| 00:00.10 | SpeedEvil | It would get you the current state of the partition, which you could replace the bit with using dd I suppose. |
| 00:02.45 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: dfu-util doesn't seem to have any checking, so the checking, if any, would be on uboot |
| 00:03.24 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 00:03.32 | ScaredyCat | Port /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 00:03.33 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:03.33 | ScaredyCat | e |
| 00:03.33 | ScaredyCat | GTA01Bv4 # |
| 00:03.48 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: you managed to get the serial? |
| 00:03.49 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:04.07 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil's mtd block worked... |
| 00:04.25 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:04.30 | ScaredyCat | sadly not SpeedEvil... but I do have some breasts :) |
| 00:04.48 | SpeedEvil | You should also have a 'power-off and autofast' option in u-boot now. |
| 00:04.59 | SpeedEvil | handy for turning on charging given a dumb charger. |
| 00:05.01 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 00:05.43 | ScaredyCat | I still don't have a splash screen, but I might be able to live with that... |
| 00:05.46 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: since the partitioning scheme (the mtdparts line) on his environment seems to be the same as it was in yours (if I didn't miss any extra zeroes), it should all work correctly now |
| 00:05.56 | ScaredyCat | unless you want to dump that too SpeedEvil :) |
| 00:06.03 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: as to the splash screen, just reflash the splash partition ;-) |
| 00:06.15 | ScaredyCat | with what though... |
| 00:06.21 | ScaredyCat | last time I broke it :( |
| 00:06.31 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: with the one from qemu |
| 00:06.38 | *** part/#openmoko Markinok1 (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 00:06.48 | ScaredyCat | I don;t have it .. |
| 00:06.59 | cesarb | build/qemu/openmoko/splash.gz on a mokomakefile tree |
| 00:07.18 | ScaredyCat | I don't build the qemu stuff... |
| 00:07.24 | ScaredyCat | becuase I have gcc4 |
| 00:07.31 | ScaredyCat | and it barfs at that |
| 00:08.04 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: if you aren't using gentoo, you can just install gcc3 together with gcc4, and qemu's build will automatically use it |
| 00:08.40 | ScaredyCat | it's nnot in the suse repositories :( |
| 00:08.53 | cesarb | Well, let's see if DCC send works with this crazy double-NAT setup of mine... |
| 00:09.09 | ScaredyCat | you'll be lucky |
| 00:09.37 | cesarb | looks like it doesn't (receive works, so by simmetry sending wouldn't) |
| 00:09.53 | ScaredyCat | I've never known dcc to work - ever.. |
| 00:09.54 | SpeedEvil | But decides that working out the u-boot format is too complex. |
| 00:09.59 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 00:10.21 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil: I wouldn't mind... if you had worked it out :) |
| 00:10.25 | SpeedEvil | same url, mtdblock3 |
| 00:10.30 | ScaredyCat | ta |
| 00:10.36 | SpeedEvil | same site, rather |
| 00:12.09 | cesarb | Well, 'make setup-qemu' followed by 'cd build/qemu/openmoko && make splash.gz' should be enough to create it, and doesn't need gcc at all |
| 00:13.03 | SpeedEvil | It looks just like a 16 bit wide 640*480 raw map. |
| 00:13.10 | SpeedEvil | but I couldn't be bothered. |
| 00:13.13 | SpeedEvil | gzipped |
| 00:13.19 | SpeedEvil | which I don't understand why |
| 00:14.31 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: because without gzip it would waste space for something which is just cosmetic |
| 00:14.32 | SpeedEvil | What do the two lines under the antenna in GSM status show? |
| 00:14.36 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: since it has to be raw |
| 00:14.47 | SpeedEvil | But it's on a fixed-size partition... |
| 00:15.08 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: the partition probably wasn't sized for the full image size |
| 00:15.15 | SpeedEvil | Twas. |
| 00:16.28 | SpeedEvil | 640K. Which is actually larger than 640*480*2 |
| 00:18.37 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: well, on the qemu setup it's 256k |
| 00:18.54 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.07 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: which is smaller... |
| 00:19.29 | *** join/#openmoko mwester-laptop (n=mwester@gw.mwester.net) |
| 00:20.02 | ScaredyCat | w00t |
| 00:20.13 | ScaredyCat | i has a splash |
| 00:20.24 | ScaredyCat | sorry it took so long, technical hitch |
| 00:21.06 | ScaredyCat | ut hey... now we know hte easy way to change a splash ;) |
| 00:21.13 | ScaredyCat | .. well and the hard way |
| 00:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 00:22.27 | ScaredyCat | so much relief... just to be at the same point I was 15 hours ago :/ |
| 00:22.56 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: what was you trying to do 15 hours ago? |
| 00:22.59 | mwester-laptop | hehe! But think of all you learned~ |
| 00:23.02 | cesarb | s/was/were/ |
| 00:23.30 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: (btw, a writeup on the wiki or ml on "how i fixed my neo" would be cool ;-) ) |
| 00:23.44 | ScaredyCat | I was only trying to change the splash... which I did... I changed it from a picture... to not a picture |
| 00:23.46 | SpeedEvil | Just be grateful you borked another partition than u-boot :) |
| 00:23.54 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: (so other people with similar problems will know what to do and what to not to do) |
| 00:24.23 | ScaredyCat | cesarb: how about - don't do it. :) |
| 00:24.28 | ScaredyCat | yes SpeedEvil.. |
| 00:24.29 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: well, first try on mokomakefile doing a "make setup-qemu && cd build/qemu/openmoko && make splash.gz" |
| 00:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-186-182.42-151.net24.it) |
| 00:24.49 | ScaredyCat | cesarb: but I hav ehte splash's |
| 00:24.56 | ScaredyCat | I used werner's stuff... |
| 00:25.12 | ScaredyCat | openmoko/developers/werner/splash |
| 00:25.19 | ScaredyCat | I just balled up |
| 00:25.30 | ScaredyCat | s/balled/ballsed it/ |
| 00:26.10 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: if it works and you have a splash.gz (which is what you flash on the neo), you can edit the makefile on build/qemu/openmoko to use another .png as the image, and get a splash.gz which you can flash |
| 00:26.20 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: I see, he has a quite different scheme |
| 00:26.42 | ScaredyCat | yes... |
| 00:26.47 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: and you missed a '3' somewhere when tyoping it ;-) |
| 00:27.13 | ScaredyCat | yes.. 0x2000000 instead of 0x32000000 |
| 00:27.41 | ScaredyCat | still... at least it was a cock up that didn't explode completely |
| 00:27.59 | SpeedEvil | I copy+paste - rather than typing, for this sort of stuff. |
| 00:28.02 | SpeedEvil | Then check it. |
| 00:28.19 | ScaredyCat | that's what I thought I'd done... |
| 00:28.45 | ScaredyCat | it wasn't until cesarb and I looked at the mtd that I saw it :/ |
| 00:29.22 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 00:29.30 | SpeedEvil | 17K - is what the splash actually is. |
| 00:29.38 | SpeedEvil | A whole 620K wasted. |
| 00:30.06 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: not on the qemu setup ;-) |
| 00:30.07 | ScaredyCat | I thought it'd be fun to do something like these for the boot: http://flickr.com/photos/stillframe/tags/itrapped/show/ |
| 00:30.21 | mdt | does someone know what's going on on ccc07? some outcome from the programing-marathon? |
| 00:30.30 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: which wastes only 239k |
| 00:31.01 | sagacis | heh |
| 00:31.01 | ScaredyCat | there are 2 splashes too |
| 00:32.33 | sagacis | I plugged my neo into a dumb AC adapter to 500ma 5.5v usb-mini-b. The neo never showed the charging icon and went dead. What's up with that? |
| 00:33.04 | *** join/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=exxon@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 00:34.52 | ExxonValdeez | !seen galaxende |
| 00:34.52 | cdbot2 | ExxonValdeez, I don't remember seeing galaxende. |
| 00:37.10 | ScaredyCat | ok... anrp, cesarb, SpeedEvil thank's for the help... I'll write it all up tomorrow and stick it on the wiki - for now, much needed sleep... |
| 00:37.47 | ExxonValdeez | is it fairly easy to get the openmoko software running in qemu |
| 00:37.48 | ExxonValdeez | ? |
| 00:37.48 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 00:38.06 | sagacis | SpeedEvil: You've been at it all day! |
| 00:38.17 | sagacis | ExxonValdeez: mokomakefile |
| 00:38.45 | ExxonValdeez | have you done it before though?, ah well, i might as well just go hack around with it |
| 00:41.30 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 00:45.30 | SpeedEvil | I was asking yesterday if there was a jpeg viewer on it. |
| 00:45.33 | SpeedEvil | There is. |
| 00:45.39 | SpeedEvil | mtpaint -v foo.jpg |
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| 01:05.05 | sagacis | mucked up my neo's fs. Ready to install a new one, mucked up my builds. :( |
| 01:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelingGeek (n=atg@pool-71-161-38-140.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:10.28 | sagacis | Why does the uImage on http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/ never change? |
| 01:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-202-92.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 01:17.14 | *** part/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=exxon@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 01:23.08 | togs | New Neo. Tried the 2007.2 images. Looked nice but could not turn the machine off (had to use battery). Reflash and get a grey screen (see http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/Emerging_OpenMoko.html). Reboot doesn't help? |
| 01:24.40 | sagacis | Wierd. |
| 01:25.12 | anrp | `/me possibly spies a u-boot bug |
| 01:25.17 | anrp | er >_> yeah. anywaya |
| 01:25.28 | sagacis | togs, if you don't want to risk updating your u-boot, you can cu to the usb uboot console and "nand erase rootfs" and "nand erase kernel" |
| 01:25.42 | sagacis | before flashing |
| 01:25.52 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:25.57 | sagacis | It could be that you just have an incomplete erase. |
| 01:26.17 | sagacis | I saw some really strange things, like lib.so files turned into directories on my rootfs |
| 01:26.20 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelil (n=atg@pool-70-104-231-189.fred.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:26.41 | sagacis | The updated uboot has the fix, but I haven't felt up to flashing that without a debug board. |
| 01:26.55 | sagacis | With my luck, we'd have a brownout right at that moment and I'd brick the device. |
| 01:28.04 | togs | Okay, I did get a sense that erase might help. I've no debug board so I've been similarly cautious. I'll try the nand erase. Is this relatively safe? |
| 01:28.20 | anrp | yep |
| 01:28.21 | anrp | bug! |
| 01:28.37 | anrp | bInterfaceNumber in uboot-dfu.patch is 0x00 for all 5 interfaces |
| 01:28.46 | anrp | win32 libusb is trying to walk the list, and fails |
| 01:28.49 | anrp | since they're all zero |
| 01:29.22 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.64) |
| 01:30.08 | sagacis | anrp, in those cases, I usually start with "blame". |
| 01:30.25 | sagacis | At least then, I know whose name to curse....;-) |
| 01:30.48 | sagacis | togs, sure. Just did it myself. |
| 01:30.51 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-074-236-102-092.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:30.54 | anrp | that would be laforge |
| 01:30.59 | sagacis | don't mistype and spell uboot, tho. |
| 01:30.59 | anrp | D: more stress |
| 01:31.05 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DAF95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:31.13 | orzo | I get an error when i try to use gdb to connect remotely |
| 01:31.28 | orzo | i run "gdb server foo:1234 hello" on the neo |
| 01:32.05 | orzo | and "gdb hello" on the computer and tell it "target remote neo:1234" where neo is the ip address of the phone |
| 01:32.13 | orzo | at that point it seem to be working |
| 01:32.44 | orzo | but then i issue any debugging command and i get "Warning: Cannot insert break point -3. Error accessing memory address 0xd400: Input/output error." |
| 01:34.34 | orzo | anybody ever use gdbserver? |
| 01:34.58 | Linux_Galore | heh http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=51b_1186864980 |
| 01:37.04 | sagacis | Hey, I got noise! |
| 01:37.17 | sagacis | orzo: sorry, never used gdbserver |
| 01:37.37 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 01:37.37 | sagacis | I loaded the latest from nslu2 and got a boot sound. |
| 01:37.39 | anrp | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=701 |
| 01:37.43 | anrp | i do got me a bug D: |
| 01:38.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 701 has been created by anrp(AT)mit.edu |
| 01:38.02 | cdbot2 | * * bInterfaceNumber setting incorrect |
| 01:38.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=701 |
| 01:38.36 | anrp | wot, my email |
| 01:38.36 | anrp | !! |
| 01:38.40 | anrp | oh well |
| 01:38.56 | togs | On my host when I try cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 I get Permission denied and then Line in use. Tried also as root. Any ideas (need to nand erase). |
| 01:39.40 | anrp | also as root? |
| 01:39.43 | anrp | that can't be right |
| 01:39.53 | anrp | plug it in, dmesg | tail -n 10 (post to pastebin.ca ?) |
| 01:40.01 | sagacis | togs, you should be able to get in as root.... unless somebody else is using the port |
| 01:41.15 | sagacis | Forgot, no gsmd in 2007.2 Tried to power up the modem and crashed my panel. |
| 01:44.20 | togs | sagacis, No one else on the host. |
| 01:45.38 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelil (n=atg@pool-71-161-34-192.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:46.35 | cesarb | anrp: your email? |
| 01:46.43 | cesarb | anrp: did the orders pipeline start flowing again? |
| 01:48.15 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelingGeek (n=atg@pool-162-83-105-233.culp.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:49.57 | togs | anrp, thanks. see http://pastebin.ca/654065 |
| 01:50.55 | anrp | huh |
| 01:51.01 | anrp | nah i was talking about the bugbot |
| 01:51.20 | anrp | mm what distro? |
| 01:51.32 | anrp | lsof | grep ACM0 give anything, fuser /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 01:51.33 | anrp | ? |
| 01:53.52 | togs | Nothing from "lsof | grep ACM0" or "fuser /dev/ttyACM0" |
| 01:54.43 | anrp | cu has lost its mind then |
| 01:55.09 | sagacis | maybe a bad module? |
| 01:55.22 | sagacis | I like 2007.2, but the terminal font is TOO BIG! |
| 01:55.39 | anrp | too big? that's hard on a tiny screen |
| 01:56.37 | sagacis | have you seen it? The 9-point characters are giant |
| 01:56.45 | anrp | try cat /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 01:56.56 | anrp | then in another terminal, printf '\n' > /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 01:57.03 | anrp | sagacis: i think they fixed the dpi setting |
| 01:57.27 | sagacis | Yup. But, 9-point font shouldn't be 3/8 inch. |
| 01:57.58 | sagacis | "root@fic-gta01:/" takes up across the entire screen. |
| 01:58.10 | SpeedEvil | The right solution is a font picker... |
| 01:58.15 | anrp | hm, actually, if they did the reverse |
| 01:58.37 | anrp | the terminal program thinks its on a 72dpi screen |
| 01:58.53 | anrp | er, no, it thinks its on a 220dpi screen |
| 01:59.00 | cesarb | sagacis: people have different eyesight, you know |
| 01:59.02 | *** join/#openmoko superman_scott (n=scott@cpe-024-211-154-226.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:59.07 | anrp | so makes it many pixels |
| 01:59.15 | anrp | then, if there's a second scaling factor somewhere... |
| 01:59.15 | cesarb | sagacis: some people might need much bigger fonts |
| 01:59.23 | sagacis | Hmmm... |
| 01:59.31 | anrp | just saying, since 9pt@72dpi is 1/8" |
| 01:59.33 | sagacis | Y'know, it's actually 9-point height |
| 01:59.39 | anrp | 220/72*1/8 is 0.382 |
| 01:59.40 | cesarb | (and then, some people like me tend to use the smallest available font) |
| 01:59.41 | anrp | about what you see |
| 01:59.48 | sagacis | So, it's correct, but I"m used to the tiny print |
| 01:59.55 | sagacis | So, I'll have to see how small it can get.. |
| 02:00.02 | anrp | D: |
| 02:00.02 | sagacis | Maybe 6-point will be acceptable. |
| 02:00.06 | sagacis | This screen is so sharp! |
| 02:00.09 | cesarb | sagacis: check xdpyinfo just to be sure if the screen dimensions (in mm) are correct |
| 02:00.13 | anrp | if you want it the same actual size, 9*72/220 |
| 02:00.22 | anrp | so, 3 pt |
| 02:01.44 | SpeedEvil | I was using about 80*25, landscape, and it wasn't fullscreen. |
| 02:02.01 | anrp | its those damn panels, i say |
| 02:02.22 | sagacis | 3-point is too small. I'm trying 5 |
| 02:02.22 | SpeedEvil | So, call it 120*32 or so, which works out to some 5*15 |
| 02:02.28 | SpeedEvil | prolly 6*15 |
| 02:02.28 | sagacis | s/5/6/ |
| 02:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 02:03.05 | *** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 02:04.25 | sagacis | maybe 3, or maybe the setting doesn't work |
| 02:04.47 | togs | cat /dev/ttyACM0 got http://pastebin.ca/654072 |
| 02:05.30 | sagacis | togs, it looks like you are connected... |
| 02:05.52 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-074-236-102-092.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:06.12 | orzo | i guess i have to recompile gdb with --target different than --host in order to use gdbserver |
| 02:06.13 | sagacis | nope. /etc/X11/Xdefaults settings didn't change mrxvt's font |
| 02:07.17 | cesarb | hm, the old image I have (on qemu) says it's 16cmx21cm... The neo isn't actually that big, is it? |
| 02:07.32 | cesarb | The DPI settings on the X server are probably completely out of whack |
| 02:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelil (n=atg@pool-71-254-18-243.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:07.51 | cesarb | sagacis: try changinng the DPI instead of the font, it should work better |
| 02:08.00 | cesarb | s/changinng/changing/ |
| 02:09.22 | sagacis | The dpi is set to 285, which I think is correct. |
| 02:09.32 | sagacis | Xsession has a section for GTA01 and GTA02 |
| 02:09.58 | sagacis | 43x57mm |
| 02:10.43 | orzo | i suppose there should be some way to add gdb to the list of cross tools that are built |
| 02:11.28 | SpeedEvil | gdb and gdbserver are on my phone |
| 02:11.47 | orzo | yeah they are there |
| 02:11.53 | sagacis | http://pastebin.ca/654075 |
| 02:12.05 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^ (n=user@r190-64-6-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 02:12.07 | orzo | but to use gdbserver on your phone, you'd want a cross-tool gdb on your computer |
| 02:12.12 | sagacis | Cool! |
| 02:12.17 | SpeedEvil | Umm - why? |
| 02:12.19 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 02:12.24 | SpeedEvil | It'd need to know arms. |
| 02:13.45 | togs | Tried cat /dev/ttyACM0 several times (restarting Neo). Mostly the same, but occasionally get a whole bunch of stuff... http://pastebin.ca/654076 |
| 02:15.26 | anrp | that's a loopback |
| 02:15.35 | anrp | i sometimes see it on linux |
| 02:15.47 | anrp | sometimes the kernel configures it such that its a loopback |
| 02:15.55 | anrp | anyway, what did you want to do? |
| 02:18.21 | sagacis | OK, no joy on setting the mrxvt font. Giving up and trying to lie about dpi now |
| 02:18.31 | togs | Am trying to "nand erase kernel" and root because of problem as in the screen dump at http://openmoko.togaware.com/survivor/Emerging_OpenMoko.html |
| 02:19.23 | anrp | ah, ok |
| 02:19.37 | anrp | get it in a state where you only get one prompt line from the cat |
| 02:19.46 | anrp | (one "GTA01B4 #") |
| 02:20.00 | anrp | then printf "nand erase kernel\n" > /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 02:20.09 | anrp | then printf "nand erase rootfs\n" > /dev/ttyACM0 after first finishes |
| 02:20.19 | anrp | er, might need to be ' instead of " for printf |
| 02:20.28 | anrp | you could also use minicom or another terminal program |
| 02:21.39 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 02:21.58 | anrp | also, you can trick dfu-util into doing what you want, although i'm not sure what'll happen if it runs off the end of the partition |
| 02:22.07 | anrp | by using an input file of /dev/zero |
| 02:24.41 | DukeOfURL | what about the GSM antnna icon? I made a call today, but the icon still showed "?". |
| 02:24.46 | DukeOfURL | antenna |
| 02:24.59 | cesarb | anrp: erase isn't zero |
| 02:25.03 | cesarb | anrp: erase is one |
| 02:25.09 | DukeOfURL | I used libgsmd-tool to make the call. |
| 02:25.12 | cesarb | anrp: but there isn't a /dev/one |
| 02:25.14 | anrp | both are invalid jffs2 data though |
| 02:25.36 | anrp | well.... they better be |
| 02:25.39 | cesarb | anrp: true, but "erasing" with zeroes means you are erasing _twice_. Which is ridiculously wasteful. |
| 02:25.53 | anrp | .. alright then |
| 02:26.26 | cesarb | anrp: (I'm not sure, since jffs2 probably only looks for ones as the "erased" pattern... since it's made for flash after all) |
| 02:26.58 | cesarb | DukeOfURL: you are really thinking of trusting the interface at this point of time? |
| 02:27.23 | sagacis | OK, I've been looking in the wrong place. |
| 02:27.34 | cesarb | DukeOfURL: just expect it to get confused by everything (or at least blissfully ignore what's happening) |
| 02:27.39 | sagacis | At some point, I said, "duh. Check for a /etc/mrxvt/" |
| 02:28.02 | DukeOfURL | no, I'm just asking. Yesterday I saw the antenna without the "?" and with the two horizontal lines, but I haven't seen that since. |
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| 02:28.35 | sagacis | DukeOfURL: I saw that all day today while I was gprs'ing around town |
| 02:28.45 | togs | anrp, sagacis, thanks for your help. Must be a brain dead cu. minicom is working just fine. |
| 02:28.48 | DukeOfURL | I didn't have any audio on the call as well |
| 02:29.56 | anrp | http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/neo/128mb_ff.gz |
| 02:29.59 | anrp | if you need it D: |
| 02:30.08 | anrp | 1024:1 compression ratio! |
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| 02:32.39 | sagacis | grr. Nope. Can't change the mrxvt font. Going to have to live with big letters. |
| 02:34.40 | sagacis | anrp, can't beat that compression! |
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| 02:35.58 | sagacis | g'nite. I'm outta here. |
| 02:37.10 | anrp | bai D: |
| 02:37.32 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 02:37.41 | SpeedEvil | My X has stopped rotating. |
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| 02:42.04 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: you have a Neo? I just got mine. |
| 02:44.54 | SpeedEvil | I do. |
| 02:46.05 | orzo | i just successfully built a myhelloworld pkg file and installed it and removed it from /home/root/testroot on the neo |
| 02:46.42 | orzo | cool. |
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| 02:49.43 | DukeOfURL | sftp to the Neo doesn't seem to work. No sftp-server. |
| 02:51.02 | SpeedEvil | scp works just fine |
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| 02:53.17 | raster | scp is good enough |
| 02:53.24 | raster | scp + ssh together are all u need |
| 02:53.31 | DukeOfURL | ok |
| 02:53.41 | cesarb | fish is nice too ;-) |
| 02:53.47 | cesarb | (fish:// on KDE) |
| 02:55.32 | SpeedEvil | Can you tune a fish:/// |
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| 03:16.42 | DukeOfURL | is there a way to force the Neo into sleep mode? |
| 03:17.04 | ljp | apm -s |
| 03:17.50 | DukeOfURL | thanks |
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| 03:41.31 | BryceLeo | hey all |
| 03:41.55 | orzo | when building autotools packages is it important that the autotools in the openembeded staging area be run and not the ones installed locally? |
| 03:43.15 | BryceLeo | orzo: i'm not much of an autotools kinda guy |
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| 03:58.21 | minthome | anyone tried the ubuntu openmoko VMware image? |
| 03:58.34 | minthome | what do i do to start the emu? |
| 04:01.26 | *** part/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 04:02.51 | BHSPitMonkey | minthome, haven't seen that, where is it? |
| 04:04.33 | minthome | on the mailing list |
| 04:05.06 | minthome | http://easterniowashpe.org/openmoko/ |
| 04:05.26 | minthome | or you could be nice and BT it http://tracker.unsads.com/torrents-details.php?id=3 |
| 04:05.36 | minthome | u/p: openmoko |
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| 04:06.15 | minthome | using qemu, but i can't figure out how to start it |
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| 04:10.57 | xamindar | it tells you how to start it when it finished compiling |
| 04:12.34 | minthome | yep, on it... sorry for my ignorance |
| 04:12.36 | minthome | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
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| 04:16.25 | xamindar | you are doing it in linux, right? |
| 04:17.06 | minthome | xamindar, yeah |
| 04:17.40 | minthome | no actual gui emulation though?. all i get and qemu prompts |
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| 04:18.22 | minthome | after running flash.sh |
| 04:19.29 | minthome | prompt GTA01Bv4 |
| 04:22.00 | minthome | got it |
| 04:31.29 | orzo | Does MokoMakefile not install everything that the official downloaded image does? |
| 04:31.41 | orzo | i'm looking in my staging area and don't see libvorbis headers for some reason |
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| 04:35.28 | orzo | how does MokoMakefile decide which packages to build? |
| 04:35.47 | orzo | are the packages listed somewhere? |
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| 06:13.15 | rtyler | evening gentlemen :) |
| 06:13.27 | orzo | i build an mpd pkg |
| 06:13.34 | orzo | and its running on my phone heh |
| 06:13.38 | rtyler | mpd? |
| 06:13.43 | orzo | music player daemon |
| 06:13.48 | rtyler | ah |
| 06:13.58 | orzo | controlable by remote |
| 06:14.12 | orzo | i dont have a client on the phone |
| 06:14.18 | orzo | so i have to control it from the computer heh |
| 06:14.58 | rtyler | shouldn't it be the other way around? :) |
| 06:15.03 | orzo | ya |
| 06:15.05 | orzo | probably |
| 06:16.10 | orzo | well i was thinking i'd build a client |
| 06:16.25 | orzo | maybe cook up a new one |
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| 06:29.45 | rtyler | ugh, was there a netsplit or did my host just choke? |
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| 06:36.46 | rtyler_ | ugh |
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| 07:21.15 | rtyler | anybody able to successfully sync up with the monotone repo? |
| 07:24.33 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 07:41.37 | rtyler | doc|home: you built OpenMoko from scratch? |
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| 07:42.11 | doc|home | rtyler: nope, I'm merely a prospective owner |
| 07:42.27 | doc|home | haven't had time yet to play with an emulator |
| 07:42.33 | rtyler | damnit |
| 07:42.56 | rtyler | this fucking OpenEmbedded monotone distribution won't migrate properly on my ubuntu box |
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| 08:15.21 | hhf423 | re |
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| 08:16.40 | rtyler | ahoy |
| 08:18.13 | hhf423 | hi rtyler |
| 08:19.14 | rtyler | cygwin? |
| 08:20.35 | hhf423 | you think so? |
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| 08:21.01 | xzcvczx | hhf423: i saw something about a port in progress |
| 08:21.06 | rtyler | have you tried? :) |
| 08:21.22 | xzcvczx | rtyler: is the hardware access low level enuf? |
| 08:21.37 | hhf423 | no, I did not even come accross it yet |
| 08:21.38 | rtyler | bahhh ;) |
| 08:22.58 | hhf423 | is the flashing happening via serial over USB? |
| 08:23.35 | rtyler | I just want the frakking OE chain to build on my system, monotone versions seem to be incompatible |
| 08:23.54 | rxr | yeah - the OE crap ... |
| 08:24.22 | rtyler | rxr: do you know what version of monotone they're using? I'd sure love to be able to build stuff for my phone now :/ |
| 08:24.27 | hhf423 | ah, bah, I'll just do it via knoppix and be done with it. |
| 08:25.10 | rxr | rtyler: no, I never got into the OE stuff |
| 08:25.22 | rxr | in fact I just work on getting a Neo 1973 target into the T2 SDE |
| 08:25.38 | rxr | because I find both, OE nor the Moko Gtk+ custom widget crap that appealing ... |
| 08:25.54 | rxr | http://www.t2-project.org/targets/neo1973/ |
| 08:26.11 | pH5 | rtyler: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/RequiredSoftware says recommended is at least 0.32. I'm using 0.35 with no problems since a while. |
| 08:26.47 | xzcvczx | i am building with 29 no problems so far.... still building though |
| 08:26.50 | rtyler | hrm, ubuntu gave me 0.31 from packages, damnit |
| 08:29.23 | xzcvczx | rxr: so is T2 actually got a "product" out yet? |
| 08:30.06 | xzcvczx | well more to the point can it boot on a neo |
| 08:30.31 | rxr | xzcvczx: T2 is older than OE |
| 08:30.42 | rxr | xzcvczx: there are more products and companies using T2 than OE |
| 08:30.59 | rxr | including Puppy Linux since 2.10 and a swiss document archiving appliance |
| 08:31.35 | rxr | xzcvczx: or do you mean for the Neo? |
| 08:32.03 | xzcvczx | rxr: for the neo |
| 08:32.06 | rxr | xzcvczx: and T2 is not a company or so, it has no "products" it is an open source, GPL, community project |
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| 08:32.22 | xzcvczx | rxr: yeah hence the "" |
| 08:32.27 | rxr | xzcvczx: with even normal live and install CDs for x86, x86-64, PowerPC, SPARC etc. availabble :-) |
| 08:33.01 | rxr | xzcvczx: we schedule to have a E17 based T2 target available that can be used to actaully make phonecalls by the end of this month |
| 08:33.24 | *** join/#openmoko yoyo (n=yoyo@nat.zegrze.maverick.com.pl) |
| 08:33.30 | yoyo | hi all |
| 08:33.49 | xzcvczx | rxr: ah ok is there any screenshots of what you have currently? |
| 08:35.02 | rxr | nope, as I said the phone just arrived this week, and we did not started with the Qemu emualator before because up to that point I considered the phone vapoware and did not wanted to started a target for a dead horse :-) |
| 08:35.26 | rxr | xzcvczx: I'll post screenshots and make an announement when the T2/Neo1973 target is in end-user shape :-) |
| 08:37.42 | pH5 | ext3 on microsd? that's gotta be slow.. |
| 08:37.48 | xkr47 | is it ? |
| 08:37.52 | xkr47 | what would be suggested then ? |
| 08:38.02 | xkr47 | fat ?---) |
| 08:38.16 | pH5 | anything that's not journaled for starters, I just use ext2. |
| 08:38.26 | xkr47 | thx |
| 08:38.44 | xkr47 | heh no tune2fs binary.. reformat :) |
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| 08:41.18 | xkr47 | 60kB/s goes onto the ext2 sd now over scp |
| 08:41.33 | xkr47 | mmcqd eats 75% cpu, dropbear 15%, scp 4% |
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| 08:46.30 | anonymous00 | Hello everyone! Can any1 help me? Where can i get Win32 pre-built binaries of openmoko? http://mdk.linux.org.tw/~jserv/openmoko/openmoko-emulator-win32-bin-20070625.zip not responding (( |
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| 08:51.57 | xkr47 | strange, now it started transferring files at 330kB/s |
| 08:52.11 | xkr47 | mmcqd no longer eats any cpu, and dropbear is up to 60% |
| 08:52.24 | xkr47 | the thingie now idles 30% |
| 08:53.31 | xkr47 | the file isn't growing anymore :O |
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| 08:54.29 | xkr47 | ok errors in the dmesg |
| 08:54.37 | rtyler | pH5: using 0.36, looks like things are working better |
| 08:56.36 | xkr47 | pasted here: http://pastebin.ca/654306 |
| 08:57.13 | xkr47 | is this normal? any suggestions on how to proceed ? |
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| 08:59.21 | ljp | rxr: neo is arm920t not arm720t :) |
| 08:59.24 | xzcvczx | hmmm i really have to get a nicer build machine |
| 08:59.36 | rtyler | xzcvczx: for what specifically? |
| 08:59.51 | xzcvczx | rtyler: so it doesnt take so damn long to compile a devel-image |
| 09:00.11 | rxr | ljp: it is ? than some openmoko.org page must be incorrect :-) as I got that information from there ... |
| 09:00.16 | rtyler | unfortunately I don't have my colo box up yet, or a port open to the corporate firewall for my dev workstation |
| 09:00.24 | rtyler | but dualcore opterons are so nice ;) |
| 09:00.29 | rxr | root@fic-gta01:/media/card/bin$ cat /proc/cpuinfo |
| 09:00.29 | rxr | Processor: ARM920T rev 0 (v4l) |
| 09:00.32 | rxr | yes, indeed |
| 09:00.56 | rtyler | model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+ |
| 09:01.23 | rtyler | rxr: the GTA02 is going to be 400Mhz ARM right? |
| 09:01.39 | rxr | rtyler: no idea, I'm not a FIC person ... |
| 09:02.11 | rtyler | xzcvczx: I wish I could help you out really, we have plenty of hefty machines around here for servin' web pages ;) |
| 09:02.25 | rtyler | (see: quad dual core Opterons) |
| 09:02.40 | xzcvczx | xkr47: there are some reports somehwere on the wiki i thought of how you do get io errors doing too much io to the flash card |
| 09:03.31 | xzcvczx | rtyler: i am tempted to jsut go up to the compsci labs at my local uni boot all the ones that arent being used at the time into linux and just get some distcc or something happening |
| 09:03.34 | xkr47 | :P |
| 09:03.41 | xkr47 | thx xzcvczx |
| 09:03.42 | rtyler | xzcvczx: why not :D |
| 09:03.51 | Dmitry_Platonov | rtyler, quad xeons are even nicer |
| 09:04.01 | rtyler | Dmitry_Platonov: except for that whole "Xeon" bit :D |
| 09:04.14 | rtyler | with the exception of the Core 2 Duos, not a big intel fan |
| 09:04.20 | rtyler | although XScale is impressive |
| 09:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.ethome-ip.ethome.com.tw) |
| 09:04.39 | xzcvczx | rtyler: well the stupid thing is is that i am using a 1.3ghz for my build machine and i have a 1.7 duo which i cant get to work iwth distcc as its mac dammiy |
| 09:04.41 | xzcvczx | dammit |
| 09:04.51 | rtyler | xzcvczx: you can still use that IIRC |
| 09:04.58 | rtyler | just make sure your gcc versions match up |
| 09:05.03 | xzcvczx | rtyler: yeah its damn hard to work out how to do it thouhg] |
| 09:05.12 | rtyler | xzcvczx: true |
| 09:05.32 | rtyler | YAY! MokoMakefile processing... |
| 09:05.34 | xzcvczx | rtyler: the closest i ever saw was icecream and that wouldnt suit moko anyway as moko builds its own gcc |
| 09:06.06 | rtyler | xzcvczx: why not create a Knoppix image with the necessary tools and go use the labs? |
| 09:06.19 | rtyler | I would dig the image, I'd do the same thing aronud here ;) |
| 09:06.35 | rtyler | xzcvczx: that, or use gentoo, I hear it's OMG SUPAR FAST! |
| 09:07.03 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host254-171-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:07.07 | xzcvczx | rtyler: lol all my linux boxes that i have had at all really have been gentoo |
| 09:07.16 | rtyler | :) |
| 09:07.28 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru_ (n=geaaru@host254-171-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:07.31 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelingGeek (n=atg@pool-71-161-37-205.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 09:08.00 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 09:09.06 | rxr | ljp: where did you spotted the arm710t? in the target sources ? |
| 09:10.15 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0F845.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:10.15 | rtyler | FWIW, I posted some 2007.2 vs. 2007.1 photos after trying out some of the newer images: http://www.unethicalblogger.com/posts/r_tyler_ballance/openmoko_2007_2_preview |
| 09:10.35 | ljp | rxr: running scripts/Config and selecting the neo project |
| 09:12.41 | rxr | ljp: heh :-) the target was just started, do not expect it to yield a shiny E17 phone application .-) |
| 09:12.44 | Basheri | rtyler: thx :P |
| 09:13.03 | ljp | its the system I am interested in |
| 09:13.09 | rtyler | 2007.2 is *hot* |
| 09:13.16 | rtyler | still kind of broke though :P |
| 09:13.53 | rxr | rtyler: yes, impressive what proken software is provided here after a year or so of work ... :-( |
| 09:14.42 | rtyler | rxr: I didn't mean it negatively, this is alpha software, I understand that :) |
| 09:15.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | I do not beleive that "phone" part of neo would be consumer-ready before start of 2008 |
| 09:15.40 | *** join/#openmoko SliMM (n=chatzill@89.137.226.12) |
| 09:16.03 | rtyler | Basheri: I need to learn how to hold the phone steady in from of my Mac, the pictures are all a tad bit blurry :P |
| 09:16.04 | SliMM | hello |
| 09:18.11 | rtyler | SWEET! My first "you're a moron" blog response: http://itconservative.blogspot.com/2007/08/openmoko-experiences.html |
| 09:18.17 | rtyler | that guy really doesn't like Linux on your phone |
| 09:18.27 | rtyler | and doesn't seem to get that the software is pre-alpha |
| 09:20.51 | yoyo | all: why when I implement more code in panel-applet I start to gen G_MAXLONG ? |
| 09:20.54 | Jiten | rtyler: that guy looks like he's missing a couple of braincells ... actually make that big chunks of braincells. |
| 09:21.09 | rtyler | HERESY! YOU FREE SOFTWARE IDIOT OMGROFL |
| 09:21.29 | rtyler | I think he's mistaking an open development process for "broken software" |
| 09:22.01 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:22.10 | Dmitry_Platonov | Anyway, I'd prefer GUI dialer & sound to work 8) |
| 09:22.21 | cjb_ie | well, look at the guy's profile: "free software is for poor people" |
| 09:22.39 | rtyler | Dmitry_Platonov: the GUI dialer works for me |
| 09:22.42 | cjb_ie | ...and his taste in music. he's clearly lacking brain |
| 09:22.51 | rtyler | still not sure why my sound doth not work ;) |
| 09:22.51 | Dmitry_Platonov | rtyler, 2007.1 one? |
| 09:22.51 | yoyo | Anny idea? |
| 09:22.55 | *** join/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:22.56 | rtyler | Dmitry_Platonov: both |
| 09:23.21 | rtyler | also, FWIW, I added all my photos to the OpenMoko flickr group (http://www.flickr.com/groups/openmoko/) |
| 09:25.33 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 09:27.16 | yoyo | who write's openmoko-panel? I need more allocated space in memory for plugin :...( |
| 09:27.29 | *** join/#openmoko Talpa (n=talpa@85.218.131.141) |
| 09:28.52 | xzcvczx | yoyo: have you got like a fractal generator or somehting you want in the panel? |
| 09:28.56 | rtyler | yoyo: maybe you should cut your memory profile ;) |
| 09:28.57 | doc|home | hehehe |
| 09:29.07 | rtyler | xzcvczx: HEY! I like fractals! ;) |
| 09:31.27 | xzcvczx | rtyler: yeah but i also heard you like pong :P |
| 09:31.44 | yoyo | I'm writing a bluetooth plugin. yesterday when a had on/off option everything who's ok. now I add radio (public, not public, public for ~3min.) and I'w got G_MAXLONG |
| 09:32.28 | yoyo | creating filechooser makes the same problem |
| 09:33.14 | *** join/#openmoko denis_da (n=anno@p5B07C9B2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:33.31 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@vnsecurity.net) |
| 09:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko Demonax_ (n=mukunda@60-234-155-226.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 09:37.09 | xzcvczx | fina-friggin-ly its built |
| 09:40.39 | rxr | ljp: you said it's the system you are interested in, did you mean E17 or T2 or something else ? |
| 09:41.44 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 09:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko Husare (n=AD@stgt-590e3d39.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 09:42.57 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 09:44.36 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 09:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 09:45.58 | ljp | rxr: I am interested in T2 as build system, cause thats what I do |
| 09:46.59 | rxr | ljp: for openmoko or other systems? did you know T2 before or is it new to you ? |
| 09:47.09 | ljp | new to me |
| 09:47.15 | rxr | (btw. the optimization setting was fixed in the target/neo1973/config.in, now :-) |
| 09:47.17 | ljp | for other syste,s |
| 09:47.22 | rxr | thanks for the pointer :-) |
| 09:47.28 | ljp | no worries |
| 09:47.40 | ljp | i like to see highly optimized things :) |
| 09:47.42 | rxr | t2 has lots of docuemtnation, 100p++ handbook and such |
| 09:48.03 | rxr | if you have trouble just ask on #t2 or the mailing-list :-) |
| 09:48.16 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 09:49.12 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:50.44 | Talpa | Any one who knows anything about the unavailable glibc-2.4 (the default replacement v2.6 failes to compile, and when forcing 2.5 using "PREFERRED_VERSION_glibc" and freinds the compile breaks due to a python exception inside glibc_2.5.bb) |
| 09:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8070.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:52.13 | ljp | rxr: have you build an image for neo using uclibc? |
| 09:53.44 | *** join/#openmoko dotmef (n=mef@mx1.bitwise.org) |
| 09:53.53 | rxr | ljp: it's just on the way |
| 09:54.09 | rxr | but so far I rsync over ssh the files on the /media/card of the Neo |
| 09:54.18 | rxr | image creation comes next |
| 09:54.35 | rxr | ljp: so far I still think about what init system to start with |
| 09:54.47 | rxr | I do not exactly like the 2m boottime of the OpenMoko with sysvinit |
| 09:54.58 | rxr | I used minit for minimal systems in the past |
| 09:55.17 | rxr | but still hesitate to use it in combination with the UI parts ... |
| 09:55.22 | ljp | busybox has init |
| 09:55.27 | rxr | any votes? |
| 09:55.37 | rxr | yeah - or just the busybox one ... |
| 09:57.01 | ljp | well, if you are going to run bootchart, dont use the busybox init, as it wont work |
| 09:57.43 | rxr | bootchart is? the OpenMoko progress screen ? |
| 09:57.54 | rxr | or: |
| 09:57.58 | rxr | http://www.bootchart.org/ |
| 09:58.04 | ljp | yep |
| 09:59.45 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 10:00.06 | jgm | Is anyone out there using either a hosted or their own local syncml server? I'm thinking of setting up funambol server on my own box but would take a less-effort route if one existed... |
| 10:00.49 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:01.55 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo76@host86-152-177-134.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:06.31 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-203-133.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:09.00 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg__ (n=thomasg@p57AFEEBE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@ip5457b8f8.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 10:09.33 | yoyo | small step :) |
| 10:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko emdel (n=emdel@host52-208-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:14.09 | *** join/#openmoko alUrdun_ (n=jordan@64.180.95.163) |
| 10:15.47 | *** join/#openmoko balthamaisteri (n=balthama@statip-80-95-136-152.kopteri.net) |
| 10:16.26 | ScaredyCat | jgm: |
| 10:16.28 | ScaredyCat | ping |
| 10:16.50 | jgm | jgm is alive (as much as you can expect for a Sunday morning, anyway) |
| 10:16.51 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 10:17.27 | ScaredyCat | lol - just watched some crappy iphone 'speaker' thing on 'Something for the weekend' .... |
| 10:17.43 | ScaredyCat | funambol has a simple 'all you need' install |
| 10:18.00 | ScaredyCat | for either winders on linux |
| 10:18.00 | ScaredyCat | http://www.funambol.com/opensource/downloads.html |
| 10:18.22 | jgm | Yeah, except that I don't want to have to worry about maintaining the whole thing (I already run web services and email for people and keeping the infrastructure running eats enough of my time as it is) |
| 10:18.23 | ScaredyCat | it's a 10-15 minute job. |
| 10:18.36 | jgm | So I'll do it if I need to but if someone else has already done it and is selling accounts I'd buy one |
| 10:18.41 | jgm | (And if not why not???) |
| 10:18.41 | ScaredyCat | ahh I thought you were just going to experiment |
| 10:19.31 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 10:19.49 | yoyo | haa :) I'w got it :) |
| 10:19.55 | jgm | I figure that if I sync all of my various contact databases to one source it'll be ready when I come to using my neo as my primary 'phone |
| 10:20.07 | ScaredyCat | http://www.simchronise.com/ |
| 10:21.14 | jgm | Looks interesting, will take a look. Thank |
| 10:21.17 | jgm | s/Thank/Thanks/ |
| 10:21.59 | ScaredyCat | http://www.fusionone.com/index.php |
| 10:22.05 | ScaredyCat | also |
| 10:22.47 | ScaredyCat | but it's much more fun running your own server :) |
| 10:28.22 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@p5081E504.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:34.09 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 10:45.11 | *** join/#openmoko alexzhang (n=alexzhan@219.133.200.199) |
| 10:45.51 | *** part/#openmoko alexzhang (n=alexzhan@219.133.200.199) |
| 10:46.53 | SliMM | is there an openmoko emulator or smth like that? |
| 10:47.08 | SliMM | i want to write some apps, but i don't have a neo phone |
| 10:47.42 | rtyler | Qemu :) |
| 10:48.04 | rtyler | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Running_OpenMoko_on_PC |
| 10:48.06 | *** join/#openmoko emdel (n=emdel@host52-208-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:48.21 | SliMM | great, thanks :) |
| 10:48.26 | yoyo | hihi public not public :) |
| 10:48.32 | Talpa | SliMM: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 10:48.51 | SliMM | can it emulate the gps and other functions of neo? |
| 10:49.02 | rtyler | how on earth would it do that? :P |
| 10:49.03 | Basheri | just let the mokomakefile do the job |
| 10:49.46 | Basheri | :D |
| 10:51.02 | SliMM | rtyler: random satelite data :) |
| 10:51.19 | SliMM | oh, i'm running windows, is that ok? |
| 10:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 10:51.51 | cjb_ie | SliMM: connect to some random gpsd running somewhere? |
| 10:51.56 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-201-153.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:52.02 | SliMM | i have a debian virtual machine |
| 10:52.24 | SliMM | cjb_ie: no, just generate random or close-to-random gps data |
| 10:52.39 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@cable-vrk-fe5cdd00-177.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:53.01 | SliMM | i'll use the virtual machine |
| 10:53.15 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qc048.q.pppool.de) |
| 10:54.22 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=anno@p5B07C9B2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:54.29 | rtyler | not to self, when running the MokoMakefile for the first time, get ready for a long wait, have other activities planned for about 40 minutes or so >_< |
| 10:54.32 | cjb_ie | i can probably dig up an nmea file a couple of hours long, if you were to pass that to gpsd one line at a time via a pipe maybe? |
| 10:54.54 | *** join/#openmoko emdel_ (n=emdel@host229-213-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:55.48 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 10:56.17 | SliMM | i have arm-elf-gcc in my virtual machine |
| 10:56.43 | SliMM | is it good for compiling? |
| 10:59.39 | xzcvczx | rtyler: ha ha yeah for me i am more looking at ~ 24 hrs |
| 11:00.10 | mickeyl | rwhitby: FYI: ETA on announcement + snapshot + (if you have a chance) MokoMakeFile changes = Aug. 19th |
| 11:00.17 | SliMM | and i'll be running it in VMware player :) |
| 11:00.22 | rtyler | omg it's mickeyl |
| 11:00.30 | mickeyl | morning guys |
| 11:01.14 | raster | hmm |
| 11:01.19 | raster | good mood |
| 11:01.20 | rtyler | shall we ruin it? :) |
| 11:01.21 | raster | bad temper |
| 11:01.22 | raster | :) |
| 11:01.28 | raster | not good temper :) |
| 11:01.33 | mickeyl | raster: ok, so much for dict.leo.org |
| 11:01.34 | raster | don't ask |
| 11:01.36 | raster | it's english |
| 11:01.46 | raster | i didnt' invent it |
| 11:01.52 | rtyler | mickeyl: if in doubt, say it in german and we'll translate appropriately ;) |
| 11:01.53 | mickeyl | right |
| 11:01.54 | SliMM | my pc is a mess.. |
| 11:01.59 | mickeyl | rtyler: :D |
| 11:02.00 | raster | ich kann es bloß |
| 11:02.05 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 11:02.14 | raster | ein bißchen sprecehn |
| 11:02.25 | xzcvczx | mickeyl: does that mean we will have openmoko-*2 in 1 week? |
| 11:02.43 | xzcvczx | in mokomakefile |
| 11:02.47 | mickeyl | xzcvczx: Yes. |
| 11:02.51 | xzcvczx | sweet |
| 11:03.06 | xzcvczx | why does it have to be a sunday night :( |
| 11:03.08 | xzcvczx | :P |
| 11:03.22 | mickeyl | might make it for Friday, lets see |
| 11:03.31 | xzcvczx | sweet |
| 11:03.34 | rtyler | mickeyl: is there a server running something like cruisecontrol or something to build regular snapshots? |
| 11:03.43 | xzcvczx | mickeyl: nah dont worry about me...... its just these damn timezones :S |
| 11:03.47 | SpeedEvil | snapshots would be nice. |
| 11:04.06 | mickeyl | rtyler: internally, yes. we're planning to make these snapshots available on a regular basis soon. |
| 11:04.25 | rtyler | thanks, I would like to fuck up my phone on a more regular basis ;) |
| 11:04.31 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 11:04.34 | mickeyl | excellent |
| 11:04.51 | mickeyl | once the official P1 snapshot is out, we'll have a feed anyways |
| 11:04.52 | rtyler | or, danke, ich werde gerne mein Handy verbricken |
| 11:04.57 | mickeyl | to make ipkg upgrade working |
| 11:05.03 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 11:05.11 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07D12A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:05.12 | mickeyl | s/verbricken/in einen Backstein verwandeln/ |
| 11:05.30 | Markinoko | Backstein verwandeln ? |
| 11:05.36 | Basheri | O_o |
| 11:05.46 | mickeyl | ya, that's what we germans say for "bricking it" |
| 11:05.47 | xzcvczx | has anyone else had the issue with their phone that if the front cover is on properly it prevents the touchscreen working properly |
| 11:05.47 | rtyler | turn your phone into a brick wall O_O |
| 11:05.52 | Markinoko | my german's a bit rusty... |
| 11:05.55 | Markinoko | ah |
| 11:05.59 | Markinoko | heh :-D |
| 11:06.11 | Basheri | they are encrypting their messages |
| 11:06.25 | rtyler | mickeyl: I think you should all start adopting the term "verbricken", mostly because that'll make me giggle everytime i see it ;) |
| 11:06.39 | mickeyl | xzcvczx: darn. manufacturing problem. please remove the torx and the cover, and put it on again, that should help. might as well reseat the buttons while you're at it |
| 11:06.41 | xzcvczx | mickeyl: in english we just call it oh |
| 11:06.57 | xzcvczx | mickeyl: in english we just call it oh **** i just ****ed up my phone and dont have a debug board |
| 11:07.02 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 11:07.07 | mickeyl | debug boards are overrated |
| 11:07.18 | rtyler | yeah, I'm hoping I don't brick this, given the apparent shortage >_< |
| 11:07.46 | xzcvczx | mickeyl: i have done that a couple of times now and have now just resorted to leave the case not properly screwed in and sitting about a mm out from being seated properly |
| 11:07.54 | Markinoko | common guys, it's not like a PSP, there are tools to unbrick your phones |
| 11:08.11 | rtyler | anybody using the 200070810 image from nslu2-linux.org? |
| 11:08.13 | xzcvczx | Markinoko: like what.... a sledgehammer? |
| 11:08.16 | rtyler | (http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/openmoko/images/OpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-.dev-snapshot-20070810-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2) |
| 11:08.29 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 11:08.31 | SliMM | started building qemu for neo :) |
| 11:08.32 | Markinoko | xzcvczx: well, that's one yes :-P |
| 11:08.41 | rtyler | or, a hefty bottle of vodka :) |
| 11:08.51 | rtyler | that'll solve all your Neo problems by presenting new ones ;) |
| 11:08.56 | Markinoko | rtyler: planning on getting your phone drunk ? |
| 11:08.58 | SliMM | how long will it take? |
| 11:09.01 | rxr | usr/bin/mplayer |
| 11:09.01 | rxr | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:09.05 | xzcvczx | rtyler: yeah then you can drink the vodka and smash the crap out of the phone with the bottle |
| 11:09.18 | rtyler | xzcvczx: ahhh, reminds me of moscow :D |
| 11:09.33 | rtyler | SliMM: on a good machine a couple of minutes |
| 11:09.43 | rtyler | xzcvczx: whazzat? |
| 11:09.49 | ScaredyCat | brackets |
| 11:09.53 | rtyler | oh, heh |
| 11:09.54 | ScaredyCat | pointeless |
| 11:09.59 | ScaredyCat | and break irc clients |
| 11:10.09 | Markinoko | xzcvczx: no problems here with pidgin |
| 11:10.16 | SliMM | rtyler: in a virtual debian machine running on a dirty broken windows machine? :P |
| 11:10.23 | xzcvczx | Markinoko: well i am on mirc |
| 11:10.27 | rtyler | SliMM: twelve weeks |
| 11:10.29 | xzcvczx | hmmm thats a point does moko have irssi |
| 11:10.37 | xzcvczx | dangit |
| 11:10.43 | rtyler | xzcvczx: iif you build it..they will come :) |
| 11:10.44 | SliMM | thanks :P |
| 11:10.54 | Markinoko | xzcvczx: the answer is, openmoko has a cross compiler |
| 11:11.08 | xzcvczx | at least thaey have a real ps client in mickeyl's build |
| 11:11.15 | xzcvczx | s/client// |
| 11:11.17 | mmazur | SliMM, you've bricked your neo? :) |
| 11:11.25 | mickeyl | 3 |
| 11:11.32 | rxr | # mplayer power.mp3 |
| 11:11.32 | rxr | MPlayer dev-SVN-rUNKNOWN-4.2.1 (C) 2000-2007 MPlayer Team |
| 11:11.32 | rxr | CPU: ARM |
| 11:11.40 | SliMM | i know it's a bit off-topic, but what does albeit mean? |
| 11:11.41 | rxr | ^- T2/uClibC/Neo1973 ... |
| 11:11.51 | xzcvczx | lol i have upgraded my uboot once shitting myself the whole time |
| 11:11.58 | xzcvczx | SliMM: although? |
| 11:12.01 | xzcvczx | i think |
| 11:12.02 | ScaredyCat | rxr: so now it's not a 15tb elf image :) |
| 11:12.10 | SliMM | mmazur: no, i don't have a neo, i'll wait until october |
| 11:12.21 | ScaredyCat | all be it |
| 11:12.23 | mmazur | Blah. |
| 11:12.30 | mmazur | ScaredyCat, you've bricked your neo? :) |
| 11:12.30 | SliMM | mmazur: i just want to take a look at writting apps for openmoko |
| 11:12.42 | ScaredyCat | mmazur: bricked and unbricked |
| 11:12.54 | ScaredyCat | well, part-bricked |
| 11:12.55 | SliMM | mmazur: i also need to get some money for buying a neo |
| 11:13.19 | rtyler | get to work then ;) |
| 11:13.22 | SliMM | haha, built |
| 11:13.32 | Markinoko | is there realy a way to completely brick a neo ? |
| 11:13.42 | mmazur | With a brick. |
| 11:13.43 | rtyler | Markinoko: encase it in mortar :D |
| 11:13.53 | xzcvczx | Markinoko: by stuffing your uboot and not having a devel board |
| 11:14.11 | cjb_ie | you could hook AC up to the battery terminals maybe |
| 11:14.56 | Markinoko | I meant with a debug board... well I guess the vodka technic would work |
| 11:14.57 | xzcvczx | is there any reason why "nand erase rootfs" is not a function of dfu-util |
| 11:15.06 | SliMM | how do i install lynx? |
| 11:15.16 | *** part/#openmoko Demonax (n=mukunda@60-234-155-226.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 11:15.17 | Markinoko | SliMM: make install |
| 11:15.24 | ScaredyCat | awesome! |
| 11:15.26 | cjb_ie | Markinoko: vodka's often good for cleaning out the results of water damage to electronics |
| 11:15.31 | ScaredyCat | not dropping frames |
| 11:15.40 | ScaredyCat | tiny tiny window |
| 11:15.50 | Markinoko | cjb_ie: so it's actually an unbricking technic |
| 11:15.53 | SliMM | markinoko: don't i have to download it first? |
| 11:16.06 | Markinoko | SliMM: well, yes ;-) |
| 11:16.25 | cjb_ie | Markinoko: good eh ;-) |
| 11:16.36 | Markinoko | SliMM: but it should be straightforward to compile |
| 11:17.13 | SliMM | and will it work by using the lynx command? |
| 11:17.47 | Markinoko | SliMM: a bad surprise is possible, but unlikely |
| 11:17.50 | xkr47 | 13:42 < xkr47> hmh now plugging the usb jammed the device and I get "device descriptor read/64, error -110" in the host computer |
| 11:17.53 | xkr47 | 13:42 < xkr47> or jammed == does not respond to toucscreen |
| 11:17.55 | xkr47 | 13:47 < xkr47> same thing happened again |
| 11:17.58 | xkr47 | 13:47 < xkr47> I tail -f /var/log/messages this time on the moko |
| 11:18.00 | xkr47 | 13:47 < xkr47> I got a single ^@ i.e. nul byte |
| 11:18.03 | xkr47 | 13:48 < xkr47> I guess the kernel uImage-2.6.21.5-r2-fic-gta01.bin has some problem.. |
| 11:18.03 | yoyo | seee a (famyli dyner) |
| 11:18.14 | ScaredyCat | xkr47: !!!!! |
| 11:18.34 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bricked |
| 11:18.35 | rtyler | mickeyl: do you know if they're plans to market the Neo/OpenMoko in the US? |
| 11:18.42 | xkr47 | woot.. |
| 11:18.45 | ScaredyCat | I had that error on my host |
| 11:18.48 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: You can buy it online. |
| 11:19.08 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: selling through operators won't happen till the very earliest mid 2008. |
| 11:19.09 | xkr47 | ScaredyCat, it's not bricked.. I shut it down normally and boot it back up .. works fine again |
| 11:19.21 | xkr47 | ScaredyCat, it just locks up when I unplug, wait 30 sec, replug |
| 11:19.22 | ScaredyCat | i wasn't suggesting that... |
| 11:19.29 | SliMM | could you please give me a link to lynx' source, i can't find it on google |
| 11:19.36 | SpeedEvil | Probably more into 2009. |
| 11:19.41 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 11:19.44 | SpeedEvil | lynx.org |
| 11:20.29 | *** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 11:20.37 | SliMM | SpeedEvil: That's an ISP |
| 11:20.54 | Markinoko | SliMM: hold on |
| 11:20.55 | SpeedEvil | lynx.isc.org |
| 11:21.02 | SliMM | by 'lynx', do you mean the text-based browser? |
| 11:21.27 | Markinoko | SliMM: http://lynx.isc.org/release/ |
| 11:21.30 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: do you find gsmd crashes regularly in .2? |
| 11:21.59 | ScaredyCat | I find it's pretty useless |
| 11:22.00 | xzcvczx | well anyone with .2 |
| 11:22.46 | ScaredyCat | not even sure if most of the .2 stuff is just show and doesn;t do antthing |
| 11:22.53 | ScaredyCat | hav you made a call with .2? |
| 11:23.00 | SliMM | markinoko: is this the 'lynx' used for flashing the neo emu? |
| 11:23.11 | Markinoko | SliMM: hu ? |
| 11:23.35 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: well i am not too worried about gui stuff at the moment i am more looking at gsmd backend |
| 11:23.37 | Markinoko | SliMM: so you were not asking for the text based browser I guess... |
| 11:23.48 | SliMM | i don't know |
| 11:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@p5497604D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:24.02 | xkr47 | ScaredyCat, cg on getting your neo back :) |
| 11:24.14 | Markinoko | SliMM: to flash qemu, all the tools are given with the mokomakefile |
| 11:24.21 | ScaredyCat | yeah.. was a bit hairy for a bit there xkr47 |
| 11:24.27 | Markinoko | aaaaaaahhhhh !! |
| 11:24.29 | Markinoko | this |
| 11:24.34 | xkr47 | looks so, yeah.. |
| 11:24.34 | ScaredyCat | thanks to cesarb, anrp and SpeedEvil |
| 11:24.43 | Markinoko | SliMM: I suppose it's to download an official image |
| 11:24.52 | Markinoko | SliMM: but I thought they used wget ? |
| 11:24.56 | xkr47 | ScaredyCat, thanks for documenting the effort :) |
| 11:25.08 | SliMM | markinoko: so it's the browser? |
| 11:25.10 | ScaredyCat | hehe... |
| 11:25.20 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 11:25.22 | ScaredyCat | did raise some interesting points though.. |
| 11:25.32 | ScaredyCat | at least we got something out of it.. |
| 11:25.36 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: what happened with your phone? |
| 11:25.39 | Markinoko | SliMM: well, I guess it is. I'm still surprised. I don't have lynx on my laptop and I still managed to flash my qemu |
| 11:25.51 | xkr47 | ScaredyCat, yeah |
| 11:25.52 | ScaredyCat | it nearly went down the tilet |
| 11:25.56 | ScaredyCat | toilet |
| 11:25.58 | xkr47 | :O |
| 11:26.09 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 11:26.09 | xkr47 | the phone or the experience ?-P |
| 11:26.11 | SliMM | markinoko: well, maybe you didn't use that scripts |
| 11:26.11 | ScaredyCat | I made a typo xzcvczx... |
| 11:26.11 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: lol cant say i have taken it near my toilet |
| 11:26.35 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bricked <-- describes some of it |
| 11:26.46 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: I was just curious, wondering if the carriers will even acknowledge the product ;) |
| 11:27.13 | ScaredyCat | I was just lucky that the part of memory overwritten still allowed it to boot |
| 11:27.28 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 11:27.39 | Markinoko | SliMM: you want to read the part that says "Using MokoMakefile" |
| 11:27.57 | Markinoko | SliMM: it is much more simple with mokomakefile to get a qemu up and running |
| 11:28.23 | ScaredyCat | I've left a few bricks in there before.... |
| 11:28.28 | rtyler | >_> |
| 11:28.29 | ScaredyCat | usually on Boxing day |
| 11:28.34 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 11:28.39 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.64) |
| 11:30.12 | SliMM | markinoko: how do i get mokomakefile :d |
| 11:30.19 | SliMM | ? |
| 11:30.39 | Markinoko | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 11:30.42 | xzcvczx | SliMM: read the wiki article |
| 11:31.03 | Markinoko | SliMM: you don't need to build a whole system, only do the part about qemu |
| 11:31.04 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X1eff.x.pppool.de) |
| 11:31.30 | Markinoko | SliMM: instead of compiling the whole image yourself, you can use a precompiled official image |
| 11:31.41 | SliMM | ok |
| 11:31.45 | SliMM | thanks |
| 11:32.28 | Markinoko | SliMM: but I read that you'll still need lynx... and I do have it on my computer, just checked... my bad |
| 11:32.30 | ScaredyCat | xzcvczx: what we did think was that you could modify the splash by stuffing it into qemu, then dd'ing out the env and 3 blocks... |
| 11:32.48 | Markinoko | SliMM: although you should easily find a package for your distro |
| 11:32.53 | ScaredyCat | but qemu sd card emulation is broken, so there's no way to get it off the emulation |
| 11:33.11 | SliMM | markinoko: i have debian in a virtual machine |
| 11:33.26 | Markinoko | SliMM: debian has a package, I'm sure about that |
| 11:34.05 | SliMM | ok, i'll take a look over it a bit later, i now need to earn some money for buying a neo :P |
| 11:35.53 | SliMM | bye now, and thanks |
| 11:36.00 | SliMM | i'll be back later :P |
| 11:36.43 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: so did it physically go in the toilet? |
| 11:39.52 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-205-21.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:40.25 | ScaredyCat | no - that was a joke |
| 11:40.43 | *** join/#openmoko emdel_ (n=emdel@host92-208-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:40.45 | ScaredyCat | s/joke/failed joke/ |
| 11:42.13 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 11:42.15 | ScaredyCat | anrp: was doing one hhf423 |
| 11:43.11 | hhf423 | anrp: you did a win32 dfu util? |
| 11:43.34 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: thanks |
| 11:46.00 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 11:47.20 | rtyler | hrm, copying the Aug 10th image over via ext2load in the console seems to have either hung, or is taking an insanely long time :/ |
| 11:48.11 | mdt | does someone know the cause for the note 'NOTE: Upload support is currently broken' for dfu-util? |
| 11:48.55 | hhf423 | should I flash a new u-boot? I have the one which is one the phone from factory now. |
| 11:49.16 | ScaredyCat | hhf423: no.. |
| 11:49.20 | ScaredyCat | why would you do that |
| 11:49.22 | *** join/#openmoko the_void (n=jim@c83-252-232-28.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 11:49.27 | rtyler | verbricken! |
| 11:49.46 | hhf423 | ScaredyCat: because the one I have seems to power down after 30 or so sec? |
| 11:49.58 | ScaredyCat | they all do |
| 11:50.06 | hhf423 | ah, ok. no worries then |
| 11:50.11 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 11:50.17 | ScaredyCat | press the aux button every so often |
| 11:50.35 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: so what did you actually do to b0rk it |
| 11:51.21 | ScaredyCat | A typing error in the splashimage environment variable resulted in the splash image being read into the memory starting at 0x200000 rather than 0x32000000. The change was written, with the error being unnoticed, using saveenv. |
| 11:52.12 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 11:52.15 | *** join/#openmoko eesu (n=eesu@a88-114-200-74.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:52.34 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: so what did you actually do to b0rk it |
| 11:53.12 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 11:53.22 | ScaredyCat | it's the matrix! |
| 11:53.38 | xzcvczx | yup i just edited your nuts off |
| 11:53.43 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 11:53.47 | xzcvczx | they are about 2 feet in front of you now |
| 11:54.04 | xkr47 | the built in accelerometers surely should have detected that |
| 11:54.15 | xkr47 | sliiightly off-topic |
| 11:55.31 | xzcvczx | are there any kiwis left here still waiting on their phone to be shipped |
| 11:55.36 | Markinoko | now, who said a free phone would drive you nuts... |
| 11:55.44 | xkr47 | kiwis ?-P |
| 11:56.06 | xzcvczx | yeah fat birds who cant fly |
| 11:56.20 | xzcvczx | nocturnal fat birds who cant fly |
| 11:56.23 | hhf423 | which are the most sensible images to use at the moment? for rootfs etc? |
| 11:56.34 | ScaredyCat | fat birds only come out at night? |
| 11:56.46 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: lol these ones do |
| 11:57.14 | Markinoko | actually, I think kiwis have dissappeared |
| 11:57.32 | xzcvczx | http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/02/images/060217_kiwi.jpg |
| 11:57.34 | ScaredyCat | how can you tell? they only come out at night... then it's dark |
| 11:57.36 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 11:58.05 | xzcvczx | dont you have "kiwi's" in the usa that are a "fruit"? |
| 11:58.20 | Kensan | hhf423: latest buildhost images worked fine for me. |
| 11:58.26 | ScaredyCat | and a fruit is a faggot? |
| 11:58.47 | xzcvczx | and a faggot is a bundle of sticks that you got? |
| 11:59.10 | ScaredyCat | actually, faggots are like meatballs... |
| 11:59.19 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 11:59.20 | mdt | kiwis are the cause for the big hole in the neo so they can carry it with their beak? |
| 11:59.21 | hhf423 | Kensan: you did not use http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ ? |
| 11:59.23 | xzcvczx | you just want to suck on them? |
| 11:59.39 | ScaredyCat | errm |
| 11:59.41 | ScaredyCat | http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/faggotswithoniongrav_3899.shtml |
| 11:59.49 | *** join/#openmoko defer (n=defer@87-196-157-72.net.novis.pt) |
| 12:00.12 | xkr47 | stop the food / animal chat already |
| 12:00.14 | xkr47 | pls |
| 12:00.16 | Kensan | hhf423: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/?C=M;O=D |
| 12:00.19 | xzcvczx | lol on-topic discussion is so much fun |
| 12:00.49 | xzcvczx | xkr47: they started it i was talking on-topic at the start by asking if there were any kiwi's still waiting on phones |
| 12:01.27 | ScaredyCat | kiwis ?-P |
| 12:02.12 | xzcvczx | kiwi is a name for nzers based on one of our native endagered species the kiwi |
| 12:02.32 | ScaredyCat | nzers ? |
| 12:02.40 | Kensan | New Zealanders |
| 12:02.45 | xzcvczx | thanks Kensan |
| 12:02.46 | ScaredyCat | New? |
| 12:02.49 | xzcvczx | at least someone knoes |
| 12:02.51 | xzcvczx | knows |
| 12:03.15 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: it's the aussies vs. the kiwis |
| 12:03.20 | Kensan | ;) |
| 12:03.43 | ScaredyCat | well, the aussies would win.... they're all crims ..... |
| 12:04.12 | ScaredyCat | isn't nz just au without the nasty bugs |
| 12:04.34 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: pretty much |
| 12:04.47 | xzcvczx | and a lot less money |
| 12:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 12:04.55 | PBeck | hi |
| 12:04.59 | ScaredyCat | and people... |
| 12:05.04 | ScaredyCat | but more sheep |
| 12:05.06 | hhf423 | Kensan: so you used openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 and uImage-2.6.21.6-moko11-r1_0_0_2388_0-fic-gta01.bin ? |
| 12:05.20 | xzcvczx | 7hrs and counting |
| 12:05.21 | PBeck | hi |
| 12:05.58 | ScaredyCat | someone added nfs into the build and broke it ? |
| 12:06.05 | ScaredyCat | lo PBeck |
| 12:06.27 | Talpa | xzcvczx: yes one can really wast cpu cycles building moko |
| 12:06.59 | xzcvczx | Talpa: well that too but nah this is wasting precious cpu cycles for building openmoko building a haskell compiler |
| 12:07.10 | Kensan | hhf423: yes, but feel free to flash any image you like. As long as you don't brick uBoot you can always put a different image on it. |
| 12:07.17 | PBeck | hi ScaredyCat :) |
| 12:07.50 | hhf423 | Kensan: ok |
| 12:07.55 | ScaredyCat | I see you pop in (just as I'm leaving) and always say 'hi' |
| 12:08.00 | Talpa | hhf423: good for you... now you have the chance to install gentoo |
| 12:08.24 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 12:08.28 | ScaredyCat | now gentoo is good at wasting cycles |
| 12:08.29 | Kensan | Talpa: Gentoo is not the right distribution to "get to know linux". |
| 12:08.39 | xzcvczx | Kensan: i disagree |
| 12:08.56 | xzcvczx | Kensan: its the only thing that actually got me to learn linux to a decent degree |
| 12:09.04 | xzcvczx | the rest dont teach you much at all |
| 12:09.09 | Talpa | xzcvczx: is't gentoo best at using cpu cycles |
| 12:09.11 | hhf423 | Talpa: I totally do not care about distributions, I just want to flash my Neo |
| 12:09.12 | ScaredyCat | no. |
| 12:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko bja (n=bja@c83-250-170-184.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 12:09.22 | ScaredyCat | gentoo is the worst for that... |
| 12:09.30 | ScaredyCat | xzcvczx: everything you know is a lie |
| 12:09.31 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@port-87-234-84-205.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 12:09.32 | Kensan | xzcvczx: let me explain: getting to know linux in the sense of making your first baby steps into the linux world. |
| 12:10.07 | xzcvczx | Kensan: with the gui installtion now its easier |
| 12:10.16 | ScaredyCat | yeah, when os/2 warp won |
| 12:10.23 | hhf423 | exactly! |
| 12:11.00 | Kensan | xzcvczx: yes, sure. but there's too much breakage *all* the time. It's not geared towards people wanting to give linux a try. |
| 12:11.16 | Kensan | but each to his/her own. |
| 12:11.30 | ScaredyCat | well, that unmask stuff is crap.. |
| 12:11.44 | ScaredyCat | If I want to install stuff , *I* want to install it |
| 12:12.08 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: hence why you add it to unmask |
| 12:12.34 | ScaredyCat | no, wget src-tarball |
| 12:12.50 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: lol you can still do that anyway |
| 12:13.00 | ScaredyCat | untar... ./configure && make & make cheese |
| 12:13.17 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: there is nothing to stop you doing that |
| 12:13.33 | ScaredyCat | there's a whole generation of people who'll never understand dependancy hell |
| 12:13.52 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: what do you use? |
| 12:14.03 | ScaredyCat | lfs ;) |
| 12:14.19 | raster | thats true |
| 12:14.23 | raster | the better we make our tools |
| 12:14.26 | raster | the less peolpe know |
| 12:14.32 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: go out one friday night and find yourself a lady friend |
| 12:14.34 | raster | as they just expect things to 'be done for them" |
| 12:14.47 | hhf423 | hahaha, good reason for making crap tools |
| 12:14.51 | raster | there is a new generation of programmers/developers who dont know that the stack and the heap are |
| 12:14.57 | ScaredyCat | xzcvczx: I'm married... she might object |
| 12:15.03 | raster | thewy dont know what a page is |
| 12:15.06 | hhf423 | I'll use that one the next time someone complains about a tool :-) |
| 12:15.14 | raster | and actually have no clue what cache and buffers are |
| 12:15.23 | raster | all they know is how to catch an exception |
| 12:15.30 | ScaredyCat | yeah.. |
| 12:15.31 | raster | or use some java class |
| 12:15.40 | raster | if its harder than chosing what java class to use |
| 12:15.43 | raster | its obviously too hard |
| 12:15.55 | raster | it scares me to think - this is where things are going |
| 12:16.05 | raster | where is the clue all going to go? |
| 12:16.08 | Jiten | raster: it just allows for the ones that do know shine that much brighter ;) |
| 12:16.11 | Talpa | uhmm coffee |
| 12:16.18 | ScaredyCat | raster: we'll be dead by then |
| 12:16.24 | raster | Jiten: true. job security :) |
| 12:16.34 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm4-3-0-240.802.cz) |
| 12:16.43 | Talpa | YES its done building nano! |
| 12:16.50 | ScaredyCat | wtf! |
| 12:16.56 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 12:16.58 | ScaredyCat | what's wrong with vi! |
| 12:17.00 | xzcvczx | Talpa: howd you build nano |
| 12:17.05 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: too use to nano |
| 12:17.06 | Talpa | bitbake nano |
| 12:17.13 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 12:17.14 | xzcvczx | ahhh you did it that way |
| 12:17.17 | hhf423 | vi -- beginners pronounce it "Why I?" |
| 12:17.36 | ScaredyCat | no, that's people from Newcastle |
| 12:17.44 | hhf423 | xzcvczx: he obviously did it the easy way... |
| 12:17.45 | Talpa | disk usage only 727MB .... |
| 12:18.07 | ScaredyCat | xzcvczx: were you deliberately trying to make it hard for yourself then ? |
| 12:18.09 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: if vim would build on my host i might start using it but its not building at the moment |
| 12:18.29 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: no just so many ipks are created i cbf installing them all |
| 12:18.57 | ScaredyCat | hehe |
| 12:19.35 | *** join/#openmoko eesu_ (n=eesu@a88-114-200-74.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:20.20 | xzcvczx | what do people use for c programming in linux cmdline? |
| 12:20.36 | Talpa | emacs? |
| 12:21.11 | ScaredyCat | vi |
| 12:21.19 | raster | xzcvczx: jed |
| 12:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@p5081E504.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:21.26 | Talpa | should't they say emacs or vim? |
| 12:21.27 | hhf423 | copy con helloworld.c |
| 12:21.40 | ScaredyCat | i bet there's a joe user out there too |
| 12:21.42 | xzcvczx | Talpa: i was meaning vi derivative/clone |
| 12:21.55 | ScaredyCat | xzcvczx: i only use vi |
| 12:22.45 | mdt | xzcvczx, vim. |
| 12:23.09 | ScaredyCat | ppfpt amateur ;) |
| 12:23.16 | mdt | :D |
| 12:23.35 | mdt | ...but who switched of '.' in the vi on the neo?? |
| 12:24.25 | robtaylor | mdt: its busybox vi |
| 12:24.27 | Talpa | hhf423: try yelling at it |
| 12:24.38 | mdt | robtaylor, i know - so what? |
| 12:24.44 | robtaylor | mdt: not-quite-vi |
| 12:24.48 | ScaredyCat | it's not real |
| 12:24.48 | hhf423 | Talpa: :-) |
| 12:25.19 | mdt | robtaylor, i saw one busybox-vi that was capable to do so... i assume it's switched off somehow... |
| 12:25.57 | robtaylor | mdt: hmm, check the busybox config |
| 12:26.05 | mdt | i already do so... :) |
| 12:28.02 | Talpa | NOTE: package vim-7.0: completed |
| 12:28.16 | Talpa | well it compiles |
| 12:31.49 | mdt | yes, they switched it off: # CONFIG_FEATURE_VI_DOT_CMD is not set |
| 12:32.47 | guerby | counter |
| 12:32.48 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter Got it, get yours from openmoko.com (and read topic) (1800;252) |
| 12:34.19 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 12:36.33 | xzcvczx | mdt: i think its probably off by default in busybox |
| 12:36.50 | mdt | xzcvczx, i think oe did so... |
| 12:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko Husare_ (n=AD@stgt-590e36cc.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 12:40.42 | Talpa | btw. am I the only one that has problems using more than one cpu when using bitbake? |
| 12:41.17 | Talpa | when it runs make it used the specified number of cpus |
| 12:41.25 | xzcvczx | Talpa: send me the computer and i will have it instead :P |
| 12:41.58 | rtyler | anybody getting errors like this when loading files in the console from the SD card? |
| 12:42.01 | rtyler | http://pastebin.ca/654433 |
| 12:43.00 | xzcvczx | sounds like a non properly compiled ext2load |
| 12:43.09 | xzcvczx | as in not for cpu in phone |
| 12:43.30 | rtyler | considering I've not changed u-boot ever, I don't see how that would work ;) |
| 12:43.41 | rtyler | I performed this same action with a different image yesterday >_< |
| 12:44.38 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 12:44.45 | Talpa | xzcvczx: but I need all the cores I can get my hands on for my self |
| 12:45.04 | ScaredyCat | so why not ext2 support in the neo ,other than u-boot :/ |
| 12:45.11 | ScaredyCat | s/not/no/ |
| 12:45.47 | ScaredyCat | i wouldn;t have to buy a card reader then |
| 12:45.54 | ScaredyCat | apt: stfu |
| 12:45.55 | apt | :( |
| 12:45.59 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:46.04 | rtyler | apt: piss of |
| 12:46.05 | apt | ACTION of goes behind Beans & Brews and waters a tree |
| 12:46.06 | rtyler | off even |
| 12:46.09 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: that works? |
| 12:46.16 | rtyler | well, that's convenient |
| 12:46.17 | ScaredyCat | dunno |
| 12:46.27 | xzcvczx | s/works// |
| 12:46.28 | ScaredyCat | s/dunno/puppy/ |
| 12:46.31 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 12:46.34 | xzcvczx | grrrr |
| 12:46.45 | ScaredyCat | apt: /ignore apt |
| 12:46.52 | xzcvczx | s///quit/ |
| 12:46.53 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 12:47.06 | El_Salvador | PCW: Is there a planned list of applications that will ship with the consumer version in October? In particular, which Web browser, e-mail client, and calendar will it ship with? |
| 12:47.06 | El_Salvador | OpenMoko: Yes, we do have a list. |
| 12:47.06 | El_Salvador | As for particulars, we write the interface ourselves, but a lot of the base code comes from existing FOSS [Free and Open Source Software] projects. E-mail will be based on the TinyMail framework. Our browser is based on WebKit (the same stuff that Safari is using). |
| 12:47.07 | El_Salvador | :O |
| 12:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 12:51.13 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 12:55.56 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-207-208.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:56.10 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0F845.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:56.29 | rtyler | we really gotta do something about this boottime :P |
| 12:56.43 | xzcvczx | rtyler: its better than i thought it would be |
| 12:56.48 | rtyler | I could almost fit the entire Daft Punk song in 'Robot Rock' when I recorded a video of it booting |
| 12:57.08 | rtyler | xzcvczx: but it's booting from flash, it seems like it should be faster |
| 12:57.20 | rtyler | guess it's Linux + 266Mhz of arm love |
| 12:57.49 | xzcvczx | my old desktop 266 would never boot as fast as the moko |
| 12:58.03 | rtyler | your old desktop wasn't running off a flash disk was it? :) |
| 12:58.14 | xzcvczx | was running off something even faster |
| 12:58.21 | xzcvczx | a bigfoot |
| 12:58.25 | rtyler | Coaxial netboot? :P |
| 12:58.37 | rxr | e |
| 12:58.41 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 12:59.05 | rtyler | I'm incredibly bored waiting for this build to finish |
| 13:00.33 | Talpa | rtyler: me too |
| 13:00.53 | SpeedEvil | Have you considered finding Jesus? Valuable cash prizes if you find him! Challenging clues! |
| 13:01.08 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 13:01.22 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: I think I saw him selling cars down at that place on Market St., you seen it? "Jesus Chrysler" I think it's called :D |
| 13:01.37 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: why is he hiding |
| 13:01.53 | rtyler | xzcvczx: marketing ploy to get people to buy his book :D |
| 13:02.04 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 13:02.32 | Talpa | xzcvczx: the Roman police it looking for him |
| 13:02.36 | xzcvczx | haha |
| 13:02.39 | rtyler | I liked mine better :P |
| 13:03.23 | Talpa | rtyler: that lazy bastard, he did't even write his own book himself |
| 13:03.37 | ScaredyCat | holy ghost writer |
| 13:03.45 | rtyler | well played sir, well played |
| 13:06.11 | xzcvczx | how hard would it be to put gcc onto the phone? |
| 13:06.16 | Talpa | Is Jesus fighting for freedom of speech ? |
| 13:06.38 | rtyler | xzcvczx: I can't imagine it'd be too hard, but cross compiling will always be much faster |
| 13:06.51 | ScaredyCat | much much much |
| 13:08.17 | Linux_Galore | wonder if anyone has done a video of 2007.2 |
| 13:08.22 | xzcvczx | rtyler: yea i know but still would be convinient to have it on there |
| 13:08.27 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 13:08.37 | rtyler | Linux_Galore: I can probably make on after I reflash my Neo :P |
| 13:08.52 | Linux_Galore | rtyler: thanks before hand |
| 13:09.06 | rtyler | although, stacking the books so my laptop's camera points straight down will kind of suck >_< |
| 13:09.20 | Linux_Galore | GTA02* |
| 13:09.31 | rtyler | that's lots of finger twiddling |
| 13:09.48 | Linux_Galore | yeah, getting a bit sad hacking my N95 |
| 13:10.17 | *** join/#openmoko morpheus (n=morpheus@DSL01.83.171.177.188.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 13:14.35 | Talpa | Linux_Galore: by a GP2X and force it to run openmoko? |
| 13:14.40 | Talpa | buy |
| 13:17.00 | Linux_Galore | http://www.flickr.com/photos/xbeepx/1088888503/ |
| 13:17.13 | Linux_Galore | Talpa: I already have a GP2X |
| 13:18.02 | Linux_Galore | and a Zaurus 5600 |
| 13:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
| 13:18.25 | Linux_Galore | both running debian right now |
| 13:19.12 | *** part/#openmoko indro (i=indro@212.103.66.234) |
| 13:19.33 | Linux_Galore | I just need a phone and then I will have a complete Linux working enviroment |
| 13:19.49 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:20.10 | Linux_Galore | I was going to get a Moto Linux phone untill I heard about OM |
| 13:20.24 | SrRaven | you seem to have a good paying job |
| 13:20.44 | Linux_Galore | SrRaven: Im in marketing |
| 13:21.02 | Linux_Galore | I used to be in IT services, not much money in that |
| 13:21.03 | SrRaven | thats a yes |
| 13:21.37 | rtyler | Linux_Galore: are you around here often? |
| 13:22.40 | Linux_Galore | not really, I pop in and out but I leave the client logged in |
| 13:23.48 | Linux_Galore | Only reason Im on right now is Im downloading some podcasts for my iPod |
| 13:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 13:24.24 | rtyler | Linux_Galore: if you add the openmoko category feed from my stupid blog to your feed reader, I'm sure you'll be notified when the 2007.2 video is up ;) |
| 13:24.54 | xzcvczx | is anyone else here keen to have the ability to network the phone up to a windoze machine? |
| 13:25.17 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 13:25.44 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 13:26.25 | Linux_Galore | Ive got a perl script that scans flickr for openmoko images and tells me if there is a new one |
| 13:26.40 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: eat me |
| 13:26.51 | rtyler | *chomp* *chomp* |
| 13:26.51 | ScaredyCat | errm, no. |
| 13:27.16 | rtyler | xzcvczx: once I'm able to get things built for my Neo, I'll start working on a .NET/Mono based sync app |
| 13:27.32 | *** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 13:27.33 | Linux_Galore | xzcvczx: not exactly a big rush to work on making a completely open platform work with a closed one |
| 13:27.56 | ScaredyCat | it needs to be done... |
| 13:28.07 | rtyler | unfortunately yes |
| 13:28.19 | rtyler | does USB networking even exist on Windows? |
| 13:28.24 | Linux_Galore | need a Linux client too |
| 13:28.25 | ScaredyCat | rtyler: I'd wait until that desicion has been made (what wouldbe used) |
| 13:28.30 | xzcvczx | Linux_Galore: mostly for while i am at work where i only have windows machines and at home as my only linux box is in the other room and i only have a windows laptop so is more useful if i have full controll over the phone physical and networked |
| 13:28.41 | ScaredyCat | syncml is suggested, but nothing appears set in stone |
| 13:28.44 | xzcvczx | rtyler: yes |
| 13:28.49 | Linux_Galore | xzcvczx: I have Linux at work and home |
| 13:28.56 | xzcvczx | Linux_Galore: well i dont |
| 13:29.06 | Linux_Galore | xzcvczx: cry me a river |
| 13:29.14 | rtyler | ScaredyCat: I was going to write a little daemon that sits on top of the OpenMokoFramework |
| 13:29.20 | rtyler | Linux_Galore: don't sit around and flame plz kthx |
| 13:29.41 | ScaredyCat | surely that's 'kthxbai' |
| 13:29.47 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 13:30.03 | SrRaven | I dont use linux either but interested in openmoko since its start |
| 13:30.22 | jgm | Sounds like syncing is going to be something based on Funambol (think I read it from somewhere also http://www.funambol.com/partners/ gives a hint) |
| 13:30.25 | xzcvczx | SrRaven: well you will still probably need linux for flashing the phone at this stage |
| 13:30.40 | SrRaven | like id buy a neo1973 at the current state |
| 13:30.47 | SrRaven | id prolly never buy one,looks to cheap for me |
| 13:31.09 | xzcvczx | SrRaven: what you planning on using openmoko on? |
| 13:31.29 | SrRaven | probably the next mobile that will be able to use it |
| 13:31.32 | ScaredyCat | http://i0005.photobucket.com/albums/0005/icanhascheezburger/2007/7/15/12/128290020895277500phoolishcatu.jpg |
| 13:31.59 | Linux_Galore | SrRaven: people are more interested in paying for an open phone than how pretty it is |
| 13:32.09 | SrRaven | well I am superficial like that |
| 13:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 13:32.13 | Linux_Galore | SrRaven: if you want pretty get a locked iPhone |
| 13:32.23 | SrRaven | iphone is shit |
| 13:32.43 | rxr | SrRaven: why that ? |
| 13:32.47 | Linux_Galore | SrRaven: or get any phone, they are all locked |
| 13:32.48 | SrRaven | im more of the mda vario 2 type for looks |
| 13:33.01 | xzcvczx | i suppose i am very optimistic asking whether busybox vi has syntax highlighting? |
| 13:33.02 | SrRaven | rxr cant stand apple |
| 13:33.19 | SrRaven | overpriced shit |
| 13:33.21 | Markinoko | xzcvczx: haha |
| 13:33.52 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=Wally@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 13:33.52 | Linux_Galore | Ive figured out apples design method, remove all keys and edges and cover it with a shiny finnish |
| 13:33.53 | xzcvczx | Markinoko: dang it |
| 13:34.03 | Markinoko | xzcvczx: busybox vi may be as good as a solaris vi |
| 13:34.09 | Linux_Galore | the new iMac is a great example |
| 13:34.48 | Linux_Galore | heh |
| 13:35.19 | Linux_Galore | I actually like vim |
| 13:35.50 | xzcvczx | Linux_Galore: i am not stabbing it for usage/feature issues i am stabbing it for compile issues |
| 13:36.16 | raster | Linux_Galore: peolpe like shiny - bling bling |
| 13:36.17 | raster | :) |
| 13:36.18 | Linux_Galore | vim+bootcd+chroot=fixed system with corrupted linux kernel image |
| 13:37.23 | xzcvczx | i have got too use to nano unfortunately |
| 13:37.25 | Linux_Galore | diamonds* |
| 13:37.35 | Linux_Galore | there OM with bling |
| 13:38.28 | raster | bling bling |
| 13:38.51 | Linux_Galore | that will be 50k please |
| 13:39.18 | Linux_Galore | SpeedEvil: call it Bugs |
| 13:39.58 | Linux_Galore | Not sure about the brown theme for the OM though |
| 13:40.50 | Linux_Galore | I like blue/metalic grey |
| 13:41.33 | Linux_Galore | heh, do a LCARS theme for the OM, few thousand Trekie geeks will want one |
| 13:41.52 | rtyler | if I recall correctly, you make themes for OpenMoko; snap to it then |
| 13:42.09 | Linux_Galore | I need one first |
| 13:42.26 | rtyler | no you don't, run QEMU |
| 13:42.38 | rtyler | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 13:42.39 | rtyler | have fun |
| 13:42.50 | Linux_Galore | rtyler: QEMU doesnt show real perspective for artwork |
| 13:42.50 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 13:43.11 | Linux_Galore | also you need to see how the art and colour look "on the phone" |
| 13:43.39 | ScaredyCat | I think the more important thing here is that Linux_Galore knows that the star trek interface is called LCARS |
| 13:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 13:44.18 | Linux_Galore | ScaredyCat: no I know the LCARS theme mainly because the N800 has an optional UI called LCARS with sounds |
| 13:44.48 | ScaredyCat | yes, we believe you... |
| 13:44.49 | rtyler | convenient excuse ^_^ |
| 13:44.49 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 13:45.05 | *** part/#openmoko josch (n=josch@host158-117-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:45.18 | Linux_Galore | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwXBPjLdJnU |
| 13:45.29 | ScaredyCat | you just made that |
| 13:45.32 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 13:45.32 | Linux_Galore | LCARS theme on N770 ^^ |
| 13:46.14 | rtyler | omg nerdz |
| 13:46.30 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 13:46.35 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 13:46.50 | Linux_Galore | heh |
| 13:47.09 | *** join/#openmoko minime (n=minime@v26038.topnetworks.de) |
| 13:47.28 | Linux_Galore | blew me away when I saw that, also learnt LCARS is the name of the Star Trek layout when I did a google |
| 13:48.14 | ScaredyCat | ok, I have *not* just installed it to *not* try it |
| 13:50.42 | Linux_Galore | lol lcars iPhone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mafumN10Tm0 |
| 13:52.33 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-67-163-206-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 13:53.35 | Linux_Galore | putting LCARS on any phone with sound is like sticking a bib neon sign above your head with and arrow and the text NERD |
| 13:53.42 | Linux_Galore | big* |
| 13:53.52 | rtyler | so is mentioning it on IRC |
| 13:54.07 | Linux_Galore | I just find it funny |
| 13:54.49 | Dmitry_Platonov | http://www.google.com/trends?q=neo1973%2C+openmoko&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2007&sort=0 |
| 13:55.39 | rtyler | Dmitry_Platonov: more importantly: http://www.google.com/trends?q=neo1973%2C+openmoko%2C+iphone&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2007&sort=0 ;) |
| 13:56.19 | Linux_Galore | wow, russians are really into the OM |
| 13:56.58 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76_ (n=ufo76@host86-145-241-121.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:57.26 | Dmitry_Platonov | rtyler, seen that :-/ |
| 13:57.39 | Linux_Galore | Im out |
| 13:57.46 | Linux_Galore | of to bed, see ya all |
| 13:58.15 | Dmitry_Platonov | Linux_Galore, russians are into gadgets |
| 13:58.31 | *** join/#openmoko Talpa (n=talpa@85.218.131.141) |
| 13:59.00 | *** join/#openmoko shackan (n=frob@host67-89-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:59.42 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 14:00.56 | rtyler | anybody had their host machine completely fux0r when they connect the device? |
| 14:01.11 | rtyler | my Linux box just refuses to bring up /dev/ttyACM0 anymore |
| 14:01.18 | rtyler | makes accessing the console quite troublesome :P |
| 14:01.19 | *** join/#openmoko diego71 (n=luser@host-84-223-119-63.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 14:01.28 | SpeedEvil | modprobe cdc_acm |
| 14:01.47 | rtyler | ccnet% sudo modprobe cdc_acm |
| 14:01.47 | rtyler | ccnet% |
| 14:01.49 | rtyler | hrm |
| 14:02.03 | rtyler | ccnet% lsmod | grep cdccdc_acm 15904 0 usbcore 134280 7 cdc_acm,usb_storage,libusual,usbhid,ohci_hcd,ehci_hcdccnet% |
| 14:02.09 | rtyler | gack, screen fucked that up |
| 14:03.01 | rtyler | ccnet% lsmod | grep cdc |
| 14:03.02 | rtyler | cdc_acm 15904 0 |
| 14:03.02 | rtyler | usbcore 134280 7 cdc_acm,usb_storage,libusual,usbhid,ohci_hcd,ehci_hcd |
| 14:03.05 | rtyler | there we go |
| 14:03.07 | rtyler | ccnet% |
| 14:03.27 | SpeedEvil | tYou do know you need to boot with the button held down? |
| 14:03.37 | rtyler | yes yes, it goes into u-boot mod |
| 14:03.38 | rtyler | mode* |
| 14:03.50 | SpeedEvil | what does lsusb then show? |
| 14:04.12 | rtyler | it doesn't show anything other than the other USB devices, but four sets of this get logged into /var/log/messages: |
| 14:04.16 | rtyler | Aug 12 06:59:47 ccnet kernel: [116060.564000] usb 2-7: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 17 |
| 14:04.50 | SpeedEvil | it doesn't show the neo? |
| 14:04.58 | rtyler | nope |
| 14:05.01 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 14:05.22 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 14:05.26 | rtyler | the first couple times I flashed the device, I was able to from this computer, I'm not sure what's gone wrong with it |
| 14:05.37 | SpeedEvil | Stupid stuff first. |
| 14:05.55 | SpeedEvil | You are in fact sure you're plugging it into a working USB port, and the otehr end is plugged into the neo? |
| 14:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:06.17 | rtyler | yes yes, plugged into the same set of front USB port as my workng SD reader is :) |
| 14:06.24 | SpeedEvil | K. |
| 14:06.31 | Writchie | is your battery low by any chance - I've noticed USB gadget not working when battery is low |
| 14:06.44 | rtyler | Writchie: nah, battery shows full, and it's a 500ma port |
| 14:07.00 | SpeedEvil | Battery shows full in what? |
| 14:07.06 | rtyler | when I boot the neo |
| 14:07.07 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:07.28 | rtyler | huzzah, moko's built, that only took 3 hours >_> |
| 14:07.33 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 14:07.49 | rtyler | so, woohoo, let's get this working again so I can flash :D |
| 14:07.50 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 14:08.11 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 14:08.16 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: so Linux is recognizing *a* device, it's just not registering it as a cdc_acm device |
| 14:08.25 | SpeedEvil | what does lsusb show? |
| 14:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko SliMM (n=chatzill@89.137.226.12) |
| 14:09.12 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: http://pastebin.ca/654488 |
| 14:09.17 | DukeOfURL | Good morning. |
| 14:09.24 | rtyler | morning your highness |
| 14:09.28 | DukeOfURL | heh |
| 14:09.51 | Dmitry_Platonov | anybody seen htc touch interface? |
| 14:09.56 | SpeedEvil | that's not showing it then. |
| 14:10.11 | SliMM | how is the video player working? |
| 14:10.16 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484E6D0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:10.18 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: nope :/ |
| 14:10.20 | raster | not in real life |
| 14:10.21 | raster | but videos |
| 14:10.29 | SpeedEvil | SliMM: basically - primitively. |
| 14:10.33 | rtyler | "If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" |
| 14:10.34 | DukeOfURL | Will the Neo draw 500ma in charging mode, or will it draw more? Do we need to use a current limiting charger device? |
| 14:10.52 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: it will draw up to 500mA |
| 14:10.57 | SliMM | at 320*240 with sound, does it run at at least 24 fps? |
| 14:11.03 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:11.08 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 14:11.11 | SpeedEvil | Not with rotation. |
| 14:11.22 | SpeedEvil | It would need an optimised rotator to be written. |
| 14:11.32 | SpeedEvil | And for P2, this is not an issue at all. |
| 14:11.37 | DukeOfURL | I'm looking at my Motorola mini USB cigarette lighter adapter. I'm pretty sure the output is 5V. |
| 14:11.41 | SpeedEvil | With the faster CPU and harfware accel. |
| 14:11.59 | SliMM | you should take a look over the mpeg player at http://www.rockbox.org |
| 14:12.07 | SliMM | the gigabeat has similar processor |
| 14:12.19 | SliMM | and it works great rotated |
| 14:12.26 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 14:12.32 | SpeedEvil | Does the gigabeat have any video hardware? |
| 14:12.37 | DukeOfURL | Would the battery get too hot will an unlimited supply? |
| 14:12.38 | SliMM | none |
| 14:12.41 | raster | writing a rotated output handler isnt hard |
| 14:12.42 | SpeedEvil | And what MHz is the CPU? |
| 14:12.44 | raster | making it fast |
| 14:12.45 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: just read your new wiki page... The reason editing the environment by hand does not work well is not the missing variable, but that the CRC doesn't match anymore, which makes it ignore the whole environment |
| 14:12.52 | SliMM | about 300 |
| 14:12.57 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: no - it draws what it needs. |
| 14:13.06 | SliMM | i don't know if it's the same cpu, but it's arm |
| 14:13.15 | SpeedEvil | raster: no - but it requires per-codec tweaking. |
| 14:13.19 | SliMM | it's over 250 mhz |
| 14:13.21 | SpeedEvil | And for someone to do it. |
| 14:13.35 | raster | SpeedEvil: hmmm not that i can think of |
| 14:13.41 | raster | per yuv format - yes |
| 14:13.46 | SpeedEvil | And as this work will be essentially useless for P2, this is not going to be done by FIC. |
| 14:14.02 | raster | invariably a doced will produce a yuv image of some sort |
| 14:14.21 | raster | err |
| 14:14.26 | raster | codec will produce |
| 14:14.39 | raster | so u really need to do a yuv->rgb + rotator |
| 14:15.04 | Dmitry_Platonov | +scaler |
| 14:15.10 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: I can connect using minicom on my Mac, but my Linux box is the build machine, so I'm wondering if maybe the cdc_acm module just got fux0rd on the host somehow? |
| 14:15.17 | rtyler | since it certainly doesn't seem to be the device |
| 14:15.24 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: lsusb does not show the device |
| 14:15.30 | rtyler | yar |
| 14:15.38 | raster | Dmitry_Platonov: yeah - that too |
| 14:15.41 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: it will - even if the device driver doesn't pick it up. |
| 14:15.46 | raster | u will roll those into 2 convertor |
| 14:15.51 | rtyler | yikes |
| 14:15.59 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@gwfm4-3-0-240.802.cz) |
| 14:16.01 | rtyler | maybe usbcore is fucked? |
| 14:16.37 | raster | in this case u'd have a specific yv12->rgb565+90rot+scale convertor |
| 14:16.52 | SliMM | rockbox's mpegplayer is very optimized |
| 14:17.00 | SliMM | it works great with low resources |
| 14:17.07 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 14:17.45 | raster | but only mpeg |
| 14:17.52 | SliMM | how many bpp is neo's screen? |
| 14:17.53 | raster | things liek xine or mplayer handle tonnes fo codecs |
| 14:18.02 | raster | and in the logn run are more useful |
| 14:18.04 | raster | 16bpp |
| 14:18.20 | SliMM | raster: mpeg is a good place to start |
| 14:18.22 | SliMM | :P |
| 14:19.04 | SliMM | unfortunately, the mpeg player isn't codec-based yet |
| 14:19.13 | SliMM | so maybe that's why it works so well |
| 14:20.00 | ScaredyCat | cesarb: k, updating... |
| 14:20.05 | ScaredyCat | what's you rn ? |
| 14:20.26 | *** join/#openmoko ubuntu_ (n=chatzill@A749a.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 14:20.31 | ScaredyCat | s/you/your/ |
| 14:20.50 | SliMM | is the next neo going to have a better processor and some sort of graphics acceleration? |
| 14:20.54 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:20.57 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 14:20.57 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) |
| 14:21.12 | hhf423_ub | so, here I go. Some linux booted, downloaded dfu util and the images |
| 14:21.23 | SliMM | and also accelerometers, right? |
| 14:21.43 | hhf423_ub | and when I want to flash, I get @can not claim interface |
| 14:21.50 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@gwfm4-3-0-240.802.cz) |
| 14:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-198-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:21.55 | SpeedEvil | SliMM: yes |
| 14:22.31 | SliMM | i will turn it into a wii-like remote control for my lego mindsorms *smug* |
| 14:22.59 | hhf423_ub | I get "can not claim interface 2" |
| 14:25.28 | hhf423_ub | dfu --list gives me Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" |
| 14:26.25 | hhf423_ub | but there should be like a list of five |
| 14:27.29 | rxr | I think it listed the same for me |
| 14:27.32 | rxr | and flashing worked |
| 14:27.42 | rxr | I think the wiki documentation does not match the latest sources |
| 14:27.47 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: so no ideas? :/ |
| 14:28.41 | hhf423_ub | rxr: so you started flashing by pressing the two buttons to get into uboot and the start dfu util? |
| 14:29.45 | *** join/#openmoko yoyo_ (n=yoyo@nat.zegrze.maverick.com.pl) |
| 14:29.51 | yoyo_ | yellow |
| 14:29.58 | SliMM | after typing openmoko/flash.sh, i get thi message: |
| 14:29.59 | SliMM | Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - ,ake sure that they're in $PATH. |
| 14:30.09 | SliMM | what does this mean? |
| 14:30.19 | SliMM | this* |
| 14:30.27 | rtyler | it means you need to install those apps |
| 14:30.38 | SliMM | oh, great |
| 14:30.46 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: rn? |
| 14:31.01 | ScaredyCat | real name |
| 14:31.27 | ScaredyCat | but it's ok |
| 14:32.09 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: Cesar Barros (yeah, I use my real name as my nickname :D ) |
| 14:32.24 | ScaredyCat | weird ;) |
| 14:32.32 | rxr | hhf423_ub: yes |
| 14:32.48 | hhf423_ub | rxr: what does dfu show when you hook up your neo now? |
| 14:32.59 | rxr | hhf423_ub: it's booted into Linux anyway |
| 14:33.19 | hhf423_ub | ah |
| 14:33.45 | hhf423_ub | but if there is no list of alt shown, dfu can not flash to alt 3 no? |
| 14:33.52 | rxr | hhf423_ub: if it is vitally important for you I could boot it into u-boot ... |
| 14:34.13 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: in the wiki, it would be more useful to put my wiki username (CesarB) instead of the real name |
| 14:34.16 | hhf423_ub | rxr: well right now I have no idea whats wrong here |
| 14:34.21 | yoyo_ | iihaa fully control public bt and unpublic bt action from gui :) |
| 14:34.37 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 14:34.47 | hhf423_ub | rxr: so it would help, i d appreciate that |
| 14:35.16 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: the "discoveries" part, item 2, should also say something about the CRC ;-) |
| 14:35.19 | rtyler | it's the weekend, they might be resting ;) |
| 14:35.50 | hhf423_ub | some were on the CCC camp and are probably traveling now |
| 14:35.58 | rxr | hhf423_ub: /me rebooting |
| 14:36.09 | hhf423_ub | rxr: thanks |
| 14:36.12 | cesarb | rtyler: aren't they in some event? if so, it might not be because of being a weekend, but because the event finished and they are on a plane/resting |
| 14:36.22 | rtyler | Chaos Camp |
| 14:36.23 | ScaredyCat | better cesarb? |
| 14:37.02 | rxr | http://t2-project.org/ # dfu-util --list |
| 14:37.05 | rxr | dfu-util - (C) 2007 by OpenMoko Inc. |
| 14:37.05 | rxr | This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY |
| 14:37.05 | rxr | Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=13, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" |
| 14:38.00 | hhf423_ub | ok, my devnum is 0 but thats all the difference |
| 14:38.06 | xzcvczx | oh just so you know it looks like a patch will come in soon to dfu-util which will replace -a 3 with kernel and -a 5 with rootfs |
| 14:38.11 | xzcvczx | or seomthing like that |
| 14:38.27 | hhf423_ub | so how did you execute dfu util to flash a kernel? |
| 14:38.39 | ScaredyCat | about time too xzcvczx you lazy sod |
| 14:38.40 | rxr | hhf423_ub: like it was listed in the wiki |
| 14:39.03 | hhf423_ub | rxr: like ./dfu-util -a 3 -R -D ./uImage-2.6...blabla ? |
| 14:39.14 | rxr | well - I would have to open a browser to confirm |
| 14:39.22 | rxr | I do not want to confirm that magic numbers from the top of my head :-) |
| 14:39.32 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: lol not me i just googled the thing and i found a patch in someones people.openmoko dir that says its going to be a future patch |
| 14:39.46 | ScaredyCat | hhehe |
| 14:39.58 | hhf423_ub | rxr: thats verbatim from the web: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 14:40.00 | xzcvczx | well proposed patch |
| 14:40.07 | rxr | hhf423_ub: yes, like on that side |
| 14:40.15 | rxr | the dfu example printout differs there, right ?= |
| 14:40.23 | hhf423_ub | rxr: yes |
| 14:40.34 | rxr | yeah - I noticed too, but the flashing worked notheless |
| 14:40.44 | hhf423_ub | funny |
| 14:41.17 | rxr | not so funny is that apparently most decent SIM cards to not cooperate with the TI GSM chip ... |
| 14:41.34 | rxr | bug #666 |
| 14:42.45 | hhf423_ub | well, at this point I time I can not even worry about that... |
| 14:45.46 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host81-152-233-64.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:46.27 | hhf423_ub | ah |
| 14:46.34 | rtyler | GOD DAMNIT |
| 14:46.42 | hhf423_ub | the problem must be the "can not claim interface 2" |
| 14:47.04 | rtyler | I can't copy shit off the SD card without this error: http://pastebin.ca/654520 |
| 14:47.07 | rtyler | ARGH! |
| 14:47.33 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-192-223.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 14:47.45 | xzcvczx | rtyler: rip the ext2load exec off the neo onto a computer and run file ext2load |
| 14:48.14 | rtyler | xzcvczx: that's great in there, but I can't get the damn thing to connect properly to my Linux box as is :P |
| 14:48.27 | rtyler | isn't the ext2load in the u-boot silliness anyways? |
| 14:48.28 | hhf423_ub | hahaha, me not root... sudo does the trick |
| 14:48.49 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: following up from the LCARS link earlier... abuse the accelerometers to trigger "Whoooooooooooosh!" sounds for Star Wars fans... |
| 14:49.03 | xzcvczx | rtyler: not being run while your booted i wouldnt think |
| 14:49.17 | xzcvczx | ok ignore that |
| 14:49.23 | xzcvczx | unless your using a custom image |
| 14:49.52 | rtyler | I'm using one the one linked from the wiki from when you first have to put rootfs on the device |
| 14:50.29 | hhf423_ub | nowwww we re talkin |
| 14:50.37 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: There is much work on core applications to be done before that. |
| 14:50.44 | SpeedEvil | Light-sabre sounds, for example. |
| 14:51.05 | xzcvczx | rtyler: are you using it when booted? |
| 14:51.32 | rtyler | I'm using it in u-boot |
| 14:51.38 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 14:51.40 | xzcvczx | oh ok |
| 14:51.41 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 14:51.50 | xzcvczx | why are you trying to load it there? |
| 14:52.14 | rtyler | because I'm loading the rootfs, as well as uImage since dfu-util won't work for me |
| 14:52.21 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: oh, I wasn't implying it should go to the top of the priority list :D |
| 14:52.37 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I'm sure some fan will have that done without needing encouragement |
| 14:54.09 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 14:54.35 | rtyler | I'll try something different after I get in from a smoke, waiting for my images to rsync to a public site |
| 14:57.41 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelil (n=atg@pool-71-240-234-127.fred.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:58.06 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qc048.q.pppool.de) |
| 15:00.05 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-209-95.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:03.15 | hhf423_ub | so, all flashed. great |
| 15:04.01 | summatusmentis | just out of curiousity, I haven't been following much lately, what's the status of the software? |
| 15:05.04 | rtyler | mega awesome |
| 15:05.06 | rxr | far from usable ... |
| 15:06.30 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 15:06.51 | rxr | summatusmentis: if you want a portable xterm it's great - mega awesome mobile terminal emualtor :-) |
| 15:06.52 | summatusmentis | rtyler: of course it's mega awesome, this is openmoko we're talking about |
| 15:07.07 | summatusmentis | rxr: so even the GPE backend isn't usable really? |
| 15:07.14 | rxr | GPE ? |
| 15:07.22 | rxr | I saw no GPE in OpenMoko |
| 15:07.27 | summatusmentis | I assume that's what openmoko is using for X? |
| 15:07.39 | SpeedEvil | Basically. |
| 15:07.40 | rxr | yes, with crappy, incomplete custom widgets |
| 15:07.42 | summatusmentis | the pictures on flickr suggest it's gpe |
| 15:07.47 | rxr | where barely anthing works |
| 15:07.53 | SpeedEvil | It functions just fine as a small desktop linux box. |
| 15:08.00 | summatusmentis | I see |
| 15:08.03 | rxr | if you expect to make phonecalls wait some month, flash GPE or help coding ... |
| 15:08.04 | SpeedEvil | with all the peripherals working as you would expect. |
| 15:08.15 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 15:08.26 | SpeedEvil | The phone software is at the moment, minimal and buggy. |
| 15:08.31 | rxr | yeah - adjusting ALSA volume over ssh and initiating calls after manually starting the gsmd ... |
| 15:08.32 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@vnsecurity.net) |
| 15:08.46 | SpeedEvil | I can make calls using the dialer. |
| 15:08.54 | rxr | I could in the .1 version |
| 15:08.55 | summatusmentis | rxr: that's how _real_ users make calls :-) |
| 15:09.01 | rxr | in the .2 version I do not even get the PIN dialog ... |
| 15:09.08 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 15:09.26 | rxr | but to be honest I do not care, I'm right now working on my own EFL (enlightenment 17) based apps ... |
| 15:09.50 | summatusmentis | has there been a solution for finger based text entry yet? or is that planned for once the base apps are working? |
| 15:09.55 | rxr | summatusmentis: the hardware is mostly good, only that the TI chip does not accept most recent SIM cards |
| 15:09.59 | rxr | see bug #666 |
| 15:10.04 | hhf423_ub | now, how do I make it register on the GSM network? it does not ask for my PIN? |
| 15:10.06 | rxr | I hope FIC and TI get this fixed with some firmware update |
| 15:10.24 | rxr | hhf423_ub: in the .2 software it doesn't ask me for a pin |
| 15:10.29 | rxr | with the .1 software it did ... |
| 15:10.38 | rxr | hhf423_ub: also most images do not set the audio levels |
| 15:10.47 | hhf423_ub | ah so thats normal? |
| 15:10.57 | rxr | you have to either use the barely useful rxvt and a lens or ssh the load some useful audio levels |
| 15:10.59 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@vnsecurity.net) |
| 15:11.07 | hhf423_ub | so how can I tell the SIM my PIN so that it can register on the network? |
| 15:11.09 | rxr | and yes, I knwo this is just rediculous for this old project |
| 15:11.22 | rxr | hhf423_ub: look the wiki for manual using GSM |
| 15:11.27 | hhf423_ub | ok |
| 15:12.12 | rxr | hhf423_ub: note I'm not a FIC / OpenMoko person, I'm just a 2 day phone owner who is just starting to write an alternative sofware stack |
| 15:12.31 | summatusmentis | rxr: why an alternative stack? |
| 15:12.33 | rxr | as apparently the OpenMoko project is not really progressing on the software site ... |
| 15:12.43 | rxr | summatusmentis: because OpenMoko sucks from the bottom to the top ? |
| 15:12.45 | rxr | glibc on a phone ? |
| 15:12.52 | rxr | yet other custom Gtk+ widgets ? |
| 15:13.22 | summatusmentis | well, to be fair, there were a lot of issues at the early stages |
| 15:13.24 | rxr | and after over a year of drafting it's not even starting with sensible ALSA setups or even asking for the PIN in all images ? |
| 15:13.36 | rtyler | uploaded my recently built images FWIW: http://monkeypox.org/openmoko/images/ |
| 15:13.44 | rxr | summatusmentis: if they where sane they would at least have used GPE or so ... |
| 15:13.54 | rxr | but not reinvent the Whole Gtk+ mobile application game yet again ... |
| 15:14.10 | SpeedEvil | Fork off if you don't like it. |
| 15:14.15 | xzcvczx | rxr: when your project is walking before the end of the month you can start shitting on openmoko but i think you should just not be so quick to abuse it when you dont have a working alternative yet |
| 15:14.15 | hhf423_ub | rxr: do I have to go through the manual GSM stuff to make the phone register on the network? |
| 15:14.28 | rxr | hhf423_ub: depends on what images you flashed |
| 15:14.33 | hhf423_ub | right now I have a "?" next to the antenna symbol |
| 15:14.33 | rxr | on some the UI asked for a PIN |
| 15:14.41 | rxr | in the .2 images I was not asked and had to do it manually |
| 15:14.49 | rxr | of course in a pefect world the UI should ask you |
| 15:15.20 | rxr | xzcvczx: you speek with a 10 year Linux coder here |
| 15:15.49 | rxr | xzcvczx: I did and contributed to a lot of projects |
| 15:16.27 | hhf423_ub | hmm |
| 15:17.53 | rxr | SpeedEvil: btw. noticed how many people these days have a phone and are in this channel, and yet the software is far from a useable state ? |
| 15:19.45 | rxr | I find this strange at best |
| 15:19.45 | xzcvczx | rxr: i dont care how many years you have been coding linux for, and development will move faster if you contribute to openmoko not start your own project against openmoko |
| 15:19.49 | drath_ | rxr: i thought it was clear that P1 would by no means be in a useable state? |
| 15:20.18 | rxr | drath: I do not care that _I_ have no software, I'm not intested in it anyway |
| 15:20.39 | rxr | but there is something very wrong when a project that large, with some many people "involved" does not have much to show off |
| 15:20.39 | xzcvczx | rxr: heard the saying, dont reinvent the wheel? |
| 15:21.19 | xzcvczx | rxr: well most of them are due to experienced coders like yourself jumping ship to a competing project so they both get completed half as fast |
| 15:21.22 | rxr | well, all sorts of custom moko Gtk+ widgets clearly is reinventing the wheel |
| 15:21.59 | SpeedEvil | GTK on a 2.8" display is not pleasant. |
| 15:22.06 | rxr | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 15:22.11 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: i am tempted to try kde :P |
| 15:23.26 | rxr | but maybe the problem comes from the fact that there are so many thing done behind the communities back in "upcomming" secret announcements ... |
| 15:23.52 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-208-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:23.54 | drath | that secret stuff is mostly about upcoming hardware platforms, rather than openmoko itself, isn't it? |
| 15:24.03 | rxr | no idea |
| 15:24.05 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 15:24.21 | SpeedEvil | The secret stuff to some extent has already been a problem. |
| 15:24.30 | rxr | the last thing I read is "new famour graphic artist" to be comming and what not |
| 15:24.37 | SpeedEvil | For example, with GTA02, it's lead to not being able to wake on bluetooth. |
| 15:24.56 | SpeedEvil | Or at least that could potentially have been avoided. |
| 15:25.11 | rxr | btw. are the whole hardware schematics somewhere ? |
| 15:25.14 | mickeyl | sorry, but open source doesn't necessarily mean open company |
| 15:25.14 | SpeedEvil | No,. |
| 15:25.20 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 15:25.30 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@mieuh.bluebugs.org) |
| 15:25.35 | mickeyl | some things are strategic and marketing blurb |
| 15:25.50 | mickeyl | which is... unfortunately, but i have to admit it... necessary to keep funding going |
| 15:26.09 | SpeedEvil | Indeed, we all understand this, it's just disagreeing about the balance. Which is largely irrelevant, as it's managment driven anyway. |
| 15:26.14 | rxr | mickeyl: are there hopes bug #666 can be resolved by a future gsm firmware update ? |
| 15:26.21 | mickeyl | !ombug 666 |
| 15:26.22 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 666, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 15:26.22 | cdbot2 | * * steven.demetrius(AT)fiwwi.com: 3G SIM capability |
| 15:26.23 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666 |
| 15:26.24 | rxr | that is if you know anything about it |
| 15:26.26 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 15:26.54 | rxr | drath: /me too |
| 15:26.58 | mickeyl | sorry, i don't know anything about that. Best I can do is promise to pester the hardware team to comment on it |
| 15:27.07 | SpeedEvil | Good enough. |
| 15:27.30 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: isnt that issue with the 02 you mentioned hardware thought anyway? |
| 15:27.57 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: yes - however, if the requirement was put in early enough, the hardware would have been relatively easy to change. |
| 15:28.06 | SpeedEvil | (As I understand it). |
| 15:28.13 | SpeedEvil | At this stage - it's basically cast in stone. |
| 15:28.35 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^` (n=user@r201-221-45-12.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 15:29.59 | *** join/#openmoko thomasgruebler (n=thomasgr@85-124-167-249.work.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 15:30.10 | mickeyl | Rene, you obviously overestimate the amount of people that have been working on the project. |
| 15:30.14 | *** join/#openmoko daja77 (n=daja77@daja.magolin.org) |
| 15:30.27 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: do you happen to know if TI is still unwilling to allow users to reflash? |
| 15:30.29 | rtyler | mickeyl: you haven't had any problems getting Linux to bloody recognize the device? |
| 15:30.38 | mickeyl | and obviously underestimate the amount of internal restructuring and problems the coreteam has faced. |
| 15:30.43 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: Try another system. |
| 15:30.43 | xzcvczx | rtyler: does it show up in lsusb? |
| 15:30.45 | mickeyl | but anyways, feel free to come up with something own |
| 15:30.53 | rtyler | xzcvczx: of course not >_< |
| 15:31.00 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: occasionally I've found some USB devices don't like some computers. |
| 15:31.01 | mickeyl | i guess that means we no longer need to talk about doing some work together on it? |
| 15:31.06 | xzcvczx | rtyler: tried a different usb port? |
| 15:31.14 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: I wish I had more Linux boxen around, but my Mac and Linux box are it :/ |
| 15:31.14 | rxr | mickeyl: from this channel list and the mailing list there are many people to count |
| 15:31.18 | rtyler | xzcvczx: yep, no dice |
| 15:31.27 | jserv2 | rxr: we're trying to fix the bug with the help from TI though. |
| 15:31.36 | mickeyl | yes, and those many people had their phones for like... 10 days |
| 15:31.36 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: windows will find it. |
| 15:31.37 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: it worked once upon a time, I did the first couple of flashes from this machine |
| 15:31.39 | mickeyl | big deal |
| 15:31.48 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: it will ask for a driver CD |
| 15:31.54 | SpeedEvil | (or whatever it does nowadays) |
| 15:32.00 | rtyler | what will ask for a driver CD? |
| 15:32.03 | xzcvczx | rtyler: does other usb stuff work on that machine |
| 15:32.08 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: windows |
| 15:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 15:32.31 | rtyler | xzcvczx: yep, that's how I've gotten stuff onto the SD card ;) |
| 15:32.48 | xzcvczx | just joking mickeyl |
| 15:32.50 | xzcvczx | :P |
| 15:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54890416.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:33.20 | happycube | lol |
| 15:33.39 | *** mode/#openmoko [+o mickeyl] by ChanServ |
| 15:33.47 | xzcvczx | oh shit |
| 15:34.02 | mickeyl | heh. takes more than that |
| 15:34.04 | rxr | mickeyl: you now, I even was around at the computex, but harald did not wanted to meet with us although FIC desperatedly wanted to ... |
| 15:34.09 | SpeedEvil | Well - they are wasting their time on random stuff. The blog posts have made that _Very_ clear. |
| 15:34.15 | ScaredyCat | did someone get scummvm compiled yet? |
| 15:34.36 | SpeedEvil | I mean - ordering computers and sorting out cabling - madness. |
| 15:34.40 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: yes. |
| 15:34.50 | ScaredyCat | can I have a copy :) |
| 15:35.01 | mickeyl | rxr: that's not correct information. We just arrived after 13h with lots of jetlag and weren't fancy to go to a business meeting like zombies |
| 15:35.01 | rtyler | heh |
| 15:35.06 | SpeedEvil | What is the 'web' thing based on? |
| 15:35.07 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: That person should send me bb-file and patches today. |
| 15:35.13 | *** mode/#openmoko [-o mickeyl] by mickeyl |
| 15:35.20 | ScaredyCat | ahhh goodie good |
| 15:35.51 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: unfortunately he has been partying till late last night, so it might take a while... ;) |
| 15:35.56 | rxr | mickeyl: and ? |
| 15:35.58 | ScaredyCat | gah! |
| 15:36.04 | ScaredyCat | slacker! |
| 15:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 15:36.29 | mickeyl | rxr: nothing and. that's the story. |
| 15:36.41 | mickeyl | i didn't know what you were into at that time anyways |
| 15:36.50 | rxr | we had over 4 days or so to meet in .tw ... |
| 15:37.16 | rxr | mickeyl: nothing I had other business, but the FIC people appeared to really wanted help from more people it was their idea to meet ... |
| 15:37.18 | mickeyl | you can't imagine my schedule. i was the first time in .tw then |
| 15:37.29 | rxr | mickeyl: I likewise ... |
| 15:38.42 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelingGeek (n=atg@pool-71-240-234-127.fred.east.verizon.net) |
| 15:39.24 | calamous_ | Hey was DFU utils ever fixed to accomidate other endains? |
| 15:39.38 | mickeyl | so a meeting that didn't happen for whatsoever reasons is the reason you are bashing the project? sounds a bit strange to me |
| 15:39.46 | rtyler | mickeyl: just watched some videos, any idea on a if/when directfb or whatever you were playing with would come in? |
| 15:40.03 | rtyler | calamous_: we don't support other endian tribes last I heard ;) |
| 15:40.06 | SpeedEvil | The proper QVGA patch would be nice. |
| 15:40.21 | mickeyl | rtyler: it's there. you can install it, but there isn't any specific OM work going on there based on it. |
| 15:40.28 | rtyler | gotcha |
| 15:40.36 | calamous_ | rtyler: so it only works on little endian? |
| 15:40.48 | mickeyl | we are going to introduce non-GTK+ stuff into the platform somewhere early next year |
| 15:40.50 | SpeedEvil | Then 'all' that remains to be done is to write an optimal rotator. |
| 15:40.52 | rtyler | from my experiences, I've read it doesn't, haven't tried it on say, a PPC box |
| 15:40.56 | calamous_ | rtyler: can't we go through the source and fix it? |
| 15:41.01 | rtyler | calamous_: have fun :D |
| 15:43.19 | rxr | mickeyl: I do not bash the project |
| 15:43.29 | cesarb | rtyler: I think I saw it being changed by harald to fix some endianess issues some time ago |
| 15:43.35 | cesarb | rtyler: on the commitlog list |
| 15:43.36 | rxr | mickeyl: in fact I help quite some new users as good as I could the last days |
| 15:43.37 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 15:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 15:44.33 | mickeyl | rxr: ok, sorry then, i just seen lines like "and after over a year of drafting it's not even starting with sensible ALSA setups or even asking for the PIN in all images ?" and " btw. noticed how many people these days have a phone and are in this channel, and yet the software is far from a useable state ?" |
| 15:44.42 | mickeyl | some people would think that counts as bashing |
| 15:44.52 | mickeyl | *shrug* |
| 15:45.08 | rtyler | I still likes you :) |
| 15:45.33 | rxr | mickeyl: it is not that shipping images that ask for the PIN and loads some mixer values should be too much of a problem |
| 15:45.42 | rtyler | HOLY SHIT |
| 15:45.48 | rtyler | Linux box recognizes it now |
| 15:46.05 | xzcvczx | rtyler: what fixed it? |
| 15:46.16 | SpeedEvil | rxr: expecting this to be release quality software is not realistic. |
| 15:46.18 | xzcvczx | rtyler: oh btw did you check it was plugged in :P |
| 15:46.24 | SpeedEvil | rxr: It's not, it's pre-alpha. |
| 15:46.25 | rtyler | xzcvczx: yes i did -_- |
| 15:46.35 | rxr | mickeyl: I could also say "that's how a linux phone should be operated like", but probably defect stuff should be pointed out |
| 15:46.38 | xzcvczx | rtyler: lol what got it working? |
| 15:46.39 | rtyler | xzcvczx: plugging it into a different set of ports on a different USB controller -_- |
| 15:46.46 | xzcvczx | rtyler: lol |
| 15:46.51 | xzcvczx | rtyler: nice |
| 15:47.07 | rtyler | [- - -] <-- ports I *was* trying ports that worked -> [- -] |
| 15:47.48 | mickeyl | *sigh* so you don't think we know about these problems? |
| 15:47.49 | xzcvczx | lol i doubt its linus's fault..... the ports working at all? |
| 15:47.56 | rtyler | mickeyl: has anybody started working on getting the OpenMokoFramework to speak SyncML? |
| 15:48.05 | rtyler | xzcvczx: yeah, those ports were working fine |
| 15:48.15 | rtyler | I think the usb subsystem just got all gunked up on that bus |
| 15:48.16 | mickeyl | rtyler: funambol hopefully, but i'm not up to date as to their status |
| 15:48.37 | rxr | mickeyl: this are "one-liner" problems we talk about that make the alpha-quality software even harder to use ... |
| 15:48.38 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: Global Locate - any progress? |
| 15:48.39 | rtyler | are they going to be a little more open source? I saw registration forms all over their site for access content? |
| 15:49.22 | rtyler | as long as the device speaks proper SyncML i'll be happy, and I'll start hacking on a sync desktop app ^_^ |
| 15:49.49 | rxr | mickeyl: I got some stuff todo, when you need one more hand you probably know where you can find me ... |
| 15:50.13 | rtyler | xzcvczx: I've never been so excited to see USB jibberish in syslog before :P |
| 15:50.14 | mickeyl | we didn't exactly have a good start, but yes, lets talk at some other point of time |
| 15:50.21 | rtyler | two days of absolute frustration |
| 15:50.25 | rxr | oh and mickeyl: why was glibc choose as C library ? |
| 15:50.34 | rtyler | to spite you! muharharhar |
| 15:50.46 | rxr | mickeyl: we as we both or openmoko :-) ? |
| 15:50.55 | mickeyl | rxr: all :D |
| 15:50.58 | rxr | lol |
| 15:51.16 | mickeyl | rxr: as for glibc, because we wanted to keep the amount of variables at a low minimum |
| 15:51.29 | mickeyl | it's not as if anything is set in stone at this point of time |
| 15:51.34 | mickeyl | this is an iterative process |
| 15:51.52 | rxr | variables as in "when porting desktop software to the phone platform" I guess ? |
| 15:51.57 | Writchie | FWIW I think glibc was the right choice - at this point |
| 15:52.02 | mickeyl | yes. |
| 15:52.08 | mickeyl | there are different opinions when it comes to a phone |
| 15:52.13 | mickeyl | see the GMAE |
| 15:52.20 | rtyler | certainly makes sense with Gtk+ imgo |
| 15:52.22 | rtyler | imho too |
| 15:52.32 | SpeedEvil | glibc has a large memory and other footprint for many phones. However, this is not an especially small phone. The laptop I'm typing on has the same RAM. |
| 15:52.57 | SpeedEvil | And I do not (often) expect to have 34 firefox tabs open on the phone. |
| 15:53.08 | rxr | yeah - but with 20%++ saved RAM you can do more interesting things :-) |
| 15:53.10 | rxr | whatever |
| 15:53.38 | rtyler | are you kidding me? I'm going to use my phone as a mobile statistics analysis platform ;) |
| 15:53.39 | Writchie | you may never get to such things without glibc |
| 15:53.56 | rxr | Writchie: even KDE compiles with uClibC .-) |
| 15:54.47 | Writchie | no way doubts the uClibC or whatever could be made to work, the point is we have enough memory and glibc lets many more apps work with minimum mods |
| 15:54.54 | Writchie | thats the whole point behind the VGA |
| 15:55.11 | SpeedEvil | IMO - VGA is 1/10th of the battle. |
| 15:55.23 | SpeedEvil | Yes, you can run an app with unusably small widgets. |
| 15:55.27 | SpeedEvil | (for a phone). |
| 15:56.20 | Writchie | I think the point is that you get to sort of working very fast. Yes, you have to rework for size, but the speed at which you get something WORKING encourages continued work on the opimal solution. |
| 15:56.31 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 15:56.31 | Writchie | Anyway, that's what I've noticed. |
| 15:56.52 | Writchie | The footprint does make be puke |
| 15:57.13 | Writchie | but memory is cheap and Moore's law still reigns |
| 15:57.15 | mickeyl | some even think debian compatibility is a must |
| 15:57.20 | *** join/#openmoko lekter2 (n=e-topic@62.87.50.2) |
| 15:57.23 | mickeyl | which kind of rules uClibC out as well |
| 15:57.47 | rxr | "debian compatibility" ? |
| 15:58.07 | Writchie | I would like to see a better framebuffer level and switching between X and straight framebuffer |
| 15:58.20 | rtyler | Ctrl+Alt+F2? :P |
| 15:58.20 | Writchie | s/level/layer |
| 15:59.12 | Writchie | the handset/pda mode switching needs a better think |
| 15:59.48 | Writchie | the architecture should support a phone with built-in PDA or a PDA with built-in phone |
| 15:59.55 | Writchie | two somewhat different philosophies |
| 16:00.03 | Writchie | with pervasive implications |
| 16:00.31 | rtyler | great, quilt 0.35 and 0.36 are different enough to break MokoMakefile |
| 16:00.42 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.215.1.203) |
| 16:02.54 | ScaredyCat | Kensan: who was it btw, perhaps I can help encourage |
| 16:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-203-212.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:07.02 | Kensan | ScaredyCat: it's JadeFalcon. I wrote him a text-message, but I believe he is still recovering ;) |
| 16:07.26 | ScaredyCat | can't hack the pace eh? :P |
| 16:08.39 | Writchie | i'm definitely in the phone with PDA camp |
| 16:09.03 | Writchie | coexistance is possible |
| 16:09.38 | cesarb | Writchie: especially it being very easy to reflash the device with a completely different distribution ;-) |
| 16:10.01 | Writchie | reflashing, unfortunately, can't overcome hardware screwups |
| 16:10.08 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@stjhnbsu84w-14216645094.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) |
| 16:10.25 | cesarb | Writchie: so the PDA-with-phone people like me can have their crazy memory-gobbling glibc-plush-bash-and-coreutils, and the phone-with-PDA can chose ulibc-and-busybox |
| 16:10.31 | Kensan | Writchie: since in the openmoko architecture you control the application processor, the thought of pda with phone capabilities is probably predominating. |
| 16:10.40 | hhf423_ub | whooo, at+cpin OK |
| 16:11.25 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@stjhnbsu84w-14216645094.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) |
| 16:11.26 | Writchie | the phone with PDA is definitely more prevalent, but I think this is mainly because of lack of knowledge is the GSM space. |
| 16:11.30 | *** part/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:11.33 | Writchie | which BTW is not an insult |
| 16:12.25 | Writchie | s/is/in/ |
| 16:13.03 | Kensan | Writchie: I agree. I was more speaking of how I see the mindset of most (community) devs. |
| 16:13.04 | Writchie | dumb bot |
| 16:13.20 | Writchie | yes - the mindset often gets in the way |
| 16:13.32 | hhf423 | hmm, should "autoregister with network" work? |
| 16:13.46 | *** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@38.80-203-113.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:14.05 | Writchie | good engineering process should not be forsaken just because its open source |
| 16:14.16 | cesarb | Writchie: I think more than lack of GSM knowledge, it's the lack of a full-featured gsmd which is problematic |
| 16:14.31 | Writchie | gsmd at this point is just a concept demo |
| 16:14.35 | cesarb | Writchie: since with a full-featured gsmd people would simply use it |
| 16:15.06 | Writchie | yes, the handset (or MT) layer really needs to be done well |
| 16:15.16 | Writchie | and the MMI can be left to whatever |
| 16:16.15 | Writchie | i think much of the disappoint at this point comes from not being able to use the device as a basic phone. |
| 16:16.26 | Writchie | which hurt's creditbility |
| 16:16.33 | Writchie | when you show the device |
| 16:16.48 | Dmitry_Platonov | gsm+audio |
| 16:16.54 | Writchie | unfortunately, most people are completely unable to visualize |
| 16:17.09 | Writchie | gest, gsm+audio + basic mobility |
| 16:17.33 | mickeyl | so you think we should have postponed selling the hardware even more? |
| 16:17.36 | mickeyl | phew |
| 16:17.44 | Writchie | no- |
| 16:17.55 | mickeyl | aha. so? |
| 16:17.57 | Writchie | i fully agree with letting the hardware go |
| 16:17.58 | mickeyl | i fail to see options now |
| 16:18.17 | Writchie | there are always options |
| 16:18.28 | Dmitry_Platonov | mickeyl, just put more effort into gsmd/dialer/sms |
| 16:18.52 | rtyler | heh, yeah mickeyl, we in IRC have a better handle on how you should be spending your time ;) |
| 16:18.59 | Writchie | the project needs a focus on gsmd |
| 16:19.07 | Writchie | there are capable people willing to help |
| 16:19.08 | rxr | yes, the basis things, dialer (pim) and audio settings shoudl be done right |
| 16:19.23 | rxr | and the images only release whit this basic functions tested |
| 16:19.33 | mickeyl | well |
| 16:19.37 | mickeyl | we didn't release any images |
| 16:19.39 | cesarb | rxr: no, the images should be automatic daily builds |
| 16:19.42 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 16:19.43 | mickeyl | so i fail to see the point of this complaint |
| 16:19.49 | Writchie | i think we need a quick and dirty dbus layer for the phone |
| 16:19.52 | cesarb | rxr: since it's the best way to find bugs |
| 16:19.57 | rxr | ok - whatever |
| 16:19.58 | Writchie | to buy time to get gsmd right |
| 16:20.12 | rxr | then at least the basic one-liner bugs should be addressed |
| 16:20.19 | mickeyl | you and your one-liner bugs |
| 16:20.28 | rxr | right now most people get an image that does not set audio, does not ask the pim or doesn#t start gsmd at all |
| 16:20.28 | mickeyl | where are your bugtracker attachements? |
| 16:20.39 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M9387.m.pppool.de) |
| 16:20.39 | rtyler | anybod had dfu-util time out? http://pastebin.ca/654600 |
| 16:20.42 | mickeyl | the p1 snapshot release image IS NOT READY |
| 16:20.46 | Dmitry_Platonov | mickeyl, complaint is that gsmd does not see much improvements, and unlikely to be in good shape in october. |
| 16:21.05 | rxr | mickeyl: note that I didn't start this time :-) |
| 16:21.09 | mickeyl | right. |
| 16:21.23 | xzcvczx | rtyler: the phone is still on? |
| 16:21.25 | mickeyl | l8er. i don't want my good mood today to be destroyed even more |
| 16:21.28 | rtyler | yes |
| 16:21.32 | *** part/#openmoko mickeyl (i=mickey@srv043.dedi23.de) |
| 16:21.37 | rxr | mickeyl: I just want to say "making sure that just pin entering and dialing works and audio elvels" in most images would already be a big step |
| 16:21.46 | xzcvczx | learn when to shut up you lot |
| 16:22.04 | rxr | hm |
| 16:22.54 | hhf423 | I have a "?" next to the GSM antenna symbol, anyone knows what that means? |
| 16:23.03 | xzcvczx | rtyler: your usb stack seems fucked |
| 16:23.07 | rtyler | hhf423: you're screwed |
| 16:23.12 | rtyler | xzcvczx: no kidding >_< |
| 16:23.15 | xzcvczx | hhf423: means that the gui isnt connected to the network |
| 16:23.17 | hhf423 | and ATE1 does not get ERROR, but gets OK |
| 16:23.21 | Dmitry_Platonov | at least, he listen. kudos to him. |
| 16:23.22 | rtyler | those damned default ubuntu kernel images |
| 16:23.23 | xzcvczx | rtyler: you have rebooted i assume |
| 16:23.44 | rtyler | xzcvczx: moving around USB ports again and replugging seems to have fixed it, ROFL |
| 16:24.04 | xzcvczx | Dmitry_Platonov: yeah but he doesnt come here just to get why doesnt this work/that work/this is the most important thing i am sure they have an internal roadmap that they are working as hard as they can to stick to |
| 16:24.12 | hhf423 | and my PIN does not get acceppted I think, AT+CPIN="mypin" does get ERROR |
| 16:24.32 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 16:24.32 | xzcvczx | does your sim have a pin? |
| 16:24.35 | rxr | hhf423: if your PIN is not accepted you might face bug #666 |
| 16:24.41 | xzcvczx | well your network |
| 16:25.07 | xzcvczx | well whatever part the pin is used for as we dont have pins here |
| 16:25.30 | Dmitry_Platonov | xzcvczx, if they made "internal" roadmap not so internal, there would be not so many complaints. |
| 16:25.48 | Writchie | yes |
| 16:25.55 | xzcvczx | Dmitry_Platonov: also if he only gets shit when he comes in here hes not going to listen any more |
| 16:26.01 | rtyler | heh |
| 16:26.02 | blindcoder | mwester: me! me! me! I promise not to complain (much) :) |
| 16:26.14 | mwester | :) I'm first in line! |
| 16:26.34 | Writchie | the noise level is very high because of expectations that got of hand |
| 16:26.36 | Dmitry_Platonov | xzcvczx, what he gets here is not "shit", it's community feedback |
| 16:26.39 | blindcoder | although I admit to not even having ordered a P1 due to announced lack of functionalityf |
| 16:26.58 | Writchie | 80% of input is crying about AT&T SIMs |
| 16:27.13 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@bb121-7-50-43.singnet.com.sg) |
| 16:27.15 | borg_ | aaaaah |
| 16:27.17 | borg_ | /data/openmoko/openmoko/tmp/work/fic-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/libgsmd-0.1+svnrNOT IMPLEMENTED-r18/ |
| 16:27.18 | Writchie | this is a developer preview |
| 16:27.21 | rxr | yes, this SIM compatibility issue is a bummer ... |
| 16:27.23 | borg_ | cant someone remove the blank here? |
| 16:27.26 | mwester | That was an unexpected problem, and a very serious issue. |
| 16:27.30 | Writchie | so go get t-mobile |
| 16:27.33 | hhf423 | ah, cool, I can dial |
| 16:27.34 | borg_ | it isnt compiling because of this for 5 days now... |
| 16:27.34 | Writchie | and do some development |
| 16:27.37 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8070.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:27.37 | xzcvczx | <Dmitry_Platonov> mickeyl, just put more effort into gsmd/dialer/sms <----- i am sure its not his choice what he is spending time on. |
| 16:27.53 | hhf423 | I can dial even though AT+CPIN returned ERROR |
| 16:28.03 | rtyler | that's also not even the level of the project he's really responsible for |
| 16:28.06 | rtyler | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Mickey |
| 16:28.14 | rtyler | don't be such bullies next time guys |
| 16:28.19 | Dmitry_Platonov | <mickeyl> i fail to see options now |
| 16:28.49 | Dmitry_Platonov | it's an option |
| 16:31.24 | rtyler | omg omg openmoko might be finally building on my Mac |
| 16:31.27 | Writchie | anybody know where the source for the steppingstone boot code is located? |
| 16:31.53 | SpeedEvil | samsung. |
| 16:31.59 | SpeedEvil | It's in ROM. |
| 16:32.15 | Writchie | in ROM loads the first page of flash - the source for the first page of flash |
| 16:32.49 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 16:32.49 | rtyler | GAK, Python errors! |
| 16:32.53 | SpeedEvil | It's u-boot isn't it? |
| 16:33.02 | Writchie | I don't think so. |
| 16:33.16 | Writchie | there is a 4K loader that loads u-boot |
| 16:33.24 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 16:33.25 | Writchie | the PM wakeup has to be done there |
| 16:33.29 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 16:33.40 | Writchie | i think I see a way to make the BT wakeup work |
| 16:33.52 | SpeedEvil | Impossible AIUI. |
| 16:33.56 | Writchie | and divide the PM and boot functions |
| 16:34.01 | SpeedEvil | There is no interrupt line connected at the moment. |
| 16:34.07 | Writchie | don't need one |
| 16:34.10 | Writchie | just need a PIO |
| 16:34.13 | yoyo_ | Writchie: I'm working on it |
| 16:34.15 | SpeedEvil | Or PIO. |
| 16:34.27 | Writchie | wake up every second and look around |
| 16:34.29 | SpeedEvil | The 'wakeup' line is not brought out to the chip. |
| 16:34.44 | Writchie | yoyo_: working on the boot code? |
| 16:35.03 | yoyo_ | <Writchie> i think I see a way to make the BT wakeup work |
| 16:35.28 | SpeedEvil | Rather. |
| 16:35.43 | Writchie | on GT01 there are two lines brought out |
| 16:35.47 | SpeedEvil | The 'wakeup' line is not brought out through the connector of the bluetooth device onto the main PCB. |
| 16:35.47 | Writchie | to PIO |
| 16:36.15 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: however, it's been stated that these are bluetooth/wifi coexistance of some sort. Not wakeup. |
| 16:36.18 | rxr | cesarb: this does not appear to be region based, I think it hasa to do with the generation of SIM card |
| 16:36.29 | Writchie | not in GT01 |
| 16:36.36 | rxr | cesarb: if your SIM is older than 6m than it will probably work |
| 16:36.37 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: As waking up from bluetooth wasn't thought to be interesting for GTA02. |
| 16:36.55 | Writchie | on GT02 it depends on whether one of these line makes it to a GPIO |
| 16:36.57 | rxr | SpeedEvil: can you stop ranting :-) |
| 16:37.14 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: it's been stated that it's not. (for GTA02) |
| 16:37.33 | cesarb | rxr: well, IIRC I have my Razr for more than a year, so the SIM is older than 6 months... |
| 16:37.49 | SpeedEvil | I'm not ranting. I'm responding to Writchies points, with paraphrases from mails from Harald to the hardware list. |
| 16:37.52 | rxr | cesarb: probably that SIM shoudl work then |
| 16:38.06 | rxr | cesarb: but I do not garuanteee, I'm an extern newcommer here ... |
| 16:38.12 | rxr | (no TI inssurance company :-) |
| 16:38.21 | rxr | SpeedEvil: that was a joke .-) |
| 16:39.03 | Writchie | harold was going to look into it for GTA02 - but its doubtful |
| 16:39.11 | Writchie | but GTA01 is doable |
| 16:39.16 | Writchie | and probably GTA02 |
| 16:39.30 | Writchie | s/GTA02/GTA03 |
| 16:39.32 | *** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@ip5457b8f8.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 16:40.15 | Writchie | IMHO GTA03 will need both BT Class 1 and WiFi and new TI chip to support UMA |
| 16:40.49 | rxr | UMA == what ? |
| 16:41.12 | Writchie | unlicensed mobile access, running GSM through the Internet |
| 16:41.18 | Writchie | UMA works today |
| 16:41.20 | cesarb | rxr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlicensed_Mobile_Access |
| 16:41.25 | rxr | ah |
| 16:41.36 | cesarb | rxr: The Wiki Has All The Answers :D |
| 16:41.59 | rxr | yeah, tried wiki.openmoko.org and id did not had UMA .-) |
| 16:42.00 | Writchie | unfortunately, many of the answers are wrong ;) |
| 16:42.04 | rxr | lol |
| 16:42.06 | thomasg__ | oh, UMA soudns very interesting |
| 16:42.14 | xkr47 | anyone knows how the chaos camp is/was going ? |
| 16:42.22 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:42.25 | PBeck | re |
| 16:42.28 | xkr47 | bi |
| 16:42.31 | Writchie | UMA benefits both the operators and the users |
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| 16:44.06 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@stjhnbsu84w-14216645094.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) |
| 16:44.34 | Writchie | yoyo_: are you working on the PM? |
| 16:44.49 | yoyo_ | what is PM? |
| 16:44.53 | SpeedEvil | P |
| 16:44.56 | Writchie | power management - wakeup |
| 16:44.57 | SpeedEvil | woer managment. |
| 16:45.33 | yoyo_ | Writchie: I'm working on a UI manager (high level) not low level |
| 16:46.04 | Writchie | OK tnx |
| 16:46.22 | yoyo_ | wake up on BT sux |
| 16:46.33 | Writchie | how? |
| 16:46.41 | Writchie | generally - or on NEO |
| 16:47.00 | xkr47 | heh.. paranoid moko phone went nutz waking up on every bt request :) |
| 16:47.27 | yoyo_ | Writchie: on the planet in many stupid people which don't even now what is a bluetooth |
| 16:47.57 | Writchie | true - but how does that make BT wakeup suck |
| 16:48.05 | yoyo_ | Writchie: and the send everything to everything |
| 16:48.20 | Writchie | you don't have wakeup from them |
| 16:48.21 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 16:48.28 | Writchie | you only wake up from your devices |
| 16:48.35 | Writchie | if you implement it right |
| 16:48.42 | cesarb | Writchie: you can't know which device it is before you wake up... |
| 16:48.48 | Writchie | of course you can |
| 16:48.55 | yoyo_ | Writchie: there is a possibility to get some junk |
| 16:49.10 | *** join/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
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| 16:49.31 | cesarb | Writchie: can the BT chip filter so you will only wake up on a page scan from a list of approved devices? |
| 16:49.41 | Writchie | yes |
| 16:49.49 | cesarb | Writchie: cool |
| 16:50.38 | Writchie | bluecore4 is about the 7th generation BT chip |
| 16:51.22 | Writchie | 12Mhz mode is too much power. |
| 16:51.26 | cesarb | Writchie: ah, but is it possible to do that filtering while using HCI-USB (which is what the neo uses IIRC)? |
| 16:51.45 | cesarb | Writchie: or does the filtering need bluecore's proprietary mode? |
| 16:51.50 | orospakr | Hi! Has anyone successfully paid for GTA01 with an Amex card? |
| 16:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@p548BFB7C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:52.26 | Writchie | you need one of the proprietary commands, IIRC |
| 16:52.39 | Writchie | not really proprietary |
| 16:52.47 | Writchie | just not vanilla HCI |
| 16:52.53 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@bb121-7-50-43.singnet.com.sg) |
| 16:52.54 | Writchie | vendor specific is more correct |
| 16:53.37 | Writchie | if you don't have a least one wakeup line available, then you have to bring-up the USB host |
| 16:53.45 | Writchie | which will consume power |
| 16:53.54 | rtyler | I read somewhere that the phones are running at 200Mhz and there was a u-boot console command to change this to 266? |
| 16:54.04 | yoyo_ | quizz: C language. how to init a array of a structs in a struct? |
| 16:54.32 | Writchie | init to what? |
| 16:54.55 | cesarb | Writchie: a vendor-specific command is less annoying than having to switch to a completely different communication mode ;-) |
| 16:55.18 | cesarb | yoyo_: just use the correct nesting of {} |
| 16:56.02 | cesarb | yoyo_: with C99, you can even use named structure fields in the initializer, which is way more readable (the linux kernel does it all the time) |
| 16:56.41 | cesarb | (the linux kernel did it even before C99, using a slightly different GCC extension) |
| 16:58.00 | cesarb | rtyler: wasn't the slower speed in P0? |
| 16:58.44 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-192-45.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:58.51 | SpeedEvil | 200 was mandated as the early debug board did not work at 266 |
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| 16:58.54 | ScaredyCat | whoooaaaaa |
| 16:58.59 | ScaredyCat | monster storm |
| 17:00.14 | rtyler | cesarb: not sure |
| 17:02.44 | yoyo_ | I have struct with have a array of objects I need to init it again biger |
| 17:03.23 | *** part/#openmoko phlintphour (n=phlintph@70-101-190-205.dsl2.mon.ny.frontiernet.net) |
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| 17:04.06 | *** join/#openmoko shackan (n=frob@host119-16-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:04.48 | rtyler | linked lists FTW |
| 17:04.55 | *** join/#openmoko juco2 (n=vickeryj@cpe-076-182-044-240.nc.res.rr.com) |
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| 17:11.50 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@p548BFB7C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:12.01 | cesarb | yoyo_: if you need to resize the array, either use the trick of having it at the end of the struct (with 0 elements, or with 1 elements if you want to follow the old stardards), allocate the struct as its sizeof plus the size of the array, and use realloc later to resize it, or use no trick at all and allocate the array with malloc (so you can realloc it later) |
| 17:12.11 | cesarb | yoyo_: but that's sort of OT for this channel |
| 17:14.46 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu_ (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 17:21.41 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: I'm no longer convinced that wakeup from BT via USB is not reasible. |
| 17:22.06 | Writchie | s/reasible/feasible |
| 17:24.06 | *** join/#openmoko mellon (n=mellon@lam.fugue.com) |
| 17:26.08 | yoyo_ | see a cinema time |
| 17:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko Husare_ (n=AD@stgt-590e4026.pool.einsundeins.de) |
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| 17:44.18 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@201.32.148.171) |
| 17:45.36 | orzo | is libgtkstylus documented anywhere? |
| 17:46.21 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: you mean basically by micro-wakeups, and rapid polling? |
| 17:46.31 | SpeedEvil | That'd be useful for many other things. |
| 17:47.07 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: basically yes. I'm looking at splitting the bootstrap into wakeup and coldboot sections |
| 17:47.23 | Writchie | and it looks like we may be able to detect a resume from the USB hardware |
| 17:47.28 | Writchie | at the asm level |
| 17:47.34 | Writchie | before really waking up the cpu |
| 17:47.47 | Writchie | s/cpu/linux |
| 17:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-192-45.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 17:48.00 | Writchie | we have 4K and 2 32bit regs to work with |
| 17:48.17 | Writchie | polling resolution will be only 1 second |
| 17:48.25 | Writchie | because of the funky RTC |
| 17:49.01 | Writchie | power off is really suspend |
| 17:49.21 | Writchie | a warm start is when to two 32 bit regs are zero |
| 17:49.40 | Writchie | we need part 1 and part 2 wakeup code. |
| 17:49.56 | Writchie | part 1 in the stepping stone |
| 17:50.05 | Writchie | part 2 in RAM |
| 17:50.16 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-192-223.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:50.34 | Writchie | we can almost doulble the memory by using another NAND block for cold boot code |
| 17:50.57 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 17:50.59 | Writchie | and overlay the image loaded by the CPU ROM |
| 17:51.30 | anrp | D:? |
| 17:51.36 | anrp | what are you trying to do? |
| 17:51.54 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 17:52.48 | Writchie | anrp: are you asking me? |
| 17:53.28 | anrp | yeah |
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| 17:53.59 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 17:54.01 | Writchie | trying to get rational sleep, wake, wakeup, to support BT and GSM |
| 17:54.27 | Writchie | want battery to last maybe 2 days in a BT wakeable mode |
| 17:54.47 | Writchie | at least need to wake up from BT in order to do what any BT capable phone is able to do. |
| 17:54.48 | anrp | rational? |
| 17:55.03 | SpeedEvil | It can wakeup on GSM AIUI already. |
| 17:55.06 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-192-223.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:55.07 | SpeedEvil | (in principle) |
| 17:55.08 | Writchie | consume under 25ma and we wakeupable |
| 17:55.16 | Writchie | yes i hink GSM is probably OK |
| 17:55.52 | SpeedEvil | How fast is 'normal' resume from suspend-RAM? |
| 17:56.11 | Kensan | Writchie: did you see http://www.pkblogs.com/orzlab/2007/05/openmoko-steppingstone-code.html |
| 17:56.12 | Writchie | don't know but I think its gots lots of work |
| 17:56.50 | Writchie | Kensan: thanks |
| 17:57.05 | Writchie | do you know what encoding? |
| 17:57.19 | Kensan | Writchie: maybe it's worth joining #orzlab |
| 17:57.39 | Kensan | utf-8 |
| 17:57.45 | SpeedEvil | I don't know how #orzlab? |
| 17:57.50 | SpeedEvil | #orzlab? |
| 17:58.05 | Jiten | is that chinese? doesn't look like japanese :/ |
| 17:58.20 | Kensan | it's chinese afaik. |
| 17:58.28 | Writchie | its showing ? for me, let me load chinese support |
| 17:58.47 | mjr | chinese apparently |
| 17:59.40 | Kensan | Writchie: the page mentions #orzlab here on freenode. Maybe you can ask around there |
| 17:59.59 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 18:00.06 | Writchie | we are on the verge of mainland knockoffs being better than the real thing ;) |
| 18:00.19 | mmazur | :) |
| 18:01.07 | Kensan | Writchie: it seems that jserv is part of that team. |
| 18:01.13 | SpeedEvil | At some point in the next decades, if transport doesn't get harder, wages hasve to equalise. |
| 18:01.14 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:01.23 | SpeedEvil | http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pkblogs.com%2Forzlab%2F2007%2F05%2Fopenmoko-steppingstone-code.html&langpair=zh%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 |
| 18:01.47 | Writchie | they are equalizing, factor workers are up to $0.60/hour |
| 18:02.03 | SpeedEvil | I think it is not difficult to transplant, So pegged guarantee simulator can be used, so she decided OpenMoko/S3C2410 play! |
| 18:02.39 | mmazur | LG built some lcd factories or something in Poland hoping for cheap labor. Well, they misscalculated. |
| 18:03.14 | Writchie | I love translated chinese |
| 18:03.14 | mmazur | EU qeualizes wages inside EU. And EU's expanding. |
| 18:03.31 | SpeedEvil | There is a big delta across the EU. |
| 18:03.31 | Kensan | Writchie: it's funny with other languages too *heh* |
| 18:03.33 | Writchie | machine translation is actually better than most translators ;) |
| 18:03.34 | SpeedEvil | Still. |
| 18:03.51 | SpeedEvil | You can sort-of understand what he's talking about. |
| 18:04.10 | SpeedEvil | After several passes through the text. |
| 18:04.31 | Writchie | its actually easy to understand if you have worked with many chinese engineers before |
| 18:05.31 | Kensan | Writchie: talk to jserv2. I also read on the ML that he is being hired to do gsm bits. |
| 18:06.35 | Writchie | yes - i think its another week or two before he starts |
| 18:06.43 | Writchie | but there is a lot of stuff on the plate |
| 18:07.49 | Kensan | Writchie: well try their channel, etc. jserv2 was around here a couple hours ago I think. |
| 18:07.53 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 18:08.08 | Writchie | which channel? |
| 18:08.15 | Writchie | orzlab? |
| 18:08.26 | Kensan | Writchie: the one mentioned on the site, yes. |
| 18:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 18:25.57 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 18:25.57 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 18:26.43 | daMaestro | so, i've still not been able to build om2007.2 |
| 18:26.51 | daMaestro | http://dev.damaestro.us/log.do_compile.4497 |
| 18:27.03 | daMaestro | any ideas? |
| 18:30.48 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:32.04 | rmoravcik | daMaestro: try this patch http://pastebin.ca/654717 |
| 18:32.30 | daMaestro | testing now |
| 18:32.47 | rmoravcik | daMaestro: i had the same problem |
| 18:33.02 | ewon | evening |
| 18:33.05 | daMaestro | from the error i could assume this is the issue |
| 18:33.16 | daMaestro | what about the "declared and not used" issues? |
| 18:33.25 | *** join/#openmoko balthamaisteri (n=balthama@statip-80-95-136-152.kopteri.net) |
| 18:34.23 | rmoravcik | daMaestro: this problem was reported to oe bugzilla http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2708 |
| 18:34.54 | daMaestro | thanks. |
| 18:34.55 | rmoravcik | daMaestro: i'm using fedora 7 too |
| 18:35.00 | daMaestro | i need to get on all of the trackers |
| 18:35.15 | daMaestro | rmoravcik, i have packages for dfu-util and qemu-1973 |
| 18:35.24 | daMaestro | qemu-neo1973* |
| 18:35.34 | daMaestro | i'm still working out what to do about a "buildsys" package |
| 18:35.37 | daMaestro | want the srpms? |
| 18:35.46 | daMaestro | i've not yet submitted them |
| 18:36.16 | daMaestro | and if you have ideas about what to do about packages for the build sys... that would be sweet |
| 18:36.36 | daMaestro | i was thinking about just porting over the makefile commands... well exposing them as global commands |
| 18:36.41 | daMaestro | like openmoko-prime |
| 18:36.44 | daMaestro | like openmoko-build |
| 18:36.53 | daMaestro | but, yeah |
| 18:37.54 | daMaestro | grrr, rmoravcik how/where can i apply this patch |
| 18:37.59 | daMaestro | i don't see the source exploded anywhere |
| 18:38.45 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@berligate.hmw-consulting.de) |
| 18:38.53 | rmoravcik | sources are extracted under tmp/work/fic-gta01-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/gtk+-2.10.14-r3/gtk+-2.10.14/... |
| 18:41.15 | daMaestro | ah, i figured that would be cleaned |
| 18:41.17 | daMaestro | thanks. |
| 18:44.41 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:45.35 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: USB host is showing wakeup enabled |
| 18:47.12 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
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| 18:47.32 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@ool-18b9456b.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:49.26 | daMaestro | rmoravcik, ok... it is actually building |
| 18:49.59 | daMaestro | rmoravcik, http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/x86_64/dfu-util-2573.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/x86_64/qemu-neo1973-2588.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm |
| 18:50.18 | daMaestro | rmoravcik, instructions on how to update are in the spec, if you know rpm specs at all |
| 18:50.31 | rmoravcik | daMaestro: thanks |
| 18:51.04 | daMaestro | rmoravcik, sure. once i figure out what to do about a buildsys package those will be yum'able |
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| 18:53.01 | hhf423 | wooot, I did something and the phone asked me for the PIN and now is attached to the network. no idea how I did that |
| 18:54.06 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: ? |
| 18:54.32 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: Keeping the USB alive is quite expensive. |
| 18:54.42 | Writchie | don't need to keep it alive |
| 18:54.54 | SpeedEvil | How not? |
| 18:55.20 | SpeedEvil | If it's able to wakeup the CPU, the USB controller has to be on. |
| 18:55.35 | Writchie | should be able to disconnect the USB when going into suspend |
| 18:55.50 | SpeedEvil | Yes, in which case it won't wake. |
| 18:55.54 | Writchie | may be able to just check the OHCI registers during the peek |
| 18:56.08 | Writchie | the wakeup state on the PINS should come from the BT module |
| 18:56.32 | SpeedEvil | But it was stated that teh pins from the module are not the wakeup pins. |
| 18:56.39 | *** join/#openmoko jay50 (n=jay50@216.221.76.242) |
| 18:56.44 | Writchie | no D+ and D- |
| 18:56.46 | SpeedEvil | They are BT/wifi coexistance pins. |
| 18:57.26 | SpeedEvil | Keeping the host controller on is quite expensive - don't you have to basically have the entire chip powered on - admittedly with the CPU in idle mode. |
| 18:57.38 | SpeedEvil | with the USB PLL going at 48MHz, ... |
| 18:57.42 | Writchie | the OHCI is not really on, in the suspend state |
| 18:58.01 | rushforth | rmoravcik: your patch for gtk+ works here for me too :) |
| 18:58.08 | SpeedEvil | You mean there is some sort of interrupt over the D+ or D- pins, that can wake? |
| 18:58.37 | Writchie | there is a standard wakeup from suspend over the normal USB |
| 18:58.47 | SpeedEvil | Right - is it in fact implemented. |
| 18:59.06 | *** join/#openmoko mellon (n=mellon@lam.fugue.com) |
| 18:59.09 | SpeedEvil | I don't recall anything about that from the datasheet. |
| 18:59.10 | Writchie | i'm not sure if implemented or if the whole state machine of the controller has to running to detect the wakeup request |
| 18:59.28 | Writchie | what datasheet? it just says one OHCI controller? |
| 18:59.33 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 18:59.40 | Writchie | unlesss you have something different |
| 18:59.50 | SpeedEvil | yeah - I mean, it doesn't mention it as a wake source anywhere |
| 19:00.12 | SpeedEvil | It would be under 'what can wake the CPU from various modes' table. |
| 19:00.21 | Writchie | it's part of the OHCI spec. |
| 19:00.34 | Writchie | For sure, we cannot directly wake up the CPU |
| 19:01.09 | Writchie | but if we can detect the inband wakeup request after a 1 second poll wakeup, then we're good to go |
| 19:01.57 | Writchie | we would wakeup on RTC alarm every second. |
| 19:01.58 | Writchie | take a peek and go back to sleep |
| 19:01.59 | SpeedEvil | Does the poll request remain active till you answer it - on the USB side? |
| 19:01.59 | Writchie | unless usb wakeup |
| 19:02.02 | SpeedEvil | And does the bluetooth module actually support this. |
| 19:02.12 | Writchie | i'm looking into it now, IIRC its a static handshake |
| 19:02.21 | SpeedEvil | Would be nice. |
| 19:02.22 | Writchie | the BT module can support thi |
| 19:02.32 | Writchie | s/thi/this |
| 19:02.36 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 19:03.17 | Writchie | this is why I'm looking for the steppingstone code, because I have to test this from that level |
| 19:03.23 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 19:03.42 | SpeedEvil | Being able to twiddle the ROM would be nice. |
| 19:03.45 | SpeedEvil | 48K. |
| 19:03.54 | Writchie | i think there is no hope of that |
| 19:03.55 | SpeedEvil | But committing to a mask run is _slightly_ expensive. |
| 19:04.02 | Writchie | but the 4K will work |
| 19:04.38 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 19:04.39 | Writchie | on power up or wakeup the CPU loads the 4K from first block on the NAND and runs it |
| 19:04.47 | SpeedEvil | Yeah, I know. |
| 19:04.54 | Writchie | that enough |
| 19:05.12 | SpeedEvil | It'd be nice to have some RAM. |
| 19:05.25 | Writchie | it runs from RAM so you have it |
| 19:05.26 | SpeedEvil | But, probably not absolutely required. |
| 19:05.38 | Writchie | there are also two words for state |
| 19:05.41 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right - I thought this was running from locked-down cache. |
| 19:05.57 | Writchie | the SDRAM is still in auto-refresh at this point |
| 19:06.08 | Writchie | we want to keep it that way if we're not really waking up |
| 19:06.13 | SpeedEvil | Yeah, |
| 19:06.17 | SpeedEvil | Less fragile. |
| 19:06.53 | *** join/#openmoko lekter2 (n=e-topic@212-73-60-142.red-acceso.airtel.net) |
| 19:08.16 | Writchie | i'm hoping that if the linux drive is reporting wakeup enabled, that the low level bits in the OHCI controller are what they need to be. |
| 19:09.07 | SpeedEvil | It'd be on the powerdown status bits page. |
| 19:09.14 | SpeedEvil | Now, where did I put that datasheet. |
| 19:10.25 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 19:11.18 | *** join/#openmoko stapel (n=stapel@d54C61E21.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:11.39 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:11.58 | stapel | whoow.. this channel is crowded.. man!! |
| 19:12.07 | rtyler | with awesome people |
| 19:12.16 | ScaredyCat | ...//.../....... |
| 19:12.34 | hp_ | good one :) |
| 19:12.56 | SpeedEvil | The first page of the clock and power managment page says that everything is turned off but the RTC. |
| 19:13.47 | Writchie | but what does turned off mean. |
| 19:13.56 | Writchie | there is some state |
| 19:14.07 | rtyler | the 'on' bit is set to 0? :P |
| 19:14.32 | Writchie | off but holding state transitions to on with some state different than reset |
| 19:14.57 | Writchie | its possible if not likely the USB controller is reset on wakeup |
| 19:15.02 | Writchie | even that is not fatal |
| 19:15.25 | Writchie | we just need to be able to test if resume is being signalled before we start up the real resume |
| 19:15.42 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 19:16.29 | Writchie | s/resume/wakeup |
| 19:17.01 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 19:17.13 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 19:19.10 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: bad news, looks like resume is a pulse |
| 19:19.18 | SpeedEvil | How long? |
| 19:19.21 | Writchie | 15ms |
| 19:19.40 | SpeedEvil | I dunno if the GPS RTC can interrupt :) |
| 19:19.51 | *** join/#openmoko henla464_ (n=henla464@c-5863e455.019-357-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:19.56 | Writchie | yes, but only on second boundaries |
| 19:20.33 | SpeedEvil | GPS, not P* RTC Anyway - not really practical. |
| 19:20.36 | SpeedEvil | On a related topic. |
| 19:20.49 | SpeedEvil | How accurately can the P* RTC be read? Is it just second? |
| 19:21.13 | Writchie | i think its seconds |
| 19:21.26 | Writchie | it counts the 32768 clock |
| 19:21.39 | Writchie | i don't think you can read the counter |
| 19:21.39 | SpeedEvil | It's not possible to read the clock phase? |
| 19:21.42 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 19:21.44 | SpeedEvil | Oh well. |
| 19:22.18 | SpeedEvil | Would have been nice for the GPS. |
| 19:22.37 | Writchie | i don't like the RTC |
| 19:22.38 | daMaestro | grrr git-native-1.5.2.3-r4 still fails to build |
| 19:22.52 | SpeedEvil | Being able to read the clock to within 1/6th of a ms or so would simplify intermittent reads. |
| 19:22.56 | Writchie | who needs that crap in the hardware while taking away the basics |
| 19:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko diego71 (n=luser@host-84-223-119-63.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:23.26 | Writchie | i mean the RTC on the 2410 |
| 19:24.15 | SpeedEvil | I was really meaning the RTC on the PMU. I need to have anohter look at that. |
| 19:24.17 | Writchie | solve y2K in the hardware but take away the RTC counter - reason to kill marketing |
| 19:24.24 | Writchie | ah |
| 19:24.32 | Writchie | that should still be alive |
| 19:25.44 | Writchie | i wonder if we could just run the code in the steppingstone as another LP state? |
| 19:26.46 | Writchie | ultra slow mode |
| 19:27.14 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@84.165.104.191) |
| 19:27.58 | SpeedEvil | That may not be a win. |
| 19:28.12 | SpeedEvil | LP mode is much more expensive clock for clock. |
| 19:28.19 | SpeedEvil | However, it may come up faster. |
| 19:28.21 | Writchie | why? no SDRAM, no peripheral clocks |
| 19:28.34 | Writchie | LP mode more expensive that what |
| 19:28.36 | SpeedEvil | The CPU core. |
| 19:28.50 | Writchie | the CPU core with clocks off should be modest |
| 19:28.57 | Writchie | and a function of freq |
| 19:28.58 | SpeedEvil | Clock for clock - the 266Mhz mode is much cheaper than 12Mhz. |
| 19:29.23 | Writchie | doesn't sound right? |
| 19:29.31 | Writchie | is this based on measurement |
| 19:29.38 | SpeedEvil | No, based on the datasheet. |
| 19:30.48 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 19:31.05 | Writchie | it shows 33mW in 12Mhz |
| 19:31.11 | Writchie | with busses running |
| 19:31.25 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 19:31.33 | SpeedEvil | 266/12 = 22 |
| 19:31.38 | SpeedEvil | 22*33=726mW |
| 19:31.47 | SpeedEvil | which is quite a bit more. |
| 19:31.53 | SpeedEvil | more than reality. |
| 19:32.13 | Writchie | I could live with 33mW |
| 19:32.16 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo76@host81-153-253-61.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:32.17 | SpeedEvil | How things change without busses is another question. |
| 19:32.19 | Writchie | plus GSM and BT |
| 19:33.31 | Writchie | hopefully GTA03 will get things right - OFF-MODE is the ideal |
| 19:34.37 | Writchie | the 12mhz running in steppingstone mode could be something like a bios ACPI |
| 19:34.52 | Writchie | concerned with wakeup |
| 19:35.28 | *** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@ip5457b8f8.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 19:35.30 | *** join/#openmoko emdel__ (n=emdel@host249-217-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:35.33 | Writchie | we also need to monitor battery once in a while and start up the system in order to shut it down completely when battery goes south of critical |
| 19:35.37 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:35.52 | Writchie | this is tricky with li-ion |
| 19:36.32 | SpeedEvil | Not really. |
| 19:36.42 | Writchie | the knee can be pretty sharp |
| 19:37.12 | Writchie | you need to be sure you have enough to bring it up completely and then shut it down completely |
| 19:38.32 | SpeedEvil | The knee isn't really that sharp. |
| 19:38.36 | daMaestro | rmoravcik, is git-native failing for you also? |
| 19:38.37 | Writchie | might be better to kill the power to the devices in case the startup doesn't have enough power to succeed. |
| 19:38.39 | *** join/#openmoko diego71 (n=luser@host-84-223-119-63.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:38.47 | SpeedEvil | You've got several minutes after the knee. |
| 19:38.57 | Writchie | the knee varies with device and life |
| 19:39.00 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 19:39.12 | Writchie | minutes @ 310ma? |
| 19:39.15 | SpeedEvil | But, if you're polling every second, it's not really an issue. |
| 19:39.23 | SpeedEvil | hangon, I've got a graph |
| 19:39.43 | SpeedEvil | not to hand. |
| 19:40.05 | SpeedEvil | It is several minutes though. But if you are polling every second, you have to be really stupid for this to sneak up on you :) |
| 19:40.23 | Writchie | agreed - if we can last 2 minutes it will work |
| 19:40.46 | SpeedEvil | I'm planning on a fairly advanced battery monitoring thingy - doing impedance spectroscopy to work out the resistance of the battery, and determine its condition. |
| 19:40.49 | Writchie | but i think you trade total power if you set the point too high |
| 19:41.03 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 19:41.13 | Writchie | would be nice, but true monitoring need current in and out plus temp |
| 19:41.20 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 19:41.34 | SpeedEvil | There are some ways round that, just using voltage. |
| 19:42.04 | Writchie | i don't think the R(int) is constant |
| 19:42.19 | SpeedEvil | No, it's not quite. |
| 19:42.27 | SpeedEvil | But it varys in relatively predictable ways. |
| 19:42.38 | Writchie | things are probably better when the USB power is not supplied |
| 19:42.41 | hhf423 | if the "task bar" or what ever the top bar on the Neo is called, dies on me, can I resurrect it? |
| 19:42.46 | Writchie | s/better/more predicable/ |
| 19:43.26 | SpeedEvil | hhf423: not without ssh AIUI |
| 19:43.29 | Writchie | the problem with not monitoring current is not knowing the true state of the battery during typical plug in/ unplug/ etc. |
| 19:43.37 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: You don't care. |
| 19:43.41 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:43.44 | rmoravcik | daMaestro: no |
| 19:44.12 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: voltage is a _really_ good proxy for charge-state - once you add in temperature and estimated discharge, and last known impedance at full charge. |
| 19:44.32 | daMaestro | rmoravcik, do you know how i can kill the git-native task and make it run again? |
| 19:45.16 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: I think voltage alone will get you maybe within 20% |
| 19:45.25 | SpeedEvil | If you have a decent estimate of current at any point. |
| 19:45.33 | Writchie | that's the problem |
| 19:46.24 | SpeedEvil | For the suspend case, you know - pretty much - the current though. |
| 19:46.32 | Writchie | yeah |
| 19:46.45 | Writchie | but what's left to start with |
| 19:46.55 | Writchie | estimates might be fairly good |
| 19:46.57 | SpeedEvil | The current only gets important when you discharge fast. Otherwise the voltage is a good measure. |
| 19:47.01 | Writchie | until we factor in the radios |
| 19:47.02 | *** join/#openmoko PMT (n=rich@c-68-39-249-165.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:47.11 | SpeedEvil | After several minutes 'resting' from being on. |
| 19:48.24 | Writchie | when operating, we at 0.3C |
| 19:49.05 | Writchie | but you're right, we are probably there for a couple of minutes. |
| 19:49.41 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@static-87-79-68-60.netcologne.de) |
| 19:49.44 | Writchie | and the voltage when we go into standby from there can be compared to a profile |
| 19:49.58 | Writchie | to estamate mAhr's remaining |
| 19:50.22 | Writchie | actually, this crap belongs in the battery anyway |
| 19:50.51 | Writchie | it's probably there but we can't get at it |
| 19:51.15 | SpeedEvil | No, we can't. |
| 19:51.25 | SpeedEvil | It's - AIUI - a fairly dumb battery. |
| 19:51.26 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 19:51.36 | SpeedEvil | It's got a thermistor, and an internal low-voltage protection chip. |
| 19:51.39 | SpeedEvil | that's it. |
| 19:51.56 | Writchie | bare minimum |
| 19:52.06 | SpeedEvil | (found out about the low-voltage protection today) |
| 19:52.17 | Writchie | but the protection chips these days have integrated fuel guage |
| 19:52.28 | SpeedEvil | Not the bottom end. |
| 19:52.34 | Writchie | playing with the third wire I see |
| 19:52.44 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 19:52.50 | *** part/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-168-38.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:53.00 | SpeedEvil | Ran the phone down all the way to see what the voltage hit. |
| 19:53.07 | SpeedEvil | disconnected the battery, and it read 0. |
| 19:53.15 | Writchie | that's good |
| 19:53.28 | Writchie | if it goes below 2.5V its pretty much toast |
| 19:53.37 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 19:53.59 | Writchie | it must also have current protections |
| 19:54.13 | Writchie | it looks like a nokia standard battery |
| 19:54.34 | Writchie | but it doesn't respond to nokia hardware |
| 19:54.39 | *** join/#openmoko matthew22 (n=matthew@adsl-147-183-226.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:55.32 | Writchie | have you measured how long to re-charge to 4.1V |
| 19:55.49 | SpeedEvil | Some 3h IIRC, fully, with it off. |
| 19:55.56 | SpeedEvil | with the phone on - rather |
| 19:56.01 | Stephmw | ljp: mine got bored of it fairly quickly |
| 19:56.06 | Writchie | should be 20hr with phone off |
| 19:56.09 | Stephmw | ljp: she realised there wasn't anything to catch |
| 19:56.18 | matthew22 | am I the only person on the planet worried about battery life? |
| 19:56.19 | aloril | matthew22: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1, SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully these links answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:56.33 | ljp | all 3 of mine just love it. even the 11 year old one |
| 19:56.42 | SpeedEvil | We've just been talking about it for the last few mins. |
| 19:56.54 | matthew22 | hah, good |
| 19:57.01 | matthew22 | there is nothing about it on the wiki and that's disturbing |
| 19:57.08 | SpeedEvil | Yes there is. |
| 19:57.10 | Writchie | lots |
| 19:57.14 | SpeedEvil | search on 'power managment' |
| 19:57.16 | matthew22 | for a device that's trying to do absolutely everything under the sun.. |
| 19:57.24 | SpeedEvil | An extensive page. |
| 19:58.53 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8070.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:59.13 | Writchie | see the article on upgrading your flashlight with a high power laser diode from a DVD writer - then your cat will notice |
| 19:59.48 | matthew22 | will the neo charge while the computer the usb is hooked into is turned off? |
| 19:59.51 | Writchie | and you will too - with the one good eye you have left |
| 19:59.57 | SpeedEvil | matt: slowly. |
| 20:00.17 | matthew22 | so it charges faster when the computer is on? |
| 20:00.22 | SpeedEvil | mat: unplug USB, open case, remove battery, wait 10s, replace battery. |
| 20:00.23 | *** join/#openmoko noon (n=noon@87.178.113.222) |
| 20:00.35 | Stephmw | ewon: easy enough |
| 20:00.36 | noon | hello |
| 20:00.39 | SpeedEvil | plug into USB. |
| 20:00.39 | thomasg__ | concerning laserpointers, look at this: http://www.eblogx.de/flashvideo_6977_laser-pointer.html |
| 20:00.40 | Stephmw | ewon: remove the IR filter |
| 20:00.45 | *** join/#openmoko togs (n=kayon@124-168-208-90.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 20:00.49 | SpeedEvil | Then it will charge slowly. |
| 20:00.50 | Stephmw | ewon: be ready to fry your eyeballs with 150mW+ |
| 20:01.03 | ewon | Stephmw: only needs to project a normal spot at 18m |
| 20:01.20 | noon | SpeedEvil: can the usb charging be disabled? |
| 20:01.22 | SpeedEvil | leave 1h or so, then boot it, and have it connected to a computer port which will regognise it. |
| 20:01.27 | SpeedEvil | noon: why? |
| 20:01.33 | ewon | the thing is it has be be invisible to the naked eye but still visible on a webcam |
| 20:01.43 | Stephmw | ewon: that's still dangerous |
| 20:01.47 | SpeedEvil | ewon: they are readily available |
| 20:01.53 | SpeedEvil | google IR laser pointer |
| 20:02.12 | noon | because i don't want to geht it charged when i connect it to my notbook |
| 20:02.17 | ewon | SpeedEvil: will do |
| 20:02.27 | doc|home | just out of interest, why does the stylus even come with all that stuff? :) |
| 20:03.02 | ljp | to play with cats |
| 20:03.04 | noon | SpeedEvil: so it can't be done with software? |
| 20:03.09 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: because it's nearly free. |
| 20:03.16 | SpeedEvil | noon: Not with current software. |
| 20:03.20 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 20:03.24 | Writchie | $1.50 |
| 20:03.25 | noon | can I put it into the low current charge mode |
| 20:03.37 | SpeedEvil | Unsure. |
| 20:03.37 | doc|home | SpeedEvil: 2$ on ebay |
| 20:03.46 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 20:03.55 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelil (n=atg@pool-71-254-26-41.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:03.59 | SpeedEvil | I would actually like a decent quality version of the stylus. |
| 20:04.06 | SpeedEvil | mine comes apart a bit. |
| 20:04.14 | Writchie | the pen sux |
| 20:04.30 | Writchie | but I think i'll order a case |
| 20:04.43 | Writchie | i like the flashlight |
| 20:05.05 | xzcvczx | is there any way to sent texts with spaces in them using libgsmd-tool -m shell? |
| 20:05.05 | Writchie | but we already have one |
| 20:05.07 | Writchie | in the backlight |
| 20:05.16 | Writchie | except its always a dead battery |
| 20:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@84.138.214.127) |
| 20:06.49 | Stephmw | doc|home: planned obscolesence is alas the currently dominent business model |
| 20:07.21 | doc|home | Stephmw: fine for the phone, because the tech will change anyway, but I'd like the stylus to last longer than a month :) |
| 20:08.07 | Writchie | use whatever stylus you want, none fits the device |
| 20:09.24 | *** join/#openmoko |R (i=bob@modemcable241.28-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:11.31 | *** join/#openmoko poffy_ (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 20:11.49 | SpeedEvil | Actually. |
| 20:12.03 | SpeedEvil | I have noticed that you could drill a hole for a small stylus I think. |
| 20:12.18 | matthew22 | heh |
| 20:12.25 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: if we can to 100mW, we will have 48hrs standby, 20hrs standby + 2 hrs talk, or 3.5 hr talk. |
| 20:12.54 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 20:13.16 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-91-136.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:13.23 | Writchie | 1/2 the minimum desired, but at least workable |
| 20:13.58 | matthew22 | anyone working on a web browser? i think dillo would make a good start |
| 20:14.42 | SpeedEvil | pick 'web' from the menu, with an active GPRS connection. |
| 20:14.44 | SpeedEvil | It's... |
| 20:14.53 | SpeedEvil | Well, it displays some pictures. |
| 20:15.05 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 20:16.25 | defer | i think something webkit based is the way to go |
| 20:16.31 | *** join/#openmoko sarahsabeast (i=sarahsab@c-24-12-32-61.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 20:16.37 | anrp | browser wars! |
| 20:16.44 | anrp | almost as exciting as editor wars |
| 20:17.01 | defer | just because webkit is getting its own gtkwidget and it'll be easy getting a browser for free |
| 20:17.02 | matthew22 | not familiar with webkit |
| 20:17.12 | anrp | webkit = safari |
| 20:17.15 | defer | without the burden of geecko |
| 20:17.15 | anrp | derived from khtml |
| 20:17.27 | rtyler | HOLY SHIT ON A STICK |
| 20:17.36 | rtyler | root@fic-gta01:~$ mono --version |
| 20:17.37 | rtyler | Mono JIT compiler version 1.2.2.1, (C) 2002-2006 Novell, Inc and Contributors. www.mono-project.com TLS: normal GC: Included Boehm (with typed GC) SIGSEGV: normal Disabled: none |
| 20:17.39 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.58) |
| 20:17.40 | rtyler | root@fic-gta01:~$ |
| 20:17.43 | anrp | ... |
| 20:17.46 | anrp | boo |
| 20:17.56 | rtyler | this makes me happy ;) |
| 20:17.57 | anrp | well, not boo |
| 20:18.03 | SpeedEvil | Does it have stereo? |
| 20:18.03 | anrp | still mmh c# ..~_~ |
| 20:18.11 | rtyler | not yet anyways ;) http://www.mono-project.com/Boo |
| 20:18.22 | matthew22 | whatever the case, i would think a browser would be a high priority since phase2 will have wifi. |
| 20:18.32 | anrp | err |
| 20:18.45 | rtyler | anrp: .NET CF apps are relatively prominent, having support would be nice ;) |
| 20:18.52 | SpeedEvil | How large rtyler ? |
| 20:18.58 | rtyler | is the runtime? |
| 20:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=Risto@p508CF770.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:19.12 | *** part/#openmoko sarahsabeast (i=sarahsab@c-24-12-32-61.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 20:19.46 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 20:19.50 | rtyler | the binary is only 1.6MB, I need to start testing some of my base level applications to see what memory consumption will be like |
| 20:20.03 | defer | matthew22: using existing stuff, webkit gecko etc and work done on them it should be easy to write a simple browser |
| 20:20.04 | SpeedEvil | Not bad. |
| 20:20.12 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:20.26 | matthew22 | i agree defer. |
| 20:20.29 | rtyler | SpeedEvil: you can embed the Mono runtime in C-based applications, it's only ~4MB D |
| 20:20.32 | rtyler | :D* |
| 20:20.35 | matthew22 | that's why i think dillo would be a good simple start. |
| 20:20.44 | rtyler | isn't dillo dead >_> |
| 20:20.54 | rtyler | and somebody's working on a WebKit-based browser |
| 20:21.01 | rtyler | (Acid2 compliance FTW) |
| 20:21.15 | defer | webkit is the smart choice IMO |
| 20:21.32 | rtyler | as someone who runs WebKit nightlies on his Mac, I agree ;) |
| 20:22.14 | matthew22 | i don't have a problem with webkit, just think dillo would be easier since it's only like 400k |
| 20:22.30 | SpeedEvil | What is 'web' based on? |
| 20:22.35 | defer | gtkhtml? |
| 20:22.44 | *** join/#openmoko emdel__ (n=emdel@host61-213-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:22.57 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:23.16 | defer | gtkhtml isn't that complete, dillo isn't a fully-featured browser either |
| 20:23.47 | matthew22 | right... but can a fully feature browser be written before phase2 is released? i don't think so. |
| 20:24.11 | defer | i'm pretty sure it can |
| 20:24.28 | matthew22 | well, that's the beauty of open-source, we can do both |
| 20:24.29 | defer | you're just really getting webkit or gecko to compile and wrap an interface around it |
| 20:24.43 | defer | the hardest work is done |
| 20:25.11 | matthew22 | of course |
| 20:25.39 | matthew22 | but phase2 is 2 months away, and as far as I know no one has even started on a browser |
| 20:25.46 | matthew22 | maybe someone has thogh |
| 20:25.53 | anrp | phase 2 is more than two months away |
| 20:26.00 | anrp | if phase one is anything to go by |
| 20:26.00 | wbx | hi |
| 20:26.12 | wbx | is there a good java vm for openmoko? |
| 20:26.21 | anrp | quick answer: no |
| 20:26.23 | anrp | long answer: not yet |
| 20:26.26 | rtyler | wbx: working on it ;) |
| 20:26.44 | wbx | rtyler: which vm? |
| 20:26.55 | rtyler | I'm going to play with IKVM |
| 20:26.58 | wbx | rtyler: i like to get cachewolf working. |
| 20:27.00 | rtyler | (on top of Mono) |
| 20:27.04 | anrp | i've compiled gcj for arm before, but i have never used gcj |
| 20:27.11 | wbx | rtyler: i try jamvm with gnu classpath. |
| 20:27.25 | wbx | rtyler: seems maintained. |
| 20:27.40 | wbx | rtyler: mono seems to slow.. ;) |
| 20:27.47 | rtyler | -1, Flamebait :D |
| 20:27.49 | anrp | ooh careful |
| 20:27.53 | anrp | nerd fight! |
| 20:27.59 | rtyler | heh |
| 20:28.04 | rtyler | MY VM IS BETTER THAN UR VM |
| 20:28.18 | rtyler | anyways, wbx have you tried Kaffee? |
| 20:28.22 | *** join/#openmoko kayon (n=kayon@124-168-192-45.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 20:28.24 | noon | bye |
| 20:29.01 | rtyler | and what do you want to do with cachewolf, with no GPS subsystem yet? :P |
| 20:30.11 | *** join/#openmoko yaccin (n=yaccin@p57A7603F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:31.45 | wbx | rtyler: yes, lavazza, just some minutes ago, wonderful. my sleep is now away ;) |
| 20:31.54 | wbx | rtyler: is gps broken? |
| 20:32.07 | rtyler | if broken means not finished, then yes ;) |
| 20:32.52 | wbx | rtyler: that is the reason I pay money for a great c hacker ;) |
| 20:33.21 | wbx | rtyler: he will fix it for me. he already likes to get my zaurus for his next geo cache search *g* |
| 20:33.50 | wbx | but first step is to get a good boot logo. is there a description in which format a boot logo should be? |
| 20:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko Debility (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 20:36.47 | *** join/#openmoko Hadaka (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 20:37.39 | wbx | hmm. 480x640 would be good ;) |
| 20:41.02 | mjr | my first guess would be something cattable to the fb |
| 20:41.48 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@pool-96-224-164-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:42.57 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:43.33 | *** join/#openmoko defer (n=defer@unaffiliated/px) |
| 20:44.29 | cesarb | wbx: the boot logo is some sort of raw gzipped format |
| 20:45.05 | cesarb | wbx: look at build/qemu/openmoko/Makefile on a mokomakefile tree, it's the splash.gz target |
| 20:46.07 | wbx | cesarb: i created a 480x640 png of http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/tar5.JPG, and used ./splashimg.pl | gzip -9 >splash.gz |
| 20:46.07 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 20:46.07 | BryceLeo | ello all |
| 20:46.07 | wbx | but only 1/4 of the image is now displayed on boot |
| 20:46.23 | wbx | all the rest is black. hmm. |
| 20:46.29 | cesarb | Why are these people reverse engineering lowlevel_foo? Isn't its source parte of openmoko's uboot+patches? |
| 20:46.55 | wbx | -rw-r--r-- 1 wbx wbx 58527 2007-08-12 22:40 splash.gz |
| 20:46.55 | wbx | -rw-r--r-- 1 wbx wbx 17216 2007-08-12 12:57 splash.gz.orig |
| 20:47.03 | wbx | is my logo to big? |
| 20:47.10 | anrp | possibly |
| 20:47.25 | cesarb | wbx: no, the partition, as discussed on this channel yesterday, is ridiculously large |
| 20:47.27 | wbx | hmm. i will check maximum flash size. |
| 20:47.41 | wbx | cesarb: hmm. yesterday i was not online ;) |
| 20:47.52 | cesarb | wbx: even the smaller partition on the qemu setup is more than 200k if I calculated it correctly |
| 20:48.06 | wbx | cesarb: sorry asking RTFM stuff. is there an entry in the wiki for the splash stuff? |
| 20:48.21 | wbx | cesarb: i have no qemu. i have a real orange device :} |
| 20:49.02 | cesarb | wbx: Special:Allpages finds nothing on the splash |
| 20:49.18 | *** join/#openmoko defer_ (n=defer@87-196-90-79.net.novis.pt) |
| 20:49.55 | cesarb | wbx: found the cause for your problem |
| 20:49.56 | wbx | cesarb: there is a readme in openmoko/src/host/splash. |
| 20:50.00 | wbx | cesarb: yes? |
| 20:50.10 | anrp | orange D: |
| 20:50.22 | cesarb | anrp: at least it's not OLPC green |
| 20:50.26 | BryceLeo | grr |
| 20:50.29 | BryceLeo | i love olpc green |
| 20:50.42 | BryceLeo | i so wish that the phones came in the green/white that they originally showed |
| 20:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 20:50.49 | BryceLeo | would make me soo happy |
| 20:50.53 | cesarb | wbx: at least on qemu's setup, there is a length hardcoded on the uboot environment for how much will it read from the splash partition |
| 20:51.07 | cesarb | wbx: on the default qemu setup, it's 20480 bytes |
| 20:51.12 | wbx | ah. do you know the variable name? |
| 20:51.20 | wbx | will check. |
| 20:51.23 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host81-152-233-64.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:51.35 | Writchie | cesarb: There doesn't seem to be any source for the 4K image, loaded by the steppingstone, which then loads u-boot |
| 20:51.38 | cesarb | wbx: it's in the middle of the splashimage command, but BE CAREFUL when changing it |
| 20:51.54 | wbx | cesarb: i have the advanced moko ;) |
| 20:51.59 | cesarb | wbx: heh |
| 20:52.13 | wbx | cesarb: and i already know how to use uboot and jtag on ppc systems ;) |
| 20:52.27 | cesarb | wbx: someone yesterday tyoped one number on that line, and lost DFU (and USB serial; uboot crashed with USB plugged in) |
| 20:52.42 | wbx | cesarb: yeah, life is dangerous ;) |
| 20:53.00 | BryceLeo | jeez apparently i've missed alot |
| 20:53.10 | cesarb | wbx: since you have the debug board, recovery is easier; you can just use the real serial port and change the variable back :D |
| 20:53.43 | cesarb | wbx: back to your question, look at build/qemu/openmoko/flash.sh, where it creates the splashimg line, and compare to yours: |
| 20:53.45 | wbx | cesarb: i hope i do not need it yet. may be later ;) |
| 20:53.46 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: there may be hope. if the OHCI controller meets the 1.0 spec as advertised, it will recognize transition from usb suspend to usb resume |
| 20:53.56 | cesarb | setenv splashimage 'nand read.e $splash_addr splash $splash_size; unzip $splash_ |
| 20:53.56 | cesarb | addr 0x33d00000 0x96000' |
| 20:54.08 | cesarb | sorry for the accidental line break, it's a single line |
| 20:54.22 | Kensan | BryceLeo: everything is in the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bricked |
| 20:54.26 | Kensan | ;) |
| 20:54.31 | wbx | cesarb: thx. this makes sense to me. I'll report any success or failure in a few minutes. |
| 20:54.34 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: if this doesn't work, it suggestion to put the USB host into USB Suspend for power down wouldn't make sense. |
| 20:54.59 | Writchie | of course, failing to include a wakeup interrupt for this doesn't make sense either |
| 20:55.08 | BryceLeo | Kensan: sweet! |
| 20:55.34 | BryceLeo | my mom had a grapefruit sized cyst removed from her liver, so i've been a bit off line |
| 20:55.53 | ewon | nice |
| 20:56.04 | wbx | cesarb: seems that my battery is empty. :( |
| 20:56.27 | cesarb | wbx: don't you have _two_ of them? ;-) |
| 20:56.29 | wbx | cesarb: is it possible to see on the pc if the battery gets loaded? |
| 20:56.40 | wbx | cesarb: the first was empty in the morning ;) |
| 20:56.53 | wbx | cesarb: i already have my moko 3 days *g* |
| 20:57.10 | wbx | cesarb: need to find a usb hub and fast charge :} |
| 20:57.41 | cesarb | wbx: I don't think you can see in the PC if the battery is being charged or not, but did you try the trick often repeated in this channel? |
| 20:57.53 | wbx | cesarb: which trick? |
| 20:58.05 | cesarb | power off, remove battery, wait 10s, put battery back in, plug usb, wait some amount of minutes I can't remember right now |
| 20:58.18 | wbx | cesarb: i am relatively new to openmoko, because i love to play with hardware i own ;) |
| 20:58.35 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host245-214-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:58.46 | cesarb | wbx: mine should be in the next batch, if nothing goes wrong and I'm counting the ticket numbers correctly |
| 20:59.21 | cesarb | (advanced too, as knowing myself I will sooner or later end up playing with either uboot or the kernel) |
| 20:59.36 | cesarb | (and, as we learned yesterday, even playing with uboot's environment can be dangerous!) |
| 20:59.46 | wbx | cesarb: hehe. |
| 21:00.45 | BryceLeo | anyone know status on 2007.2 |
| 21:00.47 | cesarb | lol @http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/08/12/193221.shtml |
| 21:01.45 | wbx | cesarb: my openmoko has a white apple sticker on his back ;) |
| 21:01.47 | mjr | yeah, somewhat funny |
| 21:03.09 | ewon | I reckon you can get OE stickers somewhere... |
| 21:03.58 | BryceLeo | i've never been able to find any nice small stickers |
| 21:04.03 | Writchie | i didn't realize that "some assembly required" referred to arm assembler ;) |
| 21:04.09 | BryceLeo | only like the large bumper sticker sized ones on cafe press |
| 21:05.05 | anrp | no reason you can't cut them down |
| 21:05.07 | cesarb | Writchie: no, it refers only to having to flash the working image |
| 21:05.23 | cesarb | Writchie: which, of course, does not exist yet (mickey said so some pages ago) ;-) |
| 21:05.26 | BryceLeo | anrp: when you're chopping off the logo and the words??? |
| 21:06.15 | Writchie | IMHO before we're done it will be necessary to reflash u-boot, the steppingstone boot, and maybe even the GSM |
| 21:06.16 | anrp | er just put a bunch of stickers on the same run |
| 21:06.57 | cesarb | Writchie: is the steppingstone ROM flashable? |
| 21:07.18 | cesarb | Writchie: (or are you refering to the first page loaded by the steppingstone, which is part of uboot?) |
| 21:07.21 | Writchie | its the first physical page of the flash |
| 21:07.37 | cesarb | (or am I mixing the nomenclature up?) |
| 21:07.43 | Writchie | are you saying this is part of u-boot, |
| 21:07.51 | Writchie | i can't even find the image |
| 21:07.58 | Writchie | much less the source |
| 21:08.04 | Writchie | please enlighten me |
| 21:08.21 | cesarb | Writchie: I thought it was part of uboot... I might be wrong. |
| 21:08.32 | Writchie | it's what loads u-boot |
| 21:08.41 | Writchie | there is a ROM bootloader on the 2410 |
| 21:08.48 | Writchie | that loads 4K into RAM |
| 21:08.57 | Writchie | that then loads u-boot |
| 21:09.03 | Writchie | which then does it thing |
| 21:09.21 | anrp | yeah, arm cores that use primarily nand are like that |
| 21:09.32 | anrp | 3 stage bootloader |
| 21:09.44 | anrp | same deal on an at91rm9200 board i have here |
| 21:10.23 | Writchie | boot from nand is relatively new, but almost all have code to boot from something, UART, i2C, etc |
| 21:11.59 | Writchie | in any case, we shouldn't have to disassemble this code in order to get a workable PM. |
| 21:13.23 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:14.34 | Kensan | Writchie: did you see this patch to uboot? http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/boot-from-ram-and-nand.patch |
| 21:14.46 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: we should be able to load 4K of executable in the steppingstone buffer, do the shut-down except for actually entering shutdown state, then jmp to code in steppingstone |
| 21:14.52 | cesarb | Writchie: take a look at cpu/arm920t/start.S, it looks interesting |
| 21:15.20 | cesarb | Writchie: it seems to at least have code to take SDRAM out of self-refresh |
| 21:15.46 | Vegar | would booting from ram be faster than booting from NAND? |
| 21:16.18 | *** join/#openmoko crunchylaptop (n=welch@219.sub-75-193-89.myvzw.com) |
| 21:16.26 | Writchie | in low power modes, we want to shut down SDRAM |
| 21:16.38 | Writchie | and run from the onchip steppingstone RAM |
| 21:16.55 | Writchie | Kensan: thanks |
| 21:16.56 | SpeedEvil | Is it possible to lock down the cache? |
| 21:16.59 | SpeedEvil | I dunno. |
| 21:17.10 | Vegar | ah |
| 21:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag- (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 21:19.54 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: actually entering power off state needs code in the steppingstone FLASH to handle resume |
| 21:20.25 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: but ultra-slow mode with SDRAM off can be done now by loading code to the RAM buffer |
| 21:20.41 | Writchie | some other SoC's use the Ethernet buffer for a similar purpose |
| 21:21.18 | wbx | hmm. networkmanager in feisty is annoying, it switches to usb network always when my neo boots. |
| 21:21.20 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 21:22.18 | *** join/#openmoko defer (n=defer@87-196-145-99.net.novis.pt) |
| 21:22.56 | wbx | cesarb: paste and copy in uboot is evil ;) |
| 21:23.02 | Writchie | of course, we need the basic ACPI functions to work, and this is tricky stuff and I have no idea who is working on it |
| 21:25.24 | cesarb | Writchie: based on a cursory look at the uboot code, I would guess the first 16k of the NAND is a copy of the first 16k of some old uboot |
| 21:25.37 | cesarb | Writchie: but the code is kinda messy |
| 21:25.59 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-016.eplus-online.de) |
| 21:26.10 | zecke | hey! |
| 21:26.21 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-136-248.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:26.32 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 21:26.39 | cesarb | Writchie: the way to be sure would be to dd out these first 16k and compare |
| 21:27.02 | *** join/#openmoko henla464_ (n=henla464@c-5863e455.019-357-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 21:28.54 | Writchie | cesarb: the first few physical pages of NAND may be hidden |
| 21:29.14 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: hey! |
| 21:30.22 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: well, just tried suspending a stock Ubuntu and it doesn't work, and neo keeps charging while USB is suspended, and ubuntu doesn't come of suspend. |
| 21:30.27 | Writchie | so lots of work is ahead |
| 21:31.34 | Kensan | Writchie: It seems that Werner Almesberger is doing uboot related work. |
| 21:31.42 | Writchie | does anyone have a solid working resume and suspend (with USB devices) |
| 21:31.45 | Writchie | Kensan: yes |
| 21:32.33 | cesarb | Writchie: I think they are simply outside of all partitions, much like a PC's MBR |
| 21:32.56 | cesarb | Writchie: but I have no neo to test, only a lousy qemu |
| 21:32.58 | Writchie | may be outside of the disk device as well |
| 21:33.13 | Writchie | there are interactions with bad block table etc. |
| 21:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko matthew_ (n=matthew@adsl-147-183-226.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:34.19 | Writchie | cesarb: hardware can always be physically read, though, if necessary |
| 21:34.53 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:35.02 | Writchie | there is just so much stuff here and so little architectural documentation. |
| 21:35.18 | Writchie | i sick of this just read the source b.s. |
| 21:35.26 | Writchie | this is not engineering |
| 21:35.40 | cesarb | Writchie: IIRC, the BBT is at the end of the flash, so it shouldn't be a real problem |
| 21:36.15 | Kensan | Writchie: going by the wiki (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/S3C2410_Steppingstone) the source is not available. |
| 21:36.21 | Writchie | yes, the BBT is at end IIRC and the stepping stone at begining, and I think both are hidden in the exposed MTD device |
| 21:36.42 | anrp | u-boot should be able to read it out of the nand if the linux kernel hides it |
| 21:36.56 | Writchie | the stepping stone code on the SoC is not published |
| 21:37.10 | Writchie | although other ARM SoC's do publish theirs |
| 21:37.11 | anrp | oh, there's flash inside the cpu? |
| 21:37.22 | cesarb | Writchie: I fail to see why would the first few k of the NAND hidden, other than by being outside of all partitions |
| 21:37.23 | anrp | thought it was rom |
| 21:37.37 | Writchie | but we are talking about the first page from the nand which is what the steppingstone loads. |
| 21:37.54 | Writchie | cesarb: I would certainly hide it from DD |
| 21:38.14 | Writchie | if you trash it you'll be starting over from scratch. |
| 21:38.29 | cesarb | Writchie: I wouldn't, the same way the MBR isn't hidden from dd if=/dev/hda |
| 21:38.41 | cesarb | Writchie: trashing it is just as evil as trashing the uboot |
| 21:39.30 | Writchie | it's similar to the code in the MBR |
| 21:39.37 | Writchie | but it has to be aware of bad blocks |
| 21:39.58 | Writchie | this is done on an SD card internally |
| 21:40.53 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelingGeek (n=atg@pool-71-254-26-41.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:42.26 | Writchie | Kensan: the wiki is a bit incomplete |
| 21:42.46 | Writchie | the steppingstone is also involved in the resume processing |
| 21:45.25 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
| 21:46.00 | Kensan | Writchie: yes, judging by the edit history it's never been updated since last year (!). I was pointing at the wording "some hidden microcode" which hints that there's no src available. |
| 21:46.02 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 21:46.50 | Writchie | got ya. the actuall bootloader is samsung. The steppingstone is either FIC/openmoko.com or openmoko.org |
| 21:47.02 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.64) |
| 21:47.39 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-016.eplus-online.de) |
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| 22:07.20 | orzo | hey |
| 22:07.25 | orzo | what controls screen blanking? |
| 22:07.30 | orzo | the phone is in a bad state |
| 22:07.36 | orzo | it keeps blanking out the screen |
| 22:08.00 | orzo | if i press the power button and wait a while, the screen comes back for about a second and blanks again |
| 22:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador2 (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-222-159.44-151.net24.it) |
| 22:08.26 | cesarb | Writchie: just took a look at the "derviginator" (which is what you would expect to write the first 16k of the NAND) |
| 22:08.39 | cesarb | Writchie: bizarrely, it doesn't seem to touch the first 16k of the NAND |
| 22:09.48 | Writchie | it would make sense that the first couple physical pages be reserved. |
| 22:10.22 | cesarb | Writchie: something has to write the magic bootloader on these pages. If the devirginator isn't writing it, then WHAT is writing it??? |
| 22:10.31 | hp_ | i wonder how many devices have been produces in the first batch.. |
| 22:10.40 | cesarb | hp_: 1000 |
| 22:10.56 | hp_ | whow.. nice :) |
| 22:11.34 | cesarb | hp_: all sold already |
| 22:11.57 | wbx | cesarb: do you know the correct baudrate for ttyACM0 |
| 22:12.04 | hp_ | awsome to hear so many devs wanted to try it out :) |
| 22:12.06 | wbx | cesarb: typing in u-boot is strange |
| 22:12.12 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu_ (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 22:12.32 | Writchie | cesarb: Stage 0, perhaps |
| 22:13.05 | Writchie | cesarb: will look at source |
| 22:14.01 | Writchie | stuff/lowlevel_foo-gta01bv3-blah blah .bin may be it |
| 22:14.06 | cesarb | Writchie: no, stage0 only runs "nand scrub 0x3ff0000 0x10000" at the beginning of stage1 |
| 22:14.22 | Writchie | cesarb: that's what is says |
| 22:14.29 | cesarb | Writchie: I think lowlevel_foo is for memory booting only (loaded via jtag) |
| 22:15.16 | cesarb | # switch on the backlight, so one can see that we're alive |
| 22:15.21 | cesarb | neo1973 backlight off |
| 22:15.22 | cesarb | wtf? |
| 22:18.38 | Writchie | cesarb: still doesn't make sense unless low-level foo is the binary for the steppingstone |
| 22:18.47 | Writchie | or u-boot includes this |
| 22:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A55D16.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:19.49 | Writchie | the bad block remap needs to be working on the u-boot load |
| 22:20.45 | orzo | how do i get my phone out of this state? |
| 22:21.20 | orzo | it keeps blanking the lcd and then a while later disconnecting from usb0 network |
| 22:21.23 | DukeOfURL | what is the command to rotate the display 90 degrees? |
| 22:21.38 | orzo | use xrandr -o |
| 22:21.44 | orzo | and give it a number 3 |
| 22:21.46 | DukeOfURL | thx |
| 22:21.48 | orzo | xrandr -o 3 |
| 22:21.55 | orzo | to go horizontal |
| 22:21.58 | orzo | xrandr -o 0 |
| 22:22.00 | orzo | to return |
| 22:22.09 | DukeOfURL | ok |
| 22:22.16 | Writchie | orzo: Master Reset, i.e. open case, remove battery, wait 10 seconds |
| 22:22.42 | Writchie | orzo: you may have to charge for a while before you can get to powering up for fast charge |
| 22:22.57 | cesarb | Writchie: boot-from-ram-and-nand.patch seems to be the key, it mostly changes to check if (loaded from NAND & address == 0). Isn't address=0 the internal SRAM? |
| 22:23.01 | *** join/#openmoko miip__ (n=miip@p54A54A63.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:23.40 | Writchie | when booting from nand, there is a different memory map. |
| 22:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 22:24.31 | Writchie | i'll have to look at the full code |
| 22:24.37 | Writchie | is this a recent patch? |
| 22:25.18 | Writchie | or just a patch in the openmoko differences sense |
| 22:25.27 | SpeedEvil | I think that's different. |
| 22:25.32 | cesarb | Writchie: openmoko/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches |
| 22:25.36 | cesarb | Writchie: it's a quilt patch |
| 22:25.37 | SpeedEvil | Isnt't hat boot from an image loaded by ... |
| 22:25.39 | SpeedEvil | err - no |
| 22:25.43 | SpeedEvil | ignore me. |
| 22:26.24 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-245-159.44-151.net24.it) |
| 22:27.07 | orzo | Writchie, should I let it charge for a while before removing the battery and waiting? |
| 22:27.23 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 22:27.36 | SpeedEvil | The reason is that the GSM modem may not be off. |
| 22:27.43 | SpeedEvil | And other stuff. |
| 22:27.48 | cesarb | orzo: it's the opposite, you should remove the batery and wait before charging for a while |
| 22:29.46 | wbx | cesarb: thanks a lot |
| 22:30.11 | cesarb | wbx: did it work? |
| 22:30.25 | wbx | cesarb: setting it to setenv splashimage nand read.e 0x32000000 splash 0xff00 ... helped |
| 22:30.33 | wbx | cesarb: yes |
| 22:30.37 | orzo | i have no sim in it |
| 22:30.50 | orzo | it'd fire up gsm modem even though there's no sim? |
| 22:30.57 | cesarb | orzo: yes |
| 22:30.58 | wbx | cesarb: my time machine (dr. who) splash is ready. |
| 22:31.06 | cesarb | orzo: GSM is supposed to work even without a SIM |
| 22:31.12 | cesarb | orzo: for emergency calls for instance |
| 22:36.16 | orzo | battery is at 79% acording to apm |
| 22:36.22 | orzo | why did it go into that mode? |
| 22:37.22 | *** join/#openmoko manulito (n=joel@kr-lun-149-156-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 22:38.14 | *** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org) |
| 22:39.17 | Writchie | cesarb: lowlevel_foo is looking to me like the steppingstone code |
| 22:39.29 | orzo | does /etc/init.d/gsmd stop power off the modem? |
| 22:39.35 | cesarb | Writchie: it obviously would look similar even if it weren't |
| 22:39.41 | cesarb | Writchie: since the purpose is the same |
| 22:39.45 | Writchie | true |
| 22:39.54 | Writchie | it runs at effective 0 |
| 22:40.04 | Writchie | with the interrupt vectors |
| 22:40.09 | SpeedEvil | orzo: maybe |
| 22:40.16 | cesarb | Writchie: but if it isn't the steppingstone code, it will not have code to read from NAND, while the real code will have |
| 22:40.22 | SpeedEvil | orzo : the problem is tha some stuff is not powered off. |
| 22:40.32 | SpeedEvil | orzo: and we don't actually know what. |
| 22:40.42 | SpeedEvil | Switched off - due to the menus - uses some 30mA. |
| 22:41.09 | Writchie | very possible |
| 22:41.10 | SpeedEvil | Switched off - due to pulling the battery - uses <1mA. |
| 22:41.17 | SpeedEvil | (once you plug the battery back in) |
| 22:41.20 | cesarb | Writchie: there is one particular thing which makes me think that |
| 22:41.33 | cesarb | Writchie: take a look at board/neo1973/gta01/u-boot.lds on uboot |
| 22:41.36 | Writchie | there's not enough stuff to load u-boot |
| 22:41.51 | cesarb | Writchie: notice that it suspiciously have a particular layout for the first section |
| 22:41.52 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador2 (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-79-148.44-151.net24.it) |
| 22:42.13 | cesarb | Writchie: if you know how to read gnu binutils linker scripts, you will see what I mean: |
| 22:42.20 | cesarb | cpu/arm920t/start.o(.text) |
| 22:42.24 | cesarb | cpu/arm920t/s3c24x0/nand_read.o (.text) |
| 22:42.29 | cesarb | *(.text) |
| 22:42.53 | cesarb | Don't you think it's very suspicious that it explicitly forces the code from nand_read.o to be at the very beginning of the image? |
| 22:42.58 | orzo | can i run framebuffer aps without quitting x? |
| 22:43.27 | Writchie | yes, it means its going to be loaded there. |
| 22:43.33 | cesarb | (just after the start.S code, which *has* to be at the very beginning of the image or else it will not work) |
| 22:44.06 | Writchie | the stepping stone code executes at a different address after the switch |
| 22:44.11 | cesarb | I think it's done that way so the first 16k of the uboot binary will have both the startup code and the nand reading code |
| 22:44.37 | cesarb | And it looks at the pc to know if it's been loaded by the first stage loader or not |
| 22:44.46 | Writchie | do you see the load of u-boot itself in the u-boot code |
| 22:44.58 | Writchie | i just haven't looked yet |
| 22:45.03 | mjr | orzo, yes, though obviously the draws will conflict with X's, if they both draw to the fb around the same time |
| 22:45.39 | cesarb | Writchie: I tried to, I saw code to read from the nand (it's at cpu/arm920t/start.S), but the code is WAY too loaded with #ifdef noise for me to follow it quickly |
| 22:45.43 | SpeedEvil | chvt n works |
| 22:46.18 | SpeedEvil | Xfbdev :2& |
| 22:46.20 | cesarb | Writchie: so I couldn't find where it actually jumps to the loaded code, to see if it jumps to the start or to some magic offset or something even crazier |
| 22:46.20 | SpeedEvil | then chvt |
| 22:46.46 | SpeedEvil | the console is on VT 1, the normal X on vt2, and the new X on vt3 |
| 22:47.17 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: you got chvt to work? |
| 22:47.23 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:47.34 | Writchie | how so with one fb device? |
| 22:47.40 | SpeedEvil | Don't know. |
| 22:47.44 | SpeedEvil | Just worked. |
| 22:47.49 | cesarb | Even then, I'm still trying to understand why the derviginator code doesn't seem to write anything to NAND address 0. My current theory is that the devirginator code is old, and in the past 'dynpart' put the uboot partition at address 0, instead of several kb later |
| 22:47.59 | SpeedEvil | They might stop. |
| 22:48.15 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: when you write to the fb dev does it go to the screen |
| 22:48.57 | cesarb | For chvt to work, you need either 'openvt' or something else opening a new VT |
| 22:48.59 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:48.59 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:49.03 | SpeedEvil | not really |
| 22:49.10 | SpeedEvil | chvt n seems to open new vt |
| 22:49.25 | SpeedEvil | actually - maybe there are 4 vts only |
| 22:49.35 | SpeedEvil | anyway. |
| 22:49.50 | SpeedEvil | chvt4, cat >/dev/fb0, chvt 2 gets you back to x |
| 22:49.53 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: hm, true, the manpage says chvt creates new VTs |
| 22:49.57 | SpeedEvil | and chvt 4 gets you back to the noise |
| 22:49.58 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: sorry for the noise |
| 22:50.33 | SpeedEvil | actually no - it wipes |
| 22:51.05 | Writchie | it looks like there is only one physical framebuffer fb device |
| 22:51.16 | Writchie | i hope i'm wrong |
| 22:51.19 | SpeedEvil | why? |
| 22:51.33 | Writchie | i want to co-exist X and direct FB |
| 22:52.03 | Writchie | without resorting to a virtual FB in X |
| 22:52.34 | SpeedEvil | yeah - it seems to overwrite if I start mplayer |
| 22:52.37 | Writchie | the X plus everything known to man stack is going to be unstable for a long time |
| 22:53.00 | Writchie | the easiest fix is by at least two fb devices |
| 22:53.08 | SpeedEvil | dDo you need to be able to play movies? |
| 22:53.24 | SpeedEvil | Two X works quite well. |
| 22:53.27 | Writchie | not so much for that as to have a stable phone under any conditions |
| 22:53.47 | Writchie | two X work with one fb dev |
| 22:53.53 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 22:53.58 | SpeedEvil | they seem to stop writing |
| 22:53.59 | Writchie | hmmm |
| 22:54.13 | Writchie | simple second X may be stable enuf |
| 22:54.14 | SpeedEvil | and know when they are suspended |
| 22:54.41 | SpeedEvil | I don't think I've seen an actual X crash yet. |
| 22:55.07 | Writchie | probably gtk |
| 22:55.25 | SpeedEvil | actually - mainly bits of the panels falling out mainly. |
| 22:55.41 | *** join/#openmoko holymoly (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 22:55.57 | Writchie | where do they go is the question? |
| 22:56.08 | Writchie | what do they fall on |
| 22:56.13 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A54A63.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:56.34 | Writchie | both your x have the touch screen? |
| 22:56.47 | SpeedEvil | No, it works just like 'normal'. |
| 22:56.55 | SpeedEvil | when you switch X on a PC |
| 22:57.24 | Writchie | you mean one at a time |
| 22:57.25 | *** part/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@38.80-203-113.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:57.59 | SpeedEvil | yes - the active one gets the events |
| 22:58.04 | Writchie | cool |
| 22:58.20 | Writchie | can you force which one is active from the outside? |
| 22:58.27 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 22:58.43 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
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| 22:59.23 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:59.24 | SpeedEvil | chvt |
| 22:59.57 | Writchie | strange, when i played with chvt it did nothing to the current X , i'll try it again |
| 23:00.01 | SpeedEvil | a script to poll the top button, for example. |
| 23:00.23 | Writchie | we need a bailout to known working simple thingy |
| 23:00.25 | SpeedEvil | If you just start a new X, it goes to a seperate VT. |
| 23:00.29 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 23:00.50 | SpeedEvil | five clicks of the top button in 10s, forex. |
| 23:01.15 | Writchie | shake the mother real hard for GT02 |
| 23:01.59 | cesarb | Writchie: next time you are on uboot, could you do a 'dynenv get' and compare it with the mtdparts line on the environment? |
| 23:02.10 | cesarb | Writchie: on my qemu, it's pointing to the _uboot_ partition, not the _environment_ partition, which contradicts the wiki |
| 23:02.14 | Writchie | cesarb: OK, but it will probably be awhile |
| 23:03.17 | mjr | Writchie, watch out, we're gonna violate etch'a'sketch patents |
| 23:03.22 | Writchie | its 7PM sunday here, i'll get to it in the morning. |
| 23:03.52 | Writchie | cesarb: are you the one making qemu work |
| 23:04.12 | cesarb | Writchie: no, I only am playing with it because I have no real device yet ;-) |
| 23:04.47 | Writchie | nothing like the real device - for the low level stuff |
| 23:05.40 | cesarb | ah, got it |
| 23:05.44 | cesarb | the mtdparts was confusing me |
| 23:05.56 | cesarb | just run the "mtdparts" command on uboot and you will see |
| 23:06.07 | cesarb | the mtdparts thingy on the environment is not the offsets, it's the lengths |
| 23:06.14 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:06.25 | cesarb | Writchie: this means... the first page is the start of the uboot partition! |
| 23:06.45 | Writchie | then the steppingstone foo: would have to be in uboot? |
| 23:06.55 | Writchie | a true bootstrap |
| 23:07.12 | cesarb | Writchie: not only being on uboot, it's the first part of uboot! start.S and the nand stuff |
| 23:07.20 | cesarb | gtg, bbl |
| 23:07.56 | Writchie | cheers |
| 23:11.26 | *** join/#openmoko matthew (n=matthew@adsl-147-183-226.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:12.17 | DukeOfURL | What's the fully-charged battery voltage? |
| 23:13.11 | DukeOfURL | And the "knee" voltage |
| 23:14.27 | DukeOfURL | I'm seeing 4025 atm |
| 23:14.36 | sagacis | DukeOfURL: That's about fully charged |
| 23:15.00 | sagacis | DukeOfURL: I think it's listed as a 3.7v battery or some such |
| 23:15.01 | DukeOfURL | do you know what the "knee" voltage is? |
| 23:15.14 | sagacis | DukeOfURL: I"m not sure that has been learned yet. |
| 23:15.23 | DukeOfURL | ok, thanks |
| 23:16.29 | sagacis | I was able to run portable gprs for about 4 hrs. Not sure when it stopped, tho. |
| 23:16.35 | DukeOfURL | juri_: where are you? |
| 23:16.40 | sagacis | I plugged it into a new charger, but it didn't charge. |
| 23:17.08 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2141-ipbf2304marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 23:17.21 | DukeOfURL | I plugged mine into a Motorola 5V 550ma charger and it didn't charge |
| 23:17.57 | DukeOfURL | ? |
| 23:18.03 | sagacis | This is a scosche 550ma charger from walley-world |
| 23:18.16 | DukeOfURL | huh? |
| 23:18.35 | DukeOfURL | wamart? |
| 23:18.39 | sagacis | Walmart |
| 23:18.40 | DukeOfURL | walmart? |
| 23:19.02 | sagacis | I"m flashing right now. After booting, I'll try it again when the cpu is acting rationally |
| 23:19.07 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic_ (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:19.34 | DukeOfURL | is there a negotiation that goes on between the Neo and the USB port? |
| 23:20.11 | sagacis | I hope not. |
| 23:20.33 | sagacis | The wiki isn't very revealing |
| 23:21.25 | DukeOfURL | There are some fast charge parameters in the bootload process |
| 23:21.31 | sagacis | try "cat /sys/bus/i2c/devices/0-0008/chgcur" |
| 23:22.02 | DukeOfURL | 1733 |
| 23:22.14 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid1 (n=Skwid@stjhnbsu84w-14216645094.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) |
| 23:22.22 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylor (n=robtaylo@208-78-103-131.slicehost.net) |
| 23:22.30 | *** join/#openmoko toer_ (i=tore@skjeldal.com) |
| 23:22.32 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid1 (n=Skwid@stjhnbsu84w-14216645094.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) |
| 23:22.44 | sagacis | That's your charging current in ma, I think |
| 23:22.55 | sagacis | seems high |
| 23:23.02 | *** join/#openmoko rhelmer (n=rhelmer@people.mozilla.com) |
| 23:23.06 | SpeedEvil | chgcur is very unstable. |
| 23:23.12 | SpeedEvil | Take ten readings and average |
| 23:23.14 | sagacis | Oh..... |
| 23:23.22 | SpeedEvil | and I don't think it's actually mA. |
| 23:23.38 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur^ (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 23:23.55 | SpeedEvil | And I think it's not actually charging current, but charging current - operating current |
| 23:24.07 | SpeedEvil | And I think it's not actually charging current, but charging current + operating current |
| 23:29.07 | sagacis | Heh... |
| 23:29.24 | sagacis | Fixed the -dpi in .1 build. Got a BIG mess on the today panel |
| 23:30.26 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: what do you call the flexible circuit film found in cameras? |
| 23:30.37 | SpeedEvil | Damn stuff. |
| 23:30.57 | SpeedEvil | Flexible printed connectors - fpc is one name |
| 23:31.07 | SpeedEvil | or flexible pcb |
| 23:31.19 | DukeOfURL | can ICs be attached to it? |
| 23:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko saiam (n=saiam@shell.paivola.fi) |
| 23:31.27 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-150-152.44-151.net24.it) |
| 23:31.32 | SpeedEvil | In theory. It's _expensive_ to get made though. |
| 23:33.26 | linux_galore | or fpc flexible plastic connector |
| 23:34.01 | linux_galore | been around for years, also very common to fail with phones that have a clamshell design |
| 23:34.03 | Writchie | i thought it was flexible printed circuit - oh well |
| 23:35.32 | linux_galore | I used to sell panasonic Cordless phones year back the plastic ribbon connector between the two halves of the phone always failed after a year or two, pretty much the reason why there are so few clamshell cordless phones today |
| 23:35.48 | linux_galore | s/year/years |
| 23:37.23 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: it does look like re-start from USB is possible and will fit in the u-boot code. |
| 23:37.30 | SpeedEvil | linux_galore: not really. |
| 23:37.37 | linux_galore | Ive also seen it being called a thin film connector |
| 23:37.53 | SpeedEvil | linux_galore: there are many in europe - it's possible to do it right. |
| 23:38.02 | SpeedEvil | The key is adequate coiling in the hinge |
| 23:38.54 | Writchie | bend radius is pretty important |
| 23:39.50 | linux_galore | Ive talked to some mobile tech's and they say the clamshells fail before the brick phones |
| 23:40.28 | Writchie | clam shells fail for lots of reasons including hinges |
| 23:40.28 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 23:40.29 | Writchie | they are not very robust when dropped |
| 23:40.30 | *** join/#openmoko drkludge (n=drkludge@ip68-231-40-97.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:40.55 | SpeedEvil | Done right, they can be robust. |
| 23:40.58 | linux_galore | I actually like clamshell phones heh |
| 23:41.01 | SpeedEvil | Many are not done right. |
| 23:41.16 | linux_galore | Moto ones seem to work |
| 23:41.20 | Writchie | they go in and out of vogue |
| 23:41.34 | Writchie | startac was pretty good gsm phone in its time |
| 23:42.00 | linux_galore | Seen the new Nokia phones with their gem look |
| 23:42.33 | linux_galore | they remind me of designs way back in the 80's were they were trying to make plastic look less bland |
| 23:42.55 | Writchie | back in late 90's in china, nokia sold a slim phone for the lucky number R.M.B 8888 |
| 23:43.01 | drkludge | hmmm what's the secret hand shake to type in the neo1973 termial or gain access via usb networking? I have googled without success so far. |
| 23:43.06 | Writchie | which was about $1100 US |
| 23:43.09 | SpeedEvil | nothing. |
| 23:43.11 | SpeedEvil | on host. |
| 23:43.12 | Writchie | and was very popular |
| 23:43.18 | SpeedEvil | modprobe cdc_ether |
| 23:43.27 | SpeedEvil | ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 |
| 23:43.32 | SpeedEvil | ssh 192.168.0.202 |
| 23:43.41 | Writchie | like the wiki says |
| 23:43.53 | Writchie | google is a bit behind |
| 23:43.53 | drkludge | SpeedEvil so is there a password? |
| 23:43.53 | linux_galore | anyway back to work |
| 23:43.57 | SpeedEvil | blank |
| 23:44.09 | drkludge | Ahhh I was doing root@.... |
| 23:44.10 | Writchie | not really blank, none |
| 23:44.14 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 23:44.20 | Writchie | space used to be called blank |
| 23:44.25 | Writchie | but that's a long time ago |
| 23:44.30 | SpeedEvil | blankety blank. |
| 23:45.54 | linux_galore | have to look at security on the OM soon |
| 23:45.58 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: I can't decide whether to work on PM or gsmd |
| 23:46.39 | SpeedEvil | gsmd |
| 23:46.51 | SpeedEvil | needs to be functional before it's nice IMO. |
| 23:46.55 | Writchie | i think that too |
| 23:47.09 | Writchie | there are a lot of people that can get the PM working |
| 23:47.17 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch_ (n=welch@14.sub-75-192-127.myvzw.com) |
| 23:47.44 | sagacis | My concern is what are the guys working on at ccc? |
| 23:47.55 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-27-125.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 23:47.57 | sagacis | I don't want to spend a week working on gsmd or PM or anything, to find another has already finished it. |
| 23:47.58 | Writchie | what they always do at ccc |
| 23:48.02 | sagacis | Drink beer? |
| 23:48.39 | Writchie | that's the delimma, and I don't think they understand that. The community is the largest resource |
| 23:49.01 | sagacis | Right. We need a way to multiply our efforts, not duplicate (I said that a few days ago) |
| 23:49.12 | Writchie | architects write paper not code |
| 23:50.16 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador2 (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-27-149.44-151.net24.it) |
| 23:51.39 | Writchie | i think that all of the core team is very hard working and very overworked. |
| 23:52.32 | Writchie | however, many potential contributions to the project are thwarted. |
| 23:52.55 | sagacis | DukeOfURL: On my device... |
| 23:53.00 | sagacis | Volatage (ma): 4224 |
| 23:53.00 | sagacis | Charging (ma): 560 |
| 23:53.02 | Writchie | perhaps they all of this internally |
| 23:53.12 | sagacis | Hmm... need to fix a script typo |
| 23:53.17 | Writchie | but they do not have enough internal people to do the project |
| 23:53.40 | drkludge | SpeedEvil thanks for your help |
| 23:53.45 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 23:53.58 | Writchie | unlikely you would 4.2 volts and be drawing 560ma. |
| 23:54.13 | sagacis | It goes up and down.... |
| 23:54.40 | sagacis | I'm using the /sys/.../chgcur and /battvolt |
| 23:54.51 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@pool-96-224-164-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:54.58 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: do you know the highest voltage you.ve seen on vbat? |
| 23:55.03 | DukeOfURL | sagacis: I'm seeing 4125 on mine |
| 23:55.05 | SpeedEvil | 4230ish |
| 23:55.25 | sagacis | 4242 right now |
| 23:55.51 | SpeedEvil | 4253 is the max. |
| 23:55.56 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:55.57 | SpeedEvil | You need to average voltage too. |
| 23:56.03 | SpeedEvil | It's not as inaccurate as current. |
| 23:56.12 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=nnnnnnnn@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 23:56.15 | SpeedEvil | But, it's not noise-free either. |
| 23:56.33 | sagacis | Sure. I"m just dumping it to the console to see how my charger is doing.... |
| 23:56.49 | SpeedEvil | The chargecurrent is almost meaningless without averaging |
| 23:57.16 | sagacis | I'm looking for more than 0. |
| 23:57.16 | SpeedEvil | I.E. varying by a factor of 2. |
| 23:57.38 | SpeedEvil | It rarely goes to 0. |
| 23:57.51 | sagacis | heh.. After plugging it in, I see a swing from 0 to 17714.... |
| 23:58.53 | sagacis | I don't think my 500ma wall adapter is working for the neo |
| 23:59.02 | rwhitby | morning |
| 23:59.22 | SpeedEvil | On my phone. |
| 23:59.25 | Writchie | sagacis: mine don't seem to work |
| 23:59.27 | sagacis | I'll let it sit for a couple hours and watch a movie. I'll see how it does |
| 23:59.28 | SpeedEvil | The voltage noise is some 80mV |
| 23:59.53 | sagacis | Writchie: I've seen this one not seem to work. Trying to figure out if it really does or maybe why. |
