| 00:00.07 | goki | I think if I was doing much typing I would get a BT keyboard |
| 00:00.20 | SpeedEvil | I have been considering a silly multi-stroke glyph entry system to enter whole words. |
| 00:00.22 | SpeedEvil | With hints |
| 00:00.24 | goki | actually that is one thing I could actually see myself using a neo for, just taking notes in meetings etc. |
| 00:00.36 | Aria | Me too. |
| 00:00.38 | goki | there seem to be lots of wacky text input schemes on the wiki as well :) |
| 00:00.40 | SpeedEvil | Stop half-way through a glyph, and you get a hint of possible competions. |
| 00:00.56 | SpeedEvil | "go up, and an a, down and a q, ..." |
| 00:01.32 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't take that many strokes to get to serious depths. |
| 00:01.43 | goki | yup, as long as you can remember the tree |
| 00:01.51 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 00:02.22 | goki | Actually, if the software extends to a text editor, a (very) good web browser, and nethack, and can make calls kind of reliably, that's all I want |
| 00:02.24 | SpeedEvil | Parts of the tree might even be common phrases - 'I'll meet you at' |
| 00:02.35 | mellon | There was a really good article on UI design a while back that I think is very applicable: http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ |
| 00:02.48 | goki | that hex thing looked kind of interesting, where you stroke through letters on a hex grid |
| 00:02.58 | mellon | Er, applicable to what was being said about ten minutes ago - sorry. Took me a while to find the link. |
| 00:03.06 | SpeedEvil | I'm also wondering about word-glyphs on the keyboard. |
| 00:03.22 | SpeedEvil | If you scribble a line on the keyboard, it computes the word you mean. |
| 00:03.39 | Aria | Not a bad option |
| 00:03.40 | SpeedEvil | Based on distances from letters, and maximal likelyhoods |
| 00:03.42 | Aria | Hexkeyboard style |
| 00:03.49 | SpeedEvil | Not quite. |
| 00:04.00 | Aria | But similar. More shape-based than positional |
| 00:04.15 | SpeedEvil | But similar. Basically using QWERTY knowledge as hints. |
| 00:04.20 | SpeedEvil | Not really. |
| 00:04.44 | SpeedEvil | Basically positional, but hopefully with good error tollerance. |
| 00:05.05 | SpeedEvil | And it'd probably be logical only to enable it for the commonest few hundred words. |
| 00:05.10 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: there is a thing which does arithmetic-coding like for text input... |
| 00:05.16 | SpeedEvil | Dasher. |
| 00:05.20 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: yep |
| 00:05.37 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - despite the hype - it's _not_ optimal. |
| 00:05.47 | SpeedEvil | Unless you happen to have a binary finger |
| 00:05.58 | SpeedEvil | And it requires you to stare at the screen all the time. |
| 00:06.00 | mellon | You mean a binary digit? |
| 00:06.04 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:07.12 | Aria | It's a bit awkward, eh? |
| 00:07.23 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: that's the FUN with the neo: how many other phones you can be _discussion new ideas for input methods_ and actually be able (at least when the thing gets shipped...) to implement and test them? |
| 00:07.26 | SpeedEvil | For _some_ apps - it'd be ideal. |
| 00:07.37 | Aria | Aright. Time to go |
| 00:07.45 | SpeedEvil | If I was on a ventilator, and could only provide one bit of output, forex |
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| 00:08.21 | cesarb | The contact list thing one scrollback page above... how about a hierarchical phonebook? (click on "Friends", "School", and the friend you want... all with name AND PICTURE) |
| 00:08.37 | SpeedEvil | There are groups |
| 00:09.00 | SpeedEvil | I think that's the icon on the right of the bar |
| 00:09.07 | SpeedEvil | midbar |
| 00:11.05 | sagaci3 | Only 2 charge e-mails so far? |
| 00:11.14 | mellon | That we know of. |
| 00:11.37 | mellon | I'm getting a bit paranoid - I was way too optimistic about how soon the phones would ship, and now I'm afraid UPS is going to leave it on my front stoop while I'm out of town next week... :'( |
| 00:11.42 | sagaci3 | That doesn't bode well. I'll have to wait 5 months at this rate |
| 00:11.58 | mellon | Well, with practice comes ease. So maybe the third one will take less time... :') |
| 00:12.37 | mellon | Also, they're using RT to track orders, and RT is painfully slow. So they may have shipped many more parts than have been acknowledged so far. |
| 00:12.44 | mellon | Or not - who knows? :'} |
| 00:13.13 | SpeedEvil | If it was many more, we'd get people saying their CC had been charged |
| 00:14.05 | mellon | Maybe, but sometimes the information about what's been charged takes a while to make it to the credit card web site. Same day service in a nanosecond world? |
| 00:14.10 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: ...as soon as they check their credit card statements... |
| 00:14.31 | mellon | I've checked mine twice today. :') |
| 00:14.41 | goki | that magicink thing is interesting |
| 00:15.01 | mellon | Yeah, I thought so. I think some of what Apple's done with the iPhone reflects similar thinking. |
| 00:15.02 | goki | I think the guy underestimates just how much effort there is in creating a custom widget for every last element of a UI, though |
| 00:15.15 | mellon | Don't be too sure. I think he just figures it's worth doing. |
| 00:15.38 | goki | yes, if you have the time to produce beautiful little graphs and stuff it's great, but I think some of the reason interfaces are bad is that people don't have the time, even if they know it could be done better |
| 00:15.42 | mellon | But I'd like to figure out a way to reduce the cost. It's insane that it takes days to mock up a UI and make it work. |
| 00:15.59 | goki | yup |
| 00:16.07 | SpeedEvil | xul/xbl/js |
| 00:16.09 | mellon | I mean, it doesn't take that long to draw it - why should it take so long to make it work? I've been working on a LISP-based system for specifying UIs. |
| 00:16.17 | goki | well, I hate most UI toolkits, they all work pretty similarly badly |
| 00:16.36 | goki | mellon: well one reason it takes longer is that you need to consider all possible interactions of elements |
| 00:16.36 | SpeedEvil | Or even http and imagemaps |
| 00:16.38 | mellon | Agreed. I tried using Apple's UI builder - it's painful. |
| 00:17.09 | mellon | goki: if only that were the problem. |
| 00:17.11 | goki | mellon: It's the difference between laying out a page and designing a stylesheet, the stylesheet needs to cope with any option at all |
| 00:17.26 | goki | mellon: well, it's _a_ problem, not th eonly one |
| 00:17.49 | mellon | My experience with it is that what's hard is just getting what you can draw in pencil on a sheet of paper in ten minutes to show up on the screen and actually connect to your code. |
| 00:17.54 | Psi | does anyone know how long the GPS takes to start giving coordinates from poweron ? |
| 00:18.04 | mellon | What you're talking about is the step after that, and it's certainly important. |
| 00:18.23 | SpeedEvil | psi: in principle 1s |
| 00:18.23 | goki | mellon: I've done some stuff on connecting data models to UI so as to easily support nice feedback and undo/redo, etc. |
| 00:18.25 | mellon | But the faster you can go from paper to UI, the faster you can iterate through the possibilities. |
| 00:18.41 | mellon | Cool! |
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| 00:18.44 | goki | mellon: but my stuff doesn't really have much effect on what the UI looks like, just what it can do |
| 00:18.47 | SpeedEvil | Psi: look at (IIRC) Hammerhead/Protocol on the wiki. |
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| 00:18.57 | mellon | What it feels like, right? That's important. |
| 00:19.01 | SpeedEvil | Psi: that depends on a number of things. |
| 00:19.06 | Psi | yeah |
| 00:19.13 | mellon | Not running into unexpected dead ends makes a UI a lot more usable. |
| 00:19.29 | goki | mellon: yup. It means that I don't have that bad stuff where you get "old" data that doesn't update, and you can see what you are doing in real time but always be able to undo |
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| 00:19.49 | mellon | Are you working on the OpenMoko UI? |
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| 00:20.00 | goki | mellon: actually that is one thing that REALLY pisses me off about gnome apps in general - you change something and it changes right away, but you can't undo the change |
| 00:20.17 | mellon | gah, don't get me started. |
| 00:20.19 | goki | mellon: no sorry, I was just in here at random to ask about the phone :) I do UI's in Java for desktop stuff ;) |
| 00:20.44 | mellon | Heh. Well, maybe you'll do some hacking later. :') |
| 00:20.56 | goki | I like non-overlapped UI's as well, and I definitely agree with the magicink guy about little graphs and stuff, they are great :) |
| 00:21.15 | goki | mellon: yeah hopefully, I think I will leave it a little while until phase 2 though |
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| 00:21.38 | mellon | Yeah. I like his programming by example too, although I don't think it's actually practical. Still, one can learn from it. |
| 00:22.12 | goki | I only had time to scan through, but I will definitely read it more thoroughly |
| 00:22.35 | mellon | cool |
| 00:22.36 | goki | I'm not sure about this "most software is just for information display" thing though - most software I use isn't, but then I'm probably not typical :) |
| 00:22.45 | mellon | None of us are, are we? |
| 00:22.54 | mellon | That's part of why UI design is hard. |
| 00:22.58 | goki | yup |
| 00:23.20 | goki | unfortunately a lot of attempts to improve it just devolve into HIG fascism :) |
| 00:23.28 | goki | thus neatly ignoring anyone being different |
| 00:23.44 | goki | "You like the OK button on the left, because we TELL you it is the best!" |
| 00:24.09 | goki | "You disagree?! Fine, then read this 100 page book of guidelines!" |
| 00:24.40 | goki | And then they think they can get away with apps that are horrible to use, but have the buttons in the "right" places with the "right" font :) |
| 00:25.22 | goki | anyway, I should probably stop ranting and get some sleep :) I'm probably getting irritable from sleep deprivation :) |
| 00:25.26 | mellon | That's why I'm still doing my development work on Macs. |
| 00:25.26 | SpeedEvil | Night. |
| 00:25.28 | mellon | Sleep well. |
| 00:25.32 | goki | night :) |
| 00:25.35 | kristian-m | is there really an xorg server running? - is Xfbdev a subset or base used for the xorg? |
| 00:26.05 | SpeedEvil | It's X with a display driver for linux framebuffer devices. |
| 00:26.45 | kristian-m | right so just an X11 compatible server |
| 00:27.05 | koen | kristian-m: --enable-kdrive in the xorg-xserver configure script |
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| 00:29.10 | kristian-m | koen ah, I see kind of statically linked xorg then |
| 00:31.00 | SpeedEvil | kristian-m: yeah |
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| 01:24.46 | aloril | (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: Back from Guadec http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/20/back-from-guadec/ |
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| 01:27.41 | happycube | cool |
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| 01:40.06 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Kernel]] [[Talk:Dialer]] [[Clocks]] [[OpenMoko]] [[QT2410]] [[Neo1973_Hardware]] |
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| 01:45.47 | kristian-m | night |
| 01:45.56 | mellon | 'tag |
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| 02:26.15 | BryceLeo | is minimo building for you guys currently? |
| 02:26.15 | aloril | BryceLeo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 02:29.20 | mellon | ooh, harsh! |
| 02:29.35 | mellon | I'm in the process of setting up to do a build now, so I don't know. |
| 02:29.45 | BryceLeo | k |
| 02:29.53 | BryceLeo | thanks |
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| 02:31.26 | BryceLeo | http://www.pastebin.ca/627072 is the errors that i get |
| 02:31.29 | BryceLeo | it happens at the assmebler |
| 02:31.45 | BryceLeo | i used the moko makefile and everything is all up to date |
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| 02:32.25 | mellon | oh, lame. it looks like it's not running that file through the preprocessor for some reason. |
| 02:32.46 | mellon | This will be my first build, so I can't really offer you any concrete advice. |
| 02:32.59 | BryceLeo | ahh ok |
| 02:33.03 | BryceLeo | thanks for the help though |
| 02:33.32 | mellon | always glad to provide my completely worthless advice... :') |
| 02:34.37 | BryceLeo | haha i just wanted to make sure that it was atleast failing for other people |
| 02:37.40 | mellon | Wow, this build pulls in a really amazing amount of stuff. |
| 02:38.30 | Aria | Doesn't it? |
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| 02:41.25 | BryceLeo | heh, i'm just gonna build dillo (apparently that's in the OE repos) |
| 02:41.49 | BryceLeo | not as featureful but good enough for most browsing |
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| 02:57.03 | cesarb | Why was development started with OABI instead of EABI? |
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| 03:40.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Gsmd]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Silent_mode_timeout]] |
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| 03:47.26 | aloril | no charges yesterday |
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| 03:55.48 | mellon | I haven't seen any. |
| 03:56.29 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 03:57.40 | mellon | But I'm about 170 RT numbers later than the person whose card was charged. |
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| 04:21.35 | ferric | so its upto 1880 now? |
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| 04:24.48 | mellon | Dunno, where'd you hear that? :') |
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| 04:25.56 | ferric | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 04:26.03 | ferric | mellon: what's your #? |
| 04:26.14 | mellon | I've got about 100 to go... ;") |
| 04:26.20 | ferric | nice |
| 04:26.42 | mellon | Hm, the 1880 entry was supposedly yesterday. |
| 04:26.59 | ferric | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:27.07 | mellon | That's what it says in the wiki. |
| 04:27.15 | mellon | I have no more information than you! :') |
| 04:27.42 | quinton | i haven't got one yet for #1857 |
| 04:27.59 | quinton | an e-mail i mean |
| 04:28.42 | mellon | They did say that there's no definite connection between RT tickets and the order in which orders will be fulfilled. |
| 04:28.59 | ferric | oh, weird |
| 04:29.13 | quinton | it would make more sense for them to do it by area |
| 04:29.18 | mellon | Really? |
| 04:29.23 | mellon | Sounds like a ton of work! |
| 04:29.32 | ferric | quinton: where are you located? |
| 04:29.36 | quinton | UK |
| 04:30.55 | mellon | Wow, there are a lot of Arizonans on the list. |
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| 04:31.13 | quinton | i dunno, i just got the impression that was how they'd do it |
| 04:31.14 | mellon | I know somebody at UofA is getting one, and there's me, and two other people in the Phoenix area. |
| 04:31.40 | mellon | Well, the first three confirmed on the wiki are in different countries - Canada, US and Sweden. :') |
| 04:31.48 | mellon | So I'd say that your locality theory is out the window! |
| 04:31.55 | mellon | But it was a fun theory! |
| 04:31.56 | quinton | =p |
| 04:33.00 | xzcvczx | i find it quite surprising that only 2 people have got confirmations so far |
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| 04:34.41 | mellon | Oh, god knows what's going on. |
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| 04:34.55 | mellon | Probably they ran into some procedural snag and haven't resolved it yet. |
| 04:35.24 | xzcvczx | probably it was 1000x more popular than they expected |
| 04:35.24 | ferric | yep, as is typical. but they're doing a great job for a 4 ppl team. |
| 04:35.26 | mellon | One could wish for more transparency, but I think we have a clear trend on that, which we'd seen before we ordered, so I guess we just have to suck it up and hope for the best. |
| 04:35.27 | mellon | Yeah. |
| 04:35.39 | mellon | If they really got 2k orders, it's no surprise. |
| 04:35.44 | ferric | mellon: you can't be more transparent |
| 04:35.53 | *** join/#openmoko stig (n=stig@adsl-76-201-142-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:36.05 | ferric | mellon: sean can't say FIC middle management is full of idiots that are making it tough to get the boxes out |
| 04:36.15 | *** join/#openmoko fiveplusone (n=six@cpe-66-65-15-60.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 04:36.21 | mellon | That may not even be the problem. |
| 04:36.34 | mellon | Unless you have more information than I do. :') |
| 04:36.39 | ferric | nope. |
| 04:36.59 | mellon | My money's on UPS, actually. They tend to be a big pain, and they may well have created some kind of major logjam. |
| 04:37.00 | ferric | but from everything I've read so far, these guys really have no support from within FIC |
| 04:37.25 | xzcvczx | ferric: although for those of us who have lost their phones and are not bothering to buy another phone as have ordered a fic it might be nice if an email gets sent out saying sorry due to popular demand there will be a delay on orders |
| 04:37.28 | ferric | mellon: possible |
| 04:37.37 | mellon | ouch. |
| 04:37.50 | ferric | xzcvczx: are you serious? |
| 04:37.54 | mellon | you're really pushing the envelope doing that. |
| 04:37.56 | ferric | xzcvczx: this thing _barely_ works. |
| 04:38.04 | ferric | go buy a cheapie nokia 6010 |
| 04:38.05 | mellon | I mean, it doesn't even work reliably, or so they assure us! :') |
| 04:38.06 | ferric | or something. |
| 04:38.18 | xzcvczx | ferric: all i want/need is text/calling |
| 04:38.36 | ferric | xzcvczx: even that is not perfect. |
| 04:38.38 | cjb_ie | you might need to do a bit of work to get that... |
| 04:38.39 | mellon | That doesn't even necessarily work. And in particular, battery life is terrible. |
| 04:38.47 | ferric | the battery on early releases has sucked, too |
| 04:38.49 | ferric | yeah |
| 04:38.54 | mellon | I mean, I'm totally with you on this - I want to use this as my primary phone too. |
| 04:38.55 | xzcvczx | ferric: and after i have had my last 2 phones nicked |
| 04:39.07 | mellon | make sure to chain this one to your belt. |
| 04:39.16 | mellon | fortunately there's a loop for the chain. :') |
| 04:39.17 | ferric | or, rather, don't get it at all |
| 04:39.26 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck (n=Miranda@dslb-088-064-007-015.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:39.30 | ferric | if you've got 2 phones nicked, just get shitty phones that are worthless |
| 04:39.49 | xzcvczx | mellon: i am programming a phone home thing for it that if someone nicks my phone it texts me the gps location every 5 mins so i can follow the person who nicks it |
| 04:40.25 | mellon | they'll be mighty disappointed if they steal it, unless the thief happens to be a geek. :') |
| 04:40.42 | xzcvczx | mellon: still more fun than having them throw it away |
| 04:40.46 | ferric | xzcvczx: when someone nicks your phone, the first thing they do is pull out and throw away the SIM |
| 04:40.58 | quinton | mellon, why is the battery life bad? |
| 04:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 04:41.00 | mellon | ferric: that won't help them. |
| 04:41.01 | xzcvczx | ferric: and put in a new sim |
| 04:41.09 | ferric | xzcvczx: nope, and sell it |
| 04:41.12 | xzcvczx | ferric: thats what triggers the texting |
| 04:41.15 | mellon | it's bad because the chip is running at full speed all the time right now. |
| 04:41.35 | quinton | mellon, thanks, i didn't realise that |
| 04:41.38 | ferric | not that I know anything about knicking phones. chuckle. |
| 04:42.02 | cjb_ie | xzcvczx: but do you have another GPS to follow it with ;-) |
| 04:42.12 | xzcvczx | ferric: lol.... not so easy to sell stuff straight away here too easy for people to find you.... most of it gets stored for a year or 2 |
| 04:42.25 | mellon | quinton:I've been drooling over this phone for a while now... :') |
| 04:42.29 | xzcvczx | cjb_ie: yup in my tablet... a bluetooth one |
| 04:42.39 | cjb_ie | xzcvczx: what kind of phone is still worth anything after 2 years in storage? |
| 04:43.04 | quinton | mellon, me to, i don't usually get enthused by gadgets |
| 04:43.41 | mellon | I was very tempted by the Trolltech phone - I didn't get it because it was too expensive, and the Neo was announced right around the time the greenphone was released. |
| 04:43.51 | xzcvczx | cjb_ie: for example the 5140i was about $400 1.5 years ago and now its still going for $249-$299 so i mean they steal it for $0 and sell it for $249 they still make a $249 profit |
| 04:43.53 | cjb_ie | xzcvczx: value of tech gadgets drops like lead balloons |
| 04:44.00 | cjb_ie | ah, fair enough |
| 04:44.20 | cjb_ie | but they'll hardly make the current new price, on a used phone...? |
| 04:44.24 | xzcvczx | cjb_ie: anything over free and they make a profit |
| 04:44.39 | ferric | mellon: greenphone still has issues |
| 04:44.43 | xzcvczx | cjb_ie: thats on our ebay clone going for that price |
| 04:44.47 | mellon | well, I didn't buy it, did I? :') |
| 04:45.06 | mellon | Not the least of the issues was the $800 sticker price. *ouch*! |
| 04:45.19 | quinton | the fact that it's open means that it's capable of doing anything it should be capable of. the really cool thing is all the interesting ideas that pop up on this channel |
| 04:45.50 | mellon | yeah. the anti-theft angle is a fun one - I'm interested to see how that plays out. |
| 04:46.49 | mellon | Oh pfui. I can't hard-link on vmware shares. |
| 04:46.55 | mellon | Lame lame lame lame lame! |
| 04:47.19 | mellon | This makes building on MacOS X a lot harder than I'd hoped. :'( |
| 04:47.22 | ferric | mellon: you can't ln ? |
| 04:48.01 | mellon | I'm running Ubuntu under vmware and sharing my Mac OS X home directory using VMware's sharing mechanism - apparently it doesn't grok hard linking. |
| 04:48.25 | ferric | mellon: ah. i'm doing the same, but with parallels |
| 04:48.36 | mellon | does parallels have some kind of file sharing with Linux now? |
| 04:48.38 | ferric | i'm not sure why you can't let everything link within the VM, though |
| 04:48.46 | ferric | s/link/live/ |
| 04:49.03 | xzcvczx | mellon: hence why i have one machine of each... one win, one mac and one linux |
| 04:49.09 | mellon | Well, sure, but then I have to have a much bigger disk in the VM, which is a drag, plus I can't get at my files other than in the VM. |
| 04:49.19 | mellon | I travel too much - it has to all run on my laptop. :'} |
| 04:49.37 | xzcvczx | mellon: ssh :P |
| 04:49.45 | *** join/#openmoko telcontar (n=adam@dsl081-165-219.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:50.10 | mellon | Yeah. I can do it - this just makes it more of a pain than I'd hoped. |
| 04:50.43 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 04:51.14 | ferric | ah |
| 04:52.09 | mellon | Ouch! Where will I put all my iTunes media then? :') |
| 04:52.54 | juri_ | self inflicted, methinks. :) |
| 04:53.23 | mellon | :-P |
| 04:54.11 | ferric | the problem with those 160GB's is they're 4200rpm |
| 04:54.44 | mellon | Mine's 5400. |
| 04:55.03 | cjb_ie | not this one, i think... |
| 04:55.28 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 04:55.48 | cjb_ie | 'twas certainly purchased as a 5400rpm |
| 04:56.16 | cjb_ie | think the 100 i've been using for the past year or so is 4200, a little speedup will be nice. |
| 04:56.28 | ferric | so, i did a make qemu, now how do i start the neo emulator everytime? |
| 04:57.31 | mwester | if nothing else, this project is certainly putting more currency in circulation! |
| 04:57.36 | cjb_ie | i've been wanting a 160 for a while, then they suddenly got cheaper and faster. |
| 04:57.41 | cjb_ie | so i had to buy one. |
| 04:57.47 | cjb_ie | that's my excuse and i'm sticking to it. |
| 04:57.59 | cjb_ie | oh, and i had a job too |
| 04:58.02 | mellon | heh |
| 04:58.04 | cjb_ie | but that's a minor detail. |
| 04:58.14 | mwester | Just make sure it has at least an 8MB cache |
| 04:58.16 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 04:58.54 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 04:58.57 | cjb_ie | meh, the machine it's going in is slow enough anyway... |
| 04:59.29 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 04:59.43 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 05:00.19 | cjb_ie | http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=325711 that's the one. 8M cache, not that it'll affect me much. |
| 05:01.59 | mellon | Nice! |
| 05:02.52 | cjb_ie | the 12ms average seek seems a bit high, but meh. 60 gigs extra space, and a friend is buying the 100gig disk for 50eur |
| 05:03.00 | cjb_ie | so i feel like i'm almost making a profit. |
| 05:04.48 | cjb_ie | this will be... *counts* the 5th disk in the machine since i got it. it started with 20, i upgraded to 40, 80, 100 and now 160. hopefully the bios won't go ape. |
| 05:06.09 | mellon | Wow, way to go! |
| 05:06.26 | mellon | I can never make a laptop last that long. :'( |
| 05:07.00 | cjb_ie | i hadn't planned to put the 100 in it... but the 80 gig was getting unhappy so i retired to light duty in a usb caddy |
| 05:07.20 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 05:07.23 | cjb_ie | some 2.5" drives are only designed to be powered up 8 hours of 24 |
| 05:07.33 | xkr47 | hehe |
| 05:07.38 | xkr47 | samsung is nice |
| 05:07.49 | xkr47 | at least the P80 series has been very good |
| 05:07.52 | cjb_ie | i think this new one is the first i've got with a 36 month warranty |
| 05:08.14 | cjb_ie | mellon: it's a small one, they don't fall as hard ;-) |
| 05:08.22 | xkr47 | a 2x512G raid1 would be nice |
| 05:08.39 | xkr47 | would fit a couple of openembedded installations also!! |
| 05:09.11 | mellon | My unbuilt tree is already almost 250 megabytes. Wow. |
| 05:09.25 | cjb_ie | i suspect this will probably be the only 10" laptop in the country with a 160G drive when i fit it. |
| 05:09.43 | mellon | What kind of laptop is it? |
| 05:09.55 | mellon | Is it one of those IBM butterfly ones? |
| 05:10.05 | cjb_ie | ancient little crusoe-based fujitsu |
| 05:10.09 | mellon | Wow. |
| 05:10.21 | cjb_ie | bought it in... *ponders* 2002? |
| 05:10.48 | telcontar | < still using a p2120 ;) |
| 05:10.48 | mellon | That would be... five laptops ago for me. |
| 05:10.58 | cjb_ie | wanted a nice small one i could throw in my backpack for cycling across town to college and back |
| 05:11.08 | cjb_ie | telcontar: ha! p2110 here :p |
| 05:11.48 | telcontar | I cant find a replacement, still nothing good out there |
| 05:11.56 | cjb_ie | telcontar: that's how i feel. |
| 05:12.03 | mellon | There's the new Palm thing! :') |
| 05:12.07 | cjb_ie | last time i looked on ebay, the p2110 was still fetching around $800 |
| 05:12.17 | cjb_ie | this cost me $1200 new (open box, marked down from $1500) |
| 05:12.47 | cjb_ie | i broke one of the lid latches a few months ago, i was very disappointed. |
| 05:12.57 | telcontar | heh |
| 05:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 05:13.12 | cjb_ie | that's what i get for leaving it open in the car for GPS logging, and throwing my bag down on top of it |
| 05:13.13 | telcontar | have you found a source for parts at all? |
| 05:13.21 | telcontar | i have looked lately |
| 05:13.22 | cjb_ie | telcontar: i've been hoping to find a dead one on ebay |
| 05:13.36 | mellon | Looks like a nice machine. |
| 05:14.06 | mellon | yay, my build seems to be going. |
| 05:14.12 | cjb_ie | the sockets for power and earphone both developed dry joints a couple of years back so i had to open it up to fix those. had to take it almost completely apart to fix the power one. |
| 05:14.18 | telcontar | im actually tempted by the new palm..if it can be flashed with a different flavor of os |
| 05:14.25 | mellon | yeah, that's what I'd do too. :') |
| 05:14.31 | telcontar | 2 pounds beats the fujitsu |
| 05:14.35 | cjb_ie | telcontar: it's probably almost as powerful as our crusoes :-) |
| 05:14.46 | mellon | But so small! |
| 05:14.53 | cjb_ie | what's yours, 933MHz or something? mine is 867 |
| 05:15.11 | telcontar | there is a new laptop coming out |
| 05:15.17 | telcontar | $250 |
| 05:15.22 | cjb_ie | the one thing i'd like on this would be usb2 ports |
| 05:15.30 | telcontar | its called somethign like the eeetop or something? |
| 05:15.35 | telcontar | 933 |
| 05:15.37 | happycube | asus eee |
| 05:15.40 | cjb_ie | telcontar: but only a 7" display in a 10" case, and only 16G of flash |
| 05:15.42 | telcontar | yeah thanks |
| 05:15.52 | telcontar | the asus looks pretty compelling |
| 05:15.58 | telcontar | 4-8 gig flash as the drive |
| 05:16.06 | cjb_ie | in a few months they say they'll release one with a 10" display maybe the same resolution as the p2110/p2120 |
| 05:16.15 | telcontar | im kind of a ssh/screen/vim kind of guy |
| 05:16.23 | telcontar | i would rather have small |
| 05:16.34 | cjb_ie | sure, but i fit 200 chars across on 1280x768 |
| 05:16.50 | telcontar | as long as the weight is down |
| 05:17.07 | telcontar | i went to look at dell "lightweight" and it was in the 4-5 pounds range |
| 05:17.08 | cjb_ie | meh, 1.6kg isn't too bad i think |
| 05:17.35 | cjb_ie | my gf's laptop has literally twice the footprint and more than twice the weight of this. and maybe half the battery life. |
| 05:17.43 | telcontar | heh our openmoko will be all we need right? :) |
| 05:17.55 | mellon | Yeah, could be. |
| 05:18.04 | cjb_ie | i'm holding out for the gta02 |
| 05:18.10 | mellon | If only it had a digital video out. |
| 05:18.24 | mellon | Then I could just plug it into my monitor and go. Although it needs faster I/O. |
| 05:18.24 | cjb_ie | i just don't have time to do development outside of work for the next couple of months |
| 05:19.19 | cjb_ie | right now at work i'm using synergy on the laptop - it's sitting in front of the other machine's monitor, so i have the screens stacked vertically rather than horizontally |
| 05:19.22 | telcontar | a little vnc goes a long way |
| 05:19.54 | cjb_ie | they're both 1280px wide so it works out nicely. |
| 05:19.54 | telcontar | im just hoping the keyboard is usable |
| 05:19.57 | telcontar | im worried that the touchscreen is going to be difficult to work with over time |
| 05:19.59 | cjb_ie | ha, you should see how worn my keyboard is... |
| 05:20.16 | cjb_ie | not only have some of the legends worn off, some of the keys have dimples worn into the top |
| 05:20.25 | mellon | If the moko thing takes off, longevity will start to become a competitive advantage for phones. |
| 05:20.36 | mellon | I don't think you can put too much on the Neo - it's just a seed, not the fruit. |
| 05:20.50 | cjb_ie | ha, i've had my sonyericsson p910i for nearly 3 years now |
| 05:21.02 | mellon | You're my eco-hero, man. :') |
| 05:21.03 | cjb_ie | it looks even more battered than fuj |
| 05:21.16 | cjb_ie | had to replace the screen about a year ago |
| 05:22.15 | cjb_ie | yay for hong kong ebayers |
| 05:22.48 | telcontar | anyone seen the gumstix? |
| 05:22.58 | telcontar | http://www.gumstix.com/ |
| 05:22.58 | mellon | you mean the new one with the gsm modem? |
| 05:23.01 | telcontar | yeah |
| 05:23.08 | cjb_ie | telcontar: not in person, but i wanted one so badly for openstreetmap gps logging |
| 05:23.11 | mellon | that'll be a nice moko platform. |
| 05:23.27 | cjb_ie | (yeah, i'm one of those osm geeks) |
| 05:23.28 | telcontar | it looks a bit expensive for the parts |
| 05:23.34 | mellon | Yeah. |
| 05:23.38 | telcontar | but id pay it if it had a touchscreen |
| 05:23.46 | telcontar | the modularity is really nice |
| 05:23.47 | mellon | I'd really like to get a PicoITX motherboard with a GSM modem and an ARM chip. |
| 05:23.54 | *** join/#openmoko cibomahto (n=metsmatt@ip215.coronado-crossing.phx.ygnition.net) |
| 05:24.00 | *** part/#openmoko JasonN (n=j_lee_ni@164.196.221.203-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 05:24.12 | mellon | Small is good, but sometimes you want a little more than will fit on two square inches of motherboard. |
| 05:24.19 | telcontar | it would allow me to have a ducttape cellphone |
| 05:24.21 | cjb_ie | the only thing holding me back was the lack of a usb host port - seems i could have jury rigged a little board with a usb host controller, but i would have had to start kernel hacking to make it work. |
| 05:24.25 | telcontar | i would be l33tsauce with that |
| 05:24.51 | mellon | I'm just sad that I don't get to bring my phone to IETF. I would be the leetest geek there. :') |
| 05:25.09 | telcontar | yah |
| 05:25.36 | telcontar | im not going to be cool for ubuntulive this weekend :O |
| 05:25.58 | cjb_ie | ayway, now i have a gps that'll log to an SD card itself, so the need for a gumstx has passed. |
| 05:26.01 | mellon | oh, the huge manatee! |
| 05:26.36 | cjb_ie | anyway... i better stop chatting and get some work done. |
| 05:26.43 | mellon | ciao! |
| 05:26.49 | *** join/#openmoko p0rg1 (n=jans@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 05:26.50 | telcontar | keep the faith! |
| 05:27.16 | cjb_ie | telcontar: if you're ever selling your p2120... ;-) |
| 05:27.36 | telcontar | haha |
| 05:27.48 | telcontar | too fond of it |
| 05:28.01 | telcontar | it will go to the computer museum downstairs |
| 05:28.32 | cjb_ie | i know the feeling, this one is far nicer than the toshiba subnote i had before it, which cost me well over twice as much |
| 05:29.21 | cjb_ie | though the tosh is still going strong for a friend of mine who emigrated to china to teach english. |
| 05:29.56 | cjb_ie | another friend described it to me before i bought it as a "weapons grade" subnote, and it does seem to be pretty much indestructible. |
| 05:30.48 | cjb_ie | telcontar: how have you fared with the optical drive in the p2120? |
| 05:30.50 | telcontar | once i switched to a 3pound notebook i never looked back |
| 05:30.57 | telcontar | it works fine |
| 05:31.01 | telcontar | but i never use it |
| 05:31.10 | telcontar | i should have bought the second battery |
| 05:31.11 | cjb_ie | mine stopped reading DVDs a couple of years back, and stopped doing anything with CDs too maybe a year ago |
| 05:31.33 | cjb_ie | i got the extended battery (the front one, not the media bay one) about a year ago |
| 05:31.42 | cjb_ie | 6 hours battery life - mmmm. |
| 05:31.43 | telcontar | yeah that was a good buy |
| 05:32.08 | *** part/#openmoko mwester (n=nmwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 05:32.09 | cjb_ie | the original battery was down to about 1.5 hours' life, which wasn't really useful for college |
| 05:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-69-248.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 05:32.39 | cjb_ie | just about get through one lecture and then need to find somewhere to charge |
| 05:32.46 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 05:32.48 | telcontar | we'll see if the asus eee can replace it |
| 05:33.29 | cjb_ie | yeah, i'm keeping a close eye on it. 7" just isn't enough for me though, i'll bide my time and wait for 10" |
| 05:34.13 | ckuethe | oh, that's begging to be taken out of context... |
| 05:34.51 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=sublime@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:35.02 | cjb_ie | ckuethe: :p |
| 05:35.03 | mellon | fortunately, though, we are mature adults who can handle a bit of contextual ambiguity. |
| 05:35.05 | mellon | :') |
| 05:35.09 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-44-236.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 05:35.20 | cjb_ie | hey, there was nothing ambiguous about the context! |
| 05:35.29 | ckuethe | of course. no doubt you were talking about in car video or something |
| 05:35.39 | ckuethe | small screens being insufficient... |
| 05:35.46 | cjb_ie | ckuethe: the asus eee mentioned on the previous line to my blooper. |
| 05:35.57 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 05:36.02 | *** part/#openmoko Psiodon (i=Psiodon@218.107.198.66) |
| 05:36.33 | cjb_ie | telcontar: what do you run on the '20? ubuntu runs very well on the '10 |
| 05:37.10 | cjb_ie | hmph. uptime 13 days, i don't remember rebooting that recently. |
| 05:39.04 | cjb_ie | i think the first os i installed on it was redhat 9, which was okay. fedora was just crashtacular. then i went to libranet, which was nice (and the first to autodetect the screen resolution correctly), stayed with that for two releases, and ubuntu ever since. |
| 05:39.51 | cjb_ie | anyway, i was going back to work .... *ahem* :-) |
| 05:40.06 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Bluetooth_powered_Multi-SIM_support]] [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Salt_Lake]] [[User:Bmidgley]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Arizona]] [[Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch]] |
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| 05:43.13 | telcontar | hehe sorry yeah im running feisty on the 2120 |
| 05:43.17 | telcontar | back to work you! |
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| 06:13.10 | mellon | zowie! |
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| 07:04.26 | mellon | Rats, build failed. |
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| 07:08.19 | CM | mellon: On what? |
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| 07:08.42 | mellon | | /home/openmoko/tmp/cross/bin/arm-linux-as: unrecognized option `-Qy' |
| 07:09.05 | mellon | It's getting late - probably I should wait until morning to look at it. :'} |
| 07:09.08 | CM | mellon: Ah, that's some bash issue. It's mentioned on the Talk page for MokoMakefile |
| 07:09.12 | mellon | Oh, thanks. |
| 07:09.35 | CM | mellon: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile#do_compile_fails_with_unreconized_option_.27-Qy.27 |
| 07:10.34 | CM | Basically says there's sometihng in his .bashrc screwing up the build. Would be nice to figure out exactly what it is and update the wiki |
| 07:10.51 | mellon | Yes, it would. |
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| 07:13.06 | nilweed | mellon: I had this same problem yesterday. It has to do with your PATH env variable. Try doing "PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin make openmoko-devel-image" and see if that works for you. |
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| 07:14.18 | mellon | yeah, I have a pretty hairy path - I'm trying that now. |
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| 07:16.29 | mellon | CM, nilweed: thanks. I'm going to let it run while I sleep; hopefully this solves the problem. |
| 07:16.52 | nilweed | good luck. I just got qemu running. it's very exciting! |
| 07:16.57 | buz | the gui complaining about usb1.1 has got a point considering we will soon have 8gb microsd |
| 07:17.02 | mellon | cool! |
| 07:17.57 | cjb_ie | 8 gigs via usb1... that's what, at best 2.5 hours to read or write a full medium |
| 07:18.10 | CM | How fast is the wifi chip? |
| 07:18.42 | mellon | buz: I seem to manage to fill up my hard drive pretty fast over my internet connection, which is probably slower than USB... :') |
| 07:18.42 | CM | Because I doubt anyone will have a 8gb chip in a P1 |
| 07:18.58 | cjb_ie | CM: mostly because it has a usb1.1 port :p |
| 07:19.01 | mellon | If it fits, I'm putting one in. |
| 07:19.10 | buz | CM: does P2 have usb2 for that port? |
| 07:19.11 | sandos | mellon: USB 1.1 is probably faster than 802.11b, but not 11g |
| 07:19.22 | CM | buz: Don't think so |
| 07:19.32 | mellon | yeah, slightly faster. 12mbps vs. 10mbps |
| 07:19.50 | *** join/#openmoko Hoolxi (n=Hoolxi@203.110.163.133) |
| 07:20.06 | mellon | It looks like the PATH fix worked. |
| 07:20.08 | cjb_ie | and they're both half duplex buses so comparing like with like |
| 07:20.40 | mellon | If you're using the machine as a portable library, I think it'll be okay. If you want to move tons of data on or off all at once, probably not okay. |
| 07:20.41 | CM | I think it's a pain to fill my 1gb mem card in the phone over usb1 |
| 07:20.51 | mellon | E.g., you don't want to use it as an iPod shuffle. |
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| 07:21.50 | buz | yeah filling it with 1gb data will take nearly half an hour after you factor in overhead etc |
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| 07:23.37 | mellon | I'm a little tempted to use the thing as a mobile hack platform. That's completely stupid, of course, but then 8G would be a nice number. |
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| 07:25.29 | ScaredyCat | oo looks like they managed to charge 2 more people yesterday |
| 07:25.40 | mellon | w00t! |
| 07:25.53 | ScaredyCat | sadly, not in ordernumber sequence |
| 07:25.54 | mellon | Only 50 days to go for me, then! |
| 07:25.59 | mellon | Oops. |
| 07:26.00 | mellon | oh well |
| 07:26.02 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 07:26.12 | ScaredyCat | so you might be next :) |
| 07:26.36 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-214-251.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:26.37 | mellon | w00t! |
| 07:26.41 | mellon | :') |
| 07:27.12 | mellon | Oo, someone from AZ> |
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| 07:27.57 | mellon | So apparently I'm a complete loon for preferring the creamsicle version to the black/silver version. |
| 07:28.05 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: did you see that on the wiki? |
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| 07:28.13 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 07:28.20 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: could you give me a URL to view (pretty plz) |
| 07:28.31 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 07:28.50 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: p1 owners is <reply> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 07:28.51 | mokobot | okay, ScaredyCat |
| 07:28.58 | ScaredyCat | ~p1 owners |
| 07:28.58 | mokobot | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 07:29.01 | ScaredyCat | :) |
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| 07:29.16 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: thanks |
| 07:30.18 | CM | I haven't recieved any tracking number yet though :-/ |
| 07:30.28 | ynezz | CC charged? |
| 07:30.44 | CM | Yes, 2 days ago |
| 07:30.56 | CM | Or not charged really, but "reserved" |
| 07:31.44 | sannes | #1880 has a received payment, but that is later than mine .. mine is #1848 .. I don't get this |
| 07:32.04 | Kensan | buz: It's certainly one of the "bigger" drawbacks but a SD-Adapter is included so you can plug it into any sd-reader. |
| 07:32.06 | mellon | They're toying with us, making sure we really want it. |
| 07:32.18 | sandos | ;) |
| 07:32.19 | Kensan | s/one/is one/ |
| 07:33.18 | Kensan | sannes: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ#My_order_number_is_XXXX_will_I_get_a_phone_from_the_first_batch.3F |
| 07:33.18 | CM | mokobot: Ah, you're quiet again :D |
| 07:33.40 | mellon | Blech, my credit card company is two days behind on reporting charges, so I won't be able to track it that way. |
| 07:34.12 | ScaredyCat | it's random sannes.... they hav a giant wheel with all the numbers on it.. ;) |
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| 07:35.17 | cel | hi |
| 07:35.24 | mellon | howdy |
| 07:35.54 | ScaredyCat | "(Received/replied to YES_I_DO (by phone))" |
| 07:36.02 | ScaredyCat | whoaaa htere, you have a phone number! |
| 07:36.09 | ynezz | I have #1952, so I hope I'm in first batch also... |
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| 07:40.19 | dcordes | hey there |
| 07:40.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Frankfurt_Main]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[CDC_ACM]] [[Basic_End-user/ru]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Arizona]] |
| 07:40.30 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 07:40.56 | dcordes | i know i already asked this but is there a chance that moko will ever be synced with OE? |
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| 07:42.06 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:42.12 | dcordes | hi there |
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| 07:42.38 | Kensan | dcordes: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/distro-devel/2007-June/000042.html |
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| 07:46.11 | Linux_Galore | dcordes: cant see why not, there are open source libs to do that |
| 07:47.41 | dcordes | Linux_Galore: to do what? |
| 07:47.57 | Linux_Galore | dcordes: import export OE information |
| 07:48.11 | ScaredyCat | Linux_Galore: I think he means openembedded, not open exchange |
| 07:48.23 | dcordes | yea |
| 07:51.35 | dcordes | Kensan: that sounds good |
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| 07:54.36 | *** join/#openmoko squalyl (n=squalyl@139.100.140.128) |
| 07:54.40 | squalyl | hi guys |
| 07:56.02 | dcordes | morning |
| 07:57.57 | squalyl | Where are the sysops for this server? I registered my nick a looong time ago and I want to recover it! |
| 07:58.25 | dcordes | squalyl: is your registration just dropped? |
| 07:58.38 | dcordes | if so /msg nickserv register email passwprd |
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| 08:00.40 | ewanm89_laptop | No need for email on freenode. |
| 08:00.58 | squalyl | it doesn't work, my previous account seems to work, all what I need is to reset my password (i feel lame....) |
| 08:01.10 | squalyl | (seems to exist) |
| 08:01.40 | *** join/#openmoko wehttamb (n=wehttamb@CPE-58-168-5-245.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 08:02.39 | dcordes | squalyl: theres a way to reset ot if was not used for >1month |
| 08:03.09 | squalyl | it was not used for 44 weeks! |
| 08:03.31 | squalyl | so if there is a mean, I would be happy to learn... |
| 08:04.22 | dcordes | http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#unusednick |
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| 08:05.44 | squalyl | so we get back to my first request... how can I contact the staff? :D |
| 08:06.13 | dcordes | that shoudl all be in the faq |
| 08:06.56 | ewanm89_laptop | squalyl: #freenode |
| 08:08.34 | squalyl | ewanm89_laptop: thx |
| 08:08.57 | *** part/#openmoko dirakx (n=pilar@190.156.35.128) |
| 08:11.15 | *** join/#openmoko waecky (n=waecky@p549CD437.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:17.05 | *** part/#openmoko chrisphoneman (i=chris@75-134-181-201.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 08:21.58 | *** join/#openmoko keithp` (n=keithp@home.keithp.com) |
| 08:22.22 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.253.69.99) |
| 08:28.51 | *** join/#openmoko mrossow (n=mrossow@134.123.9.213.dsl.getacom.de) |
| 08:29.52 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
| 08:38.00 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis1 (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 08:38.09 | squalyl | OK someone helped me. I'm now controlling my nick ^^ |
| 08:38.27 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-152-202-227.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:41.53 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot_ (n=ewanm89@host86-152-202-227.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:48.27 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_two (n=nmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 08:48.43 | cel | ja? |
| 08:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis1 (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 08:53.01 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@host81-150-196-5.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 08:54.50 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 09:01.32 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but how do we know its really you squalyl |
| 09:05.05 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A3702D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0DD5E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:05.28 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 09:06.40 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_two (n=nnmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 09:13.04 | Stephmw | howdy |
| 09:21.02 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-210-129.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:23.27 | *** join/#openmoko lrg_ (n=liam@host81-150-196-5.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 09:24.32 | ScaredyCat | tum te tum |
| 09:28.10 | Kero | forecast says a third CC should have been charged by now. is it? :) |
| 09:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 09:31.47 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 09:36.52 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 09:37.09 | *** join/#openmoko Psiodon (i=Psiodon@218.107.197.10) |
| 09:37.16 | *** part/#openmoko Psiodon (i=Psiodon@218.107.197.10) |
| 09:38.23 | ScaredyCat | Kero: 2 more |
| 09:38.38 | ScaredyCat | but their rt ticket numbers aren't in sequence |
| 09:39.38 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: I said it before, they are doing slow-start ;-) |
| 09:39.48 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: tomorrow will be 4 more ;-) |
| 09:40.22 | ScaredyCat | let's hope |
| 09:40.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] |
| 09:40.42 | jeddy3 | by this rate i should have my neo right about in time for x-mas 2008 :) |
| 09:40.47 | ewon | zomg! I just realised |
| 09:40.54 | ewon | there is no geek-holster for the moko! |
| 09:41.04 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylor (n=robtaylo@208-78-103-131.slicehost.net) |
| 09:41.16 | jeddy3 | ewon, haha :) |
| 09:41.28 | cjb_ie | i bet one of the palm or treo ones will fit |
| 09:41.29 | jeddy3 | ewon, i have also thought about holsters |
| 09:42.41 | ScaredyCat | pft, holster... |
| 09:43.03 | ScaredyCat | I'm carrying my advanced case everywhere ;) |
| 09:43.49 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 09:44.14 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-151-185-143.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:44.18 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54890E8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:44.58 | jeddy3 | xD |
| 09:45.04 | cel | ScaredyCat: you can use the lanyard with the case ;) |
| 09:45.25 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 09:46.07 | cel | who is planning to come to the camp? |
| 09:48.42 | TobiX | cel: If I'm (un)lucky I have to work then... |
| 09:49.22 | ScaredyCat | why do people sign messages then not provide a public key ? |
| 09:49.44 | TobiX | ewon: Many backpacks have nice holsters on their front strip, but they may be too small... |
| 09:49.53 | cel | TobiX: where are you from? |
| 09:50.07 | TobiX | ScaredyCat: Then can at least verify it themselves.... |
| 09:50.16 | TobiX | cel: Aachen, Germany |
| 09:50.23 | ewon | TobiX: no, no you need a geek holster, that attaches to your belt, that holds a smartphone... |
| 09:50.40 | TobiX | ewon: Ah, thoth things... |
| 09:50.48 | ScaredyCat | TobiX: are they that forgetful ;) |
| 09:51.05 | TobiX | ewon: I have a nice pouch for my NDS... |
| 09:51.09 | ewon | let's face it, a moko isn't going to fit in your pocket unless you're wearing combats ors... |
| 09:51.32 | ScaredyCat | or you're a larger person... |
| 09:51.42 | ScaredyCat | with pockets a VW could fit in |
| 09:52.29 | ewon | heh :) |
| 09:52.38 | ScaredyCat | oh look, firefox is killing my machine again :/ |
| 09:52.55 | ewon | it's fucking july, it's dark outside, and it's raining |
| 09:53.02 | TobiX | ewon: Official Nintendo gear, even ;) |
| 09:53.11 | ewon | even in ireland july is supposed to be == sunshine |
| 09:53.49 | cel | in austria we going into the hottest day (forecast 38 C) |
| 09:54.18 | ewon | it's been 38 days since we had a day with no rain |
| 09:54.29 | ewon | it's insane |
| 09:55.40 | cel | yup |
| 09:55.54 | TobiX | Arrg. Now who said a glass table was geeky? |
| 09:55.54 | ScaredyCat | iirc greece was suffering really badly from the heat |
| 09:55.58 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@mieuh.bluebugs.org) |
| 09:56.07 | TobiX | But now I dismounted my old computer table... |
| 09:56.28 | TobiX | s/dismounted/disassembled/ I think... |
| 09:56.44 | ScaredyCat | Stephanie no disassemble |
| 09:57.26 | ynezz | no5 alive! |
| 09:57.37 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 10:01.08 | ScaredyCat | mokobot |
| 10:02.51 | squalyl | for the ones who complains about the weather, I share your anger... In paris the sky is not very cool too |
| 10:03.11 | squalyl | WTF! |
| 10:03.28 | squalyl | I cant leave :) |
| 10:05.11 | ScaredyCat | ... on a dark dessert highway... |
| 10:06.00 | cjb_ie | cool wind in my hair? |
| 10:06.09 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 10:10.11 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 10:14.25 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M9f8f.m.pppool.de) |
| 10:17.33 | SpeedEvil | Which term do you recognise more? "Hold Music" or "Ringback Tone" |
| 10:17.58 | cjb_ie | wtf is a ringback tone? |
| 10:18.00 | SpeedEvil | !googlefight "hold music" "ringback tone" |
| 10:18.09 | SpeedEvil | indeed. |
| 10:19.15 | ScaredyCat | they are different things |
| 10:19.44 | ScaredyCat | ringback tone is the tone you hear when you call someone... |
| 10:19.54 | ScaredyCat | prrrp prrrp |
| 10:19.58 | SpeedEvil | Ah - yes, I see, the person is confused. |
| 10:20.06 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 10:20.21 | SpeedEvil | In the states, there isn't _that_ important a difference - if you're contemplating implementing it on the phone itself. |
| 10:20.45 | SpeedEvil | In the UK - forex, this will get people annoyed at you as they are paying. |
| 10:22.51 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 10:22.53 | TobiX | ewon: Geek NDS pouch: http://heapsort.de/gallery/tobiastech/aah and following - but only usable for the NDS, since the plastic is cut exactly for the lower half of the NDSlite... |
| 10:23.28 | ewon | hmmm |
| 10:23.33 | TobiX | SpeedEvil: You cab set "ringup tones" at some mobile providers in Germany... No cost for the caller |
| 10:24.03 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 10:25.30 | TobiX | ewon: The hook is really cool, I can hook the pouch on my belt to listen to music (my headphone cables are long, so I can even close the pouch) or when I'm not using the device at all and can unhook the whole thing if I wannt to use it |
| 10:26.28 | TobiX | Arrg, someone set us up the rain! |
| 10:26.36 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@blfd-4db578eb.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 10:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-151-190-63.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:27.53 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 10:28.32 | Psi_ | are we still at ticket 1 for confirmation emails ? |
| 10:28.47 | Psi_ | well, ticket 1820 or whatever it was |
| 10:30.22 | TobiX | "You have no chance to stay dry make your time." - And I wanted to go shopping... |
| 10:32.15 | SpeedEvil | TobiX: yeah - someones written on the wiki based on the 'free to call mobiles' market there. |
| 10:32.20 | SpeedEvil | (well - sort-of) |
| 10:32.38 | SpeedEvil | And personally, it's an annoying idea. |
| 10:32.57 | SpeedEvil | Confuses the network->user breakover point |
| 10:33.34 | *** join/#openmoko voodoocoder (n=tom@lserver.sce.co.za) |
| 10:33.55 | ScaredyCat | you'd need the network provider to do it... |
| 10:33.59 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host81-151-184-7.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:34.20 | ScaredyCat | the same with gsm<->voip handover |
| 10:34.40 | cel | handover during a call? |
| 10:34.51 | ScaredyCat | yah |
| 10:34.54 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: You'd _want_ the network provider to do it. |
| 10:34.59 | SpeedEvil | - ringback tone |
| 10:35.08 | SpeedEvil | you can sort-of-fake-it on the phone |
| 10:35.09 | ScaredyCat | you can't do it without |
| 10:36.24 | ScaredyCat | and they need to have changed the signaling.. |
| 10:36.38 | ScaredyCat | ie pass audio before answer.. |
| 10:36.45 | ScaredyCat | generally it's state codes |
| 10:38.09 | ScaredyCat | altough I am basing this on my pri experience, not particularly gsm... but I'd expect the same sort of thing, particularly as that sort of thing wont work for gsm to traditional telephony |
| 10:38.47 | ScaredyCat | but you can do early pass audio.. |
| 10:44.18 | Zenton | hi all |
| 10:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89__ (n=ewanm89@host86-152-204-230.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:45.04 | Zenton | is there any plan to release openmoko in a device supporting umts or hsdpa? |
| 10:46.10 | ScaredyCat | lol SpeedEvil ... I just read the original... |
| 10:46.58 | kristian-m | Zenton versions after GTA02 (oct release) are not announced yet... |
| 10:47.04 | kristian-m | morning everybody |
| 10:47.26 | ScaredyCat | ewanm89_laptop: mokobot dead? |
| 10:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 10:49.52 | squalyl | I miss him :( |
| 10:49.52 | ScaredyCat | is nickserv stuffed too ? |
| 10:49.52 | *** part/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 10:49.52 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 10:49.52 | squalyl | !! why is libgsmd not compiling anymore?? |
| 10:49.52 | ScaredyCat | brb |
| 10:49.53 | *** part/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 10:49.54 | *** join/#openmoko FuzzyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 10:50.18 | Zenton | thanks kristian-m |
| 10:50.55 | squalyl | wtf!! http://www.pastebin.ca/627505 |
| 10:51.23 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-116-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=GZBA4143@AMontsouris-153-1-64-2.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:52.07 | guillaum1 | hi all |
| 10:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-254-153.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:52.34 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 10:52.48 | squalyl | hi guillaum1 |
| 10:53.48 | FuzzyCat | Q: How can you delay milk turning sour? |
| 10:53.50 | FuzzyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:54.13 | squalyl | :) |
| 10:55.13 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn_ (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 10:56.52 | guillaum1 | I'm trying to apply instructions from the "Setting_up_USB_connection" tutorial. Does someone have a problem with gadgetfs on debian etch (stable and testing) ? |
| 10:56.52 | guillaum1 | $ mount -t gadgetfs gadget /dev/gadget |
| 10:56.52 | guillaum1 | $ mount: unknown filesystem type 'gadgetfs' |
| 10:57.29 | ewon | do you have gadgetfs module loaded? |
| 10:57.35 | guillaum1 | ewon, yes |
| 10:58.35 | guillaum1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:58.35 | guillaum1 | gadgetfs 18352 0 |
| 10:58.35 | guillaum1 | net2280 20240 1 gadgetfs |
| 10:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 10:59.45 | squalyl | WTF! libgsmd installs well when I only bitbake it, but openmoko-devel-images refuses to build! |
| 11:00.29 | squalyl | (with openmoko svn rev 2382) should I report that to bugzilla? |
| 11:06.56 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=dottedma@frontier.dottedmag.net) |
| 11:07.16 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host81-151-190-33.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:11.07 | Dmitry_Platonov | guillaum1, check /proc/filesystems |
| 11:12.11 | SpeedEvil | To the local groups |
| 11:12.33 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:12.33 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@85.138.202.113) |
| 11:14.17 | guillaum1 | Dmitry_Platonov, seems ok |
| 11:14.17 | guillaum1 | $ cat /proc/filesystems | grep gadgetfs |
| 11:14.17 | guillaum1 | $ nodev gadgetfs |
| 11:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 11:16.43 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 11:17.14 | Dmitry_Platonov | anything in dmesg? |
| 11:17.17 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=deluxe@Ve1b8.v.pppool.de) |
| 11:17.40 | quickdev | Hello |
| 11:18.56 | guillaum1 | Dmitry_Platonov, nothing special: gadgetfs: USB Gadget filesystem, version 24 Aug 2004 |
| 11:19.56 | guillaum1 | weird |
| 11:20.00 | kristian-m | has anyone managed to mount the jffs2 image localy yet? (I get "bad superblock on /dev/loop0") |
| 11:24.19 | *** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:24.51 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:26.29 | kiney | counter |
| 11:26.30 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-19 00:49) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 12:16:45 (0.512±0.5 days) (1762;249) |
| 11:27.07 | kiney | someone already got his P1? |
| 11:28.53 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@M9ca1.m.pppool.de) |
| 11:29.16 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 11:29.29 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-7518b04a17b500c4) |
| 11:31.07 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 11:31.33 | SpeedEvil | kiney: not yet |
| 11:31.42 | SpeedEvil | of people who have purchased them. |
| 11:32.40 | *** join/#openmoko minime (n=minime@v26038.topnetworks.de) |
| 11:38.34 | *** join/#openmoko drear|laptop (n=drear@gw0.stadinetti.fi) |
| 11:40.02 | *** join/#openmoko openfanss (n=df@218.79.149.94) |
| 11:40.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:B.richter]] [[User:B.richter]] [[Sshfs]] [[Wishlist:Human_screening]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Fife]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Scotland]] [[Category:Calling_Features]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Answering_Machine]] and other changes |
| 11:41.44 | squalyl | T_T understanding bitbake is a real pain |
| 11:42.43 | squalyl | now it fetches my SVN but it cant find my makefile, because it does not execute "make" in the right folder |
| 11:43.17 | ynezz | well you've sources... |
| 11:43.39 | kiney | speedevil: ok |
| 11:44.35 | squalyl | I guess searching in bb sources will take more time than understanding how "working" recipes work... |
| 11:45.25 | CM | Nice hardware: http://www.negrielectronics.com/product_info.php?currency=USD&products_id=228 |
| 11:46.58 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-177-041.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:47.10 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:48.26 | FuzzyCat | did you see this squalyl? : |
| 11:48.27 | FuzzyCat | http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual&dpage=recipes_examples |
| 11:48.52 | FuzzyCat | CM: not a nice price |
| 11:49.22 | ewon | indeed |
| 11:49.27 | ewon | I could have 2 mokos for that price |
| 11:49.55 | FuzzyCat | I'll have a latte and a double moko to go |
| 11:50.29 | Dmitry_Platonov | CM, no GPS too. |
| 11:51.07 | *** part/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 11:51.33 | cel | im currently using one of these |
| 11:51.37 | cel | http://www.imcosys.com/ |
| 11:52.06 | cel | it runs linux but its closed source ..... |
| 11:52.24 | squalyl | FuzzyCat: it's way too simple, this example does not use a makefile! |
| 11:52.32 | cel | not very usefull |
| 11:53.01 | squalyl | is Rewriting "do_compile" and "do_install" absolutely necessary? |
| 11:53.09 | squalyl | I'm inheriting "autotools" |
| 11:53.19 | squalyl | it should do the job... |
| 11:54.37 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@adsl-89-217-45-155.adslplus.ch) |
| 11:55.18 | ewon | heh, autotools |
| 11:55.21 | squalyl | 1 - My package is in a separate tree, not directly in oe or openmoko packages/ subdirs |
| 11:55.22 | FuzzyCat | there's an example of that on the mokomakefile page |
| 11:55.25 | ewon | autotools is worse than paedophiles. |
| 11:55.29 | squalyl | lol |
| 11:56.13 | squalyl | most working packages are built with that, so why mine won't? |
| 11:56.23 | ewon | it's a pain the arse to get working |
| 11:56.45 | ewon | makefile.am haunts my dreams |
| 11:57.03 | squalyl | indeed my test is more simpler than that. |
| 11:57.09 | squalyl | 2 .c files and a makefile |
| 11:57.30 | squalyl | BUT it's not in the openmoko or openembedded tree |
| 11:57.44 | squalyl | so I added my path to $BBPATH |
| 11:58.11 | squalyl | this way, bitbake does not even see my package, I have to use bitbake -b <complete path> |
| 11:58.26 | squalyl | it's too much problems in the same time T_T |
| 12:00.19 | squalyl | BBPATH = /home/squalyl/OM/build:/home/squalyl/OM/openmoko/trunk/oe:/home/squalyl/OM/openembedded:/home/squalyl/mypackages/oe |
| 12:00.42 | squalyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko moo^ (n=sexycows@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 12:01.22 | squalyl | I cd into the normal dir (given in the wiki) : cd /home/squalyl/OM/build && bitbake mypackagename |
| 12:01.47 | squalyl | results in ERROR: No providers of build target mypackagename (for []) |
| 12:11.03 | sandos | squalyl: you live in Paris? |
| 12:11.32 | squalyl | yes |
| 12:11.49 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot_ (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@81.187.73.203) |
| 12:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:13.07 | *** join/#openmoko Longfield (n=valentin@adsl-89-217-45-155.adslplus.ch) |
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| 12:15.38 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 12:17.54 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
| 12:19.37 | *** join/#openmoko BryceLeo (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 12:25.58 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 12:26.55 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 12:26.56 | sandos | squalyl: I hope the weather gets better when I get there. Going on a trip there Aug 12 |
| 12:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 12:31.06 | squalyl | sandos :) There's no rain, but it's not as sunny as we can expect in July... For a trip, it's not bad, you'll avoid toasting! |
| 12:32.18 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:34.46 | sandos | squalyl: ah. Same thing here in Sweden, more cloud and rain than a regular summer, but no disaster I guess :) |
| 12:34.56 | ScaredyCat | rain here :( |
| 12:35.33 | edistar_ | rain here too... |
| 12:36.12 | *** part/#openmoko p0rg1 (n=jans@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 12:36.36 | squalyl | where are you from, guys? |
| 12:36.49 | squalyl | Ireland, Sweden, France... and others? |
| 12:37.01 | quickdev | In germany it's sunny :) |
| 12:37.10 | guillaum1 | Dmitry_Platonov, DUMMY_HCD module is not compiled in default 2.6.21 debian kernel. It might the cause of the problem with gadgetfs. I'm gonna compile a custom kernel... |
| 12:38.00 | cel | Vienna, Austria verry hot 38c |
| 12:38.10 | edistar_ | netherlands, rain |
| 12:38.22 | edistar_ | quickdev: where in germany? |
| 12:38.58 | guillaum1 | hey Stephmw |
| 12:39.24 | ewon | however, I'm moving to Santa Monica, CA next month |
| 12:39.40 | squalyl | I will visit London with my girlfriend on Aug 20-23, hope it will not rain :) |
| 12:40.00 | Stephmw | hey guillaume :) |
| 12:40.14 | Stephmw | squalyl: it's not looking too good for you atm |
| 12:40.41 | Stephmw | squalyl: torrential downpours today, flood warrnings and over 30cm rainfall where I work... lots of flooded roads |
| 12:40.52 | ewon | raining all freakin day here |
| 12:41.07 | quickdev | edistar_: north-west germany ;) |
| 12:41.16 | edistar_ | quickdev: city? |
| 12:41.22 | edistar_ | quickdev: ;) |
| 12:41.22 | quickdev | bielefeld |
| 12:41.30 | edistar_ | quickdev: ah,well, lucky you ;) |
| 12:41.34 | ScaredyCat | and 2 drowned cats :( |
| 12:41.39 | quickdev | edistar_: where are you from? |
| 12:41.45 | edistar_ | quickdev: I'm near duisburg and it's raining suddenly |
| 12:41.48 | squalyl | Stephmw > We have a full month before we come :) |
| 12:41.57 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:42.25 | edistar_ | quickdev: even lightening ;) but I hope it will go away again soon |
| 12:42.46 | Stephmw | squalyl: here's hoping for you - this whole summer has been rainy and cold |
| 12:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot_ (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:44.49 | squalyl | I have a big question that may help me |
| 12:45.03 | ewon | http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/19/iphone-says-hello-world-here-come-the-3rd-party-apps/ |
| 12:45.08 | squalyl | how do bitbake links package name "myhello" and bb file? |
| 12:45.21 | squalyl | ewon \o/ I saw that |
| 12:47.42 | *** join/#openmoko xl0 (n=xl0@80.253.205.252) |
| 12:48.35 | zecke | squalyl: link? |
| 12:48.51 | zecke | squalyl: each bb file has a PN (PackageName) which is either set or extracted from the filename |
| 12:49.40 | squalyl | okay for that |
| 12:49.54 | squalyl | I think my problem comes from my new "packages" source |
| 12:50.14 | squalyl | my pakage is in a new directory, to insulate it from official openmoko packages |
| 12:50.28 | squalyl | I realized that SITE.CONF contains a list of packages sources |
| 12:50.41 | squalyl | I think I have to add my directory there |
| 12:51.06 | squalyl | answer: no. Same error. f***k |
| 12:52.35 | Dmitry_Platonov | Moscow, Russia. Light clouds. |
| 12:52.54 | zecke | squalyl: what is your definition of package source? |
| 12:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko Chairboy (n=chatzill@c-24-22-81-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 12:53.29 | zecke | squalyl: as documented in the awesome manual no one is reading, BBFILES is used to find buildable files |
| 12:54.44 | squalyl | yeah |
| 12:54.47 | squalyl | I know |
| 12:55.00 | squalyl | [squalyl@localhost myhello]$ echo $BBPATH |
| 12:55.04 | squalyl | /home/squalyl/OM/build:/home/squalyl/ftrd/oe:/home/squalyl/OM/openmoko/trunk/oe:/home/squalyl/OM/openembedded |
| 12:55.17 | squalyl | I added my new path |
| 12:55.25 | *** join/#openmoko xl0 (i=user@80.253.205.252) |
| 12:56.29 | zecke | squalyl: you might know but don't read. BBFILES != BBPATH |
| 12:56.47 | zecke | squalyl: BBPATH is used to find configuration files, classes |
| 12:57.06 | squalyl | i did not catch that |
| 12:57.08 | squalyl | sorry |
| 12:57.20 | squalyl | I read but I though they were related |
| 12:57.20 | BryceLeo | anyone successfully build minimo recently? |
| 12:57.37 | squalyl | ie BBFILES = find *.bb in $BBPATH |
| 12:57.42 | squalyl | thanks for that |
| 12:57.58 | hrw | BryceLeo: last time on tueasday |
| 12:58.11 | zecke | squalyl: BBPATH for stuff like include("conf/bitbake.conf") to find the righ file |
| 12:58.23 | squalyl | okay |
| 12:58.26 | zecke | squalyl: BBFILES to be informed which .bb files to take into account |
| 12:58.34 | squalyl | \o/ |
| 12:58.38 | BryceLeo | ok, well that's sort of good news |
| 12:58.42 | BryceLeo | thanks |
| 12:58.47 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 13:02.48 | squalyl | YES |
| 13:03.09 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 13:03.14 | squalyl | it worked (partially) I see a new file was added in the list (now 4354 instead of 4353) |
| 13:03.36 | squalyl | I added a BBFILE += ........ in local.conf |
| 13:03.44 | squalyl | I mean BBFILES+= |
| 13:08.47 | *** join/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12DAF0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:10.15 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dantaliz@n128-227-127-96.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 13:11.20 | quickdev | Is there already an instant messaging programm for openmoko? |
| 13:11.59 | ynezz | irssi for sure |
| 13:13.17 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 13:13.32 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but unless you have a bt kb it'll be painful |
| 13:13.48 | quickdev | It won't be usable through gprs? |
| 13:14.25 | ScaredyCat | well, yeah .... I use Qirc on my p910i over gprs.. |
| 13:14.41 | ScaredyCat | it's more a keyboard issue |
| 13:14.50 | ScaredyCat | typing will be slow |
| 13:15.15 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 13:16.15 | quickdev | ah...ok :P |
| 13:18.30 | ynezz | for me it's important to be idle on irc, not to type :) |
| 13:19.42 | ScaredyCat | wouldn;t it be better to use a permanent location then, fire up screen and connect from the neo occasionaly |
| 13:20.06 | ynezz | then it's not 100% mobile! |
| 13:20.11 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:21.03 | BryceLeo | lol so you just need to know that in your pocket you have the power to lurk irc? |
| 13:21.03 | *** join/#openmoko t0h (i=thelinev@nikita.tnnet.fi) |
| 13:21.10 | BryceLeo | very nice ynezz |
| 13:21.54 | ynezz | it was j/k, i'm running irssi,centericq,mutt in screen and using it from everywhere |
| 13:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:24.16 | BryceLeo | simple and effective, nice solution |
| 13:24.47 | ScaredyCat | ~sing |
| 13:24.48 | apt | "Night fever, night fever. You know how to do it!" |
| 13:24.48 | mokobot | here's a moko, there's a moko, and another open moko, fuzzy moko, funny moko, moko, moko, duck. |
| 13:24.48 | mokobot_ | here's a moko, there's a moko, and another open moko, fuzzy moko, funny moko, moko, moko, duck. |
| 13:25.14 | BryceLeo | lol |
| 13:25.50 | ewanm89_laptop | 2mokobots? |
| 13:25.56 | edistar | ^^ |
| 13:27.16 | edistar | on my nokia 770 I can install irssi but it is not at all useful as there is no ALT key.. very annoying.. can't even use it with screen then |
| 13:28.20 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, we'll have to creat mokofied versions. |
| 13:28.32 | ewanm89_laptop | ~sing |
| 13:28.32 | apt | ACTION sings off key Whaohwooaaoooaaah! Good bye 70s! |
| 13:28.32 | mokobot | here's a moko, there's a moko, and another open moko, fuzzy moko, funny moko, moko, moko, duck. |
| 13:28.32 | mokobot_ | here's a moko, there's a moko, and another open moko, fuzzy moko, funny moko, moko, moko, duck. |
| 13:28.44 | *** part/#openmoko bassinboy (n=yep@c-76-31-13-187.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:28.55 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: openmoko has no ALT either? :( |
| 13:29.12 | Vegar | it does |
| 13:29.13 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: It might do. |
| 13:29.15 | Vegar | not the openmoko keyboard |
| 13:29.18 | Vegar | but the other one |
| 13:29.31 | edistar | hm |
| 13:29.44 | edistar | well, I'll see ;) |
| 13:29.45 | ewanm89_laptop | So not on the onscreen one? |
| 13:30.09 | edistar | I think the onscreen one needs CTRL and ALT at least |
| 13:30.39 | edistar | at least for the shell ;) |
| 13:31.10 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: But it'll be very slow using hem, we cn come up with a much better solution. |
| 13:31.23 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: why slow? |
| 13:32.12 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: and if we modify the software that needs the shortcuts it's not a general solution.. |
| 13:32.12 | ewanm89_laptop | Because they are keys that are made to be held down. |
| 13:32.14 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: I was thinking of something else. |
| 13:32.21 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: ah |
| 13:32.30 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: please tell ;) |
| 13:33.09 | ewanm89_laptop | like maybe circle clockwise on a letter for ctrl, anticlockwise for alt, and tht letter? |
| 13:33.56 | ewanm89_laptop | What do you think? |
| 13:34.32 | edistar | sounds cool somehow |
| 13:34.36 | kristian-m | ewanm89_laptop like a dropdown, right? |
| 13:35.02 | ewanm89_laptop | kristian-m: I was thinking just circle one way or the other? |
| 13:35.16 | mellon | that sounds like a good gesture if you can detect it. |
| 13:35.24 | ewanm89_laptop | Well, it's another text input idea. |
| 13:35.31 | ynezz | why circle? up for uppercase, down for ctrl, right for alt |
| 13:35.38 | ynezz | it's even faster then circle |
| 13:35.45 | *** join/#openmoko fiveplusone (n=six@cpe-66-65-15-60.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 13:35.47 | ynezz | and left for enter maybe |
| 13:35.57 | mellon | easier to wind up at your target with a spiral. |
| 13:36.22 | edistar | circle is much more fun ;) |
| 13:36.41 | ynezz | but you have only two posibilities for bindings then |
| 13:36.42 | ewanm89_laptop | posibly, I thought there might be other things, it depends on the text input system that gets used in the end, see th wiki? |
| 13:36.55 | ynezz | and with left/righ/up/down you've 4... |
| 13:37.13 | ewanm89_laptop | ynezz: I thought the other four might be being used in a different way. |
| 13:37.17 | ScaredyCat | down for lower case :) |
| 13:37.23 | ynezz | it's default :) |
| 13:37.37 | ScaredyCat | so what's shift lock ? |
| 13:37.38 | ewanm89_laptop | The onscreen one does have ctrl and alt. |
| 13:37.48 | galexande | man, this billing/shipping process is comical |
| 13:38.12 | ewanm89_laptop | It was only an idea. |
| 13:38.26 | mellon | They are blessed, who are easily amused. |
| 13:38.26 | ynezz | but you have to press 2 keys for ctrl+c |
| 13:38.48 | ynezz | or just press c and move stylus left for ctrl+c |
| 13:38.57 | ewanm89_laptop | ynezz: Hence my idea. |
| 13:39.01 | ynezz | yep |
| 13:39.20 | ynezz | it's on windows like this |
| 13:39.30 | ynezz | s/windows/wince/ |
| 13:40.03 | ynezz | so it's (c)(tm)(r) probably :p |
| 13:40.23 | ynezz | but moko have ninja... |
| 13:40.27 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Userspace_root_image]] [[Wishlist:Tagging]] [[Wishlist:Set_Local_Time]] [[Wish_List]] [[Wishlist:Go]] [[Reader]] [[Sshfs]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware_-_Atmospheric]] [[Wifidog_Hotspot_Finder]] [[USB_Networking]] [[USB_Connection_Status]] and other changes |
| 13:40.27 | ScaredyCat | galexande: it is only 6:40am at the moment, we can let them off a little :) |
| 13:40.31 | ewanm89_laptop | So we'll used circles instead (after all I came up with this idea)? |
| 13:40.45 | ynezz | use what you want :) |
| 13:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@81-208-74-190.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 13:41.07 | galexande | scaredy, eh? it looks from my perspective like they've had our credit card numbers for 11 days and still haven't figured out how to run a transaction through |
| 13:41.08 | ScaredyCat | we want configurable gestures |
| 13:41.10 | mellon | running code, man. that's where it's at. |
| 13:41.12 | ewanm89_laptop | ynezz: You seen the text input wiki page? |
| 13:41.20 | ynezz | nope |
| 13:41.30 | edistar | http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/7/75/Stylus_06_input_keypad.png will the keyboard be moveable? on this pic it looks like its floating.. |
| 13:41.35 | ScaredyCat | galexande: you don;t have to convince me... |
| 13:41.38 | ynezz | i'm not going to type text on moko |
| 13:41.47 | mellon | yow. that's certainly nicely sculpted. |
| 13:41.49 | ScaredyCat | I already think it's crappy |
| 13:42.02 | galexande | it's past crappy all the way to hillarious |
| 13:42.25 | galexande | if you filmed their office and cut out the boring parts it'd be a three stooges ep |
| 13:42.32 | ScaredyCat | that keyboard needs to be bigger - fat fingers n all |
| 13:42.40 | ScaredyCat | lol galexande |
| 13:43.01 | mellon | I suspect it's majorly un-fun to be working in that office right now. |
| 13:43.15 | ScaredyCat | we want bluetooth finger attachments... |
| 13:43.25 | ScaredyCat | wiggle your fingers to type |
| 13:43.39 | galexande | i want a bluetooth eeg |
| 13:43.51 | ewanm89_laptop | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Text_Input |
| 13:44.51 | kristian-m | edistar no it's not, yet |
| 13:45.04 | edistar | when will who decide which input will be implemented? |
| 13:45.16 | *** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@c-68-49-173-78.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 13:45.25 | galexande | edistar, you will decide whenever you want |
| 13:45.53 | galexande | i will see to it that my pie menueseque thing gets ported, for example |
| 13:45.58 | ewanm89_laptop | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:46.04 | kristian-m | edistar just go ahead and code on - then it's implemented |
| 13:46.25 | galexande | why isn't xstroke in this list? |
| 13:46.26 | galexande | xstroke is great |
| 13:46.31 | galexande | and works with matchbox great |
| 13:46.47 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: You could always add it, it is a wiki. |
| 13:46.50 | edistar | kristian-m: hm ;) well, it is practical to have loads of methods available? Seems confusing to me |
| 13:47.22 | cjb_ie | dvorak for the win! |
| 13:47.29 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: lol |
| 13:47.39 | edistar | noone will get used to dvorak on the moko! |
| 13:47.55 | cjb_ie | i will! actually, no, i won't, because i'm already used to it. |
| 13:47.57 | loufoque | what is dvorak? |
| 13:48.01 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: Unless they already use dvorak ;) |
| 13:48.01 | loufoque | a keyboard type? |
| 13:48.06 | Vegar | a keyboard layout |
| 13:48.15 | cjb_ie | a layout that isn't designed to slow down your typing like qwerty was |
| 13:48.16 | ewanm89_laptop | loufoque: A layout more specifically. |
| 13:48.36 | ewanm89_laptop | qwerty was designed to stop typewriters jamming. |
| 13:48.51 | cjb_ie | qwerty was designed in the 1860s along with the first typewriters and was designed to slow peoples' typing down so the typewriters wouldn't jam |
| 13:49.21 | mellon | that's a myth |
| 13:49.43 | ewanm89_laptop | With digital keyboards it's nolonger a problem, so dvorak created the keyboard that most fits typing english. |
| 13:49.45 | ewon | dvorak is for pretentious cocks who don't want other people to use their computers. |
| 13:49.52 | mellon | that's also a myth |
| 13:50.02 | mellon | (My wife uses Dvorak, and she's really not pretentious) |
| 13:50.43 | galexande | all the qwerty creation stories are myths, but the layout is still insanely stupid |
| 13:50.43 | ScaredyCat | it's a keyboard layout, make it cofigurable |
| 13:50.45 | mellon | The qwerty designed-to-be-slow myth was actually promulgated by the Dvorak guys to get the Army to pay to adopt their system. |
| 13:50.54 | ewanm89_laptop | It wasn't to slow them down, it was so that the bar next to it wasn't likely to be the next to move (causin a jam), a problem with mechanics at the time. |
| 13:51.00 | mellon | THe actual reason for qwerty was to optimize typing speed. |
| 13:51.07 | mellon | RIght. |
| 13:51.21 | ewanm89_laptop | mellon: No, it was to stop jams. |
| 13:51.31 | galexande | qwerty is especially bad on typewriters because all the sequential letters (rate, for example) are close together |
| 13:51.32 | mellon | right, to optimize typing speed. |
| 13:51.32 | cjb_ie | mellon: yet all the commonly-used keys need lots more effort to reach than on dvorak |
| 13:51.33 | ScaredyCat | traffic jams |
| 13:51.44 | galexande | so the hammers have to go all the way back down before you press the next one, whereas if they were on alternate hands like dvorak it wouldn't have this problem. |
| 13:52.07 | mellon | Nope, no matter what typing system you have, you can type fast enough to jam a manual typewriter. |
| 13:52.10 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: Wrong way around. |
| 13:52.14 | galexande | ewan, qwerty is acutally worse about that than most layouts |
| 13:52.15 | mellon | Trust me, I know. :') |
| 13:52.23 | edistar | well... fact is that most people will want to keep qwerty.. and on a touchscreen I think noone will gain any advantages from dvorak.. |
| 13:52.35 | galexande | they may have designed it to be the other way around, but they were obviiously kernel hackers designing keyboard layouts :) |
| 13:52.47 | galexande | yeah on a touchscreen we might as well offer qwerty and ABCd |
| 13:52.49 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: lol |
| 13:52.51 | mellon | the advantage to supporting multiple layouts is simply that the people who are used to a particular layout on their regular keyboard will be faster on that layout on the screen. |
| 13:52.58 | cjb_ie | edistar: my p910i drives me _mental_ that its touchscreen is qwerty only |
| 13:53.17 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:53.17 | galexande | as i recall, xkbd is prretty configurable |
| 13:53.38 | mellon | I think a ThinkOutside stowaway is the clear winner here... :') |
| 13:53.40 | edistar | cjb_ie: I can imagine.. |
| 13:53.42 | cjb_ie | the flip down keyb on the p910 is just horrid though. |
| 13:54.30 | edistar | I would like to learn dvorak but as I type a lot on other pcs I think it won't help much |
| 13:55.10 | mellon | It gets you about a 5% speedup. And it's good if you have RSI problems. Otherwise, don't bother. |
| 13:55.11 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: Any keyboard cn be set to dvorak, just ignore the letters on the keys. |
| 13:55.17 | edistar | so I think only having it in openmoko won't help, but why not let the user choose? Aren't the keys just mapped differently? |
| 13:55.35 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: yes. |
| 13:55.45 | galexande | it took me about two months to learn dvorak, and then another two months to become bikeyboardal, and on top of that two weeks to relearn vi in qwerty :) |
| 13:56.17 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@121.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 13:56.52 | edistar | so I don't see any problems... just remap the icons on each key and the keymap... could even be an additional factor for adverts.. |
| 13:57.11 | galexande | i'm fairly certain that with xkbd, it is trivial |
| 13:57.15 | galexande | at worst it is changing a .h file |
| 13:58.36 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, I'm not sure on the strokes in openmokos stroke recogniser, anyone know? |
| 13:58.49 | mintee | i assume no more news on the shipping dates right? |
| 13:59.02 | mellon | nope. it's 7am in california. |
| 13:59.08 | galexande | openmoko has a stroker? |
| 13:59.15 | ewanm89_laptop | You would want to change the keyboard image too. |
| 13:59.18 | galexande | xstroke will run on openmoko easily, and it is great |
| 13:59.19 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: Yes |
| 13:59.20 | *** join/#openmoko cel (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 13:59.25 | daxxar | A "stroker"? |
| 13:59.33 | ewanm89_laptop | It has one there already. |
| 13:59.40 | mintee | O_o |
| 13:59.42 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F8B7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:59.45 | galexande | oh right, matthew allum or someoen integrated xstroke++ into matchbox? |
| 14:00.24 | galexande | xstroke is a mix between palm graffiti and english, i suspect most peolpe would take that route |
| 14:00.57 | cel | test |
| 14:01.01 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:01.03 | galexande | s/english/latin? |
| 14:01.55 | squalyl | I will get mad X_X |
| 14:02.01 | squalyl | http://www.pastebin.ca/627724 |
| 14:02.10 | squalyl | why do it UPDATE and not CHECKOUT !! |
| 14:02.27 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: Got a list of the stroke++ mappings? |
| 14:02.47 | ewanm89_laptop | squalyl: update only gets changes. |
| 14:02.54 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@67.70.212.228) |
| 14:03.07 | galexande | oh, matchbox-stroke is derived from xstroke but uses xml to specify the strokes, so we could redialect it trivially |
| 14:03.37 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@user-5441aa30.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 14:03.38 | squalyl | ewanm89_laptop > I know that but I do want it to checkout my project completely |
| 14:04.13 | cel | nice jmirc runs on the imcosys :) |
| 14:04.20 | squalyl | do_fetch should get all the source before configuring it ! |
| 14:05.11 | *** join/#openmoko cel_ (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 14:05.24 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: straight down gives a 2 atm? |
| 14:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@142.163.211.34) |
| 14:05.58 | squalyl | It will take me a complete day to compile int main() { printf("hello world\n"); } in openmoko! |
| 14:05.59 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:06.17 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@blfd-4db578eb.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 14:06.19 | galexande | eep, matchbox-stroke uses xstroke's system. you draw a character and when you're done it maps it to a 3x3 grid, like the number pad, so a diagonal line from upper-right to lower-left generates the string "951", and then theh XML file has a line like <stroke sloppy="951" action="foreslash"> |
| 14:06.26 | galexande | actually, that would be carriage return probably |
| 14:07.04 | galexande | ewan, <stroke sloppy="1?23?[26]?5[48]?([47]*?[58]+|47?[58]*)[69]*" action="2"/> |
| 14:07.06 | *** join/#openmoko OGrandeDiEnne (n=valerio@host-84-220-26-243.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 14:07.17 | galexande | i don't know how his uh "regex" there works :) |
| 14:07.18 | OGrandeDiEnne | hello guys |
| 14:07.52 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: All I get is a white box to do it in, and some odd mappings. |
| 14:09.00 | galexande | well, if you get xstroke, numbers and letters are at least pretty trivial :) |
| 14:09.14 | galexande | and you can draw on any application, rather than in a little box |
| 14:09.35 | galexande | (in other words, i'm out of date on the issue, but there are great solutions out there) |
| 14:10.07 | ewanm89_laptop | It goes int the app, but the box to draw on is th bottom half of the screen. |
| 14:11.55 | OGrandeDiEnne | umm.. can i ask you some questions? |
| 14:11.57 | aloril | OGrandeDiEnne: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:13.06 | OGrandeDiEnne | ok.. i see the faq frist |
| 14:13.13 | OGrandeDiEnne | first |
| 14:14.19 | squalyl | This RTFM bot is impressive when you come here first... ^^ |
| 14:15.17 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 14:15.22 | kristian-m | squalyl see http://forums.gregarius.net/comments.php?DiscussionID=289 |
| 14:15.29 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 14:15.53 | kristian-m | squalyl maybe you can try "svn switch svn://svn.unsads.com/squalyl/ftrd/src/;proto=https;module=myhello" or something |
| 14:16.29 | ewanm89_laptop | squalyl: You mean aloril |
| 14:16.36 | squalyl | I cant try anything since this thing is handled by bitbake itself |
| 14:17.10 | ewanm89_laptop | squalyl: Can't bitbake handle a download of a tar.gz? |
| 14:17.16 | ewon | we need a moko compile farm |
| 14:17.19 | squalyl | I dont try something strange, I just try to get checkout working for my package, it already works for other openmoko packages ! |
| 14:17.40 | *** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 14:17.44 | squalyl | ewarnm > I dont download the tar gz by svn |
| 14:17.52 | squalyl | I checkout the normal source tree |
| 14:18.03 | ewanm89_laptop | squalyl: I know, and learn to use tab please. |
| 14:18.12 | ewon | heh |
| 14:18.18 | squalyl | ewanm89_laptop: truly sorry |
| 14:18.30 | ewanm89_laptop | But isn't it easier to use a tar.gz? |
| 14:19.01 | ewanm89_laptop | Zip up everything in the repo and get it to download. |
| 14:19.17 | squalyl | Yes it is, but I am constantly working on the source now, so it would prevent me from rebuilding a tarball everytime I change a line |
| 14:19.47 | squalyl | I know this feature works, other packages use it. |
| 14:20.43 | ewanm89_laptop | squalyl: pastebin your bitbake file. |
| 14:21.33 | zecke | squalyl: you have issues reading manuals, right? |
| 14:22.13 | zecke | squalyl: I haven't followed your conversation but there are examples of using svn in the bitbake manual, and there are +100 examples in OE itself |
| 14:22.30 | squalyl | http://www.pastebin.ca/627744 |
| 14:22.42 | squalyl | zecke > read my bb file first |
| 14:22.48 | SpeedEvil | Can someone try wget http://b030.tfh-berlin.de/OpenMoko-Dev-x86_2007-07-16.img.bz2 ? |
| 14:22.51 | SpeedEvil | It breaks for me. |
| 14:23.03 | SpeedEvil | For reasons I'm not entirely sure of - downloads a coupleof K |
| 14:23.18 | borg_ | SpeedEvil: no problem here |
| 14:23.20 | borg_ | works fine |
| 14:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 14:23.26 | mokobot | Hey, it's Bill Gates' lover boy |
| 14:23.27 | mokobot_ | Hey, it's Bill Gates' lover boy |
| 14:23.35 | ewon | o0 |
| 14:23.36 | zecke | squalyl: what is the issue? |
| 14:23.49 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 14:23.52 | borg_ | SpeedEvil: http://www.pastebin.ca/627746 |
| 14:23.58 | SpeedEvil | Works for broeswe |
| 14:24.00 | squalyl | bitbake tries to do an update instead of a checkout |
| 14:24.03 | summatusmentis | dtx: are you gonna take that from mokobot ? |
| 14:24.19 | ewon | interesting. alt+a cycles through your active windows in irssi. I never knew |
| 14:25.11 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:25.16 | ewanm89_laptop | summatusmentis: And it can go back in there quite easily. |
| 14:25.32 | Sup3rkiddo | hi all |
| 14:25.44 | ewanm89_laptop | Hi |
| 14:26.28 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 14:27.44 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil the server is up and running - everythin seems fine - maybe you can use wget -c |
| 14:28.56 | *** part/#openmoko OGrandeDiEnne (n=valerio@host-84-220-26-243.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 14:29.06 | dtx | mokobot's are fun |
| 14:29.13 | dtx | mokobots* |
| 14:29.42 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: Um, but the other one won't even give me the help listing. |
| 14:29.57 | dtx | mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 mokobot_: rot13 V gnxr hc gur frevny cbeg. |
| 14:30.01 | dtx | ah |
| 14:30.03 | dtx | thats sad |
| 14:30.37 | SpeedEvil | kristian-m: no - it's doing something _odd_ |
| 14:30.37 | squalyl | mokobot: 6*7 |
| 14:30.37 | mokobot | 42 |
| 14:30.37 | mokobot_ | 42 |
| 14:30.42 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: It's seems to have managed to geet 2 nicks. |
| 14:31.23 | *** join/#openmoko jebba (n=jebba@220-179-89-200.fibertel.com.ar) |
| 14:31.28 | dtx | apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 V gnxr hc gur frevny cbeg. |
| 14:31.28 | apt | mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 ... |
| 14:31.28 | mokobot_ | apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 ... |
| 14:31.28 | apt | mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 ... |
| 14:31.29 | mokobot | apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 ... |
| 14:31.29 | apt | mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 ... |
| 14:31.30 | mokobot_ | apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 ... |
| 14:31.30 | apt | mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 ... |
| 14:31.34 | squalyl | aaaah |
| 14:31.36 | mokobot | apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 ... |
| 14:31.36 | apt | mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 ... |
| 14:31.36 | dtx | They can still play with each other |
| 14:31.42 | mokobot_ | apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 ... |
| 14:31.42 | apt | mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 ... |
| 14:31.46 | ewon | christ almighty, kick one of them |
| 14:31.48 | mokobot_ | apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 ... |
| 14:31.48 | apt | mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 ... |
| 14:31.49 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: help |
| 14:31.52 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: help |
| 14:31.52 | squalyl | sw337 |
| 14:31.52 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: help |
| 14:31.59 | SpeedEvil | Length: -948,847,521 [text/plain] |
| 14:32.03 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:32.03 | SpeedEvil | 15:31:42 (1.02 MB/s) - `OpenMoko-Dev-x86_2007-07-16.img.bz2' saved [1072/-948847521]) |
| 14:32.17 | dtx | mokobomb |
| 14:32.30 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: you totally crashed it. |
| 14:32.31 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D817B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:32.45 | squalyl | mokobot: 21*2 |
| 14:32.46 | mellon | Kids These Days |
| 14:32.52 | squalyl | poor bot |
| 14:32.59 | dtx | I didn't crash it |
| 14:33.14 | dtx | They just got kicked cuz they were flooding the channel. Those asshole bots |
| 14:33.16 | dtx | ;-) |
| 14:33.44 | dtx | apt: rot13 V gnxr hc gur frevny cbeg. |
| 14:33.44 | apt | I take up the serial port. |
| 14:33.48 | dtx | whoops |
| 14:33.57 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: It didn't kick, it crashed. |
| 14:34.10 | dtx | wow |
| 14:34.13 | dtx | thats odd |
| 14:34.19 | dtx | not really that complex an op |
| 14:34.49 | *** join/#openmoko ratur (n=ratur@198.182-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 14:34.56 | squalyl | YAY \o/ it works, I had an old svn version that was effectively located elsewhere and i tried to checkout another URL on top of that |
| 14:35.05 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:35.13 | dtx | apt: rot13 V gnxr vg hc gur frevny cbeg. |
| 14:35.13 | apt | I take it up the serial port. |
| 14:35.13 | galexande | why do we have two bots with the same software (same bugs) |
| 14:35.17 | dtx | There we go. |
| 14:36.36 | dtx | Beats me |
| 14:36.42 | dtx | I guess so one can crash |
| 14:37.13 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: It's as one is in #openmoko-dev too. |
| 14:38.09 | dtx | not now |
| 14:38.17 | dtx | apparently |
| 14:38.35 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil maybe you've got a 2GB problem there |
| 14:38.53 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil try upgrading your wget and not using vfat |
| 14:39.18 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:39.39 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: ignore apt*@* |
| 14:39.39 | mokobot | error: chan #openmoko is invalid. |
| 14:40.06 | *** join/#openmoko gokiwork (n=itis@dsl-217-155-137-246.zen.co.uk) |
| 14:40.15 | dtx | odd |
| 14:40.20 | squalyl | I definitely have to code an irc_bot :D |
| 14:41.17 | dtx | I want an Alice chat bot |
| 14:41.26 | dtx | plugin for GAIM |
| 14:41.32 | dtx | er.. excuse me... Pidgin |
| 14:43.17 | dtx | Wow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4LC0yTlR74&NR=1 |
| 14:45.37 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:45.49 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: ignore apt*@* |
| 14:45.49 | mokobot | error: chan #openmoko is invalid. |
| 14:46.19 | squalyl | we need a grammatical parser to get a powerful bot |
| 14:46.38 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@gprs-ggsn5-nat.mobil.telenor.no) |
| 14:46.46 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-206-249-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:49.36 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: addignore apt*@* |
| 14:49.46 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: addignore apt* |
| 14:50.17 | ewanm89_laptop | yes |
| 14:50.22 | squalyl | ok I'm near from OK, nice week end to everyone, bye! |
| 14:50.48 | *** part/#openmoko squalyl (n=squalyl@139.100.140.128) |
| 14:51.18 | mbuf | when i do make qemu i get the zlib.h: No such file or directory error; completed doing "make openmoko-devel-image" |
| 14:51.30 | ewanm89_laptop | apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: rot13 zbxbobg: ebg13 apt: |
| 14:51.30 | apt | mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: ebg13 mokobot: rot13 ncg: |
| 14:51.50 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: Fixed it for you. |
| 14:52.53 | Kero | argh! |
| 14:53.33 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:53.38 | Kero | you might consider playing w/ a multitude of bots elsewhere |
| 14:53.57 | ewanm89_laptop | Kero: I've fixed it now. |
| 14:54.04 | ewanm89_laptop | thanks dtx. |
| 14:54.55 | mintee | Strength is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. We wish to improve ourselves. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service ours. Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You must comply. |
| 14:55.06 | mintee | Exterminate! Annihilate! Destroy! |
| 14:55.42 | mbuf | ok, had to install zlib1g-dev |
| 14:56.37 | ewanm89_laptop | data: Target these coordinates... |
| 14:56.40 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ACF0C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:57.20 | ewanm89_laptop | mintee: They do none of those the borg just assimilate. |
| 14:58.43 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-206-249-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-206-249-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 15:00.11 | *** join/#openmoko sherbang (n=sherbang@69.182.224.2) |
| 15:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis1 (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 15:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1167863929.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:04.17 | summatusmentis | stupid connection |
| 15:05.07 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=familia@201.244.109.50) |
| 15:08.51 | *** join/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 15:09.38 | dtx | mokobot doesn't like to play with other bots now? |
| 15:09.38 | mokobot | dtx: have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ? |
| 15:09.46 | *** join/#openmoko NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D62F.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 15:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@balance.wiw.org) |
| 15:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181222091.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:09.58 | NeoStrider | anyone uses the garage here? |
| 15:09.59 | galexande | hahaha |
| 15:10.03 | NeoStrider | sorry |
| 15:10.05 | NeoStrider | wrong channel |
| 15:10.30 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: Incorrect, mokobot doesn't play with apt anymore. |
| 15:11.20 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:14.30 | *** join/#openmoko cel (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:15.07 | *** part/#openmoko cel (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:15.33 | mbuf | when i run make qemu-run, i get a compressed, distorted image on F8; do i need to specify any screen resolution? |
| 15:17.13 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:19.53 | kristian-m | mbuf try setting export DISPLAY=:0.0 |
| 15:20.03 | *** part/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12DAF0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:20.10 | kristian-m | mbuf you mean the console on F8, right? |
| 15:20.42 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:23.45 | dtx | are there any other bts |
| 15:23.49 | dtx | s/bts/bots/ |
| 15:23.53 | mikesh | to bys mel jako student VSE vedet, ne? |
| 15:23.56 | mikesh | sorry |
| 15:24.10 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 15:24.49 | dtx | mokobot: rot13 V'z nyy nybar va guvf jbeyq. |
| 15:24.49 | mokobot | I'm all alone in this world. |
| 15:26.59 | SpeedEvil | mokobot: rot13 /cneg |
| 15:27.00 | mokobot | /part |
| 15:27.13 | mellon | nice try |
| 15:27.17 | dtx | haha |
| 15:27.52 | dtx | mokobot: rot13 /xvpx FcrrqRivy |
| 15:27.53 | mokobot | /kick SpeedEvil |
| 15:27.56 | dtx | hehe |
| 15:28.13 | mellon | I feel a little like one of those guys on the iPhone lines... |
| 15:28.36 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@121.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 15:28.42 | dtx | Except less pathetic |
| 15:28.50 | dtx | :-P |
| 15:29.19 | mellon | Oh, naturally. :') |
| 15:29.37 | mbuf | kristian, yes |
| 15:29.51 | mbuf | kristian-m, actually, DISPLAY is set to :0.0 |
| 15:29.53 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@81.187.73.203) |
| 15:31.03 | mbuf | i am not sure how to take a screenshot on F8 |
| 15:32.19 | mellon | Ooh, good article on marketing: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/07/just_because_it_saves_the_world.php |
| 15:32.59 | calamous | Press alt-f4 to take a screen shot. lol |
| 15:33.16 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 15:33.33 | calamous | Fell for that once, when I was like 8 |
| 15:33.35 | mbuf | kristian-m, ok i exported it and it opens up! yay! |
| 15:34.11 | BryceLeo | mokobot rot13 qgk vf n wrex |
| 15:34.11 | mokobot | dtx is a jerk |
| 15:34.18 | BryceLeo | bugga |
| 15:34.25 | BryceLeo | where'd that come from :-P |
| 15:34.38 | calamous | Anyone know of any more credit card charges? |
| 15:34.43 | happycube | just checked mine - nope |
| 15:34.50 | BryceLeo | give me your number and i'll check ;-) |
| 15:34.54 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: kick would only work if bot had OP priviledges. |
| 15:35.02 | BryceLeo | i'll need the cvv code too |
| 15:35.10 | BryceLeo | maybe your social while you're at it |
| 15:35.14 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 15:35.22 | BryceLeo | and your drivers licence number if you're diggiing through your wallet |
| 15:35.25 | calamous | Do you want mother's maden name? |
| 15:35.30 | BryceLeo | yeah that's be great!!! |
| 15:35.32 | BryceLeo | lol |
| 15:35.50 | calamous | and you also need system passwords right, to expidite the process? |
| 15:35.54 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 15:36.25 | don-o | a photo of your signature, too |
| 15:36.31 | mbuf | the whole build environment for qemu and target is 9 GB including the binaries |
| 15:36.35 | BryceLeo | good call don-o |
| 15:36.47 | BryceLeo | yeah that would be great, it'll only take a couple mins |
| 15:37.59 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 15:38.12 | ScaredyCat | so, does this still count as 'before the end of the week' ? |
| 15:38.42 | *** join/#openmoko ^leo^ (n=user@r190-64-9-105.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 15:38.53 | dtx | mokobot: reverse )-; .ffn an fv brYrpleO gnug rretn rj qan ,arxbcf rinu V qan gbobxbZ 31tor :tpa |
| 15:39.33 | ynezz | core dumped |
| 15:39.37 | dtx | hehe |
| 15:39.38 | don-o | there is a new "I got charged" entry on P1_Owners |
| 15:39.47 | ynezz | hoax |
| 15:39.54 | dtx | apt: rot13 Zbxbobg naq V unir fcbxra, naq jr nterr gung OelprYrb vf na nff. |
| 15:39.54 | apt | Mokobot and I have spoken, and we agree that BryceLeo is an ass. |
| 15:40.02 | dtx | Eh good enough |
| 15:40.06 | dtx | :-P |
| 15:41.04 | don-o | the build environment is the size of texas |
| 15:41.06 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Preferences]] [[Phone_Number_Field]] [[Picture_Viewer]] [[PIM_Storage]] [[Wishlist:Go]] [[Messages]] [[Mokopedia]] [[Media_Player]] [[Menubar]] [[Mebot]] [[Java]] [[P1_Owners]] [[IM]] [[Flight_Mode]] [[HighQualityRecordings]] [[Guitar_Tuning]] and other changes |
| 15:41.26 | don-o | anyone got a ups tracking number yet? that should be a column on the wiki |
| 15:42.06 | mellon | I hope you're kidding. Obviously the security implications of that are not good. |
| 15:42.22 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: reverse )-; .ffn an fv brYrpleO gnug rretn rj qan ,arxbcf rinu V qan gbobxbZ 31tor :tpa |
| 15:42.37 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: reverse )-; .ffn an fv brYrpleO gnug rretn rj qan ,arxbcf rinu V qan gbobxbZ 31tor :tpa |
| 15:42.43 | don-o | mellon: just a yes/no, not the number itself |
| 15:42.53 | mellon | ah, okay. |
| 15:42.58 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:43.25 | don-o | so we got two charges on Wed, one charge on Thu |
| 15:43.35 | don-o | by the end of the year shipping 1 should be processed. |
| 15:43.36 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: reverse )-; .ffn an fv brYrpleO gnug rretn rj qan ,arxbcf rinu V qan gbobxbZ 31tor :tpa |
| 15:43.40 | don-o | s/shipping/shipment |
| 15:44.08 | ynezz | hm, so with my number #1952 i'll get charged in january/08 |
| 15:44.15 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-249.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:44.22 | dtx | mokobot: rot13 |\/|0|<01307 |
| 15:44.23 | mokobot | |\/|0|<01307 |
| 15:44.47 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: reverse )-; .ffn an fv brYrpleO gnug rretn rj qan ,arxbcf rinu V qan gbobxbZ 31tor :tpa |
| 15:44.49 | mokobot | apt: rot13 Zbxbobg naq V unir fcbxra, naq jr nterr gung OelprYrb vf na nff. ;-) |
| 15:44.49 | apt | Mokobot and I have spoken, and we agree that BryceLeo is an ass. ;-) |
| 15:45.21 | ewanm89_laptop | oops, I messed up a bit of config there. |
| 15:45.27 | dtx | haha |
| 15:45.28 | dtx | awesome |
| 15:45.55 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil should there be a category in_implementation? |
| 15:46.19 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 15:46.26 | SpeedEvil | Probably. |
| 15:46.34 | SpeedEvil | InProgress or something. |
| 15:46.35 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 15:46.55 | SpeedEvil | With the category page detailing who's doing it. |
| 15:47.36 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 15:47.43 | juri_ | and with my #25xx number... i should get mine shortly after the heat death of the universe. |
| 15:48.02 | dtx | mokobot: reverse .yag ma I |
| 15:48.04 | mokobot | I am gay. |
| 15:48.05 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil then one could see what is stilla todo or if anyone is already working on it |
| 15:48.05 | don-o | juri_: thats the spirit. here's hoping! :) |
| 15:48.06 | juri_ | deliver directly to milliways! :) |
| 15:48.33 | juri_ | (cause i know the $500 sitting arround in my account will cover a feast at milliways. ;) |
| 15:49.05 | dtx | mokobot: reverse .lauxesib m'I ko, lleW |
| 15:49.07 | mokobot | Well ,ok I'm bisexual. |
| 15:49.20 | bedboi | it's not a fault. |
| 15:49.32 | bedboi | it's an add-on |
| 15:50.13 | SpeedEvil | kristian-m: yeah. At the moment I'm just about halfway through special:allpages, doing a quick scan of each page and adding implemented or not implemented. Some will be incorrect, but... |
| 15:51.11 | dtx | mokobot: reverse .lanoitceridib yas ot tnaem I ,niaga em esucxE |
| 15:51.13 | mokobot | Excuse me again, I meant to say bidirectional. |
| 15:51.46 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 15:55.39 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178075207.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:57.24 | cel_ | mokobot: 622*1,2 |
| 15:57.33 | cel_ | mokobot: 622*1,2= |
| 15:57.43 | woglinde | hm |
| 15:58.09 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: 622*1.2 |
| 15:58.10 | mokobot | 746.4 |
| 15:58.34 | cel_ | mokobot dont likes me ;) |
| 15:58.55 | ewanm89_laptop | cel_: Look at the syntax difference. |
| 15:58.55 | cel_ | mokobot: 622*1.2 |
| 15:58.55 | mokobot | 746.4 |
| 15:59.02 | cel_ | thanks!! |
| 15:59.04 | Ycros | heh |
| 15:59.35 | ewanm89_laptop | Different parts of the world use different delimeters for the decimal point. |
| 15:59.46 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 15:59.51 | woglinde | mokobot: try utf-8 |
| 16:00.00 | woglinde | *g* |
| 16:02.01 | *** part/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 16:02.04 | dtx | mokobot: rot13 我只地方化在美国。 |
| 16:02.04 | mokobot | 我只地方化在美国。 |
| 16:03.33 | ewanm89_laptop | mintee: like that |
| 16:04.24 | juri_ | yea, i think i've had enough of bot-talk in here. ;) |
| 16:04.28 | dottedmag | BryceLeo: who cares if you don't see the interface? |
| 16:04.45 | mintee | haha, yes ericthefish_work... you shoud introduce them |
| 16:04.49 | *** join/#openmoko pitux (n=sonny@i05m-213-44-25-207.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 16:05.01 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: Because most of us geeks want our multitasking OS to ctually do so. |
| 16:05.38 | pitux | hi |
| 16:06.05 | ewanm89_laptop | s/ctully/actually/ |
| 16:06.07 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: so you're going to have your phone slow down and chew resources becuase you didn't click close on your contacts app? |
| 16:06.18 | BryceLeo | what kind of phone do you own? |
| 16:06.19 | dtx | I don't know. There is no telling how much number crunching is going on behind the scenes when Calc is not in the foreground. |
| 16:06.34 | galexande | bryce, you're right but your mindset is so fundamentally alien to the linux mindset that that seed will find this ground barren |
| 16:06.36 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: Yes, I hate such limitations in my current phone. |
| 16:06.45 | galexande | bryce, palmos works that way and it is very nice |
| 16:06.52 | BryceLeo | what's your current phone ewanm89_laptop |
| 16:07.04 | galexande | every app is just a big state machine that is designed to terminate and save all of its state in like 10ms, and then reload from scratch with the same state in another 10ms |
| 16:07.08 | *** join/#openmoko twt (i=twt@nat/google/x-e7098cbb4f27c356) |
| 16:07.15 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: Use suspend on switch rather than leave them fully running if you must. |
| 16:07.31 | BryceLeo | still haven't answered my question ewanm89_laptop |
| 16:07.51 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: It's not even a smart phone, (Motorola L6) |
| 16:07.55 | BryceLeo | galexande: it's a beautiful system, lets the phone that's using hardware from 2004 still preform damn well |
| 16:08.13 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 16:08.22 | galexande | bryce, yeah, but linux has already made most of the trade-offs for you so it doeesn't give you much advantage... |
| 16:08.30 | galexande | i.e., the neo is coming with 128MB RAM what are you whining about :) |
| 16:08.37 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: exactly my point. I know that multitasking is nice and in some cases rediculously helpful, but on a phone it wastes power most of the time, palmos is ancient yet snappy |
| 16:08.42 | galexande | (nevermind that palmos runs well in 1MB) |
| 16:09.10 | BryceLeo | galexande: i hate waste, programs and apps always get bigger and take more memory and cpu cycles |
| 16:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 16:09.24 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: So use task suspending, the linux mindeset. |
| 16:09.27 | BryceLeo | the less you use at a time the more one application can push the phone |
| 16:09.28 | galexande | bryce, i agree, i like to use really thin X programs |
| 16:09.40 | BryceLeo | task suspending isn't really that great |
| 16:10.08 | galexande | i was really looking forward to seeing what the palmos-on-linux that palm was talking about would look like |
| 16:10.12 | galexande | but i think they abandoned it a year or so ago |
| 16:10.16 | ewanm89_laptop | It allows me to switch and copy and paste unlike my current useless phone. |
| 16:10.29 | galexande | copy and paste is one thing i have never ever done on my ipaq :) |
| 16:10.57 | SpeedEvil | Personally. |
| 16:11.05 | woglinde | ScaredyCat no neo in sight? |
| 16:11.05 | SpeedEvil | I'm using a 128M laptop now. |
| 16:11.13 | galexande | though palmos, it must be noted, has a great copy-and-paste system, iirc. |
| 16:11.15 | BryceLeo | galexande: it should be around soon, access has their own and palm is licencing the 68k software layer |
| 16:11.16 | SpeedEvil | I have 10 shell windows open. |
| 16:11.21 | ScaredyCat | no, nothing... nada nix null |
| 16:11.22 | SpeedEvil | Firefox, with 14 tabs. |
| 16:11.28 | SpeedEvil | Works fine. |
| 16:11.29 | ewanm89_laptop | I've needed it on my L6 when someone has given me a link through irc in jmirc. |
| 16:11.36 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: so make a persistent clipboard |
| 16:11.45 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: much simpler and efficent |
| 16:12.14 | SpeedEvil | Idle applications do not use CPU |
| 16:12.19 | BryceLeo | galexande: it's a pretty good copy and paste, does quite well |
| 16:12.34 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: It has a persistant clipboard but it's a pain to fully disconnect then reconnect twice just to follow a link. |
| 16:12.45 | galexande | speed, but they use ram |
| 16:13.05 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil, they do technically use the cpu, when they get checked on to see if they need a timeslice |
| 16:13.19 | galexande | and if we get too many layers, that effect is compounded... just having the open windows resident in the X server could really bog us down if we have enough layers which are all looping foreach (all_windows) |
| 16:13.25 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: That runs anyway. |
| 16:13.28 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: what do you have to fully disconnect and re-connect? |
| 16:13.31 | galexande | but we'd pretty much have to be microsoft to get that far :) |
| 16:13.58 | ewanm89_laptop | IRC and the Web browser in the case I stated. |
| 16:14.23 | BryceLeo | i didn't say that it had to be for all applications, just most |
| 16:14.30 | BryceLeo | pretty much all the standard phone apps |
| 16:14.42 | ScaredyCat | DAGNABIT! |
| 16:14.57 | galexande | yeah for dialer/core pim apps, the user isn't fundamentally multitasking |
| 16:15.01 | BryceLeo | 99% of the time you don't want 2 things running, however when you do (im/irc &web) it makes sense |
| 16:15.09 | ewanm89_laptop | multitasking will be fine as long as the user is sensible and realises that t isn't as powerfull as their desktop. |
| 16:15.31 | BryceLeo | it's marketed to the masses |
| 16:15.55 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: do you do any computer support? |
| 16:16.45 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: Yes |
| 16:16.59 | BryceLeo | so you should know very well what the average user is like |
| 16:17.01 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@bbclaptop.student.umd.edu) |
| 16:17.09 | galexande | well, in my experience, on a palmtop i quickly settle into about half a dozen programs which i ever use |
| 16:17.19 | ewanm89_laptop | Unfortunatly I even support the administration team at the school I go to. |
| 16:17.22 | galexande | and i make sure to have varieties of those programs such that they can all be loaded at once without significant penalty |
| 16:17.39 | galexande | so as long as we make that easy for people, i think the neo will feel snappy to most users |
| 16:17.51 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: highscool? |
| 16:17.59 | galexande | but if the notepad or calendar program is bloatware and is loaded all the time, it will suck to be a user. |
| 16:18.06 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 16:18.07 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: equivilent of. |
| 16:18.17 | BryceLeo | galexande: even a flag that caues it to exit on loss of focus |
| 16:18.18 | *** join/#openmoko wowow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 16:19.00 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: Why not use signals built in to linux to do just that. |
| 16:19.18 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: i don't know what you're charging but my rates are 50(family)75(reg clients) an hour for support. They're mostly painfully dumb people who dont understand the simple htings |
| 16:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko cel (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 16:19.49 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: i'd like something where it's just a simple configurable flag for each app |
| 16:19.52 | BryceLeo | just a checkbox |
| 16:20.12 | BryceLeo | for instance people may want to always leave their contacts app open for some reason |
| 16:20.18 | BryceLeo | then they just click a check box |
| 16:20.19 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADBE1B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:20.55 | galexande | painfully dumb people suck |
| 16:21.13 | Aria | Got that right |
| 16:21.21 | galexande | in my opinion teaching painfully dumb people to use painfully dumb software is the most unpleasant thing ever |
| 16:21.28 | Aria | It so is. |
| 16:21.29 | galexande | worse than puking |
| 16:21.30 | woglinde | hehe yes |
| 16:21.52 | BryceLeo | galexande: tell me about it, and that's the way the majority is when it comes to computers, They want this fancy new thing, so they buy the cheapest one and want it to do absofreaking lutely everything |
| 16:22.22 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: My charging rates are ~= yours for windows, refreshments for macosx (admin team have no idea), free for linux/other opensouce unix atm. |
| 16:22.29 | Aria | It's nice breaking people of that habit. "Think simple." |
| 16:24.55 | BryceLeo | ahh mine are all around for mac/win/linux |
| 16:26.37 | zecke | woglinde: lust zu grillen? |
| 16:27.01 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: Well, they soon learnt I don't really support windows. |
| 16:27.46 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@user-5441aa30.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 16:27.58 | *** join/#openmoko F3E8A2F3 (n=F3E8A2F3@c-69-136-66-172.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 16:28.31 | *** part/#openmoko pitux (n=sonny@i05m-213-44-25-207.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 16:28.44 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: ahh ok. I pretty much do a bit of everything, i'm more win and linux, but macs are fine too |
| 16:30.32 | BryceLeo | alrighty guys i'm gonna head off and setup my new laptop |
| 16:30.36 | BryceLeo | i'll be idle |
| 16:31.20 | dtx | I told my parents that I'd only support Linux on their comp so I can quit messing with it / fixing it all the time |
| 16:31.35 | Aria | Hehe |
| 16:31.36 | dtx | I was surprised when my father figured out on his own how to burn CDs |
| 16:32.01 | dtx | I am so impressed with how far Linux on the desktop really has come |
| 16:32.07 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 16:32.08 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host81-151-39-213.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:32.16 | Aria | It so has. The design decisions being made seem pretty damn good these days. |
| 16:32.22 | Aria | and dbus was a GODSEND |
| 16:32.29 | Aria | Imperfect as it is, it WORKS |
| 16:32.48 | *** join/#openmoko Skuff_ (n=michael@i3ED6F5DA.versanet.de) |
| 16:33.06 | Skuff_ | hey all |
| 16:33.10 | dtx | howdy |
| 16:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-151-39-213.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:33.18 | dtx | So what exactly is dbus doing that is so great? |
| 16:33.22 | dtx | I never really got into it |
| 16:33.23 | Skuff_ | i got a problem compiling the dev-image |
| 16:33.40 | oelewapperke | dtx: it's trying to change linux into an event-driven system |
| 16:33.55 | oelewapperke | it's a RPC system that extends into the kernel |
| 16:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=Administ@pD953A94E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:34.19 | Aria | It doesn't extend into the kernel |
| 16:34.35 | galexande | i think dbus is like apple's configd |
| 16:34.39 | Aria | Really, it's pretty analogous to a wire protocol spec plus multicast unix-domain sockets |
| 16:34.42 | galexande | it provides a convenient central clearing house for configuration events |
| 16:34.43 | Aria | Plus some filters. |
| 16:34.56 | galexande | so if you want to make a program that runs every time the network interface comes up, you can register a hook in dbus |
| 16:34.57 | Aria | And it notifies of events, but has nothing to do with configuration |
| 16:35.01 | Aria | Yeah. |
| 16:35.16 | Aria | The wire format interop spec is really spiffy. It's a very sane protocol. |
| 16:35.27 | Aria | It's really rather simple. |
| 16:35.33 | Aria | (as opposed to say, CORBA) |
| 16:35.44 | Aria | (which it replaced on the desktop nearly overnight) |
| 16:35.52 | galexande | so like if you make a gps program that monitors your location and sets your location to one of {home, work, other} then it would notify dbus and then any number of applications might respond |
| 16:35.58 | Aria | Yeah. |
| 16:36.14 | Skuff_ | i had to cancle the compilation after a view hours ... now i want to resume. i got the error: ERROR: Build of openmoko-devel-image failed. any ideas? |
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| 16:37.41 | galexande | skuff, figure out which package is causing the problem and do a make clean-package-packagename |
| 16:37.43 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A9A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:37.51 | galexande | skuff, sometimes one packagewill wind up in a funny state if it is interrupted |
| 16:37.52 | SiO2 | hi |
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| 16:38.15 | galexande | are you glass? |
| 16:39.18 | dtx | So programs listen on like a named channel registered with dbus? And then other programs can make RPC calls over that channel essentially? |
| 16:40.02 | BryceLeo | galexande: i think i's just a quartz crystal |
| 16:40.03 | dtx | Or I guess programs subscribe to events by name and are notified when they occur, right? |
| 16:40.09 | BryceLeo | maybe ameythst depending on the impurities |
| 16:40.14 | galexande | dtx, i think that someone sending an event to dbus would not necessarily know all of the listeners for that event |
| 16:40.19 | BryceLeo | oh and dtx i've got both my mom and dad on linux computers |
| 16:40.22 | galexande | so probably the latter |
| 16:40.26 | Aria | dtx: Essentially. |
| 16:40.32 | galexande | yeah it's "silica" |
| 16:40.43 | Aria | And yeah. Events are just sent and listeners get them. Subject to filters configured into the bus |
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| 16:40.58 | Aria | So udev triggers hald, hald sends "device connected", the mounter mounts it |
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| 16:41.12 | Aria | The file browser opens the window when the mounter signals |
| 16:41.17 | dtx | I'm assuming the events have a data payload associated with them right? |
| 16:41.22 | Aria | Yes, they do. |
| 16:41.34 | dtx | I see |
| 16:41.36 | Aria | DBus' on-wire format represents "objects", essentially, and some primitive data types. |
| 16:41.37 | dtx | Awesome |
| 16:41.50 | dtx | So hald is a udev/dbus bridge? |
| 16:42.03 | Aria | Yep. |
| 16:42.11 | dtx | Wow cool |
| 16:42.23 | Aria | It's so simple. They got the right 80% this time. |
| 16:42.31 | Aria | CORBA tried to be 100%, and missed in doing so. |
| 16:42.45 | mdt | ...but dbus may be used for session also, its a generell ipc mechanism. i use it on a embedded system for that... nice stuff... |
| 16:42.51 | galexande | aria, which reference should i read, i will need to understand dbus |
| 16:42.55 | Aria | (the bootstrapping problem and security problem both interfered) |
| 16:43.07 | mdt | http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/IntroductionToDBus |
| 16:43.08 | Aria | Lessee. the dbus API illuminates a lot. |
| 16:43.10 | Aria | And that |
| 16:43.11 | dtx | CORBA was really convoluted right? |
| 16:43.14 | Aria | Yeah, it is. |
| 16:43.19 | mmazur | It is, it is. |
| 16:43.22 | galexande | thanks mdt |
| 16:43.25 | BryceLeo | CORBA f*ing sucks |
| 16:43.31 | Aria | Largely not interoperable because of those two problems |
| 16:43.40 | dtx | I remember glancing over CORBA docs when I was doing Java dev a long time ago |
| 16:43.45 | mdt | there are different bindings... but in my oppinion most of them sucks |
| 16:43.46 | Aria | No to ORBs can agree on things like ports, security negotiation, etc. |
| 16:43.46 | galexande | i read this now, i'll be ready to grok the api later |
| 16:43.47 | dtx | It made me want to gouge my eyes out |
| 16:43.53 | Kensan | Aria: do you know if/how Upstart and DBus interact? |
| 16:43.56 | Aria | Dbus saves a lot by not trying to handle inter-computer messaging. |
| 16:44.14 | Aria | Kensan: I don't. I imagine upstart sends dbus signals as things start, though. And itself reacts to some of those signals |
| 16:44.19 | galexande | how is a typical connection to dbus performed? udp? |
| 16:44.29 | Aria | abstract unix-domain socket |
| 16:44.34 | galexande | nice |
| 16:44.35 | mdt | this is the basis: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus/libdbus-tutorial.html but glib bindings exists with an object view |
| 16:44.38 | Skuff_ | galexande, i cleaned thepackage, same eror |
| 16:44.39 | Aria | connect to "\0/some/socket/name" |
| 16:44.58 | galexande | skuff, sorry you'll have to either figure it out on your own or pastebin the last couple pages of crap and see if anyone recognizes the error |
| 16:45.08 | dtx | OK, since there are obviously a lot of devs in here, what does glib do essentially? |
| 16:45.19 | Skuff_ | ok, thank u very much |
| 16:45.19 | dtx | I never understood the point |
| 16:45.22 | Aria | glib is a utility library. |
| 16:45.36 | dtx | Just general |
| 16:45.39 | Aria | It has functions for linked lists, memory allocation, object orientation in C, event signalling |
| 16:45.44 | Kensan | Aria: might be of interest: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/faq.html#replace-dbus |
| 16:45.48 | Aria | Wrappers over some posix stuff for win32, too. |
| 16:45.50 | galexande | dtx, the gtk people started out a little bit insane about frameworks, because they're inventing some OOP crap in C |
| 16:45.50 | guillaum1 | I'm using MokoMakefile and I put some custom binaries in build/tmp/rootfs/. How to build a new local image for qemu ? |
| 16:46.10 | galexande | dtx, so they used glib to encourage all gtk-derived things to use common data formats and so on |
| 16:46.17 | galexande | data formats like link lists, not files |
| 16:46.26 | dtx | yeah |
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| 16:46.31 | Aria | Kensan: Sounds right |
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| 16:46.44 | dtx | So it is essentially the standard c++ libs for C |
| 16:46.59 | mdt | dtx, no, much, much simpler |
| 16:46.59 | Aria | Kinda but not so deep. |
| 16:47.03 | galexande | dtx, well it's not quite as offensive as STL, but that's the idea :) |
| 16:47.06 | Aria | Hehe. yeah. |
| 16:47.10 | Aria | It's actually really well built |
| 16:47.22 | Aria | They've managed binary compatibility with very few breaks over the years. |
| 16:47.24 | galexande | yeah i think some aspects are overkill but working with gtk stuff has always been pleasant |
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| 16:47.26 | Aria | Lots of well-managed migrations |
| 16:47.33 | Kensan | Aria: I was curious because Upstart seems like a perfect fit on the service level and it is very likely to be integrated into Openmoko. |
| 16:47.39 | Aria | Kensan: Yeah. |
| 16:47.40 | galexande | gtk1 to gtk2 was the only painful step in my experience |
| 16:47.44 | galexande | and that was mostly font selection |
| 16:48.35 | Aria | Yeah. |
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| 16:48.46 | Aria | And the fact that it was a re-architecting of a huge part of the system |
| 16:48.49 | Aria | It was a really good move too. |
| 16:49.07 | Aria | They picked a really good time to break stuff. Made life hell for a while, but it worked out. |
| 16:49.13 | dtx | cool |
| 16:49.25 | galexande | i disagree entirely, i've only let familiar to an auto-upgrade once in my life |
| 16:49.27 | Skuff_ | yeah, now its compiling again :) |
| 16:49.38 | galexande | and it was over the span of gtk1 to gtkk2, and my palmtop has not been the same since :) |
| 16:49.54 | galexande | if they'd waited maybe two months to make that switch, i never would have dealt with it |
| 16:50.32 | dtx | So DBUS provides some real opportunities for IoC type stuff, I guess. |
| 16:50.39 | Aria | Yeah, it does. |
| 16:50.44 | Aria | On a process-by-process level mostly. |
| 16:50.53 | dtx | hmmm |
| 16:51.01 | dtx | Is the IPC mechanism fast? |
| 16:51.27 | Aria | Decently so, if you use it as intended. |
| 16:51.40 | Aria | I wouldn't want to do a hundred ops per second. |
| 16:52.02 | woglinde | ipc is fast |
| 16:52.04 | Aria | But it's fast enough for relaying user-triggered application level events. |
| 16:52.07 | dtx | I'm assuming serialization is the bottleneck or does it use shared memory? |
| 16:52.13 | Aria | Serialization is the bottleneck. |
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| 16:52.20 | Aria | It's stream-socket based, not SHM |
| 16:52.33 | dtx | hmmm |
| 16:52.48 | ScaredyCat | how can we implement a 'hold' function... so that screen taps are ignored? |
| 16:53.06 | mmazur | Block signals from screen? |
| 16:53.08 | ScaredyCat | with no hard buttons |
| 16:53.10 | mmazur | As in mask. |
| 16:53.31 | dtx | Can you lock the mouse to an invisible window |
| 16:53.36 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but then you still have an area that cna unlock it |
| 16:53.38 | galexande | is there something that performs the stateful taskks of OS X's configd, maybe a client to dbus? |
| 16:54.00 | Aria | Just throw up a tap-sequence lock screen covering everything |
| 16:54.04 | Aria | Have to tap a specific pattern to unhold |
| 16:54.13 | Aria | What's configd do? |
| 16:54.40 | dtx | Is it like gconf? |
| 16:55.07 | galexande | when state changes in os x, it notifies configd which updates internal state tables, and configd has a number of clients connected to it which are alerted and perform actions based on the current state |
| 16:55.15 | Aria | (for the record, gconfd has been ported to dbus, there's a version that uses it instead of corba to communicate with clients) |
| 16:55.28 | Aria | galexande: That's gconfd in gnome |
| 16:55.30 | woglinde | corba *brrrkks* |
| 16:55.36 | galexande | by state i mean things like location=home vs location=work |
| 16:55.46 | galexande | or environment=loud vs environment=quiet |
| 16:56.09 | Aria | That's possible |
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| 16:59.22 | dtx | Man this is making me want to look into upstart now |
| 16:59.27 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 16:59.45 | SpeedEvil | On the voice transforming filter options, we have to have a special default for Sep 19th. |
| 16:59.56 | SpeedEvil | International Talk Like a Pirate day. |
| 17:00.04 | ScaredyCat | arrrrrrr |
| 17:00.14 | SpeedEvil | With buttons for parrot noises. |
| 17:00.41 | dtx | and swash buckling sounds |
| 17:03.31 | radiorental | Heyup Speedevil, I noticed your name on some of the early wiki edits on the finger scrolling widget.... |
| 17:03.47 | SpeedEvil | radiorental: I am not responsible for it! |
| 17:03.55 | SpeedEvil | I did nothing! |
| 17:03.58 | SpeedEvil | Well - I think I commented a bit. |
| 17:04.03 | radiorental | dam.. was hoping to beat someone up (o; |
| 17:04.15 | radiorental | is there much scope to change the design? |
| 17:04.34 | SpeedEvil | What changes were you thinking of? |
| 17:04.36 | radiorental | a few of us user interface designers have been talking backchannel |
| 17:05.05 | radiorental | is there any scope to make it similar to the iphone flick? |
| 17:05.12 | ScaredyCat | nothing is set in stone at all... if you want to do it differently you can :) |
| 17:05.18 | radiorental | an invisible four-way scoller |
| 17:05.24 | SpeedEvil | Basically. |
| 17:05.30 | radiorental | but its a core app no? |
| 17:05.42 | SpeedEvil | If you fork the entire OS, and it's good, then there is a good chance that it will get adopted. |
| 17:05.54 | SpeedEvil | Even if you change core stuff. |
| 17:06.02 | radiorental | ahh.. but I'm a mere ui designer, not a coder |
| 17:06.13 | galexande | radio, i really want to see a UI standard come out that i can stand behind, so i am excited to see UI designers producing wiki pages |
| 17:06.23 | ScaredyCat | why would you have to fork the entire os to implement a new widget? |
| 17:06.27 | BryceLeo | galexande: *amen* |
| 17:06.30 | radiorental | we prefer to work with coders and inject the 'users perspective' |
| 17:06.40 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: that was an extreme example. |
| 17:06.46 | ScaredyCat | very. |
| 17:07.12 | galexande | radio, someone needs to inject the users perspectivev into the wiki design documents that coders have thrown together |
| 17:07.17 | radiorental | galex: thats good to hear, I'm working on it as fast as I can before too much app development starts |
| 17:07.22 | mmazur | radiorental, ah, so you're into herding cats, ay? :) |
| 17:07.26 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I'd like the option of the wheel staying htere. |
| 17:07.34 | ScaredyCat | surely all they're talking about is a new widget type that uses flicks to scroll |
| 17:07.46 | SpeedEvil | So that you can implement various glyph systems on the screen |
| 17:07.48 | galexande | right now i am not fond of anything i've seen in terms of openmoko UI design, and if that doesn't change then i'm gonna go totally lone wolf |
| 17:08.10 | SpeedEvil | or do you just mean a box that you drag off in various directions to do stuff? |
| 17:08.15 | galexande | radio, a totally new scrollable list widget for all applications is not out of the question |
| 17:08.21 | radiorental | speedevil: the thing that has ui designers concerned is two different gestures methods for the finger apps and the stylus apps |
| 17:08.23 | galexande | radio, or pervasive pie menues |
| 17:08.31 | Kensan | radiorental: Explaining your ideas in a wiki-page, possibly with mock-ups, and a posting to the mailing list would be a good start. |
| 17:08.31 | BryceLeo | galexande: you don't like the thumbscrool and button? |
| 17:08.35 | ewanm89_laptop | I prefer someone else to do the UI design for my apps. |
| 17:08.52 | galexande | bryce, i don't see why those need to take up screen real estate, when the list that they are acting on is already on the screen |
| 17:09.12 | galexande | surely we can use pie menus or gestures inside the list widget to scroll around the list? |
| 17:09.18 | galexande | then we can even display more than one list on the screen (not that i like this idea) |
| 17:09.23 | radiorental | kensan: I'm on it, jsut touching base with peopel to find out what is possible |
| 17:09.46 | radiorental | I dont want to storm on to the project and mod the wiki without checking in with people |
| 17:09.46 | BryceLeo | galexande: i guess i can see what yo yumean but i'm sick of everyone injecting iPhone crap everywhere |
| 17:09.58 | BryceLeo | galexande: i'll take pie menus |
| 17:10.11 | ScaredyCat | radiorental: the wiki is there so that you *can* do that |
| 17:10.21 | Kensan | radiorental: that's the beauty of it: if your ideas are great and garner enough support they might be included into the core software stack. |
| 17:10.36 | galexande | bryce, yeah, though i think to some extent certain iphoneisms are unavoidable when you eschew buttons and stylii |
| 17:10.36 | SpeedEvil | I would suggest not to do massive wiki changes. |
| 17:10.40 | ewanm89_laptop | radiorental: We can all mod the wiki and inject our own ideas. |
| 17:10.45 | galexande | because clicking on a tiny scrollbar is just unacceptable after that |
| 17:10.46 | happycube | anarchy! |
| 17:10.57 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil: additions and extra ideas aren't an issue... |
| 17:10.59 | galexande | if you're a UI designer, i highly recommend massive wiki changes |
| 17:11.06 | Kensan | radiorental: it's about gaining momentum and convincing people by presenting your ideas. Even if you don't convince the core team, maybe you convince enough developers to code an alternative, etc. |
| 17:11.09 | ScaredyCat | deleteing lots of other peoples ideas, yes |
| 17:11.19 | radiorental | just getting any idea of how people feel about ui designers, no point in us changing the wiki and causing no work to happen |
| 17:11.28 | galexande | what's on the wiki for most of the core apps was written long enough ago that the original designer is hopefully not even invested in it anymo,re :) |
| 17:11.40 | BryceLeo | radiorental: how long have you been doing ui design what projects have you done? |
| 17:11.52 | radiorental | thank you all - I'm drawing up a proposal to create a unified scrolling gesture that will work across all apps |
| 17:11.54 | SpeedEvil | However, changing large parts of the wiki, is a little counterproductive. I'd suggest several mockup pages with pointers from the main pages. |
| 17:12.28 | Kensan | radiorental: I see your point, but jotting down your ideas to make them accessible to others is always a good idea :) Maybe you would make a seperate page and link to it. |
| 17:12.28 | radiorental | bryceleo: www.pauric.net (12 years, with some opensource stuff, most notibly a portable oscilloscope) |
| 17:12.47 | galexande | ugh i hope you didn't design the buttons on my portable scope :) |
| 17:12.50 | BryceLeo | radiorental: oh jeez dude why didn't you just say that that was you! |
| 17:12.57 | BryceLeo | radiorental: i've been following you on the app list for a while |
| 17:13.13 | BryceLeo | radiorental: you've got my blessing to go through and change it for what little my blessing matters |
| 17:13.50 | radiorental | bryceLeo: thanks! |
| 17:14.32 | Kensan | radiorental: IMHO since almost everyone is not satisfied how the UI looks/works right now every new concept will draw attention. |
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| 17:14.45 | ewanm89_laptop | unified scrolling sounds good. |
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| 17:15.04 | SpeedEvil | My point is basically - the UI at the moment is at least sort-of-consistent. If you are going to do massive changes then you need to have it seperate from the old one, so that people who prefer the old one can continue documenting it. |
| 17:15.14 | radiorental | Speedevil: I'm all about mockups, pictures speak a 1000 words. Again, just checking in with folks about the scope of change available. Thank you all! |
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| 17:15.55 | galexande | speed, the UI at the moment is completely wrong |
| 17:16.10 | ewanm89_laptop | radiorental: Come up with an idea, and some of us will see if we can then code it into reality. |
| 17:16.29 | galexande | i don't mean to offend whoever drew it up, but everything i've read suggests that everyone who has touched the UI thinks that it will have a 6" 640x480 screen with a stylus |
| 17:16.29 | SpeedEvil | galexande: I'm not disagreeing. |
| 17:16.30 | BryceLeo | galexande: if you jump ship where are you jumping to? |
| 17:16.40 | radiorental | Speedevil: I dont want to inflict massive changes, just introduce a consistent scroll gesture. I really dislike the loss of one-hand operation when using apps just as 'contacts' |
| 17:16.50 | ewanm89_laptop | Just remember some of us aren't adverse to a CLI. |
| 17:16.51 | BryceLeo | galexande: very very true |
| 17:16.52 | galexande | bryce, if i have to then i'll make a dialer app that looks like http://galexander.org/gglcars/ :) |
| 17:17.33 | BryceLeo | hahahahaha that's awesome very nice |
| 17:17.34 | SpeedEvil | galexande: For example, I made the somewhat contraversial point on the wiki that we should use the screen optimally. Even if that meant initially locking out red-green colourblind people. |
| 17:17.43 | radiorental | its all about evolution, not revolution |
| 17:17.57 | SpeedEvil | galexande: Treating the screen as if it was a desktop app is insane. |
| 17:18.05 | happycube | it's tiiiiny |
| 17:18.16 | happycube | so everything has to be 'big' if viewing it at 480x640 on a desktop |
| 17:18.25 | happycube | or heck, an asus eee |
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| 17:19.27 | galexande | well red/green is a dumb contrast anyways, those apps are unusable even on big screens by colorseeers. |
| 17:19.35 | galexande | it should be white/black or a totally different image |
| 17:19.46 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - it was more a general point. |
| 17:19.57 | Elrond | http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/5/57/Contacts-main-double-height.png |
| 17:19.58 | SpeedEvil | The screen should be used as fully as possible. |
| 17:20.16 | Elrond | (not by me. But I found it. It's another scrolling idea) |
| 17:20.16 | Aria | Yes. But. Those design constraints actually encourage better design. |
| 17:20.17 | happycube | i'm thinking high contrast but still matching the case of your particular moko |
| 17:20.35 | happycube | so there'd have to be color schemes and a selection for silver/black and orange/white moko |
| 17:20.48 | radiorental | Elrond: thats really cool, I have not seen it before, apologies! |
| 17:21.09 | radiorental | what doc is it located in? |
| 17:21.48 | ScaredyCat | isn't gtk a series of messages passing about? |
| 17:21.54 | galexande | ahhahaha happycube |
| 17:22.09 | ScaredyCat | can't you just inject a 'scroll up' into the message stream? |
| 17:22.15 | ScaredyCat | from a flick. |
| 17:22.17 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 17:22.30 | galexande | scaredy, well yeah you could even be like xstroke and recognize the gesture and send an uparrow keyboard click |
| 17:22.50 | koen|train | SpeedEvil, Elrond: wait a few days for the contacts and today rewrite to get committed |
| 17:22.54 | galexande | but if it is integrated into the GtkList (or whatever) widget then it will be more responsive and we can do things like exponential acceleration or so |
| 17:22.58 | koen|train | they start discussing the GUI |
| 17:23.05 | happycube | cool |
| 17:23.11 | koen|train | no point talking about something that will be gone soon |
| 17:23.21 | koen|train | s/they/then/ |
| 17:23.40 | radiorental | Can acceleration be detected with this touch sensitive screen - thats news |
| 17:23.46 | galexande | koen, does contacts really have a split-screen? |
| 17:24.26 | galexande | radio, well it gives coordinates fairly frequently, and you can do whatever you want with the delta between coordinates |
| 17:24.36 | SpeedEvil | radiorental: no. |
| 17:24.47 | radiorental | I didnt think so |
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| 17:25.29 | radiorental | touch sensitive is too imprecise to replicate the sophisticated gestures found on the iphone |
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| 17:26.10 | Elrond | radiorental - No document. I just found it by accident while lookig at Specialpages. |
| 17:26.16 | galexande | radio, i don't know what you mean by that, but for single-touch, the touch screen is perfectly capable of anything |
| 17:26.18 | radiorental | a simple four-way scroll is a do-able gesture. I've already updated the application wiki with a matrix for the tap, double tap, tap-hold inputs |
| 17:26.19 | Elrond | koen|train - Ahh. Nice to hear, that something is happening there. |
| 17:26.34 | galexande | radio, palm graffiti works on the same technology as the neo |
| 17:26.47 | galexande | which isa bout as sophisticated as you can get with singletouch |
| 17:27.08 | radiorental | there is no accelleration on the palm Galexande |
| 17:27.08 | koen|train | Elrond: we had a side to side comparison at guadec |
| 17:27.13 | ScaredyCat | palm stuff works fine |
| 17:27.14 | BryceLeo | there might be a capacative touchscreen on the way for the openmoko, decent resolution too |
| 17:27.17 | koen|train | everyone found the rewrite a lot better |
| 17:27.24 | galexande | radio, do you even know what you mean by acceleration? |
| 17:27.26 | radiorental | that not to say it isnt do-able, it jsut doesnt work very cleanly |
| 17:27.58 | don-o | what kind of touchscreen does it have now? |
| 17:28.00 | Elrond | koen|train - Anything to see from that comparison currently? |
| 17:28.02 | galexande | don-o, resistive |
| 17:28.21 | koen|train | Elrond: I haven't seen screenshots of it yet |
| 17:28.32 | radiorental | acceleration is the increase in the speed of a finger across the surface coressponding in an increase in the speed of a scrolling in the app |
| 17:28.36 | SpeedEvil | radiorental: The screen works just fine for detecting a touch at x,y. And it reports these often. |
| 17:28.37 | koen|train | but it's hard to make inertial scrolling show in a png :) |
| 17:28.46 | galexande | radio, that works fine with the touch screen in a palm |
| 17:28.48 | SpeedEvil | radiorental: you can do whatever you want with this. |
| 17:28.53 | SpeedEvil | gif! |
| 17:28.54 | Elrond | koen|train - And you didn't take your camera and shot everything quickly before people ran away? ;o) |
| 17:29.03 | galexande | koen, oh, nice, are you making widgets with this scrolling technique or is it just in the contacts app? |
| 17:29.09 | radiorental | can you give an app as an example Galexande? |
| 17:29.12 | koen|train | the today rewrite senses acceleration and adjust the inertial scrolling based on that |
| 17:29.17 | galexande | radio, software = no :) |
| 17:29.34 | galexande | radio, but if it's possible in singletouch on the iphone, the hardware on the neo is 100% equally capable |
| 17:29.48 | ScaredyCat | koen|train: sounds good |
| 17:30.52 | radiorental | well, not exactly. pressure sensitive screens require a little force, this added friction reduces the intuitivness of a 'flick' |
| 17:31.18 | radiorental | the capacitive iPhone interface does not require pressure, therefor less friction |
| 17:31.18 | SpeedEvil | radiorental: I've never found that with drawing on a touchscreen. |
| 17:31.27 | BryceLeo | capacative screens are still possible, clearpad based solutions are looking reasonably priced compared to standard resistive |
| 17:31.56 | SpeedEvil | With nice diamond-coated glass. |
| 17:31.59 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@CPE0014bf4ad3e5-CM000a7363f3b6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:32.03 | galexande | radio, yes, that's true |
| 17:32.15 | galexande | it will feel a lot different under your fingers because it's such a different kind of surface. |
| 17:32.25 | *** join/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=exxon@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 17:32.28 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Does that work reasonably? |
| 17:32.37 | radiorental | so, yes its possible. No, in my opinion, should it be a fundamental gesture.. nto until the hardware catches up |
| 17:32.41 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: In principle. |
| 17:32.55 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: SAW touchscreen displays work very well. |
| 17:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: diamond coated glass is _mass_ produced for produce barcode scanner windows. |
| 17:33.31 | SpeedEvil | Nothing to say why you couldn't use some to make a PDA. |
| 17:33.45 | Elrond | Ahhh. |
| 17:33.45 | radiorental | price? |
| 17:33.58 | Elrond | That would finally solve the scratches-on-display problem :-) |
| 17:34.09 | galexande | the phone that dulls your keys! |
| 17:34.15 | SpeedEvil | IIRC - $50 in ones for a PDA-sized bit of glass |
| 17:34.35 | SpeedEvil | These are the scanner windows that have tins thrown over them all day. |
| 17:34.41 | SpeedEvil | So they are pretty robust. |
| 17:35.07 | juri_ | personally, i like the clamshell design of the nokia 770. if i had my choice, i'd have that on my openmoko. |
| 17:35.36 | juri_ | especially with the magnet that makes the unit go to sleep. |
| 17:35.47 | *** join/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.97) |
| 17:35.50 | koen|train | the nokia 770 isn't a clamshell |
| 17:35.55 | koen|train | it's a tablet |
| 17:36.21 | juri_ | it has an aluminum shell you slide over the unit. |
| 17:36.21 | koen|train | that is not a clamshell |
| 17:36.21 | juri_ | whats the term for that? |
| 17:36.23 | koen|train | a clamm has a pivot |
| 17:36.29 | koen|train | it has a sliding cover |
| 17:36.40 | koen|train | (which rocks, btw, I wish the n800 had it) |
| 17:38.20 | galexande | i just can't wait to see how small it is |
| 17:38.24 | Jeff_ | i want my m t vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv! |
| 17:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko r4kY (n=Ladder_@ws42127.studby.hig.no) |
| 17:39.42 | Jeff_ | i was considering getting the developer package... would it be better to wait until october? |
| 17:39.50 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: Can I has my openmoko? |
| 17:39.51 | Jeff_ | (when it is a little more robust...) |
| 17:40.02 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: can I has my openmoko? |
| 17:40.07 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: can I has openmoko? |
| 17:40.07 | Jeff_ | or just jump in the deep end and start coding away? |
| 17:40.14 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: can i has openmoko? |
| 17:40.19 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: can i has openmoko |
| 17:40.23 | BryceLeo | Jeff_: i'd just jump the deepend |
| 17:40.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image]] [[Wish_List]] [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Translation]] |
| 17:40.36 | Jeff_ | do you have one bryce? |
| 17:40.42 | ewanm89_laptop | I have jumped in. |
| 17:41.10 | Jeff_ | i mean how functional is it? :-) Nice- I am a software engineer myself i just didn't know how low-level the coding is |
| 17:41.15 | ewanm89_laptop | :( :( :( :( |
| 17:41.18 | Jeff_ | id rather not work on the kernel i think i woulc cry |
| 17:41.26 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: why can't you order a neo?? |
| 17:41.27 | nbd | kernel is much more fun than user space |
| 17:41.30 | ewanm89_laptop | Jeff_: Don't then. |
| 17:41.34 | Jeff_ | haha |
| 17:41.48 | nbd | i hate to write stuff in c in user space |
| 17:41.52 | nbd | but in kernel space it's fun |
| 17:42.03 | BryceLeo | you can still do apps on the neo, and get a feel for real world how they act and how you'll need to modify graphics for that high dpi screen |
| 17:42.17 | Jeff_ | having never developed something like a kernel i wouldn't be much help there probably |
| 17:42.26 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: No credit card, bank account doesn't do direct debit and my parents won't do international orders :( :( :( :( :( :( |
| 17:42.34 | SpeedEvil | Make a 120*160 window, and you get a basic idea for most current displays. |
| 17:42.47 | Jeff_ | whats the size on the neo |
| 17:42.55 | ewanm89_laptop | Jeff_: Leave the kernel for kernel devs then. |
| 17:43.00 | koen|train | 4x5cm or so |
| 17:43.19 | SpeedEvil | IMO, 120*160 is probably aroung the right res to develop to on the desktop |
| 17:43.25 | *** part/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.97) |
| 17:43.28 | SpeedEvil | as that gives about the right size of window on most displays. |
| 17:44.30 | Jeff_ | whats the basic os like? is it like really #$@# Damn Small Linux? |
| 17:44.44 | SpeedEvil | It's basically desktop. |
| 17:44.53 | loufoque | it's GNOME |
| 17:45.06 | Jeff_ | pared down i would imagine! |
| 17:45.09 | SpeedEvil | Sort-of-like DSL crossed with a desktop X install. |
| 17:45.17 | SpeedEvil | And it's GTK. |
| 17:45.24 | Aria | Not GNOME. GPE-ish, GTK-based, matchbox window manager. |
| 17:45.33 | Aria | Stacking fullscreen windows |
| 17:45.45 | Jeff_ | so can you develop a GTK app and then just move it over ono the phone? |
| 17:46.00 | SpeedEvil | Jeff: yes |
| 17:46.18 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=familia@201.244.109.50) |
| 17:46.31 | Jeff_ | I signed up on the open moko project website but there doesn't seem to really be an intuitave place to get started. do you have any recommendations? |
| 17:46.37 | SpeedEvil | Just develop so that your program works in a 120*160 window on the desktop. |
| 17:46.42 | SpeedEvil | And it'll mostly be fine. |
| 17:46.56 | Jeff_ | nice. |
| 17:47.13 | Jeff_ | what networks does the (will the...) phone work on? can i just slap my SIM card into it and carry on? |
| 17:47.14 | galexande | the one exception is that small fonts on the neo will be more readable than small fonts in a 120x160 window |
| 17:47.15 | SpeedEvil | (120*160 is because the efective resolution of the display by most users at normal distances will be around that) |
| 17:47.24 | galexande | jeff, anything gsm |
| 17:47.25 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 17:47.30 | galexande | except tanzania |
| 17:47.39 | SpeedEvil | But for normal stuff you don't want small fonts. |
| 17:47.51 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 17:47.53 | Jeff_ | right. |
| 17:47.58 | SpeedEvil | IMO - almost enver, except for apps where you may hold the phone at 20cm. |
| 17:47.59 | kiney | why not tanzania? |
| 17:48.02 | dtx | galexande: so I take it you don't ever plan on having kids? |
| 17:48.05 | galexande | sure but suppose you are displaying 10 lines of text at 16 pixels high on the PC, that won't look as good as 10 lines of text at 64 pixels high on the neo |
| 17:48.30 | dtx | judging by your site |
| 17:48.31 | galexande | kiney, because they use gsm400 (iirc), while everyone else uses one of the quaband frequencies |
| 17:48.32 | SpeedEvil | galexande: Consider when you're outside and looking at the app in the sun. |
| 17:48.33 | galexande | dtx, oh heh |
| 17:48.38 | SpeedEvil | galexande: it'll look better. |
| 17:48.47 | galexande | dtx, well i don't care too much about the world so i might have kids |
| 17:48.47 | SpeedEvil | (at times) |
| 17:49.01 | galexande | but i won't have any illusion about it being an act of creation instead of an act of destruction :) |
| 17:49.05 | Jeff_ | haha |
| 17:49.10 | kiney | hmm, my siemens me45 worked fine in tanzania... and I don't think it supports that frequency? |
| 17:49.22 | Aria | Should work with any GSM carrier |
| 17:49.29 | *** part/#openmoko dottedmag (n=dottedma@frontier.dottedmag.net) |
| 17:49.49 | dtx | genocidal initiation? |
| 17:50.18 | dtx | or cataclysmic catalyst I suppose. |
| 17:50.20 | galexande | hahaha kiney *shrug* all i know is http://en.wikipedia.org=/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands says: There is currently one GSM-400 network in Tanzania |
| 17:50.20 | galexande | [edit] |
| 17:50.39 | galexande | and GSM-400 is the only one unsupported. |
| 17:51.18 | kiney | gelaxande: thank's for the information... I will read about that |
| 17:52.18 | woglinde | re |
| 17:52.33 | woglinde | lol |
| 17:52.35 | woglinde | africa |
| 17:54.56 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@pD9E8632E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:55.05 | *** join/#openmoko Qwell[] (i=qwell@pdpc/sponsor/digium/Qwell) |
| 17:56.40 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-101-247.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:59.06 | kiney | according to http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_tz.shtml there are more gsm-networks in tanzania than the 400mhz one |
| 18:01.57 | *** join/#openmoko mwester (n=nmwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 18:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:05.45 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: you can't get a student checking account? |
| 18:08.11 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: what country are you in? |
| 18:08.41 | SpeedEvil | I'm guessing somewhere with internet. |
| 18:08.57 | SpeedEvil | UK even. |
| 18:09.07 | SpeedEvil | As indicated by the btcentralplus.com address. |
| 18:09.58 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@74-140-187-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 18:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host99-122-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:10.38 | BryceLeo | SpeedEvil: relatively safe bet, unless he's using a proxy |
| 18:10.46 | aloril | (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: WebKit/Gtk http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/webkitgtk.html |
| 18:11.54 | galexande | wow, i'd love to know why mickey is bad-mouthing gtk :) |
| 18:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko vallor (n=Rock@frenzy.wba.ponzo.net) |
| 18:13.18 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@212.2.21.2) |
| 18:13.29 | vallor | {{{{ openmoko }}}}} :) :) -- my order is in, hope it ships soon :) |
| 18:14.09 | vallor | so -- anyone come up with a super-small usb webcam to use with the gadget? |
| 18:14.10 | aloril | vallor: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:14.16 | ScaredyCat | roflmao - don't count on it vallor |
| 18:14.21 | SpeedEvil | vallor: You've just ordered? |
| 18:14.29 | vallor | SpeedEvil: yes, a couple days ago |
| 18:14.37 | SpeedEvil | vallor: Also - super-small USB powered hub. |
| 18:14.51 | vallor | oh hmm |
| 18:14.56 | SpeedEvil | vallor: Unfortunately, up to a months delay looks likely. |
| 18:14.58 | BryceLeo | i want the damn flux capacitor first |
| 18:15.08 | SpeedEvil | vallor: most of the first batch has sold. |
| 18:15.16 | SpeedEvil | s/most/probably all/ |
| 18:15.29 | SpeedEvil | And there has been no news on another batch being started. |
| 18:15.31 | vallor | dang -- I had an order in on the 9th, but it seems to have been lost in the shuffle |
| 18:15.42 | vallor | so I re-ordered |
| 18:15.54 | SpeedEvil | Which does not of course mean that there isn't a batch in progress now. |
| 18:16.17 | ScaredyCat | there's basically just no news period |
| 18:16.30 | vallor | would I need to have a usb hub just to plug in the camera? |
| 18:16.43 | SpeedEvil | No power. |
| 18:16.50 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 18:17.01 | vallor | ah, dang |
| 18:17.02 | vallor | k |
| 18:17.18 | ScaredyCat | which is auto replying to the list sending his autoreply |
| 18:18.19 | galexande | vallor, if you're lucky, your camera might not need power |
| 18:18.51 | ozarka | Is there any word on how many units were in the first batch? |
| 18:19.39 | vallor | or maybe I can find a self-powered cam (w/battery) |
| 18:19.41 | ozarka | One person on the mailing list mentioned that their cred card was charged? Anyone else? |
| 18:20.39 | galexande | so far it's just jason1 i think |
| 18:20.50 | ScaredyCat | 4 people appear to have |
| 18:20.56 | galexande | !!! |
| 18:20.59 | galexande | i'm only #21!! |
| 18:21.09 | koen|train | credit card? |
| 18:21.15 | galexande | vallor, oh, yeah, that's what i meant :) |
| 18:21.15 | koen|train | people pay to get a neo? |
| 18:21.20 | *** join/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:21.22 | SpeedEvil | vallor: probably won't work. |
| 18:21.27 | ScaredyCat | galexande: I did say they weren't in order |
| 18:21.34 | ScaredyCat | koen|train: no.. |
| 18:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 18:21.36 | galexande | scaredy, fooey |
| 18:21.41 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 18:21.42 | SpeedEvil | vallor: most USB devices use the 5V supply to sense a host, and wake up and listen for it. |
| 18:21.49 | ScaredyCat | we've tried to pay and get a neo, neither has worked |
| 18:21.54 | SpeedEvil | vallor: so even powered devices won't work. |
| 18:22.02 | SpeedEvil | (tested with a printer, a scanner, and a hub) |
| 18:22.08 | galexande | speed, bummer |
| 18:22.16 | ozarka | I'm #922, so at 4 per week that comes to... I'm gonna need a calculator. |
| 18:22.20 | vallor | hmm, I wonder if I can get battery power onto the usb bus |
| 18:22.24 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 18:22.25 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.94) |
| 18:22.34 | galexande | vallor, it's not hard as soldering iron hacks go |
| 18:22.38 | SpeedEvil | vallor: simple cable. |
| 18:22.40 | BryceLeo | there's a battery powered usb hub out |
| 18:22.45 | BryceLeo | cyberpower makes it |
| 18:23.05 | BryceLeo | google is your fried |
| 18:23.11 | vallor | !! schweet! |
| 18:23.11 | vallor | tu |
| 18:23.12 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 18:23.15 | BryceLeo | just search battery powered usb hub |
| 18:23.16 | SpeedEvil | fried what? |
| 18:23.24 | ScaredyCat | eggs |
| 18:23.37 | BryceLeo | sausage |
| 18:23.39 | BryceLeo | i thought that was obvious |
| 18:23.46 | BryceLeo | i'll have to be more specific next time |
| 18:28.35 | ynezz | ozarka #922? I thought that the numbers began about #1800... |
| 18:29.02 | galexande | ynezz, he's probably got ticket #2722 |
| 18:29.23 | vallor | how do you see what ticket you got? |
| 18:29.28 | codyl | has anyone received their neo yet..? |
| 18:29.35 | vallor | oh in the email |
| 18:29.52 | ozarka | Right, conf# 27xx. |
| 18:30.06 | ynezz | ah |
| 18:31.17 | vallor | 3930 here |
| 18:31.36 | ynezz | high one :) |
| 18:31.43 | ynezz | ~p1 |
| 18:31.49 | ynezz | ~p1_owners |
| 18:32.09 | vallor | ya -- the web site was getting slashdotted when I did my first order, seems they dropped it on the floor :( |
| 18:32.11 | orospakr | #3255 here. :) |
| 18:32.18 | orospakr | and no, my card hasn't been charged :P |
| 18:32.23 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 18:33.08 | ynezz | vallor: feel free to add yourself to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 18:33.19 | ynezz | helps others track highest ticket number :) |
| 18:33.21 | ScaredyCat | ~p1 owners |
| 18:33.21 | mokobot | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 18:33.23 | vallor | okay :) |
| 18:33.49 | ynezz | ~group orders |
| 18:33.50 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: p1 is <reply> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 18:33.51 | mokobot | okay, ScaredyCat |
| 18:35.20 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:37.20 | vallor | $ zgrep -li 'YES_I_DO' (everything) => nothing! :( |
| 18:37.46 | vallor | I was hoping they had sent me one that I could reply to for the first order :\ |
| 18:38.57 | *** join/#openmoko fiveplusone (n=six@dyn-160-39-254-215.dyn.columbia.edu) |
| 18:40.05 | galexande | i wonder what is special about jason1/cm/eric |
| 18:40.37 | galexande | i guess eric is the only one out of order |
| 18:40.41 | ynezz | vallor: they're sending this email by hand probably and since Laforge(mailman in fic) has some crazy flu, you won't get any response until he's cured I think :) |
| 18:41.19 | vallor | oh hmmm! |
| 18:41.39 | ScaredyCat | wtf |
| 18:41.54 | ozarka | I don't think they're doing the YES_I_DO emails for new orders. |
| 18:41.58 | mellon | You only get the YES_I_DO thing if you placed a really early order. |
| 18:42.21 | ozarka | Since there's a checkbox on the order screen that says, "I know this phone is not for me" |
| 18:42.24 | vallor | mellon: my first order was on the 9th, right when I heard about it |
| 18:42.33 | vallor | mellon: but I never heard anything back |
| 18:42.37 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but we ordered on the 8th |
| 18:42.40 | mellon | Bummer. |
| 18:43.22 | Jeff_ | although we have never met, my health is in decline and i wish to send my expenses to a worthy person. wire all your money to my account.... :-P |
| 18:43.28 | galexande | mailman just gave me a box!!! |
| 18:43.33 | galexande | ... no neo |
| 18:43.58 | mellon | tragic. |
| 18:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 18:44.10 | mellon | At least you got a box! |
| 18:44.33 | ScaredyCat | is the empty box FCC compliant? |
| 18:44.54 | galexande | no i think it is just ul listed |
| 18:45.04 | ozarka | I ordered on 10 July, got a YES_I_DO email on 13 July. |
| 18:45.20 | ynezz | if it's ROHS compliant, you can use it for suicide |
| 18:46.26 | *** join/#openmoko jadams (n=jadams@rrcs-67-78-224-48.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:46.57 | ynezz | ozarka: so it means you're in first 1000 batch I think |
| 18:47.11 | bkruse | how usable is the neo1973 with given carriers now? (tmobile for example) |
| 18:47.20 | galexande | bkruse, software = no |
| 18:47.25 | bkruse | galexande: gotcha |
| 18:47.37 | bkruse | September software = yes? |
| 18:47.38 | galexande | but the gsm module should talk to t-moblie no problemo :) |
| 18:47.46 | ozarka | So there were 1000 phones in the first batch? |
| 18:47.46 | bkruse | ohrly? |
| 18:47.56 | bkruse | ozarka: i believe so |
| 18:48.06 | bkruse | galexande: think it would operate find as a normal phone now? |
| 18:48.15 | bkruse | or should i get it for development purposes only |
| 18:48.37 | galexande | bkruse, a phone that you have to hook a usb cable up to, ssh into, and then type AT commands into a serial terminal in order to send a text message.. |
| 18:48.50 | bkruse | galexande: great, sounds good |
| 18:48.54 | bkruse | galexande: thank you :] |
| 18:49.17 | phrozen77 | sms as in shitty message service? |
| 18:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko OGrandeDiEnne (n=valerio@host-84-220-26-243.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:49.24 | galexande | phrozen, yeah |
| 18:49.28 | OGrandeDiEnne | re-hello |
| 18:49.44 | phrozen77 | meh, sms's are for weaklngs anyway |
| 18:49.46 | phrozen77 | :P |
| 18:50.17 | phrozen77 | irc email im - in that order pls kthx |
| 18:50.22 | vallor | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners <0--- thar! :) |
| 18:50.40 | *** part/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=exxon@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 18:51.25 | don-o | whoho. 4 payments processed. |
| 18:52.41 | galexande | don-o, are you saying you aren't order #1825 |
| 18:52.58 | vallor | well, I've fought with my Treo 700p for over a year, it's buggier than a mountain lake at sunset |
| 18:53.19 | BryceLeo | vallor: i've got a 650 so i know just what you mean |
| 18:53.19 | galexande | vallor, stop you're making me hungry |
| 18:53.21 | vallor | so this will be very nice :) |
| 18:53.26 | BryceLeo | vallor: all things considored it's a good phone |
| 18:54.02 | don-o | galexande: i havent ordered yet. |
| 18:54.12 | BryceLeo | vallor: i still need to switch to gsm though, it's rediculous what you have to pay to get a new treo from verizon for |
| 18:54.49 | vallor | BryceLeo: I had a 650 before the 700p -- the latter is buggier -- for instance, if you sms another 700p, it sends back a return receipt -- if you are in the sms app when that receipt arrives, the phone locks up |
| 18:54.50 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-171.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 18:55.06 | galexande | hahahaha vallor |
| 18:55.27 | galexande | phones should have a big warning sticker "I contain closed-source software. All bugs are final and non-negotiable" |
| 18:55.29 | BryceLeo | vallor: that's fantastic! that's just what i've always wanted!!! OMG GSHZZZ I WANT ONE!!!! |
| 18:55.46 | BryceLeo | lol, i do like plua though |
| 18:55.49 | BryceLeo | coding on the go |
| 18:55.55 | vallor | galexande: just an example of what Verizon/Palm won't fix (or even acknowledge) -- my gf has a 700p, also, and the same thing happens with her |
| 18:57.28 | vallor | hmm, I wonder if I could create a plua watchdog |
| 18:58.00 | BryceLeo | vallor: how do you mean? i don't think it has any treo specific bindings, just palm bindings |
| 18:58.29 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 19:00.09 | vallor | BryceLeo: not sure what I meant, maybe as simple as setting a timer interrupt to signal the program ever 5 seconds or something (in the background) -- if a program stopped responding (and if it's even possible to determine that), kill it |
| 19:00.39 | vallor | a "spinkiller", if you will... |
| 19:00.42 | ynezz | i would rather reboot device :p |
| 19:03.52 | BryceLeo | vallor: i think that's a pretty good idea, has a decent possibility of success |
| 19:04.01 | BryceLeo | ynezz: you've never owned a treo have you? |
| 19:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
| 19:04.25 | vallor | so... should I jump in with Plua-2.8b8, or just tough it out with 1.1? |
| 19:06.18 | *** join/#openmoko FourDoll1rs (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-171.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 19:06.46 | *** part/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 19:07.34 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: I'm going to get a student acount shortly |
| 19:07.40 | *** join/#openmoko laz0r (n=laz0r@port-87-234-144-134.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 19:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 19:11.08 | vallor | yay, I got it to "hello world" w/out looking at the programming docs (yet)... ;P |
| 19:11.39 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 19:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 19:13.10 | ynezz | join #wxwidgets |
| 19:18.04 | *** join/#openmoko gerundium (n=patrick@dslb-088-064-146-020.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:19.55 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. On user interfaces. |
| 19:19.59 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 19:20.21 | SpeedEvil | You have some plastic trim for a wheel with decorative nuts that can't be turned. |
| 19:20.26 | SpeedEvil | A car wheel. |
| 19:20.29 | BryceLeo | vallor: sor for the long away time, i'm installing vista on a laptop and it was givving me hassles. |
| 19:20.52 | BryceLeo | vallor: definately use 2,8b 1.1 uses plua 4.0 which isn't as nice to code with and if you use format() it crashes your palm |
| 19:21.15 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: well then it's only a matter of time till you get a device! |
| 19:21.15 | SpeedEvil | Do you A) Pick a size that the supplied wrench won't fit. B) pick a size that the included wrench will fit and make them so fragile that they will break off before the user thinks there may be something wrong. |
| 19:21.22 | vallor | snazzy, that's what I dl'ed and installed, 2.8b |
| 19:21.55 | BryceLeo | vallor: haha good choice! |
| 19:22.57 | *** join/#openmoko phrozen77 (n=phrozen7@unaffiliated/phrozen77) |
| 19:23.06 | galexande | speed, am i a honda? |
| 19:23.21 | galexande | with a missing hubcap :) |
| 19:23.29 | SpeedEvil | Twas a Nissan Micra. |
| 19:23.39 | SpeedEvil | Brake caliper was binding. |
| 19:25.53 | BryceLeo | *sigh* i love how visa checks the "com puters" performance, no idea why that space is there, but hey glad they're checking it |
| 19:25.59 | BryceLeo | vista* |
| 19:28.36 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@59.93.95.60) |
| 19:28.41 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd` (n=urk@c-71-61-62-105.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 19:30.51 | vallor | does the channel mind chat about plua ? |
| 19:31.15 | BryceLeo | hahah i don't think the channel is too full |
| 19:31.20 | juri_ | i don't think this channel minds any inteligent chat. i'm actually getting to enjoy it |
| 19:31.59 | BryceLeo | atleast we're opinionated folks here, that keeps things productive |
| 19:32.21 | vallor | well, I tried the example here: http://meusite.uai.com.br/~mmand/plua/pluadoc.htm using pcolor(prgb(255,0,0),prgb(0,0,0)) |
| 19:32.32 | vallor | and it complains when I run it |
| 19:32.47 | BryceLeo | i do belive that that's plua 1.1 syntax |
| 19:33.05 | vallor | [string "text"]:1:attempt to call global 'prgb' (a nil value) |
| 19:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 19:34.16 | vallor | found it |
| 19:34.16 | ynezz | you have to load something(lib, module or so) so prgb() is working I think |
| 19:34.38 | vallor | ynezz: ah, k |
| 19:34.53 | vallor | BryceLeo: there's a pluadoc.zip in the yahoo group files |
| 19:35.03 | BryceLeo | haha i was just beginning to type that |
| 19:35.12 | BryceLeo | because i found my own zip and went to find out where i got it from |
| 19:36.06 | vallor | file:///tmp/pluadoc.htm <-- !!! :) |
| 19:36.14 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492A2CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:37.20 | BryceLeo | lol |
| 19:38.02 | BryceLeo | file:///home/bryce/Downloads/plua-2.0b8/doc/pluadoc.htm <--- for me |
| 19:38.09 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 19:38.53 | OGrandeDiEnne | hey has anyone run openmoko on a HTC phone ? |
| 19:39.05 | OGrandeDiEnne | not (the magician) |
| 19:39.21 | SpeedEvil | Look at Supported Hardware on the wiki |
| 19:40.29 | vallor | ah, it's now "screen.color()" and "screen.rgb()" -- made it work :) |
| 19:41.06 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Mono]] [[Media_Player]] [[File_Save_Dialog]] [[Feed_Reader]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Ottawa]] [[Neo1973_Hardware/ru]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Neo1973_Battery]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Text_Input]] |
| 19:41.39 | OGrandeDiEnne | SpeedEvil: wiki says nothing about HTC, but find openmoko on HTC magician in the net |
| 19:41.48 | BryceLeo | vallor: heh, yeah it's a whole lot more logical now |
| 19:42.20 | ewanm89_laptop | BryceLeo: But I'm already writing code and I probably have to wait 'till the next run. |
| 19:43.22 | BryceLeo | ewanm89_laptop: i'm in your boat sort of, I have over $1000 in vet bills to pay on my horse, so i'm a little in the hole |
| 19:43.51 | vallor | dang BryceLeo! |
| 19:43.57 | vallor | sorry to hear about your horse |
| 19:44.10 | BryceLeo | vallor: me too, but i'm just glad that he's ok |
| 19:44.22 | SpeedEvil | OGrandeDiEnne: Wikify! |
| 19:48.43 | OGrandeDiEnne | ok |
| 19:49.05 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 19:50.14 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 19:52.49 | vallor | OGrandeDiEnne: bless you, sir, I can next-day that sucker and fiddle over the weekend... |
| 19:53.11 | vallor | is it openmoko running with its default winderz, or do you boot Linux on the beastie? |
| 19:54.16 | woglinde | winderz? |
| 19:54.22 | *** join/#openmoko morpheus (n=morpheus@DSL01.83.171.182.41.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 19:54.23 | woglinde | whats that? |
| 19:55.01 | galexande | what you see when you buy an htc from the store and then turn it on |
| 19:56.15 | woglinde | winderz |
| 19:56.16 | vallor | woglinde: winderz -- aka windoze -- aka losedoze -- aka Redmond Virus |
| 19:56.19 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A86511.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:56.31 | OGrandeDiEnne | i just asked, because i would buy an HTC now |
| 19:57.17 | OGrandeDiEnne | but i need openmoko... |
| 19:57.27 | woglinde | lol |
| 19:57.33 | woglinde | openmoko isnt ready yet |
| 19:58.06 | ynezz | don't lie! |
| 19:58.29 | woglinde | use gpe on htc for now |
| 19:58.49 | OGrandeDiEnne | is enaught ready to call or send sms ? |
| 19:59.05 | ynezz | yes, you can send sms |
| 19:59.18 | vallor | There was a farmer had a dog and BINGO was his name-o! |
| 19:59.20 | vallor | http://xda-developers.com/ |
| 20:00.30 | vallor | speaking of treo -- I wonder if my new bluetooth kbd will talk to it :D |
| 20:00.50 | woglinde | vallor depends on the profiles |
| 20:01.06 | *** join/#openmoko moo^ (n=sexycows@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 20:02.48 | BryceLeo | vallor:it's always possible |
| 20:03.25 | woglinde | bryceleo??? when your bt stack dont support the profile you get nothing |
| 20:04.58 | BryceLeo | woglinde: how do you mean |
| 20:05.05 | vallor | well, there's always the possibility of "changing its mind" ... |
| 20:05.08 | vallor | http://grack.com/programming/misc/TreoLinux.html |
| 20:05.37 | woglinde | bryceleo bt defines profiles to communicate btw. devices |
| 20:06.02 | woglinde | there are headphones handsfree and hundres of other profiles |
| 20:06.08 | BryceLeo | right |
| 20:06.16 | *** join/#openmoko phrozen77 (n=phrozen7@unaffiliated/phrozen77) |
| 20:06.21 | daMaestro | grrr... i really wanted my neo for the weekend |
| 20:06.31 | daMaestro | it looks like i am going to have to do actual work again this weekend |
| 20:06.41 | woglinde | and when for example your headphones has only handsfree and your bt stack on the device dont support it |
| 20:06.52 | woglinde | you cant use ther headthings |
| 20:06.55 | BryceLeo | right |
| 20:07.33 | BryceLeo | i thought there were bt keyboards for the treo |
| 20:07.39 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:08.16 | Jeff_ | im back with another question here... does the phone have an integrated wireless 802.11 in it? |
| 20:08.16 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 20:08.18 | woglinde | I didnt say it wont work |
| 20:08.36 | Jeff_ | holy shit you are clairvoyant |
| 20:08.45 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@212.2.21.2) |
| 20:09.12 | BryceLeo | woglinde: ook, that's why i said that it's a possiblility |
| 20:10.07 | *** join/#openmoko Arumnus_ (n=Moray@67-135-71-242.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 20:11.13 | vallor | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5607883840.html <--- there seems to be a lot of chatter about linux on smartphones/pda's this year |
| 20:12.18 | galexande | screw chatter, i want shipments :) |
| 20:12.26 | woglinde | lol |
| 20:12.36 | woglinde | christmas |
| 20:13.48 | vallor | http://www.access-company.com/home.html -- they'll be at linux world |
| 20:13.48 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-152-205-49.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:13.56 | ozarka | This was supposed to be a birthday present for myself... |
| 20:14.03 | phrozen77 | heh |
| 20:14.10 | ozarka | ...but I guess it could be a xmas present instead. |
| 20:14.12 | phrozen77 | the october one could be one for my birthday |
| 20:14.16 | phrozen77 | but... |
| 20:14.19 | phrozen77 | -_- |
| 20:14.29 | vallor | BINGO AGAIN! http://www.access-company.com/products/linux/alp.html |
| 20:14.37 | BryceLeo | i don't really think the the neo should go mass market till january |
| 20:14.40 | BryceLeo | but that's just me |
| 20:14.44 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot_ (n=ewanm89@host86-152-205-49.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:15.02 | SpeedEvil | There have been doubts expressed that it'll be consumer-ready in Oct. |
| 20:15.04 | galexande | i don't think it will until it's ready |
| 20:15.07 | BryceLeo | valor access may verywell have a better polished offering out sooner than anyone else |
| 20:15.37 | ewanm89_laptop | ~lart apt |
| 20:15.37 | apt | changes ewanm89_laptop's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 20:16.01 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: 6*5 |
| 20:16.01 | mokobot | 30 |
| 20:16.40 | galexande | mokobot, protomatter was banned |
| 20:16.58 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 20:17.26 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@pD9E85871.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:18.03 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-12fb7abb949e4c14) |
| 20:18.57 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: lart #openmoko galexande |
| 20:19.16 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: lart galexande |
| 20:19.45 | vallor | Another fully open-source-based phone went on sale on Monday, offering developers the chance to build their own mobile Linux applications. |
| 20:19.52 | vallor | http://news.com.com/Second+open+Linux+phone+goes+on+sale/2100-1039_3-6195496.html?tag=st.ref.goo |
| 20:20.39 | BryceLeo | greenphone isn't fully open |
| 20:20.54 | SpeedEvil | Nor is Neo. |
| 20:20.57 | SpeedEvil | It's more open. |
| 20:21.06 | SpeedEvil | GPS is a binary blob ATM though. |
| 20:21.15 | SpeedEvil | Which is a vastly more important bit. |
| 20:21.18 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 20:21.18 | SpeedEvil | less |
| 20:21.19 | ewanm89_laptop | Plus the greenphone is really expensive. |
| 20:21.36 | BryceLeo | lol but the neo is more open than the greenphone |
| 20:22.18 | ewanm89_laptop | Yes we know the neo is more open, if you wish you could build openmoko without agps (then fully open). |
| 20:22.39 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 20:22.39 | vallor | and here's an overview: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html |
| 20:22.49 | ewanm89_laptop | I can't do that with the greenphone. |
| 20:22.55 | SpeedEvil | Though AIUI - the GPS software doesn't actually implement the 'A'. |
| 20:24.40 | ewanm89_laptop | I suppose the neo is *the* first fully open phone if I can choose to take out the propietary software. |
| 20:27.18 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@user-5441aa30.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 20:27.25 | SpeedEvil | You can do that with many phones. |
| 20:27.34 | SpeedEvil | Most just aren't sold that way. |
| 20:27.42 | mintee | any news on shipping? |
| 20:27.55 | SpeedEvil | No mintee. |
| 20:28.02 | mintee | k |
| 20:29.42 | ozarka | Anyone here tried the greenphone? |
| 20:30.00 | BryceLeo | i got to use one for about a minute |
| 20:30.18 | BryceLeo | it was just a phone |
| 20:30.19 | ozarka | Was it a spectacular, life-chaging minute? |
| 20:30.25 | nbd | they claim it's open, but it contains lots of crappy proprietary components |
| 20:30.27 | BryceLeo | ozarka: not at all |
| 20:31.00 | galexande | i think somebody should make a phone and then not write any software for it |
| 20:31.07 | galexande | and then ship it to me and let me worry about software |
| 20:31.09 | vallor | ''Motorola Rokr E6 (aka E690) -- [Dec. 2006] -- Taiwanese pop superstar Jay Chou launched Motorola's thin, Linux-powered Rokr E6 multimedia phone, at the ITU Telecom World tradeshow in Hong Kong. The fourth-generation music phone is just over half an inch thick (14mm), and features a 2-megapixel camera and business card reader.'' |
| 20:31.39 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: neo-1973 almost fits that perfectly. |
| 20:31.55 | BryceLeo | vallor: yeah it's just about impossible to get the code,this guy wrote up all that he had to go through for it |
| 20:32.04 | BryceLeo | vallor: they want people to do all dev in java |
| 20:32.04 | galexande | ewan, except nobody's shipping it aoseunthaoesnuthaoesunth |
| 20:33.45 | *** join/#openmoko Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info) |
| 20:34.59 | BryceLeo | aose waht?? |
| 20:35.06 | ozarka | Impossible to get the code for the ROKR? |
| 20:35.08 | galexande | !#@%$#$#%$#@!!##$%#@ |
| 20:35.49 | BryceLeo | ozarka: i'm not sure which motorola phone model it was to be exactl |
| 20:35.54 | ozarka | Isn't it here: https://opensource.motorola.com/sf/projects/rokre6 |
| 20:36.21 | ozarka | I don't think you can do anything with it. There doesn't appear to be an SDK or any dev support. |
| 20:36.23 | BryceLeo | hahaha well then that's clearly not the one |
| 20:36.44 | BryceLeo | maybe they learned their lesson, the story i'm thinking of is from probably a year ago when their first one came out |
| 20:38.18 | BryceLeo | http://developer.motorola.com/technologies/linuxos/devguides/ |
| 20:38.24 | BryceLeo | take a look at how they only support java dev |
| 20:38.40 | BryceLeo | nothing for c/c++ or any systems development |
| 20:38.42 | *** join/#openmoko dcorking (n=dcorking@82.153.69.96) |
| 20:39.55 | ozarka | Yeah. Kind of pointless. |
| 20:41.27 | BryceLeo | yeah |
| 20:49.29 | ljp | ya, no native compiled apps for moto linux |
| 20:51.24 | ozarka | ljp, are you really an expert on the greenphone? |
| 20:52.28 | BryceLeo | ozarka: that's an odd question |
| 20:52.32 | ljp | ozarka: yes. what do you want to know |
| 20:52.46 | vallor | brb |
| 20:52.59 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:53.45 | ozarka | Just curious if you liked it. |
| 20:53.55 | ozarka | Fun to use? Fun for developers? |
| 20:55.56 | ynezz | he's troll, he have to say "it's cool, it's fun" :) |
| 20:57.57 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=huhh@3e70c9d6.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:58.09 | ozarka | oh |
| 20:58.17 | CM | ynezz: I wouldn't say troll, he's way to polite. (I did read the blog post) |
| 20:59.16 | CM | ozarka: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/07/09/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch/ and http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/lovely-respond-to-lorn-potter-of.html |
| 20:59.21 | ynezz | ok, I meant Troll as in trolltech :) |
| 20:59.30 | ynezz | no offense |
| 20:59.33 | juri_ | labeling people as trolls is counterproductive. they'll show their colors eventually, reguardless of whats said about them. :) |
| 20:59.37 | ljp | none taken |
| 20:59.45 | ljp | i am a troll |
| 20:59.51 | CM | ynezz: Hehe, maybe time for me to cut down on the /. reading a bit |
| 20:59.55 | juri_ | oh. trolltech. -ENONPRODUCTIVE |
| 21:00.09 | ynezz | ? |
| 21:00.26 | mmazur | qt uber alles! |
| 21:00.56 | ljp | heh.. not from I hear http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/20/back-from-guadec/ |
| 21:01.06 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=sublime@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:01.08 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 21:01.34 | ynezz | 1000 persons, 1000 opinions... |
| 21:01.56 | ScaredyCat | all of them wong, except mine ;) |
| 21:02.34 | ozarka | Thanks for the blog links. |
| 21:02.35 | ljp | ozarka: I think so, but I am biased. it does have some limitations.. i.e. old kernel that we got stuck with |
| 21:03.11 | ozarka | Looking at the comments, it's funny how the open source community likes to tear each other apart. :-) |
| 21:03.59 | CM | ozarka: The NIH-syndrome is strong in these ones.. ;) |
| 21:04.59 | *** join/#openmoko vallor (n=Rock@frenzy.wba.ponzo.net) |
| 21:05.13 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 21:05.36 | mellon | Arguing is much easier than coding. |
| 21:05.47 | mellon | Controlling is much easier than cooperating. |
| 21:06.25 | ljp | well, zecke and I go way back.. :) |
| 21:06.26 | galexande | arguing is easier than waiting patiently, too |
| 21:06.28 | ozarka | mellon: you need dual monitors. Argue on irc on one, code on the other. |
| 21:06.38 | ljp | we argued about opie as well |
| 21:06.40 | mellon | Also two brains. |
| 21:06.51 | mellon | Otherwise, very inefficient. Better to do one or the other. |
| 21:07.37 | mellon | Oh, you're the guy who posted the thing about the greenphone? Heh |
| 21:08.32 | mellon | Personally I prefer QT to Gtk, but what are you going to do? |
| 21:09.06 | ljp | well. just perhaps someone will get qtopia on the fic1973 :) |
| 21:09.11 | Kensan | Somebody pre-emptively call Godwin so we can stop right there ;) |
| 21:09.14 | mellon | Somebody? :') |
| 21:10.43 | juri_ | i like my workflow best: code, compile, while waiting for compile, argue on irc! :) |
| 21:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko pixelstick (n=dwpage@d-74-214-40-122.metrocast.net) |
| 21:10.58 | mellon | Clearly you need a faster computer. |
| 21:11.16 | *** join/#openmoko jfreels (n=jfreels@server2k3.terragotech.com) |
| 21:11.29 | juri_ | dual core 1.6G, using ccache for faster compiles. Clearly, you need bigger projects to contribute to. :) |
| 21:11.33 | mellon | Personally I'm pathetically distracted by the whole "when are they going to ship my Neo?" question. |
| 21:11.51 | mellon | Well, it's taking for bloody ever to build OpenMoko, I will admit. |
| 21:11.52 | jfreels | i got mine, and it doesn't work...so who is better off? |
| 21:12.03 | jfreels | ;) |
| 21:12.05 | mellon | Oh no! A phase 0, or phase 1? |
| 21:12.22 | mellon | Anyway, at least you can fondle it and whisper "my preciousssssss...." |
| 21:12.27 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-171.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 21:12.30 | jfreels | 1 i believe...since it's all black and has a date on it of 4/20/2007 |
| 21:12.46 | jfreels | HA |
| 21:12.57 | mellon | Seriously? |
| 21:13.02 | ljp | doesnt work in what way? |
| 21:13.04 | jfreels | i'm about to flash it now....decided to join the channel incase I needed a little help |
| 21:13.07 | ozarka | I don't care if it works, I just need to look cool while waiting for my non-fat latte at Starbucks. |
| 21:13.17 | jfreels | when I boot it...all I see is the splash screen, doesn't go anywhere else... |
| 21:13.18 | mellon | Darn skippy! |
| 21:13.48 | mellon | Did you get the debug board? |
| 21:13.53 | jfreels | no :( |
| 21:14.03 | mellon | Oof. |
| 21:14.12 | ozarka | Have you tried loading QTopia on it? I hear that's nice. |
| 21:14.26 | jfreels | didn't come with anything but the case, cable and usb outlet charger |
| 21:14.29 | mellon | Are they unpacking each phone, flashing it, and then repacking it? That would explain why it's taking so long. |
| 21:14.51 | ynezz | erasing everything |
| 21:14.54 | juri_ | if they need more employees... ;) |
| 21:15.22 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:15.30 | ynezz | i've written them to erase everything so customs aren't able to prove it's usable, hence i don't need to pay VAT :p |
| 21:15.37 | galexande | hahahahahahha |
| 21:15.55 | koen | ynezz: you don't have to erase anything for that ;) |
| 21:15.59 | jfreels | anyone ever seen the "bad magic number" error? |
| 21:15.59 | mellon | Did you put yourself on the P1_Owners wiki page? |
| 21:16.10 | ynezz | koen: :) |
| 21:16.11 | mellon | What's printing the error? |
| 21:16.11 | jfreels | nope |
| 21:16.20 | mellon | Ah. |
| 21:16.27 | jfreels | when I access the boot menu and then select boot |
| 21:16.47 | mellon | Hm, that's encouraging, actually. Just means that the image isn't runnable. |
| 21:17.09 | mellon | Did you get any feedback after the YES_I_DO message? |
| 21:17.46 | jfreels | I have not seen anything out of this phone other than the splash screen and the boot menu....that's it |
| 21:18.08 | jfreels | so I should flash the uImage? |
| 21:19.08 | mellon | I can't give you advice on that because I haven't trod that path yet, but that sounds like what you need to do, possibly. |
| 21:19.24 | jfreels | i'll try it now....and blame you if it doesn't work ;) |
| 21:19.30 | mellon | Oh, perfect. |
| 21:19.31 | jfreels | wish me luck pls |
| 21:19.39 | jfreels | exit |
| 21:19.42 | mellon | Good luck. |
| 21:19.46 | jfreels | woops...that's not my terminal |
| 21:20.04 | ynezz | ljp: so can we expect qtopia port for neo? :) |
| 21:20.19 | mellon | heh. If you're local to someone with a debug board, and you get desperate, maybe you can get some help. :') |
| 21:20.26 | ozarka | jfreels needs it |
| 21:20.54 | jfreels | yeah, I dunno...someone in Atlanta probably has one |
| 21:21.28 | ozarka | jfreels: Are you in the ATL? I just moved from there. :-( |
| 21:21.35 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 21:21.44 | *** part/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 21:21.53 | mellon | Someone in Marietta. |
| 21:22.03 | jfreels | yeah, work in ATL, and live in east cobb marietta |
| 21:22.11 | mellon | Also someone in Birmingham. |
| 21:22.44 | jfreels | i just saw that on the list...maybe I will try and contact them |
| 21:22.51 | mellon | Well, I guess Marietta's closer, although that guy has a pretty high number. |
| 21:23.18 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ACF0C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:23.59 | jfreels | command not working :\ |
| 21:24.09 | jfreels | "could not claim interface" |
| 21:24.26 | mellon | Woah. |
| 21:24.41 | jfreels | i can terminal into it.....shit |
| 21:24.43 | jfreels | wtf |
| 21:24.59 | mellon | ? |
| 21:25.07 | jfreels | oh wait...shit |
| 21:25.16 | jfreels | it only has one interface...it's suppose to have 6 |
| 21:25.17 | mellon | 300 geeks are leaning over your virtual shoulder wondering what's going on... |
| 21:25.34 | ScaredyCat | a lot of shitting apparently |
| 21:25.39 | mellon | so it would seem. |
| 21:26.18 | ozarka | We need a web cam. |
| 21:26.22 | mellon | Totally. |
| 21:26.38 | ozarka | jfreels could charge $8.95 a month for us to just look at his device. |
| 21:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1_ (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:26.46 | mellon | Heh. $$$ |
| 21:26.55 | Kensan | jfreels: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko might help. If you are not 100% sure don't flash uboot or you might brick it. |
| 21:27.14 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 21:27.23 | jfreels | yeah, I am looking at that documentation currently...not working! |
| 21:28.23 | mellon | jfreels: if you get a second, could you tell us what email you got from fic, if any? I'm trying to figure out if I should panic or not. |
| 21:28.30 | ScaredyCat | roflmao : The perfect Muder, quote 'rich people are different from you and me' |
| 21:28.31 | Kensan | jfreels: did you update kernel+rootfs? |
| 21:28.34 | ScaredyCat | 'how so' |
| 21:28.43 | mellon | (that is, if a phone is going to show up unannounced on my doorstep on Monday whilst I'm in Chicago) |
| 21:28.48 | ScaredyCat | 'they have a fuck lot more money for a start' |
| 21:28.48 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 21:29.07 | jfreels | I got it free....like a month ago |
| 21:29.14 | ozarka | mellon: don't you think you'll see the charge on your cc before it ships? |
| 21:29.15 | jfreels | Kensan: trying that now |
| 21:29.17 | mellon | ah. perfect, thanks. :') |
| 21:29.36 | Kensan | jfreels: what images are you using? Buildhost? |
| 21:29.37 | mellon | ozarka: probably not - it looks like Citibank updates their website about two days in arrears. |
| 21:29.53 | jfreels | buildhost, correct |
| 21:31.14 | Jason1_ | mellon: They will send you a payment confirmation email as soon as they process your card. |
| 21:31.17 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=huhh@3e70c9d6.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:31.41 | mellon | Ah, okay. I wasn't sure if people got email or if they were just stalking their credit cards. |
| 21:32.15 | ScaredyCat | s/as soon as/when they eventually/ |
| 21:32.24 | Jason1_ | mellon: Yeah, they have started (slowly) processing cards. I got my "Payment Processed" email several days ago. |
| 21:32.44 | Kensan | jfreels: is it Phase0 or Phase 1 (BV03 or BV04)? |
| 21:33.03 | ScaredyCat | Jason1_: slowly? slowly would be 10 a day.. :) |
| 21:33.14 | galexande | haltingly |
| 21:33.22 | ScaredyCat | any shipping notice yet Jason1? |
| 21:33.28 | don-o | good word use, galexande |
| 21:33.42 | ScaredyCat | reversingly would be a good word, if it existed |
| 21:33.44 | don-o | glacially |
| 21:33.46 | jfreels | 4 |
| 21:33.50 | Jason1_ | ScaredyCat: LOL I have been away for a while. I saw the Wiki showed that #1880 had been proccessed. Have they really got htat far? |
| 21:33.51 | jfreels | still isn't working |
| 21:34.22 | ScaredyCat | no... |
| 21:34.22 | jfreels | oh wait... |
| 21:34.23 | ScaredyCat | they skipped everyone else Jason1_ |
| 21:34.23 | Jason1_ | ScaredyCat: Nope :( of couse, at this point, I am not surprised |
| 21:34.24 | ScaredyCat | they've done 4 people |
| 21:34.24 | ScaredyCat | you included |
| 21:34.28 | Jason1_ | ScaredyCat: That doesnt make any sense |
| 21:34.39 | Kensan | jfreels: after flashing the kernel you should get past the bootsplash... |
| 21:34.42 | don-o | 4 people who are into the whole 'wiki' thing, anyways |
| 21:34.58 | ScaredyCat | true |
| 21:35.04 | galexande | i'm into the wiki thing and have order #1841 and no billing confirmation, no cc activity |
| 21:35.10 | Jason1_ | FIC really sucks at the B2C stuff |
| 21:35.17 | jfreels | Kensan, it says "can not claim interface 2: Operation not permitted" |
| 21:35.45 | sublime | sounds like a permissions thing |
| 21:35.46 | Jason1_ | All they need now is a automated phone system that won't connect you to a human :) |
| 21:35.50 | Kensan | jfreels: right after bootsplash or do you see the Tux? |
| 21:35.57 | jfreels | nope |
| 21:36.11 | jfreels | nothing comes after the bootsplash |
| 21:36.28 | ScaredyCat | yeah, press 1 to hang up, 2 for some hold music, 3 for total silence |
| 21:36.47 | Jason1_ | galexande: That sucks. I was hoping they were actually processing cards now. I was hoping to see them start shipping those first 50 or so orders on Monday |
| 21:37.16 | Kensan | jfreels: Are you able to flash the phone or is dfu-utils giving the error msg? |
| 21:37.17 | Jason1_ | ScaredyCat: lol' |
| 21:37.32 | jfreels | dfu-utils is giving the error |
| 21:37.45 | mellon | They've bitten of a kind of annoying chunk - the whole "charging your card in Taiwan dollars and back-converting the currency to U.S. dollars" thing has got to be causing them immense heartburn. |
| 21:37.56 | jfreels | HA |
| 21:38.14 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa[AwAy] (n=huhh@3e70c9d6.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:38.26 | ozarka | I was hoping to see them start shipping the first 900 or so orders. |
| 21:38.31 | Aria | Me too. |
| 21:38.47 | Kensan | jfreels: Is the Neo the only device hooked to USB? |
| 21:38.51 | ScaredyCat | mellon: they should have just quoted tiawnese $'s |
| 21:38.57 | Jason1_ | ozarka: I would like them to ship the first 1-2 orders. I REALLY think they should test UPS... |
| 21:39.01 | mellon | Yeah. Oops. |
| 21:39.24 | jfreels | Kensan: only thing |
| 21:39.31 | Kensan | jfreels: what does "./dfu-utils --list" return? |
| 21:39.36 | don-o | test UPS? i think its pretty well tested :) |
| 21:40.18 | Jason1_ | don-o: Nah, I REALLY, REALLY think they should send at leat one test order...Maybe the first order... |
| 21:40.26 | jfreels | Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0 name="UNDEFINED" |
| 21:40.44 | ScaredyCat | naaa, they need to test 1826 |
| 21:40.46 | Jason1_ | don-o: hint: I am the first order :) |
| 21:40.46 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Graphics_Tablet]] [[Input_Method]] |
| 21:41.20 | mellon | jason: your selfless desire to debug the process is inspiring to the rest of us. |
| 21:41.27 | don-o | Jason1_: oH! LOL i get it |
| 21:41.27 | Kensan | jfreels: is your Neo in DFU-mode? |
| 21:41.41 | Jason1_ | See mellon understands. I am willin to "take one for the team" |
| 21:41.49 | don-o | Jason1_: you are the FIRST? you should get some kind of badge or change your nick. |
| 21:42.06 | don-o | oh the '1' is for that? |
| 21:42.19 | Jason1_ | don-o: Not really, but it seems to fit |
| 21:42.28 | don-o | MokoOne (sort of like airforce one) is a suggestion. |
| 21:42.40 | Jason1_ | don-o: LOL, love it. |
| 21:42.47 | SpeedEvil | Maybe Jason1_'s neo will arrive in a golden fur case. |
| 21:42.50 | ScaredyCat | 'bastard' would be more suitable ;) |
| 21:42.56 | don-o | lol |
| 21:42.57 | MokoOne | heh |
| 21:42.58 | *** join/#openmoko moo^ (n=sexycows@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 21:42.59 | jfreels | Kensan: it doesn't seem like it will go into that mode |
| 21:43.01 | juri_ | so, that'd make me "moko99999999..." ;) |
| 21:43.12 | ozarka | we should all change our nicks to our order numbers. |
| 21:43.21 | Kensan | jfreels: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko#Putting_the_device_into_DFU_mode |
| 21:43.32 | Aria | juri_: no, that's ewanm89_laptop |
| 21:43.40 | jfreels | never says "Switching..." |
| 21:43.41 | ozarka | When | If it ships, we can change nicks to UPS tracking numbers. |
| 21:43.42 | jfreels | :\ |
| 21:43.53 | Order1820 | ozarka: awesome |
| 21:43.57 | don-o | lol |
| 21:44.10 | don-o | don-o-1Z544892740194 |
| 21:44.21 | Order1819 | :D |
| 21:44.30 | don-o | might as well add estimated arrival date to the nick, and current city |
| 21:44.39 | Order1820 | Order1819: Dont make me hurt you |
| 21:44.41 | Kensan | jfreels: disconnect Neo from Host. Turn power off and on again and hold AUX. Connect to Host once you are in Uboot. |
| 21:44.45 | don-o | a google map mashup of all neos in-shippment |
| 21:44.53 | Order1819 | hahahah |
| 21:44.59 | Aria | /nick Aria1Z1234566121431231RidgwayCO |
| 21:45.11 | mellon | I feel like a number... |
| 21:46.10 | jfreels | tried that |
| 21:46.14 | jfreels | quite a few times |
| 21:46.46 | jfreels | I can do lsusb and other type of things...and terminal into it |
| 21:46.53 | noidd | 1Z410E7W0326674441 is my tracking number. |
| 21:47.02 | noidd | I promise i'm not lying. |
| 21:47.11 | cbrake | noidd: so do they email you your tracking #? |
| 21:47.14 | Jason1 | noidd: Prove it |
| 21:47.21 | ScaredyCat | not for your neo thugh |
| 21:47.24 | ScaredyCat | though |
| 21:47.27 | noidd | It's not for my neo |
| 21:47.35 | noidd | its for 3 packs of 5xDV tapes |
| 21:47.44 | Kensan | jfreels: It seems uboot is there and the USB-link is working but the phone won't switch into DFU-Mode... |
| 21:47.54 | Elrond | pH5 - You saw the mail by the russian guy? |
| 21:48.04 | *** part/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dantaliz@n128-227-127-96.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 21:48.10 | Jason1 | noidd: Thats nice |
| 21:48.46 | Jason1 | cbrake: They are supposed to send a shipment notification, but of course, nobody has gotten one yet. |
| 21:48.59 | cbrake | Jason1: ok, thanks just wondering |
| 21:49.08 | CM | Vacation!!! :D |
| 21:49.14 | Elrond | pH5 - Ahh, just found your mail... |
| 21:49.17 | noidd | he |
| 21:49.21 | ScaredyCat | then you forfeit your device |
| 21:49.25 | don-o | im secretly hoping that i'll be able to buy a neo at OSCON |
| 21:49.35 | Jason1 | yup. automatic forfeit |
| 21:49.44 | mellon | Wow, what an optimist! We need more people like you. |
| 21:49.44 | CM | ScaredyCat: No, never.. It's my preciousssss |
| 21:49.54 | Jason1 | CM: LOL! |
| 21:50.14 | don-o | the nerd-o-meter just hit a new high |
| 21:50.22 | Jason1 | CM: I can just see you clutching your Neo hanging around your neck |
| 21:50.29 | Kensan | jfreels: Did you try it with removing the battery? |
| 21:50.42 | CM | Jason1: Hehe.. Stroking the sides.. :P |
| 21:50.57 | don-o | ha. careful, we're treading into iPhone fanboy territory |
| 21:51.20 | CM | don-o: Don't worry, I won't start touching myself holding it ;) |
| 21:51.30 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 21:51.32 | don-o | haha. uh. i mean ewwwwwwww |
| 21:51.33 | jfreels | guess i'll have to use the SD card to get them on there |
| 21:52.09 | jfreels | it won't turn on if I remove the battery (YES, plugged into usb) |
| 21:52.18 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 21:52.28 | *** join/#openmoko vallor (n=Rock@frenzy.wba.ponzo.net) |
| 21:52.54 | Kensan | jfreels: I mean turn off phone, remove battery, wait ~10secs, put battery back in, ... |
| 21:53.37 | jfreels | *trying* |
| 21:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-9dab0be26d3d2cf9) |
| 21:54.15 | *** part/#openmoko sublime (n=sublime@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:54.35 | jfreels | so at the boot menu, do I just plug it in? or select "set console to USB" then plug it in? or what? |
| 21:56.05 | Kensan | jfreels: imho just pluging it in should work... |
| 21:56.16 | jfreels | okay, trying now |
| 21:57.03 | jfreels | nothing :\ |
| 21:57.17 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 21:57.47 | pH5 | Elrond: yup, he already showed up on irc one day. too bad I was afk. |
| 21:58.26 | Kensan | jfreels: hm... if you don't get it into DFU-mode you can't flash it without a debug board I guess. |
| 21:58.55 | jfreels | well you can still flash through the terminal, I just don't have my SD card on me here at work |
| 21:59.06 | jfreels | guess i'll have to try that |
| 21:59.39 | Kensan | jfreels: oh ok. Something with your uboot seems funky... |
| 21:59.56 | Elrond | pH5 - Ahh. Can you just add me to the ML? |
| 22:00.15 | jfreels | yeah it does...i'll be back on later tonight if anyone cares to hear me bitch about this issue |
| 22:00.59 | Kensan | jfreels: can you put it in the discussion page on the wiki? I would like to know how you fix it. |
| 22:01.25 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 22:06.08 | pH5 | Elrond: sure. ...+linuxtogo.org@... or something sphyrna specific? |
| 22:06.37 | Elrond | pH5 - +linuxtogo.org is fine. |
| 22:06.49 | Elrond | I hope it's not too much traffic anyway. ;o) |
| 22:07.03 | pH5 | lol. probably not |
| 22:07.26 | Jason1 | CM: Got a gift for you: http://www.chooseopen.com/gollum-OpenMoko.jpg |
| 22:08.03 | ScaredyCat | lol - accurate picture tooo |
| 22:08.16 | don-o | Jason1: sweet. |
| 22:08.53 | Jason1 | hehe. That will be all of us, some day |
| 22:09.06 | Elrond | Hmm, who's that guy? http://www.flickr.com/photos/natatwo/sets/72157600841354683/detail/ |
| 22:09.43 | don-o | wow. nice comparison. |
| 22:09.46 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-248.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 22:11.42 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:12.06 | Jason1 | those are soem good shots. Hoewever, the camera makes the Neo look fat. |
| 22:12.33 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:13.32 | daMaestro | assuming that the iphone has similar durability to the neo.. those pictures are not flattering for the neo at all |
| 22:13.58 | Jason1 | daMaestro: Assuming that the the Neo is durable... |
| 22:14.12 | daMaestro | yes, it is a two way streem |
| 22:14.14 | daMaestro | hmm |
| 22:14.16 | don-o | the doughnut hole at the bottom of the neo looks gratuitous |
| 22:14.19 | daMaestro | damnit.. i need another latte |
| 22:14.26 | don-o | id rather have a shorter phone and no loop hole |
| 22:14.34 | SpeedEvil | Jason1: You need to do the test when it arrives. |
| 22:14.38 | SpeedEvil | Jason1: Will It BLEND! |
| 22:14.42 | don-o | Jason1: Will it Blend! |
| 22:14.47 | Jason1 | NO!!! |
| 22:14.50 | don-o | SpeedEvil: beat me to it. :) |
| 22:15.38 | *** join/#openmoko grahamperrin (n=grahampe@bb-87-81-165-9.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 22:15.53 | Jason1 | yeah, see, you cant hang your iPhone from your neck :) |
| 22:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko jadams (n=jadams@rrcs-67-78-224-48.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:16.24 | ScaredyCat | so tha tit dips in your soup when you lean forward? |
| 22:16.42 | ScaredyCat | s/tha tit/that it/ |
| 22:16.57 | daMaestro | apt-- |
| 22:16.59 | daMaestro | lol |
| 22:17.06 | don-o | thats what the soup-sensor is for |
| 22:17.16 | Jason1 | LOL |
| 22:17.28 | Jason1 | That big iPhone screen is only 320x480? |
| 22:17.39 | don-o | Jason1: criminal, isnt it? :) |
| 22:17.44 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:17.57 | ScaredyCat | meep |
| 22:17.59 | don-o | Jason1: actually i think the neo's DPI is rediculously high |
| 22:18.28 | Jason1 | don-o: Or is it perfectly optimized? |
| 22:18.35 | Jason1 | ;) |
| 22:18.39 | don-o | Jason1: oh! i see that now! :) |
| 22:19.45 | Jason1 | don-o: I cant wait to see it. It shouldbe much clearer than the typicall Windows Mobile PDA. The higher resoltuion though is going to make certain things look small though, right? |
| 22:19.47 | kiney | counter |
| 22:19.47 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-19 00:49) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 06:50:06 (0.285±0.3 days) (1763;249) |
| 22:26.31 | *** join/#openmoko alUrdun_ (n=jordan@64.180.94.253) |
| 22:26.52 | jaebird | SpeedEvil: busy today? |
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| 22:28.30 | don-o | Jason1: i think gnome will eventually have all vector graphics (resolution independence) |
| 22:28.56 | don-o | Jason1: until then, just scale-up the PNGs :) |
| 22:29.35 | SpeedEvil | jaebird :) |
| 22:30.36 | CM | Jason1: Lol! |
| 22:30.50 | Jason1 | CM: :) |
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| 22:32.09 | BryceLeo | doh i know what jfreels problem was |
| 22:32.15 | BryceLeo | well... i think i do anyway |
| 22:33.27 | BryceLeo | anywhoo |
| 22:33.46 | BryceLeo | i must be off for food and setting up my ubuntu env on my new laptop |
| 22:33.49 | BryceLeo | yay |
| 22:34.10 | BryceLeo | i'll be back later probably |
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| 22:43.08 | CM | cbrake: Nice blog post :) |
| 22:43.21 | woglinde | nite |
| 22:43.27 | cbrake | CM: thx |
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| 22:55.29 | mellon | Man, it is really weird that people who have no coding ability at all ordered the phone anyway. I think it's a very good sign, but it's still weird. |
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| 22:55.48 | sandos | I'm a coder for a living, but I will not order a GTA01 |
| 22:56.04 | mellon | Because you're sensible? :') |
| 22:56.07 | sandos | I'm just not good enough, especially GUI stuff and C/C++ to be of any great help |
| 22:56.24 | sandos | I don't have neither time or patience for that sort of development :) |
| 22:56.38 | sandos | applications, sure.. but that will come later I imagine |
| 22:56.38 | kristian-m | sandos you could use python |
| 22:56.43 | mellon | I don't blame you - GUI hacking in C/C++ is a royal pain. |
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| 22:56.55 | mellon | Blech, my build died on perl. |
| 22:57.13 | sandos | I think Im going to buy the p2 one, but that depends on the state of things |
| 22:57.48 | mellon | The state of things will be really good. |
| 22:57.55 | sandos | I hope so |
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| 23:08.14 | ozark1 | Anybody with experience with MokoMakefile? |
| 23:08.44 | ozark1 | Everything worked at first, but when I try "make qemu" it barfs on gcc 4.x |
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| 23:13.58 | cesarb | ozark1: just install gcc-3.4 or gcc-3.3 |
| 23:14.15 | cesarb | ozark1: qemu's build system will detect it and automagically use it |
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| 23:14.42 | cesarb | ozark1: unless you are in gentoo, where I have heard you have to do something ridiculously complicated |
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| 23:17.07 | ozark1 | I'm in ubuntu. |
| 23:17.32 | mellon | Has anyone had their perl build fail this way? | ../makedepend: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string |
| 23:17.41 | cesarb | ozark1: me too, so just install gcc-3.4 |
| 23:17.49 | cesarb | ozark1: and then it should work |
| 23:18.12 | ozark1 | Yay! It's building. |
| 23:18.40 | ozark1 | Unfortunately, I can't take out qemu at the Starbucks and look cool. :-( |
| 23:19.07 | sandos | haha |
| 23:19.10 | mellon | Depends on who's at the *$$ with you. |
| 23:19.29 | ozark1 | mellon: isn't that a by-product of the dash-bash thing? |
| 23:19.46 | mellon | Hm, dunno. |
| 23:19.59 | mellon | I'm building with bitbake. |
| 23:20.25 | ozark1 | Are you using MokoMakefile? |
| 23:20.32 | ozark1 | Or from scratch? |
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| 23:20.40 | mellon | From scratch. |
| 23:20.48 | mellon | But yes, that looks like the problem. |
| 23:21.03 | cesarb | mellon: yes, it's dash versus bash... |
| 23:21.13 | cesarb | mellon: I created a patch to mokomakefile to fix it |
| 23:21.21 | ozark1 | Why from scratch? |
| 23:21.26 | cesarb | mellon: so, when you use mokomakefile, it applies the patch and works |
| 23:21.32 | mellon | ah, cool. |
| 23:21.35 | cesarb | mellon: you have to apply it by hand if you build it yourself |
| 23:21.42 | ozark1 | Are there any benefits to not using the MokoMakefile? |
| 23:22.02 | mellon | The theory was that I'd get a better sense of what the build's doing, but it's not clear that that's really the case. |
| 23:22.20 | cesarb | mellon: they are on rwhitby's svn, directory patches/openembedded-<huge number> |
| 23:22.51 | ozark1 | I had the same thought (better sense of what's happening) |
| 23:23.04 | ScaredyCat | the build process is just daft with 7 trillion daft requirements |
| 23:23.10 | ozark1 | but MokoMakefile has been really easy so far. |
| 23:23.16 | cesarb | nah, the way to get a better sense would be to not use bitbake ;-) |
| 23:23.23 | mellon | cesarb: thanks. |
| 23:23.34 | mellon | yeah, it would be nice if the build weren't quite so opaque. |
| 23:23.39 | cesarb | mokomakefile is just a very thin wrapper around bitbake, and mostly deals with its setup |
| 23:23.43 | ScaredyCat | this is both the problem and one of the good things about linux dev |
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| 23:23.50 | mellon | Sometimes people over-package things. |
| 23:24.19 | cesarb | mellon: feel happy no bozo has created a GUI around mokomakefile... THAT would be over-packaging |
| 23:24.19 | ScaredyCat | essentially everyone uses their favourite tools meaning everyone has to then install them all |
| 23:24.22 | mellon | One of the things I like about the NetBSD pkgsrc build process is that it's pretty easy to understand how it works. |
| 23:24.27 | ozark1 | qemu is apparently running PalmOS 3.1 |
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| 23:24.38 | ScaredyCat | rather than useing say svn or git or cvs we end up wiht them all |
| 23:24.39 | ozark1 | It asked me to touch the crosshairs to calibrate the screen... |
| 23:25.11 | ozark1 | ...oh wait, now I've got it. |
| 23:25.14 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: you forgot monotone |
| 23:25.25 | ScaredyCat | yeah, that too... |
| 23:25.53 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: don't worry, cvs will end up going away... most people will end up migrating to svn |
| 23:26.14 | ScaredyCat | most people seem to be migrating to git |
| 23:26.16 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: the same way RCS has gone away and cvs took its place |
| 23:26.31 | ScaredyCat | i prefer svn |
| 23:26.34 | ozark1 | RCS is gone?!?! |
| 23:26.53 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: git is very cool, unless you use that other operating system... it was designed by someone who never used it, let alone developed for it, and it shows |
| 23:27.16 | abraxa_ | cesarb: Windows |
| 23:27.17 | abraxa_ | ? |
| 23:27.24 | ScaredyCat | i thought it was torvalds |
| 23:27.27 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: BSD? |
| 23:27.34 | cesarb | (for instance, it assumes fork/exec is cheap, assumes file access is fast, and never even gave a thought to CRLF) |
| 23:27.50 | ozark1 | I think he means the Windows version was designed by someone who never used it. |
| 23:28.04 | ozark1 | Unless he was talking about BSD. |
| 23:28.14 | mellon | Eh, dealing with Windows brokenness isn't worth it. |
| 23:28.19 | ScaredyCat | or os2/warp |
| 23:28.21 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 23:28.25 | sandos | git from the beginning also relied on inode numbers. Which wouldve made porting to windows very hard, but I (think) they dropped that requirement |
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| 23:28.32 | mellon | The whole point of git was to get something working fast. |
| 23:28.44 | sandos | lets just say linus wasnt very about that "problem" ;) |
| 23:29.01 | ScaredyCat | I don't see what git offers that svn doesn;t |
| 23:29.12 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: distributed development |
| 23:29.18 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: and it's fast. really fast. |
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| 23:29.39 | Aria | Really /freaking/ fast |
| 23:29.43 | Aria | Also, rebasing patches well. |
| 23:29.50 | don-o | ScaredyCat: proven integrity of the whole repo or any one commit |
| 23:29.54 | cesarb | svnsync doesn't cut it |
| 23:30.19 | ozark1 | Is there a Visual Studio plugin for git? |
| 23:30.40 | cesarb | ozark1, most people who use git on that OS use it via _cygwin_ |
| 23:30.53 | cesarb | ozark1: it's way far from a plugin for that IDE |
| 23:31.13 | ozark1 | cesarb: sorry... dropped my :-) |
| 23:31.54 | don-o | ScaredyCat: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2199332044603874737 (Linus on git) |
| 23:31.56 | cesarb | ozark1: lol |
| 23:36.35 | ozark1 | So I built qemu and all that with the MokoMakefile. |
| 23:36.46 | daMaestro | git++ |
| 23:37.03 | ozark1 | Now I'm on to Hello, World! |
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| 23:40.27 | cesarb | Well, I added the gcc 3 FAQ to the mokomakefile page... it has been asked way too many times already |
| 23:40.28 | don-o | http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSvnComparsion |
| 23:40.46 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC]] |
| 23:44.14 | cesarb | don-o: wow, that wiki page is completely screwed up... lots of bizarre junk like "Markup da Wiki" href="/gitwiki/GitSvnComparsion?action=raw">" |
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