| 00:05.06 | *** part/#openmoko pitux22 (n=sonny@i05m-213-44-25-207.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 00:10.25 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 00:13.39 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@CPE001057000aad-CM001225d73c82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:13.45 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 00:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko sagaci2 (n=sagacis@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 00:19.23 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.55 | cesarb | The nearer it gets, the longer the wait becomes |
| 00:21.21 | sagaci2 | Hmm... no news is good news? |
| 00:24.50 | *** join/#openmoko elliotf (n=elliotf@adsl-71-134-236-171.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 00:25.37 | Aria | No news is a superposition of the potential news? |
| 00:28.11 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ottawa-hs-206-191-39-233.d-ip.magma.ca) |
| 00:29.36 | quinton | i'm sure the cat will still be both dead and alive if we just peek a *little* |
| 00:30.17 | Aria | Either that or the potential futures will fragment. |
| 00:30.21 | Aria | If you follow many worlds anyway. |
| 00:32.14 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFD589.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:32.32 | rwhitby | the quantum collapse will eat your neo, leaving you with nothing but some radiation output. |
| 00:32.48 | BlackBsd | we have to have write access to the svn repo to perform the build process? |
| 00:33.14 | rwhitby | no |
| 00:33.26 | BlackBsd | i wouldnt think so |
| 00:33.46 | rwhitby | why do you ask? |
| 00:34.24 | BlackBsd | well i want to build from scratch. |
| 00:34.36 | BlackBsd | i only have a pc right now so im wondering how far i can get |
| 00:35.06 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedFire_ (n=SpeedFir@fedora/SpeedFire) |
| 00:35.26 | rwhitby | run vmware, install debian etch, install all the prereqs on the mokomakefile wiki page, run mokomakefile, run your built image in qemu, done. |
| 00:35.26 | BlackBsd | and the from scratch wiki under the permissions section says that |
| 00:35.41 | BlackBsd | im on gentoo |
| 00:35.46 | BlackBsd | already.. |
| 00:35.52 | rwhitby | just run the mokomakefile then |
| 00:35.53 | BlackBsd | why vmware |
| 00:36.05 | BlackBsd | i dont have any source checked out yet |
| 00:36.34 | rwhitby | oh, you said PC and I incorrectly assumed windows. |
| 00:36.37 | BlackBsd | looking for the line svn co /the/source/tree |
| 00:36.44 | quinton | i think the mokomakefile automatically gets everything you need |
| 00:36.44 | BlackBsd | sorry |
| 00:36.47 | BlackBsd | my fault |
| 00:36.53 | BlackBsd | really? cool |
| 00:36.54 | rwhitby | no, bad assumption on my part |
| 00:37.52 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFD589.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:37.55 | BlackBsd | and nice to meet you rob. |
| 00:37.58 | BlackBsd | btw |
| 00:38.15 | BlackBsd | is mokomake file in portage? |
| 00:38.43 | quinton | not yet =) |
| 00:39.15 | BlackBsd | :-) |
| 00:39.29 | BlackBsd | whats this about freebsd.. |
| 00:41.56 | *** join/#openmoko Pomelo (n=Pomelo@211.136.158.152) |
| 00:43.38 | BlackBsd | do we need a certain version of bitbake? |
| 00:44.36 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 00:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko Pomelo_ (n=Pomelo_@211.136.158.168) |
| 00:44.58 | quinton | i think i'm using the one suggested on the wiki. i'm pretty sure you don't have to actually install it |
| 00:45.32 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 00:45.42 | *** join/#openmoko sagaci1 (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 00:45.49 | quinton | following the wiki page i built it as the 'moko' user and just skipped installing it |
| 00:46.12 | BlackBsd | so you built the code you checked out? |
| 00:46.20 | quinton | yes |
| 00:46.35 | quinton | i'm guessing that you're asking because they're all masked in gentoo? |
| 00:46.51 | BlackBsd | well bitbake so far is. |
| 00:47.04 | BlackBsd | so can i still use mokomakefile |
| 00:47.20 | quinton | i think i'm doing what the mokomakefile does |
| 00:48.24 | quinton | because the mokomakefile was able to use bitbake without having had root access |
| 00:49.21 | BlackBsd | i need to start dl'ing the source. |
| 00:49.25 | BlackBsd | downloading |
| 00:59.18 | rwhitby | mokomakefile downloads, patches, and uses it's own bitbake. |
| 00:59.39 | rwhitby | (since openmoko has local patches to it) |
| 01:06.02 | BlackBsd | so do i still need to emerge bitbake? |
| 01:06.07 | *** join/#openmoko mjr (i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi) |
| 01:06.11 | quinton | BlackBsd, no |
| 01:06.21 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 01:13.11 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 01:15.32 | BlackBsd | should i be running a bash shell when running make? |
| 01:16.00 | BlackBsd | sometimes i have had issues when compiling software if i was using a tcsh |
| 01:17.41 | quinton | good question |
| 01:17.57 | quinton | if you have bash, couldn't you run the make under it from within the tcsh shell? |
| 01:18.04 | BlackBsd | i will let you know :-) |
| 01:18.13 | quinton | =) |
| 01:18.16 | BlackBsd | yes |
| 01:18.47 | BlackBsd | i like the command completion and spell checking in tcsh |
| 01:18.55 | BlackBsd | and case insensitivity |
| 01:19.03 | BlackBsd | :-) |
| 01:19.09 | cesarb | BlackBsd: doesn't mokomakefile and everything it calls use only /bin/sh? |
| 01:19.26 | cesarb | BlackBsd: if your /bin/sh is bash or dash, it should work no matter what your login shell is... |
| 01:19.26 | don-o | the 16th is pretty much over. any updates on the neo shipment? |
| 01:19.36 | cesarb | don-o: no |
| 01:19.55 | BlackBsd | right. |
| 01:22.02 | BlackBsd | cesarb, yes your correct. |
| 01:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko Siph0n (n=siph0n@c-68-45-54-91.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 01:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko shrapnel (n=shrapnel@pool-64-222-229-46.port.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:32.17 | cesarb | IPhones Flooding Wireless LAN At Duke: http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/07/16/232258.shtml |
| 01:32.35 | cesarb | It would be interesting to find out what's the cause, to avoid the neo having a similar problem with GTA02 |
| 01:33.13 | *** join/#openmoko Bryc1 (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 01:35.33 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@wlan203.sandelman.ca) |
| 01:37.00 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-198.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 01:37.00 | BlackBsd | i had an iphone for 4 days |
| 01:37.05 | BlackBsd | then took it back |
| 01:37.22 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Modular_phone]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[FAQ]] [[User:Alf]] [[Talk:Modular_phone]] |
| 01:37.42 | Bryc1 | why'd ya do that BlackBsd |
| 01:38.04 | BlackBsd | i wonder if i will be able to use this phone with my kde apps like kontact |
| 01:38.21 | BlackBsd | bryc1 the phone had very little features |
| 01:38.26 | BlackBsd | for the price |
| 01:38.33 | BlackBsd | and it was unfriendly |
| 01:38.47 | BlackBsd | but the touch screens was sweet |
| 01:39.24 | BlackBsd | i think this phone will have all similar apps soon anyways |
| 01:39.25 | Siph0n | my friend has an iphone and he can never get reception :) |
| 01:39.46 | BlackBsd | the maps app was sweet |
| 01:40.21 | BlackBsd | and this phone will have gps so who knows, maybe i can have an app to simulate tomtom |
| 01:40.31 | BlackBsd | mokmok |
| 01:40.48 | BlackBsd | :-) |
| 01:41.00 | Bryc1 | haha |
| 01:41.07 | Bryc1 | my boss has a Iphone he loves it |
| 01:41.23 | BlackBsd | plus the edge service is slow |
| 01:41.25 | Bryc1 | they're pretty cool, and durable as all hell, that's the only reason i'd consider one |
| 01:41.39 | Bryc1 | haha you should try 1xrtt service on verizon!!! |
| 01:42.02 | Bryc1 | and i had to fight like mad to get them to open that and turn of per kb usage, so that i could surf the web free nights and weekends |
| 01:42.14 | BlackBsd | i like thtat the iphone just connected to different networks when edge was not available |
| 01:42.29 | Bryc1 | that was pretty cool |
| 01:42.29 | Siph0n | actually a question i had was what service would i need if i got an openmoko? i tried looking it up but didnt see anything |
| 01:42.30 | aloril | Siph0n: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 01:42.31 | Bryc1 | but most do it |
| 01:42.58 | BlackBsd | siph0n the phone is unlocked, you need to have a carrier of gsm |
| 01:43.15 | Bryc1 | to use the moko, first you need to wait for the software support but any gsm network, tmobile, att, alltel, etc. |
| 01:43.37 | cjb_ie | is the moko quad band? (world phone) |
| 01:43.41 | roh | hah... yeah... who's from the us here? |
| 01:43.47 | Bryc1 | i'm from the US |
| 01:43.51 | Bryc1 | NJ actually |
| 01:43.53 | BlackBsd | i am |
| 01:43.55 | ckuethe | .ca |
| 01:44.01 | BlackBsd | WV |
| 01:44.10 | Bryc1 | wv? |
| 01:44.10 | aloril | Bryc1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 01:44.26 | BlackBsd | west verginia, right near pittsburgh PA |
| 01:44.27 | Siph0n | BlackBsd: thanks!!! :) ok |
| 01:44.32 | Siph0n | im in US, NJ also :) |
| 01:44.32 | DukeOfUrl | what's the difference between Cingular GPRS and EDGE? |
| 01:44.36 | BlackBsd | virginia |
| 01:44.43 | DukeOfUrl | colorado |
| 01:44.56 | roh | nice. were still getting hit by huge amounts of users asking 'which service we provide' or 'which plan they need' |
| 01:45.12 | BlackBsd | wow openembeded snapshot took 20min to donwload |
| 01:45.41 | Bryc1 | ahh cool |
| 01:45.47 | roh | so i get to the point: how to explain something like the carrier|device seperation and sims to someone who never got explained the concept |
| 01:46.12 | cesarb | roh: explain carrier versus device first |
| 01:46.13 | Bryc1 | just use the isp example |
| 01:46.19 | cesarb | roh: the SIM is just a technical detail |
| 01:46.55 | Bryc1 | you have a computer (phone) and you connect to the word wide web (network) via Embarq (att, tmobile, alltel etc.) |
| 01:47.00 | cesarb | roh: agree with Bryc1, another cool example would be POTS, where you can buy any old phone and connect to your phone line |
| 01:47.23 | roh | cesarb heh.. the important detail since its the only thing which enables you to use any device and the carrier does not need to care either |
| 01:47.29 | Bryc1 | cesarb: be careful with that one becuase then they'll think any carrier, bring up the major gsm carriers |
| 01:47.35 | cesarb | roh: but no matter what you do, leave the SIM part to the end, since it will confuse people |
| 01:47.36 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:48.08 | cesarb | Bryc1: well, around here ALL carriers are GSM (even the CDMA one is starting to use GSM too), so I tend to forget about that detail ;-) |
| 01:48.09 | Bryc1 | just call the sim, a "memory chip for your address book" (yes that bastardized an example) and most people will be happy enough |
| 01:48.10 | roh | cesarb it already starts at cdma.. people seem to have no clue that there are 2 completely different and incompatible technologies on the market in the us |
| 01:48.49 | Arachnid | I'd call it something like "the chip that stores your phone number" |
| 01:49.15 | Bryc1 | Arachnid: that's a good one too, a bit more accurate because not all sims store address book etc |
| 01:49.30 | Bryc1 | cesarb: where are you at that they're all switching to gsm? |
| 01:49.39 | cjb_ie | at this point, do we really want to attract people that don't understand even the basics? |
| 01:49.48 | cesarb | Well, we DO have a wiki, and that's what wiki are good at... Why not start a page explaining these details? |
| 01:49.54 | cesarb | Bryc1: Rio de Janeiro |
| 01:50.14 | cesarb | cjb_ie: the main problem is that we've already attracted these people |
| 01:50.16 | roh | cjb_ie its not about that. its about answering questions people have and continue to ask |
| 01:50.22 | cesarb | cjb_ie: we have to dispell the confusion |
| 01:50.39 | Bryc1 | cesarb: lucky you, out here we've got sprint and verizon who will be diehard cdma till they die |
| 01:51.10 | roh | cjb_ie i'm a techie from europe.. so i'd rather ask someone who understands the fundamental problem first before answering a question which i would never believed to be asked ;) |
| 01:51.13 | Bryc1 | roh: oh i see what you mean, but rgtfaq is a bit of a pain |
| 01:51.33 | roh | rgtfaq? |
| 01:51.53 | cesarb | Bryc1: I think the problem with Vivo was that not only they had the CDMA, TDMA, and AMPS coverage, but they bought another carrier which used GSM |
| 01:52.03 | cesarb | Bryc1: so, to get out of that mess, they started a move to GSM |
| 01:52.10 | cesarb | Bryc1: that's my guess only, of course |
| 01:52.20 | Bryc1 | cesarb: ok that makes sense |
| 01:52.29 | cesarb | Bryc1: the other carriers, one started as AMPS -> TDMA -> GSM, the other two were GSM since the beginning |
| 01:52.42 | Bryc1 | i's only suggest the two who have been and are gsm |
| 01:52.57 | Bryc1 | that way they won't have any bad carrier experience and tie it to the phone "getting crappy signal" |
| 01:53.00 | cesarb | Bryc1: I can get you the Wikipedia articles for the carriers if you want... the carrier situation around here is a bit confusing |
| 01:53.09 | Bryc1 | that would be awesome |
| 01:53.15 | Bryc1 | i wish that the wiki search worked better |
| 01:53.20 | cesarb | Bryc1: I use the one who went AMPS -> TDMA -> GSM, and there are no problems |
| 01:53.21 | Bryc1 | i can never find jack s*** on there |
| 01:53.31 | BlackBsd | the documentation is in .doc format |
| 01:53.37 | BlackBsd | i guess to be widely supported |
| 01:53.44 | BlackBsd | :-) |
| 01:53.53 | Bryc1 | cesarb: really? wow what a great infrastructure you guys must have out there, here the cdma evdo thing is a hassle is a support nightmare |
| 01:54.24 | Bryc1 | yeah if you could link me to the faq that'd be great |
| 01:54.37 | Bryc1 | i'll brb gotta grab some water |
| 01:54.40 | cjb_ie | see, in sensible countries, it's all GSM, and has been for years |
| 01:55.15 | BlackBsd | how bout ogg support? |
| 01:55.18 | cesarb | Bryc1: the TDMA -> GSM transition is already sort of way behind us, so it's the TDMA service which would be the crappy one. On Vivo, unfortunately the CDMA is the good one, and GSM the crappy one, but that's because the migration has just been started (some months ago IIRC) |
| 01:56.30 | ajmitch | BlackBsd: already there, I think |
| 01:56.46 | BlackBsd | i just checked out an ogg :-) nice.. |
| 01:56.46 | ajmitch | not that I've had a chance to try it yet |
| 01:57.01 | BlackBsd | must be some support |
| 01:57.18 | BlackBsd | unless its on the todo list |
| 01:57.27 | BlackBsd | either works for me |
| 02:00.34 | Bryc1 | cesarb: ok, that makes sense to me |
| 02:00.46 | Bryc1 | anyone know if there's a reasonably complete article on the wiki fo todo's? |
| 02:00.47 | *** join/#openmoko ChumleyEX (n=none@cpe-72-178-79-134.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 02:00.52 | Bryc1 | i mean the bugzilla is a beast |
| 02:02.36 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-6.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 02:04.15 | Bryc1 | anyone have a nice simple way to ssh into the qemu session? |
| 02:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 02:05.08 | cesarb | Bryc1: if you are using an emulated NIC with -net user, simply do a redirect on qemu's command line |
| 02:06.52 | Bryc1 | ok |
| 02:06.56 | Bryc1 | that makes sense |
| 02:07.12 | Bryc1 | i was trying to set up a full virtual interface and having some issues |
| 02:08.41 | BlackBsd | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:09.22 | BlackBsd | darn, my isp is throtteling me.. i svn co died |
| 02:09.42 | Aria | Aw, man |
| 02:09.46 | BlackBsd | guess i got to wait an hour before it pickes back up.. |
| 02:09.55 | BlackBsd | dont waste your money on satelite internet btw.. |
| 02:11.00 | Aria | Got that right. |
| 02:11.09 | ckuethe | heh |
| 02:12.43 | ckuethe | sat-net is nice when you're on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean |
| 02:14.03 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 02:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko pomelo_ (i=3af68844@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-8ea27971eec1cd6b) |
| 02:18.16 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 02:21.00 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 02:22.48 | cesarb | roh: take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Explaining_carriers_versus_phones (not yet complete) which I just started |
| 02:22.50 | BlackBsd | so some apps will require kdelibs? |
| 02:23.03 | BlackBsd | so we can make qt apps for the phone? |
| 02:23.21 | cesarb | (people from the US, please help... I'm not sure I explained the confused US situation well enough) |
| 02:24.16 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@CPE001057000aad-CM001225d73c82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:25.11 | cjb_ie | how about: "this is a PDA. if you want to use it as a phone, then you can connect it to a carrier you choose, if that carrier has a 'GSM' network." |
| 02:26.46 | BlackBsd | sounds good to me. |
| 02:27.09 | BlackBsd | if not you can connect to your own lan to access the net.. |
| 02:27.10 | roh | cesarb thanks.. thats already quite comprehensive |
| 02:27.44 | cesarb | roh: I'm finishing the section on the SIM card right now |
| 02:27.55 | ckuethe | "this phone should be usable on any GSM network - just as if you'd purchased an unlocked phone from Motorola or Nokia (for example)" |
| 02:28.10 | Bryc1 | why not just call them "different wireless plugs" |
| 02:28.28 | cjb_ie | Bryc1: nice analogy, but might make people go "huh?" |
| 02:29.33 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=richard@144.90.11.17) |
| 02:29.37 | Bryc1 | "each wireless network has a type of signal that it allows, some only work with gsm and some only work with cdma, it's like a european plug versus an american plug |
| 02:29.44 | Bryc1 | cjb_ie: i see waht you mean |
| 02:29.54 | cjb_ie | Bryc1: some americans have no idea europeans use another plug |
| 02:29.59 | cjb_ie | how about AM versus FM radio |
| 02:30.04 | madewokherd | they don't count |
| 02:30.06 | BlackBsd | lol |
| 02:30.26 | galexande | god, are we explaining things to americans now? |
| 02:30.27 | galexande | what a waste of time |
| 02:30.29 | galexande | :-P |
| 02:30.31 | daMaestro | AM vs FM might be a better analogy |
| 02:30.38 | ckuethe | you can mention that cdma carriers hold you hostage by locking all your data, messages, games, etc. in the phone. |
| 02:30.45 | madewokherd | why is an analogy needed at all? |
| 02:30.49 | ckuethe | with gsm, your data is stored on a movable chip |
| 02:30.59 | ckuethe | nice little freedom of choice point there |
| 02:31.03 | madewokherd | it seemed pretty clear to me |
| 02:31.07 | cjb_ie | ckuethe: only some of your data. |
| 02:31.12 | ckuethe | yeah, i know |
| 02:31.22 | ckuethe | but we're being all fluffy and high-level here |
| 02:31.25 | happycube | but most importantly the phone activation data |
| 02:31.51 | Bryc1 | hmmm... why not just say that it can only hear a certain signal, a gsm signal, and it can't hear a cdma signal |
| 02:32.35 | cjb | because that's an obnoxious anthropomorphism. |
| 02:32.52 | Bryc1 | whys' it obnoxious |
| 02:33.04 | ckuethe | maybe the cable internet vs dsl internet comparison? |
| 02:33.13 | cjb_ie | Bryc1: i guess maybe it seems patronising? |
| 02:33.43 | ckuethe | you have your choice of carriers, but in the end it's just about letting you communicate. |
| 02:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@ool-18b9456b.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 02:34.20 | madewokherd | it does seem patronising; these are not hard concepts |
| 02:34.22 | cjb_ie | how about "to use this phone, you'll need to go to a carrier and buy a sim pack" |
| 02:34.30 | Bryc1 | cjb_ie: maybe a bit but it's not a bad example |
| 02:34.44 | Bryc1 | madewokherd: have you met most of the population? |
| 02:35.06 | madewokherd | do you expect most of the population to read the openmoko wiki? |
| 02:35.28 | ckuethe | http://www.myworldphone.com/faq.html |
| 02:35.28 | galexande | how about "if you still need this page after reading the rest of the wiki, please send a message with "CANCEL" in the body to orders@openmoko.com so a developer can have a phone" |
| 02:35.39 | Bryc1 | only if someone asks and gets directed to it |
| 02:36.21 | Bryc1 | these are phase 1 phones there better not be any consumers getting them, then agian, might be able to get a decent deal on them |
| 02:36.24 | happycube | lol |
| 02:36.45 | galexande | Is quadband all of the gsm bands? |
| 02:36.47 | Bryc1 | oh jeez it does't work |
| 02:36.54 | Bryc1 | i'll give you a 20 and i'll tinker with it |
| 02:37.06 | Bryc1 | galexande: yes i belive so |
| 02:37.11 | bmidgley | quad covers all the voice/gprs bands |
| 02:37.29 | bmidgley | umts/hsdpa muddy the picture |
| 02:38.12 | galexande | of course :) |
| 02:39.00 | Bryc1 | anyone have minimo up and going on the qemu image? |
| 02:39.55 | cesarb | roh: finished |
| 02:40.30 | cesarb | everyone take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Explaining_carriers_versus_phones to see if I didn't write anything wrong |
| 02:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=mike@poolofdespair.net) |
| 02:41.29 | Bryc1 | anyone have a web interface like cgiirc to this chan |
| 02:41.30 | cesarb | galexande: actually, quad band is NOT all the traditional GSM bands... look at the wiki, there are FIVE bands |
| 02:41.47 | cesarb | galexande: but nobody uses the 450MHz one |
| 02:41.58 | cesarb | s/the wiki/wikipedia/ |
| 02:42.14 | mjr | what, 450MHz GSM exists? |
| 02:42.17 | mjr | scary |
| 02:42.25 | mjr | well, even theoretically |
| 02:43.42 | roh | cesarb look really good |
| 02:44.00 | mjr | anyway yeah, seems okay |
| 02:44.07 | cesarb | mjr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands |
| 02:44.14 | holycow | yeah if i remember the map the 5th one is in the south pacific or something like that |
| 02:44.16 | galexande | huh, it would be neat if it would do TDMA AMPS |
| 02:44.21 | holycow | chances are if you are ther eyou won't be needing your cel :) |
| 02:44.22 | cesarb | "There is currently one GSM-400 network in Tanzania" |
| 02:44.31 | cesarb | galexande: definitely NO |
| 02:44.42 | galexande | heh |
| 02:44.43 | cesarb | galexande: I wouldn't buy a phone which could do TDMA/AMPS |
| 02:44.49 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: all you need is a software radio! :) |
| 02:44.50 | cesarb | galexande: it's cloning city with these |
| 02:45.07 | bmidgley | SpeedEvil: and a car battery |
| 02:45.08 | galexande | before merging with cingular, at&t still used that for roaming |
| 02:45.50 | Bryc1 | cesarb: article looks good |
| 02:47.39 | Bryc1 | after i get this phone i'm going to have to pick up one of those pre-paid phones and transfer the sim to the gta01 |
| 02:47.44 | BlackBsd | are their any future visions on using other tookits such as kde or qt? |
| 02:47.51 | Psi | any news if they have been posted yet? |
| 02:47.53 | BlackBsd | as opposed to gtk? |
| 02:47.58 | cjb | BlackBsd: why? |
| 02:48.31 | BlackBsd | no reason, its just i have written alot of qt apps and not many gtk apps |
| 02:49.03 | Bryc1 | i'm still trying to decide if i want to do apps or try and setup initng |
| 02:49.04 | cjb | that sounds like a bad reason to switch. |
| 02:49.15 | *** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@CPE001839cfbf96-CM0014e827107e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:49.22 | jackey | what is going with the shipment |
| 02:49.22 | cesarb | Bryc1: I'm going to get the SIM from my only cell phone and transfer it to the gta01 for development, back to the Razr for normal use, back to the neo for development... It's going to pingpong a lot, I hope I don't wear out the contacts before the neo has working dialing/SMS |
| 02:49.31 | BlackBsd | yes i know, just wondered.. |
| 02:49.43 | jackey | still do not have any feedback about my order, it is about a week now |
| 02:49.43 | galexande | wow, cdma is trippy |
| 02:50.05 | galexande | blackbsd, gtk is much better than qt, you will enjoy it. :) |
| 02:50.15 | Bryc1 | cesarb: haha you atealst have a gsm carrier! i've got verizon so i've gotta pay extra for the dang thing and i've gotta find a pay per use phone that doesn't have a locked sim |
| 02:50.16 | cesarb | cjb: with the neo, it's a good enough reason... you want qt, you can have qt! (come on, it's the main reason I want a neo!) |
| 02:50.32 | BlackBsd | ist c as opposed to c++. not that thats a bad thing |
| 02:50.35 | Bryc1 | galexande: they're different, i wouldn't say one is better than the other |
| 02:50.44 | galexande | bryc, i do not get the impression that there are locked sims in general. |
| 02:50.44 | cesarb | Bryc1: I don't think you will find a locked SIM... it's the phones that are locked, not the SIMs... |
| 02:51.05 | galexande | i will certainly report back if i am unsuccessful at using a tracfone sim with it |
| 02:51.28 | cjb_ie | the confusion arises because phones that are locked to specific sims are referred to as "sim-locked" |
| 02:51.29 | Bryc1 | cesarb: that's heartening news galexande i'll report as well how mine goes |
| 02:51.39 | Bryc1 | i've sitll gotta save up that 450 for the whole kit |
| 02:51.45 | Bryc1 | i with i could buy the jtag board and extras separetly |
| 02:52.10 | cjb | why do you think you need jtag? |
| 02:52.11 | Bryc1 | jackey: relax about the order they're getting flogged |
| 02:52.31 | SpeedEvil | If you don't know exactly why you need JTAG, you don't need ti. Prolly. |
| 02:52.34 | Bryc1 | check this out for some info http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ |
| 02:52.38 | jackey | Brycl, thanks |
| 02:52.53 | jackey | Sean told me to review it, i did |
| 02:52.55 | bmidgley | does anyone have the app in /home/root/DM2/gps ? |
| 02:53.05 | jackey | gps? |
| 02:53.07 | bmidgley | I have a p1 but can't find that binary-only gps driver |
| 02:53.13 | cjb | bmidgley: yes. |
| 02:53.14 | jackey | is it really work? |
| 02:53.19 | SpeedEvil | jackey: yes |
| 02:53.27 | galexande | bmidgley, who'd you have to kill |
| 02:53.29 | jackey | Hi SpeedEvil |
| 02:53.29 | Bryc1 | cjb hardware hacking |
| 02:53.36 | bmidgley | cjb: is it online anywhere? |
| 02:53.37 | Bryc1 | also i can recover any bricked device |
| 02:53.40 | cjb | Bryc1: huh, interesting. like what? |
| 02:53.55 | Bryc1 | jackey: no problem |
| 02:53.59 | cjb | well, I can recover any bricked kernel/NAND without it, and I don't plan on modifying uboot. |
| 02:54.13 | bmidgley | galexande: I was chosen for a p0 but didn't reply to the email on time... ended up with a prototype p1 |
| 02:54.15 | cjb | bmidgley: no, it's not on the web anyway; openmoko employees even told me they can't distribute it to me (!). |
| 02:54.25 | cjb | but I have a copy. |
| 02:54.34 | bmidgley | cjb: hmmm ;) |
| 02:54.42 | Bryc1 | cjb what a bit of magic you have there! |
| 02:55.07 | galexande | cjb, i've analyzed the clues you have provided and determined how you have it: |
| 02:55.09 | galexande | you wrote it!! |
| 02:55.12 | *** join/#openmoko cninja (n=cninja@pcd592106.netvigator.com) |
| 02:55.19 | cjb | heh. faulty logic, I'm afraid :) |
| 02:55.24 | galexande | *sigh* |
| 02:55.43 | Bryc1 | gps shoudl be an open module |
| 02:55.47 | Bryc1 | shouldn't be closed |
| 02:56.13 | Bryc1 | unless i'm completely misaken |
| 02:56.42 | holycow | i think if you read the wiki, this device is as close to open as you will ever get |
| 02:56.57 | holycow | wifi for example can never be open sourced in the u.s. becaues there are laws preventing that |
| 02:57.22 | cjb_ie | at the radio level, maybe not |
| 02:57.30 | cjb_ie | but at some layer of abstraction... |
| 02:58.02 | Bryc1 | holycow: huh? look at the intel wireless to the best of my knowledge it's full gpl |
| 02:58.02 | *** join/#openmoko dirak1 (n=dirakx@190.66.124.158) |
| 02:58.17 | happycube | gpl+firmware |
| 02:58.21 | holycow | not the firmware |
| 02:58.28 | happycube | well, gpl module and binary firmware |
| 02:58.30 | SpeedEvil | Doesn't intel still have a userspace app too? |
| 02:58.31 | Bryc1 | happycube: i know that's the case with atheros and on |
| 02:58.39 | happycube | the userspace app got moved into the firmware |
| 02:58.41 | holycow | its either fully open sourced or its not |
| 02:58.50 | holycow | wifi simply cannot be free in the u.s. |
| 02:58.52 | Bryc1 | happycube: i thought the intel was a hardware not firmware solution |
| 02:58.53 | happycube | there's a difference - intel firmware is in the chip |
| 02:59.05 | holycow | right |
| 02:59.06 | happycube | the atheros hal is a binary-only cpu-side module |
| 02:59.11 | cjb | holycow: my Wavelan card disagrees with you |
| 02:59.25 | cjb | holycow: the gps app is not open source. |
| 02:59.29 | happycube | a lot of the early cards had full flash inside |
| 02:59.34 | cjb | sorry, s/holycow/Bryc1/ |
| 02:59.47 | happycube | they're coming back to that now that it can be put on-die - atheros 6k and presumably newer |
| 03:00.06 | SpeedEvil | I don't see a meaningfull difference between storing the flash on teh main hard-disk/SD, or the device, personally. |
| 03:00.24 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-253-022.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-6.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 03:01.13 | happycube | it's not a huge diff aside from firmware loading |
| 03:01.20 | Bryc1 | cjb what does your wavelan card have to do with this? |
| 03:01.35 | happycube | wavelan had flash firmware, unlike newer cards |
| 03:02.06 | cjb | Bryc1: I can run it without using anything closed-source. |
| 03:02.20 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 03:02.23 | SpeedEvil | Of course you can't. |
| 03:02.32 | cjb | I mean, on the host computer. |
| 03:02.35 | SpeedEvil | Just because you can't touch the closed source doesn't mean it's not there. |
| 03:02.39 | cjb | including downloadable firmware. |
| 03:02.54 | cjb_ie | well, it's abstracted away |
| 03:03.06 | cjb | SpeedEvil: it's subtle. having the closed part be on a ROM makes some free software people happy. |
| 03:03.18 | Bryc1 | SpeedEvil: i don't like binary blobs, but if it's on the hardware that's pretty much ok with me |
| 03:03.27 | cjb | because if *no-one* can modify it, there's no power imbalance. no-one is taking control away from me; they don't have control either. |
| 03:03.30 | holycow | its also okay with rms |
| 03:03.33 | cjb | not true. |
| 03:03.43 | Bryc1 | somethings are closed source, i'd love to have an open solution but if it has to be closed source i'll take as little binary blobs in my kernel as possible |
| 03:03.58 | bmidgley | rms happy? not likely |
| 03:04.04 | holycow | actually yes |
| 03:04.05 | cjb | binary blobs are very not okay with RMS, if they're kept on your computer. |
| 03:04.07 | holycow | he wrote bout it |
| 03:04.09 | jackey | SpeedEvil, we booked a booth in Linux World, if openmoko wants a free place to show, we can provide that. |
| 03:04.13 | holycow | not binary blobs |
| 03:04.17 | holycow | software on chip |
| 03:04.21 | cjb | oh, stuff on ROM. Yes, I know that's okay. |
| 03:04.32 | SpeedEvil | Personally, if there is the option of my hardware being $0.5 cheaper, or having a binary blob on the computer, I'm happy with the binary blob. |
| 03:04.34 | holycow | if its on the chip it self there is no difference between the hardware and software and he is okay with that |
| 03:04.39 | holycow | i think thatas reasonable |
| 03:04.42 | Bryc1 | i feel out of the lop what's an RMS? |
| 03:04.45 | Bryc1 | richard m stallman? |
| 03:04.48 | Arachnid | SpeedEvil: Really? I'd rather have myhardware $0.5 cheaper. |
| 03:04.52 | SpeedEvil | It's a bearded monster. |
| 03:05.05 | holycow | that frees the manufacturer from releasing too many secrets and freely documenting their api's and interfaces |
| 03:05.08 | SpeedEvil | Arachnid: that's what I just said. |
| 03:05.10 | cjb | I'd rather have the firmware on computer, perhaps, because it means I *could* implement free firmware. |
| 03:05.10 | holycow | so everyone wins |
| 03:05.25 | Arachnid | SpeedEvil: No, you said if it was a choice of $0.5 cheaper or a binary blob, you'd take the blob. :) |
| 03:05.39 | SpeedEvil | Err. |
| 03:05.41 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 03:05.43 | holycow | Arachnid, that mostly suggests that you are penny wise dollar poor |
| 03:06.02 | Bryc1 | holycow: don't you mean speedevil? |
| 03:06.06 | Arachnid | holycow: How does having a binary blob on my computer make me better off? |
| 03:06.18 | holycow | lol i'm confused |
| 03:06.19 | SpeedEvil | Or worse off. |
| 03:06.47 | holycow | speedevil has a typo |
| 03:06.53 | cjb | it might help: |
| 03:06.56 | SpeedEvil | You still need a driver, it still needs to init the chip. It's just it's got a few tens of thousands more registers to set first. |
| 03:07.02 | cjb | * you could implement free firmware, and then everyone would have more freedom. |
| 03:07.04 | cjb | it might hurt: |
| 03:07.05 | holycow | generally they put stuff into software to reduce hardware costs |
| 03:07.11 | happycube | the firmware tends to be encrypted |
| 03:07.28 | cjb | * the manufacturer could put out an update that changes what you're allowed to do, and you could unintentionally install it or whatever. |
| 03:07.39 | Bryc1 | shame they couldn't use that firmware to encrypt dvd's or something we'd have that broken in a week |
| 03:07.40 | Bryc1 | lol |
| 03:07.42 | SpeedEvil | cjb: they can do that anyway. |
| 03:07.45 | SpeedEvil | Magic packets. |
| 03:07.55 | cjb | perhaps. |
| 03:08.03 | holycow | i would say it this way: if i can have my hardware 1$ cheaper + blob, versus 1$ more expensive with firmware on hardware, i will pay the extra money |
| 03:08.28 | Bryc1 | i agree with holycow |
| 03:08.32 | Arachnid | I understand - though don't agree with - why companies like nvidia make their drivers closed-source |
| 03:08.39 | cjb | holycow: I haven't decided which I prefer. It's much nicer to be able to just boot Linux on a machine and have the drivers work. |
| 03:08.44 | Arachnid | s/drivers/drivers and firmware/ |
| 03:08.49 | cjb | holycow: so that's a step in favor of no binary blobs |
| 03:08.51 | holycow | also letting them put out features into software lets them be extremely lazy and terrible in quality because they can patch it later |
| 03:08.56 | holycow | with hardware they actually haveto do a good job |
| 03:09.00 | *** part/#openmoko atalist (i=user@gateway/tor/x-3f8e308ee7c5d297) |
| 03:09.02 | Bryc1 | any of you guys got a nice powerful computer? how's the qemu image run for you? |
| 03:09.03 | SpeedEvil | Haha. |
| 03:09.05 | Arachnid | What I don't get is why companies that make products like wireless cards, network cards, etc, do |
| 03:09.28 | holycow | cjb, i try to make a good choice, rms really has a good understanding of the issues imho |
| 03:09.35 | holycow | pretty good goal to shoot for anyway |
| 03:09.48 | SpeedEvil | Arachnid: profit? |
| 03:09.51 | Arachnid | I can't see any real disadvantage to open sourcing their driver code - it's not their main product - and the advantage is that it'll run much mroe easily on other OSes |
| 03:09.53 | Bryc1 | oh lord you guys shoulda seen the first gen quadro fx code |
| 03:09.56 | Bryc1 | that shit was brutal |
| 03:09.58 | Arachnid | SpeedEvil: How do they make more profit from closed-source drivers? |
| 03:10.08 | Arachnid | The drivers themselves don't cost anything |
| 03:10.16 | SpeedEvil | Arachnid: you hadn't completed the second part of that. |
| 03:10.18 | holycow | i agree with arachnid |
| 03:10.23 | holycow | mostly they have nothing to loose |
| 03:10.25 | holycow | and more to gain |
| 03:10.31 | holycow | free support for hardware forever |
| 03:10.41 | holycow | there are odd circumstances tho |
| 03:10.42 | bmidgley | I've never been able to place a call, but now the gsm signal bars are occasionally changing |
| 03:10.45 | bmidgley | something is going on |
| 03:10.46 | holycow | like planned obsolesence |
| 03:10.50 | SpeedEvil | Constraints on rapidly being able to change chips. |
| 03:10.51 | Arachnid | SpeedEvil: ah |
| 03:10.52 | holycow | and pure and simple stupidity |
| 03:11.12 | Arachnid | I understand why graphics card manufacturers make their drivers and firmware closed-source (though I don't like it) |
| 03:11.27 | Arachnid | There's a lot of IP in them, and a very real risk that competitors would analyze it if it were easier to do so |
| 03:11.36 | Arachnid | (Hell, they probably do even with it closed source) |
| 03:11.39 | shrapnel | I'm trying to get the neo/openmoko qemu emulator going according to the instructions at the wiki, but openmoko/flash.sh errors out. |
| 03:11.44 | Arachnid | But that doesn't really apply to other devices |
| 03:12.00 | *** part/#openmoko sagaci2 (n=sagacis@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 03:12.03 | Bryc1 | the drivers aren't to IP particular, but the firmware on the cards is pretty neat |
| 03:12.16 | shrapnel | dumps lots of invalid parameters to 'sleep', like the wrong variable was fed to it. |
| 03:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 03:12.53 | holycow | appearently the argument from nvidia devs is that the cards do a whole lot more than simple video drivers of old |
| 03:13.10 | cjb_ie | the cards do, or the drivers do? |
| 03:13.41 | shrapnel | actually, looks like someone else has the same problem: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU#flash.sh_fails |
| 03:13.43 | Bryc1 | holycow: and that's true to some extent, alot of the time first gen drivers to unlock all pixel pipelines that the hardware supports |
| 03:13.48 | holycow | well my understanding is its the cards that do a whole lot of neat thing, therefore thats their justification for keeping them closed source |
| 03:14.21 | cjb_ie | if the stuff they do is that neat, surely there shouldn't be much of a driver needed |
| 03:14.29 | holycow | although i suspect they do a lot of stuff like intel and amd, which is all chips are built at top speed so ther eis only one real chip design per family |
| 03:14.43 | holycow | all the other speeds are simply failures to get maximum performance |
| 03:14.46 | holycow | so they are locked down |
| 03:15.10 | holycow | i bet nvidia does similar stuff, opening up the drivers might actually let gamer cards get same performance as their pro cards |
| 03:15.30 | Arachnid | The nvidia drivers do a lot of stuff too |
| 03:15.34 | holycow | on windows there used to be driver hacks to enable quadro capability on nvidia cards via software |
| 03:15.40 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@c-67-184-72-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 03:15.41 | Arachnid | Witness the sort of performance improvements you sometimes see with updated drivers |
| 03:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko davi (n=davi@80.30.83.239) |
| 03:16.11 | Bryc1 | ahh well i can't go into too much more detail about nvidia drivers but yes there have been utils to "corporate overclock" bottom line cards to their top line brothers specs without a problem, mostly internally of course |
| 03:16.19 | Arachnid | They essentially implement compilers from directx/opengl to the native assembly the pixel shaders use on the card, for example |
| 03:16.42 | Bryc1 | the only real driver tweaking around for people anymore is OmegaDrivers and the like |
| 03:17.24 | Bryc1 | which is still usually an abstratcion for the underlying stream processors |
| 03:17.48 | holycow | well the performance of these things is so huge these days that you know getting 5 fps gain really isn't worth it |
| 03:18.04 | holycow | you would of noticed it on a 400mhz machine but not on a 2.8 ghz one |
| 03:18.19 | Bryc1 | very true, but back with the geforce mx series you coould take a 420 (bottom line) and make it compete with the Ti4400 no problem |
| 03:18.26 | Arachnid | I've seen 40% FPS improvements in some scenarios with updated drivers |
| 03:18.42 | Arachnid | Not talking about overclocking hacks or anything, just optimisations they've made to the drivers |
| 03:18.56 | shrapnel | the final flash step of the qemu build also seems to fail if I put a hard-coded sleep time of up to 10 minutes in the flash.sh script. |
| 03:19.10 | Bryc1 | Arachnid: that's usually just unlocking of all the availalable hardware pipelines and fully utilizing the bus width |
| 03:20.47 | Bryc1 | and then optomizations for shader language as well |
| 03:20.49 | holycow | Bryc1, lol, funny you mention that i still run dual 19" monis off of a ti4200 |
| 03:20.55 | Bryc1 | lol me too! |
| 03:21.11 | Bryc1 | well not quite |
| 03:21.14 | Bryc1 | i push a 17 and a 19 |
| 03:21.14 | *** join/#openmoko jadams (n=jadams@rrcs-67-78-224-48.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 03:21.19 | Bryc1 | an old nec and a newer acer |
| 03:21.37 | Qwell | who was having the flash.sh problems? |
| 03:21.42 | shrapnel | Qwell: that'd be me |
| 03:21.47 | Bryc1 | alrighty i've been skirting the edges of my nda a bit closely, so on that note I'll leave you to your nights and i'm sure i'll be back soon to bug you guys |
| 03:21.55 | Qwell | shrapnel: ls -l `which sh` |
| 03:22.04 | Qwell | oh, wait, nm, it explicitly calls bash |
| 03:22.17 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-6.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 03:22.25 | shrapnel | Qwell: indeed |
| 03:22.29 | jadams | is there a log of this chan somewhere? |
| 03:22.35 | Qwell | ~logs |
| 03:22.36 | apt | it has been said that logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 03:22.42 | jadams | hurrah |
| 03:23.11 | Bryc1 | holycow, cjb Arachnid cesarb, Goodnight! |
| 03:23.22 | holycow | lata |
| 03:23.34 | *** part/#openmoko Bryc1 (n=bryce@nj-71-48-102-108.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 03:25.56 | Qwell | shrapnel: $uboot_image is empty |
| 03:26.24 | Qwell | which means that $2 in most_recent isn't being set |
| 03:27.09 | shrapnel | Qwell: aha |
| 03:27.16 | Qwell | What does it say for |
| 03:27.30 | Qwell | "Using '<here>' as bootloader."? |
| 03:28.44 | shrapnel | Qwell: kernel/rootfs/bootloader all empty. =( |
| 03:29.00 | Qwell | grep _wildcard openmoko/env |
| 03:29.07 | Qwell | are any of those set? |
| 03:29.24 | Qwell | actually, you aren't running flash.sh from inside the openmoko dir, are you? |
| 03:29.30 | Qwell | ie; you aren't doing ./flash.sh, I hope |
| 03:29.36 | shrapnel | Qwell: nope |
| 03:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 03:29.46 | shrapnel | Qwell: looks like my download.sh is failing... |
| 03:30.02 | Qwell | how are you calling them? |
| 03:30.22 | shrapnel | Qwell: ./openmoko/download.sh |
| 03:30.37 | Qwell | Do you have an env file in openmoko/ ? |
| 03:31.08 | shrapnel | Qwell: I may be missing download.sh deps... like lynx. |
| 03:31.30 | Qwell | if your env doesn't have and _wildcard lines in it, then something is wrong with your checkout... |
| 03:31.34 | linux_galore | buy a Dell Quad Core E6850 machine now (super fast 1333mhz FSB) for US$299 |
| 03:32.02 | linux_galore | Sorry Intel E6850 |
| 03:32.24 | linux_galore | 3Ghz cpu |
| 03:32.30 | shrapnel | Qwell: hmm, I don't see any _wildcard-like entries in openmoko/env |
| 03:32.42 | Qwell | shrapnel: svn info openmoko/ |
| 03:32.49 | shrapnel | Qwell: er, I'm blind, they're there. =) |
| 03:32.51 | linux_galore | AMD is now in deep doo doo |
| 03:32.52 | Qwell | ok |
| 03:33.17 | Qwell | and do any files matching those wildcards exist in the openmoko dir? I imagine not, if the download.sh is failing |
| 03:33.39 | shrapnel | Qwell: nope |
| 03:34.00 | shrapnel | Qwell: looks like it's trying for lynx, which I don't have installed just yet. |
| 03:34.26 | Qwell | that'd do it |
| 03:35.28 | shrapnel | Qwell: it'll be a few minutes, gentoo system. thanks for the critical thinking skills. |
| 03:38.02 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Modular_phone]] [[Talk:Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Explaining_carriers_versus_phones]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]] [[User_talk:Kevinh]] [[User_talk:Historybuff]] [[User:Historybuff]] [[Talk:Modular_phone]] [[Input_Method]] |
| 03:38.40 | shrapnel | hey, download.sh downloads things now. =) |
| 03:43.23 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 03:47.25 | Qwell | shrapnel: might want to update the wiki |
| 03:48.14 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 03:48.36 | shrapnel | Qwell: guess I should. I'll have to create an account. |
| 03:51.44 | shrapnel | there. bugmenot to the rescue. =) |
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| 04:28.50 | ferric | crap. my stupid an8 sli motherboard died. |
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| 04:43.36 | sandos | ~/topic |
| 04:44.04 | sandos | "Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later" - that sounds very likely. |
| 04:44.05 | sandos | ;) |
| 04:44.24 | sandos | couldn you simply replace it with "will ship sometime" |
| 04:44.31 | doc|home | ... maybe |
| 04:46.49 | xkr47 | shipping any century now |
| 04:46.50 | xkr47 | :-) |
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| 05:38.22 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] |
| 05:38.53 | cibomahto | aloril: any chance you could modify the script to add a hyperlink to the updated pages? |
| 05:39.34 | aloril | cibomahto: it will make lines much longer, just bookmark http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges |
| 05:39.46 | bassinboy | anyone here built a car PC? |
| 05:40.11 | aloril | cibomahto: if there are many changes, its not even listing all of them ;-) |
| 05:40.38 | cibomahto | aloril: cool, thanks for the link, and for running the update script |
| 05:41.18 | aloril | np |
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| 05:50.40 | linux_galore | this is worth a laugh, looks like he doesnt like the iPhone http://duggmirror.com/apple/The_iPhone_is_a_piece_of_shit_and_so_is_your_face/?u=iphone |
| 05:53.07 | quinton | bassinboy, i haven't |
| 05:54.31 | quinton | bassinboy, but i've seen a video podcast where the guy explains how he did it, http://infonomicon.org/infotv.php |
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| 06:01.02 | bassinboy | Thanks quinton |
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| 06:14.58 | CM | cesarb: Nice work on the carrier page :) |
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| 06:57.30 | ScaredyCat | ~botsnack |
| 06:57.30 | apt | ScaredyCat: thanks |
| 06:57.50 | khaije1 | any rumors about the phones that aren't announced yet? |
| 06:57.51 | aloril | khaije1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 06:58.41 | aloril | hehe, that is not good link |
| 06:58.43 | aloril | counter |
| 06:58.43 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 14:30:38 (0.605±0.6 days) (1750;248) |
| 06:58.57 | ScaredyCat | there's bugger all information khaije1 ... we're all waiting for something... |
| 06:59.08 | khaije1 | geez, how many bots are tehre here.... |
| 06:59.18 | ScaredyCat | only 1 |
| 06:59.48 | aloril | yeah, not much information, mostly just guesses |
| 06:59.53 | ScaredyCat | unless you count the fact that I'm still half asleep, so am behaving like one |
| 06:59.59 | khaije1 | aloril why did you respond to my question so quick? |
| 07:00.17 | aloril | cyborg ;-) |
| 07:00.18 | ScaredyCat | automatic khaije1 - he's a bot and a real person |
| 07:00.23 | khaije1 | hehe |
| 07:00.36 | khaije1 | like lando's human PDA |
| 07:01.19 | ScaredyCat | ... but I guess it must be night in ca, which means nothing is shipping? |
| 07:01.33 | ScaredyCat | s/?// |
| 07:01.49 | cibomahto | yeah, its midnight now |
| 07:02.09 | khaije1 | the gta001 is cool, but i don't mind waiting to see what comes down the pipe |
| 07:03.01 | khaije1 | openmoko is definitely the way to do though (speaking as a longtime verizon customer) |
| 07:03.51 | sandos | hah, that replace-stuff is awesome ;) |
| 07:03.53 | ScaredyCat | it wouldn't actually suprise me if there weren't any in ca... |
| 07:04.18 | ScaredyCat | nd that FIC were just getting numbers before strting the short production run |
| 07:04.31 | khaije1 | apt: good bot |
| 07:04.31 | apt | khaije1: :) |
| 07:05.01 | ScaredyCat | it will be interesting to see how other phone manufs. react |
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| 07:05.38 | sandos | not at all most likely. Thouygh both Motorola have atleast toyed iwth linux, but I think Nokia is the most "open" of them |
| 07:05.41 | sandos | with the N800 an all |
| 07:05.55 | sandos | s/Motorola/Motorola and Nokia/ |
| 07:06.03 | khaije1 | nevertheless its very smart onFIC's part |
| 07:07.27 | sandos | I was thinking today I need to plan a trip to the Us or wherever the phones will ship from to avoid the taxes and shipping costs.. since they will likely be 100% or more of the price |
| 07:08.01 | sandos | the customs are not very cheap |
| 07:08.16 | khaije1 | sandos: what locale are you speaking from? |
| 07:08.27 | sandos | would be awesmoe if OM could eventually ship from within the EU. I guess they would have to pay customs to actually get stuff into EU to begin with though... |
| 07:08.30 | sandos | Sweden |
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| 07:11.52 | khaije1 | so whats the best news feed to subscribe to relating to this project/company? |
| 07:12.14 | CM | khaije1: planet.openmoko.org is a good start |
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| 07:12.23 | khaije1 | k |
| 07:12.29 | CM | Then you have a lot to chose from on lists.openmoko.org |
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| 07:13.17 | CM | sandos: Jag har beställt en redan. 80 dollar att skicka, och surt om det blir tull på det också.. |
| 07:14.23 | sandos | det är väl tull på allt? |
| 07:14.35 | sandos | iaf från USA.. såvida du inte har tur eller något. |
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| 07:15.24 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:16.13 | CM | sandos: Jag hoppas på tur, och att de märker paketet med "Development sample" |
| 07:16.49 | sandos | mmm |
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| 07:38.23 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Modular_phone]] [[Neo1973/de]] [[Distance_Measuring]] [[Category:Unimplemented]] [[VoiceText]] [[Template:Unimplemented]] [[Template:Improve]] [[Voice_Mailbox]] [[Translation]] [[Freshman_todo]] [[Bluetooth_powered_Multi-SIM_support]] and other changes |
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| 08:04.55 | slytherin | /msh nickserv help |
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| 08:21.22 | bedboi | hi there. |
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| 08:35.16 | cninja | is there any updates on the shipping of the mythical Neo1973? |
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| 08:41.08 | ScaredyCat | cninja: nope... :'( |
| 08:41.34 | cninja | awww :( can't wait to get my hands on the precious |
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| 08:41.59 | mafeu | cninja: I cooled down on that issue a little bit. Now I tell myself, it's like a Debian release: It ships when it is ready.... ;-) |
| 08:42.21 | ScaredyCat | except.. this wont be ready when it ships ;) |
| 08:42.37 | cninja | well gotta admire the positive attitude :D |
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| 08:43.10 | mafeu | ScaredyCat: well, true :-) |
| 08:44.01 | ScaredyCat | mokomakefile buggered again? |
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| 08:52.50 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: It was fine yesterday. |
| 08:53.11 | ScaredyCat | *** Your name cannot be determined from your system services (gecos). |
| 08:53.11 | ScaredyCat | *** You would need to set GIT_AUTHOR_NAME and GIT_COMMITTER_NAME |
| 08:53.28 | ScaredyCat | .. which is rather dumb... since i'm not commitng anythign |
| 08:53.50 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 08:58.32 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: Strange. |
| 09:01.14 | ScaredyCat | exporting them fixes it, but it shouldn;t be there, should it.. |
| 09:02.38 | CM | ScaredyCat: I just updated, ran setup and built the flash image |
| 09:02.46 | CM | No issues at all |
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| 09:10.13 | ScaredyCat | built ok, after exporting gunk for those GIT_.... |
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| 09:25.33 | SpeedEvil | I'm doing this too much. |
| 09:25.39 | SpeedEvil | I just woke up. |
| 09:26.10 | SpeedEvil | I was dreaming of someone asking a question about X over bluetooth on the neo. |
| 09:26.44 | CM | SpeedEvil: Hehe.. Scary ;) |
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| 09:27.42 | jeddy3 | :) |
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| 09:35.12 | cesarb | morning all |
| 09:35.13 | cesarb | counter |
| 09:35.14 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 13:12:23 (0.550±0.6 days) (1751;248) |
| 09:38.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Summer_of_code/fr]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Summer_of_code]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[UI_Improvements/fr]] [[Mokopedia]] [[Modular_phone]] |
| 09:40.30 | Stephmw | mornin' |
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| 10:24.40 | ewanm89_laptop | aloril: Can your scripts run in more than one channel? |
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| 10:25.04 | aloril | ewanm89_laptop: why? |
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| 10:26.19 | ewanm89_laptop | aloril: It's hoped people would migrate to #openmoko-dev |
| 10:27.29 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.105.7) |
| 10:28.18 | SpeedEvil | Hoped by who? |
| 10:28.36 | Stephmw | there's a -dev? |
| 10:28.51 | SpeedEvil | Apparently, it's where the deviants hang out. |
| 10:29.31 | aloril | there is still #openmoko-devel though, but its closed |
| 10:29.48 | MarcelPentium | personne ne parle francais? |
| 10:29.48 | aloril | MarcelPentium: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:30.04 | *** part/#openmoko MarcelPentium (n=marcel@82.253.175.44) |
| 10:30.31 | Stephmw | man, he didn't really wait |
| 10:30.34 | Stephmw | I hate that. |
| 10:30.34 | ewanm89_laptop | aloril: openmoko-devel is for employees only as they talk business stratagy and stuff under NDAs. |
| 10:30.52 | aloril | ok |
| 10:31.38 | ewanm89_laptop | Yeah, migrate now, rather than in october when we need a user channel. |
| 10:31.50 | *** join/#openmoko Husare_ (n=AD@stgt-590e445a.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 10:32.29 | Stephmw | ewanm89_laptop: I mean, there's bound to be a few french speakers in here... but by god, I wish people would be patient |
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| 10:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko MarcelPentium (n=marcel@82.253.175.44) |
| 10:34.55 | *** part/#openmoko MarcelPentium (n=marcel@82.253.175.44) |
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| 10:35.08 | ewanm89_laptop | Stephmw: I'm trying to avoid a rush, so I was thinking get the bot/scripts in both for now, hence why I asked aloril |
| 10:35.20 | Stephmw | ewanm89_laptop: fair enough |
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| 10:51.37 | ScaredyCat | credit card has been charged |
| 10:52.01 | ScaredyCat | s/has/has not/ |
| 10:52.59 | jgm | <sigh> |
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| 10:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko cel (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 10:56.51 | cel | hi |
| 10:57.58 | ferric | hi |
| 10:58.59 | woglinde | yo |
| 10:59.43 | Uatec | lol |
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| 11:00.22 | pitux | hi |
| 11:00.29 | cel | somebody got news about shipping? |
| 11:00.34 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 11:00.54 | ewon | cel: don't mention the war |
| 11:01.21 | cel | war?? |
| 11:01.34 | cel | did i miss somethig? |
| 11:02.40 | bedboi | hey guys, have you seen this: http://duggmirror.com/apple/The_iPhone_is_a_piece_of_shit_and_so_is_your_face/?u=iphone |
| 11:02.43 | bedboi | it's damn funny |
| 11:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.187.73.203) |
| 11:03.12 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 11:04.06 | ScaredyCat | cel: it's a Flowery Towels reference... |
| 11:04.06 | woglinde | lol |
| 11:04.12 | woglinde | really funny |
| 11:04.15 | ScaredyCat | Faulty Towers |
| 11:04.27 | ScaredyCat | "you started it" |
| 11:04.32 | ScaredyCat | "no we didn't" |
| 11:04.41 | ScaredyCat | "yes you did, you invated poland" |
| 11:04.46 | ScaredyCat | ded |
| 11:05.08 | ScaredyCat | it's a funny episode, if a little cringe-worthy |
| 11:05.31 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.187.73.203) |
| 11:05.48 | ScaredyCat | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MbeT7_ARm8 |
| 11:05.52 | bedboi | i like very much the comparative table |
| 11:06.02 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-183-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:08.39 | cel | i'm NOT german |
| 11:09.30 | ScaredyCat | no... |
| 11:09.41 | ScaredyCat | but that's where 'don't mention the war' comes form |
| 11:09.43 | ScaredyCat | from |
| 11:10.07 | ScaredyCat | it has come to mean don't talk about something that upsets people |
| 11:10.39 | Stephmw | instaflame |
| 11:10.42 | cel | sorry i´ll never ask again ;) |
| 11:11.36 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 11:14.46 | tuukkah | hmm how do the n800 and neo formfactors compare? |
| 11:17.40 | tuukkah | we're at 184 grams, they're 206 |
| 11:18.23 | tuukkah | we're 121x62x19 mm, they're 75x144x13 mm |
| 11:18.23 | cjb_ie | and the iphone? |
| 11:18.42 | tuukkah | that's in the wiki: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 11:19.22 | bedboi | tuukkah: i got the n800, btw it has a good CPU |
| 11:19.37 | bedboi | i'm happy with its hardware. |
| 11:19.43 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 11:19.48 | ScaredyCat | expansys hav them at 70 squibs |
| 11:19.51 | Qwell[] | my friend asked me yesterday why the Neo doesn't have like a 2ghz processor in it |
| 11:19.57 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 11:19.57 | tuukkah | bedboi, i just borrowed one and i'm happy the neo is smaller :-) |
| 11:20.00 | woglinde | lol |
| 11:20.00 | Qwell[] | I called him an idiot, and laughed |
| 11:20.03 | bedboi | Qwell: LOL |
| 11:20.08 | ScaredyCat | hehe |
| 11:20.21 | Qwell[] | "Do you *really* want a phone with a fan in your pocket?" |
| 11:20.25 | bedboi | lol |
| 11:20.30 | Qwell[] | "and a 3" heatsink?" |
| 11:20.34 | SpeedEvil | You could dual-use the fan. |
| 11:20.35 | Qwell[] | "...no...I guess not" |
| 11:20.38 | SpeedEvil | It could also fly. |
| 11:20.45 | ScaredyCat | and the battery life of a gnat |
| 11:20.49 | Qwell[] | ScaredyCat: yeah... |
| 11:20.52 | Qwell[] | if that |
| 11:21.01 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: it's a sweat side-effect |
| 11:21.12 | ScaredyCat | eew |
| 11:21.35 | SpeedEvil | Gnats have decent life, compared to many mobiles. |
| 11:21.54 | ewon | my brother in law asked if it wouldn't be better for the moko to run windows. I told him he's not allowed be married to my sister anymore |
| 11:21.59 | bedboi | anyone has any figures about Neo battery life? |
| 11:22.10 | SpeedEvil | The answer to almost all software questions is 'no'. There is very little working software - the dialer just about works. |
| 11:22.11 | Qwell[] | bedboi: somewhere between 1 hour and 1 week |
| 11:22.12 | bedboi | ewon: that's a good point |
| 11:22.20 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: tehre is a page in the wiki. |
| 11:22.21 | bedboi | Qwell[]: ah, cool. |
| 11:22.23 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 11:22.28 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: thanks |
| 11:22.36 | SpeedEvil | Much of teh powersaving software has not been written. |
| 11:22.39 | Qwell[] | there could be a great deal of tuning for the battery, from what I read |
| 11:22.49 | cjb_ie | ewon: imagine if he reproduces, the nonsense he'll fill your nieces/nephews' heads with! |
| 11:23.12 | ewon | madness! |
| 11:23.19 | ScaredyCat | now, when I get emails, I check them immediately... just in case it's my cc confirmation... it's sad really |
| 11:23.29 | SpeedEvil | For example, when 'idle' - screen on, but not doing anything - you can drop the processor down to 40Mhz or so, saving |
| 11:23.36 | bedboi | Qwell[]: i have some plans with power management at user space, but i need time. damn. |
| 11:23.37 | SpeedEvil | Maybe 300mW |
| 11:24.08 | ScaredyCat | anyone looked at suspend2's keep mode as a way to reduct boot times |
| 11:24.10 | *** join/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 11:24.11 | SpeedEvil | That _was_ generally with a FPU though. |
| 11:24.13 | ewon | the 3d acceleration in GTA02 has promise |
| 11:24.17 | ewon | portable duke3d :D |
| 11:24.24 | *** part/#openmoko pitux (n=sonny@i05m-213-44-25-207.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 11:24.28 | jsmanrique | hello |
| 11:24.29 | Qwell[] | oh, does this ARM they're using have an MMU? |
| 11:24.32 | ewon | SpeedEvil: true |
| 11:24.33 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 11:24.36 | woglinde | qwell yes |
| 11:24.36 | Qwell[] | excellent |
| 11:24.40 | Qwell[] | mmu-less dev *sucks* |
| 11:24.41 | jsmanrique | who is working in openmoko web browser? |
| 11:24.59 | woglinde | qwell I dont know many arm devices without mmu |
| 11:25.00 | zecke | no one :) |
| 11:25.10 | woglinde | zecke psst |
| 11:25.11 | Qwell[] | woglinde: I'm not a hardware guy :D |
| 11:25.12 | ScaredyCat | jsmanrique: you ? |
| 11:25.14 | SpeedEvil | qwell: Software-wise, think pretty much a pentium-100 laptop, with a modern X/GTK installed. |
| 11:25.19 | tuukkah | http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/3191-Apple-iPhone-vs-OpenMoko-vs-nokia-770-vs-Nokia-800-1- |
| 11:25.24 | Qwell[] | SpeedEvil: yeah, I know |
| 11:25.38 | ewon | tuukkah: is that a complete URL? |
| 11:25.42 | ScaredyCat | the 770/800 aren't phones,... |
| 11:25.55 | *** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@achn-4db499c7.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 11:26.05 | woglinde | voip |
| 11:26.19 | tuukkah | ewon, it is |
| 11:26.22 | jsmanrique | ScaredyCat: that would be difficult... I don't know much more about mozilla embedded or gtk-webcore |
| 11:26.55 | Qwell[] | bah, web browsers... throw links2 on there with the framebuffer mode :) |
| 11:27.05 | Qwell[] | put a pretty xterm around it, and call it a day |
| 11:27.11 | tuukkah | ScaredyCat, but if i have a phone in my pocket or backpack, then they are comparable |
| 11:27.12 | SpeedEvil | FF will sort-of-work |
| 11:27.12 | jsmanrique | :-) |
| 11:27.29 | Qwell[] | erm, elinks? whatever |
| 11:27.32 | SpeedEvil | I'm at the moment running on the same RAM as the neo on my lappy, and have 16 tabs open. |
| 11:27.33 | woglinde | opera mini works |
| 11:27.43 | Qwell[] | woglinde: opera isn't open source though, right? |
| 11:27.54 | jsmanrique | woglinde: works or should it work? |
| 11:27.54 | ScaredyCat | doesn't mean you can't use it |
| 11:27.58 | woglinde | works |
| 11:28.05 | Qwell[] | no, but that means it wouldn't be in a release build, right? |
| 11:28.10 | jsmanrique | woglinde: does neo have j2me? |
| 11:28.13 | woglinde | with phoneme feature and qt-fb support |
| 11:28.25 | jsmanrique | ah |
| 11:28.26 | woglinde | jsmanrique yes it will |
| 11:28.35 | SpeedEvil | The answer to almost all software questions is 'no'. There is very little working software - the dialer just about works. |
| 11:28.41 | jsmanrique | ok, it will.. so it doesn't have it yet |
| 11:28.49 | SpeedEvil | What may arrive is a totally different question. |
| 11:28.50 | jsmanrique | SpeedEvil: I see |
| 11:29.24 | jsmanrique | SpeedEvil: I hope that what will arrive would be mature enough ;-) |
| 11:29.35 | SpeedEvil | It will, come 'October'. |
| 11:29.40 | jsmanrique | yes |
| 11:30.06 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 11:30.25 | jsmanrique | seeing how mobile web is growing, I think that a "decent" mobile browser is needed.. ok, opera-mini is right (maybe) |
| 11:30.59 | CM | jsmanrique: There's a reason zecke said "no one :)"... ;) |
| 11:31.05 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 11:31.21 | woglinde | http://www.moblin.org/ |
| 11:31.39 | CM | woglinde: I saw that one on linuxdevices this morning |
| 11:31.46 | woglinde | cm jupps |
| 11:31.58 | CM | Guess there could come some good stuff from it eventually :) |
| 11:32.21 | jsmanrique | I have blogged about neo 1973, not being a developer, it is my way about supporting this great project |
| 11:32.38 | woglinde | cm hm yes now we have nokia with maemo, palmsource, qtopia, moblin, openmoko |
| 11:35.33 | DukeOfUrl | any new information about neo shipments? |
| 11:35.55 | cel | it was not me ;-) |
| 11:36.20 | woglinde | duke no |
| 11:38.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Summer_of_code/fr]] [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC]] [[P1_Owners]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Summer_of_code]] [[Talk:Modular_phone]] |
| 11:40.17 | Qwell[] | Have people that have ordered a Neo already had their cards charged? |
| 11:40.24 | ewon | we just got a new coffee machine. a proper one. and it has a serial port on the back, labelled "SERVICE" |
| 11:40.32 | woglinde | qwell noone |
| 11:40.35 | Qwell[] | ewon: put netbsd on it |
| 11:40.58 | ewon | Qwell[]: I think attaching a webserver to it might be an idea :) |
| 11:42.02 | ScaredyCat | ewon: sweet... |
| 11:42.08 | ScaredyCat | add afoxboard to it... |
| 11:42.22 | ScaredyCat | s/afoxboard/a foxboard/ |
| 11:42.38 | ScaredyCat | Qwell[]: no.. it seems |
| 11:43.05 | ScaredyCat | and some level sensors... |
| 11:44.08 | Stephmw | woglinde: have you had a go xcompiling |
| 11:44.10 | Stephmw | ? |
| 11:44.43 | *** join/#openmoko mafeu (i=3ece5d43@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-763fc6a6f3d974b9) |
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| 11:48.53 | woglinde | stephmw no I learned yesterday and will today |
| 11:49.04 | woglinde | tomorrow I will work further on it |
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| 11:56.13 | PBeck | hi |
| 11:56.26 | woglinde | hi pbeck |
| 11:56.38 | PBeck | hi woglinde |
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| 12:17.32 | TRIsoft | 1Z3020409142598850 |
| 12:17.33 | TRIsoft | 1Z3020409142598850 |
| 12:17.42 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 12:17.50 | Qwell[] | umm, okay |
| 12:18.33 | *** join/#openmoko SBKch (n=SBKch@088156224081.sta.vectranet.pl) |
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| 12:19.04 | Fatal | that's interesting |
| 12:20.12 | SpeedEvil | For integration into mokopedia |
| 12:20.17 | SpeedEvil | (or whatever it's called) |
| 12:20.25 | Kensan | SPeedEvil: this might get you started: http://tools.wikimedia.de/~leon/stats/wikicharts/index.php |
| 12:20.34 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 12:20.39 | SpeedEvil | 1000 is really too little though. |
| 12:20.56 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: i wonder what percentage of hits those 10000 actually represent though. |
| 12:21.33 | cjb_ie | don't the just use mediawiki? which uses mysql |
| 12:23.59 | SpeedEvil | I mean - the stats database. |
| 12:26.10 | cjb_ie | well, mediawiki has SpecialPages:PopularPages |
| 12:26.19 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: You can export to csv. |
| 12:26.41 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 12:26.48 | cjb_ie | you could look at the source for that to figure out what you ned |
| 12:27.28 | Kensan | cjb_ie: I doubt that you there is "public" access to the database backend. |
| 12:28.00 | SpeedEvil | Actually - it doesn't. |
| 12:28.13 | SpeedEvil | (PopularPages) |
| 12:28.46 | cjb_ie | Kensan: indeed, but one might be able to put together a simple query and get a wikipedian to run it for one? |
| 12:29.02 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: i'm looking at one right now. |
| 12:31.56 | SpeedEvil | Special:PopularPages don't exist. |
| 12:32.47 | cjb_ie | *shrug* maybe they've removed it from wikipedia's install |
| 12:32.53 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:32.57 | SpeedEvil | Probable. |
| 12:33.00 | *** join/#openmoko ar1 (i=root@gateway/tor/x-35f998fd4a0cf92a) |
| 12:33.04 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: you can get top 5001 in CSV-format from wikicharts. |
| 12:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Most of the stats pages seem to be from 2004 or earlier with stubs |
| 12:33.11 | SpeedEvil | 1000 |
| 12:33.14 | SpeedEvil | AIUI |
| 12:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 12:33.15 | SpeedEvil | 1001 |
| 12:33.25 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: although only per month. Nope I just tried. It's 5001 |
| 12:33.31 | SpeedEvil | It goes back to 100 hits over 1001 |
| 12:33.43 | SpeedEvil | I must be doing something wrong. |
| 12:34.25 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: see http://tools.wikimedia.de/~leon/stats/wikicharts/index.php?lang=en&wiki=enwiki&ns=all&limit=5001&month=07%2F2007&mode=csv |
| 12:34.49 | SpeedEvil | http://hemlock.knams.wikimedia.org/~leon/stats/wikicharts/index.php?wiki=enwiki&ns=articles&limit=2000&mode=view |
| 12:34.51 | SpeedEvil | reports 100 |
| 12:35.01 | SpeedEvil | http://hemlock.knams.wikimedia.org/~leon/stats/wikicharts/index.php?wiki=enwiki&ns=articles&limit=1000&mode=view |
| 12:35.02 | SpeedEvil | reports 1000 |
| 12:35.16 | SpeedEvil | looking. |
| 12:35.17 | *** part/#openmoko jY (n=Jy@vtb2.fxserver.com) |
| 12:35.40 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: "# WikiCharts,Entries:5001,Month:07/2007" |
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| 12:36.50 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 12:36.55 | SpeedEvil | It gives it up only in CSV |
| 12:36.56 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: however, mediawiki definitely has that functionality, so installing one somewhere to look at might be instructive. |
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| 12:37.18 | SpeedEvil | if you ask for it in html it breaks |
| 12:37.39 | SpeedEvil | I suspect that it was pulled for speed reasons. |
| 12:38.28 | SpeedEvil | I do have some doubts as to that data - only 62000 hits to the front page a day? |
| 12:38.31 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 12:38.53 | cjb_ie | i very, very rarely hit the front page. |
| 12:39.51 | cjb_ie | i generally type 'en.', browser autocompletes that with the url to some random entry i've recently visited, which i then edit |
| 12:40.04 | cjb_ie | or i google for whatever site:wikipedia.org |
| 12:41.53 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 12:44.16 | jgm | cjb_ie: you use firefox? |
| 12:44.31 | cjb_ie | jgm: yup, mostly on ubuntu |
| 12:44.43 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 12:44.49 | jgm | You should try keywords then, very classy |
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| 12:45.33 | jgm | I think that firefox comes with a keyword search for Wikipedia already, try putting 'wp test' in to the location bar (without quotes) and see if it work |
| 12:45.38 | jgm | s/work/works/ |
| 12:45.43 | SpeedEvil | IIRC 2 only |
| 12:45.57 | SpeedEvil | s/./IIRC FF 2 only/ |
| 12:46.01 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 12:47.26 | jgm | Think keywords are in FF 1 as well, maybe only 1.5 but they've been there for a while now |
| 12:47.46 | tuukkah | bah, i just google for whatever i want to see and it's the task for google to put the wikipedia results first %-) |
| 12:48.08 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@blfd-4db504d4.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 12:49.03 | cjb_ie | sometimes i do that too. |
| 12:49.51 | cjb_ie | ooh nice. think konqueror did that a few year back, only trouble it was konqueror. |
| 12:50.34 | jgm | tuukkah: yeah but this way cuts down on mouse movement, which is the main reason that I use them |
| 12:51.10 | Fatal | you touch someones mouse when you use the computer o_O |
| 12:51.22 | batti112 | does anyone know more about the shipping of the neo's? |
| 12:52.11 | tuukkah | jgm, that's a good point |
| 12:52.12 | SpeedEvil | batti112: Those that knew have been killed. |
| 12:52.24 | batti112 | :) |
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| 12:52.37 | SpeedEvil | Seriously - nothing. |
| 12:52.47 | tuukkah | well, we now know the applicable "or" part is "later" |
| 12:54.57 | SpeedEvil | cjb: seems an artifact. The previous months have >2.5 million views/day |
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| 12:59.08 | *** part/#openmoko p0rg1 (n=jans@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 13:02.00 | ScaredyCat | how long do pickled onions keep ? |
| 13:02.43 | SpeedEvil | Also - if wikipedia stats are to be believed: 25% is inside 500 articles, 50% is inside 1500 articles, 75% is under 4000 |
| 13:02.51 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: depends on how pickled. |
| 13:03.00 | ScaredyCat | asda ones... |
| 13:03.09 | SpeedEvil | Pickled with lots and lots of salt, a _long_ time. |
| 13:03.14 | noidd | most pickled things last forever |
| 13:03.23 | SpeedEvil | Proper pickling. |
| 13:03.30 | SpeedEvil | Not modern 'reduced salt' stuff |
| 13:03.30 | ScaredyCat | i mean after they're opened |
| 13:03.34 | noidd | that was the purpose of pickling after all |
| 13:03.38 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: observe teh label. |
| 13:03.56 | ScaredyCat | I did, but I ate 6 first.. |
| 13:04.02 | SpeedEvil | Multiply by a factor of how picky you are. |
| 13:04.03 | ScaredyCat | seemed ok... |
| 13:04.09 | SpeedEvil | In general. |
| 13:04.18 | ScaredyCat | 7 months is fine then ;) |
| 13:04.20 | sandos | I never observe the label. I am using the theory that the makers wants people to throw away stuff that is not yet bad, and I always take the label with a big grain of salt |
| 13:04.23 | SpeedEvil | Vegetables don't tend to go bad in lethal ways and taste OK. |
| 13:04.47 | ScaredyCat | I just found them in th fridge... |
| 13:05.06 | jadams | re: the firefox keyword search conversation: just put yubnub in your keywordURL value in about.config |
| 13:05.10 | SpeedEvil | _text_ only - of the first 1000 articles is 70M |
| 13:05.14 | jadams | and you get the whole yubnub command line thing from the browser |
| 13:05.44 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:05.57 | CM | SpeedEvil: Wow, that's a lot of text |
| 13:07.03 | CM | SpeedEvil: I have The Hobbit as a .txt and that's 0.5mb |
| 13:07.35 | CM | For about 400 pages |
| 13:09.12 | jadams | if I have a powered usb hard drive I should be able to connect it to the phone no prob, right? |
| 13:09.25 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0DBAB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:09.39 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.187.73.203) |
| 13:09.47 | CM | jadams: Should work yes |
| 13:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko mafeu (i=3ece5d43@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-9b7d30648d35d1c9) |
| 13:10.22 | *** join/#openmoko ar1 (i=root@gateway/tor/x-c05ae5d3454bf747) |
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| 13:15.14 | *** part/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-180-226.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 13:18.17 | SpeedEvil | jadams: probably not. |
| 13:18.53 | SpeedEvil | jadams: the problem is that most USB devices (that I've tested - about 5) also rely on the presenve of +5V to wake them up and start them listening as USB |
| 13:20.10 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 13:21.32 | ScaredyCat | I'd have thought a powered usb hub would sort that |
| 13:22.03 | jadams | SpeedEvil: well, if I just need to get +5V to 'em I'll be fine |
| 13:22.11 | jadams | planning on building a bastard cable with a battery attached :) |
| 13:22.21 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.187.73.203) |
| 13:23.15 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@81.187.73.203) |
| 13:23.44 | ScaredyCat | http://www.radioshack.com/sm-cyberpower-4-port-battery-powered-hub--pi-2259675.html |
| 13:27.50 | *** part/#openmoko bassinboy (n=yep@c-76-31-13-187.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:27.53 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: powered hubs are the same. |
| 13:27.56 | *** part/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@p5B005CBF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:28.01 | C7_ | ScaredyCat: tried to order one of those cyberpower hubs in switzerland.. but no luck.. i even searched in other european countrys.. called our local distibutors if they can get one but still no luck |
| 13:28.12 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@p5B005CBF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:28.25 | SpeedEvil | Many won't recognise the host if it's not powered. |
| 13:29.16 | SpeedEvil | My Belkin tetrahub, forex, needs 5V - even only for a moment - on the host port |
| 13:29.41 | ScaredyCat | http://tabletblog.com/2006/01/no-solder-usb-host-method.html |
| 13:29.48 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise it doesn't recognise it. |
| 13:30.14 | ScaredyCat | http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4564/2003/1600/cimg0667.3.jpg?force=1 |
| 13:32.20 | edistar_ | is it normal that while building the makefile image the cpus are only on 60% load? |
| 13:32.40 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.187.73.203) |
| 13:33.56 | *** join/#openmoko FatherNitwit (n=FatherNi@c-24-8-32-58.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
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| 13:34.45 | cjb_ie | did you use make -j somenumber? |
| 13:34.48 | *** join/#openmoko devestate (n=devestat@r02amsdm2.desktop.umr.edu) |
| 13:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@123-193-215-175.ethome-ip.ethome.com.tw) |
| 13:35.12 | edistar | cjb_ie: yes, j 3 for 2 cores.. |
| 13:35.34 | cjb_ie | dunno then. |
| 13:35.46 | edistar | cjb_ie: ok, thanks |
| 13:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dantaliz@n128-227-82-9.xlate.ufl.edu) |
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| 13:37.31 | ScaredyCat | C7_: Amazon have them |
| 13:38.20 | ScaredyCat | http://www.amazon.com/Cyberpower-CP-H420MP-USB-Hub-Battery-Powered/dp/B0002UQALQ |
| 13:38.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Stylus_mount]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Mokopedia]] [[Summer_of_code/fr]] [[Alternate_colours/materials]] [[Ambient_light_sensor]] [[Extra_storage]] [[General-purpose_buttons_%28side-mounted%29]] and other changes |
| 13:40.34 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 13:44.46 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 13:44.46 | C7_ | ScaredyCat: thanks, seen that allready.. but only on the us page.. germany says that they don't sell them anymore.. :/ |
| 13:45.09 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 13:45.44 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54882587.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:45.50 | kiney | counter |
| 13:45.50 | C7_ | think i'll have to connect my wlan stick like this: http://tabletblog.com/2006/01/usb-power-injector-for-usb-host-mode.html |
| 13:45.50 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 11:07:05 (0.463±0.5 days) (1752;248) |
| 13:46.35 | C7_ | or does anyone know of another battery powered hub than the cyberpower one? |
| 13:48.11 | SpeedEvil | Technically yes, it's of no use to you. |
| 13:48.28 | SpeedEvil | As it's one-off |
| 13:48.51 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@81.187.73.203) |
| 13:50.19 | jadams | seen it |
| 13:50.21 | jadams | I think |
| 13:50.24 | jadams | ARGH |
| 13:50.28 | jadams | wrong chan |
| 13:51.22 | ScaredyCat | surely 'all' you need to do is splice the cable from the p1 device to the hub and provide +5 to the hub side... |
| 13:51.48 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-30285d937d4f990e) |
| 13:53.04 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:53.13 | SpeedEvil | it's not complex |
| 13:53.33 | SpeedEvil | Doing it compact, it is harder. |
| 13:53.39 | ScaredyCat | k, was just checking, seems not hard. :) - for once |
| 13:54.56 | ScaredyCat | isn't that you job SpeedEvil ;) .. backpack with battery + 4 port usb hub? :D |
| 13:55.07 | ScaredyCat | s/you/your/ |
| 13:56.14 | SpeedEvil | I'm contempating something similar. |
| 13:57.22 | ScaredyCat | chop chop :) |
| 13:57.33 | ScaredyCat | they'll be shipping soon :) |
| 13:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E018.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:59.43 | ScaredyCat | the question is SpeedEvil, will I be able to run my usb heated gloves off it :) |
| 14:00.13 | *** join/#openmoko untwisted (n=bam33@cnr00258.nursing.pitt.edu) |
| 14:00.15 | untwisted | mornin |
| 14:06.45 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3AB9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 14:13.30 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 14:14.46 | SiO2 | rwhitby, i tried the openmakefile, but it stops everytime here : http://rafb.net/p/6fMawY17.html |
| 14:14.55 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@59.93.50.182) |
| 14:18.30 | galexande | sio2, have you tried running ranlib on build/tmp/work/arm4vt-linux/lsof-4.77-r1/lib/liblsof.a ? |
| 14:18.57 | galexande | sio2, also, have you tried 'make clean-package-lsof' then make update-makefile && make update && make setup && make openmoko-devel-image ? |
| 14:19.12 | galexande | i had to do that once when i interrupted a compile and it left some files in a funny state |
| 14:19.27 | SiO2 | i tried the second post of without openmoko-devel-image |
| 14:19.34 | galexande | hmm |
| 14:19.54 | galexande | well, you never know, manually ranlibbing it might do the trick |
| 14:20.12 | SiO2 | ranlib: 'build/tmp/work/arm4vt-linux/lsof-4.77-r1/lib/liblsof.a': No such file |
| 14:20.44 | galexande | s/4v/v4/ my bad :) |
| 14:20.58 | galexande | i can't navigate these trees without tab completion |
| 14:21.11 | SiO2 | 'll try |
| 14:25.37 | SiO2 | ranlib: 'build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/lsof-4.77-r1/lib/liblsof.a': No such file |
| 14:25.41 | SiO2 | hmm the sam prob |
| 14:26.00 | SiO2 | of course, it can't exist, if it breaks during compilation |
| 14:27.33 | galexande | build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/lsof-4.77-r1/lsof_4.77_src/lib/liblsof.a that's the actual file. |
| 14:28.10 | galexande | if yyou wanna try something crazy, try replacing it with http://galexander.org/liblsof.a from my moko build :) |
| 14:29.04 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 14:29.31 | ewanm89_laptop | !source |
| 14:29.42 | ewanm89_laptop | @source |
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| 14:32.21 | ewanm89_laptop | apt: source |
| 14:32.22 | apt | To build Debian packages from source code: first, add a deb-src line to your sources.list file. Then "apt-get build-dep _pkg_" and "apt-get -b source _pkg_" to retrieve the build-dependencies, and the source. The resulting .deb files will be in `pwd`. |
| 14:32.24 | SiO2 | after ranlib, what i have to do? |
| 14:33.00 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
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| 14:36.14 | *** join/#openmoko mintee_ (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 14:36.47 | galexande | sio, rebuild it? |
| 14:36.58 | *** join/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 14:37.03 | guaqua | anyone received their new phone yet? |
| 14:37.13 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178067071.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:37.18 | SiO2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:37.25 | woglinde | lol |
| 14:37.31 | galexande | sio, sorry beats me :) |
| 14:37.32 | woglinde | -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/071607-duke-iphone.html |
| 14:37.38 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ChooseOp@207.190.19.223) |
| 14:37.56 | mintee | I replyed to the "THIS IS A DEVELOPER RELEASE, NOT A CONSUMER PRODUCT!|" with YES_I_DO and I haven't gotten any response back yet |
| 14:37.59 | galexande | hahah my mom works in university tech support and said her office is ordering a couple iphones so they can pre-test for this problem |
| 14:38.22 | Qwell[] | mintee: I hear you aren't supposed to - only on CANCEL |
| 14:38.27 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:38.41 | galexande | mintee, responses are only sent for errors |
| 14:38.43 | mintee | Qwell[], ah, ok |
| 14:38.52 | Qwell[] | let's see if chanserv lets me do this... |
| 14:38.56 | *** topic/#openmoko by Qwell[] -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later; If you ordered early, reply YES_I_DO (or CANCEL) to mail asking confirmation (note: you will not get a response to YES_I_DO) |
| 14:38.59 | ScaredyCat | mintee: yes it's dumb that they don't acky your reply |
| 14:38.59 | Qwell[] | w00t |
| 14:39.11 | mintee | is there anywhere i can check status that you know of? |
| 14:39.17 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 14:39.23 | ScaredyCat | you can't |
| 14:39.26 | woglinde | galexande lol |
| 14:39.32 | ScaredyCat | you in the same boat as us |
| 14:39.36 | galexande | i'm still operating on the assumption that my device shipped yesterday and will arrive friday |
| 14:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:39.42 | ScaredyCat | roflmao |
| 14:40.00 | ScaredyCat | did you get a cc confrmation galexande |
| 14:40.03 | mintee | lol ScaredyCat |
| 14:40.05 | Jason1 | galex: shipped from where? |
| 14:40.57 | ScaredyCat | The twilight zone |
| 14:41.01 | Jason1 | galex: if thats the case, mine better be here today. i know that it wont be, however |
| 14:41.18 | ScaredyCat | Jason1: I have your tracking number... |
| 14:41.18 | galexande | scared, in reality? no. in pretend-world: sure thing |
| 14:41.24 | galexande | jason, california |
| 14:41.24 | ScaredyCat | it's : 000000000000000 |
| 14:41.31 | mintee | iirc, didn't they say they wouldn't be shipping out til the 17th? |
| 14:41.39 | galexande | i can't believe that apple managed to fuck up ARP |
| 14:41.41 | Jason1 | fic has not met a deadline yet...and these are self imposed to boot |
| 14:41.44 | ScaredyCat | no, 16th is when they said |
| 14:41.46 | galexande | i mean, i've never seen anything flood ARP requests |
| 14:42.01 | galexande | jason, they got us on july 8th at least |
| 14:42.26 | galexande | honestly, i think it's a good sign that they obviously aren't very good at the business side of it |
| 14:42.35 | ScaredyCat | really? |
| 14:42.38 | galexande | i've seen a lot of devices that were good at the business side of it but which i would not use, or would only grudgingly use |
| 14:42.42 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 14:42.48 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-166.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:42.49 | ScaredyCat | it doesn't matter so much for us, but for mass market, they'll sink |
| 14:43.12 | galexande | when they said "we hired the best and brightest kernel hackers and so on", they could be blowing smoke up our skirts, but when the ecommerce site was obviously written by a kernel hacker, you know they weren't fronting :) |
| 14:43.34 | galexande | i'm still a pessimist about the mass-market prospects, that is decidedly someone else's problem |
| 14:43.34 | mintee | lol galexande |
| 14:43.44 | mintee | so true |
| 14:43.51 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549BB151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:44.48 | Jason1 | all they need to do is update us every now and then |
| 14:45.17 | galexande | i wish they would too, but sean explained why he doesn't....when they're at crunchtime, they stop reading the email lists to save time |
| 14:45.19 | Jason1 | it seems when ghe going gets tough, fic get silent |
| 14:45.21 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@81.187.73.203) |
| 14:45.30 | galexande | so the lack of news indicates that they're stressed and busy |
| 14:45.40 | galexande | which suggests to me that i will receive my phone eventually |
| 14:45.52 | ScaredyCat | or just useless at communication ;) |
| 14:45.57 | galexande | heh |
| 14:46.03 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-91-202.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 14:46.17 | Jason1 | why are they busy? i would think that the device should be boxed and ready |
| 14:46.17 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:46.37 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-183-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:46.37 | ScaredyCat | my biggest bitch is the 'remember' email |
| 14:46.52 | galexande | jason, i have a strong suspicion that coders are learning cardboard origami over the weekend |
| 14:47.00 | ScaredyCat | you can't remember something you were never told |
| 14:47.12 | Jason1 | i wonder if they hit a wall and are trying to reflash 1000 devices |
| 14:47.31 | galexande | jason, heh, i bet they would just ship us 1000 devices that panic on boot and let us reflash em :) |
| 14:47.31 | ferric | OMG |
| 14:47.51 | ScaredyCat | harder, harder |
| 14:47.56 | ferric | galexande: it would appear that we have to reflash them for sure. |
| 14:48.01 | ferric | (from the SH1 page) |
| 14:48.05 | galexande | also, they're handling some amount of tech support.../.ers writing in asking what the price is if they sign a 2 year contract |
| 14:48.28 | ferric | die pussy die! |
| 14:48.30 | ScaredyCat | that would be diggers not /. ers galexande |
| 14:48.39 | Jason1 | lol |
| 14:48.47 | ScaredyCat | as long as those moves result in an openmoko |
| 14:48.48 | galexande | heh i just use /. as a polite synonym for morons :) |
| 14:48.51 | ferric | lol |
| 14:49.09 | ferric | i bet jason1 hangs out on digg and writes nasty comments. |
| 14:49.22 | Jason1 | hehe |
| 14:49.26 | Jason1 | maybe |
| 14:49.31 | ferric | i knew it! |
| 14:49.36 | ferric | haha |
| 14:49.37 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-166.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:49.43 | ferric | ScaredyCat: that was horrible. |
| 14:49.46 | ScaredyCat | it was |
| 14:49.57 | ScaredyCat | I am evil, I must be stopped |
| 14:50.00 | phrozen77 | but true nonetheless :P |
| 14:50.03 | phrozen77 | *runsforthehills* |
| 14:50.11 | ferric | but i'm gonna get my neo before you and then we'll see who cares about the pussy pounding~!@$ |
| 14:50.44 | ferric | heh, welcome phrozen77 :P |
| 14:51.00 | ScaredyCat | pfft, your sprays are weak old man... |
| 14:51.31 | ScaredyCat | ferric: you'll only get your's after the 1924 other people |
| 14:51.46 | ferric | 1924...jesus |
| 14:51.55 | ferric | why do so many ppl want neo's? |
| 14:52.02 | mmazur | I don't think jesus would have anything to do with this. |
| 14:52.13 | ferric | r u kiddn me? jesus saves |
| 14:52.17 | Stephmw | ferric: cause it's sexy and the babes want you to have it |
| 14:52.22 | ferric | oh yeah |
| 14:52.23 | ScaredyCat | with the halifax |
| 14:52.27 | ferric | it's a chick-magnet |
| 14:52.42 | ScaredyCat | yeah, bot with the same pole |
| 14:52.44 | galexande | "is that a unix box in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?" |
| 14:52.45 | ScaredyCat | but |
| 14:52.48 | ferric | man my friends almost left me the other day for this guy with an iPhone |
| 14:53.01 | ferric | seriously, if i don't get a neo soon i'll be friendless |
| 14:53.03 | ScaredyCat | 'friend' |
| 14:53.14 | galexande | i saw someone who looked suspiciously like our mayor sitting outside showing some girl his iphone |
| 14:53.23 | ferric | haha - i knew you were gonna pick on that you FearfulPussy |
| 14:53.26 | Fatal | "come back!! it's opensource!" |
| 14:53.27 | ScaredyCat | lo |
| 14:53.29 | ScaredyCat | l |
| 14:53.34 | ferric | Fatal: haha |
| 14:53.34 | phrozen77 | lmao |
| 14:53.40 | ScaredyCat | "wanna feel my iphone" |
| 14:53.49 | ferric | galexande: hhahaha |
| 14:53.58 | ferric | ok peace, i'm off to work |
| 14:54.00 | woglinde | lol |
| 14:54.05 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 14:54.45 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: someone at work just bought in a big bag of jelly ladies... |
| 14:55.01 | ScaredyCat | jelly ladies! |
| 14:55.05 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: mostly accurate |
| 14:55.11 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 14:55.21 | mintee | jelly ladies? |
| 14:55.25 | Stephmw | of course, they're sugar-coated and thankfully don't have any hairs... |
| 14:55.33 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 14:55.36 | galexande | cats don't eat jellies |
| 14:55.40 | Stephmw | mintee: yeah, they got them at copenhagen airport |
| 14:56.32 | *** join/#openmoko dkruz (i=pathfind@66.175.214.182) |
| 14:56.35 | dkruz | want a FREE iPhone? Go here to Score Yourself a FREE iPhone http://www.YourFreeiPhone.com/index.php?ref=3922029 Super easy. |
| 14:56.35 | aloril | dkruz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:56.49 | ScaredyCat | spam! |
| 14:56.57 | Stephmw | ops, kick him please |
| 14:57.06 | galexande | wow, i'm shocked |
| 14:57.06 | jgm | Well this must be the least appropriate channel for that particular spam... |
| 14:57.06 | ScaredyCat | kick kick kick kick kick kick kick kick kick kick kick |
| 14:57.09 | dkruz | want a FREE iPhone? Go here to Score Yourself a FREE iPhone http://www.YourFreeiPhone.com/index.php?ref=3922029 Super easy. |
| 14:57.09 | galexande | the iphone isn't free |
| 14:57.10 | dkruz | :) |
| 14:57.15 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@81.187.73.203) |
| 14:57.17 | mintee | but his mom is |
| 14:57.18 | dkruz | :) |
| 14:57.19 | dkruz | want a FREE iPhone? Go here to Score Yourself a FREE iPhone http://www.YourFreeiPhone.com/index.php?ref=3922029 Super easy. |
| 14:57.22 | Qwell[] | even if it costs nothing, it still isn't free |
| 14:57.25 | jadams | someone kill that guy |
| 14:57.28 | dkruz | :)))))))))))))))))))))))))) |
| 14:57.29 | dkruz | want a FREE iPhone? Go here to Score Yourself a FREE iPhone http://www.YourFreeiPhone.com/index.php?ref=3922029 Super easy. |
| 14:57.33 | mintee | ./ignore dkruz |
| 14:57.40 | dkruz | want a FREE iPhone? Go here to Score Yourself a FREE iPhone http://www.YourFreeiPhone.com/index.php?ref=3922029 Super easy. |
| 14:57.42 | jadams | and...done |
| 14:57.42 | mintee | so, anyway |
| 14:57.42 | untwisted | /ignore dkruz |
| 14:57.44 | dkruz | awwwwwwwwwww |
| 14:57.48 | Stephmw | mintee: yeah, but it fills the channel log with link spam |
| 14:57.55 | orospakr | heh. |
| 14:58.04 | orospakr | what ironically amusing spam. |
| 14:58.06 | mintee | Stephmw, yeah, i know... but it helps me |
| 14:58.08 | jadams | true...kline |
| 14:58.10 | *** join/#openmoko denny (n=denny@freenode/staff/denny) |
| 14:58.18 | *** join/#openmoko seanw (i=swhitton@freenode/staff/wikimedia.sean-whitton) |
| 14:58.21 | jadams | orospakr: isn't it surreal to see it in this chan? |
| 14:58.25 | woglinde | lol |
| 14:58.27 | orospakr | jadams: yup. |
| 14:58.32 | mintee | speaking of the iphone... !SPAM http://duggmirror.com/apple/The_iPhone_is_a_piece_of_shit_and_so_is_your_face/?u=iphone |
| 14:58.50 | galexande | first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they spam you, then you win |
| 14:58.54 | seanw | Hey denny |
| 14:58.58 | phrozen77 | ahaha |
| 14:59.01 | woglinde | lol |
| 14:59.02 | Stephmw | thanks guys |
| 14:59.05 | phrozen77 | i for one welcome our ircop-overlords |
| 14:59.06 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:59.06 | phrozen77 | :D |
| 14:59.34 | denny | you could ask the channel owner to run this command next time he's around: /msg chanserv access #openmoko add *!*@freenode/staff/* 10 |
| 14:59.41 | denny | gives us a bit more leeway in how soon we can intervene for you |
| 14:59.44 | *** join/#openmoko dT1 (n=user@adsl-69-153-123-205.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net) |
| 14:59.56 | Stephmw | denny: thanks, will do |
| 14:59.59 | Qwell[] | denny: hmm, staffers don't automatically have access on a chan? |
| 15:00.06 | phrozen77 | depends i'd say |
| 15:00.12 | denny | we can |
| 15:00.13 | phrozen77 | oper-override might help there |
| 15:00.16 | *** part/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 15:00.17 | phrozen77 | if available that is |
| 15:00.17 | denny | but we usually don't exercise it |
| 15:00.20 | Qwell[] | I see |
| 15:00.30 | woglinde | okay |
| 15:00.31 | denny | explicitly putting us on the access list gives us permission to help out in borderline cases |
| 15:00.37 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 15:00.37 | woglinde | I have to study now |
| 15:00.40 | woglinde | bye |
| 15:00.43 | denny | otherwise we tend not to intervene unless the problem is drastic and/or network-wide |
| 15:00.50 | denny | this guy was network-wide, hence his departure :) |
| 15:00.52 | zecke | woglinde: bye |
| 15:00.52 | SpeedEvil | mickey|slides /me points up at dennys comments |
| 15:00.55 | phrozen77 | :> |
| 15:00.56 | Qwell[] | denny: I'll consider for other channels :D |
| 15:01.01 | denny | cool, thanks |
| 15:01.28 | orospakr | Heh, I haven't checked maddox in a while. |
| 15:01.32 | ScaredyCat | *blink* |
| 15:01.32 | dT1 | So anybody want to donate to the "Give Me a Neo fund"? |
| 15:01.32 | aloril | dT1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:01.40 | ScaredyCat | hahaha |
| 15:01.43 | jeddy3 | hehe :) |
| 15:02.01 | dT1 | Its a worthy cause |
| 15:02.07 | dT1 | ;-) |
| 15:02.20 | jadams | is there a faq entry for 'can I has some money for a neo?' |
| 15:02.28 | phrozen77 | lol |
| 15:02.32 | ewon | hah |
| 15:02.39 | ewon | god-damned hippies |
| 15:02.40 | *** part/#openmoko mafeu (i=3ece5d43@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-9b7d30648d35d1c9) |
| 15:02.41 | phrozen77 | next to icanhascheezburger |
| 15:02.42 | phrozen77 | :P |
| 15:03.13 | dT1 | This is opensource, we are commies not hippies ;-) |
| 15:03.26 | galexande | speak for yourself, dt1 |
| 15:03.26 | jadams | screw you guy, I'm no commie :) |
| 15:03.39 | galexande | smell my rank hippie odor!! |
| 15:03.49 | galexande | (if only i were kidding) |
| 15:03.54 | orospakr | galexande: ewww. |
| 15:04.07 | jadams | seeing a flaw in the system is different from centralizing the means of production in the hands of the government :) |
| 15:04.38 | ScaredyCat | jadams: yes |
| 15:04.39 | galexande | what if i went on a hunger strike until they charge my credit card |
| 15:04.39 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADCE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:04.50 | jadams | galexande: then you should hope they charge soon :) |
| 15:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.187.73.203) |
| 15:05.14 | ScaredyCat | galexande: you'll get very very thin |
| 15:05.24 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@81.187.73.203) |
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| 15:13.49 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 15:15.54 | edistar | how long does building the makefile take? |
| 15:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-152-207-166.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:16.35 | *** join/#openmoko soccerpirate4 (i=8f450331@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-b82a50e2ff30382d) |
| 15:16.56 | Stephmw | a little OT: any ideas if ccache can be used with pvmgmake... or even if there'd be any point? |
| 15:18.17 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-79-209.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:18.57 | ScaredyCat | edistar: depends on the hardware... |
| 15:19.08 | ScaredyCat | takes me 5 hours from scratch |
| 15:19.12 | edistar | xeon, 2 ghz |
| 15:19.14 | edistar | 4gb ram |
| 15:19.25 | edistar | raid 5 sata, 160mb/sek |
| 15:19.49 | ScaredyCat | wiat.. I'll just do the calculation... |
| 15:19.50 | ScaredyCat | .... |
| 15:19.52 | ScaredyCat | .. |
| 15:19.55 | edistar | ;) |
| 15:19.56 | ScaredyCat | 6 houes |
| 15:19.58 | ScaredyCat | oo |
| 15:20.01 | ScaredyCat | 6 hours |
| 15:20.07 | edistar | are you joking? |
| 15:20.12 | ScaredyCat | give or take 3 hours |
| 15:20.16 | edistar | okey ;) |
| 15:20.17 | *** part/#openmoko nohar (n=nohar@yu.t1r.net) |
| 15:20.37 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@wlan-client-318.informatik.uni-bremen.de) |
| 15:20.42 | Stephmw | edistar: software, hardware or mobo raid? |
| 15:20.45 | ScaredyCat | my box is a dual Xeon 2.4ghz gb ram, takes 308 minutes |
| 15:20.54 | edistar | Stephmw: hw raid |
| 15:21.25 | edistar | ScaredyCat: well, I have a xeon with 2 cores.. like you |
| 15:21.31 | ScaredyCat | 2gb ram |
| 15:21.36 | Stephmw | edistar: interesting - 3ware or LSI? - I'm trying to find a good configuration for my LSI card |
| 15:21.53 | ScaredyCat | I have 2 physical xeons |
| 15:21.55 | edistar | 3ware I think, it's just borrowed.. |
| 15:22.13 | edistar | ScaredyCat: thats nice, is that a little fasted? my cores share 4mb cache |
| 15:22.23 | edistar | s/fasted/faster |
| 15:22.37 | ScaredyCat | my cache is pathetic |
| 15:22.51 | ScaredyCat | 512mb each |
| 15:23.06 | cjb_ie | 512k? |
| 15:23.09 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 15:23.10 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 15:23.13 | ScaredyCat | mb |
| 15:23.15 | ScaredyCat | wtf |
| 15:23.28 | ewon | anyone tried distcc with the moko build? |
| 15:24.01 | ScaredyCat | but I'm not sure it's worth it... |
| 15:24.10 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD95390DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:24.11 | ScaredyCat | (for me) |
| 15:24.28 | edistar | what is distcc? |
| 15:24.37 | *** part/#openmoko denny (n=denny@freenode/staff/denny) |
| 15:24.38 | ScaredyCat | distributed cc |
| 15:24.59 | ScaredyCat | compiles different bits on different machines at the same time |
| 15:25.16 | ScaredyCat | speed things up if you have lots of machines and lots to compile |
| 15:25.34 | edistar | okey |
| 15:25.45 | SiO2 | is good for gentoo, when you have access to the earthsimulatior ;) |
| 15:25.56 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 15:26.32 | ScaredyCat | how quick ? |
| 15:26.35 | edistar | my make openmoko-devel-image broke off, if I restart it and correct the errors, does it need to do everything again or can it just continue where it stopped? |
| 15:26.45 | ScaredyCat | it'll carry on |
| 15:26.50 | edistar | :) |
| 15:27.06 | edistar | what is bitbake exactly? |
| 15:27.36 | ScaredyCat | some weird thing... I have very little experience of... |
| 15:27.43 | dT1 | a tool for commies ;-) |
| 15:27.59 | ScaredyCat | I get the feeling it's like a liibrary of how to build stuff |
| 15:28.02 | ewon | I ran distcc on the render cluster in work |
| 15:28.03 | edistar | ah |
| 15:28.05 | ewon | it was nice |
| 15:28.23 | dT1 | I think its like Gentoo's portage system |
| 15:28.28 | ewanm89_laptop | It's a build tool, based on portage/emerge from gentoo. |
| 15:28.32 | dT1 | essentially |
| 15:28.45 | edistar | ewon: I am trying to convince the teacher at school to let me use the student pcs as a cluster, but no success yet |
| 15:29.02 | galexande | edistar, it is easier to apologize than to ask permission |
| 15:29.03 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: How old are you? |
| 15:29.09 | dT1 | haha |
| 15:29.24 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: 17 |
| 15:29.37 | ewanm89_laptop | :( I'm nolonger the youngest. |
| 15:29.42 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 15:29.53 | edistar | galexande: I am setting up the school OS and everything with friends, so I suppose it will work soon |
| 15:29.54 | ScaredyCat | that's how it starts... |
| 15:29.59 | Stephmw | dammit. distcc can only use up to 10-20 machines (according to the distcc page) |
| 15:30.09 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k958.webspeed.dk) |
| 15:30.10 | ScaredyCat | then the policemen start to look 12 ewanm89_laptop... |
| 15:30.13 | Kensan | edistar: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cluster_Live_CD |
| 15:30.16 | ScaredyCat | then you know you're old |
| 15:30.55 | bmidgley | ScaredyCat: that wasn't on halloween you noticed the police looked 12 was it? |
| 15:31.22 | ScaredyCat | no, it was when I got stopped for jaywalking |
| 15:31.29 | galexande | hahahaha |
| 15:31.39 | galexande | in .nl? |
| 15:31.46 | ScaredyCat | You're not a copper, you're like 12.. |
| 15:32.06 | ScaredyCat | then, bzzzzzt an o |
| 15:32.08 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@sflc/staff/conservancy.president.bkuhn) |
| 15:32.12 | ScaredyCat | I was on the floo |
| 15:32.13 | ScaredyCat | r |
| 15:32.37 | ScaredyCat | jaywalking=for our american friends :) |
| 15:33.00 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:33.47 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:35.19 | ScaredyCat | firefox && flash is just broken |
| 15:35.28 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck (n=Miranda@dslb-088-064-008-142.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:37.12 | dT1 | Flash for Linux is broken |
| 15:38.08 | dT1 | I've never understood why Miguel de Icaza is so willing to make an impl. of Microsoft libs, but not just come up with a competing product that is cross-platform and better than MS's |
| 15:38.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:JoSch]] [[User:Fradeve11]] [[Building_a_hello_world_application]] [[FAQ]] [[Wishlist:Wikipedia_Mirror]] [[Alternate_colours/materials]] [[Wish_List]] |
| 15:38.27 | galexande | miguel's a sucker. |
| 15:38.47 | dT1 | All he is doing is promoting the usage of MS's junk |
| 15:38.49 | galexande | i remember when .net was introduced and miguel jumped on board and said "this isn't going to be another embrace-and-extend microsoft-only festival, we're going to bring this to the world" |
| 15:39.03 | galexande | what is it, 8 years later? |
| 15:39.24 | summatusmentis | woudln't it be substantially easier to make compatibility, than to completely rework something similar to what MS is doing? |
| 15:39.40 | dT1 | It would be substantially substandard too though |
| 15:39.41 | don-o | dT1: if you make the assumption microsoft tech X is going to be dominant, then an open implementation of the same tech would be great. but that first assumption wasnt true in .net |
| 15:39.59 | galexande | yeah, microsoft managed to embrace-and-extend their own standard, and then mostly not use it anyways |
| 15:41.17 | dT1 | I just don't understand why Miguel just wants to be eternally saying we can almost run most thinks for .Net version x when they could've just run with the CLI and made their own libs and did it better |
| 15:41.19 | summatusmentis | mono is all open source anyway, so I fail to see the issue here |
| 15:41.26 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@pool-96-224-43-11.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 15:41.48 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
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| 15:44.42 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: it only matters because then you end up with a lot of free software tied to crap libraries |
| 15:44.50 | baird | from what I've noticed, people are avoiding Mono like the plague because of the possible patent risks. |
| 15:45.11 | summatusmentis | unknown_lamer: tied to mono libraries right? |
| 15:45.19 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:45.24 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: to all of the .NET clone libs |
| 15:45.24 | summatusmentis | or maybe I'm completely misunderstanding what mono is |
| 15:45.32 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 15:45.33 | summatusmentis | right, which are open source? |
| 15:45.35 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: assuming that .NET sucks (I never bothered looking at it) |
| 15:45.50 | so_solid_two | not all the mono libs are .net clone libs, e.g. gtk# et al. |
| 15:45.51 | anrp | that's a big assumption to make |
| 15:45.56 | anrp | it sucks indirectly, for sure |
| 15:46.02 | anrp | but from a technical standpoint it's not bad |
| 15:46.16 | anrp | from a legal and moral perspective not so much ~_)~ |
| 15:46.25 | Kero | "not bad" is not good enough :) |
| 15:46.33 | anrp | ;/ |
| 15:46.46 | Kero | otoh, "all xyz sucks, a particular one just sucks less" |
| 15:47.14 | unknown_lamer | I'm torn between cl-dbus and getting the clisp ffi working on arm first |
| 15:47.26 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 15:47.46 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Ma724.m.pppool.de) |
| 15:50.09 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.187.73.203) |
| 15:50.54 | galexande | you know, what this iphone thing reaolly tells us that it's absolutely trivial to dos a wireless network where security is obtained through vpns |
| 15:51.50 | Stephmw | have they pinpointed the cause yet? |
| 15:51.50 | anrp | vpns? |
| 15:52.20 | galexande | anrp, your choices are open, vpn, or wap/wep/whatever |
| 15:52.49 | galexande | most universities seem to know that wap doesn't work so they let anyone connect to the 802.11b, but you can't send any packets through to da iddernet until you register to the vpn |
| 15:52.56 | galexande | but you can send arp packets all day long |
| 15:53.07 | ckuethe | authpf |
| 15:53.21 | ckuethe | no joy until you authenticate, and after that we just log you |
| 15:53.36 | ckuethe | surveillance is a very effective abuse-stopper :) |
| 15:54.26 | ckuethe | plus we do some connection-rate limiting to make life difficult for viruses and worms while still allowing people to load 20 firefox tabs all at once |
| 15:54.47 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
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| 15:58.23 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 15:58.58 | unknown_lamer | hooray, I have room for an OE dev env now that I found and nuked my old series60 stuff |
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| 16:15.35 | PBeck | re |
| 16:17.16 | *** part/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@59.93.50.182) |
| 16:18.55 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 16:22.35 | ferric | re PBeck |
| 16:23.50 | unknown_lamer | oh yay someone got the clisp ffi working on the nokia n800 |
| 16:25.25 | PBeck | hey ferric |
| 16:29.20 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@rt94.highlink.ru) |
| 16:29.55 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qe204.q.pppool.de) |
| 16:30.58 | don-o | what is the clisp ffi? |
| 16:31.29 | ScaredyCat | 265m51 |
| 16:32.23 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 16:32.31 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@c-67-184-72-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 16:32.35 | unknown_lamer | don-o: clisp foreign function interface (it lets you open libs and then bind them into lisp at runtim) |
| 16:32.52 | unknown_lamer | don-o: which is a neccessary to use lisp to write stuff using the libmoko* stuff |
| 16:33.07 | unknown_lamer | now I can focus on writing cl-dbus |
| 16:33.08 | don-o | lisp scares me :) |
| 16:33.42 | unknown_lamer | things other than lisp scare me |
| 16:33.52 | unknown_lamer | I accidentally picked up scheme when I was fifteen |
| 16:33.55 | unknown_lamer | seven years later ... |
| 16:34.00 | unknown_lamer | that was the best accident ever |
| 16:34.07 | don-o | is lisp a 'functional' language? |
| 16:34.11 | unknown_lamer | it can be |
| 16:34.15 | unknown_lamer | lisp is an everything language |
| 16:34.34 | don-o | cool :) |
| 16:34.35 | unknown_lamer | and I really do mean that (not being a hur hur paul graham sez lisp is cool dork) |
| 16:34.49 | unknown_lamer | common lisp standardized current lisp practice and has compat for stuff going back to maclisp |
| 16:34.54 | *** join/#openmoko spliffy_ (n=frost@p54B1F19A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:35.12 | unknown_lamer | so you have the heavy maclisp imperative influence along with the academic functional lisp influences |
| 16:35.20 | unknown_lamer | and the most flexible object system known to man |
| 16:35.56 | unknown_lamer | on top of those three models you can build any other so there are a nice things like declarative logic languages embedded transparantly in CL nowadays |
| 16:40.39 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:43.40 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-54-25.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 16:51.41 | galexande | forth is better :) |
| 16:52.16 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@wlan-184.uni-koblenz.de) |
| 16:54.47 | *** join/#openmoko jlf (n=user@209.204.171.109) |
| 16:55.01 | ScaredyCat | logo ftw |
| 16:55.34 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DBE08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:56.03 | unknown_lamer | ScaredyCat: logo is a dialect of lisp :-) |
| 16:56.10 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 16:57.31 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but it seems about as much use as.. |
| 16:57.41 | *** join/#openmoko T1 (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 16:58.27 | ScaredyCat | ...but then I still have trouble working out why people think python is so good... |
| 16:59.20 | ScaredyCat | especially on an embedded device... |
| 16:59.21 | unknown_lamer | ScaredyCat: I'm at least 10x productive in terms of actual working code in lisp vs c |
| 16:59.37 | ScaredyCat | for embedded stuff? |
| 16:59.41 | unknown_lamer | ScaredyCat: clisp uses ~6M of RAM on start and doesn't grow significantly worse over time |
| 16:59.48 | ScaredyCat | surely cycles are more important |
| 16:59.49 | mmazur | ScaredyCat, nah, on an embedded device we want jre and jpython on that. |
| 16:59.49 | unknown_lamer | ScaredyCat: it is also reasonably fast |
| 17:00.21 | ScaredyCat | I'm not sure I want java either |
| 17:00.22 | unknown_lamer | ScaredyCat: I wouldn't write the OS in it, but it's fine for applications. Keep in mind that CL's heyday was the early 90s. |
| 17:00.29 | *** part/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dantaliz@n128-227-82-9.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 17:00.30 | unknown_lamer | java is too heavyweight |
| 17:00.42 | unknown_lamer | gcj compiled code is ok |
| 17:00.48 | unknown_lamer | (excepting j2me I guess) |
| 17:02.26 | *** join/#openmoko compbrain (i=compbrai@pdpc/supporter/student/CompBrain) |
| 17:02.27 | Stephmw | depends on what's heavyweight, and how many apps you plan on running :) |
| 17:02.35 | Stephmw | unknown_lamer: j2me can typically run in well under 2mb heap |
| 17:03.21 | ScaredyCat | I still think it's a lot |
| 17:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 17:04.57 | unknown_lamer | ScaredyCat: embedded hardware is on par with normal desktop hardware from tenish years ago |
| 17:05.17 | unknown_lamer | a 100Mhz p1 with 16M of RAM was my primary dev workstation for a looooong time and I used lisp fine on there |
| 17:05.35 | galexande | i remember when i bought my first 128MB stick of ram, i booted up, loaded X, loaded netscape, quit everrything, and then loaded X and netscape again, with my eye on the (dark) hard drive light |
| 17:05.44 | galexande | maybe netscape 3 is what we should run :) |
| 17:06.00 | unknown_lamer | khtml is smaller than netscape 3 :-) |
| 17:06.03 | ScaredyCat | maybe freedos :P |
| 17:06.16 | cjb_ie | who needs a gui anyway |
| 17:06.22 | unknown_lamer | the mozilla platform is a bunch of good ideas with horrible implementations |
| 17:06.26 | ScaredyCat | yeah, gui's are for wimps |
| 17:06.33 | galexande | scaredy, pun? |
| 17:06.35 | unknown_lamer | guis are good, wimp uis are bad |
| 17:06.40 | empty_mind | and develop in assembly lang ? |
| 17:06.47 | don-o | i want to see an iPhone-clone UI |
| 17:06.55 | *** part/#openmoko LittleIdiot (n=lite@2001:4d50:100:1:0:0:2:12) |
| 17:07.00 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 17:07.07 | cjb_ie | assembly language? luxury! machine code is where it's at. 1s and 0s, down at the metal |
| 17:07.23 | ScaredyCat | galexande: yes... |
| 17:07.51 | ScaredyCat | pffft, in my day we had to melt sand to make the chips |
| 17:07.55 | empty_mind | coding in 0's n 1s is waste of time |
| 17:07.58 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 17:08.02 | ScaredyCat | we used to get up before we wnt to bed.. |
| 17:08.20 | mmazur | 1s? You have 1s? You spoiled brats. Back in my days...! |
| 17:08.38 | cjb_ie | well, when i say 1s, i mean the absence of 0s... |
| 17:09.08 | ScaredyCat | we used to share out 0's with 10 other companies |
| 17:09.26 | cjb_ie | and how did you count to 10? |
| 17:09.35 | galexande | god this dinosaur festival is reminding me of a mainframe conferenec |
| 17:09.39 | mmazur | On paper. Duh. |
| 17:09.42 | ScaredyCat | 01 10 |
| 17:10.09 | cjb_ie | 0 00 000 0000... |
| 17:10.15 | mmazur | 8) |
| 17:10.21 | mmazur | Inventive. |
| 17:10.29 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: unary! |
| 17:10.39 | ScaredyCat | lol - yes |
| 17:10.41 | mmazur | Binary is for n00bs. |
| 17:11.48 | ScaredyCat | the kids today.... |
| 17:11.50 | juri_ | minimoz? |
| 17:11.58 | ScaredyCat | ... don't know how lucky they are |
| 17:12.08 | mmazur | yeah. |
| 17:12.40 | *** join/#openmoko LittleIdiot (n=lite@2001:4d50:100:1:0:0:2:12) |
| 17:13.21 | galexande | guys this stopped being funny, you're making me hate my dayjob |
| 17:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@67.70.212.228) |
| 17:13.38 | mmazur | galexande, why? |
| 17:13.41 | galexande | i spend all day feeding FB80 records into a virtual punchcard machine |
| 17:14.01 | ScaredyCat | hehehehe.... |
| 17:14.12 | mmazur | A virtual punchcard machine? Wtf is that supposed to be? |
| 17:14.47 | cjb_ie | could they not get a virtual punchcard monkey to go with the virtual machine? |
| 17:14.49 | galexande | it's OS/360 (rebranded: z/OS!) running on an emulator, where all I/O takes place across boundaries which emulate punchcards |
| 17:15.08 | ScaredyCat | that's so retarded |
| 17:15.19 | galexande | and popular |
| 17:15.46 | ScaredyCat | probably because they paid through the nose for the everything 500 years ago |
| 17:16.01 | mmazur | galexande, how cool, you're working in retro it shop! |
| 17:16.32 | happycube | lol yeah |
| 17:16.33 | cjb_ie | galexande: offer to sell them an openmoko that does everything thier existing app does, and probably faster :-) |
| 17:16.36 | happycube | what does the emulator run on? |
| 17:16.37 | mmazur | galexande, you're probably all waring afros 'n hippie clothes :) |
| 17:16.44 | happycube | no way business suits |
| 17:16.45 | happycube | ;) |
| 17:16.48 | mmazur | *wearing |
| 17:17.35 | galexande | happy, a licensed overpriced PC |
| 17:17.44 | happycube | ouch |
| 17:17.50 | happycube | i take it you're not running hercules then |
| 17:17.52 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 17:18.04 | happycube | ... i wonder how many mips herc. would get on a core 2 quad |
| 17:18.06 | galexande | heh happy no we're afraid of the legal ramifications |
| 17:18.07 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 17:18.09 | happycube | (if it's smp aware) |
| 17:18.18 | galexande | and the licensed emulator we're running is actually substantially faster than hercules |
| 17:18.21 | happycube | cool |
| 17:18.25 | galexande | not $60k faster :( |
| 17:18.28 | happycube | o2 |
| 17:18.30 | happycube | ouch |
| 17:18.36 | galexande | but it's about to become unlicensed, and then we're all sorts of fucked |
| 17:18.38 | happycube | $60k is still cheaper than maintaining a legacy mainframe |
| 17:18.43 | happycube | yearly contract? |
| 17:19.09 | happycube | now i could see running the old software under VM or whatever they call it now on a new mainframe if it's used for other stuff too |
| 17:19.19 | galexande | yeah, and ibm sued the guys on the other end, so it's all up. their official strategy now is that since the mainframe market is shrinking, the only way they can make enough money to justify the thousands of employees is by having a complete monopoly on the market |
| 17:19.26 | galexande | which, oddly, was their strategy when they entered the market and at every point in between, also |
| 17:19.30 | happycube | yeah |
| 17:19.40 | happycube | suprise! buttsecx! |
| 17:19.41 | happycube | sorry. |
| 17:19.44 | galexande | hahaha |
| 17:20.11 | galexande | our choices fall between hercules and renting time on a mainframe, or buying the smallest z/series mainframe |
| 17:20.20 | mmazur | galexande, nooooo! IBM is like all fluffy and pink and good and we all love ibm! |
| 17:20.24 | happycube | how much is the smallest mainframe? |
| 17:20.30 | mmazur | Cause it like uses linux. |
| 17:20.30 | galexande | happy, on the order of $100k i think |
| 17:20.33 | happycube | ow |
| 17:20.41 | ScaredyCat | decde -jfo0 ~/lsd.pra |
| 17:20.48 | galexande | IBM thinks that we're all fluffy and pink because they use our products, so maybe we can get a blessing to use hercules |
| 17:20.55 | happycube | yeah |
| 17:20.59 | galexande | or something |
| 17:21.12 | happycube | i'm kinda surpised they don't license for herc legitmately... i guess that would eat their biz too much |
| 17:21.40 | galexande | so far they've been completely mum on it. they don't want to alienate all teh linux developers that use it, but they don't want to bless it either because it would totally destroy their legal stance |
| 17:21.59 | happycube | yeah |
| 17:22.00 | galexande | so for the past 3 years every CD comes with a wrapper which says not to run it on hercules, but there's some nudging and winking going on at the trade shows |
| 17:22.06 | happycube | lol |
| 17:22.18 | happycube | don't get *caught* running it on hercules |
| 17:22.27 | happycube | ^ in produciton |
| 17:22.39 | happycube | s/produciton/production/ |
| 17:22.59 | galexande | every time i get a new palmtop i show it to my boss "look how much faster than the mainframe this is" |
| 17:23.13 | holycow | heh |
| 17:23.19 | happycube | lol |
| 17:23.40 | happycube | "yeah, but does it have 99.999999% uptime?" |
| 17:23.49 | happycube | ^ legit question in his position |
| 17:23.59 | galexande | my palmtop has so much uptime it wrapped around to zero |
| 17:24.02 | happycube | heh |
| 17:24.05 | galexande | (no kidding, it blew my mind) |
| 17:24.06 | juri_ | happy: i work in banking. same issues here. ;) |
| 17:24.32 | happycube | where i work it's like "oh, the six year old dimension 4100 server hasn't borken yet..." |
| 17:24.43 | happycube | we do have backups. |
| 17:24.50 | galexande | man, and, not to bore you all with mainframes when we could be talking about laforge's blog, but mainframes are *easy* to crash |
| 17:25.18 | happycube | ^ made me look :P |
| 17:26.01 | happycube | heh... how easy? |
| 17:26.12 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@142.163.211.34) |
| 17:26.24 | juri_ | happy: i'm starting to move this environment to an emulated environment, so we can change the hardware without the software noticing... many very customized qemu setups. :) |
| 17:26.33 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 17:27.00 | happycube | :) |
| 17:27.03 | happycube | sweet |
| 17:27.08 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 17:30.17 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 17:30.18 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 09:14:51 (0.385±0.4 days) (1753;248) |
| 17:30.19 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:30.53 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:31.12 | juri_ | counter rolled over. |
| 17:31.18 | ScaredyCat | is that another gestimate aloril / aloril2 |
| 17:33.04 | duffyd | hey daMaestro |
| 17:33.18 | daMaestro | hello duffyd |
| 17:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-24506bd29f0c73aa) |
| 17:33.33 | galexande | the ups truck drives by / the driver doesn't see me / no neo today |
| 17:33.36 | daMaestro | duffyd, good to see you in this channel |
| 17:33.43 | duffyd | daMaestro: :-) |
| 17:34.03 | duffyd | daMaestro: gotta support the local Taiwanese effort (considering I'm currently staying in Taiwan) |
| 17:34.26 | duffyd | daMaestro: you getting a Neo? |
| 17:34.38 | daMaestro | duffyd, yes; i'm order 1964 |
| 17:34.54 | duffyd | daMaestro: cool, me too |
| 17:35.08 | duffyd | daMaestro: always wanted to hack on an embedded device, now is my chance |
| 17:35.13 | daMaestro | GTA01 is going to be nice.. to just have something to work on |
| 17:35.20 | duffyd | yup |
| 17:35.21 | daMaestro | but GTA02 is really what will be cool |
| 17:35.28 | duffyd | for sure |
| 17:35.35 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 17:35.50 | duffyd | daMaestro: so you more of a hardware developer than a Plone/web dev? |
| 17:36.08 | daMaestro | no, not really |
| 17:36.10 | Kero | (shipping update on ML) |
| 17:36.16 | daMaestro | i kinda do it all |
| 17:36.18 | daMaestro | Kero, link? |
| 17:36.25 | Kero | mail |
| 17:36.28 | duffyd | Kero: yay! |
| 17:37.01 | Kero | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007210.html |
| 17:37.03 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Shipping update |
| 17:37.04 | Kero | there you go :) |
| 17:37.08 | ferric | so the neo's are here. :) |
| 17:37.12 | Kero | oy, I beat the script :) |
| 17:37.17 | cel | yeah |
| 17:37.54 | don-o | omg |
| 17:38.01 | ferric | unless there were drop-outs between 1800 and 2700. |
| 17:38.07 | galexande | 1841. take that, kero |
| 17:38.13 | Kero | YES_I_DO |
| 17:38.16 | ferric | haha |
| 17:38.23 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Building_a_hello_world_application]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Main_Page/fr]] [[User:Thomas01]] [[Talk:Building_a_hello_world_application]] [[Mokopedia]] [[User:JoSch]] |
| 17:38.27 | Kero | but I assume YOU_TOO |
| 17:38.29 | ScaredyCat | "Before the end of this week you should see a charge on your credit cards." |
| 17:38.36 | ferric | well the mobo on my freebsd box died, so i don't have a dev environment anyway. |
| 17:38.37 | ScaredyCat | wtf, do it NOW! |
| 17:38.48 | ScaredyCat | stop knobbing about |
| 17:39.39 | don-o | cleared customs! \o/ |
| 17:39.46 | ScaredyCat | half |
| 17:40.14 | *** join/#openmoko pitux (n=sonny@i05m-213-44-25-207.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 17:40.24 | pitux | hi |
| 17:40.35 | ScaredyCat | so what time is it in ca ? |
| 17:40.38 | galexande | i hate customs. twhen you've got a suitcase full of touristy knicknacks, they don't even look at the form, but the one time you've got three kilos of cocaine stashed in a teddy bear they strip search you |
| 17:40.43 | galexande | scaredy, 10am |
| 17:40.44 | galexande | ish |
| 17:40.50 | don-o | ScaredyCat: GMT-7 |
| 17:41.01 | galexande | don-o, daylight savings |
| 17:41.03 | ScaredyCat | 10:40 |
| 17:41.13 | galexande | er, i guess that's why it's not GMT-8? |
| 17:41.15 | ScaredyCat | so they could ship today.. |
| 17:41.28 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:41.58 | galexande | i have a suspicion that whomever is receiving the package in the US hasn't given the slightest consideration to how they will charge 1000 credit cards, print 1000 invoices and shipping labels, and fold 1000 cardboard boxes |
| 17:42.13 | galexande | and that the resto f today is going to be used deciding where to start :) |
| 17:42.26 | ScaredyCat | galexande: I only care about the first 8 :) |
| 17:42.34 | galexande | heh |
| 17:42.54 | galexande | ugh what if they saw how popular the black/silver was and decided not to ship any orange in the first batch |
| 17:42.57 | galexande | i could have fucked myself!! |
| 17:43.44 | ScaredyCat | naaa.. yours will be worth 10 x ours in years to come |
| 17:43.58 | ScaredyCat | hink of it as your pension :) |
| 17:44.01 | ScaredyCat | t |
| 17:44.20 | galexande | hoahaha |
| 17:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 17:45.40 | don-o | Sean writes as if its the CC charge that we're all waiting for. |
| 17:45.48 | CM | Damn.. Shipped later this week. I'll be away for two weeks starting saturday.. :( |
| 17:45.57 | ScaredyCat | yeah... we don't really care if they do that bit |
| 17:46.06 | ScaredyCat | CM: me too :'( |
| 17:46.21 | ScaredyCat | I just know it'll arrive next week |
| 17:46.37 | galexande | my assumption is that they've spent the last 7 days "oh, in order to turn credit card numbres into cash on hand, we have to contact a merchant bank? what a lot of work!" so they've freshly been reminded by merchant bankers that they can't charge until they're ready to ship |
| 17:46.39 | ScaredyCat | and get left on the dorrstep by the ups guy |
| 17:46.57 | ferric | so does anyone have recommendations for a good socket 939 motherboard? |
| 17:47.12 | galexande | scaredy, you could leave a note on the door asking him to leave it in your shed or whatever |
| 17:47.13 | pitux | firefox can work on openMoko? |
| 17:47.21 | galexande | pitux, if you have that kind of patience sure. |
| 17:47.46 | pitux | galexandre gecko will be low on openMoko? |
| 17:47.48 | ScaredyCat | galexande: a big sign, saying "please leave that expensive kit in the shed".... |
| 17:48.01 | ScaredyCat | ".. oh and take the sign down too please" |
| 17:48.04 | galexande | hahaha |
| 17:48.29 | galexande | pitux, well firefox on my box eats 300MB just to say hello, and the neo only has 128MB RAM |
| 17:48.33 | galexande | and i don't think you want to swap on SD |
| 17:48.41 | don-o | ha |
| 17:48.57 | SpeedEvil | Swapping over SD isn't a problwm. |
| 17:49.01 | galexande | presumably someone will figure out how to compile gecko to only need 128MB of ram, but |
| 17:49.06 | galexande | hahahah i was wondering how long that would take speedevil |
| 17:49.08 | SpeedEvil | After doing the numbers. |
| 17:49.24 | galexande | you have to forgive speedevil, he inherited his computer from his grandpa |
| 17:49.26 | SpeedEvil | I can only say that I am at the moment using a laptop with 128M RAM. |
| 17:49.27 | ScaredyCat | ff eats memory anyway... |
| 17:49.35 | pitux | I need xulrunner work on openMoko |
| 17:49.37 | SpeedEvil | And have 16 tabs open. |
| 17:49.46 | SpeedEvil | And it's quite snappy enough. |
| 17:49.51 | ScaredyCat | you only hve to leave it running for a day or two and it's eaten all the ram in the building |
| 17:50.07 | SpeedEvil | So, I need to click 'restart' every day. |
| 17:50.09 | galexande | pitux, the most likely browser that will seem snappy to non-octogenarians is ultimately derived from konqueror/safari, so you might want to see if those do whtat you need |
| 17:50.52 | SpeedEvil | Tab switching in well under .2s is just fine IMO. |
| 17:51.23 | galexande | i can barely stand firefox's slowness on my ibook |
| 17:51.41 | daMaestro | we can always use dillo |
| 17:51.48 | SpeedFire_ | or lynx. |
| 17:52.14 | daMaestro | doesn't the latest links support images and javascript also? |
| 17:52.50 | SpeedFire_ | images ? maybe using the aalib then ? ^^ |
| 17:53.47 | pitux | openMoko can play flash?? |
| 17:53.55 | pitux | openMoko/neo1973 of course :p |
| 17:54.45 | ScaredyCat | does dillo support XMLHttpRequest ? |
| 17:55.00 | galexande | hahahahahah scaredycat, does msdos support SMP? |
| 17:55.15 | pitux | oO |
| 17:55.20 | ScaredyCat | I thought dillo was supposed to be quite good. |
| 17:55.30 | compbrain | heh |
| 17:55.46 | galexande | maybe it's grown substantially, but last time i used it it was basically lynx with a GUI |
| 17:55.46 | pitux | neo1973 can play flash or not? |
| 17:55.54 | galexande | no java,javascript, barely tables |
| 17:56.26 | galexande | it reminded me of chimera |
| 17:56.47 | daMaestro | http://links.twibright.com/features.php |
| 17:57.18 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 17:57.21 | pitux | neo1973 can play flash or not? |
| 17:57.40 | galexande | ugh it looks like simply updating dillo to gtk2 would be a project |
| 17:58.08 | SpeedEvil | pitux: not simply |
| 17:58.09 | galexande | pitux, my guess is that macromedia or whoever don't make a flash product for arm-linux |
| 17:58.18 | SpeedEvil | galexande: yup |
| 17:58.20 | galexande | pitux, but mplayer would probably still read flv |
| 17:58.49 | galexande | it would be nice to have the smallest browser that supports CSS and just enough javascript to manage a submit button |
| 17:58.53 | galexande | and i think that's what khtml/webkit provides |
| 17:59.05 | pitux | thx |
| 17:59.09 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 17:59.16 | daMaestro | someone that knows ipkg needs to package http://links.twibright.com/download.php |
| 17:59.17 | galexande | there is an open source flash player that does the vector graphics crap |
| 17:59.20 | galexande | but it's hit-or-miss |
| 17:59.23 | pitux | but there is open source flash player? |
| 17:59.37 | cjb_ie | gnash, but it's not really useful yet |
| 17:59.44 | juri_ | it still needs help. |
| 18:00.03 | daMaestro | well, adobe just setup their own repo for the linux flash player |
| 18:00.09 | daMaestro | so maybe they will fire off some arm builds |
| 18:00.15 | daMaestro | afaik, there *are* arm builds |
| 18:00.17 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:00.36 | cjb_ie | meh, even flash for linux x86 is horribly flaky ime |
| 18:00.55 | zipola | Gnash to the rescue. Too bad it's not yet usable. |
| 18:00.56 | ScaredyCat | it's firefox |
| 18:01.16 | holycow | cjb, yes it is *nod* |
| 18:01.24 | zipola | I find Flash quite useless. It's mainly used for streaming video. |
| 18:01.27 | ScaredyCat | opera works fine, ff always locks up if I try to close a page with flash |
| 18:01.41 | holycow | zipola, i used to be a web developer, i totally agree |
| 18:01.49 | holycow | i think its gratuitous and unnecessary |
| 18:01.55 | MacNorth | it's the opposite for me. flash in ff is the most usable/closeable/watchable than in opera and konq |
| 18:01.59 | cjb | cjb_ie: wah, change your nick :) |
| 18:02.01 | holycow | and incredibly bad for the things people use it for, say like flash games |
| 18:02.22 | ScaredyCat | MacNorth: It's usable, so long as I don;t go to another page |
| 18:02.23 | cjb_ie | cjb: meh, i already changed it from cjb about 5 years ago |
| 18:02.28 | holycow | streaming video is it's killer use tho |
| 18:02.44 | MacNorth | tabs, pages, web-rss readers and flash all ok with ff and flash over here :-) |
| 18:02.46 | cjb_ie | and my domain matches this one, so on floss projects it makes it easier for people to correlate mail with irc |
| 18:02.59 | holycow | the one single thing that flash has as a plus is it lets designers create interfaces without being programmers |
| 18:03.16 | holycow | it would be neat to generalize that out to some toolkit like qt or whateve |
| 18:03.34 | zipola | Aren't the tools closed and proprietary? |
| 18:03.42 | daMaestro | yes |
| 18:03.44 | cjb_ie | cjb: clearly, the only way out is a fight to the death. |
| 18:03.49 | holycow | yeah i'm just talking about useability |
| 18:04.29 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 18:07.29 | sandos | ScaredyCat: have you tried ff nightly? 3.0 seems to be much better when it comes to RAM usage. And running JS |
| 18:07.46 | sandos | browsing on informationfreeway.org makes ff 2.0 unusable in a very short time |
| 18:11.13 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DBE08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:11.23 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Shipping update |
| 18:11.26 | sannes | counter |
| 18:11.27 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 08:54:16 (0.371±0.4 days) (1754;248) |
| 18:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADCE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko mnmn (n=chatzill@213.148.30.66) |
| 18:14.41 | ScaredyCat | sandos: no, might do that |
| 18:15.55 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 18:16.43 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Shipping update |
| 18:18.58 | tuukkah | aloril, "0.371±0.4 days" %-) |
| 18:19.12 | galexande | yay, we'll get tracking numbers! |
| 18:19.19 | galexande | ups will have never seen such a flood as this |
| 18:20.00 | galexande | BUT IT WAS IN INDIANAPOLIS 5 MINUTES AGO, WHY IS IT STILL THERE |
| 18:20.07 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 18:21.57 | MacNorth | too bad the phones don't report their coords. you wouldn't need tracking via UPS, just watch the phone come to you :-) turn it on, box it up, send it |
| 18:21.58 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 18:22.15 | galexande | heh |
| 18:22.21 | Qwell[] | what's the update? |
| 18:22.27 | cjb_ie | MacNorth: well, when power management works, sure. |
| 18:22.43 | MacNorth | like i said, 'too bad...' |
| 18:23.00 | galexande | we'd read about it on cnn, "shipping authorities detonated a box containing prototype cell phones destined for the US when all five hundred of them began to vibrate at the same time." |
| 18:23.11 | sandos | ;) |
| 18:23.11 | MacNorth | heh |
| 18:23.12 | galexande | "at this time we do not believe there is a risk of a follow-up terrorist attack, but stay tuned!" |
| 18:23.13 | cjb_ie | l4rs: you the same l4rs as on openstreetmap? |
| 18:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A573B4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:24.35 | ScaredyCat | wtf |
| 18:24.50 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 18:25.56 | l4rs | cjb_ie: i'm in the #osm channel, if you mean that |
| 18:26.26 | cjb_ie | l4rs: that's the one. 'lo |
| 18:26.36 | cjb_ie | there's three of us in both now. |
| 18:26.43 | galexande | dammit scaredy i slap enough cats already |
| 18:27.24 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
| 18:28.40 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:29.17 | daMaestro | http://www.freeopenmoko.com/ ... FIC should work to shut down that site |
| 18:29.37 | daMaestro | it is obviously a fraud... "testimony" that people have already gotten their neo |
| 18:29.49 | sandos | haha |
| 18:29.55 | sandos | nice one! |
| 18:30.22 | ScaredyCat | galexande: that's called 'Spanking' and it's not a cat it's a 'monkey' |
| 18:30.26 | SpeedFire_ | Ah, stupid surveys. Bah. |
| 18:31.00 | SpeedFire_ | The domain was registered 5 days ago... |
| 18:31.07 | galexande | hahahah is freeopenmoko a joke? |
| 18:31.22 | SpeedFire_ | And all the entries in the whois are fake. Of course. |
| 18:31.22 | sandos | "contact the Elliot" ? is elliot a thing? |
| 18:31.32 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
| 18:31.35 | galexande | we're really running into a whole cottage market of people who try to sell anything that gets slashdotted. |
| 18:31.38 | galexande | or dugged |
| 18:32.19 | galexande | Safe, Secure, Strong |
| 18:32.20 | SpeedFire_ | Registering a domain name is cheap, I'm sure if only 1-2 people get trapped, they already start winning money. |
| 18:32.31 | SpeedFire_ | earning* |
| 18:33.08 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 18:33.09 | galexande | i have a suspicion that the fraud isn't even the main point, that the main point is search engine mining |
| 18:33.42 | galexande | registrars are pieces of shit |
| 18:33.49 | ScaredyCat | yeah, it's Apple |
| 18:34.36 | ScaredyCat | gonna redirect to goats.ex |
| 18:36.53 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 18:36.57 | ScaredyCat | anyone know the shipping from address.. or have an address int he same area(ish) |
| 18:37.19 | phrozen77 | ScaredyCat, goatse.cz, kthx :P |
| 18:37.23 | jadams | read it |
| 18:37.32 | jadams | argh, wrong chan again...this is getting ridiculous |
| 18:38.39 | MacNorth | california |
| 18:38.44 | MacNorth | Freemont, iirc |
| 18:39.27 | myk_ | hmm, i hope i'm in the first batch |
| 18:39.48 | galexande | yay! goatse.cz!! |
| 18:40.21 | phrozen77 | for teh win |
| 18:40.21 | phrozen77 | :P |
| 18:40.55 | ScaredyCat | that's not the kind of win I want |
| 18:41.50 | ScaredyCat | UPS Worldwide Express |
| 18:41.50 | ScaredyCat | Guaranteed by 12:00 P.M. |
| 18:41.50 | ScaredyCat | Thursday 19 July 2007 |
| 18:42.02 | ScaredyCat | please ship it today, PLEASE |
| 18:42.20 | ScaredyCat | Latest Pickup Time: 3:30pm |
| 18:44.11 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 18:44.50 | *** join/#openmoko christian_ (n=chatzill@Ye580.y.pppool.de) |
| 18:46.19 | myk_ | pitux: why do you need xulrunner on openmoko? |
| 18:47.07 | myk_ | pitux: FWIW, i'm going to try to port minimo to openmoko, but it doesn't have everything xulrunner has in it |
| 18:47.21 | pitux | myk_ good! |
| 18:47.27 | pitux | good luck :) |
| 18:48.23 | ScaredyCat | minimo seems a good optin |
| 18:48.34 | myk_ | pitux: thanks; it shouldn't be an impossible task, given that minimo used to compile on Linux |
| 18:49.41 | myk_ | "Our target for Minimo is a Linux device with around 64 MB of physical memory. As we mentioned above, Minimo runs at around 25MB of RSS. Above this, you will need a Linux distribution, GTK, and X Windows. We have been using Familiar and GPE with much success in this configuration." - http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT7396996719.html |
| 18:51.09 | ScaredyCat | it's on the 770/800, no? |
| 18:52.44 | galexande | yay |
| 18:52.51 | galexande | n770 uses opera mostly? |
| 18:54.27 | ScaredyCat | s/on/available/ |
| 18:54.46 | juri_ | i've got minimo on my 770. |
| 18:55.42 | galexande | that's 2004, myk |
| 18:55.55 | sandos | so, shipping to the US means no additional tax on the GTA01? Its included in the 300$ ? |
| 18:56.17 | galexande | sandos, for us usians, sure |
| 18:56.25 | ScaredyCat | grrrr |
| 18:56.38 | MacNorth | USAwesome |
| 18:57.42 | galexande | the only cat tax i'm willign to pay is wiping hairballs off the floor |
| 18:58.49 | *** join/#openmoko paron_work (n=user@66.100.151.132) |
| 19:00.36 | SpeedEvil | sandos: sales tax - if in same state AIUI |
| 19:01.11 | myk_ | galexande: yeah, it's 2004, and things may have changed; just providing a reference |
| 19:01.20 | myk_ | pitux: what do you want to build on top of xulrunner? |
| 19:02.56 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@host81-150-196-5.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 19:03.00 | paron_work | :o |
| 19:03.51 | pitux | myk_ nothing at the moment |
| 19:05.43 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 19:10.56 | sandos | galexande: yes, of course. But if I either travel there or know someone there.. I might be able to do something about customs.. =) |
| 19:14.21 | jgm | As it turns out I'm flying from the UK to the US next week, so will probably be able to wave to my Neo as it goes past me mid-Atlantic |
| 19:14.56 | ferric | hey, can you grab one while waving and drop it off in NY? :) |
| 19:15.21 | jgm | I'll give it a damned good shot :) |
| 19:16.34 | Stephmw | jgm: careful... that kind of language on a plane can get you arrested. |
| 19:17.01 | jgm | Probably true |
| 19:17.13 | jgm | Along with me taking too much toothpaste on the 'plane and other threats to national security |
| 19:17.13 | cjb_ie | just don't make a call on a sky phone and start the conversation with "hi, jack!" |
| 19:17.43 | Stephmw | cjb_ie: another Bruce reader :) |
| 19:17.47 | don-o | haha |
| 19:18.21 | cjb_ie | i checked in at manchester on sunday - was ridiculous. the checkin girl took my toothpaste, but told me it was okay to take two badges from the conference in my hand baggage, with great big sharp spiky needles in them... she said they'd get through security, and she was right. |
| 19:18.47 | cjb_ie | Stephmw: bruce? |
| 19:18.52 | jgm | Did you see this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqoQOKeYM-g |
| 19:19.26 | cjb_ie | flash bork for me i'm afraid |
| 19:20.06 | Stephmw | cjb_ie: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/07/canadians_are_a.html |
| 19:20.21 | Stephmw | cjb_ie: his 'security blog' |
| 19:22.09 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.11.186) |
| 19:22.54 | Stephmw | cjb_ie: and be careful if you plan on taking photos in the US.. http://blog.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher/2007/07/secret_buildings_you_may_not_p.html |
| 19:23.44 | jgm | Cheer up, the world may be shit but at least we all plan to build a better 'phone :) |
| 19:24.17 | Stephmw | give it another 10 years and such a phone might land you in jail... </pessimism> |
| 19:24.25 | *** join/#openmoko T1 (n=tv@38.98.11.186) |
| 19:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@m155e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 19:25.43 | jgm | Stephmw: by that time the Neo will have camouflage to make it look like an iPhone so that won't be a problem |
| 19:26.15 | galexande | we should be all about this...as nerds, we're presumably more aware that the planet is overpopulated than your average joe |
| 19:26.26 | galexande | so we should be excited about draconian laws, because they might result in more people being executed |
| 19:26.46 | jgm | galexande: except that they also increase the chance of us getting executed |
| 19:26.49 | cjb_ie | Stephmw: that's nothing new, feynman and a couple of his physicist friends got arrested for taking photos back in the 50s |
| 19:27.08 | galexande | jgm, at times like these it is necessary to give up some personal freedoms for the Survival Of The Species!!! |
| 19:27.29 | jgm | Like the freedom to breathe, that type of thing? |
| 19:27.35 | galexande | you're catching on already! |
| 19:27.44 | jgm | Sod The Species, more like |
| 19:27.51 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 19:28.22 | Stephmw | galexande: "... for the survival of the One Race, the USian Race" |
| 19:28.59 | jgm | So do you think in a week/month/whatever when we all have Neos we'll still be in here talking rubbish or will we be working away on our own projects to make it a wonderful 'phone? |
| 19:29.06 | jgm | (And before you answer bear in mind that this is logged :)) |
| 19:30.33 | galexande | steph, nah, i'm all about disproportionately killing off the rich white folk :) |
| 19:30.56 | galexande | jgm, i'm going to be working away on my own project to make it a totally unusable phone :) |
| 19:31.17 | cel | http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/17/#20070717-sick-not-insane |
| 19:34.29 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=orzo@71.16.211.2) |
| 19:35.26 | orzo | any cards been charged yet? |
| 19:36.46 | juri_ | not mine, as of an hour ago. |
| 19:36.55 | Stephmw | cel: ouch. |
| 19:38.03 | aloril | (script) planet: Harald "LaF0rge" Welte: Sick but not insane (yet) http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/17#20070717-sick-not-insane |
| 19:38.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[UI_Improvements/fr]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[Main_Page/fr]] |
| 19:38.16 | marsan | Can one send SMS with the openmoko phone? |
| 19:38.28 | galexande | wow, every time i make a joke about how bad things must be at openmoko.com, harald posts a blog entry describing the fact that i wasn't exaggerating :) |
| 19:38.53 | galexande | did i not just say a couple hours ago that they have spent the last two weeks figuring out what a 'merchant bank' is? |
| 19:38.58 | Stephmw | galexande: you must have inside info... give! :) |
| 19:39.31 | galexande | so far i'm two for three... i'm only awaiting confirmation that they have kernel hackers packing boxes in california and printing shipping labels :) |
| 19:41.46 | don-o | cool. Harold is dishing out the real scoop. |
| 19:42.42 | summatusmentis | is there any way for us to show our support to him? |
| 19:42.47 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:43.19 | galexande | someone has to teach him how to delegate |
| 19:43.36 | juri_ | simple. deligate cashing the checks to me... ;) |
| 19:43.43 | don-o | chinese-only CC. haha |
| 19:43.44 | galexande | which unfortunately starts with finding staff you can work withh |
| 19:43.59 | summatusmentis | which, apparently, seems to be the problem |
| 19:44.28 | galexande | we have basically the same probblem at my job, but we're all happy-go-lucky about it so it doesn't hurt |
| 19:44.55 | galexande | my boss gave up on finding people he can work with so we're just two coders and a salesman, with like a dozen shipping products |
| 19:45.00 | marsan | ok, ill try again, do Openmoko have SMS-applications at this point? |
| 19:45.26 | summatusmentis | marsan: there's not much beyond a dialer(maybe) at this point |
| 19:45.29 | don-o | marsan: thats a big negatory |
| 19:45.33 | galexande | marsan, software = no |
| 19:45.59 | marsan | so at this point SMS isnt possible to send/recive with a openmoko phone? |
| 19:46.04 | buz | i dont get why he doesnt order gear from HK though |
| 19:46.30 | galexande | buz, he's a kernel hacker, he knows two strategies: order online from german stores, or ask someone else to get it for him |
| 19:46.56 | buz | maybe we should get someone to order stuff for him then ;) |
| 19:47.13 | galexande | there are probably a ton of people in taiwan who know how to get stuff from HK or whereever, but he doesn't care to know how to find them and learn to communicate with them |
| 19:47.31 | buz | well neither would i |
| 19:47.33 | don-o | who is FAE? |
| 19:47.34 | galexande | exactly :) |
| 19:47.38 | buz | but googling for stores is easy enough |
| 19:47.52 | buz | and getting german stores to ship abroad isnt always an easy exercise |
| 19:48.09 | galexande | marsan, it's possible to do anythhing with an openmoko phone |
| 19:48.41 | buz | i've seen worse incompetence than the one described though |
| 19:48.56 | marsan | galexande, hehe, i see your point. But me for a end user, that dosent know any programing languages at all, it could be kinda hard? |
| 19:48.56 | buz | and eventually, the company DID go bankrupt |
| 19:49.09 | galexande | yeah i think we all have, i think he's only upset because he's accepted responsibility for all these tasks only to find that delegation has failed him |
| 19:49.24 | buz | probably |
| 19:49.28 | galexande | marsan, if you don't program, don't get a neo for at least 3 months |
| 19:50.21 | marsan | i know...i just fishing for how far the develop have come at this point..be sure, i wont order one before GTA02.. |
| 19:50.49 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@host81-150-196-5.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 19:50.57 | jgm | marsan: we're all waiting for the 'phones and the core developers are busy building a company that can buy/ship 'phones so at current not far |
| 19:51.02 | galexande | marsan, kernel and drivers appear to be done, userland libraries and daemons to work with them appear to be started, and everything else is a big question mark, a couple flow charts and so on |
| 19:51.07 | buz | marsan: it boots |
| 19:51.22 | buz | and shows some very rudimentary gui |
| 19:51.46 | jgm | (That said there are some patches for SMS in bugzilla that look interesting, I'll be trying them out pretty sharpish once I get one of those physical phone things that I'm hearing a lot about these days) |
| 19:52.13 | marsan | hehe..i see. |
| 19:52.47 | galexande | yeah i still have illusions about porting my phone number over to a gsm provider within a couple weeks and switching over |
| 19:53.42 | buz | galexande: around here that is a surprisingly straight forward process |
| 19:53.54 | buz | (given contract details allow cancelling of contract |
| 19:54.12 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 19:54.13 | galexande | buz, sure but it means a lot of intense hacking to get the phone into a state i personally would consider usable :) |
| 19:54.21 | *** join/#openmoko nsirota (n=nsirota@denali.ccs.neu.edu) |
| 19:54.27 | summatusmentis | galexande: no ETF? |
| 19:54.29 | galexande | i think there are other people with this mindset so it may only take a monthh or so for dialer to stabilize |
| 19:54.34 | galexande | summa, bwuh? |
| 19:54.36 | buz | oh so the issue is the phone, not the provider |
| 19:54.45 | summatusmentis | galexande: early termination fee |
| 19:54.49 | galexande | buz, yeah i was just expressing my optimism :) |
| 19:54.59 | galexande | summa, my contract is bogus, but more importantly, it expired already anyways. |
| 19:55.04 | ynezz | so what's the status of shipping? :) |
| 19:55.15 | summatusmentis | galexande: oh, nice |
| 19:55.21 | galexande | ynezz, by the end of the week we'll have credit card bills and tracking digits if we're among the first 500 |
| 19:55.29 | ynezz | wow! |
| 19:55.46 | galexande | ynezz, 500 of the fist 1000 phones are in the us |
| 19:55.54 | juri_ | something tells me i didn't make it to within the first 500. |
| 19:56.14 | juri_ | i'm just not that lucky. ;) |
| 19:56.26 | ynezz | hm i think we've placed order as number around 300 |
| 19:56.59 | galexande | summa, sprint/verizon? |
| 19:57.10 | ynezz | BTW what's latest know ticket number? |
| 19:57.15 | ynezz | s/know/known/ |
| 19:57.22 | don-o | where does Harold normally live? |
| 19:57.37 | galexande | ynezz, at least 3395 |
| 19:57.39 | gcb77_ | Think they're going to process them based on order #? |
| 19:57.41 | summatusmentis | galexande: US Cellular, smallish carrier |
| 19:57.43 | ynezz | nice |
| 19:57.47 | summatusmentis | galexande: but yeah, CDMA |
| 19:57.53 | galexande | summa, sowwy |
| 19:58.33 | summatusmentis | so I'm waiting for a while, seeing GTA02 be released, and then maybe waiting a while for the software to get where I want it |
| 19:58.48 | summatusmentis | otherwise, I might just wait till GTA0{<2} |
| 19:59.02 | galexande | huh looks like greenphone is gsm too |
| 19:59.09 | Stephmw | galexande: it is |
| 19:59.28 | Stephmw | no small players want to do CDMA, it's too expensive |
| 19:59.53 | galexande | man, for years i have been trying to understand cdma/tdma/gsm/amps/pcs/... |
| 20:00.03 | galexande | it turns out wikipedia has great entries on all of these things |
| 20:00.07 | marsan | hehe |
| 20:00.10 | galexande | to undo decades of telco fud |
| 20:00.26 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
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| 20:18.59 | orzo | what things? |
| 20:19.05 | orzo | oh |
| 20:19.09 | orzo | oops, was scrolled |
| 20:19.38 | orzo | galexande, what things does wikipedia have great entries on to undo telco fud? CDMA and GSM ? |
| 20:19.51 | ScaredyCat | cheese |
| 20:19.58 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck_ (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
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| 20:24.42 | don-o | how do i get the number of items on the current page from the result of a pagingating_find |
| 20:24.46 | don-o | sorry wrong channel. |
| 20:25.05 | ScaredyCat | good job |
| 20:25.05 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 20:26.14 | galexande | orzo, yeah, specifically the articles on TDMA and CDMA are great |
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| 20:26.54 | paron_work | er |
| 20:27.01 | paron_work | if I didn't get a mail confirmation |
| 20:27.05 | paron_work | should I be concerned? |
| 20:27.19 | galexande | paron, if you haven't seen a YES_I_DO mail then you're probably fucked |
| 20:27.25 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=huhh@3e70c97c.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:27.34 | galexande | but if you've sent a YES_I_DO, then there is no expected response to that one. |
| 20:28.33 | paron_work | :( |
| 20:28.36 | ScaredyCat | hell, we've seen the YES_I_DO emails and we're still fucked ;) |
| 20:29.03 | paron_work | but I gave my credit card infos last tuesday and everything |
| 20:29.14 | mintee | define fucked? |
| 20:29.25 | mintee | galexande |
| 20:29.29 | galexande | mintee, beats me |
| 20:29.33 | mintee | heh |
| 20:29.46 | galexande | but my suspicion is that they're overloaded enough that at the moment any order that didn't go thorugh no-problems is getting punted |
| 20:29.47 | galexande | just a guess |
| 20:29.57 | ScaredyCat | paron_work: lost of us gave cc details over a week ago |
| 20:29.59 | galexande | anyways, probably less than a 2 month lead time on the next batch of devices... |
| 20:30.09 | mintee | that's very professional of them :P |
| 20:30.26 | ckuethe | they're learning a lot about how to do this sort of thing |
| 20:30.30 | galexande | well, i'm excited that they're failures at distribution, it makes it plausible that they're good engineers :) |
| 20:30.40 | paron_work | ScaredyCat: "cc details"? |
| 20:30.44 | ScaredyCat | galexande: no... |
| 20:30.47 | paron_work | cc being? |
| 20:30.51 | ScaredyCat | cc = credit card |
| 20:30.53 | ckuethe | i'd rather have no communication and have a working product suddenly show up than lots of fluffy communication and no product |
| 20:30.55 | paron_work | ah |
| 20:31.11 | ScaredyCat | ckuethe: but we know that wont happen |
| 20:31.37 | mintee | it's a good thing when your credit card companys website for the past 24 hours gives you an Error 500 with trying to log in, right? |
| 20:31.53 | ewon | nice |
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| 20:32.26 | galexande | ckuethe, s/working// and we're in business :) |
| 20:32.26 | ScaredyCat | basically the guys doing the work are programmers who appear to have no organisational skills and/or are being overworked with little support. |
| 20:32.46 | bassinbo1 | when is early order for v2 open? |
| 20:32.50 | *** join/#openmoko polac (n=polac@dennica.yok.utu.fi) |
| 20:33.01 | ScaredyCat | early order? |
| 20:33.15 | bassinbo1 | yeah, I would like to place an order early, lol |
| 20:33.17 | ScaredyCat | p1 isn;t shipping, give them a chance. |
| 20:33.26 | bassinbo1 | hehe |
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| 20:48.01 | sixfeet | ahoi |
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| 20:54.00 | *** join/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:54.40 | khester | so I'm trying to port my app which depends on gtkmm over to openmoko. a question: |
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| 20:56.07 | khester | The OE package that came down for gtkmm is gtkmm-2.8.3. No prob there. But that package depends on gtk+ being at least 2.8. Is there a reason the OpenMoko folks specifically pull an old version (2.6.10) of gtk+ down from OE? |
| 20:57.57 | zecke | khester: google why gtk+ 2.6.x gets used on embedded devices (like the nokia). |
| 20:58.40 | khester | yeah - If heard some of those things, but I've also read that 2.10 fixed all that. true? |
| 20:59.00 | zecke | khester: 2.6 was the last version not using cairo |
| 20:59.18 | khester | It seems strange for the OE folks to include a gtkmm which requires a version of gtk+ not in their repository |
| 20:59.41 | zecke | khester: latest (unstable?) cairo releases have this famous surface cache which brings great performance improvements |
| 20:59.59 | dtx | that would be good |
| 21:01.04 | *** join/#openmoko evanpro_ (n=evan@bas5-montreal02-1167961911.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:02.24 | zecke | khester: I don't have an OE checkout in front of me. But do you say we don't have a gtk+-2.8 bb file? |
| 21:02.53 | zecke | and in org.oe.dev we only have gtkmm-2.10 anyway |
| 21:04.21 | khester | zecke: i'm just starting to look at the dependancies. but when i pulled in my custom bb file that said DEPENDS = "libglademm gtkmm" the build failed while trying to make gtkmm |
| 21:04.30 | khester | zecke: the cause was: |
| 21:06.36 | khester | the do_configure step of gtkmm in bitbake. Apparently the .ac file in gtkmm is saying it requires gtk+ being at least 2.8.0. Both the gtkmm and the gtk+-2.0 got pulled down 'automagically' from OE due to bitbake dependancies. It seems strange that the gtkmm that came down wants a gtk+ that ain't there |
| 21:07.10 | khester | any advice? i'm happy to poke at this but i'm generally a bit more of a kernelish dude. learning these fancy bitbake tools is tricky ;-) |
| 21:07.51 | khester | just doing "bitbake gtkmm" shows the problem as an easy test case |
| 21:08.38 | khester | i have no great desire for the latest and greatest gtkmm, so if there is a way to pull down an older version that _can_ meet it's dependancies that would be fine with me too |
| 21:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@55.145.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 21:09.35 | mjr | score |
| 21:09.37 | mjr | oops |
| 21:11.06 | zecke | khester: we don't have gtkmm 2.8 in org.oe.dev, the only version is 2.10. You might be able to find a bb file for gtkmm-2.6(?) and then you can set PREFERRED_VERSION to 2.6 for gtkmm |
| 21:11.58 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 21:12.24 | khester | zecke: thx - i'll poke a bit - on phone now :-) |
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| 21:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DBE08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:18.33 | khester | zecke: i guess i'm going to look at where/how bitbake magically finds things. I used MokoMakefile to setup my environment originally and never specifically set where it should look for OE files. It sounds like the org.oe.dev site has 2.10 for gtkmm, but somehow when I specified "gtkmm" I got 2.8 via bitbake. Does it sound plausible to you that the source repository (wherever that gets set) ain't set to org.oe.dev? thanks for the a |
| 21:19.39 | zecke | khester: OpenMoko is using an older snapshot/revision of OE |
| 21:20.25 | khester | zecke: any guesses on how painful it would be if i pointed my environment at top-of-tree OE? i'm guessing that would hurt if i want to mix and match with moko |
| 21:21.15 | zecke | khester: I don't know the current status but the plan was to merge after Guadec. Most of it is in sync anyway |
| 21:22.02 | khester | zecke: oh - interesting, okay, i'll play around a bit then. at the very least i'll learn a bit about these wheels within wheels within autoconf within bitbake ;-) |
| 21:23.28 | zecke | :) |
| 21:27.44 | ScaredyCat | anti terror police get access to london congestion charge cameras |
| 21:29.35 | ScaredyCat | wtf ... "documents that could be used in acts of terrorism" - that's a new crime on me :/ |
| 21:29.56 | dtx | Thinking the wrong way is a crime in our modern world. |
| 21:30.45 | ScaredyCat | seen Johnny English? |
| 21:31.00 | dtx | Johnny English? |
| 21:31.05 | ScaredyCat | with the French bloke wanting to turn the UK into a prison |
| 21:31.11 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_two (n=nnmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 21:31.14 | cjb_ie | ScaredyCat: it could be argued that underground timetables "could be used in acts of terrorism" |
| 21:31.17 | ScaredyCat | film, Rowan Atkinson |
| 21:31.25 | cjb_ie | and john malkovich as the french guy |
| 21:31.32 | ScaredyCat | bondesque spoof |
| 21:31.33 | *** join/#openmoko orzo7 (n=orzo@70.89.88.195) |
| 21:31.44 | ScaredyCat | cjb_ie: exactly.. |
| 21:31.58 | cjb_ie | yup, and my gf at the time didn't believe that it was a bond spoof |
| 21:31.59 | ScaredyCat | although he did ave 'plans for a rocket' |
| 21:32.24 | *** part/#openmoko devestate (n=devestat@r02amsdm2.desktop.umr.edu) |
| 21:32.41 | ScaredyCat | any rocket hobbyists should be shitting themselves right about now |
| 21:33.02 | ScaredyCat | ah yes, the 'french guy' ;) |
| 21:34.26 | SpeedEvil | From the brief glance I saw, the nozzle looked way off. |
| 21:34.40 | SpeedEvil | _way_ too divergant on the output side. |
| 21:35.02 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 21:35.06 | cjb_ie | plans for a rocket? who's this now? |
| 21:35.57 | SpeedEvil | Someone arrested going out of the UK. |
| 21:38.03 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[S3C2410_Steppingstone]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[PCF50606]] [[Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] [[S3C2410]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware_Debugging]] [[Category:Neo1973_Phase_2_related]] and other changes |
| 21:38.58 | Elrond | Huh, lots of hw updates? |
| 21:39.10 | SpeedEvil | Naah |
| 21:39.13 | SpeedEvil | catspam |
| 21:40.29 | Elrond | Ahh. |
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| 22:16.43 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Werner Almesberger <werner at openmoko.org> Re: Again: Advertising thoughts |
| 22:17.59 | galexande | how does aloril decide who is notable enough to notify us of |
| 22:18.16 | Qwell[] | galexande: AI |
| 22:18.33 | galexande | i suppose that's the Werner mentioned in Harald's blog |
| 22:18.53 | Kensan | galexande: Yes, he is one of the core devs. |
| 22:19.08 | galexande | i wonder if it would be excessive for aloril to provide a url for the archive :) |
| 22:20.25 | Kensan | galexande: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007235.html |
| 22:21.23 | *** join/#openmoko cody__ (n=codyl@adsl-71-142-89-220.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:21.25 | SpeedEvil | Look up Core TEam on the wiki |
| 22:24.13 | holycow | what? |
| 22:24.20 | holycow | moko has a higher resolution screen? |
| 22:24.25 | holycow | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 22:24.34 | holycow | higher resolution than an iphone? |
| 22:25.02 | miip | sure |
| 22:25.25 | holycow | all things considered, moko is the better phone |
| 22:25.35 | miip | moko? |
| 22:25.46 | holycow | i would of thought for the apple premium you pay you would get a better lcd than what moko has |
| 22:25.54 | miip | you mean neo1973 |
| 22:26.07 | Tronic | I wonder why anyone would buy an iPhone. |
| 22:26.09 | Qwell[] | openmoko can have whatever resolution you want :) |
| 22:26.20 | holycow | the one listed in the wiki, yes sorry i'm calling a particular model a generic name |
| 22:26.21 | Qwell[] | (in theory) |
| 22:26.21 | holycow | :) |
| 22:26.47 | holycow | although i relaly like the word moko |
| 22:26.59 | Tronic | It is expensive and locked to AT&T, it completely prevents tinkering and it lacks too many important features. |
| 22:27.02 | Qwell[] | Is there a FAQ on where the name came from? |
| 22:27.02 | galexande | holycow, i really feel that way too, but it all comes down to the software :) |
| 22:27.09 | holycow | right right |
| 22:27.21 | holycow | Tronic, well even just reading the wiki comparison |
| 22:27.27 | galexande | i think 'openmoko' is a dumb name :) |
| 22:27.27 | holycow | i mean iphone edges out in a few areas |
| 22:27.30 | holycow | but not very many |
| 22:27.51 | holycow | i really was surprised to read about the screen resolution considering thats really what they are selling ... the lcd |
| 22:27.59 | galexande | it seems like the camera stands out as a sore spot in the iphone, because it's not of any exceptional quality whatsoever |
| 22:28.23 | *** join/#openmoko CodyL (n=codyl@adsl-71-142-81-102.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:28.26 | holycow | i don't know anyone that actually uses their camera phone for anything resembling a quality photo tho |
| 22:28.35 | holycow | i used mine for a while then just forgot about it |
| 22:29.02 | Tronic | The Maddox rant/comparison to E70 is quite informative as well. |
| 22:29.14 | holycow | oh that was funny |
| 22:29.20 | holycow | mostly a joke but partially true |
| 22:29.27 | Qwell[] | partially? |
| 22:29.36 | Tronic | A friend of mine uses N95 as a "real" camera. |
| 22:29.50 | holycow | Qwell, well mostly it was just trash talk for comedys sake |
| 22:30.06 | Qwell[] | sure, but that doesn't make it any less true - which just adds to the comedic value :) |
| 22:30.07 | Tronic | The videos aren't very useful, but the photos are acceptable. The colors are off and the "flash" is a joke, but it works in good lighting conditions. |
| 22:30.43 | Tronic | I prefer phones without cameras in them. |
| 22:30.43 | holycow | i think cel phone cameras are great i jus think people expect too much of them |
| 22:30.59 | thomasg | Tronic, of couse you can't do high quality pictures. but the n95's camera is nearby as good as a $100 digital camera |
| 22:30.59 | holycow | they are roughly the high tech equivalent of kodak disposeable cameras |
| 22:31.17 | Tronic | A small (non-zoom, etc) camera may have some uses such as barcode reading etc, but it's still not something that I'd like to have. |
| 22:32.28 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:33.09 | holycow | can a camera be used as a barcode reader? |
| 22:33.15 | cjb | yes |
| 22:33.19 | holycow | really? |
| 22:33.20 | holycow | shazam! |
| 22:33.22 | cjb | sure |
| 22:33.22 | Qwell[] | OCR |
| 22:33.28 | holycow | oh that just solved another problem for us |
| 22:33.29 | cjb | see the mac app, delicious library |
| 22:33.29 | SpeedEvil | OBR |
| 22:33.36 | holycow | i'm writing an simple asset management utility |
| 22:33.37 | Qwell[] | more or less :p |
| 22:33.41 | cjb | but you can do better than barcodes |
| 22:33.48 | cjb | you can use rotation-invariant symbols |
| 22:33.50 | holycow | we could have a moko device sent around to all offices to do inventory |
| 22:33.55 | holycow | *hmmmmmmm* |
| 22:34.18 | SpeedEvil | Anyone happen to have a moko, that they could do a very quick test. |
| 22:34.52 | SpeedEvil | Time bzip2 -d -c out.bz >/dev/zero |
| 22:34.57 | SpeedEvil | from http://www.mauve.plus.com/out.bz2 |
| 22:35.00 | SpeedEvil | from http://www.mauve.plus.com/out1.bz2 |
| 22:35.23 | SpeedEvil | 120K and 1.2M bzip2'd articles from wikipedia. |
| 22:35.34 | Kensan | cjb: Semacode - http://semacode.org/ |
| 22:35.41 | SpeedEvil | (about 10 and 100 respectively) |
| 22:35.56 | cjb | Kensan: yup, like that |
| 22:36.36 | Kensan | cjb: something like this would be fun: http://homepages.nyu.edu/~dc788/conqwest/ |
| 22:36.56 | cesarb | I just read harald's blog... wow. Worth of thedailywtf.com |
| 22:38.24 | holycow | cedric, url? |
| 22:38.32 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-212-102.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 22:38.43 | miip | http://planet.openmoko.org/ |
| 22:38.59 | holycow | semacode is interesting btw |
| 22:39.00 | holycow | neato |
| 22:40.07 | Kensan | holycow: It is used in "print-your-ticket-at-home" kind of things (e.g. Tickets for Openair festivals etc) |
| 22:40.09 | ynezz | barcode via camera isn't that easy |
| 22:40.48 | holycow | ynezz, it doesn't sound like it, i'm still surprised by the idea |
| 22:40.57 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54891238.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:41.05 | SpeedEvil | Given adequate resolution, it's just a software problem. |
| 22:41.19 | SpeedEvil | The trivial solution is to basically implement a virtual barcode scanner. |
| 22:41.46 | SpeedEvil | You scan 20-30 times across the input image, and see if any hits result in a valid barcode. |
| 22:41.54 | *** join/#openmoko guest (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 22:41.58 | ynezz | no problem if you can scan one barcode for one minute :) |
| 22:41.59 | SpeedEvil | (in different directions) |
| 22:42.13 | SpeedEvil | You take a frame, then do it. |
| 22:42.22 | ynezz | but we have barcodes to speed-up the proccess |
| 22:42.23 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 22:42.32 | SpeedEvil | _virtual_ |
| 22:42.34 | ynezz | not all barcodes are always in good condition... |
| 22:43.09 | SpeedEvil | You take an image of the barcode, then have the software do the virtual-barcode-wand waving to get a good read |
| 22:43.29 | ynezz | and what if the image is unusable? |
| 22:43.39 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't go beep. |
| 22:43.39 | ynezz | user is going back to stock to take a new one? |
| 22:43.47 | ynezz | ah |
| 22:43.47 | SpeedEvil | This is in real time. |
| 22:44.16 | jadams | this is a dumb conversation |
| 22:44.21 | jadams | :) |
| 22:44.38 | ynezz | I'm in auto-id industry for 4+ years :) |
| 22:44.46 | jadams | SpeedEvil's description pretty much completely describes a fast working algorithm for it :) |
| 22:44.51 | jadams | we're done |
| 22:45.02 | SpeedEvil | The _right_ thing to do is to attempt to recognise an area of the image as a barcode - say an area with stripes in one direction - and then auto-rectify it to a nice square, and then squash the barcode vertically to gain signal. |
| 22:45.02 | holycow | miip, thats a funny link |
| 22:45.07 | jadams | meh, I've worked with barcodes and RFID, no semacodes yet |
| 22:45.11 | holycow | but thats par for the course in most organizations |
| 22:45.16 | Kensan | holycow: small correction: data matrices are used for the "print-your..." stuff not semacodes. |
| 22:45.16 | holycow | i've never seen a well run business |
| 22:45.19 | SpeedEvil | This can pick out _really_ dirty codes. |
| 22:45.27 | holycow | Kensan, *nod* |
| 22:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko calamous (n=harry@144.89.192.137) |
| 22:46.05 | ynezz | they would never go away |
| 22:46.08 | SpeedEvil | Not that RFID doesn't have its own issues. |
| 22:46.24 | jadams | SpeedEvil: if my work ever slows down we're pitching some RFID products to a few local companies that could scale nationally easy, but meh |
| 22:46.37 | jadams | RFID's got issues, but it's got tons of domains that it works flawlessly in :) |
| 22:46.40 | ynezz | they're gaining more attention now, with so called "direct part marking" |
| 22:46.50 | SpeedEvil | There are interesting potential products 2-3 generations out. |
| 22:46.58 | SpeedEvil | That could _really_ revolutionise things. |
| 22:47.02 | jadams | there are a few interesting products this generation :) |
| 22:47.07 | jadams | but you're right |
| 22:47.08 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 22:47.18 | SpeedEvil | But $1 vs $.01 is a _big_ difference. |
| 22:47.25 | jadams | drop the price < USD$0.08 per part and it gets crazy cool |
| 22:47.28 | jadams | yeah |
| 22:47.34 | ynezz | it will |
| 22:47.38 | jadams | I know |
| 22:47.50 | SpeedEvil | Stuff like auto-ordering as you throw stuff in the bin. |
| 22:48.57 | calamous | Has anyone heard news about the phones shipping? |
| 22:48.59 | Kensan | Interesting RFID-stuff that LaF0rge has worked on: http://www.openbeacon.org/ |
| 22:49.50 | Kensan | calamous: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007210.html |
| 22:49.54 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 22:50.16 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: do you happen to know _where_ those nordic chips are avialable - I haven't found any disties. |
| 22:50.45 | happycube | yay!!! |
| 22:51.11 | calamous | Kensan: ty |
| 22:52.25 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: sorry, I don't. |
| 22:52.40 | SpeedEvil | Annoying - they look like fun. |
| 22:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 22:54.35 | happycube | someone set the topic to say the phones have cleared customs |
| 22:54.45 | Qwell[] | #openmoko is -t |
| 22:54.57 | Qwell[] | ie; you can do it |
| 22:55.33 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: google got me this http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=705 |
| 22:55.40 | *** topic/#openmoko by happycube -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; First batch of phones shipping this week! ; If you ordered early, reply YES_I_DO (or CANCEL) to mail asking confirmation (note: you will not get a response to YES_I_DO) |
| 22:55.54 | *** topic/#openmoko by happycube -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; First batch of phones have cleared customs and are shipping this week! ; If you ordered early, reply YES_I_DO (or CANCEL) to mail asking confirmation (note: you will not get a response to YES_I_DO) |
| 22:56.01 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/; Shipping date projected at 2007-07-24 (phones are in the states, and have cleared customs) If you ordered early, reply YES_I_DO (or CANCEL) to mail asking confirmation (note: you will not get a response to YES_I_DO) |
| 22:56.10 | happycube | cool |
| 22:56.20 | happycube | where'd the 7/24 bit come from? |
| 22:56.30 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: searching for "NRF24L01" may yield some results to your liking... |
| 22:57.29 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: yeah - I was looking more for bare chips. |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-206-249-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:59.08 | ynezz | 24.7. ? |
| 22:59.35 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I meant to trim that |
| 22:59.59 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:00.57 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/; Shipping date unlikely before 2007-07-23 (phones are in the states, and have cleared customs) If you ordered early, reply YES_I_DO (or CANCEL) to mail asking confirmation (note: you will not get a response to YES_I_DO) |
| 23:01.27 | Psi | by 'first batch' do we mean the first 1000? |
| 23:01.40 | ynezz | 500 |
| 23:01.52 | Psi | that should be mine then :) |
| 23:01.55 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 23:02.16 | SpeedEvil | I do wish they'd provide more news. |
| 23:02.26 | SpeedEvil | Have they or have they not kicked off production of a new batch. |
| 23:02.55 | SpeedEvil | If they did as they saw the rush of incoming tickets, it could be a week into that production process. |
| 23:02.56 | Psi | yeah, it would be good to get more news, but i bet they are just insanely busy |
| 23:03.41 | calamous | Does anyone know if openmoko supports other keyboards (such as dvorak)? |
| 23:04.07 | Qwell[] | calamous: it's got like xmodmap on it, I assume |
| 23:04.20 | calamous | Alright |
| 23:05.50 | Psi | it should support it, but whether or not someone has tried it yet, dunno |
| 23:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
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| 23:16.00 | daMaestro | 23!! |
| 23:16.02 | daMaestro | blah |
| 23:16.06 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 23:16.08 | daMaestro | someone fsked up |
| 23:16.17 | daMaestro | laaammmmeeeee |
| 23:16.21 | daMaestro | logistics-- |
| 23:24.34 | compbrain | 23? |
| 23:25.26 | SpeedEvil | Monday - next. |
| 23:25.42 | SpeedEvil | I put it then as they said CC charging should happen before the end of the week. |
| 23:26.08 | SpeedEvil | And I think if they'd have meant 'shipping before the end of the week' they may have said something. |
| 23:26.17 | SpeedEvil | s/they/Sean/ |
| 23:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-76-205-203-130.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 23:37.17 | ckuethe | *happy* |
| 23:37.26 | ckuethe | advanced kit ordered |
| 23:37.41 | ckuethe | nearly #3900 |
| 23:38.11 | cel | i´ve orderd worldwide Express Plus and if they deliver this week i should get it on monday (austria,europa) |
| 23:38.19 | cel | i hope so |
| 23:39.03 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Mokopedia]] [[Stylus_mount]] [[Steampunk]] [[Modular_phone]] [[Mokopedia]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Category:Neo1973_Phase_2_related]] [[Category:Neo1973_Phase_0_related]] [[Category:Neo1973_before_Phase_0_related]] and other changes |
| 23:39.10 | ckuethe | eh. mine gets here when it gets here, and not before then |
| 23:40.02 | cel | with #3900 it take a while i think |
| 23:41.16 | ckuethe | yep |
| 23:41.23 | ckuethe | so i picked the cheap shipping too |
| 23:41.34 | ckuethe | not really in a hurry |
| 23:41.40 | ckuethe | i have tons of other junk to do |
| 23:41.56 | ckuethe | migrating my old bugzilla installation to rt |
| 23:42.21 | ckuethe | writing a monitor system to produce graphs of just about every conceivable metric in my datacenter |
| 23:42.49 | ynezz | whats rt? |
| 23:42.51 | cel | difference in shippig was just 50$ and i did not know how long the cheapest way takes to austria ;) |
| 23:43.07 | ckuethe | maybe i should produce graphs of number of graphs per second produced, and pie charts of most popular charts |
| 23:43.13 | ckuethe | rt = request tracker |
| 23:43.35 | ckuethe | http://bestpractical.com/rt |
| 23:46.37 | schonstal | So, where would be a good place to start for developing an openmoko application (maybe an example application)? |
| 23:46.59 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: Strain guages on the chair, and "average staff weight". |
| 23:47.16 | ckuethe | peak effluent output by manager orifice |
| 23:47.54 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 23:47.54 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 06:06:03 (0.254±0.3 days) (1755;248) |
| 23:47.58 | daMaestro | lol |
| 23:48.20 | daMaestro | wont ship till monday of next week.... booooooooooo |
| 23:48.37 | ckuethe | lucky me knows perl, gd, gnuplot, and has root passwords... guess who gets tagged to write the graphing tool |
| 23:49.56 | SpeedEvil | You've got a recent gnuplot? |
| 23:50.10 | SpeedEvil | that supports coloured points? |
| 23:50.39 | SpeedEvil | spinning 6D graphs can be fun. |
| 23:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko cooleys (n=cooleys@ash.osuosl.org) |
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| 23:52.16 | ckuethe | gnuplot 4.2.0 |
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| 23:54.19 | cesarb | Urgh, another airplane accident here in Brazil |
| 23:54.27 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 23:54.49 | cesarb | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_Linhas_A3%A9reas_Flight_3054 |
| 23:56.02 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@CPE001057000aad-CM001225d73c82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:57.43 | *** part/#openmoko pitux (n=sonny@i05m-213-44-25-207.d4.club-internet.fr) |
