| 00:00.00 | Arachnid | You don't even need that, you just need root CA certificates |
| 00:00.10 | Arachnid | As long as the target cert is signed by a root CA, that is |
| 00:00.40 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 00:01.27 | mmazur | Soooo, with neo doing the encryption and making sure no actuall passwords ever reach firefox running on the untrusted pc, I'd be secured from automatic sniffing, wouldn't you say? |
| 00:01.56 | Arachnid | yes |
| 00:02.17 | Arachnid | Provided you can come up with some (convoluted) system to redirect all connections to the neo and back |
| 00:02.23 | Arachnid | And fill in form password fields on the neo |
| 00:02.27 | anrp | linux! |
| 00:02.27 | anrp | err |
| 00:02.42 | weez | just use certs |
| 00:02.47 | weez | and preinstall them on the neo |
| 00:03.02 | weez | wont work for everything... |
| 00:03.14 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 00:03.22 | Arachnid | weez: He wants to do his actual interaction with an untrusted computer, not the neo |
| 00:03.35 | weez | that was more or less what i was thinking too |
| 00:03.44 | weez | I want the untrusted computers big display |
| 00:03.50 | mmazur | Yup. |
| 00:03.56 | mmazur | But not give it access to my sensitive data. |
| 00:03.57 | weez | without worry about passwords |
| 00:03.59 | mmazur | Hmmm. |
| 00:04.02 | weez | vnc |
| 00:04.05 | weez | shared vnc |
| 00:04.12 | BryceLeo | if you want real security don't use "teh intarweb" |
| 00:04.25 | mmazur | weez, with neo actually running firefox?! |
| 00:04.29 | weez | well never use business computers |
| 00:04.36 | weez | mmazur: why not? |
| 00:04.37 | anrp | just don't use computers, period |
| 00:04.39 | anrp | or phones, or .. |
| 00:04.39 | anrp | . |
| 00:04.44 | anrp | that's secure! |
| 00:04.46 | anrp | mostly |
| 00:04.47 | mmazur | weez, wouldn't it be like, slow? |
| 00:04.49 | BryceLeo | anrp: i like the way you think |
| 00:04.51 | anrp | if you wear a tin foil hat |
| 00:04.51 | Arachnid | As I've been saying, though, any system that doesn't presume server support for proper methods like client ssl certificates is going to be insecure, convoluted, or both. |
| 00:05.18 | mmazur | Ok, ok, firefox surely convulted. |
| 00:05.21 | weez | mmazur: but the screen would be nice and big |
| 00:05.24 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 00:05.36 | weez | mmazur: no worse than browsing directly on the neo |
| 00:05.44 | weez | mmazur: just easier to read |
| 00:05.52 | mmazur | But maybe something simpler... me being an admin -- being able to use an untrusted pc for initiating a secure ssh (without revealing any of my keys to the untrusted computer). |
| 00:05.59 | mmazur | weez, good point. |
| 00:06.05 | mmazur | Ok. |
| 00:06.11 | Arachnid | mmazur: Easy: Use an eToken, or cook up software to do it yourself with the Neo |
| 00:06.13 | mmazur | With ssh vnc is the best option. |
| 00:06.37 | Arachnid | The Neo/eToken stores your private keys and acts on requests from the untrusted computer to encrypt or sign messages |
| 00:06.53 | Arachnid | Which means the untrusted PC can impersonate you only as long as your device is connected |
| 00:07.00 | weez | we could cook up a vnc client that is keyboard input only |
| 00:07.04 | Arachnid | (And in fact, with the neo, you could make it pop up a prompt for every signing) |
| 00:07.08 | weez | so you could type passwords from the neo's screen |
| 00:07.11 | anrp | huh? |
| 00:07.15 | mmazur | weez, yup. |
| 00:07.19 | anrp | what exactly does that gain you if the target is the pc? |
| 00:07.21 | mmazur | weez, that's what I'm thinking. |
| 00:07.34 | anrp | or point to point encryption of the vnc is what you're thinking? |
| 00:07.50 | mmazur | weez, ssh keys on neo, passwords typed on neo, and vnc from the big computer to get a nice display. |
| 00:07.51 | weez | i dunno if we need to encrypt the vnc |
| 00:07.54 | mmazur | That'd work. |
| 00:07.57 | weez | its gonna show on the screen |
| 00:09.00 | weez | anyways... |
| 00:09.09 | weez | oops... gotta go grab a bite to eat |
| 00:09.12 | weez | laterz |
| 00:10.28 | CoreDump|home | oh my sweetness |
| 00:10.38 | CoreDump|home | the new GUI does look nice |
| 00:10.59 | don-o | CoreDump|home: got a screenshot url? |
| 00:11.08 | BryceLeo | is that why building the devel image is taking so damn long |
| 00:11.08 | CoreDump|home | nope sorry |
| 00:11.26 | BryceLeo | or haven't you greedy gui guys committed |
| 00:11.51 | CoreDump|home | well I used alphaones pre-compiled image |
| 00:11.53 | anrp | well, relative to the old ver nice or actually nice? |
| 00:12.03 | anrp | because, to be blunt, the one from about a week ago was terrible |
| 00:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko ashnazg (n=chuckles@adsl-4-34-206.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:12.29 | BryceLeo | CoreDump|home: when is that getting committed? |
| 00:12.36 | BryceLeo | CoreDump|home: by next week? |
| 00:12.38 | CoreDump|home | I dunno. |
| 00:12.46 | CoreDump|home | soonish |
| 00:12.56 | CoreDump|home | http://people.openmoko.org/~alphaone/images/ |
| 00:12.57 | *** join/#openmoko ajmitch (n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) |
| 00:13.58 | CoreDump|home | ok, now how did they do the scrolling thingy |
| 00:14.59 | *** part/#openmoko disq (n=hede@66.249.26.2) |
| 00:15.44 | anrp | .. oops, overwrote the splash by mistake |
| 00:15.52 | don-o | dfu-util looks pretty rockin good. |
| 00:16.01 | anrp | looks? |
| 00:16.07 | anrp | doesn't have much in the way of looks but it works ~_~ |
| 00:16.12 | don-o | havent used it before, just going over the wiki page. |
| 00:16.13 | BryceLeo | don-o: huh? |
| 00:16.21 | BryceLeo | ahh... k..... |
| 00:16.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2593 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 00:16.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-08-01 Holger Hans Peter Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 00:16.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Sketch some ideas how Configuration, the Feed Data (GtkListStore), |
| 00:16.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: sorting and filtering them and displaying items could work. |
| 00:16.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/feed-configuration.h: Added. |
| 00:16.52 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/feed-data.h: Added. |
| 00:16.54 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/feed-item-view.h: Added. |
| 00:17.03 | CoreDump|home | lets see if my SIM works this time |
| 00:19.49 | BryceLeo | CoreDump|home: survey says?? |
| 00:20.00 | CoreDump|home | ? |
| 00:20.08 | BryceLeo | CoreDump|home: (about the sim) |
| 00:20.29 | CoreDump|home | what survey? |
| 00:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0D765.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:21.06 | BryceLeo | CoreDump|home: ... you've never seen Family Feud |
| 00:21.18 | SpeedEvil | Is the third UART unused in the Neo? |
| 00:21.20 | CoreDump|home | I don't think so |
| 00:21.48 | BryceLeo | CoreDump|home: oh.... well it's a saying that when used in this context means "so how'd it go" |
| 00:21.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Unresolved_Hardware_Questions]] [[User:Historybuff/fingerinputidea]] [[SH1]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Braga]] |
| 00:22.04 | CoreDump|home | well, didn't work :\ |
| 00:22.18 | BryceLeo | ahh... well that sucks |
| 00:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host217-44-87-188.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:26.20 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=nosdr4g@gentoo/user/xzcvczx) |
| 00:28.11 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1177563282.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:28.15 | BryceLeo | i have this terrible urge to change all the date's on the bb files to now, and snag all the latest from svn |
| 00:28.25 | BryceLeo | just to see what happens |
| 00:28.25 | anrp | .. |
| 00:28.40 | anrp | that image that CoreDump|home posted is almost worse -_- |
| 00:28.50 | BryceLeo | lol |
| 00:28.55 | BryceLeo | worse how? |
| 00:29.06 | anrp | well first of all the background for the numbers in the dial is too dark |
| 00:29.07 | CoreDump|home | I didn't say it was useable |
| 00:29.10 | anrp | i can't see the numbers |
| 00:29.21 | anrp | the the font for the numbers is too large so i only see the bottom 25% of the digit |
| 00:29.25 | BryceLeo | anrp: it's a work in progress, its slowly getting hashed out |
| 00:29.30 | anrp | i know. |
| 00:29.35 | anrp | still.. |
| 00:29.42 | BryceLeo | haha can't fix everything at once |
| 00:29.46 | anrp | i was under the vague impression it was getting better |
| 00:29.49 | anrp | not worse ~_~ |
| 00:30.19 | BryceLeo | haha, it is getting better, trust me |
| 00:30.22 | BryceLeo | it's getting bettr |
| 00:30.32 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: (third uart) It is IMHO. But CTS and RTS pins are already used otherwise |
| 00:30.55 | anrp | i think someone set the dpi up wrong on that image |
| 00:32.02 | BryceLeo | i think my next personal patch is to make mrxvt the default terminal |
| 00:32.06 | BryceLeo | i like backspace thanks |
| 00:32.12 | anrp | as opposed to..? |
| 00:32.14 | alphaone | anrp: Actually dpi setting is *right* in that image in contrast to the other images. |
| 00:32.36 | anrp | oh, so development has been ongoing with the wrong dpi in that case? |
| 00:32.50 | *** join/#openmoko trivex` (n=trivex@yukon.ncct.uottawa.ca) |
| 00:33.00 | BryceLeo | anrp: whatever the heck the standard one is "GTKTerm2" |
| 00:33.12 | SpeedEvil | alphaone: AIUI, there are no CTS/RTS pins on the third uart |
| 00:33.55 | BryceLeo | alphaone: when is the new gui getting commited? do ya know> |
| 00:33.56 | BryceLeo | ?* |
| 00:34.05 | SpeedEvil | The pins may be shared though. |
| 00:34.16 | BryceLeo | or is it already at svn but the bb files are pulling a diff release? |
| 00:35.05 | alphaone | BryceLeo: It is in oe.dev. Just stop using the overlay. But it's still rough. Less usable than the old image at the moment |
| 00:35.53 | BryceLeo | alphaone: ahh ok dually noted |
| 00:37.36 | alphaone | BryceLeo: Currently we're trying to get everything in shape to use the new UI framework |
| 00:37.41 | SpeedEvil | alphaone: Ah - the uart2 rx/tx can be uart1's rts/cts |
| 00:37.46 | alphaone | But it's taking some time |
| 00:38.03 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: Yeah, something like that. |
| 00:38.14 | alphaone | It's some time that I looked that up |
| 00:38.48 | mjr | *yawn* |
| 00:39.00 | SpeedEvil | I'm just going through all the datasheets and stuff I can find before I get hardware. |
| 00:39.09 | mjr | tomorrow is, methinks, nagging and bug reporting day |
| 00:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko minthome (n=mintee@c-68-45-231-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:39.29 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. Connected to the GPS, so probably can't be reused trivially. |
| 00:39.46 | anrp | what do you need flow control for? |
| 00:39.54 | minthome | anyone get a confirmation email this week about the second set shipping? |
| 00:39.54 | aloril | minthome: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:40.03 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: do you know any discussion of switching framebuffers between x and other apps |
| 00:41.22 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: no. |
| 00:41.25 | BryceLeo | alphaone: is there any api for that that framework up yet? or will that come available more as it's finished up? |
| 00:42.02 | alphaone | BryceLeo: the libraries are in OM-2007.2/libraries/ |
| 00:42.09 | alphaone | Or what do you mean? |
| 00:42.29 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: guess i'll wait till qvga mode is working in driver and then have a look |
| 00:42.34 | BryceLeo | alphaone: ahh ok no api just library digging? |
| 00:42.58 | alphaone | BryceLeo: Pretty much at this point, yeah :-) |
| 00:44.25 | anrp | or kernel digging in that case |
| 00:44.42 | SpeedEvil | There are several things that would be good in terms of screen. |
| 00:44.43 | BryceLeo | alphaone: lol that works for me |
| 00:44.46 | anrp | does the LCD controller really support 320x240 though? it's pretty unclear from the s2c docs |
| 00:44.51 | anrp | *s3c |
| 00:44.53 | SpeedEvil | 8 bit pallette mode. |
| 00:45.09 | Writchie | all modes supported by controller |
| 00:45.11 | SpeedEvil | This reduces bus bandwidth lots - letting you slow the clock significantly. |
| 00:45.39 | SpeedEvil | Virtual screen mode - this can help scrolling in some cases by large amounts. |
| 00:45.57 | SpeedEvil | using DMA controllers as blitters. |
| 00:46.25 | anrp | well there is one more thing; its nice that there's finally hardware to work on but we're also under the shadow of "v2 is moar gooder!" |
| 00:46.32 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 00:46.57 | SpeedEvil | All three of these may be invalidated to an extent by the accel chip. |
| 00:47.17 | Writchie | DMA controller in this chip are not flexible enough for this on first look |
| 00:47.21 | SpeedEvil | Though 256 colour mode is actually moderately important. |
| 00:47.33 | SpeedEvil | It's flexible enough for vertical moves of large blocks. |
| 00:48.12 | SpeedEvil | Moderately - unless the accel chip has onboard RAM - does it? |
| 00:48.22 | anrp | it does |
| 00:48.25 | Writchie | v2 syndrome is already at work - adding bloat due to accelerated |
| 00:48.47 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure what the accel chip adds frankly. |
| 00:48.56 | anrp | like the imageon w100 ... which again suffered from a severe lack of docs |
| 00:49.00 | SpeedEvil | Other than the ability to play random video. |
| 00:49.05 | anrp | there's no non-nda docs for the accel chip |
| 00:49.08 | anrp | and 3D! |
| 00:49.11 | Zaireeka | hmm, not sure about the UI on that image, doesn't seem to take advantage of the resolution available |
| 00:49.12 | anrp | can't forget quake |
| 00:49.14 | Writchie | adds the missing 2D blt that the cirrus chips have |
| 00:49.14 | anrp | !! |
| 00:49.17 | Writchie | onboard |
| 00:49.44 | SpeedEvil | Zaireeka: do you typically hold your phone at 20cm from your eyes? |
| 00:49.59 | SpeedEvil | Zaireeka: because if you don't, you can't see all the resolution. |
| 00:50.38 | Writchie | i never understood the logic of this dpi |
| 00:50.55 | Writchie | however, if can substitute for clear-type like stuff |
| 00:51.03 | SpeedEvil | It can. |
| 00:51.09 | SpeedEvil | It does antialias in hardware. |
| 00:51.10 | Writchie | the unneeded bits cost |
| 00:51.14 | anrp | logic of dpi? |
| 00:51.16 | SpeedEvil | (the eye) |
| 00:51.45 | anrp | dpi is just a physical quality |
| 00:51.47 | Writchie | best integrator around |
| 00:52.06 | Zaireeka | SpeedEvil: fair point |
| 00:52.31 | Writchie | i think the main benefit of vga is easy first porting |
| 00:52.44 | Writchie | except for the portrait orientation |
| 00:52.44 | anrp | that's a terrible way to approach it mostly because of the dpi |
| 00:52.54 | Writchie | i think the accel does the flip as well |
| 00:53.07 | anrp | vga apps are often designed for a reasonable fraction of a foot |
| 00:53.14 | Writchie | the flip lets you run unmodified vga apps like games |
| 00:53.31 | SpeedEvil | Not with no buttons. |
| 00:53.38 | SpeedEvil | Well - one. |
| 00:53.41 | Writchie | touch screen - |
| 00:53.48 | Writchie | missle command will be real cool |
| 00:54.08 | BryceLeo | no way too easy with touch scrren |
| 00:54.26 | Writchie | not in level 2^^21 |
| 00:54.44 | anrp | err |
| 00:55.24 | Writchie | i think i'd rather have a pad than a hole |
| 00:55.25 | dmwit | But it takes a while to get there. |
| 00:55.34 | cesarb | There's a way if you only need one button a time |
| 00:55.41 | cesarb | I.e. no multiple buttons at the same time |
| 00:55.52 | cesarb | Simply create a "virtual" gamepad on the screen |
| 00:55.59 | Writchie | ugh |
| 00:55.59 | anrp | therefore making it not-vga |
| 00:56.00 | anrp | ;/ |
| 00:56.14 | Writchie | maybe a little bt pad |
| 00:56.17 | cesarb | anrp: no, _overlaying_ the screen |
| 00:56.23 | anrp | and obscuring it? |
| 00:56.30 | anrp | oh you mean something physical? |
| 00:56.38 | cesarb | anrp: yeah, that's the only problem with my idea |
| 00:56.38 | anrp | i heard something about that |
| 00:56.46 | Writchie | got it, a bt game pad that fits in the useless hole |
| 00:56.49 | anrp | bits of plastic poking the screen |
| 00:56.52 | cesarb | anrp: your fingers end up in front of the screen when pressing the "buttons" |
| 00:56.56 | anrp | hole isn't useless ~_~ |
| 00:57.03 | anrp | you get a fancy OM strap for it! |
| 00:57.06 | Writchie | i know - the beloved strap |
| 00:57.28 | Writchie | rather have the game pad |
| 00:57.39 | Writchie | or other nav device |
| 00:58.12 | Writchie | seriously, there is just about enough volume |
| 00:58.24 | Writchie | except volume is too low |
| 00:58.36 | Writchie | english is fun |
| 00:58.37 | anrp | ..? |
| 00:58.51 | Writchie | volume as in space |
| 00:58.58 | Writchie | volume as in production quantity |
| 00:59.06 | mjr | the hole is also home to the mic, so you'd want to free it up for, you know, talking |
| 00:59.13 | cesarb | what we need is a "hacker port" like the one in the bebox |
| 00:59.18 | anrp | bah |
| 00:59.23 | anrp | who needs to talk to a machine |
| 00:59.34 | Writchie | us the BT headset to talk |
| 01:00.20 | don-o | given the files on http://people.openmoko.org/~alphaone/images, how would i construct a qemu commandline to run the image. ive tried this without success: arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm -M neo -m 130 -usb -show-cursor -mtdblock u-boot-gta01bv4-r11_cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41_0_2375.bin -kernel uImage-2.6.21.5-moko10-r1-fic-gta01.bin |
| 01:03.22 | anrp | ... silence ... |
| 01:04.01 | don-o | (crickets chirping) |
| 01:04.12 | anrp | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Manual_setup |
| 01:04.16 | cesarb | don-o: you need to flash it first |
| 01:04.31 | cesarb | don-o: do something like mokomakefile's flash-qemu-local |
| 01:04.45 | don-o | i have to 'flash' the emulator? i thought it self-flashed on startup. |
| 01:04.53 | cesarb | don-o: no, it doesn't |
| 01:05.07 | anrp | you have to dump the uboot image to a larger block of memory (dd if=/dev/zero of=/blockdev bs=1M count=65; dd if=/path/to/uboot of=/blockdev bs=512 conv=notrunc) |
| 01:05.10 | cesarb | don-o: you have to do a very complex sequence of steps, quite similar to what is done to flash a real phone |
| 01:05.21 | anrp | then once you're in uboot you can "flash" the other bits |
| 01:05.24 | cesarb | don-o: it's all done by a mytical perl script known by the name of "flash.sh" |
| 01:05.42 | anrp | perl? |
| 01:05.54 | don-o | ok thanks for the input. |
| 01:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 01:06.00 | cesarb | anrp: look at how mokomakefile does it ;-) |
| 01:06.22 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z7a06.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:06.23 | cesarb | mokomakefile simply does "( cd build/qemu && openmoko/flash.sh ../tmp/deploy/images )" |
| 01:06.34 | anrp | with sweat, blood, tears, and a not insignificant amount of hope? |
| 01:06.54 | anrp | as in "i hope nothing is broken" |
| 01:07.14 | happycube | lol |
| 01:07.18 | anrp | i'm not really being helpful, i guess |
| 01:07.40 | cesarb | which gives us the hint: create an empty directory, put the three files there, and run the flash.sh script in the qemu directory with the directory with the three files as the argument |
| 01:07.42 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-191.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 01:08.08 | anrp | does uboot startup looking at the hw serial port for commands? |
| 01:08.40 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=richard@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:09.19 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@76.204.97.155) |
| 01:10.30 | cesarb | anrp: I think it does, else how would you get to it via the debug board's serial mode? |
| 01:10.56 | anrp | SpeedEvil: looking at the lcm datasheet and lcd driver bits, it doesn't look like anything in this supports hw scaling of 320x240 to 640x480 |
| 01:11.05 | anrp | eh probably, i haven't hooked up the debug board yet |
| 01:11.17 | anrp | .. i haven't really done anything with it yet, too much other stuff to do |
| 01:11.57 | anrp | i have complained though D: |
| 01:12.37 | anrp | and also nothing about rotation, although you can flip both driver signals and get a 180 deg rotated image |
| 01:13.00 | anrp | but not the 90deg rotations |
| 01:13.13 | *** join/#openmoko korihor (n=humberto@190.75.38.113) |
| 01:13.30 | mjr | hm, too bad my lastlog doesn't reach the spot where somebody pointed to an address with (out-of-date, needs-work) qvga patches |
| 01:13.48 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: you have the datasheet for the controller on the lcm |
| 01:14.07 | anrp | there's one for what i hope is a compatible lcm module in the svn tree |
| 01:14.11 | Writchie | this is where the 240x320 is supposed to be |
| 01:14.13 | anrp | under developers/gordon |
| 01:14.20 | mjr | anrp, anyway, apparently the openmoko guys still think the display can hack it :] |
| 01:14.37 | *** join/#openmoko ZerothCloned (n=tyler@S010600195bd5cfe1.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 01:14.53 | ZerothCloned | hey all |
| 01:14.54 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 01:15.01 | anrp | oh? |
| 01:15.06 | anrp | hmm, maybe its not a compatible module |
| 01:15.14 | anrp | as expected there is no datasheed for the exact part used |
| 01:15.23 | anrp | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2007-March/000075.html |
| 01:15.40 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: hi |
| 01:15.46 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 01:15.58 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: (btw, when you welcomed me earlier, I wasn't here, it was just my client autoreconnecting ;-) ) |
| 01:16.15 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1177563282.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:18.23 | anrp | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/neo1973-hardware/2007-July/000178.html |
| 01:18.27 | anrp | a shame, but expected |
| 01:19.24 | ZerothCloned | darn, that sucks. :-( |
| 01:19.28 | ZerothCloned | what does that part do? |
| 01:19.51 | ZerothCloned | oh, I see, its the lcd IC |
| 01:19.56 | anrp | the datasheet which has the info and timings for the registers isn't available |
| 01:20.07 | anrp | so anything we get has already been scrubbed by legal teams |
| 01:20.24 | ZerothCloned | to "not reveal anything of strategic business importance" |
| 01:20.42 | anrp | yeah, more likely the manufacturer copied the asic from someone else and doesn't want to reveal it |
| 01:20.46 | ZerothCloned | basically, any hidden commands, secrets, tricks etc for getting the best out of the part |
| 01:21.00 | ZerothCloned | Its Toshiba. Their stuff works best for them, and no one else. |
| 01:21.15 | anrp | it's toshiba-compatible-maybe |
| 01:21.44 | anrp | probably made by the lowest bidder in an area that doesn't care squat about IP (not necessarily a bad thing) |
| 01:21.57 | ZerothCloned | true :/ |
| 01:22.14 | ZerothCloned | at least you have the driver, even if its been "scrubbed" |
| 01:22.20 | anrp | true |
| 01:22.22 | anrp | a starting point |
| 01:22.25 | Writchie | to the contrary, lcd controllers are pretty proprietary and first class |
| 01:22.27 | ZerothCloned | and... so... experimentation! |
| 01:22.40 | anrp | first class? |
| 01:22.41 | Writchie | its competitive game between major japanese suppliers |
| 01:22.59 | anrp | it's not japanese to begin with ~_~ |
| 01:23.00 | ZerothCloned | yeah, the less power, the better the quality, etc, the more customers |
| 01:23.10 | Writchie | the toshiba display |
| 01:23.30 | anrp | well toshiba is |
| 01:23.48 | Writchie | i don't think FIC has the full info on the diplay controllers |
| 01:23.52 | anrp | i was just saying that i think it was likely built by the person with the least scruples and minimum quality levels |
| 01:23.57 | anrp | since thats how parts usually are |
| 01:24.05 | Writchie | not lcd's |
| 01:24.11 | Writchie | its very big business |
| 01:24.16 | anrp | you know that .. how? |
| 01:24.18 | Writchie | especially mobile |
| 01:24.20 | ZerothCloned | lcds are very important. |
| 01:24.30 | Writchie | there are 1 billion cellphone per year |
| 01:24.35 | Writchie | higher volume than PC's by far |
| 01:24.39 | anrp | true |
| 01:24.40 | ZerothCloned | if your lcds are low-quality, you lose a shit tonne of customers |
| 01:24.53 | ZerothCloned | because then they become liable for replacements and repairs |
| 01:25.00 | anrp | so they're likely made to reasonably consistant levels of quality |
| 01:25.14 | anrp | that doesn't say anything about the drivers asics though |
| 01:25.29 | ZerothCloned | I wonder who Sony Ericcson gets their lcds from... |
| 01:25.31 | Writchie | have you ever looked at one of these |
| 01:25.45 | anrp | these ? |
| 01:25.59 | Writchie | there are usually both driver's for row and columns and the controller |
| 01:26.05 | ZerothCloned | those sony ericsson phones are freaking tough. Had one model driven over by a customer(accidentally) and only a crack in the screen. And the screen still worked. |
| 01:26.06 | Writchie | very high tech chip on glass stuff |
| 01:26.15 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm4-3-0-240.802.cz) |
| 01:26.57 | *** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 01:28.00 | ZerothCloned | Question: will the wifi chip+antenna be locked down by proprietary stuff as well? |
| 01:28.08 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 01:28.23 | Writchie | proprietary firmware on the chip |
| 01:28.27 | Writchie | open source driver |
| 01:28.32 | Writchie | similar to the gsm |
| 01:28.38 | Writchie | or BT |
| 01:28.58 | ZerothCloned | okay... will there be info released on how to interface with the firmware? in addition to the driver? |
| 01:29.20 | Writchie | what do you mean? |
| 01:29.33 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 01:29.36 | Writchie | probably not for changing RF levels, etc. |
| 01:29.38 | SpeedEvil | It's firmware. |
| 01:29.52 | SpeedEvil | It's atheros. |
| 01:29.58 | SpeedEvil | So you can do sniffing. |
| 01:30.00 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-84-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:30.01 | ZerothCloned | ah... thanks SpeedEvil. |
| 01:30.06 | SpeedEvil | But not actually code your own firmware. |
| 01:30.12 | SpeedEvil | Which would be nice. |
| 01:30.38 | anrp | ei, mah neo has a green circuit board |
| 01:30.38 | ZerothCloned | well, my concern was that of doing both ad-hoc connections to another phone/computer + a connection to a wireless router. |
| 01:30.41 | anrp | where'd the red go D: |
| 01:30.43 | ZerothCloned | at the same time. |
| 01:30.55 | SpeedEvil | anrp: pics! |
| 01:31.05 | SpeedEvil | If you've got it open. |
| 01:31.10 | anrp | i do, actually |
| 01:31.16 | ZerothCloned | explicit! YES! |
| 01:31.25 | SpeedEvil | Pics with dimensional referernces of the case would be good. |
| 01:31.34 | SpeedEvil | Even if you don't have a micrometer. |
| 01:31.49 | anrp | i do, but it's a 10 minute walk away |
| 01:31.49 | daMaestro | any news on ATT sims? |
| 01:31.58 | SpeedEvil | Just a high res picture taken from a reasonable distance, with a camera will help. |
| 01:32.03 | ZerothCloned | I found an article today talking about how the AT&T plans are making people get very very expensive international roaming plans on the iphone |
| 01:32.03 | SpeedEvil | And a ruler |
| 01:32.16 | ZerothCloned | one guy got a 3000 buck bill XD |
| 01:32.44 | SpeedEvil | Basically so people can get an idea of how the case is setup. Specifically the inside of the front cover has no pics so far. |
| 01:33.47 | sublime | hey guys just got my neo and i got a question |
| 01:34.00 | sublime | anybody gotten sound working with call? |
| 01:34.07 | sublime | calls* |
| 01:34.10 | anrp | boo |
| 01:34.13 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 01:34.17 | anrp | rf shields are soldered down |
| 01:34.24 | anrp | cept for the gsm one |
| 01:34.26 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 01:34.43 | mjr | sublime, the gsmheadset.state works, gsmhandset.states that I've gotten are buggy |
| 01:35.21 | mjr | haven't gotten around to looking at their contents... |
| 01:35.36 | sublime | ok, im trying to follow the wiki to get it on but im having trouble getting internet to the device |
| 01:37.52 | sublime | it seems to not like going from 192.168.0.202 to 192.168.1.202 |
| 01:38.23 | mjr | the Neo image has a netmask of 255.255.255.0 |
| 01:38.25 | mjr | so, no |
| 01:38.32 | cesarb | mjr: didn't we have already at least two discussions on this IRC channel saying the handset state files accidentally had the int speakers enabled? |
| 01:38.39 | ckuethe | isn't it supposed to be 192.168.0.200 and 192.168.0.202 ? |
| 01:38.40 | *** join/#openmoko anandanbu (n=phoenix@59.92.113.230) |
| 01:38.52 | sublime | maybe but not everyone is on the irtc channel 24/7 |
| 01:39.17 | anandanbu | What would be the size and the time for installing OpenMoko in my Ubuntu 7.04 system |
| 01:39.18 | sagacis | I haven't gotten internet to the neo yet |
| 01:39.20 | mjr | cesarb, I'm sure that was at least the second one. I still haven't got a working file, though, and as said, haven't bothered to look into it myself. I didn't buy this thing to make calls ;) |
| 01:39.21 | cesarb | sublime: that's what IRC client logs are useful for ;-) |
| 01:39.27 | Writchie | cesarb: you reported why it doesn't work, which is fine, but not how to fix it. |
| 01:39.50 | sagacis | anandanbu: Don't know size exactly, but time is about 15 minutes from a clean HDD. |
| 01:40.03 | cesarb | Writchie: I'm just repeating what i remember... I don't recall seeing how to fix it yet ;-) |
| 01:40.16 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 01:40.34 | cesarb | s/remember/recall/ |
| 01:40.47 | Writchie | understand |
| 01:41.17 | Writchie | i'm sure its trivial for the person who set the file up and left if it enabled. |
| 01:41.21 | mjr | ...the mixer is rather complex |
| 01:41.27 | Writchie | exactly |
| 01:41.52 | Writchie | there are lots of things to explore, alsa is not first on my list |
| 01:42.00 | anrp | http://atocha.mit.edu/~anrp/openneo/ |
| 01:42.05 | anrp | everyone loves electronics rape! |
| 01:42.16 | mjr | but does it blend? |
| 01:42.23 | anrp | i'll let someone else do that |
| 01:42.37 | ZerothCloned | seriously, fic should pay for it |
| 01:42.53 | ZerothCloned | excellent publicity if they can get the Will it Blend people to blend it |
| 01:43.08 | mjr | yah, as a PR stunt it wouldn't be bad |
| 01:43.14 | anandanbu | sagacis:whats the speed of connection you have got |
| 01:43.40 | compbrain | anrp: Are you in cambridge? |
| 01:43.59 | anrp | perhaps D: |
| 01:44.20 | compbrain | Aye. I'm across the river @ neu.edu |
| 01:44.48 | sagacis | I was on 4Gb cable |
| 01:45.20 | anrp | mm ill put it back together now ~_~ |
| 01:45.33 | sagacis | Sublime: I did get network access on the device. I just need to add host lookup |
| 01:46.29 | anrp | mm |
| 01:46.32 | anrp | took the lcm off |
| 01:46.39 | anrp | nothing really interesting about it |
| 01:46.57 | anrp | model TD028TTEC1 sn 720N1AA0547943 |
| 01:47.04 | *** part/#openmoko anandanbu (n=phoenix@59.92.113.230) |
| 01:48.12 | anrp | ei, SpeedEvil, the gps rts/cts signals are clearly marked test points on the front of the board |
| 01:48.22 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 01:48.40 | anrp | see 1633, top left |
| 01:48.40 | SpeedEvil | Interesting - that might be a 'free' serial port if the GPS is off. |
| 01:48.46 | SpeedEvil | depending on how it's off. |
| 01:48.47 | anrp | a bit obscured by the lcm, but its there |
| 01:49.03 | SpeedEvil | 1633? |
| 01:49.10 | anrp | thats also the spot with the most open free space inside the case |
| 01:49.13 | anrp | IMG_1633 |
| 01:49.18 | anrp | er, 1344 |
| 01:49.19 | anrp | wtf? |
| 01:49.25 | SpeedEvil | Err - where? |
| 01:49.32 | SpeedEvil | Oh |
| 01:49.37 | anrp | http://atocha.mit.edu/~anrp/openneo/ |
| 01:51.50 | anrp | imma put it back together now.. did you want something else? |
| 01:54.02 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: made a gsm call fine - dead battery - USB power went over 500ma |
| 01:54.09 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 01:54.15 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: on the battery? |
| 01:54.22 | Writchie | on draw from the USB |
| 01:54.29 | SpeedEvil | Eww. |
| 01:54.34 | cesarb | Writchie: how much over? |
| 01:54.44 | Writchie | 20 - 30 ma |
| 01:54.45 | cesarb | Writchie: if it's too much, it'll trip most polyfuses... |
| 01:55.13 | Writchie | this meter is not too precision but charge current matched that of other reports |
| 01:55.31 | cesarb | Writchie: hm, you did it with a dead battery, right? then it should be a simple matter of teaching gsmd to turn off the module when the battery is dead... |
| 01:55.48 | Writchie | not always easy to tell how dead the battery is |
| 01:55.56 | Writchie | depends on how instrumented |
| 01:56.19 | Writchie | have to look at USB spec but I think 500ma is a hard limit |
| 01:57.01 | anrp | yay it still works ~_~ |
| 01:57.45 | anrp | aw crap forgot to put the screws back in |
| 01:58.18 | mwester | Consider the extra parts a bonus gift. |
| 01:58.25 | Writchie | there are always extra parts |
| 01:58.48 | anrp | well it almost doesn' |
| 01:58.51 | anrp | t need them |
| 01:59.18 | mwester | It's that sock in the dryer that vanishes -- it emerges back into our dimension as an extra electronic or mechanical component. |
| 01:59.24 | cesarb | anrp: depends on how many G it has to deal with ;-) |
| 01:59.40 | anrp | hopefully a single digit |
| 02:03.57 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=richard@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:04.23 | BryceLeo | night all |
| 02:06.38 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: We seem to spike 50ma over limit for 200ms |
| 02:07.01 | Writchie | can't seem to find the pattern |
| 02:07.08 | Writchie | seems related to near end talker |
| 02:07.16 | anrp | gsm saying hi |
| 02:07.20 | *** part/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-191.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 02:07.35 | cesarb | Writchie: GSM TX maybe? |
| 02:07.41 | cesarb | Writchie: it has silence detection... |
| 02:07.52 | cesarb | Writchie: and TX is the most power-intensive part |
| 02:07.53 | Writchie | could be a spike in the silence detection |
| 02:07.55 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-191.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 02:07.55 | anrp | gsm calls are (always?) full bandwidth |
| 02:07.59 | anrp | might be processing |
| 02:08.45 | cesarb | anrp: I find it hard to believe it would transmit at 100% power for 100% of the slot just to send a few bits of "hey, it's quite quiet around here" to the base station |
| 02:08.50 | Writchie | when on a call the gsm power profile is pretty stable |
| 02:09.02 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 02:09.10 | Writchie | cesarb: it's tdm |
| 02:09.16 | anrp | i think it would, actually |
| 02:09.21 | anrp | it's a fixed bitrate codec so .. |
| 02:09.22 | Writchie | it's a circuit switched channel |
| 02:09.28 | cesarb | anrp: it would be wasteful to the battery |
| 02:09.34 | anrp | noone said it made sense4 |
| 02:09.44 | cesarb | anrp: and IIRC it does several hairy tricks with the channel coding... |
| 02:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 02:10.03 | anrp | mm? |
| 02:10.34 | cesarb | I recall reading about the air part of GSM some time ago... it's quite complex |
| 02:10.37 | Writchie | 50ma is 250mw |
| 02:10.52 | anrp | thats a good chunk |
| 02:11.13 | Writchie | the point is when a dead battery and charging on a GSM call it might trip the current limit |
| 02:11.15 | anrp | considering the battery is only 4.44wh |
| 02:11.16 | Writchie | on some PCs |
| 02:11.36 | anrp | the only usb ports i've ever seen with a hard limit at 500ma is the g4 powerbook |
| 02:11.37 | Writchie | wHr is not w |
| 02:11.56 | anrp | which is bloody annoying |
| 02:12.00 | anrp | since nothing follows the standard :P |
| 02:12.30 | anrp | usually you get an A per port before they get mad |
| 02:13.37 | Writchie | sure would like to have a fixed gsmhandset.state |
| 02:13.58 | cesarb | anrp: the neo _tries_ to follow the standard... (and, if Writchie is correct, fails) |
| 02:14.07 | anrp | yes, i know |
| 02:14.10 | anrp | i'm just saying ;/ |
| 02:14.24 | Writchie | it may not actually be failing, it's only a 200ms glitch. |
| 02:14.32 | anrp | 2.5W isn't much juice |
| 02:14.34 | Writchie | will have to look more exactly at the standard |
| 02:14.56 | happycube | yeah :P |
| 02:15.04 | anrp | i think that was actually a UL limit on low-power dc |
| 02:15.06 | Writchie | 500ma is just right |
| 02:15.19 | Writchie | nothing to do with UL |
| 02:15.24 | anrp | no 500ma is crap |
| 02:15.29 | anrp | 2.5" disks needs 1a to spin! |
| 02:15.36 | cesarb | Writchie: hm... isn't GSM 2W max TX power? that would leave only 0.5W for ALL the other chips, plus the charger |
| 02:15.52 | Writchie | 2W is a burst |
| 02:15.56 | anrp | hopefully the caps can sap up the spike |
| 02:15.58 | Writchie | 1/8 duty cycle typically |
| 02:16.00 | anrp | maybe they aren't big enough |
| 02:16.18 | sagacis | Is there an irc client on the neo by default? |
| 02:16.26 | anrp | irc? .. don't think so |
| 02:16.44 | anrp | if you managed to get standard mozilla running then you'd have ChatZilla(tm) though! |
| 02:16.45 | sagacis | I got the web running, but w/o java, I can't do much. |
| 02:16.52 | anrp | ... which is a terrible irc client ~_~ |
| 02:16.56 | sagacis | I thought I could at least irc |
| 02:17.21 | anrp | there are a few http-html-only irc clients out there |
| 02:17.29 | anrp | but they do server side irc connections so they're a bit hokey |
| 02:17.53 | anrp | and also probably mostly flooded out of existance |
| 02:18.09 | sagacis | I could try compiling ii |
| 02:18.19 | anrp | irssi or bitchx should work |
| 02:18.36 | anrp | you could probably take them out of debian-arm and have them work with no compiling assuming the right libraries are in there |
| 02:18.47 | cesarb | anrp: the neo would get kicked out of every single IRC channel for trying to "irc as root!!!!!111one" |
| 02:18.57 | anrp | lol phail D: |
| 02:19.13 | anrp | or remote root ftl |
| 02:19.17 | anrp | anyway ~_~ |
| 02:19.20 | sagacis | Awesome! |
| 02:19.29 | sagacis | I could do sic |
| 02:19.35 | anrp | i've irc'd as root before |
| 02:19.47 | anrp | xchat said in BIG BAD LETTERS that i was a bad boy |
| 02:19.51 | anrp | i didn't mind though :'( |
| 02:21.22 | *** join/#openmoko bradpitcher (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:22.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Portugal]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Braga]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Portugal]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[User_talk:THe_IkkE]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_groups:_Boston]] [[Neo1973_Hardware]] |
| 02:24.35 | *** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@CPE001839cfbf96-CM0014e827107e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:24.49 | jackey | i am here again for begging damn shipment |
| 02:25.45 | jackey | oh man |
| 02:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 02:28.25 | mwester | shipment?? heh! I think most people just want a little information! |
| 02:28.47 | mwester | Most times when you place an order, they'll tell you if it's backordered, or else provide an estimated ship date... |
| 02:29.04 | mwester | We have this: |
| 02:29.06 | mwester | ~counter |
| 02:29.08 | jackey | i made an order july 9 |
| 02:29.14 | jackey | but i did not get it |
| 02:29.20 | jackey | i am in big trouble now |
| 02:30.00 | jackey | i said YES_I_DO 3 times, sean told me that system did not take it. |
| 02:30.23 | mwester | July 11. I don't even know if the YES_I_DO worked. |
| 02:30.30 | jackey | 2 times rejected, last time no response, which I thought it went through but it did not |
| 02:30.34 | mwester | There's absolutely NO feedback from FIC |
| 02:30.57 | mwester | Was it supposed to respond to the YES_I_DO? |
| 02:31.01 | anrp | no |
| 02:31.09 | anrp | ...it should, but it doesn't |
| 02:31.14 | jackey | Sean told me that my order did not go through, he helped make it through and ask me to wait another week. |
| 02:31.59 | jackey | oh man, everyone is getting it except me. Feel so bad about this. |
| 02:32.13 | mwester | Well, since FIC won't tell us (someone asked outright on the mailing list) if and when a second batch is being made, it could be somewhere between a month and a year for mine to show up! |
| 02:32.13 | anrp | i think you are far from alone... sadly |
| 02:32.34 | rushforth | I heard mid-august for the arrival of the 2nd batch (on the community mailing list) |
| 02:32.52 | mwester | That's the second 500 that were already manufactured. |
| 02:33.03 | jackey | middle of augest? U kidding me right? |
| 02:33.24 | mwester | Based on the numbers assigned, I'm well into the second 1000, and we've not heard that any beyond 1000 have been even manufactured. |
| 02:34.13 | jackey | one of my customer wants to do a mass produciton with NEO, now i am not going to make it. Damn it |
| 02:34.20 | mwester | What I'm worried about now is that they'll ship it to me finally, and then start shipping the P2 models a couple weeks later. That'll be fun to explain the the wife. |
| 02:34.23 | rushforth | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008603.html |
| 02:34.44 | anrp | heh |
| 02:34.52 | anrp | that's only if you believe P2 will be on time ;) |
| 02:34.58 | mwester | True. |
| 02:35.33 | cesarb | which is why I didn't "oh, let's wait for the wifi one", because the wait would be way too long |
| 02:35.57 | sagacis | Who needs wifi? I've got BT. |
| 02:36.16 | cesarb | sagacis: BT is way too short range |
| 02:36.19 | anrp | a lot of people would like it, and besides you can't really develop apps for hardware that doesn't exist/you don't have |
| 02:36.28 | anrp | for things like the 3d accel etc |
| 02:36.40 | mwester | Actually, I was hoping that I could contribute to the development effort, but I've pretty much run out of what I can do with the emulator. So, now I wait. |
| 02:36.50 | anrp | run out? D: |
| 02:36.58 | jackey | come on guys, be more realistic |
| 02:37.14 | jackey | openmoko is a comany now, they suppose to make money from it. |
| 02:37.36 | sagacis | mwester: You could fix the terminfo for the terminal window to get rid of the stupid delete boxes... |
| 02:37.37 | jackey | p1 must do a mass production before they will go to p2 |
| 02:37.43 | jackey | p2 with wifi. |
| 02:37.48 | anrp | ^H ftw! |
| 02:37.49 | mwester | Yeah. Without real bluetooth hardware and GPS, it's hard to prove a concept to be viable. So that project is rather on hold. |
| 02:38.05 | jackey | Or FIC does not care about their investment - I do not think so |
| 02:38.20 | anrp | i'm going with a lot going on |
| 02:38.29 | mwester | The investment for FIC is less than what they pay for the annual company picnic, I bet! |
| 02:38.39 | anrp | ;/ now now |
| 02:38.45 | anrp | i highly doubt that |
| 02:38.56 | jackey | yes, i know that openmoko has a very hard time. |
| 02:39.00 | anrp | .. |
| 02:39.05 | mwester | They didn't pay for the engineering, there's no software... they basically assembled the boards. |
| 02:39.31 | mwester | They aren't even shipping or taking orders -- the development team wrote the CGI to take the orders, negotiated with UPS, and are shipping! |
| 02:39.37 | mwester | What is FIC doing? |
| 02:39.57 | anrp | selling to OEMs |
| 02:39.59 | anrp | not end users |
| 02:40.15 | jackey | To be honest, openmoko needs to do a mass production |
| 02:40.16 | mwester | The original OpenMoko team have worked their tails off, they deserve a round of applause -- not FIC (yet) |
| 02:40.17 | anrp | er, they are OEM.. selling to badge engineering firms |
| 02:40.39 | jackey | not just prove the NEO, about also to prove the whole openmoko thing |
| 02:40.41 | anrp | not end users |
| 02:41.19 | jackey | yes, they need to get this phone on market. |
| 02:41.21 | mwester | anrp: I think that's exactly the issue. |
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| 02:41.45 | mwester | Perhaps there needed to be a distributor in the arrangement |
| 02:41.47 | rushforth | even if FIC is a reputable mainboard company, openmoko is a brand new segment of fic. |
| 02:41.55 | jackey | i am trying to close a deal with this, but i think i may not be able to this right now |
| 02:42.02 | rushforth | its a new venture for them, they are not tacking it onto their old processes. |
| 02:42.12 | anrp | i wouldn't make anything depend on getting hardware, not till they've gone through the backlog |
| 02:42.24 | jackey | rushforth, this makes no difference |
| 02:42.26 | mwester | Maybe two distributors - one in Europe, since it seems that Europe is getting the "short end of the stick" so to speak, in terms of delivery and shipping costs, etc. |
| 02:42.42 | anrp | its a very cool device, and as an embedded platform it comes highly recommended |
| 02:42.44 | rushforth | jackey: apparently, it does, or maybe it would have been more efficient :) |
| 02:42.49 | jackey | FIC needs to sell hardware as many as they can right? |
| 02:42.50 | anrp | as a phone... not su much (but that'll get fixed eventually) |
| 02:43.10 | rushforth | i don't think they are exactly turning their heads away. its just the reality of a new venture. |
| 02:43.16 | anrp | wow, i just got a grand total of 1.8kbit on verizon's data network? |
| 02:43.20 | anrp | ... |
| 02:43.22 | anrp | lol |
| 02:43.47 | rushforth | how many programs do you write that run perfectly the first time :) |
| 02:43.55 | jackey | rushforth, they cut 100 engineers team in Shanghai |
| 02:43.57 | anrp | i got hello world right! |
| 02:44.04 | rushforth | w000t |
| 02:44.32 | rushforth | if only running a company were similar to hello world :) |
| 02:44.41 | anrp | its simple |
| 02:44.48 | anrp | product goes out, money comes in |
| 02:44.49 | jackey | anyway, that is something else. |
| 02:44.51 | anrp | no big deal right? |
| 02:45.32 | anrp | sheesh, this verizon data card is terribly slow |
| 02:45.34 | jackey | 5k * 600 did not cove the cost at all |
| 02:45.39 | anrp | theres gotta be something wrong with it.. ~_~ |
| 02:45.58 | ckuethe | yeah, it's verizon. |
| 02:46.04 | anrp | ;/ |
| 02:46.06 | rushforth | anrp: rev A or 0 ? |
| 02:46.10 | anrp | but i'm using it in a robot |
| 02:46.15 | mwester | Yes, but to follow your analogy, why not look to code reuse? Surely there are other companies that could have handled parts not essential to the "moko-ness", such as processing orders, and shipping. |
| 02:46.19 | anrp | A, maybe |
| 02:46.37 | rushforth | what area ? |
| 02:46.38 | anrp | whatever it is has got to be better than 1.8kbit though |
| 02:46.42 | anrp | boston D: |
| 02:47.01 | rushforth | here in los angeles, i get 1mbit solid on my t60 :) |
| 02:47.11 | jackey | mwester, u r right. |
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| 02:47.46 | anrp | 54% packet loss? |
| 02:47.47 | anrp | ... |
| 02:47.53 | anrp | that's barely a link |
| 02:47.59 | rushforth | yipe |
| 02:48.14 | jackey | btw, what u guys do about NEO? |
| 02:48.26 | anrp | hm? |
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| 02:51.00 | anrp | hm |
| 02:51.06 | anrp | now i get a consistant ping time at least |
| 02:51.11 | anrp | flow control D: |
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| 02:53.30 | anrp | guess that's important for once |
| 02:54.38 | anrp | this is still terrible. wtf |
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| 02:56.28 | anrp | maybe i need that new usb-gsm driver module.. |
| 02:57.01 | anrp | 1.18kbit! wtf |
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| 03:17.24 | anrp | hmm |
| 03:17.27 | anrp | 134kbit |
| 03:17.30 | anrp | that's a bit more reasonable |
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| 03:38.41 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
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| 04:22.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Alive]] [[Applications]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] |
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| 04:27.42 | cheriff | Hi, I've had a look on the wiki, but cant find the voltage that the SoC is run at? |
| 04:28.16 | cheriff | I assume 2v, but would like to verify for sanity's sake |
| 04:32.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 674 has been created by olvaffe(AT)gmail.com |
| 04:32.01 | cdbot2 | * * compile in profiling support |
| 04:32.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=674 |
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| 04:40.42 | sagacis | hmm... |
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| 04:42.01 | sagacis | hmm... again |
| 04:42.39 | sagacis__test | test again |
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| 04:56.23 | sagacis_neo | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:57.24 | sagacis_neo | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:57.24 | sagacis_neo | is |
| 04:57.39 | sagacis_neo | <PROTECTED> |
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| 05:11.29 | compbrain | weee. Neo out for delivery |
| 05:11.41 | *** join/#openmoko Taco (n=rtm@pool-151-203-41-117.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:12.37 | Taco | Does anyone know for certain which of the codec files in /etc/alsa should be used for normal phone calls? |
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| 05:22.39 | Taco | DOes anyone know for certain which of the files in /etc/alsa should be fed to aslactl to make the audio on the neo work for normal phone calls? |
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| 05:28.48 | moko-bunny | Taco: I think it's pretty dead here tonight :( I'd like to know the same thing. |
| 05:29.20 | Taco | Well, it's nice to know there's someone else here. |
| 05:29.27 | linux_galore | would have though they would use a codec at all |
| 05:29.32 | linux_galore | wouldnt* |
| 05:29.34 | Taco | Anything else we can compare notes on? |
| 05:30.05 | linux_galore | Taco: look at the wiki all the specs are there |
| 05:30.23 | linux_galore | Taco: or post a question to the list |
| 05:30.36 | Taco | Could you point me to the page? I've searched for alsa, but found nothing. |
| 05:31.10 | moko-bunny | Taco: I got mine flashed with the latest images on buildhost... and then played with the phone a little...never crashed yet, managed to "receive a call", but no audio. |
| 05:31.20 | linux_galore | Taco: Im tryin to figure out why you would need a codec |
| 05:31.25 | Taco | Oh wait, I searched for alsactl - there is stuff under alsa. |
| 05:31.39 | moko-bunny | lots of things just don't do much, but as expected that is :) |
| 05:31.50 | Taco | moko-bunny: That's about where I am. |
| 05:32.46 | Taco | I can place calls, and if I feed gsmhandset.working.state to alsactl, my audio is sent, but I never hear audio coming back. |
| 05:34.06 | moko-bunny | heh, perhaps I'd be further, but I went flying this evening :D |
| 05:34.38 | linux_galore | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem |
| 05:34.39 | Taco | Geez - You can no longer call yourself a nerd. |
| 05:35.09 | moko-bunny | well...umm, my plane has a garmin 496 in it, am I redeemed back to nerd-ville :) |
| 05:35.53 | Taco | linux_galore: Thanks! |
| 05:36.40 | linux_galore | that pretty much covers everything |
| 05:38.32 | linux_galore | they are also working on getting pulse-audio sound system working in Linux |
| 05:38.46 | linux_galore | it will make life allot easier |
| 05:39.08 | Taco | Oh - I'm way ahead of them. I've gotten lots of pulses of audio out of my neo. |
| 05:39.21 | moko-bunny | lol |
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| 05:40.59 | linux_galore | anyway back to making money, dam I ran out of ink |
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| 06:19.19 | blindcoder | moin |
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| 06:22.04 | aloril | interesting to see how long before Neo973 starts becoming available at ebay most of time |
| 06:22.11 | aloril | (with reasonable prices ;-) |
| 06:23.06 | Taco | I'll bet they'd go reasonably quickly. |
| 06:23.19 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[User:Wvrn]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Toronto]] [[Web_Browser]] |
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| 06:23.56 | Linux_Galore_ | Im surprised bu the interest in a phone that doesnt really work but is open source |
| 06:24.03 | Linux_Galore_ | by* |
| 06:24.06 | aloril | Taco: right, thus ".. most of time.." meaning demand has been mostly satisfied |
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| 06:24.41 | aloril | Linux_Galore_: hehe, well its really only "game in the town" ;-) |
| 06:24.59 | Taco | Well, on the community list, there are plenty of people who sound misserable because they think they'll have to wait for the second batch. |
| 06:25.00 | Linux_Galore_ | OpenFeet, open source shoes for the new generation |
| 06:25.19 | aloril | either they can ship enough to meet demand or GTA02 becomes available |
| 06:25.44 | Linux_Galore_ | In think things will get seriously rolling when the GTA02 comes out |
| 06:25.47 | Any_Key | hi there |
| 06:25.53 | aloril | (they should be able to manufacture, its shipping to consumer logistics that is slow at the moment) |
| 06:26.25 | Taco | Yeah - maybe openmoko should just put them on eBay themselves. |
| 06:26.40 | aloril | Taco: yeah, its slow at the moment it seems |
| 06:26.56 | Linux_Galore_ | Im surprised at that too, they may get better prices on ebay |
| 06:27.04 | aloril | well.. doubt ebay would be less work |
| 06:27.07 | Taco | I've got mine, and I'm a happy guy. |
| 06:27.36 | Linux_Galore_ | Taco: bet your going round to all your geek friends and showing them the boot screen |
| 06:28.14 | Taco | Yes - they see the penguin, and they start chasing me. |
| 06:29.07 | Linux_Galore_ | three guys in our LUG have ordered a GTA01, another like me is waiting for the 02 |
| 06:30.00 | Taco | The '01 is a struggle - I've had it since Friday, and I've yet to make a successful phone call. |
| 06:30.10 | Linux_Galore_ | Taco: have you put it next to a 5G iPOD yet, from the measurements it should be allot larger |
| 06:30.46 | Linux_Galore_ | Taco: well the software isnt finished yet |
| 06:31.14 | Taco | No, I've not made that comparison. It's much smaller than my Treo 700p, though, and it has 3 times as many pixels." |
| 06:31.37 | moko-bunny | hehe, I've got an expensive Ipod with no volume control now :) |
| 06:31.39 | Taco | Linux_Galore: I'm not complaining - just reporting. |
| 06:31.56 | moko-bunny | i.e playing some tunes through the Neo |
| 06:31.57 | Linux_Galore_ | Taco: yeah, the DPI is actually higher an iPhone even though the screen is smaller |
| 06:32.02 | Taco | 2op "The screen resolution is just amazing." |
| 06:32.16 | aloril | "A Nokia 1100 or other very basic phone will be much more functional for some time. At the moment it does not work as an even impractical phone. It will get better, especially if you help us! So please think twice if this point in time is really the right time for you to order the GTA01. Remember, we will have a much more complete product at some later point, with better hardware! " |
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| 06:32.26 | moko-bunny | Taco: here here....I love watching it boot up...the res is awesome |
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| 06:32.30 | aloril | from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview and they can't meet demand ;-) |
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| 06:33.05 | Linux_Galore_ | s/an/than a/ |
| 06:33.28 | Taco | I've started getting my application coded, which has nothing to do with phoning, so I'll be happy with my '01 even if it never makes a call. |
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| 06:34.22 | Linux_Galore_ | Taco: give it a few weeks and things should start moving on the code side |
| 06:34.53 | Linux_Galore_ | cant wait to see what they bring out next year |
| 06:35.57 | Linux_Galore_ | O2 will have a 3D graphics chip so some of the fancy iPhone like effects should start to creep into the UI |
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| 06:36.47 | Taco | How many processors (defined as something that executes some sort of code) will the 02 have? |
| 06:37.10 | b1303s | mornin |
| 06:38.35 | Linux_Galore_ | with luck by the time the 04 comes out we may have compiz-mobile working hehe |
| 06:39.36 | aloril | Taco: hmm.. main CPU, GPU, CPU for GSM, WiFi, Bluetooth, so at least 5 |
| 06:40.00 | Linux_Galore_ | USB hub |
| 06:40.20 | Linux_Galore_ | but thats not technically a cpu |
| 06:40.23 | aloril | not sure about bluetooth, but... I think it has its own firmware too -> its own CPU |
| 06:41.10 | Taco | My phone seems to be very close to working - if I load gsmhandset.state, my neo sends audio out to the other phone correctly, but the neo's speaker just puts out a ~1000 Hz tone. Does that problem ring a bell (so to speak) with anyone? |
| 06:41.19 | Linux_Galore_ | USB 1.2 is a bit annoying that why Im waiting for the O2 with wifi |
| 06:41.57 | aloril | Linux_Galore_: USB hub is separate and not 'part' of main CPU? |
| 06:42.31 | aloril | GPS.. I guess that doesn't count as CPU really |
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| 06:43.31 | Taco | I'll bet the GPS unit has a processor - that's the firmware they can't distribute yet, right? |
| 06:43.37 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#USB_Host |
| 06:43.38 | Linux_Galore_ | I would say a NEO has two cpu's the rest being asic's |
| 06:43.50 | aloril | Taco: that code is running on main CPU |
| 06:44.04 | Taco | Oh, I didn't realize that. |
| 06:44.21 | aloril | if it had its own CPU and flash, then there would be no problem (==same as GSM, WiFi and Bluetooth then) |
| 06:44.51 | aloril | GPS unit does only stuff that need to be done in hardware, a bit like winmodems |
| 06:45.10 | aloril | while GSM, etc.. are 'full modems' |
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| 06:45.28 | moko-bunny | I think the GPS does alot of DSP-ish things |
| 06:47.04 | moko-bunny | for some reason an auto-correlation filter pops into my head...could be way off, though |
| 06:47.10 | aloril | sound card is another CPU like stuff in addition to GPS |
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| 06:47.28 | aloril | moko-bunny: its massively parallel, something like > 1000 of them |
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| 06:48.23 | moko-bunny | aloril: makes sense |
| 06:49.18 | aloril | GPS chip does enough so that no realtime stuff is needed in program running at main CPU |
| 06:49.53 | aloril | anyway, I'm not except on GL Hammerhead |
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| 06:50.15 | moko-bunny | hehehe, I want RAIM on my Neo :) |
| 06:51.11 | Taco | FireFox, redirected via X11 over the USB to the neo, is surprisingly usable. |
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| 06:52.26 | aloril | anybody tried FreeNX over GPRS yet? |
| 06:52.53 | Dmitry_Platonov | aloril, no realtime (hard one) required. But tracking is done in software ~ every 1 second. |
| 06:53.35 | aloril | Dmitry_Platonov: yeah, sounds about what I have heard |
| 06:54.45 | Dmitry_Platonov | RAIM should be possible, and DGPS too. |
| 06:56.29 | moko-bunny | sweet, then all I need is to file the TSO with the FAA :D hahahaha |
| 06:56.59 | moko-bunny | (so I can use the Neo for IFR) |
| 06:57.51 | Dmitry_Platonov | what TSO, FAA and IFR stands for? |
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| 06:59.51 | moko-bunny | the primary thing I know RAIM (Receiver Autonomous Integrity Monitoring) is useful for is when a GPS is used for Instrument navigation in an airplane (IFR Instrument Flight Rules). FAA is the Federal Aviation Administration and a TSO is a Technical Standards Order...essentially paperwok saying it's okay to use a piece of equipment in a certificated airplane. |
| 07:00.47 | moko-bunny | I am kidding, BTW...I don't really want to use the Neo for flying |
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| 07:16.40 | guerby | counter |
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| 07:25.52 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 07:42.09 | squalyl | hi all! |
| 07:45.03 | Placid | Mornin' all |
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| 08:43.43 | Hadaka | hey, what's the best nokia battery to use with openmoko? |
| 08:43.51 | Hadaka | anybody trid BL-6C? |
| 08:46.18 | hrw | bl-5c is the one which fits |
| 08:47.14 | Hadaka | hrw: yeah, but bl-6c is a tad bit bigger - it might fit according to wiki, but I'm not sure if anyone has tested it |
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| 08:47.53 | b1303s | hi! |
| 08:48.02 | Hadaka | hrm, okay, no matter - these days bl-5c is 970mAh and bl-6c is 1070mAh - not big enough of a difference to care about it |
| 08:48.23 | b1303s | my neo just arrived :-) :-) |
| 08:48.44 | b1303s | and best off all: i payed NO tax |
| 08:51.13 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 08:53.02 | b1303s | dunno why (customs authority told me i have to pay 20% VAT ( (450+120)*1,2 ) but ups driver said there is nothing to pay |
| 08:53.44 | fgau | b1303s: ny neo also arrived and i have also paed no tx; what a day!!! |
| 08:53.45 | TRIsoft | b1303s: Don't be too happy now. You'll get an invoice later via snail mail |
| 08:53.47 | mdt | b1303s, ups says, my is in cologn, and it looks as if i don't have to pay tax too... where do you stay (which country)? |
| 08:55.08 | FuzzyCat | is it in svn ? |
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| 08:56.01 | aloril | guerby: saw from logs |
| 08:56.02 | b1303s | mdt: i´m in austria ,europe |
| 08:56.02 | aloril | counter |
| 08:56.02 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in a day 01:31:59 (1.064±1.1 days) (1788;252) |
| 08:56.44 | aloril | though this estimate is for me getting it at that time ;-) |
| 08:56.57 | b1303s | TRIsoft: :-( |
| 08:57.06 | Dmitry_Platonov | FuzzyCat, seems so. Did not tried myself. openmoko-tooday2 |
| 08:57.31 | Dmitry_Platonov | s/openmoko-tooday2/openmoko-today2/ |
| 08:57.41 | XorA | b1303s: dont despair, I eventually got an invoice for my zaurus from DHL, but they obviously lost the original paper work as they valued the zaurus at 100 euro and I only paid VAT on that |
| 08:59.03 | Dmitry_Platonov | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/neo-scroll.avi |
| 09:00.31 | b1303s | XorA: :-) |
| 09:00.53 | b1303s | otherwise i counted i have to pay 114 $ if the want it it´s ok ;-) |
| 09:02.59 | FuzzyCat | looks good Dmitry_Platonov :) |
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| 09:08.17 | fgau | Dmitry_Platanov: where can we find the sources for this app? |
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| 09:09.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | fgau, It seems to be svn openmoko-today2. |
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| 09:10.25 | b1303s | just for conformation: there is NO gllin on the phone now --> so idon´t have to search it (i´ll make an total backup anyway) |
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| 09:26.43 | mave_pan | Hi all |
| 09:27.12 | b1303s | bye |
| 09:27.33 | xzcvczx | can anyone with an openmoko tell me what it says for the caller id if the caller id is blocked? |
| 09:28.45 | xzcvczx | well with the phone i mean |
| 09:29.07 | woglinde | ??? |
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| 09:29.18 | xzcvczx | woglinde: have you got a phone? |
| 09:29.28 | codyl | xzcvczx: just look at the code..that is probably fastest |
| 09:29.46 | woglinde | I dont belivie that this function is already in |
| 09:30.37 | *** part/#openmoko mil_ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 09:31.03 | jgm | I've taken a look at gsmd and haven't seen caller ID blocking in place in there, although I could have missed it... |
| 09:31.31 | xzcvczx | jgm: ah ok |
| 09:35.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 675 has been created by mangabbs(AT)hotmail.com |
| 09:35.02 | cdbot2 | * * Failed to compile perl (fresh install) |
| 09:35.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=675 |
| 09:37.43 | SpeedEvil | I've noticed something minor in the kernel patches for the gta02 |
| 09:37.49 | SpeedEvil | Where do I send patches? |
| 09:38.57 | woglinde | speedevil first du bugzilla.openmoko.org |
| 09:38.59 | rtp | SpeedEvil: imho, you should send it to the OM-kernel ml |
| 09:39.09 | woglinde | and or the kernellist right |
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| 09:39.46 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
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| 09:46.58 | FuzzyCat | what was that url for the crappyness of the iphone contract? |
| 09:47.30 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. Wikiship down. |
| 09:48.46 | SpeedEvil | Back I think. |
| 09:49.41 | Dmitry_Platonov | http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2007/07/whats-hidden-in-iphones-fine-print.html |
| 09:50.20 | Dmitry_Platonov | FuzzyCat, this one? |
| 09:51.05 | FuzzyCat | that's the one, perfect. Thanks Dmitry_Platonov .. |
| 09:52.14 | hhf423 | first security update for iphone http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306173 |
| 09:53.55 | buz | Moreover, the companies now have all gone to full minute billing, full kilobyte billing, so that they can make an extra minute on almost every transaction... |
| 09:54.01 | buz | technically they make an extra 30s on average |
| 09:54.30 | FuzzyCat | technically they're all fucking crooks |
| 09:54.53 | Markinoko | woa, is that thing for real ? |
| 09:54.58 | buz | yeah but then again anyone who buys apple stuff deserves it |
| 09:55.10 | buz | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:55.11 | buz | ROTFL |
| 09:55.11 | Markinoko | even french operators don't go so far |
| 09:55.18 | SpeedEvil | I'm about to setup a build environment. |
| 09:55.26 | mmazur | fraudulently? |
| 09:55.28 | mmazur | wtf? |
| 09:55.28 | SpeedEvil | I'm running an oldish version of slackware. |
| 09:55.54 | SpeedEvil | What distribution is best? I note that the OE recommended distribution is Ark linux. |
| 09:55.58 | Markinoko | SpeedEvil: switch to LFS :-) |
| 09:55.58 | SpeedEvil | Is this reasonable? |
| 09:56.05 | buz | fraudulent=at&t doesnt get money |
| 09:56.41 | SpeedEvil | 5/day... |
| 09:56.47 | SpeedEvil | Are they on crack? |
| 09:57.04 | jgm | I am using Ubuntu, probably more useful as a general-purpose linux |
| 09:58.14 | buz | i wonder what use means |
| 09:58.16 | Dmitry_Platonov | SpeedEvil, I'd vote for gentoo |
| 09:58.31 | buz | knowing the telcos, it's probably 150 tcp connections ;) |
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| 09:59.43 | buz | SpeedEvil: do you come from windows? |
| 10:00.09 | mjr | (Apparently that WiFi limit counts for AT&T's or some of their partner's access points, not any old access point you might connect to. So it's not as bad as it seems, merely evil as usual.) |
| 10:00.11 | Dmitry_Platonov | (Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU 5160 @ 3.00GHz) X 2 = 4 cores. I like to build on this machine. |
| 10:00.25 | SpeedEvil | buz: Depends what you mean. |
| 10:00.41 | SpeedEvil | I started on 95, before I switched to linux. |
| 10:00.52 | buz | so you already run win? |
| 10:01.00 | buz | sorry linux |
| 10:01.04 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 10:01.12 | FuzzyCat | why can't you use that then? |
| 10:01.13 | SpeedEvil | Slackware - couple of years old. |
| 10:01.42 | SpeedEvil | Because I really don't want to screw with build process errors, ideally I want to hit 'go' and have it simply work. |
| 10:02.00 | FuzzyCat | there's a vmware image somewhere... |
| 10:02.08 | Markinoko | SpeedEvil: hitting 'go' and having work is utopia |
| 10:02.18 | SpeedEvil | Where do I download utopia? :) |
| 10:02.19 | jgm | Ubuntu is probably the most popular so the one you're most likely to get help with (although everyone has their favourite). |
| 10:02.23 | Markinoko | SpeedEvil: microsoft has been trying to sell that crap for years |
| 10:02.25 | FuzzyCat | or even there;s a chroot env too |
| 10:02.35 | Markinoko | SpeedEvil: lol :-) |
| 10:02.39 | FuzzyCat | ubuntu sucks for kernel upgrades/sources |
| 10:02.41 | mjr | yeah, I got the mokomakefile instructions working quite painlessly with ubu |
| 10:03.17 | FuzzyCat | they'll release a new kernel update, and then you have to wait a week for the sources... |
| 10:03.26 | jgm | FuzzyCat: it does? Seems fine to me. That said I'm not compiling my own kernel |
| 10:03.26 | Markinoko | jgm: ubuntu is popular, but it is not the best 'dev' environment. They, as debian do, mess up with the libs names. |
| 10:03.35 | FuzzyCat | whcih is painful since vmware acerhk etc all need tecompiling |
| 10:03.39 | Markinoko | jgm: although I do like ubuntu a lot for desktop use |
| 10:04.01 | FuzzyCat | jgm, I guess you wont experience that then :) |
| 10:04.11 | jgm | Okay, so let's just say that I'm using Ubuntu, running mokomakefile and developing my own apps and it works for me. YMMV |
| 10:05.43 | SpeedEvil | ubuntu 7.04 reasonable? |
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| 10:05.54 | Markinoko | SpeedEvil: works good |
| 10:05.55 | Dmitry_Platonov | SpeedEvil, mokomakefile builds almost everything you will need. Pre-requestities, I think, is subversion, monotone & native toolchain |
| 10:07.20 | SpeedEvil | no svn, monotone |
| 10:07.34 | Markinoko | SpeedEvil: yes SVN, and compiled with SSL option |
| 10:07.49 | FuzzyCat | iirc ubuntu doesn't install sshd either... |
| 10:07.50 | Markinoko | SpeedEvil: otherwise one of the package fails to download |
| 10:08.14 | buz | FuzzyCat: which makes sense on a desktop os, mostl |
| 10:08.14 | buz | y |
| 10:08.34 | SpeedEvil | Anyway, got other stuff to do, can just leave ubuntu to download. |
| 10:09.31 | Markinoko | hmm, now that I think of it, I don't recall seing SVN+SSL requirement in the wiki... |
| 10:09.46 | FuzzyCat | buz: yeah, for a user ;) |
| 10:10.02 | buz | and for everyone else, apt-get is easy enough |
| 10:10.24 | buz | its not like it's forcing you to manually generate ssh keys or anything |
| 10:10.39 | Markinoko | yeah, complaining on ubuntu's usability is a joke... especialy for an experienced user :-) |
| 10:11.17 | buz | besides, i think it's good practice not to have any daemons running on public interfaces by default |
| 10:11.52 | FuzzyCat | well most people are behind nat.. |
| 10:12.07 | FuzzyCat | but yeah.. you don't need it, don;t run it |
| 10:12.33 | buz | people might be behind nat at home, much less so when using wifi some place else |
| 10:12.48 | FuzzyCat | but this is a desktop... not a laptop |
| 10:12.58 | FuzzyCat | unless you carry your desktop about |
| 10:13.09 | buz | my laptop is my desktop these days |
| 10:13.18 | buz | just ordered a new one ;) |
| 10:13.29 | FuzzyCat | what sort? |
| 10:13.50 | buz | latitude d830, only machine that would offer the specs i wanted |
| 10:13.59 | FuzzyCat | mine has an issue with the wifi... |
| 10:14.17 | *** join/#openmoko openmoko (n=cindy@c-24-218-180-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 10:14.20 | FuzzyCat | if i turn on bluetooth on my phone, it kills my wifi for 10 seconds |
| 10:15.52 | Markinoko | FuzzyCat: how did you time that ? |
| 10:16.34 | FuzzyCat | mentally |
| 10:17.25 | Markinoko | FuzzyCat: hmm, wait, you have wifi on your neo ?? |
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| 10:21.17 | SpeedEvil | OMG - he found out - now you have to kill him. |
| 10:23.03 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 10:23.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_OpenOCD]] [[Hardware_Developer]] [[Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Debug_Board]] [[User:Gadfly/Phase1_Specs]] [[Neo1973_Debug_Board_v3]] [[Hardware_Developer/es]] [[Hardware/de]] [[Hardware_Developer/zh_cn]] and other changes |
| 10:25.21 | Hadaka | Will the Neo charge the Nokia BL-5C battery? |
| 10:25.53 | FuzzyCat | Markinoko, no, on my SE P910i |
| 10:26.36 | Markinoko | FuzzyCat: oh, ok, I was lost for a second :-) |
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| 10:31.56 | xzcvczx | is there a list of the order that stuff gets compiled so i can work out how many hours i have left til its done? |
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| 10:36.19 | Dmitry_Platonov | Does anybody know why bitbake fetches svn sources via http:// even if proto=https specified in SRC_URI? |
| 10:44.29 | kristian-m | Dmitry_Platonov maybe its overwritten by the url-definition |
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| 10:46.21 | Dmitry_Platonov | can it be that svn build by mokomakefile does not support ssl? |
| 10:47.32 | Markinoko | Dmitry_Platonov: mokomake doesn't build svn |
| 10:48.06 | Markinoko | Dmitry_Platonov: at least not here. I had to build it myself *and* not forget --enable-ssl |
| 10:49.13 | Dmitry_Platonov | ok. I found cause. It created directory in sources/svn and did update instead of checkout |
| 10:49.54 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03chris * r2594 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c): Send a WM delete event instead of destroying windows, fix raise app |
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| 10:51.48 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=zhaoshic@222.66.81.98) |
| 10:53.10 | Richard | when I run bitbake -g openmoko-devel-image, why are there only alldepends.dot and depends.dot? I cannot find rdepends.dot |
| 10:53.54 | *** join/#openmoko mil__ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 10:53.56 | XorA | diff alldepends.dot and depends.dot Ill bet |
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| 10:55.26 | Richard | depends.do is small while alldepends.dot is large |
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| 11:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2141-ipbf2304marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 11:09.08 | aloril | (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Poky Linux 3.0 released http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/08/01/poky-linux-30-released/ |
| 11:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 11:09.56 | PBeck | hi |
| 11:10.03 | raster | ho |
| 11:11.34 | ewon | hi |
| 11:16.51 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2595 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): More debugging statements |
| 11:20.54 | *** join/#openmoko adrian3 (n=adrian@84.232.186.196) |
| 11:22.01 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-39.upc.chello.be) |
| 11:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qcbb9.q.pppool.de) |
| 11:25.14 | mjr | Hmm, the Neo's built-in speakers are surprisingly good. Not good, of course, at that size, but surprisingly. |
| 11:26.19 | SpeedEvil | 02 loses a speaker |
| 11:27.16 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton (n=vicente@212.166.192.135) |
| 11:29.20 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:31.01 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 11:32.09 | adrian3 | Hi! I'm new here... I have some questions about the translations: can I contribute or this thing don't matter now, in the development phase ? |
| 11:32.09 | aloril | adrian3: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:33.44 | Dmitry_Platonov | I think, wiki translation is of greater priority right now |
| 11:34.47 | Dmitry_Platonov | since there are far more wiki readers then neo owners ^_^ |
| 11:36.01 | adrian3 | ok, thanks for the advice |
| 11:36.37 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2596 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 11:36.37 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-08-01 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 11:36.37 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (moko_dialer_init): |
| 11:36.37 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Init some variables properly. |
| 11:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 11:44.12 | kuyky | Dmitry_Platonov, can you tell me how one can start translating? |
| 11:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 11:44.35 | Vegar | how do you send DTMF tones with openmoko-dialer? |
| 11:44.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | kayky, translation what? wiki? |
| 11:44.53 | Dmitry_Platonov | s/kayky/kuyky/ |
| 11:45.08 | kuyky | well... anything :P |
| 11:45.28 | kuyky | whatever i can help with |
| 11:46.35 | Dmitry_Platonov | go to http://wiki.openmoko.com and strart translating/correcting pages that need translation |
| 11:46.47 | Elrond | s/com/org/ ? |
| 11:46.59 | Dmitry_Platonov | Right, Elrond |
| 11:47.14 | Dmitry_Platonov | http://wiki.openmoko.org is it. |
| 11:47.16 | *** join/#openmoko marcus_brutus (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 11:47.53 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:49.07 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Any news on the fitting? |
| 11:49.49 | SpeedEvil | I got halfway then I got distracted by a shiny thing. |
| 11:50.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03chris * r2597 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Implement application searching in the launcher |
| 11:50.02 | SpeedEvil | On the rest of it now. |
| 11:50.32 | SpeedEvil | (I found the kernel source patches had lots of fixmes, which I can fix) |
| 11:51.10 | Elrond | "shiny thing"? |
| 11:52.42 | CoreDump|afk | SpeedEvil: I'll probably dig out the scope today. If you need anything that is not on the wiki page, post it in this channel, addressed to me. I'll know |
| 11:52.57 | SpeedEvil | Wave shiny thing in front of babies, and they will be distracted. |
| 11:53.09 | Fatal | the destroyer of concentration, "oooh, shiny" |
| 11:54.19 | Dmitry_Platonov | what about asm/page.h error in perl-native? how to fix? |
| 11:55.56 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I meant: Which shiny thing? ;-) |
| 11:57.58 | raster | still works for me |
| 11:58.30 | *** join/#openmoko marcus_brutus (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 11:58.47 | *** join/#openmoko Plasma_GR (n=VIPERNET@athedsl-211368.home.otenet.gr) |
| 11:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 12:00.19 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:01.59 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: the timestamps on the decode trace - what do they mean? |
| 12:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:03.06 | *** join/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:05.02 | dando- | hi @ all |
| 12:06.37 | PBeck | new videos from mokoninja :D => http://youtube.com/user/mokoNinja |
| 12:06.52 | SpeedEvil | Flash is crashing for me. |
| 12:06.58 | SpeedEvil | And mplayer doesn't want to know. |
| 12:07.12 | dando- | I have some problems cross compilling an X11 Applikation. compiler cant find the X11/Xlib.h |
| 12:07.31 | Ganneff | SpeedEvil: youtube-dl |
| 12:07.38 | Ganneff | and then xine or mplayer on the file directly |
| 12:07.39 | dando- | So where are the arm libraries of X11? |
| 12:08.27 | SpeedEvil | Ganneff: mplayer bombs out on the file. |
| 12:08.44 | SpeedEvil | It used to work. |
| 12:08.51 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - The timestamps are from the strace. So that's "time on the host". Not necassrily in sync with any known timezone. ;-) |
| 12:08.57 | mjr | should make some bug reports, but tired |
| 12:09.18 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. so NMEA will start some time after the beginning - 60s? |
| 12:09.28 | SpeedEvil | what's the offset? |
| 12:09.44 | Elrond | I haven't found the offset yet. |
| 12:09.55 | SpeedEvil | When does the first NMEA output happen in the strace |
| 12:09.57 | Elrond | Do you have the strace at hand? |
| 12:10.07 | SpeedEvil | no - my connection is slow ATM |
| 12:10.49 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 12:11.01 | Dmitry_Platonov | SpeedEvil, if you looking at coldstart traces - indeed, there is some lag. gllin have to get ephemeris |
| 12:11.08 | Elrond | Ahh, I can log into ltg and check the strace there. |
| 12:11.12 | dando- | Who is the guy in the video they call the doctor? |
| 12:11.36 | SpeedEvil | Actually - if the clock was set - I can ignore the whole hour |
| 12:12.17 | Elrond | 07:44:44.942950 write(1, "$GPGSA,A,3,10,13,25,28,,,,,,,,,1"..., 49) = 49 |
| 12:12.26 | SpeedEvil | Ok, thanks. |
| 12:12.39 | Elrond | 07:44:44.880737 write(1, "$GPGGA,145521.62,5226.163272,N,0"..., 90) = 90 |
| 12:12.45 | Elrond | 07:44:44.895470 write(1, "$GPRMC,145521.62,A,5226.163272,N"..., 75) = 75 |
| 12:12.52 | SpeedEvil | Right - that's fine. |
| 12:14.53 | mil__ | SpeedEvil: thats what i get in dfu-util while neo is in uboot menu.. Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" .. wanted to put the device in dfu mode but when i select 'set console to usb' in the uboot.. the screen slides out and returns to uboot screen. any idea? |
| 12:15.13 | SpeedEvil | None. |
| 12:16.13 | mil__ | its the uboot that shipped with it? isnt it supposed to work? any tricks to get the device in dfu mode? |
| 12:17.29 | SpeedEvil | I've never actually booted a neo. |
| 12:17.40 | Elrond | mil__ - Just don't care. Just start using dfu. It switches to the mode on its own. |
| 12:18.01 | openmoko | mil__ - the screen does return to uboot screen. You have to do the dfu-util very quickly after switching |
| 12:18.24 | Elrond | mil__ - DFU has different modes. "Found runtime" means, that DFU is available and you can go ahead and use it. |
| 12:18.40 | Elrond | openmoko - You have a minute time, I think. |
| 12:19.22 | mil__ | thanks alot. dont want fresh hardware bricks in my hands ;) |
| 12:19.37 | Elrond | mil__ - Just don't try to update u-boot. |
| 12:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@n128-227-139-194.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 12:20.09 | Elrond | mil__ - Take a look at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 12:20.09 | openmoko | oops, why am I openmoko? sorry about that. I am not openmoko :) |
| 12:21.14 | Fatal | you only want a thousand geeks tinkering with you |
| 12:21.21 | Fatal | you perv |
| 12:22.19 | Elrond | <-- heads away for work. |
| 12:24.05 | dando- | anyone has an idea where to find the arm compiled X11 libraries? |
| 12:24.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/pt]] [[Main_Page/ro]] [[Translation]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers/ro]] [[Basic_End-user/ro]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/de]] [[Translation_HOWTO]] [[Neo1973_GTA02_Hardware]] |
| 12:24.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2598 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 12:24.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-08-01 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 12:24.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_pin_requested), |
| 12:24.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (on_call_progress_changed), (register_network_cb): |
| 12:24.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: More debugging. |
| 12:24.28 | dando- | need compiler to tell where to find |
| 12:25.22 | *** part/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:25.25 | *** join/#openmoko cindy (n=cindy@c-24-218-180-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 12:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@adsl-d150.84-47-22.t-com.sk) |
| 12:28.25 | dando- | strange |
| 12:33.02 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FF56E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:33.38 | sagacis | I added some notes to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Flashing_openmoko to help some flashing concerns |
| 12:38.47 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 12:41.23 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (i=bryce@trans-am.dreamhost.com) |
| 12:41.56 | Moriarty_ | ah, build problems. |
| 12:42.28 | Moriarty_ | for some reason bitbake can't find openmoko-mainmenu to download the source. |
| 12:43.26 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 12:43.31 | Moriarty_ | oh. I see. the bitbake recipe is wrong, I think. |
| 12:44.26 | *** join/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 12:45.45 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 12:47.10 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 12:47.55 | Linux_Galore | few new video's on youtube http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=openmoko&search_sort=video_date_uploaded&search_category=0&search=Search&v= |
| 12:50.34 | Linux_Galore | hmm poky looks nice http://www.pokylinux.org/images/sato/web-1.pn |
| 12:50.43 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:55.31 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: I think -340 is closer than -320 - there are moderate systematic errors. I think in large part due to the fact that I'm back-propagating the orbit from now, back to March. |
| 12:56.31 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:58.37 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: and there are fairly large errors - I think due to noise. |
| 13:02.51 | Dmitry_Platonov | SpeedEvil, are you fitting doppler? |
| 13:03.14 | SpeedEvil | Dmitry_Platonov: yes. |
| 13:04.40 | SpeedEvil | The data looks quite noisy - a nice long clean trace would be good. Of >12h. |
| 13:04.44 | SpeedEvil | On the plus side. |
| 13:04.51 | *** part/#openmoko mil__ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 13:05.09 | SpeedEvil | All the observable satellites are within 8m/s or so of the predicted positions over the couple of hours of the trace. |
| 13:05.21 | SpeedEvil | And usually closer. |
| 13:07.18 | Dmitry_Platonov | anyway, doppler is of little use during normal operation. |
| 13:07.27 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:07.32 | SpeedEvil | No, not directly. |
| 13:07.52 | SpeedEvil | I'm trying to go from that to other signal parameters. |
| 13:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:08.06 | SpeedEvil | Or hoping to. |
| 13:08.45 | Dmitry_Platonov | I written in mailing list how, IMHO, pseudorange is computed |
| 13:09.11 | Dmitry_Platonov | not exactly pseudorange, but code delay |
| 13:09.35 | SpeedEvil | For example, if I can tell what the real doppler is precisely, what the observed doppler setting is, then I know the code delay changes. |
| 13:09.39 | Dmitry_Platonov | which gives least significant part of pseudorange |
| 13:10.02 | SpeedEvil | When? |
| 13:10.15 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.89) |
| 13:11.26 | Dmitry_Platonov | http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/sphyrna-devel/2007-July/000002.html |
| 13:11.41 | Dmitry_Platonov | it was not too verbation |
| 13:11.52 | Dmitry_Platonov | s/verbation/verbatim/ |
| 13:12.16 | SpeedEvil | verbose |
| 13:12.23 | SpeedEvil | verbatim is 'as it was written' |
| 13:12.28 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 13:12.35 | SpeedEvil | verbose is 'lots of words' |
| 13:13.06 | SpeedEvil | But just speaks english and gibberish. |
| 13:13.09 | Dmitry_Platonov | my english is somewhat broken 8) |
| 13:13.43 | SpeedEvil | It's significantly better than my russian :) |
| 13:13.56 | Dmitry_Platonov | and see my next message for small correction |
| 13:13.57 | SpeedEvil | Da, Nyet, and Vodka is about my limit. |
| 13:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie|zzzZZZz (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 13:15.16 | *** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 13:15.47 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if the position accuracy can be gotten high enough simply by averaging the outputs of the correlators. |
| 13:15.55 | SpeedEvil | Or if some other step is required. |
| 13:16.50 | *** join/#openmoko rschuster (n=rob@vpn.tarent.de) |
| 13:18.57 | Dmitry_Platonov | averaging? for what? |
| 13:19.42 | *** join/#openmoko ashnazg (n=ashnazg@beast.bluga.net) |
| 13:20.24 | SpeedEvil | To go from the per-1Khz code-phase to a psuedorange accurate to 3ns or so. |
| 13:20.46 | SpeedEvil | code-phase error output |
| 13:22.32 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 13:22.38 | Dmitry_Platonov | hm. not quite understand. Why 1Khz? It seems hammerhead operates on 1Hz or like basis. The only thing which needs 1Khz is PLL IMHO |
| 13:22.42 | *** join/#openmoko ashnazg (n=ashnazg@beast.bluga.net) |
| 13:23.05 | SpeedEvil | There has to be something internally that bit-slices the incoming signal. |
| 13:23.22 | SpeedEvil | To generate the navigation bits |
| 13:23.41 | *** part/#openmoko ashnazg (n=ashnazg@beast.bluga.net) |
| 13:24.00 | Dmitry_Platonov | oh, navigation bits. |
| 13:24.47 | SpeedEvil | For this, you need to align the sample time to the real-code-phase - this will be done just by changing the doppler. Then internally it'll find the highest bin of the correlator and either record a list of 20 of these per navigation bit - 1000/s, or do the synchronisation and extraction in hardware. |
| 13:25.54 | Dmitry_Platonov | I think syncronisation is software, tracking and extraction - hardware. |
| 13:26.05 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead/Integrators |
| 13:26.16 | SpeedEvil | I think that's probable too. |
| 13:26.49 | rschuster | I am trying om-2007.2 (plain org.oe.dev) and get this when running bitbake <some package>: bitbake classpath |
| 13:26.49 | rschuster | NOTE: Invalid cache found, rebuilding... |
| 13:26.49 | rschuster | ERROR: no files to build |
| 13:26.50 | Dmitry_Platonov | I'd like first to get working coldstart which tracks doppler/code delay. |
| 13:27.10 | rschuster | then there is a python stacktrace with: "ValueError: substring not found" at the end |
| 13:27.20 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - we don't even need to know how to extract the bits for a most hyper-basic solution. |
| 13:27.27 | SpeedEvil | Transit reborn. |
| 13:27.28 | rschuster | this is bitbake 1.8.6 and python 2.4.4 (debian lenny) |
| 13:28.17 | Dmitry_Platonov | symbol rater is not 1Khz, it "code repeating" rate. symbol rate is 100 Hz |
| 13:28.26 | SpeedEvil | 50Hz |
| 13:28.53 | rschuster | my local.conf is the same as for om-2007 (contains: MACHINE = "fic-gta01" DISTRO = "openmoko" ) |
| 13:29.14 | Dmitry_Platonov | no. there are 50 bits/second, but transition can occur every 1/100 second. It's enconding |
| 13:29.46 | *** join/#openmoko nop__ (n=nop@p54A08B8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:29.55 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:29.59 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@p509893da.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:30.58 | SpeedEvil | I thought the navigation message was directly modulated at a rate of 50 bits/second onto the 1Khz PRN sighal. |
| 13:31.29 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right - yes, which can of course happen at 100Hz - if you count both edges. |
| 13:31.30 | rschuster | ok found it. seems like defining BBFILES is mandatory now |
| 13:32.20 | SpeedEvil | But the datarate is 50bits/second, and it's not modulated more complexly. |
| 13:33.23 | Dmitry_Platonov | maybe I'm mistaken GLONASS encoding with GPS. I'll look further. |
| 13:34.10 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 13:37.23 | SpeedEvil | Picture of encoding scheme - m] has joined |
| 13:37.23 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:37.26 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 13:37.40 | SpeedEvil | Picture of encoding scheme - http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gif/signals.gif |
| 13:43.10 | Dmitry_Platonov | SpeedEvil, can you fit REG 0b vs range. I believe when we track, 0b gives us code delay (least significant part of pseudorange) |
| 13:47.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 676 has been created by <laforge> |
| 13:47.02 | cdbot2 | * * dfu-upload on GTA02v1 causes data corruption |
| 13:47.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=676 |
| 13:47.06 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 13:47.59 | Dmitry_Platonov | Speedevil, another consideration: when doing "fine" code/doppler adjustment, integrator spacing is not necessary 1 bin. |
| 13:49.48 | rschuster | what package builds the image for OM-2007.2? |
| 13:50.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | also, during "coarse" adjustment, I believe spacing is 1/2 bin, not 1 bin. Integrator output might be someting like I^2 + Q^2 |
| 13:53.22 | SpeedEvil | I would expect it to be I and Q bins |
| 13:53.31 | SpeedEvil | 1023*2 bins |
| 13:53.44 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.79.146.16) |
| 13:54.21 | rschuster | added some initial build instructions for om-2007.2: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko2007.2#How_to_build |
| 13:54.23 | SpeedEvil | I can try - not at the moment - in a bit though. |
| 13:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=nosdr4g@gentoo/user/xzcvczx) |
| 13:55.24 | SpeedEvil | The signal will appear in two adjacent bins. This gives you the precise phase - well, apart from noise - not just to the nearest bin. |
| 13:55.59 | Dmitry_Platonov | REG 23 results seems too "symmetric" to be I & Q |
| 13:57.25 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-60-149-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 13:57.28 | SpeedEvil | Are there usually two bins with some energy in? |
| 13:58.01 | Dmitry_Platonov | no. It looks for me like "peak" with "shoulders". Something bell-shaped |
| 13:58.28 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. It's possible that may be a second level integrator. |
| 13:59.18 | SpeedEvil | Which is integrating the ouput of the first, at 1Khz, to generate good time resolution. |
| 13:59.41 | Dmitry_Platonov | Ok. I must go and do some Go teaching/tutoring :) |
| 14:00.56 | *** join/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 14:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko LetoT1 (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:04.09 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 14:07.22 | *** join/#openmoko erik (n=erik@gw.sbg.se) |
| 14:07.55 | ewon | http://cgi.ebay.ie/Bluetooth-GPS-Watch-Heart-rate-sensor-OLED-display-NEW_W0QQitemZ110153091799QQihZ001QQcategoryZ31387QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem |
| 14:09.25 | FuzzyCat | is momomakefile building OM2007.2 ? |
| 14:09.27 | FuzzyCat | now |
| 14:14.05 | *** join/#openmoko balthamaisteri (n=balthama@statip-80-95-129-205.kopteri.net) |
| 14:14.26 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:19.34 | SpeedEvil | ewon: now - if it did bluetooth to the OLED display that would be really handy. |
| 14:20.01 | ewon | pity there are no measurements of the thing |
| 14:20.08 | ewon | probably like the old casio gps watch |
| 14:20.12 | ewon | e.g. freakin gigantic |
| 14:20.32 | SpeedEvil | I'm sure there must be electronics modelling agencies. |
| 14:20.32 | ewon | oh, wait |
| 14:20.35 | ewon | 69 X55X23.5(mm) Weight 75g |
| 14:20.42 | SpeedEvil | People with freakishly large or small hands. |
| 14:20.57 | cjb_ie | it's nearly a bloody inch thick. |
| 14:21.01 | SpeedEvil | that's damn near 1/2 the neo weight. |
| 14:21.05 | ewon | lol |
| 14:22.25 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:22.33 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=tsingtao@e181241003.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:23.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[User:Das_nl]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[Wish_List]] [[Hammerhead/Integrators]] [[User:Kuyky]] [[Translation]] [[Template:Languages]] [[Main_Page/pt]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[Neo1973/de]] and other changes |
| 14:26.31 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D849D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 14:42.21 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.205.8) |
| 14:43.21 | mave_pan | Bye all |
| 14:45.38 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 14:51.40 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *ping* |
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| 15:06.57 | SpeedEvil | ong |
| 15:06.58 | *** part/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 15:07.04 | SpeedEvil | s/o/po/ |
| 15:07.47 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 15:09.48 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@fm92wl-89-31-10-134.isp.mcnet.cz) |
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| 15:13.27 | *** part/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@n128-227-139-194.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 15:19.11 | thomasg | after the neo run out of power - how long do I have to charge until it can be turned on again? |
| 15:19.49 | Kero | mm, "in transit for delivery", should I go home and wait for the UPS guy? *ponders* |
| 15:20.44 | daxxar | Mine is in Germany, whoop whoop. |
| 15:20.56 | daxxar | Only a few country borders left, now |
| 15:21.15 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A9A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178086193.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:22.55 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181222091.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:24.56 | thomasg | ok, its 10 minutes :) |
| 15:26.38 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 15:26.40 | happycube | got a cpufreq kernel but i lose access to the flash - it's definitely not setting everything up yet |
| 15:27.55 | happycube | gonna try to make it work tonight :) |
| 15:30.06 | thomasg | happycube, your kernel supports jffs2? |
| 15:30.25 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 15:30.32 | SpeedEvil | happycube: when you vary freq? |
| 15:30.37 | SpeedEvil | happycube: or anytime? |
| 15:30.43 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B393CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:31.35 | xzcvczx | daxxar: mine is hopefully arriving in my country within the next couple of hhours |
| 15:31.57 | xzcvczx | unfortunately its 3:30am in the morning so wont be delivered til tomrorow |
| 15:32.41 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:32.57 | SpeedEvil | bash.ko |
| 15:32.57 | rtp | happycube: there's no cpufreq support for s3c24xx in the vanilla kernel. I really wonder how you managed to get it :) |
| 15:33.06 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-84-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:33.09 | SpeedEvil | IIRC happycube is playing. |
| 15:33.21 | SpeedEvil | bash.ko, and bashscript.ko |
| 15:33.22 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B393CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:33.31 | SpeedEvil | builtin to kernel optional. |
| 15:36.01 | Vegar | putting bash into the kernel? |
| 15:36.20 | daxxar | xzcvczx: Hehe, darn. :-) |
| 15:37.25 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: yes. It was a silly idea. |
| 15:37.34 | Vegar | heh |
| 15:37.37 | daxxar | You'd need all the other userspace binaries in kernel mode too. ;-P |
| 15:37.41 | daxxar | To make it useful. |
| 15:37.44 | Vegar | you could write drivers in bash |
| 15:37.47 | SpeedEvil | Basically to eliminate the need for a rootfs. |
| 15:37.49 | daxxar | Auch |
| 15:38.10 | mwester | busybox.ko |
| 15:38.16 | SpeedEvil | Sort of like OpenFirmware - but in bash. |
| 15:38.33 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 15:39.18 | daxxar | Hehe |
| 15:40.49 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178212015.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:40.58 | woglinde | hi ph5 |
| 15:41.21 | pH5 | hej woglinde |
| 15:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko CathodioN (n=cathodio@h8441208108.dsl.speedlinq.nl) |
| 15:42.57 | happycube | rtp - i found a cpufreq patch and i updated it to 2.6.21 |
| 15:43.01 | CathodioN | hey all |
| 15:43.51 | happycube | speedevil - check out busybox? that fits pretty nicely in an initrd/initramfs |
| 15:44.28 | happycube | time to work :P |
| 15:44.47 | rtp | happycube: weird. what's the url ? |
| 15:46.14 | *** join/#openmoko gw280 (n=george@vm.gwright.org.uk) |
| 15:46.20 | gw280 | how do I determine whether this openmoko is P0 or P1? |
| 15:46.43 | *** join/#openmoko ashnazg (n=ashnazg@38-99-98-18.v101.sjc.neovanglist.net) |
| 15:46.46 | LarstiQ | gw280: which one? |
| 15:46.48 | drath | gw280: when did you get it? |
| 15:46.50 | mjr | neo, not moko |
| 15:46.54 | mjr | and if you bought it, it's p1 |
| 15:47.00 | gw280 | drath: it's alp's |
| 15:47.05 | gw280 | so I'm not sure |
| 15:47.18 | pH5 | gw280: look at the sticker gta01bv3 is p0, bv4 is p1 |
| 15:47.22 | *** part/#openmoko CathodioN (n=cathodio@h8441208108.dsl.speedlinq.nl) |
| 15:47.48 | gw280 | right, it's a P1 |
| 15:49.09 | SpeedEvil | happycube: yes - I know. For a while when I had an unreliable hard disk, I had a shell + 'stuff' sitting in a ramfs. |
| 15:49.39 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 15:49.44 | gw280 | this may seem like a silly question, but where's the AUX button? |
| 15:50.07 | pH5 | top left |
| 15:50.12 | SpeedEvil | IIRC on a black/silver phone it is hidden |
| 15:50.19 | SpeedEvil | and looks like an IRDA sensor |
| 15:50.32 | gw280 | yes, I see it |
| 15:50.33 | gw280 | thanks |
| 15:50.34 | SpeedEvil | On the white/orange it's quite visible |
| 15:50.37 | gw280 | I thought it was an IrDA port! |
| 15:50.40 | mjr | which, to be clear, it isn't |
| 15:50.50 | *** join/#openmoko CathodioN (n=cathodio@h8441208108.dsl.speedlinq.nl) |
| 15:51.12 | mjr | and good riddance to IrDA |
| 15:51.20 | CathodioN | hey all |
| 15:51.33 | SpeedEvil | Nothing wrong with IRDA - if it was possibly done. |
| 15:51.37 | CathodioN | Lot's of ppl in this channel |
| 15:51.40 | SpeedEvil | reasonably done. |
| 15:51.43 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 15:51.50 | SpeedEvil | Some of them are bots. |
| 15:51.54 | CathodioN | k |
| 15:51.58 | juri_ | some of them are still awaiting their neos. :) |
| 15:52.03 | Fatal | AYE |
| 15:52.04 | Fatal | :D |
| 15:52.05 | CathodioN | around 1000 registered user on the site now |
| 15:52.17 | SpeedEvil | on what site? |
| 15:52.23 | CathodioN | openmoko.org |
| 15:52.27 | CathodioN | projects |
| 15:52.31 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 15:52.41 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548A14A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:54.20 | *** join/#openmoko dfoelber (n=dfoelber@beavis.aws.com) |
| 15:55.14 | *** join/#openmoko ddwarf (n=ddwarf@86.69.249.100) |
| 15:56.03 | Hadaka | whee, phone arrived, attempting to flash |
| 15:56.46 | mjr | Hmh, my usbnet problems were probably the phone going into sleep. At an inappropriate time. |
| 15:56.55 | Sup3rkiddo | Hadaka, have fun mate |
| 15:57.00 | thomasg | hm, when I'm in the AT command interpreter (using cu as terminal emulator), how can I stop it? |
| 15:57.07 | mjr | seems to be related to not having gui apps due to crashes and whatnot |
| 15:57.14 | SpeedEvil | ctrl-d? |
| 15:57.21 | thomasg | doesn't work |
| 15:57.35 | thomasg | ctrl-c won't, too |
| 15:57.43 | LarstiQ | thomasg: ctrl-\ ? |
| 15:57.57 | thomasg | doesn't work |
| 15:59.05 | rushforth | thomasg: ssh to another shell, killall cu |
| 15:59.29 | thomasg | seems that's the only possibility |
| 15:59.33 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548A14A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:59.45 | thomasg | but there should be another way, shouldn't it? cu still reacts |
| 15:59.53 | rushforth | imo, libgsmd-tool -m atcmd is better than cu (and works with ctrl-c) |
| 16:00.18 | mjr | if gsmd works ;) |
| 16:00.25 | rushforth | indeed :) |
| 16:01.28 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 16:02.00 | happycube | rtp - i just googled "cpufreq s3c2410" |
| 16:02.01 | pH5 | cu can be terminated with "~." |
| 16:02.12 | Elrond | pH5! |
| 16:02.17 | pH5 | hej Elrond |
| 16:02.42 | rushforth | "aha" |
| 16:03.31 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 16:03.49 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 16:04.20 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 16:04.36 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 16:04.39 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@032-318-056.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 16:05.06 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@bbclaptop.student.umd.edu) |
| 16:05.14 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck_ (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:05.41 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - you saw my query? |
| 16:06.29 | SpeedEvil | I just saw ping |
| 16:06.32 | rtp | happycube: thx, found it. fyi, even the maintainer of s3c24xx linux port in not aware of this so if you have troubles, which will probably happen, you'll be on your own |
| 16:06.34 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 16:06.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2599 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/ (2 files in 2 dirs): |
| 16:06.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * add PCF50633 and GLAMO support to make this kernel work on GTA02 |
| 16:06.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * bump mokoversion to moko11 |
| 16:06.50 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:08.47 | happycube | rtp - yeah |
| 16:08.58 | happycube | there's a lot to fix ;) |
| 16:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck__ (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:10.10 | thomasg | yeah, he found the correct cellid :) |
| 16:10.17 | thomasg | will see if I get it to dial now |
| 16:12.09 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 16:12.21 | thomasg | k, calling works :) |
| 16:12.38 | thomasg | but my nokia doesn't show a "standard" incoming call, it shows a dat.-call |
| 16:14.29 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 16:15.16 | thomasg | hm, I want to have the gentoo-patches for sysVinit on the neo |
| 16:15.29 | don-o | woahh. a gta02 mention. i hope mokoninja comes up with some good video. |
| 16:16.31 | thomasg | gsmd tends to crash :) |
| 16:16.46 | zecke | thomasg: scp them |
| 16:17.24 | thomasg | would be no prob if I'd get my openmoko buildsystem running :) |
| 16:17.37 | zecke | ah you want to apply them? :) |
| 16:17.44 | thomasg | well, I'd test it :) |
| 16:18.26 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck__ (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:18.53 | thomasg | gentoo has a nive advanced sysVinit with parallel bootup (optional), but the /etc/init.d/... status is very useful :) the standard [start|stop|restart] isn't really great |
| 16:19.25 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423___ (n=chatzill@A700d.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 16:19.47 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 16:20.08 | *** part/#openmoko ashnazg (n=ashnazg@38-99-98-18.v101.sjc.neovanglist.net) |
| 16:21.32 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host217-42-221-157.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:23.17 | *** join/#openmoko cheesy (n=daniel@pd95b5e66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:24.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Sean]] [[Trademark_Policy]] [[Advanced_End-user/nl]] [[Talk:Trademark_Policy]] [[Basic_End-user/nl]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Server:AGPS]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[P1_Owners]] [[FAQ/fr]] [[User:Gadfly/Phase1_Specs]] |
| 16:28.43 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 16:29.32 | gw280 | so. how do you get a neo1973 to make a phone call? :) |
| 16:29.56 | jaebird | i'm getting: Netreg registration denied from libgsmd-tool |
| 16:30.11 | jaebird | tried two different sim cards |
| 16:30.45 | jaebird | both are old cingular 64k smartcard, but one has a blue back that says 3gs or something |
| 16:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 16:32.54 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@p509893da.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:32.57 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 16:33.56 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 16:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host217-42-221-157.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:37.14 | don-o | http://youtube.com/user/mokoNinja |
| 16:37.35 | don-o | "Sneak Preview! Phone Call" has a new UI. i assume its the "new UI" thats been mentioned here before. |
| 16:37.38 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 16:38.17 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:39.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2600 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/defconfig-2.6.22.1-fic-gta01: |
| 16:39.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * enable Glamo3362 framebuffer driver for 2.6.22.1 kernel defconfig |
| 16:39.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * bump revision to moko11 |
| 16:48.22 | dcordes | how is the merge with OE going on? |
| 16:49.39 | woglinde | dcordes fine it seems |
| 16:49.51 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D849D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:50.01 | woglinde | mickeyl done something |
| 16:50.04 | thomasg | don-o, you're right, thats the new UI |
| 16:50.13 | thomasg | I was testing it on my brandnew neo yesterday |
| 16:50.27 | don-o | thomasg: cool. |
| 16:50.46 | thomasg | well, it's still very basic, and my image wasn't as polished as the one in the video :) |
| 16:51.26 | dando- | Do you guys like working with the automake tools or do you like the bsd style way. (just a makefile)? |
| 16:51.28 | don-o | i am so excited about custom cases. |
| 16:52.11 | thomasg | the standardcase is fantastic, looks good and the build quality is far above nokia's |
| 16:52.32 | thomasg | so custom cases are fine, but I don't need one, yet |
| 16:52.44 | don-o | i want to place an order but i would like to know if there are units left. |
| 16:52.47 | mickeyl | the major thing i don't like is the recessed ts |
| 16:52.56 | mickeyl | makes it hard to touch the edges |
| 16:52.59 | mickeyl | corners, even |
| 16:53.16 | xzcvczx | wow i hope the phone boots faster than the qemu emulator |
| 16:53.27 | mickeyl | hardly |
| 16:53.41 | mickeyl | sysinit isn't exactly good for embedded systems |
| 16:53.47 | mickeyl | going upstream eventually |
| 16:53.51 | mickeyl | upstart, even |
| 16:53.58 | xzcvczx | :o |
| 16:54.03 | happycube | a reset button would be nice for phase 1 ;) |
| 16:54.25 | woglinde | happycube? |
| 16:54.32 | happycube | ya? |
| 16:54.32 | woglinde | hardware or software? |
| 16:54.35 | happycube | hardware |
| 16:54.42 | xzcvczx | mickeyl: my 486 use to boot faster than this |
| 16:54.43 | woglinde | than you mean phase2 |
| 16:54.44 | happycube | for when holding down the power button for 5 seconds just dosen't work |
| 16:54.49 | don-o | mickeyl: are you doing development on P2 hardware? |
| 16:54.50 | woglinde | p1 is out |
| 16:54.53 | happycube | *would have been nice, then |
| 16:54.54 | dando- | http://www.embeddedarm.com/epc/ts7800-spec-h.htm <--- how do those guys get a bootime < 2 s? |
| 16:55.13 | woglinde | happycube ah now I understand you |
| 16:55.24 | mickeyl | don-o: not yet. i have p2 hardware laying around here, but no time yet. first priority is getting the software for p1 in a reasonable state |
| 16:55.25 | happycube | i'm worried that i'll wear out the battery contacts... might have to bust it open and wire up the debug board for cpufreq testing |
| 16:55.35 | don-o | mickeyl: i see. |
| 16:56.07 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 16:56.40 | mickeyl | dando-: well, "boots linux" is probably just the time to launch userland. the Neo1973 does that in 3 seconds as well |
| 16:57.03 | woglinde | +g* |
| 16:57.03 | mickeyl | however from userland to UI takes ages |
| 16:57.06 | mickeyl | yet |
| 16:57.08 | woglinde | udev with shellscripts |
| 16:57.17 | woglinde | wont let it be fast |
| 16:57.26 | dando- | mickeyl: thats a shellaccess! no daemon up ! |
| 16:57.48 | woglinde | dando *g* |
| 16:57.59 | woglinde | init /bin/sh |
| 16:58.10 | dando- | mickeyl: dont i know you from openzaurus? |
| 16:58.41 | mickeyl | dando-: possible. I mainained OpenZaurus for two years |
| 16:58.43 | *** join/#openmoko dt1 (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 16:58.45 | xzcvczx | mickeyl: i dont know whether its just my emulator running slowly but are we talking about maybe 4mins to boot |
| 16:58.46 | mickeyl | maintained, even |
| 16:59.11 | dando- | mickeyl: okay |
| 16:59.13 | don-o | xzcvczx: i get the same boot time on my emulator |
| 16:59.22 | mickeyl | xzcvczx: 4 might be a bit over the top |
| 16:59.41 | xzcvczx | mickeyl: ah ok it may just be i have make openmoko-devel-image running |
| 17:00.07 | Kensan | xzcvczx: it's more like 2 mins 10ish seconds. |
| 17:00.09 | don-o | reason #43 why i like the neo1973 over the iPhone: no "sleep/wake" button needed |
| 17:00.39 | happycube | ok reading over the disassembly instructions - removing the top case is enough to get enough access to the debug port right? |
| 17:02.16 | dando- | i guess starting the x-server takes a lot of time. |
| 17:02.19 | Elrond | mickey|dinner - I like sysvinit. And it doesn't really hurt currently. |
| 17:03.07 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:04.09 | dando- | an experience i made with another embedded project. dont start applikation during x-server startup. |
| 17:04.58 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 17:05.04 | dando- | the the query of the applikation slows down the startup |
| 17:06.05 | Elrond | Ahh, that might be a problem on the neo. ;) |
| 17:06.34 | dando- | brings about 15 sec |
| 17:06.42 | dando- | boottime |
| 17:07.33 | Elrond | dando- Ahh... |
| 17:08.07 | Elrond | Anyway. I'm getting home now. |
| 17:08.17 | dando- | But i dont know what startscipt lookes like in OpenMoko |
| 17:08.37 | Hadaka | funny, this thing feels faster than N770, even in shell - even though the CPU is supposed to be slower, all in all |
| 17:08.50 | freskog | Hi everyone ... |
| 17:09.15 | dando- | N770 ? |
| 17:09.20 | ewon | nokia tablet thing |
| 17:09.24 | freskog | One really silly question ... does anyone know if there are any podcasts focused on openmoko/neo*'s ? |
| 17:09.28 | dando- | oh ok |
| 17:09.38 | ewon | freskog: some stuff on youtube |
| 17:10.12 | Kensan | freskog: german podcast with LaF0rge: http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cre042.html |
| 17:10.59 | dando- | http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cre042.html <-- good one |
| 17:11.11 | dando- | but german language |
| 17:11.25 | xzcvczx | up to configuring x11-c-locale.... how much further have i got to go |
| 17:11.38 | don-o | freskog: http://youtube.com/user/mokoNinja |
| 17:14.09 | *** join/#openmoko noon (n=noon@p57B25CA9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:14.13 | noon | hello |
| 17:15.07 | thomasg | when I do a call via the ATD command, the reciepient gets no "normal" voicecall, he gets a data-call. why that? |
| 17:15.14 | freskog | thanks all! |
| 17:15.25 | freskog | (to bad many german isn't better :) |
| 17:21.27 | Hadaka | hey guys, is the microSD access supposed to work flawlessly? |
| 17:25.16 | Hadaka | mjahas |
| 17:25.32 | balthamaisteri | that is bigger than i thought i would be, thats not bad thing i quess |
| 17:26.51 | mjr | since Hadaka asked here as well, some of my microsd problem experiences among other things here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/device-owners/2007-August/000035.html (I've since resolved the usbnet thing) |
| 17:29.04 | Writchie | thomasg: how are you dialing the call? |
| 17:29.15 | *** join/#openmoko nm (n=nm@222.252.70.177) |
| 17:29.23 | *** join/#openmoko ddwarf (n=ddwarf@86.69.249.7) |
| 17:29.46 | Hadaka | mjr: siis ne resetit? joo, mulla näky samaa |
| 17:29.53 | Hadaka | hups |
| 17:30.03 | thomasg | Writchie, using ATD |
| 17:30.21 | Writchie | did you set the call mode with AT+CMOD=0 |
| 17:30.25 | thomasg | no |
| 17:30.30 | thomasg | thats what I was looking for :) |
| 17:30.31 | thomasg | thanks |
| 17:30.44 | Writchie | it somehow got in the wrong mode |
| 17:31.03 | thomasg | hm, no, it's still the wrong mode |
| 17:31.07 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 17:31.33 | *** part/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 17:32.52 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:33.40 | happycube | hadaka - humm... perhaps the framebuffer access is faster? |
| 17:33.53 | Writchie | thomasg: what do ya get from AT+CMOD=? |
| 17:34.19 | thomasg | only the standard: RSTR=`OK' |
| 17:34.27 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 17:34.40 | thomasg | I should say that I use haralds libgsm-tool |
| 17:34.42 | Writchie | you should be getting a list of supported modes |
| 17:34.54 | Hadaka | happycube: could be |
| 17:35.18 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:35.29 | Writchie | you're not in shell mode but at command passthru right? |
| 17:36.03 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-132-034.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:36.12 | Writchie | of coure if you get RSTR='OK' |
| 17:36.14 | thomasg | I'm connected over usb_ethernet_emulation and ssh and I use libgsm-tool |
| 17:36.21 | Writchie | s/coure/course |
| 17:36.47 | Writchie | AT+CMOD=? should returns something like (0-3) |
| 17:37.12 | Writchie | have you used this SIM card on voice calls in past? |
| 17:38.07 | jaebird | +CME ERROR: 32' == Network not allowed, emergency calls only |
| 17:38.29 | jaebird | is this the same error everyone with AT&T 3G sim cards are seeing? |
| 17:38.44 | mwester | I think that's it. |
| 17:39.02 | jaebird | dang...my sim cards are old cingular |
| 17:39.14 | jaebird | they aren't even 3G |
| 17:39.22 | jaebird | at least the plastic doesn't say it |
| 17:41.12 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 17:41.14 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 17:41.30 | Shoragan | f'LaF0rge, about the tslib, the horizontal values are good |
| 17:41.52 | Shoragan | but there is a *lot* of noise on the vertical value |
| 17:42.05 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-a0a4f126c9cc106c) |
| 17:43.54 | jaebird | can we put the CMS and CME error codes on the wiki? |
| 17:44.07 | jaebird | or is there some copyright issues with it |
| 17:45.15 | jaebird | it would be nice to have a table with the code and description without having to google it every time |
| 17:46.10 | Stephmw | 'error codes'... doesn't that imply interface? |
| 17:47.28 | *** join/#openmoko tesmar (n=tyleresm@pool-72-82-66-185.nrflva.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:47.34 | *** part/#openmoko tesmar (n=tyleresm@pool-72-82-66-185.nrflva.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:48.20 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 17:48.21 | jaebird | maybe |
| 17:49.41 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@gprs-ggsn6-nat.mobil.telenor.no) |
| 17:50.10 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 17:53.10 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 17:53.35 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor__ (n=nimron@i59F6300C.versanet.de) |
| 17:54.01 | mbuf | if a company sponsors the Neo1973, can we put the company logo in the project (GPLed) page, something like "Sponsored by yadda" in projects.openmoko.org? |
| 17:54.12 | *** join/#openmoko atrus123 (n=atrus123@74-128-175-170.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 17:55.02 | thomasg | Writchie, yes, AT+CMOD returns (0-3) |
| 17:55.02 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-209-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:55.18 | thomasg | Writchie, and yes, I used the sim-card for years |
| 17:55.31 | Writchie | then do AT+CMOD=0 |
| 17:55.39 | thomasg | at moment I have call-forwarding for the card activted, but this shouldn't matter for calling out |
| 17:55.41 | Writchie | then AT+CMOD? |
| 17:56.11 | Writchie | call-forwarded should not matter |
| 17:56.31 | thomasg | AT+CMOD? returns: +CMOD: 0 |
| 17:56.39 | *** join/#openmoko accumulator (n=accu@82-170-119-175.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl) |
| 17:56.51 | Writchie | then next ATDT command should originate a voice only call |
| 17:57.32 | thomasg | even ATDT does a data call |
| 17:57.58 | Writchie | how are you determining that it is a data call? |
| 17:58.21 | thomasg | its a serviceprovider number on the reciepients display, and the nokia says: data call |
| 17:58.46 | Writchie | strange |
| 17:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host171-122-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:59.12 | Writchie | is the number you are dialing perhaps configured for data only |
| 17:59.13 | *** join/#openmoko oskude (n=osku@dslb-084-059-027-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:59.16 | thomasg | ok, have no time now, will take a look at this later. thanks for your help, I may come back to you again :) |
| 17:59.21 | *** join/#openmoko Husare (n=AD@stgt-590ea3ee.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:59.23 | Writchie | ok |
| 17:59.24 | thomasg | no, it isn't |
| 18:00.03 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423____ (n=chatzill@A71e0.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 18:02.26 | jaebird | AT+CIMI returns error |
| 18:03.11 | jaebird | CME Error 13: sim failure |
| 18:05.36 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 18:05.41 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 18:06.29 | Shoragan | thomasg, add a ; after the dail command |
| 18:07.46 | jaebird | is there a wiki page for SIM card issues? |
| 18:08.04 | jaebird | the ml has a thread, but it would be good to capture the info |
| 18:08.10 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-132-034.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:08.24 | jaebird | there is some weirdness going on with my neo |
| 18:08.45 | calamous1_ | Does anyone here use any osciliscopes? |
| 18:09.13 | calamous1_ | jaebird: bug #666 |
| 18:09.58 | calamous1_ | I emailed Harald 2 days ago (of course he already know about it cause hes the man) but he told me that there is nothing he can do and TI must look into it |
| 18:10.30 | calamous1_ | lol. I hope at&t didn't bribe TI to mess it up (conspiracy theory) |
| 18:10.36 | mwester | Appropriate bug number, given the provider in question... |
| 18:11.53 | calamous1_ | I'm still disipointed form the FCC auction rules |
| 18:12.06 | calamous1_ | Thats MY spectrum as a citizen of the US |
| 18:12.24 | mwester | Yep. And given away in quite the wrong manner. |
| 18:12.32 | calamous1_ | Are you american? |
| 18:12.34 | jgm | Does anyone know how to convince bitbake to pull files from svn rather than trying to get them from a tarball? |
| 18:12.52 | calamous1_ | mwester: If you are thats YOUR spectrum |
| 18:12.55 | noiddd | 'lo |
| 18:13.03 | mwester | edit the .bb file in the recipe, jgm |
| 18:13.13 | noiddd | calamous1_: Yes, I have an osciliscope in my lab at home |
| 18:13.25 | calamous1_ | noiddd: Does it interface with your comp? |
| 18:13.32 | mwester | There should be a SRC_URI or similar that specifies where to get the files. |
| 18:13.46 | calamous1_ | noiddd: I want to buy a scope but I'm not sure what to get. I want a reasonable one but I don't want to spend a fortune |
| 18:13.57 | jgm | Yep so at current it looks like this: SRC_URI = "svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/extd;module=trunk;proto=http" |
| 18:14.00 | noiddd | No, I have an old HP scope |
| 18:14.03 | calamous1_ | noiddd: I would be doing mostly digital stuff. I need to moniter SPI and stuff |
| 18:14.04 | noiddd | EBay special ;_) |
| 18:14.13 | noiddd | ah, then i'm not the right person to ask. |
| 18:14.17 | jgm | But bitbake is still attempting to do a package-based download from the looks of things |
| 18:14.31 | noiddd | Morg might know - lemme find morg for you |
| 18:14.40 | calamous1_ | cool ty |
| 18:14.54 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-76-231-227-122.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:19.43 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 18:21.05 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host217-42-221-157.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:22.50 | jaebird | added my comments to bug#666 |
| 18:23.10 | jaebird | i wonder how long ti will take to answer fic and provide a firmware update for it |
| 18:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-124-29.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko dfoelber_ (n=dfoelber@beavis.aws.com) |
| 18:23.49 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 18:23.52 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 18:24.25 | noiddd | are we sure its not sim safe or whatever its called? |
| 18:24.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hear_Me_FIC]] [[Unresolved_Hardware_Questions]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 18:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 18:24.56 | SpeedEvil | I'd imagine - possibly - if it's really a common Calypso issue, that TI would want to get it patched quite fast. |
| 18:25.13 | jaebird | i'd hope so |
| 18:25.14 | Writchie | methinks speedevil is correct |
| 18:25.55 | mjr | SpeedEvil, *nod* |
| 18:26.41 | jaebird | i do remember one of my old sonyericison phones having trouble with the 64Ksmartchip sim |
| 18:26.53 | jaebird | so maybe they added something like that as early as that |
| 18:27.02 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CEFBF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:27.04 | Kensan | FYI: second batch containing orange Neo's is bound to arrive within 24 hrs in the US. |
| 18:27.23 | LarstiQ | Kensan: ooh |
| 18:27.32 | LarstiQ | Kensan: now I just need them shipped to the eu ;) |
| 18:27.37 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: is this simply the next 500 of the first production run? |
| 18:27.57 | *** join/#openmoko W00tomgbb (n=omq@a89-182-31-1.net-htp.de) |
| 18:27.59 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: When can I tell someone they can buy one, and it'll ship soon? |
| 18:28.18 | LarstiQ | SpeedEvil: meh, ime hardware vendors are very bad at speedy updates |
| 18:28.28 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: it seems so. It's the "second batch" referencend in this mail: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007765.html |
| 18:28.55 | LarstiQ | Kensan: how did you acquire this information? |
| 18:29.13 | *** join/#openmoko moo^ (n=sexycows@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 18:29.41 | SpeedEvil | LarstiQ: true |
| 18:30.00 | Kensan | LarstiQ: I inquired about the status of my order (#1872) and the email I got said, that "my phone" would arrive at the shipping port in the US within 24 hrs. |
| 18:30.30 | LarstiQ | Kensan: cool |
| 18:32.39 | happycube | nice |
| 18:32.46 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 18:33.01 | Kensan | btw, I got an answer mail within 18 mins. Hope they speed up the rest of the process too :) |
| 18:34.25 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm4-3-0-240.802.cz) |
| 18:36.59 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host81-159-209-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:37.14 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: stats |
| 18:37.14 | mokobot | Since Wed Aug 1 18:36:44 2007, there have been 0 modifications, 0 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 0 commands. I have been awake for 30s this session, and currently reference 31 factoids. I'm using about 48844 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 0.38/0.03 child 0/0 |
| 18:37.22 | Writchie | sheeeeeet t-mobile raised their data plan to $30/month |
| 18:37.35 | noiddd | no tmobile in my area :-( |
| 18:38.02 | xzcvczx | Writchie: dont complain..... we pay $8USD per meg of download here |
| 18:38.24 | mjr | well that's pretty insane |
| 18:38.28 | SpeedEvil | Where ar eyou X? |
| 18:38.41 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: nz |
| 18:38.46 | SpeedEvil | ow |
| 18:38.49 | xzcvczx | yeah |
| 18:39.12 | SpeedEvil | No 'data plan's? |
| 18:39.16 | mjr | hmh, an irc friend lives there, she's got a hsdpa plan that didn't sound _that_ bad... |
| 18:40.11 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: yeah but they are a fair bit anyway |
| 18:42.23 | xzcvczx | dammit i wish nz customs would get off their doughnut ridden butts and process this shipment already |
| 18:42.32 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 18:42.44 | SpeedEvil | Here its seems to work out at around $2/day. |
| 18:43.03 | SpeedEvil | Either for the cheapest monthly plan, or PAYG, bought one day at a time. |
| 18:43.34 | SpeedEvil | (UK) |
| 18:43.51 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: is that unlimited usage? |
| 18:43.51 | SpeedEvil | With a 1G/40M cap that is |
| 18:44.04 | xzcvczx | yeah our monthly caps are like 200mb |
| 18:44.06 | xzcvczx | if that |
| 18:44.13 | SpeedEvil | Nope, but 30M/day isn't _too_ bad. |
| 18:44.37 | mjr | (Again, for comparison, 10 euros per month, bw cap of 128k, non-issue with gprs) |
| 18:44.50 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 18:45.06 | mjr | I do hear that nowadays you can get a 384k bw cap for that, but doesn't matter to me |
| 18:45.24 | mjr | and yeah, 30M per day is reasonable |
| 18:45.36 | sandos | sweden has "unlimited" plans now, for decent prices. Im glad. I will have to sign up soon, theyre complaining thats it too cheap and theyre going to have to build more capacity soon ... and have to up the prices |
| 18:46.07 | noiddd | A friend of mine and her husband are truck drivers. They do driving shifts. One drives, the other plays Everquest as they drive across the country. |
| 18:46.08 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 18:46.14 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: for 3gig cap over a month is $59.95USD per month |
| 18:46.22 | noiddd | They're using Verizon (so cdma) |
| 18:46.24 | LarstiQ | noiddd: heh |
| 18:46.35 | noiddd | thats about $65 pcm I think for unlimited |
| 18:46.48 | sandos | cheapest plans are ~11euro a month, but thats only for 12 monts, then its more like 22 euro |
| 18:47.58 | xzcvczx | Stephmw: java is client dependent, not server dependent |
| 18:48.15 | Stephmw | xzcvczx: Java on the server, for you know... server apps :) |
| 18:48.25 | atrus123 | jsp ftw |
| 18:48.25 | xzcvczx | well thats not hava |
| 18:48.27 | xzcvczx | java |
| 18:48.36 | Stephmw | since when? |
| 18:48.40 | xzcvczx | its jsp |
| 18:48.47 | atrus123 | jsp is still java |
| 18:48.58 | Stephmw | and jsp isn't the end all of java dev on a server |
| 18:49.05 | don-o | jsp is all kinds of java |
| 18:49.17 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 18:49.23 | xzcvczx | what do 99% of people talk about when they use java in context of web |
| 18:49.24 | don-o | java died on the client side in 1999 |
| 18:49.34 | don-o | xzcvczx: java application servers. |
| 18:49.36 | Stephmw | xzcvczx: J2EE these days, doesn't involve jsp |
| 18:49.50 | Stephmw | don-o: agreed, for desktops anyway |
| 18:50.04 | thomasg | Shoragan, thank you!!!!! |
| 18:50.19 | Stephmw | xzcvczx: go to bed! :) |
| 18:50.20 | thomasg | the ; helps :) |
| 18:50.49 | don-o | anyone looked at the first 4 bytes of a java class file? kind of funny. |
| 18:50.51 | xzcvczx | Stephmw: then i will miss my phone arriving and will go awol |
| 18:51.10 | xzcvczx | don-o: why what is it? |
| 18:51.28 | Stephmw | CAFEBABE |
| 18:51.33 | xzcvczx | ah lol |
| 18:51.44 | xzcvczx | the ppc one is pretty funny as well |
| 18:51.49 | don-o | $ xxd javaversion.class |
| 18:51.49 | don-o | 0000000: cafe babe 0003 002d 0021 0a00 0700 1009 .......-.!...... |
| 18:51.50 | xzcvczx | i think its the ppc one anyway |
| 18:52.48 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484C3AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:54.34 | thomasg | what alsa-statefile is for normal calling? capturehandset? |
| 18:55.06 | mbuf | libgsmd is tightly coupled with the GSM operation for the Neo1973 GSM chipset? |
| 18:55.29 | don-o | mbuf: gsmd is generic. you give it a serial port. |
| 18:55.42 | don-o | bah GPS sorry |
| 18:55.46 | don-o | i always mix those up. |
| 18:55.47 | mbuf | don-o, ok |
| 18:57.24 | mbuf | what do you folks use for code cross-referencing? maybe we should have some doxygen or some documentation report run on the source code to view the data structures, functions? |
| 18:57.36 | *** join/#openmoko daroou (n=bja@c83-250-170-184.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:57.53 | mbuf | don-o, but, libgsmd is for gsm, not GPS? |
| 18:57.56 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 18:58.18 | thomasg | yeah, phone works, I did my first call now! :) |
| 18:58.24 | Rince | ;-) |
| 18:59.09 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 18:59.11 | thomasg | at moment I'm using the AT commands and I'm wondering why the dialer won't work |
| 18:59.42 | mjr | thomasg, probably you just tried the dialer at a bad time and the cli tool at a good time ;] |
| 18:59.49 | thomasg | hehe |
| 19:00.02 | *** join/#openmoko ich_ (n=ich@88.134.98.160) |
| 19:00.06 | thomasg | for normal I like cli apps, but on a phone it's a bit - erm - gay :) |
| 19:01.09 | florian | hi zecke |
| 19:01.39 | zecke | ho |
| 19:01.55 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:02.24 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:03.01 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:03.39 | compbrain | UPS misrouted my neo, I've got to hop on a bus to get it in a little while |
| 19:04.03 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 19:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^ (n=user@r201-221-37-241.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 19:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-064-120-188.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:06.41 | thomasg | hm, the gsmhandset.state isn't really great. it's not loud, but I'm getting acoustic feedback |
| 19:06.56 | jaebird | what are people using to play their ogg files? |
| 19:07.08 | thomasg | on the pc or on the neo? |
| 19:07.15 | jaebird | on their neo |
| 19:07.20 | jaebird | sorry :) |
| 19:07.27 | thomasg | well, at moment oggplay should be the best thing |
| 19:07.43 | thomasg | or no - thats not the name |
| 19:07.47 | thomasg | but it's similar :) |
| 19:07.53 | thomasg | ogg123 |
| 19:08.08 | jaebird | okey |
| 19:08.20 | thomasg | its commandline only |
| 19:08.31 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:08.40 | jaebird | how do i adjust vol |
| 19:08.45 | thomasg | using alsamixer e.g. |
| 19:08.57 | thomasg | and on ogg123 maybe with mplayer like commands on 9 and 0 |
| 19:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko Blueraid (n=andreas@p5480589E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:10.36 | jaebird | sweet...jammin |
| 19:10.55 | thomasg | I only tested madplay |
| 19:11.12 | thomasg | the speakers are not really great, but should be ok for doing handsfree calls |
| 19:11.24 | jaebird | at least as good as my n800 |
| 19:11.30 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-84-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 19:12.08 | thomasg | I listend to Pixies and it was ok |
| 19:12.30 | thomasg | would'nt change it against my iAudio X5 and the westone plugs, but ok :) |
| 19:12.31 | jaebird | top says ogg123 is using 85% cpue |
| 19:12.42 | thomasg | hm, maybe ogg123 is crap :) |
| 19:13.01 | jaebird | :) |
| 19:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-064-120-188.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:13.05 | thomasg | was the smalles app that came into my mind |
| 19:13.18 | jaebird | is it integer based? |
| 19:13.18 | thomasg | hope to see mpd on my neo in future :) |
| 19:13.27 | thomasg | don't know |
| 19:13.30 | jaebird | yeah mpd would be nice |
| 19:13.50 | jaebird | i think a "canola" type interface would be cool for a media player on the neo |
| 19:13.59 | zedstar | just got my neo and flashed and could make calls/receive but no audio....couldnt spot anything on the wiki about this? any pointers? |
| 19:14.21 | thomasg | zedstar: thats easy |
| 19:14.24 | thomasg | just load the settings |
| 19:14.30 | Writchie | thomasg: only gsmheadset.state works |
| 19:14.40 | mjr | I think ogg123 per default uses floating point, dunno how it's compiled on the flash; there is the fixed point vorbis decoder lib too... |
| 19:14.44 | thomasg | alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state (works for me, writchie) restore |
| 19:14.59 | Writchie | with or without feedback |
| 19:15.06 | thomasg | with feedback :) |
| 19:15.13 | Writchie | that's what I mean. |
| 19:15.13 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-2e4a88ff6fddae8a) |
| 19:15.14 | jaebird | neo has a fp unit? |
| 19:15.18 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 19:15.19 | Writchie | the speakers are erroneously enabled |
| 19:15.19 | thomasg | Writchie, k, thx |
| 19:15.20 | mjr | jaebird, no |
| 19:15.30 | daxxar | The neo is trash on fp-calc |
| 19:15.40 | Writchie | did you sort your data call issue |
| 19:15.45 | thomasg | not the neo, the arm9 without fp-coprocessor :) |
| 19:15.47 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:15.50 | zedstar | thomasg: ah ok thanks i think i saw this on the wiki referring to version0 phones will give it ago |
| 19:15.52 | daxxar | Err |
| 19:15.53 | daxxar | I mean |
| 19:15.55 | calamous1_ | Is that my decoding an MP3 takes 20% of the proc? |
| 19:15.55 | thomasg | Writchie, I did |
| 19:15.59 | daxxar | Is the neo trash on fp-calcs? |
| 19:16.06 | *** join/#openmoko lsobral (n=sobral@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:16.09 | Writchie | what was it if i may ask |
| 19:16.09 | calamous1_ | softFPU? |
| 19:16.09 | thomasg | Writchie, was my mistake - forgot the ; behind the number :) |
| 19:16.19 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: 486/75 it took 110% or so. |
| 19:16.22 | thomasg | calamous1_, yes |
| 19:16.38 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: that's about 20% equiv. |
| 19:17.36 | jaebird | i think i'll go down and get a t-mobile prepaid sim |
| 19:17.46 | Writchie | t-mobile in US now has tunnelling of GSM through wi-fi |
| 19:17.46 | calamous1_ | jaebird: make sure it works |
| 19:17.57 | Writchie | with auto hand-over |
| 19:18.02 | Writchie | or so they say |
| 19:18.02 | *** part/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:18.02 | jaebird | the at&t issue is frustrating |
| 19:18.06 | calamous1_ | yes it is |
| 19:18.13 | mjr | calamous1_, actually I think madplay uses fixed point, and therefore only eats 20% |
| 19:18.18 | thomasg | the AT&T thing sounds ugly |
| 19:18.25 | calamous1_ | Yes I HATE at&t |
| 19:18.26 | thomasg | must be something special with their sim-cards |
| 19:18.36 | calamous1_ | and I'm really sad too today because of the FCC auction rules |
| 19:18.43 | thomasg | I tested it with german UMTS-SIM-cards (USIM) at t-mobile and it works perfectly |
| 19:18.44 | jaebird | the sim works in my moto E2 |
| 19:18.56 | andrunko | jaebird: send some devices to us (indt), so we can build canola for it ;) |
| 19:19.06 | jaebird | nice |
| 19:19.14 | jaebird | yours on the way yet? |
| 19:19.15 | calamous1_ | Harald said that FIC was talking with TI. how long do you think that will last? |
| 19:19.44 | jaebird | How responsive is TI? They are a big co |
| 19:19.47 | andrunko | jaebird: nope, we are waiting for them |
| 19:19.55 | jaebird | they can take their time :( |
| 19:19.59 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 19:20.14 | andrunko | yeah i know |
| 19:20.18 | andrunko | :( |
| 19:20.25 | jaebird | i wonder what location they are made |
| 19:20.35 | k-s[WORK] | jaebird: mine is coming, but have to way bit more due lack of devices |
| 19:20.37 | jaebird | i'm just down the road from them |
| 19:21.00 | jaebird | i could take a neo and a sim card over there...and say HEY! |
| 19:21.01 | calamous1_ | Should we try to contact TI and tell 'em to hurry up |
| 19:21.27 | Writchie | TI cell chip division is about like the NSA |
| 19:21.32 | jaebird | searching on calypso doesn't get much |
| 19:21.46 | calamous1_ | Jaebird: you live in texas? |
| 19:21.49 | pjz | calamous1_: yes, madplay uses fixed point |
| 19:21.49 | Writchie | forget about them talking to anybody not prepared to buy a million chips |
| 19:21.51 | jaebird | ya |
| 19:21.56 | calamous1_ | jaebird: I'm sorry |
| 19:22.04 | pjz | jaebird: where? I'm in Austin |
| 19:22.12 | jaebird | north texas |
| 19:22.45 | jaebird | calamous1: i'm not :) |
| 19:22.46 | calamous1_ | FIC would prob buy millions of chips if they worked |
| 19:22.56 | Writchie | FIC already buys millions of chips |
| 19:23.21 | calamous1_ | Then what is taking those texas yokels so long |
| 19:23.32 | jaebird | I hope that the communication will be better than with shipping... |
| 19:23.47 | jaebird | give me an address...i'll go down there |
| 19:24.27 | Writchie | does it surprise you that EVERYBODY's cards work and only AT&T's do not? |
| 19:24.41 | calamous1_ | TI Addresses |
| 19:24.41 | calamous1_ | Executive Offices: |
| 19:24.41 | calamous1_ | 12500 TI Boulevard |
| 19:24.41 | calamous1_ | Dallas, Texas |
| 19:24.51 | Writchie | goes to /dev/null |
| 19:25.08 | calamous1_ | Writchie: Are you suggesting at&t purposly build a neo-defeater into it? |
| 19:25.16 | jaebird | but conversely, i have not had any other unlocked phone not work with AT&T sim cards either |
| 19:25.17 | Writchie | not neo |
| 19:25.33 | calamous1_ | at&t wants money |
| 19:25.43 | calamous1_ | so they want their cards to work with our stuff |
| 19:25.48 | Writchie | i would speculate that its related to iPhone DRM |
| 19:25.52 | jaebird | calamous1_: the division that made the chipset |
| 19:26.03 | jaebird | i worked at ti about 10yrs ago |
| 19:26.08 | Writchie | and their fancy 3G DRM apps on their new SIM cards |
| 19:26.14 | jaebird | it is a big place...(lots of big places) |
| 19:26.19 | calamous1_ | What DRM is on the simcard? |
| 19:26.42 | ozarka | I'm in north Texas, too! |
| 19:26.49 | Writchie | on AT&T's new card there is lots of it |
| 19:26.54 | ozarka | (Just thought I'd share) |
| 19:27.16 | calamous1_ | Writchie: what does it too? or susposed to do? people from sharing ringtones |
| 19:27.19 | jaebird | top says everything is running as root? |
| 19:27.21 | Writchie | AT&T doesn't believe in open networks, wish they never let you hook up your own land phone |
| 19:27.42 | jaebird | ozarka: join the local group on the wiki |
| 19:27.49 | calamous1_ | Writchie: are you sad about the 700MHZ auction rules |
| 19:27.51 | Writchie | GSM philosophy is totally contrary to Bell shaped head mentality |
| 19:28.04 | Writchie | no sad at all, equipment will be open |
| 19:28.22 | Writchie | probably will mean a new GSM 750 band |
| 19:28.34 | ozarka | jaebird: I'm already on it. |
| 19:28.44 | jaebird | what is interesting is that cingular was one of the most open providers...compared to verizon or sprint |
| 19:29.01 | calamous1_ | Who is more "evil" verizon or at&t? |
| 19:29.02 | jaebird | ozarka: cool |
| 19:29.09 | Writchie | both are Bell shaped heads |
| 19:29.12 | calamous1_ | for lack of a better word |
| 19:29.18 | Writchie | but at least AT&T has a GSM network |
| 19:29.24 | Writchie | so there's hope |
| 19:29.35 | Writchie | when the last of Bell Shaped heads retire. |
| 19:29.41 | mwester | "Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity" ~Napoleon |
| 19:29.43 | jaebird | sprint is kicking out customers that are too dificult! |
| 19:29.52 | calamous1_ | I heard that at&t's network in the US is the worst |
| 19:30.02 | Writchie | or conspiracy where incompetence will do |
| 19:30.12 | mwester | Sprint's is the worst - at least around the great lakes. |
| 19:30.27 | Writchie | everybody would like to kick out such customers |
| 19:30.32 | jaebird | calamous1_: depends where you are, in texas it is pretty good |
| 19:30.40 | Writchie | the PR cost them pretty bad. |
| 19:30.46 | ozarka | calamous1_: I vote Verizon as the most evil... but AT&T does have the Death Star for their logo... |
| 19:30.47 | mwester | It's hard to imagine two hours of dead time with no usable cell signal --- driving between Chicago and Detroit!!! |
| 19:30.50 | ozarka | So it's a close call. |
| 19:31.17 | calamous1_ | mwester: are you from chicago? |
| 19:31.33 | mwester | Close enough. |
| 19:31.46 | calamous1_ | where? |
| 19:31.46 | mwester | (NW suburbs) |
| 19:31.51 | calamous1_ | like aurora? |
| 19:31.58 | calamous1_ | Palentine? |
| 19:32.01 | calamous1_ | Barrington? |
| 19:32.07 | calamous1_ | Arlington Hegihts? |
| 19:32.10 | mwester | about 20 miles north of aurora, a bit north of Elgin |
| 19:32.45 | calamous1_ | mwester: I'm from the city (Lincoln Park) and there was another guy jason ewell who is from suburbs |
| 19:33.03 | calamous1_ | We should all get together |
| 19:33.31 | jaebird | http://www.corante.com/unwired/archives/2005/02/22/a_public_service_message_for_all_cingular_treo_650_users.php |
| 19:33.34 | mwester | I saw on the wiki that there were a bunch of Chicago-based folks; but I'm still waiting for any sign that a neo might actually be shipped. So I'm just sorta lurking, I guess. |
| 19:33.44 | jaebird | they exchanged gemplus sim cards back then |
| 19:33.51 | calamous1_ | mwester: bummer, you don't have it yet? |
| 19:34.04 | jaebird | seems that sim problems have happened before |
| 19:34.15 | calamous1_ | t-mobile is GSM right? |
| 19:34.15 | mwester | 3296 -- no sign of when they'll even manufacture that batch! |
| 19:34.16 | *** part/#openmoko rschuster (n=rob@vpn.tarent.de) |
| 19:34.35 | calamous1_ | cause I think i may buy another prepaid plan (since at&t didnt work) |
| 19:34.54 | mwester | t-mobile is GSM; I have a pay-as-you-go sim from t-mobile that works in my unlocked AT&T phone. |
| 19:35.23 | SpeedEvil | Can Iphone do GSM? |
| 19:35.29 | calamous1_ | iPhone is GSM |
| 19:35.41 | calamous1_ | it uses the same at&t sim card that DOSENT work in the neo |
| 19:35.50 | jaebird | iPhone is GSM lite :) (only ATT atm) |
| 19:36.04 | calamous1_ | I've inspected 3 iPhones and its all at&t sim number 71234 4021 |
| 19:36.47 | calamous1_ | What is an AGPS vs a GPS? |
| 19:36.50 | Writchie | iPhone SIM is activated OTA |
| 19:36.54 | jaebird | 63698 G 3002 doesn't work |
| 19:37.06 | calamous1_ | jaebird: from at&t? |
| 19:37.06 | jaebird | 64205 O 4020 doesn't work |
| 19:37.11 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: See AGPS on the wiki |
| 19:37.15 | jaebird | both (cingular) at&t |
| 19:37.22 | SpeedEvil | Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-GPS |
| 19:37.47 | jaebird | added to bug# 666 |
| 19:38.13 | Writchie | my guess is that the iPhone reads the SIM application and refuses to work if not there. |
| 19:38.20 | daMaestro | 3021 doesn't work either |
| 19:38.50 | jaebird | daMaestro: what is the sku and manufacture on that one |
| 19:39.14 | daMaestro | not sure |
| 19:39.16 | jaebird | what are the sku's for people who's sims ARE working? |
| 19:39.27 | jaebird | mine are over 2yrs old |
| 19:39.34 | daMaestro | 73000G - 3021 is what i wrote down |
| 19:39.36 | calamous1_ | jaebird: good question? |
| 19:39.44 | daMaestro | it was the one in the drawer at the att stores |
| 19:39.56 | calamous1_ | How do you read the xxxx number |
| 19:40.09 | calamous1_ | mfgr - something - something - something? |
| 19:40.20 | jaebird | the xxxxx is sku followed by a letter code which is manufacturer |
| 19:40.36 | jaebird | then the 4 digit batch/version number, iirc |
| 19:40.45 | calamous1_ | iirc? |
| 19:40.54 | jaebird | G = Gemplus |
| 19:41.00 | jaebird | O = Oberthur |
| 19:41.30 | jaebird | then i found another on the www as Axalto |
| 19:41.31 | daMaestro | jaebird, would you add what information will be helpful to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT |
| 19:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko balthama1steri (n=balthama@statip-80-95-133-18.kopteri.net) |
| 19:43.00 | jaebird | sure... |
| 19:43.27 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:43.55 | daMaestro | calamous1_, so i am assuming there still has been no reports they work? |
| 19:44.15 | daMaestro | calamous1_, bar a random comment i saw that 1 in 5 "kinda" worked |
| 19:44.27 | daMaestro | (1 out of every 5 boots) |
| 19:45.31 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: what are you refering too? the at&t sim cards |
| 19:45.39 | daMaestro | yes |
| 19:46.05 | calamous1_ | Ive booted my neo 20+ times and it dosent work. The intersting part is sometimes the GSM daemon wont crash on boot |
| 19:46.23 | calamous1_ | I would like to speak with someone who got 71234 - 4021 working in their neo |
| 19:46.53 | *** join/#openmoko awu (n=Miranda@port-212-202-174-138.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 19:51.27 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:53.21 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 19:55.07 | Risto | Hi there, |
| 19:55.23 | Risto | juchu! (german for wohoo!) after 4 long days of waiting today I got the NEO! |
| 19:55.58 | Risto | A *BIG* *THANX* to the Neo an Moko Team for this precious peace of hardware! :-) |
| 19:56.45 | dfoelber_ | Yay! |
| 19:57.04 | balthama1steri | gj |
| 19:57.07 | accumulator | gratz |
| 19:57.29 | accumulator | I'm holding out for GTA02, but it's hard I can tell you |
| 19:57.31 | calamous1_ | I was looking at the GSM specifications |
| 19:57.35 | zedstar | which are most people using to flash their neo's? i just tried http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ or should i be using the official link? |
| 19:57.40 | calamous1_ | It seems like etherenet tcp/ip is more simple |
| 19:57.45 | calamous1_ | and straightforward |
| 19:58.25 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (n=me@dD5763257.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:00.57 | Risto | calamous1_: the hole bunch of GSM-specificstion can be found here: www.etsi.org |
| 20:01.16 | Risto | some of them free of charge for private use |
| 20:01.26 | xzcvczx | Risto: all 1000 pages+ :P |
| 20:01.35 | Writchie | 1000 pages, you wish |
| 20:02.03 | SpeedEvil | 1000 pages would be the beginners guide. |
| 20:02.19 | Writchie | GSM for dummies |
| 20:02.57 | xzcvczx | Writchie: then theres gsm for dummies for dummies |
| 20:03.13 | Blueraid | 1000pages @ DIN A0? |
| 20:03.28 | Writchie | you got to take a survey course first |
| 20:04.03 | juri_ | i need a "rdp protocol for gibbering morons, AKA microsoft admins" |
| 20:04.10 | jgm | Anyone fancy answering (yet another) bitbake question? |
| 20:05.39 | *** join/#openmoko dt1 (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 20:05.43 | xzcvczx | they should include an airhorn sound on the phones for any telemarketers |
| 20:05.44 | Writchie | calamou1_: when your done reading GSM specs you can hop on over the open mobile alliance |
| 20:05.53 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:05.57 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: it's in the wiki |
| 20:06.05 | SpeedEvil | IIRC 'play sound clips' in Wish List |
| 20:06.09 | jaebird | daMaestro: Updated... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT |
| 20:06.15 | xzcvczx | yeah was reading that halfhour ago |
| 20:06.48 | daMaestro | jaebird, thanks |
| 20:07.46 | SpeedEvil | Exception: Customs blended your phone. |
| 20:08.13 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:08.17 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 20:08.24 | daMaestro | jaebird, nice.. i'll add the info i know of |
| 20:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0D0D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:08.41 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: let them try |
| 20:08.48 | jgm | SpeedEvil: don't joke... |
| 20:08.54 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 20:08.58 | jaebird | on the ml some old sims worked, but they didn't give the info.. |
| 20:09.02 | SpeedEvil | Customs are not my friends. |
| 20:09.09 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: Exception: Customs staff member decided your phone looked nicer than theres so took it. |
| 20:09.10 | SpeedEvil | They confiscated some laser pointers once. |
| 20:09.25 | xzcvczx | lol based on what |
| 20:09.29 | SpeedEvil | They claimed then to measure them and find they were 5.04mW |
| 20:09.32 | SpeedEvil | Not 5mW |
| 20:09.38 | SpeedEvil | therefore they were dangerous. |
| 20:09.42 | Writchie | actually the ones shipped with NEO are on the US list - $300,000 fine |
| 20:10.11 | mwester | ? |
| 20:10.43 | Writchie | unlabeled class IIIa lasers are a no no |
| 20:11.08 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: Tree build system and OM2007.2 |
| 20:11.18 | Stephmw | it's unlabelled in the box, or just in marketing material? |
| 20:11.18 | Writchie | need a warning like don't eat the dehumidy bags |
| 20:11.56 | Writchie | what I can't figure out is what good are warnings when the people are too stupid to read. |
| 20:13.27 | *** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@CPE001839cfbf96-CM0014e827107e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:13.44 | xzcvczx | Writchie: well unfourtunately thats about 1/2 the worlds population |
| 20:14.20 | jgm | Writchie: actually I worked that one out recently |
| 20:14.54 | jgm | Having left a bunch of those around forever, deciding after some thought that I wasn't going to eat them personally, my young daughter tried one out... |
| 20:15.25 | jgm | So the warning should really be something like "you may not be stupid enough to eat this yourself but don't be so stupid as to leave it where others who don't know what it is may eat it" |
| 20:15.44 | Writchie | like plastic bags. |
| 20:16.00 | jgm | Yeah |
| 20:16.34 | Writchie | more than 1/2 the people of functionally illiterate |
| 20:16.41 | Writchie | and that's just the politicians |
| 20:17.16 | daMaestro | wow... |
| 20:17.29 | daMaestro | so to tag onto the "att no workie" ... the bug is 666 |
| 20:17.46 | daMaestro | and comment 6 is where we hear "not our problem, and the company in question sucks" |
| 20:17.48 | daMaestro | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666#c6 |
| 20:19.03 | Shoragan | rtp, you did the s3c ts driver? |
| 20:20.34 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:22.17 | happycube | the problem with at&t sucking is that it only leaves t-mo in the us... and MVNO's... :P |
| 20:24.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Glenn]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Bluetooth_Support]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] |
| 20:26.50 | mwester | the problem with the at&t thing is that I *already* have an unlimited data account with AT&T on my Treo -- so a second account with T-Mobile just for development purposes on the Neo would be an unexpected monthly expense. |
| 20:27.12 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 20:27.12 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 20:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:27.58 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:28.03 | mwester | That bot is a whiner, isn't it? |
| 20:28.10 | CathodioN | heheh |
| 20:28.15 | jaebird | the at&t issue _has_ to be solvable, i bet most US customers are expecting to use it |
| 20:29.03 | mwester | I'm sure it will be, I just hope it's solvable in firmware in the P1, and not something that requires P2. |
| 20:29.27 | jaebird | i wonder how many enduser there are to the calypso gsm chip... |
| 20:29.53 | jaebird | if FIC is a big customer of it, ti should respond fairly quickly |
| 20:30.27 | jaebird | how does one flash the GSM firmware!! |
| 20:30.34 | SpeedEvil | One doesn't. |
| 20:30.40 | SpeedEvil | There is no released flashing tool. |
| 20:30.49 | happycube | it'd have to be an rma process |
| 20:30.52 | SpeedEvil | As reported so far, the flashing can only happen at FIC |
| 20:30.53 | ewanm89_laptop | One isn't allowed to. |
| 20:30.53 | weez | anyone thought about a finger operatable keyboard? |
| 20:31.05 | weez | I was thinking hard about it today and had a brain fart |
| 20:31.05 | weez | er |
| 20:31.07 | SpeedEvil | weez: Wow! you must be the first! |
| 20:31.08 | weez | i mean an inspiration |
| 20:31.16 | SpeedEvil | We've all been using our toes. |
| 20:31.34 | jaebird | this may push them (ti) to allow a flash tool |
| 20:31.40 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps. |
| 20:31.48 | SpeedEvil | However - not for 500 units. |
| 20:31.50 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M8b4e.m.pppool.de) |
| 20:31.50 | weez | is the onscreen keyboard easily usable with fingers? |
| 20:31.55 | mjr | weez, no |
| 20:31.56 | weez | i was using a stylus |
| 20:31.59 | weez | ok |
| 20:32.00 | mjr | in fact very difficultly |
| 20:32.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 677 has been created by mjr(AT)iki.fi |
| 20:32.01 | cdbot2 | * * I/O errors on heavy microSD writes |
| 20:32.02 | weez | then my idea |
| 20:32.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=677 |
| 20:32.09 | SpeedEvil | Some say thatr they can use the keyboard with fingers. |
| 20:32.20 | weez | was to split the keyboard in 2 halves like one of the natural keyboards |
| 20:32.22 | mjr | I do have non-small hands |
| 20:32.26 | weez | and use the aux button to switch halves |
| 20:32.27 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, umm.. soooo... does this mean we have to pay to have the modem flashed? |
| 20:32.30 | mjr | I can imagine some people being able to use it |
| 20:32.37 | weez | keys for keyboard can be much bigger then |
| 20:32.55 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: I don't know. I'd hope FIC would cover it. |
| 20:32.59 | weez | i cant always carry an external keyboard though |
| 20:33.07 | CathodioN | Does anyone know the current status of the GPS software> |
| 20:33.10 | daMaestro | that might end up being the straw + camel back + breakage that looses me as a developer |
| 20:33.10 | CathodioN | ? |
| 20:33.17 | SpeedEvil | CathodioN: binary not shipped with P1 |
| 20:33.24 | SpeedEvil | Going to be available 'real soon now' |
| 20:33.31 | CathodioN | k, but does it work? |
| 20:33.33 | jaebird | lesson learned: test with all major providers before shipping! |
| 20:33.34 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 20:33.40 | *** join/#openmoko anthony__ (n=anthony@74-61-253-3.vis.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 20:33.47 | CathodioN | i want to write a deamon that sends GPS location to a server |
| 20:33.51 | happycube | does openmoko inc have any us developers? |
| 20:33.54 | daMaestro | too many things have added up that are flat out pissing me off; including att sim and no gps |
| 20:34.11 | jaebird | no, but sean comes to the us a _lot_ |
| 20:34.30 | jgm | daMaestro: that's the downside of early development. Do your development ideas need that stuff right now? |
| 20:34.45 | daMaestro | umm... a working gsm modem, yes |
| 20:34.49 | daMaestro | gps, not so much |
| 20:34.53 | mwester | That's amazing when you think about it. Who all had P0 phones? Did NONE of them go to the US, where they could have been tested with an AT&T SIM? |
| 20:35.08 | don-o | daMaestro: what do you mean by 'no gps'? |
| 20:35.12 | mwester | I know I tried to get on the P0 list, seemed to me that only the buddies of the core team got them. |
| 20:35.13 | jaebird | well...i tried :) |
| 20:35.17 | SpeedEvil | no GPS binary software bundled. |
| 20:35.27 | LarstiQ | mwester: the P0 people I can think about are not in the US |
| 20:36.08 | don-o | SpeedEvil: gllin is on the flashram of the device when its shipped, right? |
| 20:36.09 | mwester | Yep. Seems to me that somebody messed up big-time on that. AT&T, while they may be evil-incarnate, is the major player here. |
| 20:36.16 | SpeedEvil | don-o: no |
| 20:36.33 | noon | SpeedEvil: it would be nice if the new gllin would have debugsymbols *whistle* ;-) |
| 20:36.39 | *** join/#openmoko anthony_ (n=anthony@74-61-253-3.vis.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 20:36.55 | weez | pjz, just looking back and saw you are in austin |
| 20:37.01 | *** join/#openmoko codyl (n=cody@adsl-71-142-91-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 20:37.13 | weez | pjz, did you get a p1? |
| 20:37.42 | don-o | SpeedEvil: hmm. there was earlier chat about being careful to copy some piece of gps software from the shipped device before flashing because there was no other way to get it. |
| 20:37.59 | SpeedEvil | don-o: that was revealed to be assumptions. |
| 20:37.59 | mjr | don-o, it was shipped with some earlier devices, not these |
| 20:38.00 | jaebird | p0 |
| 20:38.01 | cindy | I have to power down my phone to check, but my card is att&t and it works fine. It is old though, 2.5 years old. It may be a verison. I will check. |
| 20:38.20 | jaebird | cindy: put it on the list |
| 20:38.58 | daMaestro | cindy, please, put it on the list |
| 20:39.12 | daMaestro | i was told that you can't re-activate any 2g cards; though |
| 20:39.13 | cindy | I will as soon as I can figure out what the manufacture number etc is. |
| 20:39.31 | daMaestro | so only those with existing accounts can do anything with them |
| 20:39.34 | CathodioN | I see gpsd talks python |
| 20:39.37 | CathodioN | thats good |
| 20:40.34 | CathodioN | by the way, anyone from the core team online now? |
| 20:41.30 | mwester | hehe - I suspect they stay away from this channel as far as they can -- else they would get pummeled for order status information, technical questions, and get no work done! |
| 20:41.35 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: Charging looks funky. After a few hours it goes into a slower charge mode |
| 20:41.42 | don-o | mwester: too true! |
| 20:42.01 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: it should |
| 20:42.14 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: it should charge at max power till it hits 4.2V |
| 20:42.17 | cindy | My card has "AT&T Wireless" and then a 20 digit number. What part of that is the SKU and Vender? There is nothing else on it. |
| 20:42.17 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 20:42.17 | Writchie | at 300ma i would expect it to pretty much top off the battery |
| 20:42.24 | SpeedEvil | then it should float at 4.2V for an hourish |
| 20:42.36 | rtp | Shoragan: if it's in the source code, it must be true :) |
| 20:43.01 | mwester | Cindy: flip it over; should be a 5 digit, then letter, then 4 digit (I think) number. |
| 20:43.12 | Writchie | doesn't look like float when it's still drawing 150ma |
| 20:43.18 | Writchie | on top of the device power |
| 20:43.23 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: after how long? |
| 20:43.23 | Shoragan | there is a lot of noise in the vertical value, the horzontal one seem ok... any idea about the cause? |
| 20:43.33 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A5639E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:43.38 | anthony_ | how would i go about updating my phone?... or if im not mistaken the firware |
| 20:43.38 | aloril | anthony_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:43.47 | Writchie | seemed to be about 3 hours into a dead battery |
| 20:44.14 | Writchie | shouldn't be enough power to trip temp regulation |
| 20:44.50 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-209-59.netcologne.de) |
| 20:44.55 | Elrond | ~seen balrug-kun |
| 20:45.18 | apt | i haven't seen 'balrug-kun', Elrond |
| 20:45.19 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: It should take about 1.5? hours to get to the float voltage |
| 20:45.31 | SpeedEvil | Then it will it will float charge for 1 hour or so. |
| 20:45.41 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: should at least. |
| 20:45.44 | cindy | Sorry, nothing on the back except the contacts. I checked for indentations, nothing. Not sure if it will help to add it to the list unless I say an unmarked SIM! |
| 20:45.45 | Writchie | energy doesn't add up |
| 20:46.04 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 20:46.10 | SpeedEvil | Measure volts across battery maybe. |
| 20:46.11 | pH5 | SpeedEvil: my charging curves took nearly 3.6 hours till 4.2v from a dead battery. |
| 20:46.27 | SpeedEvil | That assumes 500mA at 100% efficiency |
| 20:46.33 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 20:46.35 | SpeedEvil | If it uses a simple series dropper, it's less. |
| 20:46.49 | Writchie | sure better be switch mode |
| 20:46.53 | SpeedEvil | takes longer that is. |
| 20:47.07 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 20:47.25 | jaebird | cindy, that is an old cingular sim card? |
| 20:48.09 | Writchie | 3.6 hours makes sense based on energy. |
| 20:48.20 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 20:48.36 | cindy | jaebird, yes I think it was from a cingular account but it says AT&T on it. |
| 20:48.37 | Writchie | but continuing to draw 150ma for hours doesn't seem right. |
| 20:48.58 | pH5 | Writchie: why not? |
| 20:49.19 | jaebird | the old AT&T Wireless was bought out by cingular several years ago |
| 20:49.20 | Writchie | Where's it going - doesn't seem to be heat. |
| 20:49.33 | jaebird | were the gsm? |
| 20:49.39 | jaebird | s/the/they |
| 20:50.17 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 20:50.19 | Writchie | may be we don't have enough voltage coming in to maintain fast charge |
| 20:50.39 | *** part/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 20:50.42 | Writchie | as i recall you need both dt and dv |
| 20:50.49 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 20:50.55 | CathodioN | folks, sorry for al the questions and all, but are you all developers? |
| 20:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 20:52.08 | *** join/#openmoko mrface (i=bradpitc@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org) |
| 20:52.12 | CathodioN | I've booted up an OpenMoko Project to share GPS locations across OpenMoko devices, and some ppl joined, but after that it became dead silent |
| 20:52.24 | CathodioN | not much action happening right> |
| 20:52.26 | CathodioN | ? |
| 20:52.38 | mrface | great idea cathodion |
| 20:52.51 | Elrond | CathodioN - I haven't understood the idea. |
| 20:53.10 | daMaestro | ok... well i guess i'll go buy tmobile while i'm off at lunch |
| 20:53.19 | mrface | I was thinking of sharing my location info with friends by sending location tweets to twittervision |
| 20:53.26 | daMaestro | i do want to say that it was an error to not have this tested for p1 |
| 20:53.36 | CathodioN | If my buddy and i both have a Neo with GPS and GPRS, i want his Neo to send its coords over the internet to my Neo and see his location on the map |
| 20:53.50 | *** part/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.89) |
| 20:53.54 | ynezz | nice idea |
| 20:53.59 | *** join/#openmoko dt1 (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 20:54.00 | daMaestro | CathodioN, you can use SMS too? |
| 20:54.02 | Elrond | CathodioN - Ahh, fun idea. |
| 20:54.09 | Elrond | <-- too paranoid for thiss. |
| 20:54.12 | CathodioN | Yes, SMS can be used too |
| 20:54.16 | mrface | yeah, sms |
| 20:54.17 | mjr | yeah, such a location service is one of the must-haves |
| 20:54.17 | Writchie | "here is me" service |
| 20:54.19 | ynezz | --source wife -J DROP |
| 20:54.25 | daMaestro | lol |
| 20:54.27 | CathodioN | but it likely to be more expensive |
| 20:54.44 | mrface | Elrond: no need to be paranoid. the phone is open source. we know exactly what it's doing with the information |
| 20:54.46 | daMaestro | ahh right; i see that aspect |
| 20:55.01 | Writchie | going straight to NSA |
| 20:55.01 | ynezz | not with flat grps |
| 20:55.16 | Elrond | mrface - Yeah. Need crypto for sending over gprs. ;-) |
| 20:55.16 | ynezz | s/grps/gprs |
| 20:55.25 | mrface | oh yeah |
| 20:55.29 | ynezz | rot14 |
| 20:55.30 | ynezz | :p |
| 20:55.35 | Writchie | you can use crypto on the SMS too |
| 20:55.41 | CathodioN | yes |
| 20:55.51 | ynezz | and the neo will be banned in US :p |
| 20:55.58 | mrface | nsa already knows where we are anyway right? |
| 20:55.58 | aloril | mrface: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:56.06 | mrface | doh! |
| 20:56.08 | Elrond | ynezz - Only that app will be banned. ;) |
| 20:56.35 | Writchie | we'll just ban the reception of crypto messages |
| 20:56.35 | ynezz | until someone hijack plane with neo |
| 20:56.36 | ynezz | :p |
| 20:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
| 20:56.40 | Elrond | mrface - If you enable the gsm (which you need to for gprs), they know your location, right. |
| 20:56.46 | CathodioN | anyway, i need some the write the client app |
| 20:57.04 | Elrond | <-- busy writing gps crap. ;o) |
| 20:57.06 | CathodioN | i'm a professional Java EE programmer |
| 20:57.25 | Writchie | sorry |
| 20:57.29 | CathodioN | professional as in "its my job: |
| 20:57.31 | mrface | elrond: so you're one of the lucky ones with gllin |
| 20:57.31 | CathodioN | " |
| 20:57.32 | CathodioN | :P |
| 20:57.52 | Stephmw | CathodioN: you have my sympathies |
| 20:57.58 | Elrond | mrface - I don't need gllin. |
| 20:58.09 | Stephmw | CathodioN: I'm a professional Java ME developer ;) |
| 20:58.42 | CathodioN | nice |
| 20:58.42 | ynezz | I'm professional IRC idler |
| 20:58.42 | Stephmw | CathodioN: on the API dev side |
| 20:58.42 | Stephmw | CathodioN: mixed embedded C/Java |
| 20:58.42 | don-o | ynezz: LOL |
| 20:58.42 | Elrond | ynezz - *lol* ;-) |
| 20:58.43 | Writchie | is there a Java PhD |
| 20:58.43 | Writchie | EE ME PhD |
| 20:58.55 | mrface | elrond: I didn't know that. you can trace to a file without gllin (insert question mark here) |
| 20:58.55 | Elrond | Writchie - There's an irc phd. ;o) |
| 20:59.09 | don-o | mail oredr |
| 20:59.20 | Elrond | mrface - No. I can talk to the HH and get some info from it. But no location yet. |
| 20:59.22 | weez | ynezz, where do I apply for that job, what does it pay? |
| 20:59.57 | ynezz | not much, but it's fun |
| 21:00.02 | weez | heh |
| 21:00.21 | mrface | elrond: I see. you had my hopes up for a sec. ;) I really want to start contributing to openstreetmaps. the coverage in oregon is terrible |
| 21:00.51 | ynezz | or make some fund and buy the maps for whole world :p |
| 21:00.58 | ynezz | from teleatlas or so |
| 21:01.16 | Elrond | mrface - I guess, gllin will soon pop up in a sharing system near you. ;o) |
| 21:01.35 | ynezz | but yes, it's not that much fun as to do it yourself... |
| 21:01.37 | Psi_ | yay, phone just arrived |
| 21:01.45 | mrface | elrond: I hope so. I'll keep my eye out |
| 21:02.36 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07FF82.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:03.46 | woglinde | yo hrw |
| 21:03.50 | hrw | yo |
| 21:04.16 | Stephmw | hey |
| 21:04.39 | mrface | I didn't know ben goodger was interested in openmoko, is he going to put firefox on it? |
| 21:05.10 | hrw | mrface: would be nice as firefox is terrible when it comes to build for eabi |
| 21:05.25 | mrface | ahh |
| 21:05.45 | hrw | we can build it but it segfaults |
| 21:05.54 | mrface | so has anyone been able to find gllin or do we need to wait |
| 21:06.18 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:06.23 | hrw | gliin? its on my phone so I do not need to search for it |
| 21:06.24 | hrw | ;D |
| 21:06.46 | mrface | there are some pretty old images on buildhost.openmoko.org ~June 4th, I wonder if it would be in there |
| 21:06.58 | mrface | hrw: good for you :) |
| 21:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit_ (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:07.34 | hrw | mrface: gliin is not in any built image |
| 21:07.43 | mrface | dammit |
| 21:07.50 | mrface | arg |
| 21:07.56 | hrw | mrface: it was available only on some of phone sold for selected devs |
| 21:08.19 | mrface | got it, so when you flash you have to copy it back over? |
| 21:08.24 | hrw | yes |
| 21:08.26 | happycube | there are a whole bunch of errors like this: ERROR: 'module' object has no attribute 'get_srcrev' while parsing /mokoa/org.openembedded.dev/packages/openmoko-panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-clock_svn.bb |
| 21:08.34 | hrw | and I can not share it |
| 21:08.35 | happycube | in openembedded head while trying to build angstrom |
| 21:08.42 | mrface | yes, I assumed so |
| 21:08.43 | hrw | happycube: you can ignore that error |
| 21:08.56 | happycube | you can't with bitbank 1.8 |
| 21:08.59 | happycube | *bitbake |
| 21:09.07 | hrw | happycube: you can if you use 1.8svn |
| 21:09.10 | happycube | ooooh |
| 21:09.24 | hrw | happycube: trust me - I use such combo and built angstrom images today |
| 21:10.57 | *** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@38.80-203-113.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:13.09 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 21:13.09 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 21:13.53 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A56F27.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:14.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 678 has been created by mjr(AT)iki.fi |
| 21:14.01 | cdbot2 | * * System inappropriately suspends with no GUI app present |
| 21:14.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=678 |
| 21:15.01 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:15.55 | *** part/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@38.80-203-113.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:16.28 | *** join/#openmoko Henrikw (n=henrik@38.80-203-113.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:25.07 | *** part/#openmoko Dvalin (i=hawkeye@terror.sintrax.net) |
| 21:27.05 | *** join/#openmoko mil_ (n=tiltun@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 21:30.27 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:32.36 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-221-149.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:33.20 | thomasg | today anyone here who can tell me the solution of the perl-native cannot find asm/page.h problem? :) |
| 21:33.53 | thomasg | Psi_, thats correct, you shouldn't flash u-boot if you have no jtag. the kernel and rootfs can be flashed without a problem |
| 21:34.12 | Psi_ | thanks |
| 21:34.35 | happycube | hrw - thanks, that seems to be working now |
| 21:35.01 | Elrond | Psi_ - Right. |
| 21:35.21 | Psi_ | should i use the unoffical http://chooseopen.com builds or the offical buildhost ones? |
| 21:35.47 | Elrond | I'd recommend buildhost. But that's me. |
| 21:36.04 | pjz | thomasg: you've got the wrong kernel headers |
| 21:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.26 | thomasg | pjz, I think you're right. why didn't I have this idea by myself? -.- |
| 21:38.25 | Psi_ | whats the difference between the images that have moko10 and moko11 ? |
| 21:39.19 | Elrond | moko11 is a little newer. |
| 21:39.35 | Psi_ | thx |
| 21:39.45 | *** part/#openmoko Blueraid (n=andreas@p5480589E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:39.46 | thomasg | pjz, seems to be a general gentoo problem. gentoo uses 2.6.21 kernel-headers but only a 2.6.20 kernel. sounds weird |
| 21:40.10 | hrw | thomasg: kernel headers does not have to match kernel running |
| 21:40.14 | Hadaka | does anyone have any prebuilt ångstrom images I might test for fun? or prebuilt images that have the openmoko-today2 with kinetic scrolling etc? |
| 21:40.41 | Psi_ | what about uImage vs zImage ? |
| 21:40.48 | hrw | Psi_: use uimage |
| 21:40.51 | thomasg | hrw, that sounds weird, too :) |
| 21:40.56 | woglinde | uImage is zImage with uboot header |
| 21:40.59 | thomasg | Psi_, zImage won't work, onlz uImage works |
| 21:41.00 | Psi_ | ah |
| 21:41.10 | hrw | Hadaka: fix my upload so I will give you one |
| 21:41.35 | *** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 21:41.43 | Hadaka | hrw: heh, what's wrong with your upload? |
| 21:41.53 | hrw | my isp fscked it |
| 21:42.04 | hrw | I have ~90kbps instead of 512kbps |
| 21:42.11 | Hadaka | hrw: ah, sucks :( |
| 21:44.01 | thomasg | pjz, so can you tell me what kernel-headers I'd need? |
| 21:44.29 | woglinde | thomasg still the perl problem? |
| 21:44.41 | thomasg | woglinde, yes :( |
| 21:44.54 | hrw | thomasg: use 2.6.20 ones |
| 21:45.00 | thomasg | hrw, I have 2.6.21 |
| 21:45.06 | woglinde | hrw he hase asm/page.h error with perl |
| 21:45.15 | woglinde | bu I forget the solution |
| 21:45.36 | hrw | thomasg: which ver of perl is built? |
| 21:46.08 | hrw | 5.8.4? 5.8.7? 5.8.8? |
| 21:46.14 | thomasg | hrw, mom, I have to start the script again, don't know |
| 21:46.23 | thomasg | I'm using mokomakefile |
| 21:46.49 | hrw | ah.. so you are still using obsolete OE tree which openmoko guys were using... |
| 21:46.59 | *** join/#openmoko dt1 (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 21:47.33 | hrw | no solution then. |
| 21:47.44 | thomasg | so what was your problem? |
| 21:47.55 | thomasg | or what else could I do? |
| 21:47.56 | hrw | not until openmoko officially switch to OE dev tree |
| 21:48.26 | hrw | wait until they move to OE dev tree is easiest |
| 21:48.48 | thomasg | ok hrw, thanks for your help |
| 21:48.59 | Hadaka | I wonder why matchbox-keyboard is sending spurious backspaces and enter keys when typing on it |
| 21:49.07 | woglinde | thomasg someone here had a soultion |
| 21:49.15 | woglinde | but a I said I dont remeber |
| 21:49.17 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: you awake? |
| 21:49.20 | thomasg | woglinde, no logs? :) |
| 21:49.26 | woglinde | no |
| 21:49.30 | woglinde | hm but maybee the bot |
| 21:49.37 | woglinde | try google search |
| 21:49.45 | woglinde | for cdbot |
| 21:49.49 | woglinde | or mokobot |
| 21:50.28 | thomasg | could this be the solution? FreeNode-#openmoko.log:Jul 17 01:14:22 <gcb77> this was asked here before, and the suggestions was: you need to create a simlink of include/asm/page.h from linux source to /usr/include/asm/page.h |
| 21:50.42 | woglinde | yes |
| 21:50.46 | woglinde | that it was |
| 21:50.48 | woglinde | nasty hack |
| 21:50.54 | thomasg | hehe |
| 21:51.22 | xzcvczx | Psi_: howd you get it so damn early |
| 21:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko weez (n=weez@rrcs-24-173-249-242.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:52.29 | thomasg | ok woglinde, will see if it'll work. thanks for your efforts |
| 21:53.03 | xzcvczx | Psi_: who was it delivered by? |
| 21:53.38 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.110.155) |
| 21:54.44 | *** join/#openmoko codyl (n=cody@adsl-71-142-91-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:58.58 | Psi_ | xzcvczx, a guy. hehe i dunno |
| 21:59.08 | Psi_ | i wasnt really looking at him or his van |
| 21:59.40 | LarstiQ | Psi_: not clearly ups then? |
| 21:59.51 | *** part/#openmoko dfoelber_ (n=dfoelber@beavis.aws.com) |
| 21:59.54 | mjr | whee, I have bluetooth pan networking :) |
| 22:00.23 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 22:00.37 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: Yup |
| 22:00.53 | Psi_ | hey Arachnid |
| 22:00.56 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: Where's your parcel? |
| 22:00.59 | Arachnid | Psi_: hi there |
| 22:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko b1303s (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-19d87cc327319ace) |
| 22:01.17 | b1303s | hi! |
| 22:01.50 | ozarka | hi |
| 22:02.19 | codyl | Are they still shipping phones .. ? Or have they ran out of them ? |
| 22:02.39 | xzcvczx | Psi_: well was it yellow? :P |
| 22:03.26 | Psi_ | the van |
| 22:03.28 | Psi_ | i didnt look |
| 22:04.27 | ozarka | codyl: My understanding is that they are out of phones, but more should be arriving in the US in a few weeks. |
| 22:04.33 | *** part/#openmoko cheriff (n=davidm@221.199.209.30) |
| 22:04.34 | dando- | I dont know! But I dont like autotools |
| 22:04.42 | ozarka | Orange phones were supposed to ship this week. |
| 22:04.49 | dando- | What do you guys think of it? |
| 22:04.52 | LarstiQ | ozarka: tomorrow afaik |
| 22:05.04 | dando- | it disables one main feature of make |
| 22:05.04 | Psi_ | my phone is flashing rootfs |
| 22:05.05 | Arachnid | Psi_: You got your phone? Curse you! |
| 22:05.15 | Arachnid | Mine is still stuck in Auckland. :/ |
| 22:05.19 | Arachnid | I gather you didn't have to pay customs? |
| 22:05.25 | Psi_ | nope |
| 22:05.27 | ozarka | LarstiQ: Was there an update on the orange ones? |
| 22:05.39 | Arachnid | There's hope yet, then... |
| 22:05.40 | ozarka | I ordered orange but I haven't heard anything. |
| 22:05.41 | Psi_ | they are too busy checking for drugs to make ppl pay customs on stuff |
| 22:05.45 | Arachnid | heh |
| 22:06.00 | Psi_ | only if they have to stop your package and check for drugs do they bother to make you pay customs at the same time |
| 22:06.01 | dando- | Normaly you dont compile the whole binary just the object file you modified. |
| 22:06.10 | Arachnid | Mine's last activity is an "import scan" at 4:10 AM" and (after that!) an "in transit scan" at 3:39AM |
| 22:06.20 | Arachnid | Psi_: They used to stop everything |
| 22:06.20 | dando- | and then link it to the binary |
| 22:06.24 | LarstiQ | ozarka: yeah |
| 22:06.26 | Arachnid | (everything over $400, anyway) |
| 22:06.28 | Writchie | mjr: make sure you update the wiki :) |
| 22:06.29 | zedstar | i got done for about 43 pounds by UK customs the bastards :) |
| 22:06.42 | dando- | but autotools destroy this feature |
| 22:06.59 | Psi_ | Arachnid, well didnt stop mine, and thats what dad told me, he works with the xray machines at customs/airport etc. |
| 22:07.15 | dando- | but maybe only geeks complain about this |
| 22:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko broonaaw (n=bren@79-65-154-37.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:07.38 | ozarka | LarstiQ: That's good news. |
| 22:07.42 | Arachnid | yeah |
| 22:07.52 | Arachnid | Just speaking from experience in the past - the distant past. :P |
| 22:07.52 | *** join/#openmoko Taco (n=rtm@pool-129-44-188-186.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:08.03 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: mine will hopefully be here by midday based on Psi_ having his already |
| 22:08.05 | Psi_ | id imagine they amount of drugs gets larger every year |
| 22:08.13 | Psi_ | mine arrived at 9am |
| 22:08.21 | xzcvczx | you lucky sod |
| 22:08.26 | LarstiQ | ozarka: it's out of my scrollback, but someone mentioned he ge got a reply stating the batch with his orange neo would be arriving in the us tomorrow iirc |
| 22:08.31 | LarstiQ | ozarka: couple of hours back |
| 22:08.35 | xzcvczx | thats the best i have ever heard of a courier coming |
| 22:08.39 | thomasg | it's getting thrilling - perl-native builds now |
| 22:08.40 | Psi_ | xzcvczx, my guess would be that yours is in the same van and he will get to you within a few hours |
| 22:09.03 | Psi_ | if not then should definitly be on the next run at 3pm or whatever |
| 22:09.07 | xzcvczx | Psi_: i would doubt it cbd potentially requires own van/2 |
| 22:09.19 | Psi_ | oh, yeah your right |
| 22:09.26 | xzcvczx | better not be on the next run i will shoot them |
| 22:09.31 | Psi_ | heh |
| 22:09.37 | Taco | I have a neo that almost works for phone calls - the only problem is that the speaker produces a loud ~1 kHz tone that might be feedback, when calls are connected. Has anyone run into a problem like that? |
| 22:09.38 | Psi_ | damn the rootfs takes ages to upload |
| 22:09.44 | dando- | the guy developing make are real gurus |
| 22:09.45 | Psi_ | of course usb1 |
| 22:10.02 | dando- | automake = qmake = kiddies |
| 22:10.14 | ozarka | LarstiQ: Thanks. I see it in the scrollback now. It was Kensan that inquied about his device and got a response. |
| 22:10.17 | Writchie | not usb1 problem - takes about 6 minutes |
| 22:10.28 | Writchie | only loads at 64KBps |
| 22:10.31 | Henrikw | Taco: Open alsamixer and turn down the first slider, the master control. |
| 22:10.32 | Psi_ | just slow flash? |
| 22:10.54 | Writchie | no, DFU is doesn't use bulk |
| 22:10.57 | Taco | Thanks! I'll try that." |
| 22:11.07 | dando- | what most people dont know make isnt just a script. it describes a dependensy tree of sourcecode. |
| 22:11.22 | Henrikw | Taco: there are a conversation on the openmoko-owners list about this now |
| 22:11.44 | Arachnid | I can always borrow my flatmate's laptop |
| 22:11.55 | Arachnid | I don't suppose anyone's tried it in OSX yet? |
| 22:12.06 | Psi_ | you could do it from a livecd |
| 22:12.08 | abraxa_ | Arachnid: DFU-Util runs on OSX |
| 22:12.11 | LarstiQ | dando-: are you in the right channel? |
| 22:12.20 | Psi_ | i just copied the binary i386 copy of dfu-utils |
| 22:12.20 | abraxa_ | Arachnid: MokoNinja has a video about it on YouTube |
| 22:12.47 | Arachnid | Psi_: true |
| 22:12.49 | *** join/#openmoko ckueth1 (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 22:12.51 | Psi_ | yay, flash finished |
| 22:12.56 | dando- | LarstiQ: sorry about comlaining |
| 22:13.12 | Arachnid | Psi_: My desktop PC is connected by wifi - not sure what linux livecd support for it is like, though |
| 22:13.19 | *** part/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CEFBF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:13.27 | dando- | LarstiQ: read something about build systems in the mailing list |
| 22:13.27 | Psi_ | hm.. |
| 22:15.10 | xzcvczx | Psi_: the sites a bit behind doesnt even say yours has been delivered |
| 22:15.47 | LarstiQ | dando-: ah, it didn't strike me as relating to something in this channel, not following lists closely |
| 22:15.49 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: That's promising. ;) |
| 22:15.57 | Arachnid | http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380451234660 <- ,ine |
| 22:17.30 | Arachnid | er, mine |
| 22:17.30 | xzcvczx | ours all say exactly the same |
| 22:17.32 | xzcvczx | bar mine which didnt get stuck in customs |
| 22:17.32 | xzcvczx | going out of us |
| 22:17.32 | Arachnid | hm |
| 22:17.32 | Arachnid | *hopes it's on the plane to chch - or already here* |
| 22:17.32 | Psi_ | yay, its booted into X |
| 22:17.32 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: the website doesnt say it is |
| 22:17.32 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:18.08 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: the website doesn't say Psi's is delivered either though, does it? |
| 22:19.02 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: no but since it gets outsourced for the local delivery i assume that wont be updated til either middayish or 5pmish |
| 22:19.20 | Psi_ | no luck making a call though |
| 22:19.26 | Writchie | CoreDump: how did you get your power figures - they are 50ma higher than mine |
| 22:19.36 | dando- | LarstiQ: But be honest. Wouldn't it be better to just type make make install instead of ./configure make make install |
| 22:19.53 | Arachnid | http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380451234660 |
| 22:19.57 | Arachnid | oops |
| 22:20.01 | Arachnid | http://xkcd.com/281/ |
| 22:20.03 | Arachnid | :) |
| 22:20.09 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 22:20.16 | dando- | LarstiQ: ok you need another makefile for every achritecture |
| 22:20.17 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: I've never had stuff delivered by UPS locally anyway |
| 22:20.22 | Arachnid | I think it gets outsourced when it enters NZ |
| 22:20.26 | LarstiQ | dando-: wrt what? Splitting out discovery vs building vs installing makes sense to me |
| 22:20.46 | thomasg | yeah, thanks again woglinde and hrw, the workaround works :) |
| 22:21.17 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: i think they probably have a thing at chch and welly though |
| 22:21.32 | xzcvczx | the int'l airports well the real ones anyway |
| 22:21.33 | dando- | LarstiQ: BSD doesn't do discovery at all i think. |
| 22:21.33 | Arachnid | praps |
| 22:21.38 | Arachnid | Stop trying to be depressing. ;) |
| 22:21.43 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 22:22.04 | xzcvczx | but maybe the courier is coming down your road now :P |
| 22:22.06 | CoreDump|home | Writchie: I noticed. Dunno what's the diff is. |
| 22:22.28 | dando- | LarstiQ: You download the makefile for your arch. |
| 22:22.45 | Writchie | which kernel did you use |
| 22:23.18 | CoreDump|home | I used u-boot, rootfs and kernel from http://people.openmoko.org/~alphaone/images/ |
| 22:23.41 | Writchie | was your battery fully charged? |
| 22:23.44 | LarstiQ | dando-: that really is not an option. |
| 22:23.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Look_%26_Feel/de]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Talk:Carriers/ATT]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Bluetooth_Support]] [[Carriers]] [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] |
| 22:23.49 | CoreDump|home | yes |
| 22:23.53 | thomasg | alphaone's kernel and rootfs works, even if it is a very basic 2007.2 om-system |
| 22:24.12 | dando- | LarstiQ: why not. autotools destroy the best feature of make |
| 22:24.33 | Elrond | Oh, alphaone's images have basic 2007.2 support? |
| 22:24.47 | LarstiQ | drath_: I'm not a fan of autotools, but it does not destroy depdendency resolution and only rebuilding what you need to. |
| 22:25.05 | CoreDump|home | they have the new gui, yes |
| 22:25.39 | Elrond | Hmm, I would want the packages of the new UI only... to update my neo. |
| 22:25.45 | Elrond | I don't want to reflash. |
| 22:26.14 | dando- | LarstiQ: Are you sure about that? Test it |
| 22:26.29 | CoreDump|home | for whatever reason OM runs dog slow on p0 and a lot better on p1 |
| 22:26.57 | LarstiQ | dando-: I am 100% sure of that. |
| 22:26.58 | orospakr | Arachnid: that xkcd link is topic worthy ;) |
| 22:27.15 | dando- | LarstiQ: Use a Makefile generated by autotools and change just one file. you will see that every file is recompiled |
| 22:27.29 | LarstiQ | dando-: sigh, that just is not true. |
| 22:27.53 | dando- | LarstiQ: maybe just my expiriense |
| 22:28.25 | LarstiQ | dando-: it may be that you have encountered this in some situations, either due to badly written local build parts, or due to actual need |
| 22:28.34 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Huh? Really? cat /proc/cpuinfo and compare bogomips? |
| 22:28.39 | LarstiQ | say, by changing a header that is included by every file |
| 22:28.49 | Elrond | (I think, Bv03 is run at 200MHz, while Bv04 is run at 266.) |
| 22:29.07 | dando- | LarstiQ: could be |
| 22:29.26 | ckueth1 | dando-: it depends... |
| 22:29.30 | CoreDump|home | I left them at work ;) |
| 22:29.45 | ckueth1 | if it's a header, then yes, it's likely everything will have to be recompiled |
| 22:29.53 | ckueth1 | if it's just one little file, maybe not |
| 22:30.22 | ckueth1 | if that little file is made into an archive or a shared library, then more relinking is needed |
| 22:31.02 | Arachnid | xkr47: indeed :P |
| 22:31.08 | dando- | LarstiQ: maybe it is not possible to make complex dependency trees with autotools. |
| 22:31.18 | Elrond | Good night people. |
| 22:31.25 | Writchie | gn |
| 22:31.35 | LarstiQ | dando-: it is, I've got more than enough experience on that front |
| 22:31.44 | CoreDump|home | n8 elrond |
| 22:31.55 | CoreDump|home | I've updated bug #95 btw |
| 22:32.15 | Elrond | Huh... reading... |
| 22:32.25 | dando- | LarstiQ: Do you have a good link about this? |
| 22:33.07 | LarstiQ | dando-: http://sourceware.org/autobook/ is where I'd start |
| 22:33.22 | dando- | LarstiQ: Thx |
| 22:33.28 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - But /sys shows large values for you too, right? |
| 22:33.46 | CoreDump|home | not exactly, no |
| 22:33.54 | *** part/#openmoko awu (n=Miranda@port-212-202-174-138.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 22:33.56 | CoreDump|home | they are usually <1000 |
| 22:34.19 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Hmm, fun. You don't have a bv03, right? |
| 22:34.27 | CoreDump|home | I have |
| 22:34.36 | *** join/#openmoko ashnazg (n=chuckles@adsl-4-34-206.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:34.45 | CoreDump|home | but the measurements where done on bv4 |
| 22:34.57 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Ahh. I only have a bv03. |
| 22:35.18 | CoreDump|home | I'll test bv3 tomorrow |
| 22:35.24 | woglinde | nite |
| 22:35.25 | Elrond | Great. :-) |
| 22:35.29 | CoreDump|home | n8 woglinde |
| 22:35.32 | Elrond | Goot night now for real. :-) |
| 22:35.36 | CoreDump|home | ;) |
| 22:36.54 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046310.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:37.29 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046310.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:44.58 | Arachnid | Here's something to plug your openmoko into ;) http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/accessories/9223/ |
| 22:45.08 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:45.13 | noiddd | haha |
| 22:45.14 | noiddd | nice |
| 22:46.18 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-239-79-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:46.35 | xamindar | hi guys |
| 22:46.54 | noiddd | hey Xam, how goes? |
| 22:47.20 | xamindar | good, first time in the openmoko channel. Can't wait for this phone to go public |
| 22:48.36 | CoreDump|home | well, it sort-of already is ;) |
| 22:48.56 | *** join/#openmoko rick1 (n=ricky@ppp-70-128-142-78.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:49.06 | xamindar | ;) |
| 22:49.24 | xamindar | oh, anyone here running the qemu emulator of this phone? |
| 22:49.24 | aloril | xamindar: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:49.52 | xamindar | oops, i can't ask questions here. :( |
| 22:50.02 | ozarka | Sure you can. :-) |
| 22:50.12 | xamindar | oh, i just got an autotrigger |
| 22:50.17 | ozarka | I got the emulator running a few weeks ago. |
| 22:50.23 | ozarka | The autotrigger is just a helper. |
| 22:50.31 | ozarka | Doesn't mean you can't ask. |
| 22:50.48 | xamindar | thanks |
| 22:50.50 | ozarka | And you won't get it again. |
| 22:51.12 | xamindar | i was wondering if there was a way to boot up the emulator with keyboard support. |
| 22:51.28 | xamindar | as far as i know i can't get an onscreen keyboard on it |
| 22:51.49 | ozarka | IIRC, you have to "tap" a certain part of the screen. |
| 22:51.59 | ozarka | I think it's in the top left. |
| 22:52.08 | Taco | It's just a white box. |
| 22:52.12 | ozarka | I'm at work so it's not in front of me. |
| 22:52.17 | Taco | 2op "Completely unmarked. |
| 22:52.36 | xamindar | oh you are right lol |
| 22:52.37 | xamindar | thanks |
| 22:52.43 | Taco | It's directly to the right of the openmoko logo. |
| 22:52.44 | xamindar | the white box opens it |
| 22:53.01 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 22:53.03 | xamindar | i guess that hasn't been finished? |
| 22:53.08 | xamindar | but it works thanks |
| 22:53.28 | ozarka | xamindar: That was your first test. |
| 22:53.40 | ozarka | They do it like that to keep the noobs from using it. :-) |
| 22:53.46 | xamindar | lol |
| 22:53.47 | Vegar | xamindar: there's a better keyboard if you click at the very right of that white box |
| 22:53.50 | xamindar | i failed then |
| 22:54.14 | xamindar | oh cool |
| 22:55.03 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: yours has gone a bit further on tracking |
| 22:55.30 | Arachnid | It has? |
| 22:55.39 | Arachnid | Still shows as 'in transit scan' in Auckland, here |
| 22:55.39 | xzcvczx | added a hub scan in auckland |
| 22:55.44 | Arachnid | Oh, I see |
| 22:55.51 | Arachnid | The ordering is out |
| 22:56.01 | xzcvczx | not reallty |
| 22:56.15 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: i would be very surprised if you got it today |
| 22:56.21 | weez | hmm |
| 22:56.23 | Arachnid | Yeah. Sucks. :/ |
| 22:56.28 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 22:56.40 | Arachnid | Given the number of flights auckland->chch, there's no reason they _couldn't_ |
| 22:56.41 | weez | i think my battery got overdischarged |
| 22:56.55 | weez | power button does nothing |
| 22:57.17 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: but by the time it gets sorted onto said flight then sorted off said flight the last courier round would have already left there for the day |
| 22:57.20 | weez | is the recommended resuscitation 5-6 hours on USB? |
| 23:01.05 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 23:01.06 | Arachnid | Probably. :/ |
| 23:01.34 | Psi_ | heh i have no /var/log/messages is that normal? |
| 23:02.30 | arcanericky | I put some time into documenting the startup of the window manager on the Neo here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Window_Manager_Startup I would appreciate it if anyone could read through it and add to it. I hope it's a good start. |
| 23:03.17 | weez | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger |
| 23:03.19 | weez | oops |
| 23:03.24 | weez | i pressed the power button.. |
| 23:03.50 | weez | i guess i will leave it many more hours and try testing it again |
| 23:03.59 | happycube | hrw - it looks like minimix-0.8.tar.gz has been stealth-changed - got checksum errors |
| 23:05.00 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 23:05.40 | xamindar | weez: have you removed the battery and put it back? |
| 23:06.31 | xamindar | don't know about the neo yet but on my zaurus if i ever issued the shutdown command it would not turn back on until i removed the battery and put it back. |
| 23:06.35 | Psi_ | whats the current way to check what charge mode is active? |
| 23:07.24 | Writchie | the only way I know of is to build a test cable and measure it. |
| 23:07.38 | Psi_ | heh |
| 23:08.07 | xamindar | Is there a wiki that will tell me what the difference is going to be between the GTA01 and GTA02? I'm still debating whether to try to get one now or wait |
| 23:08.20 | mmazur | http://xkcd.com/281/ |
| 23:08.26 | mmazur | Someone should put that in the topic. |
| 23:08.27 | *** join/#openmoko dando1 (n=dando_@L38f0.l.pppool.de) |
| 23:08.37 | *** join/#openmoko bronson (n=bronson@66.237.74.66.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:08.51 | mwester | xamindar: there are pages on the wiki, but there are no 01's left - so the only question is how long you'll be waiting. |
| 23:09.02 | SpeedEvil | accelerometers, video accel, mono sound |
| 23:09.23 | Writchie | and a few downgrades |
| 23:09.24 | SpeedEvil | wifi |
| 23:09.24 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 23:09.36 | xamindar | oh, i am still a little confuset i guess. I thought the hardware would be different in some way. |
| 23:09.48 | xamindar | ahh, ok |
| 23:10.17 | xamindar | thanks |
| 23:10.33 | SpeedEvil | Wifi is rather a large thing, as is the video accel |
| 23:10.43 | b1303s | psi: you can look for a line like this : usb0: full speed config #1: 500 mA, Ethernet Gadget, using CDC Ethernet in /val/log/messages on your HOST |
| 23:10.49 | Writchie | onboard NAND to 256MB |
| 23:11.13 | xamindar | i must have spent an hour on the wiki last night and couldn't find that lol |
| 23:11.32 | SpeedEvil | The wiki could do with better organisation. |
| 23:11.33 | Psi_ | b1303s, yeah saw that, but i dont have a /var/log/messages |
| 23:11.57 | Psi_ | only got wtmp in /var/log/ |
| 23:12.19 | LittleIdiot | hmm, i came to work today and there they were: two black boxes with neos in them ;) |
| 23:12.29 | Psi_ | :) |
| 23:12.43 | LittleIdiot | turns out the secretary forgot about the packet - they already arrived on monday |
| 23:12.45 | b1303s | look on your host not on your neo |
| 23:12.55 | Psi_ | ah |
| 23:12.57 | Psi_ | i see |
| 23:14.25 | xzcvczx | Psi_: how big are the boxes they come in |
| 23:14.34 | xzcvczx | Psi_: i have heard they are a bit ott |
| 23:15.18 | Psi_ | 21cm cubed |
| 23:16.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2601 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/matchbox/theme.xml: Make gradient smaller and increase the panel size |
| 23:19.10 | zecke | hey |
| 23:20.36 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 23:22.14 | *** join/#openmoko codyl (n=cody@adsl-71-142-91-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 23:22.17 | jaebird | SpeedEvil: watcha waiting for :) |
| 23:22.47 | SpeedEvil | jaebird: I've done a fairly substantial amount. |
| 23:24.48 | SpeedEvil | At the moment I'm hacking on the kernel. |
| 23:25.08 | SpeedEvil | Just minor fixes. |
| 23:25.10 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
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| 23:30.38 | mrface | any c gurus in the house? |
| 23:30.41 | brianb | hi |
| 23:30.55 | brianb | what is the logo of open moko showing? |
| 23:30.55 | aloril | brianb: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 23:31.09 | mrface | probably a stupid question but maybe someone can help me |
| 23:32.40 | mrface | gchar buf[15]; sprintf(buf, "%i characters..", 15); return buf; |
| 23:33.07 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 23:33.09 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=orzo@70.89.88.195) |
| 23:33.12 | orzo | so |
| 23:33.16 | mrface | I have functions doing stuff like that, but I can't figure out the correct return type. |
| 23:33.18 | orzo | no ATT support now eh |
| 23:33.29 | mrface | gchar* gives an error |
| 23:33.37 | daMaestro | sooooo |
| 23:33.41 | daMaestro | my phone wont turn on anymore |
| 23:33.47 | mrface | uh oh |
| 23:33.59 | daMaestro | the battery went completely dead (aka i didn't charge it) and now it wont turn on at all |
| 23:34.15 | daMaestro | i just went and got a sim card too, blah |
| 23:34.34 | mrface | daMaestro: I remember someone on the mailing list had that problem and there was a solution.. don't remember off hand though |
| 23:34.47 | daMaestro | which list? |
| 23:34.50 | daMaestro | i hope there is a solution, this sucks |
| 23:34.56 | mrface | I don't know |
| 23:35.12 | mrface | do you have an internet tablet? you could recharge with that |
| 23:35.22 | daMaestro | i don't |
| 23:35.28 | daMaestro | all i have is the usb cable |
| 23:35.31 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A09606.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:35.40 | daMaestro | i've left it for about 30 minutes... and it still wont turn on |
| 23:35.43 | mjr | daMaestro, put the battery in, plug the usb cable in, let it slow-charge for a couple of hours, turn on |
| 23:36.01 | Arachnid | Well, there's definitely _a_ solution |
| 23:36.06 | daMaestro | so, it might take a couple of hours? |
| 23:36.10 | Arachnid | Worst case you could get another battery to get it started |
| 23:36.20 | Arachnid | But I'd suggest trying mjr's one first ;) |
| 23:36.26 | mjr | it's just a figure out of my ass, I'm not sure how long it can take, but it should work eventually |
| 23:36.31 | mrface | nobody has any suggestions for my c problems? |
| 23:36.57 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 23:37.12 | Arachnid | mrface: Do you have "#include <glib.h>" at the beginning of your file? |
| 23:37.25 | Arachnid | And are you using libtool to make sure you have the correct include directories? |
| 23:37.27 | *** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171) |
| 23:37.46 | Arachnid | Oh. Also, that's going to fail horribly even when it does compile - you're trying to return a pointer to something allocated on the stack. :) |
| 23:38.30 | Arachnid | You need to either have the calling function pass in a buffer (and a length, and make sure you don't/can't overrun it), or you need to dynamically allocate (malloc) the memory you return |
| 23:38.57 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 23:39.39 | arcanericky | I'm getting a build error since I've updated today. Complains about a missing "split_by_variant.sh" when building the uboot image. |
| 23:39.44 | arcanericky | Any ideas? |
| 23:40.33 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@yukon.ncct.uottawa.ca) |
| 23:40.44 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:41.49 | daMaestro | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212 |
| 23:44.06 | mjr | hmm, that's with v3 though |
| 23:45.27 | *** join/#openmoko Agent_X (n=Agent@wsip-24-120-56-2.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 23:45.30 | Agent_X | Hey hey |
| 23:45.52 | Agent_X | I've got openmoko phone.having some trouble turning it on though.. |
| 23:46.17 | *** part/#openmoko mil_ (n=tiltun@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 23:47.16 | Agent_X | Can't get it to turn on.. |
| 23:48.22 | cindy | are you holding the power button for at least 5 seconds? |
| 23:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^` (n=user@r201-221-36-140.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 23:48.42 | mrface | Arachnid: I hate malloc |
| 23:49.13 | Arachnid | mrface: Hate it or not, you can't return a pointer to something you allocated on the stack. |
| 23:49.27 | Arachnid | If you want to avoid malloc, allocate the buffer on the stack of the calling function and pass it in |
| 23:49.29 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@69-17-146-104.kingkom.com) |
| 23:50.24 | mrface | maybe I'll try that, although it makes extra working for the caller which I don't like |
| 23:50.25 | Agent_X | yes |
| 23:50.29 | mrface | this is a tough call |
| 23:50.43 | Arachnid | mrface: The alternative is malloc, in which case the caller has to free it. |
| 23:50.44 | mrface | so, I'm not using libtool, is that a problem? |
| 23:50.53 | Arachnid | You should be using libtool |
| 23:50.58 | daMaestro | mwhahahah |
| 23:51.00 | Arachnid | You also need to include glib.h, if you're not already |
| 23:51.04 | daMaestro | ok, so i got it to boot |
| 23:51.04 | mrface | oh ok |
| 23:51.12 | mrface | yeah, glib.h is included |
| 23:51.35 | mrface | thanks a lot dude, I guess I better figure out how to use libtool |
| 23:51.37 | daMaestro | i borrowed my friends battery... forced it to make contact for about a minute (batter was smaller but same voltage) |
| 23:51.41 | Arachnid | Oops, my mistake |
| 23:51.45 | Arachnid | glib uses pkg-config |
| 23:51.46 | Arachnid | http://groups.google.com/groups/sqlalchemy |
| 23:51.49 | Arachnid | oops |
| 23:51.53 | Arachnid | http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/glib/glib-compiling.html |
| 23:51.55 | daMaestro | didn't boot... so i gave up... plugged my batter back in and plugged into a usb 1.1 port, and now it has booted |
| 23:52.07 | Arachnid | ^ see there for how to configure your makefile to build and link against glib |
| 23:52.12 | daMaestro | anyways.. that battery issue is *really* *REAALLLYYYY* bad |
| 23:52.50 | daMaestro | FIC needs to send everyone charges that will allow us to get out of this horrible issue, or an extra battery. |
| 23:53.08 | daMaestro | s/charges/chargers/ |
| 23:53.17 | mrface | cool, that's really helpful |
| 23:53.17 | Arachnid | Some sort of fix is needed, yes |
| 23:53.31 | daMaestro | i was scared i broke it already |
| 23:53.34 | Arachnid | My motorola charges over USB, but has a standalone charger that works even if it's dead |
| 23:53.46 | mjr | although you weren't very patient with the usb trickle charging attempt... |
| 23:53.50 | Arachnid | Though did you establish if leaving it on USB1.1 for long enough would work? |
| 23:53.53 | daMaestro | yea, i had tried a motorola charger @ tmobile |
| 23:54.00 | mrface | Arachnid: is there a similar method for using gconf? |
| 23:54.02 | Arachnid | It may be able to trickle-charge |
| 23:54.14 | Arachnid | mrface: No idea, sorry |
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| 23:54.20 | cindy | Agent_X, did you try powering on into boot mode? (holding the AUX button and power button for 5+ seconds) |
| 23:54.23 | mrface | ok, thanks anyway |
| 23:54.28 | Arachnid | What's the problem with using the method outlined in the glib manual? |
| 23:54.34 | cesarb | Arachnid: AFAIK, they also have a way of detecting a "dumb" charger, which gives more than the 500mA... |
| 23:54.35 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 23:54.57 | Arachnid | cesarb: Last I saw, they were talking about that, but hadn't implemented it yet |
| 23:55.04 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:55.12 | Arachnid | but that'd only work if it's booted anyway |
| 23:55.24 | mjr | the Neo doesn't currently AFAIK detect a dumb charger, so a wall charger would just trickle charge anyway |
| 23:55.32 | linux_galore | ello moko nuts |
| 23:55.41 | Arachnid | mrface: gconf doesn't sound like it's the right tool anyway: "GConf is a system for storing application preferences. It is intended for user preferences; not configuration of something like Apache, or arbitrary data storage." |
| 23:56.37 | linux_galore | arcanericky: yep good old /etc |
| 23:56.53 | cesarb | Arachnid: it's possible that the PMU Motorola uses is able to detect the dumb charger (and perhaps only it) when without battery power |
| 23:57.05 | linux_galore | oops meant for Arachnid: |
| 23:57.38 | Arachnid | cesarb: I think it must, yes |
| 23:58.14 | Arachnid | Either that or the dumb charger makes use of the spare 5th pin on the mini USB plug |
| 23:58.36 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 23:58.51 | mrface | arachnid: my program has user preferences. I think you're right the glib method will probably work fine |
| 23:58.56 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 23:59.46 | SpeedEvil | The 'proper' neo charger has 48K from the 5th pin to ground. |
