| 00:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-27-228.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 00:01.41 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 00:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A0B0E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:04.31 | *** join/#openmoko h1voltage (n=h1voltag@adsl-64-109-201-55.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) |
| 00:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 00:05.53 | *** join/#openmoko marex_ (n=marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 00:06.21 | ChooseOpen | Moko artwork: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Artwork = WOW! |
| 00:06.51 | h1voltage | OMG, your right. that's hot |
| 00:08.29 | borg_ | not bad :) |
| 00:09.55 | anrp | mm raytracing |
| 00:10.21 | NeoStrider | not bad? |
| 00:10.23 | NeoStrider | c'mon! |
| 00:10.48 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi_ (n=cktakaha@201.32.147.85) |
| 00:10.53 | NeoStrider | even the average joe will want the neo! |
| 00:11.03 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:12.32 | daMaestro | ok... well; LAME |
| 00:12.49 | daMaestro | http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380251715251 .... this makes no sense to me |
| 00:12.56 | daMaestro | supposed to go to Denver, CO US |
| 00:13.13 | daMaestro | but nooo, UPS is stupid |
| 00:13.30 | ChooseOpen | hehe |
| 00:13.46 | daMaestro | highly annoying |
| 00:13.48 | ChooseOpen | daMaestro: You live in Devner? I used to live there |
| 00:13.53 | daMaestro | ChooseOpen, yes |
| 00:14.27 | daMaestro | i payed for 2nd day air, yet it is going to take 5-6 days and they are "flying" my phone all around the US |
| 00:14.34 | daMaestro | fscking POS UPS |
| 00:14.43 | h1voltage | LMAO |
| 00:15.21 | h1voltage | anyone doing work on the clock? |
| 00:15.21 | aloril | h1voltage: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:15.22 | mwester | Des Moines is a nice place to tour! |
| 00:15.26 | mwester | hehe! |
| 00:16.48 | Zaireeka_ | anybody know the customs charges for the UK? |
| 00:17.03 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 00:17.10 | SpeedEvil | The basic customs charges are 6% |
| 00:17.21 | SpeedEvil | then you've got VAT at 17.5% on top of that. |
| 00:17.38 | SpeedEvil | Plus, in some cases, there is an additional payment to the courier company to collect this fee from you. |
| 00:18.13 | SpeedEvil | Call it 40 quid or so. |
| 00:18.44 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:20.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Artwork]] [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[Mokopedia]] |
| 00:22.56 | Vegar | only 17.5%? |
| 00:22.59 | Vegar | wow |
| 00:25.38 | b1303s__ | yes trackingnumber received |
| 00:25.48 | Zaireeka_ | Yeah, was expecting around £40 charges |
| 00:26.26 | b1303s__ | and still in memphis ;-) |
| 00:26.33 | SpeedEvil | I am unsure if it actually theoretically needs duty. |
| 00:26.43 | SpeedEvil | Being not a functional mobile phone. |
| 00:26.47 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 00:27.56 | Zaireeka_ | I was hoping it wouldn't be shipped as "mobile phone" but as "mobile open development platform hardware" or something, haha |
| 00:30.51 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z6496.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:31.06 | Zaireeka_ | http://www.xkcd.com/281/ |
| 00:31.56 | SpeedEvil | Or nonfunctional mobile phone |
| 00:37.33 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:43.18 | LetoTo | stefan: you are crazy! 660 x 1278 ?? |
| 00:46.24 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 00:48.43 | LetoTo | oh, i guess that was the only way to get 640x480 on it? |
| 00:51.46 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.104.59) |
| 00:57.03 | *** part/#openmoko h1voltage (n=h1voltag@adsl-64-109-201-55.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) |
| 00:57.58 | *** join/#openmoko keesj (n=keesj@ip49-193-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl) |
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| 01:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 01:11.39 | ChooseOpen | kinda quiet in here tonight... |
| 01:11.52 | ChooseOpen | everybody must be busy tapping on their Neos |
| 01:16.47 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 01:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@wikipedia/cesarb) |
| 01:24.04 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-69-48.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 01:25.21 | borg_ | ChooseOpen: i am just waiting all the time ;) |
| 01:25.33 | borg_ | *f5* *wait* *f5* *wait* *f5* ... |
| 01:25.56 | borg_ | looks like ups doesnt do anything on sunday at 3.25 |
| 01:25.57 | borg_ | 8) |
| 01:27.15 | ChooseOpen | borg_: that sucks |
| 01:30.57 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177611641.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:31.13 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@89-125-118-237.dhcp-ripwave.irishbroadband.ie) |
| 01:32.10 | *** join/#openmoko jouston (n=jouston@211-74-123-214.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 01:32.28 | vallor | dang, saw the BT discussion on the list -- and I'm wondering how we could have a whole devel team of linux geeks who don't use BT? :-o |
| 01:32.39 | vallor | core devel team, I mean |
| 01:34.00 | vallor | or even: |
| 01:34.02 | vallor | http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-HS850-Bluetooth-Headset-Packaged/dp/B0007WWAGI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-1336461-2617444?ie=UTF8&s=wireless&qid=1185672799&sr=8-2 |
| 01:34.15 | vallor | 32 bucks at amazon for a decent headset |
| 01:53.42 | *** part/#openmoko Majorie (n=Majorie@p508CDF66.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:58.53 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 02:04.36 | ChooseOpen | I bought my first BT dongle today, for future Neo use... |
| 02:05.54 | Aria | I must say, I'm not impressed with Motorola's headsets so far. |
| 02:06.05 | Aria | But Jabra BT500 ++, as well as the BT620. |
| 02:06.11 | Aria | Though the state of A2DP on linux is SAD |
| 02:06.43 | bluelightning | Aria: I would hope that having a nice open handheld like the Neo would get devs more interested in improving it |
| 02:06.59 | Aria | Indeed. |
| 02:07.12 | Aria | Though I'm not sure how many devices actually use that profile right now. |
| 02:07.20 | Aria | (and it's sad that BT just can't send regular PCM) |
| 02:13.21 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-074-236-102-092.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:16.02 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54883BE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:20.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Battery_Charger]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] |
| 02:26.23 | *** join/#openmoko ZerothCloned (n=tyler@S010600195bd5cfe1.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 02:26.33 | ZerothCloned | hey all |
| 02:27.30 | ZerothCloned | I'm feeling kind of silly, but how does one get ones own binaries included in the qemu image? on your own machine? |
| 02:28.30 | *** join/#openmoko codyl (n=codyl@adsl-71-142-91-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 02:28.46 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 02:29.27 | ZerothCloned | the wiki for MokoMakefile is simply not clear at all, directing me to an openembedded wiki page, then back to itself without explaining what one should do with the binaries made by following the oe link. |
| 02:32.31 | ZerothCloned | Orrrr.... I could talk to thin air. |
| 02:33.19 | ferric | heh. |
| 02:33.28 | ferric | ZerothCloned: maybe try #oe? |
| 02:33.38 | ferric | (although, that looks dead as well.) |
| 02:45.33 | *** join/#openmoko spliffy (n=frost@p54B1C740.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 03:00.17 | *** join/#openmoko anandanbu (n=phoenix@59.92.113.41) |
| 03:00.49 | anandanbu | Can someone tell me how much time it would talk to install the openmoko in Ubuntu 7.04 |
| 03:01.04 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-251-139.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:01.17 | ZerothCloned | what kind of processor and memory? |
| 03:01.40 | ferric | man i set it up and used mokomakefile, and it took like 2days in a virtual machine! |
| 03:01.49 | ferric | but i only gave it 512mb of RAM :p |
| 03:02.00 | ferric | and I was using my box non-stop, almost. |
| 03:02.05 | ZerothCloned | lol, in a vm? well, it only took two days, but that was due to crashes from bugs :P |
| 03:02.29 | ZerothCloned | but from start to finish, on a 4 year old system... about 24 hours all told |
| 03:03.21 | anandanbu | ZerothCloned: my machine is 3.2ghz with 1 mb ram |
| 03:03.43 | anandanbu | ZerothCloned: how much stuuf had to be downloaded |
| 03:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 03:04.43 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 03:07.30 | happycube | i think 5-6 hrs on my opty 165 w/1gb |
| 03:07.36 | happycube | i don't think distro matters too much |
| 03:07.37 | happycube | *maybe 8hrs |
| 03:08.07 | happycube | it's not using multitasking too well though so i don't think even a core 2 quad'll get below say 4 hours |
| 03:08.38 | anandanbu | happycube: is it only possible to install it in a full stretch |
| 03:08.38 | ZerothCloned | I'm surprised how well my machine's done for four years old. Its a Celeron D for crissakes... and yet, its just enough :D |
| 03:09.09 | b1303s__ | on a pemtium-m 725 1,5gb ram slackware12 it took 6h using mokomakefile |
| 03:09.44 | happycube | not bad |
| 03:09.51 | happycube | i think a lot of the time's spent downloading |
| 03:09.55 | *** part/#openmoko anandanbu (n=phoenix@59.92.113.41) |
| 03:10.08 | happycube | there *ought* to be a way to get bitbake to figure out what to download and then go out and do it in another thread |
| 03:10.27 | happycube | that alone would cut build times a lot! |
| 03:10.37 | ZerothCloned | hells yes |
| 03:10.53 | ZerothCloned | well, can't it be done via threads in a script? |
| 03:11.13 | ZerothCloned | do it all via Python, and I expect the code would be smaller, and faster |
| 03:13.10 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2141-ipbf2304marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 03:14.34 | happycube | yeah |
| 03:14.42 | happycube | bitbake *is* in python ;) |
| 03:14.48 | raster | moo |
| 03:14.55 | happycube | hey |
| 03:15.19 | ZerothCloned | I meant the mokomakefile |
| 03:15.43 | happycube | nah mokomakefile is fine - if bitbake gets background downloading all of OE can use it |
| 03:15.47 | b1303s__ | i think it downloaded about 1.2 gb |
| 03:16.42 | cesarb | my sources directory is about 600M |
| 03:17.17 | cesarb | It probably downloaded around 500M (it seems to unpack the git sources) |
| 03:18.00 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AEDD6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:20.05 | mwester | happycube: I think the 1.8 version of bitbake does exactly that, if you set the right variables and all. But I think OpenMoko is still using the older 1.6 version of bitbake. |
| 03:20.15 | happycube | ooooh nice |
| 03:21.30 | Aria | Huh. I wonder if that's why I had such trouble. My distro ships 1.8 |
| 03:22.15 | ZerothCloned | augh |
| 03:22.46 | cesarb | Aria: if you use mokomakefile, it uses a local copy of bitbake, so that wouldn't cause a problem |
| 03:23.03 | Aria | Yeah. I just want to understand ans control the process. |
| 03:24.14 | ZerothCloned | I tried to follow the process of the MokoMakefile wiki, for adding my own app... and dagnabbit it didn't apply the damned patch *rants and fumes* |
| 03:25.14 | happycube | i guess om2008'll fix that |
| 03:26.26 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AEDD6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:26.28 | mwester | One of the big benefits of openembedded (the heart of the mokomakefile) is that it builds *everything*, including its own toolchain and everything it needs to be able to build the entire distro. |
| 03:26.49 | mwester | The problem with that is that it takes forever, and seemingly-simple things are complicated. |
| 03:26.52 | ZerothCloned | which is nice. and theres like... 1508 packages in there to pick and choose from |
| 03:27.24 | ljp | and more if youwrite your own |
| 03:27.41 | mwester | What would be really nice is if moko would stabilize to the point where one could download a pre-built tool-chain and libs, so that one just has to build the application code (and maybe supporting libs if it has special ones). |
| 03:28.02 | mwester | Maybe that'll happen when we get the first "release"... |
| 03:28.22 | happycube | cross compiling in general can get hairy |
| 03:28.34 | ZerothCloned | heh, I have plans to make a business centering around openmoko, and I'm not holding my breath for fic to stabilize openmoko. |
| 03:29.09 | ZerothCloned | instead, in true FOSS fashion, gather a bunch of good coders, and get them to work on the stability and ease of use that would be demanded by business consumers |
| 03:29.35 | mwester | Then you'll need to become totally comfortable with OE and it's features -- good and bad. |
| 03:29.59 | ZerothCloned | yeah, |
| 03:30.00 | happycube | yeah |
| 03:30.31 | happycube | is there a nice oe introduction on the wiki? |
| 03:30.38 | happycube | *for real oe hacking |
| 03:30.41 | mwester | Not on the openmoko wiki. |
| 03:31.13 | ZerothCloned | not yet... |
| 03:31.19 | ljp | read the oe getting started wiki |
| 03:31.20 | mwester | http://www.openembedded.org/ is a good place to start. |
| 03:31.21 | ZerothCloned | and once I do find a workable process, I will share it. |
| 03:31.28 | ljp | ther eis also an oe manual |
| 03:32.42 | mwester | OE manual: http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual (but watch out for bitbake 1.8 / 1.6 differences, they can be significant) |
| 03:35.55 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 03:38.06 | ljp | anyone here get a device yet? was it bootable when you got it? |
| 03:38.29 | ZerothCloned | I've heard they aren't bootable initially. |
| 03:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko dirakx (n=dirakx@190.66.121.175) |
| 03:45.14 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: they aren't, according to the wiki they don't have the root fs |
| 03:45.39 | ljp | but they have bootloader? |
| 03:45.56 | cesarb | ljp: yes |
| 03:46.04 | ljp | k. thanks |
| 03:46.19 | cesarb | ljp: they also have the kernel (by mistake, it was supposed to be missing like the root fs) |
| 03:46.35 | ZerothCloned | *crosses fingers and prays* |
| 03:46.48 | cesarb | ljp: they have to have a bootloader... without the debug board, it's the only way to flash the rest |
| 03:47.00 | BryceLeo|AtFarm | happycube: you still around? |
| 03:47.15 | ZerothCloned | GAHH |
| 03:47.51 | ZerothCloned | It did it AGAIN |
| 03:48.10 | ZerothCloned | I'm following the instructions in the Wiki, on adding a new app to the image |
| 03:48.21 | ZerothCloned | however, after doing quilt refresh |
| 03:48.46 | ZerothCloned | then doing make update, it friggin REVERTS the changes I made to the task-openmoko.bb file |
| 03:48.49 | ZerothCloned | "Reverted 'trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb' |
| 03:48.49 | ZerothCloned | " |
| 03:49.01 | BryceLeo|AtFarm | ZerothCloned: ok try this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources |
| 03:49.35 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: why are you editing directly the openmoko tree? |
| 03:49.36 | BryceLeo|AtFarm | it's a bit simplified in places and Koen hates it, but it's quick dirty and gets the job done |
| 03:50.04 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: both it and openembedded shouldn't be edited, precisely because your changes will sooner or later end up being overwritten |
| 03:50.27 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: try either an overlay tree or adding patches to mokomakefile's patches directory instead |
| 03:50.58 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: (I personally think an overlay tree is simpler to use, unless you want just to fix small bugs on both upstream's recipes) |
| 03:51.39 | BryceLeo|AtFarm | ZerothCloned: or you could just create a local repo add it to the bb dirs and just pull in from that repo, it's a terrible way to do it, but a nice place to start if you're totally lost. If you're somewhat less lost definately go with the overlay tree that cesarb suggests |
| 03:52.42 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay |
| 03:53.16 | BryceLeo | cesarb: i didn't know there was an article on that! sweet work dude! |
| 03:53.24 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 03:53.28 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: under no circumstances do what i said follow that article! |
| 03:54.21 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@ool-18b9456b.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:54.40 | ZerothCloned | Any way I can like... do something really really nice for you guys, Cesarb, BryceLeo? |
| 03:56.32 | ZerothCloned | Oh, cesarb, quick bash tip, "mkdir local/{,conf,classes,packages}" does the same as "mkdir local local/conf local/classes local/packages" |
| 03:56.51 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: lol how do you mean? |
| 03:58.56 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: it does the same thing, and also is less comprehensible for the ones who don't know much about shell tricks |
| 03:59.20 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: I tried to be easy to understand, and such overuse of advanced syntax would detract from that goal |
| 04:05.17 | ZerothCloned | Okay, I've created the local overlay, and so, to add a new package, I simply... create a new dir, put the source and the .bb file in there? |
| 04:05.20 | BryceLeo | cesarb: so how goes it? I'm thinking of taking tomorrow and building a wiki crash course page. A sample app, a sample overlay, sample bb files, and all the instructions to set it up on your own box and maybe a tarball to go with it |
| 04:05.40 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@c-76-115-1-198.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 04:05.59 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 04:06.11 | Psi_ | BryceLeo, that sounds like a good idea |
| 04:06.34 | ZerothCloned | That would be awesome @ BryceLeo |
| 04:06.37 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: you create a new directory under pacakges/, put the .bb file on it, create a files/ directory on it, put the .tar.gz with the source on it, and reference the .tar.gz on SRC_URI on the .bb |
| 04:07.24 | BryceLeo | Psi_: ZerothCloned i figured there's a whole lot of new guys up in here trying their hand at coding and running apps, and some nice quick success is always good to keep the motivation flowing |
| 04:07.36 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 04:08.21 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: and to add it to task-base or task-openmoko, create packages/tasks, copy oe/packages/tasks/task-base.bb (or task-openmoko.bb) to it, and edit it... the priority on the conf will make bitbake prefer the task-base.bb on the overlay |
| 04:08.28 | BryceLeo | now i will let you guys know that Koen (smart guy, great with OE and a fantastic coder) will call this useless, terrible, incorrect and a waste of time and effort and will repeatedly link you to the OE manual. But if i put it up there i've tried it and it works |
| 04:09.02 | BryceLeo | and i do know my way around OE and bitbake fairly well so it should be pretty accurate and the discriptions will in some cases be over simplified but they'll get the point accross |
| 04:15.43 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 04:16.01 | BryceLeo | Psi_: ZerothCloned anything in particular that you're going to be looking for in the crash course? |
| 04:17.55 | Psi_ | lots of example applications |
| 04:19.39 | BryceLeo | Psi_: how bout one good one that'll give you a basic framework for your apps |
| 04:19.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Manually_using_GPRS]] [[User_talk:Captain_morgan]] |
| 04:21.30 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 04:21.44 | Psi_ | BryceLeo, problem with them is that a good framework will probable end up being quite complex |
| 04:22.10 | Psi_ | and thus too complex for someone just starting out |
| 04:22.12 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:22.26 | ZerothCloned | How about a simple helloworld app Psi_? |
| 04:22.35 | BryceLeo | Psi_: haha no no i won't do that it'll be just complete enough to build a gtk hello world, that'll be a great start |
| 04:22.45 | Psi_ | ah, then yes |
| 04:22.51 | BryceLeo | and you'll be able to adapt it from there |
| 04:23.10 | Psi_ | isnt there already a hello world example app |
| 04:23.25 | ZerothCloned | there is, actually |
| 04:24.00 | BryceLeo | Psi_: ZerothCloned i'm pretty much gonna be unifying all the docs on what's needed to create an app |
| 04:24.30 | BryceLeo | but i'lll be explaining a bit more thoroughly in some cases and hopefully explaining better |
| 04:24.43 | Psi_ | maybe something like a app that has 10 buttons that do basic stuff like turn the backlight on /off, etc. |
| 04:24.54 | BryceLeo | and i'll hopefully be sending out a tar with a setup script that will set you up to bitbake testapp and then build it all |
| 04:25.27 | BryceLeo | Psi_: i'll see what i can work on, i can get the basic app on |
| 04:26.06 | BryceLeo | then work on the app from there |
| 04:26.14 | Psi_ | sounds good |
| 04:26.38 | BryceLeo | sweet |
| 04:27.54 | cesarb | BryceLeo: per Zawinski's Law, your basic app should be able to read email ;-) |
| 04:27.59 | *** join/#openmoko kyled185 (n=kyle@dpc67142242193.direcpc.com) |
| 04:28.17 | BryceLeo | cesarb: lmao just wait till it makes coffee! |
| 04:28.36 | ZerothCloned | BryceLeo: Thats before it can read email ;) |
| 04:29.11 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: hell i need the coffee to debug the dumb errors i'll make in coding the reader |
| 04:29.13 | BryceLeo | :-D |
| 04:30.35 | BryceLeo | i put a damn comma in my crebuild variable, i'm great with making simple errors |
| 04:32.35 | ZerothCloned | BryceLeo: Thats just a typo. At least you don't triple-check a script, intended to be running for a few hours on an important task... and miss all three times an infinite loop! |
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| 04:33.30 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: lol... ok i'll give you that one, but i accidently set a cron job for hourly instead of monthly.... though it was 4am |
| 04:43.17 | ZerothCloned | night guys! |
| 04:45.17 | BryceLeo | night ZerothCloned |
| 04:45.55 | BryceLeo | i agree off to bed for me |
| 04:46.00 | BryceLeo | night all |
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| 05:01.56 | rushforth | cd .. |
| 05:01.56 | rushforth | ls |
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| 05:02.08 | rushforth | (:) sorry wrong term) |
| 05:03.18 | ljp | bash: cd: command not found |
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| 05:16.23 | bradpitcher | hey everyone, I don't see any responses on the mailing list to the issue of backing up the GPS driver, has anyone solved this? |
| 05:16.24 | aloril | bradpitcher: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 05:16.29 | happycube | bryce - back now but you're off already |
| 05:18.40 | happycube | brad - i copied off the partitions before i wrote but my macbook's not booted to linux atm |
| 05:18.52 | happycube | actually i think i put it on a usb stick - i'll check after shower |
| 05:19.24 | bradpitcher | but, I couldn't connect to the phone to do that because of the kernel panic |
| 05:19.34 | bradpitcher | at least I assume that's the reason |
| 05:26.00 | cesarb | bradpitcher: if it's one of the SH1 phones which have no root fs (which is why they kernel panic), there is no GPS driver to backup |
| 05:27.12 | bradpitcher | oh, ok. then I have nothing to lose by blowing everything away I guess |
| 05:28.51 | cesarb | bradpitcher: if it's one of the SH1 phones which have no root fs, there's nothing to blow away but the kernel ;-) |
| 05:29.01 | cesarb | (which was already flashed by mistake, according to the wiki) |
| 05:31.53 | bradpitcher | so all I need to reflash is the kernel? |
| 05:32.13 | cesarb | bradpitcher: you'd have to reflash the kernel and flash a working root fs |
| 05:32.24 | bradpitcher | ok, but not u-boot |
| 05:32.41 | cesarb | bradpitcher: yeah, no need to touch uboot |
| 05:32.53 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 05:32.54 | bradpitcher | cool, thanks dude |
| 05:32.54 | mokobot | Hello Lord |
| 05:35.35 | bradpitcher | thanks, cesarb. I will pass on the knowledge you have given me to anyone who asks :) |
| 05:35.36 | aloril2 | SH1 link given above tells how to backup from u-boot using DFU |
| 05:36.13 | aloril2 | no need for working kernel/rootfs |
| 05:38.03 | Sup3rkiddo | hey everyone, i heard that i could install ipks within qemu from my host using scp..how exactly do i do that? |
| 05:38.15 | aloril2 | bradpitcher: above 2 lines were for (and I refer to earlier FAQ link which is also in topic) |
| 05:38.39 | aloril2 | s/for/for you/ |
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| 06:14.13 | blindcoder | moin |
| 06:20.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1]] [[GPS]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[Development_resources]] [[Talk:Openstreetmap]] [[Wishlist:Camera]] [[IPhone]] |
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| 06:34.38 | aloril2 | any word about production of further phones than initial 1000 ones? |
| 06:38.48 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 06:42.08 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> [ANNOUNCE]: New 'device-owners' mailing list |
| 06:48.45 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484D710.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:56.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Back up of the "Factory Bad Block Table" BBT, needed or a |
| 06:59.02 | *** join/#openmoko xeon9 (n=node@d57-2-134.home.cgocable.net) |
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| 07:03.09 | Aria | That was fun. Kernel panic installing a vserver to build moko in |
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| 07:24.23 | ScaredyCat | gah |
| 07:24.50 | ScaredyCat | joining that new mailing list forces your password to change. |
| 07:28.32 | *** part/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
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| 07:41.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: GTA02 Board only option in October? |
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| 08:10.05 | aloril2 | about laf0rge's mail about GTA02 upgrade: good to see it and it confirms my guess that cheapest upgrade most likely is to sell GTA01 and buy GTA02 |
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| 08:19.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] |
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| 08:42.54 | mmazur | YEAH!!!! |
| 08:43.01 | mmazur | Got my UPS email! |
| 08:43.30 | ScaredyCat | :D |
| 08:43.38 | ScaredyCat | finally :) |
| 08:44.40 | ScaredyCat | nope :/ |
| 08:45.13 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:48.17 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: So you still want Jason1's? |
| 08:48.47 | ScaredyCat | yah .. you could always do with 2 :) |
| 08:48.56 | mmazur | Yup. |
| 08:50.32 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07E3AF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:51.18 | Sup3rkiddo | can i has jason1's neo? =| |
| 08:51.43 | ewanm89_laptop | ~can i has an openmoko? |
| 08:51.45 | ewanm89_laptop | ~can i has an openmoko |
| 08:51.56 | ewanm89_laptop | &can i has an openmoko? |
| 08:51.57 | mokobot | No |
| 08:52.40 | ewanm89_laptop | & is now the bot short address character. |
| 08:52.43 | Sup3rkiddo | yay.. |
| 08:52.56 | Sup3rkiddo | where is apt? |
| 08:53.13 | ewanm89_laptop | Still here |
| 08:53.42 | ewanm89_laptop | ~dtx |
| 08:53.47 | ewanm89_laptop | ~apt |
| 08:53.47 | apt | hmm... apt is the debian package manager and nothing to do with ibot, infobot, jbot or perl |
| 08:53.52 | ewanm89_laptop | see |
| 08:54.12 | Sup3rkiddo | nice |
| 08:54.17 | Sup3rkiddo | ~mokobot |
| 08:54.18 | apt | well, mokobot is a lousy competitor |
| 08:54.27 | Sup3rkiddo | &apt |
| 08:54.42 | Sup3rkiddo | &Sup3rkiddo |
| 08:54.42 | mokobot | 22% lame, apparently |
| 08:54.45 | Sup3rkiddo | aah |
| 08:54.55 | ewanm89_laptop | &apt |
| 08:54.56 | mokobot | rumour has it, apt is a wanabee me |
| 08:57.07 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 08:58.04 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 08:58.24 | guaqua | aloril: you ordered one, right? |
| 08:58.33 | guaqua | mjr: any news about your order? |
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| 09:01.37 | aloril2 | A1 |
| 09:02.48 | *** part/#openmoko `k (i=glitch@lambda.cultofray.net) |
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| 09:03.27 | aloril2 | guaqua: my Neo1973 is stuck at Lousville, KY, US for weekend |
| 09:04.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 668 has been created by jserv.tw(AT)gmail.com |
| 09:04.02 | cdbot2 | * * Invalid FEED_URIS in conf/distro/openmoko.conf |
| 09:04.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=668 |
| 09:04.35 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 09:04.39 | aloril2 | guaqua: see #openmoko-fi for updates (there has been frequent updates of shipping progress by me and mjr) |
| 09:04.43 | ScaredyCat | aloril2: seems they have bad weather... mine was delayed there too... although according to the ups site it's in .nl atm |
| 09:09.14 | Psi_ | hm.. for my neo UPS tracking "PKG DELAY-ADD'L SECURITY CHECK BY GOV'T OR OTHER AGENCY- BEYOND UPS CONTROL" was just replaced with UPS INTERNAL ACTIVITY CODE |
| 09:11.52 | ScaredyCat | is the internal ups activity code URFCKD ? |
| 09:12.03 | Psi_ | it doesnt say the code |
| 09:12.29 | Psi_ | just says "ONTARIO, CA, US - 07/28/2007 - 10:39 A.M. - UPS INTERNAL ACTIVITY CODE |
| 09:13.00 | Psi_ | before that line had the "DELAY SECURITY CHECK" bit at the end |
| 09:13.29 | Psi_ | hehe, just noticed what you said |
| 09:14.04 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 09:14.08 | Psi_ | when my neo arrives ill be checking for any signs that its been opened by customs etc.. |
| 09:14.33 | Psi_ | not that i care, just as long as its not been damaged |
| 09:14.43 | ewanm89_laptop | Psi_: Probably, at least x-rayed and goggled at. |
| 09:14.51 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081D01D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:14.56 | raster | it's a bomb! |
| 09:15.00 | raster | *BOOM* |
| 09:15.09 | Psi_ | yeah, id imagine thats what it was, got put into the pile of random stuff to be xrayed |
| 09:16.24 | raster | well its some bizarre new linux phone |
| 09:16.33 | raster | they probably can't tell what it is |
| 09:16.34 | raster | :) |
| 09:16.38 | cjb_ie | i would've imagined it'd get x-rayed at its originating airport... but what would i know |
| 09:17.06 | raster | customs authorities dont have jurisdiction at another countries airport |
| 09:17.17 | raster | also they wont trust what is done there |
| 09:17.22 | raster | it could be replaced mid-transit |
| 09:17.28 | ScaredyCat | altough american ones *think* they do ;) |
| 09:17.33 | Psi_ | it started off in Sunnyvale then moved to Oakland where this security check thing happened |
| 09:17.43 | raster | it will be checked when it enters the controlling domain |
| 09:17.51 | Psi_ | id imagine oakland is probably where it will get loaded onto a intl flight to NZ |
| 09:17.54 | raster | ScaredyCat: yes - what they think and is reality - are 2 different things :) |
| 09:18.11 | ewanm89_laptop | The British ones often ask another countries customs to help them. |
| 09:18.14 | ScaredyCat | it's a well known fact that everyone from nz is a terst |
| 09:18.22 | Psi_ | heh |
| 09:18.29 | ScaredyCat | :D |
| 09:18.36 | raster | ScaredyCat: those crazy kiwis |
| 09:18.39 | raster | i'm scared of them! |
| 09:18.39 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 09:18.40 | raster | :) |
| 09:18.55 | ewanm89_laptop | Customs job is to check inbound, not outbound (usually). |
| 09:18.56 | raster | i mean - drinking such an unhealthy amount of spates will turn you that way |
| 09:18.57 | raster | :) |
| 09:19.02 | ScaredyCat | my wife is allergic to kiwi, I now understand why ;) |
| 09:19.03 | Psi_ | LOL |
| 09:19.08 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
| 09:19.32 | raster | heh |
| 09:19.53 | Psi_ | haha |
| 09:20.02 | Psi_ | it just changed back to the Security delay thing |
| 09:20.14 | Psi_ | thats weird |
| 09:20.39 | raster | they heard us talking |
| 09:20.42 | Psi_ | time is exactly the same |
| 09:20.46 | ewanm89_laptop | customs can't make up there mind? |
| 09:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 09:20.48 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
| 09:22.35 | Psi_ | they are probably scared ever since that NZ guy made that GPS controlled cruise missile |
| 09:22.53 | raster | they are afraid of the hobbits |
| 09:24.20 | Psi_ | http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_story_skin/422751%3Fformat=html |
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| 09:26.33 | codyl | raster, do you know robi k. ? |
| 09:28.49 | ewanm89_laptop | Psi_: Maybe a neo with a couple of nitroglycerine boosters? |
| 09:29.29 | Psi_ | hehe, its got a few JATOs attached :P |
| 09:29.56 | raster | codyl: yes |
| 09:30.14 | raster | i do |
| 09:30.19 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:30.35 | SpeedEvil | Package destroyed in controlled explosion. |
| 09:31.57 | sandos | =) |
| 09:32.31 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
| 09:34.34 | ScaredyCat | "..are both members of the international non-proliferation regimes. " |
| 09:34.51 | ScaredyCat | doen't that only apply to nuclear weapons ? |
| 09:35.01 | *** join/#openmoko lar5 (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 09:38.33 | SpeedEvil | And missile tech. IIRC. |
| 09:41.15 | *** join/#openmoko b1303s__ (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-225f90a08d449ea1) |
| 09:41.44 | b1303s__ | mornin |
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| 10:19.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/fr]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 10:29.09 | ewanm89_laptop | u |
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| 10:52.09 | PBeck | hi |
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| 11:03.00 | SpeedEvil | Have I missed any kernel mode power savings in http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Neo1973_Power_Management? |
| 11:03.08 | SpeedEvil | I've added a table up at the top. |
| 11:03.32 | SpeedEvil | Of work required on the kernel to implement power managment, and my knowledge of its status and importance. |
| 11:04.14 | kiney | counter |
| 11:04.14 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in 2 days 12:27:53 (2.519±2.5 days) (1783;251) |
| 11:04.29 | mjr | Hmm. |
| 11:05.03 | mjr | Large (1W), Huge(300mW), Large(50mW), Moderate(150mW), Huge(250mW), Modest(10mW?) |
| 11:05.10 | daxxar | How come 'Large' > 'Huge'? o.0 |
| 11:05.12 | mjr | somehow the scale doesn't seem... consistent :] |
| 11:07.54 | mmp | moreover, I see huge twice... |
| 11:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko Majorie (n=Majorie@p508CDF66.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:08.37 | *** join/#openmoko x42 (n=jircii@dslb-084-063-107-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:09.10 | SpeedEvil | I need to clarify that more. |
| 11:09.24 | x42 | hi folks |
| 11:09.45 | SpeedEvil | Large - as though you can powersave by turning stuff off, you typically can't save much if the user is actually using the function. |
| 11:09.54 | ScaredyCat | I can't remember, is there a 'I just got my gta01, what should I do first' page on the wiki... |
| 11:10.01 | mjr | SpeedEvil, righto |
| 11:10.17 | ScaredyCat | I know there's one, but from reading the mailing list it seems that quite a bit is inaccurate... |
| 11:10.18 | daxxar | ScaredyCat: Yes |
| 11:10.23 | daxxar | ScaredyCat: There's a "getting started"-page? |
| 11:10.33 | sixfeet | moin |
| 11:10.33 | *** join/#openmoko noon (n=noon@p57B24E89.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:10.39 | daxxar | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973 |
| 11:10.43 | daxxar | I know nothing of the accuracy of it |
| 11:10.54 | noon | hello |
| 11:11.01 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 11:11.06 | SpeedEvil | mjr: but I probably should call it huge. |
| 11:12.03 | ScaredyCat | yeah, I tink there was something about the initial backup stuff being pointless... |
| 11:12.12 | ScaredyCat | </irish accent> |
| 11:13.43 | ScaredyCat | and is the gps effectiely useless - since there's no binary ? |
| 11:14.16 | mjr | Apparently. Which begs the question; anyone want to send me the gllin completely illegally and therefore evilly? |
| 11:14.56 | daxxar | But, uh, if the gllin isn't supposed to be shipped, how're we *supposed* to interact with the gps? |
| 11:15.04 | daxxar | I think I'm missing some vital part of information. :P |
| 11:15.23 | ScaredyCat | I think it just needs to be accidentally copied to buildhost |
| 11:15.44 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.205.8) |
| 11:16.06 | minime | SpeedEvil, I noticed there is more than one mailbox/voicemail wiki page: [[Answering Machine]], [[Wishlist:Human_screening]] and [[Voice Mailbox]]. merge'm? |
| 11:16.28 | SpeedEvil | If you can do it sensibly. |
| 11:16.59 | SpeedEvil | There is also possibly some stuff in [[Category:Profile]] and [[Category:Profile]] |
| 11:17.11 | SpeedEvil | There is also possibly some stuff in [[Category:Profile]] and [[Category:Calling Features]] |
| 11:22.33 | ynezz | yea, post that gllin anonymously on rapidshare... |
| 11:23.15 | Elrond | pir~t~bay? ;o) |
| 11:23.27 | ynezz | it's not warez |
| 11:23.43 | mjr | actually, it is |
| 11:23.47 | SpeedEvil | It is. |
| 11:23.54 | SpeedEvil | It's proprietory software of Global Locate. |
| 11:23.59 | ynezz | ah |
| 11:24.18 | mjr | (plus it's not like you can't find non-warez on piratebay if you really, really try) |
| 11:24.29 | daxxar | Is there currently no way to interact with the gps without gllin? |
| 11:24.34 | ynezz | but piratebay is that torrent site right? |
| 11:24.44 | mjr | well, you can _interact_ with the RE tools a bit |
| 11:24.45 | ynezz | why make torrent for 200kb binary |
| 11:24.50 | ynezz | or whatever size it is |
| 11:24.52 | mjr | but not get any locations :] |
| 11:24.56 | Elrond | daxxar - There is. We have some really, really basic tools to talk to it. |
| 11:25.06 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 11:25.11 | khaije1 | i see a python port project on gforge, does anyone know if python works on the qemu image? |
| 11:25.16 | ynezz | there should be everything in gllin right? |
| 11:25.16 | daxxar | What's the plan for the future? Make a substitute for gllin? |
| 11:25.17 | Elrond | daxxar - But it's months away from a "position solution" |
| 11:25.21 | SpeedEvil | The tools are so basic that it may not be possible to complete work on a driver without gllin. |
| 11:25.44 | SpeedEvil | I certainly will need a copy at some point. |
| 11:25.46 | ScaredyCat | well, that seems rather 'wank' |
| 11:25.46 | daxxar | Is gllin the software that has the "limitations" that makes it legal to use in the US? |
| 11:25.47 | zecke | hrw|gone: I thought o-hand is able to setup a buildbot? |
| 11:25.53 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: yes. |
| 11:26.07 | mjr | daxxar, legal to export/import, apparently (IANAL) use in the US is okay |
| 11:26.09 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: all GPS hardware does basically - apart from very rare stuff. |
| 11:26.26 | SpeedEvil | And the code is from Global Locate that is largely a hardware vendor. |
| 11:26.31 | daxxar | So the plan is to make an opensource "driver" that replaces this? |
| 11:26.35 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 11:26.36 | mjr | daxxar, that's the plan |
| 11:26.39 | SpeedEvil | And has better options. |
| 11:26.42 | daxxar | Okay, thanks. Then it made more sense. |
| 11:26.45 | ynezz | Elrond: there should be everything in gllin right |
| 11:26.50 | daxxar | I thought the plan was to use the binary gps driver. :-) |
| 11:26.55 | Elrond | ynezz - What do you mean? |
| 11:26.57 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: initially. |
| 11:26.59 | mjr | another plan is for FIC/OpenMoko also to ship a binary to all of us, but apparently that's not happening in this shipment... |
| 11:27.03 | daxxar | What binary software is the on the phone, except for gllin? |
| 11:27.07 | daxxar | proprietary, that is |
| 11:27.15 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil: but it's not shipping |
| 11:27.18 | ynezz | Elrond: if it's working with that GPS, all features AGPS provide are implemented in gllin... |
| 11:27.18 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: however, the OSS driver could in principle do better. |
| 11:27.20 | daxxar | (or planned to be on the phone) |
| 11:27.24 | mjr | daxxar, nothing except the flash firmwares on other chips |
| 11:27.34 | daxxar | mjr: Right. :-) |
| 11:27.40 | SpeedEvil | ynezz: I'm pretty sure that it doesn't - without paying GL for AGPS service. |
| 11:27.46 | SpeedEvil | They do not do this for free. |
| 11:27.46 | daxxar | Great, so then it *will* eventually be 100% free, :-) |
| 11:27.53 | ynezz | Elrond: so if you dissasm the gllin you can get working GPS at least |
| 11:28.07 | ynezz | Elrond: ok, I can live without AGPS |
| 11:28.08 | SpeedEvil | ynezz: it's a _big_ messy bit of code. |
| 11:28.30 | *** join/#openmoko greentux__ (n=lemke@Z6b49.z.pppool.de) |
| 11:28.31 | daxxar | Will the OSS driver eventually implement AGPS? Will FIC provide AGPS-servers? |
| 11:28.40 | SpeedEvil | See [[Server:AGPS]] on the wiki |
| 11:28.47 | Elrond | ynezz - In principle yes. People are already working on this way. But disasm for ARM is a massively complex job. |
| 11:28.49 | SpeedEvil | yes, maybe. |
| 11:29.12 | daxxar | It's [[Server:A-GPS]] btw |
| 11:29.18 | SpeedEvil | Oh - yes. |
| 11:29.19 | ynezz | IDA do the job right |
| 11:29.36 | Elrond | ynezz - IDA is bad at OABI asm. |
| 11:29.48 | ynezz | which version? |
| 11:29.49 | SpeedEvil | There are also potential issues with dissasembly, over simple reverse engineering. |
| 11:30.04 | ScaredyCat | but at this stage, it'd be nice to at least be able to interact with the gps |
| 11:30.25 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - Do you mean "interact" or do you mean "get my current position"? |
| 11:30.27 | SpeedEvil | At this stage, you need to hope that if you message someone that has one, that they'll DCC it to you. |
| 11:30.32 | SpeedEvil | if you want positions. |
| 11:30.57 | ScaredyCat | Elrond: "get my current position" is interaction also |
| 11:31.30 | daxxar | Hm, so I guess there's no Free Software AGPS-server software? :-) |
| 11:31.34 | Elrond | No, "get my current position" is basicly "getting info"; "interaction" means "_sending_ and receiving info". |
| 11:31.35 | mjr | yes, position acquisition is interaction, but not all interaction is position acquisition |
| 11:31.42 | SpeedEvil | Not yet daxxar. |
| 11:31.55 | SpeedEvil | There are - as mentioned at that page - several options of increasing complexity. |
| 11:31.59 | daxxar | Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me, guys. |
| 11:32.04 | daxxar | Yep, I read it. :-) |
| 11:32.06 | SpeedEvil | And increasing performance. |
| 11:32.09 | SpeedEvil | On another topic. |
| 11:32.30 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - But anyway: For "get my current position", you either need to wait months and/or help the FOSS project. Or get gllin from some source. |
| 11:32.45 | ScaredyCat | ok, but there is an issue with just letting people have the binary? |
| 11:32.56 | ScaredyCat | yes, that;s my point Elrond... |
| 11:33.01 | mjr | apparently there is |
| 11:33.02 | ynezz | it is, nobody want to share it :p |
| 11:33.06 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 11:33.12 | SpeedEvil | It's copyright - just as windows is. |
| 11:33.26 | ynezz | but you guys have it |
| 11:33.32 | mjr | my phone is coming in tomorrow, so I'm still open to anyone evil enough to share gllin with me |
| 11:33.51 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2559 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 11:33.51 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-07-29 Holger Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 11:33.51 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Refer to version two of the library |
| 11:33.51 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 11:33.51 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * libmokoui2.pc.in: |
| 11:33.52 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-07-29 Holger Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 11:33.54 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Refer to version two of this library |
| 11:35.03 | ynezz | yea 'with me', that's a point. And others? :p |
| 11:35.22 | daxxar | So .. they didn't get licenses for the software they *need* to operate it (as far as the vendor is concerned) when they bought the hardware+ |
| 11:35.26 | ynezz | i don't care, i don't plan to use gps in near future anyway |
| 11:35.42 | daxxar | s/\+/\?/ |
| 11:35.51 | Elrond | daxxar - We simply don't know. |
| 11:35.51 | mjr | ynezz, well, I can be evil too, you know |
| 11:36.05 | ynezz | :) |
| 11:36.14 | daxxar | Elrond: Okay, thanks. Strange. :-) |
| 11:36.24 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: post asking on the community ML |
| 11:36.40 | mjr | ynezz, in fact, see one of my parliamentary election photos from winter on my home page: http://mjr.iki.fi/ |
| 11:36.44 | daxxar | Yeah, I'll do that. |
| 11:36.46 | ScaredyCat | is the sd card slot sdio? |
| 11:36.56 | Elrond | daxxar - Yes, please post and ask exaxtly that question on the community ML. |
| 11:37.02 | mjr | the shirt says "Bad Uncle" |
| 11:37.02 | SpeedEvil | minime: Template {{delete}} tags pages you've emptied for deletion. Also check 'what links to here' and fix first. |
| 11:37.16 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: AIUI, yes. |
| 11:37.29 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: however, the SDIO drivers may not be implemented. |
| 11:37.39 | ynezz | mjr: crazy :) |
| 11:37.42 | ScaredyCat | :/ shame... |
| 11:37.52 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.ethome-ip.ethome.com.tw) |
| 11:37.52 | SpeedEvil | Also - you can't put any IO cards in it. |
| 11:37.57 | ScaredyCat | Gah! |
| 11:38.03 | SpeedEvil | Even if you cut slots out of the case, it pokes out the wrong way. |
| 11:38.05 | mjr | GTA02 will have Atheros' SDIO stack, since the wifi is behind that |
| 11:38.14 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 11:38.17 | ynezz | who reads that community mailing list? :p |
| 11:38.20 | mjr | then you just need to do creative flat-cabling ;) |
| 11:38.30 | ynezz | it's more like a IRC/Chat than ML :p |
| 11:38.31 | SpeedEvil | ynezz: the core team posts to it occasionally. |
| 11:38.36 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2560 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today/ (6 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 11:38.36 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-07-29 Holger Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 11:38.36 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Use version two of the libraries. Make taku compile without libsn |
| 11:38.36 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 11:38.36 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * libtaku/launcher-util.c: Taco's don't need libsn. |
| 11:38.37 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (launcher_start): |
| 11:38.41 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/today-launcher.c: |
| 11:38.42 | SpeedEvil | mjr: /me has thought of that. That works of course. |
| 11:38.47 | ynezz | wow, they must have some good noise filters |
| 11:38.54 | SpeedEvil | I've even I think documented it on the [[Expansion Back]] page. |
| 11:39.23 | Elrond | Huh, what's "tacu" and libsn? |
| 11:39.37 | mjr | yeah that expansion back is a nifty idea |
| 11:39.37 | zecke | no idea, it didn't build |
| 11:39.51 | ScaredyCat | http://www.spectec.com.tw/sdw823.htm |
| 11:39.56 | zecke | Elrond: libsn is libstartup notification |
| 11:40.04 | Elrond | zecke - Ahh. |
| 11:40.22 | zecke | Elrond: But this is a good reason to not use codenames for libraries |
| 11:40.34 | noon | SpeedEvil: is sdio only for I/O devices, not for memory cards? |
| 11:41.01 | ScaredyCat | zecke: yeah, codenames like 'Fudgepacking Turtle' ... |
| 11:41.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 669 has been created by autobuild-reports(AT)openmoko.org |
| 11:41.01 | cdbot2 | * * libxosd-2.2.15+svn20070729-r4-do_fetch |
| 11:41.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=669 |
| 11:41.16 | ScaredyCat | I reckon thatshould be the next ubuntu name |
| 11:41.22 | ynezz | SpeedEvil: Rapid Suspend-RAM saves only 50mW ? |
| 11:41.35 | ynezz | isn't that wrong value? |
| 11:41.55 | ynezz | and it's titled as 'Huge' saving :) |
| 11:42.48 | daxxar | Okay, sent an email to the ml now |
| 11:43.04 | ynezz | and by that 'Variable CPU clock' you mean dynticks? |
| 11:43.53 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 11:44.07 | zecke | mickey|NeoMeetin: ping! |
| 11:45.11 | ynezz | SpeedEvil: nm, just get it, that it wasn't written by you |
| 11:48.29 | daxxar | SpeedEvil, Elrond: I hope this is the kinda post you wanted: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008465.html |
| 11:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Ma88e.m.pppool.de) |
| 11:52.24 | ynezz | nice |
| 11:52.51 | Elrond | daxxar - Well, I would have used different wording, but it will get the right discussion started anyway :-) |
| 11:53.42 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-102-142.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:54.08 | Vegar | daxxar: when you get the device, can you please tell me the total costs of importing it? |
| 11:58.22 | *** join/#openmoko LWT001 (n=lwt@219.134.173.187) |
| 11:58.48 | SpeedEvil | ynezz: basically. The alternative is to have the phone in 'low power' mode when it's suspended. This uses some 50mW |
| 11:58.55 | ScaredyCat | holy crap |
| 11:58.58 | daxxar | Vegar: Hum, I'm not great at remembering stuff like that, but I'll try. ;-) |
| 11:58.59 | SpeedEvil | ynezz: this will half battery life. |
| 11:59.01 | BryceLeo|Sleepin | goodmorning all |
| 11:59.12 | daxxar | Vegar: Could you just send me an email, and I'll leave it as unread till I get the device |
| 11:59.20 | ScaredyCat | my neo is going the *wrong way* |
| 11:59.24 | daxxar | Elrond: Okay. ;-) |
| 11:59.39 | ScaredyCat | it's just hit |
| 11:59.40 | ScaredyCat | KOELN (COLOGNE), |
| 11:59.40 | ScaredyCat | DE |
| 11:59.48 | ScaredyCat | after bing in .NL |
| 11:59.57 | mjr | yeah, mine went to Köln as well |
| 12:00.06 | Vegar | daxxar: ah, yeah, good idea |
| 12:00.06 | daxxar | Vegar: Mine isn't scheduled to ship till 2nd batch, which means 10-15th of august, then it's shipping time, etc. |
| 12:00.22 | ScaredyCat | bt it's destined for .nl |
| 12:00.29 | daxxar | So it'll probably be close to a month till I get the device |
| 12:00.30 | ScaredyCat | why would it leave the country again |
| 12:00.34 | mjr | ScaredyCat, that's weird |
| 12:00.46 | SpeedEvil | 10th-15th assumes that the next batch has been kicked off already. That hasn't been confirmed. |
| 12:01.06 | daxxar | SpeedEvil: I got an email from sales that said: "your order should be proceed when the 2nd batch of shipment arrives FICA between 8/10-15. Thanks." |
| 12:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko dando (n=dando_@L2433.l.pppool.de) |
| 12:01.28 | ScaredyCat | I think UPS tracking is what you might call 'a pile of bollocks' |
| 12:01.32 | daxxar | (That's verbatim) |
| 12:01.41 | Vegar | shipping shouldn't take long, daxxar |
| 12:01.48 | Vegar | (compared to posten) |
| 12:02.20 | daxxar | Vegar: More worried about Tollvesenet, they seem to hate me. ;-) |
| 12:02.28 | Vegar | oh, yeah |
| 12:02.39 | daxxar | I have what you call a .. history with them. :-P |
| 12:02.44 | Vegar | hehe |
| 12:02.50 | ynezz | SpeedEvil: ah, so it's bad column title for that 50mW then, should be somehting like 'Power consumption' and not 'Saving' |
| 12:02.52 | Vegar | I wonder how much they'd want |
| 12:02.55 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: what number are you? |
| 12:03.10 | ScaredyCat | mjr: http://www.pastebin.ca/637947 |
| 12:03.15 | SpeedEvil | ynezz: I'm trying to work out an appropriate column title. |
| 12:03.26 | daxxar | SpeedEvil: #2233 |
| 12:03.28 | ynezz | nice |
| 12:03.40 | SpeedEvil | It's something like "Approximate total impact on battery life over not having this mode but having the other modes". |
| 12:04.09 | *** join/#openmoko pixelstick (n=dwpage@d-74-214-40-122.metrocast.net) |
| 12:04.11 | SpeedEvil | For example - Tickless kernel only saves power when the CPU is active. |
| 12:05.00 | ynezz | hm, I thought it's oposite :p |
| 12:05.18 | SpeedEvil | If the system is in suspend-RAM mode, it doesn't. |
| 12:05.24 | ynezz | ah |
| 12:05.28 | ynezz | true |
| 12:05.58 | ynezz | well, good luck with that table then :) |
| 12:06.09 | SpeedEvil | And variable voltage only saves significant amounts when the CPU clockspeed can be varied. |
| 12:06.35 | SpeedEvil | And most of it is overwhelmed in many use-cases by the huge power draw of the screen. |
| 12:07.04 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil: does the screen have a low-res power save mode? |
| 12:07.15 | Vegar | couldn't the screen be turned off while not being looked at? |
| 12:08.13 | ynezz | it should be |
| 12:08.59 | ynezz | then you've to use some button/event to power it on |
| 12:09.11 | BryceLeo | definately should be, but still, i knew of some controller cards that would halve the screen res in a special "low power mode" and work like that till it got the signal to switch |
| 12:09.44 | Vegar | daxxar: mail sent |
| 12:09.56 | daxxar | Vegar: Great |
| 12:09.58 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 12:10.05 | ScaredyCat | ynezz: shake to wake |
| 12:10.16 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-195-14-204-15.netcologne.de) |
| 12:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A56A6A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:10.58 | ScaredyCat | ;P |
| 12:11.18 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 12:11.20 | CoreDump|home | nah, I already got a neo ;) |
| 12:11.24 | SpeedEvil | The backlight is the killer. |
| 12:11.33 | SpeedEvil | The screen is totally invisible with no backlight. |
| 12:11.49 | SpeedEvil | And the CPU has to be awake at moderately high speed to run the display controller. (in P1) |
| 12:12.00 | *** part/#openmoko LWT001 (n=lwt@219.134.173.187) |
| 12:12.03 | SpeedEvil | Touchscreen interrupts are supported. |
| 12:12.35 | daxxar | Hm. But won't a touchscreen interrupt constantly trigger if you e.g. have it in your pocket? |
| 12:12.42 | daxxar | It should have a 'hold' button like mp3-players have. ;P |
| 12:12.54 | SpeedEvil | yes, you can turn it off. |
| 12:12.58 | SpeedEvil | The interrupt |
| 12:13.01 | ScaredyCat | didn't we go through this... |
| 12:13.05 | SpeedEvil | and make it so you have to press a button |
| 12:13.14 | ScaredyCat | tap sequence to wake it |
| 12:13.17 | Elrond | the aux button can wake the CPU too. |
| 12:13.19 | SpeedEvil | Not possible. |
| 12:13.22 | daxxar | Ah, yes, the buttons can wake it |
| 12:13.24 | SpeedEvil | Tap sequence that is. |
| 12:13.34 | SpeedEvil | Tap sequence implies that the CPU is in slow mode. |
| 12:13.41 | daxxar | Yeah, because a tap sequence would need processing to verify, which means woken CPU? |
| 12:13.43 | SpeedEvil | This will lead to 2 day battery life in 'off' |
| 12:14.08 | SpeedEvil | Or alternatively it means rapid suspend-RAM resume, which will use a moderate amount of power per wake. |
| 12:14.10 | Elrond | aux-button waking even works in P0. |
| 12:15.08 | SpeedEvil | In principle - the battery life in suspend-RAM, liostening for calls should be more like 5 days. |
| 12:15.37 | SpeedEvil | Maybe a hair more. |
| 12:15.52 | *** join/#openmoko code_it (n=Administ@202.177.242.157) |
| 12:17.31 | daxxar | Regarding Sean's most recent post to community, what's is a SLA? |
| 12:17.57 | daxxar | I know it's "Service Level Agreement" in the service industry, but that doesn't make much sense here |
| 12:18.07 | daxxar | Software Licensing Agreement= |
| 12:18.07 | daxxar | ? |
| 12:19.05 | ScaredyCat | mabe he means nda |
| 12:19.49 | daxxar | Perhaos |
| 12:20.18 | ScaredyCat | good news is that it looks like we'll get it |
| 12:20.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Voice_Mailbox]] [[OpenMoko2008]] [[OpenMoko2007.2]] [[Main_Page]] |
| 12:22.19 | daxxar | yep |
| 12:22.50 | Elrond | Ahh, great. |
| 12:23.17 | ScaredyCat | although... he does say 'very soon' whcih in terms of FIC timescales is probably 6 months |
| 12:23.57 | ynezz | :) |
| 12:24.18 | Elrond | *G* |
| 12:25.26 | daxxar | huhu |
| 12:27.08 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: GPS driver (gllin) licensing question |
| 12:28.46 | daxxar | Hm, aloril as started reporting ml-posts? |
| 12:28.53 | daxxar | Slightly delayed ;-P |
| 12:28.56 | daxxar | (or greylisted) |
| 12:29.26 | ScaredyCat | only from FIC bods methinks |
| 12:29.35 | daxxar | Aha. |
| 12:31.36 | *** part/#openmoko code_it (n=Administ@202.177.242.157) |
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| 12:35.00 | mjr | yeah, it's always done that, but only from out beloved insiders |
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| 13:09.07 | Kero | yay, my phone is in my city! |
| 13:09.20 | BryceLeo | heh... what city?? |
| 13:09.29 | BryceLeo | i've got a chloroform rag with your name alll over it :-D |
| 13:09.54 | Placid | hi |
| 13:10.13 | Kero | in the Netherlands, seems to have flown directly to Eindhoven, not via Amsterdam/Schiphol :) |
| 13:10.14 | *** join/#openmoko aevin (n=brootvor@unaffiliated/aevin) |
| 13:10.36 | BryceLeo | Kero: damn it, i'm in the USA and i don't think my flight will get ther eon time |
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| 13:10.53 | BryceLeo | Placid: hey there |
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| 13:21.14 | BryceLeo | somedays... i would kill for a 10K rpm laptop hard drive |
| 13:22.01 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 13:22.36 | abraxa_ | BryceLeo: Somedays... a 10K rpm laptop drive would kill you for locking it up in there without cooling ;) |
| 13:22.56 | BryceLeo | abraxa_: hahahahaha ok ok, i'll give you that one |
| 13:24.20 | abraxa_ | Can I have a neo instead? |
| 13:24.41 | BryceLeo | lol, not till i get mine! |
| 13:24.47 | abraxa_ | =( |
| 13:24.56 | BryceLeo | haha i'm terribly cruel i know |
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| 13:25.08 | BryceLeo | abraxa_: have you gotten minimo to build for arm yet? |
| 13:25.28 | abraxa_ | Let me answer that question by asking what minimo is |
| 13:25.56 | BryceLeo | minimo is pretty much gecko (mozilla rendering engine) wrapped up for embedded devices |
| 13:26.16 | thomasg_ | and developed for win mobile |
| 13:26.25 | abraxa_ | Oh, I see |
| 13:26.37 | BryceLeo | also in the OE tree and compiles/runs for x86 |
| 13:27.30 | BryceLeo | i can't tell if the screen shot here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Minimo is them running a qemu x86 env or the arm one, and if its the arm one i'd love to know how to patch minimo to get it tow rok |
| 13:27.31 | thomasg_ | imho it's much more interesting to see the progress of GdkLauncher |
| 13:28.12 | BryceLeo | ahhh, i'm not too big of a webkit fan |
| 13:29.08 | thomasg_ | well, it renders good and fast without eating all your memory :) |
| 13:29.21 | thomasg_ | gecko/firefox performs very bad on all my machines |
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| 13:29.53 | BryceLeo | thomasg_: see i've never had a problem with gecko/firefox and webkit always feels so much slower to me |
| 13:30.17 | BryceLeo | lol, then again "feel" and actuality are sometimes 2 different things |
| 13:30.27 | BryceLeo | but you are right firefox eats memory voraciously |
| 13:31.27 | thomasg_ | give links2 the possitiblity to render the sites as good as webkit and as fast as links2 and this would be my browser ^^ |
| 13:31.31 | arcanericky | BryceLeo: If you get around to working on the openembedded / bitbake crash source wiki today, I'll be looking for it and ready to give it a try. |
| 13:32.29 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: haha i'm working on it right now actually, however i'm having problems building my flashing my local qemu |
| 13:33.07 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: as soon as i get a reasonable beta of it up i'll give an irc shout out for beta testers |
| 13:33.24 | BryceLeo | thomasg_: links2 is killer fast |
| 13:33.39 | BryceLeo | thomasg_: I am a big dillo fan, but it doesn't handle the web2.0 crap too well |
| 13:33.42 | thomasg_ | BryceLeo, yeah, it is. but I guess one of the reasons for this is the basic rendering |
| 13:33.48 | arcanericky | BL: Ok. I'm past the CLI hello world and have a gdk app I built by hand and moved over to my neo to run. Ready for the next step - to integrate it with the build environment. |
| 13:34.17 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: good to hear! |
| 13:35.01 | arcanericky | BL: Until then, any suggestions where to start? Just start reading at openembedded.org and see how it fits with the openmoko environment? |
| 13:35.36 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources |
| 13:36.30 | arcanericky | BL: Thanks. Been reading through those. Guess it's time to actually apply it. Just worried about cratering my build environment and having to start from scratch. Took a day or two to build everything the first time around! |
| 13:38.03 | *** join/#openmoko christian_ (n=chatzill@Yc62e.y.pppool.de) |
| 13:38.24 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: don't be afraid of mokomakefile it's an awesome tool and very powerful, it's my suggested way to build you environment |
| 13:38.38 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: what distro are you on? |
| 13:38.55 | arcanericky | Ubuntu |
| 13:39.10 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: ahh ok |
| 13:39.47 | BryceLeo | so it won't be too bad to re-build with mokomakefile |
| 13:40.29 | arcanericky | I've used mokomakefile to set everything up and update everything every day. I guess if I have to rebuild, I'll just turn it lose and go back to finding bugs on my neo. |
| 13:40.34 | jgm | The thing that caught me out with bitbake was understanding that it has to pull the source from somewhere, and that somewhere isn't your local filesystem. So you need a subversion server, or a webserver with the files tared up |
| 13:41.06 | jgm | Once I realised that bitbake was not going to pay any attention to the files I had on my filesystem it all started to make more sense |
| 13:41.45 | arcanericky | Yea - I noticed that about bitbake. I don't understand why it doesn't use a file:/// url so you can use files on your local system (like subversion). I'm ok though - have both a web server and svn repos set up anyway. |
| 13:41.49 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: mokomakefile isn't too terribly slow |
| 13:43.09 | jgm | arcanericky: I think you can set up file:// with the SRC_URI but I'm not sure what the complete syntax is. It seems that you cannot just point it at a directory, for example. Also I'm not sure what the file URI is relative to |
| 13:43.18 | jgm | If you have SVN repos then it should be pretty easy to get going |
| 13:43.25 | jgm | I have managed it, so shout if you get stuck |
| 13:45.22 | daxxar | Is there any tutorial on "how to start your own application for openmoko"-thing? (regarding the whole structure of things) |
| 13:45.32 | BryceLeo | daxxar: i'm working on it right now |
| 13:45.42 | daxxar | Grrreat |
| 13:45.51 | daxxar | I probably won't dev till I get the hw, but still |
| 13:46.15 | BryceLeo | daxxar: haha that's cool |
| 13:46.19 | arcanericky | Thanks all. When all these bits of dev documentation start to come together would be nice if we (I?) could have a wiki that takes a person step by step through learning the process. Ex: simple command line program,simple gdk program, then integration with oe/bb. little pieces at a time so we can get a lot of others dev'ing. |
| 13:47.03 | daxxar | arcanericky: Just use the current wiki, and make an "Index"-page and group them in categories |
| 13:47.30 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: that's sort of what i'm working on, but i'm not gonna teach people how to code, that's up to them! It will have taking a basic application idea, creating a local overlay, then building and adding that app to the rootfs |
| 13:47.42 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Any idea, why the integration time is in units of (1/3928.77) sec ? |
| 13:48.00 | daxxar | BryceLeo: But I think the openmoko-specific stuff could be relevant. |
| 13:48.12 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: it'll also have a tarball with shell script to take a vanilla mokomakefile build env and setitup with a basic gdk hello-world app |
| 13:48.13 | daxxar | And perhaps some of the gtk-stuff. |
| 13:48.30 | BryceLeo | daxxar: i guess, i may do that later,but to start the app will be a simple hello world |
| 13:48.41 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Hmm, okay... 3928.77 +/- 5.803... so 3928 ;o) |
| 13:48.44 | BryceLeo | daxxar: i'll include a button for ya! |
| 13:48.51 | daxxar | Of course. :-) |
| 13:48.53 | daxxar | Yay! |
| 13:49.08 | BryceLeo | lol |
| 13:49.33 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=nosdr4g@gentoo/user/xzcvczx) |
| 13:49.50 | BryceLeo | hmmm... i wish i had a deciated server somewhere i could set up a git repo to pull it from *ponders* |
| 13:49.55 | arcanericky | BL: I agree - don't need to teach to code or teach about gdk. Assume a base knowledge and go from there. |
| 13:50.13 | xzcvczx | does anyone know how details UPS is with their tracking on international shipments? |
| 13:50.52 | Placid | slicehost.com - very good xen servers, av great prices. aimed towards developers |
| 13:50.55 | xzcvczx | like is it pickup,depot,airport,plane,airport,depot,delivered or just collected,delivered |
| 13:51.12 | arcanericky | daxxar: So for the current wiki - maybe at some point take the "hello world" page and recreate it using steps. Ex: direct the reader to using mokomakefile, then direct the reader to a hello world cli page, then to a gdk hello world page, then on to BL's crash course on how to fit it all together with oe/bb. |
| 13:51.15 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: i would like to get as many people started as possible, i man my goal is to get anyone and everyone started building and including apps, and hopefully retain like 1% of them as steady devs |
| 13:51.25 | *** join/#openmoko nimu (i=kitakota@59.89.113.101) |
| 13:51.49 | BryceLeo | daxxar: arcanericky mine's actually pulling from all of those, so soon my should be able to replace the lot of them |
| 13:52.51 | arcanericky | I don't know if I can ever stay on as a steady dev, but as someone with 20 yrs c programming experience, I want very much to stay involved with how the process flows, contrib bug fixes, testing, etc. Anything where I can be of use a couple hours a week. |
| 13:53.10 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: we can add a 'make hello-world' target to MokoMakefile |
| 13:53.39 | arcanericky | There's an idea! Having a hello world target as an integrated example would be awesome! |
| 13:53.41 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: hmm..... we could do that |
| 13:54.34 | rwhitby | BTW, if you have any suggestions or patches for MokoMakefile, don't hesitate to ping me. |
| 13:54.36 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: btw. i absolutely love your mokomakefile work, killer idea dude |
| 13:54.59 | daxxar | BryceLeo: You need a git repo? |
| 13:55.26 | BryceLeo | daxxar: not yet, i'm still pondering, but if i do you'll be the first person i ask! |
| 13:55.28 | ScaredyCat | Kero: You're lucky.. |
| 13:55.54 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: create a hello-world project at projects.openmoko.org and svn checkout from there? |
| 13:56.02 | daxxar | BryceLeo: I can't get you a dedi, but I've been meaning to set up my own git repo on a server I have, and I don't mind setting up one for you if you need it. |
| 13:56.20 | BryceLeo | daxxar: awesome that sounds good |
| 13:56.21 | DukeOfURL | BryceLeo: what volume of net traffic for the repo? |
| 13:56.44 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: that's a great idea, hahaha it'll probably take a couple days to get accepted though |
| 13:56.49 | arcanericky | As for the hello world target, also how about a 'skeleton' setup. Where one can take a sort of target skeleton and move it around to use as a new target. |
| 13:57.05 | BryceLeo | DukeOfURL: i really don't know yet, it's still forming in my head, and i don't know the demand yet |
| 13:57.12 | DukeOfURL | k |
| 13:57.29 | BryceLeo | DukeOfURL: thank you very much for the offer though |
| 13:57.39 | DukeOfURL | I have hosted servers in Denver |
| 13:58.35 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: where should we send patches? i've got a really simple one |
| 13:58.50 | rwhitby | For a data point, there have been 1146 unique IP downloads of the MokoMakefile since November last year. |
| 13:59.00 | BryceLeo | DukeOfURL: wow, that's awesome, if i need it you'll definately be on my mind! |
| 13:59.08 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: best way is to pastebin them, then ping me here. |
| 13:59.19 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: k it's on it's way |
| 14:00.07 | arcanericky | BL: Don't lose too much focus on your tutorial! :) |
| 14:00.12 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/d3f63f65 |
| 14:00.16 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: haha i wont |
| 14:00.30 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: it just adds keyboard support for when you run-qemu |
| 14:02.39 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: should that be added to all three places where qemu is executed? |
| 14:03.04 | Writchie | anybody confirm how well the gps works indoors (or go a gllin so I could try myself)? |
| 14:03.27 | abraxa_ | Writchie: Elrond can |
| 14:03.49 | *** part/#openmoko IR1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-86-249.net.novis.pt) |
| 14:04.19 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: actually probably so, i usually only go through "make run-qemu" but yes |
| 14:04.35 | rwhitby | including the run-qemu-vnc target? |
| 14:04.52 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: no i personally wouldn't add it to that one |
| 14:05.06 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:05.10 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07CF72.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:05.21 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: that's what I figured |
| 14:05.22 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-181-207.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 14:06.51 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r103 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added -usbdevice keyboard to the console qemu run targets. Thx to BryceLeo. |
| 14:07.24 | BryceLeo | woohoO! i'm famous! |
| 14:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
| 14:07.48 | Elrond | abraxa_ - What can I? |
| 14:08.00 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:08.02 | BruceLeo2 | No! I'm BruceLeo |
| 14:08.06 | Elrond | abraxa_ - Ahh. |
| 14:08.07 | BruceLeo2 | :) |
| 14:08.16 | BryceLeo | BruceLeo2: lol :-P |
| 14:08.17 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: in openmoko, everyone can be famous. |
| 14:08.45 | ScarecyCat | I can't even spell my own nick |
| 14:08.57 | Writchie | Elrond: Have you looked at gps performance indoors? |
| 14:09.02 | *** part/#openmoko nimu (i=kitakota@59.89.113.101) |
| 14:09.05 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: that sounds good to me, heck i might be able to get this as credit as an internship, damn collegegs with their stupid rules |
| 14:09.18 | BryceLeo | ScaredyCat: worse things have happend! |
| 14:09.22 | Elrond | Writchie - P0+gllin (the whole combination!) is somewhat less performant indoors than a "commercial sirf3 with patch antenna" (whole thing!). |
| 14:10.04 | Elrond | Writchie - The commercial sirf3 is a "garmin nuvi 350". |
| 14:10.11 | Writchie | gotcha |
| 14:10.26 | ScaredyCat | BryceLeo: yeah, someone just added dodgy stuff breaking usbdevice keyboard to the console qemu run targets |
| 14:10.46 | Elrond | Writchie - an FOSS hammerhead driver might get better performance. |
| 14:10.59 | BryceLeo | ScaredyCat: lol it's better than having to use that awful OSK |
| 14:11.02 | Writchie | i would expect |
| 14:11.13 | Elrond | _might_. |
| 14:11.17 | ScaredyCat | BryceLeo: yeah, ok you win on that one.. |
| 14:11.26 | BryceLeo | ScaredyCat: lol i figured so |
| 14:11.38 | Writchie | Elrond: at least position error |
| 14:11.59 | noon | Elrond: first it must work |
| 14:12.13 | Writchie | that the hard part :) |
| 14:12.21 | Elrond | noon - Yeah, I know. |
| 14:13.17 | Writchie | any body willing to part with a gllin (for my two 1973's) |
| 14:13.19 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: it's about 1/3 of the time of a 'symbol' - the 1ms PRN. |
| 14:13.19 | noon | Writchie: are you just a 'user' or do you want to write code for the gps? |
| 14:13.30 | Elrond | Writchie - Well, I have not tested position error between the two. I just tested, how well they get a fix at least. |
| 14:13.32 | Writchie | code |
| 14:13.41 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: which is a reasonable guess as to the absolute minimum time you might get a signal. |
| 14:13.42 | ScaredyCat | Writchie: you mean in exchange for ? |
| 14:14.07 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - More like 1/4? :) |
| 14:14.27 | *** join/#openmoko rschuste1 (n=rob@vpn.tarent.de) |
| 14:14.30 | SpeedEvil | Well - yes :) |
| 14:14.33 | Writchie | at minimum i can test things that require two neos and local precise data |
| 14:14.47 | noon | Writchie: how well are your arm-assembler skills? |
| 14:14.51 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 14:14.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Hmm, so that's about 250 "chip-bits", right? |
| 14:14.54 | Writchie | very good |
| 14:15.02 | Writchie | but the gsm is my priority |
| 14:15.25 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: around that. |
| 14:15.56 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: it's somewhere near what you might get a signal with with a good antenna. |
| 14:15.59 | Elrond | gnuplot> print 1024000 / w |
| 14:16.00 | Elrond | 260.641577235172 |
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| 14:17.49 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: you still around |
| 14:19.02 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: yep |
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| 14:20.00 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I'm just sorting the integration times on cold2.log to see, what the minimum used there is. |
| 14:20.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Application_Devleopment_Crash_Course]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 14:20.40 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: when you're creating your own openmoko package a common task is to "bitbake task-base -crebuild" and i've just spliced it into my openmoko-devel-image, but I don't think that that's too good a spot for it. But it would be nice to have it in the makefile, any ideas? |
| 14:22.34 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: but at the same time i don't think that it deserves its own target |
| 14:23.16 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r104 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added the rebuild-package-% target. Thx to BryceLeo for the idea. |
| 14:23.21 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: 'make rebuild-package-task-base' will now do that. |
| 14:23.36 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: sweet that's perfect! |
| 14:23.48 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: thanks dude that's going to make life tons easier |
| 14:23.58 | Elrond | BryceLeo - Shouldn't that be "Application Development Crash Course" in the wiki? |
| 14:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DB1FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:24.24 | BryceLeo | Elrond: it's coming i'm currently working on it |
| 14:24.36 | BryceLeo | did i spell something wrong? |
| 14:24.38 | BryceLeo | oh shit |
| 14:24.41 | BryceLeo | *sigh* |
| 14:24.55 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: why do you think they are integration times? Minimum poll time after they happen by the software? |
| 14:25.07 | BryceLeo | Elrond: thank you for that |
| 14:26.07 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Are you on the sphyrna-devel list? Then I'll post an explanation of what I did there (for the others anyway)? |
| 14:26.11 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:26.32 | SpeedEvil | I got the confirmation at least. |
| 14:26.47 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Short story: I varied it and tested how long one shot took. ;o) |
| 14:27.11 | rwhitby | Elrond: where is the sphyrna-devel list? |
| 14:27.24 | Elrond | rwhitby - On projects.linuxtogo.org |
| 14:27.30 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby linked off the hammerhead page |
| 14:27.38 | SpeedEvil | [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] |
| 14:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi (n=cktakaha@20132179152.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 14:27.56 | SpeedEvil | Now, all I need is the neo. |
| 14:28.12 | noiddd | SpeedEvil: how far from you is it now? |
| 14:28.32 | SpeedEvil | Well - I'm sort of part of a group buy, so that's hard to say. |
| 14:30.32 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 14:31.25 | SpeedEvil | California -> in transit to Philidelphia. |
| 14:31.28 | *** join/#openmoko Morglet (n=morgaine@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust961.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:31.40 | noon | does somebody know, where I have to put the themefiles when i build the openmoko apps for my lokal ia32/debian box? |
| 14:31.48 | SpeedEvil | 28th at 4AM - going to UK. |
| 14:31.59 | noiddd | you in china? |
| 14:32.12 | SpeedEvil | United Kingdom. |
| 14:32.17 | Morglet | rwhitby++ |
| 14:32.32 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil: well it's going the right way, mine left .nl and headed to .de |
| 14:32.32 | Morglet | But then you all know that already :-) |
| 14:32.34 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 14:33.18 | SpeedEvil | Where are you ScaredyCat ? |
| 14:33.26 | Morglet | noiddd: China is not quite the China police state yet, but give us a couple more years. |
| 14:33.36 | Morglet | s/China/UK/ |
| 14:33.40 | ScaredyCat | atm in th euk, but my neo is supposed to go to .nl.. |
| 14:33.58 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 14:34.01 | phrozen77 | ScaredyCat, why did you leave .nl for .de? |
| 14:34.11 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil:yes |
| 14:34.11 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: haha it's 10am here! night |
| 14:34.11 | noiddd | I'm starting to wonder if there will be the next presidential election in the US. All the pieces are in place for a power grab. |
| 14:34.17 | ScaredyCat | the tracking is mad.. |
| 14:34.28 | ScaredyCat | phrozen77: I didn't my neo did |
| 14:34.37 | abraxa_ | noon: Usually you put a reference to the theme in your user's gtkrc |
| 14:34.38 | phrozen77 | ah :P |
| 14:35.00 | noiddd | SpeedEvil: I know how to sew and I could in fact make one of those... |
| 14:35.11 | abraxa_ | noon: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo#Set_your_theme_to_OpenMoko |
| 14:35.16 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: I'm closely watching the Treo650 gsmd progress ... |
| 14:35.27 | Morglet | noiddd: I predict a worldwide civil war of "The People versus The Politicians" before long. |
| 14:35.41 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: Don't know of it - smartphone? |
| 14:36.03 | ScaredyCat | noiddd: my wife makes bear and animals.. |
| 14:36.09 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil: a pretty good smartphone too |
| 14:36.37 | SpeedEvil | Having more devices for OM would be nice. |
| 14:36.44 | ScaredyCat | she's made me loads of tux's a devil, a blowfish and a set of those things from the vauxhaul ads |
| 14:36.45 | borg_ | http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0386649478929 |
| 14:36.48 | borg_ | i dont get it |
| 14:36.50 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07E3AF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:36.51 | borg_ | where is my neo now? |
| 14:36.52 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: it is the benchmark of useability of a smartphone that I hold the Neo up against (the Neo fails, cause it doesn't have a hardware keyboard, so will not be useful for sending one-handed email replies while standing on a crowded bus) |
| 14:36.55 | ewon | ssh is useable |
| 14:37.00 | borg_ | is it in cologne or is it in loisville? |
| 14:37.04 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: Ah. |
| 14:37.27 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - You sell those monster plush neos? ;o) |
| 14:37.31 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 14:37.41 | SpeedEvil | No :) |
| 14:37.50 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: +1 amen |
| 14:37.57 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:38.26 | ScaredyCat | borg_: seems similar to mine... |
| 14:38.30 | SpeedEvil | You'd need shoulder straps, to wear it as a backpack. |
| 14:38.43 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: but where is it now? |
| 14:38.53 | ScaredyCat | yours or mine? |
| 14:38.55 | SpeedEvil | Integrated terabyte RAID. |
| 14:38.55 | borg_ | i thought it was in cologne allready |
| 14:39.03 | ScaredyCat | mine appears to be heading your way |
| 14:39.11 | borg_ | and then it says DEPARTURE SCAN in loisville |
| 14:39.18 | ScaredyCat | yeah. |
| 14:39.19 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *LOL* |
| 14:39.39 | ckuethe | SpeedEvil: so a pair of 1TB disks then? |
| 14:39.44 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - With Pb-car-style battery? ;o) |
| 14:39.52 | noon | abraxa_: thanks |
| 14:40.00 | *** part/#openmoko awu (n=Miranda@port-212-202-174-54.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 14:40.02 | ScaredyCat | borg_: http://www.pastebin.ca/637947 |
| 14:40.02 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Naah. Li-ion is the only way to go. |
| 14:41.10 | borg_ | mh |
| 14:41.30 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: you dont have this "PACKAGE DATA PROCESSED" in cologne i have 2 times |
| 14:41.58 | ScaredyCat | borg_: no, I have that for .NL which is where it's supposed to be going |
| 14:42.21 | ScaredyCat | but it seems to be going the wrong way |
| 14:42.27 | borg_ | omg :) |
| 14:44.21 | SpeedEvil | Can anyone comment on LED drivers in the kernel? |
| 14:46.00 | noon | Elrond: I think the use the Pb battery still in cars because of the high current they need to start the engine. li-ion battries are ... fragile |
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| 14:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=Administ@pD95389FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:47.41 | Morglet | noon: Li-ion batts are the closest things we have to WMD ... ;-) |
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| 14:49.08 | Elrond | wmd? |
| 14:49.17 | noon | weapons of mass destruction |
| 14:49.22 | noon | i think |
| 14:49.32 | arcanericky | BryceLeo: How about explaining what a local overlay is? I see I need to create one, but what is it and why is it needed? |
| 14:49.37 | Elrond | Morglet - BTW: Cool to see you back in here! :-)) |
| 14:49.46 | SpeedEvil | Li-ion batteries are expensive compared to Pb, power for power. |
| 14:53.24 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B391BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-56-229.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:56.15 | Morglet | Elrond: Hi El. :-) Not really back as such, commissioning 8-core Xeons atm, don't really have time to think about mobiles. :-) How's it going? |
| 14:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@159.pool85-50-107.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 14:57.01 | Elrond | Morglet - People have bought many,many Neos. ;-) And are now plaing around like mad. ;-) |
| 14:57.40 | Elrond | Morglet - And I'm kicking the gps chip around. Giving it all sorts of bytes and looking at its output/timing. |
| 14:58.24 | Morglet | Elrond: very cool, I'll get back here some time. :-) Is the chip making any sort of sense yet? |
| 14:59.36 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. P2 loses a speaker, becoming mono. |
| 14:59.56 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: but the socket is still stereo? |
| 14:59.57 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: limited. |
| 15:00.11 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: One speaker has gone, to make room for Wifi. |
| 15:00.42 | SpeedEvil | the headset still supports it. |
| 15:00.45 | SpeedEvil | As does BT |
| 15:00.50 | Morglet | Good |
| 15:01.10 | Elrond | Huh, no stereo on P2? :-| |
| 15:01.13 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 15:01.16 | SpeedEvil | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008458.html |
| 15:01.35 | Mandarino | Hello SpeedEvil ;) |
| 15:02.01 | daxxar | Meh, wish there was a way to get MokoMakefile to ignore -j-flag |
| 15:02.44 | SpeedEvil | On the upside. |
| 15:02.56 | SpeedEvil | The buttons have unspecified LEDs behind them. |
| 15:03.23 | SpeedEvil | And are of course translucent. |
| 15:04.11 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: ooh that's a good idea, i'll definately have to do that |
| 15:04.25 | Morglet | The iPhone must be like the Tardis, larger on the inside than the outside. |
| 15:04.39 | *** join/#openmoko lar5 (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 15:04.52 | Writchie | hope the LED is connected to charger and doesn't need device to be up |
| 15:05.53 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - The translucent buttons were expectable since months. :-) |
| 15:06.21 | Elrond | (and the LEDs) |
| 15:06.29 | SpeedEvil | Expectable - yes. |
| 15:06.41 | Elrond | _very_ expectable. :-) |
| 15:06.43 | SpeedEvil | It would have been sort-of-nice to be informed of this stuff. |
| 15:07.19 | Elrond | Harald asked one engineer to look after translucent buttons months ago. ;-) |
| 15:07.42 | Writchie | i think they never heard of design review |
| 15:07.48 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 15:08.00 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FE7ED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:08.11 | Writchie | maybe hardware guys are 100% open hardware |
| 15:08.18 | daxxar | Adding INHERIT += "rm_work" will make the build process take longer on later builds, right? |
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| 15:08.40 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: yes |
| 15:08.43 | noiddd | daxxar: Definately |
| 15:08.50 | BryceLeo | daxxar: it'll save a bunch of space though |
| 15:08.51 | noiddd | daxxar: makes every build take 24 hours :-) |
| 15:09.00 | daxxar | As they say, space is cheap. |
| 15:09.02 | BryceLeo | noiddd: you lie!! 36 hours! |
| 15:09.05 | daxxar | How big is the output image, btw? |
| 15:09.06 | rwhitby | rm_work has no effect on later builds |
| 15:09.16 | arcanericky | BryceLeo: I think I'll just leave you alone and let you write. Later (if you don't mind) when I get a chance to go through it, maybe as I work through it we can work those little things out - I can help write instead of just being bossy. |
| 15:09.24 | ScaredyCat | 10TB daxxar |
| 15:09.28 | daxxar | :-P |
| 15:09.41 | daxxar | Uhm, so who should i listen to? ;-P |
| 15:09.44 | noiddd | 32129024 for my latest jffs image (yesterdays build) |
| 15:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 15:09.55 | rwhitby | either a package is not rebuild, or it's PV changes and it's built from scratch anyway. In either case, rm_work has no effect on the time for a later build. |
| 15:09.59 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: i certainly welcome all the help, alot of this stuff i don't think to explain so it's good to have a diff perspective |
| 15:10.09 | Morglet | I still think an open phone should be modular, like I said several months ago. A backbone that you pin things you want on, and a shell to cover it all. Construct the phone you want, and upgrade only one piece at a time. :-) |
| 15:10.13 | noiddd | my buildroot is currently sitting at 9337284k |
| 15:10.17 | ScaredyCat | I just built it on my laptop in <5 mins daxxar |
| 15:10.28 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: if you'd like to email suggestions to me just send them to Bryce.Leo at the ever so fricking popular gmail |
| 15:10.29 | ScaredyCat | after the first build |
| 15:10.38 | daxxar | I meant the actual image, not the development directory. :-) |
| 15:10.38 | ScaredyCat | and I have rm_work |
| 15:10.39 | rwhitby | (rm_work doesn't touch the stamps dir) |
| 15:10.43 | daxxar | ScaredyCat: Right. Thanks. |
| 15:10.49 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: You can't. |
| 15:10.50 | daxxar | rwhitby: Thanks. :-) |
| 15:10.58 | daxxar | So there really isn't a good reason to not use rm_work? |
| 15:10.58 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: connectors are a significant volume. |
| 15:11.14 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: the word "impossible" does not exist in my voicabulary. |
| 15:11.20 | rwhitby | daxxar: the only reason not to use it is if you are debugging a package or developing a new package |
| 15:11.27 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: Making things integer sizes to fit together is ecpensive in terms of volume and cost. |
| 15:11.29 | arcanericky | BryceLeo: I'll definitely do that. I'll let you work through it and then I'll go over it and let you know what goes through my head as a read/learn. I'm sure you'll end up with a nice course. |
| 15:11.34 | BryceLeo | Morglet: did you see the stackable backs idea? |
| 15:11.37 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: you need a better dictionary. |
| 15:11.39 | daxxar | If I'm developing a new package (which I will be eventually), can I disable rm_work for my package? |
| 15:11.43 | daxxar | And what is in the temp-dir? |
| 15:11.44 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: awesome sounds good dude |
| 15:11.52 | daxxar | The directory-structure that your package populates? |
| 15:12.04 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: no, you simply need to be an engineer who sees problems as challanges, instead of as a defeatist. |
| 15:12.07 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: Making it modular will add volume, make it more unreliable, more expensive, and more heavy. |
| 15:12.18 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@ool-18b9456b.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 15:12.34 | rwhitby | daxxar: yes, you can set rm_work on a package basis, but I don't remember how - you'd need to ask in #oe |
| 15:12.45 | daxxar | Okay, no biggie, I'm not developing yet. |
| 15:12.50 | daxxar | I'll look into it when the need arises. |
| 15:13.26 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: No, you need to be aware of what is possible with current technology. Modules have to have a connector. They have to have some holding mechanism to integrate them into the phone. They have to be designed into integer spaces. |
| 15:13.49 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: none of which is a problem. |
| 15:14.01 | SpeedEvil | With a PCB, you can juggle things round flexibly, in order to make room. |
| 15:14.20 | SpeedEvil | No, if you don't want your phone to be as light as others on the market, it's not. |
| 15:14.24 | SpeedEvil | And as small. |
| 15:14.36 | SpeedEvil | If you are willing to let it bulk up, these things become easy. |
| 15:14.57 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater (n=build@ip70-191-114-7.cl.ri.cox.net) |
| 15:14.59 | Morglet | The one and only tradeoff is price. Yes, to be as small and light as a non-modular phone, it will cost more. That's fair. |
| 15:15.29 | BryceLeo | any people with a device in here? |
| 15:15.36 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:15.40 | BryceLeo | i've got a question about the physical screen |
| 15:16.03 | rwhitby | BryceLeo: sorry, my two are 15km away - I can ssh into them, but not see the screen. |
| 15:16.10 | daxxar | rwhitby: What's in the temp-dir that rm_work removes? |
| 15:16.20 | rwhitby | daxxar: the build |
| 15:16.24 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: Have you ever constructed electronic devices? |
| 15:16.41 | BryceLeo | rwhitby: have you gotten to actually hold them? i'm curious about how it feels with the screen not being recessed. and is the lcm a bit spongy and feel like it's gonna break if kept in a busy pocket |
| 15:16.43 | Elrond | Morglet - I suggested a dell-style modell at that time: Let the cusomer choose the included modules. ;-) |
| 15:16.45 | SpeedEvil | BryceLeo: what? |
| 15:16.51 | arcanericky | BL: I have a device here. I may need to be walked through what you might need. |
| 15:17.01 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: yep, EE here. So what's your point, or just going for the personal attacks immediately? |
| 15:17.03 | SpeedEvil | The screen is recessed - a bit. |
| 15:17.06 | cjb | BryceLeo: The screen is recessed. |
| 15:17.12 | StylusEater | is mosko around? |
| 15:17.13 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: ohh ok, how much? 1mm? |
| 15:17.17 | cjb | BryceLeo: Quite significantly, actually. It looks very well protected. |
| 15:17.19 | Writchie | BryceLeo: got two devices what to you need? |
| 15:17.26 | cjb | Yes, about 1mm, from memory. |
| 15:17.27 | mwester | SpeedEvil is correct; the number one problem with current hardware is connectors, which makes modular design difficult. |
| 15:17.44 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: no - I'm wondering what baseline you are coming from. At the moment, going modular will add _significant_ cost. And possibly reliability problems. |
| 15:17.49 | arcanericky | BL: Maybe 1-2mm? The corners aren't _too_ hard to get at. |
| 15:17.59 | cjb | There's also a large chunk of foam behind the LCD internally, IIRC. |
| 15:18.04 | BryceLeo | wow, you guys are good, i was just curious about how far the screen recessed, does anyone know if the backer for the screen is glass or poly carbonate? |
| 15:18.06 | SpeedEvil | Many of which could be better addressed by different phone models. |
| 15:18.14 | SpeedEvil | BryceLeo: glass. |
| 15:18.17 | cjb | So I imagine it's pretty much impossible to break the TFT by dropping it. |
| 15:18.38 | SpeedEvil | BryceLeo: the LCM is glass, which has a thin plastic layer over it which forms the touchscreen. |
| 15:19.05 | Writchie | recess looks to be about 1.5mm |
| 15:19.08 | SpeedEvil | cjb: unfortunately not - a major problem is the case flexing and unevenly loading the LCM as it's dropped. |
| 15:19.08 | rwhitby | cjb: I've dropped mine from 1.5m onto concrete pavement and it survived. |
| 15:19.09 | daxxar | What does LCM stand for? |
| 15:19.16 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: yes, you're probably right. But when you frame things as "impossible", you get the reaction you got. They're not impossible, it's just engineering tradeoffs, which boil down to money. |
| 15:19.16 | SpeedEvil | Liquid Crystal Module |
| 15:19.17 | cjb | rwhitby: haha, sweet. |
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| 15:19.35 | BryceLeo | awesome, that's what i've been looking to hear |
| 15:19.40 | Writchie | not always money |
| 15:19.49 | cjb | rwhitby: You should post that to one of the lists :) |
| 15:20.26 | BryceLeo | so it's worth it to save up and get one for myself, it just looked like the screen was not recesed and since it's not capacative touch i was worried about shattering it (did that with a treo 600) |
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| 15:20.30 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: I still say it's impossible - and have it available to consumers at a price they are willing to pay. |
| 15:20.45 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: at a weight/volume they are willing to put up with. |
| 15:21.03 | SpeedEvil | Compromise on one or more of those, and it becomes possible. |
| 15:21.33 | Writchie | size cost function pick any two |
| 15:21.53 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: you're projecting your own value judgements onto others. I currently carry a 9210 communicator, commonly known as a "brick". YMMV. Live with it. |
| 15:22.18 | SpeedEvil | No, I'm not. |
| 15:22.26 | SpeedEvil | I'm projecting the current phone market onto it. |
| 15:23.08 | spliffy | but you are morglet ... arguing with you brick |
| 15:23.08 | SpeedEvil | If it's 1.5* bulkier, and 1.3* heavier, and 1.2* more expensive, then substantially less people will buy it. |
| 15:23.55 | cjb | SpeedEvil: fewer :) |
| 15:24.17 | daxxar | Hehe. ;-) |
| 15:24.23 | Writchie | neo is small to me because P800 is my reference platform. neo is unacceptably large to my wife, who has a different platform. |
| 15:24.33 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: if a modular phone were totally pimped out with all the options, you'd probably be right. But that would be by choice. |
| 15:24.44 | daxxar | The Neo is approximately as big as my current phone, iirc |
| 15:24.53 | daxxar | (Qtek 8310 (aka HTC Tornado)) |
| 15:25.02 | Morglet | Writchie: indeed, it's subjective. We each have our own bar. |
| 15:25.07 | daxxar | Which is utter shite, and has a lot worse hardware & software (except it has WiFi) |
| 15:25.38 | SpeedEvil | Everything you make optional in the core model, you add weight - extra connectors, extra hardware to hold the module - non optimal sizing, extra case material to hold the extra volume. |
| 15:25.51 | Writchie | not subjective because market gives us an objective answer in form of sales |
| 15:26.25 | Writchie | option pack might not be a bad idea |
| 15:26.29 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: wrong. For example, the standard skeleton could be SS, but at extra cost it could be magnesium + carbon fibre, light as hell. |
| 15:26.34 | Writchie | then its just one connector |
| 15:26.52 | SpeedEvil | Consider an accelerometer. On the PCB it's a 6mm*1mm*6mm package. |
| 15:27.09 | SpeedEvil | You're never going to package it into anything nearly that small as an add-on. |
| 15:27.22 | daxxar | Well, how much it adds depends on how fine-grained "modules" you want. |
| 15:27.48 | Writchie | with csp packages connectoring is much larger volume than the chips |
| 15:28.01 | daxxar | (If anyone has ever looked at Gumstix; it's a modularized "embedded system". But their modules are like "Net+CF" and "Net+Net", etcetera, so they combine multiple features) |
| 15:28.21 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: Modular Phone on the wiki contains estimates for a gumstix phone. |
| 15:28.23 | daxxar | Which means that the size/volume overhead is slightly smaller. |
| 15:28.47 | daxxar | I'm just commenting that if your modules are feature-packed enough, the overhead is smaller. |
| 15:29.06 | daxxar | But the Gumstix as reliability issues wrt. to the connectors, and not any good 'generic casing' |
| 15:29.37 | mwester | The problem with the "gumstix" model is that you end up with fewer mega-modules, but many of them may not have sufficient volume to offer the price points desired by consumers. |
| 15:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 15:30.08 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 15:30.10 | mwester | "What is this, I can get a CF/WiFi module for $10, but the CF/Gigabit Ethernet module is $100???? |
| 15:30.13 | mwester | " |
| 15:30.16 | mwester | for example... |
| 15:31.08 | BryceLeo | anyone have cgiirc or something similar setup for #openmoko |
| 15:31.09 | daxxar | True |
| 15:31.13 | minime | SpeedEvil, ok |
| 15:31.16 | SpeedEvil | It gets messy when you consider stuff like extra radios or stuff you might want to add. |
| 15:31.23 | arcanericky | Does anyone have a suggestions as for a belt clip / carrying case for the neo? |
| 15:31.32 | SpeedEvil | The connectors for those get hard, without even considering the antennas. |
| 15:31.34 | daxxar | BryceLeo: Try googling for CGI:IRC Freenode |
| 15:31.36 | BryceLeo | arcanericky: get a psp case with a belt lop on it |
| 15:32.06 | arcanericky | Just a generic one from say - Target or Walmart? |
| 15:32.07 | Morglet | On connectors, we've been using gas-tight interference contacts for 30 years ... the only reason comsumer good have connecter issues is because they take shortcuts for cost and use crappy surface connections. It's not an issue at all, done properly. |
| 15:32.19 | BryceLeo | daxxar: i never would have thought to search for that. Thanks! |
| 15:33.05 | daxxar | Did that once, I think I found some public thing that allowed self-specified channels |
| 15:33.06 | SpeedEvil | Morglet: Show me a dense 50 way 0.5mm pitch gas-tight connector. |
| 15:34.05 | SpeedEvil | In surface mount, with a height of under 4mm. |
| 15:34.11 | spliffy | i'm curious if will be possible to order from the eu without having a credit anytime soon!? |
| 15:35.11 | BryceLeo | daxxar: my office blocks irc so it sucks during the week |
| 15:35.16 | Morglet | SpeedEvil: you'll prolly find one in the Neo connecting the LCM. If not, even the cheap laptop disk connectors aren't too bad, and can be miniaturized further. |
| 15:36.42 | Morglet | It wasn't a useful question anyway, since we don't use parallel backbones for much anymore, especially in a phone. |
| 15:37.35 | *** part/#openmoko rschuste1 (n=rob@vpn.tarent.de) |
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| 15:39.15 | daxxar | BryceLeo: Ah. :-) |
| 15:39.47 | buz_ | there's just no way gumstix pricing would reach anyone beyond the most hardcore geeks |
| 15:40.13 | daxxar | I own a gumstix-system, currently stationed at my parents place. |
| 15:40.21 | BryceLeo | daxxar: besides i know that as soon as i finish this crash course today, all during the week, there'll be questions and requests |
| 15:40.25 | daxxar | Use it as a small linux gateway/dhcp |
| 15:40.31 | daxxar | BryceLeo: hehe, yes |
| 15:40.42 | buz_ | which costs like 5 times as much as a purpose built router doing the same |
| 15:41.05 | daxxar | Yes, probably, but I can't control the purpose built router. |
| 15:41.10 | daxxar | (or, well, I can; OpenWRT) |
| 15:41.22 | daxxar | But I have that too. ;-) |
| 15:41.24 | buz_ | i was going to say, you can get 40$ routers which are able to run openwrt these days |
| 15:41.34 | daxxar | Two, actually. One in my apt & one at my parents place. :-P |
| 15:42.17 | daxxar | I bought it more for the fun than the actual usefulness |
| 15:42.38 | buz_ | my wrt54 is quite useful to me ;) |
| 15:42.52 | daxxar | Err, the gumstix |
| 15:42.54 | daxxar | Not the wrt |
| 15:43.15 | buz_ | oh right |
| 15:43.20 | buz_ | but few people will |
| 15:43.22 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@201.50.146.45) |
| 15:43.22 | daxxar | Though I bought the wrt for fun initially, as we had an SMC router present. |
| 15:43.30 | daxxar | But it's quite useful. |
| 15:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D67C.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 15:44.17 | BryceLeo | daxxar: how do you hook up the gumstix as dhcp server with only one network connection? |
| 15:44.27 | buz_ | if i was router manufacturer, i would have quit developping firmware a while ago |
| 15:44.38 | daxxar | BryceLeo: I have two, 'NetDuo' it's called, iirc |
| 15:44.49 | BryceLeo | daxxar: ahhh ok |
| 15:44.53 | daxxar | buz_: It seems like most do. ;-) |
| 15:45.06 | daxxar | buz_: (all other routers I've had has old & crappy fw) |
| 15:45.09 | buz_ | yeah but not really in favor of anyuseful firmware ;) |
| 15:45.15 | daxxar | True. :p |
| 15:45.23 | buz_ | i'd simply slap openwrt+x-wrt and some graphics on it |
| 15:45.33 | daxxar | I wonder why so many hardware-vendorss who run Linux in the background are so afraid to give the user control. |
| 15:45.46 | Qwell | users are usually idiots |
| 15:45.47 | daxxar | I mean, they don't have to support it, they can just add the option. |
| 15:45.53 | buz_ | because they couldnt sell the same hardare with a few more software features for 10x the price |
| 15:45.58 | daxxar | True |
| 15:46.09 | daxxar | Like WRT54GL - "Linux Edition" |
| 15:46.09 | buz_ | a wrt54 is plenty capable for lowend vpn |
| 15:46.17 | buz_ | but look a pricing of lowend vpn boxes |
| 15:46.44 | daxxar | The earlier WRT54's had Linux, then they moved over to that RTOS (can't rememer the name), then they released the WRT54GL (which again ran Linux) for a higher price |
| 15:46.44 | BryceLeo | buz_: and the raidus functionality is killer |
| 15:46.49 | BryceLeo | radius* |
| 15:47.47 | Writchie | anybody put vnc server up on neo yet? |
| 15:49.21 | Qwell | yuck, vnc... |
| 15:49.23 | Qwell | nx |
| 15:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko niclone (n=nicod@blurp.yi.org) |
| 15:50.04 | Writchie | you have nx up? |
| 15:50.40 | dando | Hi |
| 15:50.47 | BryceLeo | dando: sup |
| 15:50.56 | dando | sup |
| 15:51.14 | BryceLeo | dando: working on the App Dev crash course u? |
| 15:51.50 | dando | me ? |
| 15:52.04 | dando | I do some testing |
| 15:52.05 | BryceLeo | dando: lol unless you see another dando |
| 15:52.24 | BryceLeo | sweet what distro you run dando |
| 15:52.48 | dando | Ubuntu and debian |
| 15:53.42 | dando | And OpenMoko |
| 15:53.51 | BryceLeo | dando: cool cool |
| 15:53.52 | dando | ;) |
| 15:54.07 | dando | What distro do u use? |
| 15:54.10 | buz_ | at what point becomes latency REALLY prohibitive for voip? |
| 15:55.27 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:55.29 | BryceLeo | dando: Ubuntu |
| 15:57.53 | dando | I have a question! Is it possible to strip the binaries with MokoMakefile ? |
| 15:58.55 | BryceLeo | dando: doesn't look it, i grepped the file for strip and didn't find anything |
| 15:59.16 | BryceLeo | anyone with the inside track know when the new Today app will get committed? |
| 16:00.11 | dando | have you tryed file <file> |
| 16:00.15 | *** join/#openmoko lar5 (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 16:00.46 | happycube | daxxar - vxworks, even though it dosen't very well |
| 16:00.55 | daxxar | vxworks, thanks, that was the name. :-) |
| 16:01.07 | daxxar | I've never interacted with it, except I know some routers I've owned has run it. :) |
| 16:01.20 | *** join/#openmoko tnt_ (n=tnt@135.243-67-87.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:01.39 | dando | BryceLeo: ok |
| 16:01.53 | happycube | buz - yeah i would too, especially since vendors seem almost incapable of writing good firmware ;) |
| 16:02.14 | happycube | the first versions of the vxworks wrt54g's were horrible from what i hear |
| 16:02.51 | dando | BryceLeo: So the official snapshots are also unstripped. |
| 16:02.57 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54892E66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:03.02 | BryceLeo | dando: that's the way it looks |
| 16:03.10 | buz_ | did linksys switch to vxworks simpyl so that cisco could sell more orverpriced stuff? |
| 16:03.13 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:03.20 | BryceLeo | dando: the officals maybe stripped by hand |
| 16:03.23 | happycube | it was to shave off a few dollars |
| 16:03.32 | happycube | they dropped the ram and flash down to 8mb/2mb |
| 16:03.36 | buz_ | by paying vxworks license fees? |
| 16:03.41 | daxxar | Does 'strip' save a lot of bytes on the original image? |
| 16:03.45 | daxxar | Is stuff compiled using -Os? |
| 16:03.50 | happycube | yeah at this point i don't see any real cost savings ;) |
| 16:03.52 | buz_ | i wonder whether rewriting the whole thing really was cheaper |
| 16:04.12 | happycube | it also put a far worse product out, but they didn't care about htat |
| 16:04.13 | happycube | *that |
| 16:04.27 | buz_ | well that's linksys for you ;) |
| 16:04.30 | Qwell | don't forget - it's Cisco we're talking about here. There doesn't have to be any logic in any decisions they make. |
| 16:04.32 | happycube | yup |
| 16:04.34 | BryceLeo | daxxar: i really wouldn't know because i've never done it, i personally need all the debug info i can get! |
| 16:04.49 | daxxar | Hehe, yes. :-) |
| 16:05.04 | buz_ | mhh i think i just killed my kamikaze router |
| 16:05.12 | BryceLeo | dando: i really wouldn't know because i've never done it, i personally need all the debug info i can get! |
| 16:05.29 | daxxar | But most development-work will be done by people with external storage (i.e. memcards), but the 'retail phones' might not ship with it (or have smaller ones), so space-usage is kinda interesting. |
| 16:05.39 | daxxar | buz_: I run white russian. :-/ |
| 16:05.44 | daxxar | Is Kamikaze released, or RC? |
| 16:05.46 | buz_ | yeah i upgraded this morning |
| 16:05.51 | buz_ | released from what i gather |
| 16:05.56 | buz_ | but x-wrt is still alpha |
| 16:06.00 | happycube | i wonder what it'd take to get cpufreq working |
| 16:06.11 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host81-159-19-114.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:06.18 | buz_ | it kinda routes |
| 16:06.26 | Elrond | spliffy - did sphyrna-devel work for you? |
| 16:06.26 | buz_ | but doesnt really respond to any connections |
| 16:06.28 | daxxar | x-wrt? |
| 16:06.34 | daxxar | That's the better UI? |
| 16:06.42 | Elrond | huh. |
| 16:06.44 | buz_ | http://xwrt.berlios.de/ |
| 16:06.46 | buz_ | yeah |
| 16:06.47 | buz_ | very useful |
| 16:06.50 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - did sphyrna-devel work for you? |
| 16:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 16:07.01 | buz_ | openwrt without gui is just too far from regular linux to bother |
| 16:07.08 | dando | BryceLeo: Yes. youre right on that point, but on a mobile device the capacity is limeted. |
| 16:07.52 | daxxar | Well, the normal openwrt UI isn't that bad? |
| 16:08.01 | guaqua | dando: with the current memory chips it isn't that big of a problem |
| 16:08.02 | happycube | i thought li-ion batteries were in danger <3.0v |
| 16:08.04 | guaqua | _yet_ |
| 16:08.22 | dando | :) yet yes |
| 16:08.56 | guaqua | one can easily fit a linux distribution into 60 megabytes |
| 16:09.08 | daxxar | Cool, x-wrt has a new fs. :) |
| 16:09.18 | BryceLeo | dando: right but i'm currently working within qemu so i haven't worried about that yet, no cash for a gta01 |
| 16:09.22 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:09.36 | daxxar | Does x-wrt work on kamikaze, buz_? |
| 16:09.51 | buz | sort of |
| 16:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko keesj (n=keesj@ip49-193-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl) |
| 16:10.03 | buz | basic stuff works, if you install kamikaze with xwrt images |
| 16:11.04 | BryceLeo | hello class, what happens when you put an app in the /usr/bin directory and set the permissions to "644" and then try to run it. |
| 16:11.50 | dando | BryceLeo: me too. But I will bye the GTA02 |
| 16:12.10 | guaqua | i'm guessing gta02 will be a whole lot more expensive |
| 16:12.28 | guaqua | or was the price published already? |
| 16:12.33 | BryceLeo | dando: guaqua it shouldn't be, should be around the same cost because of more volume |
| 16:12.38 | buz | if it's a script and you invoke it with interpreter scriptname it will still work |
| 16:12.45 | *** part/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 16:12.57 | buz | (i wonder what that would give in a test ;) |
| 16:13.09 | BryceLeo | buz: very nice notice of that technicality! however what if the file is a binary? |
| 16:13.22 | BryceLeo | haha buz if you were in my class i'd give you full credit |
| 16:13.22 | buz | not bloody much |
| 16:14.07 | BryceLeo | buz: ding ding ding, |
| 16:14.16 | daxxar | Now, what happens if you set it 654, and you're in the owning group *and* you're the owning user? |
| 16:14.40 | daxxar | (or 645, and you're the owning user) |
| 16:14.42 | dando | BryceLeo: quaqua 499,- $ |
| 16:14.59 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 16:15.10 | dando | https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 16:15.36 | dando | sorry 450 $ |
| 16:15.39 | BryceLeo | daxxar: it runs! |
| 16:15.46 | BryceLeo | daxxar: ... right? |
| 16:15.58 | BryceLeo | daxxar: wait a sec, shouldn't user override group? |
| 16:16.11 | daxxar | Hehe ;-) |
| 16:16.27 | daxxar | It doesn't run, because it takes the "most specific" permission |
| 16:16.49 | daxxar | But if you're the owner, you can change the perms, but you have to do it manually. |
| 16:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:17.04 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 16:17.05 | BryceLeo | daxxar: yeah, i should have known that |
| 16:17.16 | buz | do you really ask stuff like that, BryceLeo |
| 16:17.19 | buz | seems like a class you cant failt |
| 16:17.35 | daxxar | Does BryceLeo teach a class? |
| 16:17.47 | buz | not sure |
| 16:17.56 | buz | maybe he was hypothetically speaking |
| 16:18.11 | BryceLeo | buz: haha i assistant teach highschool classes occasionally |
| 16:18.33 | buz | ah well basically cant fail there ;) |
| 16:18.55 | BryceLeo | buz: haha no it's def possible to fail, if you dont' try, but as long as you try and put some thought into it you won't fail |
| 16:19.25 | BryceLeo | daxxar: yeah java and in to that we sneak linux literacy |
| 16:19.39 | buz | oh i thought you would have to try hard at failing ;) |
| 16:20.02 | BryceLeo | buz: haha nah i try to make failing as easy as possible! |
| 16:20.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Application_Devleopment_Crash_Course]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMokoFramework]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[NAND_bad_blocks]] [[Dfu-util]] [[Talk:Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[IPhone]] [[Neo1973]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] and other changes |
| 16:20.36 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 16:22.41 | daxxar | BryceLeo: hehe |
| 16:23.16 | BryceLeo | :-D |
| 16:23.39 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-27-228.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 16:23.45 | BryceLeo | criminey sunburn sucks |
| 16:23.48 | buz | students must hate you ;) |
| 16:23.56 | BryceLeo | buz: haha oh terribly! |
| 16:24.36 | buz | sadly, i dont get to write exams, but if i did, students would hate me, too ;) |
| 16:24.45 | SpeedEvil | 2 messages Elrond. |
| 16:24.48 | buz | s/wrie/create/ |
| 16:24.57 | buz | ~s/write/create/ |
| 16:25.05 | *** join/#openmoko ricky (n=ricky@ppp-70-249-157-44.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 16:25.53 | BryceLeo | buz: haha, my main thing is just for them to learn something, and if they can outsmart me i'll give em credit as long as they can back it up |
| 16:26.34 | buz | thats what they all say ;) |
| 16:26.37 | unknown_lamer | hmm, am I reading the mms spec correctly in that it is just an interface using a few http headers and then an smil document? |
| 16:26.46 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: that sounds reasonable. (the messages) |
| 16:26.56 | daxxar | buz: you're a teacher too? |
| 16:27.16 | buz | research assistant mulling doing a phd |
| 16:28.06 | BryceLeo | buz: yuck a phd, bachelor is more than enough for me (though i'm still working on that bachelor) |
| 16:28.22 | buz | well i'm still working on my master, must write my thesis soon |
| 16:29.05 | BryceLeo | i definately couldn't do a thesis, not for me |
| 16:29.09 | mjr | got my bachelor's out though, in time to get married |
| 16:29.39 | buz | well masters thesis is 4month |
| 16:29.48 | buz | phd anywhere from 2 to 8 years ;) |
| 16:30.31 | BryceLeo | lol, wow, nope def not, school's not for me, not enough time to learn important things |
| 16:30.34 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: what's the typical integration period used, and what's the 'noise floor' compared to the peaks? (I'm trying to calculate if it's possible to get 'Symbol' phase accurate to enough to directly read out the position. |
| 16:32.08 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil: sometimes when you speak.... man it confuses me |
| 16:32.23 | SpeedEvil | BryceLeo: It's of the GPS innards. |
| 16:32.42 | cesarb | BryceLeo: it only makes sense if you have at least some idea on how GPS works |
| 16:32.46 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil: lol i had that as a vague guess, i know nothing about gps innards |
| 16:33.03 | BryceLeo | cesarb: ahh well then that would explain me being totally at a loss |
| 16:33.18 | BryceLeo | i'm used to somewhat getting a basic understanding... but sometimes... ohh man |
| 16:34.10 | *** join/#openmoko ZerothCloned (n=tyler@S010600195bd5cfe1.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 16:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 16:34.18 | ZerothCloned | hello all |
| 16:34.19 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: welcome back |
| 16:34.34 | cesarb | BryceLeo: what SpeedEvil said is hardcore low-level radio stuff, so it's not easy to get a basic understanding if you never read anything about it |
| 16:35.01 | guaqua | ermm, what does the Hammerhead spit out through the serial? |
| 16:35.03 | BryceLeo | cesarb: ok that makes alot more sense, if i get time i'll have to look into how it works |
| 16:35.16 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 16:35.29 | guaqua | i'm guessing it's not radio stuff - moreso a proprietary format of displaying the various data? |
| 16:35.36 | SpeedEvil | guaqua: it's basically a software radio. |
| 16:36.08 | SpeedEvil | guaqua: It only recieves the bare minimum it needs to. The main CPU does all the 'cooking' to generate a position. |
| 16:36.14 | guaqua | okay |
| 16:36.27 | guaqua | so it's nothing like the gsm chip |
| 16:36.32 | mjr | nope |
| 16:37.55 | cesarb | guaqua: well, if I read the wiki correctly, the GSM chips is in fact three chips, and what we have with GPS is a bit like the interface between the first GSM chip and the second GSM chip (with GSM, we are talking to the third chip) |
| 16:38.42 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: wanna take a peek at it in the making? |
| 16:38.58 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/A-GPS is an overview |
| 16:39.02 | Writchie | there are 3 radios in neo, gsm, gps, and bluetooth |
| 16:39.05 | SpeedEvil | Also http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead/Protocol |
| 16:40.10 | Writchie | 4 counting wifi in P2 |
| 16:40.24 | SpeedEvil | 5 if it gets a FM radio :) |
| 16:40.43 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 16:40.50 | mjr | yeah and 6 if it gets dvb-h but let's not get carried away :) |
| 16:40.59 | guaqua | :D |
| 16:40.59 | Writchie | 7 with wireless usb |
| 16:41.05 | Writchie | 8 with ultrawideband |
| 16:41.15 | mjr | wimax! umts! |
| 16:41.17 | ZerothCloned | Quick question: how hard will it be, if anyone knows, to develop applications that interface on a low-level with the wifi/bluetooth? |
| 16:41.28 | mjr | ZerothCloned, what do you mean "low level"? |
| 16:41.33 | Writchie | sounds like we need an uberradio |
| 16:41.51 | mjr | the general answer would probably be "as hard as on Linux usually", though there are complications with at least bt and sleep |
| 16:42.12 | cesarb | Writchie: actually, the separate radios are more efficient, since they are finely tuned to their purposes |
| 16:42.24 | Writchie | of course |
| 16:42.35 | cesarb | Writchie: and with separate radios you can use them all at the same time ;-) (with a small snag with wifi and bt) |
| 16:42.50 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 16:42.52 | Writchie | small? |
| 16:42.58 | mjr | it's a pretty small, the snag, since the bt and wifi parts coordinate their transmissions |
| 16:43.07 | Writchie | its the other devices |
| 16:43.24 | Writchie | like microwave ovens |
| 16:43.38 | Writchie | you should see what the 2.4 noise floor is around here |
| 16:43.50 | guaqua | 160 meter and 80 meter bands to neo! |
| 16:43.51 | cesarb | mjr: they _can_ coordinate their transmissions, we can only hope the hw guys remembered to wire it up |
| 16:44.16 | mjr | cesarb, from what I've read from the neo-1973-list, _that_ they did remember |
| 16:44.31 | Writchie | its in P2 at the expense of low power BT operation |
| 16:44.34 | ZerothCloned | oh, I know. I work in retail, selling electronics,(think Radioshack, but Canadian) and we get so many complaints about the 2.4 ghz phones not working. |
| 16:44.52 | Writchie | we had to move to 5.6 ghz for this. |
| 16:45.05 | ZerothCloned | ... seriously? awesome. |
| 16:45.47 | Writchie | i'm thinking of moving home networks to 802.11a |
| 16:46.06 | Writchie | to get away from all my wireless neighbor devices |
| 16:46.27 | guaqua | never had that kind of a problem myself |
| 16:46.52 | guaqua | i'm guessing we have real cell phones in europe, not 2.4 ghz handsets for landline |
| 16:47.00 | ZerothCloned | whats needed, is a wireless router that automatically chooses a channel thats not taken by wireless routers around |
| 16:47.20 | Writchie | 802.11n |
| 16:47.27 | Writchie | uses the whole bands |
| 16:47.28 | happycube | there are only 3 non overlapping 2.4 channels for wifi |
| 16:47.31 | happycube | they're all taken ;) |
| 16:47.39 | ZerothCloned | ouch XD |
| 16:47.40 | SpeedEvil | 802.11g uses half of them. |
| 16:47.45 | Writchie | only 1 5 11 are real channels |
| 16:47.46 | SpeedEvil | Only b uses single channels. |
| 16:48.03 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: nah, what's needed, is cooperative meshing between the routers |
| 16:48.09 | SpeedEvil | Can't work. |
| 16:48.21 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that you can't collision avoid routers you can't recieve. |
| 16:48.29 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: so they would reduce their power when there are other routers nearby, but relay the data so you would not lose the range |
| 16:48.30 | Writchie | need wideband cdma for 2.4 and 5.8 bands |
| 16:48.32 | SpeedEvil | But they still add to the noise floor. |
| 16:49.05 | Writchie | true |
| 16:49.36 | Writchie | wideband cdma plus phased array |
| 16:50.22 | Writchie | neo 2017 |
| 16:57.35 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@pool-96-224-43-11.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:58.23 | SpeedEvil | 60Ghz may be interesting. |
| 16:58.32 | SpeedEvil | At 60Ghz, you get a different thing happening. |
| 16:58.43 | SpeedEvil | As all signals are mostly absorbed in a kilometer. |
| 16:59.03 | SpeedEvil | It means that you only interfere with stuff inside that kilometer. |
| 16:59.18 | Writchie | near field is 1km? |
| 16:59.22 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:59.22 | ZerothCloned | interesting... what do you think will happen with the 700 mhz auctions? |
| 16:59.32 | SpeedEvil | The oxygen in the air absorbs it. |
| 16:59.52 | SpeedEvil | 700mhz isn't an interesting band. |
| 17:00.00 | Writchie | depends? |
| 17:00.32 | SpeedEvil | The whole hundreds of thousands of Km long antennas thing makes it awkward. |
| 17:00.48 | *** join/#openmoko hfonteboa (i=_@BHE200150063006.res-com.wayinternet.com.br) |
| 17:01.04 | Writchie | 700mhz needs to be used for wcdma 3G |
| 17:01.34 | Writchie | cell towers are spaced for 800 which is why 1900 gsm sucks here |
| 17:01.34 | cesarb | Hm, isn't 700MHz the TV range? |
| 17:01.52 | Writchie | its being freed up my moving the f^&* tv's |
| 17:01.54 | ZerothCloned | it is. tv is being migrated to a digital frequency, freeing up that range. |
| 17:02.16 | Writchie | only took 20 freakin years to move them |
| 17:02.31 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: well, it will probably take a long time until that frequency is freed around here then ;-) |
| 17:02.44 | ZerothCloned | which will suck for everyone in electronics retail, as a swarm of old people descend asking why their tvs and rabbit ears don't work. |
| 17:02.55 | cesarb | (there isn't digital over-the-air TV around here yet) |
| 17:03.09 | ZerothCloned | (yet. But there will be,.... there hsould be!) |
| 17:03.19 | Writchie | one of the stupdiest ideas ever |
| 17:03.31 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: won't these old people just need an external tuner? |
| 17:03.37 | Writchie | 6mz for broadcast when we pay $0.01 pe kb for gprs |
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| 17:05.52 | SpeedEvil | What is the size of the spectrum? |
| 17:06.05 | SpeedEvil | The 700MHz to be auctioned. |
| 17:06.11 | Writchie | yup |
| 17:06.27 | ZerothCloned | wikipedia should have the answers, one sec |
| 17:06.30 | Writchie | google's offered 4.6 billion if the rules are changed so use can use any mobile cpe |
| 17:06.32 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 17:06.56 | SpeedEvil | cpe? |
| 17:06.56 | Qwell | ~cpe |
| 17:06.56 | apt | hmm... cpe is Customer Premises Equipment. Telephone devices such as handsets and PBXs located at the customer.s site that interface with the public network. It includes equipment such as modems, terminals and routers supplied by the telephone company, installed at customer sites and connected to the telephone network. |
| 17:06.56 | Writchie | customer prem i.e. sim card based phone |
| 17:06.56 | cesarb | if it's the same range as here in Brazil, it's 614 - 806 MHz |
| 17:06.56 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 17:07.09 | Writchie | non gsm carriers want phone tied to them |
| 17:07.12 | Writchie | like it is now |
| 17:07.23 | Writchie | they do not want to compete on basis of their networks |
| 17:07.28 | ZerothCloned | heh, they always do. |
| 17:07.45 | Writchie | i mean their crappy networks |
| 17:08.15 | ZerothCloned | I've seen a lot of explanations for the nickel and diming of the telcos here, and some of them make sense |
| 17:08.24 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Lowest integration time is 99 of those units. I can create a histogram of used integration times for longtrace, if you want me to. |
| 17:08.29 | Writchie | making money always makes sense |
| 17:08.58 | Writchie | bell shaped head never understands that lower price = more revenue |
| 17:09.01 | ZerothCloned | one: upgrading the network can only proceed slowly due to the land area of Canada+US, thus, they need constant extra revenue. |
| 17:09.04 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: odd. |
| 17:09.14 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: only if there is underlying capacity. |
| 17:09.35 | Writchie | more cells when more volume |
| 17:09.47 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Hmm. |
| 17:09.48 | Writchie | as long as the basic infrastruture is rational |
| 17:09.52 | ZerothCloned | second; since asia+europe+japan upgraded first, they didn't know what would be popular, so they offered flat rate fees for everything |
| 17:10.11 | ZerothCloned | but since Canada+US upgraded after, they knew what was popular, and decided to make money off of that stuff |
| 17:10.44 | Writchie | what do you mean by "upgrade" |
| 17:10.49 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: I'm not so sure on your second point... |
| 17:10.53 | ZerothCloned | and we expect that kind of nickel and diming now. whereas in other places, they expect flat rate fees |
| 17:11.16 | ZerothCloned | by upgrading, I mean from old analog wireless, to digital wireless which can support text messaging, etc. |
| 17:11.17 | guaqua | ZerothCloned: and have failed to make as much money from the stuff as the carriers here |
| 17:11.18 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: here in Brazil, the CDMA carrier tends to have locked handsets (things like not enabling bluetooth), while the GSM carriers are the opposite |
| 17:11.30 | Writchie | that upgrade was 15 years ago |
| 17:11.35 | cesarb | ZerothCloned: and one of the GSM carriers is starting to sell unlocked phones only |
| 17:11.40 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: I don't understand how it can integrate for more than 40 or so. |
| 17:11.56 | Writchie | both networks are unlocked |
| 17:12.03 | Writchie | but you are on your own. |
| 17:12.15 | Writchie | gsm network, that is |
| 17:12.27 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: without often hitting a navigation bit boundary. Of course, there may be internal bit-slicing going on. Does it integrate for shorter periods at the beginning? |
| 17:12.31 | Writchie | new rules also permit unlocking your phone |
| 17:12.46 | ZerothCloned | Of course, to not permit such, would be a monopoly ;-) |
| 17:12.47 | Writchie | it is now defined as fair use of copyright |
| 17:13.22 | Writchie | it started as a duopoly, 1 bell 1 non-bell |
| 17:13.36 | Writchie | ended up bell vs bell |
| 17:13.44 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh, my mail was not detailed enough: s/Default/Value for searching for sats/ |
| 17:13.51 | ZerothCloned | the cdma carrier here, they charge fricking 75 bucks to change my number, whereas the gsm carrier offers anytime plan switching at no cost, anytime number switching, etc etc |
| 17:13.51 | *** part/#openmoko NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D67C.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 17:14.32 | Writchie | china is the only country that got it really right |
| 17:14.44 | guaqua | how is that? |
| 17:14.53 | Writchie | you buy a sim card and then go buy a phone |
| 17:14.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - For searching it uses 3999 (1sec). And when it hits something (the correlator hits the 0xfff), and then it starts to reduce the MaxIneTime. |
| 17:15.08 | ZerothCloned | so... China is more free than the US/Canada? |
| 17:15.13 | Writchie | absolutely |
| 17:15.14 | guaqua | Writchie: that has been the way in nordic countries from the beginning |
| 17:15.21 | happycube | ... except for when you try to use a data plan ;) |
| 17:15.26 | Writchie | that's the whole idea beyind gsm |
| 17:15.29 | guaqua | only during the past year they started selling subsidised |
| 17:15.31 | ZerothCloned | or access sites outside of china |
| 17:15.53 | ZerothCloned | data plan rates suck. which is why i want ways around it. ;-) |
| 17:15.56 | SpeedEvil | Ok. Then I guess the integrator must integrate the total power, not the power with sign. |
| 17:16.04 | Writchie | unless you free the terminal from the network you don't have competition |
| 17:16.14 | Writchie | if you don't have competition, you don't drive down the price |
| 17:16.35 | ZerothCloned | my carrier's getting better and better |
| 17:16.36 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: otherwise the bits would average out. |
| 17:16.37 | Writchie | carriers don't want competition - all business strive to become a monopoly |
| 17:16.40 | ZerothCloned | slowly but surely |
| 17:17.08 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah, and/or there would be some negative value possible or so. |
| 17:17.08 | Writchie | if a carrier is getting better, its only because there is some competitive element somewhere |
| 17:17.10 | guaqua | to create competition you need laws to prevent carriers from using all their dirty tricks to keep the market to themselves |
| 17:17.29 | ZerothCloned | of course. for example early cancellation fees suck |
| 17:17.33 | guaqua | and that's where the americans have failed |
| 17:17.44 | ZerothCloned | also, number porting had to be legislated to be allowed by carriers |
| 17:18.08 | guaqua | yes |
| 17:18.26 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Next on my list: Get some PRN/doppler shift, that usually overflows and then vary the integration time and draw peak-height versus integration time. |
| 17:18.30 | guaqua | another thing that would help is forcing the carriers to let other companies into their networks |
| 17:18.40 | ZerothCloned | and fact is, it only happened when a politician got hit by a 400 buck charge when they realized cdma sucks. |
| 17:18.41 | guaqua | practically that means virtual service operators |
| 17:18.52 | Qwell | guaqua: we already have that.. |
| 17:19.06 | Qwell | ~mvno |
| 17:19.09 | guaqua | where is this, Qwell? |
| 17:19.14 | Qwell | in the US? |
| 17:19.18 | guaqua | okay |
| 17:19.20 | ZerothCloned | we need more competition in Canada :/ Its basically Telus and Rogers. Thats it. |
| 17:19.22 | Qwell | That's exactly what t-mobile is |
| 17:19.26 | Qwell | (or, was?) |
| 17:19.31 | guaqua | then it obviously isn't working like it should |
| 17:19.50 | Qwell | sure it is - most of the companies are just run by idiots |
| 17:19.52 | guaqua | in finland it has driven down the prices |
| 17:19.54 | Qwell | ie; Amp'd |
| 17:20.26 | guaqua | though nowadays it seems the network owning carriers have bought out the service operators |
| 17:20.31 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: If you want doppler for your location, tell me where you are. |
| 17:20.53 | ZerothCloned | At&T atm controls... what, 2/3rds or more of the US now? |
| 17:21.35 | Qwell | US cellular market? I doubt that |
| 17:21.48 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - The crazy point (which I still don't understand at all): I made a plot of peak height versus doppler. And it has one maximum at doppler==0. And for PRN==1 for example, there is a fixed maximum at -243200. I have no idea, what that means. |
| 17:21.53 | guaqua | i'm guessing it has the best coverage |
| 17:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko b1303s__ (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-3fc1e576fe012be9) |
| 17:22.16 | Qwell | guaqua: I think Verizon does. |
| 17:22.25 | guaqua | interesting |
| 17:22.32 | guaqua | verizon is cdma only? |
| 17:22.34 | Qwell | yes |
| 17:22.40 | guaqua | wankers |
| 17:22.41 | ZerothCloned | and you know what really sucks? the customer service. |
| 17:22.47 | Qwell | ZerothCloned: not tmobile |
| 17:22.51 | Qwell | all others, yes |
| 17:23.26 | guaqua | but is it really so that you can't get a proper prepaid sim card? |
| 17:23.36 | Qwell | You can get prepaid all over |
| 17:23.45 | daxxar | Hm, I should get a prepaid card for when the phone arrives. |
| 17:23.48 | Qwell | mostly from...MVNOs |
| 17:24.30 | guaqua | what is mvno? |
| 17:24.40 | Qwell | mobile virtual network operator |
| 17:24.45 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: you know the doppler moves slowly? |
| 17:24.49 | guaqua | can you provide some urls? |
| 17:24.53 | Qwell | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVNO |
| 17:24.59 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: as in a meter a second a minute or so. |
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| 17:26.01 | Writchie | Qwell: i liked you run by idiots - that is the key problem |
| 17:26.20 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - The -243200 is reproducible from day to day... |
| 17:26.28 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 17:26.43 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I even doubt, that PRN==1 is visible all those days. ;o) |
| 17:26.50 | SpeedEvil | Does gllin change doppler? |
| 17:26.55 | Writchie | Qwell: do you know any us MVNO with gprs or prepaid with gprs? |
| 17:26.58 | SpeedEvil | over time |
| 17:27.00 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - You mean over time? |
| 17:27.00 | Qwell | virgin |
| 17:27.02 | Elrond | Yes. |
| 17:27.04 | Qwell | oh, gprs |
| 17:27.05 | Qwell | umm |
| 17:27.12 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: after the initial lock |
| 17:27.16 | Writchie | i thought virgin was not gsm |
| 17:27.16 | Qwell | I think Amp'd had GPRS, heh |
| 17:27.18 | Elrond | Yes, it does. |
| 17:27.37 | Writchie | i meadn real gsm/gprs |
| 17:27.38 | SpeedEvil | Ok. Plot doppler/time, and compare with real doppler. |
| 17:27.50 | guaqua | Qwell: thanks |
| 17:28.10 | SpeedEvil | That should at least get you the range I think. |
| 17:28.24 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - You created data for longtrace, right? |
| 17:28.28 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 17:28.53 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Okay. I'll extract two sats from it, and their doppler. |
| 17:29.04 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/gps |
| 17:29.22 | SpeedEvil | UT and UT = UTC time and date |
| 17:29.50 | Elrond | :-) |
| 17:30.00 | SpeedEvil | UD even |
| 17:30.47 | daxxar | Hey, sweet, I found a subscription that is $0/month, $0/registration fee, and has 120 minutes + 90 SMSes / month free. Perfect 'test Neo1973'-subscription. :D |
| 17:30.49 | Elrond | Okay... extracting channel1... let's see. |
| 17:31.10 | daxxar | Hm, and only ~$2/mb gprs. |
| 17:32.08 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Back up of the "Factory Bad Block Table" BBT, needed or a |
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| 17:33.28 | Elrond | Analysing longtrace takes lots of time... |
| 17:34.24 | guaqua | how much is a really cheapo gsm phone in the states? |
| 17:35.21 | *** join/#openmoko khaije (n=khaije1@dsl093-056-093.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:36.15 | Writchie | quaqua: depends on for what? |
| 17:36.28 | ewanm89_laptop | Neo-1973, I must have. Kill for it, will I. |
| 17:37.13 | happycube | i think t-mobile prepaid has limited gprs |
| 17:37.14 | ewanm89_laptop | Practise for talk like yoda day, I must. |
| 17:37.29 | guaqua | Writchie: any gsm phone |
| 17:37.29 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B391BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:37.52 | Writchie | you really can't go anywhere and buy a gsm phone is U.S. |
| 17:38.04 | Writchie | you can buy over the internet. |
| 17:38.08 | Tv | happycube: it has IP connectivity with port filtering and only limited HTTP places available |
| 17:38.19 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B391BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:38.26 | Tv | happycube: earlier, those limitations were in the phone firmware, so you could just swap out your own phone ;) |
| 17:38.37 | Tv | happycube: these days they seem to do it in a router |
| 17:38.54 | Writchie | guagua: any gsm 1900 will work on t-mobile and i think also on at&t |
| 17:38.55 | *** join/#openmoko gwinegw (i=_@BHE200150063006.res-com.wayinternet.com.br) |
| 17:39.06 | Writchie | but don't expect them to talk to you about anything |
| 17:39.11 | happycube | Tv - enough to run a test then |
| 17:39.19 | guaqua | Writchie: i'm just pondering whether i should get one from here that does 1900 MHz or get one from the states |
| 17:39.26 | Writchie | where is here? |
| 17:39.28 | guaqua | doing a 3 week roadtrip on the west coast |
| 17:39.30 | guaqua | here is finland |
| 17:39.45 | Writchie | i would bring your own |
| 17:39.49 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 17:40.12 | Writchie | quaqua: you can buy a prepaid |
| 17:40.23 | Writchie | quaqua: doesn't your roaming work |
| 17:40.38 | Writchie | or too expensive |
| 17:40.39 | guaqua | i don't wanna know - and it might be _really_ expensive |
| 17:40.49 | guaqua | prepaid is also a way to control the costs somewhat |
| 17:41.04 | guaqua | any idea where i'd get the sim card - going to seattle first? |
| 17:41.13 | Writchie | when do you leave |
| 17:41.17 | guaqua | is there some special stores the sell those? |
| 17:41.34 | guaqua | plane takes off on tuesday :) |
| 17:42.00 | Writchie | i think you may find t-mobile to go in shops |
| 17:42.07 | ZerothCloned | damn... Children of men is simply awesome :D |
| 17:42.11 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 17:42.16 | Writchie | i am going to a us airport tonight - i'll look around |
| 17:42.40 | guaqua | okay |
| 17:42.54 | guaqua | i'll have to look for 3-band gsm phones tomorrow |
| 17:43.08 | *** join/#openmoko mellon (n=mellon@m015f36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 17:43.26 | Writchie | full coverage actually needs quad band |
| 17:43.44 | Writchie | depends on where you are going |
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| 17:43.53 | Writchie | quad band usually not too cheap |
| 17:44.24 | guaqua | i really only care about a phone that works somewhat somewhere |
| 17:44.35 | Writchie | gsm 1900 will work most places on either network |
| 17:44.50 | guaqua | so i can call for the next day's lodging etc |
| 17:46.26 | Writchie | ZerothCloned: you must be british |
| 17:46.50 | mellon | "lodging?" |
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| 17:47.25 | Writchie | mellon: hotel accodations |
| 17:47.31 | Writchie | accomodations |
| 17:47.37 | mellon | I know, I know. |
| 17:47.41 | Writchie | sorry |
| 17:47.43 | mellon | :') |
| 17:47.58 | mellon | I was just wondering where the "you must be british" comment came from. |
| 17:48.07 | Writchie | from children of men comment? |
| 17:48.10 | guaqua | that was probable for me |
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| 17:48.32 | guaqua | americans use the word lodging too |
| 17:48.37 | Writchie | yes |
| 17:48.39 | mellon | Wow, I wouldn't have gotten that from "children of men." |
| 17:50.10 | Writchie | i mean aye |
| 17:50.10 | ZerothCloned | I was wondering why Writchie was asking me that. |
| 17:50.10 | ZerothCloned | I figured it was just a random comment. |
| 17:50.10 | mellon | Was he right? |
| 17:50.10 | Writchie | as former expat american i find "Children of Men" and "Serentity" to appeal much higher to brits |
| 17:50.10 | ZerothCloned | No. I'm Canadian, but our queen IS the british queen... |
| 17:50.10 | mellon | Well, there you go. :') |
| 17:50.11 | Writchie | i meant Serenity |
| 17:50.17 | ZerothCloned | what about V for Vendetta? Or 28 days/weeks later? |
| 17:50.27 | mellon | I've never heard of Children of Men, but Serenity certainly has a pretty strong following amongst U.S. geeks. |
| 17:50.37 | Writchie | haven't seen them so i can't comment. |
| 17:50.44 | ZerothCloned | Children of Men was awesome, go bittorrent it. |
| 17:50.47 | mellon | V is so, so good. |
| 17:50.54 | Writchie | i like Serenity too - but best scifi film ever afraid not |
| 17:51.04 | mellon | Nope, that would be Blade Runner, of course. |
| 17:51.05 | ZerothCloned | it was shown in Canada, I didn't realize it wasn't shown in the US |
| 17:51.05 | mellon | :') |
| 17:51.16 | mmazur | ZerothCloned, you don't even have your very own queen? That's sad, man ;) |
| 17:51.24 | Writchie | what no internet in Canada :) |
| 17:51.24 | mellon | Why buy when you can borrow? |
| 17:51.46 | ScaredyCat | Blade Runner.. |
| 17:52.09 | mellon | I have to confess, though, that I prefer the original version to the director's cut. |
| 17:52.18 | vallor | mellon: sacre bleu!!!! |
| 17:52.20 | mellon | :') |
| 17:52.29 | mellon | I am a heretic, I admit it. |
| 17:52.35 | ZerothCloned | Blade Runner wasn't the best, but it was damned close. |
| 17:52.35 | Writchie | nobody in france says sacre bleu |
| 17:52.43 | ScaredyCat | zoot alors |
| 17:52.45 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 17:52.50 | Tronic | Star Wreck is pretty damn good. |
| 17:52.53 | vallor | Writchie: good thing we're not in France ;) ;) |
| 17:52.56 | ZerothCloned | Nah, they just surrender @ writchie |
| 17:52.57 | ScaredyCat | mon dieu! |
| 17:53.00 | Writchie | bitch |
| 17:53.16 | ZerothCloned | ;-) |
| 17:53.21 | Tronic | Possibly the best scifi movie that I have seen. |
| 17:53.49 | Tronic | (I don't keep a list, so it is hard to name a favorite) |
| 17:54.09 | mellon | Well, there's always The Matrix, although there could have been so much more story there. |
| 17:54.23 | ScaredyCat | dus eeur dawg bayt? Neeew. <ruff snarl snalrl bite> Eeew sayd eeur dawg dus nort baty! is nort ma dawg. |
| 17:54.43 | ZerothCloned | the best scifi movie imo is 2001: a space odyssey |
| 17:54.48 | mellon | French people don't talk like that either. But that was a very funny scene. |
| 17:54.52 | ScaredyCat | </psudo-french-accent> |
| 17:54.55 | Writchie | rotflmao |
| 17:54.58 | mellon | Feh, 2001 is pure politics. |
| 17:55.05 | mellon | Bo-o-ring. |
| 17:55.08 | mellon | :') |
| 17:55.27 | ZerothCloned | its /true/ scifi. something that stretches the mind... rather unlike the Matrix ;-) |
| 17:55.34 | mellon | I've only ever seen it once, and what I remember are the scenes between the Americans and the Russians on the space station. |
| 17:56.01 | mellon | It's so much a product of its time that it's hard to actually see the story through the mask of the sixties. |
| 17:56.10 | ZerothCloned | or what about Alien? |
| 17:56.17 | mellon | Eh. Bug hunt. |
| 17:56.24 | ScaredyCat | alien 1 was ok, the rest sucked |
| 17:56.32 | mellon | It's a good bug hunt movie, but hardly great Science Fiction. |
| 17:57.07 | Writchie | collosus the forbin project - very good but dated |
| 17:57.09 | Tronic | 2001 might have been good at the time, but today it is quite mediocre. |
| 17:57.15 | mellon | Anyway, if Matrix didn't stretch your mind, you weren't paying attention... Admittedly, there was a lot in it that was completely silly, but it was a really neat world to play around in. |
| 17:57.26 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but then star wars is too.... |
| 17:57.29 | ScaredyCat | </ducks> |
| 17:57.31 | ZerothCloned | Basic philosophy dude. |
| 17:57.42 | ZerothCloned | Not very mind stretching |
| 17:58.03 | ZerothCloned | the animatrix however, was much better as a whole, and the individual stories themselves. |
| 17:58.03 | mellon | The original Star Wars was great. I saw it in the movie theatre when it first came out - it was mindblowingly good. |
| 17:58.12 | ZerothCloned | and still is! |
| 17:58.22 | mellon | Yeah, that's what pisses me off about The Matrix - they really could have explored the human-machine conflict better. |
| 17:58.23 | ScaredyCat | have you watched it since mellon.... |
| 17:58.29 | ScaredyCat | I wish I hadn't |
| 17:58.38 | ScaredyCat | ruined the illusion |
| 17:58.44 | mellon | Yes. Too bad about the thing with Greedo, but at least now Lucas admits changing that was a mistake. |
| 17:59.21 | mellon | I think the original Star Wars is best appreciated as a teenage male. |
| 17:59.39 | mellon | I was about thirteen when it came out. |
| 17:59.43 | ScaredyCat | the first matix film was ood, then they went far too much action hero shite... |
| 18:00.09 | ZerothCloned | well, see the first three star wars movies, weren't written by George Lucas |
| 18:00.11 | mellon | I really like the second and third movies, but they left *so* much story on the table that it's really frustrating. |
| 18:00.13 | ScaredyCat | special effects were always good though |
| 18:00.13 | ZerothCloned | which explains their quality |
| 18:00.25 | mellon | Heh |
| 18:00.28 | mellon | Leigh Brackett. |
| 18:00.37 | happycube | the first movie was rewritten a few times |
| 18:00.47 | happycube | the first draft of star wars is almsot unrecognizable |
| 18:00.49 | happycube | *almost |
| 18:00.50 | ZerothCloned | oh, google "the darth side" and you'll get a blog written by a very talented writer, from the viewpoint of Darth Vader. Its rather awesome ;-) |
| 18:00.59 | mellon | That is *hilarious*. |
| 18:01.00 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-129-224.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 18:02.02 | ZerothCloned | Uh oh. |
| 18:02.58 | ScaredyCat | lonely as a plasma cloud? |
| 18:04.18 | mellon | That was fun. Very silly. |
| 18:04.29 | mellon | So are people playing with their Neos yet? |
| 18:04.41 | ZerothCloned | I like the series myself @ SpeedEvil |
| 18:04.48 | mellon | Heh. |
| 18:04.50 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: you have laser reg in UK |
| 18:04.58 | SpeedEvil | laser reg? |
| 18:05.02 | mellon | I ordered a creamsicle Neo, so I don't get mine until next week. :'( |
| 18:05.03 | Writchie | class 1 - 4 stuff |
| 18:05.04 | ZerothCloned | ooh! Minority Report! |
| 18:05.15 | SpeedEvil | Writchie: yes |
| 18:05.32 | Writchie | class 1 have to be labeled or just reported? |
| 18:05.44 | SpeedEvil | Dunno. I'd check wikipedia. |
| 18:05.48 | Writchie | tx |
| 18:05.57 | SpeedEvil | I _think_ all classes have to be labelled. |
| 18:06.26 | Writchie | pointer shipped with neo's may be non-compliant here |
| 18:06.56 | Writchie | so have my kids |
| 18:07.00 | Writchie | by me |
| 18:07.08 | SpeedEvil | By the bastards at customs. |
| 18:07.19 | mellon | It's just a cat tormenting device, not a laser. |
| 18:07.27 | Writchie | pointers used to be a big problem in China |
| 18:08.06 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 18:08.08 | ZerothCloned | Just don't use 'em around cops. They get... *coughs* irritable. And thats not from personal experience.... |
| 18:08.25 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-129-224.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 18:08.41 | Writchie | schools confiscate them here |
| 18:09.21 | ZerothCloned | justifiably. |
| 18:09.27 | Writchie | true |
| 18:09.41 | ZerothCloned | almost had a cop shoot me for using a pointer... *whistles* he thought I was an assasin. |
| 18:09.51 | Writchie | you were an assasin |
| 18:09.58 | ZerothCloned | maaayyybbbbeeee |
| 18:09.59 | ScaredyCat | were you dressed like an assasin? |
| 18:10.05 | ZerothCloned | maaayyybbbbeeee |
| 18:10.13 | ZerothCloned | assassin* |
| 18:10.30 | ScaredyCat | it was the all black gear and ninja mask that gave you away |
| 18:10.40 | ZerothCloned | Really? I was wondering about that! |
| 18:11.11 | ZerothCloned | You know, I did like, try to wear the Templar white and the red cross, and blend in with monks. Didn't work very well for some reason :/ |
| 18:11.13 | ScaredyCat | and the bumper sticker "Assassins do it until the end" |
| 18:11.33 | ScaredyCat | s/until// |
| 18:11.49 | ScaredyCat | s/it /it in / |
| 18:11.59 | ScaredyCat | COCK |
| 18:12.01 | ZerothCloned | lmao |
| 18:12.53 | ZerothCloned | anyway... |
| 18:14.00 | cesarb | Speaking of the pointer, I didn't get it... seems way too overkill to have an all-dancing-and-singing stylus, when the rest of the package is what really matters |
| 18:14.03 | ZerothCloned | What happened BryceLeo? |
| 18:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 18:14.31 | cesarb | ("get" as in "understand") |
| 18:14.37 | Writchie | pointer is actually tres kool dude |
| 18:14.43 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 18:15.48 | mellon | I suspect the pointer was just something silly that happened, not something that was seriously intended. |
| 18:16.09 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-129-224.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 18:16.40 | happycube | i think it was to compensate for the lack of stylus-holder in the gta0x case |
| 18:16.42 | LovesPoisonContr | ZerothCloned: i spent the last however long writithing on my bathroom floor on the phone with poison control |
| 18:16.52 | LovesPoisonContr | i'm apparently deathly allergic to Aloe Vera |
| 18:17.11 | LovesPoisonContr | after 35mins of worthless tips they told me to take a hot shower |
| 18:17.14 | LovesPoisonContr | and it worked |
| 18:17.33 | ZerothCloned | wow |
| 18:17.53 | LovesPoisonContr | wow... nvm must have been alot longer than 35 mins |
| 18:17.57 | mwester | That's a very ironic thing to be allergic to; it's the "magic" remedy for so many other things (burns, rashes, etc)... Wow! |
| 18:18.02 | ZerothCloned | Nice to know they're well-trained! |
| 18:18.11 | ZerothCloned | to cheer everyone up: http://fukung.net/v/2212/white_supremacy.jpg |
| 18:18.16 | LovesPoisonContr | i have no idea how long, but it was insane, i couldn't think at all, and was just slamming myself around the floor |
| 18:18.29 | SpeedEvil | Hope you're not sensitised to it now. |
| 18:18.33 | LovesPoisonContr | mwester: tell me about it, man it was insane |
| 18:18.35 | ZerothCloned | damn, dude, thats horrible. what happened? Painful rash? |
| 18:18.38 | SpeedEvil | Anaphylactic shock isn't any fun. |
| 18:19.10 | LovesPoisonContr | I took literally 3/4 a bottle of benedryl and my back is still this crazy dark red color |
| 18:19.30 | LovesPoisonContr | and yet now i feel fine as day and i can think and feel fine, but man... at the time... i was like someone else. |
| 18:19.33 | *** join/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-001-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:19.48 | LovesPoisonContr | never had a feeling like that before |
| 18:20.00 | daxxar | Vegar: Hi, you here? |
| 18:20.07 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Okay, I extracted wanna-be-dopplers for prn8 and prn26 with some timestamps. Do you want the .dat (ASCII, tab seperated), or should I create a .png with gnuplot? |
| 18:20.21 | daxxar | Vegar: Are you going to purchase the Neo1973 (given the price is acceptable) before the software is mature? |
| 18:20.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_local_Groups:_Copenhagen]] [[User:Andlo]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Main_Page/ru]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] [[OpenMokoFramework/it]] [[Hammerhead/Integrators]] [[Bad_title]] |
| 18:20.35 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - My timestamps are not yet absolute, as I only have the strace stamps. |
| 18:20.44 | abraxa__ | BryceLeo: How did the stuff enter your body in the first place? |
| 18:20.49 | Vegar | daxxar: I'm definitely gonna buy one |
| 18:20.52 | Vegar | daxxar: but not P1 |
| 18:21.08 | daxxar | Vegar: Okay. Nevermind, then. :-) |
| 18:21.12 | cesarb | "Bad title"? didn't they fix that bug on mediawiki already? |
| 18:21.18 | mellon | I'm just trying to figure out how to spin buying a V2 to my wife when I already have a V1. |
| 18:21.29 | BryceLeo | abraxa__: I put it on my back for my sunburn |
| 18:21.30 | cesarb | (the bug which caused the "bad title" page to end up being created by accident) |
| 18:21.37 | ZerothCloned | Don't tell her, and send it to me? |
| 18:21.48 | ZerothCloned | @ mellon |
| 18:21.53 | mellon | She runs the family finances (and thank God, otherwise the water would get shut off). |
| 18:21.54 | Vegar | daxxar: were you considering group purchase? |
| 18:22.02 | ZerothCloned | darn... |
| 18:22.24 | mellon | I might wait for the following generation... :') |
| 18:22.26 | daxxar | Vegar: No, I've already bought and been charged. 'twas just that I found out that OneCall has the 'ideal' subscription for a phone that's not usable as your day-to-day phone. |
| 18:22.41 | daxxar | Vegar: Since it has no monthly cost, no subscription cost, and free SMSes/call time each month. |
| 18:22.44 | mellon | It would be really nice if they came out with a phone that had a hardware H.264 decoder. |
| 18:22.46 | Vegar | hehe |
| 18:22.58 | BryceLeo | abraxa__: it's my first time using it... everyone told me how great it was |
| 18:22.59 | abraxa__ | mellon: Try selling the P1 before buying the P2? |
| 18:23.11 | Vegar | daxxar: If there was a P1.5, I'd buy it |
| 18:23.24 | abraxa__ | BryceLeo: That blows... especially since such lotion doesn't seem to contain much of that substance at all |
| 18:23.39 | mellon | Dunno what the resale market will be like on P1s. |
| 18:23.45 | ZerothCloned | yeah exactly man |
| 18:23.58 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd` (n=urk@c-71-60-149-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 18:24.01 | ZerothCloned | but what I /really/ like, is how you managed to find the time to change your nick. ;-) |
| 18:24.17 | BryceLeo | abraxa__: http://www.fote.com/prod_skin_gel.html# actually this says it's pretty much all aloe vera |
| 18:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko krazy (n=krazy@75-120-42-59.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 18:24.44 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: lol, that was before it got really bad |
| 18:24.54 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: and i thought i was kidding |
| 18:25.31 | abraxa__ | BryceLeo: lol... gotta love marketing peeps - "100% gel"... yeah right, wouldn't make much sense to be 80% gel, 20% water ;) |
| 18:26.01 | BryceLeo | abraxa__: lol that's true, but man it's enough of whatever in there to make me go nuts |
| 18:26.34 | abraxa__ | Sure seems like it |
| 18:27.08 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno2 (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 18:30.36 | abraxa__ | Anyone got a hint for me on how to obtain a reference to the GTK main loop? Is writing my own idle func really the only way? |
| 18:30.43 | mwester | The resale market for P1's might be really good -- if you sell it soon enough, mellon! |
| 18:31.03 | ZerothCloned | Tell them its a p2 ;-) |
| 18:31.10 | daxxar | Vegar: You miss the WLAN? |
| 18:31.26 | Vegar | yes |
| 18:31.34 | BryceLeo | abraxa_: i think so... i'm not sure |
| 18:31.37 | mellon | mwester:not selling it until there's something better in my hot little hands. |
| 18:31.41 | Elrond | abraxa_ - What do you want to do? |
| 18:31.45 | Vegar | daxxar: and the nice battery |
| 18:32.13 | daxxar | Vegar: Bigger battery on GTA02? |
| 18:32.30 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: either png or dat |
| 18:32.36 | Vegar | daxxar: yes |
| 18:32.40 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 18:32.42 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Okay. |
| 18:32.59 | daxxar | mwester: Paste links if you find any, :-) |
| 18:33.03 | BryceLeo | mwester: careful... there are some shady people out there |
| 18:33.51 | abraxa_ | Elrond: gstreamer apparently also uses the main message loop for its messages and I need to listen on it for certain messages (e.g. end-of-stream notifications) - however without a reference to the main loop I can't add a listener to the message queue |
| 18:34.19 | jgm | abraxa_: You get a reference when you create it, couldn't you use that? |
| 18:34.40 | abraxa_ | jgm: What do you mean by 'create' exactly? |
| 18:34.54 | jgm | g_main_loop_new () |
| 18:35.19 | abraxa_ | I thought about that as well but how am I going to handle GTK's main loop when creating my own? |
| 18:35.51 | Elrond | Huh, I'm confused. ;-) |
| 18:35.55 | jgm | Well if you don't control the main loop then you should be able to get it if you have a default context |
| 18:36.04 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 18:36.40 | jgm | g_main_loop_ref (g_main_context_default ()) |
| 18:36.58 | abraxa_ | Elrond: GTK creates its own message loop when you call gtk_main() - but need a reference to said loop. If I create my own loop then I can't use gtk_main() anymore, however |
| 18:37.15 | abraxa_ | jgm: Thanks, let me see... |
| 18:41.22 | abraxa_ | jgm: Hmm, for one I'm unsure whether your suggested code would work because g_main_context_default() returns a GMainContext whereas g_main_loop_ref() expects a GMainLoop as parameter |
| 18:42.01 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 18:43.40 | jgm | Hmm... thought it was something like that, let me go check... |
| 18:43.45 | Writchie | hey! just made first outgoing and incoming calls on my neo - too bad no sound |
| 18:43.46 | Elrond | g_main_loop_ref increases the reference count. |
| 18:44.12 | BryceLeo | Writchie: congrats |
| 18:44.45 | ZerothCloned | Congrats man |
| 18:45.08 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 18:45.25 | Elrond | <-- heads for dinner. |
| 18:45.34 | abraxa_ | Enjoy, Elrond |
| 18:48.09 | BryceLeo | c ya Elrond |
| 18:50.01 | Aria | abraxa_: I think you're supposed to just create your own loop if you need it, and call the iteration function |
| 18:50.18 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@ACC8012C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:53.39 | abraxa_ | Aria: I'm not so sure... the gstreamer manual says that one way to integrate gstreamer's message system is to "Run a GLib/Gtk+ main loop (or iterate the defauly GLib main context yourself regularly) and attach some kind of watch to the bus." |
| 18:54.13 | abraxa_ | My idea was to run the GTK+ main loop and attach said watch but for that I need a reference to the main loop - which GTK+ doesn't expose, apparently |
| 18:54.19 | Aria | Hrm. |
| 18:54.22 | Aria | Weird! |
| 18:54.27 | abraxa_ | Very much so... |
| 18:57.07 | Aria | Time to go dig up some simple gst code. |
| 18:57.29 | jgm | Hmm... yep I can't see a way of getting the main loop if you don't already know it |
| 18:58.23 | abraxa_ | Aria: I think I know now... gst_bus_add_watch() actually attaches a message handler to the main *context*, not the main *loop*... |
| 18:58.31 | *** join/#openmoko glLoadIdentity (n=gl@modemcable010.81-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:58.47 | abraxa_ | So actually I don't need the loop handle after all |
| 18:59.44 | abraxa_ | Just... can I even make use of the main context before calling gtk_main() or does gtk_main() create it? Ugh... |
| 19:00.14 | abraxa_ | I don't feel like writing an idle function just to run some one-time code |
| 19:00.29 | Aria | I think gtk_main creates it |
| 19:01.00 | jgm | Can you add handlers to the context if the loop is present? Thought you only added to to the context if there wasn't a loop... |
| 19:01.39 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Maa55.m.pppool.de) |
| 19:02.24 | Aria | abraxa_: What's the actual message you're trying to get? |
| 19:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 19:04.21 | abraxa_ | Aria: I want to use the playbin bin for playback of audio streams - the playbin sends messages to the message bus that inform the application of the playback pipe's state (end-of-stream, tag data, etc) |
| 19:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host63-122-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:05.21 | abraxa_ | Aria: I think I found a way to make things work for me, though... let's see if I'm right :) |
| 19:05.24 | Aria | Woot! |
| 19:05.26 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-129-224.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 19:05.51 | abraxa_ | Aria, jgm: Thanks for your assistance, guys |
| 19:06.03 | Aria | Sure thing. |
| 19:06.16 | Aria | 'learn gstreamer' is still on my todo list. |
| 19:06.34 | abraxa_ | Good luck, the docs are less-than-stellar |
| 19:07.26 | jgm | Is there a GUI designer available GTK now? I thought they deprecated glade but can't remember what they were going to replace it with... |
| 19:07.27 | glLoadIdentity | ok, did anybody ordered neo1973 to quebec canada ? |
| 19:07.28 | aloril | glLoadIdentity: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:07.53 | abraxa_ | jgm: Actually glade isn't deprecated - glade's code generation engine is |
| 19:09.03 | mjr | yeah |
| 19:09.11 | mjr | glade+libglade is it nowadays |
| 19:09.22 | jgm | Okay so I just work with glade and am okay then, thanks |
| 19:10.53 | glLoadIdentity | and did anyone tried to run any voip software on it ? |
| 19:11.22 | *** join/#openmoko bradpitcher (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:12.11 | abraxa_ | glLoadIdentity: Not that I know of because VoIP is pointless using GPRS |
| 19:13.36 | glLoadIdentity | abraxa_, i saw a project for porting asterisk for it.. thats why i asked.. |
| 19:13.51 | abraxa_ | glLoadIdentity: Sorry, no idea how far those guys have made it :) |
| 19:14.18 | glLoadIdentity | abraxa_, yeah, thats pointless unless there is the wifi.. |
| 19:14.56 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-129-224.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 19:15.51 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@2001:618:1a23:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 19:20.05 | noon | jgm: glade generats a xml file you have to load on startup of your application |
| 19:20.10 | Elrond | I would be more interested in twinkle on it. ;-) |
| 19:20.43 | noon | jgm: the old glade-way, eg generating code, is deprecated |
| 19:20.54 | noon | Elrond: how was dinner? |
| 19:21.02 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 19:21.26 | Elrond | noon - Fine. |
| 19:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko mellon (n=mellon@m015f36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 19:22.23 | noon | jgm: I don't know if libglade is availeable on the openmoko |
| 19:22.46 | noon | jgm: I used pygtk sofar and it worked nicely |
| 19:22.53 | Elrond | It's not on the default install. Nor is it build on buildhost. :-( |
| 19:23.20 | noon | Elrond: so it's do-it-yourself? |
| 19:23.30 | Elrond | Oh, wait. |
| 19:23.38 | Elrond | I'm wrong. It's there on buildhost. |
| 19:23.50 | jgm | noon: I'm coding in C so pygtk won't help me. |
| 19:24.05 | Elrond | Yes, the C bindings are on buildhost. |
| 19:24.27 | Elrond | I don't know, if it's in the default rootfs. |
| 19:24.34 | happycube | you can push-to-talk with gprs but that's it |
| 19:25.19 | mjr | abraxa_, glLoadIdentity, there's bluetooth (and even USB) connectivity that can be voip-usable. Sure, not as widespread as wifi, but may be useful at home/work/stuff, and for voip devel. |
| 19:25.53 | noon | jgm: that's why i said "I used" and not "you should use" ;-) |
| 19:26.38 | abraxa_ | jgm: One of the OM2007 apps uses libglade as far as I remember so it should be available |
| 19:26.39 | jgm | <dreams of GTA02 and using clutter> |
| 19:27.10 | xkr47 | you boys! how many happy neo owners on the channel already ?-) |
| 19:27.12 | glLoadIdentity | mjr, yeah, thats possible as well.. |
| 19:27.16 | xkr47 | yo* |
| 19:27.24 | xkr47 | girls also.. ^^ |
| 19:27.38 | Writchie | any other genders? |
| 19:28.10 | Writchie | got sound working now, i mean feedback only - who do I sue for ear damage? |
| 19:28.16 | mjr | I'll probably have a bluetooth network available at both home and work, myself... |
| 19:28.18 | xkr47 | genderless maybe |
| 19:28.39 | xkr47 | Writchie, there was a disclaimer already 4 months ago |
| 19:28.51 | Writchie | nothing in the box |
| 19:29.17 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 19:29.30 | Writchie | warning!!! do not test using headset on other end |
| 19:29.56 | Writchie | seriously, i don't think these meet GSM spec |
| 19:30.07 | Writchie | need to test max spl |
| 19:30.43 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/941848609/in/set-72157600610900691/ (and the previous/next pic. Enlarge for the png) |
| 19:30.45 | glLoadIdentity | i think i will go for a neo1973 .. |
| 19:31.02 | noon | does someone have a good ressource avout gtk themes? |
| 19:31.05 | noon | -v+b |
| 19:31.48 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 19:32.03 | roh | noon gtk.org |
| 19:32.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 19:34.48 | *** join/#openmoko bytewarrior (n=na@p3EE0DEDC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:36.43 | noon | roh. thank you. but it didn't solve my problem |
| 19:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@198.36.194.3) |
| 19:40.40 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 19:41.00 | *** part/#openmoko glLoadIdentity (n=gl@modemcable010.81-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:42.39 | roh | noon i would advice to ignore any current state of software and especially polishing work like themeing till the software works and is 'done' basically |
| 19:44.31 | *** join/#openmoko |berserk| (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
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| 19:46.06 | noon | roh: your are to late. |
| 19:46.36 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@pool-96-224-43-11.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:46.42 | noon | I'm trying to get this grey border awa around gtkentry in the current std. theme |
| 19:46.47 | noon | +y |
| 19:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko ratur (n=ratur@254.46-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:48.25 | noon | the theme for the horizontal scrollbar i have already fixed |
| 19:49.38 | *** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171) |
| 19:50.04 | noon | roh: do you know where the gray color for the background of the gtkentry field comes from? |
| 19:50.23 | roh | nope.. ive no clue about gtk themeing |
| 19:50.24 | noon | I tried to override it in the theme file, but nothing happend |
| 19:50.44 | roh | but i know that some things there will be changing soon. |
| 19:50.49 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0AE96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:51.45 | Elrond | roh - noon knows. |
| 19:52.08 | roh | Elrond good :) |
| 19:52.18 | noon | roh: but i don't think they will completly discard the old theme |
| 19:52.44 | Elrond | roh - We already saw the new theme ;-) |
| 19:53.18 | *** join/#openmoko pivs (n=pivs@ppp-71-134-22-183.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 19:53.35 | *** join/#openmoko _berserk_ (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 19:53.41 | pivs | hello |
| 19:54.20 | pivs_ | hello? |
| 19:54.20 | aloril | pivs_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:55.17 | mellon | The problem with artificial intelligence is that it tries to overgeneralize from a single bit. |
| 19:55.57 | pivs_ | anyone try the new1973? |
| 19:56.29 | Elrond | pivs_ - A few people in here, yes. |
| 19:56.41 | Elrond | pivs_ - It's "neo", not "new" |
| 19:56.56 | pivs_ | excellent! i've only seen pictures. |
| 19:57.12 | pivs_ | right 'neo1973', sorry. |
| 19:58.28 | Elrond | pivs_ - It's currently for developers, really. |
| 19:58.55 | pivs_ | not quite iphone level yet? |
| 19:59.05 | mellon | Not quite phone call level yet. |
| 19:59.08 | SpeedEvil | Got some way to go. |
| 19:59.21 | Writchie | handset - 6 months |
| 19:59.26 | Writchie | iphone - 1 year |
| 20:00.12 | ferric | 1 year is slightly optimistic. |
| 20:00.18 | Writchie | workable for phone calls maybe 1 month |
| 20:00.22 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - You saw the pics? |
| 20:00.25 | Writchie | in hands of developer that is |
| 20:00.51 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:00.52 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 20:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 20:01.09 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 20:01.15 | pivs_ | what i really want to see is how it compares to the palm linux phone that's supposed to be out next year. |
| 20:01.41 | Writchie | if you want to compare wait until both exist |
| 20:01.43 | mellon | It doesn't really compare to anything right now because very few phones you can buy today require you to type in command-line commands to make a phone call. |
| 20:02.31 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@x-net.hu) |
| 20:02.41 | pivs_ | that's true writchie |
| 20:02.48 | Writchie | compares best to a wrt box with usb |
| 20:03.15 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423_ (n=chatzill@A7663.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 20:03.24 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: interesting. |
| 20:05.30 | pivs_ | i'm on the website and it says it's running a 266mhz cpu with a 1200mah, anyone know the battery life on it? |
| 20:05.42 | SpeedEvil | pivs_: to be determined. |
| 20:05.51 | Aria | Power usage reduction is still in the works. |
| 20:05.56 | Aria | The software side especially. |
| 20:05.57 | SpeedEvil | Battery life is wholly dependant on power managment. |
| 20:06.06 | SpeedEvil | Power managment is almost entirely missing. |
| 20:06.24 | pivs_ | ergg |
| 20:06.32 | Aria | Hey, it's a developer preview right now |
| 20:06.38 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management |
| 20:06.43 | *** join/#openmoko rbrunhuber (n=Miranda@dslb-088-065-139-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:06.43 | Aria | To get the OS and a real device out there to develop for |
| 20:06.48 | mmazur | It doesn't do any power management afaik now. |
| 20:06.55 | SpeedEvil | A nokia 1100 will be a _considerably_ better phone right now. |
| 20:07.00 | SpeedEvil | And for some months. |
| 20:07.10 | mmazur | + even when most of the things get done, I'll bet every now and them ppl are gonna come out with new hacks :) |
| 20:07.53 | pivs_ | nice talkin' openmoko with you guys, see you later. |
| 20:07.56 | *** part/#openmoko pivs_ (n=pivs@ppp-71-134-22-183.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 20:07.59 | SpeedEvil | wacve |
| 20:08.17 | SpeedEvil | The backlight turns on and off. |
| 20:08.34 | SpeedEvil | That's actually the big item in terms of running power managment. |
| 20:08.57 | Writchie | btw - the display is very nice and bright |
| 20:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 20:09.10 | SpeedEvil | But that's one of seven kernel power managment interfaces complete. |
| 20:09.16 | SpeedEvil | (see the above page) |
| 20:09.52 | mmazur | To be honest, never ending power tweaking is what I'm counting on. |
| 20:10.01 | SpeedEvil | s/interfaces/options/ |
| 20:10.06 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 20:10.13 | SpeedEvil | There is a sharply finite limit. |
| 20:10.37 | noon | Elrond: what value/paket did you plot? |
| 20:10.37 | SpeedEvil | Once the above seven are done, and the userspace knows how to work them, there is little left to do. |
| 20:11.06 | SpeedEvil | noon: that's a plot of the doppler shift of the satellite. |
| 20:11.27 | SpeedEvil | Or ratehr - the doppler shift that the GPS reciever is set to. |
| 20:12.03 | SpeedEvil | In order to track it |
| 20:12.14 | *** join/#openmoko hfonteboa (i=_@BHE200150060080.res-com.wayinternet.com.br) |
| 20:13.28 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A0BBDF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:14.02 | Elrond | Add some "we-think-it-to-be" somewhere. ;-) |
| 20:14.54 | noon | SpeedEvil: so this is the value Elrond did set the dopplershift to and got the highest signal strengh? |
| 20:15.05 | Elrond | No. |
| 20:15.11 | Elrond | Is from gllin. |
| 20:15.19 | Elrond | I extracted the value from a 20MB strace. |
| 20:20.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ruggedized]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Alternate_colours/materials]] [[Devirginator/it]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Enodev]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Braunschweig]] [[Application_Development_Crash_Course]] |
| 20:26.42 | *** join/#openmoko V0sen[nL]` (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 20:27.39 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Are the .dat's available somewhere? |
| 20:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko Aria_ (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 20:30.51 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I can mail them or msg you a temporary url. |
| 20:31.04 | SpeedEvil | Either works. |
| 20:31.15 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A54F54.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:31.27 | ferric | eek. last phone shipped is up to #2540 |
| 20:33.22 | Elrond | *arg* I need to fix that one webserver. :-( |
| 20:33.32 | SpeedEvil | dcc works too |
| 20:33.46 | Elrond | Hmm, yeah. let's use dcc. |
| 20:34.38 | daMaestro | that's ok; mine shipped, but is going on a tour of the US before I'm allowed to have it: http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0380251715251 |
| 20:34.44 | SpeedEvil | thanks |
| 20:35.11 | daxxar | Where does the image end up after make openmoko-devel-imaeg? |
| 20:35.13 | daxxar | image* |
| 20:35.15 | sagacis | daMaestro: What the heck? Iowa to Colorado? |
| 20:35.26 | daMaestro | sagacis, i know.. it really makes no sense |
| 20:35.44 | sagacis | To Denver? Gotta love the hub-spoke system |
| 20:35.56 | sagacis | You could have driven there and picked it up by now |
| 20:35.58 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A08908.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:36.04 | daMaestro | very much so |
| 20:36.25 | sagacis | And that's after the "Incorrect routing" |
| 20:36.46 | *** join/#openmoko tnt__ (n=tnt@17.129-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 20:36.52 | sagacis | You better not have to pay UPS for this level of 2nd day air |
| 20:37.01 | sagacis | It's like second-try air |
| 20:37.11 | ewanm89_laptop | Anyone know the bitbake where the first initscripts that run on first boot are? |
| 20:37.23 | daMaestro | yeah, i sent a message to open moko requesting that they should ask for a refund |
| 20:37.28 | daMaestro | and give me the money |
| 20:37.36 | arcanericky | daxxar: did you find it yet? In build/tmp/deploy/images |
| 20:37.55 | mellon | Hm, the build seems to try to patch mtd-utils when it doesn't actually need to be patched. |
| 20:37.57 | sagacis | You need to contact UPS directly. |
| 20:38.07 | sagacis | daMaestro: Now it's in your hands. |
| 20:38.32 | daMaestro | oh, ok... i'll contact UPS then |
| 20:38.39 | daxxar | arcanericky: Thanks. :-) |
| 20:39.30 | daxxar | make build-package-qemu fails when patching the package |
| 20:39.36 | daxxar | Hunk #1 FAILED at 482. |
| 20:41.08 | arcanericky | daxxar: Hm. I built qemu just this morning. I'll try again. |
| 20:42.48 | arcanericky | daxxar: Oops. I just rebuilt it using an old repository version. I'm rebuilding now to see what happens - might have to go run an errand while it's going though, so you may not hear back from me for a bit. |
| 20:42.57 | daxxar | Ok |
| 20:43.21 | *** join/#openmoko nop__ (n=nop@p54A0BF7A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:44.24 | arcanericky | daxxar: will be back after while - could be a bit. Updating and building now. I expect I'll get the same error as you. |
| 20:44.26 | noon | Elrond: know you - maybe - know where the dopplershift has to be set? |
| 20:45.35 | SpeedEvil | noon: it's set in a register by gllin - per satellite. |
| 20:45.36 | ferric | daMaestro: what rt # were you? |
| 20:45.45 | daMaestro | 1964 |
| 20:45.48 | ferric | oh pft |
| 20:45.52 | ferric | one of the first. :p |
| 20:46.57 | noon | SpeedEvil: yes I know. but does he not now know which register he has to set for the dopplershift? |
| 20:47.05 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 20:47.16 | SpeedEvil | The fun part is the interaction of all the registers. |
| 20:47.29 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, it's looking at what the included driver does. |
| 20:47.33 | noon | yes, but this is not so easy |
| 20:47.59 | noon | SpeedEvil: I know. I have done some hacking with Elrond |
| 20:48.49 | noon | SpeedEvil: but I'm not uptodate about the latest news |
| 20:48.56 | happycube | i think i'm going to take a crack at a cpufreq driver to get speed control working |
| 20:49.04 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 20:49.06 | happycube | it sounds like we can do 67.5mhz just fine |
| 20:49.10 | SpeedEvil | happycube: hardware or not? |
| 20:49.18 | SpeedEvil | happycube: is that the lowest? |
| 20:49.36 | happycube | the lowest is something like 12.5 but you lose periphs <60mhz |
| 20:49.38 | happycube | at least the lcd |
| 20:49.41 | SpeedEvil | (with a 12M external clock) |
| 20:50.06 | happycube | i pulled up the pdf and found the clock selection table and uboot sets 266 according to that |
| 20:50.23 | happycube | so i'm grafting harald's uboot code and the sa1110 cpufrq driver |
| 20:50.31 | SpeedEvil | happycube: is 12 the absolute minimum - even with tthe other clock? |
| 20:50.40 | SpeedEvil | with a lower clock (which the neo does not have) |
| 20:50.44 | happycube | i'm not sure |
| 20:50.50 | happycube | there's an idle mode which halts the cpu |
| 20:50.57 | happycube | while everything else runs |
| 20:51.10 | happycube | i wanted to go for the easy power saving ;) |
| 20:51.25 | happycube | should be able to drop 1.8v a bit at 66 |
| 20:51.37 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. Do you have hardware? |
| 20:51.42 | happycube | yup! |
| 20:51.46 | happycube | got mine on friday |
| 20:51.49 | *** join/#openmoko nop___ (n=nop@p54A0B522.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:52.01 | SpeedEvil | You've seen the todo list on the powersaving page :) |
| 20:52.09 | happycube | power mgmt annoyed me - i was going to demo it to someone and it was dead |
| 20:52.17 | happycube | thankfully i had a nokia and the bl-4c works ;0 |
| 20:52.21 | Aria | Hehe |
| 20:52.22 | happycube | i saw that |
| 20:52.39 | happycube | 4c is just a thinner 5c |
| 20:52.55 | happycube | ok i'm heading out for a bit - have fun! |
| 20:53.00 | Aria | Ta |
| 20:54.43 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:58.25 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@198.36.194.3) |
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| 21:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-19-114.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 21:16.55 | Elrond | noon - I know the register for doppler. At least for what I believe is doppler. So the idea is to extract the values from a gllin trace and compare them to expected values. And SpeedEvil is doing the latter part now, I hope. |
| 21:17.43 | noon | does nmea/gllin provide the dopplershift? |
| 21:18.04 | Elrond | nmea: No. |
| 21:18.33 | noon | so he looks where the satellite is and calc the doppler? |
| 21:18.41 | Elrond | Right. |
| 21:19.01 | noon | nice math question |
| 21:19.04 | Elrond | He has some orbit data in some astro-soft. |
| 21:19.05 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: preliminary results = :) |
| 21:19.36 | noon | wooo. SpeedEvil what astro-software do you use? |
| 21:19.46 | Elrond | xephem. |
| 21:20.38 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Wee.. |
| 21:22.02 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: http://www.mauve.plus.com/gps.gif |
| 21:22.40 | SpeedEvil | Which is a plot of - thin lines - strace doppler outputs - and the big symbols are computed doppler |
| 21:22.41 | noon | Elrond: xephem is not in debian? is it free? |
| 21:23.45 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: I think -328 * the doppler number is pretty close to the doppler in meters/second (with + being towards you) |
| 21:24.02 | noon | SpeedEvil: the two datasets are really close |
| 21:24.28 | SpeedEvil | Indeed :) |
| 21:25.11 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - You mean the other way round: HH-value = -328 * doppler_in_meter_per_second, right? |
| 21:25.29 | SpeedEvil | Um - yes. |
| 21:25.33 | SpeedEvil | Or HH/-328 |
| 21:26.44 | Elrond | Did you try to plot single PRNs? One of the reasons I only put one PRN per .png was that the whole thing was hard to see otherwise. |
| 21:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko moko-bunny (n=reik@a054242.dsl.fsr.net) |
| 21:27.08 | SpeedEvil | Yes, but that's not really worthwhile - as it may be a false match |
| 21:27.11 | SpeedEvil | IMO |
| 21:27.22 | *** join/#openmoko PMT (n=rich@c-68-39-249-165.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:27.30 | Elrond | "false match"? |
| 21:27.40 | SpeedEvil | Curve fitting by chance. |
| 21:27.53 | Elrond | Ahh, you mean the -328? |
| 21:28.02 | SpeedEvil | All of the three fitting with the same multiplier is a really good indication that it's a real result. |
| 21:28.16 | Elrond | Ahh, yes. |
| 21:29.02 | Elrond | Well, the idea is to use the same -328, but plot things for one PRN, creating three pics. ;-) |
| 21:30.32 | Elrond | BTW: Why the *30 ? |
| 21:31.01 | SpeedEvil | because the gps file has the range-rate numbers 30s apart. |
| 21:31.16 | Elrond | Ahhh. Just found it. :) |
| 21:31.25 | SpeedEvil | Oh - hang on. The doppler numbers were 1s apart? |
| 21:31.35 | arcanericky | daxxar: Hunk failed at 482 also. |
| 21:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko bonan (n=bonan@h129n2fls33o865.telia.com) |
| 21:31.49 | SpeedEvil | Err, no. |
| 21:31.53 | SpeedEvil | Doesn't matter. |
| 21:31.59 | daxxar | arcanericky: Hm, okay |
| 21:33.53 | arcanericky | daxxar: But I don't think I've ever built the 'build-package-qemu' before. Just the 'build-qemu' and 'run-qemu' Try those instead. |
| 21:34.54 | arcanericky | I checked on PSP holster's a while ago, and most are really too large for the neo. Does anyone have other suggestions for carrying the phone on the belt? |
| 21:34.58 | daxxar | Oh, build-qemu. |
| 21:36.12 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host81-159-19-114.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:36.58 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 21:37.52 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: I think _some_ of the error may be local clock drift. |
| 21:40.11 | noon | how exact is the HH clock? |
| 21:40.34 | SpeedEvil | It should be using a VCXO. |
| 21:40.43 | SpeedEvil | So the raw accuracy is probably around 1PPM. |
| 21:41.27 | Vegar | 1 part per million? |
| 21:41.31 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:41.56 | Vegar | I didn't know you could calculate accuracy like that |
| 21:42.10 | Elrond | Vegar - It's typical for clocks. |
| 21:42.31 | Elrond | Vegar - You can read it as: "Goes 1 second wrong after one million seconds". |
| 21:42.59 | Elrond | Or 31 seconds per year. ;) |
| 21:43.07 | Vegar | ah |
| 21:43.12 | Vegar | yes, true |
| 21:43.22 | CM|Vacation | Elrond: Heh, I just typed that into google to see how many seconds it was in a year |
| 21:43.38 | Elrond | CM|Vacation - *G* |
| 21:43.39 | SpeedEvil | 30Ms in a year |
| 21:43.44 | SpeedEvil | on |
| 21:43.47 | SpeedEvil | h |
| 21:44.02 | CM|Vacation | Google says 1 year = 31 556 926 seconds |
| 21:44.18 | Elrond | pi*1e7 ;o) |
| 21:45.35 | CM|Vacation | Bye! I'm off to bed.. :) |
| 21:46.02 | Elrond | 1ppm sounds quite good for VCXO. |
| 21:47.21 | *** join/#openmoko nibbler_de (n=nibbler@as250.net) |
| 21:47.45 | *** join/#openmoko slux (n=slux@host117-231-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:47.50 | SpeedEvil | ballpark. |
| 21:48.01 | SpeedEvil | I wouldn't be shocked at 5ppm |
| 21:48.37 | Elrond | Yeah. |
| 21:48.49 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A095CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:48.52 | Elrond | I'd currently guess at worse. |
| 21:48.58 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-27-228.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 21:50.02 | Elrond | A week ago (or so), I started gllin, let it get a fix (and thus time), then took the neo back indoors to my desktop (where it doesn't get any SV) and after a few hours the time in the NMEA output was quite wrong. |
| 21:50.40 | *** join/#openmoko ZerothCloned (n=tyler@S010600195bd5cfe1.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 21:50.58 | ZerothCloned | hello |
| 21:51.31 | Elrond | Which one the nice side means, that there are even simple things to improve over gllin. ;o) |
| 21:53.19 | Elrond | The RTC in the PMU feels quite stable. |
| 21:53.19 | *** join/#openmoko rushforth (n=rushfort@sifl.rushforthnetworks.com) |
| 21:53.20 | mjr | one would actually also hope that the final proprietary gllin is better, not to imply that the RE isn't a Good Thing |
| 21:53.20 | SpeedEvil | Looking at the line plot "2.dat" using 1:(($0*10)+($2-32000)) with dots, "8.dat" using 1:(($0*40)+($2-320000)) with dots, "26.dat" using 1:(($0*12)+($2-450000)) with dots |
| 21:53.20 | SpeedEvil | there are moderately clear correlations in the way the three traces jump around at least some of the time. |
| 21:53.22 | SpeedEvil | (This is just an approximate fit to get them on the same screen) |
| 21:54.46 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57AD9351.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 21:55.18 | *** join/#openmoko rushforth (n=rushfort@sifl.rushforthnetworks.com) |
| 21:55.58 | Elrond | Huh, strange. |
| 21:56.15 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
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| 22:00.42 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: what were the initial doppler attempts again? |
| 22:02.11 | deconvolution | hi, i just discovered the openmoko stuff and it looks absolutely stunning. 1) if I want to dev apps for this mobile, do I need to buy an advanced mode ? |
| 22:02.11 | aloril | deconvolution: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:02.11 | Elrond | (0, 1, -1, 2, -2, 3, -3, 4, -4) * 105k |
| 22:02.19 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - (0, 1, -1, 2, -2, 3, -3, 4, -4) * 105k |
| 22:04.09 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - So that's (using 328): (0, 1, -1, 2, -2, 3, -3, 4, -4) * 320 m/s |
| 22:04.26 | ZerothCloned | at the moment deconvolution, getting apps into the image is a bit... obscure. BryceLeo is working on a crash course, and I'd suggest first of all checking this page out: "http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile" |
| 22:04.27 | mjr | oh yeah, once more, were someone to send me a gllin without me actually asking anyone to do such a naughty thing, the act would remain strictly confidential |
| 22:04.43 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:05.30 | ZerothCloned | understood mjr |
| 22:06.02 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-221-149.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:06.03 | Elrond | deconvolution - You can develop apps on your desktop, and then run them straight on the device. |
| 22:06.27 | mjr | (my e-mail happens to be mjr@iki.fi were one prone to sending me a message about not having gllin) |
| 22:06.44 | deconvolution | Elrond: that is the way I am looking for. |
| 22:08.13 | Elrond | deconvolution - Don't expect too much CPU power though. It's comparable to a 100MHZ Pentium. |
| 22:08.30 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: that's sane - going up to about 1200m/s, which is about the max of the permitted legal velocity for a GPS to report from, and the satellite velocity. |
| 22:08.53 | SpeedEvil | max sat velocity |
| 22:09.16 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh... 500m/s for the legal limit... adding 500m/s for the sat's speed. Yeah. |
| 22:10.34 | ZerothCloned | does anyone know whats happened with BryceLeo? |
| 22:10.37 | Writchie | ditto |
| 22:10.53 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - All values I've seen so far (for static neos) are in the -220k .. 220k range, which seems to fit fine also. So that's about (+/-)670 m/s for the dopplers, using 328. |
| 22:11.08 | Writchie | ditto |
| 22:12.02 | Writchie | - |
| 22:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko rick1 (n=ricky@ppp-70-244-80-166.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:13.47 | Writchie | i accept mail by accident to wally.ritchie@gmail.com |
| 22:14.05 | Writchie | if it has arm binaries |
| 22:14.20 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A0BE09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:14.33 | noon | *g* |
| 22:14.55 | noon | <-- has a "hello world" arm binary |
| 22:15.32 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 22:15.51 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:16.22 | daMaestro | does anyone know if the gui phone calls have been stabilized any? |
| 22:16.33 | daMaestro | actually.. i'd rather know where the source repo is so i can just read the logs |
| 22:16.41 | daMaestro | (i think it's in svn somewhere) |
| 22:16.43 | SpeedEvil | Real neo owners use AT commands! :) |
| 22:16.59 | daMaestro | yeah yeah, i will be it sounds like; but i would really prefer to work on fixing bugs |
| 22:17.44 | daMaestro | i know the qemu device is in svn; but i'm not sure about the openmoko platform |
| 22:18.05 | daMaestro | i actually hope it's in git (which is something i took from a few days ago and issues with the mokomakefile) |
| 22:18.39 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07F026.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:19.51 | Elrond | It's all in svn. |
| 22:20.29 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:20.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Ruggedized]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] |
| 22:20.55 | daMaestro | blah, well where is the repo, Elrond ? |
| 22:21.02 | Elrond | daMaestro - http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/ |
| 22:21.09 | daMaestro | thanks |
| 22:21.24 | Elrond | daMaestro - That's where the stuff is, that is supposed to run on the neo. |
| 22:21.48 | Elrond | daMaestro - IF you want to compile for the neo, try MokoMakefile and get a fast box. ;-) |
| 22:22.15 | daMaestro | meh, yeah... i'll be packaging up openembedded and all of the needed tools to build openmoko for fedora here soon |
| 22:22.20 | daMaestro | as soon as i actually get my device |
| 22:22.32 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 22:22.42 | daMaestro | i've got the qemu device all packaged up; but just can't justify the time when i don't have have a device to build for |
| 22:23.04 | Elrond | hehe, yeah. |
| 22:23.31 | Elrond | I started to use MokoMakefile just about two weeks after getting the device. ;) |
| 22:24.11 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Can you post on sphyrna-devel, what we found out? |
| 22:24.18 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: K |
| 22:24.25 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Some 1/2 hour |
| 22:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko Min46770 (n=10373019@IGLD-84-229-83-227.inter.net.il) |
| 22:24.46 | Min46770 | wow! Free calls - http://callfree.point-serv.com/en |
| 22:25.12 | *** part/#openmoko Min46770 (n=10373019@IGLD-84-229-83-227.inter.net.il) |
| 22:25.20 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - No panic. I think, we just should inform the other people / have some docs until someone gets to the point of adding the info to the wiki. :-) |
| 22:26.11 | Elrond | Hmm, sirf binary doesn't seem to have dopplers in it. :-| |
| 22:26.14 | *** join/#openmoko codyl|zZZzz (n=codyl@adsl-71-142-91-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:26.23 | daMaestro | lol.. fsking spammers |
| 22:27.15 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: does it have psuedorange? |
| 22:27.26 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I think, it has. |
| 22:27.34 | *** join/#openmoko IR2 (n=rmoreira@87-196-127-212.net.novis.pt) |
| 22:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0BBC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:27.44 | noon | SpeedEvil: i think. but i'm going to checkit now |
| 22:27.47 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: The easy way would be for me to generate a months or so data for your position. |
| 22:27.58 | SpeedEvil | If that's why you're looking for it. |
| 22:28.47 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, I'm looking for it, to create very (time wise) closely locked doppler data. |
| 22:29.14 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.114.20) |
| 22:29.27 | codyl|zZZzz | Shipping is going to continue next week I hope? |
| 22:33.02 | noon | Elrond: sirf3 message id 28 |
| 22:33.27 | noon | Elrond: there is Pseudorange, Carrier Frequency |
| 22:34.12 | SpeedEvil | And doppler is psuedorange change/second - modulo local clock errors. |
| 22:34.55 | noon | SpeedEvil: it should give use the carrier freq. |
| 22:35.05 | *** join/#openmoko nop__ (n=nop@p54A0AC0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:35.22 | noon | this must be base feq +- dopplershift |
| 22:36.08 | noon | Elrond: I think my receiver will give use the message |
| 22:37.31 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:37.52 | Elrond | noon - We can try next sunday :-) |
| 22:38.52 | noon | Elrond: sunday? |
| 22:38.53 | *** join/#openmoko mellon (n=mellon@dsl081-227-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:39.08 | Elrond | noon - I have an apointment on saturday. ;) |
| 22:39.28 | noon | Elrond: woo ;o) |
| 22:39.43 | Elrond | Anyway. |
| 22:40.11 | noon | bye |
| 22:42.42 | Elrond | Good night people. :) |
| 22:43.10 | *** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 22:43.51 | cesarb | I don't know if alloril's script has already mentioned this message, but take a look at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-July/000133.html |
| 22:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A08319.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:58.46 | *** part/#openmoko IR2 (n=rmoreira@87-196-127-212.net.novis.pt) |
| 23:00.11 | ZerothCloned | hey BryceLeo, done your thinking? |
| 23:01.59 | daMaestro | cesarb, yeah.. that is why i've been not *so* upset that UPS gave my phone a tour of the US |
| 23:02.01 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: mail away. |
| 23:02.10 | daMaestro | cesarb, it's just like... oh; maybe someone else will fix it first |
| 23:02.11 | daMaestro | lol |
| 23:02.34 | SpeedEvil | np: Bob the coder - Can he fix it? |
| 23:03.24 | ZerothCloned | Yes he can! |
| 23:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko dando- (n=dando_@L0a2a.l.pppool.de) |
| 23:15.34 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: sort of, i'm munching on the rest of dinner and going over what i've got so far |
| 23:17.12 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
| 23:17.37 | BryceLeo | ZerothCloned: you getting the PM's |
| 23:25.14 | *** join/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12F0C0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:28.43 | *** join/#openmoko Vndmtrx (n=0x0fff@unaffiliated/vndmtrx) |
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| 23:33.21 | *** part/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12F0C0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:36.54 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:37.06 | don-o | any news about production runs? eg. has the first run been soldout and when is the next run? |
| 23:38.16 | *** join/#openmoko khaije1 (n=khaije1@unaffiliated/khaije1) |
| 23:39.28 | SpeedEvil | Nothing explicit. |
| 23:39.46 | ZerothCloned | ooh... explicit hardware news... *drools* |
| 23:40.28 | cjb_ie | can we get, like, photos with the case taken off? |
| 23:40.46 | SpeedEvil | I want pictures of the inside of the front of the case! |
| 23:41.21 | cjb_ie | what, you mean like full frontal type stuff? |
| 23:41.42 | ZerothCloned | what would the Neo's mom say? |
| 23:42.30 | BryceLeo | lmfao |
| 23:42.44 | BryceLeo | there should be a wiki hall of fame quotes |
| 23:43.18 | ZerothCloned | or just post to bash? |
| 23:43.41 | *** join/#openmoko Taco (n=rtm@pool-151-199-47-90.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:43.43 | BryceLeo | hmmmm... that could work too but bash has one hell of a backlog |
| 23:45.22 | Taco | Hi, Is it the general consensus that AT&T SIM cards will not work in a new1973, or has someone gotten one to work? |
| 23:45.22 | aloril | Taco: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 23:46.24 | ZerothCloned | I don't know, but knowing At&T(and their penchant for monopolys) they likely use custom sim cards |
| 23:47.07 | ZerothCloned | and it seems to only be the latest ones @Taco |
| 23:47.12 | BryceLeo | Taco: i have no doubts that the devs will get the sims working |
| 23:47.23 | Taco | Thanks - is it known for certain that generic T-Mobile SIMs work? |
| 23:47.59 | bradpitcher | I made a call with my t-mobile sim, the sound was messed up, but I the modem seemed to be working |
| 23:48.37 | bradpitcher | to clarify: I could here voices from the other end, but there was a high pitch sound over the top throughout the call |
| 23:48.49 | rushforth | Taco: my phone works great with a t-mobile sim, and refuses w/ any cingular/att sim |
| 23:49.09 | Taco | Thanks - I guess I'll need to switch providers." |
| 23:49.11 | rushforth | sound quality was great for me |
| 23:49.19 | BryceLeo | rushforth: that should be just a drive issue that will get sorted out |
| 23:49.27 | rushforth | but unfortunately gsmd is not stable yet |
| 23:50.06 | rushforth | driver issue you mean? |
| 23:50.16 | rushforth | i hope its not he sim card reader.. the pin-outs on the cingular sim are slightly different.. |
| 23:50.38 | rushforth | as in.. the t-mobile sim has more segregation between the contacts, the cingular has one area that is solid (no segregation) |
| 23:52.00 | BryceLeo | rushforth: shouldn't matter too much the interface is standard |
| 23:52.14 | rushforth | BryceLeo: We hope :) |
| 23:52.22 | BryceLeo | rushforth: haha i'll give you that one |
| 23:54.15 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0A714.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:54.22 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 23:54.22 | BryceLeo | rushforth: if you can use that AT&T sim in a t-mobile phone then it's just a driver issue, if not then... well we'll see what we can fix |
| 23:55.41 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@ool-18b9456b.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:56.07 | rushforth | BryceLeo: I can use the t-mobile sim in either phone. I can only use the att sim in the att phone. |
| 23:56.49 | Taco | But there does at least seem to be a general consensus that AT&T cards don't currently work in a neo1973. I had been worried there might have been a hardware problem with my phone. |
| 23:56.54 | daMaestro | has anyone been able to use att with the neo? |
| 23:57.10 | daMaestro | oh noes, i was looking at att over tmobile |
| 23:57.10 | rushforth | daMaestro: good question |
| 23:57.11 | BryceLeo | can anyone use an ATT sim with a TMobile, or other carrier phone? |
| 23:57.13 | BryceLeo | that's the big question |
| 23:57.19 | BryceLeo | if you can then OM will be able to for sure |
| 23:57.27 | rushforth | agreed |
| 23:58.01 | daMaestro | could we be at the 5v vs 3.3v issue? |
| 23:58.11 | BryceLeo | daMaestro: i believe that we are |
| 23:58.39 | roh | the chipset handles 3 and 1.8V sims. no 5V ones. |
| 23:58.40 | BryceLeo | daMaestro: it should be fixable though, i'd even imagine that firmware might be able to fix that |
| 23:58.54 | roh | i know of no current phones which can provide 5V |
| 23:59.15 | roh | last one from siemens was the S25 from about 5 years ago or so |
| 23:59.16 | BryceLeo | roh: ohh well that's a problem |
| 23:59.27 | BryceLeo | roh: you have any ideas about the ATT sims |
| 23:59.49 | mellon | why would you prefer AT&T over t-mobile? t-mobile is much more reasonable. |
| 23:59.51 | roh | BryceLeo there seems to be a problem, but i do not know details yet. |
| 23:59.53 | rushforth | I also wonder if anyone has tried the older 32k att/cingular sims.. |
| 23:59.58 | *** part/#openmoko bradpitcher (n=bradpitc@c-71-236-214-109.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
