| 00:00.26 | pavelm | layout (each qwety row split into two rows) did not work too well :-( |
| 00:00.55 | Elrond | I thihk, I tried http://heavens-above.com/ and did not get all GPS sats. |
| 00:01.16 | SpeedEvil | I think you have to enter the right search-terms. |
| 00:01.34 | ckuethe | http://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/components/prods.html <--- ultra-rapid orbits with 5cm precision |
| 00:01.39 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: have you tried left of keyboard above, right beloww? not interleaving. |
| 00:02.08 | ckuethe | hand if you are doing surveys, i suppose |
| 00:02.52 | pavelm | speed: Hmm... will try that. |
| 00:02.55 | pavelm | I thought about |
| 00:03.01 | pavelm | qetuo |
| 00:03.04 | pavelm | wryip |
| 00:03.11 | pavelm | adgjl |
| 00:03.12 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 00:03.16 | pavelm | sfhk; |
| 00:03.22 | *** part/#openmoko IR2 (n=rmoreira@87-196-90-82.net.novis.pt) |
| 00:03.23 | pavelm | layout, but yours is probably less evil. |
| 00:03.29 | Vegar | is it possible to get coordinates from google maps? |
| 00:03.30 | SpeedEvil | I think that would be too confusing |
| 00:03.34 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: yes |
| 00:03.43 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: link this page - up at the top |
| 00:03.51 | SpeedEvil | now, inspect hte URL |
| 00:03.57 | SpeedEvil | you will find two numerics |
| 00:04.10 | SpeedEvil | ll=56.033;38.4 or something |
| 00:04.13 | SpeedEvil | it's those |
| 00:04.28 | Vegar | sll and sspn |
| 00:04.52 | Elrond | I think, ll, not sll. |
| 00:05.11 | Vegar | nope, not there |
| 00:05.12 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-47-179.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 00:07.59 | ckuethe | gps would be so much simpler if everyone had good clocks |
| 00:08.31 | pavelm | speed: Hmm... So I tried that layout. It somehow works. |
| 00:08.39 | SpeedEvil | pavelm :) |
| 00:08.43 | ckuethe | i guess that's one of the benefits of AGPS inside a cellphone... time can be maintained on the handset by the network |
| 00:08.46 | pavelm | ...but by now I'm not sure which one is the best. |
| 00:09.23 | ckuethe | depending on my mood i alternate between my wwv radio watch and my purely mechanical watch |
| 00:09.32 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: It's not that onorous. |
| 00:10.21 | ckuethe | i didn't say it was onerous, just that the network already steers the handset's clock to some semblance of accuracy and stability... which aids in gps signal tracking |
| 00:10.35 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: you have to power up the GPS every 5 min for 1s to keep it able to position accurately in 1s. |
| 00:10.45 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Hmm, I'll take a nice chronometer too ;-) |
| 00:10.59 | Elrond | ... as long, as it works happily in large magnetic fields. ;-) |
| 00:10.59 | SpeedEvil | I was thinking of the original one. |
| 00:11.12 | SpeedEvil | A yard square, in a beautiful wooden box. |
| 00:13.57 | pavelm | (I guess it is still more precise than Marine Chronometer?) |
| 00:14.05 | pavelm | (and certainly more practical :-) |
| 00:14.08 | SpeedEvil | Certainly. |
| 00:14.16 | pavelm | (but I guess Marine Chronometer is just beatiful :-) |
| 00:14.44 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_prize |
| 00:14.52 | SpeedEvil | Though you probably know it. |
| 00:15.08 | pavelm | yep, I heard about it before. |
| 00:15.17 | pavelm | anyway, good night! |
| 00:16.18 | SpeedEvil | night |
| 00:16.54 | Elrond | Good night, pavelm |
| 00:18.20 | SpeedEvil | Hey - I didn't realise that in the process of inventing the clock, Harrison also invented the caged roller bearing. |
| 00:18.42 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:26.42 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-71-98.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 00:33.24 | *** join/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 00:34.35 | Elrond | hmpf. The one thing in the wooden box by some german company, I was remembering, just turned out to only be a compass. |
| 00:34.44 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-171.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 00:37.03 | Elrond | ( http://shop.dekotrend48.de/images/0176.JPG ) |
| 00:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedFire (n=SpeedFir@fedora/SpeedFire) |
| 00:43.10 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
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| 00:44.46 | *** join/#openmoko mellon (n=mellon@dsl093-162-130.tus1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 00:50.50 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 00:50.50 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
| 00:52.14 | mwester | Well, I for one am most happy that mokobot has seen the light. |
| 00:52.30 | mwester | Will it begin to sing now? |
| 00:53.43 | *** join/#openmoko spliffy (n=frost@p54B1EAA7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 01:13.13 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 01:13.45 | *** join/#openmoko jadams (n=Jadams@rrcs-67-78-224-48.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:14.29 | jadams | Bought an n770 for prototyping. On it now |
| 01:15.56 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@vnsecurity.net) |
| 01:19.36 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:23.09 | sagacis | I'm starting to feel left out. Why don't I get to pay for my order? |
| 01:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 01:23.39 | sagacis | ~p1 |
| 01:23.42 | mokobot | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 01:26.26 | sagacis | How do I send a ctrl-c in the terminal window? |
| 01:28.04 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 01:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:36.11 | Jason1 | " mugs Jason1 for his neo and gives it to ScaredyCat" hehe Apparently this is a dangerous part of town |
| 01:37.22 | *** join/#openmoko khaije1 (n=khaije1@unaffiliated/khaije1) |
| 01:38.36 | gcb77 | looks like they may have skipped my order :( |
| 01:41.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:Development_Board]] [[QT2410]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Trondheim]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 01:42.26 | khaije1 | so which bluetooth profiles does the gta02 support? is that a function or hardware, or software? |
| 01:44.08 | *** join/#openmoko openfans (n=ooooops@218.79.146.16) |
| 01:54.50 | jaebird | sagacis: still no word? |
| 02:09.29 | *** join/#openmoko devilCMKRNL (n=devilCMK@adsl-216-103-214-183.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 02:12.56 | Linux_Galore | heh opensource Tux icecream http://www.flickr.com/photos/plasticpixel/86478035/in/set-72057594048201675/ |
| 02:15.00 | juri_ | made out of real penguins? |
| 02:16.42 | sagacis | jaebird: Still no word |
| 02:22.20 | Jason1 | Linux_Galore: I used to live in that area. Never saw that shop however |
| 02:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 02:28.12 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54880DD3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:30.20 | galexande | gah, so close to the perfect ipsec setup, and yet, so far away |
| 02:35.15 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A4BCC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:35.28 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.ethome-ip.ethome.com.tw) |
| 03:00.43 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (n=8472@dslb-084-056-239-106.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:06.06 | compbrain | Yay! |
| 03:06.13 | compbrain | Payment confirmation! |
| 03:06.37 | galexande | brain, RT#? |
| 03:06.44 | compbrain | 24xx |
| 03:06.51 | galexande | fuckin a |
| 03:06.54 | compbrain | 09 |
| 03:07.46 | ckuethe | huh. billing on saturday evening. wow |
| 03:09.40 | cesarb | ckuethe: evening? around here it's already night |
| 03:10.00 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-75-53-34-0.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:10.10 | cesarb | In fact, I should already be sleeping |
| 03:10.14 | hads | Sunday afternoon here. Funny thing timezones :) |
| 03:10.30 | cesarb | But trying to make openmoko compile with ARM EABI is _fun_ |
| 03:12.18 | compbrain | Now we wait for shipping. It is a very exciting time |
| 03:13.24 | cesarb | compbrain: you guys should lower your expectations. If you are expecting it to only ship next week, and it ships sooner, you can feel "wow, it's fast!" (instead of "why is it taking so swearword long?") |
| 03:13.56 | cesarb | (but then, having a really high ticket number helps) |
| 03:15.46 | compbrain | cesarb: Yeah, I've got classes to distract me during the week |
| 03:15.52 | compbrain | I only get anxious on weekends :) |
| 03:17.59 | ckuethe | cesarb: GMT-0700 |
| 03:18.14 | cesarb | ckuethe: GMT-0300 here |
| 03:20.07 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFD3C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:20.30 | ckuethe | yes, i had a high ticket number too ... i resigned myself to the notion of "it'll get here when it gets here" |
| 03:20.35 | *** join/#openmoko NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D62A.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 03:21.50 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 03:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko baird- (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 03:25.07 | compbrain | I'm also waiting for a new laptop - so its a familiar theme |
| 03:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko baird- (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 03:28.36 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=Compaq_O@cpe-76-184-78-54.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 03:30.23 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-71-98.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 03:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon_II (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 03:42.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[User:Chooseopen]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Adelaide]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[Minimo]] |
| 03:48.41 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@adsl-64-173-169-47.dsl.frsn01.pacbell.net) |
| 03:49.34 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@adsl-64-173-169-47.dsl.frsn01.pacbell.net) |
| 03:56.00 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird_mobile (n=jaebird_@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 03:56.21 | *** part/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 03:57.52 | sagacis | jaebird_mobile: heya |
| 03:58.01 | jaebird_mobile | hey |
| 03:58.56 | jaebird_mobile | irc is cool on mobile devices :) |
| 04:13.47 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 04:14.11 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 04:14.11 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-21 06:20) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 75% in 3 days 19:45:48 (3.823±2.5 days) (1768;249) |
| 04:14.23 | daMaestro | grrr |
| 04:17.02 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:21.23 | Arachnid | Woohoo, payment received on my openmoko order :) |
| 04:22.00 | Arachnid | and shipping is cheaper :) |
| 04:30.07 | daMaestro | hmm i still have not been billed |
| 04:30.36 | Psi_ | daMaestro, whats your ticket? |
| 04:30.42 | daMaestro | 1964 |
| 04:31.08 | Psi_ | hm.. yeah, strange |
| 04:31.21 | Psi_ | i would have thought they were working in order |
| 04:32.59 | galexande | would have, but there's a 24xx that's charged too\ |
| 04:33.05 | galexande | i think they just don't like me |
| 04:34.04 | Psi_ | you got/sent the YES_I_DO email? |
| 04:35.30 | sagacis | I've not been billed and I'm 1912 |
| 04:35.43 | Psi_ | strange |
| 04:36.08 | sagacis | I think they are just randomly charging... |
| 04:36.19 | sagacis | Maybe the network? I used mastercard |
| 04:36.25 | daMaestro | visa here |
| 04:37.17 | jaebird_mobile | sagacis is sad |
| 04:37.22 | daMaestro | afaik, i said YES_I_DO also |
| 04:39.32 | devilCMKRNL | 10,000 years without an open cell phone... savor the final days. ;-) |
| 04:48.09 | Psi_ | maybe they divided up the list and have multiple people working at it from different points |
| 04:48.14 | Psi_ | that could explain it |
| 04:49.23 | sagacis | No "at" command on the moko? |
| 04:58.48 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 04:59.26 | galexande | yeah i sent YES_I_DO 18 minutes after receiving it |
| 05:00.00 | galexande | maybe they don't like orange or don't like visa cards or assume that the database is ordered when it isn't. |
| 05:04.07 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 05:04.28 | Sup3rkiddo | hi all |
| 05:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko wehttamb__ (n=wehttamb@CPE-58-170-27-94.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 05:19.08 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@adsl-64-173-169-47.dsl.frsn01.pacbell.net) |
| 05:24.28 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.ethome-ip.ethome.com.tw) |
| 05:35.30 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 05:38.15 | *** join/#openmoko shark_ (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 05:42.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] |
| 05:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse_home (n=kruz@69.73.127.92) |
| 05:52.47 | *** join/#openmoko tuxmaniac (n=tuxmania@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac) |
| 05:54.05 | *** part/#openmoko tuxmaniac (n=tuxmania@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac) |
| 06:03.49 | bkruse_home | anyone got suggestions for qemu optimizations? |
| 06:04.16 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 06:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko shark_ (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 06:07.06 | daMaestro | galexande, it might be visa... i ordered black |
| 06:12.21 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 06:15.31 | *** join/#openmoko seeinguser (n=blindcod@pallas.crash-override.net) |
| 06:34.14 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia_ (n=Ophelia@p54B90D28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:35.04 | *** join/#openmoko wehttamb_ (n=wehttamb@CPE-58-165-152-26.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 06:42.48 | aloril | (script) http://openmoko.com changed: sizeof(diff -u)=1113 |
| 06:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:45.49 | *** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
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| 06:54.44 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-123.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:55.12 | bkruse_home | anyone done any qemu optimizations? |
| 07:07.37 | rtyler | bkruse_home: yeah, I put it on a faster machine >_> |
| 07:08.39 | ewanm89_laptop | bkruse_home: I used the same method, it speeds up make openmoko-devel-image too. |
| 07:08.48 | rtyler | heh |
| 07:09.26 | ewanm89_laptop | rtyler: Compile of openmoko (first time takes hours)? |
| 07:09.36 | rtyler | didn't for me |
| 07:09.37 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@adsl-64-173-169-47.dsl.frsn01.pacbell.net) |
| 07:09.53 | rtyler | or well, the qemu bits, I haven't built all of openmoko from scratch yet |
| 07:11.19 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-152-200-41.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:11.29 | ewanm89 | rtyler: Ah, from scratch, and it depends on the hardware, my sempron takes a good 12-14 hours, core2duo does it in 5. |
| 07:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-152-200-41.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:15.07 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore_ (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:28.36 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178209180.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 07:30.18 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 07:31.42 | *** join/#openmoko wehttamb_ (n=wehttamb@CPE-124-183-64-67.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 07:32.26 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host139-123-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:39.39 | *** join/#openmoko Dmitry_Platonov (n=hawk@user-89-248-176-130.gagarino.net) |
| 07:40.57 | rtyler | WOOT! |
| 07:41.26 | gcb77 | Then I found out my hosting comp is using old Apache, you cant download files over 2GB |
| 07:41.36 | rtyler | GAH! |
| 07:41.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[QT2410/kr]] [[QT2410/zh_cn]] [[QT2410]] [[Category:Development_Board]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wish_List]] |
| 07:43.25 | gcb77 | I'm setting up an FTP acount... should be ready in a few minutes |
| 07:44.51 | *** join/#openmoko ColdFyre (n=coldfyre@c-67-170-236-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:45.58 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:46.30 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:46.30 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1167864230.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:49.06 | gcb77 | Any luck making hello world app? |
| 07:49.29 | rtyler | been busy working on other projects unfortunately, got sick of fighting QEMU |
| 07:49.36 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
| 07:50.01 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, I have to clear out my build dir and rebuild from scratch. |
| 07:50.21 | gcb77 | had to do that several times |
| 07:50.27 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:50.42 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 07:50.43 | ewanm89_laptop | rm -rf build should do it. |
| 07:51.06 | gcb77 | make clobber |
| 07:51.37 | gcb77 | then another few hours of rebuild |
| 07:52.02 | ewanm89_laptop | Shouldn't the remove buld dir work? |
| 07:52.20 | gcb77 | haven't tried that |
| 07:52.41 | gcb77 | I tried removing individual packages, and couldn't get it to build again |
| 07:53.37 | ewanm89_laptop | gcb77: You would have to remove the stamps. |
| 07:54.56 | *** join/#openmoko wehttamb__ (n=wehttamb@CPE-58-168-25-62.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 07:55.31 | gcb77 | ok, ftp is ready: ftp.gcbnet.dev user: moko pw: openmoko |
| 07:55.55 | gcb77 | lol, got that backwards... ftp.gcbdev.net |
| 07:56.21 | ewanm89_laptop | yeah, I don't think dev is a TLD? |
| 07:58.26 | rtyler | I think that'll only let one person in at a time |
| 07:59.01 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, might do. |
| 07:59.23 | rtyler | nvm, there we go, let's see if an ls works >_> |
| 08:01.18 | rtyler | dreamhost as well |
| 08:02.04 | gcb77 | I'm curios what the download speed is like |
| 08:02.12 | rtyler | 230 User moko logged in |
| 08:02.12 | rtyler | Remote system type is UNIX. |
| 08:02.12 | rtyler | Using binary mode to transfer files. |
| 08:02.12 | rtyler | ftp> ls |
| 08:02.12 | rtyler | 200 PORT command successful |
| 08:02.15 | rtyler | 425 Unable to build data connection: No route to host |
| 08:02.36 | gcb77 | grr |
| 08:03.13 | gcb77 | try get mokodev.vmdk.bz2 |
| 08:04.24 | rtyler | ftp> get mokodev.vmdk.bz2 |
| 08:04.24 | rtyler | local: mokodev.vmdk.bz2 remote: mokodev.vmdk.bz2 |
| 08:04.24 | rtyler | 200 PORT command successful |
| 08:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 08:06.35 | rtyler | ftp> get mokodev.vmdk.bz2 |
| 08:06.36 | rtyler | local: mokodev.vmdk.bz2 remote: mokodev.vmdk.bz2 |
| 08:06.36 | rtyler | 200 PORT command successful |
| 08:06.36 | rtyler | 425 Unable to build data connection: Connection timed out |
| 08:06.36 | rtyler | ftp> |
| 08:08.02 | ewanm89_laptop | ~lart dreamhost |
| 08:08.02 | apt | executes killall -KILL dreamhost |
| 08:08.02 | gcb77 | That is strange... I can get to it just fine from here, but not from other places |
| 08:08.12 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AC5C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:08.24 | gcb77 | lol |
| 08:08.24 | Dmitry_Platonov | gcb77, why not bittorrent? |
| 08:08.36 | gcb77 | dreamhost hates torrent |
| 08:08.37 | rtyler | apt: that's a neat trick, does mokobot have a man page somewhere? :P |
| 08:08.47 | rtyler | dreamhost also hates customers |
| 08:08.55 | gcb77 | If you think dreamhost is bad, try bluehost |
| 08:09.17 | gcb77 | rtyler: can you get to www.gcbdev.net |
| 08:09.25 | rtyler | but of course |
| 08:09.54 | gcb77 | anyone know of a good way to split a file into multiple archives? |
| 08:10.07 | rtyler | aforementioned anvil hitting :P |
| 08:10.16 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
| 08:12.20 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
| 08:13.14 | Dmitry_Platonov | gcb77, rar? |
| 08:13.28 | rtyler | gcb77: RAWR! |
| 08:14.06 | gcb77 | tar -M is an option |
| 08:14.12 | ewanm89_laptop | Tar can do it, I'm not sure on the command. |
| 08:15.04 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 08:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 08:24.29 | ScaredyCat | roflmao |
| 08:24.48 | ScaredyCat | " |
| 08:24.48 | ScaredyCat | C'mon I am #3560 and 54 years old. Will I live to receive it ? I' afraid |
| 08:24.48 | ScaredyCat | my last words will be: "Did it arrive ? No ? Aaaaaargh." (dies) |
| 08:24.50 | ScaredyCat | " |
| 08:25.05 | Markinoko | lol |
| 08:25.19 | rtyler | ScaredyCat: my number is 3824, can you leave me yours in your will? |
| 08:25.43 | ScaredyCat | minie has been paid for :D |
| 08:25.48 | ScaredyCat | I'm 1826 |
| 08:26.02 | ScaredyCat | that ^^ was posted to the mailing list |
| 08:27.20 | Markinoko | I've suspended my subscription to the community mailing list... To many people talking only about "I'm number ## when will I receive it ?" |
| 08:27.30 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 08:27.32 | Markinoko | It got kind of boring... |
| 08:27.46 | Ycros | this is why these things should be randomised. ;) |
| 08:28.07 | Markinoko | yeah |
| 08:29.31 | doc|home | they really got 3500+ orders? |
| 08:29.42 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 08:29.48 | doc|home | bah! :) |
| 08:29.52 | jeddy3 | "Payment received"!! (rt #229x) |
| 08:30.08 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 08:30.14 | ScaredyCat | ticket numbers are generated when email hits the rt system, so that includes spam |
| 08:30.24 | Markinoko | hmm |
| 08:33.06 | ewanm89_laptop | Then they started at 1820. |
| 08:35.13 | jeddy3 | aloril2, they just confirmed my payment |
| 08:35.16 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
| 08:35.28 | jeddy3 | aloril2, #229x |
| 08:35.29 | aloril2 | based on jeddy3's number: probable has been CANCEL mails and/or close to 1 order/ticket number and/or spam rt numbers |
| 08:36.29 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: I'm actually developing too. |
| 08:36.46 | ewanm89_laptop | Rebuilding from cratch atm. |
| 08:37.14 | ewanm89_laptop | s/cratch/scratch/ |
| 08:37.17 | gcb77 | I had RT#1832... got blank YES_I_DO e-mail ( I still responded YES_I_DO ), and nothing so far |
| 08:37.25 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: well, I know some of the people here are of course. |
| 08:37.46 | ewanm89_laptop | But I can't even order the neo. |
| 08:38.22 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADB9B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:38.28 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: I want a GTA02. waiting silently seemed like a good option to me... ;-) |
| 08:39.52 | Markinoko | I just wanna get jack running and get rid of pulseaudio |
| 08:40.17 | hads | Why's that? |
| 08:40.18 | mmazur | !!!!! |
| 08:40.22 | mmazur | I got my sms! |
| 08:40.23 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: Probably not to difficult. |
| 08:40.36 | rtyler | mmazur: did you text JOKE1 to 77423? |
| 08:40.41 | mmazur | 30 minutes ago |
| 08:40.52 | mmazur | My bank smsed me with the cc card charge! |
| 08:41.28 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: well I have jack compiled for the target. the package installs fine, but I'll probably need some patches submitted to the jack devs. doesn't exacly run too well now |
| 08:41.57 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-91-126.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:42.04 | Markinoko | hads: pulseaudio doesn't have half of jack capabilities. sorry... |
| 08:42.21 | hads | No need to apologies to me. Just curious. |
| 08:42.26 | Markinoko | :-) |
| 08:43.06 | Markinoko | pulseaudio like most audio servers is good for "I want several apps to acces the sound card at the same time without crashing" |
| 08:43.31 | Markinoko | jack is the same and has some sort of conrtolable patch bay |
| 08:43.43 | hads | Yeah |
| 08:44.01 | ewanm89_laptop | from my experience jack is good for I |
| 08:44.09 | hads | So many different projects. |
| 08:44.12 | ewanm89_laptop | "I want several apps to acces the sound card at the same time and crashing" |
| 08:44.26 | ewanm89_laptop | s/acces/access/ |
| 08:45.08 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: that was probably with a very old jack version ;-) |
| 08:45.24 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: I run my whole home studio with jack |
| 08:45.31 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: So the version in fiesty is old? |
| 08:45.52 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: and I seen jack handle quite a few thousand channels... |
| 08:46.08 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: what revision number? |
| 08:46.15 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: and which app crashed ? |
| 08:46.25 | ewanm89_laptop | it might be my crappy sound cards. |
| 08:47.20 | Markinoko | oh... and it's ubuntu... we've had a lot of trouble with the debian like packagers... although I do like debian like distros I must say they are sometimes a big bother for linux audio |
| 08:47.22 | mmazur | Oh, and I got my mail! |
| 08:47.38 | Markinoko | mmazur: congrats :-) |
| 08:48.48 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, I wonder how well it would work on gentoo on the same hardware. |
| 08:49.13 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: what's the hardware ? |
| 08:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko sindbad1900 (n=lucian@86.125.48.111) |
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| 08:50.49 | gcb77 | rtyler: http://www.gcbdev.net/openmoko/ |
| 08:51.40 | rtyler | WAHOO! |
| 08:53.22 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3ABF3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:54.36 | gamin | seems there is no reason to tick the fast delivery option... |
| 08:54.42 | rtyler | heh |
| 08:56.26 | gamin | raster said he picked his one up by himself in Taiwan. that might be the fastest way :p |
| 08:56.39 | rtyler | yeah, but then you have to go to Taiwan |
| 08:57.55 | Clint | taiwan is nice |
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| 09:00.16 | ScaredyCat | gcb77: did you zero your disks first vmware ones) |
| 09:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko lar5 (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 09:01.03 | ScaredyCat | s/first vmware ones/first. The vmware ones I mean/ |
| 09:01.15 | gcb77 | started out with growable disks |
| 09:02.17 | rtyler | done with disc one, onto second one :D |
| 09:02.29 | gcb77 | wha, that was fast! |
| 09:03.15 | *** join/#openmoko aesci99 (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 09:03.37 | gcb77 | bluehost used to throttle to ~100k/sec |
| 09:05.51 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 09:06.01 | PBeck | hi |
| 09:06.34 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:07.58 | rtyler | gcb77: I work at a reasonable big startup in San Francisoc, we have big pipes :P |
| 09:09.43 | gcb77 | rtyler: :) |
| 09:12.43 | rtyler | gah, almost got the other one, ran out of space :P |
| 09:13.39 | gcb77 | doh, the way they are right now, you have to use tar to re-assemble, then bunzip |
| 09:13.53 | gcb77 | I'm working on a tar+bzip |
| 09:17.41 | ynezz | strange, we got #1952 and still no CC charged |
| 09:18.10 | cjb_ie | apparently numbering sequence != shipping sequence |
| 09:18.18 | ynezz | wtf :) |
| 09:18.20 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: More watching there inboxes. |
| 09:19.37 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: hehe. seems like todays hot topic is "what-the-algorithm-behind-the-sequence-number". facinating ;-) |
| 09:19.58 | cjb_ie | lucky dip, i think. |
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| 09:26.08 | ynezz | I wonder if our group order joined those blackholed... |
| 09:33.05 | ScaredyCat | I can say it's not the YES_I_DO email order... because I was away when they sent those out, and was probably the last to answer |
| 09:33.39 | mmazur | ScaredyCat, I've answered 4 days after getting the email, so don't sweat it :) |
| 09:34.15 | ScaredyCat | I have paid for mine... |
| 09:34.51 | ScaredyCat | but I was away for 5 days (time zone diffs) |
| 09:36.15 | mmazur | Like I've said -- I've answered to the TILL_DEATH_DO_US_PART 4 days after receiving it. And got my cc charged a few hours ago. Always look on the bright side... ;) |
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| 09:42.22 | ynezz | mmazur: what was your rt # ? |
| 09:42.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] |
| 09:44.37 | ScaredyCat | do you think that they are actually packing them as they charge? Just seems to be rather slow. |
| 09:45.09 | ScaredyCat | between charges |
| 09:45.15 | ynezz | packing is slow |
| 09:45.34 | ynezz | imagine about 3-5 mins per one order |
| 09:45.39 | ewon | they need to hire some packing-wenches |
| 09:45.48 | ynezz | it's 3000 mins |
| 09:46.00 | ScaredyCat | s/some/some busty/ |
| 09:46.45 | ScaredyCat | 3-5 mins per box.. ? wtf how slow are you! ;) |
| 09:47.07 | ynezz | print sticker, charge CC, pack the box... |
| 09:47.17 | ScaredyCat | charge cc first |
| 09:47.20 | ynezz | i mean a time to finish whole proccess |
| 09:47.39 | ScaredyCat | ok, but only one at a time then? |
| 09:48.06 | ynezz | if there is one person :) |
| 09:48.12 | ScaredyCat | I mean you could have 1 person doing the charging, then when it's ok, hand over to the packer/printer |
| 09:48.33 | ScaredyCat | which could be anyone... |
| 09:48.43 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 09:48.48 | ynezz | no, in fic it must be a kernel hacker! |
| 09:48.50 | ScaredyCat | storm's a brewin' |
| 09:50.04 | ScaredyCat | yeah, well.... :x |
| 09:51.14 | ewon | they're going to need some busty packing wenches for GTA02, or they're boned |
| 09:51.43 | ewon | and when GTA02 is shipped, they can send the busty packing wenches to me \o/ |
| 09:51.49 | ScaredyCat | aren't they using distributors for gta02 ? |
| 09:51.54 | ewon | I hope so :) |
| 09:53.46 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: packing can be rather involved |
| 09:54.43 | ScaredyCat | it's not that invloved. |
| 09:55.05 | ScaredyCat | sure if you didn't bother to prepare, like FIC.. it'll be slow |
| 09:57.38 | mmazur | Ah. |
| 09:57.39 | ScaredyCat | I imagine there's some poor soul just checking the cards... on a Sunday.... |
| 09:57.54 | ewon | it's probably LaForge |
| 09:58.00 | ewon | the poor bastard |
| 09:58.03 | LarstiQ | mmazur: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners ;) |
| 09:58.15 | mmazur | 2280 |
| 09:58.20 | LarstiQ | mmazur: woot |
| 09:58.27 | cjb_ie | ewon: they'll be shipping out of ca.us i think, so you'll be at least in the same state - convenient for busty wench delivery |
| 09:58.31 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: or they could be iso 9000 certified :) |
| 09:58.32 | ScaredyCat | well, it should at least be a little less stressful ewon ;) |
| 09:59.27 | ScaredyCat | iso 9000 is a crock of shit |
| 09:59.51 | cjb_ie | well, the motivation behind it is reasonable, but the implementation is so, so painful. |
| 10:00.01 | mjr | Yay, I've been charged (1851) |
| 10:00.07 | ScaredyCat | I've worked in places with certification where they couldn't tie their own shoelaces |
| 10:00.47 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: now, did they need a document to tell them how to find the document to tell them how to tie their own shoelaces? |
| 10:01.12 | ynezz | maybe they've split orders to few groups |
| 10:01.32 | ynezz | and few of these groups are faster :) |
| 10:01.43 | ScaredyCat | yes, but they cvouldn't find the document to tell them how to find the document to tell them how to find the document to tell them how to tie their own shoelaces |
| 10:02.01 | cjb_ie | ynezz: each kernel hacker gets to implement his own charging/shipping solution for his group...? |
| 10:02.09 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 10:02.14 | ewon | cjb_ie: indeed |
| 10:02.25 | ynezz | it's a competition! |
| 10:02.44 | ScaredyCat | ponts for accuracy and thoughput |
| 10:02.48 | ScaredyCat | points |
| 10:04.37 | ScaredyCat | someone should sort p1 owners by orderid |
| 10:05.01 | LarstiQ | aye |
| 10:05.13 | mdt | that's strange - i got order-id 2177 but i am not listed - how is the order there? |
| 10:05.21 | ScaredyCat | naa, that's a pyton programmers job ;) |
| 10:05.25 | *** join/#openmoko Markinok1 (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:05.36 | ScaredyCat | mdt: you have to add it yourself |
| 10:06.04 | mdt | ah, understand. :D sry. but i got no other mail but the YES_I_DO request... |
| 10:06.14 | ynezz | ah bug in select, jesus |
| 10:06.16 | ynezz | :) |
| 10:06.23 | ScaredyCat | only vey early orders seemed to get that mdt |
| 10:06.54 | ScaredyCat | s/vey/very/ |
| 10:07.24 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: feh, I'll take your challenge ;P |
| 10:07.35 | ScaredyCat | if you haven't had a 'We've charged your credit card' email, they haven't processed you yet |
| 10:07.42 | mdt | ah, i see, all the orders with 'Payment Confirmed' are smaller order ids. that makes sense... |
| 10:07.48 | ScaredyCat | LarstiQ: Good job ;) |
| 10:08.33 | ScaredyCat | s/stars/stares/ |
| 10:08.47 | ScaredyCat | dodgy keyboard, honest |
| 10:09.26 | ScaredyCat | at least here, I can be pretty sure it wont flood :) |
| 10:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.111.2) |
| 10:10.19 | ScaredyCat | You completed that task yet LarstiQ ? |
| 10:10.41 | mdt | is there a way to participate in development? seems to be quit close the community... i wrote about some arm and gsm expirience to laforge but got no reply. |
| 10:11.00 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: no, busy fixing (other) bugs atm. |
| 10:11.23 | ScaredyCat | he's very busy and under lots of pressure atm mdt... |
| 10:11.30 | LarstiQ | mdt: you can write software fine |
| 10:11.42 | ScaredyCat | you can use the mailing lists too.... |
| 10:11.43 | mdt | i already do |
| 10:11.54 | ScaredyCat | theres specific ones for the gsmd etc |
| 10:14.02 | *** part/#openmoko mil_ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 10:14.19 | mdt | thing is, i am about writing a software, currently running on greenphone. i don't use x11, gtk,... but i need all the other stuff like gsmd, dbus, whatever. i don't know if the arch of openmoko allows that |
| 10:15.29 | LarstiQ | mdt: there are images available (or you can build them) to test with |
| 10:16.12 | mdt | yes i read about that and all the trouble with it ;) did not start because i thought this runs much smoother at a later time :) |
| 10:16.43 | mdt | is framework-devel the right list to discuss architectural questions? |
| 10:16.50 | mdt | or openmoko-apps? |
| 10:17.35 | ScaredyCat | gcb77: has created a vmware image |
| 10:17.43 | ScaredyCat | that might help |
| 10:17.49 | rtyler | gcb77: this is just the disk? do I need to create a VMWare Image around it or something? |
| 10:18.42 | mdt | ScaredyCat, why a vmware image? as a linux development platform containing everything needed? |
| 10:18.53 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 10:19.32 | mdt | isn't there a working step by step discription to succeed on a already running linux system? |
| 10:19.41 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 10:19.54 | mdt | i didn't find one that works for me :/ |
| 10:20.04 | ScaredyCat | but a) not everyone has the time b) not everyone runs linux |
| 10:20.14 | ScaredyCat | mokomakefile |
| 10:20.28 | ScaredyCat | try that if you don;t want the vmware image |
| 10:21.05 | ScaredyCat | so long as you have the deps mokomakefile will work fine |
| 10:21.30 | LarstiQ | and the hdd space |
| 10:21.36 | rtyler | the problem I've had with getting everything up to speed is getting an emulator like QEMU to work with networking >_> |
| 10:21.38 | mdt | and finaly you get a image for qemu? |
| 10:22.58 | ScaredyCat | farscape :) |
| 10:23.31 | LarstiQ | mdt: you can |
| 10:23.38 | LarstiQ | mdt: you can also just do native development |
| 10:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@vnsecurity.net) |
| 10:23.54 | LarstiQ | mdt: as far as having the right dependencies goes that should be fine |
| 10:24.17 | mdt | LarstiQ, if i have a neo.... |
| 10:25.06 | LarstiQ | mdt: then what? |
| 10:25.23 | mdt | [12:20] LarstiQ: mdt: you can also just do native development |
| 10:25.29 | mdt | ? |
| 10:26.04 | LarstiQ | mdt: heh, two different ways of interpreting native :) |
| 10:26.12 | mdt | oups... scripts of mokomakefile require bash but don't say so.... :D |
| 10:26.28 | LarstiQ | mdt: yeah, a known problem |
| 10:26.41 | mdt | LarstiQ, ah, you meant you can run x86 mode or arm emu in qemu.... i see |
| 10:26.52 | LarstiQ | right |
| 10:27.12 | mdt | that's nasty require a bash but... hm. okay. |
| 10:29.00 | *** join/#openmoko lar5 (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 10:29.15 | LarstiQ | mdt: I've had a try at fixing that but gave up |
| 10:29.56 | *** join/#openmoko manulito (n=joel@kr-lun-149-156-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 10:30.29 | mdt | LarstiQ, is you don't do so from the begining it s a lot of work :/ |
| 10:30.45 | mdt | devel-core does not exist :/ |
| 10:31.08 | LarstiQ | mdt: aye, and it's not in the moko scripts themselves but in one of the dependencies iirc |
| 10:31.17 | LarstiQ | so meh |
| 10:31.57 | mdt | the wiki does not mention the debian version that is required... |
| 10:32.31 | mdt | will it work with unstable? |
| 10:32.31 | LarstiQ | as in, suite? I'd think that etch would work, let me check the version of monotone it carries. |
| 10:32.35 | LarstiQ | mdt: duh :) |
| 10:32.42 | Markinoko | hehehe, that's cool : http://rafb.net/p/J4a0jA51.html |
| 10:33.13 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFDDA1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:33.29 | LarstiQ | mdt: I think etch will work as well, but unstable certainly should. |
| 10:34.40 | mdt | so how much space is needed? |
| 10:36.13 | ScaredyCat | 7.5gb |
| 10:36.23 | mdt | oups... ;) |
| 10:37.46 | *** join/#openmoko goloo (n=goloo@host244-197-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:37.54 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-210-79.netcologne.de) |
| 10:38.16 | mdt | ...and takes how long? |
| 10:39.18 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A35998.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:39.49 | ScaredyCat | 7 hours |
| 10:40.09 | ScaredyCat | well, on my dual xeon 2.4ghz 2 gb ram 308 mins |
| 10:40.26 | ScaredyCat | but 7 hours is a good guideline, for the first run |
| 10:43.19 | ewanm89_laptop | Takes about 5 on my core2duo |
| 10:46.21 | ewanm89_laptop | Might take a bit longer now I've added INHERIT "rm_work" |
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| 11:00.08 | cjb_ie | right, i better not even think of trying on my little crusoe. you guys will probably release twice in the time it takes to compile once :-) |
| 11:01.54 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: But updates are real quick. |
| 11:02.24 | ewanm89_laptop | Bur someone broke something again; |
| 11:02.26 | ewanm89_laptop | http://pastebin.ca/629493 |
| 11:12.07 | ewanm89_laptop | Solution to my problem: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=641 |
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| 11:42.30 | Markinoko | did anyone manage to get some sound out of the emulator ? |
| 11:42.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] [[User:Phlintphour]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] |
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| 11:48.57 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: No, haven't managed sound yet. |
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| 11:56.31 | Vegar | I have, but it's horribly laggy and slow |
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| 12:22.54 | Markinok1 | god damned emulator... crashes my whole system |
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| 12:50.18 | daxxar | Wee. I got charged. |
| 12:50.23 | woglinde | hehe |
| 12:50.25 | woglinde | gratz |
| 12:50.36 | daxxar | :-) |
| 12:50.50 | daxxar | Hm, I wonder what I'll have to do to get this x86 build set up |
| 12:51.51 | woglinde | read the wiki |
| 12:51.55 | woglinde | and than ask |
| 12:52.02 | woglinde | if something is unclear |
| 12:53.16 | ScaredyCat | or |
| 12:53.31 | ScaredyCat | download a pre-prep'd environment |
| 12:54.07 | Sup3rkiddo | daxxar, whats your rt? |
| 12:54.41 | daxxar | 2233 |
| 12:54.49 | manulito | "DO NOT expect to be able to use it as an everyday phone for several months." from the wiki..., how long do you think it will take untill you can make/receive phonecalls/sms ? |
| 12:55.02 | daxxar | I think make/receive phonecalls is already working |
| 12:55.16 | SpeedEvil | SMS isn't. |
| 12:55.18 | manulito | ok |
| 12:55.19 | daxxar | But they mentioned that e.g. power-management is crappy/lacking, so battery life is short |
| 12:55.32 | woglinde | daxxar right |
| 12:55.38 | woglinde | 6 hours or so |
| 12:55.46 | woglinde | didnt look at clock |
| 12:55.52 | daxxar | woglinde: I'm getting a weird make-error that rwhitby doesn't understand at all. :-S |
| 12:56.00 | manulito | 6hours of usage or idletime ? |
| 12:56.31 | woglinde | hm I think thats idenpend |
| 12:56.37 | woglinde | cant remeber |
| 12:57.01 | SpeedEvil | The power managment sucks. |
| 12:57.16 | SpeedEvil | And the CPU doesn't really save power unless you do active stuff with it. |
| 12:57.26 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't use much less power when idle than active, forex. |
| 12:57.37 | daxxar | make[1]: *** read jobs pipe: No such file or directory. Stop. |
| 12:57.37 | woglinde | uh *g* |
| 12:57.38 | manulito | ahh ok |
| 12:57.46 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 12:58.05 | SpeedEvil | Based on the datasheet of the CPU and other bits, in principle, it could be a lot better. |
| 12:59.18 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management |
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| 12:59.46 | daxxar | woglinde: This is my /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/quilt-native-0.45-r1/temp/log.do_stage.32236: http://rafb.net/p/SZTesT79.html |
| 13:00.10 | daxxar | Only thing resembling an error I can see is "make[1]: *** read jobs pipe: No such file or directory. Stop.", which I can't make sense of |
| 13:00.22 | woglinde | oehm |
| 13:00.31 | ScaredyCat | there's a power mode that turns the cpu 'off' isn;t there.. ie it sits and waits for an event trigger from gsm/gps chips |
| 13:00.31 | SpeedEvil | In principle, it seems like playing MP3s only with the screen off should give >12 hours of life. |
| 13:00.43 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: That's basically suspend-RAM |
| 13:00.49 | ScaredyCat | ahh k |
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| 13:02.12 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel#Power_Management |
| 13:02.58 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - you can turn on/off all the other stuff at will pretty much |
| 13:03.56 | ScaredyCat | looks good :) |
| 13:04.58 | ScaredyCat | I like the idea of suspend2 keep mode |
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| 13:06.53 | noon | hello |
| 13:07.03 | SpeedEvil | Hello |
| 13:07.32 | daxxar | What does NOTE: Retreived remote revisions: [<random strings>] mean during make clean-package-foo? Is it fetching something from an RCS? |
| 13:07.33 | woglinde | heelo |
| 13:07.55 | woglinde | daxxar dont know whats going on |
| 13:08.02 | woglinde | but its strange |
| 13:08.07 | daxxar | They're seemingly random, sometimes '0', sometimes a two-three digit number, and sometimes what seems to be a hash |
| 13:08.13 | daxxar | "NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['cc3023b9f95d7ac959a764471a65001062aecf41', '0', '2375'] |
| 13:08.15 | woglinde | and I never used mokomakefile |
| 13:08.25 | woglinde | ah thats from monotone |
| 13:08.33 | woglinde | I guess |
| 13:09.37 | daxxar | Okay. :-) |
| 13:10.00 | daxxar | Now I've cleaned quilt, goin to retry openmoko-devel-image |
| 13:10.49 | daxxar | going* |
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| 13:15.20 | daxxar | Could someone who's experienced with MokoMakefile look at this buildlog and help me debug the problem? http://rafb.net/p/Xiswcn55.html |
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| 13:18.35 | daxxar | Gonna try without -j3 |
| 13:18.58 | woglinde | yes |
| 13:20.01 | daxxar | But then it'll probably take forever, ;-) |
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| 13:22.02 | woglinde | hm no |
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| 13:29.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 645 has been created by dando(AT)gmx.de |
| 13:29.01 | cdbot2 | * * +/- function does not inverse the result. |
| 13:29.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=645 |
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| 13:29.35 | SpeedEvil | 3 available? |
| 13:29.36 | SpeedEvil | oops |
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| 13:31.32 | noidd | 'lo |
| 13:32.43 | noidd | daxxar: what type of machine are you building on? |
| 13:34.39 | daxxar | Strange, it worked. |
| 13:34.43 | daxxar | Intel dualcore |
| 13:34.59 | daxxar | T2400 @ 1.83Ghz |
| 13:35.01 | daxxar | GHz* |
| 13:35.07 | daxxar | NOTE: package quilt-native-0.45: completed |
| 13:35.29 | daxxar | So without -j it worked. (I've tried that earlier, but then I forgot my globally set MAKEFLAGS, I guess it heeds that too) |
| 13:35.53 | ewanm89_laptop | | utimens.h:2: error: conflicting types for 'futimens' |
| 13:35.54 | ewanm89_laptop | | /usr/include/gentoo-multilib/amd64/sys/stat.h:370: error: previous declaration of 'futimens' was here |
| 13:36.07 | ewanm89_laptop | I need to fix for glibc-2.6? |
| 13:36.13 | zecke | ewanm89_laptop: there is a patch in the OE bugtracker for coreutils |
| 13:36.14 | ewon | ewanm89_laptop--; |
| 13:36.20 | zecke | ewanm89_laptop: it is applied in org.oe.dev |
| 13:36.33 | daxxar | Both PARALLEL_MAKE (in local.conf) and MAKEFLAGS (in global env) was set to "-j 3" |
| 13:36.54 | ewanm89_laptop | zecke: And one in openmoko bugzilla (this one didn't work). |
| 13:37.13 | daxxar | But the wiki says it should parallelize nicely on multicore systems. Strange. |
| 13:37.13 | zecke | ewanm89_laptop: well, this is why it is the openmoko bugtracker? :) |
| 13:37.30 | zecke | daxxar: don't set MAKEFLAGS :) |
| 13:37.41 | daxxar | Do you think it conflicts? |
| 13:37.52 | daxxar | I did MAKEFLAGS="" make openmoko-devel-image |
| 13:37.56 | daxxar | And that is currently running |
| 13:38.01 | ScaredyCat | parallel_make? |
| 13:38.15 | ewanm89_laptop | zecke: The patch didn't work and it's reported as fixed? |
| 13:38.37 | ynezz | fixed, as in oe.dev |
| 13:39.03 | zecke | ewanm89_laptop: no idea, I don't check the openmoko bugtracker for OE bugs |
| 13:39.16 | daxxar | ScaredyCat: Yes, it's a local.conf setting to use -j-flags. |
| 13:39.21 | ScaredyCat | oh, in locl# |
| 13:39.23 | zecke | ewanm89_laptop: I assume it is fixed in org.oe.dev |
| 13:39.24 | ScaredyCat | local |
| 13:39.40 | daxxar | I removed the MAKEFLAGS and I'm trying only PARALLEL_MAKE now |
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| 13:41.32 | daxxar | I'll post on the wiki if it works nicely now - after my email verifies. |
| 13:43.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 13:47.47 | Elrond | ph5, SpeedEvil - JFI: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/869237803/ Any idea, what this value from the chip might be? |
| 13:48.13 | ewanm89_laptop | oe patch worked :) |
| 13:48.28 | ewanm89_laptop | No it didn't. |
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| 13:50.17 | ewanm89_laptop | :( |
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| 13:55.15 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, possibly - some feedback on phase sync or bit sync. |
| 13:55.28 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Hi!! |
| 13:55.40 | Dmitry_Platonov | Hi, Elrond! |
| 13:55.46 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - You know, that this value is one from the two you noticed? |
| 13:56.02 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - The other one is the max of the CMD23 packet. |
| 13:56.04 | Dmitry_Platonov | Yes. |
| 13:56.31 | noon | hello Dmitry_Platonov |
| 13:57.23 | ewanm89_laptop | It worked when I got the patch to apply. |
| 13:57.50 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: nothing trivially obvious pops out of my head. |
| 13:58.12 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah, same here. |
| 13:58.17 | SpeedEvil | What's the peak - 2000? |
| 13:58.32 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov, SpeedEvil - Notice that his is averaged over all channels, all states of those channels. |
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| 13:58.47 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - You mean the max value? 2043. |
| 13:58.51 | pH5 | hi Elrond, Dmitry_Platonov |
| 13:59.26 | Elrond | This feels close to 2*PRN-bit-pattern-length. ;o) |
| 13:59.28 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: this is from stracing gpgll, or talking to it yourseld? |
| 13:59.50 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 13:59.55 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - From ph5's cold2.log and longtrace.dat, gllin. |
| 13:59.59 | Dmitry_Platonov | err, not bit/phase. something else. Only known it goes down with time. 8) |
| 14:00.00 | SpeedEvil | the gps bin, whatever it's called. |
| 14:00.08 | Dmitry_Platonov | hi pH5! |
| 14:00.53 | SpeedEvil | The spike _could_ nicely indicate locking in software. |
| 14:00.58 | pH5 | Elrond: which channel is this? |
| 14:01.02 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Well, when not in sync, it is just noise between 0 and 2000. ;o) (I tried this morning. My trying got me to the idea, that it is only between 0 and 2040.) |
| 14:01.10 | Elrond | pH5 - All channels. ;o) |
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| 14:01.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, it's certainly some king of feedback! |
| 14:01.46 | Dmitry_Platonov | ho, I think I have an idea. |
| 14:01.47 | SpeedEvil | 2048 - would nicely correlate to I and Q bins for 1024 code positions. |
| 14:02.12 | Dmitry_Platonov | datasheet says massive parallel engine or something like this. |
| 14:02.15 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 14:02.31 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't say how many. I was assuming 2048 |
| 14:02.31 | Elrond | Yep. |
| 14:02.47 | Dmitry_Platonov | i think it's number of correlator shown in cmd 23 |
| 14:03.23 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Huh? If I redo the same measurement over and over again, this value is noise between 0 and 2043. |
| 14:03.41 | Elrond | So how can that be number of correlations? |
| 14:03.43 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: plot it as time/x |
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| 14:03.46 | Dmitry_Platonov | hm. let me explain - my english is not so good. |
| 14:03.54 | SpeedEvil | so that if it's a moving peak, you can spot it |
| 14:03.57 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - For one channel? |
| 14:04.04 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:04.18 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I did this morning. For a non-locked SV. |
| 14:04.32 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - hoping around like mad. Looks like noise to me. |
| 14:04.43 | SpeedEvil | Plotting it against time? |
| 14:04.50 | Dmitry_Platonov | there are 2043 instances of PRN for each channel. with own counters |
| 14:04.50 | Elrond | Yes. |
| 14:05.21 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - correlators? |
| 14:05.56 | Dmitry_Platonov | and post-processor finds max, put window around max in CMD 23 and it's index in lw REG 11 |
| 14:06.00 | SpeedEvil | It could also be the carrier phase correlator |
| 14:06.11 | SpeedEvil | which tells you about exact bit timing. |
| 14:07.02 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Ahh, that might make sense. |
| 14:07.32 | Elrond | If we're not locked, the max will be anywhere... if we're locked, it will be somewhere. |
| 14:07.59 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: can you take the packet that gllin sends to the GPS, copy it, and before the satellite moves much, resend it. |
| 14:08.08 | SpeedEvil | This may get you into a sort-of-locked state |
| 14:08.09 | Dmitry_Platonov | does not looks like phase. i think PLL is set up when SEND FL6 CMD05 / RECV FL6 CMD9d takes place with wery short timings. |
| 14:08.10 | Elrond | Okay, I'll extract channel 01 from cold2.log and plot it over "time" |
| 14:09.11 | Elrond | (while neo is recreating noise curve ;o) ) |
| 14:09.13 | SpeedEvil | That actually may not tell you much. |
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| 14:09.30 | SpeedEvil | If it's locked in software - then... hmm |
| 14:09.57 | SpeedEvil | You'd see minor movements as the software PLL oscillates about the set-point |
| 14:10.23 | Dmitry_Platonov | datasheet shows hardware PLL. |
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| 14:10.48 | SpeedEvil | IIRC, there is only one hardware PLLL though. |
| 14:10.56 | SpeedEvil | Isn't that simply the local clock |
| 14:11.59 | SpeedEvil | I guessed that you sent the hardware instructions on how to setup the correlators to listen to a satellite at a specified time, and frequency offset from the local clock |
| 14:12.10 | ScaredyCat | http://phillryu.com/2007/07/21/the-power-of-good-ui-design/ |
| 14:13.14 | SpeedEvil | So you can say 'listen for PRN3 at a doppler of -1Km/s starting at time 0.38834532s |
| 14:14.06 | SpeedEvil | And if you've got all the numbers right, then the correlator peak will stay in the place you were expecting, as you're varying the doppler and time settings so it does. |
| 14:15.33 | daxxar | Hm, no IR on GTA01, right? |
| 14:15.46 | SpeedEvil | Where 'starting at' is 'time if correlator peak was at 0' |
| 14:15.50 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: nor 02 |
| 14:16.54 | Elrond | http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/869364425/ |
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| 14:17.53 | Dmitry_Platonov | it's known as carrier/code lock. but it's not all. |
| 14:18.16 | cesarb | daxxar: bluetooth is better |
| 14:18.20 | Dmitry_Platonov | we need bit sync too. |
| 14:18.30 | Dmitry_Platonov | and phase too. |
| 14:18.44 | cesarb | daxxar: after bluetooth started being used more, phones stopped coming with IR |
| 14:19.03 | cesarb | daxxar: and I'd guess palm PDAs only come with IR for backwards compability reasons |
| 14:19.36 | ewanm89_laptop | A while since I saw a laptop with IR. |
| 14:20.16 | pH5 | what happens with CMD10 before #48 in that last plot where the value freezes? |
| 14:20.27 | daxxar | cesarb: Hehe, true. ;-) |
| 14:20.40 | pH5 | eh CMD00 |
| 14:20.44 | daxxar | cesarb: IR is nice for using your device as an universal remote, but I can't think of anything else I'd want to use it for. |
| 14:20.57 | noon | ewanm89_laptop: mine has IR and i regular use it. It's slower than wlan, but much harder to intercept |
| 14:21.17 | cesarb | daxxar: universal, as long as none of your remotes use radio... |
| 14:21.29 | daxxar | cesarb: You can't have everything. ;-) |
| 14:21.38 | daxxar | I use IR for my media-center at home |
| 14:21.42 | ben_goodger | do you count wiimotes? |
| 14:21.45 | daxxar | (which runs Linux and custom software) |
| 14:21.58 | daxxar | Because IR receivers and remotes are cheap and easy to find. ;-) |
| 14:22.03 | cesarb | ben_goodger: that's no remote, that's a thinly disguised joystick |
| 14:22.21 | cesarb | daxxar: just plug a USB BT dongle on it ;-) |
| 14:22.40 | ewanm89_laptop | daxxar: I didn't say they aren't I said they don't build them into the newer laptops. |
| 14:22.44 | daxxar | cesarb: Then I need to find / write BT software for my cellphone or similar, and BT remotes are more expensive. ;-) |
| 14:22.51 | daxxar | ewanm89_laptop: What? o.0 |
| 14:22.54 | cesarb | daxxar: or, with GTA02, use TCP (with neo's wifi) |
| 14:23.00 | daxxar | Hehe, yeah, that'll be nice. <34 |
| 14:23.02 | daxxar | <3* |
| 14:23.17 | Elrond | pH5 - I don't know... But I guess, it's the lock... It's channel 01 from cold2.log, so you can count yourself. ;o) |
| 14:23.17 | cesarb | daxxar: you can keep your IR remote, and use BT/TCP as an alternate way of controlling it... |
| 14:23.24 | pH5 | Elrond: there are only four values on PRN27 before that register hits the 0x37, the rest is from fruitless searching on other PRNs |
| 14:23.26 | Dmitry_Platonov | I think, someone must start working on coldstart.c (or .py) ^_^ |
| 14:23.31 | daxxar | I'd want to write the application for J2ME, so that my flatmates can use their non-freed phones ;-) |
| 14:24.06 | woglinde | daxxar we will have midpath faster in openembbed than moko can send sms |
| 14:24.10 | Elrond | pH5 - Ahh. :) |
| 14:24.21 | cesarb | daxxar: if their non-freed phones are like mine, you don't have AFAIK a way to get to BT (it doesn't have IR) from the J2ME VM |
| 14:24.29 | pH5 | and it's already at 0x39 the first time after this ominous 'range switch' takes place where your reg6 calculation doesn't hold anymore. |
| 14:24.40 | Dmitry_Platonov | BTW, how much cpu time eats gllin? |
| 14:24.57 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - About 10%. |
| 14:25.29 | daxxar | woglinde: "midpath"? |
| 14:25.53 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - Starting gllin for you. ;) |
| 14:25.58 | daxxar | cesarb: I *think* at least the phone one of them has allows for it, I think he wrote some bt-application, but I might be mistaken. |
| 14:26.01 | daxxar | woglinde: A j2me VM? |
| 14:26.05 | woglinde | daxxar right |
| 14:26.20 | woglinde | its cacao with cldc1.1 and midp1.0 |
| 14:26.21 | daxxar | (I'll google in a bit, just need to finish this mail;) |
| 14:26.43 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:26.43 | SpeedEvil | 10% - is that in steady state? |
| 14:26.43 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:26.49 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:26.50 | SpeedEvil | That seems a bit high. |
| 14:26.54 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 14:26.56 | *** join/#openmoko writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:27.17 | Elrond | That is in search-mode, because it can't get any locks (despite being close to my window ;o) ) |
| 14:27.24 | drath_ | cesarb: isn't there a JSR that enables BT access from J2ME? |
| 14:27.49 | pH5 | Elrond: this register ends up at 0x37 for most channels. |
| 14:27.51 | woglinde | drath yes |
| 14:27.59 | cesarb | drath_: yes. And, AFAIK, the Razr's (very weak) J2ME VM doesn't have it. |
| 14:28.06 | drath | ah, ok |
| 14:28.27 | cesarb | (which is AGAIN the reason I want a freed phone: if it doesn't work, I CAN FIX IT) |
| 14:28.27 | drath | in the back of my head i seemed to remember using a BT java app on my nokia 6130 |
| 14:28.46 | pH5 | ch1, ch2, ch3, ch6, ch7 and ch8 |
| 14:28.50 | pH5 | in cold2.log |
| 14:29.07 | ewon | superwaba's graphics primitives are... primitive |
| 14:29.22 | Elrond | pH5 - See http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/869237801/ ;o) |
| 14:29.22 | ewon | I can only draw ellipses that have the minor and major on the same plane as the x and y axes |
| 14:29.38 | pH5 | Elrond: right :) |
| 14:29.42 | woglinde | drath/cesarb/daxxar one .bb I only have to create a last .bb for midpath than jvm is in oe |
| 14:29.48 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck_ (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:30.00 | daxxar | woglinde: Cool :-) |
| 14:30.04 | Vndmtrx | And the new JavaFX for Mobile, isn't a good choice for SuperWaba ?? |
| 14:30.39 | woglinde | Vndmtrx javafx is something like c# |
| 14:30.53 | woglinde | aeh no visbual basic# |
| 14:30.54 | woglinde | or so |
| 14:30.54 | cesarb | ewon: that's not a limitation if you can apply a transformation matrix to it |
| 14:31.11 | Vndmtrx | woglinde, humm |
| 14:31.16 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:31.23 | SpeedEvil | ewon: Don't all elipses that have major and semi-major axes not on the plane when projected onto the plane have identical elipses that are defined by major and semi-major axes on the plane? |
| 14:31.38 | cesarb | ewon: (of course, I have no idea if you can use transformation matrices in superwaba) |
| 14:31.45 | ewon | cesarb: it appears not |
| 14:31.54 | ewon | SpeedEvil: not that I've seen, but my maths sucks. |
| 14:32.11 | ewon | I just want to draw a bounding ellipse around some arrow impact points |
| 14:33.18 | daxxar | What's the biggest package built by default? glibc? |
| 14:33.25 | SpeedEvil | ewon: Do you mean 'does not support major and semi-major axes in line with the plane'? |
| 14:33.32 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: X I'd imagine |
| 14:33.37 | SpeedEvil | ewon: Do you mean 'does not support major and semi-major axes in line with the plane axes'? |
| 14:33.40 | daxxar | Ah, yeah. |
| 14:33.46 | Dmitry_Platonov | i'm more interested in meaning of REG 06 of CMD 00 |
| 14:33.50 | SpeedEvil | ewon: Do you mean 'does not support major and semi-major axes not in line with the plane axes'? |
| 14:33.51 | SpeedEvil | rather |
| 14:34.28 | woglinde | daxxar biggest or most time consuming? |
| 14:35.02 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov, ph5, SpeedEvil - One channel only, time series for the "base search command": http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/869433877/ |
| 14:35.07 | ewanm89_laptop | busybox is sure taking a while. |
| 14:35.20 | daxxar | woglinde: most time consuming |
| 14:35.24 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: is this in a place where the GPS can get a fix? |
| 14:35.31 | SpeedEvil | Or is this form the log |
| 14:35.47 | ewon | SpeedEvil: yes. |
| 14:35.57 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - This is from indoors, so no chance for lock/fix. |
| 14:36.29 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej_ (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:36.55 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 14:37.20 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: X is built once. glibc is built three times. |
| 14:37.26 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 14:37.30 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I really need to get a long usb cable soon, so I can sit at my desktop while neo is outside. |
| 14:37.59 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: and, if you are playing with EABI like me, you'd have to build it SIX times (uboot doesn't like EABI, so you also need to compile it with the old ABI, just for uboot's sake) |
| 14:38.13 | ewanm89_laptop | Elrond: USB is only any good upto 5 metres I think. |
| 14:38.32 | SpeedEvil | add a hub, and it goes up 5m/hub |
| 14:38.53 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: there's a limit to the number of hubs |
| 14:38.54 | daxxar | Hilarious :-P |
| 14:38.57 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: If hub is powered. |
| 14:39.06 | SpeedEvil | Or if hub is not powered. |
| 14:39.41 | SpeedEvil | You can in theory string 4 hubs and a low-powered device in series. |
| 14:39.44 | ewanm89_laptop | I suppose you could use the power off the usb. |
| 14:39.45 | SpeedEvil | non-powered |
| 14:39.58 | Elrond | ewanm89_laptop - My desktop is 2m away from the balcony door. The 1m usb cable, that came with the neo lets it sit about 80cm to the window. |
| 14:40.21 | ScaredyCat | move your desktop closer to the window ;) |
| 14:40.42 | ewanm89_laptop | I'll just take my laptop outside, and sit out there. |
| 14:40.45 | SpeedEvil | Or move the window closer to the desktop. |
| 14:41.17 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *lol* |
| 14:41.39 | Elrond | ewanm89_laptop - laptops are quite unconfortable to me. |
| 14:41.41 | Dmitry_Platonov | take desktop out. enjoy the weather |
| 14:42.07 | ewanm89_laptop | Dmitry_Platonov: Network cables become a problem. |
| 14:42.09 | pH5 | Elrond: REG6 = int( 0x122fc9b1 + REG5 * 124.0/38265.0 ) during the second phase of the lock? |
| 14:43.22 | *** join/#openmoko Monex (n=Monex@dslb-088-068-200-207.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:43.54 | Elrond | pH5 - That comes very close... |
| 14:44.05 | Elrond | I have: |
| 14:44.06 | Elrond | # m = 307.97542 +/- 0.00582 (0.00189%) |
| 14:44.06 | Elrond | # BASE2 = 305121712.5821 +- 0.0088 (2.888e-09%) |
| 14:44.19 | Elrond | While you: |
| 14:44.32 | Elrond | m = 308.588 |
| 14:44.48 | Elrond | BASE2 = 305121713 |
| 14:44.49 | pH5 | I didn't do a proper regression |
| 14:45.20 | pH5 | though I guess you can fix BASE2, given we know the value for 0 offset in REG5 |
| 14:45.50 | Elrond | pH5 - Probably. |
| 14:46.14 | Elrond | pH5 - I didn't look much into reg6-range2 for a while. |
| 14:47.02 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 14:47.56 | Dmitry_Platonov | what is SAT_CMD00_REG5_BASE? |
| 14:48.25 | Elrond | Dmitry_Platonov - The "0" offset of that register. |
| 14:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko LWT001 (n=lwt@61.145.145.23) |
| 14:53.03 | *** part/#openmoko LWT001 (n=lwt@61.145.145.23) |
| 14:54.46 | *** part/#openmoko arw_ (i=familia@201.244.109.50) |
| 14:57.54 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
| 14:57.58 | Elrond | Oh well, I guess, we can certainly be much, much better than gllin. I have put the neo on the balcony, tail -f gps.nmea in gtkterm2. It can see 40% of the sky directly. No lock. |
| 14:58.02 | Elrond | s/lock/fix |
| 14:58.12 | *** join/#openmoko grobian_ (n=grobian@L09c8.l.pppool.de) |
| 14:58.54 | Elrond | Anyway, I'm getting some cake. |
| 14:59.44 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|fic (n=mickey@e180142218.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:00.27 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: ping |
| 15:00.42 | mickeyl | alphaone: ping |
| 15:00.59 | mickeyl | Shoragan: ping |
| 15:01.20 | koen | lazy germans waking up at 5 pm |
| 15:01.38 | ScaredyCat | that's gotta be the lonelyest game of ping pong ever... |
| 15:04.44 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:05.24 | zecke | mickeyl: I got a design question as well |
| 15:06.39 | mickeyl | zecke: i'm all ears |
| 15:07.13 | zecke | mickeyl: already? I thought I would need to draw a number and sit down :) |
| 15:07.33 | zecke | mickeyl: WebView is the Mac API for WebKit (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/WebKit/Classes/WebView_Class/index.html) |
| 15:07.53 | zecke | mickeyl: it is using Delegates to implement Policy,Tracking of Progress,UI Changes |
| 15:08.25 | zecke | mickeyl: mapping that to GObject/Gtk+ is the question. The easy ones are simple notifications like "Title Changed" and it is just a simple signal |
| 15:08.29 | Dmitry_Platonov | Elrond, pH5 if REG5/REG6 seems to be coupled, can it be that one is increment for carrier generator, and other for code generator? |
| 15:09.05 | zecke | mickeyl: more interesting are policies (e.g. download a file, open a new window, follow the link). Which is async and the first approach would be to force subclassing but that is not optimal |
| 15:09.08 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 15:10.04 | zecke | mickeyl: three options I see are: signal+default handler (forcing people to use g_signal_stop_emission_by_name), force subclassing, use delegates as well |
| 15:11.04 | Elrond | zecke - Default handler can also be overriden by returning "True" instead of "False". That's the way x11 events are handled in Gtk. |
| 15:11.08 | mickeyl | zecke: in that case my gut feeling says signal+default handler |
| 15:11.47 | zecke | Elrond: I would have a signal with return type != G_TYPE_NONE how would that work? |
| 15:12.42 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 15:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko IR1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-59-68.net.novis.pt) |
| 15:15.14 | daxxar | WishList:BuiltinScriptingLanguages is funny |
| 15:15.20 | daxxar | (But if we're all lucky, a clear-minded concensus will prevail in everyone's understanding that Java just doesn't belong on an embedded device.) |
| 15:15.28 | daxxar | ... |
| 15:15.32 | SpeedEvil | It's not an embedded device. |
| 15:15.34 | daxxar | # If we're really lucky, people will realize that Java Virtual Machine belongs on embedded devices and has great performance there. |
| 15:15.36 | SpeedEvil | It's a desktop. |
| 15:16.10 | daxxar | I'm not arguing the fact, but that page contradicts itself - since it's based on people's opinions. ;P |
| 15:16.17 | SpeedEvil | It's a pentium 100 desktop that nobodies told it that it's a phone. |
| 15:16.45 | SpeedEvil | Java - as a scripting language - is insane though. |
| 15:19.21 | ewanm89_laptop | java is an insane language anyway. |
| 15:19.32 | ewanm89_laptop | Give me ruby anyday. |
| 15:20.20 | mwester | Perl |
| 15:20.27 | SpeedEvil | awk! |
| 15:20.31 | Qwell | sh |
| 15:21.03 | mwester | Aw, heck, let's just code everything in assembly. |
| 15:21.13 | writchie | amen |
| 15:21.17 | SpeedEvil | Can be more readable than perl. |
| 15:21.26 | ewon | I only write in Java when writing superwaba apps. And I only write for Superwaba because it lets me write cross-PDA gui apps relatively fast. |
| 15:21.35 | writchie | with the right macros asm is best |
| 15:21.39 | SpeedEvil | Though practically it has fundamental problems. |
| 15:21.45 | mwester | Java is today's version of COBOL |
| 15:21.49 | ewon | heh |
| 15:22.03 | SpeedEvil | Basically that modern CPUs with multiple execution units are hard for sane humans to write optimal code for. |
| 15:22.11 | writchie | cobol & java & vb - languages for the mongolian hoards |
| 15:22.39 | IR1 | writchie: what language whould you consider optimal ? |
| 15:23.05 | writchie | depends on application |
| 15:23.13 | writchie | c++ c or asm |
| 15:23.31 | writchie | all unsuitable for scripting |
| 15:23.43 | mwester | IMO, that's why one has multiple languages -- depends on the problem. SQL is a fine language -- for database queries. |
| 15:23.50 | ewanm89_laptop | ruby or php for scripting :) |
| 15:24.25 | ewanm89_laptop | vb is even worse than java. |
| 15:24.28 | mwester | We just need to agree on a fine language for scripting the device -- what has the best bindings to the UI, fits the device, and fits the type of developer and application being written |
| 15:24.37 | Dmitry_Platonov | haskell rules the world! |
| 15:24.46 | Elrond | zecke - Huh, I would need to check gtk sources, but signals can have return values. |
| 15:24.47 | writchie | what about python |
| 15:24.51 | ewanm89_laptop | No it doesn't ruby does. |
| 15:25.08 | ewanm89_laptop | eugh, python isn't freeform. |
| 15:25.11 | SpeedEvil | mwester: And is small. |
| 15:25.26 | SpeedEvil | Javascript! |
| 15:25.33 | SpeedEvil | +XUL+XBL |
| 15:25.38 | writchie | emacscript |
| 15:25.42 | SpeedEvil | Millions of firefox users can't be wrong. |
| 15:25.57 | writchie | why can't they be wrong? |
| 15:26.07 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: Accept I need a whole different javascript for IE. |
| 15:26.10 | writchie | millions of vb user can't be wrong? |
| 15:26.36 | writchie | i mean vb pseudo programmers |
| 15:26.39 | IR1 | writchie: one could say .... millions of windows user's can't be wrogn .... |
| 15:26.40 | IR1 | :P |
| 15:26.43 | ewanm89_laptop | The damn well are, idiots, think they can code, I'll show them real code. |
| 15:26.45 | noon | we use python for the gps test thing on the device. works fine for me |
| 15:27.11 | Qwell | python has too many wasted bytes in whitespace for an embedded device |
| 15:27.19 | Qwell | (yes, I'm trolling) |
| 15:27.26 | ewanm89_laptop | Qwell: I agree. |
| 15:27.38 | writchie | not for embedded with arm9 and gb of storage |
| 15:27.45 | ewanm89_laptop | I hate being forced to indent. |
| 15:27.49 | Elrond | Qwell - So we want sendmail-cf for scripting, great! ;-) |
| 15:27.59 | noon | Qwell: so we should use something broken like perl? |
| 15:28.01 | Qwell | yay m4 |
| 15:28.02 | writchie | with an m4 front-end |
| 15:28.11 | SpeedEvil | m4? |
| 15:28.13 | SpeedEvil | Wimp. |
| 15:28.23 | Elrond | No m4. sendmailCF, not sendmail.mc |
| 15:28.23 | writchie | gnu macro processor |
| 15:28.24 | ewanm89_laptop | ouch. |
| 15:28.44 | daxxar | 'Use voice recognition to unlock the phone. "Hi. My name is ... My voice is my passport. Verify me."' - Isn't that the string from Uplink? :-P |
| 15:28.46 | phrozen77 | yay, sendmail.cf \o/ |
| 15:29.15 | SpeedEvil | I wrote a sendmail.cf once. |
| 15:29.20 | Elrond | daxxar - If "uplink" is that movie, where they break into the bank at the beginning: Yes. |
| 15:29.44 | SpeedEvil | (to mail all messages of the form 0000.*NO_UCE to one user) |
| 15:29.54 | SpeedEvil | messages to |
| 15:30.06 | daxxar | Actually, I was referring to the PC game. Guess they stole it from somewhere else. ;-) |
| 15:30.09 | SpeedEvil | It was an idea to post each usenet message with a unique ID. |
| 15:30.18 | daxxar | (by Introversion) |
| 15:30.20 | SpeedEvil | This was just after the green card spam. |
| 15:30.32 | jgm | So did all of that result in some idea of what 'scripting' language should be used? I assume it's a toss-up between Ruby and Python, they're they flavours of the month... |
| 15:30.33 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0FBF1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:30.36 | ewanm89_laptop | uplink is a great game, was just playing it :) |
| 15:30.41 | SpeedEvil | This eventually lead to me recieving 7% of the entire incoming email for my ISP one day. |
| 15:30.57 | noon | ewanm89_laptop: does this game work under linux/debian? |
| 15:31.06 | ewanm89_laptop | noon: Of course. |
| 15:31.14 | SpeedEvil | jgm: It's ideally gotta be in under a few meg. |
| 15:31.24 | ScaredyCat | wasn't that quote from sneakers ? |
| 15:31.36 | ewanm89_laptop | noon: introversion.co.uk, grab the demo, and darwinaia and defcon, all 3 are great. |
| 15:31.40 | SpeedEvil | As you really want the base OS to fit on the internal RAM - which is 64M |
| 15:31.54 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-58-21.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:32.13 | jgm | How much space does the existing install take up i.e. how much is there to play with? |
| 15:32.44 | ewanm89_laptop | I might load them on to my neo, not sure on what to do with a few of the defcon and darwina controls (yet). |
| 15:33.15 | Elrond | daxxar - Sneakers: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105435/ |
| 15:34.35 | daxxar | Aha. :-) |
| 15:34.36 | noon | Elrond: in Sneakers the plot is all about a decrypting box. nothing with voice auth. |
| 15:34.55 | Elrond | noon - voice auth to get into cosmo's building. |
| 15:35.04 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 15:35.20 | Elrond | noon - The women needs to catch the relevant words from that one engineer. |
| 15:36.59 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:37.13 | ckuethe | "hi my name is werner brandes. my voice is my passport. verify me" |
| 15:37.28 | ckuethe | didn't even have to look that up... |
| 15:37.39 | buz | getting him to say passport proves near impossible tho |
| 15:38.05 | noon | Elrond: i only remember the infared scanner |
| 15:38.31 | ewon | "secure!" |
| 15:38.37 | ewon | *ppppffffssssssssssst* |
| 15:39.05 | buz | good luck boarding a plane then |
| 15:39.10 | ewon | heh :) |
| 15:39.48 | noon | ewon: you could plug a usb-rocket launcher onto the neo, no need to waste a GPIO :-) |
| 15:40.05 | ewon | nice :) |
| 15:40.12 | buz | or the usb red button to launch the thermite charge |
| 15:40.17 | mjr | noon, but then you'd need to get external power for it |
| 15:40.56 | buz | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/07/18/usb_nuclear_war_button_box/ |
| 15:41.30 | buz | i wonder if you can interface with the switches |
| 15:42.26 | ewanm89_laptop | !!!BIG READ BUTTON!!! |
| 15:42.55 | ewon | buttons are not HID devices alas, the thing just uses the USB for power |
| 15:42.58 | ewon | it's a pity |
| 15:43.10 | ewon | I looked into it a while back :) |
| 15:43.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Java]] [[Basic_End-user/fr]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Birmingham]] [[Category:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Norway]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Trondheim]] |
| 15:44.20 | ewanm89_laptop | ewon: I'm sure we could make a USB HID version. |
| 15:44.35 | jackey | anyone here in Toronto, Canada? |
| 15:45.45 | buz | mhh might need to build our own then |
| 15:45.51 | buz | take apart a usb mouse or so ;) |
| 15:46.23 | buz | gets you the hid part easily |
| 15:46.32 | Elrond | What... that thing is only a hub + taking power from usb? No usb-device on its own. And htey expect to get 36Eur for it? |
| 15:46.52 | buz | oh sure why not |
| 15:46.57 | buz | it looks killer ;) |
| 15:46.59 | buz | (pun intended) |
| 15:47.00 | noon | Elrond: a hub is a usb device :-) |
| 15:47.28 | buz | take cheap hub, add case and mouse ;) |
| 15:47.38 | Elrond | They could have made it 39Eur and use usbhid, job done. |
| 15:47.39 | noon | thats why you can't put 127 mouse onto your computer... |
| 15:48.18 | buz | heck use a usb numpad |
| 15:48.28 | buz | 16 buttons ;) |
| 15:48.49 | buz | i think i must build one of those ;) |
| 15:49.26 | noon | buz: cypress sells nice hid usb chips. the one i had my fingers on had 24 I/O |
| 15:49.40 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:49.48 | buz | i'm totally incapable of soldering |
| 15:50.07 | writchie | philips and stc make arm7 based usb devices for a couple bucks |
| 15:50.14 | Elrond | BTW: Can usbhid be abused for serial emulation? (yes, cdc_serial is better anyway) I think, I read somewhere, tht some devices abuse usbhid for this. |
| 15:50.59 | writchie | could be used for a crude serial but why bother |
| 15:51.06 | buz | 10? for a usb numpad |
| 15:51.07 | writchie | usbhid is report based |
| 15:51.17 | buz | including the usb hub ;) |
| 15:52.05 | buz | maybe add a webcam for good measure |
| 15:52.10 | buz | for iris auth |
| 15:52.14 | Elrond | *G* |
| 15:52.28 | noon | Elrond: usbhid is slow. |
| 15:52.37 | buz | THAT would actually be a good use for a cam on neo |
| 15:52.59 | Elrond | Does iris auth work with those tiny webcams? |
| 15:53.02 | Elrond | I doubt it. |
| 15:53.26 | buz | probably not |
| 15:53.37 | buz | you most likely need a cam that has some lighting of its own |
| 15:53.44 | buz | more of a scanner than a cam |
| 15:54.01 | noon | buz: you need a kewl blue or green laser for this to work |
| 15:54.21 | buz | plus point if it throws a line on the whole room |
| 15:54.25 | Elrond | Which brings us to "everything is better with lasers"(from the wiki). ;o) |
| 15:55.49 | Shoragan | mickeyl, pong |
| 15:56.21 | mickeyl | diving? nice. |
| 15:56.36 | mickeyl | Shoragan: when will you see stefan and daniel next time? |
| 15:57.19 | Shoragan | i don't know when daniel will return from the UK, probably later today |
| 15:57.24 | Shoragan | stefan perhaps monday |
| 15:57.26 | Elrond | Which reminds me... where's g_serial in the default kernel builds on buildhost? |
| 15:57.57 | mickeyl | Shoragan: ok. please tell them to give me a call. we need to schedule some work. August will be a tough month |
| 15:57.59 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 15:58.06 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: yes - with the caveat that you'd need a close focus lens. |
| 15:58.11 | Shoragan | ok |
| 15:58.14 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 15:58.36 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah, and most webcams don't have that, I'd guess. |
| 15:58.37 | Shoragan | i've started to port our patches for 2.6.22 |
| 15:58.46 | mickeyl | oh cool |
| 15:58.56 | mickeyl | 2.6.22 breaks a lot (again) on arm as I've heard |
| 15:58.59 | Elrond | Shoragan - Ahh, nice. :-) |
| 15:59.05 | Shoragan | is harald already working on it? |
| 15:59.31 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: The iris is around 1.5cm across - the idea is that you treat the iris as a 2D barcode basically. |
| 15:59.50 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: and most actually can - if they have manually variable focus. |
| 16:00.12 | mickeyl | Shoragan: i hardly doubt that |
| 16:00.17 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-61-62-105.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 16:00.19 | mdt | mokomakefilefails: http://pastebin.com/m1b717e72 any idea? |
| 16:00.52 | cesarb | mdt: this means you are using a too recent version of ubuntu |
| 16:01.00 | mdt | cesarb, i don't |
| 16:01.03 | cesarb | mdt: it has been discussed several times around here already |
| 16:01.09 | mdt | oups, sry |
| 16:01.27 | cesarb | mdt: it's an incompatibility with the most recent glibc |
| 16:01.53 | ewanm89_laptop | mdt: There is a patch in openembedded that works. |
| 16:01.58 | mdt | it is not mentioned in the wiki, or did i miss that? |
| 16:02.21 | Shoragan | mickeyl, how should i handle the asoc patch? some of it seems to have been merged in .22 |
| 16:02.28 | Elrond | mickeyl - BTW: Did you get to look at #631? |
| 16:02.43 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 16:04.00 | mdt | ewanm89_laptop, can u tell me a url where to find that? |
| 16:05.20 | ewanm89_laptop | http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/coreutils/coreutils-5.3.0 |
| 16:06.06 | mickeyl | Elrond: not yet, no |
| 16:06.30 | mickeyl | atm. i'm unable to look at any bugs. hopefully in a couple of weeks -- after the p1 snapshot release |
| 16:06.33 | ewanm89_laptop | Put it in the same place in local tree and overwrite the coreutils-5.3.0 bb file with the one from http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/coreutils |
| 16:06.59 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:07.13 | cesarb | mickeyl: you are the one who is managing the distribution, right? |
| 16:07.31 | cesarb | mickeyl: I'm trying to make things compile with EABI, and will post a guide on the wiki after I make it work |
| 16:08.04 | Elrond | mickeyl - It's a patch only. ;o) |
| 16:08.07 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@69-17-146-104.kingkom.com) |
| 16:08.29 | mickeyl | cesarb: cool. |
| 16:09.37 | Shoragan | mickeyl, i'll skip the alsa stuff for now... if the rest works, alsa should be easier |
| 16:09.50 | mickeyl | Shoragan: ya |
| 16:10.36 | mdt | ewanm89_laptop, wouldn't it be helpful to put that info into the wiki? so newbies like me don't have to ask here? |
| 16:10.45 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-152-200-41.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:11.11 | cesarb | mdt: it took until yesterday IIRC for it to be put on the wiki the FAQ that you need gcc 3.4 or 3.3 installed to compile qemu |
| 16:11.28 | cesarb | mdt: so, expect it to take a few more weeks until it gets put on the wiki page ;-) |
| 16:11.33 | ewanm89_laptop | mdt: I only found the exact details this morning, when the patch in the openmoko bugzilla didn't work. |
| 16:12.17 | mdt | ... replacing the .bb alone does not work, it needs the actual patch also. where can i find that? |
| 16:12.57 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@e178209180.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:13.23 | ewanm89_laptop | mdt: In the first link I gave. |
| 16:13.44 | ewanm89_laptop | http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/coreutils/coreutils-5.3.0 |
| 16:14.50 | Kensan | mdt: you could add that info to the wiki yourself. ;) |
| 16:15.02 | mdt | Kensan, can i? |
| 16:15.43 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: http://richtlijn.be/~larstiq/neo/owners.txt\ |
| 16:15.55 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:16.03 | Kensan | mdt: every registered user can edit the wiki. |
| 16:17.23 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: glibc |
| 16:17.24 | mokobot | Grab futimens.patch from http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/coreutils/coreutils-5.3.0 and replace the coreutils_5.3.0.bb file with the one from http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/coreutils/ |
| 16:18.05 | ScaredyCat | nice LarstiQ .. but what happened to the last one |
| 16:19.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 646 has been created by cesarb(AT)cesarb.net |
| 16:19.01 | cdbot2 | * * Bashism on linux-gta01.inc |
| 16:19.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=646 |
| 16:19.17 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-210-79.netcologne.de) |
| 16:19.54 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: some people insist on not following conventions, not filling in order ids, etc |
| 16:20.04 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 16:20.08 | LarstiQ | ScaredyCat: they get sorted at the end ;) |
| 16:20.19 | ScaredyCat | where they belong ;) |
| 16:20.41 | LarstiQ | anyway, the script to produce the output is next to it |
| 16:23.12 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 16:24.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 647 has been created by cesarb(AT)cesarb.net |
| 16:24.01 | cdbot2 | * * linux-gta01.inc uses wrong objcopy |
| 16:24.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=647 |
| 16:28.05 | mdt | okay, thanks alot, it works, i wrote something in the wiki about that... |
| 16:28.51 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: glibc | mtd |
| 16:28.57 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: glibc |
| 16:28.58 | mokobot | Grab futimens.patch from http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/coreutils/coreutils-5.3.0 and replace the coreutils_5.3.0.bb file with the one from http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/coreutils/ |
| 16:29.30 | ewanm89_laptop | mdt: I put it there too. |
| 16:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
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| 16:42.29 | *** part/#openmoko IR1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-59-68.net.novis.pt) |
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| 16:59.26 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:00.30 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=Ojw@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:02.25 | almien | hi. any idea what raster graphics libraries (e.g. GD, Magick, Cairo) will be available on openmoko? |
| 17:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 17:02.49 | koen | anything you want |
| 17:02.56 | ewon | 5 DOLLAH |
| 17:03.11 | noon | bye |
| 17:03.30 | ewanm89_laptop | cairo would be nice, but it's quite intensive on the cpu. |
| 17:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-196-210-79.netcologne.de) |
| 17:04.35 | ewanm89_laptop | ~lart ewon |
| 17:04.35 | apt | readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at ewon |
| 17:04.44 | koen | ewanm89_laptop: every raster lib is |
| 17:04.54 | koen | ewanm89_laptop: at least cairo is fixed-point inside |
| 17:05.07 | ewanm89_laptop | I thought of that after I hit enter. |
| 17:05.16 | buz | anyone know what the difference between us and eu wifi is? number of channels? |
| 17:05.32 | koen | buz: none |
| 17:05.42 | koen | buz: 802.11g is 802.11g |
| 17:05.52 | ewanm89_laptop | koen: There are differences. |
| 17:05.54 | buz | yeah but not all jurisdictionsa llow all channels |
| 17:06.14 | ewanm89_laptop | I'm not sure on the exact details. |
| 17:06.23 | BryceLeo_Away | isn't us usually configured for 6 and up |
| 17:06.33 | BryceLeo_Away | eu 5 and down? |
| 17:06.50 | CoreDump|afk | US is channel 1 to 11 and EU 1 to 14or something like that |
| 17:06.53 | buz | i have linksys eu equipment, that goes from 1 to 11 |
| 17:07.06 | buz | ithink i could patch it to go to 14 |
| 17:07.20 | BryceLeo_Away | you lucky EU bucko's |
| 17:07.25 | BryceLeo_Away | anywhoo back to potter |
| 17:07.35 | ewanm89_laptop | I should know them, I plan to make some ham equipment on that band, um must check. (yes it's a amateur radio band too). |
| 17:08.44 | Elrond | CoreDump|afk - *ping* |
| 17:09.09 | CoreDump|afk | pong |
| 17:09.11 | *** join/#openmoko natgeo (n=anon@148-127.94-24.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 17:09.33 | Elrond | CoreDump|afk - I somehow remember, that you live near FFM? |
| 17:09.44 | CoreDump|afk | well, cologne |
| 17:10.01 | Elrond | Huh, okay, I was quite wrong. ;o) |
| 17:10.01 | loufoque | ewanm89_laptop: the GTA02 has a GPU |
| 17:10.02 | CoreDump|afk | I read the backlog ;) |
| 17:10.17 | Elrond | CoreDump|afk - Okay. ;-) |
| 17:10.42 | loufoque | Elrond: do they ship neos to Rivendell? |
| 17:10.44 | ewanm89_laptop | loufoque: Yes, I suppose it'll be feasible then. |
| 17:10.52 | *** join/#openmoko _diego__ (n=diego@host-84-222-15-94.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:11.00 | Elrond | loufoque - They did already. ;o) |
| 17:11.06 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A850D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:11.27 | loufoque | Elrond: prove it with nifty pictures |
| 17:11.56 | ewanm89_laptop | Pictures can lie. |
| 17:12.20 | Elrond | loufoque - http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/sets/72157600292781326/ |
| 17:12.43 | loufoque | Elrond: but.... it's not orange! |
| 17:12.48 | pH5 | heh, and it seems they even have GPS coverage in middle earth. |
| 17:13.25 | Elrond | pH5 - It's very bad. ;o) |
| 17:14.14 | Elrond | loufoque - Why should it be orange? |
| 17:15.12 | loufoque | because it's orange on the website |
| 17:15.33 | Elrond | loufoque - When you order it, you can choose the color. |
| 17:15.47 | Vegar | what happened to the green neos? |
| 17:15.55 | Elrond | green? Huh? |
| 17:16.00 | BryceLeo_Away | Vegar: if there were green neo's i'd have bought one already |
| 17:16.01 | Elrond | I never saw a green one |
| 17:16.25 | Vegar | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html |
| 17:16.30 | Elrond | loufoque - Hint: I have GTA01Bv03 ;o) |
| 17:16.34 | Vegar | green and red |
| 17:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 17:17.13 | BryceLeo_Away | ahh Vegar those are just mock ups |
| 17:17.25 | BryceLeo_Away | now that they exist they've got a diferent color scheme |
| 17:17.37 | ewanm89_laptop | loufoque: There are 2 colour schemes available atm, orange and white, or black and silver. |
| 17:17.38 | Vegar | ah, just like I thought |
| 17:18.12 | MrFeetio | ok, so how many people in here have a neo |
| 17:18.20 | ewanm89_laptop | The green and white does look quite good. |
| 17:18.30 | SpeedEvil | About a dozen or so in channel. |
| 17:18.35 | SpeedEvil | Of various releases. |
| 17:18.53 | BryceLeo_Away | if they had the green and white ones, i'd own it, i'm a sucker for anything green |
| 17:19.01 | BryceLeo_Away | lol Vegar you're a jerk |
| 17:19.13 | Vegar | what did I donow? |
| 17:19.15 | Vegar | do now* |
| 17:19.16 | BryceLeo_Away | in the article Sean says " FIC has the capacity to ship 100,000 of the phones per month, Moss-Pultz said, explaining its low cost. " |
| 17:19.27 | BryceLeo_Away | and we're F*ing waiting for a copule thousand |
| 17:19.36 | Vegar | hehe |
| 17:19.38 | SpeedEvil | They can ship 100000 to one location. |
| 17:19.52 | SpeedEvil | Shipping 100000 to 98000 locations is rather different. |
| 17:19.57 | SpeedEvil | And something they've never done. |
| 17:20.00 | BryceLeo_Away | it doesn't say that, and to say ship XXX per month implies out of factory |
| 17:20.22 | BryceLeo_Away | but i doubt demand has reached 10K yet |
| 17:20.26 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 17:20.30 | BryceLeo_Away | not even 5 K probably |
| 17:20.36 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't say that. |
| 17:20.38 | BryceLeo_Away | and that's terribly generous |
| 17:20.45 | SpeedEvil | But FIC has never dealt with customers before. |
| 17:20.51 | SpeedEvil | Only buisnesses. |
| 17:20.52 | ckuethe | consumers. |
| 17:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.211) |
| 17:21.01 | ckuethe | businesses are generally the customer |
| 17:21.11 | ckuethe | who order 100k units to this or that warehouse |
| 17:21.15 | SpeedEvil | Not end users - rather |
| 17:21.42 | ewon | they need themselves a distributer |
| 17:21.48 | ckuethe | maybe go on a field trip to dell... see how they managed to do it without imploding |
| 17:21.56 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot_ (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.211) |
| 17:21.59 | ewon | dell employ packing monkeys |
| 17:22.11 | ewon | I know this as there was a big Dell factory beside my university |
| 17:22.48 | loufoque | ewon: how do they raise them? |
| 17:22.53 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.211) |
| 17:22.58 | loufoque | ewon: what race of monkeys do they use? |
| 17:23.05 | ewon | loufoque: students, local unskilled labour |
| 17:23.09 | ckuethe | so at some point in the future, when demand is likely to justify it, fic/openmoko.com needs to get packing monkeys too. |
| 17:23.23 | SpeedEvil | I read the current situation as vastly overthinking the shipping thing. |
| 17:23.28 | ewon | ckuethe: or ship them a palette at a time to a distributer |
| 17:23.37 | ckuethe | outsourced packing monkeys. |
| 17:23.38 | BryceLeo_Away | Speed did you see Harold's rant? |
| 17:23.46 | cjb_ie | ewon: or even a pallet :-) |
| 17:23.48 | SpeedEvil | Trying to setup a fully featured cheap shipping solution at the start. |
| 17:23.49 | MrFeetio | I can't wait till openmoko runs on the iphone and Prada |
| 17:23.51 | ewon | cjb_ie: indeed |
| 17:24.00 | SpeedEvil | And then not testing it long enough beforehand. |
| 17:24.15 | ewon | outsource the online shop, outsource the shipping, problem solved. |
| 17:24.21 | cjb_ie | ewon: ...unless you're talking a unique colour for each moko...? |
| 17:24.29 | ckuethe | buying dev kits in general seems to suck |
| 17:24.32 | ewon | cjb_ie: I hate you. |
| 17:25.18 | ckuethe | the last few gps dev kits i bought were all shipped from the companies' headquarters, and packed by some manager / senior secretary |
| 17:25.40 | loufoque | ckuethe: FIC is chinese, they don't need to outsource anything |
| 17:25.43 | cjb_ie | ckuethe: microchip is the only company i've found who get dev kits right |
| 17:25.58 | SpeedEvil | They need to outsource to someone with a clue on shipping. |
| 17:26.02 | cjb_ie | and mostly they do that by treating them as regular line items for sale by distributors |
| 17:26.08 | ckuethe | if you're desperately looking for rationalization, be glad that you're helping to debug an opensource shipping process :P |
| 17:26.24 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
| 17:26.26 | SpeedEvil | cjb: most companies seem to have gone that route nowadays. |
| 17:26.38 | Elrond | OpenShip? ;o) |
| 17:26.39 | cjb_ie | ...and making them surprisingly cheap (at a rough guess, maybe 50% of what you'd pay for a similar board without a 'dev kit' label on it) |
| 17:26.50 | BryceLeo_Away | ckuethe: lol |
| 17:27.26 | cjb_ie | it's just a no-brainer, even for the stingiest of bosses, to buy the dev kit rather than having a developer (me) work in the dark with nothing to test code on etc |
| 17:27.44 | ckuethe | just remember that they ship a package/packet to test, then they have to recompile their shipping procedure... |
| 17:27.45 | cjb_ie | erm. not that i wish to sound bitter or anything... |
| 17:27.52 | ewon | console devkits are a different matter |
| 17:28.03 | ewon | the one sitting on my desk costs roughly 5 times the cost of my car |
| 17:28.33 | BryceLeo_Away | the GC devkit was reasonable |
| 17:28.38 | cjb_ie | ewon: what is it, just a console with a debug board in it? |
| 17:28.56 | cjb_ie | and maybe a PC hanging off the debug board. |
| 17:28.56 | BryceLeo_Away | ewon what console? |
| 17:28.57 | ewon | cjb_ie: yeah, larger hard disk, more NICs etc |
| 17:29.08 | ewon | BryceLeo_Away: E_NOTALLOWED |
| 17:29.14 | cjb_ie | BryceLeo_Away: if he tells you he has to kill you ;-) |
| 17:29.29 | BryceLeo_Away | lol |
| 17:29.31 | BryceLeo_Away | uhhuh |
| 17:30.06 | BryceLeo_Away | so does the mean you're one of those behind the "Phantom game console" |
| 17:30.12 | ewon | hah, no |
| 17:30.24 | ckuethe | psp? |
| 17:30.35 | ewon | I work for a company called Demonware |
| 17:30.42 | cjb_ie | omg he's given away information! he's working on a real console that actually exists... maybe... nless he's doing the plausible deniability thing. |
| 17:30.55 | BryceLeo_Away | hahahahaha |
| 17:31.06 | ckuethe | i was going to ask him various consoles, and guess the one that he took the longest to deny |
| 17:31.16 | ewon | heh |
| 17:31.23 | *** join/#openmoko devilCMKRNL (n=devilCMK@adsl-216-103-214-183.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 17:31.24 | Elrond | ckuethe - *lol* |
| 17:31.35 | Elrond | timing attack. ;o) |
| 17:31.49 | ckuethe | those are the best conversations... the one where the informant says "no comment", after a significant pause |
| 17:31.59 | CoreDump|afk | hehe |
| 17:32.08 | ckuethe | is it this? |
| 17:32.08 | ckuethe | no comment. |
| 17:32.13 | ewanm89_laptop | Maybe you can figure it from the games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DemonWare |
| 17:32.16 | cjb_ie | you fail to realise that ewan has a sleep(random) before answering every question to defeat such attacks. |
| 17:32.19 | BryceLeo_Away | lol oh come on I be he's working on the DreamCast2 |
| 17:32.19 | ckuethe | is it that? |
| 17:32.19 | ckuethe | no comment. |
| 17:32.40 | ckuethe | is it $something_else? |
| 17:32.40 | ckuethe | *awkward pause* |
| 17:32.40 | ckuethe | no comment |
| 17:32.57 | CoreDump|afk | is it $something_else? |
| 17:33.03 | cjb_ie | ckuethe: possibly with a slightly more exasperated tone |
| 17:33.07 | Elrond | cjb_ie - I hope he uses physical random number generator. :) |
| 17:33.10 | CoreDump|afk | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:33.16 | ckuethe | he may have a random sleep, but his random is an LCPRNG |
| 17:33.23 | CoreDump|afk | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:33.28 | ckuethe | and this assumes he's actually trying to not disclose |
| 17:33.50 | ewon | huh, I didn't realise we had a Wikipedia page :) |
| 17:34.13 | ckuethe | if the DK is 5x the cost of a car i was figuring it would be a M$ product |
| 17:34.42 | cjb_ie | ckuethe: well, you'll note he didn't specify what the car cost. |
| 17:34.46 | ckuethe | xb360, or the as-yet-unannounced new hotness |
| 17:35.18 | ewon | ckuethe: depends on the car :) |
| 17:35.37 | ckuethe | Nx cost of car, or Nx cost of house... great shorthand for the cost of microsoft products |
| 17:35.42 | cjb_ie | ewon: i'll give you a fiver for it. |
| 17:35.43 | ckuethe | and don't get me started on veritas... |
| 17:35.57 | ewon | cjb_ie: no. |
| 17:36.11 | ewanm89_laptop | ewon: tenner? |
| 17:36.32 | ewon | er, no :) |
| 17:36.41 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 17:36.41 | cjb_ie | ewon: three quid |
| 17:36.44 | ewon | woo, bad-tasting espresso kicked in, back to work |
| 17:36.54 | ewanm89_laptop | :( |
| 17:36.58 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 17:37.36 | BryceLeo_Away | ya know after all this ewon is gonna say "i was really just yankin ya leg) |
| 17:38.02 | ckuethe | sure, but this is more fun than mowing the lawn or cleaning the cat's litterbox |
| 17:38.10 | BryceLeo_Away | lol |
| 17:38.21 | cjb_ie | ckuethe: ugh, why did you have to remind me |
| 17:38.47 | ckuethe | only 1. |
| 17:39.09 | ewanm89_laptop | I have a grand total of 0 to worry about. |
| 17:39.19 | ckuethe | it only took a couple months but training him to realize that being the fuzzy hungry alarm doesn't work |
| 17:39.29 | ewanm89_laptop | Same as the number of neos ordered :( |
| 17:39.50 | cjb_ie | ewanm89_laptop: i didn't order one either if it's any consolation |
| 17:40.00 | cjb_ie | i'll be gagging for the 02 though |
| 17:40.02 | BryceLeo_Away | i've got a chinchilla and a bunny |
| 17:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
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| 17:41.23 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: But I want to order one, but I physically can't :( |
| 17:41.57 | cjb_ie | i would've liked to, but i just don't have the time to devote to care and feeding |
| 17:42.33 | cjb_ie | anyway. no doubt there'll be a glut of them on ebay soon enough when people who buy them realise what "not consumer ready" actually means |
| 17:42.52 | SpeedEvil | IMO, a buyback scheme would make sense. |
| 17:43.01 | SpeedEvil | Or maybe just ebay would work OK. |
| 17:43.08 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: lol, but I can't order from ebay either. |
| 17:43.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware_-_Atmospheric]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/fr]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bucharest]] [[Talk:Java]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Ambient_light_sensor]] [[Sound_Field]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers/fr]] and other changes |
| 17:43.18 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: Why not? |
| 17:43.21 | cjb_ie | ewanm89_laptop: right, but you probably know someone who can. |
| 17:44.06 | *** join/#openmoko calamou1 (n=harry@c-67-175-201-140.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:44.08 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: the ebay thing might work out nicely for actual developers - idiot consumer types get to buy the phone, pay an import charges etc, and then go "oh crap" and sell it |
| 17:44.12 | ewanm89_laptop | parents wouldn't use there credit card on ebay. |
| 17:44.31 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: 95% of sellers will accept cash in an envelope. |
| 17:44.33 | calamou1 | Good afternoon gentlemen |
| 17:44.47 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-126-182.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 17:46.56 | calamou1 | Anyone know of any tracking number emails? |
| 17:46.56 | aloril | calamou1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:49.34 | *** part/#openmoko calamou1 (n=harry@c-67-175-201-140.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
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| 18:05.46 | cesarb | It's still compiling (and using an insane amount of disk space), but I have a list of what I did to compile openmoko for EABI at [[User:CesarB/Compiling for EABI]] |
| 18:06.49 | woglinde | hm? |
| 18:06.59 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:07.09 | woglinde | using angstroem and be fine |
| 18:07.39 | woglinde | or do you mean the mokoapss themself |
| 18:08.34 | cesarb | Could someone with a unmodified openmoko build setup tell me how many directories it creates on build/tmp/work/arm*linux? |
| 18:09.20 | cesarb | woglinde: I'm compiling everything under eabi, except for the uboot (which doesn't seem to accept eabi) |
| 18:09.44 | cesarb | woglinde: that page is if someone else wants to also do it |
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| 18:09.56 | woglinde | hm yes but that is in openembbed for serval months |
| 18:10.22 | cesarb | woglinde: I'm using the old openembedded openmoko uses for now |
| 18:10.31 | cesarb | woglinde: it's just a test to see how it goes ;-) |
| 18:10.39 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 18:11.08 | Aria | Dude. I finally got glibc-intermediate to build. |
| 18:11.37 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 18:11.41 | BryceLeo_Away | Aria: were you the one that posted the bugzilla patch? |
| 18:12.10 | Aria | Nope. |
| 18:12.19 | BryceLeo_Away | ahh |
| 18:12.26 | Aria | Still learning the ropes of the OE build system too much to know how to properly patch things yet. |
| 18:12.30 | Aria | I'll get there though. |
| 18:13.38 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@86.154.5.248) |
| 18:14.17 | BryceLeo_Away | yeah that whole quilt thing is really odd |
| 18:14.28 | Aria | quilt+mtn+svn, oy. |
| 18:14.50 | Aria | I'm used to my distro's build system, which keeps build system and package definitions very unentangled. |
| 18:14.52 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@86.154.5.248) |
| 18:15.47 | BryceLeo_Away | Aria: whats your distro? |
| 18:15.55 | Aria | PLD |
| 18:16.01 | Aria | RPM-based. |
| 18:17.49 | BryceLeo_Away | intersting |
| 18:18.20 | Aria | The only entanglement the two have is that rpmbuild provides a set of macros, which the distro HAS customized |
| 18:18.53 | Aria | But the entire emphasis is on taking the author's upstream source, annotating with patches, and building. Keeping things so separate makes it really pleasant to push things upstream |
| 18:19.21 | ewon | I fucking hate rpmbuild. |
| 18:19.30 | Aria | whose rpmbuild? |
| 18:19.37 | Aria | rpm.org or redhat? |
| 18:19.47 | *** join/#openmoko cibomahto (n=metsmatt@ip215.coronado-crossing.phx.ygnition.net) |
| 18:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko sindbad1900 (n=lucian@86.125.48.111) |
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| 18:21.14 | *** part/#openmoko sindbad1900 (n=lucian@86.125.48.111) |
| 18:21.34 | BryceLeo_Away | Aria: that's not too bad a setup |
| 18:22.21 | Aria | No, it works well. |
| 18:22.35 | Aria | Keeping cleverness to a minimum, not metaprogramming makes things really unentangled. |
| 18:22.46 | Aria | A bit of cut-and-paste coding. But that's really not a bad thing. |
| 18:23.14 | BryceLeo_Away | yeah but most cut and paste can just be done with a couple patches |
| 18:23.30 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 18:23.38 | jaebird | hey sagacis! |
| 18:24.46 | ewanm89_laptop | Yes, a full openmoko build. |
| 18:26.03 | Aria | Yeah. We've run massive sed scripts on our rpm spec files a bundle of times. |
| 18:26.16 | *** join/#openmoko Kosake (n=Andreas@stgt-590ef0ae.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 18:26.43 | Aria | And they work. Now and then, we find somethng not up to date -- that's what build tests are for! -- and it gets fixed. But get a PLD spec, and aside from a few macros that don't translate across distros, you get a damn good overview of how to go from the author's source to working. |
| 18:30.48 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
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| 18:34.28 | DukeOfURL | are the credit card charges happening in any particular order? I'm #1970 and haven't seen anything... |
| 18:34.32 | orospakr | OK, this is so weird: I'm looking at a phone case, and it says: "Includes hibernization magnet to help maximize battery life." |
| 18:34.41 | orospakr | what the crap is that? |
| 18:35.03 | orospakr | do some phones have some kind of magnetic leaf switch that makes them go into powersave mode? |
| 18:35.16 | cjb_ie | certainly seen it in laptops |
| 18:35.27 | cjb_ie | magnet in lid, reed switch in body of laptop |
| 18:35.38 | cjb_ie | rather than having a prong that's pushed down when the lid closes |
| 18:37.08 | cibomahto | I had a slider phone with something of that nature in it |
| 18:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:38.47 | Elrond | <SpeedEvil> It's not an embedded device. |
| 18:38.47 | Elrond | <SpeedEvil> It's a desktop. |
| 18:38.47 | Elrond | <SpeedEvil> It's a pentium 100 desktop that nobodies told it that it's a phone. |
| 18:38.51 | Elrond | hehe, I like this one. :-) |
| 18:39.33 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 18:40.08 | Aria | HEhe |
| 18:45.31 | idarwin | orospakr, many (all?) modern Blackberry devices use this technique as well; the holster they ship includes the magnet. Can lock-on-holster too if paranoid. |
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| 18:47.38 | *** join/#openmoko Placid (n=placid@unaffiliated/placid) |
| 18:48.27 | orospakr | idarwin: that explains it. The reason why I'm asking is because my carrier is having a little "appreciation" promotion, and they're giving away cases. but there's only two options, with a list of compatible dimensions. |
| 18:48.33 | orospakr | thus far, I've just been comparing dimensons. |
| 18:48.39 | orospakr | s/dimensons/dimensions/ |
| 18:48.48 | *** join/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.97) |
| 18:49.06 | orospakr | naturally, I want to use it with my Neo. :) |
| 18:49.20 | orospakr | pockets are a cruel environment to technology :P |
| 18:49.56 | orospakr | http://tinyurl.com/2yarvj |
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| 18:58.30 | jaebird | i'm not sure how they are figuring out when to charge cc |
| 18:58.38 | jaebird | i was charged yesterday |
| 18:59.14 | jaebird | but a friend of mine (who ordered before me) has not yet been charged |
| 18:59.41 | cesarb | jaebird: both are the same kind of card (visa/mastercard)? |
| 18:59.49 | jaebird | there was only 1hr difference to the YES_I_DO email |
| 18:59.55 | cesarb | jaebird: because they might be looking at only one of them for now |
| 19:00.10 | jaebird | maybe, mine was visa |
| 19:00.29 | jaebird | anybody use debit card? |
| 19:01.10 | jaebird | mine was normal visa |
| 19:01.40 | jaebird | it just seems strange that there wouldn't be a logical progression |
| 19:01.56 | jaebird | what if the run out of devices before the earlier orders are completed |
| 19:02.01 | jaebird | that doesn't seem fair |
| 19:03.15 | *** join/#openmoko fiveplusone (n=six@dyn-160-39-254-220.dyn.columbia.edu) |
| 19:03.20 | Vegar | do you and your friend live in the same area? |
| 19:03.27 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 19:03.32 | jaebird | yep...down the road |
| 19:03.54 | jaebird | sagacis..on this chan actually |
| 19:04.06 | jaebird | also on the P1 wiki page |
| 19:04.21 | jaebird | it just seems a little bazaar to me |
| 19:04.48 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.113) |
| 19:04.51 | jaebird | maybe they took all the orders and threw them down the stairs... |
| 19:05.02 | jaebird | then charged based on the step they landed on :) |
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| 19:06.01 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 19:06.01 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
| 19:06.19 | Vegar | jaebird: maybe your friend's bank doesn't do transactions during weekends? |
| 19:06.22 | ynezz | jaebird: what was your # ? |
| 19:06.35 | Vegar | so he'll be charged tomorrow |
| 19:06.40 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.53 | jaebird | 1932 |
| 19:06.56 | ynezz | mine is 1952 and not charged yet |
| 19:07.19 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@wlan-client-315.informatik.uni-bremen.de) |
| 19:07.45 | jaebird | the P1 page has #2233 already charged |
| 19:07.55 | ynezz | yep |
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| 19:09.48 | *** join/#openmoko Hutley (n=hutleyvx@200-100-173-83.dial-up.telesp.net.br) |
| 19:10.00 | jaebird | that is why i'm wondering how they are processing. |
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| 19:17.04 | edistar | anyone got their phone yet? |
| 19:17.56 | jaebird | edistar: joking? |
| 19:23.03 | grobian_ | how about an application to configure your wifi device depending on where you are. (GPS) Hotspot @ home or Hotspot @ work ..... |
| 19:24.55 | edistar | jaebird: sry ;) |
| 19:25.32 | jaebird | edistar: actually P0 devels have their phones :) |
| 19:26.03 | jaebird | this is kinda like pushing rope |
| 19:30.25 | SpeedEvil | grobian_: tis on the wiki |
| 19:34.48 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 19:35.13 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-28-77.cust.wildblue.net) |
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| 19:39.04 | grobian_ | ok |
| 19:42.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[External_Feeds]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware_-_Atmospheric]] [[Talk:Java]] [[Java]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Bucharest]] [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[User:CesarB/Compiling_for_EABI]] [[User_talk:WikiSysop]] [[User:Johan]] [[Help_talk:Contents]] and other changes |
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| 19:59.25 | daMaestro | lol...! |
| 19:59.29 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 19:59.33 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 19:59.37 | daMaestro | so my bank turned off my credit card when FIC charged me |
| 19:59.50 | cjb_ie | they rejected the payment? |
| 19:59.59 | daMaestro | way to go FIC... you are on some horrible black list |
| 20:00.15 | daMaestro | no, my bank allowed it to pre-auth... but locked my account after the pre-auth |
| 20:00.32 | daMaestro | (aka ... they would have not really paid the request for funds) |
| 20:00.40 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@76.203.161.153) |
| 20:00.47 | daMaestro | i tired to buy a latte today and my card was rejected! |
| 20:00.51 | daMaestro | wtg, FIC ;-) |
| 20:00.51 | daMaestro | lol |
| 20:01.02 | *** part/#openmoko inazouma (n=gcasse@bdy93-1-82-67-223-79.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko Sublime (n=Sublime@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 20:01.26 | daMaestro | luckly i had cash, and all i had to do was call fraud protection to authorize the charge and my card is active again |
| 20:01.33 | ScaredyCat | you tried to buy a latte on your credit card? |
| 20:01.35 | mwester | Was that Citibank, but chance? |
| 20:01.43 | daMaestro | mwester, no |
| 20:01.46 | daMaestro | ScaredyCat, sure |
| 20:01.59 | daMaestro | ScaredyCat, it's a nice way to track expenses |
| 20:02.11 | mwester | Citibank left my wife and two daughters stranded in Spain, because they used the credit card to purchase fuel before returning the rental car. |
| 20:02.23 | ScaredyCat | fair enough... but don't they usually have a minimum charge |
| 20:02.34 | daMaestro | ScaredyCat, some places, yes |
| 20:02.45 | cjb_ie | MBNA left me stranded in cuba, because they promised me my card would work there. |
| 20:02.52 | daMaestro | ScaredyCat, i'm such a regular.. it's no big deal |
| 20:02.58 | ScaredyCat | mwester: I presume you don't bank with them now |
| 20:03.10 | guaqua | you sure have lousy banks |
| 20:03.14 | mwester | Nope. Switched to Discover. |
| 20:03.16 | cjb_ie | cuba for two weeks on $100 would have been interesting, but i managed to get some money wired to me through the embassy. |
| 20:03.39 | cjb_ie | (the cheapest, nastiest, illegal accom starts at around $15/night) |
| 20:03.41 | daMaestro | guaqua, it's more there is *sooooo much* fraud... there are a *lot* of automatic systems that just turn off the cards |
| 20:03.44 | mwester | guaqua: yes - I agree! They miss the whole POINT of having a credit card -- it's so that I don't have to carry local CASH ! |
| 20:04.06 | cjb_ie | in some countries the supermarkets don't take credit cards, only debit cards |
| 20:04.17 | cjb_ie | which is a pita |
| 20:04.51 | ScaredyCat | .nl they don't take cc in supermarkets |
| 20:04.57 | daMaestro | i was just really surprised, with FIC being such a large company... that a bank would think they are fraudulent creditors |
| 20:05.02 | mwester | ScaredyCat: I've since found that disabling credit cards at the worst possible time is a very common experience with Citibank -- apparently they are very aggresive about it, and not at all apologetic about leaving you without an operable credit card. |
| 20:05.09 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: yeah, that caught me out |
| 20:05.17 | ScaredyCat | which was interesting the first time I loaded up 2 trollys of shopping |
| 20:05.46 | ScaredyCat | mwester: crappy bank.. ( like them all I guess) |
| 20:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 20:06.58 | daMaestro | well, the issue is once the bank authorizes a debit or credit, they are responsible for paying it; a lot of banks offer zero end consumer liability .... so to control costs, they have all these automated systems to ensure profits stay high |
| 20:07.33 | guaqua | works in a different way in finland |
| 20:07.53 | ScaredyCat | I know visa etc are starting with this 3d-auth shite soon... |
| 20:08.04 | daMaestro | most consumers are *stupid* (for lack of a better word) to not hold their credit information with private confidence because they are at ease with zero-fraud liability |
| 20:08.10 | cesarb | daMaestro: FIC might be a large company, but they are using some strange scheme with a taiwan bank |
| 20:08.10 | guaqua | there's one central authority which provides the connections and takes care of issues that raise with fraud |
| 20:08.23 | daMaestro | cesarb, yes.. very true |
| 20:08.30 | cesarb | daMaestro: which is why the value is being charged in a uncommon currency |
| 20:08.30 | daMaestro | cesarb, that is why my card was deactivated |
| 20:08.45 | ynezz | ouch |
| 20:08.50 | cjb_ie | they should really just have let a distributor handle the whole thing tbh |
| 20:09.49 | cjb_ie | farnell, digikey or similar |
| 20:10.04 | cjb_ie | farnell's pretty much worldwide isn't it? |
| 20:10.14 | daMaestro | yeah... the damn email said i was going to save on shipping.. but it was still $20 |
| 20:10.22 | daMaestro | so i saved *nothing* |
| 20:10.33 | daMaestro | ScaredyCat, i hope so |
| 20:10.40 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 20:10.50 | daMaestro | ScaredyCat, it should be PIN + signature everywhere |
| 20:11.04 | ScaredyCat | that' no protection at all |
| 20:11.24 | ScaredyCat | for a start most stores in the US don;t check signatures anyway.. |
| 20:11.25 | daMaestro | ScaredyCat, or we should have a separate smart card or auth system via our phone.. i don't know |
| 20:11.42 | daMaestro | well you can't... i just scribble... and it's my card! |
| 20:11.42 | daMaestro | lol |
| 20:11.43 | ScaredyCat | and there have been a number of issues with 'hacked' pin machnes |
| 20:11.44 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: like the good old zug story |
| 20:11.55 | cjb_ie | (re checking signatures) |
| 20:11.58 | ScaredyCat | yeah cjb_ie |
| 20:12.03 | ScaredyCat | the whale one ;) |
| 20:12.04 | guaqua | a list of passwords for authenticating with the bank is probably the best way |
| 20:12.21 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: oh... i don't remember a whale |
| 20:12.24 | daMaestro | sadly... no US consumer will *ever* remember a list |
| 20:12.28 | ynezz | sms is enough |
| 20:12.36 | daMaestro | they can barely deal with a 4 digit pin |
| 20:12.39 | daMaestro | ynezz, now that is scary |
| 20:12.55 | cjb_ie | here in ireland, i get a 'code card' to use with my online banking - essentially it's a one time pad |
| 20:12.58 | daMaestro | telco + banking = scary conglomerate |
| 20:13.10 | ynezz | but secure |
| 20:13.15 | cjb_ie | basically, they're too cheap to use time-based/random keys |
| 20:13.17 | daMaestro | not really. |
| 20:13.43 | ScaredyCat | http://www.zug.com/daily/journal/graphics/011705_cc_aqua.gif |
| 20:13.45 | ynezz | if they can hijack your phone number, they can do whatever else |
| 20:13.52 | ScaredyCat | cjb_ie: |
| 20:14.19 | daMaestro | lol |
| 20:15.04 | ynezz | :) |
| 20:15.13 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: hehehe |
| 20:16.01 | ScaredyCat | he signed Shamu, at new england Aquarium .. it's just genius ;) |
| 20:17.25 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host81-159-254-36.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:17.35 | ynezz | who is Shamu? |
| 20:17.41 | ynezz | just to get the point... |
| 20:17.44 | ScaredyCat | a whale at sea world |
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| 20:24.17 | mokobot | Hallelujah! |
| 20:25.38 | ewanm89_laptop | A list of onetime keys agreed by you and the bank? |
| 20:25.43 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:26.50 | ewanm89_laptop | In fact, the bank can't even see them, you sit down they are generated than encrypted on a singly terminal, all temperary files lost. |
| 20:29.26 | ScaredyCat | right, and then the twat user puts the list in their lwallet |
| 20:29.58 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: Then it's his stupid fault, like writting down your pin. |
| 20:30.15 | ScaredyCat | the use is always the weakest point... |
| 20:30.21 | ScaredyCat | people are dumb |
| 20:30.32 | guaqua | ScaredyCat: you can also have another password |
| 20:30.59 | guaqua | so someone stealing the pad couldn't access the service by only using the pad |
| 20:31.09 | guaqua | they'd also need the special password |
| 20:31.10 | ScaredyCat | which they write on the list paper? :) |
| 20:31.13 | ewanm89_laptop | And how can you get over the CKI problem? |
| 20:31.21 | guaqua | well that's just darwinism |
| 20:31.46 | guaqua | you can't fight natural stupidity, it fights itself |
| 20:32.31 | ScaredyCat | yes, but a cc company *will* refund if the user bitches ... which means we have to pay for those losses. |
| 20:33.26 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: Not here in the UK they don't. |
| 20:33.40 | ScaredyCat | they do ewanm89_laptop... |
| 20:33.55 | ScaredyCat | as online retailers it's our biggest problem |
| 20:34.04 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:34.57 | ewanm89_laptop | Not if it's the users stupid fault, in fact (since chip & pin) every possible fraud is blamed on the user, there fault or not. |
| 20:35.19 | ScaredyCat | chip & pin is *not* safe |
| 20:35.34 | SpeedEvil | Done properly, it could be. |
| 20:35.44 | SpeedEvil | The way it's typically operated - nope. |
| 20:35.55 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: I know that, the banks know that, the courts know that, it still doesn't work. |
| 20:35.57 | ScaredyCat | and no, lots of places do the old 'Cardholder not present' which doesn;t require a pin |
| 20:36.49 | cjb_ie | it protects the banks. that's about it. |
| 20:37.08 | mmazur | Any info on actual shipping? It's nice that they take ppl's money, but what about actually packaging and sending stuff? |
| 20:37.12 | ewanm89_laptop | Yeah, when they blame everything on the user. |
| 20:37.15 | cjb_ie | it gives them plausible deniability "customer must have disclosed the pin" |
| 20:37.29 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@host35-218-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:39.10 | ewanm89_laptop | Also, I know bank managers who say opensource software is not safe, and can't give a reason, other than someone will be able to find the flaws (the can with propietary software). |
| 20:39.23 | ewanm89_laptop | s/(the/(they/ |
| 20:39.32 | cjb_ie | security through obscurity, yay |
| 20:40.11 | ewanm89_laptop | I know one bank in the UK where it's whole online banking is done on IIS. |
| 20:40.22 | SpeedEvil | That's secure. ;) |
| 20:40.37 | ewanm89_laptop | The most exploited webserver in the world. |
| 20:40.39 | SpeedEvil | LyosNorezel: Ok - try altering the input number |
| 20:40.59 | cjb_ie | there's nothing inherently wrong with that, so long as they keep it patched etc, and don't do anything obviously stupid like installing FPE |
| 20:41.24 | ewanm89_laptop | Now the reason I haven't got a student account yet is the fact that this is the bank with a branch on campus. |
| 20:41.43 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: Would you trust it? |
| 20:42.23 | galexande | i would trust the bank. they have a strong business incenhtive to cover up for any technological infelicities |
| 20:42.25 | cjb_ie | *shrug* it's up to them to provide a secure ervice... |
| 20:42.30 | SpeedEvil | cjb_ie: And keep the system airwalled. |
| 20:42.31 | ewanm89_laptop | I don't trust anything where it can take upto a month to release a patch for a major disclosed bug. |
| 20:42.42 | SpeedEvil | Airwall++ |
| 20:42.49 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: airwall? new one on me. |
| 20:43.01 | SpeedEvil | Like a firewall, but with an airgap. |
| 20:43.01 | ckuethe | galexande: i wouldn't trust them to do more then fudge it and bill us for their shortcomings |
| 20:43.08 | *** join/#openmoko IR2 (n=rmoreira@87-196-115-4.net.novis.pt) |
| 20:43.08 | SpeedEvil | And no network connection. |
| 20:43.12 | galexande | ewan, yeah but you aren't trusting the bank to not be compromised, you are trusting the bank to keep track of your money even if they are. |
| 20:43.51 | galexande | i mean, i would boycott a bank because they have a tendency to bill customers for shortcomings (in fact, have already done so), but that's an orthogonal issue to using iis |
| 20:44.21 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: They wouldn't manage that, unfortunatly none of the possible banks use apache. |
| 20:44.28 | ewanm89_laptop | On a UNIX server. |
| 20:44.47 | ewanm89_laptop | jpmorgan don't do student accounts :( |
| 20:44.57 | galexande | jp morgan is awful |
| 20:45.06 | galexande | you can pretty much tell the qualithy of a bankby the number of customers. |
| 20:45.35 | galexande | if it issignificantly more than 100,000, they are probably bad a daily banking business and are evil on the side. even if they use apache :) |
| 20:45.38 | ewanm89_laptop | jpmorgan target a particular customer. |
| 20:46.20 | ewanm89_laptop | night guys. |
| 20:46.38 | cjb_ie | night ew |
| 20:47.03 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: Don't you know where tab is? |
| 20:48.51 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-254-36.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:49.12 | cjb_ie | ewanm89: yes, but sometimes i'm lazy |
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| 20:50.02 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-254-36.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:50.46 | ewanm89_laptop | and mokobot may not be around for some of tommorrow |
| 20:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko duplex_ (n=duplex@p57A850D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:51.04 | ewanm89_laptop | bye |
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| 20:53.15 | daxxar | Hm. A lot of the icons are white documents with a red X inside them, when using MokoMakefile & Xephyr. Did I miss a step in the howto? |
| 20:53.37 | daxxar | Also, the document is a bit .. contradictory. |
| 20:53.45 | daxxar | One part of it lists the command "gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders > /etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders |
| 20:53.59 | daxxar | " as one that should be run inside chroot, but the "automated script" does it outside the chroot. |
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| 21:03.46 | daMaestro | so, has anyone gotten a shipping tracking number yet? |
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| 21:18.59 | Sublime | UPS doesnt pick up shipments on weekends, therefore they cannot ship and they cannot issue tracking numbers |
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| 21:21.06 | daMaestro | Sublime, ok.. so we can assume the shipment is being prepared to go out tomorrow? |
| 21:21.08 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 21:22.33 | Sublime | lol, ive learned that you cannot assume anything with FIC |
| 21:22.47 | Sublime | im assuming, as of now, im never getting my phone |
| 21:23.00 | Sublime | im 1843 and my card hasnt been charged |
| 21:23.28 | cjb_ie | apparently they're charging them in random order. |
| 21:23.49 | cjb_ie | so it seems you can't assume anything |
| 21:23.54 | sagacis | Sublime: I'm in the same boat. I'm trying patience and doing non-phone stuff |
| 21:24.37 | Sublime | yeah, i'd like to be patient and supportive of fic but its getting to be really hard |
| 21:24.50 | Sublime | they need to communicate to us what they are doing |
| 21:24.53 | mmazur | Have faith! ;) |
| 21:24.58 | jaebird | i feel for you guys... |
| 21:25.11 | jaebird | although, as far as i know, none have shipped yet! |
| 21:25.24 | jaebird | so we may all be in the same boat |
| 21:25.25 | mmazur | I'm happy, since they took my money. |
| 21:25.33 | LarstiQ | Sublime: lots of people surrounding you have been charged though |
| 21:25.41 | daxxar | Anyone here running MokoMakefile w/ Xephyr? |
| 21:26.03 | LarstiQ | Sublime: could be all sorts of reasons, I wouldn't worry at this point |
| 21:26.05 | Sublime | one dude from mesa was charged, thats about it as far as i can tell |
| 21:26.14 | LarstiQ | (easy for me to say with 43xxish |
| 21:26.26 | LarstiQ | Sublime: http://richtlijn.be/~larstiq/neo/owners.txt |
| 21:26.26 | Sublime | im not worrying, im just a little ticked off |
| 21:26.30 | daxxar | I'm getting a lot of ** (openmoko-dialer:7819): WARNING **: Cannot load stock icon from theme : moko-call-answer |
| 21:27.16 | LarstiQ | Sublime: so 35, 39, 40, 49 are confirmed in your area |
| 21:27.49 | Sublime | oh i thought you meant in my area as in, southwest US |
| 21:28.14 | LarstiQ | Sublime: ah no, rt ticket area :) |
| 21:28.27 | LarstiQ | hmm, I might extend the script to group based on area |
| 21:28.41 | LarstiQ | but I'm afraid that field is even more freeform |
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| 21:38.32 | Psi_ | LarstiQ, whats the mean, the description is kinda cryptic |
| 21:41.10 | Psi_ | the=that |
| 21:41.16 | Psi_ | owners.txt i mean |
| 21:42.45 | Kero | I'm #1844 and not charged, either... |
| 21:42.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_San_Diego]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[Press_Coverage/fr]] [[Variometer]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware_-_Atmospheric]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Widget_Inheritance_Graph/fr]] [[External_Feeds]] and other changes |
| 21:43.12 | Sublime | whats up 1844, im 1843 |
| 21:43.20 | Psi_ | heh |
| 21:43.54 | Psi_ | anyone know what the fields mean in --> 2019 30 1x ENODATE |
| 21:44.10 | Psi_ | obviously 1st is ticket and 1x is qty |
| 21:44.33 | cjb_ie | look on the bright side, you guys are all getting to bond with your order number neighbours :-) |
| 21:44.35 | Kero | entry on wiki P1_OWners page |
| 21:44.46 | Psi_ | ah |
| 21:45.42 | *** join/#openmoko Aria_ (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 21:45.48 | Psi_ | how about the ENODATE |
| 21:46.24 | Sublime | id rather prefer bonding with my phone than some dude i dont know that live 234234 miles awy |
| 21:46.28 | Sublime | no offense |
| 21:46.49 | Psi_ | heh |
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| 21:47.24 | Psi_ | ah |
| 21:47.35 | Psi_ | i get it |
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| 21:48.37 | Kero | Sublime: none taken :) |
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| 21:56.53 | *** join/#openmoko Odin- (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 21:58.15 | Odin- | Er. Hi. Any activity here? |
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| 22:00.23 | *** join/#openmoko duplex_ (n=duplex@p57A850D2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:00.23 | Odin- | Apparently not. Well, throwing out a question: Anything known about presence or absence of a JVM? |
| 22:00.51 | *** part/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@wsip-70-184-147-28.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 22:01.21 | woglinde | odin neo will have midp support faster than sms sending |
| 22:01.40 | zecke | woglinde: is that a challenge? |
| 22:01.43 | woglinde | I am now just preparing the last .bb for openembedded |
| 22:01.58 | woglinde | zecke a little one, but I was lazy the whole day |
| 22:02.24 | Elrond | midp? |
| 22:02.29 | woglinde | yes |
| 22:02.32 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:02.37 | woglinde | cacao-cldc with midpath |
| 22:03.28 | Odin- | What is MIDP? |
| 22:03.47 | daxxar | MIDP is a java standard |
| 22:03.56 | Stephmw | for mobile devices, mostly |
| 22:04.06 | daxxar | It defines a set of features that a JVM must support to be qualified for "MIDP", and it's aimed at embedded/mobile devices |
| 22:04.12 | daxxar | There's e.g. MIDP 2.0 |
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| 22:04.21 | *** part/#openmoko Sublime (n=Sublime@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:05.07 | Odin- | I see. |
| 22:05.49 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:08.32 | daxxar | Hm. What do I need to do to run the qemu image? It fails with "No init found." (I used MokoMakefile & make qemu) |
| 22:08.40 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A35998.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:09.22 | Kensan | daxxar: did you go through http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#QEMU? |
| 22:10.36 | daxxar | Yes, I installed the packages as it wanted, and it found my gcc-3.4 |
| 22:11.01 | daxxar | It starts the bootloader and starts the kernel image, but seems that the filesystem is missing the init binary (?) |
| 22:11.01 | Kensan | daxxar: did you "make openmoko-devel-image" ? |
| 22:11.41 | daxxar | Doesn't it download a prebuilt image when you run make qemu? |
| 22:11.50 | daxxar | I haven't run openmoko-devel-image after I switched away from x86 |
| 22:13.17 | *** join/#openmoko michaelshiloh (n=chatzill@ip2.fa1-0-2.occ.iinet.com) |
| 22:13.21 | Kensan | daxxar: did you try to do it "by hand"/not using Mokomakefile? (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU) |
| 22:13.54 | daxxar | Nope |
| 22:13.56 | daxxar | I can try that instead |
| 22:17.16 | Kensan | daxxar: do you have lynx and wget installed? |
| 22:17.28 | daxxar | Yep |
| 22:18.06 | daxxar | Doing the "manual" method now |
| 22:18.10 | LarstiQ | Psi_: just a filler for 'no date supplied' |
| 22:18.13 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 22:19.47 | Kensan | daxxar: you can get the images directly from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ if download.sh somehow does not succeed. |
| 22:20.12 | daxxar | It seems to be working fine |
| 22:20.26 | daxxar | Fetching rootfs atm |
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| 22:25.53 | daxxar | Seems to work OK now |
| 22:35.12 | ynezz | it seems, that group orders don't have any CC charge |
| 22:36.37 | ColdFyre | why? |
| 22:36.56 | ynezz | who knows :) |
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| 22:49.25 | alphaone | hey guys |
| 22:49.31 | alphaone | and gals) |
| 22:49.49 | woglinde | he alphaone |
| 22:51.16 | alphaone | hi woglinde |
| 22:52.46 | Elrond | alphaone - Hi! |
| 22:53.57 | Elrond | alphaone - I think, mickey wanted to be contacted by you, or somesuch. |
| 22:54.05 | alphaone | Mailing lists should be closed during conferences. |
| 22:54.24 | alphaone | Elrond: Thanks, I gave him a call already. |
| 22:54.54 | Elrond | alphaone - Ahh. |
| 22:55.28 | Elrond | alphaone - Do you know any openmoko people near FFM except mickey, abraxa_ and me? |
| 22:55.32 | *** part/#openmoko IR2 (n=rmoreira@87-196-115-4.net.novis.pt) |
| 22:55.54 | alphaone | Elrond: No, sorry. |
| 22:56.18 | alphaone | Berlin is not near FFM, is it? :-) |
| 22:56.53 | woglinde | no it isnt |
| 22:57.00 | Elrond | Not strictly. ;-) But there would be an ice ;o) |
| 22:57.23 | Elrond | woglinde - From where are you? |
| 22:57.30 | woglinde | berlin |
| 22:57.35 | Elrond | Ahh |
| 23:04.12 | Elrond | Anyway, good night people. :-) |
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| 23:10.43 | alphaone | good night |
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| 23:25.41 | woglinde | godd nite |
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| 23:30.23 | Stephmw | Odin-: in short, MIDP is typically what comes to mind when you talk about mobile phone games |
| 23:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko grobian1 (n=grobian@L19c7.l.pppool.de) |
| 23:30.51 | Stephmw | granted, it'd be a little weird to be able to play games but not to SMS :) |
| 23:31.12 | Stephmw | oh, and without a d-pad, most games will be really _interesting_ to play |
| 23:36.35 | xL0giC | hi everyone |
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| 23:43.18 | cesarb | perhaps even more than the lack of a working dialer would... |
| 23:43.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[User:Michaelshiloh]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[User:Markb]] [[P1_Owners]] |
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| 23:47.21 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@cpe-72-130-168-187.san.res.rr.com) |
| 23:47.23 | SpeedEvil | Why is a simple SMS -> line of text in a flat file, and echo sms |smssender hard? |
| 23:47.30 | SpeedEvil | Or difficult. |
| 23:47.45 | MacNorth | terminal and on-screen keyboard? |
| 23:47.52 | jaebird | :) |
| 23:47.53 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: the bizarre GSM AT comandset, AFAIK |
| 23:48.10 | SpeedEvil | Oh - and I suppose you've gotta integrate it into gsmd |
| 23:48.14 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: which seems to be what is tripping people |
| 23:48.19 | jaebird | voice communications is so last century...text is the new comm tool :) |
| 23:48.29 | *** join/#openmoko BasiC (n=ish@p4FC4CC76.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:48.33 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: (in particular, it seems to be doing something unexpected IIRC) |
| 23:48.36 | jaebird | or a speech to text processor for SMS :) |
| 23:48.39 | BasiC | openmoko ! ftw ! openmoko awesome ! openmoko ! |
| 23:48.41 | ckuethe | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:48.46 | ckuethe | sms sending tool |
| 23:49.11 | cesarb | jaebird: both have their strong points |
| 23:49.31 | cesarb | jaebird: SMS is more silent and sutble, while voice makes for faster communication and frees your hands |
| 23:50.32 | cesarb | jaebird: and voice can be cheaper than SMS... at R$0,30 each SMS, people who can do a 15-second phone call and talk about everything that's needed (we often do that) spend less |
| 23:50.51 | jaebird | so we need a voice to sms gateway |
| 23:53.02 | jaebird | i've been reading bugzilla! |
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| 23:53.46 | SpeedEvil | Many people can't do short calls at all. |
| 23:54.08 | jaebird | that is why i ignore, and let them go to voicemail |
| 23:54.08 | SpeedEvil | And putting the phone down on them is rude. |
| 23:54.11 | SpeedEvil | Hence SMS |
| 23:55.02 | Stephmw | it's not rude... 'sorry dude, reception cut out and then my battery died' |
| 23:55.23 | jaebird | my policy is that you can call me anytime you want, if i'm busy i won't answer |
| 23:56.05 | jaebird | some people are addicted to answering when the phone rings |
| 23:56.19 | jaebird | and then say "uh...i'm busy right now" :) |
