankyDo@bl7-112-240.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 14:09.51 | jpcass_ | vciaglia: have you made a /etc/resolv.conf with your nameservers? without, moko can't resolve hostnames |
| 14:10.22 | jpcass_ | try ping 84.92.40.53 (known good IP address) - if that works you can access the net but need nameserver resolution |
| 14:10.28 | vciaglia | jpcass_: of course |
| 14:10.38 | vciaglia | jpcass_: ok, i'm going to try |
| 14:10.38 | Sup3rkiddo | nameserver 4.2.2.1 should be enough for the resolv.conf right? |
| 14:12.19 | ScaredyCat | basically means you set it to nameserver 192.168.0.200 on the neo |
| 14:12.27 | ScaredyCat | very useful on a lappy |
| 14:13.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Emreturkay]] [[User:Emreturkay]] |
| 14:13.04 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Proxying_DNS_requests |
| 14:13.09 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@131.151.32.221) |
| 14:13.12 | ScaredyCat | I even provide the script :) |
| 14:14.01 | XorA | apt-get install dnsmasq for debian people :-) |
| 14:15.12 | no_mind | w00t! ScaredyCat you avoid debian |
| 14:15.28 | ScaredyCat | it's too easy |
| 14:15.47 | ScaredyCat | a little pain never hurt anyone ;P |
| 14:15.47 | CM | ScaredyCat: Heh, so you're on lfs? |
| 14:16.00 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A42E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:16.14 | CM | That must be for masochists only |
| 14:16.18 | ScaredyCat | hehehe |
| 14:17.25 | ScaredyCat | tbh debian pisses me off, at least the installer dis last time I tried to build for a very small disk... |
| 14:17.28 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-217-219-39.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 14:18.04 | ScaredyCat | I selected what I wanted and stated the install and it happily went on without actually checking the size of what was requested compared ot the disk |
| 14:18.16 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar (n=bflong@216-164-162-139.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com) |
| 14:18.37 | ScaredyCat | 45 mins later if fails because it runs out of disk space... but it doesn;t actually stop on the first failure... |
| 14:18.55 | berkus | ScaredyCat: high five mate, i avoid debian whenever possible too |
| 14:18.57 | ScaredyCat | it keeps going until it's 'completed' it's list of things to install |
| 14:19.05 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-180-177.37-151.net24.it) |
| 14:19.35 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A42E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:20.54 | ScaredyCat | qtopia-phone takes forever to build.. |
| 14:20.57 | DukeOfURL | I think 'ipkg install webkit-gdklauncher' was successful because I see files /usr/lib/ipkg/info/webkit-gdklauncher.control and .list. |
| 14:21.07 | DukeOfURL | how do I start the browser? |
| 14:21.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3027 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog src/moko-style.c src/moko-style.h): |
| 14:21.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-style.c: (moko_rc_style_merge), (moko_rc_style_parse): |
| 14:21.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-style.h: |
| 14:21.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Use bit flag to indicate which engine options have been set (fixes any |
| 14:21.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: options not set in the first matched style) |
| 14:22.33 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-217-219-39.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 14:23.11 | vciaglia | jpcass_: "4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss" :/ |
| 14:23.39 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 14:23.50 | CM | mwester: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 :D |
| 14:23.52 | ScaredyCat | alienware are selling laptops with solid state disks |
| 14:23.58 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-217-219-39.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 14:24.19 | jpcass_ | vciaglia: sounds like you need to set up ip forwarding on the machine your neo is plugged into: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking |
| 14:26.17 | vciaglia | jpcass_: i'll try to proxying dns requests |
| 14:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-217-219-39.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 14:28.26 | Lynet | vciaglia: That ping looks like a rounting problem, not a dns problem. |
| 14:28.30 | Lynet | routing |
| 14:29.35 | vciaglia | Lynet: i've a router-adsl on 192.168.0.1 so i tried to add "nameserver 192.168.0.1" to /etc/resolv.conf and "route add defaultgw 192.168.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0" but isn't working. I still ssh but i can't upgrade. |
| 14:30.27 | vciaglia | someone have the same environment? |
| 14:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 14:31.46 | Lynet | vciaglia: For the phone, the PC is the default gw. The PC needs to do NAT. |
| 14:34.10 | vciaglia | Lynet: you're right thanks! |
| 14:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 14:34.13 | jpcass_ | or you need to set up a bridge on the pc |
| 14:34.56 | vciaglia | jpcass_: now i'm pinging the known host "4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss" |
| 14:35.19 | vciaglia | but "get: buildhost.openmoko.org: Host name lookup failure" |
| 14:36.26 | jpcass_ | thats a nameserver issue, your resolv.conf needs to point to a valid nameserver (your broadband provider usually have several) |
| 14:37.00 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.233) |
| 14:37.11 | jpcass_ | try 212.159.13.49 |
| 14:37.58 | vciaglia | nameserver 212.159.13.49 in /etc/resolv.conf you mean? |
| 14:38.01 | jpcass_ | yes |
| 14:38.07 | *** join/#openmoko thseiler (n=Thomas@195.176.215.27) |
| 14:38.08 | vciaglia | ok, i try |
| 14:39.05 | vciaglia | nothing, still the same. i'm trying with the dns of my broadband provider |
| 14:40.25 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D82B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:40.50 | vciaglia | yeah. It's working! :) |
| 14:40.52 | Lynet | As someone else mentioned here earlier, the default network config should be dhcp client with locallink fallback. |
| 14:41.20 | jpcass_ | good well done! |
| 14:41.40 | vciaglia | so i'm upgrading the moko system |
| 14:42.55 | vciaglia | but i've another problem. When the moko boots i can automatically register with my GSM network. |
| 14:43.44 | *** join/#openmoko [TK]D-Fender (n=joe@MTRLPQ02-1177745839.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 14:43.55 | *** part/#openmoko [TK]D-Fender (n=joe@MTRLPQ02-1177745839.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 14:44.09 | vciaglia | *i can't |
| 14:45.51 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-124-178.38-151.net24.it) |
| 14:46.54 | vciaglia | sometimes the status bar and that icons news "TODAY" disappears |
| 14:47.05 | mwester | morning all |
| 14:47.59 | vciaglia | *near |
| 14:48.30 | mickeyl | hey C7 ! |
| 14:48.45 | mickeyl | ~praise C7 for organizing the OpenMoko booth extraordinairly well |
| 14:48.46 | apt | All hail C7 for organizing the OpenMoko booth extraordinairly well! |
| 14:48.48 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 14:49.01 | jpcass_ | vciaglia: there are many problems in the UI and gsmd... |
| 14:49.16 | vciaglia | jpcass_: i see...unfortunately |
| 14:49.19 | C7 | hey hi mickey :) thanks! |
| 14:49.28 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:49.42 | juri_ | gah. forgot my openmoko at home today. :/ |
| 14:49.52 | mickeyl | C7: anything new from your backpack? |
| 14:49.58 | jpcass_ | e.g.: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 14:50.40 | C7 | mickeyl: unfortunatly not :( |
| 14:50.53 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:51.15 | Sup3rkiddo | does the media player work? |
| 14:55.01 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 14:56.13 | C7 | Sup3rkiddo: kind of ;) |
| 14:56.40 | vciaglia | jpcass_: patching the kernel will work? http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=313&action=view |
| 14:56.47 | Sup3rkiddo | C7, alright, i will reframe the question to, "Does it play sound"... |
| 14:57.16 | C7 | Sup3rkiddo: yes, if you kill pulseaudio it will play sound |
| 14:57.23 | jpcass_ | vciaglia: :-( dont know... |
| 14:57.41 | Sup3rkiddo | C7, hmm,..ok thanks mate |
| 14:57.54 | vciaglia | jpcass_: so we still have to wait to get gsmd 100% working |
| 14:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:58.15 | C7 | Sup3rkiddo: oh, and youll have to create a folder playlists in your roots homedirectory |
| 14:58.58 | jpcass_ | vciaglia: search the irc logs and mailing lists, i remember some temporary work-around that involved something like /etc/init.d/gsmd restart in matchbox.session |
| 14:59.06 | mwester | vciaglia: patching the kernel fixes things so the device doesn't lock up; gsmd still doesn't like to start correctly very often and requires some "persuasion" |
| 14:59.27 | C7 | Sup3rkiddo: and perhaps even create a playlist by hand (http://www.xspf.org/quickstart/) |
| 14:59.33 | *** join/#openmoko BabelO821 (n=Miranda@81.80.236.75) |
| 14:59.38 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-217-219-39.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:00.22 | vciaglia | thanks mwester |
| 15:01.32 | Sup3rkiddo | woohoo..i just played some thing through ogg123 |
| 15:02.35 | jpcass_ | speakers arent too bad are they? |
| 15:02.51 | jpcass_ | try setting amplifier 3d sound in alsamixer... |
| 15:02.53 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.233) |
| 15:03.11 | vciaglia | and... how can i use repositories and add new applications, like minimo? |
| 15:03.27 | vciaglia | is there a wiki page? |
| 15:04.22 | vciaglia | oh, here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Minimo |
| 15:06.38 | C7 | vciaglia: read this (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2007-September/000449.html) to get gsmd working |
| 15:07.16 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-250-183.37-151.net24.it) |
| 15:09.45 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 15:09.53 | C7 | vciaglia: did you see openmoko-browser2? |
| 15:10.17 | C7 | works pretty well |
| 15:10.21 | vciaglia | C7: how can i use it? |
| 15:10.28 | vciaglia | and where can i find it? |
| 15:10.36 | C7 | ipkg install openmoko-browser2 |
| 15:10.43 | C7 | ;) |
| 15:11.22 | shipman | is there anyone working on an app to record a phone call as it takes place? |
| 15:11.29 | vciaglia | i suppose exists "ipkg search package" ? |
| 15:11.39 | vciaglia | i'm really new to openmoko world :) |
| 15:11.50 | *** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 15:13.01 | C7 | vciaglia: you can do ipkg list | grep yoursearchterm |
| 15:13.14 | vciaglia | thanks C7 |
| 15:13.18 | C7 | but im sure theres a nicer way to do |
| 15:13.39 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 15:13.41 | *** part/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@c-68-34-134-206.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) |
| 15:15.11 | vciaglia | -sh: ipkg: not found ... umh... sounds strange! |
| 15:15.49 | C7 | ?? |
| 15:16.12 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-136-143.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:16.15 | vciaglia | yep, i don't know why |
| 15:17.28 | C7 | which image did you flash? |
| 15:17.59 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@231.186.111.218.kmr04-home.tm.net.my) |
| 15:18.54 | vciaglia | the latest one, C7 |
| 15:19.34 | C7 | vciaglia: from here? http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01 |
| 15:19.37 | vciaglia | but 5 minutes ago i used "ipkg" to upgrade the system. |
| 15:19.37 | C7 | 2007.2? |
| 15:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:20.00 | C7 | ah ok so there was ipkg ;) |
| 15:20.00 | vciaglia | yes C7 |
| 15:20.09 | vciaglia | heh, there was |
| 15:20.45 | C7 | im sure there still is |
| 15:21.07 | vciaglia | root@192:~$ find / -name ipkg |
| 15:21.08 | vciaglia | /etc/ipkg |
| 15:21.08 | vciaglia | /var/lib/ipkg |
| 15:21.08 | vciaglia | /usr/lib/ipkg |
| 15:21.08 | vciaglia | /usr/share/ipkg |
| 15:21.10 | C7 | maybe your $PATH is wrong |
| 15:22.25 | vciaglia | i'd like to test Qtopia Phone Edition too |
| 15:23.13 | vciaglia | i'm going to test it too |
| 15:23.18 | vciaglia | downloading the latest sources |
| 15:23.22 | Sup3rkiddo | C7, there...there...what happened? |
| 15:23.32 | mwester | C7: who has your neo? |
| 15:23.40 | mickeyl | some ass buggler :/ |
| 15:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-30-188.37-151.net24.it) |
| 15:24.03 | mickeyl | thief, even |
| 15:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 15:24.15 | vciaglia | qtopia-opensource-sr 11% |******** | 11668 KB 00:05:50 ETAwget: Write Error: No space left on device |
| 15:24.17 | vciaglia | d'oh! |
| 15:24.22 | ScaredyCat | ass buggler? wtf is that! |
| 15:24.39 | XorA | burgler I think |
| 15:24.42 | mickeyl | snatcher, filcher, pilferer |
| 15:24.47 | mickeyl | ya, burgler is the correct term |
| 15:24.58 | XorA | ass bandit in UK |
| 15:24.58 | ScaredyCat | yours wa funnier ;) |
| 15:25.01 | jpcass_ | highwayman |
| 15:25.01 | mickeyl | heh |
| 15:25.08 | C7 | :) |
| 15:25.09 | Philippe | burglar would be the word... or thief |
| 15:25.21 | XorA | but this insult is very not polite to one portion of population |
| 15:25.35 | mickeyl | well... is there a positive insult at all? ;) |
| 15:25.40 | mickeyl | s/positive/polite/ |
| 15:25.41 | ScaredyCat | ass bandit isn't a thief |
| 15:25.46 | mickeyl | hahaha |
| 15:25.51 | C7 | mickeyl: did you shut down my neo before you put it in the backpack? |
| 15:25.59 | XorA | ass burglar is a man who likes men :-) |
| 15:26.00 | mickeyl | C7: no |
| 15:26.09 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:26.09 | mickeyl | C7: by now it's probably out of battery though |
| 15:26.23 | C7 | so he would have a deep discharged battery now ;) |
| 15:26.24 | ScaredyCat | that's autoshutdown :) |
| 15:26.28 | thomasg | tomorrow my 6gb microSD will arrive :) |
| 15:26.39 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 15:26.40 | mickeyl | C7: but he has a spare battery *cough* |
| 15:26.41 | XorA | ssh c7.neo gllin :-D |
| 15:26.58 | C7 | and will think its broken |
| 15:27.01 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__92 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-a4a9b7a51a8e8daa) |
| 15:27.07 | C7 | mickeyl: :) |
| 15:27.16 | C7 | XorA: yeah |
| 15:28.40 | C7 | i still have some hope that someone just took the wrong backpack |
| 15:28.43 | C7 | .. |
| 15:28.51 | C7 | hope dies at last ;) |
| 15:28.54 | *** join/#openmoko DPThough1 (n=tilli@62.206.217.68) |
| 15:29.17 | XorA | C7: hope that those batteries explode when he puts them in his nokia |
| 15:29.27 | C7 | :) |
| 15:29.48 | jpcass_ | mickeyl: how can I make bitbake unpack a file into a directory name different from the tar filename? |
| 15:30.52 | XorA | C7: actually monitor ebay.ch Neo's are rare enough one turning up would be unusual |
| 15:31.05 | ScaredyCat | shame they carn't C4 ;) |
| 15:31.27 | C7 | XorA: thats what im doing |
| 15:32.06 | C7 | XorA: and ill have to ask my provider for my IMEI number |
| 15:32.45 | *** join/#openmoko cakeface (n=ryan@68.236.111.126) |
| 15:33.05 | C7 | just in case someone gets it to work again and puts in his sim ;) |
| 15:33.24 | *** part/#openmoko cakeface (n=ryan@68.236.111.126) |
| 15:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 15:38.37 | mickeyl | jpcass: you can't. if you need that, you need to do something like |
| 15:38.46 | mickeyl | do_configure_prepend() { |
| 15:38.49 | mickeyl | mv stuff around |
| 15:38.50 | mickeyl | } |
| 15:39.07 | mickeyl | or better... pester upstream to use correct filenames ;) |
| 15:39.49 | ScaredyCat | CM: ping |
| 15:39.55 | jpcass_ | mickeyl: thanks - just looking at ckermit_211 as an example which overrides do_unpack() because tar filename != bb packagename |
| 15:40.02 | mickeyl | right |
| 15:40.22 | mickeyl | if it's just one tarball in SRC_URI, often it's enough to adjust S |
| 15:40.26 | CM | ScaredyCat: :) |
| 15:40.33 | mickeyl | S = "${WORKDIR}/<nameofdirectoryfromtarball>" |
| 15:40.39 | jpcass_ | mickeyl: in my case I am making recipe for "fuse" (zx spectrum emulator) but fuse already exists in packages (user space filesystem) |
| 15:40.49 | mickeyl | understood |
| 15:40.51 | mickeyl | in that case adjust S |
| 15:40.52 | ScaredyCat | CM: just uploading a new qtopia image, fixed dialer |
| 15:41.01 | vciaglia | so slow to unpack a 100 MB .tar.gz archive :) |
| 15:41.07 | jpcass_ | mickeyl: ok, I'll try that in first instance, thanks |
| 15:41.10 | CM | ScaredyCat: Ah, thanks. I'll give it a try right away |
| 15:41.11 | mickeyl | np |
| 15:41.11 | ScaredyCat | and that other bug on the homescreen |
| 15:41.52 | CM | ScaredyCat: What was that about? |
| 15:42.22 | *** join/#openmoko cakeface_ (n=ryan@68.236.111.126) |
| 15:42.26 | ScaredyCat | the preview src does't work |
| 15:42.28 | thomasg | hm, openembedded want's to download a file from a https-server - but the nocheck-argument for wget seems not to be set. how could I fix this? |
| 15:42.35 | ScaredyCat | I found some snapshots... |
| 15:42.43 | ScaredyCat | those work better... |
| 15:42.49 | ScaredyCat | had to fiddle with bb files |
| 15:43.13 | CM | ok |
| 15:43.17 | vciaglia | ScaredyCat: you mean the greenphone sources? |
| 15:43.32 | mickeyl | that reminds me |
| 15:43.33 | ScaredyCat | qtopia-opsensource..blah |
| 15:43.50 | mickeyl | so little time before vacation *sigh* |
| 15:44.00 | CM | mickeyl: How long vacation? |
| 15:44.10 | vciaglia | ScaredyCat: eheh, i'm curious to test it |
| 15:44.12 | mickeyl | CM: two weeks Portugal, Algarve |
| 15:44.20 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: you should know me better by now |
| 15:44.22 | mickeyl | :D |
| 15:44.26 | CM | mickeyl: Ah, nice. Don't bring any phone! :P |
| 15:44.28 | ScaredyCat | roflmao... |
| 15:44.48 | mickeyl | CM: now way. bringing electronic devices is forbidden by law^wwife |
| 15:44.53 | CM | Hehe |
| 15:44.58 | mickeyl | s/now/no/ |
| 15:45.16 | ScaredyCat | mickeyl: take heart that people want to dual boot.. ie qtopia gives them a phone now, but they really want Openmoko.. |
| 15:45.29 | jpcass_ | mickeyl: i recently broke that law ;-( |
| 15:45.39 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: i know and i understand |
| 15:45.41 | mickeyl | jpcass: heh |
| 15:45.47 | mickeyl | bad husband, you |
| 15:45.51 | CM | jpcass_: http://store.teptronics.com/hcn1.html?gclid=CP3TuYza1I4CFVB1OAodB2-MDA |
| 15:45.54 | mickeyl | (or boyfriend) |
| 15:46.43 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@247.pool62-37-148.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 15:47.00 | *** part/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@247.pool62-37-148.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 15:48.59 | jpcass_ | mickeyl: overriding S ( S = "zxfuse-${PV}" ) for fuse-0.8.0.1.tar.gz doesnt work, it still unpacks to fuse-0.8.0.1 ... |
| 15:48.59 | ScaredyCat | CM: uploaded |
| 15:49.24 | mickeyl | jpcass: overriding S doesn't change the unpacking directory, it changes the directory your build starts in |
| 15:49.27 | CM | ScaredyCat: downloaded |
| 15:49.33 | ScaredyCat | jpcass_: can't you mv that dir |
| 15:49.45 | mickeyl | you need to say |
| 15:49.46 | jpcass_ | mickeyl: aha...ok |
| 15:50.01 | mickeyl | S = "${WORKDIR}/fuse-${PV}" |
| 15:50.09 | mickeyl | then it'll work |
| 15:50.36 | mickeyl | and won't step on fuse's toes since WORKDIR is depending on ${PN} anyways |
| 15:51.05 | mickeyl | have to go for some hours |
| 15:51.06 | mickeyl | bbiab |
| 15:51.09 | jpcass_ | yes: I will get work/arm.../zxfuse-0.8.0.1/fuse-0/8/0/1 ... |
| 15:51.12 | jpcass_ | thanks |
| 15:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 15:51.44 | jpcass_ | looks like its working... |
| 15:52.22 | vciaglia | and...when will we get the stable release of OpenMoko? |
| 15:53.28 | *** part/#openmoko inazouma (n=gcasse@212.155.183.253) |
| 15:54.30 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=Writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 15:55.42 | bedboi | ALBUQUERQUE,NM, US 09/21/2007 8:53 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY |
| 15:55.45 | bedboi | oh my god |
| 15:55.56 | bedboi | come on UPS guys |
| 15:55.59 | bedboi | i'm still home |
| 15:56.00 | bedboi | :) |
| 15:56.14 | ScaredyCat | vciaglia: you do't have to build it to test it :) |
| 16:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko derFrank (n=derFrank@P8866.p.pppool.de) |
| 16:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:12.40 | *** part/#openmoko Writchie (n=Writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 16:12.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Hardware]] [[Wishlist:Camera]] [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] |
| 16:15.38 | vciaglia | i still can't find "ipkg" :/ |
| 16:15.49 | *** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@77-56-188-185.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:15.55 | bipolar | ScaredyCat: you can always track down the truck and ask him for it. :) |
| 16:16.05 | ScaredyCat | lol... |
| 16:16.15 | bipolar | ScaredyCat: I've done that for work... alot |
| 16:16.21 | ScaredyCat | he'll probably throw it over the fence ;) |
| 16:20.43 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A42E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:21.27 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423_w (n=chatzill@tmo-054-241.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 16:22.11 | hhf423 | moin |
| 16:22.31 | *** join/#openmoko one- (n=one@adsl-215-241-187.kymp.net) |
| 16:23.19 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 16:23.57 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A42E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:24.13 | CM | ScaredyCat: I still can't get qutopia to turn off the screen. |
| 16:24.22 | ScaredyCat | with my new image? |
| 16:24.26 | CM | ScaredyCat: It dims, but never turns off. Plugged in or not |
| 16:24.31 | CM | Yes, new image |
| 16:24.32 | hhf423 | wow, nothing new since sep 17 on builthost? |
| 16:24.39 | CM | But calling works :) |
| 16:24.42 | ScaredyCat | lemmie test |
| 16:25.07 | ScaredyCat | need to build opemoko images too now :) |
| 16:25.08 | CM | I have Dim light 20s, Display off 40s, and Suspend Off for both |
| 16:25.10 | hhf423 | did someone get the dual boot to work om/gt? |
| 16:25.21 | CM | hhf423: Don't know if anyone have tried yet |
| 16:25.48 | hhf423 | CM: ghiottone did try, but that was like two or three days ago I think |
| 16:26.08 | CM | Ah, ok. Haven't heard anything about it though |
| 16:26.27 | hhf423 | CM: then he probably did not get it to run |
| 16:26.30 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@sta-207-174-137-187.rockynet.com) |
| 16:27.06 | hhf423 | any significant changes in OM in the last two days? |
| 16:27.34 | CM | s/significant// |
| 16:27.40 | CM | And still no.. ;) |
| 16:27.52 | SpeedEvil | The AI interface is finally in, with the do-what-I mean gesture interface. |
| 16:28.10 | SpeedEvil | You just squiggle on the screen while thinking of something, and it does it. |
| 16:28.34 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 16:28.39 | ScaredyCat | did you click 'add to profile' CM ? |
| 16:28.39 | hhf423 | harhar |
| 16:28.45 | SpeedEvil | On the downside, it does occasionally take over the world, and kill everyone. |
| 16:29.04 | CM | ScaredyCat: Ah, didn't see that one |
| 16:29.09 | hhf423 | I see that zecke and mickey are working on the browser |
| 16:29.32 | hhf423 | whats libmokooui responsible for? |
| 16:30.16 | CM | ScaredyCat: Heh, I seem to have a really long timeout on the usbnet. |
| 16:30.36 | SpeedEvil | I like that happening too. Unplug, go out do some GPS traces. |
| 16:30.43 | SpeedEvil | Plugin, keep typing on ssh |
| 16:30.55 | CM | Exactly |
| 16:30.58 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@86.157.141.0) |
| 16:31.21 | hhf423 | no news on GPS I guess? |
| 16:31.26 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 16:31.27 | CM | Now it doesn't even dim.. |
| 16:34.33 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f049015047.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:35.06 | hhf423 | whwre are the qt snapshots? |
| 16:35.51 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 16:37.26 | ScaredyCat | do youwant a build |
| 16:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D82B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:38.13 | hhf423 | in the forums there is sort of an indication that there is now more recent stuff like 18.09? |
| 16:38.28 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mb422.m.pppool.de) |
| 16:38.30 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: you have something more recent? |
| 16:39.28 | ScaredyCat | I have a build from today in my buildhost |
| 16:39.41 | hhf423 | oh? |
| 16:40.36 | hhf423 | this? http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/OpenMoko-qtopia-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070921-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 16:40.55 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 16:41.05 | ScaredyCat | use the latest kernel from there too |
| 16:41.18 | hhf423 | cool, I'll try that later. any significant changes since three days ago? |
| 16:41.41 | ScaredyCat | not really - I've put some minor fixes in there |
| 16:42.19 | ScaredyCat | mainly just to be sure it was easy enough to rebuild |
| 16:42.54 | ScaredyCat | there's still some way to go, but it is actually usable for a few hours, 5.5 on mine, wihtout calls. |
| 16:46.18 | hhf423 | 5.5 for battery life? |
| 16:46.24 | ScaredyCat | yah |
| 16:46.55 | CM | I'm still wondering how I'm going to be able to use the gta01 neo as a gps in my car |
| 16:47.32 | CM | It will have to suck 500mW, not the default 100 |
| 16:47.42 | CM | Will it do that from a "dumb" usb charger? |
| 16:48.45 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 16:49.10 | hhf423 | CM: is there not the possibility to tell the neo to use the fast or autofast charging from unix environment? |
| 16:49.10 | ScaredyCat | dunno, you mean from the cigarette lighter socket |
| 16:49.11 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 16:49.46 | hhf423 | CM: because if you set it to fast or autofast in uboot, it charges from a dumb charger. I did that when I was on vacation. |
| 16:50.09 | hhf423 | CM: I was just not sure how to do that in linux, so I left it in uboot over night. |
| 16:51.21 | folken | has anyone tried more recent openmoko builds than 20070916? |
| 16:51.51 | PBeck | hum give it any inofficial information about gta02 and the release date? |
| 16:51.53 | hhf423 | folken: see "pahse 1 software testing" in wiki |
| 16:52.47 | PBeck | the openmoko.com website has still the information for october |
| 16:52.49 | hhf423 | s/pahse/phase |
| 16:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko burton__ (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-17-117.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:53.13 | folken | hhf423: that is exaclty why i asked, since it hasen't been updated. :) |
| 16:53.16 | *** join/#openmoko mtoups_ (n=mtoups@HENSON.ISR.CS.CMU.EDU) |
| 16:53.19 | PBeck | i think this question is the most asked ;) |
| 16:54.00 | hhf423 | folken: if you look onto buildhost, there is only an image from the 17.09. |
| 16:54.35 | hhf423 | folken: and if you look into commitlog, you can see the answer why not testing anything later: why bother |
| 16:55.09 | hhf423 | maybe on the weekend there will be a new image with the browser2 to test |
| 16:55.38 | hhf423 | folken: if you want to try out stuff, have a look at the qtopia image, thats nice |
| 16:55.59 | PBeck | hhf423: where can i get informationen about the openmoko-browser2? |
| 16:56.09 | folken | hhf423: allready running it. But still has too many bugs for day to day operation. |
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| 16:57.25 | hhf423 | PBeck: from the changelogs |
| 16:58.01 | PBeck | hhf423: had openmoko-browser2 a project page - anywhere? |
| 16:58.14 | hhf423 | PBeck: not that I am aware of |
| 16:58.53 | PBeck | where can i find any changelogs and pictures? |
| 17:00.01 | hhf423 | PBeck: pictures: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 17:00.27 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-217-219-39.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:00.28 | hhf423 | changes: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/2007-September/date.html |
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| 17:01.24 | mwester | ScaredyCat: do you have any kernel patches in your build? |
| 17:01.29 | PBeck | hhf423: ah thanks |
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| 17:05.34 | jas4711 | is there a known good u-boot version? i'm running the latest from svn now, but there is a (reported) bug that makes it not boot the kernel sometimes |
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| 17:11.58 | ScaredyCat | mwester: it's the same kernel as the standard openmoko build |
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| 17:13.45 | hhf423 | jas4711: this one: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/images/ |
| 17:15.25 | mwester | ScaredyCat: Ok - you have other updates in your tree that aren't (yet) appearing on buildhost, though? |
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| 17:16.12 | ScaredyCat | well, yes I guess so.. I build most days... |
| 17:16.14 | mwester | I'm wondering if we need to provide an updated image with some key out-of-tree patches, for the benefit of those who flash the old, stale images and run into the same old problems... |
| 17:16.18 | ScaredyCat | todayes are just uploading |
| 17:17.40 | ScaredyCat | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/43091acec6b18755afc111cb45857f5c.png !!!! |
| 17:19.48 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 17:20.10 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:20.19 | mwester | I remain convinced that selecting an alternate chipset for the GPS *before* Broadcom delivered on the updated library was really, really, naive business move on the part of somebody. |
| 17:20.35 | SpeedEvil | it's reportedly not been decided |
| 17:20.49 | SpeedEvil | there are reportedly two candidate models, one with each chipset |
| 17:21.02 | mwester | I know *exactly* what priority my employer would place a customer that selected a competitor for the next generation. |
| 17:21.30 | buz_ | mwester: broadcom isnt exactly known for their linux friendlyness |
| 17:21.37 | buz_ | (did broadcom buy GL?) |
| 17:21.49 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 17:22.01 | mwester | I think the "not yet decided" is back-pedaling. It's pretty clear that the OM core team wants a more opensource-friendly solution, and (as buz_ points out) that ain't Broadcom! |
| 17:22.09 | buz_ | i'd rather prefer it not to have broadcom in the phone |
| 17:22.13 | buz_ | exactly |
| 17:22.31 | buz_ | broadcom may well be the last of the truly opensource unfriendly chip makers |
| 17:22.36 | SpeedEvil | The reverse engineering effort proceeds. |
| 17:22.40 | SpeedEvil | Slowly though. |
| 17:22.52 | buz_ | RE might do jack with a new chip |
| 17:22.58 | SpeedEvil | Especially now that there has been doubt raised as to its eventual functionality |
| 17:23.18 | buz_ | thats what i mean |
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| 17:23.44 | SpeedEvil | The annoying thing is that an opensource driver with the HH chip might be very flexible, allowing possibilities that are not likely to be in a chipset that gives a more cooked position. |
| 17:23.47 | buz_ | how much cpu does gllin eat? |
| 17:23.53 | SpeedEvil | 10-20% |
| 17:23.59 | mwester | That's a whole other problem. What incentive is there to reverse-engineer a solution for such a limited user base. I fear that the P1 owners may end up with a non-functional GPS (to go along with the non-functional AT&T sims) |
| 17:24.03 | buz_ | SpeedEvil: count on broadcom fighting that tooth and nail |
| 17:24.20 | SpeedEvil | buz_: they can't really fight it tooth and nail. |
| 17:24.31 | buz_ | sure, they will change hammerhead ever so slightly |
| 17:24.46 | SpeedEvil | Umm. No. |
| 17:24.58 | buz_ | look at their wifi chipsets |
| 17:25.00 | SpeedEvil | Hardware revisions are hideously expensive. |
| 17:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:25.14 | buz_ | they recook wifi chips for no apparent reasons |
| 17:25.16 | ScaredyCat | wouldn't they just flash it |
| 17:25.22 | buz_ | i dont think it has flash |
| 17:25.28 | SpeedEvil | A new chip mask costs millions. |
| 17:25.34 | buz_ | seems to be mostly a RF receiver |
| 17:25.41 | *** part/#openmoko chetan_ (n=chetan@202.140.50.194) |
| 17:26.10 | ScaredyCat | if anyone wants the openmoko-browser2 - it;s in my repo |
| 17:26.16 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@86.155.122.149) |
| 17:26.22 | buz_ | i want a gta02 ;) |
| 17:26.36 | ScaredyCat | I'll put one in my repo too ;) |
| 17:27.46 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@87.14.56.174) |
| 17:30.47 | ScaredyCat | http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/All-For-19-Seconds.aspx |
| 17:31.13 | buz_ | tho after seeing gta01 i was tempted to order one ;) |
| 17:32.25 | sannes | hm, how do I turn of the vibration (something was killed while it was on and now it is vibrating all the time :P) |
| 17:32.35 | buz_ | OMFG |
| 17:32.35 | buz_ | that's why we have seconds since the epoch ;) |
| 17:32.48 | SpeedEvil | find / -name "*vibra*" |
| 17:32.58 | SpeedEvil | in that directory is a 'brightness' file |
| 17:33.02 | SpeedEvil | echo 0 > that file |
| 17:34.06 | SpeedEvil | him. |
| 17:34.08 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 17:36.31 | sannes | hehe, brightness didn't work but the delay_on worked :P |
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| 17:53.57 | *** topic/#openmoko is The OpenMoko Project - http://openmoko.org - Neo1973 GTA01 on sale at https://direct.openmoko.com |
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| 18:05.05 | mccarthy_ | mmp, how're things? |
| 18:06.35 | mmp | mccarthy_: hello, as usual... |
| 18:06.52 | mmp | during GSoC, h5000 support was improved quite a lot... |
| 18:07.05 | mccarthy_ | I was pleasantly surprised to see that X now works "out of the box" with angstrom images. Nice work |
| 18:07.38 | mmp | mccarthy_: it's work of angstrom developers; they bumped kernel version in h5000 angstrom images:) |
| 18:07.44 | mccarthy_ | having trouble with usbnet (which I hate) ... but otherwise it looks nice |
| 18:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko bpot (n=potterr@dhcp71.acs.southwestern.edu) |
| 18:08.02 | mccarthy_ | is wifi closer to being easy to get working? |
| 18:08.44 | mmp | err, not that much, I still need to figure out how to reasonably implement power management... |
| 18:09.14 | mccarthy_ | mmp, where do you hide your nice kernel's these days? I looked at hh.org/~mmp/h5000 with no joy |
| 18:09.54 | mmp | err, I put kernel image there only occassionaly:) |
| 18:10.16 | mmp | (e.g. when someone asks for it:) |
| 18:12.41 | mmp | mccarthy_: but you reminded me what I wanted to do:) |
| 18:12.45 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Mokopedia]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[DECT]] [[User:Pgrodt]] [[Talk:Developer_preview]] |
| 18:16.29 | Lynet | ..a small patch for man, a giant wlan for my phone? ;-) |
| 18:16.37 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484F60D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 18:17.34 | mmp | Lynet: only for PDA :-/ |
| 18:19.39 | Fradeve87 | hi all ---- a small announce: in whislist of software, there's someone who wrote of a program to upload quickly images from OpenMoko to Flickr. Someone has already created this kind of utility for iPhone, and has released it under GPL. http://mobilepushr.jottit.com/ My question: there is any possibility to port this application on OpenMoko?? |
| 18:19.53 | Elrond | roh - Could you reproduce my bug on your hw? |
| 18:20.21 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 18:21.08 | Fradeve87 | The application's name's Mobile Push, and it's written in C |
| 18:21.19 | kristian-m | Fradeve87 sure. but how would you load the images onto your neo? |
| 18:21.53 | Fradeve87 | kristian-m: bluetooth? |
| 18:22.17 | Fradeve87 | kristian-m: sometimes friends send you images from them cells tho your, using bluetooth |
| 18:22.51 | kristian-m | Fradeve87 i see. do you have the url of that tool |
| 18:22.59 | Fradeve87 | is in my precedent post |
| 18:23.06 | Fradeve87 | http://mobilepushr.jottit.com/ |
| 18:23.29 | Fradeve87 | I've seen the source code and it appears to be only C |
| 18:23.42 | Fradeve87 | git://mg8.org/MobilePushr |
| 18:24.38 | kristian-m | Fradeve87 hmm thats cocoa... |
| 18:25.03 | kristian-m | Fradeve87 maybe it's redone in some hours in python |
| 18:25.37 | Fradeve87 | mmm obviously it's only an idea, but I think that this tool could be useful |
| 18:26.36 | kristian-m | Fradeve87 i guess the fist step for your usecase would be to build a bluetooth gui |
| 18:27.36 | Fradeve87 | lol ---- it's not a bad idea :D Which is the situation of BT communications nowaday in OpenMoko? |
| 18:28.11 | kristian-m | Fradeve87 you'd have to use the commandline and the bluez tools |
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| 18:30.37 | ScaredyCat | Fradeve87: there's a screenshot app already... |
| 18:30.44 | Fradeve87 | sure -- but I currently do not have a Neo (I will buy GTA02); I've posted only to know the real possibility of a porting of Mobile Pushr |
| 18:31.01 | ScaredyCat | so you could modify it to ul to flickr |
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| 18:32.28 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@81.84.150.241) |
| 18:32.57 | Fradeve87 | ScaredyCat: I don't know if there is a screenshot; however, I will insert the link to Mobile Pushr in OM Wiki Software Wishlist, in the part related with Flickr. Anytime, who wants to applicate on this, has a starting point ;) |
| 18:33.26 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-32-146-127.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:33.43 | webjames | hey mokoers, check this out: http://uk.gizmodo.com/2007/09/21/tiny_phonebased_projector_in_a.html |
| 18:33.55 | ScaredyCat | the existing app uploads to http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 18:34.58 | ScaredyCat | webjames: resolution? |
| 18:35.33 | webjames | ScaredyCat: not sure, but the idea would be cool, i'll watch the vid and report back.. |
| 18:35.59 | fgau | webjames: i have seen this prototype on IFA, Berlin, this year |
| 18:36.27 | ScaredyCat | it's <5 seconds showing it, and 15 seconds of nothing (interesting) |
| 18:36.32 | webjames | did it look good.. |
| 18:36.35 | webjames | ? |
| 18:36.42 | fgau | not for daily use :) |
| 18:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:37.59 | webjames | ScaredyCat: it's native res: 800 by 600 |
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| 18:39.48 | webjames | okay another idea: http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/21/seoul-semiconductors-420-lumen-led-puts-the-sun-to-shame/ |
| 18:43.36 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 18:44.48 | mccarthy_ | mmp, any nice kernels for me, then? |
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| 19:01.18 | Ghiottone | hi all |
| 19:02.36 | notserpe | hey |
| 19:06.31 | *** part/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:08.20 | kristian-m | hi Ghiottone |
| 19:08.58 | Ghiottone | hey kristian-m |
| 19:09.14 | Ghiottone | I've just released and tested the 0.7 version of SettingsGUI |
| 19:09.50 | Ghiottone | 0.7-r1 should work out of the box. I have applied just a little patch to setup.py and it worked |
| 19:10.12 | Ghiottone | now I have to go out. just logged in to tell that. |
| 19:10.13 | kristian-m | Ghiottone nice - I'll put that to the wikipage - I think manual installation is to complex |
| 19:10.22 | kristian-m | Ghiottone thanks :-) cu |
| 19:10.29 | Ghiottone | :) |
| 19:10.31 | Ghiottone | bye |
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| 19:33.45 | casten | Does anyone know where to look in the build files to see what compiler options are used for compiling .c files? |
| 19:33.51 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 19:33.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3028 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c): |
| 19:33.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: (_moko_stock_add_icon): Start documentation |
| 19:33.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: for moko-stock |
| 19:34.10 | dkr | casten: grep -r FLAGS ? |
| 19:34.15 | casten | thank you very much |
| 19:34.43 | dkr | (that was a guess, btw, if the ? didn't make it clear) ;) |
| 19:35.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3029 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog data/gtkrc src/moko-draw.c): |
| 19:35.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * data/gtkrc: Add some gradient and border options to styles |
| 19:35.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-draw.c: (moko_draw_box): Implement gradient option |
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| 19:40.46 | ScaredyCat | CM: http://www.meritline.com/car-charger-usb-chargers.html |
| 19:41.00 | ScaredyCat | Output: 5Vdc, 500mA |
| 19:44.26 | emdete | ScaredyCat: is this a passiv usb plug? |
| 19:44.55 | ScaredyCat | no idea |
| 19:45.13 | ScaredyCat | http://www.gomadic.com/unusbcarchar.html |
| 19:45.19 | ScaredyCat | 1 amp version |
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| 19:50.15 | emdete | i really would like to use a standard headphone with a adapter like this: http://www.handynow.de/handy-zubehoer/product_info.php?products_id=5325 - but on top of the 5euro you pay 8 for shipping :/ |
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| 19:51.55 | ScaredyCat | why can't you just plug a normal headset without it/ |
| 19:51.56 | ScaredyCat | ? |
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| 19:52.27 | emdete | ScaredyCat: the normal headset are really bad sound quality. i think the neo is capable for more |
| 19:52.49 | ScaredyCat | bluetooth ? |
| 19:53.05 | ScaredyCat | as an alternative |
| 19:53.06 | emdete | and a good headphone uses at least 3.5mm |
| 19:53.24 | emdete | for what? i need a conn to a /good/ headphone |
| 19:53.47 | ScaredyCat | you ccan get some good bt headphones |
| 19:53.53 | emdete | the headset that comes with the neo is okay but not really good for music |
| 19:54.23 | emdete | what does /good/ mean? i searched very lonng for the one i have now |
| 19:55.13 | anrp | maybe he means a bt-to-3.5mm adapter :D |
| 19:55.21 | anrp | no idea if that exists |
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| 19:56.08 | emdete | anrp: good idea ;) don't know if bluetooth is a good idea to transport sound... |
| 19:56.20 | ScaredyCat | the neo ones look like a cheap Steinhauser knock off |
| 19:56.39 | emdete | fic says they put a godd sound system in |
| 19:57.12 | cjb | it's mono, in v2 |
| 19:57.27 | anrp | it needs to be twice as good as it currently is then |
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| 19:58.00 | emdete | cjb: no, the speaker is, not the sound system |
| 19:58.04 | ScaredyCat | cjb: mono - even via a headset? |
| 19:58.06 | emdete | anrp: ? |
| 19:58.11 | cjb | oh, ok |
| 19:58.13 | anrp | if it's mono |
| 19:58.28 | emdete | no, it's the same sound hardware as i understand that |
| 19:58.45 | ScaredyCat | just one less speaker for space reasons ? |
| 19:58.47 | emdete | only the speaker was replaced with wifi (whoever needs that one... :/ ) |
| 19:58.56 | emdete | ScaredyCat: yes, as i understand |
| 20:01.51 | emdete | i would like to know how long the battery lasts with wifi turned on - in fact you are free with network but need a cable for power... :D |
| 20:03.40 | ScaredyCat | 30seconds |
| 20:05.03 | zecke | mickeyl: hey |
| 20:05.12 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:05.18 | mickeyl | hi zecke ! |
| 20:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko psymin (n=psymin@smtpstatic.blackfoot.net) |
| 20:07.21 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: Some of the images in the artwork dir are misnamed - mind if I fix that or would you rather I file a bug report again? |
| 20:07.59 | mickeyl | abraxa_: go ahead. |
| 20:08.02 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 20:08.07 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-147-216.bas502.dsl.esat.net) |
| 20:08.08 | abraxa_ | Thanks :) |
| 20:08.52 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: btw - gstreamer still stutters on UI interaction on gta01 even with my patch |
| 20:09.43 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: top says the player eats ~40% CPU (incl. gstreamer), PulseAudio ~35% and openmoko-today 8~15% (wtf?) |
| 20:09.46 | mickeyl | abraxa_: that's not surprising. we're going to a lot of indirections and just have 266MHz |
| 20:09.59 | mickeyl | s/to/through/ |
| 20:10.21 | mickeyl | i think further data can only be generated with exmap |
| 20:10.29 | ScaredyCat | mickeyl: did you blog ? |
| 20:10.35 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: no, i was out eating :) |
| 20:10.42 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: doing it within the next 24h |
| 20:10.58 | mickeyl | plain goes on Sunday, 14:00 |
| 20:11.01 | ScaredyCat | eating is probably more important :) |
| 20:11.02 | mickeyl | plane, even |
| 20:11.04 | mickeyl | yes! |
| 20:11.11 | mickeyl | and with a full stomach, everything looks bright ;) |
| 20:11.15 | ScaredyCat | hehehe |
| 20:11.25 | anrp | better than plaid |
| 20:11.32 | mickeyl | yea |
| 20:11.36 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AEF85.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:11.40 | casten | anyone know where I can find the CFLAGS, etc. for the build? I tried grepping, but I'm not having any luck. |
| 20:11.48 | mickeyl | sure |
| 20:11.52 | mickeyl | conf/bitbake.conf |
| 20:11.57 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 20:12.37 | mickeyl | anything package-wise in particular you want me to include in the September snapshot? |
| 20:12.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[SettingsGUI]] [[User:ChrisLord]] [[User:Javiroman]] |
| 20:12.55 | mickeyl | i think we have 5 to 7 MB left until we need to stop stuffing software into it |
| 20:13.03 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 20:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 20:13.22 | ScaredyCat | how much space does it leave? |
| 20:13.36 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: I'll keep trying to improve things and commit to SVN when I think I found something that works - is there anything I should/need to do to get my patch into OE? (if OE is even the right place in the first place) |
| 20:14.26 | mickeyl | abraxa_: OE is the right place for everything that upstream will take a while (or will never) accept |
| 20:14.27 | anrp | how about ooo? |
| 20:14.28 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 20:14.33 | mickeyl | open office?????? |
| 20:14.34 | anrp | .. |
| 20:14.46 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: we need to leave ~10 MB free for jffs2 |
| 20:14.52 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: right now we are ~43 |
| 20:14.56 | mickeyl | I'd rather stop @ 50 |
| 20:15.18 | mickeyl | user data can go on the SD |
| 20:15.43 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: Okay, so when I commit I'll also send you a proper patch for OE - sounds good? |
| 20:15.47 | anrp | it would almost make more sense to go with two microsd sockets, one internal and one external, instead of futzing around with nand flash for data storage |
| 20:15.52 | mickeyl | abraxa_: sounds good. |
| 20:15.56 | anrp | get a 4mb flash for kernel and use sd for the rest... |
| 20:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko emdete (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 20:16.23 | mickeyl | yeah, no kidding. i thought about that as well |
| 20:16.27 | ScaredyCat | yeah... I think it's probably a good idea to either use some flash (separate mtdblock?) for users settings so that they don;t get over writeen all the time or make it clear that user stuff should be on the sd card |
| 20:16.29 | emdete | is there a way to see the current somehow, the power that is currently drawn from battery? |
| 20:16.41 | casten | Hmm, I don't see anything that looks like compiler flags in bitbake.conf |
| 20:16.46 | anrp | microsd has large economies of scale |
| 20:17.00 | anrp | i can pay $10, and get 8mb worth of flash chips in low quantity |
| 20:17.08 | anrp | or, i can pay $10, and get 1GB of flash |
| 20:17.13 | anrp | ... and it's physically smaller! |
| 20:17.36 | mickeyl | casten: # Build flags and options. |
| 20:17.37 | mickeyl | ... |
| 20:17.44 | mickeyl | there is all you need |
| 20:17.50 | mickeyl | + optimization flags in tune-<machine>.conf |
| 20:17.59 | mickeyl | the rest comes from the actual Makefiles |
| 20:18.04 | mickeyl | (of course) |
| 20:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:18.24 | anrp | be sure to add -fomit-random-instructions |
| 20:18.41 | mickeyl | heh |
| 20:18.55 | ScaredyCat | vomit? |
| 20:18.57 | anrp | it makes code smaller |
| 20:19.18 | cjb | yeah, -fomit-frame-pointer is often misread |
| 20:19.42 | juri_ | -O6 -fuck-upstream-maintainer... |
| 20:19.47 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 20:23.12 | casten | ok, I was looking in bitbake/conf not OE/conf, that's why I didin't see anything useful |
| 20:24.06 | emdete | i don't know if my question came through: any idea how to determine the current power that is used by the neo? |
| 20:25.06 | mickeyl | no way without a scope |
| 20:25.12 | mickeyl | well, measuring equipment |
| 20:25.42 | mickeyl | PM is going to change radically in gta02, perhaps there's a change |
| 20:25.44 | mickeyl | chance |
| 20:25.44 | emdete | hm, that's sad for testing... |
| 20:25.58 | PBeck | what means PM? |
| 20:26.22 | emdete | how is the plan for that - i read alot about pm with suspend-resume... i don't like that idea |
| 20:26.30 | emdete | power manegment |
| 20:26.47 | PBeck | oh ... yes ;) |
| 20:27.07 | PBeck | mickeyl: give it any status updates to gta02? |
| 20:27.13 | PBeck | on* |
| 20:28.11 | emdete | PBeck: didn't it just get a red nose and comes through the chminey? |
| 20:28.17 | mickeyl | emdete: well, you definitely need suspend-resume otherwise you won't get standbye times >= 4 hours |
| 20:28.24 | *** join/#openmoko sagaci1 (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 20:28.31 | mickeyl | there's just no way without a much more complicated smartphone design |
| 20:28.39 | emdete | mickeyl: how about freq change of the proc? |
| 20:28.45 | *** join/#openmoko vato2 (n=vatoz@rb5db91.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:28.52 | mickeyl | emdete: yes, but that won't change a lot. the CPU is not the critical factor here |
| 20:29.04 | PBeck | emdete: ? |
| 20:29.15 | mickeyl | (at least that's what i've been told... not being a hardware guy) |
| 20:29.16 | emdete | so steady-on is no way with neo? |
| 20:29.21 | emdete | PBeck: christmas? |
| 20:29.34 | PBeck | emdete: i think that are inoffcial information? |
| 20:29.35 | mickeyl | emdete: can't for sure, but i highly doubt it from what the HW engineers told me |
| 20:29.43 | *** join/#openmoko mlunter (n=mlunter@host185-14-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:30.00 | mickeyl | PBeck: can't say more. my gta02v2 was (as always) intercepted by customs and will be here tomorrow |
| 20:30.07 | mickeyl | which is of no use as I'm going on vacation on Sunday :D |
| 20:30.10 | emdete | so what 'more complex design' may that be? |
| 20:30.31 | mickeyl | emdete: more intelligent PMU |
| 20:30.34 | emdete | mickeyl: you got one? he! :D |
| 20:31.03 | PBeck | mickeyl: ah ok. you aren't in taiwan? |
| 20:31.11 | emdete | mickeyl: means what? what can that do more than switch parts of when they aren not used? |
| 20:31.23 | mickeyl | PBeck: right. i'm in frankfurt at the moment |
| 20:31.41 | emdete | mickeyl: gruesse nach frankfurt ;) |
| 20:31.51 | PBeck | mickeyl: grüße aus stuttgart :) |
| 20:32.06 | mickeyl | emdete: don't ask me, i'm really out of my depth here. that'd be a question for laforge |
| 20:32.11 | mickeyl | PBeck: danke und zurück :) |
| 20:32.20 | PBeck | ;) |
| 20:32.25 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-32-146-127.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:32.25 | casten | Does anyone know if it is possible to create compatible partially linked libraries using gcc without installing the whole OE build system? |
| 20:32.32 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953AB36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:32.38 | casten | Sorry to ask so many annoying questions. |
| 20:32.47 | mickeyl | what is a partially linked library? |
| 20:32.59 | casten | I mean an ELF I guess. |
| 20:33.01 | mickeyl | we have a toolchain available, if you mean that |
| 20:33.16 | mickeyl | it's just not polished very much, but it works |
| 20:33.16 | PBeck | mickeyl: i hope v2 had not a hell of a lot bugs :/ |
| 20:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A777f.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 20:33.25 | mickeyl | PBeck: no comparison to gta01 |
| 20:33.33 | mickeyl | PBeck: layout was done inhouse |
| 20:33.38 | mickeyl | pretty much everything worked right in v1 |
| 20:34.11 | PBeck | mickeyl: v2 external? |
| 20:34.18 | *** join/#openmoko mlunter (n=mlunter@host185-14-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:34.19 | mickeyl | ? |
| 20:34.38 | mickeyl | lack of context ;) |
| 20:35.03 | casten | so an ARM7TDMI .elf file made with another tool won't be able to be linked with an app written for this platform? |
| 20:35.05 | PBeck | hum my english ^^ which layout was done inhouse v1 or v2? |
| 20:35.13 | emdete | how much of raphic accelleration is done for x11? |
| 20:35.26 | mickeyl | casten: oh, if it's gnueabi, it might work |
| 20:35.54 | mickeyl | PBeck: ah. all the GTA02v* layout was done inhouse. all the GTA01[B]v* was done outsourced |
| 20:36.19 | PBeck | mickeyl: that mean a higher quality? |
| 20:36.26 | mickeyl | PBeck: yes. |
| 20:36.29 | fgau | mickeyl: any news to the gllin-eabi driver? |
| 20:36.33 | PBeck | ok super :) |
| 20:36.35 | casten | If it doesn't make any standard library type calls, then it's just a question of FP stuff, right? |
| 20:36.41 | *** join/#openmoko |Jeffrey| (n=kvirc@ip-210.net-81-220-195.roubaix.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 20:37.41 | emdete | are arm7, arm9, arm11 in any way compatible? |
| 20:37.44 | PBeck | mickeyl: need we a version 3 for gta02 to fix all bugs? |
| 20:38.06 | casten | arm7 should run on arm9, arm 9 should run on arm11 I think |
| 20:38.32 | *** join/#openmoko awu (n=Miranda@port-83-236-4-244.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:38.43 | mickeyl | PBeck: yes. it's not only bugs btw., it's also adding some more features. hw design is incremental as well, i.e. v1 didn't include wifi nor bt ;) |
| 20:38.49 | bedboi | my neo is arrived! |
| 20:38.54 | mickeyl | yay! |
| 20:38.55 | emdete | casten: strange thing was that greenphone binaries did not work on neo. perhaps this eabi stuff? |
| 20:38.57 | bedboi | now the problem is: how do i charge it? |
| 20:39.02 | emdete | what is the alternative to eabi? |
| 20:39.04 | casten | They mostly added instructions and FP support I think, ARM11. |
| 20:39.11 | bedboi | thnx |
| 20:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 20:39.18 | mickeyl | fgau: no. i can't make it to work. i have requested more support from Broadcom :/ |
| 20:39.23 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.196.75) |
| 20:39.26 | PBeck | mickeyl: is december realistic for a relase? developer? Mass?? |
| 20:39.26 | mickeyl | ~lart closed source |
| 20:39.26 | apt | cats /dev/urandom into closed source's ear |
| 20:39.42 | hhf423 | bedboi: hook it up to a linux system |
| 20:39.48 | bedboi | ok |
| 20:40.03 | bedboi | i connected it through a usb cable |
| 20:40.05 | mickeyl | PBeck: if you ask me, i think we can sell the hardware in december. Note that .tw is some miles away and I'm not always superinformed regarding the hardware status, so take it with lots of salt ;) |
| 20:40.18 | hhf423 | bedboi: before that, remove the battery for about 20mins to make sure its totally dead |
| 20:40.20 | fgau | mickeyl: thanks, i hope for more Broadcom support |
| 20:40.26 | mickeyl | fgau: yep, me too |
| 20:40.32 | hhf423 | bedboi: yes, with usb |
| 20:40.32 | mickeyl | ~bon appetit casten |
| 20:40.35 | ScaredyCat | salt is bad for you |
| 20:41.23 | PBeck | mickeyl: which release you think? Mass-Release or only for developer? |
| 20:41.38 | ScaredyCat | p1 02 ? |
| 20:41.43 | hhf423 | bedboi: if you remove battery for 20mins, then charge on a linux system for 30mins it might have enough power so that you can turn it on |
| 20:41.53 | mickeyl | PBeck: well, we will always want to build a run of 100 or so |
| 20:41.57 | mickeyl | before thinking about real MP |
| 20:42.03 | mickeyl | anything else is too risky |
| 20:42.04 | bedboi | hhf423: voodoo :) |
| 20:42.11 | PBeck | mickeyl: yes you are right. |
| 20:42.16 | bedboi | damn i lost my nokia phone :( |
| 20:43.41 | PBeck | mickeyl: btw => for the new agenda the openmoko-team should perhaps add a few moth to the calculated date and publish this ;) |
| 20:43.43 | hhf423 | bedboi: yes, a little bit. the problem is that when you try to turn it on when it is not enough charged, it will "half" turn on or so and then not charge good any more, thats why you need to make sure that its totally dead (20 mins w/o battery) when you need to charge it from scratch |
| 20:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 20:44.14 | hhf423 | bedboi: as long as the phone does turn on, it will always charge good when hooked up to a linux pc |
| 20:44.22 | PBeck | mickeyl: so had the openmoko team no stress ^^ |
| 20:44.30 | mickeyl | PBeck: well... there's always this fight between marketing and engineers |
| 20:44.43 | mickeyl | OM/FIC is no different in that regard |
| 20:44.46 | PBeck | mickeyl: i think you should hear on the engineers ;) |
| 20:44.53 | mickeyl | heh |
| 20:44.54 | mickeyl | tell me :) |
| 20:44.56 | mickeyl | i'm the engineer |
| 20:45.03 | bedboi | hhf423: i rember worse things with the h5455 |
| 20:45.14 | bedboi | :( |
| 20:45.14 | PBeck | mickeyl: thats tricky ;) |
| 20:45.26 | *** part/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@157-236-210-63-arpa.cust.cinci.current.net) |
| 20:45.27 | bedboi | it is dead now, my poor h5455 :(, my first linux pda |
| 20:45.30 | mickeyl | if it was me, we didn't even sell gta01 at all |
| 20:45.44 | PBeck | mickeyl: marketing wins ever over the engineers in you company ;) |
| 20:45.46 | PBeck | *your |
| 20:45.46 | hhf423 | PBeck: adding months does not make sense, the development process will always take the available time. it is the job of a good PM to make sure that it is not much more than that :-) |
| 20:45.46 | bedboi | mickeyl: don't say that. |
| 20:45.53 | bedboi | mickeyl: i just got one! |
| 20:45.56 | bedboi | wtf |
| 20:45.56 | mickeyl | well |
| 20:46.00 | mickeyl | it's not that it's bad hardware |
| 20:46.00 | bedboi | :) |
| 20:46.05 | bedboi | eehhe |
| 20:46.05 | mickeyl | it's that the software is not there |
| 20:46.12 | emdete | mickeyl: selling gta01 was a good idea.... in my view |
| 20:46.14 | mickeyl | and I would have prefered to sell hardware with complete software |
| 20:46.21 | mickeyl | but luckily this is my personal opinion |
| 20:46.21 | bedboi | software is always feasible. |
| 20:46.42 | PBeck | hhf423: i make sens, because any news site and co promote the release and then will it be delayed |
| 20:46.44 | mickeyl | i know. and you know |
| 20:46.46 | PBeck | *it |
| 20:46.47 | mickeyl | but lots of people don't know |
| 20:46.53 | mickeyl | they think that finished hardware must mean finished software |
| 20:47.01 | mickeyl | and then are utterly disappointed |
| 20:47.09 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@12.196.0.50) |
| 20:47.12 | mickeyl | like my idea was to not ship gta01 with a case |
| 20:47.17 | mickeyl | to make it clear that it's a developer board |
| 20:47.17 | mickeyl | :D |
| 20:47.27 | mickeyl | but marketing didn't want that |
| 20:47.27 | mickeyl | heh |
| 20:47.45 | hhf423 | but then you would not even be able to take it around once it is finished |
| 20:47.56 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 20:47.59 | mickeyl | right. it was only half earnest anyway ;) |
| 20:48.18 | emdete | mickeyl: i am completly fine with that. i can show the neo to people an tell the idea. the big thing with it is oe - the build system. i start to /love/ it... |
| 20:48.19 | PBeck | mickeyl: one point for the marketing ;) October release => two points for marketing ;) |
| 20:48.37 | hhf423 | mickeyl: I don't know about others, but I not not disappointed about the state of the software 2 months ago, I am disappointed about the slow progress in key areas, like gsmd and gps |
| 20:49.01 | PBeck | mickeyl: but you will win on the end ;) |
| 20:49.02 | bedboi | yep, who cares about all the other stuff. |
| 20:49.18 | bedboi | hhf423: it's important to at least being able to place a call. |
| 20:49.26 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:49.46 | bedboi | actually, a rough power management is also needed i guess |
| 20:50.09 | mickeyl | hhf423: agreed. sorry about that |
| 20:50.10 | mickeyl | it will change |
| 20:50.13 | mickeyl | promised |
| 20:50.25 | hhf423 | no worries |
| 20:50.28 | mickeyl | there's a lot of resources in the pipeline |
| 20:50.34 | bedboi | cool |
| 20:50.43 | bedboi | don't overload the pipeline :) |
| 20:50.49 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 20:50.52 | mickeyl | no, not that much |
| 20:50.57 | emdete | so are the wories different - i would like to see a working graph-accel... |
| 20:51.02 | bedboi | that's even worse (/me is congestion control guy) |
| 20:51.19 | bedboi | emdete: who cares about that |
| 20:51.32 | hhf423 | no, don't overload. "adding people to a late project makes the project more late" (from "the mythical man month", a book that I really recommend) |
| 20:51.34 | bedboi | iphone is for That Shit (TM) |
| 20:52.00 | ScaredyCat | pipeline? You sure it's not a series of tubes ? |
| 20:52.06 | hhf423 | hahaha |
| 20:52.11 | emdete | bedboi: see |
| 20:52.18 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p54AF7507.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:52.47 | emdete | bedboi: the people that see the phone here are |
| 20:52.49 | bedboi | emdete: imho, the most important stuff is having the phone to be able to place calls, it is a phone |
| 20:53.01 | bedboi | emdete: it's very questionable. |
| 20:53.10 | bedboi | emdete: in my case, i hate too bloated stuff. |
| 20:53.14 | bedboi | iphone is the case. |
| 20:53.45 | Writchie | voice + SMS + 10 hour standby and it's good enough |
| 20:53.55 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qf285.q.pppool.de) |
| 20:54.01 | hhf423 | bedboi: its not only a phone, its the phone to end all phones, the last phone you'll ever need. also the last PDA and the last computer. except of course a Linux PC to charge it. hrhrhr |
| 20:54.02 | mwester | mickeyl: I vote for kexec-tools in the image, along with the kexec atags kernel patch. Also, I'd love to see one of the solutions in bug 788 in the kernel, or a fusion of both patches in the kernel... |
| 20:54.05 | Writchie | right now I'm more concerned about potential hardware problems like the gsm rf noise in the audio |
| 20:54.06 | PBeck | 10 hour standby? woot? :P |
| 20:54.10 | bedboi | a phone should be sober enough |
| 20:54.16 | emdete | bedboi: a stable working gsm and gprs are important also - shure |
| 20:54.17 | Writchie | these are show-stoppers |
| 20:54.18 | cw666 | Writchie: oh, i hear that too... any suggestions there? |
| 20:54.24 | emdete | bedboi: but i dont care wlan at all |
| 20:54.25 | cw666 | Writchie: it's actually pretty bad sometimes |
| 20:54.26 | ScaredyCat | one phone to end them all..? |
| 20:55.02 | hhf423 | one phone to free them all! |
| 20:55.06 | bedboi | ehehe |
| 20:55.22 | ljp | mickeyl: are the alsa .state files supposed to be in /etc or /etc/alsa, becuase current oe places them in /etc |
| 20:55.55 | ScaredyCat | they moved to /etc/ a while ago |
| 20:55.56 | mickeyl | ljp: this is taste... i have no strong opinion on that |
| 20:56.04 | mickeyl | ljp: any guidance from major distros or FHS? |
| 20:56.28 | Elrond | Hi mickeyl! :-) |
| 20:56.31 | ljp | well, personally I think they look better in /etc/alsa instead of thrown in /etc |
| 20:56.34 | mickeyl | greetings elrond |
| 20:56.36 | ScaredyCat | btw ljp i sorted my snapshots and modded the .bb files... all works well now |
| 20:56.56 | ScaredyCat | keep them out of the way |
| 20:57.22 | ScaredyCat | everything in its place, a place for everything |
| 20:57.32 | hhf423 | ok, off to bed for today, busy day tomorrow. ttyal! |
| 20:58.07 | mickeyl | :) |
| 20:58.09 | mickeyl | good for TT |
| 20:58.13 | Elrond | mickeyl - I have strange behaviour with today2. I still wonder, if I imagine it: I switch to the "+"-tab (for starting something), then I choose "Games" from the dropdown list. I click somewhere. And it starts the App, that was at that position _before_ switching to Games (dialer in many cases) |
| 20:58.14 | mickeyl | and for FIC |
| 20:58.33 | ljp | well, fic is better at hardware than yuhuatel |
| 20:58.34 | Elrond | mickeyl - I feel quite "Heh, what's wrong with me, can apps go that wrong?". |
| 20:58.40 | zecke | ljp: so how many phones do you have? |
| 20:58.46 | ScaredyCat | ljp: the preview doesn;t work properly |
| 20:59.09 | ljp | ScaredyCat: yes, I know. someone broke things while I was gone |
| 20:59.13 | mickeyl | Elrond: not unlikely. i observed something like that myself. not recently though |
| 20:59.38 | mickeyl | i rather suspect the input focus going wrong |
| 20:59.47 | Elrond | mickeyl - It happens for roh's image from people.om.o/roh/ |
| 21:00.23 | Elrond | mickeyl - Puhh, good to hear, it's not me. :) |
| 21:00.53 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 21:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@port-87-234-84-208.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 21:03.58 | Elrond | mickeyl - And the other thing, I noticed: When killing apps from the today-taskmanager, the whole today app goes white and doesn't react any more. (pressing the power button doesn't help either. I was in the bus, so I couldn't connect usb and test, if the kernel at least was alive.) |
| 21:03.59 | bedboi | oh my, tux |
| 21:04.17 | mickeyl | Elrond: nasty. that calls for a bugreport |
| 21:04.50 | mickeyl | lucky one ;) |
| 21:05.12 | ScaredyCat | she refused to make the 5 foot one I asked for :( |
| 21:05.23 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - ;o) |
| 21:05.37 | Elrond | mickeyl - I have to find a way to reproduce it. ;-) |
| 21:06.08 | mickeyl | Elrond: right |
| 21:06.21 | Elrond | mickeyl - Oh, and some good news: Some of the games are the first games on a mobile, that I can play without glases. :-) |
| 21:06.50 | mickeyl | Elrond: cool! that's really good news |
| 21:07.13 | mickeyl | i think accessibility is one area where we can do a lot to outperform closed source |
| 21:07.19 | mickeyl | eventually... |
| 21:07.56 | Elrond | Yes, I think so too. :-) |
| 21:08.15 | CM | Took a while to read the backlog.. :D |
| 21:08.40 | CM | ScaredyCat: Will the Neo negotiate correctly with that charger? |
| 21:08.41 | Elrond | mickeyl - Okay, the white today thing does not lock up the kernel. :-) |
| 21:08.49 | mickeyl | good |
| 21:08.58 | emdete | i think for accessibility the gui must get much simpler |
| 21:09.02 | Elrond | root 1083 1082 5 03:39 ? 00:00:07 [openmoko-today] <defunct> |
| 21:09.07 | Elrond | Okay, so today crashed. ;o) |
| 21:09.15 | ScaredyCat | dunno... but you can add the uboot option to 'force' it can't you ? |
| 21:09.21 | CM | mickeyl: A question. Is there any way to let the neo suck 500mW default when plugged in on usb, for use with car charger? |
| 21:09.32 | CM | ScaredyCat: Ah, just wondered about that :-) |
| 21:10.25 | Elrond | root 1084 1082 2 03:39 ? 00:00:04 [openmoko-dialer] <defunct> |
| 21:10.30 | Elrond | root 1087 1082 4 03:39 ? 00:00:05 [matchbox-panel-] <defunct> |
| 21:10.36 | Elrond | Lot's of crashed stuff. ;o) |
| 21:11.04 | mickeyl | dialer and panel are gsmd related |
| 21:11.59 | ljp | ScaredyCat: the qtopia snapshots will work better :) |
| 21:11.59 | mickeyl | CM: no. there's a lenghty thread about that on the mailing list. bottom line: we _never_ ever are allowed to do that. you could patch it in if you want to, but on your own risk |
| 21:12.33 | CM | Ok |
| 21:12.51 | CM | But then there will never be any way to charge the neo from a simple charger? |
| 21:13.02 | CM | I mean enough to have it powered on continiously? |
| 21:13.05 | Elrond | mickeyl - Yes. I just removed openmoko-panel-gsm from the default panel plugins. Let's see, if my panel works better then. ;-) |
| 21:13.35 | ScaredyCat | ljp: read up... I found them, modified the .bb files to use them |
| 21:13.52 | ScaredyCat | although a minor hack for the srcdata |
| 21:13.58 | ScaredyCat | srcdate |
| 21:14.08 | thseiler | CM: I believe there is a trick with a pulldown resistor on pin 5. I would at least be possible to create a USB cable with such a resistor, that could then be used with any USB charger |
| 21:14.28 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:14.32 | CM | thseiler: Oh, that's good news. :) |
| 21:14.46 | Elrond | Huh, what's the charger issue? |
| 21:15.05 | ScaredyCat | just don't use it on a port that can't handle 500ma |
| 21:15.26 | CM | But how does that negotiation work? |
| 21:15.31 | SpeedEvil | thseiler: apparently not on the neo |
| 21:15.41 | CM | Will it automatically go up to 500 on a "dumb" charger? |
| 21:15.42 | SpeedEvil | No hardware to read this |
| 21:15.44 | ScaredyCat | I've no idea, ask SpeedEvil ;) |
| 21:15.53 | thseiler | SpeedEvil: ok, i probably mix up EZX with neo, sorry |
| 21:18.09 | juri_ | so, is today's openmoko build usable? |
| 21:18.44 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 21:19.46 | Elrond | mickeyl - Of course, when I have gdb connected to today, I can't crash it. ;o) |
| 21:20.56 | cakeface_ | Elrond: A watched pot never crashes... or something like that |
| 21:21.28 | thseiler | SpeedEvol |
| 21:21.59 | thseiler | SpeedEvil: Sorry, I must have mixed up something, i ment this bug : http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=685 |
| 21:22.25 | bedboi | where can i find the latest somewhat-usable image? |
| 21:23.35 | Elrond | bedboi - people.om.o/roh/ |
| 21:24.09 | mickeyl | Elrond: heh. Heisenbug |
| 21:28.08 | Elrond | gotcha. |
| 21:28.11 | zash` | on the charger issue: how about a small plug with usb-a-male == small chip that checks power and does the pin 5 resistor thing == usb-a-female |
| 21:28.20 | Elrond | Program exited with code 01. |
| 21:28.22 | Elrond | :-( |
| 21:28.33 | SpeedEvil | zash`: it can be worked round in software |
| 21:29.07 | SpeedEvil | zash`: you first turn on and listen for a host in suspend connected to the device. |
| 21:29.16 | SpeedEvil | if it is, you send the appropriate signals to wake it |
| 21:30.08 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek (n=b@ams122.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 21:30.16 | zdanek | hi all |
| 21:30.29 | SpeedEvil | if it's not, and there is no USB bus active there, then you turn on the charger after a couple of seconds delay. |
| 21:30.52 | SpeedEvil | Or whatever the specified minimum for USB-suspend saying 'no' is. |
| 21:31.34 | rwhitby | morning |
| 21:31.40 | zdanek | I'd like to ask how to remove package/application for real - because I'm running out of space and ipkg remove appname removes it from it's repository but no free space increases |
| 21:31.43 | SpeedEvil | perhaps. |
| 21:31.44 | zdanek | any ideas? |
| 21:32.12 | mickeyl | read up on jffs2. |
| 21:32.19 | rwhitby | zdanek: sometimes jffs2 takes a while to free space collect |
| 21:32.20 | mickeyl | it's some complicated allocation procedure |
| 21:32.36 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 21:33.31 | Elrond | zdanek - jffs2 will reacquire the free space, if it needs some for real. |
| 21:33.41 | ScaredyCat | The garbage collector runs in the background, turning dirty blocks into free blocks. It does this by copying valid nodes to a new block and skipping obsolete ones. That done, it erases the dirty block and tags it with a special marker designating it as a free block (to prevent confusion if power is lost during an erase operation). |
| 21:33.44 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-136-143.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:33.49 | ScaredyCat | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2 |
| 21:33.56 | SpeedEvil | zash`: yes, you basically have to find out that you're on a dumb charger byu it being a source of 5V that is not a functioning USB host |
| 21:34.23 | zdanek | can I call "garbage collector" manually? |
| 21:34.31 | SpeedEvil | At least with current hardware zash`. |
| 21:34.41 | zdanek | I've rebooted phone and nothing changes |
| 21:34.42 | zash` | :D |
| 21:35.11 | zash` | SpeedEvil: preferebly that would be in the pmu |
| 21:35.11 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: but you can't do any of that when the battery is dead |
| 21:35.33 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: no. But in principle, you can do it in early-uboot |
| 21:35.46 | Elrond | zdanek - Just try to use space. :-) |
| 21:35.46 | SpeedEvil | zash`: not for gTA01, or 02 at least |
| 21:36.00 | zdanek | elrond: :D |
| 21:36.26 | zdanek | is there any command like df that calculates real free space? |
| 21:37.35 | *** join/#openmoko Jens (n=55eb1451@207.250.49.24) |
| 21:38.12 | zash` | no df or du? |
| 21:38.46 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 21:39.12 | Writchie | except that to boot - you need to press buttons. Even the most primitive use case is plug a dead phone into a charger and have it charge overnight and we cannot meet that at present |
| 21:39.58 | *** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:40.01 | Writchie | however solution to this bug may at least make an overnight charge possible http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=762 |
| 21:40.12 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: RTC interrupt in principle |
| 21:40.25 | Writchie | not from dead battery |
| 21:40.37 | ScaredyCat | someone posted an interesting thought on the wiki... add DECT to the phone too ... |
| 21:40.46 | SpeedEvil | no - the PMU can be told to charge at 100mA when power comes back as far as I understand. |
| 21:40.53 | Writchie | if luser can be trained to not let the battery completely die then many things are possible |
| 21:40.56 | zdanek | zash: that's what confuses me - df shows disk usage befor garbage collecting |
| 21:40.56 | SpeedEvil | then you can wakeup on RTC |
| 21:41.19 | mickeyl | DECT is insane |
| 21:41.21 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: if you died you can't wake up |
| 21:41.29 | zash` | zdanek: try du -sh / |
| 21:41.40 | Writchie | i don't think there is any autoboot |
| 21:41.41 | ScaredyCat | mickeyl: ? why ? |
| 21:41.43 | zash` | DECT-usb-plugin? |
| 21:41.56 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: it has a bit of a bad reputation, emission wise. |
| 21:42.08 | mickeyl | besides, we have enough problems with 4 receivers, 3 senders in the Neo |
| 21:42.30 | mickeyl | getting RF to play along is very challenging |
| 21:42.30 | ScaredyCat | ahh you mean at board level... |
| 21:42.33 | mickeyl | right |
| 21:43.01 | Elrond | RF is such a complex beast. |
| 21:43.03 | ScaredyCat | shame... would be nice to have one device for everything |
| 21:43.05 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 21:43.28 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: yes. it'd be awesome. Even Laf0rge would like to have that |
| 21:43.30 | Elrond | At work we "only" work at about 100MHz - 310MHz, but it's still scarry. |
| 21:43.52 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - I don't want one device for everything. :-) |
| 21:43.57 | Elrond | At least not todays. |
| 21:44.06 | zdanek | zash: it's cosmicaly sloow :) |
| 21:44.11 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias__ (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 21:44.12 | ScaredyCat | heheh mickeyl... |
| 21:44.17 | zdanek | and counts with SD card |
| 21:44.26 | ScaredyCat | Elrond: then you buy the separates edition |
| 21:44.29 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 21:44.34 | zdanek | and with mounted volatile memory |
| 21:44.37 | zash` | zdanek: du -sh /path/to/sd/mount |
| 21:44.42 | zash` | then |
| 21:44.47 | zash` | and yes its slow |
| 21:45.08 | zash` | cus it checks all filesizes and adds them together |
| 21:45.15 | zdanek | i know |
| 21:45.38 | Elrond | zash - du -x -sh / |
| 21:45.42 | Elrond | -x := one fs. |
| 21:45.54 | zdanek | there's a new ver of SettingsGUI available to install from Ghiottone's repo |
| 21:46.00 | zdanek | I recommend it |
| 21:46.22 | zdanek | elrond: works great |
| 21:46.28 | zdanek | and fast |
| 21:46.41 | zdanek | but what is the size of Flash memo? |
| 21:46.52 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 21:46.52 | zdanek | I get 119MB of data |
| 21:47.07 | zdanek | isn't it 64M at Flash? |
| 21:47.36 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@user-0cdft28.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 21:47.42 | mjr | yes, but jffs2 is compressed |
| 21:47.54 | zdanek | okay |
| 21:48.00 | mickeyl | this is why jffs2 is so slow |
| 21:48.04 | zdanek | :) |
| 21:48.22 | mickeyl | might think about a cramfs for the static stuff once we are near a release |
| 21:48.28 | zdanek | damn, I'm having some problems with packages lately |
| 21:48.29 | zdanek | Configuring openmoko-icon-theme-standard2 |
| 21:48.30 | zdanek | Failed to write hash table |
| 21:48.30 | zdanek | postinst script returned status 1 |
| 21:48.30 | zdanek | ERROR: openmoko-icon-theme-standard2.postinst returned 1 |
| 21:48.43 | zdanek | everytime I do some upgrade |
| 21:48.50 | mickeyl | eeks. that looks like your fs is full |
| 21:48.59 | zdanek | bingo! |
| 21:48.59 | mjr | mickeyl, or mlock() for major proc/libs? |
| 21:49.12 | zdanek | so that's why I came here :] |
| 21:49.26 | mickeyl | mjr: interesting. |
| 21:49.43 | mickeyl | zdanek: try removing some files you don't need, then reboot, then ipkg again |
| 21:49.45 | zdanek | df says 1.1M free |
| 21:49.48 | mickeyl | eeks |
| 21:49.51 | mickeyl | that's more than full |
| 21:50.07 | zdanek | I removed Midori and no change |
| 21:50.07 | mickeyl | allow jffs2 ~15% of the total flash for housekeeping |
| 21:50.13 | mickeyl | otherwise you run into trouble |
| 21:50.16 | mjr | I mean, I wondered earlier if a tmpfs for selected things could possibly be a good idea, but mlock might just be simpler... |
| 21:50.19 | zdanek | I'm into |
| 21:50.24 | ljp | mickeyl: pm |
| 21:50.27 | ScaredyCat | ipkg remove all-that-porn |
| 21:50.31 | zdanek | ehehe |
| 21:50.39 | *** part/#openmoko vato2 (n=vatoz@rb5db91.net.upc.cz) |
| 21:50.40 | mickeyl | zdanek: like i said, remove some files (not ipkg remove, real 'rm'), reboot, then ipkg again |
| 21:50.45 | mickeyl | ljp: ok? |
| 21:50.47 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-159-183.37-151.net24.it) |
| 21:50.51 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@45.80-202-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:51.08 | zdanek | but nothing to remove because all I have are app installed via ipkg :( |
| 21:51.33 | mickeyl | erm |
| 21:51.50 | mickeyl | the only way to get out of this situation is to remove some files |
| 21:51.53 | zdanek | I think I will reflash FS and set ipkg to put files on SD |
| 21:51.55 | mickeyl | that's all i can say |
| 21:52.12 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 21:52.22 | pavelm | Hello, everyone |
| 21:52.25 | mickeyl | hi pavelm |
| 21:52.27 | zecke | hi pavel |
| 21:52.33 | mickeyl | bbiab |
| 21:52.57 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@c-69-143-234-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:53.03 | Elrond | zdanek - rm /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/startup_openmoko.wav |
| 21:53.08 | zdanek | hi pavelm |
| 21:53.32 | pavelm | Hi zecke/mickeyl! |
| 21:53.32 | Elrond | (that vies 1.7M) |
| 21:53.44 | pavelm | Pretty full of developers here :-). |
| 21:53.45 | zdanek | elrond: I will because I always remove it from pulse/session :D |
| 21:54.08 | pavelm | Hi zdanek, nice to see someone from eastern europe here ;-) |
| 21:54.44 | pavelm | Q: is there some reasonably recent image available? I could flash scaredycat's image, but I guess something newer is probably available...? |
| 21:54.49 | zdanek | pavelm: yeah! the same thought :D |
| 21:55.30 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 21:55.46 | Elrond | pavelm - ipkg upgrade? ;o) |
| 21:56.20 | pavelm | scaredycat: sorry ;-). can I have url again? I have one of your images here, but not url any more :-( |
| 21:56.21 | Elrond | zdanek - /usr/share/openmoko/sounds has more files to kill. ;o) |
| 21:56.34 | zdanek | elrond: i can see |
| 21:56.35 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ |
| 21:56.48 | zdanek | especially notify_doorbell.wav |
| 21:56.54 | zdanek | doubled with .mp3 |
| 21:57.20 | pavelm | elrond: It contains qtopia just now, I do not think I want ipkg update. |
| 21:58.14 | Elrond | pavelm - Ahh, okay. |
| 21:58.19 | pavelm | scaredycat: I see you have qtopia images... did you experiment with qtopia and X in same image? |
| 21:58.31 | ScaredyCat | actually you can ipkg update |
| 21:58.35 | ScaredyCat | even with qtopia |
| 21:58.38 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 21:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 21:59.02 | pavelm | ...even with qtopia from trolltech? |
| 21:59.09 | ScaredyCat | pavelm: no, not yet, I was getting a good qtopia build first... |
| 21:59.17 | ScaredyCat | yes... |
| 21:59.27 | ScaredyCat | it's an oe build |
| 21:59.43 | ScaredyCat | so you get ipk's too |
| 22:00.26 | zdanek | I need rest otherwise I will crush my nose falling on the keyboard :) |
| 22:00.40 | pavelm | scaredycat: OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070921-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 is reasonable/current image to use...? |
| 22:00.46 | zdanek | goodnight guys |
| 22:01.00 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.212.210) |
| 22:01.06 | pavelm | goodnight zdanek. At least you are not going full day on horseback tommorow. |
| 22:01.07 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20070921-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 22:01.14 | ScaredyCat | is from today |
| 22:01.27 | ScaredyCat | 17:33 CET |
| 22:01.31 | zdanek | yeah |
| 22:01.37 | zdanek | cu |
| 22:01.44 | pavelm | cu |
| 22:02.00 | mwester | cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 |
| 22:02.12 | mwester | (sorry - bad pun) |
| 22:02.16 | pavelm | scaredycat: I see the timestamp, but there's openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 ... which looks reasonable, too. |
| 22:02.29 | ScaredyCat | it's the same file |
| 22:02.34 | ScaredyCat | (symlink) |
| 22:02.47 | pavelm | scaredycat: Aha, so _that_ is the detail I did not see :-) |
| 22:03.02 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 22:03.25 | ScaredyCat | buy a tomtom :P |
| 22:03.39 | Elrond | s/tomtom/garmin/ ;o) |
| 22:03.48 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 22:03.49 | Elrond | Where are the alsa state files gone? |
| 22:03.58 | ScaredyCat | /etc/ |
| 22:04.02 | pavelm | scaredycat: I already have fortuna handheld GPS. |
| 22:04.09 | pavelm | scaredycat; and pygps already beats _that_. |
| 22:04.28 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - Oh, directly under /etc/. Who invented that? |
| 22:04.30 | ScaredyCat | does it work well? (pygps?) |
| 22:04.36 | pavelm | ...plus I keep claiming that openmoko is terrible phone but quite good GPS. |
| 22:04.52 | ScaredyCat | Elrond: dunno, they moved from /etc/alsa to /etc |
| 22:05.08 | pavelm | scaredycat: reasonably well. shows position, shows sattelites, shows map with arrow "here you are". |
| 22:05.16 | ScaredyCat | cool |
| 22:05.20 | pavelm | ...yep, it works quite well. |
| 22:05.36 | ScaredyCat | is that with *ahem* a chroot environment ? |
| 22:06.00 | pavelm | yes, I need chroot environment for gllin :-( |
| 22:06.11 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 22:07.39 | pavelm | is there some development on the gllin side, btw? Like "at least statically linked gllin"? |
| 22:08.04 | zecke | pavelm: hehe, don't ask for statically linked glibc binaries |
| 22:08.32 | pavelm | zecke: still better than chroot with all the neccessary libraries, right? |
| 22:08.57 | zecke | pavelm: no, you can't do statically linked glibc binaries. |
| 22:09.09 | zecke | pavelm: they will still do dlopen on the nss stuff... |
| 22:09.34 | Clint | unless you disable the nss calls |
| 22:09.52 | pavelm | zecke: ouch :-(. does the gllin actually use the nss stuff...? I guess so, for aGPS support... :-( |
| 22:09.53 | ScaredyCat | we'd settle for the soruce then zecke ;) |
| 22:09.54 | zecke | Clint: at that point you can use uclibc as well... |
| 22:10.19 | pavelm | scaredycat: actually documentation would work, too ;-) |
| 22:10.58 | Elrond | Playing WAVE 'ringtone_classy.wav': Yuck, that one is loud! |
| 22:12.20 | mwester | Or maybe we can all go beg at Broadcom's corporate HQ to see if there's some way, any way, perhaps they can free up someone to rebuild gllin. How long can that take - 20 minutes on a P-III? |
| 22:12.37 | cjb | gllin is Broadcom? |
| 22:12.43 | mwester | They are now. |
| 22:12.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Mokopedia]] |
| 22:12.51 | cjb | huh. |
| 22:12.59 | mwester | That explains a lot, doesn't it? |
| 22:13.07 | ScaredyCat | hehe |
| 22:13.24 | *** join/#openmoko ronwe (n=jesse@c-68-52-17-9.hsd1.ky.comcast.net) |
| 22:13.32 | pavelm | scaredycat: I had some talk with people at #qtopia, and qtopia should be able to run in X window, using qvfb or something. |
| 22:13.32 | mwester | I can see it: 1 developer, who could compile it and email it out in 20 minutes on one side of the room. |
| 22:13.44 | pavelm | ...that should make integration with rest of openmoko possible. |
| 22:14.04 | mwester | On the other: Broadcom's fleet of 10,000 lawyers confering among themselves to see how they get out of the contract. |
| 22:14.10 | ScaredyCat | pavelm: ahh ok, i did see the -no-qvfb option in the build... |
| 22:14.17 | ScaredyCat | I'll try one without it |
| 22:14.32 | pavelm | scaredycat: Yes, that would be useful. |
| 22:14.59 | pavelm | mwester: They don't have to get out of the contract. Send us the sources and we'll quietly go away ;-). |
| 22:16.02 | mwester | That's exactly what Broadcom is trying NOT to do -- they have a record of obfuscation, legaleze bigger than the source code, all designed to make it hard for opensource. I'm pretty sure they really don't want to even release a binary driver. |
| 22:16.23 | mwester | I cannot believe that the issue is technical in nature any longer. |
| 22:16.32 | CM | pavelm: About adding a program to the menu, add .desktop files to /opt/Qtopia/apps (might be /home/Updates/apps in the 4.3 image) |
| 22:17.03 | Elrond | mwester - jurisdical-technical. ;o) |
| 22:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 22:19.04 | pavelm | mwester: I know. I just wonder what they gain from this :-( |
| 22:19.42 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 22:19.52 | casten | have a nice weekend folks |
| 22:20.21 | mwester | I've worked with large corporations in negotiations for a number of years -- it's not so much a matter of gain, it's just the corporate culture. "Preventionism" is the term I heard used once to describe it. |
| 22:20.27 | pavelm | CM: I have no /home/Updates, and no /opt/Qtopia/apps :-( |
| 22:20.52 | CM | pavelm: Oh.. Hmm.. Just picked that up in #qtopia while you were offline |
| 22:20.53 | pavelm | mwester: Unfortunately I work for one such big dinosaur, too, these days :-( |
| 22:21.08 | pavelm | CM: thanks ;-) |
| 22:21.52 | CM | pavelm: Anyway, ljp said that adding the .desktop file in the right folder would work, so I guess you can find where it is :) |
| 22:21.57 | pavelm | CM: anyway, that would allow me to run scripts, but not gtk+ stuff, so I guess I'll try merging qtopia into X images, first. |
| 22:22.06 | CM | Ok, cool. :) |
| 22:22.24 | pavelm | CM: yep, unfortunately I do not know what structure .desktop file should have, so that will have to wait. |
| 22:23.35 | CM | I think it's a standard format, just look at any .desktop file on your desktop :) |
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| 22:28.21 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F090.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 22:43.41 | zash` | poor keyboard, all alone :( |
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| 22:45.45 | pavelm_afc | poor CM's keyboard can talk to my console ;-) |
| 22:47.17 | pavelm_afc | scaredycat: so I flashed your image... it seems gsmd still does not work :-(. |
| 22:47.36 | CM | pavelm_afc: Using the latest kernel? |
| 22:48.06 | CM | ScaredyCat: Are there any patches applied? |
| 22:48.37 | pavelm_afc | CM: using http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r2-fic-gta01.bin |
| 22:48.41 | CM | I've only gotten gsmd working once, and that was the build on september third. Since then it's never worked |
| 22:48.51 | CM | I'm using that one too, but with qtopia right now |
| 22:49.06 | CM | ScaredyCat's latest build version |
| 22:49.20 | CM | And calls and sms work just fine |
| 22:51.15 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D82B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:51.52 | pavelm_afc | cm: I've seen gsmd working randomly -- like on some boots it worked, in most it did not; and it can be usually brought back to liefe by starting it manually. |
| 22:52.10 | CM | rwhitby talked about some timing issues |
| 22:52.19 | CM | But I don't know what they were |
| 22:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (n=kwkw@77-56-75-225.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 22:53.56 | CM | night |
| 22:53.57 | rwhitby | CM: my timing stuff was actually just the registration state machine, which was fixed. |
| 22:54.04 | pavelm_afc | good night. |
| 22:55.31 | *** join/#openmoko the_void (n=jim@87.233.95.91.static.ter-os.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 22:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f048045232.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:57.33 | cesarb | hm, funny, I see changes in gsmd in OE instead of in OM as I would expect... |
| 22:57.38 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 23:01.07 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 23:01.47 | cesarb | And emotion is still broken in OE, preventing me from compiling the feed. |
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| 23:09.05 | *** join/#openmoko andylockran (n=andylock@genesis.zrmt.com) |
| 23:11.01 | cesarb | 2928, 2992... |
| 23:12.03 | pavelm_afc | noone cares about amd64 :-). |
| 23:12.20 | pavelm_afc | ...unless you have >2G of ram, it only slows you down. |
| 23:12.39 | thomasg | cesarb: I set up a debian i386 chroot under my gentoo amd64 system for openembedded :) |
| 23:12.49 | cesarb | pavelm_afc: even with the DOUBLING of the number of registers? |
| 23:13.01 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 23:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 23:13.27 | cesarb | thomasg: hah. I'm more persistent than you... I insisted on using /bin/dash as /bin/sh when everyone was saying it shouldn't be done (and, in fact, am still using it) |
| 23:14.00 | pavelm_afc | cesarb: Mostly yes. Because it also _doubles_ pointer size. |
| 23:14.00 | Knirch | brrr posix |
| 23:14.08 | Knirch | :) |
| 23:14.11 | thomasg | cesarb: I had no problem with building the openmoko-devel-image under my amd64 system. but as soon I was trying something more special, I ran into trouble |
| 23:14.16 | pavelm_afc | ...and pointer size actually matters, as you have to transfer that out of main memory. |
| 23:14.45 | cesarb | thomasg: only gentoo people seem to be having trouble building things under amd64 (that is, until bug 2928 started breaking things) |
| 23:15.20 | cesarb | pavelm_afc: do you have any benchmarks that show running in pure-64 mode actually slows things down? |
| 23:15.49 | cesarb | (I don't have any benchmarks at all) |
| 23:16.34 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-72-177-114-179.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 23:16.43 | cesarb | Until I see hard benchmarks, with the slowest grade of DDR-2 memory (which is what I have), I'm more inclined to believe all these things about 64-bit mode slowing you down even with the extra registers are nothing more than FUD |
| 23:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers_ (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 23:17.11 | pavelm_afc | cesarb: I saw such benchmarks some time ago. Jan Hubicka was working hard to make most benchmarks as fast as i386, but it was impossible for pointer-heavy applications. |
| 23:17.19 | pavelm_afc | cesarb: Get SPEC comparisons somewhere. |
| 23:18.05 | pavelm_afc | uhuh, just copying /opt from qtopia into scaredycat's images does most of the trick, good. |
| 23:18.09 | pavelm_afc | qpe start, and qpe comes up. |
| 23:18.28 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 23:19.45 | jseghers_ | so... what's with gsmd these days? I had things working a couple of weeks ago, but now it seems to be having problems again... do I need to put back in the gsmd stop/gsmd start in the matchbox session? |
| 23:20.23 | mwester | Yes. |
| 23:20.38 | mwester | The problem is exactly that: there's nothing with gsmd these days! :p |
| 23:21.37 | jseghers_ | mwester: I'd noticed there were changes to libgsmd...and theres been changes in the Dialer. I now get "Dialer: Error setting antenna power when it boots |
| 23:22.16 | pavelm_afc | bye bye everyone. Seems like qpe integration was easier then expected... but I have to disconnect network for testing. |
| 23:22.18 | *** join/#openmoko thseiler (n=Thomas@195.176.215.27) |
| 23:22.29 | mwester | s/things/thinks |
| 23:23.47 | mwester | I looked at gsmd for while last night. It really can't be that big a problem to resolve, but it would take a lot of effort to understand the code, and there's been nothing but total and absolute silence from the OM core team on the future of gsmd. |
| 23:24.04 | jseghers_ | huh |
| 23:25.06 | cesarb | mwester: I tried as hard as I could in bug 766, and failed |
| 23:25.34 | cesarb | mwester: with my patch on that bug it works fine, IF it gets an answer from the modem. The problem is that sometimes the modem doesn't answer! |
| 23:26.10 | cesarb | mwester: and I exausthed all my guesses as to the cause |
| 23:26.50 | cesarb | (btw, this is why I sort of "went silent" for the last week... sorta got too annoyed at my failing at finding the root cause, and gave the whole of openmoko a break) |
| 23:28.52 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
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| 23:30.23 | jseghers_ | yep, putting the stop/start back into session "cured" it... was able to place a call. |
| 23:31.03 | cesarb | jseghers_: I'm refusing to use such a non-fix |
| 23:31.11 | mwester | cesarb: the *IF* part is where I got stumped as well. |
| 23:32.04 | cesarb | mwester: yeah, it's pretty annoying, even more since we cannot look at the other side! (the FIC guys perhaps can...) |
| 23:32.11 | mwester | cesarb: I cannot reproduce the problem with cu, or any other tool -- looking that the kernel counters, the serial driver reports data the moment the modem powers on and the CTS line is enabled. |
| 23:32.51 | cesarb | mwester: did you try with the two debug patches I added to bug 766 (not the main one which fixes the bug I found, but the other two ones which only print stuff), or some equivalent? |
| 23:32.52 | jseghers_ | cesarb: I can understand that... I can't take such a viewpoint since I need call processing to test the stuff I'm working with... so I just need it to work...whatever workarounds I have to use |
| 23:33.18 | cesarb | mwester: it can be really enlightening, since it reports what gsmd is *actually* sending to the modem, not just what it has queued to send |
| 23:33.24 | mwester | I came to the conclusion that writing a mock gsmd from scratch to duplicate the initial handshake might be the next logical step in debugging, but that's where I began to wonder if the effort would be time well spent or not. :( |
| 23:33.26 | Elrond | So how to play "Pattern" without a right mouse button? ;o) |
| 23:33.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03zecke * r3031 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-browser2/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 23:33.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 2007-09-21 Holger 'Siddhartha' Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 23:33.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Make the "GO"-Page, "Open-Pages"-Page and the "Current"-Page |
| 23:33.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: share a GtkListStore. This avoids to recreate it in Open-Page on every |
| 23:33.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: activation, will keep the GtkTreeSelection and will help us to |
| 23:33.42 | CIA-23 | openmoko: bind that to JavaScript. |
| 23:33.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: |
| 23:33.52 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03zecke * r3030 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-browser2/ (ChangeLog src/browser-data.h): |
| 23:33.55 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 2007-09-21 Holger 'Siddhartha' Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 23:33.57 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Place the asterisk right. |
| 23:34.01 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/browser-data.h: |
| 23:34.14 | mwester | cesarb: I knew you were working on it, but I didnt' think to check a bug report for patches. I'll take a look, and poke around a bit more. |
| 23:35.46 | cesarb | mwester: please do, especially with the debug patch which prints what is actually sent. without that one, you are debugging in the blind :P (and I do think it should be added upstream, it's that useful) |
| 23:36.13 | cesarb | (there is no need for a patch reporting what was actually *received*, since upstream gsmd already does that) |
| 23:37.45 | mwester | Good grief - that's good information in that bug report. It also confirms that there are some issues in the code to be worked out yet... |
| 23:38.14 | cesarb | mwester: yeah, I went a bit too offtopic in that bug report, and dumped everything I found out in it |
| 23:38.56 | cesarb | mwester: the bug itself is already fixed (the main patch attached to that bug fixes it)... but I couldn't let it go... |
| 23:39.49 | mwester | I started from the other end, actually. I presumed that we might have a bug in the serial driver, and started investigating there. I didn't record the debugging details, however. |
| 23:40.38 | mwester | Basically what I found is that if you power up the modem, nothing will happen until you enable CRTSCTS - at that point the modem will dump the accumulated data (the greeting usually). |
| 23:41.44 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 23:41.53 | mwester | If you toggle the modem and mess with the serial port enough before the CRTSCTS line is set, it still works -- but the driver gets strange data - most often a buffer overrun, but sometimes a framing error from the UART, and in some cases break characters. |
| 23:42.30 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 23:42.31 | mwester | None-the-less, it all stabilized quickly, and everything I tried resulted in a response of "OK" to the "AT" command. |
| 23:44.56 | cesarb | mwester: hm... but on my gsmd tests, sometimes ATZ doesn't get an answer... sometimes _ATE0V1_ doesn't get an answer, even if ATZ just got an answer... and it only happens on the first power up, if you kill gsmd and restart it (by hand, not init script), it works |
| 23:45.08 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@20132173066.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 23:45.26 | cesarb | mwester: and I failed to find any hypothesis to explain that behaviour |
| 23:46.54 | jseghers_ | One thing I noticed a couple of weeks ago (with start/stop in session file) was that if I booted the neo from cold (battery out) the radio would NOT come up. If I then rebooted the phone, it would come online. |
| 23:49.17 | cesarb | jseghers_: that was my main testcase (no start/stop in session file, though) |
| 23:49.33 | cesarb | jseghers_: pull the battery, wait a bit, put battery in (no SIM), and boot |
| 23:49.44 | cesarb | jseghers_: it gets reproducibly stuck (the modem doesn't answer) |
| 23:50.44 | cesarb | jseghers_: specifically, the modem didn't answer to the initial ATZ (perhaps sometimes it got to the ATE0V1 before not answering, don't remember), which got everything stuck |
| 23:50.49 | bedboi | how to activate gsm? |
| 23:50.53 | bedboi | on 2007.2? |
| 23:51.05 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 23:51.15 | cesarb | jseghers_: then, I kill -9 gsmd and start it by hand (no init script, no modem power fiddling)... and it works, showing the modem wasn't hung after all! |
| 23:51.18 | cesarb | wait... |
| 23:51.30 | cesarb | when I kill -9 gsmd |
| 23:51.35 | cesarb | it closes the UART fd |
| 23:51.43 | cesarb | what does the kernel do when that happens? |
| 23:51.53 | cesarb | I'd suppose it _drops flow control_! |
| 23:52.49 | cesarb | perhaps if I made gsmd also drop flow control (RTS or CTS, always forget which is in and which is out) and then release it again... |
| 23:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@206.219.197.100) |
| 23:53.27 | jaebird | i'm for the blackberry/moto usb dumb charging technique...but neo can't detect? |
| 23:53.47 | jaebird | can G |
| 23:53.54 | jaebird | can GTA02? |
| 23:54.19 | jseghers_ | cesarb: ugh! |
| 23:54.24 | jaebird | my place of biz does NOT allow personal devices to be connected to work machines |
| 23:54.27 | cesarb | jaebird: no, and harald (IIRC) already said detecting whether D+ is shorted to D- on the USB cable is too complex |
| 23:54.53 | jaebird | "too complex" |
| 23:54.58 | cesarb | jaebird: (I had a bug report on it on openmoko) |
| 23:55.24 | cesarb | jaebird: well, actually there's more to that in the specification... it says _how_ you are supposed to detect that short, and perhaps that's what is too complex to do |
| 23:55.32 | jaebird | then we need to get a usb hub chip and stick it in a "dumb" charger to make it a "smart" charger |
| 23:55.34 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A55683.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:55.43 | cesarb | jaebird: you cannot just randomly pull the line up |
| 23:56.17 | jaebird | this issue just seems so silly...especially with china "requiring" usb chargeble devices now |
| 23:56.18 | cesarb | jaebird: one thing you can do is to simply add a u-boot menu entry to enable autofast, and also add a menu entry to the main GTK UI to do the same |
| 23:56.29 | cesarb | jaebird: plug the dumb charger, enable autofast, done |
| 23:56.34 | jaebird | cesarb: that is good, wiki? |
| 23:57.02 | cesarb | jaebird: a very smart implementation could even disable autofast after it stops charging (charger removed), so you would not forget it enabled by accident... |
| 23:57.10 | jaebird | u-boot already...but need it for when powered on and booted |
| 23:57.22 | mwester | cesarb: That's a good thought. You actually have no control over the CTS line with the serial driver if its in flowcontrol mode, so you need to turn off and on CRTSCTS mode. |
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| 23:57.48 | mwester | There are actually no modem control signals on the serial port, just CTS and RTS -- the others are just dummied up by the driver. |
| 23:57.53 | cesarb | jaebird: I don't recall where the uboot trick is on the wiki (speedevil can give you a premade menu recipe for it), but for the linux kernel you just have to fiddle with the mode in sysfs (you want fast_cccv) |
| 23:58.30 | cesarb | mwester: well, actually, if it's what I'm thinking, you just have to close the fd and reopen it (perhaps with a sleep() in the middle) |
| 23:59.13 | jaebird | i think the "just works" philosophy should be applied to this |
| 23:59.17 | cesarb | mwester: I'd have to dive in linux's scary tty layer to check if it does clear the flow control when closing, however |
| 23:59.30 | mwester | If you close the fd, the tty settings will revert to what they previously were - (and it does clear the flow control on close) |
| 23:59.40 | jaebird | especially when the "big" vendors have already solved the problem |
| 23:59.51 | cesarb | !ombug 685 |
