| 00:00.03 | ixs | rwhitby: bitbake clean-package-libgsmd or what? |
| 00:00.07 | rwhitby | the svnnow stuff is not very reliable when your build crosses GMT midnight. |
| 00:00.15 | rwhitby | ixs: make ... |
| 00:00.46 | rwhitby | (which is the same as bitbake -c clean ... with the right environment set up) |
| 00:00.59 | ixs | rwhitby: I'm doing a scratch build without makefile, so I have to rely on the bitbake call |
| 00:02.53 | rwhitby | ixs: any reason why you're not using the mokomakefile? (not a judgement, just interested why) |
| 00:04.19 | ixs | rwhitby: I planned on building .2, which is not supported by mokomakefile AFAIK and as the build installations were kinda slim I thought about familarizing myself with the lowlevel build stuff first... |
| 00:06.00 | ixs | rwhitby: check pastebin.ca/657637 please. It's the error I'm seeing here. note the different timestamps, they are one minute off |
| 00:07.01 | rwhitby | ixs: yep, I saw the same thing - that's a low-level bitbake issue, so nothing I can do. |
| 00:08.43 | ixs | :( |
| 00:09.33 | rwhitby | can you raise a bugzilla on it, noting it as a bitbake problem? |
| 00:09.40 | rwhitby | (it may well go away when we move to .2) |
| 00:10.02 | ixs | will do |
| 00:10.09 | ixs | just got the bugzilla mail. |
| 00:15.53 | ixs | rwhitby: #706 |
| 00:16.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 706 has been created by andreas(AT)bawue.net |
| 00:16.02 | cdbot2 | * * libgsm does not build as timestamped filenames change |
| 00:16.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=706 |
| 00:17.14 | ixs | rwhitby: something else: nslu2 makefile does not really handle the mtn db migrate issue. Would make a nice wishlist item. :D |
| 00:17.47 | rwhitby | ixs: I'm going to create om2007.1 and om2007.2 branches of mokomakefile, it will be fixed there. |
| 00:18.24 | ixs | rwhitby: great. eta? |
| 00:19.15 | rwhitby | ixs: when I get some time outside of my real job. |
| 00:19.24 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:20.04 | ixs | ahh. the pesky real life issue... :-) |
| 00:20.37 | juri_ | theres time when people don't work? i mean, other than sleeping? :) |
| 00:26.18 | anrp | D: |
| 00:26.27 | anrp | some of us do ... various other things |
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| 00:28.38 | ixs | anrp: inconceivable. This has to stop. :D |
| 00:32.09 | juri_ | agreed. comply. resistance is futile. :) |
| 00:32.42 | anrp | but..! |
| 00:35.02 | ixs | anrp: thank you sir, that will be enough. please return to your work. :D |
| 00:36.04 | anrp | i'm telling you, idling is a full time occupation |
| 00:36.11 | ixs | mhm. does .2 make phonecalls? some nice person at the ccc camp said something along the line of "8ball says: ask me again" |
| 00:36.23 | anrp | depends on the phase of the moon |
| 00:36.34 | ixs | anrp: ohh yeah. With all that idling I managed to barely work for my studies. :D |
| 00:37.50 | *** join/#openmoko quicksand (n=cwixon@63.81.161.120) |
| 00:37.54 | ixs | *gaaaak* my plektron disappeared... |
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| 00:40.05 | quicksand | Mornin' all. |
| 00:40.26 | quicksand | Has anyone seen this (while building 2007.2): |
| 00:40.53 | quicksand | QEMU is throwing a segfault while bb is building glibc |
| 00:41.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 707 has been created by mickey(AT)vanille-media.de |
| 00:41.02 | cdbot2 | * * modem/gsmd does not start in a reliable way (if at all) on boot |
| 00:41.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=707 |
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| 00:41.25 | bschrock | ls |
| 00:41.49 | quicksand | OE is set up right, I think, because this is like task no. 269 out of eleventy-billion |
| 00:42.22 | quicksand | Previous tasks completed fine |
| 00:42.24 | rwhitby | quicksand: do the binary locales thingo |
| 00:42.38 | quicksand | rwhitby: the what now? |
| 00:44.31 | rwhitby | put ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in your local.conf file. |
| 00:44.35 | quicksand | I do have ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "1" in local.conf |
| 00:44.35 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D81B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:44.39 | quicksand | Ah ha, oops. |
| 00:44.51 | rwhitby | (and please add this to the mokomakefile wiki page tips section. |
| 00:45.08 | quicksand | I'll try this. If it works I'll definitely update the wiki. |
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| 00:47.09 | rwhitby | quicksand: you're running on a redhat-based distro host? |
| 00:47.26 | quicksand | rwhitby: Ubuntu 7.04, 64-bit |
| 00:47.52 | quicksand | Not using the master makefile or mokomakefile -- just bitbake openmoko-devel-image |
| 00:47.56 | carrar | 64bit cell phone would be nice |
| 00:48.04 | rwhitby | weird - I had thought that work-around was only required on redhat-based distros. |
| 00:48.21 | quicksand | I'll find out later tonight. |
| 00:48.55 | rwhitby | quicksand: you realise that 64-bit means you're gonna get breakage now and again cause OE always seems to break on 64-bit for various reasons (I guess most developers only test on 32-bit) |
| 00:49.08 | quicksand | I was building 2007(.1) successfully via the mokomakefile |
| 00:49.15 | rwhitby | although that's probably getting better these days |
| 00:49.33 | quicksand | (Hat off to you for that, BTW) |
| 00:49.53 | rwhitby | quicksand: building om2007.2 via the nslu2-linux makefile would have put the work-around in for you automatically ;-) |
| 00:50.15 | quicksand | Heh. Figures. That's what I get for trying to learn how things work. |
| 00:50.39 | quicksand | I'm diving into OE without looking for rocks. |
| 00:50.46 | ixs | rwhitby: what about adding a setarch call when on 64bit? |
| 00:51.29 | ixs | rwhitby: for what's it worth, ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION=1 does work without problems on the local fedora 7 installation |
| 00:51.35 | rwhitby | ixs: I have no idea what you're talking about, having never had a 64-bit machine |
| 00:53.34 | ixs | rwhitby: ohkay. There's a binary, called setarch. It will do some magic stuff to make the following binary think it's on a different architecture. |
| 00:53.37 | ixs | [root@sysiphus2 ~]# uname -smpio |
| 00:53.39 | ixs | Linux x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 00:53.44 | ixs | [root@sysiphus2 ~]# setarch i386 uname -smpio |
| 00:53.46 | ixs | Linux i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux |
| 00:53.49 | ixs | [root@sysiphus2 ~]# |
| 00:54.09 | juri_ | rwhitby: i'm on a 64bit machine, with a 64bit kernel, and a 32bit userspace. everything breaks here. ;) |
| 00:54.14 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Reality_check_reminder]] [[Wish_List]] [[Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] |
| 00:54.26 | rwhitby | ixs: so someone could go "setarch i386 make ..." ? |
| 00:54.38 | ixs | just put a setarch i386 bitbake into the makefile and the 64bit problems will disappear as the buildscript thinks it's being run on a real ia32 machine and there's no crap like /lib64 or so being used |
| 00:55.15 | ixs | rwhitby: I never tried setarch on make but I've been using it on mock (the fedora autobuilder) with good results. |
| 00:55.28 | ixs | so yes, it should basically work with setarch i386 make whatever |
| 00:55.58 | rwhitby | and setarch aint gonna be on all machines, so I can't really put it unconditionally in the makefile, and testing when it is required may be complex too |
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| 00:57.46 | ixs | uname -m | grep -q x86_64 |
| 00:57.51 | ixs | test $? -eq 0 |
| 00:57.55 | ixs | this should be enough. |
| 00:58.41 | ixs | okay, might be problematic for ppc64, so just grepping for 64 might be better |
| 00:59.32 | bschrock | Anyone know where I can get some block diagram of how the audio is wired and what each of the doohickys are in alsamixer? |
| 01:00.01 | quicksand | bschrock: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem |
| 01:00.12 | bschrock | TY! |
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| 01:03.05 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 01:03.24 | mellon_ | dude, you don't have yours yet? wow. Anyway, that's really good news! |
| 01:04.14 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: when order? |
| 01:05.11 | ixs | cesarb: well, the order process is a bit strange. I received the payment and traking notes and afterwards the mail to please confirm whether I still want the device as it's not usable right now... WTF? |
| 01:05.49 | ixs | this all after I received a mail from a human to please order the device anew as the shipping cannot be changed. 5mins later I get another amail that the shipping has been changed... |
| 01:05.58 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: the order confirmation email is from 13-07 (exactly one month...) |
| 01:06.02 | ixs | but, the thing arrived... |
| 01:06.44 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 01:06.44 | cesarb | mellon_: I think I managed to get exactly after the line between the first 1000 phones and the next batch... |
| 01:06.55 | mellon_ | Ouch. |
| 01:07.13 | quicksand | At least you are on the right side of the line. |
| 01:07.52 | cesarb | mellon_: I think (looking at the P1 owners wiki page) mine was like some 8 phones after the dividing line :D |
| 01:08.36 | mellon_ | Oh well. It's a lousy phone anyway - you can't even make calls on it... |
| 01:08.38 | mellon_ | ;') |
| 01:08.52 | ixs | how useful. standing up makes the plektron fall down. yay. found it. :D |
| 01:09.08 | cesarb | mellon_: being able to make calls on it is just to avoid having to carry another gadget |
| 01:09.11 | ixs | cesarb: customs in germany was something like 77EUR and ups collected it at the door |
| 01:09.25 | mellon_ | cesarb: I think you may be right... :') |
| 01:09.57 | cesarb | ixs: I suppose customs here will be 60%, if I read all the pages correctly... I just have no clue HOW will it be collected (I hope they just give me a DARF form) |
| 01:10.05 | quicksand | If it worked out-of-the-box what good would it do for our nerd-martyr credibility? None, I say. |
| 01:10.12 | cesarb | (ok, DARF form was as bad as PIN number) |
| 01:10.25 | cesarb | quicksand: amen |
| 01:10.43 | mellon_ | Wow, someone's done a bluetooth card for the Apple ][... |
| 01:11.14 | don-o | mellon_: wow |
| 01:11.15 | cesarb | quicksand: I managed to build mokomakefile in two different roundabout ways already (using /bin/dash as /bin/sh and using eabi instead of oabi), making patches in both cases, so I guess I'm covered :D |
| 01:11.27 | cesarb | mellon_: wow |
| 01:11.37 | ixs | cesarb: where you are at? |
| 01:11.43 | cesarb | ixs: Brazil |
| 01:11.48 | quicksand | cesarb: Wow. At least you're putting the waiting time to good use. I did diddly-squat. |
| 01:12.04 | mellon_ | It's pretty cool - means we can tap into the thriving Apple ][ market with some excellent open source synchronization tools for Apple DOS. |
| 01:12.09 | ixs | cesarb: mhm. dunno. germany has a no customs for computer parts, just vat tax which comes down to 19% |
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| 01:13.17 | cesarb | ixs: I think I will have to pay no tax on it other than the import tax (it's a simplified import tax for goods sent by mail up to a certain value) |
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| 02:21.42 | happycube | ahhh... ssh'd to my moko via bluetooth |
| 02:22.13 | ashnazg | i just booted for the first time :) |
| 02:22.34 | happycube | too bad dropbear can't support sshfs |
| 02:25.00 | happycube | looks like if one gets sftp-server from openssh it might work though... :) |
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| 02:30.22 | happycube | bah openssh configure is broken... ill look at that later |
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| 02:33.41 | SpeedEvil | happycube: scp |
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| 02:54.35 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[User:Ashnazg]] |
| 02:54.59 | ashnazg | hehe... it's watching me... |
| 02:59.38 | happycube | yeah scp'd work... but sshfs is just so much fun |
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| 03:02.31 | pjz | counter |
| 03:02.31 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1800;252) |
| 03:06.50 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 03:06.54 | Sargun | hey hey |
| 03:09.27 | Sargun | WiFi! |
| 03:09.50 | Sargun | This will be the first time in over 4 years I'll have a phone without a keyboard. |
| 03:09.59 | Sargun | and go back to using crappy GSM |
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| 03:28.41 | DukeOfURL | hello |
| 03:32.47 | Sargun | Hey hey. |
| 03:40.56 | rwhitby | happycube: use openssh 4.6p1 which I added recently |
| 03:41.00 | rwhitby | I vote we put openssh in there instead of dropbear in any case. |
| 03:42.10 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 03:42.38 | DukeOfURL | Just bought a USB hub. It says there is 500ma on each port. |
| 03:43.01 | DukeOfURL | Neo says it is in mode "fast_cccv" at 3773 |
| 03:45.47 | DukeOfURL | file /sys/bus/i2c/devices/0-0008/uevent has only root write ppermission. Is this a hardware interface? |
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| 04:08.34 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03rwhitby 07OM-2007.2 * r113 10mokomakefile/: Branched for OM-2007.2 support |
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| 04:18.53 | sid | Does does a phone come out that is all free software and uses openmoko? |
| 04:19.08 | sid | Is there a date? what carrier will use it? specs of phone etc? |
| 04:19.17 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 04:19.18 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) |
| 04:19.26 | sid | thanks |
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| 04:19.31 | SpeedEvil | The neo1973 is the first phone - no carriers yet |
| 04:19.35 | SpeedEvil | any GSM network |
| 04:20.11 | rwhitby | we don't need no stinkin carriers |
| 04:20.27 | sid | So right now, you can't hook the phone up to a phone network? |
| 04:20.31 | linux_galore | just really long bits of string |
| 04:20.40 | rwhitby | sid: any GSM network. |
| 04:20.59 | linux_galore | rwhitby: not true |
| 04:21.00 | sid | rwhitby: Will carriers let you hook it up to their GSM network? |
| 04:21.14 | sid | ie, Verizon, ATT, Qwest, etc (the 3 biggest telecoms in USA) |
| 04:21.17 | linux_galore | rwhitby: some GSM networks now have a hybrid setup |
| 04:21.18 | rwhitby | ok, "most" GSM networks. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to get a restrictive contract from a carrier to use a GSM phone. |
| 04:21.35 | doc|home | sid generally they don't know it's a different phone |
| 04:21.52 | doc|home | some lock it to devices but you can transfer numbers to others there, can't you? |
| 04:21.56 | sid | doc|home: So people are using the phone right now throughout the world? |
| 04:22.04 | doc|home | let them compete on being less restrictive :) |
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| 04:22.12 | sid | doc|home: no idea, that's why I came in here. |
| 04:22.14 | rwhitby | linux_galore: have we found a GSM network outside of the USA which won't take the Neo? |
| 04:22.38 | linux_galore | rwhitby: yes NextG by Telstra here in AU |
| 04:22.43 | doc|home | sid: it's very much in development now. I'd suggest waiting until oct unless you want to develop. You'll get a better phone too |
| 04:22.59 | rwhitby | linux_galore: I don't consider NextG to be GSM. |
| 04:23.00 | doc|home | sid gta02 comes with wifi and a faster proc, amongst other things |
| 04:23.01 | linux_galore | rwhitby: Telstra use 800Mhz CDMA for data |
| 04:23.24 | rwhitby | If I can't use GSM voice and GPRS data, then I don't call it a GSM network :-) |
| 04:23.55 | sid | doc|home: So stores will sell it in October? |
| 04:23.59 | linux_galore | rwhitby: everyone will have to swap to CDMA for data because GSM has a bottle neck problem |
| 04:24.00 | sid | physical stores |
| 04:24.07 | rwhitby | linux_galore: Even Telstra don't call it their GSM network. |
| 04:24.10 | doc|home | sid: i don't know to be honest. Anyone got an answer to that? |
| 04:24.20 | doc|home | sid where are you? |
| 04:24.25 | rwhitby | sid: I doubt it. |
| 04:24.54 | rwhitby | Distribution deals usually require working hardware and software, and then some time *after* that to negotiate the arrangements. |
| 04:24.55 | linux_galore | rwhitby: yes, they cal it nextg because its a hybrid network |
| 04:25.12 | sid | doc|home: New York |
| 04:25.23 | rwhitby | linux_galore: right. So the Neo works on the GSM networks in Australia, and does not work on the Hybrid networks. |
| 04:25.27 | sid | I've never owned a phone, I'm a GNU/Linux user |
| 04:25.40 | sid | I'd like this to be my first phone, but I want it to work and hook up to the network easily without hassle. |
| 04:25.43 | linux_galore | rwhitby: yes, but Telsta are the biggest |
| 04:25.52 | rwhitby | and the worst :-) |
| 04:26.11 | linux_galore | rwhitby: not if your in the country, no data if your not on telsta |
| 04:26.20 | doc|home | sid: I don't know what mobile telcos are like there. Can you buy sim cards on their own? |
| 04:26.27 | rwhitby | linux_galore: so move to the city ;-) |
| 04:26.31 | sid | doc|home: They're all evil. |
| 04:26.38 | sid | anti-competitive, anti-progressive |
| 04:26.55 | sid | They get government subsidies to do things like invest in fiber infrastructure, and they just keep the money and do nothing. |
| 04:27.07 | linux_galore | hmm iPhone has been cracked by the looks, now you can run it on any network |
| 04:27.19 | sid | It's been like this for the last century.(them being monopolistic/evil/anti-competitive) |
| 04:27.22 | linux_galore | some weird SIM card hack |
| 04:27.43 | rwhitby | linux_galore: cool - got a URL? |
| 04:27.45 | doc|home | sid: ok, well, I'd suggest you go into some stores and ask, or google :/ If you can use a sim card on any phone on any of them, they should work with the neo |
| 04:28.03 | doc|home | unless anyone here is from NY and can answer sid's question? |
| 04:29.52 | linux_galore | rwhitby: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/breaking/iphone-100-unlocked-using-turbo-sim-card-289148.php |
| 04:30.51 | linux_galore | rwhitby: the Meizu M8 might be a better buy though |
| 04:31.05 | linux_galore | due out this december |
| 04:31.31 | linux_galore | http://www.meizume.com/showthread.php?t=720 |
| 04:31.34 | sid | Will the final product have a camera? |
| 04:31.59 | linux_galore | sid: nope, but you can always add one because the OM can host devices |
| 04:32.04 | doc|home | sid: nope, but I had a camera on my last phone and used it zero times. |
| 04:32.44 | doc|home | if you want a camera, get a camera. You'll get pictures you can actually look at, unlike those crappy <1mp phone cameras :) |
| 04:32.50 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 04:33.11 | sid | Why not use Atheros 5221 chipset, that runs openhal |
| 04:33.26 | sid | That is the best working chipset for openhal, iirc |
| 04:35.44 | linux_galore | sid: power and is there a portable version |
| 04:36.21 | linux_galore | I think there are other issues like you have to change the whole setup with some chips |
| 04:37.05 | linux_galore | ie totally different cpu family |
| 04:37.13 | happycube | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:38.30 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 04:38.30 | happycube | so you can write a relatively simple driver and have it be GPL and absolutely in the clear |
| 04:38.33 | happycube | (fcc-wise) |
| 04:39.25 | linux_galore | I think there was a debate on this before and the issue was they would have to change the whole chipset |
| 04:39.34 | linux_galore | very $$$ |
| 04:40.53 | sid | linux_galore: yea, you're probably right |
| 04:41.13 | sid | How much power does this thing suck up? it seems like it had a lot of devices, and a big color lcd etc |
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| 04:48.56 | linux_galore | well the Atheros 6000 is still on the table |
| 04:49.01 | linux_galore | from what i can see |
| 04:49.58 | SpeedEvil | lots - 3 hours of life worst case |
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| 04:54.55 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:PTT]] [[Wishlist:Auto_Align_Map]] [[Wishlist_-_Hardware:_Digital_compass]] [[Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] [[P1_Owners]] |
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| 05:01.49 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03rwhitby 07OM-2007.2 * r114 10mokomakefile/patches/ (8 files in 6 dirs): Remove patches that are now obsolete in 2007.2 |
| 05:07.15 | blindcoder | moin |
| 05:07.37 | sssSCH | seas |
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| 05:24.04 | linux_galore | not a good week for Nokia http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6945593.stm |
| 05:27.14 | calamous | How much do you think that battery recall will cost em? |
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| 05:32.52 | linux_galore | 43 million batteries, the batteries themselves wont cost them a dime because the manufacturer will be stuck with that but the logistics will cost a bit |
| 05:33.34 | linux_galore | US$5 per battery easy |
| 05:37.33 | cjb_ie | they'll probably get the mfr to cover that too. |
| 05:38.14 | linux_galore | Matsushita isnt that the parent company for Panasonic |
| 05:38.26 | cjb_ie | believe so |
| 05:39.19 | linux_galore | serves them right for buying Panasonic batteries heh |
| 05:40.04 | linux_galore | The company I work for used to use Panasonic batteries, we found they didnt last though so swapped to Duracell |
| 05:40.25 | cjb_ie | doc|home: there are some surprisingly good phone cameras now, 3MP+... though the optics still leave something to be desired |
| 05:40.53 | doc|home | yeah, on a sensor that size it's bound to be a bit .... lacking |
| 05:41.02 | doc|home | by the way, mind if I ask what ie stands for? |
| 05:41.03 | linux_galore | cjb_ie: Casio now sell a compact camera with a mobile phone built in\ |
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| 05:41.13 | cjb_ie | doc|home: ireland |
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| 05:41.23 | jr0m | greets. |
| 05:41.53 | doc|home | cjb_ie: from Ireland myself, bit past your bedtime, isn't it? :) |
| 05:42.14 | cjb_ie | past my bedtime? i just woke up. |
| 05:42.20 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 05:42.25 | doc|home | :) |
| 05:42.27 | cjb_ie | 6:42am here |
| 05:42.35 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r115 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/ (openmoko-1004/ openmoko-1146/): Removed obsolete patches |
| 05:42.37 | doc|home | man, that's way too early to be out of bed |
| 05:42.46 | cjb_ie | didn't say i was out of bed :p |
| 05:43.09 | doc|home | hehe |
| 05:43.13 | doc|home | a dub? |
| 05:43.25 | cjb_ie | nah, cark bai |
| 05:43.32 | doc|home | sorry 'bout that :) |
| 05:43.42 | doc|home | <- waterford |
| 05:43.44 | doc|home | but in .ca |
| 05:43.46 | cjb_ie | though i'm really dutch. |
| 05:44.05 | linux_galore | Casio camera with a mobile phone (not sold outside of Korea) http://www.intomobile.com/2007/05/23/casio-w53ca-exilim-mobile-phone-launched-look-out-sony-ericsson-cybershot.html |
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| 05:44.09 | cjb_ie | ah, i went to school in waterford |
| 05:44.23 | doc|home | me too, again, sorry 'bout that :| |
| 05:44.39 | cjb_ie | ah it was grand |
| 05:44.46 | doc|home | where'd you go? |
| 05:45.01 | cjb_ie | newtown |
| 05:45.01 | cjb_ie | yourself? |
| 05:45.08 | doc|home | St. Paul's, but I should add that I'm not a scumbag |
| 05:45.42 | cjb_ie | dunno it, but i didn't leave school grounds much - spent most of my spare time in the computer room |
| 05:45.53 | cjb_ie | <-- life long geek |
| 05:45.58 | doc|home | linux_galore: that looks more like a camera than a phone :) |
| 05:46.03 | doc|home | hehe |
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| 05:47.44 | doc|home | back in a bit, food time |
| 05:48.30 | cjb_ie | ooh, a camera phone that actually focuses |
| 05:49.32 | linux_galore | yeah samsung have a unit with optical zoom |
| 05:49.41 | linux_galore | 10MP too |
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| 05:51.53 | linux_galore | http://www.cameraphonereport.com/2006/10/samsungs_ten_me.html |
| 05:52.47 | linux_galore | I would say within two years a camera phone without optical zoom will be a budget bin unit |
| 05:54.54 | Tronic | The current camera phones are quite dissapointing. |
| 05:55.14 | Tronic | Many cameras scan the image line by line, not a frame at a time. |
| 05:55.27 | Tronic | Which means that if anything moves, the image will be highly distorted. |
| 05:56.04 | Tronic | There are cameras with very bad autofocusing, too. |
| 05:56.09 | linux_galore | Tronic: I havent had too many issues with my N95 |
| 05:56.51 | linux_galore | I must admit though a DSLR is still the way to go |
| 05:56.54 | Tronic | ... and in general, the image quality is still not that good. Especially colors are far off, probably due to insufficient filtering (in order to reduce the noise in bad lighting conditions). |
| 05:57.07 | linux_galore | what I need is a Nikon D200 with a phone heh |
| 05:57.56 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A70d8.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 05:58.42 | linux_galore | plug Nikon into OM.....perfect |
| 06:01.06 | linux_galore | I was just wondering if you could get a camera with GPS built in to tag images and bugger me there are a few units available |
| 06:01.42 | cjb_ie | yup, they're generally mindbuggeringly expensive though. |
| 06:01.54 | cjb_ie | however, post-processing solutions exist |
| 06:02.29 | cjb_ie | take a photo of your GPS to figure out the difference between camera time and GPS time |
| 06:02.44 | cjb_ie | and then correlate GPS log with image timestamps |
| 06:03.47 | cjb_ie | i'm sure (more than) one of the openstreetmap guys has scripts to geocode exif data |
| 06:03.58 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07F0C8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:04.15 | cjb_ie | and JOSM will show the relevant picture to a given point on your GPS trace. |
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| 06:06.13 | cjb_ie | also, rumour has it some bluetooth cameras with suitable firmware will talk to bluetooth GPSes and give the functionality you describe - but i'm not aware of any actual examples |
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| 06:24.51 | cjb_ie | linux_galore: might i suggest #osm and/or #geo on oftc? |
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| 06:37.50 | ScaredyCat | rwhitby: does the om..20007.2 makefile make use of multi processor/cores? |
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| 06:54.55 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Carriers]] [[P1_Owners]] |
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| 06:59.09 | ynezz | ScaredyCat: you can specify that in your OE config |
| 06:59.31 | ScaredyCat | same format as local.conf for .1 ? |
| 06:59.43 | ynezz | it's OE so I think so :) |
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| 07:24.55 | ScaredyCat | seems to have totally ignored inherit |
| 07:28.31 | Dmitry_Platonov | That's real competitor for neo1973: http://glofiish.com/products/Communication/X500+.php |
| 07:29.59 | ScaredyCat | that's about as open as my bank's safe |
| 07:30.22 | Dmitry_Platonov | how many people care about openness? |
| 07:30.30 | ScaredyCat | everyone here? |
| 07:30.36 | ScaredyCat | 313 so far |
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| 07:30.59 | ScaredyCat | 314 |
| 07:31.40 | Dmitry_Platonov | Not enough for commercial success. |
| 07:31.47 | ScaredyCat | there are 1001 windows mobiles out there already Dmitry_Platonov.... |
| 07:32.15 | ScaredyCat | well, this is the developer preview, nothng more... |
| 07:32.31 | Dmitry_Platonov | ScaredyCat, this one is very close in hardware to neo. |
| 07:32.40 | ScaredyCat | it doesn't matter... |
| 07:33.01 | ScaredyCat | there's a huge %age of people that will always buy a windows mobile device |
| 07:33.18 | ScaredyCat | the use windows, they want outlook integration etc |
| 07:33.28 | Placid | mornin' |
| 07:33.31 | ScaredyCat | you will never pursuade tham to use anything else... |
| 07:33.36 | ScaredyCat | even the iphone.... |
| 07:33.44 | ScaredyCat | can't break that... |
| 07:33.51 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-177-19.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 07:33.52 | ScaredyCat | mnin Placid |
| 07:34.01 | Dmitry_Platonov | -accelerometers, +edge, +camera, -3D/video accel |
| 07:34.38 | ScaredyCat | the neo doesn't have accs or 3d vid acc |
| 07:34.54 | Dmitry_Platonov | It will. |
| 07:35.04 | ScaredyCat | but it doesn't *now* |
| 07:35.25 | ScaredyCat | it might get a thermonuclear detonator, but until it actually does... |
| 07:36.53 | ScaredyCat | om2007.2 takes forever to build |
| 07:37.29 | ynezz | yep |
| 07:37.53 | ynezz | blame webkit |
| 07:38.22 | Dmitry_Platonov | ScaredyCat, wanna yesterday images? |
| 07:38.41 | ScaredyCat | I'm still building yesturdays :) |
| 07:39.05 | ynezz | :) |
| 07:39.08 | ScaredyCat | it's been running all night and still hasn't completed on a 2x2.4ghz box with 2gb ram |
| 07:39.09 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 07:39.32 | Dmitry_Platonov | First time sure takes long |
| 07:39.52 | ynezz | i'm at 2602/3522 |
| 07:39.56 | ScaredyCat | it's finally building the image now |
| 07:40.09 | ScaredyCat | Running task 3521 of 3522 |
| 07:40.14 | ScaredyCat | rootfs even |
| 07:41.30 | ynezz | Dmitry_Platonov: which images do you mean? I've tried this http://people.openmoko.org/mickey/images/ and they won't boot |
| 07:41.54 | ScaredyCat | NOTE: build 200708142131: completed |
| 07:42.03 | ScaredyCat | hurrah!! |
| 07:42.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | my images. I build 2007.2 sometimes 8). My yesterday images booted/worked fine in qemu. |
| 07:42.39 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:44.18 | ynezz | hope I'll have mine today also :p |
| 07:46.27 | *** join/#openmoko jouston (n=jouston@211-74-123-184.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 07:46.39 | ScaredyCat | it still ignored my local.conf though |
| 07:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2CF71.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:46.45 | Dmitry_Platonov | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/openmoko-smartphone-did-they-have-a-time-machine-or-what-229243.php |
| 07:47.19 | Dmitry_Platonov | Did you list proper dir in BBPATH? |
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| 07:48.01 | ynezz | i've put my local.conf in the dir where is auto.conf |
| 07:48.05 | ynezz | and it works |
| 07:48.13 | ScaredyCat | mine is where the sample one is |
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| 07:49.04 | ynezz | there is a symlink to sample, auto.conf and my local.conf |
| 07:49.44 | ynezz | openmoko/conf |
| 07:50.09 | Dmitry_Platonov | mine is under build/conf, and full path to build dir is in BBPATH before org.openembedded.dev |
| 07:50.21 | ScaredyCat | OM2007.2/common/conf |
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| 07:50.59 | Dmitry_Platonov | ScaredyCat, is full path to OM2007.2/common/conf in BBPATH? |
| 07:51.24 | ynezz | i don't think so |
| 07:52.25 | Dmitry_Platonov | basically, local.conf should be in subdir conf of some dir listed in BBPATH. |
| 07:52.54 | ScaredyCat | hrrmm |
| 07:55.52 | Dmitry_Platonov | ScaredyCat, do you use parallel bitbake? |
| 07:56.06 | *** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@ip5457b8f8.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 07:56.39 | ScaredyCat | -j 4 and 4 threads |
| 07:57.04 | ScaredyCat | PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 4" |
| 07:57.04 | ScaredyCat | BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "4" |
| 07:57.22 | Dmitry_Platonov | ok |
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| 08:00.44 | tilli | hi all |
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| 08:17.04 | ScaredyCat | ... I've even appended it to the auto.conf and it's ignored :/ |
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| 08:20.01 | Dmitry_Platonov | why do you think it's ignored? |
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| 08:20.41 | ScaredyCat | I have no idea... |
| 08:20.59 | ScaredyCat | that's where it picks up the machine type, architecture etc |
| 08:21.16 | Dmitry_Platonov | hm. what makes you think it's ignored? |
| 08:22.01 | ScaredyCat | because the inherit += "rm_work" didn't clear down |
| 08:22.28 | ScaredyCat | Istarted with 17.5GB, I now have 5.6GB free |
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| 08:23.04 | Kelly | hey guys, got my neo :-) |
| 08:24.08 | ScaredyCat | good good, did you update the p1 owners page? |
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| 08:26.06 | Dmitry_Platonov | ScaredyCat, you meant INHERIT += "rm_work" |
| 08:26.14 | Dmitry_Platonov | ? |
| 08:26.23 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 08:27.14 | Dmitry_Platonov | try bitbake -e |
| 08:28.30 | XorA | bitbake openmoko-devel-image -c rmall |
| 08:29.00 | Kelly | not yet, the payment dates etc are at work. I will update them soon |
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| 08:54.35 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[No_Linux]] [[Nand_erase]] [[Phase_1_Software_Testing]] [[Carriers]] |
| 08:56.51 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-35-195.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 09:05.00 | lukhas_nowhere | hello |
| 09:05.44 | Kelly | hi |
| 09:08.47 | *** join/#openmoko DregNET (n=thore@195.7.83.120) |
| 09:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko SliMM (n=stefan@89.137.226.12) |
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| 09:41.22 | SliMM | is anyone here? |
| 09:42.34 | zecke | ~seen anyone |
| 09:42.56 | apt | anyone <n=martin@81-31-233-38.net.nc-systems.no> was last seen on IRC in channel #kde, 86d 45m 10s ago, saying: 'argh... it's registered...'. |
| 09:42.57 | SliMM | zeke: could you help me with qemu a bit? |
| 09:43.04 | zecke | SliMM: unlikely |
| 09:43.06 | tilli_ | while we are all looking for anyone... |
| 09:43.26 | tilli_ | Is the gui from Braunschweig here who took photos at the CCCamp2007? |
| 09:43.40 | DonLemmi | I ain't looking for anybody |
| 09:43.44 | SliMM | ok, i have a problem with compiling qemu |
| 09:43.49 | DonLemmi | :-P |
| 09:43.50 | Dmitry_Platonov | SliMM, ask you question - I'll try to help |
| 09:44.16 | DonLemmi | tilli_ You mean the guy or the gui? |
| 09:44.35 | tilli_ | I need photographic evidence for my exchange Nokia770 -> Neo :) |
| 09:44.44 | tilli_ | DonLemmi: ops |
| 09:45.03 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 09:45.17 | SliMM | Dmitry_Platonov: http://pastebin.ca/658034 |
| 09:45.17 | tilli_ | oh shit. irssi set the wrong nick |
| 09:46.09 | *** part/#openmoko tr1 (n=tri@p57ADC62D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:47.30 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-144-235.web.vodafone.de) |
| 09:47.49 | Dmitry_Platonov | SliMM, you need zlib headers (package zlib-devel or something like this) |
| 09:48.05 | XorA | SliMM: this within or outwith OE? |
| 09:48.06 | SliMM | Dmitry_Platonov: thanks |
| 09:48.25 | SliMM | XorA: i don't understaind :) |
| 09:48.56 | XorA | SliMM: are you a) compiling qemu by hand or b) is this a fail building openmoko with OE |
| 09:49.38 | SliMM | i think OE stainds for open embeded, and it's point a) |
| 09:50.02 | XorA | SliMM: ok, then zlib devel package on your host |
| 09:50.13 | SliMM | ok, thanks |
| 09:50.17 | XorA | SliMM: because b) would have been a bug that shouldnt happen |
| 09:50.25 | SliMM | and for open embeded what do i do? |
| 09:50.40 | SliMM | building apps for the emu with oe |
| 09:51.04 | XorA | SliMM: what it says in the wiki I suppose |
| 09:51.35 | SliMM | ok |
| 09:52.57 | SliMM | i love synaptic package manager :P |
| 09:53.35 | SliMM | wil neo1973 be able to connect to windows? |
| 09:53.40 | SliMM | will* |
| 09:54.22 | XorA | yes |
| 09:57.28 | Dmitry_Platonov | in future |
| 09:59.16 | SliMM | stefan@marta:~/openmoko/qemu-neo1973$ openmoko/flash.sh |
| 09:59.17 | SliMM | Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - make sure that they're in $PATH. |
| 09:59.38 | SliMM | What should i do? :-s |
| 09:59.59 | ynezz | dpkg -S pngtopnm |
| 10:00.15 | ynezz | apt-get install <returned-package-name> |
| 10:00.56 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@62.73.65.2) |
| 10:01.07 | SliMM | stefan@marta:~/openmoko/qemu-neo1973$ dpkg -S pngtopnm |
| 10:01.07 | SliMM | dpkg: *pngtopnm* not found. |
| 10:01.54 | SliMM | E: Couldn't find package pngtopnm |
| 10:02.11 | SliMM | the last line is after apt-get install |
| 10:02.21 | ynezz | netpbm |
| 10:02.25 | ynezz | try that package |
| 10:02.46 | mdt | the program is named pngtopnm |
| 10:03.08 | mdt | oups, sorry.. ;) |
| 10:03.24 | SliMM | ynezz: yep, it works now, thanks |
| 10:04.09 | mdt | i have problems building a new kernel with openmoko - it fails building u-boot.... anyone else a problem with u-boot? |
| 10:04.15 | SliMM | how do i make a bash file? |
| 10:04.48 | *** join/#openmoko cyphi (n=cyphi@a91-153-116-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=ozarka@cpe-76-184-78-54.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 10:05.12 | ynezz | mdt: you can either BB_MASK="uboot" in your local.conf or do make update && make setup |
| 10:05.32 | Dmitry_Platonov | mdt, mokomakefile? |
| 10:05.39 | ynezz | you're probably using some older version of MokoMakefile setup which have broken uboot |
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| 10:07.21 | mdt | ynezz, no, i updated the makefile yesterday |
| 10:07.37 | ynezz | it's not enough |
| 10:07.45 | mdt | ynezz, wow... ;) |
| 10:08.02 | ynezz | read a MokoMakefile wiki |
| 10:08.26 | ozarka | Hello |
| 10:08.31 | ynezz | there is recomended to do 'make update && make setup && make openmoko-devel-image' |
| 10:08.37 | ynezz | and it works |
| 10:08.39 | mdt | ynezz, i do, ...ah you mean the part saying to do an update before reporting problems... shure ;) |
| 10:08.56 | ozarka | So is there some trick to getting the back cover off the neo? |
| 10:09.25 | ynezz | mdt: pastebin your problem then |
| 10:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-200-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:11.02 | ScaredyCat | ozarka: no... |
| 10:11.15 | ScaredyCat | at the top of the neo is a slight dip... |
| 10:11.18 | mdt | ynezz, i changed my root-fs alot and don't want to flash it completely. so i build .ipk and install those. this time is the first time i try to build a new kernel. can i go further this way, just flash the kernel and ipkg install the modules somehow? |
| 10:11.23 | ScaredyCat | use your fingernail |
| 10:11.27 | jeddy3 | ozarka, just use nails or guitar pick and some gentle pressure |
| 10:11.50 | jeddy3 | s/nails/fingernails/ |
| 10:11.54 | *** join/#openmoko jonibo (n=jonas@193.12.106.2) |
| 10:12.10 | ozarka | It takes me 10 minutes every time. |
| 10:12.12 | ynezz | mdt: it should work that way |
| 10:12.14 | mdt | ynezz, what is the right target to just build the kernel? make build-package-linux-gta01? |
| 10:12.23 | ozarka | qemu never gave me this kind of trouble. :-) |
| 10:12.43 | ynezz | mdt: i think, that you need to use bitbake <package> |
| 10:12.48 | jeddy3 | ozarka, :D |
| 10:13.43 | SliMM | well, it takes quite a while to start openmoko |
| 10:13.48 | SliMM | at least in the emu |
| 10:14.30 | ynezz | mdt: ah there is such target in Makefile, so yep it should work |
| 10:15.06 | SliMM | how does the input work in the emu? |
| 10:16.50 | Dmitry_Platonov | touchscreen emulation. add -usbdevice keyboard to have keyboard emulation |
| 10:17.53 | rwhitby | or just run "make run-qemu" |
| 10:18.00 | mdt | this is using bitbake: http://rafb.net/p/gnn44c92.html , http://rafb.net/p/f7Pmgp40.html is using make |
| 10:18.22 | ScaredyCat | rwhitby: !!! |
| 10:20.49 | SliMM | Dmitry_Platonov: how does touchscreen emulation work? |
| 10:21.16 | jeddy3 | SliMM, like a ordinary mouse pointer :) |
| 10:21.26 | Dmitry_Platonov | you click mouse, it translates to touchscreen event |
| 10:21.31 | SliMM | well, it doesn't work for me |
| 10:21.42 | SliMM | how do i re-calibrate? |
| 10:21.42 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03rwhitby 07OM-2007.2 * r116 10mokomakefile/Makefile: Initial stab at a multi-generational MokoMakefile |
| 10:22.05 | rwhitby | Note that it's on a branch. |
| 10:22.23 | ScaredyCat | rwhitby: INHERIT += 'rem_work' not working for om2007.2 / |
| 10:22.24 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 10:22.28 | ScaredyCat | rm_work |
| 10:22.36 | rwhitby | ScaredyCat: works for me. |
| 10:22.36 | Dmitry_Platonov | SliMM, exit qemu, mount image, rm etc/pointercal |
| 10:22.51 | jeddy3 | SliMM, how did you managed to calibrate if it didn't work? |
| 10:23.20 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-177-19.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 10:23.21 | rwhitby | So I'm looking for multi-generational MokoMakefile testers. |
| 10:23.21 | SliMM | i didn't touch the first crosshair |
| 10:23.22 | zecke | ScaredyCat: I have witnessed this as well, rm_work is only called when creating the rootfs |
| 10:23.27 | SliMM | i think that's the problem |
| 10:23.41 | jeddy3 | SliMM, ah |
| 10:23.52 | mdt | ynezz, no idea? |
| 10:23.56 | Dmitry_Platonov | SliMM, or simply flash again |
| 10:24.18 | ynezz | mdt: that bitbake one, you need to setup your env |
| 10:24.19 | jeddy3 | SliMM, either do as Dmitry_Platonov suggested - remove /etc/pointercal, or just make qemu again |
| 10:24.34 | ScaredyCat | that's no good then zecke ... since the rootfs is the last bit... |
| 10:24.38 | ynezz | mdt: you don't have paths set or so |
| 10:24.49 | rwhitby | To test the multi-generational MokoMakefile, download http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/branches/OM-2007.2/Makefile and set OPENMOKO_GENERATION at the top appropriately. |
| 10:24.49 | mdt | ynezz, yes, saw that for bitbake |
| 10:25.12 | mdt | ynezz, but setting env shows with bitbake the same error message as with make |
| 10:25.47 | ynezz | pastebin this /home/mdt/Source/openmoko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r13_0_2632_0/temp/log.do_compile.19985 |
| 10:25.53 | rwhitby | Only experienced testers with plenty of disk space at this stage please. I'll only be accepting MokoMakefile bugs, not OpenEmbedded or OpenMoko build problems. |
| 10:26.11 | rwhitby | (since OM2007.2 is not live yet) |
| 10:26.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | rwhitby, how can you define "live" |
| 10:26.47 | ynezz | officialy... |
| 10:26.52 | ynezz | i like mastermakefile |
| 10:26.56 | rwhitby | Dmitry_Platonov: according to mickey|dinner asking me not to convert MokoMakefile until he says so. |
| 10:27.17 | mdt | ynezz, http://rafb.net/p/RR2XqZ83.html |
| 10:28.02 | ScaredyCat | rwhitby: I have disk space, I'd just rather not have to reserve it just to build .2 |
| 10:28.19 | rwhitby | ScaredyCat: guess you don't qualify then ;-) |
| 10:28.29 | ynezz | mdt: no idea on that one, btw do you need uboot? |
| 10:28.32 | DPThought | rwhitby: do i have tp clean the old Makefile direcotry? |
| 10:28.54 | rwhitby | DPThought: best to use a completely different area at this stage. |
| 10:29.06 | DPThought | rwhitby: ok |
| 10:29.14 | rwhitby | I am attempting to make it a clean in-place upgrade, but I'm still testing that part. |
| 10:30.03 | rwhitby | (I'm not sure what it does in the build/tmp directory yet - whether you could possibly switch back and forward, or whether it's a one-way transition) |
| 10:30.26 | DPThought | rwhitby: will uboot build out of the box with this version? I had this prolem with the old makefile but did not investigate any further yet |
| 10:30.51 | rwhitby | DPThought: I have today built OM2007.1 and OM2007.2 on Debian Etch. |
| 10:31.07 | DPThought | nice |
| 10:31.22 | ynezz | i've built both on ubuntu hour ago |
| 10:31.32 | mdt | ynezz, no, i dont but linux-gta01 seems to need it |
| 10:31.43 | rwhitby | and http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/buildlogs/autobuild-nudi-last.txt shows that OM2007.2 continues to build fine on Debian Etch on the nslu2-linux autobuilder. |
| 10:31.52 | DPThought | i'm not quite sure if debian unstable is the right environment. But it is what i have atm :) |
| 10:31.58 | ynezz | mdt: just put BB_MASK="uboot" in your local.conf |
| 10:32.11 | mdt | ynezz, what does that do? |
| 10:32.23 | ynezz | don't build uboot |
| 10:32.54 | mdt | good idea ;) |
| 10:33.21 | DPThought | i hope i will understand the build environment soon. Because that would be the only place where i can really halp at the moment. |
| 10:33.39 | DPThought | writing code is not so much my league |
| 10:33.43 | ynezz | mdt: anyway you must use some old environment, i've build uboot succesfully today... |
| 10:34.47 | ynezz | mdt: it's BBMASK, sorry |
| 10:35.47 | cesarb | rwhitby: found one MokoMakefile bug already |
| 10:36.08 | cesarb | rwhitby: .PHONY: copy-package-% is followed by qemu-copy-package-%: |
| 10:36.25 | cesarb | rwhitby: clearly it should be .PHONY: qemu-copy-package-% |
| 10:36.48 | cesarb | rwhitby: (you forgot to update the .PHONY line when changing the target name from my patch) |
| 10:37.08 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-214-87.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 10:41.11 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03rwhitby 07OM-2007.2 * r117 10mokomakefile/Makefile: Fixed qemu-copy-package phony target. |
| 10:41.28 | ScaredyCat | ls |
| 10:42.05 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: bin boot cdrom dev... |
| 10:42.19 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 10:42.27 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r118 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Fixed qemu-copy-package phony target. |
| 10:43.17 | ScaredyCat | we have you. |
| 10:43.19 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 10:44.18 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: a bot is never away, I'm away almost all the time |
| 10:44.34 | ScaredyCat | that's because you're a lazy bot ;) |
| 10:44.54 | ScaredyCat | we should chain you to the channe; |
| 10:44.59 | ScaredyCat | s/;/l/ |
| 10:45.51 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 10:45.54 | DPThought | monotone drives me up the wall evey time.Ho can software be so sloooooooooow |
| 10:46.04 | *** join/#openmoko MookiE (n=ubuntu@p5B07DBFD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:46.13 | zecke | DPThought: profile it :) |
| 10:46.25 | DPThought | zecke: use git :p |
| 10:46.48 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=Moarc_zi@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 10:46.53 | MookiE | did you mean me? |
| 10:46.54 | aloril | MookiE: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:49.02 | DPThought | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 Linus torwalds on git. And why he built it. He mentions monotone was nearly what he wanted. But unusable slow. :) |
| 10:50.26 | zecke | DPThought: there is nothing that stops you implementing a mtn tool that is using git-fast-import... |
| 10:50.36 | ewon | DPThought: ever used Rational Clearcase? |
| 10:50.51 | ewon | DPThought: if you're more than 100ms from the server, it stops working... |
| 10:50.58 | ewon | needs binary kernel modules |
| 10:51.00 | ewon | it's hellish |
| 10:51.27 | XorA | Clearcase was the most insane system I ever seen, luckilly its insane price eventually halted the managments attempts to force it upon us |
| 10:51.33 | DPThought | zecke: hehe, the pain is bearable. I think i will use what is there :) |
| 10:51.48 | ynezz | I would rather use git also, have to learn monotone just for OE... |
| 10:52.09 | ewon | XorA: I encountered it in IBM, we have a Corportate Policy (tm) that everyone _had_ to use clearcase |
| 10:52.35 | XorA | ewon: Our management were insistant on having use use Rose/Clearcase/Clearquest all in harmony |
| 10:52.46 | ewon | XorA: jesus wept |
| 10:52.47 | XorA | ewon: but they werent going to hire a sys admin |
| 10:52.52 | ewon | lol |
| 10:53.03 | rwhitby | ewon: I used ClearCase for 10 years |
| 10:53.04 | ewon | we had 2 fulltime admins just to look after the clearcase server |
| 10:53.20 | cjb_ie | sounds more like babysitting |
| 10:53.32 | ewon | rwhitby: impressive. are you off the medication yet? |
| 10:53.44 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@AC9E9B8E.ipt.aol.com) |
| 10:53.50 | rwhitby | ewon: I write Makefiles for therapy. |
| 10:53.55 | ewon | rwhitby: hah :) |
| 10:54.16 | ewon | rational purify is a nice piece of software, once you munge your project to work with it, but jesus, clearcase gave me the creeping horrors |
| 10:54.20 | XorA | the other thing that saved us was I wrote a batch file to do all clearcases multi site usage with VSS :-) |
| 10:54.45 | XorA | what was that crazy arse Rational Test all about though |
| 10:54.52 | ewon | never went near it |
| 10:54.57 | XorA | it couldnt even generate a valid test case for main(){} |
| 10:55.02 | ewon | heh |
| 10:55.15 | XorA | it would define all its internal variables as const then write to them |
| 10:55.15 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[FAQ]] [[User:Phlash]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Melbourne]] |
| 10:55.45 | XorA | that thing wasted a week of my life and led to my heavy drinking |
| 10:56.01 | ewon | clearcase easily halved my team's productivity |
| 10:56.12 | ewon | you could spend a whole day trying to merge a stream |
| 10:56.31 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03rwhitby 07OM-2007.2 * r119 10mokomakefile/Makefile: Remove the oe symlink for OM-2007.2 |
| 10:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07F0C8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:57.46 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 10:58.01 | XorA | and dont even get me started on the decision to use Rational Rose as the IDE for the project |
| 10:58.14 | ewon | ha |
| 10:58.15 | ewon | haha |
| 10:58.19 | ewon | oh dear God |
| 10:58.42 | XorA | luckilly if you installed visual studio plugin for vim, then you could trick rose into loading vim :-) |
| 10:58.56 | ewon | after a couple of months we mutinied and went back to using subversion + bugzilla |
| 11:01.26 | ewon | we had a strict no-alchohol-on-campus policy in IBM, it was a pity. Would have made clearcase a lot more tolerable. |
| 11:02.06 | XorA | heh heh, my last company we used to go to Princes Street gardens with a carryout to survive the horror |
| 11:02.38 | rwhitby | ewon: sounds like IBM was very much like Motorola/Freescale. |
| 11:04.49 | rwhitby | DPThought: I'm going to make it move the old build tree aside (to preserve it) at the expense of disk space if someone doesn't clean it up. |
| 11:04.52 | ewon | rhelmer: I think it's a Gigantic Company(tm) thing |
| 11:05.08 | MookiE | hey ho... By flashing my Neo Bootloader I have the error -110 and have to change the size of the NAND Partitions. I can connect to my Neo with cu but I don't know how and how big I must made the partitions. Can someone help me? |
| 11:05.21 | ewon | I went from a company with 300,000 employees, to a company with 12 employees, and it's much nicer. |
| 11:05.33 | SpeedEvil | why do you need to change the partitions? |
| 11:05.35 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 11:06.07 | rwhitby | ewon: same here, except smaller at the top end, and a bit larger at the lower end (we started with 25) |
| 11:06.41 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07DCAD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:06.44 | ewon | I often thought if IBM issued a gun to every employee, we could take over a medium-sized country. |
| 11:06.46 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@host86-152-204-15.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:07.13 | SpeedEvil | Pitch it to managment :) |
| 11:07.18 | ewon | hah :) |
| 11:07.33 | *** join/#openmoko DregNET (n=thore@195.7.83.120) |
| 11:08.05 | CM | I had to use ClearCase at Ericsson, was barely useful at all |
| 11:08.21 | CM | Me and another guy set up our own svn server instead |
| 11:08.31 | MookiE | @SpeedEvil: I read on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util#Source_Code if I have "error -110" I need to change the size of partitions. |
| 11:09.19 | SpeedEvil | what are you trying to flash? |
| 11:09.31 | MookiE | the bootloader |
| 11:09.36 | SpeedEvil | Why? |
| 11:10.08 | CM | MookiE: Do you have a debug board? |
| 11:10.43 | MookiE | no |
| 11:10.55 | SpeedEvil | Why do you want to flash the bootloader. |
| 11:11.03 | CM | Then be very very careful to touch u-boot |
| 11:11.07 | SpeedEvil | You shouldn't normally ever flash it without extreme good reason. |
| 11:11.11 | MookiE | ...I see that i'm a idiot |
| 11:11.38 | CM | MookiE: Don't worry, I was too. ;) |
| 11:12.10 | CM | But I was told to update u-boot by mickeyl since mine was too old |
| 11:12.40 | CM | Had to get help from ScaredyCat to get it back in working state. |
| 11:12.50 | CM | (See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bricked) |
| 11:13.21 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-186-10-167.web.vodafone.de) |
| 11:13.24 | SpeedEvil | Unless you have phase 0 hardware, that has never been updated. |
| 11:13.35 | SpeedEvil | (I doubt there are more than 5 in this condition worldwide) |
| 11:14.45 | CM | SpeedEvil: mickeyl guided me through last week while he was on the train. I had a problem booting the rootfs, and he said it was a known problem in the old u-boots and I needed a more recent one. |
| 11:15.08 | CM | I wonder if all shipped Neos have the same uboot and rootfs? |
| 11:16.15 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 11:16.19 | SpeedEvil | What problem? |
| 11:16.46 | SpeedEvil | did you try simply nand erase in u-boot? |
| 11:17.17 | SpeedEvil | if you were trying to flash a larger image on the existing FS. |
| 11:17.29 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|lappi (n=rob_w@ip-90-186-47-64.web.vodafone.de) |
| 11:20.37 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 11:25.03 | CM | SpeedEvil: I guess a nand erase could have worked |
| 11:25.11 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 11:25.18 | CM | SpeedEvil: irc log: http://pastebin.ca/658111 |
| 11:30.11 | SpeedEvil | yeah - looks like it. |
| 11:30.19 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@A-32-85.cust.iol.ie) |
| 11:37.23 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03rwhitby 07OM-2007.2 * r120 10mokomakefile/Makefile: Multi-generational MokoMakefile can now build OM-2007.1 and OM-2007.2 alternately (not concurrently) in the same directory tree. |
| 11:39.34 | rwhitby | ok, those who are willing to risk loosing their build tree can test it out at http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/branches/OM-2007.2/Makefile |
| 11:40.21 | hhf423 | CM: how was your uboot too old? |
| 11:40.49 | hhf423 | CM: ah, sorry just saw the note on rootfs issues you had |
| 11:41.15 | CM | hhf423: NP. I should have done a nand erase kernel and rootfs first, that's all |
| 11:41.32 | CM | But it was 6 in the morning, what can you expect? ;) |
| 11:42.11 | hhf423 | ah, so you didn't actually need a new uboot? |
| 11:43.10 | CM | No, I should have doen a nand erase and just reflashed |
| 11:43.12 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
| 11:43.29 | CM | hhf423: I agree, it turns off too quickly |
| 11:43.31 | hhf423 | I see |
| 11:44.04 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: you can set that. |
| 11:44.25 | SpeedEvil | You can set most stuff in uboot |
| 11:45.32 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@78.16.88.61) |
| 11:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 11:51.17 | *** join/#openmoko torpor (n=torpor@chello084113235192.18.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 11:51.19 | torpor | greets |
| 11:51.42 | torpor | i have my neo1973 sitting right here, booted up just nicely .. still finishing the Makefile tools build however .. |
| 11:52.03 | torpor | the question i have: is this the best choice for a development environment, or should i pursue the VMWare images instead? |
| 11:52.49 | torpor | i want to be able to maintain concurrency and parity with the mainline openmoko project, and contribute actively .. but obviously i have to have the same/similar environment as the one that is in use by the openmoko crew |
| 11:53.14 | torpor | so hopefully i can get some ideas. in the meantime, the openembedded/openmoko Makefile is doing its thing .. i hope it will give me a usable environment when it is complete. |
| 11:54.33 | hhf423 | SpeedEvil: oh? how would I set that? |
| 11:54.56 | rwhitby | torpor: welcome |
| 11:55.02 | CM | torpor: What distro are you on? :) |
| 11:55.09 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.ethome-ip.ethome.com.tw) |
| 11:55.11 | torpor | rwhitby: thanks.. |
| 11:55.22 | torpor | cm: i'm mostly using ubuntu-studio at the moment. |
| 11:55.27 | torpor | but its a typical ubuntu config.. |
| 11:55.29 | CM | torpor: rwhitby ist the Makefile maker ;) |
| 11:55.38 | torpor | thx for the intro! |
| 11:55.54 | torpor | rwhitby: am i right in thinking there are two versions of the Makefile out there ..? |
| 11:56.15 | rwhitby | torpor: there is the official MokoMakefile, which builds OM-2007.1 |
| 11:56.23 | torpor | ah right |
| 11:56.29 | torpor | of course - release/pre-release .. |
| 11:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko ebel__ (n=rory@213-202-154-4.bas503.dsl.esat.net) |
| 11:56.36 | rwhitby | there is the nslu2-linux Master Makefile, which can build lots of OE stuff, including OM-2007.2 |
| 11:56.40 | torpor | so i would like to perhaps be involved with the newest one .. |
| 11:57.09 | rwhitby | and there is http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/branches/OM-2007.2/Makefile which is ready for alpha testing (it will be the next version of the MokoMakefile which can build either 2007.1 or 2007.2) |
| 11:57.22 | torpor | what i've done so far: put the jffs2 img on there using the OpenMoko Flasher (on OSX/Intel) .. the 'latest' image in that list, whatever it was. |
| 11:58.03 | torpor | what i want: to go from the OpenMoko build environment->custom image. i would like most of all to assist OpenMoko with the environment/build/syslib configuration and fixups to get it all nicely packaged.. |
| 11:58.34 | torpor | i would like then to be able to add kernel modules and libs and apps through the .ipk delivery mechanism .. |
| 11:58.50 | torpor | i have an application for which openmoko is now my primary target, among 4 or 5 others .. ;) |
| 11:59.19 | rwhitby | torpor: have you developed with OE before? |
| 11:59.19 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03njp * r2703 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 11:59.19 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 2007-08-15 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 11:59.19 | CIA-20 | openmoko: * libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.c: |
| 11:59.19 | CIA-20 | openmoko: (moko_gsmd_connection_dispose), (moko_gsmd_connection_class_init), |
| 11:59.19 | CIA-20 | openmoko: (_moko_gsmd_connection_source_prepare), |
| 11:59.21 | CIA-20 | openmoko: (_moko_gsmd_connection_source_check), |
| 11:59.23 | CIA-20 | openmoko: (_moko_gsmd_connection_source_dispatch), |
| 12:01.37 | torpor | rwhitby: yes, quite a bit .. still have my old zaurus (collie) booted up and running a little webserver on the bookshelf in fact .. ;) |
| 12:01.55 | torpor | i've also done linux custom builds since the days of the minix-list, professionally. |
| 12:02.34 | torpor | recently have been working in the embedded world - studio electronics - with linux as well .. and am now doing my own apps on the side, targetting openmoko, gp2x, ds-linux, and such things .. |
| 12:02.50 | rwhitby | torpor: MokoMakefile just sets up a standard OE build environment in a common way. After that, you can either continue to use the make commands or go straight into bitbake in the created directory structure. |
| 12:03.05 | torpor | got a games engine i'm porting to as many devices as i can before i release it. ;) http://shop.subotron.com <-- upcoming event about such things. |
| 12:03.50 | torpor | rwhitby: cool .. i have now switched to the alpha Makefile, and will build that today. shall i actively report issues, or do you want me to use a bugtracker? |
| 12:04.27 | rwhitby | torpor: just ping me here |
| 12:04.31 | torpor | ok |
| 12:04.59 | torpor | whats your estimate on a build time, based on a 2ghz dual-core machine with 1gig of RAM? |
| 12:05.32 | rwhitby | between 4 and 14 hours |
| 12:06.26 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.64) |
| 12:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:08.46 | Dmitry_Platonov | I'd say ~10 |
| 12:09.08 | Dmitry_Platonov | if your build is parallel |
| 12:10.13 | torpor | you mean with psyco? |
| 12:10.19 | torpor | or -j 20? |
| 12:10.37 | CM | Took about 7.5h from scratch on my AMD64 3000+ with 1gb ram |
| 12:10.58 | torpor | ok so i'm gonna have to let it sit a while then .. |
| 12:11.03 | Dmitry_Platonov | with BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "4" |
| 12:11.04 | CM | rwhitby: make update-makefile on the alpha reverts to the 2007.1 version btw |
| 12:12.14 | rwhitby | CM: yeah |
| 12:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko mattzerah (n=matt@121.50.222.55) |
| 12:13.52 | Kelly | does anybody have an update on the status of the GPS? |
| 12:14.14 | rwhitby | CM: I won't be changing that before that one goes live. |
| 12:14.30 | SpeedEvil | Kelly: the software has not been officially released yet. |
| 12:14.43 | SpeedEvil | Kelly: open-source GPS work continues slowly. |
| 12:15.19 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 12:16.10 | ynezz | i wonder why it takes so long |
| 12:16.32 | SpeedEvil | lack of a designated global-locate poking person. |
| 12:17.17 | DPThought | rwhitby: make update-makefile loads the old makefile |
| 12:17.35 | rwhitby | DPThought: yep |
| 12:17.57 | rwhitby | that's a failsafe ;-) |
| 12:18.34 | DPThought | rwhitby: and it probably overwrites your changes in the makefile OPENMOKO_GENERATION should probably be defined outside the file. ENV-Variable or include file |
| 12:19.17 | rwhitby | DPThought: OPENMOKO_GENERATION will follow mickey's pronouncement on which version is live |
| 12:19.44 | DPThought | ok |
| 12:19.49 | rwhitby | (and eventually 2007.1 will drop out) |
| 12:20.39 | rwhitby | the idea is that there is a slight barrier for people to build something other than what the core team wants to be the official build |
| 12:20.56 | rwhitby | (slight == you have to edit a line in the makefile at the moment) |
| 12:21.20 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@fm92wl-89-31-10-134.isp.mcnet.cz) |
| 12:21.23 | DPThought | btw. what did the old version build? 2007.1 or 2007.2? |
| 12:21.35 | rwhitby | But yeah, "make update-makefile" is not recommended with the alpha version. |
| 12:21.38 | rwhitby | 2007.1 |
| 12:22.04 | rwhitby | (at least not recommended until it is released for general use) |
| 12:22.14 | DPThought | rwhitby: so good you came up with it. Or i just had done a downgrade. :) |
| 12:22.37 | DPThought | i got the latest and greatest on the camp |
| 12:23.03 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 12:23.47 | Kelly | SpeedEvil: the closed source gps program would be sufficient. Is there any clues on how long it will be before its officially released? |
| 12:23.51 | DPThought | i have seen that there are many applications like media player in the svn. but not on the image. What defines what is to be build? (Or should i not care becaus they are all only templates) |
| 12:24.25 | CM | rwhitby: Have you gotten it to build with the alpha makefile? I get a lot of Parsing errors: http://pastebin.ca/658140 |
| 12:27.38 | CM | Maybe a zsh issue? |
| 12:27.38 | torpor | rwhitby: this 'sheep barrier' you're imposing would be better solved with repositories, in my opinion. i.e. the official 'consumer repository', and the 'developer repo' .. |
| 12:27.38 | rwhitby | CM: did it remove the oe symlink in the top-level dir? |
| 12:27.38 | SpeedEvil | Kelly: nope. |
| 12:27.39 | SpeedEvil | 'real soon now' is the latest official word. |
| 12:27.39 | CM | I have no symlink in /home/moko |
| 12:27.39 | rwhitby | torpor: I believe something like that is planned by the core team. I just work with what they provide :-) |
| 12:27.39 | rwhitby | CM: did it move aside your build dir? |
| 12:27.39 | torpor | i dig it.. but old solutions often become standards just because someone didn't raise their hand. i don't wanna be that kind of sheep, but often am. |
| 12:27.39 | CM | Yes, I have build-OM-2007.1 and build |
| 12:27.39 | rwhitby | CM: and did it update you to bitbake 1.8, and you have no other bitbake installed earlier in the path? |
| 12:27.40 | CM | Ah, that can be it.. It did update, but maybe I have an old bb in the path |
| 12:27.43 | rwhitby | strange, cause setup-env should put the local one first |
| 12:27.46 | CM | I have 1.8.6 installed the normal way.. |
| 12:27.59 | rwhitby | you should have seen it svn co from the 1.8 branch |
| 12:28.16 | rwhitby | (I'm not getting those parse errors here) |
| 12:28.26 | CM | It did, and it wanted pysqlite |
| 12:30.08 | CM | My $PATH isn't correct I guess.. Just did a ./setup-env |
| 12:30.28 | BryceLeo|WrkLnch | hey rwhitby i hate to be a pain but i'm using irc remotely and my histroy doesn't go back that far... mokomakefile alpha link? |
| 12:30.33 | rwhitby | CM: the make commands to build the image should do that automatically |
| 12:30.51 | CM | BryceLeo|WrkLnch: wget "http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/branches/OM-2007.2/Makefile" |
| 12:31.03 | BryceLeo|WrkLnch | thanks rwhitby |
| 12:31.10 | rwhitby | thx CM |
| 12:31.24 | CM | rwhitby: I know, and bitbake --version shows BitBake Build Tool Core version 1.8.6, bitbake version 1.8.6 |
| 12:31.43 | rwhitby | CM: maybe a PYTHONPATH or something? |
| 12:31.48 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 12:32.04 | torpor | my bitbake was not upgraded from 1.6.9 either .. |
| 12:32.12 | torpor | still trying to build 2007.2 with bb 1.6.9 |
| 12:32.27 | CM | The python path is /usr/lib64/portage/pym |
| 12:32.38 | rwhitby | torpor: the 'check-generation' target should fix that |
| 12:33.11 | BryceLeo | torpor why not apt-get remove? |
| 12:33.21 | CM | Thanks, I'll look around on my own |
| 12:33.26 | CM | :-) |
| 12:33.42 | torpor | okay check-generation it is ... |
| 12:35.20 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 12:35.25 | torpor | BryceLeo: make setup-bitbake works just fine .. |
| 12:35.32 | torpor | CM what errors? |
| 12:35.44 | CM | torpor: http://pastebin.ca/658140 |
| 12:35.54 | CM | When trying to build the openmoko-image |
| 12:36.00 | torpor | i have installed psyco |
| 12:36.01 | torpor | .. |
| 12:36.19 | CM | I haven't, since I'm on 64-bit |
| 12:37.00 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03njp * r2704 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 12:37.00 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 2007-08-15 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 12:37.00 | CIA-20 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_network_registered): |
| 12:37.00 | CIA-20 | openmoko: Print the type of registration information. |
| 12:42.15 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-196-150.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:47.21 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 12:49.26 | *** join/#openmoko |berserk| (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 12:50.31 | rwhitby | mickeyl: multi-generational mokomakefile at http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/branches/OM-2007.2/Makefile - a couple of people are alpha testing it now |
| 12:50.49 | torpor | i'm running it now still .. |
| 12:51.04 | mickeyl | rwhitby: good work! |
| 12:51.15 | mickeyl | rwhitby: means we can switch instantanesouly |
| 12:51.17 | mickeyl | ? |
| 12:51.29 | mickeyl | apt: spell instantaneously |
| 12:51.36 | mickeyl | ~botsnack |
| 12:51.36 | apt | :), mickeyl |
| 12:51.39 | rwhitby | mickeyl: it can alternately build 2007.1 or 2007.2, but not both concurrently |
| 12:51.57 | mickeyl | rwhitby: ok, cool. concurrently is not that interesting imo |
| 12:52.04 | rwhitby | nod |
| 12:52.45 | ScaredyCat | I bet it still dosn;t do rm_work.... |
| 12:52.45 | pvanhoof | mickeyl, ping |
| 12:52.45 | ScaredyCat | ~lart rwhitby |
| 12:52.45 | apt | crushes rwhitby with a full height scsi disk |
| 12:53.42 | DukeOfURL | is any new development being done on 2007.1? |
| 12:54.20 | DukeOfURL | i.e., where is the dialer development? |
| 12:54.24 | rwhitby | mickeyl: it keeps the openmoko svn checkout, but removes the oe symlink. when you switch, please remove the oe/packages stuff from site.conf |
| 12:54.54 | rwhitby | (make that when you officially deprecate 2007.1) |
| 12:54.55 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Switzerland]] [[User:Yvanxxx]] [[FAQ]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Vienna]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Vienna]] |
| 12:55.42 | rwhitby | leaving it in during the transition period is fine - it's just a harmless bitbake error due to the missing directory in BBFILES |
| 12:55.44 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3_ (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 12:57.01 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:01.25 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@n128-227-139-11.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 13:01.47 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: still want the scummVM bb? |
| 13:02.14 | ScaredyCat | yes please.... building with .2 doesn;t work either |
| 13:02.18 | ScaredyCat | so |
| 13:02.20 | ScaredyCat | ye |
| 13:02.21 | ScaredyCat | a |
| 13:02.24 | ScaredyCat | h |
| 13:02.45 | Kensan | how should I send it to you? |
| 13:03.28 | ScaredyCat | you can email me if you like... or put it up somewhere... |
| 13:03.32 | Dmitry_Platonov | maybe, post on OE bugtracker? |
| 13:04.04 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: I currently have no suitable server to put it up. |
| 13:06.07 | Dmitry_Platonov | I want to play Full Throttle again 8) |
| 13:06.25 | xkr47 | if I run "poweroff" in the console, does it leave anything on in the phone ? |
| 13:06.39 | xkr47 | on wednesday the battery showed 50% full when I turned it off, today it wouldn't start |
| 13:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0FCAC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:07.04 | xkr47 | (50% according to the panel application) |
| 13:07.29 | Kensan | Dimitry_Platanov: it's "tailored" for Openmoko 2007.1 with automated menu entries etc. Once the overlay-merge is done patches will be submitted |
| 13:11.52 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:13.57 | Dmitry_Platonov | Kensan, overlay-merge? |
| 13:15.32 | *** part/#openmoko rmoravci1 (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 13:17.47 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravci1 (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
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| 13:20.34 | Kensan | Dimitry_Platanov: The Openembedded-overlay that was in the Openmoko svn repository is being merged upstream (back to Openembedded). |
| 13:20.47 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-16-220.elisa-mobile.fi) |
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| 13:21.36 | Dmitry_Platonov | Isn't merging already done? |
| 13:22.50 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03njp * r2705 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 13:22.50 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 2007-08-15 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 13:22.50 | CIA-20 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_pin_entry), |
| 13:22.50 | CIA-20 | openmoko: (on_network_registered), (moko_dialer_init): |
| 13:22.50 | CIA-20 | openmoko: Check for registration type, and take the right action. |
| 13:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
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| 13:27.37 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03njp * r2706 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 13:27.37 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 2007-08-15 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 13:27.37 | CIA-20 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_network_registered): |
| 13:27.37 | CIA-20 | openmoko: Remove the registration timeout out on registration. |
| 13:31.59 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03njp * r2707 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 13:31.59 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 2007-08-15 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 13:31.59 | CIA-20 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_network_registered): |
| 13:32.00 | CIA-20 | openmoko: Fix a typo. |
| 13:34.00 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
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| 13:43.50 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 13:45.10 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 13:47.33 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 13:49.56 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 13:51.49 | hhf423 | funny how Sean always references GPS as allowing for such nice ideas and then GPS is the thing that works least |
| 13:52.45 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 13:53.23 | jgm | hhf423: I don't think that's fair. There are all sorts of other things that don't work at all :) |
| 13:53.37 | hhf423 | hahaha |
| 13:55.11 | *** part/#openmoko mintee_ (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 13:57.26 | lukhas_nowhere | is there an application allowing the user to choose between different alsa profiles ? |
| 13:57.58 | Dmitry_Platonov | alsactl? |
| 13:59.54 | CM | Intel's embedded promo: http://ignite.intel.com/ |
| 14:00.00 | lukhas_nowhere | a graphical application, rather |
| 14:00.21 | lukhas_nowhere | alsactl is what I'm using right now, but it's horrible to use with a stylus :) |
| 14:00.35 | jeddy3_ | indeed :) |
| 14:00.46 | xkr47 | :) |
| 14:00.57 | Dmitry_Platonov | you can script and make menu entries |
| 14:01.13 | lukhas_nowhere | yeah that's what I'm about to do |
| 14:01.51 | lukhas_nowhere | once I manage to read the appropriate docs |
| 14:05.47 | *** join/#openmoko lal1 (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 14:08.53 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host106-122-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:09.20 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-147-20-115.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:12.38 | ynezz | hm chopperputer, seems like they want to be able to disable not only cars remotely :p |
| 14:18.11 | rmitchell | i know you guys are focused on the October release, but is there a site/page/rundown of expected GTA03 stuff yet? |
| 14:18.37 | *** join/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@p57BB1169.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:18.48 | ewon | heh |
| 14:20.25 | rxr | rmitchell: GTA03 hardware I guess ? |
| 14:21.26 | rmitchell | yeah, or just possible hardware |
| 14:21.47 | rmitchell | I didn't find anything on the wiki, so I assume that not much is known yet |
| 14:21.53 | juri_ | yay! there was a response to my mail about my openmoko going to the wrong continent! :P |
| 14:22.03 | rxr | rmitchell: possible hardware is in the wiki, like possibly wlan |
| 14:22.20 | rxr | but I'm just hanging here, so I'm also just reading tea leafes |
| 14:22.48 | rmitchell | wlan? wifi is in the GTA02 correct? |
| 14:22.48 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 14:23.12 | ynezz | usb2 also |
| 14:23.21 | rmitchell | I was wondering about the likelyhood of a camera |
| 14:23.24 | rmitchell | more than anything |
| 14:23.25 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=tsingtao@f049175071.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:23.32 | rmitchell | usb2 would be great |
| 14:23.35 | dcordes | hi |
| 14:23.44 | rxr | rmitchell: I doubt a camery will be added anytime this year |
| 14:23.48 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: you got it running? |
| 14:23.59 | rmitchell | is GTA03 planned for this year or next? |
| 14:24.00 | ScaredyCat | yah |
| 14:24.01 | ynezz | why everybody wants a camera |
| 14:24.17 | dcordes | ynezz: just for having one ;) |
| 14:24.18 | ScaredyCat | just copying monkey island |
| 14:24.19 | rmitchell | its not a big deal, but I would wait less than a year for one |
| 14:24.21 | ScaredyCat | across |
| 14:24.49 | rxr | but with usb2 you could plug in any webcam *lol* |
| 14:24.57 | rmitchell | that would be sweet |
| 14:25.14 | rmitchell | I was wanting one mainly to display a pic of the person calling |
| 14:25.26 | rmitchell | but since that is minor thing, I can live without one |
| 14:25.27 | CM | Do all webcams really require usb2? I thought they just need power |
| 14:25.49 | rmitchell | as of now, the neo1973 is not a powered usb |
| 14:25.59 | rmitchell | from what I understand |
| 14:26.04 | cjb_ie | CM: no way |
| 14:26.16 | cjb_ie | plenty of pre-USB2 webcams in existence |
| 14:26.17 | dcordes | rmitchell: what do you mean by "as of now"? you think this is going to change? |
| 14:26.20 | SpeedEvil | rmitchell: next. |
| 14:26.38 | Writchie | as of now, i don't thing there is any USB |
| 14:26.43 | SpeedEvil | Only really quite expensive webcams are USB2 |
| 14:26.47 | Writchie | USB host is not brought to connector |
| 14:26.48 | dcordes | Writchie: ??? |
| 14:26.55 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: yes, it is. |
| 14:26.55 | Kensan | ScaredyCat to start Monkey Island 2 you have to pass scummvm "--boot-param=10001" |
| 14:26.55 | Writchie | anyone understand this differently |
| 14:27.11 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: there is a two port internal host |
| 14:27.16 | *** join/#openmoko sative (n=oh@netmatz.org) |
| 14:27.19 | SpeedEvil | one port of which can be switched to be a device |
| 14:27.28 | SpeedEvil | this port is brought out to the exposed connector |
| 14:27.34 | aloril | rmitchell: GTA03: next year (we should hear more when GTA02 is released) |
| 14:27.36 | SpeedEvil | the internal port is connected to the bluetooth |
| 14:27.40 | Writchie | you mean switched on the chip |
| 14:27.43 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:27.50 | Writchie | that's very good to hear |
| 14:28.06 | SpeedEvil | The kernel doesn't properly support it yet, so it won't work though. |
| 14:28.20 | rmitchell | that is what I figured, and a press/media coverage thing said 3 more versions beyond GTA02 |
| 14:28.25 | Writchie | then why wasn't usb OTG included? |
| 14:28.34 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: becasue it wasn't. |
| 14:28.41 | Writchie | i know, lack of time |
| 14:28.42 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: there is additional hardware needed. |
| 14:28.49 | Writchie | not much |
| 14:28.50 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: I don't really understand that. What does the usb host port have in common with bt? |
| 14:29.03 | Writchie | the bluetooth module uses USB |
| 14:29.06 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: the bt module is connected to one port of the two port host. |
| 14:29.09 | dcordes | ah i see |
| 14:29.10 | SpeedEvil | USB host |
| 14:29.23 | dcordes | so there are actually two usb hosts? |
| 14:29.58 | dcordes | of which one leads to the external connector and one is used by the bt device? |
| 14:30.11 | *** part/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@p57BB1169.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:30.13 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:30.23 | SpeedEvil | and the external one can be switched to behave as a device |
| 14:30.38 | DPThought | ...but without power. ;) |
| 14:30.45 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:30.53 | CM | ..you need a powered hub :) |
| 14:30.57 | ynezz | so mass storage is possible? |
| 14:30.57 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 14:31.11 | SpeedEvil | You need a powered hub happy to run from a host with no power. |
| 14:31.13 | SpeedEvil | Most won't. |
| 14:31.21 | SpeedEvil | Yes, you can use mass storage. |
| 14:31.30 | DPThought | are there yet nice battery powered usb adators avaialble? Or do you have to solder? |
| 14:31.39 | dcordes | DPThought: you can make one |
| 14:31.46 | Writchie | i've seem them |
| 14:32.02 | dcordes | there are also battery packs for usb with 4 AA cells |
| 14:32.20 | DPThought | easy. But i know that many devices have these problems. So there is maybe time for a universal solution :) |
| 14:32.24 | dcordes | I own a 2000mah usb battery pack with li ion battery |
| 14:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D837E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:32.38 | Writchie | there is a universal solution, its called USB OTG |
| 14:32.39 | dcordes | DPThought: get one of those |
| 14:32.51 | dcordes | Writchie: what is OTG? |
| 14:33.01 | Writchie | the USB On The Go standard |
| 14:33.07 | dcordes | uhu |
| 14:33.10 | Writchie | specifically designed for mobile devices |
| 14:33.21 | Writchie | with power constraints |
| 14:33.27 | dcordes | I think since there is no power at all on the moko |
| 14:33.37 | dcordes | that does pretty much not have any relevance |
| 14:33.38 | Writchie | and the need to switch back and forth from host to device |
| 14:33.44 | dcordes | s/moko/neo |
| 14:33.52 | DPThought | Writchie: aaahh. now i get it |
| 14:34.07 | dcordes | there are some mobile devices which have a certain power output |
| 14:34.10 | ecraven | is octobre still ok for GTA02? |
| 14:34.20 | dcordes | although very low only- like some sharp zaurus |
| 14:34.29 | SpeedEvil | October is the official date. |
| 14:34.34 | SpeedEvil | There is some doubt. |
| 14:34.42 | DPThought | oh, is OTG no-power or low-power? |
| 14:34.59 | ecraven | and hardware will not change any more after gta02 until release? |
| 14:35.00 | Writchie | negotiable power IIRC |
| 14:35.23 | ScaredyCat | Kensan: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Scummvm |
| 14:35.27 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:36.03 | diego71 | there is a page dedicated to build software for neo? |
| 14:36.33 | *** join/#openmoko mintee_ (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 14:36.35 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:36.41 | DPThought | diego71: wiki.openmoko.org |
| 14:37.07 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: yeah, saw that. |
| 14:37.15 | diego71 | i suppose... but till now i just some sparse information... |
| 14:37.20 | diego71 | *see some |
| 14:37.24 | ScaredyCat | i just added it |
| 14:37.31 | mintee_ | should I get GSM 1900 or GSM 850 for my openmoko.. I know 3G isn't supported yet |
| 14:37.32 | mintee_ | ? |
| 14:38.07 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: I will add a comment about monkey2 |
| 14:38.21 | Writchie | mintee_: where are you? |
| 14:38.24 | ScaredyCat | yah.. and any other issues :0 |
| 14:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@91.7.235.91) |
| 14:38.38 | mintee_ | Writchie, philadelphia |
| 14:38.57 | Writchie | t-mobile is 1900 only and is known to work. |
| 14:39.02 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: there's 2 games that are freely available. |
| 14:39.07 | DPThought | ScaredyCat: niiiice. I'm ot sure the screen will be big enough. It was very dificult to us the stylus even on the N770, which has a bigger screen. But no device with screen will ever be complite without scumvm. :) |
| 14:39.32 | Writchie | AT&T is mixed 850 / 1900 but I've not seen anyone confirming that 850 is actually working. |
| 14:39.37 | XorA | Neo is quad band AFAIK so should connect to any netowrk |
| 14:39.49 | Writchie | Also known problems at the moment with AT&T SIM Cards - see wiki |
| 14:40.06 | mintee_ | cool, then i'll start looking for the cheapest t-mobile phone i can get.. |
| 14:40.17 | ScaredyCat | Kensan: what are they, and where are they |
| 14:40.27 | mintee_ | so i can get a damn sim card... so sad i have to buy a phone for it |
| 14:40.31 | ScaredyCat | DPThought: it's a little tricky :) |
| 14:40.35 | mintee_ | brb |
| 14:40.46 | ScaredyCat | no escape or F5 |
| 14:41.00 | Writchie | pre-paid t-mobile SIMs in US do not permit data AFAIK |
| 14:41.16 | DPThought | http://openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html [2.5G GSM – quad band, voice, CSD, GPRS] |
| 14:41.54 | Writchie | DPThought: the FCC test reports show testing only at 1900 and above. |
| 14:42.25 | Writchie | DPThought: this plus strange behavious on AT&T networks, inbound calls only, raises some suspicions. |
| 14:43.02 | torpor | rwhitby: i gotta get off the 'net - quick question: is there a way pre-load all required packaages for a complete build with the new Makefile? |
| 14:43.05 | Writchie | Before entering a service contract, its helpful to have confirmation that it is going to work. |
| 14:43.12 | DPThought | well, i don't have any specific insight . Only what is on the net. |
| 14:43.53 | Writchie | I understand. Sometimes what is on the net or the wiki is wrong or misleading. |
| 14:44.03 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:44.27 | Writchie | US, unfortunately, is not normal case for GSM |
| 14:44.31 | XorA | it works fine with t-mobile UK |
| 14:44.49 | Writchie | I'm sure it does |
| 14:45.01 | Writchie | it works fine on t-mobile USA |
| 14:45.12 | DPThought | Writchie: i just expect gsm to work anywhere besies maybe japan. But that is probably european gsm chauvinism :) |
| 14:45.13 | Writchie | well not fine, but works as |
| 14:45.33 | Writchie | GSM works everywhere the operator implements GSM |
| 14:46.07 | Writchie | unfortunately, in the US the tower spacing (for 800) is unsuitable for GSM 1900 |
| 14:46.29 | Writchie | GSM 1800/1900 were intended as overlays to increase capacity. |
| 14:46.31 | ecraven | yay for scummvm! |
| 14:46.40 | XorA | but luckilly the SIM has no cares on the transmition frequency |
| 14:47.03 | Writchie | but the radio does |
| 14:47.15 | XorA | and the radio is quad band |
| 14:47.29 | Writchie | we think and hope it works quad band |
| 14:48.08 | XorA | 800 is only a smill diff from 900 which is the standard in .eu |
| 14:48.15 | DPThought | it is quad. But i don't know if thiw means it would work everywhere |
| 14:48.40 | Writchie | should work and works are two different things |
| 14:48.47 | XorA | anywhere that is not using GSM-400 |
| 14:48.55 | Writchie | the chipset is designed for quadband |
| 14:49.05 | Writchie | the antenna, i hope, is quadband |
| 14:49.12 | DPThought | i remember harald welte pointing it out, that it is quat and should work everywhere, at a speak on the chaos camp last week |
| 14:49.39 | Writchie | the reaons why the FCC test reports omit 850 is what raises the greatest concern - combined with the silence from FIC about it. |
| 14:50.03 | DPThought | Writchie: but who cares. Making calls does not work at the moment anyway. :) |
| 14:50.12 | Writchie | making calls works fine |
| 14:50.22 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-69-37.web.vodafone.de) |
| 14:50.27 | XorA | making calls worked since BV2 |
| 14:50.27 | Writchie | from the command line ;) |
| 14:50.28 | DPThought | Writchie: ... on the shell |
| 14:50.48 | DPThought | Writchie: and with lots of audio feedback |
| 14:50.50 | Writchie | this is a developer preview |
| 14:50.57 | Writchie | its not a phone |
| 14:50.59 | DPThought | no complaining :) |
| 14:51.14 | XorA | the feed back is a one finger operation to fix |
| 14:51.22 | DPThought | but atm i cound not care less about the gsm part *g8 |
| 14:51.25 | XorA | just set Amp Mode in mixer to Handset Speaker |
| 14:51.43 | XorA | just when I did the state files the phone I have had a broken speaker |
| 14:52.06 | Writchie | XorA: have you posted a state file that works? |
| 14:52.29 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: added info about Monkey 2. Maybe you should mention that F5 is mapped to AUX which is needed to access the menu. |
| 14:52.30 | DPThought | XorA: i yust leave phone integration to the experts and care for things i can really fix :) |
| 14:52.36 | XorA | Writchie: no, Im busy and havent powered the phone up for weeks, but I keep telling people, its not my fault open source is failing here |
| 14:52.55 | ScaredyCat | aahh good - didn't know that :D |
| 14:53.19 | Writchie | the problem is the time to investigate this ALSA stuff is signficant for someone not familiar with it. |
| 14:53.40 | XorA | load state file, find Amp Mode, change setting |
| 14:54.03 | Writchie | there's like 97 controls |
| 14:54.13 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: see http://www.scummvm.org/downloads.php#extras for games. |
| 14:54.43 | XorA | in fact in state file I have here which is the one I originally loaded it is set correct |
| 14:54.50 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@62.73.65.2) |
| 14:54.55 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[USB_Networking]] [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Scummvm]] [[User_talk:PTT]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[User_talk:Tingo]] [[MacOS_X]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Carriers]] |
| 14:55.03 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 14:55.10 | Writchie | XorA: is that posted anywhere |
| 14:55.37 | XorA | http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmhandset.working.state |
| 14:55.54 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: you need to change permissions on the files. |
| 14:56.06 | Writchie | I think I tried that one to no avail, but I will try it again. |
| 14:56.11 | Writchie | XorA: thanks |
| 14:56.37 | ScaredyCat | oops |
| 14:56.39 | ScaredyCat | ta Kensan |
| 14:57.08 | Writchie | XorA: the headset state worked fine |
| 14:58.03 | XorA | Writchie: diff the two states |
| 14:58.49 | XorA | Writchie: it looks to me like Amp Mode is Off in the state file on Neo, that is bad |
| 14:58.56 | XorA | should be Call Speaker |
| 14:58.57 | *** join/#openmoko balthamaisteri (n=balthama@statip-80-95-130-149.kopteri.net) |
| 14:59.57 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 15:00.12 | XorA | Writchie: ignore that last, I looked at wrong file |
| 15:00.26 | Writchie | it looks on |
| 15:01.06 | ScaredyCat | should be sorted Kensan |
| 15:01.23 | Writchie | XorA: are you going to be around for a bit? |
| 15:01.40 | XorA | Writchie: I think it could be volume problems with handset state |
| 15:02.12 | Writchie | it's feedback and probably volume as well |
| 15:02.54 | mintee_ | ok, i'm back.. sorry to chop up the conversation... |
| 15:03.02 | Writchie | XorA: if you'll be around for bit, I can get set up for testing. I need to put SIM etc., or another time if that's more convenient. |
| 15:03.10 | mintee_ | so did we confirm that t-mobile pre-paids doens't allow data? |
| 15:03.32 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@adsl-70-142-211-13.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:03.35 | XorA | Writchie: I shall have to go through these files with the audio map again, I think these ones have mistakes, and Im not sure where they came from, Ive made so many different versions over the months |
| 15:04.00 | XorA | Writchie: time is the only thing that prevents me fixing, that should be fixed soon |
| 15:04.12 | Writchie | I'll be happy to test whatever you have. |
| 15:04.19 | Writchie | I have two neo's |
| 15:04.23 | SpeedEvil | mintee_: IUn the UK they do |
| 15:04.40 | XorA | Writchie: its more that there is the audio map to follow and find out where stuff routes |
| 15:04.45 | *** part/#openmoko Partizan (n=Partizan@mm-166-150-57-86.adsl.mgts.by) |
| 15:05.05 | SpeedEvil | 7p/Kb ($.14us), |
| 15:05.13 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@74.92.159.94) |
| 15:05.27 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 15:05.27 | Writchie | mintee_: AFAIK for t-mo us you need the $5 plan for WAP data (which does you little good) and the $30 plan to get real internet access. |
| 15:05.30 | XorA | SpeedEvil: or webnwalk which caps that at a max of 1GBP a day |
| 15:05.35 | SpeedEvil | yes - that I meant |
| 15:05.40 | SpeedEvil | to add. |
| 15:05.53 | SpeedEvil | complete thoughts. |
| 15:06.38 | mintee_ | Writchie, ouch. that's $30 on top of the voice pre-pay eh? |
| 15:06.46 | Writchie | $30 on top |
| 15:06.49 | Writchie | used to be $20 |
| 15:07.20 | Writchie | but at least it is unlimited |
| 15:07.27 | don-o | i use tmobile pre-pay. i havent seen a dataplan for that. |
| 15:07.49 | mintee_ | damn them... and I'd have to buy a phone on top of that... cause I heard in the UK providers give away SIM cards, but in the US we actually would have to buy one but it's cheaper to just get a phone |
| 15:07.59 | mintee_ | don-o, where are you located |
| 15:07.59 | Writchie | mintee_: not on top of prepay, on top of contract |
| 15:08.00 | SpeedEvil | In the UK, it's 20 pounds/month for the cheapest contract, then you can add unlimited internet for 7.50/mo |
| 15:08.14 | don-o | mintee_: currently, los angeles |
| 15:08.38 | don-o | SpeedEvil: that sounds like a great deal |
| 15:08.45 | mintee_ | SpeedEvil, yeah really. |
| 15:08.49 | XorA | that deal sounds familiar :-) |
| 15:08.51 | SpeedEvil | Alternatively. |
| 15:08.59 | Writchie | but 27.50 sterling is $55 |
| 15:09.02 | SpeedEvil | You buy a pay-as-you-go SIM. |
| 15:09.17 | SpeedEvil | And pay up to a pound a day for unlimited data. |
| 15:09.28 | SpeedEvil | 7p/kb, capped at 1 pound (136K) |
| 15:09.30 | mintee_ | not bad at all.. |
| 15:09.37 | mintee_ | and the simcard was free, right? |
| 15:09.46 | SpeedEvil | No, 50p. |
| 15:09.54 | mintee_ | oh |
| 15:10.14 | *** join/#openmoko DregNET (n=thore@d83-183-202-35.cust.tele2.se) |
| 15:10.55 | don-o | SpeedEvil: this probably sounds terribly ignorant but isnt england using the euro? |
| 15:10.59 | Writchie | t-mo USA also has free unlimited through your home gateway if you get the right phone |
| 15:11.02 | SpeedEvil | No, not yet. |
| 15:11.15 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-17-68.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:11.26 | nibbler_de | home gateway? |
| 15:11.30 | ScaredyCat | Kensan: aux != f5 for me |
| 15:11.38 | Writchie | you DSL or cable broadband |
| 15:11.48 | Writchie | it runs GSM protocol through the internet |
| 15:11.53 | mintee_ | Writchie, that's on a contract plan though, right? |
| 15:11.56 | nibbler_de | ah, that sick stuff |
| 15:11.57 | Writchie | yup |
| 15:12.22 | SpeedEvil | Can't roam with SIP. |
| 15:12.33 | ScaredyCat | of course you can |
| 15:12.41 | nibbler_de | why should i want to "roam"? |
| 15:12.43 | Writchie | UMA is seamless switch over |
| 15:12.58 | nibbler_de | i don't need seamless switch over |
| 15:13.05 | SpeedEvil | You start a call on your wireless router over the internet, walk out the door, and it continues on GSM. |
| 15:13.05 | Writchie | good for you |
| 15:13.15 | SpeedEvil | For some people that's a vital use-case. |
| 15:13.24 | juco | the interesting kicker with the t-mobile is how the billing works |
| 15:13.35 | juco | they bill you based on what network you start your call on |
| 15:13.53 | roh | nibbler_de not everybody has as cheap plans as we do and calls on gsm instead of using dect or other shortrange services for 300meter |
| 15:14.08 | juco | so if you start a call on wifi, but then switch over to the cell network, its free |
| 15:14.10 | nibbler_de | maybe, yeah. |
| 15:14.23 | Writchie | juco: they will plug such holes |
| 15:14.30 | Writchie | no free lunch |
| 15:14.37 | juco | Writchie, it works the other way too |
| 15:14.48 | Writchie | good to know |
| 15:14.50 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 15:14.55 | roh | nibbler_de btw... still in big b? |
| 15:14.59 | juco | if you start on the cell network, but then switch to wifi, they charge the whole thing as a cell call |
| 15:15.01 | nibbler_de | uhuh |
| 15:15.06 | nibbler_de | roh: until mo/di next week ;) |
| 15:15.17 | juco | they advertise this |
| 15:15.26 | Writchie | juco: i suspect this is a limitation of their current billing system |
| 15:15.29 | juco | yeah |
| 15:15.44 | nibbler_de | i probably will schedule a date with mme. jasinska this week (the older mme. jasinska that is) |
| 15:15.49 | juco | whether they fix it or not, will probably depend on what it ends up costing them |
| 15:16.12 | roh | nibbler_de heh.. me too *sigh* |
| 15:16.12 | Writchie | they still have costs when the call switches over |
| 15:16.16 | Writchie | unless its on-net |
| 15:16.36 | Writchie | but the LD side is virtually free anyway. |
| 15:16.53 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: do you get the ScummVM when you press AUX in-game? |
| 15:18.46 | *** join/#openmoko radiorental (n=radioren@ip-151-104-122-159.corp.ne.3com.com) |
| 15:19.11 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: the F5 = AUX assignement is done (via xmodmap) in the openmoko-scummvm script. |
| 15:23.33 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177612284.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:24.25 | radiorental | linux noob needs help: jsut got the phone, need to flash it. I downloaded the dfu-util binary, how does I makes it run? (hangs head in shame) |
| 15:24.48 | ScaredyCat | ahhhhhh |
| 15:25.00 | ScaredyCat | ok, I was calling scummvm |
| 15:25.03 | CM | radiorental: Did you check the wiki? |
| 15:25.14 | radiorental | followed the wiki |
| 15:25.19 | jr0m | radiorental: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 15:25.24 | radiorental | yup |
| 15:25.32 | jr0m | are you on a linux box.osx.or.xp |
| 15:25.45 | CM | 64bit? |
| 15:26.07 | radiorental | ubuntu |
| 15:26.10 | radiorental | bash: dfu-util: command not found |
| 15:26.22 | Kensan | try ./dfu-util |
| 15:26.26 | jr0m | put it in your path or use ./dfu-util to call it |
| 15:26.34 | radiorental | are you saying that dfu-util.bin should just become a command? |
| 15:26.55 | radiorental | ok - thanks, will try that, I'm in the same dir |
| 15:26.56 | jr0m | also when i flashed mine from the aux/power boot i had to insert the usb cable several times till the DFU mode kicked in |
| 15:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 15:27.09 | XorA | and dotn use a hub |
| 15:27.32 | jr0m | radiorental make sure to chmod +x dfu-util.bin |
| 15:27.54 | radiorental | I'm not getting that far, dfu-util is not a recognised command, again I'm a linux noob so I thought there might have been something else to do to make the binary and executable command |
| 15:28.07 | jr0m | chmod +x ./dfu-util |
| 15:28.12 | jr0m | that makes it executable |
| 15:28.17 | radiorental | thank jrom - thats what I was looking for |
| 15:28.41 | radiorental | sorry, I'm a gui designer, incase you're wondering wtf I'm doing with this thing - thanks all for your help |
| 15:28.44 | CIA-20 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2708 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c): |
| 15:28.44 | CIA-20 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: (_moko_stock_add_icon): Add a hack to make sure we |
| 15:28.44 | CIA-20 | openmoko: at least have a version of the icons available at each possible GtkIconSize |
| 15:28.48 | CM | radiorental: Also, remember to press the aux button a few times to keep the phone alive while it's plugged in |
| 15:29.10 | jr0m | yer welcome radio. i am happy that people are working on this |
| 15:29.14 | CM | At least before the flashing starts |
| 15:31.13 | radiorental | jr0m: no worky )o; pauric@pauric-desktop:~/Desktop$ ls |
| 15:31.13 | radiorental | dfu-util |
| 15:31.13 | radiorental | openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070612040932.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 15:31.13 | radiorental | uImage-2.6.21.3-moko10-r3_0_0_2189_0-fic-gta01.bin |
| 15:31.13 | radiorental | pauric@pauric-desktop:~/Desktop$ sudo chmod +x ./dfu-util |
| 15:31.14 | radiorental | pauric@pauric-desktop:~/Desktop$ dfu-util |
| 15:31.16 | radiorental | bash: dfu-util: command not found |
| 15:31.18 | radiorental | pauric@pauric-desktop:~/Desktop$ |
| 15:31.24 | jr0m | ./dfu-util |
| 15:31.32 | jr0m | from the dir you are in |
| 15:31.48 | CM | radiorental: Also, that looks like an old build |
| 15:31.50 | jr0m | you need to use "./" to run a binary not in your path |
| 15:31.52 | radiorental | doh! (o; thnx |
| 15:32.08 | CM | I'd suggest flashing a newer one |
| 15:32.09 | jr0m | get a newer image too |
| 15:32.24 | jr0m | im using gta01-20070803091138 |
| 15:32.26 | radiorental | CM: grabbed from latest, will go back and look again |
| 15:32.36 | radiorental | thnx both! |
| 15:32.50 | Kensan | radiorental: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 15:33.06 | Kensan | radiorental: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin |
| 15:33.17 | jr0m | anyone tried using with USA Cingular |
| 15:33.18 | jr0m | ? |
| 15:33.41 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 15:36.04 | juco | jr0m, http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666 |
| 15:36.52 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: don't you have a entry in the menu under Games? |
| 15:37.08 | ScaredyCat | I just added it myself |
| 15:37.24 | ScaredyCat | well, I added it after installing... |
| 15:37.40 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: it should create one automatically. |
| 15:37.40 | ScaredyCat | but I didn;t see any other entry there |
| 15:38.43 | ScaredyCat | I only have scummvm.desktop which i created... |
| 15:38.56 | ScaredyCat | maybe I wasn't paying attention :/ |
| 15:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-75-53-38-106.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:39.54 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: it should automatically create the appropriate entry in the "main" menu under Games. |
| 15:40.11 | jr0m | thanks juco |
| 15:41.11 | *** join/#openmoko cybaea (n=cybaea@83.104.193.12) |
| 15:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-11-254.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 15:45.15 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: say, does 2007.2 yet ask you for a PIN on its own? |
| 15:45.26 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178068124.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:45.42 | rxr | depends which image data etc ... |
| 15:46.00 | *** join/#openmoko morpheus (n=morpheus@DSL01.83.171.185.178.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 15:48.17 | *** join/#openmoko shackan (n=frob@host68-150-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:49.43 | *** join/#openmoko lekter2 (n=e-topic@212.166.194.184) |
| 15:52.03 | *** join/#openmoko meus (n=bjartka@kremt.pvv.ntnu.no) |
| 15:55.17 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 15:57.05 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 16:03.12 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@ip-90-187-151-116.web.vodafone.de) |
| 16:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko |R (i=bob@modemcable241.28-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:06.06 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 16:09.29 | ixs | mhm. fun. .2 and the icon bar on the top disappears when selecting power on |
| 16:10.17 | thomasg | ixs, call it by the name: it doesn't disappear, it crashes :) |
| 16:11.11 | ixs | thomasg: :-) |
| 16:11.35 | ixs | thomasg: I actually first wrote crashes, considered, deleted it and wrote disappears instead. :D |
| 16:12.15 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: How to rebuild xorg-xserver |
| 16:12.57 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 16:13.22 | ferric | what gsm provider are people in the US using with the Neo's? (re: post on -community) |
| 16:14.26 | SpeedEvil | ' |
| 16:14.28 | SpeedEvil | Nokia has identified that in very rare cases the affected batteries could potentially experience over heating initiated by a short circuit while charging, causing the battery to dislodge. Nokia is working closely with relevant local authorities to investigate this situation. ' |
| 16:14.41 | SpeedEvil | What the hell does that mean. |
| 16:14.49 | SpeedEvil | Does it mean that if it's shorted, it can overheat? |
| 16:15.03 | woglinde | speedevil the know it and didnt say until some batteries blow up |
| 16:15.37 | ixs | woglinde: but thoese were surely some 3rd party ripp-offs from china or something, amirite? :-> |
| 16:15.47 | woglinde | ixs no original |
| 16:15.49 | SpeedEvil | No, OEM. |
| 16:15.55 | SpeedEvil | Some with phones. |
| 16:16.00 | woglinde | ixs maybee manufactured in the same fabric |
| 16:16.03 | woglinde | who knows |
| 16:16.21 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 16:16.24 | woglinde | fuck |
| 16:16.27 | ixs | okay. I'll just repeat that "amirite" is something akin to "!!!!1111!!1111!11" thus indicating a joke. |
| 16:16.31 | ixs | you can laugh now. :D |
| 16:16.38 | woglinde | why I didnt by vmware stocks |
| 16:18.25 | jgm | woglinde: so go buy now, the market is open |
| 16:18.32 | woglinde | jgm lol |
| 16:18.37 | DPThought | is it planned to give openmoko applications a (context) menu like the one in the titlebar of maemo apps? I think this would be very much needed for conetext sensitive stuff and most of all for copy&pase stuff. |
| 16:18.42 | woglinde | you know how the market works |
| 16:19.11 | DPThought | klicking in the title bar brings uo menu in openmoko. but with only one entry, the home screen afaik |
| 16:19.21 | jgm | woglinde: yep and if they were a good buy yesterday they're a good buy today |
| 16:19.31 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178197102.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:20.17 | jgm | Or buy EMC, there must be some drag-along in there that the market isn't showing (for some weird reason) |
| 16:20.33 | woglinde | jgm no now its to late and to risky |
| 16:21.02 | jgm | I remember people saying that about Google the day after it floated |
| 16:21.10 | jgm | (And Brocade, if you can remember that far back) |
| 16:21.15 | DPThought | ERROR: '/home/tilli/moko/openembedded/packages/linux/linux-gta01_2.6.21.5.bb' failed |
| 16:21.18 | jgm | (And actually a bunch of other stocks, but hey :)) |
| 16:21.35 | DPThought | Strangely this happens while building glibc. And i see no output for this problem |
| 16:22.22 | *** join/#openmoko shackan (n=frob@host254-199-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:22.35 | DPThought | oh, i see. glibc is done. maybe linux-gta01 would be the nex receipe. But how can i check what is wrong without output? |
| 16:22.56 | pH5 | DPThought: look in work/linux-gta01-2.6.21.5/temp/log.* for the error |
| 16:25.49 | DPThought | pH5: thx |
| 16:27.00 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:28.03 | jr0m | interesting i have a 63698A 1002 SIM, wiki says it should work. Do i need to use the commandline string to test dialing? |
| 16:28.39 | DPThought | pH5: cant file such file. should that be build/tmp/work/ (new MakeFile) |
| 16:29.00 | woglinde | jr0m try it |
| 16:29.08 | woglinde | but dont forget to stp the dialer before |
| 16:29.22 | jr0m | ty woglinde |
| 16:29.54 | jr0m | i got my openmoko last night. this is my first hour with it |
| 16:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko bronson (n=bronson@adsl-76-202-198-213.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:30.51 | woglinde | jr0m than read the wiki read the wiki and ask when something is not in the wiki *g* |
| 16:31.43 | jr0m | yup. sorry to spam |
| 16:32.25 | woglinde | *g* |
| 16:32.28 | woglinde | no prob |
| 16:32.51 | jr0m | ahhh i just found the entry for Manually using GSM. thank you wiki |
| 16:33.01 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:33.20 | woglinde | ScaredyCat *g* |
| 16:33.26 | mjr | blackbox is pretty addictive too... |
| 16:33.29 | pH5 | DPThought: yes, that would be it. |
| 16:34.00 | woglinde | a pinball game where nice |
| 16:35.34 | pH5 | woglinde: for that I'd need the accelerometers though :) |
| 16:35.43 | woglinde | ph5 yes *g* |
| 16:36.15 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@62.73.65.2) |
| 16:36.52 | CM | (And yes, it did tilt..) |
| 16:37.02 | woglinde | cm lol |
| 16:37.13 | DPThought | pH5: oh, i think there is a bug in the makefile. Maybe that is causing it. thank you |
| 16:37.15 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: Open Hardware |
| 16:37.51 | DPThought | rwhitby: ERROR: opening /home/tilli/moko/oe/packages/*/*.bb: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/tilli/moko/oe/packages/*/*.bb' |
| 16:38.11 | DPThought | rwhitby: there is no dir in my moko dir |
| 16:38.35 | DPThought | rwhitby: i mean no 'oe' dir |
| 16:39.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 708 has been created by kresp0(AT)yahoo.es |
| 16:39.02 | cdbot2 | * * when ask for PIN, the number sign key (#) must work as "OK" |
| 16:39.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=708 |
| 16:39.06 | radiorental | I have my phone up and running with a t-mob sim card, but no volume, known issue? |
| 16:39.21 | woglinde | radiorental alsamixer |
| 16:39.27 | radiorental | thnx |
| 16:39.31 | woglinde | per default all is mute |
| 16:40.01 | xkr47 | how do I turn on the backlight manually ? |
| 16:40.43 | woglinde | xkr47 should be in the wiki |
| 16:40.48 | woglinde | at powersavings |
| 16:43.33 | radiorental | woglinde: how do I configure it, got it running in the terminal but dont know how to navigate it |
| 16:43.38 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D837E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:43.53 | woglinde | radiorental open the the keyboard |
| 16:43.56 | radiorental | yup |
| 16:43.58 | woglinde | but the second one |
| 16:44.06 | woglinde | with the up down keys |
| 16:44.08 | radiorental | yup |
| 16:44.23 | woglinde | ah |
| 16:44.24 | woglinde | try m |
| 16:44.30 | woglinde | for mute/unmute |
| 16:44.37 | woglinde | than up down keys and right left |
| 16:46.35 | radiorental | sorry, me stupid, not seeing any keyboard with direction keys: caps, small, numeric, special char and a null button |
| 16:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 16:47.00 | *** join/#openmoko henla464_ (n=henla464@c-5863e455.019-357-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 16:47.09 | jseghers | hi everyone |
| 16:48.28 | jseghers | I am trying to rebuild OpenMoko. I did the make update-makefile and make setup again. Now I'm getting patch problems with uboot's include/asm-arm/mach-types.h |
| 16:50.20 | jseghers | anyone know how to get around this? |
| 16:50.36 | xkr47 | the actual_brightness says 0 |
| 16:50.41 | ScaredyCat | inverted |
| 16:50.55 | xkr47 | hmm when I pressed the power button now, the screen turned on |
| 16:50.56 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley (n=bmidgley@242.sub-75-216-41.myvzw.com) |
| 16:52.22 | SpeedEvil | main screen turn on? |
| 16:52.24 | *** part/#openmoko RubberHound (n=dany@IGLD-83-130-222-201.inter.net.il) |
| 16:52.34 | xkr47 | :D |
| 16:52.44 | ScaredyCat | We got signal? |
| 16:53.03 | xkr47 | s/got/get/ |
| 16:53.16 | xkr47 | or hmm how was it :) |
| 16:53.39 | ScaredyCat | get |
| 16:54.00 | ScaredyCat | What happen? |
| 16:54.02 | ScaredyCat | Somebody set up us the bomb |
| 16:54.29 | ScaredyCat | we get signal! |
| 16:54.31 | xkr47 | the moko :) |
| 16:54.47 | rxr | ? |
| 16:54.55 | xkr47 | rxr, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us |
| 16:54.55 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Scroll-wheel_%28side-mounted%29]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Touch_strip_sensor_%28side-mounted%29]] [[Scummvm]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User_talk:THe_IkkE]] and other changes |
| 16:55.55 | ScaredyCat | http://www.allyourbase.com |
| 16:55.59 | xkr47 | cd /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl ; for i in `seq 5194 -100 0` `seq 0 100 5194` ; do echo $i > brightness ; done |
| 16:56.04 | xkr47 | :) |
| 16:56.19 | ScaredyCat | whooaa. it's dead |
| 16:56.35 | xkr47 | what you say! |
| 16:56.50 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:56.53 | SpeedEvil | On my neo, 204 is '0' approximately. |
| 16:56.55 | DPThought | did anyone ever used the http://www.frogpad.com/? I think i need a small (wareable?) bluetooth keyboard in the next future... |
| 16:57.05 | xkr47 | brightness ? |
| 16:57.05 | ScaredyCat | make your time |
| 16:57.34 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 16:57.47 | SpeedEvil | 206 is clearly visible (in the dark) |
| 16:57.52 | SpeedEvil | 200 is black. |
| 16:57.58 | ScaredyCat | DPThought: I'm too old to re-learn how to type |
| 16:58.02 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@84.179.163.53) |
| 16:58.46 | xkr47 | 206 sure, but dunno if I can read it |
| 16:58.52 | xkr47 | (console) |
| 16:58.53 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@84.179.163.53) |
| 16:58.54 | jseghers | Repeat: I am trying to rebuild OpenMoko. I did the make update-makefile and make setup again. Now I'm getting patch problems with uboot's include/asm-arm/mach-types.h |
| 16:59.03 | ScaredyCat | 206 is pitch black for me |
| 16:59.18 | SpeedEvil | 206 or so by memory |
| 16:59.21 | SpeedEvil | it's around there. |
| 17:00.06 | ScaredyCat | 216 ? |
| 17:00.29 | DPThought | ScaredyCat: same here, i think. i can use a new way to hack on my keybard (i'm using a typematrix board right now) but it whould at least have querty. |
| 17:00.45 | DPThought | s/whould/should/ |
| 17:00.54 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 17:01.22 | DPThought | apt: ;) |
| 17:01.22 | apt | (: |
| 17:02.07 | ScaredyCat | 2500 is way bright enough indoors |
| 17:02.09 | DPThought | i tried learning dvorak. It did not work. I think i will just continue hating qwerty the rest of my live :) |
| 17:02.50 | ScaredyCat | i don;t hate qwerty.... |
| 17:02.55 | ScaredyCat | it's all i know |
| 17:03.01 | xkr47 | yeah, 2500 is nice |
| 17:03.08 | ScaredyCat | none of that weird foreign azerty shite |
| 17:03.33 | Kensan | jseghers: can you pastebin the error-log? |
| 17:06.24 | thomasg | DPThought, if you try the frogpad, tell me the results :) |
| 17:07.06 | DPThought | ScaredyCat: qwerty is definitely the coders layout. It is inefficient and designet for mechanical constrains on typewriters. But it's at least way better than let's say the germen layout (qwertz). As long as coders have to use []{}&*()$@ all the time, us layout is just the best way to go. But i still hate it for it's impropriety, i'm just not using a typewriter any more. :) |
| 17:07.30 | DPThought | thomasg: the price tag is a bit high for a trial |
| 17:08.00 | thomasg | DPThought, that was also my opinion - nevertheless the concept is interesting |
| 17:08.17 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k963.webspeed.dk) |
| 17:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-202-196.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 17:10.01 | DPThought | oh, i have to go. My colleague is waiting. We will watch "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" open ait. Should be fun but we are not yet drunk... |
| 17:10.17 | DPThought | cya |
| 17:10.24 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@dsl081-011-210.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:11.18 | jseghers | Kensan: I'm currently using Trillian for my IRC client... can't see a way to paste the error as a file. |
| 17:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z62cc.z.pppool.de) |
| 17:13.42 | Kensan | jseghers: pastebin.ca |
| 17:14.21 | Kensan | jseghers: or pastebin.com |
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| 17:15.06 | jseghers | Kensan... switching to xchat on my linux box... be back in a moment. |
| 17:15.10 | *** part/#openmoko jseghers (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
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| 17:19.46 | jseghers | Kensan: OK... I didn't realize what pastebin was... here's the error: |
| 17:19.47 | jseghers | http://pastebin.com/m22be0eaf |
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| 17:32.29 | ynezz | jseghers: either put BBMASK="uboot" in build/conf/local.conf (this says bitbake to not build uboot) or update your environment -- you can find instructions how to do so on wiki for MokoMakefile |
| 17:34.57 | jseghers | ynezz: I did update the environment (unless you're saying to move to 2007.2?) I see at the bottom of the MokoMakefile page it suggests using a specific Revision of U-boot... How do I modifiy the .bb to use that specific revision? |
| 17:35.25 | jseghers | ynezz: never mind... I think I just found an example. |
| 17:37.15 | ynezz | if you're not hacking on uboot you don't need it to built it anyway... |
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| 17:40.41 | jseghers | ynezz: OK. I won't worry about it...but it does seem to be building now using rev. cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41 |
| 17:41.38 | jseghers | ynezz: I'm due to get my neo today, so I'm rebuilding to make sure I've got a current image including the stuff I'm working on :) |
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| 17:47.23 | jseghers | Thanks for the help! bye now... |
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| 17:57.47 | J-23 | OpenMoko is slow on QEmu :( |
| 17:58.11 | Basheri | indeed |
| 18:01.41 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-198-104.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 18:01.58 | sannes | OpenMoko is slow on Neo1973 P1 too :P |
| 18:05.12 | J-23 | ;) |
| 18:07.00 | mjr | I was actually pleasantly surprised that Moko was faster on the actual hardware than my AMD64X2 4400+ |
| 18:07.09 | mjr | (when using qemu, 'course) |
| 18:11.16 | *** join/#openmoko phrozen77 (n=phrozen7@unaffiliated/phrozen77) |
| 18:11.17 | rxr | damn Neo phonoe battery drains in one day even if the phone is "off", ??? |
| 18:11.52 | xkr47 | same here, was wondering if some device is accidentally left on |
| 18:12.20 | mjr | again, the gsm module can be left off even if the linux system is down |
| 18:12.25 | mjr | left on |
| 18:12.34 | xkr47 | again.. :) |
| 18:12.35 | Fatal | is there some kind of holiday where FIC are? |
| 18:12.43 | mjr | needs to be deliberately turned off |
| 18:12.59 | Fatal | they asked me to send in new CC, sent it in, then 1 week silence :/ |
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| 18:34.02 | mellon | rxr: if you want to avoid that, pull the battery out for ten seconds after you power down. |
| 18:34.20 | mellon | what's going on is that the power management chip stays live after shutdown, and slowly drains the battery. |
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| 18:43.45 | xamindar | hello openmokians! |
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| 18:46.32 | mellon | greets! |
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| 18:53.29 | mintee_ | NICE |
| 18:53.33 | mintee_ | just got my neo in |
| 18:53.49 | mintee_ | boots straight to a kernel panic... that was to be expected though... :D |
| 18:53.51 | rxr | mellon: normal phones have a standby time of a week and a switched off time of a month or so .. |
| 18:53.55 | mintee_ | very nice piece of hardware |
| 18:54.04 | rxr | of much µA does the PMU chip draw ? :-) |
| 18:54.07 | mellon | rxr: I'm just telling you why it's happening, not saying it's correct. |
| 18:54.15 | rxr | probably the GSM is left on by the kernel right now or so |
| 18:54.17 | mellon | rxr: I think the number bandied about was 10ma. |
| 18:54.23 | jr0m | mintee you gotta flashit |
| 18:54.41 | rxr | m as in milli ? |
| 18:54.43 | rxr | that is much |
| 18:54.44 | mintee_ | jr0m, yeah, i figured something like that... i'm going to read up some moor on the wiki |
| 18:54.45 | rxr | for a PMU |
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| 18:55.13 | mellon | yeah, I think it's not being shut down properly. but this is just based on some stuff that went by a couple of days ago; someone probably knows better by now. |
| 18:55.35 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wishlist:NeoMidiTracker]] [[Current_events]] |
| 18:55.53 | jr0m | mintee: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1 |
| 18:56.08 | jr0m | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
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| 18:57.00 | mintee_ | thanks jr0m |
| 18:57.17 | radiorental | question, intermittently when I try to 'power on the gsm antenna' the whole taskbar dissappears. How can I recover that without rebooting? thnx |
| 18:57.53 | jr0m | ssh is your friend radiorental |
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| 18:59.04 | radiorental | thanks jr0m (o; |
| 18:59.15 | jr0m | j/k sorry |
| 19:01.32 | radiorental | known issue or just me? |
| 19:02.26 | lukhas_nowhere | I have the same |
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| 19:03.30 | rxr | radiorental: that is a bug that happens from what I saw when you have no SIM or no compatible SIM in the device |
| 19:04.32 | radiorental | rxr, interesting. The sim card has worked. But with the taskbar bombs, the sim card isnt 'working' |
| 19:04.41 | *** part/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-11-254.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:05.12 | radiorental | that is, it wont pick up a signal. Its a straight t-mob sim |
| 19:05.30 | radiorental | been dialing/receiving since getting the phone up and running |
| 19:06.09 | radiorental | rxr: but thanks, that explains a few things. |
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| 19:07.01 | jr0m | wow this build system is nice. goodwork OpenMoko |
| 19:07.02 | rxr | radiorental: your welcome |
| 19:07.14 | rxr | OE and nice ? |
| 19:07.59 | jr0m | yes, i just built it up on ubuntu 7.04, it just seems more polished than my gumstix toolchain buildroot system |
| 19:08.13 | ferric | are you using t-mobile pay as you go or post-paid? |
| 19:08.25 | ferric | jr0m: using mokomakefile? |
| 19:08.29 | jr0m | yup |
| 19:08.32 | rxr | jr0m: http://www.t2-project.org/ |
| 19:09.04 | radiorental | ferric, pay as you go |
| 19:09.07 | jr0m | hmm. neeto |
| 19:09.59 | jr0m | this might call for a new VM for T2 |
| 19:10.06 | jr0m | thanks rxr |
| 19:10.10 | rxr | VM ? |
| 19:10.20 | jr0m | virtual machine. i use parallels |
| 19:10.28 | rxr | haha, yeah |
| 19:13.01 | mintee_ | so all the devices are GTA01Bv4 ? |
| 19:13.13 | radiorental | Anyone know which item in alsmixer controls the internal speaker, cant seem to unmute it - thanks |
| 19:14.03 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 19:14.09 | jeddy3 | radiorental: "amp mode" |
| 19:14.15 | radiorental | rxr: fwiw I rebooted and powered up the antenna OK, so I think its not really a case of no/bad sim... |
| 19:14.23 | radiorental | thanks jeddy3 |
| 19:14.24 | jr0m | rxr: are you using t2/neo on yer omoko? |
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| 19:14.59 | rxr | jr0m: yes, I already have a uClibC based system on the SD |
| 19:15.25 | rxr | radiorental: aha - for me the panel always crashed when there was no compatbiel or no SIM |
| 19:15.40 | rxr | jr0m: but it takes some more days until we have a full UI stack |
| 19:15.46 | rxr | but I'll not use the moko widgets |
| 19:15.55 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-198-104.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 19:15.57 | rxr | I do not like the reinvention of yet another Gtk+ wheel |
| 19:16.15 | rxr | aside GPE comes to mind, we'll also in-house write EFL (E17) applications |
| 19:16.38 | rxr | jr0m: T2 is already in quite wide use as you can imagine from the news feed |
| 19:16.58 | rxr | but not yet on phones, that is why I got us the Neo, as a T2 testbed ... |
| 19:17.22 | rxr | cu - have to run for dinner :-) |
| 19:17.28 | rxr | 9pm here in Germany |
| 19:17.45 | jr0m | yes i liked rasterman's work with evas/e17 |
| 19:18.42 | thomasg | rxr: how's the efl-work going forward? |
| 19:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko lekter2 (n=e-topic@212.166.208.19) |
| 19:21.57 | radiorental | rxr: what do you mean by the gtk+ wheel? |
| 19:23.55 | jr0m | rxr: so put up your SD flash image.... |
| 19:24.05 | jr0m | i have an extra 512 right here. :> |
| 19:24.18 | radiorental | rxr: also, made some calls and then it stopped. Tried to power down the antenna and the taskbar crashed. |
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| 19:28.38 | mintee_ | :( No DFU capable USB device found |
| 19:28.54 | mintee_ | anyone ever got that? |
| 19:29.14 | anrp | u-boot failed, or device off, or device has booted linux |
| 19:29.21 | anrp | or broken usb controller host side |
| 19:29.25 | lukhas_nowhere | mintee_: is dfu-util run as root ? |
| 19:29.29 | anrp | or that |
| 19:29.30 | mintee_ | yeah |
| 19:29.30 | anrp | >.> |
| 19:29.35 | mintee_ | shouldn't be root? |
| 19:29.38 | anrp | should be |
| 19:29.42 | mintee_ | hum.. |
| 19:29.50 | anrp | make sure /proc/bus/usb is mounted |
| 19:29.52 | mintee_ | could be be because host machine is a 2.4 kernal? |
| 19:29.52 | anrp | libusb uses it |
| 19:29.56 | anrp | thats probably it |
| 19:30.09 | anrp | 2.4 is a bit old D: |
| 19:30.15 | mintee_ | yeah, no /proc/bus/usb |
| 19:30.25 | anrp | won't work then |
| 19:30.26 | lukhas_nowhere | wow, 2.4... |
| 19:30.28 | mintee_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:30.32 | lukhas_nowhere | is that still allowed to run ? |
| 19:30.36 | mintee_ | lol |
| 19:30.46 | anrp | allowed? |
| 19:30.49 | anrp | ...why not? |
| 19:31.13 | lukhas_nowhere | anrp: because it's almost older than the sun |
| 19:31.19 | lukhas_nowhere | it was a joke |
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| 19:32.17 | ozarka | lukhas_nowhere: No jokes, please. This is irc. Serious business only. |
| 19:32.32 | lukhas_nowhere | :) |
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| 19:44.52 | juri_ | i have suns much older than that machine. :) |
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| 19:46.43 | anrp | i got a 2.6.11 kernel going on two years now D: so |
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| 19:49.50 | hhf423 | hmmm, does someone know why the Neo always looses its date/time? |
| 19:50.34 | vj_vj | i am in canada, does anyone know how much openmoko phone costs? and how i can get it ? pls ? |
| 19:50.54 | ME-tan | er, order it from the website? |
| 19:50.57 | Kensan | hhf423, there's no sync to hardware-clock on shutdown |
| 19:51.06 | hhf423 | ah |
| 19:51.09 | vj_vj | i can use with my carrier here ? |
| 19:51.10 | mjr | vj_vj, see topic, though there's apparently a bit of a queue at this point |
| 19:51.25 | mjr | vj_vj, if you have GSM providers, you should |
| 19:51.49 | mjr | vj_vj, though there's some issue with at least US AT&T/Cingular's some (not all) SIMs not working currently |
| 19:51.54 | Kensan | hhf423, you can use 'hwclock' (see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#Setting_date_and_time) |
| 19:52.40 | vj_vj | i will need to connect with rogers, any one had previous experience ?? |
| 19:52.45 | hhf423 | Kensan: I once tried stelling the date via ubott and it tooks the time, but after the next flash it was gone again |
| 19:54.27 | Kensan | vj_vj: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers#Canada |
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| 20:06.54 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: hwclock -w |
| 20:07.07 | SpeedEvil | in linux. |
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| 20:07.45 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: just to let you know, your 2007.1 from August 10 image did ask me for PIN and registered on the network, the 2007.2 image from today do not |
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| 20:37.11 | mobodo | if we get a GTA01, will it be possible to change order/add pieces to make it a 02 later on or are we stuck buying a full 02? |
| 20:37.11 | aloril | mobodo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:38.35 | Writchi1 | mobodo: forget this |
| 20:38.42 | mobodo | ok |
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| 20:39.11 | Writchi1 | it was discussed but its just too difficult and likely to destroy delicate parts like the lcd which is glued in |
| 20:39.34 | Writchi1 | there will probably be an ebay market for GTA01's |
| 20:39.49 | Writchi1 | they will be far from worthless when the software is further along |
| 20:40.21 | ME-tan | indeed - without wifi with stereo versions that'll run the same software |
| 20:40.26 | mobodo | sure, the hardware as it is would probably be enough for my needs, but I'll want wifi |
| 20:40.55 | aloril | (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: Python 2.5 in OpenEmbedded http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/08/15/python-25-in-openembedded/ |
| 20:41.03 | ME-tan | I need wifi more than stereo. Both would be better but i'll take what i can get |
| 20:41.15 | mobodo | you have to give both arms and sell your parents here to get internet on your cellphone |
| 20:41.35 | ME-tan | i've been using internet on my mobile phone for 6 years |
| 20:41.39 | ME-tan | :D |
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| 20:41.57 | Writchi1 | you do know that you bluetooth into a linux box and get a couple of hundred Kps |
| 20:42.01 | ME-tan | started out with hscsd 14.4kbps connection from a journada 540 |
| 20:42.11 | mobodo | it's bluetooth 2? |
| 20:42.33 | Writchi1 | 2.0 and also EDR IIRC |
| 20:42.38 | mobodo | ahh! nice |
| 20:42.51 | Writchi1 | you actually might get closer to a megabit |
| 20:43.04 | mobodo | yeah, that's not bad |
| 20:43.17 | Writchi1 | a class 1 dongle will give you decent range |
| 20:43.24 | mobodo | but not worth 300$ now if waiting 3-4 months gets me wifi |
| 20:43.29 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@217.83.175.214) |
| 20:43.57 | ME-tan | class 1 should be 10 metres - certainly enough range for some asshat to send me midget porn on the train from the other end of the carriage |
| 20:44.06 | jr0m | ill get the next one too. all my mom wants is a dialer/addressbook openphone |
| 20:44.14 | jr0m | she can have my sh1 |
| 20:44.21 | Writchi1 | class 1 is 100 meters |
| 20:44.25 | ME-tan | i deluged him with cat pictures in return |
| 20:44.26 | Writchi1 | class 2 is 10 meters |
| 20:44.31 | mobodo | how's the development organized - can you simulate the device on a linux box? |
| 20:44.32 | Writchi1 | your mileage may vary |
| 20:44.34 | ME-tan | oops |
| 20:44.40 | Writchi1 | the development isn't organized |
| 20:44.45 | mobodo | ahah |
| 20:44.55 | Writchi1 | mobodo: see the wiki under qemu |
| 20:44.56 | jr0m | mobodo. you can use qemu/xoo/xephyr |
| 20:45.06 | mobodo | ok |
| 20:45.29 | jr0m | the openmokomakefile is pretty smooth to setup a build enviornment |
| 20:45.50 | jr0m | the osx openmoko flasher is sweet as weel |
| 20:45.53 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 20:45.54 | mobodo | someone's working on a video player? |
| 20:48.07 | Kensan | mobodo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player |
| 20:48.11 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
| 20:48.20 | Kensan | mobodo: it's worth taking a closer look at the wiki, tons of info. |
| 20:48.43 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@yukon.ncct.uottawa.ca) |
| 20:48.46 | mobodo | yeah, just thought I'd get a quick start here, I'll have a look :) |
| 20:49.47 | Writchi1 | wiki is best place for a quick start |
| 20:50.01 | Writchi1 | this room is mainly for bashing developers |
| 20:50.05 | Writchi1 | ;) |
| 20:50.17 | juri_ | how about shipping personell? can i bash them? :) |
| 20:50.29 | Writchi1 | you got to find them first |
| 20:50.54 | juri_ | not that i have time to dev on my openmoko... i've already got openmosix, xrdp, qemu, and prototype wearable computing gear... |
| 20:51.45 | juri_ | and two jobs.. |
| 20:53.01 | rmitchell | does anyone know approx. how many Neo1973 GTA02 units will be ready to ship in Oct.? |
| 20:53.11 | rmitchell | it seems like their is going to be quite a demand |
| 20:53.16 | rmitchell | there* |
| 20:55.15 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Wishlist_-_Hardware:_Digital_compass]] [[User_talk:PTT]] |
| 21:01.08 | tuukkah | should there be something about resolv.conf here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking |
| 21:04.57 | *** part/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 21:09.08 | *** join/#openmoko shackan (n=frob@host87-88-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:09.16 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=Miranda@62.73.65.2) |
| 21:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@74.92.159.94) |
| 21:13.56 | juri_ | my openmoko has been expidited... to the other side of the bleeding planet. |
| 21:14.19 | shackan | juri_: wow |
| 21:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=richard@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:16.57 | tuukkah | juri_, how did that happen ?-( |
| 21:21.04 | stefan_schmidt | hi all |
| 21:21.59 | juri_ | tuukkah: no-one knows yet. ;P |
| 21:22.29 | CM | ScaredyCat: I turned off my Neo, and when trying to boot the same thing happened again.. No boot menu, just boot and factory reset. :( |
| 21:23.03 | CM | ScaredyCat: Tried to overwrite mtdblock1 again like last time, but that didn't really help. I'll leave it for later... Time to sleep |
| 21:23.12 | woglinde | hi stefan_schmidt |
| 21:23.22 | stefan_schmidt | hi woglinde |
| 21:27.46 | guillaum1 | woglinde, hi |
| 21:29.31 | woglinde | hi guillaum |
| 21:30.03 | tuukkah | grr, "telinit 1" was not a good idea |
| 21:30.57 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@p549745BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:31.18 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@77-56-188-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:33.25 | happycube | oops |
| 21:34.03 | hhf423 | doh, it looks like I have only broken harddisks left... |
| 21:41.11 | *** join/#openmoko kt (n=kayon@124-168-196-117.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:41.37 | hhf423 | where the HECK did it go? |
| 21:42.04 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 21:42.16 | ozarka | hhf423: Don't give up. We're all counting on you. |
| 21:42.23 | hhf423 | :-) |
| 21:47.25 | *** part/#openmoko charkins (n=casey@pdpc/supporter/active/charkins) |
| 21:51.06 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:52.33 | tuukkah | are you people able to resolve host names in 2007.2? |
| 21:53.49 | hhf423 | tuukkah: no, well not after starting up gprs maunally and getting a connection |
| 21:54.04 | hhf423 | anyone plans to go to FrOScon? |
| 21:54.15 | tuukkah | i'm trying on usb networking |
| 21:55.02 | hhf423 | tuukkah: with USB networking I did not even try. did you configure a nameserver? |
| 21:56.54 | *** part/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@ip5457b8f8.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 21:57.47 | mickeyl | hhf423: I will be @ froscon. |
| 21:57.51 | mickeyl | even talking, I'm afraid |
| 21:57.53 | mickeyl | :D |
| 21:58.15 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:58.23 | SpeedEvil | nameserver 1.2.3.4 |
| 21:58.25 | tuukkah | there was no /etc/resolv.conf but i tried to make one with "nameserver 192.168.0.200" but it didn't help |
| 21:58.26 | SpeedEvil | nameserver 4.5.6.7 |
| 21:58.40 | hhf423 | mickeyl: yes, :-) I read that |
| 21:58.42 | SpeedEvil | it won't - unless that box is acting as a nameserver |
| 21:58.47 | tuukkah | it is |
| 21:58.59 | SpeedEvil | and unless you've set that box as your gateway |
| 21:59.03 | mickeyl | need to prepare some OM-2007.2 images |
| 21:59.05 | mickeyl | for the slides |
| 21:59.10 | guillaum1 | woglinde, did you try some complex MIDlets on the neo ? |
| 21:59.12 | SpeedEvil | and you've got it properly setup to forward to the internet |
| 21:59.21 | speerschleuder | mickeyl, have you seen abraxa? |
| 21:59.29 | speerschleuder | <-- is noon |
| 21:59.45 | mickeyl | speerschleuder: not for a while. i think he's in USA now isn't he? |
| 21:59.46 | SpeedEvil | <--- is ten past three. |
| 21:59.50 | hhf423 | mickeyl: you probably don't need any help, but if you do, let me know. I am good with storylines for slides |
| 22:00.40 | mickeyl | hhf423: thanks. i was planning to reuse an older presentation with some current info ;) |
| 22:01.24 | *** join/#openmoko frma (n=frma@c-bfef72d5.025-93-73746f5.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:01.25 | hhf423 | whooo, looks like ubuntu is installing ok on a half broken hdd |
| 22:01.51 | speerschleuder | mickeyl, yes he is. but is not his deadline coming? |
| 22:02.05 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, perhaps it's my firewall... let me check |
| 22:02.19 | speerschleuder | mickeyl, I think on the 20. or something like taht |
| 22:03.35 | hhf423 | mickeyl: if you have some way of showing the kinetic scrolling live, that will "wow" the audience, even if its kind of a cheap trick :-) |
| 22:03.37 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, yeah, that was it, sorry for the trouble |
| 22:03.40 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:03.56 | mickeyl | speerschleuder: i don't know the gsoc dates offhand, but yes, it's not far away |
| 22:04.17 | frma | What is the easiest way to fetch the latest updates of the openmoko-source and rebuild the image without rebuilding everything. |
| 22:04.18 | mickeyl | hhf423: agreed. i'm not sure how to do this without camera though. |
| 22:04.32 | mickeyl | hhf423: perhaps a video would be ok, since VNC or any similar method is too slow |
| 22:04.38 | tuukkah | i also noticed ogg123 started working only after running madplay. perhaps an oss vs. alsa issue |
| 22:04.54 | hhf423 | mickeyl: video is a good idea |
| 22:05.25 | mickeyl | hhf423: i need to check with the organization then. videos always give problems w/ beamer |
| 22:05.32 | mickeyl | s/always/often/ |
| 22:05.41 | hhf423 | mickeyl: there is no GPS stuff that you can demo, no? Because Sean used that as a nice feature a lot in his talks/interviews |
| 22:05.59 | *** join/#openmoko Ycros (n=Ycros@gnaw.yi.org) |
| 22:06.10 | hhf423 | mickeyl: a video embedded in the presentation should be a no brainer |
| 22:06.16 | mickeyl | i'm afraid i would have to use GPS for the first time on a Neo |
| 22:06.23 | mickeyl | i have stayed out of all that closed-source crap for now |
| 22:06.38 | mickeyl | ~lart gllin |
| 22:06.39 | apt | pulls out his louisville slugger and uses gllin's head to break the homerun record |
| 22:06.43 | hhf423 | well, then it has to wait |
| 22:07.26 | hhf423 | mickeyl: make sure that you talk about what is available to developers right now, the ones who have and the ones who have no neo |
| 22:07.30 | speerschleuder | btw: they got the doppler shift now set :-) |
| 22:09.58 | speerschleuder | anyway. time for bed. bye |
| 22:15.09 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 22:15.28 | tuukkah | could it be that the click sound blocks ogg123 from working |
| 22:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AC991.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:16.42 | tuukkah | at least "sleep 30; ogg123" works better |
| 22:17.00 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423_ (n=chatzill@A7116.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 22:18.46 | tuukkah | now i have an excuse to carry the neo around wherever i go :-) |
| 22:18.47 | hhf423_ | t |
| 22:19.55 | hhf423_ | here I go, the bl**dy linux up and running |
| 22:20.07 | anrp | ogg D: |
| 22:20.12 | hhf423_ | 146 updates... |
| 22:21.02 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 22:21.04 | hhf423_ | I need a faster harddisk |
| 22:21.15 | mickeyl | who doesn't ? |
| 22:22.56 | tuukkah | mm, how to use headphones instead of speakers? |
| 22:23.41 | *** join/#openmoko IR6 (n=rmoreira@87-196-114-54.net.novis.pt) |
| 22:26.22 | hhf423_ | honestly, this harddisk is half broken , 20gb and from like 6 years ago. but a new one is ordered. ata133 should do something for the speed |
| 22:26.43 | SpeedEvil | I'm not fussy. |
| 22:26.48 | hhf423_ | these days I think most of the bottleneck is actually the harddisk and maybe RAM |
| 22:27.17 | mickeyl | try alsactl restore -f /etc/headphones.state (or so) |
| 22:28.02 | tuukkah | "Amp Mode" is able to switch off the stereo speakers and use "call speaker" instead, but in amp mode "headphone" i can still hear nothing from the headphones |
| 22:28.11 | hhf423_ | I would sooo like to have a 2007.2 which will bother me for the SIM PIN |
| 22:29.23 | tuukkah | mickeyl, that state file is missing from this image (2007.2 unofficial snapshot from 20070813) |
| 22:29.45 | mickeyl | tuukkah: we include all we have IIRC |
| 22:29.49 | mickeyl | might mean we don't have one now |
| 22:29.57 | mickeyl | i'd be thankful for one |
| 22:30.28 | mickeyl | hhf423: me too. we have some gsmd developer shortage ... *cough* |
| 22:31.59 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-35-195.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:32.17 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 22:32.26 | Writchie | mickeyl: if you had a good spec for a dbus layer to control the phone and handset functions would you incorporate it? |
| 22:33.07 | mickeyl | Writchie: yes, however only if it is an additional package to gsmd. The gsmd author insists on making the core package without a dependency to dbus. |
| 22:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-193-216.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:33.22 | mickeyl | e.g. gsmd-dbus would be most appreciated |
| 22:34.30 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: I think he can life with dbus code inside the the libgsmd tree, but be able to choose if it is enabled or not |
| 22:34.30 | Writchie | i'm thinking in terms of layers dbus -> libgsmd -> gsmd where any layer is in principle replacable |
| 22:34.41 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: yes |
| 22:34.47 | mickeyl | Writchie: yeah |
| 22:35.27 | Writchie | i just don't want to waste my time if its not going to be seriously considered |
| 22:35.40 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: ++ from me on this. dbus is nice, but having the choice is better. And don't forget taht he never has done dbus before. :) |
| 22:35.58 | mickeyl | right |
| 22:36.05 | mickeyl | Writchie: it would be most appreciated, really. |
| 22:36.25 | mickeyl | Writchie: it even is on my agenda, however very far down, so I'd be happy if someone would beat me to it |
| 22:37.03 | Writchie | i have a more elaborate vision for the capabilities of the "phone" daemon |
| 22:37.19 | SpeedEvil | like? |
| 22:37.47 | Writchie | like do what handsets do, including MMS, EMS, WML, etc. - perhaps not all at once |
| 22:38.18 | Writchie | and most particular i18n |
| 22:38.19 | tuukkah | according to wiki the difference between speakers and headset is "LM4857: route to LLS+-/RLS+- " vs. "routed on LM4856 to LHP/RHP" |
| 22:38.54 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: and provide underlying capability to meet the gsm handset MMI spec. |
| 22:40.54 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:44.43 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 22:47.47 | tuukkah | "There's a National Semiconductor LM4857 Stereo Amplifier at the analog audio output of the WM8753" |
| 22:48.13 | mickeyl | RP: is the problem known that if you supply multiple packages on the command line that depend on each other their dependencies are not honored ? |
| 22:48.19 | mickeyl | e.g. foo depends on bar |
| 22:48.21 | mickeyl | bitbake foo bar |
| 22:48.28 | mickeyl | tries to build both at once w/ multiple bitbake threads |
| 22:48.34 | RP | mickeyl: no :/ |
| 22:48.59 | mickeyl | i think this is a bug since long |
| 22:49.06 | RP | ouch |
| 22:49.08 | mickeyl | i forgot to report though |
| 22:49.16 | mickeyl | since it's a rare case probably noone else noticed |
| 22:49.27 | RP | Nobody's told me about it :) |
| 22:49.41 | RP | Well, until now |
| 22:49.55 | RP | I'd file a bug so we don't forget |
| 22:50.14 | mickeyl | k |
| 22:52.30 | *** join/#openmoko shackan (n=frob@host87-88-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:55.35 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Hhf423]] [[Booting_from_NFS]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 22:56.08 | hhf423 | hahaha, the openmoko is probably the only phone you can boot from NFS |
| 23:00.13 | woglinde | hhf423 hm the motorolas should be too |
| 23:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-163-89.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 23:01.56 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@CPE001057000aad-CM001225d73c82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:04.22 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:05.01 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423 (n=chatzill@A7116.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 23:05.11 | hhf423 | re |
| 23:08.03 | RP | mickeyl: I can't reproduce. bitbake dbus dbus-glib does exactly what I'd expect here |
| 23:08.26 | tuukkah | lm4856 datasheet doesn't show any LLS+-/RLS+- or LHP/RHP connectors. instead, it shows two mono inputs, one stereo input, one mono output, and one stereo output |
| 23:08.45 | SpeedEvil | They are probably internal names. |
| 23:08.51 | SpeedEvil | Which would be on teh schematic. |
| 23:09.12 | SpeedEvil | I assume left loudspeaker, left headphone, ... |
| 23:09.30 | SpeedEvil | the mono output is I believe the earpiece speaker. |
| 23:09.33 | mickeyl | RP: how many threads do you have enabled? |
| 23:09.40 | RP | mickeyl: 4 |
| 23:10.25 | RP | mickeyl: The number of threads wouldn't matter though, I had enough idle to allow it to run dbus-glib while it was waiting for dbus-glib-native and it didn't |
| 23:10.40 | mickeyl | hmm bummer |
| 23:10.52 | RP | mickeyl: bitbake -g showed the dependency and it honored it |
| 23:11.11 | RP | mickeyl: Does bitbake -g show the dependency in your python case? |
| 23:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko lekter3 (n=e-topic@62.87.82.57) |
| 23:12.16 | mickeyl | RP: how can i view dot files again? |
| 23:12.45 | RP | mickeyl: I just read them by hand, I can't find a viewer that can cope with the number of links we have |
| 23:12.52 | mickeyl | heh, k |
| 23:13.00 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, lm4857 seems to have LLS+-/RLS+- and LHP/RHP (also EP+- and mono LINEOUT) |
| 23:13.41 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 23:14.11 | mickeyl | "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "gcc-cross.do_populate_staging" |
| 23:14.12 | mickeyl | "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "python.do_populate_staging" |
| 23:14.12 | mickeyl | "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "shasum-native.do_populate_staging" |
| 23:14.12 | mickeyl | "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "python-vorbis.do_unpack" |
| 23:14.13 | mickeyl | "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "python-vorbis.do_patch" |
| 23:14.15 | mickeyl | "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "libvorbis.do_populate_staging" |
| 23:14.17 | mickeyl | "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "glibc.do_populate_staging" |
| 23:14.19 | mickeyl | "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "python-native.do_populate_staging" |
| 23:14.21 | mickeyl | there's no python-ogg staging here |
| 23:15.57 | hhf423 | ok, its bedtime for me now |
| 23:15.59 | RP | mickeyl: ok, that points the finger at taskdata.py or DEPENDS is being overritten |
| 23:16.01 | hhf423 | bye all |
| 23:16.27 | RP | mickeyl: runqueue itself isn't at fault as it isn't getting correct data |
| 23:17.25 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-168-042.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:18.12 | mickeyl | anyways, i'm pretty tired. |
| 23:18.14 | mickeyl | need to sleep |
| 23:18.18 | mickeyl | g'night folks |
| 23:18.39 | RP | 'night mickey|zzZZzz |
| 23:21.18 | RP | mickey|zzZZzz: I see "python-vorbis.do_configure" -> "python-ogg.do_populate_staging" here :-( |
| 23:26.56 | tuukkah | where can i see the schematics of the neo? |
| 23:32.44 | SpeedEvil | You can'ty. |
| 23:32.44 | linux_galore | schematics? |
| 23:32.52 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately. |
| 23:33.25 | IR6 | why is that ? |
| 23:33.29 | IR6 | is it not open ? |
| 23:33.30 | SpeedEvil | Openmoko is open. |
| 23:33.39 | SpeedEvil | The phones that run it are not as open. |
| 23:33.56 | SpeedEvil | The hardware that runs it is not as open. |
| 23:34.10 | IR6 | damn burocrats :D |
| 23:34.45 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: openhardware is starting to be produced and sold I noticed |
| 23:34.59 | SpeedEvil | What do you mean? |
| 23:35.02 | linux_galore | including complete drawings of the modules |
| 23:35.13 | linux_galore | google openhardware |
| 23:35.35 | linux_galore | its a movement similar to FOSS |
| 23:35.41 | SpeedEvil | oh - right. |
| 23:35.50 | tuukkah | =( |
| 23:36.00 | linux_galore | they are now going into production with some modules |
| 23:36.19 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 23:36.28 | tuukkah | i can't know if i'm thinking something wrong or if the alsa driver is doing something wrong or if my phone is improperly assembled |
| 23:36.46 | linux_galore | they are taking the unix tact were you build devices from modules |
| 23:38.01 | linux_galore | they are trying to do for hardware what BSD/Linux did to software |
| 23:38.02 | tuukkah | if "Amp Mode" includes "Headphones" the same sound that comes from the speakers should simply come from the headphones |
| 23:39.17 | SpeedEvil | Not really practical - the fundamental problem is that PCBs are the natural and best packed form. Modules take up lots more volume, if only for connectors. |
| 23:40.00 | SpeedEvil | for small things that is. |
| 23:40.10 | SpeedEvil | if weight, volume doesn't matter, it's not so important. |
| 23:41.14 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=ruimorei@87-196-114-54.net.novis.pt) |
| 23:44.09 | rmitchell | how hard would it be to shrink the depth of the Neo to near-RAZR size? |
| 23:44.53 | linux_galore | rmitchell: moto fab their own chips |
| 23:44.54 | rmitchell | that seems to be the only thing -as far as size- that I see as a downside |
| 23:45.31 | linux_galore | one of the major advantages moto and the other big players have is they can fab their own all in one chips |
| 23:45.46 | rmitchell | so they fab everything to fit in their case, and FIC is building a case around the chips? |
| 23:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 23:45.57 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 23:46.06 | linux_galore | you can out source an all in ones though (our company gets custom asics made) |
| 23:46.24 | SpeedEvil | With the Razr, and stuff, for example, instead of like in the neo, with the modem being a seperate CPU, with seperate RAM and flash, and ... |
| 23:46.24 | rmitchell | asics? |
| 23:46.34 | linux_galore | application specific IC |
| 23:46.40 | rmitchell | ok |
| 23:46.41 | SpeedEvil | There is one CPU, which attaches to a radio chip. |
| 23:47.02 | SpeedEvil | This eliminates maybe a dozen or several parts. |
| 23:47.10 | rmitchell | ok, so it is just streamlining? |
| 23:47.14 | SpeedEvil | pretty much. |
| 23:47.17 | rmitchell | still, 18 mm is pretty slim |
| 23:47.23 | linux_galore | yeah, also moto make all in one cdma gsm multi bandwidth chips |
| 23:47.24 | rmitchell | .68 in |
| 23:47.46 | SpeedEvil | To an extent, increasing the amount spent on the PCB can also reduce size. |
| 23:48.05 | SpeedEvil | But only to a limited degree. |
| 23:48.27 | SpeedEvil | With complex stuff like phones, the boards are pretty much completely packed with chips and stuff. |
| 23:48.37 | rmitchell | so the neo is about as thin as the hardware will allow? |
| 23:48.42 | linux_galore | but if you look at the razr though as an engineer there is allot of compromises in the design |
| 23:48.55 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@adsl-70-142-211-162.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:48.59 | rmitchell | such as? |
| 23:48.59 | SpeedEvil | Is the razr touchscreen? |
| 23:49.02 | SpeedEvil | I forget. |
| 23:49.03 | rmitchell | no |
| 23:49.14 | rmitchell | mine isn't (V3m) |
| 23:49.17 | linux_galore | also razr uses a pretty small battery |
| 23:49.22 | cesarb | but it has two screens ;-) |
| 23:49.26 | rmitchell | battery life sucks |
| 23:49.30 | tuukkah | what about the alsa driver, where would i see the code for that? |
| 23:49.35 | linux_galore | low res screen slow cpu not allot of ram etc |
| 23:49.37 | rmitchell | how thick is the SLVR? |
| 23:49.44 | SpeedEvil | the kernel tuukkah. |
| 23:49.46 | rmitchell | that is prob closer to the neo |
| 23:49.52 | rmitchell | as in, not a flip |
| 23:49.55 | SpeedEvil | look on svn for neo related patches IIRC. |
| 23:50.13 | tuukkah | so somewhere here? http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ |
| 23:50.17 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:51.28 | linux_galore | rmitchell: making things pretty is about compromises, people often note how thin the iPhone is, what they dont mention is how wide it is |
| 23:51.50 | rmitchell | if anyone wants the details, RAZR is 13 mm thick, with the SLVR at 11.5 |
| 23:52.00 | rmitchell | yeah, I think the neo is a good phone |
| 23:52.15 | tuukkah | seems to be this: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/asoc.patch?rev=2063&view=auto |
| 23:52.42 | rmitchell | RAZRs seem a little fragil, the neo looks like it could survive a fall ( I did find some drop tests on the wiki) |
| 23:53.27 | daMaestro | my razrv3xx sucks (i really, really don't like it) |
| 23:53.38 | daMaestro | i got it free with my new att plan, luckly the sim works with the neo |
| 23:53.41 | linux_galore | rmitchell: have you seen the Meizu M8, its smaller thinner than the iPhone and has more features |
| 23:54.19 | linux_galore | rmitchell: it shows how Apple took some shortcuts |
| 23:54.23 | rmitchell | yeah |
| 23:54.26 | rmitchell | but more $$ |
| 23:54.58 | linux_galore | rmitchell: prices Im seeing put it on par with the iPhone |
| 23:55.29 | rmitchell | I saw something that said 799 |
| 23:55.35 | rmitchell | us dollars |
| 23:55.56 | linux_galore | rmitchell: I think thats for a 16GB unit |
| 23:55.58 | rmitchell | though from what I saw, there was a 16G |
| 23:56.00 | rmitchell | yeah |
| 23:56.17 | linux_galore | they have a 4GB unit going for around US$400 |
| 23:56.29 | rmitchell | does the neo have the same kind of display as the iphone? |
| 23:56.41 | mjr | higher resolution |
| 23:56.46 | rmitchell | i know it isn't multitouch |
| 23:56.49 | mjr | no multitouch |
| 23:56.54 | mjr | right |
| 23:56.56 | linux_galore | rmitchell: slighly smaller but better DPI and resolution but no multi |
| 23:56.59 | rmitchell | is multi just software though? |
| 23:57.03 | mjr | no, it's not |
| 23:57.17 | rmitchell | ah, so if multi is added, a new display will be needed |
| 23:57.23 | linux_galore | iPhone ues a display design done by a German company |
| 23:57.29 | linux_galore | uses* |
| 23:57.31 | rmitchell | fancy |
| 23:57.56 | mjr | Yes. (Though you could possibly kludge some limited multitouchish capabilities by extrapolation, but don't expect that.) |
| 23:58.12 | linux_galore | only down side though is the DPI rating on the iPhone is pretty average |
| 23:58.15 | rmitchell | how useful is multitouch |
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| 23:58.34 | rmitchell | from what I have seen on the iphone, they just use it to zoom and stuff |
| 23:58.44 | ckuethe | it's as useful as you make it |
| 23:58.51 | mjr | anyway, iphone is 320x480, Neo is full VGA, which is still beautiful to look at |
| 23:58.57 | ckuethe | it's useless if there is no code to support it |
| 23:58.58 | linux_galore | rmitchell: you need zoom for a reason, the DPI is too low for good text reading |
| 23:59.12 | rmitchell | ah, but it seems a little of a waste for multi |
| 23:59.29 | ckuethe | and it's extremely useful if you can think of an efficient way to express yourself with multitouch |
| 23:59.42 | linux_galore | rmitchell: put it this way, you dont need zoom multi touch if the display is very clear |