| 00:00.09 | arcanericky | Today's release finally loaded. 'scuse me while I play a bit. |
| 00:00.24 | BasiC | but first i want to learn a little bit assembler to understand more about cpus/binaries/libaries/... |
| 00:00.28 | nibbler_de | XXLT: sure, why not? ;) |
| 00:00.50 | anrp | says the guy named BASIC D: |
| 00:01.01 | XXLT | yeah, actually i wanted to ask if somebody already did |
| 00:01.37 | dando- | arm architecture ! |
| 00:01.46 | dando- | it is a little endian maschine? |
| 00:02.27 | BasiC | anrp: lol |
| 00:04.12 | dando- | those old floppys where 720 * 2^10 Byte |
| 00:04.30 | dando- | that changed with 1,44 MB |
| 00:04.33 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A0AA28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:04.40 | dando- | didnt it ? |
| 00:06.05 | bug_ | just remember 644 blocks free (c64 5 1/4" ) |
| 00:07.16 | BasiC | yay wine devs just fixed my alsa bugs |
| 00:07.21 | happycube | woot |
| 00:07.36 | happycube | odd question - does shadowfb help the xserver performance on the phone? |
| 00:08.06 | anrp | a definite maybe! |
| 00:08.06 | dando- | 644 blocks |
| 00:08.22 | dando- | holy shit |
| 00:08.28 | happycube | ? |
| 00:09.24 | BasiC | yeah war3 runs on wine .. and starcraft wooho |
| 00:10.10 | BasiC | will it be just possible to start applications like this on the phone |
| 00:10.21 | BasiC | it doesnt make sense, but is it possible xD? |
| 00:10.34 | mjr | it's not x86 |
| 00:10.41 | BasiC | oh well .. yeah |
| 00:10.52 | BasiC | emulate it ! |
| 00:10.54 | mjr | I suppose you could try and run wine in qemu, but... the sanity |
| 00:10.56 | BasiC | .. no im just kidding |
| 00:11.04 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=familia@201.244.108.185) |
| 00:11.16 | dando- | develop your own games |
| 00:11.17 | anrp | you could |
| 00:11.29 | anrp | i've run winzip with qemu+wine on a linux ppc box |
| 00:11.34 | anrp | so no reason arm wouldn't work |
| 00:11.40 | mjr | *nod* |
| 00:11.42 | dando- | games that make fun to play on a 640x480 |
| 00:11.53 | anrp | dosemu might have reasonable performance |
| 00:11.55 | anrp | hard to say |
| 00:12.21 | dando- | dosemu is no problem i would say |
| 00:12.40 | anrp | er.. dosemu is x86 dependant |
| 00:13.02 | mjr | dosemu does some funky vm stuff qemu might have trouble with... then again, so does wine, so... |
| 00:13.23 | anrp | stacked emulators is probably a certifiably bad idea |
| 00:13.28 | mjr | now, dos_box_ would work. Performance? Naah... |
| 00:13.48 | mjr | well, neither dosemu nor wine are really emulators |
| 00:13.49 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.79.146.16) |
| 00:14.06 | anrp | true enough |
| 00:14.16 | mjr | dosemu is a (limited) vm and wine is a winapi implementation and program loader |
| 00:14.21 | anrp | what if you wanted to run darwine though D; |
| 00:17.16 | mjr | wasn't that just coupled wine + qemu? |
| 00:17.59 | mjr | plus some generic porting stuff |
| 00:18.06 | mjr | and the qemu part is getting obsolete fast |
| 00:18.36 | mjr | anyway, this is all silly |
| 00:18.47 | mjr | what we _really_ want running on the neo is VICE |
| 00:18.49 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[Hammerhead/Integrators]] [[User:Writchie]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Pudelfish]] |
| 00:19.08 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.24 | *** join/#openmoko guest__ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 00:20.01 | mjr | (UPS estimates I'll have my phone on Monday - what, no express weekend delivery?) |
| 00:20.36 | Vndmtrx[Compondo | It's dificult to ship a Neo1974 to brazil ?? |
| 00:21.09 | mjr | yes, considering such a device doesn't exist ;] |
| 00:21.14 | phrozen77 | meh |
| 00:21.19 | phrozen77 | mjr, beat me to it |
| 00:21.29 | mjr | phrozen77, :D |
| 00:21.40 | dando- | neo1973 |
| 00:21.48 | mjr | there appear to be no shipping notes on Brazil |
| 00:21.55 | anrp | i got mine today D: |
| 00:22.03 | anrp | course, it doesn't work |
| 00:22.04 | Vndmtrx[Compondo | HAUahuahuaha |
| 00:22.05 | anrp | :F |
| 00:22.15 | mjr | I guess it depends if the brazilian customs are hell-bent on preventing merely fcc and ce -certified cell phones from entering the country |
| 00:22.31 | mjr | like the russians are |
| 00:22.41 | guaqua | they are hell-bent |
| 00:23.04 | guaqua | but the issue is money |
| 00:23.09 | Vndmtrx[Compondo | We are ?? I don't know ... |
| 00:23.17 | arcanericky | Woo-freakin'-Hoo! Got my first gtk app running on my neo! |
| 00:23.40 | dando- | cool |
| 00:23.53 | mjr | Vndmtrx[Compondo, anyway, you should ask your customs. Because FIC will certainly UPS it there if it can be received... |
| 00:24.13 | arcanericky | It's a really really simple countdown timer application so I can time the brewing of my french press coffee at work. |
| 00:24.47 | dando- | ;) |
| 00:24.54 | dando- | nice app. |
| 00:25.16 | Vndmtrx[Compondo | mjr, thanks ... |
| 00:25.25 | Vndmtrx[Compondo | And sorry for my bad english hehehe |
| 00:25.59 | mjr | we've seen worse ;] |
| 00:27.12 | arcanericky | Now I have to figure out how to create a menu entry so I don't have to start it by running it from the command line... |
| 00:27.45 | arcanericky | If anyone has suggestions on how to get it into the menu in the upper left, I'm listening. |
| 00:28.59 | dando- | but its crazy. 24 h of debugging, development and discussion here. its 2:30 am here in europe. |
| 00:30.35 | dando- | world brain. |
| 00:30.53 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (i=matteo@147.162.137.9) |
| 00:31.56 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 00:32.14 | dando- | i go to sleep |
| 00:32.20 | dando- | cu all |
| 00:34.34 | arcanericky | I can get it into openmoko-mainmenu. Just want to get it into the dropdown menu now. |
| 00:34.41 | khaije1 | oh! that reminds me, i'm going to add this to the wiki but a 802.11b/g-based near-field communication called amigo, pretty neat tech, and would be *perfect* on a neo, |
| 00:34.41 | khaije1 | http://video.google.com/url?docid=-7600056998960496674&esrc=sr1&ev=v&q=amigo%2Btech%2Btalks&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-7600056998960496674&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-7600056998960496674%26q%3Damigo%2Btech%2Btalks%26total%3D6%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H23vsL--Udy5ecfwcCjNJrUD8KYRow |
| 00:35.04 | khaije1 | hmm didn't realize that would be so huge |
| 00:36.20 | *** join/#openmoko greentux__ (n=lemke@Z7acf.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:39.02 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 00:39.12 | khaije1 | when i said near-field communication i meant to say near-field authentication (oops!) |
| 00:41.56 | cesarb | Vndmtrx: cool, another brazilian |
| 00:42.05 | *** join/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12F2EE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:42.08 | Vndmtrx | cesarb, :) |
| 00:42.13 | cesarb | Vndmtrx: (and another brazilian who has no clue if it will be easy to pass customs too :D ) |
| 00:42.34 | SpeedEvil | Near-field!=wifi/bluetooth |
| 00:42.39 | SpeedEvil | it needs extra hardware. |
| 00:42.58 | SpeedEvil | It certainly won't be present in P2. |
| 00:43.15 | SpeedEvil | It's already in the hardware wishlist anyway. |
| 00:43.45 | SpeedEvil | IIRC the use-cases there don't emphasise it for pairing/auth. |
| 00:44.13 | Vndmtrx | cesarb, from where do you ?? Sao Paulo ?? |
| 00:44.23 | cesarb | Vndmtrx: rio |
| 00:44.40 | Vndmtrx | I'm from Palmas, Tocantins ... |
| 00:45.11 | cesarb | Vndmtrx: NiterĂ³i, Rio de Janeiro here |
| 00:45.21 | Vndmtrx | :) |
| 00:48.13 | Vndmtrx | cesarb, When I discover this smartphone (sorry for the 1974 mjr hehe), I'm decided to change my treo 600 ... I was fascinated when I see the OpenMoko runing on qemu ... |
| 00:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (i=matteo@147.162.137.9) |
| 00:51.13 | cesarb | Vndmtrx: do not be too anxious, currently it doesn't do much more than dialing... the software has yet to be written |
| 00:51.30 | cesarb | Vndmtrx: (most people in this channel are interested in writing the software themselves) |
| 00:51.33 | *** part/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12F2EE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:51.37 | SpeedEvil | and dialling is often broken |
| 00:51.46 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: not if you use the command line ;-) |
| 00:53.07 | Vndmtrx | cesarb, Yes, i know ... But, my interest is develop apps ... |
| 00:53.53 | SpeedEvil | What are you interested in? |
| 00:53.55 | Vndmtrx | In all case, i'll try to install the python interpreter on it ... |
| 00:54.29 | cesarb | Vndmtrx: there is a difference between "develop apps" and "develop the basic phone software"; if you want to develop apps, it's better to wait a bit more until the basic phone software works |
| 00:54.49 | SpeedEvil | What apps? |
| 00:55.07 | SpeedEvil | You can do 99% of app-development simply in X+GTK |
| 00:55.12 | SpeedEvil | Without emulation or anything |
| 00:55.28 | daMaestro | Xoo++ |
| 00:55.59 | Vndmtrx | cesarb, are you cesar brod ?? |
| 00:56.02 | daMaestro | hmm... looks like it's in rawhide, but not <f8 |
| 00:56.08 | cesarb | Vndmtrx: no |
| 00:56.12 | Vndmtrx | Humm |
| 01:03.56 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=eric@67.55.26.36) |
| 01:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@cl-241.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net) |
| 01:22.36 | arcanericky | Sigh. Anyone know how to get an app to show up in the matchbox menu? |
| 01:24.03 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: amigo is near-field authentication using standard 802.11 eqpt |
| 01:24.35 | zecke | antenagora: creating a .desktop (see freedesktop.org) and putting it somewhere? |
| 01:25.35 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, that's fundamentally impossible. Simply winding down the power does not make it near field. |
| 01:25.56 | SpeedEvil | It being magnetic or electric in nature, rather than electromagnetic does. |
| 01:26.05 | SpeedEvil | This is determined solely by the antenna. |
| 01:26.33 | SpeedEvil | The big advantage of near field is that it decays at 1/r^4 - not 1/r^6 |
| 01:26.43 | SpeedEvil | The big advantage of near field is that it decays at 1/r^4 - not 1/r^2 |
| 01:26.52 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: you're thinking of nearfield communications in general, but this application is only for authentication, once authenticated it uses 802.11 for communication, but since it is properly authenticated this is functionaly identical |
| 01:27.39 | SpeedEvil | So it's not nearfield using standard 802.11* then, you need extra hardware. |
| 01:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko telconta1 (n=adam@dsl081-165-219.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:30.44 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: to summarize the technology uses the localy specific attributes of background radio signals as a basis for proving local-ness, this is then incorporated into the handshake in combination with asym crypto |
| 01:33.08 | SpeedEvil | So it's implemented using a chipset that supports more than simple 802.11 - as standard current chips won't do this? |
| 01:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:36.13 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: as long as the chip supports monitor mode, it will be capable of listening enough to generate suitably locationaly specific fingerprint, proximity is determined on a sliding scale (generally below 75% rejected) based on similarity between two RF fingerprints |
| 01:38.01 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: i may not be explaining it well, and it's not perfect, but i think it's ideal for the neo, because it greatly expands functionality w/o add'l hw cost |
| 01:39.29 | SpeedEvil | That sounds relatively simply jammable, with a large enough dish, or lens, in close proximity. Beam radio waves at the thing you want to pair with, so that it's different from what the user thinks they are pairing with, and lie about your own environment. |
| 01:39.31 | khaije1 | there is a nice video lecture here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7600056998960496674) by a project lead |
| 01:39.49 | SpeedEvil | How large? |
| 01:40.06 | khaije1 | um i think it's like 45 mins on google video |
| 01:40.26 | SpeedEvil | Is there a website? |
| 01:40.55 | SpeedEvil | Near field is nice in that they physics makes it really quite hard to jam. |
| 01:41.12 | SpeedEvil | s/jam/intercept/ |
| 01:42.26 | khaije1 | not sure about a website... near-field is perhaps a misnomer, it may be more accurate to say proximity, though functionally similar |
| 01:42.40 | *** join/#openmoko ashnazg (n=chuckles@adsl-61-152-21.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:43.18 | mjr | yes, sounds like it's an attempt at achieving similar goals to near-field comms |
| 01:43.22 | mjr | but not really near-field |
| 01:43.41 | SpeedEvil | It's really not. With near field - with 5cm antennas, at 1m, the signal strength will be down by a factor of 160000 |
| 01:44.35 | SpeedEvil | With wifi, each side is going to be trivially recievable at moderate distances using a modest dish. |
| 01:45.22 | SpeedEvil | And transmittable. |
| 01:45.25 | khaije1 | jamming would be difficult since rf variability is high based on location, and the fingerprint is based on listening, of course if 802.11 is jammed then opening a connection using that info would be infeasible anyway |
| 01:46.17 | SpeedEvil | RF variability is only high based on location if one side hasn't been to the point where the pairing is taking place before, and is lying. |
| 01:46.28 | khaije1 | it's a totally different tech than near-field, but does work reliably to prove proximity, and is all sw |
| 01:46.32 | SpeedEvil | And also it's a lot less variable if it's a quiet environment. |
| 01:47.32 | SpeedEvil | It works reliably to disprove distance in non-hostile environments. Proving proximity isn't quite the same thing. |
| 01:47.59 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: thats true if it's quiet, but because it generates the fingerprint on instantaneous data from multiple attributes of background noise it's difficult to forge |
| 01:48.34 | SpeedEvil | Not if you can control the background noise. |
| 01:49.04 | SpeedEvil | Quiet environment, and a large dish pointed at the thing you want to pair with. |
| 01:49.27 | khaije1 | it's used to prove that of the devices that you are trying to auth there isn't a mitm, or a more distant attacker |
| 01:50.19 | SpeedEvil | I know. I don't think it can relaibly do that against a skilled attacker with a few hundred or a thousand in resources, and a RF lab to play in. |
| 01:50.57 | SpeedEvil | A generalised attack 'in the wild' would be harder, but consider the cellphone/tunnel analogy. |
| 01:51.21 | SpeedEvil | You can sit outside tunnels and snoop as phones come back onto the net all at a nice convenient location. |
| 01:51.56 | SpeedEvil | Is this method patented? |
| 01:52.57 | khaije1 | controlling an rf environment, and mapping every point in a controlled environment could hypothetically be used to defeat it, (though the simplest way is to simply have a *closer* hidden antenna), the attack you described also relies on motionless devices |
| 01:53.31 | khaije1 | since 3d movement would complication prediction attempts, particularly if the devices were held next to each other and moved |
| 01:54.05 | khaije1 | iirc it's gpl, which is a huge feature |
| 01:54.06 | SpeedEvil | I also don't believe the RF environment can be simply mapped in that manner. |
| 01:54.30 | SpeedEvil | Even by the devices, as they can only recieve noise, and packets. |
| 01:54.42 | SpeedEvil | anything else just isn't passed down to a low level. |
| 01:55.33 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: i don't know enough about the rf reception capabilities of 802.11 eqpt, which makes me less effective at proving or refuting, since it relies intrinsicly on their properties |
| 01:55.49 | SpeedEvil | They vary. |
| 01:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko Kuin_ (n=sas@201.212.127.167) |
| 01:56.01 | SpeedEvil | Basically, you don't get access to the raw hardware. |
| 01:56.23 | SpeedEvil | The microcontroller in the wifi equipment collects packets, and statistics, and passes them back to you. |
| 01:56.37 | khaije1 | i'm not proposing it as a replacement for near-field(tm) only as a workable proximity-auth extention for 802.11 |
| 01:57.20 | khaije1 | the fingerprint algo is based on a combination of the to as well as numerous wave properties |
| 01:57.22 | SpeedEvil | It's plausible for low-security stuff. |
| 01:57.33 | SpeedEvil | You can't measure the wave properties. |
| 01:57.39 | SpeedEvil | the modem doesn't give them to you. |
| 01:57.53 | khaije1 | the lecture seems to suggest otherwise |
| 01:58.02 | SpeedEvil | It gives you the packet, its strength, and if htere were errors, and the background noise. |
| 01:58.39 | SpeedEvil | I'll probably download it sometime when my connection is feeling better. |
| 01:59.10 | SpeedEvil | Sounds interesting - I wouldn't trust it for financial things though. |
| 01:59.16 | SpeedEvil | We've delivered product! |
| 01:59.27 | SpeedEvil | Ok - the product sucks for users - but... |
| 01:59.32 | SpeedEvil | And there isn't much of it. |
| 01:59.44 | hads | mwester: Are you here for a reason or just to troll? |
| 02:00.05 | mwester | *SOME* product has been delivered, SpeedEvil. |
| 02:00.32 | mwester | blend what? |
| 02:00.36 | SpeedEvil | Yes - I know - 100-200 phones or not. |
| 02:00.38 | hads | heh |
| 02:00.47 | SpeedEvil | or so. |
| 02:00.55 | hads | Will he blend |
| 02:01.21 | mwester | speak English. |
| 02:01.32 | SpeedEvil | google 'will it blend'. |
| 02:01.51 | khaije1 | i think it could have many immediate practical aplications for defeating 'big-ass-antenna-from-a-distance' attacks on the cheap |
| 02:01.56 | mwester | No, if someone doesn't wish to speak English, I'll not bother to listen to them@ |
| 02:02.08 | khaije1 | and maybe more |
| 02:02.08 | hads | Goodbye. |
| 02:02.50 | mwester | I'm just catching up, and was hoping to find product on my doorstep after a week out of town. Very disappointing to have been such a vocal advocate of this product, to find disappointment after dissapointment. |
| 02:03.01 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 02:03.02 | mwester | Sorry, hads, if expression one's frustration bothers you. |
| 02:03.08 | SpeedEvil | It's very annoying. |
| 02:03.59 | telconta1 | hehe next we'll be crying about whether it will make phone calls regularly or not...it will be a rough few months |
| 02:04.12 | telconta1 | but it goes with the territory |
| 02:04.17 | SpeedEvil | Personally. |
| 02:04.24 | SpeedEvil | I'm not so interested in phone calls. |
| 02:04.29 | mwester | Well, some might. I had hoped to be on the P0 list and working with the product long before it made phone calls. |
| 02:04.53 | SpeedEvil | My mobiles have tended to die with expired credit due to non-use for calls. |
| 02:05.00 | mwester | I can make phone calls on any of a number of other devices; I can't do the things I with to with anything other than the Neo :) |
| 02:05.12 | SpeedEvil | Delays have been so annoyingly ongoing. |
| 02:05.16 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:05.16 | arcanericky | Hey mwester, I got my neo today! :) |
| 02:05.29 | SpeedEvil | And we still haven't had confirmation of the next batch. |
| 02:05.37 | telconta1 | its got a lot of possibilities but without a phone its just a n800 with less screen rez :) |
| 02:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 02:06.09 | SpeedEvil | telconta1: GPS |
| 02:06.15 | khaije1 | arcanericky: you're talking about a gta01? |
| 02:06.41 | mwester | 3296 |
| 02:06.46 | arcanericky | Yep! Already hacked my first app for it! |
| 02:07.03 | mwester | Where are we on the list, anyone been keeping track? |
| 02:07.16 | khaije1 | sweet! i'm brushing up on my python for that occasion myself (though waiting for gta02/3) |
| 02:07.16 | arcanericky | I was #2353 or something or other. |
| 02:07.40 | mwester | Ouch. I probably won't make the next batch then -- they only made 1000, right? |
| 02:07.40 | SpeedEvil | I think 2450 or so is the top. |
| 02:07.50 | SpeedEvil | it started at 1820 |
| 02:07.54 | telconta1 | bleh |
| 02:07.59 | SpeedEvil | possibly :/ |
| 02:08.06 | telconta1 | 2005 but i ordered an orange :| |
| 02:08.53 | mwester | Ok. Well, nothing to do about it. But I've kind of run out of what I can do with the simulator for the moment, so I'll have to find some other project for it. |
| 02:09.04 | arcanericky | Who ported python? It's not on the file system I just loaded (I'll have to check again) |
| 02:10.00 | khaije1 | afaik it's scheduled for gta02 |
| 02:10.00 | mwester | hads: I'll return you to whatever lurking you wish to do, or jump on folks here, whatever it is that you enjoy! |
| 02:10.04 | Jason1 | arcanericky: What app did you get running? |
| 02:10.31 | Leftmost | Hmm. I'm not totally clear on how package management will work on the phone. On the emulator it looks kind of like synaptic, but the [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] article doesn't seem to mention anything about specifying package dependencies and I'm not clear on whether it'd be possible to download packages from somewhere and install them. Anyone know where I can find that sort of info? |
| 02:10.31 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-69-48.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 02:10.53 | arcanericky | A stupid little countdown timer app I plan to use for timing the brewing of my french press coffee on Monday |
| 02:11.15 | mwester | Good question. I assumed it was going to be ipkg, but that was just an assumption. |
| 02:11.28 | Jason1 | arcanericky: lol. thats an intersting choice |
| 02:11.41 | arcanericky | Hey - I gotta be motivated somehow! :) |
| 02:12.08 | Jason1 | hehe |
| 02:12.42 | arcanericky | And the input of coffee / caffeine definitely motivates me! |
| 02:13.46 | zecke | madewokherd: just install the bindings? |
| 02:14.04 | madewokherd | the what? |
| 02:14.19 | madewokherd | I don't know what you're talking about |
| 02:14.22 | zecke | madewokherd: python runtime + openmoko bindings? |
| 02:14.31 | madewokherd | I'm just a vaguely interested lurker |
| 02:14.37 | madewokherd | not someone who actually knows something |
| 02:14.50 | zecke | madewokherd: then don't spam the wiki for stuff already available? ;) |
| 02:15.02 | madewokherd | wiki? |
| 02:15.56 | Leftmost | Sort of what I'm thinking here is this: I'm working on a dictionary application that will most likely require sqlite. I would both like to be able to package the application and make it available for download and make sure that it can specify a dependency on sqlite. (Additionally, sqlite should at least be a package in the tree that can be made available for installation, though it'd probably be too much to install by def |
| 02:15.56 | Leftmost | ault. I'm not even sure at this point that there are packages one can install that aren't already installed.) |
| 02:16.59 | madewokherd | I don't know anything about what you're talking about so back to lurking |
| 02:17.02 | SpeedEvil | Ideally. |
| 02:17.20 | SpeedEvil | We _really_ want it all to fit in the 128M of NAND flash - for core apps. |
| 02:17.43 | SpeedEvil | If it doesn't, then the user can't easily swap the SD. |
| 02:17.59 | Writchie | i really hope we do better than a 1Gb NAND |
| 02:18.16 | SpeedEvil | Unlikely. |
| 02:18.46 | Writchie | i really like the phone |
| 02:18.50 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: are you a core dev? |
| 02:18.54 | SpeedEvil | n |
| 02:18.55 | SpeedEvil | o |
| 02:19.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Canberra]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] |
| 02:19.15 | Leftmost | SpeedEvil, that's perfectly understandable and I'm not saying sqlite should be part of the core apps. I'm just saying it should be possible for a user to select and install additional packages and that a list of packages should be made available. |
| 02:19.21 | khaije1 | oic, you seem knowledgeable about the design details |
| 02:20.02 | SpeedEvil | lurking on ML,IRC, understanding of electronics involved, reading every page on the wiki. |
| 02:20.22 | SpeedEvil | And trying to bring some sanity to it. |
| 02:20.23 | telconta1 | i thought sqlite was in already...its only 200k if not |
| 02:20.40 | telconta1 | and prob the most useful 200k evar :) |
| 02:21.11 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-8-112-169.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:21.13 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54881C63.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:21.24 | Writchie | anybody know how long DFU takes to download rootfs? |
| 02:21.57 | arcanericky | A few minutes to download. I seems like it took five or so. Be patient. |
| 02:22.45 | Leftmost | It just seems like, to make the platform developer-friendly, it will have to have some sort of dependency-managing package management and a list of installable libraries and software that aren't part of the core applications. |
| 02:23.37 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:26.07 | *** join/#openmoko ChooseOpen (n=jelwell@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.54 | zecke | Leftmost: ipkg can track dependencies, it has 'feeds' so can install software from other places |
| 02:28.31 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: i was just thinking about what you said about not trusting amigo, i think it might be better described as a way of verifying a pubkey exchange session isn't snooped or highjacked, based on the condition of co-locality |
| 02:28.32 | zecke | Leftmost: write a BitBake file for your package and then it will be installable and if we decide to switch to rpm, deb, ... it will just keep working |
| 02:30.00 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 02:31.12 | Leftmost | Hmm. I guess the problem is that I can't find any information on specifying dependencies in bitbake. Thanks for the clarification on that though, zecke. |
| 02:31.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring |
| 02:31.29 | zecke | Leftmost: if you link against libraries it will just work |
| 02:31.58 | zecke | Leftmost: it will do objdump on your installied binaries, look at SO_NEEDED, check which packages provide this library and add RDEPENDS |
| 02:32.30 | Leftmost | Ahh, alright. |
| 02:34.24 | orzo | the order/shipping process seems to be going rather chaoticly |
| 02:35.25 | ChooseOpen | orzo: YOu just realized that :) |
| 02:36.38 | orzo | well is there some explanation |
| 02:36.39 | orzo | heh |
| 02:37.21 | ChooseOpen | orzo: Basically it is generally accepted that FIC is not used to business-to-consumer sales. We are seeing all the rough edges... |
| 02:38.30 | orzo | not really an explanation |
| 02:38.37 | orzo | heh |
| 02:38.58 | ChooseOpen | orzo: yeah, hopefully once the smoke clears, FIC will enlighten us as to what all the problems were. |
| 02:39.12 | ChooseOpen | orzo: Better us than the end users... |
| 02:40.04 | SpeedEvil | The root cause is that they tried to set up a nice general customer site for FIC, that could deal with large volumes. |
| 02:40.09 | SpeedEvil | And it fell over. |
| 02:40.09 | orzo | i recall an email saying there were 500 in the states and that another 500 was clearing customs |
| 02:40.10 | telconta1 | meh when you hear them having to write an webapp to take orders...i didn't expect much good to come of that |
| 02:40.17 | SpeedEvil | So a replacement was hacked up in a few hours. |
| 02:40.17 | orzo | has that other 500 made it through yet? |
| 02:40.26 | SpeedEvil | orzo: not been reported. |
| 02:41.16 | SpeedEvil | khaije1: pretty much. |
| 02:41.47 | SpeedEvil | khaije1: misusing technical terms 'near-field' that have very precise definitions doesn't help the cause with anyone who knows what the terms mean. |
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| 02:48.46 | khaije1 | SpeedEvil: granted |
| 02:49.33 | Writchie | for what its worth I really like this device - exceeds my expectation. |
| 02:49.48 | telconta1 | the screen is beautiful |
| 02:50.02 | Writchie | i couldn't find the magnifier in my box. |
| 02:50.07 | telconta1 | it will look really good when people get a chance to code some stuff for it |
| 02:50.21 | Writchie | yes. and get the sizes right |
| 02:50.29 | ChooseOpen | amen. this thing is pretty awesome. I was pleasantly surprised when I opened the box. THe device was actually smaller (thinner) than I imagined. |
| 02:50.54 | ChooseOpen | I cant believe that such small fonts are still readable. very clear |
| 02:50.59 | Writchie | i use a p800 so i'm used to oversized phones. |
| 02:51.13 | Writchie | font's are not readible with visual help. |
| 02:51.34 | Writchie | i.e. without |
| 02:51.53 | Writchie | its fine at this stage. |
| 02:52.21 | ChooseOpen | Writchie: sure they are. you just have to squint ;) |
| 02:52.28 | Writchie | if the software interface were all rigidly defined this could be a real phone by christmas |
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| 02:53.01 | arcanericky | Most people at my office thought the neo looked really nice, the display was nice, and that it was so light. |
| 02:53.11 | Writchie | the weight is good. |
| 02:53.34 | Writchie | the sim holders and microsd locations, however, are going to big problem in us |
| 02:54.08 | ChooseOpen | I was told "You look hot with that thing around your neck" LOL! |
| 02:54.28 | orzo | what color is it |
| 02:54.49 | Writchie | the only color that ships at the moment b & s |
| 02:55.00 | orzo | heh |
| 02:55.17 | Writchie | i'm glad i let both of them be this color. |
| 02:56.04 | Writchie | apps of course don't work and don't make calls so on the command line. |
| 02:56.34 | Writchie | i.e. onto the command line we go. |
| 02:56.57 | arcanericky | you must have must loaded rootfs and are firing it up for the first time. |
| 02:57.06 | Writchie | DFU isn't going to cut it for download. |
| 02:57.22 | Writchie | 64KB / sec max because it doesn't use bulk transfer. |
| 02:57.56 | ChooseOpen | Writchie: No luck on using the DIaler GUI? |
| 02:57.56 | Writchie | need a better solution - probably mass storage driver |
| 02:58.21 | Writchie | i didn't expect it to work for a real call. |
| 02:58.26 | Writchie | but i like the dialing. |
| 02:58.28 | orzo | smaller and thinner? |
| 02:58.44 | orzo | the thickness seemed different in different pictures |
| 02:58.51 | SpeedEvil | it's not |
| 02:58.52 | Writchie | i have fat fingers that barely work on p800 |
| 02:58.55 | ChooseOpen | Writchie: I was able to get the GUI to work, mostly :) |
| 02:58.56 | Writchie | work nice on this. |
| 02:59.08 | SpeedEvil | same thickness on P0,1,2 the case doesn't change |
| 02:59.19 | Writchie | ChooseOpen: did you have to fiddle with something? |
| 02:59.33 | ChooseOpen | Writchie: Just the alsa volume. |
| 02:59.52 | Writchie | It's not just sound - the calls aren't going through |
| 03:00.00 | ChooseOpen | the only thing that didnt work is the incoming audible ringer. |
| 03:00.00 | Writchie | modem connection may not be any good. |
| 03:00.04 | Writchie | i'm using lates dev image |
| 03:00.31 | ChooseOpen | Writchie: You built yourself, or from buildhost? |
| 03:00.36 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: the color scheme creates the illusion that it is thinner than it is. |
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| 03:01.11 | Writchie | ChooseOpen: I downloaded for first attempt. I'll try later with the images I built. |
| 03:01.51 | Writchie | The form factor fits well, for one handed operation, at least in my hands. |
| 03:02.03 | Writchie | certainly it's no candy bar phone |
| 03:02.44 | Writchie | I expect it stay in my pocket anyphone for normal telephony use cases. |
| 03:03.10 | Writchie | i prefer to use my BT implants |
| 03:03.35 | Writchie | in china they cost less than lasik |
| 03:03.47 | Writchie | ;) |
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| 03:05.16 | Writchie | seriously, the phone should ship with one of those credit card magnifiers at least for us geezers |
| 03:05.40 | Qwell | friend of mine suggested adding metal "teeth" to the "loop" at the bottom... |
| 03:05.46 | Qwell | make it useful - it can be a bottle opener |
| 03:06.06 | ChooseOpen | Qwell: love it |
| 03:06.26 | Qwell | ChooseOpen: needless to say, I'm modding mine if/when I get it |
| 03:06.27 | Writchie | much rather have a nav pad than a hole |
| 03:06.42 | Writchie | could really use a jog dial |
| 03:06.44 | Qwell | add a nub like on thinkpads |
| 03:06.52 | SuN | Writchie: how big is the Neo compared to a P800? |
| 03:07.04 | Writchie | trackpoint just a couple of bucks including patent license |
| 03:07.32 | Writchie | NEO is a little wider but a bit thinner |
| 03:07.37 | Writchie | compared to p800 |
| 03:07.45 | SuN | Acceptable, I guess. |
| 03:07.47 | SuN | :) |
| 03:07.55 | *** part/#openmoko arcanericky (n=ricky@ppp-70-244-80-189.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 03:08.17 | Writchie | jog dials actually work very well for one handed operation. |
| 03:08.46 | Qwell | jog dial? |
| 03:08.48 | SuN | I'll probably have to get one as soon as it can call people and do GPRS, in one form or another. |
| 03:09.08 | Writchie | jog dial is a wheel that also clicks |
| 03:09.18 | Writchie | convenient up/down/select |
| 03:09.19 | SuN | Jog dials work well, but I imagine they take quite a lot of space inside the device. |
| 03:09.46 | Writchie | takes a bit of space for the wheel. |
| 03:09.56 | Writchie | there are a bunch of other styles. |
| 03:10.21 | Writchie | yes, you can do it all with the touch but its not as fast for simple functions. |
| 03:10.37 | Writchie | 90% are calls and sms for most people. |
| 03:11.05 | Writchie | jog dial may have patent problems but there are other equivalents |
| 03:12.40 | Writchie | dialing keys on the screen works very well - much more reliable than p800 |
| 03:13.13 | Writchie | a real user is going to need screen protectors. |
| 03:14.23 | Writchie | i have an idea, bt keyboard plus magnifier in a credit card |
| 03:15.14 | Qwell | magnifier? |
| 03:15.36 | Writchie | to read system font |
| 03:21.08 | *** join/#openmoko zaery (n=zaery@c-71-202-249-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:21.34 | zaery | Hey, has anyone gotten any songs playing on your neo? |
| 03:21.43 | ChooseOpen | I played an MP3 |
| 03:21.50 | zaery | ooooh, how? |
| 03:22.08 | ChooseOpen | vERY EASY: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem |
| 03:22.13 | zaery | sweet, thanks |
| 03:22.34 | ChooseOpen | see the phase0 quickstart section |
| 03:22.34 | doc|home | urgh, alsa! |
| 03:22.39 | doc|home | alsa for the lose :( |
| 03:24.10 | ChooseOpen | doc|home: heh, yep alsa |
| 03:25.06 | zaery | whoops, first off, i need to get the song onto my neo, how do i do that? |
| 03:25.53 | ChooseOpen | zaery: I used scp. or you can use wget if you have inet acces working |
| 03:25.59 | bmidgley | ChooseOpen: did you get stereo sound out? |
| 03:26.25 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: I told you the other night (Jason1), that I think it was mono... |
| 03:26.44 | bmidgley | ah ok |
| 03:27.02 | bmidgley | you made it seem like there were more neos out there |
| 03:27.08 | ChooseOpen | hehe, that stereo vs mono is really bothering you, eh? hehe |
| 03:27.31 | bmidgley | I'm worried something isn't wired right |
| 03:27.36 | ChooseOpen | did you get your sampling track made? |
| 03:27.46 | bmidgley | I looked at the codec diagram and couldn't figure out how to get mono |
| 03:28.15 | bmidgley | I have an mp3 with voices in the left and instruments in the right but i can't share it :( |
| 03:28.45 | ChooseOpen | did you get the link I sent you the other night? |
| 03:30.03 | bmidgley | doc|home it's kernel alsa not the userspace junk |
| 03:30.36 | zaery | hmmm, i dont think scp worked, i have the "Elements Song.mp3" on my desktop and i tried "zaery@zaery-laptop:~/Desktop$ scp Elements\ Song.mp3 192.168.0.202" |
| 03:30.51 | zaery | all that happened is that i get another prompt |
| 03:30.53 | bmidgley | 192.168.0.202:. |
| 03:30.59 | zaery | aah |
| 03:31.12 | zaery | thanks |
| 03:31.23 | bmidgley | or actually root@192.168.0.202:. |
| 03:31.32 | zaery | even better |
| 03:34.08 | ChooseOpen | Listening to an MP# right now....ahh music to my ears :) |
| 03:36.33 | zaery | yay! anyone heard the tom lehr elements song? |
| 03:36.54 | ferric | zaery: that probably created a file called 192.... on your hard disk. |
| 03:37.20 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 03:37.23 | zaery | weird |
| 03:38.28 | ckuethe | zaery: that's awesome |
| 03:38.43 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 03:38.44 | ckuethe | you should also hear "plagiarize" |
| 03:38.56 | zaery | never heard it |
| 03:38.57 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 03:39.11 | doc|home | bmidgley: better, and it'll be standard hardware so that should help a lot. |
| 03:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@216.17.28.226.ip.usinternet.com) |
| 03:39.28 | zaery | i think ill get chocolate rain on my neo |
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| 03:43.32 | *** part/#openmoko NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D66A.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 03:48.28 | bluelightning | zaery: yeah, the elements song is cool |
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| 03:55.57 | ChooseOpen | Figured out how to listen to streaming radion on the Neo... |
| 03:56.04 | ChooseOpen | radion=radio |
| 03:56.06 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 03:56.24 | ChooseOpen | wget -O - http://radioparadise.steadyhost.com:8050 | madplay - |
| 03:57.07 | ChooseOpen | This thing is getting more useful by the minute :) |
| 03:58.28 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 03:58.30 | datachomper | That's cool |
| 03:59.42 | zaery | some nokia batteries work in the neo.... |
| 04:00.08 | zaery | my old N91 battery works in my neo |
| 04:00.43 | zaery | and the nokia ones say BL-5C on them |
| 04:03.50 | zaery | how do i play the music on only the headphones |
| 04:05.12 | ChooseOpen | zaery: Not sure yet. I am messing with that now... |
| 04:05.23 | zaery | cool, tell me when you get it |
| 04:05.47 | bmidgley | zaery: I filed a bug because the speaker stayed on when using headphones |
| 04:06.00 | bmidgley | it's all in the alsa state file if you can figure it out |
| 04:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 04:06.20 | codyl | ChooseOpen, audio hw works alright? |
| 04:06.29 | codyl | drivers I should say |
| 04:06.34 | bmidgley | unfortunately the alsa mixer control names don't match the names in the wolfson spec |
| 04:06.46 | ChooseOpen | codyl: The only thing I have not sen work is the jack mic. |
| 04:06.51 | ChooseOpen | sen=seen |
| 04:06.57 | codyl | ah |
| 04:07.04 | codyl | headphones are good enough |
| 04:07.13 | codyl | besides bluetooth headset is the way to go |
| 04:07.48 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: did you notice that the "playback" stereo/left/right/mono switch affects the output? |
| 04:08.05 | bmidgley | ? |
| 04:08.19 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: in alsamixer.. |
| 04:08.48 | bmidgley | i didn't play much with alsamixer... soooo many controls... |
| 04:09.22 | bmidgley | but that would be quicker than trial & error rebuilding a state file |
| 04:09.38 | ChooseOpen | check it out. there is some stereo/mono settings that do actually cut audio to the left or right sides... |
| 04:10.19 | bmidgley | I left my neo unplugged and now it won't turn on until it's charged for a while :( |
| 04:10.31 | ChooseOpen | Also un-muting an option called "Left Mix" will cut hte left audio channel.... |
| 04:10.45 | ferric | hm, rev A problems... |
| 04:10.48 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: I did htat last night. Thought I lost her... |
| 04:11.25 | bmidgley | I suspect when the battery is totally dead it only draws 100mA |
| 04:11.46 | bmidgley | could be why it takes so long to work again |
| 04:12.47 | bmidgley | I want to override the "smarts" that prevent a 500mA draw! |
| 04:13.28 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 04:13.43 | zaery | how do i get my bluetooth headset connected to my neo? |
| 04:15.03 | ChooseOpen | zaery: In alsamixer, the switch "Amp Spk" will reduce ext speaker volume significantly if oyu mute it.... Not all the way off, but closer :) |
| 04:15.20 | zaery | alright |
| 04:15.21 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54929CDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:16.08 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: What happened to the order? |
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| 04:19.25 | ChooseOpen | Has anyone got GPRS working? |
| 04:19.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_NYC_Metro]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_North_Texas]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 04:20.00 | zaery | ChooseOpen: i found the Amp Spk 3D but not the reg. Amp Spk |
| 04:20.19 | ChooseOpen | zaery: standby lemme look again |
| 04:20.24 | zaery | kk |
| 04:21.18 | bmidgley | ChooseOpen: you have gsm voice working? |
| 04:21.20 | ChooseOpen | zaery: thats the right one. mine was truncated |
| 04:21.33 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: yeah, on a good day |
| 04:21.42 | bmidgley | which carrier/country? |
| 04:22.06 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: didnt do anything special really, just loaded the alternate state file so hte audio would work |
| 04:22.15 | ChooseOpen | Tmobile/USA |
| 04:22.45 | bmidgley | the dialer didn't switch the audio for you?? hmm |
| 04:23.00 | bmidgley | the gprs init string is really ugly... i used to use tmobile |
| 04:23.28 | bmidgley | down at the bottom of http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/mobile/ |
| 04:23.43 | zaery | ChooseOpen: Amp Apk 3D is just a mute/unmute |
| 04:23.52 | zaery | Apk=Spk |
| 04:23.55 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: It didnt seem to. I manually switched to headset earlier, and it wouldnt work. then I switched to handset and it started working again |
| 04:25.01 | ChooseOpen | zaery: YEah, on un-mute, my ext speaker audio is much quieter. go figure... |
| 04:25.18 | zaery | hmmm, on unmute, mines much louder |
| 04:25.27 | bmidgley | ChooseOpen: do you recognize the init string AT+cgdcont=1,"IP","internet2.voicestream.com" |
| 04:25.36 | bmidgley | have you had to set up gprs from linux before? |
| 04:25.57 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: nope. |
| 04:26.20 | bmidgley | that's what worked about 2 yrs ago... |
| 04:26.34 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77_2 (n=gbarta@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 04:26.35 | bmidgley | then ATD*99# to start the connection |
| 04:26.53 | ChooseOpen | bmidgley: have you tried on OM yet? |
| 04:27.08 | bmidgley | ChooseOpen: I no longer have a tmobile sim |
| 04:27.14 | ChooseOpen | ahhh |
| 04:27.34 | ChooseOpen | Im going to bookmark that. I dont have the patience to get into it tonight... |
| 04:27.50 | *** part/#openmoko gcb77_2 (n=gbarta@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 04:27.52 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.116.66) |
| 04:27.54 | bmidgley | I'll try to borrow a tmobile sim (won't bother my att friends :) |
| 04:29.57 | orospakr | so, will OpenMoko be supporting SyncML/OMA? |
| 04:30.16 | ChooseOpen | orospakr: I sure it will, someday :) |
| 04:30.22 | orospakr | heh. |
| 04:31.04 | bmidgley | I wonder if the user db on the phone is compatible with anything else |
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| 04:56.25 | orospakr | ChooseOpen: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7056478804.html |
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| 05:06.56 | dietsunkis1 | hello y'all |
| 05:07.08 | dietsunkis1 | anyone able to get the sound working? |
| 05:07.08 | aloril | dietsunkis1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 05:07.30 | ChooseOpen | dietsunkis1: yeo |
| 05:07.32 | ChooseOpen | yep |
| 05:07.44 | ChooseOpen | you? |
| 05:08.28 | ChooseOpen | listening to streaming radio right now. |
| 05:10.43 | dietsunkis1 | how did you do it? |
| 05:10.53 | dietsunkis1 | I wasn't able to get it working |
| 05:11.05 | ChooseOpen | Very Easy: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem#Phase0_Quick_Start |
| 05:13.48 | ChooseOpen | dietsunkis1: Aside from audio, how has things been going? |
| 05:13.59 | dietsunkis1 | ok, any sound files in the system I can use for testing? |
| 05:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 05:14.15 | ChooseOpen | nah, I used scp to copy one to /mnt/card |
| 05:14.23 | dietsunkis1 | to be honest I haven't had much chance to hack on it, it only came yesterday and i've been busy with work |
| 05:14.42 | ChooseOpen | you were supposed to take a sick day :) |
| 05:14.52 | dietsunkis1 | I wish :) |
| 05:15.01 | dietsunkis1 | my boss would put a contract out on me |
| 05:15.06 | ChooseOpen | hehe |
| 05:15.46 | dietsunkis1 | though i've been pretty bumped about the whole 3g att card not working thing |
| 05:16.16 | ChooseOpen | dietsunkis1: yeah. Thats sucks any official word yet if it will be able to be fixed in software? |
| 05:16.43 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@adsl-69-224-191-208.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 05:16.51 | dietsunkis1 | nothing yet afaik |
| 05:17.31 | ChooseOpen | I have 3 year old tmobile SIM. Does Tmobile use the 3G SIMs as well these days? |
| 05:17.52 | ChooseOpen | so far, I have only heard complaints about ATT |
| 05:18.15 | dietsunkis1 | did it work for you? |
| 05:18.19 | ChooseOpen | Yep |
| 05:19.00 | dietsunkis1 | call quality ok? |
| 05:19.30 | ChooseOpen | hard to tell b/c I was holding both phones. |
| 05:19.52 | ChooseOpen | the GUI likes to crash if oyu look at it the wrong way. |
| 05:19.59 | ChooseOpen | the command line works well though |
| 05:21.28 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 05:21.52 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker_ (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:21.54 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 05:22.23 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 05:22.41 | Linux_Galore | hello moko nuts |
| 05:22.51 | ChooseOpen | Hey LG |
| 05:22.57 | *** join/#openmoko cninja (n=cninja@pcd702156.netvigator.com) |
| 05:23.59 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 05:24.10 | Linux_Galore | Wonder how Hungarian police torture Microserfs.....if you dont answer me we will make you open an Office 2007 doc file in Openoffice and make you reformat it |
| 05:24.42 | ChooseOpen | hehe |
| 05:24.53 | ChooseOpen | Saw they raided MS offices hehe |
| 05:25.14 | Linux_Galore | about time though |
| 05:25.50 | Linux_Galore | the same rubbish is happening here in Australia ie "loyalty schemes" |
| 05:26.05 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: crazy. |
| 05:26.22 | Linux_Galore | if you dont sell "only" Microsoft products with will "loyaly screw you over" |
| 05:27.07 | Linux_Galore | oops |
| 05:27.28 | Linux_Galore | if you must only sell Microsoft products or we will "loyaly screw you over" |
| 05:27.32 | Linux_Galore | aaah |
| 05:28.03 | Linux_Galore | just woke up from a midday nap |
| 05:28.05 | ChooseOpen | hehe. thats right |
| 05:28.17 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: im fixing to go to bed |
| 05:28.23 | ChooseOpen | 1 am here |
| 05:28.32 | Linux_Galore | 3:28pm here |
| 05:29.02 | Linux_Galore | the missus just got me a new leather executive chair |
| 05:29.12 | ChooseOpen | sweet |
| 05:29.16 | Linux_Galore | hmmmm cooooow |
| 05:29.45 | Linux_Galore | well the back broke on my old one |
| 05:29.59 | ChooseOpen | guess that means that you sit on your ass too much ;) |
| 05:30.38 | Linux_Galore | not really Im in technical marketing so some days I have little if any chance to sit down |
| 05:30.46 | ChooseOpen | hehe |
| 05:31.04 | ChooseOpen | when you getting your Neo? |
| 05:31.09 | Linux_Galore | but I must have me "high back yuppie chair" |
| 05:31.14 | Linux_Galore | sept |
| 05:31.20 | ChooseOpen | 2007? |
| 05:31.23 | ChooseOpen | hehe |
| 05:31.24 | Linux_Galore | yes |
| 05:31.34 | Linux_Galore | well I said Jan 2008 originally |
| 05:32.14 | Linux_Galore | Im not in a big rush I have enough geeky gadgets to play with |
| 05:32.25 | ChooseOpen | yeah. |
| 05:32.29 | ChooseOpen | me too |
| 05:32.56 | Linux_Galore | takes me 3 minutes to load up with all by beeping twiddling gadgets on the way out the door |
| 05:33.05 | Linux_Galore | s/by/my/ |
| 05:33.06 | ChooseOpen | hehe |
| 05:34.20 | Linux_Galore | ipod/zaurus/nokia n95/blackberry phone/plantronics bluetooth headset |
| 05:34.30 | ChooseOpen | damn |
| 05:34.45 | Linux_Galore | when something goes beep it takes me 15 seconds to figure out what it is |
| 05:35.22 | *** join/#openmoko dando (n=dando_@L2db6.l.pppool.de) |
| 05:35.23 | Linux_Galore | the crackberry is my company phones the rest is mine |
| 05:35.28 | Linux_Galore | phone* |
| 05:36.01 | ChooseOpen | not me, I carry one phone. thats it. Son to be the Neo (once its stable) |
| 05:36.12 | ChooseOpen | s/Son/Soon. |
| 05:36.20 | zaery | it's going to be tough to leave n95 behind for neo |
| 05:36.38 | Linux_Galore | yeah, Im hoping the neo in the long term can replace all that crap |
| 05:37.06 | zaery | hsdpa and gps are so nice |
| 05:37.12 | Linux_Galore | yeah, the n95 has putty and a 5MP camera so a neo is a step down for me |
| 05:37.57 | *** join/#openmoko kyled185 (n=kyle@dpc67142242193.direcpc.com) |
| 05:38.07 | Linux_Galore | to be honest I want something like the N800 with the neo built in |
| 05:39.03 | Linux_Galore | Im thinking of getting a neo gta02 pairing it (wifi) with a N800 |
| 05:39.06 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: I am excited to see what FIC has planned for future devices |
| 05:39.09 | *** join/#openmoko drkludge (n=drkludge@ip68-231-40-97.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:39.32 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: yeah no 3G is a bummer |
| 05:39.43 | Linux_Galore | not that I use it anyway |
| 05:40.02 | Linux_Galore | work/home have a wifi setup |
| 05:40.09 | dando | /usr/bin/ld: C.o: Relocations in generic ELF (EM: 40) C.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong format |
| 05:40.38 | ChooseOpen | I travel alot. 3g would be really handy. DOnt use it today, but would on the Neo if I could |
| 05:40.38 | Linux_Galore | how will the NEO get maps though ? |
| 05:40.42 | dando | i have got problems building perl with mokomakefile |
| 05:41.13 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: gprs? |
| 05:41.19 | Psi_ | yay, order has shipped |
| 05:41.19 | Linux_Galore | with the N95 I just download the maps |
| 05:41.27 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: yeah |
| 05:41.28 | ChooseOpen | Psi_: Cngrats! |
| 05:41.50 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: just have to do it really slowly :) |
| 05:42.04 | ChooseOpen | Psi_: Est delivery? |
| 05:42.06 | Psi_ | i also got a "according to our records your request has been resolved" email for some reason |
| 05:42.19 | ChooseOpen | Psi_: THey close your RT ticket once they ship |
| 05:42.24 | Psi_ | ah |
| 05:42.59 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: what Im thinking is downloading the local area maps via wifi then just using gps in conjunction with it, Im wondering what maps the NEO can use |
| 05:43.34 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: people are loking closely at google maps. Also talk about OSM, but their data is very sparse |
| 05:44.11 | ChooseOpen | Anybody know how we are supposed to get ahold of that elusive GPS binary? |
| 05:44.21 | Psi_ | ChooseOpen, no eta given as far as i can see |
| 05:44.22 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: yeah, caching the google maps data may work |
| 05:44.34 | zaery | join the club at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 05:45.26 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: THere was long long discussion on the Community Forum a while back... |
| 05:45.33 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: I didnt follow it very closely |
| 05:46.41 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: I hope someone puts together a resonable OSM compatible GPS client. I would love to contribute route data to them. |
| 05:46.52 | ChooseOpen | s/resonable/reasonable/ |
| 05:47.38 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: there is a open source mapping project, I saw an arrticle last year about it |
| 05:48.01 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: OSM = Open Street Map. THat is the only one I know of... |
| 05:48.15 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: is that the engish one? |
| 05:48.18 | Linux_Galore | ie UK |
| 05:48.40 | ChooseOpen | Definately not much data in my area (Chicago) I think they have much more in the UK... |
| 05:49.10 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: should setup a LUG type thing for that maps project |
| 05:49.22 | ckuethe | apt: if gpsd is installed then there should be a copy of cgpxlogger or gpxlogger installed |
| 05:49.23 | apt | ckuethe: what are you talking about? |
| 05:49.48 | ckuethe | stupid bot. |
| 05:49.52 | ChooseOpen | hehe |
| 05:49.53 | Linux_Galore | heh |
| 05:50.03 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.11.36) |
| 05:50.24 | wiml | in the US, there's always the TIGER dataset ... it has the occasional error but its coverage is good. |
| 05:50.35 | ckuethe | in canada, there is geobase |
| 05:50.58 | ckuethe | roadnav is supposed to get support for that... |
| 05:51.16 | ChooseOpen | I have played with the TIGER data a little... It all gets so complicated LOL |
| 05:51.36 | ckuethe | geobase is pretty nice ... they bothered to map the median in the middle of the road outside my place |
| 05:56.20 | ChooseOpen | g/n all |
| 05:57.31 | *** part/#openmoko ChooseOpen (n=jelwell@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 06:03.24 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@220.227.78.180) |
| 06:03.37 | empty_mind | where can i download pre built openmoko images ? |
| 06:04.36 | drkludge | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1 |
| 06:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko behda1 (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 06:18.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_groups:_Boston]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Talk:Flashing_openmoko]] [[Introduction]] |
| 06:18.52 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
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| 06:24.40 | dando | hi |
| 06:25.02 | dando | hi @ all |
| 06:27.37 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=Compaq_O@cpe-76-184-78-54.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 06:27.48 | ScaredyCat | lo |
| 06:28.16 | ScaredyCat | " Your package has experienced an exception." |
| 06:28.26 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=Christop@p508CF5A0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-86-195.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 06:28.33 | ScaredyCat | looks like it drowned in Kentucky |
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| 07:16.49 | *** part/#openmoko drkludge (n=drkludge@ip68-231-40-97.ph.ph.cox.net) |
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| 07:31.49 | dando | i guess there is bug in mokomakefile |
| 07:32.17 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ACACA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:32.46 | dando | building perl it cant link C.o because it is in wrong format |
| 07:34.06 | roh | dando which bug? |
| 07:34.26 | dando | hmmm |
| 07:34.39 | dando | i can show the output |
| 07:34.52 | dando | http://pastebin.ca/636816 |
| 07:35.04 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 07:35.15 | dando | maybe C.o isn't compiled for arm architecture |
| 07:35.56 | dando | thats my theory |
| 07:36.39 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@gprs-ggsn6-nat.mobil.telenor.no) |
| 07:36.45 | roh | eh,. what i find somehow disturbing are the LANG and LC warnings |
| 07:37.06 | roh | i just built perl yesterday so that should be no problem with mokomakefile |
| 07:37.20 | roh | is your /bin/sh linked to dash? |
| 07:37.27 | mbuf | has anyone worked with runscript with minicom? i am trying to use minicom to send a series of AT commands and get results, but, somehow runscript isn't powerful enough |
| 07:37.34 | dando | no bash |
| 07:38.24 | roh | ok.. so thats at least not this problem.. |
| 07:38.31 | roh | which distro is it? |
| 07:38.40 | dando | Ubuntu |
| 07:38.50 | roh | hm.. same here |
| 07:38.51 | dando | wait let me double check |
| 07:39.28 | dando | yes linked to bash |
| 07:40.14 | dando | C.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong format <--- thats strange |
| 07:41.53 | dando | i cant find this file |
| 07:42.31 | *** join/#openmoko Federico22 (n=Federico@81-208-83-214.fastres.net) |
| 07:42.33 | Federico22 | hi |
| 07:42.52 | roh | tried a make clean-package-perl; make build-package-perl ? |
| 07:43.05 | dando | found it |
| 07:43.13 | hena | hmm, i see you use ccache |
| 07:43.23 | hena | causes troubles sometimes |
| 07:43.39 | dando | did an ---> file C.o <---- |
| 07:43.51 | dando | C.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, ARM, version 1, not stripped |
| 07:44.18 | dando | no i didnt try that |
| 07:44.50 | roh | arghl |
| 07:47.20 | dando | i'm not used to bitbake ! |
| 07:49.40 | roh | me neither.. but i cope |
| 07:50.13 | dando | :) |
| 07:50.21 | dando | looks good |
| 07:50.34 | dando | it is doing something |
| 07:51.21 | blindcoder | moin |
| 07:51.31 | dando | moin |
| 07:51.58 | dando | yes! |
| 07:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@AC8E25BB.ipt.aol.com) |
| 07:54.50 | dando | thx @ roh |
| 07:55.08 | dando | help to clean-package |
| 07:55.43 | ScaredyCat | my neo seems to be teleporting |
| 07:55.59 | dando | from youre hand to my hand? |
| 07:56.09 | guaqua | how many have received the bought neo? |
| 07:56.22 | hads | Yes |
| 07:56.32 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:56.32 | ScaredyCat | KY, US 07/28/2007 3:11 A.M. EXPORT SCAN |
| 07:56.32 | ScaredyCat | APELDOORN, |
| 07:56.32 | ScaredyCat | NL 07/28/2007 8:22 A.M. PACKAGE DATA PROCESSED BY BROKERAGE. WAITING FOR CLEARANCE |
| 07:56.32 | ScaredyCat | LOUISVILLE, |
| 07:56.32 | ScaredyCat | KY, US 07/28/2007 2:21 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN |
| 07:56.50 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 07:57.07 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:57.13 | ScaredyCat | maybe it wants to be in Kentucky |
| 07:58.17 | *** join/#openmoko pengwen (n=pengwen@210.80-203-38.nextgentel.com) |
| 07:58.54 | dando | it can travel back trough time 8:22 am to 3:11 AM |
| 07:59.39 | dando | 2:21 |
| 08:00.03 | ScaredyCat | local times though |
| 08:00.15 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 08:00.24 | ScaredyCat | or is it just magical |
| 08:01.19 | dando | Its a bird, its a plain, it's openmoko |
| 08:04.10 | Linux_Galore | tux was on the front over of a womans magazine at the local paper shop -> http://www.magshop.com.au/Popup_Image.htm?ImageID=3321 |
| 08:04.21 | Linux_Galore | s/over/cover/ |
| 08:04.23 | dando | what does moko stand for ? mobil communication ? In german you write it with a k kommunikation. |
| 08:05.25 | dando | Linux_Galore: crazy world ! |
| 08:05.48 | Linux_Galore | yeahhhh, tux cake howto |
| 08:06.04 | ScaredyCat | mmmm cake |
| 08:06.22 | Linux_Galore | Ive got some overn fries a cookin |
| 08:06.26 | Linux_Galore | oven* |
| 08:06.27 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-101-212.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:06.32 | dando | 66 best selling recipes |
| 08:06.39 | ScaredyCat | well, it's only 9am here.. |
| 08:06.46 | dando | bake youre own kernel |
| 08:07.04 | Linux_Galore | make && kernel && cake |
| 08:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko squalyl (n=squalyl@116.96.70-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 08:07.37 | squalyl | hello world :) |
| 08:07.38 | ScaredyCat | ./configure --with-dried-fruit |
| 08:07.53 | dando | make double chocloate |
| 08:07.59 | squalyl | aha |
| 08:08.16 | squalyl | cd coffee; ./setup.py --add milk |
| 08:08.24 | squalyl | :) |
| 08:08.40 | squalyl | did you see that? http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/27/1927219&from=rss |
| 08:08.53 | *** join/#openmoko drkludge (n=drkludge@ip68-231-40-97.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 08:08.56 | squalyl | an anthi theft system |
| 08:09.03 | squalyl | s/anthi/anti |
| 08:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-20-1.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:09.16 | squalyl | we could do something like that too |
| 08:09.21 | squalyl | hi |
| 08:09.27 | Linux_Galore | Im reading this right now, seriously the guys at Linspire smoke crack -> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2007072014373817 |
| 08:09.28 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host81-159-20-1.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:09.58 | dando | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:10.05 | drkludge | any one see these messages when flashing the kernel on the devices that just shipped ##dfu_download error -110 |
| 08:10.05 | drkludge | ] finished! |
| 08:10.06 | Linux_Galore | squalyl: install ipolinux instant fix |
| 08:10.13 | Linux_Galore | ipodlinux* |
| 08:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@adsl-d164.84-47-40.t-com.sk) |
| 08:12.03 | guaqua | squalyl: key pair authentication, easily done |
| 08:13.40 | squalyl | way easier is "ask a password when pairing with computer and brick mobile device after 3 failures" |
| 08:13.51 | squalyl | no need for a new patent to do that |
| 08:13.56 | guaqua | that works too |
| 08:14.22 | squalyl | I could write patents for Apple, cool \o/ |
| 08:14.27 | guaqua | but key pair is already done, no need to invent the wheel again |
| 08:15.20 | squalyl | i'm not totally aware of how it works but key pair souns "a unique host" to me. Maybe we can export the key i don't know |
| 08:15.30 | squalyl | s/souns/sounds |
| 08:16.16 | guaqua | that: http://sial.org/howto/openssh/publickey-auth/ |
| 08:16.26 | ScaredyCat | squalyl: wiat, you want to start limiting where people can charge their neo? |
| 08:16.32 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:16.33 | squalyl | OK I know that :) |
| 08:16.44 | squalyl | ScaredyCat: lol not a all |
| 08:16.53 | guaqua | there could be a password dialog whenever it's plugged into an external power source |
| 08:17.14 | ScaredyCat | that would take annoying to a new level |
| 08:17.23 | ScaredyCat | wtf is the point... |
| 08:17.33 | ScaredyCat | take the battery out charge it elsewhere |
| 08:17.40 | guaqua | true |
| 08:17.47 | squalyl | yes |
| 08:17.48 | ScaredyCat | you *can't* on an ipod. |
| 08:18.30 | squalyl | so forget it, I was 50% kidding :) |
| 08:18.41 | squalyl | the idea of a patent for this was funny to me |
| 08:18.54 | mmp | :) But from other side, quite interesting idea -- power socket will charge only authorized devices:) |
| 08:19.07 | guaqua | i'm guessing the anti-theft devices on the moko and privacy protection in general will be on a pretty good level |
| 08:19.35 | hads | Move to a safer place? |
| 08:19.37 | squalyl | This could be a pain to enter a password or pin everytime we want to charge it T_T |
| 08:20.08 | roh | squalyl eh.. whatfor that'? |
| 08:20.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Openmoko_for_other_devices]] [[SH1]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Auckland]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Developer_preview]] |
| 08:24.13 | Writchie | drkludge: did you find your problem? |
| 08:24.21 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-116-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 08:24.44 | drkludge | yes |
| 08:24.56 | drkludge | late night cloning on the command line |
| 08:25.09 | Writchie | wrong parameter on -a ? |
| 08:25.22 | drkludge | I used the -a 5 which is for a root fs when it should have been a -3 |
| 08:25.25 | drkludge | ;-) |
| 08:25.39 | drkludge | reflashing boot fs and kernel now. |
| 08:25.41 | Writchie | happened to be too - |
| 08:25.52 | drkludge | LOL |
| 08:26.03 | drkludge | The kids think the phone is cool |
| 08:26.07 | Writchie | root fs takes about 7 to 8 minutes cause its only 64KB per second |
| 08:26.14 | Writchie | mine too |
| 08:26.20 | drkludge | LOL They thought it was an iPhone |
| 08:26.32 | Writchie | mine have been waiting for these since christmas |
| 08:26.59 | drkludge | Yeah I noticed the long fs flash time too. Hitting the aux button helps |
| 08:27.14 | drkludge | Well it keeps timeout from happening |
| 08:27.16 | Writchie | i don't know why |
| 08:27.24 | Writchie | i didn't get timeout |
| 08:27.35 | drkludge | I got one or two |
| 08:27.42 | drkludge | It seems ok now |
| 08:27.47 | Writchie | problem is that DFU doesn't use bulk io on usb |
| 08:28.04 | Writchie | wasn't really meant to load up 30mB |
| 08:28.24 | drkludge | I wonder if my timeouts were because I hadn't had the battery charging very long |
| 08:28.39 | Writchie | probably - i had to steal a battery from a Nokia phone |
| 08:29.00 | Writchie | i'm not even sure its charging. |
| 08:29.09 | drkludge | Have you tried using the phone yet? |
| 08:29.19 | Writchie | its not a phone yet |
| 08:29.36 | drkludge | Oh |
| 08:29.43 | Writchie | did you load latest image |
| 08:30.00 | drkludge | I am loading it now |
| 08:30.03 | marsan | <drkludge> Have you tried using the phone yet? |
| 08:30.05 | marsan | hehe |
| 08:30.10 | marsan | <Writchie> its not a phone yet |
| 08:30.24 | marsan | good one |
| 08:30.48 | Writchie | the keypad concept works very well |
| 08:31.27 | Writchie | i'm not sure about charger. I was ssh'd in a left it there and now the phone is dead |
| 08:31.35 | drkludge | Well I soon see what it does |
| 08:32.00 | Writchie | i hear it will play mp3 - will find out tommorow |
| 08:32.16 | Writchie | 4:32 AM here so i got's to go. |
| 08:32.34 | drkludge | Thanks for your help |
| 08:32.37 | drkludge | Night |
| 08:32.43 | Writchie | np goodnight |
| 08:34.34 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A575D8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:36.58 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423_ (n=chatzill@A743b.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
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| 08:40.32 | squalyl | haha let's test your anti phising skills =) http://www.siteadvisor.com/quizzes/phishing_0707/ |
| 08:42.02 | blindcoder | that test is bogus since it doesn't give me all the tools a real visit to the website does |
| 08:42.46 | squalyl | Of course. But given pictures are sufficient =) (at least they say that) |
| 08:43.05 | squalyl | You'll have explanations in the results |
| 08:43.17 | blindcoder | and I claim the sky is green where I am |
| 08:43.33 | blindcoder | you have no way to verify my claim without actually being here |
| 08:44.21 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 08:44.23 | drkludge | Does anyone know if you have to power the usb connection on the neo so that you can use a keyboard? |
| 08:44.32 | roh | blindcoder but i can guess which drugs youre taking ;9 |
| 08:44.52 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 08:44.53 | hads | siteadvisor is silly |
| 08:45.24 | blindcoder | roh: caffeeine :-) |
| 08:45.47 | roh | wow.. caffeine makes the sky green for you? |
| 08:45.53 | squalyl | lol |
| 08:46.17 | blindcoder | YOU ANSWERED 10 OF 10 QUESTIONS CORRECTLY |
| 08:46.17 | roh | i know fluffy and pink.. but green? |
| 08:46.19 | blindcoder | yay |
| 08:46.24 | roh | ;) |
| 08:46.27 | blindcoder | I'm a feckin' genius :P |
| 08:46.37 | squalyl | maybe it's caffeine++ :) |
| 08:46.55 | blindcoder | roh: blind, colorblind, all the same to me :) |
| 08:47.01 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
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| 08:58.03 | inksmithy | lo all |
| 08:58.53 | *** part/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3CBD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 09:41.15 | squalyl | I'm a little disappointed about laforge's message :( Targetting geeks only will never help to make OpenMoko known. Even if our resources are limited, I think we should interest other firms in opensource, to show them the benefits of such technologies. Of course we can't compete with big phone makers, but there is no reason to be afraid of that. Why no distribution deals with carriers? Why not targetting the normal phone market, even if it' |
| 09:41.28 | squalyl | I should reply on a list, but which one? |
| 09:41.36 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mab3a.m.pppool.de) |
| 09:42.08 | *** join/#openmoko nerv (n=michael@i3ED6FDE1.versanet.de) |
| 09:42.48 | nerv | hey all |
| 09:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qf97b.q.pppool.de) |
| 09:44.06 | daxxar | squalyl: You got cut off at "normal phone market, even if it'" |
| 09:46.11 | squalyl | sorry |
| 09:46.24 | squalyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:46.35 | squalyl | resources are limited, I think we should interest other firms in opensource, to show them the benefits of such technologies. Of course we |
| 09:46.42 | squalyl | can't compete with big phone makers, but there is no reason to be afraid of that. Why no distribution deals with carriers? Why not targetting |
| 09:46.48 | squalyl | the normal phone market, even if it's a long term goal? Setting such goals will help to motivate developers, It's far more challenging that |
| 09:46.54 | squalyl | "only for openwrt guys" |
| 09:46.58 | nerv | i get "no rule to compile target ... dummy_hcd.c" when i try to compile these usb-modules under feisty, any ideas? |
| 09:46.58 | aloril | nerv: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 09:49.38 | *** join/#openmoko likesN30_ (n=me@dD5763257.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:55.22 | mikini | hey, whats with mokomakefile, and missing WebKitGdk when configureing openmoko-rssreader? |
| 09:56.45 | roh | mikini good question.. i though the rssreader was pinned down to a version before that dependency came to |
| 09:56.51 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@cable-vrk-fe5cdd00-177.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:58.01 | jgm | squalyl: missed that message, where is it? |
| 09:58.20 | squalyl | I did not post this message on a list. |
| 09:58.37 | squalyl | I'll do it, on which list should I do that? |
| 09:58.47 | squalyl | devel? |
| 10:00.14 | SpeedEvil | squalyl: no tie-in-deals with carriers is simply at the moment because for the forseeable future it will not meet their standards. |
| 10:00.31 | SpeedEvil | The software is simply not functional enough. |
| 10:01.18 | SpeedEvil | In the future, there is the issue that there are no additional revenue streams due to locked-in-software, for example, ringtones, or downloadable wallpaper. |
| 10:01.54 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 10:02.31 | jgm | squalyl: was the message on irc then? |
| 10:03.36 | SpeedEvil | We _must_ - at some time in the hopefully not too distant future have when the phone comes out of the box (or even several pre-configured versions) |
| 10:03.36 | squalyl | ah OK sorry I didnt undersand |
| 10:03.46 | squalyl | the source message is on openmoko-gsmd |
| 10:03.46 | SpeedEvil | several options. |
| 10:04.08 | SpeedEvil | Neo1973-teen - myspace, facebook, ... all integrated, ... |
| 10:04.16 | squalyl | jgm: about "GSM Modem Confusion" |
| 10:04.45 | SpeedEvil | Neo1973-Stockbroker - Financial times, stock RSS feeds, ... |
| 10:04.58 | mikini | roh: ought to have been if it breaks build at least. is webkit available somewhere? cant find any traces of it... |
| 10:05.28 | jgm | Ah yeah, seen it |
| 10:06.11 | jgm | It is... worrying... that some people (who are being paid to build this, remember) seem to be treating it as a hobbyist project |
| 10:06.28 | roh | mikini its beeing in the works, but needs a newer oe and thus its better to wait for the merge |
| 10:06.53 | jgm | Think it's going to cause a lot of grief not too far down the line when the people who want to build a better 'phone are going to find themselves at odds with the "it's a hacker's 'phone" crew |
| 10:07.22 | SpeedEvil | There should rationally be no conflict. |
| 10:07.32 | jgm | The key word there being "rationally" |
| 10:08.11 | nerv | i get "no rule to compile target ... dummy_hcd.c" when i try to compile these usb-modules under feisty, any ideas? |
| 10:08.11 | SpeedEvil | It must not be a hackers phone. It must be easily switchable to be a hackers phone. |
| 10:08.20 | squalyl | I totally agree |
| 10:08.31 | jgm | Ah well, I guess we'll wait and see. But I for one do not want to work on a project list this if it is aimed a bunch of people who could go write the thing themselves. If nothing else there is a massive UI issue that needs to be fixed for 'phones in general. I mean, can you point me to a 'phone whose UI doesn't suck? |
| 10:08.32 | SpeedEvil | (hacker in the non-cracker sense of course) |
| 10:08.40 | squalyl | There's a reputation issue |
| 10:09.00 | squalyl | If openmoko is known to be a geek phone no one else will get interested in it. |
| 10:09.10 | jgm | True |
| 10:09.36 | mmazur | Do keep in mind that phones are in a large part powerd by the gadget community. |
| 10:09.37 | squalyl | Where do I write all that? To the community list? (not related to gsm anymore) |
| 10:09.43 | mmazur | Which != geek per se, though comes close. |
| 10:10.03 | squalyl | geeks provides gadgets, which are used by every one else ! |
| 10:10.57 | SpeedEvil | It's also unfortunate that they haven't talked to users about use-cases for stuff and things they are thinking of increasing. |
| 10:11.04 | SpeedEvil | s/increasing/including/ |
| 10:11.30 | jgm | I think that once the 'phones get out there more to developers we'll see more of that being pushed |
| 10:11.32 | SpeedEvil | For example, the bluetooth comment. 'none of us uses bluetooth much'. Leading to lack of wake-on-bluetooth. |
| 10:11.45 | mmazur | It's saturday and I still haven't gotten my shippment email :( |
| 10:11.50 | jgm | But it's going to be driven by the community |
| 10:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko dietsunkist (n=sunkist@adsl-69-110-144-204.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 10:12.13 | mjr | yeah the bluetooth thing seemed a downer, if not supercritical |
| 10:12.38 | SpeedEvil | It's an example of a simple hardware fix - if the communication had been made in time. |
| 10:12.41 | dietsunkist | is bluetooth in gta1/ |
| 10:12.42 | mjr | *nod* |
| 10:12.44 | mjr | dietsunkist, yes |
| 10:12.47 | SpeedEvil | yes - bluetooth is in. |
| 10:12.56 | dietsunkist | drivers? |
| 10:12.57 | aloril | dietsunkist: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:13.02 | jgm | It's odd that Harald says that they are not trying to be another smartphone when all of the basic apps (today, contacts, calendar etc.) look very familiar to anyone who has used winmobile |
| 10:13.28 | SpeedEvil | the issue is that the CPU has to be awake to listen to it, which means that the battery life with bluetooth is on is 48 hours or so. |
| 10:13.33 | mjr | jgm, the basic apps need to. What comes after... |
| 10:13.59 | koen | jgm: I don't buy his reasoning |
| 10:14.11 | dietsunkist | i wonder if symbian could be loaded.... |
| 10:14.21 | koen | jgm: it sounds like "I'm too lazy too implement it, so I call it crap so I don't have to implement it" |
| 10:15.05 | jgm | mjr: Actually I disagree. What *needs* to be there are solid interfaces to the hardware. After that we can worry about the apps |
| 10:15.06 | SpeedEvil | With another wire on the bluetooth -mainboard connector, it could have done the same while being able to going completely to sleep. This leads to a battery life of a week or so listening to bluetooth. |
| 10:15.26 | *** join/#openmoko wvdschel (n=wvdschel@d51A467A6.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:15.30 | jgm | koen: I'm worried that it's more "It doesn't fit my personal vision so we're not going to implement it" |
| 10:15.37 | SpeedEvil | Of course, this can't happen on 02 as the changes are too major. |
| 10:15.38 | jgm | Which is fine, as long as they do support other people implementing it |
| 10:15.47 | SpeedEvil | unless there is a hack. |
| 10:15.48 | koen | jgm: or "don't allow it to be implemented" |
| 10:16.02 | jgm | koen: that would be Very Bad |
| 10:16.08 | mjr | jgm, of course that too. |
| 10:16.20 | koen | jgm: just mention mms support and you get the idea |
| 10:16.30 | jgm | mjr: well my point was 'that first', but yeah :) |
| 10:16.33 | mjr | But frankly, this seems just an oversight. Granted, one that could've been solved... |
| 10:16.47 | koen | (even if mms is in the application layer AIUI) |
| 10:16.58 | jgm | koen: exactly. Harald comes back with "we're not doing it" rather than "if you want it, you do it" |
| 10:17.01 | mjr | and it'll decrease the usefulness of the phone for some usage scenarios, yes, which is unfortunate |
| 10:17.29 | squalyl | I'm limited in my explanations by my poor english vocabulary. I'm going to post a message on community list, please help me by confirming that we all have the same view about this |
| 10:17.34 | daxxar | SpeedEvil: Does gta02 have the bt fix? |
| 10:17.37 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 10:17.46 | daxxar | Have you contacted them about it? |
| 10:18.03 | SpeedEvil | squalyl: I'm going to post a similar message - what openmoko must not be - in a few minx. |
| 10:18.15 | SpeedEvil | mins |
| 10:18.35 | Elrond | bt fix? |
| 10:18.36 | roh | mikini edit openmoko/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc and change SRCDATE_openmoko-rssreader = "20070723" to SRCDATE_openmoko-rssreader = "20070722" |
| 10:18.37 | squalyl | post it as a reply to mine :) I'm finishing the last words |
| 10:19.05 | roh | mikini then make clean-package-openmoko-rssreader and make openmoko-devel-image should work |
| 10:19.06 | dietsunkist | what really annoys me is that the openmoko people, harald, sean, werner rarely post, and when they post it's usually useless stuff |
| 10:19.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Talpa]] [[User:Madbob]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Turin]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[Main_Page/jp]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 10:19.21 | dietsunkist | that worries me too about the future of the device |
| 10:19.58 | SpeedEvil | I can only include that at least some of the reason for that is that they are stopped from posting more detailed stuff by managment. |
| 10:20.07 | squalyl | post done |
| 10:20.13 | SpeedEvil | s/include/conclude/ |
| 10:20.25 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I shouldn't try to listen to the radio while typing. |
| 10:20.37 | squalyl | :) |
| 10:20.47 | roh | SpeedEvil harald and sean are the management. |
| 10:20.48 | squalyl | we'll beat you for this :D |
| 10:21.21 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. I guess they must consider it's important to hold some information. |
| 10:21.58 | Elrond | What's the issue currently? |
| 10:22.26 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 10:24.11 | dietsunkist | brb |
| 10:25.14 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2541 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: preferred-versions: push back date of openmoko-rssreader |
| 10:25.26 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: nothing really - just general percieved poor communication. |
| 10:25.51 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 10:26.27 | SpeedEvil | For example - are those who are >1000 phones down the queue likely to wait a week, or 4 weeks, or ... And what's been done to cope with the orders so far. |
| 10:26.52 | SpeedEvil | Or why it's not possible to answer at this time. |
| 10:27.14 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh, okay. The usual communication problem. |
| 10:27.34 | Elrond | And what's this "bt" thing? |
| 10:27.40 | SpeedEvil | BlueTooth |
| 10:28.11 | Elrond | Yeah, what's up with bluetooth? |
| 10:28.31 | SpeedEvil | It can't wake from sleep on bluetooth events. |
| 10:28.31 | mjr | the cpu can't wake from sleep on bluetooth activity |
| 10:28.39 | SpeedEvil | (I press a key on an external BT keyboard) |
| 10:29.39 | SpeedEvil | The BT module is really quite frugal listening for stuff in this mode. Adding the CPU having to listen to it means that it takes a dozen times more power at best. |
| 10:31.10 | Elrond | Ahh. :-| |
| 10:31.40 | Elrond | Anyway, I'm heading away. Trying to meet mickeyl :-) |
| 10:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 10:35.18 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081FECB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:37.11 | SpeedEvil | Wave. |
| 10:37.29 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFC9EB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:37.48 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@201008120042.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 10:40.20 | SpeedEvil | squalyl: where is the message you were commenting on? I'm not seeing it. |
| 10:40.20 | Tetraden | hmm, i have here some coordinates (32'42"37 04° N 117'09"43 10° W) but i can't figure out how to find them in google maps. just pasting them into the search field doent work. |
| 10:41.17 | SpeedEvil | try 32:42:37N 117:09:43W |
| 10:41.19 | Tetraden | +s |
| 10:41.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2542 10/trunk/src/target/ (OM-2007.2/ OM-2008/): move OM-2008 to OM-2007.2 to indicate that this is a minor update |
| 10:41.56 | Tetraden | nope, "no matching targets" :( |
| 10:42.58 | SpeedEvil | +56° 13' 0.41", -3° 6' 42.66" works |
| 10:43.12 | SpeedEvil | enter 3.54 3.54 into the search box |
| 10:43.28 | SpeedEvil | now copy and paste the shown coordinate and edit |
| 10:43.45 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2543 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/ (libmokogsmd/ libmokogsmd2/): libmokogsmd -> libmokogsmd2 |
| 10:43.46 | Tetraden | wow, how did you translated this? |
| 10:44.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2544 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/ (libmokojournal/ libmokojournal2/): libmokojournal -> libmokojournal2 |
| 10:44.51 | SpeedEvil | translate what? |
| 10:44.58 | SpeedEvil | San-diego, next to the airport? |
| 10:45.08 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2545 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/ (libmokoui/ libmokoui2/): libmokoui -> libmokoui2 |
| 10:45.44 | Tetraden | hmm, is west positive or negative? |
| 10:46.02 | SpeedEvil | west is positive. |
| 10:46.05 | SpeedEvil | east is negative. |
| 10:46.15 | abraxa_ | Elrond: Wow, you already leave now? |
| 10:46.21 | Tetraden | thank you :) |
| 10:48.15 | squalyl | SpeedEvil: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-July/000136.html |
| 10:48.32 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 10:49.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2546 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/: copy panel plugins to OM-2007.2 |
| 10:49.55 | SpeedEvil | Don't subscribe to that. |
| 10:51.15 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=Administ@pD953AC7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:52.47 | *** join/#openmoko numbers (n=bug@86.59.65.236) |
| 10:53.40 | numbers | hi! |
| 10:53.48 | SpeedEvil | Hello. |
| 10:54.19 | numbers | anybody else who get a trackingnumber and CAN'T track it? |
| 10:54.19 | aloril | numbers: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:54.29 | SpeedEvil | what does UPS say? |
| 10:55.20 | numbers | i didn't call them i try that later |
| 10:55.51 | numbers | the tracking site just said: >>> UPS could not locate the shipment details for your request. Please verify your information and try again later. |
| 10:56.06 | SpeedEvil | when did you get the email? |
| 10:56.50 | numbers | today 6:59 |
| 10:56.56 | numbers | AM |
| 10:57.07 | SpeedEvil | what time is it? |
| 10:57.17 | *** join/#openmoko mib_force (i=mib_forc@2001:1638:17a5:0:0:0:0:20) |
| 10:57.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2547 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/: openmoko-dialer -> openmoko-dialer2 |
| 10:57.33 | numbers | cental europe |
| 10:57.45 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2548 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/: openmoko-today -> openmoko-today2 |
| 10:57.54 | numbers | s/cental/central/ |
| 10:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0DC6A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:57.58 | ewanm89_laptop | numbers: That isn't very usefull for a time. |
| 10:58.05 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. I guess wait a few hours. |
| 10:58.11 | SpeedEvil | And then if not call them. |
| 10:58.23 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: it means that they are open. |
| 10:58.31 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: the local branch |
| 10:59.28 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 11:00.03 | numbers | SpeedEvil: Thanks i'll call them! |
| 11:01.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2549 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/: delete, that wasn't supposed to be a copy |
| 11:01.22 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: Yes they would be. |
| 11:01.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2550 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/: delete, this wasn't supposed to be a copy |
| 11:01.45 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2551 10/trunk/src/target/ (2 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-dialer -> openmoko-dialer2 |
| 11:01.46 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.160) |
| 11:02.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2552 10/trunk/src/target/ (2 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-today -> openmoko-today2 |
| 11:05.11 | *** part/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 11:05.45 | Psi_ | do we know how many orders were canceled from people who didnt realize the phone was a development version? |
| 11:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 11:05.50 | Psi_ | im just curious |
| 11:06.02 | PBeck | hi |
| 11:06.26 | SpeedEvil | No, we don't. |
| 11:07.10 | SpeedEvil | Does anyone know at what time the 'this is a developers phone' ? |
| 11:07.18 | SpeedEvil | box was added to the store? |
| 11:07.31 | Psi_ | wasnt there when i ordered mine |
| 11:07.39 | SpeedEvil | #? |
| 11:07.44 | Psi_ | 2019 |
| 11:13.22 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 11:13.59 | quinton | would sending a "0" to /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on kill the power to the GSM module, or just as it to shut itself down? |
| 11:15.53 | quinton | *ask |
| 11:17.31 | SpeedEvil | kills |
| 11:17.58 | numbers | telefon call to ups sucks, (i gave up after 14 min on hold, i hate IVR-systems) |
| 11:18.32 | Psi_ | what did you want to find out? |
| 11:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno (n=Pupeno@89-125-118-165.dhcp-ripwave.irishbroadband.ie) |
| 11:19.06 | Frostshoc | anyone received their phone? |
| 11:19.29 | numbers | mytracking number dont work |
| 11:19.58 | Psi_ | what about the direct link in the email? |
| 11:21.09 | numbers | wont work neither |
| 11:21.16 | Psi_ | weird |
| 11:21.31 | numbers | jup |
| 11:22.50 | roh | quinton that will disable the gsm serial but not really the modem. that is switched off via at-command |
| 11:23.30 | Psi_ | numbers, how long ago did you get the tracking email? |
| 11:23.38 | roh | quinton thats a limitation of the used gsm chipset. |
| 11:24.09 | quinton | i was just wondering if there was a way to shut it off completely for those who are paranoid of being tracked |
| 11:24.54 | numbers | Psi: today 6:59 cest |
| 11:26.01 | Psi_ | i suppose it could take a while for the package to enter the tracking system |
| 11:26.23 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2553 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokopanelui2/ (19 files in 3 dirs): libmokopanelui2: initial import, extracted from libmokoui(1) |
| 11:26.29 | numbers | Psi: do you think it will take more time untill ups updates their site? |
| 11:26.38 | roh | quinton yes. send the gsm-modem the right command and then disable the serial with the sysfs entry |
| 11:26.59 | numbers | Psi: Thanks! |
| 11:27.02 | Psi_ | numbers, its definitely possible |
| 11:27.32 | squalyl | How many people subscribed to the community list? Discussion seems to continue on gsmd-devel without paying attention to my message :/ |
| 11:28.38 | numbers | the weeks from ordering till yesterday i was quite cool BUT NOW i sit on needles |
| 11:28.49 | quinton | roh, would you have to trust the closed gsm-modem? or is there some way to be sure it's off? |
| 11:28.49 | numbers | ;-) |
| 11:29.06 | daxxar | I just subscribed to community, but I think I was too late to get your message. |
| 11:29.23 | squalyl | I'll put a link on gsmd-devel |
| 11:29.30 | roh | quinton gta02 will have a real load switch there. for gta01 it was much too late to change that. |
| 11:29.39 | daxxar | Not subscribed to gsmd-devel. Can you paste me a link? |
| 11:30.23 | quinton | roh, like a relay switch? so you can hear it get disconnected? |
| 11:30.27 | squalyl | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008394.html |
| 11:30.56 | roh | quinton no. electronic. but controlled from the app-cpu |
| 11:31.28 | quinton | roh, how do you mean 'loud'? |
| 11:31.52 | *** join/#openmoko keesj (n=keesj@ip49-193-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl) |
| 11:31.56 | quinton | roh, does it actually make a noise? |
| 11:32.21 | roh | load not loud. basically a transistor which is dimensioned to switch loads and not be 'analog' in behaviour |
| 11:32.22 | quinton | oh, i misread it |
| 11:32.48 | quinton | sorry, i'm still half asleep |
| 11:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@220.227.78.180) |
| 11:33.24 | *** part/#openmoko Majori1 (n=Majorie@p508CF5A0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:35.16 | quinton | roh, okay, so are you saying that the gta02 will have the ability to physically cut the power on the openmoko side, but the gta01 does not? |
| 11:35.52 | dando | http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/moko_wire_black.png |
| 11:36.08 | dando | have some Wallpapers here ! |
| 11:36.09 | roh | yes. but since the code which switches off the gsm is from someone under control of openmoko and not ti i trust it works |
| 11:36.10 | dando | http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/moko_wire_black.png |
| 11:36.53 | dando | what do you think about it? |
| 11:38.28 | quinton | roh, are you talking about code that runs on the gsm itself? |
| 11:38.54 | roh | quinton yes. |
| 11:39.12 | quinton | roh, wow, i didn't know openmoko people had infiltrated so far =) |
| 11:39.53 | quinton | roh, well that's very cool. thanks much for the info |
| 11:39.55 | roh | quinton not all code in there is ours. just whats needed to make it work properly |
| 11:40.14 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 11:40.27 | dando | http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/moko_wire_black.png <-- youre opinion ! |
| 11:40.35 | dando | :) |
| 11:40.38 | dando | =) |
| 11:40.46 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.ethome-ip.ethome.com.tw) |
| 11:41.02 | roh | ;) be shure we are very much aware how paranoid a linux geek can be and what cornercases want to be controlled |
| 11:42.00 | quinton | i get more happy with this project the more i find out |
| 11:42.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2554 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokogsmd2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): libmokogsmd2: catch up with name changes |
| 11:42.20 | daxxar | roh: Sent you an email a day or so ago, didya get it? 'twas about VISA charge. :-) |
| 11:42.23 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-48-250.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:44.14 | quinton | dando, it's cool, but from a distance it looks blurry, maybe if you culled the back edges? |
| 11:45.00 | roh | daxxar dunno... visa? i do not have a clue about sales/shipping atm |
| 11:45.06 | dando | did you look at it with 1280*1024 res? |
| 11:45.35 | quinton | dando, yeah |
| 11:45.45 | daxxar | roh: Oh, okay. Where should I send an inquiry about it? I've gotten an email about me being charged, but I can't see the charge on my end, so I was curious if something had gone wrong. |
| 11:46.03 | dando | ok i didnt do them |
| 11:46.12 | dando | http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/ <-- here are some more |
| 11:46.21 | roh | daxxar sales@ handles that |
| 11:46.35 | dando | but i will tell him to cull the back edges |
| 11:46.41 | quinton | btw, what do you see the logo as? |
| 11:46.43 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=ucordes@f048006061.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:46.48 | daxxar | roh: Thanks |
| 11:46.52 | quinton | at first i figured it was a dot on a globe or something |
| 11:47.15 | bluelightning | reminds me of the death star somehow |
| 11:47.18 | quinton | but when i saw it on a phone i saw it as a person |
| 11:47.21 | bluelightning | I don't know if that's a good thing or not |
| 11:48.05 | quinton | bluelightning, heh, that's awesome, i think i'll choose to see it that way from now on =) |
| 11:48.07 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 11:48.24 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-69-48.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 11:48.31 | dando | under what license is the logo ? |
| 11:48.54 | bluelightning | I showed off the Neo amongst some of my geeky friends at the bar this evening.. they all seemed pretty interested |
| 11:48.57 | abraxa_ | dando: It looks great, just the person's head is a little on the bumpy side of things - maybe he can make it perfectly round? |
| 11:49.42 | squalyl | bluelightning: show it to all your friends too :) |
| 11:49.47 | dando | ok |
| 11:50.50 | bluelightning | squalyl: the problem is that non-geeks aren't impressed that it can't do very much yet without opening a console :) |
| 11:51.14 | *** join/#openmoko oskude (n=oskude@dslb-084-058-254-059.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:52.47 | noidd | This "SIM is disconnected" error message I get with Cingular / AT&T sims. If anyone wants to get on my neo to take a look and see if I've done something profoundly stupid - I'll set up ssh access as required. |
| 11:53.33 | squalyl | bluelightning: That's the point |
| 11:53.50 | squalyl | we must develop openmoko so that it becomes impressive to everyone |
| 11:53.57 | bluelightning | squalyl: indeed |
| 11:54.25 | noidd | squaly: we need to develop it so it becomes impressive to geeks first or we won't have anyone to push to everyone. |
| 11:54.28 | quinton | dando, i like the solid ones |
| 11:54.36 | bluelightning | unfortunately last time I tried to connect to the phone via serial it never responded... so either it's toasted or there was something wrong with the image I flashed |
| 11:54.58 | bluelightning | (phone as in the phone AT interface) |
| 11:55.13 | dando | maybe i should publish them in the wiki |
| 11:55.30 | dando | but we need to know the license |
| 11:55.31 | noidd | I know I obsess about this on a daily basis but I love the material that the phone is made from. It's like some kind of alien material that i've never seen used anywhere else. |
| 11:55.39 | squalyl | geeks first is a good thing of course, but we need to keep in mind greater goals, or we'll be locked in our small goals :) |
| 11:55.51 | dando | is it ok to copy the logo? |
| 11:55.52 | noidd | since when do geeks have small goals? |
| 11:56.07 | squalyl | lol no idea |
| 11:57.20 | squalyl | what I mean is that such a great project must concern everyone not just linux enthusiasts :) |
| 11:57.48 | squalyl | because they're already convinced that neo will be great :) |
| 11:57.57 | quinton | to my eyes, the neo is the sleekest phone around |
| 11:57.57 | quinton | not sure if i'm just biased though |
| 11:58.39 | sixfeet | moin |
| 11:59.21 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-195-162.netcologne.de) |
| 12:00.18 | dando | moin |
| 12:01.17 | quinton | i think this could well change things, when the masses discover openmoko the phone companies will find it harder to justify locking everything down |
| 12:05.45 | calamous1_ | Anyone get 3G at&t sim cards working? |
| 12:06.16 | noidd | hey calamous1_, just the guy I wanted to see |
| 12:06.36 | calamous1_ | Hey noidd: whats up |
| 12:07.02 | noidd | Linky for you: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gsmd-devel/2007-July/000128.html |
| 12:07.50 | noidd | its perhaps possible that the errors we're getting are due to the lack of that patch |
| 12:08.12 | noidd | I don't think so looking at it, but we should test it just in case |
| 12:09.58 | calamous1_ | Yeah, I agree |
| 12:10.38 | calamous1_ | But even without gsmd and libgsm-tool cu still gives an error. From what I understand there arnt any drivers for the cylapso device |
| 12:10.57 | calamous1_ | It is connected via standard URAT and you just talk to it. lol |
| 12:11.04 | noidd | yeah, which is why i'm not sure its relevant |
| 12:11.11 | noidd | oh - I have another SIM to test too |
| 12:11.23 | noidd | from a local pay as you go company |
| 12:11.48 | calamous1_ | Nice, I'm going to get one of those too. |
| 12:12.13 | calamous1_ | What type of stores sell pay as you go (besides at&t)? |
| 12:16.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2555 10/trunk/src/target/ (2 files in 2 dirs): revert bogus move |
| 12:16.59 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03www-data * r2556 10/trunk/src/target/ (2 files in 2 dirs): revert bogus move |
| 12:19.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:BlueLightning]] [[User:Javiroman]] [[Artwork]] [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1]] |
| 12:19.54 | noidd | Walmart |
| 12:20.17 | noidd | the one I bought has completely anonymous phone |
| 12:20.21 | noidd | pay in cash |
| 12:20.25 | noidd | no registration |
| 12:20.37 | calamous1_ | Nice. I had to give att my name for my prepaid |
| 12:20.39 | noidd | it piggybacks on top of cingular (now at&t) |
| 12:21.12 | noidd | t1nladn1tW |
| 12:21.30 | noidd | time to change that password :-P |
| 12:21.31 | cjb_ie | good password :) |
| 12:21.36 | noidd | thanks :-P |
| 12:21.51 | noidd | note to self - windows focus != sloppy |
| 12:22.10 | noidd | thankfully its for a machine which is not reachable from the outside |
| 12:22.18 | noidd | but still have to change it |
| 12:23.00 | calamous1_ | Hmm. My neo wont seem to turn on this morning |
| 12:23.30 | sandos | that sounds ba |
| 12:23.31 | sandos | bad |
| 12:23.44 | cjb_ie | any chance you've bricked it? |
| 12:24.05 | calamous1_ | It worked fine lastnight. I havnt done any uboot things or anything |
| 12:24.16 | quinton | calamous1_, mine too, i left it plugged into the usb for a while and then i could start it again |
| 12:25.06 | calamous1_ | I'll try that. |
| 12:25.39 | calamous1_ | One cant turn on the phone with the USB cable w/o the batter right? |
| 12:25.46 | quinton | i think that's right |
| 12:26.11 | quinton | i think it's because it needs to negotiate for more power |
| 12:26.48 | cjb_ie | a friend of mine has a (non-moko) phone that won't charge from USB if the battery is too flat |
| 12:27.11 | noidd | yes, that is correct - it doens't power from usb |
| 12:27.19 | quinton | i think that the moko will charge with a dead battery, but really slowly |
| 12:27.39 | noidd | the current version of the moko will charge fast even from flat |
| 12:27.51 | noidd | the previous version had a bug in which it wouldnm'ty charge at all. |
| 12:28.12 | calamous1_ | I wish it had a charge indicator light |
| 12:28.16 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2557 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokoui2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): libmokoui2: bump name and version |
| 12:28.23 | calamous1_ | but there are no LEDs on it what so ever |
| 12:29.11 | cjb_ie | so when my friend's phone got too flat, he had to get a separate charger that you drop the battery into, as there was no other way to charge it. brilliant design decision on the part of the makers, whoever they were. |
| 12:29.44 | noidd | cockup over conspiricy every time |
| 12:30.30 | cjb_ie | "never attribute to malice that which can be ascribed to incompetence", yup |
| 12:30.35 | calamous1_ | I'm going out for breakfast. see you all later. but I would love to hear from a core neo develorer abou the at&t 3g sim cards. They are planning to mass market the divice arn't they? |
| 12:30.42 | Kensan | noidd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_Razor |
| 12:31.30 | quinton | http://xkcd.com/277/ |
| 12:32.24 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2558 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/libmokojournal2/ (7 files in 3 dirs): libmokojournal2: bump library name and version |
| 12:33.17 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178078211.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:36.20 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-27-228.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 12:37.52 | roh | calamous1_ that will be fixed for the mass market. of course. we are already tracking the issue. just takes some time.. its weekend you know ;) |
| 12:38.57 | Bryce_Leo | hey all |
| 12:48.58 | daxxar | doesn't sales@openmoko.org work? |
| 12:48.59 | daxxar | "smtp;550 unknown user" |
| 12:49.12 | Bryce_Leo | trt ,cin |
| 12:49.15 | Bryce_Leo | try .com& |
| 12:49.21 | Bryce_Leo | man it's too early |
| 12:49.27 | Bryce_Leo | try .com |
| 12:49.35 | daxxar | Yeah, already done, just strange that it doesn't atleast forward. :-) |
| 12:50.33 | Bryce_Leo | well it sort of makes sense, the org is for community, and the com is for business, it makes sense to keep the separate |
| 12:53.06 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 12:54.12 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-195-162.netcologne.de) |
| 12:55.04 | *** join/#openmoko rick1 (n=ricky@ppp-70-244-80-189.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 12:55.55 | *** part/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:57.56 | noidd | roh: do we think its a hardware issue? |
| 12:58.13 | roh | noidd no. that would affect other cards as well |
| 12:58.16 | noidd | roh: or software, gsm firmware ? |
| 12:58.43 | roh | i dunno. we will find out |
| 12:59.03 | noidd | if you guys need to be able to replicate the issue let me know |
| 12:59.23 | noidd | i'll either leave my phone up 24/7 so you can ssh into it or ship you a SIM card |
| 12:59.27 | noidd | whichever is easiest for you |
| 13:00.05 | roh | the latter would be the easyiest.. but eventually we can just use another sim of the same manuf. |
| 13:00.17 | noidd | ok, well - the offer is there |
| 13:00.26 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-102-142.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:00.51 | roh | noidd but thanks |
| 13:01.20 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mab3a.m.pppool.de) |
| 13:01.20 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-044.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:02.52 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 13:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko b1303s (i=chatzill@gateway/tor/x-ab670d04954d3ebd) |
| 13:10.32 | *** join/#openmoko superbnerb (n=superbne@CPE0080c8df7759-CM00194757e7b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:10.54 | b1303s | hi |
| 13:11.24 | Bryce_Leo | b1303s: hey |
| 13:12.13 | *** join/#openmoko awu (n=Miranda@port-212-202-174-53.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 13:12.37 | superbnerb | hmm, i too was one of those that used the openmoko and neo1973 interchangably. |
| 13:12.45 | superbnerb | No more. |
| 13:13.24 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: lol worse things have happened |
| 13:13.47 | Bryce_Leo | it's like using PC to mean an intel x86 running windows |
| 13:14.01 | Bryce_Leo | sort of |
| 13:14.15 | superbnerb | Bryce_Leo: you seem like a smart if not accessible guy, do you know if python runs on this bad boy yet... i'm looking as you type |
| 13:14.36 | noidd | superbnerb: yes, python, perl, lua all run fine |
| 13:14.42 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: i thought that python was in the oe tree |
| 13:14.43 | Bryce_Leo | so yes |
| 13:14.51 | Bryce_Leo | haha noidd beat me to it |
| 13:15.02 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: does lua have the gtk bindings in there? |
| 13:15.06 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: do ya know?> |
| 13:15.12 | noidd | erm, I don't know. |
| 13:15.24 | noidd | I do know that i'm building the perl bindings for Gtk for openmoko as we speak |
| 13:15.26 | superbnerb | so if i want to build a web 2.0 app, and port it to this framework, if i write it in python i'd be ahead of the game eh? |
| 13:15.59 | noidd | there isn't a huge amount of cpu on the first version which is the main disadvantage of using perl / python bindings |
| 13:16.11 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: sweet deal |
| 13:16.12 | noidd | it takes a while to initialize the libraries |
| 13:16.14 | jgm|away | Does anyone here actually understand the entire build system? I have some source code that forms a new package I want to add in to the build but can't work out how to get this to work |
| 13:16.40 | zecke | jgm: started creating a BitBake file yet? |
| 13:16.56 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: how do you mean? you mean you're porting a web2.0 app to be offline? |
| 13:16.59 | jgm | zecke: yep (although I'm not entirely sure what should go in it) |
| 13:17.10 | arcanericky | jgm: No - I finally gave up and compile my gtk application last night outside of the build system so I could run it on the neo. |
| 13:17.19 | Kensan | jgm|away: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay |
| 13:17.29 | daxxar | noidd: What about making a modified perl interpreter, kinda like mod_perl, that keeps the interpreter running between sessions, and using dbus to talk to it? :-) |
| 13:17.45 | daxxar | I haven't even looked at how the performance is, or what the issues are, so this is just a wild suggestion with no base in reality. |
| 13:17.53 | noidd | daxxar: there is a package called gtkserver which does just that |
| 13:18.04 | jgm | Kensan: I put it all in quilt so it kept the patch around, but it doesn't seem to want to compile locally it is trying to pull a file down remotely |
| 13:18.08 | jgm | (which doesn't exist) |
| 13:18.09 | superbnerb | Bryce_Leo: In a way, yes. the user would "bring up" the app that is on the phone and it would connect to an online database when they have the active session going. |
| 13:18.10 | daxxar | Oh, you're specifically referring to the gtk libs? |
| 13:18.17 | noidd | you open up a pipe to it and pass widget details back a forward over that |
| 13:18.18 | arcanericky | Thanks Kensan! I'll give that a try! |
| 13:18.19 | daxxar | I thought you meant python/perl in general |
| 13:18.38 | noidd | and that would work using perl, python, ruby, shell etc |
| 13:18.38 | daxxar | Yes, I've read about it :-) |
| 13:19.05 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: interesting idea. You could really write that in any language c/c++, python, perl, as long as you worked out the gui right and negotiated connections correctly |
| 13:19.10 | jgm | zecke: I added an 'openmoko-extensionhandler' task to trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb (in the base group) |
| 13:19.24 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: saves you the hell of trying to get it to format correctly in minimo |
| 13:19.49 | jgm | zecke: And created a trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/openmoko-extensionhandler_svn.bb file with the details that I *think* I need in there |
| 13:20.14 | jgm | But then when it all runs something tries to go fetch a file from a website, which obviously isn't there as the source is all in the tree |
| 13:20.29 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 13:20.35 | noidd | I have a gut feeling we're about to see efl libraries hit the device pretty hard soon |
| 13:21.22 | superbnerb | Bryce_Leo: right, i see minimo is the browser, or one of them for this thing. Yeah, no way i'd want that... not when we have access to the whole OS. |
| 13:22.03 | *** join/#openmoko awu (n=Miranda@port-212-202-174-53.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 13:22.14 | superbnerb | Bryce_Leo: so, if i am writing the app for desktop browsers and for the openmoko platform... i couldn't write that in C if i only wanted to write once, and change the look, could i? |
| 13:22.23 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: but they why build the app as a web2.0 anyway. Why not just make it a local app, that pulls your info from the web if available and if not uses the cached copy on the devices and merges quietly once on line agian? |
| 13:22.29 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:22.47 | noidd | sounds like you're looking for google gears functionality |
| 13:22.54 | *** part/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:23.14 | zecke | jgm: the place looks okay (I assume it is in the BBFILES glob) |
| 13:23.32 | noidd | top |
| 13:23.37 | superbnerb | Bryce_Leo: i also want the same app for "real" browsers, laptops, that kind of thing. Since i haven't started yet, i'm just getting my bearings and gearing up to write. |
| 13:23.42 | superbnerb | or get someone to lol. |
| 13:23.57 | zecke | jgm: the question is what did you inherit and what SRC_URI do you set |
| 13:24.04 | superbnerb | noidd: google gears? Ain't that cheating? lol |
| 13:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A56A6A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:24.49 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: hmm i see what you mean, but if you're going to build a web interface at first why not stick with the same vein and just build multiple web frontends like myapp.com/minimo myapp.com/iphone myapp.com/firefox myapp.com/safari myapp.com/ie7 |
| 13:25.24 | squalyl | hey guys take a look at this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources it's a simpler way to use a local overlay :) |
| 13:25.26 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: that sort of thing, and just keep as many condensed as possible possibly just forward to other directories when you have say the safari and firefox versions displaying properly on both |
| 13:25.46 | daxxar | noidd: efl? |
| 13:25.49 | jgm | zecke: so I set 'inherit openmoko' and don't have a SRC_URI (I copied this from an existing application) |
| 13:26.00 | noidd | code re-use is not cheating although i've not looked at the licence - it may not be compatible with the philosophy of the phone |
| 13:26.08 | noidd | enlightenment foundation libraries |
| 13:26.12 | daxxar | Ah, ok |
| 13:26.22 | zecke | jgm: check classes/openmoko.bbclass it sets a SRC_URI depending on the PN (package name) |
| 13:26.26 | noidd | the enlightenment widget set basically |
| 13:26.48 | squalyl | if your source code is foreign you don't need inherit openmoko, maybe inherit autotools is sufficient |
| 13:26.54 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: wait a sec, is openmoko using evas for display? |
| 13:27.00 | *** join/#openmoko zaery (n=zaery@c-71-202-249-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 13:27.02 | noidd | No |
| 13:27.09 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@AC8E25BB.ipt.aol.com) |
| 13:27.21 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: just a few of the foundation classes? |
| 13:27.25 | noidd | although a version that does wouldn't surprise me at sopme point in the future. Just an opinion :-) |
| 13:27.48 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: haha i completely agree, i think it could be a heck of an interesting project |
| 13:27.52 | daxxar | Your credit card was charged fully, and your order should be proceed when the 2nd batch of shipment arrives FICA between 8/10-15. Thanks. |
| 13:28.24 | woglinde | daxxar it will came |
| 13:28.26 | superbnerb | well microsoft can blow goats... personal feeling of course. that is a good for the browsers but i really want a native openmoko app, just a double click away from the play, you know what i mean. |
| 13:28.29 | woglinde | come |
| 13:28.32 | daxxar | I was charged almost a week ago, so I was hoping I'd be a part of the first shipment. |
| 13:28.35 | daxxar | Oh well. :-) |
| 13:28.50 | daxxar | I guess I've got enough stuff on my mind until then, but I bet shipping & costums will take a bit of time. |
| 13:29.06 | daxxar | Customs* |
| 13:29.15 | superbnerb | costumes too lol |
| 13:29.18 | jgm | Okay giving 'inherit autotools' a go |
| 13:29.23 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: i see what you mean, but consistency is an important part of an app, i mean in the end it's all your call |
| 13:29.53 | superbnerb | Bryce_Leo: you've helped me out a lot man, just this conversation was a good thing for me and my direction. |
| 13:30.20 | superbnerb | topic two, will there be a need for another phone that uses openmoko? |
| 13:30.32 | superbnerb | i.e. what if FIC can't get their act together? |
| 13:30.45 | jgm | It looks like I need to set SRC_URI, should that be every file that I care about or just the .c/.h/.xml files? |
| 13:30.48 | superbnerb | we'd have an OS with no sandbox to play in. |
| 13:32.04 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: haha no problemat all dude |
| 13:32.38 | superbnerb | noidd: google gears needs php and a mysql database.... that ain't in the openmoko is it? i'm looking |
| 13:32.48 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: they've got OM limping on a treo,i'm sure that the HTC hackers will have a version up on theres once the software gets closer to ready |
| 13:32.51 | Kensan | Bryce_Leo,noidd: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/05/efl-related-work/ |
| 13:33.56 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 13:34.27 | noidd | looking |
| 13:34.50 | Bryce_Leo | Kensan: sweet deal, that sounds awesome to me |
| 13:34.57 | superbnerb | now can openmoko be forked into another OS, kinda how ubuntu stole debian and made it better. |
| 13:35.47 | superbnerb | noidd: i didn't find it, no mention of it on the wiki, but they would be too heavy for this phone, no? |
| 13:36.20 | Kensan | Bryce_Leo,noidd: they are also in contact with rasterman: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/06/25/back-from-first-taipei-visit/ |
| 13:36.57 | noidd | aye |
| 13:37.22 | Bryce_Leo | Kensan: that's great news! |
| 13:37.27 | Kensan | noidd: there's also efl related bugzilla entries ;) |
| 13:37.59 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: yes OM can be forked, i doubt it will happen because it's so new. Debian was chosen as the base for ubuntu because the debian unstable is really quite a good place to pull packages. |
| 13:39.22 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 13:39.26 | Bryce_Leo | superbnerb: infact my bet is that after the base OM distro solidifies and begins to be very stable there will be a couple offshoots pushing new functionality (diff WM, widget set, etc) |
| 13:39.33 | noidd | I don't believe for a second that forking openmoko would be a good thing. The core devs are extremely responsive so there really would be no point. |
| 13:39.48 | superbnerb | Bryce_Leo: i'm a conary man, foresight really. debian based OS's aren't packaged that well. too many "others' that you have to take the time to pull over. |
| 13:39.52 | noidd | forking is typically a human issue, not a technical one. |
| 13:40.14 | Tyrael | HI! I Received a Phone call from UPS, they want that I send a mail where I write that the phone respect the CE normatives. |
| 13:40.28 | Tyrael | now, that is true exactly? |
| 13:40.47 | noidd | Tyrael: which country are you in? |
| 13:40.52 | Tyrael | Italy |
| 13:41.12 | superbnerb | if someone can make a buck off the OS, then someone will fork it. |
| 13:41.23 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: i don't think that it woudl be a good thing, but i think you can agree that it is going to be very likely |
| 13:41.27 | Kensan | Tyrael: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ#Has_the_Neo1973_been_through_any_FCC.2FCE_Certification |
| 13:41.33 | superbnerb | plus every current distro will fork because it's a diversification thing. |
| 13:41.45 | superbnerb | all good portfolios diversify. |
| 13:41.46 | noidd | I really don't think it will |
| 13:41.46 | Kensan | Tyrael: ->the phones are CE certified. |
| 13:42.03 | Bryce_Leo | Kensan: you are ridiculously quick at finding those things |
| 13:42.08 | noidd | plus, with our buildsystem we don't need to fork. We can use layman or whatever |
| 13:42.16 | noidd | you want a different distro image? build a .bb for it |
| 13:42.36 | Tyrael | Kansan: thanks! |
| 13:42.40 | Tyrael | Kensan soryy |
| 13:42.47 | Kensan | Bryce_Leo: idling IRC helps too *lol* |
| 13:43.09 | noidd | the same source tree and generate any number of different OS images |
| 13:43.33 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: I can see what you mean i guess, but heh, nothign to do but wait and see |
| 13:43.50 | Bryce_Leo | Kensan: haha i'm sure! |
| 13:44.26 | Bryce_Leo | noidd: that's a really good point, it should be able to be diverse enough not to need to be forked |
| 13:44.30 | robster | superbnerb: i was looking at foresight |
| 13:44.46 | robster | superbnerb :do you know a lot about it/ |
| 13:44.50 | *** join/#openmoko DupliCat (n=andy@ACC8012C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 13:45.03 | robster | urgh, serious lag today |
| 13:45.03 | DupliCat | kl] |
| 13:45.32 | superbnerb | robster: what would you like to know. it's really the only one to use. |
| 13:45.55 | robster | superbnerb: is it possible to create a derivative using the rpath online builder thing? |
| 13:45.55 | superbnerb | ubuntu and all the other "easy to use" ones have enough plebes. |
| 13:45.56 | Kensan | Bryce_Leo: IMHO Openembedded is very flexible which will provide the "framework". Why should vendor fork and do all the "dirty" work themselves when they can maintain their own overlay and just haveto take care of their own packages (BB-Recipes)? |
| 13:46.15 | superbnerb | robster: you mean, build your own distro, yeah it's easier then a mofo |
| 13:46.25 | superbnerb | ok not easy, but it allows you to do it |
| 13:46.45 | superbnerb | signup for your own project man, read the wiki and bob's your uncle, charlie |
| 13:46.59 | noidd | the only real reason I see for a fork would be the change of buildsystem./ |
| 13:47.06 | robster | superbnerb: see, i'm a debian developer but also a gnome hacker and i'm getting pretty exasperated at the brokenness of the combination of the two :-( |
| 13:47.11 | Bryce_Leo | Kensan: yeah, i can see what you mean, but it could always be that someone decides that they can "do better" and tries for it |
| 13:47.12 | noidd | but the buildsystem is great - it just has a steep learning curve |
| 13:47.35 | jgm | noidd: it's a cliff, not a curve |
| 13:47.42 | Bryce_Leo | jgm: very good point |
| 13:48.07 | Kensan | Bryce_Leo: yes and that's the beauty of Opensource. If you think you can do it better, you do it. If you truly are better, the community will recognize that. |
| 13:48.17 | superbnerb | robster: i know that we foresighters get gnome updated quite regularly as ken (the main guy) is somehow connected with the gnome deal |
| 13:48.40 | superbnerb | i just read about gnome 2.18 and i've had it for 4 months now-ish |
| 13:48.51 | *** part/#openmoko noidd (n=red@thievery.criticalintegration.com) |
| 13:48.54 | superbnerb | read in the latest magazine that is |
| 13:49.14 | robster | superbnerb: right, exactly, in fact the tag line for foresight is that is aims to show off gnome & the fd.o stack |
| 13:49.34 | Bryce_Leo | Kensan: haha certainly keeps people on their toes |
| 13:51.05 | DupliCat | my neo just teleported again |
| 13:52.00 | superbnerb | dude, it's great and if you k now about linux and gnome and want to develop with them, they would love to have a man of your ability. they are all really cool and smart gnu guys |
| 13:52.11 | *** join/#openmoko Majorie (n=Majorie@p508CF5A0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:52.34 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DB652.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:52.44 | superbnerb | then you have dipshits like me who ask lame questions, but a guy's got to start somewhere lol, even if i've used linux at home for 2 years now, u ain't never gonna know everything |
| 13:53.18 | superbnerb | what are you doing in here robster? |
| 13:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko noiddd (n=red@thievery.criticalintegration.com) |
| 13:55.24 | robster | superbnerb: i work for o-hand |
| 13:55.29 | Kensan | Bryce_Leo: insightfull ./ comment about forking http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=247725&cid=19810737 |
| 13:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
| 13:56.48 | koen | jgm: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/openmoko-apps/omext_0.2.bb |
| 13:56.53 | superbnerb | o-hand eh? |
| 13:57.47 | superbnerb | well gotta build in some shelves dudes. thanks for the chat |
| 13:58.10 | Bryce_Leo | Kensan: that is a good comment |
| 13:58.30 | jgm | koen: thanks, will give it a go |
| 13:58.36 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 13:59.06 | Bryce_Leo | *still updating tree* does minimo build again or no? |
| 14:02.35 | mmazur | Kensan, it also says something about patents in IT. |
| 14:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko rm (n=rm@osbk-4db55b74.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 14:04.20 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E7E3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:07.57 | arcanericky | I just added an entry in the Hello World howto at the wiki here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_a_hello_world_application#GDK_the_Wrong_.2F_Easy_Way |
| 14:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 14:08.40 | arcanericky | It would be cool if someone were to go through and give it a try and make any corrections needed. It allows someone to get an gdk app / test compiled and running without messing with BB. I think that's good for a learner |
| 14:09.45 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrae1 (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:10.15 | Tyrae1 | argh, the UPS operetor give me wrong email... Now I need to compile a internet form but I need the address of Fic in USA. |
| 14:10.33 | Bryce_Leo | arcanericky: i still think it's important for people to learn bitbake, i should hope that doesn't become a norm! |
| 14:11.54 | arcanericky | I think so also. But when you're learning (if you learn as I do) you learn in baby steps. If people should just jump to bitbake, then they should just skip the command line example that was already there. |
| 14:12.05 | Bryce_Leo | any idea on when cad designs, of the phone case will be up? |
| 14:12.39 | Bryce_Leo | arcanericky: i can see what you mean, i just hope that it doesn't grow out of control! |
| 14:13.47 | Tyrae1 | what is the postal code of California? |
| 14:14.19 | Bryce_Leo | .... california is a state |
| 14:14.24 | arcanericky | As for learning to use bitbake, I noticed that the "Compiling it using bitbake" section is half baked. Maybe you could go through and complete it, giving a more rounded tutorial on how to do it. I'm off to learn to use bitbake now, since that section is rather incomplete. |
| 14:14.32 | Tyrae1 | mmmm |
| 14:14.35 | Tyrae1 | Freemont? |
| 14:15.23 | Bryce_Leo | Tyrae1: umm... googling |
| 14:15.39 | Bryce_Leo | arcanericky: i can see what you mean about it being a bit incomplete |
| 14:16.22 | squalyl | hum "hello world" wiki page is not very precise |
| 14:16.35 | Bryce_Leo | Tyrae1: looks like 94555 |
| 14:16.52 | squalyl | I lack a very important information (I asked more than twice without getting an answer) |
| 14:17.05 | squalyl | How do I do to get a package in the image? |
| 14:17.12 | squalyl | No discussion about this brought solutions |
| 14:17.12 | arcanericky | squalyl: I agree. I've been trying to add to it a bit as I go along (sans bitbake for the moment). What part is not very precise? Maybe I can fix it. |
| 14:17.30 | squalyl | the recipe creation |
| 14:17.41 | squalyl | where, what to put in, how to locate sources etc |
| 14:17.52 | Tyrae1 | not 68025 / 68026? |
| 14:18.06 | squalyl | maybe you can mix your page and mine: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources |
| 14:18.22 | squalyl | I only lack the information to get the package in the image. |
| 14:18.29 | arcanericky | Ah yes. The bitbake part. I'm having trouble with that also - I don't know bitbake, but am trying to learn to update it. |
| 14:18.30 | squalyl | no one seems to be able to explain this to me |
| 14:18.47 | squalyl | my page may partially help you |
| 14:18.49 | Bryce_Leo | Tyrae1: i found a couple different for the same place... i really can't be too sure |
| 14:19.08 | Tyrae1 | Bryce_Leo: ok tnks |
| 14:19.17 | arcanericky | Nice page sqalyl! I'll start working through it - it will definitely help me. |
| 14:19.49 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Building_a_hello_world_application]] [[Terminal]] [[Sound_Field]] [[Sketchbook]] [[Setup_Devices]] [[Server:A-GPS]] [[Search]] [[Sample_Widget]] [[Sample_Native-Finger_Application]] [[S3c2410_boot_usb]] [[Popup_Menu]] [[Picture_Thumbnail_Field]] and other changes |
| 14:20.07 | Bryce_Leo | squalyl: are you using mokomakefile? |
| 14:20.13 | squalyl | no |
| 14:20.18 | squalyl | plain raw build :D |
| 14:20.29 | Bryce_Leo | haha oh boy |
| 14:20.50 | squalyl | (it's just a matter of svn update openmoko;cd build;bitbake openmoko-devel-image ;) ) |
| 14:21.38 | Bryce_Leo | squalyl: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/Using_a_local_overlay check that out and see if that helps |
| 14:22.05 | squalyl | I checked out |
| 14:22.31 | squalyl | I managed to achieve the same with a single local.conf line :) |
| 14:22.47 | Bryce_Leo | hahaha adding to the rdepends? |
| 14:23.03 | squalyl | er... |
| 14:23.48 | squalyl | is that the BBFILE_COLLECTIONS that controls what goes in the rootfs? |
| 14:24.02 | zecke | squalyl: no |
| 14:24.15 | squalyl | My only problem is to put my package in the rootfs |
| 14:24.20 | zecke | squalyl: to see what BBFILE_COLLECTIONS is doing check the BitBake manual and the section about collections |
| 14:24.21 | squalyl | .ipk build works |
| 14:24.53 | Bryce_Leo | squalyl: try adding DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS = "<your app name>" |
| 14:24.57 | Bryce_Leo | to your local.conf |
| 14:25.05 | Bryce_Leo | then do a bitbake task-base -crebuild |
| 14:25.19 | squalyl | If you add a BBFILES+= in build/conf/local.conf, then it's done, you don't need to change BBPATH |
| 14:25.30 | squalyl | BBPATH is for config files, not for bb files |
| 14:25.40 | arcanericky | sqalyl: I've gone ahead and added a link to your page at the end of the hello world page for now. |
| 14:25.49 | squalyl | thanks |
| 14:26.27 | Bryce_Leo | squalyl: setup your build env, and do a bitbake on openmoko-devel-image |
| 14:26.56 | squalyl | I do this every day :) |
| 14:26.58 | squalyl | My problem now is to manage rootfs inclusion. I tried DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS += "mypackage" but it did nothing new |
| 14:27.15 | Bryce_Leo | i don't think the += works |
| 14:27.21 | Bryce_Leo | use just an equals |
| 14:27.24 | squalyl | simple = then? |
| 14:27.26 | Bryce_Leo | yup |
| 14:27.29 | squalyl | ok i'll try |
| 14:28.07 | noiddd | Hmm, I just acquired another 2 SIM cards :-D |
| 14:28.16 | woglinde | hihi |
| 14:28.27 | SpeedEvil | hiho |
| 14:28.36 | Bryce_Leo | heyo |
| 14:28.45 | *** join/#openmoko freepenguin (n=andrea@host30-125-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:28.48 | woglinde | hi speedevil |
| 14:29.58 | Bryce_Leo | squalyl: did you rebuild the task-base after you modified your local.conf? |
| 14:30.27 | Bryce_Leo | squalyl: http://bec-systems.com/web/content/view/59/9/ have you seen this article? |
| 14:30.28 | *** part/#openmoko Tyrae1 (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:33.06 | squalyl | what is task-base? |
| 14:33.09 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@host130-161-static.37-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:33.41 | woglinde | the holy grail |
| 14:33.58 | squalyl | lol |
| 14:34.02 | woglinde | *g* |
| 14:34.08 | squalyl | however, += works, since I use it for BBFILES |
| 14:34.21 | woglinde | no taks-base is the collection of packages so that the device boots up with ssh support |
| 14:35.15 | squalyl | so what? |
| 14:35.27 | squalyl | bitbake task-base will include my package in rootfs? :D |
| 14:36.23 | Bryce_Leo|food | bitbake task-base -crebuild will include your package in rootfs |
| 14:37.10 | squalyl | then, what's the use of openmoko-devel-image? |
| 14:37.37 | woglinde | Bryce_Leo not really |
| 14:37.40 | zecke | squalyl: an image installing task-base? |
| 14:37.43 | Bryce_Leo|food | squalyl: openmoko-devel-images bulids the image from your local sources |
| 14:38.03 | Bryce_Leo|food | rebuilding the task-base adds your app to get built into the base image |
| 14:38.18 | koen | no, 'bitbake task-base -crebuild' will rebuild task-base |
| 14:38.27 | squalyl | I don't get that point |
| 14:38.39 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:38.43 | Bryce_Leo|food | yeah, then i'm confused too, why the two steps? |
| 14:39.32 | Bryce_Leo|food | doesn't it just rebuild your task-bakse bb file? |
| 14:39.39 | Bryce_Leo|food | http://bec-systems.com/web/content/view/59/9/ |
| 14:39.49 | Bryce_Leo|food | At this point you must manually regenerate the task-base ipk file as the system has no way of knowing the contents for task-base have changed as the task-base bb file did not actually change. The best way to do this is to run "bitbake task-base -crebuild". Do not run "bitbake task-base -cclean" as this seems to start cleaning packages that are already built. At this point, if you look at the control file in the task-base |
| 14:40.41 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0FBA5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:40.44 | squalyl | I don't catch the difference between openmoko-devel-image and task-base |
| 14:41.07 | koen | one is an image, the other a task |
| 14:41.48 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 14:44.48 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: i don't see you point. Rebuilding the task base essentially adds whatever you put in DISTRO_PACKAGE_RDEPENDS into the task-base bb file, so why say that "it rebuilds the task base" instead of "it adds your app to get built into the base image" |
| 14:44.55 | squalyl | lol bitbake task-base gives me an ipk file |
| 14:45.42 | koen | Bryce_Leo|food: it adds your DEPENDS in to the ipkg file's Depends: field |
| 14:46.36 | koen | Bryce_Leo|food: see what happens if openmoko doesn't use task-base anymore for its images |
| 14:46.53 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: why would i pull that out? |
| 14:46.54 | koen | then you can rebuild task-base all you want, but it won't add your stuff to the image |
| 14:47.35 | koen | so saying "it rebuilds task-base" is correct, "adds app to image" is misleading |
| 14:48.18 | squalyl | this does nothing I want :( |
| 14:48.30 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: perhaps, but for simplicity's sake it's not too bad. I mean isn't task base a bb file? |
| 14:48.50 | koen | it's a bitbake recipe, yes |
| 14:49.01 | koen | squalyl: go read http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual |
| 14:49.48 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: and if you read the control file for it it tells you exactly what it does which explains why adding an app DEPENDS and rebuildng task base works? |
| 14:50.06 | Kensan | squalyl: this might be of interest: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-July/001043.html |
| 14:50.35 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: i'm just arguing that for simplicity it's easier to say that it adds a package to the image because they clearly haven't began experimenting at that level and by the time they do they'll understand the build system much more thoroughly |
| 14:50.37 | koen | Bryce_Leo|food: reading the control file is pretty useless |
| 14:50.56 | Bryce_Leo|food | Merge machine and distro options to create a basic machine task/package |
| 14:51.01 | Bryce_Leo|food | that's really all ya need |
| 14:51.03 | squalyl | so useful http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual&dpage=commonuse_new_package |
| 14:51.11 | bmidgley | is anyone able to create a contact properly? |
| 14:51.13 | Bryce_Leo|food | then you know what the task-base package does |
| 14:51.31 | squalyl | the mailing list thread did not help. |
| 14:53.10 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=familia@201.244.110.146) |
| 14:53.14 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: we're just arguing details. maybe i just should have explained waht rebuilding the task-base does and why they have to re-build it |
| 14:53.28 | calamous1_ | Woot my neo boots again :) |
| 14:53.30 | koen | right |
| 14:54.19 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: i do perfer simplicity though |
| 14:54.48 | koen | I dislike misleading statements that will end up wasting my time |
| 14:55.13 | squalyl | when the guys decided to add something to openmoko, how did they did it? |
| 14:55.22 | squalyl | take openmoko-rssreader for example |
| 14:55.37 | squalyl | where is the bitbake line that tells 'put me in the rootfs' ? |
| 14:55.45 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: when they don't really grasp the fundaments of OE or bitbake it's all the same |
| 14:55.51 | squalyl | this seems so simple, no one can say me! |
| 14:56.20 | koen | Bryce_Leo|food: and those people will write a zillion wikipages containing misleading info |
| 14:56.44 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: and yet people get further with those than people who write no wiki pages with no info |
| 14:57.04 | koen | you think so? |
| 14:57.32 | koen | my experience is that they get stuck and ask for help later on |
| 14:57.58 | Bryce_Leo|food | koen: if they aren't advanced enough to understand the build system then they'll never remove task-base then they'll never have that problem, we're talking about this one instance not a world of generalaties |
| 14:59.06 | calamous1_ | Has anyone used ipkg on their neo? (if so what repository do you use) |
| 14:59.42 | noiddd | calamous1_: I acquired 2 more SIM cards |
| 15:00.02 | Bryce_leo | koen: and you argue of misleading wikipages but alteast they're trying and when they eventually find the info they need they'll fix the pages. |
| 15:00.15 | noiddd | calamous1_: 1 x 32k Cingular SIM (de-activated I believe) |
| 15:00.28 | noiddd | calamous1_: 1 Pay as you Go from a company called "Tracphone |
| 15:00.38 | noiddd | whcih you buy from the local walmart |
| 15:00.40 | koen | Bryce_leo: my experience is that such pages won't get fixed |
| 15:01.29 | squalyl | So group links to them, and when the related problem will be fixed, we'll correct all related forgotten pages |
| 15:01.35 | Bryce_leo | koen: i guess it all depends. If you keep the people interested so they're still around to learn and develop then they'll fix their pages, but if you don't give them enough to stick with and get hooked on yes they'll leave and not fix/update their wikipages |
| 15:01.37 | squalyl | We really need a clear page about building |
| 15:02.30 | koen | squalyl: the OE usermanual is mtn, send patches |
| 15:03.26 | squalyl | usermanual sucks, they never do what you need |
| 15:03.39 | *** part/#openmoko Majorie (n=Majorie@p508CF5A0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:03.49 | koen | so you complain it sucks and refuse to improve it? |
| 15:03.50 | Bryce_leo | squalyl: now that's not really fair, most usermanauals are quite good if you give the a full reath through |
| 15:04.07 | squalyl | koen> no I want to improve them |
| 15:04.13 | squalyl | so I try |
| 15:04.14 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 15:04.38 | jeddy3 | the openmoko artwork in wiki by Nenadgrujicic looks really professional! |
| 15:05.22 | calamous1_ | Noidd: What has your luck with those sims been? |
| 15:05.42 | Bryce_leo | jeddy3: link? |
| 15:05.49 | jeddy3 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Artwork |
| 15:05.53 | squalyl | given the number of "bitbake manuals" how do I still block with something as simple as getting a package in the image? because no one is clear enough for beginners. |
| 15:06.03 | jeddy3 | Bryce_leo, :D |
| 15:06.08 | kiney | counter |
| 15:06.08 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-27 06:54) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Delivered prob. 75% in 2 days 22:26:55 (2.935±2.9 days) (1782;251) |
| 15:06.20 | koen | squalyl: there's only one bitbake manual, and that's at berlios |
| 15:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.118.148) |
| 15:07.04 | Bryce_leo | jeddy3: holy crap, yeah that is good |
| 15:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mab3a.m.pppool.de) |
| 15:10.19 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-102-142.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:11.04 | noiddd | calamous1_: you there? |
| 15:11.08 | calamous1_ | Yes I'm here |
| 15:11.17 | noiddd | I just tested a 2G cingular sim |
| 15:11.24 | noiddd | same thing ish |
| 15:11.25 | calamous1_ | It worked right? |
| 15:11.36 | noiddd | nope |
| 15:11.49 | noiddd | now testing a third sim from a pay as you go phone |
| 15:11.50 | calamous1_ | Error 10 or 13? |
| 15:11.53 | noiddd | 10 |
| 15:12.15 | calamous1_ | I would say that there is a serious problem with the device if lots of sims arent working |
| 15:12.46 | calamous1_ | Since *I* did not buy the cylapso I can't call texas instruments and injuire about it, but FIC can |
| 15:12.47 | noiddd | I don't think my tests are fair right now |
| 15:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:13.38 | *** join/#openmoko INfected|Frog (n=nenad@77.46.227.140) |
| 15:13.43 | calamous1_ | It would be nice to have someone from FIC explain what it dosent work. If it says SIM card not inserted when it really is, it makes me wonder if something has gone wronge |
| 15:14.32 | calamous1_ | AT+CPBS=SM |
| 15:14.37 | noiddd | Tell you what makes m,e suspicious of my configuration |
| 15:14.45 | calamous1_ | what? |
| 15:14.54 | noiddd | gsmd crashes with the 3G sim on bootup |
| 15:15.03 | noiddd | gsmd does not crash with either of the other two sims |
| 15:15.12 | noiddd | until I issue the AT+CNUM |
| 15:15.16 | noiddd | then it crashes |
| 15:15.20 | calamous1_ | Yes, I have the same problem |
| 15:15.23 | noiddd | I'm building the latest version |
| 15:15.32 | noiddd | should be able to image it within the hour at this rate |
| 15:15.53 | roh | can you please specify exactly which sims work and which dont, best with photos to the bugtickett666? |
| 15:15.55 | calamous1_ | Oh are you building the entire openmoko again, or just GSMD |
| 15:16.18 | roh | because if its all the same manuf. of sims which don't work the solution is propably the same |
| 15:16.18 | arw_ | hello |
| 15:16.18 | arw_ | i'm trying to compilling «pngbook» to qemu |
| 15:16.31 | arw_ | some one has tips? |
| 15:16.35 | calamous1_ | roh: Sure. I have posted that the new at&t 3g "fireball" sims dont work, but the old cingular 2g ones do |
| 15:16.42 | noiddd | roh: once I verify that I have the very latest of everything I will do so |
| 15:16.42 | nenadgrujicic | http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/0/0b/Openmokopreview.jpg |
| 15:16.57 | calamous1_ | roh: I have the numebrs on the sim in the mailling list |
| 15:17.17 | noiddd | here is a question: if the sim is de-activated, should it get a different errror message from 10 |
| 15:17.59 | paroneayea | nenadgrujicic: holy damn |
| 15:18.02 | paroneayea | that art is awesome |
| 15:18.09 | nenadgrujicic | thanx |
| 15:18.40 | paroneayea | you did that? |
| 15:18.42 | paroneayea | nice job |
| 15:18.44 | nenadgrujicic | yes ... |
| 15:18.54 | paroneayea | ah, yeah, I see at the bottom now :) |
| 15:18.55 | nenadgrujicic | im watching your project |
| 15:19.00 | paroneayea | my project??? |
| 15:19.06 | paroneayea | what project? |
| 15:19.07 | nenadgrujicic | open moko |
| 15:19.10 | nenadgrujicic | project |
| 15:19.26 | nenadgrujicic | it very nice, im glad to see open soutce os for handled devices |
| 15:19.27 | calamous1_ | How has the sim been deactivated |
| 15:19.35 | nenadgrujicic | (sorry for my bad engl ;) ) |
| 15:19.36 | paroneayea | oh, you mean the community's. I haven't done anything here yet :) |
| 15:19.56 | paroneayea | nenadgrujicic: that artwork looks like it would integrate well with many common icon styles |
| 15:19.56 | noiddd | upgraded phone had new sim card |
| 15:19.57 | paroneayea | like tango |
| 15:20.03 | calamous1_ | If the service providor just typed in their computer that its service is over it should work fine but when you try to reg the phone on the network it will just say denied |
| 15:20.10 | calamous1_ | The actual sim card should work fine |
| 15:20.12 | noiddd | which is why I am saying I don't blieve its a valid test until I can find out what it should return |
| 15:20.30 | nenadgrujicic | yes it was my primary thing ... |
| 15:20.43 | squalyl | [squalyl@dedibox build]$ find tmp/rootfs/ -name "myhello" |
| 15:20.43 | squalyl | *nothing* |
| 15:20.46 | nenadgrujicic | i think this icons can fit on vista, gnome, kde .... |
| 15:20.54 | roh | bbl |
| 15:22.28 | nenadgrujicic | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Artwork on wiki |
| 15:24.09 | arw_ | a question: |
| 15:24.09 | arw_ | how many development tools has openmoko? |
| 15:24.36 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-195-162.netcologne.de) |
| 15:24.40 | dando | http://62.75.157.44/openmoko/moko_wire_black.png |
| 15:25.38 | paroneayea | arw_: I'm pretty sure it has pygtk :) |
| 15:25.42 | *** join/#openmoko rick1 (n=ricky@ppp-70-249-148-225.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 15:25.53 | arw_ | i'm reading the wiki, but i think that i found three or more |
| 15:26.08 | arw_ | tree |
| 15:27.04 | arw_ | three |
| 15:27.26 | arw_ | paroneayea: pygtk? |
| 15:27.45 | calamous1_ | noiddd: I'm stuck. lol. |
| 15:28.20 | paroneayea | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List#Python_bindings |
| 15:30.35 | paroneayea | does clutter come installed by default with openmoko? |
| 15:30.56 | noiddd | paron: don't understand your question |
| 15:31.08 | *** join/#openmoko BasiC (n=ish@p4FC4D8BA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:31.10 | paroneayea | I mean, the clutter library |
| 15:31.15 | paroneayea | http://clutter-project.org/ |
| 15:32.05 | paroneayea | dumb question I guess. I still haven't figured out if 3d acceleration comes enabled by default |
| 15:32.10 | paroneayea | my phone never shipped :\ |
| 15:32.31 | arw_ | paroneayea: ok, thank you |
| 15:33.39 | borg_ | paroneayea: i think there is no 3d acceleration in the developer version (the one you can buy at the momment) |
| 15:33.44 | borg_ | so clutter makes no sense |
| 15:33.49 | paroneayea | ah |
| 15:36.11 | borg_ | 17:32 < paroneayea> my phone never shipped :\ |
| 15:36.15 | borg_ | you orderd one? |
| 15:36.33 | paroneayea | yeah. i just sent an email asking for updates |
| 15:36.55 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:37.05 | borg_ | they will arrive in europe on monday |
| 15:37.06 | borg_ | i think |
| 15:37.41 | borg_ | from where do you come? |
| 15:37.44 | borg_ | http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?Requester=UPSHome&loc=en_US&HTMLVersion=5.0&tracknum=1Z5VX0386649478929 |
| 15:37.44 | mmazur | Based on what? |
| 15:37.52 | borg_ | based on this :) |
| 15:37.57 | borg_ | mine is in cologne at the momment |
| 15:38.06 | borg_ | ~100km from where i live |
| 15:38.13 | paroneayea | I'm in the US |
| 15:38.14 | borg_ | so it will be here on monday obvioulsy :) |
| 15:38.22 | borg_ | paroneayea: mh |
| 15:38.23 | paroneayea | I never got the confirmation email |
| 15:38.27 | paroneayea | it sounds like everyone else did |
| 15:38.35 | mmazur | borg_, I hate you. |
| 15:38.40 | ScaredyCat | mmazur: mine is in .nl, waitin in customer |
| 15:38.43 | ScaredyCat | customer |
| 15:38.45 | borg_ | mmazur: what have i done? :) |
| 15:38.48 | ScaredyCat | customs! |
| 15:38.54 | mmazur | ScaredyCat, I hate you to. |
| 15:39.24 | ScaredyCat | it got delayed in Kentucky... |
| 15:39.43 | borg_ | mmazur: from where do you come? |
| 15:39.45 | ScaredyCat | now I'll have to pay 20 squillion $ in taxes |
| 15:40.34 | ScaredyCat | borg_: did you get hit for taxes? |
| 15:40.41 | borg_ | ScaredyCat: no |
| 15:40.45 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 15:40.48 | borg_ | should i? |
| 15:40.48 | ScaredyCat | lucky |
| 15:40.53 | ScaredyCat | probably |
| 15:40.56 | borg_ | mh :) |
| 15:42.17 | borg_ | we orderd two in one order to safe shipping costs |
| 15:42.37 | borg_ | i think it even got cheaper then the shop said at the time we ordered it |
| 15:43.25 | borg_ | the shop said something like 100$ shipping costs |
| 15:43.29 | borg_ | Subtotal: $600 USD Shipping: $63.16 USD Total: $663.16 USD |
| 15:43.41 | borg_ | but we only paid ~60$ |
| 15:46.55 | *** join/#openmoko aeXin (n=brootvor@139.84-48-203.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:48.13 | squalyl | YAAAAY |
| 15:48.16 | squalyl | got it! |
| 15:48.23 | squalyl | [squalyl@dedibox build]$ find tmp/rootfs/ -name "myhello" |
| 15:48.24 | squalyl | tmp/rootfs/usr/bin/myhello |
| 15:48.47 | squalyl | so it was: bitbake openmoko-devel-image -crebuild |
| 15:51.34 | Bryce_leo | squalyl: good for you for persisting! feel free to ignore koen at times, he's a brilliant guy, but can be a bit abrasive at times |
| 15:52.09 | squalyl | everyone has his weaknesses, mine is that I never read manuals :D |
| 15:52.57 | squalyl | All my successes up to now with bitbakes comes from my nioob questions on this chan! |
| 15:53.05 | squalyl | so thank you all :) |
| 15:54.57 | arw_ | :) |
| 15:56.07 | Richard | Hi, If I only want to build toolchain in oe, which command should I use? |
| 15:56.25 | woglinde | bitbake gcc-cross |
| 15:56.33 | *** join/#openmoko NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D66A.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 15:56.35 | squalyl | oh cool |
| 15:56.38 | Richard | Thanks |
| 15:56.45 | NeoStrider | hello fellows |
| 15:56.58 | squalyl | once I wrote a makefile to get,unpack,build and install cross compilers |
| 15:57.01 | squalyl | hello |
| 15:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko zaery (n=zaery@c-71-202-249-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:58.22 | woglinde | squalyl what benfit it has? |
| 15:58.30 | zaery | anyone got a python program running on their neo? |
| 15:58.46 | woglinde | zaery why not? |
| 15:58.51 | woglinde | pyhton works on arm |
| 15:58.56 | zaery | oooh, cool |
| 15:59.31 | *** join/#openmoko cninja_ (n=cninja@pcd702156.netvigator.com) |
| 15:59.34 | squalyl | woglinde> It makes it easy to build a cross tools chain for any cpu |
| 15:59.48 | woglinde | squalyl??? |
| 15:59.49 | squalyl | woglinde> similar to crosstools but without glibc |
| 16:00.05 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 16:00.13 | woglinde | I see no benefit |
| 16:00.25 | squalyl | there is none for anyone except me :) |
| 16:00.27 | woglinde | there are a lot of tools for such task |
| 16:00.36 | woglinde | crosstool buildroot and oe |
| 16:00.42 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@user-0cdf9ou.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 16:00.44 | squalyl | yes of course |
| 16:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko DupliCat (n=andy@ACC8012C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 16:01.03 | squalyl | it mainly helped me to understand how it works :) |
| 16:01.29 | DupliCat | bugger |
| 16:01.35 | woglinde | zaery you maybee want read this http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/06/pythong-bindings-where-is-source.html |
| 16:01.38 | DupliCat | missed all that |
| 16:03.26 | *** join/#openmoko hhf423_ (n=chatzill@A743b.a.strato-dslnet.de) |
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| 16:12.44 | SpeedEvil | borg_: they were going to use FEDEX. |
| 16:12.53 | SpeedEvil | borg_: they eventually went with UPS. |
| 16:12.59 | SpeedEvil | borg_: which was cheaper. |
| 16:13.09 | borg_ | ok :) |
| 16:14.36 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host22-122-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:18.42 | clare | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[User_talk:Speedevil]] [[Talk:Artwork]] |
| 16:25.23 | *** join/#openmoko lynx_ (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 16:29.31 | Bryce_leo | SpeedEvil: F*ing fedex stole a package from me |
| 16:30.29 | SpeedEvil | freelock: some 10G |
| 16:30.33 | freelock | 3 days in a row, it's failed to build because I've run out... |
| 16:30.45 | freelock | 10G! I cleared out 4G last night... |
| 16:30.46 | squalyl | please be patient :) |
| 16:30.47 | SpeedEvil | Bryce_leo: tracking: 12:34 - we stole it - hahaha. |
| 16:31.02 | roh | freelock i would assume about 12-14gb total |
| 16:31.08 | squalyl | freelock > yeah it's multi GB |
| 16:31.29 | freelock | Yikes. I'm going to need to get an external drive set up for that... |
| 16:31.41 | squalyl | (this is really huge :D) |
| 16:31.45 | Bryce_leo | SpeedEvil: lol not quite, it hung in TN for 4 days after it was recieved and on top of that, it went in at 7.6 came to me at 2.4 |
| 16:32.30 | woglinde | better think about debian |
| 16:32.36 | squalyl | lol |
| 16:32.39 | woglinde | and all archs |
| 16:32.42 | woglinde | there you go |
| 16:32.44 | squalyl | :) |
| 16:33.12 | freelock | You know, I'd really like to be able to just focus on a few packages at a time... |
| 16:33.17 | squalyl | It uses 12G here |
| 16:33.23 | woglinde | but you have luck sparc32 is removed |
| 16:33.27 | woglinde | so one arch lesser |
| 16:33.43 | freelock | Is there a guide to setting up what might be necessary to get an environment set up to build an ipkg file without the entire image? |
| 16:34.05 | freelock | 12G. no wonder I haven't gotten it to build... |
| 16:34.10 | squalyl | I guess running bitbake <package> will not build the entire distro :) |
| 16:34.39 | roh | squalyl no. worse.. all dependencys for <package> and then <package> |
| 16:34.51 | woglinde | run bitbake -g |
| 16:35.02 | woglinde | and look at the dependcies-graph |
| 16:35.29 | SpeedEvil | CEO of O2 on 3G uptake on R4 ATM |
| 16:35.33 | SpeedEvil | radio4 - uk |
| 16:36.25 | daxxar | Can qemu run as the same arch that Neo does? |
| 16:36.42 | daxxar | (so that if you compile for the Neo, you don't have to recompile for a qemu image) |
| 16:36.48 | squalyl | qemu emulates an arm |
| 16:36.55 | squalyl | and runs the rootfs image |
| 16:37.08 | squalyl | without any change |
| 16:37.52 | daxxar | Great |
| 16:39.07 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DB652.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:40.21 | squalyl | so, what do you think of this now? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources |
| 16:41.31 | squalyl | I explained everything, every blocking point for me. Anything to add, clarify, correct? |
| 16:42.48 | koen | it's full of crap and needlesly duplicates info |
| 16:43.17 | koen | never *ever* set SRCDATE=now inside a recipe |
| 16:43.24 | *** join/#openmoko pengwen_ (n=pengwen@210.80-203-38.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:43.33 | koen | just rebuilding the image won't magically include your package |
| 16:43.53 | koen | the sample recipes don't conform to the style guide |
| 16:44.06 | koen | the smaple recipes aren't even valid due to improper quoting |
| 16:44.48 | Richard | is arm926ejs armv4 or armv5? |
| 16:44.59 | LaF0rge | richard: 926ejs is armv5 |
| 16:45.05 | koen | Richard: armv5te |
| 16:45.12 | LaF0rge | richard: but neo1973 is arm920 == armv4 |
| 16:45.20 | koen | no |
| 16:45.24 | *** join/#openmoko kiney_ (n=kiney@p54883BCF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:45.27 | koen | it's arm920t |
| 16:45.32 | koen | which is armv4t |
| 16:45.36 | LaF0rge | yes, with thumb ;) |
| 16:45.54 | Richard | Thanks, LaFOrge and Koen. |
| 16:46.03 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x182.ouraynet.com) |
| 16:46.47 | LaF0rge | who cares about thumb anyway |
| 16:47.13 | koen | EABI |
| 16:47.20 | squalyl | koen> OK, thanks for the help -_- |
| 16:47.27 | DupliCat | nice to see your constructive critisim koen |
| 16:47.45 | LaF0rge | koen: I thought more about as in 'who uses it in the linux world' |
| 16:48.05 | Richard | EABI is soft things or hardware things? |
| 16:48.10 | *** join/#openmoko Chairboy (n=chatzill@c-24-22-81-82.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 16:48.16 | koen | LaF0rge: due to eabi mandating 'bx', a lot of people |
| 16:48.44 | DupliCat | squalyl: imho it doesn't duplicate, it just replaces the badly done previous stuff |
| 16:49.20 | squalyl | The only thing I duplicate is the instructions to get an OM build tree. I can remove that. |
| 16:49.35 | DupliCat | I'd keep it... |
| 16:49.44 | squalyl | ok |
| 16:49.53 | DupliCat | unless you want for force somone to go to the other page ;) |
| 16:49.57 | squalyl | About the recipe syntax, please notice that it's not designed to be included in the openmoko tree, but rather to be kept as a local overlay |
| 16:49.58 | koen | squalyl: you also duplicate a lot of sections in http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual |
| 16:50.04 | koen | in a *bad* way |
| 16:50.22 | DupliCat | that openembedded stuff is fucked up |
| 16:50.30 | koen | squalyl: writing invalid syntax is wrong, whichever way you load it |
| 16:50.38 | squalyl | so what do you suggest? |
| 16:50.52 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FC837.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:51.00 | squalyl | Where am I incorrect ? |
| 16:51.23 | koen | in almost the complete page |
| 16:51.33 | squalyl | my conclusion is "it works" but if you can improve the thing, you're welcome ! |
| 16:51.53 | squalyl | I only written what I found with my limited knowledge of all this stuff |
| 16:52.05 | squalyl | *wrote |
| 16:53.02 | squalyl | If the wrong part is about versionning etc... then I can remove it, it's not important in this page. |
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| 16:54.28 | DupliCat | SpeedEvil: did he say anything of note? |
| 16:54.38 | SpeedEvil | zWho? |
| 16:54.45 | DupliCat | o2 ceo |
| 16:54.46 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 16:55.00 | SpeedEvil | Umm. |
| 16:55.22 | SpeedEvil | 600e/year of non-SMS data traffic revenue |
| 16:55.29 | SpeedEvil | was about it |
| 16:55.44 | DupliCat | hurrumph |
| 16:55.48 | SpeedEvil | 600Me |
| 16:56.15 | datachomper | How big, physically is the neo? Would it fit in a pocket? |
| 16:56.25 | mmazur | Of a skater? Sure. |
| 16:57.09 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: What happened to the order? |
| 16:57.49 | datachomper | do skaters have bigger pockets? |
| 16:59.11 | Aria | Yes, they do. |
| 16:59.15 | Aria | It's big, but not ginormous |
| 16:59.18 | DupliCat | big enough for a small car |
| 17:00.22 | *** join/#openmoko awu (n=Miranda@port-212-202-174-53.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 17:01.07 | Aria | Big enough to swipe a case of beer from a store without anyone noticing. |
| 17:01.28 | datachomper | They should list that as a feature. |
| 17:05.09 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 17:06.23 | squalyl | bye, good evening everyone :) |
| 17:06.26 | *** part/#openmoko squalyl (n=squalyl@116.96.70-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 17:07.35 | *** part/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
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| 17:10.55 | DupliCat | bye |
| 17:11.01 | DupliCat | erm.. gah |
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| 17:17.08 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: OpenMoko future. |
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| 17:57.14 | jadams | anyone sit on here talking about the SH1 they received? Or is everyone playing with theirs? |
| 17:58.00 | SpeedEvil | There are a few who have. |
| 17:58.02 | SpeedEvil | 10? |
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| 18:06.41 | zaery | how would i compile "hello.cpp" for my neo, for my laptop, the command is "g++ hello.cpp", but thats for pentiums |
| 18:06.55 | Aria | arm-linux-g++ hello.cpp ? |
| 18:07.04 | zaery | ill try that, thx |
| 18:10.31 | zaery | -sh: arm-linux-g++: not found |
| 18:10.35 | zaery | is all i get |
| 18:11.14 | Aria | Then you need a cross-compiler built and installed. |
| 18:11.17 | Aria | And cross libraries. |
| 18:11.39 | Aria | Which mokomakefile builds, though you probably have to path-hack to use them. |
| 18:11.51 | Aria | Or your distro might provide them, though watch out for arm-eabi vs arm stuff. |
| 18:12.27 | zaery | do you know if ubuntu 7.04 provides them? |
| 18:14.21 | Aria | zaery: I don't believe it does, but you could search synaptic. Also see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-June/000995.html |
| 18:14.46 | jadams | zaery: try here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=360877 |
| 18:15.58 | jadams | zaery: nm no good info there |
| 18:16.52 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@ACC8012C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:17.21 | Bryce_leo | zaery: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshiloh |
| 18:17.34 | Bryce_leo | zaery: this is everything you need to setup the entire build system |
| 18:18.14 | zaery | cool, thx |
| 18:18.16 | noiddd | bah, out of disk space with build |
| 18:18.35 | noiddd | how much space should I dedicate? 8G is not enough - how about 80G? |
| 18:18.40 | Bryce_leo | then check out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Create_a_package_from_existing_sources to get you started. It's useful if you don't know OE or bitbake and are kind of lost. Koen hates it, but it's a good kickstart, however nothing substitues for learning Open Embedded |
| 18:18.48 | noiddd | I'm not at work so can't do a df on my machine there |
| 18:18.49 | Bryce_leo | noiddd: i'd dedicate 15 gb |
| 18:19.49 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[Main_Page/ro]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Vienna]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Artwork]] [[Talk:Artwork]] [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Nenadgrujicic]] |
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| 18:21.04 | abraxa_ | noiddd: Did you add the "delete temporary build files" setting to your local.conf? |
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| 18:25.18 | Elrond | HI abraxa_ :) |
| 18:25.57 | jgm | Wow... it appears that I managed to get my source packaged up and included on the image. Very exciting |
| 18:26.18 | jgm | (I'm still not quite sure *how* I did it, but I figure that if I don't touch anything it'll keep working) |
| 18:26.20 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - BTW: The /sys/.../gsm-power thing only asks the gsm module to not consume any power on GTA01. The gsm module is AFAIK connected straight to the battery. |
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| 18:34.54 | Bryce_leo | jgm: haha congrats to ya! |
| 18:35.53 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
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| 18:36.11 | BryceLeo | it's always a weird day when X crashes |
| 18:36.32 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-27-228.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 18:36.55 | Aria | Yep. |
| 18:44.06 | abraxa_ | Elrond: Wow, you're already home? That was fast :) |
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| 18:59.03 | woglinde | hm |
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| 19:01.50 | Elrond | abraxa_ - NooN still needs some time ;-) |
| 19:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko noon (n=noon@p57B2664F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:04.05 | noon | hello |
| 19:04.20 | *** join/#openmoko alep1 (n=aleph@190.49.109.46) |
| 19:04.37 | BryceLeo | allo |
| 19:04.50 | *** join/#openmoko dTx (n=user@adsl-69-149-186-230.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net) |
| 19:04.51 | mokobot | Please don't let this man torture me. |
| 19:08.03 | abraxa_ | Elrond: Classic. :D |
| 19:08.08 | abraxa_ | And heya noon! |
| 19:09.14 | noon | jep. back at home, finally |
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| 19:12.48 | Elrond | hmpf. buildhost did not rebuild openmoko-panel-mainmenu :-( |
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| 19:22.16 | noon | has gtk some sort of alphachannel? |
| 19:22.51 | woglinde | hm yes |
| 19:22.56 | woglinde | but dont know for 100% |
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| 19:25.32 | Frostshoc | are there any more openmoko irc channels? |
| 19:26.06 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r_ (n=Rac0r@p5081D862.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:26.44 | BryceLeo | noon http://plan99.net/~mike/blog/?p=38 |
| 19:26.53 | BryceLeo | noon: that should cover what you want |
| 19:26.53 | woglinde | frostshoc only for fic employees I guess |
| 19:27.04 | woglinde | Frostshoc why you are aksing? |
| 19:27.34 | Frostshoc | just woundering |
| 19:27.51 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.26 | Frostshoc | dunno.. :) |
| 19:28.49 | Frostshoc | im really interested in coding for openmoko.. to bad the phone isnt usable :P |
| 19:29.20 | woglinde | hm? |
| 19:29.32 | woglinde | its useable for codin |
| 19:29.33 | woglinde | g |
| 19:29.35 | Frostshoc | the stylus have to be embedded for me to be able to use it |
| 19:30.41 | Frostshoc | will drive me nuts, missplacing it.. it has to attach to the phone :P |
| 19:32.33 | Frostshoc | whats the plan for downloaded apps/installation directories? |
| 19:34.22 | sannes | Frostshoc: you can attach it with a string to your phone, then you won't lose it :P |
| 19:35.08 | woglinde | frosthoc backend ipkg |
| 19:35.15 | woglinde | fronend graphical |
| 19:35.22 | woglinde | frontend |
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| 19:36.33 | Frostshoc | ok |
| 19:36.55 | Frostshoc | anyone working on a sdk? |
| 19:38.19 | noon | BryceLeo: I want something for compilers and optimization? |
| 19:38.55 | ScaredyCat | Frostshoc: tie it to your mittens.. |
| 19:39.26 | Frostshoc | ScaredyCat: now that wouldnt be very practical |
| 19:40.15 | SpeedEvil | Frostshoc: there are those flip-down stylus rings. |
| 19:40.34 | Frostshoc | rubberbands? |
| 19:40.39 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 19:40.59 | SpeedEvil | Ring on your finger, with a little 3cm stylus on it. |
| 19:41.10 | SpeedEvil | Stylus flips down and extends beyond finger. |
| 19:41.14 | Frostshoc | hehe |
| 19:41.54 | Frostshoc | someone should construct "openmoko-sdk.tar.gz" |
| 19:41.55 | ScaredyCat | yeah, you could also use it to inject poison into people |
| 19:42.02 | Elrond | Well, my fingernail work fine as stylus. ;-) |
| 19:42.59 | ScaredyCat | touch openmoko-sdk.tar.gz |
| 19:43.28 | BryceLeo | noon: i thought you were looking for alpha channel?> |
| 19:44.17 | BryceLeo | anyone know when they'll have case dimensions and spec up, that way hardware mods can get started? |
| 19:44.50 | SpeedEvil | Sounds like when someone gets out the micrometer. |
| 19:44.54 | Frostshoc | wget http://www.openmoko.org/openmoko-sdk.tar.gz;tar -zxf openmoko-sdk.tar.gz;cd openmoko.sdk.tar.gz;make |
| 19:45.02 | Frostshoc | now shouldnt that be great? |
| 19:45.11 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil: you're kidding me.... |
| 19:45.31 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil: that's ludacris, so the whole f*ing device is open but the case design? |
| 19:45.46 | BryceLeo | is wanting to put in a stylus holder such a bad thing |
| 19:45.56 | BryceLeo | gaffers tape only does so much |
| 19:47.04 | SpeedEvil | http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/finger_tip_styli_comparison_review |
| 19:47.17 | SpeedEvil | The software is open. |
| 19:47.21 | SpeedEvil | The hardware is not. |
| 19:48.38 | Frostshoc | id rather use a screwdriver |
| 19:50.02 | Frostshoc | have anyone in this channel done anything useful yet? |
| 19:50.48 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:50.58 | woglinde | hi Stephmw |
| 19:51.06 | jgm | Umm... sorry this is IRC. If people were doing something useful they wouldn't be here, would they? Sheesh... |
| 19:51.18 | BryceLeo | jgm ftw |
| 19:51.20 | Stephmw | hey, hey |
| 19:51.22 | borg_ | :P |
| 19:51.41 | Stephmw | woglinde: things going well with Guillaume? |
| 19:51.56 | woglinde | stephmw yes |
| 19:52.13 | woglinde | we have spotted same issues with qt |
| 19:52.18 | woglinde | and solved them |
| 19:52.25 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:52.35 | woglinde | and than I will check the rest |
| 19:52.39 | woglinde | in |
| 19:52.53 | Stephmw | woglinde: great - I have 2 weeks of work left, so I'll finish just in time to enjoy all your hard work :) |
| 19:54.13 | Frostshoc | woglinde: nice |
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| 20:13.37 | noon | BryceLeo: I'am but the article you gave me covers compilers. or didn't I get it? |
| 20:14.25 | BryceLeo | noon: http://plan99.net/~mike/files/alphademo.c |
| 20:14.56 | BryceLeo | noon: that code should give you a good run down |
| 20:15.10 | BryceLeo | noon: there is a python version if you interested |
| 20:15.40 | noon | yes, I'm. |
| 20:15.51 | noon | pygtk is nice and easy :-) |
| 20:16.39 | BryceLeo | noon: haha yes it is isn't it |
| 20:18.33 | noon | if you put some glade into the soupe and only do a 'normal' application without fancy graphics, it is |
| 20:18.55 | *** join/#openmoko Majorie (n=Majorie@p508CDF66.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:19.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[640x480]] [[Artwork]] [[Talk:Openstreetmap]] [[Talk:Hear_Me_FIC]] [[User_talk:Abraxa]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Extra_storage]] [[Hardware:Neo1973:Alternate_Cases:Digital_gaming]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] |
| 20:19.39 | BryceLeo | i've never actually used glade... |
| 20:19.54 | BryceLeo | but i'd imagine so |
| 20:21.03 | noon | glade is really nice. like borland builder you can 'click' your gui together and the rest are callbacks to python |
| 20:21.58 | BryceLeo | that sounds nice, i've never really had a problem designeing by hand |
| 20:23.36 | noon | it's not a problem, but it makes the designing easier and faster. there is an editor to make the xml for glade. so you can see what you do |
| 20:24.36 | BryceLeo | noon: that's a pretty neat tool, i've always been old school with my design tools, emacs works wonders for a project and if i'm just editing a couple files vi is great |
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| 20:34.24 | noon | BryceLeo: vi(m) is my editor of choice. I like it |
| 20:34.48 | BryceLeo | noon: vim is a good editor, i'm still a big emacs fan though |
| 20:35.50 | hena | emacs all the wat |
| 20:35.50 | hena | way |
| 20:35.51 | orzo | vim here |
| 20:35.57 | orzo | over emacs |
| 20:36.50 | noon | <-- shuts up befor there is an other editor war |
| 20:36.57 | BryceLeo | hahahaha, woahhh i didn't want an editor war |
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| 20:37.22 | orzo_ | heh |
| 20:37.27 | BryceLeo | i'm pretty much editor agnostic, i like a little bit from each |
| 20:37.54 | orzo_ | i think the editor you know is the one thats best |
| 20:38.27 | orzo_ | i suppose emacs does a vi-mode but it doesnt take the important stuff last i tried it |
| 20:38.49 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: How was the meeting with mickey|NeoMeetin? |
| 20:38.51 | orzo_ | important to me i mean |
| 20:39.06 | noon | hihi |
| 20:39.18 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Very nice :-)) |
| 20:39.33 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: How do you like the new GUI? |
| 20:39.59 | stefan_schmidt | Still many rough edges but much better to use with a thumb |
| 20:40.18 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - It's much better. But I think, the stylus apps shouldn't die out. :) |
| 20:40.27 | BryceLeo | orzo_: i know what you mean |
| 20:40.47 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: For sure not. Just the essential stuff must be finger based |
| 20:41.15 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Yep. pavel and I knew that for months. ;o) |
| 20:41.27 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Sliding the list with the thumb is kicking ass. :) |
| 20:41.37 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 20:41.37 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
| 20:41.41 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: We know that, too. :) |
| 20:42.02 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Some people didn't ;o) |
| 20:42.20 | noon | stefan_schmidt: does the scrolling also work from left<->right? |
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| 20:43.01 | stefan_schmidt | noon: We have no windows bigger then the screen wide atm |
| 20:43.08 | stefan_schmidt | noon: :) |
| 20:43.40 | stefan_schmidt | noon: I would need to ask chris for details on it. But good question. |
| 20:43.49 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - mickey was a bit surprised how useable (from speed point of view) python/pygtk is on the device. :-) |
| 20:44.08 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: heh, he loves python |
| 20:44.44 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: How many people were there? |
| 20:44.58 | Elrond | hehe, he didn't admit his love to python. ;-) |
| 20:45.12 | Elrond | three humans, one elv ;o) |
| 20:45.25 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 20:45.58 | noon | Elrond: are you sure there where 3 _humans_? |
| 20:46.45 | Elrond | noon - Somewhat. ;-) |
| 20:52.27 | noon | does somebody knows when mickey is back? |
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| 21:48.03 | noon | how do I make a patch with binary data in svn? |
| 21:49.53 | Elrond | .diff can't handle binary data. Just .tar.gz the binary parts. |
| 21:50.28 | daxxar | Hm, that's an interesting question, since svn handles binary diffs internally. |
| 21:50.43 | daxxar | I wonder if they allow you to extract/apply binary patches unrelated of the repo |
| 21:51.40 | PSy0rz | svn diff --help |
| 21:51.40 | PSy0rz | ? |
| 21:52.16 | Linux_Galore | ello' moko nuts |
| 21:52.44 | calamous1_ | Hey Linux_Galore |
| 21:55.46 | ScaredyCat | why oh why do people call it Asterix .... |
| 21:55.56 | ScaredyCat | it's not difficult to get right |
| 21:56.05 | sandos | asterisk damit! ;) |
| 21:56.06 | sandos | * |
| 21:56.09 | sandos | thats it- |
| 21:56.38 | sandos | I _did_ have a very hard time with in the beginning though, "asterisk" exists in Swedish but is not very common thing to say |
| 21:56.54 | sandos | asterix is much more common.. we have another word for * instead of asterisk |
| 21:57.03 | sandos | thats much more popular basically |
| 21:57.51 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89mob (n=ewanm89m@future-is.orange.co.uk) |
| 21:57.51 | mokobot | Hello Master |
| 21:59.24 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but in the beginning it was excuseable, but it's been round for an age now... and quite frankly, if you're recommending something, you should actually know what it is |
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| 22:00.29 | tnt_ | Does anyone know the exact model of the gsm digital base band ? (HERCOM400G2 ?) |
| 22:01.32 | Linux_Galore | when I see the word Asterix that brings back memories |
| 22:02.19 | ScaredyCat | days in the forrests of France? |
| 22:02.31 | sandos | =) |
| 22:03.10 | Linux_Galore | naw, fighting romans eating wild boar travelling the oceans |
| 22:03.25 | Linux_Galore | wait!........ |
| 22:03.50 | ScaredyCat | [pause] |
| 22:04.03 | BryceLeo | [ctrl] [break] |
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| 22:07.23 | Linux_Galore | <blinks> |
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| 22:18.40 | Psi_ | "PKG DELAY-ADD'L SECURITY CHECK BY GOV'T OR OTHER AGENCY- BEYOND UPS CONTROL" |
| 22:19.05 | roh | Psi_ ? |
| 22:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 22:19.24 | Psi_ | its the latest tracking stage for my phone |
| 22:19.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Artwork]] [[Create_a_package_from_existing_sources]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] |
| 22:19.32 | SpeedEvil | wHERE INOT? |
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| 22:19.36 | SpeedEvil | Where into? |
| 22:19.46 | SpeedEvil | psi |
| 22:20.07 | Psi_ | ya |
| 22:20.26 | SpeedEvil | Into which country is it being shipped? |
| 22:20.29 | Psi_ | NZ |
| 22:21.23 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 22:21.32 | Psi_ | anyone else who is getting it shipped intl get that ? |
| 22:21.32 | ScaredyCat | must think it's a bomb.. |
| 22:22.00 | ScaredyCat | you'll get the bits after it's been safely detonated... |
| 22:22.05 | Psi_ | heh |
| 22:22.55 | SpeedEvil | Naah. They've learned from the internet. |
| 22:23.08 | SpeedEvil | To test if a package is safe they just try to blend it. |
| 22:23.16 | Psi_ | heh |
| 22:24.36 | Psi_ | ive often wondered if they take the battery out before blending stuff, i mean LiPo's do tend to explode if you puncture them |
| 22:25.22 | SpeedEvil | Explode is a bit of an exaggeration. |
| 22:25.42 | SpeedEvil | They get very hot and may burst into flames. |
| 22:25.56 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 22:26.11 | SpeedEvil | But, if you actually blended one along with other stuff, you will break it up into lots of bits, and dilute it, so it may not get that warm. |
| 22:26.30 | Psi_ | but large, very hot and menacing looking flames though |
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| 22:27.00 | ynezz | tnt_: that info is under nda probably also :p |
| 22:27.06 | SpeedEvil | Consider that you're releasing - in the neos case - some 15000J. |
| 22:27.11 | SpeedEvil | If you blended it. |
| 22:27.20 | SpeedEvil | The total weight is some 200g. |
| 22:27.37 | SpeedEvil | The heat capacity will be around 500J/Kg/K |
| 22:28.02 | SpeedEvil | Or 100J/Neo/K |
| 22:28.26 | SpeedEvil | So - maybe 150C or so. |
| 22:28.48 | SpeedEvil | Probably not enough to set it on fire. |
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| 22:29.59 | Psi_ | heh |
| 22:30.05 | Psi_ | dont blend a neo |
| 22:31.03 | Psi_ | i laugh though, if someone tried and it jammed/blewup the blender. Neo 1 , iPhone 0 |
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| 22:41.56 | doc|home | heh |
| 22:42.16 | doc|home | Psi_: the ipod they blended was powered on |
| 22:42.25 | Psi_ | oh, true |
| 22:42.42 | Psi_ | except it didnt look very real to me, it stayed lit up for ages |
| 22:54.09 | LetoTo | did the wiki get its userbase nuked? |
| 22:54.14 | LetoTo | looks like my user doesnt exist anymore? |
| 22:54.27 | SpeedEvil | Shouldn't have. |
| 22:55.43 | LetoTo | case sensitiev usernames suck :P |
| 22:58.00 | markit | I've read in this channel that you were talking about a new user interface... any screenshot? |
| 22:58.01 | happycube | bl-4c works in the neo! |
| 22:58.13 | happycube | (the default battery overdrained even though i turned it "off") |
| 22:58.23 | happycube | thankfully i have a nokia 6103i... |
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| 23:02.30 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
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| 23:27.08 | LetoTo | cool. the fedora xoo package now contains the neo skins |
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| 23:41.11 | thomasg_ | what does "lab host" mean? |
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| 23:43.18 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> wiki.openmoko.org | Store: www.openmoko.com | Received Neo1973? See [[SH1]] | SH1 has at least partially shipped, you might have received tracking number (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008010.html ) If you have hardware: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Unresolved_Hardware_Questions |
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