| 00:00.11 | Qwell | Arachnid: I have need for a bag that seals on the side. |
| 00:00.20 | Qwell | any tips for that? |
| 00:00.26 | Arachnid | Qwell: That's slightly more complicated, but still achievable. |
| 00:00.43 | Arachnid | Place your bag on a flat surface, grip it firmly with one hand, and rotate 90 degrees clockwise. |
| 00:00.50 | mjr | daMaestro, seeing about compiling a squashfs xen kernel at the side here btw :] |
| 00:00.53 | Arachnid | If you need to to seal on the left instead of the right, you can flip it first. |
| 00:00.58 | mjr | might go to sleep before long though |
| 00:01.24 | daMaestro | mjr, awesome |
| 00:01.28 | daMaestro | mjr, let me know (it should work) |
| 00:01.49 | daMaestro | mjr, i've got a live image that will run as both a full virt and a domU ... (which is in squashfs) |
| 00:01.53 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 00:02.01 | SpeedEvil | On smooth scrolling. |
| 00:02.11 | SpeedEvil | The LCD controller supports virtual screens. |
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| 00:02.21 | mjr | daMaestro, yeah, I'm mostly wondering if I integrated the patch properly into the .deb build process |
| 00:02.21 | SpeedEvil | This will give us _very_ smooth full-screen scrolling. |
| 00:02.36 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, awesome! |
| 00:02.37 | SpeedEvil | The disadvantage is that it will scroll the whole screen only. |
| 00:02.37 | daMaestro | :-D |
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| 00:02.47 | SpeedEvil | Including any window decorations. |
| 00:03.01 | mjr | yeah, that scrolling thing. Might be useful for some mapping though |
| 00:03.06 | mjr | and/or games |
| 00:03.19 | SpeedEvil | It will reduce the amount of data you need to draw though. |
| 00:03.31 | SpeedEvil | As you only need to redraw the 'decoration' on the screen. |
| 00:03.35 | SpeedEvil | Not the main panel. |
| 00:03.42 | mjr | SpeedEvil, interesting viewpoint |
| 00:03.44 | SpeedEvil | For some scrolling cases. |
| 00:03.52 | daMaestro | i can now really see a post market mod for a usb based plugin so you can have a gaming or full keyboard right on the device |
| 00:03.53 | Vegar | could it be used for full-screen apps? |
| 00:03.56 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 00:04.20 | SpeedEvil | you can have a large map - say 1000*1000, and scroll about it using no CPU full-screen. |
| 00:04.28 | SpeedEvil | well - that's not strictly true. |
| 00:04.37 | SpeedEvil | it does need to update the registers. |
| 00:05.02 | happycube | that's basically no cpu ;) |
| 00:05.22 | mjr | Which brings into mind, can we switch into QVGA mode yet? (Nothing critical, just wondering) |
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| 00:05.27 | *** part/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 00:05.30 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 00:05.42 | SpeedEvil | mjr: that's on the LCD side, not the CPU |
| 00:06.11 | mjr | yeah I seem to recall so, doesn't really matter for the question though :) |
| 00:07.08 | SpeedEvil | One possibly interesting option would be 8-bit - 256 entry pallette operation. This will save a few milliwatts. |
| 00:07.23 | SpeedEvil | As it drastically reduces memory bus bandwidth. |
| 00:07.32 | mjr | the hardware can do that? |
| 00:07.34 | SpeedEvil | It's probably not worth the coding effort though. |
| 00:07.48 | mjr | yeah, it's kinda passe ;) |
| 00:07.54 | Arachnid | Is there a lot of coding effort? Can't you simply switch X to use that display mode? |
| 00:08.04 | SpeedEvil | I think so. |
| 00:08.17 | SpeedEvil | In theory. In practice, the apps all have to support it too. |
| 00:09.01 | SpeedEvil | Passe - yes - Is an extra 2-5% of battery life worth it though? |
| 00:09.27 | SpeedEvil | It would have to have seamless switching. |
| 00:09.52 | unknown_lamer | mjr: just have the panel reserve 64 or so colors |
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| 00:10.00 | SpeedEvil | But, for example, many of the fullscreen apps won't use the full 24 bit colour gamut. |
| 00:10.05 | unknown_lamer | windowmaker does that and it works rather well on the old sgi machines at school for me |
| 00:10.29 | mjr | unknown_lamer, the point of a private colormap is that it gives an app all the colors, when it is in focus |
| 00:10.38 | mickeyl | iirc there is now fbset support for qvga mode on the Neo, but don't quote me on that |
| 00:10.42 | mickeyl | i know stefan_schmidt worked on that |
| 00:10.44 | Arachnid | SpeedEvil: Isn't the app supporting it just a matter of the graphics API they use supporting it? |
| 00:10.48 | SpeedEvil | However. You are talking about an extra 7ish minutes of battery life in full mode. |
| 00:10.51 | mjr | mickeyl, ack |
| 00:10.55 | Arachnid | You tell it to draw in full-color and it dithers for the display/ |
| 00:10.58 | SpeedEvil | Arachnid: it's more a matter of colour choices. |
| 00:11.00 | unknown_lamer | mjr: right, but the wm by virtue of owning the root window can reserve a certain number of colors for itself that clients cannot steal |
| 00:11.15 | Arachnid | Or you explicitly draw in 256 color mode if you want more control |
| 00:11.39 | CoreDump|afk | did anyone try the buildhost image from july, 28th? |
| 00:11.44 | mjr | unknown_lamer, oh. Hmm. Ah well. |
| 00:11.45 | CoreDump|afk | it's missing all icons... |
| 00:12.33 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: There is a QVGA fullscreen mode. Patches are not complete ready and a bit outdated right now. Still need to fix them up. Perhaps next week. |
| 00:12.48 | stefan_schmidt | For interested people: http://people.openmoko.org/stefan/patches/LCM-QVGA/ |
| 00:14.11 | thomasg_ | what do you think about this as possible vkbd? http://gstaedtner.net/enter.ogg (I write HelloWorld here, output is at momant only printf and I couldn't record this ^^) |
| 00:14.19 | mjr | Goodie; I think I have enough to study for now without those. But nice that they're coming. Will make running sopwith lighter on the cpu ;) |
| 00:15.18 | Arachnid | You're going to run a WW1 biplane on the Neo? |
| 00:15.32 | mjr | Arachnid, you're god-damn right |
| 00:15.51 | mjr | (and yes I have a BT keypad for controls) |
| 00:17.04 | Arachnid | heh |
| 00:17.10 | daMaestro | mjr, awesome |
| 00:17.30 | daMaestro | i'm trying to get prboom built and installed |
| 00:17.37 | daMaestro | with the Free wads |
| 00:17.41 | mjr | :) |
| 00:17.53 | daMaestro | i just don't know ipkg at all |
| 00:18.34 | daMaestro | so iirc we are supposed to get something like apt? |
| 00:18.40 | mjr | would be closer to dpkg, but they're not so different, just different places to stick stuff |
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| 00:18.57 | daMaestro | yeah, i never learned dpkg, only how to use it |
| 00:20.42 | mwester | ipkg is dirt-simple, which is it's biggest strength, as well as a huge problem. |
| 00:21.26 | mjr | wiki search failed; can the usb port at this moment be switched to host mode? |
| 00:21.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt_Main]] |
| 00:21.44 | mjr | I mean with the current kernel image / drivers |
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| 00:29.50 | mjr | the wiki could use a page that documents Neo-particular /sys and /proc stuff |
| 00:30.06 | SpeedEvil | Is the neo memory 16 or 32 bits wide? |
| 00:30.49 | mjr | it's 1073741824 bits wide |
| 00:31.00 | mjr | (yeah, I think I should get some sleep too) |
| 00:32.03 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-26-98.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 00:32.11 | dmwit | ...what are the last two bits used for? |
| 00:32.12 | aloril | dmwit: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:33.52 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 00:34.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 670 has been created by kyoung(AT)cfa.harvard.edu |
| 00:34.01 | cdbot2 | * * neo1973 forgets system time when rebooted |
| 00:34.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=670 |
| 00:34.27 | SpeedEvil | It needs to be at least 80Mhz. |
| 00:34.37 | SpeedEvil | For VGA. |
| 00:34.44 | SpeedEvil | QVGA is 19. |
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| 00:35.25 | SpeedEvil | Which in practice means 32Mhz |
| 00:38.40 | Writchie | SpeedEveil: Are you asuming 16 bit color? |
| 00:40.00 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: no - the width of the RAM chip I mean. |
| 00:40.17 | Writchie | no I mean in coming up with 80Mhz |
| 00:40.51 | SpeedEvil | I'm looking at P386 of the datasheet. |
| 00:41.00 | SpeedEvil | HCLK >VCLK*4 |
| 00:41.07 | SpeedEvil | and 640*480*60 = 19Mhz |
| 00:41.27 | SpeedEvil | And HCLK <FCLK |
| 00:41.33 | SpeedEvil | and FCLK is the CPU frequency |
| 00:41.59 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=nnnnrwhi@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 00:42.58 | Writchie | you looking at rev 1.1 UM? |
| 00:43.48 | SpeedEvil | um_s3c2410s_rev12_030428.pdf |
| 00:44.11 | Writchie | Where did you get rev12? |
| 00:45.07 | SpeedEvil | Dunno. |
| 00:45.18 | SpeedEvil | Hang on. |
| 00:45.39 | Writchie | i just found it in korea linux group, hold on. |
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| 00:45.55 | Writchie | hope its in english |
| 00:46.08 | SpeedEvil | It si. |
| 00:46.47 | SpeedEvil | Googling the name reveals www.hhcn.org/maindoc/um_s3c2410s_rev12_030428.pdf |
| 00:47.08 | SpeedEvil | http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/SystemLSI/MobileSolution |
| 00:47.08 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:47.08 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:47.12 | SpeedEvil | or that |
| 00:47.50 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: but the CPU on the neo is S3C2410A, not S3C2410S or something which starts with S... |
| 00:48.34 | BryceLeo | will the gta01 debug board work with the gta02? |
| 00:49.38 | Writchie | BryceLeo: I believe i heard no |
| 00:50.18 | rwhitby | I heard yes, but not for GTA03 |
| 00:50.41 | BryceLeo | haha good so it's a definate maybe |
| 00:50.43 | Writchie | rwhitby: you're mostly likely right |
| 00:51.00 | Writchie | maybe is always more correct |
| 00:51.04 | Writchie | until you see it |
| 00:51.15 | SpeedEvil | This is the generic datasheet covering all the variants - AIUI |
| 00:51.29 | BryceLeo | i mean i could see getting an 01 and updating to the 02 as long as i don't have to buy two advanced kits |
| 00:51.35 | BryceLeo | (i have a tendency to brick things) |
| 00:51.47 | ckuethe | BryceLeo: last i heard, you'd just need a different debug cable |
| 00:52.15 | Writchie | I think bricking is unlikely unless you are working on uboot |
| 00:52.17 | BryceLeo | ckuethe: well that sounds perfect to me |
| 00:52.22 | ckuethe | something about the jtag board itself being useful, but the phone-debug cable would be different |
| 00:52.42 | BryceLeo | well, my bricking was pretty unlucky one was a flash of a bad download and the other was a flash and the power went out |
| 00:52.43 | ckuethe | especially since it's supposed to present a fairly generic jtag interface for talking to all things ARM.... |
| 00:53.05 | BryceLeo | ckuethe: that makes sense to me, looks like i'm saving up the moola |
| 00:53.08 | ckuethe | and from that you learned to always have a big fat UPS between your debug station and the wall... |
| 00:53.30 | Writchie | the board is worth it - just not for just unbricking |
| 00:53.57 | BryceLeo | Writchie: yes i realize it's not just for that, but that's the main concern, and i would like to play around with the other features |
| 00:54.08 | BryceLeo | do you guys think that they're gonna do the full production run for all the orders? or do you figure that they're going to say sorry to the last X number of orders? |
| 00:54.33 | cjb | they'll just keep making more. |
| 00:55.00 | Writchie | i would suspect GT02 later than October |
| 00:55.09 | BryceLeo | ckuethe: lol yeah i got 2 big aps units in my room now |
| 00:55.14 | Writchie | I would suspect they will keep running GT01's |
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| 00:55.31 | BryceLeo | i'm personally expecting the gta02 in december, maybe in time for christmas |
| 00:55.42 | Writchie | Me, i'm more interested in GTA03 |
| 00:55.42 | ckuethe | friend of mine lost his core switch, ap, digital cable receiver and microwave to an electrical storm on saturday night |
| 00:55.51 | cesarb | I'm expecting GTA02 next year |
| 00:56.08 | ckuethe | i'm not expecting it at all... it'll be here when it's here and no sooner than that. |
| 00:56.24 | BryceLeo | ckuethe: ouch... that's rough, last year i lost a $1500 pioneer elite reciever |
| 00:56.31 | cesarb | Of course, because of Hofstadter's, all guesswork is pointless |
| 00:56.34 | BryceLeo | ckuethe: i just didn't apply the good lessson all around |
| 00:56.45 | ckuethe | there are tons of crappy products out there because they were rushed to market |
| 00:56.48 | BryceLeo | hofstadters? |
| 00:56.49 | Writchie | this is why you need 48VDC power |
| 00:56.57 | BryceLeo | Writchie: lol |
| 00:57.03 | cesarb | BryceLeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter's_Law |
| 00:57.08 | ckuethe | Writchie: your 48VDC has to come from somewhere... |
| 00:57.08 | BryceLeo | where have you guys been seeing news about gta03? |
| 00:57.27 | Writchie | 2v lead acid batteries |
| 00:57.35 | ckuethe | which will eventually run down |
| 00:57.41 | BryceLeo | cesarb: lol good law |
| 00:57.50 | ckuethe | the general lesson is "make sure you have good clean reliable power" |
| 00:58.03 | BryceLeo | cesarb: how did you like the app dev crash course? any critique/criticism? |
| 00:58.17 | Writchie | personally, i preferred it when computers had an MG set |
| 01:00.47 | cesarb | BryceLeo: you do not need the comentary on /home/moko, since I've purged that path from the mokomakefile wiki page, and the part on setup-env is a bit unclear, as you can see by the talk page |
| 01:00.55 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: I like this "these two HCLKs may cause a confusion" |
| 01:01.38 | cesarb | BryceLeo: other than that, looks good, but I haven't looked at it closely |
| 01:02.42 | BryceLeo | cesarb: alrighty sounds good, i'll fix that up |
| 01:05.12 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I downloaded that "rev12" manual and took a look |
| 01:05.28 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: not only it seems to be for a different SOC, it's _older_ than the "rev11" I have |
| 01:05.40 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: sorry if it changes all your calculations ;-) |
| 01:06.09 | SpeedEvil | Dunno - I'll check. |
| 01:06.29 | SpeedEvil | Interestingly - the part number decoder says that the version in the neo has 48K ROM |
| 01:06.37 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: the date of the "rev11" one is 2007, the "rev12" one is 2003 |
| 01:06.43 | SpeedEvil | That's what the 'A' is. |
| 01:07.23 | moko-bunny | *sigh* why did FIC have the delivery require an adult signature? :( |
| 01:07.36 | cesarb | moko-bunny: FIC, or UPS? |
| 01:08.02 | moko-bunny | I'm guessing FIC....UPS normally leaves everything at my door...they don't even knock when I'm here |
| 01:08.58 | moko-bunny | oh well, I'll pick it up tomorrow |
| 01:09.39 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I'm going mostly by what's on the wiki, since my RT# is on the 3500s |
| 01:10.36 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: and the link it had was to the "rev11" thing, at least before the confusing flash-ladden deep-directory-hierarchy site it was in danced things around |
| 01:11.04 | SpeedEvil | Basically the same. |
| 01:11.19 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: Looks more like 60 Mhz for vga taking 58% of bus bandwidth. |
| 01:11.30 | SpeedEvil | At what clock speed? |
| 01:11.52 | SpeedEvil | Is that FCLK=HCLK=60Mhz? |
| 01:11.53 | Writchie | HCLK 60Mz |
| 01:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z67e6.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:12.14 | SpeedEvil | Actually - the memory bus is on HCLK isn't it. |
| 01:12.56 | Writchie | I think so |
| 01:13.20 | rtm_ | Has anyone seen the following problem: the neo can place outgoing calls which connect successfully, but neither the speak nor the microphone seems to work? The phone connects, but no audio flowes in either direction. |
| 01:13.23 | Writchie | SDRAM's at high rate are a very big power hit |
| 01:13.36 | cesarb | Can anyone write to the emulated SD card on the emulated Neo? All I get is "s3c_mmci_write: Bad register 0x38" and nothing seems to get written at all |
| 01:13.54 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: indeed - I'd like hard power numbers. |
| 01:14.00 | BryceLeo | cesarb: i've got the same problem |
| 01:14.04 | cesarb | rtm_: that means you didn't configure the codec correctly |
| 01:14.21 | SpeedEvil | But I'm waiting on power. |
| 01:14.22 | rtm_ | How do I configure the codec? |
| 01:14.28 | Writchie | can get good numbers for the micron parts, probably similar |
| 01:14.36 | rtm_ | Is that explained somewhere? |
| 01:14.43 | cesarb | rtm_: yes |
| 01:14.45 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: that'd be interesting. |
| 01:15.10 | Writchie | in the end you have to measure it, but calculations should be within 20% |
| 01:15.43 | Writchie | i haven't speed much time on it here because it is what it is! |
| 01:15.46 | rtm_ | cesarb: Do you know where that is explained? |
| 01:16.24 | Writchie | wonder if we could clock lcd at 30hz refresh a dim the backlight and get away with it? |
| 01:16.30 | SpeedEvil | Ah. It's http://www.samsung.com/global/system/business/semiconductor/product/2007/6/11/MobileSDRAM/MobileSDRSDRAM/512Mbit/K4M511633C/ds_k4m511633c.pdf |
| 01:16.44 | SpeedEvil | IMO, the right way to do that is to drop to QVGA mode. |
| 01:16.51 | Writchie | as well |
| 01:17.00 | cesarb | rtm_: I'm not finding the page with the long explanation on the audio subsystem right now, but http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM has some of the alsa commands which were used back then |
| 01:17.09 | SpeedEvil | QVGA mode takes you below the clock minimum anyway. |
| 01:17.26 | Writchie | PM on this chip sucks compared to many others |
| 01:17.57 | SpeedEvil | 8 bit 256 colour mode then takes it down to 4.7Mhz |
| 01:18.07 | SpeedEvil | Err. |
| 01:18.10 | SpeedEvil | Mbytes/s |
| 01:18.29 | Writchie | but its 4 bytes wide I think |
| 01:18.36 | SpeedEvil | it is. |
| 01:18.49 | rtm_ | cesarb: Yes, I've looked at tha manual GSM page. It doesn't mention codec, though. |
| 01:18.57 | Writchie | it's also burst on the sdram |
| 01:19.08 | cesarb | rtm_: the codec is controlled via alsa, search for alsa |
| 01:19.12 | SpeedEvil | It's I think 4 byte burst though only. |
| 01:19.25 | galexande | has anyone done bandwidth tests for vram? |
| 01:19.42 | galexande | rtm, have you tried looking in alsa mixer and making sure the volumes are turned up and not muted and that recsrc is set to mic? |
| 01:19.44 | Writchie | i'll have to look, should be programmable on sdram controller |
| 01:20.14 | SpeedEvil | I'm guessing that it'll be around 133Mhz * 4byte |
| 01:20.18 | rtm_ | cesarb: Do you know what the codec should be? And why wouldn't the proper one be set in the rootfs image? |
| 01:20.22 | SpeedEvil | == 600Mbytes/sec. |
| 01:20.38 | cesarb | rtm_: the codec is the chip |
| 01:20.42 | SpeedEvil | That's at maximum speed. |
| 01:20.48 | cesarb | rtm_: you have to load the correct configuration on it |
| 01:20.59 | cesarb | rtm_: (sound chip I mean) |
| 01:21.12 | galexande | speed, that's not too bad, though i wonder how many uh "virtual wait states" are introduced by the video doing its dma |
| 01:21.23 | cesarb | rtm_: there are several configurations; for instance, doing a call via BT is very different than playing an MP3 to the headset |
| 01:21.45 | cesarb | rtm_: and they are kinda complex, so it's best to get a working state file and ask the alsa commands to load it |
| 01:22.03 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 01:22.25 | rtm_ | cesarb: Thanks - I'll try to do that. |
| 01:22.47 | SpeedEvil | galexande: It's not _too_ bad. you're looking at 55Mbytes/sec or so. galexande - maybe 15% or so at max speed. |
| 01:22.58 | moko-bunny | hopefully this isn't too dumb of a question... how does one "bitbake -cclean openmoko-rssreader" and then "update svn". (I'm using mokomakefile) |
| 01:23.19 | Writchie | the cache helps a lot. |
| 01:23.45 | Writchie | but i think the blting through memory will be the stress |
| 01:24.20 | Writchie | you have both the lcd plus read and write on the blts |
| 01:24.22 | cesarb | It would be sooo easier if we could just ask the screen "self-refresh yourself, I'm gonna take a nap" |
| 01:24.44 | Writchie | next generation will do precisely that |
| 01:25.21 | Writchie | actually, with e-paper you can just flash and the paper surface holds |
| 01:25.37 | Writchie | 5 years out at least |
| 01:26.08 | cesarb | moko-bunny: the first one is "make clean-package-openmoko-rssreader" |
| 01:26.09 | SpeedEvil | Ok - as I see it - burst mode is 100mA or 300mW, or 600mW for both. |
| 01:26.14 | Writchie | oled with onboard memory will solve the power problem. |
| 01:26.27 | BryceLeo | Writchie: epaper is already in a consumer phone in the US, it's got a chance for next year or year after |
| 01:26.29 | SpeedEvil | OLED isn't really frugal. |
| 01:26.48 | SpeedEvil | So, 60mW-90mW is probably a reasonable guess. |
| 01:26.56 | cesarb | moko-bunny: the second one is "make update-openmoko" (but most of the time you'll do "make update" instead) |
| 01:27.00 | SpeedEvil | For the LCD running. |
| 01:27.06 | BryceLeo | OLED isn't going anywhere till they can make them so that they stop dimming in a couple years |
| 01:27.19 | SpeedEvil | So, maybe a 60mW saving going to QVGA |
| 01:27.24 | Writchie | 100ma sounds reasonable |
| 01:27.37 | Writchie | that's just the sdram |
| 01:27.42 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 01:27.48 | juri_ | bryce: 1500 hours for the average blue oled. |
| 01:28.03 | moko-bunny | cesarb: thanks...hopefully my ubuntu install isn't borked...had to manual install because of software RAID :-/ |
| 01:28.18 | SpeedEvil | 500mW or so is the backlight anyway. |
| 01:28.26 | SpeedEvil | So the saving is _relatively_ small. |
| 01:28.31 | BryceLeo | juri_: that's still not too good... |
| 01:28.42 | Writchie | 500mw at full? |
| 01:28.47 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 01:28.51 | cesarb | moko-bunny: if you got to the point where you had webkit problems and had to do these things to update to a working revision, it can't be that broken... |
| 01:29.00 | SpeedEvil | That's a very dubious power number from one source though. |
| 01:29.13 | Writchie | you just slowly drop backlight to 20% so user doesn't notice |
| 01:29.29 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: you could do like the razr, where the longest timeout for the backlight is 20s (and the default is way smaller than that) ;-) |
| 01:29.33 | juri_ | bryce: no, its not. |
| 01:29.54 | moko-bunny | cesarb: yeah, it seems to work fine otherwise..I don't have sound up or X optimized yet, but meh :) |
| 01:29.57 | cesarb | (very annoying btw, I used IIRC 1 or 2 min on my Zire 72) |
| 01:29.58 | juri_ | my projector system cooks a bulb every 1500 hours or so. |
| 01:30.32 | BryceLeo | heh, i use my phone alot more often than i use my projector! |
| 01:30.34 | Writchie | could really use an ambient light sensor |
| 01:30.44 | SpeedEvil | Anyone with hardware, a DMM, and a spare USB lead? |
| 01:30.52 | cesarb | Writchie: wasn't one planned for phase 2? |
| 01:30.57 | Writchie | i hope |
| 01:31.17 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: I setup to measure. |
| 01:31.29 | SpeedEvil | You've got a neo? |
| 01:31.31 | Writchie | I will use scope |
| 01:31.38 | Writchie | yeah I have two of them |
| 01:31.49 | cesarb | Well, how about the following way of faking it: use the lightest setting by default, and the user can click on a corner to increase (even if he can't see the screen) if he's outdoors |
| 01:32.18 | Writchie | i always asume the dumb ass user is - well - dumb? |
| 01:32.19 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Unresolved_Hardware_Questions |
| 01:32.30 | SpeedEvil | Including suggestions of what might be nice to measure. |
| 01:33.12 | SpeedEvil | Plus - having to touch the screen to alter brightness is silly. |
| 01:33.15 | Writchie | will try to do this tommorrow - atm I don't trust the charging |
| 01:33.21 | SpeedEvil | Most people will leave it at 100% |
| 01:33.28 | ferric | counter |
| 01:33.28 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in a day 17:13:16 (1.718±1.7 days) (1785;251) |
| 01:33.29 | cesarb | hm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo1973 could use a real picture of a neo |
| 01:33.34 | ferric | doh |
| 01:33.47 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I leave the brightness at the minimum on all my gadgets. always. |
| 01:34.04 | SpeedEvil | Well - if you go outside, that might not work so well. |
| 01:34.06 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: it saves a lot of battery, and most of the time is more than enough |
| 01:34.20 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: when I'm outside, I have to squint a bit, of course ;-) |
| 01:34.20 | ferric | cesarb never goes outside. |
| 01:34.20 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 01:34.32 | ferric | (he is an evil dark monster) |
| 01:34.53 | SpeedEvil | I want an expansion back with the entire back as e-ink. |
| 01:34.55 | cesarb | ferric: er, I walk about 15 minutes to work. uphill. both ways. twice a day (since I eat luch near the bus stop) |
| 01:34.56 | Writchie | i don't suppose they instrumented the charge circuitry |
| 01:35.01 | SpeedEvil | But that's hard. |
| 01:35.07 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: I don't think so. |
| 01:35.09 | ferric | cesarb: that must be hard for you during daylight! |
| 01:35.10 | cesarb | (ok, it's uphill one way, downhill the other) |
| 01:35.14 | ferric | haha |
| 01:35.16 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: look round /proc and /sys |
| 01:35.20 | ferric | uphill bothways got me thinking. |
| 01:35.47 | ferric | SpeedEvil: liek the moto e-ink phone? |
| 01:35.54 | Writchie | you mention'd led's - are these supposed to be in P1 |
| 01:35.58 | SpeedEvil | ferric: no - the _entire_ back. |
| 01:36.01 | SpeedEvil | P2 |
| 01:36.03 | SpeedEvil | only. |
| 01:36.22 | Writchie | under control of processor or charge circuitry |
| 01:36.22 | ferric | SpeedEvil: back is e-ink front is touchscreen?! |
| 01:36.38 | SpeedEvil | Basically. |
| 01:36.52 | SpeedEvil | A colour display is a nice addition. |
| 01:36.56 | galexande | writchie, i believe charging is handled by a single chip "power solution" |
| 01:36.57 | ferric | and there is a 5" thick book in the middle to handle that :P |
| 01:37.01 | SpeedEvil | E-ink is mono, and grayscale sucks. |
| 01:37.33 | happycube | e-ink's refresh is incredibly slow |
| 01:37.37 | SpeedEvil | That too. |
| 01:37.38 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 01:37.45 | SpeedEvil | And it has high 'bad pixel' rate. |
| 01:38.27 | Writchie | galexande: if so no charge led indicator is not much of a solution ;) |
| 01:38.35 | Writchie | looking at the philips part now |
| 01:39.03 | galexande | writchie, ah i was about to url you to it :) |
| 01:41.44 | galexande | it looks pretty awesome to me. |
| 01:43.40 | galexande | it seems to me like this sucker is capable of producing plenty of +5V for USB, i wonder what they are using that output for. |
| 01:44.02 | ferric | anti-theft measures. |
| 01:44.37 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:44.56 | galexande | joke? :) |
| 01:45.19 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing_ (n=dan@wsip-70-184-147-28.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 01:46.01 | cesarb | rwhitby: I have a new patch for mokomakefile at http://www.pastebin.ca/640065, which creates a virtual SD card to ease copying of .ipk files to be installed on the image (complete with a copy-package-% target to do all the work for you) |
| 01:46.54 | cesarb | rwhitby: the created SD image is a sparse file (uses only 1M when empty), and needs dosfstools which most distros should already have installed by default (it's used for /sbin/fsck.vfat) |
| 01:47.15 | cesarb | rwhitby: the copy-package-% target needs mtools |
| 01:47.43 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-76-204-97-155.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:47.54 | cesarb | rwhitby: this makes it easier to copy files _to_ the emulated neo; copying _from_ is harder since write support for the emulated SD card seems to be broken |
| 01:50.15 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:51.08 | rtm_ | cesarb: THanks for your help - I can now hear my calls. I'd have never figured that out on my own. |
| 01:51.54 | cesarb | rwhitby: better version: http://www.pastebin.ca/640072, which adds -v to the mcopy call so the user can see what was actually copied |
| 01:52.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 671 has been created by <autobuild-report> |
| 01:52.02 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svn20070722-r1-do_configure |
| 01:52.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=671 |
| 01:53.21 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@dsl-64-30-214-21.static.linkline.com) |
| 01:53.28 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@dsl-64-30-214-21.static.linkline.com) |
| 01:55.18 | Writchie | anybody know if the GTA01 has a backup battery? |
| 01:55.38 | cesarb | Writchie: it has a small battery on one corner, check the photos... |
| 01:55.38 | SpeedEvil | yes, it does. |
| 01:55.55 | cesarb | Writchie: but I don't know which of the many RTCs it's connected to |
| 01:56.21 | happycube | rssreader's expecting webkitgtk now... guess webkit's not in |
| 01:56.28 | Writchie | i was thinking of PM chip, which would suck if didn't have one |
| 01:56.32 | SpeedEvil | The Neo1973 Power Managment page may list it |
| 01:56.49 | SpeedEvil | I _really_ hope they diddn't screw that up. |
| 01:56.58 | SpeedEvil | As it'd make GPS stuff quite hard. |
| 01:57.09 | Writchie | would explain the funky charge behaviour |
| 01:57.26 | cesarb | If the RTC on the GSM module is the only one which survives battery removal, it means gsmd would have to update it once in a while... and then get back the time from it on boot if the PM RTC has a broken time... |
| 01:57.33 | SpeedEvil | Look for oscillation on the 32Khz xtal, if you can see it. |
| 01:58.13 | Writchie | hey, i only have two of these |
| 01:58.28 | SpeedEvil | I just mean if you can see it - not rip cans off :) |
| 01:58.54 | BryceLeo | lol |
| 01:59.19 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 02:00.10 | Writchie | btw, the sim and microsd holders are completely unsuitable for Americans |
| 02:00.24 | Writchie | they will break them in first 5 minutes |
| 02:00.36 | Writchie | i.e. if they can get the case open |
| 02:01.10 | rtm_ | Writchie - gee, I thought I had my webcam turned off. |
| 02:02.00 | happycube | lol |
| 02:02.12 | happycube | i noticed the microsd seemed a bit light ;) |
| 02:02.16 | happycube | (didn't break it) |
| 02:02.42 | Writchie | it's not a user servicable part |
| 02:03.42 | happycube | lol |
| 02:04.11 | BryceLeo | wait a sec.... did anyone ever post a link to this info about a gta03? |
| 02:04.22 | BryceLeo | i'd swear someone id dbut i can't find it... |
| 02:05.36 | Writchie | gta01 = RC1, gta02 = RC2, gta03 real device |
| 02:06.19 | BryceLeo | ahh so gta03 is gonna have the accelermometers, wifi etc |
| 02:06.50 | Writchie | no GTA02 will have these |
| 02:06.50 | SpeedEvil | No - 02 has the accels. |
| 02:07.06 | SpeedEvil | 03 hasn't been revealed AIUI. |
| 02:07.06 | BryceLeo | so what does 03 have that 02 doesn't? |
| 02:07.10 | SpeedEvil | It's speculation. |
| 02:07.13 | Writchie | user input |
| 02:07.16 | BryceLeo | oh... well that's all ya had to say!! |
| 02:07.41 | Writchie | with a closed phone you buy it when development is done |
| 02:07.46 | Writchie | it will never get better |
| 02:07.56 | Writchie | with open phone you buy it when development begins |
| 02:08.01 | Writchie | it gets better |
| 02:08.06 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:08.11 | rtm_ | The iPhone might get better. |
| 02:08.17 | Writchie | dream on |
| 02:08.29 | rtm_ | t |
| 02:08.37 | Writchie | current iPhone is end of design - they will put nothing more into it. |
| 02:08.38 | rtm_ | The iPhone better get better. |
| 02:08.39 | SpeedEvil | rtm: you don't think they'll do exactly what sony/PSP did - and patch the holes? |
| 02:08.49 | Writchie | i'm refer to models |
| 02:09.09 | BryceLeo | bc -l |
| 02:09.11 | Writchie | you mean apple? |
| 02:09.15 | BryceLeo | crap... this isn't my terminal |
| 02:09.18 | rtm_ | I expect they will make new applications available. |
| 02:09.33 | sagacis | BryceLeo: I do that all the time |
| 02:09.33 | SpeedEvil | Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc. |
| 02:09.33 | SpeedEvil | This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. |
| 02:09.34 | SpeedEvil | For details type `warranty'. |
| 02:09.38 | Writchie | apple is working on the follow on models |
| 02:09.50 | BryceLeo | sagacis: one day you all are gonna get my root password |
| 02:09.51 | sagacis | OK, I lost my panel when I tried to dial, then all visible apps went away |
| 02:10.03 | sagacis | ssh still shows everything running.... What's the recovery? |
| 02:10.28 | sagacis | ctrl-alt-backspace isn't really an option |
| 02:10.41 | SpeedEvil | killall X |
| 02:10.47 | SpeedEvil | I presume it will respawn |
| 02:10.56 | SpeedEvil | or shutdown -h -t 0 now |
| 02:10.56 | sagacis | "no process killed" |
| 02:11.07 | rtm_ | BTW - is there any way to form control characters with the onscreen keyboard? |
| 02:11.09 | sagacis | I guess so. |
| 02:11.17 | sagacis | Using the matchbox keyboard, you can |
| 02:11.46 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 02:12.23 | sagacis | Rebooting is ugly. That makes it windows. |
| 02:12.59 | cesarb | sagacis: rebooting is a time-honored tradition on the embedded world |
| 02:13.13 | cesarb | sagacis: when an airliner's computers goes haywire, they reboot it |
| 02:13.29 | cesarb | sagacis: when a spaceship's computer starts misbehaving, they reboot it |
| 02:13.34 | SpeedEvil | Is there any way to change the edit summary tag after you commit it on the wiki? |
| 02:13.44 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p548828E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:13.59 | cesarb | sagacis: they even have watchdog timers whose sole purpose is to automatically reboot things! |
| 02:14.00 | rwhitby | cesarb: need a better name than 'copy-package-%' cause in future we might add support for copying the package to the real device |
| 02:14.05 | hozer | my treo650 would reboot when I got too many messages in teh inbox |
| 02:14.17 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: no unless you have database access |
| 02:14.24 | SpeedEvil | Oh well. |
| 02:14.30 | cesarb | rwhitby: hm... |
| 02:14.32 | hozer | when your openmoko phone acts up, connect a JTAG debugger ! ;) |
| 02:14.39 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 02:15.02 | cesarb | rwhitby: how about qemu-copy-package-sd-%? |
| 02:15.04 | hozer | when your iphone randomly reboots, hope it wasn't a hacker |
| 02:15.21 | rwhitby | cesarb: how about qemu-install-package-% |
| 02:15.32 | cesarb | rwhitby: no, because it doesn't actually install |
| 02:15.40 | cesarb | rwhitby: you still have to do the ipkg by hand |
| 02:15.46 | rwhitby | ok, qemu-copy-package-% will do then |
| 02:15.48 | cesarb | hozer: "hi, I'm a Neo..." |
| 02:15.59 | BryceLeo | +1 to qemu-copy-package-% |
| 02:17.08 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r106 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added support for a virtual SD card, and the ability to copy built packages to it. Thanks to cesarb. |
| 02:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 02:17.42 | rwhitby | cesarb: can you (or someone else) add some doco to the MokoMakefile wiki page for that? |
| 02:17.51 | cesarb | rwhitby: will do |
| 02:17.59 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: can you add that to the tutorial too? |
| 02:19.51 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: will do |
| 02:20.03 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: power-in measurements won't be very accurate with switch mode character in the loop |
| 02:20.12 | rwhitby | thanks guys - nice addition! |
| 02:20.14 | Writchie | i think i'll just instrument a battery |
| 02:20.24 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: i'm not sure if it's necessary, i have the packages get built right into the image... hmm... |
| 02:22.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GTA01_gsm_modem]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Central_Texas]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[Trademark_Policy]] [[User:Bryce.Leo]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Wish_List]] [[Five-second-press]] and other changes |
| 02:23.48 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: i'll put that in when i go through tomorrow or the day after and put in the GDK app example as well |
| 02:23.51 | *** part/#openmoko arcanericky (n=ricky@ppp-70-244-165-47.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 02:24.31 | sagacis | Hmmm... "EVENT: Netreg registration denied" |
| 02:25.05 | cesarb | Well, added it to the wiki, I hope I remembered the path within /media correctly |
| 02:25.30 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: character? |
| 02:25.32 | cesarb | (/media/mmcblk0 IIRC... It's late right now, I will go to sleep, and the emulator takes too long to warm up) |
| 02:25.55 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: instrumented battery works too. There is IIRC a /proc somewhere for bat volts. |
| 02:26.13 | Writchie | i just mean temp hardware wise |
| 02:26.25 | Writchie | i'll measure in non-charging state |
| 02:26.43 | BryceLeo | cesarb: what time is it by you/ |
| 02:26.50 | cesarb | BryceLeo: 23:26 |
| 02:27.05 | cesarb | (in fact, I should already have gone to sleep... but this channel is too fun) |
| 02:27.06 | Writchie | su |
| 02:27.15 | Writchie | sorry wrong screen |
| 02:27.33 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 02:27.36 | BryceLeo | cesarb: lol i'm in eastern standard so i'm at 22:27 and i've gotta be up at 6:00 |
| 02:27.36 | cesarb | Writchie: today everybody seems to be confusing the terminals... |
| 02:27.57 | Writchie | i'm vnc into antoher box then into neo |
| 02:28.21 | BryceLeo | cesarb: this is one heck of a fun channel, i bought webhosting at dreamhost so that i could get a shell and use ircII to connect in |
| 02:28.27 | BryceLeo | because IRC is blocked at my job |
| 02:28.50 | cesarb | I will also have get up some minutes after 6:00 (to get the bus by 7:00)... And it's COLD today, and I heard tomorrow will be worse, so it's even harder to wake up :P |
| 02:30.12 | BryceLeo | haha, i can never wake up in the winter! my boss is great though and just lets me come in up to a half hour late as long as i tack on that time to when i leave |
| 02:30.20 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 02:33.35 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177561319.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:35.14 | cesarb | night all |
| 02:36.07 | BryceLeo | night cesarb |
| 02:43.34 | *** join/#openmoko ZerothCloned (n=tyler@S010600195bd5cfe1.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 02:44.02 | ZerothCloned | hey all |
| 02:45.50 | ZerothCloned | so, whats up? |
| 02:46.17 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: sup |
| 02:46.34 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: just working on geting the whole gtk app thing for the cras course |
| 02:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko spliffy (n=frost@p54B1E315.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:49.13 | ZerothCloned | happycube: may I ask what an angstrom image is without looking stupid? |
| 02:49.43 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: lol don't feel bad i just learned what it is today |
| 02:50.17 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:54.29 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 02:55.06 | BryceLeo | angstrom is a distribution |
| 02:55.31 | BryceLeo | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ |
| 02:58.31 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-76-204-97-155.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:58.45 | ZerothCloned | ah, cool |
| 02:58.52 | ZerothCloned | angstrom image for what device then? |
| 03:00.11 | BryceLeo | the gta01 |
| 03:00.14 | BryceLeo | and the 02 |
| 03:00.22 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (n=8472@dslb-084-056-242-103.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:00.26 | BryceLeo | it should run on anything that Openmoko runs on |
| 03:00.50 | BryceLeo | koen's apparently a lead guy with it, so you know the software is gonna be pretty killer |
| 03:01.15 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 03:02.28 | BryceLeo | Ya know what OE desperately needs... a quickstart guide... because that 135pg pdf user manual is damn daunting |
| 03:09.19 | ZerothCloned | yeah, that would be nice :/ |
| 03:17.45 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 03:21.19 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 03:25.34 | happycube | yeah - i need to get over to my neo to try the image :) |
| 03:26.50 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 03:28.54 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 03:30.33 | BryceLeo | i wish that there were more people who bought a neo and didnt realize it was a dev preview |
| 03:32.21 | rtm_ | BryceLeo: Where is the 135pg pdf user manual? |
| 03:36.07 | BryceLeo | rtm_: heh natrually hidden away on the angstrom page |
| 03:36.08 | BryceLeo | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ |
| 03:37.11 | BryceLeo | http://www.openembedded.org/%7Ekoen/usermanual.pdf |
| 03:37.14 | BryceLeo | direct link |
| 03:40.45 | BryceLeo | i've got work in the morning |
| 03:40.46 | BryceLeo | night all |
| 03:40.51 | BryceLeo | it's been fun as usual |
| 03:41.21 | *** part/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 03:46.21 | ZerothCloned | well, fun and quiet :/ |
| 03:46.33 | happycube | amusing - the cheap bluetooth dongle actually supports DFU |
| 03:58.45 | *** join/#openmoko aesci99 (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 03:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko cyphi (n=cyphi@a91-153-116-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 04:07.33 | happycube | got it loaded up |
| 04:07.35 | happycube | nite bryce |
| 04:21.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Krid]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Francisco]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[GTA01_gsm_modem]] [[Main_Page/es]] [[MokoMakefile]] |
| 04:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-76-203-160-39.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:23.34 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 04:24.13 | daMaestro | ok, so i tried about 10 att sim cards |
| 04:24.15 | daMaestro | and none worked |
| 04:24.30 | daMaestro | first tmobile sim i tried worked right away |
| 04:26.01 | happycube | oy |
| 04:26.34 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 04:27.36 | happycube | ditto |
| 04:27.42 | happycube | (the t-mo sim) |
| 04:28.56 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 04:29.55 | daMaestro | mwester, i already said earlier i know people |
| 04:29.56 | daMaestro | lol |
| 04:30.00 | daMaestro | also! |
| 04:30.05 | daMaestro | this is bad news for a lot of people |
| 04:30.13 | daMaestro | you can not reactivate 2g sims on the att network |
| 04:30.24 | daMaestro | so don't buy att 2g sims on ebay... you will not get them activate |
| 04:31.12 | daMaestro | activated* |
| 04:31.44 | *** join/#openmoko notuniq (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 04:31.50 | doc|home | is that going to be the same in oct? likely to cause trouble for people? And why are at & t always different |
| 04:32.01 | doc|home | wiretapping-- |
| 04:32.49 | mwester | This is bad news in a lot of ways. For months and months, the word was "a sim is a sim" -- seems that it's not quite so "sim"ple. (sorry, bad pun) |
| 04:33.59 | daMaestro | i got unofficial confirmation that it is SIM Sentry |
| 04:34.16 | daMaestro | aka the guy told me very softly that att sims need to be "unlocked" |
| 04:35.07 | rtm_ | I finally got an AT&T 3G SIM to work today, but it only works about once every 5 neo reboots. |
| 04:35.08 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 04:36.37 | daMaestro | rtm_, what did you have to do? |
| 04:36.47 | daMaestro | rtm_, i really tried a lot of them... even so called "unlocked" ones |
| 04:37.14 | daMaestro | i went to 5 stores today; one which i knew people at |
| 04:37.58 | rtm_ | I did not do anything special - I just rebooted several times in a row, and finally connected up with the system, although with weak and intermittant bars - But I could place calls. |
| 04:38.12 | mwester | From google: "The SIM Sentry application is a basic, easy to deploy, copy protection application dedicated to ensuring operator profitability..." |
| 04:38.22 | mwester | The last 5 words say it all... |
| 04:43.47 | blindcoder | moin |
| 04:48.12 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 04:51.24 | happycube | ouch |
| 04:52.02 | SpeedEvil | SIM Sentry provides enhanced execution time security to handset based applications by allowing a secure key repository and the capability for handset application developers to code portions of the application in the SIM. This creates an improved anti-hack protection scenario for gaming software companies, for example, where each game could make different calls to SIM based applets for successful execution, thereby frustrating the hacker, protec |
| 04:52.25 | SpeedEvil | o the user |
| 04:52.42 | happycube | and somehow they've wrapped more around it than everyone else aparently |
| 04:53.14 | SpeedEvil | Or buggy implementation. |
| 04:53.17 | SpeedEvil | Anyway. |
| 04:53.19 | happycube | yeah |
| 04:53.25 | SpeedEvil | Looks like it's TIs issue. |
| 04:53.38 | happycube | *nod* too bad we can't DFU the phone firmware :( |
| 04:54.05 | doc|home | "dedicated to ensuring operator profitability..." |
| 04:54.08 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 04:54.10 | doc|home | can we get that topic'd? :) |
| 05:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=macmac@host81-151-124-151.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 05:03.12 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. /me notices 'fully static design' in the SC*'s datasheet. |
| 05:03.17 | SpeedEvil | I wonder how much lower than 12Mhz it can go with an external clock source. |
| 05:03.55 | SpeedEvil | Probably not meaningful anyway. |
| 05:30.48 | *** join/#openmoko vyphi (n=aasss@28.100.141.lpoy.fi) |
| 05:31.13 | xkr47 | any word on the second batch ? |
| 05:33.17 | xkr47 | (gug) |
| 05:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=jts@ally.crepinc.com) |
| 05:39.32 | xkr47 | !counter |
| 05:39.35 | xkr47 | counter |
| 05:39.35 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in a day 15:10:12 (1.632±1.6 days) (1786;251) |
| 05:42.50 | summatusmentis | so I assume people have received theirs... |
| 05:47.09 | xkr47 | some have |
| 05:48.10 | summatusmentis | I suppose I should ask what people think when there are more people around, and it's not almost 2 AM in US CDT |
| 05:49.00 | xkr47 | check the mailing lsit |
| 05:49.41 | xkr47 | actually, check both the community and the device-owner lists |
| 05:52.13 | summatusmentis | xkr47: mm, good point, thanks |
| 05:56.22 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: quite a lot of people actually. |
| 05:56.34 | SpeedEvil | Probably 100 or so at least. |
| 06:06.07 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-39.upc.chello.be) |
| 06:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@81-208-74-190.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 06:11.47 | linux_galore | yeah, nice phone very buggy heh |
| 06:13.18 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:16.22 | blindcoder | so long as it's not bugged ;) |
| 06:17.42 | *** join/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 06:18.50 | xkr47 | hehe, there's a perl module for tracking UPS packages :) Business::UPS |
| 06:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko emre_ (n=emre@85.104.30.190) |
| 06:20.24 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@ACC8012C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 06:20.32 | xkr47 | that's evil |
| 06:22.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GTA01_gsm_modem]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] |
| 06:22.39 | emre_ | Hi folks, I'm trying to set up "connection to the internet via usb". |
| 06:22.41 | *** join/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 06:22.56 | emre_ | pinging to an ip works but to a domain name does not. does anybody have any idea? |
| 06:23.24 | freskog_work | no nameserver configured? |
| 06:24.06 | emre_ | just done the steps given in the wiki. |
| 06:24.36 | freskog_work | what does /etc/resolv.conf say? |
| 06:24.37 | emre_ | set up a local network 172.16.0.0 |
| 06:24.46 | emre_ | on the host or neo? |
| 06:24.59 | freskog_work | both |
| 06:25.04 | freskog_work | no, neo |
| 06:25.07 | freskog_work | sorry :) |
| 06:25.18 | emre_ | there is no /etc/resolv.conf in neo. |
| 06:25.28 | freskog_work | copy the one from the host to the neo. |
| 06:25.32 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-76-203-160-39.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:25.44 | emre_ | ok, |
| 06:25.49 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 06:25.58 | freskog_work | should work now, if it worked with ip. |
| 06:26.11 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2576 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: Add higher baudrates: 230k, 460k, 921k (Alex Osborne) |
| 06:26.16 | emre_ | great, it works.. |
| 06:26.18 | emre_ | thanks. |
| 06:26.22 | freskog_work | no problem. |
| 06:26.23 | emre_ | but there is a problem.. |
| 06:26.31 | freskog_work | what is that? |
| 06:26.51 | emre_ | this works only when I'm home. i.e. when i go to work, it changes.. |
| 06:27.22 | freskog_work | well... the same procedure should work at work... |
| 06:27.31 | emre_ | :) |
| 06:27.33 | Kero | dhcp can give a DNS server |
| 06:27.39 | emre_ | yes |
| 06:28.06 | freskog_work | That's problably a better solution. |
| 06:28.25 | emre_ | so, should i set up a dhcp server on the host? |
| 06:28.31 | emre_ | for neo to connect? |
| 06:28.35 | freskog_work | there are lightweight dns-servers readily avaiable also. |
| 06:28.40 | linux_galore | add one of these beauties to your OM -> http://www.ukprwire.com/Detailed/Technology/First-ever_1.4mm_single-chip_camera_is_the_worlds_smallest_8596.shtml |
| 06:28.53 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=macmac@host81-151-124-151.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:29.07 | freskog_work | emre: You need to setup dhcp and maybe a dns-relay (easier than it sounds) |
| 06:29.56 | freskog_work | In ubuntu should have the dhcpd and dns-relay (i think) packages in the repos. |
| 06:30.10 | emre_ | ok. i'll give it a try after the gsm ;) thanks.. |
| 06:30.15 | freskog_work | But I have to go now (meeting), I'll be back in a couple of hours. |
| 06:30.52 | *** join/#openmoko firedragen (n=chatzill@ym166172.ym.edu.tw) |
| 06:30.58 | linux_galore | here is a pic of it so you get an idea of the size http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/07/OV6920_camerachip.jpg |
| 06:31.54 | happycube | damn that's small |
| 06:33.19 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A08084.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:33.28 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 06:40.50 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 06:42.34 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 06:47.38 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484FBC5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:51.02 | *** join/#openmoko phrozen77 (n=phrozen7@unaffiliated/phrozen77) |
| 06:51.03 | Sirclown82 | freskog, try opendns.com |
| 06:56.16 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 06:56.25 | nibbler_de | why not just use a public dns like 194.150.168.168 or 195.85.254.254? |
| 06:57.52 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2577 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/usock.c: Use ATH instead of ATH0 for QC compatibility (Philipp Zabel) |
| 07:01.16 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07E6CE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:03.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2578 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ (atcmd.c gsmd.c): |
| 07:03.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: the latest gsmd sends the alive detector's ATE0 to the GSM modem, even |
| 07:03.44 | CIA-24 | openmoko: if interpreter_ready == 0. The attached patch sees to it that if |
| 07:03.44 | CIA-24 | openmoko: interpreter_ready is zero, gsmd_alive_start is only called once the |
| 07:03.44 | CIA-24 | openmoko: "AT-Command Interpreter ready" message was seen. (Philipp Zabel) |
| 07:07.40 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2579 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/gsmd.c: don't power off the phone at gsmd startup. |
| 07:13.32 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ACE39.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:19.26 | emre_ | Does anyone know why can't I mount -o loop the root fs? |
| 07:22.12 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (n=me@dD5763257.access.telenet.be) |
| 07:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2BC7D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:24.27 | Placid | mornin' |
| 07:24.36 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:25.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2580 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ (gsmd.c vendor_qc.c): |
| 07:25.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: in some cases the Qualcomm chip in the HTC Universal switches to V0 mode |
| 07:25.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: behind our backs. We need support for "0" instead of "OK" in the |
| 07:25.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: synchronous initial command and in the alive check. Note that this |
| 07:25.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: nearly duplicates the "OK" check in atcmd.c. (Philip Zabel) |
| 07:25.17 | mave_pan | morning also |
| 07:25.42 | xkr47 | lol @ qualcomm |
| 07:26.09 | xkr47 | nice bug to get closed |
| 07:26.17 | *** part/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 07:28.23 | *** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 07:28.30 | *** join/#openmoko dsilva (n=username@216-15-122-239.c3-0.sbo-ubr3.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 07:28.43 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=rueegseg@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:31.08 | dsilva | is anyone having trouble charging their phones with the USB cable? |
| 07:31.22 | dsilva | i think my battery died and it won't charge, so now my phone's bricked? |
| 07:34.25 | hrw | no |
| 07:34.29 | hrw | unplug phone |
| 07:34.33 | hrw | take out battery |
| 07:34.40 | hrw | put battery in, connect usb cable |
| 07:34.42 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2581 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (include/gsmd/gsmd.h src/gsmd/atcmd.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 07:34.42 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Add '2nd try' of the multiline parser: |
| 07:34.42 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Every extended response causes a flush of the previous mlbuf and starts |
| 07:34.42 | CIA-24 | openmoko: collecting new response lines. Also, final_cb is now really only reached for |
| 07:34.42 | CIA-24 | openmoko: final responses and the code for case 'A' won't overwrite the command buffer |
| 07:34.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: with the response anymore. I throw in '\n' as a separator for multi-line |
| 07:34.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: responses, and the callback is called for each response this way. |
| 07:35.09 | hrw | cable connect to usb powered port (powered hub or directly to computer) |
| 07:35.26 | dsilva | ok |
| 07:36.25 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-177-19.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 07:36.47 | dsilva | still nothing? |
| 07:37.15 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423_ (n=chatzill@A7560.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 07:37.16 | hrw | dsilva: neo does not have any led to show that it charge |
| 07:37.27 | hrw | dsilva: leave it for few hours |
| 07:37.34 | dsilva | hrw: ah ok |
| 07:37.43 | dsilva | hrw: thanks, I'll try that :) |
| 07:38.18 | dsilva | hrw: does linux give any indication that something's happening/charging? |
| 07:38.45 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 07:40.04 | hrw | dsilva: after few hours you should be able to power phone |
| 07:40.25 | xkr47 | I don't think there is any indication currently |
| 07:40.33 | dsilva | ah ok, thanks |
| 07:40.53 | dsilva | by the way, which openmoko-devel-image and uImage versions should we be using? |
| 07:41.31 | dsilva | I tried openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070728081358 and uImage-2.6.21.6-moko10-r1_0_0_2388_0 earlier today, and the system was pretty much unusable |
| 07:42.19 | hrw | latest one |
| 07:42.38 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 07:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@81-187-78-211.multithread.co.uk) |
| 07:43.14 | hrw | dsilva: current images are a bit broken as Mickeyl has to finish few merges |
| 07:43.54 | dsilva | hrw: oh ok, so the ones in the "latest" directory are stable? |
| 07:44.01 | mave_pan | dsilva: the upper right hand corner of the neo has a battery monitor icon. Arrow pointed inwards means it's charging. |
| 07:44.22 | mave_pan | dsilva: have you hooked up your neo to a linux box? |
| 07:44.24 | dsilva | mave_pan: thanks, though I'm charging it when it's off :) |
| 07:44.32 | dsilva | mave_pan: yep |
| 07:45.04 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 07:45.13 | hrw | dsilva: there is no such thing as 'stable' builds yet |
| 07:45.13 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:46.09 | mave_pan | dsilva: read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#While_in_Linux |
| 07:48.13 | dsilva | mave_pan: strange, I don't see that in my /var/log/messages |
| 07:48.21 | dsilva | mave_pan: maybe because the phone's off? |
| 07:48.38 | mave_pan | That could be |
| 07:48.56 | mave_pan | Try switching it on. |
| 07:49.12 | dsilva | when it was on earlier, I did get something similar: usb 3-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 |
| 07:49.30 | dsilva | can't switch it on, battery drained... I guess I'll wait a while like hrw suggested |
| 07:49.53 | mave_pan | Good luck then. Have to go now .. |
| 07:49.57 | dsilva | thanks |
| 07:50.00 | mave_pan | np |
| 07:50.51 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9609.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:52.23 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-217-219-46.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 07:53.03 | *** join/#openmoko squalyl (n=squalyl@139.100.140.131) |
| 07:53.08 | squalyl | hi every1 |
| 07:53.22 | jas4711 | hi! UPS told me i'll receive my neo1973 today. However, they wanted around €100 for customs. Anyone with similar experience? I'm in Sweden, fwiw. |
| 07:53.22 | aloril | jas4711: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:54.04 | guaqua | jas4711: you should check on what grounds they are taxing you |
| 07:54.39 | Fatal | jas4711: value*1.25 atleast |
| 07:55.06 | guaqua | that's a whole lot for handling then |
| 07:55.18 | guaqua | in finland you'd have to pay the 22% VAT |
| 07:55.31 | Fatal | he didn't say how many he ordered though |
| 07:55.31 | jas4711 | i suspect it is custom's (5-10%?) and vat (25%) |
| 07:55.42 | jas4711 | i ordered one neo advanced. |
| 07:55.50 | madwoota | 25% vat ? woah |
| 07:56.03 | guaqua | i'd get ~60 euros for the tax in finland |
| 07:56.23 | guaqua | how much did the advanced cost? |
| 07:56.28 | jas4711 | USD 450 |
| 07:56.31 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 07:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko dando (n=dando_@L2c67.l.pppool.de) |
| 07:56.44 | guaqua | well.. |
| 07:56.53 | ScaredyCat | jas4711: 87.90 EUR for me |
| 07:57.21 | Fatal | you should pay ~85 EUR |
| 07:58.32 | jas4711 | i paid usd540 including shipping to openmoko.com. UPS phone and I don't recall the exact sum they wanted (in cash..) but it was something like 1100-1200 SEK, which is about 115-130 EUR |
| 07:59.26 | jas4711 | is there a wiki page about shipping experience? maybe we can start one, to make it easy to compare taxes/customs fees. and to make sure they are consistent... |
| 07:59.33 | hrw | there is one |
| 07:59.44 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Shipping_Notes |
| 07:59.56 | Fatal | jas4711: just out of curiosity, what rt number did you have? we orderd the first day (albeit very late) and they haven't made a peep for the last two weeks |
| 08:00.01 | Fatal | kind of disheartening |
| 08:00.31 | jas4711 | my rt is #1992 |
| 08:00.36 | Fatal | ok |
| 08:00.37 | jas4711 | i ordered before it hit slashdot... |
| 08:00.51 | jas4711 | ScaredyCat: thanks. I'll add my experiences to that page. |
| 08:01.04 | Fatal | I have no idea when it hit slashdot, think it did half way me trying to get my collegues to decide :/ |
| 08:01.07 | Fatal | :) |
| 08:01.20 | jas4711 | they e-mailed me on July 22 about charging my VISA though. |
| 08:01.22 | Fatal | s/way/way through/ |
| 08:01.36 | jas4711 | then on July 27th about shipping it |
| 08:01.55 | jas4711 | i ordered on July 9 |
| 08:02.41 | Fatal | same here, but late in the evening |
| 08:03.25 | Fatal | iirc :) |
| 08:03.48 | Fatal | but we were definetly after the /. onslaught |
| 08:06.14 | Kero | mine's in philadelphia, for nearly 24h now... |
| 08:08.31 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 08:08.39 | xzcvczx | kero: well i believe mine went all the way to ontario when it will just have to go back to LAX to get on international flight to here |
| 08:09.37 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:09.55 | Kero | mine has a location "EIndhoven, NL" for 'brokerage' halfway the UPS tracking. That was on top at some point, making me believe it was within 10km of its destiny. |
| 08:10.07 | xzcvczx | either that or it will go to san fran |
| 08:10.11 | Kero | but it never left Oakland at that point :( |
| 08:11.31 | xzcvczx | kero: yeah ups's shipping sucks.... my phone was sitting in one place for like 2 or 3 days i believe in the depot in sunnyvale |
| 08:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko Ortheus (n=ortheus_@ltl56-1-82-246-59-176.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:11.56 | xzcvczx | at least fedex's tracking is accurate and tells you exactly where and when it is |
| 08:12.12 | xzcvczx | well it did last time i used it anyway |
| 08:12.16 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic (n=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:13.08 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:14.27 | *** join/#openmoko Dmitry_Platonov (n=shadowja@212.15.100.143) |
| 08:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A57642.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:18.09 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.112.109) |
| 08:22.21 | Kero | xzcvczx: ups is showing the info they have. They could present it in a way that is clearer to us. |
| 08:22.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[MacOS_X]] |
| 08:22.29 | Kero | some ppl some to have an ETA, I don't |
| 08:23.49 | Kero | s/ some/ seem/ |
| 08:24.12 | Kero | apt: botsnack |
| 08:24.12 | apt | thanks, Kero |
| 08:25.28 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77 (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 08:26.16 | CM|Vacation | Mine is also stuck in Philadelphia |
| 08:29.00 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-94-81.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 08:30.41 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@adsl-dyn99.91-127-95.t-com.sk) |
| 08:31.50 | *** join/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@pD95F88B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 08:36.06 | Kero | we should make #future_P1_owners |
| 08:42.02 | Placid | haha |
| 08:42.12 | Placid | apt rules |
| 08:42.13 | apt | ACTION makes the rules. now stfu and code mode addons. |
| 08:42.16 | *** join/#openmoko Roy (n=Roy@213.208.220.32) |
| 08:42.24 | Placid | testing regex |
| 08:42.31 | Placid | s/testing/this is cool/ |
| 08:42.35 | Placid | :D |
| 08:42.55 | Rince | s/cool/pretty awesome/ |
| 08:43.48 | Roy | s/funny/not funny.. |
| 08:43.53 | CM|Vacation | !googlefight cdbot2 vs apt |
| 08:43.54 | cdbot2 | By results on Google: apt beats cdbot2 by 53,400,000 to 1,280! |
| 08:43.55 | Rince | testing regex |
| 08:44.05 | Rince | s/testing/pretty awesome/ |
| 08:44.08 | Rince | ah, better |
| 08:44.20 | Placid | s/Roy// |
| 08:44.50 | Placid | null |
| 08:44.51 | Placid | :D |
| 08:44.52 | empty | Grumble.. |
| 08:47.31 | dando | hmmm. the keywords $Rev$ $Date$ $Author$ arent filled by svn. |
| 08:49.30 | dando | or lets say they are ignored by svn |
| 08:49.41 | *** join/#openmoko b1303s (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-ee7070f50c368d34) |
| 08:50.53 | b1303s | hi |
| 08:51.11 | mdt | dando, you have to switch that behavior on |
| 08:51.39 | dando | is it the client that does the job? |
| 08:52.01 | dando | mdt: good to know |
| 08:53.53 | *** part/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@pD95F88B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:54.26 | Roy | Are there things like artwork that need to be done this project? (my programming in C probably isn't good enough) |
| 08:54.48 | mdt | dando, you need to set property svn:keywords="..." |
| 08:55.20 | mdt | dando, or have that automatically set in ~/.subversion/config |
| 08:55.44 | dando | mdt: thx |
| 08:55.45 | mmp | Roy: everything is needed:) If you have some ideas about alternative icon themes, or UI designs, feel free to update wiki:) |
| 08:56.04 | *** join/#openmoko dcorking (n=dcorking@82.152.212.136) |
| 08:56.32 | dando | roy: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Artwork |
| 08:56.57 | Roy | Ah nice, didn't find that page yet |
| 08:58.54 | Dmitry_Platonov | It can be spotted through "orphaned pages" and "recent changes" only. Can anyone link it from appropriate place (resources?) |
| 08:58.54 | dando | mdt: @ cvs the serverside is doing this !? Isn't it ? |
| 08:59.23 | Roy | Dmitry > I'll try to find some entrypoints |
| 09:00.15 | dando | roy i guess this isn't linked to the main wiki ! |
| 09:01.19 | FuzzyCat | holy crap, eurotunnel prices just trippled |
| 09:01.46 | mdt | dando, i'm not shure. i would say the client, but why do you want to know? |
| 09:02.22 | Kero | FuzzyCat: you mean you passed the x weeks in advance when you get super discounts? |
| 09:02.42 | FuzzyCat | ppftt that doesn't exist... |
| 09:02.58 | dando | mdt: just because i use cvs a lot and i am not used to svn. |
| 09:03.25 | Roy | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel |
| 09:03.31 | FuzzyCat | I looked at their flixi stuff and it's a ripoff too... you buy 10 trips in advance, then you might have to pay and extra 20-30 quid when you get there... wtf is the point of that |
| 09:03.35 | Roy | That was more what I was looking for :) |
| 09:03.40 | FuzzyCat | flexi |
| 09:04.54 | mdt | dando, there is a nice doc for people coming from cvs... did you read that? |
| 09:05.19 | dando | no not yet |
| 09:05.37 | dando | mdt: do u have a link? :) |
| 09:05.58 | mdt | dando, http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/doc/user/cvs-crossover-guide.html |
| 09:06.06 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 09:06.39 | dando | mdt: thank you! |
| 09:08.18 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 09:11.01 | *** join/#openmoko aesci99 (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 09:14.33 | ynezz | wow nice artwork :) |
| 09:15.20 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@156.Red-88-6-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:16.03 | ninHer | hi all |
| 09:18.05 | *** join/#openmoko frank0 (n=frank@62.8.133.124) |
| 09:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@achn-4db4aa0d.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 09:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 09:21.49 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag- (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 09:27.50 | *** join/#openmoko b1303s (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-20a78e936365f8ec) |
| 09:28.39 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 09:29.00 | Roy | Good afternoon :) |
| 09:29.31 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno2 (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 09:31.14 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 09:34.41 | Psi_ | finally my tracking has changed, its been saying 'EXCEPTION.. ''PKG DELAY ADDL SECURITY CHECK BY GOVT OR OTHER AGENCY BEYOND UPS CONTROL' for 3 days |
| 09:34.52 | Psi_ | now its got "In Transit" :) |
| 09:35.03 | LarstiQ | Psi_: woha, where do you live? ;) |
| 09:35.07 | Psi_ | NZ |
| 09:35.21 | LarstiQ | hmm, nothing radical there I'd say |
| 09:35.34 | Psi_ | it probably just got a random check |
| 09:35.35 | Roy | A lot of people get these customs messages when ordering |
| 09:36.33 | Psi_ | ill be interested to see when i get it if it has been opened or not |
| 09:36.54 | FuzzyCat | if you're lucky they'll have flased it for you ;) |
| 09:36.59 | Psi_ | hehe |
| 09:37.01 | ewon | it'll be interesting to see if it's still in one piece... |
| 09:37.08 | Psi_ | ^^ |
| 09:37.28 | Psi_ | it may just have been xrayed |
| 09:38.00 | Roy | Or gone through a MRI scanner (bye bye memory..) ;-) |
| 09:38.04 | Psi_ | heh |
| 09:38.24 | Roy | Nah they don't do that.. |
| 09:38.45 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485E5C1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:40.00 | FuzzyCat | woohoo! |
| 09:40.10 | FuzzyCat | the chicken is in the pot! |
| 09:40.20 | Roy | ...? |
| 09:41.13 | Kero | but to me screams "something wrong" .... |
| 09:42.11 | Roy | Then you are probably a programmer, when they see "EXCEPTION" it probably means you messed up :P |
| 09:42.32 | Kero | yup :) |
| 09:44.45 | Dmitry_Platonov | UNCAUGHT EXCEPTION: DELIVERY TERMINATED ;-) |
| 09:46.29 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 09:46.31 | xzcvczx | Dmitry_Platonov: PACKAGE TERMINATED would be worse |
| 09:46.49 | Roy | UNEXPECTED EXCEPTION: DELIVERY FORWARDED TO ROY |
| 09:47.18 | alphaone | you're laughing. I had something like that happen to me once. |
| 09:47.43 | xzcvczx | alphaone: do go on |
| 09:47.58 | squalyl | WTF |
| 09:48.01 | squalyl | NOTE: package openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svn20070719-r1: task do_configure: started |
| 09:48.01 | squalyl | ERROR: function do_configure failed |
| 09:48.08 | squalyl | still broken! |
| 09:48.19 | squalyl | (with last svn) |
| 09:48.31 | alphaone | I was tracking a dhl packet and it was already listed as being on the delivery run to my appartment, but it did not arrive that day. |
| 09:48.47 | squalyl | isn't there a DISTRO_EXCLUDE or sth like that? |
| 09:49.18 | alphaone | The next morning the dhl tracking form said "Delivery had to be aborted due to some unexpected event." |
| 09:49.34 | zecke | squalyl: moin, don't build the latest version of rssreader? |
| 09:49.40 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: why did this regress? |
| 09:49.43 | alphaone | So I'm still wondering what that "unexpected event" might have been... |
| 09:49.56 | xzcvczx | alphaone: probably had an accident if your courier drivers are anything like ours |
| 09:50.01 | Roy | Thats my dayjob :-D |
| 09:50.06 | guaqua | they dropped it and broke it and are trying to find a replacement phone :D |
| 09:50.32 | alphaone | xzcvczx: Yeah, I figured either that or a flat tire. |
| 09:50.56 | xzcvczx | Roy: just go more by fedex's than ups tracking technique |
| 09:51.16 | Roy | Maybe somebody was sitting/walking in front of your house and told the courier that he/she was you :o |
| 09:51.19 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:51.20 | xzcvczx | alphaone: or the idiot got lost |
| 09:52.17 | Roy | xzcvczx: The whole system is already designed, we only get to build it :-( but I'm leaving the project next week, I'm starting to hate it |
| 09:52.19 | squalyl | zecke: I'm building rssreader "20070719". Which one is the good one? The latest? |
| 09:52.23 | alphaone | zecke:openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svn20070719 |
| 09:52.34 | alphaone | Doesn't seem like the last.. |
| 09:52.53 | alphaone | squalyl: What is the error message? |
| 09:52.54 | squalyl | does the last revision build? |
| 09:53.12 | squalyl | configure: error: Package requirements (WebKitGdk) were not met: |
| 09:53.16 | zecke | alphaone: it failed on the autobuilder tonight, so something changed in the configuration |
| 09:53.27 | xzcvczx | Roy: well the tracking system has to be redone here.... all it says is picked up and delivered or delivery failed |
| 09:53.29 | alphaone | hmm |
| 09:53.33 | zecke | !ombug 671 |
| 09:53.34 | squalyl | no update is necessary on openembedded? |
| 09:53.34 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 671, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 09:53.34 | Vegar | when will the buildhost build 2007.2? |
| 09:53.36 | cdbot2 | * * <autobuild-report>: openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svn20070722-r1-do_configure |
| 09:53.37 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=671 |
| 09:54.24 | alphaone | Vegar: Not before OM 2007.2 is working. |
| 09:54.28 | Vegar | ok |
| 09:54.42 | squalyl | is there a way to avoid building this package? |
| 09:54.50 | zecke | http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tinderbox/showbuilds.pl?tree=OpenMoko so someone broke it yesterday at 18h central european time |
| 09:54.55 | Roy | xzcvczx: We are going to have about 45 possible states for the packages, should be enough |
| 09:55.15 | dando | !ombug 634 |
| 09:55.15 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 634, Status: RESOLVED (INVALID), Created: Unknown |
| 09:55.16 | cdbot2 | * * inksmithy(AT)gmail.com: Cannot target United Kingdom with Country Drop Down |
| 09:55.17 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=634 |
| 09:55.24 | xzcvczx | jas4711: they call you :O |
| 09:56.27 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:56.42 | jas4711 | xzcvczx: actually, they called yesterday but i wasn't home then. re-scheduled until today. ("before 12am", it is now 11.56am..) |
| 09:56.52 | Dmitry_Platonov | I have broken transparent proxy, and http://svn.openmoko.org/ does not works for me (I believe, it's the reason). Any suggestions? |
| 09:57.18 | Roy | brb, have to connect to DHL's VPN |
| 09:58.08 | daxxar | mjr: Ah, you're Mikko Rauhala? |
| 09:58.34 | daxxar | mjr: Thanks for your feedback on the BT-keyboard, :-) |
| 10:00.01 | *** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 10:02.58 | FuzzyCat | &can i has an openmoko? |
| 10:02.59 | mokobot | You can has an openmoko - it are delivrd |
| 10:03.03 | FuzzyCat | :D |
| 10:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko rd___ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 10:09.20 | roh | Dmitry_Platonov replace every occurence of http with https |
| 10:09.38 | roh | Dmitry_Platonov that should help getting through your broken proxy |
| 10:10.05 | zecke | roh: hey, do you know if viewcvs is installed on svn.om.org? |
| 10:10.10 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelil (n=atg@pool-162-83-80-168.culp.east.verizon.net) |
| 10:11.33 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 10:11.41 | squalyl | so isn't there an immediade-dirty-hack workaround to get devel image build? |
| 10:12.00 | zecke | squalyl: set a SRCDATE for openmoko-rssreader before it required webkit? |
| 10:12.42 | squalyl | 20070719 requires it? ok. |
| 10:13.22 | squalyl | trying 20070701 |
| 10:13.34 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg__ (n=thomasg@p57AFC630.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:17.57 | Dmitry_Platonov | roh, thanks. Seems to work. |
| 10:19.24 | *** join/#openmoko Zennor (n=Zennor@p57B99CDE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:22.21 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:22.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Main_Page]] [[FAQ]] [[Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management]] [[Ringtones]] [[Neo1973_Aux_Button]] |
| 10:27.24 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 10:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko EnricoPalazzo (n=jo@d072232.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 10:27.52 | roh | zecke the SRCDATE is already set fitting. updating svn, clearing the package should work |
| 10:29.15 | zecke | roh: it regressed yesterday afternoon |
| 10:29.19 | Psi_ | is the UPS tracking supposed to show an ETA somewhere? |
| 10:29.28 | zecke | ~seen cwiis |
| 10:29.30 | apt | i haven't seen 'cwiis', zecke |
| 10:29.30 | roh | zecke *sigh* .. why that? |
| 10:29.30 | zecke | ~seen cwiiis |
| 10:29.31 | apt | cwiiis <n=cwiiis@host81-156-174-196.range81-156.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 28d 20h 40m 26s ago, saying: 'zecke_: You're writing an HTML rendering engine?'. |
| 10:29.57 | zecke | roh: no idea, this is why i asked for viewcvs (I'm too lazy to fire up svn log) |
| 10:31.58 | zecke | hmm svn log looks fine... (random bitbake breakage?) :} |
| 10:32.14 | roh | zecke subscribe to commitlog@ ;) i always use that to keep track |
| 10:33.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03chris * r2582 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c): |
| 10:33.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Don't list Openmoko-Today in the tasks list, and work with any |
| 10:33.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: NETWM-compliant window manager |
| 10:37.06 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FC89D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:37.48 | *** join/#openmoko karthik (i=karthik@123.214.76.185) |
| 10:38.40 | Dmitry_Platonov | roh, https://svn.nslu2-linux.org not working. neither are svn:// and http:// :-/ |
| 10:40.42 | *** join/#openmoko Zennor2 (n=Zennor@p57B98FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:41.32 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ACE39.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:41.38 | *** join/#openmoko dcorking (n=dcorking@82.152.212.136) |
| 10:42.02 | karthik | test msg |
| 10:42.29 | roh | Dmitry_Platonov i dunno if he provides ssl |
| 10:43.07 | hhf423 | hmm, still no payment/shipment note means no Neo before the camp... |
| 10:43.40 | karthik | hhf423 when did u book.. |
| 10:44.16 | hhf423 | my first order did not get through, my second got RT 28xxsometing |
| 10:46.19 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 10:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@89.202.147.66) |
| 10:49.02 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=zhaoshic@222.66.81.98) |
| 10:50.32 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-46-227.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 10:53.37 | Zennor | I'm trying to compile openmoko to play around with it and qemu, but the makefile hangs up at configuring openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svn20070722-r1 |
| 10:53.42 | *** join/#openmoko Roy (n=Roy@213.208.220.32) |
| 10:55.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2583 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/dialer-main.c src/moko-digit-button.c): |
| 10:55.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-07-31 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 10:55.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/dialer-main.c: (main): |
| 10:55.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-digit-button.c: (moko_digit_button_new_with_labels): |
| 10:55.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Do not force gsmd restart (for debugging purposes). |
| 10:55.29 | sixfeet | hoi |
| 10:55.41 | *** part/#openmoko EnricoPalazzo (n=jo@d072232.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 10:56.16 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:57.18 | Roy | Hoi |
| 10:57.22 | Zennor | "No package 'WebKitGdk' found" <--- Is that a requirement for my system or should it be build on its own by the Makefile? |
| 10:59.47 | *** join/#openmoko KheldarAtWork (n=chatzill@LNeuilly-152-21-51-6.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:03.37 | KheldarAtWork | any idea how to run 3D on openmoko when the final version (with the GPU) is released? |
| 11:04.43 | Dmitry_Platonov | Kheldar, possibly via opengl |
| 11:06.21 | Dmitry_Platonov | when there will be drivers. |
| 11:06.24 | XorA | opengles most likely |
| 11:07.15 | Kheldar | ok, thx :) |
| 11:09.05 | mjr | it's not like there _is_ anything else to consider here than opengles |
| 11:09.19 | mjr | what did you think, direct3d? :] |
| 11:10.08 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.103.217) |
| 11:10.08 | Kheldar | why not :p |
| 11:11.08 | Kheldar | in fact I am looking further (I use ogre, which has a port to windows mobile) and wonder what will be the level of complexity for porting that to openmoko |
| 11:11.10 | mjr | and note that GTA02 being out will not necessarily mean that there will yet be drivers taking full advantage of the GPU |
| 11:11.30 | Kheldar | yep |
| 11:11.55 | mjr | in fact bet against it |
| 11:13.40 | Kheldar | (anyway, I *WILL* get the machine, so whether or not there are drivers at that moment is not relevant for buying but I hope somebody does write these drivers... I know for a fact it's not your average coder that develops good drivers for GPUs :s ) |
| 11:14.42 | mjr | that somebody will probably have to be the overworked openmoko guys, unless they got a really good deal with smedia for gpu datasheets and stuff and be able to offload some of the work |
| 11:15.22 | mjr | or, of course, hire new blood, FIC willing (to pay :) |
| 11:16.19 | Kheldar | mmmh |
| 11:16.40 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=zhaoshic@222.66.81.98) |
| 11:16.50 | Kheldar | I'd be willing to move to Taiwan if paid for working on Openmoko, but not good enough :/) |
| 11:17.11 | Kheldar | so I'll just wait :p |
| 11:18.42 | mjr | <- no relevant experience and emphatically not hard-working and concentrated enough |
| 11:19.03 | Kheldar | ^^^' |
| 11:19.34 | SpeedEvil | Anyone getting hardware - if you've got DMM or a scope - or are taking it apart - please fil in the numbers in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Unresolved_Hardware_Questions |
| 11:20.09 | SpeedEvil | On another topic. |
| 11:20.15 | Kheldar | ogre pda port uses openGL-ES |
| 11:20.54 | SpeedEvil | Kheldar: At the moment. |
| 11:20.56 | Kheldar | so if I understand it right, it's "just" a matter of getting OGLES drivers for the GPU |
| 11:20.57 | cjb_ie | if any of you lot are in ireland (preferably near cork), i can lend you a 4 channel scope |
| 11:21.24 | SpeedEvil | It looks like the GPU specs will only be available by NDA. |
| 11:21.37 | SpeedEvil | All drivers will have to be written by FIC. |
| 11:22.04 | SpeedEvil | Due to time constraints, the GPU may not support all its possible features. |
| 11:22.39 | squalyl | OK so we have an open phone except the GSM, except the GSP, except the GPU. Any others? |
| 11:22.48 | squalyl | s/GSP/GPS/ |
| 11:22.49 | SpeedEvil | This could in principle be worse in GTA03 - as some of the upcoming chips have an embedded DSP, which we - the users may not have drivers for. |
| 11:23.08 | SpeedEvil | I'm working on the GPS, all I need is a neo. |
| 11:23.34 | squalyl | lol ok. GPS will get open drivers. |
| 11:23.37 | SpeedEvil | s/drivers/specs/ |
| 11:23.41 | SpeedEvil | It _may_. |
| 11:23.51 | SpeedEvil | It's still possible we may hit roadblocks. |
| 11:24.02 | SpeedEvil | As a broad guess. |
| 11:24.50 | SpeedEvil | We're a couple of stages from getting 1Km precision after 16 minutes of integration on a stationary point. |
| 11:24.51 | Dmitry_Platonov | I'd say chances on open GPS driver are high. Only issue I see may be legal one. |
| 11:25.06 | SpeedEvil | Using GPS as just a Transit-alike. |
| 11:25.26 | SpeedEvil | Then a couple more stages to get a rough GPS position - say +-50m |
| 11:25.53 | SpeedEvil | Then it's a case of polishing it to get to similar performance than the existing software. |
| 11:26.08 | squalyl | OK. good luck with this. What level are you working at? Computing fix from satellite data packets? |
| 11:26.09 | SpeedEvil | And then there is further work to get it better. |
| 11:26.24 | SpeedEvil | That's the second and last stages only. |
| 11:26.34 | Dmitry_Platonov | SpeedEvil, and then go further. |
| 11:26.35 | SpeedEvil | First we have to work out how to recieve the packets |
| 11:26.38 | Kheldar | I don't understand something... drivers for GSM are open, even though GSM is a black box, right? |
| 11:26.43 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 11:26.46 | Kero | cjb_ie: from Eindhoven, Cork is quite close by Ryan Air :) But I have no time. |
| 11:26.54 | SpeedEvil | it's a modem, talkable to with AT commands. |
| 11:27.12 | SpeedEvil | The actual modem is closed-source. |
| 11:27.30 | Dmitry_Platonov | Same with wifi, wich a |
| 11:27.32 | SpeedEvil | So we can't for example debug the latest ATT/Sim Sentry possible issue. |
| 11:27.52 | cjb_ie | Kero: pff, in eindhoven you can probably get mugged by oscilloscopes if you walk too close to philips ;-) |
| 11:28.05 | Dmitry_Platonov | Same with wifi, wich has closed firmware. But that's ok, since communication protocol is open |
| 11:28.10 | SpeedEvil | I think the bluetooth module actually has open-source. |
| 11:28.14 | SpeedEvil | Well\ |
| 11:28.18 | SpeedEvil | available source |
| 11:28.38 | SpeedEvil | However, it's in ROM. |
| 11:28.47 | Kheldar | And what is the difference with GPU? |
| 11:29.03 | SpeedEvil | No fundamental difference from the GPS. |
| 11:29.07 | SpeedEvil | The problem is. |
| 11:29.27 | SpeedEvil | If we have no driver to observe doing a function, it's _really_ hard to implement that function. |
| 11:30.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2584 10/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA01Bv4/pmu-voltage.txt: D3REG is STBY_1V8 (Joachim Steiger) |
| 11:30.10 | SpeedEvil | Especially if the only thing we have is a 2-page poorly written spec-sheet. |
| 11:30.12 | ewon | do we know if the GPU is based an any given desktop chip? |
| 11:30.16 | SpeedEvil | it's not. |
| 11:30.19 | ewon | shit. |
| 11:31.30 | SpeedEvil | Are you charging your laser? |
| 11:32.32 | CoreDump|afk | me sooo would like to get one of the bomb-casings (ie: the lunchbox) |
| 11:32.45 | Kero | cjb_ie: don't tell anyone, I'm inside Philips :) |
| 11:33.01 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-192-185.netcologne.de) |
| 11:34.12 | Kero | if there is anything specific to measure with an oscilloscope, I can do that, likely. |
| 11:35.47 | SpeedEvil | Kero: See the topic - |
| 11:36.03 | SpeedEvil | the page there has ideas on what needs measured. |
| 11:36.34 | SpeedEvil | Also see the Neo1973 GTA01 Power Mangment page |
| 11:36.54 | cjb_ie | it'd be interesting to put a scope on one of those AT&T sims that won't talk |
| 11:37.22 | CoreDump|afk | FWIW, I have access to a scope as well |
| 11:38.34 | Kero | multimeter I have at home. Don't need a scope for the things on that page! |
| 11:39.08 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 11:39.09 | Kero | but it'd prolly be better to let a hardware colleague cut the wire :P |
| 11:39.33 | SpeedEvil | A true RMS meter is needed for some of the things perhaps. |
| 11:39.40 | SpeedEvil | As the waveforms may be very spiky |
| 11:39.57 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.184) |
| 11:40.01 | CoreDump|afk | ^ |
| 11:40.09 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 11:40.37 | Kero | and I don't know what RMS means :) though I understand what you imply with "spiky" |
| 11:40.38 | CoreDump|afk | You want the current draw measured under various loads |
| 11:40.56 | CoreDump|afk | I don't see why it would need to be RMS? |
| 11:40.58 | nbd | moin LaF0rge |
| 11:41.01 | SpeedEvil | Root Mean Square. |
| 11:41.04 | SpeedEvil | Basically. |
| 11:41.10 | SpeedEvil | Err |
| 11:41.22 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't actually need to be RMS on reflection. |
| 11:41.24 | CoreDump|afk | it's DC |
| 11:41.31 | CoreDump|afk | ;) |
| 11:41.38 | SpeedEvil | It's DC with a large AC component in some cases. |
| 11:41.41 | Fatal | a RMS meter sounds scary |
| 11:42.07 | nbd | LaF0rge: i've been talking to prpplague about the sdi controller issues. he found out that it doesn't even generate interrupts for sdio |
| 11:42.24 | cjb_ie | Fatal: don't worry, it's not richard m stallman |
| 11:42.27 | nbd | LaF0rge: not that this is causing my issues, but this might be something that requires a hardware change |
| 11:42.30 | Fatal | cjb_ie: :) |
| 11:42.37 | nbd | LaF0rge: otherwise performance is going to be crappy |
| 11:42.51 | SpeedEvil | And the AC component may not be well measured by cheap meters. |
| 11:44.05 | CoreDump|afk | which AC component? The page I'm reading wan't the charging current measured (why is beyond me btw, it would be more interesting to measure the current draw from the battery w/ _not_ charging) |
| 11:44.37 | SpeedEvil | The page mentioned in the topic is measured with battery charged. |
| 11:44.49 | SpeedEvil | Not charging - to take it out of the circuit effectively. |
| 11:45.01 | Psi_ | is it a constant charger, not pulsed? |
| 11:45.09 | Psi_ | cos if pulsed a normal DMM wont read it correctly |
| 11:45.45 | SpeedEvil | CoreDump|afk: Some loads may be pulsed. For example - 100mA for 1ms, 1ma for 50ms |
| 11:46.01 | SpeedEvil | this will not be measured accurately with many DMMs |
| 11:46.07 | CoreDump|afk | ugh indeed |
| 11:46.43 | SpeedEvil | The GSM modem, for example is IIRC 2W spikes with a 1/8th or so duty cycle. |
| 11:46.47 | CoreDump|afk | When I get the chance I shall have a look today ;) |
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| 11:47.44 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: which is where the characteristic angry-wasp GSM RFI comes from. |
| 11:47.49 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 11:52.19 | CoreDump|afk | if the fluke is quick enough, I probably can produce some nice "screenshots" for your viewing pleasure |
| 11:52.34 | CoreDump|afk | anyway, time to go |
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| 11:55.43 | SpeedEvil | Fine. |
| 11:57.31 | SpeedEvil | That would be fine. |
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| 12:08.01 | zecke | woglinde: hi |
| 12:09.34 | woglinde | hi zecke |
| 12:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:14.14 | mokobot | Hello Lord |
| 12:14.22 | woglinde | ??? |
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| 12:18.23 | Kheldar | I'm thinking about that, I'll look into it and eventually if interesting make an entry on the wiki, but of course we'd still need those drivers :) http://www.manifestgames.com/Mobile/Ogre_PocketPC_WhitePaper.pdf |
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| 12:22.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] [[User:Bitplane/ideas]] [[Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management]] [[Talk:Ringtones]] |
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| 12:30.38 | inz | wide? |
| 12:30.50 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423__ (n=chatzill@tmo-004-149.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 12:32.59 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423___ (n=chatzill@A72ac.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 12:33.18 | thomasg__ | my neo finally arrived :) |
| 12:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 12:33.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2585 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 12:33.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-07-31 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 12:33.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_keypad_dial_clicked): |
| 12:33.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Some fixes to dialing function. |
| 12:34.01 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac6146b.bb.sky.com) |
| 12:34.07 | woglinde | thomasg gratz |
| 12:34.48 | thomasg__ | even without functionallity (yet): I love it :) |
| 12:35.10 | woglinde | even if you have to charge it all 6 hours? |
| 12:35.30 | thomasg__ | we'll see :) |
| 12:35.56 | thomasg__ | but it's more for playing around, developing some apps (and test it under real conditions) and so on |
| 12:35.57 | FuzzyCat | can u charge itin a nokia? |
| 12:36.08 | woglinde | fuzzycat? |
| 12:36.11 | thomasg__ | the battery? |
| 12:36.14 | FuzzyCat | the battery |
| 12:36.18 | woglinde | hm |
| 12:36.21 | thomasg__ | don't know |
| 12:36.24 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 12:36.25 | thomasg__ | could work |
| 12:36.33 | woglinde | some nokia battery works at neo |
| 12:36.38 | woglinde | dont know the opposite |
| 12:36.45 | spliffy | no, the nokia charges refuses to charge other batteries afaik |
| 12:36.57 | FuzzyCat | :( |
| 12:37.01 | spliffy | s/charges/charger/ |
| 12:37.23 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora-study (i=matteo@147.162.137.9) |
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| 12:42.58 | thomasg__ | is this known (for perl-native)? SysV.xs:7:25: Error: asm/page.h: File not found. |
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| 12:52.21 | woglinde | thomasg yes its know |
| 12:52.26 | woglinde | look at the wiki |
| 12:53.20 | SpeedEvil | spliffy: Cheap 'no-name' chargers work |
| 12:57.14 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
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| 13:05.26 | Zennor | where i get an webkitgdk.pc? the makefile stopped cause it didn't found it for configuring openmoko-rssreader |
| 13:06.07 | Kheldar | I'm wondering: does GPS allow for height positionning? |
| 13:06.09 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2586 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (ChangeLog src/moko-dialer.c): |
| 13:06.09 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-07-31 Neil J. Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 13:06.09 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: (on_call_progress_changed): |
| 13:06.09 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Add a bunch of debug statements to find out what gsmd is doing. |
| 13:08.17 | SpeedEvil | !seen roh |
| 13:08.19 | cdbot2 | SpeedEvil, roh is right here! |
| 13:08.40 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 13:08.58 | mjr | Kheldar, yes |
| 13:10.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 672 has been created by nick(AT)anywi.com |
| 13:10.02 | cdbot2 | * * for valid config descriptors |
| 13:10.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=672 |
| 13:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A08FF9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:11.52 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:12.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 673 has been created by nick(AT)anywi.com |
| 13:12.02 | cdbot2 | * * e the DFU status value correctly during download |
| 13:12.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=673 |
| 13:13.33 | squalyl | Zennor: Build process is broken because of openmoko-rssreader dependency on webkit but nothing seems to provide this dep! |
| 13:13.42 | squalyl | Zennor: I'm also blocked on this bug. |
| 13:14.19 | Zennor | squalyl: ok can you give me the bugzilla-link? maybe I can add useful information |
| 13:14.52 | jas4711 | What pre-built root filesystem images have people tried with GTA01B_v04? it seems uboot and kernel is already installed. SHA1/MD5 values? |
| 13:20.43 | squalyl | Zennor: I think it's here: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=671 |
| 13:21.31 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 13:23.04 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: You around? |
| 13:23.29 | Zennor | squalyl: thanks for the info :) |
| 13:24.29 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@85.127.78.33) |
| 13:24.56 | ewon | anyone know if the GPU in GTA02 is used in any windows mobile devices? |
| 13:26.03 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=Administ@62.8.133.124) |
| 13:26.49 | happycube | probably |
| 13:27.40 | ewon | would be useful to see what bits the driver bangs etc |
| 13:27.45 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:30.38 | thomasg__ | woglinde, do you have a wiki link for the perl-native problem? can't find it using the search-function |
| 13:31.08 | woglinde | hm there was a page with all mokofile build failures |
| 13:31.14 | woglinde | let me see if I can find them |
| 13:31.19 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A0A6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:31.34 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile |
| 13:32.14 | woglinde | hm |
| 13:37.34 | happycube | anyone else ever think they have their neo turned off and then find it in deep-low power mode? |
| 13:38.13 | squalyl | Zennor: To fix the problem with RSS reader I'm currently trying to set SRCDATE_openmoko-rssreader="20070701" in openmoko/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc, |
| 13:38.36 | woglinde | squalyl yes that was the fix |
| 13:38.54 | squalyl | lol it does not change anything here |
| 13:39.02 | woglinde | or you fix the webkit part *g* |
| 13:39.07 | squalyl | I'm now trying to delete all generated/downloaded file |
| 13:39.10 | woglinde | rm the tar.gz |
| 13:39.25 | Zennor | squalyl: ok I'll try it now :) |
| 13:39.30 | squalyl | I have absolutely no idea of how webkit works ! |
| 13:39.51 | woglinde | squalyl hm right its now webkit its the integration *g* |
| 13:39.55 | woglinde | now=not |
| 13:40.24 | squalyl | I guess that backdating SRCDATE does not run the needed SVN update, so the source remains more recent than requested |
| 13:40.41 | squalyl | resulting in no effect :) |
| 13:41.05 | happycube | i don't think webkit's in the openmoko tree... it *is* in angstrom |
| 13:41.42 | squalyl | lol another guy this one... What is angstrom? |
| 13:42.03 | squalyl | openmoko needs openembedded, which in turns uses angstrom... is it all? ^_^ |
| 13:42.09 | squalyl | NOTE: package gcc-cross-4.1.1-r11: task do_compile: started |
| 13:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@n128-227-127-2.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 13:43.24 | happycube | angstrom is another distribution that uses the openembedded toolset |
| 13:43.39 | happycube | the openmoko tree is based off an older version so new stuff isn't getting in |
| 13:43.46 | squalyl | aha |
| 13:43.48 | happycube | for instance an angstrom neo build is EABI |
| 13:44.51 | squalyl | OK I guess these problems will be (at least partially) resolved with the near-coming openmoko -> oe merge? |
| 13:45.48 | happycube | yeah |
| 13:46.03 | happycube | i hope the gps daemon is released in both OABI and EABI ;) |
| 13:46.50 | SpeedEvil | And GPL. |
| 13:47.01 | happycube | we're not getting *that* far yet :/ |
| 13:47.19 | *** join/#openmoko nop__ (n=nop@p54A089A7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 13:48.52 | mjr | happycube, well, if one of the issues they've been resolving is that they can compile the gllin themselves, at least it'd be up to the moko guys, not gl |
| 13:49.13 | happycube | yeah |
| 13:49.38 | *** join/#openmoko nm (n=nm@222.252.70.216) |
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| 13:53.15 | SpeedEvil | Umm - no. |
| 13:53.36 | SpeedEvil | Compiling it yourself does not mean that you can release source, even if you have it. |
| 13:54.20 | happycube | SE - yeah |
| 13:54.34 | happycube | but if they only sent an oabi binary it won't be terribly useful after the next OE transition |
| 13:54.43 | happycube | it won't run ;) |
| 13:55.41 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 13:55.55 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-68-105.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 13:56.16 | inz | Why does everyone misspell ångström ;) |
| 13:56.23 | ferric | lol. |
| 13:56.24 | happycube | ;) |
| 13:56.26 | woglinde | inz we have no utf8 yet |
| 13:56.29 | happycube | lack of euro keyboard |
| 13:56.50 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A456.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 13:57.36 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 13:59.25 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish_work (n=ivan@proxy.salfordsoftware.co.uk) |
| 13:59.30 | thomasg__ | rwhitby, on the discussion-page I can't find nothing about asm/page.h or perl-native |
| 14:00.40 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
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| 14:01.22 | hrw | happycube: I lack euro on keyboard but can write Ångström |
| 14:01.50 | happycube | what's the trick? |
| 14:02.09 | squalyl | Here's one € for your copy paste games |
| 14:02.25 | daxxar | Yay, I can do € too! |
| 14:02.33 | daxxar | € Ⓡ⁂Ⓤ⁂Ⓛ⁂Ⓔ⁂Ⓩ |
| 14:02.34 | happycube | ngström |
| 14:02.39 | happycube | that didn't work too well. |
| 14:02.42 | squalyl | fail |
| 14:02.42 | daxxar | (for you UTF-8-brethren) |
| 14:02.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2587 10/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA02v2/ (. gpio.txt): Add GTA02v2 GPIO list, reflecting GTA02_MB_A2_0730_ALLEN3 |
| 14:03.01 | happycube | i wonder what's different from gta02v1 |
| 14:04.25 | Elrond | laforge is commiting a lot today... :) |
| 14:06.45 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo|WOrk (i=bryce@trans-am.dreamhost.com) |
| 14:07.14 | happycube | according to pmu-voltage.txt gta01bv4's cpu is running at 2.1v? |
| 14:07.27 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, hi! Any sphyrna news? |
| 14:08.21 | thomasg__ | oh no, got a dead pixel :( |
| 14:08.36 | *** join/#openmoko mIRCTRUser-498 (n=mIRCTR@88.247.243.147) |
| 14:08.50 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:08.56 | BryceLeo|WOrk | i'm amazed that there haven't been more reports of that. I mean with how tightly they're packed.... |
| 14:09.23 | Tyrael | hi, can I use ipkg install file.ipk ? |
| 14:10.00 | Shoragan | Tyrael, yes |
| 14:10.29 | Tyrael | It tell me: Cannot find package |
| 14:10.33 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 14:10.47 | Shoragan | then it's probably not there ;) |
| 14:11.00 | Shoragan | you need to copy it to the device first |
| 14:11.07 | Tyrael | I do it |
| 14:11.14 | Tyrael | it is in the same dir |
| 14:11.27 | *** join/#openmoko mIRCTRUser-498 (n=mIRCTR@88.247.243.147) |
| 14:11.40 | Shoragan | perhaps some dependencies are not installed? |
| 14:11.40 | Tyrael | what version of arm should I use? |
| 14:11.41 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A08830.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:13.11 | Shoragan | Tyrael, use http://pastebin.com/ with the error and an ls -l in the relevant directory |
| 14:13.52 | Tyrael | I'm tryng to install mpg321 |
| 14:14.06 | Shoragan | use madplay |
| 14:14.16 | *** join/#openmoko dernicklosekopf (n=anonym@p57B1311A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:14.36 | Tyrael | armv5te is ok? |
| 14:15.04 | Shoragan | no |
| 14:15.09 | Tyrael | v4t? |
| 14:15.13 | Shoragan | armv4t |
| 14:15.19 | dernicklosekopf | is there anyone who maybe sell a used neo1973 ? |
| 14:15.19 | aloril | dernicklosekopf: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:15.31 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:15.35 | dernicklosekopf | d |
| 14:15.38 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 14:16.19 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:16.35 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 14:16.37 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:17.04 | dernicklosekopf | :) |
| 14:17.22 | aloril | dernicklosekopf: haven't heard about anybody selling used Neo1973 yet ;-) |
| 14:17.33 | thomasg__ | who want to have mine? :P |
| 14:17.47 | aloril | have heard a lot of people trying to get hand on Neo1973 though |
| 14:17.55 | dernicklosekopf | thomasg_: me i, or what ever... |
| 14:18.03 | thomasg__ | just kidding :) |
| 14:18.08 | mjr | let's talk four figures and I might part with mine ;) |
| 14:18.08 | dernicklosekopf | damn ;) |
| 14:18.21 | Tyrael | Shoragan: Ok thanks |
| 14:18.27 | thomasg__ | ok, I'd sell it for $600, too :) |
| 14:18.43 | dernicklosekopf | lol no thanks :) |
| 14:18.56 | aloril | hehe, somebody could have made killing by ordering 11 of them to USA address and ebaying them ;-) |
| 14:19.45 | dernicklosekopf | mhmpf ebay does not know openmoko or neo1973... |
| 14:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:20.39 | thomasg__ | openmoko still doesn't want to build here. every time this perl-native error: "SysV.xs:7:25: Error: asm/page.h: File not found." - several people told me it is known and that there is a solution on the wiki, but I can't find it and nobody can tell me a link -.- |
| 14:20.54 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2141-ipbf2304marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 14:21.50 | *** join/#openmoko exastra (n=go@c-24-21-152-246.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 14:22.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[OpenMoko_local_Groups:_Copenhagen]] [[Wish_List]] [[User:Bitplane/ideas]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[User:UlrikRasmussen]] |
| 14:22.14 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Well, somewhat. I start to consider the possibility, that the artefacts I'm always talking about, are somewhat a breakage of my HH. |
| 14:22.24 | dernicklosekopf | are somebody interesting to trade a neo1973 for a 19" lc-display ? |
| 14:23.40 | dernicklosekopf | open - that not means that it is reachable for everyone with no money... |
| 14:24.02 | SpeedEvil | I'd be willing to trade mine when it arrives for a nice 91" 3D display. |
| 14:24.04 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0849D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:24.18 | dernicklosekopf | sorry, i cant help you |
| 14:24.27 | *** join/#openmoko exastra (n=go@c-24-21-152-246.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 14:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko moko-bunn1 (n=reik@a054242.dsl.fsr.net) |
| 14:24.52 | *** part/#openmoko moko-bunny (n=reik@a054242.dsl.fsr.net) |
| 14:25.26 | dernicklosekopf | i think i need more to talk in english, because my english is terrible... |
| 14:25.44 | woglinde | moko-bunny lol |
| 14:25.54 | moko-bunn1 | what? :) |
| 14:25.55 | aloril | moko-bunn1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:26.07 | woglinde | just the nick |
| 14:26.16 | dernicklosekopf | nick? |
| 14:26.20 | dernicklosekopf | oh... |
| 14:26.31 | ozarka | dernicklosekopf: It's not bad actually. |
| 14:26.33 | moko-bunn1 | here, I'll explain http://users.pullman.com/webcams |
| 14:26.39 | moko-bunn1 | oops |
| 14:26.55 | squalyl | dernicklosekopf: dont worry, mine is terrible too but everyone is kind enough to understand me ;) |
| 14:26.57 | moko-bunn1 | http://users.pullman.com/estratte/webcams |
| 14:27.08 | moko-bunn1 | there....explains the bunny part :) |
| 14:27.36 | *** part/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-031-033.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:28.03 | *** join/#openmoko borg__ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 14:28.31 | mwester | Ah, someone captured the Monty Python Killer Rabbit. Very good... |
| 14:28.42 | dernicklosekopf | i think my grammar is bad, but i cant say it, i dont know... |
| 14:29.07 | moko-bunny | indeed :D how do I revert the rssreader so the dang thing will build? |
| 14:29.53 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 14:30.23 | *** join/#openmoko nop__ (n=nop@p54A09F0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:30.29 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 14:30.30 | aloril | dernicklosekopf: I checked ebay before making that ebaying comment ;-) |
| 14:31.07 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Your rss-reader drives me crazy. :) |
| 14:31.22 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Any ETA when webkit is able to buil in OE? |
| 14:31.32 | dernicklosekopf | aloril: i havent found anything in ebay germany oder ebay.com... |
| 14:31.44 | dernicklosekopf | oder means or lol |
| 14:31.57 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: webkit does build in OE for some date a week ago |
| 14:32.03 | dernicklosekopf | english with german :) |
| 14:32.09 | stefan_schmidt | Somebody who have the webkit build problem: Please tell me what SRCDATE it has in your scn checkout. |
| 14:32.18 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: Sure? |
| 14:32.28 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: I ran GdkLauncher after guadec |
| 14:32.29 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: It builds once build fails now IIRC |
| 14:32.52 | moko-bunny | I have the webkit problem....where do I find the SRCDATE ? |
| 14:32.56 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: I know it builded once. :) |
| 14:33.29 | aloril | dernicklosekopf: once GTA02 becomes available, I think some will 'upgrade' to it by selling their GTA01B_v04 |
| 14:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8506.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:33.40 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: it builds in OE. |
| 14:33.55 | stefan_schmidt | moko-bunny: trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc |
| 14:34.04 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: today? |
| 14:34.11 | dernicklosekopf | aloril: i hope for it :) |
| 14:34.21 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: starting with yesterday rssreader failed to compile on the autobuilder :} |
| 14:34.38 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I just found that, but why? |
| 14:34.50 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Any faulty commit? |
| 14:34.51 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: no idea :} |
| 14:35.05 | dernicklosekopf | hey what do you think about a 100-dollar-openmoko like a 100-dollar-laptop? |
| 14:35.07 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: svn log of oe doesn't show anything interesting, did the time on the svn server change? |
| 14:35.36 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: hmm, it should not, but I have no login on it. |
| 14:35.53 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Ah, new glat? |
| 14:35.56 | stefan_schmidt | flat |
| 14:35.57 | woglinde | zecke go go |
| 14:36.10 | zecke | yeah, I decided to try these things called "flat" |
| 14:36.11 | moko-bunny | stefan_schmidt: ahh...it says 20070722, should I set it earlier? |
| 14:36.23 | Shoragan | dernicklosekopf, the current price is mostly the raw cost |
| 14:36.54 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: for webkit/gdk one should fixate it to a date |
| 14:36.58 | happycube | good luck! |
| 14:37.42 | stefan_schmidt | moko-bunny: moment |
| 14:37.49 | stefan_schmidt | zecke, XorA: NOTE: package webkit-0.0+svn20070731-r1: task do_compile: failed |
| 14:38.04 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: that is faked :) |
| 14:38.08 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: where did it fail? |
| 14:38.19 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: moment, pastebin right now |
| 14:38.49 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 14:38.56 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: http://pastebin.ca/640584 |
| 14:39.15 | aloril | dernicklosekopf: just wait enough, no doubt eventually there will be used Neo1973 at $100 |
| 14:39.15 | dernicklosekopf | Shorogan: maybe an another company develope a cheaper model... some featers of the neo1987 do i dont need... |
| 14:39.25 | stefan_schmidt | moko-bunny: Let me search the commit zecke introduced webkit deps... |
| 14:39.40 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: maybe koen is pissed as well, he had a fix for that |
| 14:39.58 | dernicklosekopf | aloril: yes i think that is a good idea... |
| 14:40.16 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: -v |
| 14:40.19 | moko-bunny | stefan_schmidt: k, looking at IRC log, looks like squalyl didn't have any luck with earlier versions of rssreader |
| 14:40.22 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: pissed of me our you? |
| 14:40.37 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: QMAKE_MOC = "${STAGING_BINDIR}/moc4" in the webkitgdk.bb after the inherit qmake :) |
| 14:41.02 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Do you push or should I? |
| 14:41.03 | dernicklosekopf | lol 100-dollar-server ;) |
| 14:41.12 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: try it, and push |
| 14:41.26 | stefan_schmidt | moko-bunny: yeah, seen that. I try to go to the ground of the problem after the webkit stuff in OE. |
| 14:41.31 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: ok |
| 14:41.32 | aloril | last GPRS connection was 1d 23h 50min 41s (was close to 2 days ;-) |
| 14:42.11 | squalyl | wow... does openmoko supports qt ? |
| 14:42.15 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@85.127.77.158) |
| 14:42.23 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: you mean webkit_svn.bb, right? |
| 14:42.26 | squalyl | I thought it was gtk based |
| 14:42.42 | aloril | (umm.. not with Neo1973, don't have one yet, charged once, but I think even that is not needed: if no data moves GRPS doesn't seem to use much power) |
| 14:42.50 | dernicklosekopf | i think the 100-dollar-laptop/server is a really good idea for the third world... |
| 14:43.04 | stefan_schmidt | squalyl: That are deps from the angstrom build. Still GTK based. |
| 14:43.10 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: probably :) |
| 14:43.17 | stefan_schmidt | squalyl: Some things use the qmake build system from. |
| 14:44.27 | zecke | squalyl: yes we are collecting money for Trolltech to send them a Neo. |
| 14:45.55 | ferric | haha collecting money. |
| 14:46.17 | squalyl | they could buy neos for us |
| 14:46.41 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: http://pastebin.ca/640595 So we need moc dep? As I have no idea about this: a bitbake moc fails, too. :) |
| 14:47.59 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (i=gabe@nat/ibm/x-b9e2f52e80b02439) |
| 14:48.03 | happycube | trolltech put a new file up |
| 14:48.11 | happycube | so it's failing md5sum |
| 14:48.45 | stefan_schmidt | happycube: You mean moc? It'S failing in do_configure |
| 14:49.25 | dernicklosekopf | cool open source car... |
| 14:49.48 | stefan_schmidt | http://pastebin.ca/640599 |
| 14:51.27 | ferric | hey happycube - did you end up getting a neo? |
| 14:52.46 | dernicklosekopf | have germany a good position in the world? |
| 14:53.03 | dernicklosekopf | means technology, open source ect |
| 14:54.23 | woglinde | dernicklosekopf hm a lot of opensource soft comes from germany |
| 14:54.53 | woglinde | and I doubt we have the most devs per square kilometers |
| 14:55.32 | dernicklosekopf | diese nation ist ja doch zu was gebrauchen ... |
| 14:55.52 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 14:55.52 | woglinde | dernicklosekopf yes sometimes |
| 14:56.18 | stefan_schmidt | moko-bunny, squalyl: I just build and try to reproduce your errors |
| 14:57.17 | moko-bunny | stefan_schmidt: thanks! |
| 14:57.36 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:58.03 | dernicklosekopf | if look into the patriament, you will only see stupid peoples... why does it dont give something like open source politics oder web 2.0 politics... :( |
| 14:58.14 | SpeedEvil | We have web 2.0 politics. |
| 14:58.23 | SpeedEvil | Flashy-content-free sound-bite-driven. |
| 14:58.24 | dernicklosekopf | we think this |
| 14:58.46 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-71-199.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 14:59.02 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: BTW, I think you found http://svnweb.openmoko.org/ already |
| 14:59.04 | SpeedEvil | Lack of actual discussion of hard issues in ways that may take more than a few words. |
| 14:59.30 | dernicklosekopf | lol |
| 14:59.50 | dernicklosekopf | ive used oder for or again |
| 14:59.50 | SpeedEvil | 'Terror bad!' 'Iran Bad!' |
| 15:00.10 | galexande | i thought web 2.0 politics was the blogosphere |
| 15:01.03 | dernicklosekopf | the politcal debate about iran and terror are an big lie... |
| 15:03.13 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, zecke changed to webkit dep at 23.07 so 22.07 should be totally fine for a build without the dep. *grmbl* |
| 15:03.43 | dernicklosekopf | in germany dies every year 15.000 people in reason of bad doctors, i dont know how i tell this... but there is no hype about it... |
| 15:04.20 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 15:04.33 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 15:04.40 | dernicklosekopf | how many people die in germany from terror? |
| 15:05.06 | dernicklosekopf | not so much as soon as traffic accidents or failures of doctors... |
| 15:05.40 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:05.54 | dernicklosekopf | but the news in the tv say terror is an danger in germany |
| 15:06.01 | Tyrael | muuuuuuuuahahahahhahahahahahhah my fic play music :D |
| 15:06.17 | dernicklosekopf | woglide: yes i think your right... |
| 15:06.20 | LetoTo | dernicklosekopf: yeah but solving those costs money instead of pumping more money to oil companies and construction companies and the military |
| 15:06.25 | Stephmw | Tyrael: cat a.wav > /dev/dsp? |
| 15:06.31 | Tyrael | madplay |
| 15:07.07 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 15:07.18 | Tyrael | for a .wav try aplay |
| 15:07.30 | dando | hype about what? |
| 15:08.00 | dernicklosekopf | i have more chances to die in my household as soon as at a terrorattack... |
| 15:08.13 | dando | ok |
| 15:08.20 | dando | terror |
| 15:08.30 | ewon | right |
| 15:08.31 | ewon | listen |
| 15:08.50 | ewon | my own LUG channel is poisoned by this, and I don't want #openmoko to go the same way |
| 15:08.58 | dernicklosekopf | do the final version of the neo1973 support mp3-encoding? |
| 15:09.08 | ewon | NO MORE POLITICS, TAKE IT TO #politics-and-bitching |
| 15:09.15 | ewon | k pls thx bye |
| 15:09.31 | blindcoder | ewon: plzkthxbye is the correct wording :P |
| 15:09.38 | ewon | so it is, apologies |
| 15:09.49 | blindcoder | *bitch* |
| 15:09.52 | blindcoder | :) |
| 15:09.53 | Kheldar | Letoto: the military don't get the money... arms companies do |
| 15:09.54 | ewon | :) |
| 15:10.18 | Kheldar | the military get killed in wars for arms companies benefits... and programmers, btw |
| 15:10.40 | dando | Bush doesn't care about peace in the golf states. He just wants to sell his weapons. And the war pushes the oilprices so his oilcompany makes record gains |
| 15:10.43 | Kheldar | given how many people code missiles and others... |
| 15:11.04 | ewon | so, HOW ABOUT THIS LINUX PHONE THING |
| 15:11.16 | ewon | I know it's a bit off-topic, sorry |
| 15:11.19 | ewon | ... |
| 15:11.32 | dernicklosekopf | oil suxx... i dont want to tell more about oil, we will never get back to the channeltopic :) |
| 15:11.50 | Kheldar | welll... anybody got his neo? :p |
| 15:12.10 | ewon | \o/ |
| 15:12.12 | dernicklosekopf | do the final version of the neo1973 support mp3-encoding? |
| 15:12.24 | dando | neo rulz |
| 15:12.24 | LetoTo | ewon: but that's all old news. won't compile on x86_64, won't compile with fedora, emulator runs poorly :P |
| 15:12.37 | Stephmw | dernicklosekopf: that's a software question, the answer is variously, no, maybe and yes. |
| 15:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@brusc.guerrier.com) |
| 15:12.58 | daxxar | ewon: Haha. ;-P |
| 15:13.00 | ewon | dernicklosekopf: it will, but slowly. You could probably do mp3 encoding on a Z80 if you were not in a hurry :) |
| 15:13.51 | dernicklosekopf | ah, it will be support software encoding? |
| 15:14.17 | ewon | don't think there is any provision in hardware |
| 15:14.20 | ewon | iirc |
| 15:15.09 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:15.26 | dernicklosekopf | for 400 dollars will i have a mp3 encoder, that feater has any cheap mp3-player from china... |
| 15:15.28 | raster | the quesiton is |
| 15:15.32 | dando | I hope there will be soon a similar project like Openmoko to develop a new GPU. So we dont have to use those blob drivers from Nvidia and Ati |
| 15:15.41 | raster | how fast does the cpu ned to run at to decode an mp3 realtime so it playse without skips |
| 15:15.54 | raster | and then u need to dropt he cpu clock to that rate to save power |
| 15:15.55 | raster | :) |
| 15:16.38 | dernicklosekopf | it is possible to change some hardware-units form the phone? |
| 15:16.46 | raster | no |
| 15:16.52 | raster | the phone is all integrated |
| 15:17.01 | raster | everything is soldered onto the main board |
| 15:17.03 | raster | you get what you get |
| 15:17.04 | raster | :( |
| 15:17.18 | daxxar | There's nouveau, dando. :-) |
| 15:17.24 | daxxar | (open source nvidia driver) |
| 15:17.39 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8506.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:18.05 | dernicklosekopf | a mobile-phone need to work how a pc, if the old soundcard sucks, i replace it with a new :) |
| 15:18.19 | ewon | hah, good luck with that |
| 15:18.20 | dando | daxxar: but you cant use the opengl part with this driver! only 2D |
| 15:18.35 | raster | dernicklosekopf: not posswible. you'd have a phone the size of a toaster |
| 15:18.41 | dando | daxxar: i think i dont know |
| 15:18.43 | daxxar | It has limited opengl thus far. |
| 15:18.52 | raster | the reasons phones can be so small, power efficient and cheap is because ti is all integrated |
| 15:18.53 | dando | ok |
| 15:19.05 | ewon | any idea what interface there will be to the GPU in GTA02? |
| 15:19.08 | raster | its manufacturing reality these days |
| 15:19.12 | ewon | e.g. openGL or something more basic? |
| 15:19.14 | dando | but a new GPU with open specification is much better |
| 15:19.15 | raster | ewon: yes - there will |
| 15:19.23 | raster | the 02 will have a gpu that is 100% open too |
| 15:19.23 | dernicklosekopf | raster: if i can toast my bread with my mobilephone... why not? ;) |
| 15:19.33 | raster | the 01 has no GPU (worth talking about) |
| 15:19.34 | daxxar | dernicklosekopf: There has been discussions about modularized phones on this channel. If you want to get arguments for why it's not doable, ask SpeedEvil ;-) |
| 15:19.38 | ewon | raster: you what? it's closed as a bastard... |
| 15:19.39 | daxxar | s/has/have/ |
| 15:20.02 | raster | ewon: it won't be |
| 15:20.04 | ewon | raster: AFAIK they have like an NDA'd 2-page spec sheet on the thing and little more... |
| 15:20.08 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil? |
| 15:20.24 | raster | the point of the moko *IS* to be 100% open |
| 15:20.32 | *** join/#openmoko Crofton|laptop (n=balister@jhr-476-5192.mprg.ee.vt.edu) |
| 15:20.39 | raster | the drivers WILL be open |
| 15:20.47 | dando | 99 % |
| 15:20.47 | ewon | raster: emphasis on future tense :) |
| 15:21.11 | LaF0rge | hi raster |
| 15:21.22 | *** join/#openmoko vallor (n=Rock@frenzy.wba.ponzo.net) |
| 15:21.26 | Crofton|laptop | http://pastebin.ca/640641 |
| 15:21.44 | don-o | a 'modularized' phone based on the gumstix has got me intrigued. i just need a head-mounted monocle bluetooth display. |
| 15:21.47 | Crofton|laptop | A friend of mine is wondering if you can use openmoko t o make a voice encrypted phone |
| 15:21.58 | LaF0rge | ewon: we cannot provide source code to drivers that we haven't written yet :) |
| 15:21.58 | Crofton|laptop | see pastebin for question |
| 15:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 15:22.05 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
| 15:22.06 | ewon | LaF0rge: exactly :) |
| 15:22.09 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: GTA02 status updates please |
| 15:22.21 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil: why it isnt possible to build modularized mobile-phones? |
| 15:22.30 | raster | ewon: the 02 is also a "futrue tense" thing too currently :) |
| 15:22.38 | LaF0rge | ewon: and why would you care about source code for drivers for hardware that doesn't exist yet, or rather, whose first prototypes have not reached more than five people so far :) |
| 15:22.54 | dernicklosekopf | it isnt? |
| 15:23.11 | don-o | mokoninja!! |
| 15:23.45 | ewon | LaF0rge: I'm more concerned about the ability of FIC / the community to get an operational driver going with Very Little Documentation(tm) |
| 15:24.16 | ewon | is there more info the hw coming once the hw production ramped up, or are you looking at poking a black box? |
| 15:24.29 | ewon | where hw == gpu |
| 15:24.35 | guaqua | aloril: would it be possible to get straight urls to the archives with the e-mail announcements? |
| 15:25.03 | dernicklosekopf | laptops can be modularized too, why not a handy? |
| 15:25.06 | ewon | LaF0rge: also, above in "closed as as bastard" I was referring to the gpu and it's specs, not the source code of the non-existant driver :) |
| 15:25.06 | LaF0rge | ewon: we don't have any lack of documentation. |
| 15:25.10 | aloril | guaqua: maybe |
| 15:25.20 | ewon | LaF0rge: oh, I was led to believe you were, apologies. |
| 15:25.23 | dando | handy = mobile phone |
| 15:25.29 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 15:25.33 | *** part/#openmoko Crofton|laptop (n=balister@jhr-476-5192.mprg.ee.vt.edu) |
| 15:25.48 | dernicklosekopf | oh lol |
| 15:25.52 | LaF0rge | ewon: I really believe it's none of your business to talk about things that are not released yet. feel free to bitch about GTA01. |
| 15:25.54 | dando | ;) |
| 15:26.05 | no_mind | LaF0rge, |
| 15:26.10 | dernicklosekopf | like oder :) |
| 15:26.22 | no_mind | LaF0rge, good to see youactive on irc after long time |
| 15:26.26 | guaqua | we really live to talk about things that are not released yet :) |
| 15:26.34 | raster | just have faith |
| 15:26.38 | dando | immer diese neudeutsche Aussprache |
| 15:26.45 | raster | i am sure moko will have an open gpu to play with |
| 15:26.48 | ewon | LaF0rge: hey now come on :) all I'm worried about it getting the best software possible for GTA02 - I was int he openGL business for a while, and was looking for something to poke at, that's all |
| 15:26.52 | guaqua | ewon: wiki should know somethign about the new gpu too |
| 15:26.53 | raster | i know i want one! |
| 15:26.54 | raster | :) |
| 15:27.02 | galexande | ewon, we've been told it'll be a * SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator, so why don't you just get the information for that? i think the gpu is fairly open |
| 15:27.10 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFC630.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:27.11 | guaqua | raster: my thoughts exactly :) |
| 15:27.15 | drath | heh, wonders if it's appropriate to note that if people wouldn't have talked about unreleased stuff, openmoko would have gained little interest during the last... 6 months? ;) |
| 15:27.20 | ewon | galexande: I've been googling, with little result beyond a generic spec sheet |
| 15:27.32 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07E6CE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:27.40 | happycube | heh |
| 15:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 15:27.46 | happycube | i want the BFG9001 |
| 15:28.32 | happycube | actually what i'd also like is to be able to run gta02 w/o battery ;) |
| 15:28.55 | happycube | (i know... us silly customers want everything) |
| 15:29.01 | moko-bunny | those items would add about $100k to the price :-P |
| 15:29.18 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 15:29.25 | happycube | i had to steal the battery out of my nokia to demo my neo on saturday |
| 15:29.32 | hrw | bye |
| 15:29.33 | happycube | cya |
| 15:29.38 | dernicklosekopf | mhm im in interessting to run a php-interpreter on a mobilephone... |
| 15:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 15:30.22 | no_mind | dernicklosekopf, its not that difficult. All you ahve to do is compile php with openembedded |
| 15:30.35 | guaqua | that's a bit like a mobile shower in a car...running php on cell phone |
| 15:30.41 | ewon | heh |
| 15:30.48 | no_mind | guaqua, lol |
| 15:30.54 | galexande | ewon, i see what you mean about th esmedia chip. their idea of developer relations is a golf game? |
| 15:31.01 | dernicklosekopf | quaqua: only just for fun :) |
| 15:31.25 | *** join/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 15:31.31 | no_mind | dernicklosekopf, if you want fun then try running blender3d on the phone |
| 15:32.00 | no_mind | .join #trivi |
| 15:32.31 | dernicklosekopf | i dont think that it works |
| 15:32.31 | SpeedEvil | dernicklosekopf: It's _possible_. Problems are: |
| 15:32.32 | mintee | anyone recieved the second round of shipping emails? |
| 15:33.20 | no_mind | mintee, nah, looks like they forgot to send those emails |
| 15:33.21 | SpeedEvil | Price, size of handset, weight, cost, flexibility. Pick any two for a modular phone. |
| 15:33.31 | mintee | no_mind, lol |
| 15:33.38 | Kensan | mintee: nope. |
| 15:33.46 | no_mind | SpeedEvil, what is the difference between price and cost |
| 15:33.51 | mintee | k, just making sure i wasn't singled out :P |
| 15:34.05 | SpeedEvil | Fundamentally, the problem is that you need mechanical fixings for the modular bits. You need a case round them, and plastic fittings for them to sit in. You need connectors. All of this is 'dead' weight. |
| 15:34.14 | mintee | price is for the consumer, cost is for the manufacture |
| 15:34.17 | dernicklosekopf | no_mind: price - that was the enduser pais |
| 15:34.21 | dernicklosekopf | pays |
| 15:34.23 | dernicklosekopf | or so |
| 15:34.33 | no_mind | dernicklosekopf, as an end user price == cost |
| 15:34.35 | ozarka | mintee: Did your card get billed? |
| 15:34.42 | SpeedEvil | And then you run into the issue that you have to size the modular bits so that the largest module will fit in them. |
| 15:34.46 | dernicklosekopf | costs: the prize that the developer have to pay |
| 15:34.54 | SpeedEvil | This wastes _lots_ of space on smaller modules. |
| 15:35.04 | guaqua | you could have limited modularity |
| 15:35.13 | mintee | ozarka, i donno yet... long story |
| 15:35.16 | guaqua | switch a few pieces, maybe |
| 15:35.16 | SpeedEvil | As an example, a 3-axis compass might take up 1cm*1cm*2mm of PCB space. |
| 15:35.19 | dernicklosekopf | and the difference between costs and price is the win for the company |
| 15:35.22 | no_mind | SpeedEvil, and what you nasticsmean by flexibility? I hope you dont expect your phone to do gy |
| 15:35.23 | aloril | no_mind: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:35.32 | no_mind | counter |
| 15:35.32 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in a day 10:12:14 (1.425±1.4 days) (1787;252) |
| 15:35.41 | SpeedEvil | It's _really_ hard to make a module of that size. |
| 15:35.43 | ozarka | mintee: I understand. :-) |
| 15:36.02 | SpeedEvil | Connectors ar the number one reliability problem in mobile equipment - after stuff the user can break. |
| 15:36.23 | SpeedEvil | flexibility - how much you can vary the phone. |
| 15:36.27 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 15:36.29 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil: i dont think that weight and size are a problem at the future |
| 15:37.08 | SpeedEvil | A modular phone will always be larger and heavier than a similar technology of non-modular phone. |
| 15:37.20 | SpeedEvil | Because the modularity adds cost, weight and volume. |
| 15:37.26 | galexande | speed, unless it's brilliantly done |
| 15:37.39 | SpeedEvil | Even if it's brilliantly done. |
| 15:37.53 | guaqua | if it's brilliantly done, it might weigh the same |
| 15:37.55 | galexande | speed, i had a laptop that was put together really cheaply, with off-the-shelf components like dell does, but they were fairly clever in their case design so it was thinner than an ibook |
| 15:37.59 | SpeedEvil | If you spend lots more money to change technology, then the modular phone can become smaller. |
| 15:38.04 | guaqua | and in a very limited scenario |
| 15:38.30 | guaqua | laptop, again is a different beast |
| 15:38.32 | galexande | what they did is to the greatest extent possible they used the internal components to provide structure to the case, rather than vice versa |
| 15:38.40 | guaqua | today's chip size is still too big to do the same |
| 15:39.03 | SpeedEvil | The fundamental problem is that you can do that with one arrangement of modules. |
| 15:39.09 | SpeedEvil | If you hand-optimise the thing. |
| 15:39.25 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil: the only problem that i see is that a modular-mobile-phone dont a lucrative business for companys |
| 15:39.28 | galexande | speed, that is true, but each module is fairly standard and can be upgraded independently for the most part. |
| 15:39.30 | SpeedEvil | However, you are stuck at a given size of module. |
| 15:39.54 | galexande | for laptops it is already standardized, for mobile devices it would have to take some future enhancement |
| 15:40.00 | XorA | if your gonna make it modular, make it wearable as well |
| 15:40.08 | galexande | but already the neo's permanent store is in a removable module |
| 15:40.10 | *** part/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:40.20 | SpeedEvil | But that's of a standard size. |
| 15:40.22 | galexande | and i don't think they really lose any space to speak of that way, compared to soldering flash onto the board. |
| 15:40.24 | SpeedEvil | And there is one of them. |
| 15:40.33 | SpeedEvil | Flash isn't the problem. |
| 15:40.34 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:40.40 | SpeedEvil | The problem is - for example - the GSM modem. |
| 15:40.47 | galexande | speed, yes but other problems can be approached the same way |
| 15:40.47 | squalyl | After you have developed a few PCBs you understand the pain of arranging connectors to allow modularity. Even for very simple PCBs. |
| 15:41.06 | SpeedEvil | If you make that swappable, you have to make the modem module large enough to accomodate the largest module available. |
| 15:41.06 | sandos | I hope that atleast the "entire" electronics will be modular at some point: you buy a nice shell, much like a metal clock today.. then you swap the entire "brain" of it. |
| 15:41.20 | galexande | there's not too much advantage to swapping the cell chipset after construction, but there is advantage to doing it before construction. and so the gsm is modularized in that way |
| 15:41.26 | dernicklosekopf | i dont see a problem in building a mainboard where you can plug in some components like a display, a little microphone or othe components... |
| 15:41.59 | SpeedEvil | dernicklosekopf: Unfortunately. This is one case where this is _HARD_. if you go into it in details. |
| 15:42.18 | squalyl | connectors are space consuming, too. |
| 15:42.18 | SpeedEvil | For example - LCDs are typically available only in fixed sizes. |
| 15:42.26 | galexande | dernick, the neo is already built that way. |
| 15:42.34 | SpeedEvil | Going to a custom LCD that will fit your modular system is _expensive_ |
| 15:42.39 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil: and? it is a problem? |
| 15:42.42 | dernicklosekopf | telephone... |
| 15:42.45 | galexande | everything that connects to the mainboard using a cable is removable and ultimately replacable |
| 15:42.53 | guaqua | we come to a philosophical argument again - all electronic components are modulat |
| 15:42.57 | guaqua | modulat |
| 15:42.58 | guaqua | modular! |
| 15:43.00 | Stephmw | dernicklosekopf: you're proposing to finance this stuff? |
| 15:43.12 | |R | cellular, odular, interactive, modular! |
| 15:43.27 | guaqua | they are to be assembled to form a product :) |
| 15:43.30 | SpeedEvil | guaqua: however - the PCB is _very_ flexible - at design time. You can shuffle around every component essentially for free. |
| 15:43.33 | Elrond | LaF0rge - Bitching about GTA01: Can I have the docs on the "how to power up the GPS", so I can compare that with the kernel sources? ;o) |
| 15:43.36 | mintee | Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring |
| 15:43.43 | happycube | i think that's in the wiki |
| 15:43.52 | galexande | speed, building a new pcb isn't very expensive either. that is the awesomest part of living in the future, i think |
| 15:43.56 | guaqua | SpeedEvil: exactly - and in most cases, what do you benefit for going too modular? |
| 15:44.06 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil: that is what i mean with a *lucrative business* :) |
| 15:44.27 | SpeedEvil | galexande: No - a PCB isn't expensive. Have you noticed how long it took to get GTA02 out the door after GTA01? |
| 15:44.41 | SpeedEvil | galexande: and this was with a competant design team working on the thing. |
| 15:44.43 | galexande | the sound chipset, the power management, everything is already modular, and you just plop them on a pcb and do the netlist shuffle and then figure out the problems and you've built a new device from modular components. |
| 15:44.49 | *** join/#openmoko Kosake (n=Andreas@stgt-590e2f54.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:44.54 | ewon | I like the way LaForge's wikipedia page has "see also: Theo de Raadt" on it |
| 15:45.17 | SpeedEvil | PCB != modular IMO. |
| 15:45.33 | dernicklosekopf | but i think that my english is too bad for talk about a complexe thematic like this... :( |
| 15:45.41 | galexande | speed, it's all about economies of scale |
| 15:45.54 | Writchie | fwiw i think a limited bit of modular expansion could be worked it without too much cost |
| 15:46.00 | SpeedEvil | galexande: true - seventeen different models is quite possible if you've got the volume. |
| 15:46.11 | Writchie | and modularity in the form of programmable logic devices |
| 15:46.24 | galexande | motorola does it... the motorola v60 is nearly identical to at least 10 different devices |
| 15:46.42 | galexande | differentiated by case style, cpu speed, radio, battery, and display |
| 15:46.44 | SpeedEvil | As I said. |
| 15:46.55 | SpeedEvil | seventeen different models is quite possible if you've got the volume. |
| 15:47.05 | galexande | speed yeah i was echoing you :) |
| 15:47.11 | squalyl | A big FPGA in the middle of the motherboard, and various antennas attached to it. We can wire it as we like! |
| 15:47.38 | SpeedEvil | squalyl: you do know that software radio at the moment will take some 20-50W to run the phone? |
| 15:47.41 | Writchie | i'd settle for just small in system programmable to get the interrupts right |
| 15:48.05 | galexande | speed well they make them small enough to just shove in the empty space |
| 15:48.12 | SpeedEvil | I'm planning to do that. |
| 15:48.16 | zecke | re |
| 15:48.17 | SpeedEvil | But I'm waiting on hardware. |
| 15:48.17 | galexande | i think this idea of sacrificing the second speaker to make room (like for wifi) is brilliant |
| 15:48.32 | Writchie | ? |
| 15:48.33 | galexande | speed, do you have a webpage of some of your projects? |
| 15:48.38 | squalyl | SpeedEvil: lol |
| 15:48.45 | galexande | (past projects) |
| 15:48.45 | SpeedEvil | [[Expansion Back]] on the wiki pretty much. |
| 15:48.51 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 15:49.40 | *** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@blinkenshell.org) |
| 15:49.44 | aloril | small FPGA for routing signals between modules? (well.. I don't think modular is feasible, but routing FPGA might otherwise anyway make sense?) |
| 15:50.09 | galexande | aloril, well most of the modular componentts offer a lot of routing capacity anyways |
| 15:51.16 | Elrond | Good morning mickeyl ;-) |
| 15:51.28 | mickeyl | yawn |
| 15:51.28 | galexande | hahahaha i love this idea of hooking it up to a bike computer |
| 15:51.29 | mickeyl | morning Elrond |
| 15:51.52 | squalyl | I just remarked that my ipaq 4700 lost a screw Oo |
| 15:52.44 | Writchie | using a CPLD for all the assorted IRQ's, SDIO, etc, plus a single expansion connector would add little cost |
| 15:52.56 | Kosake | how can it loose a screw? |
| 15:53.05 | Writchie | the CPLD means you can fix mistakes without reworking the board |
| 15:53.13 | squalyl | I keep it with me all the time |
| 15:53.16 | galexande | writchie, yeah but almost all of that is completely reprogramable anyways |
| 15:53.19 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: A limited subset of mistakes. |
| 15:53.27 | squalyl | This is the screw next to the stylus place |
| 15:53.29 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: At a power and space and cost cost. |
| 15:53.32 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 15:53.35 | Writchie | many of the ones we have now |
| 15:53.42 | squalyl | putting the stylus in and out may have unlocked it |
| 15:53.53 | SpeedEvil | galexande: I plan to add http://megatunix.sourceforge.net/ on my neo. |
| 15:53.56 | Writchie | little space cost for the CPLD |
| 15:54.00 | galexande | my ipaq hasn't been able to retain a stylus for years :( |
| 15:54.01 | SpeedEvil | To tune my car. |
| 15:54.24 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: $5 for the smallest ones. Which adds up to $10 on the price. $10 here, $10 there, ... |
| 15:54.35 | Writchie | what? $1 |
| 15:55.05 | squalyl | galexande: mine too. I just realize the link between the screw and the stylus retention problems :( |
| 15:55.19 | Writchie | i'm thinking xilinx like parts |
| 15:55.21 | aloril | PIC or other small CPU sounds quite interesting addition |
| 15:55.46 | squalyl | I had interesting experiences with a small 200k gates xilinx fpga in my school |
| 15:55.49 | sandos | maybe AVR |
| 15:55.50 | sandos | =) |
| 15:55.52 | Writchie | forget PIC - use arm 7's , we already at least 2 of them |
| 15:55.55 | squalyl | it was able to run a 50 MHz softcore cpu |
| 15:56.05 | happycube | actually i heard a ton of cellphones use cpld's to work around hw bugs ;) |
| 15:56.36 | galexande | aloril, but why |
| 15:56.44 | galexande | it's a cellphone not an albatross :) |
| 15:57.01 | BryceLeo|Work | uit |
| 15:57.01 | SpeedEvil | To do accelerometer and touch-sensing |
| 15:57.40 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil: would you give me your gta? |
| 15:58.00 | SpeedEvil | I plan on possbly selling kits. |
| 15:58.04 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 15:58.04 | SpeedEvil | Depending on how things go. |
| 15:58.06 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: should have some power figures in a few minutes |
| 15:58.26 | aloril | galexande: for doing stuff that runs OK on slow CPU to save power |
| 15:58.34 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: :) |
| 15:58.36 | dernicklosekopf | selling kits? |
| 15:58.39 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5536B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:58.51 | SpeedEvil | Of accel + touch-sensor. |
| 15:58.58 | Writchie | tms430 would have been a kick-ass way to handle the PM |
| 15:59.08 | dernicklosekopf | accel? |
| 15:59.16 | SpeedEvil | accelerometer |
| 15:59.19 | squalyl | sigh... still compiling... I did not touch a single source line today. I spent all day compiling. too bad. |
| 15:59.21 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 15:59.34 | ewon | squalyl: console development, compile times measured in hours |
| 15:59.43 | galexande | speed, megatunix uses the megasquirt ecu? |
| 15:59.48 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 15:59.57 | dando | What is the difference between a geek and a nurd? |
| 16:00.05 | dernicklosekopf | oh like a wii controller |
| 16:00.16 | squalyl | geeks has chances to become normal one day, not the nerd. |
| 16:00.33 | dando | okay |
| 16:00.49 | dando | :) |
| 16:00.51 | galexande | i thought it was the other way around, geeks are hopeless |
| 16:00.52 | squalyl | not sure... :D Just my humble opinion ! |
| 16:01.06 | squalyl | ah, it may depends on local legends ! |
| 16:01.22 | dando | nurd sounds harder |
| 16:01.38 | squalyl | I agree |
| 16:01.54 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil: are you a distributor of the openmoko? |
| 16:03.33 | squalyl | OK bye then. End of work day here. See u tomorrow! |
| 16:03.48 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:04.33 | Kheldar | nerds are younger geeks |
| 16:04.50 | dernicklosekopf | what do you mean with "geeks"? |
| 16:04.52 | galexande | mid august now?? |
| 16:05.40 | *** join/#openmoko Husare (n=AD@stgt-590e2f54.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:06.11 | dando | so richard Stallman is a geek |
| 16:06.23 | dernicklosekopf | do the neo support realtimeencryption? |
| 16:06.30 | dernicklosekopf | whos richard stallman? |
| 16:06.48 | ewon | lol |
| 16:06.50 | ewon | oh dear. |
| 16:07.00 | dando | dernicklosekopf : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek |
| 16:07.02 | ewon | dernicklosekopf: you are clearly an MS imposter. Get out. |
| 16:07.04 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: for this question you should really use google:) |
| 16:07.28 | dernicklosekopf | ewon: do you have a problem with windows users? |
| 16:07.38 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: www.stallman.org |
| 16:07.43 | dernicklosekopf | mmp: k |
| 16:07.53 | *** join/#openmoko devestate (n=devestat@r02amsdm2.desktop.umr.edu) |
| 16:08.14 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: this person is quite well known in FOSS world, so not knowing it sounds a bit suspiciously:) |
| 16:08.14 | ewon | dernicklosekopf: users? certainly no, I'm one myself. |
| 16:08.23 | ewon | what mmp said. |
| 16:09.19 | thomasg | hm, the green dead pixel really sucks on dark backgrounds |
| 16:10.23 | dernicklosekopf | is a geek a good or a bad word? |
| 16:10.35 | thomasg | depends |
| 16:10.38 | happycube | depends on what you make of it |
| 16:10.39 | ckuethe | "yes" |
| 16:10.41 | happycube | (and your friends ;) ) |
| 16:10.46 | thomasg | for computerfreaks it is :) |
| 16:10.55 | happycube | (and if you have no friends, that's nerd-dom, at least where i come from) |
| 16:11.24 | ckuethe | it's like "queer" ... some people use it as a title, some people use it as an epithet |
| 16:12.16 | dernicklosekopf | dando: Computer-Geek nennt man eine Person mit stark gesteigertem Interesse an Computern und neuen Medien, hufig mit einer intensiven Beziehung zum Internet. |
| 16:12.40 | dando | dernicklosekopf: Ahh ja. |
| 16:12.42 | dernicklosekopf | dando: meinen die damit statt einer beziehung zu menschen, eine zum internet? |
| 16:13.06 | dando | dernicklosekopf: Ich denke das wird so sein. |
| 16:13.21 | Kheldar | ce channel devient incompréhensible |
| 16:13.29 | dernicklosekopf | lol |
| 16:13.38 | Kosake | :) |
| 16:14.03 | dando | but i would say a geek is not a bad word anymore! |
| 16:14.11 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 16:14.13 | dando | or a nurd |
| 16:14.15 | dando | nerd |
| 16:14.26 | dernicklosekopf | what learn pupils in america or england as second language? |
| 16:14.42 | Kosake | spanish i guess |
| 16:14.42 | dando | i dont know |
| 16:14.54 | dando | spanisch french german |
| 16:15.17 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: the word 'geek' doesn't neccessarily has to be used in computer-sciences context |
| 16:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M91f0.m.pppool.de) |
| 16:15.34 | Kheldar | in some parts of the US spanish is more like the national langage :/ |
| 16:15.37 | Kheldar | :p |
| 16:15.45 | dernicklosekopf | if the DDR exist some years longer, i perhaps learnd russia as second language :) |
| 16:16.01 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: what mean of DDR? :) |
| 16:16.05 | mmp | meaning |
| 16:16.21 | dernicklosekopf | hey, that is world history... |
| 16:16.30 | Kheldar | A geek is kind of a person who pursues his interest in whatever further than most people would already find mental :p |
| 16:16.35 | dernicklosekopf | it calls: Deutsch Demokratische Republik |
| 16:16.43 | Kosake | == German Democratic Republic |
| 16:16.46 | dernicklosekopf | mmp: loool |
| 16:17.04 | galexande | deutschland!! |
| 16:17.07 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: well, as I said, it has more meanings:) |
| 16:17.23 | mmp | Kheldar: :) |
| 16:17.26 | galexande | so, i guess the moral of the story is that i will never receive my phone |
| 16:17.47 | mmp | quite sad story, though... |
| 16:17.48 | dernicklosekopf | mmp: mhm i think when i speak from russia, germany and *some years later* that you know what i mean ^^ |
| 16:18.36 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: :) Well, now I know, just that I don't usually think about world history in first place. |
| 16:18.58 | dando | english is hard to write! The spoke english is drifting of the writen english. More than every other language. The witen english is about in the year 1400 |
| 16:19.06 | dando | spoke = spoken |
| 16:19.29 | dernicklosekopf | mmp: mhm yes, its relative... |
| 16:19.36 | mmp | dando: there are more difficult languages; I think english is good consensus for this:) |
| 16:19.37 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I'm not able to reproduce the rssreader problem here. :( |
| 16:19.48 | mmp | but, sorry for OT:) |
| 16:20.13 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: weird, somehow smells like a bitbake issue, but 1.6.x hasn't changed in a while :) |
| 16:20.15 | dando | english is not hard for you, because it has german and roman roots |
| 16:20.23 | dernicklosekopf | i have more problems with the english grammar as soon as other parts of this language... |
| 16:20.27 | mmp | this is #openmoko, not #world :) |
| 16:20.28 | dando | @ mmp |
| 16:20.32 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: my bet would be the time of the server is bad, as we do a checkout by day |
| 16:21.14 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Could be. |
| 16:21.26 | dernicklosekopf | mmp: were peoples, peoples like to small talk |
| 16:21.27 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Let me see if if I find a way into it. :) |
| 16:21.42 | dando | I have an example for this: knife the k was spoken 1800. It isnt spoken anymore but still writes itself with a k |
| 16:21.44 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: yes, but we should not disturb ongoing work here:) |
| 16:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko Dmitry_Platonov (n=hawk@user-89-248-176-130.gagarino.net) |
| 16:22.08 | mmp | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:22.19 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/fr]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973/de]] [[Talk:Disassembling_Neo1973/de]] [[User:Jas]] [[Shipping_Notes]] [[Talk:Dfu-util]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Location_based_reminders]] [[Media_Content]] [[Wifidog_Hotspot_Finder]] and other changes |
| 16:22.22 | mmp | I think it is here for that purpose:) |
| 16:22.44 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: ah, it's on the same as people. I have an account there. Tue Jul 31 18:25:58 CEST 2007 |
| 16:22.50 | dernicklosekopf | mmp: and i like to talk about world-things with intelligent nerds :) |
| 16:22.51 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: looks sane |
| 16:23.07 | mmp | dernicklosekopf: :) |
| 16:23.14 | mmp | dando: my mother tongue is from slavic language family:) |
| 16:23.51 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: the only thing you could do, is throw away your tarball and svn tree of the rssreader and try again |
| 16:23.52 | dando | i gues slavic has german roots too |
| 16:23.54 | LetoTo | mmp: want to translate 100 lines of i8n text for me? :) |
| 16:23.59 | dando | but im not sure |
| 16:24.32 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: OK, I try this first and do a complete rebuild over night |
| 16:25.16 | mmp | LetoTo: point me to .po file:) |
| 16:26.18 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: don't do the rebuild, if the other thing fails I will take a look at buildhost-old :) |
| 16:26.29 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: ha, it fails. :) |
| 16:26.45 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: It checkouts rev 2520 |
| 16:26.54 | dando | mmp: looked it up in wikipedia. it has indogerman roots |
| 16:27.10 | dernicklosekopf | the german government plans to save the data where a gsm mobile-phone send informations to a station, can i avoid this perhaps with the neo1973? |
| 16:27.19 | LetoTo | http://otr.cypherpunks.ca/pidgin-otr.pot |
| 16:27.29 | happycube | dern - if it's tower-side nope |
| 16:27.30 | dando | dernicklosekopf: No |
| 16:27.34 | *** join/#openmoko docdoc (n=docdoc@9.206-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:27.34 | dernicklosekopf | they plan to save this data for over 6 months... |
| 16:27.40 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: That is way to new for the SRCDATE. |
| 16:27.47 | happycube | at least it *is* tower-side and not some sort of encrypted sim *glares at at&t* |
| 16:27.54 | SpeedEvil | dernicklosekopf: no |
| 16:27.54 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Your commit one day later was 2386 |
| 16:28.08 | docdoc | hi |
| 16:28.10 | SpeedEvil | dernicklosekopf: send data over the network, they can track it. Live with it or don't use a mobile. |
| 16:28.15 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: two issues: bitbake bug (but I would want to know why it shows now) |
| 16:28.17 | docdoc | what is the current discussion topic |
| 16:28.18 | dernicklosekopf | and perhaps with another number, that dont retrace to me, or some little tricks? |
| 16:28.28 | SpeedEvil | No, you can't do that. |
| 16:28.29 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: do a svn log by date and check which rev is there |
| 16:28.40 | dernicklosekopf | SpeedEvil: i dont want that the government save this data... |
| 16:28.55 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: It uses the set SRCDATE at least in the name openmoko-rssreader-0.0.1+svn20070722-r1 but uses a newer svn rev |
| 16:28.55 | SpeedEvil | dernicklosekopf: So don't use a mobile. And they can't. |
| 16:28.56 | dernicklosekopf | they can see where i was, what i have done ect.... |
| 16:28.57 | *** join/#openmoko Zaireeka (n=jamie@host86-133-146-77.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:28.58 | dando | U can vote for another goverment |
| 16:29.10 | dernicklosekopf | dando: hahahaha npd, or what? |
| 16:29.14 | dando | thats the thnig to do |
| 16:29.14 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.87) |
| 16:29.21 | SpeedEvil | Pirate Party! |
| 16:29.22 | *** part/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 16:29.24 | docdoc | any news on the new proc speed for october |
| 16:29.32 | SpeedEvil | docdoc: 400 IIRC. |
| 16:29.33 | dando | dernicklosekopf: fdp gr?nen |
| 16:29.39 | ewon | more than you'll need, less than you'd like. |
| 16:29.49 | docdoc | samsung proc |
| 16:29.54 | dernicklosekopf | dando: appd |
| 16:29.55 | dando | someone who stopps scheuble |
| 16:30.11 | dernicklosekopf | dando: appd ;) |
| 16:30.25 | StylusEater_Work | samsung arm yes? |
| 16:30.39 | dando | dernicklosekopf: appd ? |
| 16:30.47 | docdoc | what is the resolution of the screen? What does mean QVGA? |
| 16:30.59 | guaqua | docdoc: see wiki |
| 16:31.05 | spliffy | dando: anarchistische pogo partei ;) |
| 16:31.06 | guaqua | docdoc: and use google |
| 16:31.15 | dernicklosekopf | dando: i dont really know the *A* but its like antifaschichstische pogopartei deutschland |
| 16:31.32 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-08de0b38d7602b26) |
| 16:31.42 | dernicklosekopf | spliffy; yes your right :) |
| 16:32.01 | dando | Im notfall die Partei Bibelterue christen ! |
| 16:32.11 | zecke | mickeyl: when is the neo going to do dvb-t(h)? |
| 16:32.34 | mmp | LetoTo: pm |
| 16:32.47 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I get the feeling mickeyl svn moves have broken it. |
| 16:33.04 | dernicklosekopf | dando: not better than npd... |
| 16:33.06 | LetoTo | mmp: ohh stupid freenode. let me identify |
| 16:33.13 | mmp | LetoTo: np:) |
| 16:33.15 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: It worked before and I see nothing fishy in the logs besides that |
| 16:33.26 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: then svn would be pretty crappy, oh wait it is :) |
| 16:33.31 | dando | dernicklosekopf: i guess so too |
| 16:34.09 | SpeedEvil | zek: a long time |
| 16:34.13 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: More the combination of svn, bitbake and perhaps fishy changes. :) |
| 16:34.15 | SpeedEvil | zec: a long time |
| 16:34.16 | dernicklosekopf | dando: you need to see at youtube what the npd does at the landtag at sachsen anhalt... |
| 16:34.17 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: start bitbake with -D, -DD or -DDD and check how it is executing svn (or use strace -fF and filter for exec) |
| 16:34.37 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@gprs-ggsn5-nat.mobil.telenor.no) |
| 16:34.48 | dando | dernicklosekopf: why ? |
| 16:34.51 | SpeedEvil | zecke: It's way behind wishlists for even stuff like 3G. Expect it several models down the line. |
| 16:34.53 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Yeah, I'll do this in some minutes. Just need to finish something else |
| 16:34.53 | dernicklosekopf | dando: that isnt a party, thats a handfull of idiots... |
| 16:34.55 | mickeyl | zecke: 2009 |
| 16:35.51 | guaqua | i wonder how closed the dvb-h is? |
| 16:36.04 | SpeedEvil | guaqua: there are chipsets available. |
| 16:36.11 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 16:36.15 | SpeedEvil | zecke: 2009 - if OM takes off. |
| 16:36.26 | Kosake | dernicklosekopf, scheuble kommt mir aber auch langsam vor wie ein altnazi mit seinem überwachungswahn ;) |
| 16:36.32 | mjr | just recompress dvb-t at home and stream it to the cell via 3g (when available) ;) |
| 16:36.39 | dernicklosekopf | dando: originally they was 12 peoples at the parlament from the npd, one was kicked because they had child-porns, 3 left voluntary, and 2 was kicked by the own party |
| 16:36.50 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: s/if/when/ :D |
| 16:37.06 | zecke | guaqua: not closed at all. it is the same modulation as with dvb-t (+4k fft) and then it is just IP |
| 16:37.20 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: True - I mean - if it takes off in the mobile market. |
| 16:37.28 | dernicklosekopf | kosake: "wenn ich scheuble sehe, frage ich mich wie man arschloch noch steigern kann" |
| 16:37.30 | mickeyl | :) |
| 16:37.30 | SpeedEvil | I _hope_ it will. |
| 16:38.00 | zecke | mickeyl: you really need ellen as usability expert |
| 16:38.36 | SpeedEvil | I personally want FM. |
| 16:38.36 | mickeyl | zecke: yes. will she be at camp? |
| 16:38.43 | SpeedEvil | That's small, and very cheap to add. |
| 16:39.11 | dernicklosekopf | dando: and the *parteivorsitzende* (dont know the english word) has said in a intern letter, that the members of the parlement selected by random... |
| 16:39.14 | Dmitry_Platonov | I'd like radio scanner :-) |
| 16:39.14 | SpeedEvil | some 6*6mm of boardspace and $5 cost |
| 16:39.49 | dernicklosekopf | i cant understand how this party got over 7% voices... |
| 16:40.25 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: Do you know what the ROM in the SoC does? I note by teh partcode that it's 48K |
| 16:43.09 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: 1st test with fully charged neo draws 260ma for 1.3 watts ugh! |
| 16:43.32 | SpeedEvil | Ballpark expected. |
| 16:43.42 | SpeedEvil | With everything on. |
| 16:43.43 | Writchie | i guess there is zero PM at this point |
| 16:43.48 | SpeedEvil | Not zero. |
| 16:43.55 | Writchie | on and off 2 modes |
| 16:43.55 | SpeedEvil | The backlight and other stuff turns off. |
| 16:44.41 | Writchie | gms radio is off I think |
| 16:44.50 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: you're sure it's not charging the battery? |
| 16:45.07 | Writchie | no because I don't trust the charger circuit actually works right |
| 16:45.16 | Writchie | it's been on 24 hours continuosly |
| 16:45.27 | Writchie | i interrupted it just to install the probe cable |
| 16:45.30 | happycube | i hope nobody's battery explodes... |
| 16:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:45.50 | SpeedEvil | Well - when not on a call - the GSM modem should use only 30mW or so on average. Maybe 10mW |
| 16:46.01 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@port-87-234-84-205.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 16:46.02 | Writchie | that's what I figure. |
| 16:46.09 | Writchie | 50mw tops |
| 16:46.11 | sannes | CTARGET for the neo1973 would be arm-unknown-linux-gnu ? |
| 16:46.22 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:46.24 | dernicklosekopf | are peoples in this channel who responsible for the production? |
| 16:46.37 | Writchie | i'm more interested in gprs consumption with always active connection |
| 16:46.54 | Writchie | hold the phone |
| 16:47.09 | Writchie | 190ma with backlight off |
| 16:47.10 | ferric | ahh! shipment 2 is scheduled for mid-aug! |
| 16:47.13 | SpeedEvil | dernicklosekopf: very occasionally. |
| 16:47.26 | SpeedEvil | ferric: that seems to be the next 500 though. |
| 16:47.36 | SpeedEvil | Which still leaves a lot of people in the cold. |
| 16:47.37 | Writchie | .95 watts |
| 16:47.39 | ferric | SpeedEvil: yes, which would hopefully include mine. |
| 16:47.41 | ferric | SpeedEvil: oh? |
| 16:48.02 | SpeedEvil | At least - the next batch hasn't been mentioned. |
| 16:48.24 | dernicklosekopf | dando: let es make open source politics :) |
| 16:48.28 | SpeedEvil | Hmm - so that's slightly lower than the earlier figure for backlight. |
| 16:48.39 | Writchie | need a strap on pack of 4 2500mahr cells |
| 16:48.58 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07E6CE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:49.03 | ferric | SpeedEvil: i'm sure they're preparing for it, but the lack of sales transparency is troubling. |
| 16:49.10 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 16:49.31 | SpeedEvil | I want to know if I can say to developish friends 'yes, you can buy one now'. |
| 16:49.41 | SpeedEvil | And not have them delayed several weeks. |
| 16:50.21 | mwester | Shipment 2 is the second 500, and is mid-august??? So for those of us who are probably in the second 1000.... (let me break out my calculator, er calendar...) |
| 16:50.40 | SpeedEvil | That hasn't quite been confirmed. |
| 16:50.45 | SpeedEvil | Basically. |
| 16:51.00 | ferric | well, demand forecasting is tough |
| 16:51.01 | SpeedEvil | The number of shipments in P1_Owners looks pretty much bang on for 500 |
| 16:51.24 | SpeedEvil | There was another 500 from the first batch. |
| 16:51.46 | mwester | Batch 1: mfg May, testing in June, delivery in July and August. Assuming Batch 2 will be manufactured in August, that's October and November for delivery. |
| 16:51.49 | dernicklosekopf | *the gravity is overvalued, we dont need it, how we see it in the outer space* |
| 16:52.08 | SpeedEvil | It's not impossible that if they pulled the trigger on July 11 or so, that the mid-august batch could be the first 500, and a new batch |
| 16:52.29 | SpeedEvil | The second 500 |
| 16:52.38 | juri_ | concidering they've got customers lined up arround the virtual block.. |
| 16:53.58 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:54.08 | mwester | Yes, but my point was that if they will be able to meet the demand in the next 6 weeks, someone should say so. The closer the ship date gets to the next generation "rumored" date, the more customers will leave the line and wait. |
| 16:54.21 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: but it is rev 2520 according to the svn log |
| 16:54.31 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: LC_ALL=C svn log -r {20070722}:1 http://svn.openmoko.org | less |
| 16:54.36 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: actually i have no idea. i never knew it has a ROM :) |
| 16:54.38 | dernicklosekopf | im going to play a round solitaire... |
| 16:54.39 | mwester | If I have to wait until October, why not wait for G2? |
| 16:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko VladoK (n=vlado@217.67.25.229) |
| 16:55.30 | zecke | mickeyl: stefan_schmidt : you managed to mess up svn :) |
| 16:55.45 | zecke | mickeyl: stefan_schmidt : revisions are linear dates are not increasing :) |
| 16:56.06 | mickeyl | zecke: bummer. what's the actual problem? |
| 16:56.25 | zecke | mickeyl: r2406 is from 2007-07-27 |
| 16:56.35 | zecke | mickeyl: r2407 is from 2007-06-27 |
| 16:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=billybob@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 16:56.49 | zecke | mickeyl: checking out by date stops at 2520 :) |
| 16:57.09 | zecke | mickeyl: a) clock skew b) messing with svnadmin instead of using git :) |
| 16:57.34 | mickeyl | zecke: hmm. can we ignore it? |
| 16:57.43 | mickeyl | or how can we fix? |
| 16:57.43 | ferric | mwester: maybe that's the plan |
| 16:57.56 | duffyd | mwester: yeah, me too |
| 16:58.21 | zecke | mickeyl: check out rssreader by revision |
| 16:58.21 | zecke | mickeyl: switch to git :) |
| 16:58.21 | ferric | mwester: build P1 for 1000 devs only, get the community to fix the software and hardware issues and then build p2 |
| 16:58.21 | ferric | :) |
| 16:58.47 | zecke | mickeyl: have you used svnadmin load to import the ohand changes? |
| 16:58.49 | mwester | But they already did that with P0 -- wasn't that how P0 was presented? |
| 16:59.03 | mickeyl | zecke: i didn't do it. LaF0rge did |
| 16:59.13 | mickeyl | zecke: but i think so. they sent us an svndump |
| 16:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko Kheldar_ (i=maiano20@arkana.iiens.net) |
| 16:59.43 | ferric | mwester: yeah, look at the state of the software right now. :) clearly P0 achieved lower-level software/hardware fixes, but more work is needed. |
| 16:59.53 | zecke | mickeyl: increasing dates is a invariant of svn :} |
| 17:00.11 | *** part/#openmoko Kheldar (n=chatzill@LNeuilly-152-21-51-6.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:02.40 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 17:03.00 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno2 (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
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| 17:03.59 | Writchie| | SpeedEvil: power tests interrupted by 50 MegaVolt local disturbance |
| 17:05.19 | happycube | ouch |
| 17:05.23 | mickeyl | zecke: LaF0rge ? |
| 17:05.36 | prpplague | nbd: ping |
| 17:05.42 | nbd | prpplague: pong |
| 17:07.06 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:07.33 | mbuf | should someone remove the CIMI number listed in ligsmd-0.1+svnnow-r0_0_2381/gsm/logs/screenlog.0 ? |
| 17:11.25 | prpplague | nbd: i white wired an external interrupt to the sddat1 line |
| 17:11.26 | ferric | aloril: yes, but not anytime soon |
| 17:11.44 | prpplague | nbd: using that as the sdio interrupt, it works great |
| 17:11.53 | prpplague | nbd: the latency is around 10ms |
| 17:12.04 | prpplague | nbd: which is much better than i had expected |
| 17:12.23 | prpplague | nbd: the thruput on my code is still alot lower than expected |
| 17:12.26 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo|Work (i=bryce@trans-am.dreamhost.com) |
| 17:12.44 | prpplague | nbd: around 1024kbps |
| 17:12.49 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 17:12.54 | prpplague | nbd: which is still better than most sdio wifi cards |
| 17:13.06 | prpplague | nbd: but much lower than i had hoped |
| 17:13.22 | *** join/#openmoko _diego_ (n=diego@host-84-222-23-152.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:14.02 | nbd | but this is in 1bit mode, right? |
| 17:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@66.109.221.202) |
| 17:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 17:25.59 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 17:27.07 | prpplague | nbd: yea, what i'm doing for 4-bit mode is right before the 4-bit data transfers is disable the irq and re-enable after the 4 bit transfer is complete |
| 17:31.14 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
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| 17:37.04 | *** join/#openmoko noon (n=noon@p57B250A1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:37.10 | noon | hello |
| 17:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@4.pool85-50-127.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 17:38.06 | noon | SpeedEvil: has gllin timeouts? |
| 17:38.10 | Mandarino | Buenas |
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| 17:40.19 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 17:40.23 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 17:41.24 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0D765.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:42.08 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: eeeh, that is really ugly |
| 17:43.32 | noon | SpeedEvil: i thought, that we could delay the answers from the HH and see how the nmea is effectet |
| 17:44.49 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: It really was the svn dump import from ohand. |
| 17:45.18 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: That was the first one we got from the dump. :( |
| 17:47.53 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: a) Using 2007-06-26 of the reader easy one) b) fix webkit |
| 17:48.32 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: The problem with date<->rev should be go away with RP proposal for 1.8, right? |
| 17:49.08 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I see not much sense in hacking around in the overlay for long as it will be deprecated in some days. |
| 17:49.35 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=Administ@pD953B16F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:50.41 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I set the SRCDATE to 2007-06-26 for the overlay and take a look at webkit in OE for a proper longtime fix |
| 17:50.54 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Anything against this old date for your code? :) |
| 17:51.35 | zecke | not relly |
| 17:52.40 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: ok, I test and commit. |
| 17:52.53 | stefan_schmidt | ...once parsing is done... |
| 17:53.14 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:53.29 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-255.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:54.28 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 17:56.01 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 17:56.10 | zecke | ls |
| 17:56.32 | alphaone | classes conf contrib COPYING.MIT files MAINTAINERS _MTN packages README removal.txt site |
| 17:56.37 | ewon | heh |
| 17:56.49 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 17:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-255.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:56.58 | zecke | df -m |
| 17:57.01 | zecke | ;) |
| 17:57.03 | noon | SpeedEvil: was just an idea i had... |
| 17:57.21 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: btw, where to do life now? |
| 17:57.28 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Own flat, WG? |
| 17:57.51 | alphaone | zecke: nice try :-) |
| 17:58.30 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: Bus ready for the camp? |
| 17:58.52 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: own flat. Nobody likes us! |
| 17:59.01 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: us? |
| 17:59.14 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: I know nobody likes you :) |
| 17:59.17 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Of course. Just have to get the stuff down there :-) |
| 17:59.21 | *** part/#openmoko VladoK (n=vlado@217.67.25.229) |
| 17:59.25 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: My GF do :) |
| 17:59.33 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: heh |
| 17:59.33 | woglinde | lol |
| 17:59.34 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host99-122-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:59.50 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: well, that is like your mother. She is likely to like you as well |
| 18:00.14 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-192-185.netcologne.de) |
| 18:00.44 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: heh |
| 18:01.19 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: You're a crazy guy sometimes. :) |
| 18:02.16 | woglinde | stefan he is sarcastic |
| 18:02.19 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: Who cares about your opinion? *caught* ;) |
| 18:02.20 | alphaone | Ah, what the hell. /me likes stefan_schmidt |
| 18:02.28 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Righto |
| 18:02.44 | woglinde | stefan but thats okay for a disabled moron *g* |
| 18:02.48 | alphaone | That was an "eigentor", I would think. :-) |
| 18:03.17 | alphaone | Wow, what's gotten you all so worked up about each other?! |
| 18:03.35 | woglinde | alphaone dont oversee the fun |
| 18:04.02 | alphaone | woglinde: I don't. Usually I'm the first to bash stefan_schmidt. :-) |
| 18:04.10 | woglinde | *g* |
| 18:04.11 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 18:04.32 | woglinde | bashing with some cube? |
| 18:04.55 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: Why oh why did I show you all the fun of bashing people |
| 18:05.16 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: Before you had known me you were a nice guy... |
| 18:05.26 | zecke | lol |
| 18:05.44 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Before I knew you people were nice to me when I was nice to them. |
| 18:06.06 | stefan_schmidt | good point |
| 18:08.24 | noiddd | <alphaone> classes conf contrib COPYING.MIT files MAINTAINERS _MTN packages README removal.txt site |
| 18:08.24 | noiddd | <ewon> heh |
| 18:08.24 | noiddd | *** no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) has joined channel #openmoko |
| 18:08.24 | noiddd | *** mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-255.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined channel #openmoko |
| 18:08.24 | noiddd | <zecke> df -m |
| 18:08.25 | noiddd | <zecke> ;) |
| 18:08.27 | noiddd | crap |
| 18:08.29 | noiddd | sorry |
| 18:08.35 | zecke | woglinde: I'm not disabled, just special :) |
| 18:08.36 | noiddd | dropped my mouse and caught it badly |
| 18:08.46 | alphaone | noiddd: lol |
| 18:09.24 | Elrond | alphaone - What did stefan_schmidt do to you? ;o) |
| 18:09.39 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo|Work (i=bryce@trans-am.dreamhost.com) |
| 18:09.45 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: You are not allowed to tell. |
| 18:09.54 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: I'll kiil your pony. |
| 18:09.57 | stefan_schmidt | kill |
| 18:10.09 | Elrond | alphaone has a pony? |
| 18:10.12 | BryceLeo|Work | man, looks like i sure missed something fun |
| 18:12.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2588 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: |
| 18:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * Fix regression of rssreader webkit dependency. (#671) |
| 18:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Context: Due to the o-hand svndump import we have non-linear date <->svnrev |
| 18:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: matching. r2406 is from 2007-07-27 and r2407 is from 2007-06-27. |
| 18:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: This quck hack sets the date to 20070626 to work around it. Real fix will come |
| 18:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: in OE.dev to have a working webkit and allow rss-reader to depend on it. |
| 18:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:12.46 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.184) |
| 18:12.55 | noiddd | everyone has a pony of some kind |
| 18:12.56 | gamin | is there any news when those above 2540 will get a phone? |
| 18:13.06 | noiddd | its the Lore |
| 18:13.21 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: he has an last.fm acount. And everybody with such an account got a pony |
| 18:13.58 | Elrond | alphaone - Go and hide your pony from stefan_schmidt ;) |
| 18:16.22 | gamin | I remember having read that the 800 pound gorilla FIC can produce 100.000 phones per month.... |
| 18:16.35 | gamin | ...but he seems not in the right mood ;( |
| 18:16.56 | ckuethe | i think that's once the design cycle is stabilized |
| 18:17.41 | Elrond | gamin - Well, if you gonna request 1e6 phones, they'll wake up and produce them in a month for you. ;-) |
| 18:17.42 | ckuethe | if nokia came to them and said "here's the schematics, the blueprints and the software load, make us a bunch" and no engineering work was required, the manufacturing would fall into place quite quickly |
| 18:18.04 | gamin | Elrond: okay I'll do that |
| 18:18.21 | ckuethe | ps, you'll need to give them a retainer |
| 18:18.30 | Elrond | gamin - Well, they'll probably first ask, if you could pay it, of course. ;-) |
| 18:18.32 | gamin | let's hope they don't try to charge my credit card before they have made them ;) |
| 18:18.33 | ckuethe | say... 1% of 1e6 phones |
| 18:18.53 | ckuethe | or at least enough to cover the tool costs |
| 18:19.14 | stefan_schmidt | gamin: There are already a second and third batch of phones in progress. Problem is more the whole shipping process |
| 18:19.29 | Elrond | Right. |
| 18:19.41 | gamin | thanks stefan_schmidt, that sounds very positive! |
| 18:19.42 | Elrond | Remember: They have no idea of delevering phones to single persons. |
| 18:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko fletch (n=fletch@doener.lieferservice.cc) |
| 18:19.58 | Elrond | If you ask for 1e6 phones, they'll know how to deliver them to you. ;-) |
| 18:20.06 | gamin | :) |
| 18:20.11 | dsilva | how come all the buttons are so tiny? |
| 18:20.25 | Elrond | dsilva - You mean the on-screen ones? |
| 18:20.29 | dsilva | yeah |
| 18:20.34 | Elrond | dsilva - And which of the on-screen ones? |
| 18:20.41 | stefan_schmidt | gamin: At least we got more orders then we hoped. With the announcement from GTA02 in mind :) |
| 18:20.43 | Elrond | The buttons of the dialer are pretty okay. |
| 18:20.52 | dsilva | yeah, the dialer is ok |
| 18:21.01 | dsilva | the buttons in the corner and the menus are tiny |
| 18:21.07 | dsilva | you have to use your nail or something |
| 18:21.21 | gamin | stefan_schmidt, so no probs with suppliers, i.e. of the screens? |
| 18:21.27 | Elrond | dsilva - There's a full new UI redesign in the workings. Things already got commited for it. |
| 18:21.33 | stefan_schmidt | dsilva: Look forward the saner GUI from OM-2007.2. Images will eb available the next days. |
| 18:21.34 | dsilva | oh cool |
| 18:21.56 | stefan_schmidt | dsilva: I have it in front of me. Nice big buttons for finger usage. :) |
| 18:21.57 | Elrond | dsilva - They finally found out about the missing stylus holder. ;o) |
| 18:21.58 | gamin | Elrond: any screenshots? |
| 18:21.59 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Trademark_Policy]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bogota]] [[User:Nelsoneci]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Location_based_reminders]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[Nelsoneci]] [[UI_Improvements]] |
| 18:22.17 | Elrond | gamin - I did not have my digicam at the meeting. :-| |
| 18:22.18 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: heh, what's a stylus? ;) |
| 18:22.25 | gamin | so the iphone has some effect on the moko ui... |
| 18:22.38 | stefan_schmidt | gamin: Not really. Not even seen the GUI |
| 18:22.45 | dsilva | like javafx? http://psynixis.fileburst.com/blog/JavaFXMobilevsiPhone.jpg |
| 18:22.47 | Elrond | Oh. |
| 18:23.00 | Elrond | They applied brain washing to stefan... Interesting... ;o) |
| 18:23.10 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:23.23 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: ....brain....washed....huh....? |
| 18:23.36 | guaqua | stefan.brain.wash(iphone.propaganda.fetch()) |
| 18:23.42 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 18:23.51 | stefan_schmidt | dsilva: Let you surprise |
| 18:23.59 | dsilva | :) |
| 18:24.04 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - stylus.... it's that thing you also sent to me... and as you don't know any more about styli... they have brain washed you. ;o) |
| 18:24.14 | stefan_schmidt | guaqua: No chance :) |
| 18:24.22 | zecke | brb |
| 18:24.30 | gamin | stefan_schmidt: so probably in the next four weeks there will be another 1000 phones? |
| 18:24.51 | Elrond | 4 weeks times 2 pi. ;o) |
| 18:25.11 | gamin | xmas? eeek! |
| 18:25.13 | Elrond | (in our work group, all times get multiplied implicititly and explicitly by 2pi. ;o) ) |
| 18:25.26 | stefan_schmidt | gamin: Not sure about the exact date and number but it should match round about |
| 18:25.44 | BryceLeo|Work | +http://psynixis.fileburst.com/blog/JavaFXMobilevsiPhone.jpg |
| 18:25.48 | Elrond | <-- is making fun today. ;-) |
| 18:25.49 | BryceLeo|Work | +http://psynixis.fileburst.com/blog/JavaFXMobilevsiPhone.jpg |
| 18:25.54 | BryceLeo|Work | whoops |
| 18:25.56 | BryceLeo|Work | damn putty |
| 18:26.09 | *** join/#openmoko wvdschel (n=wvdschel@d51A467A6.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:26.15 | stefan_schmidt | <- me too |
| 18:26.23 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:26.47 | stefan_schmidt | Time for two simpson episodes and working hard on OM afterwards. later |
| 18:27.05 | BryceLeo|Work | c ya stefan keep up the killer work! |
| 18:27.30 | stefan_schmidt | BryceLeo|Work: Do you have a pony btw? ;) |
| 18:27.49 | BryceLeo|Work | lol actually yes an off the track standardbred |
| 18:28.02 | BryceLeo|Work | not a pony actually, but a full grown horse |
| 18:28.09 | BryceLeo|Work | :P |
| 18:28.15 | Elrond | Huh. Fun. |
| 18:28.30 | Elrond | BryceLeo|Work - Keep it secure from stefan. He does mad things to ponies. ;o)) |
| 18:29.08 | don-o | BryceLeo|Work: funny photo. |
| 18:30.32 | BryceLeo|Work | i was just copying and pasting the link from another message |
| 18:31.02 | BryceLeo|Work | Elrond, i'll be sure do to that! |
| 18:32.26 | *** join/#openmoko rschuster (n=rob@nomachine.tarent.de) |
| 18:33.35 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:34.33 | *** join/#openmoko ashnazg (n=ashnazg@38-99-98-18.v101.sjc.neovanglist.net) |
| 18:36.52 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 18:38.14 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: ping |
| 18:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ACE39.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:41.49 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 18:41.54 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 18:43.41 | hhf423 | awww, second batch ships mid august |
| 18:43.43 | hhf423 | the pain |
| 18:43.58 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 18:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z67e6.z.pppool.de) |
| 18:53.53 | hozer | is there a note on the list? |
| 18:54.16 | hozer | hhf423: ships, as in ships from CA, or ships from the factory? |
| 18:55.16 | *** join/#openmoko Majorie (n=Majorie@p508CE8C4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:55.36 | hhf423 | probably from US |
| 18:55.37 | hhf423 | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008603.html |
| 18:55.51 | rschuster | will openmoko stay with gtk 2.6 for OM-2007.2? |
| 18:57.58 | Elrond | Hum... Sending firefox via X11 to the Neo is... well... strange. |
| 18:58.15 | mmp | Elrond: via bluetooth net? :) |
| 18:58.16 | BryceLeo|Work | rschuster probably now, now that there's hw graphics accelleration it would make sense to go to 2.10 and use cairo |
| 18:58.28 | Elrond | mmp - No, via usbnet. |
| 18:59.21 | *** join/#openmoko simju71 (n=Simone@pD9E165BA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:59.55 | *** part/#openmoko simju71 (n=Simone@pD9E165BA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:02.46 | *** join/#openmoko jean` (n=jean@85-18-201-163.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:06.45 | Elrond | google maps is nearly useless at 640x480 (landscape neo). The "small map at the right bottom" takes takes half the space of the whole map. All the rest is cluttered up with those google crap. |
| 19:07.28 | Vegar | isn't there a google maps API or something? |
| 19:07.55 | Elrond | I think, there is. But I'm just using maps.google.com in firrefox. ;) |
| 19:08.54 | Writchie | Elrond: the map itself especially with overlays may be useful |
| 19:09.32 | Elrond | Writchie - Yep. But as no caching is allowed, you'd need to be online to use it. |
| 19:09.39 | Writchie | ture |
| 19:09.41 | Writchie | true |
| 19:09.45 | mmp | no caching? |
| 19:09.56 | Writchie | legally allowed that is |
| 19:10.12 | mmp | :-( I really don't want to see bill for GPRS traffic... |
| 19:10.31 | Writchie | that's for sure if do you not have unlimited plan |
| 19:10.47 | mmp | Nice idea, but not for student. :) |
| 19:10.57 | Writchie | $20 /month |
| 19:11.01 | Writchie | on top of voice |
| 19:11.21 | woglinde | gprs/utms flatrate is here sold for 24 euros |
| 19:11.25 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-132-034.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:11.28 | woglinde | but voip is forbidden |
| 19:11.37 | Writchie | voip won't work over gprs |
| 19:11.37 | mmp | Writchie: for a man who monthly calls less than 10 minutes? :) |
| 19:11.58 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 19:11.58 | woglinde | writchie hm |
| 19:12.04 | Vegar | GPRS flatrate is not an option here |
| 19:12.20 | mmp | VoIP forbidden? I thought these things were resolved long time ago... . |
| 19:12.42 | woglinde | its only a packete contract |
| 19:12.48 | woglinde | without phonecalls |
| 19:12.52 | woglinde | packet |
| 19:13.01 | mmp | (at least here there was decision that VoIP is transfer of data) |
| 19:15.11 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@001-716-498.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:17.43 | ashnazg | was the first 500 that went out based on the first 500 orders received, or the first 500 destinations that could be shipped to? |
| 19:19.05 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178219223.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:19.06 | mickey|sports | rschuster: no. we are going 2.10. |
| 19:19.46 | woglinde | re mickeyl |
| 19:20.13 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5536B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:23.25 | *** join/#openmoko BasiC (n=ish@p4FC4CA3A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:24.41 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@AC8F7DF2.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:25.11 | woglinde | *g* |
| 19:25.40 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 19:28.20 | *** join/#openmoko ZerothCloned (n=tyler@S010600195bd5cfe1.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 19:28.42 | ZerothCloned | hello all |
| 19:29.21 | ZerothCloned | anyone have issues with make run-qemu not showing the images of the buttons? |
| 19:32.19 | stefan_schmidt | rschuster: #662 is from you? All the endieness changes you need are in openocd from rev178, right? OE.dev uses 184 so that should be fine after the switch. |
| 19:32.53 | stefan_schmidt | rschuster: If you like to to some testing and be prepared for the switch you can have a look at: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/GettingStarted |
| 19:33.04 | stefan_schmidt | s/to to/to do/ |
| 19:34.29 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 19:34.37 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 19:34.43 | BryceLeo|Work | zerothcloned there are buttons? |
| 19:35.27 | kristian-m | btw is anyone already using the german provider "base" with gprs on gta01? |
| 19:35.42 | BryceLeo|Work | zeroth, that just happend to me last night, i'm assuming it's getting redone and will be re-committed soon |
| 19:35.57 | ZerothCloned | ah, okay, was just askin' |
| 19:36.09 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-212-163.netcologne.de) |
| 19:36.42 | BryceLeo|Work | yeah, i'm not at home right now so i can't re-update and pull |
| 19:37.24 | BryceLeo|Work | anyway i must be off, time to head out, see SWMNBN (she who must not be named) and get working |
| 19:37.26 | BryceLeo|Work | bye all |
| 19:38.30 | Elrond | pH5 - BTW: NooN missed you the last days. ;-) |
| 19:38.43 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@200.157.204.9) |
| 19:39.13 | *** join/#openmoko waldo323 (n=waldo323@h69-129-95-226.69-129.unk.tds.net) |
| 19:39.25 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 19:39.32 | *** part/#openmoko waldo323 (n=waldo323@h69-129-95-226.69-129.unk.tds.net) |
| 19:39.38 | *** join/#openmoko waldo323 (n=waldo323@h69-129-95-226.69-129.unk.tds.net) |
| 19:39.56 | ZerothCloned | hey cesarb. How're you? |
| 19:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
| 19:46.44 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: search for the firefox extension 'fullmap' |
| 19:47.41 | *** join/#openmoko moko-bunny (n=reik@a054242.dsl.fsr.net) |
| 19:48.29 | SpeedEvil | Also - there is on the middle of the left bar a little thing you can click to make the left bar go away |
| 19:49.57 | SpeedEvil | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4026 |
| 19:50.40 | Writchie | US FCC votes new 700 MHz to permit open access, i.e. choice of equipments, on new spectrum. |
| 19:51.17 | Writchie | waiting for text of order for more complete analysis. |
| 19:51.18 | *** join/#openmoko Zennor (n=Zennor@p57B98FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:51.39 | Zennor | zecke? |
| 19:53.00 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 19:54.11 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: 260 ma (from 5V USB) backlight on |
| 19:54.16 | zecke | yes? |
| 19:54.21 | Writchie | 190 ma backlight off |
| 19:54.32 | Writchie | 350ma bl on playing mp3 |
| 19:55.00 | Zennor | can you have a look on 671 again, the autobuilder filed again this bug |
| 19:55.07 | Writchie | 280ma mp3 backlight off |
| 19:55.23 | Writchie | I will update the wiki |
| 19:55.36 | stefan_schmidt | Zennor: Because it tried the old SRCDATE again |
| 19:55.53 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: The autobuilder builds from scratch each night, right? |
| 19:55.56 | mjr | hm, I'm getting I/O errors when I copy stuff over to the microsd by scp |
| 19:55.59 | Writchie | mp3 is of course sensitive to level of the material. |
| 19:56.20 | stefan_schmidt | Zennor: You have the problem on your local build? |
| 19:56.30 | mjr | trying a slowed down transfer... anyone else having i/o errors with heavy microsd load? |
| 19:56.43 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 19:56.47 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: yes |
| 19:56.54 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: Hmm |
| 19:57.21 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: That means it should shout up tomorrow |
| 19:57.26 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: what's the difference between 'idle' and md5sum /dev/zero |
| 19:57.35 | Writchie | best mp3 mode probably BT to BT stereo headset |
| 19:57.38 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: or something that uses 100% CPU |
| 19:57.39 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: well, the nightly build builds nighthly :) |
| 19:57.45 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: the incremental does not |
| 19:57.49 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 19:57.50 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 19:58.05 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: I suspect actually headphones may be 'cheapest'. |
| 19:58.05 | Writchie | no md5 sum - using scp transfer of file not much affect, about 10ma |
| 19:58.15 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: ah, two different builds not one with two modes |
| 19:58.19 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: anything that uses 100% CPU |
| 19:58.43 | Writchie | its both the CPU and the SDRAM bandwidth. |
| 19:58.58 | Writchie | need something to test both at same time. |
| 19:59.04 | ZerothCloned | Does anyone know if the wifi in gta02 will be able to do more than unencrypted connections? |
| 19:59.11 | rschuster | stefan_schmidt: hi. yes #662 is from me |
| 19:59.12 | Writchie | max out the SDRAM and the CPU without caching |
| 19:59.35 | *** join/#openmoko Zennor2 (n=Zennor@p57B9990D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:59.45 | Writchie | but this is worst case, scp and mp3 are pretty RW |
| 20:00.27 | Writchie | will try gsm radio next |
| 20:00.47 | Writchie | may need a better DVM |
| 20:01.02 | stefan_schmidt | rschuster: And 184 should be fine for your ARCH? |
| 20:01.55 | rschuster | stefan_schmidt: yep. the fix was committed for 178 |
| 20:02.30 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: plus - for maps - the virtual screen is what you want prolly |
| 20:02.41 | Writchie | mp3 to speaker battery life 3 hours |
| 20:02.51 | Zennor2 | stefan_schmidt: hmm doesn't work with src-date set to now... did I have to remove some old files? |
| 20:02.51 | stefan_schmidt | rschuster: ok, so it should be fine once we drop the overlay. If you like you can already test |
| 20:02.56 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: you really want both - internal C |
| 20:03.04 | SpeedEvil | PU - and max bandwidth |
| 20:03.09 | SpeedEvil | seperately |
| 20:03.30 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: is that with backscreen off? |
| 20:03.34 | Writchie | yes |
| 20:03.36 | stefan_schmidt | Zennor: Why would you like set it to now? Last svn rev have set it to 20070626. That should fix it for now. |
| 20:03.38 | SpeedEvil | Ow. |
| 20:03.40 | ynezz | pretty low :) |
| 20:03.58 | Writchie | i've got USB running for the link. |
| 20:04.14 | Writchie | RW you would shut this off |
| 20:04.14 | SpeedEvil | USB device is claimed to be really cheap. |
| 20:04.21 | Zennor2 | stefan_schmidt: ok was set to 20070622 before, so that should the solution |
| 20:04.39 | SpeedEvil | what does 'top' show - there aren't any background stuff using lots of CPU? |
| 20:04.44 | Writchie | 48mhz clock - i'll believe it when i see it. |
| 20:05.01 | stefan_schmidt | Zennor2: Yeah, was some ugly stuff with revs and dates after a svn dump merge |
| 20:05.09 | stefan_schmidt | Zennor2: Sorry for this. |
| 20:05.11 | SpeedEvil | believe what? |
| 20:05.19 | Writchie | lo power on usb device |
| 20:05.40 | Zennor2 | stefan_schmidt: no problem ;) was a bit confusing if you try to compile OM for the first time^^ |
| 20:05.44 | SpeedEvil | It claims to be some 10mW IIRC |
| 20:05.47 | Writchie | unless 50mw is lo power |
| 20:06.05 | rschuster | stefan_schmidt: dropping the overlay means openmoko does all build-related changes in OE then? |
| 20:06.11 | stefan_schmidt | Zennor2: Jup, takes some time to understand the stuff. |
| 20:06.18 | stefan_schmidt | rschuster: exactly |
| 20:06.30 | Writchie | actually, device much better than host |
| 20:06.38 | SpeedEvil | not much. |
| 20:06.48 | SpeedEvil | in terms of the global power budget |
| 20:08.30 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - "virtual screen"? |
| 20:08.58 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: the hardware supports virtual screen larger than visual |
| 20:09.32 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: also - the fullmap extension - if you put it fullscreen in FF, with no toolbars, you get about 630*430 map |
| 20:10.24 | Elrond | mjr - I get IO errors when doing heavy IO on the internal flash. See bug... *searching* ... #567 |
| 20:10.51 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh. Yeah I removed all toolbars already. :-) |
| 20:11.09 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-27-229.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:11.13 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, it was only a quick test. I wanted to see, how useable plain ff would be on the neo. |
| 20:11.29 | SpeedEvil | have you actually compiled it? |
| 20:11.39 | SpeedEvil | Extensions needed - IMO |
| 20:11.41 | Elrond | No. Just ran it remotely. |
| 20:11.54 | SpeedEvil | Menux |
| 20:12.05 | mjr | Elrond, seeing |
| 20:12.13 | Elrond | I still didn't get round to let my box compile xorg. ;o) |
| 20:12.17 | SpeedEvil | collapse menu bar down to a single toolbar button. |
| 20:12.52 | *** join/#openmoko bradpitcher (i=bradpitc@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org) |
| 20:12.58 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: and easygestures |
| 20:13.10 | Elrond | :-) |
| 20:13.19 | Elrond | I'll try them maybe the next days. :) |
| 20:13.20 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: which lets you navigate back/forward/... without the toolbar |
| 20:13.38 | SpeedEvil | Also fullmap for google-maps |
| 20:13.56 | *** part/#openmoko waldo323 (n=waldo323@h69-129-95-226.69-129.unk.tds.net) |
| 20:14.28 | mjr | Elrond, will comment or file new bug after some more testing... |
| 20:15.47 | Elrond | mjr - Did slowing down help? |
| 20:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:16.44 | rschuster | someone put OpenMoko in pkgsrc (netbsd) -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU#NetBSD.2Fi386 :) |
| 20:16.51 | mjr | scp -l 500 still errored out on me, no errors so far with -l 100 |
| 20:16.56 | zecke | bbl |
| 20:18.04 | mjr | also it seems that I can magically nowadays umount my memory card, when earlier umount gave "Inappropriate ioctl for device" |
| 20:20.40 | Zennor2 | stefan_schmidt: hum doesn't work with 20070726 |
| 20:21.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Ashnazg]] [[Devirginator/it]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Wish_List]] [[User:Coredump]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[Unresolved_Hardware_Questions]] |
| 20:22.21 | stefan_schmidt | Zennor2: please remove all rssreader tarballs and the subfolder in sources/svn, bitbake -c clean openmoko-rssreader; bitbake openmoko-rssreader |
| 20:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko BasiC__ (n=ish@p4FC4ED64.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:25.55 | moko-bunny | yay! I got my neo, flashed it, and got a build to work :) now I have to go back to work :( |
| 20:26.31 | mmazur | Mine is still in the good ol' us of a. |
| 20:26.37 | BasiC__ | congrats moko-bunny |
| 20:27.23 | moko-bunny | thanks....tonight will be...can I do Bruce's Crash course :) |
| 20:27.51 | moko-bunny | I would have had it yesterday, but it "required signature over 21"...have to ping Sean about that |
| 20:28.06 | Elrond | Huh? What's that? |
| 20:28.11 | BasiC__ | but u got the dev version, uh moko-bunny ? |
| 20:28.36 | mmazur | moko-bunny, a +21 inch signature? Wow ;) |
| 20:28.41 | Elrond | moko-bunny - Where are you living? And what is the neo rated there, that you need something like that? |
| 20:28.49 | moko-bunny | yeah, got the adv version |
| 20:29.17 | moko-bunny | I have no idea...it's not a UPS thing, it said that right on the shipping label...normally UPS just drops off a package and doesn't even knock |
| 20:29.18 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 20:29.18 | mmazur | Probably internal policy by ups. |
| 20:29.27 | mmazur | Hmm. |
| 20:29.28 | mmazur | Weird. |
| 20:29.48 | guaqua | sounds like customs, but it shouldn't be so. the limit should be 18... |
| 20:30.18 | moko-bunny | I live in Pullman, WA....like I told the UPS guy...the only crime we have is when the UW Huskies come to town :D |
| 20:30.25 | moko-bunny | USA |
| 20:30.37 | mmazur | But what does customs have to do with electronic devices and age policies? |
| 20:30.41 | moko-bunny | (cross state rival football team) |
| 20:30.49 | mmazur | They figured it's a porn viewer or something? |
| 20:31.07 | moko-bunny | hahaha...maybe |
| 20:31.11 | Elrond | moko-bunny - Ahh, the country, where everybody carries a weapon, but you need to be over 21 to get a neo.. Yeah. ;o)) |
| 20:31.42 | mmazur | 8) |
| 20:31.47 | moko-bunny | this is redneck territory...or close...so yeah, everyone has a weapon....but phones are a national security issue :o |
| 20:32.02 | mmazur | Yup. Either a porn-viewer or a terrorist-device. |
| 20:32.10 | guaqua | sounds absurd |
| 20:32.20 | guaqua | the paranoia is unbelievable |
| 20:32.22 | mmazur | guaqua, you don't say :) |
| 20:32.34 | Elrond | guaqua - They love that over there. ;o) |
| 20:32.40 | moko-bunny | uhoh, what did I start....how about this awesome Neo :) |
| 20:32.50 | Elrond | guaqua - Well, my country starts to love it too. :-( |
| 20:33.06 | guaqua | the land of the free, and psychiatrists and lawyers |
| 20:33.14 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 20:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-60-149-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:33.34 | moko-bunny | well, you all have a fun day....gotta go back to some manufacturing emergency or someting |
| 20:33.54 | Elrond | moko-bunny - Have a little fun.. |
| 20:33.58 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (n=me@dD5763257.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:34.05 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host44-205-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:34.40 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 20:36.34 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 20:36.41 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:37.51 | SpeedEvil | moko-bunny: ASL? |
| 20:38.28 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Hint: *** Signoff: moko-bunny |
| 20:38.29 | dtx | Little late on that one |
| 20:38.33 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:38.33 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
| 20:38.34 | hozer | oh lord :P |
| 20:38.36 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
| 20:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko BasiC (n=ish@p4FC4CE22.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:39.47 | SpeedEvil | The one problem I see with stock FF is that it's not finger-friendly for picking URLs. |
| 20:39.55 | SpeedEvil | s/URL/link/ |
| 20:40.55 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - The main problem -- but also a very good thing, because it helps a little -- that I saw: those crappy "we put text as images" websites are completely unreadable at 300dpi. ;-) |
| 20:42.42 | SpeedEvil | That's gonna suck. |
| 20:43.33 | Elrond | Okay, delete "good" thing. Those people, who do such crap websites will never use a neo nor see their sites on the neo. |
| 20:44.46 | rschuster | Elrond: sounds like captchas are in trouble now ... |
| 20:45.22 | Elrond | "captchas"? |
| 20:45.39 | happycube | pictures designed to be read by humans |
| 20:45.46 | happycube | of course this only spurs developemnt of OCR ;) |
| 20:46.01 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 20:46.03 | ashnazg | rschuster: I'm seeing more and more image captchas being replaced my math ones... |
| 20:46.25 | Elrond | I hate those anyway. I can only bypass them by using the imagezoom plugin and displaying them at 400%. |
| 20:46.55 | ZerothCloned | Meh, I prefer image captches. like, "click on the elephant in the picture" |
| 20:47.03 | Elrond | Ahh, finally they get replaced by QM equations. ;o) |
| 20:47.16 | ashnazg | migration to math captchas should be good then... its text should shrink/grow along with the rest of the page's text. |
| 20:47.17 | ckuethe | and if you can answer it, you're a bot? |
| 20:47.43 | Elrond | ckuethe - Right. ;o) |
| 20:47.52 | Elrond | ... because humans would need an hour to solve it. ;o) |
| 20:48.09 | ZerothCloned | I think match captchas won't work. The average math skills of North Americans would be challenged, and then they'd be insulted |
| 20:48.42 | Elrond | ZerothCloned - Yeah. ;o) |
| 20:49.41 | ZerothCloned | I just mispelled Elrond to Elrong. Some Tolkien fan's gonna kill me in my sleep now. |
| 20:50.09 | Fatal | ZerothCloned: atleast you didn't say Eldong |
| 20:50.42 | ynezz | Elbunda, whatever |
| 20:52.43 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 20:53.14 | ZerothCloned | so, whats new and radical in the world of OM? |
| 20:53.27 | woglinde | nothing |
| 20:54.13 | Elrond | ZerothCloned - new UI on the way. ;o) |
| 20:56.15 | *** join/#openmoko xusia (n=gabriel@pool-71-113-157-193.frstil.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 20:58.35 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 20:59.13 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8506.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:59.38 | Psi_ | Elrond, new? |
| 20:59.41 | don-o | Elrond: for real? any screenshots up? or does that ;o) mean you're kidding |
| 21:00.05 | Psi_ | as in totally new looking? or just a rebuild using new versions of the amps and main menu system? |
| 21:00.06 | hrw | Elrond: on the way? |
| 21:00.21 | hrw | Elrond: my Neo has it for over two weeks :) |
| 21:00.23 | Psi_ | amps=apps |
| 21:01.04 | hrw | don-o: it will be announced probably soon |
| 21:01.20 | Psi_ | does it look quite different? |
| 21:01.38 | hrw | totally different |
| 21:01.42 | don-o | i hope its less 'windows start menu' and more 'iPhone' |
| 21:01.47 | Psi_ | heh |
| 21:01.50 | hrw | openmoko-today2 is more iphone |
| 21:02.03 | Psi_ | does that mean that all the apps will have to be redone too? |
| 21:02.07 | Elrond | don-o - It's for real. The smiley is more like "you could have seen it, if you were too close to some openmoko people" |
| 21:02.11 | Elrond | hrw - Huh? |
| 21:02.31 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07D41C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:03.06 | mave_pan | Hpoe the fonts can be adjusted, cos without glasses I can't read a thing ... |
| 21:03.13 | Psi_ | heh |
| 21:03.13 | xkr47 | :O |
| 21:03.30 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:03.36 | don-o | mave_pan: heh. they're super-crisp still because of all the DPI :) |
| 21:03.44 | ZerothCloned | what do you guys think about the onscreen keyboard with OM? |
| 21:03.53 | *** part/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.87) |
| 21:03.55 | hrw | Elrond: openmoko apps are written by OpenedHand. I work for OH. |
| 21:04.10 | xkr47 | \o/ for hrw :) |
| 21:04.13 | mjr | ZerothCloned, could use some layout tuning what with common punctuation with letters etc |
| 21:04.20 | Psi_ | ZerothCloned, is that really worth commenting on, since the new UI will probably have a new onscreen kbd? |
| 21:04.21 | don-o | did you-all see the video of the neo 'Flick-Scrolling' (ala iPhone) |
| 21:04.45 | woglinde | don-o hm? |
| 21:04.53 | don-o | woglinde: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/%7Ekoen/neo-scroll.avi |
| 21:05.36 | hrw | xkr47: ;D |
| 21:05.37 | Kosake | good night |
| 21:05.47 | Elrond | hrw - Ahh. |
| 21:05.51 | mave_pan | That sure looks good |
| 21:05.59 | xkr47 | nice scroll :) |
| 21:06.09 | happycube | indeed |
| 21:06.27 | ZerothCloned | very cool scroll |
| 21:07.31 | *** join/#openmoko edevestat (n=devestat@r02amsdm2.desktop.umr.edu) |
| 21:07.46 | hrw | it looks much better when there are two columns |
| 21:09.26 | ZerothCloned | when can we expect to see the new UI? |
| 21:11.04 | *** join/#openmoko dfoelber__ (n=dfoelber@beavis.aws.com) |
| 21:12.22 | Elrond | hrw - BTW: We're making slow progress with the gps chip. :-) |
| 21:13.11 | guaqua | ZerothCloned: probably soon... :) |
| 21:15.10 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 21:15.16 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54893511.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:15.46 | hrw | Elrond: nice |
| 21:15.50 | orospakr | whoa, someone with an Orange phone has received theirs already! |
| 21:16.14 | ynezz | good news |
| 21:16.22 | ynezz | hope i get mine tomorrow :) |
| 21:16.51 | ashnazg | hadn't seen an orange entry showing received... where? |
| 21:16.54 | Kero | ynezz: same here :) |
| 21:17.09 | don-o | creamsicle power! |
| 21:17.30 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 21:17.39 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: any chance of mailing/dccing the raw dump? |
| 21:18.37 | SpeedEvil | of the tool you're using that is - and any notes |
| 21:18.45 | SpeedEvil | Or is it not there yet. |
| 21:18.48 | ashnazg | ah, Belgium, rcvd 7/30 |
| 21:19.05 | SpeedEvil | Assuming all oranges are orange. |
| 21:19.16 | SpeedEvil | And they haven't mailed and said black isOK and forgotten. |
| 21:19.32 | ashnazg | SpeedEvil: true... |
| 21:19.50 | ashnazg | at the mercy of accuracy on the P1 Owners wiki |
| 21:21.05 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A57642.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:23.13 | Kero | mm, I have a scheduled arrival date now... Aug 3... 3 days for only 150 km from Koln to Eindhoven :( |
| 21:24.26 | Kero | for some reason, UPS thinks shipping/billing happened Jul 30, whereas yesterday they thought i happened Jul 27. |
| 21:25.03 | Kero | their tracking system s*cks. But i'll have the phone soon, either way :) |
| 21:25.12 | don-o | has someone got estimates on the P1 battery life? |
| 21:25.58 | SpeedEvil | don-o: Neo1973 GTA01 Power Managment |
| 21:26.06 | SpeedEvil | is about as good as it gets. |
| 21:26.15 | SpeedEvil | Basically - 3-4 hours playing MP3 |
| 21:26.21 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:26.52 | orospakr | ashnazg: on the P1 owners wiki page. |
| 21:27.02 | SpeedEvil | 1/5 of the pretty much required power managment options are there at the moment. |
| 21:27.27 | ashnazg | orospakr: that's me... what's the question? |
| 21:27.28 | thomasg | SpeedEvil, did you test standby, too? |
| 21:27.35 | *** join/#openmoko aking_ (n=zilt@207.210.78.49) |
| 21:27.36 | don-o | SpeedEvil: wow. there is a lot of detail. im just looking for an estimate between recharges if its sitting in my pocket, idleing the whole time. |
| 21:27.46 | SpeedEvil | don-o: it depends. |
| 21:27.59 | don-o | SpeedEvil: how did i know you were going to say that :) |
| 21:28.02 | SpeedEvil | don-o: if everything works - the CPU is off in that mode if you're not listening to bluetooth. |
| 21:28.17 | SpeedEvil | Should be some 5-6 days. |
| 21:28.30 | thomasg | the best thing in the neo package is the geek-stylus ^^ |
| 21:28.33 | SpeedEvil | Maybe more - in that mode pretty much the only thing on is the GSM modem. |
| 21:28.47 | don-o | SpeedEvil: coolio. id want the bluetooth radio on as well. |
| 21:28.58 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately. |
| 21:29.21 | mjr | yeeah you don't want to listen to bluetooth all the time on GTA01 and 02 |
| 21:29.22 | SpeedEvil | As the core hardware team diddn't use bluetooth. |
| 21:29.35 | SpeedEvil | They diddn't know that it might be an interesting use-case. |
| 21:29.46 | SpeedEvil | So they diddn't add the required wakeup line. |
| 21:29.54 | SpeedEvil | So the CPU has to be on all the time to do that. |
| 21:30.08 | SpeedEvil | For a battery life of some 2 days ish. |
| 21:30.22 | hads | Bummer |
| 21:30.38 | don-o | well heck my current phone gets only 2 days. im happy with anything longer than 20 hours. |
| 21:31.43 | *** join/#openmoko TobiX (i=tobias@zoidberg.org) |
| 21:32.15 | SpeedEvil | This is if all works as expected. |
| 21:32.36 | SpeedEvil | One problem is that preliminary power measurements seem to be higher than expected. |
| 21:33.08 | SpeedEvil | It needs much more detailed measurement to nail down where this power is going. |
| 21:33.14 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 21:33.18 | SpeedEvil | And if it can be turned off, or if there are more hardware bugs. |
| 21:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@88.134.98.160) |
| 21:34.01 | hrw | bye |
| 21:34.07 | SpeedEvil | I am _not_ saying I think there are hardware bugs - just that if these modes haven't been tested... |
| 21:34.14 | zecke | cya |
| 21:35.44 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A08C90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:36.18 | *** part/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@n128-227-127-2.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 21:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 21:40.59 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 21:41.39 | freelock | Anybody have GPRS working? |
| 21:41.56 | mjr | haven't tried that |
| 21:42.00 | freelock | I've been able to successfully connect, but can't ping the remote end, or get any traffic through... |
| 21:42.18 | freelock | ... using the wiki page for manual gprs |
| 21:42.19 | mjr | maybe put it on tomorrow's todo |
| 21:43.17 | mmazur | freelock, well, if the device driver is ok, there shouldn't be much of the problem. The rest of the ppp stack is quite standard. |
| 21:43.26 | mmazur | *a problem |
| 21:43.31 | *** join/#openmoko guest__ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 21:44.27 | freelock | I've never used GPRS before. But the connect script ran, gave me a ppp ip address, etc. |
| 21:44.40 | freelock | Seems like there's something getting in the way of traffic, however. |
| 21:45.16 | orospakr | ashnazg: you actually have an orange phone? sweet! |
| 21:45.30 | ashnazg | orospakr: no, no, don't have mine yet... |
| 21:45.50 | orospakr | oh, I thought you were the guy who received his orange phone. my bad. |
| 21:46.16 | ashnazg | orospakr: I found someone on the P1 Owners page that shows they received their orange phone... in Belgium |
| 21:46.28 | orospakr | ashnazg: yeah, that's the one |
| 21:46.58 | ashnazg | orospakr: when I said "that's me" earlier, I meant "ashnazg" on the P1 page is me |
| 21:47.36 | ashnazg | orospakr: there's a couple of Orange buyers on there that show "billed", at least... wish I was one of 'em |
| 21:47.58 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03root * r2589 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds/: artwork/sounds: copy into OM-2007.2 |
| 21:48.19 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03root * r2590 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/icons/: artwork/icons: copy into OM-2007.2 |
| 21:49.23 | Elrond | "root"?! |
| 21:50.11 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Huh, yeah, I'll create you a dump. |
| 21:50.24 | mickeyl | urghs |
| 21:50.30 | mwester | secure system, there... |
| 21:50.36 | mickeyl | cough |
| 21:50.41 | mickeyl | seems someone has root access |
| 21:50.43 | Stephmw | Elrond: ewww, you're gonna take a dump for SpeedEvil? |
| 21:51.12 | Elrond | Stephmw - Hmm? |
| 21:51.14 | Stephmw | mickeyl: or someone's got a root window around when they should be using sudo? |
| 21:51.58 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: Question on Moko X server |
| 21:53.08 | Elrond | Stephmw - I'll send him my dump. ;o) |
| 21:53.24 | mickeyl | can svn change the author name afterwards ? |
| 21:53.48 | Elrond | mickeyl - Huh, probably the same way one can change the log message. |
| 21:54.13 | Elrond | mickeyl - changing log message is a FAQ for s*version. |
| 21:55.02 | zecke | mickeyl: can yes, but you might not want that :) |
| 21:55.10 | mickeyl | zecke: why not? |
| 21:55.31 | mwester | that's kinda fixing the symptom, not the problem, no? |
| 21:55.45 | mickeyl | the problem is i forgot to su |
| 21:55.53 | mickeyl | i can remove the stuff and copy again |
| 21:55.56 | mickeyl | or change the author |
| 21:56.00 | mickeyl | that's all :) |
| 21:56.21 | Elrond | mwester - Well, one might want to fix the symptom first, then the problem. :) |
| 21:57.07 | Elrond | mickeyl - root instead of www-data? Either is very useful. ;o) |
| 21:57.15 | mwester | I'm not sure it matters what's in the log, as long as you know what was done as root then there's no security issue AFAIK (just the concern about what happens when you build as root). |
| 21:57.16 | Elrond | mickeyl - Why don't you use https? |
| 21:57.36 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@gwfm4-3-0-240.802.cz) |
| 21:57.45 | Elrond | mwester - Well, it's more a matter of "having the logs nice" ;-) |
| 21:57.46 | mickeyl | because it's a tad bit more efficient to do moves directly on the server |
| 21:57.57 | *** part/#openmoko ashnazg (n=ashnazg@38-99-98-18.v101.sjc.neovanglist.net) |
| 21:58.15 | Elrond | mickeyl - One can do svn move https://.... https://.... I think it's as efficient as locally. |
| 21:58.59 | mwester | Elrond: agreed, and making the logs "nice" is good, once one establishes that there wasn't anything broken by root (building with OE as root can sometimes put funny stuff in system directories). |
| 21:59.24 | Elrond | *G* |
| 22:00.13 | mickeyl | well, we don't build on our svn server anyways |
| 22:04.51 | *** part/#openmoko dfoelber__ (n=dfoelber@beavis.aws.com) |
| 22:06.09 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07E6CE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:06.43 | *** part/#openmoko likesN30_ (n=me@dD5763257.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:08.50 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 22:18.34 | *** part/#openmoko Majorie (n=Majorie@p508CE8C4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko Taco (n=rtm@pool-68-160-43-253.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:22.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Netherlands]] [[User:THe_IkkE]] [[P1_Owners]] [[USB_Networking]] [[Wish_List]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bogota]] |
| 22:27.15 | Arachnid | Excellent, my openmoko is on its way again :) |
| 22:27.20 | Arachnid | Here's hoping it doesn't get held up in customs |
| 22:28.46 | woglinde | hi coredump |
| 22:28.50 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:30.04 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 22:30.16 | CoreDump|home | I see that Writchie|away: beat me to it in regards of power usage measurements |
| 22:30.29 | SpeedEvil | CoreDump|home: more is better |
| 22:30.35 | SpeedEvil | More measurements that is. |
| 22:30.36 | CoreDump|home | indeed |
| 22:30.46 | CoreDump|home | I found a bug w/ auto-fast btw |
| 22:31.03 | CoreDump|home | it's ignored completely :) |
| 22:32.00 | *** join/#openmoko BlueRaid (i=BlueRaid@p548066C5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:32.20 | *** join/#openmoko b1303s (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-04a2fa493000c4d0) |
| 22:32.20 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 22:34.14 | Arachnid | Has anyone got updating the phone working from windows, or does it still require a linux desktop box? |
| 22:34.28 | Arachnid | (All my servers are linux; my desktop is windows, and my laptop is mac :/) |
| 22:35.03 | Stephmw | Arachnid: now's a good time to switch |
| 22:35.23 | Stephmw | Arachnid: seriously though, you could go the vmware way and host a ubuntu install there |
| 22:35.46 | Taco | I tried exactly that. It didn't work (VMWare). |
| 22:35.55 | Arachnid | I was about to say |
| 22:36.04 | Arachnid | I saw someone mentioned it didn't work too well |
| 22:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko dTx (n=user@adsl-69-149-186-230.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net) |
| 22:36.08 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 22:36.11 | Arachnid | Anyone tried it from a mac? |
| 22:36.42 | Arachnid | Or maybe I should see if I can write what's required to do it from windows - it's going to be needed eventually, logically. |
| 22:36.43 | weez | hey guys, I got my openmoko, YAY! |
| 22:36.50 | Arachnid | weez: grats. :) |
| 22:37.02 | weez | its a nice form factor |
| 22:37.04 | Arachnid | Mine was held up in the US for a 'security check' all weekend, or I'd have it by now. :/ |
| 22:37.07 | woglinde | weez gratz |
| 22:37.20 | woglinde | security check? |
| 22:37.21 | woglinde | lol |
| 22:37.27 | weez | Why the long face, speedevil? |
| 22:37.30 | stefan_schmidt | Arachnid: Some testing with windows would be nice |
| 22:37.48 | SpeedEvil | Because mine is not here. |
| 22:37.51 | weez | ah |
| 22:37.59 | weez | not in the USA? |
| 22:38.02 | stefan_schmidt | Arachnid: Search the wiki. There should be some introductions, but I fear no real solution |
| 22:38.09 | Arachnid | *nods* |
| 22:38.21 | Arachnid | Theoretically it should work in OSX, since it's BSD based... right? |
| 22:38.23 | stefan_schmidt | Arachnid: Feel free to test and report what works and what not |
| 22:38.24 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (i=Mac@p57A29ED8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:38.24 | weez | so i read this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1 |
| 22:38.39 | weez | but I see no mention of backing up the GPS software |
| 22:38.43 | Stephmw | Arachnid: after the 'check', it may need counseling... US customs are known to love deep cavity searches |
| 22:38.44 | weez | do we even need to worry about that? |
| 22:38.51 | Arachnid | Stephmw: heheh |
| 22:38.53 | mjr | weez, it's not yet provided |
| 22:39.04 | BlueRaid | msg TRIsoft moin |
| 22:39.12 | weez | ok, cool |
| 22:39.18 | weez | so i can just flash away then |
| 22:39.26 | mjr | yeah go ahead |
| 22:39.38 | Taco | The GPS software was not included in the SH1 units." |
| 22:39.58 | woglinde | no rootfs |
| 22:39.58 | weez | ah |
| 22:40.01 | woglinde | no gps soft |
| 22:40.29 | Arachnid | Anyone know when we can get the GPS software, then? |
| 22:40.31 | weez | was it the developers who got preview versions who had to backup their units to preserve GPS then? |
| 22:40.41 | Arachnid | Kind of pointless having a GPS in it if we can't do anything with it |
| 22:40.43 | weez | i seem to recall reading that in the channel a couple of weeks ago |
| 22:40.53 | mjr | Sean recently said they're still working out the kinks with Global Locate that has been a bit jealous of its code, but that he'd expect to be able to provide gllin "soon" |
| 22:41.11 | Arachnid | ah |
| 22:41.14 | weez | would make sense since someone wrote a shell script to make the phone into a bluetooth GPS |
| 22:41.36 | mjr | weez, yeah, a version of gllin was on some early phones when shipped |
| 22:41.48 | Arachnid | It's not as if providing code - even source code - causes you to lose your rights over it |
| 22:41.53 | Arachnid | *shrugs* |
| 22:42.00 | weez | so .... technically... its around... |
| 22:42.27 | mjr | weez, it's around, but apparently people aren't jumping up to illegally copy it |
| 22:42.37 | mjr | 'cause I've asked for it ;) |
| 22:42.38 | weez | thats good then |
| 22:42.44 | weez | i hate illegal copiers |
| 22:42.50 | weez | :) |
| 22:43.00 | mjr | what did I ever do to you? |
| 22:43.01 | cjb | mjr: it's not on the p1 phones? |
| 22:43.09 | *** join/#openmoko rtm_ (n=rtm@pool-68-160-43-253.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:43.10 | Writchie | me too - found no gllin in my mailbox yet so I can't test power with gllin |
| 22:43.12 | mjr | cjb, not these ones leastways |
| 22:43.56 | *** join/#openmoko patho_ (i=BlueRaid@p54804DDC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:44.22 | mjr | well, as I said before, my e-mail is mjr@iki.fi, were one interested in sending me mail about not sharing the binary with me |
| 22:46.12 | Writchie | quaqua: ping |
| 22:46.17 | cjb | mjr: can you accept DCC? |
| 22:46.22 | cjb | (allegedly) |
| 22:46.54 | mjr | I probably could, were there some legal use for it |
| 22:47.13 | cjb | hey, I know a great cupcake recipe |
| 22:47.16 | cjb | want me to DCC it? |
| 22:47.34 | mjr | if you have permission from the chef |
| 22:48.29 | mjr | Thanks. It's small. |
| 22:48.52 | Arachnid | Did you expect a cupcake recipe to be big? |
| 22:49.23 | mwester | If it's French, yes. |
| 22:49.34 | mjr | actually, tar complains that it didn't get the whole thing |
| 22:49.36 | mjr | just 3k |
| 22:49.41 | cjb | ah |
| 22:49.46 | cjb | it is indeed bigger. hmph. |
| 22:50.41 | mjr | try again for fluke's sake? |
| 22:51.10 | bradpitcher | is pavel here? |
| 22:51.35 | cjb | not right now. |
| 22:51.42 | mjr | Now I have it. The recipe seems vegan, that's jolly. |
| 22:52.13 | Elrond | mjr - Any progress on your IO errors? |
| 22:53.12 | mjr | still no i/o errors with scp -l 100 |
| 22:53.33 | mwester | ~seen paval |
| 22:53.57 | apt | i haven't seen 'paval', mwester |
| 22:53.57 | mwester | oops |
| 22:53.57 | weez | i assume I need to charge the battery before flashing? |
| 22:53.57 | mwester | ~seen pavel |
| 22:53.58 | apt | pavel <~pavel@c-67-170-103-101.client.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 1045d 1h 4m 45s ago, saying: 'OK, now I feel stupid.'. |
| 22:53.58 | woglinde | pavelm? |
| 22:53.58 | weez | since usb does not provide sufficient power? |
| 22:54.00 | mjr | however, the USB link has been severed a couple of times... |
| 22:54.06 | mwester | There's the bot. |
| 22:54.09 | mjr | I'm not sure why |
| 22:54.18 | Elrond | weez - *I* would recommending to charge the battery, yes. |
| 22:54.21 | bradpitcher | oh haha |
| 22:54.31 | weez | shouldnt someone put that on the SH1 page? |
| 22:54.37 | weez | i will go do that right now. |
| 22:55.02 | woglinde | hm it stands on the battery |
| 22:55.17 | woglinde | before first use charge it full |
| 22:55.19 | bradpitcher | has anyone used pavel's tui app? |
| 22:55.33 | woglinde | bradpitcher I didnt |
| 22:56.24 | bradpitcher | I tried to make it and it tried to use a scratchbox compiler |
| 22:56.26 | Elrond | It'll probably work, as USb in full power mode gives enough for the neo to live _and_ charge the battery. But still, it's better to have a charged battery (especially when upgrading u-boot. Which of course is only advisable, if you REALLY know, what you're doing) |
| 22:56.41 | bradpitcher | I wonder if I can just make a symlink to the openembedded compiler? |
| 22:56.58 | mjr | I didn't have the patience to charge up before flashing |
| 22:57.19 | mjr | worked fine, and as long as you're not flashing u-boot should be safe, and I've the debug board anyway... |
| 22:57.41 | Elrond | mjr - As I said: It'll work out for usb full power being enough. But *I* would recommend charging before flashing. |
| 22:58.01 | Elrond | mjr - Yeah, right. |
| 22:58.22 | mjr | of course one can recommend things :] |
| 22:58.33 | weez | no debug board here :( |
| 22:58.41 | weez | hopefully i will never need that |
| 22:59.04 | Elrond | weez - Rule 1: Don't touch u-boot. Rule 2: Don't touch the u-boot env. Rule 3: Goto Rule 1. |
| 22:59.48 | mjr | again the usbnet link was severed |
| 22:59.58 | mickeyl | CoreDump|home: nice hack! |
| 23:00.05 | CoreDump|home | ;) |
| 23:00.05 | stefan_schmidt | CoreDump|home: Looks professional :) |
| 23:00.08 | mjr | USB disconnect, even |
| 23:00.08 | SpeedEvil | CoreDump|home: that's not a proper adaptor. |
| 23:00.13 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't have any duct tape. |
| 23:00.26 | CoreDump|home | mjr: sounds like your USB port is resetting due to the load |
| 23:00.33 | CoreDump|home | SpeedEvil: heh |
| 23:01.03 | mjr | CoreDump|home, hmh |
| 23:01.30 | CoreDump|home | I get that on my noetbook as well when charging Neo :( |
| 23:01.58 | mjr | let's see if that fares better |
| 23:02.08 | mjr | didn't happen for an hour or two there though |
| 23:02.10 | CoreDump|home | stefan_schmidt: thanks! Sometimes it helps to be EE =D |
| 23:02.41 | CoreDump|home | my crappy hub didn't help at all |
| 23:03.17 | weez | when i plug in the USB, it boots up and cannot complete because the rootfs is missing |
| 23:03.23 | weez | is it charging at that point? |
| 23:03.32 | CoreDump|home | weez: yes |
| 23:03.52 | weez | that seems like another point that should be in the wiki somewhere |
| 23:03.55 | CoreDump|home | in fact it is charging more that if you'd turn it off completely |
| 23:03.58 | Elrond | weez - Is the kernel booting? Or just u-boot complaining about no kernel? |
| 23:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:04.33 | weez | it shows the penguin and loads the kernel |
| 23:04.49 | weez | dies at the point where it try to switch to rootfs |
| 23:04.53 | mjr | no help from hub |
| 23:04.59 | weez | kernel panic |
| 23:05.03 | woglinde | nite |
| 23:05.07 | CoreDump|home | n8 woglinde |
| 23:05.15 | woglinde | weez I guess no rootfs |
| 23:05.23 | weez | yeha |
| 23:05.31 | weez | s/ha/ah/ |
| 23:05.45 | weez | according to the SH1 page |
| 23:05.48 | weez | that is the case |
| 23:05.56 | Writchie | i think they most ship with kernel but no rootfs |
| 23:05.56 | *** join/#openmoko dsilva (n=username@140.247.248.158) |
| 23:06.05 | Elrond | weez - I don't know how to stop u-boot effectively from trying to load a kernel.... u-boot can show you, how it charges... |
| 23:06.23 | Elrond | ... and one can turn off the display while it charges. |
| 23:06.40 | Elrond | weez - But anyway: If you already have a kernel on it: Go and put a rootfs on it via DFU. |
| 23:06.52 | weez | no worry about bricking then.. |
| 23:07.04 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2591 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 23:07.04 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-08-01 Holger Hans Peter Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 23:07.04 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Janitor work and continue the renaming to feedreader2. Change README to document |
| 23:07.04 | CIA-24 | openmoko: what is in my mind in regard to implementing the new UI guidelines. |
| 23:07.04 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * README: |
| 23:07.08 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * data/Makefile.am: |
| 23:07.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * data/openmoko-feedreader2.desktop: Added. |
| 23:07.12 | Writchie | with 50ma charge you can't DFU with a battery below certain level |
| 23:07.18 | weez | what is the wiki they are using? I wanted to go read about the how to do the markup |
| 23:07.21 | Elrond | weez - No, not for the rootfs. |
| 23:07.34 | weez | Elrond: ok, good to know |
| 23:07.34 | Elrond | weez - mediawiki. |
| 23:09.27 | mjr | though I am in a bad location to cook |
| 23:09.38 | *** join/#openmoko dando- (n=dando_@L0693.l.pppool.de) |
| 23:10.00 | Elrond | bf8ab4fda531bd00503a13ddfe2e2740 cupcake |
| 23:10.04 | dando- | . |
| 23:10.37 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - it can't. |
| 23:10.37 | CoreDump|home | recovering a flat battery on a P0 takes ages |
| 23:10.59 | rtm_ | Does the device charge at all when turned off? |
| 23:11.06 | CoreDump|home | I know :) Doesn't stop me from wishing otherwise tho =) |
| 23:11.06 | mjr | it does |
| 23:11.10 | Writchie | not ages just 20 hours |
| 23:11.25 | rtm_ | THanks, that's good to know. |
| 23:11.36 | Writchie | unless you have a debug board or other device that will source the 500ma |
| 23:11.42 | CoreDump|home | Writchie: once it can be turned on, it'll charge w/ 500mA so it'll be quicker |
| 23:11.50 | linux_galore | Just stick a 1,000uF cap across the battery terminals and remove the lithium battery, instant recharge state heh |
| 23:12.07 | Writchie | not just turned on - it has to negotiate the power |
| 23:12.09 | CoreDump|home | heh |
| 23:12.12 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - 2 hours at tuned off, then power on and let it charge at full power? |
| 23:12.20 | CoreDump|home | Writchie: u-boot does that |
| 23:12.38 | Elrond | u-boot and the kernel also. |
| 23:12.45 | linux_galore | have to leave the charger plugged in though |
| 23:12.50 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: more like 30m off, then fast-charge for an unknown amount of time =) |
| 23:13.15 | mickeyl | so you can confirm that 100mA rally works all the time? |
| 23:13.18 | mickeyl | really, even |
| 23:13.20 | CoreDump|home | no |
| 23:13.28 | CoreDump|home | it _never_ charges w/ 100mA |
| 23:13.28 | Writchie | uboot does not seem to be negotiating for full power in all cases |
| 23:13.42 | CoreDump|home | it will however, always charge w/ ~50mA |
| 23:13.49 | weez | ok |
| 23:13.53 | Writchie | 50ma is not enough to power the device for a DFU |
| 23:13.58 | weez | put all that in the FAQ on the SH1 page |
| 23:14.16 | Elrond | Writchie - when it gets to DFU, u-boot will hopefully have negotiated 500mA. |
| 23:14.25 | CoreDump|home | the only time when I have seen a 50mA charge was when the device is turned off |
| 23:14.28 | zecke | anyone here familiar with the gconf-bridge? |
| 23:14.37 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: it does, I tested that today |
| 23:14.39 | weez | not the specifics about the power, but the don't worry part. |
| 23:14.42 | Writchie | now that i'm rigged to monitor power i will try later with dead batteries to reproduce |
| 23:15.40 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Using your equipment, can you take a look at bug #95? |
| 23:15.48 | CoreDump|home | !ombug 95 |
| 23:15.50 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 95, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 23:15.51 | cdbot2 | * * <laforge>: verify charger current and battery temperature reading correctness |
| 23:15.52 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=95 |
| 23:16.15 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Excluding tmeperature, just the current. :-) |
| 23:17.08 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: when time permits. I will have a look |
| 23:17.09 | cesarb | mickeyl: just saw on the scrollback your subversion woes |
| 23:17.21 | cesarb | mickeyl: the user name is just a unversioned property, just change it |
| 23:17.38 | cesarb | mickeyl: the date too, if you want to fix the borked clock (if I read the scrollback correctly) |
| 23:17.42 | *** join/#openmoko disq (n=hede@66.249.26.2) |
| 23:17.42 | Elrond | cesarb - Like the commit message? |
| 23:17.46 | mjr | I'm gonna need to do something about that bluetooth networking, if this usbnet is gonna keep cutting off... |
| 23:18.02 | cesarb | Elrond: yep |
| 23:18.15 | cesarb | Elrond: from the svn book: "[...] the tree has also been given a property to store the username of the revision's author (svn:author) and a property to store the log message attached to that revision (svn:log)." |
| 23:18.27 | guaqua | has the GSoC guy who does the stuff with BT got anything ready? |
| 23:18.32 | Elrond | Okay, so I was right about "mostly the same as 'change commit message', which is a s*version FAQ". |
| 23:18.52 | mickeyl | cesarb: interesting. thanks |
| 23:19.04 | Elrond | mickeyl - I told you hours ago. ;o) |
| 23:19.07 | cesarb | Elrond: the same paragraph mentions svn:date, which is the other problem if I read the scrollback correctly |
| 23:19.45 | guaqua | now so...if there's battery temperature, we can calculate the ambient temperature from it aswell :) |
| 23:19.55 | cesarb | Even if it weren't an editable property, you could always simply do a svn dump, edit it (it's a specially-formatted text file) and import it again |
| 23:20.10 | Elrond | guaqua - We can only guess. ;-) |
| 23:20.39 | CoreDump|home | fwiw, I do have equipment to measure the temperature of the battery. I will however only do so w/o opening it up ;) |
| 23:20.43 | guaqua | Elrond: some fancy algorithms that determine if it's in the pocket or not - and and |
| 23:21.15 | Elrond | guaqua - hehe. :-) Ahh, for "not chargin", the temperature might even be useful... |
| 23:21.55 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Well, the temperature looks at least in the right domain. While current looks like off-by-factor-5. |
| 23:22.26 | CoreDump|home | we will see tomorrow ;= |
| 23:22.37 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Yeah, no panic. :-) |
| 23:24.56 | Elrond | I hope, we'll get a useable finger-useable picture viewer sometime. (instead of doing something for gps), I'm currently having nice pcitures on the display of the phone. It's really nice. :) |
| 23:25.38 | SpeedEvil | There are FF extensions to do photo-viewing :) |
| 23:25.57 | weez | Elrond: thanks for the tips. I put them to good use by documenting them in the wiki |
| 23:25.57 | mmazur | I'd go qemu->windows->irfanview ;) |
| 23:26.11 | rtm_ | Elrond: How are you displaying pictures? Just redirecting X, or is there an ap on the unit itself? |
| 23:26.29 | happycube | has anyone tried bl-6c yet? amazon us has authentic ones for cheap! |
| 23:26.55 | weez | so one thing that occurs to me.. |
| 23:27.00 | Elrond | rtm_ - running gimp on my desktop, clicking "View -> Move Window to -> neo:0" ;-) |
| 23:27.16 | weez | i dont know if others have already talked about this |
| 23:27.28 | rtm_ | Elrond: Good idea. |
| 23:27.49 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Ok - got it extracted OK - just need to write something trivial to do a least-squares fit |
| 23:28.07 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh, great. :-) |
| 23:28.30 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 23:28.34 | weez | I was thinking about making a USB drive that lets me plug my openmoko into an untrusted computer, use the larger display of the computer and the screen of openmoko for putting in passwords |
| 23:29.24 | BryceLeo | well that sure sounds interesting |
| 23:29.25 | weez | so I could look at my mail on an untrusted computer without having to worry about keyloggers, etc |
| 23:29.31 | CoreDump|home | s/openmoko/Neo1973 |
| 23:29.42 | weez | yes |
| 23:29.48 | BryceLeo | you're highly paranoid aren't ya weez |
| 23:29.52 | Elrond | weez - Hmm. Interesting idea. :-) |
| 23:29.52 | weez | you got it |
| 23:30.15 | weez | some kinda cygwin x distribution would do it |
| 23:30.15 | mmazur | Hmmmmmm. |
| 23:30.24 | mmazur | Booting from openmoko. |
| 23:30.48 | mmazur | With the usb cable, it can act as a storage device. And with the 2gig storage card, one can put a livecd onto it. |
| 23:30.48 | BryceLeo | i like that idea best so far |
| 23:30.52 | Elrond | mmazur - That idea is somewhere on the wiki. |
| 23:31.25 | weez | i guess therer is an idea page? |
| 23:31.32 | weez | i will put mine up there |
| 23:31.34 | mjr | yay, I'm browsing the intterweb |
| 23:32.11 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 23:32.18 | BryceLeo | mjr... good you've learned how to use a web browser! |
| 23:32.28 | mmazur | mjr, watch out for the tubes. |
| 23:32.31 | mmazur | And the truck. |
| 23:32.35 | BryceLeo | mrj soon we'll work you up to "checking email" |
| 23:32.52 | BryceLeo | mrj after that we'll teach you about AOL Chat Rooms and the fun people you can meet! |
| 23:33.16 | Elrond | mmazur - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:LiveUSB_distro |
| 23:33.18 | BryceLeo | lol sorry dude, what broswer are you using? gdk-webkit, minimo or dillo? |
| 23:33.21 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: where you from? |
| 23:34.06 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: New Zealand |
| 23:34.23 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: ah awesome.... what part and base or advanced |
| 23:34.28 | Arachnid | base |
| 23:34.32 | xzcvczx | damnit |
| 23:34.40 | xzcvczx | what part of nz |
| 23:34.45 | Arachnid | ah |
| 23:34.47 | Arachnid | Christchurch |
| 23:34.49 | mjr | BryceLeo, apparently "web" |
| 23:34.56 | Arachnid | you? |
| 23:34.59 | xzcvczx | auckland |
| 23:35.04 | BryceLeo | mrj interesting.... |
| 23:35.16 | xzcvczx | lol so thats 4 people in nz now |
| 23:35.18 | Arachnid | heh, both are probably on the same flight |
| 23:35.26 | Elrond | BryceLeo - It's this default thingy on the rootfs. I have no idea, on what it is based. |
| 23:35.31 | xzcvczx | 6:55am departure from hawaii? |
| 23:35.35 | Arachnid | yup |
| 23:35.40 | xzcvczx | sorry 6:55am in trasit to auckland |
| 23:35.45 | Arachnid | yeah |
| 23:35.55 | xzcvczx | yeah mine yours and psi's are on the same plane |
| 23:35.57 | BryceLeo | Elrond: i'll have to give it a look over |
| 23:36.12 | mmazur | I must say, the part with entering passwords from the neo, instead of from the pc is a good one. |
| 23:36.41 | BryceLeo | lol great so now there's two paranoid security nuts around :P |
| 23:37.11 | mjr | whoo |
| 23:37.30 | mmazur | I'm just saying -- would it be possible to actually get secure computing with it? |
| 23:37.46 | mjr | My Neo is watching me |
| 23:37.55 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: psi's has already got stuck in customs for 3days coming out of america |
| 23:37.58 | mmazur | Is it possible to perform cryptographically safe computing operations on a hostile machine? |
| 23:38.09 | mmazur | As in running an encrypted qemu for example? |
| 23:38.11 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: So did mine - well, a 'security check or other out of ups control' |
| 23:38.24 | Arachnid | But that doesn't mean NZ customs won't stop it for GST too |
| 23:38.27 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: oh that sucks.... mine went straight through |
| 23:38.58 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: i wouldnt mind if they did it would probably be quicker than waiting for the phone to be dropped off by courier |
| 23:39.09 | Arachnid | mmazur: no - at least, not ouside certain restricted (and rather esoteric) algorithms |
| 23:39.20 | Arachnid | mmazur: The plaintext still has to be visible to the machine soemwhere |
| 23:39.23 | Arachnid | er, somewhere |
| 23:39.37 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: So yours got shipped later and ended up on the same flight? :/ |
| 23:39.45 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: yup |
| 23:39.50 | Elrond | Good night people. |
| 23:39.55 | xzcvczx | mine didnt leave sunnyvale til the 30th |
| 23:39.56 | BryceLeo | night Elrond |
| 23:40.22 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: It won't make anything any faster - you have to pay GST, then the courier picks it up again and delivers it |
| 23:40.32 | Arachnid | I guess you might be able to go in and pay in person, being in auckland |
| 23:40.33 | mmazur | Arachnid, can't get it all :( |
| 23:40.45 | Arachnid | mmazur: huh? |
| 23:40.48 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: yeah thats my assumption |
| 23:40.57 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0806C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:41.13 | mmazur | Anyway -- I'm sure it'd be quite possible to figure out the most common 'unsafe machine' scenarios and circumvent them with ease. |
| 23:41.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2592 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): openmoko-panel-gsm: fix configure.ac to depend on libmokogsmd2 |
| 23:41.38 | xzcvczx | Arachnid: oh well these phones in nz will be about 1 in a million |
| 23:41.42 | mmazur | Arachnid, nothing :) |
| 23:41.44 | mjr | a remotely run firefox is surprisingly usable on the Neo |
| 23:42.54 | Arachnid | xzcvczx: heh, indeed |
| 23:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 23:43.15 | Arachnid | mmazur: Sure, but that's not much of a guarantee of security |
| 23:43.26 | mmazur | Wonder if it's possible for the neo to show itself as an ethernet device and a mass storage at the same time. |
| 23:43.32 | mmazur | Now that would simply *rock*. |
| 23:43.34 | Arachnid | "Possibly a little bit better than just naively using an untrusted machine" |
| 23:43.55 | mmazur | Arachnid, not 'a little bit'. |
| 23:44.09 | Arachnid | What exactly are you envisaging that will help? |
| 23:44.32 | mmazur | Arachnid, you're not exactly james bond, you can be reasonably certain, that if you take care of common virus/trojan scenarios, you're safe. |
| 23:45.25 | mmazur | Arachnid, some combination of a dedicated app (mass storage) making use of some form of safe communication with the neo (ethernet) when necessary. |
| 23:45.40 | mmazur | So eg. I can keep my firefox passwords on the neo, but not as a file. |
| 23:45.53 | mmazur | Ditto for other configuration options. |
| 23:46.02 | Arachnid | Without complete control over the computer, you can't rule out rootkits, for example |
| 23:46.22 | Arachnid | And it's not unreasonable to imagine that new trojans will install them, even if you're not a specific target |
| 23:46.44 | mmazur | Yes, but what rootkit would be smart enough to get through my rather unique protocol of neo<->firefox communication? |
| 23:46.53 | Arachnid | I think it's a lot of work for very little return - if you're really paranoid, get something like an eToken and store all your certificates on that. |
| 23:47.05 | Arachnid | That's security through obscurity, which is weak at best. |
| 23:47.14 | ajmitch | xzcvczx: I suspect there's more than 4 in NZ getting neos |
| 23:47.19 | mmazur | Not really. |
| 23:47.36 | mmazur | Security through obscurity is still security. |
| 23:47.40 | Arachnid | Besides, said trojan could just read your password out of the text field in the web browser, or (if it's not SSL), read it off the wire. |
| 23:47.50 | Arachnid | Sure, in the same way that rot13 is security |
| 23:47.52 | mmazur | Especially when you actually do some calculations about the risk. |
| 23:47.55 | xzcvczx | ajmitch: what makes your suspect that |
| 23:48.03 | Arachnid | It's more secure than nothing, but it's still only marginally secure |
| 23:48.26 | Arachnid | If you do said calculations, I think you'll find that the risk is small to start with, and your approach only lowers it slightly. |
| 23:48.27 | ajmitch | xzcvczx: because I know that there's a group order of 3 in the 2nd batch :) |
| 23:48.48 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Thanks to qmake guru mickey|zzZZzz webkit builds now again. +inherit qmake qt4x11 pkgconfig does the trick. He will push this with some more cleanup tomorrow. JFYI |
| 23:48.54 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:48.58 | hads | And likely others ordered too but just don't broadcast the fact. |
| 23:49.01 | xzcvczx | ajmitch: oh ok .... any of them advanced? |
| 23:49.07 | mmazur | Arachnid, you sure? Most computers *are* indeed infected with various crapware. |
| 23:49.21 | ajmitch | afaik there could be one advanced at least |
| 23:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-0e39e1146c747cf7) |
| 23:49.35 | Arachnid | mmazur: Yes, and how many of them are logging all your passwords, and why would they? |
| 23:49.35 | mmazur | Arachnid, not wanting to type my password on a public computer is not exactly paranoia imho. |
| 23:49.49 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: eek, qt4x11 will add a full qt build to the deps |
| 23:49.50 | ajmitch | hads: quite likely, I remember a couple of others who have ordered as well |
| 23:49.58 | Arachnid | And how many simply read the password out of text fields or over the wire? |
| 23:50.05 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: this ugly QMAKE_MOC is from qt4x11 without adding the whole qt4 as build dep |
| 23:50.07 | mmazur | Arachnid, I'm quite certain, that firefox's password mgr is a standard trojan target by now. |
| 23:50.18 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I know, I waited the whole time on it. |
| 23:50.19 | Arachnid | Like I said, if you're paranoid, get an eToken or something - far more (provable) security than this jerry-rigged system |
| 23:50.44 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: If you have a sane and fatser method discuss this with mickey|zzZZzz |
| 23:50.48 | Arachnid | mmazur: What does the password manager have to do with anything? IF you click 'remember my password' on a public computer, you deserve what you get... |
| 23:50.49 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: We found none. |
| 23:50.52 | xzcvczx | ajmitch: well it will be nice if someone in nz is getting advanced as then we can "hire" there debug board of them to fix the bootloader if we stuff it |
| 23:51.10 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: only setting QMAKE_MOC didn't work? it really should do :} |
| 23:51.24 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: It did not |
| 23:51.35 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway, I'm tired. Tomorrow |
| 23:51.37 | stefan_schmidt | Night all |
| 23:51.43 | CoreDump|home | n8 stefan_schmidt |
| 23:51.46 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: then copy everything but the qt4 dep :} |
| 23:51.52 | mmazur | Arachnid, the point of the excersice is for me to be able to use my remembered passwords on a public computer safely, by taking advantage of the fact, that a neo is a device and not just a pendrive. |
| 23:53.05 | Arachnid | And like I said, it's not particularly 'safe'. You're still entering plaintext passwords into a text field, and even trojans not built with this sort of evasion in mind may well intercept them anyway |
| 23:53.15 | Arachnid | Not to mention sending them plaintext across the wire more often than not |
| 23:53.16 | mmazur | Eh. |
| 23:53.20 | mmazur | Just stretch your imagination a bit. |
| 23:53.23 | mmazur | Neo is a device. |
| 23:53.42 | mmazur | Which means the passwords might never actually reside on the pc unencrypted. |
| 23:53.51 | mmazur | If for example the neo takes care of encryption. |
| 23:53.59 | mmazur | See where I'm getting at? |
| 23:54.05 | Arachnid | I was arguing that your scheme is weak, not that every possible scheme is weak |
| 23:54.12 | mmazur | Ok. |
| 23:54.27 | Arachnid | Though if you're logging into insecure sites with it, you're out of luck either way, since it goes across the wire unencrypted |
| 23:54.57 | mmazur | Yes, but since it'd need a hacked up firefox, it might just as well give me a big WTF should I try to do that. |
| 23:55.05 | disq | shouldn't the include dir for libmokoui2 be /usr/include/mokoui2 and not /usr/include/libmokoui2? |
| 23:55.28 | Arachnid | About the only way to do this practically is along the lines of what removable crypto keys do - store your private key in the device and get the device to compute signatures and do encryption for you |
| 23:55.38 | mmazur | Which still means I get a secure browser, even on a public display. |
| 23:55.40 | mmazur | Arachnid, yup. |
| 23:55.54 | Arachnid | Which is only going to work if the site you're logging into supports authentication with certificates instead of passwords |
| 23:55.56 | mmazur | Arachnid, + use the device for inputing passwords, should I need to do that manually. |
| 23:56.10 | mmazur | Arachnid, https should suffice. |
| 23:56.21 | Arachnid | (Note, Firefox natively supports using crypto tokens for logging into sites that support client certificates - no hackery required) |
| 23:56.22 | mmazur | or not... |
| 23:56.31 | Arachnid | mmazur: Only if the site supports client certificates. Most don't. |
| 23:57.08 | mmazur | If the untrusted pc sees my ssl session initialization, I'm done, right? :/ |
| 23:57.26 | Arachnid | If it only sees it, no |
| 23:57.37 | Arachnid | If it's one of the parties, yes |
| 23:58.06 | mmazur | neo<->UPC<->https://somesite |
| 23:58.35 | mmazur | In this scenario, with the upc seeing all traffic, encryption without certificates (like, say, my ssh keys), won't help, ay? |
| 23:58.49 | Arachnid | Your ssh keys are certificates |
| 23:58.54 | Arachnid | Well, to all intents and purposes, anyway |
| 23:59.12 | mmazur | Ok, but I'm talking https here. |
| 23:59.18 | mmazur | I know my ssh is safe under such a scenario. |
| 23:59.27 | Arachnid | If the untrusted computer sees the traffic but isn't the client, it's fine |
| 23:59.42 | Arachnid | Otherwise SSL would be totally useless, as any other computer between you and the server is in the same position to interfere. |
| 23:59.45 | mmazur | Assuming I already have my target sites cert on me? |
