IRC log for #openmoko on 20070818

`00:00.52`	`*** join/#openmoko infernixx (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix)`
`00:01.30`	`DukeOfURL`	`is the stuff inside a Li-ion battery toxic?`
`00:01.45`	`DukeOfURL`	`flammable?`
`00:02.01`	`SpeedEvil`	`Moderately, and yes.`
`00:02.23`	`anrp`	`loads of fun if you just spear it!`
`00:02.28`	`DukeOfURL`	`so it's not a good idea to break one open...`
`00:02.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`No.`
`00:02.44`	`anrp`	`depends on what you're trying to do`
`00:02.48`	`anrp`	`>_>`
`00:02.53`	`DukeOfURL`	`how does the battery regulate charging>`
`00:03.07`	`DukeOfURL`	`heat?`
`00:03.16`	`anrp`	`lithium is generally constant current to 4.235V or so (0.3C)`
`00:03.17`	`jseghers`	`Duke: very carefully :)`
`00:03.24`	`anrp`	`then CV until the current drops below a threshold`
`00:03.34`	`anrp`	`then it's done`
`00:03.47`	`anrp`	`technically the CV portion is overcharging, but it gives about 10-20% more runtime`
`00:03.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`Or till a time threshold.`
`00:04.11`	`DukeOfURL`	`what was the deal with the exploding laptops?`
`00:04.16`	`anrp`	`bad manufacturing`
`00:04.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`defective batteries.`
`00:04.22`	`DukeOfURL`	`battery recall, etc.`
`00:04.32`	`jseghers`	`poorly-matched individual cells, probably`
`00:04.45`	`anrp`	`apparantly his noodlyness dislikes sony`
`00:04.48`	`anrp`	`;)`
`00:05.04`	`DukeOfURL`	`sony is on my shit list`
`00:05.05`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z5926.z.pppool.de)`
`00:05.06`	`jseghers`	`LI-ion cells are not "mix & match" the way other cells are.`
`00:05.16`	`anrp`	`few cells are, most don't care though`
`00:05.19`	`anrp`	`lithium cares`
`00:05.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`It cares with explosions.`
`00:05.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`Little ones, but fun.`
`00:05.59`	`DukeOfURL`	`I've long since forgotten the periodic table, but is Lithium near Sodium?`
`00:06.00`	`anrp`	`i have a half kilowatt hour brick of lithium sitting behind me`
`00:06.01`	`jseghers`	`Something tells me they need to take some lithium... :)`
`00:06.13`	`anrp`	`it would make a big boom if i charged it wrong D:`
`00:06.15`	`ckuethe`	`DukeOfURL: yes. alkali metals`
`00:06.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`lithium is at the top of the alkali metals chart`
`00:06.41`	`mwester`	`It always makes me chuckle when I'm in the security line at an airport here in the US -- they take away lighters and matches, but let people go on the plane with Lithium batteries....`
`00:06.47`	`SpeedEvil`	`sodium is just below it.`
`00:06.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`And USB cords.`
`00:06.56`	`ckuethe`	`mwester: SHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!`
`00:07.03`	`anrp`	`hydrocarbons are more scary`
`00:07.08`	`*** join/#openmoko freak01 (n=freak@83-71-39-23.b-ras1.srl.dublin.eircom.net)`
`00:07.09`	`anrp`	`lithium is "just a battery"`
`00:07.10`	`ckuethe`	`stop giving them more ideas`
`00:07.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's gonna be fun when fuel cell 'batteries' hit.`
`00:07.31`	`mwester`	`hehe!`
`00:07.38`	`ckuethe`	`travel would be utterly unbearable without all my lithium-powered toys`
`00:07.46`	`anrp`	`indeed`
`00:07.47`	`ckuethe`	`PSP, ipod, laptop, ...`
`00:08.03`	`anrp`	`my lithium brick ran my laptop for 13 hours straight on a transpac flight`
`00:08.20`	`DukeOfURL`	`how heavy?`
`00:08.30`	`ynezz`	`not much, 8kg`
`00:08.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`haha.`
`00:08.35`	`anrp`	`it weighed about 2kg?`
`00:08.38`	`anrp`	`or so`
`00:08.45`	`anrp`	`no must be a bit more..`
`00:09.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`At 1.1Kg.`
`00:09.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`(inc the battery)`
`00:09.25`	`anrp`	`i was using 40w continuously though D:`
`00:09.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`Ah.`
`00:09.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`Mine uses rather less.`
`00:10.09`	`anrp`	`mm actually, that was right`
`00:10.15`	`anrp`	`my battery pack was right around 2kg`
`00:10.25`	`anrp`	`maybe 2.3-4 ish`
`00:11.21`	`cesarb`	`Hm, as I suspected, UPS do have a presence here in Rio de Janeiro`
`00:11.41`	`cesarb`	`The page on where to drop packages for sending has a list`
`00:11.55`	`anrp`	`!= receiving depot`
`00:12.23`	`anrp`	`lots of places take packages for shipping companies here that aren't ups/fedex related`
`00:12.55`	`doc\|work`	`sony00`
`00:13.01`	`doc\|work`	`er, sony-- rather`
`00:17.09`	`Kliment`	`what commands are you guys using for playing mp3s on this`
`00:17.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`madplay`
`00:17.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`mplayer`
`00:17.25`	`Kliment`	`ah, madplay`
`00:17.28`	`Kliment`	`of course`
`00:17.30`	`Kliment`	`thanks`
`00:19.23`	`*** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk)`
`00:20.36`	`*** part/#openmoko W00tomgbb (n=omq@a89-182-92-254.net-htp.de)`
`00:21.02`	`Kliment`	`and ogg123 for oggs`
`00:21.22`	`Kliment`	`this thing has way better speakers than my laptop`
`00:21.43`	`hozer`	`heh`
`00:22.31`	`hozer`	`what rootfs are most people using?`
`00:23.00`	`Kliment`	`hozer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing#20070813_with_kernel_2.6.21.5-r2`
`00:23.03`	`Kliment`	`these I guess`
`00:24.25`	`Kliment`	`I'm not joking, the worst thing about my otherwise wonderful laptop are the speakers`
`00:24.35`	`Kliment`	`and the neo sounds way better`
`00:24.52`	`anrp`	`i haven't actually ever had my neo make any noise yet`
`00:27.12`	`freak01`	`hmm later will sound a little bit worse cause of mono speakers :/`
`00:27.18`	`freak01`	`speaker*`
`00:28.28`	`Kliment`	`anrp: the 2007.2 image on the page I linked makes noise by default`
`00:30.02`	`ckuethe`	`iiinnnnteresting....`
`00:33.38`	`*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com)`
`00:34.20`	`*** join/#openmoko Expecto (i=46eaad10@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-c0c9ab9c4b283e7f)`
`00:41.35`	`*** join/#openmoko mattzerah (n=matt@121.50.222.55)`
`00:42.28`	`Kliment`	`madplay eats 20% cpu, ogg123 eats 70+%`
`00:43.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`mplayer can be a bit lighter`
`00:48.13`	`Kliment`	`is there any way of changing the font size in the terminal and onscreen keyboard in 2007.2?`
`00:56.06`	`*** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171)`
`01:00.10`	`*** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx)`
`01:00.18`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Pdesai]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Francisco]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Virginia]]`
`01:01.31`	`*** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com)`
`01:04.04`	`rwhitby`	`RP: testing bitbake rev 913 now`
`01:07.51`	`*** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net)`
`01:08.05`	`*** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net)`
`01:12.45`	`rwhitby`	`RP: dependency problem has not reappeared here since the bitbake update`
`01:16.01`	`*** join/#openmoko gavin8or (n=gavin8or@207-118-156-176.dyn.centurytel.net)`
`01:16.58`	`gavin8or`	`Yay I got my GTA01 in the mail today!`
`01:17.10`	`gavin8or`	`On a friday too... that's awesome`
`01:18.00`	`gavin8or`	`How can I confirm if I have a faulty GSM modem? I get no response when I issue a AT+CPIN=?`
`01:18.00`	`aloril`	`gavin8or: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)`
`01:18.34`	`gavin8or`	`Thnx bot, good pages for sure :)`
`01:19.10`	`cesarb`	`gavin8or: that's not a bot, that's a script`
`01:19.31`	`gavin8or`	`ah my bad`
`01:19.52`	`anrp`	`boo`
`01:19.55`	`anrp`	`why'd you tell em?`
`01:20.00`	`anrp`	`would have been interesting to watch`
`01:20.00`	`anrp`	`D:`
`01:20.24`	`cesarb`	`gavin8or: at least you got yours, instead of crazy UPS statuses like "THE RECEIVER DID NOT HAVE FUNDS AVAILABLE ON THE 1ST DELIVERY ATTEMPT" when no delivery was attempted and "NO ONE ANSWERED THE PHONE WHEN UPS CALLED" when nobody called at all`
`01:20.37`	`gavin8or`	`haha`
`01:20.57`	`gavin8or`	`I got on their case the day after I punched in my Credit Card and it got delivered`
`01:23.24`	`*** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@200-193-152-9.mganm702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)`
`01:30.17`	`*** join/#openmoko [1]Jeff1f (i=HydraIRC@adsl-75-40-232-86.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net)`
`01:30.18`	`anrp`	`i ordered immediately after the store opened and got it with no hassle... just a bit of delay`
`01:31.54`	`*** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-27-200.cust.wildblue.net)`
`01:37.45`	`gavin8or`	`haha I'm watching strongbad email movies on my GTA01`
`01:37.52`	`gavin8or`	`haha`
`01:43.57`	`juri___`	`cesarb: mine's in germany. i'm in the central US. feel lucky.`
`01:46.36`	`*** join/#openmoko Jeff1f (i=HydraIRC@adsl-75-40-232-86.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net)`
`01:47.51`	`*** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-68-241.dynamic.hinet.net)`
`01:49.16`	`cesarb`	`juri___: ouch`
`01:50.48`	`*** join/#openmoko vallor (n=Rock@frenzy.wba.ponzo.net)`
`01:51.53`	`vallor`	`woo hoo! got my neo1973 kit today -- where is the link on the wiki where folks were logging their order numbers & date of receipt?`
`01:52.15`	`ckuethe`	`P1_Owners`
`01:52.34`	`vallor`	`thx :)`
`01:57.08`	`gavin8or`	`I'm hanging at :`
`01:57.19`	`gavin8or`	`root@fic-gta01:~$ cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 Connected.`
`01:57.29`	`gavin8or`	`:( any ideas?`
`01:58.32`	`gavin8or`	`And where do I find out what my CPIN is? I'm using a CellularOne SIM card`
`02:01.40`	`*** join/#openmoko Interlocutor (n=slick@c-67-188-133-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`02:02.55`	`ckuethe`	`howzabout whatever you use for your PIN, if you enter one?`
`02:02.56`	`Interlocutor`	`hey there everyone I just got my Neo today!!!`
`02:04.38`	`Jeff1f`	`how's it working?`
`02:05.12`	`gavin8or`	`What do you mean my PIN? they never gave me one`
`02:05.31`	`Interlocutor`	`I'm still trying to get it to work but I have confidence... I need to get to where I can shell into it before I try editing a file`
`02:05.37`	`gavin8or`	`There's a "Prepay PIN on the cashier's receipt"`
`02:05.55`	`gavin8or`	`haha getting a shell is easy easy`
`02:06.18`	`ckuethe`	`of course it's easy`
`02:08.19`	`Interlocutor`	`well I have a shell on the device I mean I need to ssh into it`
`02:08.47`	`Interlocutor`	`from my laptop, because I don't want to try and vi with the stylus`
`02:08.58`	`daMaestro`	`is your laptop linux?`
`02:09.04`	`Interlocutor`	`yes FC6`
`02:09.24`	`daMaestro`	`ahh.. i can give you a netplug definition to automagically set it up (including nat)`
`02:09.25`	`daMaestro`	`lol`
`02:09.40`	`daMaestro`	`Interlocutor, ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0`
`02:09.44`	`Interlocutor`	`sure that would be awesome thanks`
`02:10.02`	`daMaestro`	`Interlocutor, do you have any other networks that match 192.168.0.0/24?`
`02:10.43`	`Interlocutor`	`no my home network is 192.168.1.0/24`
`02:10.47`	`gavin8or`	`hrm right now my modem is freezing at`
`02:10.49`	`daMaestro`	`ahh then you should be fine`
`02:10.50`	`gavin8or`	`AT-Command Inter`
`02:11.04`	`daMaestro`	`after doing the ifconfig, you should be able to ssh to 192.168.0.202`
`02:11.04`	`gavin8or`	`It can't finish the sentence`
`02:11.54`	`Interlocutor`	`hrm my usb0 isn't a network device`
`02:12.33`	`gavin8or`	`Interlocutor, USB_Networking in the wifi`
`02:12.35`	`daMaestro`	`strange, works fine for me on f7`
`02:12.38`	`gavin8or`	`Sorry wiki`
`02:12.47`	`Interlocutor`	`thanks`
`02:13.27`	`Interlocutor`	`I had originally searched for usb netowork`
`02:13.32`	`gavin8or`	`Just follow that and you can make it work, worst case senario is you didn't compile USB networking into your kernel but it even has easy steps for how to correct that :)`
`02:13.53`	`daMaestro`	`there is usb networking in the fedora kernel`
`02:14.51`	`gavin8or`	`Yes but when he did menuconfig on his last recompile he might have de-selected the option`
`02:15.15`	`gavin8or`	`I do stuff like that too when I do a recompile after midnight or while drunk ;)`
`02:18.24`	`Interlocutor`	`yeah I was recompiling me kernel for these stupid texas instruments usb-serial drivers for these GPRS modems I'm messing with so I might have unselected them`
`02:19.03`	`gavin8or`	`Fri Aug 17 21:17:49 2007 <8> gsmd.c:227:firstcmd_tmr_cb() No response from GSM Modemroot@fic-gta01:`
`02:19.08`	`gavin8or`	`That's bad isn't it?`
`02:20.02`	`gavin8or`	`That's what I get from gsmd when I issue the AT+FUN=1 command :(`
`02:21.23`	`gavin8or`	`Bug 256 is Closed "I heard about nobody with this problem again. If somebody still suffer from this`
`02:21.23`	`gavin8or`	`please reopen."`
`02:21.35`	`gavin8or`	`I guess I'll have to re-open the bug eh? No way to make this work?`
`02:24.00`	`anrp`	`does it respond at all?`
`02:24.02`	`anrp`	`i.e.`
`02:24.07`	`anrp`	`killall gsmd`
`02:24.26`	`gavin8or`	`~$ killall gsmd`
`02:24.27`	`gavin8or`	`killall: gsmd: no process killed`
`02:24.34`	`gavin8or`	`haha maybe that was my problem?`
`02:25.01`	`anrp`	`..`
`02:25.01`	`anrp`	`maybe`
`02:25.01`	`anrp`	`anyway, was going to say`
`02:25.01`	`gavin8or`	`I'm running it like this:`
`02:25.01`	`gavin8or`	`root@fic-gta01:~$ gsmd -F -s 115200 -p /dev/ttySAC0`
`02:25.22`	`anrp`	`stty raw 115200 < /dev/ttySAC0 ; cat /dev/ttySAC0 &`
`02:25.35`	`anrp`	`printf 'AT+FUN=1\r\n' > /dev/ttySAC0`
`02:26.02`	`ckuethe`	`cu ...`
`02:26.04`	`anrp`	`... what is fun?`
`02:26.09`	`anrp`	`thought it was +CFUN=1`
`02:26.10`	`*** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@71-35-72-17.phnx.qwest.net)`
`02:26.20`	`anrp`	`printf/cat!`
`02:26.28`	`ckuethe`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM_07.07`
`02:26.33`	`anrp`	`handy for sending hex codes and such`
`02:26.39`	`anrp`	`for develing micros`
`02:26.47`	`gavin8or`	`Thanks`
`02:26.59`	`anrp`	`and you can pipe cat to xxd and get a scrolling hex code dump of the serial ( == super nice)`
`02:27.17`	`Interlocutor`	`gonna reboot bbiaf`
`02:27.20`	`*** part/#openmoko Interlocutor (n=slick@c-67-188-133-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`02:27.28`	`anrp`	`x-chat D:`
`02:31.07`	`gavin8or`	`those cat commands seemed to have zombied`
`02:31.10`	`gavin8or`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:31.10`	`gavin8or`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:31.21`	`gavin8or`	`You say that FUN isn't a real AT command?`
`02:31.24`	`anrp`	`wot`
`02:31.25`	`ckuethe`	`yes, process management seems a bit weak`
`02:31.29`	`anrp`	`no, i just don't recall it`
`02:31.34`	`anrp`	`it might be afaik`
`02:31.36`	`ckuethe`	`lots of things zombie...`
`02:32.33`	`anrp`	`that's usually Bad(tm)`
`02:33.20`	`ckuethe`	`i'll have to hook up a serial console and grab all the things exiting improperly/unexpectedly...`
`02:33.25`	`anrp`	`course that doesn't really help you`
`02:33.36`	`anrp`	`dmesg -> pastebin ?`
`02:33.51`	`gavin8or`	`YES!!!`
`02:33.56`	`gavin8or`	`AT-Command Interpreter ready`
`02:34.02`	`anrp`	`so, your modem works`
`02:34.06`	`anrp`	`something funny with gsmd`
`02:34.08`	`gavin8or`	`:) haha I had to turn the modem on and off WHILE running cu`
`02:34.18`	`anrp`	`er, wait, it was off?`
`02:34.44`	`gavin8or`	`No it was on`
`02:35.22`	`gavin8or`	`I had turned it on and off and on and off but for some reason I had to start cu, turn it off and on again, and then go back to cu and hit Control-C`
`02:35.33`	`gavin8or`	`haha but there is no instance of gsmd running`
`02:35.40`	`anrp`	`maybe it was looking for a break?`
`02:35.43`	`gavin8or`	`How to I kick it in the pants`
`02:35.50`	`anrp`	`or maybe it was looking for something to synchronize its serial speed against`
`02:36.12`	`anrp`	`may be that you need to send it a couple of commands before it responds`
`02:36.15`	`anrp`	`if you're poking it by hand`
`02:36.35`	`gavin8or`	`It's responding find now`
`02:36.51`	`gavin8or`	`But do I need to have gsmd running before I issue the AT commands to register with the network?`
`02:37.10`	`anrp`	`you shouldn't poke it with cu/printf/whatever if gsmd is running`
`02:37.20`	`anrp`	`use libgsmd-tool iirc`
`02:37.53`	`anrp`	`and you should let gsmd do the poking because that's what's supposed to be controlling the modem in the end`
`02:39.00`	`gavin8or`	`ahh I started gsmd up`
`02:39.12`	`gavin8or`	`gsmd -d -F -s 115200 -p /dev/ttySAC0`
`02:39.22`	`gavin8or`	`but it issued an ATE01 command`
`02:39.30`	`gavin8or`	`Do I have to re-issue ATE1?`
`02:39.41`	`anrp`	`01 should be interpreted as 1 ....`
`02:39.44`	`anrp`	`give it a bogus command`
`02:39.50`	`*** join/#openmoko bja (n=bja@c83-250-170-184.bredband.comhem.se)`
`02:40.13`	`gavin8or`	`AT+BOGUS`
`02:40.13`	`gavin8or`	`EXT: I`
`02:40.13`	`gavin8or`	`ERROR`
`02:40.16`	`gavin8or`	`haha`
`02:40.25`	`anrp`	`that would qualify`
`02:40.39`	`gavin8or`	`Hey what the heck is the PIN number? I've never used CellularOne before and I'm kinda clueless`
`02:40.53`	`ckuethe`	`you can pin protect your sim card`
`02:41.01`	`gavin8or`	`There are four 5-digit numbers on the back of the SIM card which I copied out before I installed it`
`02:41.15`	`ckuethe`	`those are your card's serial number`
`02:41.28`	`gavin8or`	`So I don't need to enter the CPIN command?`
`02:41.34`	`ckuethe`	`probably not`
`02:41.39`	`gavin8or`	`Can I just try AT+COPS now?`
`02:41.44`	`ckuethe`	`can't hurt`
`02:41.59`	`ckuethe`	`the worst that'll happens is you get "ERROR"`
`02:42.01`	`gavin8or`	`AT+COPS`
`02:42.01`	`gavin8or`	`ERROR`
`02:42.13`	`ckuethe`	`AT+COPS=?`
`02:43.24`	`gavin8or`	`ERROR`
`02:43.39`	`gavin8or`	`gsmd keeps on dying on me :(`
`02:44.11`	`ckuethe`	`AT+COPS?`
`02:44.11`	`ckuethe`	`+COPS: 0,0,"ROGERS"`
`02:44.11`	`ckuethe`	`OK`
`02:44.51`	`ckuethe`	`go look at the gsm page i linked, and download the PDFs that describe the various AT commands you could use... lotsa fun reading there`
`02:45.26`	`gavin8or`	`OK`
`02:45.26`	`gavin8or`	`AT+COPS?`
`02:45.26`	`gavin8or`	`+COPS: 0`
`02:45.31`	`gavin8or`	`You're Canadian eh?`
`02:45.43`	`ckuethe`	`yep`
`02:45.45`	`ckuethe`	`at+CREG?`
`02:45.45`	`ckuethe`	`+CREG: 0,1`
`02:45.45`	`ckuethe`	`OK`
`02:45.54`	`anrp`	`canadia~`
`02:46.16`	`ckuethe`	`bow before your new canadian overlords, eh?`
`02:46.16`	`gavin8or`	`haha I'm a VERY patriotic ex-pat`
`02:46.48`	`gavin8or`	`Sadly I have 1 choice, CellOne and they don't have the deals that I used to get with rogers 8 years ago`
`02:47.44`	`ckuethe`	`i a suggestion for the cellular industry's new theme song...`
`02:47.49`	`ckuethe`	`REM - Everybody Hurts`
`02:49.25`	`gavin8or`	`haha`
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`02:52.38`	`gavin8or`	`R`
`02:52.38`	`gavin8or`	`# # Register`
`02:52.38`	`gavin8or`	`ERROR reding from gsm_fd`
`02:52.47`	`gavin8or`	`hrm that's from libgsm-tool`
`02:54.35`	`gavin8or`	`Hey I got it working!`
`02:54.37`	`gavin8or`	`EVENT: Netreg registration denied`
`02:54.43`	`gavin8or`	`Almost`
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`03:00.58`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Sydney]] [[User:Brettb]]`
`03:03.28`	`gavin8or`	`What's the best way to try to register the phone?`
`03:03.37`	`gavin8or`	`with libgsmd-tool?`
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`03:12.47`	`dotmef`	`gavin8or: that's how I've been doing it`
`03:13.04`	`dotmef`	`I use the -m shell option`
`03:15.24`	`mrface`	`anybody played with scummvm yet? my mouse pointer is way off in the game and it makes it difficult to do anything`
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`03:53.48`	`sagacis`	`Morning anyone?`
`03:55.37`	`aloril`	`morning sagacis`
`03:56.15`	`daMaestro`	`evening here ;-)`
`03:56.24`	`daMaestro`	`but anywho, moin`
`03:57.52`	`anrp`	`midnight _~`
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`03:58.45`	`sagacis`	`Well, nearly midnight here, but morning nonetheless`
`03:58.52`	`gavin8or`	`Any ideas why I'm getting EVENT: Netreg registration denied with libgsm-tool?`
`03:58.53`	`sagacis`	`I built a new image today`
`03:58.56`	`sagacis`	`flashing now.`
`03:59.14`	`sagacis`	`gavin8or: Is your simcard registered with the provider?`
`03:59.27`	`sagacis`	`s/registered/activated/`
`03:59.28`	`gavin8or`	`Pretty sure it worked with the free phone they gave me`
`03:59.34`	`jaebird`	`ugt?`
`03:59.36`	`sagacis`	`Is it a 3G card?`
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`03:59.50`	`gavin8or`	`No`
`03:59.55`	`jaebird`	`~ugt`
`03:59.56`	`apt`	`well, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html`
`04:00.04`	`sagacis`	`Oh, thanks for the clarity`
`04:00.16`	`jaebird`	`well...i'm off to bed now :)`
`04:00.21`	`gavin8or`	`Just a regular SIM card I got from CellOne for the prepaid deal`
`04:00.40`	`jaebird`	`i had to re-solder my mouse, after pully the cord out!`
`04:00.53`	`sagacis`	`jaebird, you should buy a new computer`
`04:00.58`	`anrp`	`there's a simpler solution to that that involves a blowtorch`
`04:01.03`	`jaebird`	`:)`
`04:01.20`	`jaebird`	`but i like my mouse`
`04:01.29`	`jaebird`	`it is paid for!`
`04:01.41`	`anrp`	`terminal doesn't need a mouse!`
`04:01.51`	`gavin8or`	`Haha what's a mouse?`
`04:01.59`	`anrp`	`neo doesn't have a mouse!`
`04:02.06`	`gavin8or`	`*alt tab alt tab :)`
`04:03.03`	`sagacis`	`What's the wiki page for sim cards supported?`
`04:03.25`	`jaebird`	`sagacis: joking?`
`04:03.43`	`jaebird`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT`
`04:04.21`	`jaebird`	`night all`
`04:04.59`	`gavin8or`	`Hmm for some reason I have to turn the gsm device off and then on again while cu is running in order to see the AT-Command Interpreter ready`
`04:05.39`	`sagacis`	`gavin8or: I've been having problems running cu with the modem in the latest builds`
`04:05.46`	`sagacis`	`I just updated to see if it's any better`
`04:06.11`	`gavin8or`	`ahh ok`
`04:08.10`	`sagacis`	`Hey, sound is back today`
`04:09.17`	`sagacis`	`Hey, my gsm icon works!`
`04:09.22`	`sagacis`	`I wonder if I can make a call...`
`04:09.28`	`anrp`	`don't push your luck D:`
`04:11.39`	`gavin8or`	`That page about AT&T doesn't apply to current CellOne cards yet does it?`
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`04:18.42`	`sagacis`	`I wonder who survived`
`04:18.42`	`sagacis`	`netburst`
`04:18.42`	`Vndmtrx`	`HAuahau`
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`04:18.49`	`*** join/#openmoko roh (n=roh@yamato.hyte.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
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`04:18.52`	`*** join/#openmoko fish_ (n=fish@freigeist.org)`
`04:18.52`	`*** join/#openmoko Ganneff (i=joerg@freenode/staff/debian.ganneff)`
`04:18.52`	`gavin8or`	`haha woah`
`04:18.53`	`*** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@dslb-088-073-101-020.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`04:19.59`	`gavin8or`	`AT commands are AWESOME`
`04:20.30`	`sagacis`	`Got it?`
`04:21.14`	`gavin8or`	`I'm reading the CellOne info off of the card`
`04:21.18`	`gavin8or`	`Like the phone number and stuff :)`
`04:21.21`	`gavin8or`	`AT+WS46=?`
`04:21.21`	`gavin8or`	`+WS46: (12)`
`04:21.29`	`gavin8or`	`What does that do exactly?`
`04:22.25`	`anrp`	`AT+<something>=? is a query`
`04:22.40`	`anrp`	`asking the modem "what can i set <somethign> to"`
`04:23.05`	`anrp`	`AT+<somethign>? is asking what it currently is`
`04:23.20`	`anrp`	`AT+<something>=... sets`
`04:24.05`	`gavin8or`	`Ok so`
`04:24.07`	`gavin8or`	`AT+CREG=?`
`04:24.07`	`gavin8or`	`+CREG: (0-2)`
`04:24.16`	`gavin8or`	`Means CREG can be a number 0-2?`
`04:24.23`	`anrp`	`yes`
`04:24.33`	`gavin8or`	`and`
`04:24.34`	`gavin8or`	`AT+CREG?`
`04:24.34`	`gavin8or`	`+CREG: 0,3`
`04:24.39`	`gavin8or`	`Means it's 0?`
`04:24.44`	`anrp`	`er..`
`04:24.44`	`gavin8or`	`Which means I'm not registered?`
`04:24.55`	`anrp`	`that i'm not 100% sure of`
`04:25.09`	`anrp`	`don't know numeric meanings -> look at ts07.05 or ts07.10`
`04:25.44`	`anrp`	`s/07.10/07.07/`
`04:26.03`	`gavin8or`	`What is ts07.05?`
`04:26.13`	`anrp`	`a standard`
`04:27.07`	`gavin8or`	`Ok`
`04:27.19`	`gavin8or`	`Any idea why AT+COPS=? is giving me error?`
`04:27.48`	`gavin8or`	`I can read the card just fine, it even told me my phone number (same as what the nice lady said!)`
`04:27.59`	`anrp`	`does it work in another phone?`
`04:28.03`	`gavin8or`	`I should have good signal`
`04:28.10`	`gavin8or`	`Yes it does work in another phone`
`04:28.56`	`anrp`	`mm`
`04:29.33`	`gavin8or`	`Right now COPS: 0`
`04:29.42`	`*** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net)`
`04:29.46`	`gavin8or`	`And it doesn't even hesitate to give the error`
`04:29.56`	`anrp`	`AT+CREG=1`
`04:29.57`	`anrp`	`?`
`04:33.03`	`sagacis`	`Ok, I submitted a handset.state patch on bug 681`
`04:34.04`	`gavin8or`	`AT+CREG=1 worked`
`04:34.32`	`gavin8or`	`It says AT+CREG: 1,3 now`
`04:34.46`	`anrp`	`shouldn't gsmd be doing this? ~_~`
`04:35.40`	`gavin8or`	`It failed`
`04:35.44`	`gavin8or`	`So I'm doing it now haha`
`04:36.24`	`*** join/#openmoko Weteor_ (n=Weteor@dslb-088-073-124-224.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`04:36.49`	`*** join/#openmoko anthony__ (n=anthony@74-61-253-3.vis.clearwire-dns.net)`
`04:38.11`	`sagacis`	`anybody have any luck with a BT headset?`
`04:39.08`	`gavin8or`	`Oh libgsmd-tool shell worked this time!`
`04:39.17`	`gavin8or`	`At least the Register command didn't say it failed`
`04:39.21`	`gavin8or`	`It didn't say it worked`
`04:39.32`	`gavin8or`	`And now it says`
`04:39.49`	`gavin8or`	`EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN`
`04:39.49`	`gavin8or`	`EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: REJECT`
`04:40.42`	`sagacis`	`Your sim card seems to be being rejected like it's unregistered`
`04:41.09`	`gavin8or`	`so should the shell return something saying it's registered?`
`04:41.18`	`gavin8or`	`I just says`
`04:41.34`	`gavin8or`	`R`
`04:41.34`	`gavin8or`	`# Register`
`04:43.01`	`mrface`	`so um... don't take the battery out with the usb cable still plugged in...`
`04:43.08`	`mrface`	`that was scary`
`04:43.13`	`anrp`	`yeah`
`04:43.16`	`anrp`	`it makes a freaky noise`
`04:43.21`	`anrp`	`for about 20 sec or so`
`04:43.24`	`anrp`	`sometimes`
`04:43.34`	`mrface`	`omg, I thought I killed it`
`04:43.37`	`anrp`	`probably the regulators going nuts`
`04:43.47`	`mrface`	`do you think it damages the unit?`
`04:43.48`	`gavin8or`	`Hmm that didn't happen to me`
`04:43.57`	`anrp`	`probably not immediately`
`04:44.00`	`anrp`	`don't keep doing it though`
`04:44.04`	`gavin8or`	`It just lost power (which is bad)`
`04:44.05`	`anrp`	`it's not supposed to do that D:`
`04:44.08`	`mrface`	`I certainly won't`
`04:44.24`	`gavin8or`	RSTR=`NO CARRIER' does that mean I'm not registered?
`04:44.28`	`mrface`	`yeah, I hope that's fixed for the consumer version`
`04:44.35`	`anrp`	`no carrier is the response from a failed call`
`04:44.39`	`ckuethe`	`555-1212 = data call`
`04:44.46`	`ckuethe`	`555-1212; = voice call`
`04:45.02`	`ckuethe`	`spelling and punctuation matters...`
`04:45.29`	`gavin8or`	`D7153246846;`
`04:45.29`	`gavin8or`	`# Dial 7153246846;`
`04:45.29`	`gavin8or`	RSTR=`ERROR'
`04:45.43`	`gavin8or`	`I think I've got the spelling and punctuation right :)`
`04:46.21`	`ckuethe`	`and what happens when you use the shell`
`04:46.31`	`ckuethe`	`ATD7153246846;`
`04:47.19`	`gavin8or`	`you mean the libgsmd-tool -m shell ? that one?`
`04:47.23`	`anrp`	`i'd bet its the same`
`04:47.28`	`anrp`	`atcmd`
`04:47.47`	`gavin8or`	`atcmd?`
`04:48.15`	`gavin8or`	`Ahhh`
`04:48.21`	`gavin8or`	`Ok yeah I tried that too`
`04:48.22`	`ckuethe`	`some method that allows you to directly issue AT commands...`
`04:48.30`	`gavin8or`	`ATD7153246846;`
`04:48.30`	`gavin8or`	STR=`ATD7153246846;'
`04:48.30`	`gavin8or`	`EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN`
`04:48.31`	`gavin8or`	`EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: REJECT`
`04:49.11`	`anrp`	`j/k`
`04:49.35`	`gavin8or`	`haha It's my home phone and I wouldn't really care as long as you can speak french or english`
`04:50.29`	`daMaestro`	`gavin8or, have you tried with the country code?`
`04:50.34`	`*** part/#openmoko mrface (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`04:50.40`	`daMaestro`	`ATD17153246846; (i'm assuming)`
`04:51.31`	`*** join/#openmoko Weteor_ (n=Weteor@dslb-088-073-124-224.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`04:51.58`	`sagacis`	`strange`
`04:52.29`	`sagacis`	`I connected via gprs and typed "ping nobody". Nobody responded in ~524ms average.`
`04:52.51`	`daMaestro`	`wow`
`04:52.57`	`daMaestro`	`nslookup nobody`
`04:52.57`	`ckuethe`	`so something in your dns resolution path is called "nobody"`
`04:53.11`	`sagacis`	`I guess. It's not on the device, and it's not on my system here at home.`
`04:53.22`	`gavin8or`	`haha`
`04:53.29`	`anrp`	`nobody + search line in /etc/resolv.conf`
`04:53.31`	`sagacis`	`I'm using opendns on the pone`
`04:53.36`	`sagacis`	`phone`
`04:53.42`	`anrp`	`pony? D:`
`04:54.00`	`anrp`	`you miswrote, and i misread. it all works out!`
`04:54.11`	`sagacis`	`208.69.32.130 is the address. I just did it again.`
`04:54.23`	`*** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@71-35-72-17.phnx.qwest.net)`
`04:54.28`	`anrp`	`130.32.69.208.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN PTR nxdomain.guide.opendns.com.`
`04:54.31`	`daMaestro`	`;; ANSWER SECTION:`
`04:54.31`	`daMaestro`	`130.32.69.208.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN PTR nxdomain.guide.opendns.com.`
`04:54.36`	`daMaestro`	`anrp, too quick`
`04:54.51`	`sagacis`	`too funny`
`04:54.57`	`anrp`	`so, they mean there's nothing there`
`04:54.59`	`sagacis`	`OK, so no web browser at all installed?`
`04:55.07`	`anrp`	`that's actually something you can set up if you have an account with opendns`
`04:55.14`	`daMaestro`	`well, there was not on the OM2007.2 image i was using`
`04:55.17`	`anrp`	`to return an actual nxdomain instead of that bogus one`
`04:55.24`	`sagacis`	`Yup, works for everything....`
`04:55.27`	`daMaestro`	`i'm thinking about flashing my device again now while i wait for some updates and builds to finish`
`04:55.43`	`anrp`	`i think you can get a free opendns account`
`04:55.44`	`sagacis`	`I flashed it with today's build. It's better.`
`04:55.52`	`anrp`	`i have no idea, i just use 8 numbers i memorized years ago`
`04:56.05`	`sagacis`	`anrp, I did just that`
`04:56.41`	`sagacis`	`OK, so where's this famous webkit browser?`
`04:57.47`	`daMaestro`	`sagacis, 20070817?`
`04:58.19`	`sagacis`	`daMaestro: I made a build myself. It came out as 20070818. With today's commits`
`04:58.34`	`daMaestro`	`sagacis, hmm.. so it's actually building again.`
`04:58.38`	`sagacis`	`daMaestro: it depends on whenthat build was started`
`04:58.50`	`*** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219)`
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`05:03.10`	`anthony__`	`how do i download ipkg or where and what am i supposed to download... im very confsued by their website :( (http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Ipkg (think thats the correct site)`
`05:04.31`	`*** join/#openmoko mrface (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`05:05.05`	`mrface`	`is there an easy way for me to just disable incoming calls, since I can't answer them with the dialer without a crash?`
`05:05.35`	`ckuethe`	`yes, the power switch`
`05:05.41`	`ckuethe`	`or, killall gsmd`
`05:06.13`	`mrface`	`the power switch will kill that alert, but not the phone?`
`05:06.18`	`ckuethe`	`no.`
`05:06.32`	`ckuethe`	`i'm being slightly sarcastic.`
`05:06.37`	`mrface`	`oh, haha`
`05:06.47`	`mrface`	`forgot to turn on my detector`
`05:07.14`	`ckuethe`	`i don't mind buying a broken $whatever, so long as i know it broken before i buy it and there's a reasonable chance it's fixable`
`05:07.24`	`ckuethe`	`viz. gsmd`
`05:07.26`	`mrface`	`agreed`
`05:07.38`	`ckuethe`	`so it crashes, but it's fixable... and i like bug squashing`
`05:07.58`	`mrface`	`yes, I just hoped there might be a temporary workaround`
`05:08.45`	`ckuethe`	`maybe kill off gsmd`
`05:08.54`	`mrface`	`hehe, yeah`
`05:09.38`	`mrface`	`I wouldn't actually be attempting to use the neo as a phone atm, except that I lost my damn phone in a drunken stupor last week`
`05:10.14`	`mrface`	`so now, I need to get a temporary replacement until the neo is good and ready... or just deal`
`05:10.16`	`ckuethe`	`i do believe that's what's know as a vested interest...`
`05:13.49`	`anthony__`	`can someone point me to where i can figure out modules and how to transfer them to the neo`
`05:14.16`	`mrface`	`anthony__: if you're using a prebuilt rootfs, it already contains the modules`
`05:14.39`	`anthony__`	`oh ok, thank you very much`
`05:14.53`	`anthony__`	`so i shouldnt have to use modules at all`
`05:14.55`	`*** join/#openmoko nimron2 (n=Weteor@dslb-088-073-112-150.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`05:14.58`	`mrface`	`anthony__: you may have to nand clean erase rootfs first`
`05:15.01`	`mrface`	`anthony__: yes`
`05:15.14`	`anthony__`	`cool thanks`
`05:15.25`	`mrface`	`no problem`
`05:25.08`	`*** join/#openmoko Jeff1f (i=HydraIRC@adsl-75-40-232-86.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net)`
`05:25.51`	`*** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177561486.dsl.bell.ca)`
`05:27.21`	`blindcoder`	`moin`
`05:27.29`	`mrface`	`moin moin`
`05:27.58`	`sagacis`	`mediawiki`
`05:28.07`	`sagacis`	`oh, sorry. wrong topic. moin moin moin`
`05:28.16`	`mrface`	`ha`
`05:29.44`	`*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)`
`05:32.11`	`anthony__`	`uhh christ, now im having a hard time doing the whole nand clean erase rootfs`
`05:32.26`	`mrface`	`what's the problem?`
`05:32.38`	`anthony__`	`anthony@anthony-desktop:~$ cu -l /dev/ttyACM0`
`05:32.38`	`anthony__`	`Connected.`
`05:32.38`	`anthony__`	`nand erase clean rootfs`
`05:32.54`	`anthony__`	`thats all and nothing else happens`
`05:33.15`	`anthony__`	`im not good at linux at all by the way`
`05:33.20`	`sagacis`	`"nand erase rootfs" Does the "clean" do something?`
`05:33.34`	`daMaestro`	`you should get a prompt`
`05:33.34`	`mrface`	`I believe both words are necessary`
`05:33.39`	`daMaestro`	`you need to use cu -l as root`
`05:34.01`	`anthony__`	`oh ok i think i know what you are talking about`
`05:34.25`	`sagacis`	`Hmm... I don't use both words Never used the clean....`
`05:35.27`	`*** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo)`
`05:35.29`	`mrface`	`sagacis: I'm just going off what the wiki says`
`05:35.56`	`daMaestro`	`well it lists the clean as [clean] so i think it is optional`
`05:36.00`	`daMaestro`	`i use it`
`05:36.32`	`anthony__`	`so what should i type in`
`05:36.38`	`anthony__`	`im way confused now`
`05:36.50`	`mrface`	`ahh`
`05:37.24`	`anthony__`	`anthony@anthony-desktop:~$ cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 =this is right, correct?`
`05:37.34`	`daMaestro`	`yes, but you need to do that as root, afaik`
`05:37.38`	`sagacis`	`Nope`
`05:37.42`	`sagacis`	`I don't do it as root.`
`05:37.48`	`sagacis`	`Maybe`
`05:37.51`	`anthony__`	`im using ubuntu`
`05:38.04`	`sagacis`	`anthony__: "sudo cu -l /dev/ttyACM0"`
`05:38.08`	`daMaestro`	`so you chown uucp.uucp /dev/ttyACM0`
`05:38.12`	`daMaestro`	`?`
`05:38.20`	`sagacis`	`Hmm.... Yes.`
`05:38.33`	`sagacis`	`That was a step on the wiki page, now that I recall`
`05:38.44`	`anthony__`	`anthony@anthony-desktop:~$ sudo cu -l /dev/ttyACM`
`05:38.45`	`anthony__`	`cu: open (/dev/ttyACM): No such file or directory`
`05:38.45`	`anthony__`	`cu: /dev/ttyACM: Line in use`
`05:39.15`	`sagacis`	`you forgot the "0"`
`05:39.30`	`anthony__`	`anthony@anthony-desktop:~$ sudo cu -l /dev/ttyACM0`
`05:39.30`	`anthony__`	`cu: open (/dev/ttyACM0): Permission denied`
`05:39.30`	`anthony__`	`cu: /dev/ttyACM0: Line in use`
`05:39.30`	`anthony__`	`anthony@anthony-desktop:~$`
`05:39.42`	`sagacis`	`daMaestro: He got "connected" the first time, so it should have worked OK`
`05:40.05`	`sagacis`	`anthony__: type "ifconfig" and look for usb0. Make sure it is there and "UP"`
`05:40.37`	`*** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com)`
`05:40.45`	`*** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net)`
`05:41.25`	`anthony__`	`nope not there`
`05:42.58`	`sagacis`	`OK, type "sudo ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0"`
`05:43.16`	`sagacis`	`That was on a wiki page somewhere, too.... USB networking or something (goes off to look....)`
`05:43.43`	`dotmef`	`it says "Line in use". could it be a left-over process?`
`05:44.02`	`dotmef`	`try "fuser /dev/ttyACM0"`
`05:44.04`	`sagacis`	`aha- http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking`
`05:45.01`	`sagacis`	`dotmef, he doesn't have the usb0 interface, so the /dev/ttyACM0 isn't created yet`
`05:45.15`	`ckuethe`	`urrr?`
`05:45.20`	`sagacis`	`oh, no`
`05:45.21`	`sagacis`	`Sorry.`
`05:45.28`	`ckuethe`	`i think the tty and net interfaces are exclusive`
`05:45.29`	`sagacis`	`It's late. I'm crazy.`
`05:45.47`	`anthony__`	`anthony@anthony-desktop:~$ sudo ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0`
`05:45.47`	`anthony__`	`SIOCSIFADDR: No such device`
`05:45.47`	`anthony__`	`usb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device`
`05:45.47`	`anthony__`	`SIOCSIFNETMASK: No such device`
`05:45.48`	`sagacis`	`maybe I'll go back to my compiling now.....`
`05:46.13`	`ckuethe`	`looks like a module is missing`
`05:46.33`	`ckuethe`	`and i'm too lazy to put my neo back together and tell you what all you should have loaded`
`05:46.37`	`mrface`	`anthony__: maybe unplug and plug back in?`
`05:46.44`	`sagacis`	`lsmod \| grep usbnet`
`05:47.10`	`anthony__`	`mr face ha ive tried trust me`
`05:47.45`	`mrface`	`anthony__: reboot? (neo)`
`05:48.04`	`ckuethe`	`are you plugging into a hub?`
`05:48.24`	`ckuethe`	`i've got a lame usb hub that seems to freak out every time i plug in a device`
`05:48.34`	`anthony__`	`neo should be in set console to usb right`
`05:48.49`	`mrface`	`you don't need to select anything there`
`05:49.04`	`anthony__`	`just pluged right into computer (with cord that came with the phone)`
`05:50.04`	`anthony__`	`anthony@anthony-desktop:~$ cu -l /dev/ttyACM0Connected.`
`05:50.08`	`anthony__`	`In: usbtty`
`05:50.12`	`anthony__`	`Out: usbtty`
`05:50.16`	`anthony__`	`Err: usbtty`
`05:50.20`	`anthony__`	`GTA01Bv4 # DEVICE_CONFIGURED: 1`
`05:50.24`	`anthony__`	`Enabling automatic fast charge`
`05:50.24`	`anthony__`	`nand erase clean rootfs`
`05:50.24`	`anthony__`	`NAND erase: device 0 offset 0x2e4000, size 0x3d1c000`
`05:50.24`	`anthony__`	`OK`
`05:50.24`	`anthony__`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:50.25`	`anthony__`	`now what?`
`05:50.32`	`mrface`	`you did it`
`05:50.34`	`anthony__`	`or is it done`
`05:50.35`	`anthony__`	`yay`
`05:50.37`	`mrface`	`haha`
`05:50.40`	`dotmef`	`w00t`
`05:50.44`	`mrface`	`now ~. to exit`
`05:50.48`	`anthony__`	`thank you so much everyone that helped`
`05:51.04`	`mrface`	`no problem`
`05:51.28`	`anthony__`	`so now i just transfer another rootfs and it should semi work`
`05:51.45`	`mrface`	`yes, as long as you flash a matching kernel`
`05:52.02`	`mrface`	`you might as well erase the kernel while you're at the prompt`
`05:52.09`	`mrface`	`unless you already exited`
`05:52.22`	`anthony__`	`think so, someone told me they had a working one so i downloaded those`
`05:52.36`	`anthony__`	`yeah it powered down on its own`
`05:53.00`	`mrface`	`ahh.. get to flashing then`
`05:53.07`	`anthony__`	`sweet`
`05:53.10`	`anthony__`	`thank you`
`05:53.16`	`mrface`	`:)`
`05:53.23`	`*** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@71-35-72-17.phnx.qwest.net)`
`05:59.08`	`*** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k963.webspeed.dk)`
`06:04.13`	`*** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-44-42.dialup.xtra.co.nz)`
`06:05.10`	`*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`06:09.56`	`*** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2220-ipbf2608marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)`
`06:14.37`	`daMaestro`	`sagacis, is the "turn off whatever is eating my battery" bug fixed in the current build?`
`06:14.44`	`daMaestro`	`[on shutdown]`
`06:15.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 714 has been created by cywang.eda(AT)gmail.com`
`06:15.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * Machine=qemuarm is arm versatile`
`06:15.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=714`
`06:16.15`	`daMaestro`	`LOL`
`06:16.26`	`daMaestro`	`the "welcome" sound surprised me`
`06:17.35`	`sagacis`	`daMaestro: Nope`
`06:17.43`	`daMaestro`	`hmm and gsmd likes to not start on boot still`
`06:17.58`	`sagacis`	`daMaestro: It did for me. I was excited`
`06:18.20`	`sagacis`	`I was even able to gprs`
`06:18.36`	`sagacis`	`although that didnt' help much since I don't have a web browser`
`06:18.44`	`*** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171)`
`06:18.45`	`sagacis`	`I"m bitbaking gpe-mini-browser now`
`06:18.51`	`sagacis`	`dillo2 didn't build`
`06:18.59`	`daMaestro`	`wow.. it actually shutdown`
`06:19.01`	`daMaestro`	`:-D`
`06:19.09`	`sagacis`	`I like the new power management menu`
`06:19.20`	`sagacis`	`I was running with full PM earlier today.`
`06:19.37`	`sagacis`	`that wasn't good when it decided I was boring and suspended. Couldn't recover. Had to pop out battery`
`06:20.00`	`daMaestro`	`meh, it's still coming along`
`06:20.02`	`daMaestro`	`very nicely`
`06:20.20`	`sagacis`	`Also, I noticed if I use the application list as a category, it always pops up calculator. I have to use "All" applications`
`06:20.23`	`sagacis`	`Yes it it.`
`06:20.29`	`sagacis`	`I can make and receive calls.`
`06:20.44`	`sagacis`	`When I called myself, the neo rang!`
`06:20.52`	`daMaestro`	`is the alsa mixer stuff automated?`
`06:20.56`	`daMaestro`	`oh wow! we have a ring now!`
`06:21.05`	`sagacis`	`However, I couldn't talk, so I restored the handset stuff and then I couldn't ring....`
`06:21.13`	`sagacis`	`But, the neo vibed instead!`
`06:24.17`	`sagacis`	`I'd like to have the feedreader work, too`
`06:30.33`	`*** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net)`
`06:30.40`	`Kliment`	`sagacis: what setup are you using?`
`06:30.43`	`sagacis`	`darn, gpe browser didnt' compile out of the box either`
`06:30.53`	`sagacis`	`Kliment: not sure what you are asking?`
`06:30.59`	`Kliment`	`which kernel/rootfs?`
`06:31.09`	`sagacis`	`homebrew, built tonight`
`06:31.14`	`sagacis`	`using the alpha makefile`
`06:31.37`	`Kliment`	`on mine, it makes/receives one call from the gui`
`06:31.46`	`Kliment`	`and as many as I want from command line`
`06:32.00`	`*** join/#openmoko [ryd] (n=jens@nons.de)`
`06:32.01`	`Kliment`	`gsmd fails to start up`
`06:32.03`	`sagacis`	`I did two calls only`
`06:32.04`	`daMaestro`	`Kliment, what build are you using?`
`06:32.56`	`daMaestro`	`sagacis, what makefile?`
`06:32.57`	`*** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`06:33.27`	`Linux_Galore`	`ello ello moko nuts`
`06:33.53`	`Kliment`	`2007.2, with this image http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Phase_1_Software_Testing#20070813_with_kernel_2.6.21.5-r2`
`06:34.00`	`Kliment`	`don't have a buildenv yet`
`06:34.11`	`sagacis`	`hm.... let me see`
`06:34.47`	`daMaestro`	`yeah, those are the images i just flashed`
`06:34.51`	`Linux_Galore`	`all together now sing the moko song "Im a little moko nut as free as can be, Stephen can go shove his phone were no one can see"`
`06:34.55`	`daMaestro`	`(to my device)`
`06:35.03`	`Linux_Galore`	`:-P`
`06:36.06`	`dotmef`	`:D`
`06:36.08`	`Kliment`	`I'll try the nightlies from last night`
`06:36.30`	`sagacis`	`Last nights is closer to what I have.`
`06:37.17`	`sagacis`	`it might be the same.`
`06:37.36`	`Kliment`	`ok, how big is your buildenv and how long does it take to build?`
`06:37.58`	`Kliment`	`I'm having a small diskspace issue here`
`06:38.08`	`Linux_Galore`	`I was listening to a podcast (NPR Tech) today and they were talking about how hard the iPhone is to use for many owners`
`06:38.33`	`Kliment`	`Linux_Galore: the neo is no easier to use at the moment`
`06:38.54`	`Kliment`	`btw we really need to implement this vibrate on touch thing`
`06:38.55`	`Linux_Galore`	`Kliment: I know but just shows even Apple are finding it hard`
`06:39.04`	`sagacis`	`To get the latest always, use http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2`
`06:39.13`	`sagacis`	`It's a symlink updated by the build`
`06:39.17`	`ckuethe`	`moral of the story ... even apple's famed human interface engineers left room for the neo to be better`
`06:39.45`	`ckuethe`	`Linux_Galore got there first...`
`06:39.46`	`sagacis`	`Kliment: Sorry I can't tell you either. My buildenv is all mucked up with other stuff`
`06:39.59`	`Kliment`	`sagacis: approximately?`
`06:40.01`	`sagacis`	`and I've never timed a build. maybe 5-8 hrs?`
`06:40.14`	`Kliment`	`ah, so it's okay for overnight`
`06:40.16`	`Kliment`	`great`
`06:40.46`	`Kliment`	`see I don't have a spare computer to build this stuff on`
`06:40.50`	`Linux_Galore`	`ckuethe: yep, were going to kicks Apples rear`
`06:40.58`	`sagacis`	`me is calculating diskusage`
`06:41.00`	`Linux_Galore`	`we are*`
`06:41.04`	`Kliment`	`thanks`
`06:41.11`	`sagacis`	`er, I mean... add a "/" to that`
`06:41.40`	`Kliment`	`I have this annoying thing when I reflash`
`06:41.49`	`ckuethe`	`we could... not sure that we will`
`06:42.00`	`Kliment`	`my computer believes that ssh has been broken`
`06:42.05`	`Kliment`	`since the host key changes`
`06:42.11`	`Kliment`	`any idea how to avoid this?`
`06:42.18`	`ckuethe`	`but the nice thing about not getting there first is that we can learn from others' mistakes`
`06:42.39`	`Kliment`	`ckuethe: thing is, we can get there first AND learn from mistakes`
`06:43.04`	`ckuethe`	`Kliment: maybe an entry in ~/.ssh_config`
`06:43.07`	`sagacis`	`Kliment: Just remove the ssh key`
`06:43.16`	`ckuethe`	`to not verify/cache host keys for 192.168.0.200`
`06:43.21`	`sagacis`	`Every kernel will create a new key, so flashing means it has to change`
`06:43.29`	`ckuethe`	`man ssh_config`
`06:43.37`	`sagacis`	`Yeah, you could do that, too....`
`06:46.09`	`sagacis`	`Kliment: 21 GB total, but I have some extra caching and a bunch of unnecessary projects`
`06:46.19`	`sagacis`	`I don't think that's typical`
`06:47.01`	`sagacis`	`7-10GB is probably about right.`
`06:47.12`	`sagacis`	`good night`
`06:47.22`	`sagacis`	`I gotta get to sleep before I drool on my keyboard`
`06:47.23`	`Linux_Galore`	`just plugged in my new wireless mouse and bingo a small applet flashed up on the desktop with the battery level, no drivers not stuffing around, eat that windows`
`06:47.38`	`Linux_Galore`	`s/not/no/`
`06:47.50`	`*** join/#openmoko phrozen77_ (n=phrozen7@unaffiliated/phrozen77)`
`06:49.36`	`Kliment`	`should I update my u-boot`
`06:49.44`	`Kliment`	`I haven't touched it since I got the phone`
`06:50.16`	`aloril`	`http://londerings.sourceforge.net/go/Neo1973/KGS_Neo1973.png`
`06:50.32`	`aloril`	`(running on PC and displaying on Neo1973, usbnet)`
`06:51.20`	`*** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com)`
`06:51.22`	`daMaestro`	`nice, that should be awesome once we can use gprs regularly`
`06:51.46`	`aloril`	`well, I hope to test it over GPRS soonish`
`06:51.58`	`Kliment`	`mmmm, kgs`
`06:52.19`	`Kliment`	`now we need to get it to vibrate when you put a stone`
`06:52.30`	`Kliment`	`for that tactile feeling`
`06:52.32`	`*** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484C614.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`06:52.48`	`*** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-248-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`06:52.54`	`aloril`	`hehe`
`06:54.25`	`Kliment`	`cgoban2 is java, right?`
`06:54.57`	`Kliment`	`can you try cross-compiling it for the neo`
`06:55.03`	`Kliment`	`with gcj`
`06:55.09`	`aloril`	`yes, but doesn't matter that much, I was running it on PC`
`06:55.30`	`aloril`	`well, KGS is not open source :-(`
`06:55.38`	`Kliment`	`no problem`
`06:56.01`	`Kliment`	`just unpack the jar and cross-compile and see if it runs`
`06:56.18`	`Kliment`	`if it does I'm sure they would be glad to distribute one more client version`
`06:56.24`	`aloril`	`ah, you can crosscompile fro bytecode? interesting`
`06:56.35`	`Kliment`	`of course you can`
`06:56.36`	`aloril`	`s:from:from:`
`06:56.49`	`Kliment`	`you can also decompile bytecode`
`06:57.07`	`aloril`	`what about running jar directly (once java is available for Neo1973)`
`06:57.19`	`*** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3BD9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`06:57.20`	`Kliment`	`that would be very nice`
`06:57.28`	`Kliment`	`and I have much interest in getting that to work`
`06:59.20`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`06:59.27`	`Kliment`	`aloril: I don't know if anyone is working on it, I intend to make it work`
`06:59.32`	`*** join/#openmoko jott_ (n=j@unaffiliated/jott)`
`07:00.06`	`aloril`	`there have been talks in openmoko-devel list`
`07:00.38`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Luyindianhua]] [[Xieji]] [[Xiyi]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Sydney]] [[SH1]] [[Battery]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem]]`
`07:01.09`	`Kliment`	`i've read`
`07:01.35`	`*** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo76@host81-132-55-221.range81-132.btcentralplus.com)`
`07:02.55`	`*** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz)`
`07:03.24`	`aloril`	`btw.. 19x19 is playable too`
`07:03.56`	`ScaredyCat`	`feck`
`07:04.03`	`Kliment`	`want to try the gcj approach?`
`07:04.07`	`Kliment`	`what is it, ScaredyCat?`
`07:04.23`	`ScaredyCat`	`it's the -j4 that screws up the build`
`07:04.44`	`ScaredyCat`	`I just let it run last night without it and it ran perfectly`
`07:05.22`	`ScaredyCat`	`and no rm_work either...`
`07:05.30`	`ScaredyCat`	`so it uses 19GB`
`07:08.40`	`daMaestro`	`yeah, i just fired off a fresh build with the mastermakefile`
`07:08.50`	`ScaredyCat`	`so I just wasted 3 days trying to find that`
`07:08.53`	`daMaestro`	`maybe it will finish by lunch tomorrow`
`07:09.27`	`*** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com)`
`07:09.28`	`ScaredyCat`	`I also noticed I was getting some corrupt downloads (md5sum not matching)`
`07:10.04`	`ScaredyCat`	`I guess there were some i/o issues :/`
`07:10.21`	`daMaestro`	`19GB now?`
`07:10.29`	`daMaestro`	`hmm i only have 14GB avail for the build dir`
`07:10.50`	`Kliment`	`btw how do I get the usable keyboard?`
`07:11.18`	`Kliment`	`ah ok found it`
`07:12.31`	`*** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@adsl-d221.84-47-21.t-com.sk)`
`07:12.32`	`ScaredyCat`	`daMaestro: yeah, apparently rm_work is broken or something..`
`07:12.42`	`ScaredyCat`	`you can actually manually do it...`
`07:13.02`	`daMaestro`	`hmm, so should i just stop this build if i don't have ~20GB free?`
`07:13.04`	`ScaredyCat`	`but the act of doing it will try to do the build tooo`
`07:13.06`	`daMaestro`	`this is for OM2007.2?`
`07:13.26`	`ScaredyCat`	`lemmie get the command that you can use to force it and build too`
`07:13.27`	`ScaredyCat`	`yes`
`07:13.28`	`ScaredyCat`	`.2`
`07:13.32`	`daMaestro`	`blah`
`07:14.04`	`ScaredyCat`	`<PROTECTED>`
`07:14.39`	`daMaestro`	`i'm just using the mastermakefile`
`07:14.46`	`ScaredyCat`	`it tries to to the rm_work...but if the bits aren't built seems to want to build them`
`07:18.05`	`*** join/#openmoko zween__ (n=zween@Z5283.z.pppool.de)`
`07:18.30`	`*** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171)`
`07:21.11`	`jgm`	`ScaredyCat: you got a build now? Cool`
`07:21.25`	`*** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl)`
`07:22.26`	`ScaredyCat`	`yes...`
`07:22.48`	`*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485D19C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`07:22.49`	`ScaredyCat`	`after I turned ff the multi proc / parallel build it built fine`
`07:23.00`	`ScaredyCat`	`aside from that libxml2 fix`
`07:23.14`	`jgm`	`Odd, I was running with parallel build (but not with rm_work)`
`07:23.27`	`Kliment`	`I still can't dial from the gui`
`07:24.22`	`ScaredyCat`	`mm...`
`07:24.51`	`Kliment`	`and the first incoming call makes it ring nicely and then silence unless I restore the state manually`
`07:25.04`	`Kliment`	`then I need to turn mono down to remove the feedback`
`07:25.15`	`Kliment`	`then voice works pretty well`
`07:25.34`	`Kliment`	`then it no longer handles incoming calls`
`07:25.47`	`Kliment`	` (matchbox-panel-2:1896): CRITICAL : _moko_gsmd_connection_eventhandler: unhandled event type = 13`
`07:25.54`	`Kliment`	`I get this every time I call it`
`07:26.18`	`Kliment`	`I can answer the call from libgsmd-tool just fine`
`07:26.24`	`Kliment`	`and the dialer neveer works`
`07:26.34`	`Kliment`	`it says`
`07:26.34`	`ScaredyCat`	`is this .1 or .2 ?`
`07:26.34`	`Kliment`	(openmoko-dialer:1894): CRITICAL : dbus_g_proxy_call: assertion `!DBUS_G_PROXY_DESTROYED (proxy)' failed
`07:26.38`	`Kliment`	`.2`
`07:26.50`	`ScaredyCat`	`from what date?`
`07:26.58`	`Kliment`	`17.08`
`07:27.06`	`ScaredyCat`	`k`
`07:27.18`	`ScaredyCat`	`still not worth it then ...`
`07:42.02`	`*** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`07:49.47`	`ScaredyCat`	`muf: ping`
`07:49.56`	`ScaredyCat`	`mbuf: :/`
`07:54.18`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`07:58.58`	`pH5`	`ScaredyCat: are the neo patches for scummvm available somewhere?`
`08:03.00`	`*** join/#openmoko santacalus666 (n=Miranda@62.73.65.2)`
`08:03.34`	`*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-152-203-228.range86-152.btcentralplus.com)`
`08:03.58`	`*** join/#openmoko Dmitry_Platonov (n=hawk@clients-nat-176-81.gagarino.net)`
`08:06.04`	`*** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com)`
`08:06.21`	`*** join/#openmoko emdel (n=emdel@host83-220-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`08:09.13`	`ScaredyCat`	`pH5: http://buildhost.automated.it/scummvm`
`08:09.52`	`ScaredyCat`	`the scummvm.tar.bz2 is the modified/fixed .bb file, the compiled verisons are for .1 - just building .2 version now..`
`08:10.18`	`ScaredyCat`	`but the me .bb file is in .2 build so it's just a case of bitbake scummvm`
`08:11.56`	`ScaredyCat`	`someone broke webkit`
`08:12.23`	`*** join/#openmoko Dreaddddd (i=nofear@212.58.189.6)`
`08:13.28`	`*** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`08:14.53`	`*** join/#openmoko Saub (n=dearsaub@61.48.167.65)`
`08:15.26`	`Saub`	`大家好`
`08:15.47`	`ScaredyCat`	`dunno...`
`08:16.03`	`*** part/#openmoko Dreadddddd (i=nofear@212.58.189.6)`
`08:16.23`	`Saub`	`what`
`08:17.11`	`pH5`	`ScaredyCat: cool, thanks.`
`08:17.53`	`Saub`	`do you have NEO1973?`
`08:17.53`	`aloril`	`Saub: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)`
`08:18.37`	`aloril`	`several here as you could guess by looking at FAQ or topic`
`08:18.50`	`daMaestro`	`anyone think we might have a chance at getting something like Miro (formally Democracy player... dtv) rocking via openmoko?`
`08:20.28`	`ScaredyCat`	`daMaestro: on gta01 cpu might be an issue......`
`08:20.46`	`ScaredyCat`	`02 would probably cope,,,`
`08:21.04`	`daMaestro`	`yeah, but that is what 01 is for :-D`
`08:21.11`	`daMaestro`	`to get things "working"`
`08:21.12`	`daMaestro`	`lol`
`08:21.21`	`ScaredyCat`	`although #i can play video with no frame loss ... just in a small window...`
`08:21.36`	`daMaestro`	`really, my 01 will turn into an @ home gateway of some sorts`
`08:21.52`	`pH5`	`it's a shame that there is no yuv->rgb in hardware on the s3c2410`
`08:22.26`	`Kliment`	`now I can consistently answer calls`
`08:23.06`	`ScaredyCat`	`we just got some neuros' in ... I'm going to be in embedded heaven soon :)`
`08:23.31`	`Kliment`	`if I try to dial the dialer dies`
`08:23.39`	`*** join/#openmoko nm_ (n=nm@222.252.37.133)`
`08:23.57`	`Kliment`	`so nothing handes incoming calls until I restart it`
`08:24.12`	`ScaredyCat`	`ph5: are you running .2 ?`
`08:24.30`	`*** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl)`
`08:24.34`	`pH5`	`ScaredyCat: building, not running yet`
`08:24.52`	`ScaredyCat`	`k.. just that I have scummvm for it`
`08:25.06`	`*** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@151.72.82.136)`
`08:25.10`	`ScaredyCat`	`but you can do it yourself if your build works :)`
`08:25.19`	`Saub`	`how can i develope software with Neo Base? How to debug?`
`08:25.23`	`Kliment`	`I keep getting this when dialing from gui`
`08:25.31`	`Kliment`	`17.08`
`08:25.54`	`Kliment`	(openmoko-dialer:1923): CRITICAL **: dbus_g_proxy_call: assertion `!DBUS_G_PROXY_DESTROYED (proxy)' failed
`08:26.46`	`ScaredyCat`	`it should have gdb on it Saub...`
`08:26.59`	`ScaredyCat`	`Kliment: the dialer just isn't stable`
`08:27.41`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`08:27.52`	`pH5`	`ScaredyCat: yes, I'd like to verify the build and include those changes in OE, if that's okay.`
`08:28.30`	`ScaredyCat`	`it's not my work. I'm just hosting it... but it looks like it's already in oe`
`08:29.03`	`aloril`	`Saub: or you can first develop on PC and then test on Neo1973`
`08:29.13`	`pH5`	`heh, maybe I'm just slow.`
`08:29.31`	`Saub`	`thank you`
`08:29.53`	`ScaredyCat`	`ls ../../newBuild/openembedded/packages/scummvm/scummvm_0.9.1.bb`
`08:29.54`	`ScaredyCat`	`../../newBuild/openembedded/packages/scummvm/scummvm_0.9.1.bb`
`08:30.16`	`ScaredyCat`	`which is the new fixed one`
`08:31.40`	`Saub`	`does the neo have wifi?`
`08:32.59`	`ScaredyCat`	`the current model does not`
`08:33.10`	`ScaredyCat`	`haowever, the gta02 should have it`
`08:33.16`	`*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@217.83.162.228)`
`08:33.17`	`ScaredyCat`	`gowever`
`08:33.21`	`ScaredyCat`	`gahh`
`08:33.24`	`ScaredyCat`	`however`
`08:33.31`	`Saub`	`when could it be ready`
`08:33.40`	`ScaredyCat`	`in theory october...`
`08:33.54`	`ScaredyCat`	`most of us suspect it would be a little later`
`08:34.20`	`ScaredyCat`	`but you can still develop on the gta01 and move to the gta02`
`08:34.30`	`Saub`	`hope it come soon,heh`
`08:34.36`	`ScaredyCat`	`or you can use qemu on a pc to emulate the neo`
`08:34.51`	`*** join/#openmoko mrface (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`08:35.18`	`Saub`	`i run qemu on windows to emulate,it's slow, how about on linux?`
`08:36.22`	`*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-152-203-228.range86-152.btcentralplus.com)`
`08:37.29`	`aloril`	`wifi?`
`08:37.29`	`aloril`	`Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F`
`08:38.15`	`aloril`	`Saub: depends on machine: it can be slower or faster than real Neo1973 ;-)`
`08:38.19`	`Saub`	`when GTA02 is ready, where can i buy it? order on the web?`
`08:38.27`	`mrface`	`Saub: I think it's pretty quick on linux`
`08:38.32`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`08:38.39`	`aloril`	`see topic or faq for buy links`
`08:38.43`	`ScaredyCat`	`http://www.openmoko.com`
`08:38.51`	`mrface`	`rwhitby: does MokoMakeFile package up modules with the rootfs?`
`08:38.53`	`Saub`	`ok, try`
`08:39.22`	`ScaredyCat`	`jgm: ping`
`08:40.14`	`ScaredyCat`	`mrface: the required modules should be installed. the modules tarball is an extra, containing modules not used in the default image..`
`08:40.31`	`mrface`	`sweet`
`08:41.11`	`ScaredyCat`	`if you are getting errors with unmatched modules it means your rootfs and uImage don;t match`
`08:41.27`	`mrface`	`who said anything about errors?`
`08:41.32`	`mrface`	`I was just curious`
`08:41.42`	`ScaredyCat`	`no one, I was just making you aware, for the future`
`08:41.56`	`mrface`	`oh, well thank you :)`
`08:42.00`	`*** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com)`
`08:42.23`	`ScaredyCat`	`it's a common problem.. so good to be aware of it :)`
`08:42.30`	`*** join/#openmoko b1303s__ (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-2021f1774efb2023)`
`08:42.54`	`mrface`	`so would I spot these errors in the text that goes by during startup? or in dmesg output?`
`08:42.54`	`quinton`	`i think the screen looks a bit odd in landscape. i'm guessing it's because it's brighter in one eye, or is this something i'm imagining?`
`08:42.55`	`*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)`
`08:43.39`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes.`
`08:44.17`	`quinton`	`okay then`
`08:44.50`	`ScaredyCat`	`yes mrface... during startup... and your sd card probably wouldn't get automounted`
`08:45.17`	`mrface`	`oh yeah, that would be an obvious sign`
`08:46.39`	`*** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07CDC5.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:48.02`	`*** join/#openmoko splifff_home (n=spliffy@p54B1C286.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:51.09`	`aloril`	`btw.. you can see screen with 0 brightness, just shine bright light to screen`
`08:51.40`	`*** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de)`
`08:52.29`	`mrface`	`:D`
`08:53.47`	`ScaredyCat`	`...but oes it still boot ;)`
`08:53.50`	`ScaredyCat`	`does`
`08:53.58`	`mrface`	`yes! :)`
`08:54.01`	`ScaredyCat`	`good`
`08:54.05`	`mrface`	`and the modules are there`
`08:55.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`aloril: not really.`
`08:56.53`	`aloril`	`SpeedEvil: I accidentally set brightness to 0 yesterday and shining bright led I could vaguely see enough to use onscreen keyboard to change brigthness back to sensible value`
`08:57.06`	`aloril`	`(you see some kind of point grid too)`
`08:58.35`	`SpeedEvil`	`Hmm, I diddn't succeed in seeing it in detail.`
`08:58.51`	`aloril`	`it was in dark room`
`08:58.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`ah`
`08:59.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`you mean pressing LED to surface?`
`08:59.54`	`ScaredyCat`	`screen burn`
`09:00.17`	`aloril`	`actually, no need for dark room, no I mean 1W led flashlight`
`09:00.59`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Madrid]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[User_talk:Mathiastck]] [[User:Mathiastck]] [[Shipment_1]] [[SIM_card]]`
`09:01.59`	`tuukkah`	`i still have the problem "cu: open (/dev/ttySAC0): Permission denied" :-(`
`09:02.08`	`aloril`	`this room is reasonably bright, can't see anything on screen, but if I shine 1W led flashlight I can vaguely see (enough to change it back if needs to be)`
`09:02.57`	`*** join/#openmoko omjj (n=jubuntu@dsl-hkibras1-ff42c000-142.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`09:02.57`	`aloril`	`tuukkah: uucp rights OK in certain file? (don't recall what it was, but it was mentioned in wiki)`
`09:03.55`	`fgau`	`tuukkah: chgrp root /dev/ttyACM0`
`09:04.27`	`tuukkah`	`i don't have /dev/ttyACM0 :-(`
`09:06.03`	`*** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-212-102.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net)`
`09:06.04`	`tuukkah`	`chgrp root /dev/ttySAC0 did the trick! thanks`
`09:10.00`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu)`
`09:12.29`	`*** join/#openmoko DregNET (n=thore@c-da5be353.1464-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`09:16.37`	`*** join/#openmoko jarkkol (n=jubuntu@dsl-hkibras1-ff42c000-142.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`09:20.51`	`Ghiottone`	`when compiling package openmoko-libs it hangs sayng that common/linux_list.h is not found. any solution?`
`09:23.24`	`*** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org)`
`09:24.09`	`*** join/#openmoko ufo76_ (n=ufo76@host81-155-111-240.range81-155.btcentralplus.com)`
`09:25.18`	`*** join/#openmoko cibomahto (n=metsmatt@ip215.coronado-crossing.phx.ygnition.net)`
`09:25.41`	`*** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`09:27.34`	`*** join/#openmoko jroman (n=jroman@163.Red-83-50-95.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`09:33.32`	`tuukkah`	`can i somehow exit cu?`
`09:33.43`	`*** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu)`
`09:34.33`	`ScaredyCat`	`use ~~.`
`09:34.41`	`Linux_Galore`	`hmm games on the OM http://www.flickr.com/photos/pitcherfamily/11550082`
`09:35.39`	`ScaredyCat`	`your link is bad`
`09:35.55`	`quinton`	`i think it should be http://www.flickr.com/photos/pitcherfamily/1155008255/`
`09:36.18`	`Linux_Galore`	`sry`
`09:36.32`	`ScaredyCat`	`why didn't you just say scummvm ... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Scummvm`
`09:38.18`	`Linux_Galore`	`ScaredyCat: meh, dont get ya knickers in a twist princes`
`09:38.30`	`tuukkah`	`ScaredyCat, thanks!`
`09:38.37`	`ScaredyCat`	`time is precious Linux_Galore`
`09:40.50`	`aloril2`	`Neo1973 screen is huge!`
`09:41.50`	`pH5`	`aloril2: nah, it's 2.8"`
`09:42.36`	`Linux_Galore`	`aloril2: yeah you dont realise how big until you put it next to a 5G iPod http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZJ_dcUjhNU`
`09:42.54`	`aloril2`	`hehe, comparing to 128x128 mobile screen`
`09:43.11`	`*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@fm92wl-89-31-10-134.isp.mcnet.cz)`
`09:43.17`	`Linux_Galore`	`I thought it would be a bit smaller`
`09:43.55`	`Linux_Galore`	`screen wise I mean`
`09:44.16`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`09:44.59`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`09:45.32`	`*** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de)`
`09:45.48`	`aloril2`	`this is from Neo1973 trough bluetooth GPRS (because cheaper SIM for GPRS) to remote PC and screen there`
`09:46.51`	`aloril2`	`hehe`
`09:46.55`	`mjr`	`not. very.`
`09:48.17`	`*** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu)`
`09:48.30`	`Ghiottone`	`any help for my common/linux_list.h not found error?`
`09:51.05`	`pH5`	`Ghiottone: gsmd/usock.h includes linux_list.h from inside an #ifdef __GSMD__`
`09:51.21`	`*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)`
`09:51.41`	`pH5`	`it would help if you could find out where __GSMD__ is set during openmoko-libs compilation, or you could try to just remove that #ifdef block from the header file completely`
`09:51.47`	`pH5`	`it is for gsmd internal use only`
`09:52.28`	`*** join/#openmoko El_Salvador2 (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-179-181.42-151.net24.it)`
`09:56.07`	`CM`	`Has anyone been able to build the 2007.2 image lately?`
`09:56.30`	`CM`	`It's been failing for two days for me on the kernel: http://rafb.net/p/1MD5Ck83.html`
`09:57.08`	`*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89)`
`10:00.23`	`ScaredyCat`	`CM: mine finally built last night...`
`10:00.37`	`ScaredyCat`	`I have to remove the -j 4 and parallel build`
`10:00.41`	`CM`	`So there's hope at least.. ;)`
`10:00.42`	`ScaredyCat`	`but it completed...`
`10:00.59`	`ScaredyCat`	`although this morning someone seems to have broken webkit`
`10:01.07`	`CM`	`Hehe`
`10:01.58`	`ScaredyCat`	`it took nearly 20GB though`
`10:02.43`	`*** join/#openmoko dirak1 (n=olpc@wireless-76.media.mit.edu)`
`10:03.24`	`ScaredyCat`	`... lonely as a cloud`
`10:05.00`	`*** join/#openmoko meus (n=bjartka@kremt.pvv.ntnu.no)`
`10:07.35`	`ScaredyCat`	`webkit == safari == direct compatability with iphone apps`
`10:08.30`	`happycube`	`webkit is also a lot smaller`
`10:08.42`	`happycube`	`also it was originally based on khtml which is a qt lib`
`10:10.13`	`mrface`	`I see. so it will be a more competitive if it can run all the iphone's apps plus tons more`
`10:10.27`	`Kliment`	`also, afaik maemo uses webkit`
`10:10.51`	`mrface`	`opera uses webkit?`
`10:11.03`	`Kliment`	`and i think maemo is the platform currently closest to om`
`10:11.59`	`CM`	`maemo had opera first, then a gecko based, iirc`
`10:14.00`	`*** join/#openmoko meus (n=bjartka@kremt.pvv.ntnu.no)`
`10:14.08`	`*** join/#openmoko thomasg__ (n=thomasg@p57AFF582.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:15.26`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`10:16.58`	`Kliment`	`CM: ah indeed you are right`
`10:17.00`	`ecraven`	`i was thinking about getting a Drei (three?) (www.drei.at) USIM, does anyone know whether that works with the neo?`
`10:17.22`	`*** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AEF50.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:17.35`	`Kliment`	`ecraven: sounds like a 3g network to me, in that case no`
`10:18.47`	`ecraven`	`hm.. i'll have to ask them.. 2g only for the neo?`
`10:19.11`	`mjr`	`ecraven, yep`
`10:19.32`	`Kliment`	`ecraven: they claim to have a gsm/gprs network as well`
`10:19.36`	`mjr`	`sounds like someone who'll block your sim if you use a 2g-only-device`
`10:19.37`	`Kliment`	`ecraven: so it might work`
`10:19.41`	`rxr`	`the SIM problem is not 3G or not`
`10:19.48`	`rxr`	`it is the manufacgoring year of the SIM, mostly`
`10:19.55`	`rxr`	`I have 3G SIMs that work`
`10:20.04`	`mjr`	`ok, if they do have a gsm network, it should work. If the SIM isn't incompatible like the AT&T ones`
`10:20.05`	`rxr`	`all 2007 SIMs from withing Germany do not ...`
`10:20.33`	`mjr`	`anyway, better ask them if the USIM should work in a GSM device`
`10:20.38`	`ecraven`	`i know they use the a1 gsm network if they don't have connectivity with umts`
`10:20.41`	`rxr`	`all USIMs do`
`10:20.47`	`rxr`	`this is a firmware bug of the TI chip`
`10:21.01`	`aloril2`	`uuuu`
`10:21.04`	`rxr`	`I have a 2007 SIM does does not work in the Neo and it works in a 6 year old Nokia brick ...`
`10:21.34`	`rxr`	`all current SIM cards are suppost to be backward compatible with ancient phones`
`10:21.43`	`*** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org)`
`10:21.57`	`rxr`	`btw. O2 in germany was kind enough to send out old SIM cards they had in a suty corner from 2006`
`10:21.58`	`*** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@datenfreihafen.org)`
`10:22.08`	`*** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org)`
`10:22.10`	`rxr`	`if they have a good customer service this drei.at might do the same`
`10:22.42`	`ecraven`	`i'll just get a written statement that it works, if it doesn't i'll go and tell them to give me another one`
`10:23.02`	`ecraven`	`ah, if it only were october already.. (or whenever gta02 comes out)`
`10:23.03`	`aloril2`	`sorry about previous`
`10:23.23`	`rxr`	`ecraven: written statement from?`
`10:23.31`	`ecraven`	`drei.at :)`
`10:23.42`	`rxr`	`ecraven: this is a TI firmware bug, they can in any case tell you and proof you your phone is buggy ...`
`10:23.58`	`ecraven`	`hm.. can't we get a firmware upgrade?`
`10:24.16`	`rxr`	`ecraven: I hope, but I'm not a Neo core team guy, so ...`
`10:24.23`	`ecraven`	`but the firmware is open?`
`10:24.23`	`rxr`	`ecraven: I'm waiting as well, and cross my fingers`
`10:24.31`	`mjr`	`ecraven, not the GSM chip's`
`10:24.31`	`rxr`	`in the meantime I have a SIM in my Neo that works ...`
`10:24.38`	`aloril2`	`this is kind of more weird than previous: keyboard is now on PC -> usbnet -> Neo1973 -> bluetooth GPRS -> PC -> here ;-)`
`10:24.40`	`rxr`	`a 3G, UMTS SIM, just from 2006 ... :-)`
`10:25.13`	`rwhitby`	`ScaredyCat: rm_work should work now, so you can get most of your 20GB back`
`10:25.13`	`rxr`	`ecraven: no the firmware is not open`
`10:25.14`	`rxr`	`ecraven: the GSM chip and the GPS chip are the two parts that are fully closed`
`10:25.14`	`mjr`	`the GSM firmware is very very closed; should be upgradeable, but requires special equipment that TI are jealous of, AIUI`
`10:25.32`	`ecraven`	`:(`
`10:25.46`	`mjr`	`Hopefully FIC/Moko will do send-in upgrades at least when they are less busy.`
`10:25.48`	`ecraven`	`can we get them to fix it?`
`10:25.54`	`ecraven`	`we all write mails?`
`10:26.13`	`mjr`	`oh, and when TI has actually fixed the problem`
`10:26.17`	`mjr`	`which they _hopefully_ will`
`10:26.49`	`mjr`	`but I don't think anyone else than TI is even able to do it, considering the closedness`
`10:27.02`	`rxr`	`ecraven: we all signed "we now it is devel preview and does not fully work", ...`
`10:27.08`	`*** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de)`
`10:27.43`	`rwhitby`	`mjr: I thought I heard Harald say that they were trying to get to a point where OpenMoko could recompile (but not release the source of) the TI firmware.`
`10:27.52`	`ecraven`	`hm.. i'll just pray it works on gta02 :)`
`10:28.05`	`Kliment`	`rwhitby: that's GPS, not GSM`
`10:28.14`	`Kliment`	`different beastt`
`10:28.16`	`ecraven`	`anyway, have to go.. thanks for the info!`
`10:28.19`	`mjr`	`rwhitby, ack`
`10:28.30`	`mjr`	`Kliment, yeah, I though it was GPS too`
`10:28.30`	`rwhitby`	`Kliment: I thought I heard both.`
`10:28.41`	`mjr`	`hmh`
`10:28.42`	`mjr`	`ah well`
`10:28.51`	`Kliment`	`rwhitby: that would be very positive, then we could download upgrades`
`10:28.52`	`mjr`	`at least both of my finnish SIMs work fine :]`
`10:29.03`	`rwhitby`	`They did say that anyone who meets an OpenMoko employee in person will be able to get a GSM firmware upgrade.`
`10:29.07`	`Kliment`	`mjr: works fine with a sonera sim, haven't tried the elisa one yet`
`10:29.10`	`mjr`	`Kliment, we couldn't actually install it though...`
`10:29.17`	`Kliment`	`mjr: ?`
`10:29.27`	`rwhitby`	`Kliment: you won't ever be able to download GSM firmware upgrades`
`10:29.32`	`mjr`	`the TI firmware upgrade process needs some special hardware`
`10:29.40`	`rwhitby`	`it requires special equipment, which works through the audio path`
`10:29.53`	`Kliment`	`the audio path`
`10:29.54`	`Kliment`	`wtf`
`10:30.02`	`rwhitby`	`yes, you plug it into the earphone socket`
`10:30.04`	`Kliment`	`we could hack the sound card driver :)`
`10:30.21`	`mjr`	`Kliment, if we knew at all how it went, and the stuff is probably digitally signed`
`10:30.36`	`rwhitby`	`I expect it's a test mode on that pin, not actually audio signals.`
`10:30.40`	`Kliment`	`mjr: yes, and that needs to be so due to radio regulations`
`10:31.06`	`Kliment`	`mjr: but if I push an official firmware update onto the thing without sending it in I'll be happy`
`10:31.22`	`Kliment`	`s/if I/if I can/`
`10:31.33`	`rwhitby`	`One would hope it's hard - I don't some misguided cyberpunk blacklisting the whole OpenMoko product line on all carriers.`
`10:31.47`	`SpeedEvil`	`OM!=neo1973`
`10:31.47`	`*** join/#openmoko serenity (n=serenity@p54859947.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`10:31.50`	`serenity`	`hi`
`10:32.03`	`mjr`	`Kliment, I doubt they'll happily release specs on how to send a firmware image to the unit even if it needs to be signed...`
`10:32.13`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, yeah, TI calypso gsm module handsets then`
`10:32.15`	`Kliment`	`mjr: yeah, I know :(`
`10:32.18`	`*** join/#openmoko psal (n=ps@s3.flex.ch)`
`10:32.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`It depends.`
`10:32.39`	`serenity`	`i am looking for the animated openmoko logo, which can be seen at the end of the clips on youtube. Where can i find it?`
`10:32.43`	`rxr`	`maybe Kevin Mitnick (--typos) has it in his portfolia already .-)`
`10:32.46`	`mjr`	`but hey, the Moko guys travel a lot ;)`
`10:32.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`If the FCC/... could be satisfied that users flashing would be secure enough.`
`10:33.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`signed + encrypted`
`10:33.23`	`rwhitby`	`SpeedEvil: dream on, the FCC is controlled by the carriers.`
`10:33.27`	`Kliment`	`signed is enough`
`10:33.34`	`*** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3BD9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`10:33.35`	`SpeedEvil`	`TI is a big player`
`10:33.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`TI!=FIC`
`10:33.56`	`rwhitby`	`TI has nothing to gain by allowing users to reflash GSM modules`
`10:34.26`	`mjr`	`well, they do; could advertise better upgradability of their modules...`
`10:34.30`	`rwhitby`	`and everything to loose`
`10:34.32`	`mjr`	`it's not much, though`
`10:34.35`	`rwhitby`	`s/loose/lose/`
`10:36.00`	`torpor`	`ok`
`10:36.03`	`Kliment`	`mjr: were you planning on getting back to hki tonight?`
`10:36.10`	`mjr`	`yes`
`10:36.10`	`torpor`	`<--- zero luck getting an openmoko build environment`
`10:36.17`	`Kliment`	`mjr: around when?`
`10:36.31`	`*** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@225.80-203-245.nextgentel.com)`
`10:36.33`	`torpor`	`can someone tell me the URL of the latest betamakefile? i've tried the one from the wiki, and it just refuses to finish building ..`
`10:36.51`	`mjr`	`when I get too tired of the sociality`
`10:37.00`	`Kliment`	`ok, I'll tag along then`
`10:37.04`	`Kliment`	`if possible`
`10:37.11`	`*** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo76@host81-153-249-223.range81-153.btcentralplus.com)`
`10:37.23`	`rwhitby`	`torpor: http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/branches/OM-2007.2/Makefile`
`10:37.29`	`pH5`	`on TI Calypso HTC phones, there are flashable 'encrypted' radio images available`
`10:37.31`	`mjr`	`but I'll lug along some card games and hardware that should enable me to not be leaving right away`
`10:37.45`	`Kliment`	`good good`
`10:37.58`	`torpor`	`rwhitby: thanks mate, trying it now.`
`10:38.07`	`Kliment`	`the airport staff managed to lose my bags inside the airport`
`10:38.14`	`Kliment`	`unbelievable incompetence`
`10:38.14`	`mjr`	`my current guess would be perchance elevenish`
`10:38.17`	`*** part/#openmoko serenity (n=serenity@p54859947.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`10:38.31`	`Kliment`	`elevenish sounds great`
`10:39.29`	`torpor`	`rwhitby: so its 'make setup' followed by 'make all' with this version of the makefile right?`
`10:40.03`	`ml8128`	`rwhitby: MokoMakefile for 2007.2 seems to work, I get strange qemu segfaults, but I don't think it's related to the makefile`
`10:40.43`	`*** part/#openmoko mrface (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`10:44.03`	`*** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@151.74.114.21)`
`10:47.05`	`ScaredyCat`	`ml8128: ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in local.conf`
`10:48.08`	`ml8128`	`ScaredyCat: ok, will try that, thanks`
`10:48.26`	`torpor`	`whats that do ScaredyCat ?`
`10:49.01`	`ScaredyCat`	`disables binary locale generation`
`10:49.05`	`ScaredyCat`	`oddly enough`
`10:49.11`	`torpor`	`but, why?`
`10:49.44`	`ScaredyCat`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#Build_issues`
`10:49.57`	`ScaredyCat`	`but why what?`
`10:51.07`	`torpor`	`why disable it?`
`10:51.57`	`ScaredyCat`	`because it fixes the problem, presumably your on 64bit arch ?`
`10:52.02`	`ScaredyCat`	`you're`
`10:53.19`	`*** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f049170221.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`10:55.01`	`jgm`	`ScaredyCat: sorry was afk`
`10:55.02`	`*** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de)`
`10:55.05`	`PBeck`	`hi`
`10:55.18`	`ScaredyCat`	`oh man that was ages ago ;)`
`10:55.21`	`PBeck`	`hi`
`10:55.27`	`jgm`	`Yeah I was AFK for quite a while`
`10:55.32`	`ScaredyCat`	`have you tried a build today?`
`10:55.37`	`jgm`	`Nope`
`10:55.37`	`ScaredyCat`	`hi PBeck..`
`10:56.07`	`torpor`	`i'm on ubuntu linux, 32 bit ffr.`
`10:56.09`	`jgm`	`Is it broken again?`
`10:56.16`	`ScaredyCat`	`webkit is...`
`10:56.24`	`PBeck`	`hey ScaredyCat`
`10:56.30`	`ScaredyCat`	`bt hey, I have an image so .. :D`
`10:56.40`	`rwhitby`	`torpor: make setup to switch from 2007.1 to 2007.2, or back again. make update to bring yourself up to date with latest OE and bitbake (or don't do that if you want to keep a stable old version) and make all to build.`
`10:57.19`	`jgm`	`rwhitby: I can get OM2007.2 to build with the makefile but I'm having trouble getting patches inserted in to the build, is this a known issue?`
`10:58.01`	`*** join/#openmoko Derbot2 (n=bogdan@193.138.97.30)`
`10:58.12`	`ScaredyCat`	`jgm : for libgsm ?`
`10:58.26`	`rwhitby`	`jgm: how are you inserting them? know that mokomakefile intentionally does a revert on the repositories when you update, so unless you put your patches in the patches dir they will be lost (I'm considering removing this revert after the switch to 2007.2 - it really only made sense for the svn overlay)`
`11:00.40`	`CM`	`rwhitby: I've been unable to build the kernel for two days now, any hint where I should look to try to solve it? Even restarting from scratch didn't help. http://rafb.net/p/1MD5Ck83.html`
`11:00.58`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/zhanlangongsi]] [[Main_Page/xieji]] [[Main_Page/xiyi]] [[Manually_using_GSM]] [[Wish_List_-_OpenMoko_Sounds]] [[User:Javiroman]]`
`11:01.13`	`jgm`	`I was creating them as per the Wiki (quilt new, quilt edit, quilt refresh etc.) The patch seems to be in the right place (patches/openmoko-HEAD) and a 'make setup' seems to apply it doesn't seem to take`
`11:01.47`	`Henrikw`	`hmm.. is the wiki getting spammed?`
`11:01.52`	`*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M9ff5.m.pppool.de)`
`11:01.55`	`jgm`	`(A bit of background: I'm attempting to add in a package to the build. I add a task to the list in trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb and have a recipie in trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/extd_svn.bb)`
`11:02.02`	`*** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`11:04.35`	`jgm`	`http://www.pastebin.ca/662118 shows the 'make setup' in which the patch (extd) seems to be applied but if then run a make it doesn't attempt to build the package (and a make build-package-extd states that the package is unknown)`
`11:04.45`	`rwhitby`	`jgm: if you're building om2007.2, then the openmoko svn is not used.`
`11:04.54`	`rwhitby`	`you want to put the patch in openembedded-HEAD`
`11:05.18`	`jgm`	`Ah, that would do it`
`11:05.21`	`jgm`	`Will give it a shot, thanks`
`11:05.23`	`rwhitby`	`CM: that's building the wrong kernel`
`11:05.33`	`CM`	`rwhitby: Oh, ok. Hmm..`
`11:06.01`	`rwhitby`	`CM: what was your command line (it was missing from the pastebin)`
`11:06.13`	`CM`	`make openmoko-devel-image`
`11:07.00`	`CM`	`Basically I've done make update ; make setup ; make openmoko-devel-image`
`11:07.22`	`CM`	`I haven't touched anything, just started with the latest makefile and let it download everything.`
`11:07.30`	`rwhitby`	`weird`
`11:07.42`	`PBeck`	`give it pre-build images for linux from openmoko?`
`11:08.04`	`PBeck`	`i only will see the new gui :)`
`11:08.06`	`CM`	`rwhitby: My local.conf http://rafb.net/p/5ElDNj92.html`
`11:08.12`	`PBeck`	`and test a bit`
`11:08.15`	`PBeck`	`no more ;)`
`11:08.19`	`PBeck`	`*not`
`11:08.21`	`*** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F04B.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`11:08.32`	`quinton`	`Henrikw, yes`
`11:08.35`	`CM`	`Neither I or ScaredyCat managed to build with rm_work because of circular dependencies`
`11:08.57`	`rwhitby`	`CM: perhaps the bbmask removing uboot is causing the moko kernel to be unbuildable, so it is falling back to a different one.`
`11:09.07`	`CM`	`Ah, I'll try that`
`11:09.23`	`rwhitby`	`the circular deps should be fixed now - update-bitbake to get it`
`11:09.30`	`rwhitby`	`(thanks to RP)`
`11:09.37`	`CM`	`:)`
`11:10.04`	`rwhitby`	`"make remove-work" will clean up an existing build after you re-enable rm_work`
`11:10.14`	`rwhitby`	`I got 15GB back that way.`
`11:10.16`	`*** join/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-016-022.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`11:10.21`	`CM`	`Hehe.. Nice`
`11:10.29`	`CM`	`I have 430gb free still, but anyway`
`11:10.43`	`jgm`	`rwhitby: great that worked. I'll make a note in Wiki for now and will clean it up properly when OM2007.2 goes official`
`11:10.47`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, mines a laptop disk unfortunately.`
`11:11.34`	`jgm`	`I'm just sorting out my new machine, going to pick up 3 750GB disks so should have some free space for a while :)`
`11:11.57`	`CM`	`rwhitby: I put in the uboot mask because people complained that it failed to build, and I had planed to leave the build on and go do something else`
`11:12.21`	`CM`	`jgm: I have one 500, and two 200 in raid 1`
`11:12.30`	`*** join/#openmoko bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`11:13.18`	`jgm`	`Yeah will probably have one primary, one secondary (nightly rsync) and one scratch/junk (in an attempt to cut down on housekeeping)`
`11:13.28`	`CM`	`rwhitby: It's building now :)`
`11:13.34`	`CM`	`Not the kernel, but something at least`
`11:13.49`	`jgm`	`rwhitby: BTW the flash-neo-local target doesn't work any more because of the new image locations`
`11:14.05`	`rwhitby`	`jgm: have you tried in the last 18 hours?`
`11:14.16`	`jgm`	`Nope, will grab a new makefile and check it out`
`11:14.32`	`rwhitby`	`I think I fixed that last night`
`11:15.32`	`rwhitby`	`heh`
`11:16.02`	`CM`	`rwhitby: Thanks once again though. I'd be nowhere without your makefile :)`
`11:16.28`	`jgm`	`Along with most people trying to develop, I suspect`
`11:16.28`	`*** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm4-3-0-240.802.cz)`
`11:16.34`	`rwhitby`	`I'd put up a paypal link, but I figure that getting a freebie GTA02 will do ;-)`
`11:16.34`	`*** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`11:16.54`	`CM`	`Hehe`
`11:18.02`	`rwhitby`	`The MokoMakefile builds on two years of nslu2-linux Master Makefile development, so I've got a bit of an idea on how to tame bitbake/OE by now ...`
`11:18.27`	`*** part/#openmoko Saub (n=dearsaub@61.48.167.65)`
`11:18.43`	`rwhitby`	`and since it's the way that i build my own stuff, it's not too much of an extra effort to maintain it.`
`11:18.54`	`jgm`	`I'm grateful that someone has, I can vaguely write recipies but it's still a black art to me`
`11:19.05`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`11:19.36`	`rwhitby`	`I only tame it from the outside - the insides are also black magic to me.`
`11:19.50`	`rwhitby`	`(that's when I point to RP)`
`11:19.52`	`*** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-83-236-15-172.dynamic.qsc.de)`
`11:20.16`	`*** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net)`
`11:21.13`	`jgm`	`rwhitby: is there a version number in the Makefile? I just did a 'make update-makefile' and it looks like flash-neo-local still refers to the wrong place (tmp/deploy/images rather than tmp/deploy/glibc/images/fic-gta01)`
`11:21.41`	`*** join/#openmoko Anon0499 (n=Anon0499@p54ACE2D3.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`11:21.49`	`Anon0499`	`HI@ll`
`11:22.17`	`rwhitby`	`jgm: "make check-makefile" will always tell you if you have the latest`
`11:22.44`	`rwhitby`	`and yes, flash-neo-local still needs fixing.`
`11:23.09`	`*** join/#openmoko alexzhang (n=alexzhan@219.133.176.104)`
`11:23.43`	`jgm`	`rwhitby: Have to admit I can't see much difference between check-makefile and update-makefile on-screen. I assume that it's doing something else behind the scenes but I didn't get an "up to date" message`
`11:23.58`	`*** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@194.125.54.46)`
`11:24.14`	`rwhitby`	`jgm: it would have shown you a diff if there were updates you didn't have yet.`
`11:24.53`	`jgm`	`Ah, okay`
`11:25.53`	`CIA-20`	`openmoko: 03rwhitby 07OM-2007.2 * r130 10mokomakefile/Makefile: Fixed the flash-neo-local and qemu-copy-package targets to look in the right place for 2007.2 build output.`
`11:26.00`	`rwhitby`	`Try check-makefile now to see it in action`
`11:28.34`	`torpor`	`wait, so should rm_work be turned on or off?`
`11:28.38`	`torpor`	`wait, so should rm_work be turned on or off?`
`11:28.40`	`rwhitby`	`on`
`11:28.51`	`jgm`	`Cool`
`11:29.17`	`rwhitby`	`make sure you update-bitbake to get the fix`
`11:29.30`	`rwhitby`	`you should have rev913 for bitbake`
`11:30.17`	`torpor`	`make check-makefile; make update-bitbake`
`11:30.59`	`rwhitby`	`you usually want update-makefile, unless you have local changes that you want to preserve and do the changes reported by check-makefile manually`
`11:31.16`	`rwhitby`	`(update-makefile will intentionally blow away any local changes to the Makefile)`
`11:31.43`	`torpor`	`what i want to do is catch up with building a turnkey image`
`11:31.59`	`rwhitby`	`make setup ; make update ; make all`
`11:32.01`	`torpor`	`i do not want to make any local changes until i've at least been able to successfully complete a first build.`
`11:32.46`	`torpor`	`and so far its been 4 days of failure.`
`11:32.59`	`torpor`	`i have to say that the complexity of openembedded sure makes for some fun times ..`
`11:33.47`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, I've previously predicted that some people will long for the good old days when there was an openmoko svn overlay ;-)`
`11:39.59`	`torpor`	`i can imagine that being a lot more fun anyway`
`11:41.11`	`*** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net)`
`11:44.26`	`mjr`	`just as an UI example of jabber-based mobile presence stuff:`
`11:44.27`	`mjr`	`14:42 < topyli> a screenshot of the jaiku-powered address book on my phone: http://i9.tinypic.com/6cmu72d.jpg`
`11:44.30`	`mjr`	`14:43 < topyli> are my friends online? is their phone in meeting or silet profile? what are they up to? what's their location?`
`11:44.55`	`mjr`	`14:43 < topyli> i can see when they're busy next time based on their calendar data`
`11:44.59`	`mjr`	`14:44 < topyli> i can also see if any of our mutual friends are in bluetooth range to them`
`11:48.07`	`ScaredyCat`	`for a minute there I thought he knew someone called Rivita`
`11:49.02`	`*** join/#openmoko santacalus666 (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`11:49.15`	`ScaredyCat`	`what are the ERROR: QA issue: sanity test failures?`
`12:01.54`	`*** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com)`
`12:06.51`	`juco2`	`I fixed my svn problem`
`12:07.01`	`juco2`	`turns out I had a custom version on this box that I forgot about`
`12:07.18`	`juco2`	`oops`
`12:07.41`	`*** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`12:10.14`	`*** join/#openmoko ufo76_ (n=ufo76@86.155.31.222)`
`12:10.59`	`*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)`
`12:13.04`	`*** join/#openmoko jaj (n=jaj@d90-129-9-224.cust.tele2.lu)`
`12:13.32`	`tuukkah`	`finally got gprs working by copying ppp config files from my computer`
`12:14.43`	`mjr`	`local gprs or via bluetooth from another phone? :)`
`12:14.49`	`tuukkah`	`local`
`12:15.07`	`mjr`	`goodie`
`12:16.09`	`tuukkah`	`there's something weird with authentication, a reason why other config files don't work even though they seem reasonable`
`12:16.10`	`mjr`	`should really configure both (since my usual sim has unlimited gprs)`
`12:17.11`	`tuukkah`	`are the instructions for ppp over bluetooth available somewhere?`
`12:17.30`	`*** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz)`
`12:18.50`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu)`
`12:19.18`	`*** join/#openmoko jouston (n=jouston@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net)`
`12:19.25`	`tuukkah`	`for some reason, pppd is failing with NO CARRIER every second time`
`12:20.15`	`*** join/#openmoko Jeff1f (i=HydraIRC@adsl-75-40-232-86.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net)`
`12:20.39`	`*** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`12:21.29`	`*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)`
`12:22.38`	`mjr`	`tuukkah, I have that very same thing with my nokia n-gage through bluetooth`
`12:23.27`	`tuukkah`	`NO CARRIER? for me it's with internal modem`
`12:24.11`	`mjr`	`Yes. And I mean, from my desktop or my laptop to my n-gage.`
`12:24.11`	`mjr`	`most likely from the neo as well, but haven't tried yet`
`12:24.40`	`tuukkah`	`hmm, so would it be a problem in the GSM chips?`
`12:24.52`	`mjr`	`that's a theory`
`12:25.05`	`tuukkah`	`i haven't seen it with my nokia 6021`
`12:26.02`	`mjr`	`or pppd and the usual chatscripts one sees floating around leave it in some funny state, but that'd seem weird`
`12:26.37`	`Kliment`	`any ideas on how to convince mrxvt to use font sizes below 8?`
`12:26.41`	`tuukkah`	`ok, pppd thinks user "" means "fic-gta01"`
`12:28.21`	`tuukkah`	`thus a nice chap-secrets line: * * "" *`
`12:28.28`	`*** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=c2ed8e06@bmw.hnvc.net)`
`12:29.42`	`CM`	`Kliment: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#My_mrxvt_.28terminal.29_fonts_are_huge.`
`12:29.47`	`mbuf`	i have #include "pin.h", but, i get undefined reference to `pin_init` when doing standalone Makefile build, http://free-opensource.qvantel.net/mediawiki/index.php/OpenMoko_Hello_World_Debian#Standalone_Makefile
`12:29.59`	`*** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl)`
`12:32.19`	`mbuf`	`any suggestions?`
`12:33.35`	`Kliment`	`CM: thank you`
`12:34.17`	`Kliment`	`CM: however without a working buildenv that doesn't really save me :(`
`12:34.22`	`*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@217.83.162.228)`
`12:37.07`	`*** join/#openmoko lekter3 (n=e-topic@212.166.221.146)`
`12:38.27`	`*** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A8671B.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`12:40.19`	`*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)`
`12:40.30`	`*** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl)`
`12:41.26`	`ecraven`	`:( all the phone providers in austria are rubbish..`
`12:50.01`	`jgm`	`How do`
`12:50.12`	`tuukkah`	`mjr, it helped to add this line to my gprs-disconnect-chat: "NO CARRIER" "" \`
`12:51.01`	`mjr`	`tuukkah, okiedokie`
`12:52.37`	`tuukkah`	`now how to update the /etc/resolv.conf properly? i use ppp option "usepeerdns" but it writes to /var/run/ppp/resolv.conf`
`12:54.21`	`cesarb`	`Hm, UPS's 0800 phone number is giving me a busy tone`
`12:55.17`	`cesarb`	`And thus I have no way of finding why the tracking page says "NO ONE ANSWERED THE PHONE WHEN UPS CALLED" when my cell phone never rang, and "THE RECEIVER DID NOT HAVE FUNDS AVAILABLE ON THE 1ST DELIVERY ATTEMPT" when no delivery attempt was made`
`12:55.51`	`pH5`	`tuukkah: you could ln -s /etc/resolv.conf to /var/run/ppp/resolv.conf`
`12:55.51`	`cesarb`	`tuukkah: it's supposed to be updated by ppp's post-up script`
`12:56.10`	`cesarb`	`tuukkah: which should read from that file to know what to put on /etc/resolv.conf`
`12:58.20`	`tuukkah`	`i see. perhaps we'll want to use something like resolvconf and dnsmasq`
`12:58.23`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
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`13:00.43`	`mbuf`	`anyone worked with libgsmd applications?`
`13:01.38`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Paris]] [[User:Zitune]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Braunschweig]] [[Main_Page]] [[MokoMakefile]]`
`13:04.06`	`jgm`	`What's the command to control the backlight on the neo?`
`13:04.21`	`zecke`	`jgm: echo?`
`13:04.36`	`jgm`	`Okay, so what's the path?`
`13:04.40`	`jgm`	`(please don't say /bin)`
`13:05.06`	`zecke`	`jgm: I assume the backlight class device is used, you will have a backlight dir in /sys`
`13:05.09`	`mickeyl`	`ya`
`13:05.21`	`mickeyl`	`echo "3000" >/sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl/brightness`
`13:05.33`	`mickeyl`	`(iirc)`
`13:05.47`	`*** join/#openmoko santacalus666 (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`13:07.14`	`jgm`	`Ta`
`13:12.01`	`cdbot2`	`* * OM Bug 715 has been created by kresp0(AT)yahoo.es`
`13:12.02`	`cdbot2`	`* * user Bsknuii is a spammer`
`13:12.03`	`cdbot2`	`* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=715`
`13:13.54`	`mickeyl`	`zecke: iirc you don't need to`
`13:14.15`	`mickeyl`	`zecke: a link to the code should be sufficient (it was last year)`
`13:24.08`	`jarkkol`	`hello, before starting to build my own images, where's a good setup of images to try out?`
`13:25.11`	`Kensan`	`jarkkol: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko`
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`13:31.01`	`Kliment`	`mjr: l�hd�ss� nyt`
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`13:39.54`	`*** part/#openmoko Writchie (n=Wally@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com)`
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`13:51.46`	`sagacis`	`top 'o the morn`
`13:52.42`	`torpor`	`yo`
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`14:03.50`	`*** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@20150179202.user.veloxzone.com.br)`
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`14:12.32`	`DukeOfURL`	`Good morning!`
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`14:17.30`	`DukeOfURL`	`My Cannon camera is able to put the scene in landscape mode when the camera is rotated. Is this done with accelerometers or mercury switches?`
`14:18.19`	`DukeOfURL`	`Would be nice if we could do this with the Neo...`
`14:19.06`	`Writchie`	`DuekOfUrl: this will be possible with the GTA02 by sensing the tilt with the accelerometers`
`14:19.17`	`DukeOfURL`	`cool!`
`14:19.24`	`Writchie`	`GTA02: also has hardware screen rotation`
`14:20.00`	`DukeOfURL`	`with the GPU?`
`14:20.03`	`raster`	`only problem is`
`14:20.07`	`raster`	`it doesnt have a camera`
`14:20.08`	`raster`	`:)`
`14:20.20`	`Writchie`	`a rather serious shortcoming today`
`14:20.32`	`raster`	`aye`
`14:20.32`	`*** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8312.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`14:20.34`	`Writchie`	`since the lowest end 3G phone for $100 has two`
`14:20.46`	`sagacis`	`Not a shortcoming from my point of view.`
`14:20.46`	`raster`	`maybe future openmoko phones will fix that`
`14:20.48`	`raster`	`:)`
`14:20.51`	`sagacis`	`I don't like the cameras.`
`14:20.55`	`raster`	`some people hate cameras`
`14:20.59`	`sagacis`	`Like me`
`14:21.01`	`meus`	`hmm i thought it had camera :/`
`14:21.05`	`sagacis`	`It's like a "day bed"`
`14:21.07`	`raster`	`some who work in secure environments literally have bigt problems with phones with cameras`
`14:21.26`	`sagacis`	`a compromise between two totally different domains that fails equally at both.`
`14:21.32`	`Writchie`	`bringing a phone into a secure environment to begin with is insane`
`14:21.40`	`sagacis`	`raster: I'm one who isn't supposed to bring cameras to work`
`14:21.57`	`sagacis`	`Writchie: The entire plant and parking lot where I work is secure.`
`14:22.06`	`raster`	`Writchie: ion this day and age - your mobile phones follows u everywhere`
`14:22.10`	`raster`	`irrespective`
`14:22.13`	`raster`	`its a lifeline`
`14:22.31`	`sagacis`	`It's a necessary toy (at least that's my statement on the neo)`
`14:23.11`	`raster`	`if peolpe use their phone for calendaring`
`14:23.11`	`raster`	`or other things`
`14:23.11`	`raster`	`u suddenmly lose that`
`14:23.11`	`sagacis`	`or calling....`
`14:23.11`	`raster`	`because of the exisetnce of a camera`
`14:23.11`	`raster`	`then u need to get another device for that`
`14:23.11`	`raster`	`and then u have 2`
`14:23.11`	`raster`	`or 3`
`14:23.15`	`raster`	`and just fill your pockets with them`
`14:23.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`Or unplug the camera.`
`14:23.20`	`sagacis`	`or forget appointments....`
`14:23.50`	`sagacis`	`The only REAL justification I've seen for a camera on a phone is to take pictures of an auto accident immediately....`
`14:24.04`	`Writchie`	`then you don't understand the use cases`
`14:24.09`	`sagacis`	`but, disposable digital cameras are ~$20 these days, so just put them in the glovebox`
`14:24.14`	`meus`	`but the phones does have usb so you could always hook up a camera to it?`
`14:24.57`	`sagacis`	`Writchie: Perhaps, but more likely, I just never seem to take picture. :-)`
`14:25.01`	`sagacis`	`pictures.`
`14:25.14`	`raster`	`sagacis: no - taking photos of the hot chick you met at the club`
`14:25.18`	`raster`	`along with her phone number`
`14:25.19`	`raster`	`and email`
`14:25.21`	`raster`	`is a good idea`
`14:25.26`	`sagacis`	`grainy pictures in a dark room?`
`14:25.29`	`raster`	`especially when u add 5 or 6 a night`
`14:25.32`	`raster`	`and u forget`
`14:25.42`	`sagacis`	`Besides, my wife would object. :P`
`14:25.44`	`raster`	`"was amy the hot blonde one? or the short-haired brunette?"`
`14:25.45`	`raster`	`:)`
`14:25.58`	`raster`	`do not deny the usefulness of a camera`
`14:26.00`	`raster`	`imho`
`14:26.05`	`raster`	`we should add a 5mpixel or so one`
`14:26.06`	`raster`	`frankly`
`14:26.13`	`sagacis`	`Yes, with a real lense`
`14:26.14`	`sagacis`	`lens`
`14:26.22`	`raster`	`i dont like carrying a cemra, phone, blackberyy and ipod in pockets when travelling`
`14:26.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`Cameras - even VGA ones - have much more use than no camera.`
`14:26.26`	`sagacis`	`That's where the problem come in. Slow CCD, tiny lens, etc.`
`14:26.27`	`raster`	`i'd like to take GOOD snaps`
`14:26.36`	`raster`	`with my 1 universal pocket-dwelling device`
`14:26.43`	`*** join/#openmoko emre_ (n=emre@81.215.22.130)`
`14:26.50`	`*** join/#openmoko sassman (n=alex@user-0cdfpmd.cable.mindspring.com)`
`14:26.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`I do not want to add more than $20 to the price for a camera.`
`14:27.03`	`sagacis`	`I think the idea of a complete integrated device is the ideal target....`
`14:27.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`A good VGA camera.`
`14:27.05`	`raster`	`here in jp`
`14:27.12`	`raster`	`u get phones with 5mpix cameras`
`14:27.22`	`raster`	`that are about the same lens and res wise as mid-range digi cams`
`14:27.32`	`raster`	`and u basically maybe see an extra $50 in the price`
`14:27.42`	`sagacis`	`Maybe I'm too old. Of everybody I know with a camera in their phone (pretty much everyone but me), only one even knows HOW to take pix.`
`14:27.44`	`raster`	`but that merans u dont have to spend $300 on the camera too`
`14:27.53`	`raster`	`sagacis: agreed`
`14:28.08`	`raster`	`imho a device with as many inputsd and abilites as possible, hardware-wise is a good idea`
`14:28.08`	`sagacis`	`Heck, I take more pix with their phones than they do...`
`14:28.12`	`raster`	`the rest then is software`
`14:28.17`	`*** join/#openmoko tri_ (n=tri@p57AD9890.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`14:28.18`	`sagacis`	`Of course, that's not a fault of the hw`
`14:28.53`	`sagacis`	`It would need to take decent video for it to really be useful.`
`14:29.01`	`sagacis`	`At least 12 fps 320x240`
`14:29.37`	`raster`	`no`
`14:29.37`	`emre_`	`I'm not sure if my message is received,so resending it:`
`14:29.38`	`emre_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:29.41`	`raster`	`should be much better`
`14:29.47`	`raster`	`vga @ 30fps at least`
`14:30.25`	`sagacis`	`Is the "overlay" technique still preferred?`
`14:30.44`	`raster`	`overlay for video?`
`14:30.54`	`sagacis`	`No, sorry. I was responding to emre_ indirectly.`
`14:31.30`	`torpor`	`is it true: there are no accelerometers in the neo1973?`
`14:31.35`	`emre_`	`saga: what's the overlay technique?`
`14:31.46`	`rwhitby`	`torpor: none in GTA01, two in GTA02.`
`14:31.55`	`torpor`	`ok`
`14:31.57`	`torpor`	`thx.`
`14:33.16`	`emre_`	`i'm reading the monotone and bitbake tutorials.. do I really need to know all about them to write/test stuff?`
`14:33.20`	`Writchie`	`Photo Messaging stat's 22% DE,FR - 30% IT,ES,UK - 17% of subscribers U.S. - rolling 3 month average`
`14:33.31`	`sagacis`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course`
`14:33.51`	`raster`	`Writchie: photo messaging is so last week`
`14:34.02`	`raster`	`in japan video calls are cheap and plentifukl`
`14:34.22`	`sagacis`	`emre_: That should get you started. It works well.`
`14:34.32`	`torpor`	`anyone who thinks that there are no applications for cameras on cell phones clearly has a very poor imagination.`
`14:34.46`	`torpor`	`i've built apps for clients whose entire interface starts with the camera`
`14:34.52`	`sagacis`	`emre_: but, it might be out of date if you are using a different mokomakefile from the one in use when the page was written`
`14:34.55`	`meus`	`torpor: agreed`
`14:34.56`	`emre_`	`saga: I think that's for new applications. when I want to edit for example openmoko-today, can I use that?`
`14:34.57`	`torpor`	`(claims adjusters, engineers, et al.)`
`14:34.59`	`*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)`
`14:35.08`	`sagacis`	`Oh, no, osry.`
`14:35.33`	`sagacis`	`emre_: Yes, you can by copying it over (I believe), but you can also just modify the code in-situ.`
`14:35.38`	`sagacis`	`where it is...`
`14:36.08`	`sagacis`	`When you are happy with the changes, you can post a PATCH to the mailing list to get it integrated, assuming it meets scrutiny`
`14:36.44`	`emre_`	`I want to fix the bugs I face with and send the diffs back (the std. way) but it is really consuming to try to understand all this bitbake/monotone and moko specific stuff.`
`14:37.06`	`sagacis`	`emre_: This is a very old page about it http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freshman_todo`
`14:37.46`	`sagacis`	`emre_: I am right with you. But be careful changing openmoko- apps. Others are working furiously on it.`
`14:38.08`	`sagacis`	`You don't want to duplicate somebody else's effort. Are you using the 2007.2 version?`
`14:38.16`	`emre_`	`yes, 2007.2`
`14:38.44`	`emre_`	`most of the bugs are a couple lines long, so an update and creating a patch is really trivial and probably easily merge-able..`
`14:38.55`	`sagacis`	`torpor: I understand. I took care of my concerns by buying a P1, or maybe also a P2. I'm just whiney.`
`14:39.02`	`*** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-122-244.elisa-mobile.fi)`
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`14:39.08`	`emre_`	`if it would be svn or cvs it would be trivial ;)`
`14:39.11`	`sagacis`	`emre_: Is there a Bugzilla bug for what you fixed?`
`14:39.17`	`sagacis`	`It's svn, right?`
`14:39.29`	`emre_`	`is it svn?`
`14:39.31`	`ynezz`	`mtn diff`
`14:39.36`	`ynezz`	`same like svn`
`14:39.36`	`jgm`	`Does anyone know what the bitbake package for gsmd is? I assumed it was gsmd bit a 'bitback -c unpack gsmd' doesn't seem to provide me with any source files`
`14:39.37`	`sagacis`	`for openmoko-today?`
`14:40.03`	`ynezz`	`right, that's svn`
`14:40.10`	`sagacis`	`That's what I thought.`
`14:40.35`	`mickey\|bbiab`	`libgsmd`
`14:40.49`	`emre_`	`i guess i'm confused. ok, one question, right now it is compiling it. and it seems that it is downloading perl packages. why is it always redownloading them again and again?`
`14:40.50`	`sagacis`	`emre_: You can make a bug for what you fixed in Bugzilla and post the patch, or post it to an already existing bug`
`14:40.52`	`mickeyl`	`rwhitby: announcement ETA sunday`
`14:41.07`	`rwhitby`	`mickeyl: it's sunday here already :-)`
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`14:41.37`	`Writchie`	`pre-annoucement now?`
`14:41.48`	`*** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@stjhnbsu84w-14216645094.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net)`
`14:42.13`	`rwhitby`	`mickeyl: I think the makefile is good to go. I'll just need to mv trunk to branches/2007.1 and branches/2007.2 to trunk, edit a couple of lines in the makefile, and we're done.`
`14:42.14`	`sagacis`	`emre_: Are you building from the correct directory?`
`14:42.15`	`noiddd`	`I was beta-testing video-cellphones 6 years ago.`
`14:42.33`	`noiddd`	`for the UK network "3"`
`14:42.37`	`sagacis`	`yay! then we'll only have one build path, right?`
`14:42.47`	`mickeyl`	`rwhitby: cool`
`14:43.13`	`sagacis`	`rwhitby: 'nite`
`14:43.46`	`emre_`	`i've downloaded as it is written in the wiki (the nslu2 way). then after a while i typed "make update" and make openmoko-image.`
`14:44.00`	`raster`	`noiddd: cameras on phones are standard now`
`14:44.04`	`raster`	`very few dont have them`
`14:44.11`	`raster`	`its almost expected equipment`
`14:44.15`	`sagacis`	`emre_: OK.`
`14:44.17`	`noiddd`	`I agree.`
`14:44.31`	`ynezz`	`emre_: are you sure it's same package?`
`14:44.32`	`sagacis`	`raster: So is dialing. :D`
`14:45.02`	`raster`	`actually`
`14:45.12`	`raster`	`i'd love some ocr stuff in the camera`
`14:45.18`	`raster`	`when someone has a number writtne down`
`14:45.22`	`raster`	`and u need to dial it`
`14:45.27`	`raster`	`just point camera - press button`
`14:45.29`	`mbuf`	`anyone has know-how or has worked with libgsmd applications?`
`14:45.31`	`raster`	`and it dials`
`14:45.58`	`ynezz`	`emre_: just make image and then you can follow 'How to create a OE development shell for interactive compiling/debugging' in OE FAQ to rebuild and test the patched app`
`14:46.36`	`ynezz`	`maybe mount something over nfs to not copy the app over and over again`
`14:46.52`	`emre_`	`hmm, ynezz,I think that's the answer i was looking for..`
`14:47.00`	`emre_`	`let me read it, tnx.`
`14:47.10`	`ynezz`	`sure you can also use bitbake -c compile <package>`
`14:47.39`	`emre_`	`ynezz: ok.`
`14:48.25`	`Writchie`	`mbuf: what are you trying to do?`
`14:48.41`	`mbuf`	`Writchie, any suggestions on, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-August/001327.html`
`14:50.48`	`Derbot2`	`question: what does pulseaudio do exactly ?`
`14:53.42`	`*** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-152-203-228.range86-152.btcentralplus.com)`
`14:53.43`	`Writchie`	`mbuf: pin.h is in the same directory as libgsmd.h - you might try #include <libgsmd/pin.h>`
`14:54.32`	`ynezz`	`Writchie: it's more linker problem`
`14:55.19`	`Writchie`	`but is found lgsm_init`
`14:55.46`	`Writchie`	`s/is/it/`
`14:58.03`	`ynezz`	`it's not in lib then? maybe it's private function?`
`14:58.21`	`*** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx)`
`14:58.29`	`Writchie`	`looking at the source now, it doesn't include pin.h`
`14:58.36`	`mbuf`	`ynezz, apt, that's correct; i have libgsmd in PKG, so i thought it should include it?`
`14:59.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`Odd. For some reason my neo isn't working with cdc_ether`
`14:59.29`	`mbuf`	Writchie, it looks like a linker problem; /tmp/ccGflTnh.o: In function `gsm_init': main.c:136 undefined reference to `pin_init' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
`14:59.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:59.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`is right?`
`15:01.05`	`ynezz`	`mbuf: objdump -t tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib/libgsmd.a \| grep init`
`15:01.13`	`ynezz`	`there's no such function in that lib`
`15:01.18`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[BlueTooth]] [[Bluetooth]] [[USB]] [[Openmoko]] [[APN]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Braunschweig]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Braunschweig]] [[User:DanielWillmann]] [[Main_Page/zhanlangongsi]] [[Main_Page/xieji]] and other changes`
`15:01.47`	`*** part/#openmoko Cairdazar (n=Cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to)`
`15:02.05`	`Writchie`	`ynezz: pin.c doesn't include pin.h so it may not be external`
`15:02.22`	`ynezz`	`dunno, just looking in the lib`
`15:02.41`	`ynezz`	`mbuf: objdump -t tmp/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib/libgsmd.a \| grep pin`
`15:02.59`	`ynezz`	`returns lgsm_pin_name, lgsm_pin`
`15:03.18`	`Writchie`	`ynezz: what i'm looking at may be too old.`
`15:03.36`	`ynezz`	`i'm using fresh om2007.2 build`
`15:04.10`	`Writchie`	`there's a dozen patches probably missing that may now be in om2007.2`
`15:04.15`	`*** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz)`
`15:04.20`	`ynezz`	`really?`
`15:04.29`	`ynezz`	`i've seen them applied`
`15:04.46`	`ynezz`	`if you mean the quilt series, about 12 patches or so`
`15:04.51`	`torpor`	`mickeyl: we should talk about audio gear some time soon .. i'm working with freecell on some new audio hardware, have been working for a DSP-related company for the past 6 years putting linux into embedded studio gear .. now i'm on my own and i wanna make a new instrument ..`
`15:04.57`	`Writchie`	`then you have them, the're just not in the build i'm looking at`
`15:05.02`	`Writchie`	`which was a 2007.1`
`15:05.14`	`ynezz`	`ah`
`15:05.26`	`Writchie`	`i'm waiting for 2007.2 is stabilize before a spin wheels`
`15:05.54`	`Writchie`	`stable as in a known baseline`
`15:06.16`	`ynezz`	`well the development is done there already`
`15:06.38`	`mbuf`	`ynezz, objdump -t /home/moko/build/tmp/staging/arm-linux/lib/libgsmd.a \| grep pin --> libgsmd_pin.c, lgsm_pin_name, lgsm_pin, pin_type_names`
`15:06.51`	`*** join/#openmoko Husare (n=AD@stgt-590e690d.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`15:07.07`	`*** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@71-35-72-17.phnx.qwest.net)`
`15:07.11`	`Writchie`	`pin_init?`
`15:07.34`	`ynezz`	`mbuf: it's om2007.1 right?`
`15:07.47`	`mbuf`	`ynezz, how do i find out?`
`15:08.02`	`mbuf`	`ynezz, it is an old build, been weeks since i updated it;`
`15:08.59`	`ynezz`	`i'm using om2007.2, build from 2 hours ago`
`15:09.09`	`ynezz`	`so that's why you've different output`
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`15:09.29`	`ynezz`	`you should have to use the latest i think if you're reporting bugs to bugzilla`
`15:09.55`	`mbuf`	`ynezz, noy reporting bugs as of now`
`15:10.04`	`mbuf`	`*not`
`15:10.29`	`ynezz`	`you can of course, but it will be hard to help you`
`15:10.32`	`ynezz`	`or fix it...`
`15:10.57`	`mbuf`	`ynezz want me to update to 2007.2?`
`15:11.06`	`ynezz`	`do what you want :)`
`15:11.22`	`*** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@62.73.65.2)`
`15:11.42`	`Writchie`	`it looks like there may be a mokomake for 2007.2 in a couple of days`
`15:12.02`	`ynezz`	`s/days/day/ i think :)`
`15:12.13`	`Writchie`	`me hopes`
`15:12.25`	`ynezz`	`but it's already possible to use MasterMakefile to build om2007.2 easily`
`15:12.26`	`tuukkah`	`can is somehow make /dev/ttySAC0 available over bluetooth so remote devices can use it for dial-up networking?`
`15:12.35`	`Writchie`	`easily?`
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`15:12.46`	`ynezz`	`as in make openmoko-image :)`
`15:13.10`	`Writchie`	`maybe i'll give that a try later today`
`15:13.29`	`ynezz`	`if I were you I would use latest mokomakefile`
`15:13.43`	`ynezz`	`there's a possibility to switch to om2007.2 already`
`15:14.01`	`ynezz`	`it's dual now, .1 and .2`
`15:14.10`	`ynezz`	`but haven't tried it myself`
`15:14.23`	`Writchie`	`that's my understanding, but it looks like were a couple of loose ends`
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`15:14.49`	`Writchie`	`i'll probably give it a shot later`
`15:15.54`	`mbuf`	`ynezz, if you have the time, can you compile that simple code and tell me if it builds fine on OM2007.2?`
`15:16.21`	`mbuf`	`because the dialer works fine on OM2007.1, and i have spoken for atleast 15 minutes`
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`15:17.05`	`ynezz`	`sure but tommorow, now i'm going to football match and some beers :D`
`15:17.47`	`jbl__`	`q: I am trying to build a developer image using MokoMake. I'm getting this error: make[3]: *** [moko-gsmd-connection.lo] Error 1..FATAL: oe_runmake failed`
`15:20.15`	`jbl__`	`I'm building it on Feisty and i'm using this guide: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile`
`15:20.34`	`mbuf`	`ynezz, ok, no problem, thanks`
`15:23.49`	`jgm`	`Writchie: have you done anything with D-Bus in libgsmd?`
`15:25.32`	`Writchie`	`jgm: I am starting first with a definition of the d-bus objects and methods`
`15:25.48`	`Writchie`	`i hope to have a first draft of this in a couple of days`
`15:26.04`	`jgm`	`Cool, I've been building out an extensions system and the first hook that I've been playing with should sit in gsmd.`
`15:26.36`	`Writchie`	`i have trouble with implement first and design later ;)`
`15:26.41`	`Writchie`	`doesn't work for me`
`15:27.07`	`jgm`	`There are design docs up on wiki for the extensions framework...`
`15:27.27`	`Writchie`	`sorry, wasn't referring to your stuff`
`15:27.34`	`mbuf`	interesting, i try to use pin_init in /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/examples/openmoko-stylus-demo, and i get the same undefined reference to `pin_init` for OM2007.1
`15:28.05`	`jgm`	`Fair enough.`
`15:28.42`	`Writchie`	`i'll go through your stuff on the wiki and factor it in.`
`15:29.04`	`jgm`	`Anyway, the idea of this is to allow third parties to extend the existing functionality of openmoko without needing to understand the details of the system (and also to provide some layer of separation between the core and the 'additional' features)`
`15:29.18`	`jgm`	`The initial doc is up on the wiki at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Extension_Framework but I would expect it to change a bit as things go on`
`15:29.41`	`jgm`	`(I've already had feedback regarding the use of return codes to expand their range from the existing allow/don't allow)`
`15:29.46`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: where's the pin_init function defined?`
`15:30.30`	`jgm`	`But anyway the basics of what I need for this particular piece is for gsmd to send a D-Bus call with the number that it is going to dial (just before it dials it) to allow extensions to change the number if required`
`15:31.15`	`jgm`	`I also need to tidy up the diagram on the Wiki so that it more closely resembles reality, but I have details of the call to be made if you need the info`
`15:31.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`What about - when an extension is started, it sends out a signal that it may want to modify dialled numbers?`
`15:31.45`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, in pin.h as external int pin_init(struct lgsm_handle lh, const char pin_preset);`
`15:31.53`	`jgm`	`You need to have a central process that handles the extensions so that you can manage things like ordering, enable/disable, prefs and the like`
`15:32.13`	`jgm`	`Plus this way you don't need to start all of the extensions at boot-time, just when they are needed (through use of D-Bus services)`
`15:32.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'm basically meaning so that there is no delay.`
`15:33.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`Loading something at dial time may be suboptimal.`
`15:33.34`	`jgm`	`Only first time around, and if it proves to be an issue we could put a pref in extd (the extensions daemon) to load all registered extensions when it starts`
`15:33.35`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: there's no include files for that. (check /trunk/src/target/gsm/include/)`
`15:33.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`A 'I'm in a state where I might be placing calls soon' might be nice.`
`15:33.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`For example, when the dialer starts, it might call this.`
`15:34.07`	`SpeedEvil`	`or announce this.`
`15:34.18`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, this is what i am trying to do, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-August/001327.html`
`15:34.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`Sorry - I'm just wibbling - without reading what's there already.`
`15:34.54`	`jgm`	`True, but that's only for the one method that we've discussed so far. There will eventually be lots of different methods available (answering calls, receiving messages, etc.) so we'd have to build up a(nother) rules system to work out when to pre-load extensions`
`15:34.54`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, it is a local file that is used in libgsmd-tool, so i used it in my test main.c file (#include "pin.h")`
`15:35.09`	`jgm`	`Not a problem, but I'd like to get the existing system in place before optimising it :)`
`15:35.19`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, i am assuming it is a function in libgsmd.a that talks with the GSM unit`
`15:35.22`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: yes, but the header file you are including does not define the pin_init function.`
`15:35.32`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: no it is not.`
`15:35.52`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, ohh`
`15:36.04`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: it's in /trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/pin.h`
`15:36.15`	`*** join/#openmoko sree (n=sree@59.93.4.185)`
`15:36.55`	`sree`	`hi guys`
`15:36.55`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, isn't that the same as what libgsmd-tool uses it?`
`15:37.31`	`Kensan`	`no, libgsmd-tool is including "pin.h" which it searches in the same folder as libgsmd-tool.c.`
`15:39.03`	`Writchie`	`jgm: what i'm attempting to do is to define an abstract opaque dbus interface to the UMTS/GSM MT functionality.`
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`15:39.09`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, so if i am using a standalone application to initialize the GSM, i don't need to use it?`
`15:39.26`	`sree`	`am a n00b`
`15:39.35`	`Writchie`	`jgm: conceptually, this is a layer above libgsm/gsmd`
`15:39.54`	`sree`	`hey y propeitry gsm stack guys`
`15:39.56`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, the same with event_init?`
`15:39.59`	`sree`	`??`
`15:40.00`	`aloril`	`sree: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)`
`15:40.09`	`Writchie`	`jgm: the idea is to allow the application layers above to focus on their particular subsets`
`15:40.29`	`Writchie`	`jgm: without getting buried in the complexities of umts/gsm`
`15:40.29`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: I don't know what needs to be done to correctly initialize gsm`
`15:41.00`	`Writchie`	`jgm: the layers below can then sort things out over time without impacting all the myriad of applications above`
`15:41.01`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, since libgsmd-tool is an application that works with libgsmd API, I thought I could use it as a reference for my test application`
`15:42.08`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: sure, I imagine that you need to do the pin-handling since you can't get access if the sim is pin-locked.`
`15:42.54`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: you can simply use pin.c pin.h from /trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/ and go from there.`
`15:43.24`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: put them in the same folder as your gsm-application and then #include "pin.h" will include the proper header file.`
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`15:46.04`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, awesome! it works!`
`15:46.19`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, so i needed pin.c, that was the key`
`15:46.58`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: great :)`
`15:47.49`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: maybe you want to post the solution to the ML as a replay to your own mail.`
`15:48.03`	`Kensan`	`reply`
`15:48.33`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, i was doing that actually :)`
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`15:50.03`	`*** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu)`
`15:50.18`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, oops, i mentioned in the e-mail as Kensan, sorry, what is your real name?`
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`15:51.07`	`PBeck`	`hi`
`15:51.32`	`jgm`	`Writchie: hmm... thinking about it then perhaps this does sit at a lower layer, which makes sense. Question then is: are you the guy to add this to gsmd or should someone else? I don't have experience of D-Bus outside of the glib bindings so wouldn't know how to go about adding this in, even though it is conceptually quite simple (just a single D-Bus call and handling of the results)`
`15:52.14`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: Adrian R�egsegger`
`15:52.40`	`mbuf`	`Kensan, thanks for your help`
`15:52.49`	`Writchie`	`jgm: there is a stong desire to keep the libgsm/gsmd dbus free`
`15:52.58`	`jgm`	`Yeah, thought there might be`
`15:53.19`	`Kensan`	`mbuf: glad I could help.`
`15:53.31`	`Writchie`	`this implies that the daemon that provides this Mobile terminal layer will use libgsm/gsmd`
`15:53.38`	`Writchie`	`at least initially.`
`15:53.43`	`jgm`	`Problem then is unless there is only a single entry point it's going to be hard to get all of them to follow the standard way of doing things`
`15:54.25`	`Writchie`	`jgm: that's one of the problems with the current approach`
`15:54.39`	`Writchie`	`there has to be an entity that arbitrates`
`15:54.50`	`jgm`	`Is that what you're aiming to provide?`
`15:55.18`	`Writchie`	`i'm hoping to define the complete layer below MMI apps`
`15:55.52`	`jgm`	`Hmm... but then I would assume that you don't arbitrate access to gsmd as applications can side-step you`
`15:56.23`	`Writchie`	`the present architecture permits a free for all.`
`15:56.49`	`torpor`	`there should really be a base that we can all work from ..`
`15:57.15`	`Writchie`	`i think there is consensus at the application layer that dbus is sufficient`
`15:57.42`	`Writchie`	`if libgsm eventually provides arbitration, then would cooperate with the layer that exports dbus`
`15:57.55`	`jgm`	`Okay so you state that everyone should go through D-Bus with the caveat that if they don't then they have the potential of making a mess`
`15:58.22`	`Writchie`	`everyone going through d-bus will be assured of arbitration`
`15:58.23`	`jgm`	`But surely at that stage then you are adding a D-Bus interface to gsmd, otherwise how do the D-Bus calls get translated to gsmd?`
`15:59.07`	`*** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea)`
`15:59.11`	`Writchie`	`first, libgsmd is the present exposed entity`
`16:00.06`	`Writchie`	`you can think of libgsmd as the c interface to the mobile termination`
`16:01.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`What about a libgsmd-dbus alternative`
`16:01.27`	`SpeedEvil`	`that implements the libgsmd layer, with dbus`
`16:01.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`but the normal libgsmd stays there for applications which do not have dbus`
`16:01.50`	`jgm`	`Hmm... so you have a service that accepts D-Bus methods, which makes calls to libgsmd functions (which then talks to gsmd through some not-yet-mentioned method)?`
`16:03.32`	`jgm`	`(SpeedEvil: it sounds like that is what Writchie is talking about providing, I'm just a tad hazy on the interface at the lower level i.e. what talks to gsmd, and how?)`
`16:04.37`	`Writchie`	`SpeedEvil: because the layer is opaque, yes, it could replace libgsmd`
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`16:04.55`	`Writchie`	`it could also replace gsmd at some point`
`16:05.47`	`Writchie`	`there is also a need to deal to with the audio`
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`16:06.35`	`Writchie`	`IMO the dialer should at least meet all basic GSM MMI functionality.`
`16:06.56`	`Writchie`	`the idea is permit this to be easily done through the dbus methods`
`16:06.57`	`*** part/#openmoko jbl__ (n=jbl@2906ds1-gl.0.fullrate.dk)`
`16:07.10`	`jgm`	`Trouble with implementing a lot of that in the dialer is that the dialer should fundamentally be a GUI to low-level APIs rather than containing any of the lower-level code itself`
`16:07.26`	`Writchie`	`jgm: absolutely`
`16:07.38`	`jgm`	`Otherwise when someone wants to write dialer++ they have too much work to do to replicate dialer`
`16:07.47`	`mickeyl`	`yeah`
`16:07.57`	`Writchie`	`jgm: and they surely get it wrong as well`
`16:08.10`	`jgm`	`(Which gets hideous when you think that something like an IM app may want the ability to voice-call a user, for example)`
`16:08.18`	`jgm`	`Hey well at least we're all thinking the same thing :)`
`16:08.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`Or web-page to phone number, ...`
`16:08.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`There really need to be several more URI schemas defined.`
`16:08.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`We _need_ gps://`
`16:09.00`	`Writchie`	`or circuit switched data call for encrypted end to end voice`
`16:09.07`	`*** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-83-236-15-172.dynamic.qsc.de)`
`16:09.24`	`jgm`	`Unfortunately what we're all thinking is "this needs a lot more work" :(`
`16:10.01`	`Kensan`	`Writchie: are you doing some work on CSD end-to-end crypto?`
`16:10.05`	`Writchie`	`this is why, unfortunately, it is necessary to take account of all of UMTS/GSM and the universe of use cases when architecting the foundation`
`16:10.16`	`Writchie`	`Kensan: just enabling it`
`16:10.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`VOIP, key managment?, push to talk, ...`
`16:11.06`	`Kensan`	`Writchie: I see. It would be quite interesting to discuss that issue.`
`16:11.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`conference call, UMA, CLI.`
`16:11.10`	`jgm`	`Yep and that's why I'm avoiding the whole area by doing the extensions thing, trying to keep this stuff a) separate and b) easy for other people to add to without needing to worry about that stuff`
`16:11.42`	`Writchie`	`SpeedEvil: both UMA and SIP`
`16:11.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`yeah.`
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`16:40.39`	`Zitune`	`hello`
`16:40.56`	`jbl__`	`When building the developer image i get: /home/moko/build/tmp/staging/arm-linux/include/gsmd/usock.h:429: error: field 'list' has incomplete type`
`16:41.19`	`jbl__`	`Anybody got an idea why? thanks`
`16:41.21`	`*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)`
`16:41.40`	`ckuethe`	`missing header`
`16:41.54`	`ckuethe`	`check to see what 'list' is supposed to be`
`16:42.10`	`Zitune`	`When launching openmoko ... it seems not find any icons ... someone has an idea ?`
`16:42.10`	`ckuethe`	`then make sure that it's actually defined as such`
`16:42.19`	`torpor`	`using the latest beta makefile, i'm on job 299 of 3542 .. with 5 gigs disk space left. think i'll need more?`
`16:42.39`	`jbl__`	`the source is: struct llist_head list;`
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`16:43.02`	`torpor`	`can someone who has run the makefile to conclusion tell me how big their moko folder became?`
`16:43.33`	`jbl__`	`torpor: > 6giga`
`16:44.26`	`cesarb`	`torpor: there's an estimate at the Mokomakefile page in the wiki`
`16:44.41`	`cesarb`	`torpor: which is higher than what it was before, so it probably has been updated recently`
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`16:46.02`	`Zitune`	`torpor : 8.3 Go`
`16:48.26`	`torpor`	`thx`
`16:48.35`	`jbl__`	`So I can conclude that there is a bug in the gsmd module - or is it just me having this problem?`
`16:48.58`	`Zitune`	`8.3 Go ... without icons`
`16:49.02`	`Zitune`	`:)`
`16:49.37`	`jgm`	`jbl__: when did you start your compile? I have one from about 10 hours ago that build okay`
`16:50.02`	`jgm`	`Also, is this using the 'new' mokomakefile for OM2007.2?`
`16:50.27`	`jbl__`	`I downloaded the code yesterday evening and started the build this morning`
`16:50.57`	`*** join/#openmoko b1303s__ (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-8b1e25fe7b2aca3a)`
`16:51.06`	`Zitune`	`jbl__ : be pqtient`
`16:51.46`	`jgm`	`jbl__: which makefile? Things are transitioning (this weekend) from OM2007 to OM2007.2 so it may be that you're running the old (and possibly outdated) makefile`
`16:53.07`	`*** join/#openmoko Aztlek (i=lbernal@190.156.49.53)`
`16:53.22`	`*** join/#openmoko DeeDeND (n=daniele@host65-52-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`16:53.25`	`jbl__`	`jgm: how can I check this?`
`16:53.38`	`jgm`	`torpor: I just checked my Om2007.2 build and it's just over 17GB`
`16:54.04`	`jgm`	`jbl__:check the head of the Makefile, see if it says 'OPENMOKO_GENERATION = 2007.2'`
`16:55.38`	`mbuf`	`jgm, OM2007.1 was 8 GB for me; that is quite a big size`
`16:56.30`	`jbl__`	`jgm: There isen't a constant named "OPENMOKO_GENERATION" in my /home/moko/Makefile so I asume i'm using the old?`
`16:56.56`	`ScaredyCat`	`torpor: I had 20GB free`
`16:57.01`	`ScaredyCat`	`I now have 2.1`
`16:57.22`	`ScaredyCat`	`it's farkin hughe`
`16:57.26`	`ScaredyCat`	`huge`
`16:57.29`	`*** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl)`
`17:00.19`	`jgm`	`jbl__: Yep I suspect so`
`17:00.38`	`jgm`	`Hate to say it, but you should probably start again with the new makefile :/`
`17:00.53`	`jgm`	`http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/branches/OM-2007.2/Makefile`
`17:00.58`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[USB_Networking]] [[MokoMakefile]]`
`17:01.04`	`jbl__`	`jgm: Allright thanks. I'll try that`
`17:01.22`	`jgm`	`mbuf: I'm not using +rm_work so perhaps that accounts for the size difference`
`17:02.22`	`fgau`	`this works very smooth: http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/branches/OM-2007.2/Makefile`
`17:04.33`	`torpor`	`i'm using this new makefile.`
`17:04.40`	`torpor`	`18gigs you figure?`
`17:05.57`	`*** join/#openmoko noiddd (n=red@thievery.criticalintegration.com)`
`17:06.42`	`*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)`
`17:06.55`	`torpor`	`anyone remember the name of that linux app that does a 'block view' of a disk, to show you the biggest files/folders graphically?`
`17:06.55`	`torpor`	`kdirview, is it? or something .. ;)`
`17:07.33`	`ScaredyCat`	`kdirstat`
`17:08.55`	`torpor`	`cool thanks.`
`17:11.06`	`torpor`	`NOTE: Running task 474 of 3542 (ID: 1609, /home/j/hak/openmoko/openembedded/packages/xorg-lib/libx11_1.1.2.bb, do_package)`
`17:11.16`	`torpor`	`^^^ going to assume that having 8gigs free from this point on will be okay ..`
`17:12.29`	`jgm`	`Brave :)`
`17:12.41`	`*** join/#openmoko emdel (n=emdel@host64-219-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`17:13.00`	`mickeyl`	`it mainly depends on the amount of sources you already have in your DL_DIR`
`17:15.48`	`Zitune`	` (openmoko-dialer:8411): WARNING : Cannot load stock icon from`
`17:15.48`	`Zitune`	`theme : moko-contact-delete`
`17:16.07`	`Zitune`	`do i need to download a theme`
`17:16.31`	`Zitune`	`or is it some where in the copiling directory ?`
`17:16.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://www.lab.telin.nl/~koolwaaij/showcase/gsmcells/ - this work for others? html only in ff`
`17:20.44`	`anrp`	`they've got a wrong content-type in the http header`
`17:20.51`	`*** join/#openmoko InfiL00p (n=bowserj@204.244.194.11)`
`17:21.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`Indeed.`
`17:22.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`ff and lynx breaks.`
`17:22.49`	`anrp`	`ie works!`
`17:22.51`	`anrp`	`... er`
`17:23.20`	`anrp`	`also all thats on that site is a "old site message"`
`17:23.44`	`anrp`	`new url is http://client338.lab.telin.nl:8080/wasp/jsp/CellStats.jsp`
`17:23.55`	`anrp`	`... which is also broken in moz`
`17:24.08`	`anrp`	`talk about a fail web server`
`17:24.13`	`anrp`	`works in ie -_- again`
`17:24.24`	`CIA-20`	`openmoko: 03mickey * r2739 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c: neod: add screenshot entry to powerbutton popup menu`
`17:24.26`	`ScaredyCat`	`2nd one works in ff`
`17:25.05`	`*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-103-77.sa.bigpond.net.au)`
`17:26.13`	`*** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de)`
`17:33.03`	`rxr`	`mickey\|dinner:`
`17:33.05`	`rxr`	`-//#define DEBUG_THIS_FILE`
`17:33.05`	`rxr`	`+#define DEBUG_THIS_FILE`
`17:33.51`	`zecke`	`hehe`
`17:34.29`	`zecke`	`I'm ashamed that our industry is so old and we still use printf for debugging...`
`17:34.51`	`rxr`	`...`
`17:35.57`	`rxr`	`but I only wanted to point out that it probably accidently was enabled`
`17:36.12`	`anrp`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:36.27`	`zecke`	`rxr: I assumed that`
`17:36.30`	`anrp`	`hey, at least it's better than iostreams`
`17:36.53`	`sagacis`	`Anybody have a web browser for the neo yet?`
`17:37.49`	`zecke`	`I don't know if interactive debugging is to be blamed, but there needs to be a language where you can externally define which methods/branches should be traced without adding macros to the code all over the place...`
`17:39.04`	`Ghiottone`	`when is the package.gz file updated?`
`17:39.12`	`Ghiottone`	`how can I update it manually?`
`17:39.39`	`kristian-m`	`sagacis you can use minimo - until openmoko finished theirs`
`17:41.05`	`*** join/#openmoko mcmops (n=anonym@port-213-148-157-231.static.qsc.de)`
`17:41.10`	`sagacis`	`kristian-m: Got an ipkg, or should I get source and start building?`
`17:41.51`	`zecke`	`Ghiottone: bitbake package-index will update the files`
`17:42.33`	`zecke`	`rxr: do you have any plans to not require root permissions for t2?`
`17:42.52`	`rxr`	`yes "plans" :-)`
`17:42.53`	`*** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@62.73.65.2)`
`17:43.03`	`rxr`	`but that will probably not realized this year`
`17:43.17`	`zecke`	`rxr: by using some sort of virtual chroot with LD_PRELOAD?`
`17:43.18`	`rxr`	`zecke: does OE require to be root or use something like fakeroot ?`
`17:43.39`	`zecke`	`fakeroot for some tasks marked as such`
`17:44.13`	`kristian-m`	`sagacis i've got one here but you'd have to solve dependencies anyway...`
`17:44.41`	`*** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0E7CE.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:44.49`	`*** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@208.65.86.158)`
`17:45.13`	`sagacis`	`Oh, hey, minimo is in there.... Started the bitbake`
`17:45.34`	`rxr`	`zecke: in the last .2 image I flashed gsm-util (or tool, or what it was named) segfaults on the sms commands, don't know if that is known or fixed already`
`17:45.37`	`ferric`	`how long does flashing a new u-boot take?`
`17:45.42`	`rxr`	`but as we talk you might like to know ...`
`17:46.14`	`Ghiottone`	`zecke, thanks but I can't figure the command line. I tried it from the mokomakefile dir, setting cache, from build dir and package dir. any more tip?`
`17:46.16`	`rxr`	`let me know if you want a backtrace`
`17:46.48`	`zecke`	`rxr: all I know is that harald merged patches implementing SMS. E.g. I don't know if it is appreciated to file bug reports for such issues`
`17:47.16`	`zecke`	`rxr: Not working at/for FIC/OpenMoko it is hard to judge but I would probably mail the backtrace to gsmd-devel`
`17:47.50`	`rxr`	`zecke: what do you mean with "Not working at/for FIC/OpenMoko it is hard to judge"`
`17:48.24`	`rxr`	`zecke: ah, ok - miss-associated your nick :_)`
`17:48.29`	`ewon`	`re`
`17:48.42`	`zecke`	`rxr: well, it is hard to judge if they prefer to be poked by irc, by mail, mailinglist or bugreport`
`17:48.52`	`CM`	`ferric: Do you have a debug board?`
`17:48.58`	`rxr`	`zecke: yes yes, all fine :-) just mixed up the nick with someone else :-)`
`17:49.48`	`gcb77_`	`Is it safe to flash the phone with an image you bulild with the MokoMakefile?`
`17:49.49`	`zecke`	`Ghiottone: I have sadly never used the MokoMakefile, but I think there is an easy way to invoke bitbake commands`
`17:50.51`	`kristian-m`	`gcb77_ you can backup the old image if unsure`
`17:50.51`	`*** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix)`
`17:51.19`	`zecke`	`Ghiottone: looking at the Makefile make build-package-package-index could work`
`17:51.21`	`ljp`	`gcb77_: yes`
`17:51.45`	`ljp`	`mokomakefile just makes things easier to setup`
`17:51.52`	`ferric`	`CM: yep`
`17:52.04`	`zecke`	`ljp: who is David Bialer?`
`17:52.10`	`*** join/#openmoko santacalus666 (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`17:52.20`	`ljp`	`zecke: why do you ask? :)`
`17:52.24`	`ferric`	`CM: i just got my device and it is dying with a kernel panic`
`17:52.25`	`meus`	`so for emulation on a pc (linux) what is the best choice? Xoo, Xephyr or Qemu? or something else?`
`17:52.28`	`gcb77`	`cool... there's finally a real NEO in a truck heading my way`
`17:52.32`	`CM`	`ferric: Don`
`17:52.47`	`CM`	`ferric: Don't flash uboot, flash the kernel and rootfs`
`17:53.03`	`zecke`	`ljp: I'm making up my mind if I should reply, as I'm currently talking with Knut anyway...`
`17:53.05`	`tri_`	`meus: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU`
`17:53.07`	`ferric`	`CM: ah. okay.`
`17:53.17`	`CM`	`ferric: But sure, if you have the board, flash the uboot too if you feel like it :)`
`17:53.26`	`CM`	`ferric: It only takes a few seconds`
`17:53.27`	`meus`	`tri_: so QEMU it is then. I guess i really have to install gcc 3.4 then..`
`17:53.59`	`ljp`	`zecke: Partner Manager`
`17:54.01`	`gcb77`	`I'm going to start updating the VMWare image... make it current`
`17:54.12`	`gcb77`	`any ideas how I could make it smaller?`
`17:54.27`	`ferric`	`CM: maybe for later, first step is to get it to boot :)`
`17:54.31`	`zecke`	`ljp: ah, so Knut is only PM for Qt?`
`17:54.36`	`ScaredyCat`	`for a start use an expanding disk`
`17:54.51`	`ScaredyCat`	`make sure you zero it before you start`
`17:54.57`	`ljp`	`Knut is community guy which does PR`
`17:55.07`	`CM`	`ferric: Follow the wiki, and pick a somewhat recent kernel and rootfs :)`
`17:55.07`	`gcb77`	`ScaredyCat: if I zero it, the disk expands to max`
`17:55.29`	`*** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@bb121-7-50-43.singnet.com.sg)`
`17:55.35`	`gcb77`	`ScaredyCat: but then it compresses good, so it doesn't matter`
`17:55.51`	`ScaredyCat`	`well, that depends on your point of view...`
`17:55.54`	`jipi`	`hi anyone has anyidea of the pinout for the debug board? i am looking for the uart pint outs`
`17:55.58`	`gcb77`	`What I'm aiming for is a ZIP file under 2GB`
`17:56.15`	`jipi`	`or even better the schematic for the debug board`
`17:56.16`	`ScaredyCat`	`if it uses less disk space whenit's running, more people will be happy`
`17:57.19`	`gcb77`	`ScaredyCat: good point... I'll see if there is a way to shrink it after creating a zero file`
`17:57.23`	`CM`	`Who else was it that had problems building webkit-gtk? Any way around it?`
`17:57.47`	`J-23`	`Where I can find MTN?`
`17:57.56`	`zecke`	`J-23: monotone.ca?`
`17:58.02`	`CM`	`J-23: What distro?`
`17:58.20`	`*** join/#openmoko tomjoad4500 (n=tomjoad4@adsl-70-130-239-238.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net)`
`17:58.25`	`ferric`	`CM: great - thank you.`
`17:58.53`	`CM`	`zecke: Any hint how I can get around this: http://rafb.net/p/Xn0mRd56.html`
`17:58.54`	`*** join/#openmoko santacalus666 (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`17:59.03`	`J-23`	`CM: Fedora.`
`17:59.17`	`J-23`	`zecke: Thanks.`
`17:59.18`	`ScaredyCat`	`CM: I have webkit itssues`
`17:59.40`	`CM`	`ScaredyCat: Gotten around it?`
`17:59.41`	`ScaredyCat`	`same problem...`
`17:59.44`	`ScaredyCat`	`no`
`17:59.44`	`*** part/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net)`
`17:59.48`	`CM`	`:-/`
`18:00.03`	`ScaredyCat`	`I built my image before whoever updated the code broke it`
`18:00.03`	`*** join/#openmoko ufo76_ (n=ufo76@host86-145-240-248.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)`
`18:00.06`	`zecke`	`CM: yes, a reason to lock down webkit. a) set SRCDATE to tomorrow b) get a known revision`
`18:00.30`	`CM`	`zecke: ok, thanks`
`18:00.33`	`zecke`	`CM: http://build.webkit.org/`
`18:00.44`	`zecke`	`a) doesn't work as TOT is broken...`
`18:01.35`	`zecke`	`CM: add ;rev=25125 to the SRC_URI(s) of webkit`
`18:01.56`	`gcb77`	`J-23: which SuSE?`
`18:02.04`	`rxr`	`zecke: you work for trolltech ?`
`18:02.32`	`zecke`	`rxr: no, if they would move their office away from adlershof I probably would`
`18:02.48`	`zecke`	`rxr: I'm just a stupid student working part time at gmit-gmbh.de`
`18:02.49`	`J-23`	`gcb77: 10.2, but it doesn't work... i try to build it from sources.`
`18:03.36`	`gcb77`	`J-23: The MokoMakefile works... theres a page on the wiki with workarounds`
`18:03.55`	`J-23`	`I haven't MTN and I must install it :p`
`18:04.08`	`J-23`	`ah...`
`18:04.27`	`rxr`	`zecke: haha, yeah - I also love our current office in the center of berlin :-)`
`18:04.35`	`ferric`	`can't fnd dfu-util?`
`18:04.51`	`gcb77`	`J-23: which MTN version are you trying to install?`
`18:05.35`	`J-23`	`0.36`
`18:05.42`	`zecke`	`yeah compare hackescher markt to adlershof :}`
`18:06.27`	`kristian-m`	`zecke anything else to do after setting the SRC_URIs? - remove the svn-dir?`
`18:06.48`	`gcb77`	`J-23: looks like I found a 0.35 suse rpm that worked`
`18:07.05`	`J-23`	`I'm compiling it now...`
`18:07.14`	`zecke`	`kristian-m: you can bump the PR to force a recheckout, or use bitbake -b the/webkitfile.bb -cfetch -f`
`18:07.52`	`J-23`	`it's in repos...`
`18:07.57`	`kristian-m`	`zecke thanks`
`18:07.58`	`J-23`	`i have tried only mtn...`
`18:08.24`	`J-23`	`and it's named "monotone" in repos...`
`18:08.49`	`CM`	`kristian-m: You can do a make clean-package-webkit-gtk too`
`18:10.28`	`kristian-m`	`CM thanks, but i'm not using mokomakefile here`
`18:11.09`	`J-23`	`I need to download sources from SVN to build OpenMoko?`
`18:12.29`	`zecke`	`J-23: it depends. For app development on my desktop I just build the sources from the o-hand and OpenMoko svn`
`18:12.42`	`J-23`	`MomoMakefile downloads sources, it works.`
`18:16.50`	`ScaredyCat`	`CM: did that rev work for you?`
`18:17.18`	`J-23`	`Moko*`
`18:18.12`	`CM`	`ScaredyCat: It has been compiling for about 15 minutes.. So it's promising at least :)`
`18:18.58`	`*** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix)`
`18:18.59`	`ScaredyCat`	`:)`
`18:28.02`	`*** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178083100.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`18:29.45`	`zecke`	`ToT of webkit should compile again`
`18:30.19`	`*** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com)`
`18:30.41`	`*** join/#openmoko weez (n=weez@rrcs-24-173-249-242.sw.biz.rr.com)`
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`18:36.02`	`*** part/#openmoko IRC (n=ruimorei@87-196-125-53.net.novis.pt)`
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`18:36.42`	`mcmops`	`are there known problems with QEMU and gcc 4.x / SUSE 10.2?`
`18:37.25`	`*** join/#openmoko speerschleuder (n=speersch@p57B2680D.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:39.23`	`anrp`	`qemu and gcc4 dislike each other`
`18:43.38`	`*** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[Away (n=Brescia@adsl-4-177.37-151.net24.it)`
`18:43.48`	`mcmops`	`someb. with experience w. SuSE10.2 QEMU (included in distro) ... is there a chance to get it run with openmoko?`
`18:44.07`	`*** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo76@host81-155-111-199.range81-155.btcentralplus.com)`
`18:44.44`	`*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485D19C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:44.56`	`speerschleuder`	`hallo pH5`
`18:45.09`	`pH5`	`hi speerschleuder`
`18:45.57`	`*** join/#openmoko gcb77_ (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
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`18:48.21`	`ScaredyCat`	`CM: are you getting 'QA' Errors?`
`18:49.54`	`ScaredyCat`	`ERROR: QA issue: <some file here> failed sanity test (reference to workdir or installed)`
`18:52.29`	`J-23`	`Good night!`
`18:53.00`	`*** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl)`
`18:54.34`	`sagacis`	`OK, so I installed minimo, but I just get a blank white window when I launch. I've tried with "minimo" and "minimo http://google.com"`
`18:55.00`	`kristian-m`	`sagacis try xrandr -o 1`
`18:55.10`	`sagacis`	`k`
`18:55.47`	`ixs`	`mhm. I guess everyone and his dog already asked, but is OE not building gcc-cross-initial-4.1.2-r4 a known problem?`
`18:56.48`	`*** join/#openmoko Cairdazar (n=Cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to)`
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`19:00.20`	`jipi`	`hi folks, can anyone tell me whether the debug board pinouts are public or not? becos I have spent 2 weeks searching for them.`
`19:01.21`	`sagacis`	`kristian-m: Thanks! Now I got it working. Can I get rid of the keyboard for reading purpsoes?`
`19:01.30`	`Jiten`	`mcmops: the qemu that comes with distributions only supports the main processor of neo, none of the other devices. You can run openmoko with that but for proper emulation you need qemu from openmoko team.`
`19:01.38`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Francisco]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Chicago]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Madrid]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Shadowjack]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Moscow]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]]`
`19:02.17`	`kristian-m`	`jipi there should be an image with pin description somewhere. - the debugboard only uses jtag - but there are other thing connected to the flex-cable on the neo side.`
`19:02.17`	`Jiten`	`mcmops: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU`
`19:02.43`	`CM`	`ScaredyCat: Didn't see if I did.. Was busy cleaning the apartment`
`19:02.50`	`kristian-m`	`sagacis you can diable it the same way you enabled it or try killall openmoko-keyboard`
`19:02.53`	`CM`	`Some friends comming over now`
`19:03.00`	`ScaredyCat`	`pfft...`
`19:03.02`	`ScaredyCat`	`you lie..`
`19:03.06`	`CM`	`Hehe`
`19:03.07`	`ScaredyCat`	`you have no friends...`
`19:03.12`	`ScaredyCat`	`you're here all the time`
`19:03.13`	`sagacis`	`Who's quick at scripts?`
`19:03.16`	`ScaredyCat`	`:P`
`19:03.25`	`CM`	`ScaredyCat: Right back at ya! :-P`
`19:03.32`	`ScaredyCat`	`oh so true`
`19:03.33`	`ScaredyCat`	`:)`
`19:04.09`	`ScaredyCat`	`4519 of 4560`
`19:04.09`	`*** join/#openmoko weez (n=weez@rrcs-24-173-249-242.sw.biz.rr.com)`
`19:04.13`	`*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)`
`19:04.29`	`parag0n`	`jipi, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#Debug_Connector`
`19:04.30`	`mcmops`	`Jiten: thanks saw link - but 10.2 ships whith gcc 4.1 so i'm unable to build it ...?`
`19:04.54`	`*** join/#openmoko santacalus666 (n=Miranda@213.145.101.2)`
`19:04.54`	`parag0n`	`that was unecessarily well hidden on the wiki`
`19:05.39`	`ScaredyCat`	`CM: I'm saving o a slower one :(`
`19:05.49`	`Jiten`	`mcmops: well, the only option that I can see is somehow get gcc 3.x installed and use that.`
`19:05.57`	`ScaredyCat`	`NOTE: build 200708181931: completed`
`19:06.09`	`Jiten`	`gcc 4 and gcc 3 coexist on my debian etch installation very nicely.`
`19:06.09`	`mcmops`	`Jiten: ..:-<<<<`
`19:06.36`	`Jiten`	`I didn't even have to use any special tricks.`
`19:06.39`	`*** join/#openmoko iac_ (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`19:06.51`	`*** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f048002002.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`19:06.58`	`roh`	`jipi http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/009480.html`
`19:07.03`	`ScaredyCat`	`suse 10.2 doesn;t have 3 in its repositories`
`19:07.27`	`mcmops`	`Jiten: sorry !!`
`19:07.28`	`Jiten`	`ScaredyCat: ok, I could understand having 4 as the default but ...`
`19:07.52`	`Jiten`	`mcmops: why are you apologizing to me?`
`19:07.53`	`ScaredyCat`	`yes, me too... but there's no option ...`
`19:08.56`	`Jiten`	`mcmops: I guess there might be some third party packages available somewhere. If not, you'll have to compile gcc 3 yourself.`
`19:09.11`	`anrp`	`4 has been stable for a while`
`19:09.19`	`anrp`	`qemu is a more esoteric (but useful) package`
`19:10.05`	`Jiten`	`of course you can always consider switching distro too but that's a quite radical move :)`
`19:10.52`	`jipi`	`roh: thanks for your info! another thing. what's j2 and j3?`
`19:10.55`	`ScaredyCat`	`yeah, just buy a neo...`
`19:11.55`	`rxr`	`once can patch qemu to build and work with gcc-4.x`
`19:12.13`	`mcmops`	`i'll try to get the qemu runnung with gcc 4.1 - if it do not work - i'll try an other machine`
`19:12.27`	`rxr`	`http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/package/emulators/qemu/`
`19:12.28`	`anrp`	`yeah patches are out`
`19:12.33`	`anrp`	`not in mainline yet tho`
`19:12.50`	`*** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k963.webspeed.dk)`
`19:18.03`	`roh`	`jipi J2 has vcc 3.3V on one pin and J3 gnd on one`
`19:18.12`	`roh`	`the other pins of J2 and J3 are NC`
`19:18.45`	`roh`	`J4 is only a 90 ohm resistor via layout to measure if the pcb was manuf. right`
`19:20.32`	`roh`	`jipi i updated https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2`
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`19:24.39`	`jipi`	`roh: on the debug board v2, there are some unmounted pads such as R47,R50, R51 and R52, C4, & C5 etc.. what a re those intended for?`
`19:25.12`	`sagacis`	`later`
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`19:27.59`	`jipi`	`roh: which means if i want to pull out the jtag/uart signals from my neo, i cannot do it from the debug board? the debug board's J1 and J10 is used for debugging other boards?`
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`19:30.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`roh: Is the current sensor resistor (chgcur) connected in a way that it provides no information on discharge current? The ADC reading is _Very_ noisy, especially on discharge. Is it merely random on discharge?`
`19:33.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`Also, is the can on the PMU chip soldered down, or does the top open?`
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`19:44.44`	`roh`	`jipi J1 and J10 are in parallel to the port going to the moko. so you can tap the there for measuring too`
`19:45.21`	`roh`	`SpeedEvil sorry.. no clue.. i will have to look that up`
`19:45.38`	`SpeedEvil`	`K, not urgent, only wondering if you happened to know.`
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`19:46.37`	`roh`	`the tin box above the AP PMU etc is soldered down and has a openable top on some phones.`
`19:47.06`	`roh`	`the plan is to keep it openable for all but i think there was some production shortage which generated some soldered down ones`
`19:48.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`Fair enough. I'm just trying to work out why there is a large standby current.`
`19:49.05`	`*** part/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea)`
`19:49.36`	`roh`	`SpeedEvil why? because no powermanagement happens at all`
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`19:51.10`	`mcmops`	`qemu and SuSE 10.2 is a little like to shimmy from one problem to a new one I'll stop that try`
`19:52.34`	`mcmops`	`new question: anybody there developing openmoko and/under/with SuSE 10.2 ?`
`19:53.05`	`*** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea)`
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`19:56.40`	`gcb77_`	`mcmops: I use the MokoMakefile under opensuse 10.2`
`19:58.19`	`cayco_`	`hi! Anyone had problem with common/linux_list.h? More on: http://pastebin.ca/662485`
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`19:59.34`	`jipi`	`roh: thanks! i'll try that out.`
`20:00.10`	`mcmops`	`gcb77_: with emulation?`
`20:01.36`	`cayco_`	`i've seen it on a gsmd-dev list but there was no solution`
`20:01.53`	`*** join/#openmoko cayco_ (n=cayco@aaow146.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`20:02.11`	`cayco_`	`it is fresh development env`
`20:03.52`	`*** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@p54977A23.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:04.16`	`cayco_`	`anyone alive? ;)`
`20:04.42`	`mcmops`	`gcb77_: did u manage it with the wiki#mokomakefile instructions? do u have some additional infos?`
`20:06.44`	`*** join/#openmoko shackan (n=frob@host166-136-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
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`20:09.46`	`*** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@stjhnbsu84w-14216645094.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net)`
`20:11.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`roh: basically - also to make it easy for me to confirm when I've got PM stuff right.`
`20:14.44`	`gcb77_`	`mcmops: there's a page on the wiki with workarounds`
`20:15.05`	`mrface`	I keep running into "No rule to make target `install'" with bitbake, do I need to add "install" to my makefile?
`20:15.26`	`*** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-005.eplus-online.de)`
`20:17.41`	`pH5`	`mrface: if you want to install your program to package it, yes. otherwise you can add an empty do_install() {} function to your .bb, but that would result in empty packages.`
`20:18.25`	`mrface`	`but it would produce binaries?`
`20:19.19`	`mrface`	`pH5: but I can take care of install stuff in that function in my recipe? I'm pulling from CVS and it's not my source so I can't change the makefile`
`20:19.52`	`roh`	`uh.. sh*t`
`20:20.12`	`mrface`	`roh: oh that's bad`
`20:20.34`	`roh`	`its not mine.. n.p. .. and its only 10:20 pm .. so ive even got time to shower i think`
`20:20.54`	`mrface`	`good`
`20:21.24`	`mrface`	`speaking of parties, I should get back to the burning man work party...`
`20:23.17`	`mcmops`	`gcb77_: can u help me to find the page?`
`20:24.05`	`mcmops`	`gcb77_: do you use an emulator?`
`20:32.31`	`gcb77_`	`mcmops: I do use the emulator, but I can't log into it`
`20:32.41`	`gcb77_`	`the gadgetfs driver doesnt work`
`20:34.05`	`gcb77_`	`mcmops: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile#openSUSE_10.2_workarounds`
`20:42.19`	`mcmops`	`gcb77_: thanks got it !! ...the wiki search finds - nothing no suse no opensuse no openSUSE no 10.2...strange...`
`20:43.29`	`*** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-001.eplus-online.de)`
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`20:45.35`	`*** join/#openmoko Risto (n=Risto@p508CED5C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:45.41`	`gcb77_`	`tip: google search for: opensuse site:wiki.openmoko.org`
`20:46.42`	`mcmops`	`...but i thought in the wiki i find wiki pages ?`
`20:47.38`	`gcb77_`	`true... the workarounds are blocks in the same page, so the wiki search doesnt find it`
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`20:49.37`	`mcmops`	`strange again - found information about qemu an suse 10.2 - thanks ! - and by -`
`20:54.28`	`*** join/#openmoko weez (n=weez@rrcs-24-173-249-242.sw.biz.rr.com)`
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`21:01.19`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Arizona]] [[Wishlist:Extension_Framework]] [[Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Hardware]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Francisco]] [[User:Michaelshiloh]]`
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`21:42.33`	`ZerothCloned`	`hey all`
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`22:12.03`	`rwhitby`	`morning`
`22:12.27`	`anrp`	`evening!`
`22:16.05`	`cras1`	`night`
`22:16.17`	`cras1`	`:)`
`22:16.57`	`CM`	`~ugt`
`22:16.58`	`apt`	`rumour has it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html`
`22:17.22`	`CM`	`So good morning :-D`
`22:17.40`	`rwhitby`	`no announcement from mickeyl?`
`22:18.25`	`CM`	`Not that I know of`
`22:18.55`	`rwhitby`	`I guess it's not actually sunday there yet.`
`22:19.30`	`*** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171)`
`22:20.51`	`CM`	`It is, but only for 19 minutes so far`
`22:21.39`	`rwhitby`	`ah, right - he's +1`
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`22:57.07`	`aevin`	`rwhitby: I've been offline for over a week. what kind of announcement are you awaiting from mickey?`
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`23:01.05`	`shadoknight`	`hi all`
`23:01.14`	`shadoknight`	`anyone here have (recent) experience building qemu?`
`23:01.27`	`shadoknight`	`I'm having a qemu build problem and would appreciate some advice...`
`23:01.38`	`aloril`	`(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:Cape_Town]] [[User:Mmontour/HHNotes]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[User:Mmontour]]`
`23:02.46`	`*** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A372B5.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`23:03.00`	`CM`	`shadoknight: Do you have gcc-3.4 installed?`
`23:03.27`	`shadoknight`	`yea - gcc --version has`
`23:03.31`	`shadoknight`	`gcc (GCC) 3.4.6 (Gentoo 3.4.6-r2 p1.5, ssp-3.4.6-1.0, pie-8.7.10)`
`23:03.41`	`CM`	`shadoknight: Ah, gentoo like me`
`23:03.43`	`shadoknight`	`it's complaining about 'unable to find a register to spill...`
`23:03.51`	`shadoknight`	`cm: the only way to go`
`23:03.51`	`shadoknight`	`:)`
`23:03.54`	`*** join/#openmoko Risto (n=Risto@p508CED5C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`23:04.18`	`shadoknight`	`I'm using MokoMakefile, but had the same error when I tried just the qemu build from the wiki instructions`
`23:04.19`	`CM`	`I had to add a ln -s /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/3.4.6/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc /usr/bin/gcc-3.4 or qemu wouldn't find the right gcc version`
`23:04.29`	`shadoknight`	`hmm`
`23:04.44`	`shadoknight`	`I'm not x86_64, but I'll give it a shot`
`23:04.54`	`CM`	`THe qemu makefile tries to find gcc-3.4, but gentoo onlt have one called gcc-3.4.6`
`23:04.55`	`shadoknight`	`though, it's using 'gcc' which is the one with the version string above...`
`23:05.02`	`shadoknight`	`ahh`
`23:05.54`	`shadoknight`	`ok, trying that now ;-)`
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`23:06.12`	`alphaone`	`yay, gmpc is working :-)`
`23:06.16`	`shadoknight`	`cm: thanks.`
`23:06.32`	`alphaone`	`Now I just need a bluetooth AP :-)`
`23:06.52`	`shadoknight`	`alphaone: you can set one up on any machine with bluetooth and bluez`
`23:07.06`	`shadoknight`	`there's instructions somewhere...`
`23:07.46`	`alphaone`	`shadoknight: I know. I need a bt dongle though because I want it stationary in my room.`
`23:08.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`Sigh.`
`23:08.05`	`shadoknight`	`ahh`
`23:08.06`	`shadoknight`	`got it ;-)`
`23:08.32`	`alphaone`	`SpeedEvil: The one in the Neo?`
`23:08.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes.`
`23:09.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`If it could have been, then it lets you plug other stuff in there.`
`23:13.17`	`alphaone`	`hmm`
`23:20.11`	`*** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A372B5.dip.t-dialin.net)`
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`23:21.57`	`rwhitby`	`aevin: 2007.2`
`23:23.21`	`shadoknight`	`rwhitby: hi - thanks for MokoMakefile - it's made things much easier to get started`
`23:23.22`	`shadoknight`	`:)`
`23:23.36`	`shadoknight`	`(yesterday's spew about a build problem not-withsanding)`
`23:24.45`	`*** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com)`
`23:26.03`	`aevin`	`rwhitby: ah, okay. yeah, that'll be interesting.`
`23:26.37`	`*** join/#openmoko tommax (n=tommax@217-133-25-44.b2b.tiscali.it)`
`23:27.22`	`*** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@CPE001057000aad-CM001225d73c82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`23:28.40`	`CM`	`sigh`
`23:29.09`	`CM`	`The latest bitbake fails with parsing errors again.`
`23:29.54`	`*** part/#openmoko Risto (n=Risto@p508CED5C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`23:34.15`	`*** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@static-87-79-68-60.netcologne.de)`
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`23:40.32`	`*** part/#openmoko Maniac_57 (n=rogerman@ip-58-28-197-102.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz)`
`23:42.05`	`chouse`	`pwd`
`23:42.06`	`chouse`	`ls`
`23:43.37`	`*** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com)`
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`23:57.16`	`kristian-m`	`SpeedEvil how is it connected?`
`23:57.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`what?`
`23:58.03`	`kristian-m`	`SpeedEvil the bt-modul`
`23:58.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`Flat panel connector - that looks soldered under the display.`
`23:58.40`	`*** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@user-0cdft28.cable.mindspring.com)`
`23:58.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`it may be a connector - but the display is glued down.`
`23:59.01`	`SpeedEvil`	`So it's not really relevant.`
`23:59.08`	`kristian-m`	`i see`

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