| 00:00.36 | BryceLeo | roh: ok, i guess we're all inthat boat |
| 00:00.39 | rushforth | mellon: at least here in usa, cingular/att has far better 3g coverage (of course thats irrelevant to the neo, but if one already had service) |
| 00:00.40 | Taco | I'll be happy to switch to T-Mobile, if it is know AT&T SIMs don't currently work. I'd rather switch than wait for a possible fix. |
| 00:00.50 | roh | BryceLeo but the times that phones had 5V sims are long gone. no also a razr cannot provide 5V anymore |
| 00:00.56 | mellon | dunno, I use t-mobile, and haven't had issues with edge coverage. |
| 00:01.05 | *** join/#openmoko bradpitcher (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 00:01.18 | rushforth | edge != 3g |
| 00:01.23 | mellon | Is anybody else having intermittent problems where svn.openmoko.org doesn't resolve? |
| 00:01.23 | bradpitcher | is a password required to join the openmoko-devel room? I can't get in |
| 00:01.36 | bradpitcher | mellon: I'm not having problems |
| 00:01.37 | mellon | Oh, well, if you want something beyond EDGE, you're SOL with openmoko anyway. |
| 00:01.46 | rushforth | yup |
| 00:01.52 | roh | mellon its gprs, not edge |
| 00:01.55 | mellon | It's not failing consistently, but it's failing often enough that my build keeps stopping. |
| 00:01.58 | rushforth | but if one already had service with a 3g phone, it would explain the att choice ;) |
| 00:01.58 | mellon | I know, roh. |
| 00:02.09 | daMaestro | ok.. well a quick google shows that att does like to use the 5v sims |
| 00:02.44 | cjb_ie | that's a bit antediluvian |
| 00:02.56 | Taco | TTL Logic! |
| 00:03.44 | daMaestro | however, on every thread i have read so far, you can go request a 3v sim |
| 00:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z70c5.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:03.56 | roh | daMaestro my last personal 5V sim was issued 7 years ago :) they just suck too much power so providers do not like them |
| 00:04.10 | cjb_ie | when did CMOS start getting used in new designs in preference to TTL? some time in the 80s? |
| 00:04.13 | roh | all usim (3g capable) are 1.8 or 2.9 ones |
| 00:04.37 | linux_galore | LOL @ 5v SIMS , VERY 1980'S |
| 00:04.40 | Taco | Late 1970s, I think. But they were sloooooow. |
| 00:05.17 | linux_galore | actually not 1980's either I used cmos ttl during that decade too |
| 00:05.19 | cjb_ie | okay, HCMOS then |
| 00:06.26 | abraxa_ | bradpitcher: openmoko-devel isn't public |
| 00:06.32 | linux_galore | always add your own 5V rail |
| 00:07.11 | cjb_ie | i think i had to get a new sim about 5 years ago because my shiny new handspring visorphone needed a 3v sim. the original sim dated from around 97 |
| 00:07.26 | cesarb | Which SIM voltages can the neo use? I can see there's 5V (which it obviously can't use), 3V and 1.8V |
| 00:08.29 | doc|home | roh: why would providers care? |
| 00:08.49 | roh | doc|home because they want to sell cheaper phones with bigger standbytime. |
| 00:09.02 | roh | doc|home users which whave empty batterys generate no airtime |
| 00:09.19 | linux_galore | I thought all the 5V sims went out of fashion years back, Im surprised you can still get them |
| 00:09.30 | doc|home | meh, I'd have thought they wouldn't care :) |
| 00:09.39 | doc|home | telecomms companies-- |
| 00:09.54 | roh | linux_galore they are. and no recent phones i know of can handle them |
| 00:10.30 | roh | doc|home they don't care. they just care that users can generate airtime. so 5V sims do not help them |
| 00:11.05 | Taco | I find that the GUI dialer on my neo1973 behaves exactly the same way with or without the AT&T SIM installed. Is there a shell level command I can execute to see if the neo has successfully accessed the SIM? |
| 00:11.49 | linux_galore | tcltk dialer heh |
| 00:11.49 | rushforth | Taco: maybe try libgsmd-tool -m atcmd, and try AT+CIMI |
| 00:16.33 | bradpitcher | abraxa_: so, just core developers then? |
| 00:18.58 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.198.9) |
| 00:20.13 | abraxa_ | bradpitcher: Yeah, because of NDAs |
| 00:20.23 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:20.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Tagging]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 00:20.45 | bradpitcher | abraxa_: got it, thanks |
| 00:21.22 | abraxa_ | bradpitcher: And just in case you're wondering - I'm not in there either :) |
| 00:21.32 | bradpitcher | :) |
| 00:23.22 | Taco | rushforth: Thanks for the suggestion of libgsmd-tool. Is there a description somewhere of the commands which may be given after you've entered atcmd? |
| 00:24.25 | rushforth | Taco: maybe start here |
| 00:24.27 | rushforth | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM |
| 00:24.38 | Taco | Thanks. |
| 00:24.50 | rushforth | np, and gl! |
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| 00:47.24 | daMaestro | so does gsmd work or not? |
| 00:47.38 | daMaestro | or are the gui issues due to some dbus problems? or other? |
| 00:48.19 | Taco | Well, gsmd actually aborts a couple of minutes after the neo boots. |
| 00:49.04 | Taco | When I run it interactively, the last message is "modem alive!" |
| 00:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko rtm_ (n=rtm@pool-151-199-47-90.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:49.31 | rushforth | for me, gsmd can make outgoing calls repeatedly, without issue (using cmdline).. |
| 00:49.35 | SpeedEvil | happycube: Seen http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Unresolved_Hardware_Questions - how to measure current |
| 00:49.39 | rushforth | however, i can only receive one incoming call before gsm fails |
| 00:50.26 | rushforth | usually with gsm_fd error, or else gsmd crashes alltogether, or else load is pegged, and gsmd needs to be killed |
| 00:50.52 | bradpitcher | rushforth: what alsactl file are you using? |
| 00:51.01 | rushforth | /etc/alsa/gsmhandset.state |
| 00:51.33 | rushforth | or, /etc/alsa/gsmheadset.state (with bundled headset plugged in) |
| 00:51.46 | bradpitcher | the one that comes with the image, or the opensource.wolfsonmicro.com one? |
| 00:51.55 | rushforth | one that comes with a recent image |
| 00:52.08 | bradpitcher | oh cool... I hope i didn't overwrite it |
| 00:52.23 | bradpitcher | will mp3 playing work with that one as well? |
| 00:52.34 | rushforth | no |
| 00:52.39 | rushforth | /etc/alsa/stereoout.state for that |
| 00:52.48 | bradpitcher | I see, thanks |
| 00:52.53 | rushforth | np :) |
| 00:53.45 | bradpitcher | yeah, I definitely overwrote it with the opensource.wolfsonmicro.com one, I hope it works as well |
| 00:53.55 | bradpitcher | it's from february 2007 |
| 00:54.13 | rushforth | worst case you could probably re-write it with a new one over ssh, or just reflash the whole device |
| 00:55.01 | bradpitcher | oh of course, I can just get it from svn and scp it over |
| 00:55.12 | bradpitcher | yeah, worst case reflash |
| 00:56.02 | rushforth | anyone been able to mount the phone using sshfs? |
| 00:56.09 | bradpitcher | haven't tried |
| 00:56.21 | rushforth | i tried w/o success.. back to scp for now |
| 00:57.28 | bradpitcher | yeah, scp is working fine |
| 00:57.41 | bradpitcher | so, the one incoming call works great, then when you receive a second one gsm crashes? |
| 00:58.03 | bradpitcher | how do you get it back up? sudo /etc/init.d/gsmd restart? |
| 00:58.10 | rushforth | that has worked one time for me :) |
| 00:58.11 | bradpitcher | oops, -sudo |
| 00:58.17 | rushforth | other times ive had to reboot it entirely |
| 00:58.23 | bradpitcher | oh, yikes |
| 00:58.28 | rushforth | it seems like the modem gets confused or something after the incoming call |
| 00:58.46 | bradpitcher | have you tried a powerdown/powerup? |
| 00:58.54 | linux_galore | sounds like a phone a father would give his teenage daughter 1 call then crashes |
| 00:58.57 | bradpitcher | dang I need to get another SIM card to play with |
| 00:59.00 | bradpitcher | hahaha |
| 00:59.01 | rushforth | a few times, gsmd has just shot the load way up, and ive had to kill it, othertimes i get gsm_fd error when accessing it |
| 00:59.42 | linux_galore | allot of new phones coming out of Korea over the next few weeks |
| 01:00.03 | ZerothCloned | is there room to put in a debugging version of gsmd? so we can see whats going on? |
| 01:00.08 | *** join/#openmoko zaery (n=zaery@c-71-202-249-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:00.20 | linux_galore | although in samsungs case Im not really impressed they seem to be me too Nokia clones |
| 01:00.27 | ferric | i thought gsmd was closed source? |
| 01:00.40 | rushforth | not sure, but there is /tmp/gsm.log |
| 01:00.47 | daMaestro | i think the kmod is, but not the gsmd |
| 01:00.49 | ckuethe | gsmd is open |
| 01:01.02 | ckuethe | it sends commands which may not be publicly documented |
| 01:01.07 | daMaestro | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd#Usage |
| 01:01.15 | ckuethe | to be interpreted byt a fully closed hardware device |
| 01:01.23 | rushforth | in the bugzilla, there is bugs: 385 and 574 which could be applicable |
| 01:01.25 | ckuethe | but gsmd itself isn't proprietary |
| 01:01.28 | ferric | ah, the kmod. |
| 01:01.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: GTA02 Board only option in October? |
| 01:02.17 | linux_galore | aaah save a few $$$ and just buy the new internals |
| 01:03.07 | ferric | you can't.. |
| 01:03.12 | BryceLeo | linux_galore: did you actually look at the email? |
| 01:03.12 | *** join/#openmoko bharath_ (n=bharath@c-24-11-163-248.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 01:03.35 | ferric | it appears that you're not saving much and have a high chance of destroying the gta01 |
| 01:05.24 | mjr | ferric, daMaestro, there are no proprietary kernel modules in openmoko |
| 01:05.32 | mjr | (Harald would strangle Sean) |
| 01:05.49 | daMaestro | so, ? |
| 01:06.00 | ferric | mjr: oh, i thought the gsm stuff had to be closed or something. |
| 01:06.03 | daMaestro | what? i thought the gsm stack was a binary blob? |
| 01:06.08 | mjr | well, I assumed you meant kernel module by kmod |
| 01:06.08 | aloril | (script) planet: Jim "jserv" Huang: 23 Apr 2007 http://www.advogato.org/person/jserv/diary.html?start=6 |
| 01:06.29 | ferric | ah the firmware in the actual gsm module is a binary blob |
| 01:06.36 | daMaestro | is the proprietary gsm stack at the firmware level? |
| 01:06.36 | mjr | yes, the gsm stack is closed. It is also not a part of OpenMoko nor does it run on the application processor |
| 01:06.41 | mjr | yes, firmware |
| 01:06.49 | daMaestro | ah, ok; thanks. |
| 01:08.06 | mjr | there is only the userspace agps driver gllin that is proprietary in openmoko; the neo is the piece that contains some more proprietary stuff, eg. in the gsm, bluetooth and come next model wifi chips |
| 01:08.10 | ferric | but gsmd can talk to the firmware? |
| 01:08.40 | ckuethe | by way of the tty interface the firmware presents, yes |
| 01:08.47 | mjr | ferric, the gsm chips is essentially a standard GSM modem behind a serial line from OpenMoko's/gsmd's perspective |
| 01:08.48 | ckuethe | ie. the gsm shows up as a modem |
| 01:09.38 | ferric | ah |
| 01:10.04 | mjr | takes in well-spesified AT commands etc |
| 01:10.04 | daMaestro | so, the remaining items for gsmd just require knowledge of the protocol? |
| 01:10.15 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 01:10.28 | linux_galore | BryceLeo: not yet, or are they just saying they will only have the board only sorted in October ? |
| 01:10.40 | daMaestro | cool, maybe i'll hack on gsmd (or watch it being hacked on so i can learn more) |
| 01:11.07 | BryceLeo | linux_galore: they're pretty much saying no board only option because it won't be cost effective |
| 01:11.09 | rushforth | daMaestro: check out gsmd-devel mailing list |
| 01:11.10 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@200-193-152-9.mganm702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 01:11.26 | daMaestro | yeah, once i have my device and have all the devel tools packaged for my distro, i'll get on the mailing lists |
| 01:11.32 | daMaestro | but until then... |
| 01:11.41 | mjr | hmh, my Neo is coming tomorrow and I managed to get excited about doing a special kind of usb live distro |
| 01:12.00 | linux_galore | BryceLeo: makes sense, cheaper for me to buy a whole unit from Chine here than a board so it doesnt surprise me |
| 01:12.03 | daMaestro | mjr, can the neo hardware boot from usb? |
| 01:12.07 | rushforth | mjr: as in booting from usb->neo, or booting x86 pc from neo? |
| 01:12.25 | mjr | ...which is completely Neo-unrelated, which is pfft :] |
| 01:12.39 | linux_galore | China* |
| 01:12.59 | daMaestro | booting pc from the neo would be pretty sweet |
| 01:13.13 | daMaestro | and i mean s/pretty/very/ |
| 01:13.20 | mjr | 'cause now I have all this non-Neo-related motivation even though I'm getting one :] |
| 01:13.29 | mjr | daMaestro, that'll be easy |
| 01:13.58 | daMaestro | but we need a powered usb hub yes? |
| 01:14.08 | mjr | actually, if one can stick a 4 gig microsd into a neo, my idea could be peripherally Neo-relevant :] |
| 01:14.13 | BryceLeo | anyone worried about differentiating between gta01 and gta02 compat apps? |
| 01:14.21 | BryceLeo | i.e. which need the faster proc etc |
| 01:14.26 | mjr | daMaestro, certainly not; only if you want to use the Neo as host |
| 01:14.30 | daMaestro | mjr, mind a /msg? |
| 01:14.47 | mjr | go ahead |
| 01:17.47 | Writchie|is_away | mjr: 4 gB micosd probably won't ever work in gta01 |
| 01:17.57 | Writchie|is_away | 2gB probably the max |
| 01:18.25 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z4950.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:21.10 | quinton | it might not work, but i'm sure you'd be able to stick it in =) |
| 01:21.26 | mjr | hehe |
| 01:21.43 | mjr | Writchie|is_away, last I checked there was no sure word on whether it's a driver or hw issue |
| 01:22.00 | mjr | I won't cry if they won't work, just saying my current non-Neo masterplan needs a bit of space on the flash... |
| 01:22.56 | quinton | booting from the neo might be interesting in terms of full disc encryption. |
| 01:23.10 | mjr | quinton, a very good point, actually |
| 01:23.28 | quinton | mjr, what's your master plan? i love those things |
| 01:25.15 | quinton | daMaestro, we all have that one =) |
| 01:25.23 | mjr | a live usb desktop stick where the actual desktop runs in a (probably xen) (para-)vm, from whence it can be suspended on the very stick, taken to a computer (possibly with different hw, obviously), restore the desktop and continue work |
| 01:25.46 | mjr | s/to a/to another/ |
| 01:26.14 | daMaestro | mjr, i have a very similar plan |
| 01:26.17 | daMaestro | mjr, ;-) |
| 01:26.17 | quinton | mjr, that's awesome |
| 01:26.23 | mjr | daMaestro, you bastard |
| 01:26.41 | daMaestro | mjr, though i'm fighting using para-virt |
| 01:27.05 | mjr | I figured para is good in this case since it's linux on both sides anyway, maximizes efficiency |
| 01:27.09 | ferric | mjr: wait... why do you need a neo for that? |
| 01:27.10 | daMaestro | but it works on most commodity hardware, so having ring based guest support is a good idea |
| 01:27.17 | ferric | oh wait, you said the neo isn't really part of th eplan |
| 01:27.24 | mjr | ferric, yes I did :] |
| 01:27.52 | mjr | daMaestro, have you managed to get anything done yet then? Me neither :) |
| 01:27.56 | ferric | i like vmotion better, zap your VM across the network to a box billions of miles away |
| 01:27.59 | ferric | :D |
| 01:28.16 | daMaestro | mjr, i have |
| 01:28.29 | daMaestro | mjr, i have a use based xen guest booting on a live dom0 |
| 01:28.35 | daMaestro | s/use/usb/ |
| 01:28.42 | mjr | righto |
| 01:29.16 | daMaestro | i've not tried moving between hypervisors or having the guest resume from some sort of suspend |
| 01:29.58 | daMaestro | but one reason i'm looking away from hypervisors is because if you do full virt, you can count on a lot of the same exact hardware (emulated of course) |
| 01:30.00 | *** join/#openmoko calamous1_ (n=shannon@c-76-24-204-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
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| 01:30.17 | calamous1_ | Anyone figure out the 3g sim cards yet? |
| 01:30.19 | daMaestro | and in a stateless env, you don't really need to bring the kernel up and down |
| 01:30.34 | daMaestro | calamous1_, you're one of the att people right? |
| 01:30.45 | calamous1_ | Yes I am |
| 01:30.53 | ferric | 3g in the US? uh... where? |
| 01:30.56 | mjr | I figured I'd use an ubuntu live image as a basis, compressed filesystem, same filesystem for dom0 and domU (read-only, after all), do some different setup based on the result, mount (overlay?) stuff on the dom0, handle display with a VNC viewer running on dom0 X server, a RANDR-patched Xvnc on domU, pulseaudio on dom0, domU-ALSA set up to use that, and perhaps after that, USB/IP |
| 01:31.11 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: any new on getting them working? |
| 01:31.13 | daMaestro | calamous1_, you should try to find out for us what kinda of sim you have ... 3v 5v etc |
| 01:31.16 | rushforth | ferric: all over where I live :) |
| 01:31.23 | ferric | rushforth: whoa - really? |
| 01:31.33 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: how can I determine that? |
| 01:31.38 | mjr | daMaestro, yeah, you can see that I'm thinking working around most of the hardware thingies with network access ;) |
| 01:31.38 | daMaestro | calamous1_, call them |
| 01:31.43 | rushforth | ferric: yup, cingular(att), sprint, and verizon (im in los angeles) |
| 01:31.49 | daMaestro | mjr, yes.. interesting concept |
| 01:32.06 | ferric | ack |
| 01:33.29 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: Alright, I'll call tomorrow. the number on my sim is 4021 and someone told me that its a simtronics (http://www.oberthurcs.com/getpage.aspx?id=65#application) |
| 01:33.40 | calamous1_ | simphonic* |
| 01:34.19 | mjr | daMaestro, anyway, if I get anything done, I'll try to remember to sync with you for experiences |
| 01:34.26 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: that sim works in every other phone by the neo, which tells me that there isnt even a sim card inserted |
| 01:34.29 | daMaestro | ok |
| 01:34.35 | daMaestro | calamous1_, right |
| 01:34.45 | mjr | I'm a bit fickle with motivation, so I'm not sure if this'll stick |
| 01:35.08 | daMaestro | calamous1_, we really just need to track down if it is something that att can fix or not |
| 01:35.45 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: I know, but when the card works in all other devices it makes me think the neo is at fault. And the older sim cards the 2g ones work fine in the neo |
| 01:36.01 | calamous1_ | so I know my neo's card reader is working |
| 01:36.28 | daMaestro | well, my point is "we need to find out if att is willing to fix the issue.. aka give us sim cards that work" |
| 01:36.44 | rushforth | you can buy an att compatible 2g sim on ebay |
| 01:36.44 | daMaestro | if not, we really need to tell the consumer base that att wont work |
| 01:36.45 | SpeedEvil | Or what otehr phones if any the SIM doesn't work in. |
| 01:36.47 | calamous1_ | if( sim.generation == 3 && phone.model == "neo") dontwork(); |
| 01:37.27 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: my att 3g sim cards works in lots of phones, including my dad's older 2g phone |
| 01:37.42 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: but not the neo |
| 01:37.55 | daMaestro | did you have a choice? or did they just give you the sim? |
| 01:37.58 | mellon | hm, my openmoko build is dying in openmoko-rssreader. |
| 01:38.11 | ferric | error? |
| 01:38.18 | rushforth | daMaestro: all the newly sold att sims are 3g. no exceptions. (at least what i was told) |
| 01:38.22 | cesarb | calamous1_: perhaps because the neo is a _metric_ phone ;-) |
| 01:38.23 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: They just gave me the sim. Its the standard at&t sim |
| 01:38.27 | mellon | | checking for WEBKITGTK... Package WebKitGdk was not found in the pkg-config search path. |
| 01:38.57 | sagacis | ls |
| 01:39.07 | daMaestro | ok, so the more and more we work through this.. the more and more it sounds like att is not going to allow the neo? |
| 01:39.09 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: As much as I dislike at&t, I don't feel they are at fault. They cards work in all other phones i've tried. |
| 01:39.09 | ferric | wait. you have access to the code, there must be a way to find out how far it gets into recognizing the SIM... |
| 01:39.39 | ferric | mellon: are you using mokomakefile? |
| 01:39.40 | rushforth | the farthest ive gotten is CME ERROR 13 (instead of CME ERROR 10), which means sim failure, (instead of sim not inserted) |
| 01:39.42 | cesarb | ferric: only if you have access to the gsm chip's code |
| 01:39.48 | mellon | nope, building from scratch. |
| 01:39.51 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: Do you think at&t is trying to prevent neos on their network or the neo cant read 3g sim cards? |
| 01:40.01 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi (n=cktakaha@201.32.146.227) |
| 01:40.03 | ferric | cesarb: ah |
| 01:40.05 | SpeedEvil | ferric: the GSM modules code is closed. |
| 01:40.09 | cesarb | ferric: which we don't (but FIC does) |
| 01:40.11 | mellon | I would be *shocked* if AT&T is even aware of the openmoko on that level. |
| 01:40.14 | rushforth | its got to be the neo, or combination of hardware in the neo. |
| 01:40.18 | calamous1_ | rushforth: was your error 13 with an at&t "3g fireball" sim card |
| 01:40.19 | SpeedEvil | I don't think FIC does. |
| 01:40.21 | ferric | i thought the gsm module was open, as well, just the firmware was closed |
| 01:40.24 | rushforth | and if we are lucky, software. |
| 01:40.26 | ferric | atleast that's what mjr just said... |
| 01:40.27 | SpeedEvil | FIC - AIUI - get a binary image from TI. |
| 01:40.31 | rushforth | calamous1_: yup |
| 01:40.42 | cesarb | ferric: so I think FIC is going to get one of these problematic SIMs to test |
| 01:40.44 | calamous1_ | rushforth: did you do any initilization at cmds first? |
| 01:40.46 | ferric | mellon: do you have webkitgdk? |
| 01:40.54 | mjr | ferric, I don't know what you mean by "open but firmware closed" |
| 01:41.07 | ferric | actually, neither do i |
| 01:41.09 | daMaestro | does tmobile not have 3g sims? |
| 01:41.12 | calamous1_ | I would be more than happy to ship my SIM to TW for fic to see that their phone is not working with it |
| 01:41.14 | rushforth | calamous1_: ive only gotten CME ERROR 13 one time, it was after i had tried to register using the wiki instructions |
| 01:41.16 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: from what I read on one of the gsmd-devel emails and the wiki, they added extra commands to the gsm chip's firmware |
| 01:41.19 | mellon | ferric: er, for which architecture? I would like to think bitbake would have built a cross library for the neo. |
| 01:41.20 | mjr | it's pretty closed, even with datasheet being unavailable, but it does implement the usual AT standards |
| 01:41.27 | SpeedEvil | ferric: the modem looks like an AT modem. It supports the open AT standard. The code to implement the modem on the modems CPU is closed. |
| 01:41.29 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: including the "poweroff" one |
| 01:41.33 | ferric | lol tmobile _barely_ has SIMs which can make calls. |
| 01:41.38 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: so, they should have at least some of the code |
| 01:41.59 | ferric | mjr: ah |
| 01:42.05 | calamous1_ | Since the TI Cylapso is not "open" FIC needs to solve this problem. |
| 01:42.10 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.198.9) |
| 01:42.52 | mjr | so basically the degree of openness is that we know how to talk to it to make it do "usual GSM/GPRS stuff" |
| 01:42.53 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: Perhaps - I'm unsure. I haven't been reading the gsmd list. |
| 01:43.15 | ferric | mjr: but we can't figure out what error it's throwing on the 'no SIM card found!!! error P134121' |
| 01:43.27 | mjr | nope |
| 01:43.56 | ferric | mellon: you're right, bitbake should've got it for you |
| 01:44.00 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: I got the impression that TI had to do the changes - hence the slowness of the sidetone fixes. |
| 01:44.12 | calamous1_ | I will laugh when fic markets the GTA02 and it dosent work with 3g sim cards. |
| 01:44.12 | ferric | mellon: why not use mokomakefile? |
| 01:44.19 | ferric | lol calamous1_ |
| 01:44.22 | *** join/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:44.26 | BryceLeo | any of the guys who were interest in the crash course around? |
| 01:44.40 | ferric | i doubt that'll happen. sooner or later one of the devs will figure out how to make it work. |
| 01:44.46 | ferric | 'the power of open source'. :P |
| 01:44.54 | daMaestro | assuming the issue is software |
| 01:45.16 | ferric | even if it isn't. someone will figure out a solution, maybe someone from TI will write a patch :/ |
| 01:45.29 | rushforth | daMaestro: exactly. |
| 01:45.31 | daMaestro | patch == software |
| 01:45.39 | ferric | patch to firmware, i meant |
| 01:45.48 | daMaestro | if we really have a 3g hardware issue, that would suck |
| 01:46.00 | daMaestro | i would personally go as far as saying show stopper |
| 01:46.15 | daMaestro | but that is just my "opinion" ... so don't listen to me |
| 01:46.18 | Writchie | hardware doesn't work on 3G |
| 01:46.27 | daMaestro | yeah, but 3g SIM cards |
| 01:46.28 | cesarb | well, it could be that it's NOT the GSM module's fault... |
| 01:46.29 | rushforth | the contacts on the 3g sim are slightly different from the 2g sim.. this is what scares me. (i also know little about sim card construction) |
| 01:46.37 | cesarb | did someone figure out the power wiring of the neo? |
| 01:46.43 | Writchie | AIUK FIC now has the tools to make changes to the gsm stack |
| 01:46.43 | khester | hi ya'll - so I received my neo1973 a couple of days ago, and I have a question ;-). Since the stock kernel image was not bootable, I followed instructions on the getting started page and downloaded a prebuilt image as a starting point (my local build of a rootfs is coming down next). However, I now see that there is no agpsd or similar in the prebuilt images. By overwriting the borked kernel/rootfs that came on the phone did I los |
| 01:46.47 | ferric | rushforth: how?! |
| 01:46.50 | Writchie | but this will not be open |
| 01:46.55 | cesarb | because I wouldn't be surprised if the SIM's power supply comes from the power management chip |
| 01:47.06 | cesarb | and it could be that that SIM has a different voltage from the rest |
| 01:47.12 | rushforth | ferric: how are the contacts different? |
| 01:47.14 | cesarb | (i.e. it's 1.8V and the rest is 3V or vice versa) |
| 01:47.40 | cesarb | khester: there's no rootfs on the shipped phones, see the SH1 page on the wiki |
| 01:47.49 | ferric | rushforth: no... how do you know about sim card constrution :P |
| 01:47.56 | rushforth | oohh |
| 01:48.06 | rushforth | sorry, i also know "nothing" about sim card construction :) |
| 01:48.24 | ferric | lol |
| 01:48.26 | Writchie | ok sgt schultz |
| 01:48.29 | rushforth | but visually, the pin-outs look different |
| 01:48.29 | khester | cesarb: I grok. That's why I put a rootfs on there per the sh1 page. So how do I get a copy of the proprietary agpsd which is apparently not kosher for online distribution |
| 01:48.37 | khester | (thanks for the help) |
| 01:48.42 | daMaestro | http://www.oberthurcs.com/getpage.aspx?id=65#application "SIM Sentry" is scaring me |
| 01:49.34 | cesarb | rushforth: only the "pads" on the sides matter, whether or not they are connected in the middle do not matter |
| 01:50.15 | rwhitby | khester: it was never there in the first place on your phone - the wiki page is wrong. it only ever went out to P0 developers |
| 01:50.21 | rushforth | cesarb: ah, very interesting. |
| 01:50.26 | khester | cesarb: bummer |
| 01:50.48 | ferric | so P1 folks don't get the agpsd? |
| 01:51.08 | ferric | which reminds me, when is Batch2 of P1 phones coming to the US? |
| 01:51.11 | ZerothCloned | I agree with daMaestro *shudders* scary app |
| 01:51.12 | khester | has there been any announcment of how to get that piece of software. I'm a bit of a low level GPS geek and wanted to get a little app that I've been running under the emulator on the phone |
| 01:51.13 | rwhitby | if you're not a P0 developer who got it on the phone, the only legal way to get it is to wait until OpenMoko has finalised the license with Global Locate so they can distribute it to you |
| 01:51.33 | daMaestro | we could be running into something like "oh... to be able to use this sim you need to buy our sdk to learn how to init the sim before you use it" |
| 01:51.57 | rwhitby | khester: I suggest you talk privately to some of the people on the sphyrna mailing list. |
| 01:52.00 | khester | ah - has there been any discussion on this license issue? i.e. is there a list I should be reading other than the open-moko-devel list |
| 01:52.01 | ferric | rwhitby: or bribe a P0 dev? :D |
| 01:52.12 | Writchie | calypso chipset is used on many phones |
| 01:52.23 | mjr | khester, there was a brief mention by Sean on -community today |
| 01:52.24 | Writchie | doubt this is an intrisic problem |
| 01:52.31 | rwhitby | khester: sean mailed about it on one of the lists |
| 01:53.13 | SpeedEvil | khester: define low-level |
| 01:53.23 | *** join/#openmoko pixelstick (n=dwpage@d-74-214-40-122.metrocast.net) |
| 01:53.24 | khester | ok - i'll check that out. i haven't been reading community, I guess I get on it. (if anyone wants to anonymously mail me some random exe - nudge nudge - I'm kevinh@geeksville.com) |
| 01:53.33 | SpeedEvil | khester: psuedoranges, PRNs, and ionospheric delays? |
| 01:53.46 | daMaestro | A customer proof platform: |
| 01:53.46 | daMaestro | capitalizing on the strengths of SIMphonICâ„¢ 2G, SIMphonIC 3G provides robustness, performance, security and flexible storage capacities for succeeding in 3G services roll out. ..... now that is even more scary |
| 01:54.15 | Writchie | maybe its the spy application in the USIM |
| 01:54.22 | Writchie | also called QoS |
| 01:54.27 | khester | SpeedEvil: not that low level ;-). I'm a kernel drivers type guy who has also written a few NMEA based GUIs on a contract dev job |
| 01:59.40 | SpeedEvil | khester: Ah :) |
| 01:59.43 | daMaestro | Writchie, i think the "Standardized remote applications management based on GlobalPlatform 2.1.1" is more the spy application |
| 01:59.43 | Writchie | i thought AT&T has always been customer proof |
| 01:59.43 | Writchie | and future proof |
| 01:59.43 | Writchie | here we go - smooth migration from 2G to 3G |
| 01:59.43 | rtm_ | I just did a floating point benchmark on the neo1973 and was pleasantly surprised. It came out about 1/200 as fast as a 1.8 GHz Core duo (using only one processor). Not bad, for a machine with no floating point hardware. |
| 01:59.43 | khester | ok - just read sean's note on the GPS driver. I can wait a bit since it is supposedly _very soon_. |
| 01:59.43 | khester | therefore my first task will be what I had previously planned as my second task: add the code so the neo will connect to my bluetooth headset and keyboard |
| 01:59.48 | khester | my app will have to live in qemu a bit longer |
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| 02:02.22 | mellon | ferric: mokomakefile is bandaids on top of bandaids on top of bandaids. I really prefer to get as close to the source as possible. |
| 02:02.40 | mellon | frankly, bitbake is a bit too far away for my taste. this is no way to do release engineering. |
| 02:03.46 | ZerothCloned | ah, but for other devs, mokomakefile is a godsend |
| 02:04.05 | BryceLeo | mellon: what are you talking about? |
| 02:04.26 | cesarb | mellon: mokomakefile is a _very_ thin wrapper over bitbake proprer, so why not use it? |
| 02:04.26 | BryceLeo | mellon: how can you not do release engineering with bitbake? |
| 02:05.12 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 02:05.18 | mellon | the right way to fix something is to fix it at the source, not to apply patches. |
| 02:05.36 | mellon | If you automate the process of applying patches, the fix never makes it to the source. |
| 02:05.56 | cesarb | I recall some time ago I saw somewhere an image (probably a PDF) which showed the power subsystem of the neo (like, what was connected to which power bus)... does anyone know where it is? I am not finding it anymore |
| 02:06.04 | BryceLeo | mellon: OE patches don't apply to the source, they're stictly for our platform |
| 02:06.09 | cesarb | mellon: tell that to andrew morton |
| 02:06.47 | mellon | e.g., there's a bug in the build right now because some of the patches that bitbake applies are obsolete, in the sense that they are no longer required because they *have* propogated back to the source. |
| 02:06.49 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: the Neo1973 Power Managment page has the info. |
| 02:07.26 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: but not the image... |
| 02:07.36 | BryceLeo | mellon: and that's not the case with all the patches, i'm sure many patches that get submitted take time to get pulled upstream but we need them now |
| 02:08.08 | mellon | Why are we arguing about this? |
| 02:08.15 | cesarb | mellon: automated applying of patches is great when you fix bugs and submit them upstream, since they are very separable |
| 02:08.17 | cesarb | mellon: no idea |
| 02:08.22 | mellon | :') |
| 02:08.29 | BryceLeo | mellon: no idea either |
| 02:08.49 | BryceLeo | any guys good with bitbake in the house |
| 02:09.15 | mellon | I think it's fine if you guys use mokomakefile, but for me it hides too much of the build process. |
| 02:10.44 | BryceLeo | mellon: have you gotten an app onto the emulator yet? |
| 02:10.49 | cesarb | mellon: not when you say "hey, this doesn't work" and the fix is already in mokomakefile's patches directory |
| 02:10.58 | mellon | Is it? |
| 02:11.09 | cesarb | mellon: (i.e., ok you do not want to use mokomakefile, but at least take a look at it and the patches directory which comes with it) |
| 02:11.51 | mellon | BryceLeo: nope. I got a built to go on feisty, but I've been traveling and my laptop is running Gutsy, so I'm having difficulties. |
| 02:12.21 | BryceLeo | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course this uses the mokomakefile but it should help you out |
| 02:12.37 | mellon | Hm, okay, thanks. |
| 02:12.43 | cesarb | mellon: and the build dying on webkit, IIRC the fix is already on openmoko's svn (they changed the sane version of the rss reader to something older) |
| 02:12.50 | BryceLeo | i'm going to include instruction for by hand builders tomorrow |
| 02:13.05 | cesarb | mellon: (which means that not using mokomakefile makes no difference here) |
| 02:13.30 | mellon | cesarb: interesting. I guess bitbake isn't actually grabbing the latest stuff, though. |
| 02:13.51 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: IIRC it's changed a bit since P0 which may have been when the image was. |
| 02:14.07 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.198.9) |
| 02:14.26 | roh | mellon bb isnt very good at tracking deps. |
| 02:14.47 | roh | mellon do a bitbake -cclean openmoko-rssreader and update sdn |
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| 02:14.52 | cesarb | mellon: bitbake wouldn't grab it, you have to svn update the openmoko directory |
| 02:14.54 | roh | s/sdn/svn to pull the fix |
| 02:15.10 | cesarb | mellon: because it's not in the recipe, but in one of the .inc things in conf/ |
| 02:15.11 | rwhitby | mellon: MokoMakefile supports running bitbake by hand. Think of it as an environment setup and maintenance tool, and a build tool for those who just want the image. If you're actually developing, then use bitbake directly after using mokomakefile to set things up the same as everyone else (and to make sure you've got the latest of everything) |
| 02:15.15 | mellon | roh:cool, thanks. |
| 02:16.14 | mellon | rwhitby: that makes sense. :') |
| 02:16.31 | mellon | thanks everyone! |
| 02:18.08 | rwhitby | MokoMakefile hides the detail from those who wouldn't look at it anyway, and puts the detail in a standard place for those who do want to look at and use it. |
| 02:18.54 | ferric | yes, so don't go around calling someone's baby blind if you haven't tried playing with it |
| 02:20.18 | mellon | Er, somebody asked why I wasn't using mokomakefile. I said why. No need to get huffy! |
| 02:20.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Carriers/TMobile]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Carriers]] |
| 02:20.44 | mellon | (Unless you like kids' bikes) |
| 02:22.34 | cesarb | mellon: be glad nobody asked which text editor you use ;-) |
| 02:22.45 | ZerothCloned | btw, rwhitby, your MokoMakefile is awesome :D |
| 02:22.49 | mellon | I use Microsoft Word, like any sensible person! ;') |
| 02:23.16 | DukeOfURL | rwhitby: ditto |
| 02:23.37 | cesarb | rwhitby: oh, btw, when I made that patch which changed the ; to && on mokomakefile, I missed one on push-openembedded |
| 02:23.52 | mellon | Even though I don't use it myself, I have in fact been using the documentation for it in the Wiki and the patches that it dowloads; it is much appreciated! |
| 02:24.13 | rwhitby | mellon: I took no offense at all at your remarks, so ferric's statement was not at all what I was thinking. |
| 02:25.03 | mellon | I appreciate your forbearance. :') |
| 02:26.01 | cesarb | rwhitby: do you want a patch for that two-character change or is it not needed? (btw, does anyone actually use that target at all?) |
| 02:26.04 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r105 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: One more robustness fix ( ; -> && ) from cesarb |
| 02:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 02:27.04 | rwhitby | mellon: in my mind, whether people use MokoMakefile or not is their personal choice. I do like to hear why people decide not to use it, so I can make it better enough that they will (on their own decision) choose to use it. |
| 02:27.28 | mellon | I like your rationale for starting with it - if I'd heard that at the beginning I probably would have done. |
| 02:27.45 | mellon | Indeed, if I can't get the build going I may start over that way. |
| 02:27.48 | rwhitby | Open source is about making stuf which is so good that people choose to use it, not forcing stuff down people's throats like a zealot :-) |
| 02:28.09 | mellon | Of course, you must use the One True Editor. But otherwise I agree. |
| 02:28.30 | rwhitby | mellon: and I do use the One True Editor, so we'll get along just fine ;-) |
| 02:28.31 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: can you put the download counter link on the wiki somewhere if its' there? |
| 02:28.34 | cjb | rwhitby: yeah, the second way's called Free Software instead. :) |
| 02:28.45 | rwhitby | cjb: amen brother |
| 02:29.06 | cjb | (I'm actually on the Free Software side, just being ironical.) |
| 02:29.25 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: there is no download counter link. It's a set of awk commands that I run on the server periodically. |
| 02:29.30 | mellon | rwhitby: you use ITS TECO? Wow! |
| 02:29.32 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 02:29.45 | rwhitby | cjb: I travel in both camps depending on the application and the situation. |
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| 02:31.03 | rwhitby | mellon: no, but I was using Emacs back in 1989 |
| 02:31.19 | Writchie | isn't one true editor already on neo? |
| 02:31.23 | mellon | I was using Emacs in 1983! :') |
| 02:31.27 | SpeedEvil | mjr: so _that's_ why we need multitouch. |
| 02:31.32 | ZerothCloned | just put pico on there |
| 02:31.33 | mellon | But I'm actually amvidextrous. |
| 02:31.48 | ZerothCloned | its small, simple, doesn't need many special characters |
| 02:32.09 | mellon | Heavens, just get an external keyboard. |
| 02:32.14 | mellon | You can have all the bucky bits you need. |
| 02:32.26 | BryceLeo | alrighty guys the crash course is up with a basic CLI Hello world app, so check it out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Development_Crash_Course if you have any questions comments or critique, feel free to email me at bryce.leo at your favourite gmail.com |
| 02:32.36 | mellon | Drill a hole on either edge, put in a shoulder strap, and carry it with you. |
| 02:32.54 | BryceLeo | i'll hopefully have a gdk hello world app included that will have a bit about versioning with bitbake tomorrow |
| 02:33.06 | BryceLeo | and other than that, keep safe and happy coding! |
| 02:33.13 | mjr | BryceLeo, thanks; was a good quick read, anyways, though too tired to try anything now |
| 02:33.28 | *** join/#openmoko charkins (n=casey@68-114-222-250.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 02:33.33 | Hadaka | BryceLeo: I read it - excellent stuff, that's what I'll use when my phone gets here |
| 02:33.36 | ZerothCloned | lmao |
| 02:33.44 | BryceLeo | awesome good to hear guys |
| 02:34.00 | ZerothCloned | Umm, question: anyone have any idea how to get a python file(s) included as a package into the image? |
| 02:34.01 | BryceLeo | it'll get better as the days go on, i hope to have it in a form that I consider finished by the end of the week |
| 02:34.04 | BryceLeo | c ya all |
| 02:34.13 | mellon | cesarb:hm, for that you probably want to strap it so that it hangs at belt level. I was thinking you'd unsling it, sit down somewhere, and start typing, not that you'd type and walk at the same time... :') |
| 02:34.17 | BryceLeo | lol ZerothCloned you're so impatient, but i'll get to that too |
| 02:34.29 | BryceLeo | lol |
| 02:34.31 | BryceLeo | night all |
| 02:34.37 | mellon | 'night Bryce! |
| 02:34.43 | Hadaka | 'nite |
| 02:36.31 | mellon | Hm, okay, I'm starting to like this guitar idea - you could set it up with a split inverted keyboard, so that one hand is typing from one side, and one from the other. |
| 02:36.56 | cesarb | mellon: I got that mental image from some cyberpunk novel, just FYI |
| 02:37.03 | cesarb | I think it was Neuromancer |
| 02:37.05 | ZerothCloned | why not a guitar? Then we can at least look somewhat cool. |
| 02:37.12 | rwhitby | BTW, the best way to get a random file included in the image is to build it, then scp the .ipkg file over, then ipkg install it locally. |
| 02:37.23 | mellon | cesarb:The great tragedy of Neuromancer was that when he wrote it, William Gibson had never heard of a "head crash." |
| 02:37.37 | ZerothCloned | I don't have a phone to actually scp it over |
| 02:37.40 | cesarb | rwhitby: can you explain in less than ten IRC lines how to scp a random file to the qemu-emulated neo? |
| 02:37.59 | ZerothCloned | and the building part doesn't work for a python file for some reason. |
| 02:38.00 | cesarb | rwhitby: a lot of people have problems with the usb gadget qemu thingy |
| 02:38.38 | *** join/#openmoko ay (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 02:38.50 | rwhitby | cesarb: no idea - I was talking from a theoretical viewpoint ;-) |
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| 02:39.07 | daMaestro | i've not tried to get qemu based networking going |
| 02:39.14 | daMaestro | someone should try slirp |
| 02:39.22 | daMaestro | though, inbound with slirp is nasty |
| 02:39.36 | cesarb | How about a vfat image, being opened from with qemu as a SD card? |
| 02:40.00 | cesarb | With the use of mtools and a few extra targets on the makefile, you could make it real easy to copy files from/to it |
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| 02:40.42 | cesarb | s/with qemu/within qemu/ |
| 02:42.40 | ZerothCloned | anyway, talk to y'all later |
| 02:45.58 | rwhitby | BryceLeo|Asleep: /home/moko is just an example path for the documentation - you can put it anywhere. |
| 02:46.28 | rwhitby | cesarb: or sshfs to your build dir directly from the phone |
| 02:46.57 | cesarb | rwhitby: wouldn't that need networking first? |
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| 02:47.52 | cesarb | rwhitby: btw, /home/moko is a bad path, it has confunded at least two people on this IRC channel already that I can remember |
| 02:48.01 | cesarb | rwhitby: because it needs root to be created |
| 02:48.18 | roh | cesarb its not worse than any path. its a example. |
| 02:48.34 | cesarb | roh: it's worse than all paths under the user's own home |
| 02:48.49 | cesarb | roh: it's not worse than any paths writeable only by root |
| 02:48.55 | roh | cesarb people need to start reading the docs first |
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| 02:56.21 | happycube | i just used /moko myself :P |
| 02:56.29 | happycube | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:56.37 | happycube | it dosen't really matter ;) |
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| 03:01.42 | roh | i use ~/svn/openmoko like for every project.. |
| 03:06.19 | mellon | oo, build completed! |
| 03:06.53 | mellon | good night, all! |
| 03:07.02 | StylusEater | what type of payment does openmoko.com take? |
| 03:08.35 | SpeedEvil | credit cards. |
| 03:09.15 | StylusEater | word. |
| 03:10.57 | StylusEater | SpeedEvil: are the developer (neo advanced) kits shipping? |
| 03:11.47 | ljp | yes |
| 03:12.14 | SpeedEvil | Not at the moment - they have run out of stock at the moment. When more will be available is unclear. |
| 03:12.25 | StylusEater | ah |
| 03:12.26 | StylusEater | thx. |
| 03:14.33 | daMaestro | heya StylusEater |
| 03:14.35 | *** join/#openmoko Lounge_ (n=Groove@adsl-75-50-149-195.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:15.36 | Lounge_ | i just made firefox home page theme |
| 03:15.40 | Lounge_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:15.40 | aloril | Lounge_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 03:15.48 | StylusEater | hi j... how goes it? |
| 03:16.25 | daMaestro | StylusEater, just trying to fix up a few annoying bugs; observing how the platform is shaping up here |
| 03:16.28 | StylusEater | daMaestro: I saw you in here earlier. You haven't gotten yours yet eh? |
| 03:16.29 | daMaestro | should be getting my neo tomorrow |
| 03:16.47 | StylusEater | nice. the basic or "advanced"? |
| 03:16.52 | daMaestro | tomorrow, assuming UPS didn't hire any incompetent workers here in CO |
| 03:16.55 | daMaestro | just the basic |
| 03:17.03 | StylusEater | slick |
| 03:17.16 | StylusEater | gonna post a short photo/review article? |
| 03:17.37 | daMaestro | you should join unity-devel for a moment |
| 03:17.39 | StylusEater | are you going to linuxworld this year? |
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| 04:02.02 | orzo | i've got the no-neo blues |
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| 04:13.12 | happycube | neo-geo1973... plug in cartriges that play 4 classic pong games in one classic machine |
| 04:13.30 | happycube | and i hope you get your neo soon orzo |
| 04:18.54 | rwhitby | cesarb: I changed ~/openmoko to ~/moko, cause there is a directory named 'openmoko' below that and that might cause even more confusion. |
| 04:21.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Talk:Application_Development_Crash_Course]] |
| 04:31.44 | *** join/#openmoko bradpitcher (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 04:33.29 | blindcoder | moin |
| 04:35.56 | *** part/#openmoko sagacis|away (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 04:39.06 | Obri | moin |
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| 04:39.23 | bradpitcher | what is moin? |
| 04:39.39 | T3 | morning in casual german |
| 04:40.13 | bradpitcher | ahh, cool. I've always wondered that |
| 04:41.10 | bradpitcher | seems openmoko has a large german community |
| 04:41.21 | Tv | harald welte has a posse ;) |
| 04:41.34 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse_home (n=kruz@69.73.127.92) |
| 04:41.37 | bradpitcher | haha. yes that explains it |
| 04:41.46 | bkruse_home | is trunk qemu-neo1973 broken? aka does not compile? |
| 04:48.56 | bkruse_home | nevermind, it was me not re-running my configure script, thanks ne wayz :] |
| 04:49.11 | codyl|afk | seriously? like as in wikis the front page is almost always Moin.php or something |
| 04:49.45 | bradpitcher | yes, that's why I was wondering :) |
| 04:51.09 | hads | Um, two different things. |
| 04:51.16 | Tv | codyl|afk: eh, MoinMoin is a wiki implementation written in python.. |
| 04:51.47 | codyl|afk | Tv: haha, that makes sense :-P |
| 04:52.52 | bradpitcher | so the wiki isn't named after the german word? |
| 04:53.22 | hads | Possibly. |
| 04:53.57 | Tv | MoinMoin is very much named after the german word |
| 04:54.07 | Tv | As in "Moin, moin" -- like "hello, hello" |
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| 04:54.29 | bradpitcher | ha, cool |
| 04:54.31 | naggerbot | DCC SEND aiufbauibauiebifkbsifjbsefgijb 0 0 0 |
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| 04:56.28 | jobundy | DCC SEND aiufbauibauiebifkbsifjbsefgijb 0 0 0 |
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| 05:07.16 | rtm_ | If I set the system time on my neo, if forgets the time when it is next rebooted. Does anyone know of a way to set the time in a way that persists through reboots? |
| 05:07.44 | bradpitcher | yes, I have that problem as well |
| 05:08.12 | aloril | one way would be to use gpsd to set time... if required software was available ;-) |
| 05:08.36 | aloril | TZ + ^ |
| 05:08.41 | rtm_ | Yes, too bad about gpsd... |
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| 05:14.37 | roh | hey guys... i have a riddle for you ;) |
| 05:14.39 | roh | http://nibbler.geekheim.de/?p=57 |
| 05:15.22 | roh | have fun comparing your sims to these photos |
| 05:15.45 | bradpitcher | wow you have a lot of sim cards |
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| 05:16.04 | roh | nibbler has ;) |
| 05:16.15 | bradpitcher | oh |
| 05:17.05 | roh | and thats only a part of his sims.. only one of each type |
| 05:17.44 | rtm_ | Although the page mentions the problems om folks have been having with SIMs, it does not identify any of the SIMs on that page as working with the neo1973 |
| 05:19.06 | roh | rtm_ ive used schlumberger ones successfull. to be exact, every sim ive had worked in mine |
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| 05:21.40 | bkruse_home | so when you run ./openmoko/download.sh from the qemu-neo1973 directory, does that image it downloads a prebuilt image? or does it use the trunk directory, if not, wheres the wiki page for building your own image from trunk? |
| 05:23.36 | ynezz | roh: are you trying to fix that #666 evil bug? :p |
| 05:24.12 | roh | ynezz we are trying to figure out whats happening. |
| 05:24.46 | ynezz | if I were you I would try to ask some of the bug reporters to send me his card with roaming enabled... |
| 05:24.46 | roh | ynezz then we can fix it |
| 05:24.56 | ynezz | and you can send it back ASAP |
| 05:25.07 | ynezz | i think it would be easier and faster... |
| 05:26.33 | ynezz | i really don't know, you might get good support from TI of course :p |
| 05:28.39 | rwhitby | bkruse_home: mokomakefile |
| 05:29.43 | bkruse_home | rwhitby: thank you |
| 05:42.17 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Maa55.m.pppool.de) |
| 05:44.12 | happycube | just found a cpufreq patch on the net |
| 05:44.28 | rtm_ | What's that do? |
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| 05:44.59 | happycube | clock changes - i.e. 66mhz, 133mhz, 266mhz... |
| 05:45.30 | rtm_ | Cool (or, I guess warm, depending on the argument) |
| 05:46.14 | rtm_ | What's the URL for cpufreq? |
| 05:46.22 | happycube | http://www.evolware.org/chri/paciugo/cpufreq.patch - patch is here |
| 05:46.34 | happycube | http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kernel.org%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Futils%2Fkernel%2Fcpufreq%2Fcpufreq.html&ei=NXutRvDLBJqwecqgjP8F&usg=AFQjCNHEafEgAUvSi59oNwwi3jDisw61fA&sig2=iirfv94bRlDEfT4d5_JQkQ |
| 05:46.35 | happycube | oops |
| 05:46.43 | happycube | http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/cpufreq/cpufreq.html |
| 05:48.33 | ynezz | does it mean that it can work even at 1MHz? :p |
| 05:48.43 | ynezz | according to that patch |
| 05:48.56 | happycube | i wouldn't try it myself ;) |
| 05:49.04 | happycube | i don't think i'd go below 60 |
| 05:49.16 | happycube | since iirc you need that to keep the screen running |
| 05:49.33 | happycube | i guess since i have a debug board i could try running at 67.5 and make sure that works |
| 05:50.23 | ynezz | why do you need screen running in your pocket? :) |
| 05:50.48 | happycube | you don't ;) but for those modes you use IDLE anyhow |
| 05:50.57 | happycube | and just wake the cpu when interrupts come in |
| 05:51.52 | ynezz | yep |
| 05:54.22 | ynezz | btw did you recieved batteries with your advanced pack? |
| 05:54.27 | happycube | yeah i got 2 |
| 05:54.33 | ynezz | i've heard that somebody don't :p |
| 05:54.45 | happycube | ouch |
| 05:54.50 | ynezz | i've also ordered advanced so I wonder... |
| 05:56.02 | roh | ynezz the guy found them. just didn't look hard enough the first time |
| 05:57.21 | ynezz | lol |
| 05:57.43 | ynezz | it must be a huge box then... |
| 05:58.00 | ynezz | or he do drugs seriously... |
| 05:58.09 | bradpitcher | haha |
| 05:58.29 | rtm_ | The box is about the size of a lunch pail. |
| 05:59.57 | ynezz | dimensions in something common(like centimeters) would tell me more :) |
| 06:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 06:00.42 | roh | about din-A4 in space and the length of din-A5 high |
| 06:01.11 | xzcvczx | Psi_: you around? |
| 06:01.48 | roh | hm.. propably a bitt less high.... i don't have one here so i can only guess by remembering |
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| 06:04.58 | ynezz | ah, not that big |
| 06:05.25 | roh | its on one of the moko ninjitsu videos |
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| 06:20.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Copenhagen]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[User:Writchie]] |
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| 06:39.37 | bradpitcher | has anyone had a problem with a high-pitched squeal occuring during calls? I'm restoring to /etc/alsa/handset.state before the call but I can't get rid of the squeal |
| 06:45.25 | barmeie1 | hi, I used the MokoMakefile, after comipling the image I tried to use 'make qemu' to compile and run the emulator. But the Makefile complains abot missing rootfs in /home/moko/images. I found them in /home/moko/build/deploy/images must I copy them to /home/moko/images ?? |
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| 07:07.32 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:07.57 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 07:07.58 | bradpitcher | goodnight :) |
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| 07:16.32 | hhf423 | morning |
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| 07:27.43 | adjaxio | Hello |
| 07:27.49 | xkr47 | yo |
| 07:30.24 | hrw | morning |
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| 07:34.42 | paulproteus | Evenin', hrw! |
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| 07:42.34 | guaqua | what kind of network does virgin mobile have in the states? |
| 07:57.46 | *** join/#openmoko squalyl (n=squalyl@139.100.140.131) |
| 07:58.07 | squalyl | hello all :) |
| 07:59.08 | *** join/#openmoko barmeie1 (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-021-174.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 08:02.25 | mjr | It is here! |
| 08:03.27 | FuzzyCat | mine is out for delivery, but no one to accept it... |
| 08:03.47 | FuzzyCat | they change the delivery date early this morning :/ |
| 08:04.16 | xkr47 | mjr, the phone!?! coool |
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| 08:11.08 | Fatal | I still haven't heard back since I sent my YES_I_DO reply :/ |
| 08:12.24 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@adsl-dyn83.91-127-250.t-com.sk) |
| 08:13.00 | squalyl | where can I contact the guy who got openmoko running on an ipaq? |
| 08:13.19 | squalyl | because I have a hx4700... Would be cool to run some tests before getting a neo :) |
| 08:13.40 | zecke | squalyl: nowhere, do it yourself? |
| 08:13.46 | squalyl | thanks :D |
| 08:14.28 | zecke | squalyl: he didn't do more than bitbake openmoko-devel-image with the right machine set (well he did by adding the recipes for om to oe but they are now present) |
| 08:14.47 | squalyl | Do you think changing "fic-gta01" to "hx4700" in local.conf will be sufficient? ^^ |
| 08:14.52 | squalyl | (cross) |
| 08:15.24 | squalyl | OK you're right the only thing to do is "test" |
| 08:15.25 | zecke | squalyl: probably changing distro to angstrom-SOMENUMBER (2007.1 iirc) |
| 08:15.35 | zecke | as well |
| 08:15.38 | squalyl | ok |
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| 08:20.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Francisco]] [[User_talk:Samon007]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Duesseldorf]] |
| 08:21.23 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 08:22.39 | FuzzyCat | mjr, iirc there is no point in doing that |
| 08:25.27 | mjr | FuzzyCat, yes, but that's just me being anal |
| 08:26.13 | guaqua | mjr: where are the photos? |
| 08:26.14 | guaqua | :) |
| 08:26.19 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A565C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:26.22 | mjr | they're uploading into my gallery :þ |
| 08:26.58 | Placid | mornin' |
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| 08:29.20 | mjr | http://mjr.iki.fi/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1772&g2_navId=x3ff9aa2c |
| 08:30.15 | mjr | (yes, the pics suck, but at least I have proof ;) |
| 08:30.31 | florian | hi all |
| 08:32.32 | guaqua | oh, you got the dev pack |
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| 08:37.11 | FuzzyCat | what does it smell like mjr ? |
| 08:37.20 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 08:37.26 | mjr | like... victory |
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| 08:37.32 | FuzzyCat | :) |
| 08:37.39 | FuzzyCat | shit it looks tiny |
| 08:37.41 | mjr | "Starting DFU DOWNLOAD to partition 'kernel' |
| 08:37.48 | FuzzyCat | or you have massive hands |
| 08:38.00 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=rueegseg@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:38.21 | mjr | well, I'm not the smallest guy around |
| 08:38.27 | Placid | FuzzyCat: my thoughts exactly... |
| 08:38.29 | mjr | wouldn't say massive hands tho |
| 08:39.03 | FuzzyCat | mjr, you naked? |
| 08:39.05 | FuzzyCat | http://mjr.iki.fi/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1813&g2_serialNumber=2 |
| 08:39.16 | mjr | not quite :] |
| 08:40.13 | mjr | "Starting DFU DOWNLOAD to partition 'rootfs'" |
| 08:40.32 | FuzzyCat | don't forget to press the aux button every so often |
| 08:40.54 | mjr | it doesn't seem to go off as long as it's up/downloading |
| 08:41.02 | FuzzyCat | ahh good |
| 08:41.15 | FuzzyCat | that case looks tiny too... |
| 08:41.20 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 08:41.23 | FuzzyCat | are you sure you're noy a giant? |
| 08:41.28 | mjr | it's not very big |
| 08:41.32 | mjr | nah, I'm about 183 cm |
| 08:41.38 | mjr | wide |
| 08:41.51 | FuzzyCat | is that one had or 2 ;) |
| 08:41.54 | FuzzyCat | hand |
| 08:42.38 | mjr | hmm, I'm not sure if I can bear to take off the plastic screen cover |
| 08:43.43 | mjr | I might *shudder* touch the screen |
| 08:44.09 | guaqua | touch the touchscreen :) |
| 08:44.22 | mjr | yeah |
| 08:44.25 | mjr | and all would be lost |
| 08:44.53 | mjr | found out incidentally that my TDK bluetooth module has DFU capabilities as well |
| 08:45.02 | mjr | managed not to flash that |
| 08:45.28 | FuzzyCat | my tomtom Go still has it on, and it's 3-4 years old |
| 08:45.48 | FuzzyCat | after the first year you don;t ever want to take it off |
| 08:46.23 | mjr | only a few hashmarks left to go |
| 08:46.35 | FuzzyCat | oeeeeooooww |
| 08:46.46 | FuzzyCat | while you're waiting.. more pics! |
| 08:46.57 | mjr | can't be bothered |
| 08:47.03 | FuzzyCat | hurrumph |
| 08:47.07 | mjr | look at my wedding pics in the gallery if you like ;P |
| 08:47.16 | aloril | they did provide 'link' to wiki, nice |
| 08:47.23 | mjr | aloril, yeah |
| 08:47.30 | FuzzyCat | Bunny rabbit! |
| 08:47.31 | mjr | "some assembly required" |
| 08:48.01 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 08:48.56 | FuzzyCat | is this you mjr http://mjr.iki.fi/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=179&g2_serialNumber=2 |
| 08:49.00 | mjr | the usb plug is a bit tight |
| 08:49.08 | mjr | my Neo is a virgin ♡ |
| 08:49.14 | mjr | yeah |
| 08:50.51 | FuzzyCat | wll, I guess you have the geek beard ;) |
| 08:51.29 | mjr | :] |
| 08:51.32 | mjr | my wife likes it |
| 08:51.42 | mjr | is a bit jealous she can't grow one |
| 08:51.51 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 08:51.53 | mjr | did I mention my Neo is booting? |
| 08:52.16 | FuzzyCat | lol |
| 08:52.23 | FuzzyCat | no, you didn't mention it.. |
| 08:52.38 | FuzzyCat | but if you took pics, you wouldn't have to |
| 08:52.57 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 08:53.07 | FuzzyCat | which image are you using? a self built one? |
| 08:53.14 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:53.28 | mjr | the one from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/latest/ |
| 08:53.40 | FuzzyCat | isn't that old |
| 08:53.54 | mjr | seems so |
| 08:54.09 | FuzzyCat | http://chooseopen.com/openmoko/build/ |
| 08:54.43 | mjr | bugger, wasted a flash cycle |
| 08:54.50 | mjr | now my phone is going to trash fast |
| 08:55.23 | FuzzyCat | :o |
| 08:55.53 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A565C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:56.10 | *** join/#openmoko alUrdun_ (n=jordan@64.180.94.253) |
| 08:56.11 | aloril | um... didn't they provide new images? at least laf0rge edited SH1 page with link http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/?C=M;O=D |
| 08:57.00 | aloril | 28-Jul-2007 08:37 31M |
| 08:57.26 | mjr | so it's just the latest that's broken... |
| 08:59.21 | mjr | well, reflashing |
| 08:59.31 | mjr | I wonder if those images can actually make a call ;) |
| 08:59.38 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@68.Red-213-98-140.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:59.50 | aloril | hmm.. u-boot: smdk2440, qt2410, hxd8, gta02v1, gta01bv4, gta01bv3 and gta01bv2 |
| 09:00.00 | mjr | FuzzyCat, I meant that I'm shortening the flash life |
| 09:00.04 | aloril | so what are smdk2440 and qt2410? |
| 09:00.16 | mjr | Though what with uboot not being flashed too often and it being able to boot from sd... |
| 09:00.30 | XorA | aloril: dev boards for s3c24X0 cpus |
| 09:00.36 | sannes | when I woke up this morning .... there was a neo at my door :) |
| 09:00.39 | XorA | aloril: I have an smdk2440 beside me |
| 09:00.50 | aloril | XorA: ah, OK, thanks |
| 09:00.55 | jgm | mjr: this neo only has a lifetime of about 6 months anyway so don't worry too much about the flash :) |
| 09:01.12 | aloril | so no new devices revealed, only previously 'revealed' hxd8 |
| 09:01.13 | hads | Not really |
| 09:01.29 | cxreg | for those of you with a phone, is it reasonable to try and use it as a real phone yet? or still too unstable? |
| 09:01.30 | mjr | jgm, my wife does intend to take it off my hands when I upgrade |
| 09:01.31 | *** join/#openmoko write_erase (n=olivier@81.80.156.36) |
| 09:02.02 | mjr | by the by, I'm positively surprised about its speed. It's not blazing, but I expected worse. |
| 09:02.17 | hads | cool |
| 09:02.41 | jgm | mjr: if we can get some pretty graphics thanks to the graphics accelerator and some usability in there from the accelerometers I can see that changing |
| 09:02.47 | XorA | cxreg: no |
| 09:03.58 | XorA | rock paper scissors via accellorometer |
| 09:04.21 | cxreg | gps + accel could make for some fun real world gaming |
| 09:04.25 | mjr | I mean, gotten used to the usual s60 sluggishness, my quick test says Neo's not worse |
| 09:05.08 | aloril | in theory you could make GTA01B_v04 fly really fast.. but would need to sacrifice some chrome tough |
| 09:05.19 | write_erase | Any news from "GTA02" ? Will there be some sales before October mass market ? |
| 09:05.30 | mjr | haha |
| 09:05.44 | mjr | umm, I doubt it |
| 09:06.11 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 09:07.03 | write_erase | mjr, still no Wifi chipset in the current releases ? |
| 09:07.06 | mjr | you know, I have in this process found a killer need for usb2 on the neo |
| 09:07.16 | mjr | the flashing before getting into action takes toooo long |
| 09:07.21 | mjr | *sigh* |
| 09:07.39 | mjr | it's _always_ been no wifi in gta01 |
| 09:07.53 | write_erase | ok, I'll wait |
| 09:07.54 | aloril | wifi? |
| 09:07.55 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 09:09.06 | mjr | newsflash: I've reflashed the device |
| 09:10.26 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:10.56 | mjr | hehehe bt initialized |
| 09:11.39 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-212-102.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 09:11.51 | mjr | it asked for pin! |
| 09:13.24 | Psi_ | <xzcvczx> Psi_: you around? <--- am now |
| 09:16.06 | Dmitry_Platonov | mjr: did you have sim in it? |
| 09:16.08 | mjr | what was the magic for getting suitable mixer settings for making a call? |
| 09:16.09 | mjr | yes |
| 09:16.30 | FuzzyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:16.31 | FuzzyCat | ? |
| 09:16.33 | mjr | yes |
| 09:16.38 | FuzzyCat | :D |
| 09:16.42 | mjr | and I _think_ I made a call, though without sound |
| 09:17.36 | FuzzyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem |
| 09:18.58 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:21.00 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.205.8) |
| 09:22.26 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczxx (n=nosdr4g@ip-58-28-142-78.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 09:22.26 | PSy0rz | set query |
| 09:22.34 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 09:22.56 | xzcvczxx | Psi_: what does the tracking for yours say? mine still says Status: Pickup |
| 09:22.56 | aloril | xzcvczxx: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 09:24.32 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 09:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 09:25.32 | Psi_ | xzcvczx, mine has been stuck on security check for 23 hours |
| 09:25.40 | Psi_ | but ill check again now, may have changed |
| 09:26.38 | xzcvczxx | Psi_: are you able to pm me the link for the tracking just so i can see how detailed it is... dont worry i wont run over to your house when i see its delivered to steal it :P |
| 09:26.47 | Psi_ | hehe |
| 09:26.56 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 09:27.30 | FuzzyCat | why do you think I am fuzzy |
| 09:27.53 | FuzzyCat | seem my awesome pawah!! |
| 09:27.58 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 09:28.03 | Psi_ | xzcvczx, pm |
| 09:28.09 | Psi_ | err |
| 09:28.12 | Psi_ | wrong person |
| 09:28.30 | Psi_ | ah |
| 09:28.42 | xzcvczx | lol you may have to try pm'ing me the address again if you have already done it as i had to ghost the nick |
| 09:28.43 | Psi_ | xzcvczx, did you get my PM |
| 09:28.50 | Psi_ | ok |
| 09:29.19 | xzcvczx | so no i didnt |
| 09:29.30 | Psi_ | resent |
| 09:30.07 | xzcvczx | hmmm its taking its time |
| 09:30.18 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (i=me@nat/ibm/x-309e13310e9503c0) |
| 09:30.20 | rtyler | anybody know about what RT # they're up to yet? :P |
| 09:30.22 | Psi_ | you PM me |
| 09:30.29 | Psi_ | maybe that will start it correctly |
| 09:30.44 | FuzzyCat | are you registered? |
| 09:30.48 | xzcvczx | i am |
| 09:30.48 | FuzzyCat | with nickserv? |
| 09:30.50 | xzcvczx | and logged in |
| 09:30.59 | Psi_ | ah, no |
| 09:31.02 | xzcvczx | oh lol |
| 09:31.03 | Psi_ | forgot about that |
| 09:31.06 | Psi_ | im used to undernet |
| 09:31.43 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno2 (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 09:31.55 | Psi_ | PM me your email, ill send it to you |
| 09:32.42 | xzcvczx | are you in auckland as well? |
| 09:33.22 | Psi_ | sent |
| 09:33.23 | Psi_ | yes |
| 09:33.26 | Psi_ | mt eden |
| 09:33.30 | xzcvczx | ah ok |
| 09:34.01 | Psi_ | its about now we find out we are living next door.... |
| 09:34.06 | Psi_ | :P |
| 09:34.16 | xzcvczx | nah im CBD |
| 09:35.51 | Psi_ | i could pull out the 200mW red laser and pulse you the URL in morse code on the skytower :P |
| 09:35.56 | xzcvczx | well at least yours has got further than mine |
| 09:36.01 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 09:36.41 | xzcvczx | would be wrong angle im down on high st |
| 09:37.48 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore_ (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:38.02 | Psi_ | what does your tracking look like? |
| 09:38.08 | Psi_ | just the first pickup scan? |
| 09:38.35 | xzcvczx | yeah |
| 09:38.39 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 09:39.17 | Psi_ | mine has been sitting at pkg-delay security check bla bla bla for yeah, ~24hours |
| 09:39.36 | xzcvczx | Psi_: which is weird as its export |
| 09:39.48 | xzcvczx | unless they are scared its a bomb or something |
| 09:39.52 | xzcvczx | did you get base or advanced |
| 09:39.54 | Psi_ | im not even sure they continue to track it once it leaves US, and it may already have done that since the security check probably was an XRAY at the airport just before intl flight |
| 09:40.24 | Psi_ | so i could already be in NZ, who knows |
| 09:40.28 | ewon | I'm moving to the US next month, I can't wait to encounter US immigration |
| 09:40.35 | xzcvczx | Psi_: well fedex's is better they tell you like airport,plane,airport,depot,delivery |
| 09:40.46 | xzcvczx | ewon: just hope your not on the no-fly list |
| 09:41.02 | ewon | xzcvczx: well I've been there once before, but only short-term |
| 09:41.06 | Psi_ | they should give you a world map with the points plotted on it, that would look way cooler :P |
| 09:41.24 | ewon | one of the guys on my team did get detained for a few hours, but he made the mistake of having a Morrocan dad. |
| 09:41.27 | xzcvczx | Psi_: some websites do that from UPS on google maps |
| 09:42.15 | xzcvczx | how long was yours sitting at pickup scan for? like right up until the exception? |
| 09:42.27 | xzcvczx | as in did they all pop up at once |
| 09:42.58 | Psi_ | um.. first i saw it had 3 scans and then quickly moved to where it is now |
| 09:43.06 | FuzzyCat | there's a company in the uk that allows you to track exactly where your package is... |
| 09:43.30 | cjb_ie | that the crowd that gave their GPS logs to openstreetmap? ecourier? |
| 09:43.38 | FuzzyCat | ya |
| 09:44.06 | FuzzyCat | and they have good interfaces too, if you use them.. |
| 09:45.06 | ewon | heh, couriers who are not ignorant fuckwits. Didn't know such a creature existed. |
| 09:45.07 | FuzzyCat | http://api.ecourier.co.uk/ |
| 09:46.05 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2561 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkbutton: * Fix button label colours |
| 09:46.18 | mjr | wohoo, I placed a call, via libgsmd-tool |
| 09:46.26 | FuzzyCat | with audip? |
| 09:46.35 | mjr | audip? |
| 09:46.39 | FuzzyCat | s/audip/audio |
| 09:46.39 | ewon | audio |
| 09:46.43 | hads | ewon: Nice attitude |
| 09:46.58 | ewon | hads: long, hard experience. |
| 09:47.15 | mjr | ye, with audio, though quite too much of it. The phone shouted a high-pitched noise at me and we could barely make each other out |
| 09:47.24 | hads | Your experience in your part of the world. |
| 09:47.25 | aloril | its about 3AM at San Fransisco |
| 09:47.43 | mjr | I loaded gsmhandset.state before that |
| 09:48.06 | mjr | wonder what the issue is, it was like really severe sound loop |
| 09:48.07 | Psi_ | its 9:47pm monday here |
| 09:48.25 | mjr | but! it made a call |
| 09:48.47 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 09:49.32 | aloril | xzcvczx: so it could be some hours before it moves, but maybe not long, I guess it could move even at 5AM |
| 09:50.48 | Psi_ | xzcvczx, strange that you dont have "BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED" |
| 09:50.58 | Psi_ | i got that before the pickup scan |
| 09:51.09 | *** join/#openmoko jserv2 (n=jserv@linux3.cc.ntu.edu.tw) |
| 09:51.14 | SpeedEvil | mjr: the codec has 99.99% of ways to arrange the mixer which don't produce sound usefully :) |
| 09:51.36 | XorA | mjr: change lm4857 mode to not have stereo speakers |
| 09:51.45 | SpeedEvil | alesan: cut hsync or vsync |
| 09:51.52 | mjr | SpeedEvil, yes I've seen how complex it is but I figured by loading that I should be in a "known safe" mode :] |
| 09:51.56 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 09:52.11 | XorA | mjr: when I made that state file I was using a Neo with broken speakers so I had to use the stereo ones, I obviously forgot to disable them after I finished |
| 09:52.21 | mjr | :D |
| 09:52.30 | Dmitry_Platonov | mjr, what about GUI dialer? |
| 09:52.42 | XorA | stereo speakers are right beside mic, so feedback like a biaaaatch |
| 09:52.56 | mjr | XorA, yeah, I know. That _would_ explain it |
| 09:53.29 | mjr | gui dialer I think placed a call at least once but with no audio |
| 09:53.35 | mjr | not even feedbacked |
| 09:53.52 | mjr | anyway, off to work now, and taking the sim with me |
| 09:54.14 | mjr | will have to get a cheap prepaid for neo testing until I can use it as my real phone :) |
| 09:54.50 | SpeedEvil | mjr: you don't need to do that. Just get playing an mp3 down the line when someone calls you saying 'this phone is temporarily out of service :) |
| 09:54.59 | xzcvczx | Psi_: yeah was thinking that |
| 09:55.21 | mjr | now where _is_ my real phone... |
| 09:55.21 | Psi_ | i suspect they are just lazy with the scanning :P |
| 09:56.19 | *** join/#openmoko __law__ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 09:58.11 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 09:59.13 | xzcvczx | Psi_: yeah one of my mates was saying it didnt say anything til it had been delivered and all got put up then |
| 09:59.24 | xzcvczx | so it was saying hwere it had been so not very useful |
| 09:59.30 | ScaredyCat | arrrgh "THE RECEIVER WAS UNAVAILABLE TO SIGN ON THE 1ST DELIVERY ATTEMPT. A 2ND DELIVERY ATTEMPT WILL BE MADE" |
| 09:59.48 | ScaredyCat | that's because you changed the f'ing delivery date you gimps |
| 10:00.02 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 10:00.43 | ScaredyCat | now I know what the 'U' is for in UPS |
| 10:00.56 | xzcvczx | useless pack of shits |
| 10:01.09 | ScaredyCat | aye |
| 10:01.14 | xzcvczx | ups |
| 10:01.27 | mjr | (yay, usbnet and sshing in works) |
| 10:01.33 | mjr | had weird problems at first but turns out it was just that I run the ipmasq package on this host |
| 10:01.36 | mjr | and it had set up some funky iptables |
| 10:01.52 | mjr | anyway, more of that later, now to work |
| 10:02.17 | mjr | (from where I might or might not ssh into the phone to play around anyway) |
| 10:02.23 | SpeedEvil | Do UPS fly all their europe-bound stuff from the east coast? |
| 10:03.54 | cjb_ie | i thought they had a hub somewhere central-ish - chicago or detroit maybe? |
| 10:04.17 | aloril | at least 2 packets destined to Finland flied/flying from LOUISVILLE, KY, US |
| 10:04.44 | mjr | I think you mean mine too, 'cause it did |
| 10:05.00 | mjr | after a trip via Sunnyvale and San Jose, CA |
| 10:05.16 | aloril | mjr: yup and mine is currently flying from LOUISVILLE to KOELN, DE |
| 10:05.43 | XorA | all neo should come with redbull then they can deliver themselves |
| 10:06.02 | SpeedEvil | 'mine' (group order) went from Sunnyvale to Oakland, then to Philidelphia. |
| 10:06.15 | aloril | hmm.. mine did go via Oakland, CA, US, not San Jose, CA |
| 10:06.37 | SpeedEvil | Where it's currently sitting. |
| 10:06.53 | mjr | yep, mine went from Louisville to Köln too, then to Helsinki via Stockholm |
| 10:07.40 | mjr | oh yeah, one more check before leaving |
| 10:08.28 | mjr | it _does_ attach somewhat comfortably to the spring-loaded hinge of my freedom mini keyboard |
| 10:10.24 | kiney_ | counter |
| 10:10.24 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in 2 days 00:54:48 (2.038±2.0 days) (1784;251) |
| 10:11.54 | SpeedEvil | Oh - it's still in transit to Philidelphia - they just updated the 'arrival scan' field. Hmm. I suppose that means it got moved truck. |
| 10:12.28 | FuzzyCat | mine's travelled so far it's got more air miles than me. |
| 10:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 10:12.59 | ewon | FuzzyCat: nice :) |
| 10:14.13 | aloril | it looks like all of SH1 has shipped by now according to [[P1_Owners]] page |
| 10:14.24 | SpeedEvil | You mean the first 1K? |
| 10:14.46 | aloril | no, first 500 |
| 10:14.53 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 10:14.59 | aloril | unless I'm mistaken about SH1==first 500 |
| 10:15.18 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ACC89.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:15.22 | cesarb | aloril: no, SH1 is the first 1000 and possibly even more |
| 10:15.34 | aloril | cesarb: OK |
| 10:15.40 | cesarb | aloril: SH1 = first _logical_ shipment, which can be more than a single physical one |
| 10:15.49 | cesarb | aloril: it's right there in the intro to the wiki page |
| 10:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic_ (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:16.16 | cesarb | aloril: (the thing they have in common is the bugs you will have to work around) |
| 10:16.34 | aloril | yeah, I did read that in past, I just thought it would be first 500 ;-) |
| 10:16.56 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 10:17.15 | aloril | anyway, I think first 500 have shipped by now |
| 10:17.21 | SpeedEvil | 2540-1820=720 |
| 10:17.48 | SpeedEvil | 720/500=.69 orders per ticket |
| 10:17.54 | aloril | next 500 are from Canada supposedly |
| 10:18.10 | aloril | and #2540 is at California at the moment |
| 10:18.36 | SpeedEvil | That would make 1851 sold as of the 27th |
| 10:19.00 | SpeedEvil | Assuming that the first bactch was 500 |
| 10:19.10 | SpeedEvil | And that the dropout rate doesn't change. |
| 10:19.16 | SpeedEvil | Which may be pessimistic. |
| 10:19.36 | aloril | well.. when did warning go up? |
| 10:19.53 | SpeedEvil | dunno |
| 10:20.32 | *** topic/#openmoko by aloril -> wiki.openmoko.org | Store: www.openmoko.com | Received Neo1973? See [[SH1]] | first 500 units shipped? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008010.html | If you have hardware: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Unresolved_Hardware_Questions |
| 10:20.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ruggedized]] [[OpenMokoFramework]] |
| 10:20.54 | aloril | only those who ordered before warning at order page got warning mail |
| 10:22.03 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - I think it's probably safe to say that it's higher than 1851 |
| 10:22.23 | SpeedEvil | If the first assumptions hold |
| 10:23.30 | mjr | so there, got a prepaid testing sim |
| 10:23.40 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 10:23.45 | SpeedEvil | Does it work? |
| 10:24.37 | _diego__ | i have ticket number 3854, but i'm still waiting for the order to be processed |
| 10:24.56 | mjr | I'll have to see later tonight, now I gotta do other stuff |
| 10:29.32 | aloril | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:30.37 | squalyl`away | <mode="nioob"> is SDL ported to openmoko? </mode> |
| 10:31.32 | mjr | yes |
| 10:31.45 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFFA76.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:32.24 | squalyl`away | OK (it's still in the wishlist) |
| 10:33.49 | daxxar | Vegar: Where in Norway are you? |
| 10:33.55 | Vegar | daxxar: Alta |
| 10:34.01 | Vegar | far from you |
| 10:34.50 | daxxar | Vegar: You should register on the norway-local group. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups#EU |
| 10:35.52 | Vegar | didn't know about that one |
| 10:36.12 | Vegar | (studying electronics)? |
| 10:36.21 | daxxar | Yes |
| 10:36.33 | daxxar | Well, you're not as far from me as I am from my hometown. ;-) |
| 10:36.44 | daxxar | I'm currently starting my second year of EE |
| 10:36.53 | daxxar | (Sivilingeniør Elektronikk, NTNU) |
| 10:37.02 | aloril | squalyl`away: http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages |
| 10:37.44 | Vegar | daxxar: I'm starting on my first year, Ingeniør Elektronikk |
| 10:37.47 | Vegar | daxxar: HiN |
| 10:37.54 | daxxar | Cool, that's a master? |
| 10:38.01 | Vegar | bachelor |
| 10:38.08 | daxxar | Okay. :-) |
| 10:38.12 | Vegar | but I can get a master later on |
| 10:38.29 | daxxar | I wish I had the option to take a bachelor, to be honest |
| 10:38.50 | Vegar | yeah, five years sounds a bit overwhelming |
| 10:38.52 | daxxar | They're usually a bit more centered on practical courses. |
| 10:39.04 | daxxar | (which would help when getting started) |
| 10:39.14 | Vegar | yeah |
| 10:39.23 | daxxar | Anwyay, now i've started, so I've just got to do my best ;P |
| 10:39.44 | daxxar | Brb, prep some slices of bread. |
| 10:39.49 | Vegar | I like the option to get the master later |
| 10:40.47 | Vegar | I can do the three years, work a bit and then get a master |
| 10:41.00 | SpeedEvil | 'To find out what over 50 million people are talking about, right now we have a great value offer to get you started. It includes: |
| 10:41.02 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:41.04 | SpeedEvil | err - no. |
| 10:41.12 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 10:41.17 | SpeedEvil | O2.co.uk |
| 10:42.19 | XorA | only 5Meg, bloody hell, thats like 10 seconds |
| 10:42.52 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2562 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/ (23 files in 5 dirs): * Update openmoko-calculator for OM-2007.2 |
| 10:44.21 | SpeedEvil | And note the low-low normal price! |
| 10:44.25 | Vegar | daxxar: registered |
| 10:44.35 | SpeedEvil | Wacky. |
| 10:44.51 | SpeedEvil | I've just spent 30 min on their site looking for personal data tarrifs. |
| 10:44.54 | SpeedEvil | They don't have them. |
| 10:45.17 | SpeedEvil | At least according to the website. |
| 10:45.49 | daxxar | Vegar: True |
| 10:45.50 | daxxar | (back) |
| 10:46.12 | aevin | Vegar: let me know before you order your phone as I (and others) may join you in a group order. okay? |
| 10:46.27 | Vegar | will do |
| 10:46.34 | aevin | Vegar: i read in the backlog you were waiting for a GTA02. |
| 10:46.40 | daxxar | SpeedEvil: Should've lived in norway. £1/mb, no monthly charge, no registration fee, 90min/month free and 120sms/month free. :-P |
| 10:46.59 | Vegar | I might order it via England |
| 10:47.06 | Vegar | if it turns out to be cheaper |
| 10:47.22 | daxxar | aevin: If you need a test-subscription for your phone, go for OneCall Faktura/Kontant. :-) |
| 10:47.25 | Vegar | to avoid the mva in Norway |
| 10:47.34 | daxxar | Oh, you tax-cheat you! |
| 10:47.44 | daxxar | I feel used. :-( |
| 10:47.45 | aevin | daxxar: i'll take note of that. thanks for the tip. |
| 10:48.13 | daxxar | It's not what I have on my main phone, but since it has ~no costs at all attached to it for a test phone, it seems to be ideal. |
| 10:48.20 | daxxar | (I ordered a SIM for when my GTA01 arrives) |
| 10:48.46 | daxxar | D'ya know if "Henrikw" from the wiki hangs on IRC |
| 10:49.02 | daxxar | ? |
| 10:49.17 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: Virgin AIUI are cheapest. PAYG, and a pound a day for unlimited GPRS |
| 10:49.20 | aevin | no, I don't know him. |
| 10:49.23 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 10:49.40 | daxxar | Okay. |
| 10:49.48 | daxxar | SpeedEvil: Sounds nice :-) |
| 10:49.58 | daxxar | Esp. for GPRS-testing ;-) |
| 10:50.36 | SpeedEvil | Their buisness (O2) data for groups is not actually insane. |
| 10:51.06 | SpeedEvil | If we got together a group buy. The problem is of course the problem of someone being silly. |
| 10:51.50 | Vegar | aevin: we might even do a group-order via my contact in the UK |
| 10:52.07 | SpeedEvil | For a group of 10 users - it's 18/mo for 1G/mo (unused data rolls over for 3 months) |
| 10:52.08 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 10:52.50 | SpeedEvil | err - 23 |
| 10:53.21 | robtaylor | SpeedEvil: per user? |
| 10:53.50 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 10:53.59 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 10:54.09 | SpeedEvil | That's a point - if it's over the group, it's not really usefull. |
| 10:56.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2563 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/ (22 files in 8 dirs): |
| 10:56.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * import panel plugins into OM-2007.2 |
| 10:56.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * remove qmake build system leftovers |
| 10:56.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * fix build system to use libmokopanelui2 |
| 10:56.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03chris * r2564 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-store.c): Make TodayEventsStore make the description correctly and update on changes |
| 10:57.54 | PSy0rz | is that cia bot downloadable somewhere? :) |
| 10:58.05 | daxxar | It's "requestable" |
| 10:58.49 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2565 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): * configure.ac: Update for OM 2007.2 library names |
| 10:58.50 | *** join/#openmoko rschuster (n=rob@vpn.tarent.de) |
| 10:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:00.01 | rschuster | what is the easiest way to get shell access to the qemu-emulated neo1973 (apart from the terminal app)? in other word are there other options besides the gadgetfs way? |
| 11:00.01 | aloril | rschuster: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:01.48 | squalyl | I think it's here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu |
| 11:03.57 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|laptop (n=rob_w@p549B9A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:05.08 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2566 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 11:05.08 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/dialer-main.c: |
| 11:05.08 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-dialer.c: |
| 11:05.11 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-history.c: |
| 11:05.13 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-history.h: |
| 11:05.15 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-keypad.c: |
| 11:05.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/moko-talking.c: |
| 11:06.20 | *** join/#openmoko b1303s (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-61baa4e5fe821400) |
| 11:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-219.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:07.06 | squalyl | Is there something on openmoko wishlist (or elsewhere) like kcolourpaint? |
| 11:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-219.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:08.51 | zecke_ | squalyl: I think tuxpaint will just work? |
| 11:10.26 | squalyl | ok |
| 11:10.30 | mmazur | I'd like quake2. |
| 11:10.51 | ewon | mmazur: will probably require GTA02 |
| 11:11.04 | mmazur | :( |
| 11:12.14 | ewon | mmazur: at a guess; fic 1973 is only a 100mhz processor |
| 11:12.17 | ewon | iirc |
| 11:12.32 | florian | ewon: no |
| 11:12.32 | ewon | mmazur: it'll be out in october, not too far away :) |
| 11:12.35 | ewon | florian: no? |
| 11:12.41 | rwhitby | GTA01 is 266MHz |
| 11:12.46 | ewon | ah, apologies |
| 11:13.00 | rwhitby | It just feels like 100 ;-) |
| 11:13.18 | ewon | I'm not sure it's up for software rendering of something like q2 |
| 11:13.24 | Elrond | mickeyl - Can you consider letting buildhost build openmoko-panel-mainmenu, but not include it in the image? |
| 11:13.38 | SpeedEvil | ewon: consider the size of the screen. |
| 11:14.11 | SpeedEvil | ewon: rendering at 160*213 or so. |
| 11:14.19 | ewon | SpeedEvil: good point |
| 11:14.35 | SpeedEvil | Which is 100dpi - the same as most current monitors. |
| 11:15.24 | mickeyl | Elrond: for the new stuff? |
| 11:17.30 | Elrond | mickeyl - Well, only build the old openmoko-panel-mainmenu. Maybe someone ports it to the new stuff. |
| 11:18.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2567 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/ (7 files in 7 dirs): OM-2007.2 panel plugins need to include libmokopanelui2/moko-panel-applet.h |
| 11:19.04 | mickeyl | Elrond: ok, will remember that. it needs a bit of porting, but i'll make it available. |
| 11:19.41 | mickeyl | Elrond: we're right within adding the new stuff. I'm giving you a note once it makes sense to launch a build |
| 11:20.35 | Elrond | mickeyl - No panic. There's more important stuff, I knoew that. :) |
| 11:20.50 | mickeyl | :) |
| 11:23.07 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A55F21.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:29.29 | *** join/#openmoko Zaireeka_ (n=jamie@88-109-236-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 11:29.35 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-195-138.netcologne.de) |
| 11:30.23 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Do you happen to have whatever output your tool outputs from longtrace laying around? I want to try more statistics. |
| 11:31.13 | Elrond | mickeyl, stefan_schmidt - BTW: We mostt likely found the doppler shift setting on the HH yesterday with SpeedEvil's help. :-) |
| 11:31.41 | mickeyl | wow, cooL! |
| 11:31.53 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:31.53 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - No. It's at home. (I'm at work). I'll bzip2 the 100MB thing and upload it. :-) |
| 11:32.10 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/gps.gif three satellite 'dopplers' as suspected in the strace output - compared with three predicted from orbits doppler. |
| 11:32.18 | SpeedEvil | A pretty nice match. |
| 11:32.41 | SpeedEvil | Not perfect yet. |
| 11:32.57 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: k |
| 11:33.09 | mjr | you're starting to get doppler data from the chip? :) |
| 11:33.11 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond, SpeedEvil: Cool. |
| 11:33.20 | SpeedEvil | mjr: not quite. |
| 11:33.26 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - But it'll take till the evening. My box at jome is off. ;-) |
| 11:33.37 | SpeedEvil | mjr: the doppler setting is to set the doppler setting in the chip - it's not reading it out. |
| 11:33.48 | Elrond | mjr - No, the other way round: We can confiure the doppler on the chip. ;-) |
| 11:33.49 | mjr | ah, oops, strace output |
| 11:33.49 | SpeedEvil | mjr: it's what gllin sets. |
| 11:33.58 | mjr | oh |
| 11:34.26 | SpeedEvil | But conversely - that means that given known doppler settings - and we know them as we know the orbits - we can set the doppler exactly right - more or less - per chip. |
| 11:34.30 | SpeedEvil | per satellite. |
| 11:34.34 | Elrond | mjr - sphyrna's library section has things to set the doppler on the chip. |
| 11:34.38 | *** part/#openmoko BryceLeo|Asleep (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 11:34.39 | SpeedEvil | which may help a little with downloading. |
| 11:35.38 | mjr | and these dopplers, which car manufacturer makes them? |
| 11:35.44 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 11:36.25 | Elrond | Next plan is to draw peakheight/RealIntegrationTime over 'Doppler' for neo-in-the-graden and neo-on-the-metall-box ;-) |
| 11:36.58 | Elrond | s/over/versus |
| 11:37.13 | Elrond | s/on-/in- |
| 11:37.19 | Elrond | Oh well, my typing is bad today. |
| 11:37.35 | Vegar | graden/garden? |
| 11:37.44 | Elrond | Vegar - Yes, yes. |
| 11:39.02 | ewon | anyone have an email contact for laforge? I tried emailing laforge@openmoko.org but it bounced |
| 11:39.24 | Elrond | openmoko.com? |
| 11:39.30 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: We have: How to setup the chip initially. How to set per-satellite doppler. How to setup the integrators and read back peak height versus correlator bin. We're lacking the exact way that the navigation bits are extracted. And perhaps the way to align the correlation process with the incoming symbol rate. |
| 11:39.39 | stefan_schmidt | ewon: ouch, it should work |
| 11:39.42 | SpeedEvil | Though much of this is not understood in detail. |
| 11:40.20 | ewon | stefan_schmidt: it seems to relay it to a hmw-consulting.de address, which timed out |
| 11:40.23 | SpeedEvil | This alone is probably enough to extract a position roughly, using 'transit' techniques. |
| 11:40.33 | stefan_schmidt | ewon: hmm, ok |
| 11:40.37 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - We lack "how to detect "sat is really there" vs. "artefact of the chip". ;-) |
| 11:40.45 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 11:40.45 | stefan_schmidt | ewon: perhaps a tmp problem |
| 11:40.45 | SpeedEvil | Ah :) |
| 11:41.24 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 11:42.37 | SpeedEvil | Transit: 'Calculating the optimal receiver location was not a trivial exercise. The navigation software used the satellite's motion to compute a 'trial' doppler curve, based on an initial 'trial' location for the receiver. The software would then perform a least squares curve fit for each two-minute section of the doppler curve, recursively moving the trial position until the trial doppler curve 'most closely' matched the actual doppler receive |
| 11:42.50 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I plotted peakheight versus doppler. And there is lots of structure in there. For example, there is a maximum at 'Doppler'==0 for all sats. |
| 11:43.44 | SpeedEvil | It would be interesting to see what the peak height does as it goes through 0 naturally |
| 11:44.08 | Elrond | Ahh, good idea. |
| 11:45.05 | Elrond | Well, I did all this before finding RealIntegrationTime. So I really should look at PeakHeight/RealIntegrationTime. |
| 11:47.49 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 11:48.20 | aevin | is the gllin a final (full-featured) binary blob, or is it still a work-in-progress that GL works on? |
| 11:48.33 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ACC89.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:48.44 | SpeedEvil | It is supposed to be a full-featured blob. |
| 11:48.57 | SpeedEvil | However, at best, there are some problems with it. |
| 11:49.12 | SpeedEvil | It also does not integrate all the possible functions. |
| 11:50.23 | aevin | okay. |
| 11:50.29 | Vegar | so it's crap? |
| 11:50.45 | Elrond | Vegar - Well, it works. |
| 11:51.44 | SpeedEvil | It works. Mostly. There have been reports of odd behaviour from it. |
| 11:52.25 | Elrond | Although it is hard to say, where the weakest point in the chain is. |
| 11:53.42 | squalyl | is openmoko-rssreader still broken? |
| 11:53.50 | aevin | hmm. mokoninja has added three more videos on youtube (1 day ago). |
| 11:54.17 | Elrond | Ahhh. |
| 11:56.55 | squalyl | what sort of fix is imaginable to get around these openmoko-rssreader problems? it complains about webkit (in the last SVN rev #2520) |
| 12:00.36 | Elrond | Vegar - "There's always room for improvement"(citing a collegue). And gllin will be the only working solution for a long time. We're making progress in the reverse engineering, but it's going slow. |
| 12:00.44 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, what about coldstart.py? I'd like to see traces. Once PRN lock is done, we can concentrate on NAV message |
| 12:01.02 | Vegar | Elrond: of course |
| 12:02.04 | stefan_schmidt | squalyl: Last svn rev is 2567 and the rss-reader build should have a workaround |
| 12:02.06 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Read above: I still have no idea on how to detect "sat is there" versus "artefact by the chip". When we have thtt, I'll write a scanner. |
| 12:02.19 | stefan_schmidt | squalyl: Make sure sur you use the last revision |
| 12:04.04 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - "artefacts by the chip": I can easily create a 0xfff for the neo being in a metall box. ;-) |
| 12:05.42 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:05.42 | mokobot | Hello Lord |
| 12:06.10 | Elrond | mokobot - And why don't you bow in front of an elvenlord? ;o) |
| 12:06.33 | *** join/#openmoko balthama1steri (n=balthama@statip-80-246-144-24.kopteri.net) |
| 12:07.36 | Sup3rkiddo | Elrond, he is my slave..muhahah' |
| 12:07.45 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, is it persistent? |
| 12:07.56 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Yes. |
| 12:08.09 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - I have a nice max at prn==1, 'Doppler'=-243200 |
| 12:09.09 | Elrond | And there are lots of smaller max in the correlator-peak-height versus doppler. |
| 12:09.19 | Elrond | s/max/maxima/ |
| 12:11.00 | Dmitry_Platonov | maybe metal box is not enough shielding? also, we might consider "actual integration time": lesser time -> more signal strength |
| 12:11.38 | SpeedEvil | As a first cut, I'd try wrapping in several layers of foil. |
| 12:11.50 | SpeedEvil | While running a logging app. |
| 12:12.10 | Elrond | metal box: It's a 2mm thick metal box. It really should be enough. |
| 12:12.25 | SpeedEvil | What are the seals like? |
| 12:13.13 | Elrond | Hmm, I doubt even air can get in there easily. |
| 12:13.23 | Dmitry_Platonov | caimed sensitivity of chip is 160 dB/mW, and open-sky signal is, I believe, 190 dB/mW |
| 12:13.27 | Elrond | I'll put my mobile in there and try calling it. ;o) |
| 12:13.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | s/caimed/claimed/ |
| 12:14.10 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - claimed is -160dB*something* (sign!) |
| 12:14.41 | Dmitry_Platonov | yeah, read -160 and -190 respectively 8) |
| 12:15.00 | Elrond | Well, -190 would be unmeasureable then. |
| 12:15.25 | Dmitry_Platonov | hmm. yeas, It was -160 dB/W, so -130 dB/mW |
| 12:15.29 | Dmitry_Platonov | my bad. |
| 12:15.35 | *** join/#openmoko ka05 (n=grim@91.186.12.189) |
| 12:16.03 | Dmitry_Platonov | -160 db/W - open-sky SNR |
| 12:16.36 | squalyl | stefan_schmidt: I still had "srcdate=20070720" in my preferred version. I restored to "now" |
| 12:17.03 | stefan_schmidt | squalyl: No will break |
| 12:17.13 | stefan_schmidt | squalyl: You need the fixed version |
| 12:17.26 | squalyl | what date? 20070720? |
| 12:17.43 | stefan_schmidt | squalyl: the dep on webkit will only start working in OE.dev |
| 12:18.00 | stefan_schmidt | squalyl: If that one did not work try 20070719 |
| 12:18.13 | Dmitry_Platonov | Ok. Open-sky snr = -160 dB/W = -190 dB/mW. Chip sensitivity = -160 dB/mW = -190 dB/W |
| 12:18.36 | Dmitry_Platonov | ahh |
| 12:18.53 | squalyl | stefan_schmidt: OK I'm restarting build now. |
| 12:19.46 | Dmitry_Platonov | end of working day here - and I can't think. Obliviously I messed somewhere. |
| 12:20.18 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - That numbers still look confusing to me. But anyway: sirf3 cliaims -159dB*something* And it's close to lost in my room, not to mentio the metal box. ;-) |
| 12:20.20 | Dmitry_Platonov | Ok. Open-sky snr = -160 dB/W = -130 dB/mW. Chip sensitivity = -160 dB/mW = -190 dB/W |
| 12:20.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Devirginator/it]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Dfu-util]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_London]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Netherlands]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[Clocks]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] |
| 12:22.56 | *** join/#openmoko molkko (n=username@a84-231-232-237.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:25.26 | *** join/#openmoko Imitation (n=imitatio@W1789.w.pppool.de) |
| 12:27.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2568 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/ (openmoko-calculator/ openmoko-calculator2/): openmoko-calculator -> openmoko-calculator2 |
| 12:27.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2569 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/ (openmoko-dialer/ openmoko-dialer2/): openmoko-dialer -> openmoko-dialer2 |
| 12:27.56 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, numbers looks confusing too me too. I'm not radio specialist anyway. |
| 12:28.11 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2570 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/ (openmoko-today/ openmoko-today2/): openmoko-today -> openmoko-today2 |
| 12:29.16 | Elrond | BTW: Who is "www-data"? ;-) |
| 12:29.44 | mickeyl | me directly on svn.openmoko.org |
| 12:29.51 | daxxar | The default user for apache in debian-derivaties |
| 12:29.53 | daxxar | derivatives |
| 12:30.11 | daxxar | Do you guys use ssh+svn for svn, mickeyl? |
| 12:30.16 | mickeyl | no, https |
| 12:30.20 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, what about "RealIntegrationTime" at those false-positives? Is it > then "RealIntegrationTime" for actual signals? |
| 12:30.26 | daxxar | Okay. Why do you have a user named www-data? |
| 12:32.47 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@81-208-74-190.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 12:33.23 | moo^ | daxxar: default user on debian and ubuntu for apache 2. security matters. |
| 12:33.45 | moo^ | ops |
| 12:34.03 | daxxar | moo^: Haha. ;-) |
| 12:34.27 | Vegar | mickeyl: is that websvn? |
| 12:34.32 | daxxar | If they're using http(s) as the transport, I guess they must be using mod_authz (?), which means they've explicitly created www-data as a user. |
| 12:35.06 | mickeyl | i'm just using the infrastructure, i didn't set it up |
| 12:35.15 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - I have not yet looked. I found out about Integration times just the day I wrote the mail about t. The other stuff was done before that. |
| 12:35.23 | daxxar | mickeyl: There's a checkout locally on the box that "everyone" uses? |
| 12:35.43 | mickeyl | no. |
| 12:35.54 | mickeyl | you can svn mv directly on the server |
| 12:36.10 | mickeyl | however only www-data has the necessary permissions to do that |
| 12:36.17 | daxxar | Ah, using file://? |
| 12:36.20 | mickeyl | ya |
| 12:36.43 | daxxar | Okay, never tested how SVN reacted to file:// if I've also got http set up. Guess it just uses your unix-username. :-) |
| 12:36.53 | daxxar | Sorry, was just curious. :-) |
| 12:37.09 | Elrond | Hmm, I thought, svn mv would also work via https. Strange. |
| 12:37.21 | daxxar | It does. :-) |
| 12:37.41 | daxxar | I usually check out a top-level directory to svn mv, so that I can bundle mv's into one, though. (If I'm doing > 1 dir) |
| 12:37.54 | daxxar | s/top-level/higher level/ |
| 12:38.03 | Elrond | daxxar - hehe. :-) |
| 12:38.08 | daxxar | Anyway, that's a bit slow on bigger repos |
| 12:38.29 | Elrond | I only use svn via anonymous/read-only repos, or via ssh+svn. |
| 12:38.30 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, actual correlation strength = CorMax * MaxIntegrationTime / RealIntegrationTime |
| 12:38.40 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Ooooh! |
| 12:39.12 | daxxar | I've never used ssh+svn, only svn, http(s) or file |
| 12:39.18 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: The 'zig-zag' on the doppler looks to correlate more or less with a chips error. |
| 12:39.37 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - huh? |
| 12:40.01 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Remove the MaxIntegrationTime from the formula. :-) |
| 12:40.07 | SpeedEvil | Look at the traces of doppler vs time of the three satellites. |
| 12:40.12 | SpeedEvil | you see jaggies in it. |
| 12:40.40 | SpeedEvil | If you integrate the possible error the triangles of the jaggies may represent, it comes out as around a microsecond. |
| 12:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 12:41.39 | SpeedEvil | Which may indicate that it's trying to keep the recieved signal in one correlator bin, and only tweaking the doppler when it's about to fall out. |
| 12:41.59 | Elrond | Ahhhh. |
| 12:42.42 | SpeedEvil | This is _very_ rough. |
| 12:43.16 | SpeedEvil | If it does do this however, it would mean that the correlator would normally be synced with the incoming PRN. |
| 12:43.26 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, you are right. |
| 12:43.53 | SpeedEvil | Which means that when it integrates over the period of a millisecond repeatedly, it would not have 'stray' energy from adjacent 'symbols' leaking in. |
| 12:44.27 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: Did I come in in the middle of GPS talk? |
| 12:44.35 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: pretty much. |
| 12:44.52 | calamous1_ | Have you (or anyone) heard any more about the 3g sims? |
| 12:45.19 | calamous1_ | I'm really thinking about dropping fic an email |
| 12:45.21 | SpeedEvil | You need to align the correlator with the incoming signal - otherwise you will get 'fuzzy' bit-edges of the navigation bits. |
| 12:45.32 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: nothing resolved AIUI. |
| 12:45.38 | XorA | calamous1_: the bug is known by core team and being investigated |
| 12:45.54 | SpeedEvil | XorA: do they have SIMs to test with? |
| 12:46.14 | calamous1_ | XroA: Thats good. I will ship them my sim if they want |
| 12:46.21 | XorA | SpeedEvil: not sure on current state, but I know its being looked at |
| 12:47.02 | Dmitry_Platonov | calamous1_, what the problem is? |
| 12:47.04 | calamous1_ | XorA: Can I talk with anyone to see if they want my sim to test on (Standard at&t 4021 its in all their new phones incluiding iphone) |
| 12:47.20 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: ML is prolly reasonable. |
| 12:47.29 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: ML? |
| 12:47.30 | XorA | calamous1_: I would just put all info you have in the bug |
| 12:47.42 | SpeedEvil | The Mailing List |
| 12:47.49 | calamous1_ | XroA: Bug 666? |
| 12:48.35 | *** join/#openmoko mmp_ (n=mmp@adsl-dyn142.91-127-115.t-com.sk) |
| 12:48.37 | calamous1_ | Dimitry_Platonov: Many people can't get 3g sim cards to work with their device. They cant event do basic communication with the sim non the less make calls (except 911 in theory) |
| 12:49.03 | XorA | calamous1_: sounds like as good a place as any |
| 12:49.29 | cjb_ie | sounds like time to break out the wigglescopes |
| 12:49.35 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - If I awake from my work crap. I hopefully will be enough not-jaded to think up a quick script to extract the bin-number for the PRN. ;-) |
| 12:51.32 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac6146b.bb.sky.com) |
| 12:52.05 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-c387f9106f7c9603) |
| 12:52.54 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:54.43 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A561FA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:55.36 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:56.08 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:57.01 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 12:59.02 | *** join/#openmoko BryceL (n=penthofa@b3.ovh.net) |
| 12:59.30 | BryceLeo | squalyl you around |
| 12:59.41 | Zaireeka_ | I've used a 3G sim in my neo. It makes (silent) calls but will not recieve them. |
| 12:59.47 | calamous1_ | XorA: Do you think the neo's hardware can't read the sim, or that AT&T did something non standard to it to prevent phones they don't want on |
| 13:00.38 | calamous1_ | XorA: Because when I purshased my contract from AT&T for the prepaid sim card I made sure to ask about phones. They said that it will work with "any unlocked GSM phone" |
| 13:00.57 | Stephmw | there's hardly a need for conspiracy theories though... call control is primitive at best atm |
| 13:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 13:01.29 | calamous1_ | AT&T wants Business |
| 13:01.53 | calamous1_ | They want than sim to work with the phones I have so I will keep giving them my CC to reload the phone and they can make money |
| 13:02.09 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:03.10 | XorA | calamous1_: most likely a fault on Neo, but until someone scopes it, its hard to say |
| 13:03.27 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, does false positives happen in gllin too? |
| 13:04.06 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2571 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/: (OM2007) openmoko-rssreader -> (OM2007.2) openmoko-feedreader2 |
| 13:04.09 | mickeyl | zecke: here we are |
| 13:04.26 | mickeyl | i hope you don't mind changing the name to a somewhat less technical term |
| 13:04.39 | Zaireeka_ | does anybody know if calls are received with standard sim cards using the latest images? I'm unable to test this |
| 13:04.42 | zecke | I'm going to freak out :) |
| 13:04.46 | XorA | calamous1_: and as for the "non" standard, its very hard to make a "standard" SIM as there are a couple of mistakes in the standards that destroy any hope of everyone playing in the same park |
| 13:04.46 | mickeyl | heh |
| 13:04.57 | mickeyl | please not another one freaking out hint *hint* |
| 13:05.03 | mickeyl | ;) |
| 13:05.42 | StylusEater | how much volatile ram does the neo1973 have? and non-volatile? |
| 13:05.45 | Stephmw | zecke: there's only space for one person going spare, per month |
| 13:05.57 | Stephmw | ~faq |
| 13:05.58 | apt | faq is, like, frequently asked question... try asking me about "RTFM" |
| 13:06.08 | Stephmw | ~P1 |
| 13:06.12 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:06.33 | Stephmw | StylusEater: hmmm, can't put my finer on the link, but the FAQ should answer that question |
| 13:06.48 | StylusEater | http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html <-- I'm looking there |
| 13:06.59 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2141-ipbf2304marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 13:07.16 | FuzzyCat | mjr, ... |
| 13:07.21 | StylusEater | Stephmw: I'd think it'd be listed on the hardware page... |
| 13:07.58 | Stephmw | StylusEater: this is the detailed hardware page, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware |
| 13:08.14 | StylusEater | ty |
| 13:08.16 | Stephmw | StylusEater: most of the .com pages link to the wiki in one way or another |
| 13:10.14 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-81-106.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 13:10.35 | duffyd | anyone here from Taiwan and have ordered a Neo1973 P1? |
| 13:11.13 | *** join/#openmoko VladoK (n=vlado@adsl-dyn38.91-127-103.t-com.sk) |
| 13:11.21 | duffyd | I think I'm going to go insane waiting :-( |
| 13:11.46 | duffyd | I s'pose I naively thought living in Taiwan would mean I got some priority ;-) |
| 13:12.18 | XorA | duffyd: you could go and kick in their front doors :-) |
| 13:12.29 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.ethome-ip.ethome.com.tw) |
| 13:12.36 | duffyd | lol, true. Don't know if that would be good for the whole FOSS spirit thing :-) |
| 13:12.57 | Linux_Galore_ | openmoko are actually in the USA |
| 13:13.11 | aloril | faq |
| 13:13.12 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) |
| 13:13.12 | duffyd | Linux_Galore_: well depends on perspective really as Sean is in Taiwan |
| 13:13.46 | Linux_Galore_ | duffyd: thats because thats were FIC's offices are |
| 13:13.54 | duffyd | Linux_Galore_: exactly |
| 13:14.18 | Linux_Galore_ | duffyd: but last i heard FIC are not distributing the phone |
| 13:14.35 | duffyd | true but a subsidiary of there's, aka OpenMoko are |
| 13:15.40 | raster | openmoko has been spun off as its own company |
| 13:15.44 | duffyd | I'm actually unsure why they're distributing from the US - only reason I can think of is - US is more accessible, etc |
| 13:15.46 | raster | it used to be part of fic |
| 13:15.54 | duffyd | raster: yup |
| 13:16.17 | duffyd | raster: afaik it's still under the auspices of FIC though |
| 13:16.24 | duffyd | I mean they're funding it etc |
| 13:16.35 | Linux_Galore_ | well if it flops FIC management wont get too much heat I dare say |
| 13:16.40 | raster | yes |
| 13:16.48 | raster | fic are funding |
| 13:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 13:16.59 | raster | Linux_Galore_: dont be too sure about that |
| 13:17.07 | duffyd | yeah ;-) |
| 13:17.11 | raster | fic's own mobile phone operations have been shut down |
| 13:17.22 | duffyd | raster: wow, really?! |
| 13:17.22 | raster | directly because of this |
| 13:17.25 | raster | as best i know |
| 13:17.38 | raster | fic used to make phones |
| 13:17.41 | duffyd | yeah, they did mention something about reorganising the mobile phone division, etc |
| 13:17.44 | raster | like feature phones |
| 13:17.45 | raster | etc. |
| 13:17.59 | duffyd | hey raster - you're in Japan! |
| 13:18.01 | raster | duffyd: dunno |
| 13:18.07 | duffyd | I guess you knew that ;-) |
| 13:18.16 | raster | as best i know openmoko is the evolution of their mobile stuff |
| 13:18.26 | raster | and yes |
| 13:18.27 | raster | i'm in japan |
| 13:18.33 | XorA | s/evolution/revolutuion/ |
| 13:18.38 | duffyd | just that my wife is Japanese so I have a 'vested' interest in the place |
| 13:18.48 | Linux_Galore_ | FIC may be thinking "well if we cant get it right lets see if a bunch of Linux geeks can" |
| 13:18.50 | duffyd | if you don't mind me asking - what're you doing there? |
| 13:19.03 | duffyd | Linux_Galore_: ;-) |
| 13:19.04 | xzcvczx | does anyone else get this problem when compiling libx11 with mokomakefile '| xlibi18n/.libs/libi18n.a: member xlibi18n/.libs/libi18n.a(imThaiFlt.o) in archive is not an object' |
| 13:19.08 | raster | duffyd: aaah |
| 13:19.20 | raster | Linux_Galore_: maybe |
| 13:19.37 | raster | Linux_Galore_: maybe a bunch of linux geeks can make phones that no one else can |
| 13:19.44 | duffyd | lets hope so |
| 13:19.44 | raster | basically because they WILL think outside the box |
| 13:19.48 | Linux_Galore_ | FIC dont lose anything really and they still end up with a mobile phone software package |
| 13:19.53 | raster | if u take your existing mobile phone crew |
| 13:19.57 | raster | they will think the way they used to |
| 13:19.59 | raster | and work that way |
| 13:20.11 | SpeedEvil | FIC are asking 'can we get a OS for our hardware on the cheap" |
| 13:20.21 | raster | throw some really keen motivated linux nerds at it |
| 13:20.23 | raster | and presto |
| 13:20.24 | duffyd | SpeedEvil: why not ;-) |
| 13:20.29 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Evil indeed. That was what I was going to say. |
| 13:20.30 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 13:20.36 | duffyd | as long as they make the hardware, who cares ;-) |
| 13:20.41 | raster | fic (now openmok) are not just looking for an os for cheap |
| 13:20.51 | raster | they are willing to work on it and plow their work back into open srouce |
| 13:21.00 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 13:21.07 | raster | its the eco system |
| 13:21.15 | raster | u get somethinfg for "free" |
| 13:21.18 | raster | but |
| 13:21.19 | Linux_Galore_ | well as I keep telling everyone, the Linux community is so big now it is a market in itself |
| 13:21.20 | SpeedEvil | The buisness reason for them is to get an OS so they can sell phones to consumers without having to write their own OS. |
| 13:21.24 | raster | if u want to hang around for the long haul |
| 13:21.27 | raster | u need to also give back |
| 13:21.32 | StylusEater | I'm not seeing much along the lines of supported audio formats... The wilson DAC/ADC doesn't seem to support mp3 or ogg. Am I incorrect? |
| 13:21.37 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 13:21.41 | SpeedEvil | It's software only. |
| 13:21.47 | SpeedEvil | the wolfson thing is simply a soundcard. |
| 13:21.56 | SpeedEvil | In principle. |
| 13:22.00 | raster | just use mad |
| 13:22.04 | raster | or ogg123 |
| 13:22.05 | SpeedEvil | Once the powersaving is properly implemented. |
| 13:22.06 | raster | or mpg123 |
| 13:22.11 | raster | or whatever your favorite audio player is |
| 13:22.14 | abraxa_ | StylusEater: gstreamer has our back |
| 13:22.15 | SpeedEvil | It should last 20ish hours playing mp3. |
| 13:22.24 | duffyd | raster: did you get my message re. what you're doing in Japan? |
| 13:22.25 | raster | SpeedEvil: interesting question |
| 13:22.27 | StylusEater | so what formats are supported? anything that can be converted in software? |
| 13:22.34 | Linux_Galore_ | I wonder how FIC will take it if one of its Chinese competitors just takes the software and produces its own variant |
| 13:22.35 | raster | duffyd: sorry missed it. - um - working |
| 13:22.44 | duffyd | raster: k, in software or English ;-) |
| 13:22.50 | SpeedEvil | Linux_Galore_: it's a win for them. |
| 13:23.03 | SpeedEvil | Linux_Galore_: at the moment, they are a lowest bidder, making phones for Nokia. |
| 13:23.08 | raster | duffyd: IT :) |
| 13:23.15 | duffyd | raster: cool! Opensource? |
| 13:23.16 | SpeedEvil | Linux_Galore_: they want to be a 'PC' maker selling stuff to consumers. |
| 13:23.39 | raster | StylusEater: yup. if there is software that decodes it - it can be supported. |
| 13:23.53 | raster | duffyd: nup. not currently. that may change. stay tuned |
| 13:23.56 | Linux_Galore_ | SpeedEvil: hmm, bit like IBM with the XT/AT open standard ? |
| 13:24.00 | SpeedEvil | Linux_Galore_: If this happens, they get much better margins than selling phones as the lowest bid for the latest Nokia. |
| 13:24.02 | duffyd | raster: cool |
| 13:24.12 | StylusEater | raster: wireless 802.11? |
| 13:24.16 | duffyd | raster: you getting a Neo1973 P1? |
| 13:24.28 | StylusEater | did they ever get past the chip company releasing specs? |
| 13:24.29 | SpeedEvil | Linux_Galore_: basically. |
| 13:24.38 | raster | StylusEater: thew gta 02 (available in a few months) will have 802.11 |
| 13:24.46 | Linux_Galore_ | SpeedEvil: take a few years for the software to mature though, hope they are patient |
| 13:24.46 | raster | duffyd: already have the dev version |
| 13:24.47 | SpeedEvil | StylusEater: The atheros chip chosen has open drivers |
| 13:24.53 | duffyd | raster: awesome!!! |
| 13:24.58 | xkr47 | can you shut down any devices while making a phone call ? |
| 13:25.05 | xkr47 | I would imagine at least the display |
| 13:25.07 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: Sure. |
| 13:25.09 | duffyd | raster: my blog is http://kokorice.org (if you're interested) |
| 13:25.14 | duffyd | raster: you got a blog? |
| 13:25.15 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: display, bluetooth, GPS, CPU |
| 13:25.20 | xkr47 | cpu even.. nice |
| 13:25.24 | raster | you assume i have TIME to blog |
| 13:25.25 | SpeedEvil | In principle. |
| 13:25.28 | raster | www.rasterman.com |
| 13:25.29 | raster | i guess |
| 13:25.34 | duffyd | raster: lol |
| 13:25.35 | xkr47 | so the audio is handled purely by the audio chip ? |
| 13:25.36 | duffyd | thanks |
| 13:25.44 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: the routing is. |
| 13:25.51 | xkr47 | yeah.. |
| 13:26.04 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: if you've just set it up to connect the mic to the GSM input, and the output to the speakers. |
| 13:26.18 | xkr47 | yeah.. and mixer levels.. |
| 13:26.20 | ewon | how retarded. I can't buy the north american maps for my garmin unit outside north america. So what the hell do I do when I land in LAX? |
| 13:26.31 | XorA | ewon: buy maps |
| 13:26.37 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, but you can also connect pcm out to gsm input right? |
| 13:26.37 | raster | hahyaha |
| 13:26.43 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: yes. |
| 13:27.02 | raster | now what we need is OPEN map content for all of the world |
| 13:27.03 | xkr47 | chilling cool |
| 13:27.05 | ewon | SpeedEvil: isn't there some kind of cretinous product activation involved? |
| 13:27.10 | raster | all thsi open soruce stuff si great |
| 13:27.11 | ewon | or has that been cracked? |
| 13:27.14 | SpeedEvil | ewon: dunno. |
| 13:27.21 | raster | but its hard to have a nice map app if it has no god damned data |
| 13:27.23 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: Youtube please. |
| 13:27.28 | xkr47 | :D |
| 13:27.47 | raster | duffyd: i see - kiwi :) |
| 13:28.00 | duffyd | raster: yeah, don't hold that against me ;-) |
| 13:28.10 | duffyd | raster: I'm not holding the Ozzy thing against you (for the record) |
| 13:28.17 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - I don't know, if gllin also trips on flase positives, or if it has some advanced logic to filter them out. |
| 13:28.24 | duffyd | if it helps - my last name is German ;-) |
| 13:28.30 | raster | duffyd: hehehe |
| 13:28.53 | raster | i'd be torn then |
| 13:29.03 | raster | i'm half german |
| 13:29.07 | raster | other hald is ozzie |
| 13:29.09 | raster | half |
| 13:29.36 | duffyd | ;-) |
| 13:30.19 | xkr47 | someone should start an openmoko comic :) |
| 13:30.47 | xkr47 | with openmoko devices + line art heads, hands & feet acting as characters |
| 13:31.01 | xkr47 | or maybe the device could be the head :) |
| 13:31.04 | Elrond | raster - How stable is efl currently? |
| 13:31.53 | raster | Elrond: WFM(tm) |
| 13:31.53 | raster | :) |
| 13:32.18 | raster | dependsw what u mean by stable |
| 13:32.22 | raster | and what your standards are |
| 13:32.27 | raster | and what bitf of efl u use |
| 13:32.28 | raster | bits |
| 13:32.31 | raster | as its split up |
| 13:32.35 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=billybob@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:32.37 | raster | older stuff is really stable |
| 13:32.42 | raster | both api and runtime-wise |
| 13:32.45 | raster | newer stuff - less so |
| 13:33.01 | abraxa_ | raster: Half German? Do you actually speak it, too? |
| 13:33.06 | raster | but the less stablke bits are probabkly no less stable than gtk etc. |
| 13:33.07 | FuzzyCat | is there a good hires picute of the neo |
| 13:33.18 | prpplague | nbd: morning |
| 13:33.32 | raster | abraxa_: ja - ich kann es noch fliessend - aber bin mal ein bisschen rustig |
| 13:33.42 | abraxa_ | raster: Haha niiice |
| 13:33.54 | Stephmw | hi prpplague |
| 13:34.10 | duffyd | raster: this may be a controversial question (on this channel anyway) but how do you rate the N800? |
| 13:34.22 | raster | duffyd: nice |
| 13:34.28 | raster | but it has no stinkin phone bits |
| 13:34.34 | raster | so i need to ALSO drag around a phone |
| 13:34.40 | raster | also its big |
| 13:34.49 | raster | it'd be better with a real keyboard |
| 13:34.53 | raster | but otherwise its very nice |
| 13:34.55 | raster | oh |
| 13:34.58 | raster | the camera sucks arse |
| 13:35.08 | raster | and the graphics pipeline/bus is crap |
| 13:35.13 | raster | worse than the 770 |
| 13:35.20 | raster | its actually embarrasingly bad |
| 13:35.20 | duffyd | k |
| 13:35.49 | duffyd | lol |
| 13:36.10 | raster | but its otherwise nice |
| 13:36.13 | raster | the cpu is fast and good |
| 13:36.13 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 13:36.14 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 13:36.16 | raster | memory good |
| 13:36.21 | raster | design is good |
| 13:36.41 | raster | the software isnt really fantastic though |
| 13:36.47 | raster | a bit sluggish |
| 13:36.54 | raster | it can't suspend/sleep well |
| 13:37.02 | duffyd | raster: do you know Shigeo Honda or Takeshi Yamamoto? |
| 13:37.11 | xkr47 | raster, it snores when sleeping ?-D |
| 13:37.21 | raster | so if u dont literally shut it down ()which means booting when u turn it on again and waiting for a 1 minute boot or so) it will only last 8-10hrs on its battery |
| 13:37.42 | duffyd | k |
| 13:37.43 | raster | duffyd: no - never heard of them |
| 13:38.02 | duffyd | raster: they're involved in the Japanese Zope User Group - what I do for a day job :-) |
| 13:38.05 | *** part/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 13:38.12 | duffyd | well do zope/plone dev anyway |
| 13:38.18 | duffyd | as you probably saw on my blog :-) |
| 13:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@ip-217-18-177-19.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 13:38.32 | raster | yeah |
| 13:38.34 | raster | i spotted it |
| 13:38.39 | raster | i dont do "web programming" |
| 13:38.44 | raster | so i dont float in those circles |
| 13:38.52 | Elrond | raster - Thanks for your answer. :-) |
| 13:38.58 | abraxa_ | FuzzyCat: http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/ has some hi-res photos |
| 13:39.18 | raster | it looks like the photos that openmoko.com/org have :) |
| 13:39.23 | duffyd | raster: cool, you did an NZ ski trip in 02~ |
| 13:39.46 | Elrond | FuzzyCat - flickr has some also. |
| 13:39.59 | xzcvczx | duffyd: are you from nz? |
| 13:40.01 | FuzzyCat | ta |
| 13:40.07 | duffyd | xzcvczx: yup |
| 13:40.09 | *** join/#openmoko devestate (n=devestat@r02amsdm2.desktop.umr.edu) |
| 13:40.15 | xzcvczx | duffyd: what part? |
| 13:40.25 | duffyd | FuzzyCat: ta? you from the Southern Hemisphere also? |
| 13:40.30 | duffyd | xzcvczx: Christchurch |
| 13:40.38 | Elrond | FuzzyCat - http://www.flickr.com/groups/openmoko/pool/ |
| 13:40.47 | duffyd | currently in Taichung, Taiwan |
| 13:40.56 | xzcvczx | duffyd: ah nice and warm there at the moment i trust :P |
| 13:41.05 | duffyd | xzcvczx: yes |
| 13:41.10 | xzcvczx | duffyd: lol |
| 13:41.13 | duffyd | *too* warm |
| 13:41.21 | xzcvczx | turn off the heater then :P |
| 13:41.36 | xzcvczx | duffyd: hows the shipping on yours going? |
| 13:41.40 | raster | duffyd: yeah - i have done 2 nz ski trips actually |
| 13:41.44 | duffyd | xzcvczx: stinkee! |
| 13:41.48 | duffyd | raster: cool |
| 13:41.49 | raster | duffyd: one to queenstown, other to wanaka |
| 13:41.55 | duffyd | xzcvczx: I've heard nothing yet |
| 13:41.58 | duffyd | zilcho |
| 13:42.07 | xzcvczx | duffyd: you have tracking number i assume? |
| 13:42.08 | raster | actually the snow was a bit shitty |
| 13:42.11 | duffyd | raster: nice scenery down there |
| 13:42.16 | duffyd | xzcvczx: yes |
| 13:42.18 | raster | somehow staying in wakana or queenstown |
| 13:42.19 | duffyd | 2018 |
| 13:42.21 | raster | ands having no snow |
| 13:42.26 | raster | and needing to drive up the mountain to find it |
| 13:42.29 | raster | kinda sucks |
| 13:42.30 | raster | :( |
| 13:42.32 | xzcvczx | duffyd: yeah but tracking thing for ups |
| 13:42.33 | duffyd | raster: lol |
| 13:42.37 | duffyd | xzcvczx: no |
| 13:42.42 | duffyd | no UPS info yet |
| 13:42.43 | raster | i want snow everywhere when i ski |
| 13:42.54 | duffyd | I've emailed OpenMoko a few times (even sean directly) but no response |
| 13:42.56 | raster | if nz had snow down in queenstown |
| 13:43.04 | duffyd | well my recent email hasn't had a response anyway |
| 13:43.08 | raster | i'd damn well buy a place there as a mountain getaway |
| 13:43.33 | xzcvczx | duffyd: oh ok i already have tracking number and i am 2540 |
| 13:43.38 | duffyd | raster: it seems to be getting pretty cold in Winter nowadays so I would guess your chances are fairly high |
| 13:43.52 | xzcvczx | duffyd: its all the global warming :P |
| 13:43.53 | duffyd | xzcvczx: that's why I'm baffled. Can't understand why I don't have a UPS tracking number |
| 13:43.54 | raster | even with global warming? |
| 13:44.02 | duffyd | raster: yup |
| 13:44.17 | xzcvczx | duffyd: well you havent even got a payement recieved thing yet |
| 13:44.19 | raster | hmm |
| 13:44.20 | raster | ok |
| 13:44.20 | duffyd | raster: check out all the storms they've had lately |
| 13:44.22 | raster | might look at it again |
| 13:44.25 | duffyd | xzcvczx: nup |
| 13:44.27 | xzcvczx | what was the date that you ordered |
| 13:44.29 | raster | though that eare has become hella-expensive |
| 13:44.36 | duffyd | xzcvczx: 9th of July |
| 13:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 13:44.44 | Fatal | I ordered on the same day that most people did (but late) |
| 13:44.52 | Fatal | duffyd: what tracker id did you get? |
| 13:44.57 | duffyd | 2018 |
| 13:45.14 | xzcvczx | duffyd: i feel sorry for you i orded on the 13th and its already been shipped |
| 13:45.26 | duffyd | xzcvczx: yeah I can't understand it |
| 13:45.29 | Fatal | ouch, I'm at #2580 |
| 13:45.41 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (i=bryce@trans-am.dreamhost.com) |
| 13:45.42 | duffyd | I've got a bad feeling it has something to do with me being in Taiwan :-( |
| 13:46.02 | duffyd | roh has confirmed that it's in the system |
| 13:46.19 | duffyd | and my YES_I_DO reply has been received also |
| 13:46.21 | xzcvczx | duffyd: oh so maybe its the billing address/shipping address dont match that of your cc |
| 13:46.38 | duffyd | xzcvczx: actually that is possibly true |
| 13:46.48 | raster | duffyd: i think that the openmoko has not been "fcc" approved in .tw |
| 13:46.50 | duffyd | as it doesn't match |
| 13:46.58 | raster | thus it actually cannot be imported (yet) |
| 13:46.58 | duffyd | raster: ahhhhh |
| 13:47.02 | duffyd | noooooo |
| 13:47.06 | raster | but certificfation is under way right now |
| 13:47.25 | duffyd | that's *really* bad news |
| 13:47.26 | xzcvczx | raster: chances are it would get done in .tw before .nz |
| 13:47.35 | raster | possibly |
| 13:47.44 | duffyd | xzcvczx: what do you mean? |
| 13:47.45 | raster | it may be that .nz and .au etc. might accept devices fcc approved for example |
| 13:47.51 | prpplague | Stephmw: greetings |
| 13:47.56 | xzcvczx | raster: isnt .tw the same? |
| 13:47.56 | raster | or maybe its because openmoko are in .tw |
| 13:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 13:48.01 | raster | they really have to follow the law there |
| 13:48.06 | duffyd | ok |
| 13:48.10 | xzcvczx | oh ok |
| 13:48.31 | xzcvczx | duffyd: so are you just on holiday in tw |
| 13:48.37 | duffyd | xzcvczx: yup |
| 13:48.50 | mmazur | Hope nobody jails me for using neo in poland. |
| 13:48.52 | xzcvczx | lol wouldnt you hate it if they shipped it just before you retuyrned |
| 13:48.52 | duffyd | going to be back in NZ about the first week of September |
| 13:48.54 | xzcvczx | returned |
| 13:49.00 | duffyd | xzcvczx: YES |
| 13:49.01 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@179.Red-81-44-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:49.03 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 13:49.14 | duffyd | I'd commit harakiri |
| 13:49.16 | raster | really not 100% sure |
| 13:49.18 | raster | but be patient |
| 13:49.25 | duffyd | that's slit my stomach open with a samurai sword ;-) |
| 13:49.30 | raster | i do know that topenmoko got more orders than they expected |
| 13:49.36 | raster | and are struggling to deal with them all |
| 13:49.39 | duffyd | ok |
| 13:49.41 | xzcvczx | i think i was one of the last few in the first shipment of P1 as i dont see anyone after me with shipped |
| 13:49.41 | raster | since they are basically a new company |
| 13:49.48 | raster | and fic has never really sold direct to the public |
| 13:49.50 | ninHer | hi all |
| 13:49.51 | raster | its all "new" |
| 13:49.53 | raster | to them |
| 13:49.54 | duffyd | yeah |
| 13:50.01 | raster | they can manufacture stuff |
| 13:50.12 | raster | but selling it to end users and gettign it shipped is a whole new game |
| 13:50.17 | Zaireeka_ | I replied to the warning email with orange, but they sent me a black/silver. Now that it's arrived, I realised I really don't care about the colour, I would have taken it in pink/green! |
| 13:50.20 | raster | i am sure thsi will be streamlined in time |
| 13:50.25 | duffyd | you'd think they'd get the whole importing to Taiwan thing sussed pretty quickly considering they're based here |
| 13:50.33 | xzcvczx | what version of gcc/glibc/glib are people using to compile openmoko? |
| 13:50.54 | duffyd | xzcvczx: btw where are you based? |
| 13:51.02 | xzcvczx | duffyd: auckland |
| 13:51.11 | duffyd | xzcvczx: wow! Why didn't you say ;-) |
| 13:51.12 | xzcvczx | duffyd: capital of nz :P |
| 13:51.17 | duffyd | xzcvczx: well I was born there |
| 13:51.24 | xzcvczx | duffyd: ah ok what part? |
| 13:51.30 | duffyd | Browns Bay, North Shore |
| 13:51.30 | xzcvczx | duffyd: i was born in hamilton |
| 13:51.35 | xzcvczx | duffyd: lol nice |
| 13:51.48 | duffyd | xzcvczx: what's your contact details? |
| 13:51.50 | xzcvczx | duffyd: i got very lost in browns bay the other day |
| 13:51.55 | duffyd | xzcvczx: lol |
| 13:51.56 | xzcvczx | duffyd: -> pm |
| 13:52.00 | duffyd | ok |
| 13:52.09 | FuzzyCat | duffyd, I have relatice there ;) |
| 13:52.24 | raster | time to relax and snooze |
| 13:52.25 | duffyd | FuzzyCat: cool. Where are you based? |
| 13:52.26 | raster | nite |
| 13:52.27 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 13:53.19 | FuzzyCat | atm in the uk |
| 13:53.37 | xzcvczx | FuzzyCat: what part of the uk |
| 13:53.43 | *** part/#openmoko VladoK (n=vlado@adsl-dyn38.91-127-103.t-com.sk) |
| 13:53.47 | FuzzyCat | the wet bit :P |
| 13:53.55 | FuzzyCat | suffolk |
| 13:53.58 | xzcvczx | ah ok |
| 13:54.13 | xzcvczx | at least you didnt say milton keynes...... worst city in the world |
| 13:54.25 | FuzzyCat | I went their once... |
| 13:54.35 | FuzzyCat | had to locate a sewearage works... |
| 13:55.03 | xzcvczx | lol and how did you find the roundabouts there that are all named with completely useless names so you get soooo lost |
| 13:55.23 | FuzzyCat | they were all the bloody same, it was a nightmare |
| 13:55.29 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 13:55.56 | xzcvczx | FuzzyCat: lol yeah we had the same thing when we went in 2002 |
| 13:56.00 | FuzzyCat | everywhere looked the same, I drove round for about 2 hours.. |
| 13:56.19 | xzcvczx | yup |
| 13:56.22 | xzcvczx | thats the one |
| 13:56.33 | FuzzyCat | I never want to go again |
| 13:56.37 | xzcvczx | :P |
| 13:58.48 | xzcvczx | FuzzyCat: how often do you return to this awesome place? |
| 13:59.33 | FuzzyCat | errm... when's the next blue moon ? |
| 13:59.48 | xzcvczx | in a few weeks :P |
| 14:00.00 | FuzzyCat | ahh... wont be then.. |
| 14:00.14 | xzcvczx | nah i dunno |
| 14:00.22 | duffyd | l8r all |
| 14:01.23 | XorA | Milton Keynes shopping centre when it first opened used to have huge pits of lego you just climbed in and built stuff |
| 14:01.43 | xzcvczx | XorA: so thats an excuse for the damn roundabouts? |
| 14:01.58 | xzcvczx | so the kids could stay longer playing in the lego |
| 14:02.19 | XorA | heh heh |
| 14:02.34 | xzcvczx | dammit i just got a universal remote that claims on some sites to be learning but the instruction manual says nothing about it |
| 14:03.46 | xzcvczx | XorA: where are you based? |
| 14:03.52 | XorA | Edinburgh |
| 14:03.56 | xzcvczx | ah ok |
| 14:04.30 | *** join/#openmoko nop__ (n=nop@p54A08A7A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:06.03 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E553.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:08.08 | xzcvczx | has anyone with a phone actually said how long the battery lasts for under "normal" usage? |
| 14:08.18 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: they can't. |
| 14:08.28 | SpeedEvil | The power managment stuff is not written. |
| 14:08.37 | SpeedEvil | 1 of 7 kernel power managment interfaces are done. |
| 14:08.57 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: yeah i realise that |
| 14:09.06 | xzcvczx | more just wondering how long it lasts on a charge at current |
| 14:09.09 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-39.upc.chello.be) |
| 14:09.23 | SpeedEvil | Some 4-8 hours or so, depending on LCD on or off. |
| 14:09.38 | xzcvczx | ah ok, thanks |
| 14:09.44 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:12.45 | SpeedEvil | In principle, this can go _way_ up. |
| 14:13.18 | SpeedEvil | For example, 8 hours talk-time (with CPU off) or 5 days standby. |
| 14:13.32 | SpeedEvil | And 20-30 hours MP3 playback. |
| 14:13.36 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 14:13.53 | *** join/#openmoko Virtulis (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 14:14.23 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: yeah, at the moment i am more interested in the now |
| 14:14.25 | Zaireeka_ | XorA, I'm from Edinburgh also, small world |
| 14:14.27 | ewon | is the software going to be in a decent enough state for Joe Public to use it with GTA02 in Oct? |
| 14:14.42 | xzcvczx | ewon: i doubt it will be released in oct if its not |
| 14:14.56 | cjb_ie | ewon: ...assuming gta02 is out in oct. xzcvczx: damn your nimble fingers |
| 14:15.00 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: A nokia 1100 will be a _considerably_ better phone for a long time. |
| 14:15.06 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-116-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:15.14 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: yeah i realise that |
| 14:16.07 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: but meh with the price of services in nz it will probably be better having one that can only sometimes do calling,texting and contacts and runs out of battery all the time :P |
| 14:16.28 | *** join/#openmoko vallor (n=Rock@frenzy.wba.ponzo.net) |
| 14:16.41 | xzcvczx | cjb_ie: i think they are brave to assume oct for including wifi and everything and i consumer ready os |
| 14:17.09 | cjb_ie | i'm just wondering if the hardware will actually be ready, and shipping |
| 14:17.25 | XorA | Zaireeka_: still live here? |
| 14:18.24 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. If the GSM bit uses the same power as a Nokia 1100, then it may have a standby time of some 25 days. |
| 14:18.39 | xzcvczx | is that how long the 1100 lasts? |
| 14:18.40 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8565.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:18.41 | SpeedEvil | Somewhat lower power, as the nokia needs some power for the display. |
| 14:18.44 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 14:18.51 | xzcvczx | oh ok lol |
| 14:18.59 | SpeedEvil | The nokia has a smaller battery, and a LCD active at the same time. |
| 14:19.05 | xzcvczx | oh yup |
| 14:19.16 | SpeedEvil | This would be in 'off' mode - with just the GSM module active and waiting on a call. |
| 14:19.19 | StylusEater | SpeedEvil: thx for the info. Can you please lookover --> http://littlehat.homelinux.org:8000/embedded/iPhonevsOpenMoko.html |
| 14:19.51 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 14:20.09 | *** join/#openmoko nenadgrujicic (n=ccc@77.46.194.2) |
| 14:21.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Devirginator/it]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Application_Developer]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Main_Page/ru]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Translation]] |
| 14:21.27 | Zaireeka_ | XorA: yeah |
| 14:21.48 | aloril | (script) planet: Koen Kooi: Kinetic scrolling on the neo1973 http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/kinetic-scrolling-on-the-neo1973 |
| 14:21.49 | XorA | Zaireeka_: wicked |
| 14:21.50 | alp | StylusEater: Linux 2.6 surely, and it's probably not actually "Illegal to develop new applications" for the iPhone |
| 14:22.15 | xzcvczx | StylusEater: probably just unsupported |
| 14:22.28 | StylusEater | EULA says it I believe |
| 14:22.31 | SpeedEvil | FIC1973 - mono speaker only. |
| 14:22.48 | *** join/#openmoko cninja (n=cninja@pcd702156.netvigator.com) |
| 14:22.52 | SpeedEvil | EULA saying it does not mean it's binding in many jurisdictions. |
| 14:22.55 | xzcvczx | StylusEater: yes but it wont hold up in court as its reverse enigneering for the purpose of cross compatibility |
| 14:23.20 | StylusEater | xzcvczx: fixed |
| 14:23.33 | StylusEater | better? |
| 14:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07DBC7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:23.50 | SpeedEvil | The big problem with the iPhone is that Apple are completely within their rights to have AT&T turn off the hacked phones service. |
| 14:24.29 | nbd | prpplague: hi |
| 14:24.31 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: thats legal? |
| 14:24.41 | xzcvczx | StylusEater: yup |
| 14:24.52 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: read the small print of the contract, and I'm sure that you'll find that clause in there. |
| 14:25.05 | StylusEater | anything you pay for is legal in the US... haha |
| 14:25.35 | StylusEater | err rather... in the sense of large companies paying for "special treatment" ... not necessarily other things like drugs... bahh.. whatev |
| 14:25.45 | SpeedEvil | On ITAR - http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/30/0215204 |
| 14:26.00 | xzcvczx | StylusEater: anythings legal as long as you dont get caught |
| 14:27.20 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: oh well if they turn it off then you know longer have the 12month contract with them :P |
| 14:27.30 | xzcvczx | or however long the contract is |
| 14:29.10 | sandos | aloril: that seems extremelyt unresponsive |
| 14:29.20 | sandos | s/extremelyt/extremely/ |
| 14:29.39 | StylusEater | 3 years minimum for AT&T contract afaik |
| 14:30.12 | xzcvczx | StylusEater: lol my bad.... cant say i have read too much into the iPhone as it will be ages before it hits our shores |
| 14:30.18 | prpplague | nbd: doing any sdio dev today? |
| 14:31.10 | StylusEater | hope it doesn't |
| 14:31.39 | nbd | prpplague: haven't done any further work on it yet. i don't have the hardware with me right now |
| 14:32.15 | prpplague | nbd: ahh ok |
| 14:32.26 | prpplague | nbd: give me a shout when you get time |
| 14:32.36 | prpplague | nbd: i'll be doing some testing today |
| 14:32.50 | nbd | i think i'll review the controller driver today |
| 14:33.26 | prpplague | nbd: okie dokie |
| 14:33.41 | sandos | nbd: are you the network block device? ;) |
| 14:34.05 | nbd | sandos: i think you know the answer to that one ;) |
| 14:34.07 | prpplague | nbd: i've written up a module to do some testing with the irq's on the sdi controller |
| 14:34.09 | sandos | haha |
| 14:34.30 | nbd | prpplague: have you looked at my patches/driver yet? |
| 14:34.36 | prpplague | nbd: i'd like to get some hard data confirming the irq problems |
| 14:34.43 | prpplague | nbd: yea, i looked some on friday |
| 14:35.10 | prpplague | nbd: i didn't do a full test, but something definetly looks incorrect on the cmd53 section |
| 14:38.52 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: If you break the contract on your side, you still have to pay. |
| 14:39.32 | XorA | SpeedEvil: a contract is either terminated or not terminated, it cant hang half terminated, if they cancel you dont have to pay |
| 14:39.33 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: but if they turn off your service for "hacking" the iphone they would have issues taking that throught the court system |
| 14:40.02 | xzcvczx | any decent judge would tell them where to jump |
| 14:40.27 | SpeedEvil | XorA: you can be in breach of the contract, and yet still obligated to pay them. |
| 14:40.45 | XorA | SpeedEvil: only if they continue to supply service |
| 14:40.50 | SpeedEvil | XorA: Consider if you take a hammer to your new hire purchase car. |
| 14:41.14 | SpeedEvil | They will not fix it, and you still have to pay, and you don't get service. |
| 14:41.16 | XorA | SpeedEvil: the only way they could do that would be to inisist you "fixed" the phone back to conditions they allow then they will re-allow you on network |
| 14:41.56 | XorA | SpeedEvil: in that case they can actually have you prosecuted for vandalism as they own the car still |
| 14:44.05 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 14:45.18 | aloril | hmm... I think it would be more like: you do unsanctioned modification to car, they disable motor so you can't drive with it anymore and you still have to pay |
| 14:45.37 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: the way i see it is that if you hacked the iphone, at&t cut your service, you stopped paying your bill, at&t took you to court for this, the judge would throw it out based on reverse engineering for purpose of interoperability |
| 14:46.37 | xzcvczx | the 1973 01/02 doesnt/isng going to have ir is it? |
| 14:46.51 | XorA | xzcvczx: no |
| 14:46.58 | xzcvczx | :( |
| 14:47.09 | xzcvczx | would be a nice universal remote :P |
| 14:47.19 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 14:47.31 | SpeedEvil | It hasn't been confirmed what wavelength the LEDs behind the buttons are. |
| 14:47.38 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 14:47.39 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 14:47.42 | SpeedEvil | (in 01. |
| 14:47.44 | Dmitry_Platonov | aloril, it's more like you do unsanctioned modification to your car, and gas stations are not willing to supply you with gas. |
| 14:47.47 | SpeedEvil | 02 even |
| 14:48.05 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 14:48.25 | SpeedEvil | Or unsanctioned modification to your gas cylinder, and the gas refillers will not supply it. (as they indeed won't) |
| 14:48.41 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: thats because its a safety issue |
| 14:48.57 | aloril | Dmitry_Platonov: hmm.. yeah, but you still need to pay for gas ;-) |
| 14:48.57 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: and is only legal as its legislation |
| 14:49.07 | SpeedEvil | If the GSM stack is on the CPU of the Iphone, it could also be a safety issue. |
| 14:49.18 | SpeedEvil | Hacking it may violate the FCC certification. |
| 14:49.33 | SpeedEvil | Also |
| 14:49.37 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 14:49.58 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: its the gsm chip that limits what the phone can do and therefore keeping it within a majority of the FCC |
| 14:50.10 | hena | my dreams of a free phone come crumbling down :/ |
| 14:50.21 | SpeedEvil | Many phones nowadays have the GSM baseband side connected directly to the main CPU. |
| 14:50.22 | aloril | whatever, AT&T disabling iPhone that has user installed programs (aka hacked iPhone) would probably be quite bad pr |
| 14:50.32 | SpeedEvil | The main CPU does all the GSM stack stuff. |
| 14:50.47 | SpeedEvil | The companion chips are simply radio interfaces and nothing more. |
| 14:50.56 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: so i can tell the main CPU to pump out 30 Watts of power over the 800mhz range |
| 14:51.28 | SpeedEvil | The problem is more that two users decide to do peer-peer data transfer. |
| 14:51.32 | SpeedEvil | Which is 'free'. |
| 14:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3AFA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:51.51 | SpeedEvil | And coincidentally jams 8 other users of the channel unless they are much closer to the tower than the two users. |
| 14:52.08 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: i just liked the old motorola startacs that you could use to listen in on other peoples conversations |
| 14:54.07 | hena | there should be an another channel for philosofical stuff and such |
| 14:54.10 | hena | :) |
| 14:54.14 | xzcvczx | lol |
| 14:54.18 | SpeedEvil | And spelling corrections. |
| 14:54.29 | hena | dunno about that |
| 14:55.53 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 14:56.19 | xzcvczx | i am just wondering but with the neo would you be technically able to effectively 'clone' the simcard onto the phone and then have the ability to software switch between simcards |
| 14:56.44 | cjb_ie | i think simcards are meant to be too intelligent to let you do that. |
| 14:56.47 | Stephmw | don't think you can get at the bits you'd need |
| 14:56.54 | cjb_ie | too black-box |
| 14:57.09 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3AFA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:57.31 | xzcvczx | cjb_ie: do they really have a need to be when they are peered with an imei at boot so you need to clone the imsi and the imei to "clone" a cellphone number |
| 14:58.18 | xzcvczx | Stephmw: you should be able to get at all the bits that the gsm part of the phone can thought technically therefore you should have enough information to 'clone' it |
| 14:58.42 | XorA | xzcvczx: you IMSI paried with your Ki is your phone account, Ki you need to hack SIM to obtain |
| 14:59.50 | *** join/#openmoko konqui[tm] (i=freenode@deinbnc.go4bnc.de) |
| 14:59.53 | xzcvczx | oh ok, my bad |
| 14:59.56 | XorA | obtaining Ki is not easy, and barring bugs in some implementations of RUN GSM ALGORITHM you need a lot of skill and a FIB machine to do it |
| 15:00.07 | XorA | talking a couple million quid |
| 15:00.39 | xzcvczx | XorA: but doesnt the gsm chip in the phone need the ki? |
| 15:01.04 | XorA | xzcvczx: no, its all done inside SIM, phone only sees the result of calculation |
| 15:01.18 | xzcvczx | well that shuts me up |
| 15:01.27 | xzcvczx | thanks :) |
| 15:01.54 | Writchie | run gsm run |
| 15:02.36 | cjb_ie | DMCA violation anyone? |
| 15:03.31 | Dmitry_Platonov | I think there are SIM cloning tools |
| 15:04.03 | Placid | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S-IC_engines_and_Von_Braun.jpg |
| 15:04.09 | *** join/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:04.09 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-84-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:04.31 | BryceLeo | hey guys anyone have a bitbake file that'll build a gtk app? |
| 15:05.17 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (n=me@dD5763257.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:05.54 | hena | now there's a hole in the phone wishlish |
| 15:06.05 | Dmitry_Platonov | does bitbake have relation with portage? .bb syntax seems very like .ebuild |
| 15:06.08 | hena | didn't feel like correcting all the index numbers of everyone |
| 15:06.09 | hena | :) |
| 15:06.12 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@yukon.ncct.uottawa.ca) |
| 15:06.18 | BryceLeo | dmitry yes they're related |
| 15:06.20 | hena | hope it doesn't bug anyone |
| 15:07.00 | xzcvczx | Dmitry_Platonov: are you running gentoo? |
| 15:07.09 | Dmitry_Platonov | hena, such things should be numbered lists anyway. |
| 15:07.16 | Dmitry_Platonov | xzcvczx, yes. |
| 15:07.58 | xzcvczx | Dmitry_Platonov: have you been able to successfully run 'make openmoko-devel-image' on the gentoo box using mokomakefile?? |
| 15:09.33 | Dmitry_Platonov | xzcvczx, not tried yet. |
| 15:10.06 | xzcvczx | oh ok |
| 15:11.07 | xzcvczx | it crashes for me with libx11 as some of the files dont get compiled correctly into ELF executables and just come out as data |
| 15:11.45 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FD5CF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:14.49 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 15:15.57 | dando- | hi |
| 15:16.56 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-219.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:16.56 | mokobot | Hello Master |
| 15:17.29 | xzcvczx | lol someone is sadistic |
| 15:18.00 | dando- | Is there a new project for OpenMoko i could help to develop ? |
| 15:18.16 | BryceLeo | so nobody have a bitbake file that compiles a gtk app? |
| 15:18.24 | BryceLeo | s/have/has |
| 15:19.28 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 15:19.40 | Kensan | BryceLeo: did you look through the Openembedded repository? (http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages) |
| 15:20.13 | BryceLeo | kensan most of those run makefiles and don't build in the bitbake file itself |
| 15:20.24 | *** join/#openmoko GvzEvxre (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:20.56 | dando- | make update-makefile; make update ? |
| 15:21.21 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
| 15:23.09 | Kensan | BryceLeo: ic. how about Angstrom? (http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/) |
| 15:23.14 | abraxa_ | BryceLeo: I'm yet to encounter a package that doesn't make use of AutoMake |
| 15:24.40 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@105.Red-81-44-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:26.10 | dando- | Do you guys know what a german Biergarten is? |
| 15:26.28 | dando- | Translated : Beergarden |
| 15:26.38 | _diego__ | sound interesting :) |
| 15:27.05 | dando- | Thats where im leaving now |
| 15:27.26 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac6146b.bb.sky.com) |
| 15:27.52 | dando- | drinking a Hefeweizen |
| 15:28.01 | BryceLeo | kensan angstromg is x11 not gtk from what i'm lookign at |
| 15:28.18 | BryceLeo | abraxa: dang... well that's a bit of a pain |
| 15:28.22 | xzcvczx | there any other non us people here whos phones have been shipped? |
| 15:28.28 | XorA | BryceLeo: that sentence made no sense at all |
| 15:28.51 | XorA | BryceLeo: Angstrom is a distro, not a windowing system |
| 15:31.20 | Dmitry_Platonov | as I understand, Angstrom is derivative of OE, and so is OpenMoko. Right? |
| 15:31.50 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-c8fa7f63f226c9e8) |
| 15:32.33 | zecke | Dmitry_Platonov: OE is a tool. Angstrom and OpenMoko distributiona re created using this tool |
| 15:33.16 | squalyl | stefan_schmidt: OK I'm restarting build now. |
| 15:33.25 | squalyl | oups, sorry, bad window :) |
| 15:35.41 | Zaireeka_ | what's the best way to check that the sound is functional on the neo? |
| 15:35.53 | ewon | play foo.wav perhaps |
| 15:36.05 | compbrain | My neo is less than 20 minutes away, and has been for the last four days |
| 15:36.10 | ewon | nice |
| 15:36.11 | Writchie | you can madplay an mp3 |
| 15:36.25 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:36.26 | Writchie | from command line |
| 15:36.44 | ewon | play works from commandline |
| 15:36.48 | ewon | as does cat foo > /dev/dsp |
| 15:36.51 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-67-43.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 15:36.52 | ewon | or somesuch |
| 15:37.10 | Zaireeka_ | cheers |
| 15:37.13 | BryceLeo | xora what do you mean? |
| 15:37.45 | xzcvczx | ewon: i remember back in the days when i wasnt very familiar with linux being told to do the old cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp and having my speakers turned up a wee bit too loud |
| 15:38.58 | ewon | nic |
| 15:38.59 | ewon | e |
| 15:39.05 | xzcvczx | compbrain: where are you based? |
| 15:39.53 | compbrain | Boston |
| 15:40.21 | xzcvczx | as either they are just being lazy with scanning mine or it still hasnt been picked up i dont know which but i believe it should have been picked up by now |
| 15:40.51 | Dmitry_Platonov | xzcvczx, are you running ~x86? |
| 15:41.05 | compbrain | Mine is sitting at the UPS warehouse, because its Ground shipping they have no motivation to put it on one of the 30 trucks making the trip from the dist center to Boston |
| 15:42.54 | xzcvczx | Dmitry_Platonov: yup |
| 15:44.47 | xzcvczx | i wish they had used fed-ex |
| 15:45.07 | xzcvczx | last time i used fed-ex i had much more reliable and informative shipping information |
| 15:45.22 | Dmitry_Platonov | xzcvczx, monotone does not builds for me. :-/ |
| 15:45.43 | Dmitry_Platonov | can it be gcc-4.2 related? |
| 15:46.08 | xzcvczx | monotone compiled fine for me using gcc-4.1 |
| 15:46.15 | xzcvczx | am installing 4.2 now |
| 15:46.28 | xzcvczx | but then after that i am going to emerge 3.x to try that |
| 15:46.31 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2572 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/gtkbutton: * Make sure labels that are inside buttons are white. |
| 15:47.47 | xzcvczx | Dmitry_Platonov: as qemu definately wont compile with 4.x |
| 15:48.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | xzcvczx, I have 3.4.6 and 4.1.2 too. |
| 15:50.35 | *** join/#openmoko ratur (n=ratur@174.33-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 15:50.42 | xzcvczx | change the profile using ummm whats it called |
| 15:50.51 | xzcvczx | gcc-config |
| 15:50.52 | Dmitry_Platonov | gcc-config. I know |
| 15:51.02 | xzcvczx | does that not help? |
| 15:51.08 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-644d6e50e72cc352) |
| 15:51.26 | Dmitry_Platonov | I'll check another day. |
| 15:51.30 | xzcvczx | oh ok |
| 15:52.02 | *** part/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 15:53.15 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:53.25 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:54.52 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=macmac@host81-155-111-229.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:56.04 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 16:04.05 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03chris * r2573 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c src/today.h): Add a tasks list (mostly stolen from matchbox-panel-2) |
| 16:04.07 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 16:04.21 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 16:05.40 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 16:06.23 | hhf423 | whoooo http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/neo-scroll.avi |
| 16:07.00 | hhf423 | smooooth |
| 16:07.01 | stefan_schmidt | hhf423: Also nice: http://chrislord.net/files/mokofingerscroll.ogg |
| 16:07.04 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:07.17 | robtaylor | hmm, it doesnt compare well with the iphone scroll |
| 16:07.28 | alp | smooth like a barrel of sandpaper |
| 16:07.35 | robtaylor | alp: spot on |
| 16:07.42 | SpeedEvil | Smooth scrolling is a bitch. |
| 16:07.44 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 16:07.50 | robtaylor | also, the scroll doesn't follow the finger |
| 16:07.57 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if there are any general purpose DMA engines. |
| 16:07.59 | robtaylor | which it does on the iphone |
| 16:07.59 | hhf423 | stefan_schmidt: yes, thats the same |
| 16:08.19 | robtaylor | SpeedEvil: Xrender should be good enough |
| 16:08.20 | stefan_schmidt | hhf423: No, one is one the phone and one on the pc ;) |
| 16:08.28 | stefan_schmidt | robtaylor: Send patches. :) |
| 16:08.31 | SpeedEvil | robtaylor: the hardware |
| 16:08.32 | hhf423 | ah, ok |
| 16:08.47 | SpeedEvil | robtaylor: there is no blitter, it's a dumb framebuffere. |
| 16:08.51 | robtaylor | SpeedEvil: well, GTA02 has some pretty hard pixel-pushing power |
| 16:08.56 | *** join/#openmoko phrozen77 (n=phrozen7@unaffiliated/phrozen77) |
| 16:09.01 | SpeedEvil | Ah - I was assuming this was 01. |
| 16:09.11 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: it is |
| 16:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko mallum (n=mallum@host86-138-105-250.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:09.19 | robtaylor | SpeedEvil: we could do fullscreen scrolling on planer framebuffers on the atari ST |
| 16:09.33 | robtaylor | SpeedEvil: i'd expect a 220MHz samsung to be able to do it |
| 16:09.37 | robster | robtaylor, alp: the video framerate is set to 10fps. |
| 16:09.42 | SpeedEvil | At 60Hz and 640*480*3? |
| 16:10.24 | robtaylor | robster: so its smoother IRL? |
| 16:10.24 | SpeedEvil | That's 165 megabytes/second of data transfer. |
| 16:10.48 | robtaylor | robster: so its smoother IRL? http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/neo-scroll.avi doesntr seem much smoother |
| 16:11.02 | robtaylor | robster: ans the physics are still wrong ;) |
| 16:11.09 | Vegar | it's just a matter of details |
| 16:11.20 | robster | robtaylor: koen's uses the old pixmap theme. |
| 16:11.52 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@dsl-64-30-214-21.static.linkline.com) |
| 16:11.56 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:12.07 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@dsl-64-30-214-21.static.linkline.com) |
| 16:13.21 | robtaylor | robster: so thats a yes then? :) |
| 16:14.03 | *** part/#openmoko schula (i=uli@dino.spamt.net) |
| 16:14.23 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.114.20) |
| 16:15.54 | robster | robtaylor: yeh, grab the code and try it out. |
| 16:16.06 | *** join/#openmoko emre (n=emre@85.104.30.190) |
| 16:16.24 | robster | robtaylor: we demoed it to lots of people at GUADEC who all seemed impressed. |
| 16:17.13 | emre | hi ppl. i got the device and it is sweet. |
| 16:17.23 | emre | got a question, how can I learn the imei number? |
| 16:17.56 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 16:19.02 | *** join/#openmoko ka05 (n=grim@91.186.12.189) |
| 16:19.04 | abraxa_ | robtaylor: I honestly fail to see what in koen's movie is not smooth |
| 16:19.06 | hena | usually, it's written into your phone |
| 16:19.58 | hena | if not, it's prolly on some paper that came with the phone |
| 16:21.02 | ka05 | Has anyone here got a neo in the UK yet? |
| 16:21.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/fr]] [[Trademark_Policy]] [[Main_Page]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Thomas_Mathiesen]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[Building_Gadget_USB_Module]] |
| 16:22.15 | Zaireeka_ | ka05: yes, arrived today |
| 16:22.18 | emre | I can't see it written anywhere. i wonder if I see it from software, say /dev/something.. |
| 16:22.25 | ka05 | you have to pay customs charges? |
| 16:22.39 | Zaireeka_ | £43.41 |
| 16:22.49 | ka05 | :( Just ordered mine. |
| 16:22.55 | ka05 | How long did it take? |
| 16:23.25 | Zaireeka_ | I chose express delivery so it was 3 days from dispatch to arrival |
| 16:23.32 | sandos | abraxa_: its lagging atleast 1s after the finger? Its ot unsmooth, but the movement is not tracking the finger at all |
| 16:23.46 | abraxa_ | sandos: That's intentional |
| 16:23.51 | sandos | ah ok |
| 16:23.58 | ka05 | I chose that too, so that's good news! Thanks! |
| 16:24.19 | prpplague | nbd: hmm, definetly not receiving sdio interrupts via the sdio controller on the s3c2410 |
| 16:24.31 | sandos | Im very sensitive to laggy interfaces :) (most phones today have this problem, espcialy Nokias I think) |
| 16:24.43 | sandos | the 3310/3330 were beatiful in that regrd |
| 16:24.50 | abraxa_ | sandos: It's so that you don't have to constantly have to do the finger movement if you want to keep scrolling - just do it fast once and it will keep scrolling for a bit |
| 16:25.00 | nbd | prpplague: can you do io_rw_extended on it? |
| 16:25.15 | sandos | abraxa_: thats not what I meant. it doesnt seem to react to the movement for quite a while |
| 16:25.38 | sandos | anyway, I will shut up now. ITs not that important.. I will explore this whenever I buy a device :) |
| 16:25.41 | xzcvczx | ka05: you are probably looking at least 2weeks to a month until you get yours |
| 16:26.07 | abraxa_ | sandos: My personal opinion is that it's very usable, that's all I can say really :) |
| 16:26.08 | prpplague | nbd: i've not tested with your patches/code yet |
| 16:26.30 | prpplague | nbd: i was mainly trying to find out if the irq's from card to host were working, and they aren't |
| 16:26.39 | *** join/#openmoko bassinboy (n=Jared@205.196.178.27) |
| 16:27.14 | ka05 | xzcvczx: okay :( |
| 16:27.51 | prpplague | nbd: thats definetly going to implact hardware and performance for next gen neo with wifi |
| 16:28.26 | bassinboy | prpplague: sorry, I just joined, but what is going to impact performace ? |
| 16:28.34 | Cyphi^ | cd l |
| 16:28.47 | Cyphi^ | oops :) |
| 16:29.25 | prpplague | bassinboy: i'm working on a similiar hardware platform as the neo with sdio, it appears that the sdio controller on the s3c2410(and possible the s3c2440) is not detecting sdio interrupts from the card to the host |
| 16:29.52 | bassinboy | that's not goo |
| 16:29.57 | bassinboy | good, rather |
| 16:30.33 | *** join/#openmoko FourDoll1rs (n=FourDoll@59-104-129-124.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 16:30.35 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07DBC7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:30.37 | prpplague | bassinboy: yea |
| 16:31.05 | prpplague | bassinboy: if thats the case, an external interrupt is going to have to be used for card to host irqs |
| 16:31.18 | bassinboy | should be resolved before October you think? |
| 16:31.20 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-76-203-160-39.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 16:32.09 | prpplague | bassinboy: i can't speak for the fic/neo people as i have no involvement with them other than to discuss s3c2410/2440 sdio code issues |
| 16:32.27 | robtaylor | abraxa_: the last bit, where he scrolls it quickly |
| 16:33.30 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (n=me@dD5763257.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:34.11 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 16:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:34.14 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 16:34.16 | mallum | robtaylor: try it yourself and see what you think. You cant tell that much from a crappy camera phone video and using a very slow theme engine |
| 16:34.47 | SpeedEvil | ka05: IMO 2 weeks would be _very_ optimistic. |
| 16:34.57 | abraxa_ | robtaylor: Welp, all I can say is that I've seen it live on a P1 and found it smooth - the P2 will have even more horse power so I'm not worried at all :) |
| 16:35.36 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: well cmon you dont want to beat him when hes down |
| 16:36.22 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8565.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:37.16 | mave_pan | Hello everyone. Just got my phone and after some trial and error was able to flash the kernel and rootfs. But I think the USB reset froze my linux laptop. Anybody else had the same experience? |
| 16:37.20 | *** part/#openmoko bassinboy (n=Jared@205.196.178.27) |
| 16:38.55 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: yeah - it's just IMO I'd rather be informed. |
| 16:39.21 | LarstiQ | SpeedEvil: amen. |
| 16:40.12 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Maf37.m.pppool.de) |
| 16:40.38 | xzcvczx | :P yeah me too |
| 16:42.36 | *** part/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-76-203-160-39.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:42.47 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 16:46.10 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:46.11 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:46.54 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=Administ@pD953AF12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
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| 16:48.07 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:48.50 | robtaylor | mallum: i'm sure any smoothness issues are fixable, the main thing that worries me is if its possible to get the physics right with gtk |
| 16:49.05 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 16:49.20 | sandos | robtaylor: uh, would would it not be? What does that have to do with GTK? |
| 16:49.26 | *** join/#openmoko noon (n=noon@p57B27A3E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:49.30 | noon | hello |
| 16:50.10 | sandos | s/would w/why w/ |
| 16:51.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: OpenMoko future. |
| 16:51.56 | mallum | robtaylor: I didn't realise you were experienced enough with gtk to make that kind of judgement |
| 16:52.48 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 16:52.48 | daMaestro | so, my phone should be here today; is the report still that AT&T sims are not working? |
| 16:53.01 | squalyl | bye |
| 16:53.27 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
| 16:54.14 | robtaylor | mallum: harsh, but fair.. |
| 16:54.37 | *** join/#openmoko tnt_ (n=tnt@231.253-241-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:54.41 | robtaylor | mallum: tell you what, i'll try submitting a patch ;) |
| 16:54.54 | mickeyl | that sounds good |
| 16:54.55 | mickeyl | :) |
| 16:55.10 | *** part/#openmoko val-at-work (n=Creon@targ4.ponzo.net) |
| 16:55.10 | mallum | robtaylor: yes please. actions speak louder than words |
| 16:57.04 | mallum | Im pretty sure its not yet perfect |
| 16:57.11 | robtaylor | mallum: is there a test app for it? |
| 16:57.13 | rushforth | daMaestro: still not working |
| 16:57.17 | *** join/#openmoko val-at-work (n=Creon@targ4.ponzo.net) |
| 16:58.01 | robtaylor | ah, applications/fingerscroll groovy |
| 16:58.03 | mallum | robtaylor: youd have to ask chris , I am not aware of details on it |
| 16:58.14 | daMaestro | rushforth, grrr |
| 16:58.26 | daMaestro | that royally sucks |
| 16:58.32 | mallum | robtaylor: make sure you try it on device though and with correct theme :) |
| 16:58.33 | rushforth | daMaestro: I just ordered a 2g 32k sim from ebay that is att compatible |
| 16:58.52 | rushforth | daMaestro: only was 10 dollars (including shipping) |
| 16:58.55 | daMaestro | rushforth, please let us know |
| 16:59.01 | rushforth | daMaestro: indeed |
| 16:59.49 | daMaestro | rushforth, i'm also going to go poke some people that i know @ att and see if there is a "special" program to get 2G sims |
| 17:00.35 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:00.38 | rushforth | daMaestro: nice. worth a shot! |
| 17:00.53 | robtaylor | mallum: no device here, i'm afriad :/ |
| 17:01.16 | noon | mickeyl: this is the scrollbarstuff for the left and right buttons http://windbuechse.samba-tng.org/gtkscrollbar_leftright.tar.bz |
| 17:01.42 | mickeyl | noon: ah right. thanks |
| 17:03.12 | mallum | robtaylor: ah :/ maybe use an n800 (not sure how good that would be) |
| 17:03.45 | robtaylor | mallum: yeah. I'll try getting it right with mouse pointer first ;) |
| 17:04.21 | daMaestro | who is wiki user Harrisonmetz ? |
| 17:04.57 | daMaestro | i just wonder if the information added is for a non-working SIM card |
| 17:05.04 | daMaestro | i think it is because it is 3G |
| 17:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 17:06.38 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: no, IIRC some have tested 'broken' SIMs in GSM only phones, with success. |
| 17:08.55 | Vegar | I have a 3G SIM in my five year old siemens C55 |
| 17:09.09 | daMaestro | does it work in the neo? |
| 17:11.08 | PBeck | have anybody a neopouch here and can shot a photo from the place were we can keep the stylus? |
| 17:11.10 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host63-122-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:13.44 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-176-001.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:14.23 | Zaireeka_ | I don't think the problem is with all 3G SIM cards, I was able to make a call with a 3G, it may be AT&T specific |
| 17:15.58 | daMaestro | Zaireeka_, ahh... good to know |
| 17:16.21 | daMaestro | Zaireeka_, so more and more it sounds like SIM Sentry? |
| 17:16.23 | daMaestro | ;-) |
| 17:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@gprs-ggsn6-nat.mobil.telenor.no) |
| 17:20.20 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z4950.z.pppool.de) |
| 17:20.26 | FuzzyCat | ahh... wont be then..:wq |
| 17:20.38 | FuzzyCat | Ouch! |
| 17:20.52 | xzcvczx | FuzzyCat: ??? |
| 17:21.13 | xzcvczx | damn.... how much |
| 17:21.17 | FuzzyCat | 87.90 |
| 17:21.19 | FuzzyCat | euros |
| 17:21.25 | xzcvczx | :O |
| 17:21.28 | mbuf | FuzzyCat, from where? |
| 17:21.28 | xzcvczx | ouch |
| 17:21.39 | FuzzyCat | .nl |
| 17:22.26 | mbuf | i didn't receive any tracking information, whom should i ask? just got an order shipped confirmation from rt |
| 17:22.33 | xzcvczx | i emailed UPS asking wtf is up with their crap tracking system.... havent got a reply yet but they have added the billing information received to my tracking page |
| 17:22.53 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 17:23.21 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 17:23.56 | borg_ | is their someone from german who got his neo today? |
| 17:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 17:24.11 | borg_ | i have to pay 180€ VAT for two neos |
| 17:24.13 | borg_ | wtf? |
| 17:24.13 | calamous1_ | DaMeastro: I'm on the line with att right now |
| 17:24.25 | borg_ | thats nearly 40% |
| 17:24.57 | borg_ | do have to pay chinese and german VAT or something like that? |
| 17:25.04 | calamous1_ | Of course AT&T dosent really want to tell me stuff |
| 17:25.13 | guaqua | borg_: doesn't sound right |
| 17:25.18 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: After playing phone tag with at&t I'm now on hold for tech support |
| 17:25.46 | guaqua | the vat in germany isn't that high, right? |
| 17:25.46 | calamous1_ | They asked for my phone model number I otld them they would not know about it. they said they would |
| 17:25.56 | borg_ | guaqua: 19% |
| 17:26.04 | mbuf | calamous1_, is the call going out of the country? :) |
| 17:26.06 | borg_ | its exactly doubled i think |
| 17:26.11 | calamous1_ | Then I said its a neo 1973 rev1.4 and they said, of course, they did not know about it |
| 17:26.37 | calamous1_ | No. I'm in the U.S. and I'm calling at&t to inquire about the sim card problems |
| 17:27.01 | mbuf | calamous1_, i meant the tech support call |
| 17:27.16 | calamous1_ | Not sure, still on hold |
| 17:27.23 | calamous1_ | I'm going to ask what voltage their sim card is |
| 17:27.31 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@239.Red-88-0-77.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:27.37 | *** join/#openmoko jean` (n=jean@85-18-201-163.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:27.56 | mjr | (my prepaid sim seems to "work" in addition to my regular one, as far as the Neo is actually working :] ) |
| 17:28.26 | calamous1_ | mjr: is your prepaid at&t? |
| 17:28.44 | mjr | no, DNA; I'm in Finland |
| 17:28.55 | mjr | just thought I'd provide more datapoints on sims that work |
| 17:28.55 | calamous1_ | mjr: well. thats why it works ;p |
| 17:29.12 | calamous1_ | mjr: If you were in "the land of the free" your phone would not work |
| 17:29.42 | calamous1_ | (For anyone who dosent know, for some strange reason, the U.S. Calls itself "the land of the free") |
| 17:29.52 | calamous1_ | havent figured out why? |
| 17:29.53 | ckuethe | and the home of the brave |
| 17:30.06 | mjr | calamous1_, yeah, I know. The top brass likes to make people think that, methinks. |
| 17:30.08 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 17:30.12 | mbuf | calamous1_, *called |
| 17:30.14 | SpeedEvil | Opensource ionosphere models. |
| 17:30.16 | SpeedEvil | http://ccmc.gsfc.nasa.gov/models/models_at_glance.php |
| 17:31.46 | mjr | required a hard reboot for gsmd to come back... |
| 17:32.20 | mjr | the gsm chip was probably in an unexpected state or something |
| 17:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:35.05 | mjr | yay, bidirectional voice if a call :) |
| 17:35.29 | cjb | woot. |
| 17:35.37 | mickeyl | models? |
| 17:35.39 | cjb | did you need a particular asound.state? |
| 17:35.46 | cjb | I couldn't seem to get mic working with mine. |
| 17:35.49 | mickeyl | ah. not what I expected. |
| 17:35.52 | mjr | on the gsmheadset.state; the wiki-linked gsmhandset.state didn't seem to enable the |
| 17:35.58 | mjr | mic |
| 17:36.29 | mjr | yeah, the image's gsmhandset.state had that terrible feedback, the wiki-linked silenced my mike |
| 17:36.44 | mjr | aand gsmd died again |
| 17:36.51 | mjr | so not ready for prime time :] |
| 17:38.17 | mbuf | where do you folks send bug reports, updates? i don't see many e-mails in device-owners or kernel |
| 17:38.21 | mjr | but yeah, if someone has an actually working gsmhandset.state, I would be somewhat interested; I'm not feeling like tinkering with the mixer right now |
| 17:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 17:41.27 | mjr | I'm pretty sure the mic at least physically works though, what with that feedback on the faulty state ;) |
| 17:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 17:41.55 | daMaestro | MWhahahahahahha |
| 17:41.58 | daMaestro | my phone just got here |
| 17:42.06 | mjr | daMaestro, *hi-5* |
| 17:43.08 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFFA76.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:43.31 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: I called at&t and the guy was very helpful, but he did not know the voltage of the sim card |
| 17:43.41 | cjb_ie | so he wasn't that helpful then ;) |
| 17:43.58 | calamous1_ | He wanted to be helpful |
| 17:44.24 | juri_ | he wanted a paycheck. to get that paycheck, he needs to appear to want to be helpful. :) |
| 17:44.24 | cjb_ie | ah, he obviously hasn't been working there long enough for apathy to set in. |
| 17:44.39 | calamous1_ | anyone know why I can't SSH into my phone anymore. I turned it on for the first time today and it said the SSH key changed so I had to remove it from my knownhosts file but It wont let me in |
| 17:44.45 | daMaestro | it's scary that they bough brokenmoko.com |
| 17:45.26 | daMaestro | so, the "some assembly required" is going to make a nice coaster |
| 17:45.26 | daMaestro | lol |
| 17:45.38 | calamous1_ | Yeah. I liked that one too |
| 17:45.50 | cjb_ie | who bought brokenmoko? |
| 17:45.53 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-195-138.netcologne.de) |
| 17:46.01 | mickeyl | who? |
| 17:46.30 | mickeyl | http://openmoko.com/about-01-coreteam.html |
| 17:46.50 | noon | SpeedEvil: do you know what clock bias in ns means? |
| 17:47.37 | cjb_ie | i would imagine it's how far the clock edge leads or trails the data edge, in nanoseconds |
| 17:48.45 | daMaestro | cjb_ie, you must have not gotten your neo yet |
| 17:48.58 | SpeedEvil | noon - in what context? |
| 17:49.21 | cjb_ie | daMaestro: not getting one, gta02 maybe. too busy to do any devel work atm :( |
| 17:49.23 | noon | to get the 'adjusted' pseudorange out of my receiver i have to "adjust pseudorange by subtracting clock bias times the speed of light" |
| 17:49.51 | SpeedEvil | Going to depend on the reciever. |
| 17:49.54 | SpeedEvil | I think. |
| 17:50.12 | SpeedEvil | Several nanoseconds probably. |
| 17:50.16 | noon | SpeedEvil: I try to get the pseudorange and the carrier frequency out of my sirf3 so I can compare it with elronds values on sunday |
| 17:50.44 | happycube | cjb - harald on july 3rd |
| 17:50.59 | happycube | i think that was right about when he was being driven mad |
| 17:50.59 | SpeedEvil | noon: I can print them off easily. Though only to 1m/s accuracy. |
| 17:51.14 | Zaireeka_ | I thought brokenmoko was pretty funny |
| 17:51.41 | happycube | yeah |
| 17:51.48 | happycube | it looks like harald personally bought it |
| 17:51.49 | noon | SpeedEvil: so all my cabeling was for nothing? |
| 17:52.44 | SpeedEvil | well - having 1mm/s or so would be nicer. Though I'm awaiting a response on the softwares ML to see if it can do 1mm/s |
| 17:53.38 | daMaestro | blah.. that really, really sucks that GPS isn't working |
| 17:53.40 | ckuethe | noon: try find a sirfstar2 |
| 17:53.45 | daMaestro | when is that lameness going to go away? |
| 17:54.00 | ckuethe | they're less sensitive than sirf3, but more hackab;e |
| 17:54.02 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: the binary driver is being distributed 'really soon'. |
| 17:54.06 | ckuethe | *hackable |
| 17:54.07 | noon | daMaestro: when you help maybe faster |
| 17:54.09 | happycube | didn't some phones have it? |
| 17:54.13 | daMaestro | yeah, i just read that |
| 17:54.25 | happycube | i haven't checked my flash dump yet |
| 17:54.32 | daMaestro | noon, hey! i've been twiddling my thumbs waiting on ups |
| 17:54.33 | daMaestro | not my fault |
| 17:54.35 | daMaestro | ;-) |
| 17:55.08 | happycube | oooh - koen's video looks nice |
| 17:55.24 | happycube | i think i might have to try a 2007.2 build ;) |
| 17:55.55 | mbuf | i have sent e-mail to William asking for tracking information; an e-mail sent to rt at openmoko dot com, gives a reply "Permission Denied" :( |
| 17:56.05 | noon | SpeedEvil: what values would help, from a working gps receiver? |
| 17:56.06 | happycube | (or a current angstrom build...) |
| 17:56.55 | calamous1_ | hmm! How come when I start the phone *sometimes* gsmd is running and somtimes its not? |
| 17:57.09 | mickeyl | nasty timing bugs :/ |
| 17:57.14 | calamous1_ | same simcard and everything. but like on every 3rd boot its up |
| 17:57.37 | calamous1_ | mickey thats messed up |
| 17:57.58 | sannes | noticed gsmd dies quite often when playing around with it (libgsmd-tool) |
| 17:58.00 | happycube | gsmd might be starting too soon...? |
| 17:58.14 | happycube | is there an arm version of valgrind? |
| 17:58.20 | ewon | nope. |
| 17:58.23 | ewon | x86 only, alas. |
| 17:58.24 | happycube | thought not |
| 17:58.30 | ewon | last I checked, anyway |
| 17:58.31 | happycube | damn hard to port too, i'd imagine |
| 17:58.32 | calamous1_ | not even amd64 |
| 17:58.36 | happycube | ouch |
| 17:58.47 | ewon | given it's a whole freakin VM it wouldn't be so much a port as a re-write :) |
| 17:58.50 | happycube | yeah ;) |
| 17:58.51 | SpeedEvil | noon: IMO - not much really. |
| 17:59.11 | happycube | it'd be interesting to add valgrind-type 'hooks' to qemu but that would be very hard too |
| 17:59.42 | happycube | you would have to know the codebase as well as fabrice bellard to pull it off... ;) |
| 17:59.51 | SpeedEvil | noon: IMO - the key is a nice long trace with several satellites sweeping the range of velocities. |
| 17:59.55 | daMaestro | does anyone know the license if dfu-util ? |
| 17:59.59 | daMaestro | s/if/of/ |
| 18:00.00 | SpeedEvil | Maybe a 6 hour trace. |
| 18:00.02 | daMaestro | i want to package it |
| 18:00.03 | happycube | gpl2 i'd imagine |
| 18:00.21 | daMaestro | yeah.. it is thanks. |
| 18:00.45 | daMaestro | i'm basically not going to use any util without packaging it first |
| 18:00.54 | happycube | confirmed |
| 18:02.39 | noon | from HH or the sirf3? |
| 18:02.39 | mbuf | who is the contact person (and e-mail) for projects.openmoko.org? |
| 18:03.33 | SpeedEvil | noon - HH |
| 18:04.02 | SpeedEvil | noon - the confirmation that it is really doppler can be gotten from longtrace - looking at all the sats. |
| 18:04.06 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: How do I get the GPS driver since my phone did not ship with a rootfs |
| 18:04.21 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: you hope that someone will DCC or email you it. |
| 18:04.34 | SpeedEvil | It's copyrighted software, and cannot be legally distributed. |
| 18:04.51 | SpeedEvil | It's going to be releast 'real soon'. |
| 18:05.00 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: lol ty. Could the neo team not find any GPS that was open drivers |
| 18:05.13 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: larger, higher current, more expensive. |
| 18:05.44 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: and potentially less flexible. |
| 18:05.57 | calamous1_ | Iam not making any judgement, but they settled for a "tainted" (in terms of software licences) system for a better GPS than an open one but worse |
| 18:06.52 | aloril | calamous1_: it was originally to be wince mobile I think and GPS was before Harald came in to project |
| 18:06.53 | SpeedEvil | noon - the next bit to be done is to attempt to work out the signal output on various dopplers watching gllins output. |
| 18:06.59 | cjb_ie | and there was me thinking all one needed was sirfmon :/ |
| 18:07.04 | aloril | GTA02 might have fully free GPS |
| 18:07.06 | mickeyl | mbuf: just mail to -devel list |
| 18:07.17 | mbuf | mickeyl, ok |
| 18:07.43 | cjb_ie | will it be as good (sensitive, multichannel) as sirf3 though? |
| 18:08.14 | SpeedEvil | aloril: It's quite possible that a OSS driver will be at least partially functional by Oct. |
| 18:08.48 | SpeedEvil | The hardware is _certainly_ not changing in that major a way. |
| 18:08.52 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah, it sounds reverse engineering is proceeding nicely |
| 18:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-021-174.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:11.38 | *** part/#openmoko superweasel (n=gjohnson@superweasel.com) |
| 18:13.47 | daMaestro | lol |
| 18:13.50 | mjr | curious, can't unmount the microsd; "Inappropriate ioctl for device" |
| 18:13.55 | daMaestro | i have not even taken the neo out of the box |
| 18:14.55 | daMaestro | btw, if anyone inside OM/FIC wants the srpms for all the software i am packaging, just let me know |
| 18:15.24 | daMaestro | my only current target is fc6+ ... and there are plenty of rpm based distros that could use the srpm |
| 18:15.33 | daMaestro | i would expect i'll manage the epel branch too |
| 18:15.44 | mickeyl | daMaestro: drop us a note @ the devel list, please. |
| 18:15.51 | daMaestro | will do |
| 18:16.41 | mjr | hahaa :) |
| 18:17.04 | mjr | bluetooth keyboard hooks up nicely |
| 18:17.19 | mickeyl | to the Neo? |
| 18:17.24 | mjr | yeah |
| 18:17.34 | mickeyl | excellent! |
| 18:17.40 | mickeyl | mjr: please blog about it :) |
| 18:17.49 | mickeyl | sigh |
| 18:17.56 | mjr | just enabled bt, and ran hidd --connect [address] |
| 18:17.56 | chris^ | Bluetooth is not that I want to use for sending out my passwords ;) |
| 18:18.13 | mjr | chris^, yeah well, that's why we have ssh public key auth :) |
| 18:18.24 | chris^ | over bluetooth? |
| 18:18.29 | chris^ | nice! |
| 18:18.35 | mjr | umm, no |
| 18:18.40 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@90.163.25.153) |
| 18:18.46 | Mandarino | I got it!!!!!!!! |
| 18:18.50 | chris^ | well, but if I type ma passwords on the bluetooth keyboard |
| 18:18.52 | mjr | I just meant that one can ssh out of the phone without typing in passwords |
| 18:18.53 | chris^ | and anyone sniffs it |
| 18:18.55 | Mandarino | :_) |
| 18:18.58 | mbuf | what is the simple and best way to parse files on openmoko? does gtk have some functions; if I use awk how can i interface it with gtk? |
| 18:19.08 | chris^ | mjr: :) |
| 18:19.18 | chris^ | is anyone from the devs at the ccc camp? |
| 18:19.20 | mjr | but if you have in-phone passwords, yeah, a more careful person will use the on-screen keyboard for that |
| 18:19.53 | mickeyl | chris^: yes. a lot of. at least Laforge, Stefan Schmidt, Daniel 'alphaone' Willmann, Joachim 'Roh' Steiger |
| 18:20.00 | mickeyl | Jan Shoragan Luebbe |
| 18:20.02 | mickeyl | possibly me |
| 18:20.12 | chris^ | ahh cool |
| 18:20.32 | chris^ | well I don't know that Harald will come |
| 18:20.37 | chris^ | but will be really interesting |
| 18:20.42 | mickeyl | he's deep into CCC, he won't miss that |
| 18:20.47 | chris^ | ;) |
| 18:21.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2008]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[Devirginator/it]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Devirginator]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Camera]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Carriers/TMobile]] [[FAQ/fr]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] |
| 18:26.06 | happycube | sounds like a fun meetup |
| 18:26.25 | zecke | mickeyl: you have to come |
| 18:26.50 | zecke | mickeyl: I won't be able to complete the GSoC stuff if you don't visit us |
| 18:26.53 | mickeyl | zecke: i would love to... but given my insane travel schedule this year i don't know whether I can do it |
| 18:26.55 | mickeyl | hah |
| 18:26.58 | mickeyl | that's blackmailing :D |
| 18:27.19 | abraxa_ | zecke: You gotta meet him, too, yes :) |
| 18:27.43 | mickeyl | i already received internal pressure for doing more talking than developing lately... |
| 18:28.06 | abraxa_ | They just don't realize what you're doing for the community. |
| 18:28.08 | abraxa_ | ;D |
| 18:28.11 | mickeyl | :) |
| 18:28.28 | zecke | mickeyl: then come to the camp, leave your phone at home and focus on hacking (at least this is my plan) |
| 18:28.42 | daMaestro | zecke, what are you doing for SoC? |
| 18:28.44 | mickeyl | the thing is... I'm working since a couple of weeks on that 18 months software roadmap and it goes slow like molasses |
| 18:28.53 | mickeyl | zecke: sounds like a good plan |
| 18:29.02 | ewon | heh, here was me all pleased with getting 1000hits a month to my website.. according to a mate in the know, I'd get around 10eur/year with Adsense ;_; |
| 18:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 18:32.29 | *** part/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 18:33.30 | mickeyl | bbiab |
| 18:35.35 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:38.30 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 18:41.47 | xzcvczx | sweet should have phone by 5pm thursday |
| 18:42.16 | ozarka | xzcvczx: Are you part of the 2nd shipment? |
| 18:42.29 | xzcvczx | nah i think i was one of the last first shipment |
| 18:42.33 | xzcvczx | 2540 |
| 18:43.13 | ozarka | You're one of those non-US people, aren't you? :-) |
| 18:43.17 | robtaylor | mallum: well, its certainly possible :) |
| 18:43.35 | xzcvczx | ozarka: i dont know whether to say forutunately or unfortunately to that |
| 18:43.42 | xzcvczx | in this case its unfortunate |
| 18:43.50 | xzcvczx | but in all other cases its fortunate |
| 18:44.13 | ozarka | I ordered an orange unit and my priveledged American status isn't helping me at all. |
| 18:44.27 | xzcvczx | whats your number |
| 18:44.30 | robtaylor | damn, he's gone :/ |
| 18:44.53 | ozarka | 2742 |
| 18:44.58 | robtaylor | stefan_schmidt: you might want to give this a play: http://codethink.co.uk/~robtaylor/fingerscroll-more-physics.patch |
| 18:45.09 | ozarka | I wasn't in the first 500 anyway. |
| 18:45.14 | xzcvczx | yeah |
| 18:45.29 | xzcvczx | based on P1_Owners i guess i was one of the last for the first |
| 18:45.59 | robtaylor | stefan_schmidt: its not perfect, there's some corner cases, approximation errors, and no friction on stop, but its worth a play :) |
| 18:46.15 | xzcvczx | ozarka: at least you dont have to pay $60 USD shipping wait a week and not even get up to date tracking information |
| 18:46.59 | ozarka | You're in New Zealand? |
| 18:47.24 | xzcvczx | yerp |
| 18:47.54 | ozarka | Do you get your shipments via trained sheep? |
| 18:48.11 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 18:48.12 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 18:48.16 | xzcvczx | nah the sheep train the americans to deliver them |
| 18:48.33 | ozarka | Oh yeah, that would take a long time. :-) |
| 18:48.38 | xzcvczx | where in the states are you |
| 18:48.43 | ozarka | Texas |
| 18:48.53 | ozarka | So did they ship your device from China to the US then to NZ? |
| 18:49.20 | happycube | they shipped *all* devices from china->fremont, ca, us |
| 18:49.20 | xzcvczx | ozarka: yeah most of the americans die of old age before they can be taught how to do even simple things that it takes a dog 5 mins to learn like sit |
| 18:50.00 | xzcvczx | ozarka: indeed.... its an incredibly efficient way to do it... esspecially when there are people based in taiwan |
| 18:50.52 | ozarka | It will be a well travelled device by the time it gets to you. |
| 18:51.18 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CE98A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:51.30 | xzcvczx | ozarka: yes..... |
| 18:52.18 | Mandarino | Are Someone starting with SH1 ? |
| 18:54.59 | daMaestro | http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/i386/dfu-util-2573.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm if anyone wants it |
| 18:55.06 | daMaestro | i'm going to do some testing now |
| 18:56.10 | Mandarino | me too |
| 18:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 18:57.21 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 18:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77 (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:58.23 | xzcvczx | Mandarino: what number are you? |
| 18:59.18 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
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| 19:01.49 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.11.186) |
| 19:02.22 | StylusEater | the moss-pultz interview is up |
| 19:02.24 | StylusEater | the audio at least |
| 19:03.00 | BryceLeo | styluseater where at? |
| 19:03.23 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=macmac@host81-155-111-229.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:04.44 | daMaestro | ok, so i can figure out how to package software, but i can't figure out how to put the battery in |
| 19:04.46 | daMaestro | lol |
| 19:04.49 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:05.16 | StylusEater | littlehat.homelinux.org:8000 |
| 19:05.40 | StylusEater | http://littlehat.homelinux.org:8000/embedded/mosspultz.ogg |
| 19:05.41 | Elrond | Good evening. |
| 19:06.21 | Mandarino | xzcvczx: number of? |
| 19:06.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2574 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-feedreader2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 19:06.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-07-30 Holger Hans Peter Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 19:06.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Rename this application to feedreader2 to match the directory |
| 19:06.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: name. |
| 19:06.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * autogen.sh: |
| 19:06.49 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 19:06.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: |
| 19:07.17 | BryceLeo | thanks for the link StylusEater |
| 19:08.33 | StylusEater | BryceLeo: no prob. Thank Sean for doing the interview. :-) |
| 19:08.57 | BryceLeo | StylusEater: will do |
| 19:10.13 | mjr | StylusEater, you seem slashdotted |
| 19:10.36 | mjr | perhaps putting it on a torrent would've been more efficient :] |
| 19:11.25 | daMaestro | StylusEater, i can host it on my server |
| 19:11.30 | daMaestro | the ogg that is |
| 19:11.42 | daMaestro | ok, how do i install the damn battery |
| 19:11.43 | daMaestro | lol |
| 19:12.02 | daMaestro | for* |
| 19:12.03 | mjr | "put it in" :P |
| 19:12.18 | mjr | speed is picking up a bit, maybe people gave up ;) |
| 19:12.37 | daMaestro | ahh there it is |
| 19:13.00 | mjr | come now, putting the battery isn't finicky, the microsd and sim holder on the other hand seems to require gentleness |
| 19:13.30 | lpotter | and small fingers |
| 19:13.33 | daMaestro | i actually didn't see the little slot on the top to open it up! |
| 19:13.34 | daMaestro | lol |
| 19:13.38 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 19:13.40 | mjr | oh! |
| 19:13.52 | lpotter | use the guitar pick to open the battery case |
| 19:14.00 | daMaestro | done and done |
| 19:14.59 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.112.109) |
| 19:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko guest__ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 19:17.09 | xzcvczx | daMaestro: i hate you.... i have to wait another 2 days |
| 19:17.30 | xzcvczx | :P |
| 19:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@ACC8012C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:19.55 | Mandarino | What is the trick about "Set console to USB" ? |
| 19:20.05 | Mandarino | It doesn't works :( |
| 19:20.23 | daMaestro | xzcvczx, i had to pay, though: http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380251715251 |
| 19:20.38 | daMaestro | xzcvczx, UPS could not find where Denver, CO is located |
| 19:21.02 | daMaestro | (click on view package progress) |
| 19:21.12 | lpotter | UPS is like that |
| 19:21.19 | ScaredyCat | what? Shit? |
| 19:22.36 | daMaestro | ok, so i'm going to assume the 512 micro san goes into the lower slot, then the sim on top of that, so where does the 2g SD go? |
| 19:22.37 | daMaestro | lol |
| 19:22.55 | ckuethe | ups is to be avoided at nearly all costs |
| 19:23.04 | mjr | daMaestro, umm, nowhere? |
| 19:23.07 | mwester | get out yer soldering iron, and I'm sure you can fit it somewhere,daMaestro! |
| 19:23.14 | mjr | the phone only has one (micro)SD slot |
| 19:23.17 | ckuethe | well, ship ups only if fedex is >50% more |
| 19:23.44 | ScaredyCat | it would have been cheaper for me to actually fly to ca and pick it up |
| 19:23.45 | mjr | if you need more space, you need to upgrade to a (for example) 2G microSD |
| 19:24.45 | mjr | (still waiting on the official word on if larger microSDHDs will work, but the word is probably lagging because the cards themselves are too...) |
| 19:25.14 | ScaredyCat | what is hte max so far then 4g? |
| 19:25.35 | mjr | no, actually 2g is the max for standard microSD |
| 19:25.46 | ScaredyCat | shame... |
| 19:25.48 | jgm | Is anyone here able to access svn+ssh on projects.openmoko.org? When I try it I get a 'permission denied (publickey)' and no option to type in a password |
| 19:26.06 | mjr | _if_ microSDHDs are able to work with the hardware, that'd be 32G (which is ridiculous for the next limit) |
| 19:26.08 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 19:26.08 | ScaredyCat | key fnackd? |
| 19:26.37 | ScaredyCat | mjr: that'd be nice, it'd make for a good media player too :) |
| 19:27.15 | StylusEater | daMaestro: *fingers crossed* I don't get hit too hard. |
| 19:27.43 | ScaredyCat | http://www.bmcdigital.co.uk/catalog/browse/microsd/4gb-sandisk-micro-sdhc-memory-card-with-free-reader?gclid=CMKxhKWB0I0CFR4VEAodPStjgw |
| 19:27.51 | mjr | well, as said 4G microSDHDs are still not properly out, so no 32 any time soon |
| 19:27.53 | ScaredyCat | cheap to test it :) |
| 19:28.13 | mjr | anyway, I do intend to use it as a mediaplayer myself, just have to cycle the content a bit more |
| 19:28.31 | mjr | oh yeah, it was SDHC, not HD |
| 19:30.56 | ScaredyCat | in stock too |
| 19:31.37 | mjr | ScaredyCat, so they seem to say. Well, it'd be about time. |
| 19:31.46 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:31.50 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 19:32.14 | daMaestro | so, what the hell is the microsd transflash adapter for? |
| 19:32.25 | daMaestro | lol |
| 19:32.27 | mjr | even if the hardware is capable, it might require a kernel update btw |
| 19:32.29 | ScaredyCat | you get a free usb converter too... so maybe, even if it didn't work ing the body,you could use the usb host |
| 19:32.48 | mjr | daMaestro, micro/minisd cards usually include full SD adapters |
| 19:33.09 | mjr | just so you can stick them into your standard SD reader |
| 19:33.10 | daMaestro | ok, and up to a 2GB micro flash is supported? |
| 19:33.21 | BryceLeo | sdhc is just a different formatting system that can address more than 2gb so it should be possible |
| 19:33.41 | mjr | daMaestro, that much is certain, yes |
| 19:33.43 | daMaestro | i just don't want to go buy one and not have it work |
| 19:33.45 | daMaestro | ok cool |
| 19:33.52 | daMaestro | i'll most likely buy one today |
| 19:34.23 | daMaestro | hey, i'm more a software hacker... leave me alone |
| 19:34.23 | xzcvczx | i still cant believe that they used ups exclusivfely |
| 19:34.24 | daMaestro | lol |
| 19:34.59 | ScaredyCat | I can't believe the import duty/taxes... |
| 19:35.03 | mjr | BryceLeo, that's what we hope :] |
| 19:35.08 | BryceLeo | actually, sdhc cards should work as well. The difference is just that they use fat32 instead of fat formatting |
| 19:35.12 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: hopefully i wont have them |
| 19:35.27 | BryceLeo | s/faf/fat16 |
| 19:35.37 | ScaredyCat | faf was right ;) |
| 19:36.12 | mjr | at least a 2G one will be on my shopping list when this baby matures a bit |
| 19:36.42 | ScaredyCat | xzcvczx: sometimes stuff gets through without charges, it's just the luck of the draw |
| 19:36.46 | BryceLeo | haha first thing on my list is to actually get a gta01 |
| 19:37.09 | mjr | oh and by the way |
| 19:37.16 | mjr | fuck anyone who says the Neo don't look cool |
| 19:37.47 | ScaredyCat | mjr: is looks REALLY tiny though - from the pics |
| 19:37.49 | mjr | *nod* I have a SDHC supporting camera too... But it already has a fast 2G card |
| 19:38.11 | StylusEater | does anyone know of transcription software? ogg to text? |
| 19:38.13 | daxxar | Yay, my Neo is shipping in a day or so, guess they either got the second shipment way earlier, or I was part of the first shipment. |
| 19:38.18 | Mandarino | Why "Set console to USB" doesn't work in my NEO? It hides in 2 seconds... |
| 19:38.23 | guaqua | 1G microsd costs 30 euros |
| 19:38.25 | ScaredyCat | not my camera, SWMBO's - got it for her birthday... takes CF and sd :) |
| 19:38.28 | BryceLeo | mjr what cam? |
| 19:38.30 | daMaestro | ok.. even watching the device Kernel panic is hot |
| 19:38.30 | xzcvczx | ScaredyCat: well i dont know what the deal is with import duty into nz |
| 19:38.32 | daMaestro | !! |
| 19:39.06 | mjr | BryceLeo, Panasonic DMC-LZ7, a small pocket cam, but high end as those go |
| 19:39.06 | ScaredyCat | Mandarino: press the aux button every so often |
| 19:39.33 | Mandarino | If I press aux i come back to the Boot Menu :? |
| 19:39.34 | BryceLeo | mjr yeah i know those cams. I'm a wedding photographer. |
| 19:40.00 | mjr | me and the wife also "have" a proper Nikon camera, also using SD, but I don't recall what that is since it's usually at the wife's more artistic sister's ;) |
| 19:40.00 | BryceLeo | i usually use slrs, but my "take anywhere" cam is the fz-30 |
| 19:40.20 | daxxar | "SWMBO"? |
| 19:40.26 | BryceLeo | mjr: good choice on the nikon! I've got a d50 and a d200 |
| 19:40.32 | mjr | yeah, this one is purposefully a "take anywhere" |
| 19:40.48 | BryceLeo | mjr: yeah alwasy a good point |
| 19:41.01 | ScaredyCat | daxxar: She Who Must Be Obeyed |
| 19:41.27 | daxxar | Ah, a nice name for 'The Dragon' / 'My Better Half', I take it. ;-P |
| 19:41.36 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 19:41.41 | mjr | D80, was the Nikon |
| 19:42.07 | BryceLeo | mjr: very nice cam! |
| 19:42.15 | daxxar | SWMBO has a D70S (?) |
| 19:42.57 | BryceLeo | daxxar: d70s is a great cam too, i wish i had that as my backup instead of the d50 (so i didn't have to have dual cards (cf/sd)) |
| 19:43.45 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 19:43.47 | ScaredyCat | I think I might actually end up with the camera... and she'll get a snap snap camera :P |
| 19:43.57 | daxxar | I'm not much of a photographer, but she seems to take great pleasure in it, some of the pictures are quite nice. |
| 19:43.58 | daMaestro | Opening USB Device 0x0000:0x0000... |
| 19:43.58 | daMaestro | Claiming USB DFU Runtime Interface... |
| 19:43.58 | daMaestro | Determining device status: state = dfuERROR, status = 14 |
| 19:43.58 | daMaestro | dfuERROR, clearing status |
| 19:43.58 | daMaestro | error clear_status: error sending control message: Connection timed out |
| 19:44.03 | daMaestro | ok, that sure seems fun |
| 19:44.03 | ScaredyCat | stealth presents for me :D |
| 19:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko galexande (n=greg@shed.goonies.be) |
| 19:44.13 | mokobot | Come in #1841 your time is up |
| 19:44.18 | galexande | are they going to give me a phone? :( |
| 19:44.36 | BryceLeo | daxxar: the main thing is to enjoy it |
| 19:44.58 | daxxar | Yep, that she does :-) |
| 19:45.10 | ScaredyCat | phnaar phnaar |
| 19:45.30 | ScaredyCat | </finbar saunders> |
| 19:45.41 | daMaestro | so, when i try setting the console to usb, it seems like it wants to (it says press aux to return to the boot menu) and then that scrolls away and i end up back at the boot menu with the above error from dfu-util |
| 19:46.50 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:46.54 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:46.58 | BryceLeo | alrihgty guys i gotta head out |
| 19:47.01 | BryceLeo | bye all |
| 19:47.07 | daMaestro | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:47.24 | BryceLeo | ohh and i'll hopefully have the crash course up wtih a GTK example tonight or tomorro |
| 19:47.28 | BryceLeo | c ya |
| 19:48.02 | daMaestro | ok, i got it to go |
| 19:48.15 | daMaestro | i guess it is supposed to go right back to the boot loader |
| 19:48.28 | daMaestro | so, yeah.. someone needs to take pictures of all this |
| 19:48.31 | daMaestro | if i need to i can |
| 19:48.40 | ScaredyCat | please |
| 19:48.48 | ScaredyCat | mjr's are crap ;) |
| 19:49.03 | ScaredyCat | he didn't want to do more |
| 19:49.05 | mave_pan | damaestro: I had the same problem. I got fixed by following the instructions carefully and leave a bit of time between booting up/hooking it up to the laptop/starting to flash |
| 19:49.06 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 19:49.38 | daMaestro | mave_pan, i actually just incorrectly thought that it was supposed to stay at the " press aux to return to the boot menu" |
| 19:49.58 | mjr | hmm, I suppose I could take a few better pictures now |
| 19:50.12 | daMaestro | mjr, that would be awesome.. i can't take pictures until tonight |
| 19:50.13 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@74-140-187-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 19:50.22 | daMaestro | i am actually working on other things for $work while dealing with my neo |
| 19:50.22 | mjr | just wasn't up to it this morning |
| 19:50.43 | ScaredyCat | :) too excited |
| 19:51.03 | mave_pan | My exact problem also. |
| 19:51.33 | daMaestro | well.. i'd say the dfu-util package is working |
| 19:51.38 | daMaestro | it is flashing the rootfs image now |
| 19:51.50 | daMaestro | stupid usb 1.1 |
| 19:51.56 | SpeedEvil | It's not that. |
| 19:52.06 | SpeedEvil | It's slower as it doesn't use bulk transfers. |
| 19:52.20 | SpeedEvil | It would be done in around a minute if it did. |
| 19:52.43 | mjr | yeah I noted too that it's slower than usb 1.1 warrants |
| 19:54.10 | Elrond | Huh, DFU doesn't use bulk transfer? |
| 19:54.15 | SpeedEvil | No - AIUI. |
| 19:54.31 | xkr47 | would usb2.0 help ?-) |
| 19:54.41 | SpeedEvil | GTA04 |
| 19:55.18 | Elrond | OWM02 ;o) |
| 19:57.32 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 19:58.21 | *** part/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CE98A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:58.34 | mave_pan | damaestro: after I flashed my kernel, my laptop froze and I had to reboot my linux box. Just thought you might want to know :-) |
| 19:59.01 | mave_pan | Same goes for flashing the rootfs ... |
| 20:00.20 | ScaredyCat | it would be nice to be able to put stuff on the sdcard and boot it, and flash from SD |
| 20:00.24 | daMaestro | mave_pan, not here |
| 20:00.27 | daMaestro | mave_pan, what distro? |
| 20:01.17 | mave_pan | Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS release 4 (Nahant Update 4) |
| 20:01.30 | daMaestro | ahh... you wanna try my package? |
| 20:01.34 | mave_pan | especially customized for IBM employees :-) |
| 20:01.36 | daMaestro | i don't have a el4 target setup here |
| 20:01.36 | ScaredyCat | oooeer |
| 20:01.56 | daMaestro | hold on... let me see if i can fire off a epel build |
| 20:03.33 | daMaestro | mave_pan, do you have a build env? |
| 20:03.50 | daMaestro | mave_pan, something that you can run rpmbuild or mock under? (for el4) ... i've managed to not keep my el4 repo around |
| 20:04.07 | daMaestro | yeah, i only have 5 |
| 20:04.21 | mave_pan | Last message I saw in terminal window after flashing was : 'Resetting USB to switch back to runtime mode'. |
| 20:04.34 | daMaestro | i assume you used the prebuilt binary? |
| 20:04.41 | mave_pan | And then the caps lock light was blinking and keys got stuck |
| 20:05.49 | mave_pan | Never used rpmbuild, but it seems to be available on my box |
| 20:09.56 | daMaestro | mave_pan, http://repo.damaestro.us/fedora/personal/7/i386/dfu-util-2573.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm |
| 20:10.06 | daMaestro | mave_pan, then just: rpmbuild --rebuild dfu-util-2573.svn-1.fc7.src.rpm |
| 20:10.13 | daMaestro | that should give you an el4 rpm |
| 20:10.20 | mave_pan | what fix is in there? |
| 20:10.47 | daMaestro | well.. it is the latest checkout from svn; and will also be built against your local libs |
| 20:11.04 | daMaestro | most likely there is just something not playing nice with the binary only build |
| 20:11.09 | mave_pan | I'll give it a try |
| 20:11.17 | daMaestro | this will build from source for you... |
| 20:11.55 | daMaestro | i'm just curious if this *doesn't* crash for you |
| 20:12.00 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-178-101.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:12.02 | daMaestro | if not, i'll make sure to get it into epel4 |
| 20:13.19 | *** join/#openmoko expose (n=nobody@82.139.196.236) |
| 20:14.13 | mave_pan | I'll try it tomorrow. |
| 20:14.34 | daMaestro | cool |
| 20:14.35 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.184) |
| 20:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@189.pool85-50-115.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 20:15.02 | Mandarino | it's beautiful |
| 20:15.24 | SpeedEvil | Mandarino: /me is here. |
| 20:15.34 | Mandarino | :P |
| 20:15.59 | Mandarino | I've flashed the neo :P |
| 20:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@n128-227-55-104.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 20:16.10 | Mandarino | I was waiting for your help ... |
| 20:16.16 | SpeedEvil | Good. |
| 20:16.52 | *** join/#openmoko awu (n=Miranda@port-212-202-174-148.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:21.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Paderborn]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_OWL]] [[Devirginator/it]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[USB_Networking]] [[User_talk:DaMaestro]] [[Shipping_Notes]] [[GSM]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[Category:Platform]] and other changes |
| 20:21.59 | mjr | hmh, no good photos from me, no nice location/lighting here. But I did get some more crappy ones. |
| 20:22.16 | ScaredyCat | they'll do :) |
| 20:23.35 | StylusEater | photos? |
| 20:23.46 | mjr | yeah |
| 20:23.53 | StylusEater | may I have a link? |
| 20:24.31 | awu | hi everyone, do i really have to push the aux button every 30 seconds while flashing the rootfs? |
| 20:24.35 | ScaredyCat | http://mjr.iki.fi/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1772&g2_navId=x3ff9aa2c |
| 20:25.00 | awu | takes a long time and i do not want to risk a powerdown though |
| 20:25.16 | StylusEater | is that a boot screen? :-) |
| 20:25.17 | mjr | yeah the new pics are uploading there as we speak |
| 20:26.06 | awu | mjr: so you got your unit also today? :) |
| 20:26.10 | mjr | yes :) |
| 20:26.13 | StylusEater | awesome. |
| 20:26.36 | mjr | StylusEater, and it's the uboot menu, with firmware uploading |
| 20:27.10 | StylusEater | yum. |
| 20:27.24 | StylusEater | I can't get a device quite yet. Can't wait until I can. |
| 20:27.54 | awu | yay its booting, finally |
| 20:28.11 | awu | that is without kernel panix |
| 20:28.15 | awu | panic |
| 20:31.02 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-161-029.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:31.46 | mjr | all of the new crappy pictures now up at the previously mentioned gallery |
| 20:31.58 | *** part/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-021-174.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:32.12 | ScaredyCat | good stuff mjr : |
| 20:32.15 | ScaredyCat | ):) |
| 20:32.49 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-161-029.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:34.29 | ScaredyCat | that stylus looks like an icbm compared to the neo |
| 20:34.41 | MacNorth | heh |
| 20:36.26 | daMaestro | StylusEater, i am going to do a photo howto tonight |
| 20:36.27 | *** join/#openmoko charkins (n=casey@c-71-57-40-53.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:36.28 | *** join/#openmoko moko-bunny (n=reik@a054242.dsl.fsr.net) |
| 20:36.33 | daMaestro | StylusEater, for putting the damn thing together |
| 20:36.34 | daMaestro | lol |
| 20:40.02 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: Have you tried your neo with a 3g sim card yet? |
| 20:40.46 | daMaestro | calamous1_, no |
| 20:40.51 | daMaestro | calamous1_, i don't even have a sim yet |
| 20:40.59 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: what about in your current cell phone? |
| 20:41.13 | daMaestro | i was actually going to head our for a latte, and i think the closest place is att |
| 20:41.20 | daMaestro | so i might just ask to borrow one ;-) |
| 20:41.20 | daMaestro | lol |
| 20:41.27 | daMaestro | calamous1_, cdma (currently with verizon) |
| 20:41.44 | calamous1_ | daMaestro: Be warned that the at&t one prob wont work |
| 20:41.48 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:41.50 | calamous1_ | Look at the front of the sim |
| 20:41.58 | calamous1_ | If it says 4021 its the same as all of us |
| 20:41.58 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 20:42.09 | moko-bunny | anybody remember what the fix for openmoko build failing on rss was? I remember seeing it, but can't seem to find it now |
| 20:42.11 | calamous1_ | and usless your neo has the power of christ you wont be able to use it |
| 20:42.29 | calamous1_ | well, atleast until fic fixes this problem |
| 20:42.47 | daMaestro | Jul 29 20:14:47 <roh> mellon do a bitbake -cclean openmoko-rssreader and update sdn |
| 20:42.50 | calamous1_ | I send Harald an email telling him about the problem |
| 20:43.03 | calamous1_ | I think its the most serious problem they have. If they want to sell a phone it must work with sim cards |
| 20:43.03 | daMaestro | moko-bunny, ^^ |
| 20:43.21 | calamous1_ | But it makes a great small computer though |
| 20:44.03 | calamous1_ | Forget about car PCs and miniPCs, get the neo1973 computer |
| 20:44.21 | calamous1_ | Featuring a nice touch display and a bunch o' hardware |
| 20:44.25 | daMaestro | yes, a neo1973 could make a nice carputor |
| 20:44.34 | SpeedEvil | Display is too small. |
| 20:44.39 | SpeedEvil | A 4" display would be nice. |
| 20:44.52 | mjr | you just need a lense attachment ;P |
| 20:44.55 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: Are there USB montors? |
| 20:44.57 | SpeedEvil | Alternatively, a 2.5" or so round display, with the Neo in a can. |
| 20:45.03 | SpeedEvil | calamous1_: no - for usb1.1 |
| 20:45.06 | calamous1_ | because I remember when I wan compliing my kernel once I though I saw the option |
| 20:45.15 | galexande | wow, i am shocked and dismayed that the gps closed source daemon is unavailable |
| 20:45.26 | galexande | speedevil, do you have your neo yet? |
| 20:45.31 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 20:45.37 | daMaestro | yeah, i'm kinda not too happy about that too galexande |
| 20:45.37 | calamous1_ | When is you'rs comming |
| 20:45.37 | galexande | yay! i'm not the only one |
| 20:46.23 | SpeedEvil | It's been sitting in Philadelphia for some time. Since 5:17AM |
| 20:46.37 | calamous1_ | That was a good movie |
| 20:46.54 | calamous1_ | I think Tom Hanks is a great actor |
| 20:46.58 | StylusEater | daMaestro: the photo howto will be slick |
| 20:50.12 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E8C1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:51.02 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-60-149-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:52.57 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 20:54.59 | *** part/#openmoko mave_pan (n=me@dD5763257.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:55.18 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 20:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07CED8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:57.53 | dtx | Is it October yet? |
| 20:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 20:58.24 | don-o | gpsd is closed source? i thought the kernel driver to the gps hardware was the closed source part. |
| 21:00.14 | LetoTo | don-o: It doesnt matter much wether you ask a closed source kernel module or a closed source daemon |
| 21:00.16 | mjr | don-o, no it's not |
| 21:00.36 | mjr | lemme search my history |
| 21:01.13 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-156-090.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:01.13 | mjr | not there |
| 21:02.36 | mjr | Anyway, the "gllin" GPS (_not_ GSM) driver is the only proprietary bit in OpenMoko, and therefore the only proprietary bit running on Neo's application processor. The _Neo_ has some more proprietary bits, as firmware blobs on things such as the gsm chipset, bt chip, and come GTA02, wifi chip |
| 21:03.30 | mjr | clear? |
| 21:04.31 | mjr | (actually the gllin binary is not public yet, so the entire OpenMoko is _currently_ free, but we are supposed to get the driver eventually) |
| 21:04.41 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0F3AC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:04.59 | mjr | never mind that it leaked way back when |
| 21:05.42 | *** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@89.98.218.127) |
| 21:06.21 | *** join/#openmoko bradpitcher (i=bradpitc@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org) |
| 21:06.31 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 21:14.26 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@143.Red-88-25-156.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:15.01 | Kero | hmf. chronological "things that UPS does with your order" are not logical to me. |
| 21:15.28 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 21:16.01 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 21:16.23 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423_ (n=chatzill@A7110.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 21:17.34 | ScaredyCat | Kero: did you see what it cost me in taxes ? |
| 21:18.03 | ewon | ScaredyCat: do tell |
| 21:18.31 | TimRiker | mjr: "we are supposed to get the driver eventually" gpl driver? or a closed-source driver? |
| 21:18.37 | Kero | no, I've been deprived of about 24 hours of IRC |
| 21:18.41 | ScaredyCat | 87.90 EUR |
| 21:19.59 | ScaredyCat | the silence is deafening :) |
| 21:20.20 | Kero | reading up on regular mail. openMoko is next :) |
| 21:20.21 | mjr | TimRiker, FIC/OpenMoko inc. will provide Global Locate's proprietary binary driver. This is what I meant, and it's the only proprietary bit of OpenMoko I mentioned. Reverse-engineering the chip protocol is underway with the purpose of creating a free driver, also. |
| 21:21.06 | mjr | I think Elrond was doing RE at least |
| 21:21.36 | TimRiker | what does Global Locate think of that? are they aware? |
| 21:22.06 | TimRiker | does FIC make other phones? |
| 21:22.07 | mjr | No idea. Of course, FIC/OpenMoko inc. can't take part in that |
| 21:22.10 | Elrond | I did not tell them. I've only told some OpenMoko Inc. people. |
| 21:22.37 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 21:22.39 | ewon | ScaredyCat: crikey |
| 21:22.43 | TimRiker | mjr: ah. I thought you meant that FIC/OpenMoko was doing it. |
| 21:22.53 | ewon | glad I'll be in Los Angeles when the GTA02 comes out... |
| 21:22.53 | TimRiker | Elrond: nod |
| 21:23.14 | ScaredyCat | ewon: ya :( |
| 21:23.45 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:23.51 | prpplague | TimRiker: hey hey |
| 21:23.57 | noiddd | is there a projected date for gta02 sale? |
| 21:24.00 | prpplague | TimRiker: hows goes it? long time no see |
| 21:24.02 | Elrond | TimRiker - OpenMoko Inc. is too close. They better not do it. Some of the people working there signed Global Locate's NDAs. |
| 21:24.09 | noiddd | I understand that's a finger in the air prospect |
| 21:24.37 | mjr | noiddd, October has been mentioned. We shall see. |
| 21:25.04 | Elrond | I highly doubt october. |
| 21:25.05 | prpplague | gta02 is the 2440 based model? |
| 21:25.13 | mjr | SpeedEvil, hm :) |
| 21:25.19 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: yours was one advanced set? |
| 21:25.34 | drath | heh, gta02 delays are fine with me - more time for you gta01 buyers to get the applications right for when i can buy a 02 ;) |
| 21:25.35 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 21:25.37 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
| 21:25.43 | ScaredyCat | ya LarstiQ |
| 21:25.43 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - A friend already considered trying some scoial phone engineering. ;-) |
| 21:27.50 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: great |
| 21:28.15 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: how did that get charged? |
| 21:28.21 | zecke | mickeyl: wb |
| 21:28.30 | ScaredyCat | cash on delivery... |
| 21:28.35 | ScaredyCat | tomorrow :/ |
| 21:28.38 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=macmac@host86-150-110-238.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:28.45 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@123.Red-88-9-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:28.51 | ScaredyCat | they left a card after changing the delivery date |
| 21:28.54 | *** join/#openmoko devestate (n=devestat@r02amsdm2.desktop.umr.edu) |
| 21:29.12 | mickeyl | heya |
| 21:29.15 | Elrond | Hi mickeyl back. |
| 21:29.23 | prpplague | nbd: ping |
| 21:29.38 | ScaredyCat | it's a bit high methinls though |
| 21:29.58 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A565C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:30.23 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: ugh |
| 21:30.23 | ScaredyCat | 120.37 USD |
| 21:30.32 | nbd | prpplague: pong |
| 21:30.46 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: I'd better inform my delivery address then |
| 21:31.28 | prpplague | nbd: i have confirmed on both the 2410 and 2440 devices i have that i do not receive irq trigger from the card via the sdi controller |
| 21:31.56 | nbd | prpplague: and you patched the controller driver to enable sdio irqs? |
| 21:32.04 | prpplague | nbd: can you or someone on the fic/neo group test and see if you guys are having the same problem with your hardware? |
| 21:32.07 | nbd | (there's a separate flag for that, iirc) |
| 21:32.52 | prpplague | nbd: i just did a small stand alone module that enabled the sdi controller and the irqs, then triggered the irq manually with a pushbutton |
| 21:33.20 | prpplague | nbd: can you point me to the patch you are refering to? |
| 21:33.21 | nbd | prpplague: and you enabled the flag for the sdio specific interrupts? |
| 21:33.24 | nbd | there is no patch |
| 21:33.30 | prpplague | nbd: yea |
| 21:33.32 | nbd | i just remember from the datasheet that there was such a flag |
| 21:33.38 | prpplague | nbd: yea |
| 21:33.43 | nbd | separate from the standard interrupt stuff |
| 21:34.14 | prpplague | nbd: i enabled the flag in the SDICON and also unmasked the irq in the SDIIMSK |
| 21:34.35 | nbd | ok |
| 21:35.20 | *** join/#openmoko xfh (n=ninHer@123.Red-88-9-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:36.01 | prpplague | nbd: the SDIDSTA register does show that an SDIO interrupt was detected, but irq is never triggered |
| 21:37.23 | prpplague | nbd: section 19 of the 2410 datasheet |
| 21:37.47 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@199.Red-83-58-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:40.07 | roh | re |
| 21:40.20 | nbd | prpplague: have you ever received a single interrupt from the controller in any mode? |
| 21:41.09 | prpplague | nbd: yea, i've tested all the other interrupts and they work |
| 21:41.21 | prpplague | nbd: its seems limited to the sdio interrupt |
| 21:41.33 | prpplague | nbd: from the card |
| 21:41.55 | nbd | hm |
| 21:43.32 | nbd | prpplague: did you clear the sdio interrupt detected flag from SDIDSTA? |
| 21:43.53 | prpplague | nbd: yep |
| 21:44.15 | nbd | hm |
| 21:44.18 | nbd | no idea |
| 21:44.25 | prpplague | nbd: me either |
| 21:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko Roy (n=koth@143-037-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 21:44.52 | prpplague | nbd: i'm using an external interrupt right now connected to sdio data1 |
| 21:44.59 | prpplague | nbd: that works great |
| 21:45.30 | prpplague | nbd: only issue is right before a 4-bit data xfer, i have to disable that irq and reenable after the xfer is complete |
| 21:46.14 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - BTW: Did you get any strange idea on the max at doppler==0? |
| 21:46.20 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 21:46.39 | SpeedEvil | I want to see what happens when it goes through 0 'naturally'. |
| 21:47.04 | *** join/#openmoko nicolas_ (n=nicolas@chello062178095079.4.12.vie.surfer.at) |
| 21:47.39 | Elrond | Ahh, that's why you asked me for the decoded thing from longtrace, because that one PRN goes through 0? |
| 21:47.48 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 21:47.54 | SpeedEvil | Amongst ohters. |
| 21:48.36 | SpeedEvil | Also, I want to see if I can get a better result on the doppler. |
| 21:48.41 | Elrond | Well, the current output is quite untagged. You have to look at various bits to get the idea, what numbers are what. |
| 21:48.46 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 21:48.52 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p548918B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:49.08 | Elrond | Hmm, we're quite sure, that it's doppler, right? |
| 21:49.09 | SpeedEvil | Do you have a list of scribblings as to what may be what? |
| 21:49.16 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 21:49.22 | SpeedEvil | The graph is pretty compelling. |
| 21:49.39 | Elrond | Okay, I'll tag that part "Doppler:" Then. |
| 21:49.41 | SpeedEvil | The only thing I did to make them line up was to change one constant. |
| 21:50.16 | SpeedEvil | And that matches about 8 independant variables in the 3 traces plotted to within about 2% |
| 21:50.28 | SpeedEvil | The chances of that being an accident aren't high. |
| 21:50.37 | Elrond | Right. |
| 21:50.54 | calamous1_ | SpeedEvil: What are your degree(s) in? |
| 21:51.25 | SpeedEvil | with later one in EE |
| 21:51.42 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:51.51 | SpeedEvil | Currently unemployed and have somewhat variable health, making 9-5 problematic. |
| 21:52.41 | Roy | Ah, finally found a bugzilla bug I might help you guys with (199) some friends of mine are in the music business and they might just create some wicked ringtones in various themes |
| 21:53.28 | SpeedEvil | Roy: Phase 2 - october will be mono. (in case you were thinking of stereo) |
| 21:54.34 | Roy | All sounds or just the ringtones? |
| 21:54.35 | aloril | Roy: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:55.04 | SpeedEvil | Roy: One speaker only. |
| 21:55.34 | SpeedEvil | One was deleted to make space for wifi |
| 21:55.47 | Roy | Ah, then its kind of obvious :) |
| 21:56.29 | SpeedEvil | nopcode: read the datasheet in question |
| 21:56.30 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 21:56.39 | Roy | I'll send them a email and challenge them to a ringtone-competition, that might just get us some wicked ringtones |
| 21:56.49 | mjr | what the hell, how will I live with mono? |
| 21:57.01 | mjr | Where's my kayak?!? |
| 22:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s[WORK]_ (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 22:03.08 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - It was a stupid day and I need to get up early tomorrow. I've started to tag some items in the output, but I'll try to tag more and upload a full dump for you tomorrow. |
| 22:03.41 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - If you only care for doppler, I can extract the Doppler part for you only. |
| 22:03.54 | kristian-m | Does the Debug Board v2 route all signals comming from the neo-flex adapter to a connector? - aspecially SPI, GPS, Modem and I^2C would be cool... |
| 22:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko nerv (n=michael@i3ED6F152.versanet.de) |
| 22:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:08.05 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:08.53 | Elrond | Good night people. |
| 22:09.54 | mickeyl | g'night Elrond |
| 22:10.23 | *** join/#openmoko mellon (n=mellon@dsl093-162-130.tus1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:10.42 | *** part/#openmoko ufo76 (n=macmac@host86-150-110-238.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:10.54 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=macmac@host86-150-110-238.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko BenC_ (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 22:13.36 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Hmm, I start to consider the possibility, that this doppler==0 maximum is a problem of MY hammerhead. Looking at cold2, I see _lots_ lower values for doppler==0. This also might explain the not-so-good-performance of by hammerhead... |
| 22:15.27 | Elrond | mickeyl - The gps performance issues, I told you on Saturday, _might_ be related to my HH (working hypothesis). I really need to come up with some testing apps, that other people can run on their HHs to give me more data. |
| 22:15.52 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:16.01 | mickeyl | Elrond: yes, that would be handy |
| 22:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:16.47 | ljp | hmmmm.. cant seem to get microsd card and gsm card to work both at the same time |
| 22:16.48 | Elrond | Of course it would be interesting, why my HH is so different. |
| 22:17.41 | kristian-m | are the bord schematics for the debugboard online somewhere? |
| 22:17.43 | Elrond | The only thing, that I know, that went really wrong, was this one bug in the kernel, where the DC-DC-converter was setup wrong. So the HH got too less voltage. |
| 22:20.12 | *** join/#openmoko BobOfDoo1 (i=nobody@210-9-142-195.netspeed.com.au) |
| 22:20.36 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 22:21.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt_Main]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_OWL]] |
| 22:22.42 | Elrond | Anyqay: Now good night for real. |
| 22:22.51 | mickeyl | n8 |
| 22:23.04 | Elrond | Night mickeyl :) |
| 22:23.17 | mickeyl | can't go to sleep until in a couple of hours :) |
| 22:23.43 | mickeyl | sleep is overrated anyways |
| 22:23.57 | ljp | true that |
| 22:24.29 | ljp | hey mickey: any issues with gsm card and microsd working at the same time? |
| 22:25.09 | mickeyl | ljp: nothing known. |
| 22:25.27 | mickeyl | might be a mechanical thing. check that both cards are firmly seated |
| 22:28.11 | bradpitcher | I have them working at the same time |
| 22:28.46 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: :) |
| 22:29.11 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: doppler only would work ATM |
| 22:30.56 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:33.29 | don-o | mjr: im glad to hear gpsd is open source. |
| 22:33.41 | SpeedEvil | It's not. |
| 22:33.45 | daMaestro | so, i'll most likely be able to test both att and tmobile sims tonight |
| 22:33.48 | SpeedEvil | don-o. |
| 22:34.03 | daMaestro | i know i'll be able to test tmobile, and expect to find that att is not working |
| 22:34.10 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.217.240) |
| 22:34.11 | SpeedEvil | There are attempts to make an open-source driver. |
| 22:34.20 | SpeedEvil | But, that's not at all the same thing. |
| 22:34.25 | don-o | SpeedEvil: the daemon or the kernel driver? |
| 22:34.37 | SpeedEvil | there is no kernel driver. |
| 22:34.40 | SpeedEvil | It's a serial device |
| 22:34.46 | SpeedEvil | well - there is the serial driver. |
| 22:34.50 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE409.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:35.00 | daMaestro | lol |
| 22:35.08 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, it's not kmod-automagic? |
| 22:35.13 | daMaestro | i thought i had that installed... ;-) |
| 22:35.22 | SpeedEvil | I dunno how it's installed. |
| 22:37.42 | don-o | SpeedEvil: so what is gllin |
| 22:37.55 | SpeedEvil | It's the binary userspace driver software |
| 22:38.32 | don-o | thats closed source as well as gpsd? |
| 22:38.59 | SpeedEvil | gllin acts like a serial GPS on the outside. |
| 22:39.06 | SpeedEvil | gpsd is open-source |
| 22:39.10 | SpeedEvil | and connects to this. |
| 22:39.40 | SpeedEvil | the gllin is basically a userspace driver that gpsd talks to. |
| 22:39.50 | SpeedEvil | gllin generates NMEA output. |
| 22:40.00 | don-o | SpeedEvil: okay so i was right initially i just had kernel driver swapped with userspace driver. |
| 22:40.44 | don-o | SpeedEvil: i present lines 15&16 compared with line 28 as confusing. http://pastie.caboo.se/83598 |
| 22:40.48 | SpeedEvil | gpsd is not a driver. It's a standard GPS sharing thing. |
| 22:40.58 | SpeedEvil | And format conversion |
| 22:41.08 | don-o | SpeedEvil: i understand that. gpsd is a good old userspace daemon. |
| 22:41.53 | SpeedEvil | oh - I thought you were just using 'gpsd' in the 'gps driver' sense and wasn't bothering to correct you. |
| 22:46.57 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-212-102.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 22:47.03 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair_ (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:47.45 | hads | Does gllin only output NMEA? |
| 22:48.08 | ckuethe | probably |
| 22:48.26 | ckuethe | oooh. with an open driver, we can make it output something sane! yay! |
| 22:49.37 | hads | If it only outputs NMEA then there's no way of getting per-satellite error data correct? |
| 22:50.33 | roh | kristian-m the debugboard schematics are not public yet. we are working on that. |
| 22:50.49 | roh | kristian-m but if you want to know how it works.. take a look here http://www.joernonline.de/dw/doku.php?id=projects:oocdlink:2_oocdlinks |
| 22:51.36 | roh | thats >90% the same as what we are using. just added a usbhub and some minor changes, but the jtag-part is software 1:1 compatible. only different usb-ids |
| 22:52.08 | *** join/#openmoko rtm_ (n=rtm@pool-151-203-32-67.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:52.56 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8565.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:52.59 | daMaestro | roh, i'm not sure if anyone tells you guys this enough... but good work |
| 22:53.02 | kristian-m | roh thanks - i think i'll have a look at the rest when the board is here... |
| 22:53.09 | daMaestro | roh, i finally got my device ;-) |
| 22:53.26 | SpeedEvil | hads: no, there isn't. |
| 22:53.46 | SpeedEvil | hads: see all pages in Category:GPS on the wiki |
| 22:54.17 | hads | SpeedEvil: Cheers. I've read most of them I think, there is an amount of conflicting info there. |
| 22:54.35 | SpeedEvil | roh: Do you know what LEDs are present behind the buttons on P1? I assume that they are hung off a GPIO? |
| 22:54.39 | daMaestro | so, why is the portmap daemon running? |
| 22:54.39 | SpeedEvil | P2 |
| 22:55.01 | SpeedEvil | hads: it's been written piecemeal. Any specific points? |
| 22:55.08 | cesarb | daMaestro: (wild guess) NFS? |
| 22:55.18 | SpeedEvil | hads: and with evolving understanding on the later pages. |
| 22:55.23 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2575 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c): openmoko-panel-gsm: catch up with libmokogsmd2 |
| 22:55.28 | daMaestro | cesarb, yes.. i know what portmap is used for |
| 22:55.41 | daMaestro | i just wondered if there was something moko specific that was using it |
| 22:55.46 | hads | SpeedEvil: Understandable. Nothing specific at the moment, it's been a few days since I read it. |
| 22:55.50 | cesarb | daMaestro: no, I'm saying it's running perhaps so you can mount your home dir in the neo ;-) |
| 22:55.52 | daMaestro | i'll just figure out how to ssh in and find out for myself ;-) |
| 22:56.05 | daMaestro | cesarb, i'm going to turn off nfs is that is the case |
| 22:56.06 | daMaestro | lol |
| 22:56.15 | cesarb | daMaestro: probably the real reason is that openembedded's default distro installs portmap by default, and it just wasn't removed |
| 22:56.29 | cesarb | daMaestro: and it probably automatically loads when present |
| 22:56.57 | hads | SpeedEvil: Questions 15 and 15.1 on Hardware:AGPS imply that you can get error data from the Neo |
| 22:57.10 | CoreDump|afk | great, so installing an OM snapshot in germany makes you a criminal |
| 22:57.32 | SpeedEvil | hads: that's I think after reverse engineering. |
| 22:57.46 | SpeedEvil | You can't from gllin. |
| 22:57.57 | hads | SpeedEvil: Ah |
| 22:58.17 | SpeedEvil | That page is a mess - the Q+A format is silly IMO. |
| 22:58.22 | hads | Agreed |
| 22:59.34 | rtm_ | Does anyone know if there is a way of telling what the volume is set to on the dialer application? I seem to be able to make calls, but I hear nothing. I know the wheely gizmo adjusts the volume, but I don't know whether to turn in CW or CCW, and I don't know how to tell what the volume is currently set to. |
| 22:59.40 | mickeyl | hmm. i can't follow you. what about portmap? is that evil nowadays? |
| 23:02.03 | CoreDump|afk | it is a "hackertool" which has recently been outlawed and may not be used, installed or developed by anyone. Doing so makes you a criminal thanks to our fascist government. |
| 23:02.05 | LarstiQ | rtm_: are you certain it is using the correct output device? |
| 23:02.20 | LarstiQ | CoreDump|afk: I'm glad I'm not in .de for that |
| 23:02.23 | mickeyl | CoreDump|afk: really? boy, that's insane |
| 23:02.36 | CoreDump|afk | yeah |
| 23:02.43 | mickeyl | sigh |
| 23:02.58 | mickeyl | is portmap solely for NFS or are other network services using this as well? |
| 23:02.58 | rtm_ | I'm not certain of anything. I've tried pressing speakerphone and not pressing speakerphone, but I never hear anything in either case. |
| 23:03.00 | CoreDump|afk | this government needs to go |
| 23:03.03 | mjr | CoreDump|afk, what exactly makes it criminal there? |
| 23:03.12 | LarstiQ | mickeyl: others do use it |
| 23:03.21 | rtm_ | portmap supports all RPC services. |
| 23:03.23 | SpeedEvil | rtm_: you need to setup the mixer properly. I'm unsure the dialer does that properly. |
| 23:03.42 | noiddd | portmap does a ton of stuff. that's why I hate it :-) |
| 23:03.50 | rtm_ | Wow - is there a WIki page on setting up the mixer? |
| 23:03.52 | CoreDump|afk | beeing a "hackertool". As "they" do not define what that exactly is, basically any networking app counts. |
| 23:04.00 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:04.15 | noiddd | in which country are "hacker tools" banned now? |
| 23:04.28 | CoreDump|afk | germany |
| 23:04.29 | ckuethe | and cars make you a war criminal because once upon a time engine exhaust was used to exterminate people? |
| 23:04.31 | mjr | oh, just a generic "we'll put you in jail if we don't like you" law |
| 23:04.39 | noiddd | Man, that sucks |
| 23:04.41 | linux_galore | morning, afternoon and g'day moko nuts |
| 23:04.42 | CoreDump|afk | mjr: exactly |
| 23:05.04 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: it's actually _really_ hard to gas yourself with a modern car. |
| 23:05.13 | ckuethe | i'm sure it is |
| 23:05.25 | ckuethe | i was pointing out an equally silly proposition |
| 23:05.27 | SpeedEvil | The oxygen sensors and catalytic converter keep the CO content of the exhaust _low_ |
| 23:05.52 | ckuethe | once upon a time $X was used to do something bad, therefore all $X is bad and so is everyone who wants to use it. |
| 23:05.52 | linux_galore | German's have now have a situation were security IT specialists have to break the law to do their job, what a bunch of nobs |
| 23:06.05 | linux_galore | s/have// |
| 23:06.46 | CoreDump|afk | ckuethe: our politicians are either criminally ignorant or have a frightening in mind (think police.state worse then the UK nowadays) |
| 23:07.01 | ckuethe | we have something like that for our roads ... "stunting" |
| 23:07.10 | ckuethe | = anything a police officer doesn't like |
| 23:07.12 | CoreDump|afk | s/frightening/frightening agenda |
| 23:07.20 | ckuethe | no real way to defend against it |
| 23:07.57 | ckuethe | penalties incl. fines, jail time, confiscation of car, and nasty demerits (affects your insurance rates) |
| 23:08.18 | linux_galore | if the generation who fought in WWI/II saw how we had squandered their fight for freedom they would wonder what the hell they had all died for |
| 23:08.55 | CoreDump|afk | indeed. I am surprised that we haven't seen riots and uprisings yet. |
| 23:09.12 | unknown_lamer | linux_galore: it's ok they were brainwashed too |
| 23:09.18 | SpeedEvil | np: Kaiserchiefs - I predict a riot. |
| 23:09.18 | linux_galore | it's almost as though modern democracies are all imploding into some weird socialist control freak state |
| 23:09.38 | unknown_lamer | linux_galore: post-great-depression = US is a dictatorship for all intents and purposes, and had been sliding toward it since about 20 years before the civil war |
| 23:09.45 | *** join/#openmoko PMT (n=rich@c-68-39-249-165.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:10.48 | linux_galore | yeah, as long as the serfs have their idiot box's and food on the table they wont do a thing |
| 23:11.02 | unknown_lamer | hence the transition in europe from the serf state to a welfare state |
| 23:11.09 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ottawa-hs-209-217-93-173.d-ip.magma.ca) |
| 23:11.09 | linux_galore | meanwhile they are getting poorer by the year |
| 23:11.31 | linux_galore | unknown_lamer: true |
| 23:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 23:12.19 | CoreDump|afk | well, at least Germany is moving _away_ from beeing a welfare state to a police state |
| 23:12.36 | mickeyl | time to emigrate |
| 23:12.38 | unknown_lamer | 'tis only a minor transition |
| 23:12.44 | CoreDump|afk | mickeyl: exactly |
| 23:12.45 | unknown_lamer | mickeyl: nowhere to emigrate to |
| 23:12.54 | CoreDump|afk | unknown_lamer: indeed :\ |
| 23:13.04 | unknown_lamer | the eu ensured that all of europe went to hell |
| 23:13.10 | unknown_lamer | america is not safe |
| 23:13.13 | unknown_lamer | canada is a joke |
| 23:13.16 | linux_galore | unknown_lamer: I listened to a podcast recently about China and its economy (it was a lecture), what stunned me is the comment were over 70% of the Chinese are now worse of under the new socialist capitalist system then they were under chairman mao |
| 23:13.19 | unknown_lamer | russia is totalitarian again |
| 23:13.23 | unknown_lamer | and the rest of world is killing itself |
| 23:13.48 | CoreDump|afk | asia might indeed the way to go |
| 23:13.48 | unknown_lamer | linux_galore: and 70% were probably worse off under Mao than under their Feudal lords |
| 23:14.00 | unknown_lamer | they traded the farm for the factory |
| 23:14.00 | roh | mickeyl hrhr..they are at least only massively buerocratic.. but we know that already |
| 23:14.03 | paroneayea | consider moving to the middle east? Things are pretty stable there these days :) |
| 23:14.09 | mickeyl | roh: yah |
| 23:14.40 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-212-102.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 23:14.57 | roh | mickeyl but hey.. soon is summer-pause.. and that means nothing happens at all |
| 23:15.07 | roh | at least in politics |
| 23:15.14 | CoreDump|afk | maybe sweden or finland. At least they don't kick their citizens rights w/ their feet from what I hear |
| 23:15.27 | mickeyl | roh: hopefully |
| 23:15.31 | linux_galore | unknown_lamer: true, then they had the one child per family policy that basically made life for the poor farmers worse because they now dont have enough family labour to keep the famrs running |
| 23:15.45 | linux_galore | farms* |
| 23:15.47 | mjr | CoreDump|afk, well, we're a bit slow starters here |
| 23:16.02 | CoreDump|afk | =) |
| 23:16.55 | CoreDump | north america and europe is going to hell :\ I ordered a "japanese for dummies" book already =) |
| 23:17.00 | mickeyl | hahah |
| 23:17.18 | SpeedEvil | Because japan is so accepting of non-conformity. |
| 23:17.46 | linux_galore | if you think the problem in the west with the massive aging is bad (baby boomers) wait till China suddenly realises in 25 years that it has this huge population of old people and no labour to support them all thanks to the one child per person policy |
| 23:17.54 | rtm_ | And racial minorities. |
| 23:18.32 | mjr | they're betting on automated labour; not a bad bet, though not a given |
| 23:18.36 | CoreDump | SpeedEvil: I was only half kidding ;) I have always been interested into the Japanese culture ( as it is so very different from our own) |
| 23:18.59 | linux_galore | mjr: automated labour wont look after old people, not unless you want to spend a small fortune |
| 23:19.37 | SpeedEvil | Or unless you teleoperate them from india. |
| 23:19.44 | mjr | linux_galore, doesn't actually matter if that particular work is automated or not, if enough is |
| 23:19.49 | linux_galore | I cant see Japan surviving with it negative growth numbers and lack of immigration for too long |
| 23:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko hozer (n=hozer@excalibur.hozed.org) |
| 23:20.04 | linux_galore | its* |
| 23:20.32 | linux_galore | there are parts of Japan now were there are "no people under 50" think about that |
| 23:20.44 | mjr | SpeedEvil, using tentacles |
| 23:20.48 | linux_galore | heh |
| 23:21.19 | linux_galore | naw , big robots with red and white paint jobs will do it |
| 23:21.46 | rtm_ | They can just merge with Zimbawe - sone there will be nobody over 50 there. |
| 23:22.17 | linux_galore | rtm_: everyone with half a brain is leaving Zimbabwe |
| 23:22.49 | linux_galore | Inflation is up around 500% |
| 23:23.21 | rtm_ | But Mugabe just ordered all prices to be cut by 1/2, so it'll be ok. |
| 23:23.44 | CoreDump | =D |
| 23:23.57 | linux_galore | the whole farming industry has collapsed (imagine that if you close all the farms and hand it to beggers it will all fall appart, who would have thunk that) |
| 23:24.49 | linux_galore | rtm_: yeah and he had demanded the sky will rain every Tuesday |
| 23:24.55 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-212-102.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 23:25.36 | daMaestro | hmm i'm getting connection refused when trying to ssh in |
| 23:26.20 | linux_galore | rtm_: imagine it cant you, OK I want to buy wheat of you to feed my people and your going to sell it to me half price, French Farmer "WTF!!" |
| 23:26.51 | rtm_ | daMaestro - did you ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 ? |
| 23:27.07 | linux_galore | anyway back to work |
| 23:27.17 | bradpitcher | did you ssh root@192.168.0.202 ? |
| 23:27.39 | daMaestro | rtm_, already done that |
| 23:27.50 | daMaestro | it's more that sshd is not running |
| 23:28.09 | rtm_ | can you ping it? |
| 23:28.18 | daMaestro | yes |
| 23:28.22 | daMaestro | i know networking ;-) |
| 23:28.27 | daMaestro | and the issue is sshd is not running |
| 23:28.42 | daMaestro | do we have the service command? |
| 23:28.42 | bradpitcher | oh |
| 23:28.48 | daMaestro | or do i have to /etc/init.d/sshd start? |
| 23:28.55 | daMaestro | (at lot to type) |
| 23:28.55 | daMaestro | lol |
| 23:29.01 | bradpitcher | that's what I would guess |
| 23:29.03 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 23:29.06 | rtm_ | I'm ssh'd into my neo right now, and sshd isn't running on it. |
| 23:29.20 | bradpitcher | isn't it bearssh |
| 23:29.29 | rtm_ | At least ps | grep ssh doesn't show it. |
| 23:29.31 | mwester | dropbear-d? |
| 23:29.39 | bradpitcher | right dropbear |
| 23:31.05 | daMaestro | hmm well that is running |
| 23:31.07 | mwester | rtm_: try looking for /usr/sbin/dropbear -- that's what it is on my slugos device |
| 23:31.15 | daMaestro | and netstat -ant|grep 22 returns it is listening |
| 23:31.29 | Arachnid | Bah, my phone is stuck in transit :( |
| 23:31.31 | Arachnid | "PKG DELAY-ADD'L SECURITY CHECK BY GOV'T OR OTHER AGENCY- BEYOND UPS CONTROL" |
| 23:31.56 | daMaestro | so, is iptables by default enabled? |
| 23:32.24 | bradpitcher | dunno |
| 23:32.42 | daMaestro | oh, i *have* to use 192.168.0.202 |
| 23:32.43 | daMaestro | lame |
| 23:32.44 | daMaestro | i see now |
| 23:33.49 | bradpitcher | well if you didn't want to couldn't you change the ip address on the neo? |
| 23:33.57 | daMaestro | sure |
| 23:34.02 | daMaestro | but i'm starting to see the issue |
| 23:34.19 | daMaestro | my default gw out wifi is 192.168.0.0 |
| 23:34.46 | stefan_schmidt | daMaestro: Host route? |
| 23:34.51 | daMaestro | yeah |
| 23:35.07 | daMaestro | the default gw on the device is 192.168.0.200 |
| 23:37.54 | bradpitcher | ahh |
| 23:38.17 | daMaestro | ok, where is the wiki article on the networking setup? |
| 23:38.55 | *** join/#openmoko hfonteboa (i=_@unaffiliated/hfonteboa) |
| 23:40.21 | rtm_ | DOes anyone know of a way to keep the neo from losing track of system time when it is rebooted? |
| 23:40.47 | daMaestro | yes, that is a very good question |
| 23:41.25 | daMaestro | hmm i think networkmanager screwed the pooch on this |
| 23:42.15 | daMaestro | lemme see if i can get away from the 192.168.0.0 UG without toasting my connecting |
| 23:42.18 | daMaestro | connection* |
| 23:42.25 | daMaestro | ping? |
| 23:43.09 | bradpitcher | daMaestro: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#By_using_Ethernet_emulation_over_a_USB_cable |
| 23:43.11 | daMaestro | hmm my lag meter thinks i'm still here |
| 23:43.14 | daMaestro | ah! there you are |
| 23:43.21 | daMaestro | bradpitcher, yeah.. i figured it out |
| 23:43.23 | CoreDump | daMaestro: FWIW, this is my /e/n/interfaces: http://rafb.net/p/1R7Bfd11.html |
| 23:43.27 | bradpitcher | oh good |
| 23:43.31 | daMaestro | it was sending the 192.168.0.0 out wlan0 |
| 23:43.48 | daMaestro | something screwed up my host routing |
| 23:45.29 | daMaestro | ok.. got it working |
| 23:46.04 | Vegar | rtm_: have you tried running hwclock --systohc before rebooting? |
| 23:46.18 | *** join/#openmoko zouzou (n=zouzou@brailleinstitute.org) |
| 23:46.22 | rtm_ | no - I'll give that a try. |
| 23:46.34 | zouzou | hi all, |
| 23:46.55 | zouzou | first of all, way to go OpenMoKo |
| 23:47.02 | bradpitcher | woot woot |
| 23:47.17 | Vegar | rtm_: can you try it now, just so I know if it worked or not? |
| 23:47.23 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. The CPU can be varied down to 36Mhz in 'normal' mode. |
| 23:47.23 | don-o | Arachnid: oh man thats a nasty UPS status to have. |
| 23:47.33 | rtm_ | yes, I'll have tried it in a minute or so. |
| 23:48.43 | zouzou | second, i have been looking at the website trying to figure out the exact size of the phone (heightxwidth,thikness, and weight) |
| 23:48.51 | zouzou | anybody can provide that info? |
| 23:48.51 | aloril | zouzou: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 23:48.57 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 23:48.57 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) |
| 23:49.12 | SpeedEvil | Basically. It fits just entirely in a coke can. |
| 23:49.19 | SpeedEvil | And is 18mm thick. |
| 23:50.17 | Arachnid | don-o: Yes, really annoying. I hope it gets a move on soon. :/ |
| 23:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko superbnerb (n=superbne@CPE0080c8df7759-CM00194757e7b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:51.25 | rtm_ | Vegar: You're my hero - that worked! Thanks a bunch. |
| 23:51.30 | Vegar | cool |
| 23:51.38 | Vegar | rtm_: maybe you could make a bug report on that |
| 23:51.42 | bradpitcher | sweet! now what shutdown script should we add that command too? |
| 23:52.02 | daMaestro | root@fic-gta01:~$ uname -r |
| 23:52.02 | daMaestro | 2.6.21.3-moko10 |
| 23:52.03 | daMaestro | cool |
| 23:52.14 | daMaestro | so, are we going to end up seen the CFS? |
| 23:52.36 | rtm_ | Vegar: I'll make a report - it'll be my first. |
| 23:52.37 | daMaestro | is there any way to force the screen to dim? |
| 23:53.05 | Vegar | daMaestro: I guess there's something in /sys |
| 23:53.16 | rwhitby | morning |
| 23:54.13 | daMaestro | cool |
| 23:54.24 | daMaestro | grr.. i need to setup NAT on my laptop so i can connect to the word |
| 23:54.29 | daMaestro | world* from my neo |
| 23:54.42 | mickeyl | for now echo "1000" >/sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl/brightness |
| 23:54.47 | mickeyl | (iirc) |
| 23:54.55 | daMaestro | ahh, neato |
| 23:55.21 | mjr | mickeyl, yay for arcane commands |
| 23:55.24 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 23:55.44 | daMaestro | too bad i don't have a sim to make a call |
| 23:55.59 | daMaestro | it's raining and i'm at a cafe on my way to buy a prepay sim from tmobile |
| 23:56.16 | rtm_ | I have SIMs and I still can't make a call. |
| 23:56.27 | bradpitcher | don't get your neo wet! |
| 23:56.39 | SpeedEvil | Use a condom! |
| 23:56.47 | bradpitcher | omg haha |
| 23:57.30 | bradpitcher | I have to say though, a phone condom would be pretty nice to have |
| 23:58.11 | happycube | weird... i just tried building angstrom and i ran into a qemu-arm segfault that was observed months ago |
| 23:58.30 | hozer | how do you get just a SIM from tmobile? |
| 23:58.32 | Vegar | bradpitcher: aka. a plastic bag? |
| 23:58.50 | bradpitcher | a really clear one so you could still use the phone |
| 23:59.00 | bradpitcher | and it has to seal at the bottom |
| 23:59.16 | bradpitcher | I guess a zip lock might work |
| 23:59.22 | Vegar | not sure if you could use the touchscreen through the plastic |
| 23:59.44 | Arachnid | Tip: A bag that seals at the top can be converted into one that seals at the bottom by turning it upside down! ;) |
| 23:59.58 | bradpitcher | hehe, yep |
| 23:59.58 | rtm_ | T-Mobile will give you a SIM with no number attached. You can only use it to call their customer service at 611, but that will test your headset. |
