| 00:00.17 | mwester | Er, for the benefit of the few who have a copy of that old library, of course. |
| 00:00.17 | cesarb | Maledictus: ouch, you will have a lot of work reimplementing all the drivers... |
| 00:00.32 | tuukkah | i think there already is a wrapper |
| 00:00.34 | mjr | mwester, or we'll end up with a gllin chroot... |
| 00:00.52 | cesarb | mwester: no need for wrapper, the kernel can run both EABI and OABI binaries, you just need a OABI glibc |
| 00:00.55 | tuukkah | ok, well, there's a chroot |
| 00:00.58 | Maledictus | cesarb: at first I can take the GPL'ed ones I think. But documentation for the hw is necessary anyway |
| 00:02.08 | cesarb | Maledictus: for some of the hardware, the sole documentation is the code, some random emails scattered over half a dozen mailing lists, and several wiki pages (which might or might not be correct or relevant to your hardware revision) |
| 00:02.18 | cesarb | Maledictus: for instance, the GTA01 board itself |
| 00:02.57 | Maledictus | thats a little bit sad. But I did not expect the neo to be perfect on first try ;) |
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| 00:03.26 | mjr | it's a small miracle that for the gta-02 gpu there apparently are at least plans to make docs |
| 00:03.49 | Maledictus | mjr: yeah. I was very happy to read that! |
| 00:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171) |
| 00:04.36 | Maledictus | does anyone know if there is also a user manual for the s3c2442? couldn't find a link so far |
| 00:04.37 | cesarb | Maledictus: try grokking the documentation on the power buses (there are about a dozen different ones, the best source is the wiki page) or the audio routing (two audio chips, one of them with a very high amount of toggles and switches, plus it goes to half a dozen chips/plugs/speakers/mics) |
| 00:05.21 | cesarb | Maledictus: I think I read a mailing list post two days ago saying the s3c2442 docs disappeared in the horrible website shuffle the manafacturer made some time ago, and weren't found again yet |
| 00:05.34 | Maledictus | cesarb: I set up this page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_Openness , I hope it will be more complete over time... |
| 00:05.49 | *** part/#openmoko jseghers_ (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 00:06.00 | Maledictus | cesarb: grml, I searched the whole day ;) |
| 00:06.14 | cesarb | Maledictus: the same email said he would either ask them to put the docs back online or ask for permission for redistribution |
| 00:07.13 | Maledictus | redistribution of a doc which has been made publicly available by the copyright holder shouldn't be a problem? |
| 00:07.44 | cesarb | Maledictus: the whole point of copyright is to annoyingly forbid redistribution of something made publicly available |
| 00:08.11 | Maledictus | hehe, you're right |
| 00:08.42 | mjr | indeed... |
| 00:08.59 | cesarb | Maledictus: the bluetooth module will most probably be some standard HCI variant (GTA01 uses hci-usb IIRC) |
| 00:09.32 | roh | bluetooth will be hci-usb, jap |
| 00:09.37 | roh | standard csr module |
| 00:09.39 | cesarb | Maledictus: the vibrator is nothing more than a small motor with an unbalanced weigth, driven by the CPU's PWM... no need for docs on that |
| 00:09.40 | Maledictus | cesarb: sounds pretty standard (sorry I'm pretty new to this embedded world and hw specs, etc.) |
| 00:09.54 | Maledictus | cesarb: yay, sounds good |
| 00:09.59 | cesarb | roh: hci-usb? they won't change the link to uart or something even more random this time? |
| 00:10.01 | Maledictus | I'll correct it |
| 00:10.16 | Maledictus | HCI is an open standard with docs available? |
| 00:10.45 | cesarb | Maledictus: yep |
| 00:10.55 | cesarb | Maledictus: it's in the middle of a very thick PDF IIRC |
| 00:11.09 | cesarb | Maledictus: in the official bluetooth specs |
| 00:11.19 | Maledictus | thats ok. |
| 00:11.31 | rwhitby | it's register-ware |
| 00:11.37 | cesarb | Maledictus: and hci-usb is a hci variant over usb, which is also publicly documented |
| 00:12.00 | Maledictus | wonderful. so at least one wireless thing is open enough ;) |
| 00:12.28 | Maledictus | rwhitby: hi, have you read my proposol for the mokomakefile change? |
| 00:12.41 | mjr | so you can do walkie-talkie over bluetooth ;) |
| 00:12.49 | rwhitby | HCI is at http://www.bluetooth.com/Bluetooth/Learn/Technology/Specifications/ |
| 00:12.52 | cesarb | Maledictus: the touch screen... it's connected directly to either the CPU or the PMU, using the CPU/PMU's touch screen block (probably the CPU in the neo), so you just need the CPU/PMU docs |
| 00:12.58 | Maledictus | rwhitby: thanks! |
| 00:12.59 | rwhitby | Maledictus: you didn't see the CIA message here with the commit? |
| 00:13.19 | Maledictus | rwhitby: sorry, I'm ill and have been in bed most of the time |
| 00:13.30 | cesarb | Maledictus: the touch screen is in fact nothing more than a giant resistor, all the smarts is on the chip it's connected to |
| 00:14.01 | Maledictus | PMU = power management unit?? |
| 00:14.48 | cesarb | Maledictus: JTAG is JTAG (a very common embedded standard; you have to pay for this one, or just check on the web - it's so common there are dozens of places explaining it), but you also need a (IIRC) BSDL file (which describes the chip as viewed by the JTAG); that file should come with the chip's documentation |
| 00:15.02 | cesarb | Maledictus: yeah, the PFC* chip |
| 00:15.28 | rwhitby | and the BSDL for openmoko will be found in the openocd sources |
| 00:16.04 | Maledictus | what is openocd? |
| 00:16.49 | cesarb | Maledictus: the LCD is proprietary, but the most important part driver-side would be the chip controlling it (the interface is not that nonstandard). On the GTA01 it's the CPU itself, on the GTA02 it's the SMedia chip |
| 00:16.51 | Maledictus | does one need a BSDL file for every chip or just for the cpu? |
| 00:17.51 | cesarb | Maledictus: AFAIK you would need at least a partial one for every chip _connected to the same JTAG chain_... There are probably several scan chains on the neo, the only one which would matter would be the one with the CPU on it (which probably has nothing but the CPU on it...) |
| 00:18.14 | Maledictus | ok. |
| 00:18.36 | Maledictus | your help and explanations are very much appreciated btw :D |
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| 00:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@65.190.188.124) |
| 00:19.59 | cesarb | For the SD card you would be able to use some specs the SD guys recently released for the public, or the Sandisk ones the linux kernel guys used earlier (check the comment at the top of the kernel's SD sources) |
| 00:20.13 | cesarb | It's the same as a normal SD card, in fact, perhaps *BSD already have this one |
| 00:20.17 | anrp | or run it in mmc mode, if it's wired up to allow spi |
| 00:20.46 | cesarb | Ah, you would also need a driver for the SD controller... Which would be in the CPU (so, as you can see, the CPU docs are really the most important of them all) |
| 00:21.15 | Maledictus | yes, i think SD could work ootb |
| 00:21.31 | cesarb | And the flash chip should be easy to find, and they are almost all alike (the fact that the CPU can talk to it directly helps) |
| 00:22.04 | cesarb | So, as you can see, it's a lot of work... Each driver individually would be easy (sorta), but there are tens of them! |
| 00:22.09 | Maledictus | yes, that why I spent so many hours searching for it. I found the s3c2410 docs and thought "hopefully the s3c2442 docs are also that good" |
| 00:22.39 | cesarb | Maledictus: they probably will be pretty similar. Most embedded SoCs have docs in that style. Just watch out for the errata. |
| 00:22.50 | Maledictus | cesarb: I hope I will not be alone with the little project ;) |
| 00:23.10 | anrp | yeah... errata... |
| 00:23.43 | anrp | "yeah, you know that great feature that sold this chip? yeah, about that.... it doesn't actually work. but it will in silicon rev 2, don't forget to buy it!" |
| 00:23.48 | cesarb | Maledictus: well, you probably will be alone unless you get some other guys from the BSD camp... Most people here will be too busy trying to make that damn gsmd work ;-) |
| 00:23.54 | Maledictus | I'm currently active in advertising the neo for some other BSD guys. And this weekend will be the biggest BSD conference in europe where I will try to promote it too |
| 00:23.57 | cesarb | anrp: lol |
| 00:24.17 | Maledictus | lool |
| 00:24.36 | anrp | at least they don't flat out say it |
| 00:24.36 | cesarb | Maledictus: and the bootloader? Are you thinking of keeping the linux-derived uboot? |
| 00:24.46 | anrp | uboot is not linux derived, really |
| 00:24.53 | Maledictus | cesarb: Thats ok with me. I happy if no one is angry with me for trying the port and not using linux :) |
| 00:25.05 | anrp | uboot can boot anything that can run on the hw |
| 00:25.16 | cesarb | Maledictus: nah, we won't be angry, we'll just point and laugh ;-) |
| 00:25.17 | anrp | up to and including another os :o |
| 00:25.40 | anrp | like ... windows ce! |
| 00:25.48 | cesarb | anrp: urgh |
| 00:26.18 | Maledictus | boot loader is interesting. ther is this redboot thing which already can boot a freebsd kernel on arm. but I think it's more work to port redboot than to get u-boot boot freebsd |
| 00:26.26 | Maledictus | hehe |
| 00:26.47 | Maledictus | there is already much work in u-boot for the neo |
| 00:27.14 | cesarb | Maledictus: ah, and you ask in the wiki "is that enough" for both audio chips... the docs are more than enough for the chips themselves, but it won't do any good if you don't know how they were wired to the other chips (the audio part has the second most complex routing I've seen in the neo, the first being the power buses...) |
| 00:27.14 | Maledictus | I talked to a guy who used u-boot to boot a freebsd/ppc kernel, so it shouldn't be that hard |
| 00:27.15 | mjr | (the namer of u-boot should be whacked on the head with a newspaper, then bought a beer) |
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| 00:27.38 | cesarb | mjr: ouch... just now I noticed the pun :P |
| 00:27.42 | LittleIdiot | may it be that the version of gsmd coming with the august snapshot is... uhm quite disfunctional? ;) |
| 00:27.44 | Maledictus | cesarb: the routing is described on other wiki pages, at least for GTA01 |
| 00:28.13 | roh | hm.. somewhere i saw fbsd people in the wiki... |
| 00:28.17 | cesarb | LittleIdiot: nah, it just gets confused so easily |
| 00:29.27 | Maledictus | I would be interested if it's easily possible to dual boot linux and freebsd with u-boot. because I think it will be a long time before it is usable enough |
| 00:29.42 | cesarb | Maledictus: well, it's possible to dual-boot linux and linux already |
| 00:29.44 | mwester | LittleIdiot: I personally don't think it's all the fault of gsmd; there seems to be some indication that there is something about the power-up and initialization of the GSM module itself that we don't know or understand just yet. |
| 00:29.48 | cesarb | Maledictus: with the "boot from SD" menu item |
| 00:29.59 | Maledictus | aaaaahh! |
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| 00:30.10 | Maledictus | hum |
| 00:30.22 | cesarb | mwester: agreed, the "unconfusing" patch doesn't make much difference |
| 00:30.33 | Maledictus | I don't have any hardware yet. Just the qemu. It doesn't show me that menu item :( |
| 00:31.06 | roh | Maledictus if you for example boot from sdcard for fbsd and from nand for linux.. yeah.. should work |
| 00:31.15 | Maledictus | sounds great! |
| 00:31.32 | Maledictus | boot from sd just reads the first sector and executes it? |
| 00:31.48 | roh | i just think somebody needs to put in quite some work to add all the drivers to fbsd |
| 00:31.49 | cesarb | Maledictus: no, it reads a file from the SD |
| 00:31.54 | cesarb | Maledictus: which must be formatted as ext2 |
| 00:32.05 | roh | Maledictus nope. uboot knows ext and vfat i think. |
| 00:32.05 | Maledictus | uh |
| 00:32.06 | Maledictus | ok |
| 00:32.18 | Maledictus | ext2 should work. as opposed to jffs2! |
| 00:32.18 | cesarb | Maledictus: look at openmoko/trunk/src/host/devirginator/environment.in, which is where the default uboot environment for the real hardware comes from, and thus where that menu item comes from |
| 00:32.24 | roh | uboot is quite a monster, featurewise |
| 00:32.34 | cesarb | roh: not enough |
| 00:32.45 | Maledictus | yeah! at first I thought the "u" stood for micro ;) |
| 00:33.37 | Maledictus | jffs2 will be a real problem. no docs, just GPL'ed code. no idea if it's possible to integrate into fbsd kernel |
| 00:33.44 | mwester | Gak! it'll be an operating system on its own soon! |
| 00:34.05 | cesarb | Maledictus: but you _need_ either jffs2 or a wear-leveling layer |
| 00:34.17 | cesarb | Maledictus: the flash doesn't have builtin wear leveling and error checking/correction |
| 00:34.28 | Maledictus | netbsd has an 20 year old log-structered FS ;) |
| 00:34.31 | anrp | yay for dum flass |
| 00:34.33 | frma71 | Hmmm... just started openmoko-dates2, consumes 50% cpu by just showing the calendar :I |
| 00:34.40 | cesarb | Maledictus: if you don't add one (either on the filesystem, like jffs2, or in a separate layer), you WILL wear the flash |
| 00:34.57 | Maledictus | cesarb: I know. The SD too? |
| 00:35.04 | anrp | sd does it internally |
| 00:35.07 | anrp | so no worries there |
| 00:35.09 | roh | Maledictus one thing i found out in the last few days, as a feature for the bsdies is: search for a copyright in the register definitions of our drivers.. ;) |
| 00:35.14 | cesarb | Maledictus: a log-structured filesystem is not enough. You also need error correction. |
| 00:35.33 | anrp | sd looks more or less like a normal block device |
| 00:35.36 | roh | Maledictus basically the people writing the fbsd drivers can just copy them. |
| 00:35.52 | bedboi | freelock: are you kidding? |
| 00:35.55 | bedboi | 50%? |
| 00:35.56 | anrp | ..? |
| 00:35.59 | Maledictus | roh? sure? sounds to great to be true.. |
| 00:36.03 | bedboi | s/freelock/frma71 |
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| 00:36.08 | bedboi | (damn autocomplation) |
| 00:36.41 | Maledictus | I should just start with using SD for porting. cheap enough to forget about wearing... |
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| 00:36.45 | freelock | Was wondering who was paging me here ;-) |
| 00:36.49 | roh | Maledictus thats the answer i got. seems to be difficult to apply copyright on something like a tabelaric list of addresses and offsets... |
| 00:37.05 | frma71 | bedboi: Yep, seems to be polling some socket... Well it's only the first release |
| 00:37.06 | bedboi | rwhitby: it's kinda FAN thing |
| 00:37.07 | hhf423 | re |
| 00:37.23 | cesarb | rwhitby: because operating systems are Serious Business |
| 00:37.23 | roh | what the heck. i like gpl, but i think that bsdies should have a fair chance to redo the wheel with their licence |
| 00:37.24 | bedboi | rwhitby: and that's the point of neo i guess. |
| 00:37.31 | bedboi | stealing all linux nerds |
| 00:37.34 | cesarb | (see http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeriousBusiness for a definition of the term) |
| 00:37.46 | Writchie|dinner | cesarb: IIRC from mail with Harold the SD on the GTA02 is hung of the WiFi chip and the WiFi is connected to the SoC SD Port |
| 00:37.55 | bedboi | roh: no man. it's not like that. |
| 00:38.08 | anrp | the... what the hell? |
| 00:38.09 | bedboi | roh: go and tell gnu guys. they will slaughter you |
| 00:38.19 | anrp | sd is off the wifi?? |
| 00:38.37 | cesarb | Writchie|dinner: wow, they managed to make the routing for things EVEN MORE COMPLEX? |
| 00:38.49 | anrp | that is unpossible! |
| 00:38.56 | anrp | unless they meant to say they're on the same SPI bus |
| 00:38.59 | anrp | which could work |
| 00:39.00 | cesarb | Writchie|dinner: so, like, you have to turn on the _wireless_ to read the card? |
| 00:39.01 | roh | bedboi i am strongly pro gpl (v2) but i oppose the practise of just copying whole drivers and making them fit somehow. thats wrong and leads to bad code anyways. |
| 00:39.02 | SpeedEvil | I thought the SD was hung off the display controller |
| 00:39.04 | Maledictus | rwhitby: I'm just very interested in doing stuff like this. I am fine using linux though |
| 00:39.30 | Maledictus | I have enough linux machines, it's not like I only use freebsd |
| 00:39.33 | rwhitby | Maledictus: yeah, you have shown no fanatical outburts as far as I have seen :-) |
| 00:39.48 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: Maybe you're right and i'm not recalling it correctly - let me google my mail |
| 00:39.49 | bedboi | roh: yep, that does not have nothing to do with the license you are applying |
| 00:39.50 | roh | bedboi on the other side its totally ok to read a gpl driver and copy only the register-mappings and implement it again, with proper architecture, fitting to the framework the os gives. |
| 00:40.05 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: perhaps the SD is hung off the wifi which is hung off the display chip which is hung off... |
| 00:40.22 | anrp | hung off of the touchscreen of course |
| 00:40.24 | bedboi | roh: yep because you are rewriting it |
| 00:40.31 | anrp | which is hung off the lanyard, which is hung off your neck |
| 00:40.37 | anrp | not sure what that has to do with anything though |
| 00:40.57 | Maledictus | roh: I'm happy you see it this way. I have heard harsh words when I told some people about my idea |
| 00:41.09 | cesarb | rwhitby: it's like sports (ok, sports fanaticism also don't make much sense) |
| 00:41.09 | roh | bedboi which also works into the other direction. reading a bsd driver and writing a gpl one. as long as you don't copy code its fine. |
| 00:41.12 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: ar6k module will be connected via sdio with 4 data pins |
| 00:41.18 | anrp | register mapping is in the same class of work as a telephone book |
| 00:41.32 | anrp | no creativity -> almost impossible to assert copyright |
| 00:41.33 | bedboi | roh: that's the cool part of all the open source |
| 00:41.38 | bedboi | you can learn a lot |
| 00:41.39 | anrp | which gives it equiv usability as public domain |
| 00:41.42 | cesarb | anrp: "dial 555-1234 for register 1..." |
| 00:41.45 | Writchie | microSD slot will attach to the glamo3362 SD/MMC controller |
| 00:41.51 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: I know - I thought I heard that the SD bus comes from the accel chip though. |
| 00:41.59 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right |
| 00:42.01 | SpeedEvil | I see. |
| 00:42.10 | Writchie | i guess the 3362 must be dma |
| 00:42.19 | anrp | no docs for the chip ;/ |
| 00:42.35 | roh | Maledictus its a fine line with the gpl/bsd stuff and porting between it. and there were some harsh words in the recent history due to some idiot stepping over the line and stealing basically all important code from some reverse-engineering based brmc driver i think. but to be fair, i like pluralism. |
| 00:43.27 | roh | same with xine and mplayer/ffmpeg. its positive to have some concurrent developments which merge features and bugfixes either way. its just important to keep to some (not too complicated) rules. |
| 00:43.54 | Lynet | mwester: Feist vs Rural. The telephone directory itself is not covered by copyright. |
| 00:44.17 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: so SD will need new u-boot drivers as well as kernel drivers |
| 00:44.27 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 00:44.30 | frma71 | Can anyone recomend a filemanager that is usable on the neo ? |
| 00:44.31 | Maledictus | roh: yep. I think Open Source is mainly about choice. And I like to have good choices :) |
| 00:44.38 | Writchie | our boy harald gonna be busy |
| 00:44.49 | hhf423 | frma71: gpe-filemanager |
| 00:44.59 | mwester | Hmmm. So apparently the (c) symbol is a ruse by the publisher, or it must cover some other part of the publication, then, I gues... |
| 00:45.03 | frma71 | hhf423: tnx! |
| 00:45.18 | cesarb | Writchie: ...which means we must fix gsmd to give him some slack... |
| 00:45.45 | Writchie | i've decided to just go ahead with with d-bus layer direct to the chip |
| 00:45.48 | hhf423 | frma71: and it should be already in one of the repositories, e.g. in the ScaredyCat repro, so you can just ipkg install it |
| 00:46.16 | Writchie | cesarb: i'll have some docs and be in a position where others can help if they want in about two weeks. |
| 00:46.17 | hhf423 | cesarb: lots of beer await the one who fixes gsmd |
| 00:46.19 | Lynet | mwester: To be exact, the data in the directory (names, numbers, etc..) are pure facts and not covered by (C). The typesetting etc might be covered by (C). As long as you only copy the facts, you should be safe in the US. |
| 00:46.32 | mwester | Writchie: I've been toying with the idea of creating an in-kernel virtual tty device for it, to conceal the line speed, flow control, and the console mux functions. |
| 00:47.04 | Writchie | there are differring opinions kernel vs. user space - i am in the user-space camp |
| 00:47.11 | cesarb | Lynet: the US is not the whole of the world. |
| 00:47.17 | Writchie | although this is not a fundamental detail. |
| 00:47.29 | hhf423 | Lynet: mwester we had a case in .de a few years back. It was not ok to scan the phonebook and make a cd out of it, but is was ok to have chinese workers read it and type it into a computer again |
| 00:47.31 | frma71 | Is the sms support implemented in gsmd yet ? |
| 00:47.49 | Writchie | their is some crude support |
| 00:47.55 | mwester | Writchie: it would be good to get it working in user-space before we pursue any in-kernel effort! |
| 00:48.03 | Writchie | mwester: yes |
| 00:48.08 | cesarb | mwester: as a set of perl scripts! |
| 00:48.14 | hhf423 | frma71: for the moment the most elegant way to do sms is using smstool, see wiki |
| 00:48.20 | SpeedEvil | what working /me missed it |
| 00:48.21 | Lynet | cesarb: True, in EU databases are covered by sui generis. It is not copyright per se, but a 'related right' is given to those that assemble a database of facts. |
| 00:48.21 | mwester | Perl - good idea. |
| 00:48.44 | Writchie | hhf423: not in chinese |
| 00:48.50 | mwester | Performance and overhead is secondary to just getting it working, and Perl has reasonable serial support and excellent pattern matching. |
| 00:48.51 | Writchie | ;) |
| 00:49.25 | cesarb | mwester: as long as we don't blow the flash... how large is perl nowadays? |
| 00:49.29 | frma71 | hhf423: Ok, looks like it is supported by gsmd and libgsmd then. |
| 00:49.38 | frma71 | What about GPRS support in gsmd ? |
| 00:49.47 | cesarb | frma71: none |
| 00:49.49 | hhf423 | Writchie: in chinese it would be even see of an issue because a translation here has a copyright of it own |
| 00:49.51 | mwester | Perl is huge, but if you remove all but the modules you need, you can get it down to a MByte or two... |
| 00:50.10 | hhf423 | frma71: yes, you could sms via libgsmd-tool |
| 00:50.16 | Writchie | hhf423: i mean Chinese SMS |
| 00:50.32 | hhf423 | frma71: gprs see "manually using gprs" in the wiki |
| 00:50.53 | hhf423 | frma71: there are scripts there. for a gui based gprs see "settingsgui" |
| 00:51.18 | mwester | Regarding the GSM itself, though, if roh could get one of us the docs for the device, that would greatly help figure out the initial power-up sequence. I'd be willing to sign a non-disclosure (provided it was reasonable, of course). |
| 00:51.26 | frma71 | hhf423: Tried that, but I'd like to be able to receive calls/sms while keeping my gprs connection, so I guess that support need to be in gsmd ! |
| 00:52.11 | hhf423 | frma71: probably. but that would be a nice feature of course |
| 00:52.16 | Writchie | you pretty much have to use the mux and several channels to do things reliably and sanely |
| 00:52.33 | SpeedEvil | Basically - as I understand it and in practice in my experience, doing echo 0 then echo 1 to the power_on file on the GSM module, with 1s seperating them works fine |
| 00:52.39 | Maledictus | roh: could you give me an example of a filename where I can find those register definitions? |
| 00:52.51 | cesarb | frma71: the mux is supposed to be in the kernel, according to harald |
| 00:53.20 | Writchie | cesarb: premature optimization is the root of all evil |
| 00:53.29 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-62.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 00:53.31 | Writchie | quote from harald |
| 00:53.40 | Writchie | stolen from knuth |
| 00:53.47 | frma71 | cesarb: Ah, thats how its supposed to work. |
| 00:53.48 | bedboi | Writchie: i definitely agree |
| 00:53.58 | Maledictus | ha, theres another bsd guy :) |
| 00:54.06 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z71d8.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:54.12 | Maledictus | daniel_bergamini: will you be in copenhagen this weekend? |
| 00:54.17 | cesarb | Writchie: well, for all i care, you can do the mux in userspace, in javascript, as long as it works reliably and doesn't drain too much power |
| 00:54.38 | roh | Maledictus nearly all .h files which openmoko adds for hardware drivers |
| 00:54.47 | roh | Maledictus linux-2.6.22.5-moko/include/asm-arm/arch-s3c2410/gta01.h for example |
| 00:55.08 | Maledictus | which should be somewhere under openmoko/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches ? |
| 00:55.22 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-62.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 00:55.27 | Maledictus | gta01-core.patch got it :) |
| 00:55.47 | roh | Maledictus ack. also gta02-core.patch has some headers |
| 00:55.47 | Writchie | the mux has its own power up power down. perhaps it's not implemented correctly - we'll find out soon. |
| 00:55.59 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, ping |
| 00:57.32 | mwester | Writchie: what mux speak you of? Audio? |
| 00:57.34 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: SYN|ACK |
| 00:57.46 | Writchie | mwester: gsm 7.10 |
| 00:57.57 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, ACK :) |
| 00:58.46 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, I'd like to ask you a question about MokoMakefile |
| 00:58.47 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, is it you who did it, right? |
| 00:59.08 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, well, more than a question it is a problem |
| 00:59.19 | frma71 | cesarb: Agree, as long as i can use pppd on one of the cannels. |
| 00:59.31 | cesarb | Writchie: doesn't the whole thing have its own PM chip? |
| 00:59.45 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: yes |
| 01:00.07 | Writchie | cesarb: AFAIK the calypso handled its own PM. |
| 01:00.17 | Writchie | but you tell it to enter low power state. |
| 01:00.20 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, the openmoko tree is being checked out from the root of svn projects |
| 01:00.30 | Writchie | it still needs to monitor network |
| 01:00.40 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, and that checks out the whole trunk plus any other branch created |
| 01:00.57 | Writchie | power consumption isn't too bad in this mode, 30ma i think |
| 01:01.08 | frma71 | Anyone tried to run some java (jme) on the neo ? |
| 01:01.25 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, if it is kept this way it will grow exponentially as people start creating branches |
| 01:01.35 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: more like 15mA - with the amp off |
| 01:01.46 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: even better |
| 01:01.56 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 01:02.02 | Writchie | about 40mw |
| 01:02.07 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, was this intended? |
| 01:03.04 | Writchie | cesarb: when you are going idle you put the mux into low power mode - if activity comes in it sends flags until you restablish link - all channelization remains intact |
| 01:03.29 | hhf423 | _ |
| 01:04.18 | Writchie | cesarb: when it wakes up IIRC it will singnal an RTS which is used to wakeup the SoC from deep sleep. |
| 01:04.19 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: that's how the build process was specified by the OM core team at the start. MokoMakefile simply automated that without changing any structure or semantics. |
| 01:04.29 | Writchie | cesarb: which AFAIK is not implemented yet |
| 01:04.33 | rwhitby | There is an intention to reduce it to just trunk/src in the future. |
| 01:05.33 | mwester | Is the RTS line at all attached in such a fashion that it can generate the interrupt necessary to wake the CPU? |
| 01:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko milo_ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-076-231-000.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:05.54 | Writchie | mwester: it is at least in GTA02 and I think also GTA01 |
| 01:05.58 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, ok. So the things outside trunk are needed by OM packages? |
| 01:06.10 | rwhitby | no |
| 01:06.17 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 01:06.24 | Writchie | unfortunately, the same is not true for Bluetooth |
| 01:06.31 | Writchie | which moves backwards in GTA02 |
| 01:07.09 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 01:07.15 | Ghiottone | I changed it to checkout only trunk/ and built some packages. I had no problem. |
| 01:07.34 | rwhitby | right |
| 01:07.41 | Ghiottone | I think I'll leave it this way for a while. |
| 01:07.58 | rwhitby | the trick is how to do it so that it happens automatically for people who already have a checkout. |
| 01:08.08 | Ghiottone | I save around 50MB of disk space :) |
| 01:08.15 | Ghiottone | thats easy |
| 01:08.21 | Ghiottone | svn info openmoko |
| 01:08.46 | Ghiottone | will print http://svn.openmoko.org/ for people who did the whole checkout |
| 01:09.00 | Ghiottone | and http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk for the others. |
| 01:09.39 | Ghiottone | if it is the first case, doing a cd openmoko ; svn switch http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk will do the change |
| 01:10.00 | Ghiottone | (I am the subversion man at work ;) |
| 01:10.57 | Ghiottone | I can create a patch for the makefile if you want |
| 01:11.06 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@c-69-143-234-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:11.11 | rwhitby | please do - put it in the setup target |
| 01:11.39 | tuukkah | wow feedreader works |
| 01:11.42 | cesarb | Ghiottone: be careful, there's a symlink at build/conf IIRC, and the qemu stuff also symlinks to the openmoko tree |
| 01:11.50 | Ghiottone | setup-openmoko ? |
| 01:11.54 | cesarb | Ghiottone: (for flash.sh IIRC) |
| 01:12.55 | Ghiottone | cesarb, oh right! I'll look there carefully |
| 01:12.58 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-62.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 01:13.05 | Ghiottone | cesarb, thanks |
| 01:14.20 | cesarb | Ghiottone: in fact, the whole qemu build probably depend on the tree (since an update to the openmoko tree, without any clobber-qemu, will recompile just what's changed) |
| 01:14.29 | cesarb | s/depend/depends/ |
| 01:16.04 | Ghiottone | mmm I see. maybe it's just a matter of changing the symlinks |
| 01:16.16 | Ghiottone | or better, of finding them all |
| 01:16.25 | hhf423 | oh, gsmd is, like, less than 11 pages? |
| 01:17.14 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.44.95) |
| 01:17.26 | Ghiottone | hhf423, documentation? |
| 01:17.45 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, I'll give it a try tomorrow and let you know if I have success |
| 01:18.06 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: code of gsmd.c |
| 01:18.24 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, about the packages you asked me to include in OE (it was you, right?) |
| 01:18.40 | Ghiottone | hhf423, oh. not that much |
| 01:18.58 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: yep |
| 01:19.04 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: no, I somehow got the idea that it was a monster |
| 01:19.39 | cesarb | Ghiottone: yeah, it's probably just changing symlinks (you'd just have to find them all) |
| 01:19.54 | cesarb | Ghiottone: if "make all" succeeds from an empty tree, you probably got all the symlinks which matter |
| 01:20.00 | hhf423 | tuukkah: why not use midori? |
| 01:20.23 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, I filed a bug for ipkgorphan, it's #2954 |
| 01:21.11 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 01:21.22 | Ghiottone | cesarb, I have not got a computer powerful enough to try it. A from scratch build requires around a week on my pc |
| 01:21.34 | tuukkah | hhf423, what's that? |
| 01:22.16 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, and I'm working on fixing last issues with recipes for SettingsGUI and SMSTool (new entry) |
| 01:22.48 | bedboi | bye |
| 01:22.49 | *** part/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@129.24.27.25) |
| 01:23.00 | hhf423 | cesarb: Writchie: I mean, have a look at gsmd.c, thats chickenshit :-) reimplementation in perl to fix it should not be a big issue |
| 01:23.01 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: one thing would be to make sure that the package names fit in with the rest of OE/OM naming conventions |
| 01:23.17 | hhf423 | tuukkah: a browser, based on webkit |
| 01:23.35 | hhf423 | tuukkah: you can ipkg install it from teh ScaredyCat repository |
| 01:23.41 | Writchie | hhf423: present libgsmd/gsmd is only a fraction of what is needed |
| 01:23.54 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, how? |
| 01:23.57 | hhf423 | Writchie: why is that? |
| 01:24.16 | tuukkah | hhf423, it compiled already :-) |
| 01:24.22 | cesarb | Ghiottone: you can get someone else to try your patch ;-) |
| 01:24.29 | hhf423 | Writchie: for what is needed in total or for what is needed to just make calls reliably? |
| 01:24.38 | Writchie | hhf423: in total |
| 01:24.46 | Writchie | making a call is trivial |
| 01:25.16 | cesarb | Writchie: so trivial it works on first try when turning on the phone? |
| 01:25.17 | hhf423 | Writchie: well, you know: any big working system has once started as a small working system. |
| 01:25.21 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: well, the question is whether settingsgui is specific to openmoko (and therefore one could make a case that it should have an openmoko- prefix), or it is a generic settings gui which will handle all sorts of embedded devices ... |
| 01:25.29 | Ghiottone | cesarb, yeah:) |
| 01:25.52 | hhf423 | Writchie: so lets have the ability to make and receive calls reliably and then add to it |
| 01:25.53 | Writchie | hhf423: absolutely untrue |
| 01:26.09 | rwhitby | I've already posted a recipe for reliable calls. |
| 01:26.25 | Writchie | you need a foundation and architecture that lets you build the whole building. |
| 01:26.31 | Writchie | then you build the first floor |
| 01:26.38 | Writchie | other floors can take much longer. |
| 01:26.43 | hhf423 | Writchie: well, thats a law of systemantics |
| 01:26.50 | anrp | then, if you're a software engineer, you skip right to the rooftop pool! |
| 01:26.57 | anrp | then you grudgingl fill in the middle... |
| 01:26.59 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, got the point. I think I saw it running on other OM devices... but I may be wrong |
| 01:27.05 | Writchie | anrp: and then start over again |
| 01:27.22 | anrp | true |
| 01:27.37 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: but since you are the author, you have full rights to choose any name you want. Just giving you my opinion from an OpenEmbedded packager's point of view. |
| 01:27.53 | Writchie | unfortunately, writing specs and architecture is not as much fun as programming |
| 01:29.01 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-165-13.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:29.27 | hhf423 | Writchie: where would I find existing architecture documents? |
| 01:29.43 | Writchie | hhf423: there are none |
| 01:29.48 | Writchie | you have to read the code |
| 01:29.50 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, I am not the author of SettingsGUI. I'm already writing him an email asking if he wants a name change |
| 01:30.01 | anrp | hehe |
| 01:30.05 | hhf423 | Writchie: ah, right. of course. |
| 01:30.31 | hhf423 | my bad |
| 01:30.39 | Writchie | as you can see there is not much really there and its add hoc. |
| 01:31.19 | rwhitby | Ghiottone: make sure you ask in the same way as I have done - it is a humble suggestion, not a demand. |
| 01:32.09 | Writchie | hhf423: i can't make gsmd work because i think its approach is flawed - i'd rather spend time defining what I think is a better way and implemented the first part of it. |
| 01:32.19 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, could you tell me if there is a problem with bug 2954 or if it is ok? |
| 01:32.38 | Ghiottone | rwhitby, sure. I'm attaching the logs :) he also is in this channel |
| 01:33.15 | anrp | how is it a flawed approach? |
| 01:33.17 | anrp | (curious) |
| 01:33.21 | hhf423 | Writchie: hmm, can you elaborate on that? whats the approach and why is it flawed? I have problems to derive an approach from the source |
| 01:34.07 | roh | hm.. i fried my bike |
| 01:34.26 | SpeedEvil | Oh no! |
| 01:34.27 | roh | will need to buy some IRFB4710 tomorrow |
| 01:35.08 | Maledictus | whats that? |
| 01:35.13 | anrp | mosfet ftw |
| 01:36.15 | roh | my bike has a brushless hub motor which needs 3-phase power. today is had water in the somehow not watertight case and that was it.. 'the magic smoke has left the device' |
| 01:36.24 | anrp | oh no |
| 01:36.28 | anrp | not the magic smoke D: |
| 01:36.42 | anrp | i let that out of a wire at my desk by mistake |
| 01:36.53 | anrp | 14awg does not handle 300 amps for very long ~_~ |
| 01:36.56 | roh | but hey.. i can go out and shop the parts for a few euros.. no real problem for a soldering-iron-terrorist |
| 01:37.38 | hhf423 | roh: I bet you learned that soldering in a terrorist camp! |
| 01:38.10 | SpeedEvil | Only environmental terrorists use solder containing lead. |
| 01:38.11 | Writchie | hhf423: present approach uses a library that talks over unix sockets to gsmd on one side, which will need a d-bus layer above duplicating the same thing for two round trips and then worries on the other side about high cost of a user-space mux versus kernel mux for 115Kbps |
| 01:38.17 | hhf423 | then again, visiting terrorist camps is not yet illegal in .de |
| 01:38.47 | Ghiottone | ok really late here. nite all |
| 01:38.59 | Writchie | hhf423: present approach ignores existing fax, ppp, and other stuff as well as bluetooth FAX, DUN, etc. |
| 01:39.01 | Maledictus | gn8 :9 |
| 01:39.02 | hhf423 | Writchie: ah, so there comes in your comment about doing dbus right to it |
| 01:39.05 | hhf423 | ? |
| 01:39.27 | tuukkah | hhf423, midori's cool but how do i get to enter a uri? |
| 01:39.29 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: good night |
| 01:40.00 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 01:40.13 | hhf423 | tuukkah: no idea, so far I always went via google, which it loads on start |
| 01:42.31 | tuukkah | ok |
| 01:42.41 | Writchie | hhf423: i think there are two camps - one says neo is a portable desktop that talks ip over wifi or the mythical mobile broadband - the other camp believes that neo could be the best implementation of a handset |
| 01:43.22 | Writchie | hhf423: there is plenty of room for both camps |
| 01:44.52 | hhf423 | Writchie: doing dbus to gsm would a) eliminate some possible breakpoints and b) allow other apps to use the data announced by the gsm radio, so I think thats a good idea |
| 01:45.04 | Writchie | hhf423: i would like to see a stable high level i/f that MMI apps can code to for at least the simple functions so that we don't create un-needed legacies. |
| 01:45.29 | Writchie | having every app talking to the modem is chaos |
| 01:45.54 | Writchie | as is "watcher" apps to restart it after it crashes and other such nonsense |
| 01:46.31 | hhf423 | Writchie: err, I more though about apps listening to what gsm says, like location, cell-id, operator etc. not talking to |
| 01:46.48 | Writchie | hhf423: i wasn't referring to your comment |
| 01:47.01 | hhf423 | ah, ok |
| 01:47.05 | Writchie | yes, many listeners can note the events |
| 01:47.11 | Writchie | and changes of state |
| 01:47.17 | hhf423 | exactly |
| 01:47.34 | Writchie | and with d-bus they can do it with any bindings, glib, python, whatever |
| 01:47.54 | Writchie | even shell scipts |
| 01:48.03 | Writchie | and the d-bus part is already there |
| 01:48.45 | Writchie | unfortunately, glib free d-bus is a bit of a bear and i'm trying to do it without imposing a requirement for glib |
| 01:49.11 | roh | hhf423 i think nobody will hinder you porting gsmd and libgsmd to dbus, just for trying it ou |
| 01:49.12 | roh | t |
| 01:49.35 | roh | basically thats what i would want to see... the best way of having a point is having a working prototype |
| 01:50.04 | Writchie | roh: working prototype plus some architectural and api docs |
| 01:50.14 | hhf423 | roh: what hinders me is not nobody but my coding abilities |
| 01:50.18 | frma71 | True, "Talk is cheap, show me the code" (Linus T) |
| 01:50.32 | frma71 | :) |
| 01:50.45 | anrp | linus |
| 01:50.47 | anrp | who's that ? |
| 01:51.07 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-49-188.37-151.net24.it) |
| 01:51.14 | Maledictus | some guy who once got bitten by a penguin |
| 01:51.20 | Writchie | linux had the benefit of existing API docs |
| 01:51.24 | hhf423 | roh: and I hope that this is not the OpenMoko position: "Reliable calls? -- thats a user option: if the user wants it, the user writes it." |
| 01:51.25 | anrp | must've been painful |
| 01:51.37 | roh | hhf423 no.. of course not. |
| 01:52.03 | mwester | Roh: can you tap someone on the shoulder to review the latest workaround for bug 788, and commit the "stty -crtscts" workaround to the /etc/init.d/gsmd changes if they agree that is a reasonable workaround for the short-term? [http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788] |
| 01:52.13 | roh | hhf423 its just that at the moment this is not a phone. its a embedded development kit in progress. we will complete it. just takes time |
| 01:52.42 | hhf423 | roh: I can see no progress on gsmd |
| 01:52.48 | Writchie | i've had reliable calls and reliable operations for days on om2007.1 from command line. |
| 01:53.10 | hhf423 | roh: I can see no plan to complete gsmd |
| 01:53.48 | anrp | no written plan. you mean? |
| 01:53.53 | anrp | or no intention? |
| 01:53.56 | mwester | Then we should storm the citadel, and write it ourselves. We just need a few docs, I think... |
| 01:54.03 | Writchie | hhf423: people will keep hacking gsmd and eventually it will work. |
| 01:54.03 | roh | hhf423 you can see no progress because the company is still much smaller than you obviously think. people need to serialize tasks |
| 01:54.04 | frma71 | What worries me is the frequency of the commits and the fact that there are no commits during weekends :I |
| 01:54.15 | anrp | worries? |
| 01:54.18 | anrp | ...why? |
| 01:54.27 | anrp | maybe they want time off |
| 01:54.28 | Writchie | hhf423: or it will be replaced by a differnt approach |
| 01:54.36 | mwester | frma71: That's the time I've had the most luck getting a build done! |
| 01:54.36 | anrp | i'm certainly not going to hold them to working weekends |
| 01:54.46 | hhf423 | roh: less than 30 people I hear, no? |
| 01:54.49 | roh | hhf423 and at the moment it is more important to complete the still in progress shipment of gta01 and complete work on the gta02 hardware to get it into mp |
| 01:54.57 | roh | hhf423 ack. |
| 01:55.05 | rwhitby | yeah, sunday nights are the time when I get calls working again ;-) |
| 01:55.07 | Writchie | roh: I agree |
| 01:55.22 | frma71 | anrp: Thats the problems, they seem to have a life :I |
| 01:55.27 | Writchie | i'd like to see less commits |
| 01:56.30 | Writchie | at this point i'd rather see harald insuring that the hardware, kernel drivers, u-boot, etc. are right. |
| 01:56.33 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-62.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 01:56.43 | Writchie | which is what he is doing. |
| 01:58.14 | Writchie | the only reason the phone part is working today is that the P1 hardware shipped months late. |
| 01:58.20 | Writchie | s/is/is not/ |
| 01:58.22 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea_ (n=paroneay@216-80-91-134.grn-bsr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:58.51 | hhf423 | I think we need someone who stand up and makes comitments on milestones. like "reliable calls end of october". Even relative milestones would be ok, like "reliable calls four weeks after shipping batch 3 of gta01" |
| 01:59.40 | hhf423 | because if you do not create milestones, you lose sight. you do not make any sacrifices at all and then go nowhere |
| 02:00.17 | Writchie | hhf423: well you will surely be able to make reliable calls and sms by end of October through the d-bus |
| 02:00.23 | hhf423 | at the moment, we do not even know if "reliable phone calls" is in the top ten list of priorities. |
| 02:00.40 | Writchie | hhf423: but it may not use the present libgsm/gsmd |
| 02:01.43 | Writchie | hhf423: there will be another few months required of data collection from early adopters to refine things for all networks. |
| 02:02.22 | Writchie | hhf423: openmoko is not doing too bad as mobile development goes. |
| 02:02.33 | hhf423 | Writchie: months? I think if we tell people what data to collect, we'll have that in days :-) |
| 02:03.15 | Writchie | it typically takes a couple of months to get it and digest it. |
| 02:03.18 | mwester | There's the catch: we won't know what data to tell people to collect until we begin collecting it, and discovering anomolies. |
| 02:03.35 | *** join/#openmoko jserv2 (n=jserv@linux3.cc.ntu.edu.tw) |
| 02:03.52 | Writchie | mwester: much more needs to working. |
| 02:04.12 | Writchie | SMS works across many different languages for example. |
| 02:04.38 | Writchie | chinese SMS, 13 gsm languages, arabic, etc. |
| 02:04.49 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 02:05.01 | mwester | Yep. So even a feature-limited initial version of something will be good -- it will let us gather meaningful datapoints on what works and doesn't sooner. |
| 02:05.26 | *** join/#openmoko orpheus (n=scott@lawn-143-215-206-54.lawn.gatech.edu) |
| 02:05.32 | Writchie | mwester: absolutely, as long as the architecture is sound. |
| 02:06.02 | mwester | So from that point-of-view, the current gsmd is a good thing -- we've learned lots of things that *don't* work with it. Perhaps it *is* time to re-implement it. |
| 02:06.02 | Writchie | actually, its either to get gsmd working right with the mux implemented because it simplifies many interactions. |
| 02:06.28 | Writchie | mwester: i think of it as a concept demo. |
| 02:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953AC73.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:06.38 | Writchie | i learned much more from talking to the modem directly. |
| 02:08.08 | Writchie | for any normally person, digesting gsm takes many months of study. |
| 02:09.16 | Writchie | i used to program a hayes 300 even before the AT command set was invented |
| 02:09.24 | Writchie | from an S100 bus |
| 02:09.30 | mwester | It looks like the Hayes command set. Can't be that hard! ;) |
| 02:09.32 | Writchie | with 64K RAM in the system |
| 02:10.01 | hhf423 | Hayes did invent the AT command set, did they not? |
| 02:10.16 | Writchie | not dennis but an engineer that worked for him |
| 02:10.48 | Writchie | it means eat my money |
| 02:10.50 | hhf423 | Writchie: right, I meant hayes as in company, not person |
| 02:10.58 | mwester | It wasn't even a very good way to control a modem, but once again marketing beat technology. |
| 02:11.22 | hhf423 | +++ |
| 02:11.24 | hhf423 | :-) |
| 02:11.30 | Writchie | mwester: it was better than the autodial at the time which used an oddball interface |
| 02:11.31 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-115-177.37-151.net24.it) |
| 02:11.56 | baird | Writchie: did Hayes modems to run off a FORTH firmware, or was that just an Australian thing for the compatible modems over here..? |
| 02:12.26 | orpheus | random question, a bit more grounded: |
| 02:12.37 | Writchie | FORTH was used on some S100 systems at the time. |
| 02:12.40 | Writchie | talk about code |
| 02:12.46 | hhf423 | Writchie: what was good was the (more or less) standardization on AT command set |
| 02:12.47 | orpheus | has anyone else had a problem where, if they ssh into the neo while it's booting, it locks up? |
| 02:13.04 | orpheus | i've done it thrice now |
| 02:13.19 | orpheus | no sshing, no lockup; sshing, lockup |
| 02:13.39 | Writchie | orpheus: what exactly do you mean by sshing. |
| 02:13.40 | orpheus | and it sounds pitiful when it locks up while playing that intro sound |
| 02:14.01 | Writchie | orpheus: leaving the usb attached? |
| 02:14.03 | orpheus | well, twice i was ssh'ed in, once i was scping a file over |
| 02:14.11 | orpheus | yeah, over usb |
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| 02:14.29 | orpheus | am i not supposed to let it sit on usb while booting? |
| 02:14.56 | orpheus | i suspect it's just that i was trafficing over the usbnet stuffs, and that did it |
| 02:15.21 | Writchie | orpheus: I think the kernel re-inits the USB |
| 02:15.49 | Writchie | u-boot looses control for good when it turns over to the kernel |
| 02:15.59 | orpheus | yeah |
| 02:16.10 | orpheus | i'm actually getting ssh'ed in before X starts us |
| 02:16.12 | orpheus | *up |
| 02:16.18 | technil | orpheus: i usually get no response to a ssh request until the unit is fully booted |
| 02:16.38 | Writchie | orpheus: it should work but there may be some race condition |
| 02:16.48 | orpheus | and then, as X comes up, it'll lock up (while playing that happy little sound clip), and make some awful racket |
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| 02:17.18 | technil | cesarb: i also lost startup sound and i am having alsamixer trouble after ipkg update && ipkg upgrade |
| 02:17.19 | jonnymac | wow |
| 02:17.25 | jonnymac | I'm a linux baby |
| 02:17.38 | orpheus | it just struck me as odd that it happened only while it was booting, but that it happened long after the boot got handed over to to userspace |
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| 02:18.10 | orpheus | technil: i've got sound, it's just that the kernel locks up mid-sound |
| 02:18.38 | orpheus | alright, just making sure it wasn't some common thing |
| 02:18.47 | Writchie | the gadget driver is in the kernel and prolly starts long before init has finished starting xinetd or whatever responds to ssh |
| 02:18.57 | orpheus | yeah |
| 02:19.36 | orpheus | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:19.43 | orpheus | but yeah |
| 02:20.06 | orpheus | it's too weird of a problem to worry about too much right now |
| 02:20.39 | hhf423_ | ok, back to bed, tty all later, good night |
| 02:20.45 | orpheus | but i was half expecting "oh, that... yeah, don't traffic on the usb too much while booting" |
| 02:21.00 | spikebike | speaking of which |
| 02:21.05 | spikebike | oops |
| 02:21.31 | orpheus | that was an odd time to say oops |
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| 02:26.13 | orpheus | i have two dfu-capable devices on my system. I'm always tempted to flash the other one with an linux kernel, just to see what will happen |
| 02:27.20 | Writchie | orpheus: what is the other device |
| 02:27.30 | orpheus | i don't know |
| 02:27.47 | Writchie | some BT adapters use DFU |
| 02:28.19 | orpheus | or whatever responds to ssh |
| 02:28.20 | orpheus | <orpheus> yeah |
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| 02:28.23 | orpheus | errrrr |
| 02:28.33 | orpheus | Found Runtime: [0x044e:0x300c] devnum=5, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" |
| 02:28.59 | orpheus | what the....? |
| 02:29.04 | orpheus | it's my touchpad |
| 02:29.06 | orpheus | :/ |
| 02:29.26 | Writchie | gateway? |
| 02:29.39 | orpheus | what can a dfu runtime device do, anyways? |
| 02:30.12 | Writchie | accept downloading through the alternate interface |
| 02:30.48 | Writchie | some RAM based USB controllers use it for loading their initial program IIRC |
| 02:31.00 | orpheus | odd |
| 02:31.33 | orpheus | it's probably how you set all of the wierd options for it (there are dozens of paramaters you can poke at on some touchpads) |
| 02:32.13 | orpheus | any chance I could read from it? |
| 02:32.28 | orpheus | ooooh |
| 02:32.29 | orpheus | coo. |
| 02:32.29 | Writchie | vendor code 0x0443 is Alps Electric which is an OEM touchpad |
| 02:32.35 | orpheus | yep |
| 02:32.40 | orpheus | i'm familiar with it |
| 02:32.49 | orpheus | in fact, you can even chain it with a track stick |
| 02:33.07 | orpheus | which is odd, since i don't physically HAVE a touchpad... |
| 02:33.20 | Writchie | is it a laptop |
| 02:33.40 | orpheus | yeah, it becomes my desktop thanks to a dock |
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| 02:34.00 | orpheus | it's just funny to me that linux has to talk to a touchpad device to talk to the trackstick |
| 02:34.31 | Writchie | legacy issues prolly |
| 02:34.54 | Writchie | controler is prolly on the motherboard |
| 02:35.20 | orpheus | i think it's actually that sony is just ... slow |
| 02:35.58 | *** part/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=ruimorei@87-196-59-86.net.novis.pt) |
| 02:36.01 | orpheus | having seen how the hardware is actually wired up, i'm not impressed |
| 02:36.08 | orpheus | "Lost device after RESET?" |
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| 02:37.01 | orpheus | ack... i tried to read from my touchpad, and it reset and changed it's usb device id.... |
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| 02:38.10 | cesarb | orpheus: some devices have several device ids for several different modes |
| 02:38.23 | cesarb | orpheus: the neo itself has different ids for u-boot and the kernel |
| 02:38.51 | orpheus | this is true |
| 02:38.53 | cesarb | orpheus: perhaps it entered its firmware update mode now... with its own special id |
| 02:39.00 | orpheus | it's in DFU mode now, instead of runtime mode |
| 02:39.06 | orpheus | yep |
| 02:39.51 | orpheus | i know that openmoko's dfu-util is somewhat modified, but should it still work for normal devices? |
| 02:40.18 | Writchie | orpheus: you need the bit for bit correct firmware image. |
| 02:40.44 | Writchie | some low-end high volume usb controllers are ram based and may be loaded from the bios |
| 02:41.02 | orpheus | i'm trying to upload (device->file) the firmware/configuration/whatever it is |
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| 02:41.49 | orpheus | i'm hoping it's something cool like the configuration, since i've been wishing i could turn off the tap-to-click feature since i got it |
| 02:43.33 | orpheus | this is to say that i'm waiting for my neo to flash |
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| 02:44.54 | cesarb | orpheus: openmoko's dfu-util follow the standard too closely, and thus will not work with most devices |
| 02:45.10 | cesarb | orpheus: most devices have their own take on the standards |
| 02:46.37 | orpheus | ah |
| 02:46.39 | orpheus | oh well |
| 02:50.15 | roh | cesarb i think there were already some patches coming in to support different devices |
| 02:51.19 | cesarb | roh: yeah, I've seen at least one of these |
| 02:51.33 | cesarb | (patches, not devices... I didn't test dfu-util on my bluetooth dongle) |
| 02:51.40 | orpheus | ah |
| 02:51.53 | orpheus | anyways, i'm giving up for the night |
| 02:52.11 | orpheus | thanks for the interesting tidbits about dfu |
| 02:54.03 | roh | cesarb svn revisions 2765 2766 2767 |
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| 02:56.07 | Moriarty_ | ooh, new snapshot out. |
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| 02:58.36 | Moriarty_ | does the 11 Sep image have the new openmoko-dates in it? |
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| 04:38.52 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 05:01.17 | edistar | hey |
| 05:01.34 | edistar | I get an error while compiling my openmoko-devel-image: | configure: error: cannot find sources (gdbmdefs.h) in /media/nfs/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gdbm-native-1.8.3-r2/gdbm-1.8.3 or .. |
| 05:01.43 | edistar | can anyone help me? |
| 05:02.28 | roh | uuhm.. youre building via nfs? |
| 05:06.14 | edistar | roh: well, the files are remote, but that shouldn't be the problem |
| 05:07.27 | roh | edistar that sometimes provokes strange things... did you try rebuilding gdbm-native? |
| 05:07.42 | roh | make rebuild-package-gdbm-native |
| 05:07.51 | roh | if youre on mokomakefile |
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| 05:08.56 | edistar | roh: yes, I am |
| 05:08.59 | edistar | I'll try |
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| 05:10.45 | edistar | roh: same error: configure: error: cannot find sources (gdbmdefs.h) in /media/nfs/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gdbm-native-1.8.3-r2/gdbm-1.8.3 |
| 05:19.00 | edistar | roh: a bit strange, it tells me at the beginning that it's building for i486 altough local.conf has i686 configured, and then it looks for */i686-linux/gdbm*/ |
| 05:22.23 | CM | edistar: I know people have had problems with that before |
| 05:22.35 | CM | But not sure if it was gdbm. |
| 05:22.44 | CM | Try building for i486 maybe? |
| 05:23.53 | edistar | CM: just change i686 to i486? |
| 05:24.27 | CM | If I remember correctly, someone here said they got around their problem that way |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko agui (n=GuiyongZ@222.190.111.98) |
| 05:24.50 | CM | I'm a bitbake newbie myself and haven't really set myself into it yet |
| 05:26.49 | agui | HI, the kernel driver of USB serial converter chip in debug board v2 is what? It seems that my kernel can't recognise it |
| 05:27.50 | CM | I should remember what I had to change, but I did it 2 month ago.. |
| 05:27.54 | CM | Is it in the wiki? |
| 05:28.58 | edistar | CM: if you remember, please tell me ;) |
| 05:30.09 | CM | Device Drivers -> USB support -> USB Modem (CDC ACM) support |
| 05:30.38 | agui | The wiki says the usb to serial chip is part of FT2232, but where is the driver of it? |
| 05:30.59 | CM | agui: The one I just mentioned :) |
| 05:31.50 | CM | It's an usb modem, and you connect to /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 05:34.46 | agui | Do you mean use drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c? |
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| 05:37.28 | CM | Oh, sorry.. Guess I'm not really awake :( |
| 05:37.40 | CM | agui: Didn't see that you said the debug board |
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| 05:38.48 | CM | agui: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2 |
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| 05:41.02 | agui | I have read that WiKi, everything is ok except that there is no /dev/ttyUSB0 or /dev/ttyUSB1 device file or something else appear |
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| 05:41.24 | CM | agui: Ok, then it's the usb modem drivers I guess |
| 05:42.08 | CM | Try adding them, and if that's not enough, wait around a bit until the other people who have debug boards and know more wake up ;) |
| 05:43.29 | agui | Hi, I got the kernel message "drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: This device cannot do calls on its own. It is no modem" |
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| 05:44.12 | CM | I just have a Neo, and it's a modem, but I don't know about the debug board |
| 05:44.32 | roh | agui thats normal. it just means that is just a serial and nothing with ri and cd lines |
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| 05:45.14 | agui | CM: thank you a lot |
| 05:45.33 | roh | agui for the debugboard use this: |
| 05:45.36 | roh | modprobe ftdi_sio vendor=0x1457 product=0x5118 |
| 05:45.48 | CM | agui: np, but roh is someone who really knows :) |
| 05:46.19 | roh | then it detects the debugboard as 2 serials and as soon as openocd starts the first one vanishes. the second one is where the real serial console of the moko comes out |
| 05:46.27 | agui | Ok, I will try, thanks! :) |
| 05:46.51 | CM | agui: That part was in the wiki too ;) |
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| 06:17.02 | emdete | hi |
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| 06:52.15 | RalphEichelberge | ...still building! Task 1993... hope this will last till the end of that build |
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| 07:23.57 | raster | boo |
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| 07:42.10 | emdete | hi raster... |
| 07:43.08 | raster | emdete, yoyo |
| 07:48.17 | emdete | raster: we are playing around with edje, performance is indeed better than expected... |
| 07:48.24 | emdete | raster: but development is a pain ;) |
| 07:48.32 | raster | aarg |
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| 07:48.44 | raster | have to run. |
| 07:48.54 | raster | would love to chat. |
| 07:49.04 | raster | meeting foo |
| 07:49.13 | emdete | :D |
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| 08:06.05 | zefanja_ | I tried to build a *ext2 image of OpenMoko, but I get this error: genext2fs: couldn't allocate a block (no free space) |
| 08:06.31 | zefanja_ | where I can change the size? |
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| 08:12.16 | roh | heh... harald used SOCK_SEQPACKET in gsmd/libgsmd.. which means that only works with > 2.6.4 |
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| 08:24.39 | hhf423 | re |
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| 08:39.33 | hhf423 | oh, now there are free tools for unlocking the iphone. |
| 08:40.13 | emdete | is someone working on a openmokoport already? :) |
| 08:40.50 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-4358515f491a565c) |
| 08:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko wildfire` (n=wildfire@203.7.227.146) |
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| 08:46.20 | hhf423 | :-) |
| 08:47.11 | hhf423 | 1,5 months. not bad, although I actually thought it would be faster |
| 08:48.26 | rwhitby | nslu2-linux is porting Optware to the iphone |
| 08:48.48 | rwhitby | http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/optware/trunk/platforms/toolchain-iphone.mk |
| 08:49.59 | hhf423 | free iphones for 399, not a bad deal at all |
| 08:50.03 | dcordes_ | hhf423: 1,5 months until phase2 sells? |
| 08:50.39 | hhf423 | dcordes_: you wish. 1,5 months from iphone sales to unlock |
| 08:50.57 | emdete | 399? where did you get that price from? |
| 08:51.01 | dcordes_ | hmmmmmmm |
| 08:51.14 | dcordes_ | I need one badly |
| 08:51.21 | emdete | you have to add 2 years contract... |
| 08:51.30 | hhf423 | emdete: 399 is the price of an iphone and unlocking is now free |
| 08:51.53 | hhf423 | emdete: you do not have to add a 2 years contract. you never had to do that. |
| 08:52.10 | hhf423 | emdete: you were supposed to, but thats not the same |
| 08:52.11 | emdete | hhf423: so the contract starts with the activation oonly? |
| 08:52.48 | hhf423 | emdete: yes. you buy the phone without contract, then usually choose a contract upon activation. |
| 08:53.07 | RalphEichelberge | hey guys |
| 08:53.10 | emdete | hhf423: wow, that's different |
| 08:53.22 | emdete | now the neo seems to be very, very expensive |
| 08:53.26 | RalphEichelberge | i have a question |
| 08:53.44 | hhf423 | emdete: where did you get the impression that it was different? |
| 08:54.00 | emdete | hhf423: i thought the contract starts with the purchase |
| 08:54.05 | RalphEichelberge | i was building that new devel-enviorment |
| 08:54.17 | RalphEichelberge | and got this finally: |
| 08:54.21 | RalphEichelberge | | checking for MOKOUI... configure: error: Package requirements (libmokoui2 vte) were not met: |
| 08:54.21 | RalphEichelberge | | |
| 08:54.21 | RalphEichelberge | | No package 'vte' found |
| 08:54.32 | hhf423 | emdete: well, after the massive (33%) price cut from apple, the Neo is actually expensive, feature wise. If you do not count the value of GPL drivers etc. |
| 08:54.46 | emdete | hhf423: who does.... |
| 08:55.14 | CM | RalphEichelberge: I'm updating now, I'll see if I get that error too |
| 08:55.18 | hhf423 | emdete: no, that was never the case. Thats the big different from iphone to other phones brought in the states, in the shop, you just buy the phone. |
| 08:55.39 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, try to build vte first |
| 08:55.59 | RalphEichelberge | well, how? |
| 08:56.55 | tuukkah | bitbake vte |
| 08:56.55 | hhf423 | hhf423: actually, I do. I think there is value in open drivers and such. But of course the question is how many people care and how much (as in $$$ much) they care :-) |
| 08:56.55 | *** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@trl57194.kalvskinnet.hist.no) |
| 08:56.55 | RalphEichelberge | openmoko@openmoko-celsius:~/moko$ bitbake vte |
| 08:56.55 | RalphEichelberge | ERROR: Please set the 'CACHE' variable. |
| 08:57.14 | tuukkah | RalphEichelberge, i don't know how to do that with mokomakefile |
| 08:57.18 | emdete | hhf423: shure, me too. but fic looks for mass market |
| 08:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 08:58.05 | rwhitby | RalphEichelberge: you need to source ./setup-env first |
| 08:58.49 | RalphEichelberge | well i dont know enough about the building process |
| 08:58.57 | rwhitby | the MokoMakefile wiki page shows how to run bitbake manually - have you read it? |
| 08:59.29 | hhf423 | emdete: right. that will only work with a cool device (hardware) and cool software. And because they do not have the cachet/prestige of Apple, even with the same featureset and slickness of GUI they will have to charge less |
| 08:59.35 | RalphEichelberge | well i read the wiki - but u know it has many sites :) |
| 08:59.47 | RalphEichelberge | i will search for that |
| 09:00.39 | RalphEichelberge | ok rwhitby ist baking |
| 09:00.50 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile under "Developing with MokoMakefile" - I guess part of that could be moved to an earlier section. |
| 09:01.00 | RalphEichelberge | what is vte anyway? |
| 09:01.11 | rwhitby | Please add it where you would have expected to see it on that page. |
| 09:01.47 | RalphEichelberge | well that page i found serveral times in wiki |
| 09:02.07 | RalphEichelberge | and i have read it too |
| 09:02.39 | RalphEichelberge | but you know - there are new aspects to the same manual every time to have a new issue :) |
| 09:03.45 | *** join/#openmoko otie (n=simon@h-244-125.A218.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 09:04.30 | emdete | hhf423: shure, cool device is important. but when i show the neo around most people don't like it very much. okay, the included gps is great for some but the display and the high edge around is really ugly |
| 09:10.25 | CM | RalphEichelberge: vte = virtual terminal emulation |
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| 09:12.42 | CM | libmokogsmd2 seems broken now.. |
| 09:13.17 | CM | http://rafb.net/p/OoeKHb43.html |
| 09:16.45 | *** join/#openmoko hrw (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 09:16.50 | hrw | i guys |
| 09:17.34 | CM | ello :) |
| 09:17.45 | TRIsoft | i Marcin :D |
| 09:18.03 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky_ (n=kuyky@a81-84-127-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 09:19.00 | hrw | someone remember which uboot rev is safe to use? |
| 09:19.39 | rwhitby | 2007.8 snapshot |
| 09:21.37 | hrw | ok |
| 09:23.15 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek (n=zdanek@fw2.autoguard.pl) |
| 09:23.23 | zdanek | hi all |
| 09:24.05 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 09:24.51 | zdanek | I have a question, I have upgraded packages from buildhost.openmoko.org and since then stopping gsmdaemon hangs whole phone, does anybody know this bug? |
| 09:25.09 | jeddy3 | zdanek, yup, same here |
| 09:25.33 | hrw | see http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 maybe? |
| 09:25.54 | jeddy3 | zdanek, can't even do ipkg upgrade since it restarts deamon when upgrading =P |
| 09:26.05 | hrw | Sep 12 11:25:45 home kernel: [55434.961200] usb 2-2: usbfs: USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed cmd dfu-util rqt 161 rq 3 len 6 ret -62 |
| 09:26.08 | hrw | argh |
| 09:29.00 | zdanek | yes, that's the bug |
| 09:31.41 | zdanek | by the way I'll ask my old question did someone manage to make gprs connection on 2007.2? |
| 09:31.55 | hrw | zdanek: there is doc in wiki |
| 09:32.02 | zdanek | especially hrw because you have polish sim |
| 09:32.22 | zdanek | I have some problems as I wrote on community mail list |
| 09:32.26 | zdanek | (PL) |
| 09:32.36 | hhf423 | emdete: yes, thats right |
| 09:32.46 | zdanek | :) |
| 09:32.52 | hhf423 | zdanek: see "Phase 1 software testing" in the wiki |
| 09:33.21 | zdanek | I have |
| 09:33.22 | zdanek | [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0x309ee493> <pcomp> <accomp>] |
| 09:33.22 | zdanek | and then |
| 09:33.22 | zdanek | tcsetattr: Invalid argument (line 964) |
| 09:33.24 | hhf423 | zdanek: did you do the change to boot variables? |
| 09:33.41 | zdanek | sorry, what do you mean? |
| 09:33.52 | hhf423 | zdanek: I also get that gprs error sometimes, I usually have to try two to five times |
| 09:34.35 | zdanek | I tried many times, never successful |
| 09:34.43 | hhf423 | zdanek: did you remove "console=ttySAC0,115200" from bootargs_base while in uboot? |
| 09:34.52 | sandos | weird. I found a totally broken island but the rendering was fine. I assume someone has broken is recently |
| 09:36.04 | zdanek | hhf423: nope |
| 09:40.37 | zdanek | hhf423: I briefly red wiki's Phase 1 soft testing and i'll try to fix some probles at my neo |
| 09:40.43 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet_ (n=larsg@ti500710a080-4999.bb.online.no) |
| 09:40.46 | zdanek | but suddenly I found this http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/0c933096b179fc81f91595ccf4d3e681.png |
| 09:40.52 | zdanek | what's this app? |
| 09:40.58 | tuukkah | any heard about gconf support in python? in debian it comes from python-gnome2 and gnome-python |
| 09:41.34 | hhf423 | zdanek: thats "SettingsGui", look it up in the wiki |
| 09:42.52 | zdanek | hhf423: thank you |
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| 09:44.43 | hhf423 | zdanek: from the same author there is also "smstool" which will allow you to send sms via gui |
| 09:45.37 | zdanek | thx :D |
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| 09:53.59 | zecke | mickey|sports: ping |
| 09:54.00 | zecke | hi |
| 09:54.11 | zdanek | hi |
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| 10:11.04 | jeddy3 | ok, just updated neo...now X hangs instead of libgsmd =P |
| 10:14.38 | hhf423 | jeddy3: did you remove "console=ttySAC0,115200" from bootargs_base while in uboot? |
| 10:15.05 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 10:15.15 | jeddy3 | hhf423, aah no :| |
| 10:19.24 | hhf423 | jeddy3: you also need to find a black chicken and kill it under full moon |
| 10:19.34 | jeddy3 | hhf423, xD |
| 10:20.32 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
| 10:21.49 | jeddy3 | hhf423, you have any reference to that uboot fix? |
| 10:22.51 | hhf423 | jeddy3: err, its in one of the bugs in bugzilla, let me check |
| 10:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@a81-84-127-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 10:24.25 | tuukkah | 788 over and over |
| 10:26.15 | jeddy3 | !ombug 788 |
| 10:26.31 | hhf423 | wow, Gravenreuth muss in den knast? |
| 10:26.35 | hhf423 | oops, sorry |
| 10:27.43 | jeddy3 | oh! it's same bug as before...didn't behave the same though :| |
| 10:28.00 | jeddy3 | thanks for help, hhf423, tuukkah |
| 10:29.10 | hhf423 | jeddy3: welcome |
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| 10:36.45 | rwhitby | mickeyl: should mokomakefile build the frozen version uboot-openmoko, or from uboot-openmoko_svn.bb, or should we create a new frozen version (cause the existing frozen version doesn't patch for me) |
| 10:39.19 | rwhitby | mickeyl: also, when are you guys going to institute a fixed SRCREV in each _svn file, which gets bumped by the author when a new svn revision has been tested? |
| 10:39.34 | rwhitby | (or alternatively, in a preferred-openmoko-versions file) |
| 10:41.48 | mickeyl | rwhitby: the frozen version should be preferred. it builds fine here, btw. |
| 10:42.02 | rwhitby | Hmm. |
| 10:42.16 | mickeyl | fixed SRCREVs would be nice. hopefully next month, when the OE dude starts |
| 10:42.47 | rwhitby | do you agree with the bumping of a srcrev equating to some rudimentary testing of the new value? |
| 10:43.40 | mickeyl | ya |
| 10:44.47 | rwhitby | mickeyl: what's the latest thoughts in the core team about gsmd and removing kernel console= vs stty vs something else? (ombug 788) |
| 10:45.15 | rwhitby | which should we be recommending to each new person who arrives here with the hung neo problem? |
| 10:45.33 | mickeyl | rwhitby: my personal take on that is removing kernel console in environment |
| 10:45.37 | mickeyl | i proposed this ages ago |
| 10:45.59 | mickeyl | since i always had the gut feeling that the automatic switching was not perfectly working |
| 10:46.25 | mickeyl | the relatively new complete hang finally proves my gut feeling :/ |
| 10:46.40 | rwhitby | can we enable the fw_env tool so that people can modify the u-boot environment from userland? |
| 10:47.00 | mickeyl | fw_env? |
| 10:47.19 | rwhitby | yeah, userland tool that does printenv and setenv of the uboot environment variables |
| 10:47.49 | mickeyl | interesting. why not just having someone download the fixed environment via dfu ? |
| 10:48.18 | mickeyl | someone with a debug board should test whether dfu now correctly uploads |
| 10:48.36 | mickeyl | then we could just take this uploaded env and put it online |
| 10:48.40 | mickeyl | (after testing) |
| 10:48.54 | CM | What about the uboot_env? (mtdblock1) |
| 10:49.23 | rwhitby | I've uploaded and then downloaded the uboot-env partition using dfu-util when I unbricked the neo from Sydney |
| 10:49.28 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@vpna179.ugent.be) |
| 10:50.07 | CM | Guess I'll have to try that next |
| 10:50.16 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@vpna179.ugent.be) |
| 10:50.37 | CM | Before, scp:ing a working env to the neo and dd it to /dev/mtdblock1 worked, but no longer |
| 10:50.41 | ixs | rwhitby: could you include a check for the uboot image in qemu-flash-local? without that file flash.sh will fail horribly. Alternatively, just include build-package-uboot-openmoko as a prerequisite for qemu-flash-local. kthx. |
| 10:51.05 | *** join/#openmoko mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 10:51.33 | rwhitby | ixs: uboot is now built by image, so that problem should resolve itself. |
| 10:51.49 | ixs | rwhitby: ahhh okay. in that case, nvm. .D |
| 10:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@mathias.residence.ens-lyon.fr) |
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| 10:53.52 | mickeyl | rwhitby: pushing the frozen version to a new date |
| 10:54.13 | rwhitby | thx |
| 10:54.34 | *** join/#openmoko Batalyx (n=ji+irc@jalava.cc.jyu.fi) |
| 10:56.57 | Batalyx | hello! is "amd64 double core + fc6 + binutils-cross-2.17 + mokomakefile won't compile" a faq already? |
| 10:57.22 | ixs | hmmmm |
| 10:58.53 | mickeyl | rwhitby: can you put this known-working environment on the wiki please? |
| 10:58.53 | CM | Batalyx: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2928 |
| 10:59.08 | ixs | who ever did spread the rumour that recent uboot builds will not auto-poweroff after 30secs? they even do that in qemu? |
| 10:59.43 | rwhitby | mickeyl: you mean the one that I flashed on the sydney brick? sure. which page? |
| 10:59.54 | tuukkah | Batalyx, there can be many problems with builds |
| 11:00.14 | mickeyl | rwhitby: does it still contains the serial console? |
| 11:00.23 | Batalyx | CM: thanks. I'll try that... |
| 11:00.28 | tuukkah | what's the easiest way for me to create and build my own version of gmsd or neod? |
| 11:00.37 | rwhitby | mickeyl: it won't after I upload it again from my neo, then download it again to test it |
| 11:01.00 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@vpna179.ugent.be) |
| 11:01.29 | tuukkah | do i create a local overlay then what? |
| 11:01.34 | mickeyl | rwhitby: well, perhaps it would be even better on the web. i guess i'll put it to the 2007.08 snapshot directory |
| 11:01.41 | mickeyl | or hey |
| 11:01.44 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-005.eplus-online.de) |
| 11:01.44 | mickeyl | right into OE :) |
| 11:01.47 | mickeyl | hey zecke |
| 11:02.00 | hhf423 | ixs: obviously someone with no ida |
| 11:02.16 | mickeyl | zecke: right on your way to Holland? |
| 11:02.26 | ixs | hhf423: yeah, someone even put that info into the wiki on SH1 |
| 11:02.34 | rwhitby | mickeyl: you could put it in the openmoko svn, then I can add a mokomakefile target to dfu-util flash it |
| 11:03.05 | hhf423 | ixs: setenv boot_menu_timeout 65000' to keep it from powering down |
| 11:03.08 | zecke | mickeyl: yes! the train just departed and I found a power plug... |
| 11:03.48 | hhf423 | train even |
| 11:04.03 | ixs | hhf423: I know that command, but as I said, rumour is, that "broken uboot installs on some neos" power down |
| 11:04.15 | zecke | the places for the disabled most of the time have poweroutlets... |
| 11:04.25 | hhf423 | ixs: funny |
| 11:06.17 | mickeyl | rwhitby: sounds good |
| 11:06.18 | ixs | hhf423: "* |
| 11:06.19 | ixs | Note: Some devices have been reported to turn off after a short period of inactivity while on the uboot menu. To avoid this, simply press the AUX button every 30 seconds or so. " |
| 11:06.28 | ixs | from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 11:06.34 | mickeyl | well |
| 11:06.42 | mickeyl | it is like that |
| 11:06.53 | mickeyl | turning off while inactive is standard |
| 11:07.08 | mickeyl | turning off while a dfu-load is in progress would be a major bug |
| 11:07.16 | mickeyl | i didn't see the latter one since months though |
| 11:07.16 | hhf423 | yes, but "some devices"?! all devices! |
| 11:07.29 | mickeyl | ya, some devices is bogus |
| 11:07.45 | ixs | changing it |
| 11:07.52 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 11:07.59 | hhf423 | ixs: will you change that to all and put in something like unless you setenv boot_menu_timeout 65000' to keep it from powering down |
| 11:08.16 | hhf423 | (saveenv afterwards) |
| 11:11.50 | ixs | done http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko#Preparing_the_device_for_DFU_mode |
| 11:13.50 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@62-2-90-134.static.cablecom.ch) |
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| 11:16.44 | hrw | someone know how to disable GSM broadcast messages? |
| 11:17.37 | SpeedEvil | You mean cell broadcasts2D? |
| 11:18.05 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 11:23.32 | hrw | yes |
| 11:23.57 | hrw | Heyah sends lot of them - mostly sex offers |
| 11:24.00 | SpeedEvil | there is a way of saying 'I only want cell broadcasts that are x,y,z |
| 11:24.04 | SpeedEvil | ID |
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| 11:27.25 | tuukkah | Batalyx, zipola, if you come to the flug-jkl meeting today we can hack on the neo |
| 11:29.02 | zipola | I'm afraid I'll have to recover from flu yet another day. |
| 11:29.28 | CM | zipola: Äh, make it a flu-jkl meeting :P |
| 11:32.07 | Batalyx | tuukkah: sorry, can't come there today |
| 11:32.11 | jeddy3 | hehe |
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| 12:14.46 | tuukkah | anyone know where i can get gst-meta-audio which openmoko-mediaplayer2 needs? |
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| 12:19.11 | tuukkah | ok the source is gst-meta-base |
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| 12:52.46 | kristian-m | morning |
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| 13:06.57 | hhf423 | hi kristian-m |
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| 13:07.24 | hhf423 | kristian-m: looks like gsmd and libgsmd became even more erratic after the last chenges |
| 13:07.41 | vallor | good morning |
| 13:07.45 | vallor | and yikes |
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| 13:13.13 | hrw | does AT+CSQ works in neo? |
| 13:15.06 | kristian-m | hhf423 hmm, it'll develop - I'm implementing a passive access for settingsgui using the atcmd mode. - so stop interfering with gsmd in the next version... |
| 13:15.32 | hhf423 | kristian-m: ah, thats probably a good idea |
| 13:17.11 | kristian-m | hhf423 currently it initiates a power-on and register to the modem on connection |
| 13:17.14 | Writchie|zzzZZZz | hrw: yes - AT+CSQ will give you present signal quality - propritary command AT%CSQ IIRC enables unsolicited SQ reports |
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| 13:19.57 | hrw | thx |
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| 13:34.35 | SpeedEvil | when order? |
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| 13:35.30 | Sup3rkiddo | SpeedEvil, that was long long long ago...3 days from the day it was announced |
| 13:35.58 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 13:36.42 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: Guess you got one from the new batch or? |
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| 13:45.18 | emdete | is the new batch different? |
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| 13:46.01 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 13:47.06 | Sup3rkiddo | CM, dunno mate, the insititute authorities are having it, i just got to touch it and had to give it to them...another 3 days to flash it |
| 13:48.19 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@dhcp-204-103-vpn.unizh.ch) |
| 13:49.24 | CM | ok |
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| 13:57.25 | Sup3rkiddo | hey all anyone getting screwed whilst building curl? |
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| 13:59.29 | Sup3rkiddo | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=813 |
| 14:00.28 | hrw | Sup3rkiddo: checking.. |
| 14:00.28 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:00.34 | hrw | NOTE: package curl-7.16.4-r0: task do_build: completed |
| 14:01.01 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@32-111.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr) |
| 14:01.27 | Sup3rkiddo | hrw, dude, could you please check out the bug report and guide me on whatsup?, cleaning stuff doesnt help, |
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| 14:07.23 | hrw | no idea |
| 14:07.25 | hrw | works for me |
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| 14:10.26 | gordonsyme | Sup3rkiddo: have you tried `make clean-package-curl`? |
| 14:10.46 | Sup3rkiddo | gordonsyme, yup |
| 14:10.58 | gordonsyme | and is it still curl that breaks? |
| 14:11.03 | Sup3rkiddo | gordonsyme, yeah |
| 14:11.39 | gordonsyme | odd, I had a situation a while back where loads of packages exhibited that behaviour. Cleaning them and rebuilding worked for them all |
| 14:12.09 | gordonsyme | I've also just rebuild the curl package... Sorry, can't be further help, it works for me |
| 14:13.16 | zefanja | hi...has anyone tried to build an OpenMoko 2007.2 *.ext2 image ? |
| 14:13.23 | Sup3rkiddo | gordonsyme, ok man, thanks..make clobber has worked for me in the past in similar scenarios, but grrrr....the amount of time..:( |
| 14:13.27 | zefanja | I tried I but there is a error |
| 14:13.57 | gordonsyme | Sup3rkiddo: I feel your pain, done that a good few times |
| 14:14.18 | Sup3rkiddo | zefanja, and has it to do with curl? |
| 14:14.23 | Sup3rkiddo | gordonsyme, =( |
| 14:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-2ec695b4c5710b4a) |
| 14:17.17 | zefanja | sorry...I don't understand |
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| 14:17.37 | Sup3rkiddo | zefanja, er..sorry, paste the errors somewhere... |
| 14:18.03 | zefanja | wait |
| 14:18.58 | zefanja | genext2fs: couldn't allocate a block (no free space) |
| 14:19.19 | hrw | zefanja: IMAGE_ROOTFS_SIZE is too small |
| 14:19.21 | zefanja | i think i have to change to size of the ext2 image file |
| 14:19.23 | *** part/#openmoko slytherin (n=Salazar@pdpc/supporter/base/slytherin) |
| 14:20.02 | zefanja | so i have to added this option in local.conf? |
| 14:20.17 | hrw | yes |
| 14:20.21 | zefanja | thx |
| 14:21.11 | zefanja | the size in blocks? |
| 14:21.34 | zefanja | so 102400 for 100MB? |
| 14:22.09 | ScaredyCat | well, the bill is in for repairs to the car :/ |
| 14:22.38 | douglasf_ | ScaredyCat: how much? |
| 14:22.49 | ScaredyCat | 2500 euro :( |
| 14:23.31 | wibbit | ScaredyCat: what did you do to it? |
| 14:23.33 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2956 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c: |
| 14:23.33 | CIA-23 | openmoko: neod: get the name of the (first) backlight device node from sysfs |
| 14:23.33 | CIA-23 | openmoko: This makes neod controlling brightness on all devices with LCD backlight class |
| 14:23.41 | CM | ScaredyCat: Yikes, what car is it? |
| 14:23.42 | mwester | ScaredyCat: That's a lot of work! |
| 14:23.53 | ScaredyCat | it wasn't me wibbit - someone broke into it. |
| 14:24.03 | ScaredyCat | it's a Volvo S80 CM |
| 14:24.16 | ScaredyCat | mwester: they made a real mess of it |
| 14:24.16 | wibbit | ScaredyCat: I had some one kick in 3 of my doors, repair bill was 2500 gbp |
| 14:24.31 | CM | ScaredyCat: Ah.. I'm sitting att the factory where they build them right now |
| 14:25.13 | ScaredyCat | I love it.. it's the first car I've ever brought that wasn't a pile of crap. |
| 14:25.35 | ScaredyCat | bedore this they were all sub 1000 gbp. |
| 14:25.41 | ScaredyCat | before |
| 14:25.44 | wibbit | ScaredyCat: not to be a pedant, but it's bought... |
| 14:26.02 | ScaredyCat | well, I bought it, then brought it home |
| 14:26.06 | wibbit | LOL |
| 14:26.44 | hhf423 | kristian-m: there was also, I think Writchie thinking loud about connecting gsm to d-bus so you could then listen to that |
| 14:26.47 | ScaredyCat | it's the first time I think that the labour costs have been lower than the parts cost |
| 14:27.03 | ScaredyCat | CM: you work for Volvo? |
| 14:27.38 | CM | ScaredyCat: No, consultant company. But I've been assigned to work on Volvo's factory planning |
| 14:27.56 | CM | I'm responsible for the systems where they plan all future cars |
| 14:28.15 | CM | All cars at all that is |
| 14:28.32 | ScaredyCat | cool |
| 14:28.59 | hhf423 | CM: I once listened to a gal from volvo that did the only-women-designed concept car |
| 14:29.25 | CM | hhf423: Ah, they got a lot of free pr for that one |
| 14:29.28 | hhf423 | that was a cool car, it was dead practical |
| 14:29.41 | ScaredyCat | you think you could slip a little bug in the design software that tricks the manufacturing equipment inot makeing me one and shipping it to me.. ? :P |
| 14:30.04 | *** join/#openmoko zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 14:30.15 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe.. I can actually update the MPS (master production schedule) as I want.. |
| 14:30.42 | ScaredyCat | cool...that's even better... you can put it at the top of the list too then :P |
| 14:31.07 | CM | So the car would get planned an materials ordered and so on, but I'd need to assign an order number to it before they start building |
| 14:31.09 | ScaredyCat | they make Chilli sauce next door... |
| 14:31.21 | CM | Takes about 2 days to build an XC90 |
| 14:31.31 | ScaredyCat | I can wait 2 days :) |
| 14:31.34 | CM | Hehe |
| 14:31.46 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 14:31.52 | ScaredyCat | surely you have to do 'test' runs ;) |
| 14:32.04 | amarsh04 | depending on the wind direction at work, we either get the smell of a wood veneer factory or a biscuit factory |
| 14:32.16 | CM | amarsh04: *lol* |
| 14:32.58 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 14:33.07 | ScaredyCat | with a volvo in his pocket.. |
| 14:33.22 | CM | Of course.. :P |
| 14:33.42 | ScaredyCat | 'is that a volvo in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me' |
| 14:34.05 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 14:34.55 | ScaredyCat | my load car is a Peugeot 206... |
| 14:35.39 | ScaredyCat | they guy on the phone kept saying "it's really small, small, I mean it's tiny, small, really - sorry" |
| 14:36.27 | ScaredyCat | wibbit: they kicked in 3 of your doors? |
| 14:36.41 | wibbit | Yup |
| 14:36.44 | wibbit | road rage |
| 14:36.49 | ScaredyCat | :O |
| 14:37.00 | wibbit | big boot prints in the side of three dorrs |
| 14:37.01 | wibbit | doors |
| 14:37.04 | ScaredyCat | why did they miss the last one then? |
| 14:37.25 | ScaredyCat | or had you run em over by then... |
| 14:37.43 | wibbit | ScaredyCat: no idea to be honest with you |
| 14:37.55 | ScaredyCat | a bit ott though... |
| 14:38.11 | ScaredyCat | maybe by the time they got to number 4 they'd calmed down |
| 14:38.17 | wibbit | The most anoying this was I phone the police there and then, and the stupid woman on the other end of the phone told me it was not a 999 issue, and that I should report it to the local police station |
| 14:38.19 | sandos | ScaredyCat: me and gf have a 207. Her choice :) |
| 14:38.34 | wibbit | The fact that we were stuck in traffic, and they were in front of me for another phew minutes, and could have been cough |
| 14:38.42 | DPThought | amarsh04: Would you prefer having a stonemason next to your office who likes to work outside? :) For us the wind direction is irelevant. Even the wheather does not matter. :)) |
| 14:38.44 | sandos | wibbit: atleast in Sweden,youre allowed to call 112 for "crime in progress" or accidents |
| 14:38.58 | wibbit | sandos: interesting |
| 14:39.02 | ScaredyCat | wibbit: lazy fuzz |
| 14:39.05 | sandos | I would assume kicking on somebodies car is a crime |
| 14:39.07 | wibbit | sandos: I think that is what 999 is for in the UK |
| 14:40.27 | amarsh04 | DPThought, I'm (mostly) happy with the environment at work (-: |
| 14:41.27 | ScaredyCat | sandos: I just feel very very vunerable in something that small... |
| 14:41.34 | amarsh04 | we have 000 for "life threatening" emergencies and 131444 for "police attendance" |
| 14:41.53 | sandos | ScaredyCat: heh, ok. The 207 has 5 star NCAP rating so.. |
| 14:42.13 | ScaredyCat | there's at least 10 acres between me and the front in the S80... in the 207 it seems like it's right there |
| 14:42.16 | sandos | I think its prety ok. Although I guess I wouldnt want to be in a head-on collision with for example a XC90 :) |
| 14:42.28 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:42.41 | ScaredyCat | I don;t think anyone wants to get hit by a 4x4 ... can't be good |
| 14:43.10 | mwester | It isn't |
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| 14:43.54 | ScaredyCat | amarsh04: look at the spaces of a tomtom go .. or clonish thing... |
| 14:44.02 | ScaredyCat | gta02 spec is pretty close |
| 14:44.32 | amarsh04 | the unit I used was called a "navman" |
| 14:44.35 | mwester | mickey|bbiab: Any possibilities we can discuss modifying the gsmd script to eliminate the gsm/device lockups (bug 788), in addition to changing the uboot env? That would resolve the problem for those who would rather not give up the console. (details in the bug report)... |
| 14:45.00 | ScaredyCat | I did see a tv program on some car crashes... there was one where a truck driver smashed into the back of a car... |
| 14:45.36 | baird | amarsh04: The Garmin routing/mapping GPSen typically use a 100-130MHz ARM cpu.. current use is actually rather minimal-- my ex's 60CS does about 9 hours on 2x AAs. |
| 14:45.39 | ScaredyCat | it wasn't untill the fire crew got there that they discovered that there had been another car *in between* the two |
| 14:45.46 | sandos | ScaredyCat: ouch |
| 14:46.08 | ScaredyCat | yes, that person was very very - not alive. |
| 14:47.23 | ScaredyCat | I generally take the view that every other driver on the road is actually a small 5 year old child - prone to totally irrational behaviour at any point in time |
| 14:48.00 | DPThought | amarsh04: Navicore for the Nokia 770 comes with a 1GB mmc card. The only additional hardware needed is a bluetooth gps receiver. Cpu is slow (220Mhz arm, 64mb ram). It works ok. TomTom has a additional acelorameter. |
| 14:48.00 | ScaredyCat | ... it seems to work (he says touching a very lrge peice of wood) |
| 14:48.15 | kristian-m | hhf423 hmm, an other idea would be to implement a python interface to the socket... - hmm - okay first I'll fight with the nonblocking stdout of the atcmd-mode of libgsmd-tool |
| 14:48.22 | sandos | ScaredyCat: haha |
| 14:48.56 | DPThought | i hope navicore ports it's stuff to openmoko. Should be no big deal after they did the maemo thing |
| 14:49.16 | mwester | ScaredyCat: that's the first rule I gave to my daughters when I taught them to drive: treat every other driver on the road as if they were asleep, stupid, or drunk; you may be mistaken most times, but you'll be prepared when you're right. |
| 14:49.43 | ScaredyCat | too right |
| 14:49.56 | ScaredyCat | some are even all 3 |
| 14:49.58 | amarsh04 | thanks baird, DPThought |
| 14:49.59 | cbrake | is anyone having trouble checking out the openmoko svn: http://pastebin.ca/693947 |
| 14:50.47 | cbrake | I'm puzzled why the checkout fails, but I can "svn ls http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/tasks/trunk/libkoto" just fine |
| 14:50.53 | mickey|bbiab | mwester: just about to leave for the rest of the evening. sure if there would be a way for the gsmd script to not produce lockups, I would be all ears. however i tried almost every combination and failed. it is my belief that 90% of our problems will vanish once gsmd will be refactored to using sync processing though. |
| 14:51.13 | mickey|bbiab | the rest of the 10% may be kernel / serial related |
| 14:51.23 | mickey|bbiab | mwester: lets discuss this via bugzilla |
| 14:51.32 | mwester | Did you try the stty stuff in the last notes on the bugzilla report? |
| 14:51.47 | mickey|bbiab | no, but gsmd does exactly that |
| 14:51.52 | mickey|bbiab | setting hardflow and 115200 |
| 14:51.58 | mickey|bbiab | so i'd be surprised if it would change anything |
| 14:52.05 | mwester | No, the solution is to *disable* flowcontrol. |
| 14:52.12 | mickey|bbiab | oh |
| 14:52.16 | mickey|bbiab | well, need to run now |
| 14:52.17 | mickey|bbiab | lets talk later |
| 14:52.21 | mwester | ok |
| 14:55.04 | anrp | i don't need no steenkin flow control, nuh sir! |
| 14:55.30 | baird | ScaredyCat: Re: "every other driver on the road" ... As a commuting cyclist, my view is that 50% of all car drivers have an I.Q below 100... :) |
| 14:55.48 | anrp | i ride a motorcycle D: |
| 14:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 14:56.01 | anrp | so i get the worst of both! |
| 14:56.57 | baird | I get all the crap motorcyclists get, plus an easy target for thrown beer bottles. :/ |
| 14:57.13 | mwester | anrp: are you one of those that weaves in between the stopped traffic to thread ones way up to the front of the line at a traffic signal? (outside of that behavior, most cyclists seem to be fairly reasonable on the road) |
| 14:57.27 | anrp | i've only done that once |
| 14:57.33 | anrp | when there was a 5 mile long backup on a highway |
| 14:58.33 | anrp | someone spit their gum at me but other than that it was uneventful ~_~ |
| 14:58.42 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 15:00.48 | Jiten | anrp: people tend to be jealous when they see other people's choices work better than their own :P |
| 15:00.57 | anrp | heh :/ |
| 15:01.12 | anrp | the reason for the backup was that a state trooper had gotten absolutely nailed at high speed |
| 15:01.22 | anrp | so crap all over the road |
| 15:01.45 | baird | lanesplitting's illegal for motorbike riders in NSW Australia. Cyclists can do it, and hook-turns, too. |
| 15:02.03 | anrp | lanesplitting is illegal in all of the US except for california |
| 15:02.09 | anrp | for motorcycles |
| 15:03.45 | *** join/#openmoko dsadasda (n=jubuntu@dsl-hkibras1-ff42c000-142.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:04.30 | DPThought | what is lanesplitting? |
| 15:05.02 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 15:07.26 | ScaredyCat | car + bike in the same lane |
| 15:07.37 | DPThought | iiiek. sounds scary |
| 15:07.42 | baird | DPThought: usually a bike driving around other traffic in the same lane |
| 15:07.49 | ScaredyCat | usually at very low speeds |
| 15:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko der_io (n=der@p54A0DF68.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:08.16 | ScaredyCat | I always thought it was supposed to be a perk ... |
| 15:08.19 | DPThought | ah, ok. this is common here. But i don't think it's legal :) |
| 15:08.30 | baird | ..and car owners know they can get away with 'accidently' opening their car doors without warning :) |
| 15:08.31 | ScaredyCat | in lieu of staying dry in thunder storms |
| 15:08.45 | ScaredyCat | baird: it depends... |
| 15:09.23 | ScaredyCat | if there's no gap on the inside, don't hop onto the pavement and then get upset when a door opens |
| 15:10.17 | ScaredyCat | I don't mind cyclists. |
| 15:10.24 | DPThought | When traffic comes to a stop on the autobahn all cars have to bould a alley for rescue vehicles. Bikers use this alley when it is free. |
| 15:10.51 | DPThought | so not so much sharing the lane but misusing the rescue lane |
| 15:11.02 | ScaredyCat | I do mind that it's always the car drivers fault |
| 15:11.16 | ScaredyCat | DPThought: no hard shoulder? |
| 15:14.06 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-109-191.37-151.net24.it) |
| 15:15.42 | DPThought | SpeedEvil: driving the shoulder is very unpopular and widely considered offensive. No biker would do this. :) |
| 15:16.07 | DPThought | germany is strange with its rules and regulations |
| 15:17.20 | baird | In AU, cyclists who ride the shoulder are called 'gutter bunnies'. :) |
| 15:17.53 | DPThought | driving the alley is probably as much illegal as driving the shoulder lane. But if you drive at the shoulder you are a asshole and if you drive the alley you are just opportunistic *g* |
| 15:18.43 | zefanja | ok...I tried it again to build an ext2 image again but now I get this: ERROR: '/home/OM/openembedded/packages/psplash/psplash_svn.bb' failed |
| 15:19.51 | zefanja | http://pastebin.ca/694013 |
| 15:22.10 | *** join/#openmoko cooter (n=cooter@bhh141.students.ubc.ca) |
| 15:23.07 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
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| 15:33.31 | edistar_ | hey: I have the following error: | configure: error: cannot find sources (gdbmdefs.h) in /media/nfs/moko/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/gdbm-native-1.8.3-r2/gdbm-1.8.3 or .. |
| 15:33.57 | edistar_ | I built for i686 before and had the same error... but then for i686, can anyone help me? |
| 15:34.12 | anrp | nfs D: |
| 15:34.53 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
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| 15:45.04 | edistar_ | anrp: so? everything else works.. |
| 15:45.27 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A8A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:46.42 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
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| 15:49.19 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers_ (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 15:51.41 | jseghers_ | anyone else having trouble compiling psplash? psplash.c errors: HAND_IMG_WIDTH, HAND_IMG_HEIGHT, HAND_IMG_BYTES_PER_PIXEL and HAND_IMG_REL_PIXEL_DATA all undeclared |
| 15:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko Administrator (n=Administ@dsl-245-142-143.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 15:56.16 | zefanja | jseghers_: yes, me too |
| 15:56.54 | zefanja | http://pastebin.ca/694013 |
| 15:56.58 | jseghers_ | zefanja: Ok... someone must have forgotten to check something in...I hope they fix it soon |
| 15:57.14 | jseghers_ | yep, exactly what I have |
| 15:57.14 | zefanja | I hope so |
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| 16:01.54 | cb22 | say, does anyone know where / if i could get the openmoko gtk2 theme? |
| 16:03.06 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone getting build errors related to patches in all packages, only to disappear when a clean-package-<foo> is done? |
| 16:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 16:04.31 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 16:08.47 | jseghers_ | zefanja: take a look at http://pastebin.ca/694071 |
| 16:09.05 | jseghers_ | zefanja: I'm currently building (it's wading through bitbake files at the moment) |
| 16:09.12 | jseghers_ | but I think that's the problem. |
| 16:10.09 | jseghers_ | zefanja: I spoke too soon.... |
| 16:10.44 | hrw | bye |
| 16:11.25 | jseghers_ | zefanja: actually, that did fix it, I just needed to do a rebuild-package-psplash for it to pick up the change |
| 16:11.47 | zefanja | jpp...thx. I will try it |
| 16:12.19 | mwester | A change was made some hours ago to nail down the specific version of the psplash package; looks like it isn't quite right. |
| 16:12.53 | jseghers_ | mwester: yes, someone didn't convert the "hand" image correctly |
| 16:13.11 | jseghers_ | mwester see http://pastebin.ca/694071 |
| 16:14.24 | jseghers_ | now I'm getting errors on "libidn" |
| 16:17.25 | *** join/#openmoko ossman_ (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 16:21.38 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@sg-swt5.se.eecs.uni-kassel.de) |
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| 16:23.32 | PBeck | hi |
| 16:23.43 | jseghers_ | hi |
| 16:23.53 | PBeck | hey jseghers_ |
| 16:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko Tenso (n=root@32.144.205.38) |
| 16:25.02 | jseghers_ | After fixing psplash, I ran into errors on libidn and popt... both of them, rebuilding worked... |
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| 16:31.46 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi_ (n=bedboi@129.24.27.25) |
| 16:31.58 | *** join/#openmoko zdanek (n=b@ams122.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 16:32.02 | zdanek | hi all |
| 16:32.22 | Sup3rkiddo | zdanek, hi mate |
| 16:32.28 | zdanek | I applied fix to bug 788 |
| 16:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@sg-swt5.se.eecs.uni-kassel.de) |
| 16:32.34 | zdanek | no hang ups |
| 16:32.57 | zdanek | but no clock, antenna, keybord etc. panel in upper right |
| 16:33.06 | zdanek | do you have the same? |
| 16:33.18 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@m2b0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 16:33.33 | zdanek | like when you power up gsm antenna and whole panel is gone then |
| 16:33.36 | zdanek | same bug |
| 16:33.40 | zdanek | is it connected? |
| 16:34.18 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:35.45 | zdanek | anybody has any idea? |
| 16:35.56 | thos | zdanek, no it's not |
| 16:36.09 | thos | zdanek, it sounds like you have an old version of the gsm applet |
| 16:36.20 | thos | zdanek, either that, or it still segfaults when you try to use it |
| 16:37.29 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=tsingtao@e179110011.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:39.20 | zdanek | i have latest packages from buildhost.openmoko.org |
| 16:39.36 | zdanek | i had even keyboard icon |
| 16:39.51 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 16:40.22 | zdanek | no i stopped gsmd to try gprs call (i never succeeded) and my neo failed again to connect and died after some seconds |
| 16:40.25 | zdanek | strange |
| 16:40.27 | zdanek | blank |
| 16:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:43.27 | zdanek | thos: where should I seek for segfault? in /var/log/messages? |
| 16:43.38 | zdanek | I watching it and no info |
| 16:44.27 | J-23 | :| |
| 16:44.50 | zdanek | I found reason |
| 16:45.09 | zdanek | I removed from /etc/matchbox/session gsmd restarting lines |
| 16:45.26 | zdanek | after putting them again the panel is back |
| 16:45.51 | zdanek | it's even asked me for PIN |
| 16:46.15 | zdanek | got gsm network! |
| 16:46.16 | zdanek | :D |
| 16:46.27 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@87.230.22.107) |
| 16:46.53 | zdanek | dialer works again xD |
| 16:48.04 | dcordes_ | how are phoen calls going? |
| 16:48.07 | dcordes_ | any reliable yet? |
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| 16:50.48 | zdanek | dcordes_: it's okay |
| 16:51.03 | zdanek | sound quality - like normal phone |
| 16:51.22 | zdanek | when doing outgoing call from neo - everything's ok |
| 16:51.47 | zdanek | but when incoming call hits neo sometimes dialer doesn't popup |
| 16:52.08 | zdanek | in calling phone you hear "calling tone" |
| 16:52.27 | zdanek | but on neo no dialer response |
| 16:52.44 | zdanek | it acts like no incoming call was at the momenyt |
| 16:53.05 | zdanek | I didn't try smses yet |
| 16:53.15 | zdanek | but now I will install app to do so |
| 16:53.56 | *** join/#openmoko RP (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net) |
| 16:56.48 | hhf423 | oooh, a new MS BT Mouse, how cool |
| 16:57.09 | dcordes_ | zdanek: good luck :) |
| 16:57.11 | zdanek | hhf423: did you try to connect it to neo? |
| 16:57.15 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 16:57.16 | dcordes_ | so incoming calls are unstable? |
| 16:57.58 | zdanek | thx |
| 16:57.58 | hhf423 | zdanek: you can not buy it yet. but I should try with my other BT mouse |
| 16:57.58 | zdanek | wait I'll try to call |
| 16:57.59 | zdanek | hhf423: maybe sbd will try keyboard |
| 16:58.00 | zdanek | that should be cool |
| 16:59.03 | thos | zdanek, what sms application? |
| 16:59.07 | thos | zdanek, I don't think there is one yet |
| 17:00.32 | jseghers_ | does anyone know if there are problems with the parallel build mechanisms? I'm tending to get errors where if I then go and rebuild individual packages things tend to work... |
| 17:00.43 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@86.157.93.91) |
| 17:00.50 | borg_ | thos: their is a small python app with which you can send sms |
| 17:00.59 | thos | borg_, fair enough |
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| 17:05.31 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 17:18.31 | zdanek | I do confirm - if you change from dialer to "today" applet - no incoming calls are seen by dialer |
| 17:19.02 | zdanek | I can hear dialing tone in my phone but no reaction on neo |
| 17:19.37 | hhf423 | hmm, ipkg upgrade gives: ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-pim: libspiff0 (>= 0.7.2) liburiparser0 (>= 0.5.1) |
| 17:21.06 | zdanek | and dialing out of neo doesn't work anymore |
| 17:21.07 | zdanek | :( |
| 17:21.16 | zdanek | brb |
| 17:24.42 | hhf423 | I can still dial out |
| 17:26.19 | hhf423 | but, right, if Neo is in Today, it rings but dialer pops not up |
| 17:26.28 | hhf423 | zdanek: will you file a bug? |
| 17:27.33 | ixs | hmmm |
| 17:27.37 | ixs | | psplash.c: In function 'main': |
| 17:27.37 | ixs | | psplash.c:260: error: 'HAND_IMG_WIDTH' undeclared (first use in this function) |
| 17:27.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03jserv * r2957 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/atcmd.c: |
| 17:27.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Fixlet to libgsmd-tool does not flush stdout in atcmd mode. |
| 17:27.43 | CIA-23 | openmoko: PR833 - http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=833 |
| 17:27.43 | ixs | known problem? |
| 17:28.47 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2958 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokopanelui2/libmokopanelui/ (Makefile.in moko-panel-applet.c): libmokopanelui: remove generated Makefile.in, try to fix rescaling bug wrt. MBPanelScaledImage |
| 17:28.51 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 17:28.58 | mwester | ixs: a number of folks have encountered that today. |
| 17:29.01 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:29.08 | mickeyl | oops |
| 17:29.11 | jseghers_ | ixs yes... look at http://pastebin.ca/694071 |
| 17:29.14 | mickeyl | sorry, will fix in a minute |
| 17:30.07 | ixs | thx |
| 17:38.21 | zdanek | hhf423: you mean to create a ticket on bugzilla? |
| 17:39.57 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178254022.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:42.07 | hhf423 | yes |
| 17:44.44 | *** part/#openmoko thos (n=thomas@orion.thos.me.uk) |
| 17:46.13 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 17:47.20 | mickeyl | mtpull |
| 17:47.24 | *** part/#openmoko kaps (n=kapil@122.163.194.150) |
| 17:47.26 | mickeyl | psplash bug fixed |
| 17:47.33 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@e178254022.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:47.49 | ixs | mickeyl: mtn finds two heads? WTF? |
| 17:47.57 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@e178254022.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:47.58 | jseghers_ | What am I doing wrong? I ran make update-makefile; make setup update openmoko-devel-image... However, I'm getting frequent stops where a package foo refuses to build, If I run make rebuild-package-foo, it succeeds and I can make a it more progress, but then another package won't build... |
| 17:48.08 | jseghers_ | repeat ad nausium |
| 17:48.08 | mickeyl | ixs: welcome to monotone |
| 17:48.10 | mickeyl | this can happen |
| 17:48.16 | mickeyl | just chose one |
| 17:48.23 | mickeyl | or wait until someone merges |
| 17:48.25 | mickeyl | and then pull again |
| 17:48.58 | ixs | mickeyl: YAY! :D |
| 17:49.08 | ixs | I'm feeling right at home. |
| 17:49.14 | ixs | same chaos as in my room. :) |
| 17:49.27 | mickeyl | well |
| 17:49.32 | mickeyl | s/chaos/distributed development/ |
| 17:49.40 | mickeyl | it's inevitable |
| 17:49.49 | mickeyl | but so much better than svn |
| 17:49.51 | mickeyl | :D |
| 17:49.59 | mwester | distributed development ~= chaos |
| 17:50.27 | mwester | but it should be chaos moving in the same general direction... |
| 17:50.54 | ixs | mickeyl: but someone merged it already |
| 17:51.09 | mickeyl | ya |
| 17:53.21 | XorA | it merges itself every 10 mins |
| 17:53.34 | hhf423 | mickeyl: did you get that? with the newest everything, the dialer does not pop up when a call comes in when the user is e.g. in Today |
| 17:53.54 | mickeyl | that's unfortunate |
| 17:53.56 | *** join/#openmoko neocoretech (n=neocoret@p57A55F7C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:54.06 | hhf423 | I would say so :-) |
| 17:54.33 | mickeyl | there's a lot in flux atm. wrt to phone functionality |
| 17:54.37 | dcordes | are there any news concerning fic's phase2 progress? |
| 17:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 17:58.15 | mickeyl | if you mean gta02, no news except v3 has gone gerber this week |
| 17:58.41 | *** join/#openmoko cooter (n=cooter@bhh141.students.ubc.ca) |
| 17:59.12 | DukeOfURL | went to Moto developer's conference yesterday |
| 17:59.35 | DukeOfURL | a Linux playform is planned, but not really available yet |
| 17:59.43 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.11.186) |
| 17:59.57 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:59.57 | DukeOfURL | basically, you'll develop your apps in JavaME for the time being |
| 18:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.202) |
| 18:00.13 | mickeyl | well, i lost my hope in MOTO, to be honest |
| 18:00.26 | mickeyl | i hope OM is there to kick enough ass before they release something |
| 18:00.27 | DukeOfURL | and then try to get Motorola to certify your app, and then get the carriers to certify |
| 18:00.32 | DukeOfURL | jump through hoops |
| 18:00.33 | mickeyl | heh, fun |
| 18:01.09 | mickeyl | given how good OpenMoko runs on EZX, i expect it to be a full replacement for the Motorola system in less than 6 months |
| 18:01.10 | jseghers_ | DukeOfURL: that's been Moto's stance forever... they're using J2ME as their app sandbox so they don't have to figure out the security issues for linux. |
| 18:01.12 | DukeOfURL | there's also UIQ on Simbian, but there's not much interest |
| 18:01.50 | DukeOfURL | if you beg and plead, they will give you a developers cert for you handset--it unloks all the APIs |
| 18:03.15 | seemant | DukeOfURL; you have the coolest /nick ever |
| 18:03.56 | DukeOfURL | most aren't old enough to remeber 60s music |
| 18:06.35 | DukeOfURL | mickeyl: i'm still having problems with psplash: http://pastebin.org/2307 |
| 18:06.45 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 18:06.59 | DukeOfURL | my cmd is: make update-makefile;make update setup;make openmoko-devel-image |
| 18:11.22 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: same problem here, I will fix shortly if mickeyl is not around ... |
| 18:11.33 | DukeOfURL | thx |
| 18:12.05 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:12.21 | DukeOfURL | forgot to mention... certifying your JavaME app with Motorola and/or your carrier costs big bucks $$$ |
| 18:12.51 | DukeOfURL | have to recertify each app within each locale |
| 18:14.58 | Stephmw | that's purely an operator/moto issue, it's not inherent in the technolody |
| 18:15.06 | Stephmw | it's a hassle though |
| 18:18.23 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@88-149-143-13.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 18:18.35 | Ghiottone | hi all |
| 18:20.00 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 18:20.18 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D9FA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:20.50 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: its already been fixed -- update your build and try again |
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| 18:31.45 | hp___ | they are rather large phones no?(EZX i mean) |
| 18:32.37 | DukeOfURL | and no GPS |
| 18:33.06 | hp___ | is that a must have these days? |
| 18:33.20 | hp___ | i like the htc touch.. its nice and small + no gps.. |
| 18:33.27 | DukeOfURL | cbrake: still no joy: http://pastebin.org/2311 |
| 18:33.56 | DukeOfURL | how do I re-download the psplash package? |
| 18:34.03 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky_ (n=kuyky@a81-84-127-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 18:34.12 | polz | anyone else having problems building openmoko-dates2 ? |
| 18:35.12 | DukeOfURL | Motorola downplays GPS on their phones. |
| 18:35.12 | polz | oh, and can someone here tell me how to see a list of .bb files bitbake can find ? |
| 18:35.23 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: try the following: source setup-env; cd build; bitbake psplash -c rebuild |
| 18:35.35 | polz | for some reason, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course isn't working for me. |
| 18:35.37 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 18:36.04 | Ghiottone | polz, find openembedded |grep bb$ |
| 18:36.24 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: the version number was not updated with the fix, so OE does not know to rebuild |
| 18:36.43 | DukeOfURL | There is no way to supply ephemeris data to the Motorola GPS |
| 18:37.00 | SpeedEvil | Fake GPS satellite. |
| 18:37.03 | DukeOfURL | They spent a lot of time explaining GPS using base station signal strength |
| 18:37.05 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: after the above completes, then continue with your build as before |
| 18:37.06 | vallor | polz: I'm doing a "make update" with the mokomakefile, then I'll (re-)try making it... |
| 18:37.07 | SpeedEvil | (no, not sensible) |
| 18:37.37 | Ghiottone | DukeOfURL, remove the source packge from the sources dir, then remove the build/tmp/stamps/arm4vt/psplash* files (or something like that) |
| 18:37.40 | polz | Ghiottone: now.. what if I've altered the BBPATH ? |
| 18:38.08 | Ghiottone | polz, altered how? |
| 18:38.09 | polz | Ghiottone: I'd like to somehow check whether bitbake is actually looking in my local dir or not |
| 18:38.38 | Ghiottone | polz, oh. then create an empty .bb file in one of the dir you put in BBPATH and try to build it |
| 18:38.38 | polz | Ghiottone: according to the Application_Development_Crash_Course in the wiki |
| 18:39.11 | DukeOfURL | cbrake: that worked! thanks. |
| 18:39.15 | polz | Ghiottone: I've tried that, it can't find it if I'm in the build dir (as mokomakefile seems to do it) |
| 18:39.16 | cbrake | DukeOfURL: great! |
| 18:40.54 | Ghiottone | polz, did you change setup-env ' |
| 18:41.40 | polz | Ghiottone: yep. |
| 18:42.07 | polz | Ghiottone: I'm pretty sure I've messed something up, that's why I'd like bitbake to tell me where it's looking for .bb files |
| 18:43.43 | Ghiottone | polz, do this: . setup-env; cd build; bitbake -e | grep BBPATH |
| 18:43.54 | polz | 10x |
| 18:43.57 | Ghiottone | polz, I have my local package dir at the end of the path |
| 18:44.28 | *** join/#openmoko khaoohs (n=khaoohs@74-129-4-11.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 18:50.10 | vallor | okay, here's the error I'm (still) getting when I try to build: ''ERROR: '/Desktop/Openmoko/moko/openembedded/packages/binutils/binutils-cross_2.18.bb' failed'' |
| 18:50.44 | vallor | ...and the makefile stops. |
| 18:50.57 | jseghers_ | Try make rebuild-package-binutils-cross |
| 18:51.02 | jseghers_ | See if that works. |
| 18:51.11 | vallor | okay, I shall! |
| 18:51.46 | jseghers_ | I'm having terrible problems with the makefile dying and needing to rebuild the offending package and then restart the openmoko-devel-image build. |
| 18:53.06 | vallor | hmm, it's complaining about things missing in tmp/cross/lib |
| 18:53.15 | vallor | libiberty.a is one... |
| 18:53.20 | polz | Ghiottone: I have it at the start of mine... |
| 18:53.29 | vallor | I'll c/p the error for your perusal... |
| 18:54.00 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:54.00 | polz | just where the Allmighty Wiki told me to put it ;) |
| 18:55.15 | vallor | http://ponzo.net/newshawk/for_your_perusal.txt |
| 18:55.47 | *** join/#openmoko thomas600 (i=MKPortal@p4FD6559B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:55.51 | vallor | ''ERROR: Exception:<class 'bb.build.EventException'> Message:('Function failed in task: /home/scott/Desktop/Openmoko/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/binutils-cross-2.18-r0/temp/log.do_stage.8041', <bb.build.TaskFailed instance at 0x7b14e18>)'' |
| 18:55.52 | jseghers_ | Did someone change something that is forcing all of the localization packages to be built? It seems that many (most?) of these packages that I am having to rebuild are ones with tons of localization packages. |
| 18:59.48 | Ghiottone | polz, so is it working now? |
| 19:00.09 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 19:00.40 | Ghiottone | vallor, I think the gcc version has changes. libiberty is part of its package. try rstarting from scratch if you can |
| 19:00.49 | Ghiottone | s/changes/changed/ |
| 19:02.23 | jseghers_ | polz: did you get past openmoko-dates2? My build stopped there but a rebuild-package-openmoko-dates2 fixed it. |
| 19:02.32 | vallor | Ghiottone: okay, I shall |
| 19:02.49 | vallor | apt: I shall, thank you |
| 19:02.49 | apt | You shall, thank you? |
| 19:03.08 | vallor | thank you very much! :) :) |
| 19:03.15 | polz | | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/polz/openmoko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/openmoko-dates2-0.1.0+svnr565-r0/jana' |
| 19:03.16 | polz | | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop. |
| 19:03.23 | polz | whaf... ? |
| 19:03.37 | ynezz | who's jana? :) |
| 19:03.42 | polz | Ghiottone: I'm trying to get past the build error |
| 19:03.49 | vallor | apt: did I trigger a macro, sir? |
| 19:03.57 | polz | I have 0 idea |
| 19:04.37 | vallor | well, I am grateful, sirs |
| 19:05.38 | polz | how can this sort of crap get into the official svn repository ? |
| 19:06.38 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 19:07.27 | vallor | oh cripes -- here I was, I thought I offended apt -- but it's a bloody bot, garrr! |
| 19:08.47 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 19:09.08 | Ghiottone | polz, try with make clean-package-openmoko-dates2 |
| 19:09.11 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:09.19 | Ghiottone | polz, then make rebuild-package-openmoko-dates2 |
| 19:09.42 | Ghiottone | lol @apt :) |
| 19:09.46 | polz | Ghiottone: tried it. I've now removed the .bb files in the hopes that the thing is fixed in svn, but it's not getting fetched |
| 19:10.20 | Ghiottone | polz, you don't have to do it. put the .bb file back in place |
| 19:10.43 | Ghiottone | polz, instead, remove any reference to openmoko-dates2 in the sources directory |
| 19:10.50 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2485.bb.online.no) |
| 19:11.13 | Ghiottone | polz, and from the build/tmp/stamps/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/ directory |
| 19:11.27 | Ghiottone | polz, that done, the rebuild will fetch the package again |
| 19:12.03 | polz | how can I force mokomakefile to fetch a single file from the repository ? |
| 19:12.30 | polz | I'll try that |
| 19:13.04 | *** join/#openmoko BadRobot (n=BadRobot@hkibrasgw1-fea9dd00-8.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:13.10 | Ghiottone | polz, it will do it as part of the rebuild-package if you remove the package_name_do_fetch stamp |
| 19:13.13 | BadRobot | hi there |
| 19:13.19 | Ghiottone | hey BadRobot |
| 19:13.29 | BadRobot | so how is the OpenMoko project going? |
| 19:13.30 | aloril | BadRobot: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:15.24 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@m3b0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 19:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 19:17.45 | BadRobot | CWow very nice |
| 19:18.03 | BadRobot | I loved the look of the boot |
| 19:18.23 | polz | yeah, it looks great |
| 19:18.33 | polz | and you get to look at it for a long time, and often :P |
| 19:19.54 | sandos | ;) |
| 19:20.07 | BadRobot | I like it,but how the technology goes I think it would be great to have Wifi ,HSPDA or 3G |
| 19:20.52 | BadRobot | so then it could compate with symbian and brew phones |
| 19:21.15 | BadRobot | but anyway it is a very great start |
| 19:21.47 | mjr | dude, the mass market version will have wifi |
| 19:22.01 | BadRobot | ok that is nice |
| 19:22.17 | vallor | meanwhile, I'm getting a message repetitively in /var/log/messages: http://ponzo.net/newshawk/problem1.txt |
| 19:22.18 | BadRobot | can I install any linux program or application on it? |
| 19:22.24 | bedboi | is anyone aware of a library that gives you all resolved and unresolved symbols of a shared object or an object file ? |
| 19:22.45 | bedboi | something similar to what objdump or nm do |
| 19:22.51 | mjr | pretty much anything (for ARM/EABI) |
| 19:23.41 | vallor | ldd ? |
| 19:24.00 | vallor | oh wait, that's libraries |
| 19:25.04 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 19:25.25 | vallor | or would "ldd -d -r" do the trick? :\ |
| 19:26.34 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: ping |
| 19:26.44 | BadRobot | check this out http://www.mobile-review.com/fullnews/main/index_eng.shtml#15671 |
| 19:26.45 | SpeedEvil | ong |
| 19:27.06 | BadRobot | they could change a bit the look of OpenMoko |
| 19:27.26 | Writchie | i came across a spec on an nxp 802.11b/g chip. Power Consumption 1.6mw standby, 385mW receive, 250mW transmit |
| 19:27.41 | Writchie | Atheros should be in the same ballpark |
| 19:28.14 | *** join/#openmoko anick (n=x@80.254.138.16) |
| 19:28.16 | SpeedEvil | more interesting is the power saving modes |
| 19:28.35 | Writchie | sleep 200 uW |
| 19:28.47 | SpeedEvil | I mean functional |
| 19:29.06 | Writchie | ? |
| 19:29.35 | SpeedEvil | powerdown RX when not needed |
| 19:29.48 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 19:29.48 | SpeedEvil | perhaps in cooperation with an AP |
| 19:29.58 | Writchie | like a BT park? |
| 19:30.51 | cw666 | Writchie: it's interesting RX is so high |
| 19:31.13 | Writchie | this is true also for BT - signal processing at high speed cost mucho power |
| 19:32.23 | SpeedEvil | sort of |
| 19:32.30 | cw666 | well, RX also might have some chatter back to the sender |
| 19:32.59 | SpeedEvil | Also fake sleep mode, with a server somewhere (ideally local) |
| 19:33.04 | *** join/#openmoko EnricoPalazzo (n=jo@c199110.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 19:33.33 | cw666 | that sort of power use is actually pretty high, i wonder if that's typical? |
| 19:33.40 | cw666 | it limits what you can do with it greatly |
| 19:33.44 | SpeedEvil | turn on radio for 1s, login to AP, poll your server to see if you have waiting packets, if not, go to sleep. |
| 19:33.48 | SpeedEvil | yes, it's typical |
| 19:33.55 | SpeedEvil | or rather low |
| 19:34.20 | Writchie | I also came across some comments where the OLPC is seeing 10ms sleep time and 400ms resume. |
| 19:34.21 | mjr | that's wifi for you |
| 19:34.29 | *** part/#openmoko BadRobot (n=BadRobot@hkibrasgw1-fea9dd00-8.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:34.33 | Writchie | cw666: the NXP is actually very low |
| 19:34.57 | Writchie | previous generation was 415mW receive 731mw@15dBm for transmit 802.11b only |
| 19:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_ (n=Pupeno@89-125-118-105.dhcp-ripwave.irishbroadband.ie) |
| 19:38.46 | Writchie | utlimate solution will need BT Class 1 and WiFi sharing the same antenna - Class BT + WiFi is necessary to meet UMA Spec |
| 19:39.07 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 19:40.14 | cw666 | Writchie: got a URL for that? |
| 19:40.33 | cw666 | nm, found it |
| 19:41.59 | *** join/#openmoko Administrator_ (i=Administ@dsl-245-142-143.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 19:42.13 | ScaredyCat | ^^^ windows user |
| 19:42.19 | cb22_ | :( |
| 19:42.26 | cb22_ | xchat doesnt like me |
| 19:42.41 | vallor | still doing the checkout -- and just realized, I'm doing it over my slow connection, woops! |
| 19:45.30 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 19:45.44 | anick | hm. rwhitby there? |
| 19:48.44 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-217-182.38-151.net24.it) |
| 19:54.24 | DukeOfURL | is there a way to restart the panel? |
| 19:55.48 | Ghiottone | restart x |
| 19:57.35 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-213-158.44-151.net24.it) |
| 20:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 20:13.37 | vallor | DukeOfURL: /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart |
| 20:14.25 | DukeOfURL | yes, got that. I'm in libgsmd-tool trying to get GSM to register with T-Mob |
| 20:15.15 | DukeOfURL | when I do AT+COPS=0 it hangs and won't accept another AT command |
| 20:15.26 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-215-147.44-151.net24.it) |
| 20:16.03 | vallor | DukeOfURL: I saw that before -- thing to do is in libgsmd-tool, say "O" (capital oh) to turn the radio on |
| 20:16.18 | vallor | if you tail /tmp/gsm.log you'll get an idea of when the radio is on |
| 20:16.28 | vallor | then you can "r" |
| 20:16.45 | DukeOfURL | I'm giving it AT+CFUN=0 to turn off and =1 to turn on |
| 20:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953AC73.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:17.40 | vallor | DukeOfURL: if you examine /etc/init.d/gsmd , you'll see that there is a magic /proc file that controls the hardware itself -- echo "1" into that file |
| 20:18.02 | vallor | sorry /etc/default/gsmd is where that variable is kept |
| 20:18.21 | vallor | here it is: /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on |
| 20:18.51 | *** join/#openmoko daltona (n=daltona@cap31-4-82-234-41-108.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-186-178.37-151.net24.it) |
| 20:19.39 | vallor | ... |
| 20:21.16 | DukeOfURL | I can get gsmd running, but giving it AT+COPS=0 command hangs the modem |
| 20:21.24 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: did you do the boot variable change? |
| 20:21.53 | *** join/#openmoko mwester-treo (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 20:22.11 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: did you remove "console=ttySAC0,115200" from bootargs_base |
| 20:22.15 | DukeOfURL | bootargs_base? yes. |
| 20:22.50 | vallor | mwester: are you running oe on a treo? |
| 20:23.00 | hhf423 | oh, new ipkg update / upgrades available |
| 20:23.44 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@214.sub-75-199-158.myvzw.com) |
| 20:23.59 | hhf423 | how do I run mediaplayer? |
| 20:24.25 | vallor | hhf423: oe = open embedded ;P |
| 20:25.18 | hhf423 | oh, its in the apps list |
| 20:25.43 | mwester-treo | vallor: no, just on irc from a treo as I travel. |
| 20:26.03 | vallor | snazzy :) |
| 20:26.47 | hhf423 | how do I create a playlist for that thing? |
| 20:27.22 | vallor | hhf423: you're using mplayer? |
| 20:28.57 | hhf423 | any other option? |
| 20:29.23 | vallor | madplay |
| 20:29.28 | vallor | but it is text-mode, too |
| 20:31.24 | vallor | in fact -- is there any matchbox-capable media player out there somewhere? |
| 20:31.27 | SpeedEvil | gmplayer should im principle work |
| 20:31.35 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db35f0b.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 20:32.28 | vallor | SpeedEvil: alas, it isn't in ipkg yet... |
| 20:34.13 | *** join/#openmoko faern (n=faern@faern.olf.sgsnet.se) |
| 20:35.57 | hhf423 | how does a xspf playlist look like? |
| 20:36.08 | DukeOfURL | is anyone getting audio on a completed call? |
| 20:37.43 | hhf423 | ah, found it |
| 20:38.08 | hhf423 | now I get "gstreamer error: ressource busy or not available" |
| 20:38.27 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178117059.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:39.33 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 20:40.01 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-4-178.37-151.net24.it) |
| 20:40.09 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:40.30 | *** join/#openmoko makeio (i=makeiop@77.Red-80-32-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:40.55 | hhf423 | mickeyl: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/c4b7ac0fecbca7b4d066dfb262979ffb.png |
| 20:41.09 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: what do you mean by that? |
| 20:41.27 | zefanja | hey...today there are some errors...i want to build a *.ext2 image and got this: http://pastebin.ca/694507 |
| 20:41.35 | DukeOfURL | hhf423: I can complete a call to another phone, but there is no audio. |
| 20:42.03 | hhf423 | with the current images? |
| 20:42.24 | DukeOfURL | yes, compiled about two hours ago. |
| 20:42.40 | hhf423 | DukeOfURL: does the neo make sounds when you tap on the dialer etc? |
| 20:42.47 | DukeOfURL | yes |
| 20:42.47 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 20:43.06 | hhf423 | well, then probably dialer forgets to change alsa profiles |
| 20:43.11 | hhf423 | it works for me, here |
| 20:43.20 | DukeOfURL | hmmm |
| 20:44.30 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-236-190.37-151.net24.it) |
| 20:51.11 | Ghiottone | hey all |
| 20:51.27 | Ghiottone | hhf423, killall pulseaudio |
| 20:52.12 | polz | how do I choose the headset mike instead of the handset mike ? |
| 20:52.12 | Ghiottone | DukeOfURL, there are alsa profiles in the /etc/ directory |
| 20:52.46 | Ghiottone | alsactl restore -f /etc/<whatever>.state |
| 20:53.00 | zefanja | I think there is a problem with the new date application |
| 20:53.32 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 20:54.28 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k963.webspeed.dk) |
| 20:54.45 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CD289.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:57.08 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 20:58.00 | Ghiottone | zefanja, try with make rebuild-package-openmoko-dates2 |
| 20:58.01 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 20:58.07 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: then I do not get the error message anymore, but I also do not get any sound |
| 20:59.05 | jpcass | Anyone see a problem with lobflac7 and loboggflac dependencies when building their openmoko-devel-image? |
| 20:59.21 | jpcass | s/lob/lib/ |
| 20:59.22 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-3b8979a7109a6c0c) |
| 20:59.31 | *** join/#openmoko faern (n=faern@faern.olf.sgsnet.se) |
| 20:59.55 | Ghiottone | hhf423, strange. it works for me after restarting the media player |
| 21:00.02 | hhf423 | polz: choose the appropriate alsa profile |
| 21:00.21 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E617.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:00.32 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: so I kill the player, I kill pulseaudio and I start the player and it should work? |
| 21:00.47 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-91-194.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:01.28 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host81-151-184-3.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:01.44 | *** join/#openmoko lartza (n=lartza@IP-62-216-116-107.telemail.fi) |
| 21:01.57 | tnb | I see problems in the current build with webkit-gtk not building. Known problem? |
| 21:02.51 | Ghiottone | hhf423, I kill pulseaudio and then the player |
| 21:03.00 | Ghiottone | hhf423, but it should be the same, I think. |
| 21:03.33 | Ghiottone | wow. cutecom is actually very cute :) |
| 21:03.35 | hhf423 | let me reboot |
| 21:05.46 | *** part/#openmoko EnricoPalazzo (n=jo@c199110.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 21:05.49 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: now I do not have no bootup sound |
| 21:06.40 | Ghiottone | hhf423, wow. I did not mean to kill it *this* hard |
| 21:07.13 | hhf423 | hahaha |
| 21:07.13 | Ghiottone | try resetting volumes. alsa save its state between reboots |
| 21:07.15 | hhf423 | crap |
| 21:09.36 | hhf423 | ha, alsactl restore -f /etc/stereoout.state did the trick |
| 21:10.44 | hhf423 | now let me call the neo |
| 21:10.52 | hhf423 | while it playing music |
| 21:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:11.37 | hhf423 | cool, dialer pops up, steals audio from mediaplayer |
| 21:11.47 | hhf423 | but does not return audio to mediaplayer |
| 21:12.30 | *** join/#openmoko cooter (n=cooter@bhh141.students.ubc.ca) |
| 21:14.06 | Ghiottone | hhf423, nice :) |
| 21:14.29 | hhf423 | this is fun. I need a bigger MMC :-) |
| 21:14.55 | hp___ | i wonder if Tomtom wil ever get ported |
| 21:15.05 | hp___ | to neo.. that would be awsome |
| 21:15.25 | hhf423 | hp___: its there for the N770, no? So its not impossible |
| 21:16.29 | hhf423 | ok, off to bed. |
| 21:16.41 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:19.07 | Ghiottone | hhf423, nite :) |
| 21:19.34 | hp___ | g'nite :) |
| 21:20.11 | hhf423 | thx |
| 21:21.16 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.202) |
| 21:23.27 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:23.42 | frma71 | hhf423 did you get mediaplayer to work ? I had to add an /etc/asound.conf to get it to work together with touch-click etc. |
| 21:24.02 | frma71 | ... for mixing ! |
| 21:27.15 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 21:30.41 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:32.53 | hp___ | 4gb Micro SD cards.. unbelievable.. |
| 21:33.09 | hp___ | thats just insane |
| 21:33.21 | Ghiottone | is that working? |
| 21:33.22 | hp___ | 52 Euro.. hmm maybee i should get me one |
| 21:33.38 | ynezz | 1TB soon :p |
| 21:34.13 | hp___ | hehe its going insane so who knows :) |
| 21:34.24 | hp___ | last i heard they could get 32Gb on one of them cards.. so |
| 21:34.34 | hp___ | not for sale yet i think |
| 21:36.26 | hp___ | http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/16/samsung-develops-8gb-microsd-card/ <<-- so who konws |
| 21:38.06 | hp___ | http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-MicroSD-Transflash-Adapter-Packaging/dp/B000SMVQK8 |
| 21:38.19 | hp___ | okie now i'm just going to order it and thats it.. |
| 21:43.29 | cw666 | i'd just like cheaper larger faster (UDMA) CF cards right now |
| 21:44.56 | rwhitby | morning |
| 21:45.48 | notserpe | hp: i just ordered one online for 53USD with adapter |
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| 21:46.22 | notserpe | er, the 4gb that is. |
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| 21:47.10 | cw666 | do those cards do wear leveling? |
| 21:48.29 | _buz | they should |
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| 21:48.58 | cw666 | really? i was under the impression a lot of cheaper cards didnt |
| 21:49.09 | _buz | according to WP they should have |
| 21:49.12 | _buz | also sd cards |
| 21:49.19 | cw666 | WP? |
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| 21:51.19 | hp___ | notserpe: same here.. with addapter and usb card reader: $52 |
| 21:51.52 | notserpe | what's the state of development for my NeoPod? :-) |
| 21:52.04 | hp___ | Pod?? :) |
| 21:52.05 | notserpe | er maybe that should be neonano? |
| 21:52.10 | hp___ | hehe |
| 21:52.18 | hp___ | time for some ZzzzZ over here |
| 21:52.21 | hp___ | g'nite :) |
| 21:52.25 | notserpe | I'm assuming somebody must be working on a media/music player instead of something more important |
| 21:52.40 | hp___ | hehe like who |
| 21:52.41 | notserpe | 'nite |
| 21:53.30 | notserpe | okay, when my 4gb arrives, it'll be me ;-) |
| 21:53.41 | frma71 | notserpe: The mediaplayer somewhat works, still early (=buggy and limited), but goot progress the last few days. |
| 21:55.43 | notserpe | anyone have any thoughts on security? selinux polcies for everything? |
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| 22:00.38 | Ghiottone | anyone here for answering about issues with projects.openmoko.org? |
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| 22:05.10 | madewokherd | notserpe: wine and selinux do not get along |
| 22:05.38 | madewokherd | oh wait, I'm in #openmoko |
| 22:06.15 | *** part/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@cpe-71-67-179-31.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 22:06.30 | Stephmw | dammit, and here I thought he was going to port wine to ARM |
| 22:08.40 | dcordes | wine and arm :D ? |
| 22:10.21 | mjr | Qemu's ARM host CPU status seems to be Testing, incidentally :] |
| 22:11.28 | mjr | there's always libwine, of course... |
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| 22:20.01 | jeremym1 | Does anyone know what order number they are now filling? Are they shipping any? |
| 22:20.01 | aloril | jeremym1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 22:47.57 | vallor | what package is this "media player" you guys were using? |
| 22:49.35 | borg_ | openmoko-mediaplayer2 |
| 22:50.01 | borg_ | but its more a musicplayer then a mediaplayer |
| 22:50.05 | borg_ | at the momment |
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| 22:50.37 | vallor | ah okay |
| 22:50.38 | vallor | thank you :) |
| 22:50.47 | orpheus | sweet |
| 22:50.51 | orpheus | usb host works |
| 22:50.57 | orpheus | <4>changing usb to host |
| 22:50.57 | orpheus | <6>usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using s3c2410-ohci and address 9 |
| 22:50.58 | orpheus | <6>usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice |
| 22:50.58 | orpheus | <6>hub 1-2:1.0: USB hub found |
| 22:51.13 | orpheus | a question though: |
| 22:51.19 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 22:51.24 | SpeedEvil | does it actually function though. |
| 22:51.34 | orpheus | what you see if a hum plugged into it |
| 22:51.36 | orpheus | *hub |
| 22:51.43 | SpeedEvil | that's the root hub |
| 22:52.02 | SpeedEvil | there are two host controller |
| 22:52.03 | orpheus | ah |
| 22:52.04 | SpeedEvil | there are two host controllers |
| 22:52.04 | orpheus | <6>usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-storage |
| 22:52.04 | orpheus | <6>USB Mass Storage support registered. |
| 22:52.08 | orpheus | yes |
| 22:52.10 | orpheus | yes it does |
| 22:52.14 | SpeedEvil | is that plugging something in? |
| 22:52.19 | orpheus | yep |
| 22:52.23 | vallor | dang, the media player doesn't seem to have made it to ipkg yet |
| 22:52.24 | SpeedEvil | What did you have to do? |
| 22:52.29 | orpheus | i even mounted my ausb stick |
| 22:52.33 | orpheus | *usb |
| 22:52.37 | orpheus | *man, i can't type |
| 22:52.45 | SpeedEvil | the patch in SVN, and my proposed one? |
| 22:52.47 | orpheus | i tweaked the patch in svn a bit |
| 22:52.57 | orpheus | was that yours? |
| 22:52.58 | SpeedEvil | to set the pullups |
| 22:52.59 | orpheus | yeah |
| 22:53.11 | orpheus | it also, well, kinda needed one other thing |
| 22:53.13 | SpeedEvil | I posted a tiny patch on the ML to do the pullups |
| 22:53.17 | orpheus | yeah |
| 22:53.25 | SpeedEvil | That I hadn't actually compiled. |
| 22:53.34 | orpheus | well, it does |
| 22:53.41 | frma71 | vallor: It's in packages/openmoko2 ! |
| 22:53.59 | vallor | oh -- thank you! |
| 22:54.03 | orpheus | i was under the impression it was some kind of convention that /sys knobs could handle trailing /n's and the like |
| 22:54.07 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[2] (n=Brescia@adsl-246-185.37-151.net24.it) |
| 22:54.19 | orpheus | that was the thing that i couldn't get for a bit |
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| 22:54.44 | orpheus | i needed to "echo -n" where i was "echo"-ing |
| 22:55.07 | orpheus | so i made the strcmp into a strncmp, and that did it |
| 22:55.28 | SpeedEvil | All we need now is to find the secret USB2 mode :/ |
| 22:55.37 | SpeedEvil | Though 1.1 is undeniably handy. |
| 22:55.45 | orpheus | waaait... can the hardware really do that? |
| 22:55.55 | orpheus | no friggin way... |
| 22:55.55 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 22:56.06 | SpeedEvil | Sorry. |
| 22:56.09 | orpheus | darn |
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| 22:56.17 | SpeedEvil | Annoyingly the next version can't either. |
| 22:56.28 | SpeedEvil | USB2 would be so nice for some things. |
| 22:56.40 | orpheus | my next task is to get v4l going so i can have a camera on this thing |
| 22:57.16 | SpeedEvil | What camera are you thinking of? |
| 22:57.19 | orpheus | actually, i've been directed at a 3d printed and told to re-make the back cover |
| 22:58.02 | orpheus | whichever camera is closest, at the moment, a logitech something |
| 22:58.03 | SpeedEvil | Much 3d printed stuff unfortunately has mechanically sucky properties. |
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| 22:58.35 | orpheus | this one lays it out layer by layer, so the layers are stong, but the bonding between them is not |
| 22:58.43 | orpheus | but still, good enough |
| 22:58.51 | orpheus | cameraphone, here we come |
| 22:58.55 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:59.01 | orpheus | but yeah |
| 22:59.09 | orpheus | what do I do with this patch now? |
| 22:59.17 | SpeedEvil | dunno. |
| 22:59.20 | orpheus | :/ |
| 22:59.25 | SpeedEvil | bugzilla? |
| 22:59.32 | orpheus | ... could work |
| 23:00.12 | orpheus | does anyone here have svn access and want to add usb host happiness? |
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| 23:00.46 | orpheus | also, after I discovered that the trailing /n was a problem, i tried something on a hunch |
| 23:01.05 | orpheus | i hadn't been able to force the phone to fast charge before |
| 23:01.45 | orpheus | but it's the same there, if you "echo -n " to /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgmod, it works |
| 23:01.55 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 23:01.59 | SpeedEvil | That's a bug IMO. |
| 23:02.15 | orpheus | so I'm wondering, yeah, is it supposed to be that way? |
| 23:02.15 | SpeedEvil | echo -n fast_cccv you mean? |
| 23:02.22 | orpheus | yeah |
| 23:02.56 | orpheus | this is needed, since i'm now on a charger, and my usb lines are going crazy places (to the hub) |
| 23:02.57 | vallor | so when I enter a playlist in the media player, it tanks |
| 23:03.11 | SpeedEvil | mpayer -playlist file? |
| 23:03.17 | SpeedEvil | works for me |
| 23:03.25 | vallor | SpeedEvil: no, the gui media player |
| 23:03.35 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:03.36 | vallor | SpeedEvil: it just came out |
| 23:03.37 | orpheus | mpayer, it's a tool for paying media... |
| 23:04.26 | frma71 | vallor: You need to create ~/playlist/ |
| 23:04.30 | frma71 | vallor: You need to create ~/playlists/ |
| 23:04.33 | orpheus | speedevil: thanks for making that change to the usb patch, i never would have sorted that out |
| 23:04.38 | vallor | frma71: !! okay |
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| 23:05.28 | orpheus | also: is /proc/bus/usb/devices deprecated or something? |
| 23:05.36 | orpheus | the neo doesn't have it... |
| 23:05.53 | SpeedEvil | it's a fake filesystem |
| 23:06.01 | SpeedEvil | you've got to mount /proc/bus/usb/devices -t none |
| 23:06.02 | orpheus | aah |
| 23:06.04 | SpeedEvil | or something |
| 23:06.19 | SpeedEvil | you've got to mount /proc/bus/usb/ -t none |
| 23:06.29 | orpheus | procbususb on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw) |
| 23:06.32 | orpheus | thanks |
| 23:06.50 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:07.28 | SpeedEvil | I was needing to work out how to turn the charger completely off - which that hint should do. |
| 23:07.41 | SpeedEvil | (to put internal power to the 5V pin) |
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| 23:08.05 | orpheus | speedevil: hunh? |
| 23:08.55 | orpheus | you mean, how to turn charging off? |
| 23:09.00 | orpheus | why would you do that? |
| 23:09.32 | orpheus | just make the funny three-headed cable... |
| 23:09.48 | SpeedEvil | Because if you're supplying 5V power from the battery in the neo, then leaving the charger enabled would be bad. |
| 23:10.21 | orpheus | that's the thing, the port on the side of the neo can't put out power on those lines |
| 23:10.30 | orpheus | or so I thought |
| 23:10.49 | orpheus | you don't even get a 5V source, do you? |
| 23:10.54 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 23:11.20 | orpheus | i mean, you could cross your fingers and hope that a usb device will run off of 3.7, or get a voltage multiplier |
| 23:11.40 | orpheus | but aren't voltage multipliers pretty inefficient? |
| 23:11.45 | SpeedEvil | I'm planning a for-sale accelerometer, USB power, and battery monitor module. |
| 23:11.51 | SpeedEvil | 90%+ in many cases. |
| 23:12.19 | orpheus | hurm |
| 23:12.21 | orpheus | cool |
| 23:12.29 | SpeedEvil | compromise on mass, volume, price, and efficiency |
| 23:12.34 | SpeedEvil | as usual. |
| 23:12.37 | orpheus | heh |
| 23:16.42 | vallor | if only it wasn't such a pain in the neck to get at the removable media |
| 23:16.46 | vallor | *sigh* |
| 23:19.52 | notserpe | speedevil: timeframe? |
| 23:20.13 | SpeedEvil | notserpe: at best a month |
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| 23:24.23 | notserpe | sounds good, how much? |
| 23:25.30 | SpeedEvil | Umm. |
| 23:25.54 | notserpe | I think I signed up on your interest page on the wiki IIRC. |
| 23:25.58 | SpeedEvil | Probably around $50 |
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