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| 00:27.51 | abraxa_ | frma71: Can I see the asound.conf you created? I'm kinda wondering how to get the audio apps to share resources properly myself |
| 00:29.38 | SpeedEvil | it's more than asound.conf |
| 00:30.01 | SpeedEvil | it will need a special daemon to route the inputs and outputs with the available A/D and D/As |
| 00:30.14 | SpeedEvil | eventually |
| 00:30.49 | Lynet | esd? |
| 00:34.47 | abraxa_ | I thought either esd or dmix would be used but it seems to not be the case |
| 00:35.09 | abraxa_ | As for PulseAudio... I'm not sure that it's the right choice for an embedded device |
| 00:35.46 | Lynet | Which driver model is the current sound drivers using? If ALSA, I think that already includes a mixer; dunno if it is versatile enough though. |
| 00:38.28 | cesarb | Lynet: alsa... and the mixer is dmix, which was mentioned above |
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| 00:44.24 | SpeedEvil | The mixer is a small part of it. |
| 00:44.42 | SpeedEvil | it's not a conventional soundcard, where you have one or two basic channels, and can mix stuff into them |
| 00:45.07 | SpeedEvil | you have several inputs and outputs, and A/D and D/As, and can route audio flexibly between devices. |
| 00:45.40 | SpeedEvil | For example, in principle, you can have GSM audio going direct from microphone-GSM module, and GSM-module to earpiece, with the CPU off. |
| 00:45.53 | abraxa_ | If ALSA is already using dmix then why do we get "resource busy" errors? |
| 00:46.33 | SpeedEvil | Or you can have it going from GSM module-A/D - software voice processing - D/A - earpiece, and the same for the microphone |
| 00:46.40 | SpeedEvil | Horribly complex. |
| 00:47.02 | SpeedEvil | and at the same time you might be streaming music to a sound system. |
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| 00:51.13 | notserpe | clear |
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| 01:09.01 | mickeyl | abraxa_: because we are not yet using dmix |
| 01:09.11 | mickeyl | which i'm fixing as we speak |
| 01:09.13 | mickeyl | :D |
| 01:09.17 | abraxa_ | Oh, wonderful =) |
| 01:09.21 | abraxa_ | Thank you |
| 01:10.12 | mickeyl | i just hope we can use it at all |
| 01:10.24 | mickeyl | since every mixing stage introduces more cpuload and latency |
| 01:10.33 | mickeyl | and we are already at max. w/ gta01 |
| 01:11.14 | abraxa_ | Yeah - which reminds me... didn't you say that PulseAudio was buggy and responsible for causing such a high load when using gstreamer? |
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| 01:13.55 | mickeyl | no |
| 01:14.02 | mickeyl | at least i didn't put it that way |
| 01:14.10 | mickeyl | the high gstreamer load depends on |
| 01:14.15 | mickeyl | a) the proper pipeline |
| 01:14.21 | mickeyl | (or rather improper) |
| 01:14.22 | mickeyl | and |
| 01:14.37 | mickeyl | b) remixing |
| 01:14.55 | mickeyl | gstreamer->pulseaudio->alsa doesn't cut it on gta01 |
| 01:15.01 | mickeyl | so the alternatives are |
| 01:15.14 | mickeyl | a) not mixing, i.e. autoreleasing audio when idle |
| 01:15.15 | mickeyl | or |
| 01:15.38 | mickeyl | b) finding a route through the mixer that doesn't convert too many times |
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| 01:17.19 | abraxa_ | Ah, okay. I was wondering because I'm now forcing the playbin to use alsasink but it's still showing the same poor performance. Looks like I'll have to manually construct a more optimized pipeline than playbin does after all |
| 01:17.26 | mickeyl | yah |
| 01:17.34 | mickeyl | just use: |
| 01:17.39 | mickeyl | filesrc ! mad ! alsasink |
| 01:17.42 | mickeyl | for mp3 |
| 01:18.01 | mickeyl | this has accetable load when going directly to alsa |
| 01:18.05 | mickeyl | ~25% cpu |
| 01:18.22 | mickeyl | when going through pulseaudio to alsa, it stutters horribly |
| 01:18.32 | mickeyl | so i'm checking whether dmix is better |
| 01:18.36 | mickeyl | (which i doubt, honestly) |
| 01:19.34 | abraxa_ | Should I prepare several pipelines for different stream types (mp3/ogg/wav/etc.) or should I construct/destroy them with every file load? Not sure which is better so maybe you have some experience with that |
| 01:19.54 | mickeyl | constructing a pipeline is reasonably lightweight |
| 01:20.00 | mickeyl | so better do it on-demand |
| 01:20.07 | abraxa_ | okay, will do that then :) |
| 01:20.07 | mickeyl | s/lightweight/fast/ |
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| 01:36.38 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 01:36.46 | mickeyl | root@fic-gta01:/etc$ gst-launch filesrc location=/tmp/foo.mp3 ! mad ! alsasink device=dmix |
| 01:36.53 | mickeyl | ERROR: from element /pipeline0/filesrc0: Internal data flow error. |
| 01:36.56 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
| 01:44.30 | abraxa_ | Ouch |
| 01:45.30 | mickeyl | i can't get gstreamer to use alsa in dmix mode |
| 01:45.33 | mickeyl | odd |
| 01:49.59 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: Can other apps use dmix then? |
| 01:50.57 | mickeyl | aplay seems to can |
| 01:51.09 | mickeyl | i can run aplay -D dmix multiple times |
| 01:51.20 | mickeyl | so it doesn't look like a problem with dmix per se |
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| 01:53.38 | *** join/#openmoko DrHalan (n=DrHalan@bas4-montreal45-1242356169.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:53.43 | DrHalan | hey :D |
| 01:55.39 | DrHalan | i really like the openMoko idea but i just wonder if neo is the right hardware i would liek for my next mobile phone |
| 01:58.01 | abraxa_ | DrHalan: Hellos! What do you want to know? |
| 01:58.56 | DrHalan | if i easily can use openMoko on a diffrent mobile device :P |
| 01:58.57 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: frma71 seems to have a working asound.conf so it seems possible - maybe compare with his? |
| 01:59.24 | mickeyl | abraxa_: sure. i'd be surprised if it was a configuration problem, but who knows. where can i get that? |
| 01:59.39 | abraxa_ | DrHalan: See http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/angstrom-running-on-an-motorola-a780 for example |
| 02:00.01 | abraxa_ | mickeyl: I've been waiting for a response from him myself, unfortunately |
| 02:02.35 | DrHalan | ah so its also usable on non-touchscreen-devices? |
| 02:02.36 | aloril | DrHalan: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:04.58 | abraxa_ | DrHalan: I can't give a definite "yes" or "no" on that one but as it's open source I'm sure that someone will make it so - if not the core team itself, once the base distribution is ready for mass market |
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| 02:13.52 | mickeyl | ok, we can forget dmix |
| 02:14.15 | mickeyl | we need to pipe the mad data through audioresample ! audioreconvert to make that work |
| 02:14.19 | mickeyl | since mad outputs 32bit int |
| 02:14.27 | mickeyl | and dmix wants float |
| 02:15.14 | abraxa_ | Just curious... how did you figure that one out? |
| 02:15.33 | mickeyl | friendly guys on #gstreamer |
| 02:16.00 | mickeyl | so gta01 is doomed to exclusive alsa access |
| 02:16.30 | mickeyl | all i can do is decrease the pulseaudio unloading timeout |
| 02:17.01 | mickeyl | well |
| 02:17.12 | mickeyl | we could ask pulseaudio to explicitly unload its driver |
| 02:17.16 | mickeyl | from the media player |
| 02:17.22 | mickeyl | but that's nasty :/ |
| 02:18.45 | abraxa_ | Hmm... my main concern is: how to make the dialer wait with ringtone playback? The media player would have to pause first - sounds to me like we'd need several d-bus events for that scenario alone |
| 02:19.25 | mickeyl | nasty nasty |
| 02:19.31 | abraxa_ | Indeed... |
| 02:19.54 | mickeyl | now if we could hack the mad plugin to output 16bit |
| 02:20.01 | mickeyl | then we could feed that into the pulseaudio sink |
| 02:20.08 | mickeyl | which accepts 16bit int |
| 02:20.18 | mickeyl | just not 32bit. |
| 02:20.46 | abraxa_ | Why PulseAudio? |
| 02:21.32 | mickeyl | because pulseaudio does a lot what we want |
| 02:21.34 | mickeyl | it mixes |
| 02:21.37 | mickeyl | it contains a sample storage |
| 02:21.46 | mickeyl | and some interesting plugins |
| 02:21.56 | mickeyl | e.g. to feed the x11 bell into audio |
| 02:22.00 | mickeyl | and lot more |
| 02:22.05 | mickeyl | plus it's lightweight |
| 02:22.13 | mickeyl | and the mixing code is faster than dmix'es |
| 02:22.37 | abraxa_ | Oh okay, I didn't realize it did mixing as well :) |
| 02:22.43 | mickeyl | gstreamer ! mad ! audioconvert ! pulseaudio _nearly_ works |
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| 02:23.12 | mickeyl | it's just stuttering, so if we could get mad to output 16bit, everything should work even on gta01 |
| 02:23.19 | abraxa_ | Okay |
| 02:23.36 | abraxa_ | I'll see if I can get it done myself - if not I'll let you know; is that okay with you? |
| 02:23.52 | mickeyl | sounds pretty good. |
| 02:24.10 | mickeyl | that will involve some nice gstreamer hacking which i absolutely don't have time for :) |
| 02:25.02 | mickeyl | ah, well, one thing |
| 02:25.21 | mickeyl | it might be easier to hack gst-plugin-pulse to input 32 bit than to hack gst-plugin-mad to output 16 bit |
| 02:25.25 | mickeyl | *shrug* |
| 02:26.12 | abraxa_ | Okay, I'll decide on that after looking at the code |
| 02:27.05 | mickeyl | cool |
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| 02:38.53 | mickeyl | hmm. 04:40 |
| 02:38.56 | mickeyl | time to sleep |
| 02:38.57 | mickeyl | g'night folks |
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| 02:42.25 | abraxa_ | Night mickey |
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| 02:54.35 | hozer | so how are phone calls doing with recent builds? |
| 02:55.48 | mwester-road | As long as you don't do anything weird (like try to use the "today" application) it works nicely. :D |
| 02:56.16 | mwester-road | The first trick is to get a recent build, though. |
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| 02:59.43 | sagacis | I've made/received a few calls with recent builds (last three days) |
| 03:00.02 | hozer | hrrm |
| 03:00.12 | sagacis | I'm not happy with the current gsmhandset.state, tho. For some reason, the mic is piped REALLY LOUD into the handset speaker. |
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| 03:00.42 | sagacis | Make sure you read the stuff on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing that other people have encountered. |
| 03:03.48 | sagacis | Does the neo send DTMF tones yet? |
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| 04:40.29 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 04:52.06 | raster | moo |
| 04:52.26 | CM | baaaah ;) |
| 04:53.46 | raster | burrp |
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| 06:21.55 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 06:24.53 | zash_se | mornin' |
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| 06:44.17 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03abraxa * r2959 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/src/ (13 files): |
| 06:44.17 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Now informs user when appending a single file to the playlist, too |
| 06:44.17 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Auto-creates playlist directory now |
| 06:44.17 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Minor clean-ups/clarifications |
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| 06:57.23 | hhf423 | re |
| 07:01.49 | CM | abraxa_: Is the media player included in the default rootfs now? |
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| 07:04.58 | abraxa_ | CM: Don't think so - I'll just keep working on it and let Mickey decide on when to include it |
| 07:05.10 | CM | Ok |
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| 07:10.45 | RalphEichelberge | jo |
| 07:10.49 | RalphEichelberge | here again |
| 07:11.17 | RalphEichelberge | still trying to build that development thing |
| 07:11.29 | CM | You're note having any luck are you? |
| 07:11.40 | CM | NOTE: build 200709130907: completed |
| 07:11.58 | RalphEichelberge | last thing I did: bitbake vte |
| 07:12.27 | CM | Have you updated since? make update ; make setup ? |
| 07:12.35 | RalphEichelberge | i got at task some 800 the configure of vte_0.16.8.bb |
| 07:12.43 | RalphEichelberge | it cant find my ncurses |
| 07:12.55 | RalphEichelberge | it is installed |
| 07:13.16 | tuukkah | ncurses of host or target? |
| 07:13.27 | RalphEichelberge | host |
| 07:13.29 | CM | try bitbake ncurses too |
| 07:13.31 | RalphEichelberge | for building |
| 07:13.39 | RalphEichelberge | there is? |
| 07:13.41 | RalphEichelberge | ok |
| 07:14.15 | tuukkah | CM, can there also be something like ncurses-native for the host? |
| 07:14.27 | RalphEichelberge | native? |
| 07:14.42 | RalphEichelberge | as a package? |
| 07:15.02 | tuukkah | yes, i think openembedded sometimes calls the host packages "native" |
| 07:15.18 | RalphEichelberge | wenn it is doing something with ncurses-native |
| 07:15.31 | tuukkah | "wenn"?-) |
| 07:15.39 | RalphEichelberge | well* |
| 07:15.58 | tuukkah | ok perhaps i guessed right %-) |
| 07:16.02 | RalphEichelberge | i sometimes use 'n' as a 'L' |
| 07:16.08 | RalphEichelberge | strange :) |
| 07:16.10 | *** join/#openmoko neocoretech (n=neocoret@gw.transporeon-hq.com) |
| 07:18.00 | CM | tuukkah: Yes, I had a lot of trouble with db3-native when I first tried to build the images |
| 07:18.13 | tuukkah | actually all the packages in tmp/work/i686-linux are called something-native |
| 07:18.27 | CM | For cross building something or? |
| 07:18.42 | ScaredyCat | cross dressing |
| 07:18.55 | CM | I really haven't understood bitbake, and I guess it's not as "sandboxed" as one could wish |
| 07:19.21 | RalphEichelberge | i lately got that old feeling of trying to compile a new piece of software from the internet, only to find that after having installed all the libraries that it needed, it finaly want a library that conflicts with the running system .. bummer (that was in the old days of linux...) |
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| 07:19.28 | tuukkah | CM, yeah it seems to be not like scratchbox |
| 07:20.52 | tuukkah | it could be nice to have something like a tour of the oe directories |
| 07:21.14 | CM | tuukkah: Heh, sure would |
| 07:21.19 | RalphEichelberge | well that tour could last forever |
| 07:21.33 | tuukkah | tmp/cross/ seems to have the cross compiler proper |
| 07:21.34 | CM | RalphEichelberge: Too many circular dependencies? ;) |
| 07:21.51 | CM | Wow, this would be nice to have in a laptop: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4331778531.html |
| 07:22.06 | RalphEichelberge | mhm " ln -s . something" :) |
| 07:22.35 | tuukkah | tmp/rootfs is ... the rootfs :-) |
| 07:23.38 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek (n=ds@fw2.autoguard.pl) |
| 07:23.43 | zdanek | hi all |
| 07:23.53 | RalphEichelberge | hi zdanek |
| 07:23.57 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@host81-156-166-216.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:24.27 | zdanek | I have a question, does somebody have a repo address where I get "Midori" from? |
| 07:25.06 | zdanek | I've been looking at scaredycat but it's only in filesystem build |
| 07:25.20 | CM | heh, was just about to say that |
| 07:25.29 | ScaredyCat | bitbake it |
| 07:25.32 | zdanek | I don't want to flash all, I want to ipgk install it :) |
| 07:25.32 | CM | Have you checked rwhitby's feed? |
| 07:25.42 | ScaredyCat | it's not in ipk form? |
| 07:25.44 | zdanek | nope - don't know the address |
| 07:25.55 | zdanek | hi ScaredyCat |
| 07:26.05 | zdanek | regards for repo |
| 07:26.33 | ScaredyCat | it's in my repo |
| 07:26.40 | ScaredyCat | there |
| 07:26.44 | ScaredyCat | right there... |
| 07:26.46 | zdanek | :) |
| 07:26.58 | zdanek | ipkg search '*midori*' shows nothing |
| 07:27.09 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-91-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 07:27.17 | ScaredyCat | did you a) add my .conf b) ipkg update |
| 07:27.26 | zdanek | yep |
| 07:27.30 | zdanek | and updated |
| 07:27.34 | tuukkah | ScaredyCat, did you update the package index ?-) |
| 07:27.35 | ScaredyCat | uno momento |
| 07:27.44 | zdanek | according to wiki |
| 07:27.49 | ScaredyCat | I always update the package index... prior to upload |
| 07:29.44 | CM | zdanek: Lots of files here http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/unstable/armv4t/ |
| 07:29.45 | zdanek | doing upgrade it overwrites changes to /etc/init.d/gsmd script |
| 07:29.56 | zdanek | and it hangs again |
| 07:30.16 | zdanek | CM: thx |
| 07:31.03 | zdanek | and what's the difference between ../armv4t and ../fic-gta01 ? |
| 07:31.46 | CM | I think fic-gta01 is the model specific things |
| 07:32.06 | CM | Not general arm packages, but special for the openmoko dist |
| 07:33.20 | tuukkah | openmoko-* packages are in armv4t though, probably because they run on other hardware too |
| 07:34.06 | CM | Sounds likely |
| 07:34.11 | tuukkah | also, gsmd is armv4t but neod is fic-gta01 |
| 07:34.20 | tuukkah | it all makes sense :-) |
| 07:35.04 | zdanek | yep :D |
| 07:38.17 | zdanek | ScaredyCat: what about your's repo and midori? |
| 07:39.54 | ScaredyCat | hang on a tick... |
| 07:40.09 | ScaredyCat | just in the middle of an update to the repo |
| 07:40.32 | ScaredyCat | when it's done try an ipgk update then ipkg install midori |
| 07:40.40 | ScaredyCat | I'll let you know when it's done |
| 07:41.13 | ScaredyCat | it's done |
| 07:48.50 | zdanek | scaredycat: thx! |
| 07:49.09 | ScaredyCat | np |
| 07:50.18 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 07:52.38 | zdanek | got Midori |
| 07:52.42 | zdanek | awesome :D |
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| 08:02.34 | RalphEichelberge | still building ncurses -!!!! |
| 08:02.53 | RalphEichelberge | i cant believe this |
| 08:03.19 | RalphEichelberge | i hope its doing more than just that |
| 08:07.28 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, well obviously the build dependencies need to be built first |
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| 08:11.11 | notserpe | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:18.47 | Any_Key | Hello all |
| 08:19.43 | Any_Key | is anybody here working i18n issues for OM? |
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| 08:22.42 | Any_Key | translations for example? |
| 08:23.07 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 08:30.41 | *** join/#openmoko rEdcArp_yu (n=yyu@211.103.237.2) |
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| 08:34.18 | abraxa_ | Oh I have plenty i18n issues, thank you :) |
| 08:34.41 | tuukkah | abraxa_, are you working on them, or reporting them? |
| 08:34.49 | abraxa_ | Working |
| 08:35.45 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 08:36.55 | Any_Key | abraxa_, good, I just made today ru & he translation for feed reader, but for some apps in OM2007.2 cann't find some .pot or at least .op files |
| 08:37.25 | abraxa_ | Neato |
| 08:38.25 | Any_Key | abraxa_, pity, it's takes smfn like 5-10 min to do it, but nothing to translate yet |
| 08:39.28 | Any_Key | s/.op/.po/g |
| 08:44.24 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 08:49.20 | tuukkah | Any_Key, . in the first part of s doesn't work like you think it does ;-) |
| 08:49.59 | tuukkah | s/.o/*o/ |
| 08:50.25 | tuukkah | where is apt when we need a demonstration? |
| 08:50.59 | tuukkah | s/o/p/ |
| 08:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@37-111.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr) |
| 08:51.53 | tuukkah | or is apt .broken |
| 08:52.03 | tuukkah | s/./somewhat / |
| 08:52.03 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@213.144.15.9) |
| 08:52.16 | tuukkah | it is =-/ |
| 08:52.20 | CM | No, but he only does s// on your own text |
| 08:52.27 | CM | apt: don't you? |
| 08:52.48 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 08:52.49 | tuukkah | CM, see, it doesn't interpret the first part of s as a regex |
| 08:53.18 | CM | That's true, should be easy to fix |
| 08:53.35 | CM | But not for me |
| 08:53.48 | CM | ~lart apt's regexp skillz |
| 08:53.48 | apt | stamps apt's regexp skillz on the forehead with the official Troll marker |
| 08:53.57 | tuukkah | LaF0rge, how high-level issues should we enter in the bugzilla vs. somewhere else? |
| 08:54.18 | CM | tuukkah: Example of high level issue? |
| 08:54.28 | tuukkah | "The phone should take the necessary actions for the battery to never run too empty." |
| 08:54.54 | CM | That's definitely an issue.. It really dies suddenly |
| 08:55.13 | tuukkah | this is more like a requirements item than a bug in some specific part of the system |
| 08:57.32 | tuukkah | CM, i wanted to spec that we always need to be able to shut off the subsystems and negotiate the fast charge. preferably also show some indication for the user |
| 08:57.44 | CM | *nod* |
| 08:59.35 | *** join/#openmoko robster (n=robster@light.bluelinux.co.uk) |
| 09:00.00 | tuukkah | in case we're trying to boot the system, this means checking we have enough power to start with. and if we're not currently charging, we need some additional charge to bring up the system first |
| 09:00.40 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 09:01.06 | SpeedEvil | I've got a patch that's aimed at that. Accurately predicting battery life. |
| 09:01.20 | SpeedEvil | keeping track of battery capacity much more accurately. |
| 09:01.51 | SpeedEvil | and very accurately predicting life, taking account of the draw of various subsystems and stuff |
| 09:01.59 | SpeedEvil | battery aging, ... |
| 09:02.17 | SpeedEvil | However, I need to get a build environment up to get it tested properly. |
| 09:03.02 | SpeedEvil | As a first cut, simply a daemon that cuts off the power at 3.5V or so would be reasonable. |
| 09:03.09 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03abraxa * r2960 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/src/playlist.c: |
| 09:03.09 | CIA-23 | openmoko: No more crashing when creating a playlist after deleting one |
| 09:03.09 | CIA-23 | openmoko: "Preliminary title"-flag gets auto-set now, allowing proper metadata handling on tracks whose metadata wasn't set in the playlist yet when the playlist got |
| 09:03.09 | CIA-23 | openmoko: saved |
| 09:03.26 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, sounds like something for neod |
| 09:03.55 | SpeedEvil | probably. |
| 09:04.05 | SpeedEvil | I'm doing the kernel-side bits first |
| 09:04.32 | tuukkah | hmm, what will we be able to do in case we are in the sleep mode? |
| 09:04.35 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 09:05.28 | tuukkah | do we periodically wake up and check if it's time to shut down completely? |
| 09:08.11 | emdete | is it already possible to slow down the cpu like with cpufreqd? |
| 09:08.25 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 09:08.39 | tuukkah | emdete, at least in uboot |
| 09:10.26 | emdete | :D so linux will run at a lower speed all the time? saving battery power? |
| 09:12.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2961 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-contacts.c): |
| 09:12.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_lookup): Protect against empty number |
| 09:12.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: value. Should fix bug 819. |
| 09:13.00 | tuukkah | anyone able to check /proc/cpuinfo? my phone has too low battery to boot again, even though it was on fast charge |
| 09:14.06 | zdanek | tuukkah: what to check? |
| 09:14.22 | tuukkah | does it tell the frequency? |
| 09:15.15 | zdanek | bogoMips |
| 09:15.25 | zdanek | somehow connected to freq |
| 09:15.31 | zdanek | Processor : ARM920T rev 0 (v4l) |
| 09:15.31 | zdanek | BogoMIPS : 132.71 |
| 09:15.37 | tuukkah | the Bootloader page says "You can re-configure the S3C2410 PLL to generate a 266 MHz core cpu clock (rather than the 200MHz default)" |
| 09:15.38 | zdanek | half of clock |
| 09:16.16 | tuukkah | so that would mean we do run at 266 MHz by default |
| 09:16.43 | zdanek | yes |
| 09:16.49 | zdanek | and it was said that some version (GTA01v4?) should work only on 266 |
| 09:17.07 | zdanek | I think it was at wiki's uboot/bootloader page |
| 09:17.13 | tuukkah | zdanek, want to test what happens if you set the speed to 50 MHz in uboot? |
| 09:17.30 | tuukkah | the page has " WARNING: The old hardware (Phase 0 - GTA01Bv3) only runs stable at 266MHz if you do not attach anything (esp. the FPC / Debug Board to the Debug Port" |
| 09:17.37 | zdanek | yes |
| 09:17.42 | zdanek | that what I ment |
| 09:18.07 | emdete | hm, why doesn't /proc/cpuinfo conatain a 'cpu MHz'? |
| 09:18.09 | zdanek | I could as my wizards of electronics |
| 09:18.11 | tuukkah | zdanek, i thought that means it doesn't run stable at 266 MHz |
| 09:18.28 | borg_ | !ombug 819 |
| 09:18.29 | zdanek | I does |
| 09:18.35 | zdanek | it does |
| 09:19.26 | tuukkah | "does mean" or "does run stable"? the ambiguity of the language |
| 09:22.40 | emdete | how can i switch cpufreq with uboot? |
| 09:22.47 | zdanek | tuukkah: I asked my colleagues and they said that if you lower the clock it shouldn't be hazardous for hardware |
| 09:23.23 | zdanek | it only affects everything which usues "time |
| 09:23.25 | tuukkah | emdete, s3c2410 speed list |
| 09:23.35 | tuukkah | emdete, s3c2410 speed set 50 |
| 09:23.37 | zdanek | " based on clock tics |
| 09:23.52 | zdanek | everything should be slower |
| 09:24.09 | emdete | oups |
| 09:24.13 | zdanek | I don't know how it affects serial trasmissions |
| 09:24.20 | zdanek | if they're based on clock |
| 09:24.32 | emdete | no, the serial port is gone also... ;) |
| 09:24.37 | tuukkah | zdanek, ok, we might need to do some testing indeed |
| 09:25.04 | emdete | wow, slower... isn't the right word for that :D |
| 09:25.23 | zdanek | I'd like to ask you what do you need it for? |
| 09:25.40 | tuukkah | zdanek, to save the battery |
| 09:25.47 | zdanek | :D |
| 09:25.51 | SpeedEvil | In principle, we want to slow the clock. |
| 09:25.52 | zdanek | ofcourse |
| 09:25.56 | SpeedEvil | See the power managment page |
| 09:26.11 | SpeedEvil | there are some 7 possible power saving techniques. |
| 09:26.16 | zdanek | no more explaination is required |
| 09:26.26 | SpeedEvil | most of which we need to support |
| 09:26.59 | zdanek | I my company we create gsm+gps devices and we shut down gsm modem when it's not needed |
| 09:27.39 | zdanek | meant: In my company... |
| 09:28.16 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management |
| 09:28.23 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, what do you think of the state of bug #770? |
| 09:28.42 | SpeedEvil | I think it is something I have no knowledge of |
| 09:28.49 | SpeedEvil | !ombug 770 |
| 09:28.54 | SpeedEvil | !om bug 770 |
| 09:29.11 | tuukkah | it would seem to me that someone should just add echo "AT@POFF" >/dev/ttySAC0 to gsmd stop and test that it works |
| 09:29.51 | SpeedEvil | it does |
| 09:29.56 | SpeedEvil | or rather |
| 09:30.05 | SpeedEvil | I've not put it in there |
| 09:30.09 | SpeedEvil | just used echo |
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| 09:30.46 | SpeedEvil | and the amp_mode to 'off' |
| 09:30.50 | SpeedEvil | and it uses under 100uA |
| 09:31.03 | SpeedEvil | for a battery life of around a year |
| 09:31.06 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, the amp mode part i would put to alsa-state stop instead |
| 09:31.45 | tuukkah | so it doesn't get saved to the state that is restored after reboot |
| 09:31.49 | XorA | tuukkah: Amp Mode to off should be added in suspend function in neo1973_wm8753.c |
| 09:32.24 | tuukkah | XorA, oh ok, makes more sense. do we have a bug# ? |
| 09:33.10 | XorA | tuukkah: no, Im due to do some work on sound suspend soon |
| 09:34.48 | tuukkah | XorA, but soon probably isn't today so it might make sense for me to file the bug and put in what you said here? |
| 09:35.51 | XorA | tuukkah: go for it |
| 09:35.57 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek (n=ds@fw2.autoguard.pl) |
| 09:36.06 | XorA | tuukkah: you can even assign it to me :-) |
| 09:37.24 | tuukkah | what do i put in there to assign to you? |
| 09:38.28 | CM | !oebug 2928 |
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| 09:42.13 | tuukkah | XorA, does that change take care of powering off too or only suspending? |
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| 09:42.55 | XorA | tuukkah: probably needs a mode change in the module remove stuff as well, but to be safe, shutdown scripts should load a mixer file to turn it off |
| 09:43.48 | tuukkah | what about, what do you think of shutting the amp off in kernel when no sound is playing? |
| 09:43.59 | SpeedEvil | Not an eventual solution |
| 09:44.17 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, what do you mean? |
| 09:44.31 | SpeedEvil | the amp can be playing sound with the CPU off |
| 09:44.56 | tuukkah | in what kind of situations? |
| 09:44.58 | SpeedEvil | from the GSM modem, for example. |
| 09:45.03 | XorA | tuukkah: thats ok, but GSM also uses the amp, and thats more difficult |
| 09:45.31 | SpeedEvil | Ideally, we should even be doing that on calls. |
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| 09:45.41 | XorA | ultimately neod (or whatever the audio manager is) should load a state for off when nothing is using audio out |
| 09:45.45 | SpeedEvil | turn off the CPU and screen when talking |
| 09:46.05 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, that sounds a bit extreme |
| 09:46.12 | SpeedEvil | it should be an option |
| 09:47.01 | XorA | even bluetooth should be possible with CPU off |
| 09:47.18 | CM | Heh, this was a nice new unit of measurement: mickey = ratio of computer mouse movement to onscreen cursor movement |
| 09:47.20 | tuukkah | that would mean we can't do it in the kernel driver |
| 09:47.27 | SpeedEvil | it's up to a third more talk-time |
| 09:47.34 | SpeedEvil | (CPU off) |
| 09:48.03 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil,"CPU off" here means suspend, right? |
| 09:48.41 | SpeedEvil | no, actually off, with only RAM alive |
| 09:48.52 | SpeedEvil | it needs some work to get it to do that rapidly though |
| 09:49.02 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, isn't that what suspend means? |
| 09:49.21 | SpeedEvil | Well - the suspend mode uses - at the moment - a fair amount of power |
| 09:49.26 | zdanek | think about possibily to records voice call |
| 09:49.31 | SpeedEvil | so it's not properly doing that. |
| 09:49.33 | zdanek | we need CPU for that |
| 09:49.40 | SpeedEvil | however, not all the time |
| 09:49.51 | SpeedEvil | It again should be an option |
| 09:50.11 | SpeedEvil | for those that don't want to record calls |
| 09:50.15 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, yeah but that's what the suspend mode does wrt the cpu |
| 09:50.27 | zdanek | I would rather slooow down CPU clock just to react on inputs |
| 09:50.34 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately. |
| 09:50.42 | SpeedEvil | slow clock may not save that much power. |
| 09:50.43 | zdanek | and if user taps screen it could start off |
| 09:50.50 | SpeedEvil | in principle, we can wake from suspend really fast |
| 09:50.55 | SpeedEvil | on screen touches |
| 09:51.01 | SpeedEvil | sub-second |
| 09:51.15 | SpeedEvil | this will take work though. |
| 09:53.02 | tuukkah | do we have scripts that run on suspend and resume? |
| 09:53.09 | zdanek | I would add small phototransistor right near the speaker so we could know when user is listening to voice (so not wathing the screen) |
| 09:53.21 | zdanek | and then shut down all userinput and screen |
| 09:53.44 | zdanek | I mean during gsm call |
| 09:54.04 | SpeedEvil | a button probably works |
| 09:54.12 | SpeedEvil | 'screen off' |
| 09:56.17 | tuukkah | currently neod "Full PM" means the screen goes off automatically and we enter suspend state automatically too |
| 09:56.37 | tuukkah | afaict this happens during calls too |
| 09:56.49 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@vpn-friends.ms.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 09:57.09 | wibbit | Hmmm, where does the name Neo1973 come from? |
| 09:57.27 | XorA | Keanu Reeves making the first phone call in 1973 |
| 09:57.32 | XorA | +gsm |
| 09:57.42 | tuukkah | or +cell? |
| 09:58.02 | XorA | -gsm+cell |
| 09:59.00 | tuukkah | XorA, after this discussion, do you agree we should do the amp off in user space rather than kernel? |
| 09:59.25 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@86.157.93.91) |
| 09:59.31 | XorA | tuukkah: well when audio driver is suspended I think Amp should go to off |
| 09:59.46 | XorA | tuukkah: but thats a different state than halting the CPU during a phonecall |
| 10:00.27 | tuukkah | how do these modes look different in the kernel? |
| 10:01.09 | XorA | tuukkah: AFAIK kernel is either suspended or not suspended in its entirety |
| 10:01.13 | Placid | hi all |
| 10:01.35 | tuukkah | XorA, so CPU halt and suspend are the same thing? |
| 10:01.36 | XorA | tuukkah: but the kernel can choose to halt CPU until IRQ occurs (this is called suspend sometimes in hardware land) but this is different |
| 10:01.48 | tuukkah | oh ok |
| 10:01.51 | XorA | tuukkah: too many uses for the same term |
| 10:02.13 | tuukkah | XorA, so what's that called in kernel? "CPU halt"? |
| 10:02.30 | XorA | tuukkah: Its what the idle loop does |
| 10:02.51 | tuukkah | XorA, but how would we get to the idle loop during a call? |
| 10:03.28 | XorA | tuukkah: because during call there will be nothing happening, we can turn off screen, CPU can sleep |
| 10:03.49 | XorA | tuukkah: its not special behaviour in any way, in fact even desktop PC's already do it |
| 10:03.56 | tuukkah | XorA, but there are processes that keep executing |
| 10:04.12 | XorA | tuukkah: only if they are doing work, most processes wait on IO |
| 10:04.39 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 10:05.04 | tuukkah | there are processes like clocks and gsmd that keep getting io |
| 10:05.53 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:05.54 | XorA | tuukkah: but between IO they can sleep |
| 10:05.56 | SpeedEvil | 'idle' mode on the CPU is unfortunately high power. |
| 10:06.13 | SpeedEvil | You really want it off, if you can. |
| 10:06.25 | SpeedEvil | slow is a good alternative if you can't. |
| 10:07.02 | XorA | SpeedEvil: I dont thinkt he CPU will ever truly be able to suspend while in action |
| 10:07.21 | tuukkah | "suspend while in action"? |
| 10:07.25 | SpeedEvil | If you don't want the screen, it's plausible. |
| 10:07.36 | SpeedEvil | for some things at least. |
| 10:07.55 | SpeedEvil | it will require a u-boot with a fast resume path |
| 10:08.26 | tuukkah | ah that's cool. we can put part of power management in uboot |
| 10:09.09 | tuukkah | (i'm specifically thinking of the "wake up periodically to check the battery isn't running too low) |
| 10:09.42 | SpeedEvil | that sort of thing |
| 10:09.47 | XorA | need a periodic alarm to check the battery every minute or so, so you need to weight the power costs of waking the CPU which are higher than the runnig costs against just idling the CPU in slow mode |
| 10:10.01 | SpeedEvil | nowhere near every minute |
| 10:10.16 | SpeedEvil | unless we know we are critically low on battery |
| 10:10.19 | SpeedEvil | and on a call |
| 10:10.42 | XorA | SpeedEvil: old batteries go from fine to critical in a matter of seconds |
| 10:11.01 | SpeedEvil | Not really. |
| 10:11.10 | XorA | with technology on Neo they do |
| 10:11.15 | SpeedEvil | That's an artifact of insufficient understanding |
| 10:11.30 | XorA | there isnt the fine grained reading of energy needed |
| 10:11.39 | SpeedEvil | you can measure the battery impedence quite closely, which gives you an idea of the state of the battery |
| 10:11.47 | SpeedEvil | age of the battery |
| 10:11.53 | SpeedEvil | and you've got a good idea of power use |
| 10:12.17 | XorA | does the PMIC in Neo do that measurement? |
| 10:12.19 | SpeedEvil | fine-grained energy meters are nice. |
| 10:12.24 | SpeedEvil | No, it doesn't |
| 10:12.27 | SpeedEvil | alas. |
| 10:12.35 | XorA | so stop dreaming and work with what we got :_) |
| 10:12.44 | SpeedEvil | you don't need that though |
| 10:13.06 | SpeedEvil | if you're not on a call, the current in use is quite tightly bound. |
| 10:13.17 | SpeedEvil | screen brightness, CPU usage, ... |
| 10:13.25 | SpeedEvil | and there is a good known upper limit |
| 10:13.25 | XorA | sounds buggers that up |
| 10:13.38 | SpeedEvil | loud sounds do effect it, yes. |
| 10:13.48 | XorA | and impedance of headphones |
| 10:13.59 | SpeedEvil | but you will never go from 50% battery state to 0% in minutes |
| 10:14.08 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r2962 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-launcher.c src/today.h): Fix bug with empty search and use MokoSearchBar in openmoko-today2 |
| 10:14.20 | SpeedEvil | unless you're severely screwing up the sums, or assuming a linear battery curve like the current one |
| 10:14.27 | tuukkah | well in the normal use case of suspend, the gsm chip is keeping contact with the base station and that takes a variable amount of power too? |
| 10:14.39 | SpeedEvil | it's variable, but fairly low. |
| 10:14.43 | tuukkah | ok |
| 10:14.46 | SpeedEvil | 30-50mA or so max |
| 10:14.47 | XorA | tuukkah: and bluetooth is constantly polling |
| 10:14.56 | SpeedEvil | Not while off. |
| 10:15.11 | SpeedEvil | (at least without considerable u-boot hackery) |
| 10:15.17 | XorA | bluetooth shouldnt be off while suspended |
| 10:15.19 | SpeedEvil | If it's possible at all |
| 10:15.20 | tuukkah | i'd expect in the normal use case bluetooth can be off |
| 10:15.32 | SpeedEvil | No, bluetooth shouldn't. |
| 10:15.38 | SpeedEvil | the right wires to support it are not there. |
| 10:15.58 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, shouldn't what? |
| 10:15.59 | SpeedEvil | so what has to happen - it seems likely to be possible, but is not certain |
| 10:16.17 | SpeedEvil | is to hack u-boot, so it supports a 'fast check' mode, which does stuff. |
| 10:17.06 | SpeedEvil | this wakes every n seconds, turns on USB, asks the bluetooth module if it's had anything interesting happen, or if there is low battery, and then goes to sleep all within a few milliseconds |
| 10:17.28 | tuukkah | it would seem to me power management is the most complex and laborous part of the whole openmoko/neo project |
| 10:17.31 | SpeedEvil | If something interesting has happened, it goes to resume to RAM |
| 10:17.44 | XorA | SpeedEvil: then you are calling reset on bluetooth, thats nasty and I doubt will work |
| 10:17.53 | SpeedEvil | no, you're not |
| 10:18.07 | XorA | Id be suprised if USB bus reset didnt reset bluetooth module |
| 10:18.09 | SpeedEvil | the bluetooth module is on the other side of the USB bus, and doesn't have reset wired like that. |
| 10:18.18 | tuukkah | why do we need to check for usb and bluetooth while in suspend? |
| 10:18.18 | SpeedEvil | it can be told to go to sleep and turn off USB |
| 10:18.32 | SpeedEvil | tuukkah: I press a button on my handsfree handset |
| 10:18.43 | SpeedEvil | I don't want to dig the neo out of my pocket to get it to respond |
| 10:19.06 | tuukkah | that sounds not the most important thing to worry about |
| 10:19.07 | SpeedEvil | and as to USB - the bluetooth module is on USB |
| 10:19.27 | SpeedEvil | no, it's something that is nice for assorted reasons though. |
| 10:19.53 | SpeedEvil | there are a number of reasons why we want to wake up on interrupts, for short periods of time, without going all the way into linux |
| 10:20.21 | SpeedEvil | for example, to ignore simple touches, but only wake on gestures across the screen |
| 10:20.25 | *** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@trl120133.kalvskinnet.hist.no) |
| 10:20.51 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, last you were saying we don't need to wake up every minute, now you're saying we need to wake up every n seconds where n is very small? |
| 10:21.01 | SpeedEvil | for different tasks |
| 10:21.26 | SpeedEvil | if you are simply caring about battery use, you can adapt it to the battery charge state |
| 10:21.43 | SpeedEvil | for example, on a fully charged battery, the first poll might be 2 hours. |
| 10:21.59 | tuukkah | yeah |
| 10:22.28 | SpeedEvil | you'd only want a minute if you are on a call, with the battery really low. |
| 10:22.35 | tuukkah | so we'd have another pm mode "suspend with handsfree bluetooth polling" |
| 10:23.17 | SpeedEvil | Something like that. |
| 10:23.18 | Lynet | Probably a stupid Q, but.. Is the battery smart enough to cut out by itself before it drains enough to damage the battery, or does that have to be handled by sw? |
| 10:23.27 | SpeedEvil | it's hardware |
| 10:23.36 | SpeedEvil | there is a thingy in the battery that cuts off at 2.8Vish |
| 10:24.13 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 10:24.27 | *** join/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@orion.thos.me.uk) |
| 10:24.28 | XorA | bonus for first person to set fire to Neo |
| 10:24.50 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, before 2.8V there's no harm done or there's no dramatic harm done? |
| 10:24.53 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2963 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ChangeLog: * Add a modeline to the ChangeLog to keep Chris happy |
| 10:24.55 | SpeedEvil | No harm at all |
| 10:25.11 | SpeedEvil | It may not be 2.8V - it's around there though |
| 10:25.22 | tuukkah | ok good, so the software side is not that critical |
| 10:25.42 | tuukkah | it's only to make fast charge etc. possible |
| 10:25.54 | tuukkah | s/possible/always available/ |
| 10:26.10 | SpeedEvil | In the totally flat battery case, we will start to charge at the 'qual' rate - which is about 10mA |
| 10:26.15 | SpeedEvil | I think for 5 min |
| 10:26.21 | SpeedEvil | this is _really_ suboptimal |
| 10:26.38 | tuukkah | ok so s/fast/faster/ |
| 10:26.43 | SpeedEvil | this is another thing we want the 'fast wake' for. |
| 10:26.50 | SpeedEvil | it can do charger turning on. |
| 10:26.57 | tuukkah | yeah |
| 10:27.32 | tuukkah | can we wake up automatically to uboot when the battery isn't totally flat anymore? |
| 10:27.57 | SpeedEvil | Possibly - I have to re-read the PMU docs |
| 10:28.00 | SpeedEvil | (150 pages) |
| 10:28.13 | tuukkah | or the user needs to wait some minutes, press the power button and then uboot can turn on the charger |
| 10:28.38 | SpeedEvil | We never, ever want to run down the battery all the way basically |
| 10:28.58 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, but it can happen, there's no way around it |
| 10:29.03 | SpeedEvil | Of course. |
| 10:29.08 | tuukkah | 99% perhaps but not 100% |
| 10:29.50 | tuukkah | it's not *that* serious if we get 10mA for 5 min |
| 10:29.51 | SpeedEvil | Sure - even if you reserve 5% power - you will lose that power over a month due to 'off' current. |
| 10:30.33 | SpeedEvil | It means that the user has to wait 10 min before the phone will actually meaningfully start to charge |
| 10:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-91-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:31.14 | tuukkah | why do they need to wait, doesn't the change to 100 mA happen automatically? |
| 10:31.37 | SpeedEvil | this is another reason for fast-wake. If you can turn on the charger in under 1s, then it means you can start that process a lot earlier |
| 10:31.50 | SpeedEvil | Alas, it's not 100mA, but 40mA |
| 10:32.24 | tuukkah | do we have these documented anywhere? |
| 10:32.36 | SpeedEvil | and yes, but if the battery is completely dead - 0V - as it will be if the internal chip has cut it off - |
| 10:32.46 | SpeedEvil | then the charger starts out at a very low rate |
| 10:33.07 | tuukkah | is this different from what you said already? |
| 10:33.13 | SpeedEvil | I'm planning on going over the power managment page. |
| 10:33.27 | tuukkah | we need more than one page |
| 10:33.40 | SpeedEvil | I have a self-consistent internal model of the power system of the neo. I may not be expressing it well. |
| 10:34.05 | SpeedEvil | Most of what's been said belongs on that page. |
| 10:34.18 | RalphEichelberge | jo |
| 10:34.43 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-41-141.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:34.45 | RalphEichelberge | i have completed the bitmake vte |
| 10:35.13 | RalphEichelberge | initiating "make openmoko-devel-image" |
| 10:35.14 | tuukkah | there's info about the chips, the configuration we use them in, the functions we have in the kernel, the functions we have in user-space... |
| 10:35.52 | RalphEichelberge | and again it cant find the package vte |
| 10:35.56 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 10:35.59 | tuukkah | then we have another set of info about how we'd *like* it to be, the requirements and decisions made about them |
| 10:36.22 | SpeedEvil | I was planning on first making the page one sane large page. |
| 10:36.29 | tuukkah | third set is documentation for end-users |
| 10:36.35 | SpeedEvil | then breaking it out into a few. |
| 10:37.30 | tuukkah | makes sense that i made a separate page about Power management menu, right? |
| 10:37.45 | SpeedEvil | suppose, yes. |
| 10:37.48 | SpeedEvil | I haven't seen it |
| 10:37.59 | tuukkah | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Power_management_menu |
| 10:38.36 | tuukkah | any feedback welcome :-) |
| 10:42.45 | RalphEichelberge | openmoko-terminal2_svn.bb' failed |
| 10:43.09 | RalphEichelberge | checking for MOKOUI... configure: error: Package requirements (libmokoui2 vte) were not met: |
| 10:43.17 | RalphEichelberge | No package 'vte' found |
| 10:43.29 | RalphEichelberge | after completed "bitbake vte" |
| 10:43.37 | RalphEichelberge | I DONT GET THIS |
| 10:44.10 | tuukkah | you should perhaps check that vte is really done and there |
| 10:44.20 | RalphEichelberge | how? |
| 10:44.35 | tuukkah | the scary directories under tmp |
| 10:44.54 | RalphEichelberge | ok |
| 10:45.06 | tuukkah | tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/vte/vte_0.16.8-r2_armv4t.ipk at least |
| 10:46.47 | tuukkah | tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/vte-0.16.8-r2/ |
| 10:46.49 | RalphEichelberge | openmoko@openmoko-celsius:~/moko/tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib$ ls libvte.* |
| 10:46.49 | RalphEichelberge | libvte.a libvte.la libvte.so libvte.so.9 libvte.so.9.2.12 |
| 10:47.54 | RalphEichelberge | openmoko@openmoko-celsius:~/moko/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t$ ls vte* -l |
| 10:47.54 | RalphEichelberge | -rw-r--r-- 1 openmoko openmoko 274216 2007-09-13 12:10 vte_0.16.8-r2_armv4t.ipk |
| 10:47.54 | RalphEichelberge | -rw-r--r-- 1 openmoko openmoko 51232 2007-09-13 12:10 vte-dbg_0.16.8-r2_armv4t.ipk |
| 10:47.54 | RalphEichelberge | -rw-r--r-- 1 openmoko openmoko 369340 2007-09-13 12:10 vte-dev_0.16.8-r2_armv4t.ipk |
| 10:47.54 | RalphEichelberge | - |
| 10:48.20 | RalphEichelberge | i ll try "bitbake -c rebuild openmoko-terminal2" |
| 10:48.59 | tuukkah | tmp/staging/pkgmaps/debian/libvte |
| 10:49.08 | guaqua | mjr: #openmoko.fi |
| 10:50.07 | RalphEichelberge | openmoko@openmoko-celsius:~/moko/tmp/staging/pkgmaps/debian$ ls libvte |
| 10:50.07 | RalphEichelberge | libvte |
| 10:50.10 | RalphEichelberge | is here |
| 10:50.49 | tuukkah | there's vte stuff all over the place, hard to tell what's critical |
| 10:51.09 | tuukkah | tmp/staging/pkgdata/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/runtime/vte |
| 10:51.14 | tuukkah | tmp/staging/pkgdata/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/runtime/libvte |
| 10:52.43 | RalphEichelberge | well there is no libvte and in my runtime dir |
| 10:52.54 | RalphEichelberge | could it be that? |
| 10:53.58 | CM | RalphEichelberge: bitbake -c rebuild of both openmoko-terminal2 and vte works just fine here, so I wonder what's messed up on your comp |
| 10:54.06 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2964 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c src/moko-keypad.c): |
| 10:54.06 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked): Update status string |
| 10:54.06 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-keypad.c: (on_dial_clicked): Close bug 814 - Number is |
| 10:54.06 | CIA-23 | openmoko: cleared when unable to dial |
| 10:54.07 | *** join/#openmoko jujun_ (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:54.15 | *** join/#openmoko emdete_ (n=mdt@total-communication.vfnet.de) |
| 10:54.54 | RalphEichelberge | i wonder too, believe me |
| 10:55.21 | RalphEichelberge | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:55.33 | RalphEichelberge | package openmoko-terminal2-2.1.0+r2879: failed |
| 10:55.44 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 10:55.51 | tuukkah | so you got further? |
| 10:55.53 | *** join/#openmoko Canute-_ (n=canute@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) |
| 10:56.18 | tuukkah | is thomas wood on this channel? |
| 10:56.20 | RalphEichelberge | no I did that bitbake -c rebuild openmoko-terminal2 |
| 10:56.24 | CM | RalphEichelberge: Do you have symlinks in the directory? |
| 10:56.34 | RalphEichelberge | no |
| 10:56.41 | CM | tuukkah: thos |
| 10:56.42 | RalphEichelberge | i didt nothing |
| 10:56.53 | tuukkah | thos, ping :-) |
| 10:57.03 | RalphEichelberge | yesterday i "rm -r moko" |
| 10:57.14 | RalphEichelberge | weget the Makefile |
| 10:57.20 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet_ (n=larsg@ti500710a080-4999.bb.online.no) |
| 10:57.26 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, perhaps bitbake -c mrproper does more that -c rebuild |
| 10:57.29 | RalphEichelberge | and started to compile with make |
| 10:57.38 | CM | RalphEichelberge: It's very odd, since no one else have had these problems when starting from scratch |
| 10:57.54 | RalphEichelberge | i dont know, why that should be nesesary |
| 10:58.13 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, well i had problems about vte and terminal, i think it was because of parallel bitbake |
| 10:58.32 | RalphEichelberge | yeah, i should just build, period |
| 10:58.55 | RalphEichelberge | parallel? can i switch that |
| 10:59.05 | CM | RalphEichelberge: You have a dualcore? |
| 10:59.29 | RalphEichelberge | maybe - its not my PC |
| 10:59.30 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, PARALLEL_MAKE and BB_NUMBER_THREADS |
| 10:59.50 | tuukkah | off by default and safer that way |
| 11:00.28 | CM | tuukkah: But if he's running the default makefile, that stuff should be off shouldn't it? |
| 11:00.33 | RalphEichelberge | i didnt change anything |
| 11:00.40 | RalphEichelberge | so it should be off still |
| 11:00.47 | tuukkah | ok |
| 11:01.19 | RalphEichelberge | i ll try to "bitbake libmokoui2" now |
| 11:01.43 | RalphEichelberge | but why dont bitbake do this automaticaly |
| 11:01.43 | tuukkah | yes, that's the next step you got to that i meant |
| 11:01.59 | *** join/#openmoko mwester-road (n=chatzill@12.47.40.226) |
| 11:02.11 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, the dependency metadata can have bugs you know |
| 11:02.25 | RalphEichelberge | i build a lot of kernels in the old days but i had never such trouble |
| 11:02.37 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2220-ipbf2608marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 11:02.43 | RalphEichelberge | oh i see |
| 11:03.02 | tuukkah | there can be more bugs, there can be less bugs. the bugs might affect you, they might not |
| 11:03.03 | RalphEichelberge | shouldnt we report it somewhere? |
| 11:03.09 | raster | mooh |
| 11:03.21 | RalphEichelberge | meeeh |
| 11:03.22 | CM | RalphEichelberge: Better to figure out what is wrong first |
| 11:03.25 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, good point, if we understand enough about what's going on |
| 11:03.34 | RalphEichelberge | i c |
| 11:03.46 | RalphEichelberge | well its compiling again |
| 11:03.50 | CM | tuukkah: Great minds think alike, or how is it the saying goes? |
| 11:03.54 | CM | ;) |
| 11:03.57 | RalphEichelberge | i will do my brake now |
| 11:04.04 | tuukkah | CM =) |
| 11:04.17 | RalphEichelberge | reporting back lager |
| 11:04.21 | RalphEichelberge | later* |
| 11:04.29 | CM | RalphEichelberge: No, we like lager ;) |
| 11:05.19 | tuukkah | if this is the correct bitbake file at least it doesn't include the dependencies: org.openembedded.dev/packages/openmoko-apps/openmoko-terminal_svn.bb |
| 11:05.49 | CM | tuukkah: Isn't it a 2 missing? |
| 11:06.24 | tuukkah | ok |
| 11:06.30 | tuukkah | so org.openembedded.dev/packages/openmoko2/openmoko-terminal2_svn.bb |
| 11:06.55 | tuukkah | which does have DEPENDS = "libmokoui2" RDEPENDS = "vte" |
| 11:09.11 | tuukkah | where are DEPENDS and RDEPENDS documented? not in bitbake manual at least |
| 11:10.47 | cesarb | tuukkah: isn't it the same as portage, which bitbake was based on? |
| 11:11.08 | tuukkah | ok so do i need to learn portage now :-) |
| 11:11.29 | tuukkah | ok "DEPENDS variable, which contains a space seperated list of “package names”" |
| 11:11.38 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@rosine187.inf.fu-berlin.de) |
| 11:11.46 | tuukkah | that much is what the bitbake manual says |
| 11:12.12 | tuukkah | source package names for compile-time dependencies, that much i can infer from the context |
| 11:12.50 | tuukkah | i think i read somewhere that RDEPENDS is runtime dependency |
| 11:13.50 | XorA | tuukkah: RalphEichelberge please update your meta data its seriously out of date |
| 11:14.00 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 11:14.58 | zdanek | guys, what about sending DTMF tones while calling? |
| 11:15.11 | zdanek | important especially while in voice mail |
| 11:16.35 | gnu | zdanek: How well can you whistle? :-) |
| 11:16.41 | borg_ | !ombug 814 |
| 11:17.07 | cesarb | borg_: give up, the bot has been dead for weeks ;-) |
| 11:17.16 | borg_ | :\ |
| 11:18.08 | zdanek | I can't whistle bi-tonally :D |
| 11:18.34 | inz | zdanek, imo it would be cool, if dtmf-tones were interpreted during a call, the numbers pressed would end up on the screen or something |
| 11:19.03 | inz | zdanek, easy way to transfer phone numbers ;9 |
| 11:19.40 | zash_se | inz: that would be niceness! |
| 11:19.41 | zdanek | I meant to push number and to send tone via gsm channel |
| 11:19.51 | zdanek | but what you said is also very good |
| 11:19.53 | tuukkah | XorA, that change (DEPENDS = "vte libmokoui2") can't fix it all since libmokoui2 was already in DEPENDS still the build was missing that... |
| 11:20.31 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 11:20.38 | XorA | zdanek: AT+VTD=X is the GSM comand for DTMF tones |
| 11:21.02 | folken | i just wish for more gsmd stability.. everything else seems less important. |
| 11:21.06 | tuukkah | XorA, where X is one digit? |
| 11:21.15 | XorA | tuukkah: yes |
| 11:21.34 | tuukkah | cool, should be easy to add in dialer then |
| 11:22.11 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 11:22.50 | zdanek | yep |
| 11:22.57 | zdanek | XorA: thx |
| 11:23.08 | tuukkah | so the keypad stays as a tab during calls |
| 11:23.09 | zdanek | I should learn more AT commands :) |
| 11:23.28 | Lynet_ | What, we can't manage with atdt and atz? |
| 11:23.47 | folken | is adding gsmd to inittab a smart idea? |
| 11:23.50 | tuukkah | Lynet, the issue was on-call dtmf |
| 11:24.16 | tuukkah | folken, it's in /etc/init.d like daemons typically are |
| 11:24.17 | Lynet_ | tuukkah: I know, that was an (admittedly botched) attempt at a joke. |
| 11:24.29 | folken | tuukkah: yes.. but it dies at random. |
| 11:24.30 | cesarb | Lynet_: atdt isn't DTMF, so you fail at the joke ;-) |
| 11:24.49 | cesarb | (it's some ISDN-based thingy instead) |
| 11:25.03 | tuukkah | Lynet_, oh you just forgot a smiley then and it would have been a good joke :-) |
| 11:25.56 | folken | how about an incall menu with "send dtmf" then popup dialer, with a close button which returns to the call screen? |
| 11:25.57 | XorA | what we really need is send 2400+2600 tone to seize lines old skewl style |
| 11:26.13 | folken | XorA: lol |
| 11:26.34 | tuukkah | folken, i'd say tabs are better. what would a menu and a popup gain over that? |
| 11:26.58 | folken | tuukkah: hmm actually you are right.. tabs is the better idea. |
| 11:27.12 | folken | s/is/are/ |
| 11:27.29 | tuukkah | folken, *one* idea *is* |
| 11:27.32 | tuukkah | ;-) |
| 11:28.45 | folken | that's what one gets for correcting himself. |
| 11:32.17 | rwhitby | folken: do you have the latest ipks with the console= removal and the gsmd restart in matchbox session? That's the path to gsmd stability. |
| 11:32.56 | folken | rwhitby: did all that. it still crashes after some tinkering (e.g. normal usage with thumb.) |
| 11:33.19 | Lynet_ | n00b question: How long is make setup supposed to take? |
| 11:33.31 | rwhitby | anywhere between 2 and 6 hours |
| 11:33.36 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5768F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:33.39 | tuukkah | folken, have you noticed that it has become very difficult to select items in Today with thumb? |
| 11:33.41 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A758d.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 11:33.47 | hhf423 | re |
| 11:34.01 | hhf423 | I think the style of the user gnu is somewhat questionable |
| 11:34.02 | rwhitby | (mostly depending on your network speed and monotone version |
| 11:34.18 | folken | tuukkah: yes. the full row should be selectable imo. |
| 11:34.32 | rwhitby | svn: Unable to find repository location for 'http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2' \ |
| 11:34.32 | rwhitby | in revision 1 |
| 11:34.32 | tuukkah | folken, it isn't ?! |
| 11:34.33 | thos | folken, it is |
| 11:34.41 | rwhitby | hmm - looks like a SRCREV is missing |
| 11:34.41 | folken | tuukkah: acuttally it is selectable.. but it requires about 3 times tabbing. |
| 11:34.41 | tuukkah | hello thos :-) |
| 11:34.54 | hhf423 | test hhf423 |
| 11:34.54 | folken | tuukkah: sorry false alarm. :) |
| 11:35.03 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-119.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:35.03 | thos | folken, it's an issue with the jitter on the display and the scrolling |
| 11:35.04 | tuukkah | i thought it just isn't sensitive somehow |
| 11:35.17 | tuukkah | thos, could more jitter be tolerated? |
| 11:35.17 | XorA | thos: I too have a faulty thumb :-) |
| 11:35.29 | XorA | thos: all works perfect with styluys though |
| 11:35.32 | thos | tuukkah, possibly, mickey already added some compensation |
| 11:35.39 | folken | thos: according to debug out it recieves the click |
| 11:35.40 | thos | XorA, exactly :-) |
| 11:35.54 | tuukkah | thos, are you working dialer still? |
| 11:35.55 | XorA | we just need to get thumbs surgically improved |
| 11:36.06 | tuukkah | working on :-) |
| 11:36.08 | thos | tuukkah, yes |
| 11:36.17 | thos | XorA, they need to be more pointy ;-) |
| 11:36.32 | XorA | remove skin back past bone, grind bone to sharp point and card with stainless steel |
| 11:36.50 | thos | folken, it will recieve a "mouse down, move, mouse up" which trigers scrolling rather than a click |
| 11:36.51 | tuukkah | thos, could you check that the command line options -d 12345 and --dial 12345 work and the number appears on the widget? |
| 11:37.14 | folken | thos: ah, ok. |
| 11:38.16 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@ag-d15.rhi.hi.is) |
| 11:38.23 | tuukkah | thos, only --dial=12345 worked when i tried to test and even then the number didn't appear on the widget |
| 11:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@78.16.4.114) |
| 11:38.50 | folken | whats interesting is that the buttons in the main menu (e.g. dialer contacts) work witouth problems. Its only the selection in the "application manager" where the running tasks are shown that it is difficult to select an application. |
| 11:38.55 | thos | tuukkah, hmm, all I get is "Not connected" |
| 11:39.03 | Lynet_ | another n00b question: Is the qemu emulation good enough to get started poking around in openmoko and devel/contribute stuff or is real hardware required? |
| 11:39.56 | rwhitby | Lynet: for UI stuff, absolutely |
| 11:40.07 | rwhitby | for low level drivers, no. |
| 11:40.36 | tuukkah | thos, the dialog? so perhaps it works now |
| 11:41.05 | thos | tuukkah, it doesn't enter the number into the display though |
| 11:41.16 | thos | tuukkah, I would rather people used the dbus interface if they could |
| 11:41.33 | tuukkah | thos, doesn't -d use dbus? |
| 11:42.00 | thos | tuukkah, use the dbus interface instead of calling openmoko-dialer |
| 11:42.12 | tuukkah | what does -d use then? |
| 11:42.22 | thos | you are still calling openmoko-dialer |
| 11:42.31 | thos | calling/executing |
| 11:42.35 | tuukkah | sure, i'm just curious |
| 11:42.58 | thos | tuukkah, openmoko-dialer *is* a dbus service |
| 11:43.08 | tuukkah | (and i'm shell scripting so i don't know how to use the dbus interface) |
| 11:43.21 | thos | right |
| 11:43.31 | thos | now why on earth are you shell scripting the dialer? ;-) |
| 11:43.46 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-41-141.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:43.55 | tuukkah | i made this funny app that lets you call a number from any app |
| 11:44.06 | thos | funny app? |
| 11:44.15 | thos | written as a shell script? |
| 11:44.28 | folken | funky app. |
| 11:44.37 | tuukkah | by selecting the number and launching the script via the neod aux menu |
| 11:45.13 | thos | tuukkah, write it in python then ;-) |
| 11:45.33 | tuukkah | thos, i can do that, but it's not the simplest thing. that's why i'm curious about the reasons |
| 11:45.57 | thos | the reason we have a dbus interface is exactly so you can write that sort of application |
| 11:46.15 | thos | writing a shell script may be easy, but it is far from ideal |
| 11:46.28 | tuukkah | but you haven't told me what dialer -d does and why it doesn't do the dbus thing |
| 11:46.29 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 11:46.43 | rwhitby | does anyone have a favourite basic introduction to dbus tutorial ? |
| 11:47.02 | zash_se | thougt: use uri's.. like callto:<number> and some urihandlingthingy ? |
| 11:47.30 | thos | tuukkah, you are talking about two different things |
| 11:47.41 | thos | tuukkah, executing the dialer, and using dbus |
| 11:47.47 | tuukkah | yes? |
| 11:47.54 | thos | tuukkah, yes executing the dialer will start using dbus |
| 11:48.00 | thos | but that misses the point |
| 11:48.05 | thos | you don't need to execute the dialer |
| 11:48.19 | thos | infact, that's the whole point of the dialer being a dbus service |
| 11:48.40 | thos | you can call the method through dbus and it will start the dialer only if necassary |
| 11:49.27 | tuukkah | thos, dialer -d also seems to call using an existing dialer process if there is one |
| 11:49.47 | thos | tuukkah, of course it will, but you are still forking and creating a new process |
| 11:50.00 | tuukkah | it doesn't matter, does it? |
| 11:50.18 | thos | well what's the point, since it will use the existing process anyway |
| 11:50.18 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.121.2) |
| 11:50.31 | thos | you might as well use the existing process directly through dbus |
| 11:50.53 | tuukkah | thos, you're telling me this is an important efficiency to achieve versus the simplicity of being able to call a command in shell? |
| 11:51.44 | thos | tuukkah, i'm saying the reason we added a dbus service was so applications could communicate with the dialer |
| 11:52.12 | thos | tuukkah, calling the dialer through the command line is totally inferior way of accessing it |
| 11:52.21 | rwhitby | tuukkah: it's analogous to the reason why you don't start a new Apache process for every single http request ... |
| 11:53.01 | rwhitby | think of the dialer as a call initiation server, not as an executable |
| 11:53.09 | tuukkah | rwhitby, you can do that, if there aren't too many requests per second for your system to handle the forks |
| 11:53.37 | rwhitby | sure you can. you can reboot your system between http requests too ;-) |
| 11:53.42 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 11:53.42 | guaqua | dbus also makes it a whole lot easier to create apps with different languages |
| 11:54.18 | tuukkah | man you people aren't understanding my point at all. this is one tradeoff between performance and ease-of-use. it's a tradeoff |
| 11:54.39 | thos | tuukkah, it's a trade off between that and "doing things the right way" |
| 11:54.54 | guaqua | so using an executable and handling it is easier than using the provided dbus interface? |
| 11:55.10 | tuukkah | guaqua, yes, in the shell |
| 11:55.25 | guaqua | so you are going to tell me the phone is going to be used from the shell? |
| 11:55.28 | rwhitby | guaqua: it probably is for someone who isn't familiar with dbus (like me). |
| 11:55.44 | rwhitby | but if the dialer author tells me I should be using dbus to access it, then I learn dbus. |
| 11:55.54 | guaqua | rwhitby: i'm not familiar with dbus, either, but it can't be harder than inventing the whell again with process handling |
| 11:55.55 | tuukkah | guaqua, i was making a shell script which is accessed from gui |
| 11:56.08 | tuukkah | guaqua, there already is the -d option |
| 11:56.29 | tuukkah | i wasn't even saying it shouldn't be removed at this point, i was just *asking* |
| 11:56.42 | folken | "deutschsparchige bull user society" i guess dbus.org isn't it. |
| 11:57.03 | guaqua | off course, you can even make a command line phone - this is an open source project |
| 11:57.43 | zash_se | http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-tutorial.html |
| 11:57.51 | zash_se | :| |
| 11:58.07 | tuukkah | thos, thanks for telling me -d is an obsolete or otherwise wrong way to do this, could you help me get started with dbus by telling what options to pass dbus-send to achieve the same functionality? |
| 11:58.11 | Lynet_ | http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus |
| 11:58.24 | thos | tuukkah, i'm just looking that up myself actually ;-) |
| 11:58.33 | tuukkah | thos, cool :-) |
| 11:59.04 | tuukkah | i'll promise to change to using that right away and change to python call later on |
| 11:59.37 | rwhitby | zash_se, Lynet_: thx |
| 12:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@rt94.highlink.ru) |
| 12:02.07 | tuukkah | rwhitby, was there still something wrong with the openmoko-terminal2 bb file? |
| 12:02.19 | rwhitby | missing SRCREV |
| 12:02.30 | rwhitby | (in sane-srcrevs.inc) |
| 12:03.04 | tuukkah | which meant that we weren't always building a stable version? |
| 12:04.09 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:04.23 | rwhitby | up until the last 4 hours or so, we've never been building a stable version |
| 12:05.01 | tuukkah | ok |
| 12:05.22 | rwhitby | and unfortunately, the "require conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc" line in openmoko.conf (which I say should *not* be there) means we will still not be building stable versions of openmoko-* packages. |
| 12:06.25 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@193.120.148.177) |
| 12:06.43 | rwhitby | I'm not sure whether it was koen or mickey|zzZZzz who decided to put that in there, but I say it shouldn't be there. The OpenMoko developers should be forced to change the revision in sane-srcrevs each time they intentionally want to release a new (rudimentally tested) version of a package to the community for further testing |
| 12:07.11 | rwhitby | I am considering making MokoMakefile patch out that line in protest. |
| 12:07.44 | rwhitby | (or add known good versions to preferred-openmoko-versions.inc) |
| 12:07.48 | CM | rwhitby: Sounds reasonalbe to me |
| 12:07.55 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 12:09.00 | CM | Many people here, including me, are total oe and bitbake newbies and just want the image to build. |
| 12:09.42 | thos | tuukkah, ok, try this: dbus-send --type=method_call --print-reply --dest="org.openmoko.Dialer" /org/openmoko/Dialer org.openmoko.Dialer.Dial string:'450' |
| 12:10.16 | thos | tuukkah, infact, only this is required: dbus-send --dest="org.openmoko.Dialer" /org/openmoko/Dialer org.openmoko.Dialer.Dial string:'450' |
| 12:10.38 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db32091.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 12:11.08 | zefanja | hi...where can I set the font size in the applikations? |
| 12:11.49 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 12:14.28 | tuukkah | thos, i made that into a script openmoko-dialer-dial and it seems to work. thanks! |
| 12:15.06 | thos | tuukkah, cool :-) |
| 12:15.26 | tuukkah | thos, would it be bad to include that script in the package? |
| 12:15.43 | thos | tuukkah, which package? |
| 12:15.51 | tuukkah | openmoko-dialer |
| 12:16.27 | thos | tuukkah, how long is it? |
| 12:16.37 | rwhitby | should be a one-liner ;-) |
| 12:16.50 | thos | that's what I thought too :-) |
| 12:17.08 | tuukkah | thos, only "#!/bin/sh" and the line you gave with '450' replaced by "$1" |
| 12:17.17 | thos | i guess an example directory might be neat |
| 12:18.05 | thos | tuukkah, I haven't looked yet, but it should be possible to process a return value |
| 12:18.22 | thos | tuukkah, for example you could know if there is already a call in progress or something |
| 12:18.49 | tuukkah | that would be cool to get as a return value from the script |
| 12:18.53 | thos | actually, there should at least be a method to check the dialer status anyway |
| 12:19.37 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@trung.tam.mua.ban.trao.doi.phu.nu) |
| 12:21.12 | tuukkah | thos, is the dialer process meant to always be there even if no window is open? |
| 12:22.52 | RalphEichelberge | | checking for MOKOUI... configure: error: Package requirements (libmokoui2 vte) were not met: No package 'vte' found |
| 12:22.52 | RalphEichelberge | | |
| 12:24.31 | thos | tuukkah, it's a service, so yes |
| 12:24.45 | thos | tuukkah, if it's not running, dbus is supposed to start it when you call into it |
| 12:24.51 | RalphEichelberge | sorry, but I am trying to compile this thing now for over 2 weeks |
| 12:25.00 | RalphEichelberge | still not working |
| 12:25.01 | tuukkah | thos, yeah it seems to even with this script |
| 12:25.27 | *** join/#openmoko josch_ (n=josch@p54B6D1BD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:25.29 | RalphEichelberge | i just did, what i found in the wiki page for MakeMoko or shuch |
| 12:25.57 | *** join/#openmoko bahadunn (n=bahadunn@65.75.116.48) |
| 12:26.22 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:26.24 | josch_ | hi! is the python-gtkhtml2 binding in openembedded? |
| 12:26.33 | bahadunn | any of you guys own a GTA01? |
| 12:26.39 | tuukkah | thos, but not always :-( i'm trying to understand what's going on |
| 12:26.39 | thos | bahadunn, yes |
| 12:26.55 | *** join/#openmoko DPThought (n=tilli@62.206.217.68) |
| 12:26.55 | bahadunn | thos: what do you think of it? |
| 12:26.55 | thos | tuukkah, yeah, i just tried it - it seems to start the dialer but also report missing method |
| 12:27.03 | *** join/#openmoko der_io (n=der@p54A0FD7A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:27.04 | RalphEichelberge | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:27.09 | thos | bahadunn, um, what for? |
| 12:27.24 | tuukkah | thos, then on second try it works |
| 12:27.26 | thos | josch_, probably, but we are using webkit in openmoko |
| 12:27.41 | thos | tuukkah, did you kill the dialer in between? |
| 12:27.49 | RalphEichelberge | that is the source of all i have on my workstations |
| 12:27.54 | tuukkah | thos, not between the tries |
| 12:28.22 | thos | tuukkah, oh sorry, mine had an error connecting to gsmd |
| 12:28.27 | josch_ | thos: so where can I find webkit for python? |
| 12:28.28 | rwhitby | RalphEichelberge: there are hundreds of people who have been able to build openmoko at various times using MokoMakefile, so instead of just repeating the error, you need to go back to basics and check all assumptions about your environment, |
| 12:28.37 | thos | josch_, no idea |
| 12:28.37 | bahadunn | thos: I am thinking about selling them here when the GTA02 comes out and I am trying to get a feel for how the it is |
| 12:28.37 | tuukkah | thos, yeah saw that one too at some point |
| 12:28.52 | thos | bahadunn, GTA02 is a whole different kettle of fish |
| 12:29.01 | bahadunn | thos: I know |
| 12:29.04 | RalphEichelberge | ok, so where to start - which page? |
| 12:29.40 | RalphEichelberge | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ? |
| 12:30.10 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-3-191.37-151.net24.it) |
| 12:30.13 | thos | tuukkah, eek, I seem to have a zombied dialer process :-) |
| 12:30.59 | tuukkah | thos, killall openmoko-dialer. the first time running the script after that, the dialer complains about gsmd and exits. the second time, it compiles about the interface but the process stays. the third time, it works |
| 12:31.23 | thos | tuukkah, i'll investigate after lunch |
| 12:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley (n=bmidgley@32-111.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr) |
| 12:31.30 | rwhitby | RalphEichelberge: yep |
| 12:31.31 | thos | tuukkah, I think the dialer initialisation process could do with a little clean up |
| 12:31.48 | tuukkah | thos, about the zombie, /etc/matchbox/session must be starting it the wrong way |
| 12:31.49 | thos | tuukkah, (which is one reason -d wasn't going to work) |
| 12:31.55 | rwhitby | RalphEichelberge: and use a 32-bit Debian Etch or Ubuntu 7.04 host for most reliable results. |
| 12:32.04 | tuukkah | thos, so you can remove -d now? |
| 12:32.25 | thos | tuukkah, hope so :-) |
| 12:33.09 | tuukkah | thos, it would be really nice for hackability to include the shell script on the phone though, so people can quickly find how to access the dbus interface |
| 12:33.28 | RalphEichelberge | i am using ubuntu 7.04 |
| 12:33.44 | RalphEichelberge | just set up for that only thing openmoko |
| 12:33.50 | tuukkah | openmoko-dial<TAB>, and you see there's an openmoko-dialer-dial. try that, less that, go :-) |
| 12:34.13 | RalphEichelberge | i did all apt-get install for the openembedded.org |
| 12:34.30 | RalphEichelberge | and I really don't know what to do nest |
| 12:34.35 | RalphEichelberge | next* |
| 12:34.38 | rwhitby | RalphEichelberge: 32-bit? |
| 12:34.42 | RalphEichelberge | yes |
| 12:34.49 | RalphEichelberge | ist a laptop so |
| 12:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A56D9E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:35.12 | rwhitby | ok, I build on OM on xubuntu 7.04 regularly. |
| 12:36.10 | *** part/#openmoko bahadunn (n=bahadunn@65.75.116.48) |
| 12:36.31 | *** join/#openmoko Ycros (n=Ycros@gnaw.yi.org) |
| 12:38.28 | RalphEichelberge | ok - so - what should i do to finaly get a working development enviroment |
| 12:41.21 | zdanek | did you know that some guys broke iPhone's SIMLock? |
| 12:41.33 | *** part/#openmoko josch_ (n=josch@p54B6D1BD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:41.36 | zdanek | http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/24/iphone-unlocked-atandt-loses-iphone-exclusivity-august-24-2007/ |
| 12:41.54 | zefanja | hey again: where can I change the font size? In my OpenMoko build for the TX all fonts are _very_ small |
| 12:41.56 | zefanja | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U09iNOqnBL0 |
| 12:42.39 | tuukkah | XorA, do forgot to tell me what to put in bugzilla to assing the bug to you? |
| 12:42.49 | tuukkah | s/do/you/ |
| 12:43.09 | XorA | tuukkah: assign to graeme.gregory@wolfsonmicro.com |
| 12:43.19 | *** join/#openmoko eggsy (n=eric@static-66-173-205-3.t1.cavtel.net) |
| 12:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko RP (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net) |
| 12:44.15 | tuukkah | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=842 "Whenever possible, Amp Mode should be Off" |
| 12:45.10 | XorA | tuukkah: cheers |
| 12:45.14 | Any_Key | is something happened to mailllists? I haven't received nothing today |
| 12:47.10 | Any_Key | s/mailllists/maillists/g |
| 12:47.17 | niclone | hi, is there any news about the bug #666? do we'll have a firmware upgrade? |
| 12:47.18 | RalphEichelberge | model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) III Mobile CPU 1133MHz |
| 12:48.12 | rwhitby | niclone: latest message on the list indicates a GSM firmware upgrade is required, but no information on whether that means a return to vendor to get it done, and the firmware upgrade has not been developed yet. |
| 12:48.39 | niclone | rwhitby: ok :/ thanks |
| 12:48.48 | zdanek | zefanja: is it yours finger? :) |
| 12:49.04 | zefanja | jpp...too big ;-) |
| 12:49.43 | zefanja | ? |
| 12:49.58 | zdanek | nope, it's okay :) |
| 12:50.40 | zdanek | niclone: I tell you this bug #666 is pure evil :D |
| 12:50.58 | RalphEichelberge | What does that mean? |
| 12:50.59 | RalphEichelberge | NOTE: preferred version 0.5.0+svn20070913 of osb-browser not available (for item osb-browser) |
| 12:51.07 | niclone | zdanek: i know :( |
| 12:51.49 | niclone | zdanek: i'm about considering finding another sim card, but it's not easy to know if it will work or not (i'm in france) |
| 12:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@32-111.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr) |
| 12:54.02 | zdanek | niclone:ask provider for non 3g card |
| 12:54.13 | rwhitby | RalphEichelberge: my build (which started 2 days ago, but hasn't been running continuously all that time) just completed. |
| 12:54.13 | zdanek | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:55.26 | rwhitby | RalphEichelberge: that message means that somewhere, someone said that a specific version of that package is preferred for that DISTRO. It will choose the latest version instead and try and build that. If it builds, then it's usually not a problem. |
| 12:55.57 | zdanek | I must be going |
| 12:56.01 | zdanek | best regards to all |
| 12:56.02 | zdanek | bye |
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| 13:02.09 | niclone | well, every providers now give 3G card :/ |
| 13:05.17 | *** part/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 13:05.53 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:06.35 | El_Salvador | every providers? |
| 13:06.39 | El_Salvador | where? |
| 13:07.19 | XorA | amusingly, UK providers were at this time last year using 2g SIMs in 3g phones |
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| 13:10.57 | niclone | El_Salvador: in france |
| 13:11.15 | niclone | El_Salvador: afaik |
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| 13:12.34 | niclone | El_Salvador: i'm looking at all operators, they all talk about 3G... so i suppose the sim card is 3G |
| 13:14.27 | zefanja | bye..I have to go |
| 13:15.02 | jpcass | rwhitby: thanks for mokomakefile, i was studying it this morning... |
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| 13:16.45 | jpcass | just wondering, is there a reason you use " [ ! -e filename ] || " rather than " [ -e filename ] && ? |
| 13:18.54 | tuukkah | at least some typical idioms are "wanted-condition || fix" and "pre-condition && proceed" |
| 13:20.31 | jpcass | i read it as "if filename doesnt exist, dont do the following" |
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| 13:22.19 | tuukkah | umm with || it means "if filename doesn't exist, do the following" |
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| 13:23.31 | tuukkah | and naturally with && "if filename exists then do the following". no unnecessary negations |
| 13:24.24 | jpcass | i thought && meant proceed if condition true and || proceed if condition false? |
| 13:24.36 | RalphEichelberge | anyone! |
| 13:24.54 | tuukkah | jpcass, isn't that what i say? |
| 13:25.11 | RalphEichelberge | is ther a other way to develop for openmoko other than buidling that MokoMakefile |
| 13:25.14 | RalphEichelberge | ? |
| 13:25.32 | tuukkah | jpcass, of course the direct meaning of the operators is boolean "and" and boolean "or" |
| 13:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko minime (n=minime@v26038.topnetworks.de) |
| 13:25.52 | tuukkah | (with short-circuit evaluation) |
| 13:26.06 | rwhitby | jpcass: those are just my personal idioms I guess. |
| 13:26.17 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, you can use bitbake without mokomakefile |
| 13:26.21 | jpcass | [ ! -e filename ] is true if filename doesnt exist. |
| 13:26.38 | jpcass | so [ ! -e filename ] && xyz says "do xyz if fiename doesnt exist" |
| 13:26.46 | rwhitby | I usually make the first clause mean what I want it to mean, and then adjust the operator and second clause to match |
| 13:26.50 | jpcass | and [ ! -e filename ] || xyz says "do not do xyz if fiename doesnt exist" |
| 13:26.58 | tuukkah | jpcass, sure. i was talking conditions in general. |
| 13:27.25 | jpcass | rwhitby: ok, thanks - I just thought I might have been missing something... |
| 13:27.28 | tuukkah | jpcass, it's "filename is missing or otherwise xyz" |
| 13:27.42 | rwhitby | I tend to use || more than && for some reason |
| 13:28.06 | jpcass | rwhitby: i noticed - thought it might be because they look a bit like pipes. |
| 13:28.13 | jpcass | ;-) |
| 13:28.13 | rwhitby | I think I usually put the second part in first, and then put the first part in there to inhibit it |
| 13:28.37 | RalphEichelberge | tuukkah: if i do - ala bitbake world - it says nothing to do |
| 13:28.55 | rwhitby | jpcass: it also has to do with what the resulting complete expression will return to make - you don't want it to return false, or else make will stop with an error |
| 13:29.04 | rwhitby | actually I think that is the main reason |
| 13:29.27 | RalphEichelberge | do someone know how to find that problem in configure |
| 13:29.29 | RalphEichelberge | ? |
| 13:29.39 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, you should follow the instructions from start: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Building_2007.2 |
| 13:30.21 | tuukkah | rwhitby, very good point :-) |
| 13:30.23 | jpcass | rwhitby: ! ah! never thought of that - that must be why some expressions end in " || true " |
| 13:30.31 | rwhitby | ye |
| 13:30.32 | rwhitby | p |
| 13:31.00 | rwhitby | there is method to the madness ;-) |
| 13:31.12 | jpcass | i thought so, its nice to understand the method! |
| 13:32.03 | tuukkah | rwhitby, do you know "BUILD_ALL_DEPS" and do we use it? |
| 13:33.02 | rwhitby | tuukkah: the openmoko-feed target uses it |
| 13:33.41 | rwhitby | in general, "meta" packages in OE define it. |
| 13:34.08 | rwhitby | (openmoko-feed.bb is a "meta" package) |
| 13:34.12 | tuukkah | could openmoko-devel-image use it too so that we wouldn't miss any RDEPENDS in the rootfs? |
| 13:34.22 | tuukkah | or would it work like that? |
| 13:34.40 | nbd | t/wi26 |
| 13:34.42 | nbd | oops |
| 13:34.46 | rwhitby | tuukkah: RDEPENDS inclusion in the image is not affected by BUILD_ALL_DEPS |
| 13:35.10 | rwhitby | if an RDEPENDS of the image is missing from the image, then it's a bug. |
| 13:35.24 | tuukkah | ok, i just understood some old message on bitbake like that |
| 13:35.39 | rwhitby | If a DEPENDS (note the missing 'R') is not in an image, then that's not a problem - if it needs to be in the image then it should be an RDEPENDS |
| 13:35.47 | tuukkah | rwhitby, so there's no way for us to enforce that? |
| 13:36.16 | rwhitby | tuukkah: what do you mean by enforce. it's doing the right thing already, so we would be enforcing the wrong thing. |
| 13:36.42 | tuukkah | rwhitby, i mean it would be the right thing to make sure that all RDEPENDS of the image are in the image |
| 13:36.51 | rwhitby | tuukkah: that is the case already |
| 13:36.58 | tuukkah | rwhitby, there have been bugs |
| 13:37.17 | tuukkah | it would be better if it was enforced by the build tools or if it was automatic |
| 13:37.30 | rwhitby | it is automatic. based on RDEPENDS. |
| 13:37.57 | jpcass | rwhitby: mokomakefile can apply for openmoko, openembedded and bitbake but my svn checkout has no files in ~moko/patches... |
| 13:38.08 | jpcass | are there just none needed at the moment? |
| 13:38.14 | rwhitby | jpcass: that is correct |
| 13:38.21 | tuukkah | rwhitby, you said "if an RDEPENDS of the image is missing from the image, then it's a bug." do you mean a bug in bitbake or bug in the image description? |
| 13:38.34 | rwhitby | a bug in the OE metadata, not bitbake |
| 13:38.41 | tuukkah | yes |
| 13:38.48 | rwhitby | (i.e. someone writing a .bb recipe didn't set RDEPENDS correctly) |
| 13:38.53 | tuukkah | so that's what i meant by it not being automatic. you can make a bug |
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| 13:39.08 | jpcass | rwhitby: that facility is just for providing quick temporary fix without having to push upstream sometimes? |
| 13:39.17 | rwhitby | if you're talking about something that generates the correct values for RDEPENDS automatically, then that's a completely different question |
| 13:39.20 | tuukkah | rwhitby, i thought didn't define the image correctly to include all RDEPENDS? |
| 13:39.35 | rwhitby | jpcass: yes, for cases where we know it's wrong, but can't find someone to fix it upstream. |
| 13:40.21 | rwhitby | tuukkah: as far as I know, if you define RDEPENDS correctly in each of the packages, and in the image recipe, then bitbake will correctly build and install all those referenced packages in the image rootfs. |
| 13:41.20 | rwhitby | if, however, someone doesn't set RDEPENDS correctly for one of the packages, and no other recipe RDEPENDS on it, then that package will (rightly) not end up in the image |
| 13:41.21 | tuukkah | rwhitby, but if openmoko-terminal2 has RDEPENDS="vte" and openmoko-devel-image has RDEPENDS="openmoko-terminal2", is vte going to be in the rootfs? |
| 13:41.33 | rwhitby | yes it will |
| 13:41.53 | rwhitby | it's a transitive relationship |
| 13:42.08 | tuukkah | thanks, finally i got it :-) |
| 13:42.28 | rwhitby | ok, you get to document it for the next guy. |
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| 13:42.43 | tuukkah | my skills in this language seem to be ~0 |
| 13:42.57 | rwhitby | what's your native language? |
| 13:42.59 | tuukkah | rwhitby, can you just suggest where at? |
| 13:43.06 | tuukkah | rwhitby, finnish |
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| 13:43.35 | rwhitby | well, your english is infinitely better than my finnish, so I don't think you should be the one apologising |
| 13:43.37 | mbuf | tuukkah, tried openmoko-fi ? |
| 13:43.39 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 13:44.06 | tuukkah | mbuf, we're very quiet and small bunch there - just like Finland in general ;-) |
| 13:44.18 | tuukkah | rwhitby, ok thanks :-) |
| 13:44.50 | CM | Has anyone been able to build emotion lately? |
| 13:44.59 | mbuf | tuukkah, everything starts small |
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| 13:45.26 | CM | rwhitby: Do you speak any other languages? |
| 13:45.46 | rwhitby | CM: I built some emotion today at work ... ;-) |
| 13:46.11 | CM | rwhitby: I get this, both yesterday and today: http://rafb.net/p/lH6XGn29.html |
| 13:46.11 | mbuf | is there recommended documentation/wiki to build a .ipkg binary so it can be released at projects.openmoko.org? |
| 13:46.13 | rwhitby | CM: I speak enough of a couple of languages to be able to not be mistaken for an american when I visit other countries ;-) |
| 13:46.28 | CM | rwhitby: Hehe.. |
| 13:46.30 | XorA | rwhitby: surely the accent gives it away? |
| 13:46.41 | CM | Oy mate! |
| 13:46.48 | rwhitby | XorA: yeah, i do have that benefit too |
| 13:46.53 | mbuf | i would like the sources to be able to build for target qemu as well for ARM for OM2007.2; |
| 13:47.14 | XorA | AFAIK only the kiwis hate the ozzies, so your fairly safe abroad :-) |
| 13:47.28 | rwhitby | CM: really only about 50 words in french, and maybe 10 in a couple of other languages. |
| 13:47.33 | hrw | English and accent... |
| 13:47.40 | hrw | XorA: how is my accent? |
| 13:47.48 | XorA | for some reason everyone thinks Im South African |
| 13:47.59 | CM | Hehe |
| 13:48.15 | XorA | hrw: well it would have been weird apart from the 10,000 polish living in Edin :-) |
| 13:48.16 | rwhitby | XorA: the kiwi-aussie thing is a friendly rivalry, not a hatred. |
| 13:48.28 | CM | aj hav a sviidisch accent.. :( |
| 13:48.40 | XorA | rwhitby: I know, used to have a Kiwi flat mate |
| 13:48.43 | tuukkah | CM, pratar du finska ?-) |
| 13:48.54 | CM | tuukkah: Ei.. ;) |
| 13:49.13 | CM | tuukkah: Bara lite, det r svrt. |
| 13:49.31 | tuukkah | CM, you probably know our finglish and finland-swedish accent :-) |
| 13:49.45 | CM | tuukkah: Sure do :D |
| 13:50.32 | CM | tuukkah: Used to have a gf in Tampere, so I've been quite a lot to finland |
| 13:51.45 | CM | XorA: Watch more Simpson episodes with grounds keeper Willie ;) |
| 13:51.53 | tuukkah | XorA, you know children go to therapy to learn that |
| 13:51.56 | CM | Scottish accents are cool |
| 13:52.13 | SpeedEvil | That's not a very good scottish accent. |
| 13:52.21 | SpeedEvil | Though I have heard worse. |
| 13:52.22 | mbuf | XorA, try to repead Craig Ferguson's accent, its cool |
| 13:52.29 | rwhitby | CM: my openmoko-feed build is up to gnome-vfs (2069 of 3575) |
| 13:53.06 | rwhitby | so I'll be able to report when I wake up. |
| 13:53.07 | CM | rwhitby: Ok. I'll see if I can figure something out with this emotion error |
| 13:53.13 | CM | :) |
| 13:53.32 | rwhitby | NOTE: package emotion-0.0.1+cvs20070819-r0: task do_compile: completed |
| 13:53.35 | rwhitby | it's past emotion |
| 13:53.41 | CM | Hmm.. |
| 13:54.28 | tuukkah | rwhitby, i think i found the place where to explain DEPENDS and RDEPENDS and BUILD_ALL_DEPS :-) linked from the front page: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Bbfile |
| 13:54.39 | rwhitby | I've got a good feeling about this build today ... finally a locked down SRCREV build. |
| 13:54.43 | rwhitby | night all |
| 13:55.15 | CM | night |
| 13:55.20 | jpcass | night |
| 13:55.32 | jpcass | <funny saying that in the middle of the day> |
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| 13:56.57 | CM | jpcass: ~ugt ;) |
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| 13:57.41 | XorA | mbuf: Im betting after last night, Parisians can all sing Flower of Scotland in true Scottish accent :-) |
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| 14:01.06 | webar7 | any one see the news about that terranet mobile technology (mesh peer to peer using handsets) |
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| 14:02.20 | webar7 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:02.39 | webar7 | I told my colleagues that opejnmoko could do that ... :-) |
| 14:02.45 | webar7 | likely |
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| 14:04.49 | hrw | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/09/13/openmoko-20072-testing/ |
| 14:05.05 | hrw | worth reading test of OM 2007.2 |
| 14:06.10 | baird | webar7: I would think everyone who wanted WiFi in the Moko was anticipating something like that... |
| 14:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 14:06.31 | CM | hrw: Nice writeup :) |
| 14:06.43 | tuukkah | people might find this interesting: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/DirectoryStructure |
| 14:09.09 | hrw | CM: next part probably in October |
| 14:10.50 | wibbit | hrw: Is this your review? |
| 14:11.28 | hrw | wibbit: yes |
| 14:12.20 | wibbit | hrw: quite nice |
| 14:14.46 | DukeOfURL | hrw: I just came on--would you report the URL? |
| 14:16.21 | DukeOfURL | s/report/repost/ |
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| 14:16.28 | wibbit | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/09/13/openmoko-20072-testing/ |
| 14:17.03 | DukeOfURL | thx |
| 14:19.48 | CM | hrw: Btw, why not a full post rss feed? Is that a feedburner setting or something? |
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| 14:25.40 | hrw | CM: I do not have time to check how to tell Wordpress to make short ver for homepage and full for rss |
| 14:26.50 | tuukkah | could anyone with OpenEmbedded username help with their wiki? i'm not able to create an account or anonymously do some edits i need to do |
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| 14:49.16 | CM | tuukkah: Ask around in #oe. The wiki surely needs updates |
| 14:49.42 | tuukkah | i'll do that |
| 14:49.43 | XorA | tuukkah: AFAIK OE wiki shouldnt need a login |
| 14:50.24 | tuukkah | XorA, there's some problem with anonymous editing, and also i'd need to create new pages |
| 14:51.07 | CM | tuukkah: Just preview first |
| 14:51.29 | CM | I just edited http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/DirectoryStructure , adding a "your" to the text |
| 14:51.29 | tuukkah | CM, it said something like "someone else changed the page already" |
| 14:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 14:51.52 | tuukkah | let's continue on #oe ok? |
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| 14:55.17 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:56.36 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: ping |
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| 14:57.55 | Writchie | OLPC project has their resume down to 160ms |
| 14:58.09 | wibbit | Writchie: yowsers |
| 14:58.44 | sandos | Writchie: nice! :) |
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| 15:19.43 | zecke | re |
| 15:22.43 | mbuf | the bitbake method can be used to build a .ipkg to run on the target as well to run it on qemu? |
| 15:25.55 | polz | mbuf: qemu is supposed to be practically identical to the target |
| 15:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 15:26.45 | mbuf | polz, so it understands an ARM binary .ipkg and runs it? |
| 15:27.30 | polz | if it runs entire flash images, why wouldn't it run an .ipkg ? |
| 15:27.49 | polz | you just have to get it onto the running emulator |
| 15:28.03 | mbuf | polz, ok, thanks |
| 15:28.06 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:31.33 | *** join/#openmoko firewire (n=firewire@210.212.194.12) |
| 15:34.30 | *** join/#openmoko expose (n=nobody@82.139.196.236) |
| 15:34.33 | expose | hi |
| 15:43.24 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-119.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:47.30 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_ (n=Pupeno@193.120.148.177) |
| 15:47.37 | SpeedEvil | Interesting. Recommended - todays material world on speech synthesis. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/thematerialworld.shtml |
| 15:47.43 | SpeedEvil | (won't be up yet |
| 15:48.17 | SpeedEvil | Including how latest modeling is done, and the revelation that you can put electrodes on each side of the vocal cords, and pick up the excitation of them. |
| 15:48.31 | SpeedEvil | Which could be fun. |
| 15:51.05 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@78.16.100.8) |
| 15:52.46 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 15:53.32 | folken | hmm made two outgoing calls.. now gsmd reports: "gsmd_alive timer expired" "Modem dead!" |
| 15:53.39 | folken | (on the third call) |
| 15:54.32 | *** join/#openmoko daltona (n=daltona@cap31-4-82-234-41-108.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:55.05 | guaqua | is there a webkit browser for openmoko already in the works? |
| 15:55.19 | tuukkah | guaqua, at least you can use midori already |
| 15:55.25 | folken | quaqua its allrready running. |
| 15:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko cydork (n=vihang@unaffiliated/cydork) |
| 15:55.58 | daltona | is LaF0rge avail for discussing the libgsmd / gsmd synchronisation issues ? |
| 15:56.16 | folken | how can i restart openmoko-dialer so that it asks for the pin again? |
| 15:56.24 | daltona | sorry, Hi everybody should be first ... |
| 15:57.11 | daltona | folken, the pin will be asked by the sim card only for the first power up. if you want it to ask it again, you must power cycle the modem. |
| 15:57.21 | tuukkah | folken, guaqua, of course midori isn't the openmoko-specific one planned on the Web Browser page |
| 15:58.03 | guaqua | midori seems to be spending a lot of screen estate for just displaying a static menu |
| 15:58.09 | guaqua | i.e. poor gui |
| 15:58.09 | folken | daltona: but shouldn't gsmd tell dbus.. yoh! i need pin again. And next time dialer starts: "Enter pin" |
| 15:58.50 | daltona | the pin would be needed only if the sim card has lost power then aplied power again. |
| 15:59.11 | daltona | while the SIM is powered and PIN entered once, it will not ask it again. |
| 15:59.24 | folken | daltona: 17:53 < folken> hmm made two outgoing calls.. now gsmd reports: "gsmd_alive timer expired" "Modem dead!" |
| 15:59.38 | folken | 17:53 < folken> (on the third call) |
| 16:00.04 | daltona | folken, that is a well known issue in gsmd. |
| 16:00.50 | daltona | sometimes the modem is on a state where it can not answer to a kind of keep-alive command, and gsmd considers that the modem is dead, when actually it's not dead |
| 16:01.11 | folken | daltona: hmm i just hung up on a call. |
| 16:01.42 | daltona | I feel that that keep alive command is sometimes sent whan the modem is not in a 'good' state to answer it. |
| 16:02.51 | jpcass | anyone's build hanging on trying to download openmoko-standard-2 theme ? [http://pastebin.ca/695885] |
| 16:03.20 | tuukkah | jpcass, have you updated the bb files recently? |
| 16:03.21 | Writchie | jpcass: mine is hanging on libgsmd0 version |
| 16:03.51 | jpcass | updated bb files with 'make update' ? yes |
| 16:05.55 | jpcass | packages/openmoko2/openmoko-theme-standard2_svn.bb has a wierd SRC_URI : |
| 16:06.22 | notserpe | some dude sitting next to me has an iphone which is interesting since I'm in canada |
| 16:06.24 | jpcass | its svn://svn.....;proto=http:// (is that normal?) |
| 16:07.36 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@78.16.100.8) |
| 16:07.44 | notserpe | wonder if he'll lend it to me to put openmoko on it. |
| 16:08.31 | jpcass | and for some reason its trying to fetch a .tar.gz from downloads.openmoko.org which is not mentioned in the .bb file |
| 16:10.16 | *** join/#openmoko khaoohs (n=khaoohs@74-129-4-11.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 16:11.49 | *** part/#openmoko expose (n=nobody@82.139.196.236) |
| 16:12.07 | *** join/#openmoko daltona (n=daltona@cap31-4-82-234-41-108.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:12.36 | jpcass | OK its failing on an attempt to svn co the files from http://svn.openmoko.org |
| 16:13.16 | jpcass | the reason its failing is because it has -r 1 specified in svn co, if I remove that, I can svn co the stuff... |
| 16:14.08 | jpcass | anyone know why it would use -r 1 ??? |
| 16:15.17 | jpcass | why would bitbake svn fetcher use -r 1? i guess there is a variable being set somewhere? |
| 16:16.37 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f049170038.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:18.27 | jpcass | anyone know what variables affect the bitbake svn fetcher code? specifically revision!! |
| 16:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 16:22.28 | *** join/#openmoko daltona_ (n=daltona@cap31-4-82-234-41-108.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:22.57 | *** join/#openmoko alech (n=alech@IP-213188106106.static.heagmedianet.de) |
| 16:23.18 | alech | hi, any idea why I can't mount /media/card ("special device /dev/mmcblk0p1 does not exit")? |
| 16:23.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2965 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer-main.c src/moko-dialer-panel.c): |
| 16:23.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/dialer-main.c: (main): Delay gtk+/mokostock initialisation unless really required |
| 16:23.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_class_init): Remove some extra debug messages |
| 16:26.44 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2) |
| 16:26.50 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.202) |
| 16:27.42 | jpcass | im seeing the same problem with openmoko-terminal2, trying svn co -r 1 ... |
| 16:29.29 | *** join/#openmoko daltona__ (n=daltona@cap31-4-82-234-41-108.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:30.48 | *** join/#openmoko henla464 (n=henla464@c-5863e455.019-357-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 16:30.59 | *** join/#openmoko Tenso (n=root@32.151.138.163) |
| 16:31.18 | notserpe | http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image425bq6.jpg |
| 16:32.10 | *** join/#openmoko Jenny-Italy (n=n@85.94.112.231) |
| 16:32.43 | *** join/#openmoko daltona__ (n=daltona@cap31-4-82-234-41-108.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:33.32 | jpcass | ok, there is a variable called SVNREV used in make openmoko .bb files which is defaulting to 1 ;-( |
| 16:34.13 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.206.53) |
| 16:34.50 | *** join/#openmoko Trevelyan` (n=OO6@unaffiliated/trevelyan) |
| 16:34.52 | Writchie | jpcass: I think this is part of the changes to rev based build |
| 16:34.53 | jpcass | it derives from SRCREV .... |
| 16:35.13 | Writchie | i think was this was completed some hours ago. |
| 16:35.27 | CM | Yes, especially that 1 thing |
| 16:35.49 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2485.bb.online.no) |
| 16:35.53 | jpcass | whic is set in classes/patch.bbclass --> srcrev = bb.data.getVar('SRCREV', d, 1) |
| 16:36.08 | CM | jpcass: Before when I had a problem with qemu I did a PREFERRED_VERSION_qemu-native = "0.9.0+cvs20070701" |
| 16:36.09 | jpcass | you think its been sorted? i should try updating again |
| 16:36.11 | Writchie | hopefully this change when completed will stop the nonsense of changing the tires with the car rolling down the road |
| 16:36.46 | Writchie | a simple update isn't doing it for me. |
| 16:37.10 | Writchie | unfortunately, I think its going to be necessasry to rebuild it all |
| 16:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-214-117.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:37.30 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@ip228.cab30.mus.starman.ee) |
| 16:38.12 | jpcass | ive been doing that all day! |
| 16:38.40 | Writchie | jpcass: my build is handling on wrong version for libgsm but the built version is correct so the problem is somewhere else. |
| 16:38.53 | Writchie | jpcass: i've been rebuilding for days and days |
| 16:39.04 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 16:39.04 | jpcass | [ and nights and nights ] |
| 16:39.07 | Writchie | i can catch it right only once per week |
| 16:39.29 | *** join/#openmoko xL0GiC (n=davs@134.117.254.250) |
| 16:39.33 | Writchie | but of course, the version I catch is almost broken |
| 16:39.37 | Lynet | So, sounds like the life of an openmoko dev isn't too dissimilar to that of gentoo users. |
| 16:40.21 | jpcass | ok i edited classes/openmoko2.bbclass and made SVNREV = "rHEAD" ... looks like its working (no fail yet...) |
| 16:40.23 | Writchie | its all management issues or lack thereof that go with the territory. |
| 16:40.28 | Writchie | you can't fire volunteers |
| 16:41.23 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f049170038.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:42.31 | *** join/#openmoko cndougla (n=cndougla@cpe-75-185-70-183.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 16:42.32 | *** join/#openmoko Tenso (n=root@32.151.16.9) |
| 16:42.32 | tuukkah | wow, sound in openmoko-mediaplayer |
| 16:42.56 | cndougla | I just built openmoko, but can't seem to run any apps when I click on them |
| 16:43.00 | cndougla | how can I get to a terminal |
| 16:43.05 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f048016237.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:43.25 | tuukkah | cndougla, clicking is difficult |
| 16:43.28 | thos | cndougla, ssh? |
| 16:43.46 | cndougla | ah, should be more precise, using make run-qemu |
| 16:43.51 | cndougla | so within qemu |
| 16:43.52 | jpcass | no, teminal2 still tries for -r 1 and fails... |
| 16:43.58 | thos | cndougla, still should be able to ssh? |
| 16:44.04 | cndougla | to what address? |
| 16:44.05 | aloril | cndougla: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 16:45.51 | *** join/#openmoko daltona (n=daltona@cap31-4-82-234-41-108.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:46.06 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek (n=b@ams122.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 16:46.32 | jpcass | also added rev=HEAD to the default SRC_URI provided in classes/openmoko2.bbclass - trying again... |
| 16:46.58 | cndougla | thos: where would I ssh to? |
| 16:47.18 | cndougla | there's no wifi on the gta01, which is what the default makefiles build for |
| 16:47.36 | cndougla | and no real bluetooth under qemu |
| 16:48.12 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D83F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:48.42 | jpcass | cndougla - connect the neo to your pc with the usb cable and use usbnet |
| 16:48.57 | cndougla | jpcass, I'm running through qemu |
| 16:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko Tenso (n=root@32.151.27.78) |
| 16:49.43 | jpcass | cndougla: sorry. i think there's a way to emulate this usb connection, never done it myself but i vaguely remember info on the wiki... |
| 16:49.45 | *** join/#openmoko Tenso (n=root@32.151.27.78) |
| 16:50.01 | cndougla | been searching some, but not coming up with anything |
| 16:50.10 | cndougla | is there no easy way to bring up the console on this? |
| 16:50.30 | polz | start a terminal :P |
| 16:51.06 | cndougla | but I can't start a terminal |
| 16:51.17 | cndougla | this is like an endless look |
| 16:51.19 | cndougla | ;oop |
| 16:51.21 | cndougla | ... |
| 16:52.26 | Lynet | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU , specifically #Setting_up_USB_connection and #Connecting_to_the_serial_port.2FCommunicating_with_u-boot |
| 16:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:52.48 | PBeck | re |
| 16:53.03 | cndougla | how did I miss that... |
| 16:53.04 | cndougla | thanks |
| 16:53.26 | *** part/#openmoko xL0GiC (n=davs@134.117.254.250) |
| 16:53.38 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z591b.z.pppool.de) |
| 16:54.50 | edistar | Can someone help me? I'm still trying to build the openmoko-devel-image for x86.... And I have a new error now... http://nopaste.org/p/avAzknjAd |
| 16:54.57 | Lynet | cndougla: Once you have USB up and running, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking |
| 16:55.05 | cndougla | ok |
| 16:56.30 | zdanek | does the latest OM builds allow successful GPRS connection? |
| 16:56.42 | zdanek | I never had one |
| 16:58.00 | edistar | I don't have any experience with svns, can someone help me with the error? http://nopaste.org/p/avAzknjAd |
| 16:58.31 | SpeedEvil | I've done it with 2007.1 - but just manually |
| 17:01.07 | *** join/#openmoko neocoretech (n=neocoret@p57A544E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:01.37 | zdanek | SpeedEvil, I wrote pppd script but I had some errors |
| 17:01.59 | zdanek | not with AT commands but with syncing to serial port |
| 17:02.11 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 17:02.47 | Writchie | zdanek: did you start from scratch or after gsmd |
| 17:04.07 | *** join/#openmoko neocoretech_ (n=neocoret@p57A544E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:04.31 | zdanek | what do you mean? |
| 17:05.50 | zdanek | "after gsmd"? |
| 17:06.10 | *** join/#openmoko shahn_ (n=shahn@i59F72205.versanet.de) |
| 17:06.21 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:06.35 | Writchie | did gsm initialize the modem, if it did there are unsolicited reports coming back |
| 17:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@m530e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 17:09.31 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 17:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko sunix (n=sunix@sunix.org) |
| 17:09.56 | shahn_ | Hi |
| 17:10.00 | sunix | hi |
| 17:10.10 | shahn_ | i tried to compile an image with mokomakefile |
| 17:10.19 | shahn_ | for xephyr following the wiki |
| 17:10.35 | shahn_ | SRCDATE_eds-dbus = "now" <-- this seems to be wrong |
| 17:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko alech (n=alech@IP-213188106106.static.heagmedianet.de) |
| 17:11.07 | shahn_ | make can't wget "http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/trunk_svn.o-hand.com_.repos.eds-dbus__now.tar.gz" |
| 17:11.11 | CM | yes, they are changing the way they handle revisions in openembedded right now |
| 17:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:11.36 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 17:11.37 | alech | hi, wasn't there an easy way to change the screen to 640x480 instead of 480x640 in the newer builds? anyone care to tell me what it is ...? |
| 17:11.41 | shahn_ | so should i just pick the latest? |
| 17:12.08 | CM | What is the default value? |
| 17:12.22 | shahn_ | err... |
| 17:12.43 | CM | Try building without that setting |
| 17:12.44 | CM | It's wrong |
| 17:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko Moriarty_ (n=jv@adsl-18-20-133.mco.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:13.02 | shahn_ | ok thanks |
| 17:13.11 | zdanek | Writche: it's hard to answer your question, I wrote pppd scripts as said on wiki |
| 17:13.38 | zdanek | launched it with and without gsmd |
| 17:14.53 | zdanek | Writche: I tell you what error I had in the moment |
| 17:15.00 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2485.bb.online.no) |
| 17:15.32 | zdanek | I launched pppd call gprs |
| 17:15.43 | zdanek | and got [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0x309ee493> <pcomp> <accomp>] |
| 17:15.43 | zdanek | > |
| 17:15.45 | sunix | so many people in this chan .... just want to know if someone managed to connect to a phone network from the gui. I used to manage to register to the network and get the gui to enter pin code but since last month and lots of images behind ... i still can't do it anymore. Is it a known issue ? am i the only one ? |
| 17:16.15 | polz | sunix: did you restart gsmd in your matchbox session ? |
| 17:16.18 | zdanek | sunix: did you add gsmd restart in mathcbox |
| 17:16.20 | zdanek | eheh |
| 17:16.31 | sunix | restart ? :) |
| 17:16.37 | zdanek | eh |
| 17:16.40 | sunix | from the gui ? |
| 17:16.41 | zdanek | yep |
| 17:16.52 | zdanek | when you restart gsmd all goes well |
| 17:17.11 | zdanek | add /etc/init.d/gsmd stop |
| 17:17.13 | sunix | is that something like "start gsm antena" ? |
| 17:17.14 | sunix | or |
| 17:17.15 | zdanek | and ... start |
| 17:17.16 | sunix | ok |
| 17:17.19 | sunix | i'll try |
| 17:17.20 | sunix | :) |
| 17:17.26 | zdanek | in /etc/matchbox/session |
| 17:17.29 | zdanek | before dialer |
| 17:17.42 | zdanek | no it isn't |
| 17:17.59 | sunix | yep ok ... wait a sec :) booting |
| 17:17.59 | zdanek | it's something like local workaround for gsdm errors |
| 17:18.08 | zdanek | but |
| 17:18.27 | zdanek | it should hang if you didn't patch gsmd script :D |
| 17:18.46 | sunix | what do you mean by ... "hang" :p |
| 17:19.02 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__9 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-a0c09cae85e95533) |
| 17:19.47 | zdanek | if it doesn't - don't ask :) |
| 17:20.07 | sunix | i'm trying :) |
| 17:20.27 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 17:23.08 | zdanek | did it start? |
| 17:23.20 | sunix | root@fic-gta01:~$ /etc/init.d/gsmd stop |
| 17:23.20 | sunix | Stopping GSM daemon: stopped /usr/sbin/gsmd (pid 1137). |
| 17:23.20 | sunix | gsmd. |
| 17:23.20 | sunix | root@fic-gta01:~$ /etc/init.d/gsmd start |
| 17:23.37 | sunix | lol |
| 17:23.39 | tuukkah | alech, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Functions_menu |
| 17:23.50 | sunix | and ... nothing ... |
| 17:23.58 | zdanek | nothing -what? |
| 17:24.05 | zdanek | didn't blow? |
| 17:24.21 | sunix | i thing my moko is dead :p |
| 17:24.24 | sunix | think |
| 17:25.07 | sunix | may be the "hang" you were talking about |
| 17:25.53 | zdanek | yep |
| 17:26.13 | zdanek | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 17:26.21 | *** join/#openmoko mib_force (i=mib_forc@2001:1638:17a5:0:0:0:0:20) |
| 17:26.24 | zdanek | solution is at the bottom |
| 17:26.30 | sunix | zdanek: thx :) going to dig that :) |
| 17:26.47 | zdanek | and then add restart lines in matchbox session |
| 17:26.56 | sunix | :) |
| 17:27.26 | xaid|work | I have a question regarding security. are we always going to run with root privileges? or will this change by the GTA02 release? |
| 17:27.38 | SpeedEvil | Not GTA02 prolly |
| 17:27.46 | SpeedEvil | but maybe by mass market time |
| 17:27.54 | SpeedEvil | certainly, rather |
| 17:28.53 | xaid|work | SpeedEvil: thanks. it'd be a bit dangerous to mistype typing at the terminal when you're on the go and see the filesystem wiped clean :) |
| 17:29.16 | Writchie | xaid: hopefully there will be some discussion on security model and approach instead of implement first design later |
| 17:29.33 | *** join/#openmoko Casten (n=casten@65.118.123.209) |
| 17:30.46 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: did you catch my comment ealier on OLPC guys now having resume < 160ms |
| 17:32.06 | Casten | Greetings #OpenMoko |
| 17:32.13 | *** part/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@orion.thos.me.uk) |
| 17:32.35 | zdanek | xaid: I did that yesterday - cleaned whole filesystem |
| 17:32.54 | Casten | I was wondering if anyone had any problems building uicmoc. |
| 17:33.15 | zdanek | I ran gllin with chroot and had mounted whole fs to subdirectory |
| 17:33.28 | zdanek | then forgot to unmount before deleting dir |
| 17:33.31 | zdanek | poof! |
| 17:33.49 | xaid|work | Writchie: this would be ideal. im surprised there isn't much about this on the wiki. |
| 17:34.39 | xaid|work | zdanek: this would be bad if it had your address book...etc. a backup solution for the basic PIM applications would be a life saver |
| 17:35.49 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07E33C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:36.05 | Writchie | there was little discussion when i asked on the list - its low priority - but there is some discussion in PM and should be a wiki entry soon to discuss possible approaches |
| 17:36.39 | Casten | Does anyone have any suggestions about troubleshooting uimoc build problems? |
| 17:36.40 | aloril | Casten: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:37.00 | *** join/#openmoko alech_ (n=alech@IP-213188106106.static.heagmedianet.de) |
| 17:37.11 | Casten | Thanks autotrigger |
| 17:37.26 | Writchie | Casten: this was a problem a few back. are you on ubuntu 7.04 |
| 17:37.27 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky_ (n=kuyky@a81-84-127-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 17:37.29 | alech_ | hi, any way to simulate a right click? I'd really like to play some scummvm, but apparently the game needs right clicks a lot ... |
| 17:38.04 | Casten | yes, I'm running FF |
| 17:38.30 | Casten | Is there a better distro to use? I'll happily change. |
| 17:38.55 | Casten | My goal is fewest problems, I'm not tied to any distro/ver. |
| 17:39.07 | Writchie | when this problem appeared before it was solved by added a symlink - for libXext.so IIRC |
| 17:39.08 | CM | Casten: 32-bit debian |
| 17:39.28 | CM | I'm on 64-bit gentoo, and I run into issues all the time :D |
| 17:39.54 | Writchie | twice the bits 4 times the pain |
| 17:39.56 | Casten | Yeah, I'm using 32bit Ubuntu 7.04 |
| 17:40.06 | tuukkah | OpenMoko is based on Debian anyway :-) |
| 17:40.30 | CM | Casten: And about your problem: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=747 |
| 17:40.33 | Casten | ok, so symlink for libXest.so |
| 17:41.16 | Casten | God this IRC client is bad.. no copy/paste |
| 17:41.34 | Casten | hmm, disregard |
| 17:41.41 | florian | Casten: iPhone? ;) |
| 17:42.24 | Lynet | what, they can install software on the iPhone now? ;-p |
| 17:43.29 | Casten | actually, the problem I am having doesn't look like 747's description |
| 17:43.44 | zdanek | guys! I just ran ipkg upgrade which rewrties gsmd script and reenables bug #788 |
| 17:43.48 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2485.bb.online.no) |
| 17:43.53 | zdanek | but that's not important |
| 17:44.07 | zdanek | while doing upgrade my neo rang |
| 17:44.09 | Casten | It seems to not be recognizing some trailing command options |
| 17:44.12 | Casten | .obj/release-static-emb-x86/qfsfileengine_iterator_unix.o -lz -ldl |
| 17:44.12 | Casten | | /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz |
| 17:44.31 | zdanek | and I was chatting with my wife while neo hung because of gsmd restart |
| 17:44.57 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@a81-84-127-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 17:45.06 | zdanek | but phone call survived |
| 17:45.17 | hhf423 | zdanek: thats fun :-) |
| 17:45.22 | zdanek | now my wife end call and neo is dead with dialer's 'talking' message |
| 17:45.28 | zdanek | it freezed |
| 17:45.40 | zdanek | very lol |
| 17:46.27 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-239-148.44-151.net24.it) |
| 17:46.32 | Casten | Anyone have any ideas about the problematic -lz option? Is this something worthy af posting to openmoko-devel? |
| 17:46.51 | fgau | Casten: install zlib |
| 17:46.57 | blindcoder | what's problematic about -lz? |
| 17:47.05 | Casten | .obj/release-static-emb-x86/qfsfileengine_iterator_unix.o -lz -ldl |
| 17:47.05 | Casten | | /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz |
| 17:47.50 | XorA|gone | install zlib-dev/zlib-devel depending if you deb or rpm based |
| 17:48.00 | Casten | tyvm, trying |
| 17:48.24 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-119.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:50.31 | sunix | zdanek: :) |
| 17:50.41 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178221042.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:52.10 | sunix | zdanek: thank you i managed to have the dialer asking for my pin code :D |
| 17:52.22 | sunix | going to lunch :) see you later guys :) |
| 17:52.33 | sunix | (-lunch + dinner) |
| 17:52.37 | Casten | bye sun |
| 17:52.41 | sunix | :) |
| 17:53.00 | *** part/#openmoko sunix (n=sunix@sunix.org) |
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| 18:15.37 | *** join/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:15.40 | thomasg | mailinglist broken again? |
| 18:15.49 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreir1 (n=ruimorei@87-196-122-94.net.novis.pt) |
| 18:19.42 | *** join/#openmoko faern (n=faern@faern.olf.sgsnet.se) |
| 18:22.25 | Casten | fgau: looks like that did it, thank you |
| 18:23.26 | fgau | Casten: enjoy the build process :) |
| 18:24.07 | Casten | yes, it seems lengthy. Hopefully full rebuilds aren't required often |
| 18:24.50 | *** join/#openmoko shahn__ (n=shahn@i59F73959.versanet.de) |
| 18:25.28 | fgau | on my laptop 6 hours, duo core |
| 18:25.57 | Casten | Is fetching the process of getting the file from svn? |
| 18:26.19 | Casten | I'm getting a fetch failure, when that happens should I just retry? |
| 18:27.36 | Casten | Had I known it was so slow, I would have gotten a faster laptop |
| 18:28.33 | fgau | Casten: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#Tips |
| 18:28.36 | xaid|work | can't you use distcc and compile on multiple machines? :) |
| 18:28.48 | Lynet | I think my initial build has beengoing for 12 hours now, so don't complain. ;-) |
| 18:29.14 | fgau | try PARALLEL_MAKE and BB_NUMBER_THREADS |
| 18:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 18:30.29 | Casten | I'll do that, good tip. |
| 18:33.58 | *** join/#openmoko tonyg (n=tonyg@82.152.221.161) |
| 18:34.05 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 18:34.11 | polz | is this working for anyone here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course ? |
| 18:34.54 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 18:35.58 | zdanek | I just did small car route to my grandma with GPS pos storring |
| 18:36.01 | zdanek | wanna see? |
| 18:36.04 | zdanek | http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1189708426-06913-83.17.74.122.html |
| 18:36.18 | zdanek | started from right-bottom |
| 18:36.37 | cw666 | zdanek: slick, watch out for wolves on the way to see her though |
| 18:36.46 | zdanek | then to north and returned after receiving delicious dinner :D |
| 18:36.46 | polz | zdanek: how did you get the data from the chip ? |
| 18:37.07 | hhf423 | zdanek: with Neo GPS? |
| 18:37.11 | zdanek | yep |
| 18:37.18 | zdanek | I'm talking about that |
| 18:37.21 | hhf423 | oh, how did you do that? |
| 18:37.25 | polz | is there a daemon available for the new distro ? |
| 18:37.54 | polz | zdanek: hooow ? :) |
| 18:38.03 | zdanek | nope nope |
| 18:38.07 | zdanek | via gllin |
| 18:38.09 | zdanek | with chroot |
| 18:38.12 | zdanek | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin |
| 18:38.37 | cw666 | can you download gllin even? |
| 18:38.47 | hhf423 | zdanek: did that little bit of documentation work for you? |
| 18:38.54 | zdanek | nope |
| 18:39.17 | zdanek | I got whole scripts from my colleague which found it on the net |
| 18:39.18 | zdanek | wait |
| 18:39.49 | cw666 | i figured someone somewhere put the binary up, but ive not really tried hard to find it |
| 18:40.40 | zdanek | it's a mix with that link above (to run gllin OABI) |
| 18:40.43 | zdanek | and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_scripts |
| 18:40.45 | hhf423 | I did search a bit, but did not find it. did not spend much time on it though because the documentation did not look like it would be easy to use |
| 18:40.49 | zdanek | to collect nmea frames |
| 18:41.32 | hhf423 | zdanek: so that worked for you? |
| 18:41.32 | zdanek | I will upload whole chroot package on my OM page soon |
| 18:41.43 | zdanek | but I can't upload it with gllin |
| 18:41.57 | cw666 | i think gllin is what people are mostly after |
| 18:42.20 | zdanek | |\/|ail me |
| 18:42.45 | zdanek | at bartek(DOT)zdanowski(ATTT) gmail(DOT)c0m |
| 18:43.23 | zdanek | hhf423: yes it worked |
| 18:43.28 | zdanek | as you see |
| 18:43.41 | zdanek | on that map-page |
| 18:43.47 | cw666 | zdanek: btw, how did you make that plot? |
| 18:43.57 | cw666 | is there an interface to feed NMEA goop into some google maps machup? |
| 18:44.00 | cw666 | mashup |
| 18:45.52 | hhf423 | can google earth plus not read NMEA? |
| 18:46.32 | zdanek | nope |
| 18:46.37 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: did you not say that there would be a GPS related announcement soon |
| 18:46.37 | zdanek | you have to use GPSBABEL |
| 18:46.41 | zdanek | outstanding soft |
| 18:46.54 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: yes |
| 18:46.56 | zdanek | and put it into gpsvisualizer.com form |
| 18:47.26 | zdanek | I will put an article on my Neo blog |
| 18:47.34 | zdanek | I'll do it right now |
| 18:50.01 | xaid|work | Is anyone working on a color-blind friendly theme yet? since its Gtk im pretty sure I can make something up when the mass market release is near, but I was curious if anyone has started working on different color themees in general. |
| 18:50.02 | hhf423 | nice |
| 18:50.39 | hhf423 | I was in Warshaw once, a while ago |
| 18:51.22 | hhf423 | still have polish money somewhere. I hope I can spend it before you guys join the euro :-) |
| 18:52.01 | zdanek | I hope we will get euro soon :) |
| 18:52.06 | hhf423 | xaid|work: did not hear nothing about a colorblind theme |
| 18:52.20 | zdanek | some mails went out... |
| 18:52.38 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: you still in good hope for that? not loosing faith yet? |
| 18:52.48 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko don-o (n=donp@206.163.122.98) |
| 18:54.18 | xaid|work | hhf423: I can help reviewing themes if someone needs the opinion of a color blind person :) |
| 18:54.44 | hhf423 | xaid|work: you should put that into the wiki somewhere .-) |
| 18:55.17 | *** join/#openmoko sunix (n=sunix@sunix.org) |
| 18:55.20 | folken | woohoo my contacts work. :) |
| 18:56.07 | xaid|work | hhf423: I'll add it later today :) |
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| 18:59.13 | zdanek | hhf423 did you enjoy somehow Poland? |
| 19:01.02 | hhf423 | zdanek: I was there only short, on a business trip, but I enjoed it, yes. only the way people drive I found a bit scary |
| 19:01.14 | hhf423 | zdanek: only moscow and italy is worse :-) |
| 19:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@gprs-ggsn5-nat.mobil.telenor.no) |
| 19:01.38 | sunix | thanks to all :) i managed to make my first moko call :D |
| 19:01.54 | sunix | :D |
| 19:02.13 | hhf423 | sunix: I hope you called someone meaningfull :-) |
| 19:02.22 | mbuf | libmokoui has changed in OM2007.2 ? |
| 19:02.31 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:02.45 | sunix | i called my self :p |
| 19:02.47 | zdanek | sunix: congrats |
| 19:03.07 | zdanek | hhf423: yes, Warsaw is some kind on "wild-west" on the streets |
| 19:03.22 | zdanek | drivers are quite in-hurry |
| 19:03.38 | zdanek | I bought a car 2 months ago |
| 19:03.41 | hhf423 | you could say that :-) |
| 19:03.42 | mbuf | code earlier built with OM2007.1 builds fine with OM2007.2, but, when I run it with OM2007.2 image, I get 'cannot find libmokoui.so.0: no such file or directory' error message |
| 19:03.49 | zdanek | but now I'm not a virgin ;) |
| 19:03.54 | cjb | mbuf: different binary format |
| 19:04.09 | zdanek | It's a quick grow-up routine |
| 19:04.32 | mbuf | cjb, so how do i fix it? |
| 19:04.53 | cjb | recompile? |
| 19:05.25 | mbuf | cjb, no, i meant i recompiled the code with OM2007.2 build environment (arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi), and running it with OM2007.2 images on the phone |
| 19:07.09 | juri_ | xaid: i'm colourblind myself, and have colourblind friends. colourblind varies from person to person. |
| 19:08.44 | cjb | yeah, there are tens of colorblindness possibilities. |
| 19:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD065.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:09.17 | cjb | it's because it's a recent mutation, only humans and monkey have the different red/green receptor genes, and because it's so recent there are many ways for the genes to misalign. |
| 19:10.28 | cjb | (I hadn't realized until reading about it that only humans *aren't* colorblind, all other animals (except great apes) are. |
| 19:10.30 | cjb | ) |
| 19:12.30 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 19:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko faern (n=faern@faern.olf.sgsnet.se) |
| 19:14.23 | cw666 | cjb: it depends, some animals are monochromats, some are dichromats, some are trichomats and some are are tetrachomats (some human women might be partly this too) |
| 19:15.17 | tuukkah | cw666, yeah tetrachomat women rule :-) |
| 19:15.23 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 19:15.27 | cjb | yes, but only humans are trichromats+. |
| 19:15.53 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-6-177.38-151.net24.it) |
| 19:16.17 | tuukkah | cjb, really? i don't remember it like that |
| 19:16.47 | cjb | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichromatic_color_vision |
| 19:17.11 | tuukkah | "Some species of insects (such as honeybees) are also trichromats" |
| 19:17.47 | tuukkah | "Tetrachromacy is expected to occur in some birds, fish, amphibians, reptiles, arachnids and insects." |
| 19:18.00 | cjb | that's not RGB, though. |
| 19:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:18.27 | cjb | the red-green differentiation in gene was recently unique to monkeys, which is why only monkeys and humans have it. |
| 19:20.51 | tuukkah | ok so in other animals it's something else than RGGB |
| 19:21.41 | *** join/#openmoko faern (n=faern@faern.olf.sgsnet.se) |
| 19:22.25 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CF95C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:22.45 | cw666 | tuukkah: i sometimes wonder about my kid, she draws things in colors that look almost the same to me |
| 19:22.50 | xaid|work | juri_: you're right. but i think the common type is the red/green one, but then again, there are different degrees so you're right. there wont be a neutral theme that works for all CB people :| |
| 19:22.58 | cw666 | it's probably just because she's a girl and like all women can see colors better than men |
| 19:23.06 | cjb | tuukkah: yes, infra-red or ultraviolet |
| 19:23.10 | mbuf | is there an equivalent for libmokoui/moko-ui.h (from OM2007.1) that can be used for OM2007.2? |
| 19:23.23 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.202) |
| 19:23.46 | cw666 | i tell people who use words like mauve and turquoise that "im a guy, i only know the seven colors from the rainbow. go get me a beer" |
| 19:23.58 | cw666 | and it's six colors really |
| 19:24.04 | cw666 | indigo and purple are the same thing |
| 19:24.10 | cw666 | violet |
| 19:24.11 | cw666 | whatever |
| 19:24.44 | mbuf | the OM-2007/examples/openmoko-stylus-demo still usings libmokoui/moko-ui.h in OM2007.2 build; |
| 19:25.44 | juri_ | cw666: i'm officially blue/green colourblind, but also have problems in the browns. and i can see slightly outside the normal "red" spectrum. in some "black" paints, i see a ... mix of a different colour. |
| 19:26.11 | juri_ | i'm a mutant. :) |
| 19:26.27 | m1 | juri_: so if you weren't CB you'd be tetrachromat? :-) |
| 19:26.30 | cjb | :) |
| 19:26.41 | m1 | gah. damn irc client forgetting my nick |
| 19:27.03 | xaid|work | i have issues with the green and red. i can't differenciate between the red and orangle/yellow of the traffic lights at nighttime :) |
| 19:27.07 | juri_ | m1: something like that. :) |
| 19:27.19 | xaid|work | *orange |
| 19:27.22 | juri_ | xaid: the green lights are white to me. scary. :) |
| 19:27.25 | *** part/#openmoko sunix (n=sunix@sunix.org) |
| 19:27.51 | xaid|work | juri_: i see them a bit grayish with maybe a hint of green. im not sure if they're supposed to be dark green :D |
| 19:27.57 | cjb_ie | juri_: does that include monochromatic green LED lights? |
| 19:27.59 | aloril | heard that only 6-7 bands of color would be useful |
| 19:28.19 | juri_ | cjb: yes, it does. |
| 19:28.28 | cjb | xaid|work: that's why they put them in different boxes :) |
| 19:28.30 | cw666 | juri_: yeah, niki likes to draw on white paper with yellow, i can barely see what she's doing unless im really close but she seems to have no problems with it |
| 19:28.45 | cjb | cjb_ie: augh, nick collisipn |
| 19:28.52 | cjb | cjb_ie: get a better nick! |
| 19:29.08 | cjb_ie | cjb: this _is_ my better one :/ |
| 19:29.09 | aloril | that should allow to see in nature exact material for example |
| 19:29.19 | cjb | cjb_ie: /me disagrees |
| 19:29.58 | cjb_ie | i used to be cjb in most of my irc sessions |
| 19:30.00 | cjb | aloril: that's what I find so interesting about red-green distinction being limited to humans |
| 19:30.05 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-119.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:30.13 | cjb | there's so much of nature that only we see, and it isn't even meant for us |
| 19:30.37 | jpcass | so mokomakefile causes a svn checkout of the entire of svn.openmoko.org but how is this used? |
| 19:30.39 | xaid|work | cjb: the problem is at night, i can't see the black boxes that they are in so i can't figure out which box is actually lit :D |
| 19:30.54 | jpcass | openembedded just goes and checks out what it wants again anyway for the build? |
| 19:31.11 | aloril | cjb: hmm.. yeah, anyway more is possible with suitable goggles (though not at same time, but looking at suitable subset at the time) |
| 19:31.23 | cjb | sandos: ah. in most countries they solve that by yellow = red and yellow on at the same time |
| 19:31.25 | cjb_ie | xaid|work: in sensible countries the boxes are outlined in retroreflective rectangles |
| 19:31.27 | aloril | ie.. a bit like looking at 6-7 dimensional object using 3d viewer |
| 19:31.28 | jpcass | (and stores it in the sources as .tar.gz) |
| 19:31.32 | aloril | but for colors |
| 19:31.36 | cjb | s/sandos/xaid|work/ |
| 19:31.40 | cjb_ie | cjb: i thought that was only UK and germany |
| 19:32.09 | cjb_ie | (and only for immediately before green) |
| 19:32.37 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@3e70cc9b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:32.55 | folken | in .ch it is green yellow red (nothing in between) |
| 19:33.01 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@ip51ce0962.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:33.04 | cw666 | zdanek: did you upload the OABI chroot anywhere? |
| 19:33.20 | zdanek | i'm working on that |
| 19:33.30 | zdanek | I'm writing an article |
| 19:36.30 | jpcass | just uploaded my first home-brew kernel and rootfs, it boots it boots! |
| 19:36.48 | hhf423 | jpcass: good for you! :-) |
| 19:38.13 | xaid|work | cjb: canada doesn't do it in the province that i'm in :| i think quebec has shapes along with the traffic lights |
| 19:38.15 | jpcass | is the dialer supposed to auto register with the network, or do i need to intervene on the console? |
| 19:38.16 | zecke | mickey|zzZZzz: I wonder if OpenMoko is one of the invited mentoring organisations? |
| 19:38.55 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-119.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:39.06 | jpcass | no sign of gsmd with ps :-( |
| 19:39.12 | hhf423 | jpcass: did you change the boot parameters? did you put gsmd stop/start into matchbox/session? then it should automatically ask for pin |
| 19:39.13 | xaid|work | apt: that would make it easier to distinguish, especially for flashing red/yellow |
| 19:39.41 | jpcass | hhf423: no, where is that? |
| 19:39.46 | *** part/#openmoko ruimoreir1 (n=ruimorei@87-196-122-94.net.novis.pt) |
| 19:40.56 | *** join/#openmoko one- (n=one@adsl-215-241-187.kymp.net) |
| 19:41.14 | aloril | anyway, that is what some future NeoXXXX will do for me, arbitrary color bands |
| 19:41.14 | jpcass | i just did /etc/init.d/gsmd stop and the machine has frozen (console and X) |
| 19:41.56 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 19:41.59 | hhf423 | jpcass: removed "console=ttySAC0,115200" from bootargs_base |
| 19:42.06 | PBeck | re |
| 19:42.09 | hhf423 | jpcass: in uboot |
| 19:42.26 | Writchie | how many plp have wasted more than 10 times as much time on the build system as on doing any real development? |
| 19:42.27 | hhf423 | jpcass: yes, thats a classic now |
| 19:42.42 | hhf423 | bug 744 sor something |
| 19:43.06 | polz | Writchie: count me. |
| 19:43.37 | Writchie | i'm not counting testing prebuild images as development |
| 19:44.00 | jpcass | Writchie: >10 - have you read this? http://www.openembedded.org/%7Ekoen/usermanual.pdf its very nelpful |
| 19:45.49 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484F420.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:46.28 | anrp | what, there was a manual? |
| 19:46.35 | anrp | ...i.e. advertise it |
| 19:47.39 | hhf423 | zdanek: when I do ./gllin -low 5 I get "not found" |
| 19:47.50 | jpcass | its not complete but the bits that are there are very good. |
| 19:47.55 | polz | I wish I knew why the App. devel. crash course isn't working for me |
| 19:48.09 | *** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@achn-4db4ef77.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 19:48.24 | jpcass | hhf423: thanks I will check that out! |
| 19:48.33 | polz | if I link build/conf/local.conf, bitbake finds my helloworld.bb. If I don't, it doesn't |
| 19:48.45 | Writchie | jpcass: why should everyone wanted to development have to debug the bb files for 4000 packages |
| 19:49.11 | jpcass | amen brother |
| 19:49.46 | Writchie | a core developer makes a two line patch to libgsm and the wheels come off the build ! |
| 19:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07E33C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:50.17 | polz | how do I get bitbake to use the site.conf in local instead of the one in build ? |
| 19:50.41 | polz | if I'm using mokomakefile ? |
| 19:51.06 | Writchie | polz: I think you just put your own there |
| 19:51.23 | Writchie | mokomakefile writes a default one to start with |
| 19:51.23 | zdanek | okay, article ready |
| 19:51.27 | zdanek | http://www.openmoko.org.pl/node/55 |
| 19:51.36 | zdanek | making gllin work on 2007.2 |
| 19:52.03 | Writchie | polz: but mokomakefile does not change it when its defaults change |
| 19:52.12 | Writchie | from example for rm_work |
| 19:54.53 | zween | hi all. can someone tell me what bootargs_base should be? I think I messed it up when I tried to remove the "console"-part. |
| 19:55.39 | *** part/#openmoko avoine (n=avoine@modemcable003.251-59-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:55.45 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 19:56.21 | jpcass | mine (original) reads: rootfstype=jffs2 root=/dev/mtdblock4 console=ttySAC0,115200 console=tty0 loglevel=8 |
| 19:56.23 | zdanek | as for people who will use chroot package - please unmount all chroot directories before deleting whole dir structure - or you will delete root fs as I accidently did... |
| 19:56.35 | jpcass | whats the syntax for setenv anyone? |
| 19:56.42 | zween | jpcass: thanks! |
| 19:56.56 | zween | jpcass: I ll try that. |
| 19:58.12 | zdanek | is there available port of MC on OpenMoko? |
| 19:58.43 | CM | midnight comander? |
| 19:59.09 | zdanek | CM yep |
| 19:59.12 | cw666 | zdanek: thanks, let me try it out ... for some reason GPS doesn't seem to work inside even near a window so ill prob go for a walk |
| 19:59.33 | zdanek | did you run gllin already? |
| 19:59.47 | CM | zdanek: I tried to search for it in oe, but didn't find it |
| 19:59.55 | zdanek | pity |
| 20:00.01 | cw666 | zdanek: satscan doesnt work indoors |
| 20:00.10 | cw666 | that's the only test code ive tried do far |
| 20:00.46 | zdanek | yes, I've heard about this program, where did you get it from? |
| 20:01.26 | cw666 | http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/satscan/ |
| 20:01.45 | CM | zdanek: mc_4.6.0.bb is there |
| 20:02.06 | zdanek | CM sorry, where? |
| 20:02.08 | CM | zdanek: Using the makefile? |
| 20:02.28 | zdanek | nope |
| 20:02.48 | CM | Ok, then just bitbake mc or? |
| 20:02.54 | zdanek | I don't even have dev environment set up |
| 20:03.10 | CM | Ah, ok |
| 20:03.15 | CM | Anyway, it's there |
| 20:03.16 | CM | mc |
| 20:03.19 | zdanek | I have no time for that :((( but I'll try to set it up in next weeks |
| 20:03.25 | CM | oe includes a lot :) |
| 20:03.33 | jpcass | it might take that long ;-) |
| 20:03.40 | CM | jpcass: Hehe |
| 20:03.52 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 20:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:04.07 | zdanek | that's why I waste my time with articles for people how to use neo |
| 20:04.27 | zdanek | to spread the idea of OM |
| 20:04.40 | zdanek | but I'd like to write some apps |
| 20:05.17 | zdanek | CM is there a way to prepare a mc package for me (and others)? |
| 20:05.40 | CM | zdanek: Sure, just build the ipkg |
| 20:05.44 | CM | I'm building right now |
| 20:07.17 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 20:08.08 | jpcass | i also built it for fun ipk is 260K |
| 20:09.01 | *** join/#openmoko Tenso (n=root@32.168.103.187) |
| 20:10.45 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:11.34 | jpcass | zdanek: you can download it from http://www.johnkerry.plus.com/mc_4.6.1-r2_armv4t.ipk |
| 20:11.52 | jpcass | (untested!) |
| 20:12.21 | *** join/#openmoko grasu (n=christia@e181119034.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:12.32 | CM | jpcass: You beat me to it :-) |
| 20:13.10 | jpcass | CM: eager to try out my only recently working build system ;-) |
| 20:13.38 | jpcass | still cant dial anywhere though... |
| 20:13.42 | CM | Me neither |
| 20:13.51 | CM | I've only ever been able to call 3 times |
| 20:14.09 | CM | Was with scaredycats image from september 3rd |
| 20:14.10 | zdanek | jpcass: thank you |
| 20:14.10 | jpcass | about the same for me - using 2007.1 about 3 weeks ago! |
| 20:14.21 | CM | So with 2007.2 |
| 20:14.39 | zdanek | over and over :) |
| 20:14.39 | jpcass | 2007.1 seemed loads faster - booting and reacting to UI |
| 20:15.05 | zdanek | CM & jpcass did you do trick with reloading gsmd in matchbox/session? |
| 20:15.07 | jpcass | zdanek: no worries, let us know if it works! |
| 20:15.16 | zdanek | ok |
| 20:15.28 | CM | zdanek: I haven't tried that yet. Been too lazy |
| 20:15.38 | jpcass | zdanek: no; i just removed the console from bootargs... what is the reload idea? |
| 20:15.39 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.202) |
| 20:15.44 | CM | Hoped that some om guy would have enough time to fix it properly |
| 20:16.03 | zdanek | I can dial with this fix |
| 20:16.29 | zdanek | how can I force ipkg to install mc from .ipk file? |
| 20:16.42 | zdanek | (not from repo) |
| 20:17.01 | CM | zdanek: Isn't it in any repo? |
| 20:18.03 | zdanek | I mean from address that jpcass provided |
| 20:18.08 | jpcass | zdanek: i guess you need to download it (onto Sd card?) and run ipkg on the file itself |
| 20:19.10 | borg_ | | psplash.c:260: error: 'HAND_IMG_WIDTH' undeclared (first use in this function) |
| 20:19.13 | borg_ | mh |
| 20:19.16 | zdanek | I did that |
| 20:19.37 | zdanek | and it's works because it's downloading additional packages |
| 20:19.37 | borg_ | did someone at least compile this before he commitet it? ;) |
| 20:19.39 | zdanek | thx |
| 20:19.52 | zdanek | WOW! |
| 20:19.56 | zdanek | MC works! |
| 20:19.58 | zdanek | :D |
| 20:20.11 | CM | zdanek: Hehe.. Nice :-) |
| 20:20.23 | zdanek | thank you guys :D |
| 20:22.04 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953ACF3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:22.57 | jpcass | great ;-) |
| 20:24.13 | *** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@77-56-188-185.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:24.22 | cw666 | zdanek: ok, i tried it out ... it's not working |
| 20:25.40 | cw666 | i guess i need a full OABI userspace to poke about |
| 20:27.26 | zdanek | what's wrong? |
| 20:27.42 | zdanek | I could make a mistake while writing it |
| 20:27.53 | zdanek | I've installed it on my neo some time ago |
| 20:28.15 | cw666 | zdanek: you need to +x the binaries and the libs |
| 20:28.24 | cw666 | i exepcted the tar was +x already but apparently not |
| 20:28.47 | zdanek | yes, you're right |
| 20:29.01 | zdanek | I broke it while unpacking and packing again |
| 20:29.12 | zdanek | I'll try to fix it |
| 20:30.41 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 20:30.51 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_ (n=Pupeno@89-125-118-105.dhcp-ripwave.irishbroadband.ie) |
| 20:31.46 | borg_ | is the panel brolen at the momment? |
| 20:31.58 | borg_ | s/brolen/broken/ |
| 20:33.03 | cw666 | anyone know if the gps antenna sensitivity on the neo is typical compared to other devices? |
| 20:34.02 | zdanek | I could tell you that is quite good |
| 20:34.12 | zdanek | s/could/can |
| 20:34.19 | zdanek | s/could/can/ |
| 20:34.20 | cw666 | ok, i see only A1 events |
| 20:34.27 | zdanek | damn machine ;) |
| 20:34.42 | zdanek | open window |
| 20:34.45 | zdanek | go to balcony :) |
| 20:34.52 | zdanek | wait... 15 minutes |
| 20:35.06 | zdanek | it needs some time for first boot |
| 20:35.18 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus_ (n=chatzill@78.90.88.72) |
| 20:35.21 | juri_ | so, gps is working, and media player? awesome. |
| 20:35.44 | jpcass | juri_: shame we cant make a call ;-) |
| 20:35.59 | juri_ | jpcass: i didn't buy my neo to be a phone. :P |
| 20:36.06 | cw666 | zdanek: it's really 15 minutes? |
| 20:36.11 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D83F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:36.50 | zdanek | yes, because it gets satellite states or someting with very low speed |
| 20:37.20 | zdanek | now if I turn on GPS on open space it needs max 1 minute to start |
| 20:38.13 | zdanek | cm666 I put proper package |
| 20:38.14 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-10-189.37-151.net24.it) |
| 20:38.14 | cw666 | zdanek: so 15 minutes to sync up if i start it w/o good signal and 1 minute otherwise? |
| 20:39.18 | zdanek | no, I meant if you turn on GPS after long period of not using (especially for the first time) |
| 20:39.42 | zdanek | look for frames |
| 20:39.44 | zdanek | $GPGSA,A,1,05,24,30,,,,,,,,,,2230.0,1000.0,2000.0*00 |
| 20:40.02 | zdanek | 05,24,30 means that it sees 3 satellites |
| 20:40.18 | zdanek | satellites number 05, 24 and 30 |
| 20:40.23 | zdanek | and it's listening to them |
| 20:40.58 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:41.43 | cw666 | $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,89.2,40.0,80.0*0F |
| 20:41.46 | cw666 | over and over |
| 20:41.51 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@host81-156-166-216.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:41.55 | cw666 | i'll fiore up bnep and see if i can get details from here |
| 20:42.02 | cw666 | i just have to find my bluteooth dongle |
| 20:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 20:43.37 | zdanek | so you don't see any satellites |
| 20:43.54 | zdanek | go to window |
| 20:43.56 | cw666 | i do now, only 3 at most |
| 20:43.58 | zdanek | or go outside |
| 20:43.58 | cw666 | and those go away |
| 20:44.01 | cw666 | it's is outside |
| 20:44.03 | cw666 | on the balcony |
| 20:44.05 | cw666 | but there is one above |
| 20:44.09 | cw666 | so maybe ill go for a walk |
| 20:44.11 | zdanek | what is the sky? |
| 20:44.16 | zdanek | cloudy |
| 20:44.20 | zdanek | trees? |
| 20:44.30 | zdanek | another balcony at your head |
| 20:44.45 | cw666 | blue sky |
| 20:44.52 | cw666 | another balcony above yeah |
| 20:44.57 | zdanek | should satscan appear in Applications list? |
| 20:45.02 | cw666 | zdanek: no |
| 20:45.11 | zdanek | cw666... go for a walk :D |
| 20:45.30 | cw666 | zdanek: what accuracy can i expect ones it is working? |
| 20:45.50 | zdanek | quite good |
| 20:46.00 | zdanek | did you see my link to google maps with my gps trace? |
| 20:46.07 | cw666 | yeah |
| 20:46.23 | cw666 | im asking this because i want to be able to locate the nearst bus-stop to me fairly quickly |
| 20:46.35 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: did you get a measurement on how much the GPS draws? |
| 20:46.39 | zdanek | you should have map uploaded |
| 20:46.52 | zdanek | and stick gps trace to nearest road |
| 20:46.59 | *** join/#openmoko root2007 (n=root@72.37.156.50) |
| 20:47.15 | zdanek | that what we do at my work while programming gps navigation boxes |
| 20:47.34 | cw666 | can the gps chip keep track of all this w/ the daemon? or enough of this to recover posn quickly if we suspend the CPU? |
| 20:47.50 | SpeedEvil | Several things in that. |
| 20:47.57 | SpeedEvil | A) this all may change in GTA02 |
| 20:48.18 | SpeedEvil | B) the GPS has its own very accurate clock that you'd really like to keep running. |
| 20:48.36 | SpeedEvil | C) the current software doesn't really support suspend |
| 20:49.00 | SpeedEvil | D) in principle, you can do interesting things with rapidly aquiring a position - but again the current software does not. |
| 20:49.20 | cw666 | so we're at the mercy of how crappy the closed driver will be? |
| 20:49.28 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@216.sub-75-198-207.myvzw.com) |
| 20:49.31 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 20:49.47 | SpeedEvil | It's not been revealed what the alternate GPS engine is. |
| 20:50.13 | vallor | SpeedEvil: if it's nmea, ntpd has a driver to be stratum-1 with that clock... |
| 20:50.26 | SpeedEvil | That's quite irrelevant |
| 20:50.31 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: i thought it would be the same chip and an EABI version of the same binary |
| 20:50.39 | SpeedEvil | Possibly not |
| 20:50.40 | cw666 | i hope it's a library if it has to be closed |
| 20:50.53 | cw666 | i *really* dont want to have to deal with some bloated dbus enabled fucko app if possible |
| 20:50.53 | vallor | ...probably overkill, but maybe some folks would get a kick out of having a stratum-1 time server in their phone ;P |
| 20:51.16 | SpeedEvil | There is a VCXO that is the accurate clock for the GPS |
| 20:51.26 | vallor | oh, pps? |
| 20:51.36 | SpeedEvil | this and the hammerhead chip when idle uses around 15mA, or 45mW |
| 20:51.40 | SpeedEvil | no, not PPS |
| 20:51.55 | SpeedEvil | it's a fast clock which the psuedoranges are measured against |
| 20:52.26 | vallor | oh |
| 20:52.35 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead/Protocol may be of use |
| 20:52.40 | SpeedEvil | - for the current solution |
| 20:53.07 | SpeedEvil | See Enhancements on that page |
| 20:53.39 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS has some information on interesting stuff that the hammerhead can do precisely because it is so dumb |
| 20:53.51 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: i hoped i could leave GPS on mostly 24/7 and have a usable device |
| 20:53.55 | cw666 | sounds unlikely |
| 20:54.13 | SpeedEvil | You can, but 24/1.5-2 maybe |
| 20:54.40 | SpeedEvil | If you are willing to take a position every 180s or so, then the power use goes quite low. |
| 20:54.48 | SpeedEvil | If 'slow' mode works as advertised. |
| 20:55.18 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: well, if i power down the CPU it's still a lot |
| 20:55.21 | cw666 | like 2x for GSM only |
| 20:55.37 | SpeedEvil | It's not quite that simple :/ |
| 20:56.16 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: gsm should be ~20mA or less, GPS that too |
| 20:56.22 | cw666 | CPU near zero once there is usable PM |
| 20:56.22 | SpeedEvil | If you keep the clock on and the chip hot, that means that you get a nearly trivial position probably up to several minutes later. |
| 20:56.36 | SpeedEvil | CPU is not near zero - unless it's off. |
| 20:56.50 | SpeedEvil | the powerdown states are not especially low power |
| 20:57.05 | cw666 | right, off, which is really suspended, samsung call it something confusing |
| 20:57.58 | SpeedEvil | if you powerdown the chip, and the clock, then you need a clock which can provide time to within about a millisecond ideally to get a fast position on resume |
| 20:58.14 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: the idea was/is to geep the GPS chip on |
| 20:58.21 | cw666 | s/geep/keep/ |
| 20:58.22 | Writchie | cw666: PM is going to suck until we do a linux suspend which requires that all drivers proper support suspend and resume |
| 20:58.26 | SpeedEvil | The GPS chip isn't a conventional chip |
| 20:58.41 | SpeedEvil | it requires the CPU to do all the sums. |
| 20:58.46 | SpeedEvil | It does not spit out NMEA |
| 20:58.54 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: right, it's more limited, that's why i asked how much external support was needed to get a fast fix quickly |
| 20:59.02 | SpeedEvil | This is good in principle, as it means you can do really interesting things with OS drivers. |
| 20:59.06 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 20:59.08 | cw666 | if the GPS is on, how long after wake the CPU can i get usable/sane results is what im wondering |
| 20:59.38 | Writchie | cw666: if everything is done right in all the drivers resume can be < 200ms |
| 20:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-119.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:01.05 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: IIRC we've lost time because the counter for the RTC is not accessable |
| 21:01.38 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: although maybe we can catch the 1 second tick |
| 21:01.39 | cw666 | gah |
| 21:01.47 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (n=8472@dslb-084-056-210-144.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:01.48 | SpeedEvil | That was what I was assuming. |
| 21:02.09 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek2 (n=b@ams122.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 21:02.14 | Writchie | time resolution is still 1/32 ms |
| 21:02.29 | SpeedEvil | that's plenty probably |
| 21:02.38 | *** part/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CF95C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:02.43 | Writchie | but we have to wait /5 seconds average for a tick |
| 21:03.00 | cw666 | RTC stops when the CPU is suspended? |
| 21:03.11 | SpeedEvil | There are eleventy RTCs in the neo. |
| 21:03.12 | Writchie | RTC is IIRC on PM chip now |
| 21:03.12 | zdanek2 | fine, I got connection error and disconnected but my nick still here |
| 21:03.15 | SpeedEvil | Well - 3 |
| 21:03.41 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure which ones can actually in principle be used. |
| 21:03.51 | Writchie | which one's have the crystal? |
| 21:04.00 | SpeedEvil | good question |
| 21:04.04 | cw666 | i guess if GPS is on we can get a value from that |
| 21:04.15 | cw666 | on resume |
| 21:04.18 | SpeedEvil | Probably |
| 21:04.24 | Writchie | if it maintains counters |
| 21:04.31 | cw666 | would end up being userspace funkies though, might be ugly |
| 21:04.44 | Writchie | user space can be running in <200ms |
| 21:04.57 | SpeedEvil | And a stub in u-boot much faster |
| 21:05.03 | Writchie | much much faster |
| 21:05.13 | Writchie | but then your at the bit level |
| 21:05.16 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 21:05.54 | Writchie | i'm feeling better about power now that OLPC has measured 160ms resume |
| 21:06.02 | Writchie | of course they are i386 |
| 21:06.16 | Writchie | but it should be similar for arm |
| 21:06.27 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:06.37 | Writchie | they had problems with USB which were recently solved and I suspect we may have the same |
| 21:06.57 | SpeedEvil | Oh - the USB host mode works |
| 21:07.04 | SpeedEvil | someone had it going earlier. |
| 21:07.20 | SpeedEvil | The patch in SVN plus that patch I posted on the ML |
| 21:07.51 | *** join/#openmoko Tenso (n=root@32.168.91.164) |
| 21:07.57 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: somebody had USB suspend working? |
| 21:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (n=8472@dslb-084-056-214-193.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:09.10 | Writchie | Writchie: OLPC had problems one the USB resume from CPU off |
| 21:09.18 | Writchie | s/one/on/ |
| 21:09.46 | Writchie | getting confused between cold start and resume IIRC |
| 21:10.08 | pvanhoof | oh, my phone doesn't start if I press that power button anymore |
| 21:10.10 | Writchie | anyway they got it working fully on their platform |
| 21:10.16 | pvanhoof | unplugged everything, took out battery etc etc |
| 21:10.25 | pvanhoof | waited a few minutes while usb-cable is plugged in, retried |
| 21:10.26 | pvanhoof | etc |
| 21:10.28 | pvanhoof | is it broken? ;) |
| 21:10.44 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: few=? |
| 21:10.46 | pvanhoof | I just received it, have started it up twice and other than that it has been lying on my desk |
| 21:10.48 | *** join/#openmoko emre_ (n=emre@88.232.193.90) |
| 21:10.49 | SpeedEvil | it may need to be 30 |
| 21:10.54 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, ~5 minutes |
| 21:11.01 | emre_ | hi folks, how can I clean all? |
| 21:11.03 | cjb | I got bad news: 160ms resume was without USB. |
| 21:11.11 | pvanhoof | oh ok, then I'll just let it charge a few more minutes |
| 21:11.14 | emre_ | with mokomakefile |
| 21:11.15 | SpeedEvil | USB is only bluetooth though |
| 21:11.19 | SpeedEvil | in the undocked mode |
| 21:11.38 | SpeedEvil | of course, that's one of the interesting things |
| 21:12.06 | pvanhoof | so, how do I know its charging? |
| 21:12.14 | pvanhoof | to led? :( |
| 21:12.15 | SpeedEvil | you don't |
| 21:12.17 | pvanhoof | s/to/no |
| 21:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@cpe-213-157-235-29.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 21:12.20 | pvanhoof | ok |
| 21:13.14 | cjb | Writchie: I don't know where you get this idea that our problems are fixed from ;-) |
| 21:13.37 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@3e70cc9b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:13.40 | Writchie | i think it was your boss's blog ;) |
| 21:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 21:14.12 | cjb | ah, that'd do it :) |
| 21:14.30 | Writchie | so they are fixed - but what's the real story? |
| 21:14.38 | cjb | they aren't fixed |
| 21:14.45 | cjb | the tests jg reported on were booted nousb |
| 21:14.57 | Writchie | other than usb its working? |
| 21:15.05 | cjb | but the problems we're having (probably) aren't kernel-specific |
| 21:15.27 | Writchie | i'm sure we will have a different set of problems with our hardware |
| 21:15.46 | SpeedEvil | At least we have JTAG |
| 21:15.47 | Writchie | but it it's promising to know there that the kernel framework is close |
| 21:15.52 | cjb | SpeedEvil: so do we |
| 21:15.59 | SpeedEvil | I know |
| 21:16.03 | cjb | yeah, the kernel's behaving well, I think |
| 21:16.09 | SpeedEvil | I'm just saying - without JTAG, it could be painful |
| 21:16.27 | Writchie | did you do every driver twice? |
| 21:16.39 | cjb | hm? |
| 21:17.23 | Writchie | cjb: we do have a potential out of band solution for USB but only on GTA01 |
| 21:17.46 | cjb | what is being done out of band? |
| 21:18.04 | Writchie | we can fiddle the BT chip into standby and then resume |
| 21:18.23 | Writchie | it will work if the USB state on the SoC works to specs |
| 21:18.30 | Writchie | which is probably unlikely |
| 21:18.40 | Writchie | OHCI specs |
| 21:18.44 | cjb | how does usb work at all while you're in suspend? isn't the host controller powered down? |
| 21:19.08 | Writchie | yes it's powered down in suspend. |
| 21:19.38 | SpeedEvil | the bluetooth ahs a seperate PSU |
| 21:19.42 | SpeedEvil | there is no USB power |
| 21:19.50 | cjb | so you're letting a separate bluetooth chip run during suspend, and then there's some wire that it asserts to wake up the EC when it wants to, and then you just reenumerate usb as normal when the kernel wakes up? |
| 21:20.03 | SpeedEvil | Alas, no |
| 21:20.03 | Writchie | yup |
| 21:20.07 | SpeedEvil | there is no wire |
| 21:20.12 | SpeedEvil | at least in this version |
| 21:20.18 | SpeedEvil | we have to poll it |
| 21:20.25 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-177-149.44-151.net24.it) |
| 21:20.26 | cjb | oh, the EC polls it? |
| 21:20.32 | SpeedEvil | No, the main CPU |
| 21:20.43 | cjb | ... |
| 21:20.47 | cjb | which is in suspend? :) |
| 21:20.49 | Writchie | we can do it the Steppingstone trick if we have to |
| 21:20.49 | cjb | so confused. |
| 21:20.50 | SpeedEvil | there needs to be nastiness with an early checker in u-boot probably |
| 21:21.08 | SpeedEvil | turn on every n seconds on RTC |
| 21:21.15 | cjb | whoa |
| 21:21.18 | SpeedEvil | poll the USB, turn off - in u-boot |
| 21:21.19 | cjb | that is insane |
| 21:21.21 | SpeedEvil | there is no EC |
| 21:21.24 | Writchie | but we don't bring up the whole kernel |
| 21:21.29 | cjb | oh, in uboot |
| 21:21.30 | Writchie | just take a peek |
| 21:21.33 | cjb | wow |
| 21:21.46 | cjb | how's the battery life doing? :) |
| 21:21.46 | Writchie | welcome to workaround world |
| 21:21.48 | SpeedEvil | Many of us would like an EC |
| 21:21.56 | SpeedEvil | cjb: not brilliant |
| 21:22.04 | SpeedEvil | most of stuff is not implemented |
| 21:22.08 | hrw | http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Openmoko_Phone_linux_based_New_UI_Screenshots |
| 21:22.35 | SpeedEvil | Lowest power I've gotten it at is about 300mW |
| 21:22.38 | SpeedEvil | at 100Mhz |
| 21:22.42 | SpeedEvil | and undervolted |
| 21:22.47 | Writchie | is don't see us being 16 hour usable until we can suspend |
| 21:22.52 | Writchie | and of course resume |
| 21:23.11 | SpeedEvil | Nobodies gotten it running in the mythical 'slow' mode |
| 21:23.16 | SpeedEvil | 12Mhz |
| 21:23.23 | cw666 | it sounds like it doesnt save much power anyhow |
| 21:23.32 | cjb | what did you want to wake from BT for, anyway? what sort of BT device? |
| 21:23.34 | SpeedEvil | It goes down to about 50mW or so |
| 21:23.39 | cw666 | from what? |
| 21:23.44 | SpeedEvil | for example, wake on press of hold button on headset |
| 21:23.48 | Writchie | press button on headset to like may a call |
| 21:23.52 | SpeedEvil | ratehr than digging it out of pocket |
| 21:23.59 | Writchie | or purse |
| 21:24.33 | SpeedEvil | What we really need is OPPC. :) |
| 21:24.45 | cw666 | gsmd really hates me and is being a little bitch today |
| 21:26.02 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (n=8472@dslb-084-056-231-017.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:26.23 | Writchie | cjb: what are you using USB for in OLPC |
| 21:28.14 | cjb | Writchie: our wireless chip presents over USB. |
| 21:28.14 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: the steppingstone hack doesn't have to be all that ugly |
| 21:28.22 | cjb | and is always running, even while the main CPU is powered down. |
| 21:28.38 | Writchie | cjb: does it have wakeup from Lan |
| 21:28.42 | Writchie | or WLAN |
| 21:28.42 | cjb | yes |
| 21:28.53 | Writchie | which chip |
| 21:28.57 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: in principle, no. It's annoying to have to develop it for the want of a wire though |
| 21:29.01 | cjb | wireless->ed |
| 21:29.02 | cjb | ec |
| 21:29.15 | cjb | no polling :) |
| 21:29.44 | Writchie | cjb: cool which we had something like that |
| 21:29.44 | SpeedEvil | EC would enable stuff like wake on signature shake |
| 21:29.51 | SpeedEvil | if connected to the accel |
| 21:29.56 | SpeedEvil | or .. |
| 21:30.03 | cjb | Writchie: sounds like gta01 has some design problems :) |
| 21:30.35 | mjr | well, at least the one |
| 21:30.43 | Writchie | a few - but major unplanned additions are causing the problems. |
| 21:31.00 | Writchie | some things not well thought and designed reviewed |
| 21:31.04 | *** join/#openmoko daltona (n=daltona@cap31-4-82-234-41-108.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:31.24 | SpeedEvil | The bluetooth problem was as the primary designer hadn't really used bluetooth |
| 21:31.39 | SpeedEvil | so diddn't think that wake on bluetooth was interesting |
| 21:31.44 | Writchie | which would have been caught instantly at design review by anyone from the mobile space |
| 21:33.15 | zdanek2 | with lates build manual GSM connection doesn't work |
| 21:33.18 | zdanek2 | cu hangs |
| 21:33.34 | zdanek2 | even with reenabling crtscts |
| 21:33.53 | Writchie | zdanek2: i think cesarb has had similar problems for on OM2007.2 for a couple of weeks |
| 21:34.03 | zdanek2 | I can dial |
| 21:34.21 | zdanek2 | but I can't run AT commands manually, aaargh |
| 21:34.31 | zdanek2 | I'm trying to run damn GPRS for weeks |
| 21:34.34 | zdanek2 | and nothing |
| 21:35.16 | Writchie | you need to stay on original 2007.1 to play with gsm |
| 21:35.33 | Writchie | serious regressions in 2007.2 |
| 21:35.46 | Writchie | with no end in sight |
| 21:36.11 | cw666 | Writchie: gprs works for me in 2007.2 |
| 21:36.17 | cw666 | Writchie: at least did last i tried it |
| 21:36.43 | Writchie | cw666: from an image or a build |
| 21:36.46 | zdanek2 | cw666 can you check gprs for me? |
| 21:37.01 | zdanek2 | and if it works - send me your scripts? |
| 21:37.43 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@3e70cc9b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:37.50 | cw666 | Writchie: from a build |
| 21:37.58 | Writchie | how recent? |
| 21:38.12 | cw666 | Writchie: a couple of days, not tested on a recent build |
| 21:38.49 | Writchie | maybe there is a window where it worked or maybe its even been fixed. |
| 21:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko senikk (n=senikk@14.80-202-195.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:39.04 | Writchie | latest libgsm changes have borked the build |
| 21:39.16 | cw666 | Writchie: i finally got a build this morning |
| 21:39.27 | cw666 | i think given how crappy/slow OE im about to give up on it |
| 21:39.31 | cw666 | and move to makefiles |
| 21:39.35 | cw666 | screw pretty packages for now |
| 21:39.40 | Writchie | cw666: me too |
| 21:39.42 | pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, it starts! |
| 21:39.48 | pvanhoof | I guess indeed the battery was too down |
| 21:39.54 | SpeedEvil | pvanhoof: :) |
| 21:39.59 | cw666 | Writchie: ive done makefiles and crossbuilds for years w/o anywhere near the pain/slowness of this |
| 21:40.02 | cw666 | it |
| 21:40.22 | zdanek2 | cw666: check your gprs for me |
| 21:40.25 | cw666 | OE is stagerringly retarded for my purposes, i want a semi-hackable phone, not gnome-bloat-in-my-pocket |
| 21:40.35 | cw666 | zdanek2: i just tried, i can't find the scripts right now |
| 21:40.40 | zdanek2 | damn |
| 21:40.41 | Writchie | cw666: buildroot is started to look good |
| 21:40.49 | cw666 | Writchie: buildroot? |
| 21:40.59 | cw666 | Writchie: i dont follow OE/OM mailing lists or irc much |
| 21:41.20 | Writchie | buildroot = older embedded toolchain generator |
| 21:41.50 | cw666 | Writchie: fwiw, ive done several crossbuild envs in the past (it's actually a part of my job that im trying to get a replacement person for) |
| 21:41.58 | Writchie | cw666: OE is probably a good thing - but not the way its being managed at present |
| 21:42.01 | cw666 | so im certainly not against doing one for the neo hacking |
| 21:42.07 | cw666 | Writchie: OE is not a good thing |
| 21:42.14 | cw666 | Writchie: it's an insanely large amount of shitty bloat |
| 21:42.28 | Writchie | cw666: welllll yeah |
| 21:42.46 | cw666 | Writchie: really, i want something a lot more minimal, faster to boot and more responsive |
| 21:43.00 | cw666 | all the OE/OM people can mock me that i dont have all their games, i dont really care |
| 21:43.06 | *** join/#openmoko quicksand (n=cwixon@63.81.161.120) |
| 21:43.32 | cw666 | like i said, i want a hackable phone, not 27 different gnome games in my pocket |
| 21:43.36 | Writchie | for practical purposes OE=OM |
| 21:44.00 | Writchie | cw666: I agree that the focus should be on building from the bottom up. |
| 21:44.05 | Writchie | and not from the top down |
| 21:44.09 | cw666 | i dont care much for either, ill steal the bits i can use (the UIs aren't bad, those prob worth stealing) |
| 21:44.33 | cw666 | Writchie: well, that's all i can do, because in RL im a kernel guy and do some low-level userspace |
| 21:44.33 | Casten | Here's a build question, probably easy.. What does the -liberty flag do? I'm getting an error, do I need to install something? |
| 21:44.37 | cw666 | i can't do GUIs |
| 21:44.43 | cw666 | i suck do badly at that stuff |
| 21:45.01 | cw666 | Casten: it means to link with libiberty |
| 21:45.22 | Casten | is that a package? |
| 21:45.23 | cw666 | which is a semi-generic GNU library |
| 21:45.35 | cw666 | http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/libiberty/ |
| 21:46.23 | quicksand | Is anyone around who has commit access to OE? |
| 21:46.54 | quicksand | My Free42 recipe (RPN Calculator) has been languishing in the bugtracker for a week-plus: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2920 |
| 21:46.56 | cw666 | Writchie: if you really are interested in an alternative (ie. minimalist as hell and very sucky to start with) ill probably have something in a week or so |
| 21:47.10 | Writchie | cw666: I am interested. |
| 21:47.18 | cw666 | quicksand: ironically, free42 is one of the few apps i want from the OE/OM stuff |
| 21:47.29 | quicksand | And it's such a nice thing to have on my Neo that it would be nice to get it in the database. |
| 21:47.33 | Writchie | basic cross development for kernel + basic apps at shell level |
| 21:47.38 | Writchie | x optional |
| 21:47.43 | cw666 | Writchie: it's 99% going to be a debian chroot (64 bit initially) with crosstools and some makefile goop |
| 21:47.54 | cw666 | Writchie: focus will be kernel and libc stuff first |
| 21:48.05 | cw666 | Writchie: x and everything else ill need help with, to steal from the OE/OM tree |
| 21:48.14 | cw666 | oh, and ill likely not change stuff that often once it's working |
| 21:48.26 | cw666 | im a bit of a bitch like that, unless gcc is broken, i wont mess with it |
| 21:48.34 | Writchie | need BT and d-buss |
| 21:48.34 | Casten | cw666: Hmmm, the page says to put libiberty in your sources.. so which particular place should I put it? |
| 21:49.22 | cw666 | Writchie: neither of those are that horrnedous though |
| 21:49.34 | Writchie | very true |
| 21:49.40 | cw666 | Writchie: dbus and BT are both fairly small sane c-ish things |
| 21:49.45 | Writchie | the bloat is added above |
| 21:50.03 | cw666 | e-calendar-factory is FITH |
| 21:50.06 | rwhitby | quicksand: mind if I rename the .bb file to free42-vga ? |
| 21:50.15 | cw666 | gconfd-2 too |
| 21:50.19 | cw666 | root 1703 0.7 8.1 21332 10384 pts/1 S 19:40 0:06 openmoko-today |
| 21:50.25 | quicksand | rwhitby: just adding the hyphen? fine with me. |
| 21:50.30 | cw666 | how much of that resident size is unique to that process i have no idea |
| 21:50.51 | rwhitby | quicksand: testing a build now |
| 21:51.07 | cw666 | anyhow, run about w/ GPS going time to see what happens |
| 21:51.10 | rwhitby | I presume it's been well tested on the neo, right? |
| 21:51.27 | rwhitby | I'm using the .tar.bz file from the bugtracker |
| 21:51.44 | quicksand | Well, on my Neo at least! Yeah, it runs fine, no errors, no wildly crazy computation results. ;) |
| 21:52.00 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:52.45 | zdanek2 | cm666: any chances for GPRS scripts anyway? |
| 21:53.24 | Casten | cw666: I see that my libiberty is incompatible, and now I notice that I am not using the preferred version of glibc, I guess I should switch to 2.5 |
| 21:54.12 | rwhitby | quicksand: why is the resulting executable called free42dec, not just free42? |
| 21:54.16 | cw666 | Casten: honestly, i never looked into the internals of OE/OM and failures as it irritates me |
| 21:54.29 | cw666 | Casten: i know a build from this morning did complete though |
| 21:54.56 | Writchie | zdanek: have you looked -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS |
| 21:55.03 | polz | could someone please point me to an explanation of where exactly bitbake looks for .bb files ? |
| 21:55.14 | quicksand | The original package -- from source -- builds free42bin and free42 dec. *bin uses binary math, while *dec uses decimal math, which while slower, is more accurate and more consistent with the original calculator. |
| 21:55.20 | Writchie | polz: i think the short answer is everywhere |
| 21:55.20 | polz | especially if it's invoked by mokomakefile |
| 21:55.28 | *** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@56.84-48-193.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:55.52 | quicksand | One of my patches causes the *bin version not to be built. I didn't think we needed both. |
| 21:55.58 | polz | Writchie: well, I've tried doing what the application development crash course in the wiki told me to do... |
| 21:55.59 | polz | and it doesn't seem to be working |
| 21:56.00 | Casten | cw666: Maybe once I am done I can add my notes to the build requirements. So far glibc 2.5 and zlib were two surprises. |
| 21:56.52 | polz | unless I replace build/conf/site.conf with the one from my local "overlay", it doesn't find the helloworld.bb |
| 21:56.59 | polz | which is also in local |
| 21:57.01 | Writchie | polz: sorry I can't help, I spend past couple of hours trying to follow dependencies for to debug the present borked build |
| 21:57.14 | rwhitby | polz: have you read the bitbake and OE manuals? |
| 21:57.46 | polz | rwhitby: do I have to ? Those docs are huge :/ |
| 21:58.14 | rwhitby | My philosophy is if you are going to use a tool, then you should read it's documentation cover to cover at least once. |
| 21:58.49 | rwhitby | Otherwise you are not respecting the author of the tool and the work they put into documenting it. |
| 21:58.50 | Casten | cw666: If openmoko folks would like to widen adoption, an idea might be to have a premade Ubuntu distro with everything building. something like that would ahve and I'm sure will save me countless hours trying to get a vanilla system set up for building. |
| 21:58.57 | ckuethe | you should, but you shouldn't have to... |
| 21:58.58 | zdanek | writchie: I did and it never worked |
| 21:59.31 | polz | rwhitby: I'd much rather start writing useful little apps than learn about the internals + the local configuration of something as flexible as bitbake |
| 22:00.14 | rwhitby | polz: well, unfortunately, the option of not using bitbake/OE is not yet offered by OpenMoko, so that's not an option on the table, right? |
| 22:00.36 | rwhitby | I agree with you that application developers shouldn't be using bitbake/OE/MokoMakefile at all. |
| 22:01.12 | polz | rwhitby: I guess you're right. I'll waste a few more afternoons and read through the docs... |
| 22:01.19 | quicksand | polz: I agree with rwhitby on reading docs thoroughly. But just this once: http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ch04s02.html#id870544 |
| 22:01.24 | rwhitby | OE is a distro build tool, not an application SDK. |
| 22:01.58 | Writchie | rwhitby: but it is not building a distribution |
| 22:02.01 | polz | although I'm pretty sure I'll have to also read half of the configuration files provided by openmoko... and the makefile which is supposed to make the process of starting development easier... |
| 22:02.24 | Writchie | rwhitby: and openmoko recipes are now in OE |
| 22:02.27 | Writchie | OE=OM |
| 22:02.33 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@89-125-118-105.dhcp-ripwave.irishbroadband.ie) |
| 22:02.38 | rwhitby | polz: yep, I'm afraid that's the case. |
| 22:02.55 | quicksand | Writchie: OE>>OM imho |
| 22:03.34 | polz | rwhitby: I don't mean to be disrespectful towards the smart people who built the distribution, but if I have to study the system in detail just to use it, it's crap. |
| 22:03.44 | quicksand | \me offers rwhitby a beer or beverage of choice if he happens to visit that San Francisco area. |
| 22:04.01 | borg_ | rwhitby: i have seen a screenshot of free42, looks nice |
| 22:04.09 | borg_ | is there an ipk somewhere already? |
| 22:04.13 | rwhitby | polz: I expect the people who built the distribution will agree with you. |
| 22:04.23 | polz | the barrier to entry should be as low as possible... This whole thing reminds me of Zope + Plone :( |
| 22:04.52 | rwhitby | polz: fully agree |
| 22:05.07 | quicksand | polz: The documentation is sorely lacking, to be sure. The free42 package I have been discussing with rwhitby just now is the result of hours and hours of reading .bb and .bbclass files from the OE tree. |
| 22:05.13 | quicksand | AND the manuals. :) |
| 22:05.17 | polz | rwhitby: ehh, well, at least it's something. This is still way better than having to build gcc-cross on my own. |
| 22:05.20 | rwhitby | there should be a whole completely different SDK for application developers |
| 22:05.31 | Writchie | polz: i'm not so sure about that |
| 22:06.05 | Writchie | rwhitby: well i don't care about the apps and i've been blocked for days at a time. |
| 22:07.01 | Casten | A seperate SDK for app developers vs. system developers? |
| 22:07.16 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:07.33 | rwhitby | Casten: yes - usually the SDK is done *after* the system has been built, by a completely different development group. |
| 22:08.05 | polz | rwhitby: I beleive simple instructions on how to set up a working overlay with some additional packages would suffice |
| 22:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:09.19 | Writchie | polz: rwhitby: what good is documentation if there is no working frozen build to start with?? |
| 22:09.23 | polz | rwhitby: something like "run 'make local' to create an overlay", plus some example packages - one with autoconf, one with qmake and one with a custom makefile |
| 22:09.34 | rwhitby | polz: ok, now you just have to bribe quicksand to write that set of simple instructions |
| 22:09.52 | rwhitby | Writchie: I'm working on the frozen bit. |
| 22:09.58 | polz | hehe |
| 22:10.14 | Writchie | i though that was done - sorry? |
| 22:10.14 | rwhitby | But mickey|zzZZzz is still zzZZzz, so I haven't been able to harrass and convince him yet. |
| 22:10.23 | polz | rwhitby: I think someone has already attempted that - there are some instructions in the wiki |
| 22:10.25 | rwhitby | openmoko-* packages are still floating |
| 22:10.34 | polz | unfortunately, they're not working for me |
| 22:10.54 | Writchie | rwhitby: i assume that's why depencies are broken |
| 22:11.24 | quicksand | rwhitby: How did you know that I take bribes? I will write something when I understand it well enough to do so. That's why I'm here. |
| 22:11.44 | Casten | rhtitby: Well, it seems this project is a little unusual. If the system builds, I don't see why an app developer would mind, once they got past the first build. I feel a few basic samples and API's should suffice, assuming one can get the system running. |
| 22:12.21 | rwhitby | quicksand: pushing free42 now |
| 22:12.28 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) |
| 22:12.31 | rwhitby | it should be in the feeds next time mickey|zzZZzz runs the builder |
| 22:12.47 | polz | fsck... I have to go to bed... another day GONE without a simple app. ARGH! |
| 22:12.53 | Writchie | rwhitby: your work is very much appreciated ;) |
| 22:13.08 | quicksand | polz: Right now the instructions in the wiki are somewhat like a magic incantation. As in: "Do this -- it works -- nobody knows why. Nobody who has lived to tell about it, at least. Mwahahahaha!" |
| 22:13.27 | quicksand | Awesome. Thanks rwhitby. |
| 22:13.46 | rwhitby | thx for packaging it - I'll be a user myself. |
| 22:14.25 | quicksand | My pleasure. As my page on the wiki says, I've been using it for a long time. First on a PalmOS device, then on Windows Mobile. |
| 22:14.30 | Writchie | atm the moment i think this project is seriously loosing out on dev help from the community due to the f*ck u read the bb docs mentality of the core developers |
| 22:14.42 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__9 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-221ce8185ff8011d) |
| 22:15.15 | quicksand | Writchie: To be fair, the core guys have a lot of things to deal with right now, and documentation/tutorials haven't been high on the list. |
| 22:15.16 | rwhitby | Writchie: I think it's simpler a matter of available time, rather than an attitude, for most of the people you are referring to. |
| 22:15.20 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F236.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:15.28 | polz | I thought the core developers were working on the hardware and drivers... |
| 22:15.39 | Writchie | i'm not talking about documentation - i'm talking about a working tool chain and build |
| 22:15.40 | rwhitby | I doubt there is anyone who's job is to write documentation for OM right now. |
| 22:15.58 | polz | and just crossing their fingers that perhaps some people will be able to make sense of the build system and write an app or two |
| 22:16.06 | Writchie | for example, what is jserv using what is harald using ? |
| 22:16.11 | rwhitby | and a big phone manufacturer would have a team of 5 doing the doco for the SDK. |
| 22:16.31 | Writchie | rwhitby: well they'd at least have 1 manager |
| 22:16.35 | quicksand | I like OE, quite a bit, from what little I know about it so far. But unfortunately activity on the .dev branch is really high, and sometimes things get broken. |
| 22:16.57 | quicksand | And there's not much OM can do about it, except deal with the consequences until it gets fixed. |
| 22:17.11 | zdanek | going to sleep |
| 22:17.14 | zdanek | goodnight |
| 22:17.18 | Writchie | but OM - OE are the same people |
| 22:17.20 | rwhitby | quicksand: that should change now that SRCREV support is in, as long as I can convince mickey|zzZZzz to freeze the OM packages too |
| 22:17.30 | quicksand | 'nite zdanek |
| 22:17.51 | rwhitby | Writchie: no they are not - there are *many* more OE people than OM people, and most of those OE people don't build the openmoko distro. |
| 22:18.17 | quicksand | rwhitby: fair enough -- there has been improvement already, actually, now that most things aren't getting rebuilt every day. |
| 22:18.18 | abraxa_ | Writchie: I myself do all development using locally-built libgsmd/libmokoui only and don't have any troubles with that setup at all - I just use OE for cross-compiling and testing on the actual device. |
| 22:18.20 | Writchie | I see - they just break the OM distro |
| 22:18.40 | rwhitby | Writchie: yep, and sometimes OM breaks their distro. |
| 22:19.13 | rwhitby | and sometimes core bitbake or OE changes break all distros |
| 22:19.14 | quicksand | Writchie: I was an Angstrom distribution user before OM, and that's OE too. And the NSLU2 stuff, etc. |
| 22:19.15 | polz | abraxa_: does the dialer actually work for you ? |
| 22:19.37 | abraxa_ | polz: I'm not working on those apps |
| 22:19.51 | abraxa_ | My point is that you can do application development without OE, too |
| 22:19.52 | roh | quicksand i think this one will get that distro stability to get better http://www.openembedded.org/openmoko-hires-developer-devoted-to-openembedded |
| 22:20.57 | rwhitby | abraxa_: if there is a recipe for doing what you are doing that can be automated, I'd be happy to add it to MokoMakefile |
| 22:21.03 | quicksand | roh: Darn, I thought you might have linked to the actual announcement! ;) I'm waiting on that name. And yes, I'm sure that will help a great deal. |
| 22:21.54 | ynezz | cworth: btw, have you been successful in mtn->git conversion? |
| 22:23.22 | roh | and now.. packing up.. bbl.. need to repair my bike tonight |
| 22:23.52 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: My way is kinda hack-ish since I'm overwriting the sources OE uses to compile my .bb package so I wouldn't recommend it for widespread usage. As there however already are non-hackish ways (e.g. local overlays) I think others are better off adopting these |
| 22:24.07 | vallor | so with an alsa audio device on the phone -- is it possible to playback music on a phone conversation, while being able to talk? |
| 22:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko sunix (n=sunix@sunix.org) |
| 22:24.45 | vallor | I mean, that's some pretty collaborative snazzy stuff right there -- or popping a link to the person at the other end of the convo, so that they can get grab the same music you are listening too |
| 22:26.07 | quicksand | vallor: I believe so -- but the block diagram on the wiki makes my brain spill out my ears: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem |
| 22:26.20 | vallor | maybe I've had too much caffeine today, but it seems like a way to differentiate the product |
| 22:27.30 | vallor | I'm envisioning what an ad would look like, showing two people grabbing an mp3 in seconds, and playing it back together, on a phone convo... tagline: "You know what you want.(tm)" |
| 22:27.47 | vallor | I dunno, just spitballing |
| 22:27.54 | SpeedEvil | Pushing illegal things may cause problems in some markets. |
| 22:28.16 | vallor | doesn't have to be illegal, if they're both licensed for the music |
| 22:28.17 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Nice choice of words. |
| 22:28.33 | vallor | hmm... Rhapsody, maybe? |
| 22:28.38 | quicksand | vallor: That would be cool, but I think most people around here would be pleased with a phone that actually rings and can be used as a voice communication device, first. |
| 22:28.40 | Writchie | doing anything may cause legal problems in some markets |
| 22:28.46 | Writchie | or not doing something |
| 22:30.03 | sunix | quicksand: i agree with you |
| 22:30.20 | sunix | :) |
| 22:30.35 | vallor | quicksand: that's a good point, but it's going to do that eventually -- btw, I tried yesterday to build with Mokomakefile, still falls apart with the binutils -- haven't looked at gsmd since day before yesterday, but it does seem to be well put-together, it's just hard (for me) to debug because its all about callbacks, pretty much... |
| 22:31.14 | quicksand | vallor: Does this help re binutils: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2928 |
| 22:31.15 | vallor | on the other hand, I haven't run gsmd with gdb yet |
| 22:31.40 | quicksand | There's a workaround patch there, and I used it myself successfully. |
| 22:31.53 | vallor | quicksand: !!!!! |
| 22:31.53 | *** join/#openmoko DPThough1 (n=tilli@mail.collax.com) |
| 22:31.55 | vallor | sweet! |
| 22:32.33 | quicksand | Thank cesarb for it, not me. We all benefit. |
| 22:32.39 | vallor | :) |
| 22:32.49 | vallor | thank you, cesarb :) |
| 22:35.11 | Writchie | simple update = 3 days of pain |
| 22:35.57 | *** join/#openmoko BenC_ (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 22:36.50 | Writchie | rwhitby: am I wrong is or a successfull build just a roll of the dice as to what changes you hit |
| 22:37.32 | rwhitby | Writchie: it used to be - now with SRCREV it should be much more predictable |
| 22:37.51 | rwhitby | (since the last two days or so) |
| 22:37.55 | Writchie | but recipes are still using SRCDATE |
| 22:38.07 | quicksand | Writchie: fewer and fewer |
| 22:38.34 | rwhitby | there should be very few DATE based ones, and they all should be moved to SRCREV, so point them out for people to fix. Perhaps an email to the list. |
| 22:38.44 | *** join/#openmoko BenC_ (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 22:41.20 | holycow | congrats on getting on digg again |
| 22:41.21 | holycow | :) |
| 22:41.45 | *** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@56.84-48-193.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:42.08 | vallor | quicksand: it does seem to be building (heavily knocking on wood...) |
| 22:42.45 | Writchie | rwhitby: quicksand: task-openmoko-phone seems pretty basic and its breaking libgsm |
| 22:44.42 | vallor | cesarb: yes, I thanked you for your x86_64 patch |
| 22:44.45 | cesarb | Come on, they didn't fix that yet? |
| 22:44.47 | vallor | cesarb: thank you :) |
| 22:44.49 | *** part/#openmoko davi (i=davi@57.Red-88-2-100.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:45.13 | vallor | cesarb: if they did, it within approximately the last 24 hours |
| 22:48.51 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:49.46 | *** part/#openmoko quicksand (n=cwixon@63.81.161.120) |
| 22:53.34 | cesarb | vallor: oh, btw, if you want to debug gsmd, you could try the two debug patches I attached to ombug 766, which add some extra strategic debug output |
| 22:53.47 | vallor | ah, thank you sir |
| 22:54.33 | cesarb | vallor: it's not much, but the one which prints exactly what was sent to the modem (and when) should be the most useful |
| 22:54.59 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@a81-84-127-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 22:55.24 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:55.26 | cesarb | vallor: the other one should never print, else you got unlucky and hit missing code for an uncommon case (which I was too lazy to create a patch to actually fix) |
| 22:55.41 | Writchie|dinner | cesarb: did you ever get cu to work? |
| 22:55.49 | cesarb | Writchie|dinner: nope |
| 22:56.04 | Writchie|dinner | someone reported similar problems earlier |
| 22:56.08 | cesarb | Writchie|dinner: only gsmd's passthrough, which ended up being enough for everything I wanted |
| 22:56.38 | Writchie|dinner | when I get a working om2007.2 i'll do a side by side with om2007.1 |
| 22:56.39 | vallor | cesarb: this is the first "real world" stress test for this new machine I put together -- I've got the mokomakefile building (with 4 cores), and also a kernel (-j2 so it won't mess with the mmf as much as it might) |
| 22:57.22 | cesarb | vallor: watching the heat output in lm-sensors? ;-) |
| 22:57.23 | vallor | oh, to get cu to work, there's a trick with stty |
| 22:57.34 | vallor | cesarb: yeppers, hehe -- using gkrellm |
| 22:58.01 | cesarb | Mine, for some absurdly random reason, increases the temperature for the _motherboard_, but not the CPU, when I'm compiling OE (such that the MB temp ends up higher than the CPU temp!) |
| 22:58.34 | vallor | the individual cores themselves get hot, but cpu temp is nailed at 50C |
| 22:58.37 | vallor | http://ponzo.net/newshawk/hot_mama.jpg |
| 22:58.41 | cesarb | I'm guessing either the sensor is near the CPU power stuff on the motherboard, or else it's either miswired or misconfigured |
| 22:59.14 | vallor | could be -- who is the manufacturer? |
| 22:59.21 | vallor | (for the motherboard) |
| 22:59.30 | *** join/#openmoko doc|work (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 22:59.47 | doc|work | anyone seen this? http://roughlydrafted.com/RD/TechQ307/Entries/2007/8/23_Apple_iPhone_vs_the_FIC_Neo1973_OpenMoko_Linux_Smartphone.html |
| 22:59.50 | cesarb | It's an ASUS M2V |
| 22:59.59 | doc|work | "The phone wasn't custom designed for Linux. It is a Windows Mobile unit codeveloped by the Chinese government as a mass produced people's phone." |
| 23:00.26 | doc|work | indeed |
| 23:00.39 | cesarb | (btw, lm-sensors is IMO a kludge... something like IPMI is WAY better) |
| 23:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.202) |
| 23:01.05 | doc|work | that post is pretty damning |
| 23:01.35 | vallor | doc|work: well, it's a free country -- neo1973 folks have the satisfaction of being correct :) |
| 23:01.44 | vallor | and that advantage, too |
| 23:02.30 | cesarb | doc|work: saying it wasn't custom designed for linux is a half-lie |
| 23:02.59 | cesarb | doc|work: didn't harald say the GSM chip was chosen for having the most standard 07.10/07.10/xx.yy implementation? |
| 23:03.06 | *** join/#openmoko guest_ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 23:03.38 | *** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@56.84-48-193.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:03.42 | cesarb | doc|work: not to forget the BT chip (chosen for its use of hci-usb...) |
| 23:03.51 | doc|work | cesarb: sure, GSM and GPS are closed source. the rest is from scratch using off the shelf stuff. It's definitely not a windows phonw |
| 23:03.58 | doc|work | hmmm, BT support closed too? |
| 23:04.53 | cesarb | doc|work: BT is the phone's third processor (yeah, three processors... AP, GSM, and BT) |
| 23:05.04 | cesarb | doc|work: it runs closed-source bluecore stuff |
| 23:05.23 | cesarb | doc|work: which afaik is a very common BT stack |
| 23:05.24 | doc|work | cesarb: ok, but I mean "codeveloped by the chinese government"? :D |
| 23:06.05 | vallor | ''When you buy a Neo1973, you pay $450 for hardware from FIC, and have no commitment to anyone but the GSM provider “of your choice.” In the US, that means AT&T. The only other US GSM provider is T-Mobile, which doesn't provide GSM coverage on standard frequencies. T-Mobile may possibly be able to resell AT&T GSM service to you on slightly different terms, but that's the extent of your real “freedom” in terms of service.'' |
| 23:06.08 | cesarb | doc|work: I have no idea where the chinese government stuff came from... Smells like it was pulled out of thin air, to put it mildly |
| 23:06.18 | doc|work | yeah |
| 23:06.31 | cesarb | vallor: ah, that's the (very annoying IMO) USian attitude of "all the world is the US" |
| 23:06.42 | vallor | doc|work: do they mean the taiwanese "chinese" government? |
| 23:07.04 | cesarb | vallor: face it, most of the world uses GSM... that particular paragraph shows the author's, to put it mildly, biad |
| 23:07.07 | cesarb | s/biad/bias |
| 23:07.12 | doc|work | vallor: are the taiwanese (who some call china) government involved in FIC? |
| 23:07.17 | vallor | the tone of the piece is ridiculous |
| 23:07.18 | dcordes | there are only 2 providers offering gsm sevices in USA? |
| 23:07.27 | Writchie|dinner | its actually AT&T that uses the non-standard GSM frequencies which where added to GSM for them. |
| 23:07.43 | doc|work | cesarb: "FIC is really nothing to brag about. The company is a knockoff hardware cloner infatuated with Microsoft." it's the fucking pc industry. everyone's a hardware cloner. |
| 23:07.45 | cesarb | Writchie|dinner: wait... you contradicted yourself |
| 23:07.57 | cesarb | Writchie|dinner: if they added them to the GSM standard, they cannot be nonstandard! |
| 23:08.10 | doc|work | "The “free and open Anti-iPhone” rhetoric surrounding the FIC phone is therefore marketing drivel to sell a Chinese Windows Mobile device as a hobbyist kit for phone hackers." |
| 23:08.15 | Writchie|dinner | they are now standard |
| 23:08.15 | doc|work | I smell an iphone fanboi |
| 23:08.39 | vallor | oh brother |
| 23:09.09 | Writchie|dinner | cesarb: just like gsm 450 |
| 23:09.25 | vallor | doc|work: I guess it's also nice that I've never heard of "roughlydrafted.com" -- nor will I ever hear of them again, if that's the quality of their "research".... |
| 23:09.44 | cesarb | Writchie|dinner: they were used before being added to the GSM standard? |
| 23:10.04 | cesarb | vallor: I think I saw that site once before on slashdot |
| 23:10.31 | Writchie|dinner | cesarb: the bands were used for AMPS and US style TDMA |
| 23:10.44 | vallor | cesarb: very true, the false dichotomy draws me in -- I'm not much of an iphone fan -- but ultimately, it can be stated that roughdraft is "wrong." |
| 23:10.47 | doc|work | vallor: with any luck |
| 23:10.53 | cesarb | vallor: http://slashdot.org/tags/roughlydrafted |
| 23:11.00 | vallor | and leave it at that -- unless someone wants to flame 'em |
| 23:11.14 | cesarb | Writchie|dinner: yeah, but were they used for GSM before being added to the standard? |
| 23:11.16 | vallor | er, "correct" them ;P |
| 23:11.41 | doc|work | it's stupid that they're comparing beta stage hardware (missing some of the stuff he's even complaining about - wifi) with alpha software, which hasn't been released, against the iphone which had all of apple's resources behind it |
| 23:11.41 | Writchie|dinner | i don't think so. |
| 23:11.41 | vallor | is there a way to ask the phone what frequency, channel, etc it's on? |
| 23:12.01 | Writchie|dinner | dual-band used to mean 900/1800 and tri-band added 1900 |
| 23:12.14 | Writchie|dinner | 1900 was added for the US IIRC |
| 23:12.27 | Casten | I wouldn't be surprised if roughlydrafted worked for apple. |
| 23:12.37 | Writchie|dinner | GSM folds tried for years to get the US carriers to adopt GSM |
| 23:12.39 | cesarb | vallor: the problem with focusing on being the anti-iphone is that you lose time chasing after the "competitor"'s strenghts, instead of focusing on your own strong points |
| 23:12.45 | Writchie|dinner | but they didn' |
| 23:12.51 | Writchie|dinner | like the idea of an open phone |
| 23:13.22 | vallor | cesarb: that's a good point |
| 23:13.37 | Writchie|dinner | eventually, AT&T wireless decided to go along with GSM as well as Cingular |
| 23:13.38 | doc|work | screw the iphone, I want a decent, open, phone that has wifi and a browser, at that stage, everything else is a bonus |
| 23:13.55 | Writchie|dinner | the alternative was CDMA 2000 |
| 23:14.32 | cesarb | I want a phone (in fact, a gadget, but my phone already uses one gadget "slot") which I can program to do what I want |
| 23:14.38 | cesarb | I want to be able to go on my own crazy tangents |
| 23:14.50 | Writchie|dinner | ditto |
| 23:15.13 | cesarb | Without having to put up with random limitations of whatever OS is there, or with the poorer stability of a reverse-engineering-based linux port |
| 23:15.14 | vallor | cesarb: I'd talking about earlier doing collaboration with (say) your girlfriend, playing music for her while talking on the phone |
| 23:15.40 | doc|work | cesarb: sure, I'm sure there'll be lots of stuff that people develop that I think "cool! I'll be having that thanks!" :) but the basic requirements for me in an ideal phone were browser, wifi,calls + sms |
| 23:15.45 | vallor | something that I think might be possible -- but certainly isn't possible with most mobile phones... |
| 23:16.09 | cesarb | AFAIK, the Zire 72 port (at least last time I read about it) disabled the reset button... because if you used it while on linux, it crashed in such a way you had to wait until the non-removable battery drained before being able to reboot |
| 23:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko Sos`` (n=Sos@esq240.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 23:16.28 | doc|work | ugh |
| 23:16.39 | cesarb | vallor: I want, to, for instance, share parts of my work environment between my computer and phone... |
| 23:16.59 | vallor | do you have a smartphone already? |
| 23:17.14 | cesarb | vallor: so I might be reading a slashdot article, the time goes to get the bus to the ferry to work, and I can continue on the phone, automatically |
| 23:17.35 | vallor | wifi on the ferry? very snazzy |
| 23:17.47 | *** part/#openmoko Sos`` (n=Sos@esq240.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 23:17.56 | Vegar | or just caching? |
| 23:18.03 | cesarb | vallor: nope, only a (closed, slow, crashy JVM) Razr V3 Black and a (closed, annoying to program for, extremly crashy JVM) Zire 72 (the blue one, that which has flaking paint) |
| 23:18.28 | cesarb | vallor: no wifi... just _move_ the memory representation of the page I'm reading to the phone |
| 23:18.39 | vallor | I've been moderately happy with my treo 700p, but it has its "quirks" |
| 23:19.21 | vallor | we just started providing wifi on airport express from santa rosa |
| 23:19.21 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (i=Administ@dsl-245-168-183.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 23:19.33 | *** join/#openmoko MAxi_ (n=MAxi@daimler.farheap.net) |
| 23:20.08 | vallor | there's a wifi gadget that takes one of those pcmcia data cards for a carrier |
| 23:20.22 | vallor | the lappy modem card, don't know what they are called |
| 23:20.53 | vallor | I wonder how SF would feel about open wifi on their ferries? :) :) |
| 23:25.55 | thomasg | finally I got e17 running on my neo :) |
| 23:26.56 | vallor | :) congrats |
| 23:26.58 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
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| 23:29.28 | sunix | cool :) is that good ? |
| 23:29.30 | cesarb | thomasg: scap or it didn't happen ;-) |
| 23:29.48 | thomasg | tomorrow I'll take a video :) |
| 23:29.53 | sunix | :D |
| 23:30.17 | *** join/#openmoko Administrator_ (i=Administ@dsl-245-168-183.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 23:30.19 | thomasg | erm, today I mean (1.30 AM here) |
| 23:30.59 | vallor | e17 = enlightenment, right? |
| 23:31.19 | sunix | i think so |
| 23:33.10 | sunix | is there someone from France there ? |
| 23:33.49 | sunix | when i received my neo, i got to pay a airport tax ... i was wondering if it's normal |
| 23:34.10 | tonyg | sunix, I had to pay £42 customs charge for delivery to the UK |
| 23:34.24 | sunix | :S |
| 23:35.00 | sunix | about 70€ for my airport tax |
| 23:35.01 | cesarb | sunix: be happy the price didn't almost double for you (60% import tax over the whole price including the delivery, then about 18% sales tax OVER the resulting total) |
| 23:36.20 | vallor | man, that character on rough-trade, or whatever that site's name was, reminds me of this one guy, Russinovich, who once claimed in "NT" magazine that Linux didn't have threads |
| 23:36.41 | notserpe | sorry, I missed the link? |
| 23:36.46 | holycow | vallor: url? |
| 23:36.49 | vallor | but it was at a time that, not only did it have a threads, but it also had this new "clone()" call |
| 23:37.26 | *** join/#openmoko Tenso (n=root@32.168.23.215) |
| 23:37.29 | sunix | cesarb: where are u from ? |
| 23:37.38 | vallor | http://roughlydrafted.com/RD/TechQ307/Entries/2007/8/23_Apple_iPhone_vs_the_FIC_Neo1973_OpenMoko_Linux_Smartphone.html |
| 23:38.01 | cesarb | sunix: Brazil |
| 23:38.20 | Lynet | roughlydrafted must be some sort of theonion in disguise, I can find no hter explanation for it. |
| 23:38.31 | Lynet | s/ther/other/ |
| 23:39.09 | vallor | Lynet: well, some people get these wild hairs, and get caught up with the "process", forgetting to (or not knowing to) check their facts |
| 23:39.48 | sunix | cesarb: yep so i'm happy :) |
| 23:39.55 | Lynet | Heh, doesn't even render properly in firefox. |
| 23:41.32 | doc|work | you realise that this makes all of you communists, right?! |
| 23:41.38 | doc|work | COMMUNISTS! |
| 23:41.38 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@m3b5e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 23:41.42 | doc|work | *ahem* |
| 23:42.12 | sunix | 223€for the neo - 53€ for shipping - 70€ for the customs/airport |
| 23:42.28 | Lynet | Wasn't it taiwanese windows-supporters supported by the big red scare? |
| 23:42.48 | doc|work | Lynet: no, chinese windows-supporters |
| 23:42.55 | doc|work | no mention of taiwan at all |
| 23:43.07 | doc|work | taiwan > china |
| 23:43.30 | doc|work | while at the same time, taiwan ~= china, funny how that works :) |
| 23:43.37 | vallor | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1001+Page+Street,+San+Francisco,+CA&sll=38.466105,-122.715947&sspn=0.006552,0.02281&ie=UTF8&ll=37.772699,-122.436651&spn=0.003307,0.011405&z=17&om=1&layer=c&cbll=37.773485,-122.437494 |
| 23:43.51 | vallor | that's where roughlydrafted.com says they are |
| 23:43.53 | Lynet | "OpenMoko was started last year inside of FIC, a Windows PC maker located in Taiwan." |
| 23:43.54 | doc|work | the author's address? |
| 23:43.56 | doc|work | hahaha |
| 23:44.16 | doc|work | Lynet: ah, ok, my bad |
| 23:44.35 | vallor | looks like a one-man band |
| 23:44.37 | doc|work | I have to admit, I scanned, laughed, scanned, laughed, cried a little |
| 23:44.41 | doc|work | then posted it here |
| 23:44.50 | doc|work | scanned a little more, then closed it |
| 23:46.24 | vallor | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Journal/7DBAEF76-AE98-4D20-BB8E-4D82D8713D2E.html |
| 23:46.35 | vallor | there's a pic of the guy doing humanitarian work, or something |
| 23:46.48 | doc|work | yeah |
| 23:47.11 | doc|work | woopdy doo, nice to kids but can't research for shit |
| 23:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:47.52 | doc|work | ^ old |
| 23:48.01 | vallor | doc|work: well, hmm -- seems he also got hit by a truck |
| 23:48.09 | doc|work | vallor: before or after? |
| 23:48.09 | vallor | "oh, so that's what happened to him" |
| 23:48.12 | vallor | 2004 |
| 23:48.16 | vallor | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/sharingairspace.html |
| 23:48.26 | doc|work | explains the bitterness to some extent |
| 23:51.06 | vallor | ''As mirrors and signals and other vehicle peripherals exploded below and behind me in an orderly progression, I tried to recall what all is on the back of a tow truck, and the likelihood of hitting any more of it as my forward progression plateaued and I began my descent approach to the pavement in the middle of Mission Street between Seventh and Eighth, just past the construction site for the grand new Federal Building.'' |
| 23:51.13 | tonyg | wow. |
| 23:51.16 | vallor | I'll cut the guy a break, heh |
| 23:51.32 | tonyg | poor guy |
| 23:52.26 | holycow | quote: Hi, I’m Daniel Eran Dilger, a tech consultant and writer in San Francisco, California. I ride a motorcycle and I like to work on art projects. |
| 23:52.30 | holycow | loool |
| 23:52.36 | holycow | he likes motorcyles |
| 23:53.02 | doc|work | wait, he's still on them? I mean, it'd be one thing if he was disabled or something |
| 23:53.05 | vallor | maybe I could post a comment: "numnumnum, what does a tow truck taste like?" |
| 23:53.06 | holycow | how fucking quaint |
| 23:53.24 | doc|work | actually, no, you know what? even disabled people should do research, fuck him :) |
| 23:53.46 | doc|work | vallor: hah |
| 23:54.45 | vallor | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/about.html <-- but there is how he wants to be known, hmm |
| 23:54.53 | vallor | brb' |
| 23:55.09 | doc|work | I'm actually going to email him tonight |
| 23:55.22 | doc|work | a nice respectful email |
| 23:56.07 | *** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:57.30 | vallor | it's probably best, doc|work |
| 23:57.50 | holycow | this guy is a douche |
| 23:57.53 | rwhitby | there's already been an email exchange with him, and it was copied to the mailing list |
| 23:58.04 | holycow | yet another blogoretard with a paypal donation account |
| 23:58.07 | doc|work | oh! |
| 23:58.07 | rwhitby | this is all so "last week" ;-) |
| 23:58.13 | doc|work | rwhitby: :( |
| 23:58.22 | holycow | let me guess, that didn't get anywhere? |
| 23:59.29 | Lynet | This the thread start? http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg09067.html |
| 23:59.33 | holycow | his only technical skill seems to be apple certified technician |
| 23:59.51 | doc|work | ah ha! apple fan boi! I knew it |
| 23:59.58 | holycow | http://roughlydrafted.com/resume.html |
