| 00:02.07 | tuukkah | now there's a new wiki page trying to give a high-level view on power management: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Power_management_requirements#Power_saving |
| 00:02.11 | sunix | :) |
| 00:02.18 | doc|work | mike hodson's repsonse++ |
| 00:02.26 | tuukkah | s/#Power_saving/ |
| 00:02.31 | tuukkah | / |
| 00:03.15 | holycow | his comments remind me a little of my own linux zealotry |
| 00:03.34 | holycow | sometimes you get into a row with someone and try to dig up a lot of nonsense just to justify your own position |
| 00:03.55 | doc|work | wow, that's long.... |
| 00:04.01 | vallor | http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=q8vt624sx6qq&style=o&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=13286728&sp=Point.q8vtnz4sx632_1001%20Page%20St%2C%20San%20Francisco%2C%20CA%2094117%2C%20United%20States___~Point.q8vtwz4sx677_1001%20Page%20St%2C%20San%20Francisco%2C%20CA%2094117-2218%2C%20United%20States___&encType=1 |
| 00:04.09 | vallor | I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE, BIATCH! |
| 00:04.10 | vallor | hehe |
| 00:04.15 | sunix | lol |
| 00:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:04.23 | vallor | just being silly |
| 00:04.42 | sunix | to closed to your home to send a nuclear bomb :p |
| 00:04.52 | sunix | to -> too :) |
| 00:07.36 | hrw | o fsck.. |
| 00:07.53 | hrw | http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Openmoko_Phone_linux_based_New_UI_Screenshots - 270 diggs and 76 comments on my blog post |
| 00:08.02 | holycow | thats yours? |
| 00:08.03 | holycow | right on |
| 00:08.06 | holycow | nice placement |
| 00:08.57 | doc|work | home time |
| 00:09.51 | tuukkah | hrw, is the page down already? |
| 00:10.01 | tuukkah | i get a blank page |
| 00:10.03 | hrw | tuukkah: no - its dugged |
| 00:10.56 | cesarb | tuukkah: Cool, another "requirements" page... I have mine on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Requirements |
| 00:12.07 | cesarb | tuukkah: mine is more generic, however... |
| 00:12.14 | hrw | during normal days my apache log was ~100KB. now it is 5.5MB |
| 00:12.56 | tuukkah | cesarb, we should have some process for requirements management so these wouldn't be personal opinions anymore |
| 00:13.28 | *** part/#openmoko sunix (n=sunix@sunix.org) |
| 00:13.45 | hrw | http://blog.haerwu.biz.nyud.net:8080/2007/09/13/openmoko-20072-testing/ is mirror if someone want to test |
| 00:13.52 | hrw | s/test/look |
| 00:13.57 | cesarb | tuukkah: we have a wiki... isn't that enough? we can just make a [[Requirements]] page and start shaping it |
| 00:14.02 | vallor | hrw: are you looking for a place to host the images? |
| 00:14.08 | hrw | vallor: no |
| 00:14.14 | vallor | kk |
| 00:14.41 | cesarb | tuukkah: mine was more intended as a personal checklist (the first item on it is gsmd - so I started trying to make gsmd work reliably... I failed so far, but at least I tried ;-) ) |
| 00:15.31 | tuukkah | cesarb, indeed, like you see that's what i did wrt power management requirements ;-) but wiki has the problem that there is not explicit process to get people to accept the results |
| 00:16.43 | cesarb | tuukkah: no need for any "acceptance", it can be just a focus for further development |
| 00:16.48 | tuukkah | cesarb, i think your power management requirements are mostly covered by my page, except for "Tone when battery low" which is about ui |
| 00:17.07 | tuukkah | cesarb, but it's no use if people don't look at it |
| 00:17.12 | cesarb | tuukkah: if you have something as "must have", you will try to work on it earlier than a "nice to have" one... |
| 00:18.09 | cesarb | tuukkah: yeah, the tone is UI, but it's very important (it tells you you should recharge soon or lose your phone for a while... it's even more important in the middle of a call, where you can tell the other side "I'll call you later, my battery is almost empty") |
| 00:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@85-211-21-215.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.01 | cesarb | tuukkah: my page was written from an "end-user" POV, so whether something is UI or plumbing or voodoo doesn't make a difference |
| 00:19.20 | tuukkah | hmm perhaps my page should get third category: ui :-) |
| 00:19.51 | tuukkah | "The phone should keep the user informed of power management state and events" |
| 00:20.04 | vallor | hrw: nice review, gives 'em a taste :) |
| 00:20.12 | cesarb | tuukkah: precisely. nice way to put it. |
| 00:21.08 | vallor | quick question: does the calendar accept vcard data via bluetooth? I might try feeding it my contact list from the treo... |
| 00:22.50 | berkus | "The “free and open Anti-iPhone” rhetoric surrounding the FIC phone is therefore marketing drivel to sell a Chinese Windows Mobile device as a hobbyist kit for phone hackers." interesting POV |
| 00:25.18 | hrw | 6000 hits in 2 hours... |
| 00:25.24 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:25.32 | hrw | normally it takes 4-6 days for such amount |
| 00:27.23 | hrw | rwhitby: or place pictures on flickr |
| 00:27.49 | vallor | NOTE: build 200709131540: completed :) |
| 00:28.06 | rwhitby | eh - I never write anything interesting enough to digg anyway. |
| 00:28.11 | cesarb | tuukkah: I added a category |
| 00:28.37 | vallor | about an hour and forty minutes to build |
| 00:29.00 | hrw | rwhitby: I didn't thought that such post can be so popular |
| 00:29.46 | vallor | so throw some google adsense ads on there ;P |
| 00:30.30 | hrw | vallor: I do not like ads |
| 00:30.42 | vallor | I was half-kidding ;P |
| 00:32.33 | cesarb | hrw: ah, but Google's are Not Evil(tm) |
| 00:33.41 | tuukkah | cesarb, the category's a good idea |
| 00:33.57 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c-68-35-124-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 00:34.01 | juri_ | i'm celebrating my second year in a row turning down a sysadmin job at google. i'm a programmer, not a sysadmin. DAMNIT. |
| 00:35.15 | cesarb | tuukkah: I just wasn't so sure about the category's category |
| 00:35.15 | bedboi | juri_: it's the same sport that i practice. refusing jobs |
| 00:35.15 | bedboi | juri_: btw i'm italian. Italians do not work. |
| 00:35.15 | cesarb | tuukkah: I sorta picked a reasonably-looking one, but I probably chose the wrong one |
| 00:35.17 | bedboi | what's the point offering a job to an italian guy |
| 00:35.29 | cesarb | tuukkah: I have always been BAD with categories... Which is why I let dealing with them to the other wikipedia admins |
| 00:35.39 | tuukkah | cesarb, the categories are blurry in any case. i think it's more important to put links in good places |
| 00:35.40 | juri_ | bedboi: hurts a lot for me; google would pay ~3X what i'm making now. |
| 00:35.41 | cesarb | juri_: have you ever had a sysadmin job? |
| 00:35.57 | juri_ | cesarb: unfortunately, most of my carreer. |
| 00:36.06 | cesarb | juri_: if you had, then you already lost - once a sysadmin, always a sysadmin. You'll sooner or later get back to it. |
| 00:36.16 | bedboi | juri_: whatever i accept would pay at least 5x :) |
| 00:36.31 | cesarb | juri_: (something like that is one of the scary devil monastery's mottoes) |
| 00:36.39 | juri_ | 2.5 years at my current job. |
| 00:36.51 | vallor | well, I work, but my (theoretically current) r&d project is fiddling with a meraki -- so the whole embedded linux world(s) is exciting, new, and "work-related" (if you squint a certain way) ... |
| 00:37.21 | juri_ | its hard to emphasize that my programming skills are why i make a good sysadmin, not the other way arround. :) |
| 00:37.24 | holycow | sysadmin has to be one of the best jobs out there |
| 00:37.29 | holycow | if you are a linux sysadmin that is |
| 00:37.33 | tuukkah | now a job developing openmoko would be something... :-) |
| 00:37.39 | holycow | once you set things up, all you do is twiddle your thumbs most of the time |
| 00:37.43 | bedboi | holycow: it depends. |
| 00:37.57 | cesarb | holycow: sysadmin is only one of the best jobs if you are one step ahead of the trouble |
| 00:38.00 | bedboi | holycow: for me it would be the worst |
| 00:38.10 | holycow | cesarb: thats true too |
| 00:38.13 | cesarb | holycow: which is easier with linux, of course |
| 00:38.14 | juri_ | i wrote remote desktop printing code over the last few weeks. is that sysadmining? :) |
| 00:38.22 | mickeyl | evening. |
| 00:38.27 | bedboi | hi mickeyl |
| 00:38.27 | hrw | hi mickeyl |
| 00:38.29 | cesarb | holycow: if you aren't one step ahead... it can be one of the most stressing computing jobs |
| 00:38.30 | holycow | bedboi: sure everyone has their preferences, yous is? |
| 00:38.38 | cesarb | mickeyl: good night. |
| 00:38.39 | holycow | cesarb: yup that too |
| 00:38.43 | bedboi | holycow: C coding. |
| 00:38.51 | bedboi | holycow: and research |
| 00:38.53 | bedboi | of course |
| 00:38.54 | holycow | :) |
| 00:38.55 | vallor | hrw: do you mind if I pass on that mirrored link to our local lug's mailing list? |
| 00:39.07 | holycow | i like research too, not too many people want to pay me to google all day long tho |
| 00:39.14 | holycow | ... oh you mean REAL research :) |
| 00:39.24 | bedboi | holycow: yep that stuff, conferences, journals |
| 00:39.30 | hrw | vallor: only if you pass original url + mirror one |
| 00:39.46 | bedboi | holycow: they call it academia. |
| 00:39.56 | vallor | I can give them just the original url -- what is it? :) |
| 00:39.57 | holycow | actually i could dig that too |
| 00:40.12 | hrw | mickeyl: posting OpenMoko screenshots can be deadly |
| 00:40.27 | mickeyl | hrw: heh. too much load on your site? :D |
| 00:40.47 | hrw | mickeyl: there was moment when there was no site at all |
| 00:40.51 | mickeyl | wow |
| 00:41.11 | mickeyl | had a whole day of fighting w/ WLAN today |
| 00:41.16 | hrw | mickeyl: since midnight I got nearly 7000 views. |
| 00:41.23 | hrw | mickeyl: and its 2:42 here |
| 00:41.31 | mickeyl | i know, same timezone ;) |
| 00:41.36 | bedboi | hrw: what? |
| 00:41.40 | cesarb | mickeyl: fighting on a neo or not? ;-) |
| 00:41.45 | rwhitby | mickeyl: can I remove moko-autorev.inc from openmoko.conf and then bleeding edge developers just add it to local.conf? |
| 00:41.50 | bedboi | i'll +1 to your page views |
| 00:41.52 | hrw | mickeyl: normally I am getting less then 1000 per day |
| 00:42.19 | rwhitby | and we bump SVN revs in sane-srcrevs to indicate that a new version of an openmoko app is *intentionally* available for testing by the community |
| 00:42.45 | rwhitby | (see discussion in #oe about 11 hours ago) |
| 00:42.53 | cesarb | hrw: be glad you didn't get them on ashdotslay |
| 00:42.56 | hrw | mickeyl: I am also for removing it. nevermind that I added it there |
| 00:43.04 | mickeyl | cesarb: hehe, unfortunately not. I don't have the WiFi-enabled version yet. After changing my DSL router to an ADSL2+ one, I had to reconfigure my wlan infrastructure. |
| 00:43.23 | mickeyl | rwhitby: yeah, sounds reasonable. go for it |
| 00:43.33 | rwhitby | hrw: you were maintaining the status quo, which was appropriate for the period before we could discuss with OM core team |
| 00:43.39 | rwhitby | mickeyl: woohoo!!! |
| 00:44.30 | mickeyl | i will probably stop making bleeding edge builds available on the web as well |
| 00:44.35 | mickeyl | there's too much breakage |
| 00:44.46 | hrw | mickeyl: here I have cablemodem->router/AP->machines. you have other config? |
| 00:45.39 | rwhitby | ~praise mickeyl |
| 00:45.39 | apt | All hail mickeyl! |
| 00:45.44 | mickeyl | hrw: yeah. cablemodem/router -> fixed ETH machines | AP downstairs (WDS) | wireless machines -> AP upstairs (WDS) -> fixed ETH machines | wireless machines |
| 00:45.46 | rwhitby | ~worship mickeyl |
| 00:45.47 | apt | ACTION genuflects before mickeyl. "I'm not worthy!" |
| 00:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko _summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 00:47.36 | vallor | heh, that'll learn me -- tried to use the volume control on the mp3 player app -- woopsy, now it won't go back up... |
| 00:48.35 | abraxa_ | vallor: Not going up at all or not to the max? |
| 00:49.06 | cesarb | vallor: can't you just reload the alsa state? |
| 00:49.21 | mickeyl | fwiw, i spent the whole night on gstreamer. i understand a lot more now :) |
| 00:49.34 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: Oh? Anything worth mentioning to me? :) |
| 00:49.48 | vallor | abraxa_: it goes up, then moves back down when I let go |
| 00:49.53 | rwhitby | mickeyl: could you kick off a build based on the current sane-srcrevs as a baseline? |
| 00:50.01 | vallor | cesarb: I just loaded an alsactl state, didn't work |
| 00:50.25 | mickeyl | abraxa_: yeah. 32bit support in pulseaudio will be a lot of work. we better tackle mad. the fun thing is the mad plugin once worked w/ 16 bit (in the gstreamer 0.8 days), so we might be able to steal some code from that |
| 00:50.36 | mickeyl | i'm also 100% sure that we don't like dmix :D |
| 00:50.56 | abraxa_ | vallor: That's caused by the slider if you pull it up too high and the 'cursor' leaves the slide area - try raising it to 80% or so and it should stay |
| 00:51.04 | mickeyl | rwhitby: sure |
| 00:51.16 | mickeyl | let me push as well here... |
| 00:51.49 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: Very interesting. Makes me wonder why 16-bit support was removed in the first place |
| 00:52.03 | mickeyl | abraxa_: because hifi people complained about the quality |
| 00:52.09 | abraxa_ | lol? |
| 00:52.32 | mickeyl | well, they have a point. mad does a lot to extrackt clean 32 bit int and gstreamer just threw the 16 bits away, not even dithering :D |
| 00:52.40 | mickeyl | but for us, this would be perfect |
| 00:52.59 | mickeyl | so we want 16bit back :D |
| 00:53.10 | abraxa_ | Yeah but using mp3 and complaining about 16 bit not providing enough resolution? Ah well. |
| 00:53.32 | abraxa_ | And yeah, I'll look into that |
| 00:53.41 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:54.42 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:54.47 | mickeyl | hehe, right. there's a certain irony in that |
| 00:55.33 | tnb | anyone know about the vtable problems with the current source (icu problems)? |
| 00:55.34 | vallor | what about .flac? ;P |
| 00:55.50 | mickeyl | yeah flac is interesting |
| 00:56.01 | hrw | mickeyl: when Neo will get SID/MOD/S3M/XM player? |
| 00:56.02 | mickeyl | it's just that the numbers are not impressive enough to do work on that |
| 00:56.19 | cesarb | hrw: does mikmod work on it? |
| 00:56.22 | mickeyl | hrw: when i have time to dive back into application programming again |
| 00:56.27 | mickeyl | yes, mikmod runs |
| 00:56.33 | cesarb | hrw: because IIRC mikmod is split into a UI and a library... |
| 00:56.34 | roh | re |
| 00:56.37 | mickeyl | but a nice GUI-based player for tracking stuff would be nice |
| 00:56.38 | mickeyl | wb roh |
| 00:56.47 | abraxa_ | Isn't there a gstreamer plugin for modules, too? |
| 00:56.48 | cesarb | It should be easy to add a new UI on top of it |
| 00:57.00 | tnb | I tried to rebuild icu but that didn't help |
| 00:57.03 | mickeyl | abraxa_: yes, but gstreamer doesn't export the channel/sample/note info |
| 00:57.14 | mickeyl | that's why modplayers can provide a more rich interface |
| 00:57.18 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe3cdd00-15.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 00:57.25 | abraxa_ | Point taken :) |
| 00:57.41 | mickeyl | although there's probably not much of a difference when all you want is listen ;) |
| 00:58.07 | cesarb | mickeyl: just make it work with .zip files like mikmod does ;-) |
| 00:58.15 | tnb | undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_v0@CXXABI_1.3; did gcc version or option change tha requires rebuilding everything? |
| 00:58.15 | mickeyl | cesarb: :) |
| 00:58.20 | roh | hm... what was that about dmix? thats dead and dreprecated |
| 00:58.25 | roh | -r |
| 00:58.34 | mickeyl | roh: yes, that's what we said |
| 00:58.44 | mickeyl | tnb: news to me. changed your host system? |
| 00:59.18 | tnb | no, just did 'make update; make' -- used to build |
| 00:59.39 | tnb | (moko makefile) |
| 00:59.54 | vallor | wow, you can switch the thing to landscape mode :-o |
| 01:00.42 | mickeyl | vallor: :D |
| 01:00.54 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 01:01.43 | vallor | shoot, I was hoping it would make the kbd bigger |
| 01:01.59 | mickeyl | kbd font is hardcoded atm. :/ |
| 01:02.04 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z7567.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:02.08 | vallor | ay carumba |
| 01:02.11 | mickeyl | going to pester alphaone to fix kbd |
| 01:02.17 | mickeyl | he's going to visit me next week |
| 01:02.25 | mickeyl | we're having a two days moko hack fest |
| 01:02.29 | mickeyl | at my place |
| 01:02.37 | mickeyl | zecke will also be there |
| 01:02.57 | vallor | sounds swizzy :) |
| 01:02.57 | mickeyl | hmm... need to clean my room before they come :) |
| 01:03.11 | tnb | mickeyl: I'll clean out tmp/ and rebuild everything overnight and see what happens |
| 01:03.25 | mickeyl | tnb: good plan |
| 01:04.19 | hrw | mickeyl: which of your machines use linux.inc? |
| 01:04.38 | mickeyl | hrw: ezx and fic |
| 01:05.11 | mickeyl | yes, linux-openmoko is not commited yet. needs some more clean up, but i'm on it |
| 01:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko milo_ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-076-243-079.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:06.03 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:07.12 | *** join/#openmoko neclimdul (n=necro@66-100-227-55-dyndsl.oplink.net) |
| 01:07.20 | hrw | bye all |
| 01:08.36 | mickeyl | n8 hrw |
| 01:08.38 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 01:08.43 | mickeyl | what does sed -e '/CONFIG_AEABI/d' \ do? |
| 01:08.46 | mickeyl | i.e. the /d |
| 01:09.36 | hrw|gone | mickeyl: find and del? |
| 01:09.42 | cesarb | mickeyl: I'd guess it's the "delete" command to sed |
| 01:09.50 | Writchie | looks like it |
| 01:09.54 | cesarb | mickeyl: the prefix selects the lines, and the command does the act... |
| 01:09.55 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 01:10.01 | mickeyl | then i don't understand linux.inc :D |
| 01:10.05 | mickeyl | first it's added, then removed? |
| 01:10.19 | Writchie | isn't there a name for that ;) |
| 01:10.20 | mickeyl | aah |
| 01:10.24 | mickeyl | nevermind, got it |
| 01:10.40 | rwhitby | mickeyl: it should be: delete the line (irrespective of whether it is enabled or not), and then add a new line to enable or disable |
| 01:10.42 | mickeyl | we're sedding it out of the defconfig and concatenate to our .config |
| 01:10.47 | mickeyl | right |
| 01:11.38 | vallor | I can make the media player stutter by running alsamixer, then leaning on the right-arrow |
| 01:11.43 | roh | mickeyl about that svnrev/autorev stuff ive seen in the changelogs.. can you write 5 lines what that means for the people out there? |
| 01:11.47 | vallor | (or left arrow) |
| 01:11.54 | vallor | network interrupts confusing it? |
| 01:12.08 | Writchie | mickeyl: salvation |
| 01:12.09 | mickeyl | roh: sure. will do it tomorrow |
| 01:12.35 | rwhitby | roh: world peace |
| 01:12.50 | rwhitby | it's as simple as that ;-) |
| 01:12.55 | *** join/#openmoko mrcucumber (n=voorhees@wlan246-150.wireless.stolaf.edu) |
| 01:13.08 | mickeyl | well, it also means less testing and if i was cynical i would claim it means stagnation |
| 01:13.17 | mickeyl | (just to bring some counterarguments) |
| 01:13.20 | mrcucumber | any rummors about GTA02 release date? |
| 01:13.26 | roh | mickeyl super. anything important to keep in mind? ive seen that one line in conf/distro/openmoko.conf.. i have to remove the hash and then it builds trunk, elsewise it builds fixed svnrevs, right? |
| 01:13.49 | mickeyl | roh: yes, that's basically it. remove the # to get the old floating SRCDATE behaviour back |
| 01:13.50 | roh | mrcucumber when its done. |
| 01:13.53 | abraxa_ | vallor: gstreamer causes CPU load > 100% so the GUI responds very sluggishly |
| 01:14.07 | rwhitby | mickeyl: I think the drive to get access to new features mentioned in commits that CIA reports here will be enough to drive people to bump SRCREV |
| 01:14.08 | vallor | oh hmm |
| 01:14.16 | roh | mickeyl wonderful. |
| 01:14.16 | mickeyl | rwhitby: hopefully :) |
| 01:14.16 | mrcucumber | roh: hehe, I know, doesn't mean I can't look forward to it right? |
| 01:14.17 | Writchie | if you're after testing you can always release as many binaries as you want - if you want to multiply real development SRCREV should help do that a lot |
| 01:14.30 | roh | mrcucumber ;) |
| 01:14.45 | cesarb | abraxa_: just limit the networking to 10000 packets per second |
| 01:14.50 | mickeyl | at this point of time i think the 2d driver will be the hardest part |
| 01:15.01 | rwhitby | roh: as the comment says, I would suggest putting the line in local.conf so you don't accidentally check it back in |
| 01:15.01 | abraxa_ | cesarb: huh? |
| 01:15.25 | roh | rwhitby ah.. good idea. |
| 01:15.41 | mickeyl | Writchie: agreed |
| 01:15.55 | mrcucumber | roh: So still looks like october? |
| 01:16.31 | cesarb | abraxa_: http://blog.rlove.org/2007/08/those-dang-dpcs-clogging-mmcss.html |
| 01:17.07 | abraxa_ | cesarb: To be frank I'm not quite sure why you're showing me this |
| 01:17.18 | cesarb | abraxa_: it was an attempt at an obscure joke |
| 01:17.24 | cesarb | [22:13:53] <abraxa_> vallor: gstreamer causes CPU load > 100% so the GUI responds very sluggishly |
| 01:17.28 | roh | mrcucumber i dunno. as long as ive not got my preseries prototype its not even in reach |
| 01:17.42 | abraxa_ | cesarb: In that case I am guilty for not getting it ;) |
| 01:18.10 | mrcucumber | roh: yeah, as a college student I couldn't really afford to get the dev moddel. |
| 01:18.15 | cesarb | abraxa_: it's been discovered recently that windows vista limits the networking stack to 10000 packets per second while playing multimedia, to avoid stuttering |
| 01:18.39 | abraxa_ | cesarb: Oh! Okay, that makes a whole lot more sense now :) |
| 01:18.41 | cesarb | abraxa_: which is more than 100Mbit but way less than 1Gbit |
| 01:18.54 | cesarb | abraxa_: obviously, slashdot was all over it ;-) |
| 01:18.55 | abraxa_ | cesarb: Shows how important Vista is in this channel, hehe |
| 01:20.22 | cesarb | abraxa_: http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/08/21/1441240.shtml and http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2007/08/27/1833290.aspx and http://slashdot.org/articles/07/08/28/0256208.shtml |
| 01:20.48 | vallor | cesarb: does it limit packets, or interrupts? |
| 01:20.57 | cesarb | vallor: packets |
| 01:21.00 | vallor | blah |
| 01:21.16 | mickeyl | anyone knowing offhand how the kernel parses CMDLINE wrt. to double entries? will the first one or last one be significant? |
| 01:21.22 | cesarb | vallor: it has been experimentally determined (heh) that 10000 packets would avoid the stuttering |
| 01:21.30 | cesarb | mickeyl: I think both will |
| 01:21.47 | cesarb | mickeyl: the final effect would depend on the code for that particular option |
| 01:21.54 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 01:21.55 | mickeyl | that sucks |
| 01:21.59 | mickeyl | so it's unpredictable |
| 01:22.04 | mickeyl | i.e. when given two rootfs statements |
| 01:22.08 | cesarb | mickeyl: the neo itself already has two console= lines... |
| 01:22.15 | mickeyl | right |
| 01:22.39 | cesarb | mickeyl: two rootfs will probably use the last one, since the code probably can only deal with one and thus will overwrite (you mean root= right?) |
| 01:23.34 | mickeyl | rootfstype and root, yea |
| 01:24.50 | cesarb | vallor: "MMCSS’ glitch-resistant mechanisms were therefore extended to include throttling of network activity. It does so by issuing a command to the NDIS device driver, [...] that causes NDIS to “indicate”, or pass along, at most 10 packets per millisecond (10,000 packets per second)." -- Mark Russinovitch |
| 01:26.43 | vallor | cesarb: lol, I'm so glad I don't use that stuff |
| 01:27.16 | vallor | and you'll remember I mentioned Russinovitch before -- you'll see me flaming him on linux-kernel, if you go back far enough ('98?) |
| 01:27.46 | cesarb | vallor: the rumours I've read around say people are tending to leave Vista for XP |
| 01:28.15 | vallor | he's the character that said Linux didn't have threads, then had to backtrack on his site and say: oh, well, it may have "threads", but they don't act like NT threads, so I'm not going to call them "threads" |
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| 01:28.35 | cesarb | vallor: and the people around me seem to also use XP way more often than Vista (I think I only actually touched a box with Vista once, to show how to use the ssh setup I designed on putty to a coworker..) |
| 01:28.57 | vallor | I'm not touching Vista -- too much "contacting the mother ship" for my blood |
| 01:29.13 | cesarb | vallor: the first I heard of him was the Sony Rootkit thing, where he did a wonderful job, so I didn't had quite that negative image of him... |
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| 01:29.53 | cesarb | vallor: until this recent ridiculous "10000 packets per second stuff", where the tone on his blog was too accepting of such a bizarre decision |
| 01:30.33 | cesarb | vallor: XP already annoys me enough with its Windows Genuine Annoyance |
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| 01:30.46 | cesarb | vallor: the last good Windows version was 2000 |
| 01:30.56 | Writchie | actually OS/2 |
| 01:31.00 | cesarb | vallor: but the last Windows version I actually used at home was 3.1 |
| 01:31.10 | Writchie | NT beta 5 was fine for years |
| 01:31.24 | Writchie | NT 5 beta IIRC |
| 01:32.26 | Writchie | unfortunately you can't give it up in the consumer space when 95% of people use it. |
| 01:32.41 | cesarb | technil: my first box is from 92, I didn't even know linux existed back then |
| 01:32.42 | Writchie | ask apple how many windows itunes vs. mac itunes |
| 01:33.38 | vallor | http://uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9901.1/1243.html |
| 01:33.39 | cesarb | technil: I started using Linux only in 97, after wanting a real Unix so Emacs would actually multitask during compiles, unlike how it did on DJGPP |
| 01:33.40 | Writchie | cesarb: my first box was cp/m and microsoft supplies the M80 macro assembler and L80 linker |
| 01:33.44 | vallor | there's mark's response |
| 01:33.50 | Writchie | cesarb: last decent software ever to come out of M$ |
| 01:33.57 | cesarb | (ironically, after starting using linux, I completely abandoned emacs for vi) |
| 01:34.12 | bedboi | cesarb: how come? |
| 01:34.15 | vallor | btw, his case goes to show that PhD's don't always mean someone has their head screwed on straight ;P |
| 01:34.17 | bedboi | you miss the real coolness |
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| 01:35.25 | cesarb | bedboi: dunno why, it just happened |
| 01:35.35 | vallor | no!joe is the One True Editor!!!!!@!! |
| 01:35.38 | bedboi | it's a sad story indeed |
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| 01:35.44 | bedboi | vallor: don't even mention that. |
| 01:35.48 | vallor | ;P |
| 01:36.00 | cesarb | bedboi: the GEmacs/XEmacs split doesn't help (which one should I use? they are identical but very different...) |
| 01:36.03 | bedboi | vallor: btw it's a dangerous topic. talking about editors, languages and distros |
| 01:36.31 | bedboi | cesarb: that's why you have to use vim |
| 01:36.31 | bedboi | :) |
| 01:37.03 | bedboi | i'll stop, it is really a flame-prone discussion. |
| 01:37.03 | cesarb | bedboi: vim is what I use the most (both pure text-mode vim and gvim)... even when I have to use windows |
| 01:37.16 | cesarb | bedboi: it's the only way to avoid writing ":wq" by accident on notepad |
| 01:38.46 | cesarb | But yeah, how far has windows come in all this years... In the past, it was so obviously inferior to linux, it was laughable |
| 01:39.41 | cesarb | Nowadays you can compare both (it doesn't have 16-bit DOS as its base anymore, for instance!) |
| 01:41.07 | bedboi | i don't know quite anything about windows |
| 01:41.10 | cesarb | OTOH, in the past windows had something linux didn't: cool sounds and cute icons (see http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/The-Cool-Cam.aspx to understand why it's important) |
| 01:41.29 | vallor | btw, here was the guy's conclusion -- btw, this was in 1999, so he was definitely full of it: |
| 01:41.32 | vallor | Thus, there are a number of critical areas that must be addressed before |
| 01:41.32 | vallor | Linux can be considered to have a real (competitive) kernel-mode threads |
| 01:41.32 | vallor | implementation and a scalable SMP architecture. And until it has these |
| 01:41.32 | vallor | things Linux cannot compete in the enterprise with UNIX rivals or with |
| 01:41.32 | vallor | Window NT. |
| 01:41.42 | Writchie | internally XP and Vista is like thousands of chroots for different apps |
| 01:41.46 | vallor | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:41.51 | Writchie | with hidden foo |
| 01:43.22 | cesarb | vallor: he probably knew only about NT and "traditional" Unix, and didn't know enough about Linux (and yeah, by basing his conclusions on partial knowledge, in such a certain tone, he showed he was full of it) |
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| 01:44.44 | cesarb | vallor: I'm a bit the opposite... I know a bit about linux kernel internals (hey, I rewrote a NIC driver last year!), but nothing about windows kernel internals (other than IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL means bad hardware) |
| 01:46.03 | Writchie | OS2 threads were quite innovate at the time they were first introduced, compared to *nix's of the day |
| 01:46.14 | Writchie | and the rediculous fork |
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| 01:46.36 | Writchie | unfortunately the MS IBM OS2 wars set the industry back by 10 years |
| 01:46.44 | cesarb | vallor: which is why I want to learn how to program for windows... to be exposed to different programming paradigms (same reason I learned Haskell last year) |
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| 01:47.00 | vallor | Writchie: I gotta ask... are you related to "Dennis"? :) |
| 01:47.07 | cesarb | vallor: unfortunately, so far I failed to find a good "Win32 programming for Unix programmers" |
| 01:47.37 | Writchie | vollar: no |
| 01:47.53 | vallor | dang! You would have been an instance celeb ;P |
| 01:48.21 | Writchie | I am already a celebrity |
| 01:48.35 | cesarb | And their API seems to change completely every couple of years (now the recommended way is THIS way, oops now it's THAT way) |
| 01:48.39 | vallor | very cool :) |
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| 01:49.49 | Writchie | cesarb: even MS people don't know the prefered paradigm du jour |
| 01:52.27 | cesarb | Writchie: on my last job, I started reading a tiny bit on it... and found out that to OPEN a file _or directory_, you call a funcation called _CreateFile_... W T F |
| 01:52.44 | cesarb | Writchie: just that tiny bit was more than enough to make my head hurt |
| 01:52.52 | Writchie | you can open a file about 8 different ways |
| 01:53.20 | bedboi | ahaha, what about java then |
| 01:53.26 | Writchie | uggh |
| 01:53.28 | bedboi | you have 8bilion ways |
| 01:53.38 | Writchie | i'd take macro assembler over java |
| 01:53.40 | bedboi | just one for each extension. |
| 01:53.41 | mickeyl | g'night |
| 01:54.01 | Writchie | sleep tight mickey |
| 01:54.04 | cesarb | Writchie: for all its failures, Unix's chamaleon two/three-argument open() and two-argument creat() are a beautiful gem compared to win32's madness |
| 01:54.31 | technil | hey all, anyone know who to contact at fic about plans for them to approve the 850 band operation in the US? |
| 01:54.42 | technil | (for the neo 1973) |
| 01:54.45 | Writchie | it wasn't really madness in the original API because it gave you a lot of IOCTL like options |
| 01:55.03 | Writchie | however, i agree that simplicity is worth more. |
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| 01:55.24 | Writchie | but i wouldn't call pselect() that elegant |
| 01:55.43 | cesarb | Writchie: ioctl is the worst Unix API wart, and even it is elegant compared to the 30+-argument functions I've seen win32 use |
| 01:55.57 | Writchie | multi-threaded programming was much easier originally on OS/2 which became NT which became XP |
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| 01:56.48 | Writchie | i still remember puking the first time I encounter fork() |
| 01:57.07 | Writchie | one look and goodbye |
| 01:57.07 | cesarb | Writchie: nah, fork() is cute... vfork() is the ugly one |
| 01:57.20 | Writchie | it's a cute trick |
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| 01:57.39 | Writchie | but incredible pig |
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| 01:58.13 | cw666 | how can i get at the console on the neo when i mux the gsm module out? |
| 01:58.21 | cw666 | the debug board has no rs-232 port (i assumed it would) |
| 01:58.29 | Writchie | unfortunately, it's hard to evaluate anything except in the context of history at the time |
| 01:58.29 | vallor | it is a happy think in Linux, as it uses copy-on-write pages |
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| 01:58.51 | cesarb | cw666: the debug board has a serial and a jtag port, both connected to the ftdi chip |
| 01:59.02 | Writchie | cw666: the debug board has usb - serial |
| 01:59.04 | cesarb | cw666: which is on the usb |
| 01:59.24 | cesarb | cw666: so, you can get to both (serial and jtag) via the usb on the debug board |
| 01:59.32 | Writchie | vallor: fork and threads in linux are now fine - but it wasn't always that way |
| 01:59.49 | Writchie | copy on write bailed out fork |
| 02:00.03 | cesarb | vallor: copy-on-write was implemented by linus way back on the 0.x days... |
| 02:00.15 | cw666 | oh ok, that makes sense ... does usbnet also work? |
| 02:00.28 | roh | cw666 the debug board itself has a serial on cmos 3.3V levels. |
| 02:00.32 | cesarb | vallor: just find the one where it says he can now use several bash instances ;-) |
| 02:00.49 | cw666 | roh: access to the uart on the samsung chip via any sane means is fine, that sounds usable |
| 02:00.51 | roh | sudo modprobe ftdi_sio vendor=0x1457 product=0x5118 |
| 02:01.01 | roh | then plug the debug board. |
| 02:01.05 | cesarb | cw666: you should plug the neo's usb to the debug board's builtin hub, and then you can get to the neo's normal usb networking |
| 02:01.15 | cw666 | roh: ftdi_sio is in mainline? |
| 02:01.17 | roh | then it generates /dev/ttyUSB0 and USB1 |
| 02:01.21 | roh | cw666 japp |
| 02:01.25 | cw666 | okies, ill try that later |
| 02:01.52 | roh | cw666 the first one vanishes as soon as openocd starts and claims the hardware for the jtag, the second should be your serial console |
| 02:01.55 | cw666 | i have to find my torque thangs to opeen the neo up |
| 02:01.59 | cesarb | cw666: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board has _all_ the instructions |
| 02:02.12 | cw666 | thanks |
| 02:03.53 | cesarb | cw666: and you _must_ read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 _before_ opening the neo, since there are a couple of important tricks |
| 02:04.09 | cesarb | cw666: you must use the guitar pick correctly so as to not break the pins, for instance |
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| 02:06.06 | Writchie | cesarb: I find my thumb nail works better than the pick |
| 02:06.19 | Writchie | but my son uses the pick np |
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| 02:07.04 | cesarb | Writchie: I didn't open mine yet... didn't see the need, and I'm sort of scared of a very small piece of paper with a colored cross in the middle |
| 02:07.34 | Writchie | cesarb: it voids the 14 day warrantee ;) |
| 02:08.38 | Writchie | cesarb: at least its not a skull and crossbones |
| 02:08.42 | cesarb | Writchie: lol |
| 02:08.53 | rwhitby | heh, neither of my neos have the screws in them, cause they get opened up too often |
| 02:09.16 | Writchie | screws are for lusers |
| 02:09.53 | cesarb | rwhitby: yeah, right, and then your neo _pops open in the middle_ (you alreayd said so in the wiki) |
| 02:09.57 | Writchie | anyway, we need to carry a lead acid battery to be portable at the moment |
| 02:10.00 | cesarb | rwhitby: the screws are there for a reason |
| 02:11.59 | Writchie | verizon going to court to block 700mhz open network - spends $2B advertising $1B lobbying and $2 billion on layers - how about spending some of that on the freakin network |
| 02:12.12 | Writchie | s/layer/lawyers/ |
| 02:13.17 | cesarb | Writchie: "Change is dangerous" -- The Oracle |
| 02:13.22 | Writchie | i'm begining to root for the patent troll NTP cleaning their clock |
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| 02:15.19 | cesarb | "The Architect: You played a very dangerous game." "The Oracle: Change always is." |
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| 02:16.41 | cesarb | Writchie: guess I'll have to find someone with the DVDs, my memory of the movies seems to be getting degraded |
| 02:17.44 | Writchie | i got the HDDVD but the disk of the final was bad |
| 02:17.53 | Writchie | big crack thru the HDDVD |
| 02:18.19 | cesarb | however, http://xkcd.com/307/ |
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| 02:19.20 | cesarb | Writchie: well, I'm in a bit of the dark ages... just last month we bought our first DVD player, and I've never viewed a real DVD on my computer (which has had a DVD drive since some years ago) |
| 02:20.58 | Writchie | cesarb: i'm the opposite, i'm on my 4th plasma, 2nd HDDVD with a library of prolly 1000 vcd's |
| 02:21.49 | Writchie | personally, i like vcd's shot in the theatre the best - good laughs from the crowd |
| 02:22.55 | cesarb | Writchie: plasma... lol... we bought our first widescreen LCD TV this year, before that we used a conventional non-flatscreen one (and, yeah, my main monitor _is_ a flat-screen 1600x1200 17" lead-like monitor) |
| 02:23.23 | Writchie | my first plasma is now 10 years old |
| 02:23.28 | Writchie | still working fine |
| 02:23.38 | cesarb | Writchie: wow... 10 years ago, plasma TVs were very expensive |
| 02:23.45 | Writchie | $10K |
| 02:23.58 | Writchie | couldn't resist |
| 02:24.00 | cesarb | Writchie: ouch. You could buy a car with that :P |
| 02:24.50 | bedboi | damn i have makefile problem. I have a tree similar to A/1 A/2 B/3 B/4 ... The problem is that A/2 relies on B/3 |
| 02:25.05 | bedboi | btw i don't want to put all in one directory |
| 02:25.50 | cesarb | bedboi: the traditional solution is to enforce ordering of the subdirectories in the base makefile |
| 02:26.09 | Writchie | cesarb: i just returned a defective 42" plasma whose 3 year warrantee was just up and got a 52" in its place for $0 |
| 02:26.30 | cesarb | bedboi: i.e. for every target, it calls the subdirectories in a specific order |
| 02:26.42 | cesarb | bedboi: the non-traditional solution is to have a single makefile at the root ;-) |
| 02:27.03 | bedboi | cesarb: i have the ordering |
| 02:27.11 | bedboi | btw it's impossible... |
| 02:27.30 | Writchie | cesarb: river TAM beats up everyone - I can't wait |
| 02:27.33 | cesarb | Writchie: ours is a 32" IIRC |
| 02:27.50 | bedboi | cedric: i can't specify A/1 B/3 A/2 B/4 |
| 02:28.06 | Writchie | actually, i think XVGA in the classes is the best picture |
| 02:28.20 | Writchie | i've been waiting 10 years since I saw them in the lab |
| 02:28.24 | bedboi | src/Makefile.am:1: directory should not contain `/' |
| 02:28.32 | cesarb | Writchie: the problem is that electronics (especially when imported) tend to be absurdly expensive here in .br (sometimes it gets about 3x the price!) |
| 02:28.49 | Writchie | yup |
| 02:29.02 | Writchie | you need to be in Asia |
| 02:29.24 | cesarb | Writchie: ah, automake... you have to use the ordering then (and you will need one makefile in A and one in B, calling _their_ subdirectories in order) |
| 02:29.26 | Writchie | china is much more advanced than US |
| 02:31.50 | bedboi | cesarb: i'm doing the ordering. The problem is that i have cross references between A/ and B/ |
| 02:31.56 | cesarb | lol, and our DVD player/recorder just CRASHED... and we had to reboot it :D |
| 02:32.01 | bedboi | A needs B and B needs A |
| 02:36.02 | cesarb | bedboi: cyclic dependencies are usually signs of a design problem somewhere... |
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| 02:40.22 | hozer | u |
| 02:40.26 | hozer | tokesn |
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| 02:45.07 | linux_galore | the icon on the Dial Button really needs to be a bit bigger http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9481/dialer1pq5.png |
| 02:46.51 | bedboi | cesarb: is not that are cyclic dependencies |
| 02:47.12 | bedboi | it's just a matter of organization of the code |
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| 03:03.25 | cesarb | great, the DVD recorder crash managed to somehow corrupt the DVD-RW, and now the recorder thinks it's empty and asks if we want to format... |
| 03:10.46 | Writchie | cesarb: did you see this one -> http://xkcd.com/117/ |
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| 03:36.11 | linux_galore | Im starting to prefer the Poko UI over the OM version |
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| 03:45.35 | linux_galore | not Poko I meant Poky |
| 03:46.03 | linux_galore | http://www.pokylinux.org |
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| 04:46.01 | blindcoder | moin |
| 04:46.22 | cw666 | evenin' |
| 04:47.54 | CM | Nice |
| 04:48.20 | CM | rwhitby: The problem I had with emotion seems to be a libpng error on my 64 bit: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2992 |
| 04:48.25 | rwhitby | and free42 is in the official feed now |
| 04:49.54 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:51.21 | CM | And yes, there should be some celebration after those two earlier commits.. ;) |
| 04:56.50 | bedboi | wtf, i broken my svn |
| 04:58.07 | bedboi | do anyone of you knows how to change the revision number to some files? |
| 04:58.24 | bedboi | s/do// |
| 04:59.36 | bedboi | damn |
| 05:06.40 | cw666 | rwhitby: this morning it came right for me too |
| 05:06.47 | cw666 | rwhitby: well, builds anyhow |
| 05:06.51 | cw666 | gsmd is still cancerous |
| 05:07.10 | rwhitby | console remove and restart in matchbox session still works for me |
| 05:09.18 | cw666 | you mean to avoid the serial/uart hang? |
| 05:09.24 | cw666 | i have a work around for that |
| 05:09.35 | cw666 | but gsmd still needs to be killed and restarted for me |
| 05:09.38 | cw666 | which means restarting x |
| 05:09.44 | cw666 | (becaues otherwise the dialer wont talk to it) |
| 05:10.17 | rwhitby | cw666: gmsd restart in /etc/matchbox/session once at boot works for me |
| 05:11.18 | cw666 | rwhitby: ah right, sorta a hack though |
| 05:11.32 | cw666 | i started looking at gsmd and am not sure how best to even attack it |
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| 05:39.20 | linux_galore | apt: mv oldfile newfile |
| 05:40.06 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-47-74.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 05:40.28 | linux_galore | lol @ dialup |
| 05:42.56 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 05:43.04 | bluelightning | actually I'm on DSL, but my stupid ISP allocates me to the dialup IP range for some reason |
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| 06:00.01 | weez | could anyone enlighten me as to what the lowlevel foo .... bin files are? |
| 06:02.49 | tuukkah | they contain initialization code so you can boot from RAM, without a bootloader. see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Using_JTAG_to_boot_from_RAM |
| 06:03.34 | weez | tuukkah: thanks |
| 06:09.45 | roh | to be fair.. lowlevel-foo is actually named very exact after what it does ;) |
| 06:11.14 | roh | so... starting a clean build... |
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| 07:06.18 | togs | With the dialer, is there any way yet to dial whilst in a call - i.e., interacting with voice system , needing to send a "1", etc. |
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| 08:01.07 | notuniq | i love the feedreader |
| 08:05.16 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-91-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 08:22.35 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:24.03 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@ag-d04.rhi.hi.is) |
| 08:29.41 | hhf423 | goooood morning openmoko! |
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| 08:35.11 | hhf423 | doh, 200MHz is just not enough |
| 08:35.35 | XorA | hhf423: 640k and 14Mhz is enough for anyone, the big man said so |
| 08:36.09 | hhf423 | hrhrhr |
| 08:36.23 | rwhitby | this should be a good weekend for openmoko builds |
| 08:36.26 | hhf423 | yes, but back then we were coding in assembler |
| 08:36.34 | hhf423 | rwhitby: any particular reason? |
| 08:37.03 | rwhitby | things should be stable now - no more floating svn versions |
| 08:39.16 | hhf423 | sound good |
| 08:39.32 | hhf423 | any news/rumors on gsmd btw? |
| 08:39.33 | DukeOfURL | is anyone else getting '+CME ERROR: 32' from gsmd? |
| 08:39.35 | XorA | gah, I shall have to find new ways to rock the boat :_) |
| 08:40.03 | DukeOfURL | what were the old rumors? |
| 08:40.33 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: 32 could mean you are trying to roam but not allowed |
| 08:40.56 | DukeOfURL | can't register with T-Mobile |
| 08:41.12 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: I have only seen 13 |
| 08:41.21 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: wrong pin? |
| 08:41.36 | DukeOfURL | no pin. it's a prepaid card. |
| 08:42.04 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: the old rumors on gsmd were that openmoko/fic wanted to put someone on it. but no date, nothing |
| 08:42.11 | emdete | DukeOfURL: did you try at-commands yourself? |
| 08:42.19 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: well, here prepaid SIMs also have PINs |
| 08:42.33 | DukeOfURL | yes, at commands fail--libgsmd-tool hangs |
| 08:43.04 | DukeOfURL | the SIM in a Samsung phone doesn't ask for a pin |
| 08:43.14 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: did you do the change to boot parameters? bootargs_base? |
| 08:43.21 | DukeOfURL | yes |
| 08:43.38 | emdete | DukeOfURL: what does at+cpin? say? |
| 08:43.44 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 08:43.50 | Placid | morning |
| 08:44.44 | hrw | DukeOfURL: AT+CMEE=2 enable better error messages |
| 08:45.09 | hrw | my CME ERROR table end on 31 ;( |
| 08:46.09 | DukeOfURL | at+cpin? says '+CPIN: READY' |
| 08:46.40 | hhf423 | all errorcodes here: http://www.activexperts.com/activsms/sms/gsmerrorcodes/ |
| 08:47.10 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: maybe you need to specifically register with your operator? |
| 08:48.20 | DukeOfURL | I have been able to make calls in the past (with libgsmd-tool) |
| 08:48.53 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 08:49.22 | hhf423 | has anyone seen this when starting mediaplayer2? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/6ee9a47478e2ee6aaea5b91b88e5a933.png |
| 08:50.31 | hhf423 | how do I start screen? |
| 08:51.15 | hhf423 | ahh |
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| 09:02.07 | Any_Key | morning all |
| 09:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 09:02.18 | *** part/#openmoko thseiler (n=Thomas@195.176.215.22) |
| 09:03.44 | hhf423 | morning |
| 09:05.21 | *** join/#openmoko hadara_ (i=hadara@2001:7d0:0:1:2d0:b7ff:feb7:f667) |
| 09:05.33 | Any_Key | I had a problem with flashing qemu-local, failing at nand write.jffs2 0x31000000 rootfs 0x2794000, but increasing time wait from 120 to 300, just made it work. Anybody have seen it before? |
| 09:06.05 | Any_Key | in flash.sh |
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| 09:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley (n=bmidgley@32-111.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr) |
| 09:11.24 | roh | Any_Key have a slow computer? |
| 09:12.43 | Any_Key | p4 2.40GHz |
| 09:12.53 | roh | hm.. should do |
| 09:13.20 | Any_Key | 1266M of RAM |
| 09:13.26 | Any_Key | strange |
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| 09:21.17 | Any_Key | roh, until it continues to work, little hacks acceptable |
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| 09:28.05 | notuniq | is there any info on sim card compatability? |
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| 09:31.40 | DukeOfURL | I was able to make one call--the call was disconnected after a few seconds. |
| 09:32.00 | DukeOfURL | Now I'm not getting any audio, not even from key presses. |
| 09:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko shahn_ (n=shahn@i59F73959.versanet.de) |
| 09:34.50 | XorA | alsactl -f /etc/alsa/stereoout.state restore |
| 09:35.22 | hrw | XorA: did you played FullHD movies already? (on desktop) |
| 09:35.37 | XorA | hrw: FullHD? |
| 09:36.24 | hrw | 1920x1080 |
| 09:36.31 | XorA | hrw: yeah |
| 09:36.44 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br) |
| 09:36.46 | XorA | hrw: although my monitor is only 1024x768 |
| 09:38.03 | XorA | if I remeber right I played my first HD movie on an Athlon 1Ghz at approx 2fps |
| 09:38.11 | hrw | mplayer chokes here - output to 1680x1050 |
| 09:38.21 | XorA | hrw: which codec? |
| 09:38.25 | hrw | xine player (kaffeine) lack sound |
| 09:38.30 | hrw | XorA: wmv9 ;( |
| 09:38.41 | XorA | hrw: yeah, that one doesnt work well |
| 09:38.57 | XorA | hrw: h264 plays nice if your gfx card can handle it |
| 09:39.09 | XorA | none of that ATI junk |
| 09:39.18 | hrw | VIDEO: [WMV3] 1920x1080 24bpp 1000.000 fps 8384.0 kbps (1023.4 kbyte/s) |
| 09:39.46 | hrw | ops 3 not 9 |
| 09:40.49 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.154.6.250) |
| 09:43.31 | XorA | VIDEO: [WMV3] 1920x1080 24bpp 23.976 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s) plays here |
| 09:43.46 | XorA | Selected video codec: [ffwmv3] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg M$ WMV3/WMV9) |
| 09:46.08 | kayon | hhf423: I get the same gstreamer error as you (Resource busy or not available) on starting mediaplayer. |
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| 09:48.56 | XorA | hrw: nice trailers site for testing :-) http://www.drfoster.f2s.com/trailers_hd-dvd.shtml |
| 09:50.21 | abraxa_ | kayon: Try killing pulseaudio |
| 09:53.35 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:53.55 | Linux_Galore | now this is what the OM keypad should look like http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/09/%5B1065%5Dsvsip.png |
| 09:53.57 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (i=chatzill@nat/ibm/x-ebd83ebd919033bf) |
| 09:54.24 | kayon | abraxa_: That fixed the error. Music is apparently playing, but no sound. Playing with alsactl to see if that's the problem, although ogg123 plays the same file just fine. |
| 09:54.47 | tuukkah | are we missing gstreamer sink for pulseaudio or is mediaplayer just not using it? |
| 09:55.19 | Linux_Galore | thats the new VoIP setup hacked onto the Nitendo DS by a user |
| 09:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone_at_wor (i=5512ea02@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-7113b3ba1dd229a7) |
| 09:55.39 | *** join/#openmoko hadara (i=hadara@2001:7d0:0:1:2d0:b7ff:feb7:f667) |
| 09:55.50 | tuukkah | there also seems to be something to make alsa apps go through pulseaudio |
| 09:56.11 | Ghiottone_at_wor | hi all |
| 09:56.26 | shahn_ | hi all, from me too |
| 09:57.09 | shahn_ | i have problems building uboot for my x86 |
| 09:57.33 | shahn_ | error message is: hello_world.c:0: error: bad value (armv4) for -march= switch |
| 09:57.42 | shahn_ | and similar... |
| 09:58.04 | shahn_ | using mokomakefile and the wiki page for xephyr |
| 09:58.35 | shahn_ | any ideas? |
| 09:59.36 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 10:00.43 | abraxa_ | kayon: Try restarting pulseaudio then? |
| 10:01.29 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: The media player is currently tied to gstreamer's alsasink in an effort to try reducing CPU usage but the real culprit is something else - it'll get fixed asap :) |
| 10:01.41 | Ghiottone|work | shahn_ shouldn't that value be armv4t ? |
| 10:02.19 | shahn_ | honestly, i have no idea. |
| 10:02.47 | tuukkah | abraxa_, but pulseaudio is reserving the alsa sound device? |
| 10:02.51 | shahn_ | i just blindly followed the instructions |
| 10:03.17 | tuukkah | shahn_, also why do you need uboot - a bootloader - on your desktop computer? |
| 10:03.27 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Yeah, lemme revert the change and commit to make the media player cooperate better while the real fix gets worked on |
| 10:03.41 | shahn_ | yes, that came to my mind too |
| 10:04.00 | tuukkah | abraxa_, what would the real fix look like? |
| 10:04.02 | shahn_ | so how can i disable uboot? |
| 10:04.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03abraxa * r2966 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/src/playback.c: PulseAudio isn't the culprit so let's not force alsasink anymore - real fix comes later |
| 10:04.44 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 10:05.34 | tuukkah | shahn_, i don't think openmoko-devel-image contains ubuut |
| 10:05.39 | tuukkah | s/uu/oo/ |
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| 10:06.17 | tuukkah | then again, i don't know about openmoko on x86 |
| 10:06.18 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: libgstmad outputs the samples 32-bit int while PulseAudio only accepts 16-bit int, so conversion/resampling takes place that bogs down the CPU |
| 10:06.52 | shahn_ | well, it tries to compile "packages/uboot/uboot-openmoko_1.2.0+gitf3402..." |
| 10:07.07 | shahn_ | with make openmoko-devel-image |
| 10:09.57 | tuukkah | abraxa_, so either libgstmad would learn to output with precision more suitable for an embedded device or the extra bits need to be ignored at some point? |
| 10:10.06 | Ghiottone|work | shahn_ try posting the last output lines on pastebin |
| 10:10.26 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Exactly, and patching libgstmad seems the easiest way so I'm looking into how to do that |
| 10:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 10:10.46 | shahn_ | ok |
| 10:11.25 | tuukkah | abraxa_, cool |
| 10:13.02 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@32-111.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr) |
| 10:13.05 | tuukkah | i'm starting to see this dbus stuff could really work in making python programs more feasible on the phone |
| 10:13.56 | tuukkah | for example, if the media player can be controlled via dbus |
| 10:14.21 | shahn_ | Ghiottone|work: http://pastebin.com/d80f0fc1 |
| 10:14.38 | tuukkah | although for video, we'd also need a way to plug the video back to the pygtk window |
| 10:15.18 | tuukkah | i never learned to use the plug system in gtk |
| 10:16.03 | tuukkah | "Together with gtk.Socket, gtk.Plug provides the ability to embed widgets from one process into another process in a fashion that is transparent to the user." |
| 10:16.11 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Considering that gta01 can't even get "good" video performance with pure mplayer I doubt getting gtk/python involved will make it any better ;x |
| 10:17.28 | tuukkah | abraxa_, it should happen like browser plugins work so that the video player talks directly to X and the gui is there just to call the player to start and stop |
| 10:17.56 | tuukkah | so i hope it wouldn't make it any worse either |
| 10:18.44 | abraxa_ | Hmm, I'm not sure if that's feasible either cause that would mean we can only switch between "gui+no video" and "fullscreen" |
| 10:20.47 | tuukkah | abraxa_, no no. you know how plugging makes the video appear as a part of a web page in firefox? the same thing: a window of one program becomes a widget of another |
| 10:21.50 | Ghiottone|work | shahn_ try revising the local.conf file. I've seen a i486 but maybe there should be i686. Apart from this, I don't have any other advice as I have never tried to build the image for x86, sorry |
| 10:22.12 | abraxa_ | Ah, I misunderstood you then - I thought you meant "the video player" as in "application XYZ that runs in a separate process and gets commanded through pipes or d-bus" |
| 10:22.19 | tuukkah | i should try to do it on my laptop first with pygtk+mplayer and if it works like i think it works then it'll work on neo too. and then to get a nicer programming interface we would use mediaplayer dbus service instead of mplayer |
| 10:22.20 | shahn_ | yeah, thanks |
| 10:23.05 | tuukkah | abraxa_, i thought that's how mplayer plugin for firefox works |
| 10:23.12 | shahn_ | well, local.conf says BUILD_ARCH = "i686" |
| 10:23.20 | tuukkah | XorA, just as a simple start |
| 10:23.21 | shahn_ | thanks anyway... |
| 10:23.37 | ScaredyCat | what's the uickest simplest way to rebuild libgsmd-tool ... ? |
| 10:24.03 | XorA | tuukkah: do it right from the start, if gstreamer is used there is at least a chance we will get wmv support :-) |
| 10:24.27 | XorA | tuukkah: and mplayer is a nice player, but a horrible monolithic lump for embedded systems |
| 10:24.31 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: make rebuild-package-libgsmd-tool if you use the makefile |
| 10:24.49 | Ghiottone|work | scaredycat . /setup-env; cd build; bitbake -i |
| 10:25.17 | tuukkah | XorA, just a sec, i hope :-) |
| 10:25.27 | Ghiottone|work | ScaredyCat: this will keep you in bitbake interactive shell. launch rebuild libgsmd-tool every time you need |
| 10:25.31 | abraxa_ | XorA: Unfortunately no one has tested video playback performance using gstreamer yet, so it seems mplayer is the reference... |
| 10:25.52 | XorA | abraxa_: with gst-ffmpeg it would be using the same codecs as mplayer anyway |
| 10:25.57 | Ghiottone|work | ScaredyCat: this will skip the reparse time after the first rebuild |
| 10:26.02 | ScaredyCat | the problem is bitbake doesn't know about it |
| 10:26.02 | mickeyl | morning guys |
| 10:26.07 | abraxa_ | Hiho Mickey :) |
| 10:26.16 | Ghiottone|work | hi mickey |
| 10:26.24 | mickeyl | where are the gllin experts? |
| 10:26.32 | XorA | yo mickeyl |
| 10:26.34 | abraxa_ | XorA: It does? Awesome - I hope the ffmpeg plugin lets us define frame-dropping modes, too |
| 10:26.48 | ScaredyCat | No providers of build target libgsmd-tool |
| 10:27.25 | mickeyl | Elrond: ping |
| 10:28.45 | Ghiottone|work | ScaredyCat: what about libgsm? |
| 10:28.54 | XorA | SpeedEvil: wakey wakey, talk to mickeyl |
| 10:29.16 | mickeyl | i need some guidance what we need re. eabi gps |
| 10:29.26 | mickeyl | i have a bunch of files here, but no idea how they connect :D |
| 10:29.54 | XorA | mickeyl: check that is doesnt SUID root and follow symlinks otherwise gllin is a secuity flaw :-) |
| 10:29.59 | ScaredyCat | that doesn't appear to build libgsmd-tool ... |
| 10:30.30 | mickeyl | libgsmd-tool is a subpackage, not a providee |
| 10:30.51 | ScaredyCat | so you cna't build it on its onw |
| 10:30.53 | ScaredyCat | own? |
| 10:30.56 | mickeyl | right |
| 10:30.58 | mickeyl | bitbake libgsmd |
| 10:31.03 | mickeyl | will build both |
| 10:34.05 | Ghiottone|work | did someone look ad the bootchart I put on the wiki? |
| 10:36.16 | mickeyl | hmm, k, i'll try to get some gps guys later |
| 10:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass_ (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 10:51.12 | ScaredyCat | http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=42293 |
| 10:55.01 | rwhitby | Ghiottone|work: url? |
| 10:55.05 | *** join/#openmoko agui (n=GuiyongZ@222.190.111.98) |
| 10:55.09 | CM | ScaredyCat: I saw that one. :) Looks like something every bitbake user could need. ;) |
| 10:55.18 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 10:56.02 | jpcass | rwhitby: quick question re mokomakefile: we svn co all svn.openmoko.org - how does this get used by openembedded/bitbake? |
| 10:56.19 | jpcass | i am seeing bitbake check out individual applications from openmoko.org when it needs to ... |
| 10:56.23 | rwhitby | jpcass: it doesn't |
| 10:56.37 | rwhitby | some of it is used by the qemu targets |
| 10:56.38 | jpcass | rwhitby: ah. so why are we checking it out then? |
| 10:56.56 | rwhitby | cause that's the way it was in the original build instructions that mokomakefile automated |
| 10:57.08 | rwhitby | and I haven't got around to improving it yet |
| 10:57.24 | rwhitby | it's also nice to peek inside the developer directories ;-) |
| 10:57.43 | jpcass | rwhitby: ok, good to know - thanks! (agreed ;-) ) |
| 10:58.00 | Ghiottone|work | rwhitby: bottom of my user page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Alessandro |
| 10:59.55 | rwhitby | so ldconfig and pulseaudio are the main offenders |
| 11:00.02 | Ghiottone|work | rwhitby: I have been thinking about the changes to mokomakefile to checkout trunk instead of all the repo. And I think that the best thing should be to clobber openmoko and rerun setup if an incorrect checkout is detected |
| 11:00.12 | *** join/#openmoko agui (n=GuiyongZ@222.190.111.98) |
| 11:00.28 | rwhitby | Ghiottone|work: yeah, that's probably the only way - we'll need to clobber build/qemu too |
| 11:03.01 | Ghiottone|work | rwhitby: ok. what should be the best place to put that check? |
| 11:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko hadara_ (i=hadara@2001:7d0:0:1:2d0:b7ff:feb7:f667) |
| 11:09.04 | rwhitby | Ghiottone|work: in check-generation |
| 11:16.17 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@130.84-48-53.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:18.49 | kristian-m | mickey|bbiab i'll meet telmich - the author of cinit - this weekend. do you think a different init-system would make it into OE? |
| 11:21.06 | tuukkah | rwhitby, have you thought of having in MokoMakefile targets like make build PACKAGE=SMSTool? |
| 11:21.42 | rwhitby | we have make (build|rebuild|clean)-package-foo |
| 11:21.56 | mickey|bbiab | kristian-m: 100% sure on that. the OE team would love to support multiple init systems. OM is currently thinking upstart is the best candidate, but I'd welcome more inputl. |
| 11:22.25 | jpcass | upstart is the ubuntu init, isnt it? seems like a good one, event-based... |
| 11:22.30 | tuukkah | rwhitby, oh ok, they are there like that |
| 11:23.17 | rwhitby | tuukkah: I do it that way so you can use them as dependencies and build more than one with a single make invocation |
| 11:23.31 | tuukkah | rwhitby, i see. nice |
| 11:23.57 | kristian-m | mickey|bbiab great i'll keep you informed then |
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| 11:27.33 | roh | jpcass japp. just not very usable documented yet |
| 11:28.47 | roh | yay... |
| 11:28.49 | roh | real 197m25.465s |
| 11:28.49 | roh | user 291m23.985s |
| 11:28.49 | roh | sys 66m1.068s |
| 11:29.06 | roh | it built though.. in record time |
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| 11:36.02 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 11:36.27 | PBeck | hi |
| 11:40.14 | *** join/#openmoko RalphEichelberge (n=openmoko@gateway.tourist-mobile.com) |
| 11:40.38 | hrw | PBeck: I do not want gta02 currently |
| 11:41.00 | PBeck | hrw: why? |
| 11:41.30 | hrw | PBeck: lack of time for it and gta02 is not yet finished |
| 11:41.53 | hrw | so what use I will make of gta02v2 when final-send-to-devs will be gta02v5? |
| 11:41.57 | hrw | for example |
| 11:42.08 | PBeck | hrw: of course when it is finished :P |
| 11:42.18 | PBeck | hrw: i dont want a gta02 with bugs :P |
| 11:43.09 | PBeck | hrw: we will see, when gta02 is ready |
| 11:43.15 | blindcoder | and I agree, a bugged phone is Bad :-) |
| 11:45.22 | tuukkah | anyone got a nice example video file for playing on the neo? |
| 11:46.15 | roh | hrw the same i will do with my gta01bv02 when i find the time.. build a waterproof device for playing mp3 when i'm showering |
| 11:46.26 | *** join/#openmoko hadara (i=hadara@2001:7d0:0:1:2d0:b7ff:feb7:f667) |
| 11:46.26 | hrw | tuukkah: http://www.drfoster.f2s.com/trailers_hd-dvd.shtml - grab something |
| 11:46.51 | tuukkah | ha ha =) |
| 11:47.45 | tuukkah | the play button in out gtk theme is localized for rtl cultures =) |
| 11:49.57 | RalphEichelberge | well guys - I finally completed my openmoko-develop-image |
| 11:50.13 | RalphEichelberge | now i cant find the flash image |
| 11:50.27 | RalphEichelberge | could you tell me where it is? |
| 11:52.10 | cindy | find OpenMokoDirectory -name *.jffs2 -print |
| 11:52.38 | cindy | build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01 |
| 11:52.59 | hrw | someone here use 'Full PM' mode? |
| 11:53.34 | cindy | the above was in response to RalphEichelberge |
| 11:54.03 | RalphEichelberge | thx cindy |
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| 11:55.14 | tuukkah | rwhitby, BUILD_ALL_DEPS doesn't seem to exist anymore: bitbake doesn't know about it and it's not used anywhere |
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| 12:01.21 | sunix | it seems that after a sleep, neo can't receive and make any call ... does that happen to someone ? |
| 12:02.27 | rwhitby | tuukkah: looks like do_build[recrdeptask] = "do_build" in meta.bbclass replaces it |
| 12:03.00 | rwhitby | RalphEichelberge: what was the missing step which enabled you to complete the build after so many days? |
| 12:03.26 | RalphEichelberge | I just did a make update again |
| 12:03.31 | tuukkah | rwhitby, if i wanted to do that when i run "bitbake mplayer", could i somehow include that in the command line? |
| 12:03.51 | rwhitby | tuukkah: I have no idea, you would need to ask a bitbake expert. |
| 12:04.12 | tuukkah | thanks, on to #oe then |
| 12:04.14 | RalphEichelberge | but flashing dont work |
| 12:04.23 | RalphEichelberge | i now tried t |
| 12:04.25 | RalphEichelberge | to |
| 12:04.28 | rwhitby | tuukkah: isn't mplayer already in the feed? |
| 12:04.38 | RalphEichelberge | just rm * all stuff in the image dir |
| 12:05.11 | RalphEichelberge | with make openmoko-devel-image |
| 12:05.19 | tuukkah | rwhitby, i haven't built a feed because when i asked about interesting targets to learn no-one remembered to mention it :-) |
| 12:06.29 | rwhitby | tuukkah: I mean the official feeds |
| 12:06.44 | tuukkah | haven't been using them |
| 12:07.06 | rwhitby | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/mplayer_0.0+1.0rc1-r14_armv4t.ipk |
| 12:07.18 | Ghiottone|work | back |
| 12:07.32 | Ghiottone|work | rwhitby: great. also I think that there is another issue. in setup-openmoko, there is the svn co. if that checkout is interrupted someway you have to clobber openmoko |
| 12:07.42 | tuukkah | i have mplayer built but then problem is when i try to install it ipkg complains about all the missing dependencies |
| 12:08.08 | rwhitby | tuukkah: all the deps are in that feed. what do you have your feeds set to on the neo? |
| 12:08.14 | Ghiottone|work | rwhitby: as you can't svn co again on the same dir. doing svn up or svn switch however will work also after interrupt |
| 12:08.40 | tuukkah | rwhitby, my own builds. like i said, i haven't been using the official feeds |
| 12:08.52 | rwhitby | tuukkah: then you need to build our own feed then |
| 12:09.26 | tuukkah | i suppose that could be the easy solution although i'd like to learn how to do this per package |
| 12:09.44 | rwhitby | tuukkah: asking me is not going to get you that answer, I'm afraid. |
| 12:10.32 | tuukkah | no problem, i'll see if anyone in #oe can tell something about it |
| 12:10.52 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: after you build a new package you have to do a make build-package-package-index |
| 12:11.06 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: for ipkg update to get it |
| 12:11.09 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, done that |
| 12:12.01 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: Ok I think I got the point. A few time I built a package that required some other package to be built |
| 12:12.20 | hrw | who wrote MediaPlayer? it is unusable. |
| 12:12.29 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 12:12.29 | SpeedEvil | At the moment. |
| 12:12.34 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: bitbake did them all, then I did package-index, then ipkg update and install |
| 12:12.38 | SpeedEvil | I think it's listed on [[MediaPlayer]] |
| 12:12.42 | tuukkah | rwhitby, yesterday i tried to get some help on #oe wrt the wiki but no-one was available. someone would beed to rename http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/bbfile to not start with a lower-case letter so it could be linked to from the frontpage |
| 12:13.01 | tuukkah | hrw, it's not meant to be ready yet |
| 12:13.04 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: install complained on missing packages. running make build-package- for each missing package I solved the issue |
| 12:13.22 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 12:13.52 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: I think this happens because packages are listed in DEPENDS and not in RDEPENDS |
| 12:13.53 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, i know. i'd hate to do that manually, i've done that work enough already |
| 12:13.58 | rwhitby | tuukkah: one way is to create a new .bb file, inherit meta.bbclass, and make it depend on mplayer - see meta/openmoko-feed.bb for an example |
| 12:14.17 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, oh so there're bugs about these still... |
| 12:14.35 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: then adjust RDEPENDS in that package recipe to your needs |
| 12:14.57 | rwhitby | Ghiottone|work: no it happens cause that's the way that bitbake is designed to work. You only get packages for an image or a feed if you use that package in an image or a feed. |
| 12:15.16 | rwhitby | tuukkah: this is not a bug |
| 12:17.14 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: I see. what about a for i in $DEPENDS; do make build-package-$i; done ? |
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| 12:27.54 | hrw | rwhitby: or do 'bitbake package1 package2 package3' |
| 12:28.13 | rwhitby | if you know all the dependencies, yes. |
| 12:29.32 | Ghiottone|work | is there a way to see what are the dependencies? |
| 12:29.47 | rwhitby | bitbake -g will tell you that |
| 12:29.52 | Ghiottone|work | apart from generating all the graph that I found to be unmanageable |
| 12:29.58 | Ghiottone|work | yeah that |
| 12:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD603.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:31.02 | rwhitby | oh, don't think of it as graphical output - think of it as something to feed to grep and less |
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| 12:32.09 | tuukkah | could be a good idea to turn MokoMakefile into a full bitbake wrapper for openmoko |
| 12:33.02 | rwhitby | no, better for people who need to build distros to use bitbake directly, and for application developers to use the still-coming-in-the-future SDK which hopefully won't be based on bitbake commands |
| 12:33.51 | tuukkah | well, would the SDK still be implemented using bitbake? |
| 12:34.58 | rwhitby | I hope not |
| 12:35.02 | tuukkah | imho running debian proper is also an interesting path to try |
| 12:35.33 | rwhitby | bitbake is not designed to be an IDE. it is an embedded distro build tool. |
| 12:36.20 | rwhitby | (well, bitbake is general, but when it is used with OE it's an embedded distro build tool) |
| 12:40.38 | Ghiottone|work | rwhitby: do you think that the processor graph in the bootchart has sense? it is always at 100% |
| 12:40.47 | *** join/#openmoko yyu_ (n=yyu@211.103.237.2) |
| 12:40.55 | rwhitby | Ghiottone|work: no idea |
| 12:41.08 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, so we would be fully cpu bound. why not |
| 12:41.36 | tuukkah | there are parts with sleeps though, what runs during those times? |
| 12:44.30 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@193.120.148.177) |
| 12:44.39 | Elrond | mickey|bbiab - pong |
| 12:50.03 | Ghiottone|work | it seems that little cpu is taken by jffs2 |
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| 12:51.16 | RalphEichelberge | well, i did it! |
| 12:51.25 | RalphEichelberge | i have a self build rootfs |
| 12:51.52 | RalphEichelberge | can anyone tell me how to make my selfbuild kernel? |
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| 12:54.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2967 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/ (29 files in 2 dirs): |
| 12:54.50 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Add new stock icons from designer |
| 12:54.50 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Replace yes/no/ok icons with new images from designer |
| 12:56.30 | gordonsyme | RalphEichelberge: if you are using the MokoMakefile then make openmoko-devel-image should built the rootfs, the kernel and the uboot image |
| 12:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 12:56.37 | raster | om has a designer? |
| 12:56.50 | rwhitby | be nice |
| 12:57.04 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 12:57.23 | raster | i didn't know |
| 12:57.26 | raster | i wasn't being sarchastic |
| 12:57.37 | raster | i thoguht there were mokup designs done once |
| 12:57.38 | roh | raster jap.. or do you believe the icons are done by software developers? |
| 12:57.40 | raster | and that was it |
| 12:58.02 | raster | roh: depends. some coders can also draw |
| 12:58.03 | raster | :) |
| 12:58.22 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:58.24 | raster | all the ones i've seen were in the original mockups |
| 12:58.28 | raster | so i thoguht they came from that |
| 12:58.36 | roh | raster heh.. you seem to know strange people ;) |
| 12:58.55 | raster | maybe om needs more of them :) |
| 12:59.10 | *** join/#openmoko Administrator (i=Administ@dsl-245-168-183.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 12:59.45 | raster | so om actualyl does have a designer? |
| 13:00.01 | raster | ie a guy you can go to saying "draw me up some foo for X" |
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| 13:00.12 | roh | raster ack |
| 13:00.16 | raster | cool |
| 13:00.26 | raster | u need one of those |
| 13:00.34 | roh | it gets easier as sharper the description gets |
| 13:00.42 | raster | svaes coders making a dogs breakfast of their ui's :) |
| 13:01.03 | mickeyl | Elrond: nevermind. i already found out. the new gllin eabi binary doesn't work *sigh* |
| 13:01.11 | mickeyl | getting a SIGSEGV pretty early in startup |
| 13:01.19 | raster | roh: of course |
| 13:01.22 | mickeyl | ~lart not having sourceode |
| 13:01.22 | apt | teaches not having sourceode that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. |
| 13:01.24 | mickeyl | this sucks big time |
| 13:01.26 | RalphEichelberge | i got only the rootfs |
| 13:01.28 | raster | e has its own icon guru these days |
| 13:01.35 | RalphEichelberge | no uboot no kernel |
| 13:01.35 | raster | it's not me |
| 13:01.44 | raster | i'm entirely out of time to do it |
| 13:02.38 | roh | mickeyl does the guy with the compiler have a device from us? |
| 13:02.46 | mickeyl | roh: yes |
| 13:03.20 | roh | mickeyl hm. then he should propably be able to test it with a build from us |
| 13:03.21 | mickeyl | and i refuse to do more work based on non-working binaries |
| 13:03.34 | mickeyl | this already eat 8 hours of my precious time |
| 13:03.42 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
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| 13:04.04 | gordonsyme | RalphEichelberge: they should all be in build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01. Does make flash-qemu-local work? |
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| 13:04.42 | RalphEichelberge | ill ty |
| 13:04.45 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, how did you get the data for the graph? |
| 13:05.19 | *** join/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@orion.thos.me.uk) |
| 13:05.28 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2968 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): * src/today-main.c: (today_create_home_page): Fix Dates icon (bug 830) |
| 13:05.33 | tuukkah | bootchartd |
| 13:06.31 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 13:06.36 | RalphEichelberge | no |
| 13:06.42 | RalphEichelberge | only lots of trouble |
| 13:06.44 | RalphEichelberge | :) |
| 13:07.05 | RalphEichelberge | U-boot fails to build |
| 13:07.30 | gordonsyme | RalphEichelberge: that's probably why you don't have a uboot image then... :-/ |
| 13:07.51 | RalphEichelberge | Please wait, programming the NAND flash... |
| 13:07.51 | RalphEichelberge | sleep: ungültiges Zeitintervall „„setenv““ |
| 13:07.51 | RalphEichelberge | sleep: ungültiges Zeitintervall „„dontask““ |
| 13:07.51 | RalphEichelberge | sleep: ungültiges Zeitintervall „„y““ |
| 13:07.51 | RalphEichelberge | ..... |
| 13:08.09 | RalphEichelberge | sleep: ungültiges Zeitintervall „„saveenv““ |
| 13:08.09 | RalphEichelberge | „sleep --help“ gibt weitere Informationen. |
| 13:08.09 | RalphEichelberge | openmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 13926 Terminated $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0 |
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| 13:08.18 | RalphEichelberge | sorry for foating |
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| 13:08.49 | gordonsyme | RalphEichelberge: that output is usually symptomatic of missing one of the "holy trinity" of rootfs, kernel and uboot image. Which makes sense if your kernel and uboot image haven't built |
| 13:08.59 | RalphEichelberge | should gsm work allready? |
| 13:09.17 | gordonsyme | Not sure why `make openmoko-devel-image` would succeed without building them though |
| 13:09.30 | RalphEichelberge | aha |
| 13:09.37 | RalphEichelberge | well how should I :)# |
| 13:10.45 | gordonsyme | RalphEichelberge: if you've had loads of trouble so far it may be worth clobbering everything and starting again from scratch, the build has gotten much more stable over the last while |
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| 13:11.37 | RalphEichelberge | does make update let me start from scratch or do I have to make clean or such? |
| 13:12.09 | gordonsyme | `make clobber` will clean out *everything*, it may take a while to run |
| 13:12.35 | gordonsyme | then you need to `make setup`, `make update`, `make openmoko-devel-image` |
| 13:13.15 | RalphEichelberge | well i will let it run over the weekend thus |
| 13:14.01 | RalphEichelberge | how about the gsm |
| 13:14.11 | RalphEichelberge | can we make phone calls allready? |
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| 13:15.17 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: yes, bootchartd |
| 13:15.28 | thos | RalphEichelberge, if you can get gsmd to behave, then yes |
| 13:15.39 | RalphEichelberge | i see |
| 13:15.50 | sunix | RalphEichelberge: i managed to do it after a hack yesterday |
| 13:16.04 | RalphEichelberge | hack? |
| 13:16.13 | RalphEichelberge | what did you do? |
| 13:16.43 | sunix | RalphEichelberge: patched /etc/init.d/gsmd |
| 13:17.22 | RalphEichelberge | so it just didnt start? or with the wrong params? |
| 13:17.24 | sunix | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
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| 13:18.53 | buz_ | is the mailinglist broken again? |
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| 13:19.47 | hrw | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&email1=hrw%40openedhand.com&emailtype1=exact&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1 |
| 13:19.48 | sunix | and then i added |
| 13:19.48 | sunix | /etc/init.d/gsmd stop |
| 13:19.48 | sunix | /etc/init.d/gsmd start |
| 13:19.48 | sunix | before dialer in /etc/matchbox/session |
| 13:20.09 | thos | don't do that in session |
| 13:20.09 | hrw | sunix: dialer do same if cant connect to gsmd |
| 13:20.16 | thos | yeah |
| 13:20.25 | hrw | sunix: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=831 |
| 13:21.38 | raster | oh fark |
| 13:21.43 | sunix | mh |
| 13:21.44 | raster | there goes pcmcia utils again |
| 13:21.48 | raster | infinite loop |
| 13:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko alexzhang (n=alexzhan@61.141.180.224) |
| 13:21.51 | raster | filling up my disk |
| 13:21.56 | RalphEichelberge | thx sunix |
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| 13:22.17 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, so the README says it uses /proc/*/stat and /proc/stat and /proc/diskstats. could be as simple as information missing in them. at least mtdblock* shows 0 |
| 13:22.22 | alphaone | Elrond: ping |
| 13:22.52 | alexzhang | ML dead again? |
| 13:23.26 | mickeyl | hi alexzhang |
| 13:23.43 | alexzhang | hi doctor! |
| 13:23.57 | alexzhang | ML dead again? |
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| 13:24.22 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: that was I initially thought. but I checked /proc/diskstats and information seemed to be there |
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| 13:24.47 | Elrond | alphaone - *pong* |
| 13:24.50 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: some data was in the resulting diskstats log |
| 13:24.52 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, i see other that 0 only for mmcblk0* |
| 13:25.34 | alphaone | Elrond: Shoragan and I are at "Gambacher Kreuz" now |
| 13:25.51 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: yeah. I also added a |grep mmcblk to the logger function but results did not change. maybe the graph generation routine does not support that device |
| 13:25.55 | Elrond | alphaone - Ahh, so you're there soon. :) |
| 13:26.01 | Elrond | mickeyl - gllin-eabi? Huh? |
| 13:26.04 | sunix | hrw: so what should i do ? :p |
| 13:26.14 | mickeyl | Elrond: SIGSEGV |
| 13:26.29 | alphaone | Elrond: yeah |
| 13:26.35 | Elrond | mickeyl - Is it available anywhere? |
| 13:26.41 | mickeyl | Elrond: no |
| 13:26.47 | mickeyl | i'll make it available once it works |
| 13:26.48 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, mmcblk0 is the sd card and i wouldn't expect it to be used significantly during the boot |
| 13:26.51 | mickeyl | and the license is cleaned |
| 13:27.05 | sunix | hrw: don't understand a thing to the bug 831 |
| 13:27.57 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: I know. me too. but I am starting to wonder if bootchart ignores that device for some reason |
| 13:28.15 | raster | i wonder if its om building with make -j3 on pcmciautils |
| 13:28.21 | raster | and that somehow getting make into an infinite loop |
| 13:28.23 | alexzhang | hi, mickeyl, what about QVGA theme now? |
| 13:28.28 | cbrake | alexzhang: I just subscribed to a bunch of lists and have not received any response |
| 13:28.34 | hrw | sunix: now gsmd is restarted up to 2 times during x11 startup |
| 13:28.36 | Elrond | mickeyl - Ahh, good. |
| 13:28.38 | mickeyl | alexzhang: almost 100% done |
| 13:28.44 | hrw | sunix: so do not add another one |
| 13:28.45 | thomasg | raster: http://gstaedtner.net/bilder/neo1973/e17_triple.jpg |
| 13:28.53 | mickeyl | alexzhang: works already fine on my a780 |
| 13:28.53 | Elrond | mickeyl - So finally the output-data from gllin isn't anymore owned by GL? ;o) |
| 13:29.14 | alexzhang | oh! Cool!!! Thank you so much!! |
| 13:29.28 | mickeyl | alexzhang: thank you for all your work! |
| 13:29.31 | raster | 32G log.do_compile.67 <- bad .... mmmkay |
| 13:29.33 | sunix | really .. ok :) |
| 13:29.36 | mickeyl | alexzhang: we need to continue on a1200 :) |
| 13:29.45 | mickeyl | thomasg: insane, but cool |
| 13:29.45 | hrw | raster: what you compile? |
| 13:29.48 | alexzhang | cbrake: thanks for your information |
| 13:30.05 | thomasg | mickeyl: I also have a video if you want :) |
| 13:30.10 | raster | pcmciautils-014-r1 |
| 13:30.12 | alexzhang | mickeyl: OK! I will try my best. it's so busy these days... ;) |
| 13:30.27 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl: why to concentrate on a1200 when there is still lot of work to do on the Neo? (just to ask, not to polemize) |
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| 13:30.39 | thomasg | I can even use it with my fingers, but I'm well trained with touchscreens, so this is definately not was everyone would like :) |
| 13:30.41 | hrw | raster: hmm.. |
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| 13:31.06 | mickeyl | Ghiottone|work: well, that comment was made with my wearing the OpenEZX hat. I'm still commited to do some work on this project in my spare time. that has nothing do to with not concentrating on the Neo |
| 13:31.06 | raster | indeed |
| 13:31.21 | alexzhang | Ghiottone: I would say OpenMoko is not only for Neo, but also for other phones |
| 13:31.25 | PBeck | thomasg: the video is the important thing ;) |
| 13:31.25 | alexzhang | :) |
| 13:31.37 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, if you have bootloader that doesn't crash when booting from sd, you could graph a boot from it |
| 13:32.12 | XorA | hopefully someone from motorola notices OpenMoko on their phones |
| 13:33.02 | mickeyl | thomasg: video! yes, please :) |
| 13:33.10 | Ghiottone|work | mickeyl: oh I see :) |
| 13:33.56 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: :-O damn. I just only realized that you said SD card, not the flash card! now I see why it is always zero! |
| 13:34.16 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: later when I'm at home I'll try that |
| 13:34.30 | alexzhang | XorA: I think they (motorola guys) have noted that. |
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| 13:34.55 | XorA | alexzhang: I wonder if they will consider replacing their horrible UI |
| 13:35.06 | XorA | alexzhang: and chucking OM some money for consultancy |
| 13:35.19 | Ghiottone|work | alexzhang: yeah I know that. but thought that mickey was working on the neo and not thinking at his spare time |
| 13:35.52 | guaqua | thomasg: how responsive is e17? |
| 13:36.06 | rwhitby | XorA: I have given an OpenMoko presentation in a Motorola facility. |
| 13:36.15 | thomasg | guaqua: look: http://gstaedtner.net/e17_on_Neo.avi |
| 13:36.28 | guaqua | sorry, missed it, thanks |
| 13:36.41 | raster | thomasg: crazy! :) |
| 13:36.43 | thomasg | notice, that I used standard software-x11, not xrender and not even the 16-bit software-renderer |
| 13:36.51 | mwester | I've shown the UI to someone at a Motorola office as well. :) |
| 13:37.06 | thomasg | raster: maybe crazy, but definitely extremely cool :) |
| 13:37.15 | raster | thomasg: i need to work on the layout stuff |
| 13:37.16 | rwhitby | mwester: this was an hour long talk to about 30 Motorola engineers. |
| 13:37.17 | mickeyl | amazing! |
| 13:37.19 | mickeyl | it's _FAST_ |
| 13:37.25 | raster | so e can manage windows nicely on such small screens |
| 13:37.29 | raster | some of the basics is there |
| 13:37.40 | thomasg | mickeyl: yeah, it's really ok - I expect real improvements with software-16-x11 |
| 13:38.01 | mickeyl | thomasg: *nod* |
| 13:38.10 | thomasg | raster: I tested layout and basically it works - but it's not really usable right now |
| 13:38.30 | raster | one of these days i need to find out what that delay is in drawing borders |
| 13:38.33 | mwester | mickeyl: Thanks for committing the /etc/init.d/gmsd workaround. Would a kernel patch to ensure the flow control is set correctly when one does the "echo '0' >.../power_on" operation be a better solution? |
| 13:38.46 | raster | thomasg: yeah - layotu is just a start on a proof of concept |
| 13:38.56 | raster | that it *IS* possible to just have a moduel define window layout policies |
| 13:38.59 | mickeyl | mwester: yes |
| 13:39.13 | guaqua | *droool* |
| 13:39.17 | raster | and i need to put in all the hooks |
| 13:39.17 | mickeyl | thomasg: can you upload your image? I'd like to showcase it on OpenExpo |
| 13:39.17 | mwester | :) Ok, I'll work on that then. |
| 13:39.26 | mickeyl | mwester: cool, thanks |
| 13:39.34 | thomasg | mickeyl: you mean the jffs2 image? |
| 13:39.38 | thomasg | or the picture? |
| 13:39.43 | raster | i can get speedusp in normal software_x11 if i cacfhe buffers and xshmimages |
| 13:39.43 | mickeyl | jffs2 |
| 13:39.48 | raster | to avoid re-alloc per frame update |
| 13:40.01 | thomasg | mickeyl: of course, but it's more a evil hack than a real image :) |
| 13:40.12 | mickeyl | thomasg: sure. i don't expect otherwise :) |
| 13:40.13 | thomasg | but well, it's not that bad |
| 13:40.26 | mickeyl | if you have any OE patches, just upload to bugzilla ;) |
| 13:40.26 | thomasg | I can upload the jffs2 image plus the needed ipkg packages |
| 13:40.34 | mickeyl | cool |
| 13:40.43 | thomasg | you will have to install the ipkgs on the device, otherwise e17 will crash at start |
| 13:41.01 | thomasg | didn't have the time to build a real image yet, I'm just glad to have it working now :) |
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| 13:50.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2969 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-pim-journal.c): |
| 13:50.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/today-pim-journal.c: (today_pim_journal_box_new): Don't try to |
| 13:50.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: load the journal if opening it failed. Prevents segfault if d-bus is |
| 13:50.02 | CIA-23 | openmoko: not available. |
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| 13:52.55 | cbrake | I'm getting the following with dfu-util: No such Alternate Setting: "kernel" |
| 13:53.02 | cbrake | any suggestions? |
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| 13:54.42 | cbrake | ahh, dfu-util -a 3 -R -D works -- perhaps I need to update my BL |
| 13:56.44 | thos | cbrake, depends what version of dfu-util/u-boot you have |
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| 13:57.21 | cbrake | thos: BL version says 1.20-moko9_r0, dfu-util was built from a very recent OE build |
| 13:58.24 | tuukkah | could the names come from uboot env variables? |
| 13:59.07 | tuukkah | at least there we have mtdparts=mtdparts=neo1973-nand:0x00040000(u-boot),0x00004000(u-boot_env),0x00200000(kernel),0x000a0000(splash),0x03d1c000(rootfs) |
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| 14:06.25 | hrw | is there any working mediaplayer for neo other then mpg321/mpg123/madplay type? |
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| 14:07.41 | Elrond | hrw - abraxa_ was/is working on one. |
| 14:09.14 | tuukkah | that would be openmoko-mediaplayer |
| 14:09.29 | tuukkah | but it's not quite there yet |
| 14:10.14 | mickeyl | hrw: gst-launch :D |
| 14:10.21 | tuukkah | mplayer works somewhat |
| 14:10.30 | hrw | mickeyl: s.... ... ;D |
| 14:10.39 | mickeyl | haha |
| 14:10.57 | hrw | !ombug 866 |
| 14:10.58 | thomasg | mickeyl: qry |
| 14:11.04 | jpcass | also mpd / mpc works |
| 14:11.14 | hrw | mickeyl: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=866 is for you |
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| 14:13.01 | hrw | ├@°␋␌-±├▒01:·$ DISPLAY=:0 ␍␉┤-┌▒┤┼␌ ␊┼└┐-├␍▒≤ |
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| 14:16.37 | cjb_ie | looks more like an encoding problem to me |
| 14:16.48 | cjb_ie | or just pasting in some binary |
| 14:16.49 | hrw | mwester: I do not understand that too - terminal fuckup on neo gave me this |
| 14:17.13 | hrw | it is 'root@fic-gta01:~$ DISPLAY=:0 dbus-launch openmoko-today" |
| 14:18.12 | *** part/#openmoko RalphEichelberge (n=openmoko@gateway.tourist-mobile.com) |
| 14:18.27 | cbrake | I managed to flash a BL from my current OE build, but it says 1.3.0-rc1-moko11_r0 on the boot screen but, u-boot-gta01bv2-1.2.0+gitf34024... in the images directory -- strange |
| 14:18.54 | cbrake | and "dfu-util -a kernel" still does not work |
| 14:19.54 | roh | cbrake gta01bv2 ? |
| 14:20.04 | cbrake | dfu-util -l still lists all the names as "UNDEFINED" |
| 14:20.12 | roh | you have a really old device, not a p1? |
| 14:20.31 | cbrake | roh: no gta01bv4 |
| 14:20.59 | tuukkah | cbrake, did you check what printenv says in uboot? |
| 14:21.03 | cbrake | roh: I did flash the bv4 image, I just copied the wrong text when pasting into ric |
| 14:21.09 | cbrake | *irc |
| 14:21.13 | roh | ;) |
| 14:21.41 | cbrake | tuukkah: let me get connected so I can do that ... |
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| 14:25.22 | cbrake | tuukkah: hmm, my u-boot boot menu only has two items: Boot & Factory Reset |
| 14:25.48 | roh | cbrake oh.. then your uboot env is propably empty.. thats the hardcoded minimum-default |
| 14:25.58 | tuukkah | cbrake, you have to go to the uboot console via serial port or usbtty |
| 14:26.05 | roh | use ttyacm if you can to set the mtd up again |
| 14:26.11 | tuukkah | cbrake, cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 14:26.37 | tuukkah | (on the computer) |
| 14:27.36 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2970 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (ChangeLog data/openmoko-feedreader2.desktop): * data/openmoko-feedreader2.desktop: Enable single instance |
| 14:28.58 | cbrake | tuukkah: cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 returns Connected, but nothing else -- no prompt, etc |
| 14:29.16 | cbrake | wonder if the console is defaulted to serial |
| 14:29.45 | XorA | cbrake: no debug board? |
| 14:29.52 | tuukkah | my great python interface to video players =) http://tuukka.iki.fi/tmp/plugtest.py.png |
| 14:29.56 | cbrake | XorA: yes, I can get that out if needed |
| 14:30.09 | XorA | cbrake: run the devirginator to get stuff back sane then upgrade |
| 14:30.27 | tuukkah | cbrake, it doesn't help if you press enter when cu connects? |
| 14:30.41 | cbrake | tuukkah: let me try again |
| 14:31.13 | tuukkah | but perhaps you really need the menu entry for "use usb console" so that you can use that to active usbtty |
| 14:31.13 | cbrake | tuukkah: nothing |
| 14:31.22 | cbrake | tuukkah: seems likely at this point |
| 14:31.31 | alphaone | Elrond: We're here now at Schloßgartenstraße 9 and trying to find the mrmcd |
| 14:31.39 | alphaone | So see you there in a bit. |
| 14:31.58 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2971 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/ (ChangeLog data/openmoko-terminal.desktop): * data/openmoko-terminal.desktop: Enable single instance |
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| 15:14.57 | Marcel_M | hi |
| 15:21.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2972 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-terminal2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-terminal.c): openmoko-terminal2: set default font to "LiberationMono 5" |
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| 15:26.06 | Shoragan | hi Elrond, we have now arrived at mrmcd |
| 15:26.48 | Elrond | Shoragan - Ahh, fine. :-) |
| 15:27.12 | Shoragan | we're waiting for you |
| 15:27.28 | Elrond | Shoragan - See query. ;) |
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| 15:53.55 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, bootchart running alone takes 90% of cpu... |
| 15:56.22 | tuukkah | but running that way, the resulting cpu graph has some non-100% areas :-) |
| 15:57.04 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: how did you get that value? |
| 15:57.27 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: this makes it almost impossible to benchmark boot process with it |
| 15:57.59 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: so the graph results have sense... |
| 15:58.08 | tuukkah | ran bootchartd start sleep 60 and looked in top at the same time |
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| 15:58.31 | tuukkah | i'll try with a longer sample interval |
| 16:00.19 | Ghiottone|work | tuukkah: any tip about I/O ? |
| 16:01.01 | tuukkah | i would try with sd card if i wasn't afraid to brick the phone in a uboot downgrade |
| 16:01.55 | Ghiottone|work | downgrade? why is that needed? |
| 16:02.29 | tuukkah | the 2007.8 snapshot uboot doesn't boot from sd, for me at least |
| 16:02.41 | tuukkah | what shipped with the phone did boot |
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| 16:03.23 | Ghiottone|work | argh. I have that version (19 august isn't that?) too. and I'm without debug board |
| 16:04.55 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, indeed |
| 16:08.33 | cw666 | zdanek: poke :-) |
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| 16:11.12 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, changing the interval to 1 second instead of 0.1 second, the idle cpu graph is like 25%. but the boot graph is still 100% all the time :-( |
| 16:12.50 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone having problems building uicmoc4-native, anyone please confirm in the latest svn head.. |
| 16:13.10 | mwester | Sup3rkiddo: built just fine for me a few hours ago. |
| 16:14.03 | Sup3rkiddo | mwester, hm...why am i the only one to get screwed up, have been bulidng without luck for the last 2 weeks |
| 16:14.44 | mwester | You may need to delete the build/tmp directory and start over -- I do that about one per week just to avoid problems... |
| 16:15.05 | Sup3rkiddo | mwester, i did that today morning, =| |
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| 16:15.24 | mwester | Can you pastebin the log? |
| 16:15.33 | StreetSurfer3655 | wanke5r |
| 16:15.36 | Sup3rkiddo | jus a sec |
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| 16:15.41 | mwester | If its a -native package, it might e something on your host... |
| 16:15.51 | StreetSurfer3655 | yeoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 16:15.59 | StreetSurfer3655 | use all are gay |
| 16:16.08 | Sup3rkiddo | mwester, yes it is a native package...am on gentoo |
| 16:16.17 | tuukkah | StreetSurfer3655, buy a phone |
| 16:16.32 | StreetSurfer3655 | 04wat |
| 16:16.53 | StreetSurfer3655 | 04 piss off |
| 16:16.54 | Sup3rkiddo | mwester, known issues eh? |
| 16:17.20 | StreetSurfer3655 | 04do you wana fight fuck face |
| 16:17.51 | mwester | Not, not specifically - just in general I've found that the native packages have more dependencies on missing/broken host libraries and things like that. |
| 16:18.31 | StreetSurfer3655 | 04wankers |
| 16:18.37 | cw666 | is there a mokomakefile target for just uboot |
| 16:18.38 | cw666 | ? |
| 16:18.43 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, adding a sleep 60 to the middle of the boot process made a nice gap so we just happen to be cpu bound |
| 16:18.49 | StreetSurfer3655 | 04pisss off |
| 16:18.51 | DPThough1 | can someone plz kick that sucker/bot? |
| 16:19.02 | Hopscotch | i'm already on it |
| 16:19.06 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.08 | raster | ignore |
| 16:19.18 | tuukkah | DPThough1, sorry for feeding the troll :-( |
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| 16:20.30 | Sup3rkiddo | mwester, http://pastebin.ca/697684 have snipped the messages since it was tooo big... |
| 16:20.51 | Hopscotch | *udpmegaphonekill* |
| 16:21.09 | tuukkah | Ghiottone|work, which is easy to imagine when simple tasks like bootchart eat almost all cpu |
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| 16:21.35 | gordonsyme | cw666: should be something like make rebuild-package-uboot |
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| 16:30.46 | juri_ | ah, one less troll. ;) |
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| 17:00.35 | cw666 | raster: any idea why gtk/gnome UI stuff tends to have quite high latency on the neo? |
| 17:02.15 | emdete | cw666: gtk isn't really designed with slow processor & low mem in mind... |
| 17:03.40 | cw666 | emdete: well, memory isn't that big of a deal in some ways, we have plenty, cache might be |
| 17:03.41 | alex-weej | is there some kind of timeline online somewhere? |
| 17:03.49 | alex-weej | i'd like to know some dates |
| 17:03.53 | alex-weej | i tried looking on the wiki but no luck :( |
| 17:04.01 | mbuf | emdete, does the mobile gnome initiative help change this? |
| 17:04.38 | cw666 | x itself seems pretty reasonable, so i'm wondering where the delays come from, inside gtk, inside gnome or some pipeline elsewhere? |
| 17:05.17 | alex-weej | is the theme pixmap? |
| 17:05.20 | alex-weej | or does it use cairo? |
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| 17:05.59 | alex-weej | if it's cairo, Xrender might be being slow |
| 17:06.15 | tuukkah | alex-weej, here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 |
| 17:06.26 | alex-weej | thanks |
| 17:06.35 | alex-weej | christmas! |
| 17:06.56 | alex-weej | yeah so i'd guess the graphics accelerator will have good EXA |
| 17:07.03 | alex-weej | speeding up XRender, Cairo, and GTK by proxy :) |
| 17:07.06 | cworth | alex-weej: The original software releases had no cairo at all and a pixmap-based theme. |
| 17:07.22 | cw666 | yeah, it might be theat, except it *feels* like there are delays *before* anything is rendered |
| 17:07.26 | cworth | alex-weej: Newer releases include cairo, but I don't know if the theme has changed yet. |
| 17:07.31 | alex-weej | ah ok |
| 17:07.39 | alex-weej | cw666: does sysprof run on it? :) |
| 17:07.44 | emdete | hm, i don't know, if the mobile gnome initiative will help - for me it seems gnome always waited for faster processors... |
| 17:07.49 | cw666 | so unless it's doing off-screen rendering and blitting it on, i dont think the perf issues are rendering |
| 17:07.52 | cworth | alex-weej: And that Christmas timeline appears to have just been a guess made by a wiki editor. |
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| 17:08.30 | cworth | "December is a random date I picked that may be corrected by someone with a clue. --Speedevil" |
| 17:08.58 | SpeedEvil | It's an educated guess. |
| 17:09.06 | cw666 | alex-weej: no sysprof im sure, and no oprofile (yet) |
| 17:09.12 | SpeedEvil | Based on comments made in channel, and previous information. |
| 17:09.16 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, i was just about to use the same words :-) |
| 17:09.28 | raster | cw666: i can postulate many a theory on the slowness. |
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| 17:10.28 | raster | cw666: i think the current gtk on the neo is using the pixmap engine |
| 17:10.39 | raster | these days that uses gdpixbuf to do all rendering basically |
| 17:10.44 | raster | beyond that i dont know details |
| 17:10.59 | raster | but that means u can take cairo and xrender out of the picture |
| 17:11.08 | raster | (i think xrender at any rate) |
| 17:11.23 | raster | so you slowness will be: |
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| 17:11.29 | raster | 1. gdkpixbuf |
| 17:11.45 | raster | 2. gtk itself (and its rendering pipeline, double buffering etc.) |
| 17:12.00 | raster | in comparison evas uses the cpu to do rendering too |
| 17:12.03 | raster | like gdkpixbuf |
| 17:12.12 | raster | but it can manage it significantly more snappily |
| 17:12.19 | raster | a few things might factor in there |
| 17:12.30 | raster | gdkpixbuf i THINK uses RGB buffers for solid images |
| 17:12.38 | raster | and ARGB32 for those with alpha |
| 17:12.44 | raster | RGB are 33% smaller |
| 17:12.50 | raster | but are nto dword (32bit) aligned |
| 17:12.57 | raster | u have to access R, G and B separately |
| 17:13.01 | raster | 1 byte at a time |
| 17:13.08 | raster | arm's will not do spectacularly at that |
| 17:13.16 | raster | they are much better 32bits at a time |
| 17:13.24 | cw666 | well, any word access unaligned will trap in the kernel too, that's very slow |
| 17:13.27 | raster | evas keeps everyting 32bit aligned |
| 17:13.28 | cw666 | i guess that's worth checking |
| 17:13.30 | raster | alpha or not |
| 17:13.31 | raster | but again |
| 17:13.37 | raster | i'm digging into deep memory of gdkpixbuf |
| 17:13.43 | raster | from many a year ago |
| 17:13.46 | raster | i could be wrong now |
| 17:13.50 | raster | and no |
| 17:13.56 | raster | not unaligned |
| 17:14.18 | raster | just dword (aligned) vs 3 byte (aligned) accesses |
| 17:14.41 | raster | probably the scaling algorithms are faster in evas |
| 17:14.43 | cw666 | actually it probably is aligned, i did see printks for some unaligned accesses but not from what looked like gui related things |
| 17:14.44 | raster | by a fair margin |
| 17:14.45 | raster | etc. |
| 17:14.52 | raster | alpha blending too |
| 17:14.58 | raster | as w3ell as blitting |
| 17:15.00 | cw666 | what about using a fixed pallete? dropping 24-bit? |
| 17:15.11 | raster | u still have 16bpp |
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| 17:15.18 | raster | so u'd have to drop native rendering to all 16bpp |
| 17:15.21 | raster | that complicates life |
| 17:15.25 | raster | trust me |
| 17:15.29 | raster | evas has a 16bpp engine now |
| 17:15.34 | raster | it has nicely complicated things |
| 17:15.54 | raster | try doing filtered (super or sub-sampled/interploated) scaling in 16bpp :) |
| 17:16.01 | raster | (and keep it fast) |
| 17:16.06 | cw666 | no, i can see that would suck |
| 17:16.18 | cw666 | fixed palette then would internally end up doing that? |
| 17:16.22 | raster | but note |
| 17:16.25 | raster | i am speculating here |
| 17:16.26 | cw666 | the hw has a 256-color mode option |
| 17:16.34 | raster | i think it is porbably a combination of multiple things |
| 17:16.38 | raster | that add up together |
| 17:16.44 | raster | and yes it does |
| 17:16.50 | raster | your lifw ill SUCK in 256color mode |
| 17:16.54 | raster | you do NOT want to go there |
| 17:17.19 | cw666 | the suck comes from where? internally matching/futzing with a limited pallete? |
| 17:17.31 | raster | a SHAREd display between multiepl apps |
| 17:17.35 | raster | all trying to steal colors |
| 17:17.37 | cw666 | (i dont really know anything about x tbqh) |
| 17:17.39 | raster | having to flip/change colors |
| 17:17.45 | raster | looow quality display |
| 17:17.49 | raster | this isnt x |
| 17:17.57 | raster | this is just 8bpp vs truecolor 15bpp+ displays |
| 17:18.08 | raster | the only sane way to deal with 8bpp is colorcubes |
| 17:18.21 | raster | eg 332 (or 6x6x6 "websafe" colors) |
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| 17:18.37 | cw666 | i was thinking the web-palette actually |
| 17:18.48 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17-in-8bpp.png |
| 17:18.52 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17-in-15bpp.png |
| 17:18.55 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17-in-16bpp.png |
| 17:18.58 | raster | as a comparison |
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| 17:19.13 | raster | tyhe 8bpp one is websafe |
| 17:19.16 | cw666 | raster: right, but see, i want a phone that's hackable with limited GUI if that's the cost |
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| 17:19.37 | raster | you are possibly better running 320x240 qvga |
| 17:19.44 | raster | you have 1/4 the # of pixels to fill |
| 17:19.51 | raster | technically - a 4x speedup |
| 17:20.08 | cw666 | i wasn't aware the LCD controller did that |
| 17:20.13 | raster | (not really as u have otheroverheads - but more bang for your buck than anything else you can do simply) |
| 17:20.20 | raster | i believe it can |
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| 17:20.32 | raster | personally i will just use EFL |
| 17:20.42 | raster | as it performas just nicely |
| 17:20.44 | cw666 | EFL? |
| 17:20.54 | raster | the same libraries enlightenment is built on |
| 17:21.02 | cworth | cw666: There's no solid evidence that there's any fundamental performance limitation needing a huge drop in output quality like 8bpp would mean. |
| 17:21.05 | raster | ecore, evas, edje, ewl/etk etc. |
| 17:21.08 | cw666 | cworth: true |
| 17:21.15 | cw666 | raster: is that what 'feh' uses too? |
| 17:21.21 | raster | no |
| 17:21.24 | raster | feh uses imlib2 |
| 17:21.28 | raster | thats much older |
| 17:21.33 | raster | basically obsolete |
| 17:22.39 | cw666 | raster: so ELF would use used instead of cairo, gdkpixbuf, etc? |
| 17:22.41 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 17:22.45 | cw666 | oop, EFL :-) |
| 17:22.52 | raster | evas took over much of imlib2 and is intended for realtime display |
| 17:22.58 | raster | not just image manipulation routines |
| 17:23.12 | raster | well not for gtk |
| 17:23.12 | raster | no |
| 17:23.17 | raster | i wouldnt use gtk |
| 17:23.24 | raster | etk or ewl are widget sets |
| 17:23.32 | raster | they use evas/edje/ecore etc. |
| 17:23.55 | raster | but you can use gtk |
| 17:23.58 | raster | it is a good widget set |
| 17:24.07 | raster | it is very complete and full featured |
| 17:24.30 | raster | i personally care a lot about speed, slickness and visual appearance and flexibility |
| 17:24.33 | raster | thus i go the EFL way |
| 17:24.34 | cw666 | the thing with gtk is that people have already done a lot of GUI things for it, there is a lot of code to borrow & reuse |
| 17:24.39 | raster | also i wrote a chunk of it |
| 17:24.44 | raster | so its my own backyard |
| 17:24.47 | raster | thus i'm biased |
| 17:24.48 | raster | :) |
| 17:25.29 | raster | you take your pick |
| 17:25.39 | raster | i know what matters to me |
| 17:25.51 | polz | and again, I feel like crying |
| 17:25.55 | raster | and i am making mu choice accordingly |
| 17:25.59 | raster | my |
| 17:26.20 | polz | I just want to get a hello world package working... and then I get to this:http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual&dpage=commonuse_new_package |
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| 17:38.48 | cbrake | polz: the best way to create a custom application is: 1) set up your app just like you would any other app and check it into SVN. |
| 17:39.04 | cbrake | 2) use autotools to build your app -- this makes it very easy to croscompile with OE. |
| 17:39.30 | cbrake | 3) write a OE receipe that will build your app directly from SVN. |
| 17:39.56 | cbrake | this method allows you to easily build it on your host system, and in OE for your embedded target |
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| 17:42.09 | cbrake | polz: here is an example: http://pastebin.ca/697771 |
| 17:43.51 | polz | cbrake: so far, I haven't even been able to get bitbake to find my .bb files :( |
| 17:44.18 | cbrake | polz: what does echo $BBPATH tell you? |
| 17:44.22 | polz | cbrake: I've followed the app. devel. crash course in the wiki, but for some reason, it doesn't work for me |
| 17:44.34 | polz | after I source setup-env ? |
| 17:45.22 | polz | export BBPATH="${OMDIR}/local:${OMDIR}/build:${OMDIR}/openembedded" |
| 17:45.47 | polz | however, up until a few minutes ago, I had my local dir at the middle of the path |
| 17:45.52 | polz | at -> in |
| 17:46.15 | polz | between the build and openembedded dirs |
| 17:46.28 | cbrake | polz: location should not matter for a bb file |
| 17:46.46 | cbrake | polz: it does for conf files as they define global variables, and the last one wins |
| 17:46.58 | polz | cbrake: I think the order in which the various setup.conf files are read might matter |
| 17:47.14 | cbrake | polz: very possible |
| 17:47.43 | polz | so... what do I have to do to get my conf file to win over the others ? |
| 17:48.08 | cbrake | polz: my projects are not set up exactly like openmoko, so give me a min ... |
| 17:48.16 | *** join/#openmoko dkr (n=dkr@alita-alt.wirespring.net) |
| 17:48.16 | polz | btw, I'm doing a make setup update openmoko-build-image with the new path... |
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| 17:49.04 | polz | and grepping through all the files for BBFILES |
| 17:49.16 | polz | so... trying anything is going to take a while |
| 17:50.33 | cbrake | polz: bitbake -i is also handy sometimes |
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| 17:51.09 | cbrake | polz: echo $BBPATH returns /build/openmoko/oe/build:/build/openmoko/oe/openembedded in my setup |
| 17:51.12 | mbuf | is there a bitbake user-manual in .pdf? |
| 17:51.23 | cbrake | mbuf: yes ... |
| 17:52.04 | polz | cbrake: and I'm guessing all your apps are in openmoko/oe/openembedded, right ? |
| 17:52.15 | cbrake | mbuf: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/openembedded-user-manual-available-pdf |
| 17:52.30 | cbrake | polz: I've not built any custom apps for openmoko yet ... |
| 17:52.47 | cbrake | polz: but I'm wondering if ${OMDIR} is getting expanded correctly |
| 17:52.49 | polz | cbrake: you seem to be avoiding my problem by not placing your custom files in a separate dir... |
| 17:52.59 | polz | heh, I seem to have found the problem |
| 17:53.11 | polz | or at least _a_ problem |
| 17:53.12 | cbrake | polz: I've used bbcollections on many other projects, and it works great |
| 17:53.24 | polz | the instructions in the wiki are a bit wrong |
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| 17:54.35 | cbrake | polz: do you have OMDIR set in setup-env? |
| 17:54.55 | polz | yep. |
| 17:55.01 | mbuf | cbrake, excellent thanks! |
| 17:55.17 | polz | cbrake: the make just finished. It was the order in which the dirs are specified in BBPATH |
| 17:55.31 | polz | the local dir should come before build |
| 17:56.39 | polz | I've changed the instructions in the wiki accordingly... |
| 17:56.55 | cbrake | polz: yes, I always put my custom overlay directory first. |
| 17:56.56 | polz | and just hope that doesn't break anything for the others |
| 17:57.10 | cbrake | polz: bitbake must stop at the first conf file it finds |
| 17:57.55 | polz | mbuf: buy a couple of crates at a discount store - if you can afford to spend 250+ euros on a phone, you can also afford to buy a crate of beer :) |
| 17:58.35 | polz | cbrake: oh ? Are you sure ? If you are, I'll add that piece of info to the wiki page |
| 17:59.05 | cbrake | polz: no, just an emperical observation. Its how my builds are set up, and its what is working for you. |
| 17:59.15 | cbrake | polz: so i'd say it is a pretty safe bet |
| 18:00.21 | cbrake | polz: you have two site.conf files, so as long as the one still existed in build, it was winning |
| 18:00.29 | mbuf | polz, will remember that, thanks |
| 18:01.01 | cbrake | polz: the image recipe is wrong too ... |
| 18:01.21 | polz | cbrake: yep. Too bad noone told me this last week :) |
| 18:01.42 | polz | cbrake: oh ? What's wrong there ? |
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| 18:02.05 | polz | this is the first time I've been able to get bitbake to at least find the recipees |
| 18:02.36 | polz | so I don't know what other problems one can run into when actually trying to _use_ the recipees. |
| 18:03.18 | cbrake | polz: PACKAGE_INSTALL has been replaced by IMAGE_INSTALL |
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| 18:09.41 | cbrake | polz: wiki updated |
| 18:09.53 | DukeOfURL | When booting, what does Bad Data CRC mean? Reflashing doesn't help. |
| 18:10.18 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: if it is a jffs2 message, it is probably benign -- does it still boot? |
| 18:10.24 | polz | cbrake: we, the incompetent of the world, salute you :) |
| 18:10.45 | cbrake | polz: OE is constant change :-) |
| 18:10.57 | cbrake | polz: lots of new good stuff, but hard to keep up |
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| 18:11.43 | cbrake | polz: also, mucking with DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS is frowned upon by OE core devs -- consider: http://bec-systems.com/web/content/view/79/9/ |
| 18:13.41 | DukeOfURL | cbrake: the message occurs at the beginning of the boot, after it has printed "Image Name", "Vreated", etc. It then goes back to the uboot menu. |
| 18:13.56 | DukeOfURL | s/Vreated/Created/ |
| 18:14.18 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: ahh, that is likely not a jffs2 message then |
| 18:14.42 | DukeOfURL | no, it hasn't unpacked the kernel yet |
| 18:15.06 | polz | cbrake: is there an official wiki one should refer to ? I mean, if the system is in constant flux, at least the docs should also be up-to-date |
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| 18:15.45 | cbrake | polz: no, unfortunately not -- you best bet ATM is ask on IRC when things don't work, and look at other recipies |
| 18:16.18 | cbrake | polz: the OE wiki is in a sorry state |
| 18:17.26 | polz | cbrake: isn't there a bitbake wiki the OE wiki could link to ? |
| 18:17.54 | cbrake | polz: not that I know of. Bitbake is only used by the OE project as far as I know. |
| 18:18.33 | cbrake | polz: the openembedded manual is pretty decent, so I'll try to get some of this stuff in there when I get a chance. |
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| 18:23.16 | DukeOfURL | cbrake: the kernel image was corrupt |
| 18:23.52 | DukeOfURL | it reboots after the fourth reflash |
| 18:25.31 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: interesting |
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| 19:02.24 | cbrake | and glad to have my unit working again with latest sw |
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| 19:04.20 | Ghiottone | hello all |
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| 19:04.45 | tuukkah | hi Ghiottone! i finally got a chart with an io graph |
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| 19:10.23 | seemant | so look |
| 19:10.33 | seemant | will evo syncing be working on the openmoko at release time? |
| 19:10.43 | seemant | the neo1973 I mean |
| 19:12.53 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, great! what was the problem? |
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| 19:14.11 | tuukkah | i remembered i can use a kernel from the nand and rootfs from the sd card. then in the output i needed to replace mmcblk0 with sda |
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| 19:15.01 | Ghiottone | wow. can I see the graph? |
| 19:16.18 | tuukkah | sure: http://tuukka.iki.fi/tmp/bootchart-sd.png |
| 19:17.39 | xkr47 | tuukkah, awesome express! |
| 19:18.51 | xkr47 | tuukkah, have you put that in the wiki ? |
| 19:19.10 | tuukkah | nope, i don't know if it's good enough yet |
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| 19:19.17 | tuukkah | but we could start a page for bootcharts |
| 19:19.28 | xkr47 | one for each release |
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| 19:22.07 | daltona | does anybody has problems with the mailing lists ? |
| 19:22.10 | tuukkah | i think it's telling how in this sd chart mount takes the most cpu, and in the nand chart ldconfig takes the most cpu. here it takes the most io |
| 19:22.53 | tuukkah | so is nand really so cpu-intensive to use or could there be a bug in the driver? |
| 19:22.55 | edistar_ | does the mailinglist still work? |
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| 19:24.05 | xkr47 | tuukkah, that was for sd, do you have a similar one for the internal memory card ? |
| 19:24.40 | tuukkah | xkr47, we don't get io stats for the nand |
| 19:24.49 | SpeedEvil | If any new files in dirs mentioned in /etc/ld.so.conf - then run it |
| 19:24.51 | SpeedEvil | actually |
| 19:25.01 | SpeedEvil | directory dates should work fine |
| 19:26.00 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, it doesn't make sense to run in boot time since you don't install libraries while the system is off :-) |
| 19:26.01 | daltona | SpeedEvil, don't you think it can be implemented by checking the cache directory date vs the libs dirs dates ? |
| 19:26.23 | tuukkah | ipkg takes care of ldconfig when new libraries are installed |
| 19:26.28 | daltona | with dpkg install ldconfig is run while installing, not at boot I think |
| 19:26.41 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 19:26.44 | daltona | so ldconfig should not be called by init then... |
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| 19:27.27 | tuukkah | daltona, debian etch doesn't seem to call anymore |
| 19:27.32 | SpeedEvil | Something like if find `cat /etc/ld.so.conf` -maxdepth 0 -cnewer /etc/ld.so.cache ; then ldconfig; fi |
| 19:27.46 | SpeedEvil | if find on the neo supported cnewer |
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| 19:28.16 | SpeedEvil | Actually - ignore that |
| 19:28.28 | SpeedEvil | finds return value means nothing |
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| 19:29.47 | daltona | SpeedEvil, you can do it with -exec |
| 19:29.50 | tuukkah | i think it's the same thing as with depmod. it used to run during each boot but now only runs when a new kernel or modules are installed |
| 19:29.57 | daltona | if it finds something |
| 19:30.02 | SpeedEvil | True |
| 19:30.17 | tuukkah | we don't want ldconfig run several times! |
| 19:30.18 | SpeedEvil | The right way is to run it at lib install time, but that's fragile |
| 19:30.54 | tuukkah | how debian can be so radical as to do the fragile thing? |
| 19:31.03 | xkr47 | daltona, niice |
| 19:31.30 | SpeedEvil | -exec touch updateld |
| 19:31.40 | SpeedEvil | works of course - then run ldconfig if the file exists |
| 19:31.47 | SpeedEvil | but find doesn't support cnewer |
| 19:32.10 | tuukkah | you can do a while loop in shell with test |
| 19:32.11 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: I saw your photo of plugtest.py - what exactly does your proof-of-concept... prove? :) |
| 19:32.14 | SpeedEvil | true |
| 19:32.52 | tuukkah | abraxa_, that i can have an external c app do all the video rendering directly to my python app window |
| 19:33.33 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Ohh, nice. Mind if I check it out? |
| 19:33.40 | tuukkah | abraxa_, the script is http://tuukka.iki.fi/tmp/plugtest.py |
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| 19:34.28 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Thanks :) |
| 19:34.45 | daltona | I think that busybox can be configured to support it... |
| 19:34.50 | tuukkah | i read somewhere this is *not* the way browser plugins work but how they *should* work. and actually they do work like that in konqueror |
| 19:35.11 | daltona | I\ll have a look |
| 19:35.15 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Hehe, never saw GTK in Python before... nice |
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| 19:36.28 | tuukkah | abraxa_, you can mostly look at it like GTK in C, it's just much less typing (in both senses of the word ;-) |
| 19:37.10 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Yeah... looks nice. And I assume the -wid parameter tells mplayer to use the window ID of the pyGTK window for video display? |
| 19:37.38 | tuukkah | abraxa_, yes, window id of the gtk.Socket widget, actually |
| 19:37.51 | xkr47 | tuukkah, :) |
| 19:38.23 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Yeah. So I can have it display in pretty much any widget... very neat. Thank you for this hint, muchly appreciated =) |
| 19:38.45 | Ghiottone | back finally |
| 19:38.48 | tuukkah | xkr47, ok here's the nand boot chart for comparison: http://tuukka.iki.fi/tmp/bootchart.png |
| 19:38.53 | Ghiottone | tuukkah nice graph indeed |
| 19:39.31 | xkr47 | some 5 secs omre |
| 19:39.41 | Ghiottone | the nand one is similar to the one I made |
| 19:40.02 | emdete | tuukkah: wow, how do you do that> |
| 19:40.11 | Ghiottone | what FS type have you got on the sd? |
| 19:40.15 | Ghiottone | emdete, with bootchart |
| 19:40.28 | tuukkah | abraxa_, what i hope is that openmoko-mediaplayer could be used as a dbus service: you create a Socket, send its id to the service, the service creates a Plug and connects it |
| 19:40.31 | emdete | what does bootchart need to run? |
| 19:40.57 | Ghiottone | emdete, bash and another package. all are available in open embedded |
| 19:41.30 | tuukkah | emdete, in the top of the charts you can see the kernel command line has additional init=/sbin/bootchartd |
| 19:42.16 | emdete | (i am asking because i would like to see that for the greenphone - have some trouble with that bootup ;) ) |
| 19:42.25 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: What kind of app would connect to that plug? |
| 19:42.28 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, the fs is ext3 |
| 19:42.59 | daltona | SpeedEvil, In the neo config, it seems that -cnewer does not exists but -newer does. It compares mtime |
| 19:43.05 | tuukkah | abraxa_, a mediaplayer gui :-) or a browser plugin |
| 19:43.22 | SpeedEvil | daltona: ah |
| 19:43.26 | SpeedEvil | daltona: that'd do |
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| 19:45.18 | daltona | but in the neo, there are no /etc/ld.so.cache wonder where it is... |
| 19:45.27 | tuukkah | abraxa_, i wonder if it would also save memory when one dbus service process can take care of video playing/html rendering/other complex stuff of each running application |
| 19:45.52 | abraxa_ | tuukkah: Ahh, I see. The media player incorporate gstreamer's A/V capabilities and show them in its own window - letting apps specify a different window through d-bus seems a little complex - writing a simpler "video host" for other apps to incorporate might be better |
| 19:46.10 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, if you start ldconfig twice in a row, the second time it is much faster |
| 19:46.11 | abraxa_ | will incorporate* |
| 19:46.37 | tuukkah | hmm.... =) /var/run/ld.so.cache |
| 19:46.48 | daltona | yes. |
| 19:46.55 | daltona | so it is dropped at each boot... |
| 19:47.00 | tuukkah | so we actually need to run it at each boot if it's there |
| 19:47.07 | daltona | that's why ldconfig is called |
| 19:47.11 | Ghiottone | we could prevent its dropping? |
| 19:47.13 | tuukkah | i wonder if that's what we want... |
| 19:47.26 | daltona | let see whats the siwe of that file... |
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| 19:47.41 | daltona | not big... |
| 19:47.44 | tuukkah | 13k |
| 19:48.29 | daltona | but as it is modified a lot, it may explain why it's not in the flash. it would cause unecessary writes |
| 19:48.39 | daltona | but I'm still not convinced. |
| 19:48.48 | tuukkah | not a lot, only these 13k when new libraries are installed |
| 19:49.24 | tuukkah | btw in addition to /etc/ld.so.conf we need to search /lib and /usr/lib of course |
| 19:49.40 | daltona | yes I noticed that |
| 19:49.49 | SpeedEvil | Trivial way is to put those dirs in that file |
| 19:50.02 | Ghiottone | ld.so.cache is in /var/run which is mounted out of volatile space each boot |
| 19:50.22 | SpeedEvil | That makes sense if you want to run ldconfig each boot |
| 19:50.27 | SpeedEvil | I think it makes sense to move it out. |
| 19:50.56 | Ghiottone | where is its location specified? |
| 19:51.08 | daltona | in the ldconfig binary |
| 19:51.18 | daltona | just did a strings /sbin/ldconfig... |
| 19:51.18 | SpeedEvil | is it -C? |
| 19:51.20 | tuukkah | abraxa_, i think you're right, openmoko-mediaplayer is not like mplayer but just a gui over gstreamer and we can have other interfaces over gstreamer too |
| 19:51.33 | SpeedEvil | you can tell ldconfig -C /filetocacheto |
| 19:51.48 | SpeedEvil | at least the one I have on my box |
| 19:52.05 | daltona | fine |
| 19:52.11 | Ghiottone | but then each next time it will have to be called with that -C |
| 19:52.18 | Ghiottone | and we can't change ipkg scripts |
| 19:52.25 | tuukkah | umm doesn't ld-linux.so also need to contain the same file path? |
| 19:53.01 | daltona | yes |
| 19:53.28 | tuukkah | =) strings /lib/ld-linux.so.3|grep ld.so.cache |
| 19:53.50 | daltona | we can still link /var/run/ld.so.cache to /etc/ld.so.cache before calling ldconfig and the trick is done ! |
| 19:54.14 | tuukkah | unless it uses rm on the old file |
| 19:55.34 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, It is much faster if you call it twice so I think it does not |
| 19:56.08 | Ghiottone | I'm just about to make a test |
| 19:56.14 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, i mean when it notices that it needs to recreate the cache |
| 19:57.05 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, when there is this need than better if it does its work |
| 19:57.20 | Ghiottone | s/than/then it is/ |
| 19:57.42 | Ghiottone | but I would just update the cache, if I was him |
| 19:57.47 | SpeedEvil | Ghiottone: that'll be because the files are all in memory cache |
| 19:57.47 | Ghiottone | or her... |
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| 19:58.06 | Ghiottone | mmm did not think about some memory cache |
| 19:58.34 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, yeah but see, if it uses rm, then it'll remove the symlink and the file on flash will become stale |
| 19:58.57 | SpeedEvil | make symlink immutable |
| 19:59.00 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, greate point. |
| 19:59.03 | SpeedEvil | actually - no |
| 19:59.07 | SpeedEvil | you can't do that can you |
| 19:59.15 | Ghiottone | SpeedEvil, that would cause an error |
| 19:59.21 | Ghiottone | and probably make ldconfig stop |
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| 20:04.33 | dkr | ah, finally found answer to my question in the faq submission page in forum. surprised it wasn't in the wiki already. (The obvious question about when gta_02 phones are expected) I want accelerometers so I can make(or modify) cool apps that use them for user input. :) |
| 20:04.39 | bedboi | guys what version of dbus are you using on openmoko? |
| 20:05.20 | SpeedEvil | dkr: would you be interested in an accelerometer thingy for $50 for your neo? |
| 20:05.34 | SpeedEvil | If you have one |
| 20:05.49 | SpeedEvil | me is currently constructing |
| 20:05.50 | dkr | I don't yet, was waiting on gta_02 |
| 20:06.01 | tuukkah | bedboi, there's http://buildhost.openmoko.org/OM2007.2/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/dbus-1_1.0.2-r3_armv4t.ipk |
| 20:06.09 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 20:07.18 | bedboi | ah cool, it is 1.0.x |
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| 20:08.35 | tuukkah | bedboi, are you working on something with openmoko and dbus? |
| 20:08.47 | bedboi | i would, i still need to get the phone |
| 20:09.11 | bedboi | i'm working in the FIND (Future INternet Design) project (NSF founded) |
| 20:09.18 | bedboi | we are planning to use the neo too |
| 20:09.38 | SpeedEvil | What's FIND? |
| 20:09.45 | SpeedEvil | better protocols and stuff? |
| 20:09.48 | bedboi | yep |
| 20:09.52 | SpeedEvil | guaranteed bandwidth, ... |
| 20:09.52 | bedboi | better architecture |
| 20:09.58 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: all that. |
| 20:10.08 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: plus getting rid of IP |
| 20:10.20 | SpeedEvil | In some ways tcp/ip suffered from not having design review. |
| 20:10.26 | bedboi | (well for the moment it's not true) |
| 20:10.30 | SpeedEvil | In other ways, it benefited. |
| 20:11.03 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: companies just push the networking research to the direction they want |
| 20:11.08 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@rosine66.inf.fu-berlin.de) |
| 20:11.12 | Elrond | Good evening for short. :) |
| 20:11.13 | bedboi | RFC's are company driven |
| 20:11.25 | SpeedEvil | The scary thing is if they manage to get net-aneutrality in. |
| 20:11.37 | SpeedEvil | And there are powerful interests for it. |
| 20:11.39 | bedboi | what you mean? |
| 20:11.45 | bedboi | ah managed networks? |
| 20:11.50 | bedboi | stuff like that? |
| 20:11.52 | Weiss | has everyone else been getting OpenMoko list emails recently? specifically community and announce - I haven't received anything for about 22 hours, and the archives has posts during that period |
| 20:12.19 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - BTW: I've met alphaone and Shoragan today :) |
| 20:12.20 | bedboi | Weiss: do you miss not receiving 20 mails per second? |
| 20:12.28 | SpeedEvil | If - for example, ISPs can deliver preferential performance to |
| 20:12.38 | SpeedEvil | paying hosts, bad stuff happens |
| 20:12.46 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: well, there's a lot of debate about thta |
| 20:12.46 | SpeedEvil | Weiss: and it's down here |
| 20:13.11 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: i was at a conference (Networking 2006), there was this cisco guy talking about "walled gardens" |
| 20:13.12 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: yes. Indeed. I'm of the view that ISPs charge the end users for all the costs. |
| 20:13.50 | tuukkah | it would be like toll roads is suppose |
| 20:13.51 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: he received a lot of "questions" |
| 20:14.04 | bedboi | tuukkah: something like that. |
| 20:14.10 | SpeedEvil | Walled gardens are wonderful - for the companies. |
| 20:14.18 | SpeedEvil | Not so much for the users. |
| 20:14.40 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: design by a small group of clueful people almost always yields better results than design by committee |
| 20:14.41 | SpeedEvil | Want news? 10p/headline. Sports clips? 10p/clip |
| 20:14.55 | cw666 | tcp/ip isn't anywhere nearly as bad as some more recent related nastied |
| 20:14.56 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: exactly, that was the criticism all the researchers rose |
| 20:15.04 | cw666 | s/nastied/nasties/ |
| 20:15.15 | SpeedEvil | cw666: as long as they have decent armament to beat off hte hordes of others that want to install crap in a clean protocol. |
| 20:15.19 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: btw we are heading something really different. |
| 20:15.29 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: we don't care much about that. |
| 20:15.48 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: personally, i'm strongly against walled gardens and shit like that |
| 20:15.54 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: when it comes to the internet and modern sw/IT there will always be hordes of morons wanting to shoehorn in their crap without really thinking it through |
| 20:15.56 | SpeedEvil | Pricing protocols for guaranteed bandwidth? |
| 20:16.08 | SpeedEvil | Is there an FAQ page? |
| 20:16.19 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: mobility |
| 20:16.29 | bedboi | our major concern is about seamless mobility |
| 20:16.47 | SpeedEvil | That's handy, yes, rather than pretending with VPN |
| 20:16.53 | bedboi | no no |
| 20:16.56 | bedboi | vpn are shitty |
| 20:17.03 | bedboi | and they are not transparent |
| 20:17.07 | bedboi | it's just a patch to IP :) |
| 20:17.14 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-191-182.38-151.net24.it) |
| 20:17.17 | bedboi | a workaround |
| 20:17.39 | SpeedEvil | I imagine authorisation is fun. |
| 20:17.46 | bedboi | yep, "fun" |
| 20:18.04 | bedboi | it's so bad. But that's one of the most difficult part |
| 20:18.14 | Ghiottone | it seems that ldconfig ignores the symbolic link |
| 20:18.20 | bedboi | i mean, designing something that just scales |
| 20:18.23 | SpeedEvil | And doing another WEP would be bad. |
| 20:18.36 | cw666 | bedboi: im missed the topic here, what is the goal? |
| 20:18.51 | bedboi | well it's a project about future internet design |
| 20:18.52 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, what does ignore mean here? |
| 20:19.41 | Ghiottone | that I have tried to set up the link as in ln -sf just before ldconfig gets called |
| 20:19.50 | daltona | anybody has admin access to mokoprojects site ? |
| 20:19.53 | Ghiottone | but at restart the file is there and it is not a link |
| 20:20.02 | daltona | my project's CVS is not working... |
| 20:20.08 | SpeedEvil | Ghiottone: ldconfig -C /etc/ld.so.cache |
| 20:20.11 | SpeedEvil | to write it |
| 20:20.16 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: btw we have a prototype of just a small part of the project |
| 20:20.20 | SpeedEvil | and then the link should work for reading |
| 20:20.23 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: the cool stuff is NO NAT! |
| 20:20.29 | bedboi | that's what i love more. |
| 20:20.32 | SpeedEvil | NAT is rather evil. |
| 20:20.39 | bedboi | damn evil |
| 20:20.46 | SpeedEvil | What about cryptographically authenticated packets for slow links? |
| 20:21.02 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, we couldn't use -C because ldconfig is called from ipkg etc? |
| 20:21.03 | bedboi | you don't have to authenticate all packets |
| 20:21.18 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: you just have to be sure that there's no "impersonation" attack |
| 20:21.31 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: you do if you are paying $.1 per K |
| 20:21.50 | bedboi | what? |
| 20:21.50 | SpeedEvil | Topic change - sorry. Not talking about impersonation |
| 20:21.57 | bedboi | ah ok |
| 20:21.58 | SpeedEvil | but expensive mobile connections |
| 20:22.15 | Ghiottone | SpeedEvil, ok I'll try. but I fear that next ldconfig will overwrite the link |
| 20:22.22 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: i'm not following |
| 20:22.48 | SpeedEvil | You have a slow expensive link - say a mobile phone.of hosts, or a |
| 20:22.52 | bedboi | yep |
| 20:22.53 | bedboi | ok |
| 20:22.54 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e70cc9b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:22.58 | Ghiottone | daltona, neither my svn is working on projects.openmoko |
| 20:23.00 | daltona | So we can just copy /etc/ld.so.conf to /var/run/... on boot, before ldconfig runs and then put it back to /etc on shutdown |
| 20:23.01 | SpeedEvil | You don't want anyone to be able to send you packets |
| 20:23.13 | SpeedEvil | as then bad stuff happens to your bill. |
| 20:23.40 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: hmm, i'm not sure i got your point |
| 20:23.55 | daltona | Ghiottone, that concerns me because I really want my project to be in CVS in order to keep track of versions |
| 20:24.14 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: if you don't want to receive nothing why are you connected ? :) |
| 20:24.22 | daltona | I have a local CVS, but I would really prefer a moko official one... |
| 20:24.30 | SpeedEvil | Expensive phone connection. Pckets can be sent by anyone. |
| 20:24.44 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: including those virus infected probing, and stuff. |
| 20:24.54 | Ghiottone | ok using -C has made it use the old file |
| 20:25.04 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:25.07 | Ghiottone | but I think there is no earn |
| 20:25.10 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: it would be nice to be contactable - but only by those with a key. And to be able to revoke that key |
| 20:25.18 | Ghiottone | I'm now about to create a bootchart |
| 20:25.24 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: yep, that would not be difficult to do |
| 20:25.28 | bedboi | in this new architecture |
| 20:25.55 | bedboi | you can say i want to receive just from entities that I have contacted first (something like you do with iptables) |
| 20:26.04 | SpeedEvil | Of course - in the future, bandwidth will be free! |
| 20:26.10 | bedboi | yep of course. |
| 20:26.12 | *** join/#openmoko bextro (n=bextro@pD95FEEAA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:26.13 | bedboi | and no taxes |
| 20:26.17 | bedboi | and free girls i guess |
| 20:26.18 | mjr | "in the year 2000" |
| 20:26.31 | bedboi | What about free beer? |
| 20:26.33 | bedboi | i want that |
| 20:26.39 | SpeedEvil | That's not quite what I was meaning - I want to be able to specify hosts that I may not have contacted before. |
| 20:26.48 | SpeedEvil | for example, other mobiles. |
| 20:26.57 | bedboi | yep, you could do that |
| 20:27.07 | bedboi | of course. This architecture would be very expressive. |
| 20:27.12 | bedboi | it's not a matter of IP's |
| 20:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 20:27.37 | bedboi | it's a matter of personality. You can attach whatever you want to your identity (or just your position without any further informations) |
| 20:27.46 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADA4A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:28.10 | bedboi | actually it opens the door to a really big research area |
| 20:28.15 | bedboi | functional networking |
| 20:28.17 | bedboi | for instance |
| 20:29.14 | SpeedEvil | functional networking? |
| 20:29.31 | Ghiottone | daltona, yeah. I would like to have it working too. so that I could put my sources there and then create some bb recipes |
| 20:30.09 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: it is putting intelligence in network devices. |
| 20:30.27 | SpeedEvil | That'll be fun at terabit speeds :) |
| 20:30.32 | bedboi | yep |
| 20:30.32 | daltona | Ghiottone, Interrested by the new bootchart... |
| 20:30.34 | bedboi | so fun |
| 20:30.50 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: we will have infinite CPU throughput (and free) |
| 20:31.19 | SpeedEvil | What would be good to install would be a micropayment and billing scheme. |
| 20:31.19 | bedboi | i will push the electron to higher speed than light |
| 20:31.26 | Ghiottone | in process. I fear it will be the same |
| 20:32.02 | daltona | Ghiottone, I don't think as removing ldconfig from bootmisc decreased the boot time of my neo... |
| 20:32.09 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: "No porn routed to my child" |
| 20:32.19 | bedboi | it's quite sci-fi |
| 20:32.30 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-191-182.38-151.net24.it) |
| 20:32.39 | SpeedEvil | In some ways that's a problem, as you've then got to tag porn. |
| 20:32.46 | bedboi | and btw it's not my field of research i'm much more about TCP congestion control |
| 20:33.30 | SpeedEvil | Which means that you've got to have someone that decides what porn is |
| 20:33.30 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: which is questionable. |
| 20:33.44 | Ghiottone | is openmoko some kind of geek porn?? |
| 20:33.57 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: the best thing is to develop a synthetic version of a porn addict in the router |
| 20:34.03 | bedboi | with an arousal level |
| 20:34.07 | bedboi | and thresholding that level |
| 20:34.25 | bedboi | Ghiottone: it is. |
| 20:34.26 | *** join/#openmoko jlf (n=user@209.204.171.109) |
| 20:34.27 | Ghiottone | new bootchart show slightly worst results and the link is in place |
| 20:34.49 | Ghiottone | it means that ldconfig uses an in memory cache |
| 20:35.01 | jlf | hello, does anyone know if openmoko will be supporting tmobile wing / htc herald? |
| 20:35.04 | Ghiottone | I'll try removing from the script and see how much is the gain |
| 20:35.09 | daltona | Ghiottone, interresting |
| 20:35.53 | SpeedEvil | jlf: at the moment, it barely supports the Neo1973 |
| 20:36.17 | SpeedEvil | jlf: other hardware support is going to be user-based for the forseeable future. |
| 20:36.28 | SpeedEvil | At least, large amounts of hardware support |
| 20:36.43 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 20:37.04 | XorA | jlf: more like OE will start to support devices, then OM can be slightly adapted |
| 20:38.16 | jlf | XorA: sorry, what's OE? |
| 20:38.29 | XorA | jlf: Open Embedded, what is used to build OM |
| 20:39.00 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-n800 (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 20:39.07 | jlf | ah, thanks. i've been waiting for the general consumption neo1973 but there's a vg deal on the wing atm |
| 20:39.10 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2485.bb.online.no) |
| 20:41.13 | roh | Ghiottone about openmoko beeing geep pr0n... that depends how hard you are into s&m ;) |
| 20:42.16 | Ghiottone | roh, eheheh :) |
| 20:43.09 | *** join/#openmoko grasu (n=christia@e181068133.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:43.38 | mjr | you know, about the complaints that the Neo could be smaller, I *ungh* agree |
| 20:43.52 | grasu | how do I force the build system to refetch the psplash pkg? |
| 20:44.14 | daltona | grasu, bitbake -c rebuild psplash I think |
| 20:44.39 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADA4A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:44.42 | Ghiottone | grasu, you have to remove the stamps file from build/tmp/stamps/arm*/ |
| 20:45.22 | grasu | already removed /build/tmp/stamps/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/psplash-0.0+svnr249-r9.do_fetch |
| 20:45.34 | grasu | but it does not do it |
| 20:45.53 | rwhitby-n800 | or make rebuild-package-psplash with mokomakefile |
| 20:45.55 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 20:46.12 | Ghiottone | grasu, remove the unpack as well |
| 20:46.19 | Ghiottone | and then do the rebuild |
| 20:46.27 | grasu | I removed all of them |
| 20:46.44 | Ghiottone | oh yeah |
| 20:46.47 | Ghiottone | stupid I am |
| 20:46.56 | Ghiottone | there should be a tar.gz in source dir |
| 20:47.07 | Ghiottone | s/source/sources/ |
| 20:47.13 | Ghiottone | I did that a lot of time... |
| 20:47.26 | Ghiottone | results for new bootchart are interesting |
| 20:47.42 | Ghiottone | it needs 162 seconds instead of 194 seconds |
| 20:49.45 | grasu | I tried make rebuild |
| 20:50.06 | grasu | but it still complains about the missing tar.gz |
| 20:50.33 | Ghiottone | grasu, it could have recreated the stamps |
| 20:50.37 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, you can put charts here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootcharts |
| 20:51.02 | *** part/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 20:51.19 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_ (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 20:52.31 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, ok |
| 20:52.55 | Lynet | Looks like ldconfig is eating a lot of time. |
| 20:53.22 | daltona | Ghiottone, So we have to find a way to store the cache in flash or to delay the execution |
| 20:54.42 | tuukkah | daltona, we could simply change ldconfig and ld-linux.so to use the default location again :-) |
| 20:54.54 | Lynet | Isn't it possible to pre-make ld.so.cache? And if necessary, recalculate it when new software is installed. |
| 20:55.19 | tuukkah | that's how it works, yes |
| 20:55.24 | daltona | tuukkah, yes of course |
| 20:55.48 | mwester | Check to see if /etc/default/volatiles/00_core can modified to automagically create the correct link to a place in flash to store ld.so.cache. |
| 20:55.48 | daltona | don't know why a volatile location was chosen |
| 20:55.58 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, thanks for the credits:) the bootchart is on the wiki |
| 20:55.59 | daltona | it must have a reason |
| 20:56.28 | Ghiottone | I don't think that saving cache will work |
| 20:56.34 | tuukkah | daltona, in deed |
| 20:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@m0f0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 20:56.58 | Ghiottone | I think that ldconfig checks the in memory cache |
| 20:57.21 | Ghiottone | that could as well be internal kernel or buffers for .so objects |
| 20:57.46 | Ghiottone | if the memory cache is not there, it needs a lot of time even if it finds its cache |
| 20:58.02 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, well you tested and the boot became much faster? |
| 20:58.18 | Ghiottone | as the time it took in bootchart was the same as before when I told it to use /etc/ld.so.cache |
| 20:58.27 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, yes, but without running ldconfig |
| 20:58.34 | tuukkah | oh ok |
| 20:58.57 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__9 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-1d48b0e420cd5034) |
| 20:59.05 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, interestingly, you can see now programs that sleeps with I/O |
| 20:59.27 | tuukkah | wow :-) |
| 20:59.44 | Ghiottone | probably ldconfig causes some kind of prefetching or precaching |
| 21:02.55 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A712f.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 21:03.01 | hhf423 | re |
| 21:03.45 | hhf423 | did anyone play with gllin in chroot? |
| 21:04.42 | SpeedEvil | I see no reason why it won't work. |
| 21:05.06 | Ghiottone | hey hhf423 |
| 21:05.21 | hhf423 | hi Ghiottone |
| 21:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e70cc9b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:05.34 | SpeedEvil | Go vegetarian! |
| 21:05.35 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 21:05.36 | hhf423 | I get "permission denied" for gllin |
| 21:05.58 | Ghiottone | where did you get it? |
| 21:06.11 | Ghiottone | I thought it was only present in phase 0 phones |
| 21:06.12 | hhf423 | I don't get it, I checked the whole chroot and did a chown -R root.root |
| 21:06.15 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: on 2007.2? |
| 21:06.28 | SpeedEvil | .1 rather |
| 21:06.34 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: yes, on 2007.2 |
| 21:06.40 | SpeedEvil | with a .1 chroot? |
| 21:06.43 | hhf423 | yes |
| 21:07.07 | mjr | Ghiottone, apparently some of the p0 list were evil and have told other people the number |
| 21:07.07 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F63003.versanet.de) |
| 21:07.38 | Ghiottone | mjr, eh I see! |
| 21:08.09 | mjr | (should really try that chroot thing myself..) |
| 21:08.58 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, I don't think bootchart is taking that much cpu. I tried running it with start and then stop for a few seconds while doing some ls, find commands. |
| 21:09.01 | hhf423 | why could I get permission denied? |
| 21:09.13 | SpeedEvil | strace |
| 21:09.29 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, cpu usage started when I called stop when bootchartd probably gathered the results |
| 21:09.40 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: strace and then the command? |
| 21:10.09 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, did you use 0.1 or 1 second sampling? |
| 21:10.43 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: have you tried just running ash in the chroot? |
| 21:10.44 | tuukkah | hhf423, strace -e trace=file gives much less output |
| 21:10.59 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, 0.1 but disabled process accounting as I got an error and it refused to start with it enabled |
| 21:11.33 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@adsl-dyn19.91-127-1.t-com.sk) |
| 21:11.33 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@p4FD67722.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:11.44 | hhf423 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:12.02 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: ash? |
| 21:12.12 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: do you have all the libs required? |
| 21:12.30 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, isn't process accounting the largest part of work bootchart does? anyway, i had it take a lot of cpu but i will be happy if there's a way around that |
| 21:13.00 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: I think so |
| 21:13.11 | tuukkah | chroot ash |
| 21:13.32 | tuukkah | doesn't work quite like that but you get the point. the shell |
| 21:14.05 | Ghiottone | my last chart has been created with this config |
| 21:14.31 | SpeedEvil | chroot /path/to/chroot/root ash |
| 21:15.02 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 21:15.40 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, ok so with "process accounting" you meant the acct stuff |
| 21:15.50 | Ghiottone | yes |
| 21:16.05 | Ghiottone | this name is used in bootchartd |
| 21:16.11 | hhf423 | hmm |
| 21:16.19 | hhf423 | before or after screen? |
| 21:16.49 | tuukkah | no need for screen here? |
| 21:17.58 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, there must be something wrong in my system then... |
| 21:18.14 | Ghiottone | why? |
| 21:18.27 | Ghiottone | that 90% cpu usage you told me this afternoon? |
| 21:18.32 | Ghiottone | can you put that online? |
| 21:18.54 | tuukkah | the charts you mean? |
| 21:19.23 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: sorry, I don't get it. would that be chroot /home/root/chroot/ ash ? |
| 21:19.41 | grasu | Ghiottone, didn |
| 21:19.46 | grasu | ups |
| 21:19.57 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, yes |
| 21:20.18 | grasu | well it didn't work I manually had to refetch the files |
| 21:20.32 | grasu | thank you all anyway |
| 21:21.35 | Ghiottone | grasu, strange :/ |
| 21:22.10 | Ghiottone | did you remove only the tar.gz or also the .lock and .md5 files? |
| 21:22.37 | grasu | I think only the tar.gz |
| 21:22.52 | grasu | well anyway it works now |
| 21:23.18 | tuukkah | http://tuukka.iki.fi/tmp/sleep-0.1.png and the middle of http://tuukka.iki.fi/tmp/sleep-1.png |
| 21:27.37 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, strange graphs indeed. I do not understand 0.1 at all. is that first 5 seconds? |
| 21:28.02 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, in the second graph I can't explain that period of lower cpu usage before the end of boot |
| 21:28.32 | tuukkah | the first is taken after boot when the system was idle otherwise with bootchartd start sleep 5 |
| 21:28.45 | hhf423 | strace also does not give any more cues |
| 21:29.12 | tuukkah | the second is where i put sleep 60 to /etc/matchbox/session |
| 21:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 21:30.32 | SpeedEvil | What might be interesting would be to swiitch it to 50Mhz mode if higher resolutoin was needed |
| 21:30.42 | hhf423 | ah well, off to sleep then |
| 21:30.53 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: if theroot is |
| 21:30.55 | SpeedEvil | oh well |
| 21:31.29 | Ghiottone | fastest go to sleep-er ever existed! |
| 21:32.16 | Ghiottone | roh, should we report to you problems we experience with projects.openmoko.org |
| 21:32.19 | Ghiottone | roh, ? |
| 21:33.00 | *** join/#openmoko dotmef (n=mef@mx1.bitwise.org) |
| 21:36.08 | tuukkah | i ran "time dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=/dev/null" and now X is frozen and all commands over ssh result in"Input/output error" |
| 21:36.28 | Ghiottone | wow |
| 21:36.47 | Ghiottone | try adding count=some value |
| 21:37.16 | tuukkah | all i wanted to do was test the speed of the memory, i didn't want to get io errors %-) |
| 21:37.47 | tuukkah | yeah perhaps it went past the end of device or something |
| 21:38.54 | mwester | Worked fine on my p1 unit (I added "bs=4096" though) |
| 21:40.28 | roh | Ghiottone oeh.. into bugzilla |
| 21:40.56 | Ghiottone | roh, ok |
| 21:42.58 | roh | Ghiottone actually.. i have projects.openmoko.org on my todo.. to check whats the situation and what needs to be done |
| 21:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko Weiss (n=taw27@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) |
| 21:44.46 | Ghiottone | roh, ok so we have to wait, do we? |
| 21:44.58 | mickeyl | does anyone know a free sans serif font that's not so ubiquitous as Vera (DejaVu doesn't count) but has the same quality? |
| 21:45.08 | roh | actually... we'll see... is it about approval of new projects? |
| 21:45.36 | tuukkah | mwester, after a reset, your version worked once and hung on the second try, same thing as last time: ctrl-c doesn't work, but ctrl-z gets back to shell but all commands give io error |
| 21:45.40 | Ghiottone | roh, no. the project was approved. after a week or so, but it was approved |
| 21:46.02 | Ghiottone | roh, problem is that the subversion repository seem to be missing |
| 21:46.15 | Ghiottone | roh, so I cannot put the code in the project |
| 21:46.30 | roh | ah.. i see... |
| 21:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 21:47.21 | Ghiottone | roh, I think that it simply has not been created |
| 21:48.08 | tuukkah | dmesg worked though probably because i had run it recently and latest messages where "<4>Erase at 0x006dc000 failed immediately: errno -5" and also in 0x006d8000, 0x006d4000, 0x006d0000 |
| 21:49.13 | Elrond | mickeyl - Hi. :-) |
| 21:49.17 | mickeyl | hi elrond |
| 21:49.38 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: I've been staying away from projects.openmoko.org for mokomakefile until the anon svn access situation is fixed and there is someone assigned to maintaining it (I believe the sysadmin comes on board next week?) |
| 21:50.34 | rwhitby | Then I will see what the response time is for a "there is a hung transaction in my svn repo on projects.om.org" and then decide whether to move mokomakefile back there. |
| 21:50.53 | Elrond | mickeyl - alphaone and Shoragan are having fun in Darmstadt. ;) |
| 21:50.56 | rwhitby | (hopefully they already use fsfs and not bdb backend for the svn server) |
| 21:51.04 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@157-236-210-63-arpa.cust.cinci.current.net) |
| 21:51.15 | mickeyl | Elrond: cool. if all goes well, I'm going to come over for a coffee tomorrow |
| 21:51.39 | roh | rwhitby: ack. the sysadmin will take care of keeping it working and michael and me will take care of approving |
| 21:51.50 | Elrond | mickeyl - Greet them again. I'm probably on a tour or so. |
| 21:51.54 | mickeyl | k |
| 21:54.16 | mwester | Any word on the GPS driver for P1? |
| 21:55.13 | roh | mwester the eabi binary is underway, but does not work yet (it did for oabi.. but that doesnt help now) |
| 21:55.27 | cw666 | roh: it will be more-or-less the same binary then? |
| 21:55.39 | cw666 | roh: i ask this because i think i found a problem with the oabi one that ideally should be sorted |
| 21:56.31 | anrp | sorted! |
| 21:56.47 | Elrond | mwester - I'm currently updating my desktop, when that is done, I can update to eabi, after which I'll hopefully be motivated again to work on sphyrna ;-) |
| 21:56.56 | roh | cw666 i havent tried it yet, and still have not seen documentation about its proper usage.. so i dunno |
| 21:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:57.41 | cw666 | roh: anyhow, if i let the phone 'suspend' (pull PM mode as much as that's anything now) but leave the modem on, and gllin running, on resume/wake it never seems to get a fix again |
| 21:57.43 | Elrond | mickeyl - BTW: What's the difference on those three uboot versions on buildhost? (for Bv3 for example) |
| 21:57.54 | cw666 | roh: so i have to make sure everything is at full power when poking about |
| 21:58.00 | cw666 | also, gllin wakes up A LOT |
| 21:58.05 | cw666 | it would be nice if it didn't do that |
| 21:58.19 | Elrond | cw666 - It has to. |
| 21:58.35 | mickeyl | Elrond: no idea offhand. no one should use an untested uboot from buildhost |
| 21:58.35 | Elrond | cw666 - And the resume thing: Just delete nvram* and restart it. |
| 21:58.54 | cw666 | Elrond: restarting means it can take some time to get a fix |
| 21:59.01 | cw666 | Elrond: also, why does it have to wake all the time? |
| 21:59.10 | cw666 | Elrond: it's not talking to the chip most of those wakes |
| 21:59.20 | Elrond | cw666 - Yes, restarting will take a time. gllin is a bad driver. |
| 21:59.32 | cw666 | chances are it's all we'll have for some time |
| 21:59.38 | Elrond | cw666 - Huh. If it's not talking to the chip, it's even worse. :-| |
| 21:59.51 | mickeyl | so how's gllin supposed to work ? |
| 22:00.00 | mickeyl | is it a complete substitute for gpsd? |
| 22:00.05 | mickeyl | i.e. does it listen on TCP? |
| 22:00.17 | roh | mickeyl nope. it spits out nmea at a named pipe as far as i understood. |
| 22:00.23 | Elrond | mickeyl - No. It writes nmea to a named pipe. Nothing more. |
| 22:00.28 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 22:00.35 | polz | mickeyl: I thought gllin was a GSM daemon |
| 22:00.38 | polz | oops, GPS |
| 22:00.39 | mickeyl | how broken is that? |
| 22:00.40 | roh | mickeyl gpsd/a plugin for gpsd then gets the data and from there on its all opensource |
| 22:00.46 | cw666 | mickeyl: that's not a bad model really |
| 22:00.56 | cw666 | mickeyl: what should it do then? |
| 22:01.10 | mickeyl | well, namedpipe mode crashes here |
| 22:01.28 | mickeyl | however it listens on a udp socket |
| 22:01.30 | mickeyl | gllin 5506 root 6u IPv4 14252 UDP *:32768 |
| 22:01.33 | mickeyl | ? |
| 22:01.50 | cw666 | mickeyl: it can also spew stuff out a socket it looks like |
| 22:02.14 | roh | mickeyl i think there is the possibility to feed agps data from the gsm (when the modem supports that stuff and the carrier does use it) into the damon |
| 22:02.26 | roh | eventually the udp socket is for that |
| 22:03.19 | cw666 | the DOP values reported from gllin are also wrong as best as i can tell |
| 22:03.30 | cw666 | it's claiming accuracy that is can't have (at least for me) |
| 22:05.00 | dotmef | mickeyl - I take it that the Liberation fonts are no good for your needs. |
| 22:05.19 | mickeyl | no, they're too much windows font clones |
| 22:05.22 | Elrond | cw666 - I'm not surprised, really. |
| 22:05.23 | mickeyl | although the mono is very good |
| 22:05.31 | mickeyl | and openmoko-terminal2 uses it now |
| 22:05.50 | dotmef | mickeyl - cool. |
| 22:05.58 | Elrond | cw666 - The HH chip is a really fun thing. The driver just feels crap. |
| 22:06.07 | mickeyl | ya, finally a good font in om-terminal |
| 22:06.47 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, you seemed to be right about bootchart. I have tested it by waiting almost 10 minutes after booting the neo |
| 22:06.57 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-182-147.cust.broadway.se) |
| 22:07.04 | cw666 | Elrond: c++ for a driver is always a bad sign of fuckhead clueless hw vendor brandamage |
| 22:07.08 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, and processor usage stayed at 100% even after startup completed |
| 22:07.37 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, the previous test I did that showed 0% usage was with bootchart started manually after boot completed |
| 22:07.57 | mickeyl | hmm, what does GLLIN_WD mean? |
| 22:08.04 | mickeyl | working directory? |
| 22:09.47 | mickeyl | hmm oh |
| 22:10.00 | mickeyl | bbiab |
| 22:10.55 | Elrond | cw666 - Yeah. |
| 22:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@81.253.7.89) |
| 22:11.19 | Elrond | cw666 - Still, the chip is really a nice thingy. |
| 22:12.18 | tuukkah | Ghiottone, ok. how did you start it manually? something else than my bootchartd start sleep 60? |
| 22:12.20 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@berligate.hmw-consulting.de) |
| 22:12.26 | cw666 | Elrond: well, if the RE effort doesnt get far enough and we're at the mercy of the driver we've seen so far, or even the same code-base people, then im not sure i would hope for much |
| 22:13.02 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, yeah. simply bootchartd start |
| 22:13.08 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, then did some commands |
| 22:13.14 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, and then bootchartd stop |
| 22:14.16 | Ghiottone | tuukkah, mmm I have just noticed that phone was in PM mode. I'll try that test again |
| 22:14.16 | cw666 | Elrond: btw, with the chip how often does the CPU need to wake and poke about? |
| 22:15.24 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F5B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:22.17 | Elrond | cw666 - With good signal: Every 0.7sec or so. With bad signal: Every 1.5sec. |
| 22:22.23 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 22:22.25 | Elrond | cw666 - And then do some calculations, etc. |
| 22:24.53 | *** join/#openmoko drath (i=vmaster@p5B07DDDD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:25.48 | *** part/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@orion.thos.me.uk) |
| 22:26.15 | *** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:27.28 | cw666 | Elrond: can you trade wake ups for accuracy? |
| 22:29.52 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 22:32.49 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A712f.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 22:32.55 | hhf423 | re |
| 22:33.14 | hhf423 | did you see that? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/43091acec6b18755afc111cb45857f5c.png |
| 22:33.22 | rwhitby | mickeyl: do we want openocd in moko-autorev.inc? |
| 22:34.01 | mickeyl | rwhitby: yes |
| 22:34.24 | Elrond | cw666 - Not really. Good signal == integrators get filled up quicker. |
| 22:34.49 | cw666 | Elrond: i guess im dont really know how it works ... so waking every say 30s wouldn't be useful? |
| 22:34.57 | Elrond | cw666 - Hmm... thinking again about it: If you wake up earlier for bad signal, you get worse. ;o) |
| 22:35.30 | Elrond | cw666 - Every 30s: You'd probably need two or three shots to get a fix again. |
| 22:36.19 | cw666 | Elrond: how long is a shot? |
| 22:36.30 | Elrond | cw666 - The 0.7 - 1.3 sec from above. |
| 22:36.50 | Elrond | cw666 - You queue a shot on the chip, then the chip does the measurement for you. |
| 22:38.09 | cw666 | Elrond: so under 10s from waking? |
| 22:39.18 | Elrond | cw666 - So yes... One short every 30s is possible. But you shouldn't do bad things to the gps in that time, otherwise it has to say "Oh wait... you bad guy stopped my view of satelite number 13, I need that one" and will need a few (7) shots to look for other sats, which are visiable now. |
| 22:39.32 | Elrond | s/short/shot |
| 22:40.21 | cw666 | Elrond: where is all this information from? is there a URL i can get to read up on how this works in this case? |
| 22:41.07 | hhf423 | can anyone tell what I see here? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/43091acec6b18755afc111cb45857f5c.png |
| 22:41.34 | hhf423 | is that gllin based or "better"? |
| 22:41.46 | rwhitby | mickeyl: one very good side effect of srcrev is now when you do a new build, you can see exactly which apps you need to test for cool new features after flashing. |
| 22:41.49 | cw666 | gllin almost certainly |
| 22:42.09 | cw666 | $PGLOR is vendor specific and gllin spews it out, i doubt any other non-hh drivers would do that |
| 22:42.19 | mickeyl | well, yea |
| 22:42.28 | cw666 | it's also a dynamic format from the looks of this, unlike pretty much all over NMEA records (sigh) |
| 22:42.51 | Elrond | cw666 - Mostly based on my own research. sphyrna svn has some docs also. |
| 22:42.58 | hhf423 | cw666: hmm |
| 22:43.39 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@c-69-143-234-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:44.00 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=santacla@78.90.88.72) |
| 22:45.29 | rwhitby | ok, openocd is now srcrev based. I think that's the last one for things that MokoMakefile builds. |
| 22:45.46 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 22:46.09 | mickeyl | cool, thanks |
| 22:46.19 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
| 22:46.32 | rwhitby | Now to remove all date-based stamps and work dirs and see if any come back (except for Angstrom-version) |
| 22:46.40 | hhf423 | any news on usb host mode btw? |
| 22:47.17 | roh | hhf423 nope. thats lower prio than gps and gsm. |
| 22:47.44 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: works |
| 22:47.55 | mickeyl | hmm nothing |
| 22:47.58 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: apply patch in SVN, and the comment I made in bugzilla |
| 22:48.01 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 22:48.09 | SpeedEvil | mailing list - neo1973-kernel I think |
| 22:48.12 | mickeyl | would you know how i can test whether gllin does anything at all? |
| 22:48.13 | *** join/#openmoko crackfiend (n=chatzill@216.141.165.16) |
| 22:48.16 | Writchie | roh: is anyone working on suspend/resume? |
| 22:48.17 | SpeedEvil | I forget who had it working earlier |
| 22:48.21 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: run it |
| 22:48.24 | hhf423 | roh: Zeroping seems to have the necessary patch |
| 22:48.31 | rwhitby | excellent, the only floating datestamp is not angstrom-version (which is intentional) |
| 22:48.34 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: well, it runs. but there is no output |
| 22:48.38 | mickeyl | except two hal statements |
| 22:48.45 | roh | hhf423 ah.. nice.. then.. have fun playing with it |
| 22:48.45 | SpeedEvil | see [[GPS]] in the wiki |
| 22:48.58 | mickeyl | right |
| 22:49.04 | mickeyl | i should consult our own wiki more often |
| 22:49.06 | mickeyl | heh |
| 22:49.27 | rwhitby | s/not/now/ |
| 22:49.27 | hhf423 | mickeyl: let me know if you can make gllin do anything. I get permission denied |
| 22:49.54 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/dogll |
| 22:49.56 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: which bug number is usb host? |
| 22:49.57 | SpeedEvil | is the script I use |
| 22:50.04 | cw666 | roh: btw, how do we tell the modem to send interrupts? |
| 22:50.08 | cw666 | roh: so we can have it wake the CPU? |
| 22:50.17 | SpeedEvil | rwhi; sorry - it was not bugzilla - but mailing list |
| 22:50.19 | hhf423 | roh: well, Zeroping has a patch, but its not comitted yet |
| 22:50.19 | SpeedEvil | hang on |
| 22:50.28 | bedboi | mickeyl: are there any fresh news about shipping? I'm sure people is keep asking this silly questions |
| 22:50.49 | mickeyl | no new |
| 22:50.50 | mickeyl | s |
| 22:50.54 | mickeyl | otherwise we would publish them |
| 22:50.55 | rwhitby | heh - "cupcake" :-) |
| 22:51.01 | SpeedEvil | and 'dogllstrace' |
| 22:51.18 | SpeedEvil | which is similar - but straces and gzips to the media card |
| 22:51.39 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: cupcake? whats that? |
| 22:51.51 | rwhitby | So, now that we have build stability, is there anyone with outstanding build problems? |
| 22:52.32 | rwhitby | (cause now we can check their tyre pressure while the car is stationary) |
| 22:52.40 | Writchie | ;) |
| 22:52.47 | SpeedEvil | It's a binary that turned up in my email at one point. |
| 22:53.06 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: there are bluetooth tyre pressure monitors! |
| 22:53.07 | SpeedEvil | Where! |
| 22:53.09 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:53.09 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: is that a gllin for 2007.2? |
| 22:53.12 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 22:53.13 | cw666 | rwhitby: last i built i didnt get a new uboot, probably my bad though |
| 22:53.33 | rwhitby | cw666: were you expecting a new one? |
| 22:53.48 | rwhitby | (i.e. did it already have the latest one built?) |
| 22:53.59 | cw666 | rwhitby: i did a clobber and hoped i would get something, what im using now is old |
| 22:54.00 | Writchie | rwhitby: i got a new built on my build last night, but I suspect changes since then - do you recommend just an update now or rebuid from scratch? |
| 22:54.00 | rwhitby | (latest according to OE srcrev setting) |
| 22:54.24 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: but there are bt blood pressure measurement devices, bt weight measurement devices, bt blood oxygen level measurement ... |
| 22:55.44 | rwhitby | Writchie: if you rebuilt from scratch in the last couple of days an update should be all that's required. |
| 22:55.59 | Writchie | last build was scratch, tx |
| 22:56.03 | rwhitby | you might want to do a build from scatch anyway to get rid of all the incrementing date work dirs |
| 22:56.30 | rwhitby | (check our build/tmp/stamps/*/ dirs to see how bad that is) |
| 22:57.07 | cw666 | rwhitby: 'make clobber && make' ? |
| 22:57.37 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: so how does this work without chroot? |
| 22:57.57 | rwhitby | cw666: that should do it |
| 22:58.10 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: I'm still on 2007.1 |
| 22:58.12 | cw666 | rwhitby: tried that a few hours ago and it blew up |
| 22:58.15 | cw666 | let me try again |
| 22:58.23 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: ah, right |
| 22:58.36 | rwhitby | cw666: if that blows up I'll want to know about it |
| 22:58.54 | SpeedEvil | where is the motor? |
| 22:58.55 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 22:59.08 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: cupcake is what? gllin? |
| 22:59.24 | rwhitby | cw666: yeah - the program that shall not be named :-) |
| 23:00.27 | cw666 | im lost, given gllin is out there who cares if you name it? |
| 23:01.14 | rwhitby | well, someone who is not a P0 developer, who has access to gllin, is technically in possession of software without a valid license agreement |
| 23:01.49 | rwhitby | (as are the P0 developers, but at least they didn't go out and get it, it was given to them by FIC on the device without their express knowledge) |
| 23:01.49 | cw666 | rwhitby: really? a lawyer gave this opinion? |
| 23:02.22 | rwhitby | cw666: some people like to play it safe and assume that if FIC is not freely redistributing gllin, then there must be a reason for that. |
| 23:02.29 | rwhitby | ymmv |
| 23:02.43 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 23:02.46 | XorA | rwhitby: I think under UK law as they didnt issue a recall in 28 days, I own gllin and there is nothing can be done :-D |
| 23:02.47 | cw666 | rwhitby: it's not, but that doesnt mean possesion of it is necessarily wrong or criminal |
| 23:03.31 | rwhitby | cw666: note that I didn't say the words "wrong" or "criminal" - I was very careful in the words I used. |
| 23:04.04 | cw666 | rwhitby: in fact, it's not even clear that if someone was to upload it to a public website that would be illegal |
| 23:04.11 | cw666 | certainly they might make a target of themselves though |
| 23:04.14 | rwhitby | that judgement is up to each individual to make for themselves |
| 23:04.25 | SpeedEvil | And perhaps the courts. |
| 23:04.34 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: which courts? |
| 23:04.40 | XorA | no need to stir the ants nest anyway when a real version is on the way |
| 23:04.44 | *** join/#openmoko meshuga_ (i=meshuga@c-98-203-137-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 23:04.46 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: all over the world there are many different legal systems |
| 23:04.47 | XorA | I think thats how most devs see it |
| 23:04.55 | SpeedEvil | cw666: indeed. |
| 23:05.10 | cw666 | XorA: oh, i quite agree... i think thus far people who have it have kept it to themselves for the most part |
| 23:05.34 | cw666 | i dont even see RE efforts getting main traction if the closed driver/whatever doesnt entirely suck |
| 23:05.43 | hhf423 | ah, probably it an issue of my legal system that I get permission denied in my chroot environment when I want to execute cupcake |
| 23:05.45 | rwhitby | XorA: I have a real job and a family to support, and I need to travel to the US often to do so, so I personally always make the personal judgement not to flout things which could potentially cause problems at LA airport when I land :-) |
| 23:06.06 | XorA | rwhitby: ah the threat of the rubber gloves :-D |
| 23:06.28 | rwhitby | after a 13.5 hour flight in economy from australia, you just don't need hassle of any sort. |
| 23:06.53 | hhf423 | rwhitby: or legal guys just recently gave the advice: US customs/immigration is not the place to discuss the constitution |
| 23:07.20 | XorA | hhf423: rwhitby gets no rights from the constitution anyway |
| 23:07.27 | rwhitby | indeed - doesn't the TSA have powers that transcend the constitution? |
| 23:07.30 | hhf423 | rwhitby: if they want your laptop, you give them your laptop. you might even get a reciept |
| 23:07.41 | Writchie | rwhitby: unless you're a terrorist |
| 23:08.22 | hhf423 | XorA: that advice came from US legal and was menat for US and non US personnel |
| 23:08.28 | mwester | Yeah, ain't that the truth. (mwester is a card-carrying member of the frustrated frequent US flier program) |
| 23:08.46 | hhf423 | XorA: in front of TSA noone has any rights |
| 23:08.57 | SpeedEvil | roh: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/neo1973-hardware/2007-August/000201.html - and the one in svn reportedly works |
| 23:09.18 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 23:10.08 | XorA | hhf423: I am well aware of the psycotic institution US people have tied themselves up with |
| 23:10.28 | XorA | hhf423: its one of the reasons I wish to visit US as little as possible. |
| 23:10.47 | XorA | hhf423: I dont fancy a kidnapping to cuba just because someone mistypes my name |
| 23:11.24 | hhf423 | yeah, or you sat next to the wrong person. or you dropped your ipod down the toilet like the guy in CA |
| 23:11.29 | rwhitby | I've never had any problems visiting the US, but then I was always travelling as a Motorola or Freescale employee - big US companies :-) |
| 23:12.23 | mwester | Actually the worst experience I ever had was clearing customs in Toronto, as a US citizen going to visit a Canadian company... |
| 23:12.31 | Writchie | XorA: where in Florida? |
| 23:12.39 | XorA | Orlando |
| 23:12.43 | rwhitby | XorA: do you ever have problems leaving the US - being an encryption algorithm subject to export restrictions? |
| 23:12.53 | Writchie | i'm in Daytona |
| 23:12.56 | hhf423 | hahaha |
| 23:13.11 | XorA | rwhitby: well XorA is one way encryption, its impossible to retreive the results |
| 23:13.14 | Writchie | XorA: conference? |
| 23:13.17 | hhf423 | one should not wear a ROT13 shirt |
| 23:13.27 | rwhitby | XorA: all the more reason why it is restricted ;-) |
| 23:13.29 | XorA | Writchie: familly holiday with wifes familly |
| 23:13.35 | Writchie | ah Mickey |
| 23:13.48 | mwester | hhf423: Yep, good advice -- the TSA employees that actually get it do NOT appreciate that t-shirt. |
| 23:14.25 | mwester | hhf423: And don't tattoo an encryption algorithm on yourself either... |
| 23:14.55 | XorA | Writchie: yeah, disney sucks, I just want to see Terminator 3d and TNA Wrestling |
| 23:15.00 | hhf423 | mwester: aww, so sexy encryption algo tattoo? |
| 23:15.31 | rwhitby | doesn't matter what you wear entering ... |
| 23:16.18 | cw666 | ckuethe: they wont care, just behave and dont be a retard |
| 23:16.20 | ckuethe | or leaving, for that matter - they're all (a) printed matter and (b) open source |
| 23:16.20 | Writchie | ckuethe: where you Transportation Stupidity Administration shirt. |
| 23:16.26 | mwester | On a serious note, this is why I'm very concerned about what get's installed on the neo -- I have to cross borders, and I don't look good in orange jumpsuits. |
| 23:16.28 | ckuethe | i don't have one of those... |
| 23:16.47 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:16.48 | XorA | its wierd, my dads ex girlfriend flew from US to UK with a colt 45 in hand luggage as you werent allowed to stow it. How insane is that |
| 23:16.49 | ckuethe | mwester: just don't set your "wallpaper" to be kiddie pr0n |
| 23:17.02 | ckuethe | leave it on the dialler |
| 23:17.20 | ckuethe | so long as it looks like some wanky new smartphone you should be ok |
| 23:17.21 | Writchie | how insane is more than 3.8 oz of toothpaste |
| 23:17.21 | hhf423 | XorA: when was that? |
| 23:17.43 | ckuethe | no one's ever bothered to snoop through my calls list or texts on my phone |
| 23:17.48 | XorA | hhf423: 6 years ago I think |
| 23:17.50 | hhf423 | and make sure the Neo does not make any ticking noises |
| 23:18.12 | cw666 | mwester: which boarder? |
| 23:18.16 | rwhitby | tell them it's a new iphone |
| 23:18.18 | XorA | current .EU rules for flying are totally insane and only serve to make Duty Free shops more money |
| 23:18.19 | mwester | Writchie: I wonder about that -- specifically, how big a bang does 3.7 oz of explosive make on an airplane, and why is 3.8 bad, but 3.7 is ok?? |
| 23:18.32 | Vegar | what is an oz? |
| 23:18.37 | ckuethe | 28ml |
| 23:18.38 | cw666 | 28 gramms |
| 23:18.44 | Writchie | something the british gave us |
| 23:18.46 | hhf423 | Vegar: someone from australia |
| 23:18.52 | rwhitby | Vegar: a place where wizards live I think |
| 23:19.01 | u_l-lap | Writchie: do not piss off tsa |
| 23:19.05 | rwhitby | hhf423: no, that's an aussie |
| 23:19.06 | mwester | cw666: Canada, mostly. |
| 23:19.10 | cw666 | http://www.designverb.com/wp-content/images/2007/06/Metric_system.jpg |
| 23:19.11 | Vegar | right.. volume or mass? |
| 23:19.21 | cw666 | mwester: US/CA are friendly, i wouldn't worry too much |
| 23:19.51 | ckuethe | there are nice/asshole customs officers everywhere |
| 23:19.56 | ckuethe | best of luck... |
| 23:20.05 | Writchie | u_l-lap: basically, mouting off to any security, custom, etc. guy is just plain stupid. |
| 23:20.19 | rwhitby | cw666: is that a map of all the english colonies that are still stuck in the past? |
| 23:20.31 | cw666 | rwhitby: metric system vs imperial |
| 23:20.32 | hhf423 | http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:UsyhGIsrJY8J:forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html%3FtopicId%3D11211166+canada+ipod+toilet+flight&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=de |
| 23:20.54 | Writchie | when I moved to Canada about 15 years ago the truck driver mouthed off at the border tha I had some computers and my household goods were impounded for weeks |
| 23:21.04 | cw666 | well, you could argue that too |
| 23:21.33 | mwester | cw666: That's why I was surprised to spend three hours in immigration in the Toronto airport, trying to explain why I wished to enter Canada. |
| 23:21.44 | Writchie | mwester: never use the C word |
| 23:21.55 | Writchie | they don't like consultants |
| 23:22.06 | cw666 | mwester: when i had long hair and travel alone a lot if got problems, since then nobody cares |
| 23:22.20 | cw666 | getting old and having you hair fall out somehow helps |
| 23:22.22 | Writchie | the code to get across the Candadian border is be there for "Internal Sales Metting: |
| 23:22.26 | XorA | the best place to enter the US is dublin airport, that rocked |
| 23:22.41 | ckuethe | XorA: edmonton, alberta |
| 23:22.55 | cw666 | LAX tends to suck because it's very bery busy |
| 23:23.20 | Writchie | Seatle from China or Hong Kong is worst |
| 23:23.21 | XorA | dublin rocks, because at least you can drink guiness before you queue up |
| 23:23.23 | u_l-lap | Writchie: wearing the wrong clothes will enrage tsa |
| 23:23.27 | ckuethe | it's never taken me more than 30s to clear us customs in edmonton |
| 23:24.36 | Writchie | in hundreds of border crossing the only hassles or searches I ever had were in US or Canada |
| 23:25.02 | ckuethe | suuurrre.... blame canada. |
| 23:25.03 | bedboi | ckuethe: try living in new mexico |
| 23:25.10 | mwester | ckuethe: Ok! |
| 23:25.18 | ckuethe | bedboi: i visited there a few times |
| 23:25.21 | bedboi | if you go near the border you have a lot of controls |
| 23:25.29 | bedboi | when you head north |
| 23:25.32 | ckuethe | ABQ airport sucks |
| 23:25.44 | bedboi | ckuethe: eheh, i'm based in abq right now. yes it sucks |
| 23:25.56 | rwhitby | u_l-lap: you going to tell us the story? |
| 23:26.02 | bedboi | ckuethe: but not that much, my hometown airport is the one that really sucks |
| 23:27.52 | u_l-lap | rwhitby: beard, anarchist german thrash band tshirt, steel toed boots, persian last name |
| 23:27.53 | Writchie | rwhitby: they still spray the inside of the airplanes before you land in Australia |
| 23:28.11 | u_l-lap | rwhitby: add a one way ticket and you have pissed off tsa people and get yourself on the no fly list |
| 23:28.29 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 23:28.31 | XorA | u_l-lap: ouch you ran out of boxes on the form |
| 23:28.38 | u_l-lap | now I ride amtrak ostly because they don't care |
| 23:28.43 | rwhitby | Writchie: no |
| 23:28.47 | u_l-lap | but I can't leave the country |
| 23:29.02 | polz | how exactly does the output mode switch from speaker to headphones when you plug the headphones into the neo ? |
| 23:29.05 | rwhitby | u_l-lap: ouch! |
| 23:29.24 | polz | does neod do that, or is there some other daemon involved ? |
| 23:29.28 | XorA | u_l-lap: you guys will just have to vote for a sane president this time round |
| 23:30.05 | XorA | luckilly in UK our insane PM seems to have gone and the new one is saner |
| 23:30.15 | rwhitby | oh no, I'm now a known associate of u_l-lap ! |
| 23:30.18 | XorA | although I wont breathe too easy yet |
| 23:30.18 | mwester | XorA: At the risk of straying into politics, the problem is that we've lacked sane candidates for many many years. |
| 23:30.22 | Writchie | bring back margaret |
| 23:30.31 | Lynet | Regarding sanity, seems like SCO just filed for Chapter 11. |
| 23:30.35 | u_l-lap | XorA: very unlikely we haven't a sane president since ... ever |
| 23:30.47 | u_l-lap | XorA: the first ten or so were just a bit less obviously evil |
| 23:30.50 | Writchie | just another abuse of the legal system |
| 23:31.01 | Writchie | Chapter 11 protects them |
| 23:31.10 | XorA | heh heh margaret was in secret meetings with new PM :-D |
| 23:31.12 | bedboi | u_l-lap: are you kidding? |
| 23:31.16 | mwester | There's the theme: the lawyers. |
| 23:31.24 | bedboi | <u_l-lap> but I can't leave the country |
| 23:31.24 | u_l-lap | mwester: because I wear steel toed boots, have a beard, and like german thrash bands? |
| 23:31.40 | mwester | What do you call 200 lawyers at the bottom of Lake Michigan? A: A good start. |
| 23:31.41 | u_l-lap | bedboi: I cannot board airplanes within the US |
| 23:31.46 | u_l-lap | sure I could take a boat |
| 23:31.48 | XorA | mwester: heh heh |
| 23:31.56 | bedboi | u_l-lap: are you kidding (take 2) |
| 23:31.58 | u_l-lap | but effectively I am trapped here |
| 23:32.03 | u_l-lap | bedboi: nope |
| 23:32.07 | bedboi | wtf |
| 23:32.11 | bedboi | what's this? |
| 23:32.13 | polz | u_l-lap: walk into Russia while there's still some ice left :P |
| 23:32.24 | bedboi | i guess it is against any international laws |
| 23:32.25 | XorA | polz: the ice is melted, see news |
| 23:32.30 | polz | or maybe Norway, that seems saner |
| 23:32.38 | u_l-lap | the full story is that I travelled between baltimore and long island a bunch with one way tickets since I didn't know my return time and I was redflagged and then placed onto the no-fly list |
| 23:32.38 | polz | XorA: I think there's still some during the winter |
| 23:32.45 | mwester | Mexico has no guards on their side of the border. |
| 23:32.56 | u_l-lap | it turns out that the plane that flew that route started in raleigh and ended in ... california |
| 23:33.02 | XorA | u_l-lap: thats fscking insane |
| 23:33.12 | bedboi | lol |
| 23:33.15 | u_l-lap | so I took one of them TERRISTS planes |
| 23:33.21 | bedboi | AHAHA |
| 23:33.41 | bedboi | u_l-lap: yep uncle sam has to know when you are leaving and when you are returning |
| 23:33.42 | XorA | anyway its 00:33 here, time for sleep |
| 23:33.57 | bedboi | u_l-lap: why don't they put gps chips in the brain? |
| 23:34.06 | bedboi | it would be easier |
| 23:34.22 | mwester | u_l-lap: now if you WERE a terrorist, I'm sure you could get the ACLU to represent you, win some multi-billion dollar settlement, and live happily every after. |
| 23:34.23 | bedboi | i'm glad to leave this country in less than a month |
| 23:34.32 | polz | bedboi: because that wouldn't give them any feedback. They want GSM so they can prevent thought-crime |
| 23:34.40 | bedboi | LOL |
| 23:34.52 | Writchie | gsm won't work - heats the brain and makes you smarter |
| 23:34.58 | rwhitby | bedboi: the gps driver software wouldn't be an allowed export |
| 23:35.07 | bedboi | damn |
| 23:35.14 | bedboi | btw it is a US gov stuff |
| 23:35.24 | rwhitby | different department |
| 23:35.25 | bedboi | rwhitby: they should open your brain |
| 23:35.28 | bedboi | and check |
| 23:35.35 | u_l-lap | bedboi: the gps chips would be ... the number of the BEAST |
| 23:35.49 | bedboi | ehehe |
| 23:35.50 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.165.121) |
| 23:35.52 | polz | Writchie: hmm.. zigbee, then - the name reminds me of hornets buzzing around inside my scull :P |
| 23:35.53 | u_l-lap | and then the evangelicals would got apeshit and everyone would realize that there are in actuality a total of three of them |
| 23:36.08 | bedboi | mwester: lol |
| 23:36.09 | u_l-lap | followed by bloody revolution or something |
| 23:36.20 | bedboi | in other words, no freedom |
| 23:36.32 | hhf423 | mwester: thats what they want you to believe |
| 23:36.33 | Writchie | rfid: is being banned atm in California I think |
| 23:36.44 | Writchie | human rfid: |
| 23:36.47 | u_l-lap | mwester: sucks because everything is illegal nowadays so don't piss off cop = don't interact with a cop |
| 23:36.56 | Writchie | strange, I never noticed any humans in california myself |
| 23:37.07 | bedboi | LOL |
| 23:37.27 | bedboi | btw, seriously, this country has big problems. |
| 23:37.42 | bedboi | well italy has its problems too, but they are part of the folklore |
| 23:37.52 | bedboi | the fact that nobody wants to work, the mafia, all that stuff |
| 23:38.08 | hhf423 | and that they all drive like crazy |
| 23:38.12 | bedboi | btw we do great pizza |
| 23:38.14 | u_l-lap | bedboi: you're telling me I haven't met someone who could think in years |
| 23:38.16 | bedboi | hhf423: yep. |
| 23:38.36 | polz | bedboi: bah. Even the hungarians make better pizzas :P |
| 23:38.40 | bedboi | NO! |
| 23:38.48 | mwester | best pizza is in Chicago. |
| 23:38.49 | bedboi | pizza is italian, full stop. |
| 23:38.53 | bedboi | shut the fuck up |
| 23:38.54 | Writchie | new york |
| 23:38.59 | bedboi | no please |
| 23:39.05 | roh | aaargh |
| 23:39.13 | polz | bedboi: it might be an italian invention, but in the end, the other people perfected it. |
| 23:39.19 | bedboi | american pizza is not pizza |
| 23:39.21 | Writchie | finish reindeer pizza is better than italian pizza |
| 23:39.22 | bedboi | AAHAHHAHA |
| 23:39.32 | bedboi | this is the worst thing i ever heard |
| 23:39.40 | bedboi | and now you are telling you can cook better pasta |
| 23:39.52 | mwester | The truth is sometimes painful... :p |
| 23:39.53 | bedboi | come on. |
| 23:40.00 | hhf423 | I think the best pizza I ever had was in scottland |
| 23:40.09 | u_l-lap | hey let's all have a friendly emacs vs vi debate |
| 23:40.13 | u_l-lap | it'll probably have a lower casaulty count than best pizza |
| 23:40.20 | Lynet | ed |
| 23:40.23 | bedboi | hhf423: obviously never been in italy |
| 23:40.28 | Writchie | wordstar |
| 23:40.30 | polz | bedboi: I wouldn't know - don't like pasta... but that might have something to do with my mom's cooking :P |
| 23:40.32 | roh | mwester there is no universal truth. |
| 23:40.35 | bedboi | hhf423: otherwise you would have no taste at all |
| 23:40.37 | mwester | u_l-lap: don't forget notepad.exe in your list. |
| 23:40.57 | hhf423 | tedit |
| 23:40.59 | bedboi | and btw emacs sucks. |
| 23:41.04 | mwester | Ooof. |
| 23:41.11 | u_l-lap | mwester: now now only real editors are allowed in this contest |
| 23:41.28 | bedboi | LOL |
| 23:41.29 | polz | u_l-lap: OK, edit.exe, then |
| 23:41.31 | u_l-lap | bedboi: be warned the terminator is coming for you |
| 23:41.36 | polz | or was that .com ? |
| 23:41.38 | bedboi | u_l-lap: the baconator. |
| 23:41.46 | hhf423 | edlin! |
| 23:41.50 | bedboi | the last wendy's invetion, it is dangerous |
| 23:41.54 | mwester | Real programmers just use "cat". |
| 23:42.05 | u_l-lap | noooo my arteries |
| 23:42.08 | hhf423 | mwester: copy con bla.txt |
| 23:42.11 | bedboi | u_l-lap: you are fucked up |
| 23:42.12 | mwester | baconator? uiuuuuggghhhhH! |
| 23:42.32 | bedboi | hey guys i tried that, i said myself: "I have to give a try to this american stuff" |
| 23:42.35 | polz | mwester: but true hackers use a switch and an oscilloscope |
| 23:42.44 | u_l-lap | bedboi: what makes you say that |
| 23:42.50 | bedboi | u_l-lap: insanity |
| 23:42.59 | polz | mwester: and that's the lazy ones - the true l33t get by with three pieces of wire and a LED |
| 23:43.05 | bedboi | u_l-lap: my gf came back to italy the day before the baconator. |
| 23:43.09 | Writchie | best editor is scissors and scotch tape for the paper tape |
| 23:43.22 | bedboi | Writchie: than ocr? |
| 23:43.28 | bedboi | it doesn't work on linux. |
| 23:43.35 | u_l-lap | bedboi: I was scared when I saw the signs for it |
| 23:43.41 | bedboi | yep. |
| 23:43.50 | u_l-lap | bedboi: I had no clue what it was since I don't watch tv ... then someone told me and I had a heart attack just hearing about it |
| 23:43.51 | mwester | Writchie: That doesn't work; can't take scissors on an airplane. |
| 23:44.08 | bedboi | Btw i said myself: I want to be something like the governor of California |
| 23:44.17 | bedboi | (i can't write his name, nobody know how to do that) |
| 23:44.36 | bedboi | mwester: you can take that plastic scissors |
| 23:44.43 | anrp | governator? |
| 23:44.47 | bedboi | yep |
| 23:45.01 | polz | the BlackNiggah ? |
| 23:45.23 | bedboi | AHAHAH |
| 23:45.37 | bedboi | yep Terminator |
| 23:46.00 | bedboi | Baconator has obvious references |
| 23:47.54 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@a81-84-127-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 23:48.40 | hhf423 | oh, is the vte dependency now fixed? |
| 23:48.49 | polz | OK, so does anyone know how the Neo switches to headphones when you plug them in ? |
| 23:49.05 | polz | hhf423: I think so - the bug was closed a few days ago |
| 23:49.15 | hhf423 | cool |
| 23:49.17 | bedboi | polz: does it work? |
| 23:49.31 | bedboi | i did some patch for h5455 |
| 23:49.52 | hhf423 | polz: you mean who tells alsa to load an other state? |
| 23:49.53 | bedboi | it was just that i had to handle an interrupt |
| 23:50.02 | polz | hhf423: yeah. |
| 23:50.03 | roh | polz there comes an event out of an /dev/evdevX (dunno which one right now) which gets then handled by neod which switches to the headphones via alsa |
| 23:50.21 | polz | roh: 10x. |
| 23:50.50 | rwhitby | polz: neod I think |
| 23:50.54 | polz | I was wondering because IMHO it should also switch the input to the microphone on the headset |
| 23:52.27 | polz | oh, and the dialer shouldn't leave the left mixer left and right mixer right muted after finishing a conversation |
| 23:53.18 | polz | but that should be easy to fix now that I can finally build my own programs, wheeee :P |
| 23:53.57 | *** join/#openmoko khaije1 (i=d863b932@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-fec24b3392e87045) |
| 23:55.20 | SpeedEvil | roh: any idea on if the hold button bug on the handset is hardware or software? |
| 23:55.49 | roh | SpeedEvil hold-button bug? |
| 23:56.12 | SpeedEvil | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=695 |
| 23:56.24 | SpeedEvil | the handset button reports no events |
| 23:56.31 | SpeedEvil | headset |
| 23:57.38 | roh | hm.. need to check that.. |
| 23:58.07 | hhf423 | say, are the mailinglists dead? |
| 23:58.12 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:58.48 | SpeedEvil | Or at least to me. |
| 23:59.32 | hhf423 | any bets on who uploaded that nice gps screenshot to scap? |
| 23:59.41 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.79.64) |
