| 00:00.04 | obnauticus | Is all the info of the OpenMoko freed? |
| 00:00.12 | obnauticus | like i understand what that means |
| 00:00.17 | obnauticus | but can i use ANY gsm with any provider anywhere |
| 00:00.20 | obnauticus | no locks or anything.. |
| 00:00.23 | obnauticus | any sim card* |
| 00:00.28 | SpeedEvil | OpenMoko is the linux open-source project |
| 00:00.35 | obnauticus | WEll, you could just say it's not gay.. |
| 00:00.38 | obnauticus | that would cover all basis :P |
| 00:00.39 | Aria | The Neo1973 is not sim-locked, no. |
| 00:00.40 | mmazur | obnauticus, if it's a gsm compatible with openmoko, then sure. |
| 00:00.43 | SpeedEvil | The Neo1973 is the unlocked GSM phone which it's fiurst implemented on. |
| 00:00.43 | Writchie | obnauticus: just about anywhere - a very few black networks |
| 00:00.46 | mmazur | obnauticus, no sim-locks. |
| 00:00.50 | obnauticus | Okay. |
| 00:00.57 | SpeedEvil | Other than bug 666. |
| 00:01.00 | Aria | obnauticus: mine's gay. But it works wonderfully. |
| 00:01.08 | obnauticus | That's too bad i would have to pay for service from an other provider (ie. AT&T) |
| 00:01.13 | SpeedEvil | (problems with some 3G SIMs) |
| 00:01.19 | manyoso | Writchie: with a gsm sim, how can there be any black networks? |
| 00:01.39 | manyoso | obnauticus: tmobile is gsm too |
| 00:01.42 | Writchie | the carriers still have the ability to reject the IMEI |
| 00:01.49 | Writchie | a couplel do |
| 00:02.07 | SpeedEvil | Some blacklist non 3G phones |
| 00:02.23 | manyoso | oh... so wouldn't want them anyway |
| 00:02.25 | SpeedEvil | as they have a 3G network, but use others networks for 2G |
| 00:02.36 | Writchie | the argument can be for example, that half rate codec not supported by model x |
| 00:02.42 | SpeedEvil | so it costs them significantly if your phone can't use it at all. |
| 00:02.58 | Writchie | AT&T would love to do this and may in the future |
| 00:03.13 | Writchie | the only thing keeping AT&T/Cingular at bay is t-mobile |
| 00:03.24 | Aria | Indeed. |
| 00:03.29 | SpeedEvil | '3' in the UK have even supplied phones with glued-in SIMs |
| 00:03.43 | SpeedEvil | Though that was PAYG handsets sold at a considerable loss. |
| 00:04.07 | manyoso | an unlocked gsm phone with wifi is going to really cut into these cell providers profits --> voip |
| 00:04.12 | SpeedEvil | 3G/video-calling for 40 quid IIRC |
| 00:04.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] |
| 00:04.24 | Writchie | manyoso: no really |
| 00:04.29 | Writchie | s/no/not/ |
| 00:04.51 | Writchie | a GSM network operator is selling mobility |
| 00:05.04 | Writchie | actually ubiquitous mobility |
| 00:05.10 | manyoso | why not? at&t won't like it. |
| 00:05.20 | manyoso | no need to use minutes |
| 00:05.34 | Writchie | the carriers don't want night time free calls killing the network |
| 00:05.44 | manyoso | tmobile recently made this work on a special plan |
| 00:05.49 | Writchie | there is no capacity to support the schemes they have dreamed up |
| 00:06.06 | manyoso | yah, but if they had the capacity you can be sure they wouldn't like it |
| 00:06.08 | Writchie | they would rather offload the network with UMA at home |
| 00:06.33 | SpeedEvil | If revenue goes down this may not be bad for the mobile company. |
| 00:06.39 | SpeedEvil | If costs go down further |
| 00:06.46 | Writchie | data i've seen has US average users at 800 minutes per month. |
| 00:06.49 | SpeedEvil | that's what some hope that UMA will do. |
| 00:06.49 | Lynet | UMA requires support from the cell provider, right? it isn't a service that someone unrealted to your cell provider can offer? |
| 00:06.57 | SpeedEvil | yes Lynet. |
| 00:06.59 | Lynet | s/unrealted/unrelated |
| 00:07.08 | SpeedEvil | It's basically a GSM tower on your phones network. |
| 00:07.13 | Writchie | UMA needs support from operator and phone |
| 00:07.25 | Writchie | it's actually quite slick |
| 00:07.26 | SpeedEvil | But the GSM tower is really connected via wifi, not GSM |
| 00:07.46 | Lynet | Writchie: Is it actually implemented in real world? I know Nokia did a trial. |
| 00:07.58 | Writchie | but good performance requires end to end QoS between your homebroadband and the operator |
| 00:08.09 | Writchie | Lynet: t-mobile is in operation with it today in the US |
| 00:08.43 | Writchie | Lynet: it requires a UMA phone and there are only two I know of |
| 00:09.13 | Writchie | Lynet: UMA spec requires Bluetooth Class 1 plus WiFi. |
| 00:09.28 | Lynet | Why BT? |
| 00:10.26 | SpeedEvil | It also requires support in the GSM modem. |
| 00:10.38 | SpeedEvil | So it's unlikely to ever work on the neo seamlessly |
| 00:10.46 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it |
| 00:10.58 | *** join/#openmoko hozer (n=hozer@excalibur.hozed.org) |
| 00:11.07 | rwhitby | morning |
| 00:11.08 | hozer | question.. |
| 00:11.14 | dkr | hrm, wardriving GAN/UMA. fun |
| 00:11.16 | hozer | how do I change the boot splash screens? |
| 00:11.17 | SpeedEvil | answer. |
| 00:11.21 | hozer | :P |
| 00:11.27 | Lynet | Ok, so it is a 'virtual cell tower' over 802.11/BT/IP? |
| 00:12.00 | Lynet | Never mind, found wikipedia article. ;-) |
| 00:12.09 | dkr | Lynet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network |
| 00:14.17 | abraxa_ | hozer: Might wanna check out the uBoot docs/wiki and see how splash screens are created/handled - updating it via dfu-util should be straightforward |
| 00:14.59 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z5d55.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:16.11 | hozer | what does the splash after the kernel boots? usplash? |
| 00:17.42 | abraxa_ | No idea, sorry |
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| 00:18.39 | dkr | how are the 100MB and 500MB version of wikipedia stripped down for mokopedia? by article popularity? or just grabs first paragraph of each article? |
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| 00:19.34 | obnauticus | In the future will other features such as multi SIM and other stuff be supported |
| 00:19.48 | obnauticus | that would be cool if you could put all your sim cards into one phone and select which network you want to auth on |
| 00:20.09 | Aria | That might take support in the GSM modem |
| 00:20.21 | Aria | Which is not the most open hardware on the market. (just a very separate (serial)) interface to use it.) |
| 00:21.40 | obnauticus | Well I would love an openmoko if it had everything, but everything can have anything |
| 00:21.40 | obnauticus | lol. |
| 00:21.40 | obnauticus | I honor the concept though :/ |
| 00:21.50 | roh | wtf? bwahaha |
| 00:22.02 | roh | qt-x11-free vulnerability |
| 00:22.03 | roh | CVE-2007-4137 |
| 00:22.07 | roh | what a timing |
| 00:22.14 | Aria | Hah, nice |
| 00:22.47 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A57BF3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:22.53 | roh | obnauticus will not happen. you only can book in one simcard per modem. |
| 00:22.53 | hozer | obnauticus: search for 'Dual Sim' on the wiki |
| 00:23.05 | hozer | roh: you sure? |
| 00:23.15 | roh | hozer yes. |
| 00:23.29 | hozer | two dual-sim vendors I found claim you can select the sim you want from a phone menu |
| 00:23.44 | roh | hozer i only know of one phone which has 2 slots and can book in 2 cards and it has 2 radios (and eats batterys like hell) |
| 00:23.48 | orzo | i've missed out on about a month of openmoko devel |
| 00:24.04 | orzo | any nice progress? |
| 00:24.10 | orzo | heh |
| 00:24.16 | roh | the dual-sim adapters which work by putting 2 sims into one adapter which then goes into the phone only enable you to choose which one is booked in |
| 00:24.16 | hozer | roh: this company also claims to have a SIM reader that can put up to 16 sims onto a single card |
| 00:24.45 | Ghiottone | I get this error while doing an ext2ls mmc 0 /: bad MBR sector signature 0xf133 |
| 00:24.47 | hozer | roh: yeah, at the very least you could make it all under software control by the neo phone, and just power off then power on the gsm modem to switch |
| 00:24.48 | Ghiottone | any tip? |
| 00:24.54 | orzo | is there a place to donate phones |
| 00:25.05 | obnauticus | Oh, that's cool |
| 00:25.08 | roh | hozer not planned atm. |
| 00:26.08 | hozer | but I haven't gone an bought one yet to try it |
| 00:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko sagaci1 (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 00:27.22 | roh | hozer also that bt-sim-sharing will not happen soon. the simcard reader is only connected to the gsm modem. the only wire to the app--cpu is card detect, so the arm knows if a sim is there |
| 00:28.27 | hozer | how hard would it be to rework an unused GPIO to connect to a sim-sharing thing? |
| 00:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate_ (n=Devestat@75.129.169.81) |
| 00:28.52 | hozer | .. that is assuming you have someone that can do reworks. |
| 00:29.23 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-62.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 00:29.48 | rwhitby | Avast! Arrr - m' neo don't boot after flashing ye scurvy dog qtopia image. (today is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Talk_Like_a_Pirate_Day) |
| 00:29.48 | abraxa_ | hozer: And assuming there are unused GPIOs. |
| 00:30.35 | Ghiottone | rofl |
| 00:30.45 | Writchie | hozer: IIRC correctly you would have to power just one SIM at time or multiplex some of the pins e.g. with an ASIC. The cards are ISO/IEC 7816-3 standard |
| 00:30.49 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@c-69-143-234-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:30.57 | mwester | rwhitby: Works For Me (tm) |
| 00:31.04 | hozer | Writchie: check out one of the dual-sim vendors.. someone's already got the asic |
| 00:31.23 | Ghiottone | any advice for me? I'm trying to boot from SD but the u-boot doesn't seem to read ext2 partitions |
| 00:31.40 | Writchie | hozer: its a relatively simple protocol - more an issue of real-estate |
| 00:31.46 | mwester | hozer: just get a pay-as-you-go SIM - $5 on eBay, and no swapping required. |
| 00:32.13 | Ghiottone | I get errors running mmcinit |
| 00:33.02 | Writchie | hozer: GSM specs require that ME has ability of initiating warm reset of the SIM card. |
| 00:34.53 | rwhitby | mwester: I'll af ta take a look with me good eye - I think the nand erase took a broadside to me timbers. Arrr! |
| 00:35.38 | mwester | take care that hook doesn't catch in the jffs2. |
| 00:41.17 | hozer | mwester: I was comparing carriers :P |
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| 01:02.30 | juri_ | whats the maximum sized memory card i can fit in my openmoko? |
| 01:05.15 | mjr | recently microSDHC feasibility has been pretty much verified, so currently seems to be 4 GB, with 8 GB models announced to be arriving to market shortly |
| 01:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko milo__ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-076-233-069.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:06.35 | Writchie | juri_: later kernel is needed for any reliable SD writes |
| 01:07.07 | mjr | (microSDHC spec will support up to 32 GB in future products) |
| 01:07.22 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@127.185.111.218.kmr04-home.tm.net.my) |
| 01:14.09 | cesarb | rwhitby: where is the qtopia image located? So far I only found the source code |
| 01:15.24 | rwhitby | http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/ |
| 01:17.44 | cesarb | rwhitby: thanks (what's the difference between the "Qtopia flash image" and the "Developer root filesystem"? |
| 01:17.46 | cesarb | ) |
| 01:18.46 | ljp | one is a tarball and the other is a jffs2 file |
| 01:18.46 | rwhitby | jffs2 vs tgz I expect |
| 01:19.04 | rwhitby | hey ljp |
| 01:19.08 | ljp | hi |
| 01:19.36 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers_ (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 01:21.09 | cesarb | rwhitby: I was thinking more of doing a flash-qemu-qtopia by hand to check it out ;-) |
| 01:21.41 | rwhitby | that's what I meant - a makefile target to download and flash the image |
| 01:22.00 | cesarb | rwhitby: -neo- vs -qemu- ;-) |
| 01:22.44 | rwhitby | ah, yes |
| 01:23.06 | rwhitby | even better idea, thx. |
| 01:23.25 | rwhitby | ljp: do you know if the qtopia image runs on the neo1973 qemu? |
| 01:23.26 | ljp | there is an oe overlay in the qtopia sources |
| 01:23.35 | ljp | yes it does |
| 01:24.04 | ljp | as well as a modified openmoko makefile to build qtopia image |
| 01:24.25 | rwhitby | ljp: a MokoMakefile patch? |
| 01:25.08 | ljp | not really, I replaced -devel- with qtopia and added openmoko-qtopia-image and openmoko-qtopia-task and qtopia-phone .bbs |
| 01:25.37 | ljp | could very easily be made as a patch, but I was in a hurry |
| 01:26.16 | rwhitby | ljp: is there a plan for pushing those .bb's into OE - then I could add that stuff to mokomakefile |
| 01:27.03 | ljp | no plan as yet, it builds one big ipkg for qtopia. but qtopia can build its own ipkgs as well |
| 01:27.15 | jseghers_ | I'm having a problem with the builds I've made yesterday and today.... It goes through the boot process, but then stays on the boot text screen, does not bring the gui up at all. |
| 01:27.30 | cesarb | "This device configuration profile is for the FIC Neo1973. It contains a local overlay for OpenEmbedded build of OpenMoko, using the OpenMoko Makefile written by Rod Whitby <rod@whitby.id.au>, in the [...]" |
| 01:27.41 | ljp | :) |
| 01:27.49 | cesarb | rwhitby: devices/ficgta01/README on their source tarball |
| 01:28.11 | jseghers_ | Last line before the shell prompt is: /bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off |
| 01:28.42 | rwhitby | cesarb: that should get me a foot in the door if I ever want to move back to Qld and get a job with Trolltech ;-) |
| 01:29.21 | cesarb | ljp: I heard some people complaining about the sound with that qtopia release... |
| 01:29.44 | ljp | rwhitby: you know it, I would also put a good word in for you. we still need someone for the systems group |
| 01:30.55 | jseghers_ | Anyone have any idea why I'm not getting the UI? I did a nand erase of both kernel and rootfs before loading these. |
| 01:32.05 | cesarb | urgh, not using the dfu-util symbolic names |
| 01:32.19 | *** join/#openmoko brian_ (n=brian@c-24-3-37-229.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:32.20 | cesarb | "sudo dfu-util -a 3 -R -D <image>" <- should be -a kernel to avoid mistakes |
| 01:32.36 | cesarb | (on devices/ficgta01/Install.txt) |
| 01:32.43 | rwhitby | amen to that |
| 01:32.49 | cesarb | same for rootfs a couple of lines below |
| 01:33.44 | jseghers_ | What's the maximum size for rootfs? |
| 01:34.08 | abraxa_ | jseghers_: I have the same problem. |
| 01:35.02 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8AB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:35.47 | jseghers_ | abraxa: I'm wondering if I'm running out of space... my rootfs (i've added phoneme to it) is currently at 52805632 bytes... |
| 01:36.54 | brian_ | so what part of om does qtopia use? |
| 01:37.02 | ljp | the system |
| 01:37.12 | ljp | most things up to X |
| 01:37.44 | brian_ | but qt for apps as opposed to gnome? |
| 01:38.54 | mjr | qt for apps, and only qt, which is a bit of a limitation there |
| 01:39.24 | Writchie | qt also to control the gsm modem AFAIK |
| 01:40.06 | jseghers_ | abraxa_: I found the memory map... 59MB is allotted to rootfs, so I'm still fine there. |
| 01:40.39 | abraxa_ | jseghers_: /dev/mtdblock4 61.1M 43.0M 18.1M 70% - no problems with space here either |
| 01:40.39 | jseghers_ | Anybody know why the UI won't come up? |
| 01:40.53 | cesarb | jseghers_: just type (IIRC) "mtdpart" (or something like that, check out in qemu first), and it'll show the actual partition map |
| 01:41.22 | jseghers_ | cesarb: or look at the web page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QT2410 :) |
| 01:42.00 | jseghers_ | cesarb: I can't access the device by USB networking either... |
| 01:42.00 | cesarb | quite interesting way of setting up the audio: 'QString cmd = "/usr/sbin/alsactl -f /etc/alsa/"+m_mode+".state restore";' ;-) |
| 01:42.13 | cesarb | jseghers_: on uboot |
| 01:42.19 | cesarb | jseghers_: that's a uboot command |
| 01:42.33 | jseghers_ | cesarb: OK. *that* I can do :) |
| 01:42.55 | cesarb | jseghers_: and you aren't able to get to the ssh via usb networking? it freezes when the progress bar on the splash image is almost at the end? |
| 01:43.04 | cesarb | jseghers_: by which I mean, when starting gsmd? |
| 01:44.25 | cesarb | jseghers_: if that's the situation, you have three ways out... |
| 01:45.03 | cesarb | jseghers_: (a) try until you get lucky and it doesn't freeze, then edit /etc/init.d/gsmd to either not turn off the modem or turn off flow control before turning off the modem |
| 01:45.31 | jseghers_ | cesarb: It's not getting that far... |
| 01:45.41 | cesarb | jseghers_: (b) go into uboot, edit the right environment variable to disable the serial console (no need for saveenv), then proceed as in (a) |
| 01:45.42 | jseghers_ | It stays on the text console |
| 01:45.58 | cesarb | jseghers_: hm, what's the last message it gives? |
| 01:46.10 | jseghers_ | Last line before the shell prompt is: /bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off |
| 01:46.30 | cesarb | jseghers_: erm... I've seen that before... |
| 01:46.38 | cesarb | jseghers_: back when I was having trouble with binutils |
| 01:46.55 | cesarb | jseghers_: and after fixing that with several other packages |
| 01:47.17 | jseghers_ | cesarb: My prior builds have been working fine. |
| 01:47.17 | cesarb | jseghers_: I think my build was so hosed that /sbin/init went missing |
| 01:47.40 | cesarb | jseghers_: meaning the kernel was falling back to /bin/sh, which is a bit useless without a keyboard |
| 01:48.14 | cesarb | jseghers_: if the last messages before the /bin/sh one are all kernel messages, you probably are missing /sbin/init :P |
| 01:48.44 | jseghers_ | cesarb: indeed. my rootfs /sbin directory has an init.sysvinit, but no other init* |
| 01:49.11 | jseghers_ | OK... time to blow away build/tmp and rebuild from scratch |
| 01:49.13 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8AB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:49.18 | cesarb | jseghers_: cool, what is the trick to check that? |
| 01:49.38 | jseghers_ | cesarb: I just went to build/tmp/rootfs/sbin :) |
| 01:50.16 | cesarb | $ du -s build/tmp/rootfs/ |
| 01:50.21 | cesarb | 84424 build/tmp/rootfs/ |
| 01:50.27 | cesarb | wow, big |
| 01:50.54 | cesarb | jseghers_: I have init -> /sbin/init.sysvinit |
| 01:50.58 | cesarb | jseghers_: a symlink |
| 01:51.35 | jseghers_ | cesarb: interesting |
| 01:51.47 | jseghers_ | cesarb: any idea what package that's in? |
| 01:53.19 | jseghers_ | looks like it may be the sysvinit package :) |
| 01:54.56 | hozer | where is screen brightness again? |
| 01:55.16 | jseghers_ | cesarb, abraxa_: I'm trying a rebuild of sysvinit to see if it fixes the problem. |
| 01:55.56 | SpeedEvil | find /sys -name "*bright*" |
| 01:56.34 | cesarb | sprintf(cmd,"echo %d>/sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl/brightness",b); |
| 01:56.41 | cesarb | qtopia seems to think it's this one |
| 01:56.53 | cesarb | (custom.cpp) |
| 01:56.57 | jseghers_ | cesarb, abraxa_: it did create the link in rootfs... so now for the download |
| 01:57.30 | ljp | ya screen dimming needs a fix |
| 01:58.26 | cesarb | Interestingly, the qtopia source code seems to think ATAND=1,n does something ;-) |
| 01:58.30 | cesarb | urgh |
| 01:58.33 | cesarb | Interestingly, the qtopia source code seems to think AT%BAND=1,n does something ;-) |
| 01:58.46 | ljp | its supposed to :) |
| 01:58.49 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953ADFE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:58.58 | cesarb | ljp: have you actually tried? |
| 01:59.17 | ljp | no, rhys threw that in there |
| 01:59.24 | cesarb | ljp: it returns a bogus error value, even if you try to set it to the band it's already using |
| 01:59.32 | cesarb | ljp: *always* |
| 01:59.41 | cesarb | ljp: no matter what you try |
| 01:59.46 | ljp | ok, good thats one bug i dont have to fix |
| 02:00.02 | jseghers_ | back in a few.. |
| 02:00.14 | cesarb | ljp: oh, and the chip also doesn't seem to notice there's a GSM850 network around here (or, in fact, anywhere in the world) |
| 02:00.15 | ljp | neo isnt on my desk right now |
| 02:00.40 | ljp | and the good one is at osim |
| 02:00.47 | ljp | ;( |
| 02:00.54 | abraxa_ | cesarb: I'm apparently seeing the gsmd problem you mentioned but I don't see anything in /etc/init.d/gsmd that would turn off the modem during start-up of the init script |
| 02:01.41 | cesarb | abraxa_: [ -n "$GSM_POW" ] && ( echo "0" >$GSM_POW; sleep 1 ) <- this line and lines like this one, except the one which echoes 1 (turns _on_) |
| 02:02.18 | cesarb | abraxa_: the patch at bug (IIRC) 788 would be better, it does a flow control dance before these lines, and it's the currently accepted solution (in fact, IIRC it was even commited already) |
| 02:02.54 | abraxa_ | cesarb: http://pastebin.ca/702764 is what I'm refering to - nothing of that sort seems to be present there |
| 02:04.48 | cesarb | Writchie: and the gsm part works every single time? |
| 02:05.07 | cesarb | Writchie: comparing what both images do would probably give us some insight... |
| 02:05.18 | ajmitch | Writchie: that's impressive, I wonder what they've done with the gsm issues |
| 02:05.34 | rwhitby | Writchie: how do you send an sms in qtopia? |
| 02:05.36 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Main_Page]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] |
| 02:05.58 | cesarb | ajmitch: I'd guess they simply got lucky that the very different way they do things didn't trigger any bizarre oddities |
| 02:06.10 | cesarb | ajmitch: which is why comparing would be very interesting |
| 02:07.06 | cesarb | abraxa_: well, that's completely different from the one-week-old one I have... they probably rewrote the whole script |
| 02:07.27 | Writchie | rwhitby: cesarb: first SMS message was queue in network and just appeared as soon as the registration completed (with nothing on my part - i.e. like a real phone) |
| 02:07.47 | Writchie | there is a message app off the main menu |
| 02:08.30 | Writchie | you send SMS through it - I used predictive text and worked fine. The number took a bit to figure out how to get numbers instead of letters, took about a minute of fiddling |
| 02:08.55 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.168.234) |
| 02:09.14 | cesarb | Writchie: I hope there's a way to disable predictive text... |
| 02:09.17 | Writchie | ajmitch: AFAIK they bypass the libgsm/gsmd and just talk to the modem. |
| 02:09.28 | cesarb | Writchie: (or at least add a dictionary for your own language) |
| 02:09.28 | Writchie | cesarb: I'm sure there is by why? |
| 02:10.10 | Writchie | cesarb: have you ever used a proper word predictive text input on phone in portuguese? |
| 02:10.13 | cesarb | Writchie: because, if it has only an english dictionary, it would be worse than useless for me ;-) |
| 02:10.40 | cesarb | Writchie: yeah. it's slightly worse than simply repeating the keys several times |
| 02:11.00 | Writchie | you must be using motorola |
| 02:11.04 | cesarb | Writchie: since at least the predictive inputs I've used have an annoying learning function which makes it impossible to type without looking |
| 02:11.16 | cesarb | Writchie: exactly! great guess :D (Razr V3 Black) |
| 02:11.51 | Writchie | only ezitext works properly - at least when its implemented correctly in the upper layers |
| 02:11.57 | rwhitby | Writchie: thx - just sent and received SMS |
| 02:12.39 | Writchie | cesasrb: I can say that because i wrote ezitext 10 years ago |
| 02:13.49 | Writchie | at first blush I like the moko UI a bit better but of course its a couple of years behind |
| 02:13.51 | cesarb | Writchie: ezitext is a redlink on wikipedia ;-) |
| 02:14.52 | Writchie | cesarb: look under predictive text. |
| 02:15.16 | Writchie | however the wiki was written by Eatoni - an almost unknown competitor |
| 02:16.33 | Writchie | cesarb: T9 and ZiCorp are the major competitors. |
| 02:17.04 | Writchie | Writchie: i've had nothing to do with it since I retired 7 years ago |
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| 02:18.14 | abraxa_ | cesarb: Hmm, I see. Well, thanks anyway :) |
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| 02:19.48 | jseghers_ | cesarb, abraxa_: rebuilding package sysvinit got the splash screen and the status bar... but instead of continuing into the normal session, it dropped back to the consol |
| 02:20.22 | Writchie | hmmm. qtopia not reading all of the SMS messages - |
| 02:20.31 | ljp | hmmm |
| 02:20.35 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-185-177.38-151.net24.it) |
| 02:20.58 | Writchie | looks like only gsm char set messages |
| 02:21.04 | rwhitby | ljp: so what's the IRC channel for qtopia rootfs support on the neo1973 device? |
| 02:21.10 | cesarb | jseghers_: that's probably because init was not the only breakage |
| 02:21.26 | cesarb | jseghers_: you probably got several other broken packages in that build, init was just the most visible one |
| 02:21.38 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@32.144.186.242) |
| 02:21.47 | jseghers_ | yep, I'm sure you're right. |
| 02:21.56 | jseghers_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.14 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 02:23.15 | jseghers_ | One thing I've noticed over the last couple of days is that packages would not build properly (almost all of them were ones that all of a sudden had lots of localle data) and that if I rebuilt the package the build would continue |
| 02:23.19 | ljp | rwhitby: #qtopia |
| 02:23.38 | jseghers_ | almost like the build system wasn't catching everything that had changed. |
| 02:23.55 | cesarb | jseghers_: urgh, that's exactly what happened that time init disappeared from my build |
| 02:24.13 | jseghers_ | hence my earlier comment about it being time to nuke build/tmp and do a complete rebuild |
| 02:24.29 | cesarb | jseghers_: the binutils breakage left my build half-built for too long, and when I managed to resume I had to hand-rebuild lots and lots of packages (all in vain, as I later found out) |
| 02:25.02 | jseghers_ | cesarb: yeah, I had left an update for about 2 weeks while I solidified my own stuff. |
| 02:28.31 | jseghers_ | I'm reading the stuff about Qtopia and wondering if it might suit my needs a little better, perhaps sidestep some of the churn and get some features that I need (like SMS working)... |
| 02:29.23 | jseghers_ | Does anyone know if phoneme-feature has been incorporated into Qtopia? And if port-directed SMS messages are supported with that? |
| 02:29.43 | cesarb | jseghers_: <fud>The sound doesn't work in the qtopia build</fud> ;-) |
| 02:31.42 | *** join/#openmoko yulin (n=yulin@218.240.129.197) |
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| 02:33.02 | jseghers_ | cesarb: oddly enough, sound I don't really need at the moment ;) |
| 02:33.11 | yulin | when will GTA02 be on sale ? i want to buy a developer version. I am so excited. |
| 02:33.11 | aloril | yulin: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DA2C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:34.37 | abraxa_ | yulin: I'd recommend you wait for the release of gta02 - which isn't going to happen within the next 4~6 weeks, unfortunately. |
| 02:35.27 | yulin | en. i will wait it. it is my want! |
| 02:35.59 | yulin | It will be a great product. |
| 02:37.37 | abraxa_ | It will be once the software can actually live up to the expectations. |
| 02:38.24 | juri_ | a mobile phone with two competing operating environments. welcome to linux. :) |
| 02:38.44 | yulin | i am interesting in linux. |
| 02:38.49 | yulin | and it is my major job. |
| 02:39.25 | yulin | i hope i can contribute for this project and the software's living up. |
| 02:39.54 | ljp | competition is good. look at MS to see what happens when there is little competition |
| 02:41.39 | yulin | actually, i dont care aout the competition i just need some joy and some difference. haha. |
| 02:42.48 | yulin | MS windows cannot affort me, and is so instable. i cannot bear it. |
| 02:47.00 | abraxa_ | cesarb: ...turns out I accidentially flashed a rootfs from August, so the gsmd init script was way outdated. After flashing a recent one and doing the changes you suggested it boots up correctly. Thanks :) |
| 02:49.42 | juri_ | "from this place we will deliver to the parlaments of conquerors that a line has been drawn against the darkness." |
| 02:54.55 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 02:58.24 | cesarb | 'night all |
| 03:00.41 | cesarb | ~ugt |
| 03:00.42 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 03:01.03 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-253-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 03:34.07 | *** part/#openmoko zhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 03:35.40 | *** join/#openmoko ecloud (n=rutledge@ip72-208-134-59.ph.ph.cox.net) |
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| 03:40.17 | ecloud | Any successful bitbake users here? |
| 03:40.17 | aloril | ecloud: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 03:47.19 | *** join/#openmoko Kelly (n=kelly@ppp59-167-148-220.lns4.mel6.internode.on.net) |
| 03:47.45 | Kelly | hello eveyone |
| 03:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_ (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 03:48.01 | Writchie | anybody else have bad levels on qtopia calls - mike too hot - speaker too low? |
| 03:48.25 | Writchie | s/mike/mic/ |
| 03:49.57 | Kelly | I am new to cross compiling and I want to make a simple console Hello World app on my neo. |
| 03:50.19 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 03:50.47 | ecloud | mv: cannot stat `/var/media/moko/build/tmp/cross/lib/libiberty.a': No such file or directory |
| 03:50.51 | abraxa_ | Kelly: Heya - did you already check the wiki? |
| 03:50.53 | Writchie | Kelly: there's an article on the wiki |
| 03:51.00 | Kelly | from what I have read on the wiki the instructions are how to build the whole openmoko image, eg 16gb of hdd space. |
| 03:51.22 | Writchie | atm the moment you have to do this first |
| 03:51.30 | Writchie | eventually there will probably be sdk toolchains |
| 03:52.06 | Kelly | so there is no way to use a certain gcc and compile a binary which will run on the neo? |
| 03:52.17 | *** join/#openmoko rEdcArp_yu (n=yyu@211.103.237.2) |
| 03:52.55 | Writchie | Kelly: no yet - you need a cross compiler for arm-eabi and libraries etc. |
| 03:53.14 | Writchie | mokomakefile is your best bet atm |
| 03:53.45 | Writchie | but you need the disk space and overnight build |
| 03:54.40 | Kelly | so it will take all night to build hello world (and openmoko)? |
| 03:54.42 | ecloud | Kelly: just for hello world you can compile it on the neo directly |
| 03:54.48 | ecloud | ipkg install task-native-sdk |
| 03:55.01 | ecloud | but of course it's a very slow machine for compiling :-) |
| 03:55.43 | Kelly | yes, i also read that you could possibly use qemu and compile in that? |
| 03:56.06 | ecloud | yeah I haven't tried too hard to get that working - have never been able to build the whole image |
| 03:56.17 | ecloud | I use the moko makefile, and it never succeeds |
| 03:57.33 | Kelly | ok, I havnt yet tried to compile it. It seemed overkill to have to do that just for hello world :P |
| 03:58.09 | ecloud | but presumably you will want to move beyond hello world and then need to compile against a lot of libs and stuff |
| 03:58.42 | ecloud | Writchie: apparently you managed to build the image? |
| 03:58.50 | ecloud | Did you ever run into an error about libiberty.a? |
| 03:59.26 | Kelly | Writchie: you said that I would need a cross compiler for arm-eabi and libraries etc. Is this difficult to obtain? |
| 03:59.47 | Writchie | it is build as part of the project |
| 04:00.07 | Writchie | it builds its own tool chain and uses to compile everything for the target |
| 04:00.17 | Writchie | the tool chain runs on your build system |
| 04:00.50 | Writchie | it's relatively simple when it works - the only disadvantage is the initial build time |
| 04:01.14 | Kelly | ok, so Id only have to do the night build once. then i could simply do /build/tmp/cross/arm-linux/bin/gcc -o hello hello.c etc |
| 04:01.20 | ecloud | especially when the build time is "several weeks" because of being unable to get answers when it doesn't work |
| 04:01.27 | Writchie | Kelly: pretty much |
| 04:02.08 | Writchie | ecloud: yes, unfortunately, people are changing things and breaking the build regularly. |
| 04:02.21 | ecloud | well it's been broken for weeks for me, literally |
| 04:02.24 | Writchie | although make update openmoko-devel-image is now pretty stable |
| 04:02.25 | ecloud | I don't know what to do next |
| 04:02.29 | Writchie | ecloud: me too |
| 04:02.33 | ecloud | just keep doing the same thing over and over |
| 04:02.41 | ecloud | make setup update openmoko-devel-image |
| 04:03.20 | Writchie | if make setup update openmoko-devel-image is not working then you need you to clobber and start over |
| 04:03.36 | hozer | but it involves basically starting over with openembedded |
| 04:03.45 | ecloud | ok I'm game |
| 04:03.52 | ecloud | I think I did that already a few days ago... I forget when it was |
| 04:04.17 | Writchie | ecloud: i rebuilt everything a few days ago and it worked. |
| 04:04.35 | Writchie | but the sdl stuff is now screwing up the make update all |
| 04:04.35 | ecloud | I also tried just starting over using the OE Angstrom instructions |
| 04:05.00 | Writchie | make update openmoko-devel-image works fine so far for last couple of days |
| 04:05.32 | ecloud | There's no reason the directory path is important is there? |
| 04:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.168.234) |
| 04:05.37 | ecloud | (wouldn't think so) |
| 04:05.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:USB]] |
| 04:06.06 | Writchie | you can use any directory - just put make file in there and you're good to go |
| 04:06.06 | ecloud | I have space on my /var/media so I try to build it there |
| 04:06.55 | abraxa_ | Writchie: Unfortunately the build process builds some things with native system libraries so the build can (and does) fail for various people (e.g. ecloud and me) |
| 04:07.27 | ecloud | I use Gentoo, so everything is quite up-to-date |
| 04:07.31 | Writchie | abraxa_: yes for me at various times too |
| 04:07.48 | ecloud | What are most of the openmoko devs using? |
| 04:07.50 | rwhitby | ecloud: gentoo is one of the worst distros to support on OE, cause everyone's installation is slightly different. |
| 04:07.51 | ecloud | Debian? |
| 04:08.05 | abraxa_ | ecloud: Same, and uicmoc-native has been broken for >1 week now |
| 04:08.25 | Writchie | ubuntu 7.04 feisty has been working pretty well |
| 04:08.27 | rwhitby | I would recommend Debian Etch or Ubuntu 7.04 |
| 04:08.36 | ecloud | OK |
| 04:08.39 | rwhitby | (those are the two I build on almost every day) |
| 04:08.47 | ecloud | wonder if I could run it in chroot on top of Gentoo |
| 04:09.11 | abraxa_ | ecloud: That's what I'd try, if I had the disk space :) |
| 04:09.25 | Writchie | abraxa_: I had this problem but it was fixed with a link to libXext.so |
| 04:09.44 | Writchie | this was a temporary fix - I thought they fixed this upstream |
| 04:10.00 | abraxa_ | Writchie: I have the symlink in place and it still breaks |
| 04:10.13 | Writchie | freetype too |
| 04:10.24 | mwester | Oh - and avoid 64-bit on the build host for any distro -- nothing but loads of little annoyances and troubles with OE builds... |
| 04:10.37 | ecloud | yeah I run gentoo on a 64-bit machine |
| 04:10.43 | ecloud | just asking for trouble eh? :-) |
| 04:11.27 | abraxa_ | Writchie: Yeah, I got that one also. It can't find some header files but honestly I couldn't be bothered with looking into it more - got better things to do atm :) |
| 04:11.47 | Writchie | abraxa_: ack |
| 04:12.31 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@wikipedia/cesarb) |
| 04:13.09 | cesarb | I am woken up by a strange beep |
| 04:13.24 | cesarb | And when I finally found out that it's the nobreak, it's too late |
| 04:13.30 | Writchie | rwhitby: looks like we'll have a KDE GNOME type split |
| 04:13.49 | Writchie | nobreak? |
| 04:13.55 | cesarb | When my arm is less than a meter from the ACPI button, the nobreak battery ends and it powers up |
| 04:14.07 | cesarb | and, LESS THAN A MINUTE AFTER THAT, the power comes back on |
| 04:14.21 | cesarb | (sorry for the offtopic ranting) |
| 04:14.39 | Mek | when I read arm, I first thought of a processor.... |
| 04:14.49 | cesarb | Mek: heh |
| 04:14.49 | Writchie | cesarb: while you're up was your sound bad on qtopia calls? |
| 04:15.05 | cesarb | Writchie: I only tested on the emulator so far, so no sound ;-) |
| 04:15.29 | Writchie | the gsmhandstate file in their rootfs works but mic is too hot and speaker too soft |
| 04:15.37 | cesarb | s/power up/power down/ |
| 04:15.42 | Writchie | anyway - first call ever for me on the hoardware |
| 04:16.00 | cesarb | Writchie: isn't their state files the same everyone is already using all the time? |
| 04:16.10 | Writchie | apparently not |
| 04:16.15 | Writchie | i'll diff them tommorrow |
| 04:16.31 | cesarb | Writchie: perhaps they use the same state files as everyone else, but have an extra volume control on top of it |
| 04:16.31 | Writchie | the originals didn't work for me at all |
| 04:16.42 | Writchie | cesarb: perhaps |
| 04:16.44 | cesarb | Writchie: a misplaced volume control could cause strange-sounding sound problems |
| 04:16.59 | Writchie | i've been resisting digging into alsa |
| 04:17.10 | Writchie | enough to do with programming d-bus in native c |
| 04:19.54 | cesarb | great, now, since it's past midnight, updatedb decides to run. |
| 04:20.05 | *** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@190.24.28.36) |
| 04:20.45 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c-68-35-124-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 04:20.55 | Kelly | is there any news on gllin ? |
| 04:21.03 | rwhitby | Writchie: I'm wondering whether the larger vision of OpenMoko will drive OM to just use Qt |
| 04:21.39 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 04:21.39 | Writchie | rwhitby: I sure hope not |
| 04:21.54 | Writchie | commercial use requires paying royalties to TT |
| 04:22.00 | cesarb | rwhitby: it depends on whether the vision depends on commercial third-parties being able to write software without having to pay for a Qt license |
| 04:22.03 | abraxa_ | Kelly: The eabi build is in the works, though not ready for public release |
| 04:22.46 | doc|home | holy crap, apple are getting 40% of revenue (not just profit) from O2 |
| 04:22.54 | Writchie | if openmoko switches to QT a new lgpl project will emerge |
| 04:23.06 | Writchie | doc|home: pathetic isn't it |
| 04:23.21 | Writchie | doc|home: i though it was profit |
| 04:23.26 | doc|home | Writchie: only if they're on the same data plan as the rest of us :/ |
| 04:24.01 | Kelly | abraxa_: any eta? |
| 04:24.02 | Writchie | iPhone unlimited users in your cell will destroy your service |
| 04:24.27 | doc|home | good for other phone providers though because they can not charge it and get lower priced plans |
| 04:24.40 | doc|home | Writchie: hopefully only temporarily until they get more kit online |
| 04:25.15 | abraxa_ | Kelly: Nope, however it shouldn't be too long. In the meanwhile you might want to use the oabi version in a chroot if you so desire |
| 04:26.46 | Kelly | abraxa_: will do |
| 04:26.56 | abraxa_ | Kelly: http://www.openmoko.org.pl/node/55 |
| 04:27.18 | cesarb | Writchie: trying to speculate what was harald getting all worked up about is quite pointless |
| 04:27.29 | Writchie | cesarb: very true |
| 04:27.33 | cesarb | Writchie: it could vary from a shortage of coffee to the end of the world |
| 04:27.43 | ljp | it wasnt at that point I dont think he knew about it |
| 04:27.55 | Writchie | cesarb: lol |
| 04:28.06 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@user-0cdft28.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 04:28.30 | cesarb | mwester: simply, they are rooting for the "openmoko gtk team", and don't like the appearance of a new strong contender. Think sports. |
| 04:29.02 | rwhitby | mwester: there is a wide range of ideologies/business-model-proponents/toolkit-evangelists/etc :-) |
| 04:29.22 | Writchie | and every camp is represented |
| 04:30.21 | mwester | cesarb: Perhaps a good analogy... there were some Chicago Cubs fans here in Chicago that were unhappy when the Chicago White Sox won the series. I root for both teams. |
| 04:31.08 | rwhitby | sports, religion, gui toolkits - all seem to be causes for bloodshed |
| 04:31.37 | cesarb | mwester: that's because software is Serious Business (see http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeriousBusiness for instance) |
| 04:32.04 | cesarb | mwester: (particularly the "Real Life" part at the end of the page) |
| 04:33.47 | Writchie | not everyone is doing this just for fun! |
| 04:34.05 | rwhitby | I can see Writchie's point about LGPL GTK+ vs Dual-licensed Qtopia - for some people that will make a real difference to their business bottom line. |
| 04:35.04 | ljp | yes, but the neo is a free software phone. |
| 04:35.09 | ecloud | Kite flying in Pakistan |
| 04:35.10 | Writchie | similar reasons keep many people away from KDE - even though they liked it better in the begining |
| 04:35.11 | ecloud | :-) |
| 04:35.15 | ljp | its all about _free_ software |
| 04:36.39 | rwhitby | ljp: what's the tone of your last statement. Is that deadly serious, or sarcastic, or ironic? |
| 04:36.44 | cesarb | Well, for me, the most problematic thing would be that qtopia probably has a slightly higher barrier to contribution (because it probably has a fsf-style copyright paperwork, due to the need to make it possible to dual-license) |
| 04:36.48 | mwester | Ah, but as a mighty battle rages, wherein the free software proponents destroy each other over varying degrees and interpretations of freedom, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates sit on the sideline waiting to take over the small share they haven't already amicably split up between each other. |
| 04:37.16 | ljp | its a statement about lgpl |
| 04:37.19 | ljp | :) |
| 04:37.28 | Writchie | cesarb: you flat out cannot use QT in any commercial app |
| 04:37.36 | ecloud | QTopia is GPL as of now, right? That means it's free software. |
| 04:37.39 | Writchie | without paying tribute to QT |
| 04:37.46 | mwester | We should learn something from Real Business: until you have something people want, there's nothing to fight over! |
| 04:38.12 | yulin | i think we need free of source, documentation, not full free of money. |
| 04:38.22 | rwhitby | Writchie: you can use the GPL'd version to create a commercial app - you just need to provide the source code to your customers ;-) |
| 04:38.39 | mwester | I'll be happy to help the OM project, and I hope it's a real go, but at the moment qtopia is a working phone on the Neo, and OM is not. Can't argue that. Nothing to fight about. |
| 04:38.56 | cw666 | people can do CLOSED SOURCE qtopia stuff |
| 04:38.59 | cw666 | or a mix |
| 04:39.04 | cw666 | i dont know why they think they caint |
| 04:39.05 | cw666 | cant |
| 04:39.16 | rwhitby | mwester: one wonders whether 'OM' means the wider vision, or the narrower software distribution built on OE and GTK? |
| 04:39.35 | Writchie | mwester: actually - neither is working until the PM problems are solved |
| 04:39.46 | mwester | They did blur the lines with the naming of the offshoot company of FIC, didn't they? |
| 04:39.52 | cw666 | something terrible |
| 04:39.58 | cw666 | it's so confusing now |
| 04:40.12 | mwester | Writchie: Yes. and consider that the solving of the PM problems will solve it for both. |
| 04:40.32 | Writchie | mwester: yes |
| 04:40.48 | rwhitby | if the decision makers in OpenMoko Inc. want the wider vision to progress, and that wider vision does not rely on royalty-free commercial closed source applications being doable, then there would be no conflict (from a CEO's point of view) with just using Qtopia. |
| 04:40.48 | Writchie | i'm happy to use qtopia as a phone until the other stuff is further along |
| 04:40.59 | ecloud | chroot debian is working well |
| 04:41.08 | Writchie | rwhitby: yes |
| 04:41.17 | cw666 | Writchie: you can use QT in a commercial app |
| 04:41.26 | ecloud | it's already updated monotone and about to get on with the build I think |
| 04:41.33 | Writchie | if y ou pay royalties |
| 04:41.36 | cw666 | so? |
| 04:41.37 | cw666 | that's fair |
| 04:41.44 | cw666 | if you SELL software sometimes you might have to PAY for some |
| 04:41.57 | mwester | I installed qtopia as a test, intending to reload the latest OM build once it completed. But I'm pleasantly surprised, and I think I'll leave qtopia on the phone, and add a few extra $$ to the pre-paid SIM since I might actually be using it! |
| 04:42.09 | cesarb | rwhitby: er... with just a small problem of a royalty-free commercial closed source application called "gllin"... |
| 04:42.12 | Writchie | and when you add up all the dimes and dollars you get the present handset industry |
| 04:42.15 | mwester | But I'm still waiting for the GPS driver... :( |
| 04:42.51 | ecloud | any reason gllin wouldn't run on the qtopia image too? |
| 04:42.55 | cesarb | Damn, look what I just started! ANOTHER Qt licensing discussion! |
| 04:42.57 | cw666 | ecloud: it could be made to work |
| 04:43.19 | rwhitby | cesarb: no, this is an OpenMoko Inc strategic direction discussion :-) |
| 04:43.46 | Writchie | FIC, openmoko.com openmoko.org are three different parties |
| 04:43.49 | rwhitby | no reason why you can't do a chroot for gllin on qtopia if it is not already compatible ... |
| 04:44.22 | Writchie | and "openmoko" is controlled by commercial entity FIC or its subsidiary |
| 04:44.33 | rwhitby | it would be very interesting to hear Sean's reaction to the QT neo release ... |
| 04:44.44 | ecloud | any news on the gllin licensing? |
| 04:44.50 | ljp | it would be quite easy to create an old style nonEABI rootfs for Qtopia |
| 04:45.20 | ecloud | we ought to be getting the EABI one any day right? |
| 04:45.30 | bedboi | vi is better than emacs, C is better than Java, gtk+ is better than Qt |
| 04:45.30 | bedboi | what did i miss? |
| 04:45.50 | rwhitby | ljp: is qtopia same ABI/gcc/glibc/etc as angstrom? |
| 04:45.56 | cw666 | yes |
| 04:45.57 | Writchie | rwhitby: I agree there may be a good chance that openmoko might switch to qt - but i see no reason why they would have to do this |
| 04:46.14 | rwhitby | Writchie: no reason that they have to, agreed. |
| 04:46.21 | cw666 | i doubt they will switch |
| 04:46.28 | cw666 | i'd be pretty shocked if they did |
| 04:46.31 | rwhitby | it's definitely an openmoko ceo level decision |
| 04:46.45 | cesarb | rwhitby: well, it has "use EABI" on its TODO file... |
| 04:46.47 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html cites Sean's reaction |
| 04:46.51 | mwester | bedboi: Sports and religion were also brought up. |
| 04:46.58 | rwhitby | cw666: ceo's often do shocking things |
| 04:47.10 | bedboi | mwester: well baseball sucks. |
| 04:47.14 | Writchie | rwhitby: maybe we'll find out who is in charge |
| 04:47.19 | Writchie | ;) |
| 04:47.40 | bedboi | mwester: i won't say anything about religion, i don't know so much about that. |
| 04:47.56 | mwester | Actually, there is ONE thing about the whole qtopia to which I object in the strongest possible manner. |
| 04:47.57 | rwhitby | abraxa_: thx. "In a statement, Sean Moss-Pultz, president of OpenMoko, said, "We welcome Trolltech extending the reach of our Neo1973 and the OpenMoko platform. And we applaud their efforts at simplifying application development for mobile devices. I look forward to a closer collaboration between our two communities."" |
| 04:48.12 | mwester | I *despise* that shade of GREEN!!!!! |
| 04:48.41 | cw666 | rwhitby: i get the feeling a lot of OM/FIC/whatever people are wedded for OE/OM for non-technical reasons |
| 04:49.34 | rwhitby | cw666: it's clear that mickey|zzZZzz is software architect for OM and co-founder of OE. |
| 04:50.13 | Writchie | great: openmoko-devel-image is now borked on blueZ |
| 04:50.17 | cw666 | rwhitby: ? did i miss something? |
| 04:50.44 | ferric | what's stopping a community from forming around QPE? |
| 04:50.49 | cesarb | mwester: a variant of the classic "OLPC green", right? |
| 04:51.08 | mwester | Yeah, but somehow it's not so objectionable on the OLPC |
| 04:51.37 | Writchie | mwester: ugh - a real OLPC is pretty objectionable |
| 04:51.50 | rwhitby | cw666: no, why? |
| 04:52.00 | mwester | I've never actually seen the real hardware. I'd love to check it out someday, though... |
| 04:52.01 | cesarb | mwester: didn't the OLPC chose that color on purpose so as to make it obvious to anyone seeing an adult with one of these that something is wrong? |
| 04:52.15 | cw666 | rwhitby: i dont see the relevant of the point to what mickey is or isn't as to my earlier comment |
| 04:52.16 | cesarb | mwester: i.e., as a _theft deterrent_? |
| 04:52.36 | Writchie | mwester: keyboard is totally unusable |
| 04:52.56 | mwester | I read something like that on their web site. They did it deliberately; which makes me really wonder about the Neo in orange... :p |
| 04:53.17 | rwhitby | cw666: just that if someone is technical architect of two things, then it's reasonable that they would think that one thing is the best solution for the other |
| 04:53.35 | rwhitby | (otherwise they would be working to change the architecture of one or the other) |
| 04:54.05 | cw666 | rwhitby: im sorry, im retarded tonight. im not following you. |
| 04:54.19 | cw666 | rwhitby: what other things is he a technical architect for? |
| 04:54.23 | cesarb | mwester: ah, the neo in orange is part of openmoko's fiery graphical motif |
| 04:54.31 | cesarb | (ok, that didn't convince anyone) |
| 04:54.33 | rwhitby | cw666: openmoko, and openembedded |
| 04:54.51 | cw666 | rwhitby: ok, so again, how is that relevant to my comment? |
| 04:54.56 | blindcoder | moin |
| 04:55.03 | cw666 | in fact, could you not argue that it makes my comment even MORE likely? |
| 04:56.47 | rwhitby | cw666: I'm not sure I understood your comment then. I was just saying that OM and OE share technical leadership, so decisions are likely to be made from the same technical viewpoint for both. One person's technical viewpoint is often very different from a second person's technical viewpoint. |
| 04:57.52 | ferric | rwhitby: why does it have to be one or the other? (ie. OM can keep using OE, and a fork can start with QPE) |
| 04:58.08 | mwester | ferric: Shared code? |
| 04:58.27 | cesarb | ferric: resources split together with the code |
| 04:58.31 | rwhitby | ferric: I'm not saying it has to be one or the other. I'm simply wondering what the CEO of OpenMoko Inc. is going to decide to do in this situation. |
| 04:58.45 | cw666 | rwhitby: probably nothing |
| 04:58.48 | cesarb | ferric: of course, that completely ignores the extra resources the fork will end up bringing to the project |
| 04:58.51 | ferric | not shared code, just differing distributions |
| 04:58.54 | cw666 | they have started with OE/OM and i expect that will continue for some time |
| 04:59.04 | roh | rwhitby decide what? |
| 04:59.14 | ferric | yes, it's a stretch to imagine that OM will abandon OE |
| 05:00.35 | rtyler | grrr, somebody broke the build again |
| 05:00.42 | mwester | cesarb mentions an important point: extra resources brought to bear *because* of this. Consider that apparently somebody has already figured out the GSM modem enough to make it work reliably on first boot, something that we *still* don't have in OM after weeks and weeks... |
| 05:00.43 | rwhitby | roh: one possibility (however unlikely) is that the CEO of OpenMoko Inc. could decide to refocus his company on using Qtopia as the software distribution on which to base the OpenMoko open mobile communications revolution. |
| 05:00.46 | rtyler | just more than one day a week i'd like to be able to build :P |
| 05:00.52 | rtyler | bluez is the culprit this time |
| 05:01.22 | mwester | rtyler: pastebin a log |
| 05:01.27 | ferric | rwhitby: heh - that is wishful thinking :) |
| 05:01.30 | rwhitby | roh: I'm not supporting or advocating any such decision for or against. I'm just wondering about the possibility, as I'm sure others are too. |
| 05:01.37 | roh | rwhitby whatfor? i see no reason to do so, only a limitation of future |
| 05:02.00 | rwhitby | roh: don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anything. |
| 05:02.14 | roh | rwhitby besides that there is absolutely no reason to only have one, or 2 usable userinterfaces |
| 05:02.15 | cesarb | mwester: I still think qtopia got it right completely by accident |
| 05:02.16 | ljp | openmoko is continuing work on openmoko |
| 05:02.33 | cesarb | mwester: they happened to somehow avoid the bug, just by doing things completely different |
| 05:02.45 | mwester | cesarb: :) Still, perhaps we can learn something! Is there the equivalent of a gsmd? |
| 05:02.51 | rtyler | mwester: http://pastebin.com/m26d1d9ca |
| 05:03.02 | ferric | cesarb: what did they get right? (sorry, i stepping to the middle of this one) |
| 05:03.06 | ljp | it wasnt by accident ... |
| 05:03.16 | mwester | I notice that they avoid the kernel lockup problem by just never swithing the GSM modem off once it is turned on :) |
| 05:03.20 | ferric | hey! ljp! |
| 05:03.22 | cesarb | ferric: their gsmd works. on every boot. without black voodoo. |
| 05:03.31 | ferric | ljp: don't you actually work for trolltech? |
| 05:03.39 | ferric | cesarb: oh sweet |
| 05:03.43 | cw666 | cesarb: they dont actually have gsmd |
| 05:03.44 | cesarb | ferric: (ok, I don't know if it's actually a gsmd or something different, but people have said it works) |
| 05:03.48 | ljp | yes, i a mthe one doing th eneo port |
| 05:03.49 | cw666 | their arch is fairly different actually |
| 05:03.51 | ferric | well, that would make sense considering they've done it for the greenphone |
| 05:04.23 | ferric | ljp: did you have trouble in the beginning getting the gsm modem to start up and stay up with qpe? |
| 05:04.26 | ljp | qtopia doesnt use gsmd |
| 05:04.36 | cesarb | ljp: by accident I mean, you didn't set out to "let's fix the gsm stuff"; you just tried it on qtopia's scheme, and it worked |
| 05:04.38 | ferric | the source to qpe isn't available, is it? |
| 05:04.41 | roh | rwhitby we surely find it great that now even trolltech supports our hardware. free software is about pluralism, about choise |
| 05:04.44 | cw666 | ferric: yes |
| 05:04.50 | ljp | no, we already had a vondor plugin for another TI modem that worked fairly good |
| 05:04.51 | cw666 | ferric: source and sdk is for download aleady |
| 05:04.54 | ferric | cw666: yes it's available? |
| 05:04.56 | ferric | oh nice! |
| 05:05.03 | ljp | but most of the gsm stuff is simply standard gsm |
| 05:05.05 | cw666 | ftp.trolltech.com/i/forget/where |
| 05:05.06 | cesarb | ljp: yeah, I was unclear, by gsmd I meant whatever qtopia uses as the gsm "daemon" |
| 05:05.11 | ferric | cw666: i'll find it, thx |
| 05:05.12 | rwhitby | roh: fully agree - from the FIC hardware point of view it's a great coup |
| 05:05.38 | cesarb | ljp: well, gsmd talks standard gsm... when the modem decides to answer (it's doing something wrong, and we don't know what it is) |
| 05:05.51 | ferric | personally, i think qt should get out of the hardware business and keep writing great gui toolkits :) |
| 05:06.14 | ferric | ljp: what do you mean by 'vendor plugin'? |
| 05:06.17 | cw666 | ferric: they aren't really in the hardware business |
| 05:06.18 | rwhitby | roh: from the openmoko software distribution point of view, it could be seen as a dilution of community developer interest, or as an increase in developer community for the hardware (and corresponding shared code) |
| 05:06.27 | Writchie | cesarb: gsmd is pretty borked conceptually |
| 05:06.35 | ferric | cw666: yes, the green phone was more of an experiment, i guess |
| 05:06.47 | roh | rwhitby well, i see it as a credit we get from trolltech. even if i personally am not a fan of qt (personal thing, nothing to do with the company, i just don't like c++ ;) |
| 05:06.55 | ferric | rwhitby: kde coming after gnome wasn't a dilution, the market just became bigger |
| 05:07.14 | ferric | roh: is gtk+ written in c? |
| 05:07.17 | ljp | vendor plugin is a vendor (modem) specific calls for Qtopia, most standard GSM calls are in libqtopiaphone |
| 05:07.31 | roh | besides that: now we can finally get rid of all that qt vs gtk discussion and just have both. everybody can choose how he likes better |
| 05:07.36 | ecloud | Writchie: what do you mean, borked conceptually? |
| 05:07.48 | roh | ferric japp. |
| 05:07.55 | ferric | hm |
| 05:08.26 | Writchie | ecloud: the free for all of every application using libgsm at the same time |
| 05:08.29 | ferric | rwhitby: what is your personal preference? |
| 05:08.35 | ferric | ljp: ah |
| 05:08.39 | roh | also that means the hardware and the kernel-api gets more usage from different code which means more testing and in the end better code quality / saner apis |
| 05:08.40 | Writchie | the lack of mux in the design from day one |
| 05:08.40 | ferric | ljp: is the plugin gpl'd? |
| 05:08.48 | ljp | yes |
| 05:08.56 | rwhitby | ferric: for me, a GUI is simply a means of using multiple shell windows |
| 05:09.09 | ferric | rwhitby: :) |
| 05:09.16 | ferric | rwhitby: it doesn't have to be pretty? |
| 05:09.25 | rwhitby | I usually use Linux through a PuTTY session running emacs on the linux server. |
| 05:09.44 | Writchie | while harald had some good things in mind libgsmd/gsmd were just hacked ad-hoc into what they are today |
| 05:09.50 | rwhitby | (indeed, that is how I do all my linux development for NSLU2, OpenWrt, OE, OM, ...) |
| 05:09.52 | cw666 | pretty no, but usable yes ... a bash shell isn't really ideal for a phone anymore than you would drive a car with a bash prompt |
| 05:10.26 | ferric | rwhitby: you ....use ....windows?!!~ |
| 05:10.27 | rwhitby | ferric: so for me, GTK vs QT for a phone UI is an irrelevant question. show me the applications. |
| 05:10.42 | rwhitby | ferric: I use all sorts of operating systems. |
| 05:10.42 | cesarb | cw666: but it's ideal for bashing things into shape when the configuration is broken (sorry, couldn't help it - bad pun) |
| 05:10.44 | ferric | cw666: agreed |
| 05:11.02 | cw666 | cesarb: for a desktop yes, for a phone no |
| 05:11.34 | ferric | what was that about gsmd being broked conceptually? |
| 05:12.47 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-126-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 05:12.48 | ecloud | Writchie: by mux you mean GPRS and voice at the same time? |
| 05:13.03 | Writchie | ecloud: its more than that |
| 05:13.59 | Writchie | gsm handles data, fax, alternating voice data/ gprs sessions with multiple profiles, SMS, EME, etc. second calls, calls on hold, call by call diversion, etc. a lot of things |
| 05:14.15 | ferric | Writchie: you think gsmd is badly architected? |
| 05:14.19 | roh | ljp what i really need to give trolltech credits for is gpl-ing the remaining closed components (i got that right?) |
| 05:14.24 | ecloud | big state machine eh? |
| 05:14.27 | Writchie | ferric: it was not really architected. |
| 05:14.36 | ljp | roh: yes. thanks |
| 05:14.37 | ferric | Writchie: it just... grew? |
| 05:14.42 | Writchie | harald didn't have sufficient time to do it |
| 05:14.51 | ferric | ah |
| 05:14.59 | ferric | well, that's ok, it'll get rewritten in due time |
| 05:15.03 | Writchie | its a big job and he has much more important things to do |
| 05:15.08 | ferric | perhaps the new qtopia code can be reused |
| 05:15.25 | Writchie | ferric: not for a lgpl version |
| 05:15.26 | cw666 | Writchie: do you understand the muxing of gprs with other stuff btw? |
| 05:15.32 | ferric | Writchie: sigh. the phone part of the first free phone would be important, don't you think? |
| 05:15.38 | Writchie | cw666: yes |
| 05:15.44 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-126-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 05:16.12 | cw666 | Writchie: it's not clear (to me) when tx/rx gprs (ppp) frames how you mux with the other data? |
| 05:16.18 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 05:16.30 | cw666 | Writchie: is it escape or is it something more sublte like high-bit-set with a ppp escape map or something? |
| 05:16.51 | cw666 | s/escape/escaped/ |
| 05:16.58 | Writchie | cw666: the gsm 7.10 mux is just a protocol with multiple DLC's |
| 05:17.11 | Writchie | it uses HDLC frames |
| 05:17.19 | Writchie | each address is essentially a different port. |
| 05:17.21 | cw666 | Writchie: for everything? |
| 05:17.26 | Writchie | you create as many as you need. |
| 05:17.36 | ecloud | openembedded-essential does not depend on help2man, which is required |
| 05:17.38 | cw666 | Writchie: so talking AT commands goes to another DLC? |
| 05:17.47 | Writchie | yup |
| 05:17.57 | cw666 | Writchie: can you get at the raw gsm voice data like that too> |
| 05:17.58 | Writchie | each command stream is transported. |
| 05:18.04 | cw666 | s/>/?/ |
| 05:18.10 | Writchie | similar to bluetooth with uses the same protocol in a different mode |
| 05:18.19 | Writchie | cw666: on some devices yes |
| 05:18.25 | Writchie | not the caylpso |
| 05:18.36 | cw666 | oh :-( |
| 05:18.37 | roh | ljp i think its great that even when there are different companys and userinterfaces involved, the message can be, that free software is the direction for linux phones, and not closed planets with signed binarys only. |
| 05:18.52 | rwhitby | ecloud: you should report that in the openembedded bugtracker |
| 05:19.08 | cw666 | roh: sooner or later m$ will notice (well, im sure they have already) |
| 05:19.26 | cw666 | if any of the open phones do well m$ will probably start the FUD machine |
| 05:19.43 | cw666 | or lobby congress to outlaw them to avoid terrorist or some silly thing |
| 05:20.29 | Writchie | cw666: the handset market is a billion devices |
| 05:20.30 | ljp | roh: agreed |
| 05:20.31 | roh | cw666 i think a big chunk of the smartphones sold in asia are linux. (mostly not free/open) the other 2 players are symbian and windows ce. |
| 05:20.39 | Writchie | it will be a long time before M$ notices |
| 05:20.44 | cw666 | roh: a lot are yes, but not open |
| 05:20.48 | cw666 | open is the issue |
| 05:20.50 | rwhitby | roh: so is 'OpenMoko' a collective term for software distributions which support the open mobile software revolution, or is it the one OE-based software distribution? I need to know, in case I want to add support for building a Qtopia-based image in a Makefile, whether it should be part of the existing MokoMakefile, or a new separate Makefile? |
| 05:21.03 | ecloud | rwhitby: doing that |
| 05:21.08 | cw666 | because right now handsets are done with a lot of lockin and telcos use that to extort from end-users |
| 05:21.13 | cw666 | open hardware can undermine that |
| 05:21.46 | Writchie | rwhitby: i think there are terms on the wiki |
| 05:21.56 | Writchie | i think its tied to NEO hardware |
| 05:22.10 | roh | rwhitby openmoko is a trademark which stands for free software as we understand it. |
| 05:22.28 | Writchie | roh: be careful - |
| 05:22.44 | roh | rwhitby we have written down a policy for that.. ;) |
| 05:22.46 | roh | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy |
| 05:23.04 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 05:23.26 | Writchie | any commercial use would seem to apply to tt |
| 05:24.11 | rwhitby | roh: thx, that explains it. If the software doesn't come from OpenMoko, Inc. then it doesn't come under an "OpenMoko" umbrella. |
| 05:24.27 | rwhitby | "The calling of any software or product by the name OpenMoko (or another related Trademark), unless that software or product is a substantially unmodified OpenMoko product." |
| 05:24.38 | rwhitby | (Unlikely to get trademark approval) |
| 05:24.47 | roh | Writchie depends. if you want to sell something you have to ask. |
| 05:25.07 | Writchie | well there is certainly "commercial intent" behing TT |
| 05:25.17 | Writchie | s/behing/behind/ |
| 05:26.09 | Writchie | IMHO, there are problems with the way openmoko.org is tied to the commercial entities |
| 05:26.11 | ljp | TT doesnt call it openmoko |
| 05:26.28 | roh | rwhitby i think if there is a nice way to build a qtopia image from our oe tree without making it overly complicated, it would be fine. i just wouldn't name it openmoko-* |
| 05:26.50 | ljp | roh: there is an oe overlay in the qtopia sources for the neo |
| 05:26.52 | roh | rwhitby but you can call it qtopia-neo1973 i think. |
| 05:26.58 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:27.20 | ljp | someone stated that the distribution is also named OpenMoko |
| 05:27.28 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@wikipedia/cesarb) |
| 05:27.39 | roh | ljp hm.. we just got rid of the overlay... do you think it would make sense to merge that in? (presumed the maintainers are of with that) ? |
| 05:27.54 | ferric | so the new QPE is LGPL'd like QT? |
| 05:28.11 | roh | ferric gpl, not lgpl |
| 05:28.12 | cesarb | ferric: isn't Qt GPL, not LGPL? |
| 05:28.17 | Writchie | ferric: QT is not LGPL'd |
| 05:28.31 | cesarb | wow everyone answered at the same time :P |
| 05:28.43 | ljp | oe wont because it makes qtopia in on ebig ipkg |
| 05:29.18 | roh | basically it just means, that if tomtom would want to sell a binary and a transflash with map data, they would need to pay money to trolltech or use the lgpl gui |
| 05:29.45 | ferric | ah |
| 05:29.51 | doc|home | so, er, stuff is changing to qt? |
| 05:29.57 | cw666 | lol |
| 05:30.00 | cw666 | yes |
| 05:30.01 | ljp | nope |
| 05:30.02 | ferric | lol |
| 05:30.19 | doc|home | ah! now I understand! :( |
| 05:30.24 | doc|home | :o |
| 05:30.40 | ferric | if QPE is GPL'd ... you don't need to pay trolltech if you use it in a commercial product, as long as you release your source, right? |
| 05:30.57 | *** join/#openmoko plebz (n=plebz@209.62-50-178.enivest.net) |
| 05:31.02 | cesarb | ferric: as long as you release your source _with a GPL-compatible license_ |
| 05:31.08 | ferric | right |
| 05:31.18 | ferric | and if you don't want to, then you pay TT |
| 05:31.20 | ferric | fair enough. |
| 05:31.27 | cesarb | ferric: or rather, with a license compatible with the specific GPL version Qt uses, whichever it is |
| 05:31.34 | roh | ferric yes. but sometimes thats impossible if you need to use 3rd party components or have the wrong nda ;) |
| 05:31.53 | ferric | roh: then you pay tt and keep it closed, yes? |
| 05:32.02 | cw666 | roh: is modem event selection possible with current firmware? |
| 05:32.17 | ferric | cesarb: ah |
| 05:32.21 | roh | ferric either that, or you limit yourself to lgpl linking which allows binarys, and don't use qt |
| 05:32.45 | cw666 | ferric: if you want closed qtopia/qt you need to pay them money (it's not much though) |
| 05:32.52 | roh | cw666 i dunno exactly. you mean things like cellbroadcast? |
| 05:33.03 | ecloud | ERROR: Build of /home/rutledge/moko/openembedded/packages/gmp/gmp-native_4.2.1.bb do_configure failed |
| 05:33.09 | ecloud | configure: error: Oops, mp_limb_t is 32 bits, but the assembler code |
| 05:33.13 | ecloud | in this configuration expects 64 bits. |
| 05:33.25 | cw666 | roh: potentially those if there are a lot, anything unsolicitied other than RING was the thought |
| 05:33.28 | ecloud | but I'm using i386 debian |
| 05:33.33 | cesarb | cw666: not much... as long as trolltech is still around, and didn't one night wake up in the wrong side of the bed and increases the prices... |
| 05:34.06 | cw666 | cesarb: if you're commercially selling software you have a contract with them that offers you some protection from worst-case situations probably |
| 05:34.15 | CM | ecloud: I'm a bit late in the conversation, but I've been building on gentoo ~amd64 since early this year |
| 05:34.31 | cesarb | cw666: dunno, I never looked at their contract |
| 05:34.40 | cw666 | cesarb: it's not their contract, it's any contract |
| 05:34.44 | ecloud | CM: never yet managed to build an image |
| 05:34.44 | roh | cw666 i think there must be a command for that.. that is also needed to keep the unwanted events quiet when the app cpu sleeps. else the phone would wake up every few seconds |
| 05:34.49 | cw666 | cesarb: you dont get into something open-ended like that |
| 05:35.03 | cw666 | roh: yes, that's exactly the reason i ask |
| 05:35.15 | ecloud | so I'm trying chroot Debian |
| 05:35.19 | cw666 | roh: also, i think you need to poke the CTS in sleep mode? |
| 05:35.24 | CM | ecloud: I had a bad week when there was lots of trouble, but beside of that I've built the rootfs almost every day |
| 05:35.30 | cw666 | roh: when going to sleep i should say |
| 05:35.37 | ecloud | what's your secret? |
| 05:36.02 | Writchie | roh: do you know status of suspend - is anyone working on it yet? |
| 05:36.18 | roh | cw666 the modem should wake up the arm via irq as soon as the flowcontrol signals the arm is not accepting data |
| 05:36.41 | cw666 | roh: right, but the uart might not poke CTS correctly on sleep, so it might have to be done as part of the sleep/resume code |
| 05:36.52 | CM | ecloud: I'll do a new update, setup, openmoko-image now and see if I get any problems |
| 05:36.55 | roh | Writchie which suspend? the suspend to ram and back is working pretty well for me arm. i've not tried that with the modem yet |
| 05:37.33 | Writchie | roh: usb? gadget? serial? |
| 05:37.38 | Writchie | or just fb? |
| 05:38.05 | roh | Writchie ? |
| 05:38.14 | cw666 | roh: when you STR you can get the modem to wake you? |
| 05:38.35 | ecloud | CM: OK; I restarted mine again FWIW... wife will be home in a few minutes but I'll be back after a while |
| 05:38.47 | roh | cw666 as i said.. i did not test that yet. also gsmd has no provisions for gettint that kind of event yet. |
| 05:39.43 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 05:39.46 | Writchie | roh: suspend/resume - just wanted to know how much of it is working - usb? gadget driver? serial ports? |
| 05:39.58 | cw666 | roh: w/o gsmd you can test it |
| 05:40.07 | cw666 | roh: just kill gsmd and call the phone |
| 05:40.25 | cw666 | if you have enough RINGs in the fifo's uart and you dont read the data you're see an interrupt come in |
| 05:40.36 | Writchie | roh: wakeup maybe different in mux/non-mux modes |
| 05:40.36 | cw666 | roh: presumably then if you sleep and do it again it should wake for you? |
| 05:41.03 | cw666 | Writchie: i assume in mux mode there is potentially a dribble of packets all the time? |
| 05:41.26 | Writchie | if mux wakeup is implemented correctly, any data should should result in continuous flags until host resumes |
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| 05:42.04 | Writchie | implemented correctly on ti side that is |
| 05:42.17 | roh | Writchie ive not seen anything not come up again from suspend, so its pretty much working. there is some issue with the audio amp not beeing suspended cleanly but the rest seems to be working |
| 05:42.22 | CM | ecloud: I got the bluez error too. I know koen updated the bluez libs last evening, and there were more errors from the start. XorA|gone fixed one with bluez-utils |
| 05:42.33 | Writchie | roh: good news |
| 05:43.08 | cw666 | Writchie: off the top of your head do you know how to get the modem into mux mode? |
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| 05:43.25 | cw666 | AT+CMUX |
| 05:43.26 | cw666 | nm |
| 05:43.30 | Writchie | AT+CMUX - but then you need to negotiate within the protocol |
| 05:43.37 | cw666 | yeah |
| 05:43.47 | cw666 | is there userspace test code for that? |
| 05:43.56 | cw666 | my guess is somewhere there probably is |
| 05:43.58 | Writchie | i will have some soon |
| 05:44.19 | ecloud | I wasn't the one with bluez problems - didn't get that far yet |
| 05:44.21 | cw666 | Writchie: once that's done i guess we probably need to poke the in-kernel lice discipline |
| 05:44.21 | ecloud | ERROR: '/home/rutledge/moko/openembedded/packages/gmp/gmp-native_4.2.1.bb' failed |
| 05:44.24 | Writchie | shorter than an openmoko soon ;) |
| 05:45.01 | Writchie | cw666: the in-kernel line discipline (which last i looked was unfinished) is one of two approaches with different fans |
| 05:45.03 | cw666 | Writchie: is that your patch attached to the 'mux bug' then? from some weeks back? |
| 05:45.15 | Writchie | cw666: not my patch |
| 05:45.45 | cw666 | Writchie: if it's not partly in-kernel then to get gprs working we'll have to inject the gprs frames from userspace using tun/tao |
| 05:45.52 | Writchie | somebody did offer some patch gsm mux code i think that was rejected - "gsm port concept" i think |
| 05:45.54 | cw666 | so i think if possible it makes sense to do it there |
| 05:46.31 | CM | ecloud: When the native builds fail it can be some error when it links in to your local libraries. I've never had that error though, and the bluez error was just to remove the offending conffile from the bb file |
| 05:46.48 | Writchie | cw666: harald's original plan is/was to handle the grps for ip only on a global basis |
| 05:47.13 | cw666 | Writchie: im not sure i follow |
| 05:47.31 | ecloud | configure: error: Oops, mp_limb_t is 32 bits, but the assembler code in this configuration expects 64 bits. |
| 05:47.41 | ecloud | (after this line: checking size of mp_limb_t... 4) |
| 05:47.42 | Writchie | harald was opposed to exporting pty's for use by fax, pppd, etc. |
| 05:47.59 | ecloud | why would it expect some presumably int-like thing to be 64 bits? |
| 05:48.06 | Writchie | and bt |
| 05:48.26 | CM | ecloud: Are you building in a 64-bit environment or in the chroot? |
| 05:48.57 | ecloud | You appear to have set $CFLAGS, perhaps you also need to tell GMP the |
| 05:49.01 | ecloud | intended ABI, see "ABI and ISA" in the manual. |
| 05:49.06 | cw666 | Writchie: that seems a bit limited though |
| 05:49.07 | ecloud | This is in the chroot |
| 05:49.23 | CM | NOTE: build 200709190741: completed |
| 05:49.30 | cw666 | well, not limited, but painful to use |
| 05:49.33 | Writchie | roh: how long did you resume take? |
| 05:49.52 | roh | Writchie less than 2 seconds. rather about one |
| 05:50.06 | roh | Writchie just press the power button 2 seconds and choose lock. then it suspends |
| 05:50.06 | Writchie | hmmm; wonder whats taking so long? |
| 05:50.13 | cw666 | roh: that long? the cpu takes that long or the backlight? |
| 05:50.20 | cw666 | i expected <100ms |
| 05:50.22 | roh | Writchie it needs to completely reboot the whole hardware. |
| 05:50.41 | roh | the cpu is off. only the ram is held in self-refresh |
| 05:50.44 | Writchie | roh: then that's not suspend/resume |
| 05:50.55 | roh | thats suspend to ram |
| 05:51.05 | cw666 | it is STR |
| 05:51.15 | cw666 | STR does basically that, drops almost all hw and the CPU |
| 05:51.18 | cw666 | on desktops too |
| 05:51.21 | Writchie | resume from suspend to ram should only restart each driver at its resume call? |
| 05:51.34 | cw666 | yes, but that can be slow |
| 05:51.40 | cw666 | some hw needs some effort to poke it awake |
| 05:51.48 | roh | the rest of the hardware is off, that includes the whole lcm, audio hardware, good parts of the power subsystem and nearly all linux drivers used |
| 05:51.50 | cw666 | that said, 2s seems like a long time |
| 05:52.03 | Syk1 | I get ".../bluez-utils_3.19.bb' failed" with a current build |
| 05:52.17 | CM | ecloud: Here's my info if you want to compare http://rafb.net/p/49Oq8T51.html |
| 05:52.25 | cw666 | roh: how are you putting it to sleep? |
| 05:52.28 | roh | cw666 its more about one second. but its also not optimized or even profiled yet. just hacked down |
| 05:52.28 | CM | Syk1: The line 22 in bluez-utils_3.19.bb needs to have the second half removed since the rfcomm config file is no longer there |
| 05:52.31 | Writchie | roh: not counting usb which is not working atm, OLPC resumes is reported to resume in 160ms |
| 05:52.49 | roh | cw666 press power for 2 seconds and then 'lock' on the onscreen menue which pops up |
| 05:52.57 | Writchie | roh: one second is not bad for a start |
| 05:52.57 | cw666 | roh: doing some wakeups async would make sense long term |
| 05:53.07 | cw666 | like usb which can be slow and may not be useful |
| 05:53.30 | roh | last time i checked i had it plugged to usb, so it even enumerated in that time i think |
| 05:53.48 | cw666 | yeah, that's going to delay things more than an incoming call in reality will |
| 05:54.20 | cw666 | plus, we can cheat and do somethings like usb and audio async or deferred the work for them if need be |
| 05:54.34 | Writchie | roh: how new a kernel? |
| 05:54.50 | roh | cw666 eh.. we'll need audio to signal the ringing ;) |
| 05:55.17 | roh | recent kernel. 2.6.22.something.. i need to boot it to take a look. currently waiting for my build to complete |
| 05:55.21 | cw666 | roh: right, but we need to get the CPU up and reading the uart first |
| 05:55.26 | roh | 3128 of 4823 |
| 05:55.33 | cw666 | roh: so a 50ms delay (prob less) there wont hurt |
| 05:55.44 | Writchie | roh: mine is borked on blueZ - missing rfcomm.conf file |
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| 05:56.40 | CM | Writchie: Just remove that part on line 22 in bluez-utils_3.19.bb |
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| 05:56.54 | Writchie | CM: yeah |
| 05:57.00 | CM | Then it at least goes through |
| 05:57.04 | Writchie | but why does this stuff keep happening |
| 05:57.08 | cw666 | Writchie: so how does one deactivate the muxer mode? frob the gsm at power/up down? |
| 05:57.30 | CM | Writchie: I think it's because there's just OE, and no testing/stable split |
| 05:57.32 | Writchie | cw666: the chip remains in mux mode |
| 05:57.43 | cw666 | Writchie: there is no way to kick it out? |
| 05:58.02 | Writchie | cw666: you can end the mux mode anytime - but you normally do not want to |
| 05:58.04 | paulproteus | Is there any OpenMoko GPS news / what's the status on it? |
| 05:58.30 | Writchie | cw666: the protocol has a link suspend and wakeup |
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| 05:58.36 | doc|home | s/gps/ |
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| 05:58.49 | Writchie | which should work without loosing any data from the upper layers |
| 05:58.49 | cw666 | Writchie: oh, really i do, im using cat & echo to talk to the modem at this moment in time :-) |
| 05:59.05 | CM | paulproteus: Still that mickey|zzZZzz has the eabi version of gllin but isn't able to distribute it |
| 05:59.15 | Writchie | cw666: you'r not in RL |
| 05:59.16 | paulproteus | CM, Ah-hah, okay. |
| 05:59.50 | cw666 | one thing ive not heard people talk about is using the paragraph calligrapher handwriting recognition dlls from wince |
| 05:59.58 | cw666 | with a hacked up PE loader |
| 06:00.03 | Writchie | cw666: the mux is designed so that you normally set up a mux channel just for the unsoliciited events. |
| 06:00.22 | Writchie | you handle these on one channel |
| 06:00.31 | Writchie | then you handle voice calls on another channel |
| 06:00.37 | Writchie | fax/data etc. on another |
| 06:00.44 | Writchie | gprs on another etc. |
| 06:00.50 | cw666 | Writchie: yeah, i realize ideally is what would be done |
| 06:00.59 | cw666 | Writchie: btw, is fax supported? |
| 06:01.07 | cw666 | i looked on the wiki and found nothing |
| 06:01.30 | Writchie | right now you can just fax on the main channel if you wanted |
| 06:01.50 | cw666 | i never tried, i guess building efax wouldnt be hard |
| 06:01.59 | Writchie | ideally, fax should be on a pty as should gprs |
| 06:02.01 | cw666 | im not sure how useful it would be though |
| 06:02.20 | cw666 | Writchie: incoming faxes on the main channel have a different 'RING' then? |
| 06:02.42 | Writchie | cw666: if you set it up right yes |
| 06:02.48 | Writchie | call types are indicated |
| 06:02.58 | Writchie | and diversion are different by call type |
| 06:03.55 | Writchie | if you get an incoming fax call and you have fax called diverted to you fax mailbox then you still get option to send busy on the call - at least on some phones |
| 06:04.08 | Writchie | cw666: there are hundreds of corner cases in GSM |
| 06:05.55 | cw666 | it wounds horrible :-) |
| 06:05.59 | Writchie | cw666: not all mux's work the same way, some use dedicated channels for different functions. NEO mux is pretty standard |
| 06:06.36 | Writchie | cw666: it's not horrible - but its complex - which is why it needs to be designed and thought through. |
| 06:06.39 | cw666 | Writchie: im reading over bits of 07.10 ... ive not found how you negotiate the purpose of each DLC |
| 06:06.59 | Writchie | cw666: spec assume all DLC have all capabilities |
| 06:07.40 | Writchie | cw666: some implementations dedicate specific DLC's to specific functions |
| 06:08.52 | Writchie | there is a compatibility layer above the mux that relates mostly to modem controls and whether data is real-time (like PCM voice) |
| 06:09.40 | cw666 | that's in the spec? |
| 06:09.49 | Writchie | cw666: yes |
| 06:11.09 | Writchie | cw666: convergence layer |
| 06:11.25 | cw666 | Writchie: reading the .doc file here i realized it's corrupted and messed up |
| 06:11.40 | cw666 | Writchie: i need to rdesktop to a windows machine far far far away (at work) and convert it to pdf |
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| 06:11.43 | cw666 | sec |
| 06:11.58 | Writchie | cw666: get the latest etsi version pdf |
| 06:12.09 | Writchie | V7.2.0 |
| 06:12.31 | cw666 | Writchie: ok, will do, i was just usinf the link from the wiki |
| 06:12.34 | Writchie | http://webapp.etsi.org/key/queryform.asp |
| 06:12.49 | Writchie | ts 101 369 |
| 06:18.43 | cw666 | Writchie: heh, finally got it |
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| 06:21.18 | cw666 | Writchie: so you have some code working then? |
| 06:21.24 | cw666 | Writchie: to TX/RX HDLC frames? |
| 06:22.00 | Writchie | its not much for the mux itself |
| 06:22.39 | cw666 | i just meant test code |
| 06:22.50 | cw666 | to actually negotiate something and talk to the device |
| 06:23.06 | Writchie | it's more the framework for the pty's and d-bus |
| 06:23.47 | Writchie | pselect |
| 06:24.10 | Writchie | but it does need a bit of test code to excercize it |
| 06:24.55 | cw666 | Writchie: so for gprs you'll just poke frames down a pty and let a line disc. deal? |
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| 06:25.29 | Writchie | cw666: for now you can use pppd almost unchanged |
| 06:26.22 | Writchie | there are lots of issues to work out about how and where the gprs session parameters are handled |
| 06:26.52 | cw666 | Writchie: sure, but if you just break it out to a whole lot of pty's now, it should just work as-is |
| 06:27.04 | cw666 | maybe multiple ppp sessions if the carrier allows it |
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| 06:27.53 | Writchie | cw666: i'll be breaking out pty's on demand - connect to an existing one from BT for example, or create a new one for a device such as fax from the platform |
| 06:28.34 | Writchie | cw666: it can be kept so that it can work with a kernel mux, or oddball USB mux, or whatever. |
| 06:29.03 | Writchie | only difficult case is no mux |
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| 06:31.33 | Writchie|zzzZZZz | night all |
| 06:32.47 | ecloud | CM: thanks |
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| 06:50.26 | zecke | hi |
| 06:50.41 | rwhitby | hi zecke |
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| 06:51.28 | zecke | moin |
| 06:52.14 | Ralph | guten morgen |
| 06:53.20 | zash` | gluten morgon! |
| 06:53.28 | zash` | coffee über alles! |
| 06:53.29 | Ralph | do someone know how to find the bug# of that machbox-panel not appearing on the first start? |
| 06:53.34 | HistoryOnTheRoad | Any OS X users awake? |
| 06:54.16 | Ralph | no OS X users are drinking too much coffee - beeing up to long |
| 06:54.19 | Ralph | :) |
| 06:54.31 | Ralph | i know - i know one :) |
| 06:55.01 | HistoryOnTheRoad | Ralph: :P |
| 06:55.22 | HistoryOnTheRoad | I was wondering if any of them had gotten 2007.2 loaded up |
| 06:57.25 | HistoryOnTheRoad | I have the Mac DFU flasher, but haven't gotten much feedback on getting a 2007.2 image going ... I'm building a Debian box right now to actually get a development env and maybe a flasher going. |
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| 07:12.28 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:12.49 | mintee | merning |
| 07:18.57 | ecloud|ZZZz | letting gentoo do an emerge -veN world overnight just in case |
| 07:20.42 | CM | ecloud|ZZZz: :) |
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| 07:48.54 | Maledictus | Can u-boot use usb CDC ethernet to connect to a host? |
| 07:51.01 | Ralph | that failing gsmd and not disappearing top-panel on startup seems to me as beeing a timing probem |
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| 07:56.00 | roh | Maledictus nope. uboot does cdc acm console |
| 07:56.32 | Maledictus | ok, so no way to use the tftp command from gta01? |
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| 07:58.18 | roh | Maledictus you can use dfu to upload a image into ram |
| 07:59.09 | Maledictus | hmm. ok. thanks |
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| 08:01.15 | Ralph | who is working on that gsmd startup problem? |
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| 08:05.57 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] |
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| 08:09.51 | gordonsyme | hmmm... I get a segfault when I run `make qemu` during the flashing portion: http://pastebin.ca/702978 |
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| 08:12.13 | abraxa_ | mickey|openexpo: Just a quick note: I updated my Neo, put my patched gst-mad plugin on it and it works with pulsesink as desired - not sure where your problem lies atm, I can send you the library to test yourself whenever you have time |
| 08:13.11 | Maledictus | YAY! I found the s3c2442 user's manual :D |
| 08:13.48 | *** join/#openmoko burton` (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-14-81.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:14.06 | mickey|openexpo | abraxa_: oh really? woot. |
| 08:14.16 | mickey|openexpo | abraxa_: any improvements in actual performance? |
| 08:14.50 | abraxa_ | mickey|openexpo: I'm making the media player build custom pipes atm, so I can tell you more when that's done ;) |
| 08:18.09 | Maledictus | roh: are you sure the microsdhc is connected to the graphics accelerator? |
| 08:19.28 | *** join/#openmoko impy_arg (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:21.44 | roh | Maledictus yes. ive the schems |
| 08:29.38 | *** join/#openmoko impulse (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
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| 08:34.17 | Elrond | abraxa_ - Hi, BTW! |
| 08:34.27 | abraxa_ | Heya Elrond :) |
| 08:34.28 | mickey|openexpo | abraxa_: ok, cool |
| 08:34.44 | mickey|openexpo | yo Elrond |
| 08:35.44 | Elrond | Hi mickey|openexpo! :) |
| 08:36.29 | Maledictus | roh: I don't get what storage media has to do with graphics... |
| 08:37.30 | mickey|openexpo | well |
| 08:37.37 | mickey|openexpo | it's all about integration |
| 08:37.39 | roh | Maledictus that easy. we need the sdio port on the samsung soc for wifi |
| 08:37.58 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:38.03 | Maledictus | ah, ok. there was no port left I suppose. |
| 08:38.24 | *** join/#openmoko angasule_ (n=angasule@190.49.245.162) |
| 08:38.31 | roh | well.. the smedia had one left |
| 08:39.06 | Lynet_ | That sounds like fun hackery. :) |
| 08:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (n=5512ea02@207.250.49.24) |
| 08:39.38 | roh | not really... that port is there for a reason. to connect sd media |
| 08:39.43 | Elrond | So to access the mmc, the soc has to talk to the smedia, which talks to the mmc? |
| 08:39.44 | Maledictus | So, do I have to wait for the smedia docs before I can talk to the microsdhc or is it simply connected pass-through? |
| 08:40.00 | roh | Elrond kind of like that. |
| 08:40.16 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 08:41.13 | Lynet_ | So where's the SD controller in all this? on the smedia? |
| 08:42.04 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@216.239.55.10) |
| 08:42.20 | roh | Lynet_ yes. the one for the sd memory. the other one is connected to the ar6k |
| 08:43.38 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A56ACE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:43.57 | Ghiottone|work | goodmorning all |
| 08:45.27 | Lynet_ | Is there documentation on the smedia? wiki says TBD. |
| 08:45.45 | roh | Lynet_ when we've written it. |
| 08:46.14 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (n=kwkw@216.239.55.7) |
| 08:46.37 | roh | Lynet_ http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-September/010175.html |
| 08:47.52 | emdete | what does the kernel want to say with '<4>JFFS2 warning: (1153) jffs2_sum_write_sumnode: Not enough space for summary, padsize = -18'? |
| 08:48.00 | Maledictus | I'm actually sooo happy that there will be docs :D |
| 08:48.13 | emdete | is this earnest? (16% free space on the device btw) |
| 08:48.45 | Lynet_ | roh: Thx. |
| 08:48.57 | Ghiottone|work | yesterday I tried to boot from the SD card but got problems with mmcinit and ext2ls commands in u-boot... where can I look to see the reason? I don't have the error nor the phone here |
| 08:51.27 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03mickey * r3009 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (src/sato-utils.h svn-commit.2.tmp svn-commit.tmp): moko-gtk-engine: remove bogus files |
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| 09:20.53 | emdete | nobody a hint for my kernel warning? |
| 09:22.01 | jas4711 | when i use 'cu -l /dev/ttyACM0' i get a permission denied error. the neo is connected to usb and the /dev/ttyACM0 device is present. i'm root. any ideas? thanks |
| 09:22.37 | zash` | ls -l /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 09:23.16 | jas4711 | crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 2007-09-19 11:23 /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 09:23.22 | ynezz | strace cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 for more clue |
| 09:23.27 | jas4711 | kernel says: cdc_acm 2-2:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device |
| 09:23.39 | jas4711 | done that, just: open("/dev/ttyACM0", O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) |
| 09:24.24 | ynezz | are you really root? |
| 09:24.39 | jas4711 | yup: uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root) |
| 09:24.57 | jas4711 | i haven't upgrade my u-boot ever though. do i have to do anything on the neo? |
| 09:25.16 | jas4711 | now i'm just starting it with aux+power with the usb cable inserted |
| 09:25.51 | *** join/#openmoko Weiss (i=taw27@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) |
| 09:26.02 | jas4711 | i just tried minicom, it works fine. sorry for the noise. still, weird that cu doesn't work |
| 09:26.13 | ynezz | ah |
| 09:26.28 | jpcass | does cu run as another user? |
| 09:26.39 | ynezz | dunno, don't use it personaly |
| 09:26.43 | jas4711 | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 141268 2007-02-17 18:20 /usr/bin/cu |
| 09:26.47 | ynezz | i use minicom |
| 09:26.57 | jas4711 | normal debian etch install but now running debian testing |
| 09:28.21 | ynezz | strace cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 | grep euid |
| 09:28.29 | ynezz | do you get something? |
| 09:28.56 | jas4711 | setreuid32(10, 10) = 0 |
| 09:29.01 | jas4711 | sigh |
| 09:29.05 | ynezz | there you go |
| 09:29.37 | emdete | cu uses user uucp by default, true? |
| 09:30.00 | jas4711 | yes, uid 10 is uucp on debian |
| 09:30.22 | emdete | that's the cause the wiki state to do a chown uucp:uucp /dev/tt.... |
| 09:30.36 | ynezz | :) |
| 09:31.02 | jas4711 | heh. which wiki page? i'm just following the flashing moko page.. |
| 09:31.16 | jas4711 | found it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader |
| 09:32.09 | zdanek | jas4711: did you change permissions to uucp? |
| 09:32.18 | zdanek | as emdete said |
| 09:32.35 | jas4711 | i've done so now, and it works fine. sorry for the noise.. |
| 09:32.41 | jas4711 | thanks everyone |
| 09:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko impy (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 09:42.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3010 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c): |
| 09:42.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c: (moko_finger_scroll_refresh): |
| 09:42.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Take the border-width property of the container into account when |
| 09:42.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: calculating if scroll-indicators should be visible |
| 09:48.30 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A77bd.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 09:48.41 | *** join/#openmoko dotmef (n=mef@mx1.bitwise.org) |
| 09:48.43 | hhf423 | re |
| 09:48.59 | *** join/#openmoko impulse (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 09:49.07 | hhf423 | qtopia is out for the neo, eh? |
| 09:49.27 | zdanek | yes |
| 09:49.43 | zdanek | did you see a video by ScaredyCat? |
| 09:49.58 | hhf423 | does that rely on its own gsmd (or alike) or on the one we have? |
| 09:49.58 | wibbit | zdanek: do you have a link? |
| 09:50.10 | zdanek | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW5q8SpY7t4 |
| 09:50.13 | bluelightning | hhf423: running here |
| 09:50.17 | emdete | hhf423: it has all in its own |
| 09:50.26 | emdete | one big blob, no components |
| 09:50.31 | hhf423 | zdanek: you mean the videos here and the bottom? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 |
| 09:50.47 | hhf423 | oh, then its probably working? |
| 09:50.48 | bluelightning | it's not bad... (almost) having a usable phone out of the box is nice |
| 09:50.50 | zdanek | I suppose that are the same |
| 09:51.20 | zdanek | yes, that are "these" videos |
| 09:51.26 | hhf423 | my Neo died again. battery a bit too low. |
| 09:51.50 | hhf423 | I hate these charger issues |
| 09:52.40 | emdete | is someone also playing with webkit? |
| 09:53.02 | hhf423 | so, now we have some competition, eh? openmoko vs qtopia |
| 09:53.37 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:53.43 | hhf423 | bluelightning: so how do you like it. I need to wait for my Neo to trickle charge until I can try :-) |
| 09:54.07 | guaqua | the two platforms have a bit different approach |
| 09:54.26 | jpcass | it has to be admitted, its quite nice. |
| 09:54.27 | emdete | guaqua: yes... openmoko goes the unix way ;) |
| 09:54.47 | wibbit | I hope scrolling speed and general responsiveness increases with the 3d excel chip |
| 09:55.07 | emdete | jpcass: depends what you are looking at. if you look under the hood i like om by far better |
| 09:55.09 | bluelightning | hhf423: it's OK... I have to say I kind of prefer the look of the OpenMoko UI, but themes are supported so I guess that can be changed |
| 09:55.27 | jpcass | ui is fairly responsive...phone features work well... |
| 09:55.45 | guaqua | emdete: dunno about that :) |
| 09:55.59 | jpcass | emdete: i proabably agree but yesterday my neo sat on my desk, today its in my pocket. |
| 09:56.00 | bluelightning | the keyboard input is of an interesting design but behaves oddly here... I can't figure out what the heck it's doing sometimes |
| 09:56.13 | CM | I'm seeding the full version of ScaredyCat's videos btw: http://linuxtracker.org/download.php?id=4613&name=qt_on_neo1973_videos.torrent |
| 09:56.27 | mmazur | You mean the qtopia software is actually usable? |
| 09:56.30 | mmazur | Hibernation and all? |
| 09:56.44 | jpcass | it takes some getting used to - i like the way there are layers of action you can make on it. |
| 09:56.45 | CM | mmazur: It worked for ScaredyCat |
| 09:56.55 | bluelightning | they say PM works, though I suspect that has a lot more to do with the kernel than anything else |
| 09:56.56 | mmazur | Hmm. |
| 09:57.05 | emdete | jpcass: the neo wasnt meant for that ;) |
| 09:57.12 | hhf423 | let me also seed |
| 09:57.15 | emdete | s/neo/neo gta1/ |
| 09:57.18 | jpcass | mmazur: actually that is where it falls down, hibernation often fails - power management is a big issue. |
| 09:57.35 | mmazur | Ok, so what's the current status of all this? |
| 09:57.37 | jpcass | i showed it to some friends in the pub last night they all want to get one ;-) |
| 09:57.48 | mmazur | Everybody abandoning openmoko and going for qtopia or what? |
| 09:57.56 | wibbit | jpcass: it doesn't look that way in a lot of the demo's |
| 09:58.28 | bluelightning | mmazur: I doubt it... but I'm sure there will be adherents of both |
| 09:58.50 | bluelightning | I haven't made up my mind yet, it's too early |
| 09:58.59 | jpcass | qtopia is not using X so its not as standards based or flexible... |
| 09:59.07 | hhf423 | mmazur: the OM core team will continue to work on OM |
| 09:59.14 | bluelightning | I do like how polished Qtopia is in terms of functionality, but I guess it has been developed for a lot longer |
| 09:59.25 | jpcass | i think there is room for both (and others even) |
| 09:59.40 | jpcass | you should be able to dual boot |
| 09:59.42 | bluelightning | jpcass: that's a bit of a stretch... |
| 09:59.55 | bluelightning | it does support other standards you know, it just chooses not to use X |
| 10:00.02 | hhf423 | well, in the short term, qtopia will distract some peole from OM, but there will be more people interested |
| 10:00.18 | emdete | mmazur: never... |
| 10:01.24 | emdete | bluelightning: which standards do you talk about? |
| 10:01.37 | hhf423 | it might increase the pressure on the OM team to get their stuff working |
| 10:02.04 | bluelightning | emdete: all sorts... seems they are using / going to use syncml for one |
| 10:02.05 | jpcass | from what i see i dont think the OM team need more pressure. |
| 10:02.10 | mmazur | Yup. |
| 10:02.20 | mmazur | Considering their stuff kinda doesn't work, I'd say that's pressure enough :) |
| 10:02.25 | jpcass | also they are working a lot on kernel stuff which is anyway used by qtopia |
| 10:02.26 | bluelightning | making the blanket statement that it "is not standards-based" goes too far IMO |
| 10:02.26 | hhf423 | or people will just slowly trickle over to qtopia, of course except for those who don't like it. but everybody who is with OM just beceuase he has no choice now has a choice |
| 10:03.10 | hhf423 | mmazur: there is still noone from OM working on gsmd. And thats broken since the beginning and should be prio one. |
| 10:03.50 | XorA | god you guys need to get out more, Angstrom, gpe-phone-edition and some other distro not built from OE already ran on Neo so OM has never been the only choice |
| 10:03.51 | bluelightning | hhf423: indeed... I'm an apps developer myself, what I need is a working and stable platform to build on, and right now that needs improvement in OM |
| 10:04.19 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A77bd.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 10:04.40 | hhf423 | CM: can you repost the torrent link? I had to restart my irc client |
| 10:04.41 | bluelightning | XorA: yes well most of those have not been as well publicised |
| 10:04.44 | ScaredyCat | gsm didn't work in gpe-phone-edition |
| 10:05.27 | CM | hhf423: http://linuxtracker.org/download.php?id=4613&name=qt_on_neo1973_videos.torrent |
| 10:05.47 | XorA | bluelightning: well Angstrom wasnt out of politness, but it wasnt hard to find |
| 10:06.36 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[IPhone]] [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[GTA02_Openness]] |
| 10:08.02 | hhf423 | CM: downloading now, then sharing/seeding |
| 10:09.35 | jpcass | has anyone pointed ipkg on their neo to their own build packages? is it just a change in /etc/ipkg/... |
| 10:09.42 | hhf423 | hmmm, unable to connect to tracker, crap |
| 10:09.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3011 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c): |
| 10:09.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c: (update): |
| 10:09.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Don't clear entry when user-entered text matches hint text |
| 10:11.42 | rwhitby | jpcass: export your build tree via a web server, and just point to the deploy dirs |
| 10:12.05 | jpcass | rwhitby: thanks |
| 10:12.34 | emdete | jpcass: yes. you need to run `make build-package-package-index` |
| 10:13.02 | *** join/#openmoko der_io (n=der@p54A0C45F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
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| 10:30.58 | mickey|openexpo | hmm |
| 10:31.03 | mickey|openexpo | ~lart flakey networks |
| 10:31.03 | apt | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on flakey networks |
| 10:33.21 | ScaredyCat | chocolatey |
| 10:34.48 | hhf423 | ahh, nowww |
| 10:35.17 | raster | mmmmmmmmm flakey goodness |
| 10:35.31 | mickey|openexpo | hmm |
| 10:35.35 | mickey|openexpo | google maps rocks on the Neo |
| 10:35.54 | *** join/#openmoko rxr (n=rene@port-212-202-170-151.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:35.56 | jas4711 | i've had problems with the top-level icon tray disappearing, typically when i select the gsm symbol and either 'power-up antenna' or 'auto-register network'. anyone else seen this? |
| 10:36.11 | mickey|openexpo | yes. everything that communicates w/ gsmd is a bit flaky |
| 10:36.15 | mickey|openexpo | yet |
| 10:36.32 | XorA | and when gsmd fails, the whole of matchbox-panel goes down with it |
| 10:37.18 | jas4711 | aha ok. |
| 10:37.39 | EdSchouten | Harrr! Talk like a pirate! |
| 10:37.49 | EdSchouten | 19th of september |
| 10:37.52 | EdSchouten | talk like a pirate day |
| 10:38.24 | hhf423 | mickey|openexpo: which browser are you using? |
| 10:38.36 | mickey|openexpo | hhf423: openmoko-browser2 :D |
| 10:38.49 | mickey|openexpo | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/2c059c58e8bbecc1d23b3644765e5b3b.png |
| 10:38.52 | raster | haha |
| 10:38.58 | raster | bsmd |
| 10:39.02 | raster | almost bdsmd |
| 10:39.35 | hhf423 | mickey|openexpo: since when is that there? in the sep17 build? |
| 10:39.46 | mickey|openexpo | nah |
| 10:39.59 | mickey|openexpo | zecke compiled the first version when he was @ my place |
| 10:40.06 | mickey|openexpo | this is brand new stuff |
| 10:40.15 | mickey|openexpo | i'm building it on buildhost atm. |
| 10:40.21 | hhf423 | ah, then I'll go and flash qtopia |
| 10:40.27 | mickey|openexpo | right |
| 10:41.01 | jpcass | hhf423: no browser in qtopia release... |
| 10:41.51 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-156-155.44-151.net24.it) |
| 10:41.53 | hhf423 | jpcass: no worries. but I can make phone calls! |
| 10:42.36 | *** join/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 10:42.50 | dotmef | can't find a media player either - is there one? |
| 10:43.01 | hhf423 | mickey|openexpo: say, any news on GPS? |
| 10:43.03 | mickey|openexpo | phone calls are overrated |
| 10:43.09 | jas4711 | has anyone built the qtopia stuff for neo for themselves, or is everyone using their binary firmware? |
| 10:43.26 | hhf423 | mickey|openexpo: yes, I think we get that |
| 10:43.27 | mickey|openexpo | hhf423: no. the eabi-gllin i have doesn't work |
| 10:44.21 | mickey|openexpo | well, it's not that i wouldn't like to have phone calls working. but it's not my task, so complaining to me doesn't help |
| 10:44.26 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3012 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (9 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 10:44.26 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * moko-gtk-engine/src/moko-draw.c: |
| 10:44.26 | CIA-23 | openmoko: - Adjust gradient stops to give glossed appearance. |
| 10:44.26 | CIA-23 | openmoko: - Add gradient to "inactive" tabs |
| 10:44.26 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * moko-gtk-engine/src/moko-utils.h: rename from sato-utils.h |
| 10:44.27 | mickey|openexpo | *shrug* |
| 10:44.27 | jpcass | jas4711: just the binary, Im too busy trying to understand openembedded to look at another one! |
| 10:44.28 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * moko-gtk-engine/data/openmoko-contacts |
| 10:44.32 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * moko-gtk-engine/data/openmoko-panel-plugins |
| 10:44.55 | XorA | mickey|openexpo: are you presenting at this conference? |
| 10:45.00 | mickey|openexpo | XorA: yes |
| 10:45.11 | mickey|openexpo | we have a booth |
| 10:45.15 | mickey|openexpo | and i'm giving a talk tomorrow |
| 10:45.18 | XorA | mickey|openexpo: cool |
| 10:45.36 | hhf423 | openmoko is evolving fast, usually I get "complaining to me does not help" only when a company reaches 300 employees |
| 10:45.59 | hhf423 | sorry, but this keeps being frustrating |
| 10:46.04 | mickey|openexpo | well |
| 10:46.10 | mickey|openexpo | the only thing you will get is me leaving this channel |
| 10:46.28 | wibbit | CM: your expecting an announcement soon? |
| 10:46.49 | CM | wibbit: I think mickey|openexpo might have something to say tomorrow :) |
| 10:46.57 | wibbit | oooo |
| 10:47.02 | mickey|openexpo | CM: nothing new |
| 10:47.03 | mickey|openexpo | sorry |
| 10:47.10 | CM | Aww.. I was just hoping! |
| 10:47.14 | XorA | poeple seem to forget OM employees are spread over the globe and in different timezones, so its not like mickey|openexpo can just shout across the room to another dev to ask hows its going |
| 10:47.19 | CM | What about the video driver stuff? |
| 10:47.23 | wibbit | mickey|openexpo: darn |
| 10:47.26 | CM | Still secret? |
| 10:47.33 | mickey|openexpo | well |
| 10:47.56 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-192-164.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:48.39 | hhf423 | XorA: hahaha, are you bloody joking? I work in exactly the same environment, spanning about 8 timezones. Thats what IRC and IM is good for. |
| 10:49.39 | XorA | hhf423: no im not joking, people tend to whine at whatever OM employee happens to be logged in here, regardless of their area of expertise |
| 10:49.41 | wibbit | hhf423: IRC and IM does not account for, sleeeeeeeeeep |
| 10:49.57 | hhf423 | wibbit: sleep is overrated |
| 10:50.17 | jpcass | CM: video driver stuff? |
| 10:50.32 | hhf423 | XorA: yeah, we can probably be happy that OM employees do show up here |
| 10:51.00 | XorA | hhf423: and the ones that arent here get passed info from the ones that are, so people complaints do get seen :-D |
| 10:51.49 | CM | jpcass: For the GTA02. Was refering to some earlier comment that was something like "Wait until you hear what guy we've hired to work on the gpu drivers!" :) |
| 10:52.11 | XorA | CM: thats obvious, its Bill Gates |
| 10:52.16 | *** join/#openmoko ajmitch (n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) |
| 10:52.18 | CM | XorA: :P |
| 10:52.25 | XorA | GPU drivers in VB |
| 10:52.32 | hhf423 | XorA: I get it. Be happy that anyone is still talking to you. If you're not happy, go to qtopia or sell your neo |
| 10:52.54 | CM | I agree with some earlier comment that a bi-weekly official status update mail or something would be great |
| 10:52.57 | jpcass | hhf423: or slightly ervise your expectations? |
| 10:53.03 | jpcass | s/ervise/revise/ |
| 10:53.25 | CM | Doesn't have to be much, just a few lines mentioning what have been happening during the last two weeks and any major additions like web browser or mediaplayer |
| 10:53.38 | XorA | hhf423: not really its just GSM problems are known and worked on, bugging some poor guy who is currently at a conference every half an hour wont fix those problems |
| 10:53.46 | hhf423 | jpcass: yes, be happy that the gui is evolving, stop asking for gsmd |
| 10:53.57 | CM | But that's someting for someone like Sean or so, not the devs themselves. But I know there's always a lack of time... |
| 10:54.17 | hhf423 | XorA: there is noone working on gsmd. Where did you get that somone is working on gsmd |
| 10:55.04 | XorA | hhf423: no-one? it didnt grow itself into life you know |
| 10:55.54 | hhf423 | XorA: is is very easy to see if somone is working on a OM component: the commitlogs. Around the hui a lot is happning. there is ca. nothing on gsmd |
| 10:56.27 | hhf423 | XorA: if you look into the logs you can see that there was something happing start of august, but that was not an OM person |
| 10:57.39 | XorA | hhf423: Id refer you back to posts on community about the size of OM and priorities |
| 11:01.34 | ScaredyCat | you don'tthink gsm is a priority? |
| 11:01.58 | XorA | ScaredyCat: personally I would rank working hardware as priotity 1 |
| 11:02.11 | XorA | ScaredyCat: without that the software is worthless |
| 11:02.27 | ScaredyCat | we have hardware |
| 11:02.40 | *** join/#openmoko LeRrA (n=lerra@h-89-233-205-54.wholesale.rp80.se) |
| 11:02.52 | XorA | ScaredyCat: but we all know GTA01 isnt the final revision |
| 11:03.11 | ScaredyCat | true, but it IS a supported revision |
| 11:03.20 | jpcass | agrees with rwhitby |
| 11:03.23 | XorA | ScaredyCat: and this is an Open project, someone is free to fix up gsm anytime they like |
| 11:03.35 | XorA | ScaredyCat: I would if I had time outside of my job here |
| 11:03.36 | ScaredyCat | roflmao |
| 11:04.09 | CM | ScaredyCat: :P |
| 11:04.34 | CM | Btw, should I add the torrent links to the full videos to the wiki? |
| 11:04.49 | ScaredyCat | besides XorA... the gsm part of it isn't changing... is it? |
| 11:04.56 | CM | It's only me seeding now, but there's been maybe 4-5 downloads during the night |
| 11:05.01 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 11:05.09 | ScaredyCat | I thought the tracker barfed |
| 11:05.27 | ScaredyCat | if it's back I'll seed again |
| 11:05.42 | ScaredyCat | but yes, you can add ht elinks |
| 11:05.53 | ScaredyCat | the links |
| 11:07.34 | CM | Done |
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| 11:08.42 | thos | rwhitby: that's a pretty good summary :-) |
| 11:09.45 | raster | rwhitby: why is gsmd so buggy? |
| 11:09.55 | raster | just lack of love and attention/good coding? |
| 11:10.13 | thos | raster: basically |
| 11:10.33 | thos | raster: I would say that and strict "no dependencies" |
| 11:10.44 | thos | i.e. nothing but libc can be used |
| 11:10.58 | CM | Is that for lgpl reasons or something else? |
| 11:11.08 | raster | it cant be hard to replace it |
| 11:11.21 | raster | just need some ipc handling |
| 11:11.25 | raster | and talk to a serial port |
| 11:11.29 | raster | and keep some minimal state |
| 11:11.33 | thos | raster: a d-bus version would be really really nice ;-) |
| 11:11.37 | raster | do some at command goop |
| 11:11.48 | raster | thos: i might consider that at some point |
| 11:12.03 | raster | but no time |
| 11:12.08 | raster | bigger fish to fry |
| 11:14.49 | hhf423 | XorA: yeah, working gsm is a user feature. If the user wants it, the user writes it. |
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| 11:16.14 | hhf423 | rwhitby: you can not test stuff "on the run", you can not encounter all the quirks that one encounters when actually _using_ something, and not just playing with it |
| 11:16.45 | ScaredyCat | \o/ Hotdogs! |
| 11:17.50 | CM | :) |
| 11:18.52 | zash` | hhf423: cookies! |
| 11:20.07 | zash` | blue; no, hairy; kind of |
| 11:20.30 | zash` | yay! |
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| 11:26.25 | andylockran | hey guys |
| 11:26.33 | rwhitby | hhf423: do you have the matchbox session restart work-around in place? |
| 11:27.25 | rwhitby | cause with that I'm getting gsmd stability throughout the day |
| 11:28.42 | dotmef | rwhitby: how does that work-around work, or where is it documented? |
| 11:29.11 | rwhitby | dotmef: I sent an email about it to openmoko-devel about a week ago I think. |
| 11:29.13 | hhf423 | rwhitby: you mean stop/start gsmd in matchbox/session? |
| 11:29.17 | rwhitby | hhf423: yes |
| 11:29.24 | hhf423 | rwhitby: yes |
| 11:29.43 | rwhitby | and your gsmd still regularly crashes? |
| 11:29.51 | dotmef | rwhitby: ah ok - I do that already. I actually just use a stop, because the dialer does its own stop & start |
| 11:32.40 | hhf423 | rwhitby: yes, still too often to be called reliable |
| 11:33.35 | hhf423 | ohh, qt tells me about six SMS that I have :-) |
| 11:35.49 | hhf423 | wow, how slick is that |
| 11:37.04 | hhf423 | hahaha, the screen lock is cool |
| 11:37.06 | thos | hhf423: well, it's the kinda thing you expect from a phone platform that's been in development for at least 4 years ;-) |
| 11:37.35 | dotmef | hhf423: be wary of changing the theme |
| 11:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko apollo13 (n=apollo13@unaffiliated/apollo13) |
| 11:37.53 | apollo13 | make qemu stops with http://dpaste.com/20073/, what can I do? |
| 11:38.37 | rwhitby | apollo13: weird - never seen that one before. |
| 11:40.55 | apollo13 | do need any infos about my sys? |
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| 11:43.45 | rwhitby | apollo13: I have no idea how to help you on that one, sorry, |
| 11:44.09 | apollo13 | hmm, weird |
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| 12:00.33 | Any_Key | maybe time related, try to increase time to sleep |
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| 12:02.12 | apollo13 | Any_Key, how? |
| 12:02.31 | Any_Key | in flash.sh |
| 12:02.36 | apollo13 | ok thx |
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| 12:07.08 | apollo13 | it segfaults here: |
| 12:07.10 | apollo13 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.10 | apollo13 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.10 | apollo13 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[IPhone_%28GTA01%29]] |
| 12:07.25 | apollo13 | I put sleep to 20 seconds |
| 12:07.29 | apollo13 | instead of $2 |
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| 12:08.08 | apollo13 | line 88 is if ! wait $pid; then |
| 12:08.54 | Mek | apollo13: removing the "nand createbbt" line from flash.sh seems to have fixed that crash for me... (and everything else seemed to work fine afterwards as well) |
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| 12:10.40 | apollo13 | ah thx :) |
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| 12:13.19 | apollo13 | Mek: thx, it's booting now :) |
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| 12:29.06 | Sup3rkiddo | so heres problem with my neo, it switches off if i restart the gsmd..! |
| 12:29.17 | Sup3rkiddo | er..weird problem |
| 12:29.58 | XorA | Sup3rkiddo: thats a new twist |
| 12:30.32 | Sup3rkiddo | XorA, fyi, maybe i need to reflash the device with the latest images... |
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| 13:08.18 | hhf423 | Sup3rkiddo: did you change the boot parameters? |
| 13:08.29 | hhf423 | bug 788 |
| 13:08.35 | Sup3rkiddo | hhf423, nope, i didnt... |
| 13:08.37 | hhf423 | ombug 788 |
| 13:08.40 | Sup3rkiddo | oh..jus a sec |
| 13:08.47 | Sup3rkiddo | !ombug 788 |
| 13:09.10 | hhf423 | change setenv bootargs_base to without the "console=ttySAC0,115200" , then saveenv |
| 13:09.32 | hhf423 | you need to change that in uboot |
| 13:09.48 | hhf423 | did you flash the .08 uboot from august 19? |
| 13:10.05 | Sup3rkiddo | i never touched the uboot |
| 13:10.39 | hhf423 | Sup3rkiddo: this upboot is considered safe and no manual nand erase magic is required: |
| 13:10.40 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 13:10.40 | Sup3rkiddo | it still has the one flashed at the factory.. |
| 13:10.51 | hhf423 | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.08/images/ |
| 13:11.05 | Sup3rkiddo | hhf423, oh ok..cool |
| 13:11.18 | Sup3rkiddo | but the thought of getting screwed..brrr. |
| 13:11.32 | hhf423 | I really recommand that uboot and the bootargs change :-) |
| 13:11.48 | Sup3rkiddo | bah.. |
| 13:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9B90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:12.25 | hhf423 | Sup3rkiddo: yes, there is some risk left, although that ubott did get testing and I think a lot people here already flashed that without issues. |
| 13:12.29 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.13.133.246) |
| 13:12.45 | hhf423 | ah, if you have the debug board, there is really no excuse :-) |
| 13:13.04 | Sup3rkiddo | hhf423, the neo is just two days old..=) |
| 13:14.19 | hhf423 | Sup3rkiddo: flash that stuff, do the bootargs change, then when you have flashed, change the matchbox/session like explained in "phase 1 software testing" and then make your first neo call to someone meaningful :-) |
| 13:14.36 | Sup3rkiddo | hhf423, like my dog,...=) |
| 13:14.45 | hhf423 | like, your mom :-) |
| 13:15.09 | hhf423 | if a girlfried is not available |
| 13:15.09 | Sup3rkiddo | :P, |
| 13:15.37 | Sup3rkiddo | hhf423, gah, girlfriends? what are they?, thanks for the headsup man, |
| 13:15.53 | hhf423 | sure |
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| 13:17.14 | riot | wtf..? |
| 13:17.19 | riot | ..heya :) |
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| 13:19.57 | zefanja | do someone know the name of the openmoko font? |
| 13:21.30 | mickey|openexpo | SansaSoft |
| 13:22.41 | mickey|openexpo | according to http://people.openmoko.org/sean/files/openmoko_trademark.pdf |
| 13:22.44 | mwester | Morning all. |
| 13:22.47 | Sup3rkiddo | ..am i allowed to comment on qtopia without getting beaten up =| |
| 13:22.54 | mickey|openexpo | sure |
| 13:22.57 | XorA | Sup3rkiddo: comment away |
| 13:23.06 | XorA | Sup3rkiddo: we are going to steal all the good bits |
| 13:23.10 | Sup3rkiddo | XorA, it looks damn sexy imho...that is all |
| 13:23.50 | XorA | Sup3rkiddo: just you wait until OM gets the hasslehof theme :-D |
| 13:24.02 | Sup3rkiddo | XorA, yay, |
| 13:27.59 | emdete | what does the kernel want to say me with '<4>JFFS2 warning: (1153) jffs2_sum_write_sumnode: Not enough space for summary, padsize = -18'? |
| 13:29.57 | mickey|openexpo | other than "not enough space" ? |
| 13:30.12 | emdete | no, 16% free |
| 13:30.29 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-173-149.44-151.net24.it) |
| 13:32.11 | mickey|openexpo | could be not enough |
| 13:32.18 | mickey|openexpo | jffs2 needs a certain percentage of free space |
| 13:32.21 | mickey|openexpo | otherwise it can't operate |
| 13:33.33 | emdete | but it still works fine... |
| 13:33.44 | *** part/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-126-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:33.51 | emdete | is there any ckfs for jffs2? |
| 13:37.35 | mickey|openexpo | no |
| 13:38.05 | emdete | how can i be shure the fs is consistent? |
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| 13:38.42 | DukeOfURL | Good morning. Where can I find a transcript of yesterday's chat? |
| 13:38.46 | PBeck | hi |
| 13:39.31 | mmazur | I believe for various reasons this channel is not being logged. |
| 13:39.56 | apollo13 | it is |
| 13:39.58 | emdete | no, there is a logg, they talked about that yesterday... see the logg ;) |
| 13:40.12 | mmazur | :) |
| 13:40.43 | jgm | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23openmoko/ |
| 13:40.49 | zefanja | mickey|openexpo: thx. is this a free font? |
| 13:40.59 | mickey|openexpo | zefanja: unfortunately not |
| 13:41.06 | mickey|openexpo | good free fonts are rare |
| 13:41.18 | mickey|openexpo | there's vera, gentium, liberation |
| 13:41.18 | apollo13 | or http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko.txt |
| 13:41.19 | mickey|openexpo | that's it |
| 13:41.38 | DukeOfURL | jgm: thanks |
| 13:41.47 | mwester | What about the new liberty fonts (I think that's the name) that showed up (and broke things) when I installed Fedora 7? |
| 13:41.50 | zefanja | mickey|openexpo: ok |
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| 13:47.30 | DukeOfURL | is there any news about webkit? |
| 13:47.43 | emdete | what do u wanna here? |
| 13:48.01 | DukeOfURL | availability? |
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| 13:48.17 | emdete | moko-make it... works fine ;) |
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| 13:48.56 | DukeOfURL | can't. gcc-cross is broken atm |
| 13:49.22 | emdete | DukeOfURL: on your machine? i currently build all the time... |
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| 13:52.58 | DukeOfURL | emdete: http://pastebin.org/2818 |
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| 13:58.06 | emdete | strange - i did a wget/update some hours ago... |
| 13:58.53 | mwester | Yes, there has been some "messing about" with the gcc in the repository once again. |
| 13:59.03 | mwester | It is supposed to be fixed as of a few minutes ago. |
| 13:59.25 | emdete | ah, okay... so i leave... bye! |
| 13:59.29 | mwester | Update your build env, and see if that doesn't fix it. |
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| 14:01.53 | Ghiottone|work | gnu: ping |
| 14:02.05 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A5DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:04.55 | rwhitby | DukeOfURL: for "yesterday" look in http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-prev.txt - it always holds "yesterday" (for same value of $timezone) |
| 14:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f049175163.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:07.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[User:ChrisLord]] |
| 14:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek (n=ds@fw2.autoguard.pl) |
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| 14:14.38 | riot | i'm having problems with "ttf-liberation_0.2.bb", because wget tries to access a https-url without having the certificate nor -no-check... |
| 14:15.45 | DukeOfURL | still no joy: http://pastebin.org/2819 |
| 14:16.02 | DukeOfURL | gotta go to work. thanks. |
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| 14:27.21 | andylockran | this is a bit of a long stretch - but does the technology in the neo1973 have the ability to allow it to be used as a guitar tuner? |
| 14:27.38 | mmazur | ... |
| 14:27.48 | guaqua | i'm guessing yes |
| 14:27.54 | guaqua | depends on the microphone |
| 14:28.00 | mmazur | Well, I assume it's enough to have a nice microphone. |
| 14:28.11 | Mek | hey... that's what I'm trying to implement... |
| 14:28.13 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@adsl-212-16-103-6.taloyhtioverkot.fi) |
| 14:28.14 | andylockran | I was just curious.. |
| 14:28.20 | andylockran | Mek: how are you getting on |
| 14:28.21 | Mek | (although it is my first gtk+ experience...) |
| 14:28.29 | Mek | I just started yesterday :P |
| 14:28.41 | andylockran | Mek: no problems. do you have the project public anywhere |
| 14:28.55 | andylockran | I wouldn't mind helping you out (my first GTK+ experience too). |
| 14:29.12 | Mek | not yet... I registered a project at projects.openmoko.org, but I haven't received a reply/confirmation yet... |
| 14:31.14 | *** part/#openmoko zdanek (n=ds@fw2.autoguard.pl) |
| 14:31.59 | Ghiottone|work | Mek: it took a week before I received the approvation of a project |
| 14:33.20 | andylockran | Mek: considered hosting it on launchpad? |
| 14:34.04 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-129-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:34.13 | Mek | not really... and I prefer svn over bzr for scm :P |
| 14:34.26 | andylockran | fair dos |
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| 14:36.47 | Writchie | andylockran: you can probably use a dft on the pcm samples |
| 14:37.30 | SpeedEvil | andylockran: there is a page on the wiki |
| 14:37.37 | SpeedEvil | [[applications:guitar tuner]] ? |
| 14:38.10 | *** join/#openmoko evanpro_ (n=evanpro@modemcable038.13-80-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 14:39.53 | Mek | ah... I didn;t notice that yet... I also don't really understand what would be special about a Guitar tuner instead of just a tuner you can use for any instrument :P |
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| 14:44.37 | XorA | guitar tuner/any tuner should be fairly simple |
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| 15:02.08 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: ping |
| 15:02.12 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 15:02.31 | Writchie | do you know if there is a backup battery connected to the PCF50606? |
| 15:02.56 | SpeedEvil | see the dissasembly pictures |
| 15:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko impy_arg (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 15:03.27 | SpeedEvil | there is a little battery next to the display on the front |
| 15:04.27 | torpor | yo |
| 15:04.32 | torpor | hows things folks? any good news/ |
| 15:04.42 | SpeedEvil | Not especially, no. |
| 15:04.43 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@ip228.cab30.mus.starman.ee) |
| 15:04.58 | torpor | anyone using their neo's for real stuff yet? |
| 15:05.24 | SpeedEvil | Define real stuff. |
| 15:05.47 | torpor | i dunno, something other than coding for it. i.e. actually using it. |
| 15:05.48 | SpeedEvil | I'm using it for logging GPS tracks, and reading bluetooth GPS, for openstreetmap |
| 15:06.02 | torpor | i wouldn't mind being able to do that. any kind of working GPS setup yet? |
| 15:06.28 | SpeedEvil | The GPS binary is not freely distributable yet |
| 15:06.38 | mwester | Not for most; the new library is not yet working. |
| 15:06.40 | torpor | i have the binary. |
| 15:06.44 | SpeedEvil | I'm simply using it as a logging GPS though - not using it in any more complex way |
| 15:06.51 | torpor | but i am working on the latest openmoko builds, which i hear is incompatible, anyway .. |
| 15:06.57 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 15:07.05 | SpeedEvil | though you can run it in a chroot reportedly. |
| 15:07.11 | torpor | meh |
| 15:07.15 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/dogll I have and it works |
| 15:07.18 | torpor | anyone put the chroot in a pkg yet? |
| 15:07.22 | SpeedEvil | this is my script to run it |
| 15:08.44 | torpor | cool |
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| 15:13.50 | buz | can you compile qtopia apps against qt? |
| 15:13.58 | anrp | ... "cupcake" ? |
| 15:14.02 | buz | i.e. is qtopia a subset of qt? |
| 15:14.14 | SpeedEvil | anrp: binary gps - no reason |
| 15:14.42 | *** join/#openmoko jott (n=j@unaffiliated/jott) |
| 15:14.49 | *** join/#openmoko impy (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 15:18.46 | riot | did anyone else trip over that liberation-bb-problem? I solved it by modifying the recipe to use http instead (ssl needed for font-files?!) |
| 15:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko drWyrM (n=c88e3a13@207.250.49.24) |
| 15:21.11 | torarne | buz: yes and no, qtopia core is qt so it has the same API, qtopia platform/phone is like a window manage/application suite for phones and has no comliment in qt |
| 15:22.03 | buz | so to get qtopia to run on X11 rather than fb, you can't just recompile it against qt instead of qt/embedded? |
| 15:22.55 | torarne | actually i think there is a screen-device plugin for X, so you could run it on X |
| 15:23.01 | torarne | but i'm not positive |
| 15:23.26 | buz | but then you likely lose graphics acceleration |
| 15:23.28 | manyoso | buz: yes, you can get a qtopia-core application to run under X11 by just a recompile |
| 15:23.36 | buz | interesting |
| 15:23.49 | manyoso | buz: no, you can not get Qtopia(TM) that runs on the phone to run under X11 |
| 15:24.21 | manyoso | qtopia-core is just the Qt library built with some defines that makes it run outside X11 |
| 15:25.21 | manyoso | Qtopia(TM) is a kind of desktop environment for phones and a set of applications... this can not run under X11 because it has dependencies besides qtopia-core that would prevent it |
| 15:25.30 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 15:25.37 | buz | ok |
| 15:25.39 | buz | thx |
| 15:26.04 | hhf423 | torpor: I just flashed the qtopia and this looks like it can be used for "real stuff", like phone, sms etc |
| 15:26.13 | torarne | manyoso: what about QVFb? |
| 15:26.35 | manyoso | well, yes of course... you can run any qtopia app or Qtopia(TM) itself under qvfb |
| 15:26.49 | sandos | how come qtopia guys has managed to talk to the modem so well? |
| 15:26.56 | *** join/#openmoko burton__ (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-74-247.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:27.01 | sandos | Im not really understandsing all the low-level development byut still |
| 15:27.01 | manyoso | but that is just for testing, right :) |
| 15:27.06 | torarne | :) |
| 15:27.13 | sandos | I am impressed by their speed... or have they been hacking for asa long as openmoko guys? |
| 15:27.18 | torpor | hhf423: good to know |
| 15:27.21 | guaqua | sandos: the work is already done by openmoko ppl :) |
| 15:27.26 | sandos | heh ok |
| 15:27.32 | guaqua | that's what i'm guessing |
| 15:27.35 | sandos | so how come everybody says its not working ;) |
| 15:27.41 | torarne | sandos: they adopted an already existing modem plugin they had |
| 15:27.44 | torpor | sandos: the question is more why the open source'ing of phone stuff hasn't happened faster. the answer to both question is: hindrance/non-hindrance of license issues |
| 15:27.53 | sandos | torpor: aha ok, so I guess modems are airly alike then |
| 15:28.04 | sandos | s/airly/fairly/ |
| 15:28.17 | buz | modems generally respond to much the same commands |
| 15:28.20 | torpor | the qt guys make a living on the integration of closed systems/NDA-protected stuff into a common codebase. |
| 15:28.24 | manyoso | buz: the big recent news is that Qtopia(TM) was released under GPL... this wasn't always the case. qtopia-core however has been GPL for ... ever |
| 15:28.33 | buz | manyoso: yeah i know that |
| 15:28.34 | torpor | they have $$ incentive to firewall based on NDA's |
| 15:28.42 | manyoso | oh ok ;) |
| 15:28.47 | torpor | wherease the open guys can't access the docs without $$ so things go slower .. |
| 15:29.19 | torpor | qt have the $$$ backend to support having the docs. the open phone stuff has to either be 'bridged' between non-NDA/free, somehow or someone has to pay for it. |
| 15:29.38 | torpor | phone technology has *huge* IP minefields. |
| 15:30.19 | buz | which is why the modem is a blackbox, really |
| 15:30.20 | CM | Cool tablet pc: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=42470 |
| 15:30.28 | manyoso | torpor: i am positive the reason it took so long is TT management were concerned that GPL'ing certain parts would release it into the wild in certain parts of the world who do not care to respect the GPL license |
| 15:30.29 | buz | the rest of neo is pretty much a pda then ;) |
| 15:30.50 | buz | that part of the world wouldnt respect any other license, either |
| 15:30.58 | torpor | manyoso: they'd be stupid if thats what they thought since the rest of the world doesn't give a crap about standards. ;) |
| 15:31.12 | hhf423 | sandos: what is everybody saying is not working? OpenMoko? There are some pieces in OpenMoko which are broken, like gsmd, therefore you can not do reliably phonecalls or sms etc. The trolltech guys have their own "gsmd" etc, so phone and sms etc. works |
| 15:31.34 | torpor | what i want is GPS and Phone stuff 100% working. |
| 15:31.52 | buz | well duh, if gsmd wont work, people will say the phone is broken |
| 15:31.54 | buz | because it is |
| 15:31.57 | hhf423 | torpor: not this week |
| 15:31.58 | manyoso | torpor: thats the point. there are certain parts/companies who have no problem taking GPL tech... modifying it... selling it in proprietary way... and not releasing it back |
| 15:32.23 | manyoso | buz: you are right they wouldn't. then they wouldn't get the source either :) |
| 15:32.30 | hhf423 | buz: well, these people can now flash qtopia |
| 15:36.48 | hhf423 | ah, November 9th is the iphone day for Germany |
| 15:37.09 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (n=5512ea02@207.250.49.24) |
| 15:37.21 | Lynet | Shiny tech locking you up for 18 months.. |
| 15:37.21 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (n=5512ea02@207.250.49.24) |
| 15:37.57 | hhf423 | Lynet, yes if you're a noob who does not know about unlocking |
| 15:38.28 | guaqua | more like you still pay for it |
| 15:38.43 | hhf423 | pay for what? |
| 15:38.49 | torpor | i'm now flashing qtopia. ;) |
| 15:38.55 | guaqua | the locked crap |
| 15:39.11 | *** join/#openmoko one- (n=one@adsl-215-241-187.kymp.net) |
| 15:39.13 | guaqua | and most likely you pay for the contract every month |
| 15:39.38 | hhf423 | guaqua: what? why would I enter into a contract? I don't have to. I can buy the phone and unlock it |
| 15:39.54 | hhf423 | Sup3rkiddo: you need to do the alsa state restore |
| 15:39.55 | guaqua | so you can buy iphone without a contract? |
| 15:40.02 | jpcass | Sup3rkiddo: what problems with audio? |
| 15:40.08 | Sup3rkiddo | hhf423, did that |
| 15:40.11 | hhf423 | guaqua: of course. that has always been the case |
| 15:40.15 | CM | Same as ScaredyCat had I guess |
| 15:40.22 | guaqua | hhf423: no it hasn't |
| 15:40.30 | Sup3rkiddo | jpcass, no audio...the wiki has a solution but didnt work for me |
| 15:40.38 | guaqua | you can't buy an iphone in the states without signing up for the contract |
| 15:40.49 | hhf423 | guaqua: for sure. at day one, you went into an apple store an brought the phone. just the phone. no contract |
| 15:40.56 | guaqua | nope |
| 15:41.08 | hhf423 | guaqua: for activation, you needed to select a contract |
| 15:41.15 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 15:41.19 | guaqua | ahh |
| 15:41.21 | guaqua | interesting |
| 15:41.33 | jpcass | i notice the audio drivers are for a different kernel : 2.6.22.5 but qtopia runs on 2.6.21.6 (two dirs in /lib/modules) |
| 15:41.42 | guaqua | so basically if you don't want to hack the phone, you need a contract |
| 15:41.46 | CM | ScaredyCat: I did say "had" ;) |
| 15:42.03 | ScaredyCat | I'll let you off then ;) |
| 15:42.04 | hhf423 | guaqua: but you could leave the store without a contract. that was part of the whole concept. unboxing it yourself, not by a slimey phone seller :-) |
| 15:42.06 | ScaredyCat | my v8 ready? |
| 15:42.17 | guaqua | okay, that i didn't know :) |
| 15:42.49 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: so how did you solve that? |
| 15:42.59 | ScaredyCat | alsactl |
| 15:43.12 | ScaredyCat | loaded up the gsmhandset profile |
| 15:43.19 | hhf423 | alsactl restore -f /bla? |
| 15:43.36 | hhf423 | like in the wiki, ok |
| 15:43.37 | ScaredyCat | (although mickey|openexpo suggested stereo one may be better) |
| 15:43.40 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 15:43.44 | CM | ScaredyCat: Nope, I swapped to the 1.6l old S40.. :P |
| 15:44.16 | hhf423 | hmmm, qtopia seems to have the old kernel which can not talk usb to windows |
| 15:44.29 | hhf423 | CM: does it blend? |
| 15:44.39 | ScaredyCat | lol - Coneheads! |
| 15:44.57 | CM | This is unacceptable! |
| 15:45.06 | ScaredyCat | hhf423: if you look at /etc/init.d/alsa-state you'll see it tires to load form /etc/ |
| 15:45.23 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 15:45.53 | roh | LarstiQ follow the entry in the wiki and nm will ignore the if |
| 15:45.58 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: so fixing it there will fixit even for reboots? |
| 15:46.11 | roh | LarstiQ the entry for /etc/network/interfaces |
| 15:46.11 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: will you put that into the wiki? |
| 15:46.29 | torpor | wow qtopia looks great. |
| 15:46.30 | ScaredyCat | if you fix the paths in alsa-state it works fine on reboot |
| 15:46.42 | LarstiQ | roh: I thought I did that, but I'll check again |
| 15:46.42 | torpor | seems like the qtopia release would be nice to use.. |
| 15:47.13 | hhf423 | did someone try the qtopia with the latest kernel? |
| 15:47.25 | roh | bbl |
| 15:47.55 | *** join/#openmoko derFrank_ (n=derFrank@Pa4e4.p.pppool.de) |
| 15:47.59 | *** part/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@88-96-30-67.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 15:48.12 | ScaredyCat | hhf423: just building now |
| 15:49.14 | andylockran | hhf423: where's the wiki direction for enabling audio? |
| 15:49.21 | torpor | hey bluetooth works nice in qtopia.. |
| 15:49.31 | ScaredyCat | sidk! |
| 15:49.33 | ScaredyCat | disk |
| 15:49.50 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:50.35 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: so more nonessentials will have to go... |
| 15:50.44 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 15:51.02 | hhf423 | hmm, qtopia boots fine with the new kernel |
| 15:52.24 | hhf423 | heh, cool. and volia, it talks to windows |
| 15:52.45 | ScaredyCat | CM : I find you unacceptable! |
| 15:52.57 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:53.10 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe |
| 15:53.42 | CM | ScaredyCat: Maybe some of this wine would make you feel better? http://uk.techcrunch.com/2007/09/17/microsoft-approves-blue-monster-wine/ |
| 15:54.01 | CM | "Change the world or go home" |
| 15:54.11 | jpcass | anyone get the SIP client working on the neo/qtopia? |
| 15:54.38 | ScaredyCat | CM: I bet it's pure Bill Gates piss |
| 15:54.56 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A57BF3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:55.11 | CM | Hehe.. Go home sounds nice. :) |
| 15:55.15 | ScaredyCat | jpcass: I thought you did |
| 15:55.22 | ScaredyCat | or did you have routing issues? |
| 15:55.39 | torpor | anyone know what the bluetooth key is in qtopia? |
| 15:55.40 | jpcass | no, it was trying to connect to my asterisk but didnt work and I didnt have time yet to look at it... |
| 15:55.52 | ScaredyCat | looking at the qtopia stuff, these appears to be an iax client too |
| 15:56.04 | jpcass | yes i think routing problems, I guess my machine was doing NAT from 192.168.0 to 192.168.1 where asterisk is... |
| 15:56.06 | ScaredyCat | torpor: BlueZ |
| 15:56.49 | jpcass | funny enough asterisk was giving a log message when I had the wrong name in the setup , but nothing when I had the correct name (=sip.conf) |
| 15:57.02 | ScaredyCat | hehe |
| 15:57.08 | jpcass | so something was getting through, but only the error case was being reported... |
| 15:57.29 | ScaredyCat | firewalling on pc? |
| 15:57.38 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 |
| 15:57.49 | torpor | thats the key right? |
| 15:57.50 | hhf423 | andylockran: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 |
| 15:57.51 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:58.13 | ScaredyCat | torpor: yes iirc, you can look at hcid.conf to be sure |
| 15:58.21 | ScaredyCat | hhf423: ? |
| 15:58.23 | torpor | can't do that, don't have net connection to the phone yet. |
| 15:58.33 | torpor | i guess the default ip for qtopia is the same for openmoko? |
| 15:58.37 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@a81-84-74-164.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 15:58.43 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 15:58.44 | jpcass | maybe firewall...just using the setting in the wiki ...I'll check |
| 15:59.11 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: ahh, it tries to load from /etc, but the stuff is in /etc/alsa |
| 15:59.32 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 15:59.38 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 15:59.45 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: thats where it used to be with the "old" kernel. with the "new" kernel, the state stuff is in /etc, not /etc/alsa |
| 15:59.55 | ScaredyCat | k. |
| 15:59.59 | hhf423 | so I wonder if they buldled the wrong kernel with it |
| 16:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-136-182.37-151.net24.it) |
| 16:00.17 | ScaredyCat | I'm just building it now, so we'll see if that fixes it.. |
| 16:00.30 | berkus | any shipment news? |
| 16:00.37 | ScaredyCat | you know the cool thing is... |
| 16:00.54 | mwester | yes? |
| 16:00.55 | hhf423 | hmm? |
| 16:00.59 | ScaredyCat | you bitbake the qtopia edition |
| 16:01.10 | ScaredyCat | so you can build both :) |
| 16:01.11 | torpor | awesome |
| 16:01.14 | jpcass | has someone made recipes? |
| 16:01.20 | torpor | bluetooth is nice. |
| 16:01.33 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 16:01.49 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 16:02.29 | hhf423 | oh |
| 16:02.45 | hhf423 | oh, alsactl tells me "no soundcards found" |
| 16:03.21 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: forget that, the state files are still in /etc/alsa, I must be mixing things up |
| 16:04.01 | torpor | man i hope openmoko catches u with qtopia soon .. |
| 16:04.37 | hhf423 | why does alsactl not find a soundcard? |
| 16:05.03 | jpcass | lsmod | grep snd |
| 16:05.11 | berkus | is it a qtopia4 build for neo? |
| 16:05.25 | hhf423 | jpcass: nothing there |
| 16:05.28 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF161.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:05.30 | hhf423 | berkus: yes |
| 16:05.39 | hhf423 | berkus: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973 |
| 16:05.41 | berkus | gooood |
| 16:05.45 | jpcass | modprobe snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753 (or something!) |
| 16:05.48 | berkus | i've been there thanks ) |
| 16:05.49 | LarstiQ | roh: thanks, my complaint was in the other direction, but with the udev fix I've got a setup I'm happy enough with |
| 16:06.13 | jpcass | hhf423: have you been changing kernel version? |
| 16:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers_ (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 16:06.34 | hhf423 | jpcass: yes, thats probably it |
| 16:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:06.52 | jpcass | doh |
| 16:07.13 | hhf423 | I wanted the new kernel which speaks to windows |
| 16:08.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation_HOWTO/de]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Berlin]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Milan]] [[Wish_List]] [[Python]] |
| 16:10.10 | ScaredyCat | jpcass: get qtopia-opensource-4.3.0 and look in the devices/ficgta01 dir |
| 16:11.07 | jpcass | scaredycat: for what? |
| 16:11.26 | jpcass | scaredycat: my brain is already full trying to understand openembedded / openmoko! |
| 16:11.47 | anrp | my brain was full before i started |
| 16:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A77bd.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 16:11.52 | jpcass | and I'm going to have to learn about firewalling to get the voip client working.... |
| 16:11.58 | *** join/#openmoko Syk1 (n=oem@c-71-202-249-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:12.15 | hhf423_w | voip client, droool |
| 16:12.34 | jpcass | scaredycat: anyway, whats in there? |
| 16:13.07 | ScaredyCat | .bb recipies |
| 16:13.30 | *** part/#openmoko drWyrM (n=c88e3a13@207.250.49.24) |
| 16:13.43 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07CB14.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:13.45 | jpcass | ok, that's cool. |
| 16:13.55 | ScaredyCat | anrp: start swapping to paper ;) |
| 16:13.55 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@cpe-071-077-055-135.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:16.53 | hhf423 | ok, now calls work with voice etc. |
| 16:16.53 | hhf423 | good stuff |
| 16:16.55 | jpcass | i like that: voice, etc. |
| 16:17.21 | hhf423 | jpcass: and noises, and music :-) |
| 16:17.45 | ScaredyCat | noises? |
| 16:17.47 | ScaredyCat | music? |
| 16:17.56 | jpcass | did you find a music player on there? i've installed mpd but no gui client... |
| 16:18.01 | ScaredyCat | you're not dialing sex lines are you? |
| 16:18.39 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3013 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (9 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 16:18.39 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Makefile.am: |
| 16:18.39 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * autogen.sh: |
| 16:18.39 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 16:18.39 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * doc/reference/Makefile.am: |
| 16:18.41 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * doc/reference/version.xml.in |
| 16:18.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Add gtk-doc support |
| 16:19.28 | hhf423 | the keyboad they have is bloody brilliant |
| 16:19.59 | ScaredyCat | have you found the left right up down strokes? |
| 16:20.03 | hhf423 | this "slide to get cpas, numbers, special chars" |
| 16:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko SBKch (n=SBKch@088156224081.sta.vectranet.pl) |
| 16:20.56 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3014 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/libmokoui/moko-finger-scroll.c: * Actually commit new documentation |
| 16:21.33 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3015 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): |
| 16:21.33 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.c: |
| 16:21.33 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-hint-entry.h: |
| 16:21.33 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Relicense under LGPL |
| 16:21.41 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@129.24.27.25) |
| 16:21.42 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: thats dard cool, is it? |
| 16:21.54 | jpcass | yes, we like that a lot |
| 16:21.57 | ScaredyCat | yes, it works pretty well |
| 16:22.09 | ScaredyCat | have you tries the click-and-hold ? |
| 16:22.10 | jpcass | still not very usable with finger thought |
| 16:22.13 | ScaredyCat | tried |
| 16:22.15 | jpcass | -t |
| 16:22.16 | hhf423 | I would never have guessed that I'd be happy to see a call history |
| 16:22.23 | jpcass | with the circle popup? |
| 16:22.27 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 16:22.36 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: yeah, that zoom stuff is cool |
| 16:22.57 | jpcass | i was reading a research paper about that type of popup and was thinking of implementing for moko ;-) |
| 16:23.09 | ScaredyCat | hehhe |
| 16:23.31 | jpcass | of course it can all be done *better* ... |
| 16:23.33 | ScaredyCat | thees a click and hold thing in other places too... seems to act like a double click |
| 16:24.06 | jpcass | ... but not until tomorrow (at the earliest) ... bye! |
| 16:24.28 | ScaredyCat | bye |
| 16:25.39 | hhf423 | bye |
| 16:25.47 | hhf423 | this is quite well made |
| 16:25.55 | hhf423 | is this 4.3 already or still 4.2 |
| 16:28.54 | hhf423 | this is totally usable |
| 16:29.00 | hhf423 | only gsm is missing |
| 16:29.05 | ScaredyCat | gsm? |
| 16:29.11 | ScaredyCat | it works |
| 16:29.14 | hhf423 | gps, sorry |
| 16:29.27 | ScaredyCat | ahh yes, but that's anoter story... |
| 16:29.37 | ScaredyCat | any news on the licencing? |
| 16:29.47 | hhf423 | yaw, one more thing where there is no news |
| 16:30.32 | bedboi | oh, so we can steal the gsm part? |
| 16:30.47 | hhf423 | how does one make screenshots with qtopia? |
| 16:30.53 | ScaredyCat | steal? it's gpl |
| 16:31.07 | ScaredyCat | hhf423: cat /dev/fb0 >myfile.raw |
| 16:31.28 | hhf423 | ah, thanks |
| 16:31.36 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: affectionate usage of the verb steal :) |
| 16:31.44 | CM | But gsmd is lgpl isn't it? |
| 16:31.51 | bedboi | ScaredyCat: steal, in the good sense. |
| 16:32.36 | ScaredyCat | the problem is people like the guy from Nokia use it when talking about gpl to people who don;t understand... |
| 16:32.52 | ScaredyCat | which is why I like to point out that it's not eally stealing.. |
| 16:33.05 | CM | ScaredyCat: You and SpeedEvil are most popular it seems.. That's totaly odd ;) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0 |
| 16:33.22 | ScaredyCat | not odd, I'm really nice :) |
| 16:33.32 | CM | Hehe |
| 16:33.54 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-63-152.44-151.net24.it) |
| 16:33.59 | ScaredyCat | CM: but that list might not even get seen anyway... so.. well... you know... |
| 16:34.19 | ScaredyCat | chickens.state != hatched |
| 16:34.34 | CM | ScaredyCat: What do you mean not seen? Read the quotes from mickey|zzZZzz on that wiki page? |
| 16:34.40 | hhf423 | oh, there is a GPE gui for the Neo as well? |
| 16:34.59 | CM | Poky? |
| 16:35.04 | hhf423 | and they can make phone calls!? |
| 16:35.22 | hhf423 | http://linuxtogo.org/~florian/index.php?path=gpepe%2Ffic-gta01/ |
| 16:35.45 | LarstiQ | hhf423: interesting |
| 16:35.54 | ScaredyCat | Pooky pooky |
| 16:36.05 | hhf423 | LarstiQ: oh yes |
| 16:37.13 | u_l-lap | I'm liking Qt 4 more than I did 2 (the last version I used) |
| 16:37.42 | u_l-lap | I can use smoke to make all of Qt available to guile *and* write a QtScript implementation to enable embedding guile in any application |
| 16:37.54 | u_l-lap | and it can coexist transparantly with the ecmascript engine |
| 16:38.30 | u_l-lap | I wish there were a GtkScript engine system |
| 16:38.44 | u_l-lap | then guile, python, ... could all coexist peacefully |
| 16:39.30 | hhf423 | that makes three environment to choose from |
| 16:39.45 | hhf423 | now we just want to have the JavaFX phone rootfs as well |
| 16:39.53 | hhf423 | and gps working |
| 16:39.55 | u_l-lap | the joys of an open phone |
| 16:40.30 | hhf423 | exactly |
| 16:41.03 | CM | What about Ubuntu Mobile? :) |
| 16:41.05 | ScaredyCat | put them all on and sd card tripple boot ;) |
| 16:41.20 | ScaredyCat | CM: I would, but it's brown :P |
| 16:41.21 | hhf423 | then I can decide each morning what kind of a person I want to be. A GTK person, a QT person, a GPE person or a JAVA person or whatever |
| 16:41.43 | DukeOfURL | Fortrn |
| 16:41.43 | hhf423 | yeah, my 4GB SD is in the mail soon I hope |
| 16:41.49 | DukeOfURL | Fortran |
| 16:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 16:42.00 | ScaredyCat | 4gb ones working ok? |
| 16:42.04 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve11 (n=fradeve@host90-127-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:42.15 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: yes, at least one reportedly ok |
| 16:42.38 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: GOD is REAL unless declared INTEGER... |
| 16:42.39 | Sup3rkiddo | ...anyone working to get e17 on neo :P |
| 16:42.48 | ScaredyCat | I presume that;s the one you ordered then hhf423 ;) |
| 16:42.51 | DukeOfURL | rofl |
| 16:43.04 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: raster said he wanted to, but was too busy |
| 16:43.10 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: yes, a 4GB sandisk sdhc |
| 16:43.18 | ScaredyCat | cool |
| 16:43.19 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: stefan schmidt reported a working one |
| 16:43.21 | hozer | what does GPE look like? |
| 16:43.30 | hhf423 | hozer, waitasec |
| 16:43.31 | torpor | okay, qtopia is very impresive. |
| 16:43.38 | torpor | looks like it could all be being done with openmoko too .. |
| 16:43.44 | ScaredyCat | hehe, 16gb ftw! |
| 16:43.46 | hhf423 | hozer: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/724a5ed7ecd6e09bef7701aac9fe9351.png |
| 16:43.54 | CM | DukeOfURL: You noticed that gcc fortran support was added to the cross compiler in oe today? |
| 16:44.03 | fgau | Sup3rkiddo:http://gstaedtner.net/e17_on_Neo.avi |
| 16:44.08 | CM | Octave on the neo! |
| 16:44.37 | hozer | I bet it runs faster than the first machine GAMESS was compiled for |
| 16:45.10 | Sup3rkiddo | i saw a e widget in the neo, in one of the progress bars, had that characteristic golden colour, or i was on crack that time |
| 16:45.14 | torpor | sweet. |
| 16:45.53 | hhf423 | boot! |
| 16:46.01 | paulproteus | fgau, Dude, that's shocking and appealing. |
| 16:46.18 | paulproteus | E17 uses its own UI toolkit I ugess? |
| 16:46.28 | paulproteus | Is there a GTK source-compatibility shiim for it? |
| 16:46.29 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 16:46.31 | fgau | paulproteus: thomasg has build e17 |
| 16:46.32 | paulproteus | Sup3rkiddo, Just stream it! |
| 16:46.33 | DukeOfURL | CM: yes, I have to fetch gcc-cross because it wouldn't compile. why fortran? |
| 16:46.35 | paulproteus | mplayer $url |
| 16:46.44 | ScaredyCat | oops - wrong x |
| 16:46.53 | thomasg | paulproteus: yes, e17 uses the efl (enlightenment foundation libraries) |
| 16:46.53 | Sup3rkiddo | paulproteus, yup, etk, ewl, you could use enhance + glade too |
| 16:47.09 | thomasg | e17 itself doesn't use etk or ewl, it uses edje |
| 16:47.18 | paulproteus | Sup3rkiddo, Awesome, it'd be really cool if E17 got some use in OpenMokoland. (-: |
| 16:47.33 | thomasg | paulproteus: http://gstaedtner.net/e17_on_Neo.avi |
| 16:47.57 | Sup3rkiddo | paulproteus, raster hangs around here, maybe he has some plan, apps based on clutter would look sweet too... |
| 16:48.01 | paulproteus | Is that the same file? |
| 16:48.03 | torpor | gah! sick of this!! |
| 16:48.04 | torpor | ERROR: '/home/j/hak/openmoko/openembedded/packages/libsdl/libsdl-net_1.2.7.bb' failed |
| 16:48.29 | ScaredyCat | comment it out of the feed torpor |
| 16:48.32 | Sup3rkiddo | torpor, care to give me the id you get, so that i might expect it sometime |
| 16:48.34 | fgau | paulproteus: yep |
| 16:48.37 | ScaredyCat | unless you need it |
| 16:49.14 | *** join/#openmoko impulse (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:49.33 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 16:49.55 | hhf423 | ok |
| 16:50.02 | hhf423 | gpe is totally unusable |
| 16:50.12 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 16:50.14 | ScaredyCat | why ? |
| 16:50.34 | ScaredyCat | not seing sim ? |
| 16:50.39 | ScaredyCat | seeing |
| 16:50.47 | hhf423 | for one thing, yes |
| 16:51.00 | hhf423 | and does not pop up a keyboard |
| 16:51.21 | hhf423 | and so on. sort of less usable than the first om version I used |
| 16:51.31 | CM | Sup3rkiddo, paulproteus mickey|zzZZzz is also involved with enlightment, particularly efl |
| 16:51.36 | torpor | Sup3rkiddo: sorry, id? |
| 16:52.22 | Sup3rkiddo | CM, yeah..mickey told me once he is "looking" into other options.. |
| 16:52.51 | paulproteus | CM, Very cool. The source compatibility I think would be very important. |
| 16:53.01 | *** join/#openmoko burton` (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-96-61.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:53.03 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/projects/efl/ |
| 16:53.58 | Sup3rkiddo | btw guys, a python JIT for neo, any comments?...i am looking at psyco or pypy...am aware of the memory it requires but is it worth it? |
| 16:55.03 | SpeedEvil | Well - try it! |
| 16:55.14 | paulproteus | psyco won't work on non-x86 from what I recall. |
| 16:55.15 | SpeedEvil | worst case it can be an app that goes onto the media card |
| 16:55.34 | Sup3rkiddo | paulproteus, yeah it doesnt...am a very ambitious person;;P |
| 16:55.48 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 16:56.06 | ScaredyCat | it'll have to go on there SpeedEvil - basic python req's seem to be quite large in general |
| 16:56.08 | Sup3rkiddo | :P |
| 16:56.09 | paulproteus | Sup3rkiddo, I think pypy is the way to go. |
| 16:56.29 | LarstiQ | Sup3rkiddo: if you're very ambitios, certainly check out pypy. |
| 16:56.31 | Sup3rkiddo | paulproteus, yeah, the psyco creator told the same thing... |
| 16:56.57 | LarstiQ | Sup3rkiddo: especially since armin is working on pypy instead of psyco nowadays |
| 16:57.11 | Sup3rkiddo | but this of course needs more experienced guys.....anyone willing to to do stuff? |
| 16:57.19 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 16:57.34 | ScaredyCat | wtf - pypy is a python interpreter for python ... |
| 16:57.40 | Sup3rkiddo | LarstiQ, right...i really am curious about memory leaks if any, when python is run |
| 16:57.44 | paulproteus | http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/release-1.0.0.html fwiw |
| 16:57.46 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: and much more |
| 16:58.13 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: like, a jit-compiler generator |
| 16:58.13 | Sup3rkiddo | ScaredyCat, nokia did that for symbian OS...their python interpreter is written in python, and with a few dlls, they did it! |
| 16:58.32 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: which makes for the faster prolog interpreter I know :) |
| 16:58.39 | LarstiQ | fastest even |
| 16:58.39 | ScaredyCat | roflmao |
| 16:58.41 | Sup3rkiddo | hege |
| 16:58.44 | Sup3rkiddo | -hehe |
| 16:58.52 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D80B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:59.03 | ScaredyCat | you're all mad |
| 16:59.06 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 16:59.19 | *** join/#openmoko impy (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:59.31 | Sup3rkiddo | lol.. |
| 17:00.12 | Sup3rkiddo | maybe i will write a bitbake for it and see how it goes...:P |
| 17:00.15 | ScaredyCat | how the hell do you play that on the neo |
| 17:00.16 | Sup3rkiddo | recipe |
| 17:00.20 | LarstiQ | ooh, qtopia certainly looks spiffy |
| 17:00.44 | Sup3rkiddo | ScaredyCat, OnScreen keyboard or voice inputs :P |
| 17:00.52 | manyoso | what is bitbake? |
| 17:00.54 | manyoso | bakefiles? |
| 17:00.58 | ScaredyCat | cakes |
| 17:01.05 | ScaredyCat | mmmmm cake |
| 17:01.13 | Sup3rkiddo | er..sorry recipes |
| 17:01.32 | *** join/#openmoko RP (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net) |
| 17:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 17:02.58 | torpor | ScaredyCat: see i want libsdl-net, thats a nuisance for me .. |
| 17:03.26 | ScaredyCat | ahh k... yes |
| 17:03.30 | ScaredyCat | it would be a pain |
| 17:04.13 | torpor | but commenting it out of the feed is good enough for now .. thx. |
| 17:05.24 | Sup3rkiddo | is the guitar pick hidden, my kit did not arrive with it..=( |
| 17:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 17:07.13 | *** join/#openmoko jp (n=jp@157.130.250.238) |
| 17:09.08 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-75-193.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 17:09.59 | torpor | Sup3rkiddo: mine was tucked into the foam |
| 17:10.36 | Sup3rkiddo | torpor, will search it, apparently my finger nail is no match |
| 17:11.07 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 17:11.43 | torpor | by now i can open the neo case by nail .. |
| 17:12.15 | SpeedEvil | partially clench your fist |
| 17:12.30 | SpeedEvil | place the heel of your hand in the middle of the back of the case |
| 17:12.44 | SpeedEvil | place your fingernail in the hole at the place |
| 17:13.00 | SpeedEvil | hold your hand and wrist rigid. |
| 17:13.13 | SpeedEvil | now, piviot the arm down parallel with the case |
| 17:13.19 | SpeedEvil | this pops it out gently |
| 17:13.25 | bkruse | When the gui dev docs say that we should not make any of the widgets/boxes/etc a static size because of resolution, are their going to be more gtk wrappers released or developed on once we start growing? |
| 17:14.02 | bkruse | SpeedEvil never fails |
| 17:14.12 | bkruse | believe what he says, for fact, thats what I do, and it works great! :] |
| 17:15.17 | *** join/#openmoko [TK]D-Fender (n=joe@MTRLPQ02-1177745839.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:15.30 | manyoso | GTA01 doesn't have wifi, but GTA02 does... correct? |
| 17:15.31 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 17:16.10 | *** join/#openmoko csnellman (n=csnellma@ext-gw.dev.sf.yav4.com) |
| 17:16.21 | CM | manyoso: Yes |
| 17:16.26 | guaqua | counter |
| 17:16.26 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1810;252) |
| 17:16.44 | *** join/#openmoko irdakabel (n=simon@zux166-154.adsl.green.ch) |
| 17:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-c494fa4324b9187e) |
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| 17:28.56 | notuniq | i've tried five different sim cards and using gsm manually and with libgsmd-tool + gsmd and i can't get it working. i can't figure out how to pin down the problem, i keep getting CME errors 10 and 32 (SIM not inserted) and (Network not allowed, emergency calls only) |
| 17:29.02 | notuniq | any hints? |
| 17:29.54 | DukeOfURL | I'm getting "Verifying checksum ... Bad Data CRC" on boot. I've reflashed several times but the problem persists. How do I get out of this? |
| 17:29.56 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 17:33.27 | ScaredyCat | get theboot menu up... |
| 17:33.36 | ScaredyCat | then select 'Factory Rest' |
| 17:33.41 | ScaredyCat | then select 'Factory Reset' |
| 17:33.49 | ScaredyCat | tht should boot for you |
| 17:35.09 | DukeOfURL | ScaredyCat: That doesn't work. What does Factory Reset do, anyhow? |
| 17:35.10 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@88-149-143-13.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 17:36.10 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 17:36.16 | Aria | hello |
| 17:36.20 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host174-56-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:36.35 | andylockran | hey |
| 17:39.28 | cw666 | notuniq: please post your /tmp/gsm.log somewhere |
| 17:40.12 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:41.26 | notuniq | okay, i really should have already done that |
| 17:42.27 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 17:42.31 | *** part/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@adsl-212-16-103-6.taloyhtioverkot.fi) |
| 17:42.49 | Ghiottone | why I get lots of MMC CMD Timeout when I do mmcinit? it does not seem to work after that |
| 17:43.03 | dtx | So is the Neo1973 a reliable phone with Qtopia on it? |
| 17:43.27 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 17:43.37 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 17:43.48 | dtx | reliable as in can place and receive calls with few problems |
| 17:43.58 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:43.58 | dtx | or in that regard does it have the same problems as OpenMoko |
| 17:45.07 | notuniq | http://pastebin.com/m67ca02e7 |
| 17:45.22 | notuniq | that's just the output from typing O and L in libgsmd-tool |
| 17:45.36 | *** part/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 17:45.58 | notuniq | i get back "EVENT: Netreg registration denied" and then an event saying the Signal quality |
| 17:47.21 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
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| 17:49.33 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers_ (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 17:50.38 | jseghers_ | I've got a puzzling problem... I build a local overlay with a couple of packages of my own, and pulling in a couple of extra packages. This has been working for several weeks now. |
| 17:50.46 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178203138.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:51.31 | jseghers_ | Last night I did a complete rebuild. It's clear that my image .bb file is the one being read, because the rootfs task is looking for the packages I specify |
| 17:51.41 | jseghers_ | But they are not being built. |
| 17:52.14 | jseghers_ | Did something change in the underlying BB system that changed how it determined what needs to be built? |
| 17:52.39 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
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| 17:54.37 | DukeOfURL | could someone take a look at this: http://pastebin.org/2837 |
| 17:55.14 | DukeOfURL | reading NAND page failed--does this mean NAND hardware is bad? |
| 17:58.36 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF161.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:00.12 | jseghers_ | hmmm... before I only needed to specify the packages in PACKAGE_INSTALL, now they need to also be added to DEPENDS |
| 18:00.27 | roh | DukeOfURL dunno exactly... tried resetting the partitions? |
| 18:01.03 | roh | DukeOfURL meaning, doing the dynpart stuff |
| 18:02.24 | DukeOfURL | roh: I see the dynpart command in uboot. How do I use it? |
| 18:03.12 | roh | DukeOfURL http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks explains it a bit |
| 18:03.31 | roh | it basicaally calculates the partitions around the badblocks |
| 18:04.31 | roh | means dynpart <ret> dynenv set u-boot_env<ret> saveenv<ret>.. i think |
| 18:05.44 | roh | DukeOfURL do you have a debugboard? |
| 18:08.09 | DukeOfURL | roh: yes, but I haven't unpacked it |
| 18:08.27 | DukeOfURL | still in the lunchbox |
| 18:09.17 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:ChrisLord]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[Talk:Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Qtopia_on_Neo_1973]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/de]] [[User:Hhf423]] [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Translation_HOWTO/de]] |
| 18:09.28 | jseghers_ | OK... I'm wrong... what changed, that I didn't notice, is that in openmoko-devel-image, PACKAGE_INSTALL has been replaced by IMAGE_INSTALL |
| 18:11.38 | roh | DukeOfURL just in case.. it could well be that the uboot comes up in serial as default and does not bring up acm.. so you would need it to config it again (initially done while devirginating) |
| 18:12.15 | *** part/#openmoko [TK]D-Fender (n=joe@MTRLPQ02-1177745839.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:13.58 | jseghers_ | anyone else having problems building uicmoc3-native? |
| 18:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-163-156.44-151.net24.it) |
| 18:16.00 | jseghers_ | It seems to be trying to copy staging/i686-linux/share/qmake/linux-oe-g++/* which doesn't exist. |
| 18:17.00 | anrp | just mkdir/touch it |
| 18:17.01 | anrp | >.> |
| 18:17.07 | anrp | ...yeah, that's probably not a real solution |
| 18:18.05 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@212.2.174.106) |
| 18:20.21 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@OTWAON23-1178069029.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:22.28 | mwester | There was another toolchain glitch over the past 18 hours or so; a change made to the gcc build process which was backed out. Others have already reported that if you synced and started to build during that time window, you may need to delete the entire build/tmp structure and start over. |
| 18:22.30 | Ghiottone | I have a problem with the SD card from uboot http://pastebin.org/2839 |
| 18:22.36 | Ghiottone | anyone can help me? |
| 18:23.14 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@56.84-48-193.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:23.34 | anrp | it can't talk to the card |
| 18:23.36 | jseghers_ | mwester: that's probably what bit me... I started a rebuild about 8pm (Pacific) last night |
| 18:23.37 | anrp | is it in? does it work? |
| 18:23.44 | anrp | try it in a card reader |
| 18:24.00 | Ghiottone | yes it works and it is in. |
| 18:24.01 | DukeOfURL | mwester: I just did this: 'bitbake gcc-cross -c rebuild' and it built ok |
| 18:24.02 | anrp | also, the card holder on gta01bv4 is pretty delicate and hard to lock |
| 18:24.04 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-152-202-24.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:24.04 | anrp | so be careful... |
| 18:24.14 | anrp | you have the debug board hooked up? |
| 18:24.16 | Ghiottone | accessed from the phone and both a card reader yesterday |
| 18:24.20 | Ghiottone | anrp, no |
| 18:24.22 | mwester | "pretty delicate" is a nice way to put it... |
| 18:24.33 | Ghiottone | anrp, I'm connected via usb to uboot |
| 18:24.35 | Ghiottone | lol |
| 18:24.35 | anrp | inded |
| 18:24.37 | anrp | *e |
| 18:24.51 | nbd | 1/wi30 |
| 18:24.52 | nbd | oops |
| 18:25.24 | mwester | "Once installed, leave it alone" is the way I'd phrase it actually! Most definitely *not* something that you would remove daily to update your MP3 collection via a card reader, for example... |
| 18:25.24 | Ghiottone | I'm now booting to check it sd still works to double check it |
| 18:25.51 | anrp | that's how i'd treat it |
| 18:25.54 | Ghiottone | I did it cause I wanted to fdisk it |
| 18:25.57 | anrp | microsd has huge economies of scale |
| 18:26.00 | torpor | mwester: what are the symptomos of the gcc bug? |
| 18:26.01 | Ghiottone | now there are two partitions |
| 18:26.11 | anrp | so much so that it's probably cheaper to stick in a microsd slot than use dedicated flash chips |
| 18:26.17 | torpor | i am part-way through attempting a build i started around 6pm tonight .. |
| 18:28.43 | Ghiottone | long live to double check habit! |
| 18:28.47 | DukeOfURL | roh: I still have NAND read failure at x148200 |
| 18:28.49 | ScaredyCat | NOTE: package openmoko-qtopia-image-1.0: completed |
| 18:30.05 | torpor | ScaredyCat: that is nice! |
| 18:30.54 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 18:31.19 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 18:31.35 | ScaredyCat | I'd better test it :) |
| 18:32.45 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: thats exciting |
| 18:33.25 | roh | DukeOfURL hm.. bad.. can you file a bug in bugzilla? |
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| 18:37.49 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-214-13.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 18:38.33 | Elrond | BTW: Does backup-your-neo via dfu work? |
| 18:39.04 | DukeOfURL | roh: should I try the devirginator first? |
| 18:39.26 | cjb_ie | that sounds like a fun job |
| 18:39.34 | roh | DukeOfURL you can, it should not make it worse |
| 18:39.39 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@host187-143-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 18:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (i=Administ@dsl-245-147-147.telkomadsl.co.za) |
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| 18:56.13 | ScaredyCat | anyone speak German ? |
| 18:56.58 | pH5 | ScaredyCat: see #neo1973-germany |
| 18:57.24 | jseghers_ | ScaredyCat: Google or babelfish can translate if you need to translate a page |
| 18:57.30 | ScaredyCat | it;s not really a neo/openmoko issue |
| 18:57.56 | ScaredyCat | I need to find out how to ;unlock' my SEG 5300 vcr |
| 18:58.38 | ScaredyCat | it has a led image of a key .. and it wont respond to the remote (or unplugging) |
| 18:59.07 | ScaredyCat | so I need to search in German fo r 'how to unlock my SEG 5300' :) |
| 18:59.31 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: that happened to me once... i went away for the weekend, my cats walked on the remote and locked the VCR |
| 18:59.47 | ScaredyCat | SEG one? |
| 18:59.52 | cjb_ie | no, mitsubishi |
| 18:59.59 | cjb_ie | never heard of SEG |
| 19:00.05 | ScaredyCat | wife just put a pizza box on the remote... locked the vcr |
| 19:00.19 | cjb_ie | samsung electronik gruppe ors? |
| 19:00.43 | cjb_ie | iirc it was a very long press on a couple of keys on the remote to unlock it again |
| 19:01.07 | jseghers_ | ScaredyCat: Google says: wie man mein SEG 5300 entriegelt |
| 19:03.38 | cjb_ie | i will not buy this VCR, it is scratched! |
| 19:04.04 | mwester | We could have some fun with ScaredyCat :) |
| 19:04.45 | DukeOfURL | does the remote have a USB port? :-) |
| 19:05.36 | mwester | it might be bluetooth? |
| 19:06.13 | DukeOfURL | is there a factory reset pinhole? Remove batteries? |
| 19:07.40 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/17157/SEG_VCR3xxx%20series.html looks promising |
| 19:08.10 | ScaredyCat | yeah I have those... it tells me everything except that :/ |
| 19:08.15 | roh | ScaredyCat http://195.160.173.6/incoming/SEG%20VCR%20x3%20Series.pdf |
| 19:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko impy (n=tyu@40.43-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:09.16 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 19:09.18 | roh | ScaredyCat but it tells that its a daewoo in reality ;_) |
| 19:09.28 | ScaredyCat | yeah... |
| 19:09.34 | Elrond | Is this normal for dfu upload? http://en.pastebin.ca/703663 |
| 19:09.47 | ScaredyCat | I think that's what I have already... tech doc, not user :( |
| 19:15.02 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178203138.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:15.17 | roh | Elrond nope.. should not happen |
| 19:15.32 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3016 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog autogen.sh): * autogen.sh: Run gtkdocize first |
| 19:15.50 | bedboi | my neo is in kansas |
| 19:15.53 | Elrond | roh - Note "upload" (that's device to host). |
| 19:15.59 | Elrond | roh - Any hints? |
| 19:17.16 | Ghiottone | Elrond, are you root? |
| 19:17.28 | Elrond | Ghiottone - Yes. |
| 19:17.44 | Ghiottone | tried more than once? |
| 19:17.58 | Elrond | I can retry, of course. |
| 19:18.29 | Marcel_M | ScaredyCat: found this for a SEG DVD player: Universal-Passwort: 3308 here http://www.fernseh-maul.de/html/codeliste_kindersicherung_dvd.html there is a link to a side for videoplayers too but no SEG |
| 19:18.55 | roh | Elrond oeh.. dunno. ive never tried that |
| 19:19.21 | Elrond | roh - I want a backup of my rootfs before I upgrade to 7.2 |
| 19:19.30 | Ghiottone | Elrond, I would do. sometimes it returned an error to me but the second time it worked. I'm talking about download, however, so this may not apply |
| 19:20.05 | Elrond | Ghiottone - download (kernel mostly) always worked fine. |
| 19:20.18 | ScaredyCat | mmm... ta |
| 19:21.21 | Marcel_M | np |
| 19:21.52 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 19:22.14 | Elrond | backup# time dfu-util -a rootfs -R -U rootfs-3.backup |
| 19:22.18 | Elrond | Anything wrong about this? |
| 19:22.47 | Obri | Elrond: i think upload is broken in uboot |
| 19:23.15 | Elrond | Obri - *hmpf* |
| 19:23.43 | Elrond | Obri - Is there a bug open on this? |
| 19:24.19 | Obri | Elrond: i had no time to write a bugreport |
| 19:25.27 | Elrond | Obri - But you're quite sure, that it's an u-boot issue? |
| 19:25.53 | Obri | Elrond: hmm or dfu-util |
| 19:26.18 | Elrond | The fun is: It seems to work, mostly. |
| 19:26.28 | Elrond | Except the image I get back is not as large, as I would expect. |
| 19:27.05 | Elrond | From /proc/mtd on the running neo: |
| 19:27.13 | Elrond | mtd4: 03d1c000 00004000 "rootfs" |
| 19:27.28 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r3017 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog doc/reference/Makefile.am): * doc/reference/Makefile.am: Fix incorrect use of '+=' |
| 19:27.43 | Elrond | 0x03d1c000 == 64077824 |
| 19:28.03 | Elrond | While the images I get back: 64008192 Sep 19 21:02 rootfs-2.backup |
| 19:28.04 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: manual for another daewoo vcr manual says press and hold power button for >6 seconds |
| 19:28.08 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 19:29.14 | cjb_ie | if all else fails, you could try putting the pizza box back on it. |
| 19:32.48 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:34.59 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
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| 19:40.48 | Ghiottone | ok |
| 19:41.00 | Ghiottone | if I start the neo, the kernel sees the SD card |
| 19:41.12 | Ghiottone | if I reboot and get into uboot, then mmcinit works |
| 19:41.28 | Ghiottone | but as soon as I do ext2ls mmc 0 / the neo hangs |
| 19:42.09 | Ghiottone | if however I coldstart the neo, and give the mmcinit command it fails. if then I boot, the kernel cannot see the SD card. |
| 19:42.12 | Ghiottone | any tip? |
| 19:44.24 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 19:46.33 | *** join/#openmoko orpheus (i=scott@lawn-143-215-206-54.lawn.gatech.edu) |
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| 19:50.09 | orpheus | hiya, kids |
| 19:50.18 | orpheus | guess what I just learned |
| 19:50.35 | orpheus | bitbake cares what it's working directory is |
| 19:50.42 | orpheus | who knew? |
| 19:51.01 | orpheus | in retrospect, it makes sense. |
| 19:51.09 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db35fa1.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 19:51.49 | Ghiottone | orospakr, . setup-env; cd build; bitbake whatever |
| 19:52.08 | Ghiottone | s/orospakr/orpheus/ |
| 19:52.08 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@brusc.guerrier.info) |
| 19:52.14 | Ghiottone | orospakr, sry |
| 19:52.22 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 19:52.41 | orpheus | ghiottone: yeah, i got that now |
| 19:52.52 | orpheus | it's the cd build that i missed |
| 19:52.55 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|openexpo (n=mickeyl@217-162-207-117.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:53.26 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse (i=bkruse@nat/digium/x-36c5ec67c1c6f582) |
| 19:54.01 | orpheus | i just feel dumb for spending 4 hours figuring that out |
| 19:54.39 | Ghiottone | orpheus, yeah. I learned that looking at mokomakefile wondering why it did not work |
| 19:55.12 | cindy | orpheus - welcome to the club, I did that too. :) |
| 19:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko Magon_ (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 19:55.30 | orpheus | perhaps we need to put this in big, bold letters somewhere... |
| 19:56.08 | Ghiottone | any tip for me about the sd card? |
| 19:56.37 | cindy | What kind of tip? |
| 19:57.11 | Ghiottone | I wrote some lines some minutes ago. I was asking for an advice on what to do |
| 19:57.19 | Ghiottone | I have problems with uboot and sd card |
| 19:57.48 | orpheus | is the sd card formatted as the right fs? |
| 19:58.18 | Ghiottone | it has 2 partitions. first is ext2, second contains qtopia image |
| 19:58.32 | Ghiottone | I made that with fdisk |
| 19:59.16 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky_ (n=kuyky@a81-84-74-164.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 19:59.37 | orpheus | so, i came in after what you had said before... |
| 20:00.17 | orpheus | are you trying to copy a kernel and/or rootfs image from sd? |
| 20:00.40 | Ghiottone | yes. both |
| 20:00.47 | Ghiottone | this is what I said http://pastebin.com/d732a6711 |
| 20:00.54 | orpheus | ah |
| 20:01.39 | orpheus | wow |
| 20:01.44 | orpheus | that's not good at all |
| 20:02.14 | Ghiottone | yeah |
| 20:02.16 | orpheus | and def. way over my head |
| 20:02.29 | Ghiottone | it is a show stopper for me atm |
| 20:02.39 | orpheus | can you flash over usb? |
| 20:02.52 | Ghiottone | I have all things ready for a dual boot on qtopia |
| 20:02.55 | Ghiottone | damn |
| 20:03.00 | Ghiottone | yes I can flash |
| 20:03.08 | Ghiottone | had no problem at all with the sd card |
| 20:03.19 | Ghiottone | maybe it is just the uboot version |
| 20:03.30 | *** join/#openmoko timtux (n=tim@hd5e25b44.gavlegardarna.gavle.to) |
| 20:03.33 | Ghiottone | it is of 19 aug |
| 20:03.50 | orpheus | could always try re-uboot-ing it with something older |
| 20:04.06 | timtux | What will GTA02 cost? alot more tehn GTA01? |
| 20:04.07 | aloril | timtux: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:04.47 | Ghiottone | orpheus, as I don't have the debug board, I won't risk using another uboot :( |
| 20:05.00 | orpheus | ah |
| 20:05.10 | orpheus | i read that as 19 sept |
| 20:05.14 | mjr | $450 for the base |
| 20:06.14 | timtux | mjr: any discount if you already own a GTA01? |
| 20:06.49 | orpheus | ghittone: good luck then, i'd test, but i don't have that uboot, i don't think |
| 20:06.50 | Ghiottone | timtux, no. discount has already been done in gta01 |
| 20:07.03 | timtux | Ghiottone: aight, then i better wait ;( |
| 20:08.21 | timtux | s/wlan/wifi. |
| 20:08.50 | |R | same here, 480x640 + wifi + bluetooth keyboard: ssh control room! :D |
| 20:09.40 | timtux | |R: haha, just what i thought of... the only things really essential! |
| 20:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|openexpo2 (n=mickeyl@217-162-207-117.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:10.39 | cb22 | |R, +1 on that |
| 20:10.45 | dkr | I want accelerometers so I can shake it like an etch-a-sketch to reboot |
| 20:10.55 | Ghiottone | lol |
| 20:11.00 | |R | haha |
| 20:11.19 | cb22 | i'd set mine to reboot whenever it gets thrown against a wall |
| 20:11.20 | |R | now all your contact are gone! time to redraw everything! fun! urhm.. hehe :) |
| 20:11.28 | Ghiottone | pay attention to unwanted reboot caused by some insects |
| 20:12.41 | timtux | cb22: i would set mine to start playing high quality pr0n whenever i shake it ;) |
| 20:13.05 | cb22 | heh |
| 20:13.38 | |R | would the type vary if it was shaken up/down vs left/right? (ok i never asked this, please don't answer haha ;) |
| 20:13.57 | dkr | actually, I want to play games like marble madness and labyrinth by tilting the phone, :) |
| 20:14.00 | Ghiottone | buzz hhf423_w !!! |
| 20:14.08 | |R | that would be fun :) |
| 20:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:14.16 | hhf423_w | hi Ghiottone |
| 20:14.17 | |R | the only thing scaring me right now is the battery life... |
| 20:14.23 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, hey :) |
| 20:14.31 | |R | i'm used to my cell phone lasting 4-5 days with a very low use in my pocket... |
| 20:14.48 | |R | If i start doing ssh with the screen on etc, i'll have 3 hours :P |
| 20:14.49 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: so did you play with the qtopia yet? very nice stuff |
| 20:15.11 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, not yet, actually. I'm trying hard to create a dual boot configuration |
| 20:15.56 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, but I'm having some issues with uboot and sd card :( |
| 20:15.57 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: oh, dual boot, that would be interesting. probably most interesting with shared data |
| 20:16.11 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: ubott does not like your partitioning? |
| 20:16.18 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, I don't know |
| 20:16.40 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, look at this lines I posted earlier http://pastebin.com/d732a6711 |
| 20:17.01 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, I created 2 partitions, first ext2, second with qtopia image. |
| 20:17.03 | *** join/#openmoko jaj (n=jaj@4be54-4-82-234-154-189.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:17.17 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, first one is read without problems by moko's kernel |
| 20:18.02 | hhf423_w | hmm |
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| 20:18.57 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: so did you change the bootargs to point to the second partition or what? |
| 20:19.22 | Ghiottone | yes |
| 20:19.30 | hhf423_w | and mtdparts |
| 20:19.38 | Ghiottone | mtdparts? |
| 20:19.42 | Ghiottone | what's that? |
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| 20:20.02 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: have a look here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Environment |
| 20:20.35 | hhf423_w | there are multiple pointers to rootfs |
| 20:22.08 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, I think that the kernel accepts more than a console= argument. |
| 20:22.47 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, and also the mtdparts variable should not have any effect, as I'm putting both kernel and rootfs on the sd card |
| 20:23.06 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, I would not touch that as I'm without a debug board |
| 20:23.10 | hhf423_w | yes, what I wonder about is that the "console=ttySAC0,115200", which one should remove, is in bootargs and bootargs_base |
| 20:24.31 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: so maybe you need to extract the content from the qtopia image and put that manually on the second partition? |
| 20:25.04 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, I just think that bootargs is the result of a bootcmd which sets the content of bootargs |
| 20:25.23 | Ghiottone | hhf423_w, I did it already with dd |
| 20:25.29 | Ghiottone | using a card reader |
| 20:25.39 | hhf423_w | from a linux box |
| 20:25.50 | Ghiottone | ye |
| 20:25.52 | Ghiottone | s |
| 20:26.42 | hhf423_w | and when you reverse the thing, like put the qtopia on first partition and ext2fs on second? does then the second work? |
| 20:27.03 | Ghiottone | did not check it actually |
| 20:28.09 | Ghiottone | two things are strange. that it hangs when I do ext2ls |
| 20:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Ma961.m.pppool.de) |
| 20:28.37 | Ghiottone | and that if I run uboot after boot it cannot initialize the card correctly and probably leaves it in a bad state |
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| 20:32.38 | hhf423_w | haqhaha, qtopia has a cpu monitor... |
| 20:32.56 | hhf423_w | this is definitely my first phone with cpu monitor |
| 20:33.14 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: I agree, thats is strange stuff |
| 20:33.29 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: you could put a bug report in |
| 20:33.42 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: or you could risk it and try a newer uboot |
| 20:34.10 | hhf423_w | Ghiottone: I would put a bug report in and so raise haralds attention. I have not seen him here for a long time |
| 20:34.44 | roh | which one are you using? |
| 20:34.53 | Ghiottone | roh, 19 august |
| 20:34.54 | roh | ive got http://people.openmoko.org/roh/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+git20070909+svnr2943-r0.bin tested on my phone |
| 20:36.28 | hhf423_w | roh: do you have in mind if any mmc/cdcard related stuff was fixed? |
| 20:36.48 | hhf423_w | I did not much follow the uboot changes harald did after august 19 |
| 20:37.57 | Ghiottone | maybe an svn log output could give some tip |
| 20:38.09 | hhf423_w | hahaha, this is fun, there is a PIM entry generator on qtopia. I now have 100 todos and 100 contacts |
| 20:39.22 | hhf423_w | this is quite fast |
| 20:39.26 | CM | hhf423_w: How does it feel to be both popular and busy? ;) |
| 20:39.27 | roh | hhf423_w i'm not sure. but there were bugfixes regarding nand partition erase i think |
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| 20:39.55 | hhf423_w | CM: hahaha |
| 20:39.59 | Elrond | Okay, backing up via ssh, dd, scp seems to work much better. |
| 20:40.16 | thomasg | I try to build the linux-openmoko-devel kernel, but it failes when it tries to download this file: http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/patches_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.kernel_1_.tar.gz (it is not on the server). is this known? |
| 20:40.30 | hhf423_w | roh: nand stuff was fixed in the august 19 version, partition erase I have no idea |
| 20:41.05 | Ghiottone | roh, I updated to 19 aug to get the nand fixes |
| 20:41.12 | hhf423_w | roh: are you using and of the new uboot features (read after august 19) like gsm passthrough? |
| 20:41.50 | roh | hhf423_w ive played around with it |
| 20:43.06 | ScaredyCat | ljp: ping |
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| 20:43.37 | Ghiottone | can anyone point me to the svn url of uboot? |
| 20:43.47 | hhf423_w | fsck, now I have a 100 contacts and may need to delete them by hand... |
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| 20:45.04 | hozer | is there a howto on booting from microsd? |
| 20:45.43 | Ghiottone | hozer, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD |
| 20:46.39 | hhf423_w | boy, this is brilliant, I can send contacts from by k610 to the qtopia neo |
| 20:47.03 | hozer | hrrm.. does qtopia come with a tar distribution, or just a nand flash image? |
| 20:47.12 | Ghiottone | flash image |
| 20:47.43 | hozer | I spose I should just up and flash it |
| 20:48.14 | hhf423_w | hozer there is a tar also, but just flash it :-) |
| 20:48.52 | thomasg | someone with openembedded repo access here? |
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| 20:51.14 | mwester | thomasg: yes |
| 20:51.50 | thomasg | mwester: the openmoko-linux-devel kernel wants http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/patches_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.kernel_1_.tar.gz but it's not longer on the server it seems. could you take a look what happened? |
| 20:52.18 | thomasg | I guess this here is the right file: http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/patches_svn.openmoko.org_.trunk.src.target.kernel__now.tar.gz |
| 20:53.24 | hozer | the OM phone is quad-band, right? |
| 20:53.27 | hozer | err, the neo |
| 20:53.29 | thomasg | hozer: yes |
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| 20:53.44 | mwester | "now" vs "1" seems like that might be a srcrev thing. |
| 20:54.09 | hozer | okay. I am going to try to convince a local GSM provider that they should offer a 'branded' openmoko phone, and I made a mock-up website at http://imoko.org |
| 20:54.17 | hozer | I wanted to make sure I had everything right ;) |
| 20:54.27 | mwester | I'll take a look, but I'm not too familiar with how the svn/SRCREV stuff is to be handled, process-wise. |
| 20:54.35 | Ghiottone | shouldn't it download the patches from svn if it does not find them via http? |
| 20:54.52 | thomasg | wasn't there a bitbake command to resolv srcrev problems? |
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| 20:57.32 | Elrond | Is any of the kernels / devel images on buildhost recommended? |
| 20:58.30 | hhf423_w | hozer, why a branded phone when the user can/will flash it? |
| 20:59.31 | hhf423_w | hozer: why would a GSM provider do advertise with "works with any SIM"? |
| 21:00.46 | Elrond | hhf423_w - The user would need jtag. ;o) |
| 21:00.54 | hhf423_w | ok, off to bed. talk to you all later |
| 21:01.22 | Ghiottone | bye hhf423_w |
| 21:01.22 | roh | the '1' as revision is afaik from here: http://www.openembedded.org:1081/revision/info/d6b23e81759fb2972944b275544f4969ce3412cc?q=viewmtn/revision/info/d6b23e81759fb2972944b275544f4969ce3412cc |
| 21:01.23 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Ma961.m.pppool.de) |
| 21:01.33 | roh | but i dunno exactly how that works/should work |
| 21:01.44 | hozer | hhf423_w: sure, they *could* flash it, but how many *will* |
| 21:01.54 | roh | Elrond we don't do simlock. |
| 21:01.56 | Elrond | roh - Any recommendations on which kernel/image to use from buildhost? |
| 21:02.11 | Elrond | roh - Oh, right, simlock wont work. |
| 21:02.29 | roh | Elrond uh.. nope.. i use my selfbuilt ones... i can up a new one from today if you like |
| 21:02.35 | SpeedEvil | roh: is that policy, or is the TI chipset unable to do it? |
| 21:02.48 | hozer | wouldn't you rather be able to go to a kiosk in a mall and get your moko phone flashed with the lastest tested u-boot & kernel that does cryptographic checksums before executing any code to keep malicious code from being run? ;) |
| 21:03.08 | roh | SpeedEvil as far as i am concerned its policy. the calypso can do a lot of dirty things... ;) |
| 21:03.28 | juri_ | hozer: it matters what is defined as "malicious". :) |
| 21:03.35 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-30-55.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:03.48 | SpeedEvil | Personally I want the freedom to do stuff to my phone - including lock it to a network and sell it to users at a discount, for a cut from the network. |
| 21:03.53 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 21:04.04 | roh | hozer that malicous code excuse does not work. thats fud from a industrie who did not want to hear the bang |
| 21:04.46 | hozer | roh: I think that open source is really the only place that can actually pull of cryptographic code signatures |
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| 21:05.02 | hozer | if you can't see the source, you can't sign the binary |
| 21:05.14 | roh | hozer its still senseless. it just limits freedom and gives you no security. |
| 21:06.01 | hozer | personally, I'd love to be able to set a boot option on my debian systems such that they will only run code signed by a debian maintainer's GPG key |
| 21:06.04 | Elrond | roh - It would give freedom, if the _user_ can do the signing. |
| 21:06.25 | Elrond | hozer - No, by my own key. |
| 21:06.46 | hozer | yes, that too |
| 21:06.47 | roh | Elrond ack. but you can do that already. just build that into uboot and you are set. of course you could override it everytime with the jtag, so its senseless. |
| 21:06.51 | jpcass | the console's flashing cursor is showing through the qtopia screen |
| 21:06.52 | Elrond | hozer - BTW: Are there any kernel options to do this sort? |
| 21:07.02 | jpcass | (wouldnt happen with an Xserver ;-) |
| 21:07.05 | hozer | not that I am currently aware of |
| 21:07.26 | hozer | there's a lot of infrastructure you'd need to start with |
| 21:07.36 | hozer | like making sure all your binaries are signed |
| 21:08.19 | Elrond | roh - I know the jtag problem. But that at least involves opening the neo, etc. |
| 21:08.27 | roh | Elrond http://people.openmoko.org/roh/ has a new image from today and a uboot i tested |
| 21:08.52 | roh | there is also a one week old build in that dir. |
| 21:08.52 | Elrond | roh - A uboot for Bv03 you tested? ;o) |
| 21:09.03 | roh | for bv4 |
| 21:09.17 | Elrond | I only have bv3. :) |
| 21:09.27 | roh | i can test one for bv02, but not for bv3 (don't have one) |
| 21:09.48 | Elrond | I'll stay with my 2040 u-boot. :) |
| 21:10.17 | roh | heh.. thats really buggy.. but have fun |
| 21:10.25 | roh | that one still eats chars on the serial |
| 21:10.37 | Elrond | I know. |
| 21:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D80B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:10.57 | Elrond | One has to type slowly. ;-) |
| 21:11.24 | Elrond | But I haven't yet seen a more recent u-boot which was tested on bv03 |
| 21:12.19 | roh | well.. then we need somebody with an bv3 who is either brave or has a debugboard |
| 21:13.12 | mwester | thomasg: I don't think anything should be looking at those files for patches; I think they are all too old at this point (my copies are much more recent). I think something else may be wrong... |
| 21:13.37 | mwester | roh: I nominate rwhitby :) :p |
| 21:13.51 | mwester | (I think he has an 03) |
| 21:13.52 | Elrond | mwester - ;o) |
| 21:14.16 | Elrond | roh - I probably should acquire a debugboard and learn to use it. ;o) |
| 21:14.34 | thomasg | mwester: I did a mtn pull && mtn update, so I should have the most recent version |
| 21:14.37 | Elrond | roh - But couldn't convince myself to do exactly that. |
| 21:15.44 | mwester | thomasg: As did I, but I think the problem is that an mtn pull/update does not contain enough information to help OE resolve which SVN version to fetch for the patches, it tries for "1" because (as roh pointed out) that's the default. |
| 21:15.57 | ljp | ScaredyCat: pong |
| 21:16.10 | ScaredyCat | got a mo? |
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| 21:16.20 | ljp | sure |
| 21:17.06 | zecke | ljp: did you send your Neo to Madrid as well? |
| 21:17.14 | ScaredyCat | I've built the qtopia image myself, but am having touchscreen issues... |
| 21:17.23 | Elrond | roh - Could you do "md5sum *.jffs2 u >MD5SUMS"? |
| 21:17.39 | mwester | thomasg: So we can either provide a sane SVN version (such as 2937, which I think is the latest), but that anchors us to that version. Or we can try to tell OE to use the latest, but I'm not sure how well that works just yet. |
| 21:17.45 | thomasg | mwester: I took a look at the bitbake-file, but the syntax is too, erm, different, for me :) |
| 21:17.54 | mwester | It's not in the bitbake file :( |
| 21:18.20 | Elrond | s/u/u*/ |
| 21:18.27 | mwester | It's all buried in the logic in the various bitbake code and add-on classes, and a set of config files in the "distro" directory. |
| 21:18.32 | thomasg | not this line? svn://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel;module=patches;proto=http;name=patches \ |
| 21:19.15 | mwester | That's just the prototype -- bitbake "fills in" the rest of the info as it runs. |
| 21:19.42 | mwester | The "1" vs the "now" comes from a default and a config file |
| 21:20.38 | mwester | thomasg: but the other problem is that on the server you pointed out, all the tarballs containing the patches are several months old, and 200KB smaller than the current one. |
| 21:20.56 | mwester | So I don't think that it is fetching a tarball, at least not from that download location. |
| 21:21.00 | ljp | zecke: the good one is in madrid. the v3 is here |
| 21:21.46 | thomasg | mwester: but that's the error I get :) |
| 21:22.36 | mwester | Yeah. I think it's misleading -- sort of the last place it looks in an attempt to search for a means to satisfy the dependency. |
| 21:23.23 | mwester | It'll take me a while to get my OE environment in a state where I can attempt to fetch the kernel stuff, I'll see what error I get when it gets there... |
| 21:23.36 | jpcass | check the file openembedded/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc - |
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| 21:23.57 | jpcass | that is where known good revisions for various packages are held |
| 21:24.10 | jpcass | also file sane-srcdates.inc which contains known-good dates. |
| 21:24.22 | jpcass | for svn co -r {20070703} for example |
| 21:24.44 | zecke | ljp: I wonder if you have the Calypso Datasheet (by looking at the vendorplugin you wrote) |
| 21:24.58 | jpcass | i ahvent found out where bitbake logs its do_fetch activities, I dont think it does so. |
| 21:25.43 | jpcass | you can override the download revision by editing the bb file and adding ;rev=NNN to the SRC_URI, or by setting the SRCREV variable |
| 21:26.02 | Elrond | roh - *ping* |
| 21:26.08 | ljp | zecke: we had already created a vendor plugin for a different TI modem and just used that, and added some |
| 21:26.29 | ljp | we do have the daya sheet now |
| 21:26.32 | ljp | data |
| 21:27.36 | roh | Elrond pong |
| 21:31.04 | hozer | hrrm.. So, what if we built openmoko with uclibc instead of glibc... |
| 21:31.15 | hozer | I wonder how much stuff would break |
| 21:31.22 | Elrond | roh - Ahh, thanks. :-) |
| 21:32.14 | rwhitby | hozer: just port openwrt to the neo |
| 21:32.16 | rwhitby | morning |
| 21:33.45 | rwhitby | hozer: actually I think Angstrom builds with uclibc, so you could try that right now. |
| 21:35.23 | jseghers_ | Does anyone know a version of uicmoc3-native that compiles? |
| 21:35.32 | Hopscotch | nope |
| 21:35.36 | Hopscotch | but i fixed the current |
| 21:35.38 | Hopscotch | locally... |
| 21:35.55 | roh | n8 guys |
| 21:36.03 | Hopscotch | night |
| 21:36.11 | Ghiottone | nite roh |
| 21:36.15 | jseghers_ | hopscotch: what did you do to fix it? |
| 21:36.31 | Hopscotch | go to the directory where the linker fails |
| 21:36.36 | Hopscotch | open the .pro file |
| 21:36.46 | Hopscotch | add the word "network" to the QT += |
| 21:36.55 | Hopscotch | then rerun your build |
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| 21:43.47 | jseghers_ | Hopscotch: it's not failing in the linker, it's failing in do_configure, and I don't know which of the myriad of .pro files might be controlling it at that point. |
| 21:44.00 | Hopscotch | ah, ok |
| 21:44.09 | Hopscotch | here it failed while linking... |
| 21:44.38 | jseghers_ | http://pastebin.com/m7daa58d8 |
| 21:45.24 | Hopscotch | not my bug, sorry |
| 21:45.32 | Hopscotch | mine was version 4.something |
| 21:46.07 | jseghers_ | Anyone else have an idea about uicmoc3? |
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| 21:59.53 | iandouglas | hi all, having an issue with my GTA01BV4 ... I logged in via SSH over USB-Ethernet, ran "ipkg update" and "ipkg upgrade" and it looks like it upgraded the kernel to 2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r2 but now the phone won't finish booting, it's still on the splash screen before the second screen appears saying it's starting the UI. Any ideas? |
| 21:59.54 | aloril | iandouglas: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:00.28 | iandouglas | i can still connect to the phone via USB-Ethernet, but not sure how to fix this |
| 22:00.51 | abraxa_ | iandouglas: Sounds like the gsmd problem |
| 22:01.36 | orpheus | which target actually rebuilds the jffs2 root image? |
| 22:01.47 | abraxa_ | iandouglas: The init sequence for the GSM chip isn't working reliably or something and hangs the Neo most of the time... or something of that sort |
| 22:02.01 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:02.20 | iandouglas | abraxa: thanks, any ETA on a fix? |
| 22:02.43 | orpheus | is this the thing we're all waiting on TI to fix? |
| 22:03.00 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 22:03.05 | SpeedEvil | that's a completely seperate thing |
| 22:03.07 | orpheus | k |
| 22:03.07 | Elrond | Hi abraxa_! :) |
| 22:03.08 | mwester | iandouglas: there are several workarounds, and a couple of proposed fixes already present for that lockup problem. |
| 22:03.15 | SpeedEvil | the GSMd problem is fixed in software at the moment |
| 22:03.22 | SpeedEvil | it's just not installed into the images |
| 22:03.22 | abraxa_ | Heya Elrond :) |
| 22:03.42 | mwester | iandouglas: The easiest, since your phone won't boot at the moment, is to go into the uboot environment, and remove the "console" line from the boot arguments. |
| 22:04.04 | mwester | !bug 788 |
| 22:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@131.151.103.84) |
| 22:04.19 | mwester | !ombug 788 |
| 22:04.32 | mwester | (blasted bot!) |
| 22:04.53 | mwester | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 <-- has more info. |
| 22:04.54 | iandouglas | mwester: does changing the uboot environment require the debug board? (I don't have the developer's edition of the phone/etc) |
| 22:05.03 | SpeedEvil | iandouglas: no |
| 22:05.17 | SpeedEvil | iandouglas: trivial way is you connect over serial a thte uboot screen |
| 22:05.25 | SpeedEvil | then do set env hfdoikfhoiwhg and thgen saveenv |
| 22:05.28 | SpeedEvil | or something |
| 22:05.38 | SpeedEvil | see [[bootloader]] |
| 22:05.56 | mwester | iandouglas: you don't even have to make it permanent in uboot - if you can boot once, you can edit the /etc/init.d/gsmd file and use that fix instead -- but you have to be able to boot first. |
| 22:06.35 | iandouglas | i can boot far enough to SSH into the phone via USB, and can make changes that way... I just don't have the GUI starting |
| 22:07.26 | mwester | iandouglas: In that case, if you don't feel comfortable messing with uboot parameters, edit the /etc/init.d/gsmd file. |
| 22:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@164.pool62-37-84.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 22:07.54 | iandouglas | mwester: thanks, looking though bug 788 now for the change |
| 22:08.03 | mwester | The bug report URL will have info on the two "stty" lines that you'll need to add. |
| 22:08.13 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 22:08.49 | mwester | iandouglas: the /etc/init.d/gsmd workaround is documented in comment #15 |
| 22:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:09.17 | iandouglas | rockin' thanks! |
| 22:09.20 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_ (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 22:09.21 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_nominees_for_GTA02_P0]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Square_case]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Stylus_mount]] [[Gsmd/ru]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[Main_Page/ru]] |
| 22:09.44 | *** part/#openmoko orpheus (i=scott@lawn-143-215-206-54.lawn.gatech.edu) |
| 22:15.09 | iandouglas | mwester: after applying the change, and trying to restart gsmd, I see "stty: /dev/ttySAC0: No such file or directory" |
| 22:15.55 | *** join/#openmoko marek (n=pyxel@fedora/pyxel) |
| 22:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@host90-127-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:16.30 | marek | hi, when do you expect final release? |
| 22:16.30 | aloril | marek: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:16.49 | mwester | iandouglas: either you don't have the same Neo that I have, or perhaps it's mistyped somewhere? |
| 22:16.58 | iandouglas | gta01bv4 |
| 22:17.13 | iandouglas | i'll try restarting the neo |
| 22:17.28 | SpeedEvil | Marex: some months |
| 22:17.29 | mwester | Hmm. Check to make sure that /dev/ttyS* exist... |
| 22:17.46 | iandouglas | ttySA0 exists, just not ttySAC0 |
| 22:18.19 | iandouglas | also have /dev/ttyS0 |
| 22:19.15 | mwester | iandouglas: are you sure you're ssh'd into the neo? What is the output from uname -a ? |
| 22:19.26 | iandouglas | Linux fic-gta01 2.6.21.5-moko10 #1 PREEMPT Sun Aug 19 01:25:41 UTC 2007 armv4tl unknown |
| 22:19.46 | iandouglas | hmm, it looks like the reboot reverted to the older kernel |
| 22:19.49 | mwester | That's a bit older than I expected. |
| 22:20.16 | jseghers_ | Anyone have an idea for fixing uicmoc3-native? http://pastebin.com/m7daa58d8 |
| 22:20.20 | mwester | It probably didn't load the modules, and that's why the ttySAC device is missing. |
| 22:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:22.00 | marek | developres, where should I put this bugreport, openmoko or qemu? http://openpaste.org/en/3179/ |
| 22:22.07 | marek | I mean the core file |
| 22:22.59 | fgau | jseghers_: do you have try clean and rebuild this package? |
| 22:23.27 | Casten | omg, I sucessfully built! |
| 22:23.44 | mwester | jseghers_: uicmoc3 is looking for that directory, probably because it found something left over in the toolchain - usually when that happens, you have to wipe out the build/tmp directory and start over. |
| 22:23.47 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 22:23.53 | jseghers_ | fgau: multiple times. I've even deleted the tarball from sources...though I had to manually go get it again, the build script wouldn't pull it. |
| 22:24.05 | mwester | jseghers_: My builds don't actually build qmake-native, it looks like... |
| 22:24.22 | mwester | Do you have qmake installed on the host? |
| 22:24.32 | fgau | jseghers_: pls pastbin the error log |
| 22:25.06 | jseghers_ | mwester: I have run into this both from my complete rebuild attempt from last night and also from the rebuild this morning since we were informed that there had been a glitch in the toolchain last night. |
| 22:25.14 | jseghers_ | fgau: http://pastebin.com/m7daa58d8 |
| 22:25.31 | mwester | jseghers_: That would make me believe it is something in your host environment. |
| 22:25.47 | jseghers_ | mwester: qmake is installed on the host |
| 22:26.23 | jseghers_ | mwester: my host environment has not changed. I've been able to build up until earlier this week. |
| 22:26.53 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:27.00 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242408990.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:27.27 | jseghers_ | I believe uicmoc3-native is pulled in by compiling qte-x11-free, which contains QVFB, which I need |
| 22:27.29 | *** join/#openmoko drath (i=vmaster@p5B07EFC2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:27.38 | fgau | jseghers_: pastbin this home/moko2/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/uicmoc3-native-3.3.5-r3/temp/log.do_configure.32056 |
| 22:28.06 | mwester | What is it you are building? openmoko-devel-image or something else (or more)? |
| 22:29.14 | mwester | bbiab |
| 22:29.34 | jseghers_ | fgau: the entirety of that file is: cp: cannot stat `/home/moko2/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/share/qmake/linux-oe-g++/*': No such file or directory |
| 22:29.39 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@89.176.208.115) |
| 22:30.32 | *** join/#openmoko rockprincess (n=theresa@chello084112026078.6.11.vie.surfer.at) |
| 22:30.58 | jseghers_ | mwester: openmoko-devel-image with phoneme-feature + QVFB + a couple of other packages. |
| 22:31.20 | jseghers_ | QVFB is contained in qt-x11-free |
| 22:32.38 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-182-147.cust.broadway.se) |
| 22:32.47 | rockprincess | hello! |
| 22:33.11 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: Hi |
| 22:33.21 | rockprincess | hi jseghers_! |
| 22:33.59 | rockprincess | i know the openmoko phone is still in development status, but will the phone be only available through the net, or will it be available in shops as well? |
| 22:34.00 | aloril | rockprincess: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:34.24 | *** join/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@24-117-66-51.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 22:34.36 | rockprincess | thank you! |
| 22:34.49 | marek | please, any ideas about http://openpaste.org/en/3179/? |
| 22:35.10 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: at the current time, it's only available on the net... When it comes out, I'm sure FIC will try to get it into whatever channels it can. |
| 22:36.18 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@Ma209.m.pppool.de) |
| 22:37.44 | SpeedEvil | It will not come out in retail channels till at the least 6 months after it's consumer ready IMO. |
| 22:38.09 | SpeedEvil | I would be surprised at next august personally. |
| 22:38.18 | jseghers_ | marek: I haven't built QEMU version for quite a while. |
| 22:38.44 | *** join/#openmoko zblach_ (n=zblach@bas2-windsor12-1088927468.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:38.58 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: where are you located? |
| 22:39.02 | Elrond | The 2007.2 startup sound is just too loud. |
| 22:39.17 | rockprincess | thanks for your answers....so the end product (once it has finished the beta phase) will be priced at 450$ is that right? |
| 22:39.23 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:39.33 | rockprincess | jseghers_, i'm located at austria (europe) |
| 22:39.35 | marek | jseghers_: where should I report this bug, openmoko or qemu? what do you using for emulation? |
| 22:39.58 | *** join/#openmoko Ganneff (i=joerg@freenode/staff/debian.ganneff) |
| 22:40.48 | shipman | is Phase2 slated for Nov? |
| 22:40.55 | jseghers_ | marek: I've got a phone... so I'm not doing emulation at the moment. Though building for x86 target and running in a chroot environment with Xephyr allows you to do almost everything emulation will do |
| 22:41.12 | jseghers_ | marek: as far as where to report it... I don't know. |
| 22:41.25 | SpeedEvil | shipman: it's not been confirmed |
| 22:41.34 | shipman | k |
| 22:41.45 | SpeedEvil | there has been no official word other than 'october' |
| 22:41.46 | marek | jseghers_: ok, many thanks |
| 22:41.56 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: as far as we know, that's the pricing info... |
| 22:42.05 | SpeedEvil | which is very unlikely to be met for end-user-purchasable hardware. |
| 22:42.30 | rockprincess | jseghers_, i'm wondering if it will work smoothly with my sim card....should be no problem, right? |
| 22:42.39 | shipman | yeah |
| 22:42.51 | SpeedEvil | rockprincess: any GSM provider pretty much |
| 22:43.39 | rockprincess | excellent :D |
| 22:45.26 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: yes, the only carrier that seems to have problems at the moment is AT&T...and since you're in Europe, that won't affect you :) |
| 22:45.38 | rockprincess | i once read that openmoko is designed to suit linux users, sp there shouldn't be a problem connecting it to my linux box via bluetooth?! :D, i myself experience that pairing bluetooth devices on kde can be very messy (at least a year ago) but i think kdebluetooth might have already fixed that :D |
| 22:45.42 | shipman | AT&T? |
| 22:45.45 | shipman | really |
| 22:45.58 | shipman | they don't use standard sim cards? |
| 22:46.49 | anrp | something in the chain |
| 22:46.53 | anrp | is slightly-not-gsm |
| 22:46.54 | rockprincess | i take it that it won't be sim locked then? i can use whatever sim card (from any provider) i want?! |
| 22:46.59 | anrp | ya |
| 22:47.27 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: That is correct! |
| 22:48.21 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: I know the bluetooth stuff is being worked on at the moment... I don't know what the real status of it is at the moment. |
| 22:48.34 | jseghers_ | but, yes, that should be the case |
| 22:48.44 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (n=kwkw@77-56-75-225.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:49.03 | zmedico | marek: I get a segfault like you too, but I didn't used to. try an svn revision from a week or 2 ago and it will probably work |
| 22:50.16 | *** join/#openmoko rushforth (n=rushfort@sifl.rushforthnetworks.com) |
| 22:50.43 | zmedico | marek: r2404 worked for me in the past |
| 22:51.29 | shipman | is anyone working on OSX iSync support? |
| 22:51.33 | rockprincess | this phone is looking like a very charming device, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it, but only one more question (I'm sorry I didn't find an answer to it in the wiki) the neo1973 can only be charged/loaded via an usb cable? |
| 22:52.17 | anrp | nod |
| 22:52.28 | anrp | until power over bluetooth is perfected |
| 22:54.18 | rockprincess | but still you'd need a computer to charge your phone, right? there's no extra charging tool that you can plug into your power outlet planned, is there? |
| 22:55.10 | SpeedEvil | you can - eventually - charge it using any USBV charger |
| 22:55.12 | SpeedEvil | you can - eventually - charge it using any USB charger |
| 22:55.57 | rockprincess | ahhh thanks SpeedEvil, this looks good! |
| 22:56.51 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: they're trying to make it behave itself when plugged into a USB port, not to draw full power unless told it can. Problem is that wall chargers don't speak the protocol and so it never goes to fast charge. The folks working on it are trying to figure out the best compromise so that it will be able to charge from a dumb charger and yet not overdraw from unpowered hubs |
| 22:56.59 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 22:58.04 | jseghers_ | rockprincess: and even now, if you fully power down (i.e. pull the battery and then put it back in and don't touch the power button) you can slow-charge it with a dumb charger. |
| 23:00.33 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 23:01.39 | rockprincess | that'd be a good idea, jseghers_! although probably most people who will use this phone will charge it through the computer, but sometimes there |
| 23:01.52 | rockprincess | that'd be a good idea, jseghers_! although probably most people who will use this phone will charge it through the computer, but sometimes there's only the wall chargers solution...h.mmm |
| 23:05.04 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-75-232.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:05.58 | rockprincess | i'll post a blog about neo1973 on my blog now :D |
| 23:06.17 | linux_galore | things are starting to get interesting with Qtopia creating a port for the OM |
| 23:06.44 | mwester | There's an understatement! |
| 23:07.10 | linux_galore | well its good because now there is competition on the OM |
| 23:08.30 | mwester | Increased visibility to users, increased number as well as diversity of developers... all good. |
| 23:09.04 | linux_galore | also means more people working on the base code ie kernel level to make things run smoothly |
| 23:09.48 | linux_galore | I like QT to be honest I find GTK a bit messy |
| 23:10.20 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-176-104.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 23:11.23 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: ping |
| 23:11.40 | linux_galore | well another up side is Skype might be ported to the OM |
| 23:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko der__io (n=der@p54A0C687.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:12.39 | mwester | (but not on the Neo - yet!) |
| 23:12.52 | Lynet | Isn't Skype rather CPU heavy? |
| 23:13.18 | linux_galore | Lynet no, on my N800 with a slower cpu than the OM it works fine |
| 23:13.37 | Lynet | linux_galore: Ah, nice. |
| 23:14.19 | linux_galore | the version of skype used on portable devices isnt exactly the same as the PC variants but works very much the same |
| 23:14.22 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@209.79.152.199) |
| 23:14.22 | juri_ | increased competition isn't the interesting part.. any time two people support the same hardware, the knowlege gained by comparing and contrasting their work is very interesting. :) |
| 23:14.50 | Elrond | Of course, I crashed today. ;o) |
| 23:15.07 | Lynet | linux_galore: Voice only, right? No video? |
| 23:15.09 | linux_galore | Elrond: sux to be you |
| 23:15.21 | linux_galore | Lynet: yep only voice |
| 23:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 23:16.09 | linux_galore | Lynet: there is no video skype client for Linux, Gizmo and Google have one in the works though |
| 23:17.29 | linux_galore | anyway back to work |
| 23:18.23 | linux_galore | dare say as soon as Gizmo puts out a client with video Skype will soon follow rather than loose mind share |
| 23:19.09 | *** join/#openmoko j0nas` (n=tim@fctnnbsc16w-156034222128.nb.aliant.net) |
| 23:22.22 | linux_galore | wonder if there is any talk of the GTA03 yet |
| 23:22.48 | linux_galore | ie 3G please |
| 23:23.45 | linux_galore | 5" LCD, built in toilet paper dispenser heh |
| 23:25.16 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:25.25 | Mek | 9megapixel camera with 15x optical zoom? |
| 23:25.45 | Elrond | linux_galore - What do you mean by "sux to be you" ? |
| 23:26.27 | Elrond | Mek - That's 1kg of glas. ;o) |
| 23:26.36 | SpeedEvil | hovercraft! |
| 23:26.43 | SpeedEvil | (eels optional) |
| 23:27.25 | linux_galore | Elrond: its humour |
| 23:27.28 | jseghers_ | subspace communcator!! |
| 23:28.09 | Elrond | linux_galore - *g* |
| 23:28.19 | linux_galore | dont forget the important thing, 10 Gigawat pulse laser |
| 23:28.23 | Lynet | Enugh with this UMTS and GSM I say, say yes to Tachyons. |
| 23:28.32 | Lynet | s/Enoug/Enough |
| 23:28.52 | jseghers_ | When you really need to make that phone call yesterday! |
| 23:29.04 | linux_galore | the ultimate laser pointer, |
| 23:29.26 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 23:29.59 | linux_galore | make an Iraqi edition with a bullet proof case |
| 23:31.10 | shipman | what would be cool would be a programmable keyless entry (for vehicles) in there |
| 23:31.20 | shipman | if there is such a thing |
| 23:31.48 | Elrond | Anyway. Good night people. |
| 23:31.55 | *** join/#openmoko hadara (i=hadara@2001:7d0:0:1:2d0:b7ff:feb7:f667) |
| 23:32.17 | linux_galore | and you not a real asian electronics manufacturer until you have made an all pink Hello Kitty version |
| 23:32.37 | Aria | iWant |
| 23:33.05 | Casten | How does one determine the best u-boot version to use? |
| 23:33.23 | Lynet | Something more realistic would be a complete BT stack. I want to use my phone as a wireless keyboard/mouse, f.ex. |
| 23:33.47 | Mek | use the accelerometers to use it as a mouse! :P |
| 23:33.51 | shipman | or a wireless kb/mouse on your phone |
| 23:34.09 | linux_galore | shipman: should be able to do that anyway |
| 23:34.17 | shipman | ah |
| 23:34.28 | Lynet | I mean that seriously. BT is so underused on phones today compared to what it can be used for. |
| 23:34.32 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 23:34.32 | shipman | yeah |
| 23:34.40 | shipman | especially verizon phones |
| 23:34.41 | linux_galore | shipman: you can buy a Bluetooth nano mouse |
| 23:34.48 | shipman | yeah |
| 23:34.53 | linux_galore | ie really small |
| 23:35.05 | Casten | Anyone out there with any u-boot knowledge? |
| 23:35.32 | linux_galore | shipman: also the USB port on the OM can host devices |
| 23:35.37 | shipman | cool |
| 23:36.34 | linux_galore | shipman: best to look at the OM as a really small computer with bluetooth and gsm hardware running Linux |
| 23:36.43 | shipman | cool |
| 23:37.07 | linux_galore | shipman: as of the GTA02 next month we also have WIFi |
| 23:37.31 | shipman | The Wifi sold me on it |
| 23:38.05 | linux_galore | shipman: yeah, I need wifi because Im not a BT fan |
| 23:38.44 | shipman | I need wifi because of wifi hotspots |
| 23:38.44 | shipman | bt hotspots not so much |
| 23:38.44 | shipman | ;-) |
| 23:39.33 | j0nas` | i can't wait for dual mode wifi/gsm |
| 23:39.50 | shipman | do we know what browser will ship in the GTA02? |
| 23:39.58 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 23:40.05 | shipman | k |
| 23:40.26 | SpeedEvil | GTA02 initial sales - probably december - will not have complete end-user software on likely. |
| 23:41.14 | shipman | hmmmm, really? |
| 23:41.42 | shipman | I thought they were going for consumer product release with GTA02 |
| 23:41.51 | shipman | or will it just be the initial batch |
| 23:43.26 | shipman | that lacks the end-user software |
| 23:45.24 | SpeedEvil | just initial batch |
| 23:45.33 | shipman | oh ok |
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