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| 00:14.20 | Aria | Re, all. |
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| 00:23.37 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, you've caused chaos :) |
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| 00:25.55 | SpeedEvil | how? |
| 00:26.24 | cb22 | someone has asked already on the wiki talk page |
| 00:26.27 | cb22 | about the date change |
| 00:26.38 | SpeedEvil | I should probably back that up. |
| 00:26.47 | SpeedEvil | with reasoning. |
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| 00:27.05 | cb22 | reasoning like 'i chose it randomly' :) |
| 00:27.45 | SpeedEvil | It's not going to be october. |
| 00:27.55 | cb22 | true |
| 00:27.55 | SpeedEvil | December is as reasonable a guess as any. |
| 00:28.11 | SpeedEvil | And if anyone with a clue actually updates it - bonus. |
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| 00:36.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 802 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net |
| 00:36.01 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko-dialer2 segfaults when first digit entered is '#' |
| 00:36.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=802 |
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| 01:04.07 | Akuma | hello |
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| 01:22.07 | hachi | the consumer version of the neo 1973, is this an allusion to new hardware, or just a stable software? Reason I ask is I want to get the Neo advanced, but fulfillment of my order seems unlikely to happen fast. |
| 01:22.29 | Aria | GAT02. New hardware, stable software. |
| 01:23.02 | hachi | so, if I order an advanced kit now, it may not arrive for a while, but I can't order it for the GAT02 yet? |
| 01:23.46 | Aria | Right. |
| 01:23.56 | Aria | Like most open source: "When's it gonna be ready?" "When it's done" |
| 01:24.06 | SpeedEvil | It's going to be several months till GTA02 hardware |
| 01:24.07 | hachi | well, I don't care so much about that |
| 01:24.38 | hachi | all I want to know is, if I order the advanced kit now, and the new hardware comes out before I get my order |
| 01:24.44 | hachi | am I still going to get the old phone |
| 01:25.05 | SpeedEvil | Very unlikely. |
| 01:25.27 | SpeedEvil | I mean - that the new version will be available that soon |
| 01:25.30 | hachi | the thing is, I want to throw money at the project NOW... and not wait on that :) |
| 01:26.33 | SpeedEvil | It's unfortunately not certain that an order now will result in even GTA01 hardware soon. |
| 01:26.53 | SpeedEvil | Though the odds are probably not bad. |
| 01:27.00 | SpeedEvil | Adn you will not be charged till delivery |
| 01:27.32 | SpeedEvil | the direct.openmoko.com site says no hardware till Sep 10 - if that's accurate, and if that batch has already been presold, who knows. |
| 01:27.42 | hachi | that's the other thing that scares me... I'd rather be charged now so I can't spend the money, but that's a bit awkward of a thing to ask |
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| 01:34.33 | cheriff | Hello, is the 'hold key' the power button? |
| 01:34.58 | cheriff | as opposed to the aux button on top-left shoulder |
| 01:35.41 | cheriff | which i assume are mapped to KEY_PHONE and KEY_PAUSE events, respectively? |
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| 01:52.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[SettingsGUI]] |
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| 02:16.11 | cesarb | Is anyone else having build errors on binutils-cross-2.18? |
| 02:16.24 | cesarb | (my build is breaking on it since yesterday) |
| 02:16.36 | rwhitby | 64-bit? |
| 02:16.41 | cesarb | rwhitby: yep |
| 02:16.47 | rwhitby | there's the root of your problem ;-) |
| 02:17.06 | rwhitby | it's working for 32-bit fine, but failing for 64-bit. |
| 02:17.20 | cesarb | rwhitby: I'm not running a 32-bit distro on my 64-bit CPU... it would not make sense |
| 02:17.35 | rwhitby | what application are you running which needs more than 4GB ram and thereby requires 64-bit? |
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| 02:17.47 | cesarb | rwhitby: none, but I like the extra registers |
| 02:17.51 | ajmitch | having access to all 4GB is a useful start |
| 02:18.09 | rwhitby | well, you choose your battles and optimisations I guess ... |
| 02:18.28 | cesarb | rwhitby: don't forget that I have a neo and stubbornly used dash when everyone said I had to use bash ;-) |
| 02:18.36 | cesarb | rwhitby: things won't get fixed if they don't break |
| 02:19.12 | rwhitby | cesarb: yep, I do know that you're one of the fixers, not the whiners. |
| 02:19.38 | rwhitby | anyway, that's the status - the build is broken for 64-bit. |
| 02:19.55 | cesarb | rwhitby: the whole reason I use linux is because if it breaks I can fix it ;-) |
| 02:19.57 | ajmitch | excellent |
| 02:20.11 | ajmitch | cesarb: what sort of errors? |
| 02:20.32 | cesarb | ajmitch: the last one was "mv: cannot stat `/scratch/cesarb/src/openmoko/build/tmp/cross/lib/libiberty.a'" |
| 02:26.12 | roh | hm.. i rather see a problem with #BB_NUMBER_THREADS .. if enabled it breaks the build for me.. |
| 02:26.36 | cesarb | roh: perhaps that's why it's disabled? |
| 02:27.03 | roh | no. its just not default |
| 02:27.13 | cesarb | rwhitby: it's installing into build/tmp/cross/lib64 instead of build/tmp/cross/lib |
| 02:27.34 | roh | was fixed some time ago, and i think i even know what broke it.. need to get a grab at some oe-guru tomorrow |
| 02:27.36 | rwhitby | yep, the #oe folks are aware of that. |
| 02:27.43 | cesarb | rwhitby: and do_stage wants to move build/tmp/cross/lib/libiberty.a into build/tmp/cross/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib |
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| 02:29.34 | cesarb | rwhitby: a hacky solution would be to change it into "mv -f ${CROSS_DIR}/lib/libiberty.a ${CROSS_DIR}/${TARGET_SYS}/lib || mv -f ${CROSS_DIR}/lib64/libiberty.a ${CROSS_DIR}/${TARGET_SYS}/lib" |
| 02:30.04 | rwhitby | cesarb: best to look in the OE bugtracker, and update the bug there. I won't be involved in diagnosing or fixing this. |
| 02:30.08 | cesarb | rwhitby: do you have any better ideas? if not, I will add that to my local overlay and go on... I still want to see if I can manage to hack into gsmd today |
| 02:30.13 | cesarb | rwhitby: ok |
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| 02:33.20 | roh | cesarb ah.. you know you can do that on your host now? |
| 02:33.22 | roh | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-uboot/2007-September/000109.html |
| 02:34.19 | cesarb | roh: yeah, but since the bug I want to work in is a timing issue, it's best to try on the device itself |
| 02:34.30 | cesarb | s/in/on/ |
| 02:34.36 | cesarb | urgh |
| 02:34.55 | cesarb | roh: not to mention that the bug manifests itself when the dialer tries to initialize the modem... |
| 02:34.55 | roh | i see |
| 02:39.32 | cesarb | yay, the build continued... should be ready tomorrow :D |
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| 03:12.33 | cesarb | Well, I created a (so far uncompiled and untested) patch which should in theory fix ombug 766 |
| 03:12.36 | cesarb | !ombug 766 |
| 03:12.38 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 766, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 03:12.39 | cdbot2 | * * cesarb(AT)cesarb.net: gsmd misbehaves on back-to-back AT+CFUN=1/AT+COPS=0 |
| 03:12.40 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=766 |
| 03:12.47 | cesarb | If someone wants to play with it, I put it at http://pastebin.ca/683328 |
| 03:14.04 | cesarb | I'm going to sleep now... After getting out of work late today (due to waiting the technician to fix the internet link), and having to wake up early tomorrow, I don't have time to even turn the neo on right now, much less fight with the quicksand build system |
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| 03:14.38 | cesarb | If nobody goes ahead with that patch, I'm going to test it tomorrow (if OE cooperates) |
| 03:15.05 | cesarb | Comments on the patch (like "it's an ugly hack!") welcome ;-) |
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| 03:48.48 | Akuma | I have a quick question. I was looking at the hardware development section on the wiki; has anyone tried to use Flash hard drives (kind of like whatever is being used on the iPhone and iPod Touch)? |
| 03:49.07 | Akuma | I couldn't find any reference to any such experiment |
| 03:49.53 | Aria | If they connect via USB or SDIO, I bet they'd work. If ATA, bet not, since there's no ATA interface on the Neo |
| 03:50.31 | Akuma | I see, so in theory it would be possible to actually replace the microSD with an actual Flash drive? |
| 03:50.37 | *** part/#openmoko ChanGux (n=ChanGux_@2002:c9f4:2e4f:1:217:f2ff:fe4d:4d73) |
| 03:50.49 | Akuma | if it took SDIO or USB |
| 03:51.01 | Aria | Yeah, physical arrangement issues inside. |
| 03:51.12 | Aria | And power for USB |
| 03:51.16 | Akuma | yea, I gathered a new casing would need to be made |
| 03:51.23 | Aria | (GTA02 will have powered USB; GTA01 needs external power) |
| 03:51.54 | Akuma | is this the kind of experiment i'd be able to do with the GTA02 dev board ? |
| 03:51.56 | *** join/#openmoko Who_ (n=jonny@88-111-26-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 03:52.02 | Akuma | (the 600 bux package) |
| 03:52.16 | Akuma | lol |
| 03:52.23 | Aria | Don't think it needs the dev board. If you can connect the pins, you can play. |
| 03:52.47 | Who_ | Is there any updated timescales on the GTA02? Is it still expected in October? |
| 03:52.48 | aloril | Who_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 03:52.49 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Toolchain]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers/es]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bogota]] [[MokoMakefile/es]] [[Talk:Testimonials]] |
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| 03:53.19 | Akuma | I was curious to know: I was looking for high capacity microSD (16G/32G) but couldn't find any |
| 03:53.34 | Akuma | so that would limit the neo to 8G max for now |
| 03:53.55 | Akuma | (I actually had a hard time finding any 8G microSD online for sale...) |
| 03:55.37 | Aria | Yeah, those are new. |
| 03:58.19 | Akuma | it'd be nice if they had 32G microSD, but that might be another while before they come out |
| 03:58.43 | Akuma | all things considered, the iPhone is also limited to 8Gb at this point |
| 03:58.50 | sagacis | I flashed with a kernel/rootfs from Scaredycat's repo. Now I don't know the ssh password to log into the phone. Any hints? |
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| 04:02.14 | moko-bunny | anyone failing build on libelf_0.8.6 (I see technil mentioned the problem on IRC yesterday, but no one replied to him)....think I should nuke build/tmp *again* ? |
| 04:05.41 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=Carsten@223.237.150.220.ap.gmo-access.jp) |
| 04:06.03 | raster | boo |
| 04:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 04:06.14 | moko-bunny | boo who? |
| 04:07.11 | raster | booya! |
| 04:13.28 | wiml | hey all ... I've been out of the openmoko loop for a little while. Looking to buy a device, but I see that the 02 hardware rev is due out pretty soon. So maybe I'll wait and get me some wifi. Any idea whether it's more-or-less on schedule? |
| 04:14.49 | xaid | wiml: it looks like there might be delays so the October date might become Dec. nothing official yet though, as far as i know. |
| 04:15.29 | Akuma | what's delaying? |
| 04:16.06 | xaid | i'm not a 100% sure, someone else here might have more information :) |
| 04:16.14 | rwhitby | nothing out of the ordinary. it just takes time to design, build and test complex hardware. |
| 04:16.31 | Akuma | ;) I was just curious, I can imagine the workload to be quite big |
| 04:16.48 | Akuma | I'm waiting myself to get my hands on a GTA02 |
| 04:17.41 | Akuma | is 02 going to be user functional or will it still be a developper device? |
| 04:17.53 | Aria | User functional. |
| 04:18.23 | Akuma | That's good, I'll be able to use it while playing around with it :D |
| 04:18.28 | wiml | well, and the 01 rev slipped quite a bit, so I expect the 02 will too. always hard t predict though. |
| 04:18.31 | *** join/#openmoko noop (n=noop@219.239.50.194) |
| 04:18.52 | Akuma | I'm sooo looking forward to this device |
| 04:19.04 | Akuma | in time I think it'll be the ultimate geek iPhone killer |
| 04:19.39 | noop | well,anybody here use moto E6? |
| 04:19.39 | aloril | noop: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 04:19.43 | Aria | If there's a version with multitouch, sure. |
| 04:19.47 | Aria | Getting there, that's for sure. |
| 04:20.00 | Akuma | is multitouch going to use the same hardware? |
| 04:20.11 | raster | the 02 has significant work. |
| 04:20.14 | Akuma | or will it need the actual touchscreen to be replaced? |
| 04:20.20 | Aria | No, needs a multitouch screen |
| 04:20.22 | xaid | The touchscreen does support multi-touch, right? so its only a matter of implementing it in the software. or am I wrong? |
| 04:20.29 | Aria | There's potential hacks to fake it, but it's a hardware thing |
| 04:20.30 | raster | the gfx divers alone are a mountain |
| 04:20.35 | raster | as none exist |
| 04:20.36 | Aria | No, it doesn't that I know of. |
| 04:20.38 | Aria | Yeah. |
| 04:20.50 | raster | and they need writing from scratch |
| 04:21.04 | Akuma | That's a pain |
| 04:21.14 | raster | and x drivers for complex hw are non trivial |
| 04:21.19 | Aria | For sure. |
| 04:21.29 | raster | esp. if u want opengl |
| 04:21.36 | Aria | F |
| 04:21.38 | Akuma | That's too bad for the multitouch... will we have to wait for a GTA03 before something like multi-touch is implemented? |
| 04:21.40 | Aria | F. Sure. |
| 04:21.48 | Aria | Probably, Akuma. |
| 04:22.08 | raster | thats in addition to all the other work on userspace aps, ui, etc |
| 04:22.15 | Akuma | Open stuff is always a loooong road, but hell it'll be nice when everything works fine |
| 04:22.37 | raster | as well as hw testing ,qa and othe misc hw changes etc |
| 04:22.59 | rwhitby | Akuma: GTA02 will go through the same P0 P1 P2 phase that GTA01 is currently going through. The only unknown variable is the timing of each of those phases. P0 for GTA02 has not begun yet as far as I know. |
| 04:23.09 | rwhitby | GTA01 is currently in P1 phase. |
| 04:23.19 | rwhitby | P2 phase is user functional |
| 04:23.58 | rwhitby | draw the timelines, and make your own conclusions as to whether the previously announced October date is feasible or not. |
| 04:24.07 | Akuma | Oh, I see, so the supposed October release is for GTA01 user functional or GTA02 P0? |
| 04:24.18 | rwhitby | that is unclear. |
| 04:24.20 | Akuma | lol, kind of mixed up |
| 04:24.21 | Akuma | okok |
| 04:24.23 | Akuma | I see |
| 04:25.02 | rwhitby | I personally (and I have no inside information) expect November GTA02 P0, January GTA02 P1, and no idea for GTA02 P2. |
| 04:25.16 | Aria | I'd bet the GTA02 iteration is faster. |
| 04:25.25 | Aria | Since it'll build on the GTA01 UI work. |
| 04:25.42 | rwhitby | That doesn't get you to P0 or P1 any quicker. |
| 04:25.44 | Akuma | so are the phases within the same device (say GTA02) just software modifications? |
| 04:25.56 | Akuma | or does it also include hardware changes? |
| 04:26.05 | Akuma | (I was also unclear on that) |
| 04:26.07 | rwhitby | Akuma: P0 to P1 included hardware changes for GTA01 |
| 04:26.13 | Akuma | Ok |
| 04:27.25 | Akuma | That's interesting :D Well, hopefully we won't have to wait too long |
| 04:27.32 | Akuma | I'm really eager to get my hands on one |
| 04:27.36 | rwhitby | Until everyone has reliable, rock solid GSM (including 850MHz), GPS, etc functionality working on P1 GTA02, you can't guarantee that a P1 release doesn't require hardware changes to get to 2. |
| 04:27.53 | raster | maybe the process needs to be made public and well documented |
| 04:27.56 | rwhitby | (oh, wifi too) |
| 04:28.14 | Akuma | (wifi is the main reason why I rather wait for GTA02) |
| 04:28.18 | raster | in terms of milestones, phases and current status |
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| 04:42.19 | raster | Akuma, if u want wifi... a good idea |
| 04:45.24 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 04:52.46 | myfanwy | l |
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| 04:55.04 | gcb77 | I just finished oding an update, and the NEO is now very unstable |
| 04:55.39 | gcb77 | It booted up 2/5 only, the rest hang on the "Please wait while the UI starts up..." |
| 04:55.54 | gcb77 | It hang 2/3 times on shutdown |
| 04:56.29 | CM | gcb77: Yes, recent images seem flaky |
| 04:58.48 | gcb77 | CM I had flashed with 0831 images, and it was stable until I did ipkg update/upgrade |
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| 05:15.28 | cw666 | gcb77: the latest kernel has issues for me too |
| 05:15.37 | cw666 | the modem power frobs usb networking on & off now |
| 05:15.45 | cw666 | that's very irritating |
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| 05:52.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Introduction/es]] [[Introduction]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Removal_of_free_space]] |
| 05:53.57 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 05:55.37 | doc|home | http://www.fukung.net/images/6129/LOL_check.jpg |
| 05:57.16 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-154-186-119.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 05:58.45 | abraxa_ | doc|home: Is it just me or is it e to the power of ipi instead of 2pi? |
| 05:59.32 | doc|home | abraxa_: that's not the point :( (and I don't know :) ) |
| 06:02.26 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@bb121-7-50-32.singnet.com.sg) |
| 06:04.42 | CM | abraxa_: 2*pi is good, you only need the i if you want the imaginary part too (or are calculating angles) |
| 06:09.06 | doc|home | abraxa_: from another channel: <*******> also known as the "dumb ass who can't tell a 2 from an i" check commentary |
| 06:09.30 | abraxa_ | CM: How is 2pi good? e^(ipi) = e^i * e^pi = e^(-1) * 23.14 |
| 06:09.48 | abraxa_ | doc|home: Ah, heh... guess I'm not the only one then |
| 06:10.54 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:11.52 | doc|home | abraxa_: yeah :) |
| 06:13.28 | cheriff | e ^ (i*pi) = -1 |
| 06:14.18 | cheriff | so the cheque is for two cents |
| 06:15.02 | *** join/#openmoko tnt_ (n=tnt@231.253-241-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 06:15.43 | abraxa_ | cheriff: Yep, you're right - wonder how I messed that one up |
| 06:16.34 | CM | abraxa_: If you're in my timezone (wich I doubt) it's 8:16 in the morning and not the right time for maths ;) |
| 06:16.53 | cheriff | heh, it's been a while for me too, had to get google to verify before saying anything :) |
| 06:17.02 | abraxa_ | It's 11:16pm here so not the right time for math here either, I guess ;) |
| 06:17.03 | CM | Hehe |
| 06:17.12 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 06:17.32 | cheriff | i guess 16:16 must be the good time for maths then :) |
| 06:17.48 | abraxa_ | Or 3:14pm |
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| 06:18.44 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 06:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@rd.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 06:19.20 | Any_key|work | morning is good (confirmed) |
| 06:19.37 | emdete | good? hm... gray here. |
| 06:22.19 | folken | bluesky, green rolling hills, cool temprature. |
| 06:22.27 | Any_key|work | doesn't matter, it's also gray here, good |
| 06:23.05 | Any_key|work | folken, sounds nice countryside? |
| 06:23.54 | folken | Any_key|work: currently commuting to work via train, from small city to larger city. (olten) -> (Basel) |
| 06:24.40 | Any_key|work | folken, hey nice, train sounds |
| 06:25.39 | folken | Any_key|work: unfortunatly switzerland has hitech trains.. therefore almost no sound at all. :) |
| 06:26.16 | folken | ruins all the fun. |
| 06:27.08 | Any_key|work | folken, come here to Russia, we have nice wild trains with LOT of sound. |
| 06:27.19 | gcb77 | I made the mistake of putting gsmd stop/start in matchbox session after new kernel upgrades |
| 06:27.22 | Any_key|work | folken, not domesticated ones |
| 06:27.29 | gcb77 | Not it hangs every single time at startup |
| 06:27.44 | gcb77 | and it does not respond to ssh either :( |
| 06:28.50 | folken | Any_key|work: ah yes, that would be _very_ different indeed. |
| 06:29.06 | folken | gcb77: init=/bin/sh maybe? |
| 06:29.48 | gcb77 | folken: from uboot menu? |
| 06:30.12 | folken | gcb77: via usb-serial ? |
| 06:30.57 | folken | from uboot yes. |
| 06:31.04 | *** join/#openmoko orion_ (n=orion@124-171-178-226.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 06:31.55 | gcb77 | can you do that without a debug board? |
| 06:32.12 | rwhitby | yep, ttyACM0 during boot and hit a key to halt uboot |
| 06:32.21 | rwhitby | you gotta be quick |
| 06:33.01 | gcb77 | got to use serial comm program on host side, right? any suggestions? |
| 06:33.11 | polz | rwhitby: or you can just hold the aux key and then press power |
| 06:33.30 | polz | gcb77: minicom works fine. |
| 06:33.31 | folken | gcb77: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Accessing_the_bootloader_prompt |
| 06:33.41 | rwhitby | polz: yeah, that too - I'm used to doing it remotely :-) |
| 06:34.28 | gcb77 | folken: awesome, thank you |
| 06:34.45 | folken | gcb77: np |
| 06:36.03 | polz | folken: can you open a window manually on one of these new-fangled trains ? |
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| 06:41.26 | *** part/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 06:41.28 | gcb77 | grr, always something... openSuSE doesn't know of cu RPM |
| 06:47.37 | *** part/#openmoko emdete (n=mdt@total-communication.vfnet.de) |
| 06:48.51 | gcb77 | ckermin work ok |
| 06:48.59 | gcb77 | s/ckermin/ckermit/ |
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| 06:59.50 | gcb77 | hmm, that's interesting, I dont have bootargs only bootargs_base |
| 07:00.18 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 07:00.32 | emdete | hi... |
| 07:01.13 | cheriff | gcb77: the 'boot' command builds bootargs just before starting the kernel |
| 07:01.57 | gcb77 | I see |
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| 07:13.12 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 07:14.24 | gcb77 | anyone know if there's a new snapshot image coming soon? |
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| 07:53.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] |
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| 08:48.19 | tuukkah | umm, is there going to be GTA01 P2? |
| 08:49.02 | Placid | GTA02 = P2 |
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| 08:55.45 | mjr | actually, GTA02 will remain in P1 at first since the software won't likely be ready when the hw is |
| 08:56.25 | mjr | (or so the Moko guys have indicated) |
| 08:56.47 | Psi_ | hopefully once GTA02 hardware is done they will have time to focus back on the sw |
| 08:59.32 | wibbit | What does P1/ P2 mean? |
| 08:59.41 | Psi_ | phase |
| 09:00.01 | CM | Phase 1 was Developer release, and Phase 2 was supposed to be retail |
| 09:00.26 | emdete | CM: /was/? |
| 09:00.26 | CM | Still is I guess, but I can't imagine that it will be in october (at least not this year ;) |
| 09:01.02 | CM | As mjr said, I guess they need a P1 with gta02 too |
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| 09:01.40 | emdete | hopefully they do. i don't care if the software is not fully done... :) |
| 09:02.33 | Psi_ | i reckon once the dialing/sms works most hackers will start to use the neo as their main phone and that will result in much more 3rd party app work |
| 09:03.23 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.157.140.236) |
| 09:04.50 | CM | Psi_: I agree.. Once the build system is at least somewhat stable and the base libs work things will speed up :) |
| 09:05.10 | wibbit | Okay, I thought that was the case, but wanted to make sure. |
| 09:06.03 | mjr | Psi_, yeah that has kinda reduced my motivation too, that I can't use it as a very basic and power-hungry phone even with gritting teeth |
| 09:06.41 | wibbit | Personally, I think I strongly agree with the fact that the primary thing the company needs is a stable peice of hardware, that is as open as possible, once that is provided, then work on the software. |
| 09:06.51 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03werner * r2930 10/developers/werner/sandw.ps: Holes for "sandwich" board stack holders. |
| 09:06.53 | Any_key|work | how can I force OM2007.2 to build, using Debian Sid, filed at webkit |
| 09:07.33 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@62-2-90-134.static.cablecom.ch) |
| 09:08.03 | Any_key|work | s/filed/failed/g |
| 09:08.27 | emdete | Any_key|work: currently mine fails much earlier: at qemu... |
| 09:08.30 | wibbit | I think there is slightly too much pressure from "the community" to get every thing now. The openness in some ways, is a detriment. |
| 09:09.08 | ScaredyCat | if the p1 isn't stable hardware then they didn't test properly. |
| 09:09.09 | *** join/#openmoko polac (n=polac@194.100.54.130) |
| 09:09.23 | Psi_ | heh, just loaded the keyboard twice by accident |
| 09:09.24 | ScaredyCat | personally I think it's software problems |
| 09:09.26 | nab | apt: Hey there |
| 09:09.27 | apt | hmm... there is not here |
| 09:09.40 | nab | apt: I am getting the same glibc linking error with webkit on Debian Etch |
| 09:09.40 | apt | it is my pleasure to meet you, getting the same glibc linking error with webkit on Debian Etch |
| 09:09.50 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 09:10.10 | Any_key|work | apt, OMG |
| 09:10.10 | apt | omg is probably what ppl say when they see a printed copy of the CORBA specs. "OMG! IT'S HUGE!". Oh My God |
| 09:10.31 | nab | Any idea how to resolve the build error yet..? |
| 09:10.52 | wibbit | I never said any hardware was unstable |
| 09:11.10 | XorA | CORBA coulda rocked |
| 09:11.13 | ScaredyCat | .. it also doesn't help that with each build/update we seem to take 6 steps backeards |
| 09:11.17 | XorA | instead it titaniced |
| 09:11.21 | ScaredyCat | backwards |
| 09:12.13 | Any_key|work | nab, not yet, tried to install every QT related .dev package, till now it doesn't helped |
| 09:13.05 | nab | Hmmmm |
| 09:13.44 | nab | Has that build failure been added to bugzilla..? |
| 09:14.49 | Any_key|work | don't think so |
| 09:15.31 | nab | If someone has the errot output handy, please add it |
| 09:15.35 | nab | s/errot/error |
| 09:15.50 | nab | Otherwise, when I get back to my devel machine tomorrow, I can post the log |
| 09:17.12 | Any_key|work | I just installed libwebkitgdk-dev libwebkitgdk-dev libkjsembed-dev, let's see |
| 09:17.45 | Psi_ | ScaredyCat, your link on the wiki to http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/packages/scaredycat.conf is now dead |
| 09:18.11 | ScaredyCat | I'm in th middle of rsyncing Psi_ |
| 09:18.17 | Psi_ | ah, ok :) |
| 09:18.57 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 09:18.58 | CM | I finished a build this morning, synced last night |
| 09:19.14 | Any_key|work | nab, NAH !!! |
| 09:19.54 | CM | Only one problem on amd64 and that was binutils-cross, fixed by this http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2928 |
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| 09:22.19 | Any_key|work | nab, http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=784 |
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| 09:24.26 | nab | Any_key|work: Hmm, the one I am seeing are linker failures a shared library.. |
| 09:24.43 | nab | Like libuico.so or something |
| 09:25.06 | nab | Anyways, gotta head to sleep. :P |
| 09:25.10 | nab | I will follow up tomorrow |
| 09:25.11 | nab | Thanks folks |
| 09:25.16 | Any_key|work | I got libicui18n.so |
| 09:25.27 | nab | Any_key|work: There we go |
| 09:25.30 | nab | Thats it |
| 09:25.41 | Any_key|work | GN nab |
| 09:25.54 | nab | :-) |
| 09:25.55 | nab | GN |
| 09:29.33 | CM | nab: That fix is in bugzilla too |
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| 09:33.20 | ScaredyCat | Psi_: done |
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| 09:39.46 | Psi_ | :) |
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| 09:53.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[P1_Owners]] |
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| 10:12.21 | raster | booh |
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| 10:18.15 | zash_se | hm, lunch, what to eat? |
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| 10:24.29 | douglasf__ | I have sausage and mash :) |
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| 10:58.17 | rwhitby | morning |
| 11:00.22 | Richard_ | morning |
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| 11:53.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] [[Applications]] [[User:CesarB/Requirements]] [[Talk:Neo1973]] |
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| 11:56.52 | ixs | mhm. is fakeroot problematic with anyone else? it seems patching it fails here. |
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| 12:00.16 | roh | ixs known.. mompls |
| 12:00.45 | ixs | roh: no problem, fixed it locally. |
| 12:00.53 | ixs | i just wanted to see if it's only me. |
| 12:02.08 | roh | some patch gets applied twice.. remove the line from fakeroot-native to get it building clean |
| 12:02.45 | ixs | yeah, that's what I already did locally. |
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| 12:19.14 | XorA | roh: pushed fakeroot fix |
| 12:19.51 | roh | XorA thanks |
| 12:20.27 | roh | XorA i had quite some time tonight with bb. seems i slowly get how it works |
| 12:25.14 | ScaredyCat | can you write some docs then :) |
| 12:29.15 | roh | no... there are docs.. which did not help me.. i will rather work with somebody who really can write howtos. |
| 12:29.40 | ScaredyCat | the dosc on the oe site have big chunks missing... |
| 12:29.43 | ScaredyCat | docs |
| 12:31.20 | XorA | ScaredyCat: we are hackers, not authors |
| 12:32.11 | ScaredyCat | that's th worst excuse ever |
| 12:32.14 | ScaredyCat | the |
| 12:32.47 | ScaredyCat | I'm not a landscape gardener, but I can mow the grass |
| 12:33.06 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 12:33.24 | XorA | ScaredyCat: does it look as good as a well crafted garden? I doubt it. Well then apply same logic to the OE docs |
| 12:34.12 | ScaredyCat | you don't need to write good docs, you just need to explain stuff so that someone who can write good docs can do it... |
| 12:34.19 | XorA | it always amazes me that people who don't write docs think that others are awesome doc writers just by some mirical that they can write C code |
| 12:34.30 | ScaredyCat | as it stands .bb files are spaghetti |
| 12:34.47 | ScaredyCat | I do write docs |
| 12:34.48 | XorA | welcome to the real world of code |
| 12:34.51 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484E39A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:35.04 | ScaredyCat | no, that's the myth you like to ide behind |
| 12:36.11 | XorA | ScaredyCat: wow its amazing you are so arrogant you know my whole education CV and skillset |
| 12:36.32 | ScaredyCat | well, either you can read or write or you can't |
| 12:36.40 | ScaredyCat | if you can - you can write docs... |
| 12:36.43 | ScaredyCat | it's that simple |
| 12:37.33 | ixs | make flash-qemu-local seems somewhat broken in flash.sh. |
| 12:37.36 | ixs | known problem? |
| 12:38.04 | CM | ixs: What's the problem? |
| 12:38.10 | CM | Last I heard it worked |
| 12:38.17 | ScaredyCat | XorA: you just don;t get it do you |
| 12:38.33 | CM | ScaredyCat: It's not that hard to write documentation, but it's painfully boring |
| 12:38.37 | ixs | CM: the sleep binary is being called here with parameters which seem to belong into the uboot environment... |
| 12:38.46 | ixs | $2 is populated with the wrong stuff. |
| 12:39.00 | ScaredyCat | I know that CM ... but the point is XorA is trying to make out that it's difficult. |
| 12:39.02 | CM | I'd demand twice my pay if was supposed to write docs instead of code |
| 12:39.12 | XorA | ScaredyCat: I do, but I also contribute, if you hate the docs that much get your arse in gear and do some work, dont whine at me, telling me Im a brilliant author when that is horses shit |
| 12:39.29 | ScaredyCat | as I said, XorA doesn't need to write good docs, just ones that someone else can use to learn and write better ones |
| 12:39.35 | ixs | CM: see http://pastebin.ca/683918 |
| 12:40.27 | CM | ixs: Hmm.. That sure looks weird. |
| 12:40.30 | ScaredyCat | XorA: what I'm telling you is that if you write something to explain the spaghetti that .bb;s are I *WILL* write the fucking docs |
| 12:41.04 | CM | If rwhitby is around you should notify him about it. I don't know what's wrong with that |
| 12:41.37 | ScaredyCat | that doesn;t look good ixs |
| 12:41.57 | ScaredyCat | thanks... |
| 12:41.59 | ixs | ScaredyCat: agreed. |
| 12:42.15 | ScaredyCat | I've been wading though the oe docs... :/ |
| 12:42.46 | ixs | CM: mhm, check line 72 and 73. that normal? |
| 12:42.57 | cb22 | ScaredyCat, what docs are you talking about? |
| 12:43.16 | ScaredyCat | oe |
| 12:43.25 | CM | ixs: What dir are you building in? |
| 12:43.49 | ixs | CM: come again? |
| 12:44.05 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 12:44.18 | CM | ixs: Where do you run make flash-qemu-image? In /NotBackedUp/moko/? |
| 12:44.19 | ScaredyCat | cb22: this is a good example on the .bb format.... http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Bbfile |
| 12:44.25 | ixs | CM: jupp |
| 12:45.05 | CM | ixs: And you don't have any u-boot in /NotBackedUp/moko/build/tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01/? |
| 12:45.19 | CM | Have you masked the building of u-boot or something? |
| 12:45.30 | ixs | CM: correct. There's uImage et al though. |
| 12:45.34 | ixs | nope, nothing manually masked... |
| 12:45.37 | CM | Arghh... !! |
| 12:45.52 | douglasf__ | ScaredyCat: helpful, though, I don't think it's fare to refer to that as spaghetti, spaghetti has content :) |
| 12:46.11 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:46.32 | ScaredyCat | lol douglasf__ - that was a non example of spaghetti |
| 12:46.42 | CM | ixs: Strange.. I know mickeyl did something with the u-boot deps last night, but I didn't pay attention to what |
| 12:47.07 | CM | ixs: Try building uboot and see if that helps? |
| 12:47.07 | ixs | CM: mhm. maybne we just wait till he's back. ETA? |
| 12:47.34 | Wibbit | ScaredyCat: Documentation does suck though, so tedius, but it does need doing. |
| 12:49.35 | ScaredyCat | I'm happy to help with the docs... but I need the inital assistance understanding |
| 12:49.43 | *** join/#openmoko lsobral (n=sobral@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:50.13 | CM | ScaredyCat: Same here.. |
| 12:50.48 | Wibbit | ScaredyCat: I know :\ |
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| 12:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko david35633 (n=kresp0@192.150.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 12:52.32 | CM | I should update this page too http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro |
| 12:53.12 | CM | Or someone should at least. It's not exactly up to date with the requirements for bb-1.8.x |
| 12:53.24 | CM | sqlite3 and pysqlite2 for example |
| 12:53.57 | CM | Or maybe that should go in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ? |
| 12:55.25 | Wibbit | ScaredyCat: It will be interesting to see the documentation for the Neo when it comes out |
| 12:55.34 | Wibbit | If GTA02 = P2 |
| 12:56.41 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 12:57.30 | ScaredyCat | hehehhe |
| 12:58.06 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@office.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 12:58.12 | rwhitby | CM, ixs: the flash script is written and maintained by someone in OM, not by me. |
| 12:58.27 | CM | rwhitby: Ah, ok |
| 12:58.34 | ixs | ic |
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| 13:00.50 | rwhitby | if we need to make sure that u-boot is built before qemu stuff, then I can probably help with that ... |
| 13:01.12 | rwhitby | (once I verify that uboot-openmoko builds for me today - it hasn't for the last couple of days) |
| 13:07.22 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@cpe-71-67-167-185.neo.res.rr.com) |
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| 13:22.41 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2931 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): |
| 13:22.41 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.c: |
| 13:22.41 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.h: |
| 13:22.41 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Add GError to moko_gsmd_connection_set_antenna_power () |
| 13:23.52 | *** part/#openmoko alexzhang (n=alexzhan@219.133.177.108) |
| 13:26.21 | *** join/#openmoko Chairboy (n=chatzill@c-24-22-81-82.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
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| 13:27.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2932 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 13:27.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (moko_dialer_class_init), (moko_dialer_init): |
| 13:27.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: - Add support for displaying GError messages |
| 13:27.46 | CIA-23 | openmoko: - Handle new GError in moko_gsmd_connection_set_antenna_power () |
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| 13:28.39 | *** part/#openmoko emdel (n=emdel@host22-220-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:30.37 | ScaredyCat | blah! |
| 13:31.23 | zash_se | a thing about the gui, there's no simple back-button? |
| 13:36.28 | emdete | is there a work-around to build qemu? |
| 13:40.29 | ixs | emdete: what is exactly failing? fakeroot-native? |
| 13:42.15 | *** join/#openmoko Vozka (n=Miranda@183-customer13.wms.cz) |
| 13:42.36 | Vozka | hello |
| 13:43.24 | Vozka | is there anybode patient enough to ask a lame question? (I wasn´t able to find answer at the wiki) |
| 13:43.25 | aloril | Vozka: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:43.59 | aloril | hehe, better ask than ask to ask ;-) |
| 13:45.29 | DPThought | redundant questions. very anoying. ;) |
| 13:47.15 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD2F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:49.02 | emdete | ixs: qemu build: /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/qemu-native-0.9.0+cvs20070613-r5/qemu/linux-user/syscall.c:296: error: `ENOKEY' undeclared here (not in a function)... and so on |
| 13:50.17 | Stephmw | oh dear.. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472370#c2 |
| 13:50.33 | ixs | emdete: never seen that but sounds as if you're missing some header file. |
| 13:51.11 | ScaredyCat | Vozka: what is the question... ? or was that hte question? |
| 13:51.29 | emdete | ixs: no, there is no error before that... and i did a complete clean-run several times now... |
| 13:51.56 | Vozka | ScaredyCat, how does the 3d acceleration on Neo1973 work? Will there be any possibility to port OpenGL applications? |
| 13:52.08 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0D37C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:53.18 | SpeedEvil | The driver is developed by FIC |
| 13:53.27 | SpeedEvil | as the datasheet of the chip is under NDA |
| 13:53.28 | emdete | ixs: so you compile and do not have that error? |
| 13:53.43 | ixs | emdete: yeah |
| 13:53.46 | ScaredyCat | Vozka: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals |
| 13:53.54 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 13:54.06 | SpeedEvil | that's an accelerometer, not a 3D graphics accel |
| 13:54.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Accessories]] [[Wishlist_-_Hardware_-_Novel_Devices]] [[SettingsGUI]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 13:54.13 | emdete | ixs: i did rm -rf...; wget ...; make ... (all the steps needed). hm. probably the box... |
| 13:54.37 | Vozka | yes, i was talking about 3d graphics acceleration ;) |
| 13:54.55 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-193-160.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:55.10 | CM | Stephmw: *lol* |
| 13:55.54 | SpeedEvil | Vozka: openGL will presumably be how it's done. |
| 13:56.12 | ScaredyCat | ~bame SpeedEvil for that link |
| 13:56.23 | XorA | GLES is more likely |
| 13:56.23 | ScaredyCat | ~blame SpeedEvil for that link |
| 13:56.23 | apt | ACTION blames chihchun and perhaps SpeedEvil for that link and all the evil in the world |
| 13:56.37 | SpeedEvil | But it can only be implemented by FIC - so all features that the chip supports may not function immediately. |
| 13:56.42 | chihchun | ? |
| 13:57.10 | CM | chihchun: apt can't just blame SpeedEvil can he? :D |
| 13:57.33 | emdete | SpeedEvil: how far is the driver anyway? is 2d acc. working in x11? |
| 13:57.51 | *** join/#openmoko psymin (n=psymin@smtpstatic.blackfoot.net) |
| 13:58.11 | anrp | without hardware that is hard to say |
| 13:58.57 | CM | emdete: afaik, there's not much of a driver at all yet |
| 13:59.53 | emdete | CM: the nice diplay kills the animation of my app ;) so i really would like to see 2d acc. ... |
| 14:00.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2933 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 14:00.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked): Inform user if dialer is busy |
| 14:00.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: or network is not registered when attempting to dial |
| 14:00.44 | CM | Heh, 2d acc will not be a problem. At least if I remember correctly what the people involved have said |
| 14:01.20 | Stephmw | hmmm, first neo hits ebay |
| 14:01.36 | cjb_ie | thought there was one already |
| 14:01.40 | cb22_ | CM, i hope you remembered correctly :) |
| 14:02.41 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c-68-35-124-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 14:02.47 | CM | cjb_ie: Hmm.. You might be right on that. I guess we'll hear about it soon anyway :) |
| 14:02.57 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 14:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 14:03.25 | DPThought | off topic: this way i may have learned math in school http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/substitute.png *g* |
| 14:03.55 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 14:04.09 | cb22_ | xkcd rules |
| 14:04.14 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:04.42 | CM | cb22_: Sure does :) |
| 14:05.48 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
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| 14:09.01 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 14:09.11 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it only raw framebuffer has been done. |
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| 14:09.41 | SpeedEvil | If the team size in FIC does not increase, I'd expect it to be completed sometime 2009 |
| 14:09.49 | CM | Hehe |
| 14:09.55 | cb22_ | SpeedEvil, thats what you'd expect |
| 14:10.10 | cb22_ | however, one month before the release it would be delayed by 2 more years :p |
| 14:10.17 | mickeyl | heh |
| 14:10.38 | mickeyl | team size will increase soon. i wouldn't worry about these 2d drivers. once we announce who's going to write them you will be reliefed :D |
| 14:10.55 | CM | mickeyl: That's good news indeed! :) |
| 14:10.58 | ScaredyCat | stop eating burrgers then |
| 14:11.00 | cb22_ | nice |
| 14:11.09 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 14:11.40 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: Can you clarify what the earlist possible sales of GTA02 to developers might be - if everything falls right. |
| 14:11.50 | SpeedEvil | I'm assuming it's not october. |
| 14:11.52 | mickeyl | i would love to, SpeedEvil |
| 14:12.04 | ScaredyCat | yaaay |
| 14:12.12 | ScaredyCat | top bar didn't crash |
| 14:12.12 | mickeyl | but i can't at this point. gta02v2 verification is in progress, we need to wait until this is finished to make any guesses |
| 14:12.21 | SpeedEvil | Umm, no you don't. |
| 14:12.23 | cb22_ | mickeyl, did you find out what went wrong with your dev board? |
| 14:12.26 | woglinde | speedevil I think too, but I can live with that |
| 14:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko exastra (n=go@c-24-21-152-246.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 14:12.41 | cb22_ | unless catching on fire is the new unanounced feature :) |
| 14:12.45 | SpeedEvil | You need that to give a realistic prediction, but not a minimum time. |
| 14:13.02 | mickeyl | cb22_: no. i had no time to work on it. hopefully i can spend some time to do benchmarks tomorrow |
| 14:13.12 | SpeedEvil | For example, production needs to start now - or a bit ago - to get them to customers before the end of Oct. |
| 14:13.14 | DPThought | btw. SpeedEvil, your client makes yellow colons in nick completion. Thats a bit unusual and anoying. ;) (only a friendly hint) |
| 14:13.16 | SpeedEvil | (presumably) |
| 14:13.39 | SpeedEvil | Err |
| 14:13.41 | ScaredyCat | terminal stiil neds vte manually installing though :? |
| 14:13.50 | SpeedEvil | No, ignore me. |
| 14:13.52 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: well, i can tell that there will be a gta02v3 and this is hoped to be the production version. |
| 14:13.53 | ScaredyCat | I presume that;s a dep error in the .bb ? |
| 14:14.27 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: Is there going to be a developers release first, or is it intended to go internal testers only then massmarket? |
| 14:14.46 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: 50 free devices, then quantities |
| 14:15.14 | SpeedEvil | K. Is it possible to be notified if the HH chip is not to be present in v3? |
| 14:15.36 | ScaredyCat | s it possible to have a free one :P |
| 14:15.54 | SpeedEvil | As I've been working on-and-off on open-source stuff for the HH. |
| 14:15.58 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: i promise to push internally to announce this when it's been decided |
| 14:16.03 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
| 14:16.07 | mickeyl | np |
| 14:16.22 | mickeyl | as for free devices, the P0 owners list will be recreated, of course |
| 14:16.33 | mickeyl | some new will be on this list |
| 14:16.36 | mickeyl | some will be gone |
| 14:16.41 | mickeyl | based on some evaluation |
| 14:16.46 | mickeyl | no surprise there, i guess |
| 14:17.39 | SpeedEvil | If oct is to be hit - v3 would need to be pretty much in production now I guess. |
| 14:17.53 | SpeedEvil | Or is October now the deadline for free ones? |
| 14:18.03 | SpeedEvil | s/free/approved developer list/... |
| 14:18.25 | mickeyl | yes (to your first claim) |
| 14:19.15 | ScaredyCat | are you going to maintain gta01 software development? |
| 14:19.20 | SpeedEvil | So v3 hardware is really close, and waiting on the GPS decision? |
| 14:19.30 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@TheWide.ubyt.sdjls.uniba.sk) |
| 14:19.38 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: 100% |
| 14:19.54 | ScaredyCat | good, good... |
| 14:19.56 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: waiting for GPS, waiting for 02 verify, and some other minor points |
| 14:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D81D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:20.06 | SpeedEvil | Ok. |
| 14:20.19 | ScaredyCat | what are the h/w bugs in 01's (are there any?) |
| 14:20.22 | SpeedEvil | WAve. |
| 14:20.25 | mickeyl | l8ers |
| 14:20.33 | ScaredyCat | don't go, we like it when you talk to us |
| 14:20.42 | mickeyl | heh, but then you'd need to wait until 2010 ;) |
| 14:20.44 | SpeedEvil | Information is good. |
| 14:20.45 | cb22_ | heh, ya :) have fun |
| 14:20.54 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
| 14:21.08 | ScaredyCat | mickeyl: so that's a definate realease in 2010 then? |
| 14:21.10 | mickeyl | you're welcome. if i wasn't a developer, i'd like to be community manager. |
| 14:21.14 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: yes ;) |
| 14:21.21 | ScaredyCat | sweet... |
| 14:21.53 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.218.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 14:23.26 | cb22_ | SpeedEvil, you like doing that, dont you :) |
| 14:23.33 | cb22_ | i see your name all over |
| 14:24.18 | SpeedEvil | It's an addiction :/ |
| 14:24.56 | cb22_ | heh, i've gotten into the habbit of instantly clicking the 'recent changes' button, and getting annoyed when nothing has changed |
| 14:26.17 | CM | SpeedEvil: We like your wiki-addiction ;) |
| 14:27.37 | ScaredyCat | $200 neo on ebay |
| 14:27.41 | ScaredyCat | advance kit |
| 14:27.46 | ScaredyCat | advanced |
| 14:29.29 | *** join/#openmoko burt0n (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-11-229.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 14:34.25 | cb22_ | SpeedEvil, Santa's Sleigh Package Service :) |
| 14:35.50 | SpeedEvil | Only good boys and girls get Neos. |
| 14:36.13 | Elrond | neos as present? |
| 14:36.23 | zash_se | omfg! |
| 14:36.29 | SpeedEvil | Where good is defined as 'Have $600'. |
| 14:36.47 | cb22_ | what about have $450? |
| 14:36.52 | cb22_ | arent we good enough? |
| 14:36.52 | SpeedEvil | I don't see that the timeline can be much compressed before december |
| 14:37.23 | SpeedEvil | Oh - 450, I forgot. |
| 14:37.24 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 14:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:37.48 | cb22_ | yay :) |
| 14:38.19 | Elrond | Will they send out free GTA02v3 to selected people? |
| 14:40.34 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@dsl081-134-176.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 14:41.33 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 14:41.43 | *** join/#openmoko zawhtut (i=uqrhu@static-ip-85-25-147-217.inaddr.intergenia.de) |
| 14:41.43 | ScaredyCat | sounded like p0 people would get them |
| 14:41.53 | *** part/#openmoko zawhtut (i=uqrhu@static-ip-85-25-147-217.inaddr.intergenia.de) |
| 14:42.17 | ScaredyCat | "<mickeyl> as for free devices, the P0 owners list will be recreated, of course" |
| 14:42.27 | stefan_schmidt | ScaredyCat: Not all. As mickeyl said. We re-evaluate the chosen people. |
| 14:43.06 | ScaredyCat | well, recreated could mean 'repeated' or 'a new list' |
| 14:43.15 | ScaredyCat | I guess you're saying 'new list' |
| 14:43.53 | XorA | I guess those who sold P0 on ebay probably lose on new list :) |
| 14:44.33 | jeddy3 | <mickeyl> as for free devices, the P0 owners list will be recreated, of course |
| 14:44.33 | jeddy3 | * cb22_ cant wait |
| 14:44.33 | jeddy3 | <mickeyl> some new will be on this list |
| 14:44.33 | jeddy3 | <mickeyl> some will be gone |
| 14:44.52 | bedboi | guys, so does anyone know if i place an order today when actually my neo will be shipped (I'm in the us) |
| 14:45.03 | Elrond | I hope the "gone people" are not pissed. :) |
| 14:45.08 | ScaredyCat | ahh missed that, thx jeddy3 |
| 14:45.17 | jeddy3 | :) |
| 14:45.20 | stefan_schmidt | ScaredyCat: We will go through the current list and think if the people have contributed as we hoped. And the empty space will be filled up with people we now discovered. |
| 14:45.34 | ScaredyCat | I hope 'gone people' aren't "dissappeared" |
| 14:45.35 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - BTW: What's up with buildhost? Wanted to consider a new u-boot yesterday. ;) |
| 14:45.44 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: People how contributed should not be gone. |
| 14:46.16 | SpeedEvil | Probably worth an email around now poking them. |
| 14:46.24 | SpeedEvil | In case anyones written a visicalc |
| 14:46.31 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:46.39 | bedboi | i'm also asking because my advisor wants to use some NEOs in a NSF founded project |
| 14:46.46 | SpeedEvil | (first killer app for a project) |
| 14:46.47 | XorA | SpeedEvil: hmm sheet on neo console is gonna be painful :-) |
| 14:46.59 | SpeedEvil | I mean in the generic sense. |
| 14:47.10 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: All the changes in OE.dev let us decide to build from scratch again. Whould be up in some hours again. |
| 14:47.17 | SpeedEvil | Lovely myspace/facebook browser, for example. |
| 14:47.23 | ScaredyCat | whay can't i bibbake libgsmd-tools when it's in the phone task |
| 14:47.28 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Ahh. :) |
| 14:47.40 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: hmm, they have the device for a long time now.... |
| 14:47.55 | SpeedEvil | True - that doesn't mean they've not been coding - just not been sharing results |
| 14:48.09 | cb22_ | <SpeedEvil> Lovely myspace/facebook browser, for example. |
| 14:48.12 | SpeedEvil | Alas, I suspect more have had it on the shelf. |
| 14:48.19 | cb22_ | nice idea, a webbrower designed for facebook |
| 14:48.31 | ScaredyCat | facebrowser? |
| 14:48.32 | cb22_ | it probably makes up 99.1% of internet traffic |
| 14:48.33 | stefan_schmidt | In the end I don't think we will piss of people, as people which did nothing will hopefully not expect to get another one for free. |
| 14:48.42 | cb22_ | the other 0.8% is porn |
| 14:48.49 | *** join/#openmoko burt0n (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-75-111.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:48.50 | cb22_ | and the other 0.1% is unclassified |
| 14:48.58 | ScaredyCat | that decimal is in the wrong place.. |
| 14:49.07 | ScaredyCat | 80% is porn |
| 14:49.16 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: But if they just code for themself they do not contribute in our eyes. |
| 14:49.23 | cb22_ | hmm, maybe make a facebook with porn? |
| 14:49.28 | cb22_ | become the biggest website ver |
| 14:49.34 | cb22_ | s/ver/ever/ |
| 14:49.41 | ScaredyCat | 'sit on my facebook' ? |
| 14:49.47 | cb22_ | lmao |
| 14:50.01 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - I'd suggest to somehow kindly communicate this to those people. So thex can raise counter-indications. :) |
| 14:51.56 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I can communicate this internally, but what do you think these guys expect? Getting free devices all the time without working with us? |
| 14:52.22 | stefan_schmidt | mjr: I know at least two of the HH re devs who have free devices. :) |
| 14:52.34 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - They might have worked, but have not been noticed (possibly!) |
| 14:53.22 | Elrond | mjr - I know exactly one guy who works on HH stuff, who bought his device. The others have free/lended devices. |
| 14:54.31 | Elrond | ... which reminds me to get back on HH stuff soon. My other projects just carched me. And the eabi/oabi story just scared me away. ;) |
| 14:54.45 | Elrond | s/car/cat |
| 14:55.53 | ScaredyCat | | moko-dialer.c: In function 'moko_dialer_init': |
| 14:55.53 | ScaredyCat | | moko-dialer.c:808: error: too many arguments to function 'moko_gsmd_connection_set_antenna_power' |
| 14:56.07 | ScaredyCat | did someone not even try to compile this? |
| 14:56.31 | XorA | ScaredyCat: I think you might have been unlucky and checked out between two changes |
| 14:56.31 | mjr | righto |
| 14:56.56 | ScaredyCat | that would have been really bad timing.. |
| 14:59.58 | ScaredyCat | you're right XorA... |
| 15:00.00 | ScaredyCat | U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ChangeLog |
| 15:00.00 | ScaredyCat | U trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/moko-dialer.c |
| 15:00.53 | ScaredyCat | why can't I get those odds on the lottery |
| 15:01.11 | XorA | heh heh |
| 15:01.21 | DPThought | because lotteries don't use svn :P |
| 15:01.21 | ckuethe | you do... |
| 15:01.38 | ckuethe | you buy your tickets right between the two guys who win. |
| 15:01.54 | ScaredyCat | yeah.. |
| 15:02.00 | ScaredyCat | I never win.. |
| 15:02.08 | DPThought | i never try |
| 15:02.28 | ScaredyCat | they say that the odds are 14 million to 1... |
| 15:02.39 | ScaredyCat | yet they have times when 5 people win |
| 15:03.05 | ScaredyCat | surely the odds on 5 people winning are worse than 14 million to 1 |
| 15:03.16 | cb22_ | 14*5? |
| 15:03.17 | SpeedEvil | depends. |
| 15:03.39 | DPThought | the chances to get the right combination are fixed. but the chances to choose the same stupid umbers than others are not ;) |
| 15:03.41 | cb22_ | wait - it's easy to win the lottery, i win the UK one every single day |
| 15:03.48 | cb22_ | or atleast thats what gmail tells me |
| 15:03.54 | Stephmw | haha |
| 15:04.35 | ckuethe | f**ing gmail... they keep mis-filing my lottery notifications as spam. i'd have more money than god if they'd actually deliver my lottery notifications on time.... |
| 15:04.38 | *** join/#openmoko kristian-m (i=kristian@217.13.205.113) |
| 15:04.40 | kristian-m | re |
| 15:05.45 | Elrond | ckuethe - *lol* |
| 15:13.22 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 15:15.25 | DPThought | who needs lottery while there are dozends of friendly men who need someone to help them bring millions out of theyr country. |
| 15:15.54 | florian | :-) |
| 15:16.05 | SpeedEvil | A variant I hadn't seen before till a couple of weeks ago was wife-spam. |
| 15:16.20 | SpeedEvil | 'I need to come to the UK, I'll marry you, here's a picture) |
| 15:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:16.27 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X1114.x.pppool.de) |
| 15:19.30 | florian | SpeedEvil: oh, I never got one of these... hum well, maybe these spammers already know that I'm married ;) |
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| 15:24.16 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2934 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:24.16 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-contacts.c: (moko_contacts_add_contact), |
| 15:24.16 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (on_ebook_contacts_changed), (on_ebook_contacts_removed): |
| 15:24.16 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-panel.c: (moko_dialer_panel_class_init): |
| 15:24.16 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_pin_entry), |
| 15:24.20 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:24.20 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (on_talking_speaker_toggle), (on_network_registered), |
| 15:24.22 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (on_incoming_call), (on_incoming_clip), (on_pin_requested), |
| 15:25.52 | bedboi | the iphone 4gb is now 299$ |
| 15:26.13 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:27.23 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 15:28.44 | cb22_ | bedboi, is that the same price as your soul? |
| 15:30.03 | bedboi | cb22_: I'm not telling i'm getting one. |
| 15:30.51 | bedboi | btw i would like at least to know WHEN they are going to ship Neo if i place an order today |
| 15:31.01 | bedboi | i'm going to leave the us in 14 days |
| 15:31.24 | SpeedEvil | As would many. |
| 15:31.49 | SpeedEvil | I've not been pushing it at several potential devs I know, simply as they may not get hardware, and become disinterested. |
| 15:32.20 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
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| 15:52.52 | PBeck | hey |
| 15:53.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Contacts/2007.2]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt_Main]] [[Talk:Neo1973]] [[Neo1973]] |
| 15:56.56 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-566919d50975d8d4) |
| 15:58.57 | borg_ | can i add a .xspf playlist to the mediaplayer if i create one on my pc before? |
| 16:00.06 | folken | borg_: yes you can. |
| 16:00.13 | borg_ | cool |
| 16:00.21 | borg_ | can it play something then? :) |
| 16:00.24 | folken | borg_: just put it in the ~/playlist dir |
| 16:00.36 | folken | borg_: yes it actually works when you have a playlist. :) |
| 16:00.41 | borg_ | nice :) |
| 16:00.46 | borg_ | i have to try it |
| 16:01.11 | folken | borg_: one thing though: you'll have to switch off the speakers manually if you only want earphones. |
| 16:01.58 | El_Salvador | Dec 25 - GTA02v3 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service. |
| 16:02.02 | El_Salvador | Santa's Sleigh Package Service? |
| 16:02.24 | SpeedEvil | That may not be completely serious. |
| 16:06.02 | *** join/#openmoko fletch (n=fletch@doener.lieferservice.cc) |
| 16:06.56 | folken | faster than ups. only delivers once a year. |
| 16:06.59 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 16:08.07 | borg_ | folken: it says "gstreamer error" |
| 16:08.08 | borg_ | mmh |
| 16:08.43 | folken | borg_: maybe not installed gstreamer? |
| 16:08.47 | SpeedEvil | http://www.theonion.com/content/news/chrysler_halts_production_of |
| 16:08.48 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 16:09.02 | borg_ | folken: root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg install gstreamer |
| 16:09.02 | borg_ | Package gstreamer (0.10.14-r0) installed in root is up to date. |
| 16:09.02 | borg_ | Nothing to be done |
| 16:09.17 | borg_ | folken: do i have to install any special gstreamer package? |
| 16:09.53 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2935 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer-textview.c): |
| 16:09.53 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer-textview.c: (moko_dialer_textview_init): Prevent the display |
| 16:09.53 | CIA-23 | openmoko: from resizing when the font size is reduced |
| 16:10.06 | folken | borg_: gstreamer ffmpeg or mad |
| 16:10.09 | folken | for mp3 |
| 16:10.14 | borg_ | i use ogg |
| 16:10.27 | folken | then ffmpeg |
| 16:10.42 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=8118f9db@xen.linuxtrent.it) |
| 16:10.48 | bedboi | back |
| 16:11.40 | *** join/#openmoko Siliconburner (n=sarge@p54B3CB6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:12.02 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@sg-swt5.se.eecs.uni-kassel.de) |
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| 16:17.35 | borg_ | mh.. cant get it working |
| 16:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko burton` (n=burt0n`@ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-63-128.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:18.02 | *** part/#openmoko Siliconburner (n=sarge@p54B3CB6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:19.42 | folken | borg_: it might have changed since my version.. |
| 16:21.21 | borg_ | probably |
| 16:21.46 | folken | borg_: but oggplay <file> on the cmd line works? |
| 16:22.12 | borg_ | ogg123 <file> works |
| 16:22.14 | borg_ | yes |
| 16:23.06 | folken | unfortunatly my device is currently charging.. so i cannot tell you which versions i tried. |
| 16:23.09 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 16:24.46 | cw666 | the phone itself seens a usb end-point and enables charging right? |
| 16:24.58 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej_ (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:25.04 | cw666 | there is no way to have it enable charging when there is USB power but the end-point has gone to sleep? |
| 16:26.14 | borg_ | folken: it works if i start it from the console |
| 16:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 16:26.48 | folken | borg_: mediaplayer? or gstreamer? |
| 16:26.56 | borg_ | mediaplayer |
| 16:31.57 | *** join/#openmoko waecky (n=waecky@p549CD74D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 16:56.39 | *** part/#openmoko joao (n=joao@35-165.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
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| 17:02.55 | joao | Hi, anyone struggling to get a build done? |
| 17:03.04 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3CA4E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:05.09 | gcb77 | I've been trying to build since before the weekend, and I have not gotten a succesfull build on my dev box |
| 17:07.07 | joao | same same. First it was matchbox and now it's something else on the kernel. Running make update right now |
| 17:07.27 | joao | the buildhost seemed to be out this morning as well |
| 17:07.49 | gcb77 | icu_native was my last fail... I'll try an update again too |
| 17:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko chx (n=knegyesi@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 17:09.42 | chx | mickeyl: hi. I think we met at froscon and spoke of the lamp stack and Drupal. |
| 17:11.15 | joao | gcb77: haven't seen anything related to icu_native on the updates... but then we might get lucky :-) |
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| 17:21.56 | ScaredyCat | anyone have experience with lua ? |
| 17:22.24 | cw666 | the language? |
| 17:24.05 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:25.04 | DPThought | ScaredyCat: yes, i read the docu and was sure i don't want to learn it. :) |
| 17:25.51 | DPThought | i thought scripting my ion windowmanager would be fun -> it's not |
| 17:25.59 | ScaredyCat | I just wanted a simple gtk example... I have the libs etc all installed - can i find any docs? can i find even a simple example? |
| 17:27.33 | DPThought | how good lua feels depends very much on the quality of the bindings you use. The language itself is too primitive to be really bad. |
| 17:29.11 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:29.17 | DPThought | but i never used really used it. Can't really tell you how it is. |
| 17:29.59 | mickeyl | chx: ah, that was you. I was very busy, but rest assured that I did not forget doing the necessary things to make Drupal run on the Neo. Still working on it. |
| 17:30.31 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178215003.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:31.10 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 17:31.21 | chx | mickeyl: sure. |
| 17:31.29 | ScaredyCat | cw666: yes |
| 17:31.32 | chx | mickeyl: yes it was "me" whatever you know about me :) |
| 17:31.47 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:33.08 | CM | ScaredyCat: What are you planning to do? |
| 17:33.21 | ScaredyCat | rule the world ;) |
| 17:33.26 | CM | Hehe |
| 17:33.59 | ScaredyCat | I'm just looking for something small and flexible that wont take people too long to learn |
| 17:34.06 | chx | logo! |
| 17:34.14 | ScaredyCat | python is just too big. |
| 17:34.20 | CM | And ruby? |
| 17:34.27 | mickeyl | nah |
| 17:34.34 | mickeyl | python is not that big |
| 17:34.36 | ScaredyCat | I didn;t see the gtk bindings for that |
| 17:34.46 | ScaredyCat | 10mb is big |
| 17:35.01 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: just 1/10 of the GTA02 flash |
| 17:35.11 | ScaredyCat | i have a gta01 |
| 17:35.15 | ScaredyCat | 10mb is big |
| 17:35.20 | DPThought | python will be a success. no matter how big |
| 17:35.46 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: you can remove the sources and just keep the .pyo |
| 17:35.46 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: you can install it on your sd card |
| 17:36.06 | DPThought | it's a nice language and has complete bindings for everythig you want |
| 17:36.07 | mickeyl | ya, with gigabytes of sd cards for just a couple of bucks, space problems should not be that relelvant |
| 17:36.18 | mickeyl | of course we need to integrate the SD better |
| 17:36.24 | u_l-lap | ScaredyCat: guile |
| 17:36.29 | ScaredyCat | true, but the sd card is sucking |
| 17:36.52 | u_l-lap | full posix support, a ton of srfis, complete gnome platform bindings |
| 17:37.05 | ScaredyCat | size ? |
| 17:37.14 | u_l-lap | let me check the size of my binaries |
| 17:37.19 | chx | actually, Lafontaine logo interpreter does run on gtk |
| 17:37.41 | u_l-lap | 2.8M |
| 17:37.47 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: why? (sd sucking) |
| 17:37.54 | mickeyl | (yes, the combo slot sucks) |
| 17:38.07 | u_l-lap | + 1.9M of scheme |
| 17:38.11 | ScaredyCat | slow and i get errors copying to it via scp |
| 17:38.21 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: errors should be fixed in 2.6.22 |
| 17:38.31 | mickeyl | slowness, well, try removing sync |
| 17:38.34 | mickeyl | and add noatime |
| 17:38.46 | u_l-lap | an ARM binary would probably be a smaller (32 vs 64-bit for the primitive guile data type) |
| 17:38.52 | ScaredyCat | people keep saying that it should be fixed... it doesn;t seem to be... |
| 17:39.09 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: if it's not for you, please reopen the bug. this is very important |
| 17:39.16 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: and tell us your model/make |
| 17:39.24 | ScaredyCat | I tried to copy a load of games for scummvm ... |
| 17:39.38 | ScaredyCat | let me try again to double check |
| 17:40.23 | u_l-lap | ScaredyCat: I picked up enough scheme to do scripting and write basic gtk apps in an afternoon when I was fifteen so... |
| 17:40.47 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 17:40.56 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:44.11 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-173e506d4e5685bd) |
| 17:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0D37C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:51.04 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 17:52.45 | *** join/#openmoko Administrator_ (n=Administ@dsl-245-145-221.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 17:53.31 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[Talk:Neo1973]] [[User:ThomasWood]] |
| 17:53.39 | joao | u_l-lap: What kind of ide would you recommend for a gtk beginner? |
| 17:57.12 | *** join/#openmoko balthamaisteri (n=balthama@statip-80-95-136-74.kopteri.net) |
| 18:00.30 | CM | ScaredyCat: I scp:ed some scummvm games to /media/card/ using your Sept-03 image without any problems |
| 18:00.48 | *** join/#openmoko webar7 (n=webart@198.62.158.205) |
| 18:01.28 | webar7 | any hints on how to convince him :) |
| 18:01.41 | ckuethe | big bags of cash? |
| 18:01.57 | ckuethe | nonsequential, unmarked, used $20 and $50 |
| 18:02.25 | webar7 | heh |
| 18:02.43 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:03.30 | webar7 | mono on moko |
| 18:04.01 | DPThought | that would be a great alternative for rapid development for python |
| 18:04.10 | webar7 | python rox though :) |
| 18:04.17 | edistar | but python is slow |
| 18:04.19 | DPThought | performance... :) |
| 18:04.26 | edistar | maybe not so with psycho, but still |
| 18:04.42 | webar7 | ironpython (python built in mono) is faster than c-python I think |
| 18:04.42 | cw666 | psyco is i386 only |
| 18:04.49 | edistar | cw666: sure? |
| 18:04.54 | cw666 | edistar: presently yes |
| 18:05.05 | u_l-lap | joao: emacs |
| 18:05.06 | cw666 | im not aware of an iamd64 or any other port |
| 18:05.15 | edistar | ironpython sounds interesting, but I don't think it can be much faster |
| 18:06.02 | DPThought | if someone gives me full moko bindings for .njet i will start learning c# tomorrow |
| 18:06.22 | DPThought | and coding the day after... |
| 18:06.34 | edistar | DPThought: what do you want to code? |
| 18:06.47 | DPThought | a podcast client comes to mind |
| 18:06.53 | DPThought | bluetooth instant chat |
| 18:06.57 | DPThought | voip |
| 18:07.27 | edistar | bluetooth chat sounds brilliant |
| 18:07.43 | cw666 | why are people so against C? |
| 18:07.51 | edistar | cw666: I like C! |
| 18:07.58 | u_l-lap | cw666: it is obsolete and was obsolete the moment it was created |
| 18:08.02 | edistar | but people say its not in fashion anymore |
| 18:08.05 | cw666 | u_l-lap: right |
| 18:08.15 | DPThought | there are unfortunately no standards for instant bluetooth chat. But something like a subset of xmpp could work |
| 18:08.19 | cw666 | u_l-lap: you forgot the smiley in your troll |
| 18:08.45 | u_l-lap | cw666: troll? |
| 18:09.12 | cw666 | u_l-lap: your statement was either a troll or one of the more ignorant things ive heard today |
| 18:09.28 | u_l-lap | cw666: no, C and UNIX were obsolete the moment they were created. |
| 18:09.31 | u_l-lap | 'tis fact |
| 18:09.35 | DPThought | cw666: scripting is efficient. |
| 18:10.07 | edistar | u_l-lap: C has a lot of potential |
| 18:10.26 | DPThought | cw666: and most scriping apis are way cooler than c |
| 18:10.28 | u_l-lap | edistar: not really |
| 18:10.40 | edistar | u_l-lap: yes ;) |
| 18:10.50 | u_l-lap | being memory unsafe makes it a pain to program in or prove things about it or optimize or avoid terrible security problems |
| 18:10.50 | DPThought | If someone can c it performs well. But i can't and dont want to |
| 18:10.50 | cw666 | DPThought: for a lot of things scripting (or in general much higher level languages) make so much sense sure |
| 18:10.55 | ossman | oh oh, can I poke the troll? pretty please? |
| 18:11.02 | u_l-lap | any language that you can segfault is *bad* |
| 18:11.04 | cw666 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:11.17 | edistar | u_l-lap: more power |
| 18:11.23 | u_l-lap | cw666: maclisp was faster than C before C existed |
| 18:11.33 | edistar | I like python cause I can develop very fast |
| 18:11.44 | DPThought | You can 'chat' via sending vNote messages. This would be somehow interoperable with all phones |
| 18:11.48 | edistar | lisp is something completely different than C! |
| 18:11.55 | u_l-lap | edistar: not really I can do the same low level munging you can do in C in Common Lisp without much issue, and if I need a low-level language prescheme is equivalent to C (manual memory allocation and all) but far more expressive |
| 18:12.05 | cw666 | u_l-lap: apples and oranges, and no, it wasn't faster for many things |
| 18:12.25 | u_l-lap | steele would be very sad now |
| 18:12.35 | edistar | I find C very flexible, and that is what counts for my, lisp is just not nice |
| 18:12.50 | cw666 | edistar: list is wonderful for some things :-) |
| 18:12.58 | u_l-lap | edistar: example |
| 18:12.59 | cb22 | not for speaking :p |
| 18:13.21 | cw666 | it depends on the task at hand as to what tool(s) make the most sense, and also the env. |
| 18:13.29 | edistar | never went into lisp ;) |
| 18:13.32 | DPThought | edistar: i like c too. in principle. But in practice i'm just shooting myself in the foot and don't get things to work. :) |
| 18:14.32 | edistar | big discussions ;) |
| 18:14.55 | gcb77 | what does the NEO actually do when you select Factory reset in the UBoot? |
| 18:15.33 | u_l-lap | edistar: cw666: my issues with C are fairly fundamental. The lack of closures and such make is very difficult to do functional programming which makes it very difficult to do any programming |
| 18:15.46 | u_l-lap | I broke myself of the imperative habit and now I can't go back |
| 18:16.14 | DPThought | i personally hate the flat namespace the most :) |
| 18:16.28 | u_l-lap | DPThought: C++ at least fixes that |
| 18:16.57 | DPThought | u_l-lap: c++ looks for me like the wrong answer to a never asked question :) |
| 18:17.19 | DPThought | u_l-lap: ObjectiveC would be my choice |
| 18:17.34 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-6ee666fe79e75fec) |
| 18:17.38 | u_l-lap | DPThought: aye it is depressingly overcomplex but has a few nice bits that make C more tolerable (namespaces, an OK object system, etc.) |
| 18:17.45 | DPThought | u_l-lap: but i know, many people perform well with c++... |
| 18:18.09 | u_l-lap | DPThought: Obj-C is nice but I tend to use multiple inheritance a lot and interfaces aren't really the same |
| 18:18.22 | u_l-lap | DPThought: the whole single dispatch thing on generics makes me sad as well |
| 18:18.24 | DPThought | it comes all with practice. But i don't want to start with it and fight myself through all the gory detils |
| 18:19.08 | u_l-lap | luckily the smalltalk bits of objc provide enough runtime info that it is easy to interface dynamically with it (e.g. steptalk, gnustep-guile generate bindings for other languages at runtime) |
| 18:19.17 | u_l-lap | C++ is *way* too static |
| 18:19.28 | u_l-lap | it kind of bothers me that methods by default are not methods |
| 18:19.47 | u_l-lap | "performance!" which turns out not to be an issue with a few simple optimizations |
| 18:20.16 | u_l-lap | especially in a static system like C++ where you can't add new types at runtime |
| 18:20.24 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@ool-18b9f1c7.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:20.26 | DPThought | u_l-lap: with all i did bad performance was either my fault or not a issue *g* |
| 18:21.21 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 18:30.25 | *** join/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@c-67-189-220-92.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 18:31.10 | ScaredyCat | gcb77: it does some *temporary* stuff to allow you to boot... |
| 18:32.08 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CF44E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:32.28 | malsyned | so... is openmoko really going to be ready for an October release of the Neo1973? |
| 18:32.44 | mjr | doubtful |
| 18:33.17 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@sg-swt5.se.eecs.uni-kassel.de) |
| 18:33.23 | *** join/#openmoko Xappu (n=hromanov@ip72.cab7.lsn.starman.ee) |
| 18:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CF44E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:34.25 | SpeedEvil | malsyned: no |
| 18:34.33 | gcb77 | ScaredyCat: thanks... I was thinking it re-initialized the file-system with the last flashed rootfs image |
| 18:34.39 | SpeedEvil | malsyned: however, there won't be a public release in october |
| 18:35.19 | malsyned | SpeedEvil: yeah? They're still claiming October in places on openmoko.com. |
| 18:35.24 | ScaredyCat | gcb77: naa.. I found out when I semi-bricked mine :) |
| 18:35.43 | SpeedEvil | malsyned: well - today it's been clarified somewhat. |
| 18:35.55 | SpeedEvil | The hardware design has not yet been frozen. |
| 18:36.06 | malsyned | gotcha. link? |
| 18:36.12 | SpeedEvil | So production cannot be happening. |
| 18:36.18 | SpeedEvil | !logs |
| 18:36.18 | cdbot2 | Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: |
| 18:36.19 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko |
| 18:36.20 | cdbot2 | Live-logs are available at |
| 18:36.22 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog |
| 18:36.24 | cdbot2 | See ?? help-logs for usage instructions |
| 18:36.31 | SpeedEvil | seaerch for mickey l (with no space) |
| 18:36.33 | gcb77 | ScaredyCat: heh, I just re-flashed mine too, the new kernel crashed reliably on gsmd start, and I made the mistake of putting in the gsmd stop/start in matchbox session |
| 18:36.49 | SpeedEvil | See the Neo1973 page for more info |
| 18:36.58 | ScaredyCat | ouch! |
| 18:37.14 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 |
| 18:39.03 | SpeedEvil | It's not _completely_ impossible it could be earlier - shrinking that timeline down so that it will fit to bought hardware being deliverable in october is hard. |
| 18:39.30 | Xappu | mm |
| 18:39.42 | Xappu | can anyone tell will the ipaq's be supported? |
| 18:39.43 | aloril | Xappu: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:41.39 | SpeedEvil | not yet. |
| 18:41.41 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-027.eplus-online.de) |
| 18:41.48 | SpeedEvil | Basically, the supported phone is barely supported. |
| 18:42.08 | SpeedEvil | Any effort to getting other hardware working is user-lead. |
| 18:42.20 | Xappu | so it will take like years :) |
| 18:42.26 | SpeedEvil | The core team has little interest in doing it - strictly speaking. |
| 18:42.34 | SpeedEvil | as they are only interested in selling FIC hardware. |
| 18:42.58 | Xappu | well |
| 18:43.02 | Xappu | thats life |
| 18:43.17 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=user@tmo-100-1.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 18:43.17 | SpeedEvil | If you've got GSM, screen, sound, ... drivers |
| 18:43.33 | SpeedEvil | then you can install the software, and it's 'just' a case of tweaking stuff so it works right |
| 18:43.35 | hhf423 | moin |
| 18:43.46 | mmp | SpeedEvil: didn't openmoko stack also run on zaurii? |
| 18:43.47 | mickeyl | sorry to interrupt, but that's not entirely true |
| 18:43.59 | mickeyl | look at our involvement in the ezx project |
| 18:44.05 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:44.26 | SpeedEvil | I mean - primarily - there is interest in getting other stuff running, but for the moment most effort is going into getting the targetted phone working |
| 18:44.31 | mickeyl | right |
| 18:44.35 | cw666 | mickeyl: it's hard for me to see how FIC can make money on the neo's actually, i hope that turns out to not be the case though |
| 18:44.54 | SpeedEvil | Compare the position with commodity PCs. |
| 18:45.04 | SpeedEvil | FIC becomes a manufacturer selling to end-users |
| 18:45.08 | SpeedEvil | Like Dell. |
| 18:45.09 | edistar | cw666: it is supposed to run win mobile too, so thats how they could make money |
| 18:45.25 | SpeedEvil | Rather than a subcontractor to Dell, who low-bidded for the contract to supply their PCs |
| 18:45.28 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 18:45.31 | *** join/#openmoko elmarb (n=co@p57B65774.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:45.48 | SpeedEvil | There is _much_ more profit if you can sell to the consumer - but for that you need an OS. |
| 18:45.58 | cw666 | edistar: only if the volumes are high enough ... given an iphone is $399 now and a neo with wifi will be $450 i think that's a tough sell for a lot of people |
| 18:46.08 | SpeedEvil | In many ways - FIC would win from the whole market going to OM. |
| 18:46.28 | SpeedEvil | As they are then in an even playing field position, and can play to their strengths as a hardware maker. |
| 18:46.29 | edistar | cw666: true again, the buying point for me is the OSS ;) |
| 18:46.47 | cw666 | edistar: well, me too... except how long before enough of the ihpone is open for most people to not care? |
| 18:46.48 | *** join/#openmoko spliffy (n=spliffy@p54B1E0B8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:47.04 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: the entire market won't go to OM though |
| 18:47.05 | u_l-lap | cw666: $399 with a two year contract vs $450 with no contract |
| 18:47.10 | edistar | cw666: it isn't open by intention of apple, thats also what I care fore |
| 18:47.16 | edistar | s/fore/for |
| 18:47.24 | SpeedEvil | cw666: it's not completely implausible it might take a large slice out of winmobile. |
| 18:47.24 | cw666 | u_l-lap: ah ok, thanks... so it's on par then except iphone is w/o gps |
| 18:47.31 | hhf423 | my neo boots to "please wait for ui to load" and then just sits there forever |
| 18:47.33 | elmarb | hi, does someone know a link with a feature list, what the FIC and OpenMoko are able to do? |
| 18:47.37 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: you're assuming people want/like OM ... many don't |
| 18:47.44 | SpeedEvil | Of course. |
| 18:47.44 | *** join/#openmoko Administrator_ (n=Administ@dsl-245-145-221.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 18:48.03 | u_l-lap | cw666: really cheaper amortized over time especially if you have e.g. t-mobile in the US where data rates are ~1/4 that of at&t |
| 18:48.17 | edistar | SpeedEvil: openmoko really looks good, even to non devs or not-OSS people |
| 18:48.33 | cw666 | u_l-lap: i have t-mobile here, data sucks on it afaict... maybe all wireless is like that though |
| 18:48.45 | u_l-lap | cw666: look at my IP :-) |
| 18:48.46 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:48.51 | u_l-lap | or rather hostname |
| 18:48.54 | SpeedEvil | IMO. Looks are largely irrelevant. It can only really take off if you can give it to users and they like it. |
| 18:48.54 | cw666 | u_l-lap: i saw it before |
| 18:49.04 | cw666 | u_l-lap: when i did the ignorant-12-yo-lookup :-) |
| 18:49.10 | SpeedEvil | Looks may be nessecary, but they are not sufficient? |
| 18:49.21 | hhf423 | ah, the iphone is almost unlocked now, do not forget that |
| 18:49.32 | edistar | hhf423: but with a lot of effort |
| 18:49.37 | u_l-lap | cw666: I'm far from an ignorant 12 year old ... I work full time (well, full time for me) doing Common Lisp development |
| 18:49.45 | edistar | it's not easy for non-techies |
| 18:49.51 | u_l-lap | cw666: gprs is OK except for the 1500ms latency |
| 18:49.56 | SpeedEvil | The iphone may well be almost unlocked. At the moment. |
| 18:50.00 | cw666 | u_l-lap: i dont see 1500ms, more like 500ms |
| 18:50.07 | cw666 | i'm powered it up now and going to retest |
| 18:50.10 | SpeedEvil | There is no guarantee that the new cheap 4Gb ones iwll be. |
| 18:50.20 | SpeedEvil | I get 500-1500, with 600 as normal |
| 18:50.31 | u_l-lap | cw666: I get between 1000 and 1500ms roundtrip usually |
| 18:50.33 | cw666 | SpeedEvil: there is no way the can prevent people unlocking the iphones |
| 18:50.36 | hhf423 | edistar dont make me laugh, software unlocking is around the corner |
| 18:50.48 | cw666 | there is too much effort and money behind unlocking them |
| 18:51.16 | u_l-lap | hhf423: followed by a mandatory firmware update to relock them |
| 18:51.27 | edistar | hhf423: it is an effort.. and you are not supposed to do it, so the openmoko appeals quite a lot |
| 18:51.29 | SpeedEvil | Get the bugs out, mandate OTA upgrades, add security features. |
| 18:51.41 | hhf423 | ah, crap |
| 18:51.53 | u_l-lap | SpeedEvil: even worse the ota upgrade can happen silently while you sleep |
| 18:52.08 | u_l-lap | I'm waiting for it so I can lord over my iPhone owning friend |
| 18:52.09 | SpeedEvil | Disconnect users that phones won't |
| 18:52.10 | SpeedEvil | O |
| 18:52.13 | SpeedEvil | TA upgrade. |
| 18:52.15 | hhf423 | the iphone will stay unlocked, forget the argument |
| 18:52.30 | u_l-lap | hhf423: we'll see before the end of the year I'm betting |
| 18:52.43 | hhf423 | the neo will have to stand on its own |
| 18:52.52 | cw666 | hhf423: exactly |
| 18:52.58 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: It is now possible to completely lock stuff down - if you care enough. |
| 18:53.00 | edistar | hhf423: a phone with a list where you just have to tap what you want, or a phone which you first have to unlock, doesn't have gps, and then you have to somehow install the software on your own, I would choose the OM ;) |
| 18:53.01 | u_l-lap | cw666: my latency might be worse than normal though because I'm roaming on AT&T and I bet they have me prioritized lower |
| 18:53.03 | hhf423 | without the unlocked argument |
| 18:53.05 | cw666 | hhf423: which is hard against apple's enourmous engineering resources and economy of scale |
| 18:53.10 | SpeedEvil | The case is if they care to spend the money. |
| 18:53.51 | SpeedEvil | For example, encrypted ROM, with a burned in ROM in the CPU bootstrapping from a signed external storage. |
| 18:54.00 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 18:54.05 | hhf423 | what will hurt the iphone more is the closed environment |
| 18:54.39 | edistar | apple doesn't mind much if people hack it, it's too much effort for the non-techie and as long as they sell enough they're happy |
| 18:54.43 | hhf423 | while i can install mysql on my neo today |
| 18:55.21 | SpeedEvil | edistar_: indeed - they would almost certainly be happy with any solution that requires hardware mods and will clearly void the warranty. |
| 18:56.21 | hhf423 | mickeyl: any idea how i can stop my neo from stopping to boot at 'please wait for ui ...'? |
| 18:56.51 | mickeyl | no idea |
| 18:56.59 | gcb77 | hhf423: did you put gsmd start/stop in /etc/matchbox/session too? |
| 18:57.00 | mickeyl | can you log in? |
| 18:57.03 | hhf423 | mickeyl: i probably put something stupid in matchbox /session |
| 18:57.18 | mickeyl | try login during psplash |
| 18:57.25 | mickeyl | then remove the offending bits before it runs them |
| 18:57.32 | gcb77 | hhf423: ssh doesn't start up either |
| 18:57.37 | hhf423 | mickeyl: can not login, no pc in sight |
| 18:57.54 | mickeyl | hmm that's unfortunate |
| 18:58.04 | mickeyl | i guess we should have an uboot entry with runlevel=3 |
| 18:58.11 | mickeyl | and one with init=1 |
| 18:58.15 | hhf423 | gcb77: yes, i put in gsmd start etc |
| 18:58.52 | SpeedEvil | Also - perhaps the init scripts check for aux-button pressed |
| 18:58.58 | hhf423 | mickeyl: i am four days away from my pc ;-) |
| 18:59.22 | edistar | hhf423: on what are you ircing then? ;) |
| 18:59.29 | SpeedEvil | (I mean in the future, I'm not suggesting they now do) |
| 18:59.31 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: good idea |
| 18:59.37 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:59.41 | hhf423 | edistar on my n770 |
| 18:59.52 | SpeedEvil | Doesn't the n770 have host mode? |
| 19:00.00 | edistar | hhf423: I have one too, what irc client do you use? |
| 19:00.05 | SpeedEvil | If so, can't you do the DFU thing? |
| 19:00.09 | edistar | SpeedEvil: it does if you change the kernel |
| 19:00.12 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 19:00.32 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: not aware of that and no usb hub |
| 19:00.58 | hhf423 | edistar i use the pidgin irc client |
| 19:01.04 | edistar | hhf423: you can make your own cable with to small plugs, but you need external V |
| 19:01.11 | edistar | hhf423: is pidgin ported to n770? |
| 19:01.15 | edistar | cool |
| 19:01.20 | edistar | I only have gaim installed |
| 19:01.21 | SpeedEvil | edistar_: not for the neo - if you don't want it to charge |
| 19:01.40 | hhf423 | edistar oh yes, use google to find it |
| 19:01.55 | edistar | hhf423: is it much better? |
| 19:02.03 | edistar | hhf423: that is to say, is it faster? |
| 19:02.07 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-32-146-127.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:02.45 | Risto | Hi folks! my current build fails linking libicui18n.so :( some references are missing: undifined reference to `operator delete(void*)@GLIBCXX_3.4' |
| 19:02.45 | Risto | undefined reference to `vtable for __cxxabiv1::__class_type_info@CXXABI_1.3' |
| 19:02.45 | Risto | undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_v0@CXXABI_1.3' |
| 19:02.45 | Risto | undefined reference to `__cxa_end_cleanup@CXXABI_1.3' |
| 19:02.45 | Risto | undefined reference to `vtable for __cxxabiv1::__si_class_type_info@CXXABI_1.3' |
| 19:02.47 | Risto | undefined reference to `vtable for __cxxabiv1::__vmi_class_type_info@CXXABI_1.3'undefined reference to `__cxa_pure_virtual@CXXABI_1.3' |
| 19:02.50 | Risto | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:02.51 | hhf423 | edistar well, there is irc and otr, faster i can not really tell. fasr enough for me |
| 19:02.56 | edistar | Risto: nopaste |
| 19:03.07 | edistar | hhf423: ok |
| 19:03.24 | Xappu | bwahhaa n770 is manufactured in estonia |
| 19:03.34 | edistar | Xappu: so? |
| 19:03.37 | Risto | edistar_: sorry! |
| 19:03.44 | edistar | Risto: no problem ;) |
| 19:03.48 | hhf423 | edistar but i think otr is also there for gaim |
| 19:03.55 | Xappu | nothing much |
| 19:04.15 | Xappu | just didnt know that nokia has a factory in tallinn |
| 19:04.26 | edistar | Xappu: I didn't either :) |
| 19:04.30 | hhf423 | estonia is nice. ebonia is problematic ;-) |
| 19:04.33 | edistar | hhf423: what is otr? |
| 19:04.41 | Xappu | ;) |
| 19:05.02 | hhf423 | edistar encryption for IM |
| 19:05.12 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus_ (n=UserNick@78.90.88.72) |
| 19:05.23 | hhf423 | otr -- off the record |
| 19:05.34 | edistar | hhf423: thx : |
| 19:05.35 | edistar | :) |
| 19:06.34 | hhf423 | but irc i think gaim does not do |
| 19:06.58 | cw666 | u_l-lap: actually, you can't show/email-me your ppp session startup log can you? |
| 19:07.03 | edistar | hhf423: it does |
| 19:07.11 | cw666 | u_l-lap: i'm asking this becuase i get some weirdness here for t-mobile |
| 19:07.14 | hhf423 | ah, ok |
| 19:07.30 | ozarka | I'm using gaim right now. |
| 19:07.37 | ozarka | Not a good irc client, but it works. |
| 19:07.52 | hhf423 | i see |
| 19:08.09 | edistar | hhf423: I like irssi, but unfortunately you can't really use it on the n770 |
| 19:08.10 | Xappu | anyone uses mIRC? |
| 19:08.22 | edistar | Xappu: on win |
| 19:08.35 | Xappu | does gaim work on ipaq? |
| 19:08.41 | hhf423 | on pc's i use chatzilla |
| 19:08.41 | Xappu | or anything that works on ipaq? |
| 19:08.55 | Xappu | 6300 series |
| 19:08.59 | edistar | what OS is the ipaq? |
| 19:09.10 | cw666 | edistar: wince or linux |
| 19:09.10 | Xappu | mm |
| 19:09.13 | Xappu | windows mobile :d |
| 19:09.25 | cw666 | oh, nm :-) |
| 19:09.26 | cw666 | i misread |
| 19:09.29 | edistar | ok... gaim for wince? maybe.. |
| 19:09.43 | Xappu | i searched for linux for that |
| 19:09.44 | Xappu | but |
| 19:09.57 | hhf423 | hmm, maybe i can find a internet cafe with a linux box here and flash my neo |
| 19:10.01 | Xappu | its not ready and problably dead |
| 19:10.16 | edistar | hhf423: with root access? |
| 19:10.57 | hhf423 | edistar more like where i can boot an ubuntu from cd |
| 19:11.11 | edistar | hhf423: ah |
| 19:11.59 | cw666 | i nice hack for the neo might be a USB storage target ... so you can (ab)use it as a storage device for booting windows machines and what not |
| 19:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:12.58 | Writchie | cw666: this is necessary and it relates to the runlevel |
| 19:13.14 | edistar | cw666: I thought that later on if you attached it with usb it would automatically ask the user if it is a modem or a storage device |
| 19:13.16 | Writchie | i think for the gadgets we need to load and unload the modules for the various gadgets |
| 19:13.28 | cw666 | Writchie: necessary? |
| 19:13.33 | hhf423 | cw666: booting an minimal linux for troubleshooting from neo would be cool |
| 19:13.57 | Writchie | having usb networking in the kernal by default is probably not a good long term solution. |
| 19:14.05 | cw666 | Writchie: you dont have to unload modules (ill argue it's actually a really bad idea in fact) |
| 19:14.25 | cw666 | Writchie: perhaps, but it's something we could in theory switch about at run-time with some effort |
| 19:14.36 | Writchie | cw666: then how do you get the cdc ethernet de-attached? |
| 19:14.49 | cw666 | Writchie: detatch it using sysfs |
| 19:14.54 | Writchie | i couldn't find a way to do that when its built in |
| 19:15.12 | Writchie | will it then behave well with other gadget drivers? |
| 19:15.42 | cw666 | Writchie: how so? |
| 19:15.59 | Writchie | will it completely leave the usb alone? |
| 19:16.58 | cw666 | Writchie: it should, if not it's a bug that shouldn't be hard to fix |
| 19:17.32 | Writchie | cw666: ok - thanks, i will try to find the detach - if this works i agree with you that having CDC in the kernel makes sense |
| 19:17.38 | Writchie | and other loaded as modules as necessary |
| 19:18.32 | *** join/#openmoko Buck1 (n=Buck@32.129.20.33) |
| 19:21.00 | cw666 | Writchie: i actually dont see what i was expecting to see, nonetheless it should be possible to do this |
| 19:21.54 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953AB87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:21.55 | Writchie | cw666: it makes to have a rock solid compiled in cdc that works with windows/mac/linux and modules for all esle |
| 19:22.27 | cw666 | Writchie: why use modules at all? i have no idea why OM does for the neo, it's most annoying unless you're hacking on them |
| 19:22.41 | Writchie | cw666: parameters |
| 19:22.54 | cw666 | Writchie: huh? dont need modules for that |
| 19:22.57 | Writchie | perhaps there is another clean way to load these parameters for testing |
| 19:23.38 | *** join/#openmoko tnt_ (n=tnt@179.149-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:23.52 | cw666 | Writchie: /sys/module/*/paramaters/ |
| 19:23.57 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:24.20 | Writchie | driver did not open these for me. |
| 19:24.25 | Writchie | s/open/obey/ |
| 19:25.36 | cw666 | Writchie: that's possible, some drivers don't re-read from those location, again, i would call the a bug |
| 19:25.43 | *** join/#openmoko bja (n=bja@c83-250-170-184.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 19:25.56 | Writchie | it didn't look like there was a clean works everywhere way to start up and shut down a compiled in driver the same as it runs with a module. |
| 19:26.17 | Writchie | cw666: agree its probably buggy drivers in most cases. |
| 19:26.27 | cw666 | Writchie: there should be, if things don't work like that file a bug i guess |
| 19:26.36 | cw666 | (let me know the bug# so i can add myself to the cc' list too please) |
| 19:26.46 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 19:27.09 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-027.eplus-online.de) |
| 19:27.26 | Writchie | i will have to test later with a debug board |
| 19:27.50 | Writchie | or a bluetooth serial from start up. |
| 19:28.31 | Writchie | right now i'm just waiting for a clean OM2007.2 since many things I have been looking at are supposedly fixed. |
| 19:28.32 | cw666 | Writchie: ok, the usb gadget stuff doesnt seem to allow easy unbinding/rebinding, that's almost certainly an upstream problem |
| 19:29.04 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@88-149-143-238.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 19:29.37 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p54952E83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:30.37 | *** part/#openmoko Buck1 (n=Buck@32.129.20.33) |
| 19:30.49 | dcordes | cw666: I heard there will be gsmd without need to boot |
| 19:30.57 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k963.webspeed.dk) |
| 19:31.30 | abraxa_ | borg_: I assume you're missing the gst-meta-audio package |
| 19:31.41 | Writchie | dcrodes: without need to boot? |
| 19:32.41 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-103-152-149.karneval.cz) |
| 19:32.55 | cw666 | Writchie: i assume what is meant is that the basic modem power up and 'on' will be done in uboot |
| 19:33.03 | borg_ | abraxa_: |
| 19:33.03 | borg_ | root@fic-gta01:~$ ipkg install gst-meta-audio |
| 19:33.03 | borg_ | Package gst-meta-audio (0.10-r5) installed in root is up to date. |
| 19:33.04 | borg_ | Nothing to be done |
| 19:33.07 | cw666 | so that by the time the kernel has loaded it only needs to register |
| 19:33.17 | borg_ | i get the error when i start it from the gui |
| 19:33.23 | borg_ | when i start it from a console it works |
| 19:33.42 | cw666 | Writchie: i have a goal here to get my device from power-up to 'on the network' in 7s |
| 19:33.58 | Writchie | cw666: you like to dream? |
| 19:34.10 | borg_ | i think there is no package missing |
| 19:34.16 | cw666 | Writchie: 7s seems about as fast as it could be done |
| 19:34.28 | cw666 | Writchie: maybe 6s, but probably not less |
| 19:34.42 | Writchie | are you counting the search and registration in that? |
| 19:34.53 | Ghiottone | hello all |
| 19:34.54 | hhf423 | cw666: a working gsmd would be really nice |
| 19:35.03 | cw666 | Writchie: yeah, search is about 5s, registration 1s when i test it here |
| 19:35.04 | hhf423 | hi Ghiottone |
| 19:35.21 | Writchie | kernel boot IIRC was about 10 seconds |
| 19:35.22 | cw666 | Writchie: so you have to poke the modem early on, boot to linux and have it register very early on |
| 19:35.33 | Ghiottone | anyone tested SettingsGUI package from my repo? |
| 19:35.40 | cw666 | Writchie: hopefully that can be trimmed down a bit, we'll see |
| 19:35.43 | Writchie | the big delays are after the init |
| 19:36.10 | cw666 | Writchie: fwiw, i do embedded (other stuff) for a living and get get other hw from power-up to userspace/login-prompt in about 3s |
| 19:36.17 | cw666 | the moko is going to be a lot more challenging |
| 19:36.24 | cw666 | s/moko/neo/ (sorry) |
| 19:36.28 | Writchie | personally, i would like to see a basic functional MMI running soon after init while x starts in another fb |
| 19:37.00 | cw666 | Writchie: exactly the plane, have a basic daemon in initramfs to start some of this and in parallel with the rest of the boot |
| 19:37.01 | borg_ | abraxa_: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/4afda334cc9f3d9eb88fd5df9a8427a6.png |
| 19:37.12 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: i just screwed up my neo and probably have to wait until sunday for testing anything after a flashing |
| 19:37.37 | Ghiottone | hhf423, oh how sad! what did you do? |
| 19:37.39 | borg_ | oh, wow http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 19:37.43 | cw666 | borg_: is that UI in the 'moko tree or something you did? |
| 19:37.43 | borg_ | where can i get the calculator? |
| 19:37.45 | borg_ | looks nice |
| 19:38.05 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 19:38.08 | borg_ | cw666: it is in the openmoko tree |
| 19:38.13 | cw666 | borg_: calc looks a lot like an HP42s, the best calculator ever made |
| 19:38.19 | cw666 | really, it is |
| 19:38.19 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:38.26 | Writchie | cw666: do you know how long to start up d-bus |
| 19:38.40 | cw666 | Writchie: no sorry, i dont |
| 19:39.23 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: screwed up my matchbox / session and now neo does not boot into gui |
| 19:39.54 | Writchie | it would be nice to be able to startup dbus and the phone daemon and a very basic FB based MMI. -- and then launch X at the rest of the MMI |
| 19:40.02 | Writchie | s/at/and/ |
| 19:40.06 | cw666 | Writchie: MMI is ? |
| 19:40.12 | Writchie | man machine interface |
| 19:40.16 | Ghiottone | hhf423, what about ssh? |
| 19:40.28 | cw666 | Writchie: oh, dunno, i think maybe just aim to get x started as quickly as possible |
| 19:40.38 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: no pc around... |
| 19:40.47 | Writchie | cw666: actually, the restart is more important |
| 19:40.53 | cw666 | Writchie: restart of? |
| 19:40.55 | Ghiottone | hhf423, argh! |
| 19:41.10 | Writchie | cw666: from so-called sleep mode aka suspend |
| 19:41.14 | Writchie | suspend to ram. |
| 19:41.18 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: exactly what i said ;-) |
| 19:41.25 | cw666 | Writchie: oh, that seems to be 100ms top or so to me |
| 19:41.28 | cw666 | Writchie: is it longer? |
| 19:41.30 | Ghiottone | hhf423, :) |
| 19:41.46 | Writchie | cw666: you are not sleeping yet |
| 19:41.54 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: looks like you got a lot done! |
| 19:42.02 | cw666 | Writchie: when it's in full PM mode what is it doing? |
| 19:42.06 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-016.eplus-online.de) |
| 19:42.10 | Ghiottone | hhf423, what do you mean? |
| 19:42.19 | Writchie | AFAIK we are no where near a full PM mode on the neo |
| 19:42.30 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: on settings gui |
| 19:42.41 | Writchie | with the processor powered off an only ram in self-refresh |
| 19:42.44 | cw666 | Writchie: yeah, im wondered about that... but the wiki seems to be out of date so it's not clear where things are at |
| 19:42.51 | cw666 | Writchie: and i can't find any mailing list discussion of this |
| 19:43.15 | Ghiottone | hhf423, I just did the packaging. The app is of kristian-m |
| 19:43.35 | Ghiottone | hhf423, but I learned a lot about bb recipes and openembedded tree in doing it :) |
| 19:43.43 | Writchie | some it was discussed here and a little bit on the ML re: BT wakeup |
| 19:44.22 | Writchie | i have no idea how much of the ARM kernel APM stuff is close to working. |
| 19:44.38 | edistar | ttyl, I'm off |
| 19:45.04 | Writchie | i imagine harald has this on his plate along with a bunch of other stuff. |
| 19:45.19 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: ah, i thought you helped kristian with other stuff as well, but having a package is good, help with the updating etc |
| 19:46.16 | Writchie | cw666: in any case, any more than a couple of seconds to resume is going to be probamatic |
| 19:46.32 | cw666 | Writchie: a desktop can do that, so i assume it will be much less |
| 19:47.20 | Ghiottone | hhf423, no, unfortunately I don't know python. But I like package management a lot :) |
| 19:47.27 | Writchie | cw666: only if all the drivers and devices are working correctly |
| 19:48.08 | Ghiottone | cw666, what's the package name of the scientific calc? |
| 19:48.32 | cw666 | Ghiottone: free42 probably, it's an HP42 emulator |
| 19:48.41 | cw666 | (i just looked, i have the real calc, it's most wonderful) |
| 19:50.37 | Writchie | cw666: just learned today that PM chip in GTA02 is different so there are a bunch of issues there as well. |
| 19:50.47 | Ghiottone | cw666, oh I thought you did it. sorry. but there is no free42 package in oe :( |
| 19:52.07 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 19:52.11 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 19:52.15 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: the free42 can be found on the wiki |
| 19:53.18 | hhf423 | its documented on one of the user pages |
| 19:53.59 | cw666 | Writchie|away: oh, any details on the differences and issues there? |
| 19:54.31 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt]] |
| 19:57.52 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 19:59.34 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse_home (n=root@69.73.127.92) |
| 20:00.35 | Ghiottone | hhf423, thanks! I found it, but only with my search engine. The wiki search engine is not very good |
| 20:00.40 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno_ (n=Pupeno@89-125-144-76.dhcp-ripwave.irishbroadband.ie) |
| 20:00.51 | cw666 | Ghiottone: URL? |
| 20:01.09 | cw666 | nm, google found it |
| 20:01.42 | Ghiottone | cw666, yeah there is only one page on *.openmoko.org |
| 20:01.58 | Ghiottone | cw666, but it is not usable directly, unfortunately |
| 20:02.22 | *** join/#openmoko eric_ (n=eric@139.57.44.16) |
| 20:03.38 | eric_ | hey |
| 20:04.38 | gcb77 | looks like the VMWare image is gaining popularity, I'm seeing between 40-50 downloads |
| 20:05.54 | *** join/#openmoko eric_ (n=epp@139.57.44.16) |
| 20:06.23 | *** join/#openmoko nab_ (n=nab@64-172-115-2.ded.pacbell.net) |
| 20:06.49 | *** join/#openmoko epp (n=Eric@139.57.44.16) |
| 20:07.23 | abraxa_ | borg_: That gstreamer error means that it can't access the audio device as something else already uses it - got anything else running that might conflict? |
| 20:08.02 | borg_ | nothing that i know of |
| 20:08.07 | *** join/#openmoko epjp (n=Eric@139.57.44.16) |
| 20:08.49 | borg_ | http://pastebin.ca/684482 |
| 20:09.08 | borg_ | abraxa_: do you see something? |
| 20:09.59 | abraxa_ | Try killing pulseaudio |
| 20:10.25 | abraxa_ | That's the driver for the Wolfson coded afaik |
| 20:10.32 | abraxa_ | codec* |
| 20:10.33 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.44.16) |
| 20:10.49 | Ghiottone | I easily managed to run synergy on the neo. but the cursor is not shown. how can I make it appear? |
| 20:11.11 | borg_ | abraxa_: works |
| 20:11.12 | borg_ | mh |
| 20:11.31 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@brusc.guerrier.info) |
| 20:11.38 | borg_ | i have not startet anything before the mediaplayer after i bootet |
| 20:12.07 | abraxa_ | Interesting... it works out-of-the-box for me |
| 20:12.51 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 20:13.08 | *** join/#openmoko milo_ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-076-251-220.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:15.01 | hhf423 | gcb77: vmware image of what? |
| 20:16.54 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: have a look on the community ml, i think there was something on unhiding the cursor |
| 20:17.14 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2936 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c: openmoko-panel-gsm: catch up with API breakage in libmokogsmd |
| 20:17.15 | abraxa_ | The community ml... *shudders* |
| 20:17.34 | abraxa_ | There's sooo much traffic on there |
| 20:18.05 | gcb77 | hhf423: VMWare image of OpenMoko dev environment |
| 20:21.06 | *** join/#openmoko emdete (n=mdt@ip75.3.1411K-CUD12K-01.ish.de) |
| 20:21.15 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: it was discussed today/yesterday on the community ml, synergy subject i think |
| 20:21.35 | CM | gcb77: What distro? Clean makefile environment or? |
| 20:21.41 | hhf423 | gcb77: based on ubuntu ? |
| 20:22.10 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: Oh come on. |
| 20:22.19 | gcb77 | Ubuntu 7.0.4, fluxbox, with MokoMakefile |
| 20:22.25 | *** join/#openmoko jcazor (n=juan62@220.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 20:22.42 | SpeedEvil | Now that was a mailing list. |
| 20:23.03 | Hopscotch | i can forward you at least 1gb of lkml - if you missed something :) |
| 20:23.05 | hhf423 | hahaha |
| 20:23.05 | abraxa_ | Yeah well, heh... ;) |
| 20:23.48 | CM | Didn't Linus say something like "There's so much traffic no one can follow it all, except Alan Cox |
| 20:23.54 | Ghiottone | hhf423, lol. It was me that asked on the mailing list how to display the cursor |
| 20:24.37 | Ghiottone | hhf423, :) |
| 20:24.49 | hhf423 | Ghiottone: ah, ;-) i did not look at the name |
| 20:25.21 | Ghiottone | hhf423, well you could not have known, as it is not ghiottone :) |
| 20:25.27 | Ghiottone | hhf423, my real name is Alessandro |
| 20:26.21 | hhf423 | but i know from the settings gui wiki page that your name is alessandro ;-) |
| 20:26.55 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[Away (n=Brescia@adsl-165-182.38-151.net24.it) |
| 20:26.57 | Ghiottone | hhf423, oh! yeah right :) |
| 20:27.31 | hhf423 | so, back to the paper, tty all later! |
| 20:27.33 | *** part/#openmoko hhf423 (n=user@tmo-100-1.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 20:32.54 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A54922.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:33.55 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe_ (n=Eric@139.57.44.16) |
| 20:35.40 | ScaredyCat | lua lua woooo .... |
| 20:35.50 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@m480e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 20:35.51 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 20:36.27 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe_ (n=Eric@139.57.44.16) |
| 20:36.42 | Ghiottone | installing things on the neo is really amazing :) |
| 20:37.42 | *** join/#openmoko holymoly (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:39.23 | ScaredyCat | lua + gtk2 bindings... http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/b62fdafde7c739bbe4abc7ec3d3b8215.png |
| 20:44.43 | SpeedEvil | I actually missed 6 months once, and caught up |
| 20:45.32 | ixs | nevening |
| 20:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.44.16) |
| 20:45.40 | ixs | any idea who is responsible for flash.sh? |
| 20:50.35 | roh | ixs Last Changed Author: andrew |
| 20:50.54 | roh | makes sense.. and its him who hacks on our qemu |
| 20:53.40 | ixs | roh: mhm okay. IS he on irc? |
| 20:56.27 | roh | ixs dunno |
| 20:57.15 | ixs | pity |
| 20:58.08 | roh | whats wrong with it? |
| 20:58.23 | roh | when youre unshure.. just file a bug |
| 20:59.29 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:01.11 | ixs | roh: dunno if it's makefile related or so. make qemu-flash-local calls the sleep binary here with values from uboot env. I'd like to confirm that first. |
| 21:02.38 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0D7FB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:04.31 | gcb77 | grr, I'm running into the problem with the USB id changing every time I plug in the NEO |
| 21:04.45 | gcb77 | The strange part is this never happens on my home system, only on my Laptop |
| 21:05.01 | gcb77 | Both running openSUSE 10.2, at the same update version |
| 21:05.19 | cjb_ie | you're plugging into the same port each time? |
| 21:05.26 | *** part/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@c-67-189-220-92.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 21:05.28 | gcb77 | yes |
| 21:05.43 | gcb77 | Actually, it happens after I do network stop/start too |
| 21:05.51 | roh | gcb77 the usb id should stay the same. |
| 21:05.52 | gcb77 | without unplugging |
| 21:05.53 | cjb_ie | ew. |
| 21:06.04 | roh | the mac is random on boot or so.. |
| 21:06.10 | cjb_ie | some sort of weird power issue ors? |
| 21:06.20 | Ghiottone | the free42 calculator is fantastic! |
| 21:06.23 | roh | unless you set it via modparam |
| 21:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-a9d0a58b98389d21) |
| 21:06.55 | gcb77 | Can't be on the NEO side, since it never happens with the desktop at home |
| 21:07.29 | roh | gcb77 what id changes? |
| 21:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd` (n=urk@cpe-71-67-176-137.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 21:08.32 | SpeedEvil | Is it the ethernet ID? |
| 21:08.57 | roh | wtf is a ethernet id? |
| 21:09.05 | Ghiottone | I read somewhere that the usb ethernet mac address changes everytime |
| 21:09.06 | SpeedEvil | ethernet MAC then |
| 21:09.07 | Aria | MAC address |
| 21:09.20 | Ghiottone | and that they have asked for a valid set of addresses for gta02 |
| 21:09.41 | roh | Ghiottone ack. |
| 21:14.56 | *** join/#openmoko psymin (n=psymin@smtpstatic.blackfoot.net) |
| 21:16.23 | *** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 21:16.43 | gcb77 | wha, its not doing it anymore |
| 21:17.25 | gcb77 | it works every time now. I think it was my configuration |
| 21:17.41 | gcb77 | on the network side |
| 21:19.49 | gcb77 | The strange thing is that when I restarted the networking, my USB keyboard stopped responding. I wonder if there was some kind of conflict going on |
| 21:20.05 | Aria | Goodness |
| 21:21.24 | *** join/#openmoko satadru (n=satadru@cpe-69-201-133-23.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=Wally@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
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| 21:42.44 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=8118f9db@xen.linuxtrent.it) |
| 21:42.47 | bedboi | hi all |
| 21:43.16 | bedboi | is there some FIC guy? |
| 21:43.50 | hp__ | in here? |
| 21:43.56 | hp__ | i don't think so bedboi |
| 21:44.15 | ScaredyCat | parp |
| 21:45.11 | bedboi | new ipaqs are coming out |
| 21:45.22 | bedboi | they are still shipping windows ce |
| 21:45.26 | bedboi | stupid guys |
| 21:45.35 | Ghiottone | if anyone wants to try it, my google custom search engine is accessible at http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ |
| 21:45.47 | bedboi | is there any serious reason for using wince? |
| 21:45.55 | Stephmw | Ghiottone: what's the value add? |
| 21:46.22 | Stephmw | bedboi: existing application base, distribution channels, proven marketability |
| 21:46.27 | Stephmw | bedboi: etc, etc |
| 21:47.33 | Ghiottone | Stephmw, it is google but restricted only to openmoko sites |
| 21:47.51 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07D82B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@Z72b9.z.pppool.de) |
| 21:48.03 | Ghiottone | Stephmw, and it has tags for mailing list, wiki, code and some technical docs |
| 21:48.14 | Stephmw | Ghiottone: not a bad idea |
| 21:48.21 | Ghiottone | Stephmw, thanks :) |
| 21:48.45 | Ghiottone | Stephmw, some feedback on how it works would be very appreciated :) |
| 21:49.47 | *** join/#openmoko Husare (n=AD@stgt-590e4948.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 21:50.03 | cb22 | Ghiottone, thats pretty nifty |
| 21:53.48 | Ghiottone | cb22, thank you :) |
| 21:54.18 | cb22 | Ghiottone, what would really kick ass is if you could somehow put the latest things on the front page |
| 21:54.31 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenEmbedded]] [[Meet_the_Core_Team/es]] [[Meet_the_Core_Team]] [[FIC/es]] [[Basic_End-user/es]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] |
| 21:54.33 | cb22 | like, recent changes, new posts to community, new bugs |
| 21:54.39 | cb22 | then it would be awesome |
| 21:55.26 | Ghiottone | do you mean on the first page of the results or the front web page? |
| 21:55.46 | cb22 | on the front web page |
| 21:56.26 | Ghiottone | cb22, great idea... but I wonder how it could be done |
| 21:56.44 | polz | is it normal for /etc/init.d/gsmd stop to cause a hard lock ? |
| 21:56.58 | cb22 | polz, i think so, from what i've been hearing |
| 21:57.03 | cb22 | but not too sure |
| 21:57.05 | hads | Ghiottone: You've got some funky HTML and javscript on there that makes it not work in Konqueror. |
| 21:57.12 | polz | oh, OK then :P |
| 21:57.51 | cw666 | polz: on rcent builds, sorta yeah |
| 21:58.04 | cb22 | well, recent changes are avalable as a RSS feed |
| 21:58.06 | cw666 | polz: what it does is drop the gsm modem from the uart and kill usb networking |
| 21:58.08 | Ghiottone | hads, damn. I'd give it a try. most of javascript is for google custom search, so I fear that it could not be fixed |
| 21:58.35 | cw666 | polz: you need to hack /etc/init.d/gsmd to avoid this |
| 21:58.59 | hads | Ghiottone: It works in firefox but if you check the error console there you'll see what I'm talking about. |
| 22:02.03 | Ghiottone | hads, oh yes. I can see three errors, thanks! |
| 22:02.17 | Ghiottone | hads, I'll check if I can fix them |
| 22:05.09 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=user@tmo-100-1.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 22:05.42 | hhf423 | amazing, apple gives money back |
| 22:06.01 | hhf423 | well, gift certificates |
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| 22:11.43 | polz | cw666: which options cause that ? |
| 22:12.03 | polz | cw666: or are you just supposed to stop gsmd from actually getting killed _ |
| 22:13.31 | gcb77 | I just did an update and I see this error: /etc/rc5.d/S35gsmd: /etc/rc5.d/S35gsmd: 46: cannot create : Directory nonexistent |
| 22:15.11 | Ghiottone | wb hhf423 |
| 22:15.51 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F85D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:16.25 | Ghiottone | hads, I have just tested it and it works with konqueror |
| 22:16.52 | Ghiottone | hads, although not perfectly |
| 22:17.24 | cw666 | polz: i just updated the bug for it; sec |
| 22:17.51 | cw666 | polz: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 22:18.10 | cw666 | polz: see the last comment from me; let me know if it's not clear |
| 22:19.00 | hads | Ghiottone: Still doesn't here (3.5.7), but don't stress too much :) |
| 22:19.40 | Ghiottone | hads, 3.5.7 here as well... what is exactly that does not work? |
| 22:20.13 | hads | Ghiottone: If you submit the form it goes to the proper URL but no search results appear. |
| 22:22.26 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley2 (n=brad@70.89.246.46) |
| 22:23.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 803 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de |
| 22:23.01 | cdbot2 | * * x11perf comparison |
| 22:23.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=803 |
| 22:23.30 | polz | cw666: actually, the phone shuts down if you hold the power button for approx. 20s |
| 22:24.00 | cw666 | polz: umm... and? did i send you the wrong bug#? |
| 22:25.02 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 22:25.37 | Ghiottone | hads, the search engine works for me. but the errors are there |
| 22:26.04 | Ghiottone | hads, don't know why with my konqueror it works. maybe a different javascript configuration? |
| 22:26.25 | hads | It's no major drama, Firefox is right there :) |
| 22:26.37 | Ghiottone | hads, :) |
| 22:26.50 | polz | cw666: no, it's just a comment - the bugreport says you have to remove the battery. |
| 22:26.55 | polz | you don't. |
| 22:28.48 | cw666 | polz: that information is incorrect |
| 22:32.38 | *** part/#openmoko hhf423 (n=user@tmo-100-1.customers.d1-online.com) |
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| 22:44.22 | polz | cw666: well, in my case, holding the power button works. |
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| 22:44.50 | cw666 | polz: to power it off sure, but if you need to ssh in and restart gsmd (as i do) then it's a shitty solution |
| 22:44.56 | cw666 | gsmd doesnt work w/o a restart for me |
| 22:45.32 | polz | that's true. |
| 22:46.00 | polz | it wasn't supposed to be a solution - it's just a way of avoiding having to open the lid |
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| 22:49.56 | Ghiottone | cb22, for recent changes you mean that on the wiki? yeah I know, I am subscribed. But what about the mailing list? |
| 22:50.18 | cb22 | hmm, dunno |
| 22:50.42 | cb22 | it would be nice if the archives had an rss feed |
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| 22:54.12 | Ghiottone | yeah. |
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| 23:07.44 | riot | where does openmoko-today store its configuration? |
| 23:08.14 | gcb77 | There it is again, I did ipkg update, and now USB has a different id: usb0: register 'cdc_ether' at usb-0000:00:1d.1-2, CDC Ethernet Device, 9a:61:67:bf:3b:ec |
| 23:08.34 | gcb77 | Old entry was: usb0: register 'cdc_ether' at usb-0000:00:1d.1-2, CDC Ethernet Device, 3e:7a:ec:ee:83:32 |
| 23:11.11 | Aria | gcb77: For the record, the USB ID is either the USB serial number or USB manufacturer+device ID. That's an ethernet MAC address. |
| 23:11.25 | riot | gnf. |
| 23:11.27 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@rn083002.morris.umn.edu) |
| 23:11.36 | riot | my build (unedited) hangs very often. |
| 23:11.45 | riot | full machine stop :( |
| 23:12.21 | gcb77 | I see, the usb-0000:00:1d.1-2 is the usb bus location? |
| 23:12.56 | riot | gcb77: yes. |
| 23:13.16 | riot | Aria: on cdc-ether, the mac-addr is freely changeable, right? |
| 23:14.55 | Aria | I'm not sure, but that would't surprise me |
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| 23:17.30 | riot | gah. Build is full of bugs'n'fleas. |
| 23:17.51 | riot | at least scummvm runs |
| 23:19.07 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=alphaone@2001:638:602:af01:0:0:0:1) |
| 23:19.15 | riot | uh, is that slow via ssh-X11 |
| 23:19.41 | SpeedEvil | you don't need to go through ssh |
| 23:20.27 | riot | SpeedEvil: but how do i start scummvm on the neo, then? the terminal is broken (can't find termcap), mrxvt and scummvm don't get a menu-entry :( |
| 23:20.59 | SpeedEvil | export DISPLAY=192.168.0.202:0 |
| 23:21.12 | SpeedEvil | and ssh 192.168.0.202 xhost 192.168.0.200 |
| 23:21.17 | *** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org) |
| 23:21.39 | SpeedEvil | then anything you run on the host (x-wise) should start |
| 23:21.50 | riot | oh, aah. you mean oh. i get it.. but i don't think, that'll help.. the bottleneck is the usb-connection, i think |
| 23:21.55 | SpeedEvil | actually, you probably will need to ssh in, set DISPLAY correctly. |
| 23:22.02 | riot | scummvm pushes about 400-500 kb/sec |
| 23:22.04 | SpeedEvil | Depends what it's doing. |
| 23:22.25 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I found firefox quite acceptable on it. |
| 23:22.28 | SpeedEvil | But, ... |
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| 23:23.24 | riot | yes, i can imagine.. scummvm tries to update the whole screen as fast as it can. Thats too much for the slow usb-connection |
| 23:23.46 | Aria | I have GOT to make NX work on the Neo. |
| 23:23.50 | Aria | It'd fix that |
| 23:24.28 | riot | hmm. never tried nx, but i heard and read many arguments backing your point :) |
| 23:24.44 | MrFeetio | I hope someone gets openmoko running on a iphone |
| 23:25.07 | SpeedEvil | Naah. Iphone - virtualised on Neo would be so much cooler :) |
| 23:25.11 | riot | now, how do i create a menu-entry in om-today for scummvm? i tried by copying some of the desktop-files, but that one just starts the calculator.. (wtf?!) |
| 23:25.18 | riot | who needs apple's crap? |
| 23:25.26 | riot | SpeedEvil: ack :D |
| 23:25.30 | SpeedEvil | Just as a demo, I don't mean to run it. |
| 23:25.53 | riot | yeah, that'd look cool, somehow. "Heh, we can do your silly stuff. Boxed." |
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| 23:27.18 | MrFeetio | the iphone has decent hardware, it's the software I dislike |
| 23:29.37 | riot | for one, the display is crap. Imho, gta2 will blow the iphone away, just by hw-specs. |
| 23:29.38 | riot | wow, it crashed just by touching the display... :( |
| 23:29.46 | ynezz | there will be iphone2 already when gta2 make it to market |
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| 23:36.20 | riot | is it dangerous to remove the battery, when the phone is still connected via usb? |
| 23:36.20 | ljp | probably. i did it once it the phone made a loud screetch |
| 23:36.20 | riot | ljp: yes, and it blinked around wildly |
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| 23:36.21 | ynezz | don't try it at home... |
| 23:36.21 | kristian-m | riot never had a problem with is - apart from the beeping - use it to reset the neo sometimes |
| 23:36.21 | riot | shit. my build keeps crashing and crashing... |
| 23:36.21 | kristian-m | riot it does, when you restart gsmd, rigth? |
| 23:36.22 | riot | hmm.. yes.. that is possible. |
| 23:36.22 | riot | removing the simcard doesn't help, though.. and the last crash occured during startup of the xserver |
| 23:36.29 | riot | hm. I'm gonna get me some doner kebap.. l8er.. |
| 23:36.34 | SpeedEvil | Sure the battery is charged? |
| 23:36.36 | SpeedEvil | Wave. |
| 23:36.39 | riot | SpeedEvil: yes. |
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| 23:44.01 | kristian-m | riot if you don't use the gsm part, remove the 4 lines where 0 and 1 is piped to the sysfs nodes - see http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
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| 23:54.23 | Ghiottone | hey kristian-m |
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| 23:58.47 | kristian-m | hi Ghiottone :-) |
| 23:59.02 | kristian-m | Ghiottone the package workes great |
| 23:59.23 | Ghiottone | great! :) |
